< 1255305850 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@70.81.136.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255305857 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255305867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness abounds < 1255305878 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having a hard time making an infinite tape in functional language < 1255305895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: tuple of two stacks < 1255305907 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm doing < 1255305926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: that is a tape. < 1255305935 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :steams !! < 1255305954 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacks are finite unless you jiggery pokery with the lazy languages < 1255305954 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right now that solution works with a finite tape < 1255305969 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :streams* < 1255305970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: they are _extensible_ < 1255305985 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language is not lazy :/ < 1255306007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ignore fax. but you do need to check for empty stacks, and extend when necessary. < 1255306016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: They are of arbitary size, unless your language implementation is broken. < 1255306020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as they all are.) < 1255306034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1255306054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: are you faxithisia [sp?] ? < 1255306126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: also, if your stacks are functions, then you can make them self-extending i think. but tuples may be easier otherwise... < 1255306134 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make an object that returns a new 0 integer when you pass it True and itself when you pass it False but as of yet it is not working < 1255306156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"new"? < 1255306201 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I implemented my 8bit integers more or less as objects < 1255306226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: well it would be f = b(0, f) wouldn't it? < 1255306229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1255306233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: well it would be f b = b(0, f) wouldn't it? < 1255306261 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't like "ignore fax", have I said something that is misleading or idiotic < 1255306276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: sorry that was a bit rough < 1255306282 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what I'm trying to do but the semantics are complicated and as of yet I've mostly got infinite loops or syntax errors < 1255306293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: it was wrong, though ;) < 1255306303 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure why a finite stack + a check if it's null to extend it with a 0 is nicer than an infinite stream of zeros < 1255306314 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan maybe you know something I don't like e.g. what language he is using < 1255306336 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong? < 1255306343 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take anthing that doesn't infinite loop :D < 1255306347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: he is using an esoteric functional language which is horrible to program in, so it's best to do everything as simple as at all possible < 1255306362 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to me "finite stack + a check if it's null to extend it with a 0" doesn't sound simple < 1255306387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: what was wrong was that you couldn't use two stacks for a tape < 1255306413 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You can certainly use two stacks for a tape: If you want an infinite tape then two finite stacks do not work < 1255306416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: however the alternative is to use a function for an infinite stream here. it _may_ be simpler though. < 1255306422 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose you could make the lists have loops at the end to make them look infinit when popped? < 1255306433 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really a function for an infinite stream? that's a great idea I wish I'd thought of that :P < 1255306437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: the language has nothing but tuples and functions < 1255306442 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simonrc: that's what I'm trying to do < 1255306448 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1255306490 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just added an interpretation of tuples as closures, which does help a bit, but this is still maddening :D < 1255306496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think its data is all immutable, i may remember wrong though < 1255306536 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, off to bed < 1255306553 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar < 1255306629 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the tuple-disjoin operators apply in the wrong order, which is quite confusing < 1255306638 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have made it postfix < 1255306709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: note that when doing fixpoints in a non-lazy language you need to include the argument before taking fixpoint, otherwise you get an infinite loop. (like in unlambda.) maybe that is your problem? < 1255306743 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've had that problem yeah < 1255306764 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you compile lambda calculus into Univar? < 1255306772 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea :D < 1255306783 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly yes < 1255306784 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably start by attempting that < 1255306793 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it turned out realy hard then.. give up) < 1255306805 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to do brainfuck < 1255306812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem i see with that is that univar, as the name implies, only allows you to handle one variable/argument at a time. although i guess tuples helps with that. < 1255306838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*help < 1255306853 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, in practice you make statements that reassign the variable with a new tuple < 1255306881 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can keep multiple variables, it's just incredibly inconveinient :D < 1255307066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is a bit crude :P < 1255307067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, if this is for proving turing-completeness, lambda calculus or combinator calculus is likely to be easier < 1255307071 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program="COPY PROGRAM HERE" < 1255307098 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the lua documention didn't mention any text input function I think :D < 1255307115 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you invented this language? < 1255307120 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1255307124 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1255307154 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite as cool as unlambda but yeah :D < 1255307164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: so i assume you aren't faxithisia from old then < 1255307221 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: When I run the cat program it prints each char on its own line - is that correct? < 1255307231 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan that was my old nick < 1255307234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1255307242 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yeah < 1255307254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well long time no see then, i think < 1255307265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: file:read(). < 1255307289 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Use something like io.stdin or whatever io.open returns as file there. < 1255307291 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilari: a good idea < 1255307322 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a way to make it print without newlines.. < 1255307335 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably is < 1255307346 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :io.stdout:write < 1255307568 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1255307570 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1255307618 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1255307639 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&,($$>,&(<,)(&>,&<,>,)<,) < 1255307640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&($>,<,)&<,&>,&<,>, < 1255307653 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do :P < 1255307673 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Can you write quine in it? < 1255307676 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1255307685 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before execution, var= 0 integer object < 1255307758 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it makes a tuple: var = {integer,infinite_stack_function} < 1255307806 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it makes a tuple in an alternative way that is functional (basically a function that returns a on true and b on false) < 1255307944 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in this new tuple it puts the integer object, and then a new closure/object made out of the infinite stack function and a tuple with the required data (integer object and infinite stack function) < 1255308067 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC language with unrestricted output should be sufficient for existence of quine... < 1255308070 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infinite stack function reads in a value, if it's true it returns the integer object, if it false it returns a new closure made out of itself < 1255308112 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah quite technically should be possible although I haven't tried it yet < 1255308144 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages < 1255308150 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, now I have a full branfuck infinite tape object < 1255308202 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: How do I do one thing after another: Like print one bit then print another bit? I guess make functions nested that do each one and put the result into the next in sequence? < 1255308226 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, functions are made out of series of expressions < 1255308265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Univar defintely has unrestricted output. So if it is TC, quine will exist... < 1255308280 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suppose you want to print something, you can keep the state of the variable like this: <&,!stuff_you_want_to_print < 1255308324 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Oh I can just write: !,!,!,!, to print , four times? < 1255308338 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!,!,!,!,) prints its argument four times? < 1255308353 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yeah, that's 4 statements but yeah < 1255308360 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused < 1255308364 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 statements? < 1255308366 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's if you want to print all of the variable < 1255308394 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yeah, all the code is made out of statements, but the assignment is implicit < 1255308401 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1255308418 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, &,, really means ,=&,, < 1255308430 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie var = {var,var} < 1255308437 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1255308447 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assignment is implicit < 1255308536 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to print a part of the current var, you'd go var = {var,print(stuff_you_want_to_print)}.left < 1255308577 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1255308581 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie <&,whatever < 1255308581 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hard :P < 1255308716 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure about the syntax: so I wrote some function ..., and I wonder if I need to write $(...)&,! to say apply a pair of the variable with an input bit to it < 1255308722 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that right? or I messed up somewhere < 1255308771 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1255308791 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input is ? < 1255308800 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1255308805 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have written ? instead of ! < 1255308812 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input from the keyboard < 1255308853 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that'd be $(..)&,? yeah, equivalent to var=func(join(var,input())) < 1255308897 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn my first program in univar didn't work < 1255308919 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1255308938 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just supposed to print the first char of the input < 1255308949 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i/o is bit per bit < 1255308960 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to transfer 8 bits first :D < 1255309012 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255309165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Someone should make executable which when run prints SHA-1 of itself (there's already C code which prints MD5 of its source). < 1255309190 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari was that done by brute force? < 1255309231 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: It doesn't require breaking the hash. < 1255309262 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at its executable data, SHA-1's it, print? < 1255309263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or better yet, SHA-256 of itself. < 1255309269 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work then < 1255309269 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1255309278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closely related to quines. < 1255309295 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1255309338 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, variant of quine which instead of directly outputting the string, feeds it to be hashed and prints the output. < 1255309372 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1255309538 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually might be even easier methods to do it with native code, as you can directly read the code memory. < 1255309562 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? works, but $(!,!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)? doesn't.. why? < 1255309579 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't they be the same < 1255309605 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one ends with ! < 1255309612 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!) is not legal < 1255309618 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1255309618 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! need something to print :D < 1255309619 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1255309622 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works :D < 1255309646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you write an interpreter that takes the program as a file instead of being embedded ... < 1255309667 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lua? sure < 1255309863 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I finish this brainfuck interpret :D < 1255309912 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, a.out can be made to just directly map the text parts of program and headers to memory. Don't use data segment and put all variables in BSS and its more like shooting fish in barrel (most difficult task is to implement the hash function). < 1255309956 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain I don't understand ! < 1255309965 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this part "put a 0 bit in the output buffer if its value is (>,) or a 1 bit if its value is (<,)," < 1255309985 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1255309994 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>,) and (<,) < 1255310013 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra comma was due to text formatting :( < 1255310039 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah (>,) is used as "true" bit and (<,) as "false" < 1255310120 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that's the wrong way around actually < 1255310131 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<,) is true and (>,) false < 1255310179 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do conditional execution with $$bit&(true function)(false function)parameters < 1255310588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages < 1255310597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/quine.html#sec_fp < 1255310754 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan can you actually produce the quine automatically from this proof? < 1255310768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly < 1255310779 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have a go at that some point in the future < 1255310837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also had a discussion on the wiki when someone tried to construct a tc language without a quine. it depends subtly on how you define "unrestricted output"... < 1255310857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if i could just remember the page... < 1255311218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk:Smjg was it < 1255311248 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255311498 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: I'm confused again :P .. if I do $(...)&,? that's getting (variable,input) inside the function (as it should) but if I do $(...)&?, that's getting (input,variable) .. but I expected it to be getting (input,input) < 1255311520 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't variable get written over by the ? part happening first? < 1255311568 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Smjg < 1255311608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, right < 1255311694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i think the assignment only applies to whole statements? < 1255311722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside an expression, ? just returns a value < 1255311735 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ? is a value yeah < 1255311755 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1255311770 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(...)&?, is equivalent to var = fx({in(),var}) < 1255311786 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1255311795 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read this fx({in(),var}) < 1255311826 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1255311835 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know what that means < 1255311863 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{x,y} is lua for "create new array with elements x and y" < 1255311879 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could also be written as tuple(x,y) < 1255311882 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$f&? is like f({in(), var}) ? < 1255311890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255311891 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255311899 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& needs 2 arguments < 1255311923 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but $f&?, means that yeah < 1255312352 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255312352 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255312741 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, I have everything done except the brainfuck looping :D < 1255312754 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you are fast < 1255312789 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I had most operators working already < 1255312818 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it can parse a brainfuck program into a function except for looping < 1255313055 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok looping time, this will require some fixed point magic :D < 1255313925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But the looping is the nontrivial bit. < 1255314020 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1255314137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255314954 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is failing to encode church numerals into Univar
< 1255314973 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255314993 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound that hard < 1255315043 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think you need closures < 1255315082 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church numeral 0 would be... (()) I think? < 1255315107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n f x = f(f(...(x)...)) < 1255315154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think making the argument a tuple would be easier... < 1255315208 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church numeral 1 would be... (&($<,>,),) as far as I can guess < 1255315210 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-146-170.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255315218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = ($<,$<,>,) < 1255315238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you don't need to return a tuple < 1255315254 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1255315268 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(&($<,>,),) is the d function I think < 1255315281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that _could_ be convenient... < 1255315297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d? < 1255315326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrementing is generally awkward with church numerals < 1255315331 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a special function evaluation: if you evaluate a tuple, it uses the left member as a function, and combines the right member and the parameter in a tuple < 1255315360 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie $&abc = $a&bc < 1255315362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1255315374 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically without that there are no closures < 1255315380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1255315422 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I modifed how that worked a bit because no closures was making things hard :D < 1255315607 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I was trying without, I couldn't seen any way < 1255315657 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can emulate closures but that was too ugly so I added a hack < 1255315670 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&()stuff = closure < 1255315676 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was trying that but I couldn't see how to do it for things like ((...)) < 1255315679 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have nesting < 1255315756 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when a closure function gets called, it gets a tuple with the original closure data on the left and the parameter on the right < 1255317198 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255317910 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1255317913 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looping works < 1255318041 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have brainfuck < 1255318136 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, nope :( < 1255318460 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, unpredictable crashed :( :( :( < 1255318610 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain http://pastie.org/650996 < 1255318616 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I modified the interpreter slightly < 1255318634 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference? < 1255318646 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I also put my program in there you can try it out < 1255318655 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was bloody hard :D < 1255318718 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay asterisks :D :D :D < 1255318735 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program uses church numerals to loop < 1255318744 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man that's an epic program < 1255318762 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255318852 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1255318865 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scratches his head :O
< 1255318934 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is like reading a solid block of unlambda :D < 1255319344 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1255322632 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1255324802 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255324863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did freenode-connect send a VERSION request twice? < 1255324924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't remember seeing that
< 1255325085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes, during netsplits i think < 1255325106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problems don't just solve themself, you know. < 1255325123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1255325125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know why many people don't like GPL, it is because GNU GPL is very communist. < 1255325137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1255325139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL v3 is even more communist, but I don't have the problem. < 1255325146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fine with that. < 1255325231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I haven't had problems with forking GPL'd projects. (That is, as long as the program runs!) < 1255325252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes I write short programs (or some others) in public domain, instead. < 1255325409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can see, how, maintaining a GPL'd project is not too difficult, here is a forked project so you can see by example: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ < 1255325451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The time on my computeris many minutes off. < 1255325468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, bus < 1255325470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1255325580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen keyboard with backspace below tab. But I think some space cadet keyboards have RUB OUT below tab, however. < 1255325611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever used any space cadet keyboards? < 1255325637 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1255325638 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1255325707 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is tempted to say "DON'T YOU MEAN UNDERLOAD, MADBRAIN", but it would make no sense because madbrain isn't oerjan.
< 1255325743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T YOU MEAN UNDERLOAD,OKLOKOK < 1255325766 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always mean underload < 1255325767 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1255325775 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1255325777 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do < 1255325779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/images/SpaceCadet1.jpeg < 1255325802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, you always mean underload. < 1255326018 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, except when i mean unlambda < 1255326025 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i mean unlambda < 1255326030 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not always < 1255326035 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i always mean underload < 1255326159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sometimes you mean both? < 1255326348 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no sometimes i mean unlambdad < 1255326352 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unlambda < 1255326366 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, only some bf programs work :( < 1255326380 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which programs? < 1255326404 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly hello world < 1255326414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some brainfuck programs require values wrapping 0-255 < 1255326430 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While others are universal < 1255326435 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think wrapping 0-255 should actually work < 1255326445 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a bug < 1255326460 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some kind of stack smash < 1255326487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix your interpreter, try that. You can also add debug codes to see how much memory is needed, too, if you want to do that. < 1255326630 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it does not support comments < 1255326678 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the programs expect 255 or 0 for EOF < 1255326682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. < 1255326687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually 0 for EOF, I think. < 1255326726 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, this sorter expected 255 < 1255326733 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crashed with 0 < 1255326734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs also work with no-change on EOF, some require 0 for EOF. Some might use 255 for EOF but I have not seen much of these < 1255326742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then set 255 for EOF < 1255326768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some brainfuck interpreters have command-line parameter to select the modes < 1255326919 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1255326942 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if the brackets are mismatched it will probably generate some horrible functionnal mes < 1255326959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's OK < 1255326978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All valid programs should have matched brackets anyways < 1255327005 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1255327010 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quine worked :D < 1255327058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1255327209 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha this fibonacci program is getting progressively slower < 1255327226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The megazeux.4th file is public domain, however. (It consists mostly of over one hundred constants) < 1255327252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the fibonacci programs uses infinite size numbers, it is supposed to get progressively slower, isn't it? < 1255327381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"It's getting late, it's dont?" < 1255327519 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1255327527 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok this interpreter works :D < 1255327558 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since most programs have newlines/comments/etc you have to edit them to remove that :D < 1255328174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got a Google Wave invite :D
< 1255328887 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar#Brainfuck_interpreter Yes :D < 1255329651 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1255330675 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255330688 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1255331524 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255331546 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255331566 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1255331667 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255332758 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255333106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:34 http://fof.durge.org/~sc/invite_only/langs.png < 1255333107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down now :( < 1255333136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:42:24 Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages < 1255333137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1255333465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:27:17 we also had a discussion on the wiki when someone tried to construct a tc language without a quine. it depends subtly on how you define "unrestricted output"... < 1255333469 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255333486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you must be able to print any computable translation of program state < 1255333611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, well, we should define it based on turing machines < 1255333617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any turing-computable translation of any turing state < 1255333627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you can't print out a certain register, that's fine, just emulate a turing machine < 1255333630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is allowed < 1255333640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc that fails for sub-tc languages, but "eh" < 1255333671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... having a TC language without a quine would be an interesting feat < 1255333690 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does BF have a known quine? < 1255333703 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard you like turing machines so a put a turing maching in your turing machine so you can compute while you compute < 1255333704 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lots < 1255333712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, just checking < 1255333721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:25:25 I know why many people don't like GPL, it is because GNU GPL is very communist. < 1255333722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) totally wrong, it is not communist < 1255333722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) I dislike the GPL for entirely different reasons, TYVM < 1255333739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shouldn't be anything theoretically requiring tc languages to have quines... but hmm < 1255333755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:30:09 Now you can see, how, maintaining a GPL'd project is not too difficult, here is a forked project so you can see by example: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ < 1255333755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody ever said it was difficult; people have philosophical objections to doing such a thing, howeveer. < 1255333757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*however < 1255333781 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems obvious that any tc language with output has a quine < 1255333787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: no < 1255333792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o"x", output constant string x < 1255333807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the finicky definition that you must be able to transform state into output arbitrarily < 1255333817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all state is required, just enough to use all the computational powers of the language < 1255333819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *very* subtle < 1255333826 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outputting constant strings is not output < 1255333842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you just offloaded the problem to defining output in a retarded way < 1255333856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... distinct from providing a definition of "IO-complete" < 1255333940 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255334014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1255334055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1255334399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1255334400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1255334405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bill O'Reilly: Why Obama's Nobel Prize, Deserved or Not, Is Good for America" // well... that's... an unexpected sentiment < 1255334419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scratches head
< 1255334425 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255335228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1255337071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free market economics: "I define theft to include taxes, and therefore taxes are theft, which is immoral and cannot be supported under any circumstances." < 1255337137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Usually followed up with, as in this depressingly-stereotypical case, "Also, if you're rich you're hardworking and manly! And the rich have no problem with the poor, the poor just keep themselves poor BECAUSE THEY WON'T WORK HARD.") < 1255337386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old versions (i.e., anything before 19.29) of GNU Emacs had problems editing files larger than 8 megabytes." < 1255338213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19.28 translates to November 1994; that's not so crazy-old. < 1255338589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, exactly. < 1255338611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping, Nine Megabytes And A Crash. < 1255338724 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255338779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you have to compare and contrast that to other state-of-the-art high-end for-professional-use-only text editors. Say, Notepad, with its 64K file size limit. < 1255338848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not Notepad in 1994, come to think of it. < 1255338950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite remember whether Write had some arbitrary size limits. < 1255339024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 megabytes... so tiny < 1255339273 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255339330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1255339346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a megabyte, it's by definition not tiny. < 1255339357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1255339361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you're here early... < 1255339406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got up at 1am, heh. < 1255339412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, woke at 1am, got up at 2am. < 1255339432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1255339437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels like 9am though. < 1255339448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I was wondering the one day about ehird's education. I mean, shouldn't you be having some sort of imposed schedules because of related activities or something? I understand that's customary. < 1255339467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am crazy good at slinging things < 1255339484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why is the local bus service website at .com? < 1255339504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because .com is memorable < 1255339526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1255339527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it evokes all those "dot-com crash" connotations immediately. < 1255339545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a local bus service, which is confined by definition to the area around Birmingham and therefore to the UK < 1255339555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should clearly be at .co.uk; .com makes absolutely no sense there < 1255339560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how am I meant to guess it? < 1255339561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com is memorable to people < 1255339575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody cares what you can remember after forgetting because you're a tiny % < 1255339596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com or .co.uk are memorable, .com is likely the first thing someone who only remembers the other bit to try < 1255339600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://networkwestmidlands.com/BusReview/Bus_Routes_and_Changes.aspx is the page I'm looking at now < 1255339600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will try < 1255339611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and < 1255339615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're busy messing with all the bus routes < 1255339623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that is mostly very sensible, but very annoying to me < 1255339638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's your problem :P < 1255339650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1255339658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could make it harder to get in in the morning, though < 1255339668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now definitely need two busses, or a lot of walking, no matter which way I go < 1255339695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm going to need a new bus map < 1255339711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm particularly annoyed because I tried to get a special sort of bus pass specifically to allow for potential changes < 1255339714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turned out it didn't exist < 1255339774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could try something other than a bos < 1255339774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bus < 1255339779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((like a public hovercraft)) < 1255339819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum < 1255339833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm petitioning the guvvmn't to make a public hovercraft service < 1255339836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it < 1255339837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HoverEngland < 1255339871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of TLDs and bus companies; there's this Finnish company (Matkahuolto) who operate between-cities bus stations and therefore are the logical place to look for tickets and schedules for any "not-internal" bus lines. They have two websites; a .com for the company (for freight delivery services and stuff like that), and .info for consumers-looking-for-bus-schedules. < 1255339901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "hovehird" sounds funny. < 1255339908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if dis.info is registered; that's a rather ridiculously obvious domain. < 1255339912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No HTTP, at least. < 1255339921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registered. < 1255339924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woe betide to me. < 1255339926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to me < 1255339935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registrant Organization:the disinformation company ltd. < 1255339938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUN < 1255340004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have a HTTP-answering server at disinfo.com. < 1255340022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boooooooooooorin' < 1255340072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that nic.info whois say "Expiration Date 01-Aug-2006 17:00:42 UTC" for dis.info. < 1255340139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's disinfo, duh. < 1255340155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a trademark claim registered in there; "dis" as the US trademark number 2218816. < 1255340156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the monopolistic registration cartel of the domain registrars. < 1255340170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAKE UP SHEEPLE < 1255340328 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are being very disinformational, since the actual 2218816 trademark is for the word "disinformation", not "dis". < 1255340371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Dis a variant of Malbolge? < 1255340394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First suggestion for "is hir" on the google: "is hiroshima still radioactive". < 1255340476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second suggestion for plain old "is ": "is she going out with him". Is that some sort of proper noun for something? It doesn't sound a very productive question to ask Google, especially like that with no names. < 1255340502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=is+she+going+out+with+him&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g4 < 1255340503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Song. < 1255340506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missing one word. < 1255340523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I forgot it when typing it here. < 1255341271 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1255342111 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255343545 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1255344487 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-heroqfthaqywpimv JOIN :#esoteric < 1255345314 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1255346573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255347507 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255349026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255349128 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-110.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1255349389 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255350009 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255350887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/648/ < 1255350892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ still not funny. < 1255351087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not just not funny, that's plain retarded, foliage is one of the most beautiful sights there is < 1255351106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my issue is not with looking at beautiful foliage, but insisting on taking photos of it < 1255351125 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-54.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1255351208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, *that's* a valid point. < 1255351275 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1255351436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255351479 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255352731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's wrong with taking photos < 1255352741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't think the point is to actually look at generic photos of foliage, do you? < 1255352785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255352965 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255352981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:05] ehird: ais523: what's wrong with taking photos < 1255352981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:05] ehird: you don't think the point is to actually look at generic photos of foliage, do you? < 1255353008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, so many people seem to take loads of photos, then forget about htem < 1255353009 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255353014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly putting them on Facebook in the meantime < 1255353022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't capture a moment by using a camera, it doesn't work < 1255353040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't, but you can capture a trigger for a vague memory of one for your recall later < 1255353062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people either take photos for that, or because they see something that strikes them as a good photo; overwhelmingly commonly the former < 1255353073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the facebooking is just because facebook promotes a weird social environment. < 1255353090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, people do take too many photos. it's because it's too easy and they have no discretion < 1255353117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have only been a few handfuls of photos of me for many years... < 1255353131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand Facebook at all; it seems like the sort of thing that isn't designed for me to understand < 1255353183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook today is nothing like Facebook was then. Facebook today is a "safe internet"; only your friends see things, everything is only a few clicks away, and it generally feels like a "border" around the internet; you can be comfortable inside and do internetty stuff < 1255353203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fails horribly because people are stupid and have no discretion. also, the idea of a second internet where facebook knows all your shit is wrong, just wrong. < 1255353217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes people happy. < 1255353229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough to understand, it's just not easy to like. < 1255353229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and here this was me thinking it was a method of sharing photos and of sending messages if you didn't understand email < 1255353242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot the quiz applications. < 1255353253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the supermegapoke applications! annoy people with 10 new ways. < 1255353262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I assume that sort of thing will pervade anything on the Internet, and isn't facebook-specific < 1255353269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they fill up your stream < 1255353294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shitfaced Retard poked you with a cake! [Please God Let Me Murder This Person] [Why Oh Why]" < 1255353308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Person did a quiz! WHY DON'T YOU DO THIS QUIZ? You can view our ads." < 1255353311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1,000 < 1255353316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thing you actually care about" < 1255353319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More crap x1,000 < 1255353385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all the successful Facebook apps require you to forward them to 20 friends before giving you the results of the quiz, or whatever? < 1255353391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that. < 1255353415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IAMA psychic medium" no you're not < 1255353453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, facebook has nothing of value to anyone who isn't interested in the bullshit parts of social interactions multiplied because they're only a click away, combined with the popular function of the internet among most people that causes them to become idiots < 1255353472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who doesn't need a sense of false security because it's only going to do anything to people on your friends list < 1255353553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, it only annoys people you care about < 1255353582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they give their info to facebook, view ads and nowadays occasionally even pay for doing so < 1255353587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant, isn't it? < 1255353617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some of my friends are trying to persuade me to create a Facebook account, but I'm ignoring them < 1255353667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the fact that they're trying it enough to show up on your persuade-radar shows that you have a less ridiculous social channel anyway :P < 1255353687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more the fact that I drifted out of touch with them for 4 years < 1255353694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only met back up with them due to randomly encountering them in a pub < 1255353714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of hard to drift away on facebook, you're bombarded with them until you defriend, at which point they get upset < 1255353738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which right off the bat makes it useless in the long term < 1255353741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1255353748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why it has so much short-term staying power, come to think of it < 1255353771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1255354101 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1255355175 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255355594 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d9074c@gateway/web/freenode/x-vixwuyhyoxbhziab JOIN :#esoteric < 1255355594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got harassed enough to make a Facebook account, but I can't say I've quite gotten "into" it; especially the applications part seems to make no sense. < 1255355647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" found a sad Ugly Duckling on their farm. Oh no! < 1255355647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : was farming when a sad, Ugly Duckling wandered onto their farm in FarmVille. This poor ducky ran away from his old home because the other ducklings made fun of him. He feels very sad and could use a new home. [Comment] [Like] [Adopt the Duckling!]" < 1255355675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Murder ] < 1255355697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it make no sense? < 1255355773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just don't see the point of it, I guess. < 1255355790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what does it even mean? What happens if I click there? < 1255355806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does somehow a duckling pop out of my monitor or what? < 1255355814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably not :-P < 1255355881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More likely, it'll start up Farmville and get you playing. < 1255355989 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255357939 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133378.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255358088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is moving in... uh... less than an hour?
< 1255358095 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255358131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may all call me "mr really-obscure-village-near-hexham-but-nearer-prudhoe" < 1255358135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "john", for short < 1255358225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean no disrespect, but that sounds so backwards. Are you going to start raising sheep there or something?-) < 1255358240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally, mon. :P < 1255358259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Prudhoe is like 5 minutes away from it, so it's not exactly isolated. < 1255358273 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it stocksfield < 1255358276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think of it as, you know, a sun flare. Except it's a ... place thing. < 1255358283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, my mother was raised there though. < 1255358291 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it broomhaugh?? < 1255358317 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't know the area, i am just reading out places from this map here) < 1255358342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's smaller than both. although i attended broomhaugh's ... wtf, I've forgotten what the name of the school-before-middle-schools are. < 1255358347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bad memory when I'm a bit sleepy < 1255358350 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primary < 1255358357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't called that here iirc < 1255358369 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuken geordies < 1255358376 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go join scotland < 1255358380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i'm not a geordie, I was born in the south! < 1255358385 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S WORSE < 1255358388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your names, they are more awesomer than ours. "Broomhaugh". < 1255358390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i stayed there for any appreciable amount of time, mind < 1255358393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: totally < 1255358428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: anyway up the zoom level a few times :P < 1255358485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's small enough that I thought I found a single relevant google result, but it was about *another* tiny village with the same name...) < 1255358525 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it """carlisle""" < 1255358545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not """carlisle""" < 1255358559 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man fuck this i'm not reading every fuken little burg in northumbria out < 1255358573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM < 1255358586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't have a phone line, so I'm going to have a fun day in Buying a 3G Modem Stick Thing land < 1255358592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yet, that is) < 1255358620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have this "running water" thing? < 1255358624 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255358640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that is the case. < 1255358661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, eel-ectrissy-tee. < 1255358669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is, but I think I like eels. < 1255358747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawns
< 1255358749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's eyes fuzzes
< 1255359635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Never am. <-- what I wanted to say was that it is a catastrophe that Gentoo marked KDE 4.3.1 as stable... < 1255359710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good afternoon! < 1255359717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, i'm tired and moving < 1255359731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's wrong with marking kde 4.3.1 as stable < 1255359739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some rule that kde 4 can never ever be stable < 1255359780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well for example it is still not usable in many aspects. Like konsole. < 1255359799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole in KDE 4 lacks the option to make bold look as bright. < 1255359811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effect is horrible with that control code as bolder text < 1255359828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and the spec allows either bold or intensified btw) < 1255359839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole from kde 3 has the option < 1255359860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is an open bug report. Developer show unwillingness even with attached patches. < 1255359867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait < 1255359874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i don't like a design decision, therefore it is unstable"? < 1255359880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remarkably egocentric < 1255359901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is dumbing down the interface and making the software ugly a "design decision". < 1255359918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess it is < 1255359930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a "misdesign decision" < 1255359932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, "my opinions are universal syndrome", i guess you suffer from hypocrititis too, since, you know, you accuse me of suffering form it < 1255359933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1255359943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially about such a minor cosmetic aspect < 1255359947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unstable as in "not a possible replacement for current stable version" < 1255359955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there are quite a long CC list on that bug. < 1255359963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are lots of other issues. < 1255359966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1255359991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i ask for an issue, you give me a subjective cosmetic issue that clearly the devs disagree with, and then a vague "lots of other issues", and therefore it doesn't count as stable (which = stable, not thing i like) < 1255360004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll stop making fun of you, too easy these days < 1255360755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are those 3g stick things any good? < 1255360760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically this one is faster than 3g, apparently. < 1255360770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll be on some carrier-specific band, no doubt < 1255360835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "3G" is a matter of definition. And it's pretty carrier-dependant, or so I hear. Certainly they're good enough for web-surfing, but more interactive things might be slightly painful. < 1255360846 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255360862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6Mb/s, apparently. Which will be, uh, less so, indoors, in a village. < 1255360871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, less so due to likely being almost a lie. < 1255360922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one's technically pay as you go, but it came with £15 = 15Gb (or GB or GiB? Who knows?) so that's better than all the monthly ones, at least if you're only using it for a month or less, which applies in this case (a week or so until the phone line is up) < 1255360940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; their goodness depends quite a lot on how lucky you happen to be when it comes to base station locations. < 1255361013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.metacafe.com/watch/255588/fun_with_an_old_hardrive/ < 1255361035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6 Mb/s sounds like the slower HSDPA theoretical-maximum (the faster one is 7.2 Mbps), which I think is even almost attainable in the real world. Though I don't have much hands-on experience with actual speeds, given that my contract is only for the slowest possible 384 kbps speed. < 1255361044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The other networks say "no, you cannot get it there" apart from 3, who say "you can get it... outdoors". < 1255361056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But vodafone are all, you know, hippie and loving of that postcode. < 1255361061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo, inside, sure!" < 1255361065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mann." < 1255361068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnn." < 1255361110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can improve things a lot with an external antenna, but on the other hand, really, a week is not a very long time. < 1255361138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Packing my vital stuff to move now. Will get the rest Some Other Time(TM). < 1255361168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better turn this off. See you all in... some time! < 1255361190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255363102 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1255363237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255363407 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255364451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Packing my vital stuff to move now. Will get the rest Some Other Time(TM). < 1255364453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1255364457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is ehird going= < 1255364459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1255364487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ? < 1255364492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi ais523 < 1255364580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See logs about 1h50m ago. < 1255364651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1255364821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how long before his landline is back up+ < 1255364824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1255364827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I know? < 1255364838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-12 17:26:08 ( ehird) Better turn this off. See you all in... some time! < 1255364841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't either < 1255364852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I thought he might have said it but I skipped the relevant line < 1255364855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1255364862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... 3G modem sounds fun < 1255364868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NOT) < 1255364917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how horribly slow surfing through GPRS (err actually not that, nor 3G, but something in between forgot the name of it) is. < 1255364923 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d9074c@gateway/web/freenode/x-rpajcmovprezwrhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1255364925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure 3G would be better, but not that much better < 1255365730 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1255366849 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255367119 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255367611 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1255367645 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255367905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255368104 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1255368205 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255368211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1255368453 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1255368612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1255368640 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it true that wolfram made a backup of your brain and patented it?? < 1255368645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1255368649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't let him < 1255368653 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that's how alpha works < 1255368740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it just lists Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica as sources, then displays the wrong info even though the sources have the right info < 1255368746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram Birthdate of Jimmy Wales < 1255368754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: there? < 1255368759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`c printf(2+2) < 1255368761 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1255368768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`c printf("%d",2+2); < 1255368769 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1255368770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birthdate of Jimmy Wales \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ Jimbo Wales \ Result: \ \ date of birth \ \ August 7, 1966 \ Date formats: \ \ 08 07 1966 month day year \ Time in 1966: th \ \ 219 day \ \ Observances for August 7, 1966 United States : \ \ no official holidays or major observances \ Notable events for August 7, < 1255368775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it was just being slow < 1255368800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, looks like the Alpha people have corrected it < 1255368803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a day out last time I checked < 1255368855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably meant EDGE there. < 1255368970 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha isn't sure what to do with your input < 1255368972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And original "3G" is that 384 kbps which is not much better; but HSDPA goes up to 3.6 Mbps / 7.2 Mbps, and HSPA+ to something like 20-40 Mbps theoretically. From what I hear, it's perfectly possible to web-surf with those connections without too much pain, though I guess SSH is still not so fun, thanks to the over-the-average latencies. < 1255368974 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram alpha isn't sure what to do with your input < 1255368985 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$Failed \ \  < 1255369008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram speed of 3G < 1255369015 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed of 3G \ \ Input information: \ \ magnetic induction radius electric charge mass \ \ 3 gauss 28 cm centimeters 1.6 10 \ 19 \ \ C coulombs \ 27 \ \ 1.671 10 \ \ kg kilograms \ \ Radius for the circular orbit of a charged particle in a magnetic field: \ \ speed \ \ 8.043 km s kilometers per second 8043 m s meters < 1255369035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so with a modern 3G connection you can download at 8.043 km/s. < 1255369041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not too shabby. < 1255369050 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.183.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255369116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the "You" a couple of minutes back was of course to AnMaster, I can just never remember the attributions.) < 1255369178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know how to boot Windows 7 in safe mode? < 1255369356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way as Vista? < 1255369421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Okay, so with a modern 3G connection you can download at 8.043 km/s. < 1255369422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :km? < 1255369448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the W|A query above. < 1255369450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't it be F8 during boot? < 1255369463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I already tried that < 1255369504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm < 1255369520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try tapping F8 rather than holding it down this time < 1255369604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resorts to the traditional tactic of cutting the power during boot
< 1255369612 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255369621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, back already? < 1255369637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, the computer is moved; what more does one need? < 1255369644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1255369646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello from a 3G thingy! < 1255369658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1255369660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when will you get landline? < 1255369664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS REASONABLY FAST IN FACT < 1255369668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like a week or so. < 1255369672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1255369682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This room is nice. < 1255369699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: moved house? < 1255369709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1255369729 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255369730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION breaks the news to a friend after having only mentioned it the first time some days ago and not mentioning it since by saying "Hi! We moved."
< 1255369754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how long ago did you learn this? < 1255369772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Two weeks? < 1255369782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been rather sudden indeed. < 1255369790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed < 1255369824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I moved last time I knew it months in advance (though that was mostly because it needed a lot of renovation before moving in was possible) < 1255369853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The layout of the two rooms I've taken hostage of are quite amenable to having lots of stuff in them, which is nice. < 1255369880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One of the rooms is admittedly quite small to count as a peer to the other; I'm in it now because it has a desk as opposed to a wooden chair, which is a more useful single piece of furniture.) < 1255369896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technically it has a filing cabinet too, and a storage unit thing in the wall.) < 1255370041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently you press F8 on the bootloader screen < 1255370048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION congratulates ehird on having priorities straight.
< 1255370048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be pretty tricky using GRUB, I suppose < 1255370053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, the browsing experience is perfectly fine thankyouverymuch. < 1255370065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latency is big, obviously, but reddit loads snappily in fact. < 1255370065 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1255370072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So " Bing!" < 1255370080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries speedtest.net
< 1255370086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably against the ToS :P < 1255370110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much, much better than GPRS, anyway. < 1255370114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next problem: how do you see your MAC address in Windows 7? < 1255370120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without admin access?) < 1255370124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download a third-party tool, I'd imagine. < 1255370134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1255370149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be something like "ipconfig /all" in the cmd.exe. < 1255370149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'd have to persuade the support staff to let me run it < 1255370151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have no clue about win7. < 1255370236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PING: 319 ms" < 1255370238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niiice. < 1255370239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on a Windows 7 forum is saying it's still there; and you can run "cmd" from the start menu to get the shell if there's no icon there any more. < 1255370252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.64Mb/s download, that's not so bad. < 1255370266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's perfectly acceptable for web browsing, even non-HD YouTube. < 1255370278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why can Windows terminals not be resized to more than 80 columns wide/ < 1255370288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Upload speed: 0.05 Mbps" < 1255370288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they hate you < 1255370293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet < 1255370300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they can be < 1255370302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seems to work < 1255370307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't resize it bigger than it is with the resize widget < 1255370310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to change the terminal settings < 1255370330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, there's a dialog box to resize the window < 1255370332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I hear, on the metropolitan area here you can sort-of count on getting one megabit (as long as the 3G modem is not completely stupid), but anything above that seems to be mostly a matter of luck. < 1255370338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next up: surely that was harder than just letting it work? < 1255370366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, programs can mess with it and such. < 1255370368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Console windows are a pretty special class of a window, I think. < 1255370378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So restricting the view is easy enough, but expanding it more of a "beefy" operation. < 1255370378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1255370402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, 0.64Mb/s indoors in a village with bad coverage; that's really very good. < 1255370442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the window is open. < 1255370462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hi! < 1255370467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "physical address" from ipconfig = MAC address? < 1255370470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1255370471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now proceed to be an irritating asswipe. You know, like before. < 1255370476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think so, yes. < 1255370477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except from a more peaceful location. < 1255370489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, around here things drop very easily from HDSPA to plain 3G to EDGE to even plain GPRS when you take a few steps off a city-class (though a Finnish "city" is not that big) area. < 1255370490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: let's hope this works, then < 1255370495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, soon, with five metric fucktons more desk space! < 1255370513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ever to GSM? :P < 1255370538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can find a non-GPRS GSM base station anywhere any longer, but I could be wrong. < 1255370544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I always write it "HDSPA" when it's "HSDPA", which is stupid, since the HS is from High-Speed. < 1255370556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, this connection is of course annoying to someone used to 8Mb/s, but it *is* just for a week or so. < 1255370568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, annoying for non-textual webpages, or textual webpages with an awful lot of cruft. < 1255370583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, that's perfectly acceptable for web browsing, even non-HD YouTube. <-- what about HD youtube though? < 1255370602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think I might have answered that in the statement you quoted with that explicit qualification? < 1255370609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaspeth. < 1255370640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1255370648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1255370654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could mean "but I haven't yet tested HD videos" < 1255370661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "HD videos seems to not work well" < 1255370670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was commenting purely from the speed; obviously half a megabit is not enough to do HD YouTube. < 1255370718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Windows 7 shuts down amazingly fast from safe mode < 1255370721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in about half a second < 1255370726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, it doesn't have anything to unload < 1255370731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just an HD sync required < 1255370794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" You are not able to access this service because Content Control is in place. < 1255370794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're 18 years or over, you can remove Content Control by contacting your mobile service provider's customer support < 1255370795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :team." < 1255370797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaaaaaaaaaaat < 1255370804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clicked a reddit link dude, admittedly to the same site as my carrier < 1255370816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles "hardcore porn" to see if it's filtering everything
< 1255370829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's allowed < 1255370837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROXY TIME! < 1255370867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha a proxy is blocked, ok better contact these shitfuck censors < 1255370989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ssh tunnel to a vps? < 1255371008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also you can't remove that since your are younger than 18 :P < 1255371016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do a slow thing." Or, you know, just get a parental overlord(TM) to get them to remove them. < 1255371019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good luck getting your parents to do it < 1255371023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MY EYES ARE 18 < 1255371030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your mind? < 1255371032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's filtering patently non-NSFW things. < 1255371033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyes. :P < 1255371052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and... how can you possibly hope to convince your parents about it < 1255371063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, you must have rather unusual parents. < 1255371097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's blocking random links because it mistakenly thinks they're over-18 only" seems like a rather sane reason to remove an arbitrary blocking filter. < 1255371110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if anyone actually cared they'd set up Net Nanny or whatever bullshit software is popular today. < 1255371118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like the wired connection has this. < 1255371332 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@212.183.134.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255371344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, wb < 1255371349 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar. < 1255371365 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reopening the shitty control panel thing I killed made it all go haywire, heh. :P < 1255371382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1255371435 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't know that installing any "driver CD" bundled with any device is bad idea? :-) < 1255371451 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Considering that it contained the *actual drivers for the modem*, I kinda think it was a good idea. < 1255371454 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know... on balance. < 1255371469 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crap is all neatly contained in one or two apps, anyway. < 1255371513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sometimes you have no choice. On Ubuntu I got the 3G stick working just fine, but on OS X it won't work with just the modem drivers; I need to run some sort of weird horribly ugly Vodafone app to init the card, feed in the SIM card PIN, then wait for the app to go all "hey, this is not a Vodafone SIM" and quit; after that I can use the standard OS X dialler to connect. < 1255371525 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's Vodafone and OS X for me too! < 1255371528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, btw, does it work under your linux install < 1255371528 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hi5* < 1255371537 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried. < 1255371541 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu probably has an automagic thing for it. < 1255371552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you actually on Vodafone? < 1255371559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if saying yes or no would be funnier there < 1255371566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1255371568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but Vodafone issues (at least to some customers) the same hardware. < 1255371576 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would yes be funny? < 1255371584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Vodafone being unable to detect their own SIMs < 1255371585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite obvious < 1255371589 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1255371596 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SIM was already in there for me < 1255371599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, you didn't spot it? < 1255371604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the joke I mean= < 1255371606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/)/ < 1255371618 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit tired, and wasn't really paying attention, so no. < 1255371667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Admittedly the equally ugly Elisa (local ISP/phone company) app/driver combination that came with the stick (directly on the stick; it pretends to be a USB memory stick before you toggle a bit to make it look like a modem) made my OS X installation unbootable, so... < 1255371712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Stuff like that is why I won't trust such stuff. < 1255371725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255371740 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It's all very well and good not trusting it, but if you actually want to, you know, use the stick... < 1255371793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1255371793 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1255371812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee. < 1255372120 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@212.183.136.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255372132 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, no more filterationermationitation. < 1255372394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, oh? < 1255372395 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to have a big window behind my desk. < 1255372418 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255372442 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.05Mbps upstream? That's like 5kB/s? < 1255372461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, unless he miscalculated it < 1255372463 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.4KiB/s. < 1255372468 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I used speedtest.net. < 1255372478 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Plus, of course, 300ms ping... to the same country. < 1255372481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1255372487 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's less than twice what analog modem could do... < 1255372499 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latency + slow upload is the limiting factor here; half a megabit is fine for downlloading. < 1255372500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, no *landline* < 1255372503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is a bit hard < 1255372503 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*downloading < 1255372508 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fine, though. < 1255372513 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's called a point of comparison. < 1255372521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, fair enough. < 1255372529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1255372530 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1255372540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I do believe I just sent my password unencrypted there. < 1255372546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, not like they care. < 1255372732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sent password for what where? < 1255372768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NickServ (although I admit that I use it for, well... lots of things. I'm going to start using a password generator/manager real soon now, promise!), over 3G modem. < 1255372775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I don't, you know, do that with my normal ISP all the time. < 1255372815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1255372824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why so XD? :P < 1255372913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you use the same password in more than one place? Especially for something sent unencrypted? That you say you will start to use unique passwords "real soon, promise"? The remark about the normal ISP? There were lots of reasons. Which one it really was is up to you, < 1255372917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,$/./ < 1255372996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1255373015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fully admit I'm ridiculously cavalier about my passwords. I'm pretty sure some other person has seen this one at some point, too. < 1255373100 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has password generator which takes service name, hashes it with MD5 and password and hashes it with SHA-256. Then it runs AES 2M times using hashed password as key and hashed service name as initial value. Then it tries to invoke some Lua code to form final password (doing another AES if conversion fails)...
< 1255373135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean "security by LET'S JUST RUN A THOUSAND RANDOM HASHES A BILLION TIMES RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH ULTRA-ENCRYPTED"? < 1255373141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh if I ever happen to enter a password into a chat by mistake I change it *right* away. Happened once recently right after I started using synergy. < 1255373150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES two million times, honestly. < 1255373152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to being at another screen that I thought) < 1255373162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I had it on a pastebin for a time! Got it removed though. < 1255373173 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES 2 million times (its there to waste time). < 1255373176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd take many, many days to find every place I use this password and change it. < 1255373196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? does it matter? just change the passsword where it is used < 1255373209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1255373231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what is your opinion on keychain apps? < 1255373244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. Eh. I don't have the brain to remember all the passwords, and post-it notes would just make me feel stupid. < 1255373246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the one in OS X < 1255373248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't windowing environments have focus lock? Application could say "no automatic focus transfer from this window". < 1255373253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Keychains are wonderful. < 1255373264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as they're OS-portable; pretty sure OS X's can be made to be. < 1255373273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1255373303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my current plan is to use 1Password on OS X; it has a sleek Safari-integrated interface and all that, and can generate secure passwords with an encrypted main database. I do believe their file format is used by other things, too, or at least readable; so I'll have a backup for other OSs (where I'll just have to log in manually). < 1255373321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 1Password is available for the iPhone which means that I can still hang on to that rusty, half-broken old thing. < 1255373332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, effort. So much of it. < 1255373334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULTIPLE CLICKS < 1255373336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually just need to remember a few passphrases: keychain passphrase, login passphrase, ssh key passphrase, gpg key passphrase < 1255373341 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-35.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255373345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice use of word passphrase, not password < 1255373364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "for the iPhone which means that I can still hang on to that rusty, half-broken old thing." eh < 1255373369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying < 1255373369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should we notice it < 1255373371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I think you are < 1255373373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I used DiceWare to make a passphrase and I still remember it; might as well disclose it as I won't use it: swamp kayo broom balled numb < 1255373377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you telling us your password has spaces? < 1255373379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That particular iPhone. < 1255373385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1255373400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I decided to not use it because "balled numb" wasn't very comfortable imagery.) < 1255373401 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255373429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with 1Password I should be able to just remember one password. OS X has fancy integrated ssh_agent stuff, so I should be able to key in autogenerated SSH passwords into it. < 1255373443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't help with sudo on remote machines; not sure what to do there. < 1255373463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also for passwords to put in keychain something more random is better. Like ebt98lKAMpVe1OktMnjjaW2U0 (just generated it using my normal generator script) < 1255373485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1Password has a whole page to configure every type of password imaginable to satisfy any pedantic web form. < 1255373494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes sudo on remote machines is tricky < 1255373494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Window page that is.) < 1255373554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and of course I use ssh_agent too, due to not wanting to type it *every* time. (especially irritating when pushing/pulling with some VCS over ssh) < 1255373587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, I wouldn't use ssh by password < 1255373588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but does your OS do THIS with ssh-agent? < 1255373589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dribin.org/dave/resources/pictures/ssh_leopard_dialog.png < 1255373589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has that disabled < 1255373591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, built-in. < 1255373601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the operating system. < 1255373604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loads browser
< 1255373614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comes with its ssh-agent. < 1255373618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um yes ubuntu did < 1255373620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1255373625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, probably. :P < 1255373631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the keychain checkbox. < 1255373634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1255373638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the useful part, really. < 1255373645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu and OS X are good at whole-system integration; other OSs tend not to be. < 1255373657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually the way it works it is remembered until you log off < 1255373660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying < 1255373666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather arbitrary. < 1255373677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably a setting somewhere < 1255373684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I would prefer it to auto lock after a few minutes < 1255373690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be better on laptop especially < 1255373697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just haven't got around to it < 1255373721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, post-1Password I should only have to change a few passwords in the case of a leak, and they'll all have the same contents: machine passwords, 1Password master password, ...can't think of anything else. < 1255373722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's nice. < 1255373817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? can't think of more than one master password? < 1255373824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two. < 1255373835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machine password = the 1Password master password, since there's no point remembering two. < 1255373854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is wrong with the built in key chain in OS X though < 1255373861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does 1Password work under linux? < 1255373877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1Password doesn't work on Linux, but I'm pretty sure other managers can read its file type. < 1255373877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, < 1255373878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with planning to change to linux and so on < 1255373886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not sure about that) < 1255373895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about what part? < 1255373901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux. < 1255373905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1255373928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try that 3G modem under ubuntu. If it doesn't work I will be extremely surprised < 1255373931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X's keychain can't generate passwords in a right-click-and-hit-1Password, and with a few clicks get a password tailored directly to that website's whims; then save it and let me click the 1P toolbar button on the website any time to log in; it can't sync to the iPhone, etc. < 1255373933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exist other password management systems that can be used on Linux, subject to the ever-present caveat that applications hate each other < 1255373936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it probably will work. < 1255373951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will likely work flawlessly < 1255373956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And? < 1255373961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you evangelising Linux? :P < 1255373966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems it didn't under OS X? < 1255373970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine. < 1255373972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, What? Me? < 1255373976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no of course not. < 1255373979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah; I'm pretty sure 1Password will have an export function that they like. < 1255373980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't do such a thing < 1255373996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu is perfectly fine; it has some deficiencies which OS X does not and vice-versa. < 1255374000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just pointing out how much better that piece of hardware is likely to work < 1255374006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1255374020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like sucky colour management < 1255374030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorsync is wonderful whatever else you think about OS X < 1255374030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yees, not quite what I was thinking, but sure :P < 1255374049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I imagined it wouldn't be < 1255374051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An important point is that while GNOME is wonderful, there isn't much usable third-party software beyond that. < 1255374057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of it's rather more crufty. < 1255374065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define usable :P < 1255374074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See GNOME's definition. < 1255374081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? they have one? < 1255374087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas with OS X, sure there's a load of crap, but there is a large base of applications that are like OS X. < 1255374093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably. Read the HIG; that's what's usable according to GNOME. < 1255374097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: can you please do me a favor and forward me the most recent Herald and Grand Poobah card reports? My copies appear to have vanished < 1255374105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that along the lines of "if at all possible dumb down the software instead of adding a setting" < 1255374125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, but have fun with your stereotypes. < 1255374127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure, in a min < 1255374142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a min < 1255374161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably the "Keep It Simple and Pretty" principle, after AnMaster-interpretation. < 1255374167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you drop that 3G modem once you get land line? < 1255374180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Would get a contract for laptop use. < 1255374193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The whole thing is focused on simplicity and learnability. < 1255374200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually the gnome terminal is *more* usable than konsole in KDE 4 apart from irritating that tab bar isn't always visible < 1255374204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, in practice, translates to long-term usability. < 1255374228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think third-party OS X developers are better at it than Apple is, tbh. < 1255374281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.flyingmeat.com/acorn/ ;; incidentally, could this be the first photoshop-style application with a sane interface? It also has a fun "layered screenshot" feature, so you can move about windows and stuff.) < 1255374285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the best apps are those that do not have steep learning curves but still offer lots of flexibility. Basically you can use a subset just fine, then you find a new feature, and wonder how you managed without it before. < 1255374320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a wonderfully lofty goal, but cannot work in practice. < 1255374338 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 annoyances: No KDE3-style run dialog as popup bindable to keystroke or as plasmoid. No way to configure RSS plasmoid to show what feed each item is from. < 1255374340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1255374341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every new setting doubles the possible configurations, doubles the cognitive overhead of the configuring user; it is impossible to "hide" a preference so that it does not bother someone configuring the application. < 1255374348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I can think of some examples < 1255374363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The double possible configurations makes maintenance difficult, leads to bitrot... < 1255374390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, test suite. < 1255374393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and as I said, there are (IMO) a few good examples on it < 1255374395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of* < 1255374406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the effort of maintenance is large for every option; the cognitive load for the user is non-negligible (whatever you may think); and more. < 1255374411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Test suite" is a non-sequitur in ansewr. < 1255374422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it isn't. Because the app I'm thinking about is bash. < 1255374433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not interested in discussing further; I know your opinion and I know that it's misguided, not backed up by the results, and without supporting logic. < 1255374435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*answer < 1255374449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have researched this extensively, as it is one of my main fields of interest. < 1255374451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can manage fine with a subset. Yet when you learn more advanced features, you wonder how you managed without those before. < 1255374464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you claim it isn't true for programming languages then? < 1255374468 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133042.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255374472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is after all just a sort of program < 1255374474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a shell is < 1255374506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not interested in continuing this conversation because I've had it at least fifty times with you and it always ends the same way; I have less boring things to do. < 1255374510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course like always you'll ignore that statement... < 1255374532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1255374552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be bsmntbombdood if not for the additional . < 1255374558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying that you are a turd would do well enough < 1255374627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So after age 18 does your maturity start devolving or something into petty insults within a year or so? < 1255374632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. Nobody ever told me. < 1255374653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd respond with something equally juvenile, but at least I have the weak excuse of being 14. < 1255374688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that was a mistranslation. /me looks for the right insult < 1255374703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you've reached a new low. < 1255374710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly enough of a low to cause this channel to reach a new low. < 1255374747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be hard with you around < 1255374854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if your mind actually has a distinction between rational argument and ad hominem. I suppose not, as you're always the first one to cross that line. < 1255374864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a Finish line, but perhaps a Swedish line. < 1255375058 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255375083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are both doodoo faces < 1255375194 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133042.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255376127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know completely about output of different program language. Some allow only numbers, and some have some characters prohibited in output. Maybe, you could make a quine with numbers < 1255376336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. < 1255376337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:48:41 21:25:25 I know why many people don't like GPL, it is because GNU GPL is very communist. < 1255376338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:48:42 (a) totally wrong, it is not communist < 1255376338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:48:42 (b) I dislike the GPL for entirely different reasons, TYVM < 1255376339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:48:59 there shouldn't be anything theoretically requiring tc languages to have quines... but hmm < 1255376339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:15 21:30:09 Now you can see, how, maintaining a GPL'd project is not too difficult, here is a forked project so you can see by example: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ < 1255376340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:15 Nobody ever said it was difficult; people have philosophical objections to doing such a thing, howeveer. < 1255376343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:17 *however < 1255376418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. What kind of philosophical objects did you have, anyways? Sometimes it is difficult, specifically, if the program doesn't work. < 1255376491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with the GPL's viral nature, its overcomplexity, and the fact that it relies on a UNIX-type system to make terms like "linking" meaningful, which is shaky and not a good thing to have in a license. < 1255376530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, there are a few problems with that, sometimes it is hard to completely understand in some cases. < 1255376557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when possible I favour contributing to and using similarly good BSD or MIT-licensed software. < 1255376566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is unfortunately rare, as the GPL is overwhelmingly common. < 1255376572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't use the GNU GPL in cases where those would probably be a problem. The megazeux.4th is public domain for this reason. < 1255376575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd use yasm over the other nasm clones. < 1255376588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The first two points always stand, even if the third doesn't. < 1255376637 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is complex. However, I think they made it this way to deal with some problems of before. < 1255376648 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a simpler way, they could try to figure something out. < 1255376683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always going to be conceptually more complex compared to BSD, MIT or a null-license (basically public domain spelled out). < 1255376694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first objection applies no matter how much they simplify it. < 1255376696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, of course. < 1255376718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I don't disliike the GPL because it's communist. I don't really think it's communist at all. < 1255376720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dislike < 1255376724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no wealth redistribution or anything. < 1255376729 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is viral. But I happen to like it this way (however it might be a bit too much viral?) < 1255376729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if we consider code=wealth. < 1255376816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, viral is just a matter of philosophy. I've concluded that it doesn't really help, and even if it did the detrimental effects outweigh it. < 1255376827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll choose if I want a viral license or not depending on the circumstances < 1255376847 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine. But I also choose what I want depending on circumstances too, of course. < 1255376868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs have multiple licenses you can select from. < 1255376876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the Mozilla tri-license. < 1255376894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1255376914 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255376932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the Conkeror tri-license, which is the same as the Mozilla tri-license except that it doesn't say "or later version" explicitly. However, I think "or later version" of GPL and LGPL is implied because of the text of the LGPL. < 1255376938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really use a viral license without being a hypocrite, since I support the abolition of copyright. I guess MIT and BSD technically add restrictions too, but it's better than rolling your own pseudo-public-domain license. < 1255376992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any new files added in Vonkeror, I have put GNU GPL v3, with an exception allowing the "workers of Conkeror" to select the old license instead. < 1255377066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think workers of Conkeror is defined enough for that to work in any way. (Also, that doesn't count as open source.) < 1255377070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, using a viral license is not that hypocrite, because it is that way simply because of copyright working, otherwise someone else can copyright it too much differently. If copyright becomes abolished I don't have any objection if viral licenses stop working because of it. < 1255377083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Quoth the OSI: < 1255377084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups < 1255377085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. < 1255377095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's why. < 1255377112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Vonkeror isn't actually Open Source. In fact, it couldn't be included in Debian. < 1255377128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *does* allow this exception to be removed, however. < 1255377131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So not Ubuntu either.) < 1255377134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like any other exception < 1255377138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1255377159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So therefore it can be made open-source with one change, by anyone who wants it to be as such. < 1255377168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can they remove it, though? < 1255377212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems sort of like, how someone says, they don't want to stop smoking, but they want to want to stop smoking, it just seems a bit similar logic a little bit? < 1255377215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the text of the GPL, ehird < 1255377224 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can remove it simply by removing that line of the text. < 1255377230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. < 1255377230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add exceptions, but they can be removed by subsequent redistributors < 1255377239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems ridiculous. < 1255377241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1255377246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could publish my own Vonkeror without the restrictions and no changed code. < 1255377251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1255377252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, zzo38's restrictions are now useless. < 1255377256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't add exception except in some cases. < 1255377259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why bother making them in the first place? < 1255377290 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1255377299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can remove the exception and license it under the GNU GPL v3, or ask the workers of Conkeror for permission and remove the exception and license under the Conkeror tri-license. < 1255377308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1255377332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm weird. < 1255377347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that was under any doubt :P < 1255377348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1255377420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1255377443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oklokok is tempted to say "DON'T YOU MEAN UNDERLOAD, MADBRAIN", but it would make no sense because madbrain isn't oerjan. < 1255377452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that would be *MAD* < 1255377461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan --------###
< 1255377467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1255377468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stole it while you were away. < 1255377475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets up anti-stealing forcefield
< 1255377477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1255377478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't, that's another one < 1255377484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets up anti-swatting forcefield
< 1255377486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just trying to fool me < 1255377492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. < 1255377494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for swatting. < 1255377510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas. but don't you be too safe. SCIENCE MARCHES ON < 1255377534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan --------###
< 1255377539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow! < 1255377543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1255377545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't help it < 1255377552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, it's addictive < 1255378039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan --------###
< 1255378051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think mine was laced with heroin < 1255378062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never buy fly swatters on the black market < 1255378065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I don't quite know why I set my F2 macro in IRC as :^ZDATA ^C CCUDI1 :# Appears as Jordan^M < 1255378079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of 0 reasons. < 1255378083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My F1 macro is set to :^ZUSER zzo38 0 0 zzo38^MNICK zzo38^M and that does make sense, however. < 1255378153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, after connecting I can type in the password if required, and then push F1 and it will then start! It is much more quickly than the old way. < 1255378185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: swatters should be bought in strange little shops that weren't there the previous day and aren't there later and have strangely exotic-looking shopkeepers. < 1255378208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if they're part of the black market or not. < 1255378234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255378237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan --------###
< 1255378248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's just an afghani model < 1255378256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently some IRC clients will not mask the password. Which ones are they, and maybe you should correct it? < 1255378275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this one does mask the password. < 1255378282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: o < 1255378292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could you point me to one of these temporal shops. < 1255378308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably supporting the taliban with it. < 1255378322 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A note someone posted on a message board, I have seen: "I'm not a complete idiot - some parts are still missing." < 1255378324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no, because, you see, they've disappeared, you see? < 1255378344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: joke, you see. < 1255378352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1255378362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found one, turns out this room is actually one < 1255378369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little frog is serving me < 1255378374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or is this just the heroin... < 1255378382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok ok so heroin wouldn't do that, but CONTINUITY man) < 1255378416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: :) < 1255378451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuity is just a bigger fish < 1255378779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frog < 1255378779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fish < 1255378779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frogs < 1255378840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" internet origination theories ": a discourse < 1255378897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :martians, clearly < 1255378927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cia got the internet at roswell < 1255378957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then slowly leaked it out to the military < 1255379310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah just like an ethernet cable dangling from space < 1255379384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what reports do you need? < 1255379390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushing F2 just results in a unknown command message. < 1255379395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Herald's and Bob's Grand Poobah < 1255379397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1255379406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (you know there are online archives right btw?) < 1255379409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F1 results in please register only once per session < 1255379416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but I keep local copies on my laptop < 1255379424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's correct < 1255379425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emailing myself a faked email is too much effort < 1255379432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is supposed to do that. < 1255379443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok that's just because they haven't leaked the ftl communication antennas yet, they cannot find a way to make it seem non-suspicious < 1255379453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they had to use cables instead < 1255379461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now it means you have to disconnect to try again, and sometimes it is not necessarily how you want, especially if you want to add a password in, too. < 1255379464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of the whole internet being based on the one ethernet cable dangling from space < 1255379468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still connected to a router < 1255379473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1255379475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PASS results in the same message. < 1255379485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just goes up and never stops! < 1255379486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just rubbish, ehird < 1255379487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I forget to type the password I have to try again < 1255379491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1255379504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Appears as Jordan" looks very comic-chat-ish. < 1255379505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HOW TO QUIT" < 1255379537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: done < 1255379551 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255379564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an ethernet cable dangling from space would be more useful as a space elevator < 1255379605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just climb up it < 1255379632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the other end is actually inside a black hole. < 1255379661 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a Google search doesn't help to make a list of which IRC clients don't mask the password. Although other people have told me that some don't mask the password. But it seems to me the only reason the password should be not masked if you use netcat. Any proper IRC client should mask the password? Apparently some don't. Help me figure out which ones because I don't know < 1255379671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares < 1255379677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read some article that says some people think there might not be any black holes < 1255379700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which article < 1255379709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: btw, you never notified c-walker you were joining the zooping contract, apparently. You now need to also notify comex to join < 1255379713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm sure there are lots of them < 1255379722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nobody told me < 1255379731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's in the contract < 1255379735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weren't exactly swiftly accepted to start with < 1255379736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know how to contact c-walker, gimme email < 1255379740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must notify all parties; I told you c-walker was a party < 1255379744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e's online with the nick "c-walker < 1255379779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:36] ehird: i am joining/have joined the bobzooping contract; this is the notification i have to give to you to join < 1255379789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok. Did you tell comex_ too? < 1255379804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i did < 1255379809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're in < 1255379824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes is second previous comment is ambiguous; it refers to the black hole doubting
< 1255379828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*his < 1255379832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the opportunity to say "toodles" on irc < 1255379882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((toodles )S:^):^ < 1255379882 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles toodles tood ...too much output! < 1255380241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time they have to draw your blood in the hospital or doctor office or in a operation, you will be forced to play mahjong and if you lose too many points then you will lose too much blood too and you will be dead < 1255380250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1255380252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice < 1255380488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255380552 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255380780 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@70.81.136.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255381001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↻ < 1255381010 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255381038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is supposed to stand for the cycle of the day or something metaphorical...) < 1255381136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1255381330 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d9074c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hbymtdlvabuaiteh JOIN :#esoteric < 1255381553 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1255381793 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished my brainfuck interpreter http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar#Brainfuck_interpreter < 1255381853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1255381867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are _officially_ mad ;) < 1255382036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1255382869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255382983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255383227 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Now quine (guaranteed to exist by being TC with unrestricted output). :-> < 1255383383 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, noticed that earlier today, looks nice < 1255383399 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to like that language < 1255383428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Or even crazier: self-SHA-256... :-> < 1255384189 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1255384622 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how to write a quine < 1255384691 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Probably quite nasty in language like that as it doesn't have any good way to represent data. < 1255384891 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt < 1255386049 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilari: well, you can represent data < 1255386067 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like &(<,)&(<,)&(<,)&(<,)&(<,) < 1255386093 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...&(<,)&(>,)&(>,)&(>,)&(>,)...&(>,)() < 1255386378 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255386395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1255386678 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilari: and various other similar representations made up of trees of functions < 1255387584 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: No good way to represent data. Sure, everything TC can always represent data somehow. < 1255387618 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Lua quine I wrote ran correctly on first attempt that did syntax-check. < 1255389912 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be cool? an esoteric video game system < 1255389992 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1255389998 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1255390006 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most esolangs are a bugger to write efficient code it < 1255390083 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255390498 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@81.99.192.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255390753 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1255390760 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1255391117 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1255391519 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)