< 1252886431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a little bit of POSIX but not enough for those. Well, vi will compile fine and coreutils shouldn't require ginormous patches, but bash and rxvt? Crapshoot. < 1252886461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a native X server for Windows, Xming, but rxvt has been patched to have a Windows GUI so that isn't even needed; it's the rest of rxvt that'd be the problem. < 1252886944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Protesters at Washington yesterday, arguing vaguely against the protest, seem to think that their protest was the "biggest crowd to march on Washington". < 1252886954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some ten thousand people. < 1252886976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protesting against the protest? Wut < 1252886983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/protest/President/ < 1252886988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. This way's more fun. < 1252886992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've seen crowds orders of magnitude larger march on Washington. < 1252886996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"March For the Opposition of Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polity partics (he wrote, before looking at that and sporrecting his coonerism), party politics in the US are just tedious. Both parties are so crazy that there's no way to comprehend them, so it's best to ignore them. < 1252887372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Democrats are less crazy. (... in much the same way that a schizophrenic is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer) < 1252887410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In much the same way as a schizophrenic serial killer is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer that urinates on their victims beforehand. < 1252887612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not schizophrenic, and neither am i, and besides they never found any bodies < 1252887677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you are just imagining you are reading this. maybe _you_ are the schizophrenic one. < 1252887690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right. < 1252887748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i seem to be hearing a voice. it said, "you're right." but then, that's what they always say. they don't dare anything else. < 1252887816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252887838 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252887900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/cygwine/ super! < 1252887914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how it's more like wine, though < 1252887934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't really need two different installers, so I hope you find a way to merge your efforts with those working on setup.exe." < 1252887951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store it for a few years before using it. < 1252887955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not get rid of shitup.exe and rename this setup.exe, there's nothing salvageable in the other... < 1252888183 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF ... < 1252888193 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw "cygwine", I thought of dozens of awesome possibilities. < 1252888196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not one of them. < 1252888242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define cyg < 1252888244 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cygnus (, genitive Cygni ) is a northern constellation. Its name is Latin for swan. One of the most recognizable constellations of the northern ... \ [18]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyg \ < 1252888280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make wine from swans anyway < 1252888364 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Gut the swan < 1252888374 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Throw out the skin and muscle < 1252888379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Put the guts in water and shake vigorously < 1252888381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Add yeast < 1252888384 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) Wait 15 years < 1252888386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) Enjoy! < 1252890229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I don't think it works that way. < 1252890234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not enough sugar) < 1252890267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but swans are sweet < 1252890304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when they swoop < 1252890387 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252890485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252890549 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252890580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm pretty sure wine will run on cygwin, anyway < 1252890587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cygwin runs in wine < 1252890592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can nest as much as you want < 1252890602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a preferences Dialog < 1252890603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dialog < 1252890628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed - Slow [ ] Astronomically slow < 1252890684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I like the nice wx-based GUI, that's really pretty." // yeah, apart from the really crickly edges on the button images... < 1252890693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people blind or something? < 1252890738 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "speed of fusion in star 100 times the mass of Jupiter" "Astronomically slow"? :-> < 1252890761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astronomically obviously means "grossly hugely". < 1252890766 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All things are relative. < 1252890790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to force himself not to copy/paste < 1252890828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why < 1252890856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It leads to bugs and is ugly < 1252890857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/crack_pairings.htm < 1252890860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, code. < 1252890877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including table 4 incorrectly referring to table 3 < 1252890886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pregnancy (use male pregnancy if needed)" < 1252890891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, /what/. < 1252890897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my idea < 1252890907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go blame the people at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111631 < 1252890909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The above line is singular justification for not setting +c on this channel and mandating that ^I is italics, not inverse.) < 1252890964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wtf, did you really not think of writing one function over many tables? < 1252890990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did, but some of the tables have things like using the initial table, and others don't. < 1252890991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, using Math.floor on random values? < 1252890998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1252891037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I did any Javascript. I used another page that I wrote, again a while after I did any Javascript, to jog my memory < 1252891051 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252891063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at randomness :|| < 1252891118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it fail? I really don't know < 1252891134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes http://code.google.com/p/cygwin-rurban/source/browse/trunk/contrib/cyginstall/cyginstall for his own purposes < 1252891154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should round < 5 down, > 5 up to retain the ... thingy of the original number < 1252891162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'm pretty sure it's unevenly distributed < 1252891170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ==5, do whatever < 1252891666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think that matters much except at the edges, where it might depend < 1252891694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252891698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use Math.round or something :P < 1252891744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your floats are in a range [0 .. n) then you definitely want floor to get {0, ..., n-1} values < 1252891757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252891764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rounding would fail by having half length intervals at the edges < 1252891776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to weak the range afterwards in JS < 1252891779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what he does < 1252891783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's irrelevant < 1252891819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevertheless you want those int values you actually use to come from same length float subintervals < 1252891829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252891832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean < 1252891836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS only has one range, iirc < 1252891843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for random numbers < 1252891853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 1) i presume < 1252891872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, think so < 1252891893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is inclusive, () is exclusive, right? < 1252891897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252891901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ it includes 1.0, but I'm not sure < 1252891949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor(n*rnd) gives a uniform integer as long as you cannot hit n < 1252891959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe best to check anyway < 1252892176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if Math.random() returns between [0, 1) then my code is correct? < 1252892193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, except for the whole idiotic table_1 table_2 table_3 etc. thing) < 1252892204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252892218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1252892327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Math.random(), while it will never ever return 1, will occasionally (VERY occasionally) return zero. < 1252892330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=545326 < 1252892359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, Flash < 1252892373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actionscript is an implementation of ECMAscript. < 1252892378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't dismiss arguments based on it. < 1252892381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just test. < 1252892408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0;i<100000;i++) if (Math.random()==1) alert("fuck") < 1252892409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any errors based on the number being too high are (with one exception) absorbed by an else < 1252892484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get "fuck" when I changed that 1 to a 0, though < 1252892510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it's (0, 1] which is weird. Just look it up in the ECMAscript specification. < 1252892516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ECMAScript < 1252892524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262.pdf < 1252892532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get fuck when it was one < 1252892544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have been unlucky enough to not get zeros < 1252892554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's (0, 1] < 1252892566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1252892569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's [0, 1) < 1252892574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1252892576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1" < 1252892582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah etc. < 1252892595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hey, does Sumatra really not have copy/paste of text? < 1252892596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfman. < 1252892618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can search but not select... < 1252892633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can < 1252892637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it selects as a rectangle < 1252892639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not text < 1252892644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1, chosen randomly < 1252892646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pseudo randomly with approximately uniform distribution over that range, using an < 1252892648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation-dependent algorithm or strategy. This function takes no arguments. < 1252892650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-drag < 1252892656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a, wossname, retarded interface. < 1252892677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoting that parrot from Eric? < 1252892697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252892704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just the wossname bit. < 1252892723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THat's what I meant < 1252892775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how hard it'd be to build ghc on cygwin < 1252892783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd be porting, essentially, but... < 1252893170 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252893334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. You must be poor." // an odd process of deduction there < 1252893491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does anyone know if Lua still sucks? < 1252893525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSMP was supposed to use Lua < 1252893536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know it sucked in the first place < 1252893660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.solipsis.org/ I didn't remember Solipsis being 3d.. or anything other than a bunch of dots < 1252893771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sgeo immediately attempts to travel forwards in time so he can be nostalgic about it) < 1252893801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he succeeds! - very slowly though < 1252893813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252893816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Primer! < 1252893824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except reversed. < 1252893864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things I don't get nostalgic about! < 1252893876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over IMVU < 1252893990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over the time that I was without computer access for a long period of time < 1252894014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those are open-ended 3D virtual realities < 1252894097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not especially nostalgic over OSMP, but it never really worked in a large-scale manner < 1252894118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you're only nostalgic about good things. < 1252894121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes caliber, that. < 1252894179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm feeling some OSMP-related nostalgic, but more about the ideas I had for it then OSMP itself < 1252895449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nostalgia < 1252895624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252896150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the typo, but figured you'd try to make some joke out of it, instead of a boring correction < 1252896185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too lazy for that < 1252896244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake has several forms of documentation. There is a book Mastering CMake by Ken Martin and Bill Hoffman (ISBN 1-930934-16-5) which is published by Kitware and can be purchased through Kitware's e-store or through Amazon. // which costs $52 < 1252896250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "documentation" is generated from the source code < 1252896257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, the cmake documentation costs $52+shipping < 1252896259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1252896262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an "open" project < 1252896370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, I'm done delaying on my homework. Restarting my computer. I won't be back until one or two paragraphs are done. < 1252896406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homework: because the whole day wasn't enough! < 1252896411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't, perhaps. < 1252896439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252896460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252896465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad not to have any homework < 1252896471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, none due tomorrow :P < 1252896496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope what? < 1252896538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole day is never enough < 1252896541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procrastination 101 < 1252896599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I mean that "homework" is the (wrong) answer to "keeping kids in our environment all day and prodding them with repeated reciting of textbooks isn't teaching them anything. What do we do?" < 1252896830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my disk can store 385.92 miles. < 1252896840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://neologasm.org/neologasm/2007/07/fortraninch.html via http://andrewducker.livejournal.com/1227424.html < 1252896847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anti-via, rather. "refers to", maybe. < 1252899500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252899932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, CygWine uses mingwm10.dll, i.e., some MinGW thing. < 1252900329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CygWine seems to only do 1.5, *sigh* < 1252900350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could patch the code to use -2, but I'd need MinGW and wxWidgets dev libs. < 1252900367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it uses goddamn cmake. < 1252900991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("If nothing goes overly wrong, the official 1.7.1 release goes public still within the the first half of 2009.") < 1252901180 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252901530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tommd.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/kernel-modules-in-haskell/ < 1252901533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will love this. < 1252901542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type-safe, garbage collected, referentially transparent Linux kernel modules? < 1252901544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252901558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my hostility to Linux just evaporated. < 1252901676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/bonch, a single-minded dimwit. < 1252901875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY HASKELL LINK < 1252901889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY DRINK < 1252901902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka alcoholism in 1 step < 1252901921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also, you forgot the newline. < 1252902001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEM \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I ... damn, can't rhyme here. < 1252902015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try "SHIT" < 1252902028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not doesn't rhyme with poem. So you failed already! < 1252902029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "poem" rhymes with "shit" < 1252902040 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ABCB, genius. < 1252902040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your rhyming scheme, not a single line there rhymes < 1252902048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doesn't rhyme with it, dude. < 1252902048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heheheh. < 1252902087 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT < 1252902149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEOT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SHIT < 1252902161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best poem ever. < 1252902179 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in ehird's view of the universe, poems have to be in the AABB rhyme scheme. < 1252902197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just wanted it to be, so I could say poeot and use the it/shit rhyme. < 1252902213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, to imply that you can arrange anything in the manner in which you shit. < 1252902224 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't rhyme \ who the fuck cares. < 1252902243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT" it's ABBB. < 1252902245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1252902262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ who the fuck cares. < 1252902271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>\t// < 1252902273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SUBVERTED YOUR INTENT < 1252902278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh damn, I didn't even intend for the third line to rhyme with the second and fourth :P < 1252902291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252902303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL ARRANGE OT < 1252902306 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the last line of a limerick is supposed to rhyme with the first. < 1252902312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the limerick. < 1252902329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ not even if you use a bucket. < 1252902369 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252902375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man with an orange \ shit < 1252902380 0 :bsmntbombdood___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1252902389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quite the poem. < 1252902406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252902418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many other paths to go down, really. < 1252902423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emo poetry: I don't know how to rhyme \ I just cry into my pillow \ in my parent's basement \ maybe I should get another piercing. < 1252902430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry < 1252902471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry: My dream's skies are like flames / they're hot and lick around / UNLIKE MY BOYFRIEND / who is never around / I'LL KILL MYSELF WITHOUT MAKING A SOUND / I can so rhyme around with around < 1252902484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / Because I'm nonconformist < 1252902499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / And not bound by any rules < 1252902510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good because it's purposefully terrible. < 1252902515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It's good because it's purposefully terrible! < 1252902522 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Black Dynamite < 1252902594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I will bite < 1252902599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though just to rhyme, just this one time < 1252902605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Black Dynamite? < 1252902608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: don't bother answering < 1252902613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to make some more wonderful poetry! < 1252902621 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a blaxploitation-ploitation movie < 1252902643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaploitation: a ploitation of the whole genre of anything-ploitation, including itself. < 1252902660 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252902662 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dynamite < 1252902682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I invented a new genre. < 1252902685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only goes one level. < 1252902697 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=10932 < 1252902706 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trailer < 1252902710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Removed by Sony Pictures" < 1252902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best trailer ever. < 1252902717 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1252902780 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, here < 1252902782 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/11/23/worth-watching-nov-23-badass-black-dynamite-trailer/ < 1252902796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no audio, so this better be good enough without. < 1252902960 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs it < 1252902974 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1252902975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, which is why I closed it. < 1252902979 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could narrate < 1252902998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think that will be necessary. < 1252903007 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either < 1252903019 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the movie looks pretty awesome in an offensive way < 1252903083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Gayniggers from Outer Space < 1252903087 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gayniggers from Outer Space (1992) \ User Rating: \ \ 6.0/10 [91]3,296 votes \ -- \ Plot: \ \ Extraterrestrial beings travel the galaxy to free men "oppressed" by females to make way for an entirely-homosexual society. | [104]full synopsis < 1252903103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black Dynamite is apparently intentionally parodic though, while Gayniggers is just really bad comedy. < 1252903110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that I still need to watch some time. < 1252903111 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252903118 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... < 1252903151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm fairly sure it cannot possibly live up to the lie of Gay Nigger Jim raping a toilet until he explodes and the song "Gay Niggers Eat Pigs and Fly on Penises Made Out of Ham and Brown Ham, Because They're Gay Niggers". < 1252903153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES! < 1252903155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES, I TELL YOU! < 1252903461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwinports.blogspot.com/ ooh < 1252903519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For people who want Windows only for the binary compatibility. < 1252903528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[tm] < 1252903568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for people who like nice shells, unix-style command-line tools, etc and would like Unix-only programs, including X11 ones, to work seamlessly with their Windows ones. < 1252903614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is hugely (but not quite *cripplingly*, unless you have a large shell script and don't want it to take many minutes) flawed environment, but what it provides is valuable and nothing quite matches that. < 1252903640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a very hostile command-line environment, so it's almost necessary. < 1252903683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only native binary of a shell is UnxUtil's zsh, which is ancient (last updated in 2003, or 2007 depending on whose dates you believe), and it isn't stable on Windows 7, at least (crashes a lot, some other weird bugs) < 1252903710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although GnuWin32 offers some GNU tools (but not a shell), that's still a limited set. < 1252903720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin Ports is a good effort. < 1252903783 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh < 1252903788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got severel native POSIX binaries on my Windows VM. < 1252903788 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So somehow you just haven't heard of MSYS? < 1252903796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I was hoping you'd say that! < 1252903802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including /bin/sh, /bin/ksh, and /opt/gentoo/bin/bash < 1252903818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, they're not Win32 binaries at all. < 1252903821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is an outdated fork of Cygwin, and has all the same flaws except it's fucking old. Furthermore, it has a fixed set of tools: if you want anything more, you have to have a patched version of gcc 2. < 1252903828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use a patched version < 1252903830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Interix. < 1252903841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: In conclusion, wow, no way MSYS is superior to Cygwin. < 1252903851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its only advantage is that it automatically translates Unix paths to Windows ones if you call a non-MSYS tool. < 1252903872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gcc 3, iirc. But I might try it sometime. < 1252903881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I don't particularly want to compile too much stuff myself. < 1252903883 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A) I never claimed that it was, I merely said that there was another native binary shell, MSYS'. B) I strongly suspect that your statements about MSYS are more outdated than MSYS is. < 1252903886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know gcc 4 is available) < 1252903893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is not a native binary shell. < 1252903896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a DLL, just like Cygwin. < 1252903904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the DLL is a modified version of an old version of Cygwin. < 1252903911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And absolutely false, I used it a day or two ago. < 1252903914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: GCC 4 works on it, it's just not the default. < 1252903936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not even meant to compile stuff for MSYS, which is why it's such a bitch. It is purely meant as a fixed development environment for using MinGW in. < 1252903939 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I'm going to have to go boot up Windows just because I'm so convinced that you're full of shit. < 1252903940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prefix and Debian's Interix port install it, IIRC. < 1252903950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which bit, exactly, do you think is false? < 1252903958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want a Linux distribution. < 1252904018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, you don't want a POSIX environment that coincidentally coexists with a Windows environment. Rather, you'd prefer Cygwin that doesn't suck. < 1252904031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I do want the former, and it's the latter. < 1252904032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ideally an OS that doesn't suck, but we can't always have that) < 1252904043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Linux distribution isn't the best POSIX environment to coexist with Windows... < 1252904114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix offers a basic POSIX environment, and Gentoo xor Debian for it just install additional packages. Kinda like MacPorts. < 1252904133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but for Debian they're *Debian* packages, patched and outdated. < 1252904142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Debian. < 1252904145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Gentoo I have to compile them myself. < 1252904160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Gentoo you have to tell them to compile and be patient. < 1252904169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit less complicated than actually compiling them. < 1252904184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's unneeded waiting, which isn't something I'm particularly good at being patient for. < 1252904188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You at least don't have to directly deal with some of the more painful build systems out there. < 1252904197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do, when they break. < 1252904213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is Windows + Microsoft stuff: not if.) < 1252904218 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fucksicle souffle. < 1252904235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AT THIS POINT, GREGORR'S REALITY IS SHATTERED] < 1252904240 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 2.95, msys-1.0.dll, garbage in a large stinking pile. < 1252904244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstanding. < 1252904254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toldya. < 1252904279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: With Cygwin, you get gcc 3 or a broken gcc 4. Booyah! < 1252904294 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With MingW you get GCC 4. < 1252904300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSYS is just a shell and related gunk. < 1252904304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MinGW doesn't do POSIX. < 1252904317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does a little bit of POSIX, and MinGW lets you compile with that. < 1252904337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't compile a *nix program for it; you can only port it. Using Win32 for the bits Windows doesn't do. < 1252904339 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. But here's a giant shock: That little bit of POSIX that Windows does is enough to appease 99% of the well-written software out there with small nudges. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... GCC 2.95. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's older than my CPU architecture. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be older than my knowledge of C. < 1252904342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY < 1252904352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ... No. < 1252904359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which is why there are whole projects designed to port *nix things to Win32. < 1252904365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including trivial things like basic utilities. < 1252904380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it Just Works! Yaaaay imaginative reality < 1252904386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic utilities are the MOST difficult to port things X_X < 1252904393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic = simple. < 1252904398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like grep. < 1252904414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep is quite well-written, grep doesn't use crazy POSIX hacks as far as I know. < 1252904418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet it's still a porting effort. < 1252904431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for every damn thing. < 1252904435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does decent chunks of POSIX.1. That gets you... File operations. < 1252904454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But guize, I heard it passed all the POSIX tests!!!111 < 1252904480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Also, it doesn't even have mmap() or fork(). < 1252904489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is understandable, mmap() less so: breaks tons of shit. < 1252904508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is only POSIX compliant if you use the POSIX subsystem. < 1252904517 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point for mmap. < 1252904520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion: Cygwin is the only real option. Apart from *maybe* Interix. < 1252904528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a bit different from what people are used to from Windows. < 1252904539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the only real option is to throw Windows in the dumpster. < 1252904545 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252904546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even the freaking filesystem magically changes behavior) < 1252904548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use an OS that doesn't stink to all hell. < 1252904564 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: For non-command-liney stuff, I've found Windows superior to "modern" desktop Linux distributions so far. < 1252904580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its internals and command line environment are shit. < 1252904594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steps out before the OS war silliness kills us all. < 1252904600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has so much momentum behind it that the day-to-day desktop stuff is quite easy to make not suck. < 1252904607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh, feel free to argue. I love arguing! < 1252904614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its GUI makes a 15 year old X environment look consistent. < 1252904633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use bad software < 1252904643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And almost all of it is bad. < 1252904652 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do make it easy to write bad software :) < 1252904655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to Sturgeon's Law. Windows is the biggest platform, therefore... < 1252904662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even software that comes with it is rather bad) < 1252904669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that doesn't blend in atm that I actually use is Chrome, because its toolbar widgets have a custom gradient on and the icons are custom. < 1252904673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's so subtle as to be irrelevant. < 1252904681 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 7's Explorer is actually decent. < 1252904714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they made that not blatantly different from everything else? < 1252904769 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904769 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252904771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most directories use the pleasing list-with-columns view with sane default sizes. There's a customisable shortcut toolbar to the left, and a field in which you can navigate up and down the directory structure at any point. < 1252904772 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252904777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also serves as a go-to-location field. < 1252904811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a search field for the current directory (you can change where you want to search after hitting enter) next to that, and all the common option f a file are in a changing toolbar below these. < 1252904817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good. < 1252904855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the file you're hovering over is highlighted, which is nice for picking a file out of a long list. < 1252904868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far better than XP's Explorer, which is worthless. < 1252904909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You neglect that Chrome also magically doesn't have a titlebar. < 1252904918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but it does. < 1252904920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike every other Windows program. < 1252904928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and XP, it uses the native titlebar. < 1252904932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just nudges the tabs up into it. < 1252904934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252904936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and 7 < 1252904943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Google_Chrome.png < 1252904958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? That's what a titlebar looks like with Aero. < 1252904959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, there, is inconsistency. < 1252904968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, it's just different UI design. < 1252904976 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explorer doesn't have title text either; it doesn't need it < 1252904981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1252904985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right below is the hierarchy field < 1252904986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Every titlebar has no text in it, no icon, and "Google" right next to the minimize button? < 1252905002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has no icon, its back/forwards buttons are in the toolbar, along with the location and search field. < 1252905004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Explorer. < 1252905026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's only difference is the Google logo (which is unnoticeable), and the fact that the tabs are a little higher than what Explorer does. < 1252905028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... My point is that doing that shit *sucks giant donkey balls*. < 1252905032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1252905033 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still double-click where the icon should be to close explorer, if you happen to be in a windows 3.1 frame of mind. < 1252905034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly usable. < 1252905053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is OS X "inconsistent" because its toolbar icons are in the "title bar" gradient? < 1252905054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252905066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing things differently from all the other programs on the same OS for no good reason. < 1252905076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it isn't different from all other programs. < 1252905081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is standard Vista-style UI fare. < 1252905087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? No program has text in the title bar? < 1252905092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No icons? < 1252905106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And control widgets are where the text would be in previous iterations of Windows? < 1252905108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In pikhq's world, every program has the exact same UI and does the same thing because otherwise it'd be different from every other program on the same OS < 1252905122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not true. In Explorer they're lower down. < 1252905124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides < 1252905125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chromee < 1252905127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chrome < 1252905128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that every tab is the window < 1252905138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tab you're on is the title < 1252905140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ehird's world, forming a strawman is a valid criticism. < 1252905145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing exactly the right thing for its UI < 1252905160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Chrome's design, that's how it's meant to be: there is no browser UI, the tab is the title bar. < 1252905178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be happy if it was slightly higher up and didn't have a background? That's ridiculous. < 1252905195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers consistent UIs. I even tended to avoid using KDE/Qt programs in GNOME and GNOME/GTK+ programs in KDE < 1252905225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be happy if it were consistent with other programs' look and feel, rather than creating a custom title bar. < 1252905250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't custom if other fucking programs do it < 1252905255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not some weird Chrome thing < 1252905262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all < 1252905265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might not be "custom", but it's annoying < 1252905276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no it's not. Have you ever USED Chrome on Vista/7? < 1252905279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some weird "some random set of programs do it". < 1252905280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely unnoticeable and perfectly designed. < 1252905293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: INCLUDING THE FLAGSHIP ORGANIZER SHIPPED WITH THE OS < 1252905304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MY POINT IS THAT EVEN THE PROGRAMS THAT COME WITH IT SUCK. < 1252905305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also does the system settings < 1252905307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them < 1252905314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most programs do it Chrome's/Explorer's way? < 1252905315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY RANDOMLY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY FOR NO GOOD REASON. < 1252905322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, no point discussing this; you've used XP and think you nkow what's consistent or good or not in 7 < 1252905325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1252905330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, carry on thinking that < 1252905332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you talk about XP, you definately have a point < 1252905349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the typical UI is on Vista or 7 < 1252905361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, newer programs keep the Aero UI in XP, with some widgets changed. < 1252905362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, silly! He's talking about an OS he knows from a few screenshots and anecdotes. In other words, he's an expert. < 1252905373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...what? No. No they don't. < 1252905376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not true whatsoever. < 1252905378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are simply wrong. < 1252905396 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"dalnet" < 1252905424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way Chrome looks in XP is inconsistent with most XP programs < 1252905430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is < 1252905432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am arguing on 7 < 1252905434 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252905441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is too, except he doesn't know shit about 7 < 1252905468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently in 7 the title bar is meaningless. < 1252905487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius deductions based on anecdote and one screenshot, pal. < 1252905494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're clever. < 1252905500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Non sequitur. < 1252905502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant. < 1252905512 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title is unnecessary in explorer because the breadcrumb bar tells you everything you need to know < 1252905515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it's not as if the Explorer title bar is like that BECAUSE THE TITLE OF THE FOLDER YOU'RE IN is in the title bar. < 1252905527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it should be redundant and keep that below the fold while ALSO putting it in the window title. < 1252905532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that makes sense. < 1252905542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternate universe: "So, apparently in 7 the title bar is redundant." < 1252905557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More sense then only some programs having any information in the title bar at all. < 1252905564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1252905567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLORER HAS THE INFORMATION IN THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[icon] > Computer > Local Disk (C:) >" < 1252905581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the folder I am in. < 1252905584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be in the title bar. < 1252905586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS IN THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks to be below the title bar to me. < 1252905604 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the glassy area, so I suppose that counts < 1252905606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the transparent area above the window contents, i.e. THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can move the window by it. < 1252905624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. THE TITLE BAR < 1252905641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Drag the glass area below the field. Voila, moving. That's what the title bar does.) < 1252905665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So UI elements are being stuck in the title bar? < 1252905712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252905725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You mean like the program icon, title text, minimize, maximize and close? < 1252905736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound like UI elements to me. < 1252905755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was poorly phrased. < 1252905767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also click the program icon for a menu. < 1252905769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI element! < 1252905780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per-program UI elements that are inherently different for each program. < 1252905794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called discretion. < 1252905798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You complained that the title bar was bad because it has no information. < 1252905805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Explorer, the relevant information IS in the title bar. < 1252905821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also navigable, which is required of such a widget anyway: anything else would be redundance. < 1252905830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I continue to see a null title bar and an inexplicably glassy portion of the program. < 1252905831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Chrome, the title of the page IS in the title bar, and highlighted: it's the current tab. < 1252905835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of these usages are consistent. < 1252905843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They contain the correct information in the correct way. < 1252905863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can right click the glassy region below the "widgets" to get the window menu, too. < 1252905868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is undeniably the title bar. < 1252905886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't see it that way after using 7 for some time, unless you're really UI-blind. < 1252905913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact Explorer would be better if it lifted those elements to the top of the title bar, like Chrome. < 1252905927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the title bar has some weird padding at the top. < 1252905932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I continue to see things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Notepad_Vista.png < 1252905940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and? < 1252905949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file location is in the title bar. < 1252905954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you want. < 1252905962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's the window menu, and then its contents. < 1252905965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has quite different titlebar behavior from Explorer or Chrome. < 1252905973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252905973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1252906040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's quite different. The titlebar is a different size and it shows quite different information. < 1252906043 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252906076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I will ever change your mind because you have preconceived notions of what is correct and are only engaging in this to convince me, not to bother to be convinced otherwise. I deduce this from your style of debate and persistence. < 1252906084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to prove me wrong. < 1252906103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Explorer titlebar doesn't even show the title. Just a directory hierarchy. < 1252906118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be shown in the title bar. < 1252906121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory hierarchy. < 1252906134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what Explorer's title bar has ALWAYS shown. < 1252906203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that showing "Explorer" in the task bar would be more useful then showing the directory hierarchy < 1252906211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're being sarcastic. < 1252906217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? < 1252906219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252906226 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the task bar, you just get the folder name < 1252906239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 7 titlebar groups windows into applications (like the OS X Dock but better) and the Window title for other programs is what it used to be. < 1252906243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not... although I just considered the possibility of multiple Explorer windows, so nevermind < 1252906247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, Explorer windows, well, look like Explorer Windows. < 1252906251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not very useful. < 1252906253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windows < 1252906280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants every damned program to look the same. < 1252906300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a ridiculously ill-defined notion. < 1252906318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably be eating or something < 1252906319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 has a consistent UI look; you just think it doesn't based on preconceived misconceptions, and I will not convince you otherwise, at least not by talking on IRC. < 1252906333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on how you define "consistent UI look" < 1252906341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I said. < 1252906362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a ridiculously ill-defined notion, but for any definition that isn't close to "every program should have identical graphics and therefore do exactly the same thing" 7 has it. < 1252906380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Aero, it looks to me almost like doing Qt and GTK on the same system, with them having themes that emulate each other. You get Notepad, which looks like an XP app with a shiny theme, and Explorer, which looks like it's for a *different OS* and happens to have the same widgets. < 1252906386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Explorer's title bar is exceedingly usable, so fuck any incorrect ideological notions. < 1252906402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It does not. You are using preconceived blah blah blah I don't give a shit, you're just repeating the same crap.. < 1252906407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1252906412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels dizzy in his attempt to minorly disagree with ehird < 1252906420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Imagine if Windows Explorer did the same thing on OS X. < 1252906423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I attempt to make that as difficult as possible! < 1252906431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was a bad sentence. < 1252906435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Imagine if a Windows program was on OS X! Wouldn't it be DIFFERENT? < 1252906442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit, sherlock. < 1252906445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... -_-' < 1252906452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the title bar area in OS X also includes the WHOLE toolbar. < 1252906456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now you're just being a asshat shitcock fuckoff. < 1252906460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just the bit relevant to the thing at hand, like the path. < 1252906463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ignore ehird < 1252906469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, it's as though I have this notion in my mind that everything ehird says is correct < 1252906498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, so while I try to end the argument by mildly cursing and saying I don't care anymore, pikhq calls me an asshat shitcock, tells me to fuck off, and sticks his fingers in his ear. < 1252906501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's totally true. < 1252906503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252906528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If I said that's false, would your brain overheat and would steam come out of your ears? < 1252906558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because I'd get the joke. However, this response to that joke just killed the joke. < 1252906579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns himself in for murdering a joke. < 1252906624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly not everything I say is correct. This is actually true and serious, no joke. < 1252906658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I think I'd have difficulty recognizing when you're wrong. < 1252906687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much identical to saying "If I have an opinion about something, and you have one and it differs I'll disagree" which is... fairly obvious... < 1252906713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you intentionally saying incorrect things now to see how I'd react? < 1252906720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the same at all < 1252906722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no < 1252906737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it is, the only way to determine whether something is true or false that you can agree with is to use your opinions < 1252906767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that if you state an opinion, my mind is likely to adapt that opinion before looking at it critically < 1252906780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will use this for nefarious purposes. < 1252907050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weighs up windows: shit desktop and linux: shit command line... < 1252907062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really would quite like a Cygwin GHC for a Cygwin darcs... < 1252907066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be a huge porting effort < 1252907100 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252907160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be possible/sensible to make a C library of some of the Python standard library < 1252907182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1252907216 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, it depends which part < 1252907218 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252907251 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252907260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's so different to C that it'd be unnatural < 1252907319 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did say it depends which part. Integer manipulation for example already exists in C. < 1252907364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking more like urllib2. Isn't integer manipulation more a part of the language? < 1252907405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urllib2: use libcurl < 1252907444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does CPython use libcurl? < 1252907447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't know < 1252907449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: look at http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/simple.html < 1252907452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcurl is easy < 1252907471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/sepheaders.html more fleshed out example < 1252907479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(downloads a page and its headers into two files) < 1252907521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at curlpp < 1252907559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you using C++? < 1252907569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it's what I'm learning in college right now :/ < 1252907580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a good reason :P < 1252907589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curlpp.org/index.php/examples/47-example-00 < 1252907601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a direct binding of libcurl (except uglier) < 1252907603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be fine < 1252907635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need to make a curlpp::Cleanup ? < 1252907647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get how that works < 1252907653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still looks nonsensical < 1252907660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA, I guess. < 1252907665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAEr. < 1252907665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA? < 1252907666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1252907668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAII < 1252907678 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRR < 1252907679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when the Cleanup is destroyed, it deallocates and stuff. < 1252907697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the request because you could do multiple requests. < 1252907698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1252907765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, good night all < 1252907770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252908360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised why SPUI was called that < 1252908362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Spui-schematic.svg/792px-Spui-schematic.svg.png < 1252908594 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1252908619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: SPUI had a bunch of joking/trolly references to anal sex on his page < 1252908663 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes both ways... uh... < 1252908673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the underpass... < 1252908685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it looks like goatse. < 1252908695 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... oh god... < 1252908698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252908756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(His page made reference to "single point urban interchange" and he was mostly known for editing transport (including motorway) articles, so it's almost certainly the same thing, even if he didn't see the goatse, which I doubt.) < 1252908761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk about long-term trolling. < 1252908768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he was mostly known for trolling, but. < 1252908843 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i am coming up with ideas for a language on parrot < 1252908847 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((|> + str) 5 "string") < 1252908856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parrot's just a VM. < 1252908860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what that could do in this hypothetical language is create the left->right junction of the results of (+ 5 "string") and (str 5 "string") < 1252908862 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1252908869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252908880 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is easier to implement things on there than on, say, C+yacc < 1252908915 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions are from perl 6, and i can steal from their implementation < 1252908942 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prefix notation is from lisp, but i don't think i will just use () parentheses < 1252908943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, being on Parrot isn't a feature of the language. < 1252908948 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1252908951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252908961 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant that was how i was going to do it < 1252909028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252909038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fairly amazing if someone wrote a parrot bytecode -> java bytecode converter < 1252909048 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is already the reverse of that < 1252909058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1252909063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jvm sucks < 1252909070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252909076 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prefer C? < 1252909080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say that? < 1252909080 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .NET? < 1252909099 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just guessing? < 1252909101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vm has a startup time so slow it's worthless for command-line tools, the standard library is awkward and verbose to use < 1252909116 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1252909117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't actually that many additional libraries for it as the jvmists claim < 1252909128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its primary GUI library, Swing, is unspeakably bad < 1252909135 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1252909163 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://substance.dev.java.net/see.html < 1252909209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing those skins makes me bet that it can't be made to look native. < 1252909211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1252909219 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT < 1252909221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, I don't have the JVM. < 1252909224 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT has native look < 1252909233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't notice because nothing actually uses Java.) < 1252909239 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not have the JVM. < 1252909239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing desktop, anyway.) < 1252909256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: all vm people think theirs is ubiquitous and mandatory :-) < 1252909270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing with that title on a typical internet-connected desktop is flash < 1252909277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i use mac, and all macs come with... python, perl, ruby, and java 5+ < 1252909285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is that no command-line program uses java, no desktop program uses java < 1252909297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: i'm actually using Windows 7 right now, but I'm a *nixer < 1252909312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although all OSs right now are woefully inadequate and wasteful < 1252909314 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your sweepping generalizations make me think less of your opinion < 1252909329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd matter if I was looking to sway your opinion < 1252909349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm merely stating my experience; no popular program on Windows uses Java apart from OpenOffice, and that only uses it for some things behind the scenes < 1252909357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I find the same applies to Linux and OS X < 1252909509 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limewire and eclipse are two big ones < 1252909526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LimeWire, granted, but LimeWire sucks big time. < 1252909540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is only popular with Java developers. (Don't say that C thing. Nobody uses it.) < 1252909563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is slow, but it has helped me a lot < 1252909574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it's popular outside of a niche community < 1252909589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's really overly bloated. Does seven billion things, does none of them well... < 1252909604 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like emacs < 1252909607 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Java < 1252909618 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also like windows and linux < 1252909629 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac does even less things than eithe rof those < 1252909664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is also terrible < 1252909671 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you edit with? < 1252909674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a surprising number of sharp, compact windows tools < 1252909686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux with the typical gnucrap doesn't do it, indeed < 1252909708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: right now? i edit small files with notepad2 or programmer's notepad, because I haven't got anything set up for that stuff. < 1252909718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on os x i mostly used textmate because all the other os x editors suck < 1252909726 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any large projects? < 1252909732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for haskell and lisp I used emacs < 1252909739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: depends how you define large < 1252909761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define it high enough, that project is too big to exist (or is it too big to fail? let's bail out Eclipse) < 1252909778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm absolutely fine as long as I have a file switcher tree of the project to the left < 1252909780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tabs < 1252909794 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 1000 LoC in C/++? not small enough to be written and maintained effortlessly < 1252909795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a window switcher list might be better than tabs if I have an awful lot of files open < 1252909802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find I rarely actually actively edit more than a few files < 1252909814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: 1000? that's a ridiculously low bar, any non-trivial C program will be above that < 1252909818 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably over 400 in haskell < 1252909829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: xmonad is like 500 lines... < 1252909833 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was just going for "not a script" < 1252909836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a fully-featured window manager that a ton of people use daily < 1252909898 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252909898 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252909901 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252910051 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you remind me of myself when I'm not on my meds < 1252910063 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very active and argumentative < 1252910084 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also write a lot more than when i am < 1252910472 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252910520 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"On the other hand, you have different fingers." < 1252910564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252910583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: I'm not argumentative, I'm just not adding obvious qualifiers like "I think" < 1252910592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is commonly misinterpreted as argumentativeness < 1252910620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i make sweeping generalizations when i don't take my meds < 1252910639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am less articulate than you are right now < 1252910646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to avoid meds :P < 1252910668 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to keep taking meds < 1252910679 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps me make friends and not go to jail < 1252910696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have plenty friends, thank you, and I've never committed any harmful crime < 1252910698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252910712 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't talking about you there < 1252910728 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably aren't bipolar < 1252910748 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't have Ragin' Cajun Syndrome either < 1252910794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking :) < 1252910805 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many more coders than non-coders have aspergers, myself included < 1252910829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you aren't another of the self-diagnosed aspergers as an excuse for social incompetency camp... < 1252910832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are way, way too many of those < 1252910834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asperger's syndrome: great syndrome, or the greatest syndrome? < 1252910859 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, i definitely have it < 1252910870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagnosed? < 1252910873 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 4 doctors would testify in court < 1252910890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, now my only qualm is the incredible vagueness of its definition :-P < 1252910910 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them shouldn't have been given birth certificates, much less doctorates... < 1252910934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as someone who has been tentatively-diagnosed (but not diagnosed) with aspergers, after researching I find it a shaky and dubious vagueness...) < 1252910975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is pretty useful when you just want to do one thing < 1252910981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252910997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I find it dubious as a condition < 1252911001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people with asperger's tend to be abnormally good at focusing on a specific task that they are born to do < 1252911008 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"born to do" < 1252911014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1252911018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not born to do anything < 1252911030 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the air quotes < 1252911057 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i typed the quotes with fingers in the air < 1252911070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an impressive feat < 1252911140 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a knack for game development, which has less to do with the asperger's giving me skill and more to do with the asperger's making me especially interested in the subject < 1252911199 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, i get too interested in the designs and i start switching around to the game that interests me most at the given time < 1252911206 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the bipolar not the AS < 1252911206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of the things that are claimed Asperger's brings. < 1252911222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That sentence is truly awkward.) < 1252911234 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awkward this sentence is truly < 1252911247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least mine was valid in a non-poetic sense. < 1252911259 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that's argumentative < 1252911271 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least competitive < 1252911275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth is that argumentative? < 1252911297 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be trying to prove your statements are better < 1252911318 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite mine being ajoke < 1252911327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, play it again, Freud. I was joking that my sentence was a funner example of an awkward sentence since an invalid sentence outside of a poetic context is just that, not awkward. < 1252911349 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, we have aspergers! we can't identify jokes < 1252911360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew yours was a joke, actually. < 1252911371 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, you don't have aspergers < 1252911378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have... < 1252911384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously we weren't seriously debating the relative merits of awkward sentences... < 1252911385 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin cajun syndrome < 1252911393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously! Issue: I'm British. < 1252911408 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was named after dr. ragin' cajun < 1252911420 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symptoms: < 1252911422 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin < 1252911426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cajun < 1252911429 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, symptom < 1252911438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot cajuning. < 1252911465 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are you a quack doctor like me now? :-P < 1252911480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having seen enough of them, i should know their tricks < 1252911494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an inverse homeopath < 1252911511 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you love you some western medicine < 1252911520 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1252911529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start with water, and continually dilute it in the thing that causes the ailment until there's less than one part in a trillion water < 1252911533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I give it to the patient < 1252911538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they, uh < 1252911540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually die. < 1252911556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state considers me a homicidal murderer, but I prefer inverse homeopath < 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kid went to my school who gave up gluten to see if it would stop his high-functioning autism < 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't < 1252911580 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was still an annoying moron < 1252911587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that even mean? "I want to become a social idiot?" < 1252911609 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, gluten rules < 1252911640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make meat with added gluten. < 1252911645 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quorn < 1252911646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be, like, the best thing ever. To eat. < 1252911658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quorn doesn't have any meat, dude. < 1252911669 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is meat+ < 1252911670 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn < 1252911673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1252911674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's protein < 1252911675 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has eggs < 1252911677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat < 1252911683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dead flesh < 1252911701 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unliving flesh < 1252911707 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg whites count as that < 1252911721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no < 1252911726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is meat, egg is just an animal product. < 1252911729 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do egg yolks? < 1252911753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat unless it's the same flesh as would be if it was alive and then died. < 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg yolks become meat < 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-meat < 1252911764 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm going to fry up some pre-chickens, you want any?" < 1252911772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lab-created never-living flesh counts, dead animal flesh counts < 1252911773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else < 1252911779 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1252911784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is DELICIOUS (well, just the latter at the moment) < 1252911784 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil then < 1252911797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it < 1252911801 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crude oil is long-dead animal flesh < 1252911816 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also plant material < 1252911818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buuuuuuuuullshit < 1252911822 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1252911825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not flesh, it's stuff that used to be flesh < 1252911830 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like meat? < 1252911836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is flesh. < 1252911854 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does meat cease to be flesh? < 1252911857 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cook a steak < 1252911859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY MEAT DAMNIT < 1252911860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn a steak < 1252911899 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am designing a language, i have to be precise here and count for all interpretations :-P < 1252911909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your programming language includes a notion of meat? < 1252911913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome! < 1252911946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am in programing-language-design mode, is what i mean < 1252911954 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anal-retentive < 1252911990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca retends anuses < 1252911991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this chatroom could help < 1252912004 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my anus-retending < 1252912018 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252912022 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want this language to have 3 big features: < 1252912040 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code-as-data, currying, and junctions < 1252912040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Careful, you've set me into ruthlessly-criticise-language mode. < 1252912042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY BE FLAMMABLE. < 1252912053 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from lisp, haskell, and perl 6 < 1252912068 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, you like lisp and haskell well enough < 1252912071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a junction is, but damnit, I cannot possibly criticize the other two < 1252912084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck :P < 1252912097 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions allow a datum to be two or more things at once < 1252912129 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Junctions < 1252912151 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it better than i can in short messages < 1252912160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, superpositions. < 1252912167 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252912182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're nice. When I started programming I was always baffled I couldn't do (foo == (1 | 2 | 3)). < 1252912189 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the addition is here is ordered unctions < 1252912193 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*junctions < 1252912245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds scary. < 1252912249 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have the ordered junction of two functions, you can iterate through the junction returned until you find a result that isn't an error < 1252912257 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funjun < 1252912277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a ca, so you can have a cajun < 1252912278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252912282 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl 6, they are always unordered < 1252912282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\?/?/ < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations, uh... < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cojun... < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1252912383 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail just gave me a sweet ad < 1252912384 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mongolia Travel - www.DiscoverMongolia.mn - Tours, Hotels, Flights and Trains. Get Affordable Rates. Book Today! < 1252912418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you thought that Mongolia was just the land of Genghis Khan, think again." < 1252912420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1252912422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was just booking my ticket < 1252912455 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of calling this language Khan back when it was more like haskell in syntax < 1252912480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because genghis khan used arrows extensively, as would this language < 1252912485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252912497 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i don't know < 1252912502 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did make a nice logo < 1252912586 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3396/khano.png i think < 1252912600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst maze ever < 1252912613 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is phags-pa < 1252912620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language used by the khans < 1252912625 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(later khans) < 1252912639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says qa-yan, translated as khan < 1252912778 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, it needs little pictures of scooby-doo and the various things that aren't the guy wearing a mask < 1252912786 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one image of the guy who is < 1252912801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1252912810 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have hanna-barbara cartoons in britain, you aren't missing out < 1252912817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we do < 1252912821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to figure out the relevance :P < 1252912826 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maze < 1252912834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a little kid's thing < 1252912836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst reference ever :P < 1252912843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1252912847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like those puzzle things on easter eggs and shit < 1252912851 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252912864 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it so no one would use the language < 1252912869 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a worthy goal...? < 1252912888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1252912922 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnipotent benevolent personified deity, the great Satan? < 1252912975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at christianity today, it seems like satan gets credited with more than the benevolent side of god < 1252912984 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and god causes hurricane katrina < 1252912991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can't be benevolent < 1252913000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... christians are irrational? < 1252913001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that leaves satan < 1252913002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never would I ever have guessed. < 1252913012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not "today"; god kills far more people than satan in the bible < 1252913016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's kind of a dick. < 1252913023 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :satan isn't in the old testament < 1252913031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was talking about god < 1252913036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(omg lowercase) < 1252913038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the serpent is < 1252913048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat. < 1252913070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiiiiiiiiii coppro < 1252913075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if god gets capitalized pronouns, there's got to be something wrong with spelling his name uncapitalized < 1252913085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, wrong religion, not angkor wat < 1252913089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: hi < 1252913098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g*d < 1252913100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix < 1252913105 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you a professional cop or a reference to coprophilia? < 1252913110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither < 1252913111 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the former < 1252913113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither < 1252913118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we joke about the latter! < 1252913129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you suck. eat shit! < 1252913130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1252913132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO < 1252913133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I deride your ability to read < 1252913140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I actually thought *nix was like g*d when I was young, before ever using any *nix < 1252913141 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii < 1252913151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like programmers exalted unix so much that they refused to spell the u < 1252913153 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great < 1252913156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like jews and shit with g*d < 1252913163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'looooooooooooooooo < 1252913166 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only programmers could agree on something < 1252913184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix doesn't even make any sense, it's not Linix < 1252913191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even Freanix < 1252913192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n?x < 1252913198 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x < 1252913202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so BSD is out then? < 1252913211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that second ? is odd < 1252913213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a Unx < 1252913216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{*n?x,*BSD} < 1252913221 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what happened with judaism not allowing YHWH to be spoken and the Jehovah's Witnesses making the romanization of YHWH into the name of their religion? < 1252913228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1252913236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Solaris < 1252913240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ssh < 1252913242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Jehovah's Witnesses < 1252913255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like jehovah's poopnesses < 1252913263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite < 1252913268 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jehovah's witness knocks on a rabbi's door < 1252913273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, what about ssh? I think you mean *shh :P < 1252913277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbi covers his ears, goes "lalalalalala" < 1252913296 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i would too < 1252913311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1252913321 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been very nice to jehovah's witnesses when they come to the door < 1252913326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a really bad joke: < 1252913327 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when i close the door < 1252913329 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i yelll < 1252913332 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAIL SATAN < 1252913335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Irishman walks out of the door. < 1252913346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a bar. < 1252913348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs sleep < 1252913359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had the opportunity of conversing with a jehovah's witness < 1252913365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not a foo? < 1252913369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to have them go away deeply disturbed at this satanic 14-year-old < 1252913369 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, are you mssing out < 1252913378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on nothing < 1252913380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i guess by 14 they can chalk it off to teenage rebellion < 1252913381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame < 1252913389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: yeah they seem very boring < 1252913392 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an old guy to do it < 1252913400 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or answer the door < 1252913404 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just speak in tongues < 1252913410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x would match qnx, although it's debatable whether that's a good thing. < 1252913420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252913427 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qnx? < 1252913430 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a thing? < 1252913441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real-timey sort of an OS. < 1252913454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aimed primarily at the embedded systems market". < 1252913576 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1252913587 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this channel is heating up < 1252913604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got to go in another ~20 mins < 1252913611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( embedded systems < 1252913611 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not a binary not < 1252913637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefly: you're 20 minutes late. Go now! < 1252913645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I start in 50 minutes < 1252913688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the unary binary not. < 1252913699 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1252913709 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... ouch... < 1252913709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just said it's "not". < 1252913725 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there the lack of a comma after "No" has an important meaning < 1252913750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not that not, then it must be the Awk regular-expression matching operator, but it doesn't really seem to make sense there. < 1252913772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, #nethack has gotten into a MMO debate < 1252913783 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages isn't ~ the marker for negative numbers? < 1252913802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1252913806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also, of course, used for matching < 1252913815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, but can't name one right now. < 1252913835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course also the INTERCAL "select" operator. < 1252913842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's binary < 1252913870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my chicken scratchings, ~ usually ends up as being used for matching < 1252913878 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Always actually spell out "approx." when in #esoteric < 1252913892 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid discussions about the choice of symbol < 1252913897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think this pedanticness is annoying. < 1252913935 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying? < 1252913939 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define annoying < 1252913943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying. < 1252913946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252913965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~ being used as the "matches" operator, which may be cheaper, for instance because an RE engine doesn't need to capture < 1252913997 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way round, if I decide that double-symbols mean bitwise and single mean logical < 1252914061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is video game music so awesome? < 1252914077 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252914089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked that before. < 1252914093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is that it isn't for the most part. < 1252914199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to get audio working here sometime. < 1252914207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again Cygwin's crappiness is putting me off this. < 1252914232 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252914289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did I? < 1252914303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A day or two ago. < 1252914312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No answers, though. < 1252914347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252914392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game music isn't necessarily the best out there, but it beats the hell out of the radio < 1252914421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does everything. < 1252914646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252914699 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252914824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers getting Arch Linux working < 1252914836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed pretty badly the last time... < 1252915008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even sure if Chromium is usable on Linux yet... nor do I know if there's a better graphical IRC client than X-Chat... graphical IRC on linux tends to suck ime < 1252915120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the font rendering beats ClearType... although not the fonts. < 1252915172 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to school -> < 1252915189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252915199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252915200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252915872 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252916023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool Should I try to install Arch Linux? < 1252916037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? < 1252916039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916040 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance. < 1252916058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916059 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? < 1252916067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916067 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance... again. < 1252916075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916076 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252916081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you. < 1252916172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot's quite a waffler. < 1252916311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you both think I should try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7 and are sure? < 1252916313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252916316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1252916344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio. < 1252916357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: gliosperous < 1252916413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252916424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1252916558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gliovorous fog < 1252916585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio becoming gliosperous in the gliovorous fog < 1252916608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who wouldn't become sperous in a fog that's out to get you < 1252916628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do my swedish homework :| < 1252916640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork bork bork < 1252916684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: should i < 1252917032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1252917040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252917046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know everything < 1252917049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do my swedish homework and maybe i will < 1252917055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1252917117 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although transcribing the a4 article to you in priv might be slightly more work than just reading it < 1252917255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyone read complexity theory companion? it looks rather promising < 1252917285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252917366 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Be more esoteric!" < 1252917499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity theory is very esoteric, actually the whole preface of the book is about how esoteric it is < 1252917747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should teach courses on random shit < 1252917764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most people view complexity theory as an arcane realm populated by pointy-hatted (if not indeed pointy-headed) sorcerers stirring cauldrons of recursion theory with wands of combinatorics, while chanting incantations involving complexity classes whose very names contain hundreds of characters and sear the tongues of mere mortals" < 1252917778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the deal is, someone gives you some money and then they can go wherever you are and you teach them about a random esoteric topic that you haven't before, unplanned < 1252917788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like once a week for three months < 1252917792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great < 1252917800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 10 people doing it < 1252917824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great, but i'm not a very good teacher :) < 1252917835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end you'd have a grasp of theundecidable asymptomatic complexity theory when applied to faux-regular metalanguages < 1252917837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the undecidable < 1252917838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to be slightly too formal < 1252917840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff < 1252917853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*also, only one space before the < 1252917866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to bake cauliflower using only two sticks < 1252917892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to use a fire to power a computer, explained with a shitload of esoteric physics < 1252917904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cyclic syntactical structures of fractal systems < 1252917909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1252917990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, those are my areas of expertise. < 1252917999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1252918028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything about graphs ever < 1252918192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read half of the material of our graph theory course (for funsies), i knew about 3/50 of the theorems beforehand < 1252918249 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, more, but stll i wouldn't say i know *any* graph theory < 1252918251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1252918260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically just know what graphs are < 1252918266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252918268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are sexy beasts < 1252918276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd learn it < 1252918278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while teaching us < 1252918279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1252918288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, sitting there with a textbook < 1252918303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very long latency < 1252918331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish they lectured the graph theory course this year too, was too busy to take it last year < 1252918345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1252918352 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually they wait a few years before repeating < 1252918365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean business. < 1252918384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most students use at least 3 years for their master's < 1252918389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are lazy < 1252918390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1252918407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was pretty busy, not as busy as i am now, but anyway < 1252918537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were actually a few courses i didn't take just because i thought i had enough. < 1252918565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which naturally bugs me to death, have to fight the urge to do the homework for those courses just because < 1252918637 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i am done. < 1252918641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a distributed computing (the theoretical aspect of it, no engineeringy things) seminar course about a book; the professor hadn't read it, and said that he just arranged the seminar course to have the students present the contents to help motivate him to read it, as well as to find the interesting parts. < 1252918651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's game theory time < 1252918669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252918725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory? more like lame theory < 1252918734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252918734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252918743 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252918805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory is fun < 1252918809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME < 1252918811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEORY < 1252918891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecturer sucks though, much of what he says is incomprehensible because of his weird accent, and the homework usually lacks some of the crucial definitions, so you have to guess the question first < 1252918918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1252918935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, i was being on your side there < 1252918942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just yawning < 1252918944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i am most tired < 1252918954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally learned to suppress a yawn < 1252918965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually used the last lecture to train it < 1252918968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do that, but it makes me feel like crap < 1252918985 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you forget you were about to yawn < 1252918989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252919008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant by suppressing, obviously anyone can just *not yawn* < 1252919044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can your mother < 1252919046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1252919060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt she's interested in random body control exercises. < 1252919072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they involve HER GENITALIA < 1252919076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252919080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1252919102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total zinger < 1252919106 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go see ya < 1252919107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252919111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i zinged your mom < 1252919113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bed < 1252919115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night < 1252919245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be so cool to father you a brother < 1252919315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1252919347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i haven't understood the concept of mum jokes yet < 1252919398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, i'd be like your stepfather, you could sit in my lap and hear stories about complexity theory < 1252919955 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, my touchpad went crazy, the pointer keeps moveing randomly in circles when i touch the pad < 1252919967 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means*moving < 1252919970 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252919996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means buttons are almost impossible to press, because you have to press at the exact right moment < 1252920066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nub ftw (I'm not having another clit joke incident) < 1252920074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit it's getting worse < 1252920075 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252920079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable the trackpad < 1252920081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the kb < 1252920088 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably restart the computer < 1252920088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn on using the numpad to mouserise < 1252920090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows < 1252920115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a numpad, and i know that, and i don't know where that is on vista, and i don't like using it < 1252920125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do, it's just fn-some letters < 1252920127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1252920132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most laptops have a numpad overlaid on fn < 1252920135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but that's even more annoying. < 1252920145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a fun challenge < 1252920158 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252920162 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i like fun challenges! < 1252920172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's control panel -> ease of access -> change mouse works blah -> turn on mouse keys on 7 at least < 1252920176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite similar to vista < 1252920188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can make it focus a window when you hover over it. < 1252920188 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather < 1252920191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useless. < 1252921253 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should've read what you said, i'm not exactly that good at navigating without the mouse < 1252921289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so searching for the mouse thing was rather hard < 1252921296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was under "make the mouse easier to use" < 1252921311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1252921319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"change how your mouse works" for me < 1252921342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at the mouse options < 1252921360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i thought that's where mouse options would be. < 1252921365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252921377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on the ctrl/shift to ac/decelerate < 1252921384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's painfully slow to get moving otherwise < 1252921407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apart from the fact i always forget to put numlock on/off, i love this < 1252921433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's as fast as it can be now, so pressing ctrl actually makes it move too fast < 1252921441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably slow it down a bit and use ctrl < 1252921455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default setting it like one pixel a sec < 1252921480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252921495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at full it's slow to get moving for me < 1252921516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't change direction without losing momentum, which is annoying < 1252921536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at full speed + ctrl, i can't move it less than half the screen < 1252921543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway now it's perfect < 1252921592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was an ui that changed constantly < 1252921597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1252921624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i pronounced it in finnish < 1252921661 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252921686 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921816 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaand i'm gone again < 1252921818 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------> < 1252921827 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252922788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252923088 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252925216 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926280 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252926322 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926535 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Police 'encouraged' to hack more < 1252926850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Home Office has signed up to an EU strategy against cybercrime that "encourages" police across Europe to remotely access personal computers.]] < 1252926851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1252926853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step closer to fascism < 1252926877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK's politics might be better (but not by much) than America's, but our day-to-day oppression is far worse < 1252927140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs install time < 1252927147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252928861 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1252928946 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252930003 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931007 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931032 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931366 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252932792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252933404 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252933825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252933826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252933917 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252933917 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252934847 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252935359 0 :ehird!n=ding@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252935385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, even in AUR it seems that arch linux has no package for the beautiful pristine Hobbit netcat, untouched by any patches < 1252935414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want IPv6, I don't want super-hardened super-ugly OpenBSD crap, I don't want whatever Debian did to it and I definitely don't want any netcat clones... just give me netcat... < 1252935435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I'll be compiling that myself. Anyone alive? I haven't installed X yet. < 1252935534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess not. I'll go install X now, and then some window manager. < 1252935536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252935575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, the "let's keep silent so ehird thinks the channel is empty" conspiracy succeeded magnificentiously. < 1252936690 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently < 1252936691 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252936875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252936875 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252936933 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252936933 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252937467 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937490 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1252937589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252937754 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252937774 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't your fspace_vector_is_cardinal (and the same thing in vector.c) have an unnecessary test? You do x = ABS(v->x), y = ABS(v->y) and then return false if x+y != 1, which is good; but then you also return false if "x && y". At that test, you already know that x+y == 1 and both are positive integers; it's not really possible for "x && y" to be true, since then x+y would be at least 2. < 1252937948 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252938070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (And related to previous, are you sure that ABS is safe? I see you cast it to unsigned, but I doubt that really helps; abs/llabs returns something signed and the documentation for them says it's undefined behaviour if the result is not representable, which it is for the -2^(N-1) case.) < 1252938539 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-162.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252940166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The former sounds like something the optimizer might pick up on. < 1252941313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm possibly < 1252941339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how comes you looked at that? < 1252941407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just browsing." I've been doing some jitfunge cleanup lately, just peeked a bit at your guts. < 1252941413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252941416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must go to shoppery now, away. < 1252941615 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-0-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252942353 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252942431 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252943909 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252943950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: the UK TV advertising wavelengths are currently satuated with insurance price comparison website adverts < 1252943956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, we need a price comparison comparison website < 1252944067 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol so meta~ < 1252944212 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252944299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo chown -R ais523:ais523 /home/ais523/.gnupg/* < 1252944313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why that ended up set to root:root anyway < 1252944424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you think of a better, but equally fast way? < 1252944435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropping the un-needed test of course < 1252944887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252945355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252945601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand Slashdot groupthink < 1252945612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's tests find that the worst-case upgrade time for Windows 7 is about 20 hours < 1252945617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot accuse Microsoft of spreading FUD < 1252945685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err. I thought slashdot was against windows 7 < 1252945688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows < 1252945690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252945695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, mostly < 1252945701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a strong counter-contingent that's in favour < 1252945711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, accusing Microsoft of spreading FUD about Windows is ridiculous < 1252945747 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252946003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252946821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, I saw a laptop with a circular touchpad today < 1252946828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252946853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a packard bell < 1252947524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any good reason to have a rectangular screen btw? < 1252947539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to pack into memory in a quick-to-unpack way < 1252947543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252947547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplicative addressing on the video RAM is pretty simple < 1252947561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are technical reasons why you'd want to make a cathode-ray-tube screen rectangualr < 1252947564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rectangular < 1252947564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, polar coordinates for the pixels on screen would be kind of interesting though < 1252947574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't apply as much to CRTs < 1252947580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would not apply to LCD I guess? < 1252947586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as much to LCDs < 1252947597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, you generally want all the pixels to be the same shape < 1252947602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make a circular screen hard < 1252947618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wouldn't rule out, say, hexagonal or triangluar screens < 1252947631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal sounds fun < 1252947654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also weren't those old radars circular? < 1252947663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the displays I mean < 1252947665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because the range of the radar was circular < 1252947671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they didn't want to waste phosphor < 1252947689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are those technical reasons then you mentioned? < 1252947699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with the way that the electron beam is steered < 1252947712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252947714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, you can aim at a rectangular region < 1252947748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252948280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if there is a parallel gzip implementation? < 1252948289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if that even is possible < 1252948290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1252948301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly possible, sort-of < 1252948308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you could just cut the file up and zip each part separately < 1252948382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant in a way so that it can be unpacked by standard gunzip < 1252948393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or parallel unpacking from standard gzip < 1252948411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1252948421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252948429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a parallel bzip2 iirc < 1252948435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed compatible < 1252948564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be possible; I mean, you can do a zlib full-flush (which discards the dictionary pretty much) at any point you want, and the inflater must survive that. < 1252948582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a bit suboptimal if you split it into too tiny pieces, though. < 1252948592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zlib.net/pigz/ < 1252948670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah wb. < 1252948683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the question above about better implementation of that function? < 1252948695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be equally fast < 1252948708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the current ones compiles to very good asm on x86/x86_64 at least < 1252948721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llabs/abs being inlined iirc. < 1252948728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, intrinsics < 1252948763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't have any obviously fast one; and of course compilation is compiler-dependant. < 1252948813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in general I optimise for gcc < 1252948829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it do abs/llabs, incidentally? < 1252948857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me check, was a while ago I last looked < 1252948916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they'd stick me in front of an assembler with no Internet connection and no references available, I'd probably write something like "test rN, rN; jns .skip; neg rN; .skip:" but maybe there's something clevererer. < 1252948931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which dialect is that? < 1252948957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to use sarl < 1252948964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for -DUSE32 < 1252949007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the abs() code is jump free even < 1252949029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it gets to the actual tests are there jumps < 1252949037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf does abs by adding 128 and seeing if there's a carry < 1252949059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can tell if there's a carry by seeing if you go to 0 at any point during the addition loop) < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sarl $31, %eax #, tmp63 < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xorl (%rdi), %ecx # .x, x < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : subl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x < 1252949103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the relevant code for x < 1252949112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use sign-magnitude, then abs is trivial < 1252949152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two complement is what I'm stuck with :P < 1252949163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the ".foo" local-label was from nasm, but it's not certainly unique there. And nasm doesn't support ;s to separate instructions, I don't think, it's just that I wanted it on one line. And "rN" is standing for "rax, rbx, ..., r8, r9, ..." < 1252949179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing it in a circuit, you'd xor every bit with the top bit, then half-add the old top bit to the resutl < 1252949181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*result < 1252949216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm. That doesn't seem to make sense to me, but it works, and profiling showed it was fastest < 1252949231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is called a lot in every ip moving, it is quite performance criticial < 1252949232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(half-addition is like addition, but it can only add 0 or 1; and it takes exactly half the circuitry that a full adder does) < 1252949237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot,* < 1252949253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, that works more or less exactly the same way as that hardware implementation I described < 1252949278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty nifty. < 1252949280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I thought you were describing what the asm did? < 1252949282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's using a different temporary < 1252949286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I was working out out from scratch < 1252949299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it has to, what with the thing being passed by reference < 1252949308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may be suboptimal < 1252949314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's using a 32-bit value that's 0 or -1 as the temporary < 1252949317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on x86_64, but probably best on x86 < 1252949321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a 1-bit value that's 0 or 1 < 1252949324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252949345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, 32 bits is as cheap as 1 bit on a 32-bit processor < 1252949353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, what happens for the most negative case? < 1252949359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it was undef according to docs < 1252949363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really irritating < 1252949371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: returns the same value, I think < 1252949378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252949387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why do you care about abs on every IP move? < 1252949414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no, not every one, but rather every wrap around, < 1252949416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a jump-free test will be faster than a jumpy one, almost always < 1252949419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it matters < 1252949435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the test takes the same branch almost every time < 1252949446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispredicted jumps require flushing the entire pipeline < 1252949456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There was some cautioning in the manuals not to blindly think that conditional moves and sets would be faster even though there's no jump involved. < 1252949461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it isn't as bad on modern cpus as it was on pentium4 < 1252949475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or s/even though/because/ but anyway. < 1252949478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: correct, it depends on the processor < 1252949485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes what fizzie said, due to execution resources usage < 1252949493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252949496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other reasons iirc < 1252949582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if it does return the same value, and then you cast that to unsigned, I think it would then turn out to be the correct 2^(N-1) unsigned number. < 1252949591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252949607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works, it just isn't guaranteed to. < 1252949643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people use the largest negative delta in their programs. < 1252949719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and if they are, it hardly matters whether it's positive or not < 1252949725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you come to the same place both ways round < 1252949746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but "undefined behaviour" is not that limited. < 1252949751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252949810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can matter if the instruction you hit is something that depends on the delta < 1252949816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the context; AnMaster is testing for "is this vector cardinal" by checking for abs(x) + abs(y) == 1, basically. (And the cardinality test is to use faster wrapping in that case.) < 1252949835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, good point; but are there any non-fingerprint instructions that would care? < 1252949857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y couldn't report the abs value of the most negative int < 1252949857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] come to mind, but they just shunt the problem one instruction ahead. < 1252949863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252949869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and [ and ] just leave you back in the previous situation < 1252949870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y reports the delta, so that's one. < 1252949882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: except, Befunge has no representation for INT_MAX+1 < 1252949891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have to report the negative value < 1252949909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. y wouldn't use the is cardinal test < 1252949914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, yes. < 1252949922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do people use wrapping in Befunge-98 programs, by the way? < 1252949931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quite often < 1252949939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it may be the shortest way < 1252949942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to where you want to go < 1252949951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 needs it quite a bit; in Befunge-98, though, it would tend to make programs less extensible < 1252949960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {, which sets the storage offset to position + delta? < 1252949960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and almost all the time it is cardinal wrapping < 1252949968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because non-cardinal wrapping is such a pain < 1252949980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: comes to the same location both ways round < 1252949983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, that brings you back to the same point as well < 1252949991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) || (y == 0 && (x == 1 || x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know. < 1252950031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then no, I don't think there are any outside fingerprints. < 1252950060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x*y == 1 seems like an obvious way to do that < 1252950088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... although n*2^32+1 isn't prime for all n, so you'd have to make sure it didn't carry < 1252950095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, multiplication can be slow < 1252950098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the processor < 1252950114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... given that in all true cases either x or y is zero, I don't see how x*y == 1 tests for it. < 1252950117 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean x*y == 0 && (y*y+x*x == 1)? < 1252950124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) || (y == 0 && (x == 1 || x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know. <-- iirc it was something with lots of jumps < 1252950219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: oh, good point, that's probably slowr < 1252950239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of wrapping, it's awful in jitfunge, since when you go and 'p' something outside the existing space bounds, I'll have to reconsider all traces that have wrapped that way, to see if they'd have instead hit whatever you put there. < 1252950323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of the same hassle with ;; jumps -- compiled traces containing those need to care if someone puts a semicolon inside there. < 1252950329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can easily think of programs where even CCBI will beat jitfunge < 1252950341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the worst case scenarios seems rather bad < 1252950358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a single semicolon between two existing semicolons strikes me as very bad coding practice < 1252950369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me as awesome < 1252950372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would the point even be? < 1252950384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commenting out code at runtime < 1252950384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1252950388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for a Funge program it might well be an awesome way to redirect some code to go completely differently. < 1252950442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think heavy self-modification will ever be very fast with jitfunge. It'd need a bit more heuristics that I want to implement to realize things like "okay, now you're messing around too much with this area, I'll just fall back to interpreting here and skip the JITting". < 1252950467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which adds some overhead of tracking that < 1252950500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I thought about an interesting different way to beat slowdown < 1252950515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beat"? < 1252950516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be sane for other purposes though < 1252950518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P < 1252950535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, make your value column indexed < 1252950538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, to win the fight against the final boss in slowdown. < 1252950538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think SQL < 1252950557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a boss? My bad, I'll fix that < 1252950561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would work for cardinal workaround < 1252950567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraparound* < 1252950568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1252950578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't worked out details for non-cardinal yet < 1252950597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why not have a flag saying whether the IP is cardinal or not < 1252950601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that every delta-changing command sets? < 1252950608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be faster or slower < 1252950617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that happens a lot more often than wraparound though in general < 1252950628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252950629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds to me like a clear pessimiation < 1252950631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly it's <>^v < 1252950637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just be setting the flag to a known value < 1252950650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use x a lot in my own code though. < 1252950658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1252950666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read somewhere that TraceMonkey keeps execution counters for JavaScript statements, and only JITs "hot" spots. < 1252950679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt x is more common than wraparound < 1252950734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, worth a try when I have time. I really was just looking for fixing the bug today, because I'm busy with uni currently < 1252950750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will put it in todo < 1252950888 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1252950979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess C doesn't specify what the unary - will do to INT_MIN on a system where |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN|? What with being so tight-lipped about signed integer wrap-around in general. < 1252951123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1252952285 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252952918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252952922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably < 1252953642 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252953848 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aren't most signed overflows undefined behaviour? < 1252953880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1252953896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago < 1252953899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1252953949 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess about what -INT_MIN will do if |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN| is 'undefined behavour'. < 1252953963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1252953965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, google seems down < 1252953973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the reasonable guess. < 1252953989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, not < 1252954017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it would do in pracice, I would guess -INT_MIN => INT_MIN. < 1252954024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c -INT_MIN < 1252954026 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1252954033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1252954034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c 1 < 1252954052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : huh, google seems down <-- works here? < 1252954053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INT_MIN is in limits.h, I think < 1252954056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really remember enough C to know what to import < 1252954060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits.h < 1252954061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not be in the standard headers < 1252954068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that EgoBot uses < 1252954077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: worked on second try, probably temporary glitch < 1252954079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is in the _C_ standard headers < 1252954092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I meant EgoBot's < 1252954108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I just graduated today; and had to harass people over IRC to find out that fact. (Typically they send the email announcements out the same day, but for some reason today they didn't bother. Well, maybe I'll get the email tomorrow.) < 1252954113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I liked sqrt(-garfield) too < 1252954119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well done < 1252954127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have you got your post-graduation application off in time? < 1252954131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gratz etc. < 1252954134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i found the lower left panel hard to read :D < 1252954148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately there was the script < 1252954148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes < 1252954159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the link to the original < 1252954163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No hurry for that, the deadlines are just this Wednesday and Friday. :p < 1252954207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're pretty much written, though, I've just kept them waiting to find out whether I actually am a graduate or not.) < 1252954313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so clearly, we need a price comparison comparison website < 1252954315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252954332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would say yo dawg, but thinks that meme has died now < 1252954399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ sudo chown -R ais523:ais523 /home/ais523/.gnupg/* < 1252954399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, all your yo dawg is dead < 1252954411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes? < 1252954412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes there needs to be a chowder command < 1252954414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you going to point out that the /* is redundant? < 1252954428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan suddenly realizes there needs to be a chowder command <-- what? < 1252954429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not < 1252954437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* excludes .* < 1252954445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, good point < 1252954454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's chown, there needs to chowder < 1252954454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1252954456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, as far as I know, there aren't nested dotfiles in that hierarchy < 1252954463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot files *inside* a dot directory is evil though < 1252954505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, chown, chmod, what would "chowder" be? < 1252954507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the pun < 1252954535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i just like chowder and thinks it deserves a command < 1252954544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chgrp i think < 1252954550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chsh < 1252954556 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-134-162.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252954564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what the hell is "owder"? < 1252954578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have .www/.htaccess~ < 1252954582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's nothing, but "chowder" is something. < 1252954583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beats me < 1252954589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has "chomp", though it doesn't really change the omp-ness of anything. < 1252954591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1252954597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252954598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define chowder < 1252954599 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* a thick soup or stew made with milk and bacon and onions and potatoes \ [22]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Chowder is an American animated television series that debuted on Cartoon Network on November 2, 2007. ... < 1252954605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could also use a cheddar. < 1252954606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions of chowder on the Web: < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thick soup or stew made with milk and bacon and onions and potatoes < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn < 1252954614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1252954634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I should check if anyone else written anything when I switch back from the browser window < 1252954638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes AnMaster is not yet one with HackEgo  < 1252955337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would think: potatoes => Fail. < 1252955351 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252955495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why on earth? < 1252955515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think soup => fail though < 1252955606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too much carbohydrates in potato. And it isn't that good source of various micronutrients anyway... < 1252955646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a potato! They're just so awesomely round. < 1252955661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err, no, they are knobbly < 1252955663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rotund! < 1252955669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotund? < 1252955689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gerund. Wait, no, not that. < 1252955726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rincewind likes potatoes. :p < 1252955733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe fecund? < 1252955759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1252955759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1252955769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What says you about potatoes? < 1252955770 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the fnord abbot folded his wrinkled hands and addressed lu-tze, one of those little uncertain laughs a man laughs who is unsure that he's not likeable. you couldn't help loving someone as soppy as that. < 1252955783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awfully tangent there < 1252955847 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markov generator? That seems so "reality shifted by 90 degrees"... < 1252955847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testlm-disk says about "potatoes are": potatoes are inherently evil. < 1252955900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a generative n-gram model. Certainly you could formulate that in the Markov framework. < 1252955913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, the topic was potatos < 1252955914 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: glod gave buddy a lopsided look. " er. even the common people?' ' up here?' goodmountain, grimacing, balancing himself on two sticks. < 1252955945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get it to say anything nice about potatoes. :/ < 1252955947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ... < 1252955948 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " we should always remember the songs he never had the patience to acquire it. just fnord" brutha began. and then, comrades, we must get... < 1252955953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're always just evil and black. < 1252955961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh? < 1252955980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"potatoes are there? iteration is where it's at" < 1252955993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you do seem to pick one book that is easy to see in each, plus a bit of "garbage" < 1252955994 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ' he just looks as though they were, you know, that thing is in fnord of the < 1252955994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1252956013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that from? < 1252956020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ok, you disproved me < 1252956021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " anyway, strong drink is a mocker, you know, i'm really rather pleased," said < 1252956068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, no I don't know < 1252956074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prod* < 1252956079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that the limit < 1252956083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods fizzie instead  < 1252956132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where I had the source texts. < 1252956231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungotty < 1252956231 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ' old boots muttered the manager. ' old boots... old boots.' < 1252956268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be directly from much anything. < 1252956279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that's* from Hogfather, I would say. < 1252956503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any non-recursive definition of fibonacci's sequence? < 1252956576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252956587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1252956599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that golden-ratio based one. < 1252956603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252956608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Closed_form_expression < 1252956630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also find it by typing a couple of the first Fib numbers to the online encyclopedia of integer youknowwhats. < 1252956645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1252956661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh no I don't know what it is < 1252956674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS < 1252956682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/ < 1252956688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252956690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, OEIS < 1252956818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we did the derivation of that in the generating-functions course. < 1252956822 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even standard method of getting "closed" formula for any sequence of form a_n = sum(b_k * a_{n-k}, k, 1, N), a_x given for 1 <= x <= N. < 1252956850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, preudo-TeX? < 1252956863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX for prudes? < 1252956872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, uh I don't get it < 1252956879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"preudo" < 1252956920 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 1 <= N <= 4, it results true closed formula. For higher N, one would need higher functions. < 1252956950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that's just because you cannot solve quintics, i presume? < 1252956965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is still closed given the actual roots of the polynomial... < 1252956978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252956991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh < 1252956993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo* < 1252957003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there was some subtlety when the polynomial had duplicate roots < 1252957017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. It involves solving roots of Nth degree polynomial. < 1252957112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically you take the polynomial equation x^n = sum(b_k * x^n) and solve that. then every function of the form f(n) = x^n is a solution to the original recursion < 1252957128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for fibonacci you get x^2 = x + 1 < 1252957141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sum... what is written over and under the sum sign here? < 1252957157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not what your sum() does? < 1252957164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like \sum_{k=1}^N b_k ... < 1252957171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aha! < 1252957186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what I'd intuitively read it as. < 1252957197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252957211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1252957214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^N = sum(b_k * x^n) i meant < 1252957222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with fizzie's bounds < 1252957269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That still leaves "n" a bit unclear, actually, if the sum index is just k. < 1252957274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then, assuming the polynomial has N distinct roots (which might be complex), you can then compose every other solution to the recursion with linear algebra summing those x^n solutions < 1252957282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oops < 1252957315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^N = sum(b_k * x^k), last try :D < 1252957319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1252957384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if some roots are not distinct, there is a trick to get extra functions for the duplicate roots but i'm not quite sure what it was < 1252957425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been something as simple as n*x^n < 1252957479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is: x^{N}=\sum_{k=1}^{N}b_{k}\times x^{k} < 1252957479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252957505 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252957515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra {} comes from that I was using lyx, due to not remembering exactly how the \sum one worked < 1252957518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_{k=0}^{N-1} i think < 1252957542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It looks like \sum_{k=1}^N b_k ... < 1252957545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (with fizzie's bounds < 1252957549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe make that first x^{N+1} < 1252957550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not his bounds then? < 1252957604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bounds were for a different sum, actually. < 1252957617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's essentially just the equation which a function f(n) = x^n needs to satisfy to solve the recursion < 1252957634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252957647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari's "a_n = sum(...)", which makes sense as $a_n = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k * a_{n-k}$. < 1252957657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was b_k? < 1252957674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely forgot by now < 1252957676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coefficients from the recursion; b_1 = b_2 = 1 for Fibonacci. < 1252957679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the coefficients for the recursive linear equation you are trying to solve < 1252957680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252957715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, b_0 = b_1 = 0 for oerjan's sum, again. < 1252957746 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252957785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is definitely best to start with x^0 as the lowest, otherwise you get a spurious x = 0 solution < 1252957863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lowest x power in the sum < 1252957922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not strictly spurious, it's just trivial) < 1252957980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you want to use the same bounds and b_k subscripts as in the recursion-defining $a_n = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k a_{n-k}$ up there, would your polynomial go $x^N = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k x^{N-k}$ too? < 1252958011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1252958029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you have a minus < 1252958036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er subtraction < 1252958046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn to read some day < 1252958092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that recursion definition should have $a_N = , shouldn't it < 1252958097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh you have a minus er subtraction <-- what is wrong with the first term for it? < 1252958101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1252958106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n = N < 1252958118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's just trying to say a_n = b_1 a_{n-1} + b_2 a_{n-2} + ... there. < 1252958139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe < 1252958141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this decided to pass over my head < 1252958141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252958172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just notationally squibbles, really. < 1252958185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok there's just some confusion because n and N are really the same up there < 1252958199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but then, yes < 1252958215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a_i becomes x^i < 1252958218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're not; it's the recursive definition given for any a_n, while N is the number of coefficients. < 1252958231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1252958233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1252958234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes that explains a bit of it < 1252958243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1252958244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: scratch that < 1252958254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn case sensitivity < 1252958269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said last < 1252958324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then a_{n-k} becomes x^{N-k} etc. < 1252958332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still confused. Anyway I don't think I need it, except for fib < 1252958348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need a closed-form fib for? < 1252958368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is the square root of *any* prime an irrational number? or is it just square root of 2? < 1252958379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for bit, a_n = a_{n-1} + a_{n-2} becomes x^2 = x + 1 < 1252958386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any < 1252958389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1252958415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bit/fibonacci/ < 1252958424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that came from < 1252958451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, assignment is "implement a less stupid than naive fib algorithms", this is obviously geared against dynamic programming or whatever the term is. < 1252958476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that is WAY to obvious < 1252958486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: really, just set a_n = x^n and substitute < 1252958498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, AH! < 1252958542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how did one kind out b_k now again? it was coefficients right. I suspect there may be a language barrier here.. < 1252958556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just bad education < 1252958570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything especially stupid in the naive iterative Fibonacci; the unmemoized tree-recursion might be pushing it a bit, though. < 1252958577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koeffisienter is perfectly valid in norwegian ;D < 1252958589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was the case here that was given to design a better one than < 1252958615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: another efficient way of doing fibonacci uses matrix multiplication < 1252958623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, koefficienter? Well I know about that, but not in the context of recursive definitions < 1252958627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ooh that sounds fun < 1252958650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, got a link or something? < 1252958657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is there on wikipedia < 1252958681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(n) = [[1 1] [0 1]]^n [1 1] modulo probably serious off-by-one errors < 1252958693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... we haven't got to "eigenvalues" yet, they are later in the course < 1252958726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't been able to successfully figure it out myself from wikipedia < 1252958732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't eigenvalues to multiply matrices or take their powers < 1252958752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eigenvalue thing is just another path to that x^n method, i think < 1252958766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1252958774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*need < 1252958777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, so far all we have done with matrixes has been the gauss/whatever-the-guy-was method for solving linear equation systems < 1252958784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(writing them as matrixes) < 1252958824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "Augmented matrix" is the English term < 1252958831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "utökad matris" in Swedish < 1252958855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see the place in "Matrix form" section where it says closed form < 1252958863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er closed expression < 1252958874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia flat-out gives you the F_{2n-1} and F_{2n} formulas, which I guess are what you'd get from the matrix power and a square-and-multiply exponentiation. (This is really a guess, I don't feel like thinking.) < 1252958880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252958900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said < 1252959028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can essentially calculate F_n from the binary expansion of n (might be a bit off-by-one there since it's F_{2n-1}) < 1252959043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, F_n still grows exponentially < 1252959119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252959141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it can work because we implemented it in lambdabot in #haskell a couple of times < 1252959170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about a non-exponential-to-calculate one? < 1252959171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to say the same thing in another way, but since I already had this thing mostly written: with those formulas, given F_n and F_{n-1} (okay, and F_{n+1}, but that's just their sum), you should be able to calculate F_{2n} and F_{2n-1} and use that to get F_{4n} and F_{4n-1} and so on; much like you can utilize x, x^2, x^4, x^8 you get from squaring things to compute any x^n. < 1252959203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er the _size_ of F_n is exponential in n, you're not going to get away from that is what i am saying < 1252959229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah right. Where F is the sequence itself? (forgot if it was was upper or lower case f that was fib) < 1252959252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even bothered to get the notation right ;) < 1252959273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wikipedia uses F_n < 1252959279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252959441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes you never see notation like: a < b > c ? (to say that b is bigger than both a and c, but not saying if a or c is largest) < 1252959451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number#Another_identity seems like the most relevant section < 1252959454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that would be same as a =< b < c < 1252959467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't < 1252959486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1252959535 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Eigenvalues are closely associated with groups of linear diffrential equations. < 1252959557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I see. < 1252959577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I don't think we got to the differential ones yet < 1252959601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: this fibonacci stuff is essentially linear _difference_ equations, and there are many analogies between the theories iirc < 1252959643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it is in the chapter on "recursion and induction" < 1252959662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, x is eigenvalue of matrix X if (xI - X)Y = 0 has nontrivial solutions (Y is not 0). Which is equivalent to det(xI - X) = 0. < 1252959665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait am i confusing it < 1252959696 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-29-57.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252959702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, where did the I in xI come from? < 1252959711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I is the identity matrix < 1252959715 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I is identity matrix of apporiate size. < 1252959715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252959719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also det? < 1252959726 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derminant. < 1252959730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*determinant < 1252959744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is #esoteric talking about eigenstructure? < 1252959746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is listed in the course description for November < 1252959843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how comes you never see notation like: a < b > c <-- i think it's because you usually try to keep chains of relational operators somewhat transitive < 1252959856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would say a, c < b instead < 1252959876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or b > a, c perhaps more likely < 1252959894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: " AnMaster: er the _size_ of F_n is exponential in n --"; the value of F_n grows exponentially, but does the *size* of it, really? I mean, F_n is something like φ^n, and the size of the decimal representation of 10^n is obviously linear in n, and yet 10^n > φ^n. Well, okay, maybe that was just a different definition of "size". < 1252959899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, the first one looks nicer < 1252959900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252959909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one uses multiply row and add to other to reduce the matrix to upper triangular form, the determinant is product of numbers in main diagonal in triangular form. < 1252959924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i didn't want to mention that :D < 1252959936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm interesting < 1252959942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why not? < 1252959950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made more sense than most other stuff so far < 1252959951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could put "a" and "c" on top of each other, and next to a very large "< b". < 1252959953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, f(n) is also exponential in n, and the size of f(n) is exponential in the size of n < 1252959976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would look like a/c < b but someone forgot the _ < 1252959979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter would be the relevant thing in complexity theory < 1252960043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the very happy case your variables are a, b, e instead, you could use "æ < b"; but maybe that's a bit limiting. < 1252960059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh that would be another nice notation: for a < b < c: a b c < 1252960095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves characters < 1252960100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not ink I guess) < 1252960132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not sure how to differentiate =< and == < 1252960151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or >= and =< < 1252960174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has had this idea already < 1252960179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine '. into ! < 1252960211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great, as ' is a paren character (nearly always opening paren in that context, although could theoretically be closing), and . is a sigil < 1252960247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what is the sigil for ? < 1252960268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it means "16-bit scalar variable" < 1252960268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about .' ? < 1252960277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX gives you ten official sizes; \tiny, \scriptsize, \footnotesize, \small, \normalsize, \large, \Large, \LARGE, \huge and \Huge. (For some reason \HUGE is not listed; maybe it would be overkill.) Unfortunately those don't work in math mode. < 1252960282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, wasn't the name one-spot? < 1252960284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no statement but comments in which .' isn't a syntax error < 1252960285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two-spot < 1252960289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than sigil < 1252960296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the names of the sigil < 1252960299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigils < 1252960304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by extension-of the types < 1252960311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sigil"'s a general programming language concept < 1252960315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "variable", or "identifier" < 1252960323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want \GIGANTIC < 1252960330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \ENORMOUS < 1252960342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Wordnet doesn't know about "sigil". Shameful. < 1252960354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, as it has a non-programming meaning too < 1252960358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's $s, @s and %s are sigils, anyway. < 1252960362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what sigil is.... < 1252960376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would wordnet NOT know it? < 1252960378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sigil doesn't have the programming meaning < 1252960384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it isn't very uncommon < 1252960394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the programming meaning? < 1252960401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the non-programming meaning < 1252960403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only < 1252960405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a character used to introduce a variable name < 1252960413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often in a hungarian-notation style, but enforced by the language < 1252960415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh like $ in shell < 1252960417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252960426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl's $s, @s and %s are sigils, anyway. < 1252960429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is generally irritating unless shell < 1252960436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but I don't KNOW perl < 1252960439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would it help < 1252960442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay spam on the esolang forum < 1252960452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting the esolang forum exists < 1252960457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume everyone's seen *that* much of Perl. < 1252960460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not an admin there, so reporting it to me doesn't really help) < 1252960467 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mi co'a sipna" < 1252960478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how good are you at reading programs in languages you don't understand? < 1252960478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i got better after i subscribed to the rss < 1252960490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not counting esolangs < 1252960491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's still months between posts < 1252960493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends on what language it is. if it is APL or K, or J: Not at all < 1252960505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't know who is an admin there, perhaps only graue < 1252960516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a continuum, probably < 1252960527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less anyone could read correctly-indented unobfuscated Lua, for instance < 1252960530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Python < 1252960536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Perl's rather harder, due to its huge density < 1252960536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C like? probably quite ok. Same for lisp-like. Haskell? Nop, perl neither. < 1252960542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can say a lot in a few characters < 1252960542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is very clear perl < 1252960546 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252960548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems uncommon for one-liners < 1252960559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for python, I know it a bit < 1252960571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of Perl written that's pretty much like "shell script, except with regexps". < 1252960573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua I also used a tiny bit < 1252960580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-liners are a special breed though. < 1252960584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, [[ =~ ]] < 1252960585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://ais523.sartak.org/TAEB-AI-Planar/lib/TAEB/AI/Planar.pm is a Perl file I've written that aims to be clear rather than obfuscated < 1252960589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mostly me, sorear has a fwe patches there < 1252960601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typ: text/x-perl < 1252960605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1252960609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives me a download dialog < 1252960613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1252960629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is "sartak"? < 1252960630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed for downloading via darcs, rather than viewing online < 1252960640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TAEB's lead maintainer < 1252960644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252960647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who came up with the idea in the first place, and wrote quite a bit of the code < 1252960670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does "extends" do? kate's perl mode doesn't think it is a key word for example < 1252960682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sugar for object-orientation < 1252960691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :introduced by Moose < 1252960694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't part of the core lang at all < 1252960695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, brb phone, will take a few minutes < 1252961794 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252963126 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-065.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252963380 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242436251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1252964326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just saw something funny: < 1252964336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone quoting "click" in the context of "link" < 1252964344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Swedish website though < 1252964398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be exact, the site with info for the local busses) < 1252964545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Here you can see our time tables. "Click" on the time table on the left that you are interested in. You need Acrobat Reader to view the time tables.' < 1252964605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is definitely a Swedish word that isn't uncommon, and hasn't been during the last 10 years or so < 1252964624 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... what did it say? < 1252964640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, http://www.lanstrafiken.se/template/ResePlanerareUnder____2565.aspx < 1252964666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you wrote "quoting" < 1252964676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes? quoteing? < 1252964679 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as "someone writing 'click' instead of 'link'" < 1252964686 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read your line sloppily < 1252964694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, no I just find it funny to use quotes around that word < 1252964706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yeah, well I wouldn't do that at least < 1252964796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you "wouldn't" < 1252964817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I fail to see anything wrong with "wouldn't" < 1252964835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it just a lame pun? < 1252964841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than pointing out some error < 1252964856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes" < 1252964877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes to both? < 1252964890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe" < 1252964914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1252964930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you can only take a pun so far before it becomes "lame" < 1252964947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true" < 1252964982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> true == "true". < 1252964982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1252964991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, that maybe should have been "false" < 1252965002 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252965023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it seems they go out of their way to make it accessible, except those features are broken without javascript < 1252965024 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1252965042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them are < 1252965054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize that after the first couple of lines it's your reaction that makes it funny to continue, right? < 1252965063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "no" < 1252965082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and why the hell would you provide a sign language version of a web page? < 1252965089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio version yes. but sign language? < 1252965106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does a sign language webpage look like? < 1252965116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't clicked on the link yet < 1252965138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a link to a *.mov and *.wmv < 1252965169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it is just someone talking the stuff in sign language it seems. Don't understand that of course < 1252965654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ok I have a theory: 1) they also provide the travel service for disabled people (anyone from US will have no clue what this is about) 2) This city is some sort of national center for higher education for deaf people < 1252965661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there is some logic behind all this < 1252965864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that Planar.pm, what does it do? < 1252965879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it seems to need to fit into a much larger context to make sense < 1252965885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense stand-alone < 1252965975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use constant veto_travel => 0; <-- huh? < 1252965984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the huh for there? < 1252965989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it simply creates a constant < 1252965996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sugar for sub veto_travel { 0; } < 1252965998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this travel with level teleport? < 1252966011 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252966012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's travel with _ < 1252966018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus, what does the "use" mean < 1252966029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1252966062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use constant imports constant.pm < 1252966066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TAEB->config->get_ai_config->{'overall_plan'} // 'SlowDescent'; <-- that fucked syntax highlighting in kate, at the second / everything is green < 1252966068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is responsible for doing the sugar < 1252966071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except comments < 1252966073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a 5.10ism < 1252966078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1252966088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// is a new operator in Perl 5.10 < 1252966093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1252966096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1252966107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces undef with the given value, has no effect on anything else < 1252966114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252966115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252966122 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252966126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if the left argument doesn't have a value, return the right argument < 1252966130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise return the left argument < 1252966134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who thought such an operator was a good idea? < 1252966146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; but it is a useful operator < 1252966153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, syntax sugar? < 1252966154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for doing things like default values < 1252966166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not quite sugar, it avoids having to use a temporary var < 1252966170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he wanted that // recently (ironically for the /// interpreter) but didn't know about it < 1252966171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252966172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write the left argument out twice < 1252966200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : traits => [qw/TAEB::AI::Planar::Meta::Trait::DontFreeze/], < 1252966204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worked around it though :) < 1252966206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1252966212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't freeze what? < 1252966239 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252966240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what does the whole module thing do? implement some sort of strategy for this nethack bot? < 1252966248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when freezing state, don't freeze that < 1252966256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's one of the modules doing the strategy for TAEB < 1252966263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, freezing state? < 1252966271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, locked up? < 1252966276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, continuations but on disk < 1252966279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252966296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can exit the program, load it again, and it's in the same state again < 1252966308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on tape or other long term storage media I guess it would be "freeze dried" even < 1252966392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is most stuff not stored? < 1252966404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there seems to be an awful lot of repetition here < 1252966407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stuff like caches that can be reconstructed anyway < 1252966455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is lots of complete copies, or very similiar entries to: < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : isa => 'HashRef[ArrayRef[TAEB::AI::Planar::Plan]]', < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is => 'rw', < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : default => sub { {} }, < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : traits => [qw/TAEB::AI::Planar::Meta::Trait::DontFreeze/], < 1252966474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely this can be simplified in some way? < 1252966512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could be, but it would be less clear < 1252966516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252966521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could generate the code at runtime, for instance < 1252966535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several bits of TAEB actually do that, but it grates against my typical programming style < 1252966666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this can lead to inaccurate results sometimes when our resource levels change" <-- eh? < 1252966781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "Phasers can walk anywhere." <-- is that true for all levels? Such as sokoban? < 1252966792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's an approximation for monster routing < 1252966801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has to be simple < 1252966806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252966809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for efficiency reasons < 1252966817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, we're trying to predict where enemy monsters will go < 1252966836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's better to guess wrong in a way that gives the monsters more places to move to, than one that doesn't < 1252966841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how much slowdown is caused by, say, perl? < 1252966845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1252966853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why does it have to be fast? nethack is turn based < 1252966866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can be tested in a reasonable amount of time < 1252966878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252967155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where are the tactical plans listed? < 1252967183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in a load of other modules < 1252967185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of them < 1252967190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252967199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, is this a tactical plan itself? < 1252967209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1252967219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Perl module, the plans are something entirely different < 1252967225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're objects of classes defined in other modules < 1252967230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's just one of them <-- was the bit that confused me < 1252967236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of the modules < 1252967238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1252967240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252967252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how many tactical plans are there? < 1252967291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are both tactical and strategic plans < 1252967316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls | wc -l < 1252967317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71 < 1252967319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's plans in total < 1252967332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of things are the strategic ones? < 1252967335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including a few files that are not plans in themselves, but libraries used by plans < 1252967360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://ais523.sartak.org/TAEB-AI-Planar/lib/TAEB/AI/Planar/Plan/ < 1252967364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a list of both sorts of plans < 1252967371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why dislike levitation? < 1252967384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like SlowDescent are strategic; things like Walk are tactical < 1252967390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because lots of things can't be done while levitating < 1252967403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to recognise that fact in order to avoid getting stuck in an infinite loop < 1252967405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, levitation is still very useful < 1252967424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, getting up from below castle < 1252967429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to fall down again < 1252967432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes... but, say you want to pick an item up < 1252967439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /need to know/ that you can't pick up items while levitating < 1252967440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252967443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to you that's obvious < 1252967445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a bot, you have to tell it < 1252967450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1252967468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the talking about levitating is to tell it that < 1252967513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read http://taeb-blog.sartak.org/2009/08/planar-taeb-ai.html for the explanation of how the code works < 1252968143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack AI has long been on the list of possible topics on the Prolog course, I think; I'm not aware of anyone attempting it, though. < 1252968216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm attempting it < 1252968220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're aware o me < 1252968221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of me < 1252968269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but on the course, I mean. < 1252968594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252968595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252968802 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252968966 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252970835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems Novell ported Mono to the iPhone < 1252970839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me's head explodes < 1252971295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252971329 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1252971344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meemeemeemee < 1252971348 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that imply that one could write software for iShit without the iShit SDK? < 1252971420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls reading that Apple won't accept any app which can run another program < 1252971487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said < 1252971493 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252971513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the C64 emulator THAT RUNS BASIC OMG < 1252971898 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252972065 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252972073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well-rested! < 1252972083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I recall that too, but I thought you were implying the contrary. < 1252972089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I wasn't! < 1252972089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252972090 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess Apple's douchebaggery knows no bounds. < 1252972102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how can you sleep in a well? isn't that awfully wet? < 1252972109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1252972119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TONIGHT! < 1252972120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aWell, well, well. What have we here. Some questions? < 1252972120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE DINE! < 1252972122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN WELL! < 1252972125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^a// < 1252972130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hurf durf < 1252972161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surf the turf < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:49:42 1> true == "true". < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:49:42 false < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, [116,114,117,101]=="true", and lists stringify as strings depending on if they're ascii or not < 1252972271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be nice changing [116, 114, 117, 3]'s last element to 101 and getting back "true" < 1252972281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf erlang < 1252972346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:54 ais523, who thought such an operator was a good idea? < 1252972348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, it is < 1252972356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "default the former to the latter" < 1252972359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a good operation < 1252972367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defaults when unavailable are a Good Thing < 1252972372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and // encapsulates that < 1252972414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can call a function that prints it as a numerical list I think < 1252972427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, that default behaviour is fucked up :) < 1252972447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which lang is that list example in? < 1252972452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erlang < 1252972457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are lists of numbers < 1252972461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252972468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all lists with ascii printable contents stringify as strings < 1252972472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpreter prints them in strings if it can, in numbers otherwise < 1252972473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lists stringify as strings" < 1252972480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on if they're ASCII? < 1252972482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1252972483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [97,98] shows as "ab" < 1252972484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the default printing < 1252972485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1252972487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen anything like Erlang's lists-are-magically-strings in another language < 1252972492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll call it magic-typing < 1252972502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this list MAGICALLY becomes a string! < 1252972508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't; lists and strings are the same consturct < 1252972508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, it's back again... magically < 1252972511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*construct < 1252972521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just changes how it's shown < 1252972613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:00 FireFly, http://www.lanstrafiken.se/template/ResePlanerareUnder____2565.aspx < 1252972625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes are really soothed by the colour scheme there... < 1252972625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252972629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just really like it < 1252972637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mainly the header < 1252972657 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acrobat Reader HAR < 1252972680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah don't they know it's just Adobe Reader now??????????????????? :P < 1252972723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:35:48 Does that imply that one could write software for iShit without the iShit SDK? < 1252972723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SDK isn't shit... although what you said didn't imply that anyway < 1252972744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean objective-c/cocoa is pretty okayrad < 1252972770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okayrad? < 1252972797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to say rad because i haven't used it for anything myself, but the general consensus is that it's rad, and what i've read seems awesome