< 1252540852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252540923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1252540924 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252541476 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252541877 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.69.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252541895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of internet outages, the cosmic irony of the universe gave me one. < 1252541907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not stupid any more! Hooray! < 1252541934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:39:19 BTW, Ben Olmstead shown his face recently? < 1252541936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:40:57 (guess not) < 1252541937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last seen early 2009, commenting on the 99 bottles of beer site on a malbolge submission < 1252541945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:53:43 what's the diff between Befunge97 and 98? < 1252541951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge97 was weirder, iirc < 1252541953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as that 96? < 1252541956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're both lost. < 1252541961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster found some dox on them < 1252541970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1252541984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha chatzilla prefixes things with "=-=" < 1252541991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the - is below the = slightly < 1252541999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's peeved that you changed your name, ais523 < 1252542013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're using chatzilla? < 1252542020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of program you'd avoid using for UI reasons < 1252542031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's pretty good on windows, actually < 1252542036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the configuration UI is rather bad < 1252542044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't use it connected to a browser, obviously; that's just stupid < 1252542046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I only used it on SunOS < 1252542061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never try and use it on OS X after using OS X for any length of time < 1252542074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess what would happen < 1252542075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very upsetting < 1252542096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what do OSX users do when a typical Windows or Linux user would do pgup, pgdown, home, or end/ < 1252542108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chord for them on OSX is basically impossible to reach, worse than just using the mouse < 1252542126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page up, page down, command-left or ctrl-A, command-right or ctrl-E. < 1252542139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, emacs bindings for home and end, that makes sense < 1252542146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Mac I was using didn't have page up or page down keys < 1252542147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-A for the start of the physical line, command-left for visual line (i.e., line wrapping) < 1252542153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was it? < 1252542154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command-left is just impossible for me to press < 1252542162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure, I'm not a master of Mac knowledge < 1252542163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the left command key < 1252542167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press left with your right hand < 1252542170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a borrowed one from someone else's < 1252542173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it a notebook or a desktop? < 1252542177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebook < 1252542183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm unused to using two hands to chord < 1252542195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it white, silver or silver and black? < 1252542198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chord with one where possible, so as to move the other hand in place for the next key < 1252542200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was white < 1252542214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either a non-first-generation iBook or a MacBook, then < 1252542222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, page up is Fn-up I think < 1252542224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and page down fn-down < 1252542227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem is, I had to look at the keyboard to do left command + arrow key < 1252542229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, chording with one hand is unergonomic < 1252542231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know < 1252542235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: faster, though < 1252542241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1252542244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way I learnt to type < 1252542250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak is optimized to only hit one key with one hand at a time < 1252542253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I want to press control-P < 1252542266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then neither of my hands can reach, say, y or u without moving, if I use both hands for it < 1252542284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comedy option: they use their trackpad's scrolling ability < 1252542295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's possibly not a bad idea < 1252542313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has a nonfunctioning trackpad, with the result that I can't use anyone else's without moving the mouse all over the place by mistake < 1252542318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm used to resting my hands on it < 1252542322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a common problem < 1252542329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the nipple mouse is generally superior < 1252542338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but even worse for me because I have little motivation to fix it < 1252542339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, er < 1252542342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the trackpad in the middle or to the left? < 1252542346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle < 1252542349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost < 1252542356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you have really bad typing posture < 1252542357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly left-of-centre, but only by a centimetre or so < 1252542370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my hands don't stay constant as I type < 1252542374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor mine < 1252542380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, they never curve into the middle < 1252542380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they move into position for the next few letters < 1252542400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I rest my left hand on home row, the base of my left thumb is on the middle of the trackpad < 1252542405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't curving into the middle at all < 1252542409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1252542415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have very small hands < 1252542432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just an awkwardly-placed trackpad, I think < 1252542442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you expect my hands to end up? < 1252542447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, < 1252542449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they seek so far < 1252542459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine do the same thing and yet my arms barely move < 1252542464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is on a full-sized desktop keyboard < 1252542469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seek far; my arms don't move, my wrists hardly do < 1252542471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, ignoring the non-main blocks of keys) < 1252542475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly the palm of the hand that moves < 1252542488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's enough to knock the touchpad, which my thumb is leaning on at the time < 1252542490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... moving that without your wrist sounds like you're begging for problems < 1252542497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your thumb < 1252542501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252542504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mental picture keeps getting more and more awkward < 1252542524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to press the spacebar anywhere sane, the base of the thumb basically has to be on the touchpad < 1252542529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the left hand, at least < 1252542547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of keyboards, I learned that I can type QWERTY in my head, but cannot recall the QWERTY layout. < 1252542568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I could do this by typing e.g. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and noting which positions I go to. < 1252542571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same, more or less < 1252542579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end, type a different lipogram to check that I have it all right. < 1252542584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I can recall most of the letters on Qwerty < 1252542593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punctuation marks, though, I'd have to mentally type < 1252542608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard < 1252542616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwertyuiopasdf and then I stop. Well, hjkl is obvious too, and I know there's some assortment of z, x, c and v on the bottom row, but couldn't be sure about the positions. < 1252542619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to press a key at random, see what comes up, deduce where my hand is as a result < 1252542622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl; < 1252542625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zxcvbnm < 1252542630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, I'm cheating < 1252542633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd have to type out g, z, x, c, v, b, n and m < 1252542646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, you need to see the keyboard to type? < 1252542650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252542655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:30] it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard < 1252542657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to see the keyboard to place my hands < 1252542659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1252542665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or feel around for the dedents on f and j < 1252542666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's slower < 1252542672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I shift off by one, but I just pick up my hands and put them back. < 1252542677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those dedents are stupid < 1252542683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just annoying for a non-touch typist < 1252542689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Dvorak users, etc < 1252542693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252542696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-home row typist < 1252542716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's good to dedent something to help blind people find the keyboard < 1252542856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about blind dvorak typists? < 1252542868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have dedents too, I imagine < 1252542876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't matter which keys, as long as it's known and consistent < 1252542881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252542886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind people aren't stupid < 1252542888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ones nearer the middle would help in finding the dedents in the first place < 1252542891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can feel the edges of the keyboard < 1252542906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but that takes time < 1252542917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they wouldn't be using the mouse as much as you advocate, though < 1252542919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if at all < 1252542934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked, shocked, that blind people might have to have a different UI < 1252542937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch-clicking (i.e. without being able to see the mouse pointer) would be almost impossilbe < 1252542939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby renounce all pointing devices < 1252542948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry, I didn't mean it like that < 1252542953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252542954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252542956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just joking < 1252542971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: out of interest, have you ever used a screen reader? < 1252543002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, most of the talk about web accessibility is, while a good principle, not all that useful in practice: first, because screen readers use IE and mess with the result and are Smart (you don't seriously think they're confused by layout tables?), secondly, because blind people have gotten used to all the quirks they hear < 1252543008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, actually < 1252543010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to < 1252543029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but all the good ones, e.g. JAWS, cost rather unreasonable amounts of mone < 1252543031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1252543063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many blind programmers use emacspeak < 1252543064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree with web accessibility, but not mainly for the reasons you express < 1252543065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bunch < 1252543079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it's easier to process the data, which means that it's more likely to be forward compatible < 1252543082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: google is also smart - but really, web accessibility comes automatically from good structure < 1252543087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252543099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. some websites assume a particular screen resolution < 1252543104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we both know that's an incredibly bad idea < 1252543118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, because it doesn't work at all on things that have screens of different shapes < 1252543126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, loads of other reasons too < 1252543128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes (with the caveat that I'm not going to bother making it look perfect on 800x600 screens) < 1252543137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252543156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: incidentally, what do you think about the "site provides structure, user provides stylesheet" paradigm? < 1252543159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has no chance of taking off now < 1252543166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say it was dominant, rather than what we have atm < 1252543176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you say that it would be better or worse than what we have at present? < 1252543195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users should have the option of tweaking style, but having it solely down to the user misses the fact that presentation is a fundamental part of information (see e.g. Tufte) < 1252543224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so presentation is actually quite vital to information < 1252543234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say worse < 1252543319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it's all a crapshoot :P < 1252543354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will always optimize for having things be exactly as they want now without consideration for the future as long as our general intellectual characteristics stay the same < 1252543359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how the web turned out was really inevitable < 1252543370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, agreed on that, I think < 1252543376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although consideration for the future is how I want thinks now < 1252543380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been bitten too much... < 1252543381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1252543449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day when we can tweak our cognitive structures without destroying our memories or the rest of our personality is the day that shit stops... so, not in our natural lifetimes, that's for sure < 1252543454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, not for sure, probable < 1252543473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming no singularity-type event) < 1252543484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people won't want their own cognitive structures tweaked < 1252543517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly would. < 1252543532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, there's a chicken-and-egg problem < 1252543550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, by definition you wouldn't want your own desires changed? < 1252543566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I desire to be more rational and less emotional in my decision making, but I'm not. < 1252543582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about people who want to be smarter? < 1252543586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly want to be smarter, but I'm not < 1252543613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that a rationality tweak would do that < 1252543619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were two separate things < 1252543622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "The Caves of Steel" by Asimov? < 1252543637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas no; summarise? < 1252543649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a robot joins the police force in a nearish-future Earth < 1252543655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a strong-AI robot, that is < 1252543677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FWIW, Asimov thought the Three Laws were pretty good, so his competency regarding AI is questionable) < 1252543683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1252543696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting to see what happened, at least; although I suspect in RL it might turn out rather differently < 1252543713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think he saw the Laws as a safety valve that made robots suboptimal but was the only way they'd be accepted < 1252543714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, go on < 1252543717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than something to make them better < 1252543722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's not the issue < 1252543728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that robots can still do evil with the Three Laws < 1252543733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not sufficient for Friendliness(TM) < 1252543742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the robot jumped to all sorts of conclusions that the human didn't < 1252543756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... any justification for that happening < 1252543758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252543761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the human jumped to other conclusionss as a result of the robot's actions < 1252543765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were, more or less < 1252543780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, the culprit turned out to be their boss < 1252543792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot wouldn't believe that, so instead spent his time looking for spy beams, etc < 1252543815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any justification for the robot's behavior, I think that argument is monumentally weak... < 1252543826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the form "robots would do this, QED" < 1252543827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was justification, but I don't think it was massively strong < 1252543832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made for a good story, at least < 1252543861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the robot was too eager to assume that other people acted rationally, was the main assumption < 1252543867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like most people, I was initially confused by EMI’s decision to release remastered versions of all 13 albums by the Liverpool pop group Beatles, a 1960s band so obscure that their music is not even available on iTunes." --A.V. Club < 1252543878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's a rather obvious flaw in the robot's programming, then! < 1252543885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252543899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, the conclusion was that the programming wasn't terribly good for the purpose < 1252543917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical that such an AI could even be of human intelligence < 1252543922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there was quite a lot of robots doing evil in the sequel < 1252543934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it could not comprehend the concept of mind-of-a-different-type-than-mine < 1252543945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think it didn't < 1252543950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it accepted statements to the fact < 1252543956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it made incorrect assumptions otherwise < 1252543995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... internet, you're back up, so don't go all unusably slow on me < 1252544200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think my DNS is out < 1252544298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work numerically? < 1252544309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, gimme some numerics. < 1252544323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100 < 1252544326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of Google's < 1252544336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works perfectly < 1252544357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207.7.108.149 is Esolang < 1252544367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's opendns.net < 1252544381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66.116.109.44 < 1252544390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"64 bytes from mdnh-parking-adult-109.las.marchex.com (66.116.109.44): icmp_seq=1 ttl=236 time=185 ms" < 1252544396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, okay, .com < 1252544397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the site you mean, though < 1252544408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208.67.219.99 < 1252544451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh, DNS just came back up < 1252544459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only partly < 1252544494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems like the Windows remote bluescreen bug has been fixed in Windows 7 RTM (although it is in Windows 7 RC) < 1252544502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea: send someone a packet, their computer bluescreens < 1252544521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, we discussed that before < 1252544523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember? < 1252544527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1252544531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really expect me to remember? < 1252544531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies 'n gents, it seems opendns didn't help < 1252544537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: earlier today, dude < 1252544539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in 9 channels at once < 1252544548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least two of which are actually active (not counting this one) < 1252544559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's why AnMaster never seems to have backlog! < 1252544563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously linear < 1252544568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with his >500 channels... < 1252544592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps AnMaster would be best served by a client that joins every single channel on a server, but only shows ones you choose at a given moment...) < 1252544607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he actually reads all of them at the same time... < 1252544629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think it's rather suspicious that a serious bug turns up in older versions but not the newest, around upgrade time < 1252544648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? there's a reason it's a release candidate < 1252544653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they said "don't use it on your main machine" < 1252544658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I knoe < 1252544659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1252544660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "don't use it unless you're a technical user" < 1252544663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bug's in Vista too < 1252544668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which certainly didn't have those disclaimers < 1252544679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... let's get this straight < 1252544684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, most people who upgraded to Vista will probably upgrade to 7 < 1252544684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft left a bluescreen in vista to... < 1252544692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them even more known as the crashy OS? < 1252544703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reveal it when windows 7 came out as an upgrade persuader < 1252544706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense for microsoft to leave such a bug in windows an update ahead of time < 1252544716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on < 1252544719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some places, Microsoft are running adverts trying to persuade people XP is insecure < 1252544726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sorry, I just feel like conspiracy-theorizing < 1252544730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what's come over me < 1252544734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as tenuous as "the govt did 9/11 because glob boog duba" < 1252544764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it can be trivially disproved, which is a stupid thing for a conspiracy theory < 1252544768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if microsoft release a patch to vista < 1252544776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they obviously will ASAP < 1252544780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can conspiratorise around that if I need to < 1252544784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be very convincing < 1252544792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll probably be as convincing as a typical conspiracy theory < 1252544927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doop dop < 1252544982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping, do I have a connection? < 1252544988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1252544989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probaby < 1252544991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably < 1252545053 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252545283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, how come this is so slow? < 1252545291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble < 1252545293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being packet-shaped? < 1252545293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange suc < 1252545294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1252545297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1252545301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just down before < 1252545306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's going at something like 1B/hr < 1252545321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, 1B/2min < 1252545326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at this google page < 1252545442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you set up a TCP/IP over IRC bridge? this socket still works :P < 1252545451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1252545457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww < 1252545488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur pages still load... < 1252545516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1B/2min? Aren't bulk transfers done using packets of about 1500 bytes? < 1252545662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, you. < 1252545664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow. < 1252545677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This google page is just the header and one ad, and its been loading for about 15 minutes. < 1252545797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, WTF? < 1252545800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Okay < 1252545805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mainly Wikipedia and Google. < 1252546272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something in them is on Clearfeed? < 1252546372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, don't be silly. < 1252546377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP just sucks shit. < 1252546391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was down just an hour or so prior. < 1252546868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1252546876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it would *consistently* suck. < 1252547378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone come up with something better than Cygwin yet, or will I have to take the plunge? < 1252547388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP exists, but it's worse < 1252547457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I very much get the impression DJGPP is old and DOS oriented < 1252547464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1252547477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's entirely usable as a command-line unixy system, despite that < 1252547503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it emulate the POSIX API like Wine does for Windows? < 1252547506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what cygwin does, and it sucks < 1252547511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it produce native binaries < 1252547520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., is it like a mini-kernel in userspace < 1252547521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits of it that emulate easily; but it's native binaries it produces < 1252547526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just implement POSIX with Windows directly < 1252547533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't implement things like fork() that can't be done easily in DOS < 1252547535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc; you can't compile straight bash with djgpp for obvious reasons < 1252547539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it unacceptable < 1252547551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's emacs for djgpp < 1252547560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it < 1252547568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? Azstal? < 1252547574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fork() natively) < 1252547648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my measuring stick is basically "does drive:\foo as a path work without it mapping it itself" < 1252547659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does, it's not emulating a unix FS, which is good < 1252547671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpp translates c:\autoexec.bat to /dev/c/autoexec.bat internally < 1252547679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, and that's wrong < 1252547686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shouldn't be a special path system as opposed to windows < 1252547688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because: < 1252547705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's the distinction between "these tools, that normally run on unix systems, and use the POSIX API, can run on Windows, because we've implemented the POSIX API" (good) < 1252547707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1252547722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unix lackeys! have no fear, we've hacked up a library which creates a faux unix environment on top of windows!" < 1252547784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin is definitely the latter < 1252547786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw the former < 1252547790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mingw has no fork() < 1252547812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw tries to compile POSIX source into definitely Windows binaries < 1252547818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, mingw + implementation of fork() using that undocumented syscall + coreutils, bash, etc. = perfect < 1252547821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1252547829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what undocumented syscall? < 1252547841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it < 1252547843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] Deewiant? Azstal? < 1252547845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] (fork() natively) < 1252547851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and find it in my history < 1252547876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ZwCreateProcess[Ex] < 1252547890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's how cygwin does fork, ...maybe < 1252547896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought it would be called something like Bear114 < 1252547903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd try and cite that but my interwebs only likes about 3 sites < 1252547904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the undocumented syscalls are < 1252547909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, not syscall per se < 1252547912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bear? < 1252547919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that intentionally, like, roaring wood-shitting thing < 1252547927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more like teddy bear < 1252547931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it Boolean Excess Accumulator Register or something < 1252547932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252547948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the social engineering virus which went around several years ago, telling people to delete a particular critical system file because it was a virus? < 1252547955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. < 1252547962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear thing < 1252547963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1252547970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same bear, apparently < 1252547979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is it just me or is \WINDOWS really unorganized? < 1252547992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the icons are fun, though :) < 1252548000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which version of Windows are you thinking of? < 1252548008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they reorganised it somewhat for Vista < 1252548008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm on xp atm < 1252548016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot saner in terms of command-line use < 1252548017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has wallpapers in the root, for instance < 1252548045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try Windows 7 sometime. < 1252548057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it forces cleartype < 1252548061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some fonts < 1252548062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: c:\windows\ was the standard place to save documents in windows 3.1 < 1252548068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe it or not < 1252548070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, because it was like unix /? < 1252548074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is for dos stuff? < 1252548076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, all the programs had it as their default path < 1252548086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was simpler than that, the programs were all installed there < 1252548087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, c:\windows\ is all your windows files, just like c:\programming\ < 1252548093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it defaulted to current directory being the same as the executable < 1252548096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1252548103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs used current dir as default save path < 1252548106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is history < 1252548132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else here ever used Windows Me as their main OS? I did for years < 1252548144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really is as terrible as they say. < 1252548146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used ME < 1252548155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Me < 1252548159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an acronym, but it's Me < 1252548173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1252548175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252548200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, my dad at least used to have a once-a-monster Pentium 4 really-tall workstation tower thingy, which he did audio editing on using some old version of Pro Tools (so quite a heavy workload), and it had Me and never crashed < 1252548206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably just very flaky drivers < 1252548213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :included by default < 1252548255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap (FTH) is a subsystem of Windows 7 responsible for monitoring application crashes and autonomously applying mitigations to prevent future crashes on a per application basis. For the vast majority of users, FTH will function with no need for intervention or change on their part." < 1252548260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that scares me < 1252548276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it mean that it attempts to figure out what the application meant to do in the case of things like null pointer dereference? < 1252548280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's microsoft planning for a false flag military operation, cooperating with the reptilian NWO < 1252548285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably not. < 1252548300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap is another example of the low level efficiency built into the system: FTH automatically corrects memory faults that cause applications to crash which has the pleasant side effect of preventing future crashes. How does FTH work, exactly? What types of memory problems does it address, specifically? How do developers monitor FTH events and can they override FTH's behavior? What does this all mean to < 1252548302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average user? " < 1252548311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm scared < 1252548322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more annoyingly, the article doesn't actually answer that question < 1252548323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, who uses Windows because of its internals? < 1252548331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just says "You will continue to learn about recoverability in Windows over the coming months here on C9." < 1252548340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252548373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's a video, which i haven't seen < 1252548374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a program on my computer that was supposed to prevent crashes somehow < 1252548391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the people who brought you SoftRam! < 1252548394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a long time ago, and I remember little about it < 1252548407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two mp4 downloads, one marked "iPod", one marked "PSP" < 1252548471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: resolution, etc < 1252548483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1252548598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome sure does use quite a lot of memory < 1252548710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why microsoft haven't tried to make cleartype not suck < 1252548715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all blind? < 1252548752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they actually like the look, is my guess < 1252548769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically impossible, ClearType is like the worst imaginable implementation of subpixel antialiasing < 1252548870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1252548872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unbearable < 1252548879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers leeching neighbour's wifi < 1252548885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for WEP networks... < 1252548907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, only a WPA2 and I don't think I have the password to that one written down in any convenient place. < 1252549007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely imagines taking a lotus coated surface and some silver-food-coloring treated water to school < 1252549213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You may want to see a therapist. < 1252549243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually do it < 1252549322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a therapist for thoughts, Sgeo. You know. They call them "therapists". < 1252549344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with thoughts, unless they're suicidal < 1252549372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I was seriously thinking about doing something reckless or authorities would assume is dangerous < 1252549384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you being purposefully stupid? I need to determine the best tone of facepalm to use. < 1252549558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cygwin.com isn't loading. < 1252549569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1252549578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the opendns nameserver IPs? < 1252549585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not off by heart < 1252549628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252549633 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-018.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252549990 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.139.31.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252550173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a dramatic reversal of long-term IPv6 stagnation, global IPv6 traffic globally grew more than 1,400% in the last 12 months. Even more remarkable, this growth is due primarily to one application and one ISP." < 1252550182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an awful lot. < 1252550210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What application? < 1252550233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uTorrent. The ISP is Hurricane Electric (not a consumer ISP). < 1252550236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/09/who-put-the-ipv6-in-my-internet/ < 1252550376 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252550667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252550739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAR < 1252550743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone fix my interwebs. :| < 1252550779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, apparently OpenBSD releases don't even come signed or anything < 1252550793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's secure ... if you trust theo absolutely. < 1252551449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's google's ip? I don't THINK this is dns, but... < 1252551561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100 < 1252551678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1252551680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads really quickly < 1252551734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached? < 1252551765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252551773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried a search. < 1252551788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it's probably just that IP < 1252551795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., my DNS is resolving to another one that I can't reach < 1252551807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happens on every page, and they load; just slowly < 1252552700 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252554500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252554755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1252555412 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems the issue is with google.co.uk < 1252556220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1252556224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... or not < 1252556678 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556743 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D< < 1252556760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252556765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I interpret that smiley? < 1252556766 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252556772 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very carefully? ;-) < 1252556772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252556781 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1252556806 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to beam their properly working wifi to the uk? < 1252556851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, nobody's invented one yet ;-)) < 1252556852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great. thank < 1252556853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1252556857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ns/s/ < 1252556867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what, working wifi? < 1252556889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION surely doesn't have it, Broadc... (dies before speaking the name of the unspeakable one) < 1252556958 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252556965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was whoising to find the country < 1252556969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I should have guessed from "Broadcom" < 1252557143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleargh < 1252557149 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm? < 1252557164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying having an internet connection that only works on some IPs, you see < 1252557166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, "bleargh" < 1252557180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble... need to ditch Orange... < 1252557286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad ISP, incidentally. < 1252557335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the support consists in its entirety of people who can't speak english reading lines of such stunning insight as "have you tried resetting all the router settings?" (in more dumbed-down words, naturally) from a book < 1252557363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all ISPs behave the same? < 1252557368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big ones, yes < 1252557383 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask, what country are you in again? UK? < 1252557387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the connection you're paid to give us is down" "um we'll send an engineer in 74 days" (It goes on 24 hours later) (73 days pass) "well we checked it and it is okay." < 1252557394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah < 1252557412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switching to http://bogons.net/ is the plan... < 1252557417 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard today that wireless routers can cause headaches < 1252557429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, problems, or literal headaches? < 1252557433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the latter, that's FUD < 1252557433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal < 1252557440 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ya never know < 1252557443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WiFi is absolutely harmless, and many more things operate on the same band and more powerful than WiFi < 1252557449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on figurative headaches, I can agree!! < 1252557457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if WiFi is bad for you, radio has already killed us in a nuclear holocaust < 1252557522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on who you ask < 1252557551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask crackpots, you can learn very interesting things about the world < 1252557555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately they're all false < 1252557584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ironically enough all the geniuses are often considered crackpots < 1252557609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Bogons seem good; they do IPv6, they have no transfer limit, they don't cap the raw ADSL stream, they're explicitly targeted at the tech-savvy, and it appears to consist of just two people (or at least, mainly); one of whom worked at the BBC in the early days of the internet and originally registered bbc.co.uk; a quick google search turned up a usenet posting by him linking to some... < 1252557611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...information about ISPs that have Phorm (evil deep-packet-inspection based advertising thing) or something similar to that, anyway, in a thread critical of it. < 1252557629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's still the UK, so we're talking the third-world 8mbit speed (only 6mbit at this exchange) < 1252557640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: they laughed at newton. they also laughed at bozo the clown < 1252557681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both studies and basic logic about the frequencies that have existed before WiFi show that it has no harmful effects < 1252557696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I thought the Republicans had run out of shameful things to do: Republican Representative yells at the President mid-sentence in mid-sentence, stating "YOU LIE!" < 1252557710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news at 6: coffee is bad for you; news at 10: coffee is good for you < 1252557713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You lie. With your mouth! Lies. Come out of it." < 1252557732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yep; scientific studies, the mainstream news channels. < 1252557734 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean tonight?? < 1252557734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference? < 1252557747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes. < 1252557752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "at this President mid-sentence in mid-sentence" < 1252557759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: XD < 1252557761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The President is pioneering Xzibit sentence technology. < 1252557773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear he hired some Russian immigrants to do it. < 1252557783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at the President, not this < 1252557828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't watch the boring speech < 1252557893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it boring (note: I didn't either, for rather obvious reasons) < 1252557901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It mostly consisted of "What the Republicans say has less factual basis than claiming the Earth is flat." < 1252557923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics is crazy in America, and I'm not exactly savvy or interested, so ... < 1252558008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American politics: Would you like right-wing insanity, or right-wing insanity with a little more fascism and crazy "moral "platforms? < 1252558013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"moral" platforms < 1252558024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hey, after all, The Other Party(tm) might win. < 1252558038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US. I'm kinda forced to care. < 1252558060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd prefer an honest-to-god progressive. < 1252558080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, you can stop caring now, I'll spoil the long-term for you: it keeps drifting to the right and nothing ever gets done < 1252558095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for acts of war. < 1252558103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said long-term. < 1252558105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And threatening to unleash the very fires of hell on someone. < 1252558119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that called christianity :P < 1252558127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the rest of the world has that too < 1252558161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to nukes. < 1252558168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to joking :| < 1252558184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't. A large number of Republicans wanted us to nuke Iraq... < 1252558186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already saw that coming from far away < 1252558199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, nuking Iraq? < 1252558201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US too, but it's still mind-bogglingly annoying < 1252558206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, your other references < 1252558219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural? I'm not sure what you're referring to :P < 1252558252 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter < 1252558272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252558289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for making me immortal, my desperate urge to find out what you're referring to will keep me from resting in peace < 1252558291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252558406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what made the Republicans think that #esoteric would be any good at nuking Iraq? < 1252558435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: us as in "the US". < 1252558444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just confused Obama ain't exactly pulled everyone out of overseas wars < 1252558447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 almost certainly knew that and decided to make a "joke" based on it < 1252558459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you mean politicians aren't honest? < 1252558460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked < 1252558493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's some kind of twisted loyalty, pretending that somehow Afghanistan is so moral and acceptable and Iraq is some gaping "blood for oil" war < 1252558507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a huge difference < 1252558519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides the obvious) < 1252558619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just weird, that's all, "blah blah blah, war bad, Iraq bad, blah blah blah, we want out, blah blah blah (sends 30,000 more to Afghanistan) blah blah blah" ... huh??? < 1252558639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... politicians... aren't consistent? < 1252558641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1252558645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked < 1252558648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1252558649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"our troops are dying for oil, blah blah blah, war bad (people keep signing up, everybody "supports" our troops) blah blah blah" < 1252558652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing < 1252558653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter < 1252558655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after < 1252558657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every < 1252558658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word < 1252558676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's. another. meme. that's. quite. popular. that. isn't. so. annoying. < 1252558678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. " < 1252558683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best. game. ever." < 1252558695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but annoyingness is a virtue! < 1252558698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingosity. < 1252558759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you use a trackball? < 1252558791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be surprised if yes < 1252558806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marble Madness, ftw! ;-) < 1252558809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any context to that? But no, I've never used one. I'd like to, but my gut feeling is that my thumb/fingers would be uncomfortable. Also, it has the same release-reposition problem for continued movement as a mouse. < 1252558818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1252558827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried one out for the first time today, and it's awesome :) < 1252558833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1252558836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big ball you drag your hand across < 1252558844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind? < 1252558853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ball in the middle, ball on your thumb, ball on your fingers (buttons to side)? < 1252558858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball on your thumb < 1252558866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's awkward? < 1252558867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the release-reposition < 1252558870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, my hand is small, sure, but... < 1252558875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb-ball trackballs are my favourite shape for them < 1252558880 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the release-reposition problem isn't that big, since it's only one motion < 1252558888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's akward for all of 20 seconds < 1252558891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move quickly, you generally leave the ball free-spinning as you move back < 1252558896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it harder to position exactly? I mean, these are just my impressions. < 1252558897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and precise movement's pretty easy too < 1252558902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1252558905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to position exactly, and to move quickly < 1252558908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're different motions < 1252558909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just buy a trackball, then. < 1252558912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to do anything in between < 1252558914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were I getting a desktop computer, I'd definitely get one < 1252558918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: superior or inferior to the nub? < 1252558929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even optical trackballs seem to get dirty really often < 1252558938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: optical trackball? < 1252558940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think I was using it long enough to decide < 1252558941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is, it sounds silly. < 1252558949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where a laser detects movement rather than rollers < 1252558952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that uses optics to sense the ball itself, rather than rollers < 1252558961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a laser usually < 1252558963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be! < 1252558978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pointless. < 1252559020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you know what model it was? < 1252559032 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no clue, though I could find out easily < 1252559053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've just noticed that my motor movement in my thumb is worse by far than my fingers < 1252559069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers are faster, more accurate and easier to move < 1252559077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's why a thumb trackball seems really awkward < 1252559100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, a trackball has the same context switch problem as a mouse < 1252559147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1252559164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's hard to get too excited about, unless I was doing image editing < 1252559250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity, do you use vimperator? < 1252559274 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw someone using it today also; that was interesting < 1252559275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252559292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think vim/emacs are really better than current UIs < 1252559318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimperator? is that a Firefox add-on? < 1252559319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both suck a lot, and the more WIMPy UIs are more immediately discoverable than vimmy/emacsy ones, so I tend towards the former < 1252559326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes. < 1252559357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, see, that's the thing < 1252559368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's keyboard browsing < 1252559372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, tbh, very attractive < 1252559379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well aware of what it is. < 1252559382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand by what I said. < 1252559398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some combination you press and it highlights every link with a number; you type in the number and you visit it < 1252559412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, you can either choose an erroneously spatial interface or an undiscoverable, inscrutable keyboard interface. < 1252559428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is more common and discoverable, so I use them. Both suck. < 1252559464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know you have tried Emacs recently, and the mouse support isn't exactly lacking < 1252559473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not tried it recently. I know emacs. < 1252559479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it because there wasn't really any other option. < 1252559499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you think I want a mouse-oriented WIMP interface, you're very mistaken. < 1252559533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't understand what you prefer then < 1252559588 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hate both keyboard and mouse and still like computers < 1252559596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not say keyboard vs mouse. < 1252559603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't perfect (by far) but are all we have < 1252559646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's understandable, considering it basically doesn't exist at the moment. But WIMP-style UIs are erroneously spatial, and vim/emacs-style UIs are not discoverable by the same mechanism as which they are used; take a WIMP toolbar: you see the options, and can click them: the way you discover them is the way you operate them: by spatial elements. Plus, they often sacrifice clarity for the... < 1252559648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sake of saving one or two keystrokes. < 1252559674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet found a perfect solution, but there are ideas in my head I'm toying with. < 1252559730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a tradeoff you can't avoid < 1252559737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1252559746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIMP UIs aren't discoverable because they're spatial. < 1252559756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're discoverable and operable spatially, sure. < 1252559775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just as you can have a UI operable by means other than spatial, you can have a UI discoverable by other means too. < 1252559853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erroneously spatial explained roughly: In a spatial UI, there's a distance between two buttons, say; there are two choices and neither has more "difficulty" or inherent distance, but one of them is further away from your pointer: the act of mousing to one or the other is inherently unnecessary work, just as a 3D UI is bad because you have to continually move around things to find them. < 1252559994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused < 1252560095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably helps to have these thoughts occupy your mind for at least a month if you want to unerstand that. < 1252560113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*understand, rather; I am truly a terrible typer on this keyboard. < 1252560119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, ChatZilla. Typer is a word. < 1252560134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it accepts "typist" though < 1252560286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fyes, proxably. Bet typist us tou mlch af u rel wurd fouowr mii tou grayc yt wtx usagez. < 1252560303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's ridiculously hard to read. < 1252560550 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252561338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, the numbered links are near-useless < 1252561359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it takes as much time to look at it, recognize the number, and type it as it does to mouse to it and click it < 1252561379 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love numbered links! < 1252561382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it means you aren't going to a mouse! < 1252561452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yet it saves you no time at all. also, with a nub mouse, there's no mouse context switch time < 1252561455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mousing is faster < 1252561470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clarification: the numbered links are actually a-z0-9) < 1252561477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252561488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(iirc), maybe < 1252561571 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? < 1252561572 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1252561621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: leave < 1252561624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252561649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Infinite motion without repositioning, bitch. No wrist strain, bitch. < 1252561653 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wry? < 1252561670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1252561688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, zero context switch time is hugely important < 1252561698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it means the damn thing actually gets used < 1252561705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird completely missed the double entendre :( < 1252561716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess e's a tad young < 1252561739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pretty good double entendre < 1252561742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a pastebin for that < 1252561745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, qdb < 1252561757 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1252561761 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even notice that < 1252561776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the yikes for? < 1252561785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm a bit tired, actually < 1252561816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i generally don't look out for innuendo for whatever reason < 1252561828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just young < 1252561855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no. < 1252561886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you? < 1252561943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14, but seriously, I just don't look for innuendo most of the time < 1252561954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an old man at heart, and that's all that counts ;-) < 1252561954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, google loaded fast < 1252561955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. You're young. Trust me on this. < 1252561957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my plight over? < 1252561968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: did you know that if you state something over and over, it makes it true? < 1252561983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just young for using a playground tactic :) < 1252562019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, but the catch is that you're too young to realize it's true < 1252562043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this _is_ an elaborate joke, right? otherwise you're just being incredibly stupid < 1252562064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought it was already established that everyone in this channel is quite young < 1252562078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, gramps < 1252562080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh snap < 1252562101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes ehird play with his old Apple IIc for punishment ... < 1252562114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now come on, that's a terrible innuendo < 1252562121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make any sense < 1252562223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be back in 2 or 3 years < 1252562247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: umm... bye? < 1252562254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather anticlimatic exit < 1252562270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. < 1252562343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correlating that with anything said recently either that's a really crappy joke or isn't even intended to be a joke at all. < 1252562353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1252562456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it'll just remain an elusive mystery for all time then < 1252562487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a few years < 1252562629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the joke "ha ha, in 2-3 years you will understand the amazing amazingosity of innuendo?" because that's not, you know, a joke, unless you mean the xkcd-style jokes which are perfect jokes except for their lack of humour < 1252562688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252562705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is largely that you don't get the joke < 1252562733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., there is no joke, i.e., it isn't the former, it's the latter < 1252562767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a joke. However, it's on you, and, what's more, you don't get it. < 1252562776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it all the funnier < 1252562802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope my mild bemusement is worth whatever effort it took to cook it up. < 1252562926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252563137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the only joke I could think of is "I'll be back in 2 or 3 years [when you finally understand this joke]" < 1252563146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which popped to mind almost immediately after reading it, but I dismissed it as too crap. < 1252563173 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I won't answer that, because no matter what I say, you'll take the answer the wrong way < 1252563243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not answering is another form of answer that can be wrongly taken in exactly the same way, so that makes no sense :) < 1252563280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252563317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonetheless, if I answer honestly, you'll probably get angry at me because you don't understand it < 1252563362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. < 1252563452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, I presume, is Yet Another Joke oh the veritable rivers of laughter < 1252563474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252563516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, some things can only be learned, not taught < 1252563532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, I'm not going to elaborate on what those things are) < 1252563543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, master of zen and vague bullshit < 1252563549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1252563564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252563577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was fun, whereby fun I mean tiring < 1252563600 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252563684 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252564222 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252564448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. < 1252564469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, could you invite ehird's mirror twin here? should be interesting. < 1252564486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure such an entity could be described as ehird < 1252564522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghird naturally, g for good rather than evil < 1252564541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of good i guess < 1252564613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he shouldn't stay too long. he would probably be destined for a horrible fate: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth < 1252564676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clicked it but my half-working internet connection doesn't work on that particular IP < 1252564679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever internet connection! < 1252564694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would work if i waited a few years... < 1252564696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE COPPRO < 1252564726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled again < 1252564743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: out of curiosity, do you get his joke? < 1252564777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant to say: we do have a qdb, ais523 < 1252564783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point < 1252564784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone add it? < 1252564806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i didn't find the actual joke yet < 1252564814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "I'll be back in 2 to 3 years" < 1252564820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with different grammar, I don't recall < 1252564846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees nothing wrong with that sentence's grammar < 1252564846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? < 1252564849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be warned that if you don't get it, we'll hear from coppro that you're just too young. too young. < 1252564853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1252564857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one before < 1252564862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's another? < 1252564863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro made that one after < 1252564873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] * coppro will be back in 2 or 3 years < 1252564875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] coppro: umm... bye? < 1252564876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] that's a rather anticlimatic exit < 1252564878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. < 1252564911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(continue similar "too young!" and "it's funny because you're not sure what I mean" for about half an hour) < 1252564918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well i should be too young, since i aspire to be filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day. unfortunately the universe fails to oblige. < 1252564936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not forgetting to brush my teeth, mind you < 1252564990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only toothpaste is overpowering bubblegum flavor and has sugar in it. < 1252565007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the water is Ribena < 1252565076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what i aspire to. you are confusing it with this world's ersatzes. < 1252565117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am merely describing the world in which ehird-the-innocent-14-year-old-oblivious-to-genitalia-and-all-that-entails exists < 1252565122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't shoot the messenger < 1252565126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252565279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you sure your Internet troubles are the ISP and not the wireless? < 1252565300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it was immediately preceded by my router's connection page showing invalid authentication/ppp failed/etc, yes. < 1252565306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not on WiFi. < 1252565321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the ethernet cable is distorting my packets! < 1252565323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but you mentioned wanting a good wifi I thought < 1252565324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I need a gold-plated one. < 1252565339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because running an ethernet cable across continents turns out to be even less practical. < 1252565347 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS? < 1252565356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router console is a web page. < 1252565387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, do you have access to a different OS for test purposes? < 1252565393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1252565400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am 99% sure. < 1252565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interwebs went down, they came back not at all, then they came back mostly but with some IPs being skittish < 1252565416 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% sure of what? router's fault? ISP? < 1252565424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then google started working smoothly, then stopped again < 1252565426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ISP < 1252565433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brand router? < 1252565436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that I've had many bad experiences with this ISP < 1252565442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252565451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's an Orange Livebox. technically it's just "rented" < 1252565465 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be just some old firmware bug, who knows < 1252565471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252565491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the characteristics of dodgy routing by my ISP < 1252565499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252565841 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252566344 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh ... anyone ever taken a look at Befreak? < 1252566351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so. < 1252566353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once we move to 37signals Accounts we will be hashing passwords." < 1252566361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from the company that brought you Ruby on Rails... < 1252566550 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252566607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..." indeed. < 1252566795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1252566804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .tar.gz doesn't have BFC like they claim < 1252566812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no docs included either (apparently) < 1252566825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsl.com has a befreak page. < 1252566831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though obviously k-oriented < 1252566837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an implementation < 1252566864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k3 for windows to run it is available in nsl.com/misc or somewhere. < 1252567012 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252567038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K looks more confusing than Befreak!! < 1252567080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the Forth-ish stack ops ("over", "under") seem appealing < 1252567093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should buckle down and just learn enough Forth to write my own Befunge93 interpreter ;-) < 1252567232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is quite impenetrable at first but is learnable in about an hour. < 1252567257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, fully grasping the basic concept and knowledge about most of the operators) < 1252567278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's array based, like APL < 1252567279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backflip, what kind of stupid name is that? ;-) < 1252567301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I dunno ... < 1252567373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand the reason for inventing Backflip ... < 1252567395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it was an exercise in how computable those simple rules could be < 1252567406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output only as extension?? < 1252567412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a post on esoteric.sange.fi where someone was suggesting adding them to Befunge to provide function-call capability < 1252567419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarpits aren't meant to be useful < 1252567420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I/O has nothing really to do with how a language operates computationally < 1252567441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about theoretical properties, mathematical beauty and purity, etc < 1252567460 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just less fun when you can't do as much with it :-/ < 1252567558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: btw, how the living fuck are you meant to pronounce your name? < 1252567607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Unassignable needs more love < 1252567614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really fun and challenging to program in < 1252567637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried < 1252567639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gave up < 1252567641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252567666 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean my nickname as I haven't told you my real (pronounceable) name :-) < 1252567680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roo-JOO-loh < 1252567709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I'm pretty sure I don't know of any languages with silent Xs. < 1252567715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in (drum roll please) Esperanto, an artificial spoken language older than all of us combined (1887) < 1252567728 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be "g with circumflex" < 1252567732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1252567742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban in your face :) < 1252567773 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :─¥ < 1252567782 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that doesn't show up correctly for me < 1252567796 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruĝulo < 1252567799 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ;-) < 1252567805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto! < 1252567808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good ol' "esperanto-postfix" in Emacs, heh) < 1252567810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have recognised the notation < 1252567817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eo.wikipedia.org accepts it too < 1252567828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto is boring :| < 1252567833 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite common to use "gx" (although "gh" is more official) < 1252567835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my keyboard can type ĝ < 1252567854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine probably could too via Windows input crapola, but I'm too lazy to learn how < 1252567869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you really know / like lojban? < 1252567880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, speaking of esoteric languages ...) < 1252567881 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252567882 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252567883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Lojban, unfortunately I don't know it, although I started learning it before < 1252567888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope to be fluent in it one day < 1252567894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is Esperanto boring? < 1252567907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly like every other natural language, except human-constructed < 1252567939 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less wonky in the grammar bits (more rigid spelling and pronunciation), that should be a good thing < 1252568002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you wanna learn Lojban, you gotta get some reading material, which is probably a lot more scarce than E-o stuff < 1252568008 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck :-/ < 1252568019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there's a wonderful online book about it < 1252568053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making sentences about how I say that I say that my name is [Elliott Hird, except not perfectly because it isn't totally pronounceable in Lojban] in no time :P < 1252568080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably your name would be pronounced exactly as you say it normally < 1252568089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Lojban doesn't have the sounds for that < 1252568090 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign languages usually don't change that except for written purposes < 1252568101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban isn't the one talking, you are ;-) < 1252568104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban has a 1:1 written-said correspondence < 1252568121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you must transliterate your name to use it in a lojban sentence < 1252568125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop, no exceptions < 1252568136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there might be a funky quoting thing < 1252568142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd just be awkward < 1252568185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, I don't think Bill Clinton would call himself "Vilhelmo Klintono" just for linguistic sake < 1252568199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? it's how lojban works < 1252568211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply the language < 1252568229 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252568777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, 99-bottles-of-beer.net Befunge example is weird, seems to never end, even wraps (?) to negative numbers ... that can't be right, can it?? < 1252569599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252569600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252569807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252569851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work with cfunge. Well, the downloadable version, anyway. < 1252569954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inline version seems to have "\0\0" replaced with "{CODE}{CODE}", which is not very good; probably some sort of regexp backreference mishap. < 1252569980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why < 1252570001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tips on the site said change "{CODE}{CODE}" to "{}{}" which still didn't exactly work like I expected < 1252570053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite a silly tip. < 1252570083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make a better tip. < 1252570167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat head < 1252570533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; when I wrote {CODE} in the comment field, it got substituted with the (broken) program, while the \0s in the comment turned into {FORM_COMMENT}. Impressive. < 1252570550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately the captcha also didn't work without cookies, so that version didn't get sent. < 1252570743 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacky < 1252570750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, no big loss I guess < 1252570762 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. Found a very small (< 1k) Perl version of a Befunge interpreter < 1252570777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know mtve also wrote a small one too, but this one is more compact :-) < 1252570778 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol4_3/tpj0403-0017.html < 1252570982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly works although "?" may not (dunno) < 1252570997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tell if the comments are comments or code!! ;-) < 1252571133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the Javascript Befunge-93 at http://www.quirkster.com/js/befunge.html -- which I've used when in some unfriendly place without a Befunge interpreter handy -- makes # an infinite loop when executed from right to left. < 1252571166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does jump properly left-to-right; I guess it just adds a (1, 0) vector after the normal delta, instead of moving twice. < 1252571248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of interpreters obviously aren't very well tested < 1252571273 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of that is the fact that most examples are hard to come by (besides the "official" distribution) < 1252571282 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of up-to-date Befunge pages < 1252571301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, in fact it just initializes the '#' command handler as "dir", which is the current-movement-function variable, and obviously gets the initial value stuck in the table. < 1252571336 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been told that Bequnge also incorrectly handles # < 1252571393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page says it's been tested against the Befunge-93 portion of Mycology; I guess that only does jumps in one direction. < 1252571432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe you should add a # in some other direction, too; you're supposed to be thorough, aren't you? < 1252571505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there enough space? < 1252571520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252571604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, I can't find any links to "Betty" (although Wikipedia mentions it) < 1252571676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz had a rather nice jsbef (peculiarities: it reads a spec about the actual execution using a nifty simplified markup from a text field on the page, so you can do befunge variants trivially), but there's just the archive.org and local copies now. < 1252571691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should ask him about whether I could re-publish it somewhere. < 1252571775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js as in Javascript? < 1252571795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252571812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw a Silverlight one earlier today, didn't bother, even the author admitted it was buggy, and even he only tested on two samples < 1252571871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20060925160700/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/jsbef/index.html if you want to see the archived copy; I'm not sure it works after archive.org mangling, but the befunge command descriptions in the text field are nicely concise, especially given that those are what's executed. < 1252571881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should be at lunch now. < 1252572161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252572231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mycology's mycorand.bf is the only useful part for Befunge93? < 1252572823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology.b98 and mycouser.b98 both should work in a Befunge-93 interpreter, as long as it ignores the out-of-the-box (i.e. outside 80x25) text. < 1252572846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can cut the corresponding squares off them if not. < 1252572902 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks < 1252572945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what I remember hearing; it's not *my* test suite. < 1252573624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I'm supposed to assume that if something works one way it works the other way as well :-P < 1252573668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost conceivable that + fails if adding 42 and 2 but always otherwise returns the correct result... I can't test /everything/ < 1252573675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have such a disclaimer in the readme < 1252573710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there are a lot more integer-pairs than cardinal directions. Still, I do get the point. < 1252573730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not enough room to test all cardinal directions, I think < 1252573737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just sure that someone, somewhere, somehow has implemented [] so that they work in some directions but not all. < 1252573740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :West might still be fittable < 1252573756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] are tested using a noncardinal vector < 1252573764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should hopefully guarantee that the cardinals work. < 1252573775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's reasonable. < 1252573789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably used for all the cardinals before that anyway. < 1252573979 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252574039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mycology's Befunge-93 area does do a _,#! #:< for output at least once < 1252574088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when testing # over the edge, it goes west. < 1252574093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; maybe the page was lying, then. Or just used some ancient version. < 1252574108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# over the edge was there even in ancient versions < 1252574127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_,#! #:< might not have been < 1252574165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient version of the interpreter itself, then. < 1252574339 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252574355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252574359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are crazy < 1252574360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge < 1252574411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so crazy about that? < 1252574452 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a working code to me < 1252574478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's crazy is that it doesn't use the >:#,_ print-loop idiom even though it's going eastwards. < 1252574511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole site (Uncyclopedia) and its explanation of the "two cows" is crazy < 1252574513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not necessarily obvious unless you're experienced < 1252574522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the "COWBOL" and Visual Basic examples ;-) < 1252574534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even puts an explicit 0 instead of relying on empty stack popping < 1252574548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a joke ;-) < 1252574577 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not x86 assembly? < 1252574588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it assumes an OS by necessity < 1252574624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless it used libc, but I guess that's silly < 1252574633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//sillier/ < 1252574649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) < 1252574666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 and Game Boy assembly examples are funny. They don't exactly make much sense (both just set some sort of external value, GB one even referring to the undeclared num_cows) but the way they do it looks very realistic. < 1252574679 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got the idea at the glimpse < 1252574690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily imagine seeing a ";number of cows can only be modified during vblank" comment in a GB program. < 1252574738 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252574746 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just saw the Atari Jaguar page ... very funny < 1252574783 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect pic!! < 1252574811 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the python implementation much < 1252574839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jaguar was released in the US in 1992 to much fanfare, some trumpetfare and a good amount of bus fare." < 1252574847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the N64 "use 'sw ..., offset(reg)' even if it does do a signed offset, instead of loading the full 8015F15C value to a register, since it saves an instruction" is also pretty realistic. < 1252574965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To make matters worse, the only programming language that the Atari Jaguar supported was the Brainfuck language borrowed from the Amiga." < 1252575164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252575180 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252575289 0 :immibis_!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252575343 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252575349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those who are wondering (which is exactly none of you), the C64 basic entry "10 POKE 808,237" makes the STOP key stop working, so you can't interrupt the cow-printing. (Or at least it won't do what the key would normally do.) < 1252575351 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1252575452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops stop, eh? ironic ;-) < 1252575498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless the 237 is actually the correct value to point at, but I don't see why anyone should do that. Except maybe to make sure you *can* interrupt it properly, but that doesn't sound very likely.) < 1252575549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another gem from Uncyclopedia: < 1252575554 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because Esperanto is not compatible with Electronic devices, most Esperantists have gotten by using the letters h, x, ^, and 卐. So the sentence 'good morning' becomes 'hxx^卐h^ 卐xh^x'." < 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Father was a baboon's rump and your mother spent all her time backed up against the wall by sailors! < 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, laŭŝajne estas rano en mia bideo. < 1252575654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice Red Dwarf reference) < 1252575853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, it's late < 1252575856 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite all < 1252575858 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252577181 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download IceChat at www.icechat.net" < 1252579234 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxztxecskgvlsirx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252580057 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@83.197.102.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252580499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252580680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge <-- looking at the TI-BASIC further below makes me laugh < 1252580712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if skipping closing parenthesis is actually valid. brb going to test < 1252580727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it seems so < 1252580764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX Spectrum one amused me < 1252580805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1252580825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find needs some -exec that runs processes concurrently < 1252580846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am annoyed by the pointlessness of some parts of some of the entries; for example, the SQL one has a "LIMIT 2" completely arbitrarily; it's an aggregate function call, it will never return more than one row. < 1252580850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use xargs and & < 1252580864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even something crude like splitting in roughly two equal sized chunks would be useful < 1252580883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work? < 1252580920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey the dc one... < 1252580938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the xargs, even: find foo | while read -r x; do stuff x &; done < 1252580965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I would prefer to not start one process per file < 1252580972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are thousands of files to be processes < 1252580974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processed* < 1252580983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Linux, processes are cheap < 1252580994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not when those will do a lot of work at once < 1252581004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I wanted to use both cores, not get OOM < 1252581032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, if you're doing something expensive then that's probably not a good idea < 1252581052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the processes are quite memory intensive, each one will need a few MB during processing each file < 1252581083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about time; if they complete in 0.001s it doesn't matter if they need a few MB < 1252581098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe 4-5 seconds per file < 1252581117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just a one-shot thing, just do the find, dump results to file, split it in twain, run two instances of your process. < 1252581126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not a one shot thing. < 1252581133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because yes I thought about that < 1252581138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not a one-shot thing, make a script which does that. :-P < 1252581143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P < 1252581155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a bit of Perl for that sort of thing, but it's strictly for dispatching processes for our Sun Grid Engine cluster, not a general-purpose thing. < 1252581158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe I'll write a parallel find wrapper script for find < 1252581202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is a solved problem, if you want a more permanent solution < 1252581216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1252581222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252581222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/parallel/ for example < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) < 1252581239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252581241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know < 1252581270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's a cacert cert. < 1252581333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes seems very useful < 1252581343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if ubuntu has a package for it < 1252581380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch doesn't seem to, at least < 1252581384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm doesn't seem so < 1252581453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though xargs does have the -P flag too, like they mention. < 1252581544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that seems useful too < 1252581554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the manpage is always a good thing to do first. < 1252581557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't need the fancy, that just might do it. The parallel page lists all the shortcomings, though. < 1252581759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs seems enough here < 1252582956 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbfdczmsejamtzeg JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583015 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252583021 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583023 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252583322 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583542 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1252583929 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-vcprjvorjokatpwl JOIN :#esoteric < 1252584301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero < 1252584423 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252584453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, digg databases? what happened? < 1252584494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click on the first link and you'll see the story. < 1252584994 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252585574 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252585630 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252585764 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252586380 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252587443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252588972 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbfhkvdyaykgyuks JOIN :#esoteric < 1252590666 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252590779 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252591007 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-zcgflwxhmctvqpqk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252592076 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252592085 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1252593006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." < 1252594824 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl < 1252595920 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252597183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252597542 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252598791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you think they ever heard of "benchmarking"? < 1252598816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they've heard of it, they benchmarked their PHP to beat their MySQL < 1252598848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have a really hard time to believe that php would be faster than mysql at it. Even though mysql sucks. But so does PHP < 1252598871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can easily be faster if the way they're doing the query and/or their DB structure sucks < 1252598900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1252598972 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252599689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself humming "summon bigger fish" < 1252599906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1252601156 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252602638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and I thought I mentioned iwc earlier today, seems I misremembered < 1252602738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't get iwc today though < 1252602767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with the annotation? < 1252602797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define knock < 1252602798 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* deliver a sharp blow or push :"He knocked the glass clear across the room" \ * rap with the knuckles; "knock on the door" \ * the sound of knocking (as on a door or in an engine or bearing); "the knocking grew louder" < 1252602810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the issue was the reverse, I understood it was supposed to be a pun on that word, just not what else it was supposed to be like < 1252602819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has knock got to do with it? < 1252602834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know what knocking is < 1252602839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some of the meanings < 1252602845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those mentioned there at least < 1252602850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am guessing you are missing the right meaning of knock < 1252602858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not listed there < 1252602862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and that one was? < 1252602906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'find fault with; express criticism of; point out real or perceived flaws; "The paper criticized the new movie"; "Don't knock the food--it's free"' < 1252602945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah didn't know that meaning < 1252603287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what on earth has the vlc logo has got to do with that song though? I'm pretty sure that cone thing near the start was the vlc logo < 1252603513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot make out the lyrics enough to tell if there's anything relevant said at that point < 1252603542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sung < 1252603553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252603600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I was playing it *in* vlc I first thought vlc failed in some way and was displaying a dummy image or something like that < 1252603703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it _is_ also a generic road sign... < 1252603746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_cone < 1252603831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes but that specific image of it... < 1252603838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is exactly the vlc logo < 1252603857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it may still be used for the generic meaning < 1252606209 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252607534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252609639 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252610345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252612079 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252612216 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24:09 do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) < 1252612222 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to see anything funny on Uncyclopedia < 1252612226 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I doubt this will be the first < 1252612697 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]" < 1252612715 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252612793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever considered a fingerprint for gettext? < 1252612892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I can't even remember what gettext is... nope < 1252612899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some localization thing? < 1252612914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I18N thingy? < 1252613418 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: man 3 gettext < 1252613441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: google.com/search?q=gettext < 1252614454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gettext is for lazy fornrs! < 1252614689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "L2SPK enlgz", right? < 1252614712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "fornrs" short for "fornicators"? < 1252614807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:59 meh < 1252614814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the SSL system is broken anyway? < 1252614823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, context? < 1252614831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. < 1252614832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. < 1252614834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) < 1252614845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I know it is broken < 1252614847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSL is useful for avoiding eavesdropping; the verification system is shittier than a pile of bricks that are shit. < 1252614857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is still irritating when firefox does that however < 1252614866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disable it :P < 1252614870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1252614880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, it's probably in about:config < 1252614884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extension < 1252614887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252614896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possibly the most annoying error page ever though, I agree < 1252614909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes three clicks and a wait of almost a second to bypass it < 1252614915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially since there are so many clicks to get around it yeah < 1252614933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what... you agreed with me? < 1252614933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no doubt the people who made it have never read a book on usability, because that shit does *not* make the user comprehend what you're trying to tell them < 1252614934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1252614941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is going to end this time < 1252614941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird. < 1252614951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok. Nice to meet you < 1252614952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i jump around in fields of candy floss all day and am filled with childlike naivete. < 1252614955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you get the memo? < 1252614966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- You have 0 memos (0 new). < 1252614967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1252614989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torernts are unreasonably slow < 1252615004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http download: ~800kiB/s < 1252615012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrent: ~150kiB/s < 1252615018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torrents < 1252615022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is on a high-popularity torrent too < 1252615034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if everyone was downloading from the same server at the same time? would you get ~800kiB/s then too? < 1252615045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, see e.g. usenet providers < 1252615047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set browser.ssl_override_behavior to 2 from the default 1, in which case it automatically downloads the certificate; that's a bit less clicking involved. < 1252615061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost impossible to get a usenet provider to give you much less than your connection speed < 1252615066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well assuming a server with good bw. but that costs quite a bit < 1252615100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently not too much; you can get unlimited download, uncapped, uncensored usenet with a huge number of groups for $15/mo < 1252615165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant for the server hoster, and yes it would work out if you get customer to pay. But I haven't seen linux distros over usenet. And linux distros over torrent is quite common < 1252615178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are Linux distros on usenet < 1252615179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often where they can't afford bw < 1252615189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usenet has everything < 1252615195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh really? would be split into thousands of messages for the iso? < 1252615206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Modern clients handle that automatically, dood. < 1252615213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They show it as one and download them all automatically. < 1252615215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combine them < 1252615218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252615228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly I haven't used any modern client then < 1252615233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got some Debian disk image or other such thing torrented several megabytes per second. But I'm not completely certain on this. < 1252615247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, obviously I mean binary oriented clients. < 1252615255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I maxed my connection speed on the gentoo torrents a few times < 1252615257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, everyone loves the Linux ISOs. Not so much love for the Windows ISOs. < 1252615278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone can max out their connection on Ubuntu 17.97 Pooping Porpoise. < 1252615296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well if a torrent isn't popular, what do you expect? < 1252615306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1775 seeds, 2537 peers. < 1252615309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's a ghost down. < 1252615311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*town < 1252615313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for ubuntu for example? < 1252615315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and here's why it doesn't fetch the certificate by default: < 1252615316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody downloading this, nosiree. < 1252615318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Similar numbers. < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This patch sets a default of 1, meaning that the cert dialog will be < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-populated with the site's URL, but as Kai mentions in bug 401575, by not < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-fetching it, we reduce the amount of text the user sees, and remove the < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ability to immediately click the override button." < 1252615328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except all the Ubuntu ivory tower people have 100000000000000000000 jiggabit connections :P < 1252615362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with SSL is that it's trying to replace human reason in determining whether you can trust something < 1252615368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that will simply never work < 1252615381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes "falling tree" animation in widelands is broken when you run at 2x normal speed. < 1252615448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm < 1252615457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they used TCP/IP over carrier pigeon. < 1252615464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I call for a rematch. < 1252615503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1252615529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with QoS? < 1252615529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Sure, the bandwidth is nice, but the latency sucks." // this) < 1252615536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know what that is < 1252615553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they should have made it carry an SSD < 1252615554 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252615558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure pigeons can handle 81g :P < 1252615559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a RFC for IP over avian carrier with QoS < 1252615560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252615570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ...? < 1252615577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I committed some nerd sin by not knowing that? < 1252615581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252615613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, did they use QoS or not ;P < 1252615627 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, SSL has global namespace. < 1252615629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used a USB memory stick. < 1252615635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes? < 1252615640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -_- You don't know what QoS is? < 1252615661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what QoS stands for. < 1252615665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1252615796 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global namespace is not good for trustworthiness determination. < 1252615844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1252615906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountainamerica.com? What the heck is that? Etc... < 1252615920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A squatter page :P < 1252615934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, DNS really needs distributing. Fuck the root servers. < 1252615944 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like phishing page (I don't recall what the exect name was). < 1252616551 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1252616726 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252616727 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252618368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of the traffic cone, it's not exactly the VLC logo image. For one thing, in the video there's a dark ellipse on top of the cone; that's not in the VLC logo. And the VLC logo has a bit of reflections going on in there. (Admittedly it could be an older VLC logo, since it's so very similar. But it's not the same image that's in icon and about-box of the current VLC versions.) < 1252618402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic coon < 1252618429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:05:01 Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero < 1252618431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha sweet < 1252618606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:30:06 An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." < 1252618608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1252619336 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're doing a full cartesian join :P < 1252619398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Is quite retarded. < 1252620060 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252620825 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252622643 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624084 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624330 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624733 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252624735 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252626031 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252626255 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bo-ring < 1252626965 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric