00:01:26 win dose? 00:01:35 No, Windows. 00:01:53 Cutesy names for things you dislike is a sure sign of madness, one that I occasionally slip into. 00:02:20 actually i don't actively dislike windows 00:02:24 WELL HIS NAME IS MADBRAIN ISN'T THAT SORT OF A HINT HUH 00:02:27 Then why call it Windose :P 00:02:33 oklopol: GOOD POINT SIR 00:02:45 haha my capslock key is mangled so i have to hit it really hard to get it to register 00:02:47 i like it 00:02:48 why not? :D 00:02:53 THANKS I CIULD HELP :)) 00:03:09 Ciuld? Interesting word. 00:03:22 ehird: have you found a nonbroken keyboard yet? 00:03:31 anyway it's like a dose of win, how's that insulting 00:03:44 ais523: this keyboard isn't broken, I just keep fiddling with it, annoying that the keycaps are hard to replace 00:03:45 i don't see what's so bad about windows anyways 00:04:01 ais523: I'm going to buy a really-good-quality keyboard sometime, and those have easy-to-replace keycaps 00:04:03 it can't read my thoughts 00:04:03 also, harder to take off 00:04:13 so that'll solve two things in one go 00:04:17 now what the fuck is that about this is the 21st century 00:04:30 madbrain: UI-wise, Windows 7 is pretty great. but programming, and internally? 00:04:31 ow 00:04:40 also, cleartype really needs a redesign. 00:05:30 so, whitehouse.gov now runs on Drupal 00:05:42 which is... uhh 00:05:46 probably a step down from whatever they were usinng 00:05:48 *using 00:05:51 (ASP.NET, I think) 00:05:57 well, yeah, i don't know much about win api but from what I gather it's probably a mess and the pumping out of new versions doesn't help either 00:06:06 heh, probably 00:06:14 windows is pretty much hell for the programmer 00:06:19 and its internals are scary. very scary 00:06:54 Incidentally, I type very well on a scissor-switch board, although with lots and lots of errors. 00:06:59 (Although I made no errors in that line.) 00:07:05 Very well = fast 00:07:14 I guess because of the low key travel and high activation force. 00:07:24 hm 00:07:57 So I basically slam each key and it hits rock bottom almost immediately. 00:16:06 What does: 00:16:07 (define (eval exp env) (cond ((self-evaluating? exp) exp) ((variable? exp) (lookup-variable-value exp env)) ((quoted? exp) (text-of-quotation exp)) ((assignment? exp) (eval-assignment exp env)) ((definition? exp) (eval-definition exp env)) ((if? exp) (eval-if exp env)) ((lambda? exp) (make-procedure (lambda-parameters exp) (lambda-body exp) env)) ((begin? exp) (eval-sequence (begin-actions exp) env)) ((cond? exp) (eval (cond->i 00:16:07 f exp) env)) ((application? exp) (apply (eval (operator exp) env) (list-of-values (operands exp) env))) (else (error "Common Lisp or Netscape Navigator 4.0+ Required" exp)))) 00:16:08 do? 00:16:15 If anything 00:16:23 lol. 00:16:28 that looks like copy paste from sicp 00:16:34 It requires netscape navigator 4, Sgeo. 00:16:34 oklopol: it's not 00:16:37 it's totally different 00:16:42 It's copy-paste from xkcd 00:16:50 Sgeo: Netscape Navigator 4 used to let you code in a subset of scheme 00:16:57 as a scripting language for pages 00:17:09 it wasn't widely used, though. 00:17:10 o.O 00:17:15 srsly 00:18:07 It wouldn't surprise me, Brendan Eich said that was what he wanted 00:18:13 -!- Azstal has changed nick to Asztal. 00:18:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:18:58 By the way, geocities is in the process of shutting down. 00:19:01 Sites are disappearing, so... 00:19:05 Maybe they really are erasing it. 00:20:24 I guess it's too late to go into Active Worlds and download the content that some ancient builds relied on 00:22:43 Gee, Sgeo, what do you want to do tonight? 00:22:44 The same thing we do every night, ehird — get nostalgic over old internet-based 3D virtual reality games! 00:22:57 lol 00:23:27 hey that doesn't look like an authentic conversation 00:23:36 did you forge it? 8| 00:23:44 I'M A DIRTY LIAR also a dirty referencer 00:23:46 oklopol: impossible! 00:23:51 oklopol, it does accurately represent how I feel about old internet-based 3D virtual reality games 00:24:11 Sgeo feels like a genetically-engineered mouse with an unusually large head. 00:24:14 How peculiar. 00:24:15 Sgeo: so plausible lies are okay lies? 00:24:24 oklopol: moral crusader 00:24:44 WELL EXCUSE ME FOR NOT ENJOYING YOUR SICK GAMES OF DISVIRTUE 00:25:02 disvirtue should so be a word 00:25:12 oklopol: Ancient Greeks like Socrates certainly thought so. 00:25:44 huh? 00:25:49 interesting. 00:25:55 GREEKS: DISHONEST CROOKS 00:26:16 Like I said (and sorry for not participating the whole Navigator 4 Scheme dialect fiction), it's the eval function of the SICP metacircular evaluator; as itself, without all the other functions it refers to -- particularly apply -- it doesn't really do much. 00:26:45 Liar. 00:26:47 It is modified. 00:26:50 CAN YOU SPOT HOW IT WAS MODIFIED? 00:26:53 (Hint: At the end.) 00:27:04 What's metacircular? 00:27:11 i never met a circular i didn't like 00:27:16 *meta 00:27:18 * ehird broke the joke 00:27:47 s/ular.*/ *hit by falling anvil*/ 00:28:06 I never meta circ hit by a falling anvil that I didn't like? 00:28:15 Changing a string literal is not much of a modification. 00:28:15 You're so compassionate to circs that are the victim of anvil-related attacks. 00:28:26 ehird: regexp FAIL 00:28:40 I never metacirc *hit by falling anvil* 00:28:40 .* is greedy, see? 00:28:48 I'm joking, see? 00:28:57 That, I say, that's a joke, son. 00:28:57 you are joking inaccurately 00:29:02 ah. 00:29:26 And an inaccurate joke is worse than none at all! Or was that a diagnosis? 00:29:43 an inaccurate lupus 00:29:46 matrix. 00:29:57 Inaccurate diabeetus. 00:30:09 a curate speeling 00:30:36 I know someone who tends to ruin his jokes by saying how they were inaccurate :/ 00:31:22 Gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander 00:31:34 wither do you wander 00:31:49 wither do you GANDER INCORPORATED 00:32:11 my light's flickering 00:32:13 hang in there light 00:32:23 I LOVE YOU LIGHT 00:33:15 * Sgeo needs to discuss an ad for class 00:34:07 * Sgeo was thinking perhaps an ad in a VR game 00:34:08 Like AW 00:35:23 {garlic} ∪ {bacon} 00:35:26 night → 00:36:27 * Sgeo gets angry at AWLD or whoever owns AW 00:36:38 There is a site that used to be the center of the largest world in AW 00:36:53 The entry place to this world has been relocated, and the old site deemed historic 00:37:23 Guess what I see? NEW STUFF, FROM AFTER THE RELOCATION! 00:37:35 (Well, I think it's from after0 00:37:35 ) 00:38:29 * Sgeo walks on a road from 1995 00:41:28 -!- coppro has joined. 00:45:33 This map will no longer work, in this build that is important to me 00:45:42 But I saved the map to disk, it's not gone forever 00:48:37 When Geocities dies, the map in http://imgur.com/Bbh1Q.png will turn to static 00:50:52 A lot of other stuff will turn to static 00:51:01 But not much that I've personally been involved with, so 00:52:44 * Sgeo may have been the only one in RSTV (which no one but myself cares about) to use Geocities 00:55:06 is that 2nd life 00:55:44 madbrain, no 00:55:47 Active Worlds 00:55:58 Much older than Second Life, and different in a lot of ways 00:56:48 what's that a map of? 00:57:18 coppro, RSTV 00:57:31 Old AW TV station 00:57:34 That I was part of 00:57:37 Never really took off 00:57:49 (At least, we did have a functioning station, but no one watched it) 00:57:51 iirc 00:59:34 -!- Oranjer has joined. 00:59:47 AW TV consisted of a script that would, every 10 seconds, show a different image 00:59:48 ^style 00:59:48 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp* youtube 00:59:57 whao what Sgeo? 01:00:01 It was possible to make an object that would refresh a page every 10 seconds 01:00:06 s/page/image/ 01:00:12 cool 01:00:12 actually 01:00:17 I have a firefox plugin that does that 01:00:21 well, add-on 01:00:40 I don't know if there are any still existant AW TV stations out there 01:00:53 "AW"? 01:00:54 VWTV, which was fairly big, and provided RSTV's hosting, died 01:01:02 Active Worlds: http://activeworlds.com 01:01:33 ah indeed 01:02:29 What AW did for pictures, instead of having them uploaded to AW's servers, people would just make an object that pointed to a URL 01:02:39 A lot of stuff was stored on Geocities... 01:02:41 uh-huh 01:02:42 :O 01:02:44 ohhhh 01:02:52 well, now there are alternatives 01:02:53 right? 01:03:06 Oranjer, but some of these builds are old 01:03:13 aye, aye 01:03:18 The original makers are no longer active in AW, and no one else can change them 01:03:22 http://imgur.com/Bbh1Q.png 01:03:43 That map is stored on Geocities, but I'm no longer an AW citizen, and can't change it to point to a new URL (not that anyone besides me would ever visit( 01:03:44 ) 01:03:57 heh 01:04:13 Do you want to visit? 01:04:14 :D 01:04:26 active worlds? 01:04:29 sure, I guess 01:04:30 yes 01:04:38 And RSTV in particular, perhaps 01:09:06 Oranjer, ok 01:09:13 Meet me in AWGate 01:09:30 um okay 01:09:39 (It's the place you go when you log in) 01:09:44 okay 01:10:55 Say somnething when you're there. If you stay silent, no one will know who you are 01:11:00 No name appears above your head 01:13:07 oh, okay 01:13:26 so uh I downloaded and installed it 01:13:41 Log in as a tourist 01:13:48 You can make up an email, they don't check 01:14:00 now I am automatically upgrading my version 01:14:10 I'm not at the logging in yet 01:14:12 Ah 01:14:24 Tell me when you're in, I'm going to play a bit of Paintball 01:14:33 in AW 01:17:15 I am here 01:17:19 I do not know what to do 01:17:25 how do I move??? 01:17:32 Oranjer, arrow keys 01:17:36 Click the 3d screen first 01:17:39 I'm trying 01:18:36 GODDAMMIT 01:18:39 it broke 01:18:40 :( 01:19:20 :( 01:19:29 :((((( why me? ))))))) 01:19:31 :O 01:21:56 BRB 01:22:03 uh okay 01:26:55 Back 01:27:00 Oranjer, you still on? 01:27:01 ah 01:27:04 yeah 01:27:08 ctrl makes ya run 01:29:03 * pikhq found a vaguely make-esque program that was at least patched to not suck with string handling 01:29:29 Pity it doesn't support parallelism or anything, but it doesn't act dumb. Hooray! 01:29:36 What is it? 01:29:46 You know that your conversion task could be handled by about 10 lines of Python. 01:29:57 "svmk.tcl", a simple Tcl script. 01:31:26 http://pastebin.ca/1644512 01:31:39 ahhhhhhhhh 01:35:12 Wait, out as in left AW, or out as in out of the water, Oranjer? 01:35:32 heh 01:47:02 "Oranjer":Eric, what year do you think it is? 01:47:02 Eric John:2004 01:47:26 heh 01:47:37 what did Eric say to prompt thatt? 01:47:38 *that 01:48:07 he was remarking on the year of the building we are in, I think 01:48:16 ah 01:48:24 you crazy windows users, you 01:48:26 having all the fun 01:48:43 heh 01:49:02 Sgeo showed me this virtual thing, but I must say, the controls are fairly counterintuitive 01:49:24 Oranjer, AW dates from 1995, I think 01:49:30 :O 01:50:02 it's as old as me :( 01:50:35 ha! 02:16:24 Oranjer, where are you? 02:17:49 I don't know! 02:17:56 I went through a door and BAM 02:18:01 I'm at a waterpark 02:18:22 Oranjer, click the back button 02:18:26 ahhh 02:18:46 That was supposed to be a thingy that let you go to different parts of the "hotel" that the whole thing was a part of 02:18:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:19:00 oh okay 02:19:02 It used absolute coords, so when it was relocated to a safe place, it broke 02:19:15 ...? 02:19:16 haha 02:19:20 You went back in? 02:19:32 no 02:19:36 I am at your pool 02:26:30 Oranjer, were you teleported again? 02:26:34 yep! 02:26:36 :O 02:26:37 Come to 3410S 24205E 02:26:42 okay 02:28:21 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:29:11 oh no augur 02:31:40 hey 02:32:05 hey augur 02:32:24 hows it going my oft wrong friend? 02:33:59 meh 02:34:18 * Sgeo dragged Oranjer into his nostalgia 02:34:26 :O 02:34:42 Sgeo did 02:35:07 I remember playing The Universal 02:35:19 Oranjer, I tried that once 02:35:34 heh 02:35:35 Just one planet of it, though 02:35:39 :O 02:35:40 Is it still alive? 02:35:45 I wouldn't know 02:35:56 I was only on for about a year, three years ago 02:36:02 mind you 02:36:07 it wasn't the game's fault 02:36:14 I had been trying to make my own planet 02:36:15 I remember almost everything I've been on since 2001 02:36:20 and my computer crashed 02:36:36 I lost practically all of my stuff I had ever worked on ever :( 02:36:43 Oranjer, wow 02:36:49 :( 02:37:00 * Sgeo has had 3 Crashes of that sort 02:37:05 heh, me too! 02:37:10 One, in and before the summer of 2001 02:37:10 3 crashes, two computers 02:37:18 One, at an unknown time 02:37:26 And one, no later than August 2003 02:37:45 I remember almost NOTHING of my online travels before Crash 02:37:46 Crash 1 02:37:50 :O 02:38:00 I do! 02:38:03 I may actually have data from before Crash 2 or Crash 3 on some HD somewhere 02:38:15 I need to investigate 02:38:19 I remember I was into Game Maker 02:38:30 I liked User Friendly and Cybertown 02:38:35 ha 02:38:45 I do not know what that means 02:38:52 UserFriendly == webcomic 02:38:57 okay 02:38:57 Cybertown == 3d city thing 02:39:00 ah 02:39:14 I stayed in Cybertown until, 2004 I think. One year after it went subscription 02:39:18 well, Sgeo, do you remember what planet you were on in The Universal? 02:39:24 Oranjer, one that involved flying 02:39:29 heh 02:39:32 they all did 02:39:36 space Crows! 02:39:39 That's about all I remember 02:39:44 my god I cannot believe I remember that 02:40:03 although, I always did love the planet "The Republic" 02:40:09 you started out as a caveman 02:40:23 and you had to basically recreate civilization 02:40:24 There's one 3d place that I can't even remember a name to 02:40:35 And I saw maybe 0 other people there when I was on 02:40:39 But I still want to find it again 02:40:41 you went from a caveman, knight, robber baron, guy on hoverboard 02:40:48 then it started over again 02:40:55 oh, Sgeo? can you describe it? 02:41:06 Um, it had a program to easily create your own nightclub 02:41:14 And in the main area, there was a grafitti wall 02:41:22 mind you, the important part of The Republic was that you could not do it alone 02:41:25 haha 02:44:28 There's another place that I remember the name to, but haven't revisited in ever. I really should, it's the reason I went to AW 02:44:44 I was looking for information on the book Flatland, and it just so happens there's a 3d thingy by that name 02:44:51 FLATLAND 02:44:53 great book 02:44:54 Somehow, don't remember how, I get from there to Active Worlds 02:44:57 Oranjer, agreed 02:45:58 "And so begins the Flatland Blog, albeit a little late as this saga began in 1996, the first year I could have gone to Burning Man and didnt. Instead I had just left a video game company and was struggling with VRML. If I, a veteran programmer of 10 years, couldnt make heads or tails of this format, how would creators in general deal with 3D on the Web?" 02:46:12 heh 02:46:26 I was also confuddled by the inefficient nature of VRML 02:46:40 a 3d thingy by the name Flatland, how logical 02:47:16 I.. might not have actually touched Flatland myself 02:47:42 None of these screenshots are triggering recognition 02:47:47 Where did I see that puzzle? 02:47:59 There was some egyptian puzzle like thingy 02:48:12 *atchoo* 02:48:13 :O 02:48:18 I can't remember the platform. Adobe Atmosphere? That unknown nightclub thingy? Flatland? 02:48:22 custom conditionals? 02:48:27 Flatland is an awesome book 02:48:33 heh 02:48:37 we agreed on that already 02:48:54 it deserves repetition 02:48:55 tbh, I remember Flatterland a bit better 02:49:04 heh 02:49:08 never read it 02:49:11 i don't know, i think it's lacking in depth 02:49:19 >......< 02:49:24 dammit oerjan 02:49:29 that's just not nice 02:50:06 anyway 02:50:14 I usually just use Flatland as a warning 02:50:24 you know, against closed-mindedness 02:50:49 as in, if someone comes up to me, and says they've found a Nazi mummy that's come alive 02:50:54 I'll sure as hell investigate 02:51:12 I may not believe them, but I'll at least see it with my own eyes 02:51:13 not run away like hell? 02:51:42 well, I will bring along some sorta weapon, of course 02:51:45 like a crowbar 02:51:49 yeah, whenever I hear something I don't believe, I always qualify my objections. Flatland helped me with that 02:52:14 yay! 02:52:22 I just try to avoid assuming 02:52:38 actually, Flatland helped me become a true fallibilist 02:52:46 BTW, that waterpark thing that Oranjer fell into was from 1995 02:52:53 oh, okay 02:53:15 * oerjan foresees many interesting discussions between Oranjer and ehird 02:53:32 :O 02:53:37 how so? 02:53:46 he's rather the skeptic :D 02:54:08 well, what do you think I am? 02:54:13 I merely take it farther 02:54:24 I am even skeptical of my own methods of reasoning 02:54:31 hm i suppose 02:55:10 :O 02:55:38 although, someone on here, I forgot who, disagrees with me on epistemological anarchism 02:55:45 Me. 02:55:50 It's bullshit. 02:55:58 hey, ehird! 02:56:18 also, E-prime! remember, "It's bullshit"? or "I think it's bullshit"? 02:56:31 oh god epistemological anarchism 02:56:36 what does that even mean 02:56:37 funny, E-prime is ALSO bullshit 02:56:46 ... 02:56:48 madbrain: "SCIENCE HAS A MONOPOLY ON REASON AND THIS IS WRONG" 02:57:03 sorry, ehird, but I believe you misunderstand 02:57:06 basically "Science is just as right or wrong as any other method of coming to conclusions, hurf durf, science-only people are dumb" 02:57:15 Then Wikipedia does too. 02:57:24 well, science worked hard to get where it is now 02:57:25 ... 02:57:33 "Epistemological anarchism is an epistemological theory advanced by Austrian philosopher of science Paul Feyerabend which holds that there are no useful and exception-free methodological rules governing the progress of science or the growth of knowledge. It holds that the idea that science can or should operate according to universal and fixed rules is unrealistic, pernicious and detrimental to science itself." 02:57:48 well, the first part is true, but the "science0only people are dumb"? poppycock 02:57:51 "The use of the term anarchism in the name reflected the methodological pluralism prescription of the theory; as the purported scientific method does not have a monopoly on truth or useful results, the pragmatic approach is a Dadaistic "anything goes" attitude toward methodologies.[1] The theory advocates treating science as an ideology alongside others such as religion, magic and mythology, and considers the dominance of science in society authoritarian a 02:57:52 unjustified.[1] Promulgation of the theory earned Feyerabend the title of “the worst enemy of science” from his detractors.[2]" 02:57:56 "The theory advocates treating science as an ideology alongside others such as religion, magic and mythology, and considers the dominance of science in society authoritarian and unjustified." 02:58:05 = B U L L 02:58:06 fucking 02:58:07 S H I T 02:58:27 ehird, what exactly does saying something equals bullshit...do? 02:58:36 it means it's bullshit 02:58:37 yeah that's like, either postmodernism of fundies... probably postmodernism 02:58:44 oy vey 02:59:21 ok well, from an epistemological point of view, ideas that stem from, well, the actual state of the world should be promoted 02:59:39 AH BUT 02:59:40 madbrain 02:59:42 Well, which viewpoint has given us the longest lifespans? 02:59:44 Oranjer also believes in some other theory 02:59:46 that states 02:59:52 "every imaginable reality is just as real as ours" 02:59:56 modal realism! 02:59:58 WOO HOO 03:00:02 SO ACTUALLY EVERY PHILOSOPHY IS EQUALLY AS RIGHT AS EVERYTHING 03:00:04 IF YOU'RE A RETARD 03:00:08 WHO WILL BELIEVE ANY OLD SHIT 03:00:08 *sigh* 03:00:10 yeah that's bunk 03:00:12 * coppro wishes he lived near Austria... murder is so much easier to commit in person 03:00:12 so deep, so deep 03:00:16 SO DEEP 03:00:19 that's basically denying the phisical world 03:00:24 coppro: who, exactly, do you want to kill? 03:00:25 Whether it's "real" or not is irrelevant to whether we really care 03:00:33 ehird: that Paul Feyeradsajfl guy 03:00:36 So what if some parallel universe has different laws from us? 03:00:37 he's dead, coppro. 03:00:38 :O 03:00:40 he's dead 03:00:41 haha 03:00:41 XD 03:00:44 darn 03:00:48 BUT IN A SENSE 03:00:51 YOU CAN IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE HE IS ALIVE 03:00:52 anyone here teach necromancy? 03:00:57 according to his theory it's as valid as science 03:00:57 AND BEING KILLED BY COPPRO RIGHT NOW 03:01:01 so by MODAL 03:01:01 REALISM 03:01:04 you are in fact doing it 03:01:16 so I'll just bring him back to life and kill him 03:01:24 :D 03:01:28 You are already doing it! 03:01:28 What's the difference between that any the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics? 03:01:34 *and 03:01:36 Sgeo: everything 03:01:38 who cares about the other world 03:01:39 s 03:01:43 in that the many worlds doesn't literally refer to "many worlds" 03:01:44 we can't reach them 03:01:47 Sgeo: the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics is a) dumb b) misinterpreted 03:01:49 and is actually a scientific theory 03:01:53 coppro: (a) no, it's not (b) agreed 03:01:58 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 03:02:12 epistemological defeat 03:02:13 it's far simpler than the copenhagen interpretation, which is hand-waving to boot 03:02:35 I'm not sure how it can be a theory if it's untestable 03:02:55 oranjer is gone 03:02:58 So is the Copenhagen interpretation. 03:03:05 But theoretically, you could communicate across Everett branches. Maybe. 03:03:14 Point is, we need a model and MWI is the simplest. 03:03:15 ehird: I forget the interpretation I prefer 03:03:19 And doesn't hand-wave, which Copenhagen does. 03:03:29 coppro: I have only seen MWI and Copenhagen being touted. 03:03:36 Oh, and that crazy quantum darwinism thing that only nescience believes. 03:03:39 But that's basically adjusted MWI. 03:03:40 wikipedia lists like 20 03:03:48 I dislike MWI, but only because of the implications I can imagine when I fantasize about time travel 03:04:04 MWI is what you need for non-paradoxical time-travel. 03:04:17 Not really 03:04:20 I agree with the idea that the Copenhagen Interpretation is ridiculous and stupid (see Schrodinger) 03:04:21 Yes, it is. 03:04:37 * Sgeo wikis 03:04:38 coppro: anyway, Hugh Everett was kooky, but it was fleshed out intoo something with real value 03:04:44 as unbelievable as that sounds 03:04:51 Why not something like the Novikov self-consistency principle? 03:04:54 (also, MWI != quantum immortality, which is bullshit) 03:05:21 if quantum immortality then MWI, but not (if MWI, then quantum immortality) 03:05:23 Sgeo: because the implications are ridiculous and would make time travel impossible 03:05:36 the interpretation I favor is whichever one says that it's a sort of past-of-least-resistance thing. It's a variant of MWI. 03:05:39 due to chaos theory, you can't do ANYTHING without creating a time paradox 03:05:44 or at least, most anything 03:05:48 coppro: heh, that's quantum darwinism, I believe. 03:06:08 ehird, but whatever effect you have is what had already happened, because of you 03:06:19 sgeo, you're boring and time travel isn't possible. 03:06:20 ehird: but that's not listed on Wikipedia! 03:06:24 coppro: yes it is 03:06:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Darwinism 03:06:37 not on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics 03:06:44 therefore it doesn't exist, etc. 03:06:55 build a quantum bomb, that destroys the removes the current branch of possibilities... the button will never get pressed 03:07:06 madbrain: sitcom opportunity! 03:07:11 yes 03:07:14 no, the one I like isn't quantum darwinism 03:07:20 "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Activate The Bo— Ow! You hit me!" 03:07:29 ridiculous 03:07:34 madbrain, or the bomb malfunctions, or the presser's finger vaporizes 03:07:51 Sgeo: I dismiss that theory easily: its complexity is unbelievably high 03:08:05 I'd think that bomb malfunction isn't that complex 03:08:08 The sheer "infrastructure" that would be needed in physics to prevent the events is ridiculous. 03:08:11 finger vaporization, yes 03:08:42 for a tv show it's a button that displays a naked woman. since the show is rated "ok for everybody", the button cannot get pressed, since if it did they'd have to rewrite the scenario 03:09:00 displays a naked woman then causes a time paradox 03:09:02 priorities, you know 03:09:06 gotta go out with a bang 03:09:09 IMAGINED OR NOT 03:09:11 oh i crack me up 03:09:53 madbrain, isn't that like discovering a technology that gets the USS Voyager home instantly? 03:10:05 If it's discovered, the show's over 03:10:19 IT CAN'T HAPPEN SGEO 03:10:27 your pet time travel enabler states so 03:10:41 So I can't switch into a discussion of TV shows? 03:10:46 nope 03:15:23 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 03:15:45 Sgeo: the universe conspires against you doing so 03:15:54 heh 03:16:21 Sgeo: incidentally, it did happen, and the show ended 03:16:45 Well, except for the finale 03:16:47 >.> 03:17:03 * Sgeo didn't actually watch that, but read about it :/ 03:21:40 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:25:02 what happens 03:26:15 ehird: Voyager gets home. duh 03:26:26 [02:16] coppro: Sgeo: incidentally, it did happen, and the show ended 03:26:27 [02:16] Sgeo: Well, except for the finale 03:26:30 or did those messages clash 03:26:33 i.e., not chronologically 03:26:40 yeah, think so 03:27:17 Um, that was chronological. By "except", I was referring to my earlier statement 03:27:20 now, to provide contrast, I predict that a way will be found to provide regular two-way travel between Destiny and Earth by... mid-fourth season 03:27:24 (if it gets that far, of course) 03:27:25 Ah 03:27:36 Destiny? 03:27:42 SGU 03:27:42 I DO NOT WATCH THESE SCI-FI SHOES PEOPLE 03:27:43 ... 03:27:44 shows 03:27:50 Stargate: Univers 03:27:52 +e 03:28:02 Stargate has a whole series devoted to a typeface? 03:28:02 * Sgeo barely watched any SG-1 or Stargate Atlantis 03:28:05 Wow, some tenuous plot 03:28:26 I think it would be bad for me to start on a new one, I barely know stuff from the old ones 03:29:02 SGU's pretty free-floating 03:29:14 though you'll want to catch up from the start rather than jump in 03:29:54 I'll have to look into it 03:52:36 I feel like there's nothing left interesting on the internet 04:05:49 Ugh... I hate giving times with international signaficance as just "EDT"... 04:06:08 At least also give UTC times... 04:06:44 Ilari: what makes it doubly bad is that 4/5ths of the world use "EST" when they mean "EDT" 04:06:51 I have been burned by this before 04:15:53 -!- Slereah has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:15:57 -!- Ilari has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:15:57 -!- dbc has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:15:58 -!- pikhq has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:11 -!- Cerise has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:11 -!- SimonRC has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:14 -!- mtve has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:14 -!- HackEgo has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:19:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:19:18 -!- Cerise has joined. 04:19:18 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:19:18 -!- SimonRC has joined. 04:19:18 -!- Ilari has joined. 04:19:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:19:18 -!- dbc has joined. 04:31:06 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:31:06 -!- mtve has joined. 04:40:28 -!- ehird has quit. 05:01:34 -!- Gregor has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 05:02:56 -!- Gregor has joined. 05:08:13 -!- madbrain has quit ("Radiateur"). 05:41:51 -!- coppro has quit ("I am leaving. You are about to explode."). 05:50:23 Sgeo: They've gotten tech to get the Voyager home several times. 05:50:37 And didn't use it for no good reason. Several times. 06:02:09 -!- cmeme has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:02:09 -!- Warrigal has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:02:09 -!- Guest76637 has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:02:30 -!- cmeme has joined. 06:02:30 -!- Warrigal has joined. 06:02:30 -!- Guest76637 has joined. 06:03:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:54:52 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:05:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:06:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:37:45 -!- iamcal has joined. 07:48:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:53:45 -!- Guest76637 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:26:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:27:09 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:32:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:45:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:10:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:22:56 -!- MizardX- has joined. 10:25:11 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:25:24 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 10:28:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:17:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:16:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:16:33 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:17:58 argh the puns in iwc today :( 12:24:45 The "for" keyword is used for looping. Most of the time. Sometimes it prints a random string to the screen. 12:24:56 ais523, what language is that? 12:25:13 it isn't, it was a hypothetical one 12:25:15 but we should make it 12:27:23 heh 12:46:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:42:12 -!- jix has joined. 13:50:42 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:58:21 -!- kar8nga has joined. 14:00:34 -!- Azstal has joined. 14:03:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:14:06 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:24:40 -!- jix has joined. 14:44:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:46:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:56:45 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 14:58:23 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:00:27 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 15:00:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:02:38 -!- jix has joined. 15:13:10 AnMaster: the question is, is Adam really sure they didn't find anything. it's mind control after all. 15:13:49 oerjan, see clog for my comments on the comic some hours ago 15:14:09 i did, otherwise i wouldn't have spoiled so blatantly 15:14:37 oh? You? Being nice? 15:14:49 suspicious ;P 15:14:51 incredible, i know 15:45:46 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:51:24 -!- Gregor has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:52:00 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:07:55 -!- fax has joined. 17:41:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 17:52:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:31:37 -!- augur has joined. 18:32:06 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:44:18 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:57:56 -!- Pthing has joined. 19:05:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:25:51 -!- MizardX- has joined. 19:28:57 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:29:20 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 19:36:30 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 19:46:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:54:03 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 19:54:20 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:06:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:07:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:32:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:36:13 * AnMaster wonders how sane it is to burn an iso file when the iso file is on an nfs mount 20:36:20 over 100 mbit ethernet lan, but still 20:36:31 hi ais523 btw 20:36:47 hi 20:37:38 also, very strange that only one of two computers, both having dvd burners claiming to support DVD+R DL, can actually see the disc 20:37:39 -!- FireFly[DS] has joined. 20:37:56 which is why I'm considering iso mounted over nfs 20:38:02 since other computer lacks disk space for it 20:44:17 where's ehird 20:45:16 http://users.utu.fi/yurnik/RO.pub.htm <<< that belarusian lecturer i once told about's course website 20:45:46 not sure it's as horrible with normal colors as it is with my ehird theme, but anyway 20:45:58 there's the dancing rainbow anyway. 20:47:41 smart people are stupid 20:49:52 -!- Gregor has quit (Connection timed out). 20:50:25 beats being stupid though, stupid people aren't smart 20:50:31 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:19:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:29:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:30:09 yay! 21:30:11 my monitor is here 21:31:57 that's good, then you can see us 21:32:16 * oerjan waves 21:33:00 /join #ion 21:33:02 erm 21:33:34 now i just have to figure out how to dual head 21:35:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:38:56 wow he uses ion? XD 21:39:55 ion can be both a positive and a negative thing 21:39:59 Maybe he just likes to hang around ion users. 21:40:22 (I think they call themselves "ionizers".) 21:41:27 bbl 22:03:19 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 22:03:33 well i got twinview working 22:03:44 which turns both monitors into one display 22:03:50 exactly what i don't want 22:06:53 If you're doing manual xorg.confery, you can do the "old-style" multihead simply by duplicating the "Device" section, putting Screen 0 in one and Screen 1 in the other, then two "Screen" sections, and both screens in the "ServerLayout" section the way you want them. (But I'm sure modern systems have more user-friendly ways of doing it.) 22:08:58 i am 22:09:30 bsmntbombdood, why are you using ION? 22:09:41 uhh, because it rocks 22:10:06 fizzie, for me it works by just doing /usr/bin/nvidia-settings and enabling twin-view 22:10:15 not often I have two screens around though 22:10:19 AnMaster: He just said he doesn't want twinview. 22:10:26 ah hm 22:10:45 where? I restarted client and reconnected to bouncer just before he joined last time 22:10:55 and no scrollback since I was connected before that 22:11:24 Immediately after joining; just look at the dozen last lines of today's log. 22:11:49 ah there indeed 22:12:00 * AnMaster is too tried 22:12:05 My nvidia dualhead setup looks like http://zem.fi/~fis/x.txt -- though with Ion, I guess you don't want Xinerama on. And those are numbered "0" and "2" because there's the third monitor too. 22:12:08 tired? tried? 22:12:08 err 22:12:11 fail XD 22:12:17 tired yeah 22:12:20 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 22:12:24 as long as it isn't tyred 22:12:31 (or tyerd?) 22:12:48 fizzie, I'm not going to open firefox atm, due to burning a dvd. 22:12:52 dual-layer one 22:12:56 so well, yeah I'll wait 22:13:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:13:51 damnit 22:13:52 didn't work 22:13:53 Isn't it against Ion's philosophy to do multihead, though? I mean, the reason given for not supporting Xinerama is "I'm not going to waste my time rubbing your unecological penis enlargement"; admittedly it supports plain X multihead, but I don't see how that would make it any more ecological. 22:14:12 fuck toumov 22:16:29 and i really suck at x 22:17:28 Since I'm not sure whether you saw it or not; here's one nvidia-card dualhead-without-twinview xorg.conf: http://zem.fi/~fis/x.txt 22:18:03 Might not be helpful at all. 22:20:22 fizzie, what does xinerama do btw? 22:20:52 is it the thing that prevents menus from opening split across the edge of two screens? 22:22:32 AnMaster: No; well, yes, in the sense that it provides the screen layout information. But without Xinerama (or twinview or such) the two screens are completely separate, meaning you need different DISPLAY strings to access them and all. Xinerama sort-of merges them to one logical screen, so that you can have screen-spanning windows, or move windows between screens. 22:23:07 fizzie, err, but where does twinview fit into it 22:23:55 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:23:59 because I know my system was compiled without xinerama support, could move stuff between the screens. But with xinerama on firefox suddenly didn't open the menu in strange places and such 22:24:08 was using twinview yeah 22:24:25 Twinview's just a nvidia-specific hack to make two physical monitors appear as a single "physical" X screen; that's what gives you the split menus and other ugly things like that. It has a "fake-Xinerama" thing which makes it provide the Xinerama information so that window managers know the physical screen boundaries. 22:24:59 http://pastebin.ca/1645677 22:25:02 why isn't this working 22:25:16 fizzie, hm 22:25:37 Well, what does your /var/log/Xorg.log say? 22:25:41 fizzie, sometimes it is useful to have a single window split across the monitors though 22:26:05 though 22:26:07 not menus 22:26:08 indeed 22:26:32 (Xorg.0.log more likely.) 22:27:01 i don't see anything interesting 22:27:27 bsmntbombdood: You probably need to add "Screen 0" to one of the devices, and "Screen 1" to the other. (Well, that's my guess.) 22:27:47 AnMaster: I guess, though I don't really remember ever wanting that. 22:28:30 yeah, splitting windows seems pretty useless to me 22:28:44 fizzie, kicker or similar? 22:28:50 (What I do use is separate browser windows on both screens, which is not possible with X multihead without using two browser instances.) 22:29:08 [growisofs] :-[ CLOSE DISC failed with SK=5h/SESSION FIXATION ERROR - INCOMPLETE TRACK IN SESSION]: Input/output error 22:29:13 * AnMaster stares in horror 22:29:30 ohsi it worked 22:30:03 Kicker's the KDE panel thing? I prefer separate panels on each screen, not some strange on-two-screens thing. 22:30:22 well, something worked 22:31:37 i have two screens at least.... 22:31:52 ^styple 22:32:02 fungot, ^style alice 22:32:04 fax: added a notation on the fuel tank issue the panther vehicles had. i apologize in advance if it seems important then, someone could add it to the page :) 22:33:01 hrm 22:34:25 i'm confused 22:39:51 i can't move focus from screen to screen with the keyboard 22:45:37 fax: exactly what do you think "fungot, ^style alice" is supposed to do? 22:45:38 oerjan: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ console/ xbox360/ image/ large/ fnord hammer 22:45:55 oerjan: Beware, the fnord hammer. 22:46:03 eek! 22:46:23 hammer _and_ anvil. i'm doomed! 22:46:58 hrm 22:47:00 weird 22:54:27 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:54:32 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:58:10 this might be more annoying than helpful 22:58:45 locking one screen doesn't lock the other... 23:00:17 That's a bit strange; at least xlock should lock all screens of a server, even without any extra looks-like-one-logical-screen trickery. (Some other methods of locking might not.) 23:00:18 xscreensaver won't let you run two instances either 23:00:24 niether will firefox 23:00:51 Firefox will if you use two profiles, but that's just annoying. 23:01:06 Maybe you should use a third-party-Xinerama-patched version of Ion. 23:01:12 maybe 23:04:33 i dunno how this shit works 23:36:45 -!- FireyFly has joined. 23:44:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:45:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:46:25 bsmntbombdood_, twinview would Just Work :P 23:46:35 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit. 23:47:09 AnMaster: no it does 23:47:09 n't 23:47:19 i don't want crap spread out over both screens 23:49:24 Indeed; since Ion doesn't do Xinerama, it can't know anything about how the screens are split when using TwinView. 23:49:32 bsmntbombdood_, use one then? 23:49:35 and unplug the other 23:49:43 oh right 23:49:46 ion fails I guess 23:50:08 or make a patch 23:50:18 There are existing patches, though. 23:50:23 use them then 23:50:29 fork ion? 23:51:19 no 23:51:40 someone should. It would annoy the hell out of the author 23:51:46 I have a feeling the Xinerama patches pretty much are a de-facto Ion fork. Haven't really looked at the situation. 23:53:04 All this X nonsense is inspiring; I think I'll check if my triple-head setup has magically fixed itself. (Some quasi-recent X upgrade broke it so that it crashes on startup unless I remove the third head.) 23:53:16 http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/misc.html 23:53:27 i wonder if i can use xrandr 23:53:51 fizzie, ThreeView? 23:54:01 "It will not support the pile of crap known as Xrandr 1.2 “Xinerama 2.0” (of the “choose the worst solution possible” design typical of major FOSS projects)" 23:54:31 what does xrandr do? 23:55:07 All kinds of stuff; on-the-fly resolution / rotation changes, mostly, but also multihead-related activities. 23:55:25 I just think pre-1.2 it didn't do anything multihead-related at all. 23:56:06 (And anyway nvidia's binary driver isn't very XRandR-friendly; it supports some basics of it, but not as well as the open-source radeon driver, whose "twinview"-lookalike is configured via XRandR, unless I remember wrongly.) 23:56:29 gah 23:56:36 -!- kar8nga has joined. 23:57:43 Haha; "Finally, here are some current window managers and tools that have an approach similar to (copied from) Ion --"; right, anything that's like Ion is copying from it. 23:57:43 bsmntbombdood_, switch WM seriously. 23:58:21 fizzie, ion wasn't the first tiling one was it? 23:58:30 I'm pretty sure it wasn't. 23:58:43 Not interested enough to start digging up dates, though. 23:59:10 ratpoison? 23:59:20 dwm or such I would guess