00:02:56 <pikhq> augur: forall x, x in y implies YOU ARE DOOMED.
00:03:14 <augur> i found someone i can talk logic to :D
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00:57:28 <Gregor> pikhq: You're not in #plof D-8<
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01:11:23 <madbr> Can anyone remind me the name of the small game VM some people used?
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11:05:49 <fizzie> " * Support for all major 3rd party applications & Programming support for Visual C#, Visual C/C++, Visual Basic, VB.NET, Delphi, Java & ActiveX": that
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12:58:46 <oerjan> <fizzie> For "explicit" recursion, when you need it, there's also the "recurse" word, that recursively calls the word you're defining.
12:59:00 <oerjan> ah. but is that usable for mutual recursion?
13:01:02 <fizzie> Not really, no. But like he said, there is some sort of a forward-definition trickery.
13:04:07 <oerjan> AnMaster: oh dear it's that day again
13:05:03 <oerjan> and i discover that i have this awkward tendency to sometimes look at the last panel first...
13:06:29 <oklokok> basically you haven't actually read any of the comics, because that doesn't count
13:07:01 <oerjan> indeed. however fortunately this time there was a second pun i didn't notice during the automatic peek
13:07:32 <oklokok> ah. i guess i'll give you half the points then.
13:08:17 <oerjan> maybe it really is an inborn tendency to cheat. that would also explain my recent tendency to read plot summaries of books i haven't read on wikipedia
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13:12:10 <oerjan> i vaguely recall in fahrenheit 451 (which i actually have read) people only read plot summaries, although the real books were of course illegal.
13:12:59 <oerjan> or, well, very condensed versions
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13:17:26 <oerjan> incidentally i read somewhere recently that the name fahrenheit 451 is a cheat... the actual temperature for paper to catch fire is 451 _celsius_
13:17:36 <fizzie> I've been doing the Wikipedia plot summary reading too.
13:18:32 <oerjan> hm, "somewhere" may actually have been the wikipedia article, it's in there
13:20:03 <fizzie> `wolfram autoignition temperature of paper
13:20:11 <HackEgo> autoignition temperature of paper \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ autoignition temperature of paper \ Result: \ \ 218 to 246 °C degrees Celsius \ the temperature 451° Fahrenheit, made famous by Ray Bradbury's classic 1953 science fiction novel Fahrenheit 451, falls near the middle of this range \ \ Unit conversions: \
13:20:38 <fizzie> And, as we well know, W|A is the Truth.
13:21:14 <oerjan> well, i wouldn't necessarily bet on wikipedia in a direct contest there
13:22:34 <fizzie> Well, the Wikipedia article says: "sources contemporary with the novel's writing gave the temperature as 450 °C (842 °F)". It might be that those sources were wrong; but if so, it is a nice coincidence if the real temperature in fact was 451 deg. Fahrenheit.
13:22:43 <fizzie> Bradbury must've been a seer.
13:23:01 <oerjan> actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature agrees with W|A
13:24:33 <fizzie> The [2] reference from the book article -- Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2 -- is for the second edition, published in 2001, and gives the 450 degrees Celsius number.
13:24:43 <oerjan> wait, the Fahrenheit 451 article has a better cite
13:25:48 <fizzie> On the other hand, W|A is never wrong. In fact, you can influence reality if you can convince the Wolfram people to slip a factoid in there.
13:26:48 <oerjan> oh _both_ wp articles have cites...
13:27:31 <oerjan> http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html
13:29:03 <fizzie> The Handbook also has a citation [19] for that 450 degree Celsius number, but I can't navigate that books.google.com preview thing to find the list of references.
13:30:33 <fizzie> Right, only the first reference is visible; "pages 473-476 are not part of this book preview".
13:30:56 <oerjan> hm the cotton value also disagrees between the two
13:31:53 <oerjan> i'm starting to think that one of the sources must have bungled a unit conversion
13:32:19 <fizzie> That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2".
13:32:57 <fizzie> Especially when they've managed to write 560 pages of the physical properties of paper, and that's just volume 2.
13:36:44 <fizzie> Maybe I should go and check out http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Properties-International-Science-Technology/dp/0824775600 from the Forest Products Technology Library of the university, but that's a small walk away, and really, the Internet should provide reasonable answers to such fundamental questions.
13:37:42 <fizzie> It might not even have anything about it.
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13:38:57 <oklokok> just test, take two ovens that can generate 225C and put one inside the other to get 450C
13:39:42 <fizzie> I think I like the technical term FURNACE more.
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13:40:26 <fizzie> We had a physics lab experiment that was related to temperature somehow, and the experiment instructions talked about the FURNACE all the time. It never got old to pronounce the word in a "FURNACE of DEATH" style.
13:41:04 <fizzie> (At least when "never" is limited to the two-or-so hours of labtime.)
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16:21:06 <oklokok> damn oerjan with his leavings
16:31:50 <nooga> i had llvm-gcc installed and now my system can't find llvm-gcc command
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17:35:29 <AnMaster> <nooga> i had llvm-gcc installed and now my system can't find llvm-gcc command
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17:40:55 <ais523> wow, timezone update for Antarctica
17:41:00 <ais523> I wonder if anyone actually uses Ubuntu there?
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18:20:49 <nooga> theres no llvm-gcc at all
18:20:50 <ais523> presumably it's just in case, hten
18:20:56 <ais523> oh, answering to someone else
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18:49:44 <AnMaster> ais523, do you happen to remember if ehirds likes or dislikes clang?
18:50:06 * AnMaster just used --analyze to it to do static source code analysis...
18:50:13 <AnMaster> and it output a f*cking .plist file
19:03:15 <nooga> not that OS X is bad
19:03:27 <nooga> hint: plists are text ;p
19:04:50 <ais523> AnMaster: I thought he liked it, but I'm not sure
19:04:53 <ais523> why does it matter, anyway
19:05:07 <AnMaster> ais523, just because I'm pretty sure ehird is no XML-lover
19:07:22 <nooga> but you can at least read them without reverse enginieering
19:08:37 <nooga> i just measured that for small C programs llvm generates average 32.73% smaller code than gcc
19:08:41 <AnMaster> #if defined(__GNU_LIBRARY__) ? defined(__USE_GNU) : !defined(__STRICT_ANSI__)
19:08:50 <AnMaster> ais523, it is from an internal system include in clang
19:09:17 * AnMaster wonders if using ?: is cpp is really allowed
19:10:41 <ais523> probably both gcc and clang handle it
19:11:18 <AnMaster> ais523, sure, but it isn't standard right?
19:11:25 <Gregor> Try it with, say, Watcom or pcc
19:11:33 <AnMaster> Gregor, don't have either handy
19:11:46 <AnMaster> and icc tries to be compatible with gcc
19:11:55 <AnMaster> gcc, icc and clang are the ones I have handy
19:12:08 <nooga> i should be downloading icc right now
19:12:13 <Gregor> Those all try too hard to be compatible with gcc.
19:12:25 <nooga> i forgot that i need it dor tomorrow
19:12:48 <AnMaster> Gregor, oh and open64, but that uses GCC for frontend
19:12:55 <AnMaster> so that would be completely pointless
19:13:42 <Gregor> Why is pcc not in Debian >_<
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19:24:14 <AnMaster> /home/arvid/local/llvm/2.6/libexec/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.2.1/cc1: Symbol `__gxx_personality_v0' causes overflow in R_X86_64_PC32 relocation
19:29:26 <pikhq> That's certainly a unique linker error.
19:29:59 <AnMaster> anyway there is an open llvm bug about it
19:31:39 <AnMaster> pikhq, http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=2853
19:31:54 <Gregor> Heh, I can't get squat to build with pcc :P
19:32:32 <AnMaster> Gregor, ah I ran into that when I tried some time ago too
19:32:37 <AnMaster> iirc ehird got it working on OS X
19:32:51 <pikhq> Well, should be feasible to do a port. :P
19:32:55 <Gregor> It's all the GCC-specific stuff in glibc stdio.h that's killing me now.
19:32:59 <Gregor> Anyway, I don't actually care.
19:33:57 <oklokok> Gregor: didn't you have a nose at some point btw?
19:34:07 <oklokok> by this i mean didn't you use ":-P"
19:34:45 <pikhq> I'd imagine that what ehird did was use Newlib.
19:35:02 <oklokok> Gregor: try to remember, as you can imagine, this is very important to me.
19:35:27 <Gregor> I am of course your messiah.
19:36:12 <oklokok> i don't have them on my compüter atm
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20:59:18 <AnMaster> checking whether llvm-gcc is sane... /home/arvid/local/llvm/2.6/libexec/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.2.1/cc1: Symbol `__gxx_personality_v0' causes overflow in R_X86_64_PC32 relocation
21:16:08 <AnMaster> heh, switching to use the system libstdc++ instead worked
21:16:18 <AnMaster> the system one being a newer version
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