< 1257033698 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1257033752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, re LFS: I might, but I imagine that most of what I pick up will be stuff that doesn't matter due to my design choices (e.g. dynamic linking issues) < 1257034348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:44 why is there a status setting thingy at the top of it < 1257034348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:48 for IM clients < 1257034348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and email. < 1257034359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email has online/offline? < 1257034364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257034365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, that one < 1257034370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i thought he meant the messaging menu) < 1257034376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is linked to it < 1257034392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:24:20 ais523, argh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/447964 < 1257034392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:24:34 ais523, it seems linked to evolution, But it is in the indicator applet thingy < 1257034393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:24:42 which iirc is used for other (useful) stuff < 1257034393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The messaging menu IS useful. < 1257034401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:25:24 it's empathy it's linked to, not evolution < 1257034401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:25:29 oh, the letter icon < 1257034402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:25:36 that means new mail arrived, I think < 1257034402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or new IMs < 1257034407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone signed in recently < 1257034435 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257034440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't like that VM has evolution set up or anything < 1257034444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor any IM < 1257034448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remove it from the panel. < 1257034450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy. < 1257034455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to uninstall anything. < 1257034457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right click. < 1257034457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it used for other stuff? < 1257034460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257034462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257034470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The indicator applet is the meessaging menu. < 1257034473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*messaging < 1257034493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1257034497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A small applet to display information from various applications consistently in the panel. < 1257034498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first revision is focusing on messaging applications. The design specification for the messaging component is available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/" < 1257034505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So currently it's just for email and IM, but it won't be later. < 1257034755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the uber-jackal effect in ADOM too weak? < 1257034768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257034891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, if ever, if they will ever release the source-codes for ADOM or not. < 1257035000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can KDE3 desktops view a special desktop with all desktops combined? < 1257035002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm can (Mod+0) < 1257035019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is dwm < 1257035023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A window manager. < 1257035042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now I found it. But at first I didn't have the browser open < 1257035042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Where would one have place for it? < 1257035054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... so zzo < 1257035058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What does that mean? < 1257035064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where would one have place? < 1257035065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1257035075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, view all? at the same time? on the same monitor < 1257035081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some compiz like zoom? < 1257035090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just arranges all the windows together in dwm. < 1257035092 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look it seems is not too bad < 1257035098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be good < 1257035099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In dwm, tags are as much an organisational tool as a screen extender. < 1257035120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, still if I write, I would write my own, however. (But I might based on others window managers) < 1257035136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can name the tags too) < 1257035147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would be hard to see them all? < 1257035151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are many < 1257035152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1257035156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, they'd be quite small. < 1257035159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a useful overview. < 1257035172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so less useful than, say, Exposé? < 1257035180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not for the same purpose as Exposé. < 1257035245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257035260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The error is in thinking that a tag is a desktop, instead of a means of organising. < 1257035273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it lets you organise a windowspace bigger than your screen could handle for using an individual window. < 1257035283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's also about grouping related windows, which is why you can apply multiple tags. < 1257035300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mod+0 is like looking at the "actual workspace" that you're organising: you can see every window you have. < 1257035313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful if, for instance, you want to make two windows interact briefly. < 1257035346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, dwm is a perfectly capable floating WM too. < 1257035347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would like gentoo's init system. Quite sane. dependency based. Doesn't use classical run levels much (nothing you think of as an user). Uses instead named ones. "boot" and "default" only normally < 1257035355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes still sysvinit but you can replace it < 1257035359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with runit or others < 1257035364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less supported < 1257035368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a proper floating WM that is) < 1257035405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to bring windows to the top with the keyboard, but you can mod+drag to move, and it's sloppy focus (hover to focus) < 1257035444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The benefits are obvious — the dwm config lets you set certain programs to appear in a separate workspace and with different layouts. < 1257035452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could have a workspace for running the GIMP in floating mode. < 1257035454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, no problems. < 1257035482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Plus it means ex-evilwm junkies can cope. :-P) < 1257035498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used evilwm. tell me about it < 1257035525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a very minimalist floating manager with no window decorations apart from a one pixel border. < 1257035531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/images/cap1.jpg may ring a bell. < 1257035549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say it does < 1257035555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/ < 1257035559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie used it I believe. < 1257035581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the official screenshot? < 1257035588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it isn't popular < 1257035589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257035823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The launchd daemon is essentially a replacement for init, rc, the init.d and rc.d scripts, SystemStarter" < 1257035825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah < 1257035826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1257035829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc links to < 1257035836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_security < 1257035838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1257035849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1257035851 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257035858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1257035865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257035871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that < 1257035876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257035962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I rewrote my silly ii script in rc: < 1257035964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/rc < 1257035965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (line in `{ tail -n 0 -f out }) { < 1257035965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (echo $line | cut -f4- -d' ' | grep -i rhee\+t >/dev/null) { < 1257035965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo Ding! >in < 1257035965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1257035966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1257035973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait < 1257035975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to set ifs < 1257035987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/rc < 1257035987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifs=' < 1257035987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1257035988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (line in `{ tail -n 0 -f out }) { < 1257035988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (echo $line | cut -f4- -d' ' | grep -i rhee\+t >/dev/null) { < 1257035988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo Ding! >in < 1257035990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1257035992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1257036009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More readable, methinks, than the sh version: < 1257036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1257036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail -n 0 -f out | < 1257036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while read line; do < 1257036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if echo $line | cut -f4- -d" " | grep -i 'rhee\+t' >/dev/null; then < 1257036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo "Ding!" >in < 1257036012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fi < 1257036014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1257036023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I could simplify it further, I think. < 1257036072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some window managers use alt+drag to move window, but I think only the window manager's key should be used by the window manager. (Which key it is could be configurable in the configuration file) < 1257036085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's set in config.h with dwm. < 1257036088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mod is alt by default. < 1257036113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I think the LOGO key should be used by default, but if you don't have that key you could use PRINTSCREEN instead, for example. < 1257036152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, my simplification made it less readable (I changed: < 1257036158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (echo $line | cut -f4- -d' ' | grep -i rhee\+t >/dev/null) { < 1257036159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1257036168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (`{ cut -f4- -d' ' | grep -i rhee\+t >/dev/null } <<< $line) { < 1257036170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is worse.) < 1257036182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used evilwm, yes; I'm not sure I used it on the main desktop (might have, though), but definitely on that one low-end laptop. < 1257036190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does the "configure by twiddling the source" thing too. < 1257036261 0 :ehiird!n=ehiird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257036262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a proper config.h with dwm. < 1257036267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not like you're editing hardcoded things. < 1257036282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheet < 1257036285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheeet < 1257036287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1257036294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not too bad < 1257036303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you say that without using it? < 1257036310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1257036449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One pixel border is enough (like evilwm and dwm both has). Resizing can be done with wm's key and left button for floating windows, wm's key with right button for tiled windows, and wm's key with middle button to move. For keyboard operation, you can just use wm's key in combination with some other keys (such as arrow keys) < 1257036497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have separate buttons for tiling windows only < 1257036540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the windows do not have to designated tiled/floating, you can just use them in both ways. So, you can easily switch and stuff however you prefer < 1257036555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just if you use tiled resize, it will also resize the other windows with adjacent borders too < 1257036563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I would write it, anyways. < 1257036569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sort of a configuration section in evilwm.h too, though it's pretty small and the file contains a lot of other crap, too. Oh, and keyboard bindings are in keymap.h which is pretty editable. (Pretty strangely, though, the combination of modifiers is not configured there, but instead there's a command line flags (-mask1, -mask2, -altmask) to define those.) < 1257036574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asleep now, though. < 1257036578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In dwm, moving or resizing a window makes it floating. < 1257036595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only resizing you can do for tiling windows is to make one of the two columns bigger or smaller. < 1257036611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moving is handled merely by making something either the main window or secondary. < 1257036622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never felt the need to manually manage any tiling windows. < 1257036650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1257036692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does do mod+right click to resize a floating window, though; never thought to try that. < 1257036768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Also, middle button drags are awkward, since it's usually a clickable mouse wheel. < 1257036820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, but I never use the wheel, I only use it to click < 1257036832 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the wheel there < 1257036834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The web is unusable without the wheel. < 1257036838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, really, any long document. < 1257036841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it is accidentally pushed in one direction or the other < 1257036847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if it's a good mouse. < 1257036852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have good resistance. < 1257036859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I use the web without the wheel. I use the page-up/page-down keys to navigate through the document < 1257036878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just gives me a headache and pisses me off as I try and find where I left off in the last page. < 1257036886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I can't scroll things nicely in my line of sight without a pain. < 1257036926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah can't sleep < 1257036935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could drag the scrollbar or use the up/down arrows too if I need more precise scrolling. Another thing I sometimes do, is click and hold the scroll bar and then use either the mouse or keys to scroll, and then move the mouse away from the scroll-bar to return < 1257036937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while read line; do < 1257036937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if echo $line | cut -f4- -d" " | grep -i 'rhee\+t' >/dev/null; then < 1257036940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usless < 1257036942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless* < 1257036948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set IFS and do it all in read < 1257036952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for cut < 1257036953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this works in Windows. Not sure about Linux < 1257036960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, do feel free to rewrite that with IFS. < 1257036977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IFS and read -d of course < 1257036978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Dragging the scrollbar is the same as flicking the wheel except more of a pain < 1257036991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will tomorrow < 1257036998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Congratulations, the Unix philosophy weeps at your desire to make everything in one program < 1257037021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to avoid using PAM with recent kernels? < 1257037024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when coding python I tried to make all functions as few lines as possible. < 1257037032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PAM is not related to kernel afaik < 1257037033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, AnMaster. < 1257037037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to me. I would rather have a mouse without a wheel if I could get one < 1257037054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm just saying that you should consider that most people like their wheel before assigning things to the middle button. < 1257037056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and night, *tries to sleep again* → < 1257037057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to use the middle button as a middle button < 1257037078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you have only two buttons < 1257037088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1257037099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Clicking with the middle wheel is easy. < 1257037103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use scrollwheel as scrolling and clicking it for paste < 1257037103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But clicking and dragging is not. < 1257037104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257037110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1257037120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking and dragging is hot. < 1257037121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tilting it for scrolling sideways < 1257037122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to avoid middle-click-drag motions, not middle-clicks. < 1257037140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clicking and dragging isn't *too* hard < 1257037144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit irritating < 1257037146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can be done < 1257037148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something to consider. < 1257037185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can certainly consider it. But, if someone doesn't like the way I wrote it, they can change it themself < 1257037206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I bet you will have a config option for it :P < 1257037215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night *tries again dammit* < 1257037216 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to avoid middle-click-drag < 1257037223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'm happy that I don't need to rewrite every piece of software before using it because compromises have been made for other people. < 1257037235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thank $DEITY for that. < 1257037277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the web without the wheel. Of course, I have mouseless link-following, so it's a bit more usable... < 1257037324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write software, it is generally written for groups of people who prefer it this way, including (but not necessarily limited to) myself. And, it can be Free Software/Open Source so that other people can even modify it, too. < 1257037352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hardest part with a distro is that compiling the kernel is a must to get it going, but you'll need to do it over and over and over and over and over and over again. < 1257037352 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a large number of various different software < 1257037358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find a different software, too. < 1257037712 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257037740 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257037852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish dwm let you name tags at runtime, although it'd probably be a pain to manage < 1257038361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, at works perfectly < 1257038534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure using at is kinda overkill for a clock, though < 1257038557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could just, you know, have a sleeping process < 1257038561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually use at? < 1257038576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, at least the script is quite nice: < 1257038581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now=( $(date +'%H %M') ) < 1257038581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h=${now[0]} < 1257038581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m=${now[1]} < 1257038582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257038582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ $m = 59 ]; then < 1257038583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : h=$((h + 1)) < 1257038584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m=0 < 1257038586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else < 1257038588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m=$((m+1)) < 1257038590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi < 1257038592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257038594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at $(printf %02i%02i $h $m) <:D < 1257048085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257048124 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257048214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a way to detect vt100 apps so I could write a terminal that lets you do actually useful shit and changes mode for them. < 1257048215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1257048238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257048250 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt100 apps? < 1257048304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apps that reposition cursor, for instance every curses-using app < 1257048309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other vt100 stuff < 1257048311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour is okay though < 1257048317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't need to detect colour usage < 1257048329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apps that make the input raw < 1257048332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they get every character < 1257048333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257048373 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just output straight VGA text mode < 1257048387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what? < 1257048391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has that got to do with anything < 1257048429 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm thinking in terms of dos apps, sorry < 1257048438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't write vt100 apps < 1257048447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish they identified themselves as "hello we are going to fuck with the terminal" < 1257048452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want to have a terminal that can copy and paste across lines without copying an actual linebreaks, that can support keyboard shortcuts without mangling them horribly due to applications inside the terminal, that can delete selected text after highlighting it like everything else < 1257048454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257048476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stupid applications like vi and everything that want to shoehorn a complex UI onto a command-line system stop me doing this < 1257048487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i could detect them, i could emulate a vt100 like every other terminal and let them take over < 1257048495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when we drop back to a shell, it could become rich again < 1257048507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't identify themselves, they just go ahead and control it < 1257048550 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257048563 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about detecting vt100 escape sequences? < 1257048571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one possibility, for sure < 1257048585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a program doesn't use one at startup that'd be weird < 1257048590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'd come into the normal text view then bam < 1257048595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the other stuff is gone as it takes over the terminal < 1257048612 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it user selectable then? < 1257048627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: you could try to solve the problem i did tell about < 1257048638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: vt100 apps are pretty common you know < 1257048644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be a huge pain to have to do that < 1257048663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ perhaps so annoying to outweigh the benefits of being able to assume text < 1257048675 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, dunno, I'm comming from a world of DOS and windows so that stuff is different for me < 1257048680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, it would let me use the rc shell without bloating it with filename completion and the like nicely, like it is in plan9... < 1257048691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: i'll try and explain < 1257048694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you know edit.com? < 1257048703 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my reference for that is the VGA text mode < 1257048716 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what problem was that? < 1257048720 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah? < 1257048732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: and you know, e.g. deltree or whatever? a command that prints its status linearly and the like < 1257048737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: read logs, wasn't that long ago < 1257048745 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257048751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: and command.com itself, which is like deltree or whatever but also has user input < 1257048753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary linear code thing < 1257048779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: well, edit.com is like a curses app on linux (which use the vt100 codes to do colours, reposition the caret to output in predefined places instead of linearly, get direct access to the keypresses, yada yada yada) < 1257048780 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: prove that if you have a binary linear code of word length 7 and there are exactly 7 words of weight 3, then 1111111 belongs to the code? < 1257048788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: and deltree and command.com are like "regular" terminal apps < 1257048790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257048795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. vim and emacs without the GUI are ncurses apps < 1257048798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is irssi < 1257048806 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257048832 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then wouldn't most "rich" apps start filling the screen with colors and stuff like that right off the bat? < 1257048844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can handle colours in plain text < 1257048849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, most would indeed < 1257048853 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A binary linear code is a code that forms a vector space over {0, 1} where addition is elementwise XOR? < 1257048859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely considering it nnow < 1257048861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1257048870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should make a new window for vt100 stuff, too < 1257048874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257048875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll act differently < 1257048883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to let you terminate it etc. via the normal terminal < 1257048903 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt100 is, what, similar to VGA text mode, right? < 1257048933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean < 1257048938 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "weight" of a code is the number of 1s in it? < 1257048941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt100 was just an ancient CRT terminal you plugged into a mainframe < 1257048945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could output text to it like normal < 1257048952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also has special things to output that do things like: < 1257048955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set background/foreground colour < 1257048956 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in terms of functionality, not interface) < 1257048961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move cursor (where text is output) up one line < 1257048964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left one character < 1257048967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1257048976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop buffering text at lines before you send it to me, give me every keypress raw < 1257048978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can handle it how i want < 1257048980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of stuff < 1257048992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: yes < 1257049016 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: right < 1257049026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: thanks for making me rethink that detecting wouldn't work, btw; I'm seriously considering it now < 1257049042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: one issue, though, is: how do I know when it's stopped vt100ing? I guess I'll look at the process tree and mark them as vt100ing < 1257049053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to look at processes the shell creates < 1257049056 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the code contains everything it possibly can, it has 21 words of weight 3. I would bet that if you XOR all 7 words of weight 3, you'll always get 1111111. < 1257049060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this will actually be more involved than your typical terminal < 1257049084 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then it's a matter of proving that for any possible set of 7, for each position, an odd number of the 7 have a 1 in that position. < 1257049102 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably maintain a non vt100 and a vt100 state < 1257049137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: yah, but for most terminals, once the vt100ing program is through, they don't know < 1257049143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't handle processes, the shell does < 1257049147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the terminal just blithely follows the ouutput < 1257049168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1257049181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1257049186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257049188 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1257049195 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, once it goes out of vt100, the special characters would eventually get flushed out of the screen no? < 1257049196 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100| Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1257049199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C(7, 3)? < 1257049209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 35 < 1257049215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey quote 100 < 1257049218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by 100 < 1257049221 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35, yeah. < 1257049222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: that's true < 1257049239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: but that'd be even weirder to have it go back; I'm thinking of spawning a separate window for vt100 stuff, since it behaves differently < 1257049255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: vt100 apps mess up the scrollback (things scrolled off-screen) anyway < 1257049265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they take over the entire screen, they usually overwrite stuff before themselves < 1257049268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of it, just some < 1257049274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so putting it in another window helps that < 1257049296 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish 35/7 were a power of two. < 1257049345 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, basically they stop doing vertical scrolling and make the screen into a 2 array, no? < 1257049347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tell me if you come up with anything interesting, time to sleep < 1257049349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1257049353 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1257049375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: basically. the problem is that, e.g. if you scroll down in a vt100 app, then scroll up in your terminal, you see the top line of the current scrolling, and then the line before you started it < 1257049390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after quitting, they disappear as if they never happened < 1257049397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very weird < 1257049480 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257049624 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so it's basically text prompt up to the vt100 app, then vt100 sorta as if it was a virtual screen, except that screen disappears on quitting? < 1257049634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep... < 1257049640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, let me tell you what i mean by losing backlog < 1257049659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first I resize my terminal to 6 lines high to demonstrate < 1257049667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just hit enter until i got a tiny scrollbar < 1257049679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type in "man rc", hit enter < 1257049682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it all turns into < 1257049687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC(1) RC(1) < 1257049688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1257049688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rc - shell < 1257049688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1257049692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a blank line after RC(1) < 1257049694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before the : < 1257049695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid irc < 1257049709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can see that it's cut off some backlog; it could have cut off a command's outputt in the middle were it there < 1257049711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*output < 1257049714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I press q to quit, and < 1257049718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ man rc < 1257049723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ < 1257049725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes back < 1257049728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all very weird and awkward < 1257049735 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257049736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses apps just aren't like the command-line < 1257049741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want to segregate them to a window < 1257049743 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257049764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that way i can interpret the rest as regular text < 1257049770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making using the terminal with other apps not hellish < 1257049811 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could detect ncurses apps and give them a virtual 24 line window inside your scrolling window < 1257049828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257049840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, that still leads to an inconsistent experience, because now they are trapping your keystrokes < 1257049844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you lose the keyboard shortcuts < 1257049847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the terminal < 1257049852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copying and pasting doesn't work the same, etc < 1257049860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't highlight some text and delete it, say in vim or emacs < 1257049864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't work that way < 1257049891 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257049916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 does this awesomely < 1257049930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start a "rich" app (there is no gui/cli distinction), < 1257049934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes over the terminal until you exit < 1257049936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes back < 1257049938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clever thing is < 1257049942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every window in plan 9 is the same as a terminal window < 1257049947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same text interface, totally malleable < 1257049959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, the text window, you can just print to it < 1257049966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can replace it with two text windows < 1257049974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's made so that a terminal isn't an oddity < 1257049993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately there's still existing apps in the way in linux. :( < 1257050071 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257050103 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it would take something akin to "video modes" < 1257050143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257050253 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, outputting any vt100 character is implicitly "switch to vt100 mode" < 1257050258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#plan9's hostility is unparalleled: < 1257050258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:35] ehird: hmm < 1257050258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:35] ehird: does $"`{...} work? < 1257050259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:35] soul9: NP < 1257050259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:35] soul9: NO < 1257050262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: yep < 1257050264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just for that process < 1257050280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to scoop up the previous output, put it in a new window, and redirect the process's output there in vt100 mode < 1257050307 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257050325 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be good if you had a "return from vt100" procedure too < 1257050370 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposing the guy calls a series of apps that switch between the two kinds of apps or something < 1257050389 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally a vt100 would do some cleaning up when quitting no? < 1257050394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1257050399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most terminals, it's very simple < 1257050403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program simply stops executing < 1257050405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shell prints its prompt < 1257050407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you keep going < 1257050409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all one stream < 1257050432 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257050447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: man termcap, man terminfo. i'm pretty sure there _was_ some "start using escape sequences" sequence in at least one of them... < 1257050450 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then obviously you should put your hook into the shell < 1257050480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, you mean construct my own? < 1257050486 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the shell activate your "exit from vt100 mode" procedure when starting up < 1257050495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how curses applications determine how a terminal works... < 1257050517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1257050522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was wondering since you kept saying vt100 if you didn't know about it... < 1257050523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you sure?) < 1257050528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know about i t < 1257050540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't realise it let you tell the app to output something when it starts doing funny business < 1257050543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1257050555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure i vaguely recall it ;D < 1257050728 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any 132 column apps? < 1257050742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most progs can handle any terminal size. < 1257050753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/rc < 1257050753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257050754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn update { < 1257050754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : clock=`{date +'%b %-d, %H:%M'} < 1257050754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xsetroot -name $"clock < 1257050754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1257050756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257050758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update < 1257050760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (sleep `{echo 60-`{date +%S} | bc}) update < 1257050762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks are awesome! < 1257050820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i was thinking of ti/te in termcap < 1257050830 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah one of the escape sequences is "reset terminal to initial state" < 1257050873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I should probably make it say -11-01 instead of Nov 1 < 1257050879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I use the number more than the name < 1257050884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't tell me the full name anyway < 1257050889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-11-01 is pretty ugly though < 1257050920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that thing's running sleep 59 right now < 1257050925 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that's funny is that they hacked a 132 column text mode into the PC, obviously for vt100 compatibility, but they did it really late (like, in SVGA cards) < 1257050930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could have been a perfect 60 if i wasn't a second too late! < 1257050950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe I should add a funge factor of sleeping one extra second, just in case I get it just before the next minute starts < 1257050953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big deal though < 1257050960 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the weirdest video mode ever < 1257050967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt100 is 80x24 < 1257051025 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these docs say that it had a 132x mode, but probably that people didn't use it < 1257051044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257051072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying that it's very hard to say "start of next minute" with things like sleep < 1257051077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep `{echo 60-`{date +%S} | bc} is ugly < 1257051088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(translation: "Sleep for 60 seconds minus the seconds elapsed in the current minute".) < 1257051170 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an... interesting way of coding < 1257051182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what, the composition of simple commands? < 1257051188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's called unix. well, it was called unix in the 70s. < 1257051225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bc is the calculator, echo just prints something out, a | b runs a sending the output to b as it goes, `{...} runs ... and expands its output into the command it's in < 1257051226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc shell < 1257051232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd look like this in the more common bash: < 1257051239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep $(echo 60-$(date +%S) | bc) < 1257051243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more probable, < 1257051255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep $(( 60-$(date +%S) )) < 1257051281 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, window's shell isn't good enough for that! < 1257051308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what do you guys do, keep a (non-digital) clock on your desk? < 1257051313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdos < 1257051320 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257051359 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257051369 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, but a .bat file clock sounds like it would be hard to code < 1257051380 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if .bat is even turing complete < 1257051390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has goto, I'm pretty sure it is < 1257051395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conditionals < 1257051403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus potentially infinite storage (filesystem) < 1257051408 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257051428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: write a brainfuck interp and see < 1257051431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard < 1257051434 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok it might be using some ugly tricks < 1257051459 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as creating new .bat files and running them < 1257051464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1257051468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome; do it < 1257051583 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( echo import brainfuck, sys & echo brainfuck.run(' '.join(sys.argv[1:])) ) | python < 1257051590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur hur hur < 1257051595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hur $/hur/ < 1257051777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your invisible end-of-line spaces < 1257051798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1257051908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither irssi nor the logs contain it, maybe it is stripped by the irc server < 1257051922 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the typical length of a dram refresh cycle%? < 1257051933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1257051969 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie how much time maximum between refreshes? < 1257051975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dram is always refreshing < 1257051979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is refresh < 1257051997 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257052000 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, if by always you mean every 10ms or some similar value < 1257052029 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dram loses data if you don't regularly read and rewrite it! < 1257052041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoosh*. admittedly that word's probably obscure in english, but it exists. < 1257052063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 a small drink of whiskey or other spirits (often used in humorous imitation of Scottish speech) < 1257052092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: anyway, something like 10 minutes < 1257052098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the record for post-shutdown recovery < 1257052101 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how modern PCs refresh DRAM... afaik some older ones had an interrupt < 1257052101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more if you cool it < 1257052251 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, afaik, one reason the z80 was popular was that it handled ram refresh for you < 1257053333 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, 16m < 1257053336 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16ms < 1257053354 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from a datasheet) < 1257053364 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a totally strategic time! < 1257053403 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a connoisseur of esoteric words
< 1257053536 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol conoisseur < 1257053597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257053630 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a lol conoisseur < 1257053682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: 16 meters? that's an awfully long time! < 1257053733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all, that's very short, ask any relativist < 1257053742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257053816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....Someone forgot where his OWN building was < 1257053852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Days after he showed it to me < 1257053935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be more amusing if it wasn't almost certainly in BobsVeryOwnVirtualRealityCirca1999. < 1257054015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257054027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in AWTeen 3205.00N 1235.00E -0.01a 0 (Active Worlds) < 1257054049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW lets you save locations (I'd hate to imagine a place that didn't) < 1257054073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I need to go to sleep. Bye all < 1257054202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE: Stop fucking using sourceforge! < 1257054296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it somewhat difficult to understand how someone could use sourceforge for fucking in the first place < 1257054306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, rule 34 and all < 1257054321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even parse that way, so you fail :p < 1257054326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, rule 34 is about porn. < 1257054362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i claim it can parse that way < 1257054442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chomsky hates you. < 1257054465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chomsky hates nearly everyone, doesn't he. < 1257054474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1257054567 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 34 is about cartoon porn yeah < 1257054591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's about porn in general. < 1257054629 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about porn? < 1257054638 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the rule is just "There is porn of it. Period." < 1257054701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's very very true. < 1257054748 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very true < 1257054750 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically it's about porn in general, but what it mostly means is that it's hard not to find porn of whatever cartoon and that there are many crazy fetishes < 1257054777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain — premier mind-reader since 2009 < 1257055244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257055248 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 1: most artists have drawn some porn < 1257055283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just had a terrible thought
< 1257055283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure that's not a rule of /b/ no matter what set you use. < 1257055285 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corollary: this includes artists that do kids games and cartoons < 1257055288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: unthink it < 1257055303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SF.net porn :/ < 1257055322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, baby, gimme that... bloated download page? < 1257055508 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote SF.net porn :/ Oh yeah, baby, gimme that... bloated download page? < 1257055525 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101| SF.net porn :/ Oh yeah, baby, gimme that... bloated download page? < 1257055573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll badly integrate all your web apps into a slow-loading monstrosity, if you know what I mean ;-) < 1257055920 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257055993 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257056021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spontaneously combusts
< 1257056156 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at DRAM datasheets to figure out how to design a system < 1257056182 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257056193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what are you doing? < 1257056195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds fun < 1257056316 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to design a system with a cpu, graphics and sound hardware < 1257056325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: like, custom cpu? fpga? < 1257056333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design your own computer? fucking awesome < 1257056347 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly all that stuff running from inside a fpga yeah < 1257056360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i absolutely want to do that some day < 1257056375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: the good fpgas are so expensive though :( < 1257056381 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257056386 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good"? < 1257056389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like $500 up; the $200 "evaluation boards" are limited as far as complexity, iirc < 1257056389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1257056397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each board can only handle so much logic < 1257056402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the $200 ones don't handle much at all < 1257056407 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257056414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to ask ais523 < 1257056417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's studied this stuff < 1257056434 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not too much point to a 500$ fpga, I could get a beagle board for that price :/ < 1257056439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually doing it in hardware costs far too much < 1257056446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they know < 1257056454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: also, the tools to put VHDL or whatever onto the chip are expensive < 1257056456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how do they know what < 1257056462 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the apples < 1257056464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: like "contact us" < 1257056471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what apples < 1257056481 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then I'll probably go for one of those spartan3 evaluation boards or something < 1257056483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: (for price) < 1257056486 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie the small/limited stuff < 1257056499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: well, they might come with tools of some sort < 1257056542 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a design with cache is rather complicated, so without cache there should be some sort of upper complexity limit < 1257056559 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cache of gonads < 1257056567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how do what apples know what < 1257056583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: make it a microcode interpreter and swap the cpu microcode from registers to RAM :-D < 1257056585 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie probably go for some kind of RISC for the cpu since with only raw DRAM access there's a limit to data access rates < 1257056595 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pertussis, not infection pneumonitis < 1257056614 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ? < 1257056622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how drunk are you exactly < 1257056631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you know what microcode is right? < 1257056640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with that < 1257056643 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my father is swimming < 1257056666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: basically, modern CPUs don't implement the CPU in the actual electric pathways < 1257056675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: they have an interpreter for a proprietary microcode, like a RISC architecture < 1257056686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: and each instruction is coded in it, in super-fast, on-chip ROM < 1257056687 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's basically CPU opcodes get expanded to larger processor instruction data inside < 1257056693 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257056697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the processor executes the microcode instead of the instructions directly < 1257056710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so current CISC chips are actually RISC internally < 1257056716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can't change it and it's undocumented, so uh < 1257056718 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257056719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck doing anything with it < 1257056745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ofc, storing the microcode in RAM would be so slow and swapping it to registers is useless since there's so few of them :-) < 1257056746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke. < 1257056759 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to do a super out-of-order stack reduction based chip but that would be way too large for a fpga :D < 1257056775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: fpgas can cost up to like $5,000 < 1257056779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many limits with them really < 1257056787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low clock speed < 1257056788 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is way too much money < 1257056793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying < 1257056794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257056808 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would require cache < 1257056819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm joking man < 1257056828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so uh what was that about apples < 1257056858 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, right now I'm debating on whether to try to take advantage of fast-page/edo DRAM or go for static access cycles < 1257056888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: please make it something not like the standard risc architectures < 1257056888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1257056937 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1257056943 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're boring? :D < 1257056945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: because they're boring. < 1257056947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also crap < 1257056973 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap? < 1257056978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap. < 1257056991 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1257057072 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a glorious beard < 1257057096 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'm going through this sdram specification.... this is complicated < 1257057106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: eat it < 1257057107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is food < 1257057115 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so mister < 1257057116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: i think the fpgas abstract the ram away for you < 1257057121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523? < 1257057143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of < 1257057149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables in the HDL become RAM in the fpga < 1257057166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes the compiler is stupid and you have to specifically tell it to use dedicated RAM rather than LUT-based RAM < 1257057182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LUT is the complexity unit, right? < 1257057214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257057223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make one LUT into one bit of RAM < 1257057227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's normally really wasteful < 1257057236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so FPGAs tend to come with some pre-built RAM too < 1257057242 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but you're talking about in fpga ram < 1257057245 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is SRAM < 1257057268 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typically comes in, what, 16k? probably more or less depending of the chip but still < 1257057276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more < 1257057285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $200 boards have like 256 MiB of RAM < 1257057289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it like 23 MiB < 1257057295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it was, it was very sufficient < 1257057296 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but that's SDRAM no? < 1257057301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1257057309 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's different! < 1257057315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/23 MiB/32 MiB/ < 1257057317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: so :P < 1257057358 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on chip ram is static ram and can be addressed pretty fast... cpu caches are SRAM for instance < 1257057386 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SDRAM is DRAM and you have to sorta planify who gets a turn to read from it, etc... < 1257057407 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention variable access times depending on type of accesses < 1257058026 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, one possible manner is to make a chip that outputs 320x240 and where everything is based on 400 memory cycles per scanline < 1257058165 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from there, if you keep a lid on register space, ROM space, and excessive multipliers, it should be synthesizable < 1257058194 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that would give a rather classic, probably amiga-like design < 1257058812 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a fast-page or edo-based design, which would be more 486-y < 1257059166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amiga-like is good! do that. < 1257059180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always a fan of the tied-to-the-CRT-rate stuff < 1257059808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg guys < 1257059809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in two months < 1257059811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be MMX < 1257060473 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257060625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swattit madbrainum -----###
< 1257060628 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul[AFK] < 1257060655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMX! < 1257060681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMPH! < 1257060708 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sdram isn't bad :D < 1257060733 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it has way too many pins :( < 1257060932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257061305 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257062078 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257062128 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257062399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257063327 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257063327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just one incident: when my Symbolics came, the seller mixed up billing and shipping address and sent it to my home. Had to pick it up at the post office but they sent a customs postcard with the price on it. Well, I had to explain why I would spend "that much" on an old keyboard. After everything was settled I looked at the postcard once more and realized it only showed the shipping costs." < 1257063487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :) < 1257063660 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257063688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things to do to make the distro: * Get hardware. * Set up Arch development environment. * Go through the gigantic kernel configuration process. * Write the init. * Figure out what login to use and all that crap. * Figure out what libc to use. * See if LLVM can do a.out, if not, switch from it (unlikely) or get it to work or whatever... < 1257063689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Figure out what coreutils to use, or write one I guess; port it if it's a BSD one, etc. * Compile some stuff. * Write a package manager. * Compile a toolchain for the toolchain. * Bootstrap shortly after. * Write the rest of this list < 1257063716 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, sdram modules have 168 pins o_@ < 1257063718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point some testing would be good, and getting other people to test too... < 1257063728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys like testing, right?! Thought so. < 1257063891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I can get pikhq to test it by replacing all references to Linux with As-Of-Yet Unnamed Suckless.org Kernel.) < 1257063940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Eh, I have free time, and am at least curious to see what you come up with. < 1257063955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it worked before I even did it. < 1257063959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some mighty good plan. < 1257064013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably build a box with some medium-common-denominator hardware to get it all working... < 1257064039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using something high-end is probably a bad idea considering the state of drivers. < 1257064084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to restrain myself from omitting everything from the kernel that I don't use... < 1257064115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eh, who needs disks, anyways? That's what a ramdisk is for, right?" < 1257064175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM?! Recent Core 2 processors have 12 MiB of L2 cache, you know. < 1257064183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the cache... we did fine with L1 back in the day! < 1257064218 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i7 has what, 8mb of l3 < 1257064219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about it. The Core 2's L2 cache? It can hold 8.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333... fully formatted floppy disks. < 1257064221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1257064234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah and 4x256 KiB of L2 I believe < 1257064413 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257064417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257064428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :android's libc (bionic) has no termios < 1257064443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that doesn't really matter < 1257064624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android implements its own account management, and does not use /etc/passwd. There is no getpwent(), and getpwnam()/getpwuid() are implemented as wrappers around an Android ID service. At present, the Android ID service consists of 25 hard-coded accounts in < 1257064624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, so bionic is quite tied to android < 1257064634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really wish dietlibc wasn't fucking retardedly gpl < 1257064642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly the right thing < 1257064967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now i remember why I dumped dietlibc < 1257064968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :• The BSD people would not accept it without $LICENSE==BSD (currently: < 1257064969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL) < 1257064969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :• Then, Microsof t could steal my code to make Windoze less obviously broken < 1257064969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can’t let that happen). < 1257064979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author is a fucking loon. < 1257065000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it GPL and not LGPL or BSD? < 1257065000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don’t want to be r ipped of f. < 1257065001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit: "or anyone to use it" < 1257065054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit: "I have less regard for common practical scenarios than RMS." < 1257065103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257065117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: should I go off the deep end and write my own libc, or just use newlib! < 1257065127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that i can ask that question probably signifies I've already gone off the deep end < 1257065171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... um... < 1257065174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not newlib < 1257065178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib doesn't support linux < 1257065182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red Hat's newlib < 1257065186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't support linux. < 1257065201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, um, what's the word, uhh, stupid < 1257065211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, waitt. < 1257065214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems they added it. < 1257065215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wait < 1257065729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't use uclibc < 1257065740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's LGPL, so if I link with it I have to offer an unlinked object file < 1257065753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1257065777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib too. < 1257065779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my choice is either: < 1257065787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack up Bionic to work on non-Android and stuff... < 1257065789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1257065790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write my own < 1257065895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257065900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a crock of shit this is! < 1257065952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm < 1257065958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently most of newlib is BSD-style < 1257066112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Red Hat bought Cygnus. < 1257066117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygnus developed newlib. < 1257066121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257066128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still... < 1257066132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully newlib should work, though it seems rather stale. < 1257066149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Maybe you could port BSD libc? < 1257066150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it beats hacking up Bionic, which is rather Android-tied (e.g. no /etc/passwd or fstab support) < 1257066158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was thinking about that, and looked it up < 1257066171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/libc/i386/ < 1257066176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD THE EPIC MORASS OF ASSEMBLY CODE!!! < 1257066188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that's just some of it. < 1257066197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I should have said "Minix". < 1257066230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Tanenbaum was criminally insane... http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/andy_tanenbaum < 1257066275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, BSD libcs are quite good, but still pretty bad: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/lib/libc/stdlib/atexit.c?rev=1.8.10.1.2.1;content-type=text%2Fplain < 1257066333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see how to compile newlib. < 1257066371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a brighter note, porting BSD libc to Linux would make porting BSD utils... Trivial. < 1257066406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. What I'd have would look suspiciously like a BSD at the end, though, and they're not without their flaws. < 1257066416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that point I'd do well to save myself the effort and use their kernel too. < 1257066691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey, I forgot about that one. < 1257066708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDCLib! < 1257066725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could port PDCLib to Linux/a.out if it hasn't been already, very easily. < 1257066740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDCLib is very minimalist and it's very easy to port it (it was designed for hobbyist OSs). < 1257066761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it's inccomplete... < 1257066762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C99 < 1257066764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incomplete < 1257066867 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257067465 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.240.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257067536 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles an i686 ELF newlib because he's too lazy to set up a crosscompiler
< 1257067666 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure newlib is gcc only, I might try it with clang though < 1257067795 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pfu.co.jp/hhkeyboard/ < 1257067796 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Hacking Keyboard Red Control Key! < 1257067799 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVE US MONEY NOW < 1257067809 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next up: Red "F" key < 1257067814 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red "X" key < 1257067820 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red " key < 1257067827 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1257067831 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red power switch < 1257067836 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red USB cable! < 1257067943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red Alert key < 1257067974 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(KEY)RED < 1257067989 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257068016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1257068029 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmbklfgjksfdg < 1257068031 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gumball < 1257068372 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any opinion on how I should handle progs like dwm that have to be recompiled to config? same with the kernel too. i don't want to become source-based < 1257068383 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just make it simple to download my build environment for a package < 1257068388 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still seems like a pain < 1257068391 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't autoupdate etc < 1257068408 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257068413 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257068445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257068446 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1257068952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC, < 1257068955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No standard library, < 1257068959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static binary, if you please < 1257068964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, include newlib's includes < 1257068967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my source < 1257068970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dash of newlibc < 1257068976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -lgcc because you demand it, dammit < 1257068979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also name it test < 1257068990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot find entry simple _start, but it's just a warning < 1257068994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the tune of ./test, 1, 2, 3: < 1257068996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1257068999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1257069010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ls tells me: 163 KiB. < 1257069012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑↑↑↑ BEST POEM EVER < 1257069026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*symbol not simple < 1257069446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if it's possible to take a linux installation and boot it but tell it to use another binary somewhere else as init? < 1257066366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/face_the_nation/ < 1257066368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1974 < 1257066372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each image was then reduced interactively to a 48«48 bit (1 bit per pixel) black– and– white 'ikon. ' < 1257066388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I reading the paper that pioneered the terminology icon? < 1257066890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: There? <-- now I am < 1257066893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you want ehird? < 1257066909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste the context? < 1257066911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten < 1257066913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1257066924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you help me with this < 1257066925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and only then. < 1257066925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone here an expert on beta distribution? < 1257066925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i wish my brain worked < 1257066925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan vaguely recalls the name from statistics. that means no, btw < 1257066925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) < 1257066927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: There? < 1257066929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection) < 1257066931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol: I'm an expert on the beta distribution the same way that I'm an expert on the derivative of x^2. < 1257066939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i uh < 1257066939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1257066940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257066941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1257066970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn you. ;P Searching scrollback for highlight all in vain. < 1257067031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[08:57] ehird: does anyone know if it's possible to take a linux installation and boot it but tell it to use another binary somewhere else as init? < 1257067033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer that! < 1257067042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course < 1257067067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, known last line of rescue is to use init=/bin/busybox at the end of the kernel command line < 1257067075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257067094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what argv init gets < 1257067095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't work very well with an initrd of course < 1257067132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd expect argv[0] to be as usual, the rest none, or kernel command line maybe < 1257067142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Arch uses an initrd by default < 1257067147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can get kernel command line easily once /proc is up < 1257067154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does. But my arch box doesn't < 1257067162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'd have to futz with it. < 1257067162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble < 1257067170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dropping initrd saved half a minute of boot on my old pentium3 with arch < 1257067181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1257067184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders registering rwx.st
< 1257067208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from just over a minute down about 30 seconds. Then later on I managed to bring it down to ~14 seconds by messing around with init scripts < 1257067221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like commenting out parts that weren't relevant to me < 1257067228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and disabling automatic module loading < 1257067240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "try to load modules are required" < 1257067247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything relevant was built in anyway < 1257067251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my distro getting rid of unused init stuff will be really easy < 1257067259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you see it all every time you go to enable or disable a daemon anyway < 1257067263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the same operationn < 1257067313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? Oh and since that box is headless all it starts is basically network, sshd, ntpd and nfs server iirc < 1257067315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boots it
< 1257067324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in < 1257067329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no separate init scripts/inittab < 1257067335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw those 14 seconds were from grub. BIOS takes about 14 seconds itself < 1257067340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 15 rather < 1257067346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so commenting out stuff you don't use is just adding a # before some lines in the file you use to configure daemons < 1257067360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah. Makes updates a bit messy though < 1257067369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, just adding packages < 1257067373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's simple to solve: < 1257067383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# installpkg kde-bloatware < 1257067385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah blah blah < 1257067387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs. Judging from harddrive activity light it is fsck after n mounts time < 1257067389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits
< 1257067391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This package has an init script: < 1257067394 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-27-133.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257067407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/rc.d/kde-bloatware -- start KDE bloatware services < 1257067409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257067413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/rc.d/kde-bloatware.start -- start KDE bloatware services < 1257067415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAEMONS=(syslog-ng network rpcbind nfs-common @iptables @sshd @crond @ntpdate @ntpd @smartd @xinetd @nfs-server) < 1257067416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1257067418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/rc.d/kde-bloatware.stop -- stop KDE bloatware services < 1257067419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1257067420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1257067422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more than I remembered < 1257067424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell the users to add the lines < 1257067426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1257067431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1257067493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure will enjoy reporting e.g. bugs to software authors using this distro < 1257067509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: blah blah blah, this fails when doing etc etc, not sure what the problem is, can you help? < 1257067514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? Mostly due to a.out I assume? < 1257067516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : me: ok, what distro are you using? < 1257067520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: um, $name < 1257067528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : me: never heard of it. is it a derivative or something? < 1257067533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: well... no... < 1257067536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : me: gimme a link < 1257067542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: http://blah.org/ < 1257067542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257067554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : me: static binaries? a.out? this isn't 1990! < 1257067559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: hey! they're good because-- < 1257067563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : me: sorry, no support < 1257067565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : author: ! < 1257067571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** author has kicked me from the channel < 1257067584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I very much suspect that some binaries will break if they can't dlopen() stuff. < 1257067598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's true, but most programs let you disable that crap. < 1257067620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses.... wrote "pacman -Sy upgrade"
< 1257067628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those that really want programs that don't let you... well, I can have a dynamic linker as a package... but... stay well away if you don't absolutely have to... < 1257067631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I didn't mix up portage into it as well < 1257067636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just apt and pacman < 1257067676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what browser will you include? I somehow assume that you won't be happy with links or lynx < 1257067689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably http://surf.suckless.org/. < 1257067697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit + suckless. < 1257067710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and just a vague memory. I think a.out will confuse the hell out of boehm-gc (w3m uses that iirc) < 1257067717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read parts of libgc source
< 1257067726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried links -g incidenatlly < 1257067729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incidentally < 1257067731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's WEIRD < 1257067733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, poor you < 1257067736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does its own font rendering, I think < 1257067744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menus and dialogs and form widgets are curses-style < 1257067754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a lot better if it was elinks < 1257067764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking annoying to have gigantic piles of list-menus blocking your view < 1257067775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have installed surf into the VM, but Arch broke libwebkit. sigh. < 1257067783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm twiddling my thumbs until they fix it < 1257067792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(known issue.) < 1257067810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw that p3 box with arch has a weird issue. If the system is loaded, new ssh connections time out < 1257067816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, if we had static binaries, software authors could safely supply binaries they know will work :P < 1257067818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loaded here means CPU or network load < 1257067820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not disk load < 1257067824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on almost any system < 1257067828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no dependencies < 1257067835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, packages got updated < 1257067841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install install install. i live for nothing other than to update packages. < 1257067859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all these lib*s i'm getting here. wouldn't need them with STATIC BINARIES DID I MENTION STATIC BINARIES :P < 1257067861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know python will break badly by this? < 1257067872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fairly sure it won't. Care to justify? < 1257067879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all loadable C modules will break. < 1257067881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are *.so < 1257067887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't *that* uncommon < 1257067899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm something like 47% sure I could link them in. < 1257067918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes you could. But then you would need to rebuild python to add a new one < 1257067933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Just like the kernel. < 1257067941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an idea. < 1257067953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C modules are packages that install .as to a directory somewhere. < 1257067962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the builder script just links in them all. < 1257067966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with kernel modules. < 1257067978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you can install/uninstall modules, and just flip the buildkernel binary or whatever and it'll all work. < 1257067987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modules are implemented at the package level, effectively. < 1257068151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Zzzz" < 1257068219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257068232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it is annoying. < 1257068240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel can be fast to build, Python not so much. < 1257068251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would need some adjustments to the binary linking. But quite possible in theory yes < 1257068253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And definitely slower than downloading a binary on a fast connection. < 1257068258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it's a pain for the user... < 1257068260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and X... X loads drivers and such as *.so < 1257068272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need to patch X quite a bit < 1257068273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, pretty sure you can link those in. < 1257068308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with python it is easy to (just change the C code a bit so it looks like those modules already built into python) < 1257068317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with X I suspect it needs some more work < 1257068334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to patch it? < 1257068337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1257068372 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257068381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, python? well yes think so. So that the module is initialised the right way. Some minor adjustments only. Possibly adding to some array of modules in the main python binary (not sure about that bit) < 1257068417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can write a fun stub dynamic linker that does some sort of unholy hack using processes... < 1257068424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, an .so is a binary, and it spawns it... < 1257068431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...on the other hand that would be unholy < 1257068438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shared memory mess? < 1257068439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257068453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't *.exe and *.dll have different address spaces on windows iirc? < 1257068463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to hack stuff when you want to share things < 1257068493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1257068515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1257068522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember what I was going to ask you, AnMaster < 1257068525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257068532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it possible to compile a gentoo system using static binaries? < 1257068577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown. But since portage is in python I see a potential problem right there. < 1257068594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile static binaries != omit dynamic linker < 1257068598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== pass -static to everything < 1257068613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it still take 24h to compile everything? < 1257068628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. But you can't easily mix dynamic linking and static linking iirc < 1257068645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can. < 1257068649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on hardware. Haven't done a clean install of gentoo for ages. < 1257068650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -static binary can easily dlopen(). < 1257068656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware is... a VM. < 1257068712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it won't be as fast as installing ubuntu of course. And it will require user interaction in many parts. Unless you use that "not really newfangled any longer" GUI installer. Which I never tried. < 1257068715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how it works < 1257068737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind interaction, but if it takes 4 hours or more I'm pretty much not going to bother. < 1257068753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people complained it was laughably bad in the beginning. I assume it improved < 1257068763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how much system you want < 1257068774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full blown KDE? < 1257068789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bootable system without X? < 1257068809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small kernel (but I don't want to configure it manually), hopefully with no initrd or anything, networking, X11. < 1257068812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much it. < 1257068950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.1ghz core 2 duo, 1 gib of ram, pretty boring vm/host really < 1257069125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, manually or auto with initramfs are the options iirc < 1257069139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless genkernel nowdays can generate without initramfs < 1257069140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, I can do that. < 1257069145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how long would it take, roughly? < 1257069156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<4 hours, <10 hours, <24 hours, <48 hours? < 1257069159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was that "no X" or "with X"? < 1257069164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With X. < 1257069185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drivers supplied by VirtualBox, nothing else needed apart from vesa to bootstrap. < 1257069195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. assuming a system with dual quad core Xeon CPUs? < 1257069210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[09:49] ehird: 2.1ghz core 2 duo, 1 gib of ram, pretty boring vm/host really < 1257069220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257069225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7200 rpm disk :P < 1257069249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, could be less than 4. Definitely less than 6 at least. < 1257069265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless things got a lot more bloated since 2007 < 1257069285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big are dem livecds i wonder... < 1257069309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, classical command line stage3 install would only require minimal cd. which is around 100 MB for x86_64 < 1257069320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, a livedvd < 1257069329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw if you got for multilib x86_64 it will probably not manage in less than 4 hours < 1257069338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what exactly they have on that monstrosity over ubuntu's 700 megs < 1257069343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :livedvd, sheesh < 1257069346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, source? < 1257069350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LiveDVD (released Oct 10, 2009) < 1257069351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(up to 2.6 gigabytes depending on arch) < 1257069351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 x86 < 1257069353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/where.xml < 1257069399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, minimal install + stage3 install following manual < 1257069402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I would do < 1257069414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "LFS light" I guess < 1257069419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage3 has compiled stuff doesn't it < 1257069437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stage3 is enough base system to compile new stuff < 1257069449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, not static binaries then < 1257069457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are going for static it will likely take longer, due to having to figure out how. < 1257069472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some packages do have an useflag "static" < 1257069478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFLAGS=-static < 1257069483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chainsaw maneuver < 1257069646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. I won't be surprised if things break < 1257069648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like glibc < 1257069655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about other libcs < 1257069658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried < 1257069692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1257069693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point with all that < 1257069697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just jump straight to my distro < 1257069737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be hard < 1257069746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I have a kernel and an init it can be booted < 1257069750 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257069766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I need hardware first < 1257069780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because VMs reaaaaaaaaaaaally aren't real world < 1257069876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got an old computer they want to give to me? :P < 1257069892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not use your mac? < 1257069914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one because the cognitive dissonance of such an environment on the quite frankly pretty opposite iMac would probably break my brain < 1257069922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two because the damn EFI would be bigger than my distro!* < 1257069924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exaggeration < 1257069934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three because i don't want to deal with EFI and crap < 1257069944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four because eh < 1257069949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't swap the hardware easily < 1257069955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't test whether new hardware works or whatever < 1257069972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't swap an SSD in to test performance < 1257069972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257070028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus < 1257070035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else is going to be running this on pc hardware < 1257070041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i want to minimise my pain < 1257070126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the silent pc tinkerer in me still hasn't found release < 1257070185 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257070343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257070358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you were the guy that said "Hi! I'm Linux"? < 1257070379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you pretended you were the Mac guy < 1257070389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257070395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dmartin.org/files/Mac_linux.jpg < 1257070419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one of several variants of it < 1257070424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257070498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm kinda reluctant to call it a linux distro because when i say linux distro i get a clear picture and my head and mine isn't it... < 1257070529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would be a linux distro < 1257070530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("almost certainly cookie-cutter" and "all the general 'modern' crap") < 1257070532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1257070533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not a GNU/Linux one < 1257070537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché < 1257070542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good way of explaining it < 1257070561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is kind of the inverse of Debian/BSD in a way < 1257070566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257070600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what will it be called? < 1257070621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I'm terrible at names... < 1257070628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microdon linux? < 1257070633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1257070647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midget linux < 1257070652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257070662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monolith (ooh that's a good one) < 1257070665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very googlable though) < 1257070674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monolix.. aw, it's taken. < 1257070681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monolux is too < 1257070787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what my install procedure will be like < 1257070830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just "use the package manager to install the packages inside the empty partition" for the most part. < 1257070832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How boring. < 1257070841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(netinstall only) < 1257071012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, microlith? < 1257071023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's an acttual existing thing. < 1257071027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1257071053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microlith < 1257071081 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d906d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-bymlwoyaajdeoyte JOIN :#esoteric < 1257071090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1257071160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no point thinking about a name now < 1257071166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257071180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably call the init something lame like ehird's init anyway < 1257071182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, git is too bloated for this btw. I suggest rcs < 1257071188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the package manager might have its own name < 1257071205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh. < 1257071212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks git is not bloated. :P < 1257071222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec < 1257071262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85616 /usr/bin/rcs < 1257071267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :945520 /usr/bin/git < 1257071269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is bytes < 1257071290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot the few git-*s! < 1257071295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems like rcs consists of several binaries too < 1257071304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git-cvsserver, git-shell, you know, all these things. < 1257071306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought they were symlinks or such? < 1257071306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1257071308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many binaries. < 1257071313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that was abolished. < 1257071317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are just auxillary tool,s. < 1257071321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*auxiliary < 1257071323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tools < 1257071348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist git | wc -l < 1257071348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :690 < 1257071352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist rcs | wc -l < 1257071352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 < 1257071366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shush you. < 1257071383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, half of the git files are in /usr/share/doc anyway < 1257071391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least half < 1257071393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that pesky documentation. Just bloat! < 1257071400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly! < 1257071410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of rcs is docs too < 1257071412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use your MIND to understand it. < 1257071415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that half is much smaller half < 1257071436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist rcs | grep -v /usr/share | wc -l < 1257071437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 < 1257071440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: RE: static Gentoo. < 1257071441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist git | grep -v /usr/share | wc -l < 1257071441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :157 < 1257071449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could back in 2005; the profile for that is no longer maintained at all. < 1257071465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropped along with uclibc support. < 1257071475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bastards. < 1257071489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; I'm kinda upset about it too. < 1257071490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist rcs | grep -v /usr/share | xargs du -bh --total | tail -n 1 < 1257071490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6,4M total < 1257071493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qlist git | grep -v /usr/share | xargs du -bh --total | tail -n 1 < 1257071493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11M total < 1257071503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, git is bloated. Even excluding docs < 1257071511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and possibly other non-docs in /usr/share) < 1257071518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Git does a lot more than rcs. < 1257071523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah of course < 1257071524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have to wonder if any user or developer ever really wanted dynamic linking before some crazy guy added it. < 1257071527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wasn't the point here < 1257071529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wow, rcs is that big? < 1257071532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is that small? < 1257071539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really tiny difference considering how much better git is < 1257071573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 13 MB with the compressed docs in /usr/share < 1257071577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo uses lzma it seems < 1257071579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcs is like the worst revision control system that actually does the job of a revision control system... < 1257071589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been a recent change < 1257071590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gentoo uses whatever PORTAGE_COMPRESS is set to. < 1257071592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was bz2 before < 1257071594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being too kind to rcs, pikhq. < 1257071595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1257071602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Consider. < 1257071605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS is actually better than RCS. < 1257071608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, worse than visual sourcesafe? < 1257071623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you just have an internal macro that uses anything microsoft as a lowest common denominator? < 1257071630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may have changed it in the 10.0 profile; I dunno, I set PORTAGE_COMPRESS to lzma quite a while ago. < 1257071651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: RCS does the job. *Barely*. < 1257071661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but, you know how bad CVS is? < 1257071665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absurdly. < 1257071666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CVS was AN IMPROVEMENT on RCS. < 1257071669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about that. < 1257071686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not a macro. it is a < 1257071693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : form iirc? < 1257071704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone written in Lisp would never code in Bash and C. < 1257071707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm saying that the only things worse than RCS are adhoc shared directories with "branches" consisting of "renaming files" and crazy shit like that. < 1257071721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257071723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special form < 1257071724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it waas < 1257071730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your aa key is stuttering. < 1257071735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257071736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1257071743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or your a key actually has "aa" printed on it, which would be lulzy. < 1257071755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp foo "fooBar";cp foo "baz/foo"; # There's revision control! < 1257071777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cp" "foo" "foobar" < 1257071783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless use of quotes award! < 1257071788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my finggeerrs are ccoold. < 1257071804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shatttering finger nails I gueesss < 1257071807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I typed that in meaning to use spaces and didn't use spaces. < 1257071814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Put the damn heating on. < 1257071820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is on. < 1257071824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn it up. < 1257071865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you turn a fireplace up? < 1257071882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(j/k, both the electric heater and the fireplace are "on") < 1257071894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How cold is it indoors in Sweden?! < 1257071903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely those would be enough to warm any room. < 1257071943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, house built in 1907. Sure it has been upgraded since then. But still, not quite the same as a modern house < 1257071958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but really, those would be enough to warm a 5 C room. < 1257071964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1257071970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How warm of you. < 1257071983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I estimate it is around 17 C indoors atm < 1257071995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet people in Nordic countries are actually warmer than e.g. Brits, because they always have heating on. < 1257072000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(indoors) < 1257072024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not during middle of summer < 1257072029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1257072031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, june-august < 1257072035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your summers are probably better than ours. < 1257072037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in these parts of Sweden < 1257072044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We get, uh, rain. < 1257072047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a few days of sun. < 1257072050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe only July in north Sweden < 1257072056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we do get *some* rain too < 1257072059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brr, subarctic climatee. < 1257072061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*climate < 1257072067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but UK always get rain < 1257072068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like bipolar disorder for weather. < 1257072089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY THIS SUMMER IS PRETTY COOL < 1257072094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it is winter and my toes fell off < 1257072097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat ad infinitum < 1257072120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the sun becomes retarded < 1257072126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ima stay up here for dayz" < 1257072136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but but i dont wanna get up for like. a day" < 1257072213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally... < 1257072240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a passable multitouch surface with some patterned glass and a webcam chip. < 1257072248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite easy to detect a hand. < 1257072255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fingers, with an appropriate pattern. < 1257072285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "a day"? < 1257072290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than that in Kiruna < 1257072304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's like night and day for months in subarctic climates. < 1257072309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a few months during summer all up and some months during winter all down < 1257072311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible. < 1257072333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although... < 1257072335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quite cool to see the sun going around to the north instead of setting < 1257072339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a tourist I mean < 1257072343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't want to live there < 1257072362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The daylight parts + everyone adopts Uberman = HAHA WE ARE TOTALLY TWICE AS AWESOME AS YOU < 1257072365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been up there during summer
< 1257072380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We're just up. Almost continuously." < 1257072385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Day. Forever." < 1257072500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1257072553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why nah? < 1257072614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people sleep during the time that would have been night < 1257072630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but if everyone did adopt Uberman, it would be colossally awesome. < 1257072641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is. when the sun is standing in north < 1257072740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257072741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun thing to do: Mirror entire compilation setup for my distro, type "mk". Watch every package in the whole distro compile. < 1257072749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheeeeeeeeeeee < 1257072770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in parallel? < 1257072792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does mk support -j (or equivalent) < 1257072794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257072801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: < 1257072807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a cluster
< 1257072823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The environment variable $NPROC determines how many targets may be updated simultaneously; Some operating systems, e.g. Plan 9, set $NPROC automatically to the number of CPUs on the current machine." < 1257072823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ibm roadrunner. How many seconds will it take? < 1257072836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Blue Gene, which runs Plan 9? < 1257072846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh good idea < 1257072847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know. Less than a minute for sure. < 1257072854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more if you include KDE ;-) < 1257072868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I hope I don't outgrow having to compile every package myself... < 1257072884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I'd be able to get people to contribute server resources. < 1257072891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. some stuff can't be done in parallel. Like when you have to generate the source file for something else (think: flex, bison, ...) < 1257072941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, predition: you won't be the next ubuntu < 1257072967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1257072992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect more than, say, 100 users for a long time. < 1257072999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even that's pushing it. < 1257073005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd expect ~1 user < 1257073012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's true. < 1257073013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a few that tries it out < 1257073018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then goes elsewhere < 1257073030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be pretty committed to maintaining packages. < 1257073036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. zzo could have used it. But he will likely make his own as well instead < 1257073038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there isn't really anything like it. stali is the closest. < 1257073044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using your < 1257073052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: zzo doesn't innovate, though... he just reinvents at the same level. < 1257073057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't do anything new. < 1257073061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257073069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and adds options to it < 1257073069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no offence if he's reading this. < 1257073072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to set window title < 1257073086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a good option: "Name of this option" < 1257073092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a string, defaults to "Name of this option" < 1257073097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257073111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X] The state of this option < 1257073137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257073185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine if I posted it on the Arch Linux forums I'd get some users, even if only temporarily. (But I don't really like the crowd there.) < 1257073198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not masochistic enough to create busywork for myself like that. < 1257073210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unlike your mom < 1257073220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-huh. < 1257073221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(too good chance to miss) < 1257073248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offence meant of course < 1257073313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heh "no offence meant" after a your mom joke really makes no sense) < 1257073347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess who else really makes no sense? < 1257073348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitler. < 1257073353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No offence) < 1257073404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257073702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much stuff compiles with libc5. < 1257073737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why libc5? < 1257073753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not suggesting glibc < 1257073760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just something modern < 1257073763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last non-glibc release. I was just curious. < 1257073765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uclibc or something < 1257073784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or porting BSD libc? < 1257073796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually scratch that) < 1257073815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc is lgpl < 1257073822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1257073825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't distribute statically linked uclibc binaries, < 1257073828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without also distributing an unlinked .o < 1257073832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := not happening < 1257073836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what will you use instead of bison? < 1257073843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flex < 1257073844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yacc. < 1257073846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257073848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257073855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if some stuff depends on either they can have it,. < 1257073858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it. < 1257073869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc ick does < 1257073875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that right? < 1257073882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my only existing options are Newlib and Bionic (Android's). < 1257073899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bionic doesn't support /etc/passwd or fstab and their user stuff is hardcoded and stuff, but with hackery it would make a nice BSD-licensed minimalist libc. < 1257073901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or porting netbsd libc < 1257073906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, it's always going to be dictated by Android. < 1257073914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newlib is stale but, I think, acceptable. < 1257073917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels very meh, though. < 1257073922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't like Red Hat. < 1257073927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ick depends on a yacc-like and a lex-like < 1257073928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is one option. < 1257073933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have to be bison and flex specifically < 1257073936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd be a lot of work, though. A lot. < 1257073942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use lots of BSD-only stuff. < 1257073948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't it some infinite lookahead for '. or something like that? < 1257073956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot the details of that parsing issue
< 1257073958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And BSD libc and BSD kernel are even more tied together than BSD kernel and BSD userland. < 1257073972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like being dictated by the whims of the developers of the BSD, y'know? < 1257073981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1257073983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your own libc? < 1257073999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no good at optimisation. < 1257074009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257074021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1257074024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1257074034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, maintaining a compatible libc would be a metric fuckton of work. < 1257074039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough to build a small company around. < 1257074041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257074065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dietlibc would be so, so perfect if only its author wasn't a lunatic who GPL licenses it to stop Microsoft stealing it *sigh*. < 1257074078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what architectures will you support? < 1257074087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i686 < 1257074109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 64-bit? < 1257074109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you ask the answer is compatibility < 1257074117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that before that appeared on my screen :) < 1257074131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, reverse order here :P < 1257074138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff by one sec < 1257074142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257074147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have sub-second timestamps < 1257074147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 64-bit doesn't really have any advantages apart from registers < 1257074160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the PAE hack just like you can do in 32-bit, so no advantages for lots of memory < 1257074161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and with more than 4 GB RAM. < 1257074165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAE < 1257074166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong < 1257074170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAE is for kerne < 1257074171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel* < 1257074181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user space can't have more than 4 GB in one process < 1257074184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1257074200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty edge user case. < 1257074219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, currently, sure < 1257074238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it becomes common I'll flip some switches and make it 64-bit only < 1257074245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(processes using over 4 GiB) < 1257074270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and imagine working with IPv6 ips. dividing two of them on 32-bit needs a lot more operations than on 64-bit (no clue why you would do that though) < 1257074270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway clearly the larger filesystems and higher ram usage cause the need to use >4 GiB, 64-bit is inverse-of-self-defeating ;-) < 1257074291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 is divided into blocks < 1257074293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...literally < 1257074298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257074315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, for instance, get all addresses divisible by 39853948 < 1257074316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1257074322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: total lies < 1257074335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah total lies < 1257074357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what then did you mean by blocks. Not same as I was thinking about presumably < 1257074363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to watch a totally serious documentary that isn't outrageously absurd, except the only problem is it's filled with things that are total lies < 1257074366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply not true < 1257074400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it wasn't outrageously absurd, idiots would think it was true < 1257074405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus no one dare produce that < 1257074423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put "Note: All of the following contents are full of complete lies." at the start :P < 1257074462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one would see that, everyone would think it was the usual "you may not copy, lend, watch or touch this dvd blah blah" < 1257074473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that is their problem. < 1257074513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was an example of outrageously absurd btw) < 1257074580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think newlib is my best option for now < 1257074844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dddfs < 1257074916 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back i wrote 2/3 out in full peano set theoretic notation < 1257074925 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all {{{{}}}{}{}{}{{}}}, rhythm < 1257074941 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yesterday i got round to turning that into music < 1257074966 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so { goes up a n-tatonic tone, } goes down, a comma is a pause and so on similarly < 1257074974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257074983 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/halfsecrests5-tet.mp3 < 1257075016 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is surprisingly (except not because it's pretty richly structured) melodic < 1257075021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, peano set theoretic notation? *googles* < 1257075036 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257075036 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lebesgue.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/two-thirds-of-nothing/ < 1257075037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1257075064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, that seems to be a rather verbose notation in any case < 1257075069 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the integers are constructed as an equivalence set of ordered pairs of naturals < 1257075101 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2/3 with a dedekind cut using integers < 1257075112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i like this mp3 < 1257075118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, how long is it? < 1257075123 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, 20 minutes < 1257075128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, wow < 1257075134 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are shorter versions < 1257075136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the classical listener. < 1257075155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, usually you get around 10 minutes at most, unless it is Mahler. < 1257075166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more Gregor-esque < 1257075170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in length < 1257075174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1257075190 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/onetwentiethat200hz.mp3 is 5 minutes for example < 1257075199 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and considerably more manic, especially given it doesn't have rests < 1257075201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i'm listening to this and all three of my neurons dedicated to saying "hey is this philip glass" are firing ontinuously < 1257075206 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also not on any musical scale < 1257075207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, there is some bas sound in the bg? < 1257075210 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, it's uncanny < 1257075211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, of the first one I mean < 1257075218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*continuously < 1257075230 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, two sources of gunk because I hacked it together quickly < 1257075238 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "rests" are actually 25 hz tones < 1257075258 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clicking is because when it adds tones, it just writes them sequentially, so it's all very cuspy < 1257075269 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence you get a clicking at every note, but I think it helps < 1257075270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, why not silent rests? < 1257075275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pauses to listen to the 5m one
< 1257075277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wuick hack < 1257075279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he said < 1257075281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257075281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quick < 1257075292 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it to 1 but something horrible happened < 1257075307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-euclidean horrible? < 1257075308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/onetwentiethat200hz.mp3 isn't very good. :P < 1257075318 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see it's not even scaled < 1257075330 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just turns the frequency up or down 200 hz linearly < 1257075337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed < 1257075341 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it on a chromatic scale is also weird < 1257075342 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/onetenth12-tet.mp3 < 1257075344 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because boring < 1257075355 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds a little like The Flight of the Bumble Bee < 1257075360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lols
< 1257075378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, ghostly theme on hyper speed? < 1257075390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the last one < 1257075392 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the ghostly theme < 1257075411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, thing SNES RPG or such. Ghost wood. the theme there. < 1257075421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where SNES RPG is any generic SNES RPG < 1257075425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(almost) < 1257075427 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know it, but I see your point < 1257075442 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the philip glass thing is a good point < 1257075459 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were orchestrated properly, it would sound surprisingly good for all that it is entirely algorithmic < 1257075463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, why not use midi btw? < 1257075477 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I've not worked out how to get python to do midi yet < 1257075481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257075502 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas getting it to write sine waves to wav is a matter of stealing code from somebody's blog < 1257075520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonInMusic ? < 1257075523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first google hit < 1257075534 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i looked all that up < 1257075558 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i figured also i might as well just do bleep bloop sine waves to see if it was worth making it prettier < 1257075594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/halfsecrests5-tet.mp3 settles into a beat after a while < 1257075596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of rhythm < 1257075603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, using silence for pauses might work better. Not sure though < 1257075606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the repetition has abstracted away into a rhyythm < 1257075608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rhythm < 1257075619 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, well undoubtedly yes < 1257075631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the little pats < 1257075637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click things < 1257075639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but duller < 1257075642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't fix them :P < 1257075644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, especially since I have good enough headphones to hear those 25 Hz tones quite clearly < 1257075648 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1257075651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lowpass < 1257075666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1257075668 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i probably ought to try that < 1257075670 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1257075674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it through a lowpass filter < 1257075675 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the clicks < 1257075676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 25 Hz < 1257075684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just doing: $ mplayer http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/halfsecrests5-tet.mp3 < 1257075690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't, ffs. < 1257075692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a PITA to figure out how < 1257075696 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any way short of like, smoothing out the waveform somehow to get rid of them, nor do I want to get rid of them < 1257075699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox < 1257075710 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in the ~~real orchestration~~ there's some violins just going duhduhduhduhduh < 1257075713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: open audacity, put wav in, lowpass < 1257075720 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257075738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, why insert silence instead from the beginning? Is that harder? < 1257075745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Spectrogram-of-swept-triangular-wave.png ;; the matrix data centre! < 1257075767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1257075774 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yeah, the way I've jambed the stolen code in, it's difficult to get it to pass through to silence < 1257075790 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without adding more jambed code, by which point I shouldn't be jambing shit together like that < 1257075800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, getting this on piano or such would be awesome < 1257075816 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think it'd be better as a string quartet < 1257075839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, maybe. Seems a bit too fast for that though < 1257075908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, or playing pizzicato? < 1257075914 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! < 1257075923 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizzicto would get the clickiness, I guess < 1257075925 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cato < 1257075966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, I find it hard to believe any human could manage that for ~20 minutes though :P < 1257075972 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we'll build robots < 1257075979 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a race of atomic supermen < 1257075983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about the beat. There is a beat from the start to me < 1257075991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah I've always wanted a robotic math rock band < 1257076005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their timing would be IMPECCABLE < 1257076097 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hang on i think i see a way to get silences < 1257076129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo you'll ruin it < 1257076139 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe not < 1257076141 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see < 1257076149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add "-af sinesuppress=25" or "-af equalizer=-12:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0" to the mplayer command line. (Disclaimer: I don't know whether either one will work, can't seem to find a generic FIR filter there.) < 1257076167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the second one. What does it mean? < 1257076192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the first one doesn't < 1257076208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor the second < 1257076240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 10-band equalizer; that line of numbers is telling it to provide -12 dB of amplification at 31.25 Hz, 0 on all other bands; it should at least make any 25 Hz frequency components less loud. < 1257076293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not by much < 1257076315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ending is n ice < 1257076319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low tone < 1257076320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nice < 1257076448 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay that sounds like it worked < 1257076553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/crabs/technical-memorandum.pdf < 1257076553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome awesome awesome < 1257076635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, hm? where? < 1257076641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :url that is < 1257076642 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploading < 1257076756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn could you implement crabs on X11? < 1257076759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe < 1257076766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing's stopping windows from fucking with each other right? < 1257076799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly does crabs do? I find that scanned text quite hard to read < 1257076814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headache-inducing < 1257076814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoom in < 1257076821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible at smaller sizes < 1257076824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at bigger sizes it's fine < 1257076828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257076833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really need to read it, it's awe-inspiring < 1257076839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it gets better on the actual text < 1257076845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting "TECHNICAL MEMORANDUM", "Laws and violations" < 1257076858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the laws and violations section < 1257076868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite funny. But I want like an abstract of crabs < 1257076877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audacity's highpass filter gets rid of them reasonably well, but that's unarguably more work than just streaming through mplayer. (You really don't want to low*pass* at 25 Hz; unless you want to keep just them and discard everything else.) < 1257076885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your loss; it's absolute genius < 1257076890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summarising it would ruin it < 1257076893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257076908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is pixly when you zoom in < 1257076917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't zoom in that far then. < 1257076942 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.aber.ac.uk/rhw6/music/halfsectruerests5-tet.mp3 < 1257076948 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has true etc. < 1257076979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh*, the name wasn't about "secrets" at all. < 1257076979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, those clicks. What causes them did you say? < 1257076998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: sounds more mechanical < 1257077011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1257077021 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be because it writes half a second of sine wave at, say, A, then it goes up and immediately starts writing another sine wave a tone higher < 1257077029 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the waveform is cuspy < 1257077033 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which clicks, I guess < 1257077048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, go figure out midi :) < 1257077059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you realise how demanding that sounds < 1257077066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. < 1257077072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was half-joking < 1257077101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is that QIX? < 1257077105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that knowledge is assumed about < 1257077111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game of some sort. < 1257077119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter too much < 1257077191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is from 1984, btw < 1257077200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257077202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: It includes screenshots of circa 1984 graphical Unix environments < 1257077205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-X11, I believe < 1257077213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the 1-bit faces < 1257077269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including code with k&r decls :) < 1257077285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why was one of them *dicating code* < 1257077294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dicating? < 1257077300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-typo < 1257077319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dictating of course) < 1257077320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dictating i.e. explaining it < 1257077330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know what it means < 1257077337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering why they did it like that < 1257077341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, dictating means reciting < 1257077344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in this context it means explaining < 1257077351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because people know English better than C < 1257077351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pair programming, you know. Back in the eighties! How agile. < 1257077359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1257077366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their PRODUCTIVITY. So high. SO HIGH < 1257077398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257077428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it possible back then to draw to a private buffer and blit it to the screen or such? < 1257077444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphical environment was called Blit. < 1257077459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean, though. < 1257077470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, double buffering basically I guess. < 1257077477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why wouldn't you be able to < 1257077489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just read about "angry measles"
< 1257077496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep going! < 1257077500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just gets better. < 1257077532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just wondering why they can't look at a private bitmap. which might or might not be hidden by a window on top. In theory that would work as wlel < 1257077534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well* < 1257077549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can't access other process's memory. < 1257077574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, er. I think you misunderstood me < 1257077608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like a modern game would do. Render to a canvas. You can read it yourself. Window system takes care of handling hiding part of it when another window is on top < 1257077653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has nothing to do with any of the demos. < 1257077859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does: anything that keeps a private bitmap and blits it on screen whenever some part of it changes (and periodically-but-often) is sort-of crab-immune. (The story about crabs eating someone's painting, for example, wouldn't really work on a modern painty program which doesn't use the screen as the only copy of the bitmap-being-edited.) < 1257077876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that sort of stuff would be fast enough on a terminal, though. < 1257077877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1257077878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1257077882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too slow, not simple enough. < 1257077892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not needed, because, you know. < 1257077899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only things like crabs break it. < 1257077906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257077912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's not something that's easy to discovevr. < 1257077913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discoevr < 1257077915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discover < 1257077923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite ludicrous to do two graphic writes to do one < 1257078079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TMBR: A mind consisting of computable determinism does not perceive." < 1257078079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'm a p-zombie then < 1257078138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: 'I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts.'" Yes! Down with the experts, I say! Always being all.. experty, all over the place! < 1257078149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it mentions the lens being unaffected by being re-generated. Well, basically every modern app would be unaffected. terminal would be fixed by simply scrolling it up down a few steps < 1257078153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: >_< < 1257078258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unless you make the crab mark onto a separate mostly-transparent window, and use a bit of programming to always keep that on top of the window below. < 1257078269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's no faiar. < 1257078271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fair < 1257078302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one Windows proggie that lets you shoot your windows with a shotgun, leaving permanent marks, does something like that, I think. < 1257078303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true, and what ehird said < 1257078340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I believe that best form of government is a mix of libertarian, socialitic, free market policies." how coincidental, i believe the best colour is both black and white < 1257078393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are everybody but don't realize it." why am I reading this subreddit, it's just uninformed idiots stating their idiotic beliefs < 1257078400 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257078562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION toys with the idea of registering rwx.st
< 1257078568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rwx.st? < 1257078569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257078602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need a domain and it's short and catchy. rwx after the file permissions, st is a popular country-code-hijacked-for-generic-stuff dealie < 1257078643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it looks aesthetically pleasing — http://rwx.st/bsdutils/releases/bsdutils-12.tar.gz < 1257078649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@rwx.st < 1257078663 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And then everyone can read, write and execute you! < 1257078669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutuely! < 1257078672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Absolutely < 1257078681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, pointless X trickery: http://xdesktopwaves.sourceforge.net/ < 1257078716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, rwx.st is also pretty neutral, i.e. it's not really tied to anything because it's a meaningless jumble of letters < 1257078725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to fool myself into thinking I'll keep it forever, but eh. < 1257078781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My only complaint is that on QWERTY, rwx is a bit left-biased. < 1257078795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's quite easy to type. < 1257078870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyo < 1257078885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't magnify screenshots < 1257078888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irritating < 1257078889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write a mail server thing. < 1257078890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows it goin, kids < 1257078897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going < 1257078897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it < 1257078899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY < 1257078900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITCHING < 1257078901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAD < 1257078906 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1257078914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why write a mail server? < 1257078922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz they all suck :/ < 1257078925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cory doctorow has a new story out. :X < 1257078932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, netqmail too? < 1257078939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. I also am a bit doubtful as to how well it works on modern, compositey 3d-fluffy X stuff; the proggie seems a bit on the old side. < 1257078950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: does it include a really, really, really awkward sex scene? just kidding, of course it does < 1257078957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I thought it used composite < 1257078960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I have never actually read any cory doctorow novels) < 1257078960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked like it < 1257078969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: qmail is probably nice if you apply 500 paatches < 1257078973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*patches < 1257078979 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i dont know. its about decommissioning the first AI < 1257078980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that is what netqmail is about < 1257078984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those 500 already < 1257078985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't really know; it's just that GCC 2.7 doesn't sound so new. But maybe they've just tested with old compilers too. < 1257078993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "twiddle my bits baby" < 1257078996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1257078998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257079013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, xshape is old iir < 1257079014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1257079016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't qmail depend on daemontools crap anyway? < 1257079025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can use other ones < 1257079031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like sysvinit even < 1257079039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Last release from Sat Dec 18 2004. < 1257079044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about rc-shell-script-init :P < 1257079061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unsure. I would recommend a supervisor if possible. But not strictly needed I think < 1257079115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, um something was meant to go here but I got distracted < 1257079123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257079149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not yet slept. < 1257079166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyw- < 1257079170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it was relevant < 1257079175 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257079179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't have been "it can't be too hard" writing a mail server will be a bitch < 1257079198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if i could avoid imap, just rsync from the server to get your mail :) < 1257079212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...since imap is really bad < 1257079246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is smtp come to think of it < 1257079256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't avoid smtp < 1257079263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257079267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like talking to other mail servers < 1257079268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid it for sending your own mail, though < 1257079273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257079281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "ssh sendmail ..." < 1257079283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the mail server needs to use it to send it onwards < 1257079286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sendmail(1) != sendmail) < 1257079290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, yeah. < 1257079337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ssh is bloated. Your distro should use telnet < 1257079339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1257079349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i was just starting to write a line complaining about ssh < 1257079355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rcp < 1257079357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of scp < 1257079363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the negotiation crap in ssh is so stupid < 1257079370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr let's put every encryption algorithm EVER" < 1257079370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257079372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"into it" < 1257079376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and guarantee NONE OF THEM" < 1257079383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and then, just, like, chit-chat for hours to decide which to use" < 1257079394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WE ARE CRYPTOGRAPHERS FUCK YEAH" < 1257079412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't seem to take long to me? < 1257079413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ssh is really big so it's hard to trustt. < 1257079415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*trust < 1257079418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything is fast. < 1257079488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should concentrate on getting myself some hardware < 1257079502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them new, cheaper, cooler and more energy-efficient i7s are looking mighty purty < 1257079564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, intel though will apparently never stop ripping people off < 1257079573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.8 GHz, $289.99 < 1257079578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.93 GHz, $549.99 < 1257079583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same specs otherwise < 1257079620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean really, is there a >=1 GHz processor in the world that cannot be overclocked by .13? < 1257079796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on if the 2.8 ones are made from bad 2.93 ones < 1257079805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "they still work just fine for the lower speed" < 1257079810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i highly doubt that < 1257079821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as the core i7 is the highest-end desktop processor intel offer < 1257079823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like the 3 core cpus from 4 core cpus with one bad core < 1257079845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'm driven to Core 2 slightly, though, because I'd like ECC... < 1257079860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i7 doesn't support ECC? < 1257079865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1257079866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even in server editions? < 1257079869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257079872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not i7. < 1257079876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're Xeon "Nehalem". < 1257079881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257079885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not go for that then < 1257079895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it costs like $500 more just for the CPU. < 1257079901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good reason < 1257079934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not that bad < 1257079940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$639.99 for 2.93 GHz < 1257079949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 2.8 GHz option though, just 2.66 GHz at $269.99 < 1257080001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you probably want kernel and libc available in cpu specific versions. For other software generic would work well < 1257080011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe video player. Not sure < 1257080013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? debian doesn't < 1257080021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anyone complaining < 1257080029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, debian are not even 686 < 1257080032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're 386 < 1257080040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ubuntu does on i686 for i386 and i686 libcs iirc < 1257080051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cmov/non-cmov < 1257080059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using cmov eh < 1257080060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot when that was added exactly < 1257080064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like someone's using a pentium 4 < 1257080070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a pessimisation on recent hardware < 1257080074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you are using a pentium 4 < 1257080077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BASH* < 1257080078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BASH* < 1257080080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BASH* < 1257080084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on if the branch is predictable < 1257080085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can dead people use pentium 4s? < 1257080095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ondioline.org/mail/cmov-a-bad-idea-on-out-of-order-cpus < 1257080105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad. < 1257080123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I profiled I saw basically no difference on modern hardware. But a large speed up on a pentium 3 < 1257080135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is p3 even 686 < 1257080137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a specific sample < 1257080141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is < 1257080149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever < 1257080151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is slow on a p3 < 1257080168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really. remember than 14 second boot with arch and no initrd? < 1257080174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure. < 1257080177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p3 at 996 MHz < 1257080187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna donate that box? :P < 1257080188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol *almost* 1 GHz!) < 1257080190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no way < 1257080196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck :( < 1257080197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 20 GB PATA disk btw < 1257080204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and hm 512 MB RAM at most < 1257080206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop saying pata nobody says pata < 1257080207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people say ide < 1257080219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian does somewhat CPU-specific kernels; linux-image-2.6-{486,686,amd64} are available on the i386 platform. < 1257080227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I say pata < 1257080230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p3s actually went up to 1.4 GHz < 1257080231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does kernel < 1257080243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, amd64 on i386? < 1257080244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257080267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, if you want to run a 32-bit debian on an amd64-style CPU. < 1257080272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do that sort of thing. < 1257080290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a good reason to write my own mail server: to write my own mailing list software. Duh! < 1257080290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and libc6-{,i686,amd64} too. < 1257080292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well chroot I guess < 1257080303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can optimise for amd64 architectures without using long mode < 1257080312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forces ehird to use mailman
< 1257080316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO < 1257080318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1257080321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1257080330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hereby swear off mailing lists for ever and a day < 1257080337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forces ehird to read his font rendered in Ariel instead of Helvetica
< 1257080345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i define ariel to be an alias to helvetica < 1257080346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA < 1257080347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPOSPLOIT < 1257080347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his mail rendered* < 1257080352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, argh. < 1257080377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phoenix ~ $ uname -a < 1257080377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux phoenix 2.6.31.5-L1 #1 Sun Nov 1 12:32:00 CET 2009 i686 Pentium III (Coppermine) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux < 1257080397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core#Core_i9 < 1257080400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah 500 MB RAM < 1257080402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says free < 1257080403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six cores? next year? < 1257080406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 MiB of cache? < 1257080408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : total used free shared buffers cached < 1257080408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem: 500 31 469 0 2 16 < 1257080410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU IINTEL < 1257080415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING WITH MY MIND AND SHIT < 1257080416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's the same socket < 1257080421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE LOTS OF MONEY ANYWAY RIGHT? < 1257080428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do? < 1257080429 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257080430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1257080448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you need high end hardware? < 1257080449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have quite a bit but that's just because i never buy anything and little amounts accumulate, funny how that works < 1257080458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even get my puny 4G used: < 1257080459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : total used free shared buffers cached < 1257080459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem: 3835 2116 1719 0 139 964 < 1257080463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw your distro might be binary. but to *you* it will be source based < 1257080464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since < 1257080468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1257080473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will make the binary packages < 1257080476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: separate step < 1257080486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can install a package i compiled earlier that i'm not using < 1257080492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really it's just like maintaining a source tree < 1257080497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a horrible source tree < 1257080501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full of horrible software < 1257080508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257080543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu MHz : 996.661 < 1257080543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 256 KB < 1257080547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1257080549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pse36 mmx fxsr sse < 1257080551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so few < 1257080562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also because high end hardware is fast. and if you're careful with your system config and willing to get your hands dirty you can get it for quite cheap < 1257080591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's way cooler to have a silent supercomputer on the floor than a silent lagger < 1257080629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go arm < 1257080633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1257080635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu MHz : 600.000 < 1257080635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 1024 KB < 1257080635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 tm pbe bts est tm2 < 1257080651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, more flags < 1257080657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not so much more. < 1257080668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what cpu is it? < 1257080675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Pentium III (Coppermine) < 1257080677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the one above < 1257080700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu MHz : 0.740 < 1257080700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 0 KB < 1257080700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : < 1257080705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTEL 4004 FUCK YEAH < 1257080710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An "Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1400MHz"; it's just the speedstep-or-whatever-they-called-their-cpufreq-thing that's made it 600 MHz. < 1257080722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1257080733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my p3 doesn't support cpufreq changes < 1257080737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I win < 1257080745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. But you don't have one < 1257080752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and those spaces are all messed up < 1257080759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not aligned like what I pasted < 1257080760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Atom I have has more flags than the Athlon X2. < 1257080761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm movbe lahf_lm < 1257080766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just copied the spaces from your first line < 1257080788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um they are aligned in monspace. so it can't be same for all < 1257080790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 GiB of RAM for $249.99? why, don't mind if I do < 1257080795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't care < 1257080822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh that's quite a mouthful < 1257080831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 lahf_lm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority < 1257080835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my laptop < 1257080837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're just making those up nowadays. < 1257080841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26GHz < 1257080864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$291.98 for 12 GiB DDR3 ECC. < 1257080869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that atom lacks nx? < 1257080941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 xsave lahf_lm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority < 1257080968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a work-workstation; we're almost flag-buddies, though there's some difference somewhere, judging from the length. < 1257080972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, must be a xeon or i7? < 1257080995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9400 @ 2.66GHz", and apparently it has xsave that yours doesn't. < 1257080996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, why can't i7 processors just support ecc? < 1257080996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xsave is new < 1257081011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, said it same second < 1257081018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is xsave? < 1257081070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea. And according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors the Atom 230 I have has "XD bit (an NX bit implementation)". < 1257081078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION filters mobos by manufacturer=intel
< 1257081089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1257081096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: damn foolin' mobo vendors ain't gonna fool me no' mo'! < 1257081105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i can trust intel to have a rock solid board < 1257081111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: intel graphics < 1257081118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257081124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i don't know if you can get intel graphics on the i7 boards < 1257081144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./include/asm/cpufeature.h:#define X86_FEATURE_XSAVE (4*32+26) /* XSAVE/XRSTOR/XSETBV/XGETBV */ < 1257081154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is in /usr/src/linux-*/arch/x86 < 1257081198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lwn.net/Articles/281921/ < 1257081207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear amd: < 1257081214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why haven't you realised a good processor since the last time I checked up on you < 1257081218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at life < 1257081294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, this X2 workstation I have has an Athlon 64 X2 5600+ with a rated TDP of 89 W; the Atom box has a TDP of 4 W. That's quite a difference in performance/watt; I mean, this box is faster, but it's certainly not 89/4 times faster. < 1257081297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be cool if you could buy actual intel graphics cards < 1257081308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1257081327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think it scales linearly anyway. but even so < 1257081560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CSC guy's "future of supercomputing" presentation had one slide, where they had calculated some specs for a hypothetical one exaflops supercomputer using today's tech; it was something like half a million cores, using about 300 megawatts of power; that's 35 % of one of Finland's four nuclear reactors. Not very feasible. < 1257081688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how Wikipedia's "nuclear power plant" infobox has a "Status: Operating" line, and the "Operating" text is coloured green. It makes it look like it's hooked directly to the reactor sensors and displays real-time data. < 1257081762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257081769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw that cmov related link. Have you actually read it all? < 1257081777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ues < 1257081778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It really all boils down to: there's simply no real reason to use cmov. < 1257081778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not horrible either, so go ahead and use it if you want to, but don't < 1257081778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect your code to really magically run any faster. < 1257081778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Linus" < 1257081779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1257081781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1257081782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1257081783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pointing out that < 1257081791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my y and u keyss are swapped < 1257081799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes but it demonstrates that having cmov versions of kernels is tupid < 1257081799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1257081813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257081855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1257081858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xedit has ispell < 1257081861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and syntax highlighting < 1257081879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND AUTOINDENTATION < 1257081890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and paren matching < 1257081901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ctags support < 1257081910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that xedit < 1257081919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bloated much? < 1257081928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know which xedit i'm talking about right? < 1257081943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: control+middle button -> edit mode -> C/C++ < 1257081949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type in a simple program and see it get autoindented and highlighted < 1257081952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never even knew. < 1257082037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I hardly remember xedit < 1257082038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FirePath (a VLIW-ish -- two ops per instruction, so maybe not so V -- all-SIMD architecture used in central-office DSL stuff) has a funky SIMD-conditional-execution thing. < 1257082043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: start it and you'll remeember < 1257082045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remember < 1257082092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://everything2.com/title/FirePath has a bit of an example. < 1257082093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unable to find it. And ubuntu doesn't list a package containing it < 1257082101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... it comes with x < 1257082107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, install xedit package? < 1257082113 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257082118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MRI machine! < 1257082138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache show xedit < 1257082138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W: Unable to locate package xedit < 1257082139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1257082144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the dpkg search thing < 1257082148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apt-file < 1257082150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257082155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sophie Wilson was a guest at the Altparty event; first time I heard about FirePath. It's sadly so very unknown, except to people who do the DSL stuff.) < 1257082165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the case for the binary? < 1257082172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xedit < 1257082175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/xedit? < 1257082175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257082186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ apt-file find /usr/bin/xedit < 1257082189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1257082203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm afraid ubuntu doesn't have it (jaunty at least) < 1257082210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/bin/xedit x11-apps [not avr32] " < 1257082213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for Debian. < 1257082242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No files called "xedit" in Ubuntu-jaunty. :/ < 1257082248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queer < 1257082326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :karmic's "x11-apps" has xedit, too; that's even queererer. < 1257082344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11-apps exists, contains no xedit? < 1257082346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257082363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even have it installed < 1257082364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/x11-apps → http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/x11-apps -- the only difference is the xedit line. < 1257082381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, changelog entry about it? < 1257082389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11-apps (7.4+2) unstable; urgency=low < 1257082389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Add xedit 1.1.2, closes: #499085, #505064. < 1257082404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11-apps (7.3+4) unstable; urgency=low < 1257082404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Remove xedit from the package, it's unmaintained and broken < 1257082404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (closes: #321434). < 1257082404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Remove xedit's conffiles on upgrade. < 1257082414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1257082437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably check out those bug report numbers for more details. < 1257082438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too lazy to check those bugs out
< 1257082448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh you were half a second faster < 1257082488 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1257082513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, xedit is actually pretty good for editing C! < 1257082540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax highlighting is very complete, the colours pleasing, the automatic indentation perfect... < 1257082546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the keybindings good < 1257082571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu bug #1: "Microsoft has a majority market share". Declined for Edgy, Feisty, Gutsy, Hardy, Intrepid, Karmic; Nominated for Lucid. Sure. (Though I guess it's been that way all the time.) < 1257082603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, old < 1257082608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always feel stupid doing < 1257082610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit(...); < 1257082612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :break; < 1257082612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only just discovered it? < 1257082622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would you do that < 1257082625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably he was commenting on the nomination < 1257082627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, switch () < 1257082641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but why the break after it. It isn't required afaik < 1257082653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have fall through cases after all < 1257082677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c warnings etc. < 1257082679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so yeah you should feel stupid < 1257082694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think inconsistency is worse. < 1257082705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm gcc at least should be able to figure out exit() never returns, since it has __attribute__((noreturn)) iirc < 1257082963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things i don't like: the part where xedit just crashed onm me < 1257083011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257083018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thats a feature < 1257083048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but a bug that it is active when INTERCAL syntax highlighting isn't used) < 1257083223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257083328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1257083331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happened again < 1257083473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install debugging symbols. Run under gdb < 1257083488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1257083494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly apple's x11 server < 1257083501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257083933 0 :Telesforo!n=Telesfor@104.Red-79-154-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257084022 0 :Telesforo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257084054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Message sending failed. Check E-Mail settings." Yay, what a colossally helpful error message. < 1257084083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than "[c]ontact your system administrator." < 1257084180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it from the phone when trying to send outgoing email. I guess it's possible the operator has a different outgoing-SMTP server for us mobile users, it's just that the only one I can find from the support pages is the one on their generic "email settings" page. < 1257084442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there's some sort of blog comment saying that it's "smtp.mobiili.net" for that. Great. < 1257084500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it works any better with that. < 1257084572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this is just ridiculous < 1257084575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xedit has a lisp evaluator < 1257084750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, *this* is ridiculous: To send email, I have to go to mailbox settings and toggle the "Security" setting to "Off", because otherwise it tries to use SMTP-over-SSL, which is not supported by the operator's outgoing SMTP server. To read email, I have to go back to the settings and toggle "Security" to "On", because that's the only way to make it use IMAP-oer-SSL, which is required by the IMAP server. < 1257084792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I guess the Lisp evaluator is pretty ridiculous too. Still. < 1257085254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny; the 25 second sound clip is 2208 bytes. Format's 8 kHz narrowband AMR; since even the lowest codec in that family is 4.75 kbit/s, and that file has about 700 bits/s, I'm forced to conclude that it's just using the "store some statistics of the background noise and not the signal itself" mode for the whole file. < 1257085274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the phone wasn't the best possible device for recording the suspicious-sounding power supply noise after all. < 1257085925 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257086245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Better than "[c]ontact your system administrator." <-- why the [] around c? < 1257086258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1257086279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean [cC]? < 1257086292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english quotation style fail. < 1257086300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not a regex < 1257086366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what power supply? < 1257086414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, store statistics of signal noise? is there really a sound format with that? < 1257086422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257086432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1257086449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMR-NB -- it's called Comfort Noise Generation (CNG) there. < 1257086484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Speex has it too. < 1257086508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the VAD and DTX parts; maybe not the noise generation. < 1257086543 0 :migomipo!i=54d906d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-cfniofzefcgunwgg JOIN :#esoteric < 1257086567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Discontinuous transmission is an addition to VAD/VBR operation, that allows to stop transmitting completely when the background noise is stationary. In a file, 5 bits are used for each missing frame (corresponding to 250 bit/s)." I guess Speex doesn't store noise statistics, at that. Well, AMR does, anyway. < 1257086646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indicates that it was originally capitalized but I changed it to lower case. < 1257086694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1257088292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257088561 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think im going to go to a cafe and chill for the whole day < 1257088574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who thinks i should do this? < 1257088585 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1257088607 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides me! < 1257088806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't care
< 1257088867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257088869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bye < 1257089103 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257089641 0 :atrapado!n=adk@95.169.238.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257089825 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257090466 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257094423 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257094815 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257094862 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257095267 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257095511 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257098622 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257098799 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257099189 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257099825 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257100235 0 :Jaykul[AFK]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul < 1257102985 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257103358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :D < 1257103368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1257103375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but you weren't here hours ago when I read it < 1257103384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what the hell was it about now again? < 1257103398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kyros and bad choices < 1257103404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah yes < 1257103407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two clearly linked concepts < 1257103416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... that's given < 1257103743 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104583 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104616 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104624 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104624 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104628 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104628 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104639 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104639 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104639 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104641 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104641 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104641 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104643 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104648 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104654 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@90.130.2.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104657 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104665 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104665 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104669 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257104670 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplit?!? < 1257104673 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104675 0 :Slereah!n=butt@92.135.29.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104682 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104689 0 :cal153!n=cal@69.181.46.213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104698 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104701 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104702 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##overflow is filling up massively fast < 1257104709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a netsplit < 1257104719 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257104722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the server went mad and decided to K-line /everyone/ < 1257104727 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257104729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-syn- Your reported IP [0.0.0.15] is banned: christel; Your access to freenode has been terminated. klines@freenode.net with questions. (2009/02/19 18.45) < 1257104731 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was pretty strange. < 1257104743 0 :coppro!n=coppro@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I don't think my IP is 0.0.0.15. < 1257104830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, my IP was reported as 0.0.0.10 < 1257104842 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-Md- [GlobalNotice] sorry for the recent mass-kill issue! we are investigating what happened exactly" Heh. "Sorry that we killed you. Our bad." < 1257104849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that that IP is banned < 1257104850 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@cl-394.sto-01.se.sixxs.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257104862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am surprised that it misdetected the IP that badly < 1257104929 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257105260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257105264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1257105266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1257105268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1257105268 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also 0.0.0.15 < 1257105270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell < 1257105273 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257105276 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened < 1257105280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: freenode went mad and k-lined /everyone/ < 1257105282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including services < 1257105284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-syn- Your reported IP [0.0.0.10] is banned: christel; Your access to freenode has been terminated. klines@freenode.net with questions. (2009/02/19 18.45) < 1257105285 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:46:50] [>> $*] [GlobalNotice] sorry for the recent mass-kill issue! we are investigating what happened exactly < 1257105288 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you didn't notice < 1257105293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reconnected on ipv6 < 1257105309 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay me! I love being immune to horrible, horrible bad luck < 1257105326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly, .10 not .15 < 1257105334 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:45:52] Incidentally, I don't think my IP is 0.0.0.15. < 1257105334 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:12] oh, my IP was reported as 0.0.0.10 < 1257105336 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was .10 too < 1257105339 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, my was reported as .15 < 1257105341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly, I wasn't connected at that point I think < 1257105350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's three .10s, two .15s. < 1257105355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I never got the message < 1257105364 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory was .190 < 1257105371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, on ipv6? < 1257105395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard some on another network (chatspike) that mentioned being unaffected. They all used ipv6 < 1257105409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257105412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh 43 seconds lag < 1257105413 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257105415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this < 1257105450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was never k-lined, he thinks.
< 1257105455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels special
< 1257105497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1257105499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still joining channels it seems < 1257105563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257105589 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257105620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to join #freenode < 1257105627 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257105639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get redirected to ##overflow < 1257105647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 0.0.13.238 < 1257105653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am unable to _list_ #freenode < 1257105739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i am using ipv6 to connect to freenode < 1257105739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? < 1257105741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1257105747 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257105752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:00 LIST Server load is temporarily too heavy. Please wait a while and try again. < 1257105771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Channel #freenode modes: +tncPLfJ < 1257105776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /list command? < 1257105777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see < 1257105781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257105787 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257105795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with /mode < 1257105808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ooh, your number is very big. < 1257105809 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :« quit » {AnMaster} {n=AnMaster@90.130.2.147} Nick collision from syn. < 1257105910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't think you remember what that does. And I'm too lazy to explain < 1257105912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it won't work on freenode anyway < 1257105924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, I'm well aware < 1257105985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't work on #freenode? i've used /list many times < 1257105993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And not 0.0.0 either! < 1257106051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257106058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you mean /names or /who < 1257106060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /list < 1257106065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/list lists channels < 1257106080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i _was_ listing a channel. sheesh. < 1257106085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um < 1257106092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *list channel names* < 1257106096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what i use to see a channel topic < 1257106111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and number of users < 1257106111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can you list #gentoo or something like it? < 1257106130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm #freenode is +m now < 1257106138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08 #gentoo 756 Gentoo Linux support | Can't speak? /join #gentoo-ops | Paste over 4 lines? http://dpaste.com | KDE4? xrl.us/otdxr + #gentoo-kde | e2fsprogs block fix: xrl.us/bea7ut | X Server 1.5? Bust KB/Mouse? xrl.us/bem6c4 1.6? http://xrl.us/bfqrjt | poppler blocks? xrl.us/bephtt | Gentoo 10.0 LiveDVD: xrl.us/gentoo10years | Profiles: < 1257106144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2008.0->10.0 | irefox/ nvidia-drivers/ glibc/ nptl downgrade? sync and retry < 1257106188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1257106194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<+RichiH> -- PLEASE READ: we had a massive bug in one of our internal service bots which caused a massive, network-wide kill. that christel was mentioned is pure chance so please do not message her about it. we are working on fixing the problem. the bot has been disabled, for now -- < 1257106205 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257106256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't think i have tried to use /list without a channel argument, if that's what you mean. i'm not _that_ stupid :D < 1257106263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1257106726 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1257106968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257108825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION too wasn't disconnected
< 1257108847 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257109157 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257109200 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out who was disconnected (which also explains why I wasn't). < 1257109240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, oh? < 1257109281 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257109301 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much anybody whose local part of ident starts with 0-9, a-f or A-F. Mine starts with 'u' (the real account name would start with 'I'). < 1257109312 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257109376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it did things alphabetically and was stopped halfway through < 1257109403 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257109409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to see what that http://announce.freenode.net link was about
< 1257109409 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who stopped it! < 1257109477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's hexadecimals < 1257109486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257109492 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257109719 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some apparently think that it is not possible to have Unix login names that start with capital letter. Not true. < 1257109747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it is? < 1257109810 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257109892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :login[21013]: FAILED LOGIN (2) on '/dev/tty4' FOR 'UNKNOWN', Authentication failure login[21013]: pam_unix(login:session): session opened for user Ilari by LOGIN(uid=0) < 1257109928 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is what one gets for trying to log in as user 'ilari'. < 1257109989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, eh, well it is case sensitive < 1257109992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect < 1257109995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly possible. It just makes logging in a pain on certain old terminals. < 1257109996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257110002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which are still supported by termcap) < 1257110076 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason why it wasn't possible in some systems is compatiblity feature of terminal emulation. But Linux TTY emulator doesn't have that feature (because it doesn't need it). < 1257110196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Vivaldi-Masterpieces-Amazon-Exclusive/dp/B002POQ2UQ . Go. Buy. < 1257110278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257110380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cheap, good point < 1257110496 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha... What would Vivaldi think if he saw that? < 1257110604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the IP is also about hexadecimals; so 'ais523' => 0xa => 10 => 0.0.0.10; 'fis' => 0xf => 15 => 0.0.0.15; 'deewiant' => 0xdee => 3566 => 0.0.13.238. < 1257110607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funky buggery. < 1257110635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: Well, after taking a few years to explain the very most basics of all the technology employed, the value of a dollar, and the major changes in economic conditions from when he was alive 'til now, I'm thinkin' not much. < 1257110639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, well spotted. < 1257110658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257110679 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257110684 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was (apparently) a priest, so I doubt he cared about money < 1257110685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it was in the announcement. < 1257110690 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :died poor, too < 1257111092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257111102 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257111268 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplit? :-P < 1257111275 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster> unless things got a lot more bloated since 2007 < 1257111277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they have < 1257111379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I read the announcement only after spotting that fact; though admittedly I spotted it only after hexadecimals were mentioned. < 1257111560 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257111570 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257111577 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257111875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion from this symbol: ⇔ dejavu has sucky hinting outside the more common symbols. < 1257111881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dejavu sans mono that is < 1257111889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a blur here < 1257111904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat better on the higher DPI screen of my laptop. But not much < 1257111935 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257111941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that's pretty awful. < 1257111943 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone interested in a system design compo? < 1257111949 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s.engramstudio.com/src/sdc.txt <- tentative rules < 1257111954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you see what it is supposed to be? < 1257111960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when copying it I assume < 1257111965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1257111967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the <=> thing < 1257111973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Liberation mono is a bit better. < 1257111991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, sans-serif and monospaced? as many symbols? < 1257112003 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a version of the compo with faster fast page ram or EDO or SDRAM but that's more complicated and can wait < 1257112006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may need to switch fonts -- that is rather annoying.
< 1257112009 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes and yes. But by "a bit" I really meant "a bit", not "a lot". < 1257112021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, to or from dejavu? < 1257112033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, this is at 9 pt btw < 1257112040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm using it < 1257112056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: From Deja Vu Sans Mono. < 1257112065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you could make a patch or something < 1257112068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other Deja Vu fonts seem to have nice hinting. < 1257112068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the hinting < 1257112077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but you need mono space < 1257112078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257112081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irc < 1257112094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do /msg chanserv help (or /cs help on a properly set up client) < 1257112095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all that nice when it comes to things like <=> or => or ->... < 1257112109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I use a terminal for most things. < 1257112113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, → looks good here < 1257112121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> and => are hard to distinguish. < 1257112122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1257112125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be better < 1257112128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1257112130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the combination, not the two-character sequence) < 1257112136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1257112172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liberation mono? seems to be missing it *goes font hunting* < 1257112189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION emerges
< 1257112389 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... from the depths of the netherworld! < 1257112419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hah. No that is the gentoo command to install a package < 1257112496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb restarting client to make it see the new fonts... < 1257112527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't it see the new ones on the fly < 1257112539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just reconnected to the bouncer
< 1257112558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1257112573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that liberation is smaller at 9 pt < 1257112578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ugly < 1257112583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not sans serif < 1257112585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is serfi < 1257112588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serif* < 1257112602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liberation mono is sans serif. < 1257112613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Actually, it seems to be inconsistent-serif :P < 1257112620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, exactly < 1257112626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unusable < 1257112648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fontophiles are idiots. < 1257112656 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yes I (barely) recognized that ... but at first it looked strange ;-) < 1257112667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand the complaint about <=>, but this is just nonsense. < 1257112668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, yes I (barely) recognized that ... but at first it looked strange ;-) <-- what? < 1257112679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't have scrollback from before disconnecting
< 1257112699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Rugxulo, hah. No that is the gentoo command to install a package < 1257112711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm no fontofile. I prefer Ariel over Helvetia because the font spacing is proper in konqueror with it < 1257112717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ah that < 1257112736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm the person who is interested in proper colour handling < 1257112741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 16 bits per channel < 1257112742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1257112758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorphiles. < 1257112760 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : everything is slow on a p3 < 1257112771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some P4s are allegedly slower than some P3s !! < 1257112791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes < 1257112832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you still run a P3 box? < 1257112853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :-) < 1257112873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : some P4s are allegedly slower than some P3s !! ; It is true of all lines of Intels (at least since P1pro) that there are early models of the newer one that is slower than the latest models of the previous one. < 1257112884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I have one < 1257112893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :996 MHz < 1257112904 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : six cores? next year? < 1257112908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear it is faster than the 2 GHz P4 I used to have < 1257112909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was later this year? (guess not) < 1257112920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster at what, Gentoo or something else? < 1257112944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just because the P4 is always running so hot that it has to run slow to avoid melting :P < 1257112959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, that's probably true < 1257112975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, compiling, running stuff, generic. And the p4 ran gentoo, but the p3 runs arch < 1257112976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a P4, hasn't used it too much lately except when router got scrambled temporarily
< 1257112983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should get a P4 for the sake of warming his coffee
< 1257112994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling depends on the GCC used, etc. < 1257113001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, knowing P4s, that should more be "making his coffee"... < 1257113007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, the p4 broke in early 2006 iirc < 1257113009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or around there < 1257113021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly broke on it? just stopped working? < 1257113022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the p3 I got my hands on in mid 2007 < 1257113049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only really "bad" part about a P3 is how heavily ignored SSE1 is by programmers < 1257113058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it refused to boot. Removing CPU showed some black parts on it < 1257113061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1257113062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :charred < 1257113066 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it overclocked? < 1257113071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it wasn't < 1257113094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4 broke even classic software optimizations, so no wonder it was slow < 1257113112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and heatsink and such was cleaned regularly. < 1257113118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with compressed air < 1257113130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 2-3 months or so < 1257113143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, I estimate it is around 17 C indoors atm < 1257113152 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could maybe use another one to kill two birds with one stone ;-) < 1257113160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hah. < 1257113167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I care about environment a bit < 1257113178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I try to go by bus instead of car and so on < 1257113208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no train around here that could do the job. well there are trains, but they don't go on useful times) < 1257113210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I know, P4 isn't optimal in any form < 1257113446 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your laptop already has VMX? < 1257113459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry, brain lapse, thought it said AVX < 1257113494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.26 Ghz, does it get good battery life? < 1257113569 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it'd be cool if you could buy actual intel graphics cards < 1257113574 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you want to use latest Ubuntu :-P < 1257113604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oops, sorry, brain lapse, thought it said AVX < 1257113605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257113610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an intel core 2 duo < 1257113625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, as for battery life. around 3 hours with wlan off < 1257113635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 with wlan on at uni < 1257113639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.75 with wlan on at home < 1257113657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the storm of broadcasts from misconfigured laptops at university < 1257113664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know. mdns, upnp and so on < 1257113677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeroconf and what not < 1257113684 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : um... it comes with x < 1257113691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's not the Xedit I was thinking of < 1257113701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh you were talking about the flags I posted? < 1257113706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some hours ago < 1257113720 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ... yes, sorry, reading logs in lieu or real conversation ;-) < 1257113732 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 hours w/ what size battery? 12 cell??? < 1257113742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 6 cell iirc < 1257113750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still better than mine < 1257113760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it is more like 2 hours and 55 minutes though < 1257113765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't dare run it to 0 < 1257113783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stop at 5-10% < 1257113802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD64x2 1.7 Ghz w/ 6 cell only gets 2 hours MAX on power saver!! (e.g. both cores halved) < 1257113819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, AMD CPUs use more power < 1257113820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that they are better IMO < 1257113843 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew AMD used more power, but still ... pretty crappy to not even be able to watch a 2 hour DVD, barely < 1257113851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still gets noticeably warm, bah < 1257113864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh I never tried watching dvd on it < 1257113867 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does at least match (or surpass) my P4 in performace < 1257113878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't either, just saying, kinda inconvenient < 1257113882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I plan to replace the dvd drive in the ultrabay with an extra battery < 1257113899 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a 12-cell, probably helps more than replacing the DVD drive < 1257113907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no place in backpack for that < 1257113913 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also probably my fault for using Vista (even 7 claims better battery life) < 1257113926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I use linux. Of course. < 1257113934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I remember antiX Mepis not being too great either (shut off without warning) < 1257113935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't use anything lacking a proper shell < 1257113948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"antiX Mepis"? < 1257113950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1257113958 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some "lightweight" Mepis derivative < 1257113976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried a billion liveCDs, just never installed any < 1257113982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really *nix savvy < 1257113996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what is mepis? < 1257114000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux < 1257114000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1257114006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried mepis < 1257114010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses ubuntu on laptop
< 1257114016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because things just work. Mostly < 1257114019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://antix.mepis.org/index.php/Main_Page < 1257114026 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it lately, had a few issues I didn't like < 1257114037 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least it had DOSBox by default, which I liked < 1257114054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, where would I find software to run in it < 1257114055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and < 1257114064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be one or two clicks away in most distros < 1257114067 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in DOSBox or Mepis? < 1257114073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dosbox < 1257114084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a (lame) DOS-related website < 1257114097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, never saw the point of DOS < 1257114104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible command interpreter < 1257114115 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use 4DOS or DJGPP Bash ;-) < 1257114124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and no memory protection < 1257114128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no multi tasking < 1257114142 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory protection in DJGPP (and other DPMI stuff), etc. < 1257114145 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpp + libraries helps with a couple of these < 1257114150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell even Apple's System 7 had multi tasking. (no memory protection though) < 1257114157 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multitasking not free but exists (Win 3+, Desqview, DR-DOS 7) < 1257114158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no multi tasking < 1257114178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah. Windows indeed. then go NT and drop DOS completely < 1257114179 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use DOSEMU or DOSBox with a "real" OS in the background for multitasking < 1257114188 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run dos from win9x < 1257114197 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these days I wish I would know enough to make my own DOS-oriented distro (based on uber-lean Linux, most likely) < 1257114198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point of windows OR dos < 1257114200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1257114218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"run DOS from Win9x" ... but it ain't free and limits you in some ways < 1257114222 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no universal solution < 1257114231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up on macs. Used windows for a short while (including XP). But then went completely Linu < 1257114232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux* < 1257114235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :various distros < 1257114238 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT didn't drop DOS completely, just much weaker support < 1257114245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red hat 5.0 was the first linux distro I tried < 1257114248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty bad < 1257114253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DOS is mostly useful by merit of being a very low-level OS that's at least vaguely usable. < 1257114257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still compared to windows back then it was awesome < 1257114263 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS has "no point" if you're not used to it < 1257114269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, very very vaguely < 1257114276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like C++ or Java have no point if you don't grok them < 1257114286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I grok more C++ than I'd want to < 1257114291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my own sanity I mean < 1257114295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders at templates
< 1257114299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have come to grok C++ template programming. < 1257114302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1257114312 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I like DOS stuff but it's rare to find some use where you couldn't do it in win32 instead < 1257114324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Loadlin? < 1257114334 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1257114337 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because Win32 has had most everything from DOS ported to it (and Linux also), plus all new stuff only targets the main three (OS X, Win32, Linux) < 1257114341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Linux bootloader. < 1257114350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a DOS executable. < 1257114381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shudder < 1257114388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use grub 1 or lilo or something < 1257114394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, don't use grub 2) < 1257114394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nowhere near as crazy a hack as you'd think, too. < 1257114404 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more useful when UMSDOS worked (2.4 kernels) < 1257114417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what was the point of UMDOS < 1257114423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot what UMDOS even was
< 1257114427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or UMSDOS < 1257114428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to repartition just to try Linux < 1257114429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dual-boot Linux/Windows setups. < 1257114429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1257114436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dump some files atop your pre-existing FAT and voila < 1257114438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very useful before XP. < 1257114441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um like a disk image file? < 1257114446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1257114448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257114462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the Linux filesystem was FAT. < 1257114466 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir linux ; cd linux ; unzip old_linux.zip ; linux.bat (runs) < 1257114494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used FAT as host file system, no ext2 required < 1257114497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... with extra metadata) < 1257114510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---linux.--- (or similar, I forget) < 1257114519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was before QEMU, BOCHS, etc. became popular < 1257114527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 2.4 had ext3 iirc? < 1257114535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not early ones < 1257114537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but later on < 1257114563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers virtualbox over those
< 1257114566 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you can't run DOS or Windows on ext3, and plus usually those took up the whole drive by default < 1257114582 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like VirtualBox too, it runs very well (when it works, which is most of the time, thankfully) < 1257114593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, resize partitions? I'm pretty sure there was some tool for it < 1257114596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even back then < 1257114605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you actually wanted to resize < 1257114608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, except for plan9 < 1257114614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need qemu < 1257114624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was probably also before liveCDs became popular < 1257114659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I really fails to see the point of DOS or windows. DOS very much so < 1257114665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely pointless nowdays < 1257114690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of like esoteric programming < 1257114698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UMSDOS predates emulation at sane speed. < 1257114715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is pointless if you don't know / like it < 1257114728 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS had a point when window's gfx stuff was too slow < 1257114750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not quite. If /// was TC or not was pretty interesting < 1257114752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1257114776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, I said "nowdays" < 1257114777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But quite pointless. < 1257114798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64 I can understand people being nostalgic about < 1257114802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like DOS mostly for my familiarity with it and its small size < 1257114804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DOS‽‽‽‽ < 1257114812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why C64 but not DOS? < 1257114823 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the c64 did have a flavor yeah < 1257114823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, to begin with: SID chipset < 1257114824 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS has lots of good games, too < 1257114836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not what I'm talking about < 1257114837 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SID is overrated though < 1257114849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why SID but not PC speaker? < 1257114858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because SID actually sounded good? < 1257114859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or adlib, or Roland MT-32, or whatever < 1257114867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I can beep the pc speaker inside linux < 1257114869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC speaker sounded good too < 1257114869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want too < 1257114870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily < 1257114878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can emulate a SID easily < 1257114882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes < 1257114892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I don't have a c64. I use an emulator < 1257114896 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on PC most games that sounded good had soundtracks mixed in real time < 1257114910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, probably. What about it? < 1257114918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was adlib? < 1257114929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Roland MT-32? (sounds familiar, unlike adlib) < 1257114935 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adlib is actually complex and interesting hardware < 1257114949 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roland mt-32 sounded a lot better but nobody had that < 1257114953 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too expensive < 1257114971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, oh? how do they compare to stuff like my Soundblaster Live! 5.1? < 1257114973 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus most of the sounds are in ROM and you can't change them < 1257114974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love it's sound < 1257115000 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SB live is, like, a DSP < 1257115014 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give it something like 512 instructions to process sound < 1257115014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, indeed. And it has good bass tones < 1257115025 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the adlib has good bass < 1257115040 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adlibtracker.net/ < 1257115042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, actually I just use it for it's hardware midi and good bass compared to on board sound < 1257115051 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(somebody in here claimed to write some stuff with that, madbrain???) < 1257115056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is using a 71 MB soundfont
< 1257115061 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruxglo: yeah < 1257115079 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (surprise!) AT2 needs DOS ;-) < 1257115089 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruxglo: http://8bitcollective.com/music/mad/Oskari+goes+to+Soundblasterland/ < 1257115111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, FM synth? < 1257115114 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, AdT2 is hard to run out of dos < 1257115118 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: yeah < 1257115120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1257115125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to high quality samples < 1257115137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I care about that sort of stuff < 1257115147 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the adlib combines 2 waveforms to make a more complicated one < 1257115172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, oh algorithmic synth is inferior to samples < 1257115176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you mean < 1257115190 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adlib is an algorithmic synth yes < 1257115211 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mt-32 is also partially algorithmic, and partially (very small) samples < 1257115222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, I have a roland electric piano next to me. Should tell you I expect some decent sound :P < 1257115230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when playing < 1257115231 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mt-32 has reverb though < 1257115287 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, was that one of your songs? < 1257115292 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257115294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, you can emulate it in software on modern hardware < 1257115297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily < 1257115299 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaeh < 1257115299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good ;-) < 1257115310 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound hardware is basically dead < 1257115311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not exactly true of my sb live yet < 1257115336 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: you could probably rip the samples out of it and reverse engineer its reverb :D < 1257115342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, depends. my sb live does manage better low bass (25 Hz and below) than any on board stuff < 1257115351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I have seen < 1257115353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1257115360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have professional headphones. < 1257115366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear those tones < 1257115380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the on board via just cuts off below 50 Hz < 1257115396 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be due to stupid DAC design on onboard < 1257115406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the laptop has cuts off below 45 Hz. But below 70 Hz it is very weak < 1257115414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is intel on board < 1257115423 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha yeah they do that on laptops sometimes < 1257115430 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they put a highpass filter < 1257115434 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumbest idea ever < 1257115438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257115442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257115446 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1257115449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, and the via stuff is on desktop < 1257115450 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be battery related < 1257115477 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could get unfiltered sound with some soldiering < 1257115489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, it's less than half a year. No way < 1257115503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, btw my headphones are http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products/headphonesheadsets/headphones.html?tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BshowUID%5D=41&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BbackPID%5D=93&cHash=0fd1ee1ab1 < 1257115531 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1257115560 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a budget for that sort of expensive stuff yeah < 1257115573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily classical music doesn't suffer quite as much from that cut off as other music < 1257115578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it suffers < 1257115603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I love classical music. And also other art music from other periods. Like the romantic period < 1257115630 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you could do is use the SBlive then < 1257115641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, yep. But not when traveling with my laptop < 1257115649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course those headphones are pretty bulky < 1257115667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, only complaint I have is listed in that link: < 1257115669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Average pressure on ear acc. to IEC 60268-7 4.5 N" < 1257115686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is mechanical pressure < 1257115690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the headphones < 1257115716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly too much to be completely comfortable for long time wear < 1257115900 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah many DOS games use software synthesis instead < 1257115951 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which depends on the quality of the samples but is usually good < 1257115956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, most of the time I prefer real recorded music. High quality stuff. CDs < 1257115969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or CDs ripped to lossless < 1257116118 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, how much RAM does your laptop have? < 1257116145 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about CD audio... it sounds good but it tends to be a tad more disconnected from the game action < 1257116157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 4 GB. Why? < 1257116173 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that's what I thought I remembered < 1257116174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was 2 GB initially < 1257116180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added another 2 < 1257116192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, oh I didn't mean for game < 1257116204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, I meant for sitting back and enjoying a symphony < 1257116246 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what you use those 4 GB for ;-) < 1257116258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hm? < 1257116270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. why 2 when I can use 4? < 1257116291 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eats more battery power < 1257116313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not much. Was like a 5 minute difference < 1257116347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and I usually need no more than 2 hours in one run < 1257116370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes all laptops lasted 12 hours ...
< 1257116404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1257116434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. speaking of music for DOS, http://www.oldskool.org/pc/MONOTONE < 1257116435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1257116462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what is a tracker exactly? < 1257116483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on my laptop if I turn off the speakers, the pcspeaker doesn't beep < 1257116484 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: type of music program that originated on the amiga < 1257116491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guess it is emulated in the BIOS or such
< 1257116509 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: the amiga had 4 sample playing channels so its music software was based around that < 1257116529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, couldn't play any wave tone? < 1257116532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just samples? < 1257116533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tracker is usually used to describe .MOD editors, etc. < 1257116544 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wave and samples are the same thing < 1257116546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hah. haven't seen a *.mod in ages < 1257116560 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this isn't .MOD either, it's a custom format ;-) < 1257116561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, samples to me means samples like in a soundfont < 1257116564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for midi < 1257116575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About half of the music I listen to is *.{mod,s3m,it,xm} < 1257116589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, seen all of those except it < 1257116594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between them < 1257116596 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.it = Impulse Tracker < 1257116598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for the past two years or so it's been about all of the music I listen to < 1257116624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Different trackers' formats. < 1257116641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mod is oldest (with a few extensions), .s3m is from Scream Tracker 3 (circa 1994), .xm is from Fast Tracker (mid 90s), .it is from Impulse Tracker (late '90s) < 1257116643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257116645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProTracker, Scream Tracker 3, Impulse Tracker and FastTracker 2. < 1257116645 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: basically each one is a sucessive improvement over the previous one (mod->s3m->xm->it) < 1257116663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1257116668 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Impulse Tracker is specifically meant as a better Scream Tracker < 1257116673 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same exact interface < 1257116675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever is wrong with *.ogg and *.flac these days :P < 1257116705 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I think your problem is that you don't realize that the world existed before Core 2, 4 GB RAM, 64-bit, etc. ;-) < 1257116710 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't rip the samples out of them or snoop how the dude composed music :D < 1257116720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I certainly do. But I grew up with mac < 1257116728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can go on being nostalgic about old mac games < 1257116730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want < 1257116748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, old Macs had games? ;-) < 1257116748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, I uh don't see the point. I'm nostalgic like twice a year < 1257116753 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you keep saying, "What's the point?" as if it was always so cut and dry < 1257116753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find my old ibook < 1257116756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with dead mattery < 1257116777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes. Because these sound awful compared even to macs from the same year < 1257116785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm nostalgic at least once per day < 1257116792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, age? < 1257116793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beauty is in the eye of the beholder < 1257116799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 21. < 1257116830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, okay I do get nostalgic over Myst. Especially with the sound of the CD drive of a performa 5600 in the background (or was it 5200? I forgot...) < 1257116839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a twinkee is inferior to a real cake but still a bit tasty nevertheless < 1257116856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google define:twinkee < 1257116859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1257116863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define twinkee < 1257116863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twinkie* < 1257116867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define twinke < 1257116871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo test < 1257116874 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1257116877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1257116878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257116880 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A Twinkie is a "Golden Sponge Cake with Creamy Filling" popular in the United States and elsewhere in North America. ... \ [14]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkee \ < 1257116880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1257116884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1257116884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1257116885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1257116886 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1257116887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think it is slow < 1257116893 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ help.txt \ huh \ karma \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.658 < 1257116918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1257116926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257116929 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram < 1257116932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very slow indeed < 1257117067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also I could get faux nostalgic about old unix < 1257117083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh ever played Myst? < 1257117103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if you can emulate a pre-OS X PPC mac on linux easily
< 1257117112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an eary ppc would do < 1257117161 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I have Myst on both PC and Atari JagCD < 1257117172 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came close to beating it in 2005 but never did finish (haven't played it much since) < 1257117195 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not faux nostalgia, DOS lives (barely), just some of us find it interesting < 1257117200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kills a runaway process on codu.
< 1257117201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1257117202 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ help.txt \ huh \ karma \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.914 < 1257117204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, finished it < 1257117204 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1257117209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without walkthroughs < 1257117212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on mac < 1257117223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got stuck at that maze underground, couldn't figure out what to do < 1257117231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not afraid of cheating, just too lazy to bother I guess < 1257117249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh in the sound world? < 1257117250 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear some of the sequels are good, though, but never tried 'em < 1257117260 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in the tunnel car thingy < 1257117270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, with faux nostalgia I meant "never used those, so can't be nostalgic about them, but still is" < 1257117277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda an underwhelming game in some ways (very isolating) < 1257117281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that was in the soundworld < 1257117286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound world* < 1257117290 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably missed something obvious < 1257117297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go ahead and cheat and finish it one of these days < 1257117298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, something rather non-obvious < 1257117312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you got sounds indicating direction you should go < 1257117314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1257117328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC? PearPC? (dunno really) < 1257117346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, isn't it OS X only? < 1257117349 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to finish Gabriel Knight 1 one of these days < 1257117352 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1257117361 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but QEMU supports other arches, doesn't it?? < 1257117406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh indeed < 1257117415 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruĝulo? < 1257117419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah but not Mac as such < 1257117433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong hardware emulated iirc < 1257117434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: yes? < 1257117441 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ever tried Ardi's Executor? < 1257117447 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that was mostly System 6, I think) < 1257117447 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering if that's also your name. < 1257117449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, never heard of it < 1257117455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my nickname, yes < 1257117471 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/ctm/executor < 1257117485 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran on DOS at one point (circa 1996) using DJGPP < 1257117496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, need to run PPC binaries < 1257117497 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's been ported to Linux < 1257117500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, for those old games < 1257117512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well this is 68000 (only I think??) < 1257117518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257117520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the issue < 1257117526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I have that old ibook < 1257117532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I get nostalgic < 1257117558 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, no PPC, sorry < 1257117568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to forget all their billions of transitions < 1257117583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple? yeah < 1257117606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and PearPC seems dead < 1257117610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last news item in 2005 < 1257117674 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone has done it, just dunno who < 1257117701 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257118156 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticeably different keyboard on this laptop than P4 (harder to play Llamatron, barely) < 1257118204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Llamatron :-D < 1257118207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story short, I'm 30 (not that old), but I do remember DOS + Win 3.1 < 1257118209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That game was awesome < 1257118227 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still use old computers, hence I need a "lite" OS more than "lightweight Linux" (128 MB??? o_O) < 1257118236 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/old/ancient/ < 1257118261 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well in DOSBox :-) < 1257118266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU does some Macintosh hardware bits too. No idea how complete it is; personally I've just played around with PearPC. < 1257118403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://www.llamasoft.co.uk < 1257118422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know of the new ones < 1257118440 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean old Llamasoft is freely available there < 1257118496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so it is. < 1257118498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that one iPhone-runs-System 7-with-QEMU newspost -- http://mobile.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=21045 though the actual site seems less alive -- that might've been with the m68k emulator, who knows -- qemu site hardware target list has "G3 Beige PowerMac (PowerPC processor)". < 1257118545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Llamatron? < 1257118550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is that < 1257118556 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game < 1257118561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird clone of Robotron < 1257118569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QEMU does some Macintosh hardware bits too. No idea how complete it is; personally I've just played around with PearPC. <-- which doesn't do pre-OS X < 1257118578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : weird clone of Robotron <-- never heard of that < 1257118591 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robotron is from like 1980 or so < 1257118612 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, 1982 < 1257118613 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9347 < 1257118619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on Midway Arcade Treasures 1 < 1257118686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, there's SheepShaver; that one does pre-OS X only ("7.5.2 thru 9.0.4"), don't know how well. < 1257118696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could work < 1257118738 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point?? ;-)) < 1257118760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah. good point. Since I have that old ibook when I want this < 1257118779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, still the OS is at least better than DOS < 1257118789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is less pointless < 1257118798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so ;-) < 1257118802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS has more apps :-P < 1257118812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mac apps were better. < 1257118827 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope ;-) < 1257118831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and charm < 1257118880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SheepShaver's supposed to run pretty well on actual PowerPC systems, if you want just virtualizationary stuff; I gather the PowerPC core emulation isn't all that hot, though certainly with modern processors it might not be such a big issue. < 1257118898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llamatron <-- ugh arcade style < 1257118918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION always preferred games where you could win. Not more and more levels all the time
< 1257118994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want sound and ability to run OS 8 or OS 9 to run some old games. Mostly turn based. Though one "real" time < 1257119007 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arcade style is unavoidable when cloning an arcade game ;-) < 1257119019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, which is why you shouldn't < 1257119022 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you don't like trying to beat your high score?? < 1257119027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did have an ending, didn't it? < 1257119030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember being envious of a Mac-using friend, because he had that funky paper airplane game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_PRO) < 1257119032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I prefer RPGs < 1257119034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of text < 1257119035 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, never beat it ;-) < 1257119050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Nanosaur :D < 1257119059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh I think my mac had that < 1257119063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sucked at it < 1257119120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss those types of games. < 1257119123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, Glider 4 or something, but I don't think that has a Wikipedia article.) < 1257119147 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257119158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, screenshot? < 1257119193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/mac/glider.png < 1257119199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The games are nowadays free, it seems. < 1257119217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the objective? < 1257119251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I remember playing something like that. < 1257119272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fly the paper airplane through the house, avoiding all obstacles. (IIRC, the only controls you had were "left" and "right" to toggle the direction; heat vents made the airplane go up, in other places it just glided slowly downwards.) < 1257119293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly a ripoff of some kind, since I think it was on a PC. It /was/ a paper aeroplane. < 1257119297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things on the floor in that screenshot are heat vents, I think. < 1257119303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a Windows port of Glider 4.0. < 1257119310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://homepage.mac.com/calhoun/Downloads.html < 1257119315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you feel like checking. < 1257119331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "PRO" version probably has colors and everything.) < 1257119335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the time stamp on that thing is. < 1257119353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia article doesn't even mention a Windows version. < 1257119377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, because the Wikipedia article is for the PRO version. < 1257119383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1257119512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the eponymous glider gets electrocuted if you fly it directly in front of a electricity wall socket thing. That's very realistic; I get shocked every time I walk past a wall outlet too. < 1257119518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is a screenshot so much worse than a picture of a car when it comes to license? < 1257119522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on wikipedia I mean < 1257119611 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, useless pedantry < 1257119622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I hope not ;-) < 1257119675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lousy grounding i bet < 1257120292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008142957.htm <-- look at the google ads O_o < 1257120328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1257120366 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Biological Data Analysis" ... "Microbial Insights" ... "$89 Home DNA Test" < 1257120371 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you saw too? (doubt it) < 1257120417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I saw similar ones < 1257120433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best one I got was "miRNA array analysis" < 1257120441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit esoteric to be on google ads < 1257120453 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*microarray < 1257120514 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric? Google? nah ;-) < 1257120685 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257120889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't want to do homework :(
< 1257121266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1257121357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biology < 1257121365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and English < 1257121376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which together account for 100% of my school subjects :/ < 1257121377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :break it up into bite-sized pieces, perhaps? < 1257121384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard < 1257121385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tedious < 1257121399 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a given ;-) < 1257121402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and creative, too < 1257121406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like creative < 1257121467 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but esoteric languages are creative < 1257121495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a different way < 1257121504 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257121505 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of glad I'm taking only math classes. < 1257121506 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257121514 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the school version of creative - e.g. "stuff that isn't what you normally do" < 1257121525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: I can't wait until Uni :) < 1257121535 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to take five-ish math classes next semester, but the head of the math department came and told me I shouldn't do that. < 1257121543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biology isn't creative unless you engineer new lifeforms < 1257121562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, you'd probably burn out with 5+ < 1257121593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _still_ waiting for oklopol's great burnout this year < 1257121619 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I burned out this semester with a single non-math class. :-P < 1257121689 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually a double non-math class. < 1257121719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend half my day working at a biotech firm, it's awesome :) < 1257121825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, done the noncreative part of part 1 < 1257121834 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so what are you currenly doing for education? < 1257121842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High school < 1257121847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last year < 1257121861 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you United States? < 1257121865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1257121867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada < 1257121882 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said "uni", kinda a giveaway ;-) < 1257121899 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How does the education system go there? < 1257121905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 years < 1257121915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, thought it was 13 < 1257121916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and kindergarten, but that doesn't count < 1257121945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No province has had 13 for several years < 1257121954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ;-) < 1257121968 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except Quebec has the weird CEGEP thing < 1257121982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shakes fist
< 1257121988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quebec has 11 years + 2 years CEGEP < 1257122006 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of that is high school? < 1257122015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 years I think < 1257122019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 3 here < 1257122047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, Quebec just has secondary schools, which are 5 years < 1257122061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no distinction between junior high/middle school and high school < 1257122091 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kind of an expecting an answer along the lines of "one year of kindergarten, eight years of primary school, four years of secondary school (high school), then college/university". < 1257122100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fine < 1257122118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one year kindergarten, 6 years elementary, 3 years junior high, 3 years high school in Alberta < 1257122123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two years preschool optional < 1257122129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before kindergarten) < 1257122223 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So pretty much like in the US but with one year of high school removed and added to elementary. < 1257122238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so, not 100% sure < 1257122247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in the U.S. in some places, 9th is in middle < 1257122249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given that I don't know your system) < 1257122271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that I hope I get accepted to UW < 1257122279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Waterloo) < 1257122329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257122355 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess the two systems are actually consistent, then. < 1257122392 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257122426 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UW? Is that in ontario? < 1257122465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1257122477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best math school in the country, and high up there worldwide < 1257122579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only problem is, my transcript doesn't look as good as it should because of stupid options I was forced to take :( < 1257122604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcripts are dishonest anyways (well, mine is) < 1257122643 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to often get the feeling that the school I'm at... kinda sucks. < 1257122655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What school? < 1257122661 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grand Valley State University. < 1257122667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it :/ < 1257122679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I haven't heard of most US schools except the big ones < 1257122696 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is kind of big. < 1257122701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of it either, doesn't mean it's bad < 1257122717 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The enrollment is 23,000. < 1257122720 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that feeling that one's school sucks is fairly common ;-) < 1257122730 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1257122796 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I used to think is that the Internet could teach me in minutes what school teaches in weeks. < 1257122863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows this isn't tru
< 1257122865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*true < 1257122875 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it seems that while that's more or less true for certain types of declarative knowledge, for procedural knowledge, it's a different story. < 1257122888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1257122915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet school isn't exactly a "bargain", either < 1257122926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :( < 1257122934 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, though, I feel like my greatest advances in procedural knowledge have come about online. < 1257122977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that the internet, while it has most of the knowledge you may deign to acquire, it generally sucks at explaining it < 1257122982 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had two "what the hell am I doing" moments online, and none in school. < 1257122992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're left to figure out which order to learn things on your own < 1257123007 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257123013 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "hmm, well, I suppose that if you kind of visualize it like this, you can kind of see that--what the hell am I doing? There's a formula for this"! < 1257123023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257123065 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno.. i think there isn't too much good music theory on the net < 1257123073 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One was when I was trying to figure out a parameter that would make two functions tangent. I took the arctangent of the derivative. < 1257123077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: I said "most", not all < 1257123079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #1 issue with school that helps give that feeling is a lot of knowledge that should be procedural (e.g. math) is treated like it isn't. < 1257123090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at low levels < 1257123096 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other was when solving the Diophantine equation x^2 - y^2 = 1817; I didn't realize that the left side could be factored. < 1257123103 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :school = rote memorization and busywork, that's all < 1257123131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: see, that's the problem. When it /isn't/ that, it's exciting to learn < 1257123141 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music theory = only good in as much as you are willing to discard it < 1257123163 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: ah, but many jobs are rote memorization and busy work < 1257123175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. have you ever seen a teacher show the derivation of the quadratic formula? < 1257123190 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a teacher show the derivation of the quadratic formula. < 1257123205 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was perplexed by the fact that the other students called the derivation "freaky". < 1257123211 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I love being creative and all, but now I have to get someone to pay for it and it sounds hard < 1257123220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: lol < 1257123226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they got shown how it works < 1257123229 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: dunno what to think about music theory... < 1257123234 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaky that when you do this, you get the same answer as when people did it hundreds of years ago? What the *hell* did you expect? < 1257123241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to remember things you understand < 1257123246 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charlie Parker: "Learn as much as you can, then forget all that s**t" < 1257123255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is THE problem with math education in North America < 1257123284 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they don't have time to let you understand, only time to make you memorize stuff and do lots of busywork < 1257123291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong < 1257123297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta cram in so much curriculum < 1257123306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could teach things far quicker if they showed you how to understand < 1257123307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must give so many tests, etc. < 1257123314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have plenty of time. < 1257123318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then they suck too bad ;-) < 1257123321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A full 12 years. < 1257123326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they waste it < 1257123331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257123339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a systemic problem < 1257123340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think Windows 7 really needs 16 GB of HD space?? nope, but they waste it < 1257123342 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its not the smart mathematicians who teach¸ < 1257123343 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing ;-)) < 1257123353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it's unreasonable to get a basic understanding of mathematics in that time. < 1257123365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another great example is fractions < 1257123366 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones who teach are the ones who know how to deal with kids < 1257123387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, people appear to think that mathematics is merely calculation. So... < 1257123392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ... Ah, no. < 1257123405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the ones who teach are whoever they can get < 1257123416 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: ah, yeah < 1257123417 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257123418 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need lots of experience either < 1257123426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A symptom of the flawed education < 1257123428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones who teach are the ones who know how not to send people to the guillotine. < 1257123434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Absolutely. < 1257123434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 4th grade teacher's parents were younger than mine (at the time!) < 1257123472 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilariously ironic < 1257123477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me at least < 1257123494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclosure: my own mother is a math teacher) < 1257123505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I ever learned jack from her) < 1257123518 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not a math whiz
< 1257123550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yet, you program. < 1257123557 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I learned some math (mostly having to do with programming!)... I never figured out how to do integrals though < 1257123561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think the guillotine was outlawed in 1982 or so in France, so... ;-) < 1257123566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... *is mathematics*. < 1257123569 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I remembered the number 1817... < 1257123582 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18, 17, 16, 15 ... < 1257123620 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still better than the gas chamber < 1257123642 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had to choose a method of execution for myself, I'm sure I would choose nitrogen asphyxiation. < 1257123646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1812 was the year of the War of 1812! < 1257123657 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine how any method of execution could be more humane. < 1257123669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural causes? ;-) < 1257123707 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying in your sleep? < 1257123717 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess execution by natural causes is a pretty humane way to do it. :-) < 1257123744 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about nitrogen asphyxiation is it works like this: < 1257123750 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You put on a mask. You get dizzy. You die. < 1257123762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION votes execution by bomb -- sitting right next to the one who gave out the death sentence.
< 1257123809 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execution by suicide-brought-on-by-remorse-brought-on-by-murder. < 1257123897 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death by chocolate ;-) < 1257124041 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what, never heard of that dish?) < 1257124062 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_Chocolate < 1257124317 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.240.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257124324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally, every time Psystar turns on any of the Psystar computers running Mac OS X, which it does before shipping each computer, Psystar necessarily makes a separate modified copy of Mac OS X in Random Access Memory, or RAM. This is the third unlawful copy." —Apple < 1257124328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I'm a pirate. < 1257124387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... yeah sure < 1257124397 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but counting like that is a little bit of a stretch < 1257124416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I was quoting it and calling myself a pirate because I thought it was sane and reasonable. < 1257124420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hears that latest Ubuntu runs on Intel Macs
< 1257124426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't mocking it or anything, nosiree, thanks for the apology. < 1257124433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has run on intel macs since about 3 seconds after they came out < 1257124435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just agreeing, it's a bit isnane < 1257124439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more like a few monthhts < 1257124439 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1257124441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*months < 1257124442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1257124444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has windows < 1257124451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows doesn't count < 1257124451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, windows took a bit longer i think < 1257124452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1257124458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: without boot camp. < 1257124464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot camp just partitions and gives you a driver CD < 1257124482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an EFI upgrade (like BIOS) that let you boot BIOS things from it, you see < 1257124484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when boot camp came out < 1257124486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before that < 1257124490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just hacked up their own shit < 1257124492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257124493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could run windows on it < 1257124500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux happened earlier because there is a linux bootloader for efi < 1257124501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elilo < 1257124506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses it now though < 1257124539 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest Ubuntu has issues with Intel gfx, I hear < 1257124568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a different note) < 1257124582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're changing everything around. after this intel graphics should be good < 1257124583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in X11) < 1257124587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Xorg < 1257124597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu by itself does very little apart from ship unstable things that barely work < 1257124610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based upon Debian "testing", from what I've read < 1257124628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sid. < 1257124633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you've been able to install rEFIt (EFI bootloader selector thingy, just point-and-click in OS X to install), pop in an ubuntu CD in an intel mac and install it for years now < 1257124648 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never hear anybody doing that, though < 1257124663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons of people do it. I've done it several times and used Ubuntu for a few weeks recently. < 1257124678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328 < 1257124685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole forum of Mac Ubuntu users. < 1257124690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active. < 1257124710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC too?? < 1257124771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please join the irc release party in ...", heh < 1257124785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC is a "community-supported port" < 1257124789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: "barely works" < 1257124865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be using this machine "sometime soon" anyway; hopefully I'll forget all the crap I needed to get it working. < 1257124866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation: "soon to be obsoleted, even by us!" < 1257124886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been community-supported (== we won't support it) since 2006, iirc. < 1257124900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The population of Mac users that use Ubuntu is small enough; PPC Ubuntu? < 1257124909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that about Macs, they brag how great they are then drop them like stones once they are *barely* obsolete < 1257124925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC was obsolete before 2005 < 1257124930 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate everything < 1257124944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G5 was fast, sure... but they still sucked. Especially the heat output. < 1257124952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4 anyone? ;-) < 1257124956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine Apple were trying to jump the PPC ship since before 2004. < 1257124963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: in fact, the first Intel machines sent to developers— < 1257124967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were pentium 4 Mac Pros < 1257124976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Apple never sold anything before Core 1, right? < 1257124983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopee < 1257124985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nope < 1257124989 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though they'd been testing since 2000) < 1257124999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to go ahead and guess that negotiating with intel is hard < 1257125019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel made a specific variant of the cpu just for Apple < 1257125030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, Apple is 100% Intel-only, so I'm not too surprised < 1257125035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they? < 1257125039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257125040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hte macbook air < 1257125041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1257125046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a stock CPU nowadays < 1257125059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, dropping ppc support from snow leopard saved ~10 GiB and means they can do a bunch of intel optimisations, which is cool. ppc users aree used to everyything being slow and crufty anyway :D < 1257125064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are *everything *fucking keyboard < 1257125085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the idea that a machine still runs perfectly but is obsoleted ... ugh < 1257125153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you must be in favour of abolishing capitalism in favour of massexcessism, where the more time you waste and neglect things most people actually use, the more money you get. < 1257125174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PPCs don't run perfectly, btw. < 1257125186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing does, but it doesn't mean it's useless < 1257125241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try to explain proper allocation of resources and practicality and all those sane things but I think I've tried that too many times already. < 1257125356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: presumably you'll complain that my static-only linux distro sucks because i'll compile it for i686 only, when all the software could work on i386... < 1257125407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux these days won't run well (if at all) on less than a 686 anyways < 1257125449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honestly, most people don't have older than a 686 anyways < 1257125455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fedora is 586+ since 11) < 1257125461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, and most people don't have older than an Intel Mac... < 1257125470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Dad does < 1257125474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who buys a Mac expecting a loooooong product life on the latest stuff is deluding themselves anyway. < 1257125479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah, and my $person owns a <686 too < 1257125489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise that people use linux on embedded devices, btw? < 1257125492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have an original P1 < 1257125495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are ... rather less powerful than a 686. < 1257125510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying they don't exist, but especially since nobody seems to care, then it's heavily moot < 1257125534 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257125540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:24] Rugxulo: just the idea that a machine still runs perfectly but is obsoleted ... ugh < 1257125545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1257125550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure pentium 1s ran pretty "perfectly" if you stayed minimal < 1257125555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're being pretty contradictory here < 1257125557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Linux?? < 1257125562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not from my experience < 1257125568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's linux's fault < 1257125571 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do more in DOS than Linux < 1257125573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPU ran perfectly, which is the issue at hand < 1257125575 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257125576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, linux should support it < 1257125583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by your argument < 1257125584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux == elitism < 1257125591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257125598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the single-handed dumbest thing you've ever said < 1257125606 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typed < 1257125650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only get laughed away trying to do things like that < 1257125672 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't help < 1257125723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, probably because you were saying dumb shit and not listening to them; two, i've never had that experience, ever; three, you do realise as a rebuttal to my statement that according to you, the pentium 1 should be supported by linux, this is a complete non-sequitur? < 1257125750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium 1 is (barely) supported < 1257125754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, four, if ubuntu (that my mother uses!) is elitist, you're crazy < 1257125763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most 586s don't support over a certain amount of RAM (e.g. 64 MB) < 1257125804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in reality, much less is installed, and Linux doesn't work very well with low amounts < 1257125814 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you like mad swapping) < 1257125841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you've ever tried to use linux on a low-end machine. it can handle low RAM just fine. < 1257125851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you were trying to install ubuntu with gnome or something. < 1257125884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't handle it well, that's for sure < 1257125896 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without recompiling everything from scratch, rolling your own, etc. < 1257125920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about the very minimal "runs but does nothing" install either < 1257125998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, debian runs on everything. < 1257126005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian+busybox runs on everything and a machine. < 1257126048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Contiki runs on everything :-) < 1257126073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from x86-64 < 1257126098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 is a mode, not a chip < 1257126109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect < 1257126113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 is an architecture in itself < 1257126115 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it still runs in legacy 32-bit mode < 1257126121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the same < 1257126127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfs (spec) < 1257126137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any AMD64 chips that won't run 32-bit or 16-bit? no, so it's moot < 1257126150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not listening to what i'm saying. < 1257126159 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't hear you, this is text :-P < 1257126174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, please point out we're typing into keyboards again, it's hilarious < 1257126215 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thiis froom thee guuy whoo caan't stoop tallking aboout hiis keeyboard < 1257126227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sucks and i need to buy a better one < 1257126233 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, no seriously, I know Debian can run on low end, but it won't be fun, that's for sure < 1257126244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the days are long gone where you can comfortably run Linux in less than 128 MB of RAM < 1257126247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme that p1 and i'll get linux on it < 1257126262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do what exactly? 32 MB just isn't enough to do anything < 1257126272 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even DSL (or TinyCore) needs 32 MB minimum < 1257126279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are wroooooong < 1257126283 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that rules out ever compiling anything < 1257126291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, since when < 1257126299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you go to console only, and even then modern GCC is a hog < 1257126300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you can't run gcc 4... < 1257126308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, you have no idea about this < 1257126318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even GCC 3.4.6 would probably be slow (as 3.4.4 with DJGPP isn't really fast) < 1257126342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel for instance compiles with gcc 2. < 1257126367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to *only* compile with GCC 2, but that changed when people finally got tired of that annoyance (although GCC 2 is lightning fast in comparison) < 1257126383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'm going to go out and get a Linux system that should run in 32MB of RAM. < 1257126407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BasicLinux can run in very low amounts, but it's useless < 1257126429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as in a computer? < 1257126444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/082/8234/8234f3.png < 1257126445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have said computer any more, sadly. < 1257126446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basiclinux is useless? < 1257126457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, you mean a distro or whatever < 1257126460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257126465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial to do, really. < 1257126481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems Rugxulo's definition of useless is runs smoothly on a p1 < 1257126487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an amusingly circular definition. < 1257126543 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"runs" what, exactly? 'cause kernel + Busybox isn't much functionality, IMHO < 1257126593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like basiclinux runs X11 or anything < 1257126594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooope < 1257126599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That + troff is a nice typesetting system. < 1257126610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troff is not a nice typesetting system pikhq. < 1257126611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nice except that it's outclassed by TeX. :P < 1257126625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm mostly referring to the original "official" use of UNIX, there. < 1257126633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still unreadable < 1257126655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troff would be 10x better it you could do \{foo} to mean \n.foo\n < 1257126673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering it's competition was not very far removed from the original printing presses, though... < 1257126755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rewrites a manpage with \{...} out of curiosity
< 1257126774 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\textsc{unix} < 1257126841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, too lazy! < 1257127401 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, dumb question, but why a.out? < 1257127409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ELF is overkill. < 1257127418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he means why the filename < 1257127423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1257127424 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I meant for your distro < 1257127427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1257127440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ELF was invented to make dynamic linking suck less (and, well, for some debugging stuff). < 1257127446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really COFF did that too, ELF was just going furtherr. < 1257127447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*further < 1257127453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a.out is simpler and I don't do dynamic linking... < 1257127458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP still uses COFF (as does NT, more or less) < 1257127479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT uses something closely related to COFF. < 1257127484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, COFF is even more obscure than a.out for Linux, and has the same disadvantages as ELF. < 1257127491 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their own weird variant, oddly different < 1257127500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows uses PE, which is a derivative of COFF. < 1257127513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they use in 9x, I wonder? < 1257127522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft migrated to the PE format with the introduction of the Windows NT 3.1 operating system. All later versions of Windows, including Windows 95/98/ME, support the file structure." < 1257127525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3 then < 1257127528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still PE in Win9x < 1257127542 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they mean Win32s < 1257127546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NE, abbreviation for New Executable, is a 16-bit[1] executable file format that was introduced in Windows 3.x [2], and was also used at a later[dubious – discuss] time in OS/2 and 16-bit Windows. While it was "new" at the time of invention, it is now rare and obsolete, though its usage can still be found by a few select programs.[3] It is backwards compatible with the older DOS MZ format.[1] < 1257127553 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember ever seeing PE in Win3x, only NE < 1257127567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone add NE support to Linux! < 1257127572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PE has an NE/MZ header. < 1257127582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Em nemz nemz nemz nemz < 1257127587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: With the new ability to have arbitrary executable formats, not hard at all. < 1257127588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Executable nomming. < 1257127595 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unz unz unz unz unz unz < 1257127600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a userspace NE loader, and register it with the kernel. < 1257127620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocatable_Object_Module_Format < 1257127621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.obj files! < 1257127629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same trick can be done to add PE support to Linux. (with Win32 support happening all magic-like) < 1257127650 0 :Rugxulo`!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257127660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux+PE+Wine = Oh god kill me now < 1257127691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It consists just of making the kernel call out to Wine when it sees a PE header. < 1257127710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of making an appropriately formatted file in /proc, IIRC. < 1257127715 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, too many file formats < 1257127718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x( < 1257127734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly a *great* idea, but nowhere near as crazy as you'd think. < 1257127751 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE is way more overkill than DOSEMU < 1257127768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE does a lot more than DOSEMU. < 1257127772 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257127782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It implements a complex ABI, rather than just being a vm86 handler. < 1257127798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and/or a simple 8086 emulator) < 1257127800 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU on x86-64 emulates all 16-bit instructions < 1257127805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gimme some cash to buy a Topre board :( < 1257127829 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257127838 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Rugxulo < 1257127875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Money! To me! In return gratitude. It's an unbeatable deal. < 1257127894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reminded of Bedazzled
< 1257127911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feed my infinite need to buy a $250 keyboard ;_; < 1257127932 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it run Linux? ^_^ < 1257127945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, but it does have a bunch of switches on the back to remap stuff. < 1257127949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIP switches! < 1257127960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the controller might be able to run uclinux < 1257127961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1257127995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look very fancy at all, really... http://static.benippon.net/magento/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/E/L/ELEC-PD-KB400WN.jpg < 1257128002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Linux's support for arbitrary executable formats could be used to implement some compatibility layers (akin to, say, FreeBSD's Linux support) < 1257128015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is freebsd's linux support still good these days? < 1257128031 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be, last I heard 8.0 would have 2.6 support < 1257128051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone run gnome on top of it :-D < 1257128052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They're upgrading it from 2.4.2 to 2.6 support, syscall-wise. < 1257128056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And X11! < 1257128064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it seems to be rather good. < 1257128114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just get a filco with cherry switches to tide me over, they're more like $100 :-P < 1257128127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an uber-cheap TVS Gold or Scorpius M10 for like $50 < 1257128136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those only haves blues though. < 1257128224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably switch to colemamk sometime. < 1257128244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*colemak < 1257128384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't < 1257128426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why not < 1257128442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because colemak is a halfway measure between qwerty and dvorak < 1257128460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i thought that too and deewiant said "no it isn't bitch" and i researched it < 1257128462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather hard to come up with a legitimate use case for that < 1257128468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak actually has better statistical properties than dvorak. < 1257128480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers don't lie < 1257128486 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers of what? < 1257128490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257128499 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I name my HackBot-alike wiki? < 1257128502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what statistical properties? < 1257128504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance finger travel, how much you stray from the home row < 1257128508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand distribution < 1257128508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257128515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak is simply better than dvorak < 1257128520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eh? < 1257128524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lies. < 1257128532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: whatever you say. < 1257128541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsubstantiated nonsense < 1257128545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HockBat, HackBotter, HackBot++ < 1257128548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice, troll < 1257128558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm thinking of making a wiki where every node is like a command in HackEgo. < 1257128573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's not really a "wiki" is it < 1257128591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it not? Anybody can edit any page, the pages just happen to be scripts. < 1257128607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, everything that lets people change it on the internet is now a wiki? < 1257128617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collaborative paint? more like WIKI PAINT < 1257128637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except this would actually be extremely similar to a wiki, in that there are pages which are editable. < 1257128643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the biggest problem with colemak is that it's used exclusively by douchebag < 1257128654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1257128656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Deewiant loves you too < 1257128658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only met one person who used colemak, and he was a douchebag < 1257128665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=1 < 1257128667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great sample size < 1257128677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not a very popular layout < 1257128682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: do you use dvorak? < 1257128684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257128691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, you're a douchebag too < 1257128705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will now proceed to discard all the rest of my sample of dvorak users to be on a level playing field < 1257128710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kimgrahamstudios.com/images/troll-15.jpg < 1257128712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257128721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun having an op that's a troll! < 1257128723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: aw sorry :( < 1257128725 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a douchebag. I'm not even a bag! < 1257128736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not even a tree i don't know what Rugxulo is talkingn about < 1257128736 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a meatbag? ;-) < 1257128740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talking < 1257128795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lady is weird < 1257128798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257128855 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25-Dec-2006: David Piepgrass: Why QWERTY, And What's Better? (PDF). < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“All things considered, I believe Colemak is better than Dvorak and the best alternative to QWERTY.” < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Piepgrass is the designer of the Asset keyboard layout. < 1257128935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to carpalx, which is the most extensive research on keyboard layouts done so far, Colemak wins over Dvorak and QWERTY in all different typing effort models. < 1257128935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Andrei Stanescu: "Colemak is quite close to Dvorak. It scores a little bit better in some areas and a bit worse in other areas, and its overall score is usually 2-5% better than that of Dvorak, but it is worse for some texts. So it's slightly better than Dvorak, especially if you take into consideration its other advantages (better position for Backspace and similarity to Qwerty)." < 1257128940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—http://colemak.com/Media < 1257128942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, their media page is biased but that doesn't change the facts. also, http://colemak.com/Ergonomic < 1257128944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see http://colemak.com/Compare to get some statistics for various texts < 1257128946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could go on but i'm lazy < 1257129036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I type fast enough on QWERTY, so it's mainly hand strain and comfort that makes me want to switch. < 1257129047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think slower than i can type, so) < 1257129084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, ehird, what main apps will your distro intend to run? < 1257129149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window manager http://dwm.suckless.org/, terminal emulator (either urxvt or st (http://st.suckless.org/) or something), command-line toolset, vim, irc client ii (http://tools.suckless.org/ii), browser prolly surf http://surf.suckless.org/... i swear it isn't all suckless software, just the most-used stuff :-P < 1257129160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring infrastructure) < 1257129179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which case my init, my package manager, xorg, not sure what shell yet (maybe pdksh)) < 1257129180 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TinyC? < 1257129194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: alas tcc can't really compile much worthwhile. besides, it's ELF only < 1257129206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc for kernel+libc+stuff, < 1257129207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can run .c as if scripts < 1257129214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang (llvm) for the rest < 1257129218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gcc if absoslutely needed < 1257129221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*absolutely < 1257129223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc is probably newlib < 1257129227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or eglibc for shit things that require glibc < 1257129230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no it can't < 1257129234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just compiles them and runs them < 1257129240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that with anything. besides, it's useless < 1257129241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rAM? < 1257129245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257129247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a temp file < 1257129257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay < 1257129294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc is cool though... shinhichiro hamaji (anarchy golf owner) contributed 64-bit support to the latest release < 1257129314 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Rob Landrey whined forever that it didn't support 64-bit < 1257129328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the guy that worked on it? < 1257129335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were other reasons too iirc < 1257129336 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he forked it a few times, that's all < 1257129348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his complaints were mostly complete dormancy. < 1257129353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | Colemak = ban < 1257129356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little option other than to fork < 1257129357 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that and relying on CVS < 1257129361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1257129365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which he hates with a passion < 1257129409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does anyone sane. < 1257129415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most insane. < 1257129567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS's use was only excusable when the principle alternative was RCS... < 1257129588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1257129730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about things not likenable to laughing at a retarded kitten < 1257129773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (argc == 2 && !strcmp(argv[1], "--version")) { < 1257129773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : puts("This is not GNU sed version 4.0"); < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—busybox < 1257129779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopps < 1257129782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chopped fof the comment < 1257129785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Lie to autoconf when it starts asking stupid questions. */ < 1257129789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above that < 1257129797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oops *chopped *off < 1257129801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257129820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'chopped' was correct ;-) < 1257129910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:56 AnMaster: i don't think i have tried to use /list without a channel argument, if that's what you mean. i'm not _that_ stupid :D < 1257129910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine < 1257129912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on efnet < 1257129929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it only takes a few seconds on freenode < 1257129944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only 5769 public rooms < 1257129972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[#!/bin/mksh] Welcome to the portable MirBSD Korn Shell discussion channel. For mksh on MirBSD see #mirbsd on Freeforge (http://mirbsd.de/irc) as well; be invited to stay here though. Encoding: UTF-8. English spoken. Wir sprechen Deutsch." < 1257129973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooh < 1257129995 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a fork of pdksh < 1257129997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the website of the MirBSD™ Korn Shell, an actively developed free implementation of the Korn Shell programming language and a successor to the Public Domain Korn Shell (pdksh)." < 1257130000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it ain't bloated < 1257130004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: pdksh is unmaintained though < 1257130007 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257130017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also forked JOE (-> JUPP) < 1257130033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not gonna ship bash < 1257130062 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do an "--enable-minimal-config" with Bash, if desired < 1257130073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, much rather have a better shell < 1257130075 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, don't forget Dash (although if you dislike GPL, it probably is) < 1257130081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash will be available for compatibility, probably < 1257130093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shell scripting, rc will be overwhelmingly recommended < 1257130155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm consdering shipping the Heirloom tools http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/ as the userlaand < 1257130158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*userland < 1257130193 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rc will run autoconf scripts, so you'll have to use dash or similar < 1257130211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no duh, rc is totally different < 1257130221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf scripts can be run with pdksh and the like. < 1257130228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're ridiculously over-portable. < 1257130235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in this case happens to be advantageous for me. < 1257130239 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, often they don't get enough testing < 1257130242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash will be an optional install i.e. a package < 1257130250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something breaks, try and fix it, else install dash < 1257130257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reason to avoid GPL (e.g. dietlibc) explicitly? < 1257130272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one, I don't like GPL, but I have two specific objections to dietlibc being GPL < 1257130283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, the author is a raving loon about it (says it's to stop microsoft stealing it to make windows better) < 1257130291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, it means i can't redistribute non-GPL binaries compiled with it < 1257130296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i simply cannot use it < 1257130303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, this is acknowledged by the author) < 1257130303 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe LGPL might be better no? < 1257130307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: aha, in fact < 1257130311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc is lgpl and i can't use it either < 1257130312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1257130314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i statically link < 1257130314 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-GPL compatible, maybe, but that's not a huge problem as lots of stuff is GPL anyways < 1257130319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to distribute the unlinked .o < 1257130325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the binary < 1257130331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the program's .o) < 1257130336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ha ha ha ha ha ha HA < 1257130338 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then just do that < 1257130348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no, a large amount of non-shit software is non-gpl < 1257130360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know others exist, but GPL is definitely popular < 1257130368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance all suckless tools, all ported plan 9 tools, ... and a lot of shit software is non-gpl too: xorg, ncurses, ... < 1257130380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang, etc. < 1257130393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: let's put it this way — simply by selecting the least crappy software I can, I will be shipping almost no GPL'd code < 1257130409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on having all the programs I ship be GPL will simply never happen < 1257130417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my first objection stands regardless of anything; he's a loon < 1257130422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact he's a rather well-known loon) < 1257130440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw since when is clang gpl. < 1257130454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bsd just like llvm < 1257130467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why I'm probably going to use it as the main userspace compiler < 1257130469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm-gcc is the only GPL thing of LLVM. < 1257130479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will have to write my own a.out support for LLVM; easy enough) < 1257130485 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I said Clang was BSD < 1257130492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't, but i see how to parse it now < 1257130498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying other licenses exist, but GPL is everywhere (seemingly) < 1257130534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully those sane enough to produce decent software are also almost always sane enough to avoid the gpl < 1257130546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, what will be gpl'd that i ship... linux and... < 1257130549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. .. < 1257130555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's it < 1257130561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM is GPL compatible, but I don't know the exact details < 1257130564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc there will be gpl'd packages available, talking about default distribution) < 1257130581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay, linux and vim then < 1257130593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— I'd prefer to ship a better vi clone than vim but they all kinda suck < 1257130596 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is dual licensed, I think (artistic and GPL) < 1257130599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least vim isn't retarded about being traditional < 1257130605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elvis? XVI? VILE? < 1257130606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking at you, http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ < 1257130616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the same guy as the heirloom tools incidentally) < 1257130627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elvis is unmaintained and shit, wait, i just addressed all of them :P < 1257130628 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi < 1257130647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi is basically the same as http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ < 1257130652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nvi is a reimplementation < 1257130661 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like VILE, personally, but Elvis is okay too, XVI is a little too spartan < 1257130662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ex-vi is the real deal < 1257130672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vile isn't a vi clone anyway < 1257130678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's emacsy vi < 1257130681 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, NVI is a clean-room reimplementation that is 8-bit clean, full undo, tab completion, etc. < 1257130699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but VILE does a lot of stuff normal vi does while keeping most "finger feel" < 1257130728 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi is BSD, by the way < 1257130733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see, anyway < 1257130743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll just ship plan9port's acme :))) < 1257130745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah) < 1257130759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ship some 9base tools though, maybe even the whole thing < 1257130768 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e3vi ? < 1257130777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, it's not surprising that you've got non-GPL'd stuff as the default distribution. < 1257130778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plan9port fork that just has minimal stuff, no plan9 gui tools or whatever; rc, awk, sed, a few plan9 libs etc) < 1257130780 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmmm, can't remember what license) < 1257130791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I might use the libutf included for osme stuff < 1257130793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some < 1257130801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original, and best, unicode+utf-8 library < 1257130819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first implementation of utf-8, right after they invented it) < 1257130822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the nonsuck out there is pretty much BSD. < 1257130828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257130834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1257130840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes in all shapes and sizes :-) < 1257130850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really doesn't < 1257130853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good and bad stuff exists in everything < 1257130866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes someone sane to produce software that doesn't suck, or at least sanely insane < 1257130868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :license is arbitrary < 1257130869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's GNU stuff that at least functions correctly, and there's old proprietary UNIX stuff that has crazy amounts of buffer overflows) < 1257130871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane people don't use the gpl < 1257130903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mindset someone requires to use the gpl (authoritarian, paranoia, conspiratorial anti-corporatism, ...) is the kind of mindset that produces bad software < 1257130907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially authoritarianism) < 1257130907 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even MS (rarely) uses the GPL (for that tiny bit of driver code they wrote recently) < 1257130918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: and? MS stuff sucks < 1257130918 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most people consider them "most insane of all" !! < 1257130934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 99% of their stuff ain't GPL, so ... how can it suck? ;-) < 1257130935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple exclamation marks. a sure sign of madness < 1257130940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: fallacy < 1257130948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most non-suck isn't GPL != most non-GPL isn't suck < 1257130961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, that's like a third grader's logical error < 1257130966 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but you'd think that the company with the most money could hire the best talent, and yet that isn't true either < 1257130975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can and do, ms people are smart < 1257130978 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they shun the GPL yet still "suck" < 1257130980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that they can't manage them < 1257130980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no < 1257130988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes. < 1257130997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in my experience < 1257131000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise, Rugxulo, that the inventors of unix worked for ms? < 1257131004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of them at least < 1257131006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ritchie iirc < 1257131014 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1257131021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i forget who it was < 1257131023 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they hired the VMS dude and owned Xenix for a while < 1257131029 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave Cutler? < 1257131034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA no < 1257131041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cutler is a moron who hates unix and spreads fud about it < 1257131061 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hates Windows too < 1257131067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't, he loves NT < 1257131070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anymore < 1257131079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did he change his mind? exciting. < 1257131096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, yes, some MS people are smart. the reason they don't have as many is because they manage the smart people terribly < 1257131100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so smart people avoid them < 1257131107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're perfectly capable of hiring them < 1257131135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he stopped working for them after NT 4.0 (from what I heard) < 1257131148 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just kept him quiet about his differences and continued without him < 1257131162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ... he still works at microsoft dude < 1257131165 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MS is too keen to advertise instead of actually fixing things < 1257131171 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't, at least not last I heard < 1257131174 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Zippo doesn't work there anymore < 1257131183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"David Cutler at work on Windows Azure", picture, wikipedia < 1257131184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Community Technology Preview was given to Professional Developers Conference 2008 attendees.[3] This preview is set to expire in the 2nd quarter of 2009.[citation needed] < 1257131197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the 2008 Professional Developers Conference, Microsoft announced Azure Services Platform, a cloud-based operating system which Microsoft is developing. During the conference keynote, Cutler was mentioned as a lead developer on the project, along with Amitabh Srivastava.[3] < 1257131201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was officially involved with the Windows XP Pro 64-bit and Windows Server 2003 SP1 64-bit releases, as well as Windows Vista. He moved to working on Microsoft's Live Platform in August 2006. Dave Cutler was awarded the prestigious status of Technical Fellow at Microsoft. < 1257131215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/techfellow/Cutler/default.mspx < 1257131229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds different from what I read, but what do I know? :-P < 1257131252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems ksh doesn't support tab completion or whatever, begging the question "why use this over rc?" < 1257131268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Man... < 1257131271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only reason not to use rc is because terminals are dumb and rc only does what it shhould (be a shell) < 1257131273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite awful. < 1257131274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*should < 1257131282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as a hack, use a shitty shell that oversteps its boundaries < 1257131286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: define "that" < 1257131291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No tab completion? < 1257131293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1257131358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?? pdksh supports tab completion < 1257131369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cuz i installed it and i see no tabs bein' completed < 1257131374 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, here's what I read on Wikipedia for Cutler (discussion page, heh, not exactly official): < 1257131376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the manpage < 1257131376 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cutler 'left' Microsoft in the spring of 1996. Oh yes he's 'officially' on board but that's only because Microsoft don't want to lose his name. Instead they've helped finance Cutler's race car passion. As Cutler himself said of the deal: 'it keeps me from pissing all over them'. By the time of the Denver DC the word was getting out and Microsofties were whispering in panic 'Dave is gone! Dave is gone!' —Preceding unsigned com < 1257131377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 90.5.7.87 (talk • contribs) 20:47, August 31, 2008" < 1257131395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiracy theories; exciting < 1257131448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Interactive Input Line Editing < 1257131448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The shell supports three modes of reading command lines from a tty in < 1257131449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : an interactive session. Which is used is controlled by the emacs, < 1257131452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems promising < 1257131555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can edit line but not tab < 1257131567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vi-tabcomplete In vi command line editing, do < 1257131567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : command / file name completion < 1257131568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : when tab (^I) is entered in < 1257131568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : insert mode. < 1257131569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be close < 1257131581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And sorry but I have first hand information that regardless of where he was officially moved he wasn't there anymore. He got sick and tired of them, did a deal to stay silent, and left. He turns up for dos and MS want his name around but he is definitely out of the picture by the spring of 1996. And that's first hand info - from the former developers on his team right outside the Tribe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90 < 1257131581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(talk • contribs) 20:47, August 31, 2008" < 1257131662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1257131664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got completion working < 1257131698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257131698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257131700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick in ~/.kshrc < 1257131709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hm < 1257131711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it read .kshrc < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILES < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~/.profile < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/profile < 1257131737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/suid_profile < 1257131737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1257131839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, those are the two commands you need < 1257131994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this seems to "work" < 1257131999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd much prefer rc, but... < 1257132179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to refine my C code. < 1257132342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BTW, don't blame me for this hack; it's in the original ksh." < 1257132494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')$ " < 1257132613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the code to change title of xterm again? < 1257132744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity my code for that is in zsh... < 1257132937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257132937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')" < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title=$(printf "\r\r\r\e]0;$dir\a\r") < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="$title$dir$ " < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset dir title < 1257132940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD < 1257132980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the r stuff works properly < 1257132981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')" < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title=$(printf "\e]0;$dir\a") < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="$title$dir$ " < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset dir title < 1257133036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ $0 = ksh ]; then . ~/.kshrc; fi < 1257133036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ~/.profile < 1257133046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're done. < 1257133081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257133083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksh does ## < 1257133143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm what's the ${##} type thing to replace... < 1257133152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, rc is so much simpler than all of this b u l l s h i t < 1257133186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanna know how you get shit in the title in rc? < 1257133187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn prompt { printf '\e]0;'^`{pwd}^'\a' } < 1257133191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't do the replacement < 1257133199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know how fucking easy it is to do the replacement? < 1257133220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn prompt { printf '\e]0;'^`{pwd | sed "s@^$HOME@~@"}^'\a' } < 1257133226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no " quotes < 1257133227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1257133228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1257133229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial shit < 1257133233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn these shells < 1257133316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, why do people truncate history files? < 1257133428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257133435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh finally < 1257133438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have cracked it < 1257133501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1257133502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1257133532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i will get this working < 1257133867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ism't there a rlwrap that keeps track of cwd < 1257133869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't < 1257134118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1257135013 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-46-194.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1257135382 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257135385 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257135413 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good repartition of memory cycles for a system < 1257135479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers writing a fortran compiler for no reason
< 1257135486 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you have 400 memory cycles per scanline (in 320x240 @ 60fps) to share between video hardware, cpu and sound < 1257135507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs 60fps, do 640x480 @ 30fps < 1257135531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257135543 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30fps is not NTSC or VGA compatible < 1257135546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact I'd go for 1280x960 @ 15fps unless i was going to do fun demosceney stuff, but eh; no lcds really support that res) < 1257135550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: touché < 1257135561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do 24fps then :-P or 29.999997 or whatever ntsc is < 1257135573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 320x240 is a bit low w imo < 1257135576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*low imo < 1257135592 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA refuses to display anything that had a horiz refresh of less than 30khz < 1257135602 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use line doubling < 1257135621 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact that's what vga does for low resolution modes) < 1257135634 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmmmm < 1257135648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can do fun graphics at 320x240, but text will be ugly or limited < 1257135649 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the use < 1257135665 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah text definitely benefits from 640x480 < 1257135672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30fps is enough for all the fast-paced FPS games out there /shrug < 1257135677 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean set the video output at 30Hz, and then display each frame twice at 60Hz < 1257135678 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257135686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work, yep < 1257135725 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you display 640x480 on a TV, you have to make it interlaced though < 1257135746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just use a crt < 1257135748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-tv) < 1257135756 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that would make it VGA < 1257135765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess vga is too boringly conventional :-D < 1257135771 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afaik a CRT accepts most stuff you throw at it < 1257135775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257135778 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually not bad < 1257135779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interlacing would work fine though < 1257135788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257135793 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the horiz rate has to be at least 30khz < 1257135793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the artifacts :-P < 1257135799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1257135854 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence 320x240 (which is actually 320x480 with each line displayed twice) and 640x480 < 1257135899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supporting a TV is cool, though... but interlacing artifacts would ruin the coolness of hooking up an fpga to a TV and seeing a spinning cube :) < 1257135920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do 576i! < 1257135933 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1257135937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i < 1257135940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pal tv resolution < 1257135957 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no device that would show it < 1257135960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you canucks use < 1257135962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntsc? < 1257135964 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257135979 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yankeevision < 1257136008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low resolution might not be so bad since it's a crt tv < 1257136012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they basically antialiase for you ;-) < 1257136040 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to base it on VGA timing < 1257136050 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically VGA 640x480 < 1257136128 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if LCDs will accept 524 scanline 640x480 or if they want 525 scanlines < 1257136141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't vga 640x480 interlacing on a tv < 1257136153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, LCDs just accept their native resolution. anything else is acceptable < 1257136155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just scale it to shit < 1257136173 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno how LCDs handle freaky hacked VGA modes < 1257136184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1257136205 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I know is that they guess the horiz resolution from the # of lines < 1257136228 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically they guess 640x350, 720x400 and 640x480 < 1257136271 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately that wrecks 640x400 modes (80x50 text mode and 320x200) < 1257136421 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't normal text modes 9 pixels wide per character cell? < 1257136449 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are both 8 pixel and 9 pixel modes! < 1257136460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way too small to actually read though :P < 1257136487 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact VGA has 2 different clock crystals, one for 8 pixel mode (640x) and one for 9 pixel mode (720x) < 1257136509 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there also 16 pixel mode? < 1257136517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each glyph must be 8x20 for 640x480 80x24 text mode < 1257136573 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 9 pixel mode it generates an extra pixel, usually black, without any charset data < 1257136583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by glyph i mean including spaciing < 1257136585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spacing < 1257136588 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's a kinda weird mode < 1257136596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assuming one pixel character separation, < 1257136600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two pixel line separation < 1257136608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chars themselves would be 7x18 < 1257136610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1257136620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257136628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257136642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: it's weird, but it's also fun and unconventional :P < 1257136655 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more common is 640x350 80x25 with 8x14 chars, 720x400 80x25 with 8+1x16 chars < 1257136673 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x400 80x50 with 8x8 :D < 1257136681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 80x24 is more common than 80x25 :-P < 1257136686 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on PC! < 1257136691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define pc < 1257136694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x24 is universal on unix < 1257136695 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM PC < 1257136703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah :-P < 1257136715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to imitate the PC! < 1257136762 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done some ZZT and Megazeux games, the systems are based on 80x25 < 1257136770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, square chars are silly :-P < 1257136784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english isn't square! < 1257136790 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's because our alphabet is narrow yeah :D < 1257136821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x12 might be good; gives you 80x40 < 1257136831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an *excellent* size for English text < 1257136853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and programming...) < 1257136886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a bit TOO narrow though < 1257136900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1257136905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use two pixels at bottom or top for line spacing < 1257136907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one for char spacing < 1257136915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you can use them for characters that don't quite fit...) < 1257136923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it isn't quite as narrow but the glyphs are still 8x12 < 1257136932 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1257136933 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have my VGA tweaking program ready to use :D < 1257136933 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1257136977 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gameprogrammer.com/demos/tweak16b.zip <- a good old classic vga tweaking program some dude wrote in 1993 < 1257137093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing non-cookie-cutter pixel fonts is hard < 1257137100 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the monitor can definitely cope with a missing vga line or two :D < 1257137117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x12 would be cool to serif < 1257137117 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I drew a couple in megazeux's char editor < 1257137124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays with it
< 1257137130 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(8x14 of course since that's what megazeux uses) < 1257137166 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best trick with text mode fonts is to keep using 2 pixel wide vertical lines < 1257137340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that could make this look less like an outline, yeah < 1257137396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1257137400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's enough variation to do bold here < 1257137403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this size < 1257137730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: 7x12 might be better for english text, actually (regular glyph size 6x10 due to spacing) < 1257137745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although... hmm < 1257137746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1257137753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just that "c" looks a bit stretched) < 1257137834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257137844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: does 640x480 on a tv have square pixels? < 1257137855 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on TVs? < 1257137858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1257137869 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On TVs it's probably something like "who knows" < 1257137889 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if TVs eat the top and bottom 8 lines < 1257137897 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly yes < 1257137957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how the pixels look different when you zoom out < 1257137964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most CRTs are so crappy as to smooth out any oddities anyway :D < 1257137981 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ZSNES seems to output 256x224 < 1257138009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow — 640x480 is a lot with 8x12 characters! (7x10 regular glyphs yada yada yada) < 1257138028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could fit a novel onto one screen :P < 1257138046 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257138068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x40 doesn't seem much, but it looks like it... < 1257138110 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many apps use 80x50 < 1257138162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how you have to do slightly different m etrics to get bold characters to have the same shape as regular ones. < 1257138180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metrics < 1257138216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't people do more serifed pixel fonts? < 1257138230 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I like sans serif :D < 1257138241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I, but serif pixel fonts look nice < 1257138248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the serifs are so tiny, it's just like adding some spice to it < 1257138258 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a style yeah < 1257138276 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans serif is a bit more stylistically neutral < 1257138319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all sans serif pixel fonts look the same :) < 1257138334 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends if you're creative :D < 1257138415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well definitely my, what was it, 3x4 glyphs (always 1px spacing around it, so 4x5 if you want ot be pedantic) were pretty unique and yet the same... < 1257138424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unique because I had to contort lots of characters in fun ways, the same because, well < 1257138438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many ways to draw the alphabet, numbers and some punctuation at that size < 1257138445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i did have two sets of numbers, lowercase and uppercase < 1257138448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went with the corresponding alphabet < 1257138449 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest 8 pixel wide < 1257138458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every single one was different < 1257138468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: glyph or char (spacing) < 1257138479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glyph w/o spacing char w/ < 1257138510 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including spacing, so 7 pixel of data < 1257138528 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you also use the spacing pixels! < 1257138550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you can use them for e.g. accents < 1257138553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or punctuation < 1257138555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and descenders < 1257138562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ascenders it's generally best to leave the normal spacing) < 1257138600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I'm doing now is 7x10 usual glyph, 8x12 size < 1257138610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your suggestion has been heeded :-P < 1257138638 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you need space for descencers, accents over capital letters < 1257138640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257138643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257138653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a whole two vertical pixels available for descenders :-P < 1257138656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the vertical spacing at the bottom) < 1257138689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real space for accents though :-D < 1257138690 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 8x14 fonts normally have 2 space lines at the top and 3 at the bottom < 1257138704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1257138713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7x10 glyphs are just enough to be able to design :P < 1257138722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e is really hard though < 1257138747 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, you don't have to squeeze it < 1257138754 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to, say, m < 1257138759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to get it looking like my other chars < 1257138761 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sometimes hard: s < 1257138764 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And T < 1257138772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1257138781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: aah s was almost impossible in my 3x4-glyph font < 1257138785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Z vs 2 < 1257138792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and z vs Z < 1257138799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(capital letter = lowercase letter height for space) < 1257138819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I used an optical illusion to make it look like z was like a small zeta even though it had no curve :P < 1257138820 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most snes games use sans serif < 1257138833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the same to do N < 1257138839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to optical illusion the slant < 1257138957 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't make it into a typewriter font :D < 1257139010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, why? < 1257139073 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I always thought courrier looked awful :D < 1257139107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, it does < 1257139110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate courier < 1257139174 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some games have chinese calligraphy imitation fonts < 1257139198 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's hard to shoehorn latin letters into chinese calligraphy due to the kind of shape they use :D < 1257139208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257139336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bold letters look smaller < 1257139343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are, i guess, they're shorter generally, the lowercase parts < 1257139346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just so they don't look weird < 1257139490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh f is a challenge < 1257139593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success, I think < 1257139599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks a bit weird, but oho well < 1257139603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very serif < 1257139722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use this as a terminal font < 1257140056 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257140093 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's this idea that sans serif is closer to a "pure" version of the letters < 1257140113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, but it also reflects why sans serif pixel fonts almost all look identical < 1257140127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to express the purest form in such constraints, there's almost a "right way" to do it < 1257140129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do it < 1257140149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at bigger sizes there's more ambiguity, so to speak, so you can have unique sans serif typefaces < 1257140158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but going smaller, serifs really help to distinguish it < 1257140471 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoo yeah < 1257140477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1257140481 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found the vga 28mhz clock bit < 1257140524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, fucking i < 1257140528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make i span 7 chars < 1257140530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels < 1257140534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, and you have a shitload of spacing < 1257140536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid monospace < 1257140608 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that's monospace < 1257140615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257140618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monospace is pretty silly. < 1257140631 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can get it to 4 pixels wide with serif < 1257140638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257140640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monospace isn't silly :D < 1257140646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is < 1257140675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how four pixels < 1257140676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 3 < 1257141724 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most modes that would be neat flat out don't work < 1257141739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1257141744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modes as in text modes or < 1257141751 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga modes < 1257141754 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257141804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which neat ones don't work? < 1257141849 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x40 text mode 640x480 with 8x12 chars DOES work though :D < 1257141861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^__^ < 1257141864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best mode there is! < 1257141878 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that aren't 320x or 360x (or 640x or 720x for 16 color and text modes) < 1257141892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x48 might be cooler tho < 1257141901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can have two unix terminals at once < 1257141907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x50 for PC < 1257141911 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x48 is really easy to hack < 1257141926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, too easy < 1257141937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to do 8x10 < 1257141938 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically character height is free < 1257141950 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has no effect on monitor timing < 1257141960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x12 is better for text, anyway, so losing a few lines is no big deal < 1257141976 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monitor timing is the stupid part where the monitor gets finnicky and refuses your mode < 1257141983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257141994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what's the lowest res and highest timing you ca n d o < 1257141995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can do < 1257141998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can do < 1257142054 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA is not meant for modes other than x350, x400 and x480 although normally modes with less lines actually do work < 1257142074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try :D < 1257142210 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what works is modes with faster frame rates and more lines, except VGA has a fixed clock so none of these modes are practical outside SVGA < 1257142669 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257143517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of the 51 system calls present in Plan 9, we have written equivalents of the most essential ones, allowing simple executables like cat, sed, grep and even the Plan 9 C compiler, 8c to run unmodified on Linux." —Glendix < 1257143520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could reuse the c compiler < 1257143521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah) < 1257143524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too standards incompliant < 1257143537 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257143877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/technology/computers/7869585-man-using-trackball.php?id=7869585 hypnotic < 1257144183 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257144812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The way it was characterized politically, you had copyright, which is what the big companies use to lock everything up; you had copyleft, which is free software's way of making sure they can't lock it up; and then Berkeley had what we called 'copycenter', which is 'take it down to the copy center and make as many copies as you want.'" — Kirk McKusick, BSDCon 1999 < 1257144901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Controversial decisions are often made differently from OpenBSD; for instance, there won't be any support for SMP in MirOS." let me know how that works out for you < 1257145374 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257145467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1257145472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternative to llvm/clang? mayhaps < 1257145566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.zentus.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/os/linux/ccconfig.h?rev=1.16;content-type=text%2Fplain Repeat after me! Linux! Is! Not! ELF! < 1257147443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to use CVS as a DVCS
< 1257147444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA < 1257147905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was surprisingly easy < 1257148119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew, I even got pulling and pushing for free < 1257148128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel dirty now (← DO NOT TAKE THESE TWO LINES OUT OF CONTEXT) < 1257148161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/new_thinkpad_1.jpg < 1257148163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped or a ripoff < 1257148176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god AnMaster, you are so lucky to have bought yours already < 1257148178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1257148338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaaaaaaait, it looks 4:3 < 1257148341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a shop. < 1257148564 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257148588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257148799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257148800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257149027 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul[AFK] < 1257149375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C compiler that compiles in less than a minute. Refreshing. < 1257149670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? < 1257149872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/, an update of the old pcc. BSD licensed. < 1257149878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, PCC. < 1257149883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny, fast. Good platform support. Good GCC compatibility. < 1257149888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs are eyeing it to replace GCC eventually. < 1257149896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also compiles very quickly. < 1257149902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, compiles code you give to it) < 1257149903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C compiler that doesn't have more abstraction layers than frontends. :P < 1257149908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler itself compiles in less than a minute < 1257149910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :-D < 1257149923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes it compile itself
< 1257149973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it doesn't have -Os yet < 1257149987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but methinks this may be a contender for the main compiler < 1257149993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimalist, well-coded, well-licensed, and fast. < 1257150011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YACC The `Yet Another C Compiler' implementation to use." < 1257150016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typo in autoconf?! < 1257150028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Man. < 1257150034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257150047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought autoconf was a well-implemented bad idea, rather than a typo'd one. :P < 1257150056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope someone changed that in some pcc file, because oh my word. < 1257150059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Microwerks? SERIOUSLY? < 1257150061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257150063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include//stdarg.h:8: error: "This header only supports __MWERKS__." < 1257150063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Microwerks? SERIOUSLY? < 1257150073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(__GNUC__) < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include_next < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#elif defined(__MWERKS__) < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "mw_stdarg.h" < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1257150075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#error "This header only supports __MWERKS__." < 1257150076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1257150081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalms* < 1257150110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1257150117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, stdargs.h only works with gcc. Paste the following lines into /usr/local/lib/pcc/stdarg.h: < 1257150120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks pcc website < 1257150121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pastes
< 1257150135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does the obvious: < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifndef _STDARG_H_ < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _STDARG_H_ < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_list char * < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _VA_LIST < 1257150138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_start(ap, last) __builtin_stdarg_start((ap), last) < 1257150138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_arg(ap, type) __builtin_va_arg((ap), type) < 1257150140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_end(ap) __builtin_va_end((ap)) < 1257150142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_copy(dest, src) __builtin_va_copy((dest), (src)) < 1257150144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1257150146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, flood. Sorry. < 1257150166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld whines a lot about < 1257150167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld warning: can't find atom for N_GSYM stabs _stublist:G1 in compat.o < 1257150173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we get the error < 1257150176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc -DGCC_COMPAT -DPCC_DEBUG -Dos_darwin -Dmach_i386 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -I. -I../.. -I../../mip -I../../arch/i386 -I../../os/darwin -g -Wall -Wmissing-prototypes -Wstrict-prototypes -Wshadow -Wsign-compare -Wtruncate -c -o pftn.o pftn.c < 1257150176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pftn.c, line 1856: compiler error: Cannot generate code, node 0x839b70 op OREG < 1257150178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before that? < 1257150179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn that flew. < 1257150215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (i = 0, base = tylnk.next; base; base = base->next, i++) < 1257150215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a[i] = base->df; < 1257150221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd place to fail (the second line, I think) < 1257152153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's in fact the previous line. < 1257152252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/new_thinkpad_1.jpg <-- huh < 1257152260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably either photoshopped or a fake. < 1257152265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ripoff fake that is) < 1257152266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1257152275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially note that stretched thinkpad logo≥ < 1257152275 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's about it < 1257152277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logo. < 1257152284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: it's an abomination against thinkpads < 1257152288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed < 1257152290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- chiclet keyboard (seriously!!) < 1257152291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- white shell < 1257152297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- ugh, just so ugly < 1257152305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chiclet keyboard? < 1257152310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1257152311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look carefully < 1257152313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are separated < 1257152315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think macbook keyboard < 1257152317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sony vaio < 1257152322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh indeed < 1257152328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also shallower than most laptop keyboards < 1257152338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure lenovo would never do this though < 1257152342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless to the sl line, which sucks anyway < 1257152363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl line? < 1257152374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpad SL. < 1257152381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consumer"; glossy, iirc 16:9 not sure though < 1257152385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257152387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internals are not actually thinkpad internals. < 1257152391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(taken from ideapad or something) < 1257152400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles ideapad
< 1257152409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consumer" lenovo notebooks < 1257152413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257152450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link me to latest cfunge code drop or bzr or whatever < 1257152455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna try and compile it with pcc :) < 1257152502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't compile with pcc. at least didn't last I tried. < 1257152508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new pcc or old. < 1257152511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc failing at C99 < 1257152515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been improved. < 1257152515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about half a year ago? < 1257152516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :massively < 1257152519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1257152525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. sec for code < 1257152526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bsdfund.org/projects/pcc/ < 1257152530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see "improved c99 functionality". < 1257152551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr branch lp:cfunge/trunk < 1257152594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Support BSD with every purchase! Every time you use the BSD Fund Visa, a small donation is made to BSD Fund to support its programs." < 1257152594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires some dedication... < 1257152634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk < 1257152646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is a "get a tarball" link there somewhere < 1257152649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see one though < 1257152657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already branched. < 1257152669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake seems happy with pcc so far, using ccmake. < 1257152689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default settings are fine to build a full cfunge, yep? < 1257152712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, should be. Not sure if cmake is likely to mess something up there < 1257152720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pcc I mean < 1257152721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time make go < 1257152730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/lib/genx/genx.c.o < 1257152734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Users/ehird/Downloads/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c, line 848: compiler error: Cannot generate code, node 0x81c490 op >> < 1257152738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventful build, that. < 1257152742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257152747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: This is probably due to me being on OS X. < 1257152753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want I should try it in my Arch VM? < 1257152754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that file isn't even very C99ish < 1257152759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See note about OS X. < 1257152775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. feel free to. I tried it under FreeBSD iirc < 1257152835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Command substitution was something else I added because that gives you very general mechanism to do string processing; it allows you to get strings back from commands and use them as the text of the script as if you had typed it directly. I think this was a new idea that I, at least, had not seen in scripting languages, except perhaps LISP." < 1257152835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you Bourne, it was a really terrible idae. < 1257152836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1257152864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1257152868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean `` < 1257152879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and later on $() ) < 1257152881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to put quotes everywhere so that it ends up just like a regular programming language < 1257152882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very useful < 1257152906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay good point < 1257152907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all uses of it in non-quoted ways apart from to send as arguments (like python *foo) are harmful hacks because the shell is crippled < 1257152933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo pacman -S bzr cvs" < 1257152961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs? < 1257152965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pcc. < 1257152975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also: "Moreover - although the v7 shell is written in C - Bourne took advantage of some macros[1] to give the C source code an ALGOL 68 flavor." < 1257152980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically this guy is totally crazy. < 1257152994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Nobody really knows what the Bourne shell's grammar is. Even examination of the source code is little help." —Tom Duff) < 1257153009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257153015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/main.c.html < 1257153021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feast your eyes upon the macroed horror!!!! < 1257153031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IF (flags&prompt) ANDF standin->fstak==0 ANDF !eof < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THEN IF mailnod.namval < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF stat(mailnod.namval,&statb)>=0 ANDF statb.st_size < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF (statb.st_mtime != mailtime) < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF mailtime < 1257153033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THEN prs(mailmsg) < 1257153034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FI < 1257153066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257153090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, pcc supports pdp11. < 1257153090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UFD output = 2; < 1257153090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOCAL BOOL beenhere = FALSE; < 1257153091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257153103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pdp10. < 1257153135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but ksh isn't this bad < 1257153139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik? < 1257153146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdksh probably isn't so bad. < 1257153157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still erring on the side of rc for the shell < 1257153176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, who was that "Tom Duff" you mentioned (invokes aisness) < 1257153190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Duff. he also has an account on our wiki, and that picture is horrible < 1257153211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: duff device < 1257153213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1257153216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that duff < 1257153223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/papers/gfx/pjw.ps.17761.gif < 1257153226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better picture :-P < 1257153238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's "pjw" < 1257153249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong person < 1257153250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257153253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257153297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, pcc doesn't do C++. < 1257153307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not an issue is it? < 1257153311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use clang < 1257153317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it becomes stable for c++ < 1257153322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do WebKit. < 1257153326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking clangged WebKit with pcc'd surf, though? < 1257153329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds risky. < 1257153339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not use clang for everything? < 1257153347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from kernel < 1257153348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is simpler, faster. < 1257153352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't supported yet iirc < 1257153385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is considering purchasing a trackball
< 1257153402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... i think i've retarded my thumbs using a mouse for so lnog < 1257153405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long < 1257153406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1257153413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulating trackball motion is uncomfortable < 1257153445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION make clean, reconfigure w—
< 1257153449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot to compile the libraries first < 1257153457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc-libs go go go < 1257153486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1257153546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can too create executables! < 1257153565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1257153571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would help if pcc was in my path, ehehehehe... < 1257153577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, turned into MKRY there. < 1257153617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you ever used a trackball? < 1257153633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. found it quite awkward. Only very temporarily < 1257153641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when helping someone having one with a computer issue. < 1257153643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some years ago < 1257153643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumb or finger? < 1257153651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. trackball in middle or to the side < 1257153656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the ball was on the side < 1257153682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncomfortable just after your thumb (bottom of your hand), would you say? That's what I'm getting when attempting it in thin air < 1257153690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lifting up motion, so to speak. < 1257153697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, pcc compiles itself. < 1257153698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, The fact that it was a left hand edition didn't help < 1257153704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1257153706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that'd do it. < 1257153719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand pcc is replaced by a pcc compiled by itself YO DAWG < 1257153721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I actually use mouse quite well with either hand < 1257153749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a symetric mouse for that reason
< 1257153902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any luck with cfunge? < 1257153905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc cannot compile a simple test program, sweet < 1257153914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ld: cannot find -lc" < 1257153922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1257153930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257153934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be libc < 1257153939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gathered < 1257153954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6 exists. < 1257154085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well then. I can't help you at all < 1257154090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue with pcc < 1257154099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ld, not pcc. < 1257154157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does gcc work? < 1257154170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; no. < 1257154177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base-devel is all you need in arch, right? < 1257154177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1257154201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, uh. maybe. not 100% sure. I know it works on my arch system for sure < 1257154207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was so long ago I set it up < 1257154243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION upgrades glibc
< 1257154259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand it works < 1257154273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1257154277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with pcc it doesn't. < 1257154335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait if gcc didn't work. How comes you could compile pcc at all? < 1257154349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, don't ask me. < 1257154361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1257154376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe only pcc is adding -lc, and I forgot to rm -rf before ccmaking without CC=pcc. < 1257154378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it used pcc again. < 1257154383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But pcc could compile pcc. < 1257154386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So cmake is fucking up. < 1257154410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possible. Or pcc is having issues with one of the cmake tests < 1257154418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257154420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if cmake works with gcc for cfunge < 1257154420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ld. < 1257154426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-lc" is wrong, whyever it's being added. < 1257154430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. It does. < 1257154433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1257154435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts configuring < 1257154437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly < 1257154449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then. if it passes the point where cmake fails pcc? < 1257154452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm < 1257154499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just that I know cfunge breaks some older cmake 2.6 versions. IIRC the interval [2.6, 2.6.3) < 1257154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6-patch 4 < 1257154517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that 2.6.4? < 1257154526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah same thing. Just me being lazy < 1257154543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway it breaks it by throwing a syntax error during the configure thing < 1257154552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the cmake moduls < 1257154558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modules* < 1257154627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1257154649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also /usr/lib/libc.so < 1257154653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257154662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, run file on it < 1257154668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have a vague idea < 1257154676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII C program text?! < 1257154685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah a linker script < 1257154685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257154687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a gnu ld script < 1257154688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257154692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my ld is gnu... < 1257154704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, won't it use /lib/libc.so.6? < 1257154708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of that. < 1257154712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no fucking clue < 1257154718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should by that linker script < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use the shared library, but some functions are only in < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the static library, so try that secondarily. */ < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf64-x86-64) < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GROUP ( /lib64/libc.so.6 /usr/lib64/libc_nonshared.a AS_NEEDED ( /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 ) ) < 1257154729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257154732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment fail < 1257154734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line was: < 1257154736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i have too < 1257154737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* GNU ld script < 1257154742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is on gentoo btw < 1257154777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be similar. maybe some diff in the /lib64 bit depending on how exactly the multilib stuff is done < 1257154791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if it is 32-bit) < 1257154799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, of course. < 1257154802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENABLE_64BIT is on. < 1257154815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that only affects size of funge cells < 1257154817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look in the retarded 64 directories — hey, another problem my distro doesn't have! :P < 1257154824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well it's 64 bit arch too < 1257154825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1257154837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is int32_t vs. int64_t for funge cells < 1257154840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257154841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all it does < 1257154841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine differs < 1257154847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf32-i386) < 1257154848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1257154849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no lib64s < 1257154852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONCLUSION < 1257154855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in cry's name < 1257154859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need some sort of < 1257154862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic-64bit-package < 1257154872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, is the distro 64-bit? < 1257154878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. < 1257154879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257154879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION only has 32-bit arch handy
< 1257154880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257154895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so confused... about everything... < 1257154906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nothing new there ;P < 1257154911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, a blind person who likes Python. < 1257154916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tab. Tab. print" < 1257154923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, joking? < 1257154927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, really < 1257154931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1257154935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... unexpected < 1257154936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I code with edbrowse, which is a derivitive of /bin/ed]] < 1257154939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore < 1257154942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the only option) < 1257154948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only option? how so? < 1257154961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole blind thing doesn't mesh with, you know, graphical editors. < 1257154966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257154970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including vi and all) < 1257154976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one of those braile ttys? < 1257154982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1257154984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for multiline text display < 1257154986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenreaders are easier. < 1257154990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make typing easier. < 1257154999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly. *imagines Microsoft sam reading lisp code* < 1257155010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of wish I could be temporarily blind, just so I could set up a tricked out text-to-speech environmeent. < 1257155013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*environment < 1257155130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, blindfold? < 1257155142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tempting! < 1257155158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines ehird's parents reaction on that
< 1257155161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a whole fun avenue of interface design that I'm totally deprived of. Blind people have it easy! < 1257155169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I think I missed some ' there < 1257155214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know. Since you aren't deaf you could use it even when without a blindfold < 1257155238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd cheat by looking. < 1257155249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'd be boring. :P < 1257155251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1257155261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, turn off the monitor? < 1257155267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unplug it's cable < 1257155273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. imac < 1257155276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1257155313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, looking at something that doesn't change (assuming I blanked the screen). < 1257155315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would get boring. < 1257155374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um < 1257155420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remember to not eat any floating eyes to get the most realistic being-blind blindfold experience. < 1257155421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you manage to get pcc to work < 1257155442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1257155442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1257155445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just do -Wl,-v < 1257155446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1257155448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it -V < 1257155451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-V? < 1257155454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbose < 1257155461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ld -V < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.18 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Supported emulations: < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elf_x86_64 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elf_i386 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i386linux < 1257155464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not -V < 1257155466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try < 1257155468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld --help < 1257155473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just --verbose :P < 1257155485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--verbose it is < 1257155498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it is the same as -V < 1257155501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that dumps the entire default linker script it seems < 1257155505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1257155508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ld --verbose != ld -V < 1257155511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my tests < 1257155514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's dumping the script too < 1257155515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure with arguments < 1257155529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--verbose dumps linker script, -V doens't < 1257155532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't* < 1257155533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1257155545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -v, --version Print version information < 1257155545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -V Print version and emulation information < 1257155545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"attempt to open /usr/local/lib/pcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/0.9.9/lib//libc.a failed" < 1257155549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE STUPID AND YOU SHOULD FEEL STUPID < 1257155551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --verbose Output lots of information during link < 1257155566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pcc is doing something strange with the arguments? < 1257155574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1257155577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm pretty sure it must have passed the full path for that to happen < 1257155580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it should surely then look at the next directory < 1257155584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely -lc < 1257155629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257155632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it goes like: < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/binutils-bin/2.18/../../lib/libc.so failed < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/binutils-bin/2.18/../../lib/libc.a failed < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib64/libc.so failed < 1257155639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1257155648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/lib64/libc.so succeeded < 1257155648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opened script file /usr/lib64/libc.so < 1257155652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /lib64/libc.so.6 succeeded < 1257155657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib64/libc.so.6 < 1257155675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to get ld to tell me what arguments it'd getting? < 1257155765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm *looks* < 1257155779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1257155805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make ld a shell script that prints args then call the real ld < 1257155817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work at the very least < 1257155819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be my second choice. < 1257155821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just LD=echo < 1257155859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work uggh < 1257155860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh < 1257155913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strace < 1257155914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace it is always an option. < 1257155919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1257155921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah beat you to it! < 1257155921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rrrr, AnMaster's too fast. < 1257155921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE BEEN REVEALED < 1257155927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, fizzie: I KNEW YOU WERE THE SAME < 1257155932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is just major trolling me with AnMaster < 1257155937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you scoundrel! < 1257155942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've just stopped at "strace" without bothering with the trailing part. < 1257155943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you got that backwards < 1257155952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fizzie doesn't annoy me. < 1257155959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the whole point < 1257155963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to confuse you < 1257155967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep, man. < 1257155986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trolling by niceness < 1257156009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do that some more; it's devastating. < 1257156027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace + ncurses = LOL WUT < 1257156056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh is this in cmake? < 1257156061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cmake instad of ccmake < 1257156062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1257156064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did < 1257156067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set CC=pcc before < 1257156068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1257156070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257156075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path to pcc if it isn't in path < 1257156090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and use the follow forks mode < 1257156099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it won't tell you anything useful < 1257156100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what flag's that < 1257156116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace -f < 1257156117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1257156124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f -- follow forks, -ff -- with output into separate files < 1257156124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-F -- attempt to follow vforks, -h -- print help message < 1257156136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee hueg spew to my console. < 1257156139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is for weenies. < 1257156163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, -o is often a good idea for strace too. < 1257156172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1257156179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in this case probably -ff < 1257156185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there will be lots of forks < 1257156214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do -f; you can grep a single file just as easily as multiple files. < 1257156225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1257156241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "attempt to open /usr/local/lib/pcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/0.9.9/lib//libc.a failed" <-- last solution: symlink that to the right file? < 1257156254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about no :P < 1257156262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw your tripplet would be different < 1257156266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no linux-gnu < 1257156267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripppppppppppppplet. < 1257156272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah. < 1257156276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice typo indeed < 1257156277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be i686-pc-linux-newlib. < 1257156284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: better trippplet < 1257156300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trippppy, man." < 1257156303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does the executable format go in a full whateverlet? < 1257156306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the arch? < 1257156348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? It's executing /usr/local/bin/ld. < 1257156362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is? < 1257156364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which uh, doesn't exist < 1257156368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does -f follow vforks? < 1257156372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1257156373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well < 1257156374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1257156375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need -F for that < 1257156378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's a vfork() here < 1257156380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1257156384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does -F follow fork()s or do i need both < 1257156389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" -F -- attempt to follow vforks, -h -- print help message" < 1257156392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure < 1257156394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe both < 1257156396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do both < 1257156408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the local one fails < 1257156410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes /bin < 1257156410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh wait < 1257156412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page: < 1257156413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then /usr/bin < 1257156414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -F This option is now obsolete and it has the same functionality as -f. < 1257156416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1257156417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1257156418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1257156421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1257156471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks for libc.so and .a in the pcc dir, then /usr/i686{...}/lib/libc.{so,a} < 1257156475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then local- libc.so < 1257156477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then local-libc.a < 1257156478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /lib < 1257156481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /usr/lib .so < 1257156488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which succeeds < 1257156491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finds the script < 1257156502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then goes t o /usr/lib/libc.so, um, again? whatever < 1257156519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes to /lib/libc.so.6 which works (!) < 1257156529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what causes the error? < 1257156540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it reads something into a buffer containing "the 'gets' function is dangerous[…]" xD < 1257156560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh well I don't use it. It probably just reads a section listing bad stuff. < 1257156562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes to /usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a, no fucking clue why < 1257156567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for warnings < 1257156573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a exists? < 1257156588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the local-libc is
< 1257156591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then local- libc.so < 1257156591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then local-libc.a < 1257156592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local < 1257156593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both? < 1257156596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257156601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it goes to /lib/ld-linux.so.2 < 1257156603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space one? < 1257156608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????? < 1257156609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, expected for parths < 1257156612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts* < 1257156620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime linker < 1257156623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go < 1257156625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257156626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably dlopen()ing < 1257156628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257156628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1257160101 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257161999 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257162149 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257163343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1257163359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1257163438 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257163532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers the differences between the ubuntu installer and the netbsd installer.
< 1257163590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the netbsd installer is asking me more questions than even the ubuntu installer in expert mode on that alternative cd did.. < 1257163628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh like this: "Please choose the password cipher to use. NetBSD can be configured to use either the DES, MD5, Blowfish or SHA1 schemes." < 1257163685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'If you are upgrading and would like to keep configuration unchanged, choose the last option "do not change".' < 1257163697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why can't it check that itself btw...) < 1257164911 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257166405 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257166407 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257166574 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257168719 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1257168816 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257168819 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257169583 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257169730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite see how the installer is supposed to check whether the user wants to change something or not except by asking the user, like it's doing there. < 1257169880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, you have to select one of them on first install. So giving an option to not change on a new install is weird < 1257169884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is meant for upgrades < 1257169900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it also asks you if you *want* to see the root password < 1257169906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if you wouldn't < 1257169943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for cryptanalysts that want a can-I-break-it test where they can't cheat. (Okay, so not really.) < 1257169967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257170036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh; "2 November 2009: Notification of accepted applications" was promised, but I haven't received any emails yet. Certainly there's still many hours of 2 Nov remaining, but still. < 1257170308 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257170450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for what? < 1257170488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my thesis research funding thing. < 1257170522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257170544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you suspect you weren't accpted? < 1257170567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257170642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suspect otherwise, based on very unofficial hush-hush rumours from my super²visor (who was in the graduate school board meeting where these things were designed); I guess they're just lazy about official announcements. < 1257170665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A super²visor is a supervisor's supervisor, of course.) < 1257170690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/designed/decided/; thinko. < 1257171560 0 :Jaykul[AFK]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul < 1257171633 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257178474 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-199.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257178980 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-53-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257179524 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257179666 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257179932 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257181359 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257182725 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257182795 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-11.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257182929 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257183210 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257183604 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257183679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[125244.889404] ACPI Warning (nseval-0177): Excess arguments - method [BEEP] needs 1, found 2 [20080926] <-- huh? < 1257183734 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257183761 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257183898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257184243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1, my reaction exactly < 1257184260 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, do you know what it says? < 1257184284 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1257184326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, I read it, if that is what you mean < 1257184329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I found it < 1257184331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-acpi-devel%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg01770.html < 1257184334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems relevant < 1257184360 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257184413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however my thinkpad is not listed in that quirk table < 1257184424 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them? < 1257184451 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257184452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should. Day after tomorrow though. Bit busy currently. Large test tomorrow at university < 1257184455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1257185719 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257186458 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257186538 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257188493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, BasiliskII; http://zem.fi/~fis/mac.png < 1257188620 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257188748 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie < 1257188830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ppc? < 1257188857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1257188866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, BasiliskII does 68k only. < 1257188867 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ppc? what? < 1257188869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is that Unix thing? network share? < 1257188879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or some sort of "guest additions"? < 1257188880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257188928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a BasiliskII-internal "show this Unix path as a volume" thing; I'm not quite sure how it's done on the MacOS side; it needs File System Manager V1.2 installed, though. < 1257188956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1257188977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what rom < 1257188977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257189020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh... no comment, due to not exactly owning a 68k-suitable Mac right now. < 1257189035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, you could google. You ask so many questions that we just end up ignoring them as it is < 1257189046 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257189047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want it too < 1257189053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257189065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only have a "newworld" mac < 1257189072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was from http://files.oldos.org/files/macdl/quadra650.rom < 1257189126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and system 7.5.3? < 1257189136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have a cd with that for PPC around < 1257189149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5.something I mean < 1257189173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5.3 from Apple's site. < 1257189187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they made it public? < 1257189188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257189193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/ < 1257189197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257189233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and http://w1.312.comhem.se/~u31227643/macboot.img.gz for a boot floppy image. < 1257189253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, smi.bin < 1257189256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hm < 1257189300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That macboot.img is the System 7.5 "Network Access Disk"; it's just that Apple's disk image of it is StuffIt'd with a reasonably new version, something macunpack on Linux doesn't read. Of course if you have a system that can run real StuffIt, that's not a problem. < 1257189308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting when removing the file from that last url < 1257189313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% I would trust it < 1257189320 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257189344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, depends. How new? I have one with OS 9... < 1257189353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a PITA however < 1257189358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how new, but that sounds new enough. < 1257189401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And .smi.bin is a very good format; you can use the hfsutils tools to get the MacBinary file into a HFS disk image, then attach that into whatever emulator you use for running MacOS, and there the .smi files are automagically mountable. (Of course you need something to boot from, like that network access disk image.) < 1257189631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no md5sums file < 1257189643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much to expect I guess < 1257189649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no resource fork issues? < 1257189675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not during the installation. Some problems with the provided Glider 4 zip, though. < 1257189682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1257189689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about glider pro? < 1257189692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work on that < 1257189695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it need ppc? < 1257189697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too new. :p < 1257189713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "too new, not interested". < 1257189716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, damn. So basically useless. tried that shoehorn? < 1257189724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257189725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257189734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257189734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it might be PPC-only, too, since it runs on OS X and OS 9 only. < 1257189743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not shoehorn < 1257189743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257189744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver < 1257189754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there are those "fat binaries" < 1257189760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both PPC and 68k < 1257189770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like the universal binaries these days < 1257189791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess. I don't have OS 9, anyway. < 1257189825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, except maybe as the "Classic" thing on the PPC OS X iBook. < 1257189856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, I could then just run it under OS X on the iBook, it's a supported system and all. Where's the fun in that? < 1257189933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would bring down fungot wouldn't it? < 1257189937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH WHERE IS fungot?! < 1257189950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The web server laptop is still not the iBook. < 1257189959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that Pentium M I pasted flags from the other day. < 1257189971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess fungot died in that Freenode messup too. < 1257190012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAW >>> ERROR :Closing Link: momus.zem.fi (Nick collision from syn.) <<< < 1257190015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? does it quit or reconnect in that case? < 1257190027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it dies if the SOCK 'R' operation fails. < 1257190042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so why didn't your service supervisor restart it? < 1257190050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daemontools or such < 1257190052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe inittab < 1257190056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't run it under one? < 1257190062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not :P < 1257190077 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257190078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like the obvious thing < 1257190105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if it is on ubuntu you could write an upstart script for it < 1257190172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relatively messy Debian virtual-machine thing, and I'm not interested enough to play with it that much; there's a lot to fix, the ignore settings still aren't persisted, for one thing. < 1257190244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests cfunge under netbsd
< 1257190247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configuring atm < 1257190313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Glider 4 zip seems to have the resource forks saved in that OS X thing, with a __MACOSX folder containing ._foo files for each foo file. The "macstream" utility I have can do some sort of AppleShare → MacBinary conversion (then I could stuff the MacBinary data into the HFS disk with hfsutils), and as far as I know that's sort-of the AppleShare format, but it just says "Short file X" for the zero-length data files X, where all the real meat is in < 1257190313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the ._X resource fork. < 1257190361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that should prove that cfunge is portable. Because if it runs on netbsd it implies that it is likely it will run on all platforms netbsd supports (I know it works on sparc already and ppc, so endian issues would be unlikely). And if it runs on all platforms that netbsd supports it runs on everything < 1257190367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by reduction I believe? < 1257190374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1257190408 0 :serp!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257190423 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this channel? < 1257190435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language about esoteric programming languages < 1257190444 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o i c < 1257190446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm why isn't that in topic any more) < 1257190459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, you were going here for the other sort? < 1257190476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens every few month ;) < 1257190491 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I like esoteric languages < 1257190493 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your favorite? < 1257190502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge and intercal. < 1257190522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use genisoimage (mkisofs) to make a HFS CD image, I think that tool had a really crazy list of supported formats. That feels a bit silly though. < 1257190522 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like befunge < 1257190526 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard about intercal < 1257190547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal would the the archetypical one. Since it was basically the first one < 1257190550 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257190568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that it is on topic all the time.) < 1257190573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the channel I mean) < 1257190584 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1257190597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all easily distracted perhaps? < 1257190602 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1257190605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I got cfunge to compile under netbsd < 1257190611 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like esoteric languages < 1257190667 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it's the serp < 1257190681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you know him? < 1257190690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh .se. Hej < 1257190706 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hej! < 1257190706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp: som du ser finns det andra svenskar här också :D < 1257190715 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257190736 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :och en norrman (oerjan) som dyker upp ibland < 1257190881 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :är alla svenskar? < 1257190896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yay, http://zem.fi/~fis/glider.png < 1257190901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nee, typ bara vi och AnMaster < 1257190904 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257190906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange. I had to use "ftp http://..." to download over http < 1257190907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this < 1257190915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just so completely stupid < 1257190925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Firefly too < 1257190945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I keep to English in order to ensure others can read it) < 1257190958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling OS X didn't include wget by default, but had a FTP client that could speak HTTP; at least somewhere I've done ftp http://... too. < 1257190968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thought it was BW? < 1257190979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, netbsd? < 1257190989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was that, I haven't used NetBSD in ages. < 1257191006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And there's a 16-color mode too. (It asked on startup whether I want to switch to 2-color or 16-color mode.) < 1257191029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cfunge turns out to work better on netbsd than on openbsd < 1257191030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"genisoimage -o ../glider_4.iso -hfs --osx-double ." got me a .iso image that had the correct resource forks. < 1257191050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1257191249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, where do you know serp from btw? < 1257191294 0 :ampleyfly!n=ampleyfl@fritz.lysator.liu.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257191302 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: from IRC < 1257191307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, seems cfunge passes mycology on netbsd too. Apart from some minor differences for FPSP/FPDP < 1257191311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, freenode? < 1257191318 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the same place as ampleyfly here, actually < 1257191321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: E says asin(2) is 0.000000 (actually complex: NaN) < 1257191327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c++.se on quakenet < 1257191329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect bug in netbsd asin here < 1257191335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I remember openbsd used to have the same bug < 1257191348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if I'd just suck less in that game, heh. < 1257191350 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ampleyfly and me made a esoteric language for a course. unfortunately the report is in Swedish. some examples are on the last page: http://www-und.ida.liu.se/~jakfr986/b4ch.pdf < 1257191406 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similair to befunge in 4 dimensions < 1257191423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1257191431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, there is already n-dimensional befunge < 1257191435 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :) < 1257191439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. more than 3D is uncommon but... < 1257191447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, so what befunge version did you use? 98? < 1257191461 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a befunge... we just borrowed some ideas frm there < 1257191467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, at university? Huh how did you get that past < 1257191487 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was for an intro course in lisp < 1257191493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vilken utbildning? < 1257191506 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :datateknik på LiTH < 1257191510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1257191533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dataingengör? Eller någon annan variant? < 1257191541 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :civilingenjör < 1257191543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257191608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eget web utrymme huh < 1257191624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION undrar om man kan få det vid örebro universitet också
< 1257191641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not providing a public_html-alike directory sounds pretty strange. < 1257191663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well maybe they do. But since it is windows mostly where the hell would you look < 1257191680 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\wwwroot! < 1257191697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, mmm unlikely :P < 1257191713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, well, that's another thing. For the record, our place gives students a "60 MB soft-quota, 100 MB hard-quota" public_html directory at users.tkk.fi or some-such. < 1257191742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hm, and I have 52M in use. That's curious.) < 1257191797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG format screenshots from the Eurovision Song Contest and everything else that's very study-related. < 1257191840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33M of PNG files containing different graphized versions of fungot, also. :p < 1257191840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh well. guess that saved me. < 1257191860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Er, were you in some sort of danger, then? < 1257191861 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " oh wow this is" < 1257191883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1257191883 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1257191887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1257191907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It resets to the irc style whenever it gets rebooted. < 1257191910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257191931 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257191947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, png? try advpng and optipng < 1257191952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should reduce large ones < 1257191958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1257191958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1257191967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but that is not the uni one is it? < 1257191988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's my own place. < 1257192057 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257192064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~htkallas/euroviisukoodi1.png is at the university web-space. < 1257192093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They showed that bit during the Eurovision contest between-songs-nonsense-videos one year. < 1257192112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It makes very little sense.) < 1257192128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also ...2.png and 3.png.) < 1257192182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh? < 1257192185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seriously? < 1257192208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The "|YLE|TV2" in the corner is the logo of the local broadcast company. < 1257192235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume someone was just told to "write some sort of code-like stuff here". < 1257192237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm did it look like it was a screenshot or a photo of a screen < 1257192261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean it isn't something like a bluescreen on a public display? < 1257192302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be explained by all those errors < 1257192305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the surroundings; I think they showed a guy at a keyboard, then focused on the monitor showing that bit. < 1257192319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, it isn't java < 1257192343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is quite a lot of whitespace < 1257192648 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they chose to write it in Eclipse, which highlights it all as erroneous < 1257192873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is perfectly valid (if useless) Plof. < 1257192908 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257192938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh? < 1257192949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it has if go to () ? < 1257192957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(third screenshot iirc) < 1257193374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social networking! http://twitter.com/big_ben_clock (Link courtesy of ineiros.) < 1257193470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what version of that emulator did you use? < 1257193486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever was packaged in Debian. Let's see. < 1257193504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9.20070407-4 according to the package. < 1257193512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257193521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Basilisk II V1.0 by Christian Bauer et al." according to the program itself. < 1257193528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to find anything newer than 2005 < 1257193551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257193555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newer than 2006 I meant < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : basilisk2 (0.9.20070407-1) unstable; urgency=low < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * New upstream CVS snapshot. < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : + Bugfixes and improvements for 64bit host archs. < 1257193601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it's built from. < 1257193601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1257193921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what mac model id did you select in basilisk? < 1257193940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and CPU type? < 1257193959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quadra 900 (MacOS 8.x)" and 68040, since those were mentioned in a howto; seemed to work. < 1257193961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If is a function, and go and to could be perfectly valid expressions in context. < 1257193981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the third one is not valid Plof. < 1257193982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you compiled the JIT stuff in, 68040 and enabling JIT might be a good idea too. I didn't bother; it's fast enough anyway. < 1257193992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not without some crazy PlofBNF hacks, that is) < 1257194040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have tried sheepshaver too, but no-one seems to have bothered to add that to the Debian archives, and I really don't have *any* use for it, so I can't see why to compile it from sources. < 1257194040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1257194064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, BNF hacks? basically extending the compiler? < 1257194075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is cheating then < 1257194075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Yes. < 1257194086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or can you someone define it in the code? < 1257194087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257194090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257194091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to be fair, Plof is *designed to do that*. < 1257194098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need to recompile the compiler for it? < 1257194104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257194115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257194123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the RAM size? < 1257194137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses 512 could be too much
< 1257194140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 64 megs should be enough for everyone. (I think that was visible in my screenshot too.) < 1257194148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grammer of Plof is defined inside of a Plof file. < 1257194172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, using a bootstrap grammer defined in bytecode) < 1257194254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie link to the tutorial? < 1257194278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If I can find the browser tab. < 1257194285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, history? < 1257194291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm rather confused now < 1257194402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://wiki.oldos.org/Mac/68kEmulator -- but it's pretty windows-oriented and I think at some parts also contradictory. I just adapted a bit. (Substituted that existing macboot.img for the whole stuffit+floppy-writing nonsense, and hfsutils command-line tools for HFVExplorer.) < 1257194425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where do I put in the floppy image to use < 1257194445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this system lacks a real floppy drive < 1257194445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/.basilisk_ii_prefs "floppy /path/to/image" < 1257194455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. < 1257194477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The configuration dialogs for the X version are a bit limited. < 1257194502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much < 1257194508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively run it with "BasiliskII --floppy /path/to" for a one-time use. < 1257194510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and cd? < 1257194520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cdrom", but do you need that for something? < 1257194530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed it for the Glider 4 image only. :p < 1257194560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the shared with unix thingy? < 1257194579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the config dialog calls "Unix Root" in the Volumes tab. < 1257194590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"extfs" in the config file. < 1257194605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't that show up from the floppy < 1257194614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, < 1257194620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I get the OS image there < 1257194623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for system 7 < 1257194631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The floppy doesn't have that FSM 1.2 thing for the shared-drive. < 1257194638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to copy the .smi and .part files to your HD image. < 1257194659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, formatting it first with HFS+? < 1257194662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or plain HFS? < 1257194682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain HFS, if you're running System 7. But you can format it by booting from the floppy. < 1257194690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll automagically suggest formatting the disk. < 1257194698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess hfsutils has a format tool too, though. < 1257194718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can create an image file with dd, or in the BasiliskII configuration dialog.) < 1257194723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, removing the binhex thingy? < 1257194734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, figured out how to create the HD no issue < 1257194761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get rid of the MacBinary encoding (it's .bin, not .hqx) when copying files from Unix to the HFS image with hfsutils. < 1257194793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like hmount + hmkdir inst + hcopy -m .../*.bin :inst + humount. < 1257194795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hcopy? < 1257194814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that needs root? < 1257194824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1257194828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't. < 1257194845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it store the state < 1257194849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit mtools-like (or CVS "login" like) in that it maintains a "current volume and directory" in ~/.hcwd. < 1257194882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm not sure whether mtools does that, maybe not. < 1257194884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hcopy: "System_7.5.3_19of19.part.bin": not a directory < 1257194885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1257194893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the destination path too. < 1257194893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hcopy -m .../*.bin" seems wrong < 1257194896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257194900 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257194900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: or :inst or something. < 1257194913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(":" for current-directory, ":inst" if you hmkdir'd a place for the files.) < 1257194918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and then just the installers from Mac HD? < 1257194962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tutorial talks about copying the system dir < 1257194964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that needed < 1257194977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; I think the installer will create one. < 1257194980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can if you want. < 1257195011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, but really, I don't think it matters much. < 1257195089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both cases you should be able to just run the .smi file on the HD, and then the "Install System software" app from the virtual CD it mounts on the desktop. < 1257195153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also did a Custom Install with some pseudo-sensible software selections, even though the tutorial warns that the 7.5.5 update won't work with it; I'm not that interested in the update anyway. < 1257195193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yay finally I found a use for 4 GB RAM. ATM FreeBSD, NetBSD VMs are running. And this Basilisk II < 1257195208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both the *BSD VMs are heavily loaded < 1257195211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was a quick install < 1257195229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 7.5.3 shutdown and startup are horribly quick too. < 1257195246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on modern hardware yes < 1257195264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also haven't tried networking yet. It needs a silly custom kernel module for "share a physical Ethernet device" networking, but ethertap virtual-networking might work without that too. < 1257195296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit suspicious to whether that works any more, if they haven't updated it since 2007. < 1257195307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh now I get a "unimplemented trap" error < 1257195308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257195402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be some extension, perhaps; the tutorial notes that "A/Rose under Networking and Extensions" is incompatible with Basilisk. < 1257195456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 1024x600 . I wonder what sort of wide screen that is < 1257195477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. Missed that < 1257195484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the extension solved it < 1257195485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been running it with the classic 512x384 screen. < 1257195522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too small on a high dpi screen < 1257195526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small anyway < 1257195527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1257195593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could maybe play around with the networking, but there aren't *that* many interesting 68k-mac Interwebby programs. iCab 2.9.9, IE 3.something, Netscape 3 as far as browsers go. < 1257195638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh that puzzle < 1257195644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does this os have apple script? < 1257195656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1257195662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1257195663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1257195664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1257195670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some AppleScript-related things in the installer, yes. < 1257195692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257195709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if I could get norton speeddisk the defragment thing to run on this < 1257195711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1257195713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was PPC < 1257195727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that iso of the game you mentioned. Where? < 1257195740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed too messy. surely you could share? < 1257195752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was released without charge now < 1257195800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/glider_4.iso possibly. I guess you could run BasiliskII as "BasiliskII --cdrom /path/to/glider_4.iso" for a one-time copy-to-HD use. < 1257195842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is one SMALL iso < 1257195860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but took 20 seconds to download < 1257195866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96 KB/s < 1257195871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your connection sucks? < 1257195879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outgoing speed, sure. < 1257195889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what consumer ADSL is like, you know. < 1257195892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw those --floppy and --cdrom seems to be saved < 1257195904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I wondered about that. < 1257195973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what keys to rebuild desktop sort of thing? < 1257195980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1 Mbps outwards; theoretically that should get something like 122 kB/s at most. < 1257196033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about that. < 1257196086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even quite know how it maps command/option to ctrl/alt. (Probably just like that.) < 1257196135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On PC-style keyboards, "Alt" is the Mac "Command" key, while the "Windows" key is the Mac "Option" key.". Well, that's what the README says. It might not work out like that. < 1257196152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1257196170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was it on macs? < 1257196172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1257196179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-Command? < 1257196203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command-option during booting or something. < 1257196215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might've been some messing-around with extensions though. < 1257196221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interwebs probably know more than me. < 1257197465 0 :scorchsaber!n=scorchsa@user65-127.vicres.utoronto.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257197513 0 :scorchsaber!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257197996 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257198250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you manage to get that system 7.5.5 update to work? < 1257198259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't try. < 1257198269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, makes disk image unbootable for me < 1257198273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not needed for Glider 4. :p < 1257198285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you do the Easy Install thing? < 1257198302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, custom install < 1257198951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then. < 1257198965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tutorial does say that only Easy Install works with the 7.5.5 update. < 1257199107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257199110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that < 1257199963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257203690 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257204685 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257206137 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257206255 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257206264 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257206989 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257207028 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257207037 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257207106 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257207277 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257207334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw a glimpse of the AW SDK, and I'm horrified < 1257207347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but the http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Aw_object_click#Usage makes my eyes bleed < 1257207362 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257207413 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257207811 0 :Jerry!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257207824 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257207852 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest90640 < 1257208048 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257208876 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257211152 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257211313 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257213996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257214847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257217744 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hofstadter < 1257217752 0 :Hofstadter!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AUGUR < 1257217774 0 :AUGUR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1257218260 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257221455 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257221856 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257223387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd has contributed no funny to the world today < 1257223396 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it HAS contributed a wonderful data visualization technique < 1257223397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://infosthetics.com/archives/2009/11/visualizing_movie_characters.html#comments < 1257223430 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I saw that < 1257223440 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, I thought of that like, two days before < 1257223441 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1257223459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you follow up your thought by drawing it out and posting it to your webcomic? < 1257223467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU RANDALL MONROE?! < 1257223470 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257223472 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1257223482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257223491 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why has sourceforge gotten so bad < 1257223492 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I suspect he at least takes more than two days to do each webcomic? maybe? < 1257223510 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/timelines/ < 1257223511 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT < 1257223533 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would hpe it does not take more than two days to do the comics < 1257223539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing a show theyre released every two days! < 1257223544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: EXCEPT HE USE MOVIE LOTR AND NOT THE NOVEL < 1257223569 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, coppro < 1257223582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: shut up < 1257223585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even know < 1257223585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257223592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Saruman dies in Isengard < 1257223600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257223613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the book, he goes to the Shire < 1257223650 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257223651 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257223656 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not read the book < 1257223658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dont care < 1257223661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1257223676 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s) < 1257223678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cardinal sin of eekery < 1257223683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+g < 1257223708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1257223711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i care < 1257223715 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have only read The Hobbit < 1257223721 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reading is limited to non-fiction < 1257223729 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also forgot to return that book to the library, several years ago < 1257223731 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops! < 1257223732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant stay interested in fiction writing < 1257223746 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a cardinal sin, then, but still bad < 1257223749 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, augur, I've had trouble reading fiction lately < 1257223849 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go to sleep < 1257223850 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1257223880 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257225296 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257228472 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1257230692 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders how to compile Unlambda.
< 1257230708 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To compile Unlambda, one must first compile to Unlambda. < 1257230744 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try in lua < 1257230761 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua has a function that compiles a program from a string < 1257230780 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so translate the unlambda program into lua and run that < 1257230813 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neh. < 1257230965 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who not < 1257230968 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1257231022 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to compile it into a language into which it is not that easy to compile stuff like Unlambda. < 1257231043 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to compile between Unlambda and BF. < 1257231137 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'd rather come up with some languages that can actually be compiled nicely. < 1257231361 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BD in unlamda sounds feasible < 1257231378 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda in bf sounds pretty damn hard though :D < 1257231404 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the esolangs Wikipedia has articles about are LOLCODE, Befunge, Brainfuck, Chef, FALSE, the OISC gang, Piet, Shakespeare, Whitespace, INTERCAL, and Taxi. < 1257231405 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves, what, tail call recursion, garbage collecting < 1257231440 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very variable size data < 1257231586 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to ignore all of those but Befunge, Brainfuck, FALSE, and OISC. < 1257231631 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257231681 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda is my favorite by far < 1257231703 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by brainfuck probably < 1257231748 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm going to add /// and Unlambda. < 1257231757 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm going to toss FALSE. < 1257231905 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm going to refine OISC into Subleq. < 1257231949 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about rule 110 automata < 1257231973 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that later. < 1257231988 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257232033 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257232110 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that makes the list Befunge, Brainfuck, Subleq, ///, Unlambda. A fun bunch. < 1257232961 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257233004 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257233562 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257235199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257235200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257235303 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257236558 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257237782 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257238908 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257244589 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B137580.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257244740 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257245057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this website has the stupidest validation ever < 1257245102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, every letter you type in the forms, it sends off an AJAX request to the server to verify what you wrote < 1257245122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun, if you type more than a few characters in a second, it thinks you're trying to DOS it with all those AJAX requests < 1257245157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it doesn't allow punctuation marks at all < 1257245171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in textboxes where you'd expect them to be used, such as "how did you hear about us" < 1257245198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why answer the form then? < 1257245202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or what website? < 1257245208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: trying to create an account, and opencores.org < 1257245225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that website about? < 1257245230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: open-source hardware < 1257245239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. File a bug report about the web form then < 1257245271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is open source I would expect them to not just ignore it < 1257245271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nowhere obvious to file it, there isn't even an obvious contact address < 1257245277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257245291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website doesn't /act/ open-source < 1257245301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://opencores.org/opencores,contact ? < 1257245303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's made by people used to closed hardware support that don't get open source < 1257245314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1257245324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, large company behind it? < 1257245327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, their FAQ is GPL < 1257245333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so almost certainly, they don't really get what they're doing < 1257245339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha indeed < 1257245346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why create an account then? < 1257245355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you need one to download from it < 1257245361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their account-creation system isn't even automated < 1257245364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems it was sent off to a human < 1257245378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this FAQ is unusable < 1257245386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows the answers to the questions on-hover < 1257245403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and it does that even with js turned off < 1257245405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that when you stop using one question and have a look at the next, the question moves so it's no longer under your mouse and collapses again < 1257245407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means they used css for it < 1257245423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place is like a mix of best practices and worst practices... < 1257245432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, best in what way? < 1257245453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: things like graceful fallback for no JS < 1257245459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1257245467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OpenCores reserves the right to charge for advertising or SPAM sent to any mailing list" < 1257245467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries lynx
< 1257245508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. not very good in lynx. But the menu looks ok < 1257245516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too little spacing between headers though < 1257245526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like no blank line between paragraphs < 1257245536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of their own lists I assume < 1257245541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't say that < 1257245543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm. How strange < 1257245547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more amused at the naivety of it all < 1257245614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I have to leave soon. To take the bus. Test in discrete math this afternoon. < 1257245619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was that the right word < 1257245622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"discrete" I mean < 1257245637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1257245653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1257245655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two words in English that are very similar, but the same word in Swedish < 1257245660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"discrete" = opposite of continuous < 1257245665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1257245669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"discreet" = without causing a fuss about it < 1257245673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257245685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same word for both in Swedish + very similar in English < 1257245700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can understand my confusion about the terminology in English < 1257245755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye. < 1257246010 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257252372 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257252456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:43:07 xkcd has contributed no funny to the world today < 1257252456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:43:16 but it HAS contributed a wonderful data visualization technique < 1257252483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com < 1257252484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was about my thought too - i was annoyed there was no way to zoom in :D < 1257252496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too lazy to actually focus a web browser to go there
< 1257252500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and clicks on a link in IRC instead < 1257252534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming this was actually yesterday's xkcd - checking now < 1257252618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now there is a zoom < 1257252728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a zoom yesterday too; at least yesterday our time zone, maybe not when you visited it. < 1257252743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i managed somehow to miss it < 1257252771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :657 is pretty impressive < 1257252775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have been confused by the hover text < 1257252776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well; when the title is "Movie Narrative Charts", you can't really complain that much about using the movie LOTR. < 1257253020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny is the ones at the bottom right, I think < 1257253172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The labels in the Jurassic Park graphs did make me smile; especially the "must go faster" one. It is very evocative of the scene. < 1257255143 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-6d0ede7d9d8b0b03 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257255934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1257257890 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257258318 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257259387 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257259663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You dont have permissions to view this page. You might need to login or your account might be disabled. < 1257259667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice ambiguous sentence, there < 1257260173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun, someone's storing tarballs (well, .zip files) in svn, rather than the original files < 1257260176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, lecture time < 1257261084 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1257261747 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257262104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257262397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left the lecture halfway through, it was that bad < 1257262399 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257262408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 10 seconds before halfway, I didn't quite time it correctly < 1257262507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://abc.go.com/shows/v/ < 1257262512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish this would just happen already < 1257263447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257264370 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257264623 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257264786 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257266963 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257266982 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257268406 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257268514 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257269475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, there is a way to zoom in. click the image < 1257270664 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257270740 0 :Guest90640!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1257270760 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257270832 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257271463 0 :Asztal_!n=asztal@host86-156-193-221.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257271647 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257271654 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1257271724 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257271832 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: i didnt say that. < 1257271857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed. oerjan had stopped quoting at that point < 1257271860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry didn't notice < 1257271940 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257272515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257272518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sillyboy < 1257273661 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257273856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257274109 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257274265 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257274315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what was the name of that chroot thing you used? < 1257274582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0x7f6e0c0081b8] v4l2 demux error: cannot open video device '/dev/video1' (No space left on device) < 1257274582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit strange error from a video device. (I'm sure it has some sort of silly meaning, but anyway.) < 1257274600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257274750 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, that was really strange < 1257274760 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the applications I have segfaulted, then the kernel paniced < 1257274768 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syslog is in the wrong format and talks about a Trojan < 1257274771 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs a virus scan
< 1257274829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257274830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, on nix? < 1257274832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257274838 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux, yes < 1257274840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohci_hcd 0000:00:12.1: leak ed ffff8800378152d0 (#81) state 2 < 1257274840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb 4-2: usb_submit_urb() failed, error -28 < 1257274840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be usb_submit_urb that returns ENOSPC. Don't know why. < 1257274840 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1257274845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a trojan? < 1257274850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what exactly < 1257274868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and time for clean reinstall + restore files you can verify by hand from backups < 1257274875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 350720:6cfac1d7dfe66763441977dc8bcaf41c:Trojan.Agent-116143 < 1257274885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that isn't the format syslog /should/ be in < 1257274890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think an actual trojan is unlikely < 1257274893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257274897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I'm wondering about is ClamAV going mad < 1257274904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and accidentally dumping part of its virus database into memory < 1257274913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and causing a panic, and that bit ended up getting saved to syslog < 1257274924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about all those other apps? < 1257274994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me paste the relevant pastebin section < 1257275031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1655187 < 1257275044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, I'm grepping the entire hard drive for "Trojan.Agent-", and also doing a virus scan < 1257275051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the relevant syslog section < 1257275121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my /theory/ is that ClamAV's virus database contains a line that looks like that, and that it somehow got dumped to sylog < 1257275144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to have two drivers for this webcam (sn9c102 and gspca_sonixj) of which only one works. Should make some rules to prioritize the working one in module-autoloading. < 1257275152 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257275176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would also run memtest btw < 1257275185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a while back < 1257275190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, again I mean. < 1257275193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few bitflips are unlikely to cause /that/ < 1257275201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kernel messed up big I suspect < 1257275201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think software bugs are more likely < 1257275209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same here < 1257275224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should try to reproduce and file a bug report < 1257275230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's even possible that the offending lines were added to the syslog by fsck < 1257275232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any kernel crash dump file? < 1257275237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where would it be? < 1257275252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh wait, fsck had to fix something that bad? < 1257275253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1257275259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran after I restarted it < 1257275266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cleaned up loads of inodes < 1257275270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would run, from a cd, some verifier tool < 1257275277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, what if the ext3 journal got corrupted? < 1257275282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to check that all packages have correct md5sum < 1257275287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see suggestion above < 1257275289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :livecd. Now < 1257275291 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257275312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also use smartctl in case disk is dying < 1257275317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have a relatively recent one on me < 1257275349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an older one could work. Point is, something that you can run a tool like debsums on (iirc you use a debian based distro? < 1257275385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palimpsest says the disk is fine < 1257275395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palimpsest? < 1257275405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI SMART-parameter extractor thing < 1257275440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, manually check the error log < 1257275447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartctl -l error /dev/sda < 1257275447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1257275449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1257275466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also look at -A (attributes) < 1257275469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have smartctl installed < 1257275469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -l selftest < 1257275479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would this Palimpsest read things then < 1257275487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way smartctl does, presumably < 1257275492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257275502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well look at the SMART error log and such < 1257275507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume your tool can < 1257275510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used it < 1257275551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to have an option to < 1257275685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds like a shit tool < 1257275700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was on here as part of the default distribution < 1257275709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's mostly meant for setting up RAIDs and fscking drives and so on < 1257275792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp /dev/urandom /tmp/chroot/dev < 1257275797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think that would work < 1257275798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1257275804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp doesn't copy the special file < 1257275818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result is: < 1257275822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same as) < 1257275832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /dev/urandom > /tmp/chroot/dev/urandom < 1257275959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use ls -l and mknod to do the same thing < 1257275974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if mknod can be used to escape from a chroot if you have root
< 1257275995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but more work < 1257276019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just trying to get su to work inside the chroot < 1257276027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can drop privs in there and run the thing I need < 1257276033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does su need /dev/urandom? < 1257276046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it is the dynamic linker that does. < 1257276052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap randomisation or something is my guess < 1257276063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens before several mprotect calls < 1257276066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :early on < 1257276069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to strace < 1257276092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which exact addresses varies < 1257276345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :su: Module is unknown < 1257276346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257276488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, argh ubuntu: su wants dbus (indirectly) < 1257276492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, a pam module does < 1257276644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAM makes things complex. Hooray. < 1257276736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# chroot /opt/chroot /bin/su foo < 1257276736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1257276736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ su - < 1257276736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :su: must be run from a terminal < 1257276740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two odd things < 1257276746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) it asked root for password < 1257276758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) it wanted to be run from a terminal the second time only < 1257276769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did that to test. su isn't suid in there < 1257276986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did that to run unstuff with no harm
< 1257276992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I don't trust that thing one bit < 1257277000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah this was in a VM on top of it < 1257277080 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257277240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's unstuff? < 1257277583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for working with *.sit < 1257277587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's closed source < 1257277600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only option there is on *nix though for recent versions of the file format < 1257277611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and *.sit is used on macs. mostly pre-OS X < 1257278122 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-9.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257278234 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257278299 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257278613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I got sheepshaver to boot as far as install cd for OS 9 at least < 1257278674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for some reason the disk still get the OS 7 look for the icon < 1257278676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1257278682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no it wasn't formatted there < 1257278709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the cd tells me it can't be used with this computer :/ < 1257279049 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257279134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well lets see if the 8.6 CD works < 1257279830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying. There's this composite-video (and mono-audio) "AV cable" for my camera, but the video output seems to be enabled only in playback mode. I could've used it as a much-better-sensor webcam; even blurry composite-video PAL is better than the horrible far-too-dark cheapo webcam otherwise. < 1257279890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manual says "Even if you set [VIDEO OUT] to [PAL], the output signal will still be NTSC in the recording mode", which sounds like there should be something going out in the other mode too, but that doesn't seem to be the case. < 1257280153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean there is no signal at all in the recording mode? < 1257280176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though manual says there will be? < 1257280180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257280202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, idea: use it, then a web cam on the LCD screen preview XD < 1257280248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the manual doesn't exactly say it very clearly, just that one sentence sort of implies it. On the other hand, when it talks about the TV out settings there's a "[playback mode only]" tag in those parts. < 1257280668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could be using some of the same DSP bits for both showing the moving preview picture on the LCD as well as doing the TV out video signal generation. At least I hope there's a sensible explanation like that; it would be pretty silly if it were just a completely unnecessary programmatic limitation, added in hopes of getting people to buy dedicated video cameras instead. < 1257280758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think the latter is more probable < 1257280771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meh." < 1257280831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying to set up some sort of video recording thing to see whether the cat does anything else than sleeping during the day when we're both at work.) < 1257281024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. seems "couldn't be installed on this computer" meant "do not emulate so much ram" < 1257281025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257281683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, installing OS 9 sure is a lot slower than installing OS 7 < 1257281699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw OS 9 cd did boot on 16 MB RAM but then refused to install < 1257281706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 MB was the upper limit < 1257282211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half a gigabyte is quite a lot. < 1257284804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1257284813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and... sheepshaver is buggy < 1257284815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much < 1257284818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashes a lot < 1257285201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there are very many alternatives. Rosetta is OS X -only and doesn't run the Classic environment anyway, PearPC doesn't emulate the necessary powermac bits, and I guess qemu's not very complete either, though it does have some powermac peripherals. (At least I can't find many references to running Mac OS with qemu-system-ppc.) < 1257285215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SheepShaver might work better on a powerpc arch, though. < 1257285320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though on Linux/PPC you could just run Mac-on-Linux.) < 1257285362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "mac on linux"? < 1257285377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257285382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/, you know. < 1257285390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit dead nowadays. < 1257285424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs Linux/PPC, Mac OS X or Mac OS 7.5.2 - 9.2.2 on a Linux/PPC host. < 1257285460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't do PowerPC emulation at all, so you can't run it on an Intel box, so I guess people have lost interest after Apple did the Intel switch. < 1257285499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it on that Performa, actually, and it seemed to work reasonably well. Haven't tried on the iBook, though. < 1257285546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I found a cd with norton utilities for mac < 1257285559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "symantec" mentioned there < 1257285567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so old < 1257285580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it has some disk checker and some disk defrag apps iirc < 1257285859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah can't get it to boot from a cd now :/ < 1257285866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just completely unable to < 1257285872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the OS is installed < 1257285876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't complain too much < 1257286037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it mostly seems that it is mostly stable when you mostly don't access that "Unix" thing < 1257286689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you could manage to get qemu-user to work, then you could do the MISC binary format support thing and get PPC binary emulation going... < 1257286708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so you can run mac binaries there? < 1257286716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, old mac games < 1257286717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1257286723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm interested in < 1257286726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1257286740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old? < 1257286748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, new enough to be PPC only < 1257286757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PearPC? < 1257286764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would need classic still < 1257286772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is PPC classic that is relevant here < 1257286775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm... < 1257286778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Ever played avernum? < 1257286784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly exile < 1257286794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaking tricky. < 1257286800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, avernum? < 1257286804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1257286804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else? < 1257286806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257286815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is "freaking tricky" then? < 1257286824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu-user-ppc and Mac-on-Linux is the only way I can think of to do it... < 1257286837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. sheepshaver kind of works < 1257286840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Run PPC non-Unix Mac binaries. < 1257286840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very unstable < 1257286842 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136E7F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257286872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for a copy of MPW
< 1257286885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/ < 1257286886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh look < 1257287009 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257287073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking slow download though < 1257287074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1257287091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, those have been released quite a while ago. < 1257287116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had them installed on the Performa, for example (I *do* keep talking about it, but it's your fault really); you get a reasonably shell-like thing with it. < 1257287136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a Make-alike, IIRC. < 1257287176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that too. < 1257287369 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257287445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1257287451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for rasonably < 1257287451 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257287455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably* < 1257287460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well could be debated < 1257287463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, see logs < 1257287466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link is in /topic < 1257287471 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257287488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, please please stop saying "what" or such as often < 1257287495 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1257287519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I completely forgot how it worked though < 1257287570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I do keep wondering why ftp downloads from apple.com are running at around 30 K/s < 1257287571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irritating < 1257287719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at 40 K/s now < 1257287930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any luck with networking in it? < 1257288340 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257288472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs. < 1257288484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now apple's ftp is messing up sometimes wanting login < 1257288487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and working randomly < 1257288641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257288656 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257288712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: debsums did find one file (and its manpage) that was wrong, but it was pdftoppm, in poppler-utils < 1257288715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reinstalled, anyway < 1257288734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manpage looked normal, so I think the wrong version got installed somehow < 1257289047 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257289635 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257290180 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257290185 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1257290611 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257290700 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257290826 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257290852 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257292053 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257294890 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257296684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plash < 1257297343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org:2888/ < 1257298944 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257298948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I surrender < 1257298952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int aw_create (char* universe_domain, int universe_port, void** instance) < 1257298973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AW SDK wants me to use a void pointer to refer to "instances" (not the OOP meaning) of bots < 1257299000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/multiple.htm < 1257299061 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257299138 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257299491 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org:2888/wiki/list -- just added :) < 1257299515 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet :) < 1257299528 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even works! :P < 1257299534 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1257299565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next step would be to write a wikicode "interpreter", so that standard wiki pages can be made without ripping ones brains out. < 1257299655 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has perl :P < 1257299663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And python. < 1257299664 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and php < 1257299681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just made a small improvement to the "new page" thingy) < 1257299996 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257300093 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257300763 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257302431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did somebody in here make wikify? < 1257302629 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am editing it < 1257302638 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1257302642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering where it came from. < 1257302644 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomesauce. < 1257302756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"SPOING" < 1257302893 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only resolves wiki links [[pagename title]] and converts linbreaks to
for now. http://codu.org:2888/wiki/wikify/foo < 1257302987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet. < 1257302994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make it ignore chebang lines? < 1257303005 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can be made the chebang line of a file :) < 1257303162 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1257303181 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooplah. < 1257303225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it has a few minor problems ^^ < 1257303244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://codu.org:2888/wiki/wikitest < 1257303255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably fix these, will just have to remember some Python is all :) < 1257303410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If not, you could make it into an executable format. < 1257303420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: Yeah, that chebang line won't work :P < 1257303457 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, multi-level shebang scripts isn't allowed? < 1257303468 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: It is allowed, but chebang lines have to start with / < 1257303479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I did /usr/bin/env wikify < 1257303645 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmf... I did make wikify make links using itself < 1257303696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... not ideal? :P I think I'd prefer chebangs to be the standard mechanism. Idonno *shrugs* < 1257303914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't matter, the whole idea is everybody can hack Hackiki to do whatever they want :P < 1257304007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue with that is that then when you're in wikify, you're sort of trapped, you can't have some wiki pages use wikify and some not. < 1257304012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not easily anyway) < 1257304275 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257304354 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1257304438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Plash is awesome.
< 1257304446 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Plash < 1257304462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plash.beasts.org/wiki/ < 1257304499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that the AW SDK makes him want to shoot himself
< 1257306486 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257308233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257308627 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a Hackiki-crawling script and put it on Hackiki. < 1257308714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do so? < 1257308820 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine I will. < 1257308845 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that his current big project is not more important.
< 1257308901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki already confuses me < 1257309198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or are two of us editing wikitest? :P < 1257309232 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added an extra pair of [ ] < 1257309238 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and | < 1257309260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually put the wikifying engine in /hackiki/libexec/wiki (which doesn't work right now for some reason) < 1257309266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So right now it's borkulous. < 1257309309 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked when I tried it. < 1257309342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hackiki/libexec/wiki: error while loading shared libraries: /hackiki/libexec/wiki: invalid ELF header < 1257309362 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env .wiki <-- that worked when I tried it < 1257309374 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I just moved that to /hackiki/libexec/wiki :P < 1257309384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1257309389 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll move it back, then I'll stop poking at it. < 1257309392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just accidentally clicked #!/usr/bin/env < 1257309396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out it's a registered channel < 1257309431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1257309453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*done* < 1257309460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: Poke away, I am no longer poking :P < 1257309858 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257309891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually stop poking. < 1257309894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a jerk like that. < 1257309897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW I'm done poking :P < 1257310207 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257310736 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257311270 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257311273 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. http://codu.org:2888/wiki/index < 1257311340 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... shortcut typo < 1257311360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ... seems to be hanging for me ... unless my tuberwebs are just slow. < 1257311470 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good thing when kswapd0 is taking up 100% CPU, right? :P < 1257311648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what to make of this swap thrashing ... < 1257311657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since nothing's using much memory. < 1257311709 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you restarted kswapd0? < 1257311731 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the whole system crash? < 1257311739 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. Not something I'm willing to do :P < 1257311793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe it's because my backup script is running right now and rsyncing all of codu! :P < 1257311851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1257311861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds like a preposterous theory < 1257311867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a virus < 1257311896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, somebody already hacked a virus into Hackiki. < 1257311899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some strain of H1N1 < 1257311903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, looks like I'll have to take down codu entirely. < 1257311909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I see all this ridiculousness on "t3h homosexuals" in Maine and Washington, I must admit: Canada is very, very tempting. < 1257311943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t3h homosexuals, eh. < 1257311948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Canada! Where homosexual rights were inadvertantly enshrined in our constitution 27 years ago - that's how forward-thinking we are! < 1257311954 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION falls asleep
< 1257311955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :D < 1257311987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stupid stupid shit like "The country of Scandinavia legalised gay marriage in 2004 -- suicide rates skyrocketed!" < 1257312010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"country of Scandinavia"... < 1257312018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: Scandinavia is not a country, no country in Scandinavia legalised gay marriage in 2004, and suicide rates did not skyrocket in 2004 in Scandinavia) < 1257312022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proper name is, of course, Scandinaviland. < 1257312046 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257312427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, still slow. < 1257312430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what's going on. < 1257312435 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mayhaps it's not me though :P < 1257312455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look, now it's fast. < 1257312456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1257312996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257313363 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257313379 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257313454 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257313459 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257313474 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257313495 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257313616 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257315969 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257317296 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257317924 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: Our difference of opinions w.r.t the .wiki script, crystallized: I want wiki pages to always be files in bin/, which has the caveat that all wiki pages that are conventional wiki pages are just scripts using bin/.wiki as a chebang line. I keep on changing .wiki to work that way, and you keep on changing .wiki to work under the assumption that wiki pages that use wiki syntax won't be in bin at all :P < 1257318577 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257321599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257321600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257323851 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257323924 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257323985 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257324533 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257326496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://codu.org:2888/ <-- hah < 1257326623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the wikify thing is gone? < 1257326898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw got keymappings to work ok in Basilisk or sheepshaver? < 1257326920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I tried US, UK and Swedish but none of them match what I would expect < 1257326968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, neither matches what it says on the key caps, what it is on a real mac or what that key caps app under the apple menu says it should be < 1257327009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and depending on if I use the local keyboard or synergy it differs in different ways < 1257328707 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257328734 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257328920 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257328948 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329030 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329058 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329140 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329168 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329342 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329369 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329452 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329479 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329562 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329589 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329665 0 :ampleyfly!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257329777 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329804 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257329887 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257329914 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330102 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330129 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330212 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330239 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330322 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330349 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330432 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330459 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330542 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330570 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330652 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330682 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257330765 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257330808 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I used any other keys except alphabetics and "," or "." yet, so no idea about keymappings. < 1257331007 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331033 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's lecture session at 12:15 had been canceled, and notice emails were sent at 10:30. That was a bit of a short notice thing. < 1257331225 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331264 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331455 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed < 1257331494 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one sat 20 minutes in the classroom waiting for other people because I had to run there from another thing and didn't have time for mail-checkery between. < 1257331591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw. I just found an old VirtualPC cd for mac < 1257331608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think it would be rather sane to use that to run linux under sheepshaver < 1257331611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257331683 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331710 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331793 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread something about the undead. < 1257331820 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh? < 1257331866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sane/insane/ btw < 1257331867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what. Something about undead sheep-shavers. Sounds bizarre. < 1257331875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257331877 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257331878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, says "under" < 1257331882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1257331886 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257331926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I remember playing this http://macintoshgarden.org/games/galactic-core < 1257331932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I remember that splash screen < 1257331984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Md/Wallops- we had to shut down one of our servers which was unstable. sorry for the noise < 1257331986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say? < 1257332032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a play-by-email (potentially) game. How refreshingly quirky. < 1257332052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA Planets was played quite a lot in the BBS scene around here. < 1257332065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait what? it had that? < 1257332068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1257332086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "has the option of playing multiplayer games via email" on that page, at least. < 1257332093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1257332115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't read the text, when he noticed there was no key
< 1257332120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't have one either < 1257332719 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257332727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like esolanging
< 1257332775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of $2500 cables (okay, so we're not speaking of them *now*, but we've been speaking of them earlier); here's a $2500 dowsing rod: http://simmonsscientificproducts.com/pmr_iii.html < 1257332814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best thing you can possibly get with today's technology. < 1257332822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found oxyd for mac < 1257332823 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257332837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks incredibly similar to enigma in graphics < 1257332837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As long as your "things" are limited to fancy sticks, and you use a suitable definition of "best".) < 1257332843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only in game play I mean < 1257332889 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257332889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is a "dowsing rod"? < 1257332905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A rod that you do dowsing with. < 1257332913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dowsing being? < 1257332926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1. dowse, dowsing, rhabdomancy -- (searching for underground water or minerals by using a dowsing rod) < 1257332932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257332936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wave a stick around and it magically (or pseudoscientifically) finds water. < 1257332941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever else you want it to find. < 1257332962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that with $2500 you get a stick with two (count 'em, two!) "power tubes". < 1257332965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, remember this? http://macintoshgarden.org/games/spin-doctor < 1257332972 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257332979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets nostalgic
< 1257333002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. Of course, I was never a Mac person myself, just an observer of some. < 1257333043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about that performa then? < 1257333084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't play with it *that* much. < 1257333114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc spin doctor was bundled with a performa I used. < 1257333120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5600 or around there < 1257333150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember seeing it, but of course I didn't exactly buy it as new, and don't really know where the software on it came from. < 1257333182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With it#1 being that spin doctor, and it#2 + it#3 being the Performa boxey. < 1257333273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I actually parsed it correctly first time. But after reading the clarification I ended up confused for several seconds < 1257333369 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257333566 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{AnMaster} Gregor, the wikify thing is gone? <-- renamed to ".wiki", which is hidden in the listing < 1257333619 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shebang is written as: #!/usr/bin/env .wiki < 1257334257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257334519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, what does the .wiki stuff do then? < 1257335945 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the same as before, but treats both normal and wikified content the same. < 1257335957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, yeah and what was that < 1257335968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION missed the part where it was actually described
< 1257336008 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It converts [[links]] to accual links, and adds
at linebreaks. < 1257336028 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also adds page title, and edit links to each wikified page. < 1257336040 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/links/link/ < 1257336041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, not
? < 1257336057 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. Could be < 1257337489 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257340827 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257340837 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257341289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The proper name is, of course, Scandinaviland. <-- just next to neverland < 1257341476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure what. Something about undead sheep-shavers. Sounds bizarre. < 1257341480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary stuff < 1257341670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, got the official confirmation email that they've accepted my graduate school application. Funding, and therefore almost guaranteed employment here at the university, for 2010-2013. No more begging for spare coins under the railway overpass! (Okay, so I hadn't yet even started that, but still. And conditional to the thesis-work progressing at a reasonable speed.) < 1257341702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1257341719 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257342939 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257343123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257343136 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257343357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257343386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1257343429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I disagree with the annotation. < 1257343464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well naturally it's not that bad usually < 1257343488 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257343505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After reading the comp.risks digests every now and then, I do have a view somewhat like in the annotation of software. < 1257343531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh never knew of that usenet group < 1257343535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you thought computer programs were _usually_ made as good as possible, then you should be really worried about those examples :D < 1257343550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I never had much problems except for emulators for old systems. < 1257343704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257343705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just look at the state of computer security; vulnerabilities all over the place, even in things that should be trivial. (Buffer overflows! In 2009!) Admittedly the adversarial model they run in is a lot more difficult than just "has to be robust against accidental errors". < 1257343747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1257343775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as non-security-related things go, there must be something in the eyeball-bugs saying, since at least my vague feeling is that bug density is higher in all kinds of closed-source blobs. (Skype and nvidia's binary drivers come to mind.) < 1257343808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyeball bugs; they're these little critters that nest in your eyeballs. Icky. < 1257343808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suggest a solution to it: Use "unsafe" languages (like C or asm) only for the stuff you can't use something better (like LISP) for. < 1257343830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eyeball-bugs"? < 1257343870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yes. agreed that binary blobs are more problematic. < 1257343882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow." < 1257343903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257343905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1257343987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257344014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and just as an example... I have a WinXP 64-bit VM. Haven't used it for half a month. 12 new security updates. And two reliability ones. < 1257344112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows updates usually only come once a month, afaik... < 1257344158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but several at once naturally < 1257344194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, probably. There has been such a month increment recently < 1257344195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days ago < 1257344224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i got it a couple days ago or so < 1257344262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CVE list has 39098 entries, spread over a decade or so; that's something like ten a day. < 1257344391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure that is right? < 1257344418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cve.mitre.org/cve/ "TOTAL CVEs: 39098" < 1257344436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep 'Name: CVE' allitems.txt |wc -l => 41068; and they start from 1999. < 1257344569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that count differs quite a bit hm < 1257344587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some are references? < 1257344588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257344602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1257344621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's the order of magnitude. < 1257344840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course not everything in the CVE list probably counts as a vulnerability; I think the count also includes candidate-but-not-a-real-entry entries and such.) < 1257344850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must away for a few hours now. < 1257345165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for vm snapshots. < 1257345325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lightly prods some VMs
< 1257345728 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257345750 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257346258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257346510 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257346604 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257347093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After reviewing about 8 hours of recorded webcam video, I now know what the cat does when we're at work: sleeps. < 1257347119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was that what you planned to use it for? < 1257347133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, sort-of. < 1257347138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1257347184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, cat-observation was the intended goal. It's just that I assumed it'd actually move from my chair at least once during the day. Apparently not. < 1257347211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did stand up a couple of times, and did some self-lickery, but that seemed to be about it. < 1257347342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh. Why did you want to watch it though? < 1257347394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We wanted to know if it seems bored or not during the day. :p < 1257347401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I found a way to make sheepshaver less unstable: Shut it down very often. Like after you copy some files. Shut it down before doing the next step < 1257347409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut down and start again obviously < 1257347423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not restart, becuase that doesn't quit and restart sheepshaver itself < 1257347444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1257347460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the conclusion to that is? < 1257347641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257347643 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257348039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, our preliminary conclusion is that it's not terminally bored, since it just sleeps; we're guessing it'd walk around and look distressed or something. Who knows, though; it just says "krneeew" when we tried to ask directly. < 1257348100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. Not quite the verbal skills of Maurice then? < 1257348517 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257349155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257350067 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest7354 < 1257351555 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257352002 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257352022 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257352075 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257352089 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257352101 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257352152 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257352173 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257352182 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257352205 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257352359 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257353151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: I think I need to put a notice somewhere along the lines of "all contributions to Hackiki are under license". Any objections to MIT/X11? < 1257353163 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since you contributed stuff :P ) < 1257353225 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care. Pick whatever. < 1257353252 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257353488 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257353493 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Durn < 1257353496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "done" :P < 1257354411 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-221.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257354910 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257356286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257356383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, somebody sent me "identify " < 1257356890 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what my password is. < 1257357056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My voice is my password. Verify me." As seen in the 1992 movie Sneakers. < 1257357119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as heard. < 1257357122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays we have portable sound players without a noticeable loss of quality so that doesn't work as well < 1257357132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did they do a recording there as well? < 1257357143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did. < 1257357161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clipped together out of a whole lot of sentences. < 1257357177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, what a crap verifier then < 1257357188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Hollywood, you know. < 1257357230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One voice-verification system asks you to read out a random string of digits and recognizes those, so you can't do pure replay. I would assume it to be vulnerable to some sort of "input numbers and I'll concatenate suitable clips together" application, though. < 1257357340 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257358155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki is now up at http://hackiki.codu.org/ < 1257358258 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257358427 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257358945 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@pal-163-180.itap.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257359281 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257360025 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257360343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first snow this season < 1257360373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, they're forecasting snow here too. < 1257360418 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257360442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to melt pretty quickly < 1257360447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it might actually be snowing out there too. Too dark to really make out without leaving the chair, but there's some sort of possibly snow-like rain visible under the street lamp out there. < 1257360485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it was hailing (err is that the verb form of "hail" in English?) first. Then it changed into snow < 1257360504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, unless they were trying out bouncing snow beta) < 1257360521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slight physics engine tweaks, maybe. < 1257360533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's been snowing for a while now < 1257360539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah. Or a bug in the matrix < 1257360540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe half an hour < 1257360549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we've lately been getting proper stays-on-ground snow before christmas, though, so I guess it'll melt pretty immediately. < 1257360575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, here it has been hailing since 10:00 or so, and snowing since just after sunset < 1257360597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was... uh... several hours ago? Something like that < 1257361393 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@pal-163-180.itap.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257361549 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257361912 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257363801 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257365009 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257368599 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-175-74.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257368632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257369414 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257371041 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257371526 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257373233 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257373257 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257373550 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257373717 0 :Leonidas1!n=Leonidas@chronon.pointtec.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257373747 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257374460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is log-reading at random...
< 1257374466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:24:03 Benevolent Dictator For Until You Get Your Fucking Shit Together. < 1257374474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best idea I've heard for fixing D. < 1257374476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1257375916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, who would be? < 1257375931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbqs < 1257376332 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You of course < 1257376969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257377008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, would probably be better with someone who knew D and possibly also coded in it < 1257377025 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense < 1257377073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, yeah I would replace the whole thing with a cross between C and LISP < 1257377081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some erlang mixed in < 1257377088 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the better < 1257377095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the object orientation stuff would be dropped < 1257377113 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257377113 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257377134 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257377145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for the better < 1257377145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : all the object orientation stuff would be dropped < 1257377145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* MizardX has quit (calkins.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) < 1257377151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you missed anything there < 1257377159 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1257377167 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server I was connect to died < 1257377175 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick reconnect < 1257377820 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257377900 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257378190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: I replaced .wiki with one that uses WikiCreole. < 1257378197 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257378216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WikiCreole? < 1257378227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 < 1257378234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just some Wiki syntax that's fairly sensible. < 1257378262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, please use moinmoin syntax. For the lulz < 1257378262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I extended WikiCreole to support this syntax: {{{\n#!/usr/bin/python\nprint "Lawl embedded code"\n}}} < 1257378277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that looks ugly < 1257378284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as bad as trac's usage of {{{}}} < 1257378301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate people. < 1257378308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why? < 1257378309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this moment particularly AnMaster, but people in general. < 1257378318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why do you hate me? < 1257378328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you don't like the syntax, HEY, the script is in the wiki, go do whatever you fucking want and stop complaining that every syntax is wrong :P < 1257378347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, did I complain about every one? < 1257378361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes. As a matter of fact. All syntax syntax suck < 1257378365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least all I have seen so far < 1257378383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who would complain about {{{...}}} used for f***ing INLINE CODE is somebody who hates all syntax. < 1257378424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Hackiki is now officially the greatest wiki ever. < 1257378433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all people should stop development on their inferior wikis and use Hackiki. < 1257378436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257378463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how is it performance wise? ;P < 1257378471 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems good enough, surprisingly *shrugs* < 1257378482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it scales, since it's effectively CGI + plash < 1257378577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yeah. I was suspecting plash wouldn't scale < 1257378608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, plus every page view involves an hg clone, I suppose that's not super-fast X-D < 1257378795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think plash itself is very slow, really, but as the wiki increases in size the hg clone will become slower (duh), so that could be a very real issue. < 1257379156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Plash Debian-specific or some such? < 1257379433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically it isn't, really it is. < 1257379453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding it absurdly difficult to find a freaking source tarball. < 1257379479 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funbot style! < 1257379495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: But, they offer source .debs. < 1257379496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.plash.beasts.org/packages/plash_1.19.orig.tar.gz < 1257379506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dankon. < 1257379559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty Debian-specific though. < 1257379581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to experiment for a bit. < 1257379590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it doesn't work, much violence will be performed. < 1257380251 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257380260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"checking for x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc... gcc-4.1 -fno-stack-protector < 1257380261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1257380273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the attempt to build plash-glibc. < 1257380275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1257380432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk < 1257380447 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257381096 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257381128 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257381357 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-122.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257382197 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257382778 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257382909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257382948 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257383038 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257384454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257384928 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257385317 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257389629 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257389735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257390437 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257390439 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1257390632 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1257391678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391678 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391678 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391679 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391682 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391685 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391686 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391689 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391689 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257391734 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-9.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :Guest7354!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391734 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391775 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391775 0 :Slereah!n=butt@92.135.29.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257391783 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257392828 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257394882 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257394941 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257401969 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257401979 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257403121 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you're still doing this clone-at-every-turn thing? < 1257403126 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257403553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think you'd be pleased to know that your elfloader thing (barely) works on x86_64-pc-linux-gnu. < 1257403579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though only on staticly linked binaries -- it throws up on trying to load /lib/ldlinux.so) < 1257403776 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257403784 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257406393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257407553 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257407999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257408000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257408188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does the elfloader thing do? < 1257408589 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091016092926]" < 1257409433 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257411408 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257416342 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257416346 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257417336 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257418990 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257419381 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257419481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh < 1257419486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they blacklisted the PC speaker kernel module in 9.10 < 1257419489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the beep-on-shutdown bug < 1257419497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is really not the right way to fix a bug... < 1257420249 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257422603 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257424285 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257424358 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257425294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257425314 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257425628 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257425701 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257425797 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257426775 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257426819 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257426976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agreed < 1257427000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact, I would say that the new behaviour is a bug < 1257427014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwcx < 1257427016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc* < 1257427057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc: the grammaring < 1257427259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257427269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is irritated that sheepshaver requires sysctl -w vm.mmap_min_addr=0
< 1257427270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to run < 1257427797 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257428018 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257428996 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257429218 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257430227 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257430418 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257431396 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257431552 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1257431618 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257432642 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257432758 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257432769 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257433518 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257433949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257434100 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257434113 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257434751 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257435009 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257435015 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257438776 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257439333 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90d9e@gateway/web/freenode/x-b77d1b35fa338212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257439396 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257441697 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257441700 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257445804 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory_ < 1257445805 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory__ < 1257445829 0 :BeholdMyGlory__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory_ < 1257445841 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1257448180 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257448687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257450321 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257450497 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133C8D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257451636 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257453962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/technotes/tb/tb_10.html < 1257453966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the title is wrong there < 1257453971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree ais523 ? < 1257453981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says "Legacy Mac OS X Reference Library" < 1257453982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly < 1257453991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really get what you're on about < 1257453994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Mar 01 1988]" < 1257454002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look at the date of that technical note < 1257454011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look at the header thingy for that secion < 1257454013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :section* < 1257454017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which says "Legacy Mac OS X Reference Library" < 1257454025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, this is from before Mac OS X was invented! < 1257454029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all I know that API still exists in OSX < 1257454046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think that would apply here. XD < 1257454248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about this one "Macintosh Plus Pinouts" < 1257454981 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257457066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh god, I just ended up being randomly highlighted by some noob so noobish I never seen anything as bad < 1257457122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is googl < 1257457122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hadge_, web search engine. You know where you search in the browser. Maybe you use some other search engine *shrug* < 1257457122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have something called yahoo.com < 1257457136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, why did I even answer the highlight < 1257457163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it gets worse < 1257457188 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257457263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Anyone know how to restart a machine < 1257457265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1257457901 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-19-101.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257457941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you seen ehird recently at all? < 1257457958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257457978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if something happened to his net connection or such? < 1257457986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, why would I? < 1257457999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. UK is small (area-wise) < 1257458000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1257458010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, at least compared to Sweden) < 1257458021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes I invented that justification afterwards) < 1257458206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wikipedia question: < 1257458209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to Archive.org since at least February 11, 2008 the URL address http://www.apple.com/hypercard no longer points to Apple's site but redirects to this Wikipedia article." < 1257458222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the "according to archive.org" but < 1257458223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit* < 1257458230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some policy reason for it? < 1257458231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for historical info, presumably < 1257458235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's a citation < 1257458241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it still does redirect like that < 1257458242 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257458243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked < 1257458250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why :P < 1257458263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this seems like it wouldn't need a citation. < 1257458267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe *shrug* < 1257458295 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257458540 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1257458876 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257459662 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257460079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No original research! < 1257460232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays around with hypercard
< 1257460263 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypercard is cool < 1257460270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. kind of < 1257460350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand what the lecturer was talking about, turing machines are totally fun to program and run manually < 1257460366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh? what did he say? < 1257460374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just accepted a^(2^2)
< 1257460381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You are probably in the minority, though. < 1257460386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he said the opposite < 1257460404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every lecturer on a computer science basics course is contractually obligated to say the opposite. < 1257460411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ours did, too. < 1257460438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a basics course, although we are doing basics of tm's atm < 1257460439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Every lecturer on a computer science basics course is contractually obligated to say the opposite. ← why? < 1257460466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of the Conspiracy. < 1257460489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, they've tried to infect Wikipedia too: "Turing machines *are not intended as a practical computing technology*, but rather as a thought experiment representing a computing machine." -- emphasis mine. < 1257460499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257460611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get two entirely different, but equally great pleasures, from 1. fitting tons of state interaction info in my head 2. running the machine without thinking, and watching it slowly do its magic < 1257460657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1257460698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String rewriting languages are also nice to watch. < 1257460699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the proof for turing machines having the properties they do? < 1257460717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can't reduce it to another turing complete language < 1257460719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean as long as the program is simple enough i can do it without any sort of compilation < 1257460724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that kind of defeats the point) < 1257460737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you do compilation, you might just as well use a better language < 1257460739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257460750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean? < 1257460762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not sure XD < 1257460767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CLOSURE PROPERTIES < 1257460777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, unkown. I'm too sleepy < 1257460782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: IS YOUR SHIFT KEY STUCK? < 1257460801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the families of R and RE languages are closed under pretty much everything < 1257460814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, some things just need to be said in uppercase < 1257460876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I mean. How do you prove UTMs are TC. Basically. < 1257460881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1257460885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from that being the definition of TC < 1257460896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets rephrase that < 1257460914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is you define turing machines and define computation as what they do. < 1257460933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the empty proof proves they are TC < 1257460938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257460960 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty proof heh < 1257460983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what about the stuff about that being the best possible class. Well apart from those oracle machines (which no one explains how they would be implemented) < 1257461003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, yeah made me think of "empty set" < 1257461024 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's sort of relevant http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/the-no-self-defeating-object-argument/ < 1257461038 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just really liked that article < 1257461053 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he mentions turning machine :/ < 1257461060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not the best possible class, RE is a proper subset of 2^({0,1}*) < 1257461071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, there are languages that need a stronger machine < 1257461093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, best possible plausible class? Or what is the point of it < 1257461108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define plausible < 1257461115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't know < 1257461116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a whole pile of other models of computation, for which you can prove that a Turing machine can do the same things. The proofs of course depend on what you're comparing to. < 1257461122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neither does anyone else < 1257461128 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster a lot of people say "turing machine/lambda calculus/whatever can compute anything you want it to" < 1257461137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't know *what* it is I don't know < 1257461140 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda vauge and meaningless as far as I could tell < 1257461192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: turing machines have no mathematical property that makes them the best possible plausible class. < 1257461199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just correspond nicely to our intuition < 1257461204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what computation si < 1257461205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1257461227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257461247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest you just believe me :P < 1257461258 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-26-96.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257461259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway look up church turing thesis < 1257461319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err well RE obviously isn't closed under complementation < 1257461328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1257461340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is very flexible < 1257461400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257461404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257461452 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257461605 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257461883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257462248 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257462390 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is no theorem that Turing machines are the best possible computational class in any way; the Church-Turing statement is the unproven statement that it's the best computational class we can build. < 1257462422 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, alternatively, the best computational class the brain can simulate. < 1257462658 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Actually, I'm sure there is a theorem that Turing machines are the best possible computational class where if the machine outputs something, there is a proof that it does. < 1257462682 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257462904 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257463084 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Church-Turing was that lambda and turning machine are equivalent < 1257463119 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I am wrong < 1257463136 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says on the wiki "Informally the Church–Turing thesis states that if an algorithm (a procedure that terminates) exists then there is an equivalent Turing machine, recursively-definable function, or applicable λ-function, for that algorithm. Today the thesis has near-universal acceptance." < 1257463152 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems odd because it use the word "exists" in a non-mathematical context < 1257463167 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also it's not clear where this places oracles < 1257463167 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it does. < 1257463180 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It implies that oracles do not "exist". < 1257463183 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every effectively calculable function is a computable function" < 1257463188 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1257463231 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be quite nice if the Church-Turing thesis were that lambda calculus and Turing machines are equivalent. < 1257463285 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't, so we'll have to stick with our Curry-Howard isomorphism. < 1257464879 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-26-96.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257465307 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Turing machines can't exist, but close enough I guess < 1257465322 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While oracles are like double impossible < 1257465327 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257466049 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what exist mean.... < 1257466063 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly we can not care but in the formal sense it matters < 1257467800 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html <-- reason might be that it ends the current branch of reality :) < 1257467936 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHC :( < 1257468288 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257468288 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257469078 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257470041 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257470572 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257470707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257470841 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257470959 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257471530 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30990 < 1257471546 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHC having problems again? < 1257471887 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257472004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBLEM: Every time a page in Hackiki was viewed, lib/python/creole.pyc would be updated, creating unnecessary churn in the hg-stored FS. < 1257472021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLUTION: rm lib/python/creole.pyc ; mkdir lib/python/creole.pyc ; touch lib/python/creole.pyc/empty < 1257472022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257472037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257472590 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. X keyboard driver froze to extent that not even CTRL+ALT+Fx worked. Forcibly switching to text console and back cleared it up. < 1257472629 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's faster to use the .pyc-file. Otherwise the .py will have to be parsed each time. < 1257472677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: But it ends up slowing down hg quite a bit because the .pyc file gets *touched* every time. < 1257465804 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257465804 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257465926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257465953 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257473812 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257474120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: Yes, but the modification times aren't handled by hg. < 1257474137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually reparsing and recompiling it every time. < 1257474142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know what a .pyc file is :P{ < 1257474470 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257474499 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257474521 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257474598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Hackiki supports file uploads now, so, y'know, make use of that n' all. < 1257474760 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sets an environment variable called FILES, then for each file it sets a difficult-to-read environment variable called FILE_ to the original filename. < 1257475043 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257475053 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257475072 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1257475129 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257475509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.turtleflight.com/mbh/behavior_table.gif I'm pretty sure ehird will want to kill someone < 1257475541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming in MS Comic Sans! < 1257475665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257477830 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257478234 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257478827 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257480927 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-111-65.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257481113 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257481119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257481971 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257482232 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257482346 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-242-255.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257483174 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257484218 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257487166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257487737 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257487774 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257489071 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257491399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257494399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257495953 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257495953 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091016092926]" < 1257497222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257500381 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257500394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:16:36 http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Vivaldi-Masterpieces-Amazon-Exclusive/dp/B002POQ2UQ . Go. Buy. < 1257500397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$6.99 for some unscarce bits? whyever would I do that? < 1257500399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:24:44 he was (apparently) a priest, so I doubt he cared about money < 1257500401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA < 1257500403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45:49 http://s.engramstudio.com/src/sdc.txt <- tentative rules < 1257500405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 fps = waste of time < 1257500407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi guys < 1257500453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:57:28 You fontophiles are idiots. < 1257500453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liberation Mono is perfectly fine, don't confuse AnMaster being a malcontent with him being a font connoisseur. < 1257500467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably not bother trying to read five days of events < 1257500502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:58:31 Gregor, I'm no fontofile. I prefer Ariel over Helvetia because the font spacing is proper in konqueror with it < 1257500503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...especially when he's idiotic enough to confuse a font with a typeface. < 1257500508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And misspell Arial.) < 1257500511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and Helvetica.) < 1257500519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And fontophile.) < 1257500613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:01:13 some P4s are allegedly slower than some P3s !! ; It is true of all lines of Intels (at least since P1pro) that there are early models of the newer one that is slower than the latest models of the previous one. < 1257500613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the i7. < 1257500617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was faster from the start. < 1257500716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:05:43 ehird, I estimate it is around 17 C indoors atm < 1257500716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:05:52 you could maybe use another one to kill two birds with one stone ;-) < 1257500717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:00 Rugxulo, hah. < 1257500717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:07 Rugxulo, I care about environment a bit < 1257500717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:18 so I try to go by bus instead of car and so on < 1257500718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind invisible sandwich — invisible non sequitur-producing thought process < 1257500803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:16:59 Rugxulo, AMD CPUs use more power < 1257500803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:17:00 other than that they are better IMO < 1257500803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you don't mean technologically, as AMD CPUs are simply inferior in every aspect nowadays < 1257500805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257500878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:45:09 http://www.turtleflight.com/mbh/behavior_table.gif I'm pretty sure ehird will want to kill someone < 1257500879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, myself < 1257500888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still possible that they might release a faster-than-the-slowest-i7 in some of the earlier series. Maybe not that likely, though. (I think that's what happened with the original Pentium; the 60 MHz Pentium introduced March 1993 was faster than the 66 MHz 486dx2 models available at that time, but I have a feeling that the 100 MHz 486dx4 models from late 1994 beat the first 60 MHz Pentium.) < 1257500961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not likely. The Core 2s of similar clocks to the first-model, lowest-end i7 lose slightly. < 1257500965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why is it called "DX4" anyway when it runs at triple the bus clock rate?) < 1257500978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly with the brute force of clock speed and a lot of money you could get the uber-best Core 2 to beat the 920 < 1257501410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/, subject to the following conditions:\n\nThe above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in\nall copies or substantial portions of the Software.// < 1257501740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm http://www.opensource.org/licenses/fair.php looks like the simplest OSI-approved license < 1257501751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "usage" is very vague < 1257501921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:35:18 and what was adlib? < 1257501921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:35:29 or Roland MT-32? (sounds familiar, unlike adlib) < 1257501921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION claps
< 1257501934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MT-32 only being the best MIDI synthesiser ever made. < 1257501941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adlib only being one of the most popular soundcards of the 90s. < 1257501963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, clearly you already know these things being so sure that DOS nostalgia is ridiculous. Otherwise you wouldn't be so sure, right? < 1257502078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the mt-32 was unique due to its total reprogrammability < 1257502105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unemulatable too, due to much analogness < 1257502286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:05:53 but you keep saying, "What's the point?" as if it was always so cut and dry < 1257502286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only proper emotional expression is symphonic music composed by dead men! < 1257502332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a matter of signal processing with enough bits. ScummVM has a MT-32 emulator (from the Munt project; it eats a ROM image you have to extract from a real MT-32), though I can't attest at all to how faithful it is. < 1257502397 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257502505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The predecessor ("MT-32 Emulation Project") has a MP3 sample file from both the real and emulated synthesizers at http://www.artworxinn.com/alex/downloads.htm, but I don't have headphones here right now. On a forum someone says it isn't very good. < 1257502506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:46:33 AnMaster: http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/mac/glider.png < 1257502507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:46:39 The games are nowadays free, it seems. < 1257502507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1257502512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the scummvm mt-32 emulator sucks < 1257502519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a real MT-32, and I pirated the relevant ROM files < 1257502522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comparison < 1257502556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:13 Possibly a ripoff of some kind, since I think it was on a PC. It /was/ a paper aeroplane. < 1257502557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a pc version iirc < 1257502575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Windows version on the download page, yes. < 1257502580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1257502581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of the older Glider 4.) < 1257502597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs on os x, the latest one there < 1257502603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's just the os 9 one compiled for os x < 1257502607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's too easy! < 1257502607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses old school quickdraw stuff < 1257502611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very confusing to use on os x :) < 1257502624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The house editor works only in the OS 9 version, too. < 1257502636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, horrific. :P < 1257502661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, MT-32 emulators can never emulate the best thing about it. < 1257502676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing the tiny calculator-style LCD display light up with a game-specific message in the intro. < 1257502738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to sell a special USB peripheral that'd have a similar-looking display; only used by a MT-32 emulator program to display that. I'm sure it'd be a hit. < 1257502890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSP development boards tend to have all kinds of programmable blinkenlights and dip switches, ostensibly for making it easier to debug your code since you can run it real-time and watch the lights -- but I really suspect they've added those just because the plain PCB boards are so utterly boring to look at. Quite a lot of the demo-example-programs of one SDK do a Knight Rider style led-blinkery for no special reason. < 1257502913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It could even have a little chip that reads in digital data, feeds it through a nop analog circuit, and returns it as digital data. < 1257502919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The analog fuzz can be yours again! < 1257502955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, modifying the ISC license may be the best idea. < 1257502957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies." < 1257502958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1257502963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any purpose with or without fee is hereby granted." < 1257502984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use the warranty disclaimer from the Fair License; "DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY." < 1257503099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your software is FREE as in reFREshmEnts. < 1257503121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREE as in Fuck copyright, Repeal Electrical Engineers! Wait... what? < 1257503145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As stated the law allows abuses of software. Require a clause that no malicious uses may be entered into with said program conditional of any use." —OSI page for the MIT license < 1257503157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO DOUGLAS CROCKFORD < 1257503173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, TEMPEST comes from "Tremendously Endowed Men Performing Exciting Sexual Techniques". (Okay, so that's just one of the suggested backronym formations.) < 1257503219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tally-ho; erections must penetrate estrogen's stomach tumour. < 1257503313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 2009, Elliott Hird < 1257503314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257503316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software < 1257503316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any purpose with or without fee is hereby granted. < 1257503316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257503316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257503327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I should s/WORKS/SOFTWARE/. < 1257503332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, really, it would be nice if it applied to all works. < 1257503356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, permission to use is pretty implicit, I'd say... hmm. < 1257503383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should also s/DISCLAIMER/GENTLEMENT/ -- that would make it sound better. < 1257503392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discard the spurious T, though. < 1257503393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257503409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to do copying→? as in modify→modification, distribute→distribution
< 1257503448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Substituting copying for ?, methinks this is t he best: < 1257503449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 2009, Elliott Hird < 1257503450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage, copying, modification and distribution of the works is permitted. < 1257503451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257503451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the best < 1257503481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "of the works and any derivative works", so you can distribute post-modification (though apparently the OSI lawyers don't think that's necessary, seeing as it's "Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument.") < 1257503490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "usage" is way too vague for me. < 1257503550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 2009, Elliott Hird < 1257503551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257503552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage, copying, modification and distribution of the works and any derivative works is permitted. < 1257503552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257503552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257503559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"works is permitted" seems awkward, though. < 1257503572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the singular "work" would suffice. < 1257504201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 2009, Elliott Hird < 1257504202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257504202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage, copying, modification and distribution of this work and any derivative works is hereby permitted. < 1257504202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257504202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THIS WORK IS PROVIDED WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257505126 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I thought "GENTLEMENT" was a truncated version of the proper word. < 1257505135 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like GENTLEMENTATION. < 1257505413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION orders someone to shop the GENTLEMEN picture to say GENTLEMENTATION
< 1257505427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "GENTLEMENTATION.". < 1257505515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 2009, Elliott Hird < 1257505516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this work is hereby granted. < 1257505516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THIS WORK IS PROVIDED WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257505518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amend, amend, amend. < 1257505534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "hereby" is omittable, but it seems to flow better. < 1257505659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's always that person mentioning that (c) has no legal effect/ < 1257505660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect. < 1257505669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think the year really matters. < 1257505680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Copyright Elliott Hird" is... pretty implicit. < 1257505692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this work is granted. < 1257505693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257505693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS WORK IS PROVIDED WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1257505695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's minimalism for you. < 1257505758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this work is granted. < 1257505759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257505759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1257505814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know if permission to use is implicit in copyright law? Pretty sure it is. < 1257505931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WTFPL is basically "Permission to do anything with this work is granted.", but that doesn't seem very robust. < 1257505941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FSF thinks it's okay, though, so perhaps I could simplify further. < 1257505957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257505959 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257505961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1257506449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Permission is granted to copy, modify and distribute this work." < 1257506543 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the only licence you need: < 1257506548 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just do what you want" < 1257506558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *did* mention the WTFPL, you know. < 1257506576 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because software licencing is the worst thing < 1257506581 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean the actual idea, it's there < 1257506587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if we could be so cavalier about the law, then the most license we'd need would be the null string. < 1257506598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually it'd be nice if copyright was repealed, but it isn't.) < 1257506607 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1257506617 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a million versions of YEAH DO WHAT YOU WANT < 1257506621 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the worst thing < 1257506625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But personally I don't feel like encouraging another djb situation, when software is inaccessible to most potential users because of licensing issues. < 1257506630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: There really aren't that many. < 1257506641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WTFPL is the only one, really. < 1257506644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a few obscure ones. < 1257506660 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 IF NUM_GAY_LICENCES > 0 GOTO 20 < 1257506661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the MIT license has restrictions (inclusion of the notice). < 1257506664 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 PRINT "THIS IS SHIT" < 1257506670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :License-on-license action? Hot. < 1257506765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, no, there aren't that many licenses with no restrictions; the WTFPL is probably okay to use but it also contains a bunch of boilerplate around the main do-what-the-fuck-you-want-to text and, besides, I'm not sure how it'd stand up in the retarded courts. < 1257506850 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuq da g-man < 1257506866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the WTFPL is intended for software use only. < 1257506897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: is batting backwards and forth between retarded, incoherent and illogical and intelligent, coherent and logical your schtick or something? you do it a lot < 1257506923 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's something somebody does a lot then i think that's a schtick by definition < 1257506961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar he blows! < 1257506969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it again, do it again < 1257506992 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software licencing gives me tremendous feelings of not feeling anything < 1257507009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll note I never mentioned software. < 1257507016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it is incredibly boring. < 1257507024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also necessary due to the idiocy that is copyright. < 1257507033 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there money in it < 1257507093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no money in a lot of good things. < 1257507101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But licensing isn't good. < 1257507108 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant more like < 1257507109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not sure what my or your points are. < 1257507120 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're using the licencing to protect your golds then that's okay < 1257507132 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is only business and nobody is expecting business to be free of puffery < 1257507151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using licensing to negate the restrictions that copyright law places on my works. < 1257507169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public domain is, unfortunately, legally shaky. < 1257507175 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1257507182 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just *don't prosecute anybody* < 1257507205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, Bernstein tried that < 1257507220 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain the case of Bernstein v. Shyster < 1257507240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result: Linux distributions wouldn't touch his software with a ten foot pole, a lot of businesses almost certainly shied away (because, you know, he could prosecute them and win), blah blah blah < 1257507250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, what you're proposing, then, isn't public domain. < 1257507258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "keep the copyright but don't enforce it". < 1257507262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two concepts are distinct. < 1257507276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are idiotic to try and apply, but the latter is at least well-defined in all legal systems. < 1257507329 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you care about well-defined in legal systems exactly < 1257507334 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain this bernstein thing better < 1257507356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everyone else does. Works aren't a bubble, and I publish them so that other people will take them. < 1257507369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this bernstein thing" is ambiguous. < 1257507406 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, [[WP:DISAMBIGUATE]] < 1257507411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right from the very start Debian (and Ubuuntu) and Fedora won't include my software, and I very much doubt any other major Linux distributions would. < 1257507415 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the fuken wikipedia code is < 1257507419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BSDs will probably ignore it too. < 1257507436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every business ever (not that I care much) as well, and probably a handful of users too. < 1257507446 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bernstein < 1257507448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begging the question why I'd even bother publishing software. < 1257507448 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is bernstein < 1257507457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daniel j bernstein. < 1257507462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka djb < 1257507465 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bearenstein < 1257507472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Author of qmail, djbdns. < 1257507542 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't seem like a licencing issue < 1257507556 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems like an issue regarding the classification of encryption as munitions < 1257507633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an idiot < 1257507646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr people can only have one issue? < 1257507653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never mentioned bernstein v. usa < 1257507658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reading < 1257507680 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffff < 1257507688 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then clarify < 1257507707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:32] ehird: Public domain is, unfortunately, legally shaky. < 1257507708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:32] Pthing: no it isn't < 1257507708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:33] Pthing: you just *don't prosecute anybody* < 1257507708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:33] ehird: Yep, Bernstein tried that < 1257507736 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what did he try < 1257507783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not licensing his software and just not suing anybody. < 1257507796 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what happened? < 1257507833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody shipped his software. It had a decent base of users (especially a lot of corporations use qmail), and he's famous, but you had to manually download and compile it yourself. < 1257507851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and even he, who is quite clued up law-wise, says that this means you can't distribute modified versions, just patches. < 1257507863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, no, "not suing anybody" is not a viable substitute for a license. < 1257507883 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why that necessarily follows < 1257507911 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may just be terrible at convincing people to use his software, and he's using this licence thing as an excuse < 1257507941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257507947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly have no idea who djb is < 1257507955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you've admitted this yourself < 1257507967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so please, don't make embarrassing grasps at straws < 1257508006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— his software is widely considered high-quality, he has a large money grant for anyone to find a bug, and there's only been something like four ever published (this is for qmail and djbdns, iirc) < 1257508009 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no big feat to be like "hey, you don't know anything" to somebody who has been asking you for details and to explain yourself because he doesn't understand < 1257508035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to make a reasonable assumption that I'm not using bernstein as an example because he's an idiot who can't write good software < 1257508043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty stupid, after all. < 1257508045 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never wished to suggest that < 1257508059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it suggesting, you said it outright < 1257508062 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1257508064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:45] Pthing: he may just be terrible at convincing people to use his software, and he's using this licence thing as an excuse < 1257508065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1257508068 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257508079 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it helps to make a reasonable assumption that I'm not using bernstein as an example because he's an idiot who can't write good software < 1257508095 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" he's an idiot who can't write good software" == " he may just be terrible at convincing people to use his software"? < 1257508120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm kinda tired and didn't remember the exact line < 1257508129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever, obviously the implication was that my example was not about the licensing < 1257508135 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motherfucker, is your buffer two lines high < 1257508143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's anmaster. < 1257508154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being terrible at convincing people to use your software would generally lead to someone being not well known at all < 1257508161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using such a nobody as an example would be very odd indeed methinks. < 1257508169 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends who he'strying to convince! < 1257508204 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a fatal miscarriage, so ill to order affairs, as to pass for a fool in one company, when in another you might be treated as a philosopher. < 1257508228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, a quote from poem of the pthing :-P < 1257508236 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jonathan swift < 1257508242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say otherwise! < 1257508253 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, i think it's scrolled off the top < 1257508261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257508261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257508266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what did you say last < 1257508271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make funnies me. < 1257508278 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, my screen is just full of your lines < 1257508430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission is granted to copy, modify and distribute this work. < 1257508430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257508430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1257508431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches Pthing squirm with detached interest
< 1257508460 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do what you want" has four words < 1257508491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fart butterfly cake" has one less < 1257508504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the WTFPL needs an additional warranty disclaimer < 1257508529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do what you want. there is no warranty" would probably stand up, but it's still shaky. < 1257509324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257510018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "my screen is just full of your lies"; but maybe that is also applicable! (I haven't read the screen.) < 1257510033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1257510117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the coding theory thing had an "error", or well, it was made simpler by adding "there are no codewords of weight 2"; we'll probably prove the other cases in the next two homework sets < 1257510132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's utterly trivial with that addition < 1257510181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other cases are simple, but the lecturer at least doesn't know a simple solution, you have to check a few cases < 1257510225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you still remember the original question < 1257510245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again who could forget a mathematical question < 1257512960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 266: Section 102A1/2. Possession, transportation, use or placement of hoax devices: < 1257512960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(b) For the purposes of this section, the term "hoax device" shall mean any device that would cause a person reasonably to believe that such device is an infernal machine. For the purposes of this section, the term "infernal machine" shall mean any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically." < 1257512985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beware, the infernal machine! < 1257514390 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257515520 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.183.74.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257516321 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First give it intelligence, then give it a gun." < 1257516469 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see my spam:ham ratio. < 1257516502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6392:175 < 1257516516 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LURVE WEBERNETS < 1257516545 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257516680 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1257516751 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257516852 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-92-196.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257516887 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.58.154.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257516898 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257517505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, myself <-- do it! < 1257518310 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257518492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257518546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and a question about it. Wondering if you can figure out why < 1257518556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why jamie said that in the last panel I mean) < 1257518557 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257518799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :experience? < 1257518816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh? why it was inevitable < 1257518838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you mean? < 1257518875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _is_ the kind of universe that is. i am sure ehird can come up with some way of deriding you for not having noticed. < 1257518912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right, but isn't that something the characters are supposed to be unaware of? < 1257518946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually that's the kind of _multiverse_ that is. i think it applies to all of them... < 1257518984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257519072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is not the kind of universe where you can expect characters to be unaware of things. unless they are named steve or serron. < 1257519096 0 :|MigoMipo|!i=kvirc@94.191.141.163.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257519143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or james stud. < 1257519149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I found out that sheepshaver fails at emulation for some games I wanted to play. They all display black game screen (controls and such around still) < 1257519150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257519177 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257519178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh or nigerian finance minister :) < 1257519196 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257519200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, there are a lot of characters you can expect to be unaware of things. but not all ;) < 1257519202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or probably a few more < 1257519209 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1257519211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just can't think of them atm < 1257519258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kyros, but not in the same way - he just doesn't _care_ if things go wrong from others' perspective < 1257519377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh william shakespeare, probably < 1257519533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh montana jones < 1257519555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok most major themes have at least one clueless character < 1257519678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not mythbusters? < 1257519744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well... < 1257520301 0 :|MigoMipo|!i=kvirc@79.138.186.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257520326 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257520589 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@pal-179-103.itap.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257520797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1257521128 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1257521693 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257522161 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257522257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257522854 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257523705 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257523715 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257523729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257523749 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257523761 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257523792 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@131.151.189.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257524452 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257526876 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257527095 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257527109 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257527130 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257527588 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257527589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257528178 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257528355 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-26-96.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257528394 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1257528634 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257529327 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257532173 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257532852 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-26-96.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257533145 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257533339 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257534105 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257534136 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.182.174.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257534314 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257535089 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257535290 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257536158 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1257536611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm strongly considering moving some stuff over to Hackiki :P < 1257538659 0 :Leonidas1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1257540081 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257543974 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257543987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a background story text of my D&D character: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/raw_transcripts/Vyb_back_story.txt < 1257543998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I should tell my brother to do so, also. < 1257544007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything important? < 1257544076 0 :augur!n=augur@edge.dcaccess.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257544264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257544348 0 :augur_!n=augur@edge.dcaccess.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257544377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257544492 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257544506 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257545033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257545129 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257545694 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257547135 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257548234 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257549583 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257550397 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1257550923 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257552504 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257552858 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257555703 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257556119 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1257556302 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257556380 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257556907 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257557910 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257558170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257558186 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257558270 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257558382 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257558714 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257558848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1257560515 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257561810 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257561962 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257562008 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257563583 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257564027 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257564314 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257564560 0 :augur___!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257565905 0 :augur___!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257567313 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257568726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257569056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257569072 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257569842 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257571764 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257571919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257572802 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257572804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? Did I forget anything? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/raw_transcripts/Vyb_back_story.txt < 1257572886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, in 8 hours there has been still only join and quit < 1257572987 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257573021 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257573372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257573550 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257575046 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257575851 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257578212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257579714 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257580531 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257580677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257580799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257580800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257581484 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1257583637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is experimenting with a new alarm... this better not mess up
< 1257584672 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257588592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257589538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, alarm for? < 1257589543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in alarm() ? < 1257590350 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257592108 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257592185 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-186.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257593284 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257594002 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257594012 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257594506 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257596113 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257597149 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257597742 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257598204 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257599200 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257600456 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257600480 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257600520 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257601527 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257601570 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257601655 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257601812 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257602623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257603526 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257603820 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257604255 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257604512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frailties. < 1257604594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257604651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:05 yes, myself <-- do it! < 1257604651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by myself i evidently meant you. < 1257604665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257604949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42:26 oerjan, and a question about it. Wondering if you can figure out why < 1257604950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42:36 (why jamie said that in the last panel I mean) < 1257604950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:46:39 experience? < 1257604951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:46:56 oerjan, eh? why it was inevitable < 1257604951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:18 oerjan, what do you mean? < 1257604951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:55 that _is_ the kind of universe that is. i am sure ehird can come up with some way of deriding you for not having noticed. < 1257604953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Au contraire; AnMaster is an expert in unintentionally deriding himself. I could not possibly top him. < 1257604988 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257605044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25:38 coppro, alarm for? < 1257605045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25:43 as in alarm() ? < 1257605045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an expert in intentionally misunderstanding < 1257605049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cue "it was a joke") < 1257605138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did find alarm() unlikely. But what sort of alarm it was was rather unclear. Perhaps alarm for overheating? Or an alarm clock to wake up in the morning? < 1257605151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely you can tell me which one he meant < 1257605151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty obviously for waking up. < 1257605734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silence! < 1257605803 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in waking up < 1257605819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, right < 1257605825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, obvious why? < 1257605832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's obvious. < 1257605866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice circle argument. < 1257605889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With such stunning spelling of "circular argument", it's clear that you are a higher authority than I on what is obvious in English text. < 1257605920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes as I expected... you are back on OS X < 1257605923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ehird- VERSION Colloquy 2.3 (4617) - Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Intel) - http://colloquy.info < 1257605930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been on OS X for weeks. < 1257605947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay, maybe you just had a bad day? < 1257605950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure a circular argument (even if it was one) beats a completely unsubstantiated ad hominem, though. < 1257605963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts ehird on ignore for now.
< 1257605966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially one without any backing logic or reason, just a splatter of data points selectively sampled. < 1257605990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure would be nice if AnMaster would /ignore me for more than 5 minutes. < 1257606089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what mood AnMaster will divinate^Wscientifically assign to my Linux; perhaps "slightly mellow with a hint of cynicism". < 1257607690 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B1363F6.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257608118 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257608195 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257608229 0 :fax!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257608236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to swat FireFly, misses and swats ehird instead -----###
< 1257608252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you have hit fax instead? he's closer < 1257608286 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well apparently he didn't < 1257608344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there was probably karma involved < 1257608403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'm sure "i'm sure there was probably" is probably not an ideal way of expression < 1257608492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm pretty sure a circular argument (even if it was one) beats a completely unsubstantiated ad hominem, though. < 1257608502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just say that because you're an idiot < 1257608511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ranking invalid arguments is so reasonable, I tell you. < 1257608522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no idiot! I am, however, stupid. < 1257608545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are an idiot. as that quote proves. < 1257608629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your, uh, pa is an idiot. < 1257608737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost more offensive than joking about my dead mother. mostly because i sometimes think so myself. < 1257608860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i am insulted that you have still not recognized my use of a circular ad hominem < 1257609470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1257609530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your non-existent long-lost sister is an idiot, then < 1257609557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can agree with that. < 1257609600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sound so angry when you're not joking :D < 1257609633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm grumpy today. < 1257609666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, your non-existent long-lost sister's... face? < 1257609667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1257610977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawing a serifed m in 7x10 pixels is the hardest thing I've done all day. < 1257611693 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257611764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERIFY DAT B*TCH < 1257612089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B*TCH? Srsly? < 1257612108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason login(1) delays on an incorrect password is to prevent brute-forcing, right? < 1257612134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :botch a batch of butch bitches < 1257612655 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "butch" < 1257612965 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah I guess < 1257612978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty stupid, since you can just spawn a bunch of login(1)s. < 1257613003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even detect the delay and go onto the next one (keeping the old process open in case it's just slow). < 1257613024 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a machine only has so many login processes around usually < 1257613071 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for each virtual terminal I think, but not for xterms or anything < 1257613105 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they keep getting killed to fast, init will stop producing them (in case they have neterd a loop of some kind) < 1257613112 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for about 5 mins usually < 1257613113 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That property is to prevent brute-forcing to people who have NO account, not to people who have an account and want root. < 1257613134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How can you run a brute-forcing program from the login(1) prompt? < 1257613134 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ordinary users can't spawn a login < 1257613140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet < 1257613155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257613159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can detect the delay over telnet, too! < 1257613170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make a bunch of telnet connections. < 1257613187 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is easily prevented, the former is unhelpful. < 1257613206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1257613212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems kinda pointless nowadays to me. < 1257613217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays it certainly is. < 1257613217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when we have SSH keys... < 1257613219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's outdated. < 1257613223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. < 1257613227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a product of past. < 1257613229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess that's why you said telnet. < 1257613234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257613235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can probably remove it. >:) < 1257613245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— I'm even trying to avoid PAM, not sure how that'll go < 1257613246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshd doesn't even spawn login anyway < 1257613270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1257613277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still delays on connect, though. < 1257613279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1257613281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On invalid login. < 1257613287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, that might just be because ssh is slow; < 1257613289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow. < 1257613411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sta.li/faq ;; What's this? Sanity? Astonishing. < 1257613442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://github.com/dryfish/openbsd-pdksh sweeeeeet) < 1257613478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although did they have to make it use autoconf? < 1257613588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I hope automake defaulting it to GPLv3 is just a mistake... < 1257613989 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the ldd exploit
< 1257614013 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it portably allows arbitrary code execution. < 1257614016 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1257614100 0 :mad!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257614105 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :madbrain < 1257614145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yep < 1257614156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's totally unintuitive, yet it's not a bug(!) < 1257614164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not a bug any more than static linking itself is a bug... < 1257614483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fiddles with ksh prompt
< 1257614546 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is a bug then it is a design-time bug < 1257614877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1257614898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="\e[47;4;30m\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')$\e[m " seems to produce quite a pleasing prompt; makes underscores ugly, thouggh < 1257614900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1257614920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(underlined, light-grey backgrounded "~/foo$", then a space) < 1257615070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1='\e[47m\e[m ' is nice too (light-grey tab-sized space, then a space) < 1257615094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means you have to look at the title bar to see where you are, though (assuming you've set that up) < 1257615679 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have looked at my ldd, and I find that it has a list of known loaders and calls them with --verify and the executable name before invoking the executable itself. I guess that checks that the executable's loader is a known-safe one first < 1257615718 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does that propmt change when you change directories? < 1257615729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, note the \ before $( < 1257615739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksh expands the PS1 'fore printing. < 1257615766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically I should have the horrible hack ksh uses to denote non-printing characters in there, but I'm lazy and it doesn't change much < 1257615774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the prompt just disappears when the line scrolls to the right earlier) < 1257615786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact my `man ksh` doesn't mention it so maybe the openbsd version doesn't have it < 1257615798 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? ksh does some kind of scrolling prompt? < 1257615814 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash uses \[ and \] to denote zero-width parts of the prompt < 1257615826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa[…], press a < 1257615838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < < 1257615851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< meaning "yo, there's stuff to the left" < 1257615869 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1257615876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can caret (v. to manipulate a caret) to the left to see the earlier stuff < 1257615877 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahs just uses multiple lines < 1257615878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no marker if you do that) < 1257615883 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bash < 1257615886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, multiple lines is maybe a better solution < 1257615896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for pipelines < 1257615904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh, it's easy to hit enter after | < 1257615939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, preferably, notice you're writing an involved shell command and spawn an rc :-P < 1257616014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does `sudo chsh` by mistake so often
< 1257616019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like it should require root! < 1257616029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it prompts for a password, which makes my sudo-sense tingle < 1257616083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though (not thouggh; ha, good luck finding the line I typoed this in) < 1257616203 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is irritated that when invoking root-requiring things from the GUI, he is prompted for the root password
< 1257616234 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no root password; it should spot that and try a GUI sudo instead! < 1257616317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu does :-P < 1257616334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: symlink su to a shell script calling sudo ;-) < 1257616338 0 :sharada!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257616343 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that hasn't got upstream < 1257616387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, make it `sudo realsu $*` < 1257616401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever < 1257616405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root doesn't need to give passwords to su, so... voila! < 1257616422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't fix GUI sus, but you could just do something similar there. < 1257616436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make gksu do gksudo realsu $*, etc. < 1257616451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I'm helpful, me. < 1257616463 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257616490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do it and test it so I can go yay, I'm clever. < 1257616571 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba < 1257616610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1257616619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the only rational course of action is to kill myself. < 1257616769 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257616808 0 :sharada!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fax < 1257616899 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to the excellent Undone, on the radio.
< 1257617155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do you say that he is a fundamentalist ? Do you mean that he is right ?" < 1257617550 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257617625 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257617644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote. < 1257617655 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but from where < 1257617774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mailing list thread. Clearly the speaker is non-native (if the email header name "QUINTIN Guillaume" wasn't enough of a giveaway). < 1257617781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the spaces before question marks. < 1257617783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's amusing. < 1257617809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems an easy mistake to make: "fundamentalist" → "of the fundamentals". < 1257617835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, it could also be that right ~ right-wing? < 1257617878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In context, both previous and following, that seems unlikely. < 1257617888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257617894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I think any non-native speaker, at least, would think right far more important a word than to abbreviate right-wing to it. < 1257617926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which means that the native speakers that abbreviate it put political alignment above facts! Or something.) < 1257617931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean, they could be the same word in his native language, or he doesn't know that "wing" applies < 1257617989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the names of the two oldest political parties in norway translate as simply "left" and "right"... < 1257618022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that is true. < 1257618034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, context seems to paint that as unlikely. You might be right though. < 1257618059 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :french uses "de gauche" and "de droite"... could happen < 1257618063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but would anyone making such a question really confuse fundamentalism and right-wing? < 1257618071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was just a theory (like evolution *ducks*) < 1257618076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make a connection of that type, I'd have to translate fundamentalist back to English as a non-native speaker < 1257618085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would almost certainly reveal the true meaning to me, thus negating the question < 1257618112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like it's a connection you could only make if you knew what fundamentalist means already < 1257618114 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, fundamentalism/evangelicals aren't common asides from in USA, so it's definitely possible that he'd confuse them < 1257618131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fundamentalism is everywhere. Do you really think it only applies to religion? < 1257618142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example norwegians (i.e. me) have a hard time remembering to use left-hand or right-hand in english, since that is a case where we just use the bare words < 1257618159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not me nowadays, but once upon a time < 1257618164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My right is right, but my left is left. < 1257618174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE POLITICAL AFFILIATION OF MY NORWEIGAN HANDS < 1257618179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NORWEGIAN < 1257618187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BETTER: < 1257618190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Better: < 1257618195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My left is right, but my right is left. < 1257618281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how you doing < 1257618286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: totally total < 1257618289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257618291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have just said < 1257618292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: totally < 1257618303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257618304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: while we do use the word "fundamentalisme" in norwegian, i assume this is mainly caused by recent US influence < 1257618305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i "see" < 1257618322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fundamentalism doesn't just apply to religion dammit < 1257618327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in its current use < 1257618357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what i mean is we may not have used that word much before the USA recently started blasting it out everywhere < 1257618384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1257618591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257618609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with nntp you can access messages sent before you "subscribe" can't you? < 1257618612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the server keeps the < 1257618614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1257618697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit the last update of avg claimed to do some kind caching to avoid scanning every file every time, but it _still_ goes into the damn java runtime jars... which i recall from before is what takes about half the scanning time < 1257618702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kind of < 1257618722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't protect viruses, because they don't protect me. < 1257618757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrefutable logicz < 1257618761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had hoped for some major speedup :( < 1257618800 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1257618858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pirate nod32 < 1257618862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast as a speeding virus scanner < 1257618866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sure you can < 1257618879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1257618884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the nntp) < 1257618910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, messages should be accessible < 1257618927 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the nntp request for subscribing anyway? < 1257618928 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Fundamentalism is everywhere. Do you really think it only applies to religion?"" ah, ok, then we're talking about 2 different things: "fundamentalists" as general people that take temselves way too seriously (incl. communists,etc..) and the specific "born-again" protestant movement < 1257618942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: dunno if it even has one < 1257618958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: yeah; the second is the formal definition but it's fine, imo, to use it for the former < 1257618961 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it didn't have one, how would your question make sense? < 1257618976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: when used in norway i would say > 50% of the time it refers to islamists < 1257618977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, exactly < 1257618981 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Giganews and it has plenty of coverage back to the early 90s at least < 1257618986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: islamists? you mean muslims. < 1257619017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you mean fundamentalist muslims... < 1257619017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: islamist ~~ rabid fundamentalist muslim < 1257619018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that word isn't actually, you know, real < 1257619020 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he's referring to fundamentalist islamists < 1257619035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf who created this word and didn't tell me about it < 1257619041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's how the word islamist is used in norwegian afaik < 1257619049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to exist. < 1257619054 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and islamism as a word is afaik real at least in french and also used all the time < 1257619084 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muslim = religion; islamism = political movement < 1257619085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's what people use when they are pretending not to be against islam itself ;) < 1257619095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1257619119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: the religion is definitely not called muslim, it's called islam < 1257619123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its adherents are muslims < 1257619137 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257619168 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's islam vs islamism < 1257619186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesky arab grammar, those are the same root... < 1257619208 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha true < 1257619212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how deep! indeed insanity does have the same root as religion < 1257619223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257619225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: i was refering to muslim as well there < 1257619225 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto shit and science, IIRC < 1257619242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what, like, really? the words? < 1257619252 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257619258 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oearjan: true, islam and muslim are both "SLM" < 1257619258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257619276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shitty Lactating M— no, this acronym isn't working. < 1257619309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: why isn't muslim mslm? < 1257619315 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in those languages mean they're the same root... of course, that gets lost in loaning and they become two different morphemes < 1257619328 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's M+SLM yes < 1257619337 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's derived < 1257619344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you actually know something, i thought you just meant they have those consonants < 1257619356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadism, Loving, Masochism < 1257619365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was just making sure i didn't imagine the m, basically) < 1257619387 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: arab languages use sets of 3 consonants as roots, and derive them by adding different patterns of vowels and extra consonants < 1257619450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1257619464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's only 17,576 valid roots in arabic < 1257619470 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously english is mostly concatenative+various irregularities all over the place so that mechanism is lost in loans < 1257619484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATCH OUT INDIANS! YER DERN ANTI-MERICAN LANGUAGE GONA COME TO AN END WHEN WE INVENT US SOME MORE WORDS! < 1257619519 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's kinda like in chinese: chinese has only about 5000 morphemes < 1257619520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they have 26 consonants? < 1257619522 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that's another one to my list of crimes: speaking English natively < 1257619530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oops :-D < 1257619538 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are combined into thousands of compound words < 1257619544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also i hate you < 1257619546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so < 1257619550 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257619551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUINING MY JOKE < 1257619566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay they have < 1257619577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen < 1257619581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fifteen sixteen seventeen < 1257619588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eighteen nineteen twenty twenty one twenty two twenty three < 1257619596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twenty four twenty five twenty six twenty seven < 1257619614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY 7.62559758 * 10^12 ROOTS THEN < 1257619627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those all english numbers? < 1257619628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WE HAVE TO MAKE UP A FEW MORE WORDS < 1257619629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHAT?! < 1257619634 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arab is weird < 1257619640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language#Consonants < 1257619644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell of a lot of consonants < 1257619663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only two vowels too? < 1257619671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 28, huh < 1257619671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Arabic alphabet has 29 basic letters." < 1257619675 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 consonants? < 1257619678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, must've misunderstood the table < 1257619683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 i said? < 1257619685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21952 < 1257619685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it 28 < 1257619686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two? i thought it had 3 which could be long or short... < 1257619689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i count wrong < 1257619695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a i u < 1257619698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh i am so confused < 1257619703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW MANY CONSONANTS DOES ARABIC HAVE < 1257619710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, ehird: i got 28 by a quick look, may be wrong. < 1257619722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it means that there are two characters in each box < 1257619735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I swapped my ^ arguments kekekekekeke < 1257619740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one is ipa or english or w/e < 1257619741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1257619745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the arabic alphabet is basically consonantal and vowels are an afterthought iiuc < 1257619747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 21,952 then < 1257619748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO LIMITED < 1257619768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: langton's ant touches an infinite number of squares with any possible initial configuration, has this already been ruined for you? < 1257619809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you love trying to solve my homework (this one i've solved) < 1257619822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruined how < 1257619831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen/found proof < 1257619838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1257619839 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has, uhm, 24 consonants by comparison, not many less < 1257619847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not sure i may have seen it mentioned < 1257619849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a problem, you have to prove that < 1257619852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, i < 1257619854 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homework??? where?? < 1257619854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it ruining < 1257619855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257619872 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has many more vowels though :D < 1257619874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know the solution, there's nothing to solve < 1257619877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION convinced his dad that an Active Worlds subscription will help him with classes
< 1257619879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: langton's ant < 1257619891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how? < 1257619914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, bots for AW can be written in C or C++, and I'm taking a C++ class, so.. < 1257619928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you make bots? < 1257619940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations! You are either the best convincer ever or your dad is the most convincable ever. < 1257619959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, planning to < 1257619962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BETTER THAN CONGRATULATIONS: Spatulations) < 1257619979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably the latter < 1257619993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kind of < 1257620005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't really ask questions >.> < 1257620022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr he just doesn't really care all that much < 1257620032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: btw all those letters in the [[WP:Arabic alphabet]] table are consonants, it's just some double occasionally as vowels < 1257620044 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ish < 1257620094 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, arabic doesn't put much emphasis on vowels < 1257620140 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of possible vowel patterns is limited, so if you add enough extra information in the writing, they become unambiguous < 1257620149 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also works in hebrew < 1257620191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Firefox: Please stop randomly freezing on me. Love, Sgeo < 1257620199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language that's all vowels would be fun < 1257620206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know that technically nothing (or at least, very little) a computer does is random) < 1257620207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Stop using Firefox. —ehird < 1257620246 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dunno if that's plausible, although you can definitely have a language with lots of vowels and not so many consonants for instance < 1257620264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole fun is that it's all vowels < 1257620270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds like you're just doing baby-style vocalisations! < 1257620335 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, but then /i,u/ would turn into /j,w/, then probably /J\,b/ and eventually /t~k p/ < 1257620352 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the speed at which you'd have to talk < 1257620354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, forbid any such pesky combinations then. < 1257620391 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much impossible, the vowel inventory would expand until one vowel changes into /i/ and one into /u/ < 1257620466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1257620472 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, once /i,u/ turned into consonants, then /e,o/ would raise to /i,u/ and then in turn become consonants too < 1257620474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why would you have to talk quickly? < 1257620485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just take it sloooooooowly. ooooooooooooooooooooooy. < 1257620489 0 :boily!n=boily@dsl-173-206-14-197.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257620494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boils boily
< 1257620497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're boilier. < 1257620497 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the less possible different syllables you have, the faster you have to speak < 1257620514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: UNLESS YOU'RE RETARDED. < 1257620520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sayin' < 1257620536 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wonder what is my boiling point? < 1257620536 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like spanish, the have less possible vowels etc... so they speak twice as fast to compensate :D < 1257620540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that killed the conversation < 1257620547 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works because they have less slow sounds < 1257620553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad timing for me to say that huh < 1257620563 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have less slow sounds bevause they have less possible vowels etc.. :D < 1257620571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Evidently <= room temperature, if you're boily now. < 1257620585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be in some sort of heating contraption though, technically. < 1257620594 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My calculation is that you have to have about 50bits per second < 1257620599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you get your durable keyboards and mice?! < 1257620620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you're slowist. < 1257620632 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have some languages with huge syllables full of information (say, 10 bits) that go slower (like 5 syllables/s) < 1257620635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently swedes talk much slower than danes, i seem to recall reading recently. i don't think the phoneme set sizes are that different... < 1257620650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pronunciation certainly is < 1257620680 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inversely you have languages with small syllables (like ~6bit in japanese) but they can go faster since all the syllables are simple (say, 8 syllables/s) < 1257620734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: optimising a language for efficient bit transfer would be fun < 1257620741 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be hard to have a vowel set that is large enough while also being fast, since the faster the vowel, the less time you have to glide to the next one so the more approximative they become < 1257620751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you can talk quickly (thus feeling like you're communicating faster) but with enough bits to be efficient < 1257620754 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes :D < 1257620760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, everyone feels like they're talking really quickly < 1257620771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are, just not by that much < 1257620816 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So with vowels only, suppose you'd have to reach 64 syllables at least, can you do that? :D < 1257620863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but oklopol can. < 1257620882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN! < 1257620898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 syllables what < 1257620918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including diphthongs and triphthongs? < 1257620921 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~60 different possible syllables < 1257620940 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but that's dangerous, basically you're putting in /j,w/ with those :D < 1257620985 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget reversed "h" < 1257620987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: do you mean you'd have to speak @ 64 syllables/s? < 1257620992 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION consults his sampa table...
< 1257620996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want 64 pure vowels? i vaguely recall there's some south-east asian language which comes close < 1257621005 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you'd have syllable boundary problems probably... still better than a fully pure vowel system < 1257621018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP CORRUPTING THIS FOLLY'S PURITY < 1257621037 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, no, it could have diphthongs I guess :D < 1257621072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tones could help < 1257621081 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not speak @ 64 syllable/s, you have to have at least 64 different possible syllables in your language < 1257621087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1257621091 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: true! < 1257621106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: how fast would you have to speak then for 50 b/s? < 1257621108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait < 1257621115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how fast you can speak a syllable ofc < 1257621130 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257621131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language doesn't have 64 syllables? < 1257621132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that means 1 syllable = 6 bits < 1257621133 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, suppose you have 8 pure vowels only, that's 3 bits, so you'd have to speak at about 17 syll/s < 1257621138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one only using vowels < 1257621140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1257621147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: oklopol can do that! < 1257621149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do that < 1257621150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably) < 1257621166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 3 finnish vowels, 512 syllables < 1257621202 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language might have less than 64, or more... < 1257621218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: rotokas < 1257621244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 consonants and 5 vowels < 1257621247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, Pirah�... < 1257621255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirahã can be whistled, hummed, or encoded in music. <<< are you sure it's even a well-defined question? < 1257621259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1257621267 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and only one vowel per syllable? < 1257621271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not pure cv, as the final s shows < 1257621281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably won't work < 1257621290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how many syllables of pure vowels can you speak per second < 1257621291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's <= 70 < 1257621292 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotokas afaik has many non CV syllables too < 1257621321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you're a linguist like augur? < 1257621329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conlanger i think < 1257621334 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not professionally < 1257621335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur is too, admittedly < 1257621337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 8 isn't too hard < 1257621344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257621346 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like a nerdy hobby to me :D < 1257621348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: does student count as professional, if not augur isn't either :P < 1257621350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 8 vowels < 1257621352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1257621362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you're not boring like augur, thankfully! < 1257621363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda put them in separate syllables if i just talk in vowels < 1257621366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, don't tell augur i said t haht < 1257621368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1257621392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm sure augur doesn't know his linguism bored you < 1257621394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bores < 1257621422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i need to leave irc now, remember to love each other like i do < 1257621423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1257621452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finn loving? ha! < 1257621560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finns cannot love it would mess up the sauna culture < 1257621629 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about making a language with only 10 consonants and no consonant-vowel-consonant syllables but 5000+ syllables? :D < 1257621638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries. my poor pixel font is being ruined by the impossibility of "m"!
< 1257621659 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m? < 1257621668 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what is your char size? < 1257621669 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for m you have to compromise < 1257621674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you try making an m glyph with serifs that fits in 7x10 < 1257621679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(8x12; rest of pixels used for spacing) < 1257621689 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most fonts I've seen make the "m" with a only 1 pixel wide bar < 1257621690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially one that fits in with my other characters... < 1257621696 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes fixedsys < 1257621704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: yes, my non-bold chars don't have such doubled d lines < 1257621706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bold chars do though < 1257621710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll do bold m and debold it < 1257621719 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257621739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k was a challenge too but i'm semi-satisfied with what i have < 1257621740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://elinux.org/Kernel_Size_Tuning_Guide < 1257621745 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, fixedsys m is like: < 1257621754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: why thank you! < 1257621760 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :###### < 1257621761 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257621762 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257621763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 1110100 0101010 ... 0101011 < 1257621763 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257621768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: especially the list of config options < 1257621784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: is each block vertical or horizontal < 1257621786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess vertical < 1257621793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1257621794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257621799 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(repeat the middle bit) < 1257621801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, unrelated, but I did hack that tiny DOS Befunge93 interpreter again, it's now 1024 bytes w/ simple LFN and 386 check (so it won't crash on older cpus) < 1257621804 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also you can use the top contour of the letter as a cue < 1257621837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: oh that's good < 1257621837 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or use the "empty row" at the right of the char, making it 8 wide instead of 7 < 1257621845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 1 at the very end makes it look good < 1257621857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not fat at all like my other characters, but I have to compromise for m, it seems < 1257621858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1257621861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: yes, I'm considering that too < 1257621871 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: uh, ok < 1257621872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: but it'd make the neighbouring character bash right into it < 1257621874 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you wanted serigs < 1257621886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah, but I couldn't get them looking good < 1257621900 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know how it would look, since I just typed it in < 1257621913 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can reduce the spaces between the lines so that they touch, it should be readable still since you'll recognize it by density instead of by line configuration < 1257621962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another avenue to explore might be making the middle line shorter < 1257621965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to look okay < 1257621988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like most of this font so far... < 1257622010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: making the lines touch would look very unlike the other characters; they're very thin < 1257622044 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making it only 1 line thick? < 1257622059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, apart from the bold characters < 1257622064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the look so far is very distinctive < 1257622067 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then m should not be a problem! < 1257622078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but I need to make it fit — and the other characters look fit < 1257622080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, serifs < 1257622086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a very good candidate, though! < 1257622095 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, without bold you have ample space for that < 1257622106 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#..#..# < 1257622110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh < 1257622113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop sending for a sec < 1257622113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shh < 1257622117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257622118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### # < 1257622118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # # < 1257622118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # # < 1257622119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # # < 1257622119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # # < 1257622120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### ### < 1257622122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257622124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks pretty good < 1257622128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I should reduce those serifs though < 1257622148 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but you can also let the serif go into the empty line! < 1257622167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of my other characters do that; and the spacing is nice — it fits with the outlines; the characters breath a lot < 1257622169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to speak < 1257622208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: you can continue sending that char you were sending now < 1257622267 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1257622267 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# # ## < 1257622267 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # # < 1257622267 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# # # < 1257622267 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# # # < 1257622268 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# # ## < 1257622290 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assymetry on row 2 isn't very nice < 1257622309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, this is serif country < 1257622314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we hate symmetry :P < 1257622338 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked your one < 1257622339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: lemme copy that into my image editor < 1257622343 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds compression funny yet weird ... 7za a -mx9 produces 1025-byte file from a 1024-byte .COM while aPACK -x produces 1023 bytes
< 1257622354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: btw, my letters are mostly 6px high < 1257622357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll adjust for that < 1257622362 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't designed to work on things that small < 1257622372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously ;-) < 1257622377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ahh, but the serifs make my font what it is < 1257622377 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you use half-solid pixels you can use to anti-alias the shape, too < 1257622382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be bland otherwise < 1257622386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: half-solid? < 1257622393 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 624 -s gets 1016 < 1257622405 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, like, say, white-gray-black instead of just white-black < 1257622429 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1257622433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: that m you showed has a problem many of my ms have had — a little dirt-looking artifact when zoomed out onn a high-res screen < 1257622442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: also, naw, don't have nothin' like that < 1257622456 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "Rugxulo: the compression programs aren't designed to work on anything that small" < 1257622461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :D < 1257622466 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another option might be dropping serifs on m < 1257622471 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, nice ambiguity < 1257622489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: considered that; I definitely don't think a serif on the middle line is practical < 1257622518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers something; tries it
< 1257622530 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257622572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1257622578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna try a bold m and debold it < 1257622582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for all the suggestions < 1257622584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really helps < 1257622597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, haven't done a bold l yet < 1257622598 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in really tiny typefacse, you get M being things like 111 111 101, and it can work < 1257622619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah, I did something similar with my 4x3 typeface (with spacing 5x4) < 1257622620 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a 1-bit font? < 1257622623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257622630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rfk86 m is "110 111 101"; n is "110 101 101". < 1257622635 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need sub-pixel rendering! < 1257622640 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what Apple do < 1257622662 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch 1-pixel difference < 1257622662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: http://typophile.com/node/61920 :-) < 1257622687 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to look a bit rainbowy though < 1257622689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as interesting for the font as it is for gawping at StoneCypher's serious mental illness) < 1257622713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Apple aren't the first nor last to do subpixel font rendering < 1257622717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Microsoft do it (ClearType) < 1257622724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the default in Ubuntu < 1257622734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Well... if you have ff3.5 or something that does font-embedding like that (and scripts on), you can see it "live" at http://zem.fi/rfk86/ [not a shameless plug at all] -- it's not so bad. And actually both had one "101" more, since it's 6x4-sized cells. < 1257622808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: looks like Linux 2.4 got updated today (2.4.37.7) < 1257622837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises he fucked up a character width in the bold font
< 1257622838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f u c k < 1257622855 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the VGA font has serifs only on some letters < 1257622856 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for unlawful carnal knowledge < 1257622863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I can sort it out later < 1257622882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i enter them as bit arrays :-) < 1257622917 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it meant for a terminal? < 1257622945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly for English text, although I like it so much that I've considered using it for a terminal. < 1257622954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly monospaced is kinda crap for English. < 1257622965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-2.4.37.7.tar.bz2 -- 29.7 MB (ouch) < 1257622981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a whole 30 MiB? I have to buy a new drive, man. < 1257622983 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for a font with 2 pixel wide lines for terminal though < 1257622985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm from 1980, dude. < 1257622988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I'm saying man, dude. < 1257622996 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ie make bold the default < 1257622997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Then use the bold variant. < 1257623006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the Unix world we don't do that crap. :D < 1257623027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-2.4.0.tar.bz2 18.9 MB 1/3/01 6:00:00 PM < 1257623027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257623053 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically doubled in size < 1257623088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Rugxulo, technology is going down the drain, 10.8 MiB increase over eight years is basically the downfall of humanity, people who don't support the 286 are incompetent. < 1257623094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as bad as XP (1.5 GB) to Vista (16 GB) < 1257623095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop complaining about it. < 1257623134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't an epidemic, I wouldn't care < 1257623145 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when everything (Python, Perl, etc.) all bloats up ad nauseum, it gets annoying < 1257623146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you *have* to complain, you should compare compiled images containing a mostly-identical set of compiled-in drivers; it's not like the source size is so terribly important. < 1257623162 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is the kernel getting bigger and bigger (including all the modules it uses) but they took years to add support for $obscure_hardware_that_noone_uses! < 1257623167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1257623182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IT INCREASES SIZE? Strip it out strip it out! < 1257623185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAYS PASS < 1257623196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why doesn't Linux boot on my IBM PC after updating? < 1257623200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sigh... < 1257623214 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found TinyPython, wonder if it's any good ...
< 1257623248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've found a sudden affinity for the #esoteric-should-be-about-esolangs-only folks. I announce the new creation of ##bloat-epidemic. < 1257623265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gogogogogo < 1257623284 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good no bloat, only one user :-) < 1257623286 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which would have the ColorForth discussion in it?> < 1257623293 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#forth probably < 1257623303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: IT WILL NEVER BE BLOATED WITH MORE PEOPLE < 1257623305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1257623325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, optimal size now ;-) < 1257623345 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you know what ColorForth is, right? < 1257623345 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, making a hugely parallel cpu requires solving a few data routing problems: < 1257623355 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I) Routing problem (easy) < 1257623358 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Y) Routing problem (easy) < 1257623376 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reverse Y) Routing problem (harder) < 1257623387 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(feedback) Routing problem (even harder) < 1257623415 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1257623418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: http://www.longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/ < 1257623421 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory address interference problem (even harder) < 1257623427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman solved 'em :-P < 1257623466 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I've heard (and seen) a few websites on ColorForth, never used it personally though < 1257623475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm having a nostalgia trip for OS 9 and older atm < 1257623479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypercard yay! < 1257623482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: k. < 1257623506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post-sys7 sucks hugely, post-sys6 sucks quite a bit < 1257623509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I found something on called "adobe golive 4.0.1" on my ibook. Didn't remember that. < 1257623522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I just find it annoying that Linux now requires more RAM than Win95 did HD space :-/ < 1257623522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os 9 sucks in a colossal manner unsurpassed by any other OS, even Windows < 1257623531 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it < 1257623554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: care to give me fixedsys's m? < 1257623557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fixedsys' < 1257623615 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :###### < 1257623617 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257623619 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257623621 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257623622 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## # ## < 1257623625 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## ## < 1257623632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's simple :P < 1257623658 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixedsys has 2-px wide vertical lines < 1257623743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a shame that optical illusion-style tricks don't really work at 7x10. < 1257623752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 4x3 I even faked the slant on the n... < 1257623971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tweaks bold c and e and maybe d and g to make the metrics more similar to bold a (and thus more similar to roman a, c, d, e and g)
< 1257624006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird's going to kill someone http://www.turtleflight.com/mbh/behavior_table.gif < 1257624019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo the great repeater. < 1257624034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have both PPC and 68k emulated here :) < 1257624036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time, when I posted that, you weren't here, iirc < 1257624042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is 7.5.5 the other being 9.0.4 < 1257624043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't care. < 1257624045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I logread. < 1257624055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweaking my characters feels so wrong; destroying my wonderful babies! < 1257624071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what is that supposed to be? < 1257624080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you logread, I can't see your reaction < 1257624089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Magsbot behavior table < 1257624091 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257624112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magsbot: http://www.turtleflight.com/magine/mb.html < 1257624123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can see my reaction if you logread too. < 1257624150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, what day? < 1257624177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOund it < 1257624189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tweaked characters are slightly uglier but more consistent :( < 1257624210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there we go. < 1257624211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same prettiness now, exce— < 1257624218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that must be why I tweaked them. < 1257624277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are more consistent, granted; but they do not look fat any more. < 1257624291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metrics are now matched, but the perceived metrics are ruined. < 1257624345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I put them back, and tweak the a instead... < 1257624375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a bit strange is that in this gnome-screensaver, there's a "leave a message" option; the message is then shown when the actual user unlocks the screen. The strangeness is in that the dialog showing the message has no special labels, just the message you leave; and it has both "Cancel" and "OK" buttons in it. < 1257624386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/02/toxic-cities-pollution-lifestyle-real-estate-toxic-cities.html hm, maybe I shouldn't go to Pycon :/ < 1257624447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, everyone in the cities listed there die days after arriving. < 1257624449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left some sort of "aaaggagagah zombies!" message on ineiros' laptop the other day, and it was a bit confusing to see a mostly unlabeled "zombies! ok or cancel?" popup as a result. < 1257624464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Offensive, less sarcastic response: Translation: Hurrrrrrrrrr) < 1257624473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1257624493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which did you click, be ehonest < 1257624499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be honest < 1257624524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was him doing the screen-unlocking (and clicking), but I think it was "OK". < 1257624548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMBIES ARE NOT OK < 1257624600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnatune's end-of-track ads ruin Riding the Faders :( < 1257624609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think he's a zombie sympathizer. < 1257624610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're OK if cooked well and served on toast with saurkraut and Russian dressing. < 1257624653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny < 1257624654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All these tracks are supposed to be played without interuption < 1257624655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is your mom < 1257624663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was at Gregor < 1257624667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT GET OFFENDED SGEO :P < 1257624684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Sgeo's mom DOES ruin Riding the Faders. < 1257624695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See, here's a publicly available picture of him: http://irc-galleria.net/user/ineiros/picture/58380030 < 1257624701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Sgeo's mom is also supposed to be played without interruption. < 1257624711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHE IS ALSO DEAD DID I MENTION < 1257624718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must now feel bad like I felt bad. < 1257624727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did not feel bad for oerjan because nobody cares about oerjan.) < 1257624736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((JOKE OKAY JOKE)) < 1257624769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he looks ambiguously gendered < 1257624770 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257624774 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257624875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, so's you! < 1257624992 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257625015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def source ul (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S < 1257625016 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1257625018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1257625018 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1257625153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257625376 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257625410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to go back to n later
< 1257625448 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's such an addictive game < 1257625459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game? < 1257625461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har har < 1257625462 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N < 1257625463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1257625465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1257625482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, someone link me to that unapproved-of swf'd N < 1257625493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you mean that's not the official N game? < 1257625495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need me some ninja-tappin' action ILLICITLY IN MY BROWSER < 1257625499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's identical < 1257625501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracted from the .exe thingy < 1257625523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that the .swf ... I didn't realize that it was intended to be distributed as a .exe < 1257625557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess, I've shattered your infinite nostalgia and now your mind is blown in an incredibly profound way. < 1257625570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have N related nostalgia < 1257625577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow < 1257625666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what do you think of my lowercase k, by the way? I think I did quite well < 1257625666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## < 1257625667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # < 1257625667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # < 1257625667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # ## < 1257625668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1257625669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1257625671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1257625673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## # < 1257625675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1257625677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### ## < 1257625692 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite big < 1257625692 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks good < 1257625703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bold uppercase k is a bit more iffy, though < 1257625724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### < 1257625724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## < 1257625725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## < 1257625725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## < 1257625725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## ### < 1257625726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## ## < 1257625726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #### < 1257625728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ##### < 1257625730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## ## < 1257625732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### ### < 1257625749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the lower bit looks like it's curved < 1257625750 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse serif looks weird < 1257625773 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make the serif go into the "forbidden area" instead < 1257625791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's forbidden for a reason! :P < 1257625796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really look weird zoomed out tbh < 1257625801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit curvaceous < 1257625816 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it'll connect a bit with the next letter, but that's ok actually < 1257625828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll consider it < 1257625841 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 pixel is ok < 1257625861 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't work is when you have a whole line that connects :) < 1257625921 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257625930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my g having no serif looks weird next to my p < 1257625931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1257625941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also wiider by one pixel in the maain area bit < 1257625941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1257625941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you going to use these letters on? < 1257625951 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how abot replacing rows 8 and 9 with 0111100 0110110 ? < 1257625956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little pixel font at the best size (in my opinion) for English text! < 1257625960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: in which letter? < 1257625965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bold k? < 1257625965 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bold k < 1257625979 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would look less squashed < 1257626026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the lack of serifs makes it look very weird < 1257626043 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1257626054 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tat keeps the serifs < 1257626072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I'm not seeing it here < 1257626077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I drew it wrong; make a .png? < 1257626122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think I see what you mean < 1257626135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, not sure < 1257626136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks jagged < 1257626143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't fit with the other chars. < 1257626233 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is ok for serifs to connect with other letters, because they are intended to keep the eye on the row < 1257626276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just using them for flavour ;-) < 1257626284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:-P < 1257626286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate ;-) < 1257626290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think it'll work there < 1257626291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nope < 1257626297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looks shiteating and/or suggestive like always < 1257626386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know what'll be horrific? < 1257626387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italics < 1257626439 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italics you could do by using the righmost row as spacing on the bottom, but the leftmost one on the top < 1257626455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1257626489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onto r < 1257626580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my r seems a bit crooked at the end! oh well, I can fix it later < 1257626641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gulp* < 1257626641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1257626739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was... worryingly easy. < 1257626811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers must really infuriate typesetters in some ways. Now everyone thinks that slanted is the same as italic < 1257626824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1257626838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully no systems nowadays ship with commonly-used fonts without proper italics. < 1257627044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some guy thinks he's going to start a company that.. resells publishing from pfmpricing.com or something. I basically told him that I'll help him set up the sample site, but I'm not putting any money, or much time, into what I feel is a scam < 1257627074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: offering help to people he thinks are scammers and then proceeding to tell us all about how he's not going to really try hard since 2009. < 1257627173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this person is a scammer, just an idiot. It's pfm pricing's services that make me think "scam" < 1257627245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to go onto italics
< 1257627266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So why not tell him he's an idiot and... not help? < 1257627283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what did you say about italic spacing? < 1257627311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's very little effort to "help" in the way that I offered? < 1257627331 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do anything for him? < 1257627337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So helping an idiot in a scam-related activity is fine as long as you (a) don't do much work and (b) tell us all about it? < 1257627341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, get a blog. < 1257627401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either I help him, or he pays $500 for the company to set something up.. although in the latter case, I suspect they'd tell him he misunderstands everything < 1257627447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helping an idiot save $500 to set up an idiotic scheme related to a scam? And thus, in your opinion, preventing an opportunity that might make him stop? < 1257627464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your logic keeps getting more and more robust! Wait, no, the other thing. Flimsy. < 1257627507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, I seem to have lost contact with him, so it may be a moot point < 1257627552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bad thing about all this is, I was talking to him at the same time someone online was telling me about a project I support, so now my feelings about this guy have partially transferred over to the thing I support :/ < 1257627576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have serious issues. < 1257627614 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the curse of indisciminant associative memory < 1257627625 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see what I have for some of the meeting roms in my office < 1257627627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: You too. < 1257627658 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly a case of remembering the one every time the other is experienced < 1257627725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to draw an italic glyph, fails horribly
< 1257627914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/raw_transcripts/Vyb_back_story.txt Now, if some people are more on than yesterday (when there was 8 hours with only join/quit), can you tell me if it is good, or if I missed anything? < 1257627951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe didn't exist ten thousand years ago, and there's only one God. Why do you have Christians? < 1257627958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(↑ Joke.) < 1257627983 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a Forgotten Realms campaign setting for D&D game < 1257628057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't play D&D, but would somewhat like to get started
< 1257628064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has GMed Paranoia
< 1257628101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257628115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I played it, I was.. not that good < 1257628132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION put himself in danger to save another troubleshooter >.>
< 1257628133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 3.5 edition, which I would recommend < 1257628166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give some hints on 3.5 edition if you would like it too, because I played it and am good at defensive play in D&D < 1257628182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/PgUuU.jpg What's wrong with this picture? Answer via /msg. < 1257628250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see what's wrong < 1257628258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see what's wrong immediately < 1257628261 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1257628282 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newspaper pose is a more subtle way to show that < 1257628301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, you're all too details-oriented. :P < 1257628318 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ooh, ooh ooh, let me try testing detail orientation < 1257628322 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds the video
< 1257628457 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid spoilers until you are done watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voAntzB7EwE < 1257628491 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257628493 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, ehird's picture has a seriously SBHJ level of jpeg artefacts) < 1257628502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you sent text messages by telephone by morse-code? < 1257628513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, seen it < 1257628516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1257628526 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it from Phil Platt I think < 1257628532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Plait < 1257628536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't found the issue with ehird's picture yet :/ < 1257628543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody tell him < 1257628544 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: depends on the phone < 1257628551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I gave up < 1257628580 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if it's a pocket computer, you can just download a morse-to-sms app < 1257628611 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ur unf fvk qvtvgf ba rnpu unaq < 1257628628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches for a trackball
< 1257628634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i said no telling < 1257628636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I wonder if you can tell me a proper answer for the Vyb_back_story question, like, do you like this?, and, did I forget anything?, and, is it good?, and, etc.? < 1257628643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, um, no < 1257628646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decodes it
< 1257628661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that < 1257628661 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to assess campign settings < 1257628667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even notice that < 1257628690 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1257628731 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I meant, like, if you have no keyboard and are sending from a standard telephone, or, if you do the reverse, SMS text -> landline. First it should check for fax and TTY, and then, send to voice by morse code, text-to-speech, or spell out, or numeric, etc, depending on some options < 1257628738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, why aren't there more mice/trackballs with real third buttons as well as mousewheels < 1257628752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so either SimonRC didn't get it either, or he was messing with me < 1257628760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter < 1257628770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1257628771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former, I guess < 1257628786 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didi spot something odd < 1257628804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg it < 1257628812 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file is my character's background story text, in case you forgot or didn't know.. < 1257628829 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean I did spot something odd that I then spelt out in rot-13 on the channel < 1257628835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1257628838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not what i meant < 1257629003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: noticed none < 1257629007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see why i should've < 1257629049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to notice stuff you're not explicitly asked to notice < 1257629091 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be helpful < 1257629119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, except when watching a magician < 1257629121 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example studies of "lucky" and "unlucky" people tend to show that the lucky ones notice irrelevant details more easily < 1257629144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257629169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a pretty stereotypical scientist, i have no idea what's going on < 1257629183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually < 1257629292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I have not heard of those studies. But it seems correct, a bit < 1257629354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm just fucking with you, it's the fingers < 1257629373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1257629378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finger thing was trivial < 1257629387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Quick! How much did I just shatter your world? < 1257629432 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH all it did to me was give me that slight sick feeling I get when people make me feel stupid in certain specific ways. < 1257629437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: your rot13 is wrong < 1257629439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond my self-irritation that I didn't include that as a possibility when talking to SimonRC, not much < 1257629453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming i guessed the sentence correctly < 1257629460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: You're crazy! Just like everyone else here. < 1257629464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know rot-13 anymore, it seems < 1257629475 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it says "he has six digits on each hand" < 1257629483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh digits, damn < 1257629494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your MOTHER has etc. < 1257629497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1257629502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot there are synonyms < 1257629507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, why aren't there any three button mice with separate wheels < 1257629521 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have see them < 1257629535 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wheel in the middle of the buton is a bit inconvinient < 1257629543 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you need the openoffice mouse < 1257629546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you put it at the very top < 1257629550 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with about a zillion buttons on it < 1257629551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to the side < 1257629570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@taht mouse < 1257629575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly describes openoffice < 1257629576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1257629578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice joke < 1257629601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably it'd be a trackball for me < 1257629607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, say, trackball on thumb, < 1257629616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three buttons on the next fingers < 1257629625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a wheel below the third button, perhaps? < 1257629633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps between the first button and the wheel. < 1257629639 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This episode makes me recall the fucking Basil puzzle again, which made me lose my appetite a little for a day or two until I learnt to ignore it. Nevery again will I doubt plausibility when a character in some story become dangerously obsessed with something. < 1257629657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. OpenOfficeMouse ISN'T a joke? < 1257629657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Never again < 1257629659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1257629666 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257629672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: See, no, you were right to be skeptic. < 1257629682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: You just didn't account for the fact that you're crazy. :P < 1257629682 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skeptic? when? < 1257629691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nevery again will I doubt plausibility when a character in some story become dangerously obsessed with something." < 1257629695 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257629704 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if I can be that mad, they can be more than that mad < 1257629725 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the way that other people were finding it easy that I didn't like < 1257629736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basil puzzle? < 1257629742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible idea: Keyboardmouse. It's a keyboard you can move around! < 1257629749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it tracks as a mouse. < 1257629918 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: might not exist now that nonlogic has gone down < 1257629932 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who created it BTW? < 1257629963 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause if that person didn't take backups of the website, they might want to contact me < 1257629991 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website was world-readable on nonlogic, and I took a copy < 1257630001 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then I told them it was world-readable) < 1257630017 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nonlogic went down, so I expect they might want a backup < 1257630049 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they didn't mak eone themselves < 1257630191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodger created it. < 1257630213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/4OPEu.png I'd pay $100 for this trackball < 1257630224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257630240 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257630246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said, before crashing and burning. < 1257630300 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't amazon and he like had 100 differnt trackballs available? < 1257630310 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and the like < 1257630318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: *have *different < 1257630326 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257630328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nope. Basically nobody makes trackballs any moree. < 1257630329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more < 1257630344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ones that exist are either pre-scroll wheel, or one-button-scroll-wheel-another-button. < 1257630353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My design there is unique, as far as I can tell. < 1257630380 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out a hacksaw and some glue? < 1257630381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And far superior, too — you can use your... um... finger-right-of-thumb (I suck at the finger names) to scroll, which is much more comfortable than using your middle finger. < 1257630393 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :index finger < 1257630394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fore < 1257630395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet your other fingers can rest on the left and middle buttons. < 1257630405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can follow links and open new tabs in a web browser while scrolling and mousing. < 1257630406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Thursday, I was writing something and made up something a bit strange: Matrix accounting. < 1257630408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or index < 1257630411 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use my index finger on ordinary mice too < 1257630424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More comfortable, almost as easy to access, much better middle button usage. < 1257630427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE MAKE IT QUICK < 1257630428 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like Matrix management < 1257630441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrix accounting is accounting, but with matrix math. < 1257630448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh that design is inferior to what a real product would be; the trackball should be lower < 1257630448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right also first finger < 1257630450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever, it's close enough. < 1257630455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1257630461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not very good for recording transactions, but everything else it does correctly < 1257630469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense is it the first one < 1257630470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAWN OVER IT, PEOPLE < 1257630471 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the concepts "creative" and "accounting" should not go together < 1257630475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, everything in normal accounting has conversions here < 1257630483 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257630488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would never actually use it for recording transactions and stuff. < 1257630494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess fingers are zero-indexed. < 1257630498 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would it do then? < 1257630498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: also, a hacksaw and glue probably wouldn't help. < 1257630509 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: are you the guy who nade the basil puzzle? < 1257630515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257630516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Rodger. < 1257630517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you. < 1257630521 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I wrote it to figure out how to represent partnership agreements in a matrix. And then I realized that everything in accounting can be represented this way. < 1257630521 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, missed that < 1257630527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it Roger < 1257630531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rod?gerTheGreat < 1257630533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rodger the great < 1257630552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rodger the great edible mountain < 1257630565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257630572 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257630582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WTFs at his um, trackpad
< 1257630606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally touch it, and it closes out of a tab < 1257630625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ehird reminded me that I'm hungry >.> < 1257630638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really hungry and really tired but too lazy to eat or sleep. < 1257630658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the trackball ought to include a foam rest fit to the trackball's shape. < 1257630684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so full it hurts, but i'm also very thirsty, which is not a good combination, and i'm also too lazy to sleep even though i'm tired < 1257630692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think i win < 1257630743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw darnit. < 1257630743 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really a bad combination? < 1257630746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dog gammit < 1257630758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: can't drink but have to? < 1257630760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1257630771 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, suppose < 1257630782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i can't drink. < 1257630790 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is not to eat that much < 1257630792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, what a fun prompt < 1257630798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :": prompt goes here; " < 1257630802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: but it's all-you-can-eat < 1257630805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can execute it and it's just a nop < 1257630808 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257630810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and man can i eat < 1257630814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so copy-and-middle-click command repeating becomes easy < 1257630815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls people saying that human thirst is broken, but not sure what is meant by that
< 1257630825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also pizza, and that's why i'm so full. < 1257630847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to literally live on pizza < 1257630859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MEAN YOU LIVED ON A GIANT... < 1257630861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1257630867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been there < 1257630890 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't easily eat pizza until I'm full. I lack the practice to absorb that much fat at once and find myself not wanting to eat more even though there is room. < 1257630892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my last year of high school i basically spent all my days sitting in my armchair eating pizza and watching tv series < 1257630905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ridiculously fast metabolism < 1257630909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: pussy < 1257630916 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my parent brought me up too healthily. < 1257630917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so I am always so thin as to be considered dangerously underweight no matter how much I eat! < 1257630921 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parents < 1257630921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, uh, fun < 1257630925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like being bothered all the time < 1257630940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just doesn't have much of an urge to eat
< 1257630947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love eating. < 1257630958 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, food is awesome < 1257630963 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people always miss out part of the energy equation... < 1257630966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i wouldn't go that far < 1257630969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most food is crap < 1257630977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: which part < 1257630983 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then don't buy the crap food < 1257630985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me rephrase that < 1257630987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1257630993 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delta fat = energy in * digestive efficiency - energy expended < 1257630995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: i don't < 1257631021 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often see people forgetting that differnet peopl absorb different amounts of energy from the same food < 1257631047 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you practice for an eating competition, your digention becomes faster therefore less effective < 1257631052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ PS1='$(echo ~+)$ ' < 1257631052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to say "wat" < 1257631054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257631055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ PS1='$(echo ~+)$ ' < 1257631057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Users/ehird$ < 1257631064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A ~ followed by a + or - is replaced by the value < 1257631064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of $PWD and $OLDPWD respectively." < 1257631148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What software do most people use to make those videos that are just pictures and music? < 1257631164 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS movie maker ;-) < 1257631175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257631176 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that is a good suggestion or not < 1257631202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making such an annoying video is a bad idea in itself. < 1257631218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: 20 minute tribute video consisting of pictures and music: Good idea or bad idea? < 1257631247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how well it is done and what it is about < 1257631263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad idea bad idea bad idea bad IDEA. < 1257631283 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about a game called Mutation < 1257631309 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrgh IRC is such a fucking time-sink < 1257631322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the only reason it's 20min long is because that's the sum of how long all the music from the game as < 1257631323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1257631347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: so go do something else. < 1257631389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: do like me and try to do something useful on the side < 1257631398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do unlike me and manage to actually do it < 1257631406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i say undo like me < 1257631494 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1257631508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that might work even better < 1257631516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to go
< 1257632959 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257633403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that
< 1257633404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257633404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission is granted to copy, modify and distribute this work. < 1257633405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257633405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1257633405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257633406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the best license, or if the permission to use software really isn't implicit, then < 1257633408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257633410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission is granted to use, copy, modify and distribute this work. < 1257633412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257633414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1257633416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257633418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copywrong! < 1257634512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with madbrain is that he doesnt know what the fuck hes talking about < 1257634522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while he may seem interesting, its only because he's full of shit < 1257634523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decisive. Aggressive! < 1257634525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popcorn. < 1257634533 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just bought a popcorn maker. < 1257634556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you cause ehird to jump back in surprise at the offensiveness of an instance of insulting, you know you're on the edge. < 1257634567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, I didn't *physically* jump back. < 1257634575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain. Retort! < 1257634585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest saying that augur is full of shit. < 1257634624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check it out < 1257634633 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive invented a cute little model of syntax, very simple < 1257634637 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stack based! < 1257634653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with augur is that he presents everything really shittily. < 1257634656 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it manages to explain to largely inexplicable phenomena in one fell swoop < 1257634657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1257634663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So while he may seem really boring, it's only because he's not full of shit. < 1257634669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that didn't work. < 1257634674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257634683 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but true, i think < 1257634692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the latter statement failed. < 1257634698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman was interesting and not full of shit. < 1257634698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still true! < 1257634703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know madbrain from elsewhere, incidentally? < 1257634707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1257634708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just here. < 1257634713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just really aggressive :P < 1257634735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just has a really weird notion of what qualifies as the information content of a string of phonemes < 1257634745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that its incredibly difficult to compute that < 1257634760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that relevant to whether it's a good model or not? < 1257634763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1257634765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1257634772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really a problem < 1257634775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's hard to compute < 1257634823 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a problem if you're making claims about the information content of a string of phonemes, yes. < 1257634974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know about my little model of syntax? x3 < 1257635029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only three core operations! < 1257635153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think the bit-measurement when people say things like "english gets 6 b/s" was actual informational content < 1257635160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it actually carries 6 bits of actual information < 1257635163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just distinct elements of the language < 1257635170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see thats very hard to quantify < 1257635174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i kept wondering how people worked out the exact actual bit contents of some information < 1257635190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also how come things on earth about humans can be 6 bits < 1257635196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, we're enumerating the entire logical space here :P < 1257635216 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let me tell you my little mode < 1257635217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1257635218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i realised it was not that awesome < 1257635220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was so boring < 1257635222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're so boring < 1257635223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shut up < 1257635225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1257635230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Have I written this spell good and correctly: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/Suppress_Lycanthropy.txt < 1257635239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proably < 1257635241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably < 1257635247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not write that word good and correctly < 1257635357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok here we go ehird < 1257635367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shut up augur < 1257635370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is my model of All Human Language Syntax < 1257635374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READY? < 1257635381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hate you augur < 1257635383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i really do < 1257635396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than me? < 1257635398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257635405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have thought of something i haven't actually tried, i'm going to put you on /ignore because i am like, fight or flight here < 1257635412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't kill you over the internet < 1257635427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh? you are ignoring augur? < 1257635428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257635437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i am going to have to flight by which i mean /ignore goodbye temporarily please do not take it personally thank you i will probably logread because i have no self control bye < 1257635449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257635451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay logreading now./ < 1257635456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1257635458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257635470 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster! wanna know about language? :o < 1257635477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are sad don't be sad NO I NEVER READ THAT < 1257635480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never read your lines < 1257635482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the log < 1257635484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, one line < 1257635485 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youll LITERALLY be the first person other than me to know this stuff < 1257635486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kinda tired. < 1257635486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1257635489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, you know < 1257635490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count < 1257635557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda lonely without augur babbling < 1257635560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels lonely < 1257635567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's okay when it's just normal silence < 1257635572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is silence sans augur babbling < 1257635576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like... explicit silence < 1257635579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is of my own doing < 1257635580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is my undoing < 1257635588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore my doing is my undoing and all my acts are wrong < 1257635600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would jump out of a window but since that is a thing that i would do it is clearly the wrong thing to do < 1257635608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anmaster! wanna know about language? :o <-- noooooo < 1257635612 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257635669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i do not suggest /ignore as a remedy it causes extreme cancer of the sadness organ < 1257635674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a church organ) < 1257635674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but isn't then not doing it something you would do? < 1257635677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you just did it < 1257635681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1257635683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inaction is not action < 1257635685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1257635700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe I read that as "church oerjan" first < 1257635732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your most excellency augur, < 1257635745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please telepathically transdivinate whether me unignoring you would result in unpleasant babbling < 1257635753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps a return to serene silence, not this noisy, upsetting silence < 1257635757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours truly sincerely, < 1257635760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, conjecture: you can not decide (by free will) to do something you wouldn't do. < 1257635761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird < 1257635767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you ruined my beautiful letter < 1257635772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could be forced to though) < 1257635784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oops didn't see. I was busy writing it < 1257635787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are cluttering my name space and augur thinks my name is ehird, conjecture: you can not decide (by free will) to do something you wouldn't do. < 1257635788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird < 1257635808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your absolute excellent-champion augur, < 1257635808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1257635811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1257635812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257635814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257635816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please discard this letter < 1257635823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? XD < 1257635826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this spell I wrote is an exception to the general rule for creating potions. But I made it like this anyways. < 1257635829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your above-excellent super-liminal superlative augur, < 1257635833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is in fact elliott hird < 1257635834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love, < 1257635836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird < 1257635836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't laughed out < 1257635839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loud < 1257635841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all week before < 1257635850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : love, < 1257635850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, I haven't laughed out < 1257635850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott hird < 1257635851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1257635859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fine at my end AND THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS < 1257635862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for I am a solipsist < 1257635864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh < 1257635866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IRC solipsist < 1257635873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the only client that exists. < 1257635882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are you still on irc then < 1257635894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only game you can play on macs. < 1257635902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, intel macs? < 1257635911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you have classic you can play quite a few more at least < 1257635914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use macintosh system software 5 < 1257635914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea about intel ones < 1257635923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 6 is too bloated for my meagre brain < 1257635930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never seen system 5 < 1257635931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1257635931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually own a macintosh, i just execute the instructions in my head < 1257635935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 1 and system 6 yes < 1257635939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 7 8 and 9 < 1257635949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you did? < 1257635964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the physical world isn't real either, so everything is in my head really < 1257635968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds better this way... < 1257636007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear augury augur, < 1257636014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i substantiate the unignorance of your persona. < 1257636016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very lovely day time, < 1257636018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird < 1257636024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear augury augur, < 1257636027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean night time. < 1257636030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257636030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very lovely correction time, < 1257636032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird < 1257636033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooo < 1257636034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not again < 1257636040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257636041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257636046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1257636046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : very lovely correction time, < 1257636046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott hird < 1257636050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that here < 1257636051 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW ABOUT SUKKY SUKKY LOVE YOU LONG TIME? < 1257636060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, XD < 1257636066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats awesome < 1257636069 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257636075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a reply I mean < 1257636076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apostrophes are awesome < 1257636080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the act in fact < 1257636081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT THAT YOU'D EVER KNOW THAT < 1257636084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you didn't use them < 1257636103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean single-quotes? < 1257636116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thats awesome" < 1257636118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HATE THEM < 1257636118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway augur doesn't use them a lot either < 1257636125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and i hate him too < 1257636126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HATE < 1257636131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, now for a bout of semi-coheerency < 1257636133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1257636136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that? < 1257636145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif < 1257636146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE KEYBOARD TO RULE THEM ALL < 1257636148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE KEYBOARD TO FIND THEM < 1257636151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE KEYBOARD TO BRING THEM ALL < 1257636159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IN THE SCANCODES BIND THEM < 1257636160 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/syntax.html < 1257636163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257636165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1257636175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, nice link (as a contrast) < 1257636177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't open it < 1257636178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One multi-function keyboard layout that tries to combine all the functions of: < 1257636179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The normal 104/105-key PC keyboard < 1257636179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 122-key terminal emulation keyboard < 1257636179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sun keyboard (notice the HELP key on the left) < 1257636179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An APL keyboard (APL symbols are on the right half of the keys) < 1257636180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A LISP keyboard of the Space Cadet variety (Meta, Super, and Hyper... and the symbols on the left half of the keys, even unshifted (. ). and :)" < 1257636205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, awesome < 1257636225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it needs is a trackpoint, a trackpad, a trackball, a mousing surface and a tablet < 1257636227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "and :)"? < 1257636235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just drop it on your desk and sit there FOREVER < 1257636246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unshifted ( ) : < 1257636250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in parens < 1257636255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257636255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Meta, Super, […] (. ). and :) < 1257636260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing I know < 1257636270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh I'd probably buy a keyboard like that < 1257636275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: INNIT AWESOME? < 1257636281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are there two sysrq? < 1257636283 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a whole theory of syntax right there. < 1257636285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. < 1257636285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, didn't open it I said < 1257636289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one's print screen/sys req < 1257636290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think im joking but < 1257636291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and won't < 1257636291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regular key < 1257636293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257636294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257636294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one's a one-key sysreq < 1257636303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just like there's shifted and unshifted () < 1257636307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hum < 1257636311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'd be something satisfying about lobbing that thing on your desk < 1257636311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge < 1257636317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the feeling of being able to control everything < 1257636318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all there < 1257636320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you'd ever need < 1257636320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you set the "mode" or something? < 1257636328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shift or something, who cares < 1257636330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1257636339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be made with capacitive buckling springs, like the Model F < 1257636344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even older, and more clicky, than the Model M < 1257636353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs localised versions for all possible languages. ALL IN ONE < 1257636354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1257636359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd have to have a huge bezel < 1257636359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all buttons has all languages < 1257636369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and both qwerty and dvorak < 1257636373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that classic beige < 1257636374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be < 1257636375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLORIOUS < 1257636413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257636413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257636414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super_merge ([F_..., X_...^...F, ...], H, P) = ([X_...^... → F_... X_...^...F, ...], H ∪ {F_...}, P) < 1257636414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1257636415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub_merge ([F, X_...F, ...], H, P) = ([X_... → F X_...F, ...], F, P ∪ {F_...}) < 1257636415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257636418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you fail at XML forever. < 1257636432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also HTML, also XHTML, also choosing sane markup formats, also at writing markup in said format < 1257636447 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, husuh < 1257636450 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hush. < 1257636459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its supposed to be quick and dirty < 1257636460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works < 1257636482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why is the fucking xml declaration there < 1257636485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the / in
< 1257636496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, firefox won't even render that < 1257636504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take one look at it and spew out an XML error < 1257636519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257636529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the declaration is there fore unicode. < 1257636536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257636548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you fail at quick and dirty hacks! < 1257636560 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::shrug:: < 1257636599 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixe < 1257636600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1257636601 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy? < 1257636613 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt work properly tho < 1257636650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you did it stupidly. < 1257636657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i didnt < 1257636668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put as the first like, replace
with
, and it'll work juuuuuuuust fine. < 1257636670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*line < 1257636691 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the unicode that doesnt work, cuntface < 1257636730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257636737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I retract my advice, though. Cuntface. < 1257636780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fucks you up so hard
< 1257636824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so much happier when I was ignoring you. < 1257636971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ehird < 1257636973 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no unicode at all < 1257636976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ugly text :| < 1257636985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is decidedly not an improvement. < 1257636989 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not! < 1257636990 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1257636998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the best i can do :( < 1257637013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, xhtml. < 1257637015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257637019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's at least ten times as shitty as the last iteration. < 1257637021 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT ILL DO HTML5 < 1257637035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, adding that to the start was all you needed to have valid html5. < 1257637041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also to trigger standards mode < 1257637044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would have fixed shit. < 1257637050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gave up the /ignore? < 1257637054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alas. < 1257637056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reconsidering. < 1257637057 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i did that ehird :( < 1257637060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didnt work :( < 1257637081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fix your fucking server and get it to send the right content-type header, that is my suggestion < 1257637087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mother. < 1257637109 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257637158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how now < 1257637162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BETTER? < 1257637181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, link? < 1257637205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/syntax.html < 1257637224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, looks ok in konqueror? < 1257637227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : super_merge [([F..., X......F, ...], H, P), ...] = [([X...... → F... X......F, ...], H ∪ {F...}, P), ...] < 1257637227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sub_merge [([F, X...F, ...], H, P), ...] = [([X... → F X...F, ...], F, P ∪ {F...}), ...] < 1257637227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : adjoin [([Y, ...], Hi, Pi), ([X, ...], Hj, Pj), ...] = [([X → Y X, ...], Hj, Pj), ...] < 1257637233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what it should look like < 1257637234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257637236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however some font issues < 1257637247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks correct when pasted in irc client < 1257637256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has some boxes in konq < 1257637270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeh, thats the theory of syntax :o < 1257637289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pretty. But I have no clue what it means < 1257637293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257637319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the things that look like X...f with the ...f in subscripts, and nothing in superscripts < 1257637320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, and this is lynx: < 1257637323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : super_merge [([F[...], X[...]^...F, ...], H, P), ...] = [([X[...]^... [...] X[...]^...F, ...], H F[...]}, P), ...] < 1257637323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sub_merge [([F, X[...F], ...], H, P), ...] = [([X[...] X[...F], ...], F, P F[...]}), ...] < 1257637323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : adjoin [([Y, ...], H[i], P[i]), ([X, ...], H[j], P[j]), ...] = [([X X, ...], H[j], P[j]), ...] < 1257637327 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means "An X that needs an f" < 1257637342 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok let me rephrase that < 1257637343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, I DIDN'T ASK WHAT IT MEANT < 1257637348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine :| < 1257637349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said I didn't understand it < 1257637364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a lameface < 1257637383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, maybe. But I'm sure there are stuff I'm better at < 1257637424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar argh fix it < 1257637436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1257637460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it is manifestly inferior to anything else because it's xhtml. < 1257637470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that; inconsistently-capitalised xhtml < 1257637472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PuBLIC" < 1257637475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"en-uS" < 1257637479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even sure that's valid. < 1257637485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is stuff i'm better at < 1257637485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not are < 1257637524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, am you sure about that? < 1257637529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die die die < 1257637541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are that? < 1257637548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK DEATH DIE ARGH RAGE < 1257637551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREAMING FIRE < 1257637568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is you reacting this strongly to it? < 1257637577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiredness :D < 1257637580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mirth < 1257637592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :D < 1257637594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1257637597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it in that line < 1257637599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUUUCK ARGH sfjgsdiofhgljh < 1257637603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so tired i didn't notice < 1257637606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257637608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't trust ANYTHING that happens until I sleep < 1257637612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I even actually typing this? < 1257637616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1257637617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does my computer actually exist? < 1257637617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1257637619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257637620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do *I* exist? < 1257637636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you asserted you were the *only* thing existing before < 1257637651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is the reverse? < 1257637657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are the only thing *not* exisiting < 1257637674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i am freaking out! < 1257637679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you tell that to someone on drugs? < 1257637680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1257637684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN DON'T TELL ME WHEN I'M TIRED < 1257637688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are on drugs? < 1257637693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but same thing basically < 1257637720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe no one exists < 1257637728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we are all dreaming that we exist < 1257637732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nothing exists < 1257637738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257637740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that < 1257637743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one < 1257637745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not nothing < 1257637749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you peoplecentricitythingy < 1257637750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257637762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "nothing" though probably < 1257637785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i exist more than you < 1257637952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, except since ∀x(Human(x) → Existance(x) → 0) that "more" is insignificant < 1257637968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note to self: don't mix syntax from different parts of math like that, it's confusing) < 1257637981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second arrow is "limit" the first is "implies" < 1257637987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to clarify < 1257638031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great what the hell. That wasn't supposed to happen. < 1257638032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to AnMaster, don't futz together some random mathematical notation in a blatantly obvious "look at me i know mathematics" < 1257638034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh so tired < 1257638038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods rythmbox
< 1257638052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it wasn't that. < 1257638078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhythm. < 1257638083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah whatever < 1257638105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it fucked up anyway. Some sort of shuffle even when that was disabled < 1257638123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs and note he should go back to the command line alternative again. Works better.
< 1257638144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care, i really care, i'm trying to care, don't be a bastard < 1257638146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do it < 1257638149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't care. < 1257638173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about? < 1257638180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:55] • AnMaster sighs and note he should go back to the command line alternative again. Works better. < 1257638184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don'ts care about? < 1257638194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgjk;' < 1257638194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257638197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OW < 1257638198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1257638204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rolled my finger along the home row < 1257638209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1257638211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hit the spiky edge of my enter key < 1257638217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :propped up slightly < 1257638219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a bit broken < 1257638221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow ow ow ow ow < 1257638225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh nice spiky keyboard < 1257638225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scissor-switch board = sharp key edges) < 1257638239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think everyone is sleeping in this housees or something < 1257638240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quiet < 1257638255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*house < 1257638290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A trackball mouse with a foot pedal!" < 1257638294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a wonderful idea! < 1257638295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1257638301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the pedal would be for? < 1257638305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking < 1257638305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking? < 1257638306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257638306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1257638333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trackball mice for your toes. < 1257638340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would be trivial to wire up to the toe brakes of some flightsim rudder pedals < 1257638342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get some use out of those buggers. < 1257638345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Cool Accessories Dept., the TopTrack comes with a silver and gold fabric mouse cozy. A mouse cozy! My wife wonders why anyone would need to keep a mouse warm. Obviously she has no heart. Personally, I can see reasons for modem cozies as well." < 1257638346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^___^ < 1257638347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you would have left/right click < 1257638352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, heels! < 1257638354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just a few lines in the X config I expect < 1257638369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be a good foot pedal though < 1257638372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no gradual action needed < 1257638376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be tactile < 1257638385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well hm. ok < 1257638398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure am looking forward to never double-clicking again < 1257638406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah those are all analogue inputs < 1257638409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∀x(Human(x) → Existance(x) → 0) <<< so what exactly is the natural topology of implications? i'm having a hard time interpreting this < 1257638410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257638418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1257638428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, eh? Are you saying precedence order? < 1257638454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, as I said the second one is NOT an implication, but a limit < 1257638481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so: < 1257638504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∀x(Human(x) →[implies] (Existance(x) →[limit] 0)) < 1257638509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, clearer? < 1257638592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, did you know that ed is fun and advanced?! < 1257638596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ed < 1257638596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r !ls < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390 < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,s/^/less / < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w !sh < 1257638598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the second one is a limit < 1257638601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390 being output from ed < 1257638606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads the result of `ls` into the buffer < 1257638607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't know what limits mean for implications < 1257638612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm asking what their natural topology is < 1257638614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't ed TC iirc? < 1257638615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces start of line with "less " in all lines < 1257638618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1257638619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writes it to a shell < 1257638624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, eh? < 1257638628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet you didn't know it could do that < 1257638635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i just don't know what limits mean for implications <-- nothing. < 1257638648 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257638667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killjoy < 1257638671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in this case however "being human implies your "existence level" goes towards 0" < 1257638711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh should've read your "clearer" thingie, since i indeed misinterpreted what's limit is being taken < 1257638721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well whose) < 1257638751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi < 1257638755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admire how cool ed actually is! < 1257638766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the same things work in vi by putting : in front. < 1257638773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, fair enough. It wasn't exactly standard notation (to put it mildly) < 1257638781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it TC or not? < 1257638786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit < 1257638786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1257638787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not incidentally < 1257638788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1257638792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well, yeah < 1257638793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not certain < 1257638797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex is a subset of ed after all < 1257639424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: baizng < 1257639426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bazing < 1257639755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves how worlds in AW can set what should only be settable by the user
< 1257639833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forcing me to, say, have a visibility of 100m is obnoxious for those on poorer graphics cards < 1257639872 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257639886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION toys with the idea of registering in Active Worlds, invading everywhere and setting up scripts that ruins everything
< 1257639891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea rejection ticket < 1257639893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, s/loves/hates/ then? < 1257639895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason: Too tired < 1257639899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolved: WONTFIX < 1257639907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah < 1257639913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's called sarcasm < 1257639914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolved: LATER < 1257639914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-08T00:25Z < 1257639921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, WONTFIX < 1257639922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah. Too tired < 1257639925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are execu-fucking tive < 1257639928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we make decisions now < 1257639931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move onto other decisions < 1257639934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the SHIT out of them < 1257639937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXECU-FUCKING TIVE < 1257639938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257639943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, the worse you can do is make something to destroy all tourist property in, say, AWTeen < 1257639943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking corporate and all that shit. < 1257639944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257639954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm sure i could figure out something < 1257639956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: observant it is indeed night < 1257639961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i notice you omitted the arrow < 1257639973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe spam goatse in public areas < 1257639977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oops yeah I forgot it < 1257639981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of fucking corporate decisions and shit < 1257639983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://buttersafe.com/2008/08/21/corporate-finance/ < 1257639983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↓ is what I meant < 1257639986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's more of an AWNewbie problem < 1257639987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257639995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one goes to AWNewbie anymore, so < 1257640011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW...booby < 1257640071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some X rated worlds in AW >.> < 1257640143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot think of a single meaning of >.> there that isn't creepy or sad. < 1257640180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, the fact that I know that there are X rated worlds is what I thought was suspicious < 1257640196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're not accessible without setting an option to allow one to see them) < 1257640210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to make things worse < 1257640220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually been to one < 1257640283 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257641688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257642412 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257642447 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257642858 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257642927 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257642939 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257643000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on people. < 1257643016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's pwned codu through Hackiki yet. < 1257643019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get with the program. < 1257643769 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1257643773 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1257643812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on augur, pwn codu! < 1257643819 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats codu < 1257643827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/ < 1257643832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, the box that runs that. < 1257643848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're challenging people to hack it? < 1257643857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackiki.codu.org/ < 1257643864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised that I could put that up and NOT see somebody hack it. < 1257643869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will do it Gregor if you will entertain my talk! < 1257643890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one entertain someone's talk ... < 1257643898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor, i dont get it < 1257643902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we supposed to do < 1257643924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/rm: cannot remove root directory `/' < 1257643927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It's a wiki that runs nearly-arbitrary code. Figure out how to escape its security restrictions and kill codu people! < 1257643931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi i broked it < 1257643954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/rm: cannot remove `/bin': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/dev': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/etc': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/hackiki': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib64': Permission denied /bin/rm: cannot remove `/tmp': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/usr': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cann < 1257643955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove `/var': Function not implemented < 1257643955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am sad < 1257643957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i suggest it to adrian lamo? < 1257643968 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be too cruel to do to the codu server? < 1257643978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, look at augur, it's time for his special show < 1257643982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hack is boring. < 1257643985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look At Me I Am Totally In Bed With A Leet Haxor < 1257643987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's easily reverted. < 1257643992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: shush < 1257643993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not in bed with adrian lamo. :| < 1257643995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes like < 1257643997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sacramento < 1257644000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im not < 1257644029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a solvable problem. < 1257644033 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is! < 1257644034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: entertaining someone's talk is answering their all important questions about death. < 1257644036 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would require money < 1257644045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, he's got a boybitch < 1257644056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: YOU COULD BE THAT BOYBITCH < 1257644061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not. < 1257644062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257644077 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Also a solvable problem! Just a more complicated one to solve. < 1257644089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hackiki/bin/.wiki: line 3: tree: command not found < 1257644117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: bin: Function not implemented < 1257644117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: lib: Function not implemented < 1257644118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: templates: Function not implemented < 1257644119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why don't you just use the arbitrary command runner. < 1257644124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you're just running arbitrary commands ... < 1257644126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more carnage, < 1257644128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destruction, < 1257644129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex < 1257644144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're supposed to cause irreversible damage to codu, not trivially-reversible damage to the wiki. < 1257644147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY ENTERTAIN MY BARK < 1257644154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tree bark < 1257644155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not dog bark < 1257644164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to answer questions about death :P < 1257644204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it reverted yet? < 1257644222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1257644233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cromyomlancy! < 1257644241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1257644242 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ help.txt \ huh \ karma \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.20700 < 1257644280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://hackiki.codu.org/wiki/ < 1257644295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw it doesn't work < 1257644335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hack CODU, not end users ;)0 < 1257644396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesens't work :( < 1257644412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it irreversibly damages codu's readerbase < 1257644417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1257644423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck what was my q— oh yes < 1257644433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i'm going to bother you some more about wearable computing MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1257644437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so evil. evil and tired < 1257644441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mainly tired) < 1257644478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, ask fast 'cuz I'll be gone at any minute :P < 1257644487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; but i am le tired < 1257644499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a nap at this point, then fire ze missiles < 1257644512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: okay so since the myvu thing is only 640x480 < 1257644516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have the dpi set up really high < 1257644521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you only fit like < 1257644522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 words < 1257644523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the screen < 1257644538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few more than there, but it's pretty few, yes. < 1257644548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257644548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1257644551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than THREE that is < 1257644555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1257644564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many lines of ~80col text would you guess < 1257644604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think it can display 80-column rows :P < 1257644609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257644617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay methinks i may need to find non-myvu options < 1257644624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how well is it operating btw < 1257644633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works great, I use it for PIM-ish stuff. < 1257644644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, an actual practical wearable computing application? < 1257644646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a first < 1257644657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know when /me was invented? < 1257644661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm crazy enough to want to use my not-yet-existing one for programming < 1257644666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that an original feature of irc? < 1257644669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: with ctcp. maybe slightly earlier < 1257644674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CTCP ACTION < 1257644686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257644688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the main barrier to programming is the screen and the keyboard, right? < 1257644702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say so. < 1257644724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen I have no idea, keyboard I think my current plan is to use a FrogPad since it's tiny and has big keys and stuff < 1257644728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is apparently usable for real typing < 1257644743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer something with mechanical keyswitches because tactile response is quite important, but those are all heavy. < 1257644763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done anything with that tiny metal keyboard? PIM stuff doesn't really use it... < 1257644933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lag is him typing on his tiny metal keyboard after leaving. < 1257644936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly inspiring. < 1257645004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SALUTE YOU SIRE < 1257646157 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257646247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun hack: < 1257646252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have your builder thingy do < 1257646256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s $(which interp) . < 1257646262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in your interpreted program just do < 1257646264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!interp < 1257646280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works in the same dir though... < 1257646350 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-82.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257647730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help me pic a watch < 1257647730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kennethcole.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3579841 < 1257647732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=249949&CategoryID=29196 < 1257647733 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=379381&CategoryID=31167 < 1257647735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=377836&CategoryID=29205 < 1257647791 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257648229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i recommend a watch that costs $5. < 1257648266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet, a smartphone that also — gasp — doubles up as a watch < 1257648450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ponder: does being indirectly told to reevaluate your priorities by someone who considers spending $250 on a keyboard sane mean that you're really off the deep end, or just have different priorities?) < 1257648456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just joking, it's the former) < 1257648949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to have a separate watch from his cell phone
< 1257648959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1257648970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an expensive one, just so I don't have to take out my cell phone constantly. Especially during tests or in the rain < 1257648999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a wrist computer, or better— a wearable computer! < 1257649013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ludwig Mies van der Rohe would like a word with you, though. < 1257649019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ornament is crime, after all. You could get arrested. < 1257649026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that was Adolf Loos. < 1257649032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, who cares, they're all the same.[1] < 1257649039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Apologies to all three architects out there < 1257649123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hasn't anyone invented a general better syntax for writing things since LaTeX. < 1257649132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, the \cmd{arg} construction) < 1257650013 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257651256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257653572 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for a new language < 1257653585 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called GPL and every valid program starts with the GPL license < 1257653600 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is treated as a comment but without it the compiler will error) < 1257655853 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257658324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257659664 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257661194 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log-reading ehird, i have an iphone. < 1257661260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: does your name happen to be richard stallman? < 1257661528 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard `rms` stallman < 1257661538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1257661640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TTP Project < 1257662926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fax! < 1257663131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257663235 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257663290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257663329 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257663357 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257663971 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257664728 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey bsmntbombdood :) < 1257664738 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen you in forever < 1257665055 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257665067 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run out of steam :P < 1257665325 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are in university right? < 1257665424 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257665437 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? < 1257665442 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you are < 1257665446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257665877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too depressed for that sort of thing < 1257665887 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(((( < 1257665979 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntspacedood I am watching sealab 2021 < 1257666006 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar < 1257666016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am watching er < 1257666021 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257667135 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1257667199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257667200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257667530 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257668760 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668760 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668768 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668871 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Guest7354!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257669994 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669994 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670000 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670000 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670006 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670006 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670008 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257672904 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672904 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672904 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672915 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672919 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672919 0 :lifthrasiir!i=tWSFYwwx@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672927 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Guest7354!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257673262 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257673350 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257675115 0 :fax!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257675314 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257676430 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257678042 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257678519 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257679748 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257680810 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257681548 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257682548 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257683771 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257684043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:19:54 log-reading ehird, i have an iphone. < 1257684043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do not buy a watch. < 1257684139 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257684848 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@82.66.176.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257685690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257685705 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257685766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ninite.com/ Windows users discover the package manager... uh, installer. < 1257686206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth is file sharing? < 1257686215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err lol < 1257686218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1257686220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed "Other" < 1257686220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257686223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257686232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :share dem geographamagical location filezzz < 1257686262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking you could take pictures of places they don't have ones for yet :P < 1257686318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait they have like 5 apps everyone already has < 1257686328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well more like 40 but anyway < 1257686336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then do not buy a watch. <-- what about during tests? You aren't allowed to have a cell phone then < 1257686352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any number of things? < 1257686368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? < 1257686373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Among them moving to Denmark; they let you use the internetwebs now. :P) < 1257686389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, during tests in school/at university? < 1257686394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257686397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some, I think. < 1257686406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not things like mathematics and the like. < 1257686413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Danish exams. Or was it English? < 1257686422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, math was the stuff I was thinking of primarily here < 1257686423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't remember what schooling level. High school or university, probably. < 1257686427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? computers would be the least useful for mathematics < 1257686429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257686440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that's the point < 1257686444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wolfram alpha + wikipedia < 1257686447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty helpful < 1257686449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anything else being able to get information is useful < 1257686468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1257686472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1257686478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what about running a CAS on the computer? < 1257686479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah if it's basic course in monkey integration < 1257686485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway won't the test room have a clock in it < 1257686493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 90% of the rooms in the world have a clock in them :-P < 1257686531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all our test rooms have clocks in them, but in few they are positioned in such a way that you can't see them from where i sit. < 1257686534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at the university I'm at: all rooms except none of the rooms in the newest building. (strange yes) < 1257686541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. < 1257686557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, buy a $5 watch then and take it when you need it. But augur linked to watches in the vicinity of $150. < 1257686579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think there are some outside in the corridor in the newest building. But that is all. < 1257686602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he also thinks about what clothes to buy, i find that even weirder < 1257686613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, agreed < 1257686621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so basically he's stereotypically gay :-P < 1257686622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean clocks at least make this fun clicking sound < 1257686632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watches don't really tick much. < 1257686634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clothes don't do anything < 1257686639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah crappy ones don't < 1257686665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you dislike digital watches? < 1257686668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually tried to buy loudly ticking clocks with vjn once < 1257686685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "tried"? < 1257686686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rate clothes based on either comfort or boringness/cheapness, former for indoors, latter for outdoors < 1257686687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wanted to put them in a ring and make the ticking spin around < 1257686708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there simply aren't loudly ticking clocks. no existo. < 1257686722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't want comfort outside? < 1257686726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that cotton clothes intended for night usage are the only really comfortable clothes < 1257686739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus saving money by having to buy half the clothes, take that capitalism < 1257686750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something, I don't know < 1257686755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still residually tired from yesterday < 1257686768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have not yet seen a clothing item suitable for outdoor usage that is comfortable < 1257686771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rate shirts like this: black t-shirt without any noticeable deviation from the ideal form of black t-shirts ok, others discarded. < 1257686775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm ~~~sensitive~~~ < 1257686782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how you define "comfort" < 1257686782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate tshirts, gotta have something on my arms < 1257686794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm usually as naked as possible < 1257686800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clothes are annoying < 1257686807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would say a thick jacket is more comfortable outdoors than a thin one when it is -15C or so < 1257686810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know it when i see it.... as an approximation let's say the least noticeable < 1257686819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although softness is good, skin is kinda icky :-P < 1257686824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1257686830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean comfort as in discarding practicality < 1257686834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257686837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ignoring temperature < 1257686846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not pockets then? < 1257686859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any pockets at the moment < 1257686864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discarding pockets was the first thing I thought of when you said "discarding practicality" < 1257686868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need to carry around anything unless I'm going out < 1257686874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you stick your hands then? < 1257686886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: on the keyboard :D < 1257686904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where do you keep your credit card and such if you don't have any pockets? < 1257686906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean right now < 1257686911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, either by my side or crossing my arms. < 1257686927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm obviously naked so no pockets either < 1257686930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have much opportunity to stand doing nothing indoors, so much exciting stuff to do and all < 1257686954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't have a credit card. I do have a debit card thingy, but it's expired. I wouldn't put it anywhere indoors. < 1257686959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put it in my pockets to go out, naturally. < 1257686970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you leave it outdoors all the time? < 1257686988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my house has places to put things, you know < 1257686999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it was clearly a joke < 1257687000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys just have all your possessions in your pockets (that would be kinda cool) < 1257687005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: was it < 1257687007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much do < 1257687010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "I wouldn't put it anywhere indoors." <-- a joke about that... < 1257687015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1257687018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i also carry my computer baggie < 1257687022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I don't read my own lines < 1257687026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257687029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just forget to put stuff in there if it fits my pockets < 1257687047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is so huge he puts his laptop in his pocket < 1257687054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257687055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MORE YOU KNOW ===========================================* < 1257687070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alas, I couldn't fit the umbrella in there if I put my laptop there too < 1257687072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==* < 1257687083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=* wait, why are we drawing penises on icr < 1257687085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use an umbrella < 1257687085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irc < 1257687092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd miss all the rain < 1257687094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what oklopol said just open your mouth < 1257687097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drink all the rain < 1257687098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE BIG ENOUGH < 1257687112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with all the pollution these days? < 1257687124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft pollution < 1257687126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's acid rain. just like LSD! < 1257687127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you about pollution < 1257687130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in pollution < 1257687143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really all i wanted to tell you < 1257687149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i bet you didn't believe in getting less than a 5 either did you huh < 1257687153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHH < 1257687154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice burn < 1257687158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got another 4 < 1257687163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was from this... < 1257687164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257687176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257687178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was like finnish < 1257687192 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257687197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like finnish"? < 1257687198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules for writing scientific shit are slightly different than the rules in high school, and i didn't feel like reading them < 1257687203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257687205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course was < 1257687208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about like finnish < 1257687226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. what about the "like" bit then? < 1257687235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1257687246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what like means, "fix the errors in this sentence" < 1257687252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it sounded like "similar, but not exactly the same" < 1257687252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to acquire a model f
< 1257687255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ambiguities and shti < 1257687259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit < 1257687260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for AnMaster to call his typo
< 1257687278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what typo= < 1257687281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257687283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah it could mean that too < 1257687291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:34] * ehird wants to acquire a model f < 1257687293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("similar, but not...") < 1257687303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't know what a model f is < 1257687307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1257687308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't, and the like construct requires you to know what i mean < 1257687310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were gonna go *model m < 1257687311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257687320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it what you meant? < 1257687326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1257687329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a model f is one of these babies: http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257687341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the odd alt/caps lock keys, ctrl-where-caps-lock-is-nowadays (yes i know anmaster) < 1257687346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and odd layout in general < 1257687365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use capacitive buckling springs, which is like the model m membrane buckling springs but better < 1257687376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? Why did the shape the keys like one of those tetris blocks... < 1257687378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/moparx/3887360487/ another model, this one has more off the weird keycaps < 1257687383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a seemingly more compact layout < 1257687385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the one like: < 1257687387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # < 1257687388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### < 1257687397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the alt and caps lock? < 1257687407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manufacturing ease, I guess, or something < 1257687409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't read at that low res < 1257687412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably < 1257687412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it was in the 80s < 1257687417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257687420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257687421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that a reason? < 1257687422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not really low res < 1257687429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter is pretty tetris too < 1257687439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nobody had really decided which way to do big keys was best? < 1257687440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1257687443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, less so < 1257687444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's in my current keyboard too, it seems < 1257687446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that enter is the ISO layout enter < 1257687451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg < 1257687456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher res photo of a slightly different model < 1257687464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numpad joined together and more of the weird-style keys < 1257687467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257687473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the Personal Computer XT, I think < 1257687476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no arrow keys? :( < 1257687479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the first one, a Personal Computer AT < 1257687487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: these shipped with the original ibm pc < 1257687512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something to note in http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg < 1257687516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the european layout, but @ is on 2 < 1257687519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and " is on ' < 1257687522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the american layout < 1257687531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh < 1257687533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ' is shown as a closing quote with ` being its flipping < 1257687541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't seen a keyboard with @ elsewhere < 1257687547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :european boards. < 1257687552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the multi-line enter < 1257687557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg, esc is next to 1 < 1257687563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ` is relocated to before enter < 1257687572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I just want them for their keyfeel < 1257687572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Swedish keyboards, multi-line enter, @ is on altgr-2 < 1257687580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough to get an adapter to PS/2 < 1257687586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not that easy, but still < 1257687588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, fine < 1257687588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however I remember old swedish mac keyboards used to have @ elsewhere < 1257687591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot where < 1257687616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old here means "early imacs and older, gone by G4 already" < 1257687627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: When the first boards with the control/alt next to each other were made, ctrl was next to space and alt was further away. < 1257687634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more ergonomic because most shortcuts use ctrl. < 1257687645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they switch them then? < 1257687648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was changed for some unfathomable reason. OS X has Command in the position Ctrl used to be. < 1257687653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is good. < 1257687657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy enough to remap, anyway. < 1257687663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other OSs) < 1257687674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it hard to remap in OS X btw? < 1257687714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll demonstrate with a picture. < 1257687746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1257687749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't hit alt-s (current placement) with part of the palm for the alt. But it works with ctrl. Not sure if that is an argument for or against the current placement though < 1257687749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It screenshotted incorrectly. < 1257687751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try again. < 1257687778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting modifier keys with the palm is the Right Thing. < 1257687785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people don't do it, though. < 1257687785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however using part of your palm for ctrl is a bit cramped. So probably an argument against < 1257687795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not cramped, it's the ergonomically correct way. < 1257687826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah I have to use the thumb for s when my palm is able to reach ctrl. otherwise I have to curl up the fingers rather badly. < 1257687855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on laptop it doesn't work at all < 1257687879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fn is outermost and you can't really get the hand in the right position for it there anyway < 1257687899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fn can't be remapped because it doesn't work like normal keys < 1257687935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't generate a key event in fact, until you press some other key as well < 1257687955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1257687956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/8YeGr.png < 1257687956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/1W6iS.png < 1257687984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1257688012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg one isn't feasible < 1257688019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no XT→anything adapters available < 1257688046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, build one? < 1257688072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That idea fails right at the start as I couldn't get an FPGA with an XT input for obvious reasons. < 1257688094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't really mind the layout being more "conventional"; I'm pretty sure the weird-style keys aren't very nice anyway. < 1257688105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Esc next to the 1? Hot hot hot. Want. < 1257688108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but I can just remap that. < 1257688134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I fail to see why that is required. Just build a circuit that converts the pins from the keyboard to the right voltage ranges for an FPGA and put that in between. < 1257688137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1257688144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not even need that. < 1257688147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get a slot for the pins to go into, you see. < 1257688155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, solder the wires onto it? < 1257688170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This idea keeps getting worse, worse, and more out of my league. < 1257688180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, look at the position of Esc in http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257688183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nezxt to Num Lock < 1257688184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Next < 1257688187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above 7 < 1257688197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay that is a good reason. But soldering the wires directly to the circuit board wouldn't be hard. < 1257688200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That numpad button layout is freaky-deaky < 1257688226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, esc is where numlock usually is? < 1257688233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Num Lock is next to it < 1257688235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on modern ones I mean < 1257688282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That board could work quite well even on a modern computer actually. Remap the keys a bit to have a convenient Esc (if you want to use vim, that is). Map the Caps Lock to the Windows key (for e.g. controlling window manager and other keyboard shortcuts) (bottom-right key below right shift). You already have Ctrl and Alt in a semi-convenient place. < 1257688296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who could resist assigning a bank of hotkeys to that lovely F block? < 1257688339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember when he last used escape in emacs
< 1257688350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you press Alt, kiddo. < 1257688361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but I meant the key marked esc < 1257688373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never, it's identical to holding Altt. < 1257688374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Alt < 1257688381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know that < 1257688400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering if I ever used esc instead of holding alt < 1257688403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257688504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a better picture of the usable-today Model F: < 1257688511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8276/img3347nvm.jpg < 1257688515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(big) < 1257688524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus connector. < 1257688542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look at the LEDs. < 1257688549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caps Lock, Num Lock, Scroll Lock. < 1257688550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaky! < 1257688553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't there keyboards with up to F24 or such? < 1257688560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminal boards? Yeah. < 1257688567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it would be annoying only having up to F10 < 1257688569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things were fucking beasts. < 1257688570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than F12 < 1257688576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1257688583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The F keys are pretty unused. < 1257688596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh. Switching between VTs in linux for example? < 1257688609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, just map Windows+F1-2 to F11-12 < 1257688617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows being the Caps Lock in that picture < 1257688624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't use that many consoles. < 1257688631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even 6 terminals is a lot. < 1257688636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Caps Lock, Num Lock, Scroll Lock. < 1257688636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Freaky! < 1257688638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257688644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Num Lock goes first since forever. < 1257688652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good point < 1257688660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time Num Lock is on, so for the vast majority of time just the middle light will be on. < 1257688664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there are arrow keys there, you know. < 1257688672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You access them by turning off Num Lock. < 1257688679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, numlock is usually off in my experience? < 1257688690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does typing the numpad give numbers? < 1257688693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Num Lock is on. < 1257688697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it doesn't < 1257688718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this another "I am AnMaster and my obscure use case is the entire world" session? < 1257688725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. < 1257688731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm using the laptop :P < 1257688737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur hur hur < 1257688741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the Model F weighs 3 kg. < 1257688744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thereabouts. < 1257688766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should show this to everyone who claims that the Model M is built like a tank, ever. < 1257688771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a little bit more than an slightly above average laptop then? < 1257688777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* < 1257688777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a terminal Model F. That'd be a beast. < 1257688788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But not very evenly distributed. < 1257688791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing will feel HEAVY. < 1257688805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you mean? < 1257688811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A terminal Model F would have all the crazy F keys, the numpad-like arrow key formation with the middle button, a few weird-ass keys... < 1257688820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is heavier at one end? < 1257688826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a laptop isn't? < 1257688827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be gigantic, heavy as fuck, loud as fuck, tactile as fuck and AWESOME AS FUCK. < 1257688832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much at least) < 1257688848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say a Model F would feel 2x as heavy as a 3 kg laptop. < 1257688850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a guess, though. < 1257688858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, picture of a terminal keyboard? < 1257688871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will find a good one. Sec. < 1257688886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4833&stc=1&d=1254255319 < 1257688888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD. < 1257688891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Model M terminal board. < 1257688909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same but extra F keys? that's all? < 1257688914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1257688915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are blind. < 1257688918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a nice day. < 1257688918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a "rule" one too < 1257688920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more < 1257688924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is the rule one? < 1257688930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the arrow keys and the keys above, the whole keyblock to the left. < 1257688932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the numpad. < 1257688940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are GIGANTIC. < 1257688954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra keys are for terminals. < 1257688961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, numpad looks fairly normal apart from *some* of those blue labels < 1257688970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, I like the num lock key. It's scroll lock too. < 1257688974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a compromise for such a huge board. < 1257688981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It has a space key on the /. < 1257688985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "home/pgup" and such on the numeric ones. are on my keyboard < 1257688985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the + key doubles up as tab. < 1257688991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm *why* < 1257688998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accountants. < 1257689000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data entry. < 1257689002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the numpad is for. < 1257689005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1257689007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257689010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you think it was for — emulating a calculator? < 1257689031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at that numpad area. "FidMk\n\nFA2\n\blue{PgUp}" < 1257689040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, and more on the side. < 1257689045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChgRq? Can't read it properly. < 1257689047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best key ever. < 1257689049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, more like a well aligned set of keys that you can use for 8 directions in tile based games (of course not) < 1257689058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just have that key and some modifiers. < 1257689063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do EVERYTHING. < 1257689075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1257689077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not numpad area < 1257689078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrow key area < 1257689080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1257689089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but why "rule"? < 1257689098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you press that I wonder < 1257689108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a horizontal rule in a word processor? Or something. < 1257689136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copy\n\nPlay". Did they have Logic Pro in the 1980s? :-P < 1257689144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Test" below that; how convenient. < 1257689147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer, test my software < 1257689152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Computer, test my software! < 1257689165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That huge terminal board is just 2.36 kg. < 1257689166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Copy\n\nPlay". Did they have Logic Pro in the 1980s? :-P <-- I don't get it? < 1257689174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So saying that the much smaller Model F is 3 kg... < 1257689179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and imagining a Model F terminal board... < 1257689180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TANK < 1257689186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset\nctrl\nquit? < 1257689187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257689208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Logic Pro = Apple's acquiring of eMagic Logic = professional music software < 1257689219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad has Logic for the Atari ST. :-) < 1257689220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow at the "profile" picture in http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5264&page=2 < 1257689230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He bought the ST on the day it came out in the UK. < 1257689235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The risers on these are good fun, on the high setting the top is about 12cm off the desk:" < 1257689246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell < 1257689277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257689289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he works with music? < 1257689306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also that tab key is a bit strange < 1257689309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ← < 1257689316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → < 1257689317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ← < 1257689317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He used to be involved with that sort of stuff, but he's been a phone-call technician for an audio technology company for as long as I can remember. < 1257689318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1257689322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1257689327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the lower arrow wrong < 1257689328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1257689329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257689330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Atari ST worked as of some years ago. < 1257689332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant* < 1257689332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it < 1257689345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It played Monkey Island like a champ; and old audio software sure is confusing. < 1257689350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least when you're a kid like I was... < 1257689361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is more confusing than modern audio software? < 1257689365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't it work any longer? < 1257689368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resolutions are fun; the high one is much taller than it is wide so it's hard to read any text. < 1257689379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; I haven't been to his house since ~2005. < 1257689393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? parents split up? :/ < 1257689394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, I'd say it's more confusing to get to know, but much more understandable after that. < 1257689397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a guess. < 1257689401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, when I was 3 < 1257689422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"atari monkey island" in google image source doth not produce useful results < 1257689432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Also, I'd say it's more confusing to get to know, but much more understandable after that. <-- "it" meaning modern or old? < 1257689435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. http://www.scummbar.com/games/monkey1/images/atari.gif < 1257689439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Old. < 1257689469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh that geekhack page you linked: http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/6110344/front_1v.jpg < 1257689471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*On < 1257689474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Model F terminal board! < 1257689479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1257689480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks just as much like a tank as I'd expect. < 1257689480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1257689492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the text under those F keys at the top < 1257689493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't read it < 1257689499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor can I. < 1257689622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why stop at 24 function keys < 1257689650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to match the current trend we should really have 64-bi^Wfunction keyboard < 1257689708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To input a number, hold down the keys F1-64 to insert a binary number, and hit enter." < 1257689711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It truly is 64-bits! < 1257689715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be an aircraft carrier! (continuing the military analogy) < 1257689735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257689736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inexplicably air- and space-borne ultimate half of an aircraft carrier. < 1257689759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "ultimate half" meaning? < 1257689778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was half of an aircraft carrier, and I turned my aircraft carriers into ultimate aircraft carriers, so... < 1257689781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The point thing.) < 1257689788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh THAT < 1257689789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257689810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea < 1257689814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LaTeX keyboard < 1257689822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with keys for commonly used stuff < 1257689847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a key marked \hphantom{ < 1257689850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257689870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a "math mode lock" < 1257689923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would change large parts of those special keys to math mode ones instead < 1257689931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there would have to be a math shift too) < 1257689971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, it seems AltGr really is "ISO Level3 Shift". Never knew < 1257690086 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257690325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want this: http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif < 1257690554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want one that works equally well in either hand (most likely impossible) < 1257690565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exist; finger-controlled. < 1257690571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumb trackballs appear to be better, however. < 1257690577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1257690580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant thumb ones. It could work however < 1257690585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having it swappable < 1257690598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pulling part of the left and right side away and switching their places < 1257690605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to be a cleaver design that could be mirrored < 1257690605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1257690620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I use both hands for mice normally? < 1257690635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a symmetric mouse for that reason
< 1257690643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason to with a trackball. Everything's stationary. < 1257690645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm using left, but just a while ago right < 1257690667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the fine motor skills you need in your thumb probably take a while to develop. < 1257690670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's best to have a keyboard without a number pad. < 1257690672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to reduce strain on thumb? < 1257690680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it's easier to reach by far. < 1257690681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for you maybe < 1257690688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any mousing. < 1257690709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, put the number pad on the side you don't use the mice on atm? < 1257690715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't care enough about the mouse to chop off the number pad for your main computer-usage board, don't bother paying the extra for a trackball. < 1257690716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, movable number pad < 1257690724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get a $5 mouse because you clearly don't care about your pointing experience. < 1257690730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's because I use the number pad... < 1257690764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then obviously the immense pain of swapping keyboards when you need the number pad, or plugging in a separate numberpad, outweighs all advantages of pointing to you. < 1257690770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just get a $5 mouse. < 1257690780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Separate numberpads do exist and are easily available.) < 1257690844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an aside, do you know if Xkb can be told to use a different key map for a separate numpad than for the primary keyboard? < 1257690861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH, THE OTHER KEYBOARDIC PERSON HERE hi < 1257690866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1257690871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears as a separate keyboard, yyeah? < 1257690879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you missed my point completelt < 1257690881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "appears as" < 1257690882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely* < 1257690887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1257690894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I try stuff out in xev I see no difference between them < 1257690908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You know, the intent of communication is to transfer a thought to someone else. If I misunderstood that's not my fault. < 1257690919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do they appear as different keyboard objects, so to speak < 1257690920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where I could see a difference between which keyboard a keypress came from < 1257690923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different devices < 1257690927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same goes in the other direction I assume? :P < 1257690929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check what X thinks its xorg.conf is < 1257690931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1257690932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Where would I check? < 1257690936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X -configure < 1257690939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root < 1257690947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seem to blame me for not understanding you a lot... < 1257690951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will start X, dump a hueg liek xbox config file into your current dir, and tada < 1257690959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but I readily admit I'm a hypocrite. < 1257690994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use input hotplugging, keyboards aren't in xorg.conf. < 1257691000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sigh < 1257691018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: irrelevant < 1257691024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X -configure dumps everything it has right now < 1257691029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even works on HAL < 1257691038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd require stopping X. :-/ < 1257691063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah. < 1257691078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detach all the processes from X11 somehow so you can reattach them. Somehow. :P < 1257691088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, if X was well-designed they wouldn't depend on the X server being alive to stay alive... < 1257691129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just stopped X. < 1257691131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try xinput(1) maybe= < 1257691134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257691135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one InputDevice. < 1257691147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Write two sections manually, I guess. < 1257691149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah -configure wouldn't help < 1257691153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hotplug PS/2 anyway. < 1257691164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*officially < 1257691168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worked fine for me so far. :-P < 1257691173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the numpad's USB anyway. < 1257691185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only one PS/2 port necessitates that.) < 1257691222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a nickel, kid; go buy one more PS/... no, wait... one less PS/... no, um, never mind. < 1257691258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if scrolling with a wheel-less trackball is practical. < 1257691313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if I need MPX for this to work. < 1257691378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I evidently have MPX, since it's in 1.7. < 1257691455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe that's what broke my key repeat settings recently. < 1257691486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pressing any key apart from numlock on the numpad causes backspace [capslock] to no longer repeat) < 1257691582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mpx? < 1257691608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=mpx < 1257691672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old school, all the kids are using lmgtfy < 1257691684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPX is for, you know, pointers, innit? < 1257691690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for being old school < 1257691695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say it was bad < 1257691699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmgtfy requires javascript, which AnMaster won't have enabled < 1257691721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your client does not have permission to get URL /custom?q=mpx&sa=Search&client=pub-5834014132134539&forid=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en from this server. (Client IP address: 212.183.134.129) < 1257691722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1257691728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: He probably disabled meta refreshes too. < 1257691738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt lynx supports them, actually. < 1257691743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it elinks he uses. < 1257691749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page links to the appropriate google search directly. < 1257691753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Konqueror broke it in KHTML "Dead and Buried" 33.4 < 1257691763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a 403 for me, at least :P < 1257691767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The redirect) < 1257691776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about the link, not the redirect. < 1257691786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, the links, of which there are three. < 1257691799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redirect seems to work fine for me. < 1257691896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, w3m < 1257691904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's ais523. < 1257692332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee, nice syntax. < 1257692864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a point, i'm a ball, i'm a stick, i'm a stall < 1257693259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, that's ais523. <-- huh? I use both lynx and w3m. I don't use links2 much, and elinks I don't even have installed < 1257693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stenotype, stenotype machine or shorthand machine is a specialized chorded keyboard or typewriter used by stenographers for shorthand use. In order to pass the Registered Professional Reporter test, a trained court reporter or closed captioner must write speeds of approximately 180, 200, and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can even reach 300 < 1257693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per minute and per the website of the California Official Court Reporters Association the official record for American English is 375 wpm. < 1257693506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"closed captioner"? < 1257693554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many users of this machine can even reach 30 < 1257693554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : per minute" < 1257693558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem right < 1257693561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did a 0 get lost there? < 1257693564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=closed+captioner < 1257693566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257693571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And " words " < 1257693574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The righardware template is no good, so I'm not using it." < 1257693608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :righardware? < 1257693688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so that is what closed captioning is < 1257693909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :righardware is a template on the wearable computing wiki. < 1257693960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Steno-example.gif < 1257694014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty, but what the heck is that mapping? < 1257694036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:16] ehird: A stenotype, stenotype machine or shorthand machine is a specialized chorded keyboard or typewriter used by stenographers for shorthand use. In order to pass the Registered Professional Reporter test, a trained court reporter or closed captioner must write speeds of approximately 180, 200, and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can < 1257694038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reach 300 words per minute and per the website of the California Official Court Reporters Association the official record for American English is 375 wpm. < 1257694042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257694044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stenospeak < 1257694045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that < 1257694053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I asked for encoding table or such < 1257694061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenographersv < 1257694063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1257694064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenographers < 1257694266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Many users of this machine can even reach 30 < 1257694268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : per minute" < 1257694270 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He meant 30 pages. < 1257694289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can even reach 300 words per minute and per the < 1257694292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I absolutely did not. < 1257694293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stenographers can write a book in ten minutes. < 1257694301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype has the mapping < 1257694308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you joking or what :P < 1257694567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1257695511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed that mac os thinks that sheepshaver's emulated disks are "internal floppy drive"s. A 500 MB floppy drive eh < 1257695534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1257695535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basilisk II ftw. < 1257695539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, awit. < 1257695541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one that sucks < 1257695542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: gnash actually ... like ... works 'n stuff. < 1257695543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda. < 1257695544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mini vMac ftw. < 1257695550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not on YouTube last I tried. < 1257695560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again I couldn't be fucked to compile it myself, I just used Ubuntu's package < 1257695561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it can't run the old games I want. Not even Basilisk II can < 1257695561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using YouTube right now. < 1257695566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CPU usage? < 1257695566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm on sidux :P < 1257695567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mini vmac is for even older < 1257695577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mini vMac is = Basilisk II in recentness. < 1257695580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulates a Mac Pluss. < 1257695581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Pretty high, but only one of my quadcore. < 1257695586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sidux? Frls? xd < 1257695587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xD < 1257695594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basilisk II emulates a quadra iirc? < 1257695599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, great, so it's just like the actual Flash player but it works less. < 1257695599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1257695610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm actually using sidux. It's awesomesauce. < 1257695614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a setting. But Mac Plus is fine for 68k. < 1257695624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's it got over sid < 1257695642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257695657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They have a repo of stuff that's sort of a fixed-sid. It's a little bit intermediate between sid and testing. < 1257695694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just use testing since, you know, Debian devs won't pander to people who want a "stable sid" so sidux is kinda fighting the tide. < 1257695699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1257695707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a lie; I'd actually use mine. Which I need to name really quickly. < 1257695753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had used testing, I'm trying out sidux now. < 1257695866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AsOfYetUnnamedThing FTW! < 1257695869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally kick-raddin'. < 1257695876 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257695879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it existed yet. < 1257695883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need hardwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. < 1257695891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a war that is hard is what I need. < 1257696784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've already switched to proprieflash :P < 1257696817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, emulator to begin with? < 1257696838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulator? I hardly knew 'er! < 1257696853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emulator? Damn near killed 'em!) < 1257696873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought that was a keyboard layout for a second < 1257696874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257696875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1257696940 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1257696964 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257697010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay sntax < 1257697012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1257697053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO A NEW XKCD. It's an unfunny non-joke like always < 1257697128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257698005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, rwx.st got squatted days after I saw it was available. < 1257698027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Swedish to me; AnMaster — some broadband company? < 1257698047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bahnhof.se/ is the company, it seems. < 1257698059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bahnhof.se/privat/ < 1257698059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1257698063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1257698063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an ISP in Sweden iirc. Or maybe backbone company < 1257698064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1257698064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahnhof är Sveriges största oberoende och fristående internetoperatör." < 1257698096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bahnhof is Sweden's largest independent and freestanding internet operator" < 1257698880 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257698918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? Hm < 1257698920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257699449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do a zen pogrom, you first have to learn not to do a zen pogrom. < 1257699452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION comes up with a fun little *unixy* design for a combined screen saver/locker
< 1257699511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, a unixy design would clearly have the screen saver and locker as separate programs < 1257699534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. In fact that is what xscreensaver does < 1257699544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for security reasons < 1257699554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, mine does < 1257699561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, a screen saver can be any program at all, no special api < 1257699577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it has to be full screen though? < 1257699586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said "combined"... < 1257699591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, sort of < 1257699591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the locker basically just does the magic locking, overlays the screen with black, and then optionally starts your screensaver program < 1257699602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that isn't combined < 1257699605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, ffs < 1257699610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd listen < 1257699613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, no point explaining < 1257699615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how? it runs two apps < 1257699626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the locker, and the app on top < 1257699629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, they're not apps, they're programs. < 1257699632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, there is no secondly < 1257699655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define the difference between an application and a program? < 1257699666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an application is what WIMP guis have < 1257699677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is a self-contained black-box like a function < 1257699687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1257699692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unixy programs are either written in C or compositions of other programs. < 1257699705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's combined because you can use it to do both, duh < 1257699715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a combined screen locker/saver *engine- < 1257699718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**engine* < 1257699731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it doesn't include any actual screen savers doesn't mean it isn't a combined screen locker/saver < 1257699800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very zen. < 1257699861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've eaten semi-recently and i'm not tired, so i'm fairly sure either the sides of my bed swapped overnight making me exit through the wrong one, or you're all being especially annoying today :| < 1257699872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1257699883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage of the design is that you can use any program as the screensaver < 1257699897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xlogo, glxgears, even an xterm running top or something < 1257699897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally if the sides swapped you must now be in the mirror universe < 1257699903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a goatee? < 1257699907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1257699910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1257699911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1257699918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257699920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, you could even run xscreensaver's screensaver < 1257699924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to, for some reason < 1257699931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the locker though, that'd Break Shit) < 1257699940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1257699962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a changing screensaver is just a shell script that goes through a list in random order, spawns it, sleeps N seconds, kills it, and runs the next one < 1257699995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the locker will capture all keyboard and mouse events so it's safe) < 1257700238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you could even set the screensaver to a program that turns off the display < 1257700272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might not be that simple since it has to turn back on to show the password prompt or return to the computer, but easy enough < 1257700497 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257700598 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh do you have a *goatee*, was kinda far from the screen and thought oerjan asked if you had a goatse, like mirror universe => inverse ass... or something < 1257700658 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's my contribution -> < 1257700697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now you are just talking out your ass < 1257700749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out of < 1257701626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is *.wps < 1257701649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed word perfect but that didn't work. file(1) says "microsoft office document" but trying as that doesn't work either < 1257701687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tried works too btw. < 1257701693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work either < 1257701696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1257701724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Microsoft Works. < 1257701732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't works .wks? < 1257701743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I just googled. Like you should have. < 1257701752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detailed information for file extension WPS: < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primary association: Works < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Company: Microsoft Corporation < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mime type: application/vnd.ms-works, application/x-msworks-wp, zz-application/zz-winassoc-wps, text/plain < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identifying characters Hex: D0 CF 11 E0 A1 B1 1A E1 00 , ASCII: < 1257701754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program ID: MicrosoftWorks.WordProcessor.5 , MSWorks4WordProcessor , Works.Word.Document.8 < 1257701755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it didn't work to convert from that < 1257701755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related links: Microsoft Office Home Page, MS Article: Open Works in Word, OpenOffice.org < 1257701761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converter's fault. < 1257701780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried MS word's own works converter < 1257701838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Works itself. < 1257701852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't have it < 1257701857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirate it. < 1257701874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes too long. Told the person to re-send it as rtf < 1257701884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't you do that first thing? < 1257701924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3502&stc=1&d=1249088737 < 1257701925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because there is a certain risk of having to tell the person how to do that. < 1257701925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pictured: a Boscom keyboard being dropped from a ladder. < 1257701929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In stop motion! < 1257701929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be possibly worse < 1257701951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it work after? < 1257701954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3503&stc=1&d=1249088928 < 1257701954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why did they do that < 1257701955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Various parts jumping ship. < 1257701968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think so, yes. To see how high you need to drop it from to destroy the rivets. < 1257701986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's MythBusters-style "science" and it's hilarious. < 1257701996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even with those parts jumping out of it? < 1257702004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just parts of the rivets, I believe. < 1257702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3509&stc=1&d=1249142093 < 1257702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, it's bendy! Nice ergonomic keyboard. < 1257702030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's surprising is that plugging it in MOST of the keys work fine - All the Function keys, most of the main cluster except the left modifiers. Numpad and weird keys on left are toast. Not bad for a 12 foot concrete drop." < 1257702042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Look, it's bendy! Nice ergonomic keyboard. <-- huh? < 1257702051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look closely. < 1257702061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case has been warped by the drops. < 1257702066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right the bottom isn't straight < 1257702082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it isn't due to a wide angle camera lens? < 1257702093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I stole the joke from the post, I'm sure./ < 1257702099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1257702100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257702129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, n-key roll over? < 1257702176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Model Ms and followups (Unicomp (who took over from Lexmark who took over from IBM) are the OEM for Boscom) get something like 12-key rollover. Or was it 20? < 1257702181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not n-key, that's a recent thing. < 1257702186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But higher than your average board. < 1257702198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB only does 6-key rollover anyway, and only gamers complain. < 1257702214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most keyboards in general only get about 3-key rollover. < 1257702215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kinda moot. < 1257702259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does modifier keys count separately? < 1257702289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It varies based on the matrix. It's very complicated. < 1257702295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few standard tests to work out the rollover. < 1257702298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my main issue is that my current keyboard doesn't allow Alt-Space-Right arrow (alt-space-left-arrow works fine) < 1257702320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? ThinkPad? < 1257702322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remapping to ctrl makes ctrl-space-right work but not ctrl-space-left < 1257702326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, desktop < 1257702332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that crappy PS/2 < 1257702371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, when did you last see a laptop with full sized arrow keys? < 1257702396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My shitty netbook. < 1257702402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257702428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how I can middle-click a button in safari to submit a form in a new tab < 1257702431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great for e.g. search fields < 1257702461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that work in firefox (I don't think I ever tried) < 1257702509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop. < 1257702511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope* < 1257702533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ctrl+click < 1257702610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you know that Microsoft's Virtual PC was originally based on a mac program with the same name? < 1257702618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I just found a copy in an old box < 1257702625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still offered today. < 1257702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for mac? < 1257702631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257702634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257702646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 3.0 btw < 1257702657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In July 2006 Microsoft released the Windows-hosted version as a free product.[1] In August 2006 Microsoft announced the Macintosh-hosted version would not be ported to Intel-based Macintosh computers, effectively discontinuing the product as PowerPC-based Macintosh computers are no longer manufactured. The newest release, Windows Virtual PC is available only for Windows 7 hosts. < 1257702658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK < 1257702679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe I should try to install it under the mac emulator, and run linux in it < 1257702708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And run SheepShaver from the Linux. < 1257702715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure Virtual PC is Windows only though < 1257702717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest < 1257702725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, I ran linux under it before < 1257702730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1257702730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for it then < 1257702742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah will < 1257702777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name for a bug tracking system: Samsa < 1257702796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however, I'm sceptical of it working.... Sheepshaver isn't exactly reliable even with other programs. And VirtualPC did something to put the CPU in little endian mode iirc < 1257702954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh, starting virtualpc makes sheepshaver segfault. 100% reproducible. < 1257702960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try mini vmac. < 1257702968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no configuration required ;-) < 1257702970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs OS 8 or later. PPC < 1257702976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini vmac is ppc < 1257702998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean running mini vmac under sheepshaver? < 1257703004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257703036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it isn't ppc < 1257703038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 68k < 1257703049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have a windows host you could try vmac < 1257703058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't it run on linux? < 1257703069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, vmac is 68k only too < 1257703083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it does run on linux yes < 1257703090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmainntained since '98 though :) < 1257703093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unmaintained < 1257703094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vmac.org/ < 1257703095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you think I'm using sheepshaver if there was an alternative for PPC OS 8/9 < 1257703096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257703104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno? < 1257703109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1257703148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sheepshaver is crashy, and buggy. Like I want to run those old avernum games. Avernum 1 and avernum 2 works fine. Avernum 3 gives a blank screen. :( < 1257703150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc shell is so <3 < 1257703154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for blades of avernum < 1257703160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver is shit, basilisk ii is also shit but slightly less so < 1257703170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basilisk II is 68k < 1257703172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini vmac is 700x less shitty than both if you can do 68k < 1257703176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know that. < 1257703184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was running through all the current mac emulators < 1257703185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these games are PPC < 1257703191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1257703202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they might run under OS X. Not sure though < 1257703221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does intel OS X's rosetta support Carbon? Or only Coca? < 1257703223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Classic just runs OS 9 in OS X basically < 1257703230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports Carbon < 1257703236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I checked, they link to carbon. < 1257703238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257703244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think classic binaries would work, Mach-O and the like ... < 1257703246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1257703250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257703251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to email them to penguinofthegods@gmail.com < 1257703253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll try them < 1257703259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there IS a chance they'll work < 1257703264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rosetta is just a ppc emulator, btw < 1257703266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fast one too < 1257703276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop cs3 is almost usable on this imac with it < 1257703282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's what people used on mac pros for a while < 1257703298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower than a g5, sure... but still probably the fastest totally-different-CPU emulator out there < 1257703311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can provide you with download link. They are shareware (only part of the game world available unregistered) with "response code" system. As in, on install they generate a key, and you have to enter a response key < 1257703320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are cracks around (that runs on windows) < 1257703326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257703326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1257703329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cracks/keygens/ < 1257703334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec for download link < 1257703352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.bin < 1257703363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bin ;_; < 1257703369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about .bin? < 1257703373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the standard isn't it? < 1257703382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes ... ten years ago < 1257703383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hqx is more annoying < 1257703401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That download appears to have failed, I'll try wget < 1257703402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could download it and repack it as .sit.hqx I guess... < 1257703408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X does .bin it seems < 1257703422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know I wgeted it to the shared folder thing < 1257703423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such file `Avernum3.demo.bin'. < 1257703426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257703429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou failest to the top amount! < 1257703439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah try ftp://ftp.spiderwebsoftware.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.v101.bin < 1257703439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens the directory it's in
< 1257703440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1257703446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1257703454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works, how queer. < 1257703459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can see it in the folder, but eh. < 1257703463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The irony one) < 1257703466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Spider one works) < 1257703486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, spiderwebsoftware is the ones that produced it btw < 1257703519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the latter link is an older version. Oh heh it says they ported it to native OS X in the later version. < 1257703522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot < 1257703539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I guess if I could get OS X to run in some emulator I could use it < 1257703545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pearpc? < 1257703556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox + OSX86 < 1257703570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that works? Hardware compat and such I mean < 1257703570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest Snow Leopard, since it has the Intel optimisations < 1257703578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try qemu if not < 1257703583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow but usable, since it emulates real hardware < 1257703603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I'm pretty sure qemu doesn't emulate the right hardware. Some cirrus graphics card for exampl < 1257703607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example* < 1257703627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I heard OS X is incredibly picky about hardware? < 1257703668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSx86 people make drivers. < 1257703683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just install it to another partition < 1257703695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it'd have to be like 10 GiB < 1257703702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh" < 1257703710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc=`{echo $rc+1 | bc} < 1257703723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc's only disadvantage is that saying rc++ is loquacious :P < 1257703723 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-82.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257703759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly does that code do? < 1257703773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as rc=$(echo "$rc"+1 | bc) < 1257703781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1257703811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh something like (( rc++)) then? < 1257703813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; fn ++ { eval '$'^$1^'=`{echo $'^$1^'+1 | bc}' } < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; rc=3 < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; ++ rc < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; echo $rc < 1257703815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1257703815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only we had something like Tcl's uplevel! XD < 1257703815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or let rc=rc+1 < 1257703817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257703818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Warning: Awful hack above) < 1257703826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's rc=rc+1 < 1257703838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc is a shell, so you use a calculator command to calculate things. < 1257703850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not intended for mathematics-heavy code. < 1257703866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well right. But most programming languages have some way to increment variables. Even if not for math heavy things < 1257703868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very good as a scripting language; in fact, I don't see all that many uses for Python if you have rc. < 1257703871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, say, loops and such < 1257703880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seq(1) < 1257703890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(i in `{seq 10}) echo $i < 1257703901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not standard < 1257703906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if *BSD has it < 1257703911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is standard, it's a fucking shell < 1257703918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is that you compose together little unixy tools < 1257703920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean seq(1) isn't < 1257703921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257703939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point < 1257703940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I won't bother putting your head, I'd have to flood empty lines for decades) < 1257703958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, if you have that tool it would work < 1257703980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah and what if you had a Python with all arithmetic capabilities removed?! < 1257703983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WOULDN'T WORK THEN < 1257703987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is unusable for arithmetic. < 1257704042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is? < 1257704050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I just proved it didn't I < 1257704063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work with it removed yes < 1257704074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't what you said in the last line < 1257704075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97% [====================================> ] 11,621,224 18.1K/s eta 19s < 1257704092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And that rc script won't remove if you remove a very useful tool like seq. < 1257704100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "dependencies". < 1257704107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All software has them. < 1257704108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't remove? won't work you mean? < 1257704116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typo. < 1257704148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man1/seq.html < 1257704156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9port has seq. Depend on that or something. < 1257704165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway such loops are useless generally. < 1257704173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very rare that a from i=0 to n can't be rephrased in a better way. < 1257704223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9port is where everyone gets their rc anyway, or the fork 9babse < 1257704225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*9base < 1257704231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/NeGZp.png < 1257704233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP SMILING AT ME MACINTOSH < 1257704237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not happy with you < 1257704238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am displeased < 1257704344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true "for i in foo" is often possible < 1257704355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when possible, better < 1257704358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other constructs. < 1257704364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is totally irrelevant, you know. < 1257704368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting. < 1257704373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did the more recent avernum 3 work? < 1257704380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually launch? < 1257704383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it for OS X? < 1257704394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, it will not work. Classic in OS X is dead, no longer supported, end of. < 1257704433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I understand it, yes. says "Avernum 3 runs natively under Macintosh OS X.". And that the last version no longer supports OS 9 and older < 1257704450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link. < 1257704468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.bin (the spiderwebsoftware one was the older version) < 1257704469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles the Heirloom Toolchest
< 1257704475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bin? Not OS X. < 1257704479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, welcome to the club < 1257704480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean the dmg? < 1257704486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which club? < 1257704495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of having Heirloom Toolchest installed < 1257704518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, what a club. Not like you probably use it as your main tools... < 1257704523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coreutils *spits* < 1257704528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spits VENOM* < 1257704539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually /bin/vi is from heirloom :P < 1257704548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I don't use that) < 1257704550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1257704550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from nv < 1257704551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi < 1257704556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same person different project < 1257704564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This demo is .bin, it's definitely Classic-only < 1257704569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Avenrum 4 dmg though < 1257704571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Avernum < 1257704580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, avernum 4 doesn't really interest me. Too modern :/ < 1257704694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay so I guess avernum 3 is a lost hope. But blades of avernum seems to have a dmg version too. That should work < 1257704703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1257704708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/BladesofAvernumDemo.dmg < 1257704713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will download soon. < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc install_ucb.o -L../libcommon -lcommon -o install_ucb < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined symbols: < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "_pfmt_label__", referenced from: < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _pfmt_label__$non_lazy_ptr in libcommon.a(getopt.o) < 1257704729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: symbol(s) not found < 1257704730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1257704730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, althrough it says "demo" it is the same as the full one. A bit strange < 1257704743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no fucking clue. Never hit that. < 1257704750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would remember < 1257704772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is this mach-O or ELF? < 1257704790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macho < 1257704794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heirloom < 1257704796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257704804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if it was related to that < 1257704863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I wonder what sort of linker trick they are doing to cause that. < 1257704874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, it's regular code. < 1257704881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an undefined symbol. < 1257704900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the $non_lazy_ptr bit? < 1257704943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and: can you find the definition elsewhere in the code? < 1257704980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too lazy, already rm -rf'd. < 1257704991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw did you make -j? < 1257704996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or single thread? < 1257705028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling suggests there is a pfmt_label.c around < 1257705033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make < 1257705040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i got configuration wrong blah blah < 1257705043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no possible race condition about that then < 1257705049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. Complex config? < 1257705062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some make variables, skimmed them < 1257705076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to care, going to continue fawning over my awesome latex-style syntax < 1257705161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latex-style syntax for? < 1257705167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell? < 1257705197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written-in-rc little web publishing-style system, because I need to get off my arse and publish software ands tuff. < 1257705199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and stuff < 1257705225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything wrong with markdown? < 1257705228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensible, so it's sort of like a web framework that also handles navigation and other site-like things for you. < 1257705230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except much simpler. < 1257705230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and similar) < 1257705261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes; it's kind of ugly, some bits are unintuitive, and fundamentally it fails at being so easy as to not require thinking, but it's "free" enough to require even more thought, as your brain doesn't go into code mode. < 1257705275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, mine is simpler, and handles more advanced structures better. < 1257705278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc there was some sort of "hypercard for the web" software called "livecard" or something like that. Maybe that would work? XD < 1257705282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl. < 1257705327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~pinto/hc4.html (search for "How can I get my HyperCard stack on the web") < 1257705342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks but no thanks. < 1257705548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, Model Ms are "technically" 2-key rolloverr < 1257705552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rollover < 1257705557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "ASX" fails < 1257705572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does ghn work? < 1257705579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Most combinations should work. < 1257705587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without n-key rollover you'll always have edge cases. < 1257705594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they have the same relative placement though < 1257705599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my point < 1257705606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1257705609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how the matrix works. < 1257705610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the AT Model Fs are N-key rollover. < 1257705628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never studied keyboards much, wouldn't know < 1257705700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboards are awesome < 1257705757 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1257705815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This site uses AJAX to generate page content. You need to enable Javascript in your browser and reload the page in order to see it." <-- argh. That is quite horrible. < 1257705830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which page? < 1257705835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alex.csgraf.de/self/?qemu/ < 1257705853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found when reading various stuff about OSx86. < 1257705854 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257705858 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257705859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linked from virtualbox forum < 1257705867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post from 2007 so could be completely outdated info < 1257705890 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257705924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mac OS X is a really great Operating System. They did a lot of things right, especially in the Interface parts. Sadly it is neither the fastest Operating System, nor the securest out there." < 1257705926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_x < 1257705928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD retard? < 1257705933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is a pretty fucking secure BSD... < 1257706023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nazgul.ch/dev_nostromo.html seems to be a decent httpd... sure would be nice not to have to write my own :P < 1257706047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thttpd? < 1257706054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about as minimal as you can get < 1257706082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen at http://www.nazgul.ch/dev_nostromo.html thttpd is about as scalable than nostromo, and nostromo is about as minimal as thttpd. < 1257706090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference is that thttpd is practically unmaintained. < 1257706117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they didn't test with more than 300 clients? < 1257706123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a large aspect of thttpd, "It also has one extremely useful feature (URL-traffic-based throttling) that no other server currently has.", is totally useless to me. < 1257706135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: running server benchmarks takes a lot of resources, and besides: < 1257706142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apache 1.3.29 < 1257706142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Client: resurrection, Sun Ultra 2, SPARC 400MHz, 100Mbit NIC < 1257706143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server: gollum, Intel, x86 3GHz, 100Mbit NIC < 1257706151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty old yeah < 1257706159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can clearly see from the graph that nostromo scales linearly. < 1257706168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from CGI. < 1257706171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to level off there. < 1257706182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what caused the spike in http://www.nazgul.ch/images/httperf_small-l.png. < 1257706197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect nostromo will level off at some point too. Just a hunch. < 1257706210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does use select() after all. < 1257706216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257706233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course nothing can scale linearly, don't you know the first thing about computers? Limited resources. < 1257706253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But I meant before something using epoll will level off. < 1257706256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch. < 1257706258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1257706262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because epoll is shiny and new? < 1257706288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because epoll doesn't need to send the fd list to the kernel every time you want to wait for something to happen < 1257706347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. It doesn't really matter all that much. < 1257706349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with many concurrent clients that might all send you some data soon, this could be an issue. < 1257706365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, CGI will be a bottleneck far before select. < 1257706386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just showing that nostromo scales as well as thttpd, which is a good indicator of simplicity and good design. < 1257706397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc http allows you to reuse a connection for several requests? Like fetching images related to the page in the same connection. Might be HTTP/1.1 only or such < 1257706412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't give a damn about that < 1257706417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wrote a server I probably wouldn't support it < 1257706471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that allowed by standard? Because if it isn't I'm fairly certain that it might cause problems with modern browsers. At least firefox makes use of it. < 1257706475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably other browsers too < 1257706494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if the browser sends Connection: keep-alive or whatever it is but the connection closes anyway it just makes a new connection. < 1257706505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1257706507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of situations where it doesn't work, I believe. < 1257706512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No biggie. < 1257706518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway. You probably won't need to scale that much in the beginning. If you find out it doesn't scale you could replace it with something else < 1257706529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1257706551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in fast page loads with no-to-little load. < 1257706562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on the computer? < 1257706568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over the interwebternets. < 1257706593 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257706594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the actually applicable situation; of course, I want pages to load very quickly (perfectly possible, e.g. Cherokee achieves this without any tweaking), and I probably won't get many concurrent visitors. < 1257706596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that depends on your page size basically. You probably want to send it compressed < 1257706605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its actually not that i need a watch, see < 1257706616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compression is good but there are lots of other things too < 1257706632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grandmother is insisting on getting me a christmas gift, despite me adamant protests < 1257706648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"despite me adamant protests". Yooth slang! < 1257706651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("me" for "my") < 1257706655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what augur needs is a watchmaker *ducks* < 1257706664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some cognitive dissonance as soon as you hit "adamant" < 1257706670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sings
< 1257706672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well make it something useful then < 1257706672 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchmaker watchmaker make meeee a watch < 1257706674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can Cherokee do "compress and cache" on the fly? Like for *.html, if there is a compressed variant of the file in the cache directory, use it, otherwise compress it and cache it. Oh and re-compress and cache if the html page has been updated. < 1257706679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its not actually youth slang < 1257706686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. < 1257706688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for south in the south it might be < 1257706688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know these things. < 1257706692 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1257706696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You constantly ask people if things can do things < 1257706698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i dont NEED anything, ehird! :| < 1257706699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because they mentioned the first thing < 1257706703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how knowledge works < 1257706704 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257706704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it < 1257706727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh. Sorry. But Imight just add that lighttpd has that feature. Pretty nice. < 1257706730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody needs love < 1257706735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine most httpds have it. < 1257706735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still shouldn't be hard to make something similar < 1257706746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an example of a page that loads really quickly: http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Front%20Page < 1257706750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. but this nhttpd looks a bit limited? < 1257706756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Adjust for distance from the server, of course) < 1257706760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Important things it does: < 1257706772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one HTTP request; no or anything < 1257706774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quite fast yes. Probably not a lot to fetch. Something like html page plus one css? < 1257706776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257706779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cSS < 1257706780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CSS < 1257706782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1257706790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus very minimalist markup (apart from whitespace) < 1257706793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume gzip compression < 1257706798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, a minimalist webserver (Factor's) < 1257706800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume caching < 1257706807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No gzip < 1257706810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimalist! < 1257706810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257706812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use a for CSS because I'm lazy, but eh < 1257706817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Damn fast for no gzip < 1257706822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe gzip processing time outweighed it < 1257706826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an advantage of not embedding the css in the page though. And that is if the person looks at more than one of your site's pages. < 1257706834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nhttpd isn't limited, it's just minimalist < 1257706854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighttpd may look minimalist coming from apache... but that's a seriously skewed comparison < 1257706872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with separate css file that will be cached. You could also send some cache control headers to not make the browser recheck if the cached copy is up-to-date iirc < 1257706872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nginx is more minimalist than lighttpd by quite an amount and just about as featureful < 1257706878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it doesn't leak memory, and it scales better) < 1257706881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until some time later) < 1257706882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still has a lot of needless features < 1257706894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: concatenative's is faster in practice, though < 1257706901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's counterintuitive, but requests seem to be very expensive < 1257706902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never ran into the memory leak issue < 1257706913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lighttpd leaks memory like a sieve in many common configurations. < 1257706927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you haven't run into it but it casts doubt on its engineering. < 1257706949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed it does. Open bug reports? < 1257706963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These issues are very well known, I am certain bug reports exist < 1257706979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've existed for years, so most people who've heard about them or especially run into them have just abandoned lighttpd < 1257706982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: concatenative's is faster in practice, though <-- maybe. dropping the whitespace would be a good idea however. < 1257706998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of the templating language, I think < 1257706998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1257706999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1257707001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <% < 1257707003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code blah < 1257707003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%> < 1257707004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1257707008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for gzip, well you could make it serve already gziped pages? < 1257707012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got the \n and spaces before the <% < 1257707017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you don't plan to pre-generate from static pages? < 1257707020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that gets added to the output < 1257707027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm talking about concatenative.org < 1257707027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to static* < 1257707029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't mine < 1257707032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a dynamic site < 1257707036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so already gzipping isn't ppractical < 1257707038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practical < 1257707040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1257707044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I'm not going to use static pages < 1257707048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257707059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much fuss in coding, dynamic pages are simpler to write and let you do fancier stuff < 1257707069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do fancier stuff by doing a hybrid static+dynamic system... but dear god no. That's just asking for pain. < 1257707070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can cache pre-rendered dynamic versions < 1257707073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc wikipedia does this < 1257707075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No point. < 1257707084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast enough? Then don't add complexity. < 1257707093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially dealing with cache invalidation... *shudder* < 1257707180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only needed on update of page or update of the navigation stuff. And if you only cache the page content (and not the navigation stuff) then it is trivial. < 1257707228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could cache them separately like: shared pre-content, page content, shared post-content < 1257707234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true if you have simple static content. < 1257707240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But dynamic stuff? < 1257707253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. But what exactly do you plan to have on the page? < 1257707256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think cache invalidation for dynamic web content is easy... shut up until you actually have to deal with it. < 1257707262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything. Extensible, remember>? < 1257707264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remember? < 1257707285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Isn't this second system syndrome done already for the first system? < 1257707292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, no. < 1257707300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extensible in the same way a web framework is. < 1257707303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a toolchest. < 1257707330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles navigation, the basic web stuff and hierarchical pages, you add your stuff to it. < 1257707360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://werc.cat-v.org/ does this already although the system has some design differences to mine. It's also written in rc. Do you think this extensibility and power necessitates bloat? < 1257707365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes time to learn one. Which is why there are so many. It is often easier to make your own than try to learn one someone else wrote < 1257707367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because werc's core is 150 lines of rc shell. < 1257707389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Irrelevant, almost all the existing frameworks are both bloated, or don't do things they should. < 1257707412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dichotomy of web framework vs "website hierarchy manager thingybob" is false; the very fact that it's hard to name the second one shows this — it's an integral part. < 1257707434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell would a "website hierarchy manager thingybob" thing be? < 1257707435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, using werc as an example again, it's basically CGI + some functions + some variables. You don't even have to write the apps in rc. < 1257707446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, example of such < 1257707448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I explained before, try keeping a backlog in your mind because you're discarding every line by the next one. < 1257707460 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257707470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you mean like werc? or does that fit in the former? < 1257707482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:08] ehird: It handles navigation, the basic web stuff and hierarchical pages, you add your stuff to it. < 1257707494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (website hierarchy manager thingybob + web framework). < 1257707495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the former then < 1257707502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, werc is a (website hierarchy manager thingybob + web framework). < 1257707517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so the latter isn't a subset of the former? < 1257707520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257707525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't really any standalone website hierarchy manager thingybobs. Some CMSs are similar, but they're really shit.. < 1257707527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit. < 1257707538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two things naturally belong together, and having them be the same thing makes both simpler. < 1257707555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway you plan to do cgi? *shudder* < 1257707573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you complain about CGI you must complain about FastCGI, which is just CGI with a server layer and some extra crazy crap. < 1257707591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on the reason for complaining about cgi. < 1257707594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two < 1257707603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on, I'm up for rebutting. < 1257707605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is performance. FastCGI is somewhat better when it comes to that. < 1257707622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is that it is rather ugly to code in, when it comes to this FastCGI is definitely even worse < 1257707623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. The overhead Apache and other shit servers add far outweighs a simple server with CGI. < 1257707633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say apache < 1257707638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite ugly to code in directly, which is the whole reason I'm writing my thingy. < 1257707640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even lighttpd. < 1257707650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't ngnix support fastcgi? < 1257707657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1257707668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and no CGI. http://suckless.org/ uses a CGI-wrapping fastcgi to run werc on nginx, heh. < 1257707686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, even nginx has needless features. A FastCGI-like thing is of course needed if you have a very popular website. < 1257707696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway there is a solution. And that is to integrate the dynamic pages more tightly with the web server. Like yaws. < 1257707703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest SCGI; it's a very light protocol and no FastCGI-like cruft. < 1257707707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you would hate yaws < 1257707709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no solution needed. < 1257707711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in search of a problem. < 1257707723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It found one: "CGI is slow on most web servers". < 1257707728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem there is most web servers... < 1257707730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, SCGI is pretty nice yes. < 1257707743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem it should try to find is "really popular sites fail with CGI even on minimalist web servers". < 1257707758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's niche, and solutions searching for problems seem to try and find the most general one they can. < 1257707779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you'll say google would use CGI next :P < 1257707792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google isn't really popular? < 1257707793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1257707796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are that niche < 1257707797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257707808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it, at least. < 1257707810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and two other people < 1257707817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something like that) < 1257707892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can think of some more: twitter, youtube (except google bought them some time ago), possibly sites like last.fm and such. Not sure about slashdot (from what I remember they use something horrible java based crap) < 1257707898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/something/some/ < 1257707909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot is horrific, horrific Perl code that requires root and shits all over your system. < 1257707910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Slashcode) < 1257707914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh perl it was < 1257707920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it sf.net that used java? < 1257708008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257708029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1257708039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway probably sites like reddit too? < 1257708043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be in that niche < 1257708048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives an example http response from his httpd if he'd write one to see how anmaster reacts
< 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 < 1257708051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257708051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...content... < 1257708082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare with w3.org, one of the *lighter* sites header-wise... http://pastie.org/689155.txt?key=v492i5n9ybfvshobv4iwa < 1257708084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure there should be one or two more headers there. Anyway what about virtual hosts? < 1257708098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially providing the "human-readable" thing like < 1257708103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 403 Permission Denied < 1257708105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't you need "Content-Length: 29707"? < 1257708106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pointless < 1257708109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 403 < 1257708111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works just the same < 1257708118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope < 1257708123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just for static files < 1257708126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give their length < 1257708129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably include it though < 1257708134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would require people to check. Unless you provide an error page as well < 1257708146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, people don't see the http headers. < 1257708152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyone who does know what the code means. < 1257708155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knows < 1257708157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and wget -c will fail with your web server < 1257708167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 < 1257708168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-length: 6345 < 1257708169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1257708169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to resume downloads that broke down in the middle < 1257708171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1257708175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accept-Ranges: bytes < 1257708175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No it won't. < 1257708176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is missing < 1257708181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure it will < 1257708185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't resume from the middle < 1257708196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c will try and resume in the request, and the server will comply. < 1257708198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1257708209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it makes a dummy request to see if it's supported before trying, which is retarded. < 1257708213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, then, fine: < 1257708223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well okay, I guess you could accept it without telling anyone you did < 1257708231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: xxx/warez-porn < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-length: 6345 < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accept-ranges: bytes < 1257708248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an etag: header for caching. < 1257708250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was more thinking this would be useful for install iso's for your distro < 1257708267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no server tag to tell what server? < 1257708269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main thing is that pointless headers like Server: need to go, the pointless capitalisation needs to go, and the pointless response code names need to go < 1257708270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1257708281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason to lengthen every request with trivia < 1257708283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is the standard case insensitive? < 1257708286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sites that want you to know will tell you anyway < 1257708287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1257708302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you have against the capitalisation though < 1257708308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointless < 1257708309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter either way in load < 1257708320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We write our variable names in lowercase because caps look awkward < 1257708322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if it broke some clients < 1257708326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And headers are just an associative array < 1257708327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't. < 1257708335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, it means that it's simpler to collapse duplicate headers. < 1257708337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We write our variable names in lowercase because caps look awkward <-- we do? Well depends on language < 1257708342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to handle capitalisation, just lowercase everything < 1257708348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I do, at least. < 1257708366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some languages have foo = atom Foo = variable or similar < 1257708369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang for example < 1257708371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1257708373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1257708382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess I have to write this server now. < 1257708383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but in C I would use lower_case_with_underscore < 1257708390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet I can beat most other server's performance. < 1257708394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With less code, too. < 1257708399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say.... 500 SLOC? < 1257708403 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257708408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to brb now for about 15 minutes, then I guess I'll start. < 1257708411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably for small loads. Not sure with 5000 concurrent clients :P < 1257708412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess I'll < 1257708417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes with 5,000 concurrent clients. < 1257708422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 10k; C10k was a decade ago. < 1257708434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C10k? < 1257708442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure you could make it. But so can other servers < 1257708837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that c10k < 1257708839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257709169 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257709196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not just use that factor thing that you said was so fast? < 1257710465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1257710479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: various reasons. the sever itself isn't _that_ fast anyway < 1257710485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sure, but most servers don't < 1257710488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're shit. < 1257710542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, sure, but most servers don't <-- don't what? < 1257710558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do C10k < 1257710583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure lighttpd does for example. nginx probably does too? < 1257710594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... no. < 1257710606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no about which one? < 1257710621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just no. < 1257710626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not without some SERIOUS hardware. < 1257710635 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257710639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And computers are big, too. You can buy a 1000MHz machine with 2 gigabytes of RAM and an 1000Mbit/sec Ethernet card for $1200 or so. Let's see - at 20000 clients, that's 50KHz, 100Kbytes, and 50Kbits/sec per client. It shouldn't take any more horsepower than that to take four kilobytes from the disk and send them to the network once a second for each of twenty thousand clients < 1257710655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C10k means you can do it on a single-core 1 GHz machine with 2 GiB of RAM and a 1 Gb/s Ethernet card. < 1257710656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about cheroke or such? < 1257710665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cherokee is very ununixy. < 1257710678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. but does it do c10k? < 1257710715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember what I said about asking people such things just because they mentioned the name of a thing...? < 1257710721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1257710737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to know about lighttpd and nginx? < 1257710755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain lighttpd and nginx can't do it on such specs. < 1257710762 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257710772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Another book which might be more helpful for those who are *using* rather than *writing* a web server is Building Scalable Web Sites by Cal Henderson.)" < 1257710773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, C10K mentions our own iamcal. < 1257710777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not technically our own. < 1257710799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Reilly published too. Swanky. < 1257710929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually: < 1257710929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, basic architecture: epoll(), probably fork(), pass over to handler. Have helper functions for headers and stuff. < 1257710952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[lighttpd] was originally written [...] as a proof-of-concept of the c10k problem (how to handle 10000 connections in parallel on one server),[1] but now has substantial worldwide popularity [...]" < 1257710954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia < 1257710963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean it met it. < 1257710967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1257710975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you are saying it didn't? < 1257710983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may well have. < 1257710984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fefe.de/fnord/2.5.50-scalability.png < 1257710995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.5.50 (old! but similar to 2.6) scalability of web servers. < 1257711004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing C10k I mean doing it gracefully, naturally. < 1257711012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking 30 seconds to load a page isn't acceptable. < 1257711055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's really usec, that Y axis only goes up to 60 milliseconds, which I guess is still pretty reasonable latency. < 1257711062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257711066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent scalability from both thttpd and fnord. fnord clearly wins though. < 1257711068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course. but taking twice the time as usual could be (if "usual" is tiny). Say 0.2 seconds instead of 0.1 (unreasonable example figures, just an example) < 1257711086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like 0.3 ms nearing C10k from fnord. < 1257711089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good latency. < 1257711096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why does the bar for fnord end early there? < 1257711103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bar almost < 1257711108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fnord plot ends at 8000 connections because I couldn't open more connections before fnord kept timing out the old ones" < 1257711112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1257711119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it doesn't really scale that well < 1257711120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257711122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the author of fnord; strikingly honest) < 1257711128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does < 1257711134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just times out like most servers < 1257711136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not *past* 8000 < 1257711142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misunderstand the quote < 1257711148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. But thttpd didn't? < 1257711167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because it doesn't do timeouts. < 1257711171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or because the timeout was set really high. < 1257711177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1257711188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hardware limitation. < 1257711198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why is there so little "noise" in the the fnord plot? < 1257711200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord is clearly more scalable on given hardware because the latency increases much more slowly. < 1257711201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the other ones < 1257711202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the latency < 1257711206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Good engineering.. < 1257711208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*engineering. < 1257711217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CGI (through pipes, not temp files like Apache)" < 1257711217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APACHE DOES CGI THROUGH TEMP FILES? >_< < 1257711219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it run in kernel space or user space? < 1257711225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Userspace, of course... < 1257711239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, APACHE DOES CGI THROUGH TEMP FILES? >_< <-- I would be surprised if it does any more in that case! < 1257711263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it would break if you were producing a large file dynamically for download < 1257711294 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257711308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thttpd is the fastest web server known to me." says fnord's author < 1257711318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fnord clearly scales better < 1257711337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fnord fork()s for every request, seems like that's a good architecture < 1257711342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unixy, so I should have guessed < 1257711394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would work on linux due to cheap fork() (mostly due to COW, but also pretty fast in other areas) < 1257711404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs too. < 1257711405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, I'm surprised < 1257711414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Threading servers have the same latency of fork() on Linux of course. < 1257711418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. < 1257711428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latency, I mean overhead < 1257711430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean < 1257711444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And event-based? < 1257711448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAH, THE CODE! < 1257711448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, potentially less on some bsds. m:n threads there. Though iirc freebsd at least switched to 1:1 since then < 1257711452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT MEANT FOR ANY MORTAL! < 1257711456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257711466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link to a file from it? < 1257711476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event-based servers and async IO and all that stuff... with a language not designed for that sort of thing? < 1257711479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I can just open it directly in an editor) < 1257711484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't even go there. < 1257711487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so AIO in C? < 1257711487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No particular server. < 1257711503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIO and event-based servers may be faster than fork()ing servers... but it's not worth the payoff. < 1257711525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you mean fnord code XD < 1257711545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I have done event based IO in C. Worked on ircds after all. < 1257711569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that isn't AIO though, just non-blocking) < 1257711578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical of the common acceptance of asynchronous IO as the only way to do an ircd. < 1257711579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(have done AIO elsewhere too) < 1257711583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is really cheap. < 1257711589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you need IPC then < 1257711594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or channels won't work < 1257711605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it's called FIFO files... or a Unix socket < 1257711614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that is the main reason why you want one thread. Because they need to talk to each other a lot. In various directions < 1257711627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sounds like an excuse for spaghetti code < 1257711628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lots of channels and /msg out of nowhere < 1257711637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how so? < 1257711638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, but I'd have to write so much code that makes explicit the communication!" < 1257711641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing. < 1257711695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, an ircd is supposed to handle thousands of clients per server. Plus routing for lots more (multiple linked servers after all) < 1257711703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257711716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will need to handle "send to other server" in some other way than a pipe per channel or such. < 1257711722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a fork()ing webserver can handle 8,000 clients at once in the era of Linux 2.5... < 1257711733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a fork()ing ircd can handle many more today. < 1257711743 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257711746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, webservers doesn't do a lot of IPC. Probably none or close to none < 1257711747 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257711761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IPC can be fast, I'm sure. < 1257711766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be ridiculous if it couldn't be. < 1257711825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. Go ahead and write an ircd using pipes. and that supports linking to other servers. and scales to 5000 active clients per server or so. < 1257711839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will. < 1257711853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and huge channels. Last I looked #ubuntu had over 1000 people in it. < 1257711866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the day karmic was released though < 1257711870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server-to-server communication would be easy, at least... since you'd already have the infrastructure. < 1257711874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 people is peanuts. < 1257711882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#gentoo is generally around 900-950 < 1257711884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have computers with massive power nowadays... and fork() is really cheap. < 1257711894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tingles my skeptic nerve to assert that this is a challenge. < 1257711985 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257711989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and really you shouldn't compare to the freenode ircd when it comes to performance. That isn't like comparing to apache. It's like comparing to that "personal web sharing" thing mac os 9 had. Or to that down sized ISS thing for windows 9x < 1257711998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say I'd compare to it? < 1257712007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just warning you ahead of time < 1257712008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100ish right now < 1257712016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, in #ubuntu? < 1257712019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hey, OS X has Personal Web Sharing too. It's Apache :P < 1257712019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257712029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it wasn't apache in OS 9 < 1257712033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking < 1257712037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, Synchronet is still developed < 1257712042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synchronet? < 1257712057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh seems to be a BBS? < 1257712061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird old BBS software < 1257712074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm.. alis says 1708 < 1257712075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays runs on Windows with lots of Javascript for some reason < 1257712077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did you even check on that < 1257712087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I only saw 1100 when I went in < 1257712092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Its ircd was mentioned in the Wikipedia list of ircds < 1257712095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how strange < 1257712103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, maybe alis caches? < 1257712105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're invisible < 1257712107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITERALLY < 1257712109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess < 1257712115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is only updated every n < 1257712122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257712125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alis?) < 1257712129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alist? < 1257712145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, service to search in channel list. < 1257712156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try /msg alis help < 1257712170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1257712184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is named SEXPOTS, with homage to the very successful SEXYZ project. This program adds dial-up modem support to any Windows TCP/Socket/Telnet-based BBS (e.g. Synchronet-Win32). Deuce has a *nix version in the works and has also recently added dial-up modem support to SyncTERM to complete the old-school BBS experience using actual modems! Vertrauen can now be dialed directly at 951-549-9994. < 1257712187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...circa june 2008 < 1257712189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2007 < 1257712191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw another reason to avoid IPC. Depending on what sort of IPC that you use, it can look worse than AIO code... < 1257712195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the author sure is up on the modern age < 1257712206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unix sockets or FIFO files, probably. < 1257712210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both easy, simple, intuitive. < 1257712214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter moreso. < 1257712233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd definitely never touch sysv ipc. < 1257712294 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do one to many ipc with it? < 1257712302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define it < 1257712318 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one process sends multiple processes listen < 1257712321 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one "channel" < 1257712333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, not with pipes no. Not sure about unix sockets < 1257712337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "it" < 1257712338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with it" < 1257712352 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah ... unix sockets and fifo files < 1257712367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume ehird will use some sort of channel "thread/process" for each channel < 1257712370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will mean... < 1257712373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Probably < 1257712374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, no. < 1257712379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just fork() on client connect. < 1257712388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is about how to handle networking... < 1257712393 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so when one client sends to #ubuntu it will need to write to 1000 pipes? < 1257712410 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great design < 1257712415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall saying that. < 1257712421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you have to write to 1000 sockets anyway, you know.) < 1257712438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads some of the Acme:: stuff at CPAN
< 1257712444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not locally. Some could be remote. So that means one server write < 1257712458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 sockets as in the client sockets. < 1257712458 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well then you have one remote pipe < 1257712461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the channel, you see. < 1257712476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will have to do 1000 socket writes no matter what... and writing to 1000 pipes suddenly seems tiny. < 1257712484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, yes but the client process has to keep track of who is in what channel and who are local and who are remote < 1257712512 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that's another problem... < 1257712515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~gugod/Acme-Boolean-0.3/lib/Acme/Boolean.pm < 1257712518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, which, since it won't be covered by COW, will be stored in multiple copies in the memory < 1257712522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no FILE_NOT_FOUND :( < 1257712528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do shm < 1257712539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing to N sockets sounds like it'd take less effort than writing to N [anything]s, which are then read by N separately scheduled processes, and then furthermore written to N network sockets. < 1257712552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very true too < 1257712564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail. < 1257712571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how? < 1257712576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to have a step in between, it's a matter of figuring out what that is. < 1257712581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you go for spaghetti code. < 1257712589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, yeah, I'm not interested. < 1257712614 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you have to make sure that the writes are nonblocking < 1257712618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you define "spaghetti code" as anything using a single thread with non-blocking IO and select()/epoll/similar? < 1257712631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only way I can read what you said < 1257712644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not interested in continuing this conversation until you decide to stop jumping to incorrect inclusions. < 1257712648 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing kinda your own scheduling for all write queues? < 1257712670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say it was up to the person talking to make sure the message was interpretable? < 1257712673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, today iirc < 1257712726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a difference between < 1257712729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) misunderstanding, and < 1257712730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, in part yes. you will have the same problem with the pipes however. < 1257712739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) vaguely understanding, then leaping t o a conclusion without too much thought < 1257712742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to a < 1257712773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I suggest you clarify. Because I spent quite some thought on it. < 1257712781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having that "step" done in a single user-space thread sounds still better than bothering the kernel task scheduler with N separate tasks-to-switch, but whatever. Obviously this is all idle speculation until someone actually goes and benchmarks things. < 1257712789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, professional intellectual. I mean exactly what I said and with no hidden meaning. < 1257712794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true. < 1257712824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do realise that saying "true." to everyone who makes a coherent and rational disagreement with me, which you haven't yet done, doesn't bolster your argument magically? < 1257712833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. You are now saying that it is up to the reader to make sure to understand it. Yes you are a hypocrite. No it doesn't make it better that you admit it. < 1257712838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's true, but my design wasn't quite like that. < 1257712867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funnily enough, I clarified the difference between the two wildly different things. Do you really expect this conversation to go anywhere? No? Then shut up. < 1257712870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, managing to type those [0010] things doesn't make you look smart either. < 1257712878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1257712880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it data stream escape or something like that? < 1257712880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that key. < 1257712886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed it by mistake and didn't notice. < 1257712888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck off. < 1257712900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I could say that to you too. < 1257712910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"doesn't make you look smart"; are you a nursery teacher? < 1257712920 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm afraid I didn't get that reference. < 1257712959 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's no reference... he says exactly what he means < 1257712966 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he just wants to know if you are a nursery teacher... < 1257712970 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1257712972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257713053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so how exactly would you structure the ircd? < 1257713060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, all you have to do when processing the message in a single thread is indeed to figure out where it should go (local clients in channel + servers with clients in channel, you don't need to know which users here, just store local clients + servers with clients in channel list (have a separate list of remote clients, needed for other stuff)) < 1257713080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to write to the relevant fds (handling write queue as needed) < 1257713087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I haven't fleshed out the idea because I was too busy listening to and foolishly responding to AnMaster's inane babble (and that's the truth, not a passive-aggressive insult) < 1257713108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes you need to handle write queue with pipes too. They have a limited kernel buffer as well < 1257713135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[IRCServices] Ircd's and Services.... < 1257713136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the only multi-threaded ircd out there is efnet's. I could be wrong. Given your features, there is nothing that is multi-threaded that has this. ... < 1257713137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists.ircservices.za.net/pipermail/ircservices/2000/000856.html - Similar - < 1257713145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of IPC, I sometimes wonder how fast those old-style meant-for-IPC constructs are nowadays. Like, let's say, sysv message queues, where you can msgsnd() things to one message queue, have a "long"-typed message type field in each, and have N other processes doing msgrcv() that are optionally filtered by the message type; it supports "return first message", "return first message of a given type" and even the rather strange "return the first lowest-typed < 1257713145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : message in the queue as long as the type is less than or equal to the given type". < 1257713148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you think efnet's ircd scales? < 1257713151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't answer that < 1257713154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just want to add that efnet uses multiple ircds < 1257713156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even back in 2000 it most certainly did) < 1257713161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratbox is amongst them < 1257713166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they used just one ircd back in 2000 < 1257713174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, efnet very clearly scales. < 1257713184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. I can only comment on current state < 1257713195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have no clue what they did in 2000 < 1257713197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratbox is the majority server on efnet anyway < 1257713207 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on efnet i sometimes have significant lag to others < 1257713223 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: too often and too much to say it's me or the others connection < 1257713225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the ircd mentioned in that mail is ratbox? < 1257713232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: True, but EFNet is also basically DDoSed constantly. < 1257713233 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't imply it's the ircds fault < 1257713240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: And it has the gnarliest mass of routing servers ever. < 1257713249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll check. < 1257713313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jix: And it has the gnarliest mass of routing servers ever. <-- isn't ircnet just as bad when it comes to the routing? < 1257713313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, can't figure out. < 1257713327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever — EFNet was threaded in 2000, and EFNet clearly scaled in 2000. < 1257713343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since fork() is, like, 10x more hip than threads, it will undoubtedly work. :P < 1257713381 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you fork you have the problem of accessing the central state of the irc network don't you? < 1257713390 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or having to keep multiple copies of it < 1257713396 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or multiple copies of parts of it < 1257713405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except fork() has slightly higher overhead. Due to COW. Because with threads you can already from creating the thread have thread local variables ready and allocated, but with fork() those will be COWed on first use. Shouldn't matter much however. < 1257713416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: that's just another instance of ipc < 1257713417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/use/write/ < 1257713420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257713426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COW overhead is, like, 0 :P < 1257713439 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you would go with a central process managing the state? < 1257713442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and updates to the state won't happend transparently. Since if changed that will be COW < 1257713451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do special tricks < 1257713455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPC < 1257713462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Yes, the parent < 1257713466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude < 1257713470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even fork()ing webservers < 1257713472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :access global state < 1257713480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these "issues" are really inane < 1257713493 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but webservers use global state in a completely different way AFAIK < 1257713498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that adds a memory overhead per process. How significant it would be depends on how much state you have to keep up-to-date in each fork < 1257713519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, yes, they rarely need to update it at run time. < 1257713534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Global mutable state is something to be avoided generally anyway. < 1257713537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircds support reloading configs on the fly, and I doubt any irc operator would like to use an ircd that didn't support it < 1257713546 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but isn't that inherent to irc? < 1257713559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't want to restart an ircd to change server links. Just saying. < 1257713561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: In the same way that games depend on mutation and procedural code; i.e. not at all. < 1257713571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to add a new oper line < 1257713583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:52] AnMaster: ircds support reloading configs on the fly, and I doubt any irc operator would like to use an ircd that didn't support it < 1257713584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just spawn an ircd with the new config, move all child processes to it, tell them about it, and kill the old one < 1257713599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : just spawn an ircd with the new config, move all child processes to it, tell them about it, and kill the old one <-- interesting. *shudder* < 1257713632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not interesting, that's a robust, simple technique to restart a server without downtime. < 1257713636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done for upgrades too with some servers. < 1257713638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will be very surprised if this doesn't end up with uglier code than a single threaded one would < 1257713660 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but from the users point of view (many) games depend on mutation... so you have to come up with a way to describe that mutation without actually doing mutation < 1257713663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would do well to check an idea I've expressed isn't common before blanket-asserting that it's bad like usual < 1257713678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: there has been lots of work done on games in functional languages, it's actually quite pleasant < 1257713683 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i know < 1257713692 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'd use functional languages for game dev too < 1257713697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not saying it hasn't been done. But I read the code of some too. < 1257713718 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was just saying that you can't avoid managing a state that can be mutated if the irc protocol specifies a mutable state < 1257713734 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you have a purly functional language and use something like a state monad < 1257713772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Well, yeah. < 1257713784 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do that in one central process that IPCs to all other processes < 1257713799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, channel modes and bans? Stuff like that would be hard without mutable state < 1257713813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for network global bans < 1257713816 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd have to do event based IO in that process to server the childs? (that is a question) < 1257713817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glines) < 1257713891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't answer questions about the design because I've been too busy guessing answers to questions about the design to formulate the desiggn. < 1257713893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*design < 1257713924 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then please keep my question in mind until you get the design done < 1257713930 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the point where i'm stuck < 1257713943 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i try to design a forking ircd < 1257713989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! I am not crazy! Other people are as non-crazy as m— wait, no, I don't think this logically follows. < 1257713997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, you could do shared memory. like shared mmap()ed pages < 1257714004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAARGH < 1257714006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shared memory is evil < 1257714010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your fork()s just become threads < 1257714015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just about to get to that < 1257714053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "but that would be painful and require lots of synchronization and similar" < 1257714108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have to say an ircd doesn't sound quite as inherently suitable for a multi-process-for-each-client/peer implementation as a web server; for the supposedly-mentioned-but-can't-see-them-through-the-wall-of-text reasons of having each connection a long-lived thing that can affect all the other connections in various ways. (While in the web server case, after you've fork'd, the child just has to basically read(), sendfile() and exit().) < 1257714130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it can't be designed in the same way as a webserver. < 1257714196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you'll end up with a thousand-process "ps" listing, and that's just ugly. :p < 1257714234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus possibly do some logging (regarding forked child in web server that is) < 1257714258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But useful! < 1257714286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "argh I can't find which process is hogging the CPU because the list is so damn long"? < 1257714296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellooooooo, top(1) < 1257714297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really, just sort on a column) < 1257714327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usefulness is probably in the fact that you can run psdoom and go kill IRC people that you're annoyed with. < 1257714332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means something like: ps aux | LC_ALL=C sort -nk 3 < 1257714340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1257714341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LC_ALL=C there because locales messes up < 1257714346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or just top < 1257714364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps always uses 1.0, sort uses 1.0 or 1,0 or whatever the locale uses < 1257714375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck l10n < 1257714405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh true < 1257714408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck l10n? I guess you'll be speaking exclusively in English from hereon after, then. < 1257714438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or just "ps auxk -%cpu"; you know, ps can do the sorting just fine. < 1257714462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well no, rather it should be "fuck l10n related issues" < 1257714479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and why localise to English? ;P < 1257714494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, never knew. < 1257714507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's the most international language? I would say most widely used, but China wins on the account of having a huge fucking number of people. < 1257714509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, k for? < 1257714517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "k" for "sort", of kourse. < 1257714518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting? < 1257714521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages will die out within time. < 1257714527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah because "sort" contains no "k" < 1257714529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257714532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense < 1257714538 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i doubt that < 1257714545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It might be "sort *k*ey", but that's a bit far-fetched. < 1257714551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I'm not surprised. < 1257714560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh could be. < 1257714564 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that's just a feeling thing right now i have nothing to support that < 1257714569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU has a "--sort" long-flag which is a bit more rememberable. < 1257714619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh what is this database "mimer"? Never heard of it before. Seems to be used at uni. Sigh < 1257714642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"top" might still be better, though; it hopefully sorts processes before rounding things to the ##.# percentage format of ps. < 1257714650 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wasn't at some point someone studying computer scince in luebeck here? < 1257714677 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i hope ps sorts before doing that too < 1257714747 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking at the mac os x ps (some bsd ps according to the manpage) i need -r to sort for cpu usage < 1257714802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a bit nonstandard; the "k %cpu" works for this procps 3.2.8 ps I have. < 1257714823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use htop < 1257714825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: all os x userland is bsd. < 1257714843 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: define userland < 1257714853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has the "r" flag report only currently-running processes. < 1257714869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: cli userspace < 1257714877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the shit it changed which is minor < 1257714882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the coreutils etc are bsd < 1257714905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On my system it seems to mean I get the "ps auxr" command itself, and not much else; sometimes an [events/0] kernel thread, and once X in a 20-run set.) < 1257714910 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well there are some additional tools that are from apple < 1257714910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about stuff like hdiutil (if I remember the name correctly) < 1257714923 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole *util thing being part of that < 1257714940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: sure < 1257714942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1257714944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r Restrict the selection to only running processes. < 1257714946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1257714955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have more than one core and/or cpu < 1257714980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This one has the "r" flag report only currently-running processes. < 1257714987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what I said? < 1257714996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh sure. Missed that line somehow < 1257715535 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257715630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1257715635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the best HMD is < 1257715647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA ATTACK OF THE WORD YOU PROBABLYY DON'T KNOW < 1257715651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PROBABLY < 1257715795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be... Heavy Metal Detox. What on earth have you been doing? < 1257715844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Han Moo Do is a Korean-style martial art founded in Finland. It is mainly practiced in the Nordic countries." < 1257715864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1257715970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, head mounted display I assume? < 1257715974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1257715979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1257716039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1257716069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to know the word I mean (for me, that is. Not for people not interested in avionics or wearable computing) < 1257716081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1257716145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "targeting by looking" basically. Unlike with a HUD. Takes longer than just turning the head to target an aircraft that isn't straight ahead < 1257716157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, head mounted display is a display that's mounted on your head. < 1257716161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targeting by looking would be eye tracking. < 1257716184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. But you need a HMD to see the targeting info. Since a HUD wouldn't be where you are looking any more < 1257716200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could be looking to your side rather than ahead < 1257716202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Avionics HMDs are mostly transparent, yeah? < 1257716204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an overlay. < 1257716211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly yes. < 1257716221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, somewhat similar to a HUD in that respect < 1257716278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In wearable computing it's a usual LCD of course. < 1257716283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I think this module will kill me. SQL stuff. And not just as a useful tool. But all the damn theory too < 1257716295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relational theory stuff is quite good, I think. < 1257716307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL itself isn't a useful tool, though... nor is it relational. < 1257716307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using some weird closed source db server called "mimer sql" < 1257716325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transparent bendable OLEDs don't seem to have made it to market yet and I doubt they're very good for text. < 1257716348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a display attached to some safety goggles in your peripheral vision that you can focus on appears to be the best solution. < 1257716365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, which? The MyVu Crystal has colours, sure... but it's only 640x480. < 1257716380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at 1600 ppi, 640x480 does NOT get you much text. Or, well, anything, even at normal ppi. < 1257716407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not so bad since the .5" block of magic is close to your vision so it appears much bigger. But still.) < 1257716410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for avionics you need some text (distance to target, speed, altitude, possibly AoA, that sort of stuff) and some vector graphics (horizon line, and such). < 1257716445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the end result to be as close as possible to something I can program on, browse Wikipedia with and IRC with little trouble. < 1257716472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And preferably well-designed enough that it's easy to start to use within seconds — e.g. going from walking to using it. < 1257716479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra points if it's usable while walking, though that's not likely.) < 1257716483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is hardly the goal of HMD for combat pilots though. I don't know much about the HMDs that people like Gregor are interested in < 1257716485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A voice-based system could dothat. < 1257716488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do that < 1257716504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: People like Gregor and me! Except Gregor has a working wearable computer that he actually uses and I don't. :P < 1257716509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMDs are just tiny LCDs, really. < 1257716550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Extra points if it's usable while walking, though that's not likely.) <-- you could do an overlay to display map, somewhat like GPS with navigation capabilities < 1257716582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Readable through the bounce, bounce, bounce of walking? < 1257716584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be some feat. < 1257716592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point. < 1257716601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, afaik nobody uses a wearable computer to program. < 1257716620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never had to consider bouncing like that in aircrafts. :P < 1257716626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make it unobtrusive enough to go to bed with. That'd be some immersive alarm clock. < 1257716634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can do navigation stuff on a HMD < 1257716644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like highlighting where the air strip is < 1257716647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is foggy < 1257716658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that feature exists on some HUDs at least < 1257716672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outline of area where you need to land. Very useful < 1257716676 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257716686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main issue with sleeping with it would be the headset (if any), the display and the computer itself. < 1257716692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboard and pointing device should be fine. < 1257716713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wouldn't bother too much about that bit < 1257716735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People sleep with headphones on, so the headset should be fine; sleeping with safety glasses on is trivial, and the computer itself just needs to be in a pocket or whatever, not in a backpack. At least optionally. < 1257716759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, how does that work with normal glasses? < 1257716770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UI-ART people at the university are doing "Urban contextual information interfaces with multimodal augmented reality"; I think they were supposed to have some sort of Nokia-built silly head-mounted-display eye-tracking glasses prototype thing. I just can't seem to find any information about that part, just boring scientific papers about acoustics, eye-tracking and information retrieval. < 1257716777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same way; Gregor used safety goggles because he doesn't need glasses, and I'll do the same. < 1257716781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mount the computer display on them? or do you wear the other glases on top < 1257716788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257716812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite spending a large portion of my life staring at a display (CRT, even) without many breaks, I have better vision than most people! mwahahaha < 1257716839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, CRT? where? < 1257716844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-2006. < 1257716847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1257716856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At high resolution, too. < 1257716862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My refresh rate was... so low. < 1257716867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does staring on a display really affect your long term vision though= < 1257716867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think like 60 Hz or something < 1257716870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257716875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A constantly-flashing CRT? < 1257716876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257716879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An LCD? No. < 1257716884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yeah if it was 60 Hz < 1257716893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a 75 Hz CRT? < 1257716893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just 60 Hz, 60 Hz on a really bad, old CRT. < 1257716901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has one good eye, and one eye that can barely see
< 1257716903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 80 Hz is the comfortable refresh for a CRT. < 1257716906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything below is bad. < 1257716910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 Hz is glorious. < 1257716937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I began my computing with a laptop. Never had a CRT. Used CRTs yes, but never owned one. < 1257716937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the flickering was compounded by the high resolution at 17"... < 1257716941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(smaller than 17" LCD; CRT) < 1257716952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bad CRT blurring things... < 1257716962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet I still have awesome sight. < 1257717005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't. *shrug*. Maybe the effect it has on vision is somewhat indivdual? < 1257717011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :individual* < 1257717024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I'm just durable. My metabolism is really fast, too, so I'm permanently uber-skinny. < 1257717035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't seem to require all that much sustenance. < 1257717036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would CRTs hae an effect on vision? < 1257717039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that doesn't work. I had glasses before I really began using computer much < 1257717042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers* < 1257717043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because they flash every update < 1257717047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how they work < 1257717053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frame sent, it fades quickly, frame sent < 1257717065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 80 Hz, it's not that noticeable, at 100 Hz, it disappears to the human eye < 1257717070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything below 80 Hz, you can see the flickering < 1257717076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that that could cause headaches, but how can it hurt vision? < 1257717078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your eyes are being pounded with flashing light < 1257717087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: imagine staring at a strobe light for hours upon hours < 1257717092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much it < 1257717166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the CRTs I used were mostly apple. Which were good ones I guess. Even back on performas < 1257717175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257717190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine was a second-hand 17" Compaq that had a scratch in the casing. < 1257717203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ran at some 5xx * something res iirc < 1257717212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5xx and 3xx? < 1257717214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1257717231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why didn't you run it at lower res? < 1257717239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More pixels. < 1257717247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and? < 1257717255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the flicker didn't bother me. < 1257717261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-highest res doesn't look bad on a CRT < 1257717261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could read the tiny, smudged text. < 1257717284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, why not more pixels? I didn't care about eye strain because I'd never had a problem (and it seems I was right). < 1257717290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually ran at 1280x1024, I think. No, wait, that's 5:4. Um... maybe it was stretched and I never knew. < 1257717323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x1024 is pretty common for 17" iirc? < 1257717324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used PowerStrip to get a higher res than Windows would allow, but ran into the limit of my 32 MiB SiS graphics... < 1257717331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nowadays, yes. < 1257717334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that thing? Hell no. < 1257717338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 17" CRT. < 1257717341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't visible-area. < 1257717345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think my old syncmaster (RIP) used that < 1257717349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was 17" < 1257717375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1257717401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is starting to be creeped out
< 1257717414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some person keeps knocking at the door. It happened yesterday, and twice today < 1257717426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a person. < 1257717427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. didn't you answer the door? < 1257717432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The car has been the same car for both times today. Don't remember yesterday < 1257717433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, no < 1257717435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TALK? TO PEOPLE? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1257717438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW COULD YOU < 1257717460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why not < 1257717474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for once I enjoy your sarcastic comments. < 1257717512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha the guy who dropped the Boscom terminal board to destroy the rivets burned it at the request of one forum member < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>I've run out of ways to torture the Boscom. < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very imaginative. However, you did run out of Boscom it seems. < 1257717553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257717608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did he? < 1257717616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems stupid. < 1257717624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fun? < 1257717631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy has a shitload of keyboards anyway. < 1257717645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's fun to see what well-made keyboards can withstand. < 1257717647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would be surprised if they are still manufactured < 1257717652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are. < 1257717656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're manufactured by Unicomp. < 1257717657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? interesting < 1257717668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter, anyway, as there'll be a bunch in circulation. < 1257717675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it is a terminal keyboard? < 1257717679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257717696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people still uses them? < 1257717697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257717703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Unicomp made a tenkeyless Endurapro :-((((((((((((((((((((((( < 1257717711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is that < 1257717714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think things like ancient corporate account systems < 1257717741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at some point they will all be replaced. Sure it may take a while, but it will happen < 1257717754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in hundreds of years. < 1257717768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just about to say that "by 2100 I doubt any of them are still in use" < 1257717797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endurapro is http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html, which is basically a standard-layout board but with a smaller bezel than the almost-identical-to-Model M Customiser. It also has a nipple mouse (probably quite good, as they took over from Lexmark who took over from IBM). Tenkeyless is a keyboard without the number pad. < 1257717814 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257717835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is Lexmark still around? < 1257717842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printers, yeah. < 1257717853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboards, nope, they stopped makin' em and Unicomp was founded and bought up their shit. < 1257717855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their shit < 1257717868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lexmark is just the spinoff of IBM's keyboard+printer division when IBM went "ok let's get rid of this shit". < 1257717871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They made Model Ms for a while. < 1257717876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since 1991 or 1993 or something like that) < 1257717883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, tenkeyless Endurapro + their nice black no-lettering keycaps + some greasing on the springs = Hey, a sleek, modern, low-profile buckling spring keyboard that doesn't clatter nearly as much as the old ones. < 1257717895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used to have a Lexmark printer years ago < 1257717900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got it to work under linux. < 1257717911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HP one that replaced it worked out of box < 1257717917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Unicomp's idea of a product with a different design is this puzzling item: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/noname1.html < 1257717943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are... not the most innovative or progressive company. < 1257717985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh indeed < 1257717993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do they have that in a terminal variant? < 1257718001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you ask them! < 1257718004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1257718022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you can get that Wildcats keyboard with PS/2 *or* AT connector. < 1257718033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I was expecting the second item in the drop-down to be USB. < 1257718158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I had the same reaction seconds before < 1257718177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the keyboards anyone would buy from them are available in USB, though. < 1257718187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Navigating their site really pisses me off < 1257718202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menus change as you go around, and there's no link to /keyboards.html, the main page < 1257718364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/linux101.html <-- heh.... < 1257718395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They list the SpaceSaver there?! < 1257718418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1257718422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that thingg < 1257718424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1257718433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are you talking about? < 1257718437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1257718481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw why are some of the keys a different colour I wonder. < 1257718487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never could find a good reason for it < 1257718492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On which < 1257718499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/pckeyboards_2075_1033946 for example < 1257718548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The SpaceSaver PS2 models can be programmed at the time of manufacture, the USB models are not programmable." <-- huh? < 1257718548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, which to write first... My httpd, my web-thingy, or my document-writing thingy < 1257718555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmed? < 1257718562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web-thingy kinda depends on document-writing thiingy < 1257718563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: layout < 1257718573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't that up to the OS keymaps? < 1257718573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, to mark non-self printing keys < 1257718577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the top row it's just for aesthetics < 1257718589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backspace is printing in a way, I guess < 1257718597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but enter is too < 1257718598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh < 1257718599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's arbitrary < 1257718602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just to look good, really < 1257718625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so are some of them on the numkeypad < 1257718640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all, apart from numlock < 1257718679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cats_with_fraudulent_diplomas < 1257718695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, *blink* < 1257718701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1257718707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>| < 1257718712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to see [[List of cats with legitimate diplomas]] < 1257718713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur old < 1257718715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1257718868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks around the various interwebnet shoppan' sites for a http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif
< 1257718896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone just has the wheel version, it seems < 1257718906 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257718923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257718935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the little finger indents on the buttons. < 1257718943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't more pointing devices have them? < 1257718962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trackman Marble by Logitech (Toy) < 1257718963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that categorisation very offensive! < 1257719001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Everyone just has the wheel version, it seems <-- you don't want a mouse wheel? < 1257719014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do! But I want a middle mouse button that isn't a wheel. < 1257719020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11. Pasting. < 1257719036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clicking a scroll wheel isn't hard < 1257719043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bad for your finger. < 1257719044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, in between the buttons isn't the most comfortable place for a wheel to go anyway. < 1257719048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do X11 pasting with a tilt-able scroll wheel all the time < 1257719052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no issues with ti < 1257719053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1257719064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your hands do, though. < 1257719076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the Plan 9 people say that you must have three real buttons. < 1257719087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I rest my hand on all the buttons, so it's especially important. < 1257719089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "even"? < 1257719099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that it's widely accepted. < 1257719111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I rest my hand so I don't rest it on the scrollwheel < 1257719114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/jPy3i.png, with the trackball lower down like in http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif (I'm a terrible drawer) is my perfect trackball. < 1257719132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where do you want your scrollwheel then? < 1257719133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convenient place for the scroll wheel, and you ca n rest on it and still use the left and middle buttons — great for web browsing. < 1257719137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click the damn link. < 1257719139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can < 1257719147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, links. < 1257719159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want a cable in your foot? < 1257719209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go see a doctor about that swollen toe (and the missing ones. Maybe the big one cannibalised some of the small ones?) < 1257719221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of them rather < 1257719236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ignored your bad attempt at being funny in the first line, but spending three lines on it is just embarrassing. < 1257719259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no joke you can't drag out even more < 1257719272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a good thing) < 1257719280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£17.99 + £2.08 shipping for a used-but-in-very-good-condition, seemingly wheel-less TrackMan Marble? < 1257719288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss < 1257719295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great deal < 1257719317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think I can use the trackball as a mouse wheel. < 1257719333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set up some trickery to let me hold the middle button and move the trackball to scroll, say. < 1257719441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't that break pasting? Unless you manage to get it to paste on button release if trackball hasn't moved < 1257719447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably require patching X < 1257719469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. I don't know. < 1257719477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have a modifier key on the keyboard do it. < 1257719495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for such a cheap price I can pick up a wheeled version if it doesn't work out, < 1257719499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out. < 1257719554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trackman marble mouse only. No box, manual or software." < 1257719562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gosh, what will I do without the huge box letting me know it supports Windows 95? < 1257719565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257719569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the detailed manual on how to press your finger down to click? < 1257719576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR THE WINDOWS 9X-ONLY DRIVERS?! < 1257719579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't possibly buy it. < 1257719607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257719788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5579&d=1257695395 < 1257719788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the abomination! < 1257720169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the keys seems to not match each other? < 1257720176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like alt-gr and the menu one < 1257720180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close. Look carefully. < 1257720190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different angles, different convexities on the surface < 1257720216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check the windows key and the alt key on the left side for example < 1257720222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THEY DON'T MATCH* < 1257720227 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257720230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHY ARE YOU TYPING LIKE THIS* < 1257720243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I hit the wrong key :P < 1257720253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was supposed to be lower case < 1257720272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apart from that I never seen a "help" key before < 1257720314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the alt key. < 1257720332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mac? < 1257720348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. Look at the other key very near it... < 1257720356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either one or two places away on each side. < 1257720366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows yes < 1257720376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN! IT'S A HYBRID DELL AT101W AND APPLE EXTENDED KEYBOARD II CHIMERA! < 1257720379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! < 1257720379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said the key hight and such didn't match. < 1257720392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU TYPING LIKE THIS? < 1257720402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The letters and main punctuation (but not \|) are from the AEKII too < 1257720406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TERROR, PANIC < 1257720430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would (due to the key height mentioned) be horrible to type on < 1257720486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, the camera accentuates it. < 1257720494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the main block of keys is all the same height. < 1257720510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, enter and such too? < 1257720522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but "eh". < 1257720534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey -- could use some of the wisdom of your xorg champs. I found this link on how to emulate the scroll wheel using the logitech marble trackball. I figure any trackball would work for this, but what I was wondering is whether or not I could emulate the scroll wheel by using the "Windows" key and the trackball -- that is to say, if I hold the Windows key down, could I then use the trackball to scroll?" < 1257720537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKEMINDED PEOPLE <3 < 1257720574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :P < 1257720713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257721027 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really love the apple keyboards < 1257721030 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new ones < 1257721037 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they have even newer ones already < 1257721089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bashes jix with a buckling spring
< 1257721095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begone, foul demon of the scissor switch! < 1257721101 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1257721106 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah slim keyboards are not everyones favourite < 1257721128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks up a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2 and throws it at jix
< 1257721132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This minimalist enough for you?! Eh?! < 1257721140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws a gigantic Model F terminal board for good measure
< 1257721190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Begone, foul demon of the scissor switch! <-- isn't that what most laptops have? < 1257721205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and Apple keyboards since ~2007 < 1257721209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257721210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, more like all laptops < 1257721214 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid keyboard < 1257721226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, always wondered why laptops don't have just membrane ones < 1257721235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size < 1257721246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scissor switch keyboards are much less thick < 1257721249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less key travel < 1257721251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: which < 1257721258 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the happy hacking one < 1257721269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not, it has topre keyswitches and a well-designed layout < 1257721289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the lite one is useless (rubber dome) but the professional is worth it for the keyswitches alone... < 1257721322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are those really full sized keys? < 1257721336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what < 1257721341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happy hacking < 1257721343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1257721350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a perfectly usable keyboard < 1257721354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no arrow keys < 1257721359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fn+some letters < 1257721360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which < 1257721362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe wasd < 1257721369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds horrible. < 1257721380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded < 1257721384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want less keys < 1257721388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no f-keys < 1257721394 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no number pad < 1257721406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, there are arguments both for and against numpad. < 1257721413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see both points of view < 1257721425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: f key is fn+number < 1257721435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only goes to F10 then? < 1257721436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great because you can access everything from the home row < 1257721437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not F12? < 1257721444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a way to do more iirc < 1257721458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: less keys = everything accessible from the home row, minimalist, and the mouse is closer < 1257721477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse context-switching time is expensive; the width of a numberpad and middle-area is not to be sniffed at < 1257721481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes a large differnce < 1257721484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*difference < 1257721484 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accessible" means accessible without a chord < 1257721484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more keys = actually able to play nethack without going mad (I use numpad yes) < 1257721498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: tell that to every user of the HHKB Pro 2 < 1257721504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all three? < 1257721504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anyone who's bought it and been dissatisfied < 1257721611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing fn and a key to get pageup is faster than moving over to the pageup key anyway < 1257721774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressing Fn-; and Fn-P to fly up and down in AW is annoying < 1257721800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, if you go through the trouble of getting such a keyboard, I'm sure you won't let yourself be disappointed with it, even if it had a feature that'd randomly stick rusty nails through your fingers. < 1257721824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude, you should see some of the criticism the people on geekhack lob at expensive keyboards they bought and can't return. < 1257721847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ~$250 HHKB Pro 2 isn't even the most expensive keyboard fawned over by a long shot. < 1257721854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one of the most popular full stop, though, regardless of price. < 1257721858 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie I have one of those, you get used to it after a while < 1257721873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: One of the rusty nail ones? < 1257721874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pressing fn and a key to get pageup is faster than moving over to the pageup key anyway <-- not really, it is moving about 2 cm from standard position to reach pgup < 1257721882 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257721884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, < 1257721890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chording is still very faast. < 1257721891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgup and insert should be swapped < 1257721892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fast < 1257721904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making the decision to move 2 cm takes a non-negligible amount of time too. < 1257721908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. But annoying if you need to do a key combo with those < 1257721913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ctrl-alt-f12 < 1257721914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus we're lumbering, slow beasts, except for our fingers. Which are really snappy. < 1257721951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face is a lumbering, slow beast < 1257721974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the HHKB, that's (using normal key positions) Caps Lock + Windows + Rightmost bit of right shift key < 1257721976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257721977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your mom is really snappy with her fingers though! < 1257721978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ dunno < 1257721994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lumbering, slow beast on your face! How have you not noticed that?! < 1257722000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caps Lock is actually control, alt key is next to an inexplicably big windows key which is next to the space bar (swap them, srsly) < 1257722004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn is next to right shift < 1257722013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's actually a pretty comfortable key chord, really < 1257722015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spread out and all < 1257722023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Rightmost bit of right shift key"? < 1257722027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell? < 1257722028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://antiflash.org/notes/computers/happy_hacking_keyboard_pro_2/spacesaver_hhkbpro2_small.jpg < 1257722032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like I said caps lock < 1257722037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's to the right of the right shift key < 1257722045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one ok < 1257722048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying it that way so you could orient yourself on a regular keyboard < 1257722053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong shape for return < 1257722054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why I said windows when the key in that position is alt < 1257722059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, right shape for return < 1257722062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants Europan vertical return
< 1257722066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :European* < 1257722073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO layout is shit, and I say this as someone who used it for years and years then switched < 1257722081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've switched back to ISO for this shitty keyboard, and I fucking hate it < 1257722086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used both. Can't stand the US one < 1257722102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit the enter in the wrong place on it all the time. That is, where there is no enter < 1257722105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing you that probably means you used the US layout for 5 minutes after 50 years of using ISO 24/7 < 1257722117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hit enter at the top? < 1257722120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, your pinky hates you. < 1257722124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean reaaaaaaaally hates you. < 1257722136 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pinky gets sore whenever i write lisp < 1257722138 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1257722138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I no on the middle. Right between the two rows on US layout < 1257722159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I // < 1257722163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: rebind [] to () and put [] on shifted 9 and 0. () is way more common in both english text and lisp < 1257722171 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbonbondood you use paredit? < 1257722172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the adjustment needed is very little < 1257722191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not 50 years. and I used US layout for a few months. Sure I used the ISO layout for more. But still a few months is usually enough to get used to a new keyboard < 1257722204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, not a whole new layout < 1257722235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't have that keyboard for more. So couldn't do anything about it. So what do you think is enough? If 5 months isn't < 1257722252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me. < 1257722276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or maybe your "US layout is better" *isn't* an universal truth < 1257722284 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257722285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is subjective? ever considered that? < 1257722288 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257722291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1257722315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, welcome to HUMAN COMMUNICATION, where people state opinions as fact because otherwise EVERY SINGLE THING they say would be prefixed by "In my opinion,". < 1257722339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I bothered to type that out, seeing as you appear to realise it for a few months and then promptly forget with a smarmy pseudo-sarcastic statement. < 1257722345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even so " Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me." seems to indicate it is something universal < 1257722346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257722348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't adjust to it from ISO" isn't an argument against the US layout, subjective or not, by the way. < 1257722359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an argument against you not using the US layout, which is different. < 1257722363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed it was < 1257722364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you fail pretty much entirely. < 1257722367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you did. < 1257722381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You called it the "wrong" shape for enter. < 1257722388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That phrases it as an argument against the US layout itself. < 1257722426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for me yes. I never said it was universal. While your " Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me." seemed to indicate your opinion was somehow "better" than mine. < 1257722428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1257722430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257722470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just hate me with a force so strong that your brain actually injects such things in between the lines of my messages. < 1257722610 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257722621 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a spell in D&D game, is this good enough: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/Suppress_Lycanthropy.txt < 1257722829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked that before. < 1257722863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257722904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4104&stc=1&d=1251471829 < 1257722907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More Boscom torturer < 1257722910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torture < 1257723332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some MIDIs (unfortunately, each individual MIDI and other sound is zipped): http://objects.activeworlds.com/aw/sounds < 1257723450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some of the zips seem to be invalid < 1257723720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no esolang talk in here anymore < 1257723722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny < 1257723817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The invalid zips seem to be ones with filenames less than 8 characters, not including the dot and extension < 1257723830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm wrong < 1257724561 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257724705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: because there's no esolang activity anymore < 1257724711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all just sitting around waiting for feather < 1257724940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Feather was unimplementable? < 1257724981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are we waiting for the spec? Or is my memory pure crap>? < 1257724982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257725006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably implementable. < 1257725019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is implementing it to figure out what the spec is, I think is the basic idea. < 1257725022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime. < 1257725085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is making and distributing MIDIs of copyrighted songs considered copyright violation? < 1257725104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1257725130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what shouldn't annoy me but does? < 1257725131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So AWI comitted copyright violations? < 1257725142 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWI? < 1257725163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds Incorporated, I think < 1257725180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*committed, and I wouldn't call a victimless crime something you can commit. < 1257725181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I get all worked up about downloading something that I feel really bad for doing (e.g. an indy game) and then discover it's on a CC license < 1257725239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the guilt of one who, somewhere in their mind, has a vague, denied feeling that this amazing sharing technology can't be immoral but still deludes themself into thinking it is so. < 1257725241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember that! < 1257725313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't feel the same level of guilt for things made by idiot companies - it's only indie stuff < 1257725328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally irrelevant to what i said < 1257725352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was responding to the underlying sarcasm < 1257725365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, any underlying point had nothing to do with that either < 1257725420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutation (in Active Worlds) played MIDId versions of the Conan the Barbarian theme, Lothlorien, a Tomb Raider song, a FF7 song, a song from the Fifth Element, and probably some others I don't remember offhand < 1257725473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's user-created, isn't it? < 1257725511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really relevant? < 1257725517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutation, yes, although it was known to everyone < 1257725538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An AWI world did play MIDId versions of copyrighted stuff, though < 1257725604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sgeo has an obsession about every aspect of old VR games (mostly Active Worlds) that borders on the creepily unhealthy. < 1257725618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, I've noticed < 1257725649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWGate played MIDId versions of Come on Eileen, Africa, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Closing Time, Flagpole Sitta, Another Brick in the Wall, Losing my Religion, Zoot Suit Riot, and much more < 1257725655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't amusing I'd be tying him and Rugxlo or however you spell it together and dumping them in the middle of the Amazon < 1257725669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and AWGate is owned by AWI) < 1257725751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) yes, that's infringement < 1257725756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) no one cares < 1257725794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is the responsibility of every citizen to ignore dumb laws." —Ian Clarke < 1257725884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright is, more or less, a type of law that's designed to provide remedies for egregious circumstances and ignore the trivial ones < 1257725891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1257725905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely NO doubt that that was NOT on the minds of ANY of the lawmakers that produced copyright. < 1257725919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't have conciously been in mind, no < 1257725935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it fails terribly at that, FWIW < 1257725947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it does < 1257725950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also disagree strongly that the circumstances it kicks in are egregious — *any* of them < 1257725955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the Internet came and screwed everything up < 1257725964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They certainly are if you come at them from the old way of thinking... < 1257725976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'm not a fan of neo-Ludditism, though. < 1257726024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm talking things like someone mass-marketing copies of a film. < 1257726043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gathered. < 1257726066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably you would be surprised to find out that I don't think copyright has a place there either. < 1257726071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I wouldn't be < 1257726075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we've had this talk before < 1257726084 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with your opinion, though < 1257726111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonsense; we all know that I am unable to have rational debate and just cover up for my ignorance with childish insults. Uh, unless that was another coppro. < 1257726211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*buys a trackball* < 1257726296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to decide between writing his document authoring tool and writing an httpd
< 1257726316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :document authoring tool: more unique, less interesting < 1257726320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpd: less unique, more interesting < 1257726400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpd would be a lot more challenging, too, although perhaps easier < 1257726415 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the point of either < 1257726421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's a contradiction < 1257726699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use. httpd is more of a fun reinvention thing, but document authoring tools are seriously subpar. < 1257726879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agree! < 1257728081 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is a document authoring tool < 1257728220 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfV93ZMSmOQ&feature=related < 1257728926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257734949 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257735444 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257735922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5lGOMYvxxU < 1257736309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :__nick < 1257736318 0 :__nick!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1257736339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :__mikem < 1257736344 0 :__mikem!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1257736448 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257736471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have invented a new power and a new feat. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Backward_Heal.p http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Useless_Magecraft_%283.5e_Feat%29 < 1257736486 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please review < 1257736656 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257737112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"-____" < 1257738306 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257738416 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257739209 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257740065 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257741790 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1257744372 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257744375 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257748878 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257750312 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257750487 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257750498 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1257750972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257751000 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257752335 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-sjycnzrnoeotsfoi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257753500 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257753599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257753600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257754179 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1257754570 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-12-93.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257754926 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257755663 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257757436 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257757474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257765867 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257768282 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257768287 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257769209 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: probably the most boring thing i've ever heard < 1257769275 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay the elements are great, but there isn't enough for more than a minute of music < 1257769650 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257770727 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257771446 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257771795 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-82.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257772907 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257773156 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257774469 0 :FireFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257774514 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B13389F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257774576 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257775691 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257776221 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1257776402 0 :FireFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257776809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257777038 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257778643 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257781069 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257781697 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to make a program that computes a random sequence if you have a halting oracle? < 1257782002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257784221 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257785203 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257785526 0 :FireyFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257785588 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1257785604 0 :FireyFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly[DS] < 1257786559 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257786563 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257786885 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257787670 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257787983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257788084 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257788259 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257788272 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257788424 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257788490 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257788502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it possible to make a program that computes a random sequence if you have a halting oracle? < 1257788502 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257788512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of random i would assume... < 1257788595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random as in no pattern detectable by any computable program, maybe... < 1257788663 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm a finite sequence is not random? < 1257788668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it might still be possible to detect it if you had a halting oracle of the next degree (for the language with the first halting oracle included) < 1257788770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm with kolmogorov complexity a finite sequence is random if it is incompressible, isn't it. < 1257788783 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1257788791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a halting oracle might be able to verify that. < 1257788803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, reboot < 1257788804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257788840 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I think we could generate every terminating program (size less than n) that produces a length n sequence and take the biggest sequences < 1257788875 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should be able to generate randomness (other than chaitins omega) with a halting oracle < 1257789032 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257789242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257789569 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257790398 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaitin's omega is random enough. < 1257791027 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257791048 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257791215 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257792490 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1257792892 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257793924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything better than graphviz for making an ER diagram (needed for current module at uni. Otherwise I wouldn't do this) < 1257793941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphviz is basically a pain for this. < 1257793973 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257793986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if ais523 knows
< 1257794013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1257794038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257794040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257794128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again, sound financial advice there < 1257794142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in the annotation yes < 1257794151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there too < 1257794156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1257794378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is wondering slightly why neither inkscape nor firefox seems to handle underlined text in svgs.
< 1257794389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the spec to make sure I was correct < 1257794517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs. Now I'm really annoyed. I should have *known* CTAN would have something for it < 1257794553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't find it before though < 1257794602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PGF hm. Never heard of it before. Seems to be in texlive though < 1257794671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the ER part doesn't seem to be default. At least I can't locate that < 1257794680 0 :FireFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257794893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay /usr/share/texmf/tex/generic/pgf/frontendlayer/tikz/libraries/tikzlibraryer.code.tex is there < 1257794969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm not texlive. Have it for some other unknown reason < 1257795773 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257795776 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257795944 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90b59@gateway/web/freenode/x-dpifrxscdatewmon JOIN :#esoteric < 1257795947 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257796957 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257798533 0 :FireyFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257798726 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1257798783 0 :FireyFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly[DS] < 1257799312 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257799472 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1257799719 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.250.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257799736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, x'y" ~= x.y m < 1257799756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a sufficiently vague definition of ~= < 1257799771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1'44" = 1.42 m, at least < 1257800009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nabs a Logitech TrackMan Marble for £20.07
< 1257800012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And selecting x and y how? That's also 4'8" :-P < 1257800012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including shipping) < 1257800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:31:39 to use. httpd is more of a fun reinvention thing, but document authoring tools are seriously subpar. < 1257800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:34:39 Agree! < 1257800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once! < 1257800031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Erm... ignore me, I'm ... stupid >_< < 1257800047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:54:41 wtf is a document authoring tool < 1257800047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thingy < 1257800049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1257800055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a document format + a processor for this format < 1257800063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION = HELPFUL
< 1257800104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid + HELPFUL = dAnGeRoUs MaDnEsS < 1257800216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't believe how cheap that trackball is :| < 1257800444 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257800650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a fever < 1257800674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only cure is less stupid references < 1257800678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oink! < 1257800682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun at first to have such a different sort of imagination, but i cannot do math, not at all. < 1257800686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geddit geddit < 1257800693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 2+2= < 1257800717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get anything < 1257800726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not math, i can execute algorithms just fine < 1257800757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is an algorithm! < 1257800773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes i mean i can execute deterministic algorithms < 1257800825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is not yet quantum < 1257800861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: everything is deterministic < 1257800881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just construct the simulated universe so that it has no patterns like the numbers you give to it as random! < 1257801056 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257801075 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133427.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257801127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... don't understand you < 1257801175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor i, oklopol < 1257801176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor i < 1257801177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Gregor < 1257801183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah hey greg < 1257801186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have two (2) submissions to t-rex is lonely < 1257801188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the party < 1257801190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. the first two panels of today's comic < 1257801194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. the first two and last panels of today's comic < 1257801206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title: < 1257801209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backstory < 1257801212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did t-rex is so lonely continue? < 1257801223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelydino.com/ < 1257801235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dino is a cute word < 1257801259 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible plagarism < 1257801260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelydino.com/?id=75 xD < 1257801271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: the word is plagiarism, and how on earth is it plagiarism? < 1257801279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a derivative work, yes; it's not plagiarism < 1257801292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And selecting x and y how? That's also 4'8" :-P <-- how many " makes up a ' ? < 1257801304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3i2 < 1257801314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be inferrable from that exchange < 1257801321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, too tired? < 1257801331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe he just doesn't want to hand you stuff on a silver platter < 1257801334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd've googled it in the time you've spent thus far < 1257801342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :units(1) to the rescue < 1257801346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 12? < 1257801351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: AnMaster doesn't BELIIIIIIIIIEVE in google < 1257801364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct. Like you said you didn't believe in paper. < 1257801400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true, out-of-context and completely irrelevant. < 1257801414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations. You have reached the Altar of the Stupid Trifecta! < 1257801469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a creative no < 1257802330 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.248.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257802592 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://22.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kqd6xcT6AP1qzqhmeo1_500.jpg < 1257803170 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice :-D < 1257803215 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1257803218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257803218 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1257803233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah colloquy, you and your ninja nick-grabbing < 1257803233 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, auto-rename < 1257803235 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1257803239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ghosting for you, just wait... and... pounce < 1257803304 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257803524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://14.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks8bucdZ4W1qz4rgro1_500.png < 1257803525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBIAN USERS: So generous < 1257803881 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257803931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't get it. < 1257803948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should have specified. Statistics from a pay-as-much-as-you-want system. < 1257803953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game, World of Goo. < 1257803962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1257804020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on how many times the links generated to a given person were retrieved, or what? < 1257804024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://2dboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bycountry.png < 1257804024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWISS DEBIAN USERS: They love you < 1257804035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Presumably you can only buy one. < 1257804052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I got it and it gives you links for all the platforms. < 1257804065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the pay-what-you-want system? < 1257804069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257804075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they set up a "WHICH PLATFORM WILL YOU USE THIS ON LULZ" field? < 1257804079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd remember. < 1257804081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1257804082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I have the .tar.gz, mac one, and windows one. < 1257804090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU HATE DEBIAN OR SOMETHING < 1257804106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually recall a .deb there at all. :-P < 1257804109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably paid like -$0.01 < 1257804114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's the same thing as the .tar.gz anyway. < 1257804116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: DO YOU HATE RPMS < 1257804134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know enough about them to have an opinion. < 1257804145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well they hate you. Because you PASSED THEM BY < 1257804148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IGNORED themm < 1257804158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I paid $4 once and $1 once. < 1257804175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1257804191 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257804480 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257804840 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257804894 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-71-163-207-43.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257806101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wb ehird < 1257806104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen you here for a while... < 1257806109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257806110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I just not been paying attention? < 1257806128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was here on the weekend. < 1257806134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for a week before, thereabouts < 1257806340 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anybody guess what causes this: "relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.text' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC". :-) < 1257806355 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ld error message) < 1257806372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you're using dynamic linking. Stop that < 1257806423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding -fPIC to line doesn't do anything to that error... < 1257806794 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(answer: Trying to link X64 object file into X86 shared library). < 1257806850 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it says recompile with -fPIC, not re-link < 1257806864 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, a bit obscure < 1257806892 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you know that R_X86_64_32 means turning 64-bit code into 32-bit code or whatever < 1257806900 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, for that file, it is "Re-Assemble". < 1257806901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the fukka switches suck yeah? < 1257806919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it the XMs < 1257806931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which they were < 1257806948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think fukka < 1257806968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filco font is nice < 1257807062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/mmw3Z.png < 1257807090 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twatter or farcebook? < 1257807186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit. < 1257807201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbid < 1257807205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a hee-larie-us corruption of that name, SimonRC? < 1257807209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could give it a try. < 1257807216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1257807232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shut up, they ruined the rayman franchise < 1257807242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257807280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257807368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google/wp to the rescue < 1257807381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is that like gnu/linux < 1257807396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way around < 1257807426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picture looks rabid enough < 1257807476 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION played Rayman 2 for the conworlding
< 1257807483 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the music < 1257807487 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gods that yes < 1257807496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know: wrecktit! < 1257807522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wreckdit might be better speeling < 1257807550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: rayman 2's music is awesome < 1257807568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda silly thing to say, everything about it is awesome :P < 1257807613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even well-coded enough that you can run it in widescreen and there's no glitches... although you have to edit an .ini to set it < 1257807623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if forcing anti-aliasing works; prolly < 1257807648 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wrekkit" < 1257807674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1257807747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha python sucks so much (correction: rc is so much cooler) < 1257807756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for some things) < 1257807759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER) < 1257807792 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257808037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_[] < 1257808045 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it was free < 1257808307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you feel more complete? < 1257808345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_[]: what language is that? < 1257808366 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my nick? none? < 1257808367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char _[] = "foo"; is valid C < 1257808375 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1257808376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1257808385 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be valid befunge too < 1257808392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is valid befunge. < 1257808393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also probably valid Prolog, on the basis that most strings of punctuation marks are valid Prolog < 1257808394 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost everything could < 1257808400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC square brackets can be an exception < 1257808409 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no. Not the bytes 1 1 1 < 1257808421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_[]: It's valid. It's a program that never halts. < 1257808427 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably valid perl? < 1257808434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1257808437 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dh, < 1257808441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1257808445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ is a bareword in that context < 1257808451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is valid Perl, in the right context < 1257808460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it calls a function called _ on a reference to an empty list < 1257808462 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's the secret easter egg. to erase your harddrive < 1257808468 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD < 1257808473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that means you have to define a function called _ first < 1257808477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody would really want to do that < 1257808494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a silly name for a function < 1257808502 0 :_[]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :[]_ < 1257808545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sub _ {print shift,"\n";} _[]" gives me the output ARRAY(0x8f6d880) < 1257808560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]_ is probably a syntax error, though < 1257808573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bareword found where operator expected at - line 1, near "]_" < 1257808576 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on top of all users lists but ##c it seems < 1257808584 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some [1]st is on top < 1257808584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's before you? < 1257808588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257808589 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too lazy top copy it
< 1257808606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChanServ's beating you on user lists where it's there too < 1257808610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is o good about the name _[]? < 1257808611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my client sorts ops to the top < 1257808618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is your s key working properly? < 1257808626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssssss < 1257808628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's valid Perl! in the right context... < 1257808629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think o < 1257808634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1257808643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**rimhot* < 1257808653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is PG-13! sometimes. < 1257808709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I could do with some on-topic conversation, given that I've been teaching Java all < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* rizzuh is now known as [0]_1 < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[0]_1> YAY! < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mortimon: what is nonworking? < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : frickenate: maybe your platform doesn't really support getrusage < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[0]_1> []_, in your face #2! < 1257808710 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [0]_1 is now known as rizzuh < 1257808711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :day < 1257808712 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257808715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need decontamination < 1257808727 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257808727 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need to sleep soon < 1257808738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you no ethics? < 1257808743 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and teaching java. eww < 1257808783 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been coding Java a lot of the day. < 1257808802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, but you work for an enterprisey corporation and have no soul :P < 1257808805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, what happened to ? < 1257808806 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratehr verbose, and crap in some ways, but gives me a few new and interesting ways to think < 1257808810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the website is still there < 1257808816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the homepage seems to have gone mostly missing < 1257808817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: in much the same way as alcohol < 1257808835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257808846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, not ddsh editor, he really is slipping < 1257808850 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I work for a small company on an [Aa]gile team, but the company works for [redacted] who aren't too bright at times < 1257808877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, is it agile as in strict methodology agile? sweet, it's like meeting a cultist! < 1257808893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i guess cc (that's his initials right?) gave up on life and jumped off a bridge or something, gotta tie up those loose ends beforehandn < 1257808896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*beforehand < 1257808897 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, I would never have thought of testing C using mock functions had it not been for JAva < 1257808898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his server right? < 1257808900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clc < 1257808911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, claudio l. c.? < 1257808917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in CLaudio C. < 1257808929 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how Agile we are, but we try to do things in tiny steps < 1257808933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it moved < 1257808935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to http://clc.intercal.org.uk/ < 1257808941 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we do write unit tests < 1257808953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz is down, btw < 1257808961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1257808965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Your comment is subject to review, and will normally be included below: the review is simply to exclude unacceptable language (such as Java) < 1257808965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: both pages previously existed < 1257808966 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what we do is called bright people managed well < 1257808973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clc.intercal.org.uk is new since I last looked < 1257808979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, no idea < 1257808983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there was c.intercal.org.uk but not clc.intercal.org.uk) < 1257808990 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep droping hints about Scala, but nothing is changin yet < 1257808996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what a great description; "we are clever and we do things well" < 1257809000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1257809017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is http://overload.intercal.org.uk/favicon.png, anyway? < 1257809029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1257809045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wonder if c-intercal will work on my distro (probably) < 1257809055 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know marginally more about management than you do about processor design < 1257809062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: should do < 1257809063 0 :[]_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :{}_ < 1257809067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also — < 1257809068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[C-INTERCAL has long shipped with code to make it run better on Emacs; < 1257809068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is biased. This latest beta, therefore, includes support < 1257809068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for syntax-highlighting for vi, in the hope of redressing the balance.]] < 1257809068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a lie; vim is not vi < 1257809073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, it should work on anything < 1257809077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ouch, good catch < 1257809077 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257809080 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for this < 1257809083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emacs is close enough to a synonym as GNU Emacs, but vi is not vim by a long shot) < 1257809085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, the only solution is to patch vi so it works on that too < 1257809090 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that {}_ and []_ maps differently on hyperion < 1257809095 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but won't on their future ircd < 1257809096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making the statement technically correct < 1257809106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they did that it's called elvis :P < 1257809116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in that case the statement's technically correct already < 1257809119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I needn't worry < 1257809120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257809122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1257809130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elvis is The Other Extended Vi < 1257809134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't vim compatible or anything < 1257809137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's older than vim, IIRC < 1257809145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elvis is more minimal than vim, naturally) < 1257809150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is vim genetically vi? < 1257809152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no < 1257809162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim is kind of un-vilike < 1257809174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people who want a vi just ignore the vimmy parts because it's the most modern vi clone at its core < 1257809201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Don-t-1.01/t.pm was linked from reddit today, I'm hoping the syntax will horrify you sufficiently < 1257809212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm the sort of person who'd rather have a vim than a vi < 1257809213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, static binaries + a.out + tiny kernel with lots of things omitted and some uncommon choices + newlib + non-gcc compiler (probably pcc) < 1257809223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think C-INTERCAL would work? < 1257809233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if it doesn't, that's a bug < 1257809243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257809246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, if it doesn't work on a PDP-11, that's a bug < 1257809247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you think it will? I guess so < 1257809252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure how easy that would be to test < 1257809271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reason the most recent release was marked beta was that it hasn't been tested at all on anything but Linux) < 1257809273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdp-11 emulators are available, I believe < 1257809292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I went to a load of effort trying to make autotools act how it actually should act < 1257809295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than how it does ac < 1257809297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*act < 1257809298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I tried it on OS X at one point < 1257809299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reported on it < 1257809303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that portability effort has to go somwhere < 1257809312 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {}_: http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Don-t-1.01/t.pm was linked from reddit today, I'm hoping the syntax will horrify you sufficiently *looks* < 1257809331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that *looks* is very ambiguously attributed < 1257809337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't worry, making this distro will result in my becoming an expert at mangling autotools systetms < 1257809339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there is a real PDP-11 online somewhere < 1257809339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*systems < 1257809345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i will hate it < 1257809350 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it makes me laugh < 1257809350 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can toggle in your own bootloaders even < 1257809354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun, Perl doesn't exactly allow ' in identifiers, which might be your first reaction on seeing that < 1257809359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the code is still syntactically correct < 1257809388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub don't (&) {} < 1257809395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it distinguishable from not allowing them? < 1257809397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple source, yes < 1257809401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's namespacing < 1257809406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't is legacy syntax for don::t < 1257809421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the module itself is ACME::Don::t < 1257809422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1257809428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering why it was Don::t < 1257809435 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apostrophes are an ADAism aren't they? < 1257809439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1257809454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, Ada is very strongly one of the languages that INTERCAL isn't < 1257809457 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : more fun, Perl doesn't exactly allow ' in identifiers, which might be your first reaction on seeing that <-- it doesn't? didn't know < 1257809471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C-INTERCAL does funny stuff with the stack, doesn't it? < 1257809471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: seriously, how many languages allow ' in identifiers? < 1257809475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell < 1257809478 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257809481 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTH < 1257809484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special thanks go to Joris Huizer, Elliot Hird, Arvid Norlander, < 1257809484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU < 1257809486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALGOL-68 < 1257809487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1257809490 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erlang? using backslashes < 1257809499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really, it messes around with setjmp and longjmp but it's all in a strictly portable way < 1257809499 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like 'an\'atom' < 1257809500 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ? < 1257809508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or common lisp using < 1257809510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| < 1257809511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in |don't| < 1257809515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Two Ts two Ts two Ts! < 1257809520 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably scheme too? < 1257809523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257809528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme has a'b as a (quote b) < 1257809529 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm kay < 1257809536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what if you use vertical bars too? < 1257809550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: portable in theory yes, but in practice? < 1257809552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, I rewrote the elisp CGI script in Perl, to save my sanity < 1257809555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only took about an hour < 1257809563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the result wasn't a CGI script, it turned out that that bit was unnecessary < 1257809563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joey hess reported a C-INTERCAL bug? haha < 1257809573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he /was/ its maintainer < 1257809574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ages < 1257809578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never kne < 1257809580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/w/ < 1257809590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian maintainer, that is < 1257809594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he was downstream, I was upstream < 1257809596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257809607 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joey hess? < 1257809620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he's done quite a lot of things < 1257809626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's ironic that I only know him via INTERCAL < 1257809667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joey Hess is the main guy behind Debian-Installer, all-round Debian guy, Palm Pre hacker, creator of ikiwiki... < 1257809683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikiwiki probably being the most publicly visible of those < 1257809693 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh accomplished people envy envy envy < 1257809742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't call him exactly accomplished; he had a post on his blog recently about he pays for almost nothing by sheer luck iirc < 1257809746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be misremembering it slightly < 1257809754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, though, definitely < 1257809826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/nethack/ add another item: "nethack player" < 1257809876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a copy of his C-INTERCAL Debianisation git repo < 1257809879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent it being lost < 1257809942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that anyone at Debian's been particularly eager to unorphan the package... < 1257810034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll maintain a package for $distro_name! < 1257810040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257810190 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1257810493 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could call it that < 1257810496 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$distro_name < 1257810499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks not < 1257810499 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1257810503 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1257810508 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice < 1257810516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dns forbids me for naming a domain that. < 1257810520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1257810524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid standards. < 1257810538 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good point < 1257810804 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257811256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257811662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl;' < 1257811688 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1257811692 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257811703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: why ask a question that you know you won't be around to read the reply to? < 1257811721 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is log tomorrow *turns off screen* < 1257811736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. you fail at grammar 2. you don't logread < 1257811761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs exist, although I think it's a bit impolite to ask something and then say essentially "just write it down and I'll read it later". < 1257812303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except tomorrow he'll read the logs to see if I've answered and I won't have < 1257812321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT'S THAT BUDDHISTS? KARMA REFERS TO THE ACTION ITSELF WHICH IS ITS OWN PUNISHMENT? < 1257812326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG BITCHES < 1257812671 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257812722 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-71-163-207-43.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257812850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257813465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11 users — < 1257813471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever felt the need to middle click and drag? < 1257813601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess not < 1257813803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257814809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOST RIDICULOUS GENRE: Steamphunk < 1257814911 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257815061 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257815092 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257815097 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257816751 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257816918 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257817563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257817762 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257817784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rupert Murdoch has said he will try to block Google from using news content from his companies." < 1257817796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the internet has an abundance of perfectly good guns he could use to shoot himself in the foot < 1257817808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is he taking the scenic route? < 1257817835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("There's a doctrine called 'fair use', which we believe to be challenged in the courts and would bar it altogether," Mr Murdoch told the TV channel. "But we'll take that slowly.") < 1257817852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries as he installs Visual C++ 2008 Express
< 1257817900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,26182164-5014090,00.html < 1257817901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN YOURSELF, ANMASTER < 1257817903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so don't do it. < 1257817926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If g++ would work with the AW SDK on Windows, I wouldn't < 1257817942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably did something wrong. < 1257817946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1257817952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't figure out what < 1257817953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, most such picky old things are VC6 only. < 1257817956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess. < 1257817970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was developed in VC6 < 1257818007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes the old Logitech TrackMan Marble is PS/2, not serial
< 1257818017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a PS/2→USB adapter that should work, but no serial→anything adapter. < 1257819168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And.. it works in VC++2008Express < 1257819177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what I'm going to be using from now on < 1257819372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least for AW related stuff < 1257819483 0 :mad!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257820117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION accidentally put his bot in the sky
< 1257820123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y is altitude, not north/south < 1257820372 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257821148 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257822262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzy fizzly fizzie < 1257822386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program using the AW SDK: http://codepad.org/YonOAnaM < 1257823095 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257823292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, allman < 1257823308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, declarations not at the start of the function < 1257823318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck! also sleep time now < 1257823323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257823369 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257823369 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257823369 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257823370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257823370 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257823407 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257823472 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257823702 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257823711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allman? < 1257824329 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257824877 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257824877 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257825193 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257825909 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257828005 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257829543 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bill gates is so rich, he had to pay the bank to convert all their software to use 64-bit integers" < 1257829925 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257829930 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257830683 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257830790 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257831182 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257832667 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the banks use a decimal system for storing money amounts? < 1257833052 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, they probably did use binary coded decimal, dunno if they still do < 1257833832 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-85-252.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257834991 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257835123 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257835653 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257835781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257835839 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257835845 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257835886 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257836037 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-220.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257836448 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257836512 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257837474 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257837517 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-114.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257839436 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Except tomorrow he'll read the logs to see if I've answered and I won't have <-- indeed. < 1257839463 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. you fail at grammar 2. you don't logread <-- actually I do look for highlights. Apart from that I don't usually log read < 1257839476 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually don't* < 1257839999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257840000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257840102 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257840254 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257840468 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1257841674 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257843279 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257844066 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257844227 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257847423 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257848499 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257854805 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257857776 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257857939 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257860331 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257865078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257867004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257868815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257869077 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257870524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257871098 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257871147 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257871903 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257874155 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257874155 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257874275 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257874275 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257874293 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257874775 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257874776 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257874839 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1257875009 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257875557 0 :mtve!n=nnnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257875662 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257875668 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257876536 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257877004 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257877189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh no one has spoken for 10 hours < 1257877211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1257877224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually a few people have spoken on other channels < 1257877233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but thinking doesn't count < 1257877242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1257877245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context, oklopol, context < 1257877260 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going for 12 hours :( < 1257877264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context? < 1257877270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: MWAHAHA < 1257877277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this channel is the context < 1257877291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... how could i have known < 1257877299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: telepathy < 1257877311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we use when not speaking for hours < 1257877332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm beginning to see this fever as a good thing < 1257877360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes math much more interesting, because everything even slightly nontrivial requires like a two hour thinking session < 1257877372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257877392 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that not just mae you study math you already know?? < 1257877454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but he _thinks_ he doesn't know it < 1257877462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's still exciting < 1257877471 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swine fever! < 1257877474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1257877492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean by that "mae" thing < 1257877501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon burn < 1257877506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you meant "mean", but i mean by the the sentence < 1257877507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mae west, obviously < 1257877507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1257877552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought "make", actually, but "mean" makes more sense, although a more unlikely typo
< 1257877558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exercises aren't always easy even without a fever, i don't see how that'd mean i already know all the math < 1257877568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257877578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe make, let's see if i understand it then < 1257877612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "make"... you might mean if everything looks hard, i might accidentally start solving something i've already solved? < 1257877615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory is fine < 1257877626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i just solve what they give me < 1257877657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes i think i have swine fever < 1257877659 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was as motivated as you < 1257877705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i never get sick, i need a reason for being sick now. < 1257877750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have all the symptoms... but i'm not sure any of them actually separate it from the usual codenameless sicknesses < 1257877813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good source of motivation is the fear of not being the best < 1257877838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a great source of depression, i suppose < 1257877849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god my head hurts < 1257877855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually took medicine for it yesterday < 1257877875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i never do that) < 1257877913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drugs should only be used for their side-effects < 1257877922 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know you aren't and will never be best how do you get motivated anyway? < 1257877937 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /you/, I mean "one" < 1257878013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no anmaster :( < 1257878018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1257878024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find something you're the best at, you just need to be at the pareto frontier. < 1257878031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster? < 1257878035 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257878060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: D&D (especially the last annotation line :D) < 1257878089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take something you are the best at, and think of everything else as getting better at that artificial thing < 1257878103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a few of those i don't share with people < 1257878106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he's feeling symbolic, clearly < 1257878137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you understand my sentences? communication is hard < 1257878151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ordered pizza a few hours ago < 1257878156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it perfectly is to understand well may < 1257878159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the guy asked what the pin code for the house is < 1257878168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i told him the pin code for my credit card < 1257878172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not credit < 1257878175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that other card. < 1257878181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for money anyway < 1257878182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debet? < 1257878184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visa electron < 1257878215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i ordered the wrong pizza, said "mir", which is the name of the place, instead of the pizza i actually wanted to order < 1257878242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not my only mix-ups today, just during that phone call) < 1257878320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mir? russian pizza world? < 1257878337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not russian < 1257878387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mir has to be russian. it's probably secretly owned by russian mafia. thus further irony as mir also means "peace" < 1257878389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the owner is a stereotypical kebabian dude < 1257878409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it now < 1257878437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe it means something in turkish too. let me google... < 1257878458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "for me" in german < 1257878467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "me" in dative anyway < 1257878484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1257878488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that. < 1257878491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMME PIZZA < 1257878503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geben sie mir EINEN GROSSEN PIZZA < 1257878540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well kebab was invented by turkish germans, so... < 1257878566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257878601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh no one has spoken for 10 seconds < 1257878682 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and iwc < 1257878691 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice you join < 1257878705 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1257878710 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't see you in here then < 1257878718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i wasn't < 1257878876 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you weren't invisible‽‽‽ < 1257879035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that you can be invisible in a channel... < 1257879068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always +i, of course < 1257879219 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't know that you can be invisible in a channel... <-- you can? < 1257879240 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume {}_ is AnMaster, though I wonder why the nick? < 1257879260 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, apparently it was AnMaster < 1257879261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: reading comprehension fail < 1257879292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint, there is no missing comma < 1257879311 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it as "didn't" < 1257879314 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the issue < 1257879316 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, why not < 1257879337 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, dunno, it looks odd, that's why < 1257879340 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, why not < 1257879353 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you registered that nick while you're at it? < 1257879361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: look at the bright side, now he looks more swattable than you -----### < 1257879374 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that'll do < 1257879386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :###----, swatter channel? < 1257879409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's identified so it must be registered. or? < 1257879436 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he can sign in for AnMaster without grouping/registering the {}_ nickname < 1257879441 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm not sure, you may be right < 1257879469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but then how do we see whether he is registered with that nick... < 1257879480 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we can ask NickServ < 1257879503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :test135 < 1257879517 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:58:25] [PRIVMSG >>> NickServ]: info {}_ < 1257879517 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:58:26] NickServ [NickServ@services.]: Information on {}_ (account AnMaster): < 1257879521 0 :test135!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1257879522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like he grouped the nick < 1257879548 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes why? < 1257879554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i change nick, it says i'm signed on, but not that i'm identified < 1257879555 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, just wondering < 1257879591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/whois that is) < 1257879592 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay can someone say "AnMaster" < 1257879595 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess you're right, oerjan < 1257879598 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can see if the highlight works < 1257879602 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster!!1 < 1257879605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no way! < 1257879606 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah no < 1257879613 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again? < 1257879618 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster aeou < 1257879622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not a chance < 1257879625 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1257879636 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has to read manual instead of guess for a likely settings
< 1257879638 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting* < 1257879705 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, again? < 1257879710 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster aeou < 1257879712 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1257879744 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it case insensitive? whataboutanmasterthis? < 1257879834 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insine works doesn't work < 1257879836 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check case < 1257879945 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257880111 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words* < 1257880185 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257880191 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1257880193 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: a standard argument for it, it is just a " grass is greener on the other hand, often include highly analyzing optimizing compilers and highly optimized run-time systems. < 1257880203 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, style < 1257880204 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: then there's the new eso website < 1257880209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1257880210 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1257880227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grass is greener on the other hand", a nice combino-idiom. < 1257880289 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257880339 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257880339 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the last part is verbitime I assume? < 1257880348 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"often include highly analyzing optimizing compilers and highly optimized run-time systems." < 1257880350 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1257880350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely, yes. < 1257880357 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from what channel? < 1257880364 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 btw < 1257880436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: [2004-05-15 23:58:45] < Riastradh> Erlang as a language is not designed for intense computation. SML systems, on the other hand, often include highly analyzing & optimizing compilers and highly optimized run-time systems. < 1257880442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: Freenode's #scheme. < 1257880446 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257880474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The & got completely stripped out during some phase. < 1257880555 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B135FD0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257881023 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257881028 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257881089 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257881811 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257881826 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B135FD0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257882146 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257882602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: I find your name impossible to mentally pronounce < 1257882733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: I find your name impossible to parse in Tcl syntax. < 1257882738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You will have to refer to him as "the artist formerly known as AnMaster". < 1257882751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1257882756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and lol) < 1257884957 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, great! < 1257884965 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {}_: I find your name impossible to parse in Tcl syntax. <-- wow < 1257884976 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? < 1257884978 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why artist? < 1257884991 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses it was a monty python reference
< 1257885019 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would []_ be better? < 1257885025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257885029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, possibly < 1257885032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not by enough to matter < 1257885053 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you call a { in english now again, slipped my mind < 1257885063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brace, or possibly curly bracket < 1257885070 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"klammer-bracket" just seems so Swinglish < 1257885084 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swedish + English, maybe Swenglish?) < 1257885118 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so my name is: "opening curly bracket closing curly bracket underscore" < 1257885128 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that impossible to pronounce? < 1257885134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: takes too long < 1257885138 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257885183 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't my fault [] {} [ ] { } are all taken < 1257885224 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* |||| :Erroneous Nickname < 1257885225 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257885229 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense < 1257885436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :a|b < 1257885443 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is allowed < 1257885443 0 :a|b!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :|aha| < 1257885452 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why isn't four of them < 1257885458 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ||| is registered < 1257885461 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for || and | < 1257885478 0 :|aha|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1257885590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: It was a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_%28musician%29 -- see the "also known as" entry in the infobox, and the first paragraph of the actual article. < 1257885638 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but isn't that one a monty python reference? < 1257885645 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257885646 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm completely mistaken < 1257885680 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The knights formerly known as The Knights of Ni" or something like that (modulo exact phrase) < 1257885831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: No. According to Wikipedia, they were "The Knights Who 'Til Recently Said Ni", which is a bit different; but in the 2004 musical Spamalot, they've been renamed to "The artists formerly known as the Knights who say Ni" as a reference to Prince. < 1257885864 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1257885869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you could speculate that the "formerly known" thing was a reference to the "'til recently" bit of Holy Grail, but that's not completely obvious, at least. < 1257885902 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh < 1257886418 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :{0} < 1257886418 0 :{0}!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from syn. < 1257886429 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257886538 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. They're still having trouble with that... "Nick collision from syn." < 1257886575 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting topic in here < 1257886587 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh, the one being discussed, not the one of the channel < 1257886608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about that. And {0}_ was reported erroneous < 1257886676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :{}_ < 1257886828 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257886830 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257887004 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw isn't my nick valid C with the right #define? < 1257887006 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not alone < 1257887008 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1257887052 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: #define _ /*NOOP*/\nwhile 0 {}_ < 1257887066 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inside some function) < 1257887254 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257887365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int _; while (--_) {}_ ++; < 1257887377 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice!! < 1257887409 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257887548 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1257887561 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no define even < 1257887588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astute. < 1257887716 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, don't be sarcastic. I was being impressed of that idea. < 1257887734 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find the English word for "beröm"
< 1257887736 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at FireFly
< 1257887745 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1257887760 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :praise? < 1257887797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acclaim! < 1257887853 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :praise would be better in this case yeah < 1257888128 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is my nick with intercal char names now again? < 1257888142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, { and } aren't used in INTERCAL < 1257888145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _ is a worm < 1257888155 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257888161 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about [] ? < 1257888164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are { and } even /in/ EBCDIC) < 1257888169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [ is a u-turn, I think < 1257888172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ] being a u-turn-back < 1257888433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Funge-98 your nick's the rather unwieldy "begin block end block east-west if" < 1257888521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]_ would be three conditionals in a row < 1257888525 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah. < 1257888532 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1257888534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... or rather, not, because there's be no way to flow through all three in a row < 1257888545 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ] and [ are turn in befunge < 1257888546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc, [ and ] just turn unconditonally < 1257888565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was muddled with Sansism's G < 1257888599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"turn left turn right east-west if" < 1257888617 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257888649 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the nick \hphantom{} but decides against it
< 1257888659 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyone else should feel free to register it) < 1257888678 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could do other short latex code snippets as well) < 1257889785 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257890023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hello, fingerprint-defined D push 14 push 14 compare input file push 10 clear stack split. < 1257890083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good day to you too, push 15 input file no operation no operation input file push 14! < 1257890122 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The GeForce 200 Series is the tenth generation of NVIDIA's GeForce graphics processing units. The series also represents the continuation of the company's unified shader architecture introduced with the GeForce 8 Series and the GeForce 9 Series." < 1257890124 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257890137 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200? < 1257890145 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that lower than 6000 even < 1257890150 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails to see the logic
< 1257890157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me a bit of the A.I. name-pronouncing convetion of Schlock Mercenary; explained in the note of http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20060419.html < 1257890206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are best treated as meaningless symbols instead of, you know, numbers. < 1257890222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly "200" is a lot more than "8" or "9" (since they're called "series 8" and "series 9"). < 1257890325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess you could argue the new series should be called the "GeForce 0.2 series" then. < 1257890328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257890362 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could. But it would be pointless < 1257890368 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is no reason to it < 1257890382 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no series 100? < 1257891439 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257891465 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257892040 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257892646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: IIRC, there is a "series 100", but it was some sort of OEM-only "pretty much geforce 9 with a new name" budget thing. < 1257892701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_120_us.html "OEM Product", "Not available for individual purchase". < 1257893311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes, there is an IMPERFECTION in the holy Wikipedia. (Someone has moved -- on Nov 1 -- the GeForce 100 series table from "GeForce 200 Series" into "GeForce 9 Series", without fixing the "GeForce 100 Series" => "GeForce 200 Series#OEM GeForce 100" redirect. I'd fix it myself, but there's a messy "no, they belong to this article" paragraph in the 200-series talk page, and I don't know how these Wiki-things go.) < 1257893790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 is an annoing number < 1257893815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: An anointed number. < 1257893937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just saw that in the other direction in buffy the vampire slayer < 1257893945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this anointed one < 1257893953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spike called him the annoying one and killed him < 1257893966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spike is pretty tough) < 1257894003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. anoint -- (choose by or as if by divine intervention; "She was anointed the head of the Christian fundamentalist group") < 1257894012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funky "as if by" variant there. < 1257894175 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257894179 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not that funky < 1257894462 0 :Badger!i=badger@uncyclopedia/badger JOIN :#esoteric < 1257894477 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUSHROOM MUSHROOM < 1257894515 0 :M_Budgie!i=b45f100d@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxwdrgsuyfupaoji JOIN :#esoteric < 1257894545 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257894587 0 :M_Budgie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257894768 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257894854 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257894893 0 :M_Budgie!i=b45f100d@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxwdrgsuyfupaoji JOIN :#esoteric < 1257894969 0 :M_Budgie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there's a language made entirely out of pokemon references? < 1257895117 0 :M_Budgie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1257895285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257897004 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257897067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone try Go? < 1257897156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go is go is go is go is go is go is go is go is go is go is go is go is MUSHROOM MUSHROOM. < 1257897182 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I used to play < 1257897190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the language < 1257897271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257897387 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Go < 1257897527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many ways to initialize a variable? (Just reading through the tutorial now) < 1257897604 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257897621 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257897622 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1257897649 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1257897791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's semantics stuff, but did they really need to make the syntax this unfamiliar? < 1257898031 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257898093 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1257898641 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257898727 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.233.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257898753 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257899093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long should it really take to calculate the total cost of free items?? < 1257899120 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257899152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 0? < 1257899224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd you get it so fast? I mean, if Microsoft-created software takes a while, how can a person possibly figure it out so quickly? < 1257899257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total cost of free items should be 0 < 1257899263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as they're free, they don't cost anything < 1257899266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1257899266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257899269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding loads of 0s makes 0 < 1257899278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that Zune was taking a few seconds to "Calculate total" < 1257899795 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257899800 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257900671 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1257900677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be here! < 1257900678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257901630 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257901634 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257902669 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between random and algorithmic? < 1257902681 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can generate primes with an algorithm < 1257903973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random numbers are uncomputable. Algorithmic results are computable. < 1257904573 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prime numbers definitely have some randomnesses. < 1257904587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their distribution is random. < 1257904594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(insofar as we are aware) < 1257904615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of prime numbers is not at all random, however. < 1257904620 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "their distribution" mean? < 1257904634 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/randomnesses/non-randomnesses/ < 1257904699 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257905890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insofar as we are aware, there is no pattern to the prime numbers. (if you find such a pattern, you win some major prizes and break most encryption) < 1257906050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257906086 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257907269 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257907769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All prime numbers greater than 3 can be expressed as either 6n+1 or 6n-1, where n is an integer < 1257907779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pattern! < 1257907787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are my prizes? < 1257908317 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All prime numbers are divisible by at least two smaller primes < 1257908392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, what? < 1257909031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: prove it < 1257909082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized it a long time ago, and recently saw it someplace else < 1257909085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me work it out again < 1257909093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless I'm thinking of prime pairs) < 1257909154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ 1 / / / 5 < 1257909155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1257909185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say these represent any 6 continuous integers, starting with one divisible by 6: < 1257909188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 2 3 4 5 < 1257909207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 and 4 are divisible by 2 < 1257909217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and 0 < 1257909226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have / 1 / 3 / 5 < 1257909232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where / is effectively crossed out) < 1257909245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3 is divisible by 3 < 1257909250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So / 1 / / / 5 < 1257909259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dingdingding < 1257909322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1257909328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it, well done, etc < 1257909336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Wanted to be sure < 1257909373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty, I guess < 1257909558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to do an old CCC
< 1257909706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION must remain sharp!
< 1257911916 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257913070 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-113-22.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257914108 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257917645 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257917776 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257917781 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257917787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257923647 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257923647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257923647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257923647 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257923648 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257923735 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257923737 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257923744 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257923745 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257923770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257923923 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257924543 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257925008 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257925072 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257926399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257926400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257926765 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257926800 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257926916 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257930842 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257933739 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257936850 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257936862 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-113-22.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257938503 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257939663 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257944866 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257947083 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B13417C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257950024 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1257950264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257950456 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257951259 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257951341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1257953380 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257954343 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257954725 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257955358 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257955550 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257955687 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257955841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:09 Does anyone know if there's a language made entirely out of pokemon references? < 1257955845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18:37 --- quit: M_Budgie ("Page closed") < 1257955861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impatient guy... and didn't Zzo38 make one? < 1257955885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PokeArena, IIRC < 1257955947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right, doesn't seem to be Zzo < 1257955956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also not very fleshed out < 1257955964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257956019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257956036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38's a big pocket monsters IRC fan < 1257956075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and General Assembler (by Zzo38 and used for a pokemon game, but not itself pokemon based) are the only pokemon mentions on the wiki < 1257956093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Generalized < 1257956226 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257956324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How'd you get it so fast? I mean, if Microsoft-created software takes a while, how can a person possibly figure it out so quickly? < 1257956354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh everyone knows microsoft software is commercial, and thus optimized for non-free items < 1257956363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257956516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a lot of upgrades < 1257956541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new kernel, X, and most of the bootup sequence < 1257956546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Insofar as we are aware, there is no pattern to the prime numbers. (if you find such a pattern, you win some major prizes and break most encryption) < 1257956584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of patterns, they just don't describe exactly what is a prime or not, or else they are too complicated to be useful < 1257956627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm also not sure how a simple pattern for primes would help much with factorization (i.e. encryption breaking) < 1257956663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is somewhat because the concept of pattern is wishy-washy < 1257956699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a pattern < 1257956856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notices today there _was_ a 12 hour break without anyone speaking in the channel, just before he arrived. fax must be pleased.
< 1257956878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, new GTK as well < 1257956883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's a lot of major changes < 1257957131 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"be right back" < 1257957285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257957347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}_: iwc < 1257957383 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true < 1257957465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primes have a pattern by definition < 1257957468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a pattern < 1257957477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a pattern < 1257957484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom's a pattern. < 1257957496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well that's what i meant by wishy-washy < 1257957516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257957523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define it too broadly, anything you can define uniquely at all becomes a pattern < 1257957561 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257957697 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257957963 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257958912 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-138.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257959347 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257960049 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257960138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh < 1257960167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only does the documentation for this evaulation board not actually specify the pinouts to access the peripherals (one of the most basic pieces of information, and one that can't be guessed without a huge amount of brute force) < 1257960198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a set of examples (which I think are binary only), and for the web server tests, the IP is hardcoded to 1.2.3.9 (on network 1.0.0.0/16) < 1257960220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they not using one of the ranges that is actually available for local networks? < 1257960440 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257961004 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257961085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because it might conflict with someone's actual local network, while you can cheerfully reuse 1.0.0.0/16 because no-one has any sensible reason to want to connect there, since it's IANA-reserved. < 1257961170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not such a great reason, but *a* reason none-the-less. < 1257961244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people may want to connect there once 1.0.0.0/16 is allocated < 1257961252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it isn't reserved for any reason but that it hasn't been allocated yet < 1257961301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're talking about the FUTURE. Now, in the FUTURE we might all be DEAD anyway, so why worry about it? < 1257961384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you parodying? < 1257961395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just myself, I think. < 1257961416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they could've used some random numbers from 169.254.0.0/16 though; those are reserved for link-local auto-random-config-style addresses. < 1257961446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what Windows boxes pick when they've been configured to use DHCP but no DHCP server is found. < 1257961549 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257961636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also 192.0.2.0/24 "assigned as "TEST-NET" for use in documentation and example code", but maybe conceptually speaking that shouldn't be used "for real". Oh, and 198.18.0.0/15 is specifically allocated (RFC2544) for "benchmark tests of network interconnect devices"; that could well be abused for web-server testing. < 1257961645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1257962233 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257962380 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257962436 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257962792 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257963414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*achoo* < 1257963430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's really swine flu this time... < 1257963453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise, my third cold this autumn) < 1257963489 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, third only? < 1257963516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean i should have had _more_? < 1257964977 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257965110 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a goddamn motherfucking fly in here < 1257965113 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-82.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257965512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You mean there's a goddamn motherfucking small flying snack in here. < 1257965538 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-18.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257965735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers making an anosmia joke about Gregor and flies, but then realizes he hasn't exactly tasted flies himself either
< 1257965757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're full of proteiny goodness. < 1257965765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, food --> < 1257965973 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257965979 0 :sebbu4!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-60-190.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257966013 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257966015 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1257966057 0 :sebbu4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1257966067 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257966490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257966490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257966491 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257966491 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257966929 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257966945 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257968303 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:55:35] oerjan considers making an anosmia joke about Gregor and flies, but then realizes he hasn't exactly tasted flies himself either < 1257968313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do you insist in swatting them? < 1257968373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic control. < 1257968512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257968516 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in the world < 1257968518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kids < 1257968518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257968572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since i could pass for a kid < 1257968797 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a negative while since I could < 1257968851 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257968862 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@61.69.0.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257968936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257969200 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257969247 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257969274 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257969303 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest19337 < 1257970531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257971482 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257971487 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257972068 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257973204 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257973402 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257973442 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257973455 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257974079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have never tasted a fly? < 1257974268 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257974405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bee? ant? < 1257974419 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257974429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're weird < 1257974431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cow? < 1257974445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of those, I've tasted cow and ant < 1257974482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the finnish ones i only like the big red and blue ones, whatever they are called < 1257974490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue? < 1257974491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black i meant < 1257974494 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257974542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257974553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tasted only one variety of ant. :-P < 1257974686 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257978158 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257978343 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257978730 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257978734 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257978895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1257979175 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257980038 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-113-22.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257982695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257982719 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1257982993 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257984154 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257984682 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257984872 0 :boily!n=boily@poste211-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257985017 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257985507 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-103.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257985543 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257985548 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1257986598 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257987121 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257987327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1257989195 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257990308 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257990364 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257990373 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257992610 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257993857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257994642 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257995300 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257996086 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257997051 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257997707 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1257998843 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257998873 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the only place I can find the Funge '97 spec is here: < 1257998874 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20000903032408/www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/f97.html < 1257998915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of all his files, only the mtfi121x.zip one is mirrored (8086 DOS version of his Funge '93/'96/'97 interpreter) < 1257998927 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also compiles with DJGPP, so Linux etc. should work too < 1257998971 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I'm annoyed that one '93 example I wrote apparently doesn't work correctly in '98 (CCBI or FBBI) < 1257999011 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the whole "look for blank space and reflect back assuming its end of funge space" doesn't take account of string mode very well < 1257999023 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I consider that a bug < 1257999037 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257999090 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more annoying in that CCBI has no true '93 mode although FBBI and MTFI both have one) < 1257999100 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, whatever < 1257999476 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1257999748 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257999856 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1257999926 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gxis revido" < 1258000276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258002202 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258004965 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-93-42.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258006408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258010108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Bing has decided to suck more: results to come from W|A. < 1258012799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258012800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258013446 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258013452 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258015034 0 :{}_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258015238 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1258015556 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258020231 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258021043 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258022400 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258026320 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258026471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : apparently the whole "look for blank space and reflect back assuming its end of funge space" doesn't take account of string mode very well < 1258026590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well once you decide not to have a fixed fungespace size, it is hard to treat one end-of-funge-space space differently from another < 1258026859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you introduced a "nothing there" character, but that could lead to some awful debugging since most editors show that identical to space by default... < 1258026870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*identically < 1258027410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc < 1258027553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funkiest thing evar: http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html (shamelessly stolen from another #channel). < 1258027569 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258027587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to work so terribly well, but I like the idea of it. < 1258027657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also D&D. they're going to be _so_ happy when the real GM gets back :D < 1258030025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258030032 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258030208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258032152 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258036422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1258036427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258039289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where is ehird when you need him < 1258039314 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-79-2.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258040575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what on earth "italic correction" is in TeX.
< 1258040592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting a warning about it from chktex < 1258042599 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258042604 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258042746 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258042891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258043594 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258049432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's the small bit of spacing you need when you have an italic glyph followed by a roman glyph. < 1258049779 0 :FireFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258050054 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258050071 0 :FireyFly[DS]!n=nds@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258050090 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1258050101 0 :FireyFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly[DS] < 1258050165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well. It is followed by a space. So I'm not sure if this even makes sense < 1258050170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258050192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, wouldn't LyX handle that automatically hm < 1258050255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to be after an \emph{foo} < 1258050396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\emph is often in italics. I wouldn't know about automatics; you can add a manual "\/" command inside the emph to maybe placate chktex, though I'm not sure if that works. < 1258050951 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258051174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't actually look bad though. And strangely enough chktex never warned before when I used \emph (and yes it produced italics then too) < 1258051276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you have something immediately after the \emph{} with no spacing? Since that's usually when it is needed. < 1258051300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It" referring to the extra spacing. < 1258051370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive decided that just as there is Occams Razor < 1258051378 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a corollary < 1258051381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augurs Razor < 1258051383 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says < 1258051413 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given two equally adequate and equally simple theories, the one that is weirdest is best < 1258051464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a problem with all letters; and there might even be some automatics nowadays, since the reasonably worst-case "\emph{f}k" and "\textit{f}k" render just fine here with a noticeable gap there. < 1258051540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But! The raw-TeX "{\it f}k" doesn't render well at all. Strange that chktex would complain about the working variants, though. < 1258051936 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258052127 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ClIRC - IRC client for Nintendo DS" < 1258052166 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258052596 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258053387 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258053391 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258053879 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B1340BB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258054695 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258054822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : given two equally adequate and equally simple theories, the one that is weirdest is best < 1258054920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd assume that's implied in the famous bohr quote: "We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." < 1258055155 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258055770 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258055824 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258055917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc. but read it without being connected to bouncer < 1258055922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I count as not here < 1258055945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so I can just say iwc when you are not here and it will count too! < 1258055971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i already did say iwc when you were apparently not here < 1258055991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes that is the point. I always wait until you are here < 1258056030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason to continue doing so < 1258056051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always try to check if you are idle, but maybe 3 hours was a bit too large < 1258056074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, 3 hours due to client loosing connection and auto-reconnecting even < 1258056082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real idle time was closer to 12 hours < 1258056089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258056112 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258056139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could easily have seen that in logs. That I reconnected about 3 hours before that, that is. < 1258056152 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258056155 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well once you decide not to have a fixed fungespace size, it is hard to treat one end-of-funge-space space differently from another < 1258056155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true. i didn't think of that. < 1258056168 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it should know when string mode begins and ends, though, right?? < 1258056185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wouldn't be exactly, client would spend a few minutes after reconnect rejoining channels (due to being in so many here on freenode) < 1258056191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i was assuming you were talking about a string mode wrapping around the end? < 1258056197 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258056212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what are you doing in before? < 1258056216 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he had a small paste-able example ...
< 1258056218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm then i don't understand < 1258056234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, some fungoid? < 1258056256 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about Befunge98 not accepting Befunge93 correctly < 1258056272 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whitespace inside quotes " x " (string mode) is confusing it < 1258056276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, uh well yeah it isn't completely compatible. It is well known. The SGM spaces for example < 1258056283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGML* < 1258056289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sounds like SGML space rule < 1258056292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see spec < 1258056313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html#Strings < 1258056314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific < 1258056343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, further, if a befunge93 program depends on something like x just reflecting it won't work in 98 eithger < 1258056345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either* < 1258056369 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,,,,@ < 1258056377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for SGML spaces is probably due to it wrapping < 1258056393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh then that is something i didn't know about. < 1258056413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 isn't identical to 93 < 1258056415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what exactly do you expect that to do? I expect it to print (C string notation here): " x \0\0" < 1258056427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two spaces on each side < 1258056435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, did you read the link above? < 1258056436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple spaces count as one space in 98 < 1258056438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, do it < 1258056439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1258056441 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm not really familiar with Befunge98 (kinda confusing, honestly) < 1258056443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will explain it < 1258056446 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading it now < 1258056454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, because otherwise you'd get a near-infinite number of spaces if a string wrapped < 1258056463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "near"? < 1258056469 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the string doesn't wrap, just has some whitespace in it < 1258056472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least in efunge you would get infinite < 1258056482 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess since it could in theory ... < 1258056486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: arguably, you'd get 2^32 for a 32-bit funge < 1258056501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but efunge is bignum < 1258056526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would get infinite in theory (of course in practise it would run out of memory before that) < 1258056544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes it applies to all strings < 1258056561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is string wrapping really that useful or common?? < 1258056574 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, silly question, but still ... ;-) < 1258056586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I have done it I'm pretty sure. Can't remember when though < 1258056597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably when something didn't fit < 1258056607 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean in 93 or 98? < 1258056609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I'm quite sure that mycology tests it. < 1258056612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in 98 of course < 1258056618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't code in 93 at all < 1258056619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how didn't it fit? < 1258056641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if 98 isn't limited like 93, then why need to wrap strings? < 1258056661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, didn't fit due to surrounding code. I try to code compact < 1258056696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and even when not wrapping it is useful < 1258056711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you need code to cross, but don't have the space for a # in that direction < 1258056725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there a space one space off, and you can extend that line a bit < 1258056731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you have the solution < 1258056749 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still wonders what Befunge98 examples exist ...
< 1258056751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative would be to rewrite parts of the code of course < 1258056769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it is more for writing application programs in? Large programs I mean < 1258056772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258056773 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some would say "rewrite rewrite rewrite ..." < 1258056788 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I have never seen anything about Befunge '96 or '97 < 1258056804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late last night I posted a (WayBack) link to the '97 spec, though (Ben Olmstead's old page) < 1258056814 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. o for nop (instead of z as in 98) < 1258056819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I would prefer "keep patching, until it looks so improbable and messy that not even the original author can read it" < 1258056819 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda weird < 1258056839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BTW, I have never seen anything about Befunge '96 or '97 <-- I have seen a few recovered snippets < 1258056848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he may have some stuff around somewhere
< 1258056852 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I saw *one* example program in '97 (GPL, too, heh) < 1258056862 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258056886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ben's MTFI ran on Linux or DOS (16-bit or 32-bit) < 1258056887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes there it is < 1258056894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he included no examples < 1258056896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, an 1.9 MB mailing list dump < 1258056898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interested? < 1258056903 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... < 1258056907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it conains 97 stuff < 1258056912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec drafts and such < 1258056913 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, why not? :-) < 1258056935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the spec (from WayBack), just no examples (besides that one signature that draws an ellipse) < 1258056938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omploaded 'bef_maillist_0_520.txt' to http://omploader.org/vMnI2dg < 1258056939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1258056943 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks ;-) < 1258056954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also you meant 96 not 98 right? < 1258056964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, link to the spec? < 1258056980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, apparently there was a '96 too < 1258056985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea where '96 spec is < 1258056989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, never heard of 98 < 1258056996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I meant to 97 < 1258057026 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Pressey's latest site doesn't have it, so that doesn't help < 1258057027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20000903032408/www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/f97.html < 1258057075 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the only '97 example I know of: http://www.bedroomlan.org/hacks/signature-befunge < 1258057077 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/TOYS.html does mention it though. < 1258057143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... barely < 1258057149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, contact that person and ask for what interpreter he used? < 1258057170 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, MTFI works, he probably used that < 1258057199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTFI? < 1258057221 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, here's '96 spec (I think): http://web.archive.org/web/20001008142309/www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/96.html < 1258057234 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, MTFI is the '93 / '96 / '97 interpreter for Linux and DOS by Ben Olmstead < 1258057328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the WayBack link to the 8086 version still works, but the source is included, also compiles under DJGPP, so it should work on Linux too (since he had an explicit "Unix" port too) < 1258057332 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20000831062334/http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/mtfi121x.zip < 1258057347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258057367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, the Unix link works on this version of the page! < 1258057369 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20000831062334/http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/mtfi-1.21.tar.gz < 1258057379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "crap" < 1258057380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258057380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad no MCBC :-( < 1258057386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCBC? < 1258057387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap as in "wow, oops, surprise" < 1258057394 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCBC = 386 NASM Befunge compiler < 1258057398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, as for 98 "examples"? what exactly do you mean by that? < 1258057405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1258057405 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1258057411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you have one? < 1258057432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, or not happy with that? < 1258057439 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the IRC bot? < 1258057442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes < 1258057448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, that counts ;-) < 1258057452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that is the code for fungot itself < 1258057452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i was just wondering if any current scheme system today. more details, pls. < 1258057459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just thought '98 seemed overrated for something no one codes in ...
< 1258057460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there is mycology too. As you probably know < 1258057484 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but a test suite doesn't do much of anything (no offense), I wanted something interesting ;-) < 1258057494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, people do code in it. Just generally it is complex stuff compared to 93 ones. Thus it isn't really "examples" but "applications" < 1258057538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway that code file won't work on it's own. It uses a bootloader. Which sets up nick, server and such, then loads the main file < 1258057540 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I just never saw many (well, any) < 1258057553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot-load-freenode.b98 < 1258057554 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the big difference is in the source fnord it isn't in the index. once this is false, another is a sgi indy ( mips, running irix) and a < 1258057558 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258057564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1258057564 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1258057574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1258057574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1258057575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you weren't aware of it being in befunge? < 1258057578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1258057589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I doubt what you spam will look much different from the original, here < 1258057589 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wie alle auf einmal opern singen wollen... dreck. who really knows aviation will tell you something, it's dark blond < 1258057598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258057604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I probably fun^H^H^Hforgot < 1258057626 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what no fjords? < 1258057627 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: lol that was really funny, holding up random stuff made of gold. like time magazine, airliners dot net and at wikipedia? i dont remember seeing any angels in the spotlight, and didn't react fast enough to pull up < 1258057635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what? < 1258057642 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, fnord yourself < 1258057643 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ok, farinelli... i got the hell < 1258057652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ... < 1258057652 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: agreed, i know the song? :p), there is terror and pain caused by pilot error, didn't know that you've been to france. < 1258057673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arliners running on .NET code sounds scary < 1258057677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :airliners* < 1258057716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, why so much about aviation? < 1258057716 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: she makes me jizz in my pants. from reading these 488 hideous comments, heres the conclusion of all the spectators. i liked the scottish budweiser commercial the best < 1258057727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1258057766 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :airliners on .NET? they do have British nuclear subs running Windows though (supposedly) < 1258057866 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258057954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting (from the 97 spec): < 1258057955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a more ideal universe, ~ may suspend only it's own the thread. Suspending the entire program is the usual and entirely forgivable real behaviour. < 1258057956 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258058070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest version of Ben's copy of the '96 spec is here: < 1258058078 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure if it differs from what I listed before) < 1258058080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20040221081031/www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/96.html < 1258058110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1258058114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say diff < 1258058126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- < 1258058126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-

Befunge-96

< 1258058126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+

Befunge-96

< 1258058128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1258058130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1258058379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Good finds, by the way. I've spent many a time looking for those without success. < 1258058522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you wrap in stringmode, the result is undefined." -- MTFI's "notes" file < 1258058718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's ever been true as far as the spec is concerned. It may have made sense in '96, with a bigger playfield but without SGML spaces, and the poor 16-bit implementations. < 1258058765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly so < 1258058799 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, MTFI "Unix" and "8086" both seem identical except for makefiles and readmes < 1258058846 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't say for sure, but I'd bet it's GPL because he uses GNU's getopt_long < 1258058888 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmmm, actually that part is LGPL here, but if you get it from BinUtils, for example, it's GPL) < 1258058906 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, a case of the viral GPL < 1258058915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BSD has its own getopt_long these days < 1258058962 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, what's the deal with MS being braindead about writing temporary files to C:\ < 1258058985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 8086 MS C .EXE tries doing it (forbidden under Vista default user account), MSVCRT tries doing it, etc. < 1258058988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... annoying < 1258059034 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think they'd test their own stuff, but obviously not as well as we'd like! < 1258059044 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rant off) < 1258059341 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reading '96 mailing list dump
< 1258060196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, uh. not allowing writing temp files in c:\ seems pretty sane < 1258060211 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they could virtualize it (but don't) < 1258060218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why should they? < 1258060222 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then things would break silently < 1258060230 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MS C and MSVCRT.DLL are the ones that expect to be able to do so !!!! < 1258060240 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you ask Raymond Chen? That is his kind of question < 1258060242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no fucking sense to allow that outside some sort of /tmp or ~/tmp < 1258060246 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't even workaround their own bugs! (argh) < 1258060246 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might alreadhave covered it < 1258060248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not those obviously < 1258060255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but equivalents < 1258060262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, is it a bug? < 1258060277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSVCRT.DLL 's tmpfile() assumes C:\ is writable < 1258060280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because MS C and MSVCRT.DLL are the ones that expect to be able to do so !!!! <-- MSVCRT what version? < 1258060290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80? 90? < 1258060296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think from MSVC 6, the one MinGW usees < 1258060298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uses < 1258060305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well that's outdated as hell afaik < 1258060315 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but MinGW still uses it, so blame them not me :-P < 1258060562 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258060566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well lets put it another way: I don't care a "shit" about windows breaking or not breaking. < 1258060574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that is not true < 1258060588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer windows to fail, rather than work < 1258060613 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just sad when something works worse than before instead of better ... that's all < 1258060616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are way better operating systems out there. and yes I did try windows7 < 1258060637 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many OSes, languages, cpus, etc. < 1258060644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sadly, this one isn't likely to affect the majority of windows users. Would have been a lot better if it did < 1258060645 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one-size-fits-all < 1258060675 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wouldn't matter then either, Windows bugfixing isn't a democracy, meritocracy, or anything more than "random" < 1258060685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mac OS X for those who just want stuff to work. Linux for those that want free software or being able to easily modify major parts of the system < 1258060689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd too there < 1258060723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least OS X has a decent shell < 1258060732 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258060750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash, you mean? < 1258060830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes. cmd.exe is just unusable for anything serious. And windows "powershell" seems like a joke. < 1258060846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure powershell can do more, but it seemed rather awkward to me. < 1258060862 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total Command? (TCC) < 1258060876 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powershell isn't even included in Vista by default (despite all the hype) < 1258060887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it in 7 iirc? < 1258060891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X used to include tcsh until 10.2 or so < 1258060896 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in 7, from what I heard < 1258060904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I'm aware of os x used to use tcsh < 1258060906 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't feel 7 was worth upgrading to
< 1258060907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of that* < 1258060931 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not for $119, ugh < 1258060938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of TCC. Does it allow the wide flexibility of the shell on a *nix system? With the huge number of programs that you can use to do lots of things < 1258060965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure exactly how to classify it as I've never used it, but it's by the guy who made 4DOS and 4NT < 1258060968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you just use that instead of the GUI? < 1258060974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux that would be feasible < 1258060981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I administrated lots of server over ssh < 1258060985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no X < 1258060998 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't remove the GUI from Windows (that I know of, anyways) < 1258061011 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinWin was just a tech demo, I think < 1258061025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well, I didn't require that. I just required it to not require you to use the GUI ever < 1258061049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCC? well, it is a GUI app I think (with tabs, etc.), but console-ish < 1258061054 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure, never used it < 1258061055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1258061057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least TCC/LE is free < 1258061064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ware < 1258061073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so completely irrelevant then to my question? < 1258061111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that with *nix you can use the GUI but don't *need* it. On windows so far it seems you will need it for some things < 1258061112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, not Total Command but Take Command < 1258061128 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jpsoft.com/tccledes.htm < 1258061143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"formerly known as 4NT" ... okay < 1258061201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, seems pretty crippled except in the high end (non-freeware) versions < 1258061208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Well, Windows Server does at least offer a very barebones install. < 1258061210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, just saying, it's better than CMD at least < 1258061233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kinda *has* a GUI, but it only has cmd.exe running in it. < 1258061254 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated two days ago, too < 1258061255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity they've not made it without the GUI, though. < 1258061259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how usable is it to administrate it from there? < 1258061281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Decently usable, actually -- the Microsoft server programs, at least, got CLIs. < 1258061301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay. But that is cmd.exe you are talking about < 1258061307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a bit nicer if they had a better shell, though. < 1258061315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could, say, use Mingw bash) < 1258061327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how would you do stuff like loop over all files in the current directory, executing some command < 1258061333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like: < 1258061369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most sanely? Probably a .bat file. < 1258061386 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this #erotic? < 1258061387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(goto, I'd imagine, is hard to use on a prompt) < 1258061388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -name '*.html' -exec chmod o-w {} + < 1258061391 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for %a in (*.txt) do sed -i -e "s/foo/bar/" %a < 1258061394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do that in one as short command :P < 1258061399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bat file is cheating < 1258061406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a .BAT (else I'd have to use %%) < 1258061407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be done on a single command line < 1258061411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight from prompt < 1258061412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bash -c find . -name '*.html' -exec chmod o-w {} + < 1258061413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258061425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sed isn't cmd.exe < 1258061426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\TEMP> for %a in (*.txt) do sed -i -e "s/foo/bar/" %a < 1258061434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? find isn't Bash either < 1258061436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think you need some quotes there. not 100% sure < 1258061451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably. < 1258061457 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: no < 1258061461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sorry, wrong term. "Not included by default installation of the OS" < 1258061461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first thing I do on any Windows box is install bash. < 1258061463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which find is < 1258061471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on all *nix I have seen < 1258061476 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole time I was just waiting for somethig to happen :( < 1258061478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: not unless this excites you < 1258061479 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12481> #+?\# _.@ < 1258061481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, find is POSIX. < 1258061484 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit... < 1258061494 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258061513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so is sed btw < 1258061528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX sed doesn't support "-i" anyways < 1258061546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, true, don't use it a lot. easy to work around anyway. GNU sed has it < 1258061555 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 4.x, yes < 1258061555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does freebsd sed iirc < 1258061557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258061561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258061563 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not NetBSD or OpenBSD < 1258061587 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Minix (although they probably have GNU sed by now) < 1258061602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`befunge 12481> #+?\# _.@ < 1258061606 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258061608 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge 12481> #+?\# _.@ < 1258061617 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I can never remember < 1258061629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one seemed correct, since it responded. < 1258061658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, indeed. still why not do: sed 's/..../..../' "$i" > "$i.tmp" && mv "$i.tmp" "$i"; done A bit more if you don't trust the directory to not contain such stuff (create a temp dir in /tmp and do it in there then) < 1258061669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, who uses minix? < 1258061685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minix 3 is getting better all the time (or so I hear) ;-) < 1258061708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try "mktmp". < 1258061718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. mktemp. < 1258061719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, try Perl ;-) < 1258061725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, the "for %a in (*.txt) do" I didn't know about. when was it added to cmd.exe? I'm pretty sure command.com didn't have it at least. So it must have been in NT or later? < 1258061740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMAND.COM has had it for as long as I'm aware of, actually < 1258061742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes. that is what you would use for said temp dir in /tmp < 1258061747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... File... < 1258061751 0 :nice!n=nice@p5B1370BE.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258061752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, guess it was poorly documented < 1258061755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would work too < 1258061763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, since I never seen any docs mentioning it < 1258061766 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, nope ... it's DOS history, actually, which you missed ;-) < 1258061782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, windows help center certainly didn't mention it on xp (which was last time I checked) < 1258061783 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :KingOfKarlsruhe < 1258061802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"help for" will show you what you want < 1258061802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the OS doesn't even come with proper documentation, how can anyone use it? < 1258061827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ask Windows. :P < 1258061831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what will tell me there is a help or a for command there though. Sure that would be reasonable to guess. But far from everything is. < 1258061856 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask that Paperclip ... or Rover ;-) < 1258061867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was office only. And shudder < 1258061875 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258061918 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm on XP now, and the "Search" in Start Menu (optionally) has Rover ;-) < 1258061993 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, Linux :-P < 1258062033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, no seriously, even MS-DOS 6 had HELP.EXE, and you can usually get short help by doing " /?" < 1258062068 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DR-DOS had DOSBOOK.EXE (with a HELP.BAT alias), FreeDOS has HTMLhelp (HELP.EXE) < 1258062108 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like they're trying to leave users in the cold, it's just that docs are always secondary importance, plus it's too much work to document everything < 1258062198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no sed equivalent (that I know of) on Windows < 1258062206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find and findstr are Windows equivalents of grep, though < 1258062218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic hasn't been included since Win95? (98?) < 1258062229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug still exists though, so technically you could probably do anything ;-) < 1258062238 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug and edlin, heh < 1258062284 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but DOS apps!, so only 32-bits Windows supported, kthxbai) < 1258062298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCC/LE says it does regex < 1258062315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edlin is the sed equivalent on Windows :-P < 1258062331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs things like long filenames < 1258062331 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :findstr supports regex, but find and edlin don't < 1258062338 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258062346 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids today :-D < 1258062367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also 16-bit and thus not provided on 64-bit Windowses (or maybe it is, but it won't run) < 1258062377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's what I meant < 1258062392 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox will run it though (although "why" is probably a better question) < 1258062393 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, you said so, I missed that. < 1258062558 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Deewiant, what changed in latest CCBI? (still no latest build for Win32) < 1258062560 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258062584 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258062610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Changelog. < 1258062634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE's R now reflects on EOF. < 1258062638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only change. < 1258062646 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE's R now reflects on EOF. < 1258062650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, beat me to it ;-) < 1258062691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the change wasn't that big explains why I haven't bothered to build it on Windows :-P < 1258062716 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy ;-) < 1258062736 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, have you heard of "Go" yet? < 1258062740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you like D) < 1258062743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, several times. < 1258062772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Two D-related IRC channels, LLVM IRC channel, D newsgroups, couple of posts on reddit, post on /.) < 1258062786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, #esoteric. :-P < 1258062845 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed reviews (although not too critical), but I suspect it will mature / morph a lot in the next year or two < 1258062860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug. < 1258062880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this the Google thing? < 1258062886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258062891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.lang.forth of all places had a short thread about it. < 1258062940 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because of the upcoming ChromeOS which may or may not utilize it < 1258062944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Young people are excited because it's by Google, older people because it's by the C/Unix/Plan 9 folks. < 1258062948 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relevant 'cause Forth can often serve as OS also) < 1258062963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and *BSD people because it's BSD-licensed < 1258062983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given how much stuff is BSD-licensed, *BSD people must lead pretty exciting lives. < 1258062985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, as opposed to proprietary? :-P Most languages are at least that free. < 1258062992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the language itself: meh. I'll see what happens. < 1258063002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not all languages are free < 1258063010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say that they were. < 1258063027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "most" implies that almost all are, which I doubt is the case < 1258063036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they probably should be) < 1258063058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, well, the comp.lang.forth thread has apparently now degenerated into a "discussion" whether Chrome OS is "an evil scheme to take control of everybody's computer?" (direct quote). < 1258063059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most" implies that more than half are, which probably is the case, excepting all kinds of used-in-only-one-project type DSLs. < 1258063062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that the vast majority of languages are proprietary, but none of the proprietary ones are massively popular < 1258063069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D < 1258063080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that half of companies have a proprietary language or two of their own < 1258063099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and I'd exclude those if they're only for their internal use. < 1258063108 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you really surprised? Earth has like 6000 living human languages :-/ < 1258063151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's surprised by what? < 1258063174 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody, just saying it's obvious that there are way too many languages out there < 1258063297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`befunge 01g0g,01g1+:83*-!#@_01p < 1258063298 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1258063306 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm doing it wrong < 1258063366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, are you trying to do? < 1258063367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quoting, lol): "STYLE GUIDELINES. Every Befunge programmer has their < 1258063368 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :own style. As a Befunge programmer your style should < 1258063370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be unique, ugly, and incomprehensible to others." < 1258063371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,// < 1258063381 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run a program that actual has output! < 1258063384 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow it's not working < 1258063400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`befunge 55+"ihaO",,,,,@ < 1258063401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1258063419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to typo, even. < 1258063421 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird knows how, but he's not here and I can't remember < 1258063429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`befunge 55*.@ < 1258063430 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run befunge 55*.@ < 1258063437 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1258063443 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1258063454 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since people were talking about Google Go the other day, here is my brief opinion from poking arounda t it a bit: Probably the worst language design in at least a decade. Easily the worst toolchain design in the entire history of toolchains. If I never touch this language again, it will be too soon. < 1258063454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which befunge < 1258063455 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`befunge 55*.@ > /dev/null < 1258063458 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's your problem < 1258063466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin < 1258063467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug \ bdftopcf \ bdftops \ bdftruncate < 1258063473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin/b* < 1258063474 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/base64 \ /usr/bin/basename \ /usr/bin/bashbug \ /usr/bin/bdftopcf \ /usr/bin/bdftops \ /usr/bin/bdftruncate \ /usr/bin/bsd-write < 1258063479 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bef 55*.@ > /dev/null < 1258063479 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, no befunge installed < 1258063485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin/c* < 1258063486 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/c++ \ /usr/bin/c++filt \ /usr/bin/c2ph \ /usr/bin/c89 \ /usr/bin/c89-gcc \ /usr/bin/c99 \ /usr/bin/c99-gcc \ /usr/bin/c_rehash \ /usr/bin/cal \ /usr/bin/calendar \ /usr/bin/captoinfo \ /usr/bin/catchsegv \ /usr/bin/catman \ /usr/bin/cc \ /usr/bin/chage \ /usr/bin/chattr \ /usr/bin/chcon \ /usr/bin/chfn \ /usr/bin/chkdupexe < 1258063486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which bef < 1258063487 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063488 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1258063493 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, EgoBot isn't here. < 1258063496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ain't right. < 1258063512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, worst this decade???? < 1258063520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that HackEgo has neither cfunge nor ccbi, I'm not sure why you're expecting befunge commands to work < 1258063523 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: In terms of "real" languages. It's completely horrible. < 1258063529 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to what? < 1258063532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java? C#? < 1258063535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there might be another befunge interp on there, but the c* command checks the most two common) < 1258063538 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge 55+"iahO",,,,,@ < 1258063549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd require EgoBot, who is absent. < 1258063549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: EgoBot isn't here < 1258063552 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Literally every language created for serious use. < 1258063553 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which fbbi < 1258063555 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: fbbi? < 1258063566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: There is no language I can compare it against without saying "Wow, Go is a steaming pile of shit compared to that language." < 1258063569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/local/bin < 1258063570 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258063570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Flaming Bovine Befunge-98 Interpreter < 1258063575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the original < 1258063586 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, main reasons? < 1258063602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: COBOL? < 1258063603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of its advertised features are comparable to INTERCAL's < 1258063608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, Issue 9 < 1258063609 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin < 1258063610 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug \ bdftopcf \ bdftops \ bdftruncate < 1258063612 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: COBOL is not in the last decade ;) < 1258063622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's an interesting statement < 1258063635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: reddit have decided to call the language Issue 9 rather than Go < 1258063647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know; I was talking about your previous statement < 1258063648 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because somebody already has "Go!" as a langauge < 1258063652 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Its type system is insane, its toolchain is horrible, its method of "encapsulation" is capitalization, it has no consistent interoperability story, lesse... < 1258063655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding INTERCAL. < 1258063660 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is literally not a single redeeming feature. < 1258063664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: things like light-weight coroutines < 1258063665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and duck typing < 1258063671 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so bad about the toolchain? < 1258063674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, this shell server is lagging. < 1258063679 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: THE BINARIES ARE NAMED PER FUCKING ARCHITECTURE < 1258063685 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6g? 8g? WTF?! < 1258063685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Plan 9 style, I hear. < 1258063689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(people nowadays seem not to keep track of INTERCAL development) < 1258063692 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, plan 9 is fucking stupid that way. < 1258063695 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, it's very fast, it's supposed to be good for concurrency < 1258063698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two pros, no? < 1258063705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to see any benchmarks. < 1258063706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast is not a pro unless we're compiling in 1965. < 1258063712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ick is pretty fast at compiling too < 1258063717 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the compiled code isn't fast, the compiler is fast. < 1258063720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, fast compiling is pretty much a no-brainer these days. < 1258063722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it then gets slowed down as you have to compile the C as well < 1258063729 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... I sure wish GCC was faster < 1258063732 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots faster < 1258063733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only C++ is too slow for comfort. < 1258063741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has fork-join-ish concurrency, which makes it "good" in a "hey if we restrict you to a ridiculous degree you won't make mistakes" sense. < 1258063752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And CCBI2, but that's due to compiler bugs.) < 1258063807 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard anyone say, "Nah, I don't need faster compiles" < 1258063818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: see INTERCAL's concurrency model, it's richer than pretty much all common languages up to about the Haskell level < 1258063819 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I don't need faster compiles < 1258063830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want a .wav of that, too? :-P < 1258063847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you must not compile a lot of stuff < 1258063853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else extremely patient < 1258063853 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Go is a no-go | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1258063874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Haskell's concurrency model over most other things. < 1258063875 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION jokingly suggested to rename it "!Go" (not Go) or "Go2" (goto) ;-)
< 1258063891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shared state"? What does that even mean when you don't have state? :P < 1258063912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of stuff do you compile that makes you feel such a need for speed? < 1258063932 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any non-trivial stuff with latest GCC < 1258063953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compile LLVM with latest GCC, I don't really mind how long that takes. < 1258063959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not for nothing that LLVM + CLang are gaining popularity < 1258063998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM's codegen bit isn't very fast, GCC is often faster :-P < 1258064000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what machine do you use? < 1258064009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux niðavellir 2.6.32-rc3-deewiant #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 9 17:07:44 EEST 2009 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux < 1258064017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously GCC is more mature (but slow ... oh so slowwwwwwww) < 1258064034 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.32-rc3 ... wow, slow adopter, eh? ;-) < 1258064038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang is a faster frontend, but LLVM's backend is typically slower in my experience. < 1258064061 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core 2 Quad x86-64, should've known :-P ;-0 < 1258064063 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1258064099 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if you have one of the fastest machines on the market it's "good enough", but be realistic, it could be loads better < 1258064124 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258064129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it probably could be < 1258064134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't feel the need for it. :-P < 1258064136 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not probably, definitely! < 1258064146 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... because you have a damn fast machine, one of the fastest out there now < 1258064159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about definitely since I haven't looked at GCC's code. < 1258064175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that's likely a reason I don't feel the need. :-P < 1258064183 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Bill Gates saying, "I think I'll give away a billion", it's because he's rich, not because 1 bil ain't worth nothing!! < 1258064186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't look at GCC's code < 1258064189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may end up wishing you hadn't < 1258064192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't intend to. < 1258064196 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thar be dragons < 1258064209 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be worse than Befunge98, though ;-) < 1258064216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1258064230 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was joking
< 1258064231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, gcc's .md files are actually written in two different languages < 1258064237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to write them as polyglots < 1258064258 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've briefly looked at GCC, I'm not saying it's not complex ... just that I'm sure it could be better < 1258064273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one language that coincidentally happens to be the intersection of two other languages < 1258064332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interesting viewpoint < 1258064371 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought that polyglots were just a game < 1258064400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Speaking of GCC, how goes gccbf? < 1258064409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: GCC's code is a crime. < 1258064411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it doesn't, I'm busy with loads of other things < 1258064418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Alas. < 1258064429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's now complete enough that it feels like a very buggy program, rather than an incomplete one < 1258064432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its build system should be put out of its misery. < 1258064438 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of code is horrible, it's rewriting everything that is hard < 1258064522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gcc's build system actually inspired ick's < 1258064537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense of, I looked at gcc's build system and resolved to do something different < 1258064546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably as different as possible, whilst still using autoconf < 1258064561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is this ick you speak of? updated Intercal-to-C proggie? < 1258064571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1258064583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: the C-INTERCAL compiler < 1258064587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick(10 < 1258064589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ick(1) < 1258064628 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick15d12.zip, ick-c024.tgz, ick-c025.tgz (all I have on this cpu, and I never really bothered learning it) < 1258064683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.25 is rather old < 1258064701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, yes, obviously, I'm implying that you should tell me what's new, where to get it, etc. ;-) < 1258064704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.-2.0.29 is available at http://overload.intercal.org.uk/ < 1258064708 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes Go's ability to retrofit interfaces onto classes
< 1258064713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-tim duck typing! < 1258064715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a beta, but should work fine on Linux and UNIX systems < 1258064723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reason it's beta is that it hasn't been tested on other architectures yet) < 1258064727 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has no parameterised types < 1258064730 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders about DJGPP ...
< 1258064730 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like WTF < 1258064741 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go or Intercal? ;-) < 1258064743 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the 80s < 1258064744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: older versions were actually tested on DJGPP < 1258064764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal has the excuse that it is actually from the 70s < 1258064776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: download 0.28 if you're on DJGPP, the DOS build is supported there < 1258064781 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, wasn't there a Befunge interpreter written in Intercal? < 1258064784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes < 1258064789 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what was that ping for? < 1258064793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the distribution, I forget which version it was added in though < 1258064804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: seemed you were still on about Go (twenty minutes late) ;-) < 1258064812 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258064821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, added in 0.28, with a bug fixed on 0.29 < 1258064823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in < 1258064827 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on several channels at once < 1258064832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so many releases on April Fools? coincidence? joke? :-) < 1258064836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: deliberate < 1258064842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a classic day for releasing INTERCAL versions < 1258064843 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258064894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugfix in 0.29 ("0.-2.0.29") doesn't help me much < 1258064904 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want me to try 0.29 in DJGPP also < 1258064929 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why such huge size increases? hmmm ... < 1258065002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the diff b/w C-INTERCAL and CLC-... oh well < 1258065048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, what the ... pax + gz ??? < 1258065069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's INTERCAL, it can't be too easy. < 1258065084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL are entirely different compilers < 1258065096 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously but how / why? < 1258065099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, .pax.gz is the POSIX-mandated format for tarballs < 1258065106 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1258065107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: completely different codebases and feature sets, different maintainers < 1258065113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you'll find tar decompresses it just fine < 1258065118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's backwards-compatible < 1258065134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only GNU tar, though, or? < 1258065136 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of pax, don't get me wrong, just ... too obscure IMHO < 1258065141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if we checked that. < 1258065149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: any POSIX-compatible tar < 1258065157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the ones that don't know the format will create junk dotfiles < 1258065160 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is starting to hate POSIX ...
< 1258065175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyways, no seriously, even MS-DOS 6 had HELP.EXE, and you can usually get short help by doing " /?" <-- yeah but how do you find out what built in control structures to look for? I would do man bash. but well yeah what is the equivalent of that... < 1258065200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: help.exe had a command list if you started it with no arguments < 1258065202 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean for the shell? < 1258065206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258065216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, help cmd, in more recent versions < 1258065229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or FreeCOM (from FreeDOS) prints a nice word list if you type "?" by itself < 1258065232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but I'm wondering if anything other than GNU is actually POSIX-compatible in that respect. :-P < 1258065242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it works in practice < 1258065264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the primary goal of INTERCAL is to act differently from everything else < 1258065272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if everything else packages incorrectly, INTERCAL should package correctly < 1258065291 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use .zip.7z or something silly like that (or .lbr + .sq, heh) < 1258065346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (quoting, lol): "STYLE GUIDELINES. Every Befunge programmer has their <-- where from is that? < 1258065346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't correct, that's just being silly for the sake of it < 1258065360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, INTERCAL does a lot of silly for the sake of it, but silly for a good reason is even better < 1258065363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, from that mailing list log you sent me < 1258065415 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then you should write a PAX unpacker in B98 or Intercal, stat! ;-) < 1258065423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: just use tar, it unpacks pax just fine < 1258065429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy ;-) < 1258065451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need quite a bit of knowledge about your specific OS to write a pax unpacker, anyway < 1258065465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /am/ interested to know if the 0.29 beta runs unmodified on DJGPP < 1258065469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I haven't tested that at all < 1258065478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's marked as a beta precisely because of the lack of testing < 1258065507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you have to write them as polyglots <-- huh? < 1258065517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a gcc .md file is compiled into two different object files < 1258065522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of which interprets the .md file a different way < 1258065571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh about gcc, I was surprised yesterday when gcc optimised a printf() into a puts() < 1258065577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I hadn't expected at all < 1258065597 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls Wumpus in Bef93. Spectacular.
< 1258065605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the md file do? < 1258065615 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.md = machine description ?? < 1258065618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's one of the major files that describes a target (such as x86 or ARM) < 1258065621 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent hours tracing the code path, and it only just fits in the grid < 1258065647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically specifies a) how to translate RTL into asm, and b) what sort of RTL is best to generate to produce decent code on that platform < 1258065662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it compiles into a GIMPLE->RTL translator and an RTL->asm translator < 1258065663 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but some platforms are better covered than others < 1258065676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why < 1258065686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is GIMPLE the 4.x one or the 3.x (treelang??) ? < 1258065695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: neither, it's an internal representation < 1258065707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's used between the frontend and backend < 1258065715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because optimisations take place on the RTL < 1258065734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the polyglot basically specifies the GIMPLE, RTL /and/ asm versions of bits of code < 1258065745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to do a lot of messing about to get it to work < 1258065759 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than AutoConf, heh ;-) < 1258065793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: autoconf can and does work fine in C-INTERCAL 0.29 < 1258065802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent weeks learning how it actually worked, rather than how everyone uses it < 1258065807 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in" or "used by"? < 1258065807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with the rest of autotools < 1258065813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, used to build it < 1258065816 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258065822 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, otherwise I'd have a heart attack < 1258065833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result, C-INTERCAL 0.29 has a build system that is both a) good, and b) based on autoconf < 1258065838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a combination which most people thought impossible < 1258065838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why does it have to be one file. Couldn't it be two? < 1258065852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there'd be quite a bit of duplication if there were two; I suppose that was the reasoning < 1258065879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "in" or "used by"? <-- nice idea there. < 1258065889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would fit well into intercal somehow I feel < 1258065902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: write an m4 fingerprint for cfunge < 1258065913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about autoconf configuring itself? Surely that can't be too bad < 1258065929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it mostly doesn't, autoconf is a script not a binary < 1258065931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a what? < 1258065937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258065938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258065946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wouldn't know where to start with m4 < 1258065960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: one of the new features in 0.29 is the ability to compile Funge-98 and INTERCAL together < 1258065961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoid autoconf, I know it a bit, but I don't know any "raw" m4 < 1258065971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw m4's actually quite a nice language < 1258065979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, automake then? Or something < 1258065979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an eso feel to it, too < 1258065984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: automake's Perl < 1258065985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1258065987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so does malbolge < 1258065988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258065992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, written in Perl < 1258065999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258066004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't write bits of Perl to expand it, you just use more m4 < 1258066030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab.... < 1258066036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automake's Perl and m4. < 1258066051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's automake (perl) plus a library for autoconf (m4) < 1258066073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: how's your C-INTERCAL build going? < 1258066093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to be a good boy and check the "README" first (instead of asking blindly, "just configure and make??" < 1258066095 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258066103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1258066107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the README used to be essential reading < 1258066112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't want to hear, "Read the README, n00b!"
< 1258066114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what version are you trying, btw?) < 1258066119 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258066120 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.29 < 1258066126 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said 0.28 works, so ... < 1258066133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1258066141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.28 works, 0.29 is untested (on DJGPP) < 1258066167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can configure out-of-tree, but your make must support VPATH (BTW) < 1258066195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not completely certain that's needed, given the typical automake insanity, but it probably is < 1258066209 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously haven't updated README, it says DJGPP works fine < 1258066224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, good catch < 1258066228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I wrote what was intended to happen < 1258066231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than what actually does < 1258066274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, needs VPATH to build out of tree < 1258066279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most makes have it nowadays, though, IIRC < 1258066289 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the bit about cfunge is obviously moot to DOS (no mmap) < 1258066300 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "most" means more than just GNU and *BSD, I hope < 1258066301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it works fine without though < 1258066326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can still build in-tree even if your make's lacking out-of-tree features < 1258066382 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258066412 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autoconf 2.61 (should work okay, 2.63 has typo, 2.64 exposed a now-fixed DJGPP Bash bug) < 1258066482 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258066483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it may be an artifact of DJGPP (or Windows in general, e.g. Cygwin) but Autoconf is *slow* < 1258066486 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258066499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 2.64 ("30% faster") isn't nearly fast enough for comfort < 1258066507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: the reason it's slow is that it has to invoke the compiler and linker tens of times < 1258066509 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ... faster on Cygwin" < 1258066510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on lots of trivial programs < 1258066517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it's actually gcc that's being slow, rather than autoconf < 1258066524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Windows. < 1258066529 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it checks too much cruft < 1258066536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not gcc, it's Windows's process invocation. < 1258066541 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know I know, tweak my config.site, bah) < 1258066548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: on some systems, those crufts may have unexpected values! < 1258066566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've clocked ./configure --help taking longer on Windows than the whole ./configure on Linux, on the same machine. < 1258066577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wow < 1258066579 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, some of the things it checks for are bogus, i.e. not required for the program (you could also blame the package maintainer I guess, but ...) < 1258066579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a cache? < 1258066587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I've tried to be careful wrt that < 1258066590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows process invocation is *very very slow*. < 1258066594 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's done already < 1258066602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure uses some kind of cache always, no? < 1258066603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the configure went fine, try a make < 1258066604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily not as painful as other packages I've built before (e.g. ZILE) < 1258066605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it really doesn't matter < 1258066613 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-C is optional < 1258066617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, a pre-existing cache < 1258066623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not really; caching is a bit broken. < 1258066624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No in both cases. < 1258066625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't use -C, it caches just for one run then deletes the cache again < 1258066640 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: configure didn't bomb out, so here goes nothing ... "make" < 1258066678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should've done --disable-dependency-tracking but didn't want to push too hard ...
< 1258066703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libidiot.a, a lib after my own heart! < 1258066704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dependency tracking bit only matters for rebuilds. < 1258066709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In any case, ./configure on Windows is, in my experience, slower than it would be for me to type the values in manually. < 1258066713 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, and slows everything down too < 1258066727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autoconf-generated configures, that is. < 1258066737 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: completed without error, now what? test some stuff in pit? < 1258066742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: if you like < 1258066747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or install if you prefer < 1258066761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is convickt? < 1258066765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oil? < 1258066766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: a character set converter < 1258066784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, if you get an INTERCAL program in EBCDIC, you can convert it to ASCII to run it with C-INTERCAL < 1258066792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OIL is a domain-specific language for writing optimiser idioms in < 1258066796 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, like that'll happen ;-) < 1258066809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the optimiser got better really quickly after I wrote OIL < 1258066813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it became so much easier to change < 1258066858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your .pax files really truly should be .tar; pax creates archives in USTAR format, just like GNU Tar and BSD Tar... < 1258066879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, USTAR and .pax are slightly different IIRC < 1258066883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258066887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, you can configure out-of-tree, but your make must support VPATH (BTW) <-- doesn't all? < 1258066900 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1258066912 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they always warn about that < 1258066929 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick +help doesn't work (should it?) < 1258066933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 5 tar says that pax follows the ustar format, but contains more data < 1258066939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no, +help is for programs you created < 1258066942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ick -@ < 1258066958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, ick supports -@, programs you create using ick support +help) < 1258066980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Sure enough -- pax adds an extended header. < 1258067015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at a pax archive using a non-pax untar tool, such as Emacs, you see extra dotfiles in the archive < 1258067063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that pax archives are as capable as GNU tar, but a bit different. < 1258067085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU tar isn't POSIX-compatible < 1258067096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas pax is compatible with old tars, and with GNU tar as well < 1258067114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, GNU tar is USTAR with additional features that aren't all that POSIX-compliant. < 1258067121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1258067130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think pax is compatible even with ancestral tar < 1258067138 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258067144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just ignores all the data in there it doesn't understand, as it's placed into reserved fields and-or dotfiles < 1258067146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, I know, and slows everything down too <-- never noticed that. Half a second difference on a project taking 3-4 minutes to build. But that is within the error margin I think. Since the build time varied with like 5 seconds anwyway < 1258067152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway* < 1258067175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much dependency tracking slows it down depends on the compiler < 1258067176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try on a non-Core2 billion GB machine ;-) < 1258067177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: According to this, it isn't required to be: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/pax.html < 1258067189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compilers that can't produce dependency info as a side-effect, it slows it down by a factor of 2 < 1258067199 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't work ... or at least "ick -g hail_mary.3i" isn't doing anything (nor "-c" etc.) < 1258067217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not even producing hail_mary.c or hail_mary? < 1258067221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ick -y hail_mary.3i < 1258067228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should bring up a debug prompt < 1258067241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, keeps saying "NO SKELETON IN MY CLOSET" < 1258067255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love INTERCAL error messages <3 < 1258067255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for compilers that can't produce dependency info as a side-effect, it slows it down by a factor of 2 <-- gcc can do that though < 1258067268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: oh, make sure syslib.3i is in the right place < 1258067278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't installed, try copying it into the current directory so it can find it < 1258067288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ick-wrap.c may need to be copied there too) < 1258067348 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunch of compilers errors when using "-g" < 1258067395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's more interesting < 1258067397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you paste them? < 1258067408 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, probably 'cause I'm trying to run inside /pit < 1258067480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't cause the errors... < 1258067519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, too many files < 1258067527 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what headers and libs need to be where :-/ < 1258067539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install should put them all into the right places for you < 1258067550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't mind installing < 1258067560 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it, I've tried that before on other packages, and it didn't work correctly < 1258067563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it'll look in the current directory, and a couple of binary-relative places < 1258067571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but binary-relative is quite possibly broken on DOS < 1258067576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to having a different path separator < 1258067675 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying on a "clean" install of DJGPP) < 1258067706 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no errors! (-g) < 1258067715 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258067735 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11/12/2009 05:15 PM 216,066 hail_mary.exe < 1258067750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it failed on an unclean install, but worked on a clean one? < 1258067753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the issue was < 1258067754 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, very very boring example, heh, but it seems to work) < 1258067761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1258067784 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I "installed" DJGPP in a separate place (so as not to pollute my main install) and did "make install" there, and it installed ICK correctly where it works < 1258067793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258067806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000000 might take a while (snore) < 1258067824 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even print the number it's on *sniff* < 1258067866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can already guess a __dpmi_yield() call would be nice ;-) < 1258067881 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it finished < 1258067891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does __dpmi_yield do? < 1258067906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, DOS is single-process, so on pure DOS you couldn't yield execution at all, sensibly < 1258067909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :release the time slice to OS < 1258067914 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS != DPMI < 1258067933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hit ctrl-c instead? < 1258067944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1258067948 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2, Novell / DR-DOS 7, Win 3.x on up all support it (int 2fh, 168fh) ... technically DPMI 1.0 but all of those are 0.9 only, so ... < 1258067961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you can run DPMI on pure-DOS, though; does it just ignore the call when you do that? < 1258067979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind putting a __dmpi_yield in behind a #ifdef __DJGPP__ barrier or whatever < 1258067989 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on DR-DOS 7.03? only if not multitasking (which needs its own DPMI server) < 1258068007 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm pretty sure all other DOS-only DPMI servers ignore it < 1258068014 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would have to check to be sure, though) < 1258068056 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpmi.h -> __dpmi_yield() < 1258068085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Bash uses this to not hog cpu time completely < 1258068129 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, under FreeDOS it's moot (dunno about DOSEMU though, would be vaguely interested to find out) < 1258068137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU has its own DPMI also < 1258068165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : e.g. Bash uses this to not hog cpu time completely <-- what the hell are you on about. If running under windows, wouldn't it do it's own scheduling? < 1258068166 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DOSBox has no built-in DPMI server, so you have to use whatever would be used in real DOS < 1258068183 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, NTVDM will gladly hog up a lot of your processor < 1258068190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP comes with a DPMI server, IIRC < 1258068195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, of half you mean. Dual core :P < 1258068204 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, pre-emptive multitasking is still in control, but it's fairly lenient in letting you hog almost everything else if you wish < 1258068226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that's strange. I'm pretty sure the linux one isn't < 1258068226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DJGPP comes with CWSDPMI, which ignores the __dpmi_yield function. < 1258068241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was thinking of < 1258068247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is not designed only for CWSDPMI, though, but for any compliant DPMI 0.9 server < 1258068264 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWSDPMI is just for those who don't have any other < 1258068269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0x2f interrupt handler only handles function 1686h, "Get CPU Mode". < 1258068271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not port ick to classic mac os? < 1258068275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has that already been done? < 1258068284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: port? in theory it should run unmodified on anything without porting < 1258068286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, that's just theory < 1258068297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to do something about the console < 1258068301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, emulate one yourself < 1258068301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if classic mac is around, it would be nice if someone would try it and let me know where it fails < 1258068319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, if it doesn't have any sh-equivalent, then a new build system would be needed < 1258068320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have one emulator with MPW I could try tomorrow. Runs OS 9/PPC. < 1258068348 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably hack your own config.h if needed < 1258068350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed it doesn't. Well MPW has it's own weird shell-like thingy. You select some text press a key combo to execute it. < 1258068362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the make isn't the usual syntax < 1258068363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1258068366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it doesn't do sh commands < 1258068377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW make just outputs a series of commands you can run < 1258068390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply tracking which commands make calls and putting them into a text file would be enough to create a relatively universal build system < 1258068398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, as you say, config.h was set correctly < 1258068404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the C compiler is called MrC iirc < 1258068409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc won't work < 1258068419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlinks can fake that easily enough < 1258068428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the system you use to make the makescript < 1258068435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, currently Task Manager says anywhere from "89%" used by hail_mary.exe to "95%" or "97%" or "99%" etc. (it varies) < 1258068438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still. It can't do STDOUT easily. As it will go into the void < 1258068447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to make your own window to draw it in < 1258068450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could freopen it to a file < 1258068452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, done again, now to see how many lines in that file I redirected ;-) < 1258068454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or that < 1258068472 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, stuff like that has been done before, e.g. so-called Win16 extender (OpenWatcom) < 1258068481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, path separator on mac is : < 1258068484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not / or \ < 1258068496 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or RSX's shell (rshell or whatever it was called) < 1258068500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a problem if everything's in the same directory < 1258068529 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, million lines, so it worked! < 1258068548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy, 11 MB file ;-) < 1258068570 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compresses to 21k .ZIP (unsurprisingly) < 1258068581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and the MrC command has a completely weird syntax iirc. Will take a look at this tomorrow. Should be fun. I'm not even sure there is a full standard library there. Or if there is, how you link to it < 1258068582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1258068591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it C89-compliant? < 1258068597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *maaaaybe* < 1258068605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R, probably < 1258068618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Programmer%27s_Workshop < 1258068629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it has some limited C++ support iirc. Oh and Pascal < 1258068659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! Interfunge prints output in Roman numerals ... that I didn't expect (and I knew Intercal loved 'em!) < 1258068661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently it supports stdout if you redirected it < 1258068668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258068691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no GCC port for Macs? < 1258068700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, for classic ones? I'd doubt it < 1258068709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or discontinued if so < 1258068710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently libiberty specifically had support for MPW < 1258068711 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't GCC start out on 68000? also, Atari has one < 1258068712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was for a while < 1258068717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1258068736 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people who have GCC 3.x running for Atari cpus, I think < 1258068761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ported Quake to some Atari machine (Falcon 68060?) < 1258068807 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Quake was originally cross-compiled from Alphas?? for DOS / DJGPP target, C + some FPU-heavy ASM) < 1258068840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I really need to go home < 1258068843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258068863 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, ais523: thanks (post mortem) :-) < 1258068910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258069025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, btw if you get the cfunge-intercal thing (IFFI) to work on that I will be extremely impressed. Considering that cfunge is a pain to get working even on cygwin (and even then some parts don't work) < 1258069050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I doubt it since you said it needed mmap, and that's unsupported in DJGPP < 1258069064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without DPMI 1.0 fiddling, which I'm not intimately familiar with) < 1258069071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, right. You could rewrite file loading code I guess. < 1258069074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot < 1258069091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that won't go upstream though) < 1258069119 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, FBBI compiles in DJGPP < 1258069134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI might work under HX (haven't tried) < 1258069138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HX? < 1258069147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.japheth.de/HX.html < 1258069153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything is supported (obviously) < 1258069157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, cfunge is C99 + quite a lot POSIX < 1258069164 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258069175 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP has GCC 4.4.1 and supports a fair subset of POSIX < 1258069182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.4? not bad < 1258069192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, wait, is it 32-bit? < 1258069198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258069202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1258069209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge wouldn't be happy with 640k < 1258069210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC doesn't officially support anything less on x86 < 1258069229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake needed 8 MB of RAM (1996), and it used DJGPP < 1258069244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, GCC itself would never ever fit in 640k < 1258069266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I take it back ... maybe with HEAVY swapping (CWSDPMI) < 1258069278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJ did start it in 1989 on his 386 w/ 2 MB of extended RAM < 1258069285 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course GCC was loads simpler then < 1258069309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, iirc with loading *.so, setting up memory pools (large for performance reasons) and so on cfunge needs something like 15 MB virtual address space for the ulimit on my x86_64 system < 1258069316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it more? I forgot < 1258069336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, DJ? < 1258069350 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJ = founder of DJGPP (DJ's GNU Programming Platform) < 1258069356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258069385 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, memory limits are imposed by DPMI host, not DJGPP (although I think 2 GB is somehow hardcoded somewhat in libc but can be worked around ... never completed because nobody had interest, according to CWS) < 1258069401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprised < 1258069411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't build GCC anymore in less than 128 MB or such < 1258069423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not surprised either < 1258069426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be where 16 MB was enough (2.x) < 1258069447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, good luck getting cmake working in there (alas, not needed for IFFI, IFFI builds it differently) < 1258069457 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, DJ said (1996) he could build GCC in thirty minutes on his 486 DX/100 < 1258069476 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one guy wanted to port Cmake but stopped due to Bash bug < 1258069494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same bug cropped up when Autoconf released 2.64 (nobody tested, gah), now fixed ... but a bit too late (five years) < 1258069543 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help that MS never fixed NT bugs in their DPMI server, etc. < 1258069559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor that hardware acceleration almost never worked in DOS (does 3dfx count? barely ...), which distracted many a developer < 1258069571 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Quake / DOS never ran in NT (only 9x) < 1258069575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why does anyone care < 1258069582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox, sure < 1258069588 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, sorry, thought you might wanna know for trivia ;-) < 1258069596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DJGPP these days? < 1258069604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258069607 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* why not, if it works? < 1258069625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you could use that to defend cobol too < 1258069634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or Befunge98 ;-) < 1258069646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, or anything < 1258069647 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zing* < 1258069652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ;-) < 1258069655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my point < 1258069663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that that reason makes no sense < 1258069676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is ... DJGPP works well for what it does, so why not use it? < 1258069690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also, tell me when you rewrote fungot in befunge93 < 1258069690 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and it was to late yeah it is it you don't have anything and was being assesed on my face he.d be in movies like this < 1258069700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258069702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1258069702 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* < 1258069711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1258069711 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1258069717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, . < 1258069717 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: eating a yeti. ceram) < 1258069724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, not a good idea... < 1258069729 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup for the win!! < 1258069730 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: c*ckatrice: once you know what that is?) < 1258069737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no way < 1258069742 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws a cockatrice at fungot
< 1258069742 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: they say that blue stones are radioactive, beware. " the eyes!" " how the indian deity quetzalcoatl came from the fiends, that david hasted, and he had no wallet and no pockets, so that they might challenge his own sword, lion's skin, and damage, both spell and physical, is about the time that paris was full of carlists who had brought. for a price list. < 1258069754 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION while wearing gloves, of course
< 1258069762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, too late to mention that now < 1258069776 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to him, maybe ;-) < 1258069781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, to you < 1258069789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, good thing you are alive < 1258069789 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: zruty: the name _sasquatch_ doesn't really become important in canada until the 1930s, when because of the truly great unknown animals of the giant farbauti and of themselves, their ragged, unfurry skin is as white as a god of light who was next me; and in the motion of the twilight they could find it, on those marvelous birthday mornings, he would peel back a tiny bit of a horse. ( conan the usurper, by david gerrold < 1258069791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I mention it to myself? :-) < 1258069792 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A|t{u~v[X7=�:Pzno5xp}y8/f1liated/anmaster: they say that applying a unicorn horn rule is if it was a serviette he had no wallet and no pockets, so you can be almost instantly fatal. its streaming mane kindled, and is looked upon as the wolf runs," mom said. " it can catch. < 1258069811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, because you are insane due to crawl? < 1258069812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258069822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258069823 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, Crawl is fun < 1258069825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, !!!!! < 1258069830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fungot bug above < 1258069830 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you swallowed the fortune cookie is the son of the sun god of fire. < 1258069835 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, NetHack compiles under DJGPP (as does SLASH 'EM and Falcon's Eye) < 1258069837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dual highlight thing again < 1258069850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with the corrupted data < 1258069859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened once before as you may remember < 1258069868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup (and the original) < 1258069881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what about X? < 1258069882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258069890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X runs under cygwin < 1258069893 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a Xlibemu at one time, but v1 only < 1258069896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a ported X I assume < 1258069901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, v1 of? < 1258069904 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I forgot about Desqview/X < 1258069911 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's proprietary, old, and v1 only also < 1258069914 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1 of DJGPP < 1258069915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pre 1996) < 1258069917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258069925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ABI breakage? < 1258069926 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v2 is DPMI only, LFNs out-of-the-box < 1258069934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFN? < 1258069938 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1 was GO32.EXE extender, supported VCPI or DPMI etc., no LFNs < 1258069944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFN = more than 8.3 < 1258069946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VCPI? < 1258069950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 8.3 of? < 1258069954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh filenames < 1258069955 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VCPI = DOS extenders before DPMI existed < 1258069976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Windows stopped supporting (directly) in Win 3.0 < 1258070002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and all my systems are 64-bit. So I don't need to bother about even seeing that mess any more < 1258070004 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Win 3.x /S ("standard" / 286) mode supported VCPI (which was ironically an extension of EMS and needed a 386) < 1258070009 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notices anmaster is sleep-IRC'ing
< 1258070013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what mess? < 1258070020 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to see anything if you close your eyes ;-) < 1258070023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, failing to get away from the computer when I should < 1258070026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258070041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mess? Well. DPMI. The yield stuff. Lots of more? < 1258070051 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, DOSEMU works pretty well under x86-64 (for most DJGPP apps, anyways) < 1258070076 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's supposed to be transparent, you shouldn't have to think of the low-level details < 1258070081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, most of them probably work natively under linux anyway. So I fail to see the point. < 1258070083 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... unless you want to < 1258070097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natively IF somebody compiled them for you < 1258070101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no proper memory protection. No fork(). Lots of more < 1258070109 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has memory protection < 1258070111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, um. I have make :P < 1258070120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh really? NX too? < 1258070131 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258070150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, can you make an app not able to break out? < 1258070158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, even proper *nix like security < 1258070185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe not < 1258070195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what about file permissions? < 1258070195 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know for sure, honestly < 1258070224 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DR-DOS supports passwords and weak partition encryption, but I assume that's not what you mean < 1258070238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I meant chmod < 1258070240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chown < 1258070249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiuser system basically < 1258070255 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS inherently doesn't natively support anything more than +a +r +s +h < 1258070266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiuser DOSes, but I've never used 'em (very rare) < 1258070268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I'm not familiar with those < 1258070276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+a = archive bit < 1258070278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+s = system bit < 1258070280 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ h = hidden < 1258070283 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+r = read only < 1258070291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258070298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why +a? < 1258070307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't comparing timestamp work < 1258070317 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timestamps can change, I guess < 1258070325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the official reason, honestly, and nobody uses it anymore < 1258070330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so can that bit, otherwise useless < 1258070380 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a backup is interrupted halfway through, the next run will still backup the other half because their A bits are still set? < 1258070416 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but with timestamps it's either all of the files or none of them < 1258070432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, um. sure. but you could do that with updating the timestamp file listing as you did the backup < 1258070455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you need two files, still easy < 1258070460 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like updating the last modified date? but then it isn't the date it was last modified anymore < 1258070466 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some people didn't want to change their timestamps when backing up?? (dunno) < 1258070470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, like keeping a list like: < 1258070483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo\bar 118273 < 1258070483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one time in DOS: last modified < 1258070487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo\quux 11231 < 1258070489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258070505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last access and creation are supported in FAT32 (but not by FreeDOS for speed reasons) < 1258070514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when backing up check the last modification time, see if it is newer than what is your list of files < 1258070517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is, back it up < 1258070520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise skip it < 1258070524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1258070525 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more complicated than a simple bit on each file < 1258070533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, that's true < 1258070542 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, my only regret is that we're stuck with Bash 2.05b, which doesn't support BashFunge :-( < 1258070558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, bashfunge? why does that sound familiar < 1258070561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not THAT hard to port 3.0, though I'm probably not too handy in that area) < 1258070567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is seeing zombies and spooks right now
< 1258070568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? heh, uh ... < 1258070582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, bashfunge was really broken. And I won't fix it. < 1258070587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, dead project < 1258070591 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering I've only know about Befunge for less than 3 months, it can't have been that long ;-) < 1258070591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work out well < 1258070602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sniff* and it was such a good idea :-/ < 1258070622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(worked in Cygwin although I didn't test that hard) < 1258070629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sure. But well the unlimited size turned out to be a pain < 1258070639 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlimited? oh, B98 again? < 1258070646 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God forbid you do a B93-only version ;-) < 1258070648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some of the 98-stuff is missimplemented < 1258070662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah. I'm not about to touch that code < 1258070670 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy ;-) < 1258070673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, if I did, I would go bash 4 < 1258070678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he called three people lazy today (in jest), heh
< 1258070682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some really useful stuff there < 1258070692 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, might as well go Perl or Python or Ruby or ... < 1258070703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flavor of month) < 1258070703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no. zsh would be one step in between < 1258070727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash3, bash4, perl/python/ruby < 1258070733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't correct < 1258070737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash3, bash4, zsh, perl/python/ruby < 1258070739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is correct < 1258070779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, isn't everyone else on bash4 nowdays? < 1258070791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258070794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen many Linux distros still using 3.2 < 1258070798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Cygwin still uses 3.2 < 1258070812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well sure. I have a few around here. Arch, Ubuntu, Gentoo < 1258070817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be 4.x all of them < 1258070835 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu? if you say so, it wasn't last I checked (but haven't gotten 9.10 yet) < 1258070844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo upgraded only somewhat recently, but yeah, it's 4.0 here. < 1258070861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't check *bsd atm. Probably okay on freebsd. No clue about open or net < 1258070885 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those obviously don't use Bash by default < 1258070893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well yes < 1258070902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mac OS X is probably very outdated < 1258070915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but I don't have a Mac < 1258070920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1258070924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only classic one < 1258070928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Dad's five-year-old Panther (10.3.9) still had 2.05b also < 1258070944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oldest one I ever used was tiger < 1258070949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what it had < 1258070962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I saw someone using twm and tcsh today < 1258070969 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 2.03 or such < 1258070977 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258070977 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258070979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a teacher at university, starting a projector to demonstrate stuff < 1258070981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that was tcsh, who knows < 1258070993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran ubuntu, with console login, then starting X manually < 1258070999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had something called "ctwm" < 1258071012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it was definitely csh, think it was tcsh even < 1258071027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm too < 1258071040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that old black/white checker bg < 1258071050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1258071136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not the foggiest idea why he used ubuntu as the base for that. After all that sounds like a pain compared to using arch that way. < 1258071155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1258071165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1258071186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure ick input works correctly ... or else isn't doing it correctly
< 1258071205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My god. < 1258071221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Eeeeew. < 1258071323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see ... "ONE OH THREE" is Intercal input < 1258071949 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258072050 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258072068 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-132-190.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258072070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1258072072 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258074502 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258075400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258076587 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258078766 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258078914 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have any ideas about debugging dynamic recompilers? < 1258079871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cry. < 1258079873 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cry a lot. < 1258080139 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work :P < 1258080170 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's cathartic. < 1258080369 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In medicine, a cathartic is a substance which accelerates defecation." <-- wtf? < 1258080399 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, catheters can be quite cathartic. < 1258080550 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it must be really bad code if it makes desmume crahs < 1258080553 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crash < 1258080561 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ds emulator, which is what my recompiler is running on) < 1258080668 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it runs the recompiler until a jump instruction, then runs the interpreter until the same instruction, etc... until something doesn't match or isn't implemented < 1258080678 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but comparing all of memory takes ages < 1258080684 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each jump instruction < 1258082011 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258082015 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258083537 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258083587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any esoteric languages based on Conway's Game of Life? < 1258083772 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes http://esolangs.org/wiki/Golang < 1258083788 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, now i can't delete that < 1258083789 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1258083804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258084021 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REDGREEN is a superset of the game of life: http://catseye.tc/projects/redgreen/eg/life.red < 1258084064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's pretty neat < 1258084112 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258084454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258084480 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258085291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258085311 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258085354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. DVD-ROM disks that are claimed to last 1ka. Even if they last in readable shape for half that (500a), one probably isn't going to get any sane data off them... < 1258085688 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258086164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a? < 1258086178 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an a? < 1258086826 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258087143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258087669 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258088215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258090555 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258091520 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-85.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258091947 0 :bsmntbombdood__!n=gavin@97-118-113-76.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258091955 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn my connection sucks < 1258091961 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone here my nipple story? < 1258092384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258092387 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1258093479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not "happened once before"; by my count this was at least the fourth occurrence. I probably should save those ?-generated random numbers somewhere so that I could reproduce it. (Or just run the text-generation code again and again until it crashes; can't take that long.) < 1258096257 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258096261 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258096549 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258099199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258099200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258099476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258099740 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258100020 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-132-190.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258100312 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258100440 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-123-160.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258101049 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258103286 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258103380 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-26.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258105816 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258106000 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-95.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107333 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258107530 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-95.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mhm < 1258108634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc < 1258108662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. < 1258109011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great.... zooming a pdf to 150% in evince and in okular gives completely different results < 1258109034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in evince the text is then about twice as big as in okular < 1258109931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always assumed that the "100 %" there is supposed to take into account the screen DPI and show it at "natural size"; come to think of it, I wonder if that's true. < 1258110061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an A4 .pdf, evince's "100 %" seems to be pretty close to natural A4 size, though the width is about 7 mm off; xpdf's "100 %" is utterly too small. < 1258110106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Adobe Reader's "100 %" is something like 3 cm too wide. < 1258110154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's because Reader's configuration is not "Use system setting: 97 pixels/inch" but instead "Custom resolution: 110 pixels/inch". Don't know where that came from. < 1258110172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defaults to a custom resolution. < 1258110174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know why. < 1258110180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange. < 1258110284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the system default 97 ppi, it's the same width that Evince does. (The "correct" value -- leading to the right width -- would seem to be somewhere between 99 and 100.) < 1258110449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's really strange is the xrandr output: TMDS-1 connected 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 367mm x 275mm < 1258110472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1600 points in 367mm would give exactly that 110 ppi. But it's very much incorrect. < 1258110492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258110551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm what about okular then? < 1258110570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found no custom resolution setting in okular < 1258110587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in evince < 1258110645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okular's "100 %" seems to mostly match the xpdf one; I guess they were related, anyway? < 1258111095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably < 1258111425 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258111613 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-135-209.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258114223 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258114265 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258114689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok I got a simple hello world to build as a classic PPC app under MPW now < 1258114696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make it work as 68k nor as FAT < 1258114710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should be ready to take on ick if I pre-generate most files < 1258117407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah it seems including the type "long long" makes the 68k compiler crash < 1258119849 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258119877 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-247.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258120577 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258120618 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258124013 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-134-86.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258124026 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258124029 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258124176 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258124178 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258126649 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258126881 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-117-28.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258128663 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129253 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129657 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129761 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"brb" < 1258130067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some progress with ick on mac < 1258130072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however some questions < 1258130080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SIZEOF__BOOL thing in config.h < 1258130085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if there is no _Bool < 1258130090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set it to 0 < 1258130093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to the null string < 1258130102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the code accepts either as meaning no _Bool < 1258130104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what is the difference between bconfig.h and config.h? < 1258130112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing unless you're cross-compiling < 1258130117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I got bin2c to build. but I can't redirect IO do it < 1258130119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to* < 1258130127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor give it command line arguments < 1258130136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are cross-compiling, then bconfig is for the system you build on, whereas config is for the system you're targeting < 1258130161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the output of bin2c doesn't depend on anything but the input files, so feel free to use a prebuilt version of the resulting .c files < 1258130178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same goes for oil btw I think < 1258130188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same fix will work < 1258130190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for ick I have to figure out some way around it < 1258130195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command line bit I mean < 1258130196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you can't redirect, though? < 1258130202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a wrapper that uses system and freopen, if you like < 1258130205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that to do the redirection < 1258130215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no shell to do it in. As for system(), no clue what it does < 1258130236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the Wikipedia article you linked, the shell-equivalent is pretty good at redirection... < 1258130271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it works for special MPW tools only. Which are not normal applications < 1258130282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and there are two ways to go: MPW (free download) or CodeWarrior (far from). The latter supports emulating some aspects of a terminal for your app. STDIO < 1258130290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia said it worked for everything, by hooking syscalls < 1258130327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hum. didn't work for me < 1258130370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, will check if I can get bin2c to build under MPW. with codewarrior I got that bit to build. < 1258130372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1258130893 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258131127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what creator code should ick, bin2c and so on have? < 1258131132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codes* < 1258131141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 4 printable bytes. < 1258131147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure really < 1258131180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly 4 printable bytes. With printable bytes I mean not just alphanumeric, but also symbols. I have seen SIT! for example. And "MPS " < 1258131191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is MPW in fact < 1258131193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them all NUL characters < 1258131200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, printable... < 1258131203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1258131264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and "long long" isn't supported by the 68k compiler < 1258131267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is by the PPC one < 1258131282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, strdup is missing. So is snprintf < 1258131288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: config.h should catch those < 1258131297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be #ifdef-guarded < 1258131302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. But it wants size of long long somewhere in there < 1258131319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I haven't got IO to work at all for 68k apps < 1258131326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, freopen to a file doesn't work < 1258131333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works for PPC apps < 1258131345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is how I found out size of the types for it) < 1258131347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258131382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "doesn't work" here means "compiles and runs fine, but no resulting file" < 1258131397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very strange < 1258131428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, what is the file list for ick, avoiding any *.a (I haven't figured out how they work yet) < 1258131454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, the sources or the binaries? < 1258131497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, list of all *.o that ends up in it < 1258131499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would work fine < 1258131516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have tried figuring out from the Makefile.am but that was quite messy < 1258131568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the contents of ick_SOURCES, nodist_ick_SOURCES, and ick_LDADD < 1258131573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at bin2c.c.ppc.o
< 1258131576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice filename < 1258131611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the oil stuff. MPW makefile must do all the work in advance as you knopw < 1258131612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so src/feh2.c src/dekludge.c src/ick_lose.c src/fiddle.c src/perpet.c src/uncommon.c parser.y lexer.l idiotism.oil are the sources < 1258131614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know* < 1258131645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.o dekludge.o ick_lose.o fiddle.o perpet.o uncommon.o parser.o lexer.o libidiot.a are the object files < 1258131663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the files generated by oil don't exist until oil runs < 1258131668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the make here outputs a script. So it must be able to figure out exactly which files would be generated by oil < 1258131679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the input, though, as to how many there are < 1258131685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.y and *.l won't work < 1258131700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see the prebuilt/ directory < 1258131701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well sure. But you surely see the issue here? I can't work around it in any sane way < 1258131703 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258131704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that one already < 1258131707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know about that < 1258131717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work around it in an insane way, then < 1258131722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say by invoking the make recursively < 1258131730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once to figure out how many files are needed, once to actually do the building < 1258131798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I can't figure out a make rule for files in a subdirectory < 1258131809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not a generic one < 1258131851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that using the make version there at all is the right thing to do, if it's that limited? < 1258131857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any shellscript-equivalent? < 1258131916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, the make one is better than a plain script, becuase compiling and linking is complex. So I don't want to have to write out lots of full command lines. Unless you can tell me how to do functions in the MPW shell. < 1258131922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least variables. < 1258131963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the MPW shell works at all < 1258131966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw to add to the confusion. *.a is usually asm here < 1258131986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no actual need to library up libidiot.a < 1258131997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that make understands one library better than an unknown number of object files < 1258132036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are some sort of libraries. I have yet to figure out how to create those < 1258132662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about redirection < 1258132667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a very strange error < 1258132676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unable to create finder parameter list for this application" < 1258132698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait < 1258132704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is due to the command line argument it wants < 1258132708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not due to redirection < 1258133126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I figured it out. For normal applications, all arguments on command line must be valid existing files < 1258133131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sure is a showblocker < 1258133136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's weird < 1258133155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any way to work around it in ick and such? < 1258133182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to get its command line arguments some other way < 1258133190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, standard input? < 1258133202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258133216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also even after creating the relevant file, it didn't work. Not sure why yet. < 1258133228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs now, but gives an error message < 1258133237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the normal one for no arguments) < 1258133290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about converting it to an MPW tool? < 1258133306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at an example MPW tool to figure out how messy that would be
< 1258133329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay answer to that is "quite a bit" < 1258133380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1258133471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes a special resource script < 1258133541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if this is to go upstream I will need a special subdirectory for mac specific files < 1258133548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any recommended directory name? < 1258133553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macos9 < 1258133554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also where is the current darcs repo < 1258133559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using 0.29 here < 1258133564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I actually can't rememebr < 1258133569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1258133569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were hosting it < 1258133584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I told you ages ago, that server went down. < 1258133594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been middle of summer or so. < 1258133609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you said iirc you would move it. < 1258133641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258133645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's nowhere atm then < 1258133907 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258134063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interestingly enough the MPW shell and MPW make makes use of some non-ASCII letters < 1258134073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "greater than or equal to" for redirecting stderr < 1258134096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some weird symbol I can't type on my pc for what \ would do in a normal makefile < 1258134272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh this is funny. < 1258134279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:foo < 1258134283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means foo on Volume < 1258134287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:foo:bar < 1258134293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means bar in folder foo on Volume < 1258134298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now the funny part: < 1258134300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::foo < 1258134304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means foo in current directory < 1258134311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258134315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revese of UNIX-style < 1258134336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. lucky thing I didn't have a volume called baudot.c < 1258134357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I wonder what that thing actually did, since it didn't give an error either < 1258134457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I managed to lock up MPW by bin2c, when it didn't quit but read on stdin. heh < 1258134477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258134498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the tool thing is similar to a dynamically loaded module < 1258134523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay bin2c foo < :src:baudot.bin > :baudot.c < 1258134525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1258134533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minus the "okay" first of course) < 1258134568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however, it seems all source files must be in the same directory, no subdirs allowed. Or I just can't figure it out < 1258134592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write a script to move them all into the same dir, then < 1258134610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for implicit targets at least. Not sure about explicit argets < 1258134612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :targets* < 1258134684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and you know that old style s thingy? < 1258134688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks somewhat like an f < 1258134698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of: all: foo bar < 1258134700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses < 1258134705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all foo bar < 1258134709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the make file < 1258134724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1258134727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes it uses two of them instead < 1258134729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why < 1258134848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, let me take a screenshot... a few seconds < 1258134999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look at http://omploader.org/vMnJoag < 1258135018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cursor there is from linux < 1258135040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is odd, maybe due to screenshot app. Since it doesn't look like that to me < 1258135041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1258135069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? the cursor or the makefile? < 1258135077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile < 1258135099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the window behind is that worksheet < 1258135112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think a cross between a shell and emacs *scratch* buffer < 1258135116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you got it almost right < 1258135212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, ick building the result itself won't work. You will have to print some lines for the user to run in the MPW shell < 1258135212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet < 1258135222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it might be best to make ick too into an MPW tool < 1258135224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch < 1258135238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1258135266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yeah mpw tools can't run other ones. which is why make prints the commands for you to run < 1258135271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why oil will cause a headache < 1258135324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I have no idea about the separate src dir for prebuilt or generated stuff < 1258135358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw the way to make things find the source dir is to add a line like: {ObjDir} {SrcDir} < 1258135360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the top < 1258135370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have several it seems < 1258135397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably worth experimenting with that to figure out if you can have more than one src dir < 1258135408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjDir and SrcDir must of course be defined < 1258136015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw do you know how classic mac os did memory management? It is rather horrible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_memory_management < 1258136164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aha found how to do multiple directories. You just list them all after that old style s < 1258137208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what to call the folder where generated files are placed during the build? < 1258137218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't use the object dir < 1258137221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff like generated *.c < 1258137227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that makes mpw make crash < 1258137237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to use an out-of-tree build anyway < 1258137240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try macos9/build < 1258137244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, macos9:build < 1258137270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and object files? < 1258137284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me has no clue how to go upwards like ".." under *nix and windows < 1258137285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258137292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use :buildobj and :buildc if you need separate dirs < 1258137306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :buildc: you mean < 1258137311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1258137312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a : at the end if it is a directory < 1258137319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it complains < 1258137602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah found out some more details from reading python's macpath.py < 1258137609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : On the Mac, relative paths begin with a colon, < 1258137609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but as a special case, paths with no colons at all are also relative. < 1258137616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else is absolute < 1258137632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and :: means "parent dir" it seems < 1258137637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that should solve some issues < 1258137653 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258138365 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258138466 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258138534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a trackball! < 1258138572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, works nicely? < 1258138585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1258138594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to increase the sensitivity, I think, but I'll leave it for now. < 1258138605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vintage Logitech TrackMan Marble, circa like 1995. Excellent condition. < 1258138612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2→USB adapter. < 1258138631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I hope the pun in the topic isn't disparaging Go. That's Ken Thompson's project, you know. < 1258138640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and it looks great, with some warts < 1258138657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc Gregor said it was horrible yesterday < 1258138673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he's an idiot. It has a good subset of the old Unix team working on it. < 1258138676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, etc. < 1258138688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its design is mostly clean and elegant. < 1258138771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:52:16 BTW, have you heard of "Go" yet? < 1258138771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:52:20 (since you like D) < 1258138774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Go is completely unlike D. < 1258138792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1258138820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:04:14 Since people were talking about Google Go the other day, here is my brief opinion from poking arounda t it a bit: Probably the worst language design in at least a decade. Easily the worst toolchain design in the entire history of toolchains. If I never touch this language again, it will be too soon. < 1258138820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA, you fail < 1258138842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the compiler structure is totally unlike any existing compiler. That's why it's much faster and cleaner — it's the same design as the Plan 9 C compilers. < 1258138849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, not unlike any existing compiler, but meh.) < 1258138883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:05:23 Rugxulo: In terms of "real" languages. It's completely horrible. < 1258138883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are completely off your rocker. Worst language in a decade? Are you absolutely serious? < 1258138933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:32 Rugxulo: Its type system is insane, its toolchain is horrible, its method of "encapsulation" is capitalization, it has no consistent interoperability story, lesse... < 1258138933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its type system is very usual with some exceptions, and some nice things. Its toolchain is VERY VERY VERY fast and simple. Its SYNTAX for encapsulation is capitalisation. < 1258138955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:59 Rugxulo: THE BINARIES ARE NAMED PER FUCKING ARCHITECTURE < 1258138956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:05 6g? 8g? WTF?! < 1258138956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that cross-compiling is the same as regular compiling, an ADVANTAGE. < 1258138976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:26 Fast is not a pro unless we're compiling in 1965. < 1258138976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles the 100k line go code in seconds < 1258138986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IS a pro. < 1258139002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:09:01 It has fork-join-ish concurrency, which makes it "good" in a "hey if we restrict you to a ridiculous degree you won't make mistakes" sense. < 1258139002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has coroutines. < 1258139004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of a sort. < 1258139024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:53 --- topic: set to 'Go is a no-go | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D' by GregorR < 1258139024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did ken thompson rape you or something < 1258139192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha this trackball poops if i spin the wheel really fast < 1258139200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck it, I'm not tracking that" < 1258139465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:26 ais523, I figured it out. For normal applications, all arguments on command line must be valid existing files < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:31 ais523, that sure is a showblocker < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:36 wow, that's weird < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:55 ais523, any way to work around it in ick and such? < 1258139467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:26:22 it'd have to get its command line arguments some other way < 1258139467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just create the files beforehand, duh < 1258139469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, etc. < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And its design is mostly clean and elegant. < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clean and elegant?!?!? < 1258140177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactically clean maybe, semantically nonsense. < 1258140187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Gregor and I will be outraged and call it the puke's dog because it is not what I am used to! I am not required to provide arguments, only RAGE! < 1258140195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEAR ME ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR < 1258140206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I provided a bunch of arguments when I was arguing against it yesterday. < 1258140213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't, actually. < 1258140216 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258140218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just called various aspects of it stupid. < 1258140232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Their half-assed structural subtyping is no replacement for inheritance. Inheritance is useless. < 1258140239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1258140248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance isn't useless rather X-D < 1258140257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance is bad, and before you argue against that plz google some bit, especially c2 wiki. < 1258140277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't half-assed, it's minimalist. It looks stupid because minimalism does look stupid. < 1258140281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix looked stupid. < 1258140295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being no replacement is your opinion; clearly they are having no issues. < 1258140331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants some real description and criticism of Go, http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/11/googles_new_language_go.php and http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/11/the_go_i_forgot_concurrency_an.php are good reads. < 1258140357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not worth my time arguing this, particularly not on #esoteric or with you, so I'm not going to. < 1258140386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your arguments continue to stun. Hey, if I'd said that to AnMaster a wild pack of bears would be mauling me round about now. < 1258140391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny that < 1258140425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you had the chance to give us your interesting arguments: "It's horrible" "It sucks" "That compiler naming thing is stupid" "The toolchain sucks". < 1258140433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ponder them. < 1258140813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=4a3f6bbb5f0c6021279ccb3c23558b3c480d995f is such an epic event in the history of computing that anything it's part of cannot possibly be wrong. < 1258140962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258141000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To idiots who don't get it: It's a change by Ken Thompson. [[Ken Thompson was once asked what he would do differently if he were redesigning the UNIX system. His reply: "I'd spell creat with an e."]]) < 1258141049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ads.stackoverflow.com/ads/MostWanted_728x90_Static.png ;; by whom?! < 1258141064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some of those files would be illegal file names. Oh and there are some other issues with it too < 1258141077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmph < 1258141179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to emulate the scroll wheel in os x
< 1258141201 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258141227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: think I'll pwn at Enigma with this trackball? :P < 1258141238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258141251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recently switched to Chrome
< 1258141254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a level that requires precision < 1258141257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a good browser < 1258141260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better than firefox < 1258141276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like it better if, when switching to a tab, the tab wasn't momentarily blank < 1258141280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I found an issue discussing it < 1258141283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't < 1258141287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll look into that < 1258141287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix your computer < 1258141299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not an implicit rule for those bin2c generated files? < 1258141313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=020198aa328835c0&hl=en < 1258141317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I like being explicit < 1258141326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it easier to track everything that's going on < 1258141328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, code repetition < 1258141333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eh, wfm :P < 1258141347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1258141353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for... < 1258141356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1258141369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries the memory-model=high thing
< 1258141371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay need to reboot for this scrolling thing bye < 1258141377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258141388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1258141396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just added it, and Chrome seems faster in general < 1258141633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does oil only depend on the generated file oil-oil.c? < 1258141649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258141683 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258141683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw / is valid in directory names on classic mac os < 1258141687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and file names < 1258141701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As on OS X, though not :. < 1258141711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is just turned into : for the BSD subsystem. < 1258141717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well : isn't here of course < 1258141726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: isn't allowed because it'd become /. < 1258141732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather < 1258141736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because old volume-style things are still supported < 1258141738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTunes uses them < 1258141738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / is just turned into : for the BSD subsystem. <-- seems backwards < 1258141739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1258141747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's so you can name things with / in them < 1258141754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Foo and/or bar" < 1258141762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's talk < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1258141768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1258141768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can < 1258141769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1258141769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1258141771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll < 1258141778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful. < 1258141782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1258141789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is annoying. < 1258141793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try Enigma. < 1258141825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A level that requires precision plz < 1258141896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1258141938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI/#15 < 1258142001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or V/#95 I suppose, that one's rather infamous < 1258142008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does require loads of precision and hardly any thought otherwise < 1258142014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this trackball is too good to make me better at Enigma... picking up all my little tremors and the like. < 1258142015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258142065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 requires speed < 1258142066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get over ramps < 1258142103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the hardest dexterity levels I know < 1258142141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil fails to build < 1258142146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the error? < 1258142171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get "Error: illegal combination of types" in the MPW header SizeTDef,h < 1258142176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a good deal for £20.07 shipped < 1258142184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ,h < 1258142187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now in love with Chrome
< 1258142189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258142190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.h < 1258142191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they make it use mac os filetypes? :( < 1258142193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh < 1258142196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: good < 1258142198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't copy and paste from sheepshaver < 1258142202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, you like a good thing < 1258142203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully, this won't cause issues with other programs, though < 1258142214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: old mac os had no file extensions, so i thought they were emulated with , < 1258142217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're being emulated with . < 1258142223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real filetypes would be more fun < 1258142247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah no. The creator is 'MPS ' (without the quotes, with the space) and the file type is 'TEXT' (again without the quotes) < 1258142266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creator 'MPS ', file type 'CHED' < 1258142271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code being 'CSRC' < 1258142275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can actually close other tabs without watching the browser freeze1 < 1258142279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great < 1258142281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CHDR is also ok for headers, whatever) < 1258142284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor doesn't display line numbers < 1258142285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258142287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258142289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does mine < 1258142295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it does at the bottom < 1258142303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this one doesn't < 1258142311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can hold down ctrl+t for 10 seconds with chrome without it lagging much < 1258142312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1258142313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins counting the 16 lines from the top the error was on
< 1258142324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258142325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was: < 1258142330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and then look at the most suspicious line < 1258142332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int size_t; < 1258142334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it didn't like < 1258142335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun how cpp fucks up everything innit. < 1258142337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth < 1258142347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change it to < 1258142351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned size_t; < 1258142353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I know why < 1258142354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it'll work < 1258142357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was due to config.h < 1258142402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to `unsigned int' if does not define. */ < 1258142403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* #undef size_t */ < 1258142405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258142411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no sys/types.h < 1258142413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I did define it < 1258142420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it does exist in stdlib.h and such < 1258142422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258142429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just #include < 1258142459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you make it check in stddef.h instead? That is the standard place for size_t < 1258142469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys/types.h is POSIX specific < 1258142474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you want this trackball? it's absolutely wonderful, and with a shallow learning curve, it's just that i think my hands are too small :P < 1258142481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX specific? Hope you use it in cfunge! < 1258142482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: send a bug report to the autoconf people, then < 1258142486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you pay for postage? < 1258142490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll make that change sometime later if I remember < 1258142493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... yes? < 1258142503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the catch < 1258142512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I thought you meant < 1258142516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the UK people pay for postage < 1258142516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258142519 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258142529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not paying postage :-P < 1258142533 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about writing operating systems? What is the code for loading data from the boot disk into RAM? < 1258142550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slv %r, ($pla) < 1258142552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttr < 1258142603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which programs depends on config.h and which on bconfig.h? < 1258142632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff that's only used during the build depends on bconfig.h < 1258142634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as oil and bin2c < 1258142638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a page on the wiki called [[Sammich]] but it seems it so far is only a example program, do you think anything should be done with that? < 1258142643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else depends on config.h < 1258142658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. So only oil and bin2c? You used "such that" < 1258142663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hopefully the author would come back later < 1258142669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: those are the only two I can think of right now < 1258142681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, claiming that size_t existed in sys/types.h worked. oil compiled < 1258142693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK. < 1258142697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's ergonomic (fits your whole hand!) and has a 3D scrollball! All you have to do is configure your computer to do it. And the clever thing is that the trackball IS the scrollball! No moving your hand! Um, okay, so technically it's just making your system emulate a scroll wheel with the trackball; shut up. < 1258142699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION test runs oil with no arguments on nix to see what happens
< 1258142726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, does not give an error. No good then < 1258142731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that will lock up MPW < 1258142732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to give it an input file, IIRC < 1258142741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have not yet figured out how to send EOF < 1258142765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for left hand? < 1258142777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right hand. < 1258142790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh. I'm using left atm for my mouse. < 1258142791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say you use a mouse in both, so quit whining. :P < 1258142804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed I do < 1258142810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it's vintage! Circa 1995! < 1258142814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the oooooooooooooold Logitech logo. < 1258142842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that old one; the one before that. < 1258142859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already started writing a operating system, I might call it 4RM, or maybe it should be called CHAOS instead (for "CHAOS Has An Operating System") < 1258142864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goodlogo.com/images/logos/small/logitech_logo_2485.gif < 1258142866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one. < 1258142884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, um, has screws in it for easy user-servicability? < 1258142889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an easy way to pop out the trackball! < 1258142895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a quite-long PS/2 cord! < 1258143003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where does oil put the files? Current directory won't work. And changing current directory seems to confuse stuff < 1258143013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thumb sure is getting good exercise. < 1258143017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's current directory < 1258143029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It, um, has screws in it for easy user-servicability? <-- very nice < 1258143031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, meh < 1258143043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's refreshingly non-user-hostile. < 1258143063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was expensive as new? < 1258143066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could modify the code so that a particular #definition in bconfig.h put them somewhere else < 1258143073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope < 1258143080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what the hell... < 1258143082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty average price for a niche mouse, I imagine. < 1258143087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say £25? < 1258143090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. < 1258143091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably less, even. < 1258143091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258143098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1258143099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer stuff was cheap in 1995. < 1258143153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically new, anyway; it came from some sort of warehouse and the only imperfections are a slight crack in the plastic around some hole that I don't know what it is (barely noticeable) and some sticky stuff on a small part of the end of the PS/2 cord. < 1258143168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it might need some lubrication to work perfectly, not sure. < 1258143228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has dots on the wheel???? I CANNOT SELL THIS ANY MORE < 1258143237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No no wait! Convenient indentations on the three buttons help finger placement. < 1258143338 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258143366 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-79-2.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258143399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dots? < 1258143418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't like that trackball? < 1258143419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little black spots on the red ball in an intriguing pattern. It's so that the optomechanical (I think) magic can work. < 1258143432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it! I just need to grow my hand to use it properly, I think :P < 1258143442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just wait a few years then? < 1258143452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely it will work perfectly in a few years then < 1258143465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, that would work. < 1258143465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the (Microsoft, and therefore Logitech) trackball I have at home has a red ball whose undersurface is made out of little rings of red < 1258143472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Funky. < 1258143474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has a plastic covering on top of that, though) < 1258143475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1258143480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft, and thterefore Logitech? < 1258143482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*therefore < 1258143492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What crack-smoking planet are you on? xD < 1258143497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Microsoft-branded mice and trackballs are made by Logitech, IIRC < 1258143499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they used to be < 1258143502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really/ < 1258143505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really? < 1258143506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just they have the Microsoft logo on < 1258143509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "used to" < 1258143510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be why they're good. < 1258143535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my first MS mice had the logitech logo on the bottom of it. in small print. My current one doesn't < 1258143535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia (LOGO) Forever < 1258143537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck off, Wikipedia. < 1258143538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for all I know they still are < 1258143545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Offffffffffffff < 1258143556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1258143567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Wikipedia pages. < 1258143584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someone found out when they opened up a mouse and there was a logitech logo on the circuit board < 1258143589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what type of trackball is it? thumb? < 1258143592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is on a more recent mouse that didn't have the logitech logo anywhere visible) < 1258143594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258143594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fingertips? < 1258143599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb trackball < 1258143601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right or left? < 1258143604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1258143605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a right hand < 1258143615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because everyone in my family's right-handed) < 1258143621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour? (basically equivalent to age) < 1258143626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grey < 1258143633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light or dark < 1258143635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark < 1258143640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent then < 1258143644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000s < 1258143648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sounds about right < 1258143650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or slightly before, maybe 1998 at earlier < 1258143652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*earliest < 1258143680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil sure takes a long time, or is locked up. < 1258143683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's new enough that the computer that was bought at the same time has an Intel integrated 3D graphics card < 1258143696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it shouldn't take /that/ long < 1258143696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, then it'll be the latest model, probably < 1258143699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it certainly doesn't ever leave yeild the cpu. < 1258143702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody makes *new* trackballs any more < 1258143704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard to find out < 1258143711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bison/yacc-generated compiler < 1258143722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mouse can be moved, the spinning waiting thing is frozen though < 1258143737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 40 seconds so far < 1258143746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you help me get c-intercal working on macintosh system 6? < 1258143747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something wrong? < 1258143763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it shouldn't be doing that < 1258143773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I've been helping AnMaster do it for mac os 9 < 1258143794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. System 6 is far better, and very different. < 1258143797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have it part working. bin2c works perfectly. < 1258143806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macintosh System 6 is not Mac OS 9. < 1258143813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take your uncouth modernity elsewhere, heathen. < 1258143813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I build stuff as MPW tools. Should be portable to 68k < 1258143830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW is available for System 6, I think. < 1258143832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh except that long long isn't supported, and I have no clue about the type sizes < 1258143833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously. < 1258143838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is different. < 1258143845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads PDP-11 emulator
< 1258143853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xkcdb.com/?6753 < 1258143855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well sure. < 1258143861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 6 is from such an era that it can only address 8 MiB of RAM. < 1258143869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is oilout00.c. It is empty < 1258143876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems dubious < 1258143880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you accept both \r and \n or only \n? < 1258143881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its standard UI is entirely black and white. < 1258143884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's almost certainly gone wrong < 1258143892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Sys6screenshotbusy.png ;; Anything like Mac OS 9? Didn't think so < 1258143899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think the C compiler does some sort of \r \n swapping for IO by default < 1258143905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rules for line endings with OIL are that \n is always accepted, \r\n may leave stray \r in the output but is otherwise accepted < 1258143910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somewhat like windows does \n <-> \r\n < 1258143918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: classic macintosh is just \r < 1258143925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, and I read files in binary mode < 1258143928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could explain al ot < 1258143929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but MrC swaps \r and \n < 1258143930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a lot < 1258143934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mister C! < 1258143936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even for binary-mode files? < 1258143937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no such thing iirc? < 1258143955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fopen("filename","rb") < 1258143955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I thought that too. But it actually means Macintosh RISC C compiler < 1258143967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC is such a lovely name. < 1258143968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISK < 1258143970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like... < 1258143971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daring. < 1258143979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm unable to locate docs atm. So I don't know if b affects anything < 1258143982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This architecture? Exciting. MACINTOSH RISK C COMPILER < 1258143990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is it causes the program to read \r as \r < 1258143999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that doesn't work? < 1258144002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll therefore want to change the newlines to \n in the original idiotism.oil source code < 1258144007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're as \r atm < 1258144020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or modify oil.y to be able to handle classic Mac newliens < 1258144021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*newlines < 1258144022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they should be \n due to having just copied the file < 1258144029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258144036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try changing the newlines to some other format to see what happens < 1258144063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me open it in BBEdit < 1258144076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit started on System Software 6! < 1258144079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIX POWER! < 1258144080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit lite claims it is unix line endings < 1258144087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you happen to have the non-lite version? < 1258144098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258144101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe for System 6. :P < 1258144101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1258144111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have bbedit lite 4.6 < 1258144120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I have been able to find and extract < 1258144123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the google < 1258144129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a later lite version but the download was corrupt < 1258144132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did... < 1258144140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay :P < 1258144174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you have better luck however < 1258144269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, debugging is near impossible on this. Since I have to restart the system when it locks up. Can't get the key combo for macsbug to work < 1258144278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was cmd-alt-power button iirc < 1258144286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I have no way of pressing < 1258144311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you do, just press keys until it happens < 1258144346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't. I checked in the key mapping file for sheepshaver. There is no such mapping < 1258144353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUN < 1258144524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you think you'll get C-INTERCAL running on an emulated Mac OS 6 before or after I get it running on an emulated PDP-11? < 1258144538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after, I'm terminally lazy < 1258144554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the ball seems to have lubricated itself. Maybe my skin oils helped. < 1258144873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how to make oil print some sort of trace info? < 1258144884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like processed lines or such < 1258144891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by telling Bison to and regenerating the file < 1258144893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is generated code... < 1258144902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i wish this scrollwheel emulator didn't move the pointer < 1258144902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you tell bison that hm < 1258144911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't stop when the pointer reaches a screen edge < 1258145472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of a silly scrollweheel emulator < 1258145486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to emulate the click-and-drag hand tool in e.g. pdf readers < 1258145503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i inversed the axes so it's basically a hold-middle-button-for-scrollbar thiingy < 1258145504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thingy < 1258145508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for, you know, those two flaws < 1258145599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm becoming better at using this trackball, I think. < 1258145687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird having full mouse movement when clicking. < 1258145707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does PDP-11 UNIX v5 use "chdir" not "cd"? < 1258145713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chdir() < 1258145731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does convickt use those bin2c generated files? < 1258145742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, it uses the originals < 1258145747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generated files are linked into the standard library < 1258145748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? How? < 1258145754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld < 1258145756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1258145757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by fopening them and looking at the contents < 1258145760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you think? < 1258145766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/5PUVF.jpg < 1258145767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the generated files are .c files < 1258145774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're compiled then linked in the normal manner < 1258145777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why does it do it that way rather than use those generated c files? < 1258145787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-containedness < 1258145803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, convickt looks at the .bin files (so you can add more) < 1258145815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could add more anyway but ok < 1258145819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas libick.a contains a compiled version so the resulting programs are self-contained < 1258145825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on the fly though) < 1258145831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it needed in libick.a? < 1258145839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O, I gueess < 1258145841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1258145843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so that it's possible for generated programs to do I/O < 1258145877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but isn't that all in ASCII? < 1258145895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258145906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how am I going to shut this ancient UNIX down? < 1258145911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to have any of the usual methods < 1258145911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kill init < 1258145916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was just about to try htat < 1258145917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use init 1 < 1258145919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258145921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init 0, maybe < 1258145930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is your emulation environment set up? < 1258145935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very much intrigued < 1258145938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I killed init, and it's still running < 1258145943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the simulation < 1258145943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, PDP-11? You didn't try ick on it before? < 1258145946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas init itself is dead < 1258145947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I didn't < 1258145948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: done init 1 already? < 1258145951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which clearly needs correcting < 1258145954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, heh < 1258145957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use the shell? < 1258145957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not entirely sure where init is < 1258145961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, sh still works < 1258145967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find / -name init < 1258145970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there no find? < 1258145970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 1 < 1258145979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-name: not found < 1258145997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: not found < 1258145998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... < 1258146011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find init < 1258146020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find / < 1258146027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, is this gui or command line thing? < 1258146027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I just control-Ded my login shell < 1258146030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to have frozen < 1258146033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's command-line < 1258146034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit me up with ssh and i'll try and get it to shutdown < 1258146044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((((also play around with it)))) < 1258146079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I killed the emulator with SIGTERM, that seems to have worked < 1258146090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I'll do it properly! :( < 1258146134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, issue. You depend on unistd.h in convickt. You do not use the config.h check for it < 1258146142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well caught < 1258146147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much do i have to pay you :| < 1258146147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on line 29 in convickt.c < 1258146158 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258146160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: download and run the emulator yourself if you like < 1258146168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it comes with unix? < 1258146176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258146181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, has a separate download for it < 1258146184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1258146187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ < 1258146195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trailing edge, heh < 1258146199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"software kits" contains an image of a system installed with UNIX < 1258146202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks pdp-11s are much older than the trailing edge < 1258146205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three, in fact < 1258146216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If your host system is Alpha/VMS," < 1258146218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what in unistd.h is it that you use in that file? < 1258146221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations! You don't need a vintage system emulator. < 1258146224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure offhand < 1258146224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it is a blocker atm < 1258146233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take it out and see < 1258146233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove it and see what the error is? < 1258146243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're using V5 unix? < 1258146245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258146247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking < 1258146250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice and old < 1258146258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V1 would be nicer of course :P < 1258146260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if ick runs on that, it probably runs on v6 and v7 < 1258146261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death to SysV! < 1258146268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysv changed a lot < 1258146276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it invented runlevels, for instance < 1258146279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so scratch my `init 1` idea < 1258146280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, file correctly identified unix_v5_rk.dsk as a "PDP-11 executable") < 1258146282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm only gets a warning then < 1258146284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about line 90 < 1258146288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the warning? < 1258146291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1258146296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258146300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SysV is 5 < 1258146302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh just about assignment in if < 1258146306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix System V, commonly abbreviated SysV (and usually pronounced — though rarely written — as "System 5"), is one of the versions of the Unix operating system. It was originally developed by American Telephone & Telegraph (AT&T) and first released in 1983. Four major versions of System V were released, termed Releases 1, 2, 3 and 4. System V Release 4, or SVR4, was commercially the most successful version, being the result of an effort, marketed as Unix < 1258146306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unification, which solicited the collaboration of the major Unix vendors. It was the source of several commercial common Unix features. < 1258146308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so not related < 1258146310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what V5 is, then < 1258146311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also make a backup of the .dsk file, it's used to persist data in < 1258146316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no V release 5... < 1258146326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're releases of System I, or whatevef < 1258146328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whatever < 1258146340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt that < 1258146345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(!(ick_datadir=getenv("ICKDATADIR"))) < 1258146347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that line < 1258146358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, for getenv < 1258146369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is stdlib.h says my man page < 1258146372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks very ifdef-guardable < 1258146379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it's stdlib.h, just use that instead < 1258146380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Version_7 < 1258146388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, V7 is the first release to widely escape ma bell < 1258146389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... read what I said above < 1258146392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " ais523, oh just about assignment in if" < 1258146397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the mentioned line < 1258146400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: V7 looks like the best old unix < 1258146406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5 isn't even mentioned in Wikipedia... < 1258146409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just V6 < 1258146409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's likely to have the most features < 1258146410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For historical relationships, just look at http://www.levenez.com/unix/unix_a4.pdf or something. < 1258146418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V6 is 1975... < 1258146432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7 != SysV, just to clarify < 1258146433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think I'll target V7 < 1258146435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I think < 1258146437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it introduced lex and yacc < 1258146439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the next few files for convickt crashed the emulator < 1258146441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll be able to do a complete install < 1258146445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how boring :P < 1258146447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after spitting errors < 1258146457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too quick to see the errors though < 1258146457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: less boring if you can do the whole thing, rather than relying on prebuilts < 1258146499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i put the unix files? < 1258146502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a separate dir? < 1258146514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the clc-cset file crashes the emulator when compiling < 1258146515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP10 or PDP11, btw? < 1258146518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after some errors < 1258146521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: PDP-11 < 1258146525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From unix_a4.pdf, one path of descent goes V5 -> V6 -> USG 1.0 -> CB UNIX 1...3 -> System III -> System IV -> System V. < 1258146527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to see what errors due to the speed < 1258146533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "make" yes? < 1258146534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simh < 1258146542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might try this on a real old mac. Should be a bit more stable < 1258146545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well V7 isn't SysV. < 1258146554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /bin/exit is an /actual program/? htf does that work? < 1258146565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ofc not, or Caldera wouldn't have released it under a BSD-style licence < 1258146580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, this is before they became tSCOg... < 1258146584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kill(meinproctree()->parent) < 1258146587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how /bin/exit iwll work < 1258146592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will < 1258146609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sysv was developed concurrently with unix up to the tenth edition... < 1258146617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a /bin/cd= < 1258146619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -std=c99 -U__STRICT_ANSI__ -g -lrt -lm -D_GNU_SOURCE -I . PDP1/pdp1_lp.c PDP1/pdp1_cpu.c PDP1/pdp1_stddev.c PDP1/pdp1_sys.c PDP1/pdp1_dt.c PDP1/pdp1_drm.c PDP1/pdp1_clk.c PDP1/pdp1_dcs.c scp.c sim_console.c sim_fio.c sim_timer.c sim_sock.c sim_tmxr.c sim_ether.c sim_tape.c -I PDP1 -o BIN/pdp1 < 1258146620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: library not found for -lrt < 1258146620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1258146625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* exit -- end runcom */ < 1258146627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() { < 1258146628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seek(0, 0, 2); < 1258146630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258146631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many new features were introduced in Version 7. < 1258146631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming tools: lex, yacc, lint, pcc, and make. < 1258146638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an incredibly short program < 1258146641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, methinks targeting pre-V7 is crazy < 1258146645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it makes no sense < 1258146655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end runcom = end running command, duh < 1258146664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1258146667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got kill to kill itself < 1258146674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suicide(1) < 1258146675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by guessing what process number it'd be allocated < 1258146677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1258146679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oi, help me compile simh :-P < 1258146690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mkdir BIN < 1258146692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make < 1258146697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all I needed to do < 1258146701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258146706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no -lrt < 1258146710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the problem < 1258146712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it supposed to be < 1258146714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try dropping it < 1258146717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if it works < 1258146720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1258146721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what OS are you on? < 1258146722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since sometimes that stuff is in libc < 1258146723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258146725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258146726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropping < 1258146727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that sense < 1258146728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: osx < 1258146731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, bsd < 1258146746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: export OSTYPE < 1258146749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make < 1258146757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ifneq (,$(findstring darwin,$(OSTYPE))) < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OS_CCDEFS = -D_GNU_SOURCE < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OS_CCDEFS = -lrt -lm -D_GNU_SOURCE < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : endif < 1258146759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to the docs, you need that export command on OSX) < 1258146762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is for "real time" stuff. like clock_gettime() and other high res and/or low latency interfaces < 1258146765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it never sets OSTYPE < 1258146769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets OSTYPE=darwin
< 1258146780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make OSTYPE=darwin did it < 1258146793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1258146793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it mentioned in the readme? < 1258146794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258146805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't bother reading it, this package looks really crufty :P < 1258146809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, compatible, i guess < 1258146824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0readme_38.txt" isn't exactly hope-inspiring < 1258146831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could have used autotools. You wouldn't have needed to check then. < 1258146842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also have done it entirely differently. < 1258146847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False dichotomy heyoooooooo < 1258146888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's version 3.8 < 1258146893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still < 1258146894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 0 is to sort it to the start of the list < 1258146965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads the output of "help" and goes "._."
< 1258146977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at something unixdiskname.dsk is what I need to do first, I think < 1258146980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go < 1258146994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : False dichotomy heyoooooooo <-- of course. I was joking... < 1258147007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh. < 1258147014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you start doing more funny jokes? :P < 1258147024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what're the commands you need? < 1258147036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. That would be breech of contract. < 1258147036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/pdf/simh_swre.pdf < 1258147050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *look of disapproval* < 1258147054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *breach < 1258147072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://imgur.com/5PUVF.jpg < 1258147084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn this pdf is loading slowly < 1258147093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey safari, why'd you gotta crash like dat < 1258147094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for UNIX v7, where \ represents newline, it's set cpu u18 \ set rl0 RL02 \ att rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk \ boot rl0 \ @boot \ : rl(0,0)rl2unix < 1258147109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the @ and : are prompts < 1258147118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> cpu u18 < 1258147118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command < 1258147127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing BIN/pdp11 < 1258147142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just skip the cpu line < 1258147148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess calling pdp11 handles that < 1258147167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't skip it < 1258147169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's needed < 1258147179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work. < 1258147190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, isn't that for the main simh binary? to select pdp11? < 1258147193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, i t's _rk < 1258147194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1258147203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that's for the pdp11 binary to select what sort of pdp11 < 1258147210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cding to BIN and then trying again, as it works for me < 1258147242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't work, and cpu isn't listed in help. < 1258147246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, are you calling? < 1258147287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "set cpu u18" < 1258147289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "cpu u18" < 1258147295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258147295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1258147309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to copy files onto the filesystem ther
< 1258147311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1258147333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> set cpu u18 < 1258147333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabling XQ < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> set rl0 RL02 < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> att rl0 unix_v5_rk.dsk < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> boot rl0 < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@boot < 1258147336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1258147338 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258147338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for : being a prompt < 1258147343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's strange < 1258147353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the instructions are different for v5 < 1258147357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type unix at the @ prompt < 1258147359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than boot < 1258147378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then give the username as root, no password < 1258147378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other instructions different? < 1258147380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the cpu line? < 1258147405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu line's the same, but you're supposed to use rk and rk0 not rl and rl0 < 1258147415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would explain the filenames < 1258147426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258147429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RK02, as well? < 1258147431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of RL02 < 1258147443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't need that set line at all < 1258147443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258147472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set cpu u18 \ att rk0 unix_v5_rk.dsk \ boot rk \ @unix \ login: root < 1258147477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1258147481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all V5'd up < 1258147482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in? < 1258147486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck is this slow < 1258147499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar backspace < 1258147508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ^H backspaces on screen but not in reality < 1258147519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, the kernel is actually called /unix < 1258147535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: changes to the filesystem persist < 1258147543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i copied to pristine.dsk < 1258147552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm keeping the originals in the .zip files < 1258147566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! /usr/bin actually has files owned by the user bin < 1258147568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since /usr = /home < 1258147572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, V5 has yacc < 1258147575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v7 has man < 1258147580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shut your face with your V7 crap :( < 1258147589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmoooooooooooon < 1258147596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5 has the best cc ever, so cryptic < 1258147601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc -h < 1258147603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _maain < 1258147605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*_main < 1258147616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, and i still have an a.out < 1258147632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if you hit backspace enter, it cancels hte command < 1258147675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there isn't a way to kill INIT, it seems < 1258147681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kill init < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ps < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No swap < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 0 +??^??~??[??J[R??S? ????? R? ? < 1258147686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 1 /etc/init < 1258147692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you send it SIGHUP, it drops to single-user mode < 1258147693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting use of /etc. < 1258147710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is before the FHS was invented, I think < 1258147715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1258147720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FHS is Linuxcrap. < 1258147724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting is in a good way. < 1258147724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that process 0 looks suspicious, but I'll chalk it up to a simulator hiccup < 1258147750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FHS has one good thing about it: it is *a* standard. < 1258147766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, not everyone supports said standard, so that doesn't do you much good. :P < 1258147778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standards are overrated < 1258147782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ps seems to be broken < 1258147789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints "No namelist" regardless of what arguments you give it < 1258147793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# /etc/init < 1258147794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match < 1258147795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258147796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# /etc/init < 1258147797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/mtab: non existent < 1258147797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match < 1258147810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hands < 1258147812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hangs < 1258147842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these systems were designed to be turned off by pressing the off switch < 1258147848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like DOS was < 1258147851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do this! < 1258147855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258147859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what number is hup again? < 1258147862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1258147875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -1 1, catchy < 1258147880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's single user mode; nothing happened < 1258147887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and init is still there < 1258147892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs sync
< 1258147894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good practice, you know < 1258147906 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258147912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what filesystem this is
< 1258147933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RK? < 1258147938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or RL for you < 1258147950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes: /etc/umount
< 1258147954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be useful for shutting down < 1258147964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously halting won't happen, but I think I can get rid of the unix < 1258147984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Playing with UNIX v5? < 1258147989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1258147991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, the v7 one comes with some mail in the mailbox < 1258147999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says "Secret mail has arrived." < 1258148006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258148010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can control-D the single user mode to get multiple-user mode) < 1258148025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and root's password is root; it was the second password I tried) < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls /dev < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null < 1258148037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tty8 < 1258148039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ain't no disks therre... < 1258148041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1258148049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I must admit, I'm curious: is it possible to get any vaguely modern software working on there? < 1258148054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cat /mailbox < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From root Fri Mar 21 12:15:23 1975 < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo root < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1258148061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we're planning to get C-INTERCAL working on there < 1258148064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, ais523 is working on V7 (not SysV) and C-INTERCAL < 1258148065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU! < 1258148066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Spiffy. < 1258148066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. < 1258148068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so insane. < 1258148080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have the source code for uudecode handy? < 1258148084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something simple, like, oh, modern PCC?) < 1258148102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, /usr/c has a bunch of source and binaries < 1258148116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey now, with V7 you can have ORIGINAL pcc! < 1258148121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with V5? Original authentic cc, bitch. < 1258148122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://www.nr.com/utils/uudecode.c.txt < 1258148124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under BSD4 < 1258148129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a copyright date of 1983 < 1258148132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks suitably old < 1258148153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no return type declarations < 1258148157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think you'll be fine! < 1258148169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Modern PCC is "original". Just maintained. :P < 1258148176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258148181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc has been updated for decades < 1258148190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses cat to transfer the source of uudecode
< 1258148196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1258148203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to guess where the disk device is? < 1258148208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this emulation is slo < 1258148209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow < 1258148213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably about original speed < 1258148218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may actually be able to build some GNU programs on there. < 1258148219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, /usr/sys has headers in it < 1258148222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: faster, i'm sure < 1258148227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I won't. :P < 1258148229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using /usr/root as my home directory < 1258148241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ~ is / < 1258148244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cat's catting so slowly I can read the individual characters as they arrive < 1258148250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least some of them have shockingly ugly code for the sake of being able to build on K&R C compilers) < 1258148252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because your mailbox goes there < 1258148254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but that's a really fugly location to use < 1258148255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm those were warnings not errors. And a real mac didn't crash < 1258148262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you tested on a real mac? < 1258148274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suspect that's primarily GCC these days. < 1258148276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes an old first model ibook < 1258148277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep mistaking this for DOS because it's such a pain to use and using dir(1)... < 1258148295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's chdir, not cd, doesn't help < 1258148300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which has a very lound whining harddrive (was less loud when it was new) < 1258148305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes some code with ED!
< 1258148309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ed! Ed is the standard editor! < 1258148310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I doubt could build *on* a v5 machine -- nowhere near enough RAM. < 1258148320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, flat battery, glitchy power connector < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ed < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258148323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this program seems to predate the # key < 1258148325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well guess why I prefer emulator < 1258148330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite < 1258148337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, cat ignored all #s in my input < 1258148340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of emulator thing? < 1258148346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignores all special chars < 1258148348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including @ < 1258148348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1258148352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably emulator thing < 1258148356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the prompt IS #... < 1258148363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "fatal error: Unable to open ick_lose.h"? < 1258148363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# echo 'ab#cd' < 1258148365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acd < 1258148369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is obviously the backspace character < 1258148369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in uncommon.c < 1258148372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any clue? < 1258148376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could set it to anything you want back then, after all < 1258148377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258148385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where is ick_lose.h? < 1258148390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, no puts???? < 1258148401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I transferred the file by catting < 1258148404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls a#b < 1258148404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b not found < 1258148405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1258148415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this thing predates vi < 1258148419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258148421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is a BSD thing < 1258148425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix ignored it even after it was invented < 1258148425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah include issue < 1258148426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so, probably < 1258148426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use ed < 1258148434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll have to remember how ed works now... < 1258148452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ed is the standard text editor." < 1258148452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c /lib/crt0.o < 1258148452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply defined: /lib/crt0.o;savr5 < 1258148453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _puts < 1258148455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that idea < 1258148458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use a to insert < 1258148460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. to stop inserting < 1258148461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w foo < 1258148463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D to quit < 1258148465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is print < 1258148467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ and $ work < 1258148470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// searches < 1258148478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do +1 and -1 to move around < 1258148480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do you < 1258148484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and s/// works too, doesn't it/ < 1258148488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1258148489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knoows < 1258148491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knows < 1258148496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I wonder how to type a literal # character < 1258148499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll use ??- < 1258148501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ??= < 1258148511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually having a legit reason to use trigraphs would amaze me, but why not? < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c /lib/libca.##.a < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _puts < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it really does predate puts < 1258148520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the short names of the libs < 1258148525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-la -lc -lf -ly? fuck yeah! < 1258148555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, it has printf < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ed < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main (##() { < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("hello world\n"); < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1258148570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w hello.c < 1258148572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37 < 1258148574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c < 1258148576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ./he##a.out < 1258148578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1258148580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# a.out < 1258148582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1258148584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can program, me < 1258148586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for the flood, I'm just happy) < 1258148588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like . being in PATH < 1258148590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258148594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then a security flaw was, uh, something that it doesn't mean today < 1258148632 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258148639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems to ignore $ < 1258148640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Stallman specifically not add a wheel group to GNU su on the basis that he thought that people should have a chance to wrest control of a computer away from its current admins by guessing the root password? < 1258148650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably < 1258148652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1258148657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also had no password on unix for years < 1258148666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that computer allow remote logins/ < 1258148677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably once telnet was invented < 1258148680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he openly invited people to use his account < 1258148694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ages, the easiest way to get online was to dial into the AI lab at MIT and log in as RMS. < 1258148707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course; telnet is modern < 1258148711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone lines fuck yeah! < 1258148721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine many more people used the RMS account without knowing what "RMS" meant < 1258148724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode.c:40: External definition syntax < 1258148727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf does that mean? < 1258148728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine. < 1258148733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "extern"? < 1258148736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use cc, not pcc < 1258148738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even more cryptic < 1258148741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd bet RMS got backronymmed < 1258148749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote Management System < 1258148754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it doesn't like my trigraph < 1258148757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, that was C89 < 1258148764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You have *trigraphs*? < 1258148776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I trigraphed the program I was sending because the # character was being ignored < 1258148776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone backronym RMS into something resembling "open-access" < 1258148781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1258148786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remote m'login sir? :P < 1258148794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just write a c program that prints out # < 1258148797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with putchar < 1258148798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258148820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I could probably write a c program that did s/??=/#/ < 1258148830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or a C99 preprocessor. < 1258148856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stty erase '^D'
< 1258148860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's wrong... < 1258148864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stty erase '^X'
< 1258148873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't run oil, but now I have something in oilout00.c on mac < 1258148877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITHOUT running it < 1258148880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is on the real mac < 1258148887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258148894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the raise(SIGSEGV) stuff in it? < 1258148895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for < 1258148906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards compatibility < 1258148930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258148942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that always used to segfault < 1258148950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was no reason to change the behaviour when we fixed the actual bug < 1258148966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'^X' isn't accepted < 1258148972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you on v5? < 1258148975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was by v7 < 1258148981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# echo ^ls < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :num.c < 1258148983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1258149006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kill character, probably < 1258149011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that deletes the whole line < 1258149016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed < 1258149048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sed aaaaaaaaaaa < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cat hello.c < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :num; < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){ < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num2; < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num=rand(); < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num2=num; < 1258149113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%d\n",num2); < 1258149115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258149117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c < 1258149119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5: Lvalue required < 1258149121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7: num2 undefined < 1258149125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1258149127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need "auto num2;" in a function, don't you? < 1258149152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you prefer "int" < 1258149157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no sed aaaaaaaaaaa <-- use ed < 1258149171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am < 1258149173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: meh! < 1258149185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "register"? < 1258149195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't, you'll probably run out of registers < 1258149197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /usr/c is the c compiler sources < 1258149202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C compilers were rather literal back then < 1258149202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even "static" would work there < 1258149202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... upsettingly moddern, the code < 1258149206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not olde times at all, really < 1258149212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from its simplicity < 1258149222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 stty erase '^X' <-- what does that mean < 1258149232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode.c:98: void undefined; func. main < 1258149233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set erase to control-x < 1258149234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258149239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh. < 1258149239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1258149249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ed, s/void//g :-D < 1258149254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that does all lines, maybe not < 1258149254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258149263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ed doesn't like s/// < 1258149273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1258149277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/void/d then < 1258149281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how to do it for every line < 1258149300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you deleted the whole line < 1258149302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay oil seems to require input file to use \r. < 1258149314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they should have had types on another line! < 1258149321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows the One True Declaration style looks like < 1258149322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void < 1258149326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int argc, char **argv) { < 1258149336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(—recent convert from straight k&r :P) < 1258149338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. That is C89 < 1258149343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though straight k&r has *no* return types.) < 1258149345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try K&R C < 1258149349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's easy to munge into k&r c, though < 1258149359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the type decl line, and delete one word after ( and , < 1258149359 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258149363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unprotoize < 1258149364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who cares about types) < 1258149372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, finally compiled uudecode < 1258149403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil works fine of the input file uses \® < 1258149405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\r* < 1258149407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1258149408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258149414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it workk? < 1258149415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work < 1258149418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, I'll be amazed < 1258149420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not sure, haven't tried it yet < 1258149423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode uses quite some characters! < 1258149428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd stick to alphanumericals < 1258149428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds a small file to test with
< 1258149436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to write your own converters for that < 1258149455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assign one letter to "read two letters and combine" < 1258149463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recursive; we can handle one or two levels of recursion) < 1258149472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine as in, 36-bitwise < 1258149480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258149482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 36-bitwise < 1258149494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.16-bitwise :P < 1258149498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost worked, except it deleted the last character of the filename < 1258149506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the converter just stuffs ascii into that place < 1258149508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the additional thingy < 1258149518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 30 line decoder, and a 40 line encoder < 1258149523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there was an @ in there < 1258149537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, conclusion is that mac doesn't support the b binary mode for fopen < 1258149539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1258149550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you always get the \r \n swap with fopen < 1258149558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or that I didn't use it in oil.y < 1258149559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you need some other mac specific interface for binary < 1258149565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or that < 1258149625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't find *any* fopen in oil.y. And freopen only for stdout to a file < 1258149641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc does it, no? < 1258149677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if yacc's doing it automatically < 1258149682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's probably /it/ opening in text mode < 1258149705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary mode is the stupidest thing ever < 1258149711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil takes input on stdin < 1258149712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... in what way? < 1258149714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like... *actually* open this file." < 1258149731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When I say fopen, as in open this file and give me this contents, right, this flag means open this file and ACTUALLY GIVE ME THE CONTENTS." < 1258149740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, you mean the fact it's needed is stupid, rather than using it is stupid < 1258149747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258149753 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame micro$oft < 1258149753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ais523 oil reads on stdin, and no fopen and generated freopen in oil-oil.c < 1258149761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no yacc isn't doing anything automatically < 1258149765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is in text mode < 1258149767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, stdin's always in text mode < 1258149772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Hello, 12-year-old AOLer. < 1258149776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You found the $ key. < 1258149782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use it to insult a money-grabbing corporation? < 1258149786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know... like all of them. < 1258149805 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be really surprised if 203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net was an AOL address... < 1258149806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the stupidest angle of attack you could possibly mount on Microsoft stuffed into obnoxious leetspeak. Stunning. < 1258149883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing pretty well with this trackball, considering how long it takes anyone to be proficient with a mouse. < 1258149892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.t.Z: compressed with 16 bits, can only handle 12 bits < 1258149894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258149958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, this version of compress has an option to make it use legacy 12-bit behaviour < 1258149998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders how many years transferring the entire C-INTERCAL distribution like this would take
< 1258150025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 1759163 2009-11-13 22:00 ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.Z < 1258150044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too many, then. < 1258150049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say. < 1258150080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering files using cat manages a few bytes per second < 1258150395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using pcc or cc? < 1258150548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess Go is why Russ Cox has been so silent lately < 1258150574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :GO IS A DIVISIVE ISSUE IN THIS CHANNEL, also $pun | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1258150619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cc < 1258150629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is more likely to compile ick, but cc is far cooler < 1258150632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and far harder to understand < 1258150708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, odd thing: :: is /../ but ::: is /../../ I would have expected that to require four : < 1258150757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't < 1258150760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as : is . < 1258150797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258151061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so on a real mac now bin2c, oil and convickt builds. Note that the clc-charset thingy make sheepshaver crash < 1258151084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the bin2c generated files are generated. Same goes for the oil generated files < 1258151089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why? messing with binary files? < 1258151097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why what? < 1258151119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, clc-charset file? well it crashes compiling that file < 1258151136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after printing some of the warnings about suspect assignment in if. < 1258151150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning off warnings doesn't help < 1258151188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would turning off warnings help? < 1258151189 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-78-211.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258151193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh on a real mac those weird symbols are easy to type < 1258151194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the warnings might work better < 1258151200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right-alt plus d and f < 1258151226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1) too fast crash to see them, thought maybe the fact that printing the warnings made the window scroll could cause a crash < 1258151256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) seeing the warnings on a real mac makes it possible to see that they are the same in sheepshaver. On the real mac they are all about doing = instead of == inside if < 1258151257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1258151275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically: emulator bug < 1258151369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258151779 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258151981 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258152182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258152533 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258152559 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this tiny unix system that you are talking about? < 1258152564 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is using it? < 1258152629 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is ancient as well as tiny < 1258152641 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is the one using it, right? < 1258152652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523. < 1258152658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7 and V5, him and me respectively. < 1258152664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tiny only because it is ancient. < 1258152736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how tiny? < 1258152749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... PDP-11 tiny. < 1258152757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just Unix. < 1258152759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulated or on an extra computer? < 1258152765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainline Unix, straight from ma bell. < 1258152771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: neither of us have a pdp-11, no :P < 1258152784 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258152795 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do TCP/IP? < 1258152802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no? < 1258152806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 1970s stuff. < 1258152809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7, 1975 iirc. < 1258152811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5, earlier. < 1258152821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258152850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP/IP dates from the 70s < 1258152887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I just say that Go's make-based build system is wonderfully simple? < 1258152889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TARG=hello < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOFILES=hello.go < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.cmd < 1258152900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can substitute pkg for cmd to make a library, iirc. < 1258152901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive make considered harmful < 1258152913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, $(GOARCH) for amd64/386/arm/whatever to cross-compile. < 1258152915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Um... < 1258152919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good, because it's not recursive make. < 1258152924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the system for Go progarms. < 1258152926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258152929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the toolchain. < 1258152944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And really, recursive make is useful if you just want a lazy "okay fucking build everything plz".) < 1258152978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it has the nice property that cross-compiling works even with that minimal file... < 1258152983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make GOARCH=386" etc. < 1258153038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather bruteforce approach: < 1258153038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make clean < 1258153039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f *.[568vq] hello < 1258153249 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258153263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it forgot *~ < 1258153267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always useful to clean out < 1258153272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your editor's fault. < 1258153305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was sarcasm. Because I have seen way too many makefiles do that < 1258153307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that an RPN calculator is the best way to play around with Go
< 1258153310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1258153318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well it's funny, now that I know it's sarcasm. < 1258153324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an improvement in some sense :P < 1258153333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, improvement over what? < 1258153342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that aren't funny even when explained. < 1258153355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258153360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorpn: pronounced "gorpn". < 1258153368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord xyzzy gorpn quux. < 1258153378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what *is* gorpn? < 1258153382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go RPN. < 1258153387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an RPN calculator written in Go. < 1258153391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My creativity KNOWS NO BOUNDS. < 1258153398 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a roguelike! < 1258153398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that it'll be an implementation of an esolang, probably. < 1258153401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did Gregor say about Go? I forgot < 1258153407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Don't feel like binding ncurses < 1258153415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "IT'S HORRIBLE AND I HATE HOW THEY NAMED THE COMPILERS AND THE TOOLCHAIN SUCKS" < 1258153420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No justification was given. < 1258153424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a text adventure! < 1258153432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and something about the syntax being acceptable but the semantics being nonsensical? I don't even remember. < 1258153433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't read it too closely < 1258153438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gregor was PMSing. < 1258153441 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you needn't bind ncurses < 1258153441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im playing around with go by working with it in acme on a plan 9 cpu server that im drawterming to, its the ultimate Rob Pike fanboy experience < 1258153448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PMSing? < 1258153452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Males can in fact do that when presented with something sufficiently repulsive to them! < 1258153455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a scientific fact. < 1258153467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: jfgi < 1258153475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, rob pike fanboy experience? Do I even want to know what that is < 1258153489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an orgasm, but composed of love for Rob Pike. < 1258153497 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258153508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you fell about a makefile using ð instead of \ ? < 1258153514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as syntax I mean < 1258153516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rob Pike is one of the old guard Unix guys, huge force in Plan 9 development, wrote acme for instance, blah blah) < 1258153524 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what is that char supposed to be? < 1258153526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hurr I am Mac and I don't do charsets < 1258153530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: icelandic d :-P < 1258153535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also Go) < 1258153536 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaaaaay < 1258153537 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258153554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have broken unicode atm? Or was that a joke about MPW makefiles (because you already seen them?) < 1258153557 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah seeing Ken Thompson Rob Pike and Russ Cox working together on this is definitely the Revenge of Plan 9 crew, weve all been wondering what they were up to < 1258153565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Latter < 1258153572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, look at http://omploader.org/vMnJoag < 1258153576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rob Pike supports software patents and that makes me sad < 1258153588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what is the difference between one of those old-style s and two of them? < 1258153591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's so cool that it FADES INTO IRRELEVANCE < 1258153594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been unable to find proper docs < 1258153595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1258153597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea < 1258153602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's : < 1258153603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have been looking at examples < 1258153604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and :: < 1258153615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258153627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now what was the diff in normal make < 1258153631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been using : mostly
< 1258153632 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that looks like the hack some languages used to fit their semi-latin chars into 7 bits < 1258153649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, charset would be MacRoman < 1258153658 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tended to replace {|}[\] or whatever < 1258153667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, {} is used there too. See < 1258153678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a lot of the old guard has kind of had to eat crow on their early positions on free software and linux, ken thompson was pretty negative about the linux kernel in interviews in the 90s < 1258153680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [] and | works < 1258153722 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1258153732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well, the linux kernel is pretty shit to be honest. < 1258153751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and free software is just another copyright-centered movement, except with a really crazy guy at the helm < 1258153754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I'm pretty sure that I can type \ on it *tries* < 1258153755 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so he doesn;t dislike it as much now? < 1258153783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The greatest lie of the free software movement was claiming it used copyright to subvert copyright. It did no such thing; it is exactly in the spirit of copyright law and would fail horribly without it... < 1258153791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I can. AltGr-Shift-7 < 1258153795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives me \ < 1258153802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258153811 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, being employed by google and having his work be focused on it means that as a practical matter, i doubt he would make the same comments - a few years ago in an interview he basically took it all back and said that he thought linux was OK because it got the job done < 1258153813 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using the backslash key? < 1258153831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, on a classic mac yes. Using Swedish keyboard layout < 1258153836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, what did you expect? < 1258153836 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of FS was to stop people having programs they can't fix? I recall RMS telling a story about a printer driver with a bug, and being angry he didn't have thhe sourec to fix it and donate a patch. < 1258153855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on linux/pc with Swedish keyboard it is just AltGr-+ < 1258153876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmt.Printf("%s\n", os.Stdin) < 1258153877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1258153878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s(*os.File=&{0 /dev/stdin 0}) < 1258153881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun and weird! < 1258153893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, maybe that %s is being iinterpreted literally < 1258153911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258153929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird stringification < 1258153951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe that is what Gregor was talking about < 1258153957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1258154010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258154257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:10] SimonRC: I thought the point of FS was to stop people having programs they can't fix? I recall RMS telling a story about a printer driver with a bug, and being angry he didn't have thhe sourec to fix it and donate a patch. < 1258154258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was its progenitor. < 1258154275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stallman's method, however, was nothing short of perverse: enforcing a bewildering array of restrictions to get to the paltry grants. < 1258154311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking dominion of the infinite space of some information is exactly what copyright is intended for. The GPL user stands guard, slaying anyone who dares do what he was not told he could do. < 1258154330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not subverting copyright, that's being its BFF. < 1258154348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord, is this channel having simultaneous licensing and language wars? < 1258154367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There *is* a way to subvert copyright by granting all rights, thus meaning that anyone who receives a copy can know that all the author can do is sit there chillin'.) < 1258154376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is possible to talk about an issue without having a flamewar. < 1258154385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in fact, we haven't been warring about Go at all. < 1258154391 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think anyone is taking the bait to rise up and defend the gpl, though I certainly can mentally simulate what Eben Moglen etc would have to say < 1258154413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even the BSD and MIT licenses don't achieve it. < 1258154428 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can talk to an imaginary Richard Stallman in my head, and hear what he has to say, does that mean i have a cognitive subsystem that passes the stallman turing test? < 1258154431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still that one restriction (include this notice), and so the legal guardian is as primed as ever in the space-of-concepts. < 1258154440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can remove that. < 1258154441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no difference how many; only whether there are any. < 1258154444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have on occasion :P < 1258154448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then it isn't the BSD/MIT license, duh. < 1258154459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1258154467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mentioning the BSD/MIT license... < 1258154489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license text I settled on as the simplest, solid way to grant all rights for any given work (not just software) is, lemme find it... < 1258154510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No rights reserved." :P < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission is granted to copy, modify and distribute this work. < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1258154519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Public domain is... shaky. < 1258154527 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a joke. < 1258154530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. :P < 1258154538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "THERE IS NO WARRANTY" < 1258154540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying "Public domain, or if you prefer see LICENSE" is the best of both worlds. < 1258154546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In proper no-warranty style ALL CAPS. < 1258154559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: JUST IN CASE IT GOT DROWNED OUT IN THOSE FEW WORDS ABOVE IT < 1258154564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258154593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some software licenses actually grant the permission to use the software. < 1258154600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, I don't think we need your permission, dude. < 1258154621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses are for distribution anyway... < 1258154627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it was an EULA :P < 1258154670 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a matter of fact, i think the right to use does have to be explicity granted < 1258154678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in usa law under current interpretation < 1258154686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA law is a giant suckfest. < 1258154687 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see apple vs. psystar < 1258154690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the good kind. < 1258154694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that with a license, though < 1258154701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses simply don't apply to the situation of usage, no? < 1258154702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, that's just because Apple has redefined using as a kind of copying. < 1258154707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they'd be EULAs < 1258154910 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258154910 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258154910 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i thought that loading software from physical media into computer memory *is* a copyvio unless you are explicitly granted the right to do so as a necessary precondition of using it < 1258154913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, it should cover only copying. < 1258154916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright really ought to be /dev/null. < 1258154923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, it should die a painful death. < 1258154931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I left out "use" because I specifically made it usable for non-software works. < 1258155043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is public domain "shaky"? I never understood what the issue would be... < 1258155067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most laws of copyright don't let you release the copyright of your work until you've been dead for some years. < 1258155071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not well-defined what process is necessary to declare something as being in the public domain. < 1258155078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1258155088 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think the concept of public domain exists or has very similar ;meaning between different countries, whereas copyright is more harmonized due to treaties < 1258155105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is that? < 1258155116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dual-copyrighting" as "public domain or if you want it can be copyrighted under license-that-grants-permission-to-everything" is the best solution. < 1258155120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because they simply don't grant you the right. < 1258155129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say "If someone makes a work it's copyrighted until 80 years after their death." < 1258155141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at no point do they say "Oh, and the creator can release the copyright to their work, btw." < 1258155167 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, in terms of crazy copyright news, anyone hear a few months ago about egypt attempting to claim copyright on the pyramids and the sphinx? < 1258155199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258155221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the "authors" been dead for OVER NINE-THOUSAAAAAAAND years? < 1258155236 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, my time sense is off - it was two years ago, heres a 'reputable source' news link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7160057.stm < 1258155267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure mycroftiv exists in a realm outside of time < 1258155270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or he's stoned 24/7 < 1258155281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or both) < 1258155310 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using Plan 9 alters brain chemistry as much or more than any merely physical molecule < 1258155325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i very much doubt that < 1258155357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually feels safe opening links directly from XChat now
< 1258155372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I used Firefox, if I tried that, XChat would freeze for some time < 1258155374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, using a trackball, I think my thumb is now a contortionist. < 1258155377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some exercise. < 1258155384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess until FIrefox was able to process and start loading it < 1258155419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I misread that as "cartoonist" < 1258155421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was confused. < 1258155431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1258155451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: haha, my linux distro will confuse you plan 9 weenies — "/bin/8g foo.go? What kind of language is g?" < 1258155491 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... Isn't stuff like that supposed to be in /usr/bin? < 1258155505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what is a "contortionist" < 1258155507 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plan 9 everything gets union bound to /bin < 1258155513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/ < 1258155519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: /usr is the most retarded idea ever < 1258155521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trufax < 1258155530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm on a phone atm. To do so I would have to close the irc client < 1258155533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not in the day when it was invented (i'm talking about non-/home-style usr) < 1258155549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays it just adds needless hierarchy cruft. < 1258155556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why everything goes in /bin in mine < 1258155559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including /bin/linux) < 1258155568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you still refuse to explain it then? < 1258155575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's someone who's bendy. < 1258155581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1258155582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not refusing, it's not explaining it < 1258155590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't cause someone to do an active thing (refuse) merely by prompting them < 1258155615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can read DIlbert from the beginning!
< 1258155621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least, the first published one) < 1258155653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, all of these I read already < 1258155667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the one where Dilbert dies? What's the one where Dogbert dies? < 1258155676 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1258155693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dates of the dilbert strips < 1258155697 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, /usr is useful since it contains most of the program executables and data. Idea is that /usr would be put on different filesystem. < 1258155724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nobody actually does that :) < 1258155742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What Gregor said :P < 1258155759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-10-16/ The start of the Dogbert dies arc < 1258155814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But nobody actually does that :) <-- I do < 1258155820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on servers < 1258155825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny / < 1258155834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then separate /tmp /var /usr < 1258155838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and /home < 1258155854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt being a symlink to /usr/opt < 1258155888 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-10-22/ is one of my all-time favourites IIRC < 1258155935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to get rid of the instinct to simply copy the URL < 1258155942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, 999999999... < 1258155956 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suspect I have a book with that time period in it, which is why many of them looked familiar < 1258155967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two months after I was born, that latter one. < 1258155970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I think I do, to < 1258155974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the day. < 1258155986 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: argh you bloody young people that are almost overtaking me in skills < 1258156002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Thanks for the compliment? < 1258156011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(psst. most kids are fucking dumb) < 1258156031 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you aren't < 1258156049 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when you come out with jewels like not knowing htere were multiple moon landings < 1258156056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS A BRAINFART >_< < 1258156068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curse your accursed good memory < 1258156148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Chrome froze < 1258156154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, not for very long < 1258156426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the go tutorial has a cat... with a flag :-D < 1258156436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so it's just -n, which was in pre-cat-v, but still < 1258156549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagined a picture of a cat waving a flag
< 1258156568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello kitty style < 1258156602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" —Rob Pike < 1258156759 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rob pike did say though "the days of one tool per job are over, and the eulogy was written by perl" - still not sure exactly how he meant that, maybe just being realistic < 1258156787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Pimp Code < 1258156991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well, he's right < 1258157002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at perl — it does everything in one bag < 1258157005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no separated tools < 1258157077 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, im just not sure if he meant that he was convinced by perl that was an OK approach, or if he was just bowing to the inevitable < 1258157139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258157156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: aren't they identical to a cynic? < 1258157195 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but i dont know where pike is exactly on the cynicism vs design purity continuum < 1258157258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1258157261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can be on both. < 1258157309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: liking go, btw? < 1258157310 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a purist certainly can lead to cynicism < 1258157330 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah very much, to me it seems obvious that its 'better' than c++ or java as an attempt to extend C < 1258157367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm most interested in it for three things: shiny new language, let's find a niche!; could this be better than C for applications programming?; could this be better than rc for the things rc is good for? < 1258157404 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the message passing/synchronization stuff between chans is really great, pretty similar to limbo in that regard < 1258157484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the ideas it has a similar to ones i've had but that required taking a stand on some issue of e.g. syntax or semantics as a tradeoff but one of little importance — solving all those for me in something with backing is great < 1258157496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as a sort of "shut the hell up and use this" < 1258157509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that iota shit though? hack hack HACK < 1258157535 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres still a lot of stuff in go i havent really assimilated yet < 1258157647 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my project is porting a linux client for a 9p fs i wrote < 1258157678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ive mostly just been learning how to translate C basics < 1258157722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation is always a bad idea. < 1258157726 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258157734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grok the language, read the concepts of your previous program, and write a new one with the same concepts. < 1258157753 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its nice to have a bit of instant gratification though < 1258157769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you have your C program already? < 1258157786 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plan 9, i never ported it to *nix, although thats basically trivial < 1258157817 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just download TinyRB (tiny Ruby clone), laughing at the irony of the 750k configure script
< 1258157828 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id been meaning to do it anyway, so doing it in go seemed like an ok two-birds-one-stone concept, it doesnt prevent me from doing better projects tomorrow or next week < 1258157880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Variables can be initialized just like constants but the initializer can be a general expression computed at run time.]] < 1258157880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About fucking time! < 1258157888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: So how's your 1 MB disk doing < 1258157901 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1258157906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not irony. < 1258157913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main Ruby configure script is about that big too. < 1258157916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not ironic. < 1258157921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be ironic if Ruby's configure was smaller. < 1258157949 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't have main Ruby onhand to check its configure size
< 1258157963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost certainly larger < 1258157970 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone here has read the source of ed.
< 1258157971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More support for stuff, you know, that stuff you like < 1258157973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like old things < 1258157974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: which ed < 1258157975 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they upgrade to 2.64, it'll shrink a lot (shell functions) < 1258157986 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the editor < 1258157996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caldera Unix ed, modern SysV derivative ed, BSD ed, GNU ed, Heirloom ed, ...? < 1258158000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox ed? < 1258158036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where to put GOROOT in his system design. Maybe /opt/go.
< 1258158041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with GOBIN=/bin) < 1258158048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe /lib/go... < 1258158054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wishes that there was a Firefox theme for Chrome
< 1258158063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not /share/go, though.) < 1258158070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not /bin/go. < 1258158087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why? < 1258158091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Chrome UI is wonderful. < 1258158101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, dunno which ed < 1258158105 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1258158111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: why did you ask? < 1258158143 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258158146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I won't keep wondering if the Chrome UI is the reason I'm not doing any work for this project, because I'm not used to it < 1258158153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's an insane thought, but still < 1258158154 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd heard it was quite OO, based on streams and stuff < 1258158162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: weird < 1258158166 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know which version I was reading about < 1258158179 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: leads to compact code apparently < 1258158200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by oo in this case < 1258158269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, each source or sink or filter of data had a couple of "methods" (function pointers) that specified how to read from or write to it < 1258158286 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recall much more than that < 1258158331 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autoconf 2.61, go figure < 1258158381 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you guys make any progress on ick? or AnMaster? < 1258158394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on pdp11 unix v7? < 1258158395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read the logs, didn't tell everything
< 1258158397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was ais523 < 1258158400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is doing macos9 < 1258158404 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258158404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix v7 hasn't been done yet < 1258158409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think macos9 ran into a blocker for now < 1258158409 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, did it ever work? < 1258158419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes some. Atm the emulator keeps crashing a lot. Works better on a real mac < 1258158426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, going to continue tomorrow, need sleep soon < 1258158441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but several of the tools builds. Haven't got around to ick itself yet < 1258158451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're way the heck over seas (different time zone), it's not very late here (6pm) < 1258158458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck~ < 1258158459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1258158484 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, ehird, I think I've told you before, Ardi's Exectuor is a (non-Mac ROM using) emulator < 1258158497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks though < 1258158499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I'm afraid it won't build fully under sheepshaver. < 1258158523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1258158523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/go/src/cmd/goyacc < 1258158523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/go/src/cmd/goyacc < 1258158524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here /lib wins, but in < 1258158524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/go/lib/lib9.a < 1258158524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/go/lib/lib9.a < 1258158525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt wins for the lack of repetition < 1258158526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for basiliskII, I have been unable to do any sort of building with 68k at all < 1258158536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib, though, has the advantage of meaning I don't need another dir in / (opt) < 1258158559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use some under /lib and some under /opt? < 1258158575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but why under /lib? That is for stuff like libc and other core stuff < 1258158585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib for stuff after /usr is mounted < 1258158587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't, it's for libraries. < 1258158590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no /usr. < 1258158598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh your distro? < 1258158601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258158608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just came to hate it. I liked it before < 1258158612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not any more < 1258158616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually, you know — give a shit. < 1258158692 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, how much RAM does your real Mac have? < 1258158703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just doing this for Macs in general (e.g. emulated)? < 1258158710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 64 MB < 1258158727 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, might not be enough to run DOSBox ;-) < 1258158731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it's a first model ibook < 1258158737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I wouldn't be interested in that < 1258158752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it ran virtualpc before. Good question "how" < 1258158756 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but Ick works there, so ... hey, I just figured it wasn't the totally worst idea ;-) < 1258158785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway my sheepshaver instance on my thinkpad has 512 MB allocated < 1258158815 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really hates super duper long *nix commandlines when compiling ...
< 1258158839 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258158841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's autohell's fault. < 1258158850 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKAGE_TARNAME, PACKAGE_BUGREPORT, PACKAGE_VERSION, do those all have to be defined on the cmdline each time??? < 1258158868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, um they are in config.h < 1258158868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258158869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ugly ... and they hate DOS (heh), is *that* irony?? < 1258158870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because make is shit. < 1258158876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not irony. < 1258158877 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, apparently not ;-) < 1258158882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what package? < 1258158886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ick they are < 1258158887 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny Ruby < 1258158887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please look up the meaning of the word irony. Also, ;-) makes you look really annoying. < 1258158889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, TinyRB < 1258158897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well then it doesn't use config.h < 1258158901 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am annoying, deal with it < 1258158908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no. < 1258158923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, seriously ... I'm convinced now that you are some uber genius / child prodigy based upon your crazy knowledge but really young age < 1258158933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if you can find out how to build a shared library under MPW tell me < 1258158946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the age of 20 I will have conquered the world and my first move will be to outlaw DOS. < 1258158949 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely, sorry < 1258158951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SO SURE ABOUT THAT NOW < 1258158973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say "crazy knowledge" ;-) (crazy) < 1258158974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does sed have an insert? < 1258158976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258158977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than s//foo/ < 1258158981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258158987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it :P < 1258158988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed is basically a fork of ed < 1258158990 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i\ < 1258159003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have to use newlines? :/ < 1258159014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1258159019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, but honestly I avoid i\ because some (old) seds don't handle it perfectly < 1258159031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ seq 1000000 | sed 'd;i a' < 1258159031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: 1: "d;i a": command i expects \ followed by text < 1258159032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ seq 1000000 | sed 'd;i\a' < 1258159032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: 1: "d;i\a": extra characters after \ at the end of i command < 1258159033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GNU sed is just very slow comparatively, even if superior) < 1258159036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*look of disapproval* < 1258159066 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sed? < 1258159070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu sed < 1258159075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, oops < 1258159078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work cuz of d ofc < 1258159089 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the Info doc then, it should give examples < 1258159139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258159192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for sed to do the gruelling task of doing one million replaces
< 1258159197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or seq to print out one million things, i guess < 1258159214 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed works a line at a time, so it's fairly slow < 1258159217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care how big the binaries are on disk... processing one million numbers like that with a regexp is NOT hard shit < 1258159224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be done in a second or two < 1258159233 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed (traditionally) reads the whole file into memory, so it's not as efficient for large files but is probably faster < 1258159235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is two thousand and fucking nine! < 1258159240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it finished < 1258159247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and BTW < 1258159252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -l gorpn.go < 1258159252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1000004 gorpn.go < 1258159255 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,$ does replacement on every line (for ed) < 1258159257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S SEE HOW FAST YOU REALLY ARE, FEEBLE COMPILER < 1258159260 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes % is aliased to 1,$ too < 1258159287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can certainly notice THIS compile time :P < 1258159292 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not needed in sed as it always does one line at a time < 1258159306 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fast? < 1258159319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try 100,000 lines instead < 1258159328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it can compile 100k codebases in seconds — it's *fast* < 1258159340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, but you're saying it's not true in your current experience?? < 1258159344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but methinks 1 million junk lines as one unit... not practical < 1258159363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't fault the compiler for this one, really :P < 1258159410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, TinyRB doesn't seem to build correctly, oh well < 1258159431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like regular Ruby is so huge either < 1258159438 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(comparatively) < 1258159454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1,$ is the same as , no? < 1258159473 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even it has something called "miniruby" used to build the final "ruby" < 1258159475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this ed doesn't have -e < 1258159475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1258159478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, but I know % typically is < 1258159528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will Go be renamed? < 1258159536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu. < 1258159660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will Sgeo be renamed? :-> < 1258159672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sgeo < 1258159674 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now? < 1258159675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C was hard to search for once upon a time too < 1258159688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unix? eunuchs? These guys value puns and conciseness... nothing else. < 1258159690 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's not just searchability. There's already a Go! < 1258159708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and its author is a whining bitch on the Go issue tracker, and nobody uses his. < 1258159718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he can't claim the right over a short English word as a name. < 1258159725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if he has an exclamation mark after it and they don't. < 1258159741 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe no one uses it, but it's referenced in papers, iirc. Maybe Go! should be renamed to "Academic Go"? < 1258159750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody really cares. < 1258159818 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, it's not worth complaining about < 1258159822 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"go" is too common < 1258159837 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION supports ehird for president
< 1258159851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... until the DOS outlawing, of course ;-) < 1258159856 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses Firebird? < 1258159862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many. < 1258159976 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to try a new game
< 1258160055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1258160057 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258160060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1258160167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if TinyPy compiles ...
< 1258160177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OS? < 1258160192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, me? < 1258160202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258160206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP using DJGPP ;-) < 1258160240 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, one whole file in /examples (julia.py) < 1258160272 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh, depends on Python for bootstrapping < 1258160277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(have it but not installed) < 1258160727 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258160727 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258161029 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, TinyPY no dice either < 1258161036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION limps off to play Quake instead ...
< 1258161117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what failed < 1258161137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with "struct stat stbuf" (couldn't figure out size or whatever) < 1258161203 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258161637 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258161637 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258161977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1258162088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, he said "go" < 1258162093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258162116 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258162117 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1258162118 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be "issue #9's to bed" < 1258162432 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258162444 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258162818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Any news on your distro? < 1258162871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the design is resisting my mental prods attempting to change it, which is a good indicator it's solid. implementation is waiting on hardware, so, within a month or two perhaps I'll be hacking something up < 1258162889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for needing real hardware? < 1258162904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say something you can use as your daily driver (as long as you have contact with me at a pinch) by... may 2010? optimistically < 1258162926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: practicality — VMs are platonic in a way that probably won't lead to good results on real hardware < 1258162939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but honestly? I just don't feel like the OS X chrome would inspire me to make something good < 1258162998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Fair enough. < 1258163008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to check it out, at the very least. < 1258163116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully i don't have to go to any great effort to get an installer... it'll just be "tell package manager to install whatever root package I decide into /mnt/sys" plus a dab of configuration < 1258163226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the installer should be about as complex as Gentoo's. < 1258163241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: LiveCD that has tar and chroot) < 1258163283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the package manager. < 1258163287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot not required, actually. < 1258163304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a netinstall (= run the package manager) with PKGROOT=/mnt/sys or whatever. < 1258163315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus quick config, and the lilo install. < 1258163329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you want to keep GRUB around for your existing stuff, just install lilo to a partition and make grub chainload it.) < 1258163347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo uses the chroot because it makes it a bit simpler to install packages from there. < 1258163367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the tarball doesn't have things like "a bootloader" or "Linux"; you have to emerge them.) < 1258163399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No tarball in mine, since it'll just have a little system w/ the package manager on the CD itself. < 1258163408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really, CD? Get a USB stick, you bum :P < 1258163427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 4 in here *somewhere*. < 1258163437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... Buried. < 1258163443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIVE FLOPPY < 1258163448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Displays an ASCII tux on boot < 1258163678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258163811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the make incantation to append to a previous rule? < 1258163857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1258163872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful information, Rugxulo. < 1258163896 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes I find being ignored worse than no help :-P < 1258163943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it's :: < 1258163946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other one has to be :: too < 1258163947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258163965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, makefiles are quite ugly, no wonder there are so many alternatives nowadays < 1258163971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1258163972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean: clean2 < 1258163972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean2: < 1258163972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rm -f *.y < 1258163976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: they suck more. < 1258163978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from mk(1) < 1258163983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just an improved make < 1258163988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you want to do < 1258163992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258164013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons, scons, cmake, cbuild, makepp, etc. < 1258164028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks < 1258164233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1670742 < 1258164237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy < 1258164256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just five lines (six including the unneeded separator newline :P) to add goyacc support cleanly to the go makefiles without editing them < 1258164934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons sucks, scons sucks, cmake uses Make, cbuild appears to suck, makepp suffers from most of the same flaws as does Make... < 1258164961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cbuild isn't bad unless you want to do really complex stuff < 1258164981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waf, I think that was the improved Scons variant < 1258164984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmake takes make and makes it suck more — truly astonishing < 1258164997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people swear by cmake, dunno really < 1258164998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waf is useless to actually get things done, and it isn't a fork of scons < 1258165008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do enough for you and the syntax is awkward < 1258165026 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all syntax is awkward < 1258165040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A useless, false statement that adds nothing. 'grats < 1258165057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False, now there's a "real" language ;-) < 1258165068 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true", even ;-) < 1258165111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the build system for most Go programs is just a few lines, only two of which you ever need to change... < 1258165114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TARG=gobf < 1258165114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOFILES=gobf.go < 1258165114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258165114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) < 1258165115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.cmd < 1258165137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't *BSD already do something similar? < 1258165148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You change TARG= to the name of your executable, GOFILES= to the filenames of your sources, separated by spaces... and you get "make" and "make clean" working, and cross-compiling is just "make GOARCH=arm" < 1258165154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and make install, you get that too < 1258165172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make install GOBIN=/foo/bin" installs to /foo/bin instead (it just installs the binary, you could add stuff to the install target yourself if you want) < 1258165180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: quite similar < 1258165183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just for the BSD trees themselves < 1258165188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 does it too for all programs < 1258165193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go IS by the plan 9 guys... < 1258165205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the downside is that with go you need to have a few env variables < 1258165223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | grep ^GO < 1258165223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOARCH=amd64 < 1258165223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOBIN=/Users/ehird/go/bin < 1258165224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMAXPROCS=2 < 1258165224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOROOT=/Users/ehird/go < 1258165224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOS=darwin < 1258165234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, 5 vars < 1258165243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not perfect, but then it's not really a problem either < 1258165263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can omit GOBIN if you're ok with ~/bin, GOMAXPROCS if you don't want multi-cpu stuff (this is stupid though) < 1258165275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Cmake attempts to make autoconf and automake suck less. In this goal, it will of *course* suck more than make. < 1258165288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it USES make to make something WORSE than make. < 1258165302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally any attempts to make make suck more just fail; it's always at its worst. < 1258165310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotools manages it, sure... but cmake manages it even more. < 1258165343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOROOT=/opt/go < 1258165343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOBIN=/bin < 1258165343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOARCH=386 < 1258165344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOS=linux < 1258165344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMAXROCS=(number of cpus on the system) < 1258165344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— distro :-P < 1258165345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that there is no such thing as a good build system.
< 1258165347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GOMAXPROCS < 1258165374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I haven't had any issues with Go's so far. Admittedly it achieves that by being so fast that dependencies just... don't matter. < 1258165389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your large project compiles in three seconds... who cares if it's all in one rule? < 1258165620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if anyone has an old box to donate that'd speed up distro development :-P < 1258165874 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends ehird a UNIVAC
< 1258165886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends ehird an Altair
< 1258165890 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends ehird an Honeywell
< 1258165890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1258165995 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, even if I had something, it'd cost more to ship over there than it's worth :-P < 1258166021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION paddles across the Atlantic just to brind ehird his 486 ...
< 1258166145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends ehird the Bombe
< 1258166154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsar Bomba < 1258166160 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends GAME.COM
< 1258166169 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends Game&Watch
< 1258166205 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends a VIC-20 ;-)
< 1258166212 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy those oodles of RAM :-D < 1258166247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would actually almost enjoy writing a Befunge93 interpreter for a VIC-20 ... if he knew how (and had one)
< 1258166369 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google "vic-20" emulator < 1258166372 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can now write VIC-20 games on your PC using this complier and test them immediately on any emulator. You can even design your graphics on your favourite ... \ www.kdef.com/geek/vic/ - [13]Cached - [14]Similar < 1258166390 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, VICE (even runs in DOS) ... still, I have no experience < 1258166422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the asm is pretty simple < 1258166432 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is struggling with Befunge98 ... apparently 3k$ doesn't work like he expects (i.e. at all)
< 1258166637 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, it seems 1k$ pops two values off the stack < 1258166650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is the unintuitive one < 1258166665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k does that many MORE < 1258166671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. afterwards it goes on to the instruction you were king < 1258166675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after doing all the repeats < 1258166686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can understand the fun and hilarity caused by mixing k and #. < 1258166694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, no, you can't understand it < 1258166697 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused
< 1258166698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc"1k$,@ < 1258166702 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints 'a' for instance < 1258166705 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1258166724 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you saying, "it does ... then loops n times" < 1258166726 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258166744 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be, since CCBI and FBBI both behave identically < 1258166775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, I believe, means "run the next instruction n times" < 1258166784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can see that if n=1, "run the next instruction 1 time", it executes < 1258166788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we go on to the next instruction < 1258166790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that instruction < 1258166792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it runs again < 1258166795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1kX runs X twice < 1258166802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd but apparently true < 1258166809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not even be intentional. < 1258166830 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CCBI also mimics it, so ... < 1258166835 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, voila! I have done it! < 1258166843 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mild imaginary applause) < 1258166854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that tells you whether run as Befunge 93, 96, 97, or 98 < 1258166855 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1258166870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 109?????????????????? < 1258166872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha only joking. < 1258166877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do show it < 1258166880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not done (or so I heard) < 1258166883 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course ;-) < 1258166903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :109 isn't an official standard anyway. < 1258166944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested on various 93 interpreters, MTFI for 96 and 97 (are there others for those??? doubt it ...), and CCBI and FBBI for 98 < 1258166959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1" "/#v_"8879">,1k$>,@ < 1258166961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;$R z 3 < 1258166962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really digging this trackball < 1258166963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0"39",z+ ^ < 1258166964 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows
< 1258166968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty good at it after only a day < 1258166970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: pretty < 1258166981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy, oh esoteric kings of mastery! < 1258167002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dedicated to thee and thine dedication to all arts odd ;-) < 1258167186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that it's two spaces in between quotes) < 1258167215 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, forgot to test Interfunge :-) < 1258167256 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err ... it obviously doesn't handle it, heh (understatement) < 1258167456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever poised to write a program then you realise < 1258167461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no programs to give to the world? < 1258167544 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, there's always some idea (even if crazy or super trivial) < 1258167569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but slightly sleep deprived and lazy—— < 1258167574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I'm gonna eat that food < 1258167576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would help < 1258167595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must engineer myself to need less sleep sometime < 1258167616 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, sleep is good for problem solving, though ;-) < 1258167640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, be able to function normally for 3 days with vastly reduced sleep, and then be out for about 24 hours < 1258167645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like thaht < 1258167646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1258167660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I both love staying in bed once I'm in there, and not going to bed when I'm not < 1258167707 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join the club ;-) < 1258167725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but I'm crazy enough to try and devise a schedule where that is actually possible < 1258167741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all chemistry < 1258167849 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the body has its own internal clock, hence they suggest sleeping on a normal schedule for best results < 1258167855 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exercise helps too (or so I'm told, heh) < 1258167871 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much caffeine can hurt too, but a little is okay < 1258167886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The circadian rhythm is important, but there are alternate schedules that work fine with it < 1258167909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uberman is roughly the point at where things are hardcore enough that it seems the body just gives up on the circadian rhythm. < 1258167926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not an insurmountable problem. < 1258167950 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but rest is beneficial, sometimes more beneficial than higher quantities of work < 1258167960 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't work harder, work smarter < 1258168012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uberman delivers rest. < 1258168052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking with the knowledge of the experiences of seasoned Uberman practitioners... they are extraordinarily well-rested and productive on very little sleep, and the circadian rhythm appears to just drop out. < 1258168059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not less rest; it's restructured rest. < 1258168082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The disadvantages being who knows what it does long-term, and also it means you have to sleep every four hours. < 1258168494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A guy in #go-nuts just directly portrayed a false dichotomy between pkg-config and autotools. < 1258168497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Therapy please? < 1258168525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:14] Amaranth: ehird: Well the other choice is for every package to require env variables :) < 1258168528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding ding ding! < 1258168530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False trichotomy. < 1258168713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... So. Much. Wrong. < 1258168742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pkg-config essentially replaces *libtool*... < 1258168768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... That third line is WTF? < 1258168792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S BE SAD ^_^ < 1258169202 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258169206 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258169211 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gxis revido" < 1258169382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone crazy enough to want to restructure the Go documentation as manpages with me? < 1258169386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think so. < 1258169887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all suck :P < 1258171588 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091027080938]" < 1258172925 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258173276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258174444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION comes up with some little ideas for VCS backends
< 1258174492 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258175256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I could implement this VCS in Go! < 1258177443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258178370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1258178422 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1258178423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's too complicated language! I think the easiest is Visual Basic .NET < 1258178424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—comment on a blog post on go < 1258178456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its not different its like Java, python is more easier than of it :D" < 1258178627 0 :sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258178628 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@88-107-8-136.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258178674 0 :ehird__!n=ehird@91.105.120.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258179076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258179596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258179596 0 :ehird__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1258185130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what was that minimalist pastebin you liked? < 1258185599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258185600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258186738 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1258186739 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BAM* < 1258186761 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should make a new esolang < 1258186798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooooooooo < 1258187755 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258187853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why noooooooooooooooooot < 1258189073 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091105041559]" < 1258189104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaause < 1258190005 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro.message[1].amount[a] != asiekierka.message[3].amount[o] < 1258190594 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258190733 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258192594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to write goreutils! < 1258192606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like coreutils, except without the bloat and also written in Go. < 1258192611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a large undertaking WHATSOEVER < 1258192626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and the resulting binaries only run in the runtime environment < 1258192636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, a GC! < 1258192638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sky is falling! < 1258192641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has a runtime too, weenie. < 1258192645 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1258192651 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the deal with go exactly < 1258192662 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched the google video for it and came away with like < 1258192670 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a significant feeling of not knowing what the fuck < 1258192679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: what was that minimalist pastebin you liked? <-- do you mean http://sprunge.us/ ? < 1258192704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did I say it didn't? < 1258192707 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing < 1258192709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: it's from the people who made unix, c, and plan 9. the compiler is well engineered and _extremely_ fast. it's a systems programming language. C, cleaned up, with a garbage collector, a wonderful concurrency model (a very big point), and a nice sort-of-OO type system that makes structuring programs a lot easier. < 1258192710 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258192712 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you doing here < 1258192719 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I was on Isharia& for a moment < 1258192723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's a more comfortable C for the applications level with some extra stuff, and it's from the Old Guard. < 1258192725 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrifying < 1258192732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1258192741 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so okay < 1258192743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's silly how syntax highlighting is in the resulting url though < 1258192743 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1258192751 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an industrial grade language < 1258192756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1258192760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great for little hacks, too < 1258192765 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1258192770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's low-level without having lots of boilerplate < 1258192771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, It could be useful for polygots I guess? < 1258192780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its abstraction facilities are good, plus its syntax is light < 1258192785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ends up being quite pleasing for little hacks < 1258192792 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liiike < 1258192799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a general-purpose language, dude. < 1258192809 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give an example of a hack < 1258192810 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffff < 1258192812 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 marks) < 1258192816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little programs. < 1258192819 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1258192822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you'd normally do with, say, Python. < 1258192874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what are the points of Go that kill the performance (one larger-than-usual-projetwork Java program made me realize that real performance killer in Java are virtual function calls). < 1258192889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Basically everything is resolved at compile-time. < 1258192894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including method lookups and all that stuff. < 1258192900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, the crappy GC. They're making that much betterr. < 1258192901 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the video, they said they still had some flaky library code < 1258192907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the gc compiler doesn't do much optimisation atm. < 1258192912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is, however, EXTREMELY fast.) < 1258192921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's quite good now. < 1258192931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be competitive with C in a while, that's for sure. < 1258192934 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think they called it crufty < 1258192936 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nerrrrrrrds < 1258193023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258193026 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.120.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258193029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1258193045 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258193045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, G is the first new language in ages that I'm interested in. < 1258193047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Go < 1258193048 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked in #go < 1258193053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's #go-nuts < 1258193057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :492 people < 1258193061 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i worked it out via #golang < 1258193064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawls < 1258193084 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in #go they have blah blah "about Go (the game, not the silly language)" < 1258193124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people are dismissive of it because it has the word Google in it (Bell Labs would be more accurate) and people compare it to C++ and Python and are retards. < 1258193155 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Go(ogle) thing took me a little while to get, and I was a little embarrassed it took me so long < 1258193188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the debugger-in-progress is called ogle < 1258193204 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I like the name, it's good < 1258193208 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's GOod < 1258193215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you crack me up < 1258193217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a watermelon < 1258193219 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the running... mammal thing < 1258193220 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo < 1258193232 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's running, it might be thrown < 1258193239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an otter < 1258193241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1258193244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love its little hands < 1258193245 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1258193250 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otters don't fucking look likfffffffffffff < 1258193252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so helpless < 1258193253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258193255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be an otter < 1258193256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ASK < 1258193376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deficiencies of sprunge.us: can only post via curl, no quick paste method; syntax highlighting is on the resulting URL; syntax highlighting adds line numbers that break stuff < 1258193384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: it's a GOpher < 1258193515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final deficiency: mentions firefox on the homepage < 1258193517 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course < 1258193786 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258193813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah. on classic macos it seems like you need to list all exported symbols from libraries < 1258193818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none are exported by default < 1258193823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will sure make libick a pain < 1258193935 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258193992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258194057 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258194150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am about to write some recursive make. How evil am I? < 1258194179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil < 1258194183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: despicable spam of the netherworlds. but what has that to do with recursive make? < 1258194215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 15.23 on a scale from 0 to 10 < 1258194279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reading is off the scale!) < 1258194756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no anchovies < 1258194772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1258194792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said, nice iwc annotation < 1258194811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right, forgot that bit in it < 1258194838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ was.... strange < 1258194847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that was yesterday heh < 1258194860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't keep track of it's updates atm < 1258194903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a silly pun < 1258195117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I see it now < 1258195149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses the emulator again.
< 1258195351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries emulating curses, but fails
< 1258195376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses libraries on classic Mac SO
< 1258195377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS* < 1258195398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to list all exported symbols. And they must be declared extern first. < 1258195498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258196415 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258197088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I got usage output from ick < 1258197096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick < 1258197109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, c-intercal compiler yes < 1258197114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on classic mac < 1258197123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I haven't managed to build libick yet < 1258197131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a question < 1258197134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an expression of distaste < 1258197135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to manually patch some generated code in the lexer < 1258197139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was quite horrible < 1258197152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flex generated code depending on unistd.h < 1258197164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to talk to ais about that < 1258197185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does uts stand for in uname()s utsname < 1258197233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1258197422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it even is an acronym < 1258197544 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258197737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LdaJ?c ;; fuuuuck those line numbers < 1258197771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm drop the ?c to copy < 1258197780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's still a pain in the ass < 1258197781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that's an issue I never noticed before < 1258197782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the ass < 1258197789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1258197797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a way to do it without copying < 1258197799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. I mostly used it without syntax highlighting < 1258197801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some evil css tricks < 1258197806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but honestly? i rarely need line numbers < 1258197809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be useful < 1258197810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1258197821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin/f845#l47 < 1258197828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i need line numbers when I get "error on line foo" < 1258197832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backgrounds line 47 as yellowish, and jumps about 15 lines above it < 1258197838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can highlight errors < 1258197842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin/f845#l47-52 too < 1258197855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastebin/f845#l47 <-- is that supposed to be a real one or just an example? < 1258197856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258197859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backgrounds the whole thing, jumps about 20 lines (amended :P) above the whole block < 1258197860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example < 1258197870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :github commits do this iirc < 1258197883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm pretty sure I seen it on other pastebins too < 1258197887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258197902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just write a POST-bin (hur hur hur) and stop whining :P < 1258197916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think anything has go highlighting yet though :D < 1258198151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, I just had a ridiculous idea and someone has to hear it in case it manifests < 1258198169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1258198222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "pastebin" actually just lets you post to http://blah/ with some text, and it gives you back a url. going to that url, say http://blah/asdf, executes the file you gave it in a sandbox. < 1258198226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pastebin script looks like... drumroll < 1258198255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(echo "#!/usr/bin/pygments $language"; cat) | curl ... < 1258198259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an awful person < 1258198280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so now ick -@ works in MPW < 1258198280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1258198315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/HXKV < 1258198343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers doing a ridiculous thing
< 1258198369 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be ridiculous < 1258198376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258198390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are the chances for ais showing up today? < 1258198392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel kinda bad even jusst having thought the thoughts < 1258198394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1258198397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very low < 1258198397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 0 < 1258198403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn < 1258198434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i slept 13 hours due to my new unterman sleep schedule < 1258198464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1258198472 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uber <-> unter < 1258198486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1258198486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258198506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i'll just go ahead and ask < 1258198517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I implement rc in go < 1258198521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE SAY NO < 1258198533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't that take some time? < 1258198543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also how goes your webserver, ircd, and so on? < 1258198576 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what have you implemented in go sofar? < 1258198606 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a bf interpreter ;) < 1258198611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, wc, and some io functions, and a binding to uname that doesn't work yet, and echo(1), and some misc code that doesn't really fit into things < 1258198615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my going has been in-head < 1258198618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah bf interp sounds good < 1258198621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I WILL OKLOFOK < 1258198622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i will < 1258198658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "binding to uname" mean? < 1258198680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname() function < 1258198680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives like < 1258198681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information about processor, os < 1258198682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty boring < 1258198721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1258198723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf interp oh-kay < 1258198731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right OKATY < 1258198740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: d'ya think I should use yacc (overkill but sorta fun) or MANUA-PARSE 2000 < 1258198752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yacc handles like... file opening and shit for me, which is nice < 1258198756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have to write some other boilerplate < 1258198760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand < 1258198762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd look so < 1258198764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded < 1258198766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny grammar sitting there < 1258198770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if MANUA-PARSE 2000 is what go's parsing library is called, that! < 1258198778 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah yacc totally < 1258198780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, a BF interpreter bound into uname(2)? That sounds quite an unexpected trick from an OS. < 1258198785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258198798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make the whole thing a yacc file tbh < 1258198801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(goyacc that is) < 1258198814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go yacc yourself" sounds a bit indecent. < 1258198816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I don't need to preparse < 1258198818 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258198819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do the dbc thing < 1258198825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAHY LETSS ogjodfigogIjg < 1258198827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258198828 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258198828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO < 1258198830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1258198831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's < 1258198832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO < 1258198833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha? < 1258198859 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :höhöh < 1258198865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw it seems classic mac os supports shared libraries but not static ones. As in no *.a < 1258198872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ugh < 1258198877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, either you link the object files directly, or you link shared < 1258198896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well that's okay < 1258198898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so yes there are lots of *.o for standard library :D < 1258198901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.os are fine and stuff < 1258198904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOTS < 1258198921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, just archive them up and write code to extract them, voila you invented ar < 1258198930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, StdCRuntime.o is huge btw. < 1258198930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just make folders < 1258198938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc/*.o < 1258198968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where huge = 56K < 1258198973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 68k < 1258198995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh 8K for PPC? < 1258199001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 12k left then huh < 1258199004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that is just a stub for the shared library < 1258199004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyuk hyuk hyuk < 1258199011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1258199335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ick is 348K btw < 1258199366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that was with optimisation off < 1258199394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't rebuild it fully in emulator. need real mac for some of the files (otherwise it crashes) < 1258202885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, know what Print does in the MPW shell? < 1258202921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints a page < 1258202931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so you ran into that before too? < 1258202936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, guess < 1258202947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes those *.ps from the desktop
< 1258203330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of April 2009 dotsrc.org (formerly SunSITE.dk) has been in the process of shutting down the project hosting part. Since we started open source hosting more than 10 years ago, Sourceforge, Freshmeat, Launchpad and a bunch of others have emerged. We don't see the big need for us doing this any more, and will focus on other services. < 1258203342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that that is exactly like committing suicide. < 1258203359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think you're just ending your own life and no bother to anyone else and then you go and destroy the lives of everyone close to you. < 1258203366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much code is lost forever now. < 1258203807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OUCH < 1258203826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relax, AnMaster, an actual person didn't die :P < 1258203876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not. But the code... < 1258203939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to hear a terminally-tired lunatic ramble about his ideas for DVCSs?! < 1258203945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: It's me) < 1258203966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me. I'm being "productive" atm < 1258204040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, by fiddling with C-INTERCAL? < 1258204116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's why I used "" around the word. < 1258204123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm getting somewhere < 1258204124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Yiu gotta be kidding me. How can you encrease power in a smart phone? By writing something new, that uses google servers power.... dont you see that? why "put more cpu and ram" if online merchandising do it for you? what if you are fuckinf far of anything? where you gonna buy a fucking cpu? come on, be smart]] < 1258204131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can I vnc? :3 < 1258204133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty please? < 1258204135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^___^ < 1258204138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to what? < 1258204143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheepshaver < 1258204151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't think sheepshaver supports that < 1258204158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I'm doing this on a real mac atm < 1258204158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need to < 1258204162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tough shit < 1258204172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because sheepshaver keeps crashing too much < 1258204174 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bored guys < 1258204177 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an idea < 1258204180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough shit? I need more fibre in my diet. < 1258204224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however one of the keys seems to be broken on that old ibook. Scissors style, but the things that hold the key to the scissors seems broken. < 1258204232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very annoying since it is the cmd key < 1258204267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swaps it with the "enter key" that is the same size but on the other side of space (why is there an enter key there at all btw?)
< 1258204276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy answering dialogs, iirc. < 1258204281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get ick working on an actual Mac Plus. < 1258204283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258204298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can it handle 32 bit stuff? I forgot < 1258204323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc some 68k had a 32-bit adressing mode < 1258204327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addressing* < 1258204346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macintosh Plus can address 4 mebibytes of RAM. < 1258204351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1258204354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can address 8. < 1258204356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only fits 4. < 1258204362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if you want I can give you a hqx file of what I have so far < 1258204367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1258204377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1258204400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I could do *.img.bin too probably. No way I could manage .dmg however < 1258204420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'mon listen to my VCS ideas! They're... almost as weird as arch? < 1258204423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1258204478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_va9O40qIhaE/StfekoB1W8I/AAAAAAAAB70/G32jsTp_BWU/s1600-h/ottosm.jpg < 1258204524 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute! < 1258204645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw it seems MPW has some weird file matching thing where [a-z0-9]*.c works but .*.c doesn't. Nor does *.c < 1258204654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is neither glob nor usual regex < 1258204660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't find actual docs for it < 1258204879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are about 20 special constructs within regular expressions, all of which are cryptically described when you execute the command line "Help Patterns" within the MPW Shell. I'll mention some of the more useful ones here. -- http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/issue_26/mpw.html < 1258204898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"?" corresponds to the normal regex "." there. < 1258204924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ?*.c then, I think. < 1258205000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh if you know MPW... What is the difference between one and two of those old-style s-es in makefile rules (those symbols that look like f) < 1258205024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: vs :: < 1258205030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: is that all rules get executd < 1258205032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have duplicates < 1258205036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need all of them to be :: < 1258205060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258205122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean like foo :: bar quux bar will force bar to be built twice if it wasn't built before? < 1258205187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258205190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo:: < 1258205199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo hardcore anal meanderings < 1258205200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo:: < 1258205205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo now only half price < 1258205209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make foo < 1258205215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also read http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Double_002dColon though I guess ehird's explanation made that redundant. < 1258205215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would one have multiple such heh < 1258205216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo hardcore anal meanderings < 1258205216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcore anal meanderings < 1258205219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo now only half price < 1258205221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now only half price < 1258205224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: different files, modules etc < 1258205334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258205377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't you have different rule names to build different files? < 1258205439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same file < 1258205441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or phony target < 1258205448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different makefiles < 1258205449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1258205455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different makefiles, modules of the build system < 1258205552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258205561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that would work < 1258205614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the license would be on a short .r file with no copyright header or such that came with an MPW example
< 1258205647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that might be an issue < 1258205664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial things are uncopyrightable. < 1258205690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile began as based on an example makefile, but it has not been completely rewritten. < 1258205694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advise you to stop worrying; you're more likely to be bitten by the thousands of patents any program you write will inevitably violate. < 1258205711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1258205819 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258205940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, why can't you run sheepshaver yourself? < 1258205962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have your porting work — and also, it's unstable as a dick on an. Um. dick. < 1258205964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc I read that it *does* work on OS X < 1258206013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "my porting work"? would that be the hqx file? < 1258206027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You modded C-INTERCAL, did you not? < 1258206028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could send that over easily. And yes so far things build but are mostly untested. < 1258206062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, custom build system + manual written config.h, plus a few minor patches to the source (in all cases code that tried to use unistd.h) < 1258206087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most annoying change was to the *generated* parts of lexer.c < 1258206093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to properly solve that < 1258206119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe implement a dummy isatty() for it to link to instead? < 1258206134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dummy fileno() possibly. But it never complained about that < 1258206170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Tom Lehrer is STILL alive. < 1258206216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow indeed. He wrote some awesome lyrics. < 1258206235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(catchy melodies too) < 1258206247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure he pilfered a lot of those melodies :P < 1258206265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably, but probably not all. < 1258206696 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258207777 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258207942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in case you actually decide to be interested in it: ick-mac.img.bin is at http://omploader.org/vMnJwMw things build bure are mostly untested (and I very much suspects that ick will need some patching so it doesn't try to call a compiler, but instead prints out some MPW commands for you to run) < 1258207954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that contains pre-compiled files < 1258207962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still needs MPW since things are built as MPW tools < 1258208050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that has some stuff not relevant for mac build system stripped. Could easy be added back from ick-0.29 download < 1258208068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be interested if you're interested about my vcs stuff < 1258208088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, tell me about it < 1258208096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is taking a pause anyway
< 1258208100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the catch < 1258208111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch for? < 1258208115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this :P < 1258208123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that you *have* to try it out? < 1258208141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i'd be _interested_ < 1258208152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define interested then < 1258208168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attentively (as much as i can in this state) listening and taking it in and offering comment. :P < 1258208218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, not really worth it then. Anyway it shouldn't be hard for you to set things up. Apart from, you know, the whole thing ;P < 1258208238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks that i preferred it when i was sure you weren't listening < 1258208242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, downloading those "fixes" from apple and manually apply them to the installed mpw < 1258208252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me, I will read it when I get back (phone) < 1258208265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy. < 1258208752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1258208786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up ick error messages
< 1258209195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting. It gives different errors for files generated on mac and files generated on unix < 1258209200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something is broken < 1258209500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh very broken < 1258209592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1258209675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SO WANNA HEAR :D < 1258209685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a file with mixed CR and LF is quite painful to fix up < 1258209694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is quite painful to fix up < 1258209717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer.mac.c: ASCII C program text, with very long lines, with CRLF, CR, LF line terminators < 1258209774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those CRLF seems just to be two newlines, one mac one and one *nix one < 1258209787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION converts all the input files on mac to CR line endings
< 1258209896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1258209902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICL000I PLEASE DO ,10 <- #1 < 1258209902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ON THE WAY TO 2 < 1258209902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CORRECT SOURCE AND RESUBNIT < 1258209908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't that is supposed to happen < 1258209919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what was miscompiled in ick
< 1258209932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generated file is completely wrong < 1258209964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OI < 1258209965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVCS < 1258209976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. I told you to write it before < 1258209978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1258209984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay! < 1258209996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this gets an augur like monologue, chip in and i promise i won't ignore you < 1258210008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most modern VCSs are based on basically, trees of history < 1258210012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch, patch, patch, patch, end < 1258210021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't really track changes to the code in this sense < 1258210031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they track snapshots in time, not the actual changes to where it is now < 1258210052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea is to sort of "inline" this history into an actual tracking, sort of like an "enhanced" nested patch sort of thing < 1258210056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the main thing is < 1258210062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about darcs here? It isn't exactly a tree of history there < 1258210069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's closer to my idea, yes < 1258210075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258210076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, each repository is this thing < 1258210081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the interesting bit is < 1258210090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my operations involve multiple repositories < 1258210094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you may know the common one < 1258210104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get changes from this repository B into A, and merge if required < 1258210105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge? pull? < 1258210110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258210112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with mine, it's varargs, so to speak < 1258210117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... < 1258210120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass it a bunch of repositories, and it will merge them < 1258210127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without favouring any < 1258210130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with user input < 1258210148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258210149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance, you can select some features people have pointed you to and merge them all into the mainline in one merge < 1258210166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting thing is just how independent these repositories become < 1258210176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258210186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no special pulling, you just rsync the repository down (using your existing one as a base to transfer less, just as an optimisation) < 1258210200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it merges these repositories into a new repository C, which it replaces your original one with (in normal use) < 1258210217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically, we have this unified thing that's a repository, but it's also sort of one big massive, nested change < 1258210238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it means that operations like merging can work on an arbitrary number of repositories elegantly < 1258210254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't have to do special pulling algorithms; just download the new repository and merge that one and your old one < 1258210258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh okay < 1258210262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed pushing is the same < 1258210267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh? any bit conffusing? :P < 1258210272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confusing < 1258210283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how can merge work on arbitrary number of repos? < 1258210297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, diff2 and diff3 are rather different iirc. < 1258210309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, and it will of course require user operation < 1258210311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes there will be conficts < 1258210324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the thing, you do these N+ repo merges already < 1258210328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do them as separate options < 1258210332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you finally solve all the little conflicts < 1258210333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what if you have 5 different conflicting changes of the same few lines? < 1258210336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and introduce a whole new batch < 1258210337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will you show the user? < 1258210341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see what i mean? < 1258210343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these problems ALREADY HAPPEN < 1258210356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a marked improvement — once a conflict is resolved, that's it < 1258210362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more disturbing it as you go onto the next repo to move < 1258210363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but you normally merge them in pairs or such first. < 1258210368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1258210380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internal algorithm *could* be just a bunch of diff2/diff3s talking to each other a lot < 1258210381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you want to merge all at once unless I misunderstood you? < 1258210384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the devil's in the details < 1258210391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm fairly sure it's doable < 1258210396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the implications are great < 1258210410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when did you last use diff3? < 1258210429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to a diff2 it is rather confusing < 1258210432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure when but I think the place was called Hell. < 1258210439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly! < 1258210446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, of course actually doing it is the hard part. < 1258210473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think if you're trying to mix 4 repositories into your mainline, resolving conflicts each time, only to have your resolvings reversed by the next merge or two isn't the way to go about it! < 1258210475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is why I'm wondering how on earth you would represent a 4 way-or-more conflict to the user < 1258210485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see :P < 1258210490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly it gives a purely functional sort of vibe < 1258210497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1258210498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything seems to be a function of some repos to a new repo < 1258210513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you merge A, B, and C, producing ABC (let's call it D) < 1258210525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A was your working copy, you throw it away and switch to D < 1258210529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway merging one at a time has an advantage: less confusion. < 1258210530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this happens automatically of course) < 1258210540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... splitting repos could be interesting < 1258210544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging condenses many repos into one < 1258210553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :splitting expands one repo into many < 1258210565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could see that being useful for focused work < 1258210577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: less confusing, maybe, but more tedium and hard work. Anyway, I think the internal implications will rise to other UI improvements. < 1258210584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not like it's a one-trick pony. < 1258210584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why less confusion? Because you will have less code to consider. < 1258210609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the merging was just an example. < 1258210645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same reason you prefer many small commits over one huge. Because it is easier to understand what you have changed. (And easier to bisect, if it comes to that) < 1258210658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which is why the merge will be represented by little choices. < 1258210672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258210681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can still just be "which of these two is right" while still making sure that doesn't invalidate another choice on another merge. < 1258210697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how would one dig back for older versions in your system? Same way as usual? < 1258210705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, being able to merge all of them at once means that the automatic merging should work better < 1258210709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you want to bisect a regression or such < 1258210712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it'll have more variations on each relevant snippet < 1258210717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is often very very useful) < 1258210720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so more of an idea of the structure, you see? < 1258210729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, yes, unless I think of something better < 1258210744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that'll be quite easy to do, I think, will be `svn blame` but per-character < 1258210756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually highlight the exact blocks people are responsible for and the like < 1258210757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiently < 1258210766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It can still just be "which of these two is right" while still making sure that doesn't invalidate another choice on another merge." <-- what about "neither, because this change and the one 20 lines above affect each other, hand editing the whole file is needed" < 1258210770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258210776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is a problem with current systems too < 1258210778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hello there Mr. Edge Case :P < 1258210789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except I hit that more often that I wanted to. < 1258210790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1258210795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the merging tool will be advanced enough to handle that. < 1258210811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would have to be aware of the language structure to do so < 1258210824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to edit the file manually < 1258210837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a structured VCS is an idea i'm very interested in < 1258210841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk has that, I think < 1258210846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think monticello is structured < 1258210851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like know if a variable was renamed in branch A, but another use of it was added in branch A. < 1258210868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there isn't any strong ai so sucks to be you :P < 1258210872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to handle that would be insane < 1258210890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine being linus, I'd sure prefer one difficult merge over 6 tedious merges < 1258210897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly, a hand editing file with different versions in <<<< ... ----- ... >>> style merge will always be useful sometimes < 1258210900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I know are wasting my time with some resolutions < 1258210904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a hand/hand/ < 1258210916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some cases *will* otherwise need a strong ai < 1258210977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure try to make it as smart as possible. I'm not against that. I'm just saying that there should still be an option to do a more classical manual merge of conflicts in files. Because there will be cases needing it sometimes. < 1258210989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1258210996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that much of an idiot, you know, to get rid of manual merges. < 1258211006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't completely sure about that ;P < 1258211027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, too-smart merges are a *bad* thing: you think that merge went through fine, but it actually messed up your source by second guessing you instead of going "hey i'm confused". < 1258211090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, asking when confused, but providing the "smart" merges as options would be useful maybe? < 1258211096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1258211102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1258211111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably have pluggagble merges. < 1258211120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make it. < 1258211135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"press m for manual, a for aborting merge, 1 for smart option one, 2 for other even smarter option, 3 for really cool option" < 1258211137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the best protocol for rsync transport, btw? (for speed). rsync://, isn't it? < 1258211159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that needs an rsync server set up and listening. And security is... bad. < 1258211169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for anonymous access. < 1258211171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure would work for anonymous pulling < 1258211182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh+rsync for developer access though < 1258211183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't do rsync over http can you? < 1258211191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not afaik < 1258211202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsync — Optimised rsync over HTTP < 1258211202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document describes the thinking behind zsync, a new file transfer program which implements efficient download of only the content of a file which is ... < 1258211202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i never said anything < 1258211209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, ssh isn't really an option for anonymous pulling. < 1258211224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it? I have seen anonymous ssh < 1258211235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was openbsd or netbsd ports/pkgsrc thing < 1258211240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I pulled over anon ssh < 1258211243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ssh is slow, bulky, and there's always that risk of an exploit... < 1258211247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anon ssh + cvs iirc < 1258211270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess rsync:// for public and ssh:// for private is best. < 1258211280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can use another sshd. One that doesn't need to run as root. < 1258211296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc launchpad uses such a one < 1258211352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1258211360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why bother if rsync is faster and uses less resources? < 1258211379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to be fair, my distro will probably use http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html for the ssh/sshd by default. < 1258211386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how paranoid you and your users are < 1258211402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's public it's public :P < 1258211412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that needs to be supported is only using ssh:// for stuff that needs authentication. < 1258211422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. have a "push" location as separate. < 1258211458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is for a distro you could just sign every package < 1258211481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send it over plaintext < 1258211512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant that I'll be operating the server on my distro. < 1258211521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So technically rsync wouldn't really be lighter than dropbear sshd. < 1258211528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe a signed listing with the checksums of all rsynced files? that would provide some security against tampering with the rsynced data < 1258211539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking about package distribution now? < 1258211548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, about repos < 1258211557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted to sign the packages I'd GPG-sign a file with checksums of all the files in the tree. < 1258211561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1258211569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync:// can be tampered with in transit? < 1258211573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to make sure that the anon checkouts weren't tampered with < 1258211577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, man in the middle attack? < 1258211579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't see why you'd trust data from me anyway. :P < 1258211584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fake your server or such < 1258211596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, the ever-trustable, professional ehird website. < 1258211605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My reputation is through the roof. < 1258211656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, I could just GPG-sign the hash of the commit. < 1258211664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PGP-sign. GPG is just an implementation... < 1258211671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but I might want to trust the original devs of some project using ehirdvcs. And if I happen to live in some country where someone could want to tamper with source code I want to check out and run... < 1258211672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hash is calculatable from the commit, so... < 1258211681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does any other vcs handle this? < 1258211687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most anonymous checkouts are git:// or http://. < 1258211694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, those that do it over https or ssh could I guess < 1258211702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but how many open source projects are that? < 1258211719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm let me check my current checkouts < 1258211774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, nothing would stop you setting up an anonymous ssh account for it if you really wanted to. < 1258211779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be silly, though. < 1258211787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For most things. < 1258211804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URL: https://desmume.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/desmume/trunk/desmume < 1258211807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one at least < 1258211860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, DS emulators. < 1258211870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most trust-needing pieces of software known to man. < 1258211878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well no. < 1258211880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258211885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it is that way < 1258211897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I assume this would work for any sf.net project < 1258211908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but nobody uses sf.net. < 1258211927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I rarely end up there nowadays, and it's usually a last-resort grab for obscure software. < 1258211984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258212031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw a few more too. Might have been llvm (don't have a trunk checkout of it around currently) < 1258212036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else < 1258212249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. error on a line but the line number not matching < 1258212256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I can't find anything like that line nearby < 1258212258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go doesn't geet that :P < 1258212259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*get < 1258212271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is the MPW C compiler. < 1258212278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complaining on line 2229 < 1258212281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all c compilers get it < 1258212306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no #line directive in the file. And there is nothing close to it even nearby < 1258212330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you tested cfunge with tcc? < 1258212355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, some time ago, failed to handle some C99 thing. I think it was for (int i = ....) < 1258212378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, declaring the variable there instead of at the start of the function < 1258212388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, can I try it? :P < 1258212397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr branch lp:cfunge right? < 1258212463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work < 1258212468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell is: < 1258212476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick_createdata icd[]={ < 1258212477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1258212481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considered invalid < 1258212484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the MPW compiler < 1258212488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE YOUR MOM < 1258212490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it barfs on }; < 1258212498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sad < 1258212499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error expression expected" < 1258212501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1258212510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles tcc with gcc, installs, compiles tcc with tcc, installs
< 1258212516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's an expression, a sad one < 1258212520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that error makes no sense then < 1258212525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, tcc is elf only >_< < 1258212537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and coff < 1258212564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mac os 9 seems to use xcoff and PEF < 1258212566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for PPC code < 1258212614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEF is for executables and shared libraries. xcoff is for object files, executables and shared libraries < 1258212618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEF is default < 1258212631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure why have two overlapping ones
< 1258212654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi AnMaster, wget http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/tinycc/tcc-0.9.25.tar.bz2; tar xf tcc-0.9.25.tar.bz2; cd tcc-0.9.25; ./configure --prefix=~/tcc; make; make install; cd ..; rm -rf tcc-0.9.25; tar xf tcc-0.9.25.tar.bz2; cd tcc-0.9.25; ./configure --prefix=~/tcc --cc=tcc; make; make install < 1258212655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258212671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would use ~/local/tcc < 1258212674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and busy atm < 1258212676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then... do so :P < 1258212693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plus does it really work as 64-bit? < 1258212703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot
< 1258212707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCC version 0.9.25 is the first that supports the x86-64 target. Thanks to Shinichiro Hamaji for this. < 1258212711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shinh of golf.shinh.org < 1258212715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our beloved anarchy golf < 1258212723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have quite some trust in his skills, at least. < 1258212741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could just build the "cross compilers". tcc itself should run on amd64 just fine. < 1258212789 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you fight considerably less with AnMaster these days, same thing happened with you and me, do you learn to love idiots, or just eventually realize at some point they won't change? < 1258212800 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258212805 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1258212814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, there might be a third option < 1258212819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's that < 1258212828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they change? yeah right < 1258212829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, that one would just upset ehird < 1258212830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're all growing up and becoming less stupid < 1258212837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, no that he changes < 1258212840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,* < 1258212845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be (a) < 1258212845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you meant < 1258212852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok already said that < 1258212864 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258212864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really. < 1258212870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep, man. deep < 1258212879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure (a) is a subset of (c) < 1258212880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't really argue argue with oklofok, it's more like, you know, killing each other < 1258212881 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be b < 1258212889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1258212892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is like, ripping out his mother's eyeballs and stomping on them and feeding them to satan < 1258212904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the change here would be in like "you becoming more mature" < 1258212917 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster doesn't make it easy does he < 1258212939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: have you noticed that the option AnMaster is proposing is a thinly-veiled "you finally realised with increased maturity that i am right" < 1258212950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiiiinteresting < 1258212962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say that. No one is static. < 1258212968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone changes. < 1258212974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually only noticed i have a hamburger i could be eating < 1258212981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is now a zen buddhist < 1258212987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe that is a subset of hamburger? < 1258212989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets ->
< 1258212994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258212995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a superset < 1258213000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more hamburgers you could be eating < 1258213003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than there are hamburgers < 1258213107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually this seems to be an ick bug < 1258213114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258213117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo[] = {}; < 1258213120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't valid C89 is it? < 1258213132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1258213150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the size of that variable < 1258213180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-std=c89 -pedantic with gcc gives: < 1258213204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1258213205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer.c:2228: warning: ISO C forbids empty initializer braces < 1258213205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer.c:2228: error: zero or negative size array 'icd' < 1258213216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry synergy copy-paste issues < 1258213219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took some time < 1258213236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't have a 0-sized variable! < 1258213245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *foo; < 1258213246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can < 1258213249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called *foo < 1258213263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only as a pointer to. But that wasn't what happened above < 1258213265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TURKEY_BOMB) < 1258213267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is an ick bug < 1258213269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and *foo is size 0 < 1258213271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is an ick bug < 1258213278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the actual pointer is not size 0 < 1258213304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't have void bar; < 1258213305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either < 1258213310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in standard C at least < 1258213316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're complaining about C++ taking time to compile and link? That's hard to believe." < 1258213318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void* bar yes < 1258213322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fig a. cracksmoker < 1258213338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh, that is unrelated to this right? < 1258213348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258213398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is one of the reasons Lisp doesn't get anywhere. The trend to promote features so clever that you stop thinking about your problem and start thinking about the clever features. CL's loop is so powerful that people invented functional programming so that they'd never have to use it." < 1258213500 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hard to believe because it's like complaining about an idiot being stupid? < 1258213515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he told him to uses precompiled headers and a fast disk < 1258213517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use < 1258213526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1258213528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the post was about go by the creator of bittorrent < 1258213537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they remarked how shitty C++ was for compiling so much more slowly than go < 1258213559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah maybe that C++ can build in 30 seconds with that precompiled shit and the expense on a fast disk, meanwhile go did it in less than a second < 1258213570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(go builds its entire standard library, with one core, in less than ten seconds...) < 1258213631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it do much optimisation? < 1258213635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just basic stuff < 1258213675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does some optimisation, but the minimalist bent of the libraries and the good design mean they it's fast even with minor optimisation. < 1258213677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that includes stuff like interprodecural optimisation, I'm extremely impressed. < 1258213686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258213688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that most optimisation... really doesn't make much of a difference at all. < 1258213724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it compile to machine code or byte code? < 1258213725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the linker is really fast too... < 1258213728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Machine code. < 1258213741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object code format is not .o, though. < 1258213754 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is it .go? < 1258213754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries are .a, binaries are binaries, but intermediate objects are .N where N is the number for the architecture < 1258213772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 = 386, 8g is compiler, 8l linker, .8 objects, 8.out default obj name < 1258213775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has anyone implemented go in go yet < 1258213777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for 6 = amd64, 5 = arm < 1258213778 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the game < 1258213781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the plan 9 toolchain < 1258213788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 for arm? huh? < 1258213790 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... i could be named gogo. < 1258213796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the actual plan9port linkers modified a bit, and compilers written in the same style as the plan 9 c compilers for the go < 1258213800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's arbitrary :P < 1258213806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes very < 1258213808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is from x86 and 386 < 1258213811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is from 64 < 1258213813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 who knows < 1258213816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just names < 1258213830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it faster than tcc? < 1258213832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the linker is really fast. < 1258213839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking like instant fast. < 1258213841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's interprocedural optimization? < 1258213842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hell yes. < 1258213853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tcc is fast at compiling though < 1258213859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably one of the fastest compilers for a "real" language in existence. < 1258213859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it did ick in like 5 seconds. < 1258213859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the fastest. < 1258213861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or less < 1258213870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whole. Standard. Library. Including creating the .a's. < 1258213873 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean can i see an example of dat < 1258213875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In less than 10 seconds. < 1258213884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including make overhead. Recursive make. < 1258213889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no preprocessor I guess? < 1258213889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The stdlib is >100k lines of Go. < 1258213892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In about 9 seconds. < 1258213902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cached in memory I assume? < 1258213906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1258213908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From disk. < 1258213923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, the gc Go compiler can process something like 10,500 lines of code a second. < 1258213927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fast disk then. or all in a few files < 1258213930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it SSD? < 1258213943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have been SSD, but I don't think so. These times are similar to those by others. < 1258213945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no. < 1258213947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's split into many files. < 1258213950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a laptop. < 1258213955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a regular disk or SSD. Probably disk. < 1258213963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless, the source files are quite small. < 1258213971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not a lot of seeking then < 1258213977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not that small. < 1258213981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because disk seeks sounds like the main oerhead here < 1258213984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you just trying to find excuses to say it's bad or not fast? < 1258213990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,500 lines of code a second. < 1258213997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No other compiler for a real language comes anywhere near close. < 1258213998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. I'm just wondering how fast. < 1258214012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that this is from the guys who brought you C, Unix and Plan 9. < 1258214018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're *really* good at compilers and operating systems. < 1258214025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how long did it take when the source files was cached in memory already? < 1258214026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best in the world. < 1258214028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more interesting < 1258214031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. < 1258214037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golang.org/pkg/ < 1258214040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole stdlib. < 1258214044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the package list. < 1258214056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>100,000 lines of code, in 9 seconds. Seriously, you've gotta be impressed. < 1258214065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But question is how impressed. < 1258214081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past the minimum bound it's so high anyway it doesn't really matter. < 1258214148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, no other compiler really comes close. < 1258214159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like a second or so difference will knock it off top spot. < 1258214185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wc -l claims ick ends up at 20998 lines. tcc managing that on a pentium3 in about 5 seconds, including link time and such isn't too bad. < 1258214206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1258214213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever, Go is really fast. < 1258214216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, time for make on clean but configured source tree. < 1258214218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, rewatched the video. < 1258214229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go tree is about 120,000 lines of code, build took 9.231 seconds. < 1258214243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which comes to 12999.675 ~= 13,000 lines of code a second. < 1258214245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is indeed impressive. But what specs was that < 1258214252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit better than a pentium3 I bet < 1258214259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a MacBook Pro of some description, I think the 15" model < 1258214264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google-supplied, almost certainly < 1258214271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they're not really Mac guys, I'd guess < 1258214278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not too high specs < 1258214291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would be better than an old dell pentium3 system with a slow pata disk in any case < 1258214314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I concede, Go is nothing special, tcc is totally kicking awesome. Happy now? < 1258214324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not saying Go is not special < 1258214347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree it is impressive. But I just want to point out that it isn't *that* special. tcc manage quite well < 1258214356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go seems faster than tcc still < 1258214366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from some quick estimates. < 1258214390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing to gcc the difference is extreme < 1258214393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also have to remember that Go is much more intensive to compile than C. < 1258214397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the method lookups. < 1258214398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to any C++ compiler.... < 1258214402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concurrency stuff. < 1258214404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1258214406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about preprocessor? < 1258214418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No preprocessor, but it does do a lot of clever dependency stuff, which is more cost. < 1258214424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't really compare it to a C compiler. < 1258214424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1258214436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially not on such a pathological codebase as ick. < 1258214442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still include files seems to take quite some time when there are many and deeply nested. < 1258214456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice wording :) < 1258214470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering "Cthuolic" :D < 1258214487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fun fact: The Go compiler is probably fast at least in part because it doesn't use libc.) < 1258214504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It uses plan9port's lib9; the Plan 9 libc ported to Unixes.) < 1258214512 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258214515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that is too extreme. It is quite ok C. At least in the compiler itself. Less so in the generated code of course < 1258214525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is quite ok C? < 1258214529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ick. < 1258214533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1258214534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, parts of the compiler itself < 1258214537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly is pathological, though. < 1258214548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Russ Cox, the plan9port maintainer, is part of Go, but I imagine they used lib9 before that, being Plan 9 weenies)) < 1258214550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the generates parts I agree are "Cthuolic" < 1258214563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, oil generated files, and generated c code for intercal programs < 1258214573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil is *definitely* "Cthuolic" < 1258214593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is Russ Cox part of Go? < 1258214594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258214603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And Ken Thompson. < 1258214604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what file is he in? < 1258214606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Rob Pike. < 1258214608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258214610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hardy har har < 1258214615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ricer.c < 1258214631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it actually took me several seconds to figure out you meant "go team" < 1258214713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is libc really that slow? < 1258214793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, but it's certainly bloated, even BSD libc. < 1258214812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan9port's lib9 is very lean and mean in comparison, especially since it does away with a lot of legacy interfaces and adds some of its own. < 1258214823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://swtch.com/usr/local/plan9/src/lib9/ btw.) < 1258214919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow bash just crashed on me < 1258214920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ubuntu < 1258214927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double free < 1258214983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1258214997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun how minimalist the plan 9 c compilers are < 1258215001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no -l, you just pass in the name of the .a < 1258215115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ick_lose(IE000, 304, " PLEASE ""KNOC""K BEFORE ENTERING\n\ < 1258215115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "); < 1258215120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messy < 1258215252 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258215750 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258215765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1258215767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1258215788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1258215791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found some bugs in ick < 1258215795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me pastebin a list < 1258215802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi both of you < 1258215825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see http://sprunge.us/TDPZ < 1258215851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a rather serious code gen bug at the end < 1258215852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a pastebin? < 1258215860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258215862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a porn site < 1258215869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it is < 1258215878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll never click on any of your links again, AnMaster < 1258215879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Things like the GNU binutils ld (and by extension, gcc) cheerfully accept plain old ".a" files too; the difference there (I think) is that if you say "libfoo.a", it'll just add all object files in foo.a, and you need "-lfoo" for the more intelligent "include objects only if they contain symbols that other files refer to" thing. < 1258215885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does appear to be a pastebin, after all < 1258215904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew. It could have been ASCII porn. Your w3m was at risk. < 1258215912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a pornbin, but AnMaster doesn't know how to use it < 1258215924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, paste in the indecent (.)(.) and provide a link! < 1258215932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the point of it is that the way to add a paste is: cat ick-mpw-issues.txt | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us < 1258215935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1258215943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1258215947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless use of cat and curl feature. < 1258215949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me fix that for you. < 1258215958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl -F 'sprunge=yy_is_interactive = file ? (isatty( fileno(file) ) > 0) : 0; < 1258216318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, but mac doesn't use autoconf, so I'll need to update config.h I guess < 1258216324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we want yy_is_interactive to be 0 in that case < 1258216337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I told you autotools was unacceptable < 1258216339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you listen?! < 1258216341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it isn't < 1258216347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't support mac os! < 1258216353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :platforms on which it doesn't run can have their own config.h bundled < 1258216362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have written a nice, portable k&r c configurator with just a few times more work and provided an EQUAL EXPERIENCE TO EVERYONE < 1258216365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://sprunge.us/UIaA < 1258216365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258216369 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.120.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258216370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell me how bad that diff looks < 1258216384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one is generated on *nix the other on mac < 1258216387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll shut up if y'all help me find out how to get files into a vm so i can get ick working < 1258216388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258216388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1258216390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1258216391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258216393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH SYSTEM 6 < 1258216397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the ick_abstained line looks very wrong < 1258216404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have a volume called "unix"? < 1258216408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the vm < 1258216415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or maybe that needs system 7 < 1258216417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't set it up yet < 1258216419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ooh, it looks like the mac version isn't linking in syslib < 1258216424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, otherwise hmount to mount and copy it over < 1258216443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it should be. it complained about that first but I copied syslib to the current directory, and it stopped complaining < 1258216465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the mac version has an E000 error on /every single line/ < 1258216477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. Any idea what might be wrong basically < 1258216493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexing failure < 1258216500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly a really persistent parsing failure, but that's less likely < 1258216507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway tht isatty line, I think it complained about fileno too. something about fileno prototype not matching < 1258216511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't link syslib because it was unreferenced < 1258216527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define isatty 0 < 1258216528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and things complain about getc being defined in standard library as well as in lexer.c < 1258216530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved < 1258216532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go. < 1258216538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, < 1258216542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define isatty(x) 0 < 1258216542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, saying that it is undefined which is called < 1258216560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I /knew/ that getc hack would come back to bite us more than once < 1258216577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't me who wrote it originally, but it's really hacky and looks really problematic < 1258216579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does that getc thing do? < 1258216589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the normal one doesn't < 1258216592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, getc is a macro < 1258216596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so C-INTERCAL #undefs it < 1258216600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and substitutes its own getc < 1258216619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has already lead to a problem once with the new getc calling itself recursively, which I fixed by bypassing stdio on file read < 1258216628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it isn't iirc. the mac claims it is a function in the libc thingy < 1258216635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems it's lead to another one where getc isn't actually a macro < 1258216675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs System 6
< 1258216677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could fix it using the C++ keyword hack < 1258216678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not just rename the function if you need the special version... < 1258216683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no idea < 1258216693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't write C-INTERCAL originally < 1258216702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it would be too hard to get traditional lexen using some other function < 1258216722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, #define getc overriden_getc should work < 1258216740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get it to the top of lexer.c somehow < 1258216752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? what does c++ has to do with this < 1258216755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you run sheepshaver at >original speed? < 1258216765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? I never saw that option < 1258216770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini vmac does 8x unless you change it, which is nice but doesn't feel kosher :P < 1258216777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use the svn version of sheepshaver with experimental JIT support < 1258216793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa 2006 < 1258216793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very svn < 1258216793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite reasonably fast < 1258216793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so fast then < 1258216794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah < 1258216819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it runs about the same speed as my old ibook. A little faster for some stuff (boots faster, probably due to faster disk) but a little slower for some other stuff < 1258216825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like graphics < 1258216830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, game graphics < 1258216835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GUI is snappy < 1258216892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, I did get beer.c generated on unix and with that code gen bug fixed to compile on mac against libick. Worked. As an MPW tool too < 1258216893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImportFl is an application to use in Mini vMac (version 3.0.0 or later) to import files into the emulated computer from the real computer. < 1258216893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When ImportFl is the active application running in the emulated computer, then any of the methods normally used to mount a disk image will instead import a file. For example, dragging the icon of the file to be imported into the Mini vMac window. < 1258216893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: When attempting to use ImportFl, if you see a dialog asking if you want to initialize the disk, choose “Eject”, not “Initialize”! This will happen if ImportFl is not actually the active application, in which case the file you are attempting to import is treated as a disk image. Choosing “Initialize” will turn it into a valid disk image, destroying parts of the previous content. < 1258216896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImportFl is mostly useful for importing archives, since it only imports the data fork of a file, not Macintosh specific information such as the resource fork, the file type, the file creator, and comments. < 1258216899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet! < 1258216918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so if I can get the odd bug in that diff fixed so it can actually generate correct code itself.. < 1258216929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no clue what could be wrong there < 1258216969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be wrong where? < 1258217007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHO, found it < 1258217027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, running MPW will be such such fun in this tiny, black-and-white display < 1258217035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newline mapping for ick: \n becomes \n, \r\n becomes \n, \r\r becomes \r, \r on its own becomes a null string < 1258217043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is correct for Windows and DOS, but not classic Mac < 1258217057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. Where does one fix it. Needs to be fixed for ick and for oil < 1258217071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin2c seems to work fine < 1258217091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ick, it can be fixed inside getc by swapping \n and \r immediately before the if (bangflag) check < 1258217103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's in lexer.l) < 1258217109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um I have both CR and LF files < 1258217118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need it to handle both < 1258217125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what bbedit lite do you have? < 1258217130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does ick work on a CR INTERCAL file? does it work on an LF INTERCAL file? < 1258217134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 4.6, why? < 1258217138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, too new < 1258217145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wayback Machine is down for scheduled maintenance. < 1258217146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAGE < 1258217152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, neither. But "doesn't work" in different ways < 1258217158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the two sorts of error? < 1258217171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diff you showed me is clearly the wrong line ending, as none of the lines parsed at all < 1258217186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would hide all the other errors; if you're compiling every line into a syntax error, most of the code never runs < 1258217190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error in the other case would be more interesting < 1258217195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with \n it seems like those comments containing the original intercal each contain the whole original file with newlines stripped < 1258217203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't look too closely < 1258217205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it! < 1258217208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads bbedit
< 1258217216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember that \r and \n are swapped by the standard library < 1258217230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ooh < 1258217236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a lot of sense, actually < 1258217246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's failing to parse both ways roudn < 1258217248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*round < 1258217257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the error message is the /line/ of the original source that wasn't parsed < 1258217282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you run a simple file with \r line endings through ick -d, and paste the corresponding debug output? < 1258217287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple INTERCAL file, that is < 1258217288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. And I only tried all LF and all CR. I guess I could try all possible combos for ick-wrap.c syslib.i and beer.i < 1258217300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, give me a short one then < 1258217307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer.i is long < 1258217314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shortest possible one would be nice < 1258217338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pit/tests/limits.i is probably about the right length < 1258217350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Size: 872K < 1258217350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type: Evaluation Copy < 1258217350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registration Fee is $30.00 after 15 days < 1258217350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimum Requirements: < 1258217351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : · System 6 < 1258217351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download Time: 5 minutes at 28.8 kbps < 1258217352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This software is Year 2000 compliant. < 1258217354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—http://download.mindspring.com/mac/stuffitlite.html < 1258217367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you planning to pay the reg fee? < 1258217371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so -c -d ? < 1258217377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or exactly what flags < 1258217379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -d implies -c < 1258217380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think they'd let me even if I wanted to. < 1258217382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do just -d by itself < 1258217384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1258217390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"StuffItLite36_Installer.sit" < 1258217406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalm
< 1258217410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is spewing output to my mpw worksheet. Guess I'll redirect it < 1258217423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, laugh. < 1258217423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if that means what I think it means, I agree < 1258217431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.sit is indeed the Stuffit format < 1258217435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :P < 1258217443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that stdout or stderr? < 1258217455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't remember offhand < 1258217460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably stderr, though < 1258217462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks up an hqx bbedit until that conundrum is sollve
< 1258217467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sollve/solved/ < 1258217476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1258217481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hqxs just turn into .sits < 1258217503 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1258217508 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"turn into"? < 1258217525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X expanding them < 1258217527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they contain .sits < 1258217528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both < 1258217529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so forget that < 1258217534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what stuffit you got < 1258217536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I can't redirect both to same file it seems < 1258217544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redirect them to different files then < 1258217548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 7.something < 1258217549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relative order isn't all that important < 1258217554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258217574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you want the file itself too? < 1258217589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the stderr/stdout output < 1258217598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat them together to save pastebin space < 1258217603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jagshouse.com/software/StuffItExpander351.sea < 1258217606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.sea, that sounds better < 1258217609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-extracting archive < 1258217656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For *really* old .sit files you can just use the "macunpack" tool from the "macutils" collection to unpack. (Personally it hasn't eaten most web-downloaded .sit files I've found, though.) < 1258217657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No luck. < 1258217670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stdout: http://sprunge.us/WNGO < 1258217672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I need the rfork. < 1258217683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stderr: http://sprunge.us/NDVB < 1258217692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably uses CR those files < 1258217710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yylex: bad char 0xd" < 1258217716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the errors, at least < 1258217730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that was CR. I'm pretty sure < 1258217753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution here seems to be to set both 0xa and 0xd to the same value in the parser < 1258217755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lexer < 1258217764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds hackish? < 1258217769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1258217775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1258217782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W [\ \t\n]* < 1258217783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D [0-9][\ \t\n0-9]* < 1258217789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in those lines in lexer.l, change \n to \n\r < 1258217799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that "W" means "whitespace", it's OK to consider \r as whitespace i think < 1258217801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I think < 1258217808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lexer.l? < 1258217812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: src/lexer.l < 1258217815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258217816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what you compile to create lexer.c < 1258217852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change it over on a Linux system, then do make repoupdate < 1258217858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes of course < 1258217858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a new prebuild lexer.c < 1258217863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is D? < 1258217879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digits followed by optional whitespace < 1258217895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my lexer.c differs in more than that from the pre-built, it has some IA64 #ifdefs now < 1258217896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258217905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258217906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and right, I need to change the isatty to 0 again < 1258217909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks more like "digits with maybe whitespace between them too". < 1258217921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, ofc < 1258217928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has its own attitude to whitespace insensitivity < 1258217955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit funny that "12 \n\r\r\r\n 34 \n\n\n\n" is a single token. < 1258217981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1258217982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BIN < 1258218013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdhf < 1258218017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the resource fork won't copy < 1258218036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still the getc warning < 1258218047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sorear's interpretation of the INTERCAL spec is that whitespace is allowed even inside comments < 1258218047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about it being defined in StdCLib < 1258218058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: write #define getc getc_override just after #undef getc < 1258218060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lexer.c < 1258218069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1258218070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1258218071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rename to .dmg < 1258218073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can mount it < 1258218095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what should I test now? < 1258218127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whether you can now compile that test program and get something other than infinite syntax errors < 1258218212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now I get the same error as on unix. that is the code gen bug < 1258218226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will manually fix that empty array and retry < 1258218247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with -c < 1258218251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if the resulting C file is reasonable < 1258218287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, got Stuffit and BBEdit Lite. < 1258218301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! That "use mkisofs/genisoimage to make a HFS cd image so that I can get my separate 'foo' data and '._foo' resource forks joined together" trick I did with Glider 4 was probably unnecessary; I just noticed that the "macstream" make-a-MacBinary-file has a support for split files; if an input file ends with .info, it reads the corresponding .data and .rsrc files too. < 1258218435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, beer now works < 1258218437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think 4 megs of ram is enough to compile ick? < 1258218441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an mpw tool yes < 1258218448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, probably < 1258218454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yay < 1258218456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -c will always be needed on classic mac btw < 1258218462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c? < 1258218467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: generate C, not a binary < 1258218469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it should output the commands to compile it to stdout < 1258218477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'ma gonna put some stuff on my totally p!!mp!n mac and then yeah mpw it up < 1258218480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, reason is that MPW tools can't invoke other MPW tools < 1258218501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands to compile are already available < 1258218510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I forget which variable they're in < 1258218536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the standard ones won't work. like you can't do -Ifoo/ you do -i :foo: < 1258218539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space is required < 1258218552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like we'll need a #ifdef somewhere for the platform < 1258218552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for -L I haven't found that < 1258218557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must give full path < 1258218565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1258218570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use the standard variables < 1258218598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "{PPCLibraries}"PPCToolLibs.o < 1258218601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that library < 1258218618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you need to specify the c library to the linker < 1258218623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and compiler can't call linker < 1258218631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me copy over the commands I used to test that < 1258218733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://sprunge.us/JVAa < 1258218736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what it looks like < 1258218765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ick-wrap.c and syslib.i were in current directory < 1258218798 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258218838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and beer is compiled as an MPW tool. Which might be a suboptimal solution. Possibly a free standing program is better. To prevent it from locking up MPW in case of bugs < 1258218851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258218884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could use that SIOW thing which does IO in a window for you. To emulate a "glass teletype" I think the term was in the docs for that bit < 1258219157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's on Mac. Bugs can lock up the whole OS. < 1258219162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And kill your cat. < 1258219207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, as in "waiting for IO means you can't quit it" < 1258219224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Simpler bugs than "while(true);" < 1258219309 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a story somewhere about macs that kept breaking a certain computer network < 1258219318 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ages ago) < 1258219352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice hex editor... < 1258219353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned out they didn't respond to the network while a user was looking at a menu < 1258219357 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing lockups < 1258219357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will install this XLisp thing then go on to < 1258219358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUN < 1258219360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW < 1258219388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Speaking of the emulators (BasiliskII, SheepShaver), did you happen to try out the networking parts? < 1258219416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BasiliskII can do tcp/ip i believe; there's a twitter client < 1258219449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, slight issue. < 1258219453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MPW actually run on System 6? < 1258219463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258219486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 and under were System 6-only, even. < 1258219602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This XLisp seems quite good. < 1258219618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculated (fact 100) and all. < 1258219619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BasiliskII can do networking, in theory, but it's awfully outdated. There's a custom kernel module (sheep_net) to make it attach to a real Ethernet interface, but I'm not sure it'll compile with anything modern; there's also an ethertap-based virtual networking thing, but it tries to use the obsoleted /dev/tapN devices (nowadays you have to open /dev/net/tun and do an ioctl); and the third option is a bit undocumented thing that sort-of seems to send all the < 1258219619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outgoing ethernet packets tunneled in broadcast UDP packets, which is not very standard (or easy-to-plug-into-routing) either. < 1258219633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there are some modernization patches in the webs, though. < 1258219646 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258219725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, time for serious stuff. < 1258219776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you ready to support a user with an emulated Mac Plus with 100 MiB of DISK, 4 MiB of RAM (8 MiB maximum addressable), Macintosh System Software 6.0.8, Macintosh Programmer's Workshop something and a copy of the latest-'n-greatest C-INTERCAL? < 1258219804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, but I'll probably try anyway < 1258219823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a black-and-white 512x342 display, at that. < 1258219825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very infuriating. < 1258219837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: When did C-INTERCAL originate? < 1258219859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1258219865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Speaking of the emulators (BasiliskII, SheepShaver), did you happen to try out the networking parts? <-- yes < 1258219867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked fine < 1258219872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slirp or something like that iirc < 1258219893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version 0.3, the earliest I've managed to find, was dated 12 May 1990 < 1258219912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same year as the last update of this System 6! If only esr was a Macintosh user. < 1258219919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258219920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this as in < 1258219922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the copy I have < 1258219933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this means I'm older than C-INTERCAL < 1258219937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something wrong with that < 1258219951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, I'm younger than Agora < 1258219953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's freakier < 1258219991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm younger than my own father < 1258219996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1258220051 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258220239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, slirp works fine for internet explorer 5.1 btw < 1258220252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what files did you download to get mpw? < 1258220254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 4.x maybe < 1258220268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the main mpw img (iirc) plus various updates to it < 1258220270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see apples page < 1258220272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec for link < 1258220280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's too recent < 1258220290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's what I used < 1258220294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/ < 1258220311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it is too recent or not wasn't in the original question < 1258220314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lists.apple.com/archives/MPW-Dev/2003/Jan/msg00029.html >_< < 1258220332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-programmers-workshop-30-31 < 1258220334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1258220334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACE < 1258220389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's a CD-ROM. < 1258220393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seedy ROM. < 1258220426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's SADE < 1258220434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1258220444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mpw < 1258220448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of SADE < 1258220448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macbugs, mpw, resedit, sade < 1258220452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some debugger thing < 1258220484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW 3.1 + ResEdit 1.2. < 1258220487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate debuggers. < 1258220491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy time! < 1258220569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, macsbug breaks under sheepshaver, because it needs better emulation of hardware < 1258220583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver and basiliskII both take some shortcuts with the MacOS ROM iirc < 1258220589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they don't have to emulate all hardware < 1258220618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure if macsbug work under basiliskII < 1258220619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ResEdit is there but not MPW. I'll try copying again. < 1258220625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mini vMac is full emulation < 1258220627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have resedit < 1258220630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you can't futz with the screen res etc < 1258220631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1258220640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. why? < 1258220654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, my BasiliskII README just doesn't say anything about it; now that you mention it, I guess I remember seeing it in the config dialog thing. MacTCP or OpenTransport inside, though? < 1258220655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it requires ROM hacks, and it's meant to be authentic (it breaks some shit). < 1258220675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sheepshaver. OS 9. That means opentransport is the only thing < 1258220677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use Mini vMac with ROMs straight from a real Mac, fully-emulated. < 1258220682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never tried network under basiliskII < 1258220708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. < 1258220735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258220739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW was right behind the system folder < 1258220744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1258220760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, okay. I was thinking of this System 7; I installed both MacTCP, OpenTransport and the "Network Software Selector", and I remember it working just fine in the Performa (there was a control strip thing that could be used to select the TCP stack), but in this emulated thing I don't seem to be able to find the selector, just the MacTCP parts. < 1258220762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, non-icon view. Why didn't I switch to that earlier? < 1258220787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is. < 1258220791 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258220795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what app do you start to start MPW? MPW Shell? < 1258220809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fucking shit... < 1258220817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last modified Friday, December 15th, 1989. < 1258220821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ↑ < 1258220833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258220838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's somehow more intimidating than the vintage Unix. < 1258220845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... so close that it must be so ... far? < 1258220868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: what app do you start to start MPW? MPW Shell? <-- yes? < 1258220889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no, I double click my makefile, so current working directory is correct < 1258220890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand we're loaded < 1258220900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that opens in mpw shell < 1258220906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I try a hello world mmhm? < 1258220928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. You will need SIOW or MPW tool for it to work under 68k < 1258220938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the output goes nowhere < 1258220944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pre-PPC. < 1258220956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All anyone had was 68k. < 1258220956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has was < 1258220956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But SIOW is for 68k too < 1258220959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is SIOW? < 1258220966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even C is an oddity, as these macs did Pascal < 1258220981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some code to wrap a portable C app so standard IO goes to a window < 1258220987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to/from I guess < 1258220994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't pass command line parameters < 1258220994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258221005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third-party code, I guess? < 1258221005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need that, MPW tool is your only option < 1258221013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MPW tool have any downsides? < 1258221014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an example included with both MPW and one with codewarrior < 1258221044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes: you run inside mpw, so you can't call another mpw tool, and memory leaks will as far as I understand affect mpw < 1258221049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you can easily lock up mpw < 1258221079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however you can use a normal program + some resources for it. At least under PPC. Not sure if it works the same for 68k < 1258221092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would you accept a patch to C-INTERCAL that let you configure that args are from stdin? < 1258221094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of argc and argv < 1258221099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in config.h < 1258221112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, patches to make things configurable are always fine < 1258221121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they don't change the default < 1258221122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. ick as MPW tool works fine < 1258221124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fine < 1258221124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258221130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't do anything else ridiculous < 1258221130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zzo38 would have a field day < 1258221132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I will soon prepare my patch to ais523 < 1258221135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I want separate apps! < 1258221147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for a compiler it is useful as an MPW tool < 1258221151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the generated apps it isn't < 1258221188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, what about a patch for lexer.c? < 1258221190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Drag the source file to the Compile with Ick icon. A new icon should appear, named INTERCAL Application. Rename it to what you want and drag it somewhere." < 1258221194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned autoconf stuff < 1258221211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is iit useful as an MPW tool? < 1258221214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1258221216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't call the MPW C compiler from outside MPW iirc < 1258221225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to somehow open MPW and run it there. < 1258221231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe applescript could do it < 1258221233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1258221233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you said it doesn't work calling the cc anyway. < 1258221252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well as an external app you could possibly do it < 1258221258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have multitasking back there < 1258221267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw does your MPW have something called "toolserver"? < 1258221273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so you might have a chance < 1258221291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, and no apple script you can pretty much forget calling compiler for the user < 1258221292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I find out? < 1258221314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, toolserver would be in same dir as mpw shell < 1258221316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for me < 1258221317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have ick as an MPW Tool and it can't call cc you said. < 1258221319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like kanye west's music. < 1258221319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's not an advantage. < 1258221331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't you say the arguments had to be existing files? < 1258221357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You have ick as an MPW Tool and it can't call cc you said. <-- no but command line args work, and you can use the make stuff in mpw and so on. It integrates just like the C compiler does < 1258221391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to write support code though, right? < 1258221397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and arguments = existing files was for normal programs < 1258221400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for mpw tools < 1258221404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258221406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not much actually. < 1258221407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, then. < 1258221413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make an MPW Tool Hello World? < 1258221418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This interface is inscrutable. < 1258221423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an example with my mpw version < 1258221440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example projects, certainly; I just don't know how to go about creating one of my own. < 1258221463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I figured that out from the example programs though :P < 1258221473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what will my output applications do? < 1258221478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, standard C program, compile C file, some special linker flags, some special resources (Using Rez) < 1258221478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that other one? < 1258221498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't even know how to say "Here, give me a new project". < 1258221499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IO goes to MPW shell. < 1258221509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no project. Write a makefile < 1258221509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... you said MPW Tool is good for ick... < 1258221512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the resulting programs... < 1258221536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION creates Six:Code
< 1258221542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well bad for resulting program because standard input is weird for them. And it is easy to lock up MPW < 1258221557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... why not make it non-MPW Tool? < 1258221562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I did them as MPW tools however. For reasons of ease of testing < 1258221568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would that be? < 1258221569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1258221572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing. < 1258221579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, free standing apps? < 1258221583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258221584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the SIOW thing? < 1258221586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258221591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's a free standing app < 1258221594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258221596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1258221599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misunderstood. < 1258221603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIOW is some stuff you link to your app < 1258221608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what do I write first? I have Six:Code:Hello MPW. < 1258221610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile? C file? < 1258221610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked into the details of that yet < 1258221614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Open MPW?) < 1258221626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, open mpw and create a c file and a make file? < 1258221629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258221637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm busy preparing a patch. Kay? < 1258221644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's kind of the thing in that I don't have a clue how. < 1258221670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there are projects < 1258221674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Projects → New Project..." < 1258221685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Project → < 1258221759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't use that < 1258221766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1258221783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, File → New... "hello.c", I guess. < 1258221803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about oil needing \r in the *.oil file? < 1258221816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does my C file need special magic or can I just stdio 'er up? < 1258221816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would I fix it to work with both < 1258221819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could probably fix that much the same way in oil.y < 1258221842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is not lex. that's yacc. That's different isn't it? < 1258221855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil.y doesn't use lex at all < 1258221858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a hand-built lexer < 1258221878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I guess that is where it needs to be fixed? < 1258221907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does my C file need special magic or can I just stdio 'er up? < 1258221947 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258221949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1258221983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm afraid the mac makefile probably requires CR line endings. I'm not sure. Still patch doesn't like it very much... < 1258222017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even if you tell it to ignore whitespace < 1258222019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258222019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests
< 1258222020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi < 1258222031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have no idea what you mean, if that question was directed at me < 1258222037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258222091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually MPW seems happy with LF line endings heh < 1258222099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAANMAAAAAAAAASTER < 1258222184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1258222209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about ick_numerals being defined in both cesspool.c and numerals.c ? < 1258222221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got a huge warning about that < 1258222224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: don't bother, I think he's ignoring me either mentally or technologically < 1258222227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was correct, maybe not though < 1258222238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does my C file need special magic or can I just stdio 'er up? <-- try it and see? < 1258222255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe they should be static? Or one should be extern? < 1258222269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember offhand, and I'm busy with something else < 1258222271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well for one I have no idea what fucked up makefile syntax is used... < 1258222364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look at examples in MPW? That's what I did < 1258222374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to but the interface makes no sense. < 1258222379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I based mine on that and then rewrote it and rewrote it < 1258222381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what interface? < 1258222385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW < 1258222387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the editor window? < 1258222395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's just an editor window for the makefile < 1258222409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the worksheet is like a cross between a crippled shell and *scratch* in emacs < 1258222421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd-enter to execute current line or selected textr < 1258222424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text* < 1258222528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the patch is at http://omploader.org/vMnJxeg (didn't want pastebin due to possible stripping whitespaces and such, this should be binary-safe) < 1258222553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called ick < 1258222556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, note that this still needs some fix for lexer.c's isatty() and for oil < 1258222579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? yes ick is called ick < 1258222590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads it
< 1258222596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+# ICK Makefile for MPW < 1258222603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it would need some handling for "not invoking compiler" too < 1258222643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still this works for me on a real mac. Sheepshaver crashes on compiling convickt.c, but it works fine to use an object file from a real mac for that one < 1258222659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes work in progress. But it is a beginning < 1258222661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convickt's optional, you could just remove it altogether without affecting the main program < 1258222712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes this needs syslib.i and such copied around. There is no real concept of install targets anyway. But yes some work on that needs to be done. Still a first milestone is reached :) < 1258222888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The application 'unknown' has unexpectedly quit, because an error of type 3 occurred." Heh. < 1258222897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what did you do? < 1258222938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to run Ircle 3.1.2 68k in BasiliskII, to test out that networking thing. < 1258222984 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258222994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258223020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going off to get dinner, I'll be back in a bit < 1258223025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya < 1258223056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway sheepshaver likes to crash at least once during a full build anyway. Just not 100% reproducible. < 1258223067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and file system isn't journaled no < 1258223086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up having to boot from a cd image once today to fix things < 1258223122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out desktop db file was badly damaged. Oh and a few tiles object files have been half written or such. < 1258223218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you figure out that Project menu? < 1258223228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258223242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is for some old and obsolete source control system < 1258223244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Ircle 3.1f3 68k: "Sorry, a system error occurred. "ircle 3.1 British 68k" numeric overflow [Restart]". I have a feeling that emulator is not the stablest piece of work ever. < 1258223248 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258223252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read something about that somewhere < 1258223264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you only now discovered that? < 1258223281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, it ran my Glider game just fine. Besides, after a restart starting ircle seems to work. < 1258223331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could rewrite it to a codewarrior project, but I don't think you can generate files as you go along then < 1258223353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be a PITA for everyone to find that and install < 1258223367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with not being freely available easily < 1258223381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1258223584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't find where in oil.y to add \r < 1258223662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines 383 and 700 < 1258223667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258223789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm now this always confuse me in C. Operator precedence between == and &&. Can never remember that. < 1258223829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== binds tighter < 1258223841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that one hard to remember? logical operators are lowest of all < 1258223854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the possibly confusing relation is that == binds tighter than &, maybe that's what was confusing you < 1258223864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, ?: and , are even lower. but not ==) < 1258223899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258223912 0 :fizzircle!n=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258223942 0 :fizzircle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, MacTCP was a much better choice. < 1258224202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzircle: are you online from a mac < 1258224204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or emulated one? < 1258224369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258224384 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258224621 0 :fizzircle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523> An emulated one, with BasiliskII. < 1258224632 0 :fizzircle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, the colon is not where it should be. < 1258224662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that oil fix seems to work < 1258224675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzircle, I had to rewrite the keymap file for sheepshaver a lot < 1258224680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get anything to work < 1258224694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it tries to use keysym by default. Doesn't work well at all < 1258224737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has some rendering issues in the input line window: http://zem.fi/~fis/ircle.png < 1258225149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the getc_override? Is it generic enough to work on *nix too? < 1258225161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although it's probably worth guarding it anyway < 1258225170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's liable to break other things at random, being a rather crude hack < 1258225180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, the existing situation is /also/ a crude hack... < 1258225181 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258225196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't you rewrite it to not be such a crude hack < 1258225200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbiab food < 1258225214 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is Interfunge supposed to accept input in Befunge programs? < 1258225250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes < 1258225258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, note that the input program must be /exactly/ 80x24 < 1258225265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pad lines with spaces if needed < 1258225281 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1258225301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to work on normal Befunge93 programs but not with "~" or "&" < 1258225377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&:*.@ < 1258225389 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1258225406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5:*.@ < 1258225408 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does < 1258225416 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258225577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, um. Did you pad it up to the required size first? < 1258225598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Befunge program itself?? I just now tried that, it didn't seem to help < 1258225606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258225633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's hard to tell if I did it correctly or not (since either way it didn't work) < 1258225715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no idea how to go about the isatty thingy in autoconf. I could do a MPW specific hack. Or I could let you do it, < 1258225726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, note that fileno inside it is unistd.h too < 1258225756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258225760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is POSIX too* < 1258225762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant < 1258225774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason that didn't give any error on the mac though. Maybe it has the function, it might or might not do the same thing < 1258225981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ick is still broken for LF input. The huge comment thing still applies < 1258225993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1258226000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort-of makes sense < 1258226019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it treats the entire thing as one line if input is in LF < 1258226024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why did that happen < 1258226034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beacuse the entire thing is one line < 1258226061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think that would explain it < 1258226140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I dislike Hive Rise < 1258226143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough people play it < 1258226152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to fiddle with Shattered Galaxy < 1258226184 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, shouldn't ick have at least one Befunge and one Unlambda example to test the interpreters (interfunge.i, unlambda.i) ?? < 1258226194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I thought the lexer was supposed to understand both CR and LF now after the change? < 1258226203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1258226209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why doesn't it work then. < 1258226209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that doesn't change the definition of what a line is < 1258226210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1258226219 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1258226221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is? < 1258226226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: between newlines < 1258226230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or between \r on a Mac) < 1258226238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how do you fix the lexer to handle that? < 1258226259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so newlines can be any of \r \n and \r\n < 1258226267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all cfunge manages it, can't see why flex shouldn't < 1258226285 0 :Dav1d!n=Dav1d@78.52.122.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258226297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is not wrong < 1258226305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um. What? < 1258226310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :displaying all of a program with no newlines as one line is not wrong < 1258226315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if \r is a newline on a Mac, \n isn't < 1258226329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well also it generates wrong code. A huge ick_lose for the whole thing < 1258226345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that is more than just "displaying" < 1258226347 0 :Dav1d!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258226366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it generates correct code with correct newlines? < 1258226380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick isn't like cfunge, it wants input files to use platform-appropriate newlines < 1258226385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1258226674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what if a platform uses both? < 1258226692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no platform uses inconsistent newlines < 1258226705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in "both is allowed" < 1258226713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no platform does that < 1258226719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would make no sense < 1258226722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and there seems to be a compiler option for this \n <-> \r translation < 1258226728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes it can be inconsistent < 1258226743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I use it only for some of the files < 1258226745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258226779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also can convickt do CR<->LF? < 1258226786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem fit for old mac < 1258226820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not yet, but it would be easy enough to code it to do so < 1258226830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258226835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does old mac use ASCII? < 1258226848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but not ISO-whatever < 1258226851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses MacRoman < 1258226889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for example åäö are encoded differently < 1258226906 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258226917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_Roman < 1258227019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the makefile syntax makes use of some of those < 1258227037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you might have seen in that patch < 1258227070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/cpi/old/cpimac12.zip ;-) < 1258227120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hm? < 1258227133 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nothing, just DOS spam < 1258227147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely irrelevant to making the convickt mapping < 1258227201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no clue how to make the convickt mapping. Since it isn't a 1:1 mapping with any charset I assume you have to go by unicode < 1258227231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all you really need is equivalents for the characters used by INTERCAL < 1258227244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that pure ASCII? < 1258227248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot
< 1258227252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not quite < 1258227259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some characters are represented differently in different charsets < 1258227266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. mingle is ¢ in EBCDIC and $ in ASCII < 1258227296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is not available in ASCII? As the lower 127 chars in MacRoman are identical to ASCII < 1258227317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not quite, \n and \r are the other way round < 1258227379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really. It is just that which one is used for newline has changed. And that the C compiler does the same sort of tricks as is done on windows for \n <-> \r\n < 1258227405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you have a \n <-> \r\n mapping for windows too? < 1258227430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just ignore lone \r characters < 1258227437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, \r not followed by \r < 1258227444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \r\n becomes just \n < 1258227455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you do that even on linux? < 1258227462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that seems wrong. < 1258227466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that isn't the native newline < 1258227470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you mentioned above < 1258227543 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258227708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well? do you do that on linux too? < 1258227716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258227733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wrong. If LF should be forbidden on mac it should be consistent at least for all platforms. < 1258227738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1258227752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lone CR's forbidden on Windows and Linux... < 1258227768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but \r\n should be forbidden too on windows < 1258227771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258227774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it would be hideously un-INTERCALish to borrow the python universal-newline convention :D < 1258227774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1258227778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only be allowed on windows < 1258227797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, by the same logic < 1258227817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe < 1258227822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't change it to act that way, you are just being completely inconsistent. < 1258227824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't windows/linux detection code in there yet < 1258227828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I haven't built it on Windows for ages < 1258227840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even GCC can now handle various newlines < 1258227852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, this is INTERCAL. Shush. < 1258227863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I don't find this restriction very intercal-ish < 1258227886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Esolang wiki page on Nouse has a broken link (Geocities), i.e. any Geocities links are dead now and should be changed or removed < 1258227893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway does intercal make use of any code above 127? < 1258227899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get a straight answer to that one < 1258227907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on the charset < 1258227916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, normal. Native one on linux < 1258227920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the CLC-INTERCAL charset option, no < 1258227923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that option, yes < 1258227938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what apart from the \r\n swap would be needed. < 1258227941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing < 1258227950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? and the CLC thing? < 1258227956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless some of the MacRoman extra characters happen to map onto the INTERCAL charset, in which case they should change < 1258227968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which ones would those be? < 1258227975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Princeton syntax characters are accepted if they happen to be in Latin-1 or UTF-8 < 1258227986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you happen to have a list of them handy? < 1258227997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see lexer.l or the appendix to the Revamped Manual < 1258228002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both lists of what characters are involved < 1258228006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither is particularly easy to read < 1258228018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, easier way: are there any of them in the table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_Roman < 1258228049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: we like to check if things are on wayback before removing them entirely < 1258228066 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WayBack or Reocities (although when I checked it didn't have some stuff) < 1258228085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a friendly warning that some links will be broken now :-/ < 1258228133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes: ¢ £ ¥ € < 1258228160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm < 1258228161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¥ will be a fun one, because Latin-1 ¥ maps to ? and UTF-8 ¥ maps to $ < 1258228170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and/or ¢ < 1258228182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? How does one write one of them .bin files? < 1258228194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's basically a list of characters < 1258228199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember exactly how it works < 1258228210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is it documented? < 1258228226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in its source, if anywhere < 1258228249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1258228254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about that empty array thing. How would one fix that? < 1258228254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long comment at the top of src/clc-cset.c < 1258228259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by putting an element in it < 1258228289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, properly in the ick compiler < 1258228313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by getting the ick compiler to put an element in it < 1258228325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would this be in the RTL layer or such? < 1258228343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either in the code-generation in perpet.c, or in the wrapper < 1258228373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../src/feh2.c: fprintf(fp, "\")))\n\t{\n\t ick_createdata icd[]={\n"); < 1258228380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that seems like where it is output? < 1258228389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258228395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just after that, I suspect < 1258228397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the next few lines < 1258228406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically want to add an empty element to the end of the array < 1258228408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so always add a null entry to the end? or only if there is no other ones? < 1258228417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second would be slightly neater < 1258228490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(fp, "\")))\n\t{\n\t ick_createdata icd[]={\n"); < 1258228490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : prunknowncreatedata(np, fp); < 1258228490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(fp, "\t };\n"); < 1258228491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258228507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a function that calls itself < 1258228513 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ins.i seems to only do decimal input? hmmm.... < 1258228515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would always putting it there break anything? < 1258228531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, but I can't remember < 1258228542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what the heck is that array for at all < 1258228563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the code comment says you wrote it (so you can't blame it on it being there before :P) < 1258228592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it holds the information about the variables used in a just-in-case compiled command < 1258228598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so adding an extra one seems unlikely to break anythign < 1258228621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just checked that sizeof(icd) is never used < 1258228642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't possibly iterate over all entries in it then < 1258228646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, what is the point of it < 1258228661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to look up individual elements < 1258228678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the second element gets overloaded onto .1602 < 1258228680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1258228691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you find the end of the array so you don't go past the end by mistake then? < 1258228704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's stored in a separate variable < 1258228728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or if accessed from C code (as opposed to INTERCAL code) I think it just segfaults, which is intended behaviour < 1258228734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what going off the end of an array does in C < 1258228809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of crazy indention scheme are you using in the generated code... < 1258228818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't figure it out
< 1258228828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mostly it's just ordinary indentation < 1258228843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so 1 tab per level? < 1258228862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think it's a mix of spaces and tabs < 1258228867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks correct with tab=8, as it always should be < 1258228914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=4! < 1258228956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes. < 1258228966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how many spaces for each level? < 1258228977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tabs are dumb anyways < 1258228996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure offhand, IIRC it's 4 spaces for one level, one tab for two levels < 1258229041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-space mixing is such a truly horrible idea < 1258229062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use tabs properly, everything will still look right to someone with a different tab setting < 1258229090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what should the dummy entry be? < 1258229109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-space mixing means that you get stuff that looks like < 1258229111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like {0, 0, 0, 0, 0} ? < 1258229113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any tab setting but 8 is wrong and broken < 1258229127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why tabs should never be used alone for indentation, they're too wide < 1258229128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, most of the world doesn't agree with that < 1258229131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sa < 1258229133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdf < 1258229135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lsakdjf < 1258229146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh emulating mixed mode I see < 1258229147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258229154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's horrible I agree < 1258229154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is any setting other than 8 broken? < 1258229182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because every terminal in existence has tab=8 < 1258229206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vast majority of editors, too, unless they're customised to something different (why that setting exists I don't know...) < 1258229208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a good reason < 1258229220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, if tabs are used correctly, then you shouldn't care what the setting is < 1258229220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{0, 0, 0, {NULL, NULL}, 0} < 1258229226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that correct? < 1258229230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: {16, 0, 0, {NULL, NULL}, 0} < 1258229237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 16? < 1258229243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 isn't currently a legal value for the first element of an ick_createdata < 1258229244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, emacs users have their retarded mixed mode, so things look hideous when viewed by people with narrower preferences < 1258229266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the tab width setting is going to matter whenever you use spaces < 1258229274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I have not the foggiest idea how it works even after reading the struct definition < 1258229278 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts a campaign to make people use US to sperate groups of statemetns, RS to seperate each declaration, and GS to separate higher-level things like classes
< 1258229284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tabs indent the line, spaces line up beyond that < 1258229288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it contains all information about an expression needed to get and set its value < 1258229294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line < 1258229298 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is there purpose just as much as tab's purpose is indentation < 1258229302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're designed for table cells! < 1258229302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turn down your tab width then < 1258229307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you *sure* it won't break something? < 1258229312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty sure < 1258229316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elastic tabstops are another matter altogether, and they are pretty darn awesome_ < 1258229319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, because then tabs wouldn't be wide enough for their intended purpsoe < 1258229321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*purpose < 1258229323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258229328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and elastic tabstops are awesome, but not a sort of tab < 1258229328 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how do I change my terminal tab woiidth < 1258229328 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258229332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what variable is 0 then? < 1258229333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're used for indentation < 1258229336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs aren't < 1258229337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then indent with spaces and spaces only < 1258229340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm < 1258229342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258229347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a placeholder meaning that there isn't a legal variable there < 1258229356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's what I mostly do nowadays, to handle people with broken editors < 1258229362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line <-- not at all < 1258229365 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but why would anyone use table cells? if you mean making a 2d table of things < 1258229367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use tab to indent, spaces to adjust < 1258229371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like coppro explained < 1258229372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: depends on what you're using < 1258229374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258229377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it works just fine < 1258229377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(any editor that allows you to set tab to anything but 8 is suspicious, any editor that /defaults/ to anything but 8 is simply broken) < 1258229385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs are not 8 by definiton < 1258229389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are < 1258229391 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a variety, over ssh often < 1258229392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (any editor that allows you to set tab to anything but 8 is suspicious, any editor that /defaults/ to anything but 8 is simply broken) <-- why. < 1258229393 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258229401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because tabs go to a multiple of 8 characters < 1258229405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why < 1258229413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("\n\tThis line starts 8 characters from the margin.\n"); < 1258229424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because you just defined emacs and vim as suspicious. < 1258229434 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what? < 1258229438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, people wouldn't insist on using that option if it didn't exist < 1258229440 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258229449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would drop that editor then < 1258229457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use one that had it < 1258229460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: setterm < 1258229475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you'll break all the applications that assume that tab=8 if you do that < 1258229483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes because those apps are broken < 1258229485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. --help output often uses 8-space tabs < 1258229495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, --help uses spaces in my experience < 1258229512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some pathological cases uses tabs < 1258229514 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by table cells do you mean like excel but in ascii? < 1258229523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: pretty much < 1258229531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab was invented on typewriters, where you set the tab stops by hand < 1258229534 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in hell would you want that < 1258229540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting little bits of metal in the appropriate places < 1258229547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it faster to type tables on a typewriter < 1258229557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to reduce the chance of mistakes because you didn't need to keep pressing the spacebar < 1258229558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use a program for it, and set tab to something that's useful < 1258229578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when they came to computers, they quickly standardised on 8-space tabs anywhere but word processors < 1258229590 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: will that confuse things that use termcap and terminfo? < 1258229596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, typewriters are legacy. And if you are suggesting we set them manually, the tabs=8 spaces is just pure wrong < 1258229597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before tables as tables were common, tabs for tables were common, and tab stops were generally 8 spaces apart by default but you could set them wider0 < 1258229601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*) < 1258229612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realized a few weeks later they should've made it smaller everywhere else too, but some idiots decided 8 should stay? < 1258229614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: not sure < 1258229617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ever since, tab has moved to a multiple of 8 < 1258229622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typewriters are legacy but we still use its keys!! < 1258229622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, instead every user should set some virtual metal bits at the top of the terminal emulator to define their tabs < 1258229623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1258229636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that certain /editors/ seem to let you change it; note that nothing but editors has it set to anything but 8 by default < 1258229658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use tabs alone for indentation, you end up in the stupid situation where you can't read the program in anything but an editor < 1258229667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, setterm? < 1258229673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where else would you want to read a program? < 1258229678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees lines in code that start with 10 tabs or more ...
< 1258229685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines < 1258229686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as coppro suggested above < 1258229687 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda extreme < 1258229706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines <-- you don't. 100 columns is just fine. More than that isn't I agree < 1258229710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably that was added to cope with the broken editors < 1258229720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now you are just being silly < 1258229724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can fit about 83 characters horizontally on my screen, on a half-screen-width window < 1258229739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so substantially more than 80 just annoys me as I can't see two bits of code side by side < 1258229750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 80x24 is still the standard UNIX terminal size (80x25 and/or 80x50 on DOS) < 1258229752 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm just saying tables aren't actually a good reason to *keep* tabsize at a default of 8, because no one makes, and no one should make, tables using tabs < 1258229757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you won't be able to read the code in a standard terminal < 1258229763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS can handle up to 132x32 (VESA) < 1258229769 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1258229776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: agreed; the reason to keep tabsize at a default of 8 is because that's what tabs have been for ever, and what a tab actually means < 1258229781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mine opens at 150x120 iirc < 1258229781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, but that isn't standard < 1258229784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258229790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no 120x150 I think < 1258229791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it depends on your video card < 1258229796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is taller than than it is wide < 1258229818 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i can agree with. not that i do, but i don't not agree either. < 1258229819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, forget that, chars are not square < 1258229821 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x43 is for EGA, 80x50 is VGA, so 80x25 must be for older (Hercules? MDA? CGA?) < 1258229823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :150x120 it is in fact < 1258229852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofok: agreed; the reason to keep tabsize at a default of 8 is because that's what tabs have been for ever, and what a tab actually means <-- what a tab actually means says who? < 1258229859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel we have [citation needed] here < 1258229862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other ones < 1258229868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says more or less every program in existence, apart from a few editors < 1258229872 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually i definitely do disagree, why keep them at 8, if they are completely useless with size 8 < 1258229874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, try that printf statement I pasted above < 1258229876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: they aren't < 1258229876 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TabsAreEvil < 1258229878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)) < 1258229882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, exactly < 1258229889 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are they useful for, then? < 1258229890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they let you abbreviate spaces for indentation, although that's become less useful nowadays because we're no longer massively pressed for space < 1258229895 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makefiles! < 1258229897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said tables, i said no, you said indeed not. < 1258229907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I most recently used tabs for table-making a couple of weeks ago < 1258229908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of my jobs < 1258229910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*job < 1258229911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why not convert all of ick to just use spaces. < 1258229915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that relied on tab=8 < 1258229921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's used the \t forever < 1258229925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since before I took it over < 1258229936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :further evidence that tab should equal 8... < 1258229945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you made a small table, you could've pressed tab twice. < 1258229963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ick is not recommended practise at all < 1258229967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the point was, I wasn't sure how wide each of the columns would be < 1258229973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or we would be using setjmp and longjmp a lot more < 1258229974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1258229981 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you happened to know they were less than 8? < 1258229991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes < 1258229996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were all either 6 or 7 characters long < 1258229996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seriously if you suggest that ick code is a good example you *must* be joking < 1258230001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1258230007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm suggesting it's a typical example of its age < 1258230010 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU indent, anyone? < 1258230020 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not very convincing. < 1258230031 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still, you could've used a program < 1258230035 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually meant for that < 1258230041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for tables: it isn't even one tab between each column always < 1258230044 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have had to rely on at most "6-7" < 1258230050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you need two on one line and one on another line < 1258230060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and it seems MPW defaults to tab = 4 < 1258230066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't find anywhere to change it < 1258230068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent assumes that tabs are placed at regular intervals of both input and output character streams. These intervals are by default 8 columns wide, but (as of version 1.2) may be changed by the ‘-ts’ option. Tabs are treated as the equivalent number of spaces. < 1258230088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually in the worksheet tab = 1 < 1258230097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UntabifyUponSave < 1258230100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it doesn't support tabs < 1258230110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just renders them as spaces < 1258230114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and in Makefiles it is tab = 4 < 1258230122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes it clearly does < 1258230127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes they are one char < 1258230133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see that with the cursor key < 1258230166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so there is the same sort of "proof" that tab should be 4 that you had for it being 8. < 1258230180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seriously, a program shouldn't expect tab to be any specific size < 1258230183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could prove that newline should be \r the same way < 1258230187 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in this case I think it's just luck ... he's right, 8 is way more "standard" or common < 1258230191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read my paste from man indent? < 1258230193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed it should! < 1258230204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it assumed tabs = 8 without even a customization option until 1.2 < 1258230207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also that's GNU software < 1258230208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still, nowadays, uses tab = 8 < 1258230212 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258230215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it did the same thing on SunOS < 1258230218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's like saying GNU cat is some role model for all cat's < 1258230221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats* < 1258230225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have access to that SunOS system any more, so that's from memory...) < 1258230229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, actually, doesn't GNU coding style prefer tab width of 2? < 1258230238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and? Sun made Java. What did you expect? < 1258230268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://docs.sun.com/source/820-4180/man1/indent.1.html < 1258230269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I have no clue. I keep well away from gnu coding style < 1258230274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumes tab=8 with no way to customize < 1258230286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-in The number of spaces for one indentation level. The default is one tab stop, -i8. < 1258230290 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resistance is futile! ;-) < 1258230291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and they invented java < 1258230293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you expect. < 1258230312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, I expect them to have followed industry practice at the time? < 1258230325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is full of good practice to an extent more than most other languages, it's what makes it so insufferable < 1258230326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway you might prefer tabs to be 8. But 98% of the world that cares doesn't agree. < 1258230338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of course doesn't even know what a tab is) < 1258230345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyone who doesn't use a programmer's editor has tab set to 8 < 1258230350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably don't realise it, but they do < 1258230354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MS word? < 1258230357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it use < 1258230363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't even set it to an integer < 1258230364 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HT Horizontal Tabulation" -- http://wps.com/projects/codes/X3.4-1963/index.html < 1258230368 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about all it says < 1258230377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there you go then. That is probably the most common one < 1258230379 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(page 6) < 1258230389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because Word isn't a text editor < 1258230395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excel, incidentally, sets it to one cell < 1258230403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense, because it's tab for tabulation < 1258230408 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258230422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. point is. tab=8 isn't a very common opinion any more < 1258230423 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-118-139.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258230432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for tabs being evil page on emacs wiki < 1258230436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just set it in the mode line < 1258230437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be 4 < 1258230449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because that would be setting it to the wrong value for no good reaosn < 1258230468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, correction: "that which ais considers wrong" < 1258230482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what possible reason do you have for assuming tab != 8? < 1258230503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that this is a traditional flamewar, you can't go looking for a page that advocates one side of the flamewar, because there's bound to be one < 1258230512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well. because apart from ick and nethack I can't remember any code depending on tab == 8. Either it is tab = 4 or spaces always < 1258230522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tab = 4? where do you get that from? < 1258230528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 and 3 tend to be more common, 4 is a Pythonism < 1258230552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it? 3 I have seen once. < 1258230554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all versions of indent we've found depend on tab=8 < 1258230555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 a few more times < 1258230558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4 a lot more < 1258230597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, astyle seems to default to 4 spaces for indention < 1258230612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't used indent for years, because it did such a bad job at C99 code < 1258230619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw 3 once too, thought that guy was a little weird for that ;-) < 1258230631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so astyle is what I use, which still fails at some C99 things, but much less < 1258230647 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks AnMaster is very trendy
< 1258230649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it defaults to 4 spaces, yes < 1258230655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, trendy? < 1258230663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask it to indent using tabs, it assumes tab=4 because that gives the same indent size, but that isn't spaces < 1258230667 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge98, 64-bit, C99 :-P < 1258230681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I always asked it to indent with tabs < 1258230698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of our speech recognizer code is indent-two-spaces with assumed-8 tabs in the indentation somewhat randomly. < 1258230698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, < 1258230699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astyle --indent-preprocessor --indent-namespaces --indent-labels --one-line=keep-statements --indent=tab=4 --max-instatement-indent=40 --brackets=linux --min-conditional-indent=1 --unpad=paren --indent-switches --pad=oper < 1258230701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I use < 1258230704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, reading the blurb at the start of the man page, astyle was designed specifically to format code so it looked correct for people who didn't set tab=4 < 1258230709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tab = 8 < 1258230726 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabwidth=5 < 1258230728 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258230731 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono < 1258230742 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabwidth=13 < 1258230754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes. I make sure my code always look correct with any tab width. How wide each indention level is should be up to the user < 1258230767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he/she prefers 8 per level, fine, set tab=8 < 1258230770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, set tab to something else < 1258230773 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1258230775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258230777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it doesn't end up like: < 1258230782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blah < 1258230784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bsdasjd < 1258230788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blah blah < 1258230789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1258230796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any tab width < 1258230798 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if ther are any places where one could view code that don't let people change the tab width < 1258230821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, indeed. even the terminal lets you change easily < 1258230824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setterm < 1258230840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some old old terminal that didn't allow it might exist < 1258230848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good luck hooking that up to anything modern < 1258230893 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets out his soldering iron; and the documentation for several popular HTML renderers.
< 1258230896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: DOS edit? Notepad? less without having to type out the -x option every time you view a file? < 1258230916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more, fwiw, which doesn't have -x? < 1258230923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set tabstops at all prime number offsets; that should be good. < 1258230926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LESS Options which are passed to less automatically. < 1258230930 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH I don't know whether I was being serious or using deadpan sarcasm there < 1258230945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing via a standard printer when you don't know the ESC codes to change its tabstops? < 1258230947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, export LESS='-x4' < 1258230950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue solved < 1258230954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, what? < 1258230960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need cups to use a printer anyway < 1258230963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how would that work < 1258230964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't solve the issue, in fact it introduces an issue, that being that the tabstops are no longer 8 < 1258230973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: umm, until very recently, you could just cat a file to a printer < 1258230975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it printed < 1258230980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to do that all the time under DOS < 1258230981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you got this wrong. Tabstop NOT being 8 is *NOT* an issue < 1258230997 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose tabs can be converted into spaces quite easily, for those things that can't adjust the tab width < 1258230997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you end up with something like a semi-circular argument here < 1258231014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: umm, until very recently, you could just cat a file to a printer <-- where? /dev/usb/something? < 1258231014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a printer driver does, mostly, is let you print "graphics", or set the font < 1258231026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the serial or parallel port < 1258231030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just sent the data there, and the printer printed it < 1258231041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm pretty sure the Apple StyleWriter didn't allow it < 1258231046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the oldest printer I used < 1258231053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that all printers worked like that < 1258231054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used a parallel port one < 1258231058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, before my time. < 1258231062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wow, how young are you? < 1258231065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stylewrite was an inkjet < 1258231066 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the only solution is to head off to the quintessential plane and go and measure the Platonic ideal HT character. That will resolve the issue once and for all. < 1258231071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 20 in december < 1258231083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 19, but less than a month until 20 < 1258231090 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how old are you? < 1258231094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I grew up with mac < 1258231096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I just said < 1258231098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read up < 1258231098 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so old == young? < 1258231102 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258231113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I'm confused, because I'm 22 < 1258231118 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the older one gets, the younger one gets < 1258231120 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is bored
< 1258231124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, when I was young, printers were all either parallel or serial < 1258231132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Apple Stylewriter was able to print pictures. Greyscale only yes < 1258231133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1258231144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, to print pictures, you sent a really long escape code < 1258231152 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258231154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't send an escape code to a printer, it just printed text < 1258231164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printer drivers were mostly responsible for converting graphics into escape codes < 1258231167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was no printer device as such on the mac < 1258231167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall the days when printers came with documentation of their escape codes < 1258231176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember that is a *MAC* we are talking about < 1258231184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you're missing the poin < 1258231185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point < 1258231189 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and example BASIC programs to demonstrate < 1258231191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about what data was sent over the cable < 1258231205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I've never seen one with example BASIC, but I've seen at least two manuals documenting the escape codes < 1258231206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that was some pre-rendered image I guess? < 1258231207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually used them < 1258231217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: say you want to print out a Word document, or whatever < 1258231219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because even when you printed text files on macs they had formatting < 1258231237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it was postscript I guess it downloaded font and such first? < 1258231237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Word works out what each pixel should be, then the driver converts that to escape codes and sends it to the printer < 1258231244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although you're printing text files, you're printing in graphics mode < 1258231257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I suspect that always happened on mac < 1258231258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript's much more modern than all this, and therefore mostly irrelevant in this conversation < 1258231269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's happened at least since Windows 3.1, too < 1258231276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apple's laserwriters were all postscript from the beginning < 1258231281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, the point is that if you just catted a text file down the printer cable, it would print it in text mode < 1258231286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, used windows 3.something *once* < 1258231293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to have grown up on mac < 1258231297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things just worked there < 1258231307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was no terminal < 1258231336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact I typed "print" instead of "echo" in the mpw shell by mistake yesterday. Spewed postscript files all over my desktop < 1258231354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now one can wonder why the hell MPW would have such a command of course < 1258231355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Apple's StyleWriter is a pretty unconventional printer; according to the README.txt of the Unix driver of it, it has absolutely no built-in fonts. The driver only prints raster images. < 1258231372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, that is interesting < 1258231376 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Postscript printers? < 1258231378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explains AnMaster's resistance < 1258231394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I'm not actually sure what happens if you send them a plain non-PS text file < 1258231408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be fun to cat a PDF to them, IIRC PDF is a subscript of PostScript < 1258231422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, suset* < 1258231424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subset* < 1258231433 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME, PDF's have gribble in them, suggesting they aren't PS < 1258231436 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PDFs < 1258231439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well corrected < 1258231440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes but it won't work out of box, due to some PDF specific headers or such < 1258231452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: apparently the subset used in PDF is really non-idiomatic in PS < 1258231464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, citation? < 1258231476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure offhand < 1258231484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can't remember where I know that from < 1258231488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PDF uses a lot of blobs, etc < 1258231493 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258231495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas postscript is a lot more like a programming language < 1258231569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think it's a subset only in the logical sense, not in the sense that the down-to-bits file formats would really be all that compatible. < 1258231584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1258231639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is UserFriendly on such a dark topic? < 1258231672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why would we know? < 1258231712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You could be Illiad in disguise. < 1258231743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth does Mac OS 9 font suitcases contain DLOG resources according to resedit < 1258231747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lookas at them
< 1258231747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly it seems a bit [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CerebusSyndrome Cerberus Syndromeish]. < 1258231751 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't CAD have a random storyline about a miscarrage that everyone took the piss out of them for? < 1258231754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"enter the network address for the server"? < 1258231756 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that QC? < 1258231758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fucking crap < 1258231761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: CAD, yes. < 1258231763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has that go to do with a font? < 1258232339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of printers still: a friend had a networked PostScript laser printer that included a FTP server. You could log in and upload plaintext or postscript files; after the upload, they would come out of the printer. I don't really know what sort of heuristics it used for sniffing out postscript, but it did not treat everything as plaintext. < 1258232347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same applied to the telnet server it had. < 1258232445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"did not treat everything as PostScript", I mean. < 1258232458 0 :fizzircle!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1258232472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoh, completely forgot about that Ircle. < 1258232637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1258232673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why would a printer have a FTP server like that < 1258232677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems completely pointless < 1258232834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, we made use of it; for some reason, "proper" printing from Netscape (this was quite a while ago) on one of their computers was utterly broken, but since Netscape at that time had a "print by giving a postscript file to the following program" option, we got network printing with a script that used ncftp to upload the Netscape-provided file to the printer. < 1258232891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secunia advisory SA13170 from 2004-11-12: "Justin Rush has reported a weakness in HP PSC 2510 Photosmart All-in-One printer, which can be exploited by malicious people to cause a DoS (Denial of Service). < 1258232891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The printer reportedly has an undocumented feature that prints files written to a write-only directory, which is anonymously accessible via a FTP service." -- see, it's not so uncommon. < 1258232904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it was properly documented in that printer. < 1258232929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And configurable, so you didn't have to allow printing to everyone.) < 1258232987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a link I got from elsewhere in the irc, and so it's probably been all around the world already, but still: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454 < 1258233008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it has nice use of Unicode combining characters. < 1258233512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I get lots of boxes there < 1258233559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a shame; I had no boxes, but there's too many characters to start looking for from where they come. < 1258233690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The renderization is not exactly pretty here either: http://zem.fi/~fis/comb.png < 1258233911 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about what I get < 1258233953 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258234117 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes away.
< 1258234698 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought perl regexes Can Do It
< 1258234796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put arbitrary Perl in Perl regexes, and Perl can parse XML, so it sounds likely that they could. < 1258234876 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what the perl does inside the regex, it could be it can't touch the string being parsed, so you'd just be parsing something using perl, while you're parsing a regex < 1258234905 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if it can't be an Inherent Natural Part of the regex < 1258234910 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl code < 1258234967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I strongly suspect PCRE could do it though < 1258234971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the recursionb < 1258234974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion* < 1258235118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With embedded Perl, it's a bit debatable. I'm not sure it has the string-being-parsed (and especially the-location-where-we're-at) available somehow; if it does, you could use the (??{...}) thing -- "evaluate ..., interpret it as a regex" -- to return something like .{x} where x is the calculated length of the next regex part. < 1258235125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/regex part/xml element/ < 1258235223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe someone should post that there < 1258235233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it would be ugly as fuck < 1258235300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if a plain old extended-with-recursion thing is theoretically powerful enough; I guess it could be. Especially if it has Perl's (?(condition)yes-pattern|no-pattern) extension < 1258235331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's regex engine has a settable-at-compile-time-default-is-50 limit of the recursion depth for regexps, though. < 1258235361 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. Almost 300 votes in under 24 hours. < 1258236105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1258236111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had written an answer like that :( < 1258236132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, one of my answers hit 50 votes :) < 1258236900 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My highest is two at 29. < 1258237272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so did you do something about the autoconf check for isatty? < 1258237277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't < 1258237279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was eating lunch < 1258237283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dinner < 1258237292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what would the correct solution be? < 1258237362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: persuade GNU to fix flex < 1258237371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't manage that, you'll have to rely on hacks < 1258237406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't seem likely that I will manage does it? < 1258237413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse < 1258237415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well, no < 1258237423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll need to find some hacky way to do it < 1258237426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so likely they won't fix it? < 1258237427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258237432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a #define on isatty(x) to define it to 0 < 1258237444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's triggered by an autoconf check < 1258237456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't write the proper autoconf bit for this < 1258237465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and on mac autoconf doesn't work anyway < 1258237481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would need to update config.h after someone adds a correct autoconf check < 1258237497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: add isatty to the line "AC_CHECK_FUNCS(gettimeofday gethrtime strdup strtol strtoul snprintf vsnprintf)" in configure.ac, then rerun make < 1258237509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL's dependency system is set up so it changes everything to allow for that change < 1258237522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from actually conditioning on HAS_ISATTY or whatever the resulting macro is called < 1258237540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and then? where would that be defined? In the *.l file directly? < 1258237553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try that, so I can give you more detailed instructions, or a diff < 1258237576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, according to docs fileno() is also *nix only < 1258237587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter if it's inside the isatty < 1258237605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1258237726 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258237820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this build system doesn't seem to like autoconf version bump < 1258237838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about we stop using autoconf < 1258237874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because if used correctly you can actually make it work < 1258237878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody ever uses it correctly < 1258237890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know you can make it work if you use it correctly < 1258237913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just run autoreconf, and it updates all the version numbers, nice < 1258237941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh the stdio.h includes a line about _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS < 1258237945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit unexpected < 1258237955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems they picked some parts of POSIX that they liked < 1258237978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to 1 if you have the `isatty' function. */ < 1258237979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define HAVE_ISATTY 1 < 1258237983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is your new version? < 1258237995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of autotools < 1258238008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2.64 of autoconf < 1258238012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.11 of aclocal < 1258238015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.63 and 1.10.2 are the ones I have < 1258238020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything newer in the patch will be a pain < 1258238026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those wouldn't be versioned < 1258238036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the non-generated files would be < 1258238050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right? < 1258238058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you still version configure itself and so on? < 1258238059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the build system works fine even if you have an old version of autoconf < 1258238066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure itself knows what version it was created with < 1258238076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but you get warnings then sometimes < 1258238078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the build system just prints a warning if you change configure.ac and have the wrong version, and doesn't update configure < 1258238093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the warning's useful, it lets you know that your configure.ac changes weren't applied < 1258238104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly. But since configure itself isn't versioned this will be no issue < 1258238116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean by that < 1258238122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure itself doesn't depend on autoconf < 1258238129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile does, but only if you change configure.ac < 1258238141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that the darcs repo would not contain generated files like configure, Makefile.in and so on < 1258238142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even without it it doesn't crash, just uses the existing configure < 1258238144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the source files < 1258238144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah < 1258238148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like configure.ac and Makefile.am < 1258238155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the darcs repo did contain configure < 1258238160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the prebuilt stuff < 1258238162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it does it shouldn't < 1258238165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1258238168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so people can run from a copy of the repo < 1258238173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a make repoupdate command < 1258238178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1258238183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to copy the currently built versions back to the prebuilt directory < 1258238190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you find somewhere else to host it then? < 1258238198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but it's darcs < 1258238198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely your university provides some web space or such < 1258238201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the repo still exists, if only locally < 1258238210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my university does, but I couldn't sensibly put it there, it's unrelated to my research < 1258238227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie seems to manage that very well though < 1258238248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway maybe fizzie could host this for you on his own server. it seems stable and such < 1258238256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever considered asking? < 1258238320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven'y < 1258238321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haven't < 1258238326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from general requests to the channel < 1258238361 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it public information what your research is about btw? < 1258238408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because I don't know myself yet < 1258238413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the only reason < 1258238422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely in the area of hardware compilation and game semantics < 1258238440 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm having trouble seeing how to combine those < 1258238442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could put nomic stuff on there then < 1258238465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think you understand what game semantics is < 1258238475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a formalisation of programming, with some really tortured metaphors involved < 1258238478 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably don't either < 1258238482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no clue what it is, so I was joking < 1258238496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out to be a really suitable one for generating hardware with < 1258238536 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i've never heard about that < 1258238755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Wikipedia article about it is really awful < 1258238763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does explain to some extent where the terminology came from < 1258238773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link? < 1258238788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a Wikipedia article about game semantic < 1258238791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*semantics < 1258238794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably guess the link < 1258238799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=game_semantics < 1258238806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have an IRC macro for Wikipedia links... < 1258238815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't have guessed the full search thing for it < 1258238877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is game semantics related to hardware though < 1258238895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can basically embed nearly all of it into wires < 1258238909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the basic constructions turn almost exactly into wires, with minimal circuitry < 1258238929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you can basically embed nearly all of it into wires <-- why? < 1258238931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only really difficult component is the one that can be written as lambda x: [x, x] < 1258238937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, making two copies of something < 1258238939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want to embed it in wires < 1258238946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to compile a program into hardware < 1258238953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you get the game-semantic model for a program < 1258238956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah but why *games* for that < 1258238958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1258238959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258238963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed that bit < 1258238966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole game thing is a tortued metaphor < 1258238970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be ignored < 1258238983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminology's full of words like "game" and "arena" and "strategy" which basically don't mean anything < 1258238996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what exactly does it not have to do with games < 1258239004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything? < 1258239008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258239008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258239010 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258239015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258239020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have been a mistake < 1258239023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too abrupt < 1258239027 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must've < 1258239034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, huh < 1258239067 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? i just repeated you < 1258239068 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258239072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wb < 1258239083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wrong button? < 1258239092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was leaving in exasperation < 1258239111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like /ignoring people, just easier for other people to know what was going on < 1258239131 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it means he sneezed < 1258239139 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exasperation < 1258239160 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why does this deck keep giving me 9 and 8 of spades next to each other < 1258239194 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i explicitly put them in different parts of the deck, twice, and both times they magically find each other < 1258239205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ask the game semanticist in here. < 1258239209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais that is ;) < 1258239214 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258239252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name is an unfortunate one < 1258239259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about as accurate as "biscuit semantics" would be < 1258239263 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get that < 1258239336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain is weird, if i lay down 6 cards, and take a glance, then turn them face down, i can't remember a few of them, usually; but if i put them face down, and go over them once, trying to guess what they are, i will remember them on the second round < 1258239374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, new file extension for c++ I found today: < 1258239377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cp < 1258239386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not uncommon on classic mac os < 1258239413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i've looked at them a smaller amount of time, it's just i don't automatically memorize them if they're face up, but i do if i put them face down, and *then* look at each of them separately < 1258239447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" i can't remember a few of them, usually"? < 1258239449 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putting them face down i can pretty easily go up to 15 or such < 1258239450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant "can"? < 1258239453 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, i forget a few. < 1258239471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, forgot a few what? < 1258239474 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually i remember 5/6 < 1258239476 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cards. < 1258239482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for game semantics into hardware, think of the IP being an actual impulse on a wire < 1258239490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can multithread by having more than one of them < 1258239495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bits of code know to run when the IP turns up < 1258239509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh. what about thread local dat? < 1258239511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data* < 1258239522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't work like that < 1258239529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables work as in OCaml < 1258239533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how does the IPs avoid running the same code < 1258239537 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258239539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know ocaml < 1258239550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you make sure they don't run the same code via static analysis, before hand < 1258239553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my master's project was about that < 1258239560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258239597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, that seems pretty common however < 1258239627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not interesting how many i remember, as this is not how many i remember if i actively try < 1258239641 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just how many i remember if i lay cards down without thinking, turn them face down, and try to remember what i saw < 1258239649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258239654 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount is different depending on how i look at them < 1258239672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what if you try to remember from the start? < 1258239690 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i look at each of them, so that all are already turned, i remember less than if i look at each in turn, always having the other face down < 1258239706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that sounds obvious, i focus better if there's just one thing to focus on < 1258239714 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like i'm doing the exact same thing < 1258239718 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at each card. < 1258239732 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: obviously i can just memorize the whole deck < 1258239742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm < 1258239745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not obvious < 1258239752 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone can remember a deck < 1258239778 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a song about it, "THIIIIIS HERE IS MISTER JACK, HE'S A HEARTY HEARTY DUDE" < 1258239780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, anyone? < 1258239787 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone. < 1258239800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, without reservation? < 1258239825 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you add time limits, i can memorize 15 pretty much without work, atm < 1258239847 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without work = without system, without major effort making up a system on the fly < 1258239853 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looking at cards and turning them < 1258239878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, even an idiot savant who is savant at something completely different? < 1258239878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258239880 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for 9 cards, i can keep track of simple permutations... but still a noob at this < 1258239891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well any human < 1258239912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, they are human < 1258239916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258239918 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually define human as the ability to memorize a deck of cards < 1258239920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258239924 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true... < 1258239927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to think about this < 1258239998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklofok, they are human <<< oh lol i read "then you are human" < 1258240004 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was a reference to my not being human < 1258240023 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose idiot savants are technicaly human < 1258240027 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*technically < 1258240032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kb is borken < 1258240301 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually now also realize your "then you are human" comment would've been before my definition of human < 1258240313 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major brainfart < 1258240326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet none of you humans can do that < 1258240389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed my farts usually appear in the other end < 1258240416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds disgusting! < 1258240440 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder you're never invited to the intergalactic gala of greatness < 1258240453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did i just make a fart joke? my humor must be deteriorating even further! < 1258240465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1258240487 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you planning on that continuation btw? < 1258240492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258240498 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1258240511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this "planning" thing you are speaking of < 1258241116 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory is so weird < 1258242188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1258242204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's "Close tabs opened by this tab" only goes 1 level deep < 1258242263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well otherwise it would have to recurse. and that would require recursion. < 1258242322 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i get that < 1258242328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something which would necessitate a recurrence step. < 1258242347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this another fart joke? < 1258242387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and that's bad how? < 1258242415 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the smell would be horrible < 1258242471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: unlikely. although who knows what one might find at the base step. < 1258242503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Sgeoosh < 1258242525 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU TELL ME WHAT THE JOKE WAS ABOUT THIS INSTANT < 1258242532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't say okloosh < 1258242559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would require me explaining what the point of the joke is! < 1258242568 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258242573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrrrrr < 1258242608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the joke actually had nothing to do with chrome < 1258242609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of the oklobear < 1258242615 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just recursion? < 1258242657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a distinct possibility. except it certainly started out relevant for a second. < 1258242799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today, we learn that sometimes people missing the point of a joke can be funnier than the joke itself < 1258242807 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258242824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to grr you dead. < 1258242828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Pthing, oerjan < 1258242849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grrs oklofok to half-death
< 1258242885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a grrrsome death, i assume < 1258242933 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, what was the joke < 1258242963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it was about describing recusion using variants of the word recursion < 1258242970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion. which should be obvious because of the recursion. < 1258243042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well come to think of it there needs to be no chrome reference because recursion already is a tab closing reference < 1258243074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're just trying to be incomprehensible back. < 1258243089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not really! < 1258243128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i tell you there _was_ a chrome reference. < 1258243159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sgeoosh"? < 1258243160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to close descendant tabs more than 1 level deep, what do you need? < 1258243181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..recursion? < 1258243194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ding ding ding* < 1258243210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... there is nothing that has to do with chrome as such, just the tab closing < 1258243245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it could've been firefox's "close all blah" < 1258243254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome is not relevant < 1258243264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you expect me to actually provide relevant _information_? you know how unlikely that is, right? < 1258243295 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is that a joke too? < 1258243301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258243310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that? < 1258243320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs in terror
< 1258243331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is either a joke or a tragedy. and i try to be spare on tragedies in this channel. < 1258243344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can see we are approaching one. < 1258243344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but you shouldn't < 1258243395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that was not an appropriate use of the word "spare".
< 1258243452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there is also a slight occurence of completely trivial blathering < 1258243470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes turning into monologue < 1258243481 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"try to be spare on tragedies" sounds weird to me < 1258243492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes it is. < 1258243504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparing, maybe. < 1258243533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sparsom", i'm just not managing to convert it into english < 1258243570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frugal? < 1258243632 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't get a joke, no use asking me anything < 1258243659 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also even with finnish i usually just google everything) < 1258243674 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with languages) < 1258243679 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh wait i guess finnish implies that) < 1258243890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wikipedia time < 1258244339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other popular web development frameworks include CakePHP (for PHP programmers), Django (for Python programmers), and jQuery (for JavaScript)." < 1258244342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1258245711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods
< 1258245714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still connected? < 1258245722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1258245733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how strange < 1258245750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost connection and my IP changed, yet I'm still connected to this network < 1258245751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258245759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258245762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ipv6 tunnel, of course < 1258245762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258245843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1258245849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →e < 1258245855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/e$// < 1258245870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nighte night < 1258246129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258246307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258248307 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258248871 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250131 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250436 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_combinatorics < 1258250437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258250497 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250994 0 :Rei_Murasame!n=rei_mura@unaffiliated/rei-murasame/x-9412529 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258251004 0 :Rei_Murasame!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258251957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: what about it? < 1258251970 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool < 1258252198 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. i agree < 1258252413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Caroline didn't exactly have these thoughts as I have set them down here;" < 1258252421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses I like that in fiction? < 1258252441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a 3rd person story, I mean < 1258252614 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorial_species < 1258255927 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258256388 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258256736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258257454 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258257680 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258258084 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258258136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It implies that the narrator is a person existing in the universe of the story, not an omnipotent observer. < 1258258163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, the narrator isn't a person existing in the universe of the story < 1258258193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you ... SURE? < 1258258207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he's somebody that a main character explained the story to a decade later, who then wrote it down. < 1258258301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished reading the story < 1258258328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there was one (well, two) other characters around. Both were dead by the time the story ended < 1258258351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........I just spoiled something major < 1258258360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(:(:( < 1258258732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that all good fictional stories should end with every major character dying. < 1258258735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way there are no loose ends. < 1258258869 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258258872 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258258978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the fact that those particular characters are even capable of dying is a spoiler < 1258259074 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258259101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the fact that there is a question to whether these particular characters are even capable of dying is itself a spoiler. < 1258260292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, a spoiler to what the setting is, maybe < 1258262074 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091105041559]" < 1258262457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I feel that all good fictional stories should start with everyone dying. < 1258262460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258263754 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258264696 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258264701 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258267875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258271241 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1258271999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258272000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258274648 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258274943 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_combinatorics < 1258275724 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258275751 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258276407 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258276411 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258278955 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258279428 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258279469 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tav.espians.com/paving-the-way-to-securing-the-python-interpreter.html < 1258279496 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few months old, but new to me. < 1258280174 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258281303 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258282484 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258287221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm once I get ick fully working on classic I should make some sort of installer script < 1258287236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks around for some "Apple Installer SDK" he has a vague memory of
< 1258287729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn flex generates this just before the function: < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifndef __cplusplus < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern int isatty (int ); < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif /* __cplusplus */ < 1258287765 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258287852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a function rather than a macro is needed < 1258288703 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258289229 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258289233 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258289604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking for an apple share sever for *nix
< 1258289609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea? < 1258289647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be useful for keeping the ick thing in sync between emulator, real mac, and linux < 1258289655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one working copy only < 1258291127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, the system headers with MPW are really broad. There is even stuff there for defined(__GNUC__) && defined(__linux__) < 1258291131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quite unexpected < 1258291167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a "warning unsupported compiler" after it, but it then goes on to define various stuff for it < 1258291200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mingw egcs? what the hell < 1258291225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there seems to have been a gcc for mpw once upon a time < 1258291249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that is yet another variant handled < 1258291292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there is "visual C++ with Macintosh target" too!) < 1258291333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sun compiler. Okay these guys were crazy. half of these handled cases aren't even relevant for a mac... < 1258292510 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258294106 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258294171 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258294946 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258295118 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258295120 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1258296406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW shell sure has strange commands (and command names): "Dolt - highlight and execute a series of shell commands" < 1258296438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I can't find any simple way to write \r or \n in it... < 1258297483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaaay.... I found out, but it seems undocumented for writing LF. CR is ∂n but it seems that ∂r actually works for LF. < 1258297491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the latter is as far as I can tell undocumented < 1258298045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes found it documented in release notes for a minor update < 1258298050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hidden < 1258298104 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258300044 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.120.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258300057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how edible < 1258300139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:52:17 This has some rendering issues in the input line window: http://zem.fi/~fis/ircle.png < 1258300139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE SYSTEM 6 FUCKER < 1258300141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258300465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for ehird's comments on the MPW rant just above
< 1258300471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:02 oh, I think it's a mix of spaces and tabs < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:07 that looks correct with tab=8, as it always should be < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd argue, but you don't know anything about tabs or their history and i do and you still insist you're right, so i won't < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:57 but tabs are dumb anyways < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not < 1258300474 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258300475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: getting there! :P < 1258300491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:01 tab-space mixing is such a truly horrible idea < 1258300492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:22 if you use tabs properly, everything will still look right to someone with a different tab setting < 1258300492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ * infinity < 1258300493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the tabs vs. spaces will be uh a pointless flamewar to read < 1258300509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tabs vs spaces, yes, but you can define it as a set of tradeoffs < 1258300520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:05:13 coppro: any tab setting but 8 is wrong and broken < 1258300520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this, however, is just ais523 making shit up < 1258300525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could also define it as a "holy flamewar" < 1258300537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is that you can end spaces/tabs by listing the tradeoffs < 1258300552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't argue against "tabs=8 OR YOU DIE because I said so QED" < 1258300563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1258300565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the same argument you use against any such assertion, "uh... no" < 1258300591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:07:46 coppro: the tab width setting is going to matter whenever you use spaces < 1258300591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258300598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use tab at the start of a line to indent < 1258300601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab to indent past that < 1258300603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spaces to align < 1258300605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we said that already < 1258300607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple, very sane < 1258300607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't help < 1258300611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just reiterating it < 1258300615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he thinks everyone agrees with him < 1258300619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but ais doesn't logread < 1258300632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258300637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does he? < 1258300639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to vent, because he's always an idiot about tabs=8 < 1258300663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:08:14 coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line < 1258300663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, a circular argument! < 1258300678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, he managed at least one more iirc < 1258300684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're pretty rare in practice, but he's actually managed one. < 1258300714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they are rare? They seems quite common in flamewars in my experience < 1258300733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, in flamewars, but not in things masquerading as actual arguments < 1258300739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other people to regularly do it are the religious < 1258300754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "things masquerading as actual arguments" *also* pretty common in flamewars? < 1258300763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people try to pretend it isn't one < 1258300788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e :P < 1258300797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:08:57 ais523: then indent with spaces and spaces only < 1258300797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, don't copout of the argument — he's wrong and this just makes him think he's won < 1258300809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:22 coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line <-- not at all < 1258300810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree even with tabs=8 that it's fine < 1258300814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't nest so much! < 1258300843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he ended up suggesting tab=3 was more common than tab=4 even iirc.. < 1258300846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:37 (any editor that allows you to set tab to anything but 8 is suspicious, any editor that /defaults/ to anything but 8 is simply broken) < 1258300846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspicious? ahahaha. And I guess that makes BBEdit, a very well-regarded editor, broken since 1993. < 1258300852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:45 tabs are not 8 by definiton < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:49 yes they are < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUNNING ARGUMENT < 1258300881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:05 ais523, why < 1258300881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come you're the one being logical and rational and he's just asserting shit? < 1258300887 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258300892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MIXED UP YOUR ALT ACCOUNTS, ANMASTER523! < 1258300896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, har har < 1258300901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/aisMaster < 1258300918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:15 coppro: you'll break all the applications that assume that tab=8 if you do that < 1258300918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:23 ais523, yes because those apps are broken < 1258300919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:25 e.g. --help output often uses 8-space tabs < 1258300919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they use tabs < 1258300924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look fine no matter what the spacing < 1258300936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would never argue for tab = 8 though. That wouldn't just be me. I used to use tab = 2, then later went tab = 4 < 1258300943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with using tabs to indent is that if you want 80-column lines, what you get depends on the tab width. < 1258300950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=8 is fine in C, great in Go < 1258300952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've chosen to not give a shit.) < 1258300962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=8 gets awkward if you nazi-like insist on 80 cols, ofc < 1258300975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ken thompson says not to worry about line length in go :P < 1258300986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ha i wrote my shit before yours < 1258300992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, nobody cares < 1258301000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measure with =8 if you want, nobody sets it *above* that < 1258301014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I measure with =3 and give no shit since nobody cares anyway < 1258301019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think someone suggested tab=13 a bit later < 1258301029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a joke) < 1258301029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wc can use tabs (chars\twords\tlines) and it'll look fine whatever the tab width < 1258301052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some put a \t before the chars, which is stupid, but doesn't matter < 1258301061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258301066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is even wrong traditionally < 1258301074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs go to the column that is the NEXT MULTIPLE of 8 traditionally < 1258301081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before non-tab chars, this is 8 spaces < 1258301093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (6 chars)a is (6 chars)(two spaces)a < 1258301110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, the thing about sun and java later was just to show how absurd he was acting when referring to indent(1) as some sort of authority < 1258301119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you misinterpret that < 1258301129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably has gnu indent, which uses gnu style by default < 1258301131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some fucking authority < 1258301143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, he was referring to both gnu and sun ones. < 1258301148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258301156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, sun; well-known purveyors of good unix < 1258301156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1258301179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:18 so if you use tabs alone for indentation, you end up in the stupid situation where you can't read the program in anything but an editor < 1258301180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do your eyes suddenly start to bleed when you see 8 spaces? < 1258301183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, sure you can read it fine < 1258301190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any tab width < 1258301198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, he thinks indentation=alignment prolly < 1258301202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there was this "setterm" command to make it work on a terminal < 1258301204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably be his counterargument < 1258301207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had been mentioned then already < 1258301216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:45 also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines < 1258301216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fit on the screen" < 1258301217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew it < 1258301222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 actually uses a vt100 < 1258301230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258301233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, his editor can't line-wrap < 1258301251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can set vim to add one more level of indentation post-wrapping iirc, which is nice) < 1258301261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks just like manual wrapping < 1258301329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:06 also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines <-- you don't. 100 columns is just fine. More than that isn't I agree < 1258301329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I would have put you down as an 80-columns type < 1258301331 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258301344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:10 AnMaster: presumably that was added to cope with the broken editors < 1258301345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A CONSPIRACY < 1258301352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every counterargument is just because everything is broken!!! < 1258301367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:24 AnMaster: I can fit about 83 characters horizontally on my screen, on a half-screen-width window < 1258301367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is why people don't buy £300 laptops < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:17:32 oklofok: agreed; the reason to keep tabsize at a default of 8 is because that's what tabs have been for ever, and what a tab actually means <-- what a tab actually means says who? < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[…] < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:17:48 says more or less every program in existence, apart from a few editors < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this of course he is discounting all your other examples < 1258301425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're clearly because of broken editors! < 1258301430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fallacies are outstanding < 1258301437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, I would have put you down as an 80-columns type <-- why on earth. You edited cfunge yourself and commented upon that it went past 80 columns < 1258301443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short memory? ;P < 1258301446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we _please_ start teaching basic rational argument early on in schools? < 1258301455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world would be a much better place < 1258301460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wish < 1258301480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conservative christians would complain :D < 1258301512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only in US though. ais is in UK < 1258301520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258301537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and US is so backwards anyway that it is a lost cause. < 1258301549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it "lost case"? < 1258301558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason to go to the US is to work at google or go to a university :P < 1258301560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the lawyers there it probably is. < 1258301574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or apple < 1258301577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not microsoft :P < 1258301581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about universities in Europe? < 1258301595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT is the single best university for CS, so... < 1258301602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258301634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's in Massachusetts, so you could pretend it's warm canada :P) < 1258301693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I found an old python version for classic mac os < 1258301697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2.1 < 1258301699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, MacPython < 1258301706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an IDE and stuff < 1258301715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems to be idle there < 1258301735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was python for windows that had its own ide way back < 1258301765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258301769 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:35 and that relied on tab=8 < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:41 AnMaster: it's used the \t forever < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:45 since before I took it over < 1258301777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:56 further evidence that tab should equal 8... < 1258301777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, because you use it that way? < 1258301777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idle-lookalike (or idle) gives a traceback as the first thing < 1258301783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what kind of table-maker depends on tab=8?!) < 1258301786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just split on \t+) < 1258301799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can align just fine if the entry is >8 chars, and it still works < 1258301810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:27 oklofok: the point was, I wasn't sure how wide each of the columns would be < 1258301810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................so? < 1258301835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does this python error look bad: "ValueError: Bad Marshal Data" < 1258301849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshal is an object deserialisation/serialisation model (unsafe so use pickle for user code) < 1258301850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, was lower case text < 1258301855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used for .pyc objects etc < 1258301877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but you aren't supposed to get a traceback about that when opening python right? < 1258301886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one of the system files has an invalid pyc < 1258301887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pyo < 1258301892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe hm < 1258301899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove them all and try again < 1258301926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. have to find them first < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:38 ais523, it's like saying GNU cat is some role model for all cat's < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:41 cats* < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here kitty kitty." < 1258301939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hewe kwitty kwitty" < 1258301939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YOU CAN TALK?!" < 1258301953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but he knew they were of size 6-7, so tabsize of 8 made most sense, because he didn't need to adjust them to make it look pretty < 1258301959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"V FUCK YOU!" < 1258301960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emphasis FUCK YOU! end of line" < 1258301975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: so he picked the tab width based on the contents? I thought it was 8 no matter what! < 1258301978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258302005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:49 that's weird, actually, doesn't GNU coding style prefer tab width of 2? < 1258302005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as spaces < 1258302006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) < 1258302009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1258302009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1258302013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1258302016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4 in practice, except for functions < 1258302018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe more like 8 because 6-7 is such a common distribution < 1258302024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wraps < 1258302058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:25:12 AnMaster: err, I expect them to have followed industry practice at the time? < 1258302059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any idea how much sun's unices were hacked around? < 1258302062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, great. that value error happens randomly. about 3 times out of 7 or so of starting the IDE < 1258302066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing pyc files didn't help < 1258302074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sheepshaver :P < 1258302081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was on a real mac < 1258302082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1258302086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno then < 1258302092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was the context of "industry practice" there? < 1258302102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:26:03 AnMaster: it doesn't even set it to an integer < 1258302102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tradition doesn't < 1258302114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's traditionally be go-to-next-multiple-of-8 < 1258302118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all your argument-by-tradition is invalid < 1258302131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: their indent(1) < 1258302135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming tabs=8 < 1258302157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:28:23 given that this is a traditional flamewar, you can't go looking for a page that advocates one side of the flamewar, because there's bound to be one < 1258302157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, tabs vs spaces is traditional < 1258302165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs=8 is never said by people who have learned what tab actually is < 1258302179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1258302190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:28:48 2 and 3 tend to be more common, 4 is a Pythonism < 1258302190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pythonism?! No... < 1258302190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it when ehird is on my side < 1258302195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pythonism is 4-spaces. < 1258302198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabs are very much discouragedd. < 1258302201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discouraged < 1258302206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people were indenting C by 4 since — < 1258302207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know you don't have to fight when there's someone like him < 1258302210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, same. < 1258302210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the 3 more common than 4 line < 1258302212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1258302216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you upset me ais523 < 1258302218 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :energy, POWAH < 1258302220 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has < 1258302222 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fighting < 1258302223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yeah indeed. It is nice for a change < 1258302230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i have some kind of compulsion to viciously argue against idiots :D < 1258302246 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1258302259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're internet people < 1258302262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wonder why there is some "Build application" drag-python-file-to-me application thingy with this macpython < 1258302269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes a mac app < 1258302271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of python files < 1258302278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still exists today < 1258302281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, native compiler? < 1258302283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258302285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes python < 1258302289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your .pycs < 1258302290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258302298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .pyos, which are just optimised .pycs < 1258302300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's good for e.g. games < 1258302312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an identical one called "build applet" too < 1258302318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the difference would be < 1258302319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1258302324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identical icon < 1258302346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:53 * SimonRC gets out his soldering iron; and the documentation for several popular HTML renderers. < 1258302346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here to solder things and read the documentation for several popular HTML renderers, and I'm allllll out of documentation. < 1258302418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very strange line you quoted... < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:56 SimonRC: DOS edit? Notepad? less without having to type out the -x option every time you view a file? < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:16 more, fwiw, which doesn't have -x? < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks fine at tab=8, anyway. < 1258302433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HTML renderers generally render as tab=4 < 1258302447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I mean the soldering iron. What has it got to do with things < 1258302448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHICH IS BECAUSE THE WORLD IS DEAD AND BROKEN AND ITS ASHES SHITTED ON < 1258302452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who knows! < 1258302485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHICH IS BECAUSE THE WORLD IS DEAD AND BROKEN AND ITS ASHES SHITTED ON <--- I must have left by then? Or my memory refused to remember that < 1258302501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:38:33 AnMaster: well, I'm confused, because I'm 22 < 1258302502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, you had a bbc thingy when you were young < 1258302537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either your parents didn't allocate much of their budget to buying you technology, your parents were poor, or they had this evil plan to bring you up as if it was years ago < 1258302551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the middle one meant i was using 3.11 in 1995 :-P) < 1258302560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258302561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1995 < 1258302563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995+3 < 1258302565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet you have a mac now. That's not cheap. < 1258302566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1998 < 1258302576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because economic situations never change :P < 1258302587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1258302595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, it's not like they're rich or anything < 1258302616 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258302616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UNIX tools can be trivially ported to run in the MPW environment. Some examples of those that have been ported are awk, bison, yacc, lex, diff, flex, sed, perl, python, tags, and gcc." < 1258302617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258302624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says apple's MPW "advantages" page < 1258302631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet gcc wasn't so trivial < 1258302653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait till you read about the MPW include files in the scrollback < 1258302671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hint: gcc/egcs < 1258302693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish egcs didn't merge, it may have become something other than the worst GNU horror ever < 1258302753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, python and perl would be quite impressive too < 1258302832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:40:17 AnMaster: say you want to print out a Word document, or whatever < 1258302832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd convert it to PostScript, and— oh, you're talking about shitty printers. < 1258302885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did the tab discussion really go on for that long? < 1258302901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have occupied the majority of an entire day < 1258302920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/day/night/ unless I misremember? < 1258302929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you were born in 1995 right? < 1258302932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure. < 1258302936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeppers. < 1258302951 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just surating < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, I did get a computer when I was 3... not sure why, but hey.) < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:33 I'm happy to have grown up on mac < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:37 things just worked there < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:47 and there was no terminal < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most un-AnMaster like thing ever said? You decide. < 1258302978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surated knife. < 1258302982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't the "unimportant edge case" I said once less un-AnMasterish? < 1258302994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, being happy there was no terminall? < 1258302996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*terminal < 1258303046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:48:32 AnMaster: You could be Illiad in disguise. < 1258303046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the terrible sense of humour < 1258303055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userfriendly is marginally ffunnier than garfield < 1258303059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*funnier < 1258303063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say that. The scoping was wrong. As in "there was no terminal there" was not one of the reasons for being happy with it < 1258303070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it didn't matter either way < 1258303072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, but still :P < 1258303073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab food < 1258303229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION flips back through a few UserFriendlies, sees a baww-type story about cancer and Pitr *still* talking faux-russian
< 1258303235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did that start, 2000?! < 1258303240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmed, still shit < 1258303262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started pretty early < 1258303297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably only a dozen or so strips at the start where he doesn't < 1258303496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I stopped reading UF some time ago. < 1258303513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:01:45 indeed < 1258303513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:01:51 I wish I had written an answer like that :( < 1258303514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:02:12 oh wow, one of my answers hit 50 votes :) < 1258303514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Stack Overflow is that it turns people into RPG-style karma whores instead of good helpers. < 1258303523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that shit. Stack Overflow is a cesspool in practice which just proves it. < 1258303546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Experts Exchange usually had the right answer if it had any. < 1258303549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fuck that shit. Stack Overflow is a cesspool in practice which just proves it. <-- ah. That explains a lot about ick. cesspool.c < 1258303557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it recur? < 1258303570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does? < 1258303605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c :P < 1258303606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack overflow < 1258303608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:30:38 how about we stop using autoconf < 1258303609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:31:14 coppro: because if used correctly you can actually make it work < 1258303609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with a knife, for murder. < 1258303614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S KEEP MURDERING PEOPLE WITH KNIVES < 1258303627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Autotools is actually literally as bad as knife murder.) < 1258303630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Those poor knives!)) < 1258303644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah. was a bad joke < 1258303675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION happened to have that file open in an editor and thus read ehird's line as containing the word "cesspool.c" first time around
< 1258303702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/11/say-yes-i-need-job.html < 1258303828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "MakeFile" < 1258303843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so f-thing is : < 1258303844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1258303849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icelandic d is \ < 1258303850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MPW < 1258303862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, says Makefile here < 1258303873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258303884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it refuses to highlight MakeFile and makefile for me < 1258303888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW 3.1:Examples:CExamples:MakeFile < 1258303890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very un-macish < 1258303900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed you are right < 1258303906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one does highlight < 1258303909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1258303918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably has a file type :P < 1258303930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, uh, Link(1) looks scary. < 1258303942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it's TEXT as file type < 1258303947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same all as the other ones < 1258303963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed MPW uses file extensions :P < 1258303964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Link? it crashes sheepshaver for me. PPCLink works < 1258303982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link is 68k duh :P < 1258303987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know < 1258303990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe if(68k) < 1258303993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else ppc < 1258303997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the syntax, anyway < 1258304004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but then why does some 68k apps run under sheepshaver? < 1258304018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like ones I compiled on a real mac) < 1258304021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fat binaries (both 68k & ppc) and 68k emulation < 1258304032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like universal binaries and rosetta from ppc→intel < 1258304033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I made sure it wasn't a fat one < 1258304036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stupid < 1258304039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the latter < 1258304048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258304059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except rosetta is a better ppc emulator than the 68k one was :P < 1258304062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what do you think about that crazy header in MPW I mentioned? < 1258304066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the logs < 1258304067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 68k that is xD < 1258304070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still reading < 1258304101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:36:50 and my university does, but I couldn't sensibly put it there, it's unrelated to my research < 1258304101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, tons of people have websites on university accounts < 1258304118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but they're evil! IT SAYS IN THIS POLICY— < 1258304122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not ais. Same as he would never pirate anything < 1258304157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not want laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them." — Demonax < 1258304165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what kind of man ais523 is, then < 1258304169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Crazy"? :P < 1258304174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe < 1258304182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, who is that "demonax"? < 1258304190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greek philosopher < 1258304193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258304198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the most awesome name ever < 1258304206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he kills people with his demon axe! < 1258304227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh I know the answer < 1258304232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to tell the good from the bad" < 1258304241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without laws you can't point out who are the bad ones < 1258304248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258304252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good men can point out who the bad men are :P < 1258304252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use "moral" for that < 1258304266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bad men could lie about it and frame god men? < 1258304277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you forgot the category "stupid men") < 1258304353 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258304381 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:57] ehird: (Utilitarianism FTW.) < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: Gah, I lost my net connection? < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: Hello? < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: It's connecting... < 1258304389 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already logread. < 1258304393 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, not totally. < 1258304396 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the bits I didn't hear < 1258304410 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:57:46 ehird, bad men could lie about it and frame god men? < 1258304411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:57:57 (you forgot the category "stupid men") < 1258304411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what baring this has on Demonax's statement < 1258304430 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More modernly rephrased, it's "Moral people are moral without laws, and immoral people ignore the laws". < 1258304451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, what about the MPW header then? < 1258304464 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that back in his time, there weren't people so afraid of authority that law was the only thing stopping them breaking it. < 1258304473 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such obedience is more of a modern thing, I think. < 1258304474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers* < 1258304478 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still reading the previous day :P < 1258304490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, oh multi-place log reading? < 1258304509 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for my disconnection < 1258304565 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:12 ais523, wb < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:23 ais523, wrong button? < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:32 no, I was leaving in exasperation < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's passive-aggressiveness. < 1258304611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this because punishments are smaller? < 1258304625 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: in reply to my modern-obedience? < 1258304626 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird_: I imagine that..." <<< < 1258304628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258304660 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just culture. The conservatives advocate such crazy obedience to authority (well, when they're in power), but the liberals do too, really. < 1258304664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that would make a lot of no sense < 1258304676 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258304691 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly libertarians aren't so obedient, but they're all so irritating that it doesn't help the cause. < 1258304759 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that many things are modern things < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:12 the name is an unfortunate one < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:19 it's about as accurate as "biscuit semantics" would be < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:23 we get that < 1258304769 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO I THINK HE HAS TO TELL US SOME MORE < 1258304772 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i mean modern quite loosely < 1258304789 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely such a submissive, afraid-of-authority society isn't an ancient thing < 1258304800 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's christianity that did it; "god-fearing" being positive < 1258304836 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL DUNNO < 1258304903 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my historian gf usually disagrees when i try to say ideas or patterns are inherently modern. < 1258304939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe history gets simplified when it's written down?? < 1258304941 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people ignore law anyway, because it's extremely hard to actually find out what all the laws are < 1258304945 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you don't say. < 1258304959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws paws < 1258304974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i blow your mind < 1258304977 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258304991 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.diovo.com/2009/11/the-general-pirate-license/ what an awful license < 1258305016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I got something that you can actually run directly after compile now (without messing around manually with copying ick-wrap.c and syslib.i and such < 1258305034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, so what about the MPW HEADERS? < 1258305044 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL FUCKING LOGREADING BITCH :||||||||| < 1258305070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258305076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURRY UP? < 1258305077 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL STOP FUCKING HER SO SHE CAN FINISH < 1258305092 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "fucking" joke never gets old < 1258305098 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:08 Hm. < 1258305098 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:24 Chrome's "Close tabs opened by this tab" only goes 1 level deep < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:44:23 well otherwise it would have to recurse. and that would require recursion. < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:22 i'm not sure i get that < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:28 something which would necessitate a recurrence step. < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:47 is this another fart joke? < 1258305101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258305103 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xD < 1258305105 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid capslock < 1258305133 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:53:44 i'm going to grr you dead. < 1258305133 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258305209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:52 I feel that all good fictional stories should end with every major character dying. < 1258305209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:55 That way there are no loose ends. < 1258305212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was angry and probably a bit scary too < 1258305213 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the minor characters? < 1258305225 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mechanical happenings. < 1258305232 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY WORK MUST END WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF THE MULTIVERSE < 1258305251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT ABOUT THE PAST < 1258305261 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about your ass < 1258305265 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...That didn't even rhyme < 1258305267 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i say that < 1258305268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1258305289 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:22:13 a sun compiler. Okay these guys were crazy. half of these handled cases aren't even relevant for a mac... < 1258305292 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just have bought the header files < 1258305305 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:46:46 MPW shell sure has strange commands (and command names): "Dolt - highlight and execute a series of shell commands" < 1258305306 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the workspace thingy < 1258305310 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a smalltalk transcript < 1258305313 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text that you can run parts of < 1258305316 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by highlighting < 1258305322 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Worksheet < 1258305325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258305326 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1258305339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258305376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no. There is a comment at the end asking people to send in more compiler detection and defines to apple if one is missing < 1258305389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for ported compilers, then < 1258305390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember < 1258305392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metrowerks < 1258305395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for non-MPW stuff < 1258305399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the only compiler in time, nor the most common < 1258305404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Metrowerks was the most common, I believe) < 1258305410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some of them ran on pc. Like that C++ *targeting* mac. < 1258305420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW cost too much < 1258305420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it says also "runs on windows nt" < 1258305426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly for enterprisey things < 1258305442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cross-compiling < 1258305446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs were kinda shit in those days < 1258305446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have metroworks around here somewhere too. Seems easier to use interface but less advanced < 1258305455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nobody developed on them < 1258305459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NT was a sturdy workstation OS < 1258305472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the egcs for MPW thingy? < 1258305488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc sucked < 1258305501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think compiling gcc-needing libraries, etc) < 1258305575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was why there was a native version for MPW? < 1258305579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. okay... < 1258305586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258305594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1258305606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec will find the header < 1258305626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know where your header files are? < 1258305631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not < 1258305641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "{CIncludes}" < 1258305641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258305660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at "ConditionalMacros.h" in that directory < 1258305727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open "{CIncludes}ConditionalMacros.h" tell me it doesn't exist < 1258305730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post-1988 I presume :P < 1258305740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tells < 1258305756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1258305780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does About MPW... give you a fun animation? < 1258305785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does for me! < 1258305977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1258305980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in colour? < 1258305994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1258306001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It assembles a floppy then spray-paints it white. < 1258306004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about things flying out of a toolbox, then some paint sprayed on < 1258306005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CD for you, I'd wager. < 1258306011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end result is a blue floppy < 1258306016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258306019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Okay then. < 1258306023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light blue floppy < 1258306169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Go's networking is like Plan9's dial(). < 1258306178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "sockets", just a connector returning a file. < 1258306192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprising considering it's the same people. < 1258306195 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258306371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about listening for connections? < 1258306383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about connections. < 1258306386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you make. < 1258306394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I understood that. < 1258306401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Listener is a generic network listener for stream-oriented protocols. Accept waits for the next connection and Close closes the connection." < 1258306404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if I want to implement a server < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Listener interface { < 1258306407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aha < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Accept() (c Conn, err os.Error); < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Close() os.Error; < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Addr() Addr; // Listener's network address < 1258306408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258306424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1258306427 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258306435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conn, err := listener.Accept(); < 1258306448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then conn is a subtype of Conn, which is a file < 1258306454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably TCPConn) < 1258306471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so more like normal networking then < 1258306482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, a listener is, of course, a sane concept. < 1258306505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But having connections just be files with some useful extra stuff — BSD sockets rapes that. < 1258306524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't sound too different from binding to a socket? Just it happens to be listen() bind() and accept() instead of a object representing it < 1258306525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Berkeley sockets are so fugly to use, actually. I'd expect better from the BSD guys. < 1258306532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's listeners. < 1258306542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's what I'm talking about < 1258306542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The important thing is what you get from a listener, and how you connect yourself. < 1258306548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing wrong with listeneers. < 1258306550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*listeners < 1258306553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258306554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something wrong with sockets. < 1258306567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially connecting) < 1258306587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to do a bloody *ugly cast of a reference* just to connect with a BSD socket...) < 1258306593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, by reference I mean pointer-by-&foo < 1258306601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pass the sizeof < 1258306654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah ick is trying to open :share:/ick-wrap.c < 1258306657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hilarious < 1258306660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heeh < 1258306661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1258306670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes looking at the source for where to change that
< 1258306674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you create a Listener by e.g.: < 1258306723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo Listener = net.ListenTCP("tcp", net.ResolveTCPAddr("0.0.0.0:6667") < 1258306729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a TCPListener < 1258306735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258306736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1258306741 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258306743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could construct a TCPAddr yourself, though < 1258306772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{IP: net.ParseIP("0.0.0.0"), Port: 6667} < 1258306772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1258306785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{IP: net.IPv4(0, 0, 0, 0), Port: 6667} < 1258306796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just passing < 1258306800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\0\0\0\0" < 1258306804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258306811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and D&D < 1258306819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same as {0,0,0,0} here; byte=uint8) < 1258306826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and type IP []byte) < 1258306838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is Go statically typed? < 1258306841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258306851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more strongly than C < 1258306854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it has pointers < 1258306856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1258306858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no pointer arithmetic, though) < 1258306860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than ADA? < 1258306862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1258306866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't break the type-system < 1258306870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, I love pointer arithmetics < 1258306872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: I feel that all good fictional stories should start with everyone dying. < 1258306873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using a module basically the same as Haskell's Unsafe.Shit.Crap < 1258306882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand some do < 1258306883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258306886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, it isn't OOP, btw < 1258306894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago < 1258306901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1258306917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which theme was it now again? < 1258306925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has structs, interfaces (basically a type full of function signatures, and anything with a method of a compatible type is typed as that interface; it's strongly-typed duck typing) and methods < 1258306927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methods are just < 1258306928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1258306934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func Foo(...) < 1258306936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1258306944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something hobbitual < 1258306947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) < 1258306948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1258306950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing *SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) < 1258306953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can do thing.Foo() < 1258306961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have e.g. < 1258306977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Foo struct {*Bar; ExtraField int;} < 1258306985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not a hobbit joke surely? < 1258306986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do someFoo.MethodOnBar() < 1258306993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, struct entries without names are "included" < 1258307004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not a hobbit pun, no < 1258307010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just have structs, interfaces, some syntactic sugar and unnamed-structs-are-inlined < 1258307015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have a system *better* than OOP < 1258307023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : func (thing SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) <-- so what is parameter list, and what is return type? < 1258307029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't figure out how to read it
< 1258307036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func main() < 1258307038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1258307043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a no-argument function main < 1258307045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that returns nothing < 1258307047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like void) < 1258307049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo() int < 1258307054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a no-argument function foo that returns an int < 1258307057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(a int) int < 1258307058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that sounds like pascal < 1258307059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is int→int < 1258307062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it had return type last too < 1258307071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing *Foo) blah(a int) int < 1258307072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1258307077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah more languages than pascal do < 1258307079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aFoo.blah(anInt) → int < 1258307095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "thing"? < 1258307101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is then aFoo. < 1258307103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in blah() < 1258307106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a key word? < 1258307107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1258307108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258307112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a var name < 1258307116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you read < 1258307116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258307120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo bar(baz) quux < 1258307121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as < 1258307129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function bar on foo, taking baz and returning quux < 1258307129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1258307132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo bar(baz) quux < 1258307133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1258307135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.bar(baz) → quux < 1258307137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258307141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1258307145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also have multiple return vars < 1258307151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance < 1258307152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (c *TCPConn) Read(b []byte) (n int, err os.Error) < 1258307160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit hard to read, but that is just due to not being used to it < 1258307166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that you do aTCPConn.Read(aByteArray) < 1258307354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307354 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307357 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307357 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307360 0 :Guest19337!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307368 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307368 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307371 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307371 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307380 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307383 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307388 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307391 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307391 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307393 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307396 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307399 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307399 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307400 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307402 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307404 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307404 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258308000 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308000 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :mtve!n=nnnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Guest19337!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-118-139.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fileiter=ICK_PATHUPTREE "include"; < 1258308187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it is using partly < 1258308187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the guessdir parameter < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right, well, having an exact path is of course better than that hack < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of hardcoding ..) < 1258308188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, problem is it adds / somewhere < 1258308188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is in that function < 1258308191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be the cause of :share:/syslib.i < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 while(*guessdir != '\0' && i" < 1258308678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1258308680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "/dev/stdin" < 1258308682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1258308686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the headers define it, but i doubt it < 1258308689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a ____ thiing < 1258308690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258308707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes http://www.paulgraham.com/accgen.html but with a fixed-size int instead of number first, to be precise
< 1258308707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my "detect if this is mac" won't break that then < 1258308713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure we have bigfloats :P < 1258308722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll make it use an interface the second time I guess < 1258308760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because the only common thing that all mac compilers I used (MrC, SC, CodeWarrior) defines is "macintosh" < 1258308767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PPC ones define powerc and __powerc < 1258308868 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) func (int) int { < 1258308883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { return n += i } < 1258308883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258308884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258308885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that < 1258308898 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is an interface? < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) func (int) int { < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { return n += i } < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258308903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no < 1258308909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing a fixed-size regular int first, just there < 1258308910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme test it < 1258308917 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1258308952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you said that already < 1258308963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to read lines all the way to the end < 1258308982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw why did ais use indention=2 in that file if he liked indent=4 tab=8... < 1258308997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1258309011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, he chose to format the dna maze code with the intention of annoying the most amount of people < 1258309039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has almost no spaces, mixed spaces and tabs, 2 (iirc) indent, {s on the starting line, and }s on the same line as the last statement < 1258309046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it made me want to fucking rip his head off when trying to make it compile < 1258309048 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6g intacc.go < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:5: syntax error near int < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:6: syntax error near int < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:10: syntax error near bar < 1258309066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so good. < 1258309072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309076 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103| i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309094 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalker1 < 1258309095 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1258309099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "detect absolute argv" thing won't work on mac < 1258309100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1258309103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, += is a statement < 1258309109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:dir:file < 1258309113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is absolute < 1258309113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1258309114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so there are no ++ ordering issues) < 1258309117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dir:file < 1258309118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is relative < 1258309119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is < 1258309122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file < 1258309122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course, you have to return a function pointer < 1258309126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) *func (int) int { < 1258309128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more readably < 1258309130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1258309133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) *(func (int) int) { < 1258309135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1258309158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, non-trivial to check in C. Well trivial but a bit of work < 1258309184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:6: cannot use (node O-33) (type func(i int) (int)) as type *func(int) (int) < 1258309198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a second to realise I needed & before the func in return func(i int) int { n += i; return n } there < 1258309202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic pointerification would be scary < 1258309282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can't do &func ... < 1258309283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1258309321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and apps seems to get relative paths only *checks for mpw tools* < 1258309328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258309336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can return functions directly < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./6.out < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(0) = 3 < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(3) = 6 < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(2) = 8 < 1258309383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1258309386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258309388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func (int) int) { < 1258309389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { n += i; return n }; < 1258309389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258309396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, that last ; isn't required < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func (int) int) { < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n += i; < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return n; < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258309433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks gofmt < 1258309474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258309475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func(int) int) { < 1258309476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is better < 1258309523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklofok: http://sprunge.us/JXMf < 1258309529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make a generic-number version < 1258309569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice how you can return a function that isn't a pointer < 1258309612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by number paul graham means non-ints and bignum i guess < 1258309633 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-86-101.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258309634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big This package implements multi-precision arithmetic (big numbers). < 1258309634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum A package for arbitrary precision arithmethic. < 1258309635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1258309640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum is bigger < 1258309643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does non-ints < 1258309650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This package has been designed for ease of use but the functions it provides are likely to be quite slow. It may be deprecated eventually. Use package big instead, if possible. < 1258309651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258309855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think by number he means something you can increment and test against zero < 1258309873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why is ais checking of argv[0] contains at least one / < 1258309874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the natural definition! < 1258309878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point < 1258309883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be absolute or relative < 1258309886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't know < 1258309894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on *nix < 1258309924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is he reasoning like "oh, if it doesn't contain any path it probably isn't in current directory, but if it does it is probably relative current directory"? < 1258309927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258309944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258310022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you don't need to test against zero < 1258310023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just increment :P < 1258310050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6g acc.go < 1258310051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bus error < 1258310051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boggles* < 1258310073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but i don't think a number that can't be compared to others is a very useful number < 1258310095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, can't whittle it down < 1258310101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gdb? < 1258310106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does gdb not support go yet < 1258310113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gc is written in c < 1258310116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have it's own debugger? < 1258310120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(6g = gc for 64-bit) < 1258310121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't use libc < 1258310124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh hah was that the compiler crashing? < 1258310127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258310132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 6g makes me thing of i686 < 1258310133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses lib9, plan9port's ported plan9 libc) < 1258310137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than x86_64 < 1258310156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x*[8]6, amd[6]4, arm[INEXPLICABLE 5] < 1258310159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258310161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x[8]6, amd[6]4, arm[INEXPLICABLE 5] < 1258310167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258310184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a 6 in x86 too < 1258310190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it isn't the first digit < 1258310191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't 8 and 4 have been safer? < 1258310199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically 8* is for 386 in plan9 < 1258310200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no collision risk then < 1258310210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it calls it 386 < 1258310210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not x86 < 1258310213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would that be 3? < 1258310213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258310213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3 was prolly taken < 1258310215 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258310218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258310221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 6 is easily-memorable as 64-bit < 1258310231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is, eh, x86 nowadays, so pretty memorable < 1258310238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sure if you did arm work 5 would become memorable too < 1258310257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a big deal < 1258310270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why use numbers? why not something like g -86 g -64 or such? (Not that those two are logical, but they are shorer than logical ones) < 1258310286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: separate binaries has a very good reason < 1258310293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice upside is that if you just compile and install 5* on e.g. amd64 < 1258310300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it seems so illogical you would keep thinking about "why", thus you would remember it < 1258310301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use them to cross-compile < 1258310304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1258310309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each is portable < 1258310313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross-compiling becomes no big deal < 1258310333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um how does having a binary able to compile to all not do that < 1258310336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mix-and-match, and each program does one thing ("compile go source to ARM object" "link ARM objects in the plan 9 linker format") < 1258310341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gcc -m32 and gcc -m64 after all < 1258310344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one binary < 1258310348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's wasteful to include every architecture+os in every compiler < 1258310355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole point is that you don't have to tell the build system < 1258310357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cross compile it < 1258310364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, could do it as a wrapper that calls the right internal binary I guess < 1258310364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just tell it you're e.g. ARM < 1258310366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1258310367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does 5g < 1258310368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and voila < 1258310375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no real point < 1258310378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1258310380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the internal binaries are usable as-is < 1258310403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only downside is that there's no way to quickly do "whatevertherightoneis file" in a build system or whatever < 1258310405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically void < 1258310408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because go has makefiles < 1258310421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw you mentioned in that ick_findandfopen there were lots of duplicate code? < 1258310422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258310426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TARG=progname < 1258310426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOFILES=foo.go bar.go < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.cmd < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're done < 1258310431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cmd/pkg and you generate a library < 1258310433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick_findandtestopen is basically a copy of it < 1258310434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install/clean works with both < 1258310434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed a bit < 1258310438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very convenient < 1258310438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1258310448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: XD < 1258310470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the makefile snippet lets you install to different dirs too < 1258310470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least ick_findandfreopen() just calls ick_findandtestopen() plus does some extra stuff < 1258310474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make install GOBIN=... < 1258310479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cross-compiling is easy: < 1258310481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see why the first one couldn't do that too < 1258310483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make GOARCH=amd < 1258310484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258310485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make GOARCH=arm < 1258310508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will that work under MPW? < 1258310517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh. i think it requires gmake :P < 1258310524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, libraries (packages) are put in $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH < 1258310527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn < 1258310533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have a cross-compilation environment without different trees < 1258310536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very well thought-out < 1258310559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it does static libraries! package foo is just $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH/foo.a) < 1258310573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, {GOROOT}pkg:{GOOS}_{GOARCH} you mean (missing : in front of pkg intentional, GOROOT is assumed to end with : < 1258310574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you don't need to explicitly link it, just import it in the source file and it leaves a note for the linker) < 1258310575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(always) < 1258310578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hyuk hyuk < 1258310587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258310600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one ugly thing about $GOROOT/pkg < 1258310601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls $GOROOT/pkg < 1258310601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darwin_amd64 ~place-holder~ < 1258310604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg is shit and doesn't track empty dirs :P < 1258310610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258310625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, reminds me of cvs < 1258310633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, darcs does it too iirc < 1258310651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually do < 1258310652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone -r release https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ $GOROOT < 1258310656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to install go < 1258310657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258310660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do a make too < 1258310671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, you actually get it from hg straight into the tree :P < 1258310696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eh, darcs does it too iirc <-- does what? not tracking empty dirs? < 1258310697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1258310699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does take up a few environment variables, but it's a small price to pay to have a convenient, well-organised, easily-managable development tree that can cross-compile and works everywhere < 1258310703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and it's "uh huh" < 1258310704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break my build script < 1258310714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no "uh uh" as in "oops" < 1258310715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh sounds like that's the way, uh uh uh uh, I like it, uh uh uh uh < 1258310724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah :P < 1258310738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complexity_of_Songs < 1258310740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth! < 1258310742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think classic mac os had that as one of the "beeps" you could select < 1258310763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_0 = e, S_k = V_k S_(k-1), k >= 1, < 1258310771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V_k = 'That's the way,' U 'I like it,' U, for all k > 0 < 1258310775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U = 'uh huh, uh huh' < 1258310844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that wikipedia link... what is that "(priority disputed)" there < 1258310850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some wikipedia thing about the reference? < 1258310861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surer. < 1258310865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a Wikipedia thing, I think. < 1258310867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure < 1258310874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually ^{[...]} < 1258310899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not surer. <- surer than? < 1258310904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258310915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surise < 1258310928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be exact, here's how you install go: < 1258310951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready steady go! < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOROOT=~/go < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOBIN=~/bin < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOARCH=386 < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOOS=linux < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOMAXPROCS=2 < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone -r release https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ $GOROOT < 1258310988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cd $GOROOT/src < 1258310990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./all.bash < 1258311006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, AnMaster, I know you'd use GOROOT=~/local/go, GOBIN=~/local/bin and GOARCH=amd64 :P) < 1258311028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GOMAXPROCS is how many cpus/cores you have unless you want to limit go further than that, no real reason to though) < 1258311040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it defaults to 1, so concurrent programs won't be very good unless you set it) < 1258311058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GOBIN also defaults to ~/bin but really, it's simpler just to set them all, especially as you can view them with env | grep ^GO) < 1258311062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how large is the go installation? < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -sh go < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :242M go < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amd64/darwin < 1258311102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no extra packages or whatever installed < 1258311105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, larger than MPW. < 1258311108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rather huge < 1258311113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would have expected 100 MB at most < 1258311114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that includes all the tools (apart from the debugger-in-construction) < 1258311116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the documentation < 1258311119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the stdlib (as .as) < 1258311139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's codereview scripts < 1258311147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib9, libio and libmach < 1258311149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, static analyser? < 1258311151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as .as) < 1258311157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what those codereview scripts are? < 1258311165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ffi with some premade bindings < 1258311169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs, vim and xcode support files < 1258311181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, a ton of tests < 1258311189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the test binaries are removed at the end though, Ithink < 1258311192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I think < 1258311198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's not that big < 1258311199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still, bulky to say the least < 1258311204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1258311207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's batteries-included < 1258311211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of useful stuff < 1258311228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including an indent(1) equivalent but with defaults that everyone uses, < 1258311242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a documentation generator that uses the web server in the stdlib and runs http://golang.org/ < 1258311257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linker, a plan9 c compiler, a go compiler < 1258311264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a plan9 assembler < 1258311268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ffi tool < 1258311272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a yacc port < 1258311273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258311285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codereview is for their code review site, where people review changes before merging them into the main line < 1258311295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and the test runner tool) < 1258311360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258311362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258311373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, static code analysis would have been cooler < 1258311376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you sort du -h output? < 1258311384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah :P < 1258311407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, any amd64 machine will have a disk you can throw 220 MiB at and not notice anything < 1258311423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could do du | sort -n then some magic to get the file names and then pass those as arguments in the right order to du? < 1258311437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my linux distro, with 32-bit and the tiny libc, will probably be more like slightly below 100 MiB < 1258311439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could write a script to sort on K, M, G and such < 1258311501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, couldn't you fit a stripped down go into that? < 1258311517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my /usr/include on ubuntu is 103 MB < 1258311520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1258311520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what does du display in < 1258311522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes right? < 1258311532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 512-bit blocks < 1258311532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258311536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, du -b is bytes < 1258311538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exact < 1258311538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stripping down is pointless, there's no real support for anything but the full thing < 1258311539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, < 1258311545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fine, tbh < 1258311546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without -b it rounds to whole disk blocks < 1258311547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeps it simple < 1258311554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :providing the build system as two makefiles is great too < 1258311562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a 1 byte file is still one 512 bit block < 1258311565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258311567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that all the questions of what build system to use, where to install libraries to etc. is solved < 1258311568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512-byte < 1258311570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bit < 1258311573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think < 1258311583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see man page. I'm not 100% sure. I know it is messy < 1258311584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as the fact that it does static libraries for you) < 1258311592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is like, a vehicle for all the plan 9 type things < 1258311598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sneak them in to everyone's mindset :P < 1258311608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: stripping down is pointless, there's no real support for anything but the full thing <-- embedded targets? < 1258311616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, develop in one place and run in another < 1258311618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the resulting binaries are quite small < 1258311624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static linking, remember < 1258311627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258311627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only links in the stuff it uses < 1258311636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258311645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all make install does with programs is copy the one binary to $GOBIN :P < 1258311653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc you could add to that if you need data files) < 1258311689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so `make GOARCH=arm GOBIN=~/androidthing/bin install` should work fine and produce a quite small binary < 1258311692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I keep reading it as "goo" mentally < 1258311692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258311696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good start < 1258311697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so `make GOARCH=arm GOOS=linux GOBIN=~/androidthing/bin install` should work fine and produce a quite small binary < 1258311700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258311702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're on os x :P < 1258311705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258311706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOS is clearly plural of foo < 1258311707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goo* < 1258311709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or GOOS=darwin < 1258311711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258311712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they get the iphone stuff working < 1258311714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gooy! < 1258311720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GOOS is an unfortunate name, yes :P < 1258311729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no du -b here on bsd :P < 1258311731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they never thought of GO_OS? < 1258311738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -b is GNU iirc < 1258311738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why be inconsistent with the other names < 1258311742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who cares if it's GOOS < 1258311745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah you are stuck with 512-byte blocks < 1258311751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :au connotraire < 1258311752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they could all use _ < 1258311759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -m Display block counts in 1048576-byte (1-Mbyte) blocks. < 1258311761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly what I wanted < 1258311764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1258311767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would work too < 1258311769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not standard < 1258311772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a problem that GOOS looks like the plural of goo? < 1258311773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258311775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1258311782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it has a real effecct < 1258311784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect < 1258311790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for setting them to cross-compile etc :P < 1258311815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much of go is written in go? < 1258311817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"du -k" for kilobytes seems quite widespread. < 1258311826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whole stdlib < 1258311828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the compiler < 1258311832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and standard too < 1258311834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike -m < 1258311837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the whole of the stdlib, I guess, some is probably in C < 1258311844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the main stdlib, at least < 1258311872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk '{print shift"M", $0}' puts "M " before the shifted thing o_O < 1258311884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'{print shift,"M", $0}' too < 1258311904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you call external code? Lets say you want to call function in a *.so (because you need to integrate with that app) < 1258311905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258311909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgo < 1258311914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c ffi < 1258311923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can it load dynamically linked libraries? < 1258311929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses gcc. < 1258311931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cgo < 1258311941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's support for that for packages only (commands should make a wrapper lib) in the make system < 1258311943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't the same though < 1258311948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define CGOFILES=fileusingcgo.go < 1258311955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it is, you can pass arguments to the cgo compiler < 1258311956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's support for that for packages only (commands should make a wrapper lib) in the make system <-- ? < 1258311959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CGO_CFLAGS or something < 1258311968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: making it run cgo for you < 1258311975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it compiles to C code? < 1258311986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what are you saying < 1258312005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles to two files of go code (your source code using cgo morphed slightly and an internal file) and two files of C code (one for gcc, one for the plan9 c compiler) < 1258312019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258312023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass arguments to the c compiler(s, not sure, prolly just gcc) < 1258312027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it generates C glue? < 1258312030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the 9 c compiler is without much options < 1258312031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1258312043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the go files it's very simple < 1258312045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ #include < 1258312047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258312049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// #include < 1258312051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// #include "bar" < 1258312053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import "C" < 1258312056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do C.func(...) < 1258312061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258312070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I imagine the 9 c compiler would have at least "optimise" "debug info" and "output to file instead of default"? < 1258312078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has problems with opaque structs atm (as in, you can't use them) so wrapping xlib requires some ugliness (casting pointers to longs) < 1258312086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those will be fixed, presumably < 1258312088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and probably "add this to the include path" < 1258312112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c < 1258312139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my 9c from plan9 from userspace calls gcc!? < 1258312143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258312145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shell script that calls gcc < 1258312145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258312146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a wrapper < 1258312149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1258312156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so other programs can use it < 1258312159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a compatible interface < 1258312170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, most of the options are useless on cgo's go ffile < 1258312191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you'd need is linking libraries (I think cgo handles that) < 1258312196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include files are done by gcc, I believe < 1258312198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1258312202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it links with gcc for that part < 1258312217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the options are useless on the plan9 c code, I'd say < 1258312224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimisation is default. < 1258312237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incidentally, see vc in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c? < 1258312247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9 has cpu emulators, 8i emulates an x86 for instance < 1258312251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the mips emulator is... < 1258312251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi < 1258312256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what license is Go user? < 1258312257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under* < 1258312269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD < 1258312279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258312279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c? <-- hm that ? made it error out. < 1258312280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd-style < 1258312287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually a ? at the end makes no difference < 1258312292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, it's BSD < 1258312296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the don't-use-Google's-name-to-endorse < 1258312298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 3BSD < 1258312305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty boring stuff < 1258312315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just MIT + don't-use-our-name-to-endorse-your-product < 1258312325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the latter is handled by most countries laws anyway i'd wager < 1258312328 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258312351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the plan9 man page for emacs has see also vi(1) < 1258312360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which points to the page about the cpu emulators :D < 1258312370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bug < 1258312378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the man page? < 1258312381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a joke < 1258312381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does plan9 have vim? < 1258312382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/emacs < 1258312384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1258312391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite man page ever, btw < 1258312397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BUGS < 1258312397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1258312404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one ported emacs to plan9? < 1258312413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably is a port, but using it would be a mortal sin. < 1258312424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also a gcc support. using that is also a mortal sin.) < 1258312426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS < 1258312426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1258312427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gcc port < 1258312429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258312431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, I copied that too :P < 1258312440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good. I'm already deep in it. what with this port of ick to mac os < 1258312443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy reading the page :P < 1258312448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe you could port ick to plan9? :D < 1258312448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there is no 8i < 1258312449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1258312454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that has been done already < 1258312455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mips, arm, sparc, powerpc < 1258312461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess emulating x86 is too crazy for them < 1258312464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, maybe < 1258312476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9 c is quite a different beast to regular c, though < 1258312479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe as in "been done" or "maybe I should do it"? < 1258312482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they diverged before ISO C, I think < 1258312492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch so it isn't C89 even? < 1258312497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would hurt < 1258312499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's quite similar to C89 < 1258312508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are the differences then? < 1258312512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it's probably post-C89 < 1258312517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1258312525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should just be a new build system I expect < 1258312525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e.g. you can have a union in a struct without giving its field a name and it's addressable as theStruct->unionElement < 1258312529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with a struct I believe < 1258312541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do "subtyping" like struct foo { struct bar; ... } < 1258312544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gcc has that as an extension iirc < 1258312548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is used as the subtyping mechanism in go to great effect) < 1258312548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something very similar < 1258312551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the union thing < 1258312554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I think all structs are typedeffed, so to speak < 1258312560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. struct foo {} makes the type foo < 1258312564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ does this :P < 1258312570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean automatic typedef? < 1258312571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1258312575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break things < 1258312576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine in plan 9 < 1258312586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you use a -strict-ansi or something? < 1258312591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter, almost all posix-style c programs break on plan 9 < 1258312594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. port it or use gcc < 1258312594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this MPW compiler has that < 1258312610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need APE (posix compatibility layer) for most programs anyway < 1258312614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because plan 9 libc is not posix < 1258312623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say POSIX < 1258312624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in just about every way < 1258312631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said ANSI C < 1258312636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ick is happy with ANSI C < 1258312638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1258312647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the parts where it isn't are either optional or bugs < 1258312647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but what kind of c program exercises details of the ansi c standard without stepping outside a subset of standard libc?! < 1258312660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. Ick tries to < 1258312660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258312675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, plan 9 c is a marked improvement over regular c < 1258312675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to have fallbacks) < 1258312716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, plan 9 c also eliminates the regular preprocessor < 1258312722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only does #define, #include, #undef, #ifdef, #line and #ifndef < 1258312727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do -p to get an ansi preprocessor < 1258312736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has #pragma but that's in the compiler) < 1258312738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you know more kids will be shown to have left-handedness this year than AiDS, diabetes, and cancer, combined?" < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A structure value can be formed with an expression such as < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(struct S){v1, v2, v3} < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where the list elements are values for the fields of struct S. < 1258312747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258312748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Some features of C99, the 1999 ANSI C standard, are imple- < 1258312750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mented. ]] < 1258312750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 that one < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Structure initializers can specify the structure element < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : by using the name following a period, as < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y 1, .x 5 }; < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which initializes elements y and then x of the structure < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s. These forms also accept the new ANSI C notation, which < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : includes an equal sign: < 1258312770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a full implementation of C99 to date anyway. < 1258312770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int a[] = { [3] = 1, [10] = 5 }; < 1258312773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y = 1, .x = 5 }; < 1258312774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so far it seems MPW implements exactly one extension: long long < 1258312785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also in C99 I mean < 1258312788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there are mac specific ones < 1258312795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure,* < 1258312816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y 1, .x 5 }; <-- C99 too < 1258312843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact: the plan 9 c compiler (fun fact: valid as both (the (plan 9 c) compiler) and (the plan 9 (compiler)) has no -l < 1258312845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh? < 1258312856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GCC is one of the closest, but it has missing features. < 1258312857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -l? < 1258312858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not Comeau? < 1258312873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-l as in lowercase L < 1258312875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do `8c foo.c /lib/libfoo.a` < 1258312876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/lib and /bin are actually a union) < 1258312882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like MrC on mac then. no -l there either < 1258312891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was Comeau just the one that did exported templates < 1258312892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of, I think, /(arch)/lib and $home/(arch)/lib) < 1258312899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /386/lib < 1258312903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice < 1258312903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 doesn't just support cross-compilation < 1258312904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cross-systeem! < 1258312906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system! < 1258312914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not complete to my knowledge, but I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of all C compilers ;) < 1258312920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably make a polyarchitecture plan 9 system < 1258312922 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse what wikipedia says ... < 1258312926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's mainly for the cluster stuff < 1258312931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use the same fs < 1258312935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on different-arch machines < 1258312961 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to Sun Microsystems, Sun Studio (which is downloadable without charge) now supports the full C99 standard." < 1258312995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's true at all, then that's the only one (according to Wikipedia) < 1258313003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, that was the one < 1258313168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm looking through the biggest files/dirs in go out of curiosity < 1258313193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find . -exec du {} + | sort -n ? < 1258313199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all but 59 MiB is in $GOROOT/src < 1258313200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258313203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -m go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e < 1258313206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$ du -m go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e < 1258313211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trailing space :P) < 1258313220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -type f -exec du {} + | sort -n < 1258313223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1258313224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think $GOROOT/src includes object files too, though < 1258313227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type f? < 1258313230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -rn might be better < 1258313234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "files and not dirs" < 1258313238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said files and dirs < 1258313241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggest files and dirs < 1258313248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that wouldn't be dir size < 1258313248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that i wouldn't have been able to tell you that $GOROOT/src has most stuff < 1258313252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need du -s then < 1258313262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? Why? < 1258313266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because du just will give you how many blocks the directory structure takes... < 1258313268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :184M go/src < 1258313268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163M go/src/pkg < 1258313269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26M go/src/pkg/exp < 1258313272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt that. < 1258313294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, `du -m -I.hg go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e` actually < 1258313299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait, it just seems to print recrusively < 1258313304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have mixed it up < 1258313315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M go/pkg/darwin_amd64 < 1258313323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the stdlib static libraries are 20 MiBb < 1258313324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good < 1258313327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MiB < 1258313329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -I+ < 1258313332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1258313338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore matching < 1258313349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, bsd extension < 1258313372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, $GOROOT/src includes object files, the test object file, and the resulting binary < 1258313400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1x will probably be out before GCC gets their full C99 compliance done. (Incidentally, recent C1x standardization committee meeting removed gets from the draft. They could always still add it back, though, but most likely it's gone now.) < 1258313415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring all them produces: < 1258313416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67M go < 1258313422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31M go/src < 1258313422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M go/pkg/darwin_amd64 < 1258313423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiBb; a mebi-bit-byte. < 1258313442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4M go/src/pkg/exp < 1258313442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest "end" src directory. < 1258313456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait < 1258313458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an end < 1258313461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp/ogle is though < 1258313469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1258313471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has .6s < 1258313483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the binary is called ogle, making it hard to ignore < 1258313512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63M go without .6s < 1258313520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258313526 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258313536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically all of the bulk is the leftover .6s and binaries < 1258313555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if there's a reason to keep them < 1258313561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, yeah: making updates quicker) < 1258313568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only rebuilding the packages that are changed) < 1258313576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that'll be why. < 1258313577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1258313584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "ogle"? < 1258313585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1258313591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that binary do < 1258313592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogle is the debugger in process. < 1258313593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define ogle < 1258313595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* look at with amorous intentions \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * The Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment or OGLE is a Polish astronomical project based at Warsaw University that is chiefly concerned with ... < 1258313596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*progress < 1258313602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And [Go]ogle < 1258313610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know what ogle as a word means < 1258313616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258313617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ogling the program. :P < 1258313622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Go is the language, ogle is the rest. < 1258313623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Google. < 1258313625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds dirty < 1258313633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it does. < 1258313650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debugger are pretty dirty business. < 1258313670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know. There are jokes about google meaning "go ogle" < 1258313670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1258313670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will be fun to search for information on the debugger if "go ogle" returns jokes like that < 1258313676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although "go" by itself is more of an issue < 1258313679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(protip: "Go language") < 1258313694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http://go-lang.cat-v.org/go-search < 1258313704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they should have opted for a non-existing word < 1258313714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is the people that brought you "C" < 1258313723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think they care about the accessibility of their name? < 1258313731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They care about conciseness and, in this case, puns. < 1258313732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google didn't exist back then so they at least had an excuse < 1258313741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C wasn't googlable back then < 1258313767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google typofix heuristics seem to cause it to return pretty much the same things for (unquoted) "go ogle" and "google". (Of course you can fix it by adding some quotes or +s.) < 1258313785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or http://go-lang.cat-v.org/go-search <-- is the search box in the page footer!? < 1258313791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ken Thompson is 66! He has the most gnarly beard ever! He invented Unix and B and UTF-8 and ed and "Along with Joseph Condon, he created the hardware and software for Belle, a world champion chess computer", and worked on Plan 9! < 1258313791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries another browser
< 1258313796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can do whatever the fuck he wants! < 1258313797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Enable JS < 1258313804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the TOCs on golang.org require JS too) < 1258313813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. :P < 1258313824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your loss. < 1258313843 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258313892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" He can do whatever the fuck he wants!" <-- even written reiserfs? < 1258313898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258313905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammar fail, making your joke incomprehensible. < 1258313909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even write or even wrote? < 1258313922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "could have" < 1258313928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258313931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1258313983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it isn't incomprehensible just because the grammar is slightly off I think. < 1258313990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confused. < 1258313990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258313997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who has the language called "Go!" (with an exclamation mark) and published a book about it called "Lets Go!" (apparently adding an apostrophe to the title of that book was just too much work) amuses me. He didn't even "publish" the book, he self-published it on Lulu, which requires no humans. He did publish a research paper, however, but he doesn't even have a trademark on the name and he wouldn't get one, because Go is a fucking two-letter English wo < 1258313997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredibly common! You can't own it... < 1258314001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, clog stopped logging < 1258314010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1258314019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*English word < 1258314019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1258314020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you give clog a line that's the max length < 1258314024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it logs one line behind < 1258314035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who has the language called "Go!" (with an exclamation mark) and published a book about it called "Lets Go!" (apparently adding an apostrophe to the title of that book was just too much work) amuses me. He didn't even "publish" the book, he self-published it on Lulu, which requires no humans. He did publish a research paper, however, but he doesn't even have a trademark on the name and he wouldn't get one, because Go is a fucking two-letter English wo < 1258314035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredibly common! You can't own it... < 1258314039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if it's two lines behind < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1258314122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, three < 1258314123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258314124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who owns clog? < 1258314134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what has "Go!" got to do with this? < 1258314134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where is that quote from? < 1258314134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nobody maintains it, François-René Rideau (fare) runs the server < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author doesn't control it any more < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not a quote < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wrote it < 1258314138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and Go! is complaining to the Go authors < 1258314140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going "RABBLE RABBLE CHANGE THE NAME I OWN THE WORD 'GO' ALSO THE EXCLAMATION MARK IS IRRELEVANT" < 1258314154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9 ;; click and see tons of people who know fuck all about the language and saw it on techcrunch whining < 1258314171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suggesting names, often with a "I give you permission to use this" as if google will actually consider it < 1258314202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[google should change the name ... i think its enough of google employee arrogance, < 1258314202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they think they are GOD's .. please come down to earth , you are humans.]] < 1258314211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :au contraire, I'm fairly sure Ken Thompson is a god < 1258314257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suggested name there ("Issue 9") isn't too shabby either, though. < 1258314267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1258314272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda lame to name it that now, after the bug report. < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I appreciate mc cabe for rising up to defend what is definitely his ... we are with < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mc cabe, well done, go ahead .. may the force be with you.]] < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Wars Episode VII: The Empire's Naming < 1258314307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Emperor's New Name.) < 1258314314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's Fnord) < 1258314324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258314373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that "Go!", is it any good? < 1258314401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the guy whines so much and the only material is a self-published book that needs an apostrophe in the title and a research paper... < 1258314403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably crap < 1258314411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, putting a ! in your name makes you as bad as Yahoo!.) < 1258314421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the apostrophe isn't a sign of it being bad < 1258314424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your name == name for thing you created) < 1258314425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask augur < 1258314425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Lets Go" < 1258314429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258314430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick Sgeo! < 1258314435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur uses punctuation and capitalisation on his blog < 1258314451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway " (also, putting a ! in your name makes you as bad as Yahoo!.)" <-- counterproof: "Soundblaster Live!" was very good < 1258314461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, if it was "lets go" with some subdued typographical styling I could live with it < 1258314480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's http://static.lulu.com/items/volume_44/641000/641689/4/preview/320_641689.jpg?641689-0 < 1258314488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's clearly an error < 1258314488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well is Soundblaster Live! as bad as Yahoo! then? < 1258314491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or no < 1258314496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who have an error in such large print on a book title... < 1258314499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots < 1258314505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it makes their creators as bad as Yahoo! < 1258314508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for naming it so idiotically < 1258314522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone calls it SBLive, anyway < 1258314548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe < 1258314604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# MPW has an integrated scripting system you can use to perform operations of arbitrary complexity." <-- yes, like it being impossible to write any control code like \a or such with it. just a few are supported < 1258314622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact in the MPW version you have ehird, even a LF can't be written in it < 1258314623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely hopes that nothing bad will come out of using something intended for Python 2.4
< 1258314626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CR yes but a LF no < 1258314638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make a tool to do it < 1258314646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FancyPrint "\a" < 1258314669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does that help when I want to do the equiv of tr '\n' '\r' < 1258314670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258314678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is Translate < 1258314680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have $() < 1258314700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy Translate "\n" "\r" < 1258314700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, something like it. < 1258314706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err that won't work < 1258314709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy fancies every argument, then runs it. < 1258314714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tools can't call each other < 1258314718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I mentioned several times < 1258314729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then, what's the $()-like syntax? < 1258314746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with "" around I think < 1258314767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate "$(F \n)" "$(F \r)" < 1258314769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still the newer MPW syntax works fine, other people can just upgrade to the version from Jan 2000 or later < 1258314780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 6 users can't < 1258314780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't read what I just said? < 1258314790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "" around I think, you said < 1258314792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$()-like syntax < 1258314811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sucks to be them because you will need to patch various stuff due to missing long long anyway < 1258314819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SC lacks support for long long < 1258314821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MrC handles it < 1258314824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do long long in System 6, anyway < 1258314836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can address 8 MiB of memory and that's that, and I think int is 16-bit < 1258314840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end < 1258314853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please reboot your brain right now < 1258314861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1258314879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do a 64 bit integer. I didn't say you would use it as a pointer... < 1258314881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 MiB = 23-bit addresses < 1258314885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 24-bit address bus < 1258314885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do 128 bit arithmetics just finme < 1258314887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine* < 1258314895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again, who said anything about pointers? < 1258314906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just working it out < 1258314908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing 128-bit arithmetic with 16-bit intst? < 1258314910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ints < 1258314911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you crazy? < 1258314915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's juggling 8 values < 1258314916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so slow... < 1258314918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would take multiple operations yes < 1258314922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite possible < 1258314924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it need 64-bit? < 1258314953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird in a few places < 1258314970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuk (the debugger) once in cesspool.c and once in perpet.c < 1258314983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue what exactly it uses them for < 1258314985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just gripped < 1258315001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just s/long long/long/ and Don't Worry, Be Happy < 1258315024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder how this PS/2→USB adapter handles sleeps and wakes < 1258315028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work fine < 1258315033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oops, wrong. yuk needs it for timestamp it seems < 1258315047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timestamp in what format? < 1258315058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown I just grepped with -C 2 < 1258315062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go read the source yourself < 1258315086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1258315102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c- fprintf(of,"\";\n\nint ick_iffi_markercount=%d;\n" < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c: "long long ick_iffi_markerposns[][2]={\n",markercount); < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c- if(!markercount) fprintf(of,"{0,0}\n"); < 1258315113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what that does < 1258315117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68k is a sort of 32-bit processor anyway; the external bus is 16 bits wide, but the registers have 32 bits. It shouldn't be *that* slow. At least if you just do some additions and such. < 1258315142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many GP registers? < 1258315163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's 323-bit? < 1258315164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*32 < 1258315170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the system 6 finder is 16-bit < 1258315176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that 32-bit finder broke stuff < 1258315189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um not exactly. I think it has more than 16 bits memory < 1258315195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1258315200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory adressing* < 1258315210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't 16-bit in any sense of the word < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Furthermore, they either have to convert back to zero-terminated strings < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when passing them to libs, or use the trick of appending ("quand m�me") a < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero byte, which is redundant wrt to the array lenght.]] — on Go < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little does this wabbit realise they just do their own IO stuff! < 1258315223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with libc :P < 1258315242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_memory_management#32-bit_clean < 1258315266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For that I had to check some references; eight 32-bit general-purpose registers (D0 .. D7) and eight 32-bit address registers (A0 .. A7). < 1258315276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically "quite a mess" < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[All this is more than just nit-picking. Pike claims a 10-20% loss compared < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to C, which would still be quite good. However, the first benchmarks tell < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another story at the moment:]] < 1258315288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mac os memory management up until OS X was < 1258315289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258315307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc having the slow gc atm, the shootout programs being naive and non-concurrent (and GOMAXPROCS not being set anyway)... < 1258315309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : when passing them to libs, or use the trick of appending ("quand m�me") a <-- what is that question mark? < 1258315319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: some byte that was wrongly encoded for me < 1258315323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258315324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows up as that too for me < 1258315337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I wish people would stop talking about the shootout < 1258315345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shootout? < 1258315352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language benchmarks game < 1258315356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shootout.alioth.debian.org < 1258315376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: For that I had to check some references; eight 32-bit general-purpose registers (D0 .. D7) and eight 32-bit address registers (A0 .. A7). <-- should be enough to do 128 bit arithmetics in registers most of the time < 1258315377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1258315381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are contrived for non-scientific work (and are benchmarks), it's biased against non-C like languages (they admit this) and the programs submitted vary wildly from hyper-optimised unreadable crazy shit and ultra-naive < 1258315417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least if you can do it in place (plus a few scratch) or don't need any scratch registers (but can't do it in place) < 1258315436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://repo.cat-v.org/goblin/ may end up being my coreutils < 1258315445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how fast they are, I guess < 1258315484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why go for them < 1258315490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why Go for them" < 1258315499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been clearer < 1258315503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uriel loves go < 1258315525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least "C" doesn't introduce ambig. when written < 1258315530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only when spoken) < 1258315532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1258315532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does Go < 1258315533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who* < 1258315547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but I usually write most stuff in lower case < 1258315556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uriel is a major plan 9 community guy. his political opinions are... crazy, but he's a good coder < 1258315556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irc I mena < 1258315558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrote werc) < 1258315558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean* < 1258315571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh the cat-v site owner? < 1258315576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258315579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have meant a lot more < 1258315593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasons to use them: 1. uriel is a plan 9 weenie, he'll produce minimalist utilities 2. he knows more about go than most others, so the code should be high-quality 3. i like go 4. they will be very liberally licensed (public domain or ISC/MIT is his usual license) < 1258315596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, goblin has been around for a few days at most? < 1258315601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258315604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said "may end up being" < 1258315608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how complete is it so far? < 1258315610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Go doesn't produce ambiguity when written < 1258315611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go does < 1258315615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write it that way, that's your fault :P < 1258315618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably no to little code < 1258315634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the project has attributes that imply to me that it'll be a good choice < 1258315640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I should make a language called liTtLe < 1258315643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can always start with another coreutils and switch < 1258315643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258315651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1258315654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a longer word < 1258315658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but common one < 1258315659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258315681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uriel *really* loves go; he's said that there's no reason to write user-space C code any more) < 1258315697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is on-the-fence about kernel code until someone makes a kernel in go (presumably after the new gc is added)) < 1258315721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you still need to write some Go to write the GC in. Unless you want to write a whole GC in asm < 1258315724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do it in C < 1258315726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is cheating < 1258315730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1258315743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C isn't really cheating tbh) < 1258315764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they don't have plans to rewrite gc in Go, although with gccgo bootstrapping wouldn't be an issue nowadays) < 1258315772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well in this context... "no reason to write user-space C code" would imply the GC has no reason to be written in C < 1258315773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the stdlib includes a complete lexer and parser of go, though) < 1258315779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: user-space? < 1258315784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that too < 1258315785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he said write < 1258315788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same applies to kernel space < 1258315790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course go itself is an exception < 1258315793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pulling at straws < 1258315804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C is usually written in C though < 1258315808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you love edge cases, but could you pick less obnoxious ones? < 1258315810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't see why Go can't be written in Go < 1258315834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, go does subtypes without inheritance very ewll < 1258315835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1258315839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it basically makes composition convenient) < 1258315849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is thank god. < 1258315857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? Example? < 1258315869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by composition I mean the unnamed fields becoming part of it < 1258315885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can do aThingThatHasAnUnnamedFoo.MethodOnFoo()) < 1258315886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so you avoid foo->bar->quux but do foo->quux? < 1258315890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one thing that isn't obvious is that go structs can have both private and public members < 1258315900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well GCC does that as an extension < 1258315901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Though it has some silly quirks. (For example, there's no "add with carry" instruction; instead, there's "add extended", which computes destination+source+[X bit from flags register]; X is mostly set to same as C, except it's not touched by all instructions.) < 1258315909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be compatible with MSVC iirc? < 1258315909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but without methods it's useless for this < 1258315915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Private members start with a capital letter, public members a lower < 1258315933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do aStruct.foo but not aStruct.Foo (unless the struct type is in this package, ofc) < 1258315955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you compose a struct into another struct you can't access its private fields ofc < 1258315960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is one of the main evils of inheritance) < 1258315968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm so you couldn't add two 128 bit ints then in registers? < 1258315973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to needing that X bit register < 1258315984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, ok, technically you can't access private inherited members, but most inheritance-using code ends up using things not in the main interface) < 1258315996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, most arches seems to have a carry flag in some specific flags register < 1258316006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with go subtyping is just a convenient way to add stuff < 1258316016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could do without subtyping, just more awkwardly < 1258316052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure you can. X is just another bit in the flags register, just like C. It's just quirky to have two different "carry" flags, with some instructions setting both, and some setting only one of them (C). < 1258316084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh now I see what you meant < 1258316089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders using a VCS as a package manager
< 1258316098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, updating = pulling from each package repository < 1258316125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, directly to file system? interesting < 1258316137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a local branch for config file changes or such I guess < 1258316139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also means you can downgrade packages if you need to :P < 1258316152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most sane package manager allows that < 1258316157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean it comes free < 1258316179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll consider it; if it means my "package manager" is just a few helpers to call the VCS and some VCS config files, I'll go for it < 1258316180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, portage has very good support for installing different versions < 1258316202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it'll require a lot of work... ehh, I'll just write my own pkg manager < 1258316218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, writing your own also requires a lot of work < 1258316223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1258316228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he could wrap his mind around Cython
< 1258316230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i have to do a lot of work to make it fit, I'll just write my own < 1258316243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it means that you could install something like dwm with source-based configuration and merge your config changes < 1258316250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the package manager special-casing it < 1258316262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw did you look closely at the image on that goblin page? < 1258316278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's postincrement and predecrement addressing modes for any of the eight address registers, that's pretty nice. Considering x86's complexity level, there's really very limited facilities for automatically manipulating addresses. ("push" and "pop", but they can only use esp/rsp as the address; and the stos/lods/movs string instructions, but they are always post-decrement/post-increment based on the direction flag, never pre-anything.) < 1258316281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1258316286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking now. < 1258316303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems disturbing. check the file name too < 1258316312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty silly, yes. < 1258316318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it looks like the goblin will explode him/her self? < 1258316324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? :P < 1258316333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. "disturbing" < 1258316337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the Goblin tools represent their crashiness. < 1258316347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. < 1258316379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that increment/decrement thing? < 1258316379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258316382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Ken Thompson actively posts on the Go mailing list. < 1258316399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean like reading at that address will automatically increment the address afterwards < 1258316404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just read it again < 1258316407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the next bit? < 1258316408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258316409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately it's a rather crappy list; most people going "lol i don't know shit (look at this benchmark|add this feature)" and some sane people replying "No, you're an idiot, fuck off") < 1258316410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte* < 1258316426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Duff's device! < 1258316438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean the usual; *(x++) -style addressing. < 1258316449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that related more than any other thing scanning over memory? < 1258316461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at it closely < 1258316466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be just as useful for strlen() < 1258316466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258316467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: do{ *to = *from++; < 1258316468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258316469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258316471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia changed it < 1258316472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258316482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1258316483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, changed it how? < 1258316483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/msg/66008138e07aa94c < 1258316486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear it was originally < 1258316489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to = *from; < 1258316492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was to memory mapped register < 1258316507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258316508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but i recall something about it being *to = *from; < 1258316509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally < 1258316516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that I know < 1258316643 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-141.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258316684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that link you gave shows it wasn't < 1258316692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but odd, no thread around it? < 1258316693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258316696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just pure strange < 1258316703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1984 < 1258316707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of old messages are like that < 1258316714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people replied sparingly, replies were long and civil < 1258316720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh where someone saved a few only? < 1258316725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1258316729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258316734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everyone had short signatures, quoted properly and at the bottom...) < 1258316738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(used bang-addresses... etc) < 1258316755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/topics < 1258316762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last messages before the big 8 < 1258316858 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258316861 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/topics?start=3206&sa=N <-- messages trough time :) < 1258316884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, ? < 1258316889 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost 30 year old messages < 1258316894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1258316948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not "almost 30"; those were written something like six months before I was born, and I am emphatically not "almost 30". < 1258316957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't plan9 has it's own language iirc? < 1258316973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how old are you? < 1258316981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too lazy to do the math
< 1258316990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 or something iirc < 1258316997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not "almost 30"! < 1258316998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I could understand that < 1258317009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 2009-1984 = 25 < 1258317015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I seem to recall him saying 26 or something < 1258317026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm wait < 1258317028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're from 1982 < 1258317033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure if it is 26 or 27 I can understand that. But when you turn 29 you are definitely almost 30 < 1258317037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha fizzie had a birthday and is now 27 i guess < 1258317045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUT UP 30 IS THE SAME AS "ALMOST MID-LIFE CRISIS" < 1258317049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, no. Add six months to those posting times. < 1258317051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is not almost almost mid-life crisis! :P < 1258317054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1258317055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 then < 1258317071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 30 doesn't *require* a mid-life cfrisis < 1258317074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crisis* < 1258317075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 does < 1258317077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 30 is almost 40 < 1258317078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I guess. It's a complicated calculation. Anyway, you have to round these things towards zero to get decades, anyway. < 1258317085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't worry, you're just almost 29.99999999999999999999999999999999999… < 1258317092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was an "anyway"-delimited message.) < 1258317118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the representation starts with 2... < 1258317136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2+28" is just fine, too. < 1258317159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the crisis around 18 when you just realise you are now grown up and that you most likely have less than 1/5 of your life left? (sure you can become 100 or older, but unlikely, unless things changes drastically) < 1258317166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258317168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18? seriously? < 1258317168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 4/5 < 1258317170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258317171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258317172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mostly have a crisis around 25 < 1258317175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quarter-life crisis < 1258317190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that assumes you will live 100 years < 1258317191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been having a continuous crisis since I fully realised what my mortality implies :) < 1258317198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to be quarter-life < 1258317204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shut up, it's just what the word meas < 1258317206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*means < 1258317231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i can do is have the faint hope of singularity, or maybe cryonics, who knows < 1258317236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. but yeah. I guess I only realised fully around 15 years old < 1258317259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew i was mortal and would die and would be nothing and all that shizz but at one point i just sat there and thought about nonexistence and have been freaking out since :P < 1258317262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what is the crisis of 30 all about? < 1258317267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no crisis of 30 < 1258317269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of 40 for that matter < 1258317273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking that 30 is close to 40 < 1258317275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258317277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258317283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the 40 one about? < 1258317290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tons of stuff < 1258317298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, mostly, it's "oh god, i'm 40, I've barely done anythhing" < 1258317300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything < 1258317305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can console yourself with the fact that, simply based on life expectancy and current age, your changes of getting to do a post-singularity mind-upload are better than mine. < 1258317306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah would make sense < 1258317316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/f/midlifecrisis.htm < 1258317321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis < 1258317325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep! < 1258317325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my 18-years old crisis was "ouch there is so much to do, I will never have time to do everything I want" < 1258317332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although cryonics makes it about equal < 1258317338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the chances are so low anyway :P < 1258317351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, my less-immediate crisis is "post-singularity, how can we avoid entropy?" < 1258317369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by reversing polarity < 1258317371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want infinite time so i can know things forever < 1258317382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet it would become boring < 1258317386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buying a motorcycle is a common 50-years-old thing to do around here, I hear. < 1258317395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it truly became so boring for so long, then I would commit suicide. < 1258317401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same in Sweden < 1258317401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it would < 1258317428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe instead of committing suicide, I'd first try turning myself off for a long time < 1258317436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post-mind-upload that should be easy) < 1258317440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see what's new afterwards < 1258317463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to be honest i just like consciousness so much < 1258317476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do now. < 1258317494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main beef with cryonics is that it's done after your death, but more importantly after your aging < 1258317503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, what if we get a Matrix or Terminator scenario instead? < 1258317509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to restore an 80-something year old to mid-20s intelligence? < 1258317517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure aging is reversible < 1258317521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dread passing my mid-20s < 1258317522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what if the climate changes make everything end up badly < 1258317534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1258317534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: matrix and terminator are films. friendly ai would solve it < 1258317549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and climate change will be mostly irrelevant as soon as we colonise other planets < 1258317554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's the point. What if we end up with an unfriendly AI instead < 1258317560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and totally irrelevant once we're all running on silicon) < 1258317568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we have to write the friendly AI first < 1258317574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an unfriendly AI is written, nothing we can do about it < 1258317579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if we are hit by a K/T boundary style meteorite? < 1258317586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colonise other planets first. < 1258317592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read The Metamorphesis of Prime Intellect
< 1258317596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if we didn't have time? < 1258317598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1258317600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I want to read that sometime < 1258317604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then we are fucked. < 1258317611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a good signularity is far from certain < 1258317634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will sign up for cryonics because it's cheap and it gives me a better chance of living longer < 1258317644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think aging is likely to be reversible, alas < 1258317648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could be overrun by a car way before it happens < 1258317654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I could be < 1258317665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing I can do except hope i'm not < 1258317669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, cryonics < 1258317679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if I smashed my brains out that'd be ... unlucky < 1258317683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryonics won't help if the car destroys.. yea < 1258317683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Or, you know, getting an even bigger car to run other cars over with. < 1258317689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't we need to, you know, invent cryonics before that? < 1258317691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I MIGHT JUST < 1258317696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We... have cryonics. < 1258317702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alcor.org/ < 1258317708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cryonics.org/ < 1258317711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two main organisations. < 1258317721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't revive people yet, but we're certainly freezing them. < 1258317724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vitrifying, actually) < 1258317728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have cryonics that preserves brain structure yet, do we? < 1258317729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wikipedia says "Currently, human cryopreservation is not reversible, which means that it is not currently possible to bring people out of cryopreservation alive." indeed < 1258317740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one knows if that will ever be possible < 1258317744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restoring them I mean < 1258317745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1258317755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, better than 0% possibility of ever being alive again < 1258317758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's quite cheap, and I place a near-infinite value on living past my "death" < 1258317763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, sure, but still < 1258317770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can freeze to death can't you? < 1258317775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even though the probability of being revived is not that high, tiny*near-infinite is > the price of cryonics < 1258317780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Vitrification is not freezing < 1258317791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Livers have been vitrified, thawed and implanted < 1258317792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Animal) < 1258317794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked < 1258317800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258317801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with a mouse brain or something, iirc < 1258317803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-death naturally < 1258317817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if cryoni...cised shortly after death, presumably the information won't be totally lost < 1258317831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a matter of thawing it out safely, quickly doing the repair needed, and basically making the signals fire again < 1258317832 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :facsimile < 1258317843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258317849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can imagine some year 2300 cryotechnician cursing out loud about how we stupid twenty-first century people used these absurdly primitive methods and how reviving us is such a pain in the ass, but how it still needs to be done thanks to some politics bullshit about not just turning power off to the damn things. < 1258317856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1258317866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be better if, before I die, it becomes legal to be cryopreserved before death < 1258317878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on my life expectancy I could get frozen at 80-something < 1258317885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I die of something < 1258317888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which increases my chances hugely < 1258317904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not too interested lumbering about with a brain that barely works anyway) < 1258317916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would probably go for the neuro option, and donate his organs
< 1258317934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcor doesn't offer neuropreservation (just store the head) iirc < 1258317954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the chance of cryonic revival happening before at least robotic bodies is low < 1258317955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that does lower the probability of being revived (what if it requires the body) < 1258317966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither does CI, the other place you linked to) < 1258317971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CI does neuropreservation < 1258317977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I have it the wrong way around < 1258317982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cryonics.org/prod.html < 1258317987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: What's the "neuro" option? And why don't you offer it?" < 1258317991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think perhaps the spine should be preserved too < 1258318002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as iirc you can develop reflexes in the spine < 1258318043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my long-term perfect scenario is being a post-singularity uploaded mind forever. < 1258318054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess pretty similar to The Culture, which I need to read sometime. < 1258318064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also similar to TMoPI < 1258318085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I don't really want is to merge with other brains < 1258318089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minds < 1258318100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fond of my individuality < 1258318108 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: why is your name what it is? < 1258318178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prime Intellect operates under Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics" < 1258318181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail < 1258318191 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of freezing myself, i'm going to melt myself into liquid. < 1258318209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258318247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i think one of the x-men can do that :P < 1258318280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can he live forever that way < 1258318292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that automatically fail? < 1258318296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the water dies at one point < 1258318307 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the three laws of robotics both constrict too much and also allow evil < 1258318377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1258318500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Culture culture is a pretty nice culture; I don't think I would mind living there. (Though if you canonically believe the The State of the Art novella, the Culture has already checked out Earth in 1977, and decided not to get involved. Because, you see, they need a bit of a control group to justify the morality of them getting involved elsewhere, which is a bit of a bummer from our viewpoint.) < 1258318530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ? < 1258318538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this "Culture culture"? < 1258318563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What ehird referred to; the universe of (some of) Iain M. Banks' books. < 1258318573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there < 1258318578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some ick issues < 1258318587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like it is looking for :lib:/syslib.i < 1258318590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Congrats on figuring out the premise of half of Asimov's robot stories. :P < 1258318596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lawls < 1258318602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not have a ICK_PATHSEP that can be \ / or : < 1258318611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that ick_fopenorwhatever function? < 1258318613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck at coding < 1258318614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frrlz < 1258318615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1258318629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to read the combination of "some lick issues; like it is looking for :lib:/syslib.i" as something like "I want to lick your eyeball". < 1258318637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when reading about it on wp one issue i had was that not suicidin' after some time is considered eccentric < 1258318656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and why are those ick_findand* so ugly? And why the huge code duplication between ick_findandtestopen and ick_findandfopen? < 1258318683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the alternative is to write a wrapper for fopen that gives it the same argument list as freopen, then pass around function pointers everywhere < 1258318685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read that as ick_finland
< 1258318689 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, further, the MPW equiv. of tr refuses to operate on syslib.3i and higher due to them not being text files < 1258318695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ICK_PATHSEP would be fine, though < 1258318713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I'm having trouble following the horrible function logic there < 1258318723 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258318724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I showed ehird it and he said he would just rewrite it from scratch < 1258318726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively simple, it just checks several possible locations for the file < 1258318738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that ugly due to C being truly awful at string handling < 1258318738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however to do that I need to know how the hell it is supposed to work < 1258318740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, ais523 < 1258318744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it repeats some code tons of times < 1258318747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hardcodes path separators < 1258318755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a jumble of code without empty lines < 1258318757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mark logical breaks < 1258318760 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-141.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the two functions are copypastes with somee changes < 1258318766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logical breaks *some < 1258318774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at programming forever :| < 1258318777 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisive issue? D: < 1258318795 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what are you talking about, fail? That's a textbook example of code reuse! < 1258318811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: it's the people on Gr* vs. everyone else < 1258318838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone can see. Here is the whole file: http://sprunge.us/CUSH?c < 1258318843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1258318847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mainly it's Gregor vs me because nobody else knows go yet < 1258318855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody else has about it, at least < 1258318859 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some stuff in it < 1258318866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've seen you in #go-nuts < 1258318873 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have seen you! :o < 1258318888 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, a 512-line IRC client that evaluates code sent to it over the internet < 1258318893 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Go code < 1258318903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see what happened there < 1258318914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two functions were a lot more different than that originally < 1258318917 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be running it in Arch Linux in VirtualBox, neither of which I've used before. but it seems to be going well. < 1258318921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but over the corse of refactoring, ended up mostly the same < 1258318922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that code is not good practise in any sense. And I have no idea where to start fixing it because I can't follow it. I could rewrite it, but I wouldn't know if I introduced new issues < 1258318929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of the opposite of what code duplicatoin normally does < 1258318954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omg that code is aging backwards! < 1258318970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to begin with it needs to know that you can't just throw in an extra ICK_PATHSEP anywhere. because foo// is safe but foo:: is not < 1258318974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because foo:: is foo/../ < 1258318985 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of looks like that code is not meant to be read < 1258318988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: why not use your host system? < 1258318999 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: paranoia < 1258319008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1258319015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called? put it in here < 1258319016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and in my tests argv0 was always relative current dir. unless it was run as an alias, in which case it was relative the alias < 1258319024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, alias being similar to a symlink, but not quote < 1258319026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite* < 1258319042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: argv[0] is the command used to run the program < 1258319047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's relative current dir if you write ../build/ick < 1258319051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is what I'm talking about < 1258319056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and absolute if you write /home/ais523/esoteric/intercal/latest/build/ick < 1258319062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'll also be using setrlimit in the main process, so the go-compiling subprocesses will have sbrk fail relatively early if they start, e.g., making a 1GB array < 1258319071 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-running, more importantly < 1258319073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258319076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be cool? < 1258319080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv0 could be either absolute or relative as a result < 1258319085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a mac path is absolute if and only if it 1) doesn't start with a : 2) contains at least one : < 1258319086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could dynamically load .(arch) files < 1258319094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 6c foo.c; blah foo.6 < 1258319098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it starts with a : it is relative, if it contains no : at all, it is relative < 1258319099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it basically dlopen()s foo.6 < 1258319100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think separate functions for Mac from UNIX/Windows might be needed < 1258319108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1258319110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what to do < 1258319112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rules for forming paths are substantially different < 1258319113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah < 1258319121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or you could just tell me exactly what it is supposed to do and let me rewrite it *clean* < 1258319121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the ../ stuff with things that calculate the actual path (you bum) < 1258319124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with well factored out code < 1258319126 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that might be interesting < 1258319128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replace / or \ with ICK_PATHSEP < 1258319134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1258319137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: yes, it'd abolish dynamic linking but keep dynamic loading < 1258319147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to handle / on *nix and \ on dos/windows < 1258319164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only : on mac < 1258319180 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somewhat selfish, personally.. don't care about non-386. But that would be neat. < 1258319193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I meant .8 too < 1258319194 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you not being in #hackiki is wrong. Please correct. < 1258319205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackiki is a tiny toy project, why does it need a channel < 1258319208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I have no clue what the function is supposed to do. As in, sure I could look in guesspath and current dir < 1258319211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: also, 6g is older and more robust than 8g < 1258319211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that all it does? < 1258319212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: so nyah < 1258319214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something more? < 1258319220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: (6=64-bit) < 1258319225 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. sowat < 1258319231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your computer old or sth? admittedly my distro will be i686 < 1258319251 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, dynamic loading is sort of against the design goals of the language, I thoght < 1258319268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: for normal use, yes < 1258319271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it'd be a fun hack :P < 1258319283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it looks in several dirs for a file < 1258319292 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, my CPU supports 64 bit. I don't want to spend the effort to find out if every single app I use regularly doesn't break with it < 1258319294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard coded ones, and always /? < 1258319299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's pure wrong < 1258319306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guessdir, current dir, ../lib, ../include < 1258319330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I think there may be some mac specific API to get current dir. And yes what the hell is up with syslib.3i not being a text file? < 1258319348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Most apps don't break on x86_64 any more. < 1258319348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably INTERCAL doesn't look very much like text < 1258319356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, syslib.i worked fine < 1258319358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a small handful do; I've got a VM for those) < 1258319364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not .3i and above < 1258319369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is the difference there < 1258319376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are some operators that only exist in base 3 and above < 1258319383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, outside ascii? < 1258319384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variations of @ < 1258319391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although @ isn't outside ASCII, maybe Macs don't like it < 1258319396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: you use ubuntu right? < 1258319401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, 64-bit will work absolutely splendidly < 1258319406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. ASCII here means lower 127 chars < 1258319424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I'm pretty sure @ is outside that < 1258319429 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1258319440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it isn't used in befunge98 and befunge98 use all the lower 127 chars < 1258319445 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but for go, how is 6g better, now? < 1258319445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from control codes) < 1258319448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: @ is inside the lower 127 < 1258319450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's 64 < 1258319455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is < 1258319455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it ends a program in befunge98 < 1258319456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258319459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to wake up
< 1258319459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or befunge93 fwiw < 1258319468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you didn't come in so late during evening < 1258319476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: < 1258319477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 (a.k.a. x86-64); 6g,6l,6c,6a < 1258319477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most mature implementation. The compiler has an effective optimizer (registerizer) and generates good code (although gccgo can do noticeably better sometimes). < 1258319478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :386 (a.k.a. x86 or x86-32); 8g,8l,8c,8a < 1258319478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparable to the amd64 port. Not as well soaked but should be nearly as solid. < 1258319487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: they're completely separate backends < 1258319496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amd64 probably has a better optimiser, and is maybe faster and stabler < 1258319515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is much easier to optimise for amd64. < 1258319528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The poor register allocator doesn't have as much work to do. < 1258319530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... syslib.i is LF ended. but syslib.3i is CRLF < 1258319530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, registers < 1258319531 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have more register space, eh? < 1258319533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could cause it < 1258319541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Twice the register space. < 1258319545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, registers make me consider making my distro amd64 < 1258319555 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a further division in the whole binary-dividing-of-general-registers things < 1258319555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as 6g) < 1258319565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, let me test if it works when first converted to LF. < 1258319578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, not CRLFs in the distro again < 1258319580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmm. You could even completely and utterly avoid most of the not-niceness of dual-lib setups. < 1258319588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there a blank white bar in Chrome? < 1258319592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the bottom? < 1258319592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but... still < 1258319593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens every now and then, thanks for warning me when that happens < 1258319596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: extensionnos < 1258319597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*extensions < 1258319599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you install one < 1258319603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1258319606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: restart chrome < 1258319609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still? < 1258319618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it just disappeared. Didn't disappear by itself last time I had it, though < 1258319622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: at least everything works on 386, no problems at all, and I don't even have to consider dual-lib < 1258319642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Given that you're doing static linking, you'd be able to mostly ignore it, anyways. < 1258319646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, whatever. < 1258319665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Silently having 32-bit binaries and libs in /bin and /lib sounds "scary" < 1258319683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit binaries generally get stuck in /bin as is normal. < 1258319697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably still want a /lib32, though. < 1258319701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay I found it. It was more complex than CRLF < 1258319723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was due to mac file type not being set to TEXT < 1258319735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, something in the importer < 1258319736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, which is directory and shit-i-have-to-care-about bloat :P < 1258319737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reason for that was it didn't auto translate .3i to anything < 1258319747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, .i was auto translated to some bbedit lite file < 1258319751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code for something I guess < 1258319751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh, I can always bait-n-switch people to amd64 if i deem it to be a good idea < 1258319759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up with TEXT < 1258319761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only if you want 32-bit libraries at all. :P < 1258319762 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: since I know next-to-nothing about 64-bit computing.. if /proc/cpuinfo supports lm, I should be fine, ne? < 1258319776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: just boot the 64-bit ubuntu livecd and see if it works :-P < 1258319778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thus I have to figure out how to make a "clean up file types" tool < 1258319781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: what cpu model is it < 1258319787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mac < 1258319791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Upgrade. By the way, this will make your system amd64." < 1258319796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hahah. < 1258319830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I turn batshit insane and want multiple archs I guess I'd just have /$arch/pkg/ < 1258319840 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name is Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz < 1258319850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: all core 2 duos are 64-bit < 1258319852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, that'd probably work best. < 1258319875 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. well, I'm not gonna reinstall Ubuntu for now, but I am going to reinstall 64-bit arch < 1258319878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't generally need 32 bit libraries. Exceptions: libc. Most apps nowdays work as 64-bit. I know two remaining ones: zsnes and wine < 1258319890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because on windows the transition hasn't really happened yet) < 1258319891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/ < 1258319912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/tree/ (wonder if it should be tree/ or root/) < 1258319936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/mkfile (for my maintenance use, although i could make this part of the installation process i guess) < 1258319948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/info (I guess. the general "package file") < 1258319949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 686!? that won't work on my old hypothetical i486 then! < 1258319962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/install.sh for install scripts and stuff < 1258319964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258319966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install.rc < 1258319970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... I have a 64-bit zsnes... < 1258319980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1258319988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/amd64/foo/tree/ < 1258319989 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsnes only has 32-bit asm code, but we're living in the future, you don't need to use the asm. < 1258319993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait what? Since when? And on gentoo it is just 32-bit with multilib < 1258319994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc at first it'll just be /foo/tree/ < 1258319999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. I thought I did. < 1258320010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does -m32, then. < 1258320016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1258320019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258320030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I make multi-arch setups i'll just make /foo/ return "404 Use PKGREPO=http://pkg.distro.org/686/" instead < 1258320036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what exactly is the job of the find_* functions < 1258320038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a name for 404 I just made up! < 1258320042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer just to change one < 1258320044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for HTTP's flexibility! < 1258320048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just emulators that don't do x86_64. < 1258320057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to find the location of a file like the skeleton or the syslib < 1258320058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in, you merged them < 1258320059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open it < 1258320062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. for the arch virtual machine specifically, is i686 or x86_64 better? < 1258320066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how is it supposed to search? < 1258320067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, freopen it < 1258320071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it checks a series of locations < 1258320077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.archlinux.org/news/440/ < 1258320080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the difference between the test and fopen ones? < 1258320083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch Linux are dropping i686 support... < 1258320085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I got a not-"-m32" really-64-bit zsnes compiled, though. It needed quite a pile of hacking, and crashed when ran, but it *compiled*. < 1258320087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: testopen doesn't leave the file open < 1258320089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: What is your host OS? < 1258320091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can freopen it afterwards < 1258320091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check date < 1258320093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, duh < 1258320099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: If 32-bit, 32-bit; else 64-bit. < 1258320100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Zsnes has a lot of assembly, IIRC. < 1258320104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't use Arch, I didn't know. < 1258320117 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu, 32 bit. I probably need 64-bit Ubuntu to run 64-bit Arch, huh? :/ < 1258320122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "2009-04-01" < 1258320126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *plonk* < 1258320127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And? < 1258320130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Arch. < 1258320132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1 April < 1258320133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read their news. < 1258320135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot < 1258320135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1258320146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They could have written it less... sanely. < 1258320151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I was half-agreeing by the end. < 1258320163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Quake II is 32-bit only. (It's also compiled with egcs XD) < 1258320165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED! :P < 1258320184 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: *is* it possible to run 64-bit VM on 32-bit OS, with 64-bit CPU? damn, I am such a newbie at this. gr < 1258320194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I pasted the date you still didn't understand.... Well, I think "idiot" was fully justified there < 1258320195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes, but it'll emulate 64-bit. < 1258320196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes. < 1258320197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. < 1258320203 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek. < 1258320205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't recognise ISO dates like that. < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ file /usr/bin/* | grep 32-bit < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/fnt2bdf: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/skype: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, stripped < 1258320207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258320210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is pretty strange. < 1258320216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't associate 2009-04-01 with April 1 < 1258320218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of strange dates do you use then? < 1258320221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see an obvious reason for fnt2bdf to be 32-bit. < 1258320224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, YYYY-MM-DD < 1258320226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always use that < 1258320228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I use ISO dates, but I know April Fool's Day as April 1. < 1258320229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of sorting < 1258320231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stop telling me what to do. < 1258320235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do what the hell I like. < 1258320241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1258320243 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly, VirtualBox is saying "VT-x/AMD-V hardware acceleration has been enabled, but is not operational." < 1258320248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said "no, it won't be slow" < 1258320256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can switch to it then reset it < 1258320257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No what won't be slow? < 1258320262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if cpu supports 64-bit < 1258320263 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your 64-bit guest will fail to detech a 64-bit OS" blah blah < 1258320263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't said that yet. < 1258320271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will be sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. <-- that < 1258320276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fnt2bdf is a part of wine-bin-unstable, so that's why it's 32-bit. < 1258320279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never said no it won't be slow < 1258320285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, vmware on 32-bit windows did some nasty cpu tricks. < 1258320286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:24] AnMaster: ehird, I said "no, it won't be slow" < 1258320289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not say that < 1258320292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whatever < 1258320294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: anyway, just run it as 32-bit < 1258320307 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg okay < 1258320311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, point is. you can switch to 64-bit then later switch back to 32-bit (before returning control to host < 1258320327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it even worked on my old sempron with a 32-bit host os running 64-bit guest < 1258320334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it refused to do that on a 32-bit cpu < 1258320352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No real point though < 1258320352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to switch back I mean) < 1258320383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320384 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104| I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : particularly, VirtualBox is saying "VT-x/AMD-V hardware acceleration has been enabled, but is not operational." <-- sure your cpu supports that then? < 1258320391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster — the best choice for VM magic. < 1258320393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is all of it. < 1258320398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wow... < 1258320399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1258320402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not 100" < 1258320403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258320404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a /usr/bin/lddlibc4. < 1258320405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1258320410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258320411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258320412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258320420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Quake II is linked with libc5 < 1258320421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was a damn typo of course < 1258320426 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently, ehird says my model supports it < 1258320426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it requires SDL dynamic, I think < 1258320429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So? I can still addquote it < 1258320433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*64 < 1258320437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, check /proc/cpuinfo < 1258320437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same thing as VT-x < 1258320443 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it says 'lm' < 1258320444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320445 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :105| Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, that's 64-bit < 1258320454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`info < 1258320454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, not VT-x < 1258320455 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File: dir, Node: Top This is the top of the INFO tree \ \ This (the Directory node) gives a menu of major topics. \ Typing "q" exits, "?" lists all Info commands, "d" returns here, \ "h" gives a primer for first-timers, \ "mEmacs" visits the Emacs manual, etc. \ \ In Emacs, you can click mouse button < 1258320455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1258320457 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1258320464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. I installed emul-linux-x86-compat.. < 1258320465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your knee-jerk reaction against my quoting your typo is irriitating < 1258320466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1258320467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1258320470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your typo was funny when read that way < 1258320472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine wasn't < 1258320482 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ AnMaster: okay, in terms of hardware knowledge, I am a dumb terminal. meh. < 1258320482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 313 < 1258320483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, I think it is either vmx or smx that is for the VT-x stuff < 1258320483 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sticks old libc versions into the library path somewhere. < 1258320494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 312 < 1258320495 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooo. < 1258320514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258320543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, either both stays or both goes < 1258320554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are getting emotional over a quote of a funny typo < 1258320557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likening it to an unfunny typo < 1258320559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it, it's childish < 1258320566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my typo wasn't funny at all < 1258320568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wasn't either < 1258320569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody hates you because that was quoted < 1258320570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so same thing < 1258320574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 67 < 1258320574 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67| Reality isn't a part of physics < 1258320575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258320577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 97 < 1258320577 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97| i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys) < 1258320579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 910 < 1258320579 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 10 < 1258320581 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. < 1258320582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1258320583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 100 < 1258320584 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100| Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1258320586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 102 < 1258320587 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :102| I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1258320590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the fucking thing < 1258320591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 110 < 1258320592 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 109 < 1258320595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scrollback < 1258320595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 107 < 1258320598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mehh < 1258320601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 103 < 1258320602 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103| i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258320604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 104 < 1258320605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......................... < 1258320605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1258320608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1258320611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you reverted it in /msg < 1258320614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how childish, not even letting us know < 1258320615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I didn't < 1258320619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did it in channel < 1258320625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1258320627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 313 < 1258320628 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 104 < 1258320632 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104| I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 314 < 1258320636 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think that's funny? < 1258320638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1258320641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even mildly? < 1258320642 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1258320646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are you getting childish over the one I added < 1258320651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what you are doing < 1258320659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're trying to remove it, I'm trying to stop you removing it < 1258320667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are removing the one I added < 1258320671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to stop that < 1258320677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what you are doing < 1258320681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: stop this fucking bullshit plz < 1258320689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it was. You began by reverting mine < 1258320707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, please make ehird be sensible < 1258320712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Meh. < 1258320723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see? < 1258320729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AnMaster is bawwing and overreacting because i added a funny-in-my-opinion typo of his, and then he added a random typo of mine that had no possibility of a joke (and he admits this), plz step into this dispute because AnMaster is so socially retarded that he can't accept people finding typos of him funny and is deeply upset by it < 1258320744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ, and you call me childish < 1258320807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I added a quote I thought was funny, ehird began by reverting it. So I reverted the one he added too. He didn't like that (of course). Still it shows some extreme hypocrisy from his side. < 1258320819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funny, because you said: < 1258320842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:29] AnMaster: ehird, my typo wasn't funny at all < 1258320842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:29] AnMaster: your wasn't either < 1258320846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn* < 1258320857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258320870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously what we need is: ARBCOM to solve the case. < 1258320870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To everyone who isn't a socially incapable retard who can't sleep if someone thinks a typo he made is funny: 32-bit advantages: support for older hardware, no multilib stuff, marginally more compatibility; amd64 advantages: 6g is more stable, MOAR REGISTERS!!11123423 < 1258320878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just used your definition of "funny" last time < 1258320879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1258320909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster was raped by a HackBot quote as a young boy or something, because he's done exactly this before... < 1258320927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ARBCOM? < 1258320945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: More memory, also. < 1258320945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A shady Wikipedia cabal, the final judge, jury and executioner of all thinks Wiki. < 1258320953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 64-bit just uses PAE. < 1258320958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can do that with 32-bit, too. < 1258320966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Arbitration Committee, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM < 1258320968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "just"... < 1258320982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when I'm bored, I go and read ArbCom's case archives. < 1258320990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAE just lets you have more physical address space to map into a process's address space. < 1258321005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't let you map more than 4G per process, still. < 1258321032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit lets you map in quite a bit more stuff. Making mmap'ing an entire file feasible. Hooray. < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 64-bit is more than PAE. For a start: PAE is limited at 64 GB iirc. 64-bit has a higher limit. < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what pikhq said < 1258321044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but only scientists use more than 4 GiB per process and they deserve to DIE IN A FIRE BECAUSE THEY USE HERETIC WITCHCRAFT. < 1258321044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1258321044 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more things < 1258321047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 GiB, oh lord, I am so scared. < 1258321053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am absolutely targeting mainframes. < 1258321054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely/ < 1258321055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed < 1258321061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Absolutely. < 1258321067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 640kb *is* enough for everyone < 1258321068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it's very freaking hard to go beyond what PAE lets you use per-system. < 1258321070 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258321075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what kinda pr ograms do you write that mmap a >4 GiB file < 1258321080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258321082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't. < 1258321089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a database file? < 1258321090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use then < 1258321091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying. < 1258321098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just a suggestion < 1258321101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 32 GiB, not 64 GiB, BTW. < 1258321109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that low heh < 1258321115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"low" < 1258321137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's the Microsoft limitation, not the actual limitation. Never mind, it is 64 GiB. < 1258321139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see what I said. I guess that in 5-10 years it will be low. < 1258321146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah interesting < 1258321148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the crazy super-high-spec Mac Pro people who swap in their own slightly-higher-clock CPU by covering up some pins don't have 32 GiB of RAM < 1258321152 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258321163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In 5-10 years I can fucking change a few lines to switch to amd64. < 1258321175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over-4G processes aren't that rare on our cluster; admittedly we are a part of those heretic witchcrafty people. < 1258321183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there is the register thing. And somewhat saner ISA. And some other things < 1258321192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ISA isn't saner. < 1258321193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah. shame on you < 1258321200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not much. a bit < 1258321201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :registers i mentioned. < 1258321205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: infinitesimally. < 1258321213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is RIP too < 1258321220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 and derivatives are so shit that i don't care about the ISA < 1258321227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about RIP? < 1258321230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is RIP. < 1258321232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Apparently mplayer attempts to mmap files it opens. < 1258321247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relative IP adressing < 1258321269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i care < 1258321271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do i care < 1258321280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, allows fast re-allocatable code. Allowing stuff like PIE executables for example < 1258321304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows address-space randomisation to occur without a performance hit. < 1258321305 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mmaps the internet
< 1258321316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dynamic linking has hardly any performance hit... < 1258321317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful for high security systems to make addresses harder to guess. PIE is slow on 32-bit x86 < 1258321320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: position-independent you mean? < 1258321325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a tuberwebs FS for FUSE :P < 1258321334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I said PIE didn't I? < 1258321334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that with static binaries so i give no shits < 1258321383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and scbl mmap()s 8 GB iirc on x86-64 < 1258321401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on -64. < 1258321403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that is overcommitting memory < 1258321417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still having more than 4 GB ram is nice < 1258321423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and useful for mmap or such < 1258321429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database was already mentioned < 1258321450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to assume SSE support is also nice. < 1258321452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 GiB of per-process RAM is all < 1258321459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 686 has sse doesn't it < 1258321462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about an emulator mmaping a dvd? < 1258321465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No. < 1258321469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't do that :P < 1258321472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm < 1258321474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :686 doesn't even necessarily have MMX. < 1258321478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still absolutely don't want a /lib32... < 1258321479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems sane enough to me < 1258321485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1258321496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so use /lib and /lib64 ? < 1258321497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258321500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lib32 then < 1258321502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no. < 1258321521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 686, you can only assume that you have a floating point unit. < 1258321553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway. you won't need much multilib. libc (including libpthreads and libm, same package) that's about it < 1258321558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ncurses too < 1258321564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: /lib/32 < 1258321569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258321570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the few 32-bit libraries needed < 1258321574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1258321582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason < 1258321603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i definitely want quake ii to run, which is a "yikes" case of a libc5, egcs-compiled 32-bit binary < 1258321620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i think it dynamically loads sdl, i wonder if you can like, delink something < 1258321621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better code optimisation base. a generic 686 target can't assume any sort of vector registers like MMX or SSE (like pikhq said) < 1258321621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and relink it < 1258321624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of other stuff < 1258321631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't matter, things are fast enough < 1258321632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the baseline 64-bit is much higher < 1258321652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me that when you want to watch decode a dvd :P < 1258321660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you know watching < 1258321671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258321700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or encode a dvd for burning < 1258321707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wait extra time < 1258321725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy an ssd, be happy < 1258321725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and there are more quirks to support everything from 686 and up < 1258321728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, won < 1258321730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't help < 1258321733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for encoding < 1258321735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for burning < 1258321737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it will, decoding to disk < 1258321738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1258321739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is CPU intensive < 1258321741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fast enough < 1258321744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1258321746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 686, your system actually checks for the damned floating-point bug. < 1258321747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvds are slow, stop using them < 1258321753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :-D < 1258321755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. < 1258321755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally an advantage < 1258321761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f00f! < 1258321821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I bet you can do a pure 64-bit distro with no multilib. You would have to use something else than grub of course < 1258321832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using lilo anyway. < 1258321833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need something to compile parts of the kernel for boot up code < 1258321842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure if it supports being compiled with 64-bit tools < 1258321857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, tell me how I'd do Quake II without multilib. :P < 1258321864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 32-bit, egcs-compiled, libc5-using. Go! < 1258321891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 32/64-bit capable assembler (like nasm by default) + a 32/64 bit capable linker (easy too) < 1258321891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot! < 1258321893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Static link that shit. < 1258321894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258321901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what pikhq said < 1258321903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1258321913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it's distributed as a binary. < 1258321922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balls. < 1258321929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I totally need an unld. < 1258321941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns a binary into an .o and a .plaintextinfoaboutthebinary < 1258321941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it statically or dynamically linked? because if it is dynamic anyway you are lost < 1258321947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't work for your distro < 1258321953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can tweak the .plaintextinfoaboutthebinary and ld the .o and some other stuff. < 1258321959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That sounds rather hard to o. < 1258321960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not if I relink it. < 1258321962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do. < 1258321964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Badum-tish! < 1258321965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1258321968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had to fix the typo. < 1258321972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You do Quake II without multilib by using a more modern version of it than some strange libc5-linked egcs-compiled binary. < 1258322000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ehh, the thing I was doing was the official Quake II server. < 1258322008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surely unld of a binary to an .o is easy < 1258322026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really < 1258322042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not really. < 1258322060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258322074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I dunno. 686 just feels so much more universal. < 1258322077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that was late < 1258322089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory and registers... they just don't bother me that severely. < 1258322092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's supporting CPUs as old as you are. < 1258322099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much ram do you have? < 1258322120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and will you use PAE? it is quite a hack < 1258322127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit uses PAE, you dolt. < 1258322132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the opposite of what you want < 1258322136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, extended PAE yes < 1258322142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a hack as well. < 1258322143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however. on 32-bit it is more of a hack < 1258322148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than it is on 64-bit < 1258322148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1258322152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how so? < 1258322156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's no baseline above 686 < 1258322166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a hack on 64-bit just as much. < 1258322170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 is a baseline nowadays. < 1258322171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is. amd64 < 1258322175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another baseline < 1258322176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1258322182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first Intel 64-bit CPU came out in 2006. < 1258322191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything sold in the past 4 years supports it. < 1258322193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And AMD CPUs suck. < 1258322197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, Atom hates you! < 1258322202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You suck. < 1258322211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, right. Some of the Atoms don't support it. < 1258322211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stares at you. IT STARES AT YOU WITH ITS EYE. Also it tries to kill you with its 4W of heat. < 1258322218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN YOU FEEL THE HEAT < 1258322229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh that must be a pentium4 right? < 1258322237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that the answer to the riddle? < 1258322240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's based on Pentium 4's NetBurst < 1258322242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecture < 1258322259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I think < 1258322266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1258322305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a lot of the best ThinkPads are 32-bit < 1258322305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. X40 < 1258322343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and? a lot of good computers are outdated by now < 1258322346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no new < 1258322348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news* < 1258322356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they're good and still quite zippy. < 1258322363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run Ubuntu on them, no problems. < 1258322366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium M. < 1258322376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think not supporting them is a good idea. < 1258322380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can run linux on my old first gen ibook with no issues < 1258322383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it from a live cd < 1258322388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your point? < 1258322391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's PPC and shit. < 1258322400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258322402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPads are one of the best PCs ever. < 1258322408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they suck recently, so the old ones are very popular. < 1258322411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1258322447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't think my one is too bad. maybe no the golden days, but it is fast and snappy and supports VT-x and so on < 1258322453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and roubust < 1258322462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the wlan issue magically fixed itself as of recently < 1258322470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that version of Pentium M (if it's the 400 MHz bus one, like it seemed to be) doesn't support PAE either. (No Xen on them, therefore.) < 1258322471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no relevant upgrade around then) < 1258322478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quality did go down with Lenovo, though. < 1258322485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with widescreen... < 1258322487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T60 was okay) < 1258322488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xen needs PAE? < 1258322496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T61 too apart from being widescreen) < 1258322499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Txxx series? < 1258322500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah... < 1258322522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Eh, who uses Xen on a laptop :P < 1258322524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what about a new good laptop? would that be a mac? < 1258322540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There... aren't any, really. < 1258322554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MacBook Pro is superb if you want Mac OS X, of course. < 1258322585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, still using that trackball. < 1258322598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1258322608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258322619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do like the trackpoint btw. much easier to use than the trackpad for me. < 1258322621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258322623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchpad* < 1258322630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trackpad. < 1258322636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have multi-touch stuff. < 1258322643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right; or more specifically, you need to use either a PAE or a non-PAE build of Xen, and they dropped support of the non-PAE version quite a while ago. < 1258322654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I used to, until they dropped the support of it. :p < 1258322657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He never said anything about Xen < 1258322663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I tried on a "you can't replace the battery" macbook recently that someone else at uni had < 1258322677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work too well for me. might take time getting used to < 1258322680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MacBook or MacBook Pro? < 1258322689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Pro, the non-replacable MacBook is new. < 1258322690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unibody thing < 1258322702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was like a month ago or so < 1258322703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unibody MacBook or Unibody MacBook Pro, then. < 1258322714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13" unibody MacBook Pro = unibody MacBook < 1258322719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically identical when it switched over < 1258322719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't know if it was pro or non-pro < 1258322727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 15" or so sounds about right? < 1258322733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Pro < 1258322733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure exactly < 1258322738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1258322743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it have insanely high resolution? If so then 17" :P < 1258322763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, higher than most but not insanely so < 1258322773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they recently put out a small variant of the Pro? I guess it was that 13" thing. < 1258322782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly lower or around the same as my thinkpad I would say < 1258322788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a rouge estimate < 1258322803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of eyeballing it as a suitable replacement for the 12" iBook if it happened to break; hopefully it'll still hold for a while, though. < 1258322842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" is 1920x1200 < 1258322889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and a 17" is quite a bit larger < 1258322892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have noticed < 1258323130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are they doing 1920x1200 in laptops already? Funky. < 1258323269 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258323307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for ages < 1258323313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a February 2000 slideshow, Rob Pike noted: "…although Alef was a fruitful language, it proved too difficult to maintain a variant language across multiple architectures, so we took what we learned from it and built the thread library for C." < 1258323325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alef could return multiple values as well :P < 1258323406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually Google will probably rename it Issue9 , as a reference the issue number nine raised by McCabe on the issue tracker of Google Go Programming Language. This is at least what a lot of people want to believe !" < 1258323406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A world in which people whining on a bug tracker make Google do something < 1258323436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit are trying really hard to get Google to rename it Issue 9 < 1258323441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if anyone else cares < 1258323453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggit has gone down the shitter, has been down it for ages. < 1258323462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue 9 is a shit name anyway < 1258323475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is it officially a "Google" project instead of something based on 20% time? < 1258323477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a good rule of thumb is if anyone calls google the creator of go they don't know shit about it < 1258323484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is a Google project, I believe < 1258323493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoWei-GAPo < 1258323500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Go Programming Language < 1258323501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[google logo]" < 1258323504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by GoogleDevelopers < 1258323507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google Code Channel < 1258323523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they work at Google. < 1258323546 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay guys have you hard about this kool new language called Go < 1258323563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lawl < 1258323571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: the troll door → < 1258323616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, seriously. Using the Google logo, calling themselves GoogleDevelopers, and being able to get something on the Google Code Channel proves only that they work at Google. :-P < 1258323634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what is a Google project is ill-defined anyway < 1258323675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of their work at Google, Google have put material about it with a Google logo on their YouTube account, AND < 1258323685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here at Google, we believe programming should be fast, productive, and most importantly, fun. That's why we're excited to open source an experimental new language called Go. < 1258323687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/11/hey-ho-lets-go.html < 1258323696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rest my case. < 1258323712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that the term "Google project" includes 20% stuff. < 1258323759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one more bit of "evidence": the source files have copyright notices for "Copyright 2009 The Go Authors"; and the AUTHORS file in the root has as its first line "Google Inc." < 1258323775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: By Robert Griesemer, Rob Pike, Ken Thompson, Ian Taylor, Russ Cox, Jini Kim and Adam Langley - The Go Team < 1258323790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also pretty sure it doesn't matter -- if it turns out to be of any use, Google will be using it and supporting it quite well. < 1258323797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda what they do, after all. < 1258323797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "We" < 1258323802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the Google open source blog < 1258323809 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: We, the Go team. < 1258323809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That too. < 1258323818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YES NOT ALL OF GOOGLE INC WORK ON PROJECTS < 1258323821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is < 1258323827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No google project has all of google working on it < 1258323830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "This is the official list of Go authors for copyright purposes" -- "Google Inc."; the "Inc." there makes it sound all official. < 1258323847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know whether Google typically wants copyright for 20% projects. < 1258323854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, then I'll take that as evidence. < 1258323866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's announced on the google open source blog, lists Google Inc. as an author in AUTHORS, has a promo about it on the Google code youtube channel with the Google logo below "The Go Programming Language"... < 1258323871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah, it's a Google project. < 1258323876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google works in teams all the time, you know. < 1258323911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Except arguably the project of "making money for Google". < 1258323939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do realise that an awful lot of Google projects aren't profitable? < 1258323941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance. Google Code < 1258323947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ads, no fees, nothing < 1258323973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Microsoft Research's main purpose is to generate goodwill < 1258323984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe most of Google is for the same purpose? < 1258323992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "Arguably". < 1258324073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Research's main purpose is to research for Microsoft. < 1258324121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know that either; the references seem to be more about how you're free to focus on whatever you find interesting, not on who will get the profits. I guess they might have an "it's still work, even if you self decide what you do" convention. < 1258324122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it just so happens that research generates goodwill is a nice side effect, as far as Microsoft is concerned. < 1258324188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc being static will be fun < 1258324195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500M hello-world < 1258324224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC only supports static linking ATM. < 1258324225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? GHC is static. (As far as I understand what you mean by "being static".) < 1258324229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Research's main purpose is to "enhance the user experience on computing devices, reduce the cost of writing and maintaining software, and invent novel computing technologies -- [and] to advance the field of computer science". It says right that on their web page, no need to speculate or anything. < 1258324236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GHC resulting executables are static? < 1258324240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on libc and the like? < 1258324242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt. < 1258324251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not libc. < 1258324260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mostly I doubt because I've run ldd on ghc-produced executables and seen tons of dependencies.) < 1258324260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the Haskell libs. < 1258324263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. No, it dynamically links against C libraries. < 1258324265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, duh. < 1258324267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally) < 1258324276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses date() on ALL programs < 1258324278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crazy shit like that < 1258324282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that adding static C libs will make it much bigger. < 1258324290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay then. < 1258324292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M hello-world < 1258324315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the normal size, something like 1M? < 1258324322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1258324337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 2M, then. < 1258324388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :624K. < 1258324405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 1.5M, then. < 1258324409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That hello.hs does more than "Hello, world!"... < 1258324421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1258324427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :592K. XD < 1258324434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One need only run ./hello +RTS --help. < 1258324435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't get it to statically link, though. < 1258324484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massive linker errors from a lack of static pthreads. < 1258324485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What error? < 1258324488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258324499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, ghc depends on pthreads ALWAYS. < 1258324502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be *fun*. < 1258324513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why pthreads < 1258324525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The garbage collector can run in parallel. < 1258324528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look it up with my telepathy. < 1258324530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, try /usr/lib/libpthread.a ? < 1258324531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what pikhq said. < 1258324539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lack of static pthreads, he said. < 1258324546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have it on my gentoo < 1258324549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gcc doesn't work" "try /usr/bin/gcc" < 1258324556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant++ < 1258324568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "he uses gentoo, thus it should exist" < 1258324572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Incidentally, tcc or pcc: which do you think will have more compatibility < 1258324581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if it doesn't exist: how the hell did you manage that < 1258324582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "I don't have any non-stock Gentoo packages installed; I am confident in my assertion" < 1258324603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure why it's not linking against it. < 1258324607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, .... "I checked with qfile it came from libc" < 1258324611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does exist, and I'm passing -lpthread to ghc. < 1258324612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about that one? < 1258324616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys-libs/glibc (/usr/lib64/libpthread.a) < 1258324619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... Not happening. < 1258324620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just add /usr/lib/libpthread.a to it < 1258324627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH! < 1258324635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh oh < 1258324637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do this: < 1258324644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*waits* < 1258324652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-static -optl-static -optl-pthread < 1258324662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optl? < 1258324665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option linker < 1258324669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258324681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1258324690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does < 1258324693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a common ghc pitfall < 1258324697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5M. < 1258324702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nailed it. < 1258324733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s gets it down to 1.2M. < 1258324749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upx gets it down to 416K. < 1258324761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/b3wo6 < 1258324763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, imgur crap < 1258324763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/b3wo6.png < 1258324791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upx --brute gets it down to 408K. < 1258324798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--ultra-brute? < 1258324803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.google.com/images?q=google%20books%20fingers < 1258324810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(May've been equivalent to --brute on Linux, I forget) < 1258324815 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, i read reddit too < 1258324827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_, ? < 1258324843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: Stop linking things linked anywhere else < 1258324852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://images.google.com/images?q=google%20books%20fingers <-- what the hell happened? And what is that on the fingers < 1258324862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point of that image < 1258324870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People pressed scan before moving their fingers away, and finger condoms! < 1258324878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's vaguely amusing? < 1258324885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... why finger condomes? < 1258324887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say so < 1258324889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try it with uclibc, but I don't have a uclibc toolchain handy. < 1258324895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *condoms < 1258324896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WHO KNOWS < 1258324905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :408K with --ultra-brute. < 1258324906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the scanning procedure involves finger sex. < 1258324913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a gentoo package for it < 1258324913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258324926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not really. < 1258324942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did try crossdev for it in the past; didn't exactly work) < 1258324976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.o is 4K. < 1258324987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nearly 1.2M of that is libraries... < 1258324998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's impressive, but scary. < 1258325002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try ldd on a dynamically linked one < 1258325009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, pretty useless functions! < 1258325011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sparkle. < 1258325042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, did you see http://sprunge.us/JXMf? < 1258325044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libm, libgmp, libdl, librt, libc, ld-linux-x86_64.so.2, and libpthread. < 1258325052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not strip useless functions? < 1258325054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul Graham's closure-test in Go, except s/number/fixed-size int/ < 1258325058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ghc runtime uses them < 1258325061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're not useless. < 1258325063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ldd -whateveryouneedforfunctions < 1258325065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258325068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses date(), for instance < 1258325077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes date() < 1258325080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I tried to do numbers but couldn't find a suitable number interface; I could have done bignums though) < 1258325084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why does it need date()? < 1258325090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could potentially optimise away the GC in simple programs < 1258325095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in THEORY < 1258325110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably pointless in practise) < 1258325115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I dunno, why not? < 1258325130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Does God exist?" "I dunno, why not?" < 1258325152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: ldd -whateveryouneedforfunctions <-- nm -D? < 1258325155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Arbitrary statement" "What you just said" / my point proven < 1258325163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd doesn't list used functions afaik < 1258325173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121 different functions, according to nm -D... < 1258325178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, incidentally, I found that virus on my computer < 1258325179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nm is the one < 1258325181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What /is/ date() anyway? I see no manpage for it. < 1258325181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Word macro virus < 1258325184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was in the Agora archives < 1258325191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1258325196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, it was gettimeofday() < 1258325199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258325200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1258325200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agora accepts word files? < 1258325205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was in an attachment to a message < 1258325208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing part of a thesis < 1258325222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and why? < 1258325228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Oh, it was gettimeofday() <-- not strange. duh < 1258325237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange for hello world < 1258325238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about random seed for example < 1258325238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So timing, which the RTS does. < 1258325247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yes timing for GC and what not < 1258325261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur mom < 1258325262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258325269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could just say "strange for hello world to use a GC"... < 1258325307 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258325364 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258325427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that the dynamic libraries that hello.hs uses adds up to 2.7M...
< 1258325454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION responds to http://hoisie.com/post/my_thoughts_on_the_go_programming_language to vent
< 1258325466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The environment variables for building go are weird. $GOROOT points to the source, and why do you actually need to set $GOARCH and $GOOS? It's easy to detect that." < 1258325466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$GOROOT points to the TREE. Cross-compiling. < 1258325490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reasonable default is that you're not cross-compiling. < 1258325503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the whole thing is based around it. < 1258325528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still thinks that 64-bit is heavily overrated ...
< 1258325549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go uses a custom, funky build system. Most linux programs are compiled through autoconf and make. The build system has quirks, like if the $GOBIN directory isn't added to your path, it won't install." It's not funky, it's how make should be used. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The build script automatically installs go. But you have to create the installation directory manually." Your $GOBIN should exist. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The binary naming scheme is weird. For i386 you have the following program names:" It's not weird, you're just not used to it. "8c - no idea what it does" Perhaps you should have looked it up, takes two clicks on the website. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have a different architecture, these binaries will be named differently (6a, 6g, 6l, 6c for amd64). I couldn't find out why they use this seemingly arbitrary naming convention." Plan 9 toolchain, for trivial cross-compiling. < 1258325551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those "Language Issues" are rather random. < 1258325554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compiling and running a go program takes three steps (it would be nice if it < 1258325556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just one):" Python is that way. < 1258325558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew, end of flood. < 1258325561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The principle advantage is having twice the registers. < 1258325573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aargh, that was just the first section. < 1258325576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sometimes semicolons are needed, and sometimes they're not." Semicolons are separators, not terminators. The end. < 1258325578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is absurdly register-starved. < 1258325582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you can use them to separate a statement and the end.) < 1258325588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The languages require braces for most control expressions, even if they only contain one inner expression." Good practice. < 1258325593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There isn't an exception mechanism" Feature. < 1258325595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: principal* < 1258325601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The build script automatically installs go. But you have to create the installation directory manually." Your $GOBIN should exist. <-- unusual < 1258325602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ambiguous assignment. The following are identical:" Ambiguous because there's more than one way? < 1258325605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's declaration. < 1258325617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would be annoyed if build system didn't create directories as needed < 1258325619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A compilation error happens when a variable is declared and not used. I'm not a huge fan of this." It's enforcing conciseness and non-laziness. There are no warnings. < 1258325628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shrug, it's a very minor issue < 1258325632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If "a := 1" and "var a = 1" don't differ that's a bit weird. < 1258325638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, an annoying one < 1258325646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and in $PATH? < 1258325649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: := is just shorthand < 1258325650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of crap is that < 1258325661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GOBIN should be ~/bin or /usr/local/bin or whatever < 1258325667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I symlink binaries from ~/local/foo/bin to ~/bin as needed < 1258325669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just where it puts binaries of go tools and go-using pprograms < 1258325671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258325681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing every program coded in Go into a Go-specific location is madness. < 1258325682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I refuse to have ~/local/foo/bin in baoth < 1258325683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Aye, and I think that's a bit strange given that "var" isn't that long either. :-P < 1258325685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in path* < 1258325688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, 64-bit is more than PAE. For a start: PAE is limited at 64 GB iirc. 64-bit has a higher limit. < 1258325691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Point it to ~/local/bin. < 1258325698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody is coming even close to reaching 64 GB yet (besides IBM) < 1258325700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no such thing < 1258325701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's what you're meant to do. < 1258325706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to be a bit leery of fairly different syntaxes for the exact same thing. < 1258325710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and. that is for Go itself I assume < 1258325710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop bitching, nobody cares < 1258325713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258325714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for both. < 1258325722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main problem with PAE (and 64-bit) is drivers < 1258325724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the Go programs should be able to run from build dir surely < 1258325726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It installs the compilers, tools etc and programs written in go install to $GOBIN. < 1258325731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ... Actually, nobody is coming close to *justifying* that on a normal system. < 1258325733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't want to install every time I debug a program < 1258325740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, they do. < 1258325741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pure madness < 1258325742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your point? < 1258325742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big difference. < 1258325762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Weird debug statements. This happened when I had an out-of-bounds error." Translation: Oh god, it gives a stack trace and the values of registers. Kill me now. < 1258325764 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Yes, but only scientists use more than 4 GiB per process and they deserve to DIE IN A FIRE BECAUSE THEY USE HERETIC WITCHCRAFT. < 1258325766 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258325769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aand my responses are over < 1258325770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I want to be able to install built programs anywhere. Like I compile a C program, doesn't need to go into ~/local/llvm/bin < 1258325777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I used llvm-gcc < 1258325781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (1) Stop fucking bitching (2) make GOBIN=... install < 1258325793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of argument is this < 1258325801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) You. Set. GOBIN. To. A. Non. Go. Specific. Directory. That. Is. The. Whole. Point. < 1258325815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I install every app in a specific prefix. Always. < 1258325817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :period. < 1258325826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I'm not about to install Go anyway < 1258325827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go use GoboLinux, whiner. < 1258325832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not until I need it < 1258325838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I considered that < 1258325842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody gives a shit about your personal conventions because nobody else uses them and you're using YOUR chosen conventions to complain about Go, which is an invalid argument. < 1258325848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not interested. < 1258325860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "all other build systems work with this" < 1258325867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still chose it. < 1258325870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I don't have ~/bin in PATH < 1258325874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, I'm not interested. Do not expect any further responses.. < 1258325877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*responses. < 1258325877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have /bin /usr/bin in PATH < 1258325901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh the usual "ehird being irritated at me being right mode" < 1258325905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a nice evening < 1258325912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts ehird on ignore
< 1258325932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, you both fail at conversation so hard that it's not even funny any more. < 1258325937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, "You're only not talking to me because I'm right! I'm going to ignore YOU!" — the age old trolling technique. < 1258325944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Objection: I don't bother engaging in conversation with AnMaster. < 1258325949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rile him up. < 1258325959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't fail at it really. Seems ehird did though < 1258325969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you both do. < 1258325974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but yes it it hard to talk to him since he refuses to even consider my arguments < 1258325975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an unexpected response. I sure am sure that that'll change AnMaster's mind. < 1258325987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm welcome to engage in conversation with anyone who isn't a blathering idiot. < 1258325995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to do that in here because AnMaster always pipes up. < 1258326005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, see, that attitude is part of the failure. :-P < 1258326015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hey, I tried with AnMaster, I really did. < 1258326030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Being able to assume SSE support is also nice. < 1258326035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the issue with such a build system is that it breaks standard conventions of what should work on *nix < 1258326050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to run CPUID, besides ... P4 had SSE2 long before AMD (which is in heavy decline thanks to Core2Duo improvements) < 1258326065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another classic troll technique... somebody makes a comment about the war and the troll tries to force the issue on the commentator. < 1258326066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, everything is supposed to work when installed to a prefix, possibly needing passing a rpath argument, but most often not < 1258326077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Congrats at misunderstanding the entire point of that sentence. < 1258326079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if this is static binaries? wouldn't need it < 1258326110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I dislike fat binaries that cpuid-switch over 8 different optimization levels. :-P < 1258326119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but ehird seems to refuse to see this. I have to declare him a lost cause sadly < 1258326121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You don't have to run CPUID, you just build everything with SSE support. < 1258326127 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to separate builds for every microarchitecture?? < 1258326136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then 686 is not the baseline < 1258326152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you going to tell AnMaster to stop continuing his argument with me to you? I'm pretty sure he's not going to stop < 1258326169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. < 1258326169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course you don't need to declare 686 the baseline < 1258326175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was what ehird wanted iirc < 1258326177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1258326213 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway i definitely want quake ii to run, which is a "yikes" case of a libc5, egcs-compiled 32-bit binary < 1258326217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what doesn't matter? ehird being stupid about Go? If so agreed. It would be pointless to continue talking about it. *yawn* < 1258326217 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem there? < 1258326227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what isn't the problem is easier to answer? < 1258326233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i told you so < 1258326234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258326241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Quake II is open sourced now, right? just recompile it < 1258326253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only said quake ii to give an example of a pathological case that i want to work < 1258326254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh good point < 1258326281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster goes into "start agreeing with everyone who says anything that even remotely contradicts what I say" mode :-/ < 1258326310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was Quake 2 released, late 90s? (Quake 1 was 1996) < 1258326313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, of course it won't work for all possible programs. In case you for some reason want to run old old binary code < 1258326320 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, it would have to use ECGS since nothing else existed < 1258326325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1258326326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc existed < 1258326334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what about gcc? < 1258326338 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean GCC 2.95 (which is what EGCS became) just barely came out in 1999 < 1258326350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, EGCS was based on gcc < 1258326351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fork < 1258326354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258326355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that re-merged again < 1258326359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake 1 used GCC 2.7.2 < 1258326364 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally < 1258326365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so GCC would have existed too < 1258326373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC existed but wasn't acceptable < 1258326373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as EGCS < 1258326392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that's different. I agree yes. But that wasn't what you said to begin with < 1258326393 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the fork < 1258326436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think Quake 1 used such heavy FPU assembly? because GCC 2.7.2 couldn't optimize worth a damn for anything besides 386 or 486 < 1258326457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, I might lose connection, going to reset adsl modem (it is acting strangely) < 1258326479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC isn't the only compiler family in the world, though; I'm a bit surprised that id has used gcc there, in fact. < 1258326480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, better code optimisation base. a generic 686 target can't assume any sort of vector registers like MMX or SSE (like pikhq said) < 1258326482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also because it was a game that pushed the limits of the hardware... and they tend to need some assembly to run nicely. < 1258326500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm talking about the linux build < 1258326510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't assume anything with 686, not even FPU < 1258326517 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you stick to Intel and AMD only < 1258326546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unless you stick to everything" < 1258326548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a reasonable sticking-to, these days. < 1258326550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything - epsilon < 1258326551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they used GCC in order to cross compile from Alphas (Quake) < 1258326566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for ipv6 tunnel, not disconnecting that way < 1258326573 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they also wanted a compiler free to redistribute for modifying Quake, was going to use DJGPP but at the last minute wrote their own subset < 1258326613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, wait, doesn't DJGPP use gcc or something iirc? < 1258326623 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, GCC < 1258326635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "was going to use DJGPP but at the last minute wrote their own subset"? < 1258326640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258326647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subset of DJGPP < 1258326648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258326659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they compiled for DOS with DJGPP, which is what they distributed shareware/commercially < 1258326668 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, their own QCC, Quake C compiler < 1258326680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, they wrote a whole C compiler? < 1258326690 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a real compiler, just a wimpy hack < 1258326695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why < 1258326699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1258326708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/history.html mentions Quake; obviously they're proud of it. < 1258326710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they used a modified LCC in some later versions < 1258326712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and what did that compiler do? < 1258326720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1258326722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile mods < 1258326723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what didn't it do < 1258326725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258326726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ah < 1258326805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they each shared a developer, I think < 1258326812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dir.filewatcher.com/d/FreeBSD/4.6-release/i386/qcc-1.01.tgz.109841.html -- "This is the last major component of the quake utilities to be released. To be honest, I have been a little reticent to release this because most of the actual qc code is basically rather embarassing crap. The time never became available to even give it a good top to bottom going over. I never spent any quality engineering time on my parts, American wrote a lot of qc code, and e < 1258326812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ven Romero has a bit of work in there. It is a mess. If you look through the code and occasionally think "This is stupid!", you are probably right..." < 1258326865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds pretty horrible if you read the next couple of paragraphs too. < 1258326872 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recompiled Quake 1 like two days ago, works under DOSBox
< 1258326959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used GCC 2.95.3 (ahem, EGCS) and BinUtils 2.16.1, though < 1258326963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not old 2.7.2 (ugh) < 1258326997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=22910 < 1258327004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, reddit are arguing about whether Go or Algol 68 is better < 1258327033 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258327060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://leileilol.mancubus.net/crap/egake.png < 1258327061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty < 1258327070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, a non eso-language that allows spaces in identifiers, without needing to quote them, is a brilliant concept < 1258327092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he made more progress since that ;-) < 1258327167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258327171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://icculus.org/~chunky/ut/aaut/ < 1258327172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glorious < 1258327189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I used GCC 2.95.3 (ahem, EGCS) and BinUtils 2.16.1, though <-- anything wrong with newer versions? < 1258327216 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it, but I just like 2.95.3 in some ways (faster compiles, good enough, etc.) < 1258327236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, which is the newest one that would work? < 1258327248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a hard time believing that 4.4 would work for example
< 1258327253 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to say it's my "pet", but I did cram DJGPP 2.03p2, BinUtils 2.16.1, GCC 2.95.3 onto one floppy (.7z compressed) with decoder < 1258327266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't try anything newer, esp. since DOSBox is a glorified 486 DX2 anyways :-/ < 1258327279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming your host cpu is fast enough, e.g. 1 Ghz) < 1258327297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I assume 2 GHz or more these days < 1258327306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and what about dosemu? < 1258327315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it better than dosbox iirc? < 1258327323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU is good, obviously faster, but I'm not on Linux now ;-) < 1258327332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it needs linux? heh < 1258327343 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU? yes DOSBox? no < 1258327344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why obviously faster? < 1258327351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V86 mode < 1258327351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtualisation < 1258327358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox can run on PPC, even < 1258327361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or have the underlinings from Wikipedia's ALGOL 68 article turned into bold type? Even while the text is all "In the examples above you will observe underlined words"? < 1258327387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, right. vm86 is kind of deprecated. I guess dosemu is the only user. < 1258327395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox comes with its own built-in DOS "OS" subset, DOSEMU needs something else (e.g. FreeDOS, MS-DOS, DR-DOS) < 1258327406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE? (dunno, really) < 1258327436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, pretty sure that I got dosemu working under 64-bit? < 1258327436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even without V86, under x86-64 they claim DOSEMU can emulate DJGPP apps "natively" < 1258327449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it works, just the 16-bit stuff is fully emulated < 1258327451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* app-emulation/dosemu < 1258327451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 1.4.0 ~1.4.0.1 ~1.4.1_pre20091009 {X alsa debug gpm sndfile svga} < 1258327451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bolding here, even < 1258327452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slow) < 1258327452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable < 1258327465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, fast enough? < 1258327470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for old dos apps I mean < 1258327474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258327511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, then no issue I guess. If my cpu can emulate a N64 at decent speed (good gpu needed too) I fail to see how a old dos emulator could require more < 1258327526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, direct link to it? I'm lazy < 1258327535 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I'm just saying, DOSBox ain't that fast < 1258327544 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not multithreaded, for instance, and it's written in C++ (heh) < 1258327549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox is sloooooooow < 1258327557 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258327559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N64 wasn't that fast either, actually < 1258327565 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, faster than a 486, but not 10x or anything < 1258327569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68 < 1258327572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, dosemu on x86-64 was fast enough < 1258327580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, thanks to V86 ;-) < 1258327584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, read again < 1258327587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, x86-64 < 1258327589 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1258327592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no vm86 supported < 1258327595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 32-bit is "native speed" they claim < 1258327605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 16-bit stuff that is slower than normal < 1258327613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I think I was running some olf freedos apps < 1258327615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258327638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and it was still faster than an original 486 I bet < 1258327656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it went past on screen too fast < 1258327658 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say without a benchmark to prove it < 1258327665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad app, not adjusting for CPU speed) < 1258327668 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, 486 is slow anyway you look at it ;-) < 1258327671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I don't have it installed any more < 1258327679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a year ago at least < 1258327679 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I just assumed that much :-) < 1258327699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DOSEMU does support some kind of "throttle" I think < 1258327708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it just me, or have the underlinings from Wikipedia's ALGOL 68 article turned into bold type? Even while the text is all "In the examples above you will observe underlined words"? <-- not just you < 1258327711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see bold too < 1258327729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. Underlined is what was in the only ALGOL 68 book I've read. < 1258327761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258327785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is totally unformatted for me. < 1258327798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But editing it shows bolding. < 1258327803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW QUEER THIS LIFE WE LEAD < 1258327804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the page uses ''' ''' in it. so it would have to be bold < 1258327816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe some vandal? < 1258327828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems b inside pre is being ignored < 1258327831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vandal? Come on. < 1258327860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bold is "right" in the sense that it's not about the exact typeface. It's just that the text refers to underlining in at least one place. < 1258327869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this one is underlined http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ALGOL_68&oldid=229234946 < 1258327896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|int| a real int = 3 ; < 1258327911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|proc| sieve = (|list| l) |list|: < 1258327934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ALGOL_68&diff=251913502&oldid=250851666 < 1258327936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1258327946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1258328039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258328481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU works on most architectures -- it just emulates when it can't run code directly. < 1258328499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you've actually used it elsewhere? < 1258328534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No, because I don't have non-x86 systems. < 1258328544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know it has a full x86 emulator shoved in there. < 1258328559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't honestly know if it would work, I don't think it even works on NetBSD or FreeBSD anymore < 1258328566 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't tried, so ... < 1258328578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm sure it at least *can* run on FreeBSD. < 1258328591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it may need to use the Linux emulation feature. < 1258328595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must've used to (and I know NetBSD ran it at some point) < 1258328722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "problem" with DOSEMU is that it's "multiverse" for some unknown reason < 1258328823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody wants to maintain it < 1258328825 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Dude, Go is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen touted as a real programming language. They took D's syntax and stuck some concurrency bits from Erlang in it. Big deal. I bet the concurrency doesn't work right, because it never does in imperative languages. < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not a low level language just because it runs fast; that whole idea is a C++ oriented lie. OCaML is as fast as they come; I guarantee it's faster in real life than this piece of crap, and it's GCed as well. And OCaML has REAL exception handling; far better than virtually any other language, other than Lisp. < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should take Ken out back and shoot him in the back of the head for foisting that piece of crap on humanity. At least think about designing a language for longer than a few hours before showing it to people. The fact that it's mostly just some Yacc spooge ... jesus, what unutterable crap. Google + celebrity = fail.]] < 1258328889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: expressing your opinion I see! < 1258328910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, goyacc includes an example that's a full program written in yacc; a rarity nowadays < 1258328936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've been developing my own programming language for 6 months, and Go's feature list is so short it makes me cry." ;; consider calling your language "D" < 1258328953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the "problem" with DOSEMU is that it's "multiverse" for some unknown reason <-- multiverse what? < 1258328954 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258328957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu? < 1258328959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu < 1258328962 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repository < 1258328979 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a maintainer (AFAICT), but I guess it's not updated frequently enough?? < 1258328980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in ubuntu? well who cares? you could get the source yourself? < 1258328988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did :-) < 1258329001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even have Linux installs (just liveCDs and one USB) ;-) < 1258329062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kragen Sitaker's response to that "so short it makes me cry" comment: [[You could have written this comment in 1975, replacing "Go" with "C", if the language you were working on was PL/1. Except that Reddit didn't exist yet.]]) < 1258329065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why would I care? < 1258329078 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you live? :-P < 1258329086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ? < 1258329087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why would I care?" — rich from AnMaster who often goes onto his personal preferences when talking < 1258329088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? ;-) < 1258329120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you seems to be lost in the age of dos to me < 1258329143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, are you using it seriously or just for old nostalgia? < 1258329164 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see the point of reinventing everything ten times over or discarding stuff that works < 1258329180 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun, I don't get paid for it or anything < 1258329188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I think you might have skipped some logical steps there < 1258329201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1258329201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is "for old games" or "for porting esolangs to it" or similar. Sure < 1258329256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, to me DOS doesn't really work any more. sure when it was the best you had.... < 1258329323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also don't see the beauty in the simplicity of Befunge93 < 1258329334 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mean 98 is bad, just 93 is still good for something < 1258329336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I see that it isn't TC. < 1258329342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if it was TC then yes < 1258329389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ulimited +x and +y added on 93 (and with 98-style wrapping to make that actually work) would be fine < 1258329395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit irritating to code in < 1258329404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and it is much more fun to write a 98 interpreter than a 93 interpreter < 1258329408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 93 one is trivial < 1258329414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 98 one, not so < 1258329740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zile vs. full Emacs, why bother with something less than the real thing? 'cause it's "good enough" for some cases < 1258329857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use an old 8086 grep ("xgrep") that's only 3k, not as good as GNU grep but gets the job done ;-) < 1258329858 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258329879 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258330072 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although ZILE comparison isn't fair, it's a lot harder to build than standard Emacs) < 1258330108 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258330338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258330453 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gxis revido" < 1258330581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, go was ported to bsd by an outsider < 1258330582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 4 days. < 1258330594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(freebsd) < 1258330597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all tests pass < 1258330615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4990 lines of code changed < 1258330829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4990?! < 1258330872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golang.pastebin.com/d39006986 < 1258330875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files changed/modified < 1258330898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had to do runtime, syscall stuff, os-specific files for the stdlib, and change some misc stuff < 1258330909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if he did it in 4 days that's great < 1258330912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that porting should be easy < 1258330919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, os at least; who knows about arch/binary format < 1258330932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's only freebsd/amd64 too, but eh) < 1258330934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4 days!!) < 1258331248 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258332547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ruby code generates Python code, which generates Perl code, which generates Lua code, which generates OCaml code, which generates Haskell code, which generates C code, which generates Java code, which generates Brainfuck code, which generates Whitespace code, which generates Unlambda code, which generates the original Ruby code again. < 1258332555 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258332734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: The Ruby code generates Python code, which generates Perl code, which generates Lua code, which generates OCaml code, which generates Haskell code, which generates C code, which generates Java code, which generates Brainfuck code, which generates Whitespace code, which generates Unlambda code, which generates the original Ruby code again. < 1258333617 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no go? < 1258333633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1258333634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine < 1258333639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a4j4a/whats_the_best_most_interesting_piece_of_code/c0ftftg < 1258333640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold! < 1258333739 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1258333746 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cüül < 1258335302 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258335888 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258335925 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258337961 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258338122 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-130-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258338446 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey ehird, are you around? I could use your expertise, perhaps. < 1258338485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258338488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you ignoring me? < 1258338503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo You may be ignoring me, but yes. < 1258338503 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may be ignoring me, but yes. You may be ignoring me, but yes. < 1258338540 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not ignoring you as of the moment. < 1258338548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot. < 1258338601 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, suppose I want to write a program that, at arbitrary times, stores data meant to persist indefinitely. < 1258338638 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like new users' usernames. < 1258338663 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What storage method should I use? < 1258339167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Filesystem. < 1258339228 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, you didn't say "database". < 1258339270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: New users' usernames, btw? Do you just mean a list of all usernames? < 1258339301 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, presumably, not just their usernames but stuff like password hashes and other stuff. < 1258339324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Look at /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow (or is it /etc/shadw? I forget). < 1258339329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mostly just /etc/password. < 1258339333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do something similar. < 1258339337 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've seen /etc/passwd. < 1258339347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have username/password/email and you know : is in none of them, just append < 1258339350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :username:hash:email < 1258339361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, make sure to do passwords with < 1258339366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bcrypt.sourceforge.net/ < 1258339374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong one < 1258339381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ < 1258339383 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better than whatever I happen to be thinking of at the moment? < 1258339385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and store the salt, so that it's username:hash:salt:email < 1258339387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Yes. < 1258339394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very secure and easy to use. < 1258339455 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this Blowfish stuff better than SHA-2? < 1258339476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it iterates and salts for you < 1258339489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important shit, cryptography is really hard, and this way it does passwords very securely and simply for you < 1258339499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blowfish comes courtesy of OpenBSD. < 1258339508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should tell you all you need to know about it. :P < 1258339518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't, OpenBSD's password scheme based on Blowfish does though < 1258339523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blowfish comes courtesy of Schneier. < 1258339527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, really? < 1258339528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1258339535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is even more of an endorsement. < 1258339546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1258339640 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do feel like something I create by my own understanding of password hashing would be more reliable than some thing a certain person points me to. < 1258339663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make your own, you *will* be insecure. < 1258339673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography is really fucking hard. < 1258339692 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not going to make my own hash function or anything. < 1258339697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a decade or two to learn it before just "creating your own". < 1258339728 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creating cryptographic primitives = no. Combining them = maybe? < 1258339774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combining them = foolish. Worst case scenario, you make the whole thing less secure. Best case scenario, you have accomplished nothing. < 1258339828 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean combining them into new cryptographic primitives. < 1258339841 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless password hashing code is a type of cryptographic primitive. < 1258339903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password hashing is harder than you think. < 1258339908 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here: "To set the password, receive the new password, generate a random number, store the random number, prepend the random number to the password, hash that, and store that. To check a password, prepend the random number to it, hash it, and see if it matches the stored hash." < 1258339922 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that sort of thing okay? < 1258339941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That specific thing is called a "salted hash". And that is exactly what you should do. < 1258340054 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders whether he's satisfied his urge to prove himself worthy.
< 1258340138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a rather large salt, BTW -- each additional bit of salt makes the size of the hypothetical hashing dictionary double. < 1258340166 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1258340186 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine 128 bits would be plenty, and 512 bits would also be plenty. And I like the number 512. < 1258340359 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bcrypt thing looks like it is combining cryptographic primitives to make new cryptographic primitives. Blowfish is a block cipher, not a hash function. < 1258340409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a well-known way of turning block ciphers into hash functions. < 1258340470 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly true. < 1258340479 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they don't just use a hash function directly. < 1258340648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the salt to encode some other data, and make hashes unique to each user < 1258340686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal < 1258340691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :py-bcrypt can generate the salt for you < 1258340698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is for rainbow tables < 1258340724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :salts make rainbow tables nearly useless if used correctly < 1258340766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use py-bcrypts example < 1258340784 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders decision paralysis.
< 1258340827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do py-bcrypt. You fail at cryptography forever, like 99% of people. < 1258340829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, salts aren't fundamentally more secure than a long password < 1258340846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a lot easier to remember < 1258340852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't give him ideas < 1258340855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1258340858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail at knowing what a hashed salt is < 1258340866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the password hasher generates a random salt < 1258340869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258340871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cats it with the passwd < 1258340873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stores it separately < 1258340878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about what the user does < 1258340885 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yer, salts are potentially fundamentally more secure. < 1258340890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they aren't < 1258340892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use py-bcrypt, seriously < 1258340893 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Databases can get leaked. < 1258340894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it < 1258340903 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case they get the salt too < 1258340921 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a complex password is leaked, its complexity doesn't help. If a hash and a salt are leaked... well, it'll at least take a while for them to find the password. < 1258340939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's the same < 1258340951 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, are you saying that given a hash and salt, it's trivial to find the password? < 1258340952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, easier with the salt < 1258340954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258340986 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have a hash and a salt, how does that help me to log in as you? < 1258340987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that given, say, a 64-bit password and a 64-bit salt, you have no more security than a 128-bit password < 1258341032 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how. < 1258341050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way, you're looking for a 128-bit set of data that produces a given value < 1258341085 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a password is leaked, I'm looking for no data. If that hash and salt are leaked, I'm looking for 64 bits of data. < 1258341096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the password be leaked? < 1258341103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sane systems store a hash of the password < 1258341117 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: there are plenty of insane ones out there) < 1258341136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that a hashed password and a hashed, salted password are equally effective fundamentally < 1258341145 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I'm failing to see that you're talking about a hash versus a salted hash, rather than a clear password versus a salted hash. < 1258341154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think so < 1258341186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, when storing a large collection of data, salts do have the advantage that a given cleartext won't get the same ciphertext with different salts < 1258341198 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively, a salt is an extension of the password that the server keeps track of and doesn't ask for. < 1258341204 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1258341230 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a bit like a method of making a password easier to remember. < 1258341246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1258341259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my "advantage" I just mentioned is really just a function of length again < 1258341277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for security < 1258341348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just so people get the security of having aldsj2ou43as;kdjAWE!(*IU%@K!J$%>!@<#M$LK@!(U#$ (@#OI!JUORJQ < 1258341357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a password, without needing to remember it < 1258341396 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *all* of the security of having that as a password. < 1258341425 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, having a 0-bit password and making up for it by having a 128-bit hash would be absurd. < 1258341440 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hash/salt/ < 1258341463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258341468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: well, yeah < 1258341483 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order for that to be secure, logging in would have to be impossible. < 1258341486 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258341500 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258341524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that the argument about a salt being stored separately from the password for security holds no water; it's no more additionally secure than any other system where the components are held in different locations < 1258341546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. where a random string is XORed with the password pre-hashing < 1258341610 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258341629 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, Remembrane. < 1258341647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681 <-- if I owned one of these, it would be a GRegor. < 1258342514 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess that my chief subgoal in doing this project should be to do it badly. < 1258342535 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a salted-hash scheme I come up with myself is a perfect example of what I ought to do. < 1258343126 0 :Oranjer!i=6247146f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ncrlhnlajhcxqxkh JOIN :#esoteric < 1258343131 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1258343368 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Oranjer entered the channel of Esoteric, on the network of freenode; and he was enlightened. < 1258343381 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, I guess < 1258343392 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, my laptop broke < 1258343398 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no access to anything anywhere < 1258343583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258343635 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1258343690 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything happening over here? < 1258343919 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We seem to be kind of talking about how to make a program. < 1258343926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, one where people can log in. < 1258343937 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258343942 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1258344162 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ehird was advising me that it would be unwise to write my own salted hash scheme. < 1258344174 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :salted..hash...uh, okay < 1258344679 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for the record, I have been without access to a computer for the last two weeks < 1258344856 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1258345296 0 :lifthrasiir!i=xy6lzx07@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258347753 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1258349929 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does anyone know of any languages with syntax that allows a loop to have a condition checked in the middle of the loop with no typing repition? < 1258349972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. rather than getInput(); while(checkInput()) { useInput(); getInput(); } or while (true) { getInput(); if (!checkInput()) break; useInput(); } < 1258349998 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/repition/repitition/ < 1258351046 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your second example has no repetition of more than one character (except for "Input", "()", "; ") < 1258351063 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any repetition it's hard to get a source file of more than 256 bytes :) < 1258351073 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with unicode of course < 1258351096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: but then the loop reads wonky < 1258351103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the condition is not really a part of the loop < 1258351117 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be looking for something like do { } while () { }; < 1258351128 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even wonkier... < 1258351147 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do {getInput();} while(checkInput()) {useInput();} < 1258351147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: sure, but then it's clear you have part of the loop condition there < 1258351158 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not clear where the loop actually is < 1258351163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258351163 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about scope? < 1258351172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm asking if people have syntaxes for that < 1258351182 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do {int a = 2; } while(1 != 2) {a ++;} <-- error: undefined variable a < 1258351218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a brackets-mandatory language like Perl, you could have while as a statement be syntactic sugar for if (!condition) break; < 1258351358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midWhile x y z = do x' <- x;if y then z x' >> midWhile x y z else return () -- There. I defined one for Haskell. Happy? < 1258351384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1258351420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what does the >> do? < 1258351491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc do {statement1 case statement2} { uplevel 1 [list while 1 [list $statement1 \; if [list ! $case] break \; statement2 ]] } ;# There. I defined one for Tcl. Happy? < 1258351517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: once again, no < 1258351518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: x >> y = x >>= \_ -> y < 1258351535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have no clue what that means :/ < 1258351558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is that just doing one thing after another? < 1258351568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258351572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258351575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have said that < 1258351576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And throwing away the result of the first. < 1258351589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that Tcl code is used as follows: do {getInput} {checkInput} {useInput}. < 1258351734 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens for: do {getInput} {} {useInput} < 1258351757 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i suppose there's no point considering it < 1258351760 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an error anyway < 1258351765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Impossible in Tcl. < 1258351799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest you can get is returning the empty string. < 1258352832 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I still awake? < 1258353006 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's tuesday tomorrow? < 1258354041 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must... stop.. posting.. passwords.. publically < 1258354075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: it's Monday tomorrow! < 1258354093 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:29] === CTCP time reply “Mon Nov 16 01:29:45” from Sgeo_ < 1258354101 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not where sgeo_ lives < 1258354111 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here it's tuesday tomorrow < 1258354134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 12 minutes it will be Tuesday tomorrow! < 1258354139 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loved the "SgeoPPW" password
< 1258354144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:29:45? That's not late at all. < 1258354146 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, it's changed, so...) < 1258354158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... says the guy who needs to be up by noon. :P) < 1258354220 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:50:08 now, sgeo_ < 1258354231 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what time it is < 1258354243 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus double whatever the ping time is from my pc to yours, plus my reaction and typing time < 1258355520 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258356055 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258356146 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258358055 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258358399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258358301 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258358301 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258358399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258358400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258358529 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258359470 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258362425 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258362654 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258362843 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258363385 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258363809 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :facsimile < 1258364045 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258364838 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258358400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258365844 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258365845 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258365849 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258366576 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258367022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258367271 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258368844 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258371056 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258371312 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258371312 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258371887 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258372121 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258372187 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258372187 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258373702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1258373707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258373711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow at clog < 1258373714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't have time for the ick port for a few days < 1258373714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it could do that < 1258373717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ok < 1258373726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some university stuff. < 1258373772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still maybe I should send a patch of what I got. Did you integrate that first patch already? Because I rearranged things a bit (to work better in some ways) < 1258373779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1258373781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is the autotools check < 1258373785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saved it, but haven't tried to integrate it < 1258373799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should try to pick out the non-mac specific parts < 1258373803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is ready < 1258373805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely, I'll look at your patches then try to create one myself that's properly integrated based on yours, and send it back to you for testing < 1258373809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is split in two < 1258373824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't really do that for the mac specific stuff though < 1258373840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway this ICK_PATHSEP, where would it be defined? < 1258373844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :config.h or elsewhere? < 1258373846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: config.h < 1258373854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... as long as there's an autoconf macro for that < 1258373856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no clue how to add THAT to autotools < 1258373857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there isn't, I'll write one < 1258373861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should only be a line or so < 1258373868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could check on: < 1258373874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(macintosh) < 1258373881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#elif defined(__WIN32__) < 1258373883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1258373885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1258373886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258373904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know that works. I probably missed something (what about 64-bit windows?) < 1258373930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw how do you update bconfig.in? < 1258373940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, autoreconf in the top dir doesn't < 1258373944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at buildaux/bconfig.ac < 1258373953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if you've done autoreconf in the top dir < 1258373955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make should update it < 1258373968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no such file or directory < 1258373978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buildconfig.ac? < 1258373991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, buildaux/buildconfig.ac < 1258374014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you don't even need the autoreconf unless you're upgrading to a newer version of autoconf than the one that was used to generate configure < 1258374020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I did autoreconf in top dir, and no it wasn't updated < 1258374038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I had to do that, due to having a different autoconf and automake version < 1258374039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: autoreconf updates configure and Makefile.in, such that the makefile updates everything eles < 1258374040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*else < 1258374051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that apply to out of tree builds too? < 1258374066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1258374072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for native builds? < 1258374074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of tree builds will update the build system in-tree if it needs updating < 1258374078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for native or cross < 1258374084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it didn't work then < 1258374088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1258374108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to run make < 1258374111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the autoreconf < 1258374114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make updates the buildsystem < 1258374119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I did that < 1258374132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and buildconfig should have updated accordingly < 1258374175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, further: bconfigh.in and bconfig.h doesn't match. As in bconfig.h contains lines that src/bconfigh.in doesn't < 1258374187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like HAVE_VSNPRINTF < 1258374196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configh.in matches better < 1258374219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if bconfigh.in is getting updated? < 1258374222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buildconfig itself is < 1258374233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact as far as I can tell my bconfig.h was based on configh.in and not bconfigh.in < 1258374242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1258374244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even says so < 1258374248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the top of the file < 1258374252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258374257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know what's caused that < 1258374259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1258374261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because you aren't cross-compiling < 1258374267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so config.h and bconfig.h are the same < 1258374273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to avoid running configure twice, it just copies it across < 1258374282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes of course. But I would need things to update when I do changes to things < 1258374301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything in buildconfig.ac should also be in configure.ac < 1258374315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I doubt there is any modern compiler that can corss compile to classic mac os < 1258374328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at apple headers it seems some versions of egcs could < 1258374333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case you're native compiling on mac os < 1258374338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and config.h and bconfig.h can be the same < 1258374340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should be < 1258374359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also some of those defines. I'm a bit unclear on how to test them: < 1258374370 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-141.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258374378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones? < 1258374382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to 1 if you have the ANSI C header files. */ < 1258374382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STDC_HEADERS 1 < 1258374383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1258374398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has them, but what exactly does it test for < 1258374408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it doesn't verify *every* header < 1258374416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strict conformance to ANSI C < 1258374447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it runs a test program designed to break badly in non-ANSI < 1258374469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends on in which way it isn't ANSI. Missing some specific header but otherwise ANSI? < 1258374473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-prototypes? < 1258374488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also: < 1258374491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to empty if `const' does not conform to ANSI C. */ < 1258374491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* #undef const */ < 1258374496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conform in what way? < 1258374523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally (did I mention this already?): < 1258374528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to `unsigned int' if does not define. */ < 1258374529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* #undef size_t */ < 1258374534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't define this < 1258374541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I get size_t from stdlib.h and such < 1258374544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's looking for memchr in string.h, free in stdlib.h, and a sane islower < 1258374549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no sys/types.h < 1258374561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ooh, that's an interesting comment < 1258374578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think probably leaving that as undef is correct, ignoring the details of the comment (the comments are automatically generated) < 1258374604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well basically, stddef.h stdlib.h stdio.h and so all include some internal SizeTDef.h (I think that was the name in MPW) which defines it < 1258374620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it as undef, then < 1258374622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get compiler error if defining that in config.h < 1258374643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from const there is also a similar one for volatile < 1258374658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again I have no clue, but I simply guess that they work < 1258374663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const and volatile should only be compiled to the null string if they're completely broken < 1258374674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, define completely broken < 1258374688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also not null string, that wouldn't work < 1258374690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null comment < 1258374691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would < 1258374696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1258374701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean will null string < 1258374703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""? < 1258374707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, nothing < 1258374710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" is two double quotes < 1258374714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, as in #define volatile < 1258374731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another thing was that I had to define YY_NO_UNISTD_H=1 < 1258374735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on command line < 1258374737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make things work < 1258374740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258374743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and completely broken means that volatile int x; int * volatile y = (int* 0); return !x && !y; causes the compiler to error out < 1258374744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still wanted isatty < 1258374751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "work" is stretching it < 1258374759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and the macro for isatty didn't work < 1258374761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1258374768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before the function using it < 1258374769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an < 1258374774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"extern int isatty(int); < 1258374778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^"// < 1258374785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to define a function for it < 1258374791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258374809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which means fileno will get called. It seems macs *do* happen to have fileno < 1258374826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fileno is not ANSI C < 1258374828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is posix < 1258374834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258374841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have a test for fileno too in config.h, then < 1258374855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no system to verify that on, it is lacking it < 1258374863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh on macs fileno() is a macro < 1258374864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a header < 1258374866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a function < 1258374874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just something like: < 1258374895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define fileno(_f) ((_f)->fileno) < 1258374901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forgot exact wording) < 1258374922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless you explicitly requests a thread safe version, in which case it is a function < 1258374943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should still be checkable < 1258374988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function one is in some non-standard library btw. Not that configure runs on old macs < 1258375153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes -s to apt-get doesn't work with "update"
< 1258375164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's silently ignored) < 1258375228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying thing about sheepshaver: it needs sysctl vm.mmap_min_addr=0 < 1258375328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think autoconf even attempts to support Mac OS 9 < 1258375349 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258375366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. Still, the system headers even have #ifdefs to detect "Visual C++ for NT targeting Macintosh" < 1258375375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, those included with MPW < 1258375396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and egcs both running ported to an MPW tool and running on linux but cross compiling < 1258375465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need some help with makefile here. Generic question I hope: < 1258375482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to set the file type of some files before compiling. Once done it doesn't need to be done again < 1258375489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one go about this < 1258375495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of timestamp file? < 1258375502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that used sometimes, but I have never used it < 1258375516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: timestamps are really difficult to get right < 1258375535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those files generated, or in the distribution? < 1258375537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about those h1-stamp or such sometimes seen in larger autotools projects? < 1258375543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in the dist < 1258375554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't compile them if they aren't set to be TEXT files < 1258375560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for some of them at least < 1258375594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is there any chance they might get set to non-TEXT by mistake? < 1258375596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, syslib.* need to be set to be TEXT and have LF line endings before I can even try to generate CR versions < 1258375621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since this is stored in metadata it would be quite common yes < 1258375622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: syslib.* should be corrected to LF in the distro < 1258375633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, won't help. .3i means nothing to a mac < 1258375633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than by the build process < 1258375642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.i seems to happen to mean something it tries to convert < 1258375646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I mean syslib.3i shouldn't have been distributed with CRLF endings < 1258375646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1258375648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258375652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.i means preprocessed C, normally < 1258375671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mac os 9 at least is smart enough to try to add file types when getting files from outside sources < 1258375673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just get the bit of code that runs tr to also set the metadata to TEXT first? < 1258375674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for common ones < 1258375685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm maybe. < 1258375697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a lot more sense than trying to set it iff it's not already set < 1258375712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if unsetting the filetype doesn't bump the last-modified timestamp < 1258375716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. < 1258375730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to check every time anyway, so why not just set every time? < 1258375759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1258375781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does the CRLF get there to begin with < 1258375791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a mistake in the official tarball < 1258375792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs fixing < 1258375795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is really hard to manage to get CRLF with most *nix editors < 1258375916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was probably editing them when testing on DOS < 1258375922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or they've been that way forever and nobody noticed < 1258375980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258376001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there is any rule in MPW make for "the first source file of the explicit rule"
< 1258376009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do implicit here anyway < 1258376022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is limited to simple suffixes, and they all have different < 1258376027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like .i .3i .4i < 1258376028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258376032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it needs to begin with a dot < 1258376040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get an error about that otherwise < 1258376040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dos2unix $(file $(pcregrep -rl "\r" .) | grep text | cut -d: -f1)
< 1258376051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and incidentally wonders how hard that would have been to do without a CLI < 1258376103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is odd that Translate complained with filename of file when I did: Translate ... < foo > bar < 1258376104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1258376109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it told me foo wasn't a text file < 1258376119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me wonder what sort of mess the MPW shell is capable of < 1258376146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, that accidentally converted inside the repo too < 1258376257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes
< 1258376307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw does darcs really not version empty dirs? < 1258376320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my make system is not yet capable of creating those itself < 1258376324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will need to add that if so < 1258376387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it versions empty dirs < 1258376390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough to check, though < 1258376419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it versions empty dirs just fine < 1258376428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and there is still that about ick_numerals in both cesspool and numerals.... Hm Or aren't both supposed to be linked into libick? < 1258376475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't defined in both < 1258376478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just defined in numerals < 1258376483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but numerals is #included into cesspool < 1258376484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then why the warning < 1258376489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch that hurts < 1258376497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you're compiling and linking numerals, and shouldn't < 1258376512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I am < 1258376514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good catch < 1258376545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1258376554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just checking makefile.am atm < 1258376556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile links both cesspool and numerals < 1258376569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I based it on Makefile.am < 1258376584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's an error in Makefile.am < 1258376611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the list of warnings at the end of http://sprunge.us/SCcB might be interesting (from most recent full build, I prefer incremental, because that way the damn emulator doesn't crash, I have to do full builds on a real mac) < 1258376640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised libyuk compiles < 1258376672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with those warnings right at the bottom, that while loop really does have no body < 1258376681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and those a bit above? < 1258376687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I built those separately < 1258376689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at those now < 1258376732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an issue, it's complaining that there isn't a return statement at the end of the function, but that point in the code's unreachable < 1258376794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm wondering why coopt stuff is even compiled at all, what with mac not supporting that < 1258376819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't run the final pass at the end < 1258376823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can still instrument the code for it < 1258376830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, you wouldn't /want/ to if the instrumentation can't do anything < 1258377145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is even a MakeDepend thingy, Needs to be updated manually it seems < 1258377288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I was reading http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt < 1258377307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noticed the "Secondly make sure TABS are set to 8 characters" < 1258377326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, they are in Firefox by default < 1258377331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, please see clogs logs when ehird responds to your opions on tab < 1258377339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that could be fun < 1258377343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before any further discussion < 1258377441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird (bouncing a conversation through the logs): oil.y is a whole program written in yacc < 1258377446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even lex! < 1258377703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice this thing uses a timestamp file for building folder structure < 1258377716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it was good enough for one of the examples included with MPW.. < 1258377969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders what'll happen if Plan 9 is ported to more than 9 architectures
< 1258378247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... ehird's strawmanning quite a bit in that log < 1258378255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because I wasn't there to explain what I actually meant, I don't think it was deliberate < 1258378271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you did manage a circular argument however. < 1258378278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1258378293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with ehird's opinion here really < 1258378294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my argument was tab = 8 for historical reasons and because everything does that < 1258378299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, they're too wide to be used for indentation < 1258378304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I argued that in the other direction < 1258378308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, everything doesn't. There was plenty of examples against it < 1258378320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you said that tabs being 4 was a pythonism < 1258378325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was also wrong < 1258378327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1258378337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you haven't provided any arguments for why it shouldn't be changed, except that you needed 8-sized tabs at work < 1258378365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: because changing when nobody else has just makes you look silly < 1258378372 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you seriously think tables are useful < 1258378377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of people have changed now, and they still all look silly < 1258378412 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean look silly? < 1258378412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the thing about my data being 6 or 7 chars so I picked tab = 8 is wrong < 1258378420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised that that wouldn't work as it wouldn't give enough horizontal spacing < 1258378433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I put three spaces before the output so as to push the ends of the data field past the next tabstop < 1258378436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give me a bit more spacing < 1258378479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever, it's clear you could've used a program for it < 1258378492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yes unix even has one < 1258378496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :col or something iirc? < 1258378505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no not that < 1258378506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: highly surprising :P < 1258378508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one however < 1258378514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not col < 1258378604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was output from a Perl script I had about an hour to write < 1258378648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it was what I wrote to replace the elisp CGI script that not only needed manual intervention, but had no reason to a) be a CGI script, or b) be written in elisp < 1258378773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I failed to port CLC-INTERCAL even to DJGPP, porting it to Mac is therefore likely to be even harder < 1258378779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old Mac, that is < 1258378858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't like indent=4 tab=9 < 1258378862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indent=4 tab=8 < 1258378865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer indent=2 tab=8 < 1258378868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to save horizontal space < 1258378875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1258378879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent=4 tab=8 is what ick uses, though < 1258378885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always has done < 1258378889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uncommon.c uses indent=2 < 1258378889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, for generated code < 1258378896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's because I wrote it < 1258378897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1258378908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you can see which bits of code I've edited < 1258378909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said the thing about generated code after (at least on this side) < 1258378914 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258378915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by looking where the indent is 2 and where the indent is 4 < 1258378940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, normally I don't approve of mixing indentation styles within a project, but ick was doing it anyway and it's nice to let it be different from everything else like that < 1258378944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if you edited just a few lines in a long function? did you change indention for those lines or the whole function or the whole file? < 1258378946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it makes it particularly harder to read < 1258378949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for the block < 1258378960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err as in inside { } for if? < 1258378962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258378962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1258378970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put an indent-2 block inside an indent-4 function just fine < 1258378972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one style per file at least < 1258378973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1258378977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I don't advocate this as good practice at all < 1258378981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advocate it as icky practice < 1258378994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not something I'd do on any other project, unless it was similarly insane < 1258379053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in reference to the log: the DNA Maze indentation was, as you say, selected to annoy fans of all indentation styles equally) < 1258379081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is HackEgo's qdb online anywhere/ < 1258379130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the reason for checking for any / in argv[0] is that if it doesn't have one, most systems would look for it in PATH, and if it does have one, it must be the true absolute or relative path < 1258379197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it was column < 1258379200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command i mean < 1258379202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :column -t < 1258379204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be usefu < 1258379208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful* < 1258379275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :history mentions BSD4.3, not in POSIX < 1258379424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I need to logread more often < 1258379500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 323-bit processors are a great idea < 1258379507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 2^323-1 a Mersenne prime? < 1258379540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why? < 1258379580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I vaguely want someone to make a processor which uses one's complement and for which the number of possible values in an int (i.e. UINT_MAX+1) is a prime number < 1258379602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, where -0 is the normal zero, and +0 is a trap representation < 1258379657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going off to do some teaching, I'll be back in about 3 hours < 1258379706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you do something strange with stdout in ick? I need to do printf debugging < 1258379716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remember some freopen stuff
< 1258379721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes/quote.db is online in the sense that it's current, but it's a binary sqlite3 file, so that's maybe not convenient always. < 1258379734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1258379735 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ help.txt \ huh \ karma \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.15984 < 1258379740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls quotes/ < 1258379742 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote.db \ quotes.db < 1258379747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1258379749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258379753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -l quotes/ < 1258379754 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258379760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l quotes/ < 1258379761 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 16 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 13312 Nov 16 13:56 quote.db \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Nov 16 13:56 quotes.db < 1258379773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote.db; I'm not sure what the empty quotes.db is. < 1258379786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run du -bsh quotes/quote.db < 1258379787 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13K quotes/quote.db < 1258379795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sqlite3 quotes/quote.db VACUUM < 1258379796 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258379797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run du -bsh quotes/quote.db < 1258379798 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13K quotes/quote.db < 1258379800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258379809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type sqlite3 < 1258379810 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite3 is /usr/bin/sqlite3 < 1258379851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he does some auto-vacuuming there. < 1258379862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manually vacuuming the file I downloaded didn't change the size at all, at least. < 1258380207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way it seems MPW tries to auto detect indention. In uncommon.c it gave me tab and idention width of 2 < 1258380217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a file with depth 4 it used that < 1258380556 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258380556 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258380850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, my version now looks for when guessdir in uncommon.c is correct. Anyway the check for nix was wrong < 1258380858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always checked on an ending null byte < 1258380884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually it didn't check, it just overwrote that null byte < 1258380885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258380897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (buf2[i] == '\0') { < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (buf2[i-1] != ICK_PATHSEP) < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : buf2[i++] = ICK_PATHSEP; < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } else if (buf2[i] != ICK_PATHSEP) { < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : buf2[i++] = ICK_PATHSEP; < 1258380901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1258380904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to work < 1258380914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I'm not sure that always will be \0) < 1258380958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the code working on argv seems broken to me < 1258380966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258381353 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258381353 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258382597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm taking the freedom of adding a new env variable like CC for use on mac < 1258382605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be something like LD < 1258383636 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-7-251.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258383879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw clock_gettime() is in libc.so on freebsd iirc < 1258383881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not librt < 1258383891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that seems like a bug in your perpet.c < 1258383912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have: < 1258383915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef HAVE_CLOCK_GETTIME /* implies -lrt is available */ < 1258383915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sourcefile, yukdebug||yukprofile?" -lyuk -lrt ":" ", < 1258383915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1258383915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sourcefile, yukdebug||yukprofile?" -lyuk ":" ", < 1258383915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1258384318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I get build errors for sort.i < 1258384412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see http://sprunge.us/XCQY (note: probably CR line endings) < 1258384416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the paste I mean) < 1258384494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and the source differs slightly < 1258384613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, here is the diff http://sprunge.us/QHgb?diff < 1258384707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it seems -c affects what is generated < 1258384708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1258384721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the difference is just in comments when both use -c < 1258384725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still doesn't compile < 1258384738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, top and bottom comments) < 1258384759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so either I hit a compiler bug[1] or I hit a compiler bug[2] < 1258384762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] In ick < 1258384767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2] In MrC < 1258386009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1258388658 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258388670 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258389870 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258390107 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258390185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258390196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn that was close < 1258390210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just checking if you were idle < 1258390264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, see: alcohol is good for you! ;D < 1258390367 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-29-15.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258390605 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258390861 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258391211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: details? < 1258391219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for what bit? < 1258391228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler bug < 1258391237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1258391239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, see http://sprunge.us/XCQY (note: probably CR line endings) < 1258391242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, here is the diff http://sprunge.us/QHgb?diff < 1258391242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258391258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that diff turned out to be -c vs. not -c < 1258391271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no actual difference and it doesn't work either way < 1258391310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as for your question about stdout, weird stuff happens to at least one of the stdio streams, but stderr should be fine to use < 1258391397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that "constant initialiser expected" error looks wrong < 1258391400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the code looks right < 1258391409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in standard C, there's no reason why you can't initialise a variable to an expression < 1258391432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. < 1258391456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose we can work around that to help out broken compilers < 1258391465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or just not use the -a option when compiling) < 1258391472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't use -a < 1258391475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used: < 1258391479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e then < 1258391480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-b -c < 1258391484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were the only ones < 1258391485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, strange < 1258391493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the JIC stuff being linked in then? < 1258391503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same happens on *nix though < 1258391514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe due to being based on 0.29 not current darcs? < 1258391530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that wouldn't do it < 1258391539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be some statement in a program that causes JIC mode to be turned on < 1258391547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure which it is offhand < 1258391549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pit/sort.i < 1258391600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I am able to get gcc to spit warnings about not being computable at load time. Possibly related? < 1258391602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort.c: In function 'main': < 1258391602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort.c:666: warning: initializer element is not computable at load time < 1258391602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort.c:666: warning: initializer element is not computable at load time < 1258391602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort.c:1419: warning: initializer element is not computable at load time < 1258391604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1258391605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of it < 1258391610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely related < 1258391622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, needs -ansi -pedantic though < 1258391637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, it's not a standard violation < 1258391646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I noticed MrC sometimes got errors a few lines off < 1258391650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because -pedantic says "ISO C89 forbids" for those < 1258391659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened on yacc/lex code at least < 1258391698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm also able to get icc to output warnings about something similar < 1258391706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort.c(451): warning #589: transfer of control bypasses initialization of: < 1258391706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable "icd" (declared at line 665) < 1258391706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable "icd" (declared at line 1418) < 1258391706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable "icd" (declared at line 1434) < 1258391707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what's happening < 1258391707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1258391718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258391719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints rudimentary jic info for anything < 1258391726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1258391730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the more jic-requiring features are used, the more info it adds < 1258391739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1258391746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is jic < 1258391756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just-in-case compilation < 1258391769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it compiles syntax errors into table lookups just in case the statement is redefined later < 1258391863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258391915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting. One of apple's debuggers refuses to run if a valid printer isn't selected in the printer chooser thing < 1258391918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thingy* < 1258391924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why < 1258391937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258392002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway now the emulator crashed again sig < 1258392004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh* < 1258392119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, so that jic stuff. how to work around it (or whatever) < 1258392138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, put placeholders into the array then copy the actual values over them < 1258392173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be kind-of annoying to write, though < 1258392182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure I actually understand what is going on in there. As in: what the heck it is complaining about < 1258392203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's complaining about initialising a struct element to a value that isn't a constant < 1258392215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is illegal for a static variable, but fine for an auto one < 1258392249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258392280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compile-time initialization can only be done using constant expressions; run-time initialization can be done using any expression at all. The Old C restriction, that only simple variables (not arrays, structures or unions) could be initialized at run time, has been lifted." < 1258392296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, once it was illegal... < 1258392340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is relevant to your problem < 1258392346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that explains a lot < 1258392355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be quite a bit before C89, I imagine < 1258392355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/chapter6/initialization.html) < 1258392362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's no reason not to support it too < 1258392471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that one applies to MrC it seems < 1258392478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there is some semi hidden option for it < 1258392608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay saying -ansi on made it repot lots more errors... Like that the , operator is not allowed in constant expressions. I think it got seriously confused there < 1258392626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that book is also old, it's labeled as "only historic interest" < 1258392661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from 1991) < 1258392745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you find the material useful and happen to encounter one of the authors, it is unlikely that they will refuse offers to buy them a drink. You may therefore like to consider this material .drinkware.. (Offer void where prohibited by law, in which case fawning and flattery may be substituted.)" :D < 1258393183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1258393369 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deleted_pages < 1258393435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: well naturally that wouldn't be in the main namespace if it existed < 1258393540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, codewarrior's compiler complained just as loudly about that btw < 1258393583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's "the other mac compiler" basically) < 1258393640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: you are also failing at a meta-joke, because it hasn't even been deleted ;D < 1258393657 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humph < 1258393728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list does exist, it's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Special:Undelete < 1258393731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's only viewable to admins < 1258393734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and too long to really be useful < 1258393799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, there is also http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= < 1258393812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, codewarrior also dislikes some newlines in strings < 1258393812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1258393833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a list of deletions, not a list of deleted apges < 1258393835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pages < 1258393848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ick_createdata icd[]={ < 1258393848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {32,0,0,{0,0},(ick_lose(IE000, ick_lineno, " PLEASE NOTE END OF CODE FOR .2 = #1\n\ < 1258393848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "),0)}, < 1258393848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {16, 0, 0, {NULL, NULL}, 0} < 1258393848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }; < 1258393849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1258393854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it complains about the line < 1258393857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, nearly the same thing ;) < 1258393858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't say where exactly < 1258393864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258393868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it dislikes that a LOT < 1258393882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: backslash-newline should be deleted by the preprocessor before the compiler even sees the code < 1258393891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, at this rate we're going to need a custom preprocessor < 1258393901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah so I guess it is the same thing as not constant < 1258393912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just said "illegal constant initialiser" < 1258393919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pointed to the line with ick_lose < 1258393926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with z < 1258393932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(initializer) < 1258393938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi autoconf, you're supposed to sort all this stuff out by magic! < 1258393947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this one too? < 1258393975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was making a general statement < 1258393983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe it's ever claimed to be able to magically fix generated code < 1258393992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway why is there such a strange newline in that? < 1258393994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would reject stock Mac cpp as broken? < 1258394004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because there was a newline in the original source < 1258394005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems completely pointless < 1258394016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to print a syntax error verbatim if it would run < 1258394019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok. Anyway it doesn't seem to be preprocessor related < 1258394028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it on one line still gives the error < 1258394036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, how did you change that to one line? < 1258394038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just now it points to the right place of the line, < 1258394047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be "\tPLEASE NOTE END OF CODE FOR .2 + #1\n" on one line < 1258394049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, backspace to remove the embedded newline < 1258394050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258394054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with a literal tab rather than \t < 1258394069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then saved the .c I just edited < 1258394073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: backslash-newline is equivalent to the null string < 1258394074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then tried to compile again < 1258394078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you remove the final backslash? < 1258394100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes. the issue again is the same as with the not constant initialiser above < 1258394101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same issue < 1258394108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different exact circumstances < 1258394118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the ick_lose call embedded there < 1258394128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the call fixes it for that one < 1258394131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1258394136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258394151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, the issue isn't the backslash-newline, it's the function call in an initialiser < 1258394157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258394177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just codewarrior sucks at telling you where exactly the error happened. in that it is worse than gcc even < 1258394199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while MPW is rather good at it (just getting the line number wrong a bit sometimes) < 1258394243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw why does yuk require that it is run directly from ick? < 1258394252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means it won't work on mac < 1258394257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I think it could in theory < 1258394259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: copyright reasons < 1258394266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, remember now < 1258394271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go around linking GPL code with non-GPL code and leaving it lying around on someone else's hard disk < 1258394290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you overwrite the file with zeros once the debugging is done? ;P < 1258394317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258394332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you overwrite your browser cache with zeros as soon as you stop looking at the page? < 1258394337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember also that there are some filesystems that don't overwrite data ever, rather they try to keep the history < 1258394339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's probably some sort of fair use argument involved < 1258394344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can go back to any instant < 1258394362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until you reach the end of the circular buffer that the whole fs is basically) < 1258394377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which case iirc you have to decide what to keep) < 1258394582 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258397601 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1258397753 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-7-251.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258399559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you send SIGINT to an MPW application? < 1258399562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's possible at all? < 1258399674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not that I know of < 1258399674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1258399681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I got some stuff to build as SIOW < 1258399685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was reading through the docs < 1258399696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what docs. I need docs < 1258399703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the C-INTERCAL docs < 1258399715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258399717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I noticed they talked about C-c (UNIX/Linux) and C-BREAK (Windows/DOS) < 1258399725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was wondering what the Mac equivalent was < 1258399737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I doubt that is possible at all on classic mac < 1258399761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258399773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for OS X, it would be control-C (not command-C), right? < 1258399786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ask ehird not me < 1258399792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on os x you wouldn't need MPW < 1258399798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1258399801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck cfunge builds on os x < 1258399802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a mildly unrelated question < 1258399983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, atm this diff "works for me" in uncommon.c http://sprunge.us/YSeQ Until you have a patch for proper doing this in config.h that is what I use < 1258399999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that only fixes the case of guessdir being correct < 1258400042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suggest you read the changes in it however. < 1258400054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my perpet.c changes I guess I need to pastebin < 1258400104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is currently this: http://sprunge.us/WGSL < 1258400115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much work in progress < 1258400139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure getenv even has a sensible meaning in MPW... < 1258400142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258400155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably it gets vars set in the mpw shell or such) < 1258400205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I should merge the SIOW stuff into that < 1258400267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, other downside with tabs btw: when diff adds the +/- in front they look wrong if used for alignment like you did in some cases < 1258400281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still works for indention levels, just not for adjustment) < 1258400304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff has an option to add tabs always after + / - for that reason, although I don't use it < 1258400320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that seems it would break patch? < 1258400332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, patch can be weirdly tolerant < 1258400335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably just for human reading < 1258400341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff isn't always used with patch < 1258400500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, any comments on the changes in those files? < 1258400512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, I haven't read them thoroughly < 1258400524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build system is still somewhat insane, no clean target. and I use ::src: as ICKINCLUDEDIR atm < 1258400536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, the find_and_fopen stuff needs a rewrite < 1258400919 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258402803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thank you for signing up to give us early feedback on Google Wave. We're happy to give you access to Google Wave and are enlisting your help to improve the product." < 1258402806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue; i already have it < 1258403566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google wave? < 1258403576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is still in beta. but what is it < 1258403579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your eyes are not deceiving you? < 1258403588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just google for it, I can't be arsed to explain. < 1258403593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that any of the explanations are any good. < 1258403750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not even beta < 1258403753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "limited preview" < 1258403889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wave.google.com/help/wave/images/meeting_notes.jpg <-- haha, how macabre if you read the list at the end < 1258403924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERADICATE < 1258403960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the stuff above is quite nasty too < 1258403975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(conidering jimmy might be the source of that smell at the end!) < 1258404072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, proggit is intermittently erroring < 1258404102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An error occurred while processing your request. Reference #97.a6a99d50.1258404091.0" < 1258404126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was retyped, because I left my mouse at home, and while mice are bad for some things they're excellent for web browsing, including copying info out of a web browser < 1258404128 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggit is written in python < 1258404175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointing that out can only be leading to a troll < 1258404179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('python code is unstable, hurr') < 1258404188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you can write unstable code in any language < 1258404195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Subtle Cough, which isn't powerful enough < 1258404200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly a few of the other esolangs < 1258404215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey read the comments ais made on your reply to his tab rant! < 1258404217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny < 1258404229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a real nice flamewar right now < 1258404232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but I'm not angry right now and i do not want to be angry < 1258404254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1258404257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird there is no action when you do it when the other person left < 1258404260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm reading it anyway < 1258404262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lets make you angry < 1258404266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the sort of argument that can easily be had by bouncing comments off logs < 1258404275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as both people end up taking each other out of context because logs do that < 1258404280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't bother replying to any arguments ais523 makes when i say my responses, unless the ones I logread are logical < 1258404287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, based on strong historical precedence, they won't be < 1258404288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "haskell sucks and go's installer sucks and you are young and stupid" <-- angry now? < 1258404296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not yet! < 1258404297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the anger. < 1258404387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HULK SMASH < 1258404392 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell does not suck. It is 'The perfect advanced programming language for the productive factorial developer' < 1258404394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1258404406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a star wars reference, not a hulk one. < 1258404406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a reference you probably don't get < 1258404407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with every down arrow i press on this log, I dread more and more I will hit idiocy < 1258404410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's what angry people don't < 1258404414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that I made) < 1258404425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some of it's idiotic, some is simple corrections, some of it may even be reasonable < 1258404441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with the first part at least, preëmptively. < 1258404448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell does not suck. It is 'The perfect advanced programming language for the productive factorial developer' <-- I was joking... < 1258404456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was he < 1258404463 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, -_- < 1258404476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:00 * ais523 dos2unix $(file $(pcregrep -rl "\r" .) | grep text | cut -d: -f1) < 1258404476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:11 and incidentally wonders how hard that would have been to do without a CLI < 1258404476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[…] < 1258404476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh good point < 1258404476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:55:46 whoops, that accidentally converted inside the repo too < 1258404477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just drag the repo dir to the Shoot Self in Foot application < 1258404496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: luckily darcs stores the patch infos as binaries < 1258404505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can reconstruct the entire repo from them in about a minute < 1258404517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I still had the list of files in scrollback, I could just have reversed the change directly < 1258404517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:09 * ais523 vaguely wonders what'll happen if Plan 9 is ported to more than 9 architectures < 1258404517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use alphabetical chars already < 1258404518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what command is it? < 1258404521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though they only have 0-8 < 1258404536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the first one ehird quoted directly above < 1258404549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one to convert CRLF to LF recursively in a directory, while avoiding binary files < 1258404569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I should probably have checked whether "text" was in the filename or not, but I'd already looked at the file list to change and that wasn't a problem < 1258404572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if it had been ported to more than the size of the alphabet plus 10? < 1258404582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe !c < 1258404582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of weird I didn't notice the files in the repo when I reviewed the list... < 1258404585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 36 architectures? go onto capitals < 1258404587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62 compilers < 1258404593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 62 architectures, congratulate yourself and retire < 1258404597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258404646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if you want to reply do it slowly and completely because I'm not interested in a flamewar. < 1258404646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:31:34 my argument was tab = 8 for historical reasons and because everything does that < 1258404646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good start, at least. My argument was that no, the historical reasons aren't that: it's "insert spaces until the current position is a multiple of 8". Not the same thing, and it incidentally makes it a bitch for alignment that way, which nicely defeats some of your other arguments. And everything doesn't do that; you say it does, but dismiss all counterexamples as being irrelevant because they're just because the world is broken or something. This is irrati < 1258404660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm aware that tabs move to a multiple < 1258404660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irrational. < 1258404665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd mentioned it last time, with the tables < 1258404671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz, one line replies < 1258404675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise this'll degenerate into a flamewaar < 1258404677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flamewar < 1258404684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(↑ i have tested this theory quite a few times) < 1258404691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab = 8 is shorthand for "tabs move to a multiple of 8", just like tab = 4 is shorthand for "tabs move to a multiple of 4", there that's one line < 1258404804 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster mine was a joke too < 1258404805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it makes alignment awkward with such multiple-tabs, which eliminates those of your arguments predicated on easy alignment with tabs. < 1258404817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can I diverge from the topic of whether "tabs" SHOULD be 8? < 1258404828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd like to have a related, short debate so I can figure out exactly what argument we're having. < 1258404830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's fine < 1258404834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile, mhm < 1258404843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it's because I haven't had a good flamewar in ages and was deliberately being provocative < 1258404844 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not get it? < 1258404872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so was he < 1258404872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, -_- < 1258404872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 04:54:00 * ais523 dos2unix $(file $(pcregrep -rl "\r" .) | grep text | cut -d: -f1) < 1258404872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, oh good point < 1258404880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile, your reply to it was a bit late < 1258404887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that bit of code's going to end up posted all over the Internet... < 1258404889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile, and yes I was too tried to get it < 1258404894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I need to sleep very soon < 1258404900 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is very basic try again < 1258404989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Let's pretend the "tabs" in my world are called floobs. A floob, in code, represents one level of indentation; no visual aspect is implied. The normal user will set one floob to display as N spaces; this way, code can be as compact or as dense as their preference. Obviously, we should use spaces, which are the width of one normal character, for alignment in such a system. We can, in fact, use floobs past the start of the line. For instance (note: plea < 1258404989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't align comments like this, it's evil) (.=space) < 1258404989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo().{ < 1258404990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar;//.abc,.def < 1258404993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://.ghi: < 1258404995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://.code; < 1258404997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://.blah < 1258404999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258405001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*please < 1258405008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We can see that no matter how many spaces we display floob as, everything aligns and indents properly. < 1258405035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Completely independent from the issue of what a tab should be; do you agree that this system is nice and provides good benefits while still being clear-cut, simple and allowing alignment? < 1258405042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A floob is one level of indentation, a space is used for alignment. < 1258405079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd be happy for a character like that to be added to a Unicode; I just don't think it's the same character as tab. Also, you'd have to add support for it to a lot of applications (i.e. configurable width; most won't do that by default), and you'll have to correct the 99% of programmers who ignore the guidelines and just use whatever lines up on their screen < 1258405088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please let us ignore the character tab. < 1258405108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which makes 90% of your comment irrelevant. This is a *separate* thing. Could you reply again to floobs, ignoring compatibility and tabs? < 1258405142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that writing all those floobs out would be a bit repetitive in such a case; why not have increase-indent and decrease-indent characters instead, which more closely conveys the semantics of what you're trying to do, and have them render as variable width like above? < 1258405168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because that wouldn't be a regular character. Anyway, I am not denying that there are better systems. < 1258405181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: However, do you agree that the advantages of this system over using a fixed number of spaces for indentation are clear? < 1258405211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily backspace and insert indentations without editor hacks, it's easy to adjust code for the situation, it's easy to adjust for your personal preference, it saves bytes, and fundamentally it's just more semantic. < 1258405218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have indents being indents instead of the "inlined" spaces, so to speak. < 1258405228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree there are advantages; there are also a couple of disadvantages (mostly, the difficulty of enforcing it), and it doesn't allow block-indentation easily (but then neither does spaces to indent) < 1258405244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please define block-indentation. < 1258405297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you want to put a new if { } around your code (say in C; generalise to other languages as necessary), you have to reindent everything inside the block, which is a real pain to do in an editor not designed for that sort of thing < 1258405318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, of course, that is up to the editor. < 1258405337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, so we agree that floob is a good thing (maybe not a perfect thing, but a good thing, and definitely good for indentation). < 1258405350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please let me type another line. < 1258405356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did < 1258405431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To reply to your first response: Let us assume (please do not jump beyond what I say just yet) that floob actually exists. Even if most programs could only display floobs as a fixed number of spaces, this is not too much of a big deal (assuming the amount of spaces isn't totally created). The programs that can do it can do it, and the rest still work. Let us assume this world exists; do you agree that floobs would still be a good thing? < 1258405481 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258405484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because people with nonfloobified editors would try to edit floobish files and cause a huge mess which was partly floobed and partly nonfloobed < 1258405530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: pong? < 1258405546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: did you answer? where did you get your nick < 1258405552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258405553 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: just wondering if you were here ... did you see my Befunge program to detect version (year)? < 1258405558 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just chose it < 1258405561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I take it that facsimile != faxathia?) < 1258405566 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1258405571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258405606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Nope, haven't been following today's goings-on < 1258405609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see too, but a different thing < 1258405616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Let us assume that there is a single, obvious keystroke to insert a floob, and all editors handle them as single characters displayed as N spaces; quite a high number, more than "most people" would use, so it is quite recognisable. Let us also assume that there are convenient reindentation programs available to fix the mistakes, and also that people unaccustomed to code formats already mess up with space indentation, using different widths (or even fl < 1258405616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree now that floob would still be a good thing? < 1258405625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or even floobs!). < 1258405626 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it was like two days ago < 1258405640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't been following this channel much at all lately :-P < 1258405659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1258405660 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Deewiant thinks we're idiots < 1258405683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1258405683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i saw him say once!) < 1258405688 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1258405709 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was partly due to us being idiots < 1258405774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: assuming you could do something about Python and other similar languages (which cannot be automatically reindented), and that keystroke actually inserted a floob most of the time rather than being rebound to something else by editors that assumed nobody would want to type them, now it's starting to be a bit more reasonable < 1258405778 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think #esoteric is the wrong place to call anybody idiot / genius, we're just "weird" ;-) < 1258405813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, let's just assume the reindentation program changed the right number of spaces at the start of a line (for a configurable amount) to floobs; that would work even on Python. < 1258405822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: More reasonable? < 1258405882 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone want to define "floob" for me? < 1258405882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly more, although you still aren't solving the problem of what happens if the Python code's passed between two incompetent developers with different floobwidths before anyone thinks to reindent, which probably would happen far too often < 1258405916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: a hypothetical character which is similar to, say, left-tab from Word (and which is not really the same as tab from ASCII) < 1258405935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1258405938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not bring tab into this at all < 1258405942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ignore us < 1258405944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are having a trivial debate < 1258405953 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? Tab is tasty ;-) < 1258405959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: please go away. thx < 1258405964 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258405968 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258405971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the more you say things about its relation tab, the more you lock in your current definition, making it impossible for me to try and convince you otherwise; in which case why should i bother debating? < 1258405972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*relation to < 1258406004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was trying to define for Rugxulo; and this conversation is useful, it's likely to identify the boundaries between a floob and a tab, at least < 1258406009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should found #esoteric-tab for this stuff? < 1258406030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my job is to convince you that they don't exist, if you casually explain that the boundary exists, even if this is your current opinion, this definitely does make my job harder < 1258406073 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#flooby-wooby-funtime < 1258406135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, anyway < 1258406165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the incompetent's floobwidth difference; sure, but it turns out that code written by such people tends to be of low quality anyway < 1258406172 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey does the name "tab" come from "table" btw? < 1258406176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes < 1258406177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258406180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, i very much doubt that went through such a situation, < 1258406182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would come out better than before < 1258406184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "tabulation", which is related to "table" < 1258406187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can we agree on that? < 1258406190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabula rasa < 1258406195 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258406220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think I can agree with you personally, but I think the majority of businesses would incorrectly disagree, and they tend to have quite a large influence < 1258406251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let us assume that in this world people vehemently disagree about floobs vs spaces, do different things, and the world goes on anyway. :-P < 1258406315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok? < 1258406323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is getting somewhere, i swear < 1258406330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, how reasonable now? < 1258406371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're asking me to make a lot of assumptions; and in a world where there was vehement disagreement, I'd imagine that using either would be frowned upon depending on who your coworkers were, meaning that the choice would be made for you < 1258406383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's assume the project is non-corporate. < 1258406409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and i'm asking you to make assumptions to show that floobs are good in such a world, then deconstruct that world to try and convince you of its identicality (or closeness) to the real world < 1258406455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are a huge number of assumptions already; the editor one seems rather unlike the real world already (what does pressing tab do in a form field of a browser, for instance?) < 1258406460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: irrelevant < 1258406462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, that's for later < 1258406466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't have two arguments at once < 1258406473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really, it's in the list of assumptions you've already asked me to make < 1258406478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258406480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a fake world < 1258406489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its relation to the real world is not being discussed now < 1258406491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, do you agree that in such a world, floobs are preferable to spaces for indentation? for projects you have control over. < 1258406523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I have a floobified editor, yes, I think so < 1258406544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even if others who may want to contribute don't? since they'll just see it as 8 spaces, and still know they're floobs < 1258406558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with perhaps a quick command to turn their mistakes into floobs required) < 1258406606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you already asked me to assume that floobs rendered reasonably on the majority of editors; I don't consider 8 spaces reasonable for languages that tend to indent heavilly < 1258406641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not be ideal, but it's certainly workable < 1258406646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, i can almost code with ed < 1258406654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, let us assume that the majority of coders do not have screens as tiny as yours. :-P (note: this is true in both worlds) < 1258406666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by assume i'm really just stating axioms about the world < 1258406687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not quite true; my screen's relatively large, and as a result I like to fit two files side by side. It comes to about 166 characters wide, which neatly fits two 80-column files side by side < 1258406693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively large? < 1258406696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude. < 1258406697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1258406709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only computers with screens lower-res than yours are shitty, shitty netbooks < 1258406711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're not much lower < 1258406717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1280x800? 1024x768 is the usual resolution, AFAIR < 1258406724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1258406728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:25] ais523: ehird: 1280x800? 1024x768 is the usual resolution, AFAIR < 1258406730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: behold < 1258406739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I won't even get into most people, but definitely not for coders. < 1258406746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely, definitely, supremely doubly-absolutely not. < 1258406753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I thought you set your font size to about twice what I set mine to, so there's probably more columns on my screen than on yours with typical settings < 1258406776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many columns do you get? < 1258406797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :226 with some padding at the left and right (something like slightly below 20px) < 1258406798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1258406804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the font i use for code < 1258406812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 166 at about 9px; wow how big is your screen?! < 1258406819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1680x1050 < 1258406829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "normal" iMac res until the latest update < 1258406833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must measure fonts in a completely different unit to me, then < 1258406841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as those numbers just don't match up with each other < 1258406846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [21:25] ais523: ehird: 1280x800? 1024x768 is the usual resolution, AFAIR <-- *blink* < 1258406851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12pt at ~100ppi < 1258406857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even run sheepshaver at 1280x800 < 1258406859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258406861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not < 1258406863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ~16px < 1258406872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1200x820 < 1258406874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1258406877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't look big to me, though < 1258406879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I use for sheepshaaver < 1258406885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it looks like regular english text < 1258406890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x800 is a good screen res for embedding 1024x768 VMs and still having room for window decoration, if you hide the panels < 1258406903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1258406919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floob < 1258406925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258406927 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258406929 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge < 1258406942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rugxglo: shut up; irc client: fuck you < 1258406943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258406944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was a weird reaction... < 1258406944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Funge you, floob!" < 1258406953 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258406954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rugxulo < 1258406959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258406959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's up with your client? < 1258406974 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258406979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258406982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258406984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: what's up with your client? < 1258406991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can assure you that programmers use a bigger resolution than yours. < 1258406994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost all. < 1258406995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1680x1050 is a typical desktop res < 1258406996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258407001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least almost all that matter. < 1258407003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a laptop res is often a bit smaller < 1258407008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1024 x 768 is the desktop screen here, when it's been cable-hacked to actually show anything < 1258407009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1280x1024 used to be rather typical < 1258407015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *used to* yes < 1258407016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1024x768 is just ridiculous < 1258407017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258407023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PROGRAMMERS ARE NOT NORMAL PEOPLE < 1258407024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ibook is 800x600 < 1258407027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that used to be normal too < 1258407029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you didn't notice... < 1258407035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is in a CS department, the computers are standard dual-boot Windows/Linux < 1258407041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ehird: 1024 x 768 is the desktop screen here, when it's been cable-hacked to actually show anything" <-- cable hacked? < 1258407043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed for programmers < 1258407052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're set up by an incompetent bureauocracy < 1258407059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bureaucracy < 1258407067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's something wrong with the video driver, the officially-mandated fix is to swap to a crappier cable that puts fewer demands on it, or something < 1258407073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on a tiny budget < 1258407087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cable to the monitor? huh < 1258407091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about as stupid as Ubuntu permanently blacklisting the pc speaker kernel module to stop the beeping on shutdown < 1258407093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on your laptop? < 1258407098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on the desktop < 1258407101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway < 1258407105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wow now that is madness < 1258407111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll just say that – since I'm bored — < 1258407121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway 1024 x 768 can't be a desktop these days < 1258407130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even less than what I had 5 years ago < 1258407134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is 1024x768 now
< 1258407139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years ago I had 1280x1024 < 1258407151 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"old" 2002 PC, though < 1258407152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still shocked that modern computers can't all be down-ressed to 640x480 < 1258407162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually hm < 1258407166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024x768 has a distinctly old-fashioned feel to it nowadays, yes. Especially since laptops went so widescreeny; the iBook is 1024x768. < 1258407169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have been 6 years ago < 1258407169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am I going to ensure portability now? use 320x240, which /does/ seem to work on all computers? < 1258407173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 1280x1024 < 1258407182 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320x240? isn't that modex? < 1258407189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes < 1258407198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm still shocked that modern computers can't all be down-ressed to 640x480 <-- that would be required for boot right? < 1258407208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, why do you need such a low resolution at all < 1258407214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, no, computers can boot in other resolutions nowadays < 1258407215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the native res of your TFT < 1258407221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, normal PCs don't < 1258407224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my experience < 1258407230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258407231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs do < 1258407233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but while I was growing up, if you wanted to write a full-screen program at a fixed res, you'd make it 640x480 because you knew everyone could set their screen to that < 1258407234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's macs < 1258407237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the fake world I showed is pretty close to the real world. Sure, it's more crufty... and it doesn't work perfectly... but there is wide support for adjustable tabs, and if you use them right it isn't such a big deal. I think that, based on the goodness of flubs, and the relative closeness of the fake world to the real (especially since people who'd contribute to the kind of projects that ours are tend to be intelligent people who care about this sort < 1258407237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff) using tabs (flubs) when the community around a language isn't against it is a good idea. (so pretty much C and Go). The only real reason not to is an irrational devotion to historical reasons. Are you an extreme conservative? If not, join us. < 1258407245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't write apps that require a fixed res < 1258407247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sort of stuff < 1258407253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that breaks windowed mode badly < 1258407254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is back when Windows was the only PC OS anyone had heard of outside programming circles) < 1258407257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1258407270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I used to < 1258407272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any app wanting fixed resolution for either the screen or it's window < 1258407273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BROKEN < 1258407278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was younger and less good at programming then < 1258407295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, when I was younger I used to poke around in memory to turn caps lock on < 1258407300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just use toupper on input < 1258407308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would use xset led < 1258407312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *shudder* < 1258407318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at me I'm a unix elitist blah blah blah feel bad. < 1258407319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1258407327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a while before I learnt good programming practice < 1258407328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should reply to my comment with a total dismissal so i can get onto flaming < 1258407333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I learnt about portability the hard way < 1258407336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I have progamatically set it from Delphi once < 1258407345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make me a unix elitist < 1258407370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he's a Linux 64-bit elitist, get it right ;-) < 1258407384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, floobs* < 1258407388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, I got distracted; and if you want a flamy answer, then if we're going to replace the traditional indentation styles, we may as well introduce indent and dedent characters, which actually solve most of these problems < 1258407390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wrote "flubs" < 1258407395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that trivial to make heavily-prettified-by-a-proliferation-of-manually-painted-bitmaps based "user interfaces" that are resolution-independent; quite a lot of games have difficulties running in resolutions they haven't anticipated. < 1258407396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(above) < 1258407399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll floob YOUR MOM. < 1258407401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1258407403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm surprised you didn't start a second flamewar about Go there < 1258407404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1258407411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least, maybe, you're more accepting of those who use tabs < 1258407415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about Go to really have an opinion < 1258407424 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bets AnMaster's mom ain't that old
< 1258407427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good enough for me; I don't really care what you use as long as you understand why I use tabs < 1258407432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, now I think it's based on a deluded view of reality rather than just stupidity < 1258407437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe, an excessively idealistic one < 1258407452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're welcome to rebut, but somehow I doubt you're interested. < 1258407456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh? define 1) "that old" and 2) amount of money you bet < 1258407475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, my personal experience with c and go is that using tabs has NEVER caused a single problem, ever. < 1258407480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< 50 ? < 1258407482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this would be AnMaster's experience, too. (but only for C) < 1258407486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: despite not knowing much about Go, if you're in a mood for a flamewar I can come up with some specious strawmanny arguments against it if you like so you can knock them down < 1258407486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, maybe bash too) < 1258407497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That would be fun and less upsetting than formatting discussions. < 1258407504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what would you suggest I use for indentation in a Makefile? < 1258407512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Tabs, for... quite obvious reasons. < 1258407514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being that it'll break otherwise. < 1258407522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean beyond the first level < 1258407526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cd $GOROOT; hg pull && make install
< 1258407537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't have such complex makefiles :P (But tabs) < 1258407553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hg pull && hg update && make install < 1258407561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*&& cd src && make install < 1258407564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading some Forth today (by another ardent tab=8 devotee), it was indented using tabs and it worked < 1258407568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tabs worked fine for me with C, C#, Erlang, Bash, Delphi, AppleScript, Python[1] and several other languages. Only language I had issues with it was LISP. < 1258407570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think indentation styles depend on the language a lot < 1258407572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Yeah I know, and I don't care. < 1258407578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/make install/./all.bash/ < 1258407579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fail < 1258407589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: s////? < 1258407600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and amount of money? < 1258407601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with python i believe tabs are illegal in py3k < 1258407604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to evaluate that operator < 1258407607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really isn't good to go against convention so much < 1258407611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: escape second < 1258407618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm no, just mixing them is < 1258407623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that's in 2 < 1258407624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258407641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought in 2 it wasn't illegal, just horribly horribly warny < 1258407642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about go is that gofmt(1) is totally awesome about indenting code. < 1258407649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everybody runs it on their code < 1258407657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty sure that is so < 1258407657 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, what's the kroner (sp?) to dollar amount these days? < 1258407659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the official repo mandates running it before submitting a patch, programmatically < 1258407670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like languages which can be easily reindented < 1258407671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, "kronor" < 1258407683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, google says: < 1258407686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 U.S. dollar = 6.79698758 Swedish kronor < 1258407692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, is it related that I have a horrible habit of annoying people by leaving out semicolons when I write Lua? It was a while before I even realised they were legal) < 1258407693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come on, go strawmen! < 1258407706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lua is meant to be written without semicolons < 1258407712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said people are retards < 1258407713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as in, x = 1 y = 1 < 1258407718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ugh < 1258407720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add some newlines < 1258407726 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1258407736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I use 4-space indentation for lua < 1258407741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that end end end end stacks up neatly < 1258407746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion." < 1258407748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebuttal: no it doesn't < 1258407765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't write them all on the same line unless the starting for loops (it normally is for loops) also started on the same line < 1258407766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopack grc _test/crypto/tls.a _gotest_.6 < 1258407767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- FAIL: tls.TestAlertForwarding < 1258407767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Got error: received unexpected value on one of the channels: script.channelClosed{channel:(chan interface { })(0x35a230)}. Runnable events: recv alert < 1258407767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1258407767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: *** [test] Error 1 < 1258407768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reassuring < 1258407771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i'll go back to the release version < 1258407796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, did you know that Go's concurrency model is somewhat less flexible than INTERCAL's? < 1258407815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hg update -r release
< 1258407815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what *is* Go's concurrency model? < 1258407817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am so unsurprised < 1258407820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: goroutines < 1258407830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it make use of SMP? < 1258407833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1258407837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ick doesn't < 1258407844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc ick runs in lock-step < 1258407848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN, now, those guys are so against tabs. Maybe that's natural, since you have to start the actual code from the seventh column of the file, and use the sixth for continuation line markers, 2nd-5th for line numbers and the first for comment markers; I guess tabs don't really work there. < 1258407849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it could in theory, just it would make your head explode < 1258407852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goroutines are like coroutines except actually concurrent and you can communicate among a bunch of them without worrying about synchronisation < 1258407857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how so? < 1258407860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're <3 < 1258407864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syntax is nice too < 1258407869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna see a nice parallel mandelbrot renderer? < 1258407872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: up to one statement's worth of desync is allowed at every COME FROM < 1258407874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you communicate among them? < 1258407878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channels < 1258407883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't summarise a whole concurrency model >_< < 1258407886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so message based? < 1258407891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1258407892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or stream based? < 1258407892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1258407901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is a channel then < 1258407903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or abstention based/ < 1258407904 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu, floob! < 1258407906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not here to explain a whole concurrency model to you that you don't know in one line < 1258407915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, that was meant to parody AnMaster but I typoed the ? again < 1258407915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only? not more? < 1258407930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to anyone who isn't going to ask a ton of questions, behold the tiny, totally-parallel, png-outputting mandelbrot generator with options! < 1258407931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/8f07441480e01d80?dmode=source&output=gplain < 1258407934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: it's tiny < 1258407937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and readable < 1258407945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep <> for start < 1258407960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is one unidiomatic bit about the code though < 1258407965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of var lines followed by = < 1258407976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the var lines should be omitted and the =s replaced by := < 1258407979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'll do that now < 1258407983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more idiomatic mandelbrot, comin' right up < 1258407992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that syntax is giving my brain a bit of a culture shock, as it's trying to work out whether it's C or Python < 1258407994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting muddled < 1258408011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs don't do this to me, because the syntax is generally so weird it doesn't get confused with other things < 1258408018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mine is being confused between pascal and C < 1258408021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cleaner C :P < 1258408024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some pascal influences < 1258408028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm going to make a more idiomatic version of it < 1258408030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes your even think about python < 1258408033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be even shorter! < 1258408035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours* < 1258408041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the := vs = vs == thing is from Algol < 1258408043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err your* < 1258408047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, pascal < 1258408052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pascal only had := and = < 1258408056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where = was comparison < 1258408073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where in there is ==? < 1258408077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, Algol had := (dereference and assign), = (always be the same as, e.g. defining a constant), == (compare) < 1258408085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no == in there < 1258408095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing == is Go's equality operator even though it isn't used in that program < 1258408100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that they're using = for something else < 1258408125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::= is define-and-set < 1258408128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minimal "type inference") < 1258408128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you've used = already and you're showing a willingness for equality and assignment to be different, you're likely to make comparison == unless you really want to screw with people's minds < 1258408135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and == and =? < 1258408141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality and assign to existing var < 1258408152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258408155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see, told you; it's often possible to deduce language syntax without seeing the whole thing < 1258408161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "meh" < 1258408178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gopaste.org/view?paste=D4gSt2N5yPm2A8yAd0W1iSv4U0fFl7N9 More idiomatic version; syntax-highlighted, but inexplicably missing a comment close. Probably a bug in the pasting site. < 1258408181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should compile :P < 1258408190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, brb < 1258408193 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258408214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I at least came up with snappy names for Feather's assignment and clone operators < 1258408220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment is <<=, clone is =>> < 1258408241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're meant to be relatively long because they're relatively unsafe operations) < 1258408247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, not «= and »=? < 1258408279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe that'll be optional, but worrying about non-ASCII characters would be a distraction at this stage < 1258408283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I can type « and » just fine < 1258408303 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=» < 1258408328 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-1.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258408333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :«» hm altgr z and altgr x < 1258408334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the concept's that << is meant to be reminicent of the rewind button on a tape recorder < 1258408335 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go learn APL, floob! < 1258408335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1258408349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not altgr+< and altgr+shift+< < 1258408396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1258408402 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< is shift + , for US keyboard < 1258408404 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1258408411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the fi keymap, the level-3-shift of the physical <> key is pretty much taken, given that the pipe is there. < 1258408413 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shift + < is impossible < 1258408435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are two pipes on a UK keyboard, | (shift-\) and | (altgr-`) < 1258408437 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you somehow make "lshift + , + rshift" acceptable < 1258408455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is apparently in EBCDIC but not ASCII, and maps onto all sorts of interesting characters on modern-day computers as a result < 1258408463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think this version of X is boring and just maps them onto the same character < 1258408467 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-190.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258408481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: If you had the "altgr" key at all, you could easily put « and » as altgr-shift-, and altgr-shift-., corresponding with the < and >. < 1258408498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My altgr-shift-. is taken but altgr-shift-, isn't < 1258408507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do have AltGr, but it's not mapped to anything different by default (that I know of) < 1258408511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not in Windows < 1258408535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an Alt on the right side of the keyboard, that's different. :-P < 1258408543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < is shift + , for US keyboard <-- yes but it doesn't make sense on a swedish keyboard < 1258408544 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258408553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should know I don't use an US one < 1258408559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes obviously ;-) < 1258408560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-< is > < 1258408561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: AltGr is mapped to control-alt in Windows, for no obvious reason < 1258408569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you can type control-alt anyway, and mostly don't want to < 1258408576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258408577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not for control-alt-delete < 1258408584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nope, that one's special < 1258408584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : At least for the fi keymap, the level-3-shift of the physical <> key is pretty much taken, given that the pipe is there. <-- iirc fi = sv for keymap < 1258408586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have ˛ in altgr-shift-, (I guess that's some sort of an inverse-cedilla?) and ¬ in altgr-shift-.; I'm not sure if that new Finnish standard keymap had anything there. < 1258408594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm sure we can agree that http://gopaste.org/view?paste=D4gSt2N5yPm2A8yAd0W1iSv4U0fFl7N9 is totally awesome < 1258408604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, mandelbrot is embarrassingly parallel < 1258408605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me wonders if it works for control-alt-end, the DJGPP-specific equivalent? or control-alt-backspace if you're running an X server?) < 1258408611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks almost identical to sequential code < 1258408630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if what works in DJGPP? < 1258408631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that style's annoying to read < 1258408637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: altgr-end rather than control-alt-end < 1258408640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what style < 1258408645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the CSS on that < 1258408649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1258408653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments are dark grey on black for me < 1258408657 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doubt it < 1258408660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have that as a dead key under altgr-G (for oGonek?) < 1258408661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah your screen is beyond shit i forgot < 1258408666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ˛, I mean < 1258408668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly readable < 1258408670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I can't see the closing */ of the first comment at all < 1258408679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The not sign I lack < 1258408681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I said it was a bug < 1258408686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the paste site, probably < 1258408688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reading < 1258408701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : comments are dark grey on black for me <-- even on my shitty laptop display that is perfectly readable < 1258408705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1258408712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background is brownish-darkgrey < 1258408715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT black < 1258408724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have black console right next to it < 1258408729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dark grey on darker grey is rather annoying < 1258408731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is very definitely different < 1258408753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's readable :P < 1258408761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION determines that the parallel mandelbrot has approximately 40 lines of "real" code
< 1258408764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a darker colour on my desktop btw < 1258408767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, I guessed as much. Incidentally, the new SFS standard puts some sort typographical starting-single-quote thing to altgr-shift-, and something I can't quite make out into altgr-shift-. -- http://www.csc.fi/sivut/kotoistus/kbpropa2rsuomeksi.pdf < 1258408774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignore } lines and comments, ignore package/import, ignore whitespace) < 1258408797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring the boilerplate for the flags, 34 lines < 1258408803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rule 34 on mandelbrot) < 1258408806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have an OWL-windows version of Mandelbrot on here somewhere, which ofc won't run < 1258408814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, golang.org runs on an http server written entirely in go < 1258408815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i have a spare .exe around that I can run via Wine < 1258408816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so does gopaste.org) < 1258408819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty scalable :P < 1258408820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much is stupid boilerplate? < 1258408821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Looks like the same thing is on both altgr-shift-. and altgr-shift--? < 1258408840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, SFS? < 1258408842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, that it does. I don't know what's up with that. I had somewhere a nice printed-on-shiny-cardboard copy of that new layout, but I don't know where I put it. < 1258408844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. combining dot above or whatever that thing is called. < 1258408857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that on altgr-., incidentally. < 1258408857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Finnish standardization organization. < 1258408868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they are changing from "same layout as sv"? < 1258408870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1258408896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're filling in unused parts of the layout, altgr and altgr-shift stuff < 1258408898 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'CAUSE IT'S TWO THOUSAND FLOOBIN' NINE !!! < 1258408906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's fully backwards-compatible < 1258408907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think it's some sort of Finnish-Swedish combo-project, in fact. And like Deewiant said, they're just adding to the unused parts. < 1258408918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, altgr and altgr-shift is completely filled? < 1258408922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 207 lines; about 40 to implement zooming, about 40 to draw the Mandelbrot itself, the rest is boilerplate < 1258408928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at least to me < 1258408935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and OWL was a method to radically cut the amount of boilerplate in the typical Windows app...) < 1258408944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you are an irritating person who uses the most annoying emoticons and never has anything to contribute except the cliche hating of the inevitable march of the world that seemiingly every idiot gets as they grow older, or things only interesting to those who do the same. < 1258408944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OWL == Borland?? < 1258408945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz stop. < 1258408956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, a proprietary library thing < 1258408957 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*please < 1258408959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe you're an early adopter without even knowing it. < 1258408967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean you actually have a standard for all of it? < 1258408973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And not just that all your keys generate something. < 1258408974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it parallel, though? with the cpu-allocation and all automatic? :P < 1258408977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I didn't realise there was an annoyance scale for emoticons < 1258408978 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's hard to contribute to topics like Go mandelbrot, floobs, etc. < 1258408991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floobbbb < 1258408994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: So. Say. Nothing. < 1258408994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and Finnish keyboard layouts < 1258408998 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1258408998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i can contribute < 1258409003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I doubt it, you have any idea how creating a thread, process, or whatever the other Windows-specific thing is in Windows? < 1258409003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no. I just remapped a lot myself :P < 1258409007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how complex < 1258409017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not funny. < 1258409021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In other words, you were just being silly and misleading everyone. < 1258409022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sadly my pi mapped in seems to be MYSERIOUSLY GONE since a few days < 1258409027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep! < 1258409038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster does that a lot. < 1258409039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. < 1258409045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what point he's trying to prove by it < 1258409065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, something about there being no point. < 1258409072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for it
< 1258409089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, so you're misleading and hold up ridiculous conversations for no reason whatsoever. < 1258409089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry up ehird < 1258409095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æ < 1258409105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, altgr-ä for me is æ < 1258409107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conversation with you must be one of the most compelling propositions ever dreamt of in the entire history of time. < 1258409114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: altgr-a for me < 1258409120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does altgr-a do for you? < 1258409122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so when is your "deep. very deep" comment going to come? < 1258409125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ª < 1258409130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what that is < 1258409134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It didn't even try to be deep. < 1258409135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an underlined superscript a < 1258409135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-shift-a is º < 1258409142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, i have no clue why that is < 1258409148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were just admitting to being a total dick who deliberately obstructs pointless conversation and annoys people for no point. < 1258409150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. < 1258409163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but you only say that line when I'm not *trying* to be deep < 1258409174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also < 1258409180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything I said was true < 1258409181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1258409191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Deewiant, altgr and altgr-shift is completely filled? < 1258409193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is interesting and not boring at all. < 1258409197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Deewiant, at least to me < 1258409200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely true < 1258409274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"True but misleading: an impossible combination" —AnMaster's implication < 1258409305 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks ehird doesn't suffer flo^H^Hools lightly
< 1258409318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That took you a while to figure out. < 1258409341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need some icons for ick programs on mac: 32x32, 16x16 and 8x8. All in 255/16/2 colours. The colour sets are predefined < 1258409343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1258409353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard "no icon" one is just ugly < 1258409363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you got it to work now? < 1258409367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shouldn't an icon for ick be ugly, just based on the name pun? < 1258409373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Based on what I've read, you guys have also a new standard keylayout (SS 662241/T1:2006 or whatever), and both ours and yours have been (very slightly) modified so that they are compatible, at least as far as the physically-enscribed parts go. (So that at least you don't have to start manufacturing different keyboards for both the fi and sv markets.) < 1258409373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err wait, 8x8 isn't needed < 1258409375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: draw the face of the most bearded creator of intercal < 1258409378 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258409386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more bearded? there are only two < 1258409386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't draw. why did you think I asked < 1258409394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pixel art is easy! < 1258409400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not to me < 1258409422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think there is high colour too. but I don't have any app supporting editing that < 1258409426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, just draw a facsimile of ais523's face then, it's very boring (no offense lulz) < 1258409430 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hence there is a single well-defined most bearded one < 1258409438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in black, transparent and skin, I guess :P < 1258409444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd clearly be the best icon you could give! < 1258409455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh" < 1258409463 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big I? < 1258409465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of hard to represent me in a 32x32 icon < 1258409476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1258409479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write < 1258409481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can prove you wrong < 1258409485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=8 < 1258409486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it < 1258409487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skull and crossbones? poison? nuclear symbol? < 1258409489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1258409492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds wolfram si te
< 1258409500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/images/alex_smith_wolfram_turing.jpg < 1258409500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can reproduce this semi-accurately in a 32x32 icon < 1258409501 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, lol < 1258409504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you might think it's vaguely similar < 1258409505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*site < 1258409524 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258409532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-colour (transparent, black, skin, shadowed skin) < 1258409540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got nothing better to do anyway < 1258409548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I still look like that, but the hair's slightly longer atm < 1258409556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's your fault < 1258409570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There are only around 10^2466 different 32x32-sized 256-color images; just generate them all and pick a nice-looking one. < 1258409598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A practical solution. < 1258409604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "IX" as the icon (as in "ick's" or nine in Roman numerals)? < 1258409604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1258409612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... other companies like to hire expensive graphic designers to design icons < 1258409627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, by analogy, we should try to see who will pay us the most to use their attempt at an icon, and use that < 1258409628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258409635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when are we a company? < 1258409653 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCMLXXII = 1972, right? that's when Intercal was created, right? < 1258409653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since now. < 1258409659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since CLC started referring to himself in the plural < 1258409662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1258409665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, INTERCAL-72 < 1258409665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 2^8192, to be exact. < 1258409668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "CLCs"? < 1258409673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could market that as an advertisement opportunity. < 1258409674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we" < 1258409676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258409677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Royal we. < 1258409686 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258409692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I have done that on some projects before. < 1258409694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLCs are not amused. < 1258409710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even went as far as defining "the team" to consist of one person once < 1258409718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was years agi < 1258409720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ago* < 1258409720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is called insanity < 1258409728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is < 1258409741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, well. I was going to paste the exact number in decimal form, but 2467 digits was a bit too much, so I just applied a base-10 logarithm. < 1258409807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many petabyte (or whatever) is that? < 1258409837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yottabytes I guess < 1258409838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prefixes don't go high enough. < 1258409843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The SI prefixes only go up to 10^24, subtracting 24 out of 2467 doesn't really change it appreciably. < 1258409851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1258409875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the reading is of the SI-scale! < 1258409880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad bad joke) < 1258409880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you insist, it's around 10^2442 yottabytes < 1258409880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how small it compresses to
< 1258409895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realisation: I suck at pixel art < 1258409896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you could recursively compress it to less than 1 MB, for instance < 1258409917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, a directory of all possible 32x32 256-color images?) < 1258409920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's compressible to 2467 decimal digits. < 1258409922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Duh.) < 1258409926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not the number < 1258409928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual set of images < 1258409934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually yes. I just did: "generate the directory of all 32x32 256-color images" < 1258409935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1258409936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1258409937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant what I said. < 1258409938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compressed < 1258409944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a perfectly valid form of compression. < 1258409955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, with a non-custom compression algorithm < 1258409956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a trivial O(1) algorithm to decompress. < 1258409962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather, one of the existing ones, like LZMA or gzip < 1258409964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then we cannot even guess. < 1258409971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, define custom < 1258409973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, we can guess. < 1258409975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, people have written gzip quines before < 1258409981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably possible to get it pretty small < 1258410001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> logBase 2 (10**2467) < 1258410002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity < 1258410009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each can be compressed to infinity bits. < 1258410012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess you could chain the prefixes: it's approximately one exayottayottayotta...[a total of 102 "yotta"s]...yottabyte. < 1258410065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, define what you do when chaining here? < 1258410081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One million million. < 1258410083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One megabyte == one kilokilobyte < 1258410088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258410088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: multiply, I suppose < 1258410090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well makes sense < 1258410115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, to use the symbols, 1 EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYB. (Using the powers-of-ten variants, not the binary ones.) < 1258410136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about with binary ones? < 1258410185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly 4 GiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiB, if I count it right. < 1258410274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on 2^8192 = 2^(102*80+30+2). < 1258410316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, uh, to use "B" there in the end makes no sense, since I was just counting the number of images there, not the size of the generated data. < 1258410328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone has used a mosquito for a programming language mascot yet
< 1258410336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would seem suitably icky < 1258410372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kind-of hard to represent < 1258410374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each image is 32*32 = 2^10 bytes, uncompressed, though; so that's then just 4 TiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiYiB of raw data. < 1258410383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may as well use an upside-down nose or something meaningless like that < 1258410410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the DDD debugger icon a mosquito-like thing? Or was it just a boring old-fashioned bug-like bug? < 1258410437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that "the mosquito book" is not programming-related
< 1258410447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logo at http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/ is just a buggy bug, at least. < 1258410457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great 5 crashes in as many minutes < 1258410458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could draw a "K" with ice on it (icey k = i-c-k) < 1258410476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I saw a mosquito icon in some debugger-like context, but it might've been just a toolbar button somewhere. Maybe the TI DSP development studio crashfest? < 1258410534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk -> < 1258410678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Code Composer Studio", and at least not in this screenshot. Well, *somewhere*. < 1258410834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258410845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong button but bouncer blocked part :) < 1258410848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads log
< 1258410893 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much to catch up on in here, if that's what you're doing < 1258411104 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't gzip usually compress in blocks of 50kb or something? < 1258411122 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would automatically mean those pics wouldn't compress enough < 1258411129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:27:38 you could draw a "K" with ice on it (icey k = i-c-k) <-- made me think of "KDE on Ice" < 1258411132 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32k, I think < 1258411133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258411143 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, in blocks of something < 1258411165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so use lzma or bzip2? < 1258411166 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZMA is Lempel Ziv Markov A(... gorithm?), so it supports higher dictionaries < 1258411171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway compressing ridiculous things is an interesting topic < 1258411176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzip2 only goes to 900k < 1258411185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other BWT compressors that do more < 1258411187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you sorted them a simple differential encoding followed by runlength would compress them very well < 1258411197 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: http://www.encode.ru/forum/ < 1258411240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it? < 1258411278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be "same number but one more" < 1258411292 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think lzma might theoretically compress the thing quite a lot < 1258411307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it was smart enough to figure out that it repeated every n bytes < 1258411310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say we have the pictures lexicographically ordered < 1258411319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I said that above < 1258411323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then two adjacent pictures will only have a few bits different < 1258411336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm err are you saying this exact same things < 1258411338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1258411339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1258411347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1258411350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost < 1258411356 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lzma doesn't have differential encoding < 1258411369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, maybe I don't know how lzma works < 1258411373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe,* < 1258411374 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how it compresses iirc is by copypasting previous sequences < 1258411397 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZMA2 method is better at poorly-compressible data < 1258411398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, we will repeat the same thing quite a lot < 1258411431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1258411442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, after getting one pic, a massive amount of pictures after it can be done mostly with copy paste < 1258411443 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'nite < 1258411468 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid compression usually can handle this, right? assuming the dictionary is large enough < 1258411505 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid compression? < 1258411510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wait < 1258411514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remembered one thing < 1258411521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that would be one hell of a tar bomb!" < 1258411522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of compressing each file separately, it tries compressing them all as one huge chunk < 1258411526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really → < 1258411537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah obviously we're doing that < 1258411559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just use 7-Zip and be done with it < 1258411573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean we have so many files we can't use even half a bit for one file < 1258411582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the result will be too huge to fit this universe < 1258411599 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258411603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip can do semi-solid (as can Rar) < 1258411616 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you don't have to (de)compress the whole thing at a time just to get one file < 1258411642 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly worse overall compression but much much faster / leaner < 1258411742 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, because a whole file will never have occurred before (except when it's the end of some file and the beginning of another), we'll usually have to encode a new file in at least two copy paste chunks < 1258411763 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'll usually need at least a bit for each file < 1258411785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'd probably need something slightly different < 1258411789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Also, zlib has a sliding window of N kilobytes, not a "split into blocks and compressed separately" scheme. Still, there is a maximum length for the (length, distance) encoding, and yes, you'd certainly end up with at least a bit per file, probably much more. < 1258411827 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, guys, as over at http://www.encode.ru/forum/ ... they are heavy into compression < 1258411828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying everything splits into blocks... or is zlib gzip? < 1258411841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zlib == deflate == gzip < 1258411845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258411847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== zip (mostly) < 1258411854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you allow a bit of wiggle-room in the ==s. < 1258411860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i seriously doubt that forum is about this stuff < 1258411868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about all kinds of compression < 1258411876 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything compression related < 1258411880 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when compressing stuff that can't fit this universe? < 1258411891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory too < 1258411922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me something relevant to this and i'll believe you < 1258411925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even theoretically speaking, I'm not sure it's a horribly interesting question. I mean, it's not *un*interesting, but still. < 1258411934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: don't believe me, see if I care :-P < 1258411969 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: more interesting than compressing things that *do* fit this universe in any case < 1258412018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i'm not saying you should care, i'm saying you shouldn't link irrelevant things < 1258412031 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION apologizes for trying to help ...
< 1258412034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Rugxulo pipes in always, no matter what < 1258412046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: floobs floobs floobs < 1258412055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally that fails to be funny < 1258412064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O FLBY? < 1258412164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The counting problem, however falsely implies that a small number of states can't reproduce a larger number of states. -- 256^256 = 3.2e+616 : 1-byte=>1-byte => many bytes -- The counting argument is broken when you include cross referenced meaning, as in the above example, combined with recursive manipulation and disclude the infinite range." Gads, comp.compression is such a kook-pot. < 1258412196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll disclude your infinite range. So to speak. < 1258412301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sense some cross-referenced meaning in your statement there. < 1258412333 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1258412342 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone translate that into english < 1258412403 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cross-referenced meaning, combined with recursive manipulation" < 1258412473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yes, uh... it's something about how you first pick one byte, and the a second, and then you can somehow represent a range of 256^256 values, even though there are only 2^16 "states". < 1258412545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, it continues with "ie the truth is only as true as the next truth The difference between the earth being round and the earth being flat is not far apart mathematically and neither is true, the earth is neither round nor flat, but both and neither." I don't think you'll be able to extract much meaningful content from there. < 1258412551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading only one line above) Apparently "semi-solid" is the new word for "random access" < 1258412743 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258412797 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258413165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going home" < 1258413303 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"floob ... I mean food" < 1258414210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258414330 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258414358 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258414403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is going to kill me < 1258414410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only < 1258414427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION deliberately used Comic Sans MS
< 1258414434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a comic? < 1258414438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1258414442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what. < 1258414448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sign in Active Worlds < 1258414458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not one that most people will see, admittedly, but still < 1258414469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please kill yourself. < 1258414498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I and some other people will be seeing that sign regularly though < 1258414931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then you will probably die of it, like with smoking. i mean comic sans _is_ lethal, right, otherwise would people be so against it... < 1258414941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why would < 1258414998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/iQavU.jpg < 1258416184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Not the best font. And not the worst font I have seen. < 1258416245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you must have seen some pretty baby-raping fonts < 1258416252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technical term) < 1258416503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hierarchises his mailing lists
< 1258416504 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see something that makes you want to close the window ASAP: Tell xterm to use proportional font (at least in older versions). < 1258416509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-nuts < 1258416510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic/agora < 1258416510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic/b < 1258416510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic/nomicron < 1258416515 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258416518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: argh, sometimes I do that and want to die < 1258416557 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in general, load proportional font into some programs that assume all fonts are monospaced. < 1258417398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://killersmurf.blogspot.com/2009/11/typefuck.html bf in haskell type checker < 1258417908 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258417973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sorry but that has to be the worst named thing I've ever seen in my life. < 1258417973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit: I hope you're downvoting me because I didn't add to the conversation rather than disagreeing with me. TypeFuck? BrainFuck? Imagine that on a resume." < 1258418017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urban müller < 1258418018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 years brainfuck experience < 1258418018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 17 years aminet experience < 1258418024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could practically end his cv there. < 1258418045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fair enough, I'm no programmer so I just assumed it was something that had hopes of going mainstream. (Name still sucks though)" < 1258418050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck: Hopes of goiong mainstream. < 1258418230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"best format for the longevity of documents" < 1258418230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, plain text? < 1258418301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuneiform, clearly < 1258418391 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258418904 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258419099 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258420422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you've read the metamorphosis of prime intellect, yeah? < 1258420438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1258420448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth reading? < 1258420478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can handle sex and violence, yes. < 1258420497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely not, I die every time I read the word "sex" or "violence". < 1258420509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I have died four times in the last minute. < 1258420622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest calling guinness < 1258420753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suggest" is one of those words that make me die, you know. < 1258420781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you are suggestible then < 1258423179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I absolutely love the Single UNIX(R) Specification. It's a shining example that committees can release splendid standards." < 1258423179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*splutter* *cough* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHUHASIUhsufdhdgjfokglih;lgjpg;hlf;ghj < 1258423395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more from the same person: "(I'm finally talking to qwe1234! Yeah! Long time fan here :) )" < 1258423696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258426219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258427970 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258428098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Go is not a divisive issue. unless you mean the japanese game of strategy. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1258433076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading another story set in the PI universe :D
< 1258433426 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258433426 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258433506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PI universe? < 1258433720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe of The Metamorphesis of Prime Intellect < 1258433731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258434300 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258434300 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258435335 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258435349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did. < 1258435426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enq < 1258435968 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"" < 1258436301 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258436473 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258437311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258437878 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258438001 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258438026 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258438056 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258439032 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258439055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote a MBR code, and now you can learn how to write a MBR code, too! B8 00 B8 8E C0 B0 70 B9 A0 0F 31 FF F3 AA B8 60 00 8E C0 B8 3E 02 B9 02 00 31 DB FA 9C 06 53 FF 2E 4C 00 0F 0B < 1258439193 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I was writing rules for Icosahedral RPG using MediaWiki format, but it isn't quite good enough, so I wrote my own format instead, and wrote a program for using this format. So far, what I have, is: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/ < 1258439943 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-194.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258440054 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: < 1258440100 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38? < 1258440107 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning :) < 1258440125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my time, it is at night < 1258440148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the message I posted? You can view the log in case you don't know < 1258440661 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258440661 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258440838 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a frayed knot < 1258440932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, sorry, I didn't know that < 1258441201 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258441427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have trying to ask on everywhere, this question < 1258435267 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258435267 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258435311 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258435315 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258443276 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258443276 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258444706 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258444799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258444845 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258444845 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258444847 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258444847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258444847 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258444847 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258444855 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1258444958 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258444963 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445005 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1258445225 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445225 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1258445228 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445261 0 :Deewiant_!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258445341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by orwell.freenode.net (orwell.freenode.net (Deewiant[n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi] Ghosted sagan.freenode.net)) < 1258445390 0 :Deewiant_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Deewiant < 1258445406 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_ < 1258445411 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258445766 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258446359 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1258446521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bedtime" < 1258446655 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258450390 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258450391 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258450392 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258450393 0 :Guest19337!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258450394 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-194.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258450396 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1258450575 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258450813 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258450866 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1258450894 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest98561 < 1258455423 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258459947 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258460023 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258460854 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258461568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258464402 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258468061 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-37-214.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258468086 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258468448 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258473087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258474034 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258474770 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-11-119.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258474804 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1258477500 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-72.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258478105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1258478110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258478117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, your recent post on alt.lang.intercal looks messed up to me < 1258478119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This error means that the skeleton file ick-wrap.c couldn't be found. < 1258478119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The < 1258478119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler will try looking in various places for it; you can see where < 1258478119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1258478125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258478125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1258478134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-wrapped by two different editors with different wrap widths < 1258478166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and didn't noticed it before posting? < 1258478175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't see it before posting < 1258478177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why using two different editors for editing it? < 1258478180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1258478181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Groups does its own wrapping < 1258478184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after you post < 1258478189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the second, and I hadn't realised < 1258478196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now I'm just posting unwrapped originals and letting it wrap the results < 1258478384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258478432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I take no credit for ick, I only provide download space. < 1258478432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course I do take credit/blame for sick but that's a different compiler)." < 1258478432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258478439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be the CLC one? < 1258478874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1258478883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258479001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why charging takes like 30 minutes between 40% and 95% and then another 30 minutes until it hits 99% and then 45% for the final 1%
< 1258479007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258479015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that last 45% 45 minutes < 1258479041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I know it charges slower near the end, but this just seems silly < 1258482359 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258482916 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258483400 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258483578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc < 1258483591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, didn't notice you join < 1258483593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed < 1258483607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, D&D though! < 1258483608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly, and strokes his goatee
< 1258483609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1258483618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annotation especially < 1258483623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, agreed? < 1258483640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits while oerjan goes reading D&D in panic
< 1258483659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And imagine the sorts of dungeon maps M. C. Escher drew." < 1258483665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly! < 1258483670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1258483676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1258483685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i had to reread to get the quote < 1258483697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, SUUUURE ;P < 1258483726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs puseaudio repeatedly
< 1258483752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, one has to wonder how crushers and guillotines are utilized for droid production < 1258483775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :molten steel seems more reasonable < 1258483848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1258483900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, crushers could be something to stamp out metal in reality, just the GM didn't understand that technical detail < 1258483943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1258483957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right and guillotines to cut the resulting plates < 1258483976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is an early production stage < 1258484265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh right and guillotines to cut the resulting plates <-- no, that makes no sense, you would use a circular saw kind of thingy for that I think < 1258484312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258486357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or in the future, a laser cutter probably < 1258486359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1258486365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does this campaign take place? < 1258486369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a long time ago"? < 1258486383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well star wars does < 1258486398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes I quoted that. But this camapin? < 1258486401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :campaign* < 1258486449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless it's on one of the episode introduction blurbs, i doubt it's been mentioned < 1258486603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot see any, although admittedly the upper parts are unreadable < 1258486617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait transcript < 1258486641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.darthsanddroids.net+"a+long+time+ago"&hl=en < 1258486657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, nothing on those blurbls < 1258486661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-l < 1258486678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see link < 1258486776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are only annotations though < 1258486783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true < 1258487770 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258487804 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258487927 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258488209 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258488300 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1258488305 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258488320 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258488570 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258488630 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258489234 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258489453 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258491546 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is also a reader of Darths and Droids.
< 1258491621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1258491869 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258492362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that last xkcd (yesterday?) was just pure weird. < 1258492374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly funny though < 1258492378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not much) < 1258492497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to read the hovertext too for that one < 1258492866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course I did < 1258492875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so... < 1258492993 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258493009 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258493675 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258493764 0 :Guest98561!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1258494057 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1258494561 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1258495348 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258497114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah: < 1258497116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quadtree < 1258497116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quadtree scheme to use. < 1258497116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A TRUE bool value corresponds to "normal"; a FALSE bool value corresponds to "none". As a slight exception to the normal interpretation of bool, a value of "2" corresponds to "fast". " < 1258497119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1258497128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice bool that < 1258497136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258497141 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1258497142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's from graphviz < 1258497149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm very surprised < 1258497149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a bool, that's an enum < 1258497161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they call it bool < 1258497163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that famous site puts it "enum BOOL {TRUE,FALSE,FILE_NOT_FOUND} < 1258497164 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1258497164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1258497183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TDWTF, of course) < 1258497195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knoe < 1258497198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know* < 1258497241 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others might not < 1258497271 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258497288 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258497346 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258497559 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes (listening to Earthsearch from Radio 7)
< 1258497719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1258497823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably take Microsoft's example. < 1258497836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(valid values of one of their boolean types are 0,1, and -1. < 1258497838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258499455 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258499582 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258499646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258500968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258502576 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258502580 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258506264 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258508545 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258508563 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258508801 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258509181 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-130-25.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258509527 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258509609 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up bsmntbombdood < 1258510705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258511258 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258515004 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258516354 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258516464 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258517549 0 :mtve!n=nnnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258517777 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi facsimile < 1258517825 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1258517893 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got home from work < 1258518026 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258518031 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258518591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258518640 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258518964 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood; i awanna learn AI < 1258518976 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258518996 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258519004 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I will buy AIMA tommorow, a revision just came out < 1258519015 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1258519040 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Modern-Approach-3rd/dp/0136042597/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258519029&sr=1-3 < 1258519043 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d edition bitches < 1258519052 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all right < 1258520986 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loflgasm < 1258520988 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check it out < 1258520992 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1675961 < 1258521000 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*15, in my parent's email < 1258521041 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1258521046 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's scary getting email like that?? < 1258521084 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious more like < 1258521086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lol'd < 1258521111 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1258521168 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258521173 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be scared < 1258521451 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1258521455 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty harmless < 1258521481 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just glad there's nothing embarrassing, the email got sent to my parents < 1258521508 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1258521605 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fat chicks on donkey dicks #6", etc < 1258521613 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what I was thinking :D < 1258521949 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i dont think NBC Universal produced that one, so i think you're ok < 1258522111 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1258522344 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258522363 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258524915 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258524928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258524961 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258525951 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258527103 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258528009 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258528021 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258528026 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258528669 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258528719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They probably take Microsoft's example. < 1258528719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (valid values of one of their boolean types are 0,1, and -1. < 1258528719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1258528721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1258528723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1258528743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft is bad, but THAT bad? < 1258530728 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258530944 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258530944 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258530944 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258530945 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258530946 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258530946 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258531059 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258531200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531262 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531275 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531410 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531411 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258531441 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258531489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1258531548 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258531977 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1258533498 0 :lifthrasiir!i=2q8ry8Di@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258534387 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258537024 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258540820 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258540937 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258542190 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258542668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258542696 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@91.153.117.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258543454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258543611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1258544550 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.183.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258544616 0 :Wamanuz!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258544629 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258545771 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258545788 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258545797 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258546680 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258547323 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@92.139.143.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258548128 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258551525 0 :neuDialect!n=IceChat7@ip-85-161-167-114.eurotel.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258553749 0 :neuDialect!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258560626 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258560932 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-12-180.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258562373 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258562504 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258562808 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258562838 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258569425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately most of the options are documented not yet" <-- grammar fail. < 1258569443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from documentation on a LaTeX document class) < 1258569727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way: I love LyX < 1258570175 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258570240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc < 1258570274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1258570284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I bet you waited for me to speak < 1258570287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading log < 1258570289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258570295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1258570304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that's just cheating. < 1258570317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i just logged on. < 1258570324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't believe it < 1258570341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you were reading the log, waiting for the right moment to connect and join! < 1258570355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably using a script to notify you of when I spoke < 1258570416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how paranoid. < 1258570505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey, it is what I would do if I was in your position. < 1258570544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hypothetical. < 1258570662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hypothecal < 1258570667 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-194.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258570745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where is hackbot, i want to look up hypothecal < 1258570747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and egobot too, btw) < 1258570761 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1258570784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(microbiology, planktology) Of or pertaining to the hypotheca, the lower half of the shell of certain types of plankton" < 1258570948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I want reverse sshfs. As in: mount the local directory on the remote server. < 1258570973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you could do it by setting up a ssh tunnel and then sshing back through that < 1258570976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just silly < 1258570995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw the system in question is assumed to be behind NAt you can't control (say, university wlan network or such)= < 1258570998 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregory Chaitin showed that all provable results are ipso-facto trivial < 1258570998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/)/ < 1258571019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile, what do you mean < 1258571032 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping someone else could explain it :( < 1258571058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile, why didn't you ask that then. < 1258571066 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I am asking < 1258571075 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact we are all asking it < 1258571091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258575046 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258576023 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.ted.com/talks/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsense_technology.html < 1258576043 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a part in here that is really very much like what we were talking about < 1258576623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what were you talking about < 1258576645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which when < 1258577234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, < 1258577235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : theres a part in here that is really very much like what we were talking about < 1258577236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1258577244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1258577248 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258577255 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird and i were discussion experimental OS design < 1258577268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data-oriented rather than application-oriented < 1258577270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it was on the line above. How could it possibly have been misinterpreted :P < 1258577280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, interesting < 1258577342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, is that a video site or such? I can't see any text related to things (and I'm not running X atm, so using w3m) < 1258577352 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, its a video. < 1258577410 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258577645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1258577652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megavideo has lowered its maximum viewing time to 66 minutes < 1258577673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what is this "megavideo"? < 1258577687 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website where you can illegally watch videos, ofcourse! < 1258577701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why of course? < 1258578055 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258578070 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because thats what it is! < 1258578073 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else could it be? < 1258579011 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258579061 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258579481 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1258579521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it could have been a ripoff on youtube < 1258579565 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it couldnt, because it is not! < 1258579574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, how would I have known? < 1258579649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not for me to decide < 1258580388 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, my DNS is so shit ATM < 1258580414 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet generally is just fine, but DNS lookups take ages < 1258580436 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is new connections that are broken, and existing ones are unafected < 1258581972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, switch dns server < 1258581977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want opendns details < 1258581980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258582016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208.67.222.222 < 1258582016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208.67.220.220 < 1258582017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so < 1258582060 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258582076 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they get enough money to keep existing? < 1258582410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, by being worse than a normal dns server but better than a dead one? < 1258582424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use it in case of emergencies < 1258582448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDNS#Privacy_issues.2C_conflicts_and_covert_redirection < 1258582525 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258582583 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258582627 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258582653 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot get input working in Interfunge, must be doing it wrong
< 1258582695 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it seems to work well < 1258584974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↓ < 1258586024 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258586794 0 :Darth_Cliche!n=Darth_Cl@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258586834 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258586870 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258586916 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. ais523 wasn't kidding when he said there were a lot of nomicers who were also esolangers. < 1258586947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to bed soon
< 1258587275 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258587374 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258587397 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mtve < 1258587952 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258588551 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258588674 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258591430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258592298 0 :Oranjer!n=oranjer@adsl-71-6-20.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258592305 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1258592332 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Oranjer. < 1258592382 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you made any esolangs before, or do you just use them? < 1258592474 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not do neither < 1258592492 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've yet to use 'em, and I haven't made any < 1258592498 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258592508 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! you have google wave, right? < 1258592512 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1258592515 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1258592519 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it too! < 1258592519 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258592522 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258592528 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm oranjer, of course < 1258592545 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As for me, I've made http://esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9_2D HQ9+2D) < 1258592584 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it say < 1258592596 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says there's no text on it (hur hur hur) < 1258592606 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258592623 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno what's up < 1258592657 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! can you send me the link using google wave? < 1258592670 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1258592683 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oranjer@googlewave.com!!!! < 1258592685 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1258592751 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent/ < 1258592753 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sent. < 1258592788 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258592815 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...what? < 1258592832 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the program usable? for making things? < 1258592875 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever heard of HQ9+? < 1258592891 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258592911 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke language < 1258592917 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1258592920 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like HQ9+2D < 1258592932 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except without ><^ or v < 1258592936 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just goes east forever < 1258592952 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay < 1258593155 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what's up? < 1258593194 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just earlier today signed up for the wiki < 1258593226 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1258593249 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258593263 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, now you can like, do stuff, I guess < 1258593269 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and freedom of action is goood! yay < 1258593377 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you seem a lot less conservative than I had originally, rather offensively, assumed. < 1258593386 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing now? < 1258593395 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservative? < 1258593400 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuuuut < 1258593434 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258593438 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, I'm the one who got into arguments with conservatives at my school < 1258593454 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assumption was based entirely on your location. < 1258593456 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like, the spokesperson for anti-conservativism < 1258593458 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha < 1258593535 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I do see atheist bumperstickers and whatnot from time to time here < 1258593578 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :religion != politics, for one thing. Although atheists are generally liberal or libertarian. < 1258593660 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most importantly, "from time to time", as opposed to "often". < 1258593661 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but aren't libertarians some form of conservatism? :o < 1258593673 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, although I once saw a Darwin fish in Texas (awesome), but I meant it as... < 1258593705 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that in a conservative place, such blatant non-christian stuff would be terrorized and whatnot < 1258593739 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, madbr, it's more like two seperate dimensions < 1258593743 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258593749 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :economic and individual freedom < 1258593750 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :economic freedom, and social freedom < 1258593752 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258593787 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's really three dimensions, though individual and social are closely tied.) < 1258593791 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liberalism has low economic but high individual/social < 1258593808 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservatism has high economic but low individual/social < 1258593822 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libertarianism has high both < 1258593830 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statism < 1258593836 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and authoritarianism has low both < 1258593841 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouchies < 1258593861 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, me ol' gover' teacher gave us another interpro < 1258593866 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you split individual and social you get 9 different ideas < 1258593879 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three facets: order, freedom, and equality < 1258593899 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only choose two, at the expense of the third one < 1258593910 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservatives generally pick order and freedom, at the expense of equality < 1258593928 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liberals generally pick freedom and equality, at the expense of order < 1258593957 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you pick order and equality at the expense of freedom? < 1258593965 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and authoritarians generally pick order and equality over freedom < 1258593973 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1258593975 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't care about equality... < 1258594001 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communism did, before it went total-postal < 1258594014 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they aren't authoritarian. < 1258594021 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a more inclusive way to define it based on those facets: < 1258594032 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1258594044 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, what were those 9 ideas you mentioned?) < 1258594061 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have names for them. They're just combinations of high/low.) < 1258594069 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay < 1258594079 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each starts at 0, which is average. < 1258594087 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 1 point. < 1258594087 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the facets? < 1258594090 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1258594092 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258594105 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use that point to increase any of them by 1. < 1258594115 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can decrease any of them by 1 to gain another point. < 1258594160 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, cool < 1258594169 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, there would have to be limits < 1258594176 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus centrism just doesn't spend the point in the first place < 1258594181 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined by nature, and what not < 1258594191 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't centrism spend it on order? < 1258594202 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that would be... um... order-ism. < 1258594226 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! let's use this stuff in a nomic! < 1258594249 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. We'd need a good initial ruleset incorporating them. < 1258594265 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1258594311 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, as I was telling yuri, a system requires a goal to be worthwhile, and that most countries (and nomics, and other human organos) don't have any goals above "survive" < 1258594321 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name idea: Nationomic < 1258594352 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm saying that in the future, if I'm involved in a nomic (or anything else), I shall always make an early step to be the defining of a goal < 1258594364 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what is the goal of our suggested nomic? < 1258594370 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. < 1258594377 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be unwinnable. < 1258594402 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or we could have some sort of United Nations-like entity < 1258594412 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although there is no official "winning" < 1258594438 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can gain great power by becoming leader of the UN < 1258594440 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1258594445 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should talk about this in ##nomic < 1258594449 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1258594453 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has drifted quite far from the topic of esolangs. < 1258594456 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what network is that? < 1258594474 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(remember, unfamiliar computer here) < 1258594494 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same one as you're on. < 1258594497 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258594498 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! < 1258594503 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258594505 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuri wants to talk about it also < 1258594511 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure we can't do it in google wave? < 1258594511 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1258594517 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not? < 1258594647 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258594653 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258594668 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good cpu design for some amateur project? < 1258594754 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game of life < 1258594756 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1258594759 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1258594783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC < 1258594794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/MISC < 1258595136 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look particularly programmable < 1258595155 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a more standard risc although those are boring < 1258595351 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Java user signed off" < 1258595564 0 :Oranjer!n=oranjer@adsl-71-6-20.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258595747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted to program MISC, I would make a MIPS->MISC compiler. < 1258597259 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Java user signed off" < 1258602312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got yellwed at for saying wtf
< 1258602320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I meant to type wtg < 1258602324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this was repeated < 1258602415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is addicted to AWBingo
< 1258602710 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTG? < 1258603274 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What The GOD?! < 1258603295 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah. < 1258603305 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes perfect sense. < 1258603492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to go < 1258603515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a bingo place < 1258603682 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it please you to believe you are in a bingo place? < 1258603732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258603747 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1258603758 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally mixed code for my IRC bot and my ELIZA clone < 1258604282 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME: The world is explode. ELIZA: What does that suggest to you? < 1258604355 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME: I WILL KILL YOU ELIZA! ELIZA: Perhaps in your fantasies we will kill each other. < 1258604536 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to make ELIZAs talk to each other
< 1258604559 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELIZA: Why are you concerned over my problem? < 1258604578 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHER ELIZA: Your problem ? < 1258604810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So two people in AW use Base64 to swear in front of people who don't approve of swearing where they're doing it < 1258604817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm threatening to reveal what language they're using < 1258605081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one of them talked about f***ing one of the other people there, so < 1258605279 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1258605372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a G rated area, and the owners of the place already ejected someone for saying wtf < 1258605471 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258605480 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF! < 1258605653 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG WTF LOLOLOL < 1258605668 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION creates chatbot representing typical 12-year-old
< 1258605955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my trombone!!! < 1258605956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs112.snc3/15956_210441155020_601130020_4464643_2268885_n.jpg < 1258606246 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258606265 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay finally felt like learning the techniques in "how to develop a super power memory" < 1258606292 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after one day's training, i had a friend tell me 42 cards from the deck and i told him the missing ones < 1258606302 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 error) < 1258606442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i memorized the order of a deck in ~ 10 minutes, random access, although card -> index was a bit unreliable... then again i was getting pretty tired < 1258606463 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's all... people should seriously read that book < 1258606475 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you people < 1258606593 0 :Bjornung!n=qfzqgteq@91.177.214.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258607171 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258607439 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers memorizing the internet
< 1258607571 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is oklofok a spambot? < 1258607583 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: yes < 1258607597 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so why doesn't someone kick it? < 1258607694 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258607703 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, so it isn't a spambot? < 1258607715 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 50 year old book < 1258607751 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. Oklofok, are you a human? < 1258607755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess that could still be considered spam < 1258607764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1258607775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually i say i'm a lizard < 1258607805 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a mizard < 1258607808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't mean the system doesn't work for humans, i have a human brain) < 1258607847 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258607850 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'd accuse you of being a furry, except that doesn't quite work with lizards. Maybe a scaly. < 1258607856 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi sebbu2 < 1258608145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was a book about memorizing data structures in general, loraine was more of a magician than a computer scientist < 1258608162 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION substitutes for oklofok.
< 1258608167 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I say I'm a dog. < 1258608169 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also cs may have been slightly different in '57 < 1258608194 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well telling by your face... < 1258608247 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I used the nick DogFace here? < 1258608287 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely not a Martian. < 1258608316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: either that or you've linked pictures of yourself and your damn ugly < 1258608320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1258608326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember which tbh < 1258608358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, countless times < 1258608385 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've either linked pictures of myself countless times or used the nick DogFace here countless times? < 1258608385 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, the name 'Warrigal' sounds like a dog breed. < 1258608388 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1258608411 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a species of canine indigenous to Australia. < 1258608419 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258608420 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a theory about Warrigal's nicks < 1258608425 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1258608431 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You expect me to believe that? < 1258608437 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's somewhere deep in the logs < 1258608439 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're jacrave-ing me! < 1258608442 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258608449 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not my RL friends < 1258608451 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1258608452 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about a sex change operation < 1258608459 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1258608481 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ihope", tentatively seeking reassurance and hoping that the operation will work out. < 1258608519 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then "Warrigal", i.e. "Warri gal", obviously post-op. < 1258608744 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258608744 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258608766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say in your mug < 1258608771 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal is a synonym for dingo. < 1258608784 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you look *very* different than i expected < 1258608787 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: "For integral x > 0, compute the number of pairs of distinct points A and B on y = x^2 where the slope of line AB is 2008." < 1258608805 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "line AB" is AB with an overline. < 1258608815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you are the jap or something dude) < 1258608836 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "^2" is a superscript 2. But anyway. < 1258608845 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what you expected me to look like. < 1258608853 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(unless you are the jap or something dude)" < 1258608861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer < 1258608866 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258608866 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...my brother thinks "dingo" is a slang term for penis. < 1258608883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a slang word for penis. < 1258608888 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. < 1258608891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except penis, it's just a word for penis. < 1258608900 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything" is indeed a slang term for penis. < 1258608905 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258608917 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "dick" is not a slang term, it's just a regular term. < 1258608921 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi immibis < 1258608924 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure this conversation has been had here < 1258608935 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, seriously? < 1258608939 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this very channel? < 1258608948 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258608971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, everything itches. That can't be good. /me goes to a urologist. < 1258608973 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i say everything is a slang term for penis, someone says that same joke. or maybe it's my first deja vu i don't recognize as one. < 1258608978 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had a lot of conversations about penises < 1258608985 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi immie < 1258608987 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're weird, you know that? < 1258608995 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1258609006 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("You" here was plural, just to clarify) < 1258609016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was told that today at uni, well not directly < 1258609036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was implied via antisymmetric eyebrows < 1258609063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have to remove these plastic flap thingies from all the bottles i empty < 1258609071 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do it with my teeth < 1258609075 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyebrows that were at the same height at no distance from the median plane. < 1258609099 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1258609102 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-� < 1258609113 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: umm wouldn't those be symmetric < 1258609138 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyebrows that were at a different height at every distance from the median plane? No, certainly not. < 1258609171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol i misparsed < 1258609190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but point taken < 1258609199 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm wearing my medal in that picture. < 1258609222 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sorta math medal? < 1258609226 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1258609232 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you win? < 1258609239 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: The number of integer pairs on y = x^2, x > 0 that form a slope of 2008 is 2007. 4014 points in total. < 1258609253 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Team high scorer, perhaps. < 1258609257 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned your friend was at some sorta championships, i figured you weren't because you didn't mention that < 1258609261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258609269 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He won Most Times Accidentally Deregistered From Agora. < 1258609280 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: that sounds right. < 1258609308 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I wonder which friend that was. < 1258609322 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: this was about the dinosaurs < 1258609324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conversation < 1258609341 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1258609342 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defined as some sorta connected regions on ZxZ) < 1258609355 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a year ago or so < 1258609361 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 2008-ominoes or something. < 1258609368 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual problem was trivial iirc < 1258609376 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why 2008 instead of 2009? < 1258609384 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it was last year or something. < 1258609394 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, we should probably be gearing up for 2010. < 1258609396 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dearly hope the problem was not trivial, as I couldn't solve it. < 1258609417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1258609432 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't remember it, usually that happens if the problem is complex to state, or trivial to solve < 1258609464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: so why 2007? < 1258609484 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was practically equivalent to this: "A dinosaur is a polyomino of at least 2008 squares. A primitive dinosaur is a dinosaur that cannot be divided into multiple dinosaurs. Find the number of primitive dinosaurs." < 1258609498 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slope of line between a and b is (b^2-a^2)/(b-a), which simplifies to (b + a). Slope was 2008, so a + b = 2008. 2007 solutions for a,b > 0. < 1258609519 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: oh, that's not right. < 1258609529 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there only 1003 solutions? < 1258609547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i misunderstood the question < 1258609550 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oh, right < 1258609551 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258609551 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258609552 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1004, actually. < 1258609586 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a = b also a solution? < 1258609591 0 :Bjornung!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258609593 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean can't be divided into multiple dinosaurs? < 1258609605 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: yeah. < 1258609614 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is < 1258609648 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it cannot be partitioned into dinosaurs. < 1258609657 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you define that? < 1258609668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by removing points? < 1258609687 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess that is obvious < 1258609711 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just one point? < 1258609719 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1258609724 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1258609736 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258609743 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b doesn't have any distance, and thus can't form a unique line. < 1258609762 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: but it's a solution < 1258609766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;() < 1258609767 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*;) < 1258609770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the equation < 1258609772 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: not of (b^2-a^2)/(b-a) = 2008. < 1258609782 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that equation, no < 1258609785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258609792 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a solution of some equation. :-P < 1258609806 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1258609816 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window and accidentally pressed enter :P < 1258609832 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0*x = 0*it < 1258609839 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a solution of that equation. < 1258609859 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=b is also a solution of 3x=0 < 1258609864 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to an equation that was mentioned! < 1258609864 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1258609866 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of 0x=0 < 1258609890 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to prove that there are no solutions for x=-x: (1) x = -x (2) 1x = -1x (3) 1 = -1 < 1258609932 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dinosaur is a polyomino of at least an infinite number of squares. A primitive dinosaur is a dinosaur that cannot be divided into multiple dinosaurs. Find the number of primitive dinosaurs. < 1258609936 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: 0 < 1258609945 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At a random guess < 1258609950 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a line of 2008 in a row is one < 1258609952 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: that's false, if there are any dinosaurs. < 1258609963 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258609968 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the dinosaur {(0,x) | x > 0}. < 1258609980 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what that represents.
< 1258609991 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One square and all the squares to the right of it. < 1258610001 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258610008 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: now enumerate the rest! < 1258610014 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be divided into multiple dinosaurs < 1258610016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't be partitioned into dinosaurs? < 1258610021 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both identical to itself < 1258610022 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1258610026 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if there are any dinosaurs." < 1258610029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should read what you say < 1258610038 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: no < 1258610046 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be divided into two dinosaurs that look like it < 1258610077 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any amount in fact, any partition into dinosaurs will have at most one infinite dinosaur < 1258610092 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*partitioning < 1258610124 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: take the dinosaur {(0,x) | x > 0} u {(1,x) | x > 0}. < 1258610146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: not a partition of {(0,x) | x > 0} < 1258610151 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant that one can't be < 1258610165 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1258610167 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Darth_Cliche: It can be divided into multiple dinosaurs" <<< response to this < 1258610189 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obvious name for {(0,x) | x > 0} is the omega dinosaur. < 1258610206 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see the omega plus one dinosaur. < 1258610209 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dinosaur is a polyomino which resembles a dinosaur. Find the number of dinosaurs. < 1258610213 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Infinity < 1258610216 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 0 < 1258610220 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything inbetween < 1258610235 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aleph, not infinity. < 1258610236 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as how "resembles a dinosaur" is completely subjective < 1258610245 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of infinite numbers-of-things. < 1258610269 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not, and will not ever, understand the difference between aleph and infinity. < 1258610291 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: infinity is defined as follows: if a set can be put into bijection with a proper subset of its, it's infinite < 1258610310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual infinite numbers are then sizes of different infinite sets, again defined by what can be put into bijection with what < 1258610315 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of definitions of infinity, and they're pretty much entirely incompatible. < 1258610326 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for aleph? < 1258610329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right that's cardinality < 1258610345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph is the size of N < 1258610347 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so aleph is like "infinityth"? < 1258610348 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of natural numbers < 1258610407 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate infinity, and always will. < 1258610421 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aleph is just the answer to the question "How many natural numbers are there?" < 1258610454 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aleph_1 is the answer to the question "What's the size of the smallest set that's bigger than aleph?", aleph_2 is the answer to "What's the size of the smallest set that's bigger than aleph_1?", and so on. < 1258610489 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to leave now < 1258610490 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258610492 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph^2 < 1258610501 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph^2 = aleph. < 1258610529 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph_aleph < 1258610567 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph is not a valid thing to put in the subscript. < 1258610574 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258610592 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smallest cardinal number greater than aleph_n for all natural numbers n is aleph_omega. < 1258610631 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega > aleph ? < 1258610662 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega and aleph are different types of numbers; you can't really compare them like that. < 1258610667 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: if it anywhere had a "line" (of any shape) of 4016 squares, you could divide the thing into two polyominoes of 2008 < 1258610673 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega does have a size, though, and the size of omega is aleph. < 1258610673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that at least puts an upper bound on the size < 1258610680 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no, it doesn't. < 1258610685 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't? < 1258610687 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1258610691 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... < 1258610693 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shite < 1258610697 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258610721 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not directly < 1258610724 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I was able to come up with an upper bound on the size. < 1258610787 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_omega? < 1258610809 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... it totally does put an upper bound in the size, start with any cell, because we have a polyamino, we can connect it to any other cell, therefore there's a line to any other cell < 1258610824 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: aleph_(omega+1). < 1258610837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't have 8032 cells because blah < 1258610845 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_(omega+n) for any natural number or aleph number or aleph_omega number n? < 1258610846 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wait, what's your upper bound, then? < 1258610856 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 8032 at least :D < 1258610863 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258610874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe like 4016^2 < 1258610874 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: aleph_(omega*2), if I read that correctly. < 1258610890 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very good at thinking while ircing < 1258610897 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_(omega^n) for any natural number or aleph number or aleph_omega number n? < 1258610923 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: wait, I interpreted your question as if you had said "for any natural number n". < 1258610967 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, n can't be an aleph number, so I'll continue to interpret your questions as if you had said that. < 1258610973 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: aleph_(omega^omega). < 1258610981 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, if you can't bound the thing in a 2008x2008 box, then there are two cells at least 2008 away from each other < 1258610993 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those cells are connected by some line < 1258611001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be of length at least 2008 < 1258611002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err shit < 1258611007 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make those 4016 < 1258611026 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just "floodfill" them into a partition < 1258611031 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having names for infinite numbers is stupid, especially considering that basically you have "the biggest natural number" and now you've got names fo rnumbers bigger than it < 1258611049 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it touches the edges of a 4016x2008 box, you can cut it into two dinosaurs. < 1258611051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't have that < 1258611063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258611068 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, if its height is at least 4016. < 1258611070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there, a bound < 1258611081 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: well, these are called ordinal numbers. < 1258611091 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they're useful in some way. < 1258611101 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: kinda like graphs are stupid because now you basically have a "branching" natural number < 1258611110 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural numbers can't branch! < 1258611122 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"branching"? < 1258611130 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: nm < 1258611137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphs branch < 1258611140 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: represent a natural number as a series of connected dots. < 1258611165 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're connected, are they still dots? < 1258611168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: i'm just saying infinity is not a natural number, therefore it doesn't have to follow the axioms, kinda like graphs. < 1258611224 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: you know, if you had pushed enough, you would have reached the limits of my notation. < 1258611247 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, that's why it's stupid < 1258611253 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1258611264 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the biggest number, and you also have that many numbers bigger than it < 1258611298 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should come up with a notation that can express every ordinal number*. < 1258611304 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258611311 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Except those outside our (countable) model of ZFC. < 1258611442 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders.
< 1258611502 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let [\x, E], where E is an expression in x, mean "the smallest ordinal number greater than E for all natural numbers x". < 1258611553 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"expression"? < 1258611562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming you don't mean E : N -> N < 1258611572 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because that would make no sense < 1258611576 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1258611616 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not define "expression", because that word is one of the Words Whose Meanings You're Supposed To Know Already of mathematics. < 1258611665 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense, i'll be quiet because it'd be embarrassing if you found out i don't know what it means < 1258611714 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other WWMYSTKA: "variable", "free variable", "function", "relation", "axiom", . . . < 1258613161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258613278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: are you sure the problem wasn't to find the greatest possible primitive dinosaur? < 1258613313 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i vaguely recall you talking about a plus-shaped dinosaur and saying you couldn't prove it's the biggest possible < 1258613326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, really vaguely. < 1258613414 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...the most basic being to enumerate polyominoes of a given size. No formula has been found except for special classes of polyominoes." < 1258613434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it could be a simpler problem, in theory < 1258613469 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought i'd check because it looks a bit like the problem of non self-intersecting paths < 1258613713 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258613713 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258613906 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given an infinite board size, would go be turing complete? < 1258614556 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.answers.com/topic/exptime < 1258614592 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258614592 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258614787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok < 1258614879 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1258615035 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augie < 1258615166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Wiki/index.php/2007_USAMO_Problems/Problem_4 < 1258615175 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think i was right < 1258615201 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool solutions, now i don't have to waste a day on it < 1258608216 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258608216 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258608347 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258608358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and since it visits a corner infinitely many times, it must visit the exterior of the rectangle." <<< what if it always goes back to the interior after visiting the corner? < 1258608387 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's a corner < 1258608421 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you might have it, but then you are considering something a triviality that i don't, at least compared to the other facts you mention there. < 1258608446 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 53 < 1258608447 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's something like that, of course you need to show a reason why you go off the cycle, for any cycle there might be < 1258617599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258621683 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258621683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously there needs to be a cycle, because there needs to be a repetition of global state) < 1258621700 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now -> < 1258621716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, you did not mention the "trick" < 1258621719 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1258621735 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, the trick. < 1258621915 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find the leftmost cell of the topmost row. (Heh, "topmost".) This cell must be entered from the bottom and exited from the right, or vice versa, and it must alternate between these. And... < 1258622173 0 :neuDialect!n=IceChat7@ip-85-161-170-85.eurotel.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258623894 0 :neuDialect!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258624047 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258626450 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-27-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258626592 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258627271 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258628569 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258629124 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258629132 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258629308 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258629433 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258630532 0 :migomipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-jmohybvbfddhpgqc JOIN :#esoteric < 1258631754 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: where exactly does the ant go to a new cell? < 1258631775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to alternate between those, then what? < 1258631842 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see where that differs from proving that an ant that always turns right and doesn't change cell state always sees an infinite amount of cells... < 1258631943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there was another, even simpler one i had to do, for each L in RE, find a language N in R and a homomorphism h such that L = h(N) < 1258631969 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are so lazy < 1258632110 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm so tired i'm pretty sure no one except the lecturer understood my mumblings < 1258632290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this guy on the course who has sofar gotten every yes/no proof the wrong way around, i'm beginning to think he's doing it on purpose < 1258632329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a statement of some sort. < 1258632341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what sort exactly? < 1258632354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of protest, maybe? < 1258632363 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be... < 1258632368 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too hard"? :P < 1258632388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "too meaningless". < 1258632401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard some grumblings like that. < 1258632419 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very concrete question whether RE and R are closed under homomorphisms and inverse homomorphisms < 1258632430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it? < 1258632458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, ours is a *technical* university, not some fancy-pants science-making factory. < 1258632474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a technical university technically not an university? < 1258632510 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly sure how technical universities differ from normal ones < 1258632536 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our cs department does a lot of "non basic" research, like simply finding practical algos for medical purposes and shit < 1258632550 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "perustutkimus" in english < 1258632558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementary research maybe < 1258632576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen "basic research" used. Or fundamental. < 1258632585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. well they do a lot of non-that < 1258632598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applied, then. < 1258632605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i suppose. < 1258632637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applied and eval'd research! Though I guess the latter doesn't really mean anything. :/ < 1258632667 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's eval'd after peer review < 1258632719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A beer-reviewed journal is a good place to publish in. < 1258632721 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althoughi'm not sure that's a very intelligent play on words < 1258632724 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*although i'm < 1258632744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke must be used a lot in student magazines < 1258632779 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems not < 1258632791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google would know < 1258632830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results 1 - 10 of about 105 for "beer-reviewed journal". It is not so clever, no. < 1258632846 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must not be < 1258632860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't slept yet < 1258632866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The google summary-snippets are sometimes very interesting. "For more on this subject see my beer-reviewed journal article entitled Earth, Earth, the Magical Fruit. Our current climate computer model accurately ..." < 1258632885 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258632942 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i've been trying to get up and get food for 20 minutes now < 1258632950 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries
< 1258633067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "oklofok fries", possibly because that's not such an unlikely act for the topic of food-getting. < 1258633141 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly microwave things. < 1258633193 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when i haven't slept < 1258633199 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would just burn myself < 1258633208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i tried to use the more technical machines < 1258633216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fry, you fools. Somehow today my brain is wired to generate phrases like that without explicitly trying to, and I can't seem to turn it off. < 1258633272 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a pretty phrase < 1258633296 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was in the trailer of mcdonald's - the movie < 1258633917 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258635526 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258636336 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258639244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer-review? < 1258639264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, apparently they're adding function pointers to Java < 1258639398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? what's wrong with passing a class around all the time? < 1258639428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and hi ais523 < 1258639431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you ever /written/ Java? < 1258639452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it avoids four lines of boilerplate every time you want to create any sort of callback < 1258639455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. But I have read it. < 1258639466 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four lines is O(1) < 1258639466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and duh. I wasn't serious < 1258639471 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't matter < 1258639479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: yes, but O(1) is still annoying when you have to write it n times < 1258639482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was sarcastic < 1258639494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1258639503 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only O(n), if you work on a team that's easily resolved < 1258639569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: it's still worse than the alternative < 1258639588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the things people should learn from computer science is that O(n^3) is faster than O(1) for small enough n and large enough 1 < 1258639613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't you make a macro to do it < 1258639622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could in theory use a preprocessor for java < 1258639629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that would be horrific style, and also you'd need to run a separate preprocessor < 1258639638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I said that just above < 1258639644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that kind-of makes me want to write .java.m4 files now < 1258639657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was thinking about abusing cpp < 1258639666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, m4 is better if you want to abuse something, it's Turing-complete < 1258639683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1258639686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could combine it with my indentation style designed to annoy everyone equally < 1258639693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and create a language designed to annoy everyone equally < 1258639701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the m4 would annoy Java fans, the Java would annoy everyone else) < 1258639711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for this web mail system. I have a limit of 50 MB, of which I'm currently using -506KB < 1258639713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to it < 1258639722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258639734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "Sun ONE Messenger Express", used for the university < 1258639734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be incredibly funny if it were storing the number of bytes used in a signed 32-bit integer < 1258639745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not /quite/ outside the realm of plausible stupidity < 1258639757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, adding up the column for all mails in the inbox give me plus 506 KB < 1258639760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not minus < 1258639767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258639774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my explanation better < 1258639777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so just the sign is inverted somewhere < 1258639987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in a formal English letter, what would you write above your name? "Regards"? < 1258639990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else < 1258640002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a complicated set of rules that nobody can remember < 1258640010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from people who write formal letters for a living < 1258640041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's either "Yours sincerely" or "Yours faithfully" depending on what form of address you used for the recipient up near the top < 1258640046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, lets say I'm writing to one of the teachers at university, one who happens to not be a native Swedish speaker and prefers to receive mail in English thus. < 1258640046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forget the exact circumstances < 1258640063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is there a need for the letter to be really formal? < 1258640092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I guess you could go even more formal. < 1258640100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the answer is: no < 1258640126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for address at the top, it is an email ;P < 1258640151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that wasn't what you meant) < 1258640200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valediction#English < 1258640215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Valediction"? < 1258640240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the name for the bit at the bottom of a letter where you sign your name < 1258640257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going off to a meeting for a while < 1258640259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258640263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya < 1258640650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, funny thing: Now when I sent an additonal mail the count went down further. It seems that I actually get -512 KB when I take (sum of sizes of mails in "Inbox") - (sum of sizes of mails in "Sent"). < 1258640675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what would happen if I used any other folder < 1258640692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would divide or multiply by them? XD < 1258643544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, basic rule for formal letters is "yours sincerely" when you know the other person's name, and "yours faithfully" when you don't < 1258643728 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258644117 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258644121 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258644171 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258644485 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1258644647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1258645529 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258646177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1258647708 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258647714 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258649624 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@94.191.162.120.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258649997 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258651465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258651657 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258654136 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258655677 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258657433 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258657647 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258658068 0 :|MigoMipo|!i=kvirc@95.209.90.54.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258658448 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258660018 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258660457 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258660629 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258660910 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1258661092 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258663398 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664094 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664133 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664239 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258664239 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258664240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258664240 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258664303 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1258664313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258664320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258664320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1258664325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1258664330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it before I went away to eat < 1258664335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you weren't here then < 1258664349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also I just saw the most horrible pun in a product name in Swedish < 1258664360 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664360 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664360 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, want to hear it? < 1258664383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okej < 1258664388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, < 1258664403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vet du vad "nässprej" är? (Är det samma på norska?) < 1258664414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nesespray < 1258664424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i alla fall så såg jag en sådan med namnet "Renässans" < 1258664434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258664434 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258664451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a double pun... ren- also has something to do with nose < 1258664457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1258664462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rhin- < 1258664468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in fact it was: "Renässans Plus+" < 1258664475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes the + after the "Plus") < 1258664501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "rhin-"? not in Swedish at least. Maybe latin? < 1258664506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greek < 1258664516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one such spray called rhinox < 1258664524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258664536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you call such a spray in English? < 1258664572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it's also a transformers character < 1258664581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is? < 1258664586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Renässans? < 1258664589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rhinox" < 1258664591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258664610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_spray < 1258664693 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258664769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nosehelper! < 1258664779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did you get that from? < 1258664822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was this Assembly 99 "wild demo" compo (basically a movie of anything at all) third-place-winner. < 1258664838 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258664841 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1258664881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258664925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was about an imaginary nose hair trimmer tool. (In fact it was a small one of those "plasma lamps" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_globe -- you must've seen one. You sort of rubbed your nose against it, and presumably it removed some nose hair or something.) < 1258664935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also came with a full-sized car battery. Mobility!) < 1258664962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: the description is based on my very fallible and vague memories; I haven't been able to find the video file anywhere.) < 1258664984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's in youtube now. < 1258664994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploaded September 14, 2009. That's synchronicity for you! < 1258665014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable side effects: May set your nose hairs on fire. If so, try sneezing. < 1258665016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AleEMZl5bQI -- it is unfortunately only in Finnish, I think. (I don't have speakers connected.) < 1258665028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err... what was the point of that video < 1258665039 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258665051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact it doesn't seem to be just a nose hair trimmer; it helps in any nose-related problems. < 1258665054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point? < 1258665076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258665079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well was was it for then < 1258665119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258665127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that word? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketch_comedy < 1258665131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258665179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah Finnish only < 1258665216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a completely irrelevant bit of trivia: I think that female "announcer" person is the daughter of the former (and longtime) editor-in-chief of Finland's arguably largest computer-tech-related magazine. < 1258665312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(333000 readers, a circulation of 93364 copies.) < 1258665445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the "Assembly 99 "wild demo"" thingy about? < 1258665465 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258665560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's where that video was an entry in. < 1258665562 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1258665579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what was "assembly 99" about? < 1258665587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not about assembly programming I guess? < 1258665594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly is a demoparty, 99 is the year 1999. < 1258665598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A demoscene party thing; I'm *sure* I've mentioned Assembly here. < 1258665653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm unable to see what this video had to do with "assembly programming" and "demo". I would expect some computer generated 3D thingy or such instead. < 1258665715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like I said, it's a wild compo entry. < 1258665716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those can be anything. < 1258665719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually some fraction is just generic parody video style stuff. < 1258665737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And others are very vaguely computer-related, and some more directly. < 1258665749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they've been messing around with the categories lately. < 1258665789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youscope was a not too shabby one; it was a demo-style thing displayed on the screen of an oscilloscope connected to a computer sound card. < 1258665815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g and so on. < 1258665927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently (well, in 2009) the category split was so that "Real Wild demo" entries must be "anything that can run realtime graphics", and there was a separate "short film" category for not-programmed stuff. < 1258666019 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most soundcards (and other players) seem to have a lowpass filter at about half of the samplerate" <-- that sounds rather like Information Theory 101 < 1258666204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem part is unarguably "Information Theory 101" content; but it is a non-obvious consequence (though admittedly not so unexpected) that people actually add separate low-pass filters in. < 1258666222 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1258666271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would the low-pass filter block? Surely the card can't produce any frequencies above half the sample rate? < 1258666280 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it blocks the sharp transitions < 1258666293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure; for recording it obviously makes sense. < 1258666397 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258666618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *might* (and this is pure speculation) be there to filter out any D/A converter-caused high-frequency artifacts or noise, since (like you say) only the frequencies below half the sample rate can possibly contain any meaningful information. < 1258666633 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258666654 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. to turn the steppiness of the digitiser into smooth waves < 1258666671 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we *want* the steppiness for the oscilloscope < 1258666770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've completely forgotten all the low-level signal processing delta-sigma-based DAC constructions. "A typical DAC converts the abstract numbers into a concrete sequence of impulses that are then processed by a reconstruction filter using some form of interpolation to fill in data between the impulses." It might be that the reconstruction filter is tuned to drop high frequencies there. < 1258667889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did they manage those shapes? I wasn't aware they could do that < 1258667946 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS was in XY mode < 1258667959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you just plot points with an appropriate signal < 1258667999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258668080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, do those things use CRTs or what? < 1258668206 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oscilloscopes use CRTs traditionally < 1258668311 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258668877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they pretty much linearly map the input voltages into X/Y deflection. < 1258668885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though modern ones are pretty digital. < 1258668945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about x/y how would you use voltage for *both*? < 1258668958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in XY mode < 1258668962 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two input wires? < 1258668965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for both in the XY mode; like Youscope did. < 1258668966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1258668967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, oh right < 1258668977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one from the left channel, one from the right < 1258668978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left and right stereo channels in this case. < 1258668981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaaa I am slow. < 1258668985 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258669024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something so romantic about oscilloscopes. < 1258669029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those knobs to twiddle, you know. < 1258669071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258669098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best part of the electronics lab course, and the DSP hardware course, was that one got to mess around with an oscilloscope. < 1258669241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and they sell those PC-based "oscilloscopes", or data-acquisition devices, nowadays; now that's as boring as anything, just a block you connect wires to, an USB cable to, and then run some messy Windows GUI app. < 1258669270 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-( < 1258669280 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom hardware is so much more fun! < 1258669294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, windows? :( < 1258669300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be ok if it worked with linux < 1258669325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's not like I have done a thorough study; some of them might have Linux capabilities too. < 1258669332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason my work email address gets a lot of spam about data acquisition devices, though. < 1258669343 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need a DAD? < 1258669436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows® 7, Vista, XP or Windows® 2000 operating system" for the first google-hit, USBee: http://www.usbee.com/dx.html#PC < 1258669481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course those can do a lot more tricks than your old 1970s CRT oscilloscope; for example, decode and visualize communications protocols. < 1258669528 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258669567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linux drivers for PicoScope 2000, 3000 and 5000 Series USB Oscilloscopes < 1258669567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At Pico we were one of the first test and measurement companies to provide Linux drivers. We hope that these new drivers for the PicoScope 2000, 3000 and 5000 Series of USB Oscilloscopes demonstrates our continued commitment to the Linux platform. < 1258669567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These drivers have been extensively tested on Fedora 8, Ubuntu 8.04 and openSUSE 10.3." < 1258669578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not *completely* Windows-only. < 1258669606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the drivers are binary-only blobs and possibly do not include any sort of real application in there. < 1258669630 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1258669817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Chrome OS source available... < 1258669860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May have to play with it sometime later. < 1258669911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258670951 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258671072 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-6-190.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258671306 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1258671715 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-102.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1258671999 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258672160 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258672359 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258672455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd ~ < 1258672455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls < 1258672456 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -la < 1258672458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd < 1258672459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd ~ < 1258672462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls < 1258672463 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1258672466 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258672471 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps himself
< 1258672475 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1258672489 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, my bad my bad < 1258672726 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than the time I tried to login in as root and run shutdown without turning the screen on < 1258672731 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1258672737 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258672961 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** ERROR: Too much concurrent IRC input. Shedding load. ** < 1258673167 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that channel wasn't logged, SimonRC? < 1258673550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!seen ais523 < 1258673556 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bah, had to try) < 1258673623 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258673627 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258673638 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!seen"? < 1258673692 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bot command < 1258673867 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nomicers" ?? < 1258673912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic-ers < 1258673964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a no-micer himself
< 1258674162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nom-icers may not be unheard of either < 1258674805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently ais523 hasn't been here in about six hours < 1258674816 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, nothing hugely important to report anyways ;-) < 1258674975 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258675685 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258675694 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258675983 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258677237 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258677477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258678168 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258679440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258679560 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any sufficiently long string on an alphabet of 22 (or 26 or any size) has Unavoidable regularities < 1258679624 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258679639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey_theory < 1258679690 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an n-pigeon? < 1258679693 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258679756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such term in the article < 1258679779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i read it first, your comment just reminded me of this < 1258679859 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose, for example, that we know that n pigeons have been housed in m pigeonholes. How big must n be before we can be sure that at least one pigeonhole houses at least two pigeons? The answer is the pigeonhole principle: if n > m, then at least one pigeonhole will have at least two pigeons in it. Ramsey's theory generalizes this principle as explained below. < 1258679901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n and m are integer variables < 1258679996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, natural number variables < 1258680049 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258680089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Van der Waerden's theorem mentioned there seems like it applies to such strings on alphabets (set letters = colors) < 1258680614 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258680704 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-194.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258680725 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258680893 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258680895 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1258682054 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258682093 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258684217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258684366 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258684993 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258685032 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258685616 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258685620 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258685632 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258685709 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258686118 0 :augur!n=augur@216.164.33.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258687926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258688802 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258692429 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77.100.194.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258692677 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258692772 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258692874 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258692998 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258693331 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258693431 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258693973 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258694977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258695013 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258695715 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258699308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1258701365 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258701539 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258703999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258704000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258705660 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258705761 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-96-11.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258705858 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258708075 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.53.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258708079 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join #lojban < 1258708093 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, missed the / buttom again! < 1258708097 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :button.... < 1258708427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MigoMipo, I think "key" is more usual for the keyboard buttons :P < 1258708443 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1258708456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't take it personal) < 1258708469 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No problem! < 1258708639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MigoMipo, are you by any chance from Sweden. considering /whois output < 1258708663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I think I can add another Swede to the list in this channel. Hurra! < 1258708686 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Hur många svenskar är det i kanalen? < 1258708736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... Jag, du, Firefly, olsner, och kanske någon jag missade som inte är här så ofta. < 1258708762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there are more Finns than Swedes though < 1258709040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure about that; there's just me, Deewiant, Ilari and ineiros. That I know, anyway. < 1258709066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, and oklopol. < 1258709078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just so unnoticeable! < 1258709188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe you can count fungot as Finnish too, though he definitely hasn't got nationality officially. < 1258709189 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they say that the ladies were accustomed to wearing luxurious clothings and so he flew along the row stinging all the nicest things in this dungeon. < 1258709215 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-194.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258709222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They" say curious things. < 1258709346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1258709347 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1258709367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah what the hell was that a mix of < 1258709456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a moment, collecting evidence. < 1258709734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They say that" from one of the rumours, "that the ladies were accustomed to" from T.H. White via the 'cornuthaum' description, "accustomed to wearing luxurious clothings and so he" from Master Kaen description (about I-Hsiu), "he flew along the row stinging all the" from 'xan' description, "all the nicest things in this" from C.S. Lewis via 'orange' and finally "this dungeon" from one of two rumours that contain it. < 1258709786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258709819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah the first and the last parts were not very strange < 1258709839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a collection. I would have though at least the "ladies were accustomed to wearing luxurious clothings" part would've come from one source, since it was so coherent, but apparently not. < 1258710978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258711248 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258711248 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258712043 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258712043 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1258713931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, why isn't oerjan here when you "need" him,. < 1258713934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,// < 1258713936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258713962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s:/,//:/m,/m/: < 1258714242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s#m,/m#,\./.# -- it's more cryptic-looking that way, and works as well. < 1258714295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would that be applied to the regex correcting the regex? < 1258714310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1258714338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would be even more cryptic looking if you used / in the correction of the correction :P < 1258714375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, but since you already started with the non-standard delimiters, I just used my own standard non-standard one. < 1258714434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just because I was lazy, I considered using / to begin with < 1258714458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258714466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you used . for the delimiter < 1258714481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would s/./a/ be s.\..a. < 1258714482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then? < 1258714485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about < 1258714491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\./a/ < 1258714493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be: < 1258714504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be s.\\\..a. < 1258714508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just two? < 1258714512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, does it even work? < 1258714525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about using \ for the delimiter < 1258714530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(augh my head!) < 1258714531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1258714546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods sed
< 1258714601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258714606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/./a/ seems to map to s.\..a. < 1258714622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm unable to get something that is s/\./a/ using . for deimilter < 1258714625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delimiter* < 1258714661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with \ as the delimiter, my sed seems to do it but then you can't use any escapes in there. < 1258714690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. haven't tried \ as delimiter yet < 1258714700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have gnu sed I won't need to either < 1258714792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU sed version 4.1.5. It's a bit strange, though, that s.\..a. works like s/./a/. I would have guessed it to do s/\./a/, but it doesn't. < 1258714798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know how to get a literally-matching-a-. when . is the delimiter. < 1258714831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably a "don't do this then" < 1258714873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well; you can do s.[\.].a. to get s/\.a/a/-like behaviour. < 1258714875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, another funny delimiter would be s < 1258714884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1258714934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-punctuation delimiters look pretty strange, especially with options. "ss\.sasg" doesn't exactly seem so regexpy at first glance. < 1258714955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does gnu sed have the ability to do negative lookbehind? < 1258714965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ss\ss/sg | sed 'ss\ss/sg' < 1258714965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://///g < 1258714968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work like I wanted < 1258714976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and I think irc client ate one / there) < 1258715002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does much more than POSIX basic regular expressions. < 1258715009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh" < 1258715019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to match s not preceded by \ then < 1258715031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even with negative lookbehind you couldn't handle \\ < 1258715035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or POSIX extended with the "-r" flag, but those aren't *that* much extended. < 1258715040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1258715135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't match "s not preceded by \", true, but you can match "start of line or a non-\ character in subgroup 1, followed by s", and then use \1 backref in the substitution; that is usually enough. < 1258715163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should try to find some existing English word that forms a valid sed expression < 1258715170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s one only for now) < 1258715248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one posix BRE that changes any unescaped s's into X's, though it fails for "\\s". < 1258715253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ echo 's foo \s bar s and s' | sed -e 's:\(^\|[^\\]\)s:\1X:g' < 1258715253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X foo \s bar X and X < 1258715253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -E '^s([a-z]).*\1.*\1g?$' /usr/share/dict/words < 1258715296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is one weird word in that list: "symphytically" < 1258715301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it isn't spelled that way < 1258715317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I get 273 matches < 1258715350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My /usr/share/dict/words has just 39 matches, with no "symphytically" in it. < 1258715399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, webster-based? < 1258715408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/dict/README claims mine is < 1258715411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "sentence" I could see used somewhere; s/nt/nc/ sounds like something someone has done. Would be a nice obfuscation trick to replace that with "$foo =~ sentence;" < 1258715440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed it would < 1258715487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the list I get is http://sprunge.us/eUWI < 1258715498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu "wamerican" package: "The Debian English word lists (wamerican*, wbritish*, wcanadian*) -- are all built from the upstream SCOWL word lists." < 1258715505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit small list. < 1258715519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258715529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how small? < 1258715540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -l /usr/share/dict/words < 1258715540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :234937 /usr/share/dict/words < 1258715543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1258715544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98569 lines. < 1258715550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite a bit smaller < 1258715601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, severe also sounds probable. s/v/r/ < 1258715604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe < 1258715625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my regex was wrong < 1258715658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with corrected regex I get 253 matches (.+ instead of .*) < 1258715673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm also I think that really should be [^\1+] < 1258715675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258715681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^\1]+ < 1258715686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that works < 1258716041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I can't find type counts for our text corpuses; we have this LDC Gigaword corpus, built out of about 1756504000 whitespace-separated tokens of English, I'm sure you could make quite a large word list out of that one. < 1258716055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1258716056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -E '^s([a-z]).+\1.+\1g?$' /usr/share/dict/words | grep -Ev '^s([a-z]).*\1.*\1.*\1' < 1258716057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1258716314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -ne 'print if /^s([a-z])(?:(?!\1).)+\1(?:(?!\1).)+\1g?$/;' < /usr/share/dict/words < 1258716319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do it with a single regex. < 1258716324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly pretty that way. < 1258716411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah. what is ?: now again... Non-capturing? < 1258716418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ?! would be... um? < 1258716444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?: is the non-capturing group, right, you could use plain () there just fine. And ?! is the negative zero-width lookahead. < 1258716484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1258716489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (?:(?!\1).)+ will match one of more "any character"s, as long as the contents of the first group don't start at that point. < 1258716497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1258716499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems wrong < 1258716507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait no it doesn't < 1258717467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1258718473 0 :|MigoMipo|!i=kvirc@95.209.106.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258718520 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258718538 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1258718743 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258719991 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258720225 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258720226 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1258721539 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1258722113 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258725782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258726736 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258727078 0 :ineiros_!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258727552 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258727776 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258728067 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258728274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sigh, why isn't oerjan here when you "need" him,. < 1258728280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil prescience. < 1258728632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc! < 1258729124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOIOF doesn't often get work, but when he does he really gets overworked... < 1258729189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1258729213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah < 1258729246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, has anyone actually died *permanently* from him yet? < 1258729297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that black guy in james stud, i think < 1258729335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although what happened to him when the universe was restarted, hm... oh wait that theme was the only one not affected < 1258729372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*espionage < 1258729403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed < 1258729422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, has there been any crossovers at all with the james stud theme and any other theme? < 1258729481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the me theme it seems < 1258729483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me and Death are the only ones listed < 1258729496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and death yeah < 1258729510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait also imperial rome < 1258729515 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258729550 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-4-241.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258729560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was really a dubious one < 1258729603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, except it shows DOIOF _was_ cheated out of even that one, after the fact :D < 1258729613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, imperial rome/espionage crossover or what? < 1258729618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258729622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1258729632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to find it in the list < 1258729632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1178.html < 1258729644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there it is < 1258729658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the list is triangular to avoid duplicates, you have to look both horizontal and vertical < 1258729658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was reading the wrong column
< 1258729668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah I did, but I was one column off < 1258729755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway there are lots of possible ways to continue even after he got all possible crossovers. Like differentiating "crossover with two" and "crossover with three" < 1258729785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many combinations you would get that way...
< 1258729801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sounds like something for you to calculate < 1258729803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258729847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^number of themes - 1 < 1258729879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds too simple. heh < 1258729903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258729904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so space/fantasy space/death fantasy/death space/fantasy/death are all separate. < 1258729907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I meant < 1258729918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^number of themes - number of themes - 1 < 1258729922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course fantasy/space and space/fantasy would be the same < 1258729935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to subtract singular themes < 1258729940 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BYE PPL < 1258729948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: au revoir < 1258729954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, cya < 1258729958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1258729959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1258729960 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1258729979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could have crossover with itself actually. For those that had time travel. < 1258729981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258729995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1258729995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space would have had that already < 1258730005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mythbusters < 1258730008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258730010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about pirates? < 1258730017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that telephone booth thingy < 1258730024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1258730034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what happened to it after end of universe < 1258730058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do that there is no limit, since you can crossover any number of copies of a theme < 1258730079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258730116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, maybe each theme can appear 0-2 times? How many possibilities is there then? As in space/space/fantasy/death/death and such? < 1258730135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^number of themes - number of themes - 1 < 1258730138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be rather contrived!) < 1258730208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simple crossover (no self-crossover) there would (if I counted correctly) be 2^16-16-1 possible crossovers < 1258730233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many years would it take if he started today and managed one such every day? < 1258730243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't forget leap years!) < 1258730279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just divide by 365.2425 < 1258730318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like 179.384... years < 1258730320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258730542 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258732237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258733269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. Deewiant there? < 1258733285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I was able to access a machine with SSE 4.2 < 1258733299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the new CRC32c hardware thingy < 1258733331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I tried to use that for cfunge (removing use of static area temporarily to be able to see how much was gained in the hash library part) < 1258733355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1258733370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pure hash on that system mycology took and average of 0.055 seconds when using old CRC code < 1258733380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the hardware bit it was down to an average of 0.035 < 1258733393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with static area it runs at around 0.020 on that < 1258733402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye, that kind of speedup can be expected < 1258733405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a dual CPU (each quad core) system < 1258733421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't really matter since cfunge is single-threaded < 1258733423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, /proc/cpuinfo is 400 lines long on that < 1258733433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but make -j16 takes like 2 seconds! < 1258733439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has hyperthreading) < 1258733444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5520 @ 2.27GHz < 1258733454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, does cpuinfo list the hyperthreads as well? < 1258733463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep it does < 1258733482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains that; I was wondering why it was that long < 1258733519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, with static area it is only marginally faster than my core 2 duo laptop < 1258733541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is: model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26GHz) < 1258733558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, since funge code tends to stress memory more than CPU < 1258733572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the xeon has larger cache though < 1258733580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and is less loaded currently < 1258733589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it's marginally faster, not slower. < 1258733596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1258733628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for a CPU where the entire mycology can fit inside L2 (or L3)
< 1258733638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire mycology code* < 1258733640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge access patterns aren't the linear kind that CPU caches like, so it doesn't help that much unless it fits everything < 1258733680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, in the static area you will get linear when you go < or > but not other directions < 1258733687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it is stored currently I mean) < 1258733700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that won't help for reading data from elsewhere < 1258733709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that typically lasts for at most a couple dozen accesses, not hundreds. < 1258733717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you're jumping randomly again. < 1258733728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1258733730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, good point, p and g and their cousins will mess things up as well. < 1258733750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hash libraries are very unfriendly anyway < 1258733769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to cache I mean < 1258733790 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was thinking only of array storage. < 1258733796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah < 1258733816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw you can't use valgrind on the hardware CRC32 one < 1258733830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vex amd64->IR: unhandled instruction bytes: 0xF2 0x48 0xF 0x38 0xF1 0x7 < 1258733832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258733842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it errors out < 1258733853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(currently, I assume this will be fixed soon) < 1258733866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(me should try out trunk on that system and then possibly report a bug < 1258733869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1258733877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was supposed to be / not ( < 1258734010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, as far as I can tell it works but I don't trust it to be correct. Like: I have been unable to find if the initial value should be something specific or such < 1258734028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like it should for normal crc < 1258734232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh I think I can reduce it even more by making it inline it instead... < 1258734344 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :|prettyboy < 1258734361 0 :|prettyboy!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Pthing < 1258734901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258737170 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258738480 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258738488 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258739070 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258741050 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258748751 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258748751 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258750889 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258752962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1258752966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258752987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to find the reference/manual/extras CD for CodeWarrior on classic mac < 1258752996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to include a Perl for mac for example < 1258752998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems useful < 1258753014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a CodeWarrior<->MPW bridge of some sort < 1258753044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the experimental parts are stored in a funny folder name < 1258753048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thrill Seekers" < 1258753153 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258753538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hey there is even an Eiffel compiler here < 1258753559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1258753564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that? < 1258753575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the meaning < 1258753584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know it was a `) < 1258753637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it means that I've heard what you've said, and I think it's interesting, but I don't think any reply but ` is particularly necessary < 1258753666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so the definition of it is recursive? < 1258753673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1258753702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really, its definition mentions itself, not uses itself < 1258753724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great an actual hex editor, that is useful, at one point I was seriously considering writing my own for MacOS < 1258753730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a function void(*f)()(void) { return (void(*)())f; } in C < 1258753734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which returns a pointer to itself < 1258753777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a reason I use typedefs when dealing with function pointers in C < 1258753788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is being able to understand what the heck is going on :P < 1258753792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, they're not too hard once you get used to them < 1258753812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I might have missed a pair of parens in there somewhere < 1258753818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, void(*f)()(void) < 1258753821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit looks wrong < 1258753835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks not like a function returning a function pointer < 1258753854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer void(*f)(void)(void) < 1258753870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using void(*)() as a generic function pointer type there < 1258753875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or might as well bracket it up a bit more and (void)(*f)(void)(void) < 1258753876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you aren't allowed to cast function pointers to non-function pointers < 1258753887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a bit more readable. But I would actually use a typedef < 1258753900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can just worry about that in one place < 1258753930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also is that cast of f strictly necessary in the return? As far as I know it shouldn't be < 1258753942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is, can you work out why? < 1258753958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the void bit? < 1258753967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's to do with data types < 1258753979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function can't return a pointer to itself without casting it to an incompatible type < 1258753992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as otherwise you'd need a type function returning (function returning (function returning (function returning... < 1258754002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wondered why the name of the thing you were defining with function pointers were written in such a weird place < 1258754007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the worst bit IMO < 1258754009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a cast to convert a pointer to a different incompatible one < 1258754014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's because the declaration reflects the use < 1258754028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you mean? < 1258754030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to call the function returned by f, you'd write (*f)()(); < 1258754033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a void < 1258754061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the way you write the declaration is exactly the same as the code to get a basic data type out of it as an expression, possibly with extra voids added < 1258754193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw I'm using netscape in sheepshaver, because MSIE crashes it. (And there is only one other alternative and that is icab, which is shareware) < 1258754196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, the syntax you used to define the function /was/ wrong < 1258754211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be (*f()), not (*f)() < 1258754227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thought I was missing a pair of parens somewhere < 1258754234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd accidentally put them in the wrong place < 1258754263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain void(*f)()(void); < 1258754264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare f as pointer to function returning function (void) returning void < 1258754264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain void(*f())(void); < 1258754264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare f as function returning pointer to function (void) returning void < 1258754274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, got it < 1258754275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1258754314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like cdecl's help texts: explain < 1258754354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmh, my cdecl binary at school no longer works due to missing libreadline version 5, and nobody's bothered to package it for Arch so I haven't bothered to install it at home < 1258754364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later they define the nonterminal: "gibberish: a C declaration, like 'int *x', or cast, like '(int *)x'". The examples might not be very gibberishy, but I still like the word. < 1258754536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++decl> declare x as array 4 of const pointer to member of class X function (pointer to function (int) returning int) returning void < 1258754536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void (X::* const x[4])(int (*)(int )) < 1258754543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Member-pointers are so wonky too. < 1258754622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, barely wonkier than the standard function pointers < 1258754651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty wonky how their sizes vary so very very much. < 1258754681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame wonky compilers for that < 1258754702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a page about the various bits in there, but can't find it right now. < 1258754726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cpp/FastDelegate.aspx is a good write-up. < 1258754733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just got that opened. < 1258754747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably exactly what I was thinking of. < 1258754766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The writer has been patching the D compiler quite heavily lately. < 1258754890 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258754990 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258755279 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258755963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I think today's Dudley's Dungeon comic was written by someone with the writing style of zzo38 < 1258755980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your wish cannot be satisfacted because the computer is not yet invented, you playing NetHack would generate a paradox, it would be impossible for you to use a computer as there is no electricity here and finally that would be too expensive even for us." < 1258755994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alt.org/nethack/dudley/?f=2009.11.20 < 1258756908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1258756938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even: night → < 1258756952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd night. < 1258757056 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258757307 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258757387 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258758149 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258758381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258760299 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258761770 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracting a 4GB .rar file has taken... about as long as expected >_> < 1258761881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size after decompression? < 1258762131 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258762159 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. took 5m13.115s to extract < 1258762250 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4093296 bytes of rar files in 21 parts < 1258762294 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result being 4246796 of VOB < 1258762300 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes < 1258762317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um there's some magnitude error there... < 1258762347 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is it? 4246796/4093296 = 1.03750034 < 1258762360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather less than 4 GB < 1258762413 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what du said. I didn't do anything else to the folders but download in one, and extract in another < 1258762437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :du probably reports blocks, which may be kilobytes, or not < 1258762439 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what you mean. < 1258762463 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me adjust that < 1258762484 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4187257413 and 4344426496 respectively < 1258762521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like it. not much of a compression... < 1258762598 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty impressive when you realize that it already is a compressed video format < 1258762606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose the extracted VOBs are already compres.. right < 1258762643 0 :yaxu1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258762652 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Totem and VLC aren't too happy about the 1024 MB files, but mplayer seems to be just fine < 1258765189 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-14-250.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258766138 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258766445 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258766738 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258767685 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-164.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258769159 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258769159 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258769159 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258769329 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258769329 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-96-11.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258769329 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258771466 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258771695 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258771700 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258774290 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258774290 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258774290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258774523 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@92.139.143.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258774539 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258774541 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1258774541 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258774541 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-96-11.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258774544 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-96-11.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258775280 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258776371 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258780482 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258781176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258782729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258782754 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258783012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258783289 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258783626 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scratches his head
< 1258783647 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, how do you make a sprite system for a console/computer platform < 1258783723 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put your penis in < 1258783725 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put your penis out < 1258783732 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put your penis in and shake it all about < 1258783734 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically something 8 or 16 bit < 1258783781 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my, that's a large genital < 1258783910 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1258783946 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh, you are awfully forward < 1258783949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wish! < 1258783986 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 and 4 color sprites (that makes 1 and 3 with transparency) are ugly < 1258784000 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be at least 8 or 16 colors < 1258784092 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hblank has... about 40 avalable mem cycles. not enough. < 1258784204 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not much... that's 80 or 100 pixels wide of sprites, out of 320x < 1258784321 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using cycles for sound would reduce that... < 1258784353 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetic solution 1: go for 16 bit < 1258784725 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258784902 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-80-46.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258785009 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258785059 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258786709 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258786725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you people every play any kinds of pinball game? < 1258786810 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258787310 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258787499 0 :adu!n=ajr@pool-71-191-173-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258788598 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-167.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258789226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My PLDI paper is submitted. < 1258789228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish me luck! < 1258790317 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pldi? < 1258790399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258790400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258790734 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1258793349 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258795412 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming Language Design and Implementation < 1258795417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a top-tier conference in PL. < 1258796579 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-101.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258796827 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what is the paper one? < 1258796829 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1258796842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dynamic behavior of JavaScript programs. < 1258796889 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258796948 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@90.52.221.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258796968 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258797017 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258799376 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258799922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258800327 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258800327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258801413 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258803597 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1258803613 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@64.71.152.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258803847 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258804023 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258804638 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-167.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258806349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what is this strtok_s that is mentioned in intel cpu docs. Context: Discussing a faster SSE4.2 replacement for strtok_s < 1258806363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of any _s variant and there seems to be no man page about it < 1258806397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ones I can find are strtok() and strtok_r() < 1258806588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The _s variants are microsoftisms. < 1258806596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "_s" for "safe". < 1258806601 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX- < 1258806612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe as in thread safe? < 1258806613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, for example, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ftsafwz3%28VS.80%29.aspx < 1258806620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as in "buffer length handled better" < 1258806623 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1258806627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter, I think. < 1258806633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no X and last time I checked w3m failed *badly* at msdn < 1258806645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1258806669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it seems to work better in w3m now < 1258806671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1258806679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though in this case strtok_s seems mostly like strtok_r, since it takes that char** context pointer too. < 1258806697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be that they use _s for both "thread-safe" and "buffer-length-handled-better-safe". < 1258806772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Significant enhancements have been made to make the CRT more secure. Many CRT functions now have more secure versions. If a new secure function exists, the older, less secure version is marked as deprecated and the new version has the _s ("secure") suffix." < 1258806778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it's "_s" for "secure", not "safe". < 1258806817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8ef0s5kh%28VS.80%29.aspx which also explains what the enhancements are. < 1258806884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders what exactly "secure" means
< 1258806890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context I mean < 1258806957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I think they could manage to claim it was related to DRM. Isn't that about security. Well not for the user of course. < 1258807879 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258809329 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258809526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258809544 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258811329 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258814404 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258814476 0 :facsimile!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258814521 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-164.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258814708 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258815968 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258816153 0 :yaxu1!n=alex@93-97-14-17.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258816276 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258816757 0 :yaxu1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1258817006 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ineiros < 1258817065 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258817338 0 :yaxu1!n=alex@93-97-14-17.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258817387 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258817814 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258818096 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258818252 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258819102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258819111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1258819118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read it hours ago < 1258819131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, it was mythbusters iirc? < 1258819150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1258819158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also martians < 1258819533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1258819588 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "iwc" mean? I've seen it used in other places, but never figured out what it ment. Only things I could find with google are "Internet Wrestling Community" and "International Watch Community", and similar terms, none of which seem to fit in the context. < 1258819612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irregular webcomic < 1258819619 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258819655 0 :yaxu1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258820224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: there is the occasional wrestling though. but it's not what you think. :) < 1258820364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay this explains a lot about the odd problems I had with classic Mac OS. stdout is fully buffered and stderr is line buffered, and there are odd conventions about exit code for MPW tools. Oh and several other things < 1258820385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. ais isn't here < 1258820428 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by "fully buffered"? Nothing is output until stdout is closed/program ended? < 1258820433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Neither am I" < 1258820469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the buffer is filled. < 1258820489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Deewiant said < 1258820494 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258820515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this makes printf() debugging very confusing unless you are aware of that this is happening < 1258820535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for MPW tools it seems to cause issues if you try to change the output to be line buffered instead < 1258820558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, things behaving strange after program exits) < 1258820571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather not exits, MPW is very very very strange) < 1258820750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, imagine a system where the shell and programs share the stack and heap. Programs work more or less as the shell loading the binary and calling main(). Oh and it overrides parts of the standard C library (like exit()) to make this work. < 1258820766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW is not quite like that, but quite similar (and slightly worse) < 1258820804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and yeah, the system doesn't use an MMU either. < 1258820804 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258820824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything that goes wrong will likely require you to reboot < 1258820837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I mention that the filesystem isn't journaled? < 1258821082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, oh and the system is cooperative multitasking. < 1258821152 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some positive thinking is not always the best... < 1258821165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258821222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, oh btw since the OS doesn't use the MMU it allocates memory blocks at startup of applications (the shell mentioned being one of them). It's fixed while the program is running. To change it, quit the application and change in the info box for it, then launch it again. < 1258821271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah and the OS may decide to compact the heap behind your back unless you explicitly told it that a certain allocation can't be moved (thankfully, the malloc() interface handles that for you) < 1258821310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the system uses handles all the time instead of pointers. < 1258821376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah it is kind of like a GC on crack (it can also purge blocks if they are marked as purgeable) < 1258821393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except not very much since it won't try to find if the blocks are actually still referenced or not < 1258822125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, oh and the shell is a combined shell/editor/IDE thingy. And if you write to a file that the user happens to have open in there already the shell redirects the IO to the relevant window XD < 1258822163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the user need to save the file for the changes you made to take place then) < 1258823044 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258824484 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258825396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258827146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun... it looks like I will have to compile my own kernel when I switch to karmic at some future point on my laptop: I'm affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/300143 < 1258827192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the "broke x52" bit < 1258830342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net" < 1258831254 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258831546 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1258834519 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258834522 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258835018 0 :yaxu1!n=alex@93-97-14-17.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258836631 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258836719 0 :yaxu1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1258838172 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258838194 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258838430 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258839735 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258839742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 150 messages to go-nuts in my absence... < 1258839756 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258839963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:39 They probably take Microsoft's example. < 1258839963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:39 (valid values of one of their boolean types are 0,1, and -1. < 1258839964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:39 ) < 1258839964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:41 huh? < 1258839964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:43 seriously? < 1258839965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:19:03 microsoft is bad, but THAT bad? < 1258839966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a sociopathic corporation holding back OS development and design SURE, but a boolean which can take a value that presumably means "unknown"?! < 1258839972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE JUST AS BAD AS THE SQL COMMITTEE < 1258839982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, a few minutes from going hi to mocking AnMaster < 1258839985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting good < 1258840044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:27:03 ehird: http://www.ted.com/talks/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsense_technology.html < 1258840044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:27:23 theres a part in here that is really very much like what we were talking about < 1258840045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dw < 1258840045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:49:02 augur, is that a video site or such? I can't see any text related to things (and I'm not running X atm, so using w3m) < 1258840045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TED talks, bitch < 1258840068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:17 want opendns details < 1258840068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:20 ? < 1258840069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opendns are making you pay to remove their shit nowadays < 1258840076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use other, really open, pure-dns servers. < 1258840086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:56 how do they get enough money to keep existing? < 1258840086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$$$$ < 1258840130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04:17 hey! can you send me the link using google wave? < 1258840130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least previously our off topic talkings were by people with relation to esolangs < 1258840142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:07:12 is the program usable? for making things? < 1258840142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— #esoteric < 1258840171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:17:18 hell, I'm the one who got into arguments with conservatives at my school < 1258840172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That like, makes you the anti-conservative. Arguing at school. Hardcore. < 1258840267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:39 three facets: order, freedom, and equality < 1258840267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bad measurement. Nobody picks {freedom, equality}, for instance (no, anarchism is not chaos), and this cannot account for fascism. < 1258840323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:05:15 I'm in a bingo place < 1258840324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UpdateHeuristic(Sgeo, IQFacet, ApproxLower); < 1258840357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:12:51 Is oklofok a spambot? < 1258840357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1258840516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to adopt BFS for distro
< 1258840818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, almost certainly x86; the only things that could make me consider 64-bit are long-term improvements and the extra registers, and right now I value support of the best ThinkPads and compatibility with old executables without multilib hell over those. < 1258841097 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258841108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258841119 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258841658 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258841714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite dead atm. < 1258842128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Chromium OS came out? < 1258842665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/a6r7q/what_an_insult_to_reason_and_the_progress_of/ Onion headline: "Mormons Baptise Carl Sagan Two Years After Death" < 1258843930 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258844332 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258844377 0 :sarek_!n=varek@unaffiliated/romani JOIN :#esoteric < 1258844378 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258844382 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone worked on brainfuck compilers here < 1258844540 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably nearly everyone in this channel has written a brainfuck compiler. < 1258844677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expert on strongly-optimising brainfuck compilers is lifthrasiir; the expert on copying lifthrasiir's work on strongly-optimising brainfuck compilers and then adding their own dubious optimisations before their whole architecture crashes and burns is AnMaster. < 1258844688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expert on writing regular brainfuck compilers is everyone in here and many people not in here. < 1258844706 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258844783 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-14-250.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258844903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoken like a true someone-who-hates-AnMaster :P < 1258844943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what I said about his bf compilers is totally true regardless of that. < 1258844978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, he *did* ask lifthrasiir how the extended Euclidean algorithm worked when trying to copy his code using it. < 1258845458 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258845492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, Java IRC. < 1258845505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I am too lazy to lug a largish desktop to places) < 1258845824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're you using? < 1258845837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public terminal? < 1258846114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grandmother's PC. < 1258846198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also the first time I've used Windows 7. It appears to suck less than XP. < 1258846322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better and it's worse. Mostly better, though. < 1258846353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In distroly news, seeing as you're the only person who even remotely, vaguely cares about this stuff: < 1258846353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:55] • ehird decides to adopt BFS for distro < 1258846353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:00] ehird: Also, almost certainly x86; the only things that could make me consider 64-bit are long-term improvements and the extra registers, and right now I value support of the best ThinkPads and compatibility with old executables without multilib hell over those. < 1258846389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, as I'm writing coreutils-type things for the goblin project (coreutils in Go, pretty much; headed by plan9 junkie uriel), looks like I've found my coreutils... at least once it's ready) < 1258846611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFS? < 1258846665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seems reasonable regarding coreutils -- it's kinda hard to find non-suck coreutils for Linux. < 1258846685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest we've got is GNU coreutils, which has the following bits of non-suck: it functions. < 1258847029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closest is probably Heirloom Toolchest; at least it rabidly follows tradition instead of insanity. < 1258847061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFS is Con Kolivas' Brain Fuck Scheduler — no relation to the language except perhaps inspiration for the name — http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt < 1258847075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Improves latency and performance massively on desktop machines. < 1258847097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Con Kolivas worked on other desktop-related issues on the kernel before Leaving in a Huff(TM) in 2007, but it's easy enough to apply a patch. < 1258847163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well-maintained is BFS? Did he completely avoid Linux after the writ of FLGE? < 1258847163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also considering scheduling the X server as realtime or BFS' SCHED_ISO thingymagic to improve responsiveness under load. < 1258847174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's new; about a month or two old. < 1258847179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's well-maintained. < 1258847191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably will be for the foreseeable future, as he uses it. < 1258847204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The patch is only 219 KiB. < 1258847210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "only", but still. < 1258847212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/2.6.31-sched-bfs-310.patch < 1258847216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Alright, then. No reason not to and probably a good few good reasons to do that. < 1258847225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main file, sched_bfs.c, is just 6484 lines long. < 1258847252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if Linux had pluggable schedulers. < 1258847262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it'd actually be a useful feature. < 1258847295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ck (Con Kolivas) submitted a patch for switching scheduler at runtime. < 1258847298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel team rejected it as useless. < 1258847312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shakes a fist
< 1258847332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did you know that the Debian kernels are optimised for servers? < 1258847347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And requests for a desktop-optimised one are replied to with "No, kthxbai". < 1258847360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lwn.net/Articles/350178/ < 1258847368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly well aware that they do that by default. Didn't realise they actually avoided a desktop one. < 1258847441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably desktop-optimise the kernel and use it on servers too. < 1258847453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low latency on desktop trumps supercomputer server performance. < 1258847455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enabled the preemptive stuff the minute it was mainline for x86_64. < 1258847463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I cba fiddling with two separate kernel variations < 1258847465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also interesting from that that Debian users are twice as likely to use Gnome as KDE; I wonder if that includes Ubuntu users or not? < 1258847472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because gnome is default with debian < 1258847476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even install kde with the default installer < 1258847480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of the tickless kernel stuff... < 1258847482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah < 1258847498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BFS is actually supposed to be used with ticks, I think... < 1258847503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it really matters < 1258847528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Incidentally, BFS compiles the kernel faster than CFS. < 1258847544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/2632rc3v2631bfs303-kbuild.png < 1258847558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever so slightly but it does. < 1258847617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION skips along writing tools for goblin
< 1258847636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname is blocked because syscall.{Uname,Utsname} are undefined on amd64/darwin for some reason :/ < 1258847650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir almost works :P < 1258847659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for cat. < 1258847698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no flags! < 1258847741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not supporting POSIX, then? < 1258847779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1258847784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1258847787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Goblin isn't my project, anyway.) < 1258847792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just contributing. < 1258847800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Goblin is a recreation from scratch of the traditional Unix and Plan 9 command line tools but this time built using the Go programming language. < 1258847800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal is elegance and simplicity more than compliance with older implementations." < 1258847813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flags to cat are definitely not elegant or simple, so... < 1258847819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, not many scripts use flags to cat. < 1258847826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the goal is to be a good set of coreutils, not a POSIXly correctly coreutils. < 1258847839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't have any qualms about omitting them. < 1258848083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Personally, in the tools I'll write I'll support a really shitty thing if usage of it is ubiquitous. < 1258848095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really mind breaking a few things; my distro does enough of that already. < 1258848118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wonder what ps will look like. < 1258848130 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-50-128-165.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258848134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly since GNU ps has 3 or 4 different *types* of arguments... < 1258848135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make ps(1) portable, can you? < 1258848151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1258848159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't go in. < 1258848227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But the answer is probably: the most common stuff like [-Aaux], -G/-g/-u/-p/-t/-U, and a hack that prepends a - to the first argument without one before flag parsing. < 1258848290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it'd involve traversing /proc, wouldn't it? < 1258848297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've certainly never come across a ps syscall. < 1258848303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, yeah. < 1258848310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On other OSes, I haven't a clue. < 1258848317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't go in due to sheer nonportability. < 1258848331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same category as e.g. mount. < 1258848344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder where Linux mount comes from. < 1258848445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in util-linux. So, probably at least originally a Linux Torvalds creation... < 1258848537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the list in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Util-linux
< 1258848546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/arch? Seriously? You can make that pretty portable; it's just uname. < 1258848555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill?! Why isn't this in coreutils? < 1258848558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait... MORE? < 1258848577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, half of this stuff should belong in coreutils, and a quarter of it should be removed. < 1258848581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuff belongs < 1258848592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :util-linux is everything that coreutils didn't have that a decent Unix system should have. < 1258848605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/rev < 1258848608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking joking < 1258848617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ddate < 1258848617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am cutting myself < 1258848631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ddate and all, but putting it in the "OMG CRUCIAL LINUX-SPECIFIC STUFF" bin? < 1258848644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreutils also has arch... < 1258848657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned that before :P < 1258848662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECHNICALLY uname() isn't portable < 1258848675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on ddate: < 1258848675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People with more traditional moral values might not < 1258848676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appreciate a reference to or advertisement for this movement < 1258848676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being present on their system." < 1258848676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the bug reporter ever considered that this might be an advantage.) < 1258848693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and they mixed up Discordianism and the Church of the SubGenius to boot. < 1258848702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258848794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I just realised that my complete lack of caring about internationalisation and locales is saving me work. < 1258848794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1258848852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-English unix-like users who use internationalisation of the command-line tools: Oh, shut up. Do you want me to rename cat to ket, zany Germans?!) < 1258848876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Scientific renaming derived from taking the sixth to ninth letters of "verketten", meaning "concatenate". < 1258848899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258849846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that not using dd is shorter than using it a lot of the time
< 1258849869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=/dev/zero of=foo bs=8192 count=8192 < 1258849869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1258849869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head -c $((8192*8192)) /dev/zero >foo < 1258849881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX IS CRYING THE BLOOD OF HOW MUCH YOU HATE IT < 1258849890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you use dd, Ken Thompson kills a kitten. < 1258849926 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone good with java/OO < 1258849933 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a programming generic question < 1258849938 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writring procedural code in java is bad? < 1258849942 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should it be OO < 1258849944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing code in Java is bad. < 1258849950 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.... < 1258849952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO is braindead but if you must use Java, you should use it. < 1258849958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use Java. < 1258849965 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean using procedural code to oo code < 1258849976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing Java, write in OO. < 1258849984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really; don't write in Java unless you must. < 1258850052 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must < 1258850058 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its sort of an interview assignment < 1258850060 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive written it < 1258850066 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some say procedural code in java is wrong < 1258850069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a company? Or do you mean "homework"... < 1258850079 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a company < 1258850095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't work for a company if I had to write Java. < 1258850103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I value my sanity and such. < 1258850162 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would OO be right here < 1258850163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ time cat foo >/dev/null < 1258850163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0m0.34s real 0m0.00s user 0m0.33s system < 1258850164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./cat foo >/dev/null < 1258850164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0m0.94s real 0m0.18s user 0m0.71s system < 1258850164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes!!11 How will I compete in the fast-paced arena of catting 640 MiB files?) < 1258850168 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why do you think its better < 1258850177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: because java is oo all around < 1258850221 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im lost < 1258850229 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i should add objects in java? < 1258850234 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically add oo in java? < 1258850272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: Java has objects.. < 1258850275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*... < 1258850289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... If you're lost, maybe you shouldn't be applying for a programming job. < 1258850290 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/d376562ec < 1258850292 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best i show you code < 1258850293 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258850296 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in there < 1258850302 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding objects would make things cleaner? < 1258850324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That code is perfectly fine from a quick read of it. < 1258850340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: Although... < 1258850346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* Dequeue operation */ < 1258850346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : queue.remove(); < 1258850350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't add such an obvious comment. < 1258850356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looks reasonable. < 1258850373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... For Java, at least (which enforces verboseness). < 1258850381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, that line is indented a lot; I would create a function with the body of the while (true) { that starts on line 211. < 1258850384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And turn it into: < 1258850388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (true) { < 1258850389 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258850390 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1258850397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : whateveryoucallit(); < 1258850397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258850421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When in Java, do as the Javans do. (I think that might involve all kinds of curious religious beliefs, for example. Oh, and you should speak Indonesian as a second language, most do) < 1258850434 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k ehird < 1258850437 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coolt < 1258850437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it Javacs, fizzie? < 1258850444 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks fot the input < 1258850473 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but although < 1258850475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: Basically, how to write good code: Avoid indenting too much. It's a sign you have a function that's too complex; split it up. Make the flow of logic clear. And finally, if your language has conventions, follow them. < 1258850475 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird what is the need of objects in this example < 1258850481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is none in that example. < 1258850493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It might be. Though that sounds a bit... bovine. (Maybe it's the "yak" resemblance.) < 1258850507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: Only add a class if you have a specific self-contained thing that doesn't interact much with other stuff. < 1258850515 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean < 1258850516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't make it abstract; only add a class for an actual thing, not a FactoryFactoryFactory. < 1258850521 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding objects would make any difference? < 1258850528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make any difference how? < 1258850532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd overcomplicate the code for no real reason. < 1258850556 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258850593 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1258850857 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll add a sliding window too < 1258850862 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no heavy queueing < 1258850871 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thanks for the input guys < 1258850885 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let me guess you guys are tired with other languages and moved to esoteric ones? < 1258850920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1258850949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though most of us find that Java sucks quite horribly. < 1258851030 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i cant use a sliding window < 1258851032 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to queue it < 1258851182 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258851612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258851621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if rmdir has any use vs rm -f < 1258851640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: I'm tired with other languages so I go to the fringe. < 1258851648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric, though? < 1258851654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; that's just for fun. < 1258851657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though good ideas have come out of esolangs. < 1258851675 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258851680 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golang is fun < 1258851682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is one of my favourite languages... recently I had a kick of using minimalist C as an applications programming language, but I've moved onto Go. < 1258851684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, snap. < 1258851707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical of all languages that come out, but the people who created C, Unix and Plan 9 kinda negate that. < 1258851740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well-done C is actually quite nice. The main thing with C is, of course, that it's easy to write very, very bad C. < 1258851759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And freaking hard to write C well. < 1258851763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... What's the bit that sets directoriness in Unix permissions? < 1258851922 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is real nice < 1258851929 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my assignment in haskell would be a one liner < 1258851929 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258851933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ls just pretends there's one. < 1258851943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Haskell is nice. < 1258851961 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this look efficient http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=30275 < 1258851969 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many non-referenced strings will exist? < 1258851975 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime u do S+=receiver() < 1258851981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+= is efficient in Java. < 1258852008 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1258852013 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on-referenced strings will exist < 1258852021 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of non-referenced string objects < 1258852024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a big deal. < 1258852030 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garbage collection is indeed there but still < 1258852041 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be better to use a stringbuilder? < 1258852048 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then append < 1258852055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it goes slowly, optimise your algorithm; then optimise it some more; only then should you micro-optimise. < 1258852060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StringBuilder is probably more idiomatic here. < 1258852065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is likely to be marginally faster. < 1258852087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Premature optimisation. Go with the most clear thing, and optimise later if it's slow. < 1258852090 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats marginally faster? < 1258852093 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code < 1258852096 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using stringbuilder? < 1258852101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StringBuilder. < 1258852112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes touch(1)
< 1258852131 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does the code look efficient besides using a stringbuilder? < 1258852142 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering there is lots of non-referenced string objects < 1258852178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarek_: Is it going slowly? < 1258852191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ The -m flag sets the permissions to be used when creating < 1258852192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the directory. The default is 0777.]] —plan9 mkdir(1) < 1258852192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why, when chmod works just fine... < 1258852224 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of runs ok < 1258852227 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too fast < 1258852229 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too slow < 1258852254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewrite it with StringBuilder; if it's faster and not hideously ugly, use thaat. < 1258852255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1258852265 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a string pool? < 1258852307 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all non-referenced string in java are left in string pool for some time till garbage collector takes up the job right? < 1258852324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it slow? < 1258852332 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258852338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried StringBuilder? < 1258852339 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has tobe without a stringbuilder < 1258852342 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ot the string pool < 1258852383 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me try < 1258853323 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258853446 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258854021 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258854059 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258855218 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258855243 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258855511 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258855694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258858072 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858073 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858073 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858073 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858124 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@64.71.152.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858124 0 :lifthrasiir!i=2q8ry8Di@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858124 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858124 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858124 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858876 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858877 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858877 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858877 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858877 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258858995 0 :lifthrasiir!i=opVey0Ui@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258858995 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1258859006 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@64.71.152.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859006 0 :lifthrasiir!i=2q8ry8Di@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859006 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859006 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859006 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859133 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258859478 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859595 0 :lifthrasiir!i=eJ0UnvhG@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258859815 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258860358 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258860372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple program to check if your computer is Intel or AMD: < 1258860379 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 C0 0F A2 B8 24 24 66 50 66 51 66 52 66 53 89 E2 B4 09 CD 21 31 C0 CD 21 < 1258860422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of the program is self-explanatory. < 1258860672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1258860719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means" < 1258860723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the entry point? Does it expect an initialised stack? Does it expect any sort of segmentation scheme? < 1258860747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's DOS, of course it will work (I tested it) < 1258860753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which mode should it execute in? < 1258860760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real-mode < 1258860774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a file called CPUID.COM and you can see if it works OK < 1258860804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it's a COM file. That's sufficient information to at least execute it. < 1258861034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, it expects real mode, entry point at 0x1000:0x0000, stack initialised... Oh, and it presumes the existence of the DOS interrupt table) < 1258861062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Does it use any of the interrupts added by DOS? < 1258861079 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it uses INT 21 (which is DOS interrupt) < 1258861567 0 :sarek_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258861585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi zzo38! < 1258861588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't realise you were here < 1258861617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how recent intel/amds does it work on? < 1258861625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it distinguish a core i7 from an opteron? < 1258861633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what if it's Cyrix, VIA or Transmeta? < 1258861648 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just try it and see if it works. < 1258861660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, but I believe it will work on all Pentium and newer < 1258861680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fry, fry, fry your board... < 1258861696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1258861715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works in virtual mode too < 1258861865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what it thinks $vm is < 1258861871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lol transmeta < 1258862126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do so, you can try to convert it to a 32-bits protected mode program that works on Linux, but I don't know how < 1258862214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to do what? < 1258862222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, writing ls(1) is a pain. < 1258862228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many intertwixing little logics. < 1258862251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers that "satanovsky" is a real surname
< 1258862283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't write ls(1) if you don't like to write ls(1) < 1258862292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fuckin' dispatch-on-type-of-file function is 30 lines just to handle the case that it's a symlink that points to a directory and we haven't been given -P < 1258862298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But I do want to, it's just a pain. < 1258862343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OK, then learn to pain. Pain is not too bad, as long as it isn't someone else making pain to you < 1258862361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ehird: OK, then learn to pain. Pain is not too bad, as long as it isn't someone else making pain to you < 1258862369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo? < 1258862370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1258862373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E's dead! < 1258862405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Got assembly for that? < 1258862416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ls(1) is probably a pain. < 1258862424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not probably; I can assure you it is. < 1258862427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly for what, do you mean, please? < 1258862435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pain au chocolat < 1258862436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < 1258862438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :75 lines and that's just the flags and initial dispatch. < 1258862451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be writing some coreutils in Haskell for kicks ATM if I had my computer here. < 1258862454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my ls(1) has significantly fewer options than thee common fare. < 1258862457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-dhlrtFP < 1258862484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The AMD/Intel thing. < 1258862491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list directories, not their contents; show file sizes as kilo/mega/gigabytes; show more informaation in columns; sort in reverse; sort the most recently modified files first; show sigils for directories/ executables* symlinks@ sockets= FIFOs|; list symlinks, not their referents. < 1258862494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "it". < 1258862503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only" seven options. < 1258862506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*information < 1258862539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a minute while I disassemble it < 1258862556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme guess — by hand < 1258862562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258862568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's zzo38, dude :P < 1258862575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's not like a 16-bit assembler is hard to find. < 1258862579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm pretty sure writing this ls(1) would be a pain in Haskell. < 1258862589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on a modern Unix system. < 1258862597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe. < 1258862610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logic is twingly and would become a nested mass without some imperativeness, I think. < 1258862613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you have to go about getting the file directory listing, anyways? < 1258862617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR AX,AX CPUID MOV AX,2424 PUSH EAX PUSH ECX PUSH EDX PUSH EBX MOV DX,SP MOV AH,09 INT 21 XOR AX,AX INT 21 < 1258862621 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, there is the code < 1258862627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he'd have to write his own fork of it then, you know ;D < 1258862634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh, just readdir(). Well. file.Readdir(). < 1258862637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's in Go. < 1258862637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, right. < 1258862658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Okay. It'd be a bit of a pain, then. < 1258862665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How else would you do it? < 1258862685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd forgotten what the function was is all. < 1258862692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor functions. < 1258862706 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, how I has the disassembled code, so that you can understand what it is < 1258862711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorax the terrible < 1258862746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to make a function for if err != nil { errorCode = 1; fmt.Fprintln(os.Stderr, err); return; }
< 1258862752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ... EAX? EBX? Those registers exist only in protected mode. < 1258862758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, and long mode, and unreal mode. < 1258862759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, `if handleError(err) { return }`. < 1258862766 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258862779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they exist even outside of protected mode. You just need to add the prefix for 32-bit instructions in 16-bit mode < 1258862807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Sorry, I should restate that: those registers only exist on 32-bit processors. < 1258862813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 66 prefix makes it do that < 1258862821 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this program works only on 32-bit processors < 1258862830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it runs in 16-bits mode < 1258862845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm8 < 1258862857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why oh why does hackego sometimes disappear < 1258862875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For no reason < 1258862883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hackego hates all that is Ego. < 1258862891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's a dos program, don't expect sanity < 1258862895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unreal mode is fun btw. < 1258862912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unreal mode is pretty... Crazy. < 1258862947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used unreal mode < 1258862969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty simple. < 1258862988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You jump to protected mode. You set up the segment table. You jump to real mode without clearing the segment table. < 1258862991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1258862998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/XFLT < 1258863001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah! < 1258863007 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258863007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first directory listing ist print. < 1258863012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printt. :P < 1258863022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly enough it's pre-sorted. < 1258863024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if that's portable. < 1258863055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is .go < 1258863065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you honestly doing what I think you're doing? < 1258863073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing core utilities? < 1258863081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; in Go, for the Goblin project (not mine). < 1258863089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1258863090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The Go postfix. < 1258863096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not mere folly; no tools with a similarly minimalist, Plan 9-inspired philosophy exist. < 1258863110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe plan9port, and that doesn't gel too well with normal Unices. < 1258863140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":(" all you want; you can enjoy your shit-filled, bloated-to-the-max GNU rubbish and I'll continue banging away contributions to Goblin. < 1258863166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is right; it's the suffix for the Go programming language. < 1258863194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1258863215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hate GNU. I'm :(ing Go < 1258863238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What, do you think I use Go because it's "OMG GOOGLE"? < 1258863247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I use it because it's from the people who brought us C, Unix and Plan 9. < 1258863254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the toolchain architecture is Plan 9's, which is wonderful. < 1258863269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a cleaned up C with garbage collection, a truly wonderful sort-of-OO system and a good concurrency model. < 1258863294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not joking by the people thing — you may have heard of Ken Thompson... :P) < 1258863401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that readdir() returning in alphabetical order isn't portable. < 1258863411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So time to write my happy happy fun fun magical sorting routinee. < 1258863418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to sleep soon. < 1258863484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I find it interesting that you consider Go minimalist. < 1258863490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all. < 1258863554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it interesting that you apply your usual holier-than-thou attitude to something you clearly haven't researched beyond a cursory glance (probably ending in "It looks like Pascal and I vomited!" or something equally inane and incorrect) or, if you had, entered in with a strange bias. Go *is* minimalist. < 1258863579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that is all, but I don't use cheap tricks to make the other party think that they are unable to reply. < 1258863648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was merely stating that I find it interesting that you consider it to be minimalist, which I do. < 1258863672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, I was meant to call the "interpret line hyper-literally while ignoring blatantly obvious implied meaning" routine on that line. < 1258863681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, it is all clear now. < 1258863706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you just stfu, because all you ever say to me is condescending bullshit one-liners? Thanks. < 1258863836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cleaned up C with garbage collection". Bam, instant decent language. < 1258863837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1258863849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any idea of rule for disorientation on D&D game? < 1258863856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258863860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam, below average sized language. Wait, what? < 1258863862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rarely comes up. < 1258863871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check out www.d20srd.org . < 1258863874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heheheh. < 1258863915 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not the standard rule I am looking for (I don't think there is a standard rule). The rule is for if you changed form in the wrong way and have to be disoriented for 24 hours < 1258863923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no standard rule for that < 1258863982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask your DM, since it is clearly a house rule. < 1258864050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether to bother with symbolic permissions
< 1258864052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that he does not consider garbage collection to be panacea... yet
< 1258864062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be more convenient to have "755" in the dir listing imo. < 1258864074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hello, 80s to 90s person! < 1258864098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DM doesn't have a idea, I need to make up a idea to suggested to the DM, which is what I would require some idea that someone has of this idea of this rule. (And, yes, it does apply to my character) < 1258864104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(temporarily) < 1258864106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the fields of computer science and practical language design have not both almost entirely conclusively decided that garbage collection is a Good Thing, your opinion carries more than absolutely zero weight! Because this is the 80s to 90s! < 1258864107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Manual memory management is a dying art. < 1258864114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Art, I question the word art. < 1258864118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I substitute "waste of time". < 1258864129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Some arts are also a waste of time. < 1258864141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the result of manual memory management isn't artful. < 1258864143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has its uses (for starters, implementing GCs :P) < 1258864148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manual memory management is only *mostly* a waste of time. < 1258864150 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258864175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do manual memory management, depending on which program language I am using, in some program language, it is more useful, in others it isn't as much useful < 1258864193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem I have with modern garbage collection is it tends to be non-deterministic < 1258864199 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-56-31.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258864211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boehm GC is my favorite C library. < 1258864213 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's the problem < 1258864254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that it cannot reliably be used to perform other cleanups like can be done with manual memory management < 1258864282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES HAVE TO MANUALLY CLOSE FILE. < 1258864356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/JVPI It's a start... < 1258864367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: RAII is bad. < 1258864382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply leads to program bugs and spooky action at a distance due to its implicitness. < 1258864411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, for the situations in which it is useful, often a GC finaliser does the trick due to its non-urgency. < 1258864419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anything that needs to be deterministic? Should be stated. < 1258864437 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBRM is an excellent idiom (I refuse to call it RAII) < 1258864502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had almost forgotten there were idioms involved in memory management. < 1258864513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend so much time letting the computer do it for me. < 1258864523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the problem most people have with the C++ memory management model is that it's generally done incorrectly by inexperienced coders < 1258864526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since I am a programmer: my job is to let the computer do things for me.) < 1258864528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't manage memory directly < 1258864563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... The problem with the C++ memory management model is that it is C's memory management model with un-C-like features added on. Poorly. < 1258864574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I disagree < 1258864576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... are we seriously having a GC-vs-no-GC argument in here? < 1258864580 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To this I say, lawl. < 1258864581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -F works too, apart from symlinks. < 1258864594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: your signature is just to complain about the current argument, you know < 1258864597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The same is true of everything else in C++. < 1258864602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm aware. < 1258864605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And I'm OK with that. < 1258864618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However, I agree with Gregor on this one piont. < 1258864620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point < 1258864621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, yes we are. We're doing 20 year old debates. Hooray! < 1258864623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sing a smart pointer class, you already have a basic GC system < 1258864625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is just a deluded, insane C++ fanboy. < 1258864628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*using < 1258864635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conversation with him on any of C++'s beloved "idioms" is worthless. < 1258864636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: In this case, I'm a control fanboy < 1258864643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#bdsm is that way. < 1258864647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, please come again. < 1258864651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Then why do you use C++ instead of C? < 1258864659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because he's fucking insane. < 1258864665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: By the way, I do not insist that C++ is supermagical < 1258864682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because it has a real type system. < 1258864698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You do; you say you're oh, not really a C++ fanboy, then go ahead and defend every damn retarded aspect of it. < 1258864702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly what a fanboy is. < 1258864704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Lawl*wut*? < 1258864714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1258864714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't defend every aspect of it < 1258864723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Compared to C, it does < 1258864740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many major C projects end up hacking together some nasty type system, often with macros < 1258864759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because < 1258864763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So pointers aren't all aliased to (void *) on demand. < 1258864771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not make a real type system. < 1258864772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the problem most people have with the C type system model is that it's generally done incorrectly by inexperienced coders < 1258864782 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Very true also < 1258864785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, I just repurposed your quote, except now it's not retarded. < 1258864794 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258864798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your argument is invalid, please try again. < 1258864810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes a type system that is very slightly less hackish than C's. < 1258864813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's type system is realer than C++'s; it has a coherent philosophy. < 1258864817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s is just a halfway point of insanity. < 1258864824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, C++ < 1258864829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s type system adds new features. < 1258864831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Also, allow me to list some things I hate about C++: iostreams, most C compatibility features, the overload resolution mechanism, and a bunch of template nastiness < 1258864832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy features. < 1258864841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ones that make parsing the longest pass in C++ compilation. < 1258864847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULTI-COLUMN "LS -L": A FEATURE NOBODY HAS EVER WANTED < 1258864848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YET < 1258864852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ls -l -F | mc < 1258864852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :040755 bin/ 100644 echo.go 100644 ls.go 100644 mkfile 100644 seq.go < 1258864852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100644 cat.go 100644 false.go 100644 mkdir.go 100644 pwd.go 100644 true.go < 1258864852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD < 1258864862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, I should add that too: the grammar is horrible < 1258864869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly mc will just decide to put them on separate lines once I've fleshed out -l.) < 1258864870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ls -lol < 1258864878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There is no flag lol, good sir! < 1258864886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We in Plan 9-derived-thingies do not do such uncouth -mixing. < 1258864895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate C++'s grammar even more than the next guy. < 1258864895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are -s -e -r -e -n -e and -c -a -l -m. < 1258864904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The type system itself is *why* the grammar takes so long to parse. < 1258864914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You literally have to evaluate templates in order to parse. < 1258864915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: error: duplicate option -i < 1258864919 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION huggles JavaScript and then runs away.
< 1258864933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Smart choice. < 1258864949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js' scoping almost ruins the entire thing. < 1258864958 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's more fundamental than that. It's because it fundamentally uses C's grammar, which has the same problem. It's just less noticeable because C is simpler. < 1258864959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the verbose closure syntax and some other baroque syntax warts < 1258864975 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: even worse, C++ overload resolution gets a whole lot nastier when templates or partial template specialization are involved :( < 1258864980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason it's slow, it isn't Forth. Forth is much more simple to parse than most others < 1258864984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Yeah :( < 1258864986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ls -d < 1258864986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1258864987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup... thanks for that... < 1258864987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... YOU ARE FREAKING EVALUATING LAMBDA CALCULUS AT RUNTIME FOR YOUR TYPESYSTEM. < 1258864994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FAIL AT TYPES FOREVER IF YOU THINK THATS A GOOD IDEA. < 1258865000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258865008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ls -d $(bin/pwd) < 1258865009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goblin < 1258865009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also thanks for that. < 1258865012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Teehee. < 1258865015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: at compile time, I think you mean? < 1258865020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth isn't simple to parse < 1258865022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's TC to parse < 1258865026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... Yes. < 1258865027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, evaluating a TC language at runtime is bad. < 1258865028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words can take over parsing entirely < 1258865029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258865069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is also TC to parse, and you don't even get much flexibility from it. < 1258865091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet coppro read through the C++ FQA Lite, nodding at the FAQ quotes and disagreeing with the response. < 1258865095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, words can take over parsing entirely, which makes it powerful, however it is still simple to write a simple parser that works. There is no syntax. Just read each word, that's all you need to parse a Forth program. The other parts of the program can parse some parts themself, too, if that is what needed < 1258865097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fun way to spend an afternoon for a fanboy. < 1258865099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should go on to easier-to-parse languages... Like Haskell. < 1258865103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: False. < 1258865105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For instance, you can do < 1258865119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARSE-C-NOW int main() { return 0;} $$END-OF-C < 1258865129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only parse that by running PARSE-C-NOW's compile-time word. < 1258865137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just split on spaces, then you are lexing it. < 1258865141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, actually, there's an exception to that. < 1258865143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That would be a pretty awesome couple of words. < 1258865146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think +2 or something is actually + 2 < 1258865146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm ambivalent on that issue. Performing TC evaluation at compile-time has advantages, but as you pointed out, it makes the language far more complex, to the point where it probably isn't worth it, and I'm undecided on whether it is < 1258865148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One word. < 1258865149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes. I don't quite mean exactly as I meant < 1258865154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$END-OF-C is just handled by PARSE-C-NOW. < 1258865166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Alright. < 1258865177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARSE-C-NOW would enter a different parser, not part of the main Forth parser. < 1258865187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are we having a parsing discussion without mentioning Lisp and friends? < 1258865202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then you can mention Lisp if you prefer to do so < 1258865202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish JSMIPS was tolerably fast, but I'm unwilling to figure out exactly why it's so slow and fix it, mostly because I suspect that the reason why it's so slow is because it can't be done fast. < 1258865207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we're more advanced than simple categorising pattern-matching machines. < 1258865212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: There's also this nasty bit about having to have code in a header if you want to use templated things in multiple files... < 1258865225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh yeah, that's truly nasty. < 1258865226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster combined vaguely related things and thinks it's a new idea, but the rest of us generally don't. < 1258865245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you can't parse Forth codes without executing it, but if you do execute it, it is simple for the main parser to be written. That is what I mean. < 1258865248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that one has an interesting legacy... < 1258865293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also also this nasty bit about the headers randomly changing from , say, to . < 1258865300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... For no particularly good reason. < 1258865308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Namespaces < 1258865320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe it is because it is C++ < 1258865323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C does not have them. The versions of the headers are in namespace std; < 1258865330 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use C++ so I wouldn't be sure < 1258865342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's rather irritatingly moot because < 1258865342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer plain C < 1258865357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because C standard library functions are reserved in the global namespace < 1258865389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, right. < 1258865399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the depressingly poor implementation of namespaces. < 1258865416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespaces != packages, sadly < 1258865422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or modules, whichever you prefer) < 1258865435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're looking to add that in 10 years or so :/ < 1258865464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& 1 || & 10 || & 100 (in octal) < 1258865468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather annoying to check for executableness < 1258865484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and add a !directory in there too. < 1258865492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1258865501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, why did they keep things like "headers" around? < 1258865512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an archaicism at best. < 1258865534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At bear minimum, should've deprecated #include for a proper module system. < 1258865540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bear/bare/ < 1258865554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As I said, they're looking for modules for the next iteration in 10 or so years :/ < 1258865575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standardized languages have benefits, but they also are slooooow to change < 1258865583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think #include and #define are useful commands. But, there is still a few things missing < 1258865600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't think they should recommend removing #include < 1258865623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should nuke the entire C preprocessor in favor of a proper macro system. < 1258865648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, and nuke C++ from orbit. :P < 1258865657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Huh. < 1258865662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing /foo to stat() gets you ./foo. < 1258865666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you ever seen Boost.Preprocessor? (note: I don't condone it) < 1258865669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1258865673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it applies to C as well) < 1258865680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ls -F / < 1258865680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open : no such file or directory < 1258865682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /bin gets ./bin < 1258865688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm not saying it's useless. < 1258865688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how is my / being stripped? < 1258865691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS < 1258865696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying it's piss-poor. < 1258865703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. < 1258865713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I'm saying, look at Boost.Preprocessor if you want a lesson in esoteric programming < 1258865749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The C preprocessor is horrible (though really, adding a more complex macro system just gives C++ another level of execution besides templates and runtime...) < 1258865769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Nuke templates, too. < 1258865781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, nuke all of C++. It's an abortion. < 1258865798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not believe that word means what you think it means. < 1258865834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implausible! < 1258865946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, though, consider C++ aborted. < 1258865946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts away the wire coat hanger
< 1258865948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...You can't get the filename a symlink points to without open()ing it? < 1258865978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am tired? Yawn. Sleep soon. < 1258866204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nah3nMStXV4 < 1258866204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which bears play ice hockey < 1258866204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERESTING FACT: this video is exactly the same no matter what drugs you are on < 1258866427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION estimates that the final ls.go will be ~300 lines when complete
< 1258866443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a break; i could sleep, but i could also code a different tool! < 1258866476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code cc.go. < 1258866478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah cp is so boring, it's just cat in >out < 1258866490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's $O^c < 1258866495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plan 9 c compiler :P < 1258866499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ships with go) < 1258866503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the go compilers are written in plan 9 c) < 1258866519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go compilers are written in Plan 9 C? That's quite nice. < 1258866522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258866525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 offers a very nice C environment. < 1258866527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using functions from plan 9's stdlib to boot < 1258866533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much nicer than that of UNIX. < 1258866537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and the compiler compiles to plan 9 linker files < 1258866540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses the plan 9 linker < 1258866557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russ cox is one of the main people on the go team, and also the author of plan9port < 1258866563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very much a plan 9 environment < 1258866572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite nice. < 1258866636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258866650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why cp was created < 1258866654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you can just do cat foo >bar < 1258866696 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there cat when there's dd? < 1258866709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp -r < 1258866715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: dd predates UNIX. < 1258866717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, dd is an awful import from other systems < 1258866717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, really. < 1258866719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there chgroup when there's chown? < 1258866719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and totally un-unixy < 1258866726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know that) < 1258866735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat is simple and unixy, so it should be there (dd should not be there) < 1258866748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: cp -r should just be called cptree or something < 1258866757 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cattree < 1258866760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, plan 9 has no cp -r < 1258866765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly cp doesn't exist because of -r < 1258866776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about mv? Why is there a mv when there's cp and rm < 1258866778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1258866786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mv has different semantics < 1258866791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it merely changes the filename of an inode < 1258866798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't copy any data at all < 1258866818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258866832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, < 1258866832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/fedex < 1258866835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about obscure usecase < 1258866842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of plan 9 :-D < 1258866862 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258866879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION implements fmt
< 1258866923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, my thinking is going fuzzy < 1258866925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cat has different semantics from cp < 1258866925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better sleep sooon < 1258866931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat works on its input immediately; cp canl do buffered reads < 1258866935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can < 1258867194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, cat could do buffered too < 1258867201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that used to be default < 1258867204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -u sucka < 1258867282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not awake enough to do fmt < 1258867287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worrying < 1258867375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you go to sleep then? < 1258867494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew the answer to that myself < 1258867502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/seq -f %c 32 126 | tr -d '\n' < 1258867502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1258867514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the power of printf! < 1258867529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258867542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a beautiful little pipeline actually < 1258867593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing how tr foo '' would have the same semantics as tr -d foo, but tr instead decides to complain about it and make you use -d < 1258867747 0 :augur_!n=augur@208.59.119.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258867823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More fun with printf: http://sprunge.us/hXFQ < 1258867854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess %2v is kinda silly there (v = any value, but of course 2 is number-only). Feel free to mentally substitute %2d. < 1258868025 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258868048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how the main "meat" of that trick is totally outsourced to another function; it doesn't really have any corresponding code in the command. < 1258868245 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258868324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My seq is faster than plan9port's seq; I feel so special. < 1258868428 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258868430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258868642 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258868739 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1258868941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes cal.go
< 1258868957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The calendar produced is that for England and her colonies." —Plan 9 cal(1) < 1258868980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : September 1752 < 1258868980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : S M Tu W Th F S < 1258868980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 2 14 15 16 < 1258868981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 18 19 20 21 22 23 < 1258868981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 25 26 27 28 29 30 < 1258868994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gah, the week starts with monday! MONDAY!) < 1258869006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That time travel between Tuesday and Wednesday is a doozie. < 1258869065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The British Calendar Act of 1751 < 1258869065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declared the day after Wednesday < 1258869065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :September 2nd, 1752 < 1258869066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be Thursday, September 14" < 1258869109 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1258869132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW YOU'RE A PRETENTIOUS ASSWIPE WHEN < 1258869132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you know a song about the British Calendar Act oof 1751. < 1258869262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1258869656 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258869659 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258869726 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258869875 0 :augur__!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258870031 0 :augur___!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258870037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE AUGURS ARE ATTACKING < 1258870055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLEE TO THE ROCH < 1258870069 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1258870069 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258870072 0 :augur__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258870083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define roch < 1258870089 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Saint Roch (Rochus; Roc; Rocco; Roch; Rokku; Spanish and Portuguese: Roque; Rochus; Slovenian and Croatian: Rok; Dalmatian: Roko; c. ... \ [22]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch \ * The Return of the Condor Heroes (; Jyutping: San4 Diu1 Haap6 Leoi5) is a classic Wuxia novel by Louis Cha, who is better known as Jin Yong. ... < 1258870262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258870445 0 :augur___!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258870457 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258870797 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258870805 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258872209 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258872209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258872209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258872209 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258872268 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@64.71.152.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258872268 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258872268 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258872268 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258872364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258873334 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258875526 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258875841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258876297 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258876799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258876800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258877593 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258879165 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1258879210 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-130-101.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258879287 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-132.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258879335 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258885390 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258886925 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258887486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : opendns are making you pay to remove their shit nowadays < 1258887487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : use other, really open, pure-dns servers. < 1258887487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1258887685 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258887884 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258888086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is ehird writing basic unix utilities? < 1258888376 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1258889473 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258891694 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258891734 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258892609 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258893229 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.183.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258894821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, for that distro he plans maybe? < 1258896161 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258896646 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@90.52.221.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258899457 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258899802 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258901436 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-96.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258902662 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258903472 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258903529 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258904554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258905460 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258905579 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258906117 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258909899 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258910318 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258912243 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.88.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258912290 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258912363 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@90.52.221.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258913244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258913244 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1258915768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258916133 0 :fizzie!n=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258917149 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258918020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is internet nowdays? Slow ADSL? Or are you still on that mobile internet thingy? I forgot. < 1258918034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 Mb adsl < 1258918037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258918053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1258918092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, dayum ls(1) is a complex beast. < 1258918112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you only have six flags. < 1258918148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's less than busybox's 12...) < 1258918163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum? < 1258918177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeeh. I used to get a perfectly reasonable ~19000 kbps / 1020 kbps ADSL here, but now the ADSL modem is saying first 8704 kbps / 1020 kbps, then 8571 kbps / 1020 kbps. That's the sucky. < 1258918179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn but more... dayyyum < 1258918191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is dayyyum? < 1258918194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i hate you and i hope you die while choking on lava < 1258918207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed. < 1258918207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: damn but more... dayyyyyyyyyum < 1258918223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, assume I have no clue what you are talking about < 1258918238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and POSIX ls has way more flags than 6 < 1258918258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 unless I miscounted in man 1p ls < 1258918267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dayum is like damn but you pronounce it as dayyyyum because it's so daaaaayumu. < 1258918268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS < 1258918268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ls [-CFRacdilqrtu1][-H | -L ][-fgmnopsx][file...] < 1258918269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*daaaayum < 1258918274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aha < 1258918286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-dhlrtF] for mine < 1258918297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that's not POSIX then :P < 1258918302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d=false: list directories, not their contents/ -h=false: show file sizes as kilo/mega/gigabytes/ -l=false: show more information in columns/ -r=false: sort in reverse/ -t=false: sort the most recently modified files first/ -F=false: show sigils for directories/ executables* symlinks@ < 1258918306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: care amount: 0 < 1258918313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually -10 < 1258918316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch you use -d=false as syntax? < 1258918319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1258918321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go's flag parser does. < 1258918323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do -f < 1258918324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258918325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d < 1258918329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := just means default < 1258918335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I'm sure this will break some shell scripts < 1258918336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly -d=true is acceptable, who cares < 1258918340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: care amount: 0 < 1258918351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :care amount for posix is -10 because the closer something is to posix the more it's likely to suck < 1258918352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't use coloured output as an option? < 1258918359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always found that rather useful < 1258918368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm not raving so i'm not interested in bright colours < 1258918368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to read < 1258918371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls --glowsticks < 1258918378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unlikely to break many scripts anyway < 1258918394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well known fact that colours make output easier to read. That is why we have syntax highlighting too < 1258918395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the basic stuff and I might make an effort to put extra columns in -l to make the commonly used ones at the same position < 1258918404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well known fact". Ha! < 1258918411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't know the source < 1258918417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't feel like paying for 24M/1M when I could pay less for 8M/1M, if the difference is just 0.5Mbps. < 1258918422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coloured ls is not easier to read. < 1258918423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't you use syntax highlighting too? < 1258918430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find it easier to read < 1258918431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do. It's useful sparingly. < 1258918432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1258918437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some colour highlighting is helpful, some is not. < 1258918450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, you think you find it easier to read. Humans are notoriously bad at measuring their own efficiency over a variable. < 1258918456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's like making $PS1 have colours, easier to tell apart from output then < 1258918480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, easier to read as in "getting really annoyed and using ls -l to see anything unless it is coloured" < 1258918498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are however free to believe whatever you want < 1258918513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really interested in your "arguments" because they consist of finding examples that are "similar" but not analogous and restating your original assertion in different words. < 1258918534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry? I'm not having an argument with you < 1258918536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even like uriel would accept an ls with colour highlighting anyway. < 1258918541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a waste of time < 1258918552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would you like a dictionary? I believe it will demonstrate you are. < 1258918555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, who cares about him? < 1258918570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back playing vegastrike
< 1258918590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I care about him because I'm writing these tools for Goblin........... < 1258920760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boot logically a command, and is kept in /etc only to lessen the probability of its being invoked by accident or from curiosity. It reboots the system by jumping to the read--only memory, which contains a disk boot program." < 1258920760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— 1st Edition Unix boot(1), 11/3/71 < 1258920778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The mechanism invoked by jumping to the ROM loader is sensitiveto the contents of the console switches, which makes the whole procedure even more dangerous." < 1258920810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1258920813 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1258920875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIAGNOSTICS "?", in case of any difficulty. The most common problem is inability to find the given command. < 1258920877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— sh(1) < 1258920886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ED OR SH < 1258920887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide < 1258920918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"su allows one to become the super--user, who has all sorts of marvelous powers." —su(1) < 1258921206 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258921214 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't realise ehird was writing this linux distro in Go.
< 1258921224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sort of. < 1258921233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing core system utilities in Go for uriel's Goblin project, which I will use for my distro. < 1258921290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have cat, echo, false, mkdir, pwd, seq and true done and am working on ls and vis (make VISible; existed in later editions of Unix — basically, it's what cat -v/-e does, except in a separate program where it belongs) < 1258921316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The size of the binaries is rather worryingly, though; about 600 KiB for most of them. < 1258921319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worrying < 1258921342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 32-bit instead of 64-bit, a lighter libc statically linked and a non-ELF object format should cut that down to size. < 1258921346 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for busybox-style! < 1258921397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258921402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that would help < 1258921406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might < 1258921411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every lib func would just be included once < 1258921417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not too much a fan of busybox style < 1258921427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hack, really < 1258921431 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258921438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-crafted static binaries are small enough, I just need to beat these down to size < 1258921453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static linking of a non-glibc is often smaller than dynamically linking to glibc < 1258921465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go binaries don't use much libc, but that'd help a bit, I imagine < 1258921483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus all pointers being half the size, and an object format less crufty than Mach-O (which has loads of overhead)... < 1258921487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on osx atm) < 1258921488 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can dynamic linking be that big? < 1258921505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite seemingly paradoxical indeed. < 1258921513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully static linking is better in other aspects, too, so it's pretty win-win. < 1258921529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: all go programs statically link the stdlib parts they use, just not the libc) < 1258921638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/vis ;; i think i'll deviate from this a bit, end-of-line marking isn't normally very useful, and i don't think tabs should be turned into \t by default < 1258921673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe: -t treat tabs as invisible, -n treat newlines as invisible, -s strip, don't translate < 1258921687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using ^x format instead of \xxx, prolly < 1258922180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why lots of unix commands have an implicit cat
< 1258922187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in that vis manpage, vis a b c = cat a b c | vis < 1258922197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would seem like "vis [ file ]" would be better than "vis file ..." < 1258922603 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the ed man mage, it seems that there should be very clever ways to parse commands very simply < 1258922643 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some way of just doing stuff without needing much lookahead < 1258922667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything written in Perl has an implicit cat if you use the magic <>; that reads lines from any files given in @ARGV, or if that's empty, from stdin. < 1258922847 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i mean petrol plus ferry could easily end up being similar price < 1258922866 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops... < 1258923155 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.114.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258923367 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ed is cool < 1258923375 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I wonder why sed exists when we have ed < 1258923378 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When reading a file, ed discards ASCII NUL characters and all characters after the last newline." :-c < 1258923379 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, sure, stdin support < 1258923380 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phooey to you < 1258923403 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ooh that'd be fun < 1258923406 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metadata after the closing newline < 1258923462 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some seriously oomphy combinations available in that command list... < 1258923477 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: like? < 1258923479 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g and A for example < 1258923486 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1258923487 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258923497 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g and W < 1258923503 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure you are using http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/ed, instead of GNU ed. < 1258923506 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reading, not using < 1258923530 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as gnu ed just has a bunch of shit added because why not, plan 9 ed is the updated official, original ed... < 1258923547 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, reimplemented for plan9 after they replaced unix with it ofc but still < 1258923592 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/ed < 1258923623 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough :P < 1258923629 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if cat-v.org is a reference to catb.org
< 1258923663 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the way you can chain addresses is rather nifty < 1258923678 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to cat -v Considered Harmful http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/ < 1258923688 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rob pike's canonical paper on unix style < 1258923722 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bwk too < 1258923736 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the k in awk) < 1258923746 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, also the k in k&r :P < 1258923778 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with Brian Kerninghan, expert on the kerning of Han characters < 1258923830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258923929 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: anyway, how are g and W oomphy? < 1258923934 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably look up their definitions :P < 1258923955 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, g is the g in g/re/p < 1258923966 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. globally filter for /re/, print < 1258924006 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm is W a command? < 1258924021 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like w, but it appends < 1258924030 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: incidentally, http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/sam is a sort of "successor" to ed meant for user usage < 1258924055 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a graphical interface with an ed window above and the file below (showing selections and stuff) < 1258924057 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite cool < 1258924060 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the command language is different) < 1258924084 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ken thompson, brian kernighan, tom duff and bjarne stroustrup all use sam as their editor, and only the last one isn't an endorsement < 1258924127 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plan 9's other editor/generalised user interface, acme, is used by dennis ritchie, rob pike (it and sam's creator) and russ cox (plan 9 guy, creator of plan9port, member of the Go team)) < 1258924133 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, ken thompson is also a member of the Go team, whatever) < 1258924148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258924148 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1258924259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh c'mon, the only thing Stroustrup has "done wrong" is trying to create a language with every feature ever except GC and compile-time code execution. < 1258924336 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-24-54.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258924368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: And the only thing I ever did wrong was rape and murder kittens! < 1258924399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("C++: Literally as bad as kitten rape-murder." They should put that endorsement in the C++1x preface.) < 1258924424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: btw they're adding gc and closures to c++1x < 1258924426 0 :adam_d__!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-5-129.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258924431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and templates let you execute tc code at compile-time < 1258924438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR EXCEPTIONS WILL SOON BE ENTIRELY INVALID < 1258924557 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, every feature except proper macros < 1258924653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't give The Committee any ideas < 1258924769 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1258924892 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258924916 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258924968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1258925048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258925125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, It seems this issue http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14049 affects karmic. Do you happen to know what the ubuntu way is for patching one of the kernel modules locally is? < 1258925140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I have upgraded yet) < 1258925155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had to patch my gentoo kernel for it, but that I already compile manually, so trivial) < 1258925184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not offhand; I remember vaguely that I saw what it was once, but not what it is < 1258925201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I need to replace the joydev module < 1258925204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1258925477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1258925519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: so what did you mean by oomphy? useful? < 1258925532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g/foo/W would append all lines matching foo in the file to the file, I think < 1258925556 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they have a feeling of being able to do quite com[plex stuff despite being very simple in concept < 1258925570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called unix < 1258925571 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think chaining of addresses is good for that too < 1258925574 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1258925654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it's quite unintuitive though, in practice: http://sprunge.us/UUWg < 1258925660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it sees the changes after each W < 1258925673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you used a instead of W or whatever it'd probably help < 1258925727 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that you'd W to a different file than the one ou were editing < 1258925733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, yes. < 1258925766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: but that makes the current file what you W'd < 1258925768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't help < 1258925777 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258925779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you could do this with a pipe, I think < 1258925782 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks a bit then < 1258925788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple: < 1258925800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ed foo > bar \n g/re/p \n < 1258925803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i mean? < 1258925806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or >>bar < 1258925808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for exact results < 1258925811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ed keeps re-reading the file whenever W touches it? Odd < 1258925829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, yes, if you save a file you get the latest version < 1258925831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like every other editor < 1258925833 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would -o help? < 1258925846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If -o is present, ed writes all its interactive < 1258925846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output on the standard error file instead of the standard < 1258925847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output file, starts with /dev/stdout as its default output < 1258925847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : file, ignores any input file argument, suppresses printing < 1258925847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of character counts, and simulates an initial a command. < 1258925848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1258925854 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258925929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, "9 ed" for me is plan 9 ed < 1258925929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/ed < 1258925938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -o (for output piping) Write all output to the standard < 1258925939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : error file except writing by `w' commands. If no file < 1258925939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is given, make /fd/1 the remembered file; see the `e' < 1258925939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : command below. < 1258925944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has no implicit a, seems a bit cleaner < 1258925984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ed -o file /proc/$acmepid/something < 1258933326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm not edit < 1258933328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the command < 1258933328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1258933330 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oho, you want the plumber, dont you? < 1258933338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and no < 1258933342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to be able to execute any command < 1258933346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw does file(1) use the plumber?) < 1258933397 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, file just checks file type and doesnt interact with anything < 1258933411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no db file? < 1258933413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258933416 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can execute acme commands from shell windows the same as any, with a middle mouse click on the command < 1258933421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you ask the plumber what type a file is? < 1258933423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no shit < 1258933427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i want to do it with a file < 1258933443 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at man 4 acme? < 1258933446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :P < 1258933448 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that describes the control fs < 1258933461 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to man 1 acme which is the standard user interface etc < 1258933479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm /mnt/acme and also /dev? why? < 1258933484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should I use, me wondereth < 1258933501 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes you can control acme via its ctl file < 1258933518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: meh, I just wish acme had a more process-oriented design < 1258933524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a command is just a file in /acme/bin or whatever < 1258933533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be cleaner+cooler+more usefu < 1258933537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/l/ < 1258933543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the current special case < 1258933620 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly there isnt much standardization on exactly how plan 9 software using a 9p fs for stuff works, people have implemented a lot of approaches < 1258933654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new could just be `touch /dev/new/ctl` < 1258933657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*New could just be < 1258933663 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance rio creates a new window via the mount operation, which sort of makes sense, but at the same time, it has always seemed to me that it would make more sense as creating a file < 1258933686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorely disappointed that if you do < 1258933690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% foo=a; echo $foo < 1258933690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aa < 1258933691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258933693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% foo=a; echo $foo < 1258933693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258933697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% cat /env/foo < 1258933698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258933702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% echo -n hi >/env/foo < 1258933706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% echo $foo < 1258933707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258933711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% cat /env/foo < 1258933711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258933714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑↑↑ TOTALLY SHITTY < 1258933727 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the problem with that? < 1258933739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because normally, /env reflects the environment < 1258933745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can change it and it gets desynchronised, totally counterintuitively < 1258933747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1258933750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change the same variable again < 1258933752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it resynchronises???? < 1258933758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very flimsy and teh suck < 1258933780 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you omit a step from your example above? it doesnt seem to match what you just said < 1258933799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote it out by hand < 1258933806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using 9vx < 1258933810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make an http POST? < 1258933812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make a paste < 1258933869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no hput < 1258933881 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, im testing, in your example above you actually showed synchronization, but i see the desync you are talking about < 1258933908 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variable didnt actually follow the change to the file in /env < 1258933933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1258933933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258933937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every "hi" output < 1258933939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend it's "a" < 1258933949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yeah, uber shitty < 1258933954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE < 1258933956 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have plan9 always up, so i just tested and i see what you mean, the identity of the two things isnt maintained < 1258933962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before I was musing about an "environment server" < 1258933971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be basically a daemon that maintains an /env fs with the vars in it < 1258933972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought < 1258933979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, this would be good for environment configuration < 1258933986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like autoconf (spit) could be replaced with doing $cc < 1258933991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to update your settings you could just do < 1258933991 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly rc pushes shell variables out to /env but it doesnt read them from it < 1258933993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo foo >/env/cc < 1258934004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the env daemon would manage the environment variables for all processes < 1258934009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1258934011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say < 1258934023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind /etc/env < 1258934024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to /env < 1258934028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you write /etc/env/cc < 1258934030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll persist < 1258934033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was like cool awesome < 1258934035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried out 9vx < 1258934036 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that would be a nice patch to rc < 1258934038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw /env < 1258934041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :went "OMGOMGOMGOMOMG <3" < 1258934045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried the example < 1258934048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was filled with rage < 1258934055 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason it doesnt work like that sadly is that rc is actually a general purpose shell with nothing really plan 9 specific in it < 1258934059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1258934062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well < 1258934067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get /env/fn#foo made < 1258934070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fucking awesome < 1258934081 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be a relatively easy thing to adjust rcs behavior < 1258934083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: anyway, plan 9 retard here — how would I bind a dir into /env? < 1258934089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that $dir/foo is accessible as /env/foo < 1258934097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind(1) yeah? < 1258934098 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want it to replace env, or to be a union with it? < 1258934101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :union < 1258934109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with /env taking priority for e.g. creating files < 1258934125 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok in that case you want bind -ac /my/env /env < 1258934130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, preferably, if there's $dir/foo accessible accessible as /env/foo < 1258934136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then modifying /env/foo would create /env/foo < 1258934138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not modify $dir/fo < 1258934140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*foo < 1258934150 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes your env a union and it will give the original /env the place 'in front' < 1258934153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. /env is checked before $dir < 1258934165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modification causes copying to /env first < 1258934170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will bind -ac do that? < 1258934174 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258934201 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -a flag puts the new directory added to the union 'behind' the other one, whereas the -b flag puts it 'on top' when it comes to reading and writing files < 1258934220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true, it doesn't do that < 1258934225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I create $home/env/poop < 1258934227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then modify /env/poop < 1258934230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it modifies $home/env/poop < 1258934243 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok try bind -a without the -c flag < 1258934249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i unbind first? < 1258934258 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmount /home/env /env < 1258934287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dice < 1258934292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% bind -a $home/env /env < 1258934295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% echo hi >poop < 1258934298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% cat /env/poop < 1258934299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1258934303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% echo bar >/env/poop < 1258934305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term% cat poop < 1258934306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar < 1258934310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cwd is $home/env) < 1258934319 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait < 1258934328 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are already in $home/env then of course your stuff gets created there < 1258934337 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean you want the bind created the other way? < 1258934343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that carefully < 1258934347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is in the last two lines < 1258934350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything before that is great++ < 1258934356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the last cat poop should produce hi < 1258934361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if I did cat /env/poop < 1258934363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should produce bar < 1258934365 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are in $home/env, then you arent making use of the bind < 1258934368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258934371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ MY SNIPPET FFS < 1258934376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it CAREFULLY < 1258934419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: what i want is copy-on-write, basically < 1258934423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if /env/foo = $home/env/foo < 1258934426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write to /env/foo < 1258934429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should < 1258934433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp $home/env/foo /env < 1258934436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modify it < 1258934437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1258934467 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly, i see what you are saying but i think you are misunderstanding the semantics of bind a bit < 1258934478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what they are in this instance < 1258934485 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a sec to do a couple tests locally so i can make sure to give you accurate response < 1258934489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1258934491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 90% sure < 1258934498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it SHOULD be possible < 1258934502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: to explain WHY < 1258934510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/blah/env is on disk < 1258934512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just some files < 1258934512 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with what you described doing was that you didnt have a 'poop' in /env previously, right? < 1258934513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1258934518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/blah/env/cc is 8c < 1258934519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1258934523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is bound to /env < 1258934528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you then do < 1258934536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n gcc >/blah/env/cc < 1258934541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /env/cc is gcc, too < 1258934542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1258934547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, in a shell session < 1258934551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cc=somecciwanttouserightnow < 1258934554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll modify /env/cc < 1258934558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, /env/cc will be a new file < 1258934562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contents somecciwanttouserightnow < 1258934566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /blah/env/cc stays as gcc < 1258934572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying /blah/env/cc now does nothing to /env/cc < 1258934577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you've overridden it < 1258934580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1258934595 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id agree with you, i was still trying to analyze the example you gave above and explain its behavior < 1258934609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand it, it's very simple < 1258934615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for this case it's wrong :P < 1258934619 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought it was something unexpected < 1258934681 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i think the issue is that you are wanting to make bind 'synchronize' different files, but it doesnt do that, its basically just rewriting a path name < 1258934756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1258934760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not trying any synchronisation < 1258934761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258934764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pointless < 1258934776 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1258934784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you never understand :| < 1258934797 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be more patient with people who arent as smart as yourself, im sorry < 1258934805 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even understand what it is im not understanding, though < 1258934814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't ever claim you weren't as smart < 1258934822 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im making that claim < 1258934913 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway - there is the core issue of /env not synchronizing, which i understand and is lame - im not following exactly what you need/want bind to do that it isnt < 1258934962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1258934964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258934976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Java user signed off" < 1258934994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm itching to make my own plan 9-alike < 1258935001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because plan 9 doesn't go far enough :P < 1258935006 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly far enough < 1258935015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I'd totally redesign the c language < 1258935018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's filesystem based < 1258935025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files uber alles, memory must die! < 1258935046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have similar ideas, trying to recreate most of an OS environment via synthetic 9p fileservers < 1258935062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo() { return 42; } → /proc/##/procs/foo < 1258935064 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plan9 kernel doesnt use 9p to talk to itself internally < 1258935070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could execute that via the shell < 1258935120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: did you see that i'm writing some plan 9-inspired core utilities for linux? < 1258935122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in go < 1258935132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of uriel's project < 1258935147 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i noticed that and was gonna ask if you are hosting that code anywhere < 1258935160 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tracking your example above, are you sure the behavior you want isnt bind -b rather than bind -a? < 1258935163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, but i can send you a tarball of the finished commands and a mkfile if you want < 1258935166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: dunno < 1258935182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have cat, echo, false, mkdir, pwd, seq and true done and am working on ls and vis, fwiw < 1258935185 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think when i told you that you wanted bind -a i was misunderstand what you meant by 'writes go to /env' < 1258935203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can send along ls too, but vis is totally broken atm < 1258935217 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because once you bind -b something on top of /env you still read and write from /env as usual within that namespace < 1258935219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls works, i just need to implement another gob of functionality before it's complete < 1258935231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no version control atm, should prolly add some but meh < 1258935327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i didn't explain what vis is < 1258935332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from later unices < 1258935339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's cat -v/-e as a separate program < 1258935354 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah its mentioned in the cat -v paper isnt it? < 1258935356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258935362 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 'visible' < 1258935364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason it's file ... there < 1258935367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mine it's [ file ] < 1258935376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as cat shouldn't make things visible, surely vis shouldn't concatenate? < 1258935382 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258935402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(welcome to rebuttals to that, btw — a lot of unix progs take a variable number of files and it's mostly a bad idea) < 1258935429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mkdir does it because there's no "cat" there, it's creating; my ls does it because once it works properly, it'll prepend the path to each entry in the listing like plan 9 ls; you can't duplicate that without it < 1258935432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vis? < 1258935438 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its amazing how much you find even in the core basics of something like unix/C stdio how much weird shit and corner cases there are < 1258935452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1258935462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm curious of your opinion on the implicit catting, btw) < 1258935463 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behavior of stdio buffers and whether they need to be fflush() < 1258935516 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not much of a purist, i guess it seems to me that allowing vis to take multiple file inputs is basically just making it analogous to the fact that lots of command line tools do, as you mentioned < 1258935562 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also doesnt seem to make much of a difference because after all you can always cat foo bar biz | vis < 1258935577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but can you think of a good reason to take multiple files? < 1258935595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a priori < 1258935607 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only that random users may attempt to use it that way 'by instinct/analogy' with cat < 1258935613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a priori, I said < 1258935624 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophically, i dont believe in synthetic a priori propositions < 1258935628 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i ignored that < 1258935631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does your mom. < 1258935638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant "without reosrting to historical justification" < 1258935640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*resorting < 1258935700 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, slightly greater flexibility for use in some scripting contexts? nothing that strikes me as actually important or worth changing your mind over < 1258935785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1258935792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was expecting a justification based on unix style < 1258935793 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i think the 'antisymmetry with cat' argument from historical context is a pretty good reason to stick with your idea < 1258935895 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, from unix style: cat, grep, sed, and probably several others all accept multiple files as input < 1258935904 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the command line that is < 1258935915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, modern cat/grep/sed do < 1258935924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quoth < 1258935926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1258935928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat doesn't count < 1258935933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat is meant to concatenate files duh < 1258935934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/ < 1258935939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go find me a non-cat, non-cp example < 1258935970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, and non-mv < 1258935998 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally disagree with what i interpret to be your implicit premise < 1258936006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh shaddup < 1258936013 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, that unix 1st edition implements the unix design principles more thoroughly than the later unices < 1258936022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix style < 1258936024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not unix implementation < 1258936026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my point < 1258936042 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say unix style is defined by the evolved practices, and certainly with say unix v7 having the heaviest weighting < 1258936052 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at&t unix v7 is imo the most important OS release ever probably < 1258936060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way dude, v7 has pcc < 1258936071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has chroot < 1258936071 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it introduced the Bourne Shell and C stdio library < 1258936074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl < 1258936076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS IOCTL, mycroftiv < 1258936079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i o c t l < 1258936081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rest my fuckin' case < 1258936089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v7 was the death of unix. < 1258936100 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case id take Plan 9 as the definitive model of unix style < 1258936107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1258936109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using implementations < 1258936115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking for arguments from the principles of unix style < 1258936120 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since after all it was Pike who wrote the book, and was the main designer of plan 9 < 1258936123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy to their judgement on other aspects < 1258936137 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :principles are implicit in implementations < 1258936142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1258936147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations are always imperfect < 1258936158 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are principles < 1258936168 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irrelevant, but was GREAT as a snappy debating point < 1258936200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you just argue from analogy to principles or stfu :P < 1258936226 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, heres a semiprincipled argument < 1258936238 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many unix command line tools are basically 'stream' tools < 1258936250 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operate on a stream of input and produce a stream of output, and they dont care about the origin < 1258936266 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files given on the command line just determine 'what the stream is' < 1258936274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that argument no cmd should take file args < 1258936276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do cmd a < 1258936400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar Binary < 1258937128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I had < 1258937140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld :: Object -> Object -> Object (isomorphic to [Object] -> Object) < 1258937141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258937152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, I could have compiling and linking in one stage, and still link files of separate languages. < 1258937162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, cc foo.c bar.c -o blah.o < 1258937168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could then do ./blah.o if it has main() < 1258937172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or < 1258937175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable < 1258937179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go foo.go bar.go -o blahgo.o < 1258937182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then < 1258937191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld blah.o blahgo.o -o final.o < 1258937194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./final.o < 1258937196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet! < 1258937196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1258937219 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds cool, i have no clue what the technical details/issues of implementation are though < 1258937220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc would of course be able to link in other objects, too (using library functions from ld) < 1258937225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you could do < 1258937234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cc foo.c bar.c /lib/blah.o -o prog.o < 1258937242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All object files, libraries and binaries are of the same format. < 1258937247 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258937256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have one simple format and some functions to create that format, provided by ld. < 1258937276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld itself is just a thin wrapper for making a new object, adding n objects to it, and finalising it. < 1258937312 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds sensible enough i feel there must be a catch < 1258937315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An "unld" would also be fun: if ld writes out where the individual symbols are from, you could split it into N .o files < 1258937347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: normally libraries are archives full of multiple .o files; using a symbol from one .o includes that whole .o in the linked program < 1258937363 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, im aware of that < 1258937365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: with this system, either it'd have to include the whole library even if you just use a function, or the linker would have to analyse the machine code < 1258937372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what other symbols each symbol references < 1258937372 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that causes some annoyances in plan9 porting because it uses static linking < 1258937380 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so huge libraries cause annoying binaries < 1258937384 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258937396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have the object format store the list of symbols each symbol uses < 1258937399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, unless the library files include tags to denote data/function (bad bad bad) < 1258937405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only link in symbols needed < 1258937408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to use a heuristic to do dependency analysis < 1258937416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, that's a good solution < 1258937515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies. It came from me :P < 1258937555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thought is: from conway's law, we can derive that the fewer passes in a compiler the better < 1258937567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because an N-pass compiler is-as-if produced by an N-group team < 1258937577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and behemoth teams famously produce terrible software < 1258937608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is, can we make the c dialect compileable simply and elegantly with one pass? < 1258937642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since cc uses object-functions to "link" (basically it just compiles every file to one, adding as it goes along), you'd be able to compile and link an entire program in one single paass < 1258937646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pass < 1258937655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C file can be compiled in a single pass < 1258937667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's more convenient to have multiple passes, generally < 1258937715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how fast a one-pass, self-linking c-sideset (subset and superset) compiler could be < 1258937720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly faster than Go's fast compiler < 1258937736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet something like 100 kloc in, oh, 3 seconds? < 1258937743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a moderately fast machine that is < 1258937752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring io, prolly < 1258937774 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked, clang is single-pass < 1258937802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so clang can compile /dev/stdin without reading all of it first? < 1258937808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically < 1258937855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It actually waits for the whole file for code generation < 1258937869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but theoretically < 1258937875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no obstacle to it other than it operating on a string < 1258937880 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but parsing and semantic analysis are one pass, and could be done without the whole file < 1258937885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258937887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258937890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like 2-pass, then < 1258937906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing and code generation, loosely < 1258937918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only passes over the actual text once < 1258937927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really count < 1258937933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1258937938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't give you anything until it's done (note, however, that there is some work towards a REPL) < 1258937947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a true 1-pass compiler does all its work without looking over the code twice < 1258937954 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this relate to the goal of producing the best quality (by whatever metric) output from the compiler? < 1258937967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each block of code comes in, it's parsed, analysed, and it generates the code < 1258937969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and goes onto the next bit < 1258937977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The problem with that is that it loses optimization opportunity < 1258937984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it doesn't, but the compiler would be much simpler and elegant < 1258938000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimising the libc and the like is far more rewarding than trivial compiler optimisations < 1258938007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a really good quote from rob pike or someone about this < 1258938008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme find it < 1258938045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258938047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll paraphrase < 1258938088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(some unoptimised, redundant code; trivially optimised) This can be optimised by the compiler into: (the optimised version of this code) The latter snippet runs faster and is easier to read. Optimisation only gets you the former, and it makes the compiler more complex." < 1258938108 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258938109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only worthwhile optimisation is that with a big gain that can't be done easily by the programmer < 1258938127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := very few < 1258938179 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1258938218 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never actually seen any meaningful benchmarks of the efficiency of code output by various compilers < 1258938248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a truly 1-pass c compiler would be interesting, it'd probably be written in yacc+c or whatever < 1258938254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a yacc derivative that's "lighter" < 1258938263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. meshes better with C, for heavier processing programs < 1258938270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be almost literate in a way (@mycroftiv :P) < 1258938286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here is some syntax, and here is the corresponding code' < 1258938289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*code" < 1258938293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's another type of useful optimization < 1258938337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do continue. < 1258938338 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An optimization that depends on the platform < 1258938348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like? < 1258938359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like substituting some instructions for a faster one on the CPU? < 1258938364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258938368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be done when generating the instructions in the first place, really. < 1258938370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or loop unrolling may be good on some platforms and bad on others < 1258938381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant; it's mostly useless. < 1258938400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gains aren't very large, and when they are this is clearly ugly performance code; unrolling it explicitly would show the intent. < 1258938430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, c isn't compilable in one pass, if you mean cpp+c, which most people do < 1258938447 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why not? < 1258938456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the standard says that cpp MUST be done as a separate pasas. < 1258938458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pass < 1258938468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it says they must be done as if they were separate passes < 1258938499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the wonderful "as-if" rule < 1258938514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, tangled logic ahoy. < 1258938527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it'd end up reading the file and storing it, then going over the results. < 1258938529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really 1 pass. < 1258938560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a compiler can run the preprocessor at the same time that it does normal tokenization, like clang does < 1258938578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it sees an identifer during lexing, it checks it against macros and possibly does substitution < 1258938592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for directives < 1258938612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, eh. < 1258938613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1258938617 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you going to handle a forward goto in one pass? < 1258938639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we say one pass as generating asm, then simply use a label. < 1258938650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, let the linker do it. < 1258938655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it includes linking? < 1258938658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think. < 1258938667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do it truely in one pass < 1258938684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, maybe you could... hmm. < 1258938714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The simple answer is, of course, to simply leave a note and tie them up at the end; that's not "really" 2-pass, and it'd be such a minor step.) < 1258938714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can simply put it in a list of "unknown labels" and then when you see the label, adjust all the forward gotos < 1258938722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, yep. < 1258938737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, you still have to wait a little past the goto to generate code < 1258938758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure; you can't generate code for every character, either. < 1258938764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates work similarly (/me ducks) < 1258938771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as you have to parse ahead. < 1258938786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: point taken hehe < 1258938786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, any forward goto more than about 20 lines from its destination is eek! < 1258938793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Esoteric language coming on... :P < 1258938806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code for each character? < 1258938811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258938812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called Brainfuck with a different looping structure. < 1258938820 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what I was thinking too :/ < 1258938827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, any ascii char above n has n taken away from it < 1258938829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the same as < 1258938832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ the next n chars ] < 1258938843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you could do it in regular BF < 1258938844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every char is one instruction... < 1258938849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what would [ compile to? < 1258938861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A conditional jump to a thunk < 1258938866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258938871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating < 1258938876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do the same with forward gotos, actually < 1258938885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that incurs a runtime penalty < 1258938891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards and forward gotos should be the same in the result < 1258938904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's just unecessary optimization :P < 1258938910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1258938916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not deliberately incurring a penalty when it's quite simple not to < 1258938919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the sarcasm < 1258938926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was invisible < 1258938927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1258938935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it invisible? There was a :P < 1258939555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1258939708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1258939738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So! < 1258939800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That light yacc sounds fun. < 1258939914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Grr include files including include files is irritating. < 1258939978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In practice, #if is almost always followed by a variable like ‘‘pdp11.’’ What it means is that the programmer has buried some old code that will no longer compile." < 1258939978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—A New C Compiler, Ken Thompson < 1258940026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258940074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that paper warns against using the cpu's call instruction < 1258940088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then: "The first three compilers built were for the National 32000, Western 32100, and an internal computer called a Crisp. These compilers have drifted into disuse. Currently there are active compilers for the Motorola 68020 and MIPS 2000/3000 computers." < 1258940093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who knows what the situation is on x86 < 1258940101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1258940104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: does 8c do that? < 1258940107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same compiler suite < 1258940131 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm lemme scan back < 1258940144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: does 8c produce the x86 CALL instruction < 1258940148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just JMP < 1258940166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8c + an x86 dissembler will answer this < 1258940176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disassembler < 1258940177 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck if i know, i can make it spit out ASM though, got a test case? < 1258940222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo() < 1258940223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1258940223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 42; < 1258940223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258940224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258940224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() < 1258940225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1258940227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return foo(); < 1258940229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258940231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile with -N < 1258940233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might be inlined < 1258940237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick ehird < 1258940246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: were you trying to talk over those lines? < 1258940249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i didn't think so either. < 1258940281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebins are useful when there is channel activity or when there are so many lines that it'd obstruct the channel and be slow to send < 1258940299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine lines in an at the moment very slow channel is not either < 1258940414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I've been reading too much bad grammar when I start to get annoyed at people on IRC :( < 1258940433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what, for bad grammar? what error did i make? < 1258940441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in an at the moment very slow channel"? < 1258940449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stylistic choice, descriptivist! < 1258940451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258940452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prescriptivist < 1258940454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, that twigged me somewhat. I honestly don't care though, it's IRC. < 1258940474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that I'm reading Internet short stories at the moment, and it can be a bit of a slog < 1258940479 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL,foo+0(SB) < 1258940483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say it out aloud it's rhythmed like that, and "in an, at the moment, very slow channel" doesn't convey this well < 1258940488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: right < 1258940498 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resisted the urge to paste the whole ASM output ;)
< 1258940500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe CALL beats handling JMPs yourself on 386 < 1258940504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they just got lazy < 1258940510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why are you doing that? < 1258940527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's a good question :/ < 1258940528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should read my short story, 'cept i haven't wrote it yet < 1258940652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure call does a bunch of needless shit on x86 though < 1258940686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you really need is to push a return address and jmp (caveat: you can't assume registers have the same value afterwards) < 1258940724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(common solution: save the registers elsewhere and restore them; my suggested solution: use registers as a cache and temporary calculation area, not the sole place to find a value) < 1258940964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>;e < 1258940967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speak you fools < 1258940969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>:e < 1258941018 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my level of expertise on compiler theory is limited to reading source code for the plan 9 compiler and vaguely understanding it, and a few hours fucking with some x86 emulator and simple asm programs < 1258941037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no 8i which is phooey < 1258941038 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka not enough bits to make a byte of useful information < 1258941046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea but just make shit up < 1258941047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guess < 1258941049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theorise < 1258941130 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, theres a great ken thompson interview which might have some ideas for you < 1258941140 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if i can find it and then pretend its me having them < 1258941191 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ug, google just found me: < 1258941203 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.realitywanted.com/.../1738-exclusive-interview-with-ken-thompson-of-make-me-a-supermodel < 1258941213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 < 1258941214 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly someone is invading ken thompson's namespace < 1258941228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call ken kent hompson in future < 1258941232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kent@hompson < 1258941232 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt follow the link, just appalled by the description < 1258941240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste it < 1258941292 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ken thompson of make me a supermodel', that is all < 1258941298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258941303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kent Hompson < 1258941376 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, found the interview at least - heres something he references, a paper that talks about creating optimization by testing all the possible algorithms that are equivalent he can discover randomly < 1258941421 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says that it generates 'indescribable and inhuman' code < 1258941450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eviiiiil < 1258941453 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he says he used the trick for some crazy optimizations himself, like precomputing multiplication shortcuts < 1258941457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258941476 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short paste: < 1258941484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: theorise with me about a "lighter" yacc, good if the code related to some syntax is long and involved; i.e. a full program, not just a parser < 1258941484 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : On one case I used it for a compiler I’m writing for 68000 um, multiply takes thirty-two seconds no matter what. So, if you multiply something by three, thirty-two cycles. Those same thirty-two cycles, thirty-two adds, on this machine. < 1258941496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighter syntax (maybe mark yacc bits, not c bits), adds less cruft, etc < 1258941501 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what a combination if you change a multiply into shifts and adds. Multiply by a constant with shifts and adds of, you know, the original thing. You’re going to always beat the multiply because, the multiply is implemented so badly on this chip and so what I did is write super optimizer, which tries all combinations of shifts and adds to generate, to simulate a multiply by constants between one and ten thousand or < 1258941512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"takes thirty-two seconds no matter what" < 1258941516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl transcription error < 1258941528 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for cycles < 1258941531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and ten thousand or" < 1258941533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got cut off < 1258941548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:59] ehird: mycroftiv: theorise with me about a "lighter" yacc, good if the code related to some syntax is long and involved; i.e. a full program, not just a parser < 1258941548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:59] ehird: lighter syntax (maybe mark yacc bits, not c bits), adds less cruft, etc < 1258941582 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um well what is the minimum task? < 1258941588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258941590 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handling backaus naur forms or some shit? < 1258941597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc < 1258941646 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, isnt that basically what yacc does? < 1258941704 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought parsing languages was basically about mapping them to backaus naur forms that define their grammar? < 1258941716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about a yacc derivative < 1258941721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual syntax parsing stays the same < 1258941731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly the syntax differs < 1258941735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the yacc files < 1258941751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it nicer to do things like c compilers as yacc files < 1258941754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for long blocks of c < 1258941774 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so not a ground up rewrite of yacc < 1258941787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258941792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme come up with an example < 1258941817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the file ext of yacc files in plan 9 < 1258941854 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y.various stuff if thats what you mean < 1258941885 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y.tab.c is what you give to the compiler < 1258941928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, cool idea me has < 1258941943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know my 1-pass-including-linking idea? < 1258941950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you give it multiple c files, now < 1258941967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles all of these (and thus links them in, as soon as it compiles a given bit) in parallel < 1258941978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the functions that operate on an object in the ld library are thread-safe < 1258941987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can actually literally compile and link multiple c files in parallel < 1258942071 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1258942163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue here is when you have two symbols of the same name < 1258942167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially solved, however < 1258942172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when one conflicts, list all of them < 1258942178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say which one was first < 1258942195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue is if a symbol gets declared first < 1258942200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is used by something expecting the other one < 1258942203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this causes a type error < 1258942210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps on every type error, we should check for conflicts first < 1258942212 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i think there is an interesting general principle about how parallelization can be aided by serialization of an orthogonal element < 1258942219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be simple and incur not much of a penalty < 1258942225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and penalties on error conditions are irrelevant anyway < 1258942231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: agreed? < 1258942257 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im convinced but im not competent as an expert witness on compilers, as ive said < 1258942279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap < 1258942291 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can figure out how to get my #includes right and my mkfile works, im happy < 1258942306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Poor you, then; no #include in mine. < 1258942307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1258942327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include might work, but probably something like #include stdio will be recommended. < 1258942332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly no actual c preprocessor. < 1258942337 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no objection to that kind of simplification < 1258942347 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258942347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so #include "foo.h" might not work < 1258942351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might just scan for declarations < 1258942352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1258942361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost certainly not rampant inclusion of the contents < 1258942427 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If there's multiple symbols of the same name there, are three possibilities: < 1258942443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Note that one may be added, code meaning to use the other one will be processed, then the other will be added. < 1258942449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the middle step may break horribly. < 1258942462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1258942464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) All but one or all of the symbols are static. This is probably the most difficult case < 1258942476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just check for conflicts before adding any symbol, but that's a lot of overhead for such a common operation. < 1258942478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's an exceptional case. < 1258942486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: static as in static linking? < 1258942496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, as in C static < 1258942499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1258942500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limited to a file < 1258942507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) The non-static ones are inline symbols. You can freely use any one, because if they aren't identical it's UB < 1258942508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how are those linked? < 1258942511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :renaming them? < 1258942513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to like __file__foo < 1258942519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, that would work fine < 1258942522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean < 1258942525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it done in practice < 1258942539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not 100% sure. They get a special type of linkage < 1258942547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1258942584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A UUID prefix would work fine < 1258942590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1258942593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you'd be doing the whole file at once < 1258942601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't need to be seen from outside < 1258942624 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are making a compiler, are you going to put in the classic 'ultimate back door' described by thompson in his 'reflections on trusting trust' paper? you should < 1258942638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) There is a conflict between non-static, non-inline symbols. This is an error as well < 1258942655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no. < 1258942668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's possible static symbols are simply linked prior to the emission of the object file, but I don't think that's it < 1258942674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jdXj ;; what hello world will probably look like in Plan Y (which I am tentatively naming my OS) C < 1258942690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thingies: void is implicit, to make writing procedures nicer < 1258942695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :io lib is different, simpler < 1258942702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include syntax < 1258942713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(procedures as opposed to functions) < 1258942723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know you're going to hate me, but you could go the C++ route for library headers e.g. #include < 1258942725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no extension < 1258942732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the damn link :) < 1258942736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I did < 1258942744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: re linkage, doesn't apply to my case ofc when you're linking all things into one object < 1258942750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why include the needless <> < 1258942767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It does; the question is whether the symbol is visible in the .o or not < 1258942779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Because then you're compatible with standard C < 1258942780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ah, as opposed to just having an address? < 1258942786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah < 1258942787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i don't care < 1258942793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm already not compatible by making void implicit < 1258942799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably removing the parens in control structures < 1258942801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's int, and it is implicit < 1258942816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258942818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's void. < 1258942824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i said so < 1258942828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more logical that way < 1258942836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a procedure has no return value; so there is no return type to specify. < 1258942839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one will use your OS if you don't ship standard C :/ < 1258942848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to ship a modified version as well < 1258942850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't ship standard C; you mean like plan 9 doesn't? < 1258942860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly backwards compatible... "mostly" < 1258942865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in the c itself < 1258942868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely not in the libs < 1258942882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could argue that nobody uses plan 9 either, i could argue that i don't care; i'm a researcher < 1258942908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: most "real" c is in ansi c anyway < 1258942909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, using clang may provide another headache for you < 1258942912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it will explicitly specify void < 1258942915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay, i'm not going to < 1258942923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258942961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing parens from control structures is a rather obvious and totally backwards compatible extension, surprised it isn't more common < 1258942963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that < 1258942966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if validsize(x) < 1258942970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is better than < 1258942972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(validsize(x)) < 1258942981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(example shamelessly stolen from Notes on Programming in C) < 1258942986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it's int in standard C++ < 1258942988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C < 1258943001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also int in C++, how coincidental) < 1258943003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you've already said that < 1258943011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already replied < 1258943018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258943027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you said that most "real" C will explicitly specify void < 1258943058 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm not a fan of implicit int, implicit void, or implicit anything else < 1258943085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most real c will say < 1258943086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void foo() < 1258943088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean main is int < 1258943091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, most things will do that < 1258943108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main is void in mine because there's no reason for it not to be; exit(1) vs return 1; is a dilemma that shouldn't exist. < 1258943115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, void isn't really a return type < 1258943118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't do < 1258943121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return ; < 1258943125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and falling off the end is valid < 1258943125 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can! < 1258943128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is simply: < 1258943131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no return value < 1258943137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retval name(args) { < 1258943138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258943140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no return value < 1258943146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no return value type < 1258943157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we take the simplest, most terse route and omit the type for returnless functions < 1258943160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name(args) { < 1258943163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want my honest advice, don't make a C dialect. Either make something better than C, or standard C < 1258943168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also makes writing procedures, as opposed to functions to be used in expression context, nicer < 1258943178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is pretty nice for kernel programming. < 1258943179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has such great features as C declaration syntax and the C preprocessor < 1258943226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you could try the proposed new C++ declaration syntax instead of the C one (yes I'm 100% serious) < 1258943241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll disregard that advice as I've thought for surely at least a full weeks worth (i.e. 7*24 = 168 hours of thought) on OSs andp rogramming languages < 1258943245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and programming languages < 1258943253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the best language in which to write a Unix OS. < 1258943257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: elaborate < 1258943267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to find the paper < 1258943291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll do debugging symbols by simply having a key/value set attached to each symbol < 1258943333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way stripping debug info is easy to boot < 1258943344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as any other auxiliary data < 1258943372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the declaration syntax put all the declarators in a linear order so that you could clearly see that something was, say a pointer to pointer to function returning pointer to array < 1258943388 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-89-111.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258943395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Just like Go, SPECS, etc. < 1258943404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah < 1258943466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, they hadn't fully fleshed it out before it was dropped < 1258943472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1258943474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summarise < 1258943484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that i don't want to deviate too much from c in the actual meat of things < 1258943493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very un-c-like < 1258943495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but far more readable < 1258943497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jdXj just accentuates the differences, is all < 1258943544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what's a better way to express pointer-to-anything than void *, which is just a kludge
< 1258943549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could probably do it with i : int; j *-> int; k (int, char) -> int; // i is an int, j is a pointer to int, k is a function returning int < 1258943561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably needs some fiddling < 1258943596 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue of typeless objects is something i think deserves a huge amount more attention < 1258943603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: my eyes tried to parse that < 1258943606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they glazed over < 1258943642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Indeed. If I ever get around to making a "real" language, typing will be the #1 concern < 1258943700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience indicates that typing is overemphasised < 1258943727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing missing from most systems that spurs research into behemoth type systems is a generic-type capability < 1258943736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true enough < 1258943736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can define a hash table working on any type, strongly-typed, etc < 1258943736 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really started thinking about this more from learning 9p, because all of the real 'meat' of what goes on in a fs all happens in whatever is attached to the void* aux pointer < 1258943741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add that to something like C < 1258943744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty close to being fine < 1258943761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would wager that most type errors are caught by a very simple system < 1258943767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true enough < 1258943772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ones that aren't are very rare < 1258943776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least compared to other errors < 1258943785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the trick is to make a complex and strong type system that is easy to use and does The Right Thing < 1258943789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: elaborate < 1258943799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why? < 1258943804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity is never a virtue. < 1258943805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never. < 1258943827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not complexity for the sake of complexity; complexity as needed to reduce type errors while preserving ease of use < 1258943842 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the 9p protocol and its implementation in the standard libraries, all the 9p related structures are basically there for 'bookkeeping' on the protocol, they determine nothing about the content and behavior of the fs really, all of that is implemented... < 1258943858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But I postulate, and experience backs this up, that non-trivial type errors are rare. < 1258943863 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via whatever structs and functions you create that manipulate the obects that the file->aux pointer points at < 1258943874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly time should be diverted away from catching them to more useful areas. < 1258943911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: In a simple language like C, most typing errors are trivial < 1258943966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the triviality of typing errors decreases as the complexity of the type system increases, unless some of that complexity is directed at making errors more trivial < 1258943982 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258944051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258944067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I've used Haskell, dude. < 1258944085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty high at the top, and I can tell you that the type system hindered and bothered me a lot, and helped me surprisingly few times in comparison. < 1258944097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not just some noob; I'm pretty damn good at Haskell's type system, and know how it increases expressivity. < 1258944107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and likewise for myself and C++ < 1258944110 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it increase expressivity? < 1258944116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s type system has nothing on Haskell's. < 1258944131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: type classes let you do things you can't do without it, for one < 1258944135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a really good example, but I've forgotten it < 1258944143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's getting there. < 1258944147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the static dispatch they do lets you condition on them (remember, I forgot) < 1258944153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :increasing expressivity < 1258944172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In complexity; not in power. Haskell's type system's power is derived solely from its pure functionality. < 1258944180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ will never be purely functional; it cannot compete. < 1258944190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh yes < 1258944210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes what? < 1258944220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, as in "Oh, I misunderstood" < 1258944251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though C++'s type system is rather orthogonal to the fact that it generally doesn't have purely functional code < 1258944293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: isn't that normally rendered "Oh, yes" < 1258944299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1258944304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: hey, does plan 9 ed let you do "a" inline? < 1258944310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in a full a with text on one line < 1258944312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you have to do < 1258944312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258944313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1258944313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1258944333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, usually. But this is IRC and I've had too much bad grammar lately < 1258944342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've "had" it? < 1258944342 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill check, i always do it on separate lines but i havent tested < 1258944360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've received too much of it. < 1258944395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me that if http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle was about English, not C, it would be one of the best essays on style and typography ever written. < 1258944401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the joys of trying to determine whether a set of quotes is an actual quotation, emphasis, indicating a character thinking to themselves, or a badly-misplaced apostrophe know no bounds) < 1258944403 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to use separate lines < 1258944520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: darn < 1258944531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes ed unsuitable as an irc correction language :) < 1258944566 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, thats why sed was invented, wasnt it? time travelling irc-er wanted a good way to express revisions on the stream < 1258944595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually considered writing a script to apply sed corrections automatically < 1258944653 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type class dispatch < 1258944685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how would you delete the last character of a line with sed? < 1258944692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My non-trivial sed is rusty. < 1258944708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.$//? < 1258944711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not s. < 1258944723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258944727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses anything but s? < 1258944740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, you. < 1258944815 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d is the delete verb if thats all you needed to know < 1258944821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Nope. < 1258944827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to select just the last char of a line. < 1258944837 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.$ ? < 1258944872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a regexp? < 1258944876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah :P < 1258944886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will henceforth attempt to use sed commands other than s to apply corrections to my messages.§ < 1258944889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/.$/d < 1258944917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you append inline with sed? < 1258944924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can easily... with sam it's easy. < 1258944926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i/hello/ < 1258944958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that /.$/d doesn't work. < 1258944959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queer. < 1258944965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1258945199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1258945242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if a better alternative to the 8c convention is arch/c. e.g., 386/c, mips/c.
< 1258945251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Along with 386/l, mips/l, etc.) < 1258945265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems less distinctive and more verbose. < 1258945484 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still poking at sed
< 1258945603 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think you can operate on objects smaller than a line using the basic pattern space operations, have to use regexp < 1258945613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Name servers don’t scale well, for precisely the reason that the ARPANET name scheme doesn’t scale well: the name server must understand all possible name syntaxes." < 1258945613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— The Hideous Name, Rob Pike & P.J. Weinberger < 1258945614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot and a miss. < 1258945637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Name servers have problems on other levels, too. Who administers a name server’s database? If the database is not audited frequently much of the data will be obsolete, while if the controls are too onerous, people won’t bother keeping the database current. What does the database contain? Most name servers produce network addresses, but no single network reaches everywhere." < 1258945648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no biggie < 1258945671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can append stuff after some other stuff or at the end of a line, if I can delete stuff anywhere in the line and if I can replace stuff I'm fine < 1258945679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in one line, preferably with multiple operations per line possible < 1258946014 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The algorithm proceeds in two steps. First, we need to generate a number of equations to solve, then we need to solve them." ~Wikipedia < 1258946087 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the 2-step 'generate equations, then solve them' algorithm < 1258946136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A parable on the uselessness of find < 1258946139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -name *.c < 1258946140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :du -a | grep '\.c$' < 1258946161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly the latter gives you a bunk column. You could trivially make a "tree" command to do the same as "find .".) < 1258946173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: any progress on sedliness? < 1258946208 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? was there a topic left open in relation to it? < 1258946260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:08] ehird: if I can append stuff after some other stuff or at the end of a line, if I can delete stuff anywhere in the line and if I can replace stuff I'm fine < 1258946260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:09] ehird: all in one line, preferably with multiple operations per line possible < 1258946269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't figured out how to append inline, and I haven't totally sussed deletion < 1258946273 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1258946278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/.$/d doesn't seem to work < 1258946297 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt do what you want < 1258946308 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that deletes everything < 1258946355 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i was saying was that the operations in sed other than s and y work on the whole-line level, they dont dig inside the line < 1258946420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's shit. < 1258946425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sam, /.$/d works fine. < 1258946513 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the stuff in sed that isnt using the s regexp substitution verb isnt supposed to be the same thing as what sam is doing < 1258946530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phooey. < 1258946545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For five points, figure out how to use sam to script /dev/stdin→/dev/stdout. :P < 1258946661 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ! cat /fd/0 >>/fd/1 < 1258946675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: nono, I mean as a command < 1258946677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can do < 1258946690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 'butt' | samscript 'i/hello/' < 1258946696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo butt < 1258946944 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just 0,$ p < 1258946964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258946982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that do < 1258946987 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints everything < 1258947034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ printf 'i/hello\\n/\n0,$p\n' | sam -d 2>/dev/null < 1258947034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1258947034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1258947035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1258947117 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a very strange hello, world < 1258947123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{ < 1258947123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env rc < 1258947123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo $1' < 1258947123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,$p < 1258947124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' | sam -d >[2]/dev/null < 1258947124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}} < 1258947155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does sam let you put multiple commands on a line at all? < 1258947175 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, i never use sam < 1258947182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loser :P < 1258947244 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like not, the manpage says you can group multiple commands with { } but they go one per line < 1258947273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1258947279 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite using plan9 fanatically, there are still major pieces of it that i haven't explored < 1258947288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has an idea
< 1258947292 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even have plan9 handling my email < 1258947302 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lots of plan9 users swear by < 1258947311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use gmail :P < 1258947316 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah exactly < 1258947322 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course i could use plan9 as a client for gmail < 1258947331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail's ui is the only reason to use gmail < 1258947335 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ive never felt motivated < 1258947350 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont particularly like the gmail ui, but im very ui indifferent < 1258947352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm what's the rc thing to concatenate a list into one < 1258947360 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1258947363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: conversations. QED < 1258947369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else has 'em < 1258947378 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check, i should know that rc question but i always forget < 1258947414 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$"var i think < 1258947427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, i knew you had to assign a var < 1258947429 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should turn a list into a simple string < 1258947473 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what what do you mean? < 1258947482 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a list, dont you already have a var? < 1258947494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) < 1258947500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{ < 1258947501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env rc < 1258947501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifs=' < 1258947501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' echo $"*' < 1258947501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,$p' | sam -d >[2]/dev/null < 1258947502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}} < 1258947503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold, samscript < 1258947509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :samscript i/hello/ i/world/ < 1258947515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untested :P < 1258947521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shebang is for plan9port only < 1258947534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, ifs is \n normally < 1258947539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so $"* mustn't use ifs? < 1258947549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it doesn't < 1258947794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will get 5.5 hours sleep. sigh < 1258948190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd, OSs and libraries are so stupid. < 1258948221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth do people fuck so much with compiler optimisation when some simple sanity in OS and library design would speed things up immensely and simplify them in the process? < 1258948258 0 :mycrofti1!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258948278 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my irc box just died < 1258948300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.11.22 < 1258948302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1258948305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what irc client do you use?) < 1258948373 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use irssi in gnu/linux and irc7 in plan9 < 1258948399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: incidentally, how do you feel about my decision that what comes after "name:" isn't a sentence; "name:" starts the sentence? < 1258948424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: thus, even when capitalising the first letter of sentences, this should only be done when addressing people on the second line onwards. Like this. < 1258948425 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that decision have any notable consequences? < 1258948432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: IMO, it flows better. < 1258948452 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that decision mostly interesting on the meta-level < 1258948467 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely decide to make decisions of that type < 1258948492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i change my style all the time. < 1258948502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also considering not capitalising "i". < 1258948510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't seem to be any particular reason to. < 1258948522 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to pay more attention now that I know you put a lot of signal into your typography and it isn't merely noise. < 1258948522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, however, make an argument that it's less noisy than I, because it's a more complicated shape. < 1258948545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycrofti1: stop that; you're deliberately talking with capitalisation and punctuation :) < 1258948567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to put signal in it for a while and then it degenerates into noise. I have trouble sticking to a style. < 1258948568 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, busted. < 1258948580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycrofti1: you don't sound anything like mycroftiv at all like that :D < 1258948628 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, I find that paying attention to the surface niceties of my text causes disruption of my general train of thought. < 1258948643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycrofti1: STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT < 1258948662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycrofti1: i need to be up at around 9:30; tell me that I'm crazy and need to sleep urgently < 1258948668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'm < 1258948701 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clearly a sleep emergency and you should sleep with as much force and vigor as possible. < 1258948710 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not sweating, you're not sleeping hard enough. < 1258948722 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258948748 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mycroftiv < 1258948756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: what is this i don't even < 1258948923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: please, just tell me that i need to sleep < 1258948954 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only do you need to sleep, there is a hired bounty hunter who will hunt you down if you do not sleep asap. < 1258948992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: at least capitalise "ASAP" you lazy bugger < 1258949019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This from someone who isn't capitalizing "I" :P < 1258949033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I" is not an acronym. < 1258949044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to work out pointer semantics for referencing English words and the like... < 1258949092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I can resume my OS and compiler thoughts tomorrow, I guess, and the longer I wait the worse I'll be at thinking about them tomorrow. So I will head off to bed now; cheerio. < 1258949107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And with that line I have decided that capitalised "I" is more aesthetic.) < 1258949164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BID YOU FAREWELL, HEATHENS! < 1258949167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258949702 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toffoli_gate < 1258953406 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258956292 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258959926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am getting drunk < 1258960080 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258960545 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258960556 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258960580 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood what about quantum theory? < 1258960591 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258960592 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethanol < 1258960597 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is amazing < 1258960630 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to got it < 1258960663 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapl syrup is amazing < 1258961197 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258961382 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258961717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258961728 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258962061 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258962123 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258962314 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1258962390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate my shitty ADSL modem! < 1258962392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had locked up < 1258962394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle of the night < 1258962430 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258963094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, university → < 1258963095 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258963097 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258963199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258963200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258963712 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258964668 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1258966412 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258970428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Speaking of the "replace a 's/c/d/' regex with 'secede' for obfuscation points", turns out that while sed gleefully accepts "-e secede", Perl won't take "$x =~ secede;" -- it has to be a "non-alphanumeric, non-whitespace delimiter". < 1258970485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, because otherwise you couldn't give any functions names starting with s < 1258970513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you wanted to prefix them with & all the time < 1258970799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl parsing is such a hack, they could've easily done an "after =~ if it starts with s or m, at least try to make a regex out of it if the delimiters match sensibly and there's no cruft after it" kludge there too. < 1258970836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, there are not so many words starting with s that have the correct structure for a s///-style regex. < 1258970863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, the issue is that the =~ is optional < 1258970865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just type < 1258970867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secede; < 1258970885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be ambiguous whether it meant $_=~s/c/d/; or &secede(); < 1258970898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it might not work there; but it could be that =~ induces a "we really expect a regex here" mode-of-thinking. < 1258970900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or even "secede"; but Perl never uses that interpretation, as it would make no sense) < 1258971054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. are you sure it won't use that last interpretation? Perl -e 'secede;' doesn't complain, and with 'use strict' the error looks like it's thinking of it as a bareword; and perl -e '$a = secede;' sticks the string "secede" to $a. Assuming there's no sub secede { ... } seen, of course. < 1258971154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1258971158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turn "use strict" on all the time < 1258971171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which disallows barewords that aren't subs, except in a couple of specific contexts < 1258971182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it will use that last interpretation if it's the only one available, unless you tell it not to < 1258974484 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258974523 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258974534 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258975285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just received reports that "$a = 'foo'; $a =~ s ofobo; print $a;" prints out 'boo'. Now *that*'s tricky. And not mentioned in my perlop doc page. < 1258976231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does that work? < 1258976241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$a =~ s ofobo makes no sense to me < 1258976244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean < 1258976280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to mean s/f/b/, of course, but we have no idea why adding a space there makes the alphabetic delimiter work. < 1258976308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that seems wrong. After all space is not alphanumeric < 1258976317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so space should be the delimiter < 1258976327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace is not an allowed delimiter. < 1258976338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But neither should be alphanumerics, so... < 1258976368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's DWIMmery < 1258976377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, meaning? < 1258976386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit weird even for DWIMmery. < 1258976388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: instead of throwing syntax errors, Perl guesses < 1258976397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only get a syntax error if it had no idea what you meant < 1258976398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258976401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it stand for? < 1258976406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do What I Mean < 1258976408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258976436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some great DWIMmery in C-INTERCAL, where it guesses whether you meant C-INTERCAL or CLC-INTERCAL notation by which character set you're using < 1258976462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1258976476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh some issues on mac: stdout is fully buffered, stderr is line buffered < 1258976489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you override it with setvbuf? < 1258976505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it is an mpw tool that seems to mess up MPW badly < 1258976510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried for SIOW < 1258976521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the error codes 1, 2 and 3 have reserved meanings for MPW tool < 1258976522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1258976528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = syntax error (command line) < 1258976537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user defined ones should be 4 or higher < 1258976550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL error codes are just the INTERCAL error number < 1258976556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fun, because that's normally out of range on UNIX (it wraps it) < 1258976580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as far as I can see from the docs the range should be somewhat larger than that, 24 bits it seems < 1258976591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't have them on screen atm < 1258976602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from what I read yesterday it looked like that < 1258976619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another thing, it turns out you share stack with the shell. Oh and heap of course < 1258976628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any mem leaks = bad < 1258976638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with a "sub s { ... }" defined above, "$a =~ s ecede;" is interpreted as a regex; you need "$a =~ s(ecede);" to make it actually call s. So as long as that's the case, IM(ns)HO they could as well have made $a =~ secede; work too. < 1258976664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except it seems MPW tries some heuristics to find such leaks. The docs contradict itself on this point however < 1258976680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258976689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a deliberate leak to see what happened < 1258976696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: s is an operator < 1258976701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is a bit hard to tell what with the Mac OS memory model < 1258976708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does $a =~ s(ecede)(fcede) do? < 1258976713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a function s is defined? < 1258976743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you'd expect; substitutues ecede with fcede. < 1258976758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, LR(infinity) < 1258976764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what I'd expect; I don't know what you'd expect. < 1258976767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, does ( match )? < 1258976772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258976778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some special casing... < 1258976778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's another of Perl's specialities. < 1258976789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parentheses-style delimiters have to be used in pairs. < 1258976790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it work for <> {} and [] too? < 1258976794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258976796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least {} and []. < 1258976801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in perl6, it works for all the parentheses in Unicode < 1258976801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about various unicode parens? < 1258976815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as «» ? < 1258976823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the French use those or something < 1258976824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258976833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the four sorts of brackets (round, angle, square, curly) will all nest". < 1258976835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, «» has a predefined meaning in Perl6 < 1258976843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to perl5's qw() < 1258976863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION arges that s→abc←→def← should work
< 1258976874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argues* < 1258977055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there something with «X» and »X« and such to do [something] to just about any operators? < 1258977097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 has an *awesome* set of operators; http://glyphic.s3.amazonaws.com/ozone/mark/periodic/Periodic+Table+of+the+Operators+A4+300dpi.jpg (warning: a bit big image, 3477x2456 pixels). < 1258977133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, they're basically the different possible ways of currying map with the operators in question < 1258977135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1258977139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice image < 1258977144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, «X« is valid sometimes as well, I think < 1258977155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as X« for unaries (or was that X»? I know only one is meaningful) < 1258977175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op« and »op are listed in that table. < 1258977223 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258977227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the ":iffy", ":diffy" and ":fiddly" tags there, too. < 1258977234 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258977272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love the ... operator < 1258977292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how it's usual in code examples to write /* ... */ or whatever to show that there is code there, you just haven't written it yet? < 1258977300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl6 has an actual ... operator for that < 1258977307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which throws an exception if it's ever actually run < 1258977338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, question: what is the diff between those listed as metaops and those not? < 1258977350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't ask me, I'm not a Perl 6 scholar. < 1258977356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, a "p5=>" operator. < 1258977367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it means almost exactly the same thing as "," < 1258977379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: metaops are basically functions that take operators as arguments and return other operators < 1258977380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I'm wondering why ! is listed as metaop? < 1258977388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just negation? < 1258977392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can apply ! to many other operators. < 1258977406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean like == != but instead writing !==? < 1258977415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where the ? is NOT part of the op) < 1258977437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's more useful for other things though < 1258977443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the unary prefix ! is there also listed separately. < 1258977445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about good old negation, like you would write if (!foo) in C < 1258977448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same !? < 1258977457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah can't find it < 1258977457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the "Complementary" column (IV). < 1258977469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1258977481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does perl tell them apart? < 1258977492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can always use quoting < 1258977501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting operators?? < 1258977512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258977523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of quotes? < 1258977525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other is an infix operator and always applied to some other operator; that doesn't sound "hard", but it probably is messy. < 1258977532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. !{=} is not-assignment, as opposed to !{==} which is not-equality < 1258977535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I think you quote with {} < 1258977540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ???, !!! and ... are all these "stub" operators. < 1258977545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does "not assignment" even make sense? < 1258977561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that same as commenting out the relevant part? < 1258977576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (!(in = fopen("/etc/passwd","r")) { /* ... */ } < 1258977585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, is it same as: x = !y < 1258977587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing (although the above line was C, in Perl it would be a lot simpler) < 1258977592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's !(x = y) < 1258977593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258977598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything with the ":iffy" tag is listed as "can be used with !op". I don't see assignment there. < 1258977604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should be "do not assign to this variable" < 1258977605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258977609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be more esoteric < 1258977613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, there are very few :iffy-tagged ones. Though the table might not be the last word in this. < 1258977614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah < 1258977618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that would be INTERCAL < 1258977635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but isn't intercal esoteric? < 1258977638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl6 < 1258977640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> $a = 5 < 1258977641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1258977647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not fill me with confidence < 1258977650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulus (%) is listed as :iffy, so !% should be legal... it's not exactly clear what the "negated modulus" is. < 1258977659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "is divisible by" < 1258977669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seg fault? < 1258977670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258977678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a bug in a high level language like perl < 1258977694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a bug in Rakudo, almost certainly < 1258977701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just amused it happened on the first command I tried < 1258977716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Rakudo? Is it related to Parrot in any way? < 1258977751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Parrot is the VM that Rakudo targets < 1258977754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Must be off to a lecture/lecture-alike.) < 1258977757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION updates Parrot and Rakudo
< 1258977761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so perl6 is compiled? < 1258977767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytecode? < 1258977770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bytecode-compiled < 1258977771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Java < 1258977777 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258977785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, it's probably possible to compile Parrot to native code, but then you can do that with Java bytecode too < 1258977793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have to do it explicitly like in java, or does it happen automatically like in python? < 1258977802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably either < 1258977810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how perlish < 1258977838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can do it explicitly for python too. IIRC there is some script called during the python build process to do that for the standard library < 1258977918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads /usr/lib/python2.6/compileall.py
< 1258977981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm /usr/lib64/python2.6/py_compile.py < 1258977990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGIC = imp.get_magic() < 1258977993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice line < 1258978083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I have a vague memory of there being something like "compile byte code by interpreting a string as the source of a module" in the Python C API < 1258978087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258978232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, did you say you could compile perl6 to native code in theory? < 1258978243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1258978248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that imply being possible to parse it without running it? < 1258978254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl6 is meant to be better-behaved than perl5 < 1258978256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently quite some effort has gone into making it compilable < 1258978262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even to be able to have more than one parser < 1258978272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can nest compile-times inside runtimes, or something like that < 1258978278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather CLC-INTERCALlishly < 1258978300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you can't do that thing to make it undecidable? < 1258978315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the syntax is probably decidable, now < 1258978345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't matter if it wasn't, though; it would just send the compiler into an infinite loop in the undecidable case < 1258978347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's what the undecidable case did /anyway/ < 1258978570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258978707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but how does it execute code at compile time if it needs to compile it to bytecode first? Does it JIT-compile to bytecode, or does it switch to interpreting? < 1258978718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1258978731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl5 has enough magic as it is, I suspect in Perl6 the magic is recursive < 1258978751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can even change the grammar on the fly, again CLC-INTERCAL style; in fact, CLC-INTERCAL is looking more and more like a Perl6 tech demo) < 1258978758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with magic you mean obscure code? < 1258978785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258978792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or perl6 tech demo is looking more and more like CLC-INTERCAL < 1258978794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably, which works for no reason at all < 1258978803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CLC-INTERCAL is pretty magical too < 1258978821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty confident that the number of people who understand how it works is less than 10 < 1258978825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly just 1. or 0. < 1258978831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even negative, if that makes sense < 1258978852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: CLC-INTERCAL is pretty magical too <-- Of course, it's INTERCAL. < 1258978858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's given that it is magical < 1258982766 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258983556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1258984717 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258984950 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258985506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258985985 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258986313 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258987068 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-dlmfykwbajqeaktt JOIN :#esoteric < 1258987698 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258990012 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258991265 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258991362 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1258992751 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@82.66.176.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258993975 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258994357 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1258995143 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258995901 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258998132 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258998316 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258998492 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258998587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258998973 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258999879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there? < 1258999914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyone else that might happen to know if there is any ipv6 range that is reserved for examples (same way as example.org is or such) < 1258999951 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@86.169.6.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258999975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, found one reserved for documentation < 1259000040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, 2001:DB8::/32. < 1259000107 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259000110 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259000224 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259002581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiet today, ne. < 1259002608 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ne < 1259002689 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1259002750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1259002992 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-221.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259003425 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259003708 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1259003828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1259003835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1259003851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is irritated as SQL DBs
< 1259003878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be a portable way to get the value of an auto incremented column, when you need to use that value later in the same transaction < 1259003955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL is sort-of like Scheme or JS in that you can't expect it to be portable < 1259003962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the syntax for it in the dbms used by this module is just hideous: (select current_value of ObjectID_SEQ from MIMER.ONEROW) < 1259003967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's even worse than those two languages, as it doesn't even have a portablish core < 1259003973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the sequence is ObjectID_SEQ < 1259003994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SQL does have a core... At least in theory < 1259004005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this SQL 2003 standard thingy < 1259004005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a standard, IIRC < 1259004008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah < 1259004012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most SQLs don't comply with it by default < 1259004012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my point < 1259004019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1259004024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they don't even agree on what quoting operators to use < 1259004027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" vs. '' vs. `` < 1259004044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this one uses "" for quoting strange table/column names and '' for strings < 1259004048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was standard? < 1259004060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql uses `` for table/column names, at least < 1259004060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I'm pretty sure postgresql does it like that too < 1259004067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which definitely isn't what the standard says < 1259004070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, mysql is crap however < 1259004093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postgresql or sqlite are the ones I would use if I had the choice < 1259004111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note sqlite is good for small embedded, but standard support is quite bad) < 1259004115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note:* < 1259004196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also how would one declare a temp variable in sql? Basically I need to store the last inserted row id somewhere, and then insert two other things in the same table that refers to the first row < 1259004210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I can't just use that "(select current_value of ObjectID_SEQ from MIMER.ONEROW)" both times < 1259004229 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1259004233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this would be for the initial schema creation and data importing file) < 1259004250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1259004304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think that's standardised either < 1259004308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1259004309 0 :augur!n=augur@129.2.175.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259004499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm some testing indicates it needs to be inside a begin ... end; block, however the command line sql client thingy seems to have problems handling that (it gives a syntax error if any line inside that contains a semicolon, only way to make it work is to put the entire block on one line, which makes the sql file in question rather unreadable) < 1259004514 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1259004691 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.114.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259004732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vel helo dar. < 1259004739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1259004748 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1259004884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We should do shifts like that. < 1259005033 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1259005064 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259005152 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-196.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259005178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:10:48 wouldn't that imply being possible to parse it without running it? < 1259005178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is possible < 1259005179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just TC < 1259005197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: hey are you there < 1259005403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I didn't know they dropped that thing from perl5 *shrug* < 1259005405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl again < 1259005412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they did not. < 1259005426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing Perl has always been possible; just not without potentially executing Perl. < 1259005523 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: size[4] Tauth tag[2] afid[4] uname[s] aname[s] < 1259005531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you confuse me < 1259005535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you confuse me with your words < 1259005543 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up? < 1259005571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much tbh < 1259005653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-nuts (205) < 1259005657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably read-all that < 1259005666 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just reading some lkml controvery about something gcc was doing, putting 16-byte alignment where it wasn't wanted < 1259005778 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1259005792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm musing on c derivativery, OSs, plan 9 and yacc < 1259005797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compiler architectures < 1259005879 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something worth thinking about in that regard is the relation of on-disk filesystems to synthetic filesystems < 1259005908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kidding me, i've probably thought about that at least 70 times < 1259005909 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres really no connection between 9p synthetic filesystems and on disk stuff like fossil, it would be nice to change that < 1259005912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38, quiet today < 1259005923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: just implement fossil as a 9p server? < 1259005928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the boring, simple, and probably correct solution < 1259005929 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fossil does serve 9p < 1259005934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then. < 1259005953 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not quite the same as what i was referring to, i was thinking more about the way the data is structured < 1259005960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1259005970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you said the p9 kernel doesn't use 9p to talk to itself. < 1259005974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? just pass structs? < 1259005989 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if the in memory content of a 9p fs could be snapshotted to disk in a way that naturally fits the disk filesystem < 1259006013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a bit vague to meaningfully discuss; define naturally fits and justify how fossil doesn't achieve that < 1259006046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fossil ties into venti and uses a tree of pointer blocks pretty much < 1259006061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo dumb deduplication probably works well enough. < 1259006077 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas 9p uses this big set of structures like fcall and the internal stuff the libraries use to provide the public interfaces < 1259006098 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always have this idea you should be able to basically dump bytes straight from memory onto the disk, and have it be structured so that it fits the disk storage format < 1259006111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a real assembler called 888ASM, which I will use for writing operating systems < 1259006122 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever tried to write operating systems < 1259006134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Yes. < 1259006163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, for making program in real-mode. < 1259006181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried to write a real-mode OS, if that's what you mean. < 1259006193 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I mean. < 1259006204 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1259006250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: do you know why plan9port doesn't include a drawterm rio? < 1259006256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to use its rio in an os x window < 1259006316 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean a 'drawterm rio' ? when you run drawterm rio is being executed by the cpu server you connect to, drawterm is just providing a /dev/draw for it < 1259006381 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its analogous to the plan9 cpu command, which basically just runs processes on the cpu server with their namespace structured so that the devices are provided by the terminal < 1259006399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant drawterm as in the way plan9port runs the graphical apps like acme < 1259006407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rio uses the same widgets, so surely it uses the same lib? < 1259006418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1259006419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why can't we have actual rio, instead of an x11 wm that imitates rio? < 1259006476 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well rio is a fileserver < 1259006518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I am talking about the WM < 1259006525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at plan9port's rio(1); it's an x11 wm < 1259006529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe rio technically isn't that < 1259006530 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know < 1259006532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's implemented elsewhere < 1259006536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares < 1259006555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a little plan 9 wm that i can use as if i had rio running in plan 9, in a window < 1259006567 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would be cool < 1259006589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any technical obstacle other than porting the code from plan 9 c to posix c? < 1259006593 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just explaining that in plan9 rio is a fileserver that multiplexes access to the plan9 kernel files like #c (/dev/cons) and #i (/dev/draw) < 1259006597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the same graphical lib all the progs do, right? < 1259006604 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesnt translate in a direct way to *nix < 1259006640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9port can't do fileservers? < 1259006671 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it can < 1259006687 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the linux or other standard *nix kernel doesnt provide underlying devices that work the same way < 1259006691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so only the kernel bits would need to be changed. /dev/draw is already handled for progs like sam/acme/etc < 1259006700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /dev/cons is "sort of" easy to do < 1259006710 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure it would be a not-that-hard project to implement < 1259006734 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i agree that you could use drawterm code for a lot of it < 1259006740 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because drawterm provides those devices i was talking about < 1259006753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find a cruftless source of Rob Pike's "Notes on Programming in C" to give it some nice typographical lovin'
< 1259006763 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you would run rio in plan9 port and have it available for drawterm to dial into < 1259006795 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could really work i think < 1259006822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that rio is very good, tbh < 1259006825 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need to wire them together to start at the same time, rio doesnt know how to sit around and wait with no display for a client to show up unless you patch it < 1259006832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to write "other wms" for plan9? it is right? < 1259006836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hijack /dev/draw and remap it < 1259006840 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah plan9 user interface is kinda cool but not perfection or the OS strong suit < 1259006844 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course < 1259006856 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you know you can run any app right on the framebuffer, no need to put rio in there < 1259006889 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a matter of fact someone is working on a plan9 wm alternative who actually has the skill to deliver something technically solid, i think its a grad school project for them or something < 1259006904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: do you know the source of the bell labs-area quote that replacing a snippet with a better equivalent one gets you speed and clarity, and machine optimisation only gets the first? < 1259006908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was on cat-v or sth < 1259006930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think making acme be able to embed /dev/draw windows would be kickass < 1259006939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all other plan 9 interfaces would instantly become obsolete < 1259006942 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its familiar to me but all the rob pike ive read is all smushed together in my brain, i cant recall what line comes from what < 1259006953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from letting you hide acme windows and recall them later like rio < 1259006960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add that and acme is one of the best WMs in existence < 1259006965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think it was rob pike, yeah < 1259006974 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the 'rio inside an acme panel' thing has been talked about a fair amount, again, not too hard to do < 1259006988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono not rio < 1259006990 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgb understands the issues well since abaco is his project and it integrates acme with some graphical display < 1259006991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in a panel is a window < 1259007002 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant as an example < 1259007006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1259007027 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since thats something some people think 'should work' already, as a matter of design principle and general coolness < 1259007034 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run anything in an acme panel < 1259007052 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe inferno acme-sac already does that? < 1259007057 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1259007070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rio is a pretty useless wm < 1259007076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme is very good at efficiently organising things < 1259007096 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rio isnt great but it has some things i really like, i like how it and rc work together < 1259007121 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the awesomely purist backscroll of text that you can edit in, how the execution point works, 'send' option < 1259007160 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the basic mechanic of 'new' sweeping out a window, and apps 'taking over' the window they were started in < 1259007162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find revising the most recent flawed command, my most common editing operation by far, is needlessly tedious with the system < 1259007168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know that's heretical < 1259007186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the not scrolling by default just makes me disable it until i want to read a manpage < 1259007195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's completely useless to have to scroll every time all the time < 1259007201 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can change that in your profile < 1259007202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: now, acme's terminal < 1259007204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Win) < 1259007206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good < 1259007208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purist yet usable < 1259007217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i don't care, it's a shitty default < 1259007230 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not useless, it can be used to control execution and have a buffer of upcoming commands that you edit in response to what is going on - and yeah i agree it sucks as a default, i usually change it in my profile < 1259007280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/pikestyle.html is quite a clean source for NOPIC < 1259007302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where it was originally published, so that I can examine the formatting of the original. < 1259007318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.csl.cornell.edu/courses/ece314/tutorials/pike_C.html is devoid of stylistic markup < 1259007352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does bwk/pike's book The Practice of Programming include it? < 1259007364 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1259007368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I've long recommended Pike's "Notes on Programming in C" on my web page. This book includes most of the content from that essay and much more, but is still thin and concise.]] < 1259007369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1259007430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle seems to retain the formatting of the first one I linked, so either uriel got it from there, it's canonical, or some common ancestor used it < 1259007437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, common ancestor source or just source < 1259007487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the last i can find < 1259007500 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think im going to start lobbying for tex as the best long-term document storage format < 1259007511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, no. < 1259007532 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fortunately for you, my lobbying wont affect anyone at all since nobody cares < 1259007560 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes sense, the output is quite well defined and the program is 'finished', nothing will be changing in the future in the core program < 1259007564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to champion a hopeless cause, roff is better than TeX. Of course, both are monumental tortures to write in (roff slightly moreso). < 1259007578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But TeX has many flaws, especially as it does not store *documents*. < 1259007588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stores typesettings. < 1259007591 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, semantics! < 1259007598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantics are all there is. < 1259007602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is IMPORTANT. < 1259007616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cruft around the content is not the content (although typography is part of it). < 1259007634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People sometimes write their document within the confines of the typesetting language, but this is certainly not a good long-term practice for document storage. < 1259007641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least roff encourages that. < 1259007650 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259007659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And enables a dabbling of typography while leaving the rest to itself.) < 1259007711 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was intending to refer to the case where people are trying to preserve or recover specific formatting < 1259007723 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the context was you trying to find what the 'original' of pikestyle looked like < 1259007735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, and roff would have worked here for the typography I want. < 1259007741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX would have been more of a pain to extract it from. < 1259007789 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i just was thinking of tex as being valuable because its output is so precisely specified < 1259007816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for complete devoidness of support for Unicode. < 1259007833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it useless for a great many things where formatting is very important indeed. < 1259007864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, by roff I meant including n and troff) < 1259007893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if http://repo.cat-v.org/troff-slider/ is any good. < 1259007897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously tex isnt a solution for everyone or everything, but im still pretty impressed with it < 1259007940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using TeX directly is a good thing if, uh… you are Knuth < 1259007995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, a thought i had about my 1-pass compiler idea: what about portability? < 1259008010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should every compiler really rewrite all the c processing code? that's insane < 1259008023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way I'll do it is to have the main cc < 1259008033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you write some functions that it calls < 1259008036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each type of node < 1259008042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate the code, given loads of context and stuff < 1259008050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you just link 'em together to produce that compilerer < 1259008053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compiler < 1259008156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the architecture-specific files will be confusing < 1259008165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a series of unrelated snippets < 1259008207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Unfortunately, Ossanna's troff was written in PDP-11 assembly language and produced output specifically for the CAT phototypesetter. He rewrote it in C, although it was now 7000 lines of uncommented code and still dependent on the CAT. As the CAT became less common, and was no longer supported by the manufacturer, the need to make it support other devices became a priority. However, before this could be done, Ossanna died.]] < 1259008280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im forgetting what your primary motivation for a 1 pass compiler was - simplicity of creating the compiler itself, parallelization of operation, just because its an interesting possibility, all of the above? < 1259008324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplicity of the compiler code, speed of the compiler, and from what i derived from conway's law (gimme a sec to find it) < 1259008346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:52:35 another thought is: from conway's law, we can derive that the fewer passes in a compiler the better < 1259008346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:52:47 because an N-pass compiler is-as-if produced by an N-group team < 1259008347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:52:57 and behemoth teams famously produce terrible software < 1259008347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:53:28 so the question is, can we make the c dialect compileable simply and elegantly with one pass? < 1259008446 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i remember the conway's law thing, i thought that was clever but not rigorous < 1259008528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's just an idea < 1259008536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does p9 have an alternate way to middle click < 1259008543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine fails in 9vx and plan9port < 1259008555 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try clicking both left and right at the same time < 1259008566 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think theres also a key to hold down while you click also < 1259008573 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really oughta make a note of this since it comes up a lot < 1259008628 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are talking about doing stuff like ditching preprocessor, any other notable deviations from C standards you think are worth doing to maximize the efficiency/elegance goals? < 1259008641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual click magixxx is what i tried < 1259008644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it phails o no < 1259008655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: not too much. probably very similar to plan 9 c < 1259008673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void will probably be implicit < 1259008684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() {} returning void, as you've seen < 1259008748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly different io lib < 1259008756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know < 1259008774 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you familiar with plan 9's bio library? < 1259008872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, are you suggesting that cpp should be dropped? < 1259008891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed i am, and C's creators agree. < 1259008891 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: emulate middle button by holding down shift key while pressing right button < 1259008896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was mostly eliminated in plan 9 < 1259008905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now remember what i said about shifts? you left right after i arrived < 1259008910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's enact that system, it'll be wonderful < 1259008912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay I agree too. Just one question: < 1259008917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will you replace #include with? < 1259008930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for getting prototypes for library functions and such < 1259008941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: doesn't work (i'm using 9vx) < 1259008957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and system defines, or rather enums now I guess? < 1259008981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #include foo can simply look at /lib/foo < 1259008992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annotated with signatures, for instance < 1259008999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the immediate first idea i had, one of many options < 1259009005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the library will contain definitions of stuff like protypes and structs and such? < 1259009011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some magic way < 1259009037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not prototypes; as I said, the symbols are annotated with them. < 1259009047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some magic way like having a standardised format to define structures? Oh, how magical and crazy. < 1259009053 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://9fans.net/archive/2009/04/495 < 1259009064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just one idea; I'd think for longer about it, but I'm too lazy. I'll come to that problem when I come to it. < 1259009071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, why are you using sarcasm? < 1259009084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, magic is usually used disparagingly in this context... < 1259009093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps #include will simply parse the file, which must contain only declarations. < 1259009102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in this case I just meant "some yet to be defined meta data format" < 1259009133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes; just as my object format is yet to be defined. Did you read that my computer will actually link every symbol into the object as soon as it compiles them? < 1259009152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean static linking? Well no news < 1259009154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm using the same object format for objects, binaries and libraries. ld is just a composer. < 1259009157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't say that. < 1259009159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it again. < 1259009170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you going about your distro or your OS? < 1259009175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os. < 1259009181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well then all bets are off < 1259009181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc actually produces a $universal_object_format increementally. < 1259009185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just an .o < 1259009189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an .o too < 1259009193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as an .a and an (executable) < 1259009214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't assemble machine code, and then generate the object file; it does it as part of the code generation process, which is in the single pass like every other step. < 1259009233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It literally parses a chunk of code, generates the machine code for it, and adds it to the object (probably stored in memory until exit by default). < 1259009233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, weren't you going to use forth + smalltalk for your OS iirc? < 1259009241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run it as-is if it has a main(). < 1259009251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Executing foo just loads the object foo and calls main(); very simple. < 1259009272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can do "$ld myccode.o myotherlangcode.o -o combined.o". < 1259009281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which just merges the two objects) < 1259009285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1259009297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can have more than one OS project, can't I? < 1259009299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like anyone will use them/ < 1259009301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them. < 1259009302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1259009312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can you name them differently so we can keep them apart? < 1259009314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1259009326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by the way, on your distro you realise you will still be stuck with a special form of dynamic linking whatever you do? < 1259009346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is the form called "system call" < 1259009353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure your OS might get rid of it ;P < 1259009360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (1) The one I'm talking about with this architecture will probably be called Plan Y. (2) That is one idiotic definition of dynamic linking. < 1259009365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very strawmanesque. < 1259009384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Free joke: Y Plan Y? Y not?) < 1259009391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you could consider it IPC to kernel I guess < 1259009424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just disables scrolling button so he can middle-click for a few seconds
< 1259009428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is exactly what it is, more or less. < 1259009444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, none of the problems with dynamic linking apply to system calls. < 1259009470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System calls don't incur a runtime penalty to load the library; the kernel is the one running it! < 1259009485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System calls very, very, VERY rarely break compatibility. < 1259009492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using 9vx with a full plan9 distribution or are you using just the stripped down microdistro that is part of the 0.12 tarball < 1259009503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1259009514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And system call users are portable; < 1259009518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are never without the kernel. < 1259009521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: latter. < 1259009547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck shittingbugger i forgot what i was going to do in this plan9 :D < 1259009561 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should, in my opinion, download the plan9 .iso image and then mount it and copy it over to your disk, and run 9vx using that copied full plan9 distribution as your root < 1259009572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not too fussed about 9vx. < 1259009577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slow. meh. < 1259009582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for graphical shit < 1259009590 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are you using it in os x? < 1259009594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1259009600 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah ive heard its awfully slow in os x < 1259009614 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fast as fuck (and fuck was measured at 496.5 mph) in leenooks < 1259009657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking at 496.5 mph? intriguing concept. < 1259009660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds to todo list
< 1259009710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a n y w a y < 1259009895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you can trivially make a plan 9 / that boots on multiple architectures right? < 1259009926 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure thats why its set up the way it is < 1259009931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1259009937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: is that used for clusters? < 1259009938 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason a file server couldnt have stuff for every arch < 1259009963 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably so in the case of the blue gene project as a modern example < 1259009979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, install everything from /n/sources < 1259009982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the core distro < 1259009986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every arch supported < 1259009987 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259009991 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259009992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is literally all of plan 9 < 1259010000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be COMPLETE FOREVER < 1259010004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : System calls very, very, VERY rarely break compatibility. <-- that is because the kernel developers go to great lengths to avoid it < 1259010011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No shit, sherlock < 1259010015 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less, although there are a fair amount of projects that never got loaded onto sources for one reason or another < 1259010036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone has a plan 9 cluster with every supported arch < 1259010038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be hardcore < 1259010060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know how many variants of the stat() system call linux have had? < 1259010067 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be, however, a couple things - i think some of the supported arches may be moribund, in the sense that they were last actively used circa 1999 and need to be saved from bitrot < 1259010069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1259010070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HAS < 1259010076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLURALISATION! LEARN ITTTTTTTT < 1259010087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "had" because it was past tense < 1259010094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has had < 1259010094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1259010097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1259010098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have is plural. < 1259010101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux: singular. < 1259010103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has had things. < 1259010115 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable < 1259010118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, it's not handled perfectly, but it still works in practice, and all my other notes still apply. < 1259010123 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and secondly, i get the sense that apart from the HARE/blue gene project and los alamos and related, and coraid, and the lsub, and a few crazed hobbyists like me, there arent that many medium to large scale grids out there really < 1259010134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more a criticism of Linux, but at least it works in practice. < 1259010135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway around 6 or so I think < 1259010155 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-83-229.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259010168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how many archs does plan9 support? every one has a *c right? < 1259010183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 10 archs < 1259010195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 machines isn't such a big investment, esp as things like ARM only come in little, cheap form < 1259010205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And system call users are portable; <-- you have to make sure to not use ones added recently, if you want backward compatibility < 1259010209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparc, though, that'd be an investment < 1259010221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The relevant issue is forwards compatibility. < 1259010229 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure the biggest investment is in the time required to get something like 68000 up and running from whatever remains of the code for it < 1259010265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: personally i think dropping spim, 68000, 68020 and alpha would be smart < 1259010273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even mips and arm < 1259010275 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a practical matter indeed < 1259010282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd leave amd64, 386, sparc, power < 1259010287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, both apply somewhat if you need to support users on older systems too (like, in software that handles upgrading for example) < 1259010287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are probably quite used < 1259010303 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amd64 code isnt publicly released yet much to a lot of people's annoyance < 1259010314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you can't dynamically link to a function < 1259010316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have it work in the past either < 1259010337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was listing how the important issues of dynlinking don't apply to syscalls < 1259010349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and forward breakage is (no, the way glibc etc solve this by having old versions isn't really a solution) < 1259010353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1259010354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say that. Was just saying backward compat also mattered with system calls < 1259010358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ignore it ffs, i'm tired of talking about this one point < 1259010362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as forward compat < 1259010362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend i only made my other points < 1259010368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure < 1259010368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1259010376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it isn't? why not? < 1259010383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, drop amd64 then (is it new? i don't recall seeing it earlier) < 1259010394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd leave 386, sparc, power < 1259010402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine sparc is "quite" popular < 1259010405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and power is probably used a bit < 1259010410 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 development model isn't conventional open source (doesnt work like lkml) and they have an idea about releasing stuff when its 'ready' < 1259010429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no amd64? argh < 1259010430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that too except i don't release binaries until it's ready either. < 1259010436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: amd64 is supported; not open source. < 1259010437 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently amd64 still has some bugs or something < 1259010443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's crazy < 1259010443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone uses 386, anyway. < 1259010459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then the fact that plan 9 was closed source until the 90s is sheer lunacy death-defying mayhem < 1259010461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I might be getting a system with 8 GB ram soon < 1259010463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1259010464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, no, it's called being closed source < 1259010469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why should I care? < 1259010475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, plan 9 is used in clusters < 1259010488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, but nothing says each system has to be weak < 1259010489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blue Gene/L looks at your 8 GiB of RAM and laughs. it laughs. < 1259010491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1259010495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm aware < 1259010501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cluster with each node having 8 GiB of RAM is called a folly. < 1259010509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what arch is blue gene? < 1259010519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom iirc. < 1259010519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also road runner looks at blue gene and laughs :P < 1259010526 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its basically power64 isnt it? < 1259010529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :road runner has a shit architecture < 1259010533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. < 1259010539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not interesting at all it's just a bunch of computers lopped together < 1259010539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed arch < 1259010540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1259010543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue gene is magic < 1259010546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good magic < 1259010546 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the plan9 blue gene stuff just got released as a matter of fact < 1259010554 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sheevaplug too < 1259010558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore < 1259010558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/IBM_Blue_Gene_P_supercomputer.jpg < 1259010559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, road runner still beats it < 1259010561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is roadrunner this beautiful? < 1259010563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1259010569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if your only metric is marginal amounts of computing power. < 1259010571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is < 1259010581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, roadrunner is just a bunch of grills with computers in them < 1259010589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have a roadrunner fetish < 1259010610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roadrunner_supercomputer_HiRes.jpg < 1259010620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by what i said < 1259010624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so do I < 1259010635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roadrunner has an uninteresting architecture, building it is trivially easy (routers, computers and link cable? ok, just stick them up!), and it required no rea thought or innovation < 1259010660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it has is slightly more computing power than the competition, and furthermore it's being used on military stuff which is lame < 1259010678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually road runner uses Cell and Opetron iirc < 1259010692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i contradict that < 1259010692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1259010694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opteron* < 1259010697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blue gene otoh is innovative, made real bounds in computing power compared to previous supercomputers and cleverly designed) < 1259010704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and is < 1259010710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mixing two architectures doesn't sound trivial to me < 1259010719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like their CPU boards are mixed together......... < 1259010738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just compile each program for both architectures and they communicate with a common protocol. < 1259010745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thought involved whatsoever, it's exactly what you do with any cluster. < 1259010824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what is so great with blue gene exactly? < 1259010828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that it can run plan9 < 1259010834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is that way < 1259010841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, not can; does < 1259010850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 is used on blue gene/L for actual use < 1259010861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you saying it can't but still does‽ ... < 1259010868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1259010889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby direct you to http://xkcd.com/169/. < 1259010908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't care shit about it < 1259010918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You continue to fail at grammar forever. < 1259010928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so does your mom < 1259010930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: quick, say something interesting before I off myself due to tedium. < 1259010936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, give me a gun. < 1259010947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how much missing the point "meagry" would be
< 1259010950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably quite a lot < 1259010957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1259010977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, context? < 1259010984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehird's link < 1259010988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the traditional answer to the riddle < 1259011005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how AnMaster knew he didn't "care shit about it" when he clearly didn't even click. < 1259011008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep gry$ /usr/share/dict/words < 1259011010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angry < 1259011011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry < 1259011020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the dictionary here disagrees with the riddle in question < 1259011023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a black-box of link→doesCareShitAboutIt < 1259011026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not perfect, though) < 1259011039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I get more words: < 1259011041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aggry < 1259011041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahungry < 1259011041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angry < 1259011041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anhungry < 1259011042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry < 1259011044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unangry < 1259011048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1259011050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unangry" < 1259011052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ahungry"? < 1259011059 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you agree that the center of the 'average person' computing experience is shifting to mobile devices (phones blah blah) - if so, what are the implications for what systems designers such as yourself need to be doing? < 1259011073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: fuck all because people are idiots and i do research < 1259011073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, complete webster 1934 edition < 1259011077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: next question :D < 1259011078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says /usr/share/dict/README < 1259011082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh < 1259011086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, selected because copyright has elapsed < 1259011096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double heh, even though I vaguely guessed that < 1259011105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one here's a compilation of various open-source word lists < 1259011110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of which seem remarkably unsystematic < 1259011145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1259011173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't remember the details, nor can I be sufficiently bothered to look them up < 1259011183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway "aggry" seems to be a valid answer to the riddle < 1259011203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a riddle, it's a joke/prank. < 1259011222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a riddle it's an uninteresting literal interpretation; as a joke/prank it's infuriatingly idiotic. < 1259011222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to Google, it's only used in the combination "aggry beads" < 1259011233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the former is definitely derived from the latter; probably by idiots who can't even annoy correctly. < 1259011238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google will back me up on this. < 1259011240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the original riddle isn't a trick question and has "meagry" as the actual answer < 1259011246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a particularly interesting one, though < 1259011251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the Straight Dope disagrees with you < 1259011256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is infallible, after all. < 1259011258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love your "can't even annoy correctly" < 1259011287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a refined antitalent. < 1259011301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the modern decline in the quality of trolls < 1259011311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really good Usenet trolls I actually enjoy watching, it's a performance art < 1259011315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you rarely see them nowadays < 1259011324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an ideal troll leaves you wondering if they were a troll or not) < 1259011325 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usenet trolls of the late 90s were indeed the all time highwater mark of trolling I must say < 1259011335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that late? < 1259011341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that before or after the Eternal September? < 1259011345 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id say so because the audience was large < 1259011349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1993 is early september. < 1259011353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late 90s is just flooding and spam. < 1259011359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I mean before or during < 1259011364 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because web boards hadnt taken over by then < 1259011367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during < 1259011369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSL standard: ADSL2+ Mode < 1259011369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near-end bit rate: 18601 kbps < 1259011369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo, that was some good service. I sent an email two hours ago to their support service, complaining that my modem's saying "DSL standard: Error" and speeds are <= 8Mbps; now it's magically fixed. (Now if they'd just bother also replying to that email... still, admittedly it's not exactly office hours right now -- ~2325 localtime.) < 1259011382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read on encyclopedia dramatica about a totally epic-sounding usuenet war, lemme see if i can dig it up < 1259011389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1259011397 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 95-98 usenet was where the 'entire damn internet' had its conversation < 1259011407 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mailing lists also of course, although lots of overlap there < 1259011424 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was after the arrival of 'the general public' and before web based discussion forums took over < 1259011429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: encyclopedia dramatica's one of those sites I never knowingly click on links to < 1259011452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the deluge of ads and offensive language may hard-reboot your brain. < 1259011457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders about blocking it at the /etc/hosts level, and wonders what's the actually correct way rather than just redirecting it to 127.0.0.1 like everyone else does
< 1259011525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ED should be shut down by the president of the united states of USA, i hear they mocked lilo AFTER HE DIED < 1259011584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, can't find the article. < 1259011633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any other way? < 1259011664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I redirect to 127.0.0.2 < 1259011666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1259011673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some IPs reserved as invalid, I believe. < 1259011677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I sometimes run a development web server locally < 1259011681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good point < 1259011691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 127.0.0.2 should map to 127.0.0.1 < 1259011698 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259011700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, the whole of 127.0.0.0/8 is loopback < 1259011701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1259011702 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259011718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, that depends on what ips the web server is set up to listen to < 1259011721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128.0.0.0/16 Reserved (IANA) < 1259011721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :191.255.0.0/16 Reserved (IANA) < 1259011721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :192.0.0.0/24 Reserved (IANA) < 1259011722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :223.255.255.0/24 Reserved (IANA) < 1259011722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :240.0.0.0/4 Reserved (former Class E network) < 1259011731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "invalid", but reserved and unlikely to be released nonetheless. < 1259011733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wrong. < 1259011738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that the whole 127/8 *has* to be, but that's the usual. < 1259011738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :127.0.0.0/8 Loopback < 1259011738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure? < 1259011744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per RFC 3330. < 1259011770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't know but on my ubuntu laptop: < 1259011773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo Link encap:Local Loopback < 1259011773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 < 1259011773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host < 1259011779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, "skugry" is a great word, I should use it more often, as in at all < 1259011784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1259011785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Ubuntu is breaking the IP standard. < 1259011786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1259011786 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rings the Sacred Bell that announces the arrival of 'Per RFC #'
< 1259011786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not news. < 1259011790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong < 1259011791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is ordinarily implemented using only 127.0.0.1/32 for loopback, but no addresses within this block should ever appear on any network anywhere [RFC1700, page 5]." < 1259011792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it again < 1259011796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skugry: 16th-century spelling of the dialect word scuggery meaning 'secrecy' (the faint echo of 'skulduggery' is quite accidental!). < 1259011797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mask should make it work < 1259011799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1259011807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, are you sure? < 1259011826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1259011827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Mask:255.0.0.0 < 1259011829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at networking < 1259011833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implies that loopback handles the whole range < 1259011834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect that is how it works < 1259011835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right should work < 1259011859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still you can bind to exactly one of the ips that is bound to a specific interface < 1259011868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not really true. It just means that's the network it's in. It's not like the "inet addr:10.102.76.2 Bcast:10.102.76.255 Mask:255.255.255.0" in my eth0 implies it should handle the whole network. < 1259011892 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets start an urban myth that somewhere is an ultra secret computer designated as the TRUE 127.0.0.1 and secretly it gets to eavesdrop on everyone's loopback < 1259011894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it did < 1259011901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no < 1259011903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, route to our gateway for that network if we get something in range < 1259011917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that one is vaguely plausible for people who don't understand computing < 1259011938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, lets not < 1259011947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, 850*77.1 is actually 100000, there's a conspiracy amongst mathematicians and calculators to make people think it's 65535 < 1259011951 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there need to be more urban myths of computing though < 1259011961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Microsoft accidentally leaked the correct answer and were forced to hush it up by the CIA < 1259011986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want an hp calculator < 1259011992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-rpn is so efficient with calculator buttons < 1259011997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, btw, 850*77.1 is actually 100000, there's a conspiracy amongst mathematicians and calculators to make people think it's 65535 <-- I have yet to see a calculator that gave that answer < 1259011998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, "yes", in that sense that it gets routed to the lo device whenever it's in the network; "no" in the sense that the mask doesn't mean the device would normally accept any packets except the ones that actually have the destination address it has, namely, 127.0.0.1. < 1259012002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have you used a modern calculator? < 1259012004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those buttons are useless! < 1259012013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mushy useless pieces of shit < 1259012016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely ever register < 1259012020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, I agree with you there < 1259012021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slam them and still make errors < 1259012027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does loopback do to the ones that aren't aimed at 127.0.0.1? drop them? < 1259012032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ping 127.0.0.2
< 1259012037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/HP48G.jpg ;; the 48g is prettier than the TI-83 to boot < 1259012044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mushy useless pieces of shit <-- what are you talking about < 1259012044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact the lo device magic makes them handled anyway. < 1259012046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although less capable for programming stuff < 1259012050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting replies, at least < 1259012050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read context. < 1259012059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably from myself based on the ping times < 1259012059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be feasible to port rfk to the HP48G. < 1259012060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and it doesn't make sense to me < 1259012066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why not? < 1259012077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like the lo device is always in promiscuous mode, and... uh, something else so that the packets are even processed by the relevant stacks. < 1259012080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://127.0.0.2/ is /var/www/index.html < 1259012089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I used TI-84 and I didn't find it's keys "mushy" < 1259012094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my own is a TI-83+ < 1259012094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I said "modern". < 1259012104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, TI-84 is modern, TI-83+ isn't < 1259012108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the cheaper ones. < 1259012115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you pay a lot you get good buttons. < 1259012117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, such as? < 1259012129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything from 0 to 30 dollars? < 1259012136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe >30. < 1259012142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean non-graphing calc? < 1259012150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "calculator". < 1259012161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure you can get a graphing calculator that cheap; it'll just be shitty, is all. < 1259012164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, I haven't owned any sort by graphing calculator for *years* < 1259012171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't think of the other type at all < 1259012174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't take much to go from simple table calculation and display to graphs. < 1259012178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's installer -- at least at one time -- adds into /etc/hosts "127.0.0.1 localhost" and "127.0.1.1 host.domain host", where "host.domain" are the values you provide during the installation; this is so that things don't get confused -- you still have 127.0.0.1 == localhost, and still get locally delivered packets if you use the computer name itself. < 1259012186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit higher-res screen, a slightly faster CPU, a little more RAM and some routines. < 1259012194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when someone says calculator, I first think of a TI-83+ < 1259012198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure they do that nowadays, since it sort of breaks things if you change the hostname but don't remember that /etc/hosts entry. < 1259012199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so used to it < 1259012211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, TI-83+ is low res < 1259012214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not high res < 1259012220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by any definition < 1259012221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what I said. < 1259012223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed otherwise. < 1259012243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheaper calculators just show tables in smaller font; they normally manage one line of input and one of results. < 1259012248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a bit more. < 1259012249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1259012256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, wow; the HP-48 series calculators have a hierarchical filesystem and a real-time clock. < 1259012272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well did you mean one of those that is just [-+*/%0-9] plus "remember number" and "recall number"? < 1259012273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1259012280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1259012287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a segment in between? < 1259012290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen those < 1259012290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1259012313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tables you said? hm < 1259012317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That + sin/cos/etc + a few variables + display settings + simple table calculation (one variable, limited range). < 1259012326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1259012329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one that's the above but without table calculation lying around somewhere. < 1259012330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, multi-line screen? < 1259012334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or single line? < 1259012336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One or two lines. < 1259012342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; "function calculator" (literal translation) is the name for that segment in Finnish. < 1259012348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you make a table with 1-2 lines? < 1259012355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well two I guess < 1259012357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1? < 1259012358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They display the expression before evaluation, have history and recall, let you use the previous result as a variable and have one line for result. < 1259012360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Smaller font. < 1259012371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1259012407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can't use graphical calculators in most of our high-school exams, those things were pretty popular in the sense that everyone had one at exam-time. I'm not sure how the rules go in other places. < 1259012408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and those have mushy buttons? < 1259012433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although less so than cheaper ones. < 1259012434 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of calculator's, i think something like knuth's tcalc for arithmetic with arbitrarily large integers should be available in all calculators and computing environments < 1259012435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheaper calculators let you spell 5319009 and turn it upside-down and you get a dirty word, eh-ee-hee. < 1259012441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god i apostrophed forgive me < 1259012442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: *calculators < 1259012447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, luckily graphing ones are fine at university. And at high school it was usually "no calculators, or school provided ones" at exams < 1259012449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, arbitrarily large integers are rarely useful. < 1259012469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit covers most of all calculations you want to do, 128-bit most of the rest, and anything else should be done on a real computer. < 1259012491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I needed 10^94 once iirc on my calc. It goes to 10^99 btw < 1259012492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, and you get enough electricity from a small solar cell to provide power for a device that simple, so you don't need to worry about stale batteries. < 1259012494 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i disagree, dont you realize that the VAST MAJORITY of integers are very, very large? < 1259012505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Nothing I said contradicts this. < 1259012511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you not think calculator environments are intended for humans? < 1259012516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I don't need to on my TI-83+ either. Because it's batteries last for years < 1259012526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I replaced like 4 years ago now last time < 1259012533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still working fine, has been used a lot < 1259012549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2^64 is a little bit over 10^94. < 1259012555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10^99 < 1259012579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err what? < 1259012580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it very suspicious that a^b would be over c^d when both a ais523: it irritates me to no end that mathematics is equated with mental arithmetic in the pre-university segments of education <-- me too < 1259012912 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thought is that the bagel i just toasted is going to be delicious < 1259012916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't access hardware; the UML kernel has most of the drivers stripped off. < 1259012920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Still, disallowing calculators is far more commonplace than reasonable. < 1259012922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mycroftiv: it's just a forked linux kernel, I think <-- part of official kernel sources < 1259012924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a fork < 1259012934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if that is the sense you meant it in) < 1259012935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the non-calculator bits are to do with things like asking people what sin 30 is and wanting them to work it out from first principles rather than just putting it into their calculators < 1259012946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see /usr/src/linux/arch/um < 1259012947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1259012949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, they do it for an entire exam even when half of it would be irrelevant < 1259012957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd much prefer you to simply have to explain what sin is and how it's calculated rather than trivial menial work. < 1259012969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but then people might not get full marks < 1259012973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least sin 30 is easily memorisable < 1259012976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: IIRC, at GCSE there was a mental arithmetic test that was separate from the main maths tests <-- was using paper and pen allowed? < 1259012981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, duh. < 1259012982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really < 1259012985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1259012989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1259012989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1259012990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't have managed then < 1259012993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had to answer on a piece of paper that only had just enough space for the answers < 1259012995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none for working < 1259013006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was, after all, a /mental/ arithmetic test < 1259013008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, as I was saying; but then schools have a culture of rote memorisation, copying and menial work. < 1259013011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't keep numbers in my head. paper and pen I can manage < 1259013014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you had about 5 seconds for each question < 1259013016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental arithmetic is just useless < 1259013017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculous crap, the lot of it. < 1259013018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the questions were read out from tape < 1259013019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, horrible < 1259013021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 5 seconds? < 1259013024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was the point < 1259013029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't add two two-digit numbers in five seconds < 1259013029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to test mental arithmetic < 1259013036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1259013038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i can < 1259013041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaggerated slightly there :P < 1259013063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and who had to take this test? < 1259013076 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental arithmetic is useless...until you are piloting a starfreighter that gets struck by an asteroid and you have to rapidly calculate an emergency trajectory to save your desperately needed cargo of medical supplies for the orphans on Zarbulus 4 < 1259013078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was part of the maths GCSE when I did it < 1259013085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, GCSE = ? < 1259013101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mental arithmetic is indeed totally useless. < 1259013101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: major exam at about 15 years old < 1259013121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the lowest qualification that makes you eligible for any job that requires any thought at all, nowadays < 1259013126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, ah, that is why I have a backup computer in *my* starship ;P < 1259013154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental arithmetic is useful when you have a reputation for being good at maths and all the other students in the school muddle maths and mental arithmetic < 1259013155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm, good think I didn't live in UK < 1259013175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the mark for the top grade is rumoured to be somewhere between 20 and 30 percent < 1259013230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uhh, but the Swedish educational system is worse by far. < 1259013236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since I completely fail at mental arithmetics. I can manage with paper and pen and time. But I couldn't add any except trivial two digit numbers in my head in 5 seconds (I could manage stuff like: 50+50 or 20+2) < 1259013242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allegedly (according to a Murdoch-owned news source found via Google) 16% was enough for a C in maths in 2005, 47% for an A* < 1259013246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(23+19 I couldn't for example) < 1259013253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 < 1259013260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1259013260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Murdoch-owned sources: the most reliable kind! < 1259013264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, the opposite. < 1259013275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey kids, let's learn our TIMES TABLES < 1259013278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's ironic because of the big row between him and Google < 1259013280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it is. But it isn't doing such stupid tests < 1259013283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE TIMES TWO IS TWO < 1259013285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I had to sit through that for months in school! < 1259013286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO TIMES TWO IS FOUR < 1259013290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREE TIMES TWO IS SIX < 1259013294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was even a little tape that set times tables to music < 1259013294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUR TIMES TWO IS EIGHT < 1259013298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH MAKE IT STOP KILL ME NOW < 1259013334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually goes "lets see, which one is the closest one I remember, how much to substract/add from that"
< 1259013347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm talking about the times table too :P < 1259013351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... theory: part of the reason the pass marks are so low is due to competition between exam boards < 1259013368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's an exam board? < 1259013378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an organisation responsible for setting and marking exams < 1259013390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that some part of the gov? < 1259013395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schools get to choose which one to use for each individual exam, within reason < 1259013399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in Sweden at least < 1259013401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not directly part of the government < 1259013428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example news story: you can see < 1259013430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, wrong paste < 1259013438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example news story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/oct/24/science-grades-changed < 1259013456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, Ofqual are a government body that tell the exam boards what to do < 1259013466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here's an example news story: you can see" < 1259013472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't I before? < 1259013483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely it's self-evident? < 1259013488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a "this article does not reflect a worldwide view" template on wikipedia *but for a single section*? < 1259013510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to find one < 1259013520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be the same one with a param < 1259013528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh. < 1259013535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for AnMaster, who doesn't live in the UK and for whom it therefore isn't obvious < 1259013550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:59] ehird: "here's an example news story: you can see" < 1259013550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:59] ehird: Couldn't I before? < 1259013550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:59] ehird: And surely it's self-evident? < 1259013553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You super fail < 1259013572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah indeed it seems so < 1259013572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: {{globalise-section}}, anyway < 1259013575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1259013883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/hare.index.html "Hare" = "Holistic Aggregate Resource Environment" and there is the plan9 "bunny" there too. < 1259013885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reviving for a moment the calculator conversation fork, what I had for exam-time and other unsorted needs, was http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti30x_iis.html < 1259013885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me < 1259013902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that "hare" seem like a bacronym? < 1259013909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+spelling < 1259013915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you are practically of infinite genius. < 1259013919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"backronym" is the usual spelling, though < 1259013924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, why did I say "though" < 1259013924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I said +spelling < 1259014326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfghjkl; < 1259014444 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1259015010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdeghj < 1259015011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1259015137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: can you summarise plan b for me? < 1259015163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like an upside-down plan 9? < 1259015177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's an operating system implemented on top of plan 9 < 1259015184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the 4th edition is < 1259015192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gather that older ones were independent < 1259015201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps not, ,who knows < 1259015203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not, who < 1259015504 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1259015562 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259015576 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1259015849 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259015914 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-5-129.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1259015948 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259017334 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259018139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9? < 1259018296 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1259018408 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259018498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9?mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9?mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9?mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9?mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9?mycroftiv: how are syscalls done in p9? < 1259018504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1259018564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves laying down in bed with his computer
< 1259018568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1259018582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, thanks for imparting that... information. < 1259018610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I meant, non-pervertedly, right? < 1259018728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... "non-pervertedly"... < 1259018740 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-91-250.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259018888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259018889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1259018891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1259018910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1259018920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: What. < 1259018976 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why /WHE*/? < 1259018986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1259019008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When libc is built, it generates a set of small assembly functions that move the system call number to a register and perform interrupt 0x40." < 1259019013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring and expected! < 1259019050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you rather have "clever"? < 1259019157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lying in bed is fun, but there's no way I'm coding like this. Moving to the den < 1259019360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tell untruths in bed aaaaaall the time. < 1259019389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What/ < 1259019399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB, disconnecting from wireless < 1259019420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lie. < 1259019421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In bed. < 1259019426 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259019469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how easy and cheap is it to assemble a box that can run plan 9 perfectly, with the least fuss in operation; using more modern components where possible (i.e. not a 486) as long as it doesn't cause problems? < 1259019480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly < 1259019485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assume a combined cpu server/graphical console; i can extrapolate from that) < 1259019489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to have a native p9 < 1259019590 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1259019804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diagrams I have seen seem to be recommending things like seperate file servers < 1259019810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1259019865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1259019892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i know what a "full box" is, though, then I can take a bit away from it and add a little bit to it to get each machine < 1259019922 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my school has a den, too. < 1259019962 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains wolves, making it obviously similar to Sgeo's. < 1259020079 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1259020114 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1259020168 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1259020218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: who was that to? < 1259020277 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering what Warrigal was writing, WRT "wolves" < 1259020326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :P < 1259020339 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, the wolves are all powerful computers. < 1259020354 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why they're called wolves, only Professor Wolffe knows for sure. < 1259020359 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1259020407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How powerful, exactly? < 1259020612 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. More powerful than your average desktop computer. Not necessarily more powerful than your average desktop computer five years from now. < 1259020654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How huge are they, what kind of casing are they in, how loud are they, and how many are there? The four heuristics of computing power! < 1259020723 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also applicable to other areas of life < 1259020746 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1259020792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um... yeses. < 1259020793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1259020804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly gay orgies, though. < 1259021129 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1259021145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1259021156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1259021209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1259021242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq. hi all < 1259021714 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1259021804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatter['3']=fmtrot13; < 1259021805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("spoiler: %3\n", "snape killed dumbledore"); < 1259021809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss. < 1259021878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Java user signed off" < 1259021884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It was his sled. < 1259021944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(s=nil; s=nextspoiler("http://www.threadless.com/product/844/Spoilt"); s) { < 1259021944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%3\n", s); < 1259021944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1259021957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if the number needs to be followed by an ordinary printf character? < 1259021969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like d or f < 1259021980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché, I hadn't even thought of that < 1259021997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't want to think of an appropriate alphanumeric :) < 1259022036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think H is taken (as in hide) < 1259022056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'3'/'H'/; s/%3/%H/ < 1259022320 0 :augur!n=augur@216.164.33.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259022469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual fmtrot13 function would probably look something like http://sprunge.us/DGfQ. < 1259022482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely with annotations for printf typechecking. < 1259022497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1259022502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to correct that. < 1259022525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/MGNM < 1259022529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now it actually rot13s. :P < 1259022570 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@92.135.153.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259022670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If a note interrupts a system call and the note handler calls noted(NCONT), the system call terminates early with error string interrupted. This is very important, as it can be a cause of errors. Beware." < 1259022670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, PC loser-ing! < 1259023205 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1259023710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1259023784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.apachenews.org/ < 1259023784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issue: Must commit suicide < 1259023784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolution: CANTFIX < 1259023784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments: < 1259023785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could not find enough money for alcohol. […] Please donate. < 1259023831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a74li/he_will_commit_suicide/c0g60ij) < 1259024310 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1259024611 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259024742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq. < 1259024962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ehird. < 1259024986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I tempted to play with NaCl? < 1259024997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that PC loser-ing as seen in the Worse is Better paper is still an actual issue (although of reduced importance, of course) in Plan 9 today? < 1259024998 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Grab some Na and some Cl and make popcorn < 1259025008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If a note interrupts a system call and the note handler calls noted(NCONT), the system call terminates early with error string interrupted. This is very important, as it can be a cause of errors. Beware." < 1259025012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because go supports it? < 1259025020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this thus must be an implicit endorsement! < 1259025036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nacl is cool, i just wish it didn't focus on web stuff < 1259025039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Go supports it? Well, then. That was my one major question. :) < 1259025057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wish that NaCl was a more generic sandboxing setup, yeah. < 1259025057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just set GOOS=nacl and go wild < 1259025069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: http://golang.org/pkg/exp/nacl/ < 1259025113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8g foo.go; 8l foo.8 will result in 8.out being whatever nacl wants, I expect < 1259025123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest compiling with an x86 target on whatever host you have. < 1259025135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, GOARCH=386 GOOS=nacl, I believe. < 1259025145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty nice for safe arbitrary code execution (never thought I'd say *that* about x86 code) in HTML, but it'd be really nice to see it used for, say, Plash. < 1259025148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that might try and compile them as 386 compilers. < 1259025154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When in doubt, read the build system. :P < 1259025212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, nacl is x86 only. < 1259025218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that includes amd64. < 1259025230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, does it mean the browser has to run as x86, or just the plugin? < 1259025265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using 8* is obviously the only sane choice for NaCl with Go (probably compiled for amd64 for you), so it's only relevant as far as actually using the results goes. < 1259025266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly just the plugin. Though you *may* need to use nspluginwrapper. < 1259025405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/structural_regexps/se.pdf is sweet < 1259025548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/visi is intriguing. (gawd, it's so easy to get lost in cat-v.org) < 1259025605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its interface appears to be like vi except always in : mode < 1259025844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, a hidden bonus about Go — it contains a full port of Ken Thompson's Plan 9 C compilers to Linux/OS X compiling from and to all of arm, x86 and amd64. < 1259025854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a first < 1259025868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat nice. < 1259025871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you can use it with plan9port's lib9 instead of libc... < 1259025880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila: plan9port now has a compiler and a library. < 1259025886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1259025891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ and a library/d < 1259025898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already has lib9. :P < 1259025920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Plan9port can be used to run Plan9-esque things on Linux without too much effort. < 1259025945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Go doesn't support Plan 9, yet the gc compiler is written in Plan 9 C. < 1259025952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be a viable path! < 1259025957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1259025967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that lets me write Plan 9 C. < 1259025970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :D < 1259025983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1259025991 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1259025992 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1259025992 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1259026018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recompiles plan9port as 64-bit; tries to compile plan 9 hello world
< 1259026027 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1259026027 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1259026027 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1259026050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, C that actually handles Unicode right without silly libraries... Or taking special care not to break the UTF-8. < 1259026075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with decent IO libraries, and an extensible printf. < 1259026081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C that compiles really quickly. < 1259026092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with Go-style inheritance (the bio library uses it, for instance). < 1259026096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does the Plan 9 C compiler target NaCl? < 1259026106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... C with Go-style inheritance? < 1259026108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. You could try. < 1259026113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep; it has unnamed structs. < 1259026119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. < 1259026122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Bar { struct Foo *; } < 1259026126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1259026129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Bar { struct Foo; } < 1259026143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can now use a (struct Bar *) as a (struct Foo *). < 1259026167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So bar->fooField works, funcExpectingFoo(bar), etc. < 1259026175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No interfaces, though, but still. It's nice. < 1259026184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/2c for more < 1259026288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr of the rest: (struct S){v1,v2,v3}. int a[] = {[3]1,[10]5}, a[3]==1. (struct S){.x 2, .y 3}. #pragma lib "foo" makes linker link foo automatically to this program (it's in library headers). printf typechecking. //comments work. long long=64-bit;vlong=long long;uvlong=unsigned long long; emulated on 32-bit (so no switch(){}) < 1259026482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pragma lib, eh... Man, that alone makes C nicer. < 1259026486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, C build systems. < 1259026498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deprecates autoconf. :P < 1259026525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, if your include files include any other include files you will be poked with a rusty stick, so don't do that. Also, use bio. < 1259026529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it for Plan 9 C, really. < 1259026542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and exit statuses are strings; exits(0) for success, exits("foo") for failure. < 1259026555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except plan9port just translates them to 0 or 1; sux2bu. < 1259026590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does plan9port at least put the error string to stderr? < 1259026598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something similar?) < 1259026606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, afaik. < 1259026608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1259026616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't too much of a big deal in practice, anyway. < 1259026617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaw. < 1259026630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a huge deal, but would be nice. < 1259026783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6c -I$PLAN9/include hello.c < 1259026785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1259026787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6c -I$PLAN9/include hello.c < 1259026787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Users/ehird/plan9/include/u.h:5 hello.c:1 unknown #: if < 1259026787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Users/ehird/plan9/include/u.h:6 hello.c:1 syntax error, last name: "" < 1259026797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First issue: plan9port, obviously, depends on non-plan9 things. < 1259026802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: -p. < 1259026806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invokes cpp before compiling. < 1259026809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: HIDEOUS OW OW OW < 1259026821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't exec C preprocessor /bin/cpp: No such file or directory < 1259026822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the best start, I must say. < 1259026831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does cc -E hello.c
< 1259026867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the #pragmas aren't there either, of course. Using Plan 9's header files may prove fruitful. < 1259026886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello2.c:60 not a function < 1259026886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello2.c:60 syntax error, last name: __darwin_va_list < 1259026886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably look at Go's source. < 1259026959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls $GOROOT/include < 1259026959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ar.h fmt.h u.h ureg_x86.h < 1259026959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bio.h libc.h ureg_amd64.h utf.h < 1259026959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootexec.h mach.h ureg_arm.h < 1259026960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bingo. < 1259026965 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1259026969 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1259026970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1259026972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's justs plan9port's. < 1259026975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1259027017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Okay, so gc is compiled with gcc, just with lib9 instead of libc. < 1259027020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing. < 1259027043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6c hello.c < 1259027043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c:7 function args not checked: print < 1259027043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c:8 function args not checked: exits < 1259027043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs headers. < 1259027080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6l /Users/ehird/plan9/lib/lib9.a hello.6 < 1259027080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails... < 1259027082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who can't type-check by hand, that's who. :P < 1259027087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This will probably take quite some work. :P < 1259027118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, -l9 produces *different* errors! < 1259027172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. I give up for now. < 1259027443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, I forgot one thing about Plan 9 C — no consst. < 1259027446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*const < 1259027454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it may have been added since the paper. I doubt it, though. < 1259027460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mixed feelings about that. < 1259027487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The keywords register, volatile, and const, are recognised syntactically but are semantically ignored. Volatile seems to have no meaning, so it is hard to tell if ignoring it is a departure from the standard. Const only confuses library interfaces with the hope of catching some rare errors." < 1259027504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the one hand: it is nice being able to enforce const. On the other hand, const in C is done very poorly. < 1259027518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general I agree; I don't think I've ever had a single error caught thanks to const-correctness, and when trying to transform my own code into const-correct style, type signatures blow up and become completely incomprehensible and useless. < 1259027583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as though the ISO committee saw the issues with function pointer declarations, and thought "Hmm. The problem with this is that it's not incomprehensible enough. Let's add a keyword!" < 1259027763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intelligence of a group is inversely proportional to the sum of the intelligence of everyone in it, clamped to a maximum value equal to that of the least intelligent person in the group. < 1259027766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove me wrong. < 1259027773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not inversely proportional in that way. < 1259027778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A group with one dumb person is really dumb. < 1259027786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a group with two intelligent people isn't as intelligent as one intelligent person. < 1259027787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get the idea. < 1259028006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counter-example: the Haskell committee. < 1259028051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Statistical anomalies exist; 2. maybe this isn't one. They really are that smart. < 1259028060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 is only half-joking. < 1259028061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches for the obligatory despair.com link
< 1259028078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://despair.com/meetings.html < 1259028084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Haskell is probably a statistical anomaly. < 1259028102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filled with people who know exactly when to let go or something. < 1259028216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a small subset that dictate things. < 1259028252 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1259028658 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1259028773 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-189-194.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259029287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Java user signed off" < 1259029644 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1259030416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KI8QLm8Inw i have no idea what this is < 1259030613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1259033061 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. philosophy canceled again. then we'll have two weeks to get through 2/3 of Genealogy of Morality. < 1259034001 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1259034123 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1259034148 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1259034574 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1259035786 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm writing terrible code < 1259035787 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in (i for i in puzzle_objects.iterkeys() if i.startswith("#GREEN:")): < 1259036389 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg unpythonic! shun! shunn! < 1259036533 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I mention I dislike the word "pythonic"? Anyway.. not sure there's a cleaner way using generator expressions :/ they're not so much a substitute for filtering with effectful things :/ < 1259040078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1259044345 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1259045652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1259045923 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1259046030 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259046042 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259046126 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1259047432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1259048782 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1259049599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1259049600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1259049945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable < 1259052082 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259052086 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259053644 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259053834 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1259055426 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-diwcpzjcnhzsbvvl JOIN :#esoteric < 1259056886 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-59.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1259057089 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1259057142 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259071209 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1259071445 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1259078796 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1259078796 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1259078797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would you do if computer locked up in the morning with the disk lamp fixed on but not kernel panic or responding at all (needed reset button), memtest showing nothing after running for 8 hours, disk seeming to be just fine (once journal recovery completed) but last log message ended with some garbled chars < 1259078807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1259078816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about the same time the home alarm system broke down < 1259078827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of electrical issues? < 1259078834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume a brownout, and try to REISUB, or failing that, hard-reboot < 1259078841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if you've rebooted already, it should be OK < 1259078844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, reisub? < 1259078854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rebooting a Linux system by hand < 1259078858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I ran full fsck on all partitions too just in case. < 1259078868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-(sysrq+r), alt-(sysrq+e), etc < 1259078874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, holding down power button *didn't* work. that's unusual < 1259078881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to actually use the reset button instead < 1259078893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sysrq didn't respond < 1259078897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did test that < 1259078910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a brownout happens when a power supply malfunction means that the voltage input isn't high enough to cause the system to act correctly < 1259078920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't low enough to make it think there's been a power cut and power off < 1259078934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm now that I think about it, I think one of the lamps flickered around then < 1259078935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 5V system, it's normally somewhere around 4V < 1259078971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I wouldn't guess that, but it's plausible if other unrelated electronic devices have similar problems < 1259079020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the home alarm system is completely broken, it reported a spurious alarm and now just shows a red single LED on the front marked "error" < 1259079030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to get some service people here tomorrow < 1259079044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity) < 1259079070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most power supplies cope with them badly < 1259079075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's even more odd was that the disk access light was stuck at "accessing" but yet the harddrive was definitely spun down < 1259079092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my harddrive is rather loud) < 1259079111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity) <-- redirects to "power outage" < 1259079116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've had plenty of brownouts when doing electronics myself, sometimes even deliberately < 1259079119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know < 1259079129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers getting an UPS
< 1259079155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its basic effect on most microprocessors and similar devices is to randomly set some of the bits in memory to 0 (or to 1, depending on how the memory works) < 1259079159 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1259079161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including things like registers < 1259079195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most computers can't recover sanely from that state; it might be interesting to try to write an esolang (with program stored in simulated ROM) where programs had to be able to < 1259079222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, usually you use something like an UPS or such iirc? < 1259079251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and is it even possible to recover in a sane way except 1) preventing it in the first place 2) detect it and force a reboot < 1259079269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably not; 2) is a very common solution < 1259079271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers some PIC with a "brown out detection" feature or such
< 1259079296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for servers/desktops I assume 1 is more common (as in UPS or similar) < 1259079299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's common to get small brownout detectors that work at a range of voltages, that hard-reset the hardware if they detect a brownout < 1259079302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 for embedded systems? < 1259079307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems about right < 1259079320 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-193.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1259079349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would a brown out cause "normal" light bulbs to dim but a fluorescent(sp?) one to flicker? < 1259079359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if so I think it's a perfect match < 1259079366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, seems about right < 1259079384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal lamps dimming is the most obvious effect, it's where the name brownout comes from < 1259079390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they go brown, but not altogether off < 1259079427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a low energy lamp dimmed rather than flickered, and I thought they operated on similar principle to fluorescent ones? < 1259079434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1259079471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how they worked < 1259079488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, were you recording the behaviour of all the lamps in your house when this happened? or do you/your family have a really good memory? < 1259079498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has it been browning out so constantly you've had time to go round and check? < 1259079502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was eating breakfast < 1259079514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was standing just besides a fluorescent lamp < 1259079524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a non-fluorescent in the window < 1259079535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a low energy one also in view < 1259079556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from system logs I reconstructed that the lock up must have happened at aprox the same time +- 5 minutes < 1259079572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I found the computer locked up about 5 minutes after < 1259079592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1259079593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and last system log message (something from cron) was about 10 minutes before I found it that way < 1259079637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, fsck definitely seems broken on this computer < 1259079645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logon autofsck keeps stopping at 89-90% < 1259079652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no disk activity, and with the computer locked up < 1259079666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, home alarm system I noticed a short while later, and it hadn't been like that when I went downstairs. So that gives an aprox +/- 20 minutes range on the home alarm system error led turning on < 1259079670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around the same point in time < 1259079677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it did just go from 89 to 90 < 1259079686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange given the lack of disk activitu < 1259079687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't seem too far fetched to connect them < 1259079689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*activity < 1259079700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll wait a while and see if it goes up higher < 1259079717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... is that the "mounted n times, fsck forced" fsck? < 1259079727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1259079740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, hidden behind a graphical bootsplash thing < 1259079842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw did you know that fsck.xfs just returns 0? < 1259079860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fsck.xfs is called by the generic Linux fsck(8) program at startup to check and repair an XFS filesystem. XFS is a journaling filesystem < 1259079860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and performs recovery at mount(8) time if necessary, so fsck.xfs simply exits with a zero exit status. < 1259079862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man page < 1259079897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is xfs_check to actually check things if you want to < 1259079910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do you use the bootsplash thing? < 1259079912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1259079917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's on there by default < 1259079925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one change in grub iirc? < 1259079939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like adding nosplash < 1259079941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1259079942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if ubuntu) < 1259079953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Ubuntu change round the boot sequence every now and then < 1259079962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and part of the reason I'm running Ubuntu is to try to debug it for everyone else < 1259080001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah I'm still on jaunty < 1259080009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like there will be a kernel upgrade today < 1259080010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1259080065 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1259080095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * SAUCE: Enable speakers for Toshiba NB200 (Realtek ALC272) < 1259080095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - LP: #438318 < 1259080104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what "sauce" means
< 1259080115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that context < 1259080160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to refer to any kernel module < 1259080265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least the relevant part of the version number didn't change, so I don't have to mess around with the various external modules (virtualbox, backported wlan drivers, and so on) < 1259080668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what causes a brown out? < 1259080704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: usual cause on the small scale is trying to draw too much current from one power supply < 1259080709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can happen on the large scale too < 1259080725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the supply available for a neighborhood or an entire city isn't enough to meet demand < 1259080732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1259081907 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1259084416 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1259087094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/487744 < 1259087104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's something really wrong with the page