< 1253491772 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1253491774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I think about Underload instruction minimisation < 1253491779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way as BF instruction minimisation < 1253491835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::*^!~aS < 1253491857 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253491883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: cannot be dropped, nor can * or ^ < 1253491935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as far as being expressed by the others is concerned, at least < 1253491950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a and S < 1253491981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! seems unlikely. maybe you could manage to sweep things down instead... < 1253492007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think any of them are redundant < 1253492153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253492299 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253492305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: () is redundant < 1253492331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& (for want of a better name) is simpler < 1253492352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean one taking only one character? < 1253492354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is: pushes the last command executed to the stack, quoted < 1253492357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, simpler < 1253492360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a regular command < 1253492367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have one piece of global state that you assign with one line < 1253492382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 proved that this can do everything () can < 1253492409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as you don't want to print non-command characters < 1253492416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253492426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's remove output, it makes things easier to minimize; this is tarpitting after all < 1253492444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253492449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ swap < 1253492451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: duplicate < 1253492452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! discard < 1253492457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* concatenate < 1253492465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& push last command executed, quoted < 1253492467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a enclose < 1253492469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ run < 1253492484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you might get rid of ! with some global rewriting in cps style, or something < 1253492486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is the most complex, but simpler than () in both implementation and syntax < 1253492489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about equal in semantics < 1253492496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly simpler as you can leave non-command characters undefined < 1253492511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let's make & , instead < 1253492516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's so common, it might as well drop out < 1253492522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ', which is a quote < 1253492522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ' < 1253492553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to push each command: < 1253492565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :()()~'{dip !} < 1253492567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does '' do? :D < 1253492568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip being the hard part < 1253492575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's dip in underload again? < 1253492592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically, in your interpreter loop, after the switch for the command, do lastcmd=thischar; < 1253492596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is ' < 1253492600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~a*^ i think < 1253492603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do a fancy loop, you get the last thing executed there < 1253492619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a variable declaration, one unconditional assignment and one trivial extra command < 1253492663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, first one done < 1253492670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to push ~, ()()~'()!':*~a*^ < 1253492672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1253492676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have () < 1253492681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1253492687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there was one extra thing < 1253492691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack starts out with () on it < 1253492696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253492700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better alternative is to say that the stack has an infinite number of ()s on the bottom < 1253492713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also handles things like the standalone program : < 1253492731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, to push ~, assuming initial stack: < 1253492749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~' < 1253492754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy :D < 1253492770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course you have to carry the () around with you, but iirc ais provided direct translations of every non-output instruction < 1253492776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, simple text replacement < 1253492789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253492823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happily, everything is now foo' on an empty stack which Just Works, even '' < 1253492835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you need something before to be defined, which is reasonable < 1253492842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case !'' < 1253492858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have a hunch that ! and * can be combined < 1253492870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253492903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we could rewrite dip without ~, we'd need no swap < 1253492909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that takes the top 3 on stack < 1253492918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top 3 sounds inelegant < 1253492920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combines two and drops one < 1253492923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1253492936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more like, < 1253492952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)% = ((foo)) < 1253492958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1253492964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need a put-back instruction < 1253492964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1253492973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)(bar)% = ((foo))(bar)^ < 1253492976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1253492979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)(bar)% = ((foo))bar < 1253492986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, say < 1253492990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how to drop < 1253492992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1253493000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to drop the extraneous ((foo)) after < 1253493001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1253493017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is a required? < 1253493028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253493051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: [)]*[(]~* < 1253493051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1253493053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am evil. < 1253493058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also adds unbalanced output!) < 1253493084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1253493129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, apart from ', which i think is a simplification, and dropping S, this is hard < 1253493204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe ^ could be simplified if we... holy fuck < 1253493210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify the data stack and the code. < 1253493216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's mind, verily, blows
< 1253493231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we could remove ^. < 1253493241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if it's actually possible to < 1253493244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to some degree ^ does nothing but move the top element of data to code < 1253493249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1253493252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so abolish data < 1253493254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we operate on code < 1253493281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, then ^ becomes the inverse of a < 1253493305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo), stack/code is (separated by <>): (foo) < 1253493306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already is, one way < 1253493316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stack/code is (separated by <>): foo<>^ < 1253493319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, well < 1253493328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ^ shouldn't be there < 1253493330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stack/code is (separated by <>): foo < 1253493335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, error! < 1253493336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253493358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog: ((foo)^)^ < 1253493376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((foo)^), stk/cd (sep <>): ((foo)^)<>^ < 1253493401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stk/cd (sep <>): (foo)<>^ < 1253493406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo), stk/cd (sep <>): (foo)<>^ < 1253493412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stk/cd (sep <>): foo < 1253493413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, error < 1253493418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think this could actually work < 1253493487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels ugly though < 1253493497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why? before we had two stacks, code and data < 1253493506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is simply removing a concept and that's it < 1253493511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's wonderfully metacircular < 1253493531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go write it up ;) < 1253493566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i'm just minimizin' here < 1253493578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hatin' < 1253493606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not hatin', just lazyin' < 1253493637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is < 1253493638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this tc? < 1253493644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try and run the traditional loop < 1253493649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^):^ < 1253493667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^), stk/cd (sep <>): (:^)<>:<>^ < 1253493678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1253493682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to be executing the top item at all times < 1253493687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog (:^):^ < 1253493707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial stk/cd ^<>:<>(:^) < 1253493718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253493723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is avoiding an infinite loop there < 1253493724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1253493738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (foo)'s semantics, I believe, are "move this (foo) down one in the stack" < 1253493754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)bar is bar<>(foo), and when executed it becomes (foo)<>bar < 1253493758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bar operates on the (foo) below it < 1253493765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah? < 1253493797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're aware that (:^):^ _is_ an infinite loop? ;) < 1253493841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know < 1253493850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realised how (foo) should work < 1253493851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1253493856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog (:^):^ < 1253493864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial stk/cd ^<>:<>(:^) < 1253493882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^), new stk/cd: ^<>(:^)<>: < 1253493898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::, new stk/cd: ^<>(:^)<>(:^) < 1253493899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-oh < 1253493909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think every command has to move stuff out of the way, which is irritating < 1253493924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the semantics are save second-top from us at beginning, pop it off; push it to top after we've done our stuff < 1253494041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically the stack is equivalent to its elements being a'd and prepended to the code < 1253494099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can just skip everything of (...) form to find the real next command < 1253494194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this messes with getting rid of () < 1253494356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if * shouldn't be what ~* is now < 1253494370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, skipping like that sucks; code should be executed from the top, as-is imo < 1253494388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253494405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ~* seems damn common < 1253494413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however even with ~* as primitive i'm not sure you can do ~ < 1253494413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly * has more elegance < 1253494421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, ~ < 1253494468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you still have no way to apply a to the bottom one before combining, if you don't have ~ < 1253494479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant < 1253494482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set * = ~* < 1253494483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253494486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is more elegant < 1253494493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253494523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :face it, underload is _hard_ to improve < 1253494532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially on elegance < 1253494536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is incredibly elegant. < 1253494540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a masterwork < 1253494550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253494556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we could reduce it to () + one command < 1253494567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a mammoth inelegant command looking at 9485345 values on the stack < 1253494573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253494600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253494607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ and ! can easily be combined < 1253494612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard first element, swap rest < 1253494617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ! is ()combine < 1253494622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap rest two that is < 1253494636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard first element, concatenate second two, swap last two < 1253494640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you mean ~ is ()combine < 1253494645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, right < 1253494659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is ()~()~combine < 1253494665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253494669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253494672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to pop afterwards :D < 1253494678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine()combine < 1253494682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1253494696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can we squeeze enclose second element in there? < 1253494738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is when you want the combination to be two unenclosed things appended < 1253494759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1253494772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard 1, enclose 2, cat 3&4, swap 5&6 < 1253494783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1253494810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how do you extract the commands from that... < 1253494817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253494823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway with that it'd just be that+()+^+S < 1253494828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253494835 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253494839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard 1, enclose 2, output 3, cat 4&5, swap 6&7 < 1253494842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was obvious < 1253494847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(output also discards obvs) < 1253494854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that+()+^ < 1253494858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure you can combine ^ into it < 1253494886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run 0 at some point < 1253494895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm, 1 = TOS < 1253494898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my system < 1253494900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that confusing? < 1253494924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just shifted it so i didn't have to repeat the next < 1253494936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253494945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the rest < 1253494959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cat 4&5 after output refer to elements after the output ofc < 1253494966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., when we drop we stitll use the same numbering < 1253494968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious but < 1253494969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1253494982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run 0, discard 1, enclose 2, output 3, cat 4&5, swap 6&7 < 1253494995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first person to extract all the commands from that wins a cookie < 1253495013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called either # or @, the most ... full ASCII characters. < 1253495174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... you're forgetting anything to do with : < 1253495189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true < 1253495195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253495213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth thinking about until i know those commands can be extracted... < 1253495246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect there needs to be some tinkering about with the order of things to ensure you can extract < 1253496214 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253496783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253496837 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253498786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253499312 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253500748 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253502467 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old is ehird now? < 1253502487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 and a bit < 1253502537 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1253502544 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenabouts was he born? < 1253502565 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just subtract two from my age whenever I want to get his? < 1253502579 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps I can say he's my little brother's age. < 1253502685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his birthday was a month or two ago iirc < 1253502793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hazard a guess that you can indeed subtract a rather accurate constant, unless space travel picks up considerably < 1253504853 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a bit younger than my little brother. < 1253504870 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear little brother: Please overachieve. Love, Warrigal. < 1253507632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253507644 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253509954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253510156 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253510738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253510856 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253512647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253512934 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253512939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253513168 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253513836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253513975 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253514531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1253515554 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253517543 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253517560 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1253519676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the interweb speeds here at work make me a bit envious; I just fetched a 695 MiB Ubuntu image at an average speed of 28.1 MiB/s; that's about 236 Mbps. At home it's something like a fifteenth of that, and even that to one direction only. < 1253519805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fifteenth of that is still relatively fast < 1253519833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but a puny trickle compared to the datavalanche here. < 1253519999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253520000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253522492 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d901be@gateway/web/freenode/x-udumwhwbttanbwxu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253524999 0 :Warrigal_!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253524999 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253525169 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253525226 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253526713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253527422 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253528776 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253535991 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253536101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253540556 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253544652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "datavalanche" ← very nice word < 1253544667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how long did it take? < 1253544695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, that would be gbit ethernet at work plus a very good uplink < 1253544724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the wget visible any more, but based on those numbers something like 25 seconds. < 1253544743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets assume you got theoretical max for calculating that... It means 28.1 MB/s is 224.4 Mbit/s ? < 1253544758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means quite an awesome fiber connection I bet < 1253544763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that you work! < 1253544768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to work there too certainly < 1253544770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28.1 MiB/s, so 236 Mbit/s. < 1253544800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28.1*8 == 224.8 says my calculator < 1253544809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I always use base 1024 for MB and Mbit < 1253544818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I maintain that what I said above was correct < 1253544835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telecomms people pretty much only use the non-binary mega in Mbps figures. < 1253544860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's still the same university. < 1253544888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you probably got a bit less than theoretical max. (other users, network overhead, latency + tcp having to wait for confirmation and so on...) So maybe 250 Mbit/s? < 1253544891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1253544898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their uplink that is < 1253544907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes < 1253544930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what mirror was it btw? < 1253544962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative explanation: University happens to host a mirror and you got a quite mediocre speed in those conditions < 1253544962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was nic.funet.fi (well, fi.archive.ubuntu.com, but that's the same thing), so it's sort-of part of the same network, if you count the whole Funet -- http://www.csc.fi/english/institutions/funet -- as a one network. < 1253544977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not local to our university, but not too far away. < 1253545009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m7a43072e -- not too many hops. < 1253545017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't that give higher latency to the rest of the internet, I mean you have to pass through some central router from this network I guess < 1253545040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that explains a bit of it < 1253545090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes. Though it should be pretty fast to other nordunet university networks, there's a 10-gigabit uplink that way. < 1253545100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nordunet? < 1253545103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that same as funet? < 1253545132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNET is a member of NORDUnet. < 1253545142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NORDUnet covers? < 1253545166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNET, SUNET, the Norway/Denmark equivalents, maybe something else < 1253545169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nordic countries"; I'm looking for the explicit list. < 1253545181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORDUnet < 1253545185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253545187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland as well, evidently. < 1253545212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah SUNET. But I don't remember my tracepath to uni (for some reason I can't even tracepath/traceroute a single hop away from UNI) went like tele2 -> telia for one or two jumps -> sunet < 1253545220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alcatel-Lucent and IPNETT has completed the 40 Gbit/s upgrade of the first link of NORDUnet's optical and IP transport network, which provides the Nordic infrastructure for research and education. Preparing the move to 100 Gbit/s, this network upgrade will further support new application enablement for universities and scientists in the Nordics and strengthen international collaborative environment." That sounds pretty fast. < 1253545236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though today it seems to go straight from tele2 to sunet < 1253545243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also buzzwordy. "Enablement", especially. < 1253545250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel very enablementy today. < 1253545266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/FUNET_backbone.svg < 1253545285 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253545386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, those colours doesn't quite match the text... < 1253545402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-21 17:03:12 (27.2 MB/s) - `tmp.exe' saved [108279664/108279664] < 1253545415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How not? < 1253545433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff going to denmark is violet kind of thing, and it says 20 gbit/s, but in the legend that colour is listed as 1 gbit/s or 622 mbit/s < 1253545451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That tmp.exe was a hundred-megabyte DirectX thing from Microsoft's download system; that should be further away, but still 27.2 MiB/s. < 1253545463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so good uplink too < 1253545465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lighter purple, and as you say it says it's 20 Gbit/s so it's not messed up anyway < 1253545484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lighter? I blame bad laptop^Wnotebook screen then < 1253545492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at other angles there is no difference < 1253545493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Went through Sweden, it seems. < 1253545505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things do. < 1253545511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1253545518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was a reply to fizzie < 1253545528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, it is so our FRA can log you :P < 1253545538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously!) < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was some talk years ago about Sonera relocating mail servers of Finnish customers away from Sweden because of that. < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.153711 < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a year and a bit ago. < 1253545619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprised < 1253545692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to FUNET_backbone.svg, the Internet is in Denmark. < 1253545706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs as a file about MSDNAA opens in open office
< 1253545721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and every other file at uni so far has been *.pdf not *.doc < 1253545823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the terms and conditions for it, but can't < 1253545826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1253545853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "machine learning: basic principles" course assistant complained (at lunch) that people have been submitting just about everything, even though the instructions clearly say "single PDF file containing solutions to all questions"; there have been zipped up folders of separate files, Word documents, postscript files, postscript files renamed to .pdf, and even one PDF file named ".pdf" which was quite a clever trick, what with not showing up in ls listings. < 1253545996 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253546019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a fancy Funet status graph at http://www.csc.fi/funet/status/tools/wm < 1253546144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on those line widths (although they are a bit unclear) it looks as if nowadays there are 10G uplinks from both Espoo and Helsinki to NORDUnet, and the link between those two is 10G too. < 1253546371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Espoo on that < 1253546413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"postscript files renamed to .pdf" <-- wonderful < 1253546426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same goes for .pdf < 1253546443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The csc one, I think. < 1253546462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a similar graph of the NORDUnet backbone at http://stats.nordu.net/stat-q/load-map/ndn-map,,traffic,peak if you like looking at the rainbow-like colours. < 1253546464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does the text in the pic mean < 1253546471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is English < 1253546494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and the colours are for percentages of what? < 1253546534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Percentages of maximum capacity for peak use during a day, or something like that. < 1253546591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* = rented traffic capacity" and "other connections owned [by FUNET]: DWDM/CWDM/black fiber" are those labels in the lower-left corner. < 1253546659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, apparently "dark fiber" is the proper English term. < 1253546671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm can't see anywhere that it states you aren't allowed to use linux + wine + MSDNAA apps or such < 1253546673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"black" would've been the literal translation, though. < 1253546675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or virtualbox < 1253546679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so seems safe enough < 1253546742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you use it for study-related purposes; I think there was some sort of general condition for that. < 1253546761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it says non-commercial < 1253546785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows client operating systems obtained as part of the Developer AA program may not be used only as a terminal for accessing a UNIX telnet server" < 1253546789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well no issue. < 1253546797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to use ssh anyway < 1253546798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I need it < 1253546836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm: < 1253546846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The underlying Microsoft Windows desktop operating system may only be installed on new or replacement PCs acquired without an operating system for exclusive use by students or faculty enrolled in or employed by the member Department or organization; it is not transferable and must be removed if the PC is transferred." < 1253546872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn. Well, I can't quite remember what terms there might've been. I just seem to recall something vague about the "only related to studies" thing. < 1253547002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it says to activate I have to send a mail from my student mail to a specific internal address. Says nothing about subject or such. < 1253547026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to ask about terms and conditions in the mail though. If it is auto-processed, it isn't my fault. < 1253547028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't called "developer AA" back then anyway, they might've rewritten parts of the terms. < 1253547068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember this one: "You may not use the software: -- to develop and maintain your own administrative or IT systems." < 1253547079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so awfully vague. < 1253547090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there are different variants, one that basically seems to be for arts students too < 1253547159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that virtualization thing explicitly, though: "You may also install such products in virtual machine environments so long as these virtual machines are (a) used according to these terms, and (b) run on machines owned or leased by you and/or students." < 1253547179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well owned would be correct. < 1253547275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the vagueness in "You may not use the software -- to develop and maintain your own administrative or IT systems" comes from the fact that I instinctively read that 'you' as, you know, myself, when in fact the "you" here is the university department. < 1253547491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gone for a while now.) < 1253547738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for now I sent a mail to the IT support asking about what specific edition of the MSDNAA program is used here < 1253547841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when apt-get update prints "Ign" or "Hit", what do those mean < 1253547863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is probably "Ignore" < 1253547873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but what do they mean in this context < 1253547911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the context < 1253547911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything in man page < 1253547916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, apt-get update... < 1253547921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used apt-get < 1253547927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which updates the list of packages in the repos < 1253547934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pacman -Sy < 1253547968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when does it print that stuff then? < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security/universe Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security/multiverse Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty/main Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty/restricted Packages < 1253547990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1253548009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those extra whitespaces at end, odd copy didn't strip that < 1253548085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it print anything other than those? < 1253548091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than Ign/Hit, I mean < 1253548122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at the end it prints: < 1253548128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading package lists... Done < 1253548134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that no < 1253548140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, does it ever print anything other than Ign or Hit when you do an update < 1253548162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there is some change it prints also something like: Fetched 28.9kB in 3s (8912B/s) < 1253548168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before the "Reading package lists..." < 1253548178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it prints a total of 91 Ign/Hit lines < 1253548181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1253548185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wc -l < 1253548187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most are "Hit" < 1253548204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes in case of new stuff it also prints: < 1253548206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess Hit is just that it checked that package list < 1253548207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get:4 http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security Release [14.2kB] < 1253548211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1253548211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Get < 1253548213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah < 1253548216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after the Hit line < 1253548223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so the hit line is still there < 1253548224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit = checked package list, no changes < 1253548228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1253548230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit = checked package list < 1253548232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Ign < 1253548237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get = got something < 1253548240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign = didn't check package list < 1253548257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well those extra repos it ignores are listed as "I want these" < 1253548262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't make sense < 1253548305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run apt-get update again, do you get all Ign? < 1253548312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no < 1253548324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, full output from http://pastebin.ca/1574011 from updating in a 32-bit chroot I use for cross compiling < 1253548334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case Hit could've meant that something changed upstream but not necessarily anything interesting to you < 1253548352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see there too, since nothing relevant changed, or apt-get upgrade would have said so < 1253548364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it would have upgraded the packages < 1253548372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why would it say hit just half a minute later again < 1253548374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ALL those < 1253548379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit unlikely < 1253548386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Googling suggests that Ign may mean a 404 < 1253548404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok that is strange, I tried google too < 1253548411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then Hit = 200 < 1253548421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or 3xx I guess) < 1253548490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-updates/universe Packages < 1253548491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1253548505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/jaunty-updates/universe/binary-i386/ exists and contains Packages < 1253548524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, run with extra max verbosity or something < 1253548555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -V Show verbose version numbers < 1253548557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thm < 1253548558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm* < 1253548573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no change, guess it is just for package upgrades/installs < 1253548628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find any "more verbose option" apart from that < 1253548632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is -q and -qq < 1253548699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q makes it loggable, so it doesn't use progress bars and such, and -qq makes it output errors only < 1253548822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is -o for "set any configuration option" guess I will try to find a list of thosr < 1253548824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those* < 1253550211 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253550601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people actually write VLIW asm < 1253550608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, what does it look like < 1253550612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they must, for stuff in kernel and such < 1253552182 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-170-173.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552212 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1253552544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253552550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to sort out university for this year
< 1253552559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently my course lasts a maximum of 4 years and a minimum of 6 years < 1253552571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and until I pointed it out, nobody saw a problem with this < 1253552581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err... < 1253552599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that mean "everyone thought that was normal" or "no one noticed the typo"? < 1253552617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253552621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's that nobody had looked at both stats simultaneously < 1253552639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 75% part-time PhD lasts 4 years (that's what I'm doing), if it had been 50% part-time it would last 6 years < 1253552647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where the spurious 6-year figure seems to have come from < 1253552666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253552677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the topic of the PhD? < 1253552694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware synthesis from high-level languages < 1253552699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah still that? < 1253552702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, higher level than VHDL, anyway < 1253552940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that add/remove thing under the program menu in ubuntu sucks a bit: < 1253552961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for RTS in the games section turns upp stuff like "Alien Blaster is a classic 2D shoot 'em up..." < 1253552963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253552972 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even imagine how that matched RTS < 1253552992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh point and click adventures turn up too for that term < 1253553004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turned based stratergy, at least that is closer < 1253553032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual RTSes though, not even the ones I know exist in the repos < 1253553044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete and utter fail < 1253553121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better luck looking in /usr/portage/games-stratergy on gentoo, at least you only get turn based and real time ones, instead of getting completely unrelated arcade, board game,s side scrollers and what not < 1253553132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo has a lot fewer games though < 1253553234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: add/remove is a rather dumbed-down interface < 1253553239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use apt-cache search instead < 1253553243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command-line stuff tends to work better < 1253553259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, harder to read. < 1253553263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially apt-cache < 1253553268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe it through less < 1253553269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or grep < 1253553280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not like that... I mean, at least gentoo has eix which has nice colour coded output < 1253553284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nicely formatted < 1253553342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while apt-cache search RTS lists lots of unrelated stuff too < 1253553360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache search --help isn't useful either < 1253553386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and this matches descriptions or tags I hope? < 1253553394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not just looking for packages *named* RTS < 1253553407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, descriptions < 1253553427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe games don't call themselves "RTS", but "real time strategy"? < 1253553437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stuff like "foobar is a 3D RTS which takes place in a post nuclear dystopian setting" < 1253553445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tried that too < 1253553481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives a few hits, but those I know about and I'm pretty sure it is missing some < 1253553540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, the website of the one new I found just give php errors, it looks interesting in google cache though < 1253553548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal error: Out of memory (allocated 2883584) (tried to allocate 311296 bytes) in /home/glob2/public_html/wiki/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php on line 811 < 1253553570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what... 304 kb? < 1253553601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2816 kb before < 1253553616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, mediawiki is bloated < 1253553631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it needs several MB to display a page < 1253553645 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact, mediawiki parser sucks < 1253553674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch it wants even more boost fail libs < 1253553688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libboost-thread1.34.1 this time < 1253553722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ubuntu package is as usual way outdated < 1253553744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what was there to parse for going to a damn image page -_- < 1253553766 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image page? :S < 1253553779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't be a lot < 1253553785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and main page gave same < 1253553788 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253553829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: what version of MediaWiki? < 1253553834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they replaced the parser a couple of versions ago < 1253553840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one that isn't nearly as hackish < 1253553861 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure, maybe older than 1.10? < 1253553874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that'll be the old parser then < 1253553906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly what I imagined, but doesn't seem bad as such < 1253553925 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my server run several copies of mediawiki and they are becoming huge bottle neck... :S < 1253553957 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the point that ordinary bot can present practical DDoS attack to the wiki) < 1253554014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: even one copy of MediaWiki was enough to crash ehird's slice a while ago < 1253554050 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1253554334 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, esotope-bfc would become a topic of my bachelor's thesis. so the project is likely to be revived... soon. < 1253554352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, it was dead? And what on earth will your thesis be about? < 1253554376 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe about optimizing brainfuck compiler. < 1253554468 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know it was dead, but certainly i didn't work on it for months so... you know. < 1253554530 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course the thesis would be in korean only. sadly i'm not good at academic writing in English) < 1253554649 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's going on in-between? :p < 1253554809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably better than my academic writing in Japanese. < 1253554822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my Japanese is about on par with that of a 2nd grader. Hooray?) < 1253554853 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i'm also not good at academic writing in Korean so that's not a problem. :p < 1253554883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253555913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want to find strategy-related games in the debian repos, just search for the game::strategy tag. (I'm not sure how to actually *do* that with apt, but the debtags smart-search can do it, at least.) < 1253556185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1253556196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, in-between is dead < 1253556329 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1253557246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the correct aptitude /-search for that is "?tag(game::strategy)", or alternatively "~Ggame::strategy". I don't think Synaptic (the graphical apt GUI Ubuntu comes with, I think?) knows anything about searching for tags, though. < 1253557279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I guess there's some even more dumbed-down add/remove-apps thing?) < 1253557399 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@90.52.95.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253557474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253558480 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253558499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:09:04 Whenabouts was he born? < 1253558503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995-08-22 < 1253558510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 am or so < 1253558524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54:36 Sometimes the interweb speeds here at work make me a bit envious; I just fetched a 695 MiB Ubuntu image at an average speed of 28.1 MiB/s; that's about 236 Mbps. At home it's something like a fifteenth of that, and even that to one direction only. < 1253558527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1253558530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you work :| < 1253558559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there a bit later, but it's just that boring university. < 1253558692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: better boring than shitty < 1253558701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:56:02 It was nic.funet.fi (well, fi.archive.ubuntu.com, but that's the same thing), so it's sort-of part of the same network, if you count the whole Funet -- http://www.csc.fi/english/institutions/funet -- as a one network. < 1253558706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're on the same internet? < 1253558709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count then! < 1253558714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253558762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be exactly sure where in Funet that Ubuntu mirror is. < 1253558772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm joking, i.e. funet is just a network like the internet < 1253558782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hyperbolically, if funet is discounted the internet is! < 1253558842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can only count downloads from the moon or Mars. < 1253558861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try alpha centuri < 1253558863 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253558864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via radio. < 1253558877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1253558887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I double click a word to select it in ubuntu < 1253558890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then drag from there < 1253558894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes a selection from my cursor position < 1253558897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the middle of the word < 1253558898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1253558908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *centauri < 1253559252 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-8-82.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253559618 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-142.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253559826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:30:26 I'm going to ask about terms and conditions in the mail though. If it is auto-processed, it isn't my fault. < 1253559828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, uhh, false. < 1253559993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hit = Going there, nothing < 1253560000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign = I don't want to look at this < 1253560010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get = Lol I be outdated, like de dinosorz < 1253560038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:04 Deewiant, full output from http://pastebin.ca/1574011 from updating in a 32-bit chroot I use for cross compiling < 1253560044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, I'd try and help but you set that to expire. < 1253560069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just had two Ign and two Hit lines < 1253560142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no, that was the full output < 1253560156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I even looked at that < 1253560168 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253560169 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1253560216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:01 do people actually write VLIW asm < 1253560217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:08 if so, what does it look like < 1253560217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:12 I assume they must, for stuff in kernel and such < 1253560220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Itanium documentation. < 1253560230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks boring. < 1253560260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:37 ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253560267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Sweden not have PhDs or something < 1253560305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:10:44 complete and utter fail < 1253560317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah, the search engine doesn't magically expand my algorithm and search with a strong AI < 1253560327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to act like a 7 year old and say fail < 1253560339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:54 AnMaster: add/remove is a rather dumbed-down interface < 1253560339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1253560438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It looks boring. <-- meh < 1253560464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sverre.web.cern.ch/sverre/IA64_1.pdf < 1253560467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tutorial with examples < 1253560482 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253560558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:14:40 ais523, not like that... I mean, at least gentoo has eix which has nice colour coded output < 1253560559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:14:44 and nicely formatted < 1253560564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, you could stop complaining and use Gentoo. < 1253560580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:17:17 but stuff like "foobar is a 3D RTS which takes place in a post nuclear dystopian setting" < 1253560590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian usually opt for legible descriptions as opposed to requiring niche knowledge. < 1253560593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*opts < 1253560596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, not "RTS". < 1253560621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:21:14 ouch it wants even more boost fail libs < 1253560625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies! Astonishing! < 1253560662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:32:56 maybe about optimizing brainfuck compiler. < 1253560670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, please, please use the proper name of the language < 1253560679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything i've seen that tries to be serious about it says BF :( < 1253560707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Advanced Optimization Techniques for the Abstract Imperative Language 'Brainfuck'" < 1253560717 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253560722 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(, counter-increment: sum attr(id); no workie < 1253560723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map map map map fold fold fold fold < 1253560728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1253560734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't think Synaptic (the graphical apt GUI Ubuntu comes with, I think?)" < 1253560739 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select select select select aggregate aggregate aggregate aggregate < 1253560745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package manager, yes. Not the more friendly "Add/Remove..." < 1253560754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: increment increment decrement decrement < 1253560756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUSHROOM MUSHROOM < 1253560765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ ++ -- -- < 1253560773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom. < 1253560827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the default radeon/ati driver kinda sucks when paired with Adobe Flash. < 1253560843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "music is desynchronized by like a 1/4 second" sucks. < 1253560849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not just music. < 1253560853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, every piece of audio. < 1253560861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look for music and then delay just that. < 1253560922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The delay is a function of the musicalnessity of the sound; it wouldn't delay, say, rap music, much if at all. < 1253561078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how Spotify under Wine keeps saying "fixme:ntdll:NtQueryInformationProcess (process=0xffffffff) Unimplemented information class: ProcessDebugFlags" once per second. I wonder if it's doing some sort of anti-anti-DRM "explode if someone's trying to use a debugger to extract song data" check, or if that's just unrelated Wine coincidence. < 1253561093 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253561098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torrents don't do that :-P < 1253561133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not as user-friendly to browse around with torrents. Besides, I wouldn't get the wonderful Spotify ads then. < 1253561166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to make a content-type tailored torrent searcher. < 1253561196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although torrents will always be quite slow, even on a fast connection. < 1253561480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this Sennheiser USB microphone/speaker headset -- well, it has the normal 3.5 mm headphone/mic plugs, and an USB -> 2x3.5mm adapter -- and when I plug it in, it is detected as a HID device. < 1253561486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input: Sennheiser Communications Sennheiser USB Headset as /class/input/input5 < 1253561486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic-usb 0003:1395:0002.0004: input,hidraw3: USB HID v1.00 Device [Sennheiser Communications Sennheiser USB Headset] on usb-0000:00:12.2-1.2/input3 < 1253561518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move your mouse by talking into it. < 1253561532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Up. Up. Left. Right. No, a bit to the left. Click." < 1253561606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Audio/Control Device interface, a couple of Audio/Streaming interfaces, and then a "No Subclass" HID device. < 1253561769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, things are nowadays so complicated, with every device having all kinds of crazy parts. According to ALSA I have four sound cards, for example; one's the motherboard-integrated, one's this USB thing, one's the TV capture card, and one's the Radeon graphics card HDMI port. < 1253562185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Radeon card actually works as a sound card, I think. < 1253562197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows how it compares to onboard. < 1253562243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can get anything else than the digital s/pdif out of it, though. (And actually it's the onboard-integrated radeon, not a separate card. :p ) < 1253562316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the point of the exercise was to test whether with this USB adapter I could connect the better Sennheiser headphones to the computer without hearing the awful "you can hear the mouse moving" noise the chassis front panel headphone connector gives. (Yes.) < 1253562360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing the mouse moving sounds awesome. < 1253562413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's the USB-caused interrupts or what; you can also hear things happening on the screen; well, either that, or just the related computation. < 1253562447 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253562624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sign of noise with this adapter, and since it's Sennheiser(TM), I'm sure it can't be completely awful w.r.t. audio quality in general, though I'm not really qualified to judge that. < 1253562686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought that too, until I heard sound emanating from a wireless headphone of theirs. < 1253562696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again it was more the whole radio thing and less the actual headphones that did that. < 1253562735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I had radio-based no-name-brand wireless headphones (because the cat kept eating the wires off the wired ones whenever I left them around), and I've seldom heard a worse thing. < 1253562862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:39 apparently my course lasts a maximum of 4 years and a minimum of 6 years < 1253562865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:51 and until I pointed it out, nobody saw a problem with this < 1253562867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253562885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the phd accepted, submit it, write it, study the advanced stuff < 1253562889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gradually gets more basic < 1253562963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official length for PhD studies around here is 4 years, with the theoretical studies done during the first two years, and the dissertation and related research mostly during the other two. < 1253562997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should go and fish around for some signatures, my graduate-studies application form needs to be returned by Friday. < 1253564024 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-121.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253564860 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253567613 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253567617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1253567665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253567696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. I can't even say hi back again < 1253567698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you aren't here... < 1253567782 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253567799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be fine if this radeon driver was just slow, but I'm pretty sure it's making Compiz unstable < 1253567802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that shit < 1253567876 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253567879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird by the way < 1253567887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you left before I could say hi < 1253567894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said? < 1253567962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes metacity compositing with gconf-editor because compiz is just so unstable with this driver
< 1253567973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need my damn window shadows < 1253568007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise metacity could composit < 1253568007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately compositing metacity's window shadows have a bit too much radius and blur < 1253568022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253568037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/apps/metacity/general/compositing_manager < 1253568043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to restart it < 1253568056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it draws the panel's window shadow underneath the windows < 1253568076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can put windows at the top or bottom and they won't look awful when unfocused < 1253568095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the shadow interacts with the beige inactive titlebar rather unpleasantly) < 1253568101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the compiz folks are trying to fix that though < 1253568176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Ubuntu users: System -> Administration -> Software Sources -> Download from: -> Other... -> Select Best Server < 1253568185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know that one < 1253568189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now apt-get update finishes in 0.6 seconds for me < 1253568195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and recommend it over in #ubuntu whenever a new release comes out < 1253568195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything is wonderfully fast < 1253568226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the official Swedish server < 1253568226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I got the same server trying it again about 5 minutes later, so this one I know is the best < 1253568234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly, it isn't in the UK < 1253568239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one do you use? < 1253568258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nl2.archive.ubuntu.com < 1253568268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why does it ping, though? that's not really an accurate test of total download speed, is it? < 1253568277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do my scans just after release, which is when the Ubuntu servers are likely most overloaded < 1253568282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be willing to run something that takes 10 minutes instead of 2 to get a more accurate measure < 1253568290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although pinging isn't a good test of throughput, it /is/ a good test of congestion < 1253568311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is likely to be more important in general, as a congested server will take hours, whereas all non-congested servers will have similar times < 1253568315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, it's nice to have the Reload stuff in Add/Remove... and the like be instant < 1253568352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm quite pedantic about naming it with the ellipsis because Gnome has proper conventions for these things and I want them to stick) < 1253568369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say GNOME, really, but it's not an acronym and that's an awfully shouty name < 1253568382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly humane :-P < 1253568402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use Epiphany sometimes, right? < 1253568404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253568408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Epiphany open atm < 1253568428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links from IRC open in Epiphany for me rather than Firefox < 1253568436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a few questions that you may know - one, why did they remove epiphany-webkit in Jaunty so you have to add two webkit-dev PPAs and a PGP key? < 1253568446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome has a compositing manager thing too; but literally the only thing it does is it can apply opacity values to active/inactive windows. < 1253568446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can configure that. < 1253568466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, xmag makes quite a nice colour picker < 1253568470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use epiphany-mozilla atm < 1253568481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can select the general region then hover over individual pixels to find their rgb < 1253568494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as (foo,bar,baz) where each element is repeated once < 1253568495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my guess is they removed it because nobody was willing to maintain it < 1253568498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to 16-bitness or something < 1253568510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f8f8,eaea,9797) etc < 1253568519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf is epiphany-mozilla? < 1253568520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that repetition would imply a 24-bit colour depth < 1253568532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... I mean epiphany-gecko < 1253568534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, which is standard < 1253568537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long day, OK < 1253568548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: epiphany-gecko is all Ubuntu has right now, but Epiphany are going Gecko-only in the future < 1253568573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were going Webkit-only < 1253568577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, right < 1253568584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, do you know where I can get a non-bitmap Chinese/Japanese font? annoying seeing all those pixelated characters among smoothed ones < 1253568592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Epiphany does fit into Gnome really well < 1253568600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which is why I'd rather use it instead of Firefox < 1253568607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's not ideal as a browser itself, it's good enough, and the rest of the system really knows what it's doing < 1253568637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my major annoyance with Epiphany atm is that you can't open a new tab by double-clicking the tab bar < 1253568640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite browser is Chrome, but it still draws that awful blue title/tab bar it uses on Windows XP and non-Aero Vista/7 in the super-alpha Linux version < 1253568649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it unusably puke-esque < 1253568650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should report that, it's not like double-clicking the bar does anything useful atm < 1253568667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had another complaint with the tab bar, but < 1253568671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :report it to the Gnome people < 1253568677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's yours? < 1253568678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just use the stock Gnome tab bar, obviously < 1253568687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least follow the Gnome conventions for tab bars strictly < 1253568695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't middle-click to close a tab < 1253568699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to hit the close button < 1253568700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could < 1253568706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same in Safari, but fucking annoying < 1253568708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you? < 1253568720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, you can't < 1253568725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the PPA WebKit version, so probably not the same version as you (more recent) < 1253568728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries in Nautilus
< 1253568731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an uglier icon to the repository versions. < 1253568741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the Nautilus tab bar is identical < 1253568744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, middle-clicking doesn't close tabs in Nautilus either < 1253568759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I do that literally all the time, so it's very annoying < 1253568762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not like Konqueror, where middle-clicking tries to interpret the selection contents as an URL and navigates there < 1253568768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1253568769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that < 1253568777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you middle click it goes to the URL in your clipboard < 1253568779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also causes you to lose the contents of the current tab as a result < 1253568790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "also"? that's what I said < 1253568790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror is insanity-inducing < 1253568797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "selection contents" < 1253568802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that the name of the X11 clipboard? < 1253568809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my Kanji characters and friends come from the ttf-{kochi,sazanami}-* packages, which I think are vector fonts, but I can't really say anything about the quality, since I can't decode the characters. < 1253568813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, if you deselect it does indeed uncopy it < 1253568814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's technically called "primary selection" or something like that < 1253568838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, Ubuntu's font rendering is quite passable in 9.04; they're using a new subpixel hinting thing < 1253568848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I spent far too long fiddling with elisp trying to get copy-and-paste working between Windows and Emacs running on SunOS inside Exceed < 1253568863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Slight hinting + subpixel right now, and I very rarely see any coloured fringes < 1253568866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed it in the end, though; it was the easiest way to transmit information between the two systems < 1253568888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, another Epiphany query < 1253568894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those Smart Bookmarks you drag to the toolbar? < 1253568896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of add-on confusion in that X11 has both the primary selection and a separate "clipboard" selection. < 1253568897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I never see coloured fringes on here with any settings but ones with the pixel order wrong < 1253568899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I don't < 1253568900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the toolbar with the address bar in < 1253568917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darn. see http://projects.gnome.org/epiphany/smartbookmarks.html < 1253568928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have bookmarks on the toolbar at all in Epiphany < 1253568932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I have them on the address bar < 1253568938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you have a bookmark like the "Search the web" one included, with %s in it < 1253568942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the address bar is on a toolbar < 1253568947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can drag it to any toolbar < 1253568950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I mean < 1253568952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll appear with a text field to the right < 1253568954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomebar-style < 1253568957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, I know that < 1253568959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except programmed by hand rather than automatic < 1253568969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useless, as you have to wait for a second for the completions to come up < 1253568971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hit down and enter < 1253568975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think there were something called "cut buffers" too? < 1253568976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's worthless for googling < 1253568979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html < 1253568989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, try dragging "Search the web" next to the address bar and you'll see < 1253569013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are twofold: one, you can't make it bigger, so the text box is always irritatingly small < 1253569020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, you can't assign the text box a keyboard shortcut < 1253569031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't do Ctrl+K hello Enter to google for something like I do now < 1253569057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, I can't find a way to search the web sanely with Epiphany < 1253569068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always just visit Google and use the text box there < 1253569073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not as good as the Firefox method, though < 1253569080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a problem I'd noticed, though < 1253569080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have *any idea* how much I google? < 1253569084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because I hardly use Google < 1253569090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :observe: < 1253569090 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253569104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. type in query, wait a small amount of time, hit down to "Search the web" smart bookmark, enter < 1253569123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. click dragged-to-toolbar "Search the web"'s input box, type query, enter (fastest out of these three) < 1253569125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a point of reference, I just google with Ctrl-L "g hello" enter. < 1253569141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. type in google.com, enter, wait for it to load, type query, enter < 1253569142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fun fact: today I was using someone else's computer (windows XP + IE), and I entered a URL wrong (it was one of the insane ones that need www. and don't work without) < 1253569152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: out of these, three is obviously the slowest by far < 1253569157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it decided to interpret my entry as a Bing search rather than going to the website < 1253569171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bing found the site as a result (nonsuprisingly, as I'd given it all the URL apart from the www) < 1253569172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you do a smart-bookmark-with-a-"g"-keyword like that in Epiphany too? < 1253569176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I clicked on the link, I got a security error < 1253569186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that an untrusted website (Bing) was trying to link to a trusted one < 1253569199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think so < 1253569206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: even if you can, that's suboptimal < 1253569214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this didn't really fill me with confidence in IE's usability... < 1253569225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, smart bookmarks are really stupid; the only use for them can be replaced with something like Firefox's search bar < 1253569239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily accessible, and you can easily add new engines with the OpenSearch thing that lets you add one from a compliant site < 1253569240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just implement opensearch < 1253569246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no waiting involved, which (to me) is enough; because I really don't like the search bar. < 1253569255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, the Epiphany people are either just trying to be different for "simplicity" and failing wildly, < 1253569259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are stupid :P < 1253569262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why not? < 1253569276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my conclusions about Bing: it's not incredibly bad, but it still has no reason for existing < 1253569284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it looks so useless, there's already one text box up there, and it's bigger too. < 1253569286 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-44-220.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253569287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: money < 1253569297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ctrl-K, Ctrl-L g space < 1253569300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Space < 1253569302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare. < 1253569304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to have an obvious way of making money either < 1253569311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you have a really small screen or something? < 1253569311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ads. < 1253569318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it has adverts that I mentally filtered out < 1253569327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that version of IE certainly wasn't running adblock < 1253569334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it had adverts that I didn't notice... < 1253569340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bing.com/search?q=ads&go=&form=QBLH&filt=all&qs=n < 1253569347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking up the whole third column < 1253569354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still no waiting, and (again, for me) the g-space prefix is just a small-constant O(1) thing when compared to writing the search query itself. < 1253569361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nowadays, I'm using adblock to block avatar folders on forums, so I don't have to look at everyone's awful avatars) < 1253569374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but if you can remove the constant without downside, why not? < 1253569379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah good point, it does have adverts < 1253569383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to conciously look at them to see them, though < 1253569397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same with most people. < 1253569400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something wrong with me? < 1253569402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "without downside", it eats up space from the address bar; and the search-bar itself is so short you can hardly fit any longer queries there. < 1253569424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for one, how tiny are your browser windows, and how long are the URLs of the sites you use?! < 1253569433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, text boxes can accept more than their width, you know < 1253569439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my search box isn't *that* small < 1253569441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, admittedly my main browser window is 1920 pixels wide nowadays. < 1253569446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253569456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's probably really just that I never got used to it, before getting the habit of the C-l g-googling. < 1253569499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the 1024x768 iBook the address bar (with the toolbar buttons to the left, and a reasonably-sized search bar to the right) *was* a bit short-ish. < 1253569541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the smallest usable text box is
< 1253569547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 characters is probably enough to correct typos < 1253569592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usable as in barely or usable as in usable? < 1253569656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253569663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"keyboard shortcut to smart bookmark epiphany" on google, first result: "Epiphany is hype, get over it" < 1253569671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a positive post about Epiphany... < 1253569678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://raphael.slinckx.net/blog/2006-03-15/epiphany-is-hype-get-over-it < 1253569680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scratches head
< 1253569744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what's the appropriate reaction when you go to the official website for a TV show, and find that it's on Geocities and most of the links go to under-construction pages? < 1253569762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in an unsurprising move a new entry on my todo list has been created, that of "make a really *Gnome* IRC client featuring integration with Ubuntu's fancy messaging menu thing" < 1253569786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you don't know what that is unless you use Pidgin or... one other email client, probably, < 1253569807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu < 1253569816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think Empathy integrates it too actually < 1253569827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I certainly went WTF when I saw it the first time... < 1253569832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how old is this show? < 1253569869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's apparently very popular in France, but ran for a few years over in the UK and then went to satellite < 1253569871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several years ago < 1253569881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it look Geocities? < 1253569885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253569889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has that advert sidebar thing < 1253569893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop watching it :P < 1253569896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all geocities pages have that... < 1253569901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was optional < 1253569906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253569908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got pretty good at Geocities back when it was popular < 1253569913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could have banner ads instead < 1253569916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's mandatory nowadays at least < 1253569920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which weren't JS-laden, and so tended to work better than the sidebar < 1253569923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never saw that when I used it... < 1253569929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even on geocities sites < 1253569936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I used to use a script to hide the bar < 1253569937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1253569940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I used to connect a geocities site to a free domain name person < 1253569945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that the ads cancelled each other out < 1253569949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1253569953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tk? < 1253569955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some sort of javascript crash < 1253569957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not .tk < 1253569959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjb.net? < 1253569960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :com-2.net, IIRC < 1253569960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uni.cc? < 1253569965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it still exists < 1253569965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the ones I used... < 1253569966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1253569972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parked < 1253569979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, parked < 1253569983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, konversation was ported to kde 4 < 1253569989 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253569994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, uh, still ugly < 1253570008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Version 4.2.2 (KDE 4.2.2) < 1253570016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://konversation.kde.org/screenshots/konversation12-alpha5_3.png ;; heh, this is from an old version... those quick buttons beneath the user list are from X-Chat < 1253570024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are perhaps the ugliest interface ever devised < 1253570038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, wow, do you really deop people that much? < 1253570040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation doesn't fill me massively with confidence in terms of programming quality < 1253570058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they were very responsive when I sent them a bug report < 1253570064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a great bug, btw < 1253570070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation was my preferred IRC client in 2006 using Kubuntu < 1253570075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing /msg then a channel opened a second tab for the channel < 1253570079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember. < 1253570080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could send but not receive < 1253570085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version before Kubuntu turned to purple, iirc < 1253570090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Remember when Kubuntu turned purple? < 1253570095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that release was so ugly... < 1253570111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've given up on trying to track irrelevant Konversation UI changes < 1253570118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pillateunlinux.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/4-kubuntu610-1.png < 1253570119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think I used KDE that release < 1253570125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ^ < 1253570137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window borders: http://openlife.cc/system/files/snapshot1-640x400.png < 1253570146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that link isn't too bad apart from the cog things in the menu sidebar < 1253570155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing I did that release was change the theme, or at least its colours < 1253570158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the purple, man! < 1253570162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was overpowering < 1253570165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that colour to be purple < 1253570167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shade of blue < 1253570175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, colours are perceived differently by different people) < 1253570177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the ugliest shade of blue, then < 1253570188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: note that that screenshot is darker than it was < 1253570190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://openlife.cc/system/files/snapshot1-640x400.png < 1253570195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the sidebar background < 1253570202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the colour it was < 1253570245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like it < 1253570246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I mean, the release before was http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/linux/install/files/anomalieaftereboot.png (except that screenshot's tinted too) < 1253570250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was a lot... bluer < 1253570266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that previous release is far too bluish-cyan < 1253570277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to darken the background of that one to avoid hurting my eyes < 1253570291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WTF? that's not cyan < 1253570299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cyaner than pure blue is < 1253570300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure your display is adjusted right? < 1253570305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very much blue < 1253570316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try changing the alpha < 1253570319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously goes cyan when lightened < 1253570326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, blue goes lilacy when lightened < 1253570328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gamma < 1253570329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, my display is calibrated... < 1253570354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is totally blue, man. < 1253570358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you extract RGB codes from xmag? < 1253570366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hover over a pixel < 1253570373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing happens < 1253570375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253570376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click it < 1253570380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down < 1253570380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1253570384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, click < 1253570397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6291d5 < 1253570405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's substantially greener than it is red < 1253570408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bluish-cyan < 1253570413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me removed the repeats) < 1253570417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly purplish blue... < 1253570430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the oracle link that gave that colour < 1253570443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtttttttttfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff444444444444444444444455555555555555555554555555555555555555555555555555oh crpa < 1253570445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1253570456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you broke him. < 1253570468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is annoying < 1253570473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the openlife.cc title bars are 6977a6 < 1253570487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: openlife.cc is 6.10 < 1253570490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last link was 6.04 < 1253570492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again very slightly greener than red, although that's almost exactly pure blue < 1253570495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the non-puple < 1253570495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm comparing the two links < 1253570509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you say is non-purple I say is bluish-cyan, and the hex agrees < 1253570509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title bas a ielevant < 1253570524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really not interested in this < 1253570525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you say is purple I say is blue, and the hex agrees < 1253570529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, this is a silly topic < 1253570533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, look at the sidebar < 1253570540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Appearance selection, say < 1253570544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so purple < 1253570569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey < 1253570569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EdgyEft/RC/Kubuntu - Ubuntu Wiki < 1253570570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For information on previous releases of Kubuntu 6.10, the Edgy Eft, ... it has been decorated with the latest purple scheme, and the Kubuntu gears logo. ... < 1253570573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7579ba < 1253570578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greener than it is red < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Bug 62618] edgy default purple color ugly < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 Sep 2006 ... [Bug 62618] edgy default purple color ugly. Marc Schiffbauer ... theme (window decorations and background) that kubuntu 6.10 has as default. ... < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.../msg60562.html - Cached - Similar - < 1253570583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artwork/Incoming/Attic/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas - Ubuntu Wiki < 1253570583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 Aug 2008 ... The vision I have for Kubuntu Edgy is defined by use of color (purple and blue), texture (bubbles and/or a real pic and/or a mix of the two) ... < 1253570586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kubuntu Edgy Eft (Glass) KDE-Look.org < 1253570586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kubuntu Edgy Eft (Glass) KDE-Look.org Community Portal for KDE Themes ... of) and purple for the purists and traditionalists who'll yell "Edgy is purple! ... < 1253570594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Kubuntu 6.10 was purple, and I rest my case. < 1253570595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, the names I use for colours match up with the ones that computers use, but not the ones the general public use < 1253570600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 09:03:37 ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253570600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does Sweden not have PhDs or something < 1253570604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different terminology < 1253570606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: including the people behind it < 1253570630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised that people can call 7579ba purple < 1253570638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, most people consider, say, ddddff purple < 1253570641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use "course" both for the full thing and for stuff like "networking in java"? < 1253570645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1253570650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think < 1253570650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1253570661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's only correct usage for the full thing < 1253570664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would technically be "module" < 1253570668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people call it "course" often anyway < 1253570695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I find it odd that Gnome has a bunch of disparate download folder settings, and each app does its own download manager < 1253570707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how confusing < 1253570721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What should one call 7579ba < 1253570723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Gnome way would be to have a folder ~/.gnome2/downloads that every app downloads to, and when you open it in Nautilus it's special (like the Wastebasket or a CD) < 1253570731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd consider it a shade of blue < 1253570733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always displays as a list, and you have progess bars/a cancel button < 1253570738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that orange header saying "Downloads" < 1253570742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's as green as it is red, and it's bluer than that < 1253570746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can move them elsewhere < 1253570750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor is it very white, grey, or black < 1253570753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it odd they haven't done that < 1253570755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they plan to < 1253570775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's evidence they plan to, at least < 1253570779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the folder actually opened would be downloads:/ < 1253570781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it would be (loosely translated): "master program" (bleh for Swenglish) but the "networking in java" would be called "kurs" which according to dictionaries means "course" < 1253570785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a setting for download folder in one of the conf files somewhere < 1253570791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd show files from ~/.gnome2/downloads < 1253570797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which explains why I was confused why it was so long < 1253570810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just the centralised download location or the Nautilus thing too? < 1253570832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How confusing; around here a "course" is a single-topic lectures-and-so-on usually-ends-in-an-exam thing, and a "module" is one of a couple of multi-course building blocks which together make up the degree. < 1253570836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nautilus seems not to know of it < 1253570842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, nothing seems to download there except manually < 1253570849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I invented it < 1253570858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I think I borked the config when I accidentally renamed every file in my home directory < 1253570859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: read up to "incidentally, I find it odd that Gnome has a bunch of disparate download folder settings, and each app does its own download manager" onwards for a few lines < 1253570872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I explain a more Gnomey system that I'm surprised hasn't been adopted already < 1253570872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't nearly as bad as deleting the thing by mistake, but it certainly caused a lot of chaos < 1253570887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the desktop couldn't find ~/Desktop, so defaulted to ~ < 1253570894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the desktop contained everything in my home folder < 1253570898 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253570903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lavender is pretty close to ddddff and it's a shade of purple < 1253570918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that ECTS standard "credit" for amount-of-study; can't seem to find out whether they've standardised any related terminology. < 1253570928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I suppose colour names are almost impossible to standardise across people < 1253570933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, ddddff is blue by definition < 1253570942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I base my recognition of colours on that definition < 1253570954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue is 0000ff :-P < 1253570955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says lavender is e6e6fa, which is more green/red and less blue < 1253570960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, ubuntu 6.10 was lavender < 1253570964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a "tint of violet" < 1253570978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what colour would you say indigo was, by the way? < 1253570980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wondered < 1253570987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indigo < 1253570988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since people said there were 7 colours in a rainbow < 1253570995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indigo's allegedly some sort of dark blue < 1253570998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't dark blue in a rainbow < 1253571001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indigo is purple < 1253571004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the colours are much the same brightness < 1253571007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In U.S. education, a course is a unit of teaching that typically lasts one academic term, is led by one or more instructors (teachers or professors), has a fixed roster of students, and gives each student a grade and academic credit.-- Courses are made up of individual sessions, typically on a fixed weekly schedule." That sounds like our courses. < 1253571009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it dark purple < 1253571011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253571015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the shade < 1253571017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for physics reasons < 1253571018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either blue or purple < 1253571022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly purple < 1253571032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if US and UK used the terms differently, it would explain the confusion < 1253571066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it's rather obvious from the years < 1253571146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, one of Epiphany/WebKit's current flaws is that it has no extensions < 1253571156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll install Ubuntu epiphany-gecko and see if it can do the search bar thing < 1253571189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.rlove.org/2005/10/with-little-help-from-your-compiler.html <-- ouch < 1253571197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people are complaining about the semantic changes depending on compiler in that < 1253571209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I noticed was that they were messing with double-underscore identifiers they weren't allowed to use < 1253571219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __pure can literally do /anything/ in the C standard, for instance < 1253571221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what OED says. Wow, that's a long entry; that word is so very overloaded. Full of stuff like "b. Eccl. The prescribed series of prayers for the seven canonical hours." but nothing about education-related terminology. < 1253571242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's wrong with that post? < 1253571245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can even imagine a legit non-DS9K compiler in which that sort of thing causes link errors < 1253571250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the reddit article explains half the problems < 1253571253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, I hate xchat-gnome; like xchat, it has absolutely no line spacing between lines < 1253571258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading IRC is quite a chore... < 1253571262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, look at __packed, for instance < 1253571267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you didn't link to the relevant reddit thing < 1253571267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a semantic change to the code < 1253571275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9mg4l/with_a_little_help_from_your_compiler/ < 1253571287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "For instance." Any others/ < 1253571291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s:/:?: < 1253571324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of them could bork system headers < 1253571327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the #define inline in particular < 1253571333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "You can always make your own font-variant which includes the line-spacing you want." < 1253571343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So #include it after headers < 1253571350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that a quote :D < 1253571350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the define on __const < 1253571357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It is now! < 1253571364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: say it again so it is! < 1253571373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "You can always make your own font-variant which includes the line-spacing you want." < 1253571387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh man, what idiot said that? < 1253571402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the likely and unlikely macros are crazy, in that the gcc versions cast to boolean, the non-gcc versions leave it as an int < 1253571402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It was this fizz-erly-something guy. < 1253571421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what a moron! < 1253571438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's boolean defined as? < 1253571444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, !!x < 1253571449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which casts to boolean whether it's defined or not < 1253571457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Meh, "likely/unlikely" pale in comparison with the __assume intrinsic of VC++. It's for when you assert and mean it, like a real man! It allows you to bend software reality any way you want! Say __assume(x == 4) and the compiler would eliminate the variable by constant propagation. Say __assume(0) and the compiler would consider the containing piece of code unreachable and eliminate it.]] < 1253571458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want that < 1253571464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#define __malloc" is great, too < 1253571464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1253571474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whether it's defined or not"? < 1253571480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether boolean is defined or not < 1253571486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, NetHack has a typedef something boolean < 1253571490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many other codebases do too < 1253571498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and splint lets you tell it what your boolean type is called < 1253571518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253571519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can say "cast to boolean" when they actually don't do *that* much to the type, just clamp the values to 0, 1. < 1253571536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the same thing as casting to (C99's) boolean, isn't it? < 1253571558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing about "#define __malloc" is that __malloc is an /incredibly/ likely token to appear in system headers < 1253571558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Pidgin is a terrible IRC client, but I wonder if libpurple(the library underneath)'s IRC support is any good? < 1253571567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not, because I like inventing the wheel :P < 1253571572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't !!1L still a long, while (boolean)1L might not be? I don't really know, that's just what I'd think. < 1253571574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deleting it at random could create all sorts of fun < 1253571581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I like reinventing it too, really < 1253571588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, "libpurple(the library underneath)'s" < 1253571595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: both resulting values will cast to the same values if cast to the same type, though < 1253571597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone run into a similar syntactical quandary before? < 1253571607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can do that in email addresses < 1253571614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253571644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it makes a difference if you put them to the X in "long foo = INT_MAX + X", I guess? < 1253571648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__assume would be easy enough to implement in C-INTERCAL, anyway < 1253571656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And a C or C++ program that names a type something_t is also not portable as _t is reserved either by the C standard or by POSIX." < 1253571659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would have to be an operator, because the optimiser doesn't cross statements yet < 1253571666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(predicting flow control is far too difficult in INTERCAL) < 1253571668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that answers my question about whether I should name my types like that in the Splinted program... < 1253571685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, _t is reserved by POSIX unconditionally for future expansion < 1253571694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by C99 for certain patterns before the underscore < 1253571706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... alt-tab has an annoying lag in metacity < 1253571724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't have a function called is followed by a lowercase letter followed by anything, or str followed by a lowercase letter followed by anything < 1253571770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can have a function called is or str followed by a lowercase letter followed by nothing? < 1253571802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The _t typedef naming is pretty common; people like to live dangerously. < 1253571816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is in anything, isn't it? < 1253571818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do anything." < 1253571867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, "followed by anything" means nothing. < 1253571889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it means that folllowed by anything means some or no text. < 1253571921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omitting it implies "end of text"; i.e., strx is illegal but strxfoo isn't. < 1253571957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, I suppose. < 1253572008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if you can gpg-encrypt a loopback device as an alternative to truecrypt :-D
< 1253572046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, mount a two-way FIFO < 1253572049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as loopback < 1253572055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it gpg encrypt/decrypt < 1253572066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # define ASSERT(e) ( ((e) || assert(__FILE__, __LINE__) ) < 1253572068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound very seekable. < 1253572071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it me, or is there something very wrong with that line? < 1253572081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does VC++ use a nonstandard definition of assert? < 1253572132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: overloaded? < 1253572137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is C++, after all < 1253572151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it decrypts it all at first < 1253572154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert's defined as a macro in the standard headers < 1253572160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although I guess that's keeping it in memory < 1253572161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253572165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if it's slow! :D < 1253572171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are defined by the standard < 1253572173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't overload macros < 1253572177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that's defined in the standard headers, so they're exempt. < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly it's defined before #define assert() < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assert is their function defined before < 1253572202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides < 1253572203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a code example < 1253572205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define assert(x) foo < 1253572207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then < 1253572209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definition of ASSERT isn't a standard one < 1253572209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert(x,y) < 1253572212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't use assert, does it? < 1253572217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1253572277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Evaluates an expression and, when the result is false, prints a diagnostic message and aborts the program. < 1253572281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the /correct/ definition < 1253572298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have no clue what's going on here < 1253572339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they suggest that code should use System::Diagnostics::Debug::Assert instead < 1253572383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a code example, it might be, you know, wrong. Or trying to show how to implement an assert macro (called "ASSERT") with file-and-line-printing, using a custom underlying assert() function, without thinking about the standard assert at all. < 1253572392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it's wrong < 1253572399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still shoddy behaviour, though < 1253572416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it's meant to be a custom assert, it's incredibly bad style and thus shouldn't be used in code examples in the official documentation < 1253572418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you are allowed to name a function assert() if you want, and call it too, as long as you don't include ? < 1253572647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, firefox crashed < 1253572663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to install epiphany-gecko because I'm too lazy to add the PPA for now and this might have useful extensions < 1253572729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know if apt-get purge wipes gconf things too? < 1253572742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know < 1253572748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I know that I don't know < 1253572751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I don't know whether I know < 1253572760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I'd said "no", that would also be ambiguous < 1253572762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trippy < 1253572820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another problem I have with Epiphany is that it uses Gnome default settings for the default font size; in my case 10pt < 1253572828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the default size on the web tends to be 12pt = 16px < 1253572842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so and other pages using sizes relative to the default have small text < 1253572848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is intensely irritating < 1253572854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applies to quite a bit of pages < 1253572861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be an option to change this < 1253572867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems they removed that, which is a fun regression < 1253572987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :websites saying smaller-than-default font for everything are insane < 1253572990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it's the website's fault < 1253573007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for sizing text? < 1253573020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for putting a relative size on text that doesn't leave most of the text on the site at default < 1253573023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's default for a reason! < 1253573059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that reason being that firstly it's a fucking pain to change it and secondly almost all users won't bother changing it even if they can. < 1253573068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, no, wait, that's an argument for a browser being PRACTICAL. < 1253573073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I prefer the 16px font on the web < 1253573087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't change it without changing the font size for ALL documents, including IRC, because it's the DEFAULT SIZE. < 1253573098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prefer websites and nonwebsites to have differently sized text? < 1253573116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a lot of things, yes. < 1253573126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly enough, most applications are unlike a web browser. < 1253573127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an attitude I find hard to understand < 1253573136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's text in both cases, and in both cases generally I want to read it < 1253573140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you barely use any programs < 1253573144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want it at a good size for me to read < 1253573161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not "text" in both cases < 1253573163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an article < 1253573175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Document" in Gnome is almost everything in the window body < 1253573185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from UI elements < 1253573274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so suppose you were reading an IRC log in your browser < 1253573280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you want that a different size from talking on IRC? < 1253573293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly enough, it's called a default because it's not appropriate in ALL cases. < 1253573309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, wait, in ais523's idealised web nobody sets the font size because the default is always right. < 1253573335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm sort of in favour of semantically correct web pages with no stylesheets < 1253573352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't get away with it because IE's default stylesheet is (or at least used to be) truly awful < 1253573364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, you want to codify every type of information, every context it might be presented in, and just about everything in one XML schema. < 1253573366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, good luck. < 1253573411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the correct appearance of information tends to correlate very much with what that information is < 1253573436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, reading an email is much the same as reading an essay < 1253573503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should become dictator and then force everyone to read one typography book and one information design book < 1253573523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pros: world becomes a better place < 1253573527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons: moral code violated < 1253573528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky < 1253573674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the Epiphany in the Ubuntu repositories has the required settings to untiny the fonts < 1253573699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're set to the right thing by default, except you have to move it one down and one up < 1253573713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because it's filling it in without having saved it yet, and the backend doesn't use the default as the default shown there... < 1253573916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how to delete a gconf folder? < 1253573920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253573923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly mess with gconf < 1253573934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to go around endlessly configuring things, I'd use KDE < 1253574013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, uh, thanks for the dismissal but i was trying to remove the old epiphany prefs < 1253574026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rm -rfing the dir got rid of the preferences, but left the folder < 1253574038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess gconf-daemon isn't synchronized yet < 1253574044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading up on IA64 asm coding: conclusion is IA64 really rocks < 1253574049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an architecture < 1253574052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it really doesn't < 1253574057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad it failed commercially < 1253574058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that it turns out to be slower < 1253574090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much is due to it being so different that usual compilers didn't work very well. Because that is one known issue with it. < 1253574102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was just really slow in general. < 1253574120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but predicated execution! And lots more. < 1253574160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also why? some fundamental deign flaw or just poor implementation? < 1253574181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the hardware level I mean) < 1253574200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering how much money Intel put into it and how much marketing and the fact that they've made a bunch of Itanium-based processors, and they're all slow, I conclude that the architecture sucks. < 1253574222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it benchmarked? < 1253574232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253574239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just slow. In general. At everything. < 1253574248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C code for benchmarking? < 1253574255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................. < 1253574291 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253574293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? I'm just asking about the details for how it was deemed slow < 1253574293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM were claiming to get something like 5 times the performance for the same power usage recently < 1253574298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't know what those figures are based on < 1253574305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's almost certainly been marketing-spun to some extent < 1253574328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it was slow. at. everything. < 1253574343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like asking what code was used to conclude that the Pentium 4 is slower than the Core 2. < 1253574351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not slow at some benchmark. It's just slow in general. < 1253574356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make -j1.5 < 1253574372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrong window. < 1253574373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, How was it messured. I mean, looking at the IA64 architecture it would be best at very parallel tasks, with few dependencies < 1253574388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it was a joky example of how to benchmark processors < 1253574388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How was WHAT measured? < 1253574390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS SLOW IN GENERAL! < 1253574394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than stuff where each calculation depends on the previous part < 1253574397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At everything! By multiple people! < 1253574401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just slow! < 1253574411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but what was the specific benchmarks < 1253574416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253574423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see it is basically SIMD most of the time < 1253574453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In AnMaster's world, if someone says "the processors turned out to all be slow", that means they're referring to a single run of benchmarks by a single group as opposed to it JUST BEING SLOW. < 1253574483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm wondering what sort of reports you will write at uni when you get there < 1253574485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1253574532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: am I being insane or is he responding to "Itanium turned out to be slower than x86 in every processor they've made" with "You will fail at university because you aren't providing a meticulous citation to a single source of a single benchmark run" < 1253574573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think ehird's trying to say that eir opinion isn't rigorous, just an estimate based on eir own experience < 1253574584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the gaps as large as e claims, an estimate will easily be good enough < 1253574585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1253574586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I'm saying at all < 1253574586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gap's < 1253574593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said anything close to that < 1253574606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seemed like it < 1253574672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, the concept sounds good, possibly the implementation (the actual architecture) was sucky. basic stuff like predicated execution, VLIW, and so on is all great < 1253574684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a lot more money has been spend on x86 < 1253574687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than IA64 < 1253574692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the years < 1253574768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less work often means worse results. Not implying that IA64 had a small budget or effort wasn't spent on it. Just saying overall, x86 had a lot more of that during the years < 1253574851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1253574890 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253575103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast CPU is is affected by lots of things. Clock frequency, pipeline depth, auxillary function units, proneness to hazards, etc... < 1253575127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what benchmarks proved this? < 1253575134 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netburst P4 was bad at pretty much everything except clock frequency. < 1253575135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want specific benchmarks! < 1253575139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't have any? < 1253575142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you fail at life < 1253575152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253575273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longer pipeline slows things down by being so long that one can't get enough paralelism to keep the CPU busy. Also, cost of triggering hazard is proportional to length of pipeline. < 1253575288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipelines have a weird effect on efficiency < 1253575297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they increase latency, increase throughput, and make mispredictions worse < 1253575373 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there is some sweet spot where performance enchancement due to higher clock frequency and de-enhancement due to insufficient paralelism and hazards balance... < 1253575456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at given clock frequency, lengthening the pipeline tends to be negative impact... < 1253575617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection