00:01:01 Eg. wrapping or similar isn't really necessary in the implementation? 00:02:10 most implementations specify how they handle numbers 00:02:16 wrapping to 255 is common 00:02:35 but I wouldn't call it undefined; it's generally expected that -+ will always leave the cell unaltered 00:03:16 i vaguely recall something about implementations using church numerals that bombed on decrementing 0 00:03:41 since church numerals cannot be negative 00:08:57 Bleh 00:09:13 I guess I can move my memory events down a bit 00:20:20 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:20:58 There's no way I'm going to remember anything about J tomorrow 00:22:51 Sgeo: so are you that faceless guy? :) 00:22:59 ? 00:23:28 someone who posted a J AskReddit-like self post in r/programming 00:23:46 about a day old 00:24:17 on second page now 00:24:32 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9f5g5/attempting_to_learn_jit_makes_me_cry_any_advice/ 00:25:49 Not me 00:26:34 impossible, there cannot be two people learning J simultaneously... 00:26:58 lol 00:46:28 I played around with J some time during the spring 00:46:37 It was quite interesting 00:48:08 Do you remember it? 01:01:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 01:01:18 Hi :-) 01:01:22 -!- Asztal has quit ("."). 01:03:28 'lo 01:15:40 Sgeo, nope :D 01:17:26 i'm bored 01:18:02 Now I think I have an RMXP implementation of BF.. thought severely limited, not supporting input and the only output is numerical 01:18:07 though* 01:18:45 without using the built-in scripting (ruby), that is 01:41:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:58:40 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 02:09:00 -!- Pije has joined. 02:39:23 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out). 02:41:54 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 02:59:02 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:01:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:08:15 -!- Pije has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds). 03:13:23 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1.2/20090801173140]"). 03:14:14 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:35:33 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 04:13:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:32:21 My peppermint soda is a big hit with people who are TOTALLY NOT ME. 04:54:39 -!- oklofok has joined. 04:55:57 -!- Asztal has joined. 05:03:00 ew 05:03:03 peppermint soda 05:05:18 i want 05:14:43 Opinions from people who have never tried it: Mixed :P 05:15:29 * oklofok just got back disappointing exam results 05:18:53 okay.. one more day and high speed university connection.. relative to wireless at least 05:19:32 i'm satisfied if irc works 05:19:46 it always does! 05:20:03 well. modulo firewalls. 05:22:19 irc often magically works even when i can't make a connection to the internets 05:22:42 of course it's probably because the connection exists already, and pixies are preventing the forming of new ones 05:22:51 but it's very magical still 05:28:34 pikhq has had the same problem 05:30:36 i used to, but i forgot to pay the net bill again, and the neighbor's net doesn't seem to do it. 05:30:57 which is good, because it might be rude to go flip their modem thingie on/off 05:32:43 (off/on) 05:34:37 heh 05:34:49 just do it from the undefended web interface :P 05:36:10 i'm not sure i'm tech savvy enough, took me quite a while to even understand what you meant 05:36:23 god i'm sleepy 05:37:55 third night of sitting in a car, watching an empty yard 05:42:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:48:04 I had to switch DNS servers. And magic works. 05:50:35 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:51:31 -!- DarkPants has joined. 05:52:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:57:21 -!- DarkPants has changed nick to GreaseMokey. 05:57:23 -!- GreaseMokey has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 06:10:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:15:36 -!- rodgort` has changed nick to rodgort. 06:24:25 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:31:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has left (?). 07:07:27 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:23:49 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:23:53 -!- Leonidas has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:26:13 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:36:34 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:46:44 -!- coppro has joined. 08:50:30 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:56:02 -!- ehird has quit. 09:02:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:20:53 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:42:27 -!- oklofok has joined. 09:49:39 walking on the bridge, i was sure i could fly 09:49:56 and when i saw a tree, i could've been a squirrel 09:50:25 luckily i can sleep in just three and a half hours. 09:51:03 oklofok, err ok. Sure you feel all right? 09:51:16 maybe you need a bit MORE sleep than that 09:51:37 i can sleep *in* 3.5 hours, that is, after that amount of time 09:52:07 before that, i need to play the guitar. that's probably going to work just fine, seeing as i'm basically hallusinating 09:52:17 (at least i feel i could start to) 09:53:38 sleeping 3 hour nights feels interesting after getting used to 12 10:21:36 -!- Dewio has joined. 10:21:57 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:22:08 -!- oklofok has joined. 10:24:53 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:25:31 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:25:57 -!- ehird has joined. 10:35:00 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 10:36:44 14:36:25 * Sgeo vaguely hopes that posting an AskReddit style question in /r/programming is ok 10:36:53 it's generally discouraged to not find things out yourself... 10:36:57 you ask an awful lot of qs 10:37:16 -!- oklofok has joined. 10:39:06 -!- Dewio has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:40:16 -!- Dewi has joined. 10:49:46 -!- Dewio has joined. 10:51:10 Dewiont 10:52:19 does anyone know how much a typical 2.5" notebook hard drive weighs? 10:52:19 haha. Oh shit... I unplugged a light in my computer corner a couple of times. My LAN would go down... looks like internet was too. How worrying. 10:52:41 ehird: not much... couple hundred grams? 10:52:57 Dewio: yah, but that matters at this scale, so that's quite vague :) 10:53:02 :) 10:53:05 I guess single/double platter changes it 10:53:23 find one of those PDF data sheets, they have everything 10:53:28 Everyone knows that it varies, anyway! http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vistahardware/thread/720108ee-0a9c-4090-b62d-bbd5cb1a7605 10:57:36 Dewio: unfortunately I don't know the brand; guess i'll have to try and find it out 10:58:58 fujitsu it seems. 10:59:32 or perhaps not. 11:01:39 ehh, I'll just estimate it 11:01:50 single platter = 250g 11:01:57 double platter=400g 11:02:01 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 11:03:23 and it seems that an SSD weighs about 81g 11:04:04 now the question is, how much does a notebook CD burner weigh... hmm 11:04:13 I bet 500g 11:04:21 nah, too much 11:04:22 lessay 400g 11:12:26 -!- M0ny has joined. 11:20:38 ehird, I'm going to do something that is probably insane. 11:20:48 I'll jump off a bridge too 11:20:53 ehird, I'm going to dig out my red hat 5.0 cds 11:20:58 and install them in virtualbox 11:20:59 NO 11:21:07 AnMaster: Phew 11:21:15 I thought you meant on modern hardware 11:21:28 ehird, well virtualbox simulates modern hardware so... 11:21:35 Not really 11:21:55 ehird, iirc it has a 2.4 kernel too 11:22:06 * AnMaster remembers the old make xconfig... 11:22:15 some TK GUI iirc 11:22:29 Not pure X protocol? :-( 11:22:42 ehird, not sure... it was SO long ago 11:22:49 I mean without even xlib 11:22:56 well no 11:23:09 make xconfig under 2.6 kernels uses QT btw 11:23:18 Viva la Athena! 11:23:29 ehird, :D 11:23:32 oh and... 11:23:50 I can only find red hat 6.0 cds... 11:23:58 I know I have 5.0 ones around somewhere 11:24:01 but can't find them 11:24:03 :( 11:24:13 Try and make X11 run on Linux 0.1 11:24:29 ehird, would need to patch the kernel a lot for it 11:24:34 so pointless 11:24:44 AnMaster: It comes with a Swedish keyboard layout though! 11:24:58 That'll save you from, like, one stub. 11:25:06 ehird, hm? 11:25:13 Hm what? 11:25:18 ehird, and yeah it is a good default 11:25:31 weird it isn't default any longer 11:25:34 Hm what? 11:25:34 IMO 11:25:42 ehird, " That'll save you from, like, one stub." <-- ? 11:25:49 (You don't seriously find that weird, do you?) 11:25:57 ehird, no 11:26:03 AnMaster: Stubs are the metric unit for stubbed toes.[1] 11:26:05 [1]: http://www.daisyowl.com/comic/2009-04-06 11:26:59 ehird, what the hell is the thing above it supposed to be? 11:27:05 A futon. 11:27:13 "This futon" might be a hint, huh. 11:27:46 If you have some sort of insatiable urge to figure out any sort of context for it, http://www.daisyowl.com/comic/2009-03-27 11:27:50 ehird, oh right, thought it was the instrument 11:27:58 ...The...futon...instrument. 11:28:06 yeah 11:28:11 What 11:33:46 ehird, indeed 11:33:54 No, like, what 11:34:01 ehird, yeah exactly 11:34:15 Your mom 11:34:30 ehird, your too 11:34:40 *your's 11:34:59 ehird, what ever 11:35:03 (space intentional) 11:35:14 Ergo your wrong bitch. 11:35:47 ehird, that's what SHE said 11:36:17 ((Meanwhile, AnMaster is oblivious) 11:36:18 ) 11:36:29 XD 11:37:15 ??? 11:37:17 PROFIT! 11:37:28 (No, I didn't sleep well) 11:37:54 "Moldover's latest CD has a case, which comes with a theremin built into it." 11:37:58 Afhjfdgfgjkdfgksjfdhgksdfjghl O_O 11:38:06 I will buy it, no matter what music it contains HOLY SHIT 11:38:09 http://blogs.westword.com/backbeat/moldovertheremincase.jpg 11:38:17 Wow. wow wow wow wow wow. wow. 11:38:37 wow sounds cool 11:39:07 ehird, would be a very basic one I guess? 11:39:10 It has a headphone port 11:39:16 AnMaster: not much to theremins, really 11:39:21 but sure, it won't be high-quality 11:39:31 ehird, well yeah, but I meant as in "low quality" 11:39:37 not a professional one 11:39:42 Sure 11:39:51 But the good ones range like £500-£3,000 11:39:57 yeah 11:40:01 The one I got second-hand for £200 was probably about £500 new 11:40:08 hm 11:40:19 `google was this the command? 11:40:29 `calc 11:40:35 `calc £200 to SEK 11:40:38 meh 11:40:41 Calculate what? 11:40:42 UK 200 = 2 311.62777 Swedish kronor 11:40:42 A history of operating systems, by Neal Stephenson, the author of such novels as 'Snow Crash', 'The Diamond Age' and 'Zodiac'. \ www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html - [14]Cached - [15]Similar 11:40:45 ... 11:40:54 `calc 200 £ in SEK 11:40:55 200 UK = 2 311.62777 Swedish kronor 11:40:59 `calc 500 £ in SEK 11:41:03 `calc 2,000 £ in SEK 11:41:07 500 UK = 5 779.06944 Swedish kronor 11:41:08 it's SLOOOW 11:41:08 2000 UK = 23 116.2777 Swedish kronor 11:41:24 ok that is fucking expensive 11:41:33 twice the cost of a laptop 11:41:34 AnMaster: They're legitimate musical instruments 11:41:39 How much does a good piano cost? 11:41:42 ehird, well true 11:42:02 ehird, and the answer is: a metric fuckton more 11:42:06 Hmm, the track on the stite of the artist who did it is good, too bad the CD+theremin costs $50 11:42:18 ( 11:42:20 `calc 50 $ in SEK 11:42:20 ) 11:42:21 50 US$ = 355.285223 Swedish kronor 11:42:27 mhm 11:43:02 ehird, fuck pulseaudio 11:43:04 know why? 11:43:08 why 11:43:19 I start playing something in vlc or rythmbox or whatever 11:43:33 and it assigns it to one software "channel" or whatever the term is 11:43:42 And 11:43:43 then it jumps a few times, causing audible pops 11:43:50 for the first few seconds 11:43:52 always 11:43:54 Sounds like what's known as a bvug. 11:43:55 *bug 11:43:59 ehird, yep. 11:44:01 Like, with your drivers or sth. 11:44:07 That isn't a reason to _hate_ PulseAudio 11:44:15 Just a reason not to use it since it doesn't work well with your config combination 11:44:39 ehird, well I checked with that pulseaudio channel info thingy and noticed it happened when it jumped channels 11:44:44 doesn't happen with pure alsa 11:44:52 You aren't listening to what I'm saying 11:44:55 ehird, Intel HD Audio thingy is the driver 11:45:21 ehird, well I only have one system with pulseaudio. On my desktop I use jack 11:45:31 You aren't listening to what I'm saying 11:45:43 [11:44] ehird: That isn't a reason to _hate_ PulseAudio 11:45:43 [11:44] ehird: Just a reason not to use it since it doesn't work well with your config combination 11:45:59 ehird, well... ubuntu uses it. not sure how I would go about removing it and replacing it with dmix... 11:46:12 since I never used dmix due to my desktop having a hardware mixer 11:46:18 apt-get 11:46:26 or, try and fix pulseaudio 11:46:52 ehird, well apt-get yes to remove pulseaudio, but how to get it to use something else instead is the question here.. 11:46:59 Install another thing 11:47:49 ehird, well alsa+dmix is already there below somewhere, so it should just be a case of *shudder* messing with the asoundrc and openalrc and various other sound library configs 11:47:55 No. 11:47:58 It is done automatically. 11:48:09 You can just "sudo apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio". 11:48:11 There are more sound libraries than there are user space programs using sound libraries... 11:48:11 And reboot. 11:48:17 ehird, sure about this? 11:48:21 Yes. 11:48:26 ehird, huh 11:48:33 If it doesn't work, your system is fucking weird, which is probable. 11:48:49 AnMaster: it *is* ubuntu we're talking here 11:48:51 Of course it just works 11:48:54 ehird, so ubuntu has it set up to automatically fall back on something else hm 11:48:57 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 11:49:03 Yes, it's done with alternatives or something similar 11:49:42 ehird, right. Will do that in a bit. ATM it is compiling something. 11:50:01 Try ossv4, it's probably an apt-get away :P 11:50:15 And why am I compiling something? I bet you wonder. Well in this case due to being a developer of said project 11:50:26 I was not wondering that at all. 11:50:41 ehird, damn you ;P 11:51:31 ehird, btw about trackpoint vs. touchpad: I observed it a bit, well I'm faster with touchpad, but more accurate with trackpoint 11:51:43 That makes sense 11:52:05 ehird, an external mouse beats both though 11:52:29 if I wanted to rely on external peripherals I'd buy a tower 11:53:01 ehird, well I can't do image editing without an external mouse 11:53:13 but I don't do that a lot on the laptop 11:53:27 due to it being so high res it is almost impossible to see what you are doing 11:53:38 If I wanted to be a photographer, I'd buy a Mac Pro, a 30" Eizo, and a high-end camera 11:53:49 Thankfully, I don't 11:53:49 ehird, yeah *sigh* 11:54:06 Even if I wanted to I'd probably abstain, because of, uhh, money. 11:54:13 ehird, not that laptop with an extra 10" screen? 11:54:22 It's not IPS 11:54:34 IPS? InterProceduralService? 11:54:35 So pretty much instantly disqualified for anything involving colours 11:54:38 IPS screen 11:54:39 vs TN 11:54:43 oh right 11:54:44 IPS are the thick ones 11:54:56 TN are the cheap ones that invert unless you're looking directly at them 11:55:13 AnMaster: As for screen realestate, 11:55:20 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/gscreen-creating-rugged-dual-screen-laptop-for-animated-frogs-an/ 11:55:24 http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/dual-screen-gscreen-laptop-gets-pictured-hopefully-launching-th/ 11:55:29 Fear. 11:55:34 ehird, my desktop one doesn't invert except when you are close to looking along it 11:55:45 AnMaster: It distorts the colours, at least 11:55:48 You just don't notice 11:55:57 All TN displays are absolutely horrible, pretty much 11:56:00 ehird, well not a lot until at very far angle 11:56:06 Not to your eyes 12:05:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out). 12:05:37 You know what the bendable, transparent OLED displays should also be? 12:05:38 Cuttable. 12:05:40 With scissors. 12:05:48 Buy a sheet of display, cut out to fit! 12:07:29 -!- Dewi has joined. 12:12:31 ehird, XD 12:12:42 It would be awesome. 12:12:46 ehird, btw touchpad on my thinkpad is a bit cramped. 12:12:55 It is? 12:13:02 That's nice. Mine won't have one :P 12:13:06 ehird, :P 12:13:12 Infinitely cramped, you could say 12:13:23 nice way to describe it 12:19:07 -!- Dewio has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 12:22:09 "Lenovo's W700ds is a monster machine for sure; a freakish implementation of a power-user's wishlist created with little regard for practical concerns like portability or cost." <-- nice summary. 12:22:18 gScreen is the better 12:22:35 Although I don't know if it does RAID 12:22:51 Link them together as one CPU box 12:22:53 I'm sure BSD can do that 12:22:55 ehird, no built in colour calibrator. Or tablet.. 12:23:03 Yes, but two 17" screens, dammit 12:23:14 true 12:23:15 (or maybe just 15"; not sure. they're doing 13" too tho) 12:23:21 So plug them together 12:23:28 AnMaster: Also, it's a DIGITIZER. :P 12:23:38 *DIGITISER 12:23:45 ehird, yeah, but they are often called wacom tablets iirc 12:23:59 I was parroting Lenovo. 12:24:42 ehird, why not remake it as dual screen tablet computer 12:24:52 that would be like awesomeish freakishy 12:24:57 freakish* 12:25:08 30" tablet notebook, plz. 12:25:14 Multitouch, too. 12:25:15 ehird, :D 12:25:17 Call it the iLug. 12:25:21 From Apple. 12:25:22 ehird, you mean, two pens? 12:25:30 No, it works with your fingers too. :P 12:25:35 well yeah 12:26:25 Mh, I need to build a wearable computer 12:27:29 :< 12:28:03 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1.2/20090801173140]"). 12:29:06 I wish BeagleBoard was a little less ... underpowered. 12:29:28 Mh, I need to build a wearable computer <-- a 30" wearable one XD 12:29:29 But a heatsink and a fan on my shoulders sounds unfun. 12:29:40 ehird, with a tablet! 12:29:40 AnMaster: Subjectively, that's how big the displays look, yes. 12:29:46 ehird, yes indeed 12:29:55 The black-'n-read Private Eye one looks like a 60" screen at 10 feet 12:30:01 (= 3 meters) 12:30:06 *red 12:30:10 black-'n-read ? 12:30:14 *red 12:30:14 ah 12:30:15 red 12:30:30 Terrible DPI for a 60" screen :P 12:30:43 AnMaster: re: tablet - I'll probably use a trackpoint for the mousing 12:30:55 due to anything that requires moving being awkwar 12:30:56 d 12:32:07 ehird, heh 12:32:24 Wow, BeagleBoards only come with one USB port 12:32:34 I wonder what the smallest USB hub in the world is :P 12:32:53 I gotta stuff WiFi, 3G, and all my IO devices on it 12:33:00 Though it might have PS/2 for the keyboard/mouse :P 12:33:25 well, it also has DVI 12:33:28 so the display is ok 12:34:07 but still 12:34:10 only one USB port 12:36:17 otoh, I don't know of any more easy-to-buy, works-as-is heatsinkless, small ARM boards 12:36:20 apart from gumstix 12:36:25 but they're not more powerful 12:36:31 and ais says they break a lot 12:41:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 12:57:19 ehird, what do you need that for? 12:57:27 Wearable computer 12:57:31 oh right 12:57:34 Computer gotta go somewhere, ya ken 12:57:51 ehird, why not use a Server ATX size mobo? 12:57:59 For... very obvious reasons. 12:58:00 would fit nicely in a large backpack 12:58:12 Heck, even the processor: 12:58:14 Battery life 12:58:16 Power 12:58:18 Heat 12:58:22 true 12:58:27 Needs heatsink = very hot and heavy 12:58:34 ehird, heat? nice during cold winters 12:58:35 Probably needs fan = noisy, hot, heavy, easy to jam 12:58:36 etc 12:58:37 heats your back 12:59:03 a Beagle Board can fit into a very big pocket; it's 7.6 cm on all sides (not depth...) 12:59:11 well not "very" big, just big 12:59:35 ehird, could break easily, you need a sturdy box to put it in 12:59:44 No, just an anti-static bag 12:59:50 And a zip on the pocket 12:59:57 Should do the trick 12:59:57 ehird, could break easily... 13:00:01 Not really 13:00:05 It IS made out of copper or whatever 13:00:13 And there's no moving parts 13:00:25 So if you bend your pockets to hell regularly, I guess 13:00:31 Not sure how that would work 13:00:39 ehird, sitting down? 13:00:46 well pockets in trousers 13:00:55 Yes, well, don't put it in a back pocket. 13:00:56 don't put it in your back pocket! 13:01:01 Snap. 13:01:01 damn you are too fast 13:01:27 The main problem with a wearable - okay, not the main one, just yet another one - is the keyboard. 13:01:39 I have rather unrealistic demands. I want to be able to code on this thing. 13:01:41 ehird, You need whatever star trek uses... 13:02:01 Don't they just have wearable transporters 13:02:02 Computer, blah blah 13:02:12 Yes, but there's a reason those computers are stationary :P 13:02:19 well yeah 13:02:39 ehird, or not. They are on space ships, which are moving... 13:02:43 btw... 13:02:46 why "space ship" 13:02:50 why not "space plane" 13:03:05 Because they're more like ships 13:03:05 I mean... flying is closer than sailing to traveling in space 13:03:10 ehird, are they? 13:03:19 Airplanes are just a string of seats for the mostpart 13:03:29 ehird, well yes... hm 13:03:33 Spaceships have roomy rooms and levels and stuff 13:03:40 Like ship 13:03:41 s 13:03:57 ehird, there are lots of planes that have more than one level though 13:04:09 But it's still more like a ship 13:04:11 like, Boeing 777 iirc 13:04:13 ehird, true 13:09:42 http://www.amazon.com/Four-Legs-Bad-Good-hardcover/dp/0618809090 13:09:51 I think this may be an inappropriate name for a children's book 13:09:54 :D 13:11:24 AnMaster: "ship" is a general world that can mean any nice big travelling machine. 13:11:27 *word 13:11:32 oklofok, heh 13:12:21 you can use it for a plain as well, technically, space plain would be more restricting, space ship doesn't imply it's closer to the sea kinda ships than planes 13:12:31 hmm 13:12:35 oklofok, a plain? 13:12:40 the wording may have been slightly confusing 13:12:54 oklofok is a very plane man 13:13:00 AnMaster: "ship" could also mean a big flying machine, in my expert opinion 13:13:01 ehird, :D 13:13:04 don't ask ehird, what would he know 13:13:24 ...is what i meant 13:13:27 the former i mean 13:13:28 glah 13:13:31 eh... 13:13:42 ehird: please tell AnMaster what i'm trying to say 13:13:51 "plane" 13:13:59 he knows what you mean 13:14:01 ... 13:14:06 did i say "plain"? 13:14:09 yes, oklofok. 13:14:10 xD 13:14:10 yes you did. 13:14:11 I'm literally laughing out loud atm 13:14:13 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxD 13:14:30 i said it twice, it seems 13:14:42 yes. 13:14:46 you are a failure, oklofok. :P 13:15:10 oklofok, yes if it was only once the typo would have gone un-noticed. But when it happened twice after each other I thought it was intentional 13:15:18 and some sort of bad joke 13:15:47 could've been 13:15:55 something i would do 13:15:57 a sail full of found and fury 13:16:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:16:23 but when i'm struggling to get my thoughts out, i rarely intentionally encrypt them 13:16:39 that's what you _think_ 13:16:42 •¶¯•!*(k` 13:16:42 how fucking hard can it be to explain a word is more general than someone thinks 13:16:56 General oklofok! Atten-SHUN! 13:17:37 General Attenborough! Atten-FOK! 13:17:51 i just had the image of david attenborough having sex 13:17:52 thanks 13:18:27 That's evolution! 13:18:35 that's what you _think_ <-- and that's what she _said_! 13:18:38 you should've seen me at band training, the drummer had to constantly correct my actions (outside play), "switch the amp on", "don't forget your X" for about 3 items when leaving etc 13:18:41 (and so did your mom) 13:18:51 i just stared 13:19:06 and like "oh, right, i'm awake, let's obey" 13:19:47 :D 13:23:01 wikipedia seems to list no military attenboroughs :/ 13:26:42 Wow 13:26:43 http://www.marco.org/172461410 13:26:52 10Mbit/s cable internet 13:26:55 for what is $52/mo today 13:26:57 in 1999 13:27:04 and you could pay more for a 100Mbit version 13:27:07 unmetered 13:27:13 internet service has truly regressed 13:37:03 * ehird decides to try and write a game using Gambit-C scheme and SDL or something 13:39:58 gambit's c linking stuff seems quite good. 13:42:43 Are there any interesting "simple" graphics libs like _why's Shoes (which is for GUIs, not graphics, but anyway) 13:42:58 Shoes can do graphics too, but hmm 13:42:58 Yes 13:43:05 Deewiant: Processing (not a lib, but eh) for one 13:43:27 Ah, true, I'd forgotten about that one 13:43:52 Deewiant: If you want a nicer, more functional-y language for Processing, try http://technically.us/spde/About 13:44:00 Can't think of anything else off the top of my head 13:44:11 These things tend to want to take over the whole environment for simplicity reasons 13:44:17 even shoes is quite isolated 13:44:31 Yep 13:44:48 Deewiant: If you just want to push some pixels in the IO monad, haskell has a nice gd biniding 13:44:53 But that kinda sucks for anything more 13:45:20 There didn't seem to be anything suitably nice FRP stuff 13:45:22 s/thing// 13:45:29 s/stuff/thing/ 13:45:31 FRP and simple doesn't really uhhhhh mix 13:45:32 Bah, watever 13:45:46 s/simple/highlevel/ then 13:45:58 ((SICP)) has what you need. 13:46:04 (Note: Tautology) 13:46:13 (SICP is the definition of what is a thing) 13:46:42 I don't want to code the stuff myself and what SICP gives readymade is a bit limited :-P 13:47:05 http://butnotyet.tumblr.com/post/175132533/the-story-of-a-simple-and-dangerous-kernel-bug ;; Yikes 13:47:13 Deewiant: SICP even has graphics stuff? 13:47:18 Doesn't it? 13:47:24 I don't even know 13:47:47 I recall something like that in the Abelson-Sussman lectures 13:47:56 *The Sussman 13:47:56 Might not have been in the book 13:48:05 Don't you even *know*. 13:48:11 Things. 13:48:15 Abelson is a person as well 13:48:45 Yes, but Abelson isn't The Abelson, as far as I'm aware. 13:49:20 Yes he is 13:49:26 Is he 13:49:30 I am going to have to demand a citation 13:49:51 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 13:50:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Abelson 13:50:07 I don't see any "The Abelson" there. 13:50:18 Oh, nor even "The Sussman"; I conclude that this page is an evil fabrication. 13:50:20 Nor do I see any "The Sussman" so I guess we were both wrong 13:50:33 No, he is obviously The Sussman. This is self-evident. 13:50:51 TheSussmanness is as self-evident as TheAbelsonness 13:51:03 Either both are or neither is 13:51:03 Your thinking is unscientific and ultimately destructive. 13:51:07 Repent. 13:51:57 I haven't really pent before so I can't repent now can I 13:52:27 You attempt to speak deeply, but you have not achieved Satori. Please cease and desist. 13:52:34 :| 13:52:59 :|? 13:53:11 :| 13:53:15 :| 13:53:15 I am disappointed in you, student. 13:53:18 :| 13:53:20 :| party! 13:53:23 :| 13:55:42 (:|) 13:55:50 ( ) :| 13:55:53 ( ) :| I am free! 13:55:56 :| 13:56:14 |:| 13:56:17 | | : I am free! 13:56:19 : 13:56:24 :| 13:56:34 ˝| : 13:56:42 ˝| : I am pretty sure this is a segmentation fault or something 13:56:46 : Core dumped 13:56:47 $ 13:56:52 ls 13:57:09 $ 13:57:16 pwd 13:57:21 /root 13:57:23 You have mail. 13:57:23 $ 13:57:29 mail 13:58:01 GNU male 77.4 released 3001-07-42 13:58:17 1 The Sussman Dear Lord, please let people know my name. 13:58:18 > 13:58:22 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 13:58:23 p 13:58:34 But I don't need to. 13:58:34 > 13:58:55 q 13:58:56 Pun fault 13:58:56 $ 13:59:01 No command: q 13:59:02 $ 13:59:11 cd ..; ls 13:59:40 /bin /absolutely_not_cthulhu /kernel /lib /home /boring_system_stuff 13:59:41 $ 13:59:49 ls boring_system_stuff 14:00:15 /some_sort_of_proc_shit /filesystem_drivers /god_I_hate_being_an_operating_system /all_the_rest_of_the_boring_system_stuff 14:00:16 $ 14:00:23 # Hey, what happened to /root 14:00:28 cd root 14:00:35 $ 14:00:44 cd ..; ls root 14:00:51 No such directory: root 14:00:57 # O_o 14:01:00 tree 14:01:10 Too fucking lazy to: tree 14:01:11 $ 14:01:19 find -name root 14:01:24 $ 14:01:59 (Try meditating or something) 14:02:02 $ 14:02:07 ls home 14:02:42 /adam /eve /grunt /urgh /eurr /fafa /dookadoo Too many files in directory, aborting 14:02:43 $ 14:02:56 ls home/adam home/eve 14:03:19 adam: original_sin divorce_papers 14:03:23 eve: original_sin apple 14:03:26 $ 14:03:47 file home/{adam,eve}/* 14:04:03 original_sin: Sin 14:04:09 divorce_papers: Microsoft Word document 14:04:12 original_sin: Sin 14:04:17 apple: It's, uhh, an apple 14:04:18 $ 14:04:22 # :-D 14:04:51 file /absolutely_not_cthulhu/* # Let's get this show on the road 14:05:27 fhtagn: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 14:05:52 14:05:55 $ 14:06:00 mv home/eve/apple /absolutely_not_cthulhu/fhtagn 14:06:16 Permission denied 14:06:18 $ 14:06:26 whoami 14:06:30 root 14:06:31 $ 14:06:51 ls -l home/eve/apple absolutely_not_cthulhu/fhtagn 14:06:57 Permission denied 14:07:01 wait, no 14:07:04 ^H^H^H^H^H 14:07:10 Should be separate for each, no 14:07:10 home/apple/eve 14:07:14 absolutely_not_cthulhu/fhtagn 14:07:15 $ 14:07:25 ls --version 14:07:40 info: Terminal type unknown 14:07:42 $ 14:08:04 stat home/eve/apple absolutely_not_cthulhu/fhtagn 14:08:30 ETOOLAZY 14:08:30 $ 14:08:55 * ehird snickers 14:08:57 I mean, 14:08:58 $ 14:08:58 stat home/eve/apple absolutely_not_cthulhu/fhtagn | grep Access | grep Uid | awk '{print $2}' # IWANTTHEPERMISSIONSDAMMIT 14:09:29 oerjan, I liked the IWC annotation today btw 14:09:40 apple: Access: like a whore! Uid: snake 14:09:51 fhtagn: Access: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 14:09:51 # awk fail 14:09:58 chown root:root home home/eve absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:10:09 # In the grim future of the universe, awk does nothing 14:10:13 $ 14:10:25 chmod ugo+x home home/eve absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:10:34 No such directory: home 14:10:35 $ 14:10:40 # Firk ding blast 14:10:41 ls 14:11:14 /captured_souls /inner_sphere_of_evil /absolutely_not_cthulhu /demonic_systematic_happenings /tools_of_torture /instruments_of_torture 14:11:14 AnMaster: yes, me too. 14:11:16 $ 14:11:30 which ls 14:11:48 /tools_of_torture/ls 14:11:49 $ 14:11:55 echo $PATH 14:12:05 $ 14:12:17 these cthulhux systems are so confusing 14:12:19 # You sure ls isn't a shell builtin then? :-P 14:12:23 env 14:12:39 SECRET_LAIR=/tools_of_torture 14:12:46 HIDDEN_COMPARTMENT=/instruments_of_torture 14:12:50 EVIL=yes 14:12:51 $ 14:12:56 export EVIL=no 14:13:03 $ 14:13:07 env | grep EVIL 14:13:12 EVIL=very yes 14:13:13 $ 14:13:19 export GOOD=yes 14:13:23 $ 14:13:23 env | grep -e EVIL -e GOOD 14:13:39 AnMaster: yes, me too. <-- XD 14:13:39 EVIL=extremely 14:13:45 GOOD=not...really, no 14:13:46 $ 14:13:58 export NEUTRAL=extremely 14:14:01 env | grep -e EVIL -e GOOD -e NEUTRAL 14:14:03 Segmentation fault 14:14:12 EVIL=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 14:14:23 brb 14:14:38 df 14:15:05 Name Used Available Mount 14:15:34 /demonic_systematic_happenings/fabric_of_'pataphysics ∞ ∞ / 14:15:35 $ 14:16:01 umount demonic_systematic_happenings/fabric_of_\'pataphysics 14:16:13 Are you sure? (y/N) 14:16:24 N 14:16:29 $ 14:16:33 # Way to confuse me there 14:16:34 umount / 14:16:47 Are you not sure? (y/N) 14:16:52 N 14:17:01 *facepalm* 14:17:05 Aren't you not not unsure about not doing that? (y/n) 14:17:23 what does logic have to do with cthulhu? 14:17:29 n 14:18:02 Permission denied 14:18:03 $ 14:18:25 ls tools_of_torture 14:18:41 whoami 14:18:41 /libevil.so /useless_cruft 14:18:45 root 14:18:46 $ 14:18:47 $ 14:19:13 chmod 777 tools_of_torture/libevil.so; rm -rf tools_of_torture/libevil.so 14:19:29 $ 14:19:48 ls tools_of_torture 14:19:54 wait 14:19:55 # Should've used -v 14:19:56 tools is binaries 14:20:02 instruments are libraries 14:20:05 It was, previously, yes :-P 14:20:09 good point 14:20:11 /libnotevil.so /useless_cruft 14:20:12 $ 14:21:07 chmod 777 tools_of_torture/libnotevil.so; rm -rfv tools_of_torture/libnotevil.so; ls tools_of_torture 14:21:28 Removing tools_of_torture/libnotevil.so 14:21:32 /useless_cruft 14:21:33 $ 14:21:44 ls instruments_of_torture 14:21:52 $ 14:22:03 rm -rfv tools_of_torture instruments_of_torture 14:22:31 tools_of_torture/useless_cruft/libnotevil.so: Permission denied 14:22:36 Removing instruments_of_torture 14:22:37 $ 14:22:54 chmod -Rv 777 / 14:22:55 # (Note: yes, this is winnable :P) 14:22:59 $ 14:23:07 # Did you miss the -v? 14:23:07 ls 14:23:27 # I'm far too lazy to write out every human being ever, dude 14:23:35 # Then summarize 14:23:42 # ls anyway 14:23:48 /a //b //c /£¢`˘ˀSegmentation fault$ 14:23:50 oops 14:23:53 /a /b /c /£¢`˘ˀSegmentation fault$ 14:24:11 # Deewiant: Operating on infinite amounts of data at once can lead to weirdness 14:24:53 ls a b c 14:25:01 $ 14:25:15 ls -al . a b c 14:25:37 0000-00-00 00:00 root root /a 14:25:40 0000-00-00 00:00 root root /b 14:25:41 0000-00-00 00:00 root root /c 14:25:45 a: 14:25:50 0000-00-00 00:00 root root . 14:25:51 0000-00-00 00:00 root root .. 14:25:52 b: 14:25:54 0000-00-00 00:00 root root . 14:25:56 0000-00-00 00:00 root root .. 14:25:57 c: 14:25:58 0000-00-00 00:00 root root . 14:26:00 rmdir a b c 14:26:00 0000-00-00 00:00 root root .. 14:26:04 # (Spot the clue!) 14:26:06 $ 14:26:08 $ 14:26:20 ls 14:26:27 $ 14:26:31 mkdir . 14:26:37 .: Directory exists 14:26:38 $ 14:26:43 mkdir .. 14:26:44 cd .. 14:26:49 $ 14:26:52 # (Swing and a miss) 14:26:52 ls 14:27:03 $ 14:27:05 pwd 14:27:11 /.. 14:27:15 $ 14:27:20 cd // 14:27:24 $ 14:27:35 alias ls 'ls -a'; ls 14:27:41 . .. 14:27:42 $ 14:27:51 pwd 14:27:54 / 14:27:55 $ 14:28:03 cd .; pwd 14:28:10 /. 14:28:11 $ 14:28:25 # Woo, slashdot 14:28:27 ls 14:28:35 /bin /absolutely_not_cthulhu /kernel /lib /home /boring_system_stuff 14:28:37 $ 14:28:54 # (No, you're not at square one) 14:28:55 $ 14:29:09 ls home 14:29:21 EEXACTLYTHESAMEASBEFORE 14:29:22 $ 14:29:31 ls absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:29:37 $ 14:29:49 rmdir absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:30:00 absolutely_not_cthulhu: No such file 14:30:01 $ 14:30:10 # Not "No such directory"? 14:30:13 ls 14:30:22 # Is this meant to be logical? 14:30:29 /how /dare /you /disturb /me /mortal 14:30:30 $ 14:30:35 cd .. 14:30:39 $ 14:30:41 ls 14:30:49 /absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:30:50 $ 14:30:55 # :-D 14:31:03 pwd 14:31:10 /./.. 14:31:11 $ 14:31:20 cd / 14:31:21 ls 14:31:39 . .. 14:31:40 $ 14:31:49 cd ..; ls 14:31:57 . .. 14:31:58 $ 14:31:59 cd ..; ls 14:32:09 .. . 14:32:10 $ 14:32:17 cd ..; ls 14:32:24 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 14:32:36 ls 14:32:42 $ 14:32:57 pwd 14:33:10 $ 14:33:16 # :-S 14:33:19 cd 14:33:26 $ 14:33:29 ls 14:33:34 $ 14:33:41 pwd 14:33:50 /root 14:33:51 $ 14:34:04 # Don't expect it to turn logical or anything, though you are nearing completion 14:34:23 # I.e. you're nearing boredom 14:34:29 cd /; ls 14:34:32 # No, I'm not bored 14:34:35 . .. 14:34:36 $ 14:34:57 cd ./../absolutely_not_cthulhu; ls 14:35:29 Things a mere mortal is not meant to know. (By this I mean EFUCKYOUIMNOTGOINGTOGOAAAAAGAINIMJUSTADIRECTORYLISTINGPROGRAM) 14:35:30 $ 14:35:42 pwd 14:35:42 # Every file is sentient here! 14:35:52 /./../absolutely_not_cthulhu 14:35:53 $ 14:35:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:35:59 which ls; ldd `which ls` 14:36:00 # hi ais523 14:36:04 # we're battling cthulhu 14:36:15 # We are? OK 14:36:20 # Okay, you are 14:36:25 # sec 14:36:26 # OK 14:36:33 /bin/ls 14:36:37 ldd: ls is statically linked 14:36:38 $ 14:36:45 cd /bin 14:36:52 echo 'are the comment characters because someone'\''s piping #esoteric into a shell script?' 14:37:11 ls cat dd ldd cthulhuise vi ... 14:37:12 $ 14:37:18 # Naw, I do think he's making it up as we go along 14:37:28 # You don't say 14:37:37 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:37:40 -!- Leonidas has joined. 14:37:41 ./... 14:38:02 # Btw, I didn't ls after cd /bin but whatever 14:38:12 ...! ...! Everybody ...! 14:38:12 $ 14:38:22 # INTRIGUING 14:38:30 ls /dev 14:38:40 ^C 14:38:41 No such file: /dev 14:38:42 $ 14:38:45 $ 14:39:03 dd if=./... of=cthulhuise bs=1 14:39:10 $ 14:39:26 ls -l ./... ./cthulhuise 14:39:43 0000-00-00 00:00 root root ... 14:39:47 0000-00-00 00:00 root root cthulhuise 14:39:48 $ 14:39:51 # Gah, no filesizes 14:39:54 # Protip: You have vi 14:40:00 # (Also wc) 14:40:04 # Also file 14:40:31 echo $PATH # Where is all this clap trap coming from 14:40:55 env # That won't work anyway 14:41:01 /bin:^lazy_ex_machina 14:41:10 PATH=/bin:^lazy_ex_machina 14:41:11 $ 14:41:21 file * 14:41:24 # (It's pretty much standard tools in thar) 14:41:38 # Except when it isn't and they don't work 14:41:45 # "GNU Male" 14:41:48 ls cat dd ldd vi: Executable 14:41:57 cthulhise ...: Script of some sort 14:42:07 # Yes, in the year 3000 gnu mail is renamed GNU Male 14:42:10 # What's your point 14:42:10 $ 14:42:27 wc -c * 14:42:54 ls: ∞ 14:42:55 cat: ∞ 14:42:56 dd: ∞ 14:42:58 ldd: ∞ 14:42:59 vi: ∞ 14:43:08 cthulhise: Some thousands and such 14:43:10 ...: Some thousands and such 14:43:11 $ 14:43:39 diff -qs ./... cthulhise 14:43:46 $ 14:43:57 # -s not working? 14:44:08 diff --version 14:44:23 Files are identical 14:44:26 Also I printed out "$" to trick you 14:44:33 # :-P 14:44:33 GNU diff "smartass edition" 14:44:34 $ 14:44:52 # Typical 14:45:05 # Are you avoiding the obvious 14:45:06 vi ./... 14:45:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:45:22 vi: Terminal unknown, starting ed 14:45:32 Welcome to Microsoft Bob's "restricted ed!" 14:46:23 (It pretty much hates you) 14:46:26 g/./ 14:46:36 ? 14:47:01 h 14:47:13 ? 14:47:18 (It only has like 5 commands) 14:47:56 I'm reading the man page for what is presumably GNU ed, I'm trying to get any kind of output here 14:48:08 Try something very, very simple 14:48:21 Those were simple :-P 14:48:28 Now I have to read about line addressing 14:48:29 But not very, very simple 14:48:37 Deewiant: No, one character will help 14:48:42 It's non-alphabetical 14:49:10 .p 14:49:24 (EONLYONECHARACTERCOMMANDSSUPPORTED) 14:49:25 ? 14:49:29 p 14:49:30 . 14:49:35 ? 14:49:42 # ... 14:49:56 ...: Some thousands and such <-- over 9000? 14:50:00 # See, this is why FUCK MS BOB ED 14:50:06 . 14:50:08 # I hate you too, Deewiant! 14:50:12 # version 0.1 14:50:22 ^D^C 14:50:25 cat ./... 14:50:26 ? 14:50:26 ? 14:50:28 ? 14:50:31 ^Z 14:50:34 ? 14:50:44 . 14:50:44 . 14:50:44 . 14:50:44 . 14:50:44 . 14:50:47 . 14:50:50 . 14:50:52 . 14:50:53 ? 14:50:53 .................................. 14:50:55 . 14:50:55 ? 14:50:55 ? 14:50:56 ? 14:50:56 ? 14:50:57 ? 14:50:57 ? 14:50:58 ? 14:51:00 ? 14:51:02 ? 14:51:04 ? 14:51:04 stop spamming? 14:51:05 # It broke? 14:51:06 ? 14:51:06 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 14:51:08 ? 14:51:17 # Protip http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:51:32 # . should still work 14:51:39 # Unless it broke 14:51:45 # EIDONTLIKESPAMMERS 14:51:50 # Also ECANWEMOVEONPLEASE 14:51:54 q 14:51:55 Q 14:51:57 ? 14:52:00 capital ? 14:52:12 ? 14:52:16 ? 14:52:19 . 14:52:27 # If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:52:28 . 14:52:33 # I repeat: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:52:46 . 14:53:18 # In case you're blind: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:53:25 # ?! 14:53:34 ? 14:53:46 I know the thing practically by heart anyway and I don't see anything particularly helpful there 14:54:15 # Remember that this OS favours the most ridiculous solution 14:54:29 I also remember that it only supports one-character commands 14:54:46 Deewiant, that isn't help. It is a joke about ed 14:54:46 # All rules are malleable if it is funnier that way 14:54:56 # clap clap, AnMaster 14:54:57 # clap clap. 14:54:58 # Screw you 14:55:01 eat flaming death 14:55:02 Deewiant, so it would help 14:55:09 Om nom nom nom nom AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 14:55:23 ls 14:55:51 ls vi cat dd ldd vi cthulhise ... 14:55:52 $ 14:55:53 ehird, what is the ubuntuish way to mount nfs? I can do it by command line, but surely ubuntu has some nice GUI way? 14:56:01 AnMaster: Connect to server in Nautilus or sth 14:56:04 cat ./... 14:56:15 ...: Directory, not a file, doofus 14:56:15 $ 14:56:19 Erm 14:56:20 reverse that 14:56:23 Also that $ was tricking you 14:56:24 $ 14:56:26 ehird, looked there, had FTP, SSH(fs), webdav, samba, but no nfs 14:56:31 # Say what? 14:56:33 ls -la 14:56:36 ^C 14:56:44 ls -laF 14:56:47 # Uhh, you copied ... to cthulhise 14:56:51 # And edited it with ed 14:56:56 # What, exactly, are you expecting 14:57:03 # Oh you cat it 14:57:07 # Right, er, let's try that again 14:57:08 ... 14:57:10 # :-P 14:57:33 # Reading comprehension for the win 14:58:11 # *disk krrrrrnks* 14:59:09 # I expect at least the "If editing this file with ed" stuff 14:59:17 # ... 14:59:18 # version 0.1 14:59:18 # Protip http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:59:18 # If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:59:18 # I repeat: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.htm 14:59:19 # In case you're blind: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:59:20 # I wonder who I'm talking to when I say: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 14:59:23 if [ "$0" = "cthulhise" ]; then 14:59:25 evil --very=yes & 14:59:27 disown 14:59:29 fi 14:59:31 echo "$0! $0! Everybody $0!" 14:59:41 # THE PLOT THICKENS 14:59:42 $ 14:59:53 # Should I know what disown is? 14:59:58 Deewiant, yes 15:00:02 # Ys 15:00:04 # Yes 15:00:10 # You may have done it as "nohup prog" instead 15:00:12 Deewiant, it is shell built in 15:00:21 # Ah, ok 15:00:22 Deewiant, try: help disown 15:00:23 in basjh 15:00:24 bash* 15:00:31 # (In zsh I usually do 'prog &!' instead 15:00:32 # ) 15:00:43 # Anyway I didn't say evil was part of /bin did I? weird 15:00:49 # No, you certainly didn't 15:00:51 which evil 15:00:58 ^lazy_ex_machina/evil 15:00:59 $ 15:01:05 # DUN DUN DUN 15:01:05 $ 15:01:10 # :-P 15:01:36 ls 15:01:45 ESAMEASBEFORE 15:01:46 $ 15:01:54 # I can't see it, I need a reminder 15:02:03 # Oh, there, nvm 15:02:12 # Still two vi's? 15:02:21 # We have two vis? 15:02:23 # We're so lucky 15:02:24 # I never noticed 15:02:31 cd "^lazy_ex_machina" 15:02:48 $ 15:02:50 # (Dunno about this shell but ^ is often a metachar) 15:02:52 ls 15:03:05 evil [[Hidden files]] 15:03:06 $ 15:03:20 ls -l 15:03:34 0000-00-00 00:00 root root evil 15:03:37 [[Hidden files]] 15:03:38 $ 15:03:52 wc -c evil 15:04:06 evil: ∞ 15:04:07 $ 15:04:29 dd if=/bin/... of=evil bs=∞ 15:04:36 $ 15:04:40 wc -c evil 15:04:49 evil: Some thousands 15:04:49 $ 15:05:04 env 15:05:16 PATH=/bin:^lazy_ex_machina 15:05:17 EVIL=partly 15:05:19 $ 15:05:21 # GASP 15:05:34 unset EVIL 15:05:44 You cannot destroy evil 15:05:50 You can only redefine evil to be yourself 15:05:53 And make yourself good 15:06:03 And if you sign up now for the Scientology starter pack, we'll AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 15:06:09 # :-D 15:06:14 export GOOD=yes 15:06:25 I said you can only make yourself good 15:06:30 Also, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 15:06:35 export EVIL=root GOOD=yes 15:06:45 You become evil. 15:06:50 MWAHAHAHAHHA GOOD? I AM NOT GOOD 15:06:51 MWAHAHA 15:06:55 Mwa$haha> 15:07:02 # wrong track, btw 15:07:04 # close tho. 15:07:07 # Hmm, would GOOD=root been a better idea? :-P 15:07:12 # +have 15:07:28 ^Uls 15:07:39 evil [[Hidden files]] 15:07:41 $ 15:07:50 env 15:08:02 PATH=/bin:^lazy_ex_machina 15:08:06 ON_THE_RIGHT_TRACK=no 15:08:07 $ 15:08:24 export ON_THE_RIGHT_TRACK=yes 15:08:32 $ 15:08:48 ls 15:08:53 evil [[Hidden files]] 15:08:54 $ 15:09:09 cd "[[Hidden files]]" 15:09:28 ESYMBOLICREPRESENTATIONNOTANACTUALFILEIAMNOTTHATDUMBALSOYOUREONTHEWRONGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 15:09:40 # Dammit 15:09:41 # That's a new one 15:09:54 ls / 15:10:19 /cthulhu_infection 15:10:20 $ 15:10:43 cd /cthulhu_infection; ls 15:10:52 your_utter_failure 15:10:52 $ 15:10:58 # Ouch 15:11:01 rm -f your_utter_failure 15:11:13 Attempting to put you on the right track... Done 15:11:14 $ 15:11:34 ls / 15:11:41 /cthulhu_infection 15:11:43 pwd 15:11:49 ^lazy_ex_machina 15:11:50 $ 15:11:50 $ 15:11:52 ls 15:11:59 evil [[Hidden files]] 15:11:59 $ 15:12:19 ./evil # Screw it 15:12:30 Starting evild... done 15:12:31 $ 15:12:39 cat evil # Y'wot? 15:12:52 # ... 15:12:52 # version 0.1 15:12:53 # Protip http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 15:12:53 # If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 15:12:53 # I repeat: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.htm 15:12:53 # In case you're blind: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 15:12:55 # I wonder who I'm talking to when I say: If editing this file with ed, see http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html 15:12:58 if [ "$0" = "cthulhise" ]; then 15:13:00 evil --very=yes & 15:13:02 disown 15:13:04 fi 15:13:06 if [ "$0" = "evil" ]; then 15:13:08 evild --start --pid=^stash/evild.pid $* 15:13:10 fi 15:13:12 echo "$0! $0! Everybody $0!" 15:13:14 $ 15:13:21 # Meh. 15:13:32 cat ^stash/evild.pid 15:13:37 666 15:13:38 $ 15:13:42 # You should win in a few commands 15:13:52 kill -9 666 15:14:03 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaoh, what a relief. 15:14:04 $ 15:14:26 export GOOD=yes 15:14:31 ^_^ 15:14:31 $ 15:14:47 rm evil `which evild` `which cthulhise` 15:14:56 $ 15:14:58 # Close 15:15:01 rm `which cthulhuise` 15:15:03 # You missed one 15:15:08 # Not sure if that was a typo back then or not 15:15:19 It was a hallucination :P 15:15:23 rm -rf /cthulhu_infection 15:15:36 evild: beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep 15:15:38 Permission denied 15:15:39 $ 15:15:40 # I told you! 15:15:40 evild --stop 15:15:43 Oops 15:15:46 no u 15:15:47 $ 15:15:54 # Do I have to spell it out to you 15:16:00 ls ^stash 15:16:01 sudo start-stop-demon --stop --exe 'evild' 15:16:07 /evild.pid 15:16:09 $ 15:16:17 cat ^stash/evild.pid 15:16:21 # note: misspelling is not intentional, but ought to have been 15:16:23 666 15:16:30 # Deewiant. Think about it. 15:16:31 $ 15:16:52 # What did you just manage to wipe out? 15:17:01 kill -9 666 15:17:15 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAthank god, wait didn't this happen before? 15:17:17 evild: Beep! 15:17:18 $ 15:17:24 # The other one 15:17:41 # Files 15:18:22 # Deewiant: You can win in a single-digit number of commands 15:18:24 # There's no more evil or evild or cthulhise... if evild restarted itself before it can't do that now; now it simply refuses to die? 15:18:42 # What happened when you copied cthulhise to evil? 15:18:54 # We got extra evil 15:19:04 # But dd just copies files wholesale 15:19:30 # Sure; I'm missing your point. Even if the original got changed it should be gone now as well 15:19:40 # Oh, fuck 15:19:43 # :) 15:19:43 rm /bin/... 15:19:47 $ 15:19:57 # (You didn't check to see what was in there :-( ) 15:20:02 kill -9 666 15:20:04 # For the record it was: 15:20:05 if [ "$0" = "..." ]; then 15:20:06 evild --constantly-replenish-just-by-being-in-the-file 15:20:06 fi 15:20:14 # heh 15:20:16 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAtell me this is the final time, otherwise I hate you. 15:20:18 evild: Beep. :) 15:20:19 $ 15:20:23 # What was the last error you got 15:20:31 # "Beep!"? 15:20:41 # Or "Permission denied" 15:20:41 # That's not an error. 15:20:55 # Yes 15:21:23 # Deewiant: And 15:21:36 # ... 15:21:44 # The error was from 15:22:03 # Presumably the shell or whatever; regardless, evild beeped so I'm assuming it was it who stopped me somehow 15:22:10 # What command 15:22:14 # rm 15:22:20 ls /cthulhu_infection 15:22:30 /evild_replenisher 15:22:31 $ 15:22:40 file /cthulhu_infection/evild_replenisher 15:22:52 evild_replenisher: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA$ 15:22:58 # Hint: The OS is multitasking 15:22:59 # Dammit :-P 15:23:26 rm /cthulhu_infection/evild_replenisher 15:23:33 evild: Bop 15:23:35 # With any luck only the dir is protected 15:23:36 Permission denied 15:23:36 # D'oh 15:23:45 # I give hints because you need to use them, dude 15:24:22 /sbin/telinit 6 15:24:54 kill -9 `pidof evild_replenisher` # This can't possibly help 15:25:06 ENOTABINARY 15:25:06 $ 15:25:24 # Yo, dude, remember how you killed evild and wiped out ...? 15:25:41 # But evild restarts before you get a prompt, and the file can't be deleted while it's running 15:25:48 # Tip: The processor is infinitely fast 15:26:03 # But is single-core 15:26:06 # I thought it never died, just beeped when I tried to kill it 15:26:10 # You fig out the rest 15:26:15 No wait 15:26:17 # Or was that another hallucination?! 15:26:17 Deewiant: You're right 15:26:19 retcon time 15:26:22 Great 15:26:23 # It's infinitely fast and dual-core 15:26:42 # I already had the while loop to kill it typed out and all when I realized that :-P 15:26:44 # And also multitasking, therefore 15:27:08 # You must... obvious 15:27:51 while ! kill -9 666 &>/dev/null; do done & while ! rm -rfv /cthulhu_infection; do done & 15:27:59 # Guess they can't hurt if it's infinitely fast 15:28:21 EOVERCOMPLICATINGTHINGSTHEREARENOTIMINGISSUESINTHISOS 15:28:23 $ 15:28:39 :(){:|:&};: 15:29:00 Deewiant: Fix that then one more command to win 15:29:25 :(){kill -9 666;:|:&}:& # ??? 15:29:29 EOVERCOMPLICATINGTHINGSTHEREARENOIMINGISSUESINTHISOST <-- I don't manage to parse the bit after the NOT (IMINGISSUESINTHISOS) 15:29:39 AnMaster: NO TIMING (...) 15:29:43 oh 15:30:01 there are not I'm in gissues in this OS 15:30:07 ENODEEWIANT 15:30:12 EYOUHADITALMOSTRIGHTBEFORE 15:30:16 EBUTWHATDOTHELOOPSHELP? 15:30:17 $ 15:30:24 # Exactly, they don't 15:30:31 # Then 15:30:41 simple 15:30:43 # Since evild is unkillable and I can't touch anything of it without its permission I'm failing to see what's doable 15:30:49 # Dual-core 15:30:56 hm 15:31:02 exorcise -9 666; 15:31:11 while ! kill -9 666 &>/dev/null; do done & while ! kill -9 666 &>/dev/null; do done & # ??? 15:31:17 # It can only stop one attempt a time? 15:31:24 # +at 15:31:27 EITOLDYOUTHATWHILESDONTHELP 15:31:27 $ 15:31:31 # In which case the forkbomb should have worked as well 15:31:40 # Technically yours should work 15:31:41 oh it's trivial 15:31:43 # But it's missing the point :P 15:31:55 kill -9 666 & kill -9 666 # ??? 15:32:04 Wait, no 15:32:06 Yours wouldn't work 15:32:06 evild: Beep. evild: Beep. 15:32:24 load a kernel module which does the thing 15:32:25 # Deewiant: Jesus christ man, a file keeps a d and the d keeps the file, and you have a dual-core processor with no timing issues 15:32:35 # it's blindingly obvious 15:32:51 # If the two things protect each other 100% and there's no way to do anything in between... it's impossible?! 15:32:58 mount --bind /dev/null /cthulu_infection -o loopback 15:33:03 # In between, yes 15:33:04 # DUAL CORE 15:33:07 I've probably messed up the syntax there 15:33:08 ais523: There was no /dev/null last I checked 15:33:15 ehird: what do you think of my solution, anyway? 15:33:19 Or /dev at all, anyway 15:33:22 Deewiant, "meanwhile" 15:33:23 ais523: evild is too smart for your mortal musings 15:33:31 Deewiant, just kill from the other cpu 15:33:33 and remove 15:33:41 AnMaster gets it right for once! 15:33:45 Say what? 15:33:45 instead of deleting the directory, rebind over it so it's inaccessible 15:33:51 Deewiant, a simple asm program making two syscalls 15:33:52 is all 15:33:53 * ais523 is determined to find an unintended solution to this 15:33:55 # No asm needed 15:34:01 ehird, sure is XD 15:34:06 ehird: it would be possible in asm, though 15:34:10 just as it can be done in C 15:34:10 # No it's not, this OS is very clever with & 15:34:17 ais523: And shell 15:34:22 meanwhile you need to hog the other CPU to prevent evild running at the same time 15:34:23 Kill from the other CPU? But I thought the thing can block anything 15:34:30 so you need to set CPU affinity as well 15:34:35 # Deewiant: (kill;rm) and (rm;kill) both fail. 15:34:39 to keep both cores busy 15:34:41 ehird, ^ 15:34:42 # Deewiant: But we have two perfectly-synchronised CPUs. 15:34:44 ehird: kill & kill also did 15:34:51 # Yes, and? 15:34:54 Deewiant: ehird's suggesting you do kill & rm 15:34:56 # They failed because the file was there 15:34:56 which is a boring solution 15:35:02 # ais523: No shit, it's also obvious 15:35:09 # He's done all the hard stuff 15:35:22 kill from one and rm from the other? 15:35:45 So that it can then block one but not the other? What happened to "infinitely fast"? 15:36:00 which CPU is evild running on, by the way? 15:36:18 # Deewiant: They're perfectly synchronised 15:36:30 # Deewiant: Also, infinitely fast, yes 15:36:32 Oh, that's what you meant by "no timing issues"? 15:36:34 # But still ordered 15:36:36 # Yes 15:36:49 # Which is why the double-kill wouldn't work 15:36:53 Maybe I should have asked for clarification as to what you meant by "timing issues" 15:37:01 # Probably 15:37:02 ehird: if they're infinitely fast, I'd be solving the Riemann Hypothesis, rather than bothering with evild 15:37:13 # ais523: It would tell you ENICETRY 15:37:25 Well, whatever 15:37:32 $ 15:37:47 incidentally, yay I wrote a Dudley's Dungeon comic that people actually like: http://alt.org/nethack/dudley/?f=2009.8.30 15:37:57 # Forgetting about the fact that by the time the fork is done the first command is finished... 15:37:58 kill -9 666 & rm -rf /cthulhu_infection 15:38:06 ais523, that thing is STILL going? 15:38:11 wait different website? 15:38:13 AnMaster: yes, people enjoy it 15:38:15 and yes, different website 15:38:18 which is why you hadn't noticed 15:38:27 the one on sadowl is also still going, but more slowly 15:38:33 ais523, I stopped reading it long long ago 15:38:36 but the original original one isn't 15:38:42 ais523, shadowl? 15:38:43 evild: BeeAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaawhat's happening? did you do it afucking gain? Oh gop! ...p! :(is it over now? evild: beeeeeeeeeex I, yawn, need some rest after that. Maybe a reboot would help. 15:38:44 $ 15:38:51 ais523, and yeah the original is all I knew about 15:38:57 /sbin/restart 15:39:05 reboot 15:39:12 Killing all processes... 15:39:15 Rebooting... 15:39:17 ... 15:39:19 Booting... 15:39:23 Starting services... 15:39:23 # ln -s /sbin/reboot /sbin/restart ; /sbin/restart 15:39:30 Booting face party program... 15:39:36 ˝| : I feel like hours just passed 15:39:39 :| 15:39:42 THE END 15:40:02 Yay hooray 15:40:07 Yay. 15:40:40 Deewiant: you just lost hours of your time 15:40:59 No, CCBI's been running at 100% CPU usage all this time 15:41:01 ais523: sadowl, btw, not shadowl 15:41:11 Deewiant: wat 15:41:13 ehird: I said sadowl, it's AnMaster who typoed it 15:41:16 Time well spent 15:41:19 ais523: Ah 15:41:22 Deewiant: What's it doing 15:41:27 AnMaster: http://sadowl.com/dudley/ 15:41:31 Undergoing benchmarking 15:41:39 Deewiant: Beating cfunge? :P 15:41:50 No, it's CCBI1, which is why it's been all this time 15:42:00 It's occasionally even slower than Language::Befunge, I've noticed 15:42:07 Deewiant, XD 15:42:10 I don't know what's going on in that hashtable implementation 15:42:14 Deewiant, thats...... impressive 15:42:15 Deewiant: What program, slowdown? 15:42:23 Nah, just simple stuff 15:42:33 erm 15:42:34 how simple 15:42:43 The current one, which took 8966 seconds, is a 6000*6000 square of > and v and ^ ending in f.@ 15:42:49 Ouch 15:42:56 IIRC cfunge takes about 30 seconds on it 15:43:07 Far too long! 15:43:14 I agree ;-) 15:43:14 Deewiant, care to filebin it? 15:43:21 and I'll have a look at it 15:43:25 AnMaster: No, but I can pastebin the script that generates it 15:43:36 Deewiant, ok would work if it is deterministic 15:43:48 Wow, it was only about one and a half hours that took 15:43:52 well ok, more like 1+45 minutes 15:44:00 still, felt like much longer 15:44:02 AnMaster: http://funge.pastebin.com/f5c673a86 15:44:18 ehird: The issue is how it does mem allocation 15:44:29 It goes up to over 2 gigs quite quickly 15:44:32 I meant 15:44:34 the game 15:44:41 Deewiant, I think increasing the size of the static area would be the way to go 15:44:47 Then it starts allocating at a rate of about 16M every minute or so 15:44:50 Yes, AnMaster 15:44:53 Have a 6000x6000 static area 15:45:10 for obvious reasons this would be bad 15:45:17 I /will/ increase the sizes to get out of your damn static areas, no matter how big you make them :-P 15:45:26 Deewiant, dynamic static areas? 15:45:27 hm 15:45:30 sounds interesting 15:45:35 Did I say that? 15:45:47 Battling to write a program cfunge is slow on is basically battling against a very slow form of hardcoding the output 15:45:55 heh 15:45:59 detecting a lot of static area misses... using mmap() and grow static area 15:45:59 No worries 15:46:00 hm 15:46:04 sounds like a nice idea 15:46:13 There are 1*100000000 benchmarks as well 15:46:15 AnMaster: thinking oxymorons are a nice idea since forever 15:46:25 And I doubt he'll make it that big by default ;-) 15:46:33 ehird, well static area would be the wrong term yes 15:46:33 Or will he 15:46:43 AnMaster: Do you know what dynamic static areas are called? 15:46:43 100000000^2 is a lot of integers 15:46:44 AREAS 15:46:57 ehird, nah. Arenas here 15:46:59 clearly 15:47:08 That wasn't even funny, meaningful or anything 15:47:11 I will summarily ignore it 15:47:26 ehird, it wasn't supposed to be funny... 15:47:37 it was supposed to be meaningful though 15:48:00 You only ever say "clearly" when you're attempting to be funny, AnMaster. 15:48:16 ehird, if so I wasn't aware of it 15:48:27 but no I wasn't meaning to be funny 15:48:35 Maybe it's your subconscious valiantly trying to save you from your awfulness. 15:48:40 By blotting out awareness. 15:48:53 I was thinking about pyalloc's areans 15:49:03 anyway... it isn't like I would have time to implement this any time soon 15:49:51 That was the worst reference ever 15:50:00 You should feel bad. 15:50:04 ehird, it wasn't supposed to be _funny_ at all 15:50:09 .... 15:50:10 And 15:50:31 ehird, I was thinking it would be an appropriate name for 2D areas here. 15:51:31 Deewiant, still... my hash library is far from slow so meh 15:53:00 Deewiant, what language was that paste in... 15:53:18 D 15:53:20 D v2 15:53:24 oh wait it says perl 15:53:25 right 15:53:38 And here I was trying to save Deewiant from the endless barrage of questions about the program 15:54:08 :-P 15:54:25 what's the subject of discussion? 15:54:41 cfunge being microoptimised for one program yet again 15:54:42 http://funge.pastebin.com/f5c673a86 and cfunge? 15:54:52 Deewiant, it prints a single char? 15:55:09 $ARGV[0] not enough of a hint? 15:55:11 Give it an argument 15:55:23 It should print 4 chars without any arguments, though 15:55:26 Deewiant, ok I should have given it a longer name than t.pl? 15:55:32 argv0 is program name after all 15:55:36 Not in perl it isn't 15:55:47 In perl it's like you C folks' argv[1] 15:55:52 ehird: the number of Befunge programs is sufficiently small that you could probably micro-optimise for each of them individually 15:56:00 AnMaster is a master of turning his brain off intentionally whenever he is faced with a language he hasn't given purposeful effort to lear 15:56:01 n 15:56:20 Deewiant, what is program name then? 15:56:25 I don't know 15:56:30 oh ok 15:56:34 $0 15:56:35 Ask ais523 or fizzie, they know Perl 15:56:47 Or get an answer from ehird, that works too 15:56:50 Deewiant, so who wrote that program? 15:56:54 I did 15:56:56 Mike Riley 15:56:57 Using much googling 15:56:59 AnMaster: C's argv[0] is Perl's $0, C's argv[1] is Perl's $ARGV[0] 15:57:09 ais523, ah 15:57:09 ais523: No it's not, C predates Perl 15:57:12 It was originally in shell script 15:57:13 -!- Asztal has joined. 15:57:14 You mean the other way around 15:57:22 ehird: I'm using "is" in the sense of "means the same thing" 15:57:26 not in the sense of "was based on" 15:57:27 But it turns out that doing 3000000 echoes is slow as shit 15:57:31 my relation is commutative 15:57:32 I'm trying to be as stupid as AnMaster to see what it's like 15:57:44 Sorry if it inconveniences anyone else :P 15:57:45 I understood it 15:57:52 but what language was perl originally coded in then? 15:58:00 Perl. 15:58:09 Sussman wrote the first Perl implementation, in Perl. 15:58:17 Then another was written in Ada to execute the first one. 15:58:19 ehird, self interpreters are nice, but you need something to bootstrap it 15:58:20 (by Larry Wall) 15:58:34 I do think it was in C :-P 15:58:37 ehird: blatant lying is probably not a good idea 15:58:44 I think the first impl was Larry Wall's C impl perl1 15:58:50 ais523: It is when faced with someone who is both stupid and unable to use google 15:58:59 so perl doesn't predate C then :P 15:59:06 I... never said that. 15:59:16 [15:57] ehird: ais523: No it's not, C predates Perl 15:59:18 You're dumb, btw. 15:59:20 oh right 16:00:20 I misread the order 16:00:44 Deewiant, use a better hash table btw 16:00:59 Deewiant, it can't be too hard to implement one yourself 16:01:00 I'd rather not update CCBI1 more 16:01:01 Yes sir 16:01:03 well yes it can 16:01:14 There's one in Tango which would probably be better 16:01:17 but that's beside the point 16:01:37 Deewiant, what one do you use now then? 16:01:42 The D builtin one 16:01:45 ah 16:02:02 Which I guess also comes from Tango though 16:02:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu"). 16:02:13 AAAAAA 16:02:14 I just clicked it 16:02:15 Halp 16:02:22 heh 16:02:31 I never have visited TV Tropes 16:02:35 The trick with TV Tropes is to read it all 16:02:41 Then you won't get stuck again 16:02:45 Deewiant, XD 16:02:53 I tried that, didn't work 16:02:56 I forgot half the pages 16:02:57 :P 16:03:03 Okay, s/read/read and remember/ 16:03:08 I remember that one, for instance :-P 16:03:14 Deewiant, the trick is to set a CSS to hide the links 16:03:23 In your IRC client? 16:03:44 Deewiant, no when you clicked 16:03:49 Deewiant: if you use Chatzilla, you could 16:04:04 Yes, and probably in several others too 16:04:05 On the other hand you'd have to use chatzilla 16:04:10 Exactly :-P 16:04:17 -!- ehird has left (?). 16:04:20 -!- ehird has joined. 16:04:24 I did that just to see if it would work 16:04:27 why did I do that? 16:04:30 I know it works! 16:04:35 What? 16:04:40 Cmd-W to leave 16:04:46 heh 16:06:44 Meh, I should just benchmark the fast interpreters and forget about these slow ones 16:07:05 Spoiler: cfunge wins 16:07:44 That's not the only kind of result one can get :-P 16:08:02 Deewiant: True... until the next cfunge release. 16:08:23 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:08:24 I didn't mean that somebody else would win 16:08:37 I meant that the type of data is not only "X wins" 16:08:47 true, you could make a pie chart 16:08:49 hmm, no 16:08:56 you wouldn't have enough pixels for the non-cfunge segments 16:08:58 I've been plotting memory usage vs. time 16:09:56 With the memory usage and time data gathered on different runs, but anyway; it's scientific! 16:12:21 why can't you measure on the same run? 16:12:27 magic 16:12:37 I can, I just didn't 16:13:16 I'd rather the time measurements are separate, since the mem measurer uses up CPU by itself 16:13:48 Do you know who else uses CPU by herself 16:13:50 Hitler 16:14:09 I could of course save time measurements for the memory run as well to get more accurate plots, I just haven't 16:23:00 Dashik 16:23:27 Dashik? 16:23:46 DASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIk 16:23:54 OK 16:26:19 Spoiler: cfunge wins 16:26:19 That's not the only kind of result one can get :-P 16:26:19 Deewiant: True... until the next cfunge release. 16:26:23 jitfunge? 16:26:34 well, it wouldn't manage well on that grid thingy 16:26:40 Will never be completed 16:26:42 since it only runs any code once it seems 16:26:46 ehird, true 16:27:48 I've been plotting memory usage vs. time <-- cfunge would use a large amount of RAM compared to time 16:27:51 definitely 16:28:05 it easily hits 10 MB or so for the "baseline" iirc 16:28:06 AnMaster: Not at all, compared to L::B and CCBI1 :-P 16:28:17 Deewiant, interesting... 16:28:36 Further proving cfunge's perfect superiority! 16:28:58 In the end all three use a fairly similar amount of memory, of course, since they all use hashtables of ints 16:29:29 Doesn't a 32-bit funge only need 4GB- wait, no, that's 16-bit 16:29:34 32-bit would need (large)GB 16:29:44 That's a point 16:29:53 (large)GB for what 16:29:56 an N-bit funge needs an (N*2)-bit address space 16:30:03 Yep 16:30:03 Deewiant: Storing the whole of fungespace 16:30:14 Yeah, don't do that :-P 16:30:20 exactly 16:30:32 Anyway, that means a conformant funge MUST be (cpubits/2)-bit or less 16:30:34 ehird, isn't it 2^32 * 2^32 even 16:30:39 That's bothersome 16:30:59 oh wait 16:31:05 that is 2^(32+32) 16:31:06 duh 16:33:23 http://xkcdsuckssuxsuckssux.blogspot.com/ 16:33:35 (Yes, all the previous chains exist) 16:33:41 Also http://xkcdsuckscommentboxsucks.blogspot.com/ 16:33:56 And http://xkcdisaparagonofhilarity.blogspot.com/ and http://xkcdisaparagonofhilaritysucks.blogspot.com/ 16:37:02 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:38:08 -!- coppro has joined. 16:40:11 http://imgur.com/j9wrB.jpg 16:40:28 Insert esolang-related joke 16:40:30 I know there is one 16:40:34 I just can't think of a a decent one right now 16:42:08 "Emmissions" 16:47:05 A typo 16:47:06 shocking 16:47:16 In an infographic from the internet no less 16:48:47 I know 16:48:56 How dare they put a typo in my Internet 16:50:01 http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/documentation/ 16:50:02 Oh my god <3 16:50:12 Scheme + live coding + 3d + based on audio + stuff = too cool 16:51:21 In effect, we conjure the spirits of the synthesizer with our spells? 16:51:36 In this case, the synthesizer conjures the spirits of the 3d cubes with its spells 16:53:36 It's just great 16:54:30 Now it's turned into a waggling cube penis. 16:54:41 Okay now THAT'S cool 16:55:45 So pretty 16:55:53 Haha, the blur blurs the editor too 16:56:51 This would make a good video for the track 17:17:14 http://www.neatorama.com/2007/01/18/cthulhu-buns/ 17:17:49 AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 17:17:56 $ 17:17:56 :P 17:21:44 "Chinese workers have covered a giant steel bridge with butter because officials are fed up with traffic jams caused by people who slow down to watch suicide victims leaping to their death." 17:21:49 I love the justification ther 17:21:49 e 17:21:58 They don't care about the actual suicides, hell no! 17:22:36 "and we put up special fences and notices asking people not to commit suicide here" 17:22:48 "Out of consideration for others, please kill yourself in your own home!" 17:22:51 ehird: why would covering it with butter help? 17:23:00 [[Bridge guard Wong Man said: "The butter makes the bars and frames slippery and hard to climb onto, and we can easily catch them."]] 17:23:21 "Move along now, there's another bridge to jump off, I'm sure" 17:25:18 ehird: Deewiant: SICP even has graphics stuff? <<< it has the picture language 17:25:26 like turtle stuff? 17:25:28 vague memory of tha 17:25:28 t 17:25:30 no 17:25:37 what then 17:25:39 Circles and stuff, right? 17:25:42 it's a language where you can compose pictures. 17:25:50 that's turtle to me 17:25:51 Yeah, combinators and whatnot 17:25:54 if it's simplistic 17:25:57 :P 17:25:59 "language", basically you have picture objects and combinators for them 17:26:03 turtle, huh. 17:26:08 i disagree 17:26:16 Turtle stuff is LOGO, which is a bit more simplistic 17:26:19 :P 17:26:27 turtle stuff is imperative 17:26:35 gah scheme is beautiful 17:26:38 LIKE A FLOWER 17:26:48 you should read sicp, ehird 17:26:48 wish plt was less crappy on os x tho 17:27:02 oklofok: it's so much more fun trolling people about it having not read it 17:27:41 you *have* read it though, right? 17:28:06 If he says "having not read it", presumably he then hasn't read it 17:28:18 but... i really thought he had read it 17:28:33 :D 17:28:34 that's probably part of the reason i took the time to read it 17:28:36 I thought we'd established that you tend to be detached from reality 17:28:39 see, it's great to do long-term trolling things 17:28:41 because even ehrd had 17:28:43 *ehird 17:28:44 because you shatter people's minor illusions 17:28:49 oklofok: is it any good :P 17:29:17 i found it rather good 17:29:32 i rarely read longform programming stuff 17:29:39 i'm much more of a hypertexty, contexty person 17:29:45 too little math, but the code is sexy 17:29:59 well obviously, it's by the Sussman 17:31:38 -!- oklofog has joined. 17:31:56 oklofog: I can't see through you 17:33:20 I guess oklofog's just condensed oklowater. 17:33:53 oklowtr 17:33:57 t is totally a verb 17:33:58 erm 17:33:58 vowel 17:35:27 -!- oklofog has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:35:45 -!- oklofog has joined. 17:36:23 -!- oklofog has changed nick to oklovar. 17:36:34 oklovar = oklowtr 17:37:09 should probably be "vor" 17:37:16 i can't believe you haven't read sicp 17:37:34 have you read rwh? not sure you even started, but i assumed that too :P 17:37:35 oklovar: are you just sitting there gawping 17:37:38 HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING, EVER? 17:37:42 i started to read rwh then stopped 17:37:51 i started to read anything then stopped HUR HUR 17:38:01 Oklowaßer. Except I guess they wouldn't spell it with ß at least nowadays. 17:38:05 actually I can't read. 17:38:08 I use a screenreader 17:38:13 BECAUSE I'M BLIND 17:38:27 would be pretty cool if you just never learned to read 17:38:40 oklovar: that is what is known as being a retard :P 17:39:07 or a dude who sticks to his priorities 17:39:34 i think it'd be very hard to not learn to read 17:39:36 accidentally 17:40:12 I CAN'T BELIVE YOUR NOT HAVING READ IT BELIEVE 17:40:20 :D 17:40:25 I can't believe ehird's not butter! 17:40:27 oklovar: you ARE just sitting there in amazement are you 17:40:29 *aren't 17:41:05 i am. too tired to read, but i don't want to sleep 17:41:14 you are all that's left 17:41:15 you can't read now 17:41:17 BY PROXY 17:41:47 err because you don't or what? 17:43:13 maybe i'll just read a *little* bit 17:45:42 i can't believe.... 17:47:29 oklovar: :D 17:50:04 i could've been a fine computational geometrician in the 1970's, for instance, i invented quadtrees and kd-trees in the same order as they appeared irl, and with about the same interval 17:50:18 or is it geometrist 17:50:25 OR COULD YOU 17:50:26 Quadtrees don't take much creativity 17:50:27 -!- ehird has left (?). 17:50:29 someone should invent hexadecitrees for storing 4D data 17:50:35 -!- ehird has joined. 17:50:36 oops 17:50:39 -!- ehird has left (?). 17:50:44 -!- ehird has joined. 17:50:49 someone should invent hexadecitrees for storing 4D data <--- all you missed 17:50:49 I have two windows focused at once 17:50:52 how the fuck does that work 17:50:56 ehird: no idea 17:51:02 Glitchily, is the answer :P 17:51:11 I've seen it happen on computer games with homebrew OSes, but not on real OSes before 17:51:21 Deewiant: i "invented" them as a quick hack to make collision queries faster 17:51:27 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:51:30 half the glitches in the original Pokémon were that sort of thing 17:51:35 kd-trees were what i did after learning what data structures were 17:51:47 xD 17:52:14 -!- Pthing has joined. 17:53:05 ais523: i'm fairly sure the original papers about quadtrees have "can obviously be extended to any amount of dimensions" 17:53:13 yes, probably 17:53:17 but have they been named? 17:53:35 there are quadtrees and oct-trees, after all 17:53:59 s/oct-/oc/ 18:06:35 "Results 1 - 3 of 3 for hexadectree." 18:07:07 "-- produce the same result as one hexadectree refinement step, where a hexadectree is the generalization of an octree to four dimension --" 18:07:11 At least someone's named it. 18:07:40 Not very common, but still more common than a hexadec*i*tree; "Results 1 - 2 of about 0 for hexadecitree." 18:08:19 "1 - 2 of about 0" :D 18:09:30 Okay, so 2 out of the 3 are from the same paper, "Hierarchical Representation of Time-varying Volume Data with ∜2 Subdivision and Quadrilinear B-spline Wavelets". 18:11:02 ∜ 18:11:09 is that a single character? 18:11:17 Define "character" 18:11:26 as in, not a combining+regular 18:11:48 U+221C FOURTH ROOT 18:14:12 Oh, I thought that was sqrt a 18:14:15 well, a sqr 18:14:16 t 18:14:18 not 4 18:14:35 You didn't see the 4? :-P 18:16:51 Yes. Maybe I should've added a combining overline to the 2, like ∜2̅. 18:18:17 I can't seem to find combining numbers, even though I think I've seen those. Must've been dreaming. There's quite a lot of combining latin letters, though. 18:19:49 The font's too small 18:19:51 it looked like a weird a 18:21:56 still kinda weird to believe 18:22:06 "weird to believe"? 18:22:13 kinda weird to say 18:22:17 The upper/lower-half symbols are funny. Like the sum: 18:22:18 ⎲ 18:22:18 ⎳ 18:24:43 Or the integral, which has a separate extension-bar and all. 18:24:43 ⌠ 18:24:43 ⎮ x ⅆx 18:24:43 ⌡ 18:25:14 That shows up all holey here 18:25:20 Same here. 18:25:39 And the differential sign (I guess?) next to the x is just a box 18:26:07 That's U+2146 double-struck italic small d, "sometimes used for the differential". I wanted something a bit out of the ordinary there. 18:27:53 heh 18:28:07 Deewiant, "all holey"? 18:28:12 you mean you can't see them? 18:28:15 I can see both perfectly 18:28:34 No, I mean it was riddled with holes 18:28:34 And only the integral 18:28:55 ah well yes it doesn't fit together here. Neither does 18:28:57 bbl food 18:29:08 The sum seems to, here 18:41:32 -!- ehird has quit. 18:54:01 From the spam folder: You can▓t even complain about our watches √ they are perfect. 18:54:12 interesting chars 18:57:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:03:39 ℱ⁻¹, the inverse Fourier transform. 19:03:49 For the record, I had holes in both the sum and the integral. 19:08:56 http://imgur.com/a2RFE.jpg 19:24:50 -!- ehird has joined. 19:26:03 Neither fit together due to (a) fonts, (b) line height 19:26:44 ehird: they fit together on a DOS console 19:26:51 I know this from experience 19:27:04 DOS does unicode 19:27:05 ? 19:27:17 no, those characters are, amazingly, in the default 256-char character set 19:27:25 ah 19:27:28 well that's to be expected 19:27:31 spreadsheets and the like 19:27:50 presumably that's why they're in unicode in the first place 19:28:06 no, unicode just wants to have everything 19:28:10 indeed 19:28:13 which includes being able to do plaintext mathematics 19:28:27 A two-line sum was in CP437? 19:28:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cp437 has the possibly most famous DOS charset. I don't think it has a sum. 19:28:33 although only two lines for sum seems od 19:28:34 d 19:28:44 There's the top and bottom for integral, and a single-character sigma. 19:28:45 It has a one-line sum in the form of capital sigma 19:28:47 even, with any luck, Tengwar and Cirth 19:28:48 either line you put the expression, it's unbalanced 19:29:06 fizzie: ah, no, but it has the integral as 244,245 19:29:41 Anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cp850 is what we mostly saw, since cp437 lacks the åäö chars. 19:29:46 you can always do a single sigma with sub/superscript indices 19:29:49 11:08:56 http://imgur.com/a2RFE.jpg 19:29:49 one of my first thoughts was "that laptop is unreasonably thick" :P 19:32:25 The Unicode ☺ (at least in this font) doesn't much look like the mostly-rectangular face I'm used to; the one that's in the picture on the cp437 wiki-page. 19:32:51 The cp437 is :D anyway 19:33:17 ♪, ♫. It's nice. 19:33:41 And the double exclamation point, ‼. 19:33:55 Which looks identical to !! in this font 19:33:58 As in, pixel-for-pixel 19:34:19 ehird: they look very different in this font 19:34:28 different spacing, different height 19:34:29 But takes one byte less! Well, except that it's three bytes in UTF-8. 19:34:33 Is it your font or your kerner 19:34:57 Deewiant: not sure 19:35:05 the kerner here is pretty aggressive, though 19:35:28 That was more at ehird, since it seems odd that the characters themselves would be identical 19:35:58 I'm pretty sure it's identical in Lucida Grande, although really, OS X's kerner is so perfect that I couldn't point out if it was 19:36:08 *they're; not it's 19:36:15 fizzie: CP437 has åäö. 19:36:15 They are literally pixel-identical. 19:36:58 Deewiant: You're right. Why, then, did we bother with cp850? 19:37:09 Did we? I don't think I did :-P 19:38:13 "keyb su,850,c:\dos\keyboard.sys" is I think what some autoexec.bat said. 19:38:40 I always just used "keyb su,," 19:43:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:43:26 Hi :-) 19:43:42 you crazy people who actually used DOS 19:44:29 What's wrong with DOS? 19:44:47 did I say there's anything wrong with DOS? 19:45:39 No, you just called us crazy for using it. What's wrong with us? 19:45:39 http://www.freedos.org/ 19:45:48 I rarely use it nowadays 19:45:53 impomatic: Firstly, 19:45:54 but I prefer it to Windows 19:45:58 "used", past tense 19:46:03 Secondly, there was context 19:46:10 Thirdly, for the record, DOS is awful 19:47:51 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:47:59 Well that upset him 19:48:48 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:50:00 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 19:50:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:50:21 wb impomatic 19:51:58 Thanks, gf made me restart net :-( 19:52:46 http://www.rntz.net/files/arc3.1.patch 19:52:47 ITT: Paul Graham and friends fix the fact that Arc doesn't work on MzScheme 4, because conses are immutable, by writing low-level pointer/memory hackery to directly modify them. Among every other obvious objection to this ridiculous, ridiculous change is that there's no damn guarantee that the *immutable* pairs will even be *mutable* in memory in the future. 19:53:48 what is Arc? 19:53:49 conses are immutable? 19:53:56 Is that allowed in R6RS or something? 19:54:06 Yes. 19:54:14 Deewiant: It's a PLT-specific change. 19:54:16 If I recall correctly, anyway. 19:54:27 Presumably there's a "mutable-cons"? 19:54:27 ais523: I'm going to assume you don't know who Paul Graham is either 19:54:31 Deewiant: Yes. 19:54:33 ehird: no, I don't 19:54:45 ais523: I really don't have the hours to explain to you, so let me summarise it: 19:54:48 I can certainly tell from your description that that patch is a very bad idea, though 19:55:03 Presumably it's a pain in the butt to use cons everywhere except MzScheme 19:55:06 R6RS has http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs-lib/r6rs-lib-Z-H-18.html#node_chap_17 19:55:13 Deewiant: So set the language to r5rs or whatever in mzscheme 19:55:18 Scheme isn't really portable 19:55:47 True enough 20:00:09 ais523: Paul Graham is a guy who got rich from a terrible web application in the 90s that was bought out by Yahoo, ViaWeb (now Yahoo Stores, although it doesn't use his code anymore). Basically, he got lucky. It happened to be written in Lisp, so he then promptly became a blowhard, writing a bunch of stupid essays about how using Lisp will make you rich, hackers are basically like painters because I'm both and we're both hyper-intelligent and so on and so fo 20:00:09 These were, of course, massively popular. He then started Y Combinator, a venture capital that funded reddit and others. He took five years to construct his language, Arc, based on the oh-so-stupid principle of "if we give everything short names and make them only work to do exactly what I want them to do and have no flexibility whatsoever, my language will be expressive and short". He had the hubris to call Arc a "hundred-year language", despite it not supp 20:00:11 Unicode and coming with the ability to produce basically nothing that isn't a trivial web app using tables for layout and dumps of Arc data in flatfiles for a database. After these laborious five years, accompanied of course by epic dosages of hype along the way, he released a few-thousand line compiler written in Scheme that compiled Arc to Scheme, even going so far as to use MzScheme's parser - a work trivial beyond comprehension. He defended this by sayin 20:00:17 writing the code was easy, it was just figuring out what to write that took so long. The obvious rebuttal is that it's a stupid, tiny language that consists of a meagre standard library with short names and a small continuation-based combined web server/framework that encourages using tables for layout, and a retarded monkey could come up with that in a few minutes. 20:00:25 You're welcome. 20:01:10 on average, is it more or less expressive than INTERCAL? 20:01:28 Uhh, more. Also, it seems my client cut off some characters from the ends of its automatically-split lines. 20:01:31 But you can figure it out trivially. 20:01:35 *them, not it 20:01:43 yes, I did 20:02:09 Your messages, they were mostly cut in twain. "and so f", "it not sup", "this by sayi". 20:02:15 Ah. 20:02:20 I didn't know Mark Twain did that. 20:02:49 You must've somehow post-dated that comment about it, I didn't see it at all. 20:03:03 I posted it on a date, yes. 20:05:26 -!- impomatic has quit ("mov.i #1,1"). 20:09:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:10:37 impomatic: You are the master of the bounce 20:13:07 * impomatic has quit ("mov.i #1,1") <-- hnu 20:13:11 hnuh* 20:13:11 ? 20:14:04 Hnuh is not a pronounceable word. 20:14:26 the u is silent 20:14:30 He quit using his usual quit message? 20:15:12 Deewiant, well maybe, but what does that asm bit do? 20:16:33 I had to restart the net again. My gf can't connect and isn't happy about it! 20:16:50 mov.i #1,1 is an imp in Corewar 20:17:38 impomatic, ah 20:17:44 impomatic, what does it do though? 20:18:10 It's an imp 20:18:55 When it executes, it copies itself over the next location in memory. 20:19:12 and that's the next location that executes 20:19:17 it's basically a minimal SMITH-style loop 20:19:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:20:39 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 20:20:54 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:26:11 ehird, you know those google "frontends"? like lmgify and such 20:26:18 Yes. 20:26:18 I was googling and found a very silly one 20:26:23 (*lmgtfy) 20:26:24 http://www.cthuugle.com/en/ 20:26:47 That's not a google frontend. 20:26:57 That's a topic-specific search engine that looks like google. 20:27:03 ehird, well I didn't try it. it looks like one though 20:27:05 and hm yeah 20:33:35 -!- Hiato has joined. 20:43:36 http://cchronicles.com/ 20:44:09 http://cchronicles.com/files/114018167ba946835827b8e6ad733f09-20.html promises amusement 20:44:16 " 20:44:17 A look at a variety of interesting programming languages being used for personal computers. Included are demonstrations of Microsoft's Office 2000 Developer, LEGO Mindstorms RCX Code Developer, Macromedia Flash 3.0, and Metrowerks CodeWarrior." 20:47:44 Oh man, the top one is RISC 20:47:47 RISC! 20:47:51 RISC will solve everything! 20:47:59 RISC will make your grandma come back to life! 20:48:04 RISC will speed up your computer 5000% 20:48:06 RISC!!! 20:48:06 :-P 20:48:19 I read that as "RISC will speed up your grandma 5000%" 20:48:24 THAT ALSO 20:48:41 http://cchronicles.com/files/3b442913b12648d4179b6f5736263c5f-64.html 20:48:41 The first one here is... so small 20:48:47 The keys are smaller than a finger 20:49:26 Wow that intro 20:49:37 I'm always surprised when the 80s are, well, stereotypically 80s 20:50:12 "No keyboard" 20:50:17 iPhone 1989 20:50:28 yeah yeah more like the newton shut up 20:50:36 :-P 20:53:13 "What we have with the CodeWarrior software is we have a website that comes with the software" 20:54:11 Oh noes, the CodeWarrior guy is double-clicking on links in IE 5 20:54:34 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 20:54:42 Wow 20:54:44 the laptops video 20:54:48 mentions the dynabook 20:54:52 :D 20:55:24 Hmph, it has videos as late as 1996 20:55:36 The one I linked to is 1999 20:55:38 I think at a certain point in the 90s computers stopped being awesomely retro and just became boring 20:55:49 Deewiant: Well yeah, which is even worse 20:59:42 -!- MizardX has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:59:42 -!- SimonRC has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:00:08 -!- MizardX has joined. 21:00:51 http://www.archive.org/details/computerchronicles has the same content with a different design 21:01:13 Oh dear 21:01:47 "The programming challenges in the Internet era are about things like adding cool graphics, animations, sounds and activity to your web site" 21:03:01 And they have Flash pages with background music, of course 21:03:10 Deewiant: The blog just embeds from archive.or 21:03:11 g 21:03:24 But the UI is nicer 21:03:25 ehird: Yep 21:04:45 -!- SimonRC has joined. 21:11:57 computers, huh 21:12:01 yes. 21:12:22 -!- oklovar has changed nick to okloFLOP. 21:12:22 -!- okloFLOP has changed nick to oklopol. 21:13:08 cool graphics and activity are serious business 21:13:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:14:25 AAAAAA <- BWAHAHAHAHA 21:14:35 Context? :P 21:14:45 I just clicked it 21:14:55 huh 21:14:56 ? 21:14:58 ehird: TV Tropes 21:15:02 Ah 21:15:04 You forgot already? :-P 21:19:52 [[Bridge guard Wong Man said: "The butter makes the bars and frames slippery and hard to climb onto, and we can easily catch them."]] 21:19:52 Yes. 21:20:02 Ooh, another Paul Graham gem: 21:20:07 [[The News server currently crashes a couple times a day when it runs 21:20:08 out of memory. All the comments and stories no longer fit in the 2 GB 21:20:08 we can get on a 32 bit machine.]] 21:20:10 "Because what is a disk" 21:20:19 ok that _is_ a bit better than the stereotype my prejudices assumed ;D 21:20:41 oerjan: ? 21:20:45 (i.e. that they would do it so the suiciders would slip off the bridge faster) 21:20:48 :D 21:20:56 Whoopsy daisy! 21:24:14 butter daisy, presumably 21:26:33 -!- Azstal has joined. 21:26:59 http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~jostein/qupload/files/slackware.jpg ;; This isn't fair, the screenshot is from Windows 3.1. Slackware might even be as advanced as NT 3.51! 21:29:22 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 21:37:50 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:39:24 -!- svarg has joined. 21:39:25 hi 21:39:28 anyone familiar with pre-c 21:39:30 was it from cobol 21:44:03 eh? 21:44:36 Hnuh is not a pronounceable word. 21:44:58 yeah that h at the end is awkward 21:45:22 (so say all good norsemen) 21:45:43 (while playing hnefatafl) 21:46:04 ehird no idea? 21:46:23 svarg: first, what's pre-c, secondly, what does "was it from cobol" mean? 21:46:28 svarg: c came from b, which came from bcpl 21:46:43 which came from cpl iirc 21:46:56 pre-c is presumably a language 21:46:58 of some sort 21:46:59 although there is more than one language called cpl, also iirc 21:47:11 svarg: do you mean what languages came before C? 21:47:18 direct predecessors, or just every language before C? 21:47:22 CPL came from Algol-60 21:47:32 ah. 21:47:42 Algol-60 came from Algol-58 21:47:45 ;-P 21:47:57 Algol came from Lisp and Fortran 21:48:15 (I think, at least) 21:48:21 Not much from Lisp, I don't think 21:48:26 Nope 21:48:28 Quite a bit 21:48:32 It may have been somewhat influenced by Fortran 21:48:34 Algol has some weird shit 21:48:48 well, fortran was the "general language"t ehn 21:48:50 *then 21:48:56 Fortran was 1957, Algol and Lisp were both 1958 21:49:06 well 21:49:10 McCarthy did Algol too 21:49:22 Note that Algol 58 sucked 21:49:26 Nothing like 60, really 21:49:46 Anyway, Lisp came out of LSD and Fortran and Fortran came out of, like, autocode 21:49:57 And Autocode came out of someone's ass 21:50:04 The end 21:50:18 :-P 21:50:27 ehird: LSD + lambda calculus, surely? 21:50:29 night 21:50:45 Lisp has not that much to do with the lambda calculus, really 21:50:46 Do you say "night" to the other 500 channels you've been idling on as well? 21:50:58 Deewiant: He probably has a (configurable) script to do it. 21:50:58 ehird: ok, *broken* lambda calculus 21:51:20 I know that I absolutely must know when AnMaster goes to sleep. 21:51:21 maybe the LSD had something to do with that... 21:51:24 I basically plan my day around him. 21:51:57 i thought he was a bit early tonight 21:52:19 maybe he has early classes tomorrow 21:52:41 (while playing hnefatafl) <-- hm? XD 21:52:50 oerjan, you made that up really? 21:52:55 AnMaster: Okay, you know what? Say goddamn "night" all the time 21:52:57 As long as it means 21:53:02 I AM ACTUALLY GOING TO TRY AND GO TO BED NOW 21:53:02 and not 21:53:05 AnMaster: no, it's a real norse game 21:53:08 HERE I AM GOING TO SAY A WORD NOW AND THEN STAY HERE 21:53:59 * oerjan confesses to sometimes saying good night, quitting, and then keeping on browsing the web in the other window 21:54:19 At least you quit 21:54:26 (well the good night is in the quit message, usually) 21:54:28 AnMaster's "night" seems to mean "I double dare you to ping me. Come on. Come on, ping me. You're not going to ping me? I'll just say something anyway." 21:54:40 Or perhaps "Hey, I observe that it is night time." 21:54:46 That would make sense, sort of 21:54:54 whats b+ oerjan 21:55:03 svarg: could you try typing in complete sentences? 21:55:15 It sort of takes a few more seconds for you and saves all of us seconds of head scratching 21:55:20 I have no idea what you just said 21:55:27 AnMaster: it was just the first norse word i could think of starting with hn (ok, maybe the only one) 21:56:12 svarg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(programming_language) 21:56:14 b+ was after B language 21:56:20 i mean predecessor to c 21:56:24 hm never heard of it 21:56:31 predecessor to c+ 21:56:33 b+ 21:56:39 svarg: are you trolling 21:56:40 there's no c+ 21:56:41 nor b+ 21:56:44 i thought B was directly before C 21:56:50 it is 21:57:19 c++ 21:57:27 oerjan, how do you pronounce it? 21:57:33 There was no B+ or B++. 21:57:42 C++'s predecessors were Simula-3 and C. 21:58:28 AnMaster: i assume the old norse pronounced the h. i think icelandic devoices the n. 21:58:34 ah 22:06:48 I love how plt scheme has ⌘\ → λ 22:07:56 ⌘‽ 22:08:47 Command key. 22:09:02 "Control, Option, Command" is the order of the modifier keys on Apple keyboards. 22:09:11 Command is used for most shortcuts, etc. 22:09:23 (i.e., what Control is for Windows/Linux) 22:09:39 Option and Control being added modifier keys. The terminal passes Control-s unscathed. 22:09:39 Aha 22:09:52 Saying "Command-\" would've been noticeably more clear 22:09:54 It's a nicer position than where Control usually is, at least for my hands. 22:09:59 I was wondering what the place of interest sign had to do with lambdas 22:10:08 Deewiant: Yes, but the topic is shortcuts for Unicode characters, so it seemed appropriate. 22:10:13 Also, the place of interest sign is pretty. 22:10:15 I was thinking that it was some kind of digraph 22:11:02 (Originally an Apple logo was used, and indeed an Apple logo adorns every Apple keyboard with that key until the latest revision - including the one I have - but Jobs axed that before it ever got out because he felt the overload of the logo in the menus "degraded" the logo to a commodity, so to speak.) 22:11:08 (He is, um, crazy, if you haven't noticed.) 22:12:22 mad genius 22:12:33 I really like CapsLock for extra Ctrl. Means I have to stretch hand less awkwardly 22:14:07 I could demonstrate why that is provably less ergonomic unless you have mutant hands, but I doubt you'd listen. 22:14:18 oerjan: some would dispute "genius", but agreed 22:16:35 * ehird wonders wtf the first parameter to SYNTAX-RULES does 22:18:53 In Scheme? 22:19:13 Any identifiers in that list are marked as literals 22:19:48 Meaning that if you use them in a template it matches against the value of the identifier 22:19:57 Instead of being a pattern variable that matches anything 22:20:09 ah 22:20:27 (is it just me, or can syntax-rules thingies not transform the expression in any way?) 22:20:37 (Like, you can't take a nested list and process that recursively into code) 22:20:39 Transform the expression? 22:20:58 (Because (transform x) will turn into (transform ) and become code, not a code generator) 22:21:06 I'm probably missing osmething obvious of course 22:21:08 *something 22:21:53 I'm still not sure what you're after 22:22:18 e.g., (test (a b (c d e))) → (b a (d c e)) 22:22:29 take a list, transform that list, use it as code 22:22:31 in the expansion 22:22:35 recursively 22:25:20 No? 22:26:07 (define-syntax test (syntax-rules () (_ (a b c ...)) (b a (test (c ...))))) + a base case, or something 22:26:22 I don't see why it shouldn't be possible 22:26:43 Deewiant: Consider (a b c d e) → (b a c d e) 22:26:49 You can do it for a fixed number of arguments, of course 22:26:51 That's obvious 22:27:29 Then recurse into a different function 22:27:38 Howso 22:27:41 That macro works for an arbitrary number of arguments 22:27:46 It takes 2 or more 22:27:52 That's what the ... does 22:28:02 It doesn't do the same thing 22:28:12 It does (a b c d e) → (b a (d c e)) 22:28:17 Which is obviously possible 22:28:26 But you can't do (map macro (foo ...)) 22:29:13 No, but you should be able to do a macro2 which does a map macro -ish thing 22:29:27 I'm not 100% sure though and I can't be bothered to think on it now 22:29:49 Deewiant: How? macro2 would just get (_ foo ...) 22:29:54 Which is the exact same situation as macro 22:30:08 Pattern match on whether foo is a list 22:30:12 And if it is, go inside it 22:30:27 I guess you can do it as another case in one macro as well 22:30:40 You know, this conversation is proceeding as "How do I do A?"" "Do X so that you can do A" 22:30:47 :P 22:30:54 I'll just let you figure it out then 22:31:00 I intend to sleep for the next 7 hours -> 22:31:00 Zzz 22:33:38 (define-syntax mapm (syntax-rules () (_ (macro (foo ...))) ((macro foo) ...))) or something, what's wrong with that admitting i have forgotten scheme macros years ago... 22:34:29 I don't see how that can possibly work 22:34:48 It expands (macro (foo a b c)) → ((macro foo) a b c) 22:35:37 oh, i thought ... did corresponding changes to everything as was done to the initial foo 22:35:46 I don't actually know 22:35:47 You may be right 22:35:49 I'll test it 22:36:08 Wait, it expands 22:36:17 (mapm (macro (foo a b c))) → ((macro foo) a b c) 22:36:26 darn 22:36:30 i'll try it 22:36:31 I haven't tested it 22:36:32 yet 22:37:54 i was hoping for (mapm macro (foo a b c)) anyway, whoever knows the syntax may adjust it... 22:38:35 seems to work 22:38:59 yay 22:39:22 (define-syntax fluffy 22:39:22 (syntax-rules (butt) 22:39:22 [(_ butt) butt] 22:39:22 [(_ (foo ...)) ((fluffy foo) ...)])) 22:39:23 works fine 22:40:03 Here's one too complicated thing: 22:40:05 > (define-syntax reverse (syntax-rules (rev) ((_ rev () x) x) ((_ rev (a . b) z) (reverse rev b ((reverse a) . z))) ((_ (list ...)) (reverse rev (list ...) ())) ((_ item) item))) 22:40:05 > (reverse (5 4 3 (2 1 +) +)) 22:40:05 15 22:40:10 well, in plt scheme Pretty Big at least; in R5RS you can't do the [] ofc 22:40:21 but [] in drscheme alternate paren types and I'm too lazy to rebind it 22:40:34 fizzie: fuck you, that's what I was writing :-( 22:40:39 I was just trying to illustrate that people use special-symbol thingamajicks to do multiple-cases-of-processing style things in a single macro. 22:40:39 well 22:40:46 I was just doing (a b +) → (+ a b) 22:40:47 :P 22:40:52 instead of (a b +) -> (+ b a) 22:41:01 But yeah, I think syntax-rules is kind of... awful? 22:41:11 It's hygienic, that's not awful. 22:41:13 Feels very low-level doing things like that 22:41:35 fizzie: Sure, but hygienic != gee, well, you can do simple rewriting unless you want to get TRICKY 22:41:37 You can look at syntax-case if you like, that's what all the big boys use. I've never bothered to learn it properly, though. 22:42:30 I guess they actually incorporated syntax-case in R6RS or something, I don't know. 22:42:35 I get, from R5RS fans, a general vibe of "syntax-case is so impure and unsvelte :(" 22:42:42 Oh, if R6RS has it it probably sucks 22:44:21 (Yeah I just wanted an excuse to use the word svelte, sue me) 22:44:26 Also, I'm attempting to stop using semicolons 22:44:29 practically sveltihel 22:45:04 Oh, I see how ... works 22:45:55 "x ..." in the expansion, where x involves "foo ..." from the pattern, turns into "x_0 x_1 x_2 ..." for each foo, with the foo variable replaced with the element. 22:46:10 I just though that "foo ..." was a weird two-atom name for all of 'em. 22:46:42 * ehird wonders why PLT has a memory limit of 128 meg by default 22:47:51 -!- M0ny has quit. 22:52:56 Actually I think the deep-reverse macro is pretty much a direct translation of a reasonable deep-reverse function -- http://scheme.pastebin.com/m39b7123f -- except with list? and null? implemented with pattern-matching. 22:53:29 Yes, and it'd be nice if you could do (expand (func x)) in a macro, but that's so unhygienic and stuff. 22:54:44 Just write defmacro/define-macro transformers, then. Expect people to start to sneeze, though; being unhygienic means you're propagating the what-was-it flu. 22:54:56 I think pig. 22:54:58 Pig flu. 22:55:00 Yeah, that sounds right. 22:55:14 Yeah, I guess so. For some reason I was thinking "horse". 22:55:22 Oh, it may have been unicorn flu. 22:55:24 UNICORN FLU 22:55:31 -!- ehird has set topic: UNICORN FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 22:55:37 Unicorn flu makes you sneeze out rainbows. (Away.) 22:55:51 Sneeze them out AwAY? 22:55:53 AWAY? 23:30:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).