< 1258070416 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but with timestamps it's either all of the files or none of them < 1258070432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, um. sure. but you could do that with updating the timestamp file listing as you did the backup < 1258070455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you need two files, still easy < 1258070460 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like updating the last modified date? but then it isn't the date it was last modified anymore < 1258070466 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some people didn't want to change their timestamps when backing up?? (dunno) < 1258070470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, like keeping a list like: < 1258070483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo\bar 118273 < 1258070483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one time in DOS: last modified < 1258070487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo\quux 11231 < 1258070489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1258070505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last access and creation are supported in FAT32 (but not by FreeDOS for speed reasons) < 1258070514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when backing up check the last modification time, see if it is newer than what is your list of files < 1258070517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is, back it up < 1258070520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise skip it < 1258070524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1258070525 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more complicated than a simple bit on each file < 1258070533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, that's true < 1258070542 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, my only regret is that we're stuck with Bash 2.05b, which doesn't support BashFunge :-( < 1258070558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, bashfunge? why does that sound familiar < 1258070561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not THAT hard to port 3.0, though I'm probably not too handy in that area) < 1258070567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is seeing zombies and spooks right now
< 1258070568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? heh, uh ... < 1258070582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, bashfunge was really broken. And I won't fix it. < 1258070587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, dead project < 1258070591 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering I've only know about Befunge for less than 3 months, it can't have been that long ;-) < 1258070591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work out well < 1258070602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sniff* and it was such a good idea :-/ < 1258070622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(worked in Cygwin although I didn't test that hard) < 1258070629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sure. But well the unlimited size turned out to be a pain < 1258070639 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlimited? oh, B98 again? < 1258070646 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God forbid you do a B93-only version ;-) < 1258070648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some of the 98-stuff is missimplemented < 1258070662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah. I'm not about to touch that code < 1258070670 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy ;-) < 1258070673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, if I did, I would go bash 4 < 1258070678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he called three people lazy today (in jest), heh
< 1258070682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some really useful stuff there < 1258070692 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, might as well go Perl or Python or Ruby or ... < 1258070703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flavor of month) < 1258070703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no. zsh would be one step in between < 1258070727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash3, bash4, perl/python/ruby < 1258070733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't correct < 1258070737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash3, bash4, zsh, perl/python/ruby < 1258070739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is correct < 1258070779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, isn't everyone else on bash4 nowdays? < 1258070791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258070794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen many Linux distros still using 3.2 < 1258070798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Cygwin still uses 3.2 < 1258070812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well sure. I have a few around here. Arch, Ubuntu, Gentoo < 1258070817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be 4.x all of them < 1258070835 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu? if you say so, it wasn't last I checked (but haven't gotten 9.10 yet) < 1258070844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo upgraded only somewhat recently, but yeah, it's 4.0 here. < 1258070861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't check *bsd atm. Probably okay on freebsd. No clue about open or net < 1258070885 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those obviously don't use Bash by default < 1258070893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well yes < 1258070902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mac OS X is probably very outdated < 1258070915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but I don't have a Mac < 1258070920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1258070924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only classic one < 1258070928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Dad's five-year-old Panther (10.3.9) still had 2.05b also < 1258070944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oldest one I ever used was tiger < 1258070949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what it had < 1258070962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I saw someone using twm and tcsh today < 1258070969 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 2.03 or such < 1258070977 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258070977 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258070979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a teacher at university, starting a projector to demonstrate stuff < 1258070981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that was tcsh, who knows < 1258070993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran ubuntu, with console login, then starting X manually < 1258070999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had something called "ctwm" < 1258071012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it was definitely csh, think it was tcsh even < 1258071027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm too < 1258071040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that old black/white checker bg < 1258071050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1258071136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not the foggiest idea why he used ubuntu as the base for that. After all that sounds like a pain compared to using arch that way. < 1258071155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1258071165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1258071186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure ick input works correctly ... or else isn't doing it correctly
< 1258071205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My god. < 1258071221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Eeeeew. < 1258071323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see ... "ONE OH THREE" is Intercal input < 1258071949 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258072050 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258072068 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-132-190.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258072070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1258072072 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258074502 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258075400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258076587 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258078766 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258078914 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have any ideas about debugging dynamic recompilers? < 1258079871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cry. < 1258079873 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cry a lot. < 1258080139 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work :P < 1258080170 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's cathartic. < 1258080369 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In medicine, a cathartic is a substance which accelerates defecation." <-- wtf? < 1258080399 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, catheters can be quite cathartic. < 1258080550 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it must be really bad code if it makes desmume crahs < 1258080553 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crash < 1258080561 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ds emulator, which is what my recompiler is running on) < 1258080668 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it runs the recompiler until a jump instruction, then runs the interpreter until the same instruction, etc... until something doesn't match or isn't implemented < 1258080678 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but comparing all of memory takes ages < 1258080684 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each jump instruction < 1258082011 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258082015 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258083537 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258083587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any esoteric languages based on Conway's Game of Life? < 1258083772 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes http://esolangs.org/wiki/Golang < 1258083788 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, now i can't delete that < 1258083789 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1258083804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1258084021 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REDGREEN is a superset of the game of life: http://catseye.tc/projects/redgreen/eg/life.red < 1258084064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's pretty neat < 1258084112 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258084454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258084480 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258085291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258085311 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258085354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. DVD-ROM disks that are claimed to last 1ka. Even if they last in readable shape for half that (500a), one probably isn't going to get any sane data off them... < 1258085688 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258086164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a? < 1258086178 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an a? < 1258086826 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258087143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258087669 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1258088215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258090555 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258091520 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-85.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258091947 0 :bsmntbombdood__!n=gavin@97-118-113-76.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258091955 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn my connection sucks < 1258091961 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone here my nipple story? < 1258092384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1258092387 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1258093479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not "happened once before"; by my count this was at least the fourth occurrence. I probably should save those ?-generated random numbers somewhere so that I could reproduce it. (Or just run the text-generation code again and again until it crashes; can't take that long.) < 1258096257 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258096261 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258096549 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258099199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258099200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258099476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258099740 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258100020 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-132-190.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258100312 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258100440 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-123-160.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258101049 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258103286 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258103380 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-26.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258105816 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258106000 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-95.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107333 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258107530 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-95.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258107558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mhm < 1258108634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc < 1258108662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. < 1258109011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great.... zooming a pdf to 150% in evince and in okular gives completely different results < 1258109034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in evince the text is then about twice as big as in okular < 1258109931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always assumed that the "100 %" there is supposed to take into account the screen DPI and show it at "natural size"; come to think of it, I wonder if that's true. < 1258110061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an A4 .pdf, evince's "100 %" seems to be pretty close to natural A4 size, though the width is about 7 mm off; xpdf's "100 %" is utterly too small. < 1258110106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Adobe Reader's "100 %" is something like 3 cm too wide. < 1258110154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's because Reader's configuration is not "Use system setting: 97 pixels/inch" but instead "Custom resolution: 110 pixels/inch". Don't know where that came from. < 1258110172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defaults to a custom resolution. < 1258110174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know why. < 1258110180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange. < 1258110284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the system default 97 ppi, it's the same width that Evince does. (The "correct" value -- leading to the right width -- would seem to be somewhere between 99 and 100.) < 1258110449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's really strange is the xrandr output: TMDS-1 connected 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 367mm x 275mm < 1258110472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1600 points in 367mm would give exactly that 110 ppi. But it's very much incorrect. < 1258110492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258110551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm what about okular then? < 1258110570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found no custom resolution setting in okular < 1258110587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in evince < 1258110645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okular's "100 %" seems to mostly match the xpdf one; I guess they were related, anyway? < 1258111095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably < 1258111425 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258111613 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-135-209.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258114223 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258114265 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258114689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok I got a simple hello world to build as a classic PPC app under MPW now < 1258114696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make it work as 68k nor as FAT < 1258114710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should be ready to take on ick if I pre-generate most files < 1258117407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah it seems including the type "long long" makes the 68k compiler crash < 1258119849 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258119877 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-247.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258120577 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258120618 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258124013 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-134-86.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258124026 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258124029 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258124176 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258124178 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258126649 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1258126881 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-117-28.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258128663 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129253 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129657 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258129761 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"brb" < 1258130067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some progress with ick on mac < 1258130072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however some questions < 1258130080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SIZEOF__BOOL thing in config.h < 1258130085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if there is no _Bool < 1258130090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set it to 0 < 1258130093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to the null string < 1258130102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the code accepts either as meaning no _Bool < 1258130104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what is the difference between bconfig.h and config.h? < 1258130112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing unless you're cross-compiling < 1258130117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I got bin2c to build. but I can't redirect IO do it < 1258130119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to* < 1258130127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor give it command line arguments < 1258130136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are cross-compiling, then bconfig is for the system you build on, whereas config is for the system you're targeting < 1258130161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the output of bin2c doesn't depend on anything but the input files, so feel free to use a prebuilt version of the resulting .c files < 1258130178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same goes for oil btw I think < 1258130188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same fix will work < 1258130190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for ick I have to figure out some way around it < 1258130195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command line bit I mean < 1258130196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you can't redirect, though? < 1258130202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a wrapper that uses system and freopen, if you like < 1258130205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that to do the redirection < 1258130215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no shell to do it in. As for system(), no clue what it does < 1258130236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the Wikipedia article you linked, the shell-equivalent is pretty good at redirection... < 1258130271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it works for special MPW tools only. Which are not normal applications < 1258130282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and there are two ways to go: MPW (free download) or CodeWarrior (far from). The latter supports emulating some aspects of a terminal for your app. STDIO < 1258130290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia said it worked for everything, by hooking syscalls < 1258130327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hum. didn't work for me < 1258130370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, will check if I can get bin2c to build under MPW. with codewarrior I got that bit to build. < 1258130372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1258130893 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258131127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what creator code should ick, bin2c and so on have? < 1258131132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codes* < 1258131141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 4 printable bytes. < 1258131147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure really < 1258131180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly 4 printable bytes. With printable bytes I mean not just alphanumeric, but also symbols. I have seen SIT! for example. And "MPS " < 1258131191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is MPW in fact < 1258131193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them all NUL characters < 1258131200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, printable... < 1258131203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1258131264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and "long long" isn't supported by the 68k compiler < 1258131267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is by the PPC one < 1258131282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, strdup is missing. So is snprintf < 1258131288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: config.h should catch those < 1258131297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be #ifdef-guarded < 1258131302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. But it wants size of long long somewhere in there < 1258131319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I haven't got IO to work at all for 68k apps < 1258131326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, freopen to a file doesn't work < 1258131333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works for PPC apps < 1258131345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is how I found out size of the types for it) < 1258131347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258131382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "doesn't work" here means "compiles and runs fine, but no resulting file" < 1258131397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very strange < 1258131428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, what is the file list for ick, avoiding any *.a (I haven't figured out how they work yet) < 1258131454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, the sources or the binaries? < 1258131497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, list of all *.o that ends up in it < 1258131499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would work fine < 1258131516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have tried figuring out from the Makefile.am but that was quite messy < 1258131568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the contents of ick_SOURCES, nodist_ick_SOURCES, and ick_LDADD < 1258131573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at bin2c.c.ppc.o
< 1258131576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice filename < 1258131611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the oil stuff. MPW makefile must do all the work in advance as you knopw < 1258131612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so src/feh2.c src/dekludge.c src/ick_lose.c src/fiddle.c src/perpet.c src/uncommon.c parser.y lexer.l idiotism.oil are the sources < 1258131614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know* < 1258131645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.o dekludge.o ick_lose.o fiddle.o perpet.o uncommon.o parser.o lexer.o libidiot.a are the object files < 1258131663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the files generated by oil don't exist until oil runs < 1258131668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the make here outputs a script. So it must be able to figure out exactly which files would be generated by oil < 1258131679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the input, though, as to how many there are < 1258131685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.y and *.l won't work < 1258131700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see the prebuilt/ directory < 1258131701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well sure. But you surely see the issue here? I can't work around it in any sane way < 1258131703 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258131704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that one already < 1258131707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know about that < 1258131717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work around it in an insane way, then < 1258131722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say by invoking the make recursively < 1258131730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once to figure out how many files are needed, once to actually do the building < 1258131798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I can't figure out a make rule for files in a subdirectory < 1258131809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not a generic one < 1258131851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that using the make version there at all is the right thing to do, if it's that limited? < 1258131857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any shellscript-equivalent? < 1258131916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, the make one is better than a plain script, becuase compiling and linking is complex. So I don't want to have to write out lots of full command lines. Unless you can tell me how to do functions in the MPW shell. < 1258131922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least variables. < 1258131963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the MPW shell works at all < 1258131966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw to add to the confusion. *.a is usually asm here < 1258131986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no actual need to library up libidiot.a < 1258131997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that make understands one library better than an unknown number of object files < 1258132036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are some sort of libraries. I have yet to figure out how to create those < 1258132662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about redirection < 1258132667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a very strange error < 1258132676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unable to create finder parameter list for this application" < 1258132698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait < 1258132704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is due to the command line argument it wants < 1258132708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not due to redirection < 1258133126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I figured it out. For normal applications, all arguments on command line must be valid existing files < 1258133131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sure is a showblocker < 1258133136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's weird < 1258133155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any way to work around it in ick and such? < 1258133182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to get its command line arguments some other way < 1258133190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, standard input? < 1258133202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258133216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also even after creating the relevant file, it didn't work. Not sure why yet. < 1258133228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs now, but gives an error message < 1258133237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the normal one for no arguments) < 1258133290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about converting it to an MPW tool? < 1258133306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at an example MPW tool to figure out how messy that would be
< 1258133329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay answer to that is "quite a bit" < 1258133380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1258133471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes a special resource script < 1258133541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if this is to go upstream I will need a special subdirectory for mac specific files < 1258133548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any recommended directory name? < 1258133553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macos9 < 1258133554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also where is the current darcs repo < 1258133559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using 0.29 here < 1258133564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I actually can't rememebr < 1258133569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1258133569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were hosting it < 1258133584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I told you ages ago, that server went down. < 1258133594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been middle of summer or so. < 1258133609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you said iirc you would move it. < 1258133641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258133645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's nowhere atm then < 1258133907 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258134063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interestingly enough the MPW shell and MPW make makes use of some non-ASCII letters < 1258134073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "greater than or equal to" for redirecting stderr < 1258134096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some weird symbol I can't type on my pc for what \ would do in a normal makefile < 1258134272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh this is funny. < 1258134279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:foo < 1258134283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means foo on Volume < 1258134287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:foo:bar < 1258134293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means bar in folder foo on Volume < 1258134298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now the funny part: < 1258134300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::foo < 1258134304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means foo in current directory < 1258134311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258134315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revese of UNIX-style < 1258134336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. lucky thing I didn't have a volume called baudot.c < 1258134357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I wonder what that thing actually did, since it didn't give an error either < 1258134457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I managed to lock up MPW by bin2c, when it didn't quit but read on stdin. heh < 1258134477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258134498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the tool thing is similar to a dynamically loaded module < 1258134523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay bin2c foo < :src:baudot.bin > :baudot.c < 1258134525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1258134533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minus the "okay" first of course) < 1258134568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however, it seems all source files must be in the same directory, no subdirs allowed. Or I just can't figure it out < 1258134592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write a script to move them all into the same dir, then < 1258134610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for implicit targets at least. Not sure about explicit argets < 1258134612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :targets* < 1258134684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and you know that old style s thingy? < 1258134688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks somewhat like an f < 1258134698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of: all: foo bar < 1258134700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses < 1258134705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all foo bar < 1258134709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the make file < 1258134724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1258134727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes it uses two of them instead < 1258134729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why < 1258134848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, let me take a screenshot... a few seconds < 1258134999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look at http://omploader.org/vMnJoag < 1258135018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cursor there is from linux < 1258135040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is odd, maybe due to screenshot app. Since it doesn't look like that to me < 1258135041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1258135069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? the cursor or the makefile? < 1258135077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile < 1258135099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the window behind is that worksheet < 1258135112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think a cross between a shell and emacs *scratch* buffer < 1258135116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you got it almost right < 1258135212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, ick building the result itself won't work. You will have to print some lines for the user to run in the MPW shell < 1258135212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet < 1258135222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it might be best to make ick too into an MPW tool < 1258135224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch < 1258135238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1258135266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yeah mpw tools can't run other ones. which is why make prints the commands for you to run < 1258135271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why oil will cause a headache < 1258135324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I have no idea about the separate src dir for prebuilt or generated stuff < 1258135358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw the way to make things find the source dir is to add a line like: {ObjDir} {SrcDir} < 1258135360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the top < 1258135370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have several it seems < 1258135397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably worth experimenting with that to figure out if you can have more than one src dir < 1258135408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjDir and SrcDir must of course be defined < 1258136015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw do you know how classic mac os did memory management? It is rather horrible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_memory_management < 1258136164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aha found how to do multiple directories. You just list them all after that old style s < 1258137208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what to call the folder where generated files are placed during the build? < 1258137218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't use the object dir < 1258137221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff like generated *.c < 1258137227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that makes mpw make crash < 1258137237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to use an out-of-tree build anyway < 1258137240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try macos9/build < 1258137244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, macos9:build < 1258137270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and object files? < 1258137284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me has no clue how to go upwards like ".." under *nix and windows < 1258137285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258137292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use :buildobj and :buildc if you need separate dirs < 1258137306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :buildc: you mean < 1258137311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1258137312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a : at the end if it is a directory < 1258137319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it complains < 1258137602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah found out some more details from reading python's macpath.py < 1258137609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : On the Mac, relative paths begin with a colon, < 1258137609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but as a special case, paths with no colons at all are also relative. < 1258137616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else is absolute < 1258137632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and :: means "parent dir" it seems < 1258137637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that should solve some issues < 1258137653 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258138365 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258138466 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258138534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a trackball! < 1258138572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, works nicely? < 1258138585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1258138594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to increase the sensitivity, I think, but I'll leave it for now. < 1258138605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vintage Logitech TrackMan Marble, circa like 1995. Excellent condition. < 1258138612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2→USB adapter. < 1258138631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I hope the pun in the topic isn't disparaging Go. That's Ken Thompson's project, you know. < 1258138640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and it looks great, with some warts < 1258138657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc Gregor said it was horrible yesterday < 1258138673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he's an idiot. It has a good subset of the old Unix team working on it. < 1258138676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, etc. < 1258138688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its design is mostly clean and elegant. < 1258138771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:52:16 BTW, have you heard of "Go" yet? < 1258138771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:52:20 (since you like D) < 1258138774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Go is completely unlike D. < 1258138792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1258138820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:04:14 Since people were talking about Google Go the other day, here is my brief opinion from poking arounda t it a bit: Probably the worst language design in at least a decade. Easily the worst toolchain design in the entire history of toolchains. If I never touch this language again, it will be too soon. < 1258138820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA, you fail < 1258138842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the compiler structure is totally unlike any existing compiler. That's why it's much faster and cleaner — it's the same design as the Plan 9 C compilers. < 1258138849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, not unlike any existing compiler, but meh.) < 1258138883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:05:23 Rugxulo: In terms of "real" languages. It's completely horrible. < 1258138883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are completely off your rocker. Worst language in a decade? Are you absolutely serious? < 1258138933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:32 Rugxulo: Its type system is insane, its toolchain is horrible, its method of "encapsulation" is capitalization, it has no consistent interoperability story, lesse... < 1258138933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its type system is very usual with some exceptions, and some nice things. Its toolchain is VERY VERY VERY fast and simple. Its SYNTAX for encapsulation is capitalisation. < 1258138955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:59 Rugxulo: THE BINARIES ARE NAMED PER FUCKING ARCHITECTURE < 1258138956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:05 6g? 8g? WTF?! < 1258138956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that cross-compiling is the same as regular compiling, an ADVANTAGE. < 1258138976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:26 Fast is not a pro unless we're compiling in 1965. < 1258138976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles the 100k line go code in seconds < 1258138986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IS a pro. < 1258139002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:09:01 It has fork-join-ish concurrency, which makes it "good" in a "hey if we restrict you to a ridiculous degree you won't make mistakes" sense. < 1258139002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has coroutines. < 1258139004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of a sort. < 1258139024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:53 --- topic: set to 'Go is a no-go | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D' by GregorR < 1258139024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did ken thompson rape you or something < 1258139192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha this trackball poops if i spin the wheel really fast < 1258139200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck it, I'm not tracking that" < 1258139465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:26 ais523, I figured it out. For normal applications, all arguments on command line must be valid existing files < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:31 ais523, that sure is a showblocker < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:36 wow, that's weird < 1258139466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:25:55 ais523, any way to work around it in ick and such? < 1258139467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:26:22 it'd have to get its command line arguments some other way < 1258139467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just create the files beforehand, duh < 1258139469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, etc. < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And its design is mostly clean and elegant. < 1258140173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clean and elegant?!?!? < 1258140177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactically clean maybe, semantically nonsense. < 1258140187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Gregor and I will be outraged and call it the puke's dog because it is not what I am used to! I am not required to provide arguments, only RAGE! < 1258140195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEAR ME ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR < 1258140206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I provided a bunch of arguments when I was arguing against it yesterday. < 1258140213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't, actually. < 1258140216 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258140218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just called various aspects of it stupid. < 1258140232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Their half-assed structural subtyping is no replacement for inheritance. Inheritance is useless. < 1258140239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1258140248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance isn't useless rather X-D < 1258140257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance is bad, and before you argue against that plz google some bit, especially c2 wiki. < 1258140277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't half-assed, it's minimalist. It looks stupid because minimalism does look stupid. < 1258140281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix looked stupid. < 1258140295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being no replacement is your opinion; clearly they are having no issues. < 1258140331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants some real description and criticism of Go, http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/11/googles_new_language_go.php and http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/11/the_go_i_forgot_concurrency_an.php are good reads. < 1258140357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not worth my time arguing this, particularly not on #esoteric or with you, so I'm not going to. < 1258140386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your arguments continue to stun. Hey, if I'd said that to AnMaster a wild pack of bears would be mauling me round about now. < 1258140391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny that < 1258140425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you had the chance to give us your interesting arguments: "It's horrible" "It sucks" "That compiler naming thing is stupid" "The toolchain sucks". < 1258140433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ponder them. < 1258140813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=4a3f6bbb5f0c6021279ccb3c23558b3c480d995f is such an epic event in the history of computing that anything it's part of cannot possibly be wrong. < 1258140962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258141000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To idiots who don't get it: It's a change by Ken Thompson. [[Ken Thompson was once asked what he would do differently if he were redesigning the UNIX system. His reply: "I'd spell creat with an e."]]) < 1258141049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ads.stackoverflow.com/ads/MostWanted_728x90_Static.png ;; by whom?! < 1258141064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some of those files would be illegal file names. Oh and there are some other issues with it too < 1258141077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmph < 1258141179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to emulate the scroll wheel in os x
< 1258141201 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258141227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: think I'll pwn at Enigma with this trackball? :P < 1258141238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258141251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recently switched to Chrome
< 1258141254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a level that requires precision < 1258141257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a good browser < 1258141260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better than firefox < 1258141276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like it better if, when switching to a tab, the tab wasn't momentarily blank < 1258141280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I found an issue discussing it < 1258141283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't < 1258141287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll look into that < 1258141287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix your computer < 1258141299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not an implicit rule for those bin2c generated files? < 1258141313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=020198aa328835c0&hl=en < 1258141317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I like being explicit < 1258141326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it easier to track everything that's going on < 1258141328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, code repetition < 1258141333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eh, wfm :P < 1258141347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1258141353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for... < 1258141356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1258141369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries the memory-model=high thing
< 1258141371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay need to reboot for this scrolling thing bye < 1258141377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1258141388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1258141396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just added it, and Chrome seems faster in general < 1258141633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does oil only depend on the generated file oil-oil.c? < 1258141649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258141683 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258141683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw / is valid in directory names on classic mac os < 1258141687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and file names < 1258141701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As on OS X, though not :. < 1258141711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is just turned into : for the BSD subsystem. < 1258141717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well : isn't here of course < 1258141726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: isn't allowed because it'd become /. < 1258141732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather < 1258141736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because old volume-style things are still supported < 1258141738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTunes uses them < 1258141738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / is just turned into : for the BSD subsystem. <-- seems backwards < 1258141739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1258141747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's so you can name things with / in them < 1258141754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Foo and/or bar" < 1258141762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's talk < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1258141767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1258141768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1258141768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can < 1258141769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1258141769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1258141771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll < 1258141778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful. < 1258141782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1258141789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is annoying. < 1258141793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try Enigma. < 1258141825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A level that requires precision plz < 1258141896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1258141938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI/#15 < 1258142001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or V/#95 I suppose, that one's rather infamous < 1258142008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does require loads of precision and hardly any thought otherwise < 1258142014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this trackball is too good to make me better at Enigma... picking up all my little tremors and the like. < 1258142015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258142065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 requires speed < 1258142066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get over ramps < 1258142103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the hardest dexterity levels I know < 1258142141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil fails to build < 1258142146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the error? < 1258142171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get "Error: illegal combination of types" in the MPW header SizeTDef,h < 1258142176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a good deal for £20.07 shipped < 1258142184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ,h < 1258142187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now in love with Chrome
< 1258142189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258142190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.h < 1258142191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they make it use mac os filetypes? :( < 1258142193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh < 1258142196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: good < 1258142198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't copy and paste from sheepshaver < 1258142202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, you like a good thing < 1258142203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully, this won't cause issues with other programs, though < 1258142214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: old mac os had no file extensions, so i thought they were emulated with , < 1258142217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're being emulated with . < 1258142223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real filetypes would be more fun < 1258142247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah no. The creator is 'MPS ' (without the quotes, with the space) and the file type is 'TEXT' (again without the quotes) < 1258142266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creator 'MPS ', file type 'CHED' < 1258142271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code being 'CSRC' < 1258142275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can actually close other tabs without watching the browser freeze1 < 1258142279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great < 1258142281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CHDR is also ok for headers, whatever) < 1258142284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor doesn't display line numbers < 1258142285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258142287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258142289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does mine < 1258142295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it does at the bottom < 1258142303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this one doesn't < 1258142311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can hold down ctrl+t for 10 seconds with chrome without it lagging much < 1258142312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1258142313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins counting the 16 lines from the top the error was on
< 1258142324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1258142325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was: < 1258142330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and then look at the most suspicious line < 1258142332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int size_t; < 1258142334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it didn't like < 1258142335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun how cpp fucks up everything innit. < 1258142337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth < 1258142347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change it to < 1258142351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned size_t; < 1258142353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I know why < 1258142354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it'll work < 1258142357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was due to config.h < 1258142402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define to `unsigned int' if does not define. */ < 1258142403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* #undef size_t */ < 1258142405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258142411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no sys/types.h < 1258142413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I did define it < 1258142420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it does exist in stdlib.h and such < 1258142422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258142429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just #include < 1258142459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you make it check in stddef.h instead? That is the standard place for size_t < 1258142469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys/types.h is POSIX specific < 1258142474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you want this trackball? it's absolutely wonderful, and with a shallow learning curve, it's just that i think my hands are too small :P < 1258142481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX specific? Hope you use it in cfunge! < 1258142482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: send a bug report to the autoconf people, then < 1258142486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you pay for postage? < 1258142490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll make that change sometime later if I remember < 1258142493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... yes? < 1258142503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the catch < 1258142512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I thought you meant < 1258142516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the UK people pay for postage < 1258142516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258142519 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258142529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not paying postage :-P < 1258142533 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about writing operating systems? What is the code for loading data from the boot disk into RAM? < 1258142550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slv %r, ($pla) < 1258142552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttr < 1258142603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which programs depends on config.h and which on bconfig.h? < 1258142632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff that's only used during the build depends on bconfig.h < 1258142634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as oil and bin2c < 1258142638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a page on the wiki called [[Sammich]] but it seems it so far is only a example program, do you think anything should be done with that? < 1258142643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else depends on config.h < 1258142658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. So only oil and bin2c? You used "such that" < 1258142663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hopefully the author would come back later < 1258142669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: those are the only two I can think of right now < 1258142681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, claiming that size_t existed in sys/types.h worked. oil compiled < 1258142693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK. < 1258142697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's ergonomic (fits your whole hand!) and has a 3D scrollball! All you have to do is configure your computer to do it. And the clever thing is that the trackball IS the scrollball! No moving your hand! Um, okay, so technically it's just making your system emulate a scroll wheel with the trackball; shut up. < 1258142699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION test runs oil with no arguments on nix to see what happens
< 1258142726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, does not give an error. No good then < 1258142731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that will lock up MPW < 1258142732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to give it an input file, IIRC < 1258142741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have not yet figured out how to send EOF < 1258142765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for left hand? < 1258142777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right hand. < 1258142790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh. I'm using left atm for my mouse. < 1258142791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say you use a mouse in both, so quit whining. :P < 1258142804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed I do < 1258142810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it's vintage! Circa 1995! < 1258142814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the oooooooooooooold Logitech logo. < 1258142842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that old one; the one before that. < 1258142859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already started writing a operating system, I might call it 4RM, or maybe it should be called CHAOS instead (for "CHAOS Has An Operating System") < 1258142864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goodlogo.com/images/logos/small/logitech_logo_2485.gif < 1258142866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one. < 1258142884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, um, has screws in it for easy user-servicability? < 1258142889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an easy way to pop out the trackball! < 1258142895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a quite-long PS/2 cord! < 1258143003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where does oil put the files? Current directory won't work. And changing current directory seems to confuse stuff < 1258143013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thumb sure is getting good exercise. < 1258143017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's current directory < 1258143029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It, um, has screws in it for easy user-servicability? <-- very nice < 1258143031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, meh < 1258143043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's refreshingly non-user-hostile. < 1258143063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was expensive as new? < 1258143066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could modify the code so that a particular #definition in bconfig.h put them somewhere else < 1258143073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope < 1258143080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what the hell... < 1258143082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty average price for a niche mouse, I imagine. < 1258143087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say £25? < 1258143090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. < 1258143091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably less, even. < 1258143091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258143098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1258143099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer stuff was cheap in 1995. < 1258143153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically new, anyway; it came from some sort of warehouse and the only imperfections are a slight crack in the plastic around some hole that I don't know what it is (barely noticeable) and some sticky stuff on a small part of the end of the PS/2 cord. < 1258143168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it might need some lubrication to work perfectly, not sure. < 1258143228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has dots on the wheel???? I CANNOT SELL THIS ANY MORE < 1258143237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No no wait! Convenient indentations on the three buttons help finger placement. < 1258143338 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258143366 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-79-2.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258143399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dots? < 1258143418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't like that trackball? < 1258143419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little black spots on the red ball in an intriguing pattern. It's so that the optomechanical (I think) magic can work. < 1258143432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it! I just need to grow my hand to use it properly, I think :P < 1258143442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just wait a few years then? < 1258143452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely it will work perfectly in a few years then < 1258143465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, that would work. < 1258143465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the (Microsoft, and therefore Logitech) trackball I have at home has a red ball whose undersurface is made out of little rings of red < 1258143472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Funky. < 1258143474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has a plastic covering on top of that, though) < 1258143475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1258143480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft, and thterefore Logitech? < 1258143482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*therefore < 1258143492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What crack-smoking planet are you on? xD < 1258143497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Microsoft-branded mice and trackballs are made by Logitech, IIRC < 1258143499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they used to be < 1258143502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really/ < 1258143505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really? < 1258143506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just they have the Microsoft logo on < 1258143509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "used to" < 1258143510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be why they're good. < 1258143535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my first MS mice had the logitech logo on the bottom of it. in small print. My current one doesn't < 1258143535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia (LOGO) Forever < 1258143537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck off, Wikipedia. < 1258143538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for all I know they still are < 1258143545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Offffffffffffff < 1258143556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1258143567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Wikipedia pages. < 1258143584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someone found out when they opened up a mouse and there was a logitech logo on the circuit board < 1258143589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what type of trackball is it? thumb? < 1258143592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is on a more recent mouse that didn't have the logitech logo anywhere visible) < 1258143594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258143594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fingertips? < 1258143599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb trackball < 1258143601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right or left? < 1258143604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1258143605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a right hand < 1258143615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because everyone in my family's right-handed) < 1258143621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour? (basically equivalent to age) < 1258143626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grey < 1258143633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light or dark < 1258143635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark < 1258143640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent then < 1258143644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000s < 1258143648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sounds about right < 1258143650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or slightly before, maybe 1998 at earlier < 1258143652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*earliest < 1258143680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil sure takes a long time, or is locked up. < 1258143683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's new enough that the computer that was bought at the same time has an Intel integrated 3D graphics card < 1258143696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it shouldn't take /that/ long < 1258143696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, then it'll be the latest model, probably < 1258143699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it certainly doesn't ever leave yeild the cpu. < 1258143702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody makes *new* trackballs any more < 1258143704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard to find out < 1258143711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bison/yacc-generated compiler < 1258143722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mouse can be moved, the spinning waiting thing is frozen though < 1258143737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 40 seconds so far < 1258143746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you help me get c-intercal working on macintosh system 6? < 1258143747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something wrong? < 1258143763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it shouldn't be doing that < 1258143773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I've been helping AnMaster do it for mac os 9 < 1258143794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. System 6 is far better, and very different. < 1258143797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have it part working. bin2c works perfectly. < 1258143806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macintosh System 6 is not Mac OS 9. < 1258143813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take your uncouth modernity elsewhere, heathen. < 1258143813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I build stuff as MPW tools. Should be portable to 68k < 1258143830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW is available for System 6, I think. < 1258143832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh except that long long isn't supported, and I have no clue about the type sizes < 1258143833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously. < 1258143838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is different. < 1258143845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads PDP-11 emulator
< 1258143853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xkcdb.com/?6753 < 1258143855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well sure. < 1258143861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 6 is from such an era that it can only address 8 MiB of RAM. < 1258143869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is oilout00.c. It is empty < 1258143876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems dubious < 1258143880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you accept both \r and \n or only \n? < 1258143881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its standard UI is entirely black and white. < 1258143884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's almost certainly gone wrong < 1258143892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Sys6screenshotbusy.png ;; Anything like Mac OS 9? Didn't think so < 1258143899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think the C compiler does some sort of \r \n swapping for IO by default < 1258143905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rules for line endings with OIL are that \n is always accepted, \r\n may leave stray \r in the output but is otherwise accepted < 1258143910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somewhat like windows does \n <-> \r\n < 1258143918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: classic macintosh is just \r < 1258143925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, and I read files in binary mode < 1258143928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could explain al ot < 1258143929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but MrC swaps \r and \n < 1258143930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a lot < 1258143934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mister C! < 1258143936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even for binary-mode files? < 1258143937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no such thing iirc? < 1258143955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fopen("filename","rb") < 1258143955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I thought that too. But it actually means Macintosh RISC C compiler < 1258143967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC is such a lovely name. < 1258143968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISK < 1258143970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like... < 1258143971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daring. < 1258143979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm unable to locate docs atm. So I don't know if b affects anything < 1258143982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This architecture? Exciting. MACINTOSH RISK C COMPILER < 1258143990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is it causes the program to read \r as \r < 1258143999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that doesn't work? < 1258144002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll therefore want to change the newlines to \n in the original idiotism.oil source code < 1258144007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're as \r atm < 1258144020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or modify oil.y to be able to handle classic Mac newliens < 1258144021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*newlines < 1258144022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they should be \n due to having just copied the file < 1258144029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258144036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try changing the newlines to some other format to see what happens < 1258144063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me open it in BBEdit < 1258144076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit started on System Software 6! < 1258144079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIX POWER! < 1258144080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit lite claims it is unix line endings < 1258144087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you happen to have the non-lite version? < 1258144098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258144101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe for System 6. :P < 1258144101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1258144111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have bbedit lite 4.6 < 1258144120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I have been able to find and extract < 1258144123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the google < 1258144129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a later lite version but the download was corrupt < 1258144132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did... < 1258144140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay :P < 1258144174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you have better luck however < 1258144269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, debugging is near impossible on this. Since I have to restart the system when it locks up. Can't get the key combo for macsbug to work < 1258144278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was cmd-alt-power button iirc < 1258144286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I have no way of pressing < 1258144311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you do, just press keys until it happens < 1258144346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't. I checked in the key mapping file for sheepshaver. There is no such mapping < 1258144353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUN < 1258144524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you think you'll get C-INTERCAL running on an emulated Mac OS 6 before or after I get it running on an emulated PDP-11? < 1258144538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after, I'm terminally lazy < 1258144554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the ball seems to have lubricated itself. Maybe my skin oils helped. < 1258144873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how to make oil print some sort of trace info? < 1258144884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like processed lines or such < 1258144891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by telling Bison to and regenerating the file < 1258144893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is generated code... < 1258144902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i wish this scrollwheel emulator didn't move the pointer < 1258144902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you tell bison that hm < 1258144911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't stop when the pointer reaches a screen edge < 1258145472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of a silly scrollweheel emulator < 1258145486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to emulate the click-and-drag hand tool in e.g. pdf readers < 1258145503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i inversed the axes so it's basically a hold-middle-button-for-scrollbar thiingy < 1258145504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thingy < 1258145508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for, you know, those two flaws < 1258145599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm becoming better at using this trackball, I think. < 1258145687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird having full mouse movement when clicking. < 1258145707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does PDP-11 UNIX v5 use "chdir" not "cd"? < 1258145713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chdir() < 1258145731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does convickt use those bin2c generated files? < 1258145742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, it uses the originals < 1258145747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generated files are linked into the standard library < 1258145748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? How? < 1258145754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld < 1258145756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1258145757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by fopening them and looking at the contents < 1258145760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you think? < 1258145766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/5PUVF.jpg < 1258145767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the generated files are .c files < 1258145774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're compiled then linked in the normal manner < 1258145777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why does it do it that way rather than use those generated c files? < 1258145787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-containedness < 1258145803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, convickt looks at the .bin files (so you can add more) < 1258145815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could add more anyway but ok < 1258145819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas libick.a contains a compiled version so the resulting programs are self-contained < 1258145825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on the fly though) < 1258145831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it needed in libick.a? < 1258145839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O, I gueess < 1258145841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1258145843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so that it's possible for generated programs to do I/O < 1258145877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but isn't that all in ASCII? < 1258145895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258145906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how am I going to shut this ancient UNIX down? < 1258145911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to have any of the usual methods < 1258145911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kill init < 1258145916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was just about to try htat < 1258145917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use init 1 < 1258145919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258145921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init 0, maybe < 1258145930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is your emulation environment set up? < 1258145935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very much intrigued < 1258145938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I killed init, and it's still running < 1258145943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the simulation < 1258145943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, PDP-11? You didn't try ick on it before? < 1258145946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas init itself is dead < 1258145947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I didn't < 1258145948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: done init 1 already? < 1258145951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which clearly needs correcting < 1258145954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, heh < 1258145957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use the shell? < 1258145957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not entirely sure where init is < 1258145961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, sh still works < 1258145967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find / -name init < 1258145970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there no find? < 1258145970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 1 < 1258145979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-name: not found < 1258145997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: not found < 1258145998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... < 1258146011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find init < 1258146020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find / < 1258146027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, is this gui or command line thing? < 1258146027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I just control-Ded my login shell < 1258146030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to have frozen < 1258146033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's command-line < 1258146034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit me up with ssh and i'll try and get it to shutdown < 1258146044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((((also play around with it)))) < 1258146079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I killed the emulator with SIGTERM, that seems to have worked < 1258146090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I'll do it properly! :( < 1258146134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, issue. You depend on unistd.h in convickt. You do not use the config.h check for it < 1258146142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well caught < 1258146147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much do i have to pay you :| < 1258146147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on line 29 in convickt.c < 1258146158 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258146160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: download and run the emulator yourself if you like < 1258146168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it comes with unix? < 1258146176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258146181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, has a separate download for it < 1258146184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1258146187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ < 1258146195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trailing edge, heh < 1258146199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"software kits" contains an image of a system installed with UNIX < 1258146202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks pdp-11s are much older than the trailing edge < 1258146205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three, in fact < 1258146216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If your host system is Alpha/VMS," < 1258146218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what in unistd.h is it that you use in that file? < 1258146221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations! You don't need a vintage system emulator. < 1258146224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure offhand < 1258146224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it is a blocker atm < 1258146233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take it out and see < 1258146233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove it and see what the error is? < 1258146243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're using V5 unix? < 1258146245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1258146247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking < 1258146250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice and old < 1258146258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V1 would be nicer of course :P < 1258146260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if ick runs on that, it probably runs on v6 and v7 < 1258146261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death to SysV! < 1258146268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysv changed a lot < 1258146276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it invented runlevels, for instance < 1258146279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so scratch my `init 1` idea < 1258146280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, file correctly identified unix_v5_rk.dsk as a "PDP-11 executable") < 1258146282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm only gets a warning then < 1258146284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about line 90 < 1258146288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the warning? < 1258146291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1258146296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1258146300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SysV is 5 < 1258146302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh just about assignment in if < 1258146306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix System V, commonly abbreviated SysV (and usually pronounced — though rarely written — as "System 5"), is one of the versions of the Unix operating system. It was originally developed by American Telephone & Telegraph (AT&T) and first released in 1983. Four major versions of System V were released, termed Releases 1, 2, 3 and 4. System V Release 4, or SVR4, was commercially the most successful version, being the result of an effort, marketed as Unix < 1258146306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unification, which solicited the collaboration of the major Unix vendors. It was the source of several commercial common Unix features. < 1258146308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so not related < 1258146310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what V5 is, then < 1258146311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also make a backup of the .dsk file, it's used to persist data in < 1258146316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no V release 5... < 1258146326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're releases of System I, or whatevef < 1258146328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whatever < 1258146340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt that < 1258146345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(!(ick_datadir=getenv("ICKDATADIR"))) < 1258146347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that line < 1258146358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, for getenv < 1258146369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is stdlib.h says my man page < 1258146372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks very ifdef-guardable < 1258146379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it's stdlib.h, just use that instead < 1258146380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Version_7 < 1258146388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, V7 is the first release to widely escape ma bell < 1258146389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... read what I said above < 1258146392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " ais523, oh just about assignment in if" < 1258146397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the mentioned line < 1258146400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: V7 looks like the best old unix < 1258146406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5 isn't even mentioned in Wikipedia... < 1258146409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just V6 < 1258146409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's likely to have the most features < 1258146410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For historical relationships, just look at http://www.levenez.com/unix/unix_a4.pdf or something. < 1258146418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V6 is 1975... < 1258146432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7 != SysV, just to clarify < 1258146433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think I'll target V7 < 1258146435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I think < 1258146437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it introduced lex and yacc < 1258146439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the next few files for convickt crashed the emulator < 1258146441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll be able to do a complete install < 1258146445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how boring :P < 1258146447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after spitting errors < 1258146457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too quick to see the errors though < 1258146457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: less boring if you can do the whole thing, rather than relying on prebuilts < 1258146499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i put the unix files? < 1258146502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a separate dir? < 1258146514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the clc-cset file crashes the emulator when compiling < 1258146515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP10 or PDP11, btw? < 1258146518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after some errors < 1258146521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: PDP-11 < 1258146525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From unix_a4.pdf, one path of descent goes V5 -> V6 -> USG 1.0 -> CB UNIX 1...3 -> System III -> System IV -> System V. < 1258146527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to see what errors due to the speed < 1258146533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "make" yes? < 1258146534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simh < 1258146542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might try this on a real old mac. Should be a bit more stable < 1258146545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well V7 isn't SysV. < 1258146554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /bin/exit is an /actual program/? htf does that work? < 1258146565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ofc not, or Caldera wouldn't have released it under a BSD-style licence < 1258146580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, this is before they became tSCOg... < 1258146584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kill(meinproctree()->parent) < 1258146587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how /bin/exit iwll work < 1258146592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will < 1258146609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sysv was developed concurrently with unix up to the tenth edition... < 1258146617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a /bin/cd= < 1258146619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -std=c99 -U__STRICT_ANSI__ -g -lrt -lm -D_GNU_SOURCE -I . PDP1/pdp1_lp.c PDP1/pdp1_cpu.c PDP1/pdp1_stddev.c PDP1/pdp1_sys.c PDP1/pdp1_dt.c PDP1/pdp1_drm.c PDP1/pdp1_clk.c PDP1/pdp1_dcs.c scp.c sim_console.c sim_fio.c sim_timer.c sim_sock.c sim_tmxr.c sim_ether.c sim_tape.c -I PDP1 -o BIN/pdp1 < 1258146620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: library not found for -lrt < 1258146620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1258146625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* exit -- end runcom */ < 1258146627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() { < 1258146628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seek(0, 0, 2); < 1258146630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258146631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many new features were introduced in Version 7. < 1258146631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming tools: lex, yacc, lint, pcc, and make. < 1258146638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an incredibly short program < 1258146641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, methinks targeting pre-V7 is crazy < 1258146645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it makes no sense < 1258146655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end runcom = end running command, duh < 1258146664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1258146667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got kill to kill itself < 1258146674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suicide(1) < 1258146675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by guessing what process number it'd be allocated < 1258146677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1258146679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oi, help me compile simh :-P < 1258146690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mkdir BIN < 1258146692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make < 1258146697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all I needed to do < 1258146701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258146706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no -lrt < 1258146710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the problem < 1258146712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it supposed to be < 1258146714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try dropping it < 1258146717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if it works < 1258146720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1258146721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what OS are you on? < 1258146722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since sometimes that stuff is in libc < 1258146723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258146725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258146726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropping < 1258146727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that sense < 1258146728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: osx < 1258146731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, bsd < 1258146746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: export OSTYPE < 1258146749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make < 1258146757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ifneq (,$(findstring darwin,$(OSTYPE))) < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OS_CCDEFS = -D_GNU_SOURCE < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OS_CCDEFS = -lrt -lm -D_GNU_SOURCE < 1258146758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : endif < 1258146759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to the docs, you need that export command on OSX) < 1258146762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is for "real time" stuff. like clock_gettime() and other high res and/or low latency interfaces < 1258146765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it never sets OSTYPE < 1258146769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets OSTYPE=darwin
< 1258146780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make OSTYPE=darwin did it < 1258146793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1258146793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it mentioned in the readme? < 1258146794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258146805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't bother reading it, this package looks really crufty :P < 1258146809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, compatible, i guess < 1258146824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0readme_38.txt" isn't exactly hope-inspiring < 1258146831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could have used autotools. You wouldn't have needed to check then. < 1258146842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also have done it entirely differently. < 1258146847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False dichotomy heyoooooooo < 1258146888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's version 3.8 < 1258146893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still < 1258146894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 0 is to sort it to the start of the list < 1258146965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads the output of "help" and goes "._."
< 1258146977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at something unixdiskname.dsk is what I need to do first, I think < 1258146980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go < 1258146994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : False dichotomy heyoooooooo <-- of course. I was joking... < 1258147007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh. < 1258147014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you start doing more funny jokes? :P < 1258147024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what're the commands you need? < 1258147036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. That would be breech of contract. < 1258147036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/pdf/simh_swre.pdf < 1258147050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *look of disapproval* < 1258147054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *breach < 1258147072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://imgur.com/5PUVF.jpg < 1258147084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn this pdf is loading slowly < 1258147093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey safari, why'd you gotta crash like dat < 1258147094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for UNIX v7, where \ represents newline, it's set cpu u18 \ set rl0 RL02 \ att rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk \ boot rl0 \ @boot \ : rl(0,0)rl2unix < 1258147109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the @ and : are prompts < 1258147118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> cpu u18 < 1258147118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command < 1258147127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing BIN/pdp11 < 1258147142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just skip the cpu line < 1258147148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess calling pdp11 handles that < 1258147167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't skip it < 1258147169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's needed < 1258147179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work. < 1258147190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, isn't that for the main simh binary? to select pdp11? < 1258147193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, i t's _rk < 1258147194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1258147203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that's for the pdp11 binary to select what sort of pdp11 < 1258147210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cding to BIN and then trying again, as it works for me < 1258147242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't work, and cpu isn't listed in help. < 1258147246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, are you calling? < 1258147287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "set cpu u18" < 1258147289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "cpu u18" < 1258147295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1258147295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1258147309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to copy files onto the filesystem ther
< 1258147311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1258147333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> set cpu u18 < 1258147333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabling XQ < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> set rl0 RL02 < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> att rl0 unix_v5_rk.dsk < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim> boot rl0 < 1258147334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@boot < 1258147336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1258147338 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258147338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for : being a prompt < 1258147343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's strange < 1258147353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the instructions are different for v5 < 1258147357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type unix at the @ prompt < 1258147359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than boot < 1258147378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then give the username as root, no password < 1258147378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other instructions different? < 1258147380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the cpu line? < 1258147405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu line's the same, but you're supposed to use rk and rk0 not rl and rl0 < 1258147415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would explain the filenames < 1258147426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258147429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RK02, as well? < 1258147431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of RL02 < 1258147443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't need that set line at all < 1258147443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258147472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set cpu u18 \ att rk0 unix_v5_rk.dsk \ boot rk \ @unix \ login: root < 1258147477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1258147481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all V5'd up < 1258147482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in? < 1258147486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck is this slow < 1258147499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar backspace < 1258147508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ^H backspaces on screen but not in reality < 1258147519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, the kernel is actually called /unix < 1258147535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: changes to the filesystem persist < 1258147543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i copied to pristine.dsk < 1258147552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm keeping the originals in the .zip files < 1258147566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! /usr/bin actually has files owned by the user bin < 1258147568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since /usr = /home < 1258147572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, V5 has yacc < 1258147575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v7 has man < 1258147580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shut your face with your V7 crap :( < 1258147589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmoooooooooooon < 1258147596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5 has the best cc ever, so cryptic < 1258147601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc -h < 1258147603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _maain < 1258147605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*_main < 1258147616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, and i still have an a.out < 1258147632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if you hit backspace enter, it cancels hte command < 1258147675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there isn't a way to kill INIT, it seems < 1258147681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kill init < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ps < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No swap < 1258147685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 0 +??^??~??[??J[R??S? ????? R? ? < 1258147686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: 1 /etc/init < 1258147692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you send it SIGHUP, it drops to single-user mode < 1258147693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting use of /etc. < 1258147710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is before the FHS was invented, I think < 1258147715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1258147720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FHS is Linuxcrap. < 1258147724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting is in a good way. < 1258147724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that process 0 looks suspicious, but I'll chalk it up to a simulator hiccup < 1258147750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FHS has one good thing about it: it is *a* standard. < 1258147766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, not everyone supports said standard, so that doesn't do you much good. :P < 1258147778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standards are overrated < 1258147782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ps seems to be broken < 1258147789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints "No namelist" regardless of what arguments you give it < 1258147793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# /etc/init < 1258147794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match < 1258147795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258147796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# /etc/init < 1258147797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/mtab: non existent < 1258147797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match < 1258147810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hands < 1258147812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hangs < 1258147842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these systems were designed to be turned off by pressing the off switch < 1258147848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like DOS was < 1258147851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do this! < 1258147855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258147859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what number is hup again? < 1258147862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1258147875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -1 1, catchy < 1258147880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's single user mode; nothing happened < 1258147887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and init is still there < 1258147892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs sync
< 1258147894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good practice, you know < 1258147906 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258147912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what filesystem this is
< 1258147933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RK? < 1258147938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or RL for you < 1258147950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes: /etc/umount
< 1258147954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be useful for shutting down < 1258147964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously halting won't happen, but I think I can get rid of the unix < 1258147984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Playing with UNIX v5? < 1258147989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1258147991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, the v7 one comes with some mail in the mailbox < 1258147999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says "Secret mail has arrived." < 1258148006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258148010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can control-D the single user mode to get multiple-user mode) < 1258148025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and root's password is root; it was the second password I tried) < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls /dev < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem < 1258148036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null < 1258148037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tty8 < 1258148039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ain't no disks therre... < 1258148041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1258148049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I must admit, I'm curious: is it possible to get any vaguely modern software working on there? < 1258148054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cat /mailbox < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From root Fri Mar 21 12:15:23 1975 < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo root < 1258148055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1258148061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we're planning to get C-INTERCAL working on there < 1258148064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, ais523 is working on V7 (not SysV) and C-INTERCAL < 1258148065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU! < 1258148066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Spiffy. < 1258148066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. < 1258148068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so insane. < 1258148080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have the source code for uudecode handy? < 1258148084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something simple, like, oh, modern PCC?) < 1258148102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, /usr/c has a bunch of source and binaries < 1258148116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey now, with V7 you can have ORIGINAL pcc! < 1258148121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with V5? Original authentic cc, bitch. < 1258148122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://www.nr.com/utils/uudecode.c.txt < 1258148124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under BSD4 < 1258148129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a copyright date of 1983 < 1258148132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks suitably old < 1258148153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no return type declarations < 1258148157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think you'll be fine! < 1258148169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Modern PCC is "original". Just maintained. :P < 1258148176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258148181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc has been updated for decades < 1258148190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses cat to transfer the source of uudecode
< 1258148196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1258148203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to guess where the disk device is? < 1258148208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this emulation is slo < 1258148209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow < 1258148213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably about original speed < 1258148218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may actually be able to build some GNU programs on there. < 1258148219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, /usr/sys has headers in it < 1258148222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: faster, i'm sure < 1258148227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I won't. :P < 1258148229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using /usr/root as my home directory < 1258148241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ~ is / < 1258148244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cat's catting so slowly I can read the individual characters as they arrive < 1258148250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least some of them have shockingly ugly code for the sake of being able to build on K&R C compilers) < 1258148252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because your mailbox goes there < 1258148254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but that's a really fugly location to use < 1258148255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm those were warnings not errors. And a real mac didn't crash < 1258148262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you tested on a real mac? < 1258148274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suspect that's primarily GCC these days. < 1258148276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes an old first model ibook < 1258148277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep mistaking this for DOS because it's such a pain to use and using dir(1)... < 1258148295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's chdir, not cd, doesn't help < 1258148300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which has a very lound whining harddrive (was less loud when it was new) < 1258148305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes some code with ED!
< 1258148309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ed! Ed is the standard editor! < 1258148310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I doubt could build *on* a v5 machine -- nowhere near enough RAM. < 1258148320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, flat battery, glitchy power connector < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ed < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1258148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258148323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this program seems to predate the # key < 1258148325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well guess why I prefer emulator < 1258148330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite < 1258148337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, cat ignored all #s in my input < 1258148340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of emulator thing? < 1258148346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignores all special chars < 1258148348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including @ < 1258148348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1258148352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably emulator thing < 1258148356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the prompt IS #... < 1258148363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "fatal error: Unable to open ick_lose.h"? < 1258148363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# echo 'ab#cd' < 1258148365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acd < 1258148369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is obviously the backspace character < 1258148369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in uncommon.c < 1258148372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any clue? < 1258148376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could set it to anything you want back then, after all < 1258148377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258148385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where is ick_lose.h? < 1258148390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, no puts???? < 1258148401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I transferred the file by catting < 1258148404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls a#b < 1258148404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b not found < 1258148405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1258148415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this thing predates vi < 1258148419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258148421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is a BSD thing < 1258148425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix ignored it even after it was invented < 1258148425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah include issue < 1258148426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so, probably < 1258148426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use ed < 1258148434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll have to remember how ed works now... < 1258148452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ed is the standard text editor." < 1258148452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c /lib/crt0.o < 1258148452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply defined: /lib/crt0.o;savr5 < 1258148453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _puts < 1258148455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that idea < 1258148458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use a to insert < 1258148460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. to stop inserting < 1258148461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w foo < 1258148463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D to quit < 1258148465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is print < 1258148467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ and $ work < 1258148470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// searches < 1258148478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do +1 and -1 to move around < 1258148480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do you < 1258148484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and s/// works too, doesn't it/ < 1258148488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1258148489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knoows < 1258148491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knows < 1258148496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I wonder how to type a literal # character < 1258148499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll use ??- < 1258148501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ??= < 1258148511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually having a legit reason to use trigraphs would amaze me, but why not? < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c /lib/libca.##.a < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un: _puts < 1258148512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it really does predate puts < 1258148520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the short names of the libs < 1258148525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-la -lc -lf -ly? fuck yeah! < 1258148555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, it has printf < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ed < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main (##() { < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("hello world\n"); < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258148569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1258148570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w hello.c < 1258148572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37 < 1258148574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c < 1258148576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ./he##a.out < 1258148578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1258148580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# a.out < 1258148582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1258148584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can program, me < 1258148586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for the flood, I'm just happy) < 1258148588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like . being in PATH < 1258148590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258148594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then a security flaw was, uh, something that it doesn't mean today < 1258148632 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258148639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems to ignore $ < 1258148640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Stallman specifically not add a wheel group to GNU su on the basis that he thought that people should have a chance to wrest control of a computer away from its current admins by guessing the root password? < 1258148650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably < 1258148652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1258148657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also had no password on unix for years < 1258148666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that computer allow remote logins/ < 1258148677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably once telnet was invented < 1258148680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he openly invited people to use his account < 1258148694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ages, the easiest way to get online was to dial into the AI lab at MIT and log in as RMS. < 1258148707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course; telnet is modern < 1258148711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone lines fuck yeah! < 1258148721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine many more people used the RMS account without knowing what "RMS" meant < 1258148724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode.c:40: External definition syntax < 1258148727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf does that mean? < 1258148728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine. < 1258148733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "extern"? < 1258148736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use cc, not pcc < 1258148738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even more cryptic < 1258148741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd bet RMS got backronymmed < 1258148749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote Management System < 1258148754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it doesn't like my trigraph < 1258148757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, that was C89 < 1258148764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You have *trigraphs*? < 1258148776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I trigraphed the program I was sending because the # character was being ignored < 1258148776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone backronym RMS into something resembling "open-access" < 1258148781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1258148786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remote m'login sir? :P < 1258148794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just write a c program that prints out # < 1258148797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with putchar < 1258148798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258148820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I could probably write a c program that did s/??=/#/ < 1258148830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or a C99 preprocessor. < 1258148856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stty erase '^D'
< 1258148860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's wrong... < 1258148864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stty erase '^X'
< 1258148873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't run oil, but now I have something in oilout00.c on mac < 1258148877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITHOUT running it < 1258148880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is on the real mac < 1258148887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258148894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the raise(SIGSEGV) stuff in it? < 1258148895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for < 1258148906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards compatibility < 1258148930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258148942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that always used to segfault < 1258148950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was no reason to change the behaviour when we fixed the actual bug < 1258148966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'^X' isn't accepted < 1258148972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you on v5? < 1258148975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was by v7 < 1258148981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# echo ^ls < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c < 1258148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :num.c < 1258148983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1258149006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kill character, probably < 1258149011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that deletes the whole line < 1258149016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed < 1258149048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sed aaaaaaaaaaa < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cat hello.c < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :num; < 1258149111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){ < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num2; < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num=rand(); < 1258149112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : num2=num; < 1258149113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%d\n",num2); < 1258149115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258149117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cc hello.c < 1258149119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5: Lvalue required < 1258149121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7: num2 undefined < 1258149125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1258149127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need "auto num2;" in a function, don't you? < 1258149152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you prefer "int" < 1258149157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no sed aaaaaaaaaaa <-- use ed < 1258149171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am < 1258149173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: meh! < 1258149185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "register"? < 1258149195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't, you'll probably run out of registers < 1258149197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /usr/c is the c compiler sources < 1258149202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C compilers were rather literal back then < 1258149202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even "static" would work there < 1258149202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... upsettingly moddern, the code < 1258149206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not olde times at all, really < 1258149212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from its simplicity < 1258149222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 stty erase '^X' <-- what does that mean < 1258149232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode.c:98: void undefined; func. main < 1258149233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set erase to control-x < 1258149234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258149239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh. < 1258149239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1258149249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ed, s/void//g :-D < 1258149254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that does all lines, maybe not < 1258149254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258149263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ed doesn't like s/// < 1258149273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1258149277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/void/d then < 1258149281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how to do it for every line < 1258149300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you deleted the whole line < 1258149302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay oil seems to require input file to use \r. < 1258149314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they should have had types on another line! < 1258149321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows the One True Declaration style looks like < 1258149322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void < 1258149326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int argc, char **argv) { < 1258149336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(—recent convert from straight k&r :P) < 1258149338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. That is C89 < 1258149343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though straight k&r has *no* return types.) < 1258149345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try K&R C < 1258149349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's easy to munge into k&r c, though < 1258149359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the type decl line, and delete one word after ( and , < 1258149359 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258149363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unprotoize < 1258149364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who cares about types) < 1258149372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, finally compiled uudecode < 1258149403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oil works fine of the input file uses \® < 1258149405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\r* < 1258149407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1258149408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1258149414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it workk? < 1258149415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work < 1258149418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, I'll be amazed < 1258149420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not sure, haven't tried it yet < 1258149423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uudecode uses quite some characters! < 1258149428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd stick to alphanumericals < 1258149428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds a small file to test with
< 1258149436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to write your own converters for that < 1258149455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assign one letter to "read two letters and combine" < 1258149463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recursive; we can handle one or two levels of recursion) < 1258149472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine as in, 36-bitwise < 1258149480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258149482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 36-bitwise < 1258149494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.16-bitwise :P < 1258149498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost worked, except it deleted the last character of the filename < 1258149506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the converter just stuffs ascii into that place < 1258149508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the additional thingy < 1258149518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 30 line decoder, and a 40 line encoder < 1258149523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there was an @ in there < 1258149537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, conclusion is that mac doesn't support the b binary mode for fopen < 1258149539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1258149550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you always get the \r \n swap with fopen < 1258149558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or that I didn't use it in oil.y < 1258149559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you need some other mac specific interface for binary < 1258149565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or that < 1258149625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't find *any* fopen in oil.y. And freopen only for stdout to a file < 1258149641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc does it, no? < 1258149677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if yacc's doing it automatically < 1258149682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's probably /it/ opening in text mode < 1258149705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary mode is the stupidest thing ever < 1258149711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil takes input on stdin < 1258149712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... in what way? < 1258149714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like... *actually* open this file." < 1258149731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When I say fopen, as in open this file and give me this contents, right, this flag means open this file and ACTUALLY GIVE ME THE CONTENTS." < 1258149740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, you mean the fact it's needed is stupid, rather than using it is stupid < 1258149747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258149753 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame micro$oft < 1258149753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ais523 oil reads on stdin, and no fopen and generated freopen in oil-oil.c < 1258149761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no yacc isn't doing anything automatically < 1258149765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is in text mode < 1258149767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, stdin's always in text mode < 1258149772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Hello, 12-year-old AOLer. < 1258149776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You found the $ key. < 1258149782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use it to insult a money-grabbing corporation? < 1258149786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know... like all of them. < 1258149805 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be really surprised if 203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net was an AOL address... < 1258149806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the stupidest angle of attack you could possibly mount on Microsoft stuffed into obnoxious leetspeak. Stunning. < 1258149883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing pretty well with this trackball, considering how long it takes anyone to be proficient with a mouse. < 1258149892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.t.Z: compressed with 16 bits, can only handle 12 bits < 1258149894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258149958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, this version of compress has an option to make it use legacy 12-bit behaviour < 1258149998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders how many years transferring the entire C-INTERCAL distribution like this would take
< 1258150025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 1759163 2009-11-13 22:00 ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.Z < 1258150044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too many, then. < 1258150049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say. < 1258150080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering files using cat manages a few bytes per second < 1258150395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using pcc or cc? < 1258150548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess Go is why Russ Cox has been so silent lately < 1258150574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :GO IS A DIVISIVE ISSUE IN THIS CHANNEL, also $pun | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1258150619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cc < 1258150629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is more likely to compile ick, but cc is far cooler < 1258150632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and far harder to understand < 1258150708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, odd thing: :: is /../ but ::: is /../../ I would have expected that to require four : < 1258150757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't < 1258150760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as : is . < 1258150797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258151061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so on a real mac now bin2c, oil and convickt builds. Note that the clc-charset thingy make sheepshaver crash < 1258151084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the bin2c generated files are generated. Same goes for the oil generated files < 1258151089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why? messing with binary files? < 1258151097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why what? < 1258151119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, clc-charset file? well it crashes compiling that file < 1258151136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after printing some of the warnings about suspect assignment in if. < 1258151150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning off warnings doesn't help < 1258151188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would turning off warnings help? < 1258151189 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-78-211.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258151193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh on a real mac those weird symbols are easy to type < 1258151194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the warnings might work better < 1258151200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right-alt plus d and f < 1258151226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1) too fast crash to see them, thought maybe the fact that printing the warnings made the window scroll could cause a crash < 1258151256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) seeing the warnings on a real mac makes it possible to see that they are the same in sheepshaver. On the real mac they are all about doing = instead of == inside if < 1258151257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1258151275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically: emulator bug < 1258151369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258151779 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258151981 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258152182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258152533 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258152559 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this tiny unix system that you are talking about? < 1258152564 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is using it? < 1258152629 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is ancient as well as tiny < 1258152641 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is the one using it, right? < 1258152652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523. < 1258152658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7 and V5, him and me respectively. < 1258152664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tiny only because it is ancient. < 1258152736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how tiny? < 1258152749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... PDP-11 tiny. < 1258152757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just Unix. < 1258152759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulated or on an extra computer? < 1258152765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainline Unix, straight from ma bell. < 1258152771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: neither of us have a pdp-11, no :P < 1258152784 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1258152795 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do TCP/IP? < 1258152802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no? < 1258152806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 1970s stuff. < 1258152809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V7, 1975 iirc. < 1258152811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5, earlier. < 1258152821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258152850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP/IP dates from the 70s < 1258152887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I just say that Go's make-based build system is wonderfully simple? < 1258152889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TARG=hello < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOFILES=hello.go < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) < 1258152890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.cmd < 1258152900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can substitute pkg for cmd to make a library, iirc. < 1258152901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive make considered harmful < 1258152913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, $(GOARCH) for amd64/386/arm/whatever to cross-compile. < 1258152915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Um... < 1258152919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good, because it's not recursive make. < 1258152924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the system for Go progarms. < 1258152926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258152929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the toolchain. < 1258152944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And really, recursive make is useful if you just want a lazy "okay fucking build everything plz".) < 1258152978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it has the nice property that cross-compiling works even with that minimal file... < 1258152983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make GOARCH=386" etc. < 1258153038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather bruteforce approach: < 1258153038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make clean < 1258153039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f *.[568vq] hello < 1258153249 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258153263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it forgot *~ < 1258153267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always useful to clean out < 1258153272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your editor's fault. < 1258153305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was sarcasm. Because I have seen way too many makefiles do that < 1258153307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that an RPN calculator is the best way to play around with Go
< 1258153310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1258153318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well it's funny, now that I know it's sarcasm. < 1258153324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an improvement in some sense :P < 1258153333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, improvement over what? < 1258153342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that aren't funny even when explained. < 1258153355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258153360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorpn: pronounced "gorpn". < 1258153368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord xyzzy gorpn quux. < 1258153378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what *is* gorpn? < 1258153382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go RPN. < 1258153387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an RPN calculator written in Go. < 1258153391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My creativity KNOWS NO BOUNDS. < 1258153398 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a roguelike! < 1258153398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that it'll be an implementation of an esolang, probably. < 1258153401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did Gregor say about Go? I forgot < 1258153407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Don't feel like binding ncurses < 1258153415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "IT'S HORRIBLE AND I HATE HOW THEY NAMED THE COMPILERS AND THE TOOLCHAIN SUCKS" < 1258153420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No justification was given. < 1258153424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a text adventure! < 1258153432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and something about the syntax being acceptable but the semantics being nonsensical? I don't even remember. < 1258153433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't read it too closely < 1258153438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gregor was PMSing. < 1258153441 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you needn't bind ncurses < 1258153441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im playing around with go by working with it in acme on a plan 9 cpu server that im drawterming to, its the ultimate Rob Pike fanboy experience < 1258153448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PMSing? < 1258153452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Males can in fact do that when presented with something sufficiently repulsive to them! < 1258153455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a scientific fact. < 1258153467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: jfgi < 1258153475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, rob pike fanboy experience? Do I even want to know what that is < 1258153489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an orgasm, but composed of love for Rob Pike. < 1258153497 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258153508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you fell about a makefile using ð instead of \ ? < 1258153514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as syntax I mean < 1258153516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rob Pike is one of the old guard Unix guys, huge force in Plan 9 development, wrote acme for instance, blah blah) < 1258153524 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what is that char supposed to be? < 1258153526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hurr I am Mac and I don't do charsets < 1258153530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: icelandic d :-P < 1258153535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also Go) < 1258153536 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaaaaay < 1258153537 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258153554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have broken unicode atm? Or was that a joke about MPW makefiles (because you already seen them?) < 1258153557 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah seeing Ken Thompson Rob Pike and Russ Cox working together on this is definitely the Revenge of Plan 9 crew, weve all been wondering what they were up to < 1258153565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Latter < 1258153572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, look at http://omploader.org/vMnJoag < 1258153576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rob Pike supports software patents and that makes me sad < 1258153588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what is the difference between one of those old-style s and two of them? < 1258153591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's so cool that it FADES INTO IRRELEVANCE < 1258153594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been unable to find proper docs < 1258153595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1258153597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea < 1258153602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's : < 1258153603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have been looking at examples < 1258153604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and :: < 1258153615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258153627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now what was the diff in normal make < 1258153631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been using : mostly
< 1258153632 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that looks like the hack some languages used to fit their semi-latin chars into 7 bits < 1258153649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, charset would be MacRoman < 1258153658 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tended to replace {|}[\] or whatever < 1258153667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, {} is used there too. See < 1258153678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a lot of the old guard has kind of had to eat crow on their early positions on free software and linux, ken thompson was pretty negative about the linux kernel in interviews in the 90s < 1258153680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [] and | works < 1258153722 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1258153732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well, the linux kernel is pretty shit to be honest. < 1258153751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and free software is just another copyright-centered movement, except with a really crazy guy at the helm < 1258153754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I'm pretty sure that I can type \ on it *tries* < 1258153755 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so he doesn;t dislike it as much now? < 1258153783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The greatest lie of the free software movement was claiming it used copyright to subvert copyright. It did no such thing; it is exactly in the spirit of copyright law and would fail horribly without it... < 1258153791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I can. AltGr-Shift-7 < 1258153795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives me \ < 1258153802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258153811 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, being employed by google and having his work be focused on it means that as a practical matter, i doubt he would make the same comments - a few years ago in an interview he basically took it all back and said that he thought linux was OK because it got the job done < 1258153813 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using the backslash key? < 1258153831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, on a classic mac yes. Using Swedish keyboard layout < 1258153836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, what did you expect? < 1258153836 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of FS was to stop people having programs they can't fix? I recall RMS telling a story about a printer driver with a bug, and being angry he didn't have thhe sourec to fix it and donate a patch. < 1258153855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on linux/pc with Swedish keyboard it is just AltGr-+ < 1258153876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmt.Printf("%s\n", os.Stdin) < 1258153877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1258153878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s(*os.File=&{0 /dev/stdin 0}) < 1258153881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun and weird! < 1258153893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, maybe that %s is being iinterpreted literally < 1258153911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258153929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird stringification < 1258153951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe that is what Gregor was talking about < 1258153957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1258154010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258154257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:10] SimonRC: I thought the point of FS was to stop people having programs they can't fix? I recall RMS telling a story about a printer driver with a bug, and being angry he didn't have thhe sourec to fix it and donate a patch. < 1258154258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was its progenitor. < 1258154275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stallman's method, however, was nothing short of perverse: enforcing a bewildering array of restrictions to get to the paltry grants. < 1258154311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking dominion of the infinite space of some information is exactly what copyright is intended for. The GPL user stands guard, slaying anyone who dares do what he was not told he could do. < 1258154330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not subverting copyright, that's being its BFF. < 1258154348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord, is this channel having simultaneous licensing and language wars? < 1258154367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There *is* a way to subvert copyright by granting all rights, thus meaning that anyone who receives a copy can know that all the author can do is sit there chillin'.) < 1258154376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is possible to talk about an issue without having a flamewar. < 1258154385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in fact, we haven't been warring about Go at all. < 1258154391 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think anyone is taking the bait to rise up and defend the gpl, though I certainly can mentally simulate what Eben Moglen etc would have to say < 1258154413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even the BSD and MIT licenses don't achieve it. < 1258154428 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can talk to an imaginary Richard Stallman in my head, and hear what he has to say, does that mean i have a cognitive subsystem that passes the stallman turing test? < 1258154431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still that one restriction (include this notice), and so the legal guardian is as primed as ever in the space-of-concepts. < 1258154440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can remove that. < 1258154441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no difference how many; only whether there are any. < 1258154444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have on occasion :P < 1258154448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then it isn't the BSD/MIT license, duh. < 1258154459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1258154467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mentioning the BSD/MIT license... < 1258154489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license text I settled on as the simplest, solid way to grant all rights for any given work (not just software) is, lemme find it... < 1258154510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No rights reserved." :P < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission is granted to copy, modify and distribute this work. < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO WARRANTY. < 1258154519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Public domain is... shaky. < 1258154527 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a joke. < 1258154530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. :P < 1258154538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "THERE IS NO WARRANTY" < 1258154540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying "Public domain, or if you prefer see LICENSE" is the best of both worlds. < 1258154546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In proper no-warranty style ALL CAPS. < 1258154559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: JUST IN CASE IT GOT DROWNED OUT IN THOSE FEW WORDS ABOVE IT < 1258154564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258154593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some software licenses actually grant the permission to use the software. < 1258154600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, I don't think we need your permission, dude. < 1258154621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses are for distribution anyway... < 1258154627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it was an EULA :P < 1258154670 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a matter of fact, i think the right to use does have to be explicity granted < 1258154678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in usa law under current interpretation < 1258154686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA law is a giant suckfest. < 1258154687 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see apple vs. psystar < 1258154690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the good kind. < 1258154694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that with a license, though < 1258154701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses simply don't apply to the situation of usage, no? < 1258154702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, that's just because Apple has redefined using as a kind of copying. < 1258154707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they'd be EULAs < 1258154910 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258154910 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258154910 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i thought that loading software from physical media into computer memory *is* a copyvio unless you are explicitly granted the right to do so as a necessary precondition of using it < 1258154913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, it should cover only copying. < 1258154916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright really ought to be /dev/null. < 1258154923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, it should die a painful death. < 1258154931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I left out "use" because I specifically made it usable for non-software works. < 1258155043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is public domain "shaky"? I never understood what the issue would be... < 1258155067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most laws of copyright don't let you release the copyright of your work until you've been dead for some years. < 1258155071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not well-defined what process is necessary to declare something as being in the public domain. < 1258155078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1258155088 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think the concept of public domain exists or has very similar ;meaning between different countries, whereas copyright is more harmonized due to treaties < 1258155105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is that? < 1258155116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dual-copyrighting" as "public domain or if you want it can be copyrighted under license-that-grants-permission-to-everything" is the best solution. < 1258155120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because they simply don't grant you the right. < 1258155129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say "If someone makes a work it's copyrighted until 80 years after their death." < 1258155141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at no point do they say "Oh, and the creator can release the copyright to their work, btw." < 1258155167 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, in terms of crazy copyright news, anyone hear a few months ago about egypt attempting to claim copyright on the pyramids and the sphinx? < 1258155199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258155221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the "authors" been dead for OVER NINE-THOUSAAAAAAAND years? < 1258155236 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, my time sense is off - it was two years ago, heres a 'reputable source' news link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7160057.stm < 1258155267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure mycroftiv exists in a realm outside of time < 1258155270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or he's stoned 24/7 < 1258155281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or both) < 1258155310 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using Plan 9 alters brain chemistry as much or more than any merely physical molecule < 1258155325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i very much doubt that < 1258155357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually feels safe opening links directly from XChat now
< 1258155372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I used Firefox, if I tried that, XChat would freeze for some time < 1258155374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, using a trackball, I think my thumb is now a contortionist. < 1258155377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some exercise. < 1258155384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess until FIrefox was able to process and start loading it < 1258155419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I misread that as "cartoonist" < 1258155421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was confused. < 1258155431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1258155451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: haha, my linux distro will confuse you plan 9 weenies — "/bin/8g foo.go? What kind of language is g?" < 1258155491 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... Isn't stuff like that supposed to be in /usr/bin? < 1258155505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what is a "contortionist" < 1258155507 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plan 9 everything gets union bound to /bin < 1258155513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/ < 1258155519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: /usr is the most retarded idea ever < 1258155521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trufax < 1258155530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm on a phone atm. To do so I would have to close the irc client < 1258155533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not in the day when it was invented (i'm talking about non-/home-style usr) < 1258155549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays it just adds needless hierarchy cruft. < 1258155556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why everything goes in /bin in mine < 1258155559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including /bin/linux) < 1258155568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you still refuse to explain it then? < 1258155575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's someone who's bendy. < 1258155581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1258155582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not refusing, it's not explaining it < 1258155590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't cause someone to do an active thing (refuse) merely by prompting them < 1258155615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can read DIlbert from the beginning!
< 1258155621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least, the first published one) < 1258155653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, all of these I read already < 1258155667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the one where Dilbert dies? What's the one where Dogbert dies? < 1258155676 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1258155693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dates of the dilbert strips < 1258155697 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, /usr is useful since it contains most of the program executables and data. Idea is that /usr would be put on different filesystem. < 1258155724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nobody actually does that :) < 1258155742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What Gregor said :P < 1258155759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-10-16/ The start of the Dogbert dies arc < 1258155814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But nobody actually does that :) <-- I do < 1258155820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on servers < 1258155825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny / < 1258155834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then separate /tmp /var /usr < 1258155838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and /home < 1258155854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt being a symlink to /usr/opt < 1258155888 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-10-22/ is one of my all-time favourites IIRC < 1258155935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to get rid of the instinct to simply copy the URL < 1258155942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, 999999999... < 1258155956 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suspect I have a book with that time period in it, which is why many of them looked familiar < 1258155967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two months after I was born, that latter one. < 1258155970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I think I do, to < 1258155974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the day. < 1258155986 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: argh you bloody young people that are almost overtaking me in skills < 1258156002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Thanks for the compliment? < 1258156011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(psst. most kids are fucking dumb) < 1258156031 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you aren't < 1258156049 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when you come out with jewels like not knowing htere were multiple moon landings < 1258156056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS A BRAINFART >_< < 1258156068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curse your accursed good memory < 1258156148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Chrome froze < 1258156154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, not for very long < 1258156426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the go tutorial has a cat... with a flag :-D < 1258156436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so it's just -n, which was in pre-cat-v, but still < 1258156549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagined a picture of a cat waving a flag
< 1258156568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello kitty style < 1258156602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" —Rob Pike < 1258156759 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rob pike did say though "the days of one tool per job are over, and the eulogy was written by perl" - still not sure exactly how he meant that, maybe just being realistic < 1258156787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Pimp Code