00:01:14 -!- Rugxulo` has joined. 00:03:01 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:10:07 -!- Rugxulo has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 00:44:30 -!- Halph has joined. 00:51:24 -!- Halph has changed nick to coppro. 01:07:48 -!- coppro has quit ("I am leaving. You are about to explode."). 01:11:30 -!- coppro has joined. 01:52:59 -!- Gregor has joined. 02:00:08 -!- HackEgo has joined. 02:06:28 http://xkcd.com/156/ hey, I remember when xkcd was still funny. 02:06:31 i thought maybe i was imagining it 02:06:48 lol 02:27:47 -!- Rugxulo` has left (?). 02:32:26 :) 04:18:08 -!- comex has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:45:21 FIRST THING SAID FOR TWO HOURS THREE MINUTES 04:45:33 *AND THREE MINUTES FOR THAT MATTER OH YES OH YES OH YES INDEED 04:47:13 * oerjan calculates differently 04:48:43 pikhq 2:32 04:48:45 me 4:45 04:49:10 two hours = 4:32 04:49:10 oops 04:49:10 thirteen minutes 04:49:43 U FAIL ARTMETIC HA HA 04:50:10 artmetic 04:51:55 *RYTHMETICK 05:26:02 xkcd reaches still new levels of absurdity 05:26:15 indeed 05:26:20 though not, i think, of humor 05:26:24 agree again 05:30:25 hey, xkcd isn't even making a reference 05:30:26 or a joke 05:30:31 it's just a bunch of lines and some text 05:30:43 except one reference in the alt text 05:30:49 oregon trail! i bet he's been playing that game for months 05:30:54 what with the two comics about it 05:31:06 wait it's a game? 05:31:10 yes 05:31:18 PREDICTION OF FORUM THREAD CONTENTS: "GET OUT OF MY HEAD RANDALL" "hahahaha best xkcd ever" "Can I fuck you Randall" "I WISH TO HAVE YOUR BABIES YOU ARE GENIUS" 05:31:25 ehird: ? 05:31:29 05:31:36 * ehird wonders what word highlighted pikhq there 05:32:39 wow 05:32:39 http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46236 05:32:41 "pikhq". 05:32:41 they're mostly critical 05:32:44 Half an hour ago. 05:32:51 [02:32] :) 05:32:55 last thing said before me 05:32:59 Oh, that. 05:41:32 -!- ehird has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:43:34 which reminds me, is there supposed to be a pun in "Ex-Chat"? 05:50:12 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:50:46 i always assumed 05:57:00 can i get EgoBot to http pages for me, kinda annoying to go all the way to the other room to reset the modem thingie 05:58:21 hm... 05:58:33 !userinterps 05:58:34 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 05:58:45 !echo test 05:58:49 test 05:59:08 !echo http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric 05:59:12 05:59:45 oklopol: i conclude that as "yes, but" 06:00:04 (needs dcc chat) 06:02:20 You could hack up a script to do it more properly. 06:05:07 -!- acloglio has joined. 06:05:19 oerjan: artmetic is where you aren't bound by the usual axioms, but make your own rules 06:05:36 clearly. 06:05:48 also the new xkcd is not absurd, and is definitely a joke. it's just a particularly bad graph joke 06:05:55 -!- acloglio has changed nick to oklofok. 06:06:49 also kinda annoying how mirc chooses completely randomly what nicks to keep as my alternatives 06:07:02 because it always chooses the ones i definitely never want to use again 06:07:13 almost wrote "want" as "onet" 06:07:19 in any case, the sign of a burnt-out man 06:09:01 oklofok: it doesn't just choose the last one that is available? 06:09:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:09:21 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklokok. 06:09:31 it has two slots for nicks 06:09:36 main and alt 06:09:52 let's see if i'm still acloglio when i jump next 06:11:00 i recall once changing my nick like 10 times to make sure some nick isn't reused 06:11:02 it _could_ be complicated by when it saves state 06:11:42 maybe, anyway it seems i should be at the uni, time just flies by when you're crying over bad software 06:11:44 ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06:12:03 time flies like an arrow 06:14:09 !sfedeesh Recursion is fun. Or is it? 06:14:09 Recoorseeun is foon. Oor is it? Bork Bork Bork! 06:14:28 !swedish Recursion is fun. Or is it? 06:14:29 Recoorseeun is foon. Oor is it? Bork Bork Bork! 06:14:34 apparently not. 06:18:53 !swedish Sju skönsjungande sjuksköterskor skötte sjuttiosju sjösjuka sjömän på skeppet Shanghai. 06:18:54 Sjoo skönsjoongunde-a sjooksköterskur skötte-a sjootteeusjoo sjösjooka sjömän på skeppet Shungheee. Bork Bork Bork! 06:21:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:28:56 -!- ehird has joined. 06:29:21 21:43:34 which reminds me, is there supposed to be a pun in "Ex-Chat"? 06:29:22 X-Chat 06:29:26 default quit message: Ex-Chat 06:29:44 oh well. 06:30:26 anyway hi 06:32:32 anyway I'm back on os x. not sure why 06:32:39 font rendering sure is better thouh 06:32:41 *though 06:33:05 reality distortion, probably 06:33:13 nah :P 06:34:02 secretly reality is distorted every few minutes, but only the schizophrenics are able to notice it 06:34:16 mac os x is too darn pretty 06:35:26 I'm missing the hold-modifier-and-drag-to-move-window from metacity 06:36:29 * oerjan notices an anvil above, and says nothing 06:37:24 i cannot feel a thi- 06:37:25 -!- ehird has quit. 06:37:41 -!- ehird has joined. 06:37:49 -ng 06:37:50 how unfortunate. 06:37:55 sorry, connection dropped 06:37:57 how're yall'z 06:38:07 neither words in that sentence are! 06:38:10 *word 06:38:12 *is 06:38:49 also, good night 06:39:01 also, os x has still cracked mouse acceleration way better than other OSs 06:39:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("Cracking mice is hard to do cleanly"). 06:41:55 Firefox 3.6/3.7 did its own mouse acceleration on windows at one point, then they scrapped it because there might already be mouse drivers doing it. 06:42:06 It makes far more sense for the system to do it :( 06:42:26 Firefox... did its own... mouse accel- sorry, what? 06:42:34 Windows really is on crack, isn't it? 06:43:29 For big scrolls I use the middle-mouse autoscroll thing, anyway. I kind of like how Firefox does that one, and none of the other browsers do it the same :( 06:43:40 Opera does. 06:43:47 That should be done by the OS too! 06:44:06 Asztal: So, question. The mouse driver did the delay before a menu opens in NT 4.0, at least. 06:44:08 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462809 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509651 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513817 06:44:09 Does it still handle that? 06:44:42 ehird: It's in a registry entry now, TweakUI (e.g.) has an option to change it. 06:44:57 Well, at least that's saner 06:45:02 Most other UI delays are based on that delay time, too 06:45:08 But WHY does the mouse driver handle mouse acceleration? 06:46:04 It doesn't *have* to. Some do, apparently. Because Windows doesn't do any of its own. 06:46:27 Sure it does... it used to, at least? Right? 06:46:41 The MS people as new as 7 can't seriously have never ever studied any mouse ergonomics. 06:47:12 Also, gah why don't other OSs do OS X's scroll acceleration? 06:47:37 You don't need any headache-inducing smooth scrolling because small movements just go a little bit, but if you flick it you can easily move across the whole document. 06:48:26 I'm glad I don't use Firefox on any OS, though... it's clear they want to be an island and don't care about the platform. 06:50:26 * ehird wonders how to make Colloquy inform on every new message. 06:51:05 There. 06:51:09 Asztal: say something plz 06:51:51 Mr. Flibble is very cross. 06:52:02 Mmph, uses Growl, not the dock icon. 06:52:18 But I don't want to bounce it in the dock. 06:53:23 I demand you speak! 06:53:47 * Asztal mumbles incoherently instead 06:54:12 Ehh... I want a persistent, non-annoying blob so that I know there's messages to read, not a single bounce. :( 06:54:29 "So if we back out the acceleration model, we are left with the problem that Chrome is perceptually twice as fast as us at scrolling" 06:54:41 ... 06:54:50 I am so, so glad I do not use Firefox. 06:56:46 Firefox 3.6 includes new features such as not enumerating every single system font before even showing a window. 06:57:05 I don't know how you could stay away, really. 06:57:42 Asztal: I do have to wonder why you torture yourself with bad programs on a bad OS. :P 06:58:54 I wonder that too :( 06:59:18 Stupid windows-only games. Bad habit. :P 07:00:24 Asztal: I've never understood how non-constant gaming can justify such horror... 07:00:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 07:04:12 I've adapted to using bad software. I can even use Windows Media Player (!) 07:04:27 You know, you've done serious psychological damage to yourself. 07:04:37 You might need years of therapy. 07:05:20 WTF, with MondoMouse I can't enable Cmd-drag to resize, only Opt-Cmd and move mouse. 07:05:31 (or move, which is what I primarily want) 07:08:49 http://db.tidbits.com/article/10624 Uhh, wow. 07:09:11 Oh, it doesn't do the fun minimise effect promised. 07:09:13 How disappointing! 07:45:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:58:30 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:48 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:15:23 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 08:19:27 someone in here wrote a Befunge interpreter in sed, right? 08:19:36 * Rugxulo is vaguely curious how that would work, even if input is an issue 08:20:20 I wrote an incomplete one; I'm not sure if someone else wrote a more finished one. 08:22:50 I don't really remember the details, and my home desktop is off now, though. I don't think it did input, but it should be possible: just save all the interpreter "state" in the hold space when encountering ~ or &, and then have the main rules use the hold space to figure out where to continue, and the input for, well, the input. 08:23:39 I seem to think I had a reasonably clever way of manipulating the playfield, or at least to do get(x, y) on it, but I don't recall what that might've been. 08:23:43 has it been tested with non-GNU seds? (e.g. *BSD) 08:24:11 although in fairness, those are wimpy anyways, so you'd be lucky if it worked 08:25:15 No (as in, "no, it hasn't been tested"). And really, it was *very* incomplete; it was more of a collection of bits of groundwork for a Befunge interpreter. 08:25:50 I think there was a reasonable Brainfuck-in-sed though? Or maybe I'm mixing up with that brainfuck-to-ELF compiler which was written in sed. 08:26:15 Brainf***-to-ELF I found, haven't seen an interpreter for that 08:26:22 Maybe not, then. 08:26:24 there was an Unlambda interpreter though 08:26:41 heh, well sed is kinda the wrong tool for the job (but fun) ;-) 08:27:07 Perl is said to be a replacement for AWK and sed, but it goes way way way beyond that 08:27:23 I did some of our "introduction to imperative programming" course homework assignments with sed, for the fun. 08:27:25 if mtve was ever here, he could probably elaborate 08:28:03 sed is cool, definitely 08:28:26 but heck, if even AWK was only designed for one-liners mostly, then you know sed wasn't exactly meant for stuff like this ;-) 08:28:43 Arithmetics are a bit painful, yes. (Except with unary math, but that's a bit... memory-intensive.) 08:30:14 Also function calls. I think in one of the programs I did a rudimentary stack, where you could push return labels on to, with a huge "s///; t foo; s///; t bar;" dispatcher to return. 08:31:24 I had some sort of a hundred-line maybe-not-so-optimal decimal adder in one sed program. It's easier with binary, though; but then you have to either convert that for output, or just have the user read long bitstrings. 08:31:50 it's a bit complicated, I know 08:32:05 and 'D' never did what I wanted 08:32:57 There's also a lot of "t dummy; : dummy; s///; t foo" style code for branching, since t looks for any successful s instructions since the last t. 08:33:48 Early lunchtime now. → 08:34:01 (~10:34 local.) 08:34:40 2:34am here ;-) 08:35:02 -!- jix has joined. 08:35:28 some seds (GNU? I forget ...) support 'T' 08:37:15 can be vaguely useful sometimes 08:40:55 should i sleep or internet 08:41:12 are you tired? 08:41:36 i guess so! 08:41:46 if you're too tired, just sleep 08:41:52 (hard to think when tired anyways) 08:41:54 however: internets 08:41:59 they require no thought :P 08:42:06 (but sleep! but internets! but zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz huh what) 08:53:01 GNU has T, yes. 08:53:41 But "T foo" is simply a "t skip; b foo; : skip". 08:54:03 Given the amount of unnecessary verbosity sed imposes by default, that's not much of a hassle to write. 08:55:00 These 03am-written presentation slides make no sense to me, and I'll have to give the presentation in an hour. Well, maybe everyone else will be equally tired. 08:56:41 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:57:35 yawjn 08:58:42 drink a soda to pep you up 08:59:57 mmfbhgjkk 09:00:08 i hink that would surpass my meagre abilities 09:00:17 sleeping would be smart; i'ma trial it out 09:00:25 TRY BEFORE YOU DIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 09:00:27 -!- ehird has quit. 09:02:08 ;-) 09:28:28 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:40:27 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 10:02:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 10:25:38 when i was in the 6th grade or so, i had this habit of saying "in your dreams, motherfucker" to everyone, all the time. 10:25:44 feels great to share 10:45:30 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:04:26 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:23:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:37:08 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:46:14 -!- dbc has quit (robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:46:14 -!- Deewiant has quit (robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:46:36 -!- dbc has joined. 11:46:36 -!- Deewiant has joined. 12:03:36 Wow, that was one popular Master's thesis presentation. 12:03:50 There were something like 30 people there. 13:01:34 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 13:13:45 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:24:33 wait didn't you present yours like ages ago 13:25:49 His was not the only Master's thesis presentation 13:26:43 well he gave *some* presentation 13:27:01 or do you mean the earlier one wasn't his 13:33:06 I mean this one wasn't his 13:34:31 right k, then i guess it was a coincidence 13:35:01 (the presentation) 13:47:40 This one wasn't mine, yes. I just was there to listen, since it was advertised so well. 13:48:07 --- 13:48:09 I just wanted to add that I will present lots of pretty pictures, and 13:48:09 no formulas or boring technical details, so attending my presentation 13:48:09 today is an excellent alternative to actual research work, 13:48:09 administration and most other activities you normally get paid for 13:48:09 around here! (I mean the things you get paid for, not what you 13:48:09 actually do. I don't know if I can compete with the best flash games, 13:48:11 but I'll do my best.) 13:48:13 --- 14:06:37 almost makes me book the train tickets even though it's already over 14:15:22 -!- kar8nga has quit (robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:15:22 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:15:22 -!- Cerise has quit (robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:19:31 -!- kar8nga has joined. 14:28:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:38:17 (1(00)*1|((0|1(00)*01)(11|10(00)*01)*(0|10(00)*1)))* 14:42:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:52:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:55:00 * ais523 is confused 14:55:06 my Evolution calendar has reappeared 14:58:38 it's the end times! 14:58:42 (see topic) 14:59:32 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:02:11 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:16:16 oerjan, iwc 15:16:28 mhm 15:29:59 oh and hi ais523 15:30:10 hi 15:32:57 -!- coppro has quit ("I am leaving. You are about to explode."). 15:36:46 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:44:30 ais523, started coding on the feather implementation? 15:45:06 not yet 15:45:12 I'm planning to but haven't got around to it 15:45:36 right. 15:48:22 * FireFly would like to have one :D 15:48:38 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:50:42 hmm... Feather's the only language I know in which you have to worry about portability within a program 15:53:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:54:21 heh 15:54:40 because the interpreter might change beneath you 15:56:31 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 16:06:04 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:13:19 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:19:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:20:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:32:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:37:36 -!- jix has joined. 16:43:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:52:24 -!- Jerry_ has joined. 16:52:24 -!- Jerry_ has changed nick to Cerise. 16:52:54 -!- Cerise has changed nick to Guest5773. 16:53:32 -!- Guest5773 has changed nick to Cerise. 17:22:02 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 17:24:14 -!- Zombie_Will has quit ("Do you like zombies? How about zombie games? Come join ##zombie and visit www.zombieexperiment.com to help us design a zombie). 17:26:01 -!- Rugxulo` has joined. 17:28:24 -!- Rugxulo` has quit (Client Quit). 17:28:34 -!- Rugxulo` has joined. 17:35:16 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:42:53 -!- Rugxulo has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:48:45 -!- Rugxulo` has changed nick to Rugxulo. 17:57:36 -!- augur has joined. 18:06:56 to ehird when he joins: the power supply on my thinkpad turned out to be too weak to both charge the battery and sustain a heavy load (both cores at 95% or more, 3D graphics). It could sustain the load itself (so the battery didn't discharge, but nor did it charge) 18:07:09 since he was considering a thinkpad he may be interested in this 18:07:20 old battery? 18:07:34 Rugxulo, computer bought this year, augusyt 18:07:37 august* 18:07:40 and was brand new then 18:07:41 or you just mean it can't run and charge at the same time 18:07:43 so unlikely 18:07:54 Rugxulo, can't run heavy load and charge it at same time indeed 18:07:58 okay 18:08:04 works fine with light load 18:08:14 my laptop (6 cell battery) gets max (!) 2 hours, and only then on "Power Saver" :-/ 18:08:36 oh and for reference wlan was turned off while doing this. Was using ethernet 18:08:39 (each core halved speed) 18:08:41 and wlan seems to use more 18:08:49 i wish mine lasted 2h 18:09:03 Rugxulo, mine last 2 hours 50 minutes with light load 18:09:07 ondemand scheduler 18:09:08 wifi, usb, etc. all use power, turn off all unnecessary stuff 18:09:22 bluetooth is almost always off for me 18:09:35 since I don't use it a lot 18:09:41 wlan however I do use quite a bit 18:09:53 Rugxulo, and turning off usb? huh? 18:10:08 well I can't realistically, since some internal devices show up on the usb bus 18:10:09 I mean don't leave unnecessary USB devices plugged in 18:10:15 for example the bluetooth thingy 18:10:30 Rugxulo, oh right, I almost never use any usb devices with it 18:10:42 exception is sometimes at home when I plug in the printer 18:10:52 for mouse at home I use desktop + synergy 18:12:17 what OS do you use? some are better at power than others 18:13:53 Rugxulo, on the laptop? Ubuntu x86_64 18:14:04 because arch didn't work very well 18:14:12 and I had no time to dig into those issues 18:14:15 I needed it to just work 18:14:20 only reason I use ubuntu 18:14:26 9.04? 18:14:39 yes 18:14:44 I'm going for stable 18:14:58 I tried XUbuntu 8.04.1 the other day, mainly for DOSEMU testing, seemed okay 18:15:09 9.10 will be out soon (this month) 18:16:49 Rugxulo, how long after that will 9.04 be supported? 18:16:56 I hope at least a month or so 18:19:25 I dunno 18:19:28 * AnMaster is annoyed he has to choose whenever to run that heavy load or get the computer charged for tomorrow (will need it then...) 18:19:44 8.04 is LTS, I think, hence it's still supported 18:19:45 and the desktop is just a bit too old when it comes to CPU 18:21:48 9.04 should be supported for a while, though, I'd imagine 18:21:59 even Fedora is supported until two versions later 18:25:26 AnMaster: that's why nights were invented 18:25:47 for recharging. 18:27:09 oklokok, except when I get up tomorrow I need to catch the bus very early on. thus having no time to pack my backpack 18:27:26 can't bring the plug with you? 18:28:16 you wake up, and start running? i mean if you even put clothes on, the time to throw the comp in the bag will not dominate. 18:28:50 can't bring the plug with you? <-- sure, but not the wall socket 18:29:16 yeah, the house was built *before* laptops were invented and/or common 18:29:21 (technically you probably could take the socket!) 18:29:23 thus not having a lot of outlets 18:29:26 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:29:28 oklokok: but it wouldn't provide electricity 18:29:39 yes, that's the "joke" 18:29:45 game theory is hard. 18:29:45 ais523, it would if I had a 20 km extension cable! 18:30:15 oklokok, calculating limits is even harder.... *sigh* 18:30:22 eh 18:30:31 with epsilons? 18:31:17 anyway that's noobie stuff 18:31:18 oklokok, the teacher said that was outside the scope of this module (iirc that is the English term).. 18:31:35 so yeah from standard values and figuring it out. 18:31:47 standard values? 18:31:54 oklokok, as in "known basic ones" 18:32:22 like you know what the trig functions are for pi/2, pi/4 and pi/6 is 18:32:30 (well the three basic ones that is) 18:33:14 lim_{x->0} (x/x) = lim_{x->0} 1 HEY NOW IT DOESN'T DIVIDE BY X YAY I HAS LIMITS 18:33:29 ^ do you do that stuff 18:34:04 if you don't do epsilons, you probably don't have a definition for limits, basically you have no idea what you're doing. 18:34:44 \[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}\frac{x-x^{2}}{x^{2}+1}\] 18:34:49 if you have time over... 18:35:10 lim_{x->0} (x/x) = lim_{x->0} 1 HEY NOW IT DOESN'T DIVIDE BY X YAY I HAS LIMITS <-- sounds similar 18:35:59 for (x-x^2)/(1+x^2), without epsilons, you should go HEY THOSE X AND 1 LOOK REALLY SMALL THEY PROBABLY DON'T AFFECT ONCE YOU PUT THE NUMBER INFINITE IN PLACE 18:36:02 oklokok, also he defined it with epsilon... just said that calculating with that was outside the scope of this module. Would be more of that during this spring iirc. 18:36:15 oklokok, quite... 18:36:24 so it's -1 18:36:40 oklokok, actually I think you are supposed to somehow get rid of x^2 first 18:36:47 okay 18:36:56 then divide both the denominator and the numerator by something 18:37:01 by factorising and getting x^(-2) and such 18:37:16 to make it look different 18:37:18 seems to get the right answer more often too 18:38:56 though it seems rewriting it as \[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}1-\frac{x}{x^{2}+1}\] is simpler. Maybe 18:39:17 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 18:39:17 meh 18:39:27 that needs some more parentheses 18:39:44 \[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}\left(1-\frac{x}{x^{2}+1}\right)\] 18:41:29 one way: (x-x^2)/(1+x^2)-(-1) = (x-x^2+1+x^2)/(1+x^2) = (x+1)/(1+x^2) and notice the bottom is of a greater degree 18:41:48 other way: divide both den and num by x^2, to get stuff like 1+(1/x) 18:42:07 all 1/P(x) clearly go to 0 when degree of P > 0 18:42:59 oklokok, the issue is, you should get the same answer through both methods 18:43:04 when you don't, something went wrong 18:43:12 ... 18:43:25 yeah, limits are unique in R 18:43:31 good point 18:43:41 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 18:45:03 also what kind of a uni does limits informally 18:45:21 although maybe our dumbed down math does that too, dunno 18:45:32 we have separate courses for the less fortunate 18:45:33 oklopol, depends on what you are studying 18:45:46 I mean, math or something else that *uses* math 18:46:04 like computer science. 18:47:06 i understand they might want to skip proofs, but skipping definitions is just plain cheating 18:48:58 oklopol, also the answer should be that the limit above goes to either + or - infinity, otherwise the answer in the book (which is the oblique asymptote (english term taken from wikipedia, lets hope it is the correct translation) when x→inf wouldn't exist, at least as far as we were told) 18:49:14 and somehow I get it to -1 18:49:21 what 18:49:28 the limit is -1, as i said 18:49:42 hm indeed 18:49:57 think about lim_{x->inf} 1, clearly it isn't + or - inf 18:49:58 doh... reading on wrong line 18:51:12 for each e > 0 you need to find some point in the series after which no deviation > e happens from the limit; the limit is 1, because for any e > 0, the whole sequence stays within (1-e, 1+e) 18:51:16 because it's constant 18:51:43 to be precise 18:52:41 anyway, believe it or not, i consider game theory harder than your homework problems 18:56:18 oklopol, yeah probably 18:56:29 oklopol, example? 18:58:25 wait a mo 19:00:30 hmm, okay pasting from a pdf to pb.vjn.fi doesn't really work that well, but actually this looks roughly as scrambled in the book 19:00:30 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p315154346.txt 19:00:59 oklopol, ok that is plain unreadable 19:01:17 yes, pdf's are evil 19:01:36 oklopol, I thought game theory involved mostly combinatorics and probability and such? 19:01:44 I can't tell from that pdf though 19:01:50 or paste of pdf rather 19:02:11 most of game theory involves games ;) 19:03:02 the book is mostly about different kinds of solutions 19:03:15 solution/equilibrium concepts 19:03:49 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:03:59 most of game theory involves games ;) <-- well yeah, but the tools include combinatorics and probability right? 19:04:10 rationalizability is one of the weaker ones, where a move/strategy is created from scratch based on the assumption that all other players are infinitely intelligent, and knowledge about the game 19:05:10 the "infinitely intelligent" part means infinite sequences of sets, the notation gets so goddamn hairy 19:05:10 oklopol, interpreting that paste may require infinitely intelligence too... So I guess it is intended for those who move in those circles ;P 19:05:51 oklopol, and yeah 19:30:40 Hee, I implemented a simplified DEFLATE variant in that rfk86 port. (It does the normal LZ77 encoding, but doesn't use the fancy code-length dual-wielded-Huffman thing to store the trees; and it compresses each -- very short -- message separately, so the compression ratios are a lot less, but that's the price you pay for being able to uncompress each separately without uncompressing the whole data stream. The TI-86 is not an especially fast machine.) 19:31:34 You should do it in 20 blocks or something 19:31:50 Probably, but that's such a hassle. 19:32:05 How much space does the current scheme save? 19:33:08 The 86p file (which has few bytes of headers) went from 23685 bytes to 16766 bytes, which is at least something. (Plus that's with an animated exit splash screen added.) 19:33:12 fizzie, coding in asm for it? 19:33:33 AnMaster: Like I said to Deewiant, you don't get a fancy grayscale introduction splash screen with TI-Basic. :p 19:33:35 That's still quite a lot of K 19:33:46 fizzie, didn't see you mention that 19:34:06 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:34:13 fizzie, also what does the program do? 19:34:25 It's a robotfindskitten port. 19:34:34 It.. you know, finds kitten. 19:34:46 Deewiant: Yes, but it doesn't compress *that* much with "real" DEFLATE either. 19:34:47 fizzie, haven't played that game 19:34:55 fis@eris:~/src/rfk86$ ./messages.pl 19:34:55 Uncompressed message data: 19454 bytes 19:34:55 LZ77 with trivial encoding: 18708 bytes 19:34:55 LZ77 with Huffman (w/o trees): 11685 bytes 19:34:55 LZ77 with Huffman (raw trees): 12236 bytes 19:34:56 LZ77 with Huffman (no dist tree): 12209 bytes 19:35:58 fizzie, isn't deflate basically gzip? 19:35:58 Meh 19:36:12 Can you link to it again? 19:36:25 Deewiant: The new version is not in the URL I used. 19:36:32 fizzie, also how would you do grayscale? 19:36:36 it is on/off 19:36:44 fizzie: But I presume messages.txt is unchanged? That's all I want 19:37:06 Deewiant: Oh, right. http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/rfk86/ if I remember right. 19:37:12 I'll put up a "project page" for it at zem.fi when I get that power supply. 19:37:15 Quite right, cheers 19:37:41 7z a -tgzip -mx=9 does 18866 -> 8963 bytes here to messages.txt. 19:37:46 fizzie, how do you do that grayscal!? 19:37:48 scale* 19:38:41 AnMaster: It's done by flickering two frames; the screen response times are so slow it doesn't really look flickery at all. 19:38:49 heh 19:39:48 Typically you stick in an interrupt handler which flips screens so that frame 1 is shown for two timer interrupts, and frame 2 for one; that way you get a nice 4-level greyscale. 19:39:49 my first programmable calculator had something like 106 bytes of memory 19:40:11