00:00:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:02:03 ah well 00:02:04 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 00:11:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:17:57 -!- ehird has joined. 00:18:15 Speaking of internet outages, the cosmic irony of the universe gave me one. 00:18:27 I am not stupid any more! Hooray! 00:18:54 15:39:19 BTW, Ben Olmstead shown his face recently? 00:18:56 15:40:57 (guess not) 00:18:57 last seen early 2009, commenting on the 99 bottles of beer site on a malbolge submission 00:19:05 15:53:43 what's the diff between Befunge97 and 98? 00:19:11 Befunge97 was weirder, iirc 00:19:13 or as that 96? 00:19:16 but they're both lost. 00:19:21 AnMaster found some dox on them 00:19:30 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 00:19:44 haha chatzilla prefixes things with "=-=" 00:19:51 and the - is below the = slightly 00:19:59 so it's peeved that you changed your name, ais523 00:20:13 ehird: you're using chatzilla? 00:20:20 it strikes me as the sort of program you'd avoid using for UI reasons 00:20:31 ais523: it's pretty good on windows, actually 00:20:36 although the configuration UI is rather bad 00:20:44 also, I don't use it connected to a browser, obviously; that's just stupid 00:20:46 ah, I only used it on SunOS 00:21:01 never try and use it on OS X after using OS X for any length of time 00:21:14 I can guess what would happen 00:21:15 it's very upsetting 00:21:36 incidentally, what do OSX users do when a typical Windows or Linux user would do pgup, pgdown, home, or end/ 00:21:48 the chord for them on OSX is basically impossible to reach, worse than just using the mouse 00:22:06 Page up, page down, command-left or ctrl-A, command-right or ctrl-E. 00:22:19 ah, emacs bindings for home and end, that makes sense 00:22:26 and the Mac I was using didn't have page up or page down keys 00:22:27 Ctrl-A for the start of the physical line, command-left for visual line (i.e., line wrapping) 00:22:33 ais523: what was it? 00:22:34 command-left is just impossible for me to press 00:22:42 ehird: I'm not sure, I'm not a master of Mac knowledge 00:22:43 use the left command key 00:22:47 and press left with your right hand 00:22:50 it was a borrowed one from someone else's 00:22:53 ais523: was it a notebook or a desktop? 00:22:57 notebook 00:23:03 also, I'm unused to using two hands to chord 00:23:15 ais523: was it white, silver or silver and black? 00:23:18 I chord with one where possible, so as to move the other hand in place for the next key 00:23:20 and I think it was white 00:23:34 either a non-first-generation iBook or a MacBook, then 00:23:42 ais523: anyway, page up is Fn-up I think 00:23:44 and page down fn-down 00:23:47 I think the problem is, I had to look at the keyboard to do left command + arrow key 00:23:49 also, chording with one hand is unergonomic 00:23:51 just so you know 00:23:55 ehird: faster, though 00:24:01 ais523: nope 00:24:04 at least the way I learnt to type 00:24:10 dvorak is optimized to only hit one key with one hand at a time 00:24:13 say I want to press control-P 00:24:26 then neither of my hands can reach, say, y or u without moving, if I use both hands for it 00:24:44 ais523: comedy option: they use their trackpad's scrolling ability 00:24:55 ehird: that's possibly not a bad idea 00:25:13 my laptop has a nonfunctioning trackpad, with the result that I can't use anyone else's without moving the mouse all over the place by mistake 00:25:18 because I'm used to resting my hands on it 00:25:22 oh, that's a common problem 00:25:29 and why the nipple mouse is generally superior 00:25:38 yes, but even worse for me because I have little motivation to fix it 00:25:39 but, er 00:25:42 is the trackpad in the middle or to the left? 00:25:46 middle 00:25:49 well, almost 00:25:56 wow, you have really bad typing posture 00:25:57 it's slightly left-of-centre, but only by a centimetre or so 00:26:10 and my hands don't stay constant as I type 00:26:14 nor mine 00:26:20 still, they never curve into the middle 00:26:20 they move into position for the next few letters 00:26:40 ehird: if I rest my left hand on home row, the base of my left thumb is on the middle of the trackpad 00:26:45 that isn't curving into the middle at all 00:26:49 well, okay 00:26:55 you must have very small hands 00:27:12 no, just an awkwardly-placed trackpad, I think 00:27:22 where did you expect my hands to end up? 00:27:27 no, I mean, 00:27:29 if they seek so far 00:27:39 mine do the same thing and yet my arms barely move 00:27:44 and this is on a full-sized desktop keyboard 00:27:49 they don't seek far; my arms don't move, my wrists hardly do 00:27:51 (of course, ignoring the non-main blocks of keys) 00:27:55 it's mostly the palm of the hand that moves 00:28:08 but that's enough to knock the touchpad, which my thumb is leaning on at the time 00:28:10 hmm... moving that without your wrist sounds like you're begging for problems 00:28:17 oh, your thumb 00:28:21 yes 00:28:24 this mental picture keeps getting more and more awkward 00:28:44 in order to press the spacebar anywhere sane, the base of the thumb basically has to be on the touchpad 00:28:49 with the left hand, at least 00:29:07 Speaking of keyboards, I learned that I can type QWERTY in my head, but cannot recall the QWERTY layout. 00:29:28 However, I could do this by typing e.g. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and noting which positions I go to. 00:29:31 ehird: same, more or less 00:29:39 At the end, type a different lipogram to check that I have it all right. 00:29:44 except that I can recall most of the letters on Qwerty 00:29:53 punctuation marks, though, I'd have to mentally type 00:30:08 it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard 00:30:16 qwertyuiopasdf and then I stop. Well, hjkl is obvious too, and I know there's some assortment of z, x, c and v on the bottom row, but couldn't be sure about the positions. 00:30:19 the idea is to press a key at random, see what comes up, deduce where my hand is as a result 00:30:22 asdfghjkl; 00:30:25 zxcvbnm 00:30:30 obviously, I'm cheating 00:30:33 So I'd have to type out g, z, x, c, v, b, n and m 00:30:46 ais523: wait, you need to see the keyboard to type? 00:30:50 no 00:30:55 [00:30]it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard 00:30:57 I need to see the keyboard to place my hands 00:30:59 oh, I see 00:31:05 or feel around for the dedents on f and j 00:31:06 but that's slower 00:31:12 sometimes I shift off by one, but I just pick up my hands and put them back. 00:31:17 also, those dedents are stupid 00:31:23 just annoying for a non-touch typist 00:31:29 and for Dvorak users, etc 00:31:33 er 00:31:36 *non-home row typist 00:31:56 well, it's good to dedent something to help blind people find the keyboard 00:34:16 ais523: what about blind dvorak typists? 00:34:28 they should have dedents too, I imagine 00:34:36 probably doesn't matter which keys, as long as it's known and consistent 00:34:41 meh 00:34:46 blind people aren't stupid 00:34:48 although ones nearer the middle would help in finding the dedents in the first place 00:34:51 they can feel the edges of the keyboard 00:35:06 yep, but that takes time 00:35:17 I suppose they wouldn't be using the mouse as much as you advocate, though 00:35:19 if at all 00:35:34 I'm shocked, shocked, that blind people might have to have a different UI 00:35:37 touch-clicking (i.e. without being able to see the mouse pointer) would be almost impossilbe 00:35:39 I hereby renounce all pointing devices 00:35:48 ehird: sorry, I didn't mean it like that 00:35:53 :P 00:35:54 I know 00:35:56 I was just joking 00:36:11 ehird: out of interest, have you ever used a screen reader? 00:36:42 incidentally, most of the talk about web accessibility is, while a good principle, not all that useful in practice: first, because screen readers use IE and mess with the result and are Smart (you don't seriously think they're confused by layout tables?), secondly, because blind people have gotten used to all the quirks they hear 00:36:48 ais523: no, actually 00:36:50 it'd be interesting to 00:37:09 ais523: but all the good ones, e.g. JAWS, cost rather unreasonable amounts of mone 00:37:11 y 00:37:43 I wonder how many blind programmers use emacspeak 00:37:44 ehird: I agree with web accessibility, but not mainly for the reasons you express 00:37:45 probably a bunch 00:37:59 it's because it's easier to process the data, which means that it's more likely to be forward compatible 00:38:02 ais523: google is also smart - but really, web accessibility comes automatically from good structure 00:38:07 yes 00:38:19 e.g. some websites assume a particular screen resolution 00:38:24 and we both know that's an incredibly bad idea 00:38:38 and the reason is, because it doesn't work at all on things that have screens of different shapes 00:38:46 well, loads of other reasons too 00:38:48 yes (with the caveat that I'm not going to bother making it look perfect on 800x600 screens) 00:38:57 fair enough 00:39:16 ehird: incidentally, what do you think about the "site provides structure, user provides stylesheet" paradigm? 00:39:19 I know it has no chance of taking off now 00:39:26 but say it was dominant, rather than what we have atm 00:39:36 would you say that it would be better or worse than what we have at present? 00:39:55 Users should have the option of tweaking style, but having it solely down to the user misses the fact that presentation is a fundamental part of information (see e.g. Tufte) 00:40:24 and so presentation is actually quite vital to information 00:40:34 so I'd say worse 00:41:59 in the end it's all a crapshoot :P 00:42:34 people will always optimize for having things be exactly as they want now without consideration for the future as long as our general intellectual characteristics stay the same 00:42:39 so how the web turned out was really inevitable 00:42:50 well, agreed on that, I think 00:42:56 although consideration for the future is how I want thinks now 00:43:00 I've been bitten too much... 00:43:01 *things 00:44:09 the day when we can tweak our cognitive structures without destroying our memories or the rest of our personality is the day that shit stops... so, not in our natural lifetimes, that's for sure 00:44:14 well okay, not for sure, probable 00:44:33 (assuming no singularity-type event) 00:44:44 people won't want their own cognitive structures tweaked 00:45:17 I certainly would. 00:45:32 but indeed, there's a chicken-and-egg problem 00:45:50 surely, by definition you wouldn't want your own desires changed? 00:46:06 I desire to be more rational and less emotional in my decision making, but I'm not. 00:46:22 ais523: what about people who want to be smarter? 00:46:26 I certainly want to be smarter, but I'm not 00:46:53 I'm not convinced that a rationality tweak would do that 00:46:59 those were two separate things 00:47:02 have you read "The Caves of Steel" by Asimov? 00:47:17 alas no; summarise? 00:47:29 a robot joins the police force in a nearish-future Earth 00:47:35 a strong-AI robot, that is 00:47:57 (FWIW, Asimov thought the Three Laws were pretty good, so his competency regarding AI is questionable) 00:48:03 oh, yes 00:48:16 it's interesting to see what happened, at least; although I suspect in RL it might turn out rather differently 00:48:33 also, I think he saw the Laws as a safety valve that made robots suboptimal but was the only way they'd be accepted 00:48:34 anyway, go on 00:48:37 rather than something to make them better 00:48:42 ais523: oh, that's not the issue 00:48:48 the issue is that robots can still do evil with the Three Laws 00:48:53 it's not sufficient for Friendliness(TM) 00:49:02 basically, the robot jumped to all sorts of conclusions that the human didn't 00:49:16 okay... any justification for that happening 00:49:18 ? 00:49:21 and the human jumped to other conclusionss as a result of the robot's actions 00:49:25 and there were, more or less 00:49:40 in the end, the culprit turned out to be their boss 00:49:52 the robot wouldn't believe that, so instead spent his time looking for spy beams, etc 00:50:15 without any justification for the robot's behavior, I think that argument is monumentally weak... 00:50:26 taking the form "robots would do this, QED" 00:50:27 there was justification, but I don't think it was massively strong 00:50:32 it made for a good story, at least 00:51:01 I think the robot was too eager to assume that other people acted rationally, was the main assumption 00:51:07 "Like most people, I was initially confused by EMI’s decision to release remastered versions of all 13 albums by the Liverpool pop group Beatles, a 1960s band so obscure that their music is not even available on iTunes." --A.V. Club 00:51:18 ais523: well that's a rather obvious flaw in the robot's programming, then! 00:51:25 yes 00:51:39 certainly, the conclusion was that the programming wasn't terribly good for the purpose 00:51:57 I'm skeptical that such an AI could even be of human intelligence 00:52:02 incidentally, there was quite a lot of robots doing evil in the sequel 00:52:14 as it could not comprehend the concept of mind-of-a-different-type-than-mine 00:52:25 yep, I think it didn't 00:52:30 at least, it accepted statements to the fact 00:52:36 but it made incorrect assumptions otherwise 00:53:15 grr... internet, you're back up, so don't go all unusably slow on me 00:56:40 think my DNS is out 00:58:18 does it work numerically? 00:58:29 no idea, gimme some numerics. 00:58:43 74.125.45.100 00:58:46 that's one of Google's 00:58:56 works perfectly 00:59:17 207.7.108.149 is Esolang 00:59:27 ais523: what's opendns.net 00:59:41 66.116.109.44 00:59:50 "64 bytes from mdnh-parking-adult-109.las.marchex.com (66.116.109.44): icmp_seq=1 ttl=236 time=185 ms" 00:59:56 erm, okay, .com 00:59:57 I don't think that's the site you mean, though 01:00:08 208.67.219.99 01:00:51 eugh, DNS just came back up 01:00:59 oh, only partly 01:01:34 hmm... it seems like the Windows remote bluescreen bug has been fixed in Windows 7 RTM (although it is in Windows 7 RC) 01:01:42 the idea: send someone a packet, their computer bluescreens 01:02:01 uh, we discussed that before 01:02:03 remember? 01:02:07 ah, ok 01:02:11 you really expect me to remember? 01:02:11 ladies 'n gents, it seems opendns didn't help 01:02:17 ais523: earlier today, dude 01:02:19 I'm in 9 channels at once 01:02:28 at least two of which are actually active (not counting this one) 01:02:39 oh, that's why AnMaster never seems to have backlog! 01:02:43 it's obviously linear 01:02:48 and with his >500 channels... 01:03:12 (perhaps AnMaster would be best served by a client that joins every single channel on a server, but only shows ones you choose at a given moment...) 01:03:27 I doubt he actually reads all of them at the same time... 01:03:49 hmm... I think it's rather suspicious that a serious bug turns up in older versions but not the newest, around upgrade time 01:04:08 seriously? there's a reason it's a release candidate 01:04:13 and they said "don't use it on your main machine" 01:04:18 yes, I knoe 01:04:19 *know 01:04:20 and "don't use it unless you're a technical user" 01:04:23 but the bug's in Vista too 01:04:28 which certainly didn't have those disclaimers 01:04:39 so... let's get this straight 01:04:44 OTOH, most people who upgraded to Vista will probably upgrade to 7 01:04:44 microsoft left a bluescreen in vista to... 01:04:52 make them even more known as the crashy OS? 01:05:03 to reveal it when windows 7 came out as an upgrade persuader 01:05:06 it makes no sense for microsoft to leave such a bug in windows an update ahead of time 01:05:16 ais523: oh come on 01:05:19 in some places, Microsoft are running adverts trying to persuade people XP is insecure 01:05:26 ok, sorry, I just feel like conspiracy-theorizing 01:05:30 I'm not sure what's come over me 01:05:34 this is as tenuous as "the govt did 9/11 because glob boog duba" 01:06:04 ais523: also, it can be trivially disproved, which is a stupid thing for a conspiracy theory 01:06:08 specifically, if microsoft release a patch to vista 01:06:16 which they obviously will ASAP 01:06:20 oh, I can conspiratorise around that if I need to 01:06:24 it won't be very convincing 01:06:32 but it'll probably be as convincing as a typical conspiracy theory 01:08:47 doop dop 01:09:42 ais523: ping, do I have a connection? 01:09:48 pong 01:09:49 and probaby 01:09:51 *probably 01:10:53 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:14:43 god, how come this is so slow? 01:14:51 grumble 01:14:53 are you being packet-shaped? 01:14:53 orange suc 01:14:54 k 01:14:57 ais523: no 01:15:01 it was just down before 01:15:06 now it's going at something like 1B/hr 01:15:21 well, okay, 1B/2min 01:15:26 looking at this google page 01:17:22 ais523: could you set up a TCP/IP over IRC bridge? this socket still works :P 01:17:31 I don't think so 01:17:37 d'aww 01:18:08 imgur pages still load... 01:18:36 1B/2min? Aren't bulk transfers done using packets of about 1500 bytes? 01:21:02 Shush, you. 01:21:04 It's slow. 01:21:17 This google page is just the header and one ad, and its been loading for about 15 minutes. 01:23:17 Ok, WTF? 01:23:20 *Okay 01:23:25 It's mainly Wikipedia and Google. 01:31:12 Something in them is on Clearfeed? 01:32:52 Ilari: Oh, don't be silly. 01:32:57 My ISP just sucks shit. 01:33:11 I mean, it was down just an hour or so prior. 01:41:08 ARGH 01:41:16 I wish it would *consistently* suck. 01:49:38 So, anyone come up with something better than Cygwin yet, or will I have to take the plunge? 01:49:48 DJGPP exists, but it's worse 01:50:57 ais523: I very much get the impression DJGPP is old and DOS oriented 01:51:04 it is 01:51:17 it's entirely usable as a command-line unixy system, despite that 01:51:43 but does it emulate the POSIX API like Wine does for Windows? 01:51:46 that's what cygwin does, and it sucks 01:51:51 or does it produce native binaries 01:52:00 i.e., is it like a mini-kernel in userspace 01:52:01 the bits of it that emulate easily; but it's native binaries it produces 01:52:06 or does it just implement POSIX with Windows directly 01:52:13 it just doesn't implement things like fork() that can't be done easily in DOS 01:52:15 oh, ofc; you can't compile straight bash with djgpp for obvious reasons 01:52:19 which makes it unacceptable 01:52:31 there's emacs for djgpp 01:52:40 someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it 01:52:48 Deewiant? Azstal? 01:52:54 (fork() natively) 01:54:08 ais523: my measuring stick is basically "does drive:\foo as a path work without it mapping it itself" 01:54:19 because if it does, it's not emulating a unix FS, which is good 01:54:31 djgpp translates c:\autoexec.bat to /dev/c/autoexec.bat internally 01:54:39 exactly, and that's wrong 01:54:46 there shouldn't be a special path system as opposed to windows 01:54:48 because: 01:55:05 basically it's the distinction between "these tools, that normally run on unix systems, and use the POSIX API, can run on Windows, because we've implemented the POSIX API" (good) 01:55:07 vs 01:55:22 "unix lackeys! have no fear, we've hacked up a library which creates a faux unix environment on top of windows!" 01:56:24 cygwin is definitely the latter 01:56:26 mingw the former 01:56:30 but mingw has no fork() 01:56:52 mingw tries to compile POSIX source into definitely Windows binaries 01:56:58 basically, mingw + implementation of fork() using that undocumented syscall + coreutils, bash, etc. = perfect 01:57:01 IMO 01:57:09 what undocumented syscall? 01:57:21 [01:52]someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it 01:57:23 [01:52]Deewiant? Azstal? 01:57:25 [01:52](fork() natively) 01:57:31 I'll try and find it in my history 01:57:56 ais523: ZwCreateProcess[Ex] 01:58:10 apparently it's how cygwin does fork, ...maybe 01:58:16 oh, I thought it would be called something like Bear114 01:58:23 i'd try and cite that but my interwebs only likes about 3 sites 01:58:24 many of the undocumented syscalls are 01:58:29 ais523: well, not syscall per se 01:58:32 also, bear? 01:58:39 is that intentionally, like, roaring wood-shitting thing 01:58:47 ehird: more like teddy bear 01:58:51 or is it Boolean Excess Accumulator Register or something 01:58:52 ah. 01:59:08 you know the social engineering virus which went around several years ago, telling people to delete a particular critical system file because it was a virus? 01:59:15 ah yes. 01:59:22 bear thing 01:59:23 right. 01:59:30 it's the same bear, apparently 01:59:39 incidentally, is it just me or is \WINDOWS really unorganized? 01:59:52 the icons are fun, though :) 02:00:00 ehird: which version of Windows are you thinking of? 02:00:08 IIRC they reorganised it somewhat for Vista 02:00:08 well, I'm on xp atm 02:00:16 which is a lot saner in terms of command-line use 02:00:17 and it has wallpapers in the root, for instance 02:00:45 I think I'll try Windows 7 sometime. 02:00:57 although it forces cleartype 02:01:01 on some fonts 02:01:02 ehird: c:\windows\ was the standard place to save documents in windows 3.1 02:01:08 believe it or not 02:01:10 heh, because it was like unix /? 02:01:14 and the rest is for dos stuff? 02:01:16 at least, all the programs had it as their default path 02:01:26 I think it was simpler than that, the programs were all installed there 02:01:27 like, c:\windows\ is all your windows files, just like c:\programming\ 02:01:33 and it defaulted to current directory being the same as the executable 02:01:36 ais523: heh 02:01:43 and programs used current dir as default save path 02:01:46 and the rest is history 02:02:12 has anyone else here ever used Windows Me as their main OS? I did for years 02:02:24 it really is as terrible as they say. 02:02:26 I never used ME 02:02:35 *Me 02:02:39 it's an acronym, but it's Me 02:02:53 what, really? 02:02:55 yep 02:03:20 OTOH, my dad at least used to have a once-a-monster Pentium 4 really-tall workstation tower thingy, which he did audio editing on using some old version of Pro Tools (so quite a heavy workload), and it had Me and never crashed 02:03:26 so it's probably just very flaky drivers 02:03:33 included by default 02:04:15 "The Fault Tolerant Heap (FTH) is a subsystem of Windows 7 responsible for monitoring application crashes and autonomously applying mitigations to prevent future crashes on a per application basis. For the vast majority of users, FTH will function with no need for intervention or change on their part." 02:04:20 hmm... that scares me 02:04:36 does it mean that it attempts to figure out what the application meant to do in the case of things like null pointer dereference? 02:04:40 it's microsoft planning for a false flag military operation, cooperating with the reptilian NWO 02:04:45 ais523: probably not. 02:05:00 "The Fault Tolerant Heap is another example of the low level efficiency built into the system: FTH automatically corrects memory faults that cause applications to crash which has the pleasant side effect of preventing future crashes. How does FTH work, exactly? What types of memory problems does it address, specifically? How do developers monitor FTH events and can they override FTH's behavior? What does this all mean to 02:05:02 the average user? " 02:05:11 ok, I'm scared 02:05:22 even more annoyingly, the article doesn't actually answer that question 02:05:23 but then, who uses Windows because of its internals? 02:05:31 it just says "You will continue to learn about recoverability in Windows over the coming months here on C9." 02:05:40 :D 02:06:13 oh, there's a video, which i haven't seen 02:06:14 I once had a program on my computer that was supposed to prevent crashes somehow 02:06:31 from the people who brought you SoftRam! 02:06:34 It was a long time ago, and I remember little about it 02:06:47 there are two mp4 downloads, one marked "iPod", one marked "PSP" 02:07:51 ais523: resolution, etc 02:08:03 probably 02:09:58 chrome sure does use quite a lot of memory 02:11:50 I wonder why microsoft haven't tried to make cleartype not suck 02:11:55 are they all blind? 02:12:32 no, they actually like the look, is my guess 02:12:49 but that's basically impossible, ClearType is like the worst imaginable implementation of subpixel antialiasing 02:14:30 gah 02:14:32 this is unbearable 02:14:39 * ehird considers leeching neighbour's wifi 02:14:45 * ehird looks for WEP networks... 02:15:07 meh, only a WPA2 and I don't think I have the password to that one written down in any convenient place. 02:16:47 * Sgeo vaguely imagines taking a lotus coated surface and some silver-food-coloring treated water to school 02:20:13 Sgeo: You may want to see a therapist. 02:20:43 I wouldn't actually do it 02:22:02 I meant a therapist for thoughts, Sgeo. You know. They call them "therapists". 02:22:24 Nothing wrong with thoughts, unless they're suicidal 02:22:52 Or if I was seriously thinking about doing something reckless or authorities would assume is dangerous 02:23:04 Are you being purposefully stupid? I need to determine the best tone of facepalm to use. 02:25:58 Well, cygwin.com isn't loading. 02:26:09 beh 02:26:18 ais523: do you know the opendns nameserver IPs? 02:26:25 not off by heart 02:27:08 meh 02:27:13 -!- jix has joined. 02:33:10 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:36:13 "In a dramatic reversal of long-term IPv6 stagnation, global IPv6 traffic globally grew more than 1,400% in the last 12 months. Even more remarkable, this growth is due primarily to one application and one ISP." 02:36:22 That's an awful lot. 02:36:50 What application? 02:37:13 uTorrent. The ISP is Hurricane Electric (not a consumer ISP). 02:37:16 http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/09/who-put-the-ipv6-in-my-internet/ 02:39:36 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:44:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:45:39 GRAR 02:45:43 someone fix my interwebs. :| 02:46:19 wow, apparently OpenBSD releases don't even come signed or anything 02:46:33 it's secure ... if you trust theo absolutely. 02:57:29 ais523: what's google's ip? I don't THINK this is dns, but... 02:59:21 74.125.45.100 03:01:18 thanks 03:01:20 loads really quickly 03:02:14 cached? 03:02:45 nope 03:02:53 i tried a search. 03:03:08 OTOH, it's probably just that IP 03:03:15 i.e., my DNS is resolving to another one that I can't reach 03:03:27 because it happens on every page, and they load; just slowly 03:18:20 -!- coppro has joined. 03:48:20 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 03:52:35 -!- coppro has quit ("reboot"). 04:03:32 -!- coppro has joined. 04:16:55 ais523: seems the issue is with google.co.uk 04:17:00 for me 04:17:04 hmm... or not 04:24:38 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 04:25:43 -!- ehird_ has joined. 04:25:50 >:D< 04:26:00 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:26:05 how do I interpret that smiley? 04:26:06 -!- ehird_ has changed nick to ehird. 04:26:12 very carefully? ;-) 04:26:12 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit). 04:26:21 o_O 04:26:46 -!- ehird has joined. 04:27:17 anyone want to beam their properly working wifi to the uk? 04:27:31 can't, nobody's invented one yet ;-)) 04:27:32 that would be great. thank 04:27:33 s 04:27:37 s/\ns/s/ 04:27:47 Rugxulo: what, working wifi? 04:28:09 * Rugxulo surely doesn't have it, Broadc... (dies before speaking the name of the unspeakable one) 04:29:18 heh 04:29:25 I was whoising to find the country 04:29:29 though I should have guessed from "Broadcom" 04:32:23 bleargh 04:32:29 mmm? 04:32:44 it's annoying having an internet connection that only works on some IPs, you see 04:32:46 thus, "bleargh" 04:33:00 grumble... need to ditch Orange... 04:34:46 which is a bad ISP, incidentally. 04:35:35 especially as the support consists in its entirety of people who can't speak english reading lines of such stunning insight as "have you tried resetting all the router settings?" (in more dumbed-down words, naturally) from a book 04:36:03 don't all ISPs behave the same? 04:36:08 big ones, yes 04:36:23 dare I ask, what country are you in again? UK? 04:36:27 "the connection you're paid to give us is down" "um we'll send an engineer in 74 days" (It goes on 24 hours later) (73 days pass) "well we checked it and it is okay." 04:36:34 Rugxulo: yeah 04:36:52 switching to http://bogons.net/ is the plan... 04:36:57 heard today that wireless routers can cause headaches 04:37:09 like, problems, or literal headaches? 04:37:13 if the latter, that's FUD 04:37:13 literal 04:37:20 well, ya never know 04:37:23 WiFi is absolutely harmless, and many more things operate on the same band and more powerful than WiFi 04:37:29 on figurative headaches, I can agree!! 04:37:37 for instance, if WiFi is bad for you, radio has already killed us in a nuclear holocaust 04:38:42 I guess it depends on who you ask 04:39:11 if you ask crackpots, you can learn very interesting things about the world 04:39:15 unfortunately they're all false 04:39:44 well, ironically enough all the geniuses are often considered crackpots 04:40:09 anyway, Bogons seem good; they do IPv6, they have no transfer limit, they don't cap the raw ADSL stream, they're explicitly targeted at the tech-savvy, and it appears to consist of just two people (or at least, mainly); one of whom worked at the BBC in the early days of the internet and originally registered bbc.co.uk; a quick google search turned up a usenet posting by him linking to some... 04:40:11 ...information about ISPs that have Phorm (evil deep-packet-inspection based advertising thing) or something similar to that, anyway, in a thread critical of it. 04:40:29 of course it's still the UK, so we're talking the third-world 8mbit speed (only 6mbit at this exchange) 04:40:40 Rugxulo: they laughed at newton. they also laughed at bozo the clown 04:41:21 both studies and basic logic about the frequencies that have existed before WiFi show that it has no harmful effects 04:41:36 And when I thought the Republicans had run out of shameful things to do: Republican Representative yells at the President mid-sentence in mid-sentence, stating "YOU LIE!" 04:41:50 news at 6: coffee is bad for you; news at 10: coffee is good for you 04:41:53 "You lie. With your mouth! Lies. Come out of it." 04:42:12 Rugxulo: yep; scientific studies, the mainstream news channels. 04:42:14 pikhq, you mean tonight?? 04:42:14 what's the difference? 04:42:27 Rugxulo: Yes. 04:42:32 Also, "at this President mid-sentence in mid-sentence" 04:42:39 ehird: XD 04:42:41 The President is pioneering Xzibit sentence technology. 04:42:53 I hear he hired some Russian immigrants to do it. 04:43:03 *at the President, not this 04:43:48 * Rugxulo didn't watch the boring speech 04:44:53 how's it boring (note: I didn't either, for rather obvious reasons) 04:45:01 Rugxulo: It mostly consisted of "What the Republicans say has less factual basis than claiming the Earth is flat." 04:45:23 politics is crazy in America, and I'm not exactly savvy or interested, so ... 04:46:48 American politics: Would you like right-wing insanity, or right-wing insanity with a little more fascism and crazy "moral "platforms? 04:46:53 *"moral" platforms 04:47:04 Because hey, after all, The Other Party(tm) might win. 04:47:18 I'm in the US. I'm kinda forced to care. 04:47:40 Though I'd prefer an honest-to-god progressive. 04:48:00 here, you can stop caring now, I'll spoil the long-term for you: it keeps drifting to the right and nothing ever gets done 04:48:15 Except for acts of war. 04:48:23 i said long-term. 04:48:25 And threatening to unleash the very fires of hell on someone. 04:48:39 isn't that called christianity :P 04:48:47 i think the rest of the world has that too 04:49:21 I was referring to nukes. 04:49:28 i was referring to joking :| 04:49:44 I wasn't. A large number of Republicans wanted us to nuke Iraq... 04:49:46 * Rugxulo already saw that coming from far away 04:49:59 What, nuking Iraq? 04:50:01 I'm in the US too, but it's still mind-bogglingly annoying 04:50:06 no, your other references 04:50:19 plural? I'm not sure what you're referring to :P 04:50:52 no matter 04:51:12 :| 04:51:29 well thanks for making me immortal, my desperate urge to find out what you're referring to will keep me from resting in peace 04:51:31 :P 04:53:26 pikhq: what made the Republicans think that #esoteric would be any good at nuking Iraq? 04:53:55 ais523: us as in "the US". 04:54:04 I'm just confused Obama ain't exactly pulled everyone out of overseas wars 04:54:07 ais523 almost certainly knew that and decided to make a "joke" based on it 04:54:19 Rugxulo: you mean politicians aren't honest? 04:54:20 I 04:54:22 am 04:54:23 shocked 04:54:53 but it's some kind of twisted loyalty, pretending that somehow Afghanistan is so moral and acceptable and Iraq is some gaping "blood for oil" war 04:55:07 maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a huge difference 04:55:19 (besides the obvious) 04:56:59 it's just weird, that's all, "blah blah blah, war bad, Iraq bad, blah blah blah, we want out, blah blah blah (sends 30,000 more to Afghanistan) blah blah blah" ... huh??? 04:57:19 you mean... politicians... aren't consistent? 04:57:21 I 04:57:22 am 04:57:24 so 04:57:25 shocked 04:57:28 that 04:57:29 I 04:57:30 am 04:57:32 "our troops are dying for oil, blah blah blah, war bad (people keep signing up, everybody "supports" our troops) blah blah blah" 04:57:32 typing 04:57:33 enter 04:57:35 after 04:57:37 every 04:57:38 word 04:57:56 there's. another. meme. that's. quite. popular. that. isn't. so. annoying. 04:57:58 e.g. " 04:58:03 best. game. ever." 04:58:15 yes, but annoyingness is a virtue! 04:58:18 annoyingosity. 04:59:19 ehird: do you use a trackball? 04:59:51 * Rugxulo would be surprised if yes 05:00:06 Marble Madness, ftw! ;-) 05:00:09 coppro: any context to that? But no, I've never used one. I'd like to, but my gut feeling is that my thumb/fingers would be uncomfortable. Also, it has the same release-reposition problem for continued movement as a mouse. 05:00:18 Why? 05:00:27 I tried one out for the first time today, and it's awesome :) 05:00:33 Is it? 05:00:36 not a big ball you drag your hand across 05:00:44 What kind? 05:00:53 Ball in the middle, ball on your thumb, ball on your fingers (buttons to side)? 05:00:58 ball on your thumb 05:01:06 Surely that's awkward? 05:01:07 the release-reposition 05:01:10 I mean, my hand is small, sure, but... 05:01:15 thumb-ball trackballs are my favourite shape for them 05:01:20 *the release-reposition problem isn't that big, since it's only one motion 05:01:28 it's akward for all of 20 seconds 05:01:31 to move quickly, you generally leave the ball free-spinning as you move back 05:01:36 Isn't it harder to position exactly? I mean, these are just my impressions. 05:01:37 and precise movement's pretty easy too 05:01:42 Hmm. 05:01:45 it's easy to position exactly, and to move quickly 05:01:48 but they're different motions 05:01:49 I might just buy a trackball, then. 05:01:52 so it's hard to do anything in between 05:01:54 were I getting a desktop computer, I'd definitely get one 05:01:58 coppro: superior or inferior to the nub? 05:02:09 also, even optical trackballs seem to get dirty really often 05:02:18 ais523: optical trackball? 05:02:20 hmm... I don't think I was using it long enough to decide 05:02:21 whatever that is, it sounds silly. 05:02:29 ehird: where a laser detects movement rather than rollers 05:02:32 ehird: that uses optics to sense the ball itself, rather than rollers 05:02:41 well, not a laser usually 05:02:43 but it could be! 05:02:58 seems pointless. 05:03:40 coppro: do you know what model it was? 05:03:52 ehird: no clue, though I could find out easily 05:04:13 hmm... I've just noticed that my motor movement in my thumb is worse by far than my fingers 05:04:29 my fingers are faster, more accurate and easier to move 05:04:37 I guess that's why a thumb trackball seems really awkward 05:05:00 coppro: anyway, a trackball has the same context switch problem as a mouse 05:05:47 sure 05:06:04 which means it's hard to get too excited about, unless I was doing image editing 05:07:30 just out of curiosity, do you use vimperator? 05:07:54 saw someone using it today also; that was interesting 05:07:55 no 05:08:12 i don't think vim/emacs are really better than current UIs 05:08:38 vimperator? is that a Firefox add-on? 05:08:39 both suck a lot, and the more WIMPy UIs are more immediately discoverable than vimmy/emacsy ones, so I tend towards the former 05:08:46 Rugxulo: yes. 05:09:17 ah, see, that's the thing 05:09:28 it's keyboard browsing 05:09:32 which is, tbh, very attractive 05:09:39 I am well aware of what it is. 05:09:42 I stand by what I said. 05:09:58 there's some combination you press and it highlights every link with a number; you type in the number and you visit it 05:10:12 Currently, you can either choose an erroneously spatial interface or an undiscoverable, inscrutable keyboard interface. 05:10:28 The former is more common and discoverable, so I use them. Both suck. 05:11:04 ehird, I know you have tried Emacs recently, and the mouse support isn't exactly lacking 05:11:13 I have not tried it recently. I know emacs. 05:11:19 I used it because there wasn't really any other option. 05:11:39 But if you think I want a mouse-oriented WIMP interface, you're very mistaken. 05:12:13 ehird, I don't understand what you prefer then 05:13:08 you can't hate both keyboard and mouse and still like computers 05:13:16 I did not say keyboard vs mouse. 05:13:23 they aren't perfect (by far) but are all we have 05:14:06 That's understandable, considering it basically doesn't exist at the moment. But WIMP-style UIs are erroneously spatial, and vim/emacs-style UIs are not discoverable by the same mechanism as which they are used; take a WIMP toolbar: you see the options, and can click them: the way you discover them is the way you operate them: by spatial elements. Plus, they often sacrifice clarity for the... 05:14:08 ...sake of saving one or two keystrokes. 05:14:34 I have not yet found a perfect solution, but there are ideas in my head I'm toying with. 05:15:30 I think it's a tradeoff you can't avoid 05:15:37 I disagree. 05:15:46 WIMP UIs aren't discoverable because they're spatial. 05:15:56 They're discoverable and operable spatially, sure. 05:16:15 But just as you can have a UI operable by means other than spatial, you can have a UI discoverable by other means too. 05:17:33 Erroneously spatial explained roughly: In a spatial UI, there's a distance between two buttons, say; there are two choices and neither has more "difficulty" or inherent distance, but one of them is further away from your pointer: the act of mousing to one or the other is inherently unnecessary work, just as a 3D UI is bad because you have to continually move around things to find them. 05:19:54 * Rugxulo confused 05:21:35 It probably helps to have these thoughts occupy your mind for at least a month if you want to unerstand that. 05:21:53 *understand, rather; I am truly a terrible typer on this keyboard. 05:21:59 No, ChatZilla. Typer is a word. 05:22:14 I bet it accepts "typist" though 05:24:46 Fyes, proxably. Bet typist us tou mlch af u rel wurd fouowr mii tou grayc yt wtx usagez. 05:25:03 Well that's ridiculously hard to read. 05:29:10 -!- immibis has joined. 05:42:18 coppro: btw, the numbered links are near-useless 05:42:39 as it takes as much time to look at it, recognize the number, and type it as it does to mouse to it and click it 05:42:59 i love numbered links! 05:43:02 yes, but it means you aren't going to a mouse! 05:44:12 coppro: yet it saves you no time at all. also, with a nub mouse, there's no mouse context switch time 05:44:15 so mousing is faster 05:44:30 (clarification: the numbered links are actually a-z0-9) 05:44:37 iirc 05:44:48 *(iirc), maybe 05:46:11 you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? 05:46:12 yikes 05:47:01 bsmntbombdood_: leave 05:47:04 :P 05:47:29 bsmntbombdood_: Infinite motion without repositioning, bitch. No wrist strain, bitch. 05:47:33 wry? 05:47:50 what. 05:48:08 anyway, zero context switch time is hugely important 05:48:18 as it means the damn thing actually gets used 05:48:25 ehird completely missed the double entendre :( 05:48:36 though I guess e's a tad young 05:48:59 it was a pretty good double entendre 05:49:02 we need a pastebin for that 05:49:05 well, qdb 05:49:17 oh snap 05:49:21 i didn't even notice that 05:49:36 then what was the yikes for? 05:49:45 coppro: i'm a bit tired, actually 05:50:16 although i generally don't look out for innuendo for whatever reason 05:50:28 you're just young 05:50:55 um, no. 05:51:26 how old are you? 05:52:23 14, but seriously, I just don't look for innuendo most of the time 05:52:34 he's an old man at heart, and that's all that counts ;-) 05:52:34 hey, google loaded fast 05:52:35 yes. You're young. Trust me on this. 05:52:37 is my plight over? 05:52:48 coppro: did you know that if you state something over and over, it makes it true? 05:53:03 maybe you're just young for using a playground tactic :) 05:53:39 ehird: ah, but the catch is that you're too young to realize it's true 05:54:03 coppro: this _is_ an elaborate joke, right? otherwise you're just being incredibly stupid 05:54:24 * Rugxulo thought it was already established that everyone in this channel is quite young 05:54:38 Rugxulo: yes, gramps 05:54:40 ohh snap 05:55:01 * Rugxulo makes ehird play with his old Apple IIc for punishment ... 05:55:14 now come on, that's a terrible innuendo 05:55:21 it doesn't even make any sense 05:57:03 * coppro will be back in 2 or 3 years 05:57:27 coppro: umm... bye? 05:57:34 that's a rather anticlimatic exit 05:57:50 I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. 05:59:03 correlating that with anything said recently either that's a really crappy joke or isn't even intended to be a joke at all. 05:59:13 the former 06:00:56 i assume it'll just remain an elusive mystery for all time then 06:01:27 or a few years 06:03:49 is the joke "ha ha, in 2-3 years you will understand the amazing amazingosity of innuendo?" because that's not, you know, a joke, unless you mean the xkcd-style jokes which are perfect jokes except for their lack of humour 06:04:48 no 06:05:05 the joke is largely that you don't get the joke 06:05:33 i.e., there is no joke, i.e., it isn't the former, it's the latter 06:06:07 it is a joke. However, it's on you, and, what's more, you don't get it. 06:06:16 which makes it all the funnier 06:06:42 i sure hope my mild bemusement is worth whatever effort it took to cook it up. 06:08:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:12:17 coppro: the only joke I could think of is "I'll be back in 2 or 3 years [when you finally understand this joke]" 06:12:26 which popped to mind almost immediately after reading it, but I dismissed it as too crap. 06:12:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:13:11 hmm... I won't answer that, because no matter what I say, you'll take the answer the wrong way 06:14:03 not answering is another form of answer that can be wrongly taken in exactly the same way, so that makes no sense :) 06:14:40 true 06:15:17 nonetheless, if I answer honestly, you'll probably get angry at me because you don't understand it 06:16:02 do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. 06:17:32 which, I presume, is Yet Another Joke oh the veritable rivers of laughter 06:17:54 no 06:18:36 however, some things can only be learned, not taught 06:18:52 (no, I'm not going to elaborate on what those things are) 06:19:03 coppro, master of zen and vague bullshit 06:19:09 indeed! 06:19:24 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:19:37 well that was fun, whereby fun I mean tiring 06:20:00 -!- coppro has joined. 06:20:48 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:21:24 -!- coppro has joined. 06:22:15 haha 06:30:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:34:08 do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. 06:34:29 if so, could you invite ehird's mirror twin here? should be interesting. 06:34:46 i'm not sure such an entity could be described as ehird 06:35:22 ghird naturally, g for good rather than evil 06:35:41 depends on your definition of good i guess 06:36:53 of course he shouldn't stay too long. he would probably be destined for a horrible fate: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth 06:37:56 i clicked it but my half-working internet connection doesn't work on that particular IP 06:37:59 clever internet connection! 06:38:14 well, it would work if i waited a few years... 06:38:16 LIKE COPPRO 06:38:46 curses, foiled again 06:39:03 oerjan: out of curiosity, do you get his joke? 06:39:37 oh, I meant to say: we do have a qdb, ais523 06:39:43 oh, good point 06:39:44 someone add it? 06:40:06 ehird: i didn't find the actual joke yet 06:40:14 oerjan: "I'll be back in 2 to 3 years" 06:40:20 perhaps with different grammar, I don't recall 06:40:46 * oerjan sees nothing wrong with that sentence's grammar 06:40:46 oerjan: you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? 06:40:49 oerjan: be warned that if you don't get it, we'll hear from coppro that you're just too young. too young. 06:40:53 ais523: no 06:40:57 that's the one before 06:41:02 oh, there's another? 06:41:03 coppro made that one after 06:41:13 [05:57]* copprowill be back in 2 or 3 years 06:41:15 [05:57]coppro: umm... bye? 06:41:16 [05:57]that's a rather anticlimatic exit 06:41:18 [05:57]I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. 06:41:51 (continue similar "too young!" and "it's funny because you're not sure what I mean" for about half an hour) 06:41:58 ehird: well i should be too young, since i aspire to be filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day. unfortunately the universe fails to oblige. 06:42:16 *not forgetting to brush my teeth, mind you 06:43:10 the only toothpaste is overpowering bubblegum flavor and has sugar in it. 06:43:27 the water is Ribena 06:44:36 that is not what i aspire to. you are confusing it with this world's ersatzes. 06:45:17 i am merely describing the world in which ehird-the-innocent-14-year-old-oblivious-to-genitalia-and-all-that-entails exists 06:45:22 don't shoot the messenger 06:45:26 ah. 06:47:59 ehird, are you sure your Internet troubles are the ISP and not the wireless? 06:48:20 considering it was immediately preceded by my router's connection page showing invalid authentication/ppp failed/etc, yes. 06:48:26 also, I'm not on WiFi. 06:48:41 unless the ethernet cable is distorting my packets! 06:48:43 okay, but you mentioned wanting a good wifi I thought 06:48:44 clearly I need a gold-plated one. 06:48:59 yes, because running an ethernet cable across continents turns out to be even less practical. 06:49:07 what OS? 06:49:16 the router console is a web page. 06:49:47 no, I mean, do you have access to a different OS for test purposes? 06:49:53 sure. 06:50:00 but I am 99% sure. 06:50:14 the interwebs went down, they came back not at all, then they came back mostly but with some IPs being skittish 06:50:16 99% sure of what? router's fault? ISP? 06:50:24 then google started working smoothly, then stopped again 06:50:26 Rugxulo: ISP 06:50:33 what brand router? 06:50:36 remember that I've had many bad experiences with this ISP 06:50:42 okay 06:50:51 also, it's an Orange Livebox. technically it's just "rented" 06:51:05 could be just some old firmware bug, who knows 06:51:11 no 06:51:31 it has all the characteristics of dodgy routing by my ISP 06:51:39 okay 06:57:21 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:05:44 huh ... anyone ever taken a look at Befreak? 07:05:51 i think so. 07:05:53 "Once we move to 37signals Accounts we will be hashing passwords." 07:06:01 ^ from the company that brought you Ruby on Rails... 07:09:10 ... 07:10:07 "..." indeed. 07:13:15 hmmm 07:13:24 the .tar.gz doesn't have BFC like they claim 07:13:32 and no docs included either (apparently) 07:13:45 nsl.com has a befreak page. 07:13:51 though obviously k-oriented 07:13:57 also an implementation 07:14:24 and k3 for windows to run it is available in nsl.com/misc or somewhere. 07:16:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:17:18 K looks more confusing than Befreak!! 07:18:00 actually the Forth-ish stack ops ("over", "under") seem appealing 07:18:13 maybe I should buckle down and just learn enough Forth to write my own Befunge93 interpreter ;-) 07:20:32 K is quite impenetrable at first but is learnable in about an hour. 07:20:57 (as in, fully grasping the basic concept and knowledge about most of the operators) 07:21:18 it's array based, like APL 07:21:19 Backflip, what kind of stupid name is that? ;-) 07:21:41 ehird, I dunno ... 07:22:53 * Rugxulo doesn't understand the reason for inventing Backflip ... 07:23:15 Rugxulo: it was an exercise in how computable those simple rules could be 07:23:26 output only as extension?? 07:23:32 there was a post on esoteric.sange.fi where someone was suggesting adding them to Befunge to provide function-call capability 07:23:39 tarpits aren't meant to be useful 07:23:40 and I/O has nothing really to do with how a language operates computationally 07:24:01 it's about theoretical properties, mathematical beauty and purity, etc 07:24:20 okay, just less fun when you can't do as much with it :-/ 07:25:58 Rugxulo: btw, how the living fuck are you meant to pronounce your name? 07:26:47 hmm... Unassignable needs more love 07:26:54 it's really fun and challenging to program in 07:27:17 i tried 07:27:19 but gave up 07:27:21 :P 07:27:46 I assume you mean my nickname as I haven't told you my real (pronounceable) name :-) 07:28:00 roo-JOO-loh 07:28:29 you know, I'm pretty sure I don't know of any languages with silent Xs. 07:28:35 in (drum roll please) Esperanto, an artificial spoken language older than all of us combined (1887) 07:28:48 it's supposed to be "g with circumflex" 07:28:52 ahh 07:29:02 lojban in your face :) 07:29:33 ─¥ 07:29:42 hmmm, that doesn't show up correctly for me 07:29:56 Ruĝulo 07:29:59 there ;-) 07:30:05 esperanto! 07:30:08 (good ol' "esperanto-postfix" in Emacs, heh) 07:30:10 I should have recognised the notation 07:30:17 eo.wikipedia.org accepts it too 07:30:28 esperanto is boring :| 07:30:33 it's quite common to use "gx" (although "gh" is more official) 07:30:35 yay, my keyboard can type ĝ 07:30:54 mine probably could too via Windows input crapola, but I'm too lazy to learn how 07:31:09 ehird, do you really know / like lojban? 07:31:20 (I mean, speaking of esoteric languages ...) 07:31:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:31:22 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 07:31:23 I like Lojban, unfortunately I don't know it, although I started learning it before 07:31:28 I do hope to be fluent in it one day 07:31:34 why is Esperanto boring? 07:31:47 it's exactly like every other natural language, except human-constructed 07:32:19 less wonky in the grammar bits (more rigid spelling and pronunciation), that should be a good thing 07:33:22 but yeah, if you wanna learn Lojban, you gotta get some reading material, which is probably a lot more scarce than E-o stuff 07:33:28 good luck :-/ 07:33:39 no, there's a wonderful online book about it 07:34:13 I was making sentences about how I say that I say that my name is [Elliott Hird, except not perfectly because it isn't totally pronounceable in Lojban] in no time :P 07:34:40 presumably your name would be pronounced exactly as you say it normally 07:34:49 no, Lojban doesn't have the sounds for that 07:34:50 foreign languages usually don't change that except for written purposes 07:35:01 Lojban isn't the one talking, you are ;-) 07:35:04 lojban has a 1:1 written-said correspondence 07:35:21 Rugxulo: you must transliterate your name to use it in a lojban sentence 07:35:25 full stop, no exceptions 07:35:36 well, there might be a funky quoting thing 07:35:42 but that'd just be awkward 07:36:25 I'm just saying, I don't think Bill Clinton would call himself "Vilhelmo Klintono" just for linguistic sake 07:36:39 so what? it's how lojban works 07:36:51 it's simply the language 07:37:09 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:46:17 bah, 99-bottles-of-beer.net Befunge example is weird, seems to never end, even wraps (?) to negative numbers ... that can't be right, can it?? 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:04:11 It does work with cfunge. Well, the downloadable version, anyway. 08:05:54 The inline version seems to have "\0\0" replaced with "{CODE}{CODE}", which is not very good; probably some sort of regexp backreference mishap. 08:06:20 maybe that's why 08:06:41 the tips on the site said change "{CODE}{CODE}" to "{}{}" which still didn't exactly work like I expected 08:07:33 That's quite a silly tip. 08:08:03 Maybe I should make a better tip. 08:09:27 goat head 08:15:33 Heh; when I wrote {CODE} in the comment field, it got substituted with the (broken) program, while the \0s in the comment turned into {FORM_COMMENT}. Impressive. 08:15:50 Fortunately the captcha also didn't work without cookies, so that version didn't get sent. 08:19:03 wacky 08:19:10 ah well, no big loss I guess 08:19:22 P.S. Found a very small (< 1k) Perl version of a Befunge interpreter 08:19:37 I know mtve also wrote a small one too, but this one is more compact :-) 08:19:38 http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol4_3/tpj0403-0017.html 08:23:02 mostly works although "?" may not (dunno) 08:23:17 can't tell if the comments are comments or code!! ;-) 08:25:33 Incidentally, the Javascript Befunge-93 at http://www.quirkster.com/js/befunge.html -- which I've used when in some unfriendly place without a Befunge interpreter handy -- makes # an infinite loop when executed from right to left. 08:26:06 It does jump properly left-to-right; I guess it just adds a (1, 0) vector after the normal delta, instead of moving twice. 08:27:28 a lot of interpreters obviously aren't very well tested 08:27:53 part of that is the fact that most examples are hard to come by (besides the "official" distribution) 08:28:02 not a lot of up-to-date Befunge pages 08:28:21 (Okay, in fact it just initializes the '#' command handler as "dir", which is the current-movement-function variable, and obviously gets the initial value stuck in the table. 08:28:56 I've been told that Bequnge also incorrectly handles # 08:29:53 That page says it's been tested against the Befunge-93 portion of Mycology; I guess that only does jumps in one direction. 08:30:32 Deewiant: Maybe you should add a # in some other direction, too; you're supposed to be thorough, aren't you? 08:31:45 is there enough space? 08:32:00 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:33:24 and BTW, I can't find any links to "Betty" (although Wikipedia mentions it) 08:34:36 mooz had a rather nice jsbef (peculiarities: it reads a spec about the actual execution using a nifty simplified markup from a text field on the page, so you can do befunge variants trivially), but there's just the archive.org and local copies now. 08:34:51 I probably should ask him about whether I could re-publish it somewhere. 08:36:15 js as in Javascript? 08:36:35 Yes. 08:36:52 * Rugxulo saw a Silverlight one earlier today, didn't bother, even the author admitted it was buggy, and even he only tested on two samples 08:37:51 http://web.archive.org/web/20060925160700/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/jsbef/index.html if you want to see the archived copy; I'm not sure it works after archive.org mangling, but the befunge command descriptions in the text field are nicely concise, especially given that those are what's executed. 08:38:01 Hey, I should be at lunch now. 08:42:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:43:51 so mycology's mycorand.bf is the only useful part for Befunge93? 08:53:43 mycology.b98 and mycouser.b98 both should work in a Befunge-93 interpreter, as long as it ignores the out-of-the-box (i.e. outside 80x25) text. 08:54:06 You can cut the corresponding squares off them if not. 08:55:02 okay, thanks 08:55:45 At least that's what I remember hearing; it's not *my* test suite. 09:07:04 fizzie: No, I'm supposed to assume that if something works one way it works the other way as well :-P 09:07:48 It's almost conceivable that + fails if adding 42 and 2 but always otherwise returns the correct result... I can't test /everything/ 09:07:55 I think I have such a disclaimer in the readme 09:08:30 Yes, but there are a lot more integer-pairs than cardinal directions. Still, I do get the point. 09:08:50 There's not enough room to test all cardinal directions, I think 09:08:57 I'm just sure that someone, somewhere, somehow has implemented [] so that they work in some directions but not all. 09:09:00 West might still be fittable 09:09:16 [ and ] are tested using a noncardinal vector 09:09:24 Which should hopefully guarantee that the cardinals work. 09:09:35 I guess that's reasonable. 09:09:49 They're probably used for all the cardinals before that anyway. 09:12:59 -!- Pthing has joined. 09:13:59 fizzie: Mycology's Befunge-93 area does do a _,#! #:< for output at least once 09:14:48 And when testing # over the edge, it goes west. 09:14:53 Hm; maybe the page was lying, then. Or just used some ancient version. 09:15:08 # over the edge was there even in ancient versions 09:15:27 _,#! #:< might not have been 09:16:05 Ancient version of the interpreter itself, then. 09:18:59 -!- ehird has joined. 09:19:15 lol 09:19:19 some people are crazy 09:19:20 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge 09:20:11 What's so crazy about that? 09:20:52 it seems like a working code to me 09:21:18 Deewiant: What's crazy is that it doesn't use the >:#,_ print-loop idiom even though it's going eastwards. 09:21:51 the whole site (Uncyclopedia) and its explanation of the "two cows" is crazy 09:21:53 It's not necessarily obvious unless you're experienced 09:22:02 plus the "COWBOL" and Visual Basic examples ;-) 09:22:14 It even puts an explicit 0 instead of relying on empty stack popping 09:22:28 it's all a joke ;-) 09:22:57 why not x86 assembly? 09:23:08 Because it assumes an OS by necessity 09:23:44 well, unless it used libc, but I guess that's silly 09:23:53 s//sillier/ 09:24:09 do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) 09:24:26 The N64 and Game Boy assembly examples are funny. They don't exactly make much sense (both just set some sort of external value, GB one even referring to the undeclared num_cows) but the way they do it looks very realistic. 09:24:39 got the idea at the glimpse 09:24:50 I can easily imagine seeing a ";number of cows can only be modified during vblank" comment in a GB program. 09:25:38 lol 09:25:46 * Rugxulo just saw the Atari Jaguar page ... very funny 09:26:23 perfect pic!! 09:26:51 I don't like the python implementation much 09:27:19 "Jaguar was released in the US in 1992 to much fanfare, some trumpetfare and a good amount of bus fare." 09:27:27 And the N64 "use 'sw ..., offset(reg)' even if it does do a signed offset, instead of loading the full 8015F15C value to a register, since it saves an instruction" is also pretty realistic. 09:29:25 "To make matters worse, the only programming language that the Atari Jaguar supported was the Brainfuck language borrowed from the Amiga." 09:32:44 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:33:00 -!- immibis has joined. 09:34:49 -!- immibis_ has joined. 09:35:43 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 09:35:49 For those who are wondering (which is exactly none of you), the C64 basic entry "10 POKE 808,237" makes the STOP key stop working, so you can't interrupt the cow-printing. (Or at least it won't do what the key would normally do.) 09:35:51 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 09:37:32 stops stop, eh? ironic ;-) 09:38:18 (Unless the 237 is actually the correct value to point at, but I don't see why anyone should do that. Except maybe to make sure you *can* interrupt it properly, but that doesn't sound very likely.) 09:39:09 another gem from Uncyclopedia: 09:39:14 "Because Esperanto is not compatible with Electronic devices, most Esperantists have gotten by using the letters h, x, ^, and 卐. So the sentence 'good morning' becomes 'hxx^卐h^ 卐xh^x'." 09:40:49 Your Father was a baboon's rump and your mother spent all her time backed up against the wall by sailors! 09:40:49 Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, laŭŝajne estas rano en mia bideo. 09:40:54 (nice Red Dwarf reference) 09:44:13 ah well, it's late 09:44:16 nite all 09:44:18 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 10:06:21 -!- immibis has quit ("Download IceChat at www.icechat.net"). 10:40:34 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:54:17 -!- adam_d has joined. 11:01:39 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 11:04:40 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge <-- looking at the TI-BASIC further below makes me laugh 11:05:12 * AnMaster wonders if skipping closing parenthesis is actually valid. brb going to test 11:05:27 heh it seems so 11:06:04 The ZX Spectrum one amused me 11:06:45 hah 11:07:05 find needs some -exec that runs processes concurrently 11:07:26 I am annoyed by the pointlessness of some parts of some of the entries; for example, the SQL one has a "LIMIT 2" completely arbitrarily; it's an aggregate function call, it will never return more than one row. 11:07:30 AnMaster: Use xargs and & 11:07:44 even something crude like splitting in roughly two equal sized chunks would be useful 11:08:03 Deewiant, how would that work? 11:08:40 hey the dc one... 11:08:58 Without the xargs, even: find foo | while read -r x; do stuff x &; done 11:09:25 Deewiant, I would prefer to not start one process per file 11:09:32 because there are thousands of files to be processes 11:09:34 processed* 11:09:43 This is Linux, processes are cheap 11:09:54 Deewiant, not when those will do a lot of work at once 11:10:04 Deewiant, I wanted to use both cores, not get OOM 11:10:32 Well yes, if you're doing something expensive then that's probably not a good idea 11:10:52 because the processes are quite memory intensive, each one will need a few MB during processing each file 11:11:23 It's more about time; if they complete in 0.001s it doesn't matter if they need a few MB 11:11:38 Deewiant, maybe 4-5 seconds per file 11:11:57 If it's just a one-shot thing, just do the find, dump results to file, split it in twain, run two instances of your process. 11:12:06 fizzie, not a one shot thing. 11:12:13 fizzie, because yes I thought about that 11:12:18 If it's not a one-shot thing, make a script which does that. :-P 11:12:23 Deewiant, :P 11:12:35 I do have a bit of Perl for that sort of thing, but it's strictly for dispatching processes for our Sun Grid Engine cluster, not a general-purpose thing. 11:12:38 well maybe I'll write a parallel find wrapper script for find 11:13:22 AnMaster: This is a solved problem, if you want a more permanent solution 11:13:36 Deewiant, ? 11:13:42 oh? 11:13:42 See https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/parallel/ for example 11:13:56 savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. 11:13:56 The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. 11:13:56 (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) 11:13:59 meh 11:14:01 Yes, I know 11:14:30 Ah, it's a cacert cert. 11:15:33 Deewiant, ah yes seems very useful 11:15:43 wonder if ubuntu has a package for it 11:16:20 Arch doesn't seem to, at least 11:16:24 hm doesn't seem so 11:17:33 Though xargs does have the -P flag too, like they mention. 11:19:04 ah that seems useful too 11:19:14 Reading the manpage is always a good thing to do first. 11:19:17 If you don't need the fancy, that just might do it. The parallel page lists all the shortcomings, though. 11:22:39 xargs seems enough here 11:42:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:43:35 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:43:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:43:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:48:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:52:22 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds). 11:58:49 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 12:05:01 Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero 12:07:03 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:07:33 Deewiant, digg databases? what happened? 12:08:14 Click on the first link and you'll see the story. 12:16:34 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 12:26:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:27:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:29:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:39:40 -!- ehird_ has joined. 12:57:23 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:22:52 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:51:06 -!- ineiros has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:52:59 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 13:56:47 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:14:36 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:14:45 Hi :-) 14:30:06 An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." 15:00:24 laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl 15:18:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:39:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit. 15:45:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:06:31 Deewiant, do you think they ever heard of "benchmarking"? 16:06:56 Of course they've heard of it, they benchmarked their PHP to beat their MySQL 16:07:28 Deewiant, I have a really hard time to believe that php would be faster than mysql at it. Even though mysql sucks. But so does PHP 16:07:51 It can easily be faster if the way they're doing the query and/or their DB structure sucks 16:08:20 guess so 16:09:32 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving"). 16:21:29 * oerjan finds himself humming "summon bigger fish" 16:25:06 oerjan, heh 16:45:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:10:38 oerjan, oh and I thought I mentioned iwc earlier today, seems I misremembered 17:12:18 oerjan, I don't get iwc today though 17:12:47 even with the annotation? 17:13:17 `define knock 17:13:18 * deliver a sharp blow or push :"He knocked the glass clear across the room" \ * rap with the knuckles; "knock on the door" \ * the sound of knocking (as on a door or in an engine or bearing); "the knocking grew louder" 17:13:30 oerjan, well the issue was the reverse, I understood it was supposed to be a pun on that word, just not what else it was supposed to be like 17:13:39 what has knock got to do with it? 17:13:54 and I know what knocking is 17:13:59 at least some of the meanings 17:14:05 those mentioned there at least 17:14:10 i am guessing you are missing the right meaning of knock 17:14:18 which was not listed there 17:14:22 oerjan, and that one was? 17:15:06 'find fault with; express criticism of; point out real or perceived flaws; "The paper criticized the new movie"; "Don't knock the food--it's free"' 17:15:45 ah didn't know that meaning 17:21:27 oerjan, what on earth has the vlc logo has got to do with that song though? I'm pretty sure that cone thing near the start was the vlc logo 17:25:13 * oerjan cannot make out the lyrics enough to tell if there's anything relevant said at that point 17:25:42 *sung 17:25:53 mhm 17:26:40 since I was playing it *in* vlc I first thought vlc failed in some way and was displaying a dummy image or something like that 17:28:23 now it _is_ also a generic road sign... 17:29:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_cone 17:30:31 oerjan, well yes but that specific image of it... 17:30:38 oerjan, is exactly the vlc logo 17:30:57 yeah but it may still be used for the generic meaning 18:10:09 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:32:14 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 19:07:19 -!- impomatic has left (?). 19:19:05 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 19:47:59 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:50:16 01:24:09 do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) 19:50:22 I've yet to see anything funny on Uncyclopedia 19:50:26 somehow I doubt this will be the first 19:58:17 -!- ehird_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]"). 19:58:35 -!- ehird has joined. 19:59:53 Deewiant, ever considered a fingerprint for gettext? 20:01:32 Given that I can't even remember what gettext is... nope 20:01:39 Some localization thing? 20:01:54 I18N thingy? 20:10:18 Deewiant: man 3 gettext 20:10:41 Ilari: google.com/search?q=gettext 20:27:34 gettext is for lazy fornrs! 20:31:29 Yes, "L2SPK enlgz", right? 20:31:52 Is "fornrs" short for "fornicators"? 20:33:27 03:13:59 meh 20:33:34 you know the SSL system is broken anyway? 20:33:43 ehird, context? 20:33:51 03:13:56 savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. 20:33:52 03:13:56 The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. 20:33:54 03:13:56 (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) 20:34:05 ehird, yeah I know it is broken 20:34:07 SSL is useful for avoiding eavesdropping; the verification system is shittier than a pile of bricks that are shit. 20:34:17 ehird, is still irritating when firefox does that however 20:34:26 so disable it :P 20:34:30 how? 20:34:40 dunno, it's probably in about:config 20:34:44 or an extension 20:34:47 mhm 20:34:56 it is possibly the most annoying error page ever though, I agree 20:35:09 it takes three clicks and a wait of almost a second to bypass it 20:35:15 ehird, especially since there are so many clicks to get around it yeah 20:35:33 ehird, also what... you agreed with me? 20:35:33 and I have no doubt the people who made it have never read a book on usability, because that shit does *not* make the user comprehend what you're trying to tell them 20:35:34 ARGH 20:35:41 the universe is going to end this time 20:35:41 AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird. 20:35:51 ehird, oh ok. Nice to meet you 20:35:52 i jump around in fields of candy floss all day and am filled with childlike naivete. 20:35:55 didn't you get the memo? 20:36:06 -MemoServ- You have 0 memos (0 new). 20:36:07 nop 20:36:29 torernts are unreasonably slow 20:36:44 http download: ~800kiB/s 20:36:52 torrent: ~150kiB/s 20:36:58 *torrents 20:37:02 this is on a high-popularity torrent too 20:37:14 ehird, what if everyone was downloading from the same server at the same time? would you get ~800kiB/s then too? 20:37:25 AnMaster: yep, see e.g. usenet providers 20:37:27 You can set browser.ssl_override_behavior to 2 from the default 1, in which case it automatically downloads the certificate; that's a bit less clicking involved. 20:37:41 it's almost impossible to get a usenet provider to give you much less than your connection speed 20:37:46 ehird, well assuming a server with good bw. but that costs quite a bit 20:38:20 evidently not too much; you can get unlimited download, uncapped, uncensored usenet with a huge number of groups for $15/mo 20:39:25 well I meant for the server hoster, and yes it would work out if you get customer to pay. But I haven't seen linux distros over usenet. And linux distros over torrent is quite common 20:39:38 Of course there are Linux distros on usenet 20:39:39 often where they can't afford bw 20:39:49 Usenet has everything 20:39:55 ehird, oh really? would be split into thousands of messages for the iso? 20:40:06 AnMaster: Modern clients handle that automatically, dood. 20:40:13 They show it as one and download them all automatically. 20:40:15 then combine them 20:40:18 hm 20:40:28 ehird, possibly I haven't used any modern client then 20:40:33 I think I got some Debian disk image or other such thing torrented several megabytes per second. But I'm not completely certain on this. 20:40:47 AnMaster: Well, obviously I mean binary oriented clients. 20:40:55 fizzie, well I maxed my connection speed on the gentoo torrents a few times 20:40:57 fizzie: Yes, everyone loves the Linux ISOs. Not so much love for the Windows ISOs. 20:41:18 Anyone can max out their connection on Ubuntu 17.97 Pooping Porpoise. 20:41:36 ehird, well if a torrent isn't popular, what do you expect? 20:41:46 1775 seeds, 2537 peers. 20:41:49 Yep, it's a ghost down. 20:41:51 *town 20:41:53 and for ubuntu for example? 20:41:55 Oh, and here's why it doesn't fetch the certificate by default: 20:41:56 Nobody downloading this, nosiree. 20:41:58 AnMaster: Similar numbers. 20:41:59 "This patch sets a default of 1, meaning that the cert dialog will be 20:41:59 pre-populated with the site's URL, but as Kai mentions in bug 401575, by not 20:41:59 pre-fetching it, we reduce the amount of text the user sees, and remove the 20:41:59 ability to immediately click the override button." 20:42:08 Except all the Ubuntu ivory tower people have 100000000000000000000 jiggabit connections :P 20:42:42 The problem with SSL is that it's trying to replace human reason in determining whether you can trust something 20:42:48 and that will simply never work 20:43:01 * AnMaster notes "falling tree" animation in widelands is broken when you run at 2x normal speed. 20:44:08 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm 20:44:17 I hope they used TCP/IP over carrier pigeon. 20:44:24 Otherwise I call for a rematch. 20:45:03 ehird, hm 20:45:29 ehird, with QoS? 20:45:29 ("Sure, the bandwidth is nice, but the latency sucks." // this) 20:45:36 AnMaster: I don't know what that is 20:45:53 also, they should have made it carry an SSD 20:45:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:45:58 I'm sure pigeons can handle 81g :P 20:45:59 ehird, there is a RFC for IP over avian carrier with QoS 20:46:00 ... 20:46:10 Why ...? 20:46:17 Have I committed some nerd sin by not knowing that? 20:46:21 no 20:46:53 anyway, did they use QoS or not ;P 20:47:07 Also, SSL has global namespace. 20:47:09 They used a USB memory stick. 20:47:15 Ilari: yes? 20:47:20 ehird, -_- You don't know what QoS is? 20:47:41 I know what QoS stands for. 20:47:45 good 20:49:56 Global namespace is not good for trustworthiness determination. 20:50:44 Indeed. 20:51:46 mountainamerica.com? What the heck is that? Etc... 20:52:00 A squatter page :P 20:52:14 Anyway, DNS really needs distributing. Fuck the root servers. 20:52:24 More like phishing page (I don't recall what the exect name was). 21:02:31 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 21:05:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:05:27 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:32:48 Oh, and speaking of the traffic cone, it's not exactly the VLC logo image. For one thing, in the video there's a dark ellipse on top of the cone; that's not in the VLC logo. And the VLC logo has a bit of reflections going on in there. (Admittedly it could be an older VLC logo, since it's so very similar. But it's not the same image that's in icon and about-box of the current VLC versions.) 21:33:22 traffic coon 21:33:49 04:05:01 Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero 21:33:51 haha sweet 21:36:46 06:30:06 An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." 21:36:48 wow 21:48:56 Maybe they're doing a full cartesian join :P 21:49:58 That... Is quite retarded. 22:01:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:13:45 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:44:03 -!- adam_d has joined. 23:08:04 -!- coppro has joined. 23:12:10 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 23:18:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:18:55 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:40:31 -!- Asztal has joined. 23:44:15 bo-ring 23:56:05 -!- Gracenotes has joined.