00:06:11 http://abitbit.com/ 00:12:13 that looks a bit down 00:12:32 oh, my 00:16:20 Loads here 00:16:27 But is quite slow 00:26:04 keeps getting a 500 error 00:26:20 reddited i guess 00:28:16 "a bit down" :) 00:29:41 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:34:54 -!- Asztal has quit ("."). 01:41:22 -!- Sneezle has quit ("good night, have fun o/"). 01:52:29 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:28:24 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:45:26 oh man, K 02:45:48 so awesome 02:48:43 S..t:".[`D;(;);{. y};S[]];S[.;`f]:9$D[]" 02:48:44 S:D:.+(`$'_ci 97+!10;10 30#,"") 02:48:44 `show$`S 02:48:45 No output. 02:48:50 is a spreadsheet 02:49:17 a-j, 0-29 02:49:28 formulas like a[0]+j[29] 02:49:36 labels like "foo" 02:50:31 That is pretty awesome. 02:50:32 screenshot: 02:50:41 http://imgur.com/n8uHT.png 02:50:46 yes, that's a full gui 02:50:55 no, there is NO code other than those three lines 02:51:07 -!- Pthing has joined. 02:51:16 ridiculously concise 02:51:18 ... 02:51:28 yeah 02:51:54 I feel confident in saying that C is why we can't have nice things. 02:52:00 only one caveat: you can't get the formula after entering it; the cell updates but editing it gives the current value and clicking away from it makes it keep that value 02:52:03 but that's like a two line fix 02:52:11 pikhq: you certainly changed after learning haskell :P 02:52:42 "... You mean there's something actually *better* than tons of boilerplate or ZOMG objects?" 02:52:49 incidentally, the entirety of K is 181 kilobytes compiled 02:52:59 3K trivial wrapper k.exe and 178K k20.dll 02:53:06 O.O 02:53:07 (windows version; gui on linux is iffy) 02:53:14 (but sizes are similar) 02:53:27 about 60% of the impl is the gui 02:55:54 pikhq: oh, and kdb, the column-based db with sql support, http interface including xml/excel export and html/js interface, which powers a bunch of financial institutions? 02:56:03 69KB 02:56:10 Part of why I'm bitter about C today is that I've been working with Plof's C FFI today. 02:56:15 consisting of .kr files (basically dumped K objects, including code) 02:56:19 .dll files 02:56:24 and one gif for the web interface 02:56:33 (.dll files are 8K+16K, ODBC interface) 02:56:44 It is enough to make you despise C. 02:56:46 (whole of actual really fast kdb is written in k) 02:57:15 it's ridiculous, really 02:57:18 :) 02:58:03 disadvantage: hard to use many other languages now 02:58:06 Y'know, I think what I hate most about C is its awful, awful error handling. 02:58:23 what i hate most about c is everything. 02:58:34 I WURVE C 02:58:53 no comment. 03:00:04 i actually patched k's binary xD 03:00:26 it started a console window which on wine was wonky, so i replaced a few bytes with nop and it stopped bringing it up 03:00:36 instead using the terminal i started wine from 03:00:45 who says you can't improve non-open-source 03:05:29 (though i'd prefer it open source. and not circa 2005 due to them going k4/q, which abandons the functional reactive programming gui) 03:10:11 but oh well 03:10:13 it's fun 03:11:36 pikhq: if you liked that, here's a one-line sudoku solver 03:11:37 s:{*(,x)(,/{@[x;y;:;]'&21=x[&|/p[;y]=p]?!10}')/&~x} 03:11:51 hmm, though it doesn't run on my k :( 03:49:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:51:26 -!- augur has joined. 04:23:58 (,!#y),(((#x)-1;1)#1+!#x),\:(#y)#0 04:35:53 discuss 04:36:26 main = getArgs >>= readFile . head >>= parse -- I think that Haskell has my favorite file handling. 04:37:16 in k that's... 04:38:05 hmm 04:40:17 hmmmmm 04:41:08 not sure how to do args 04:42:08 * ehird tries to find 04:44:19 ah, _i it seems 04:44:28 then 04:44:42 easy 04:44:56 pikhq: parse(6:_i[0]) 04:45:16 _i being arguments, 6: being read file as character vector. 04:45:23 ehird: Pretty spiffy. 04:46:05 right. 04:46:33 And a vast improvement on the usual model of "Let's give you fopen and fread and friends". 04:46:48 And for loops. 04:46:52 yeah, turns out such atomic operations are totally useless :P 04:47:13 Totally. :P 04:47:49 hmm 04:49:06 ah 04:49:33 pikhq: to parse and read each file, 04:49:51 parse' 6::'_i 04:50:16 we have to put a colon after 6: to note we mean the monadic (1-arg) version; not the (filename 6: contents) writing version 04:50:32 (f' x) is applying f to each element of x 04:50:38 _i is args like normal 04:50:54 (if we want to each a dyad, it's (list f' list), which does the obvious) 04:51:05 (and for an n-adic function, f'[list;list;list;...]) 04:52:05 pikhq: the haskell equivalent is uhh 04:52:08 hmm 04:52:36 getArgs >>= mapM readFle >>= fmap (map parse) 04:52:38 I think 04:52:53 yeah 04:52:57 Yeah. 04:53:07 imo the k is more readable 04:53:17 Bit more verbose than the K, but still rather nice. 04:53:32 though (do args <- getArgs; contents <- mapM readFile args; parses <- fmap (map parse)) works too, but is tedious 04:54:05 Bah. fmap (map parse) <<= mapM readFile <<= getArgs 04:54:23 readable, but has more cruft than the k version imo 04:55:11 pikhq: so, uh, a 512-bit RSA key has been factored 04:55:14 http://www.unitedti.org/index.php?showtopic=8888 04:55:21 the TI-83+ OS signing key 04:55:21 that doesn't work with the same parse as above... 04:55:30 oerjan: prolly not, whatever 04:55:42 ehird: I am scared. 04:55:43 oh hmm 04:55:45 pikhq: don't be 04:55:47 which gave an IO result 04:55:50 pikhq: a high-end pc can do it in 2 months straight 04:55:57 core 2 quad 04:56:02 so not a great feat 04:56:16 Oh, 512-bit. 04:56:19 As I said on UTI, this took a fair amount of CPU power -- about 73 days of computation -- but it didn't really take a lot of work from me; mostly I just watched the numbers go up, and periodically started up another Msieve run. 04:56:25 ... People use 512-bit encryption? 04:56:42 pikhq: in 1999? yes. 04:56:45 getArgs >>= mapM readFile >>= mapM parse 04:57:01 oerjan: can't beat parse' 6::'_i 04:57:02 :P 04:57:22 unreadability is hard to beat ;) 04:57:42 oerjan: i'll go ask a java programmer what your snippet does. 04:58:13 let g = getArgs; (>) = (>>=); m = mapM; r = readFile in g>m r>m pare 04:58:24 now that's unreadable. 04:59:12 incidentally, kdb is ridiculously fast. 04:59:38 it'd be hard to construct a query on 100,000 records that takes an actually perceptible time 05:00:32 Query: which records, when executed as x86 code, halt within 30 seconds? 05:00:48 Good luck formulating that as a ksql query 05:01:01 but the answer is likely "all of them". 05:01:50 ksql is not strictly sql, btw, although iirc it has an sql9x something in it 05:02:00 but ksql itself seems to be nicer than sql. 05:14:38 5:14am; should i sleep? 05:16:47 No. 05:17:18 http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/head/lib/libc/stdlib/rb.h?revision=178995&view=markup This is stunning. Evil, but stunning. 05:17:56 pikhq: when should i sleep 05:18:19 This time tomorrow. 05:18:37 pikhq: srsly though. 05:22:23 :| 05:23:34 bleh 05:33:10 -!- ehird has quit. 05:49:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:40:44 ehird (for log reading): There is a good reason to use disk encryption in a laptop, even if you use a bios password: it is easy to take the disk out. If disk is encrypted information will still be unreadable :P 06:40:54 bbl 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:24:16 -!- immibis has joined. 08:34:54 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:55:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:04:01 ehird: pikhq: parse(6:_i[0]) <<< so 6:_i is a character vector, and somehow [0] extracts first line? or how does the parsing go here 09:04:14 oh wait 09:04:22 6:(_i[0]) obviously 09:08:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:47:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:32:15 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:00:07 mbs_idx(x) = { n = 2^i; >> n; x | n = 1; i } 11:00:30 *msb 11:02:08 i love the muture paradigm, maximizing is a beautiful way to do absolute declarativity 11:02:25 Muture? 11:02:50 muture is one of my languages, the idea that (>> expr) maximizes the value of expr is from it 11:02:53 Google gives stuff about "muture women" 11:02:57 :) 11:03:21 So I guess there's nothing about it anywhere? :-P 11:03:36 it's *my* language, so of course not 11:03:49 That's lame 11:04:14 well that's not muture code anyway 11:04:34 it's code in a language whose name i haven't even mentioned here 11:04:51 muture i've talked about, here, a bit i use #esoteric as my official specs :P 11:04:58 well the logs 11:05:06 *a bit, i use 11:12:01 maximizing stuff is difficult. 11:13:00 i'm not saying it's at all practical, i'm saying i like to express stuff that way :) 11:13:38 i'm way past caring whether things can be implemented. 11:14:13 can you maximize user's enjoyment? 11:15:10 no, there are no side-effects 11:17:57 i guess you could add that for debugging, i mean getting a dose of heroin every time there's a bug might make testing much more fun 11:17:58 well 11:18:04 heroin might not be the best way to go 11:18:40 but something with a better fun/unfun ratio 11:29:55 -!- jix has joined. 11:34:40 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:49:52 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:56:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:13:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:24:27 Hello from university 12:24:29 :) 12:24:31 * AnMaster is using the bouncer at home through a ssh tunnel 12:25:27 for ehird when he gets here: login is seriously screwy 12:25:37 it said it used WPA on the website with config stuff 12:25:39 it doesn't 12:25:55 it is open and when you try to load anything in a browser you get an *unencrypted* login page 12:26:01 which says it is using ssl 12:26:05 as in the text 12:26:07 but it doesn't 12:26:17 anyway the bad bit is still to come 12:26:31 after verifying that, it redirects you to a web page with a broken cert 12:26:35 yes this time it is ssl 12:26:45 and it seems to vary between access points 12:26:58 always some ip starting at 72.* 12:27:01 very odd 12:27:38 traceroute refuses to work here for some reason 12:27:53 tracepath *does* work 12:27:58 kind of 12:28:03 about 3 jumps 12:28:05 then no longer 12:28:47 hm seems I have IP 10.8.2.234 12:29:02 would collide with virtualbox, need to adjust that to use the third private range I guess 12:29:09 since I use 192.168.0.x at home 12:30:15 oh and I got a pass card thingy heh 12:30:21 for Doors 12:30:43 haven't found anywhere to try it yet 12:31:05 did you start uni? 12:33:08 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 12:34:22 oklopol, yes 12:37:10 It started now, in Sweden? 12:37:31 err 12:37:32 began 12:37:38 or possiblyt 12:37:43 I missed the word "at" 12:37:58 Deewiant, oh wait, you didn't try to mean that what I said really meant "founded" 12:37:59 :D 12:38:09 >_< 12:38:12 I misunderstood you, misunderstanding me 12:38:43 Deewiant, well, it hasn't started fully, however they have a math course starting two weeks before... it is repetition of high school basically 12:39:03 and, a better teacher than I had at high school 12:39:04 by far 12:39:13 So only first-years are there? 12:39:15 so really useful 12:39:20 Deewiant, eh? 12:39:23 ;P 12:39:28 I said two week course 12:39:52 and well, in two weeks I start at studying to dataingengör 12:39:54 Yes, I know 12:40:03 But you said it hasn't started fully 12:40:09 Deewiant, ah 12:40:10 sorry 12:40:14 And that you only have some kind of repetitiony math course 12:40:21 screen a bit hard to read, ubuntu auto dimmed it 12:40:25 Which, to me, suggests that it's some kind of extra thing for first-years 12:40:29 you said "first-years", not "first year" 12:40:30 right 12:41:06 well, a few others iirc, studying to become teachers, and deciding to take the course 12:41:07 iirc 12:41:19 but most of the ~50 people were first-years at uni yes 12:41:32 Well yeah, obviously the teachers and assistants for you guys etc :-) 12:41:54 Deewiant, anyway I find the wlan login amusing, suspending for a few minutes doesn't seem to log you out always, only sometimes 12:41:55 and 12:42:06 why the hell can't I do a traceroute OR tracepath from here 12:43:03 ah so you do officially start at the same time we do 12:43:12 also I'm in the library 12:43:23 awkward chairs for using computers on a table in front 12:43:55 I have to find somewhere else if I don't want my back to start hurting more than it already started, brb, *disconnects from bouncer* 12:45:40 wow.. 12:45:43 I'm still connected 12:45:49 though I suspended 12:45:55 ssh tunnel didn't disconnect 12:45:58 how strange 12:53:23 did that again 12:56:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:07:59 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms644936(VS.85,loband).aspx - a BOOL-returning function that can return zero, nonzero, or -1 13:08:57 Deewiant, heh? 13:09:11 too much work to click with the () IN IT 13:09:13 err 13:09:14 in it* 13:09:20 not sure what happened there to the keyboard 13:10:53 luckily i have a modern client that makes it easy to click even links with parens! 13:12:34 oklopol, I could adjust regex 13:12:40 to make it not stop at () 13:13:01 but meh, only links with parens in I can recall atm are the msdn ones 13:13:25 mine fails for (url), which is far more common 13:13:36 AnMaster: Wikipedia? 13:14:34 easy to make both work ofc, but i have no idea how to fix that in nnscript, so i guess you win 13:15:26 Deewiant, they seem to be url encoded there 13:15:28 which is no issue 13:15:48 at least, most people post them that way 13:15:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar_(disambiguation) 13:15:55 Doesn't look URL encoded to me 13:16:58 Deewiant, well, when I copy it, it ends up url encoded 13:17:02 bbl, going home now 13:17:08 You have an odd browser :-P 13:24:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:39:34 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 13:53:28 back at home 13:53:31 Deewiant, firefox 13:54:08 Doesn't make it less odd 13:54:16 Still on 2.0? 13:55:12 Deewiant, well, on there I was, since I installed using ubuntu 13:55:19 wait 13:55:20 no 13:55:24 whatever is the next last version 13:55:26 3.0? 13:55:27 right 13:55:32 Deewiant, ^ 13:55:37 think so 13:55:47 not the 3.5 13:55:55 so yeah, 3.0 13:55:59 same on desktop 13:56:04 I changed AGES ago 13:56:09 when the old one stopped being supported 13:56:42 3.0.13 here 13:58:36 I'm off too -> 14:02:42 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:14:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 14:21:02 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:28:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:38:53 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:44:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:59:05 -!- Sneezle has joined. 15:08:35 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out). 15:22:44 Oho, the first spammer to send mail to one of my plus addresses 15:22:56 Took 2 years 15:23:27 i wish i got spam 15:25:04 Put e-mail addresses on the WWW and it will come 15:25:16 Though it might take a while, like it did now 15:31:05 I just get spam on my real adresses ._. 15:31:15 s/ad/add/ 15:32:33 Deewiant: i don't think i have the energy for that 15:36:14 -!- ehird has joined. 15:41:39 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 15:41:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:51:16 tunes.org seems down 15:51:19 oh 15:51:20 just slow 15:51:45 22:40:44 ehird (for log reading): There is a good reason to use disk encryption in a laptop, even if you use a bios password: it is easy to take the disk out. If disk is encrypted information will still be unreadable :P 15:51:46 eh 15:52:32 ehird, well, I'm assume a laptop like mine where you can take the disk out in a minute or so. 15:52:51 my harddrive is terribly boring 15:52:51 rather than something like an unibody mac 15:52:58 uhm 15:53:00 same with macs. 15:53:08 you just get a screwdriver, take off three 15:53:09 and open the lid 15:53:13 ehird, I thought unibody ones were harder 15:53:13 tada, harddrive 15:53:17 nope. 15:53:29 ehird, so it is a unibody in two parts? :D 15:53:34 you may be thinking of the battery, which lasts 3x as long as usual batteries and can't be replaced 15:53:41 ah 15:53:44 probably 15:53:51 I assumed everything was as bad as that 15:54:11 AnMaster: it can be replaced, actually. 15:54:13 you just send it away 15:54:19 ehird, hah 15:54:24 ehird, I know that 15:54:25 (or destroy your warranty by doing it yourself) 15:54:30 -!- Sneezle has quit ("good night, have fun o/"). 15:54:37 ehird, btw, I'm glad I didn't get a larger battery 15:54:42 why? 15:54:58 it wouldn't have fitted in this laptop backpack. So I would have had to get the model for 17" laptops 15:55:12 my laptop will be 12.1" 15:55:14 as it is, it is maybe half a cm in the relevant direction that is free 15:55:19 so I'll be hard pressed to find a bag it doesn't fit in 15:55:26 even with a 30 cell battery :P 15:55:31 maybe not 31 though! 15:55:51 ehird, bag made for 15.4" widescreen. Laptop is 15.4" widescreen 15:55:53 fits yes 15:56:03 but not a lot of space free around that 15:56:23 (in the computer section I mean) 15:56:24 12.1" + 9 cell is smaller than a 13.3", prolly 15:56:27 it just sticks out an inch 15:56:29 ehird, of course 15:56:34 well a bit less 15:56:40 i thought the screen might be too small but it looks fine 15:58:34 So, let's golf Hamming distance: error out if the two strings aren't the same length, then return the number of characters that they differ by. Define it as a two-argument function "ham". 15:58:37 In K: 15:58:43 ham:{+/~x=y} 15:58:57 ehird, btw, I now have my own card to pass Doors 15:59:06 lets hope I won't have as much trouble as ais did 15:59:09 why do Doors even exist. 15:59:15 we need to trust people more. 15:59:29 ehird, to prevent People from Entering certain Rooms 15:59:32 :D 15:59:47 ;_; 15:59:57 AnMaster: do ↑↑ the golfing in erlang? 16:00:04 i'm interested in seeing how much it FAILS HORRIBLY 16:00:28 ehird, I can understand them, expensive computers. Sure you don't want students from other parts of the university to use the computers meant for _your_ students 16:00:49 if they want they could go to the ones in the library instead 16:01:02 ehird, anyway, read log to see how whacky the wlan login they use is 16:01:05 if they're not being used, it doesn't hurt anybody; and besides, dammit, if you think your students are gonna ruin everything they shouldn't be your students 16:01:27 03:17:57 i guess you could add that for debugging, i mean getting a dose of heroin every time there's a bug might make testing much more fun 16:01:28 xD 16:01:42 until you just start adding bugs on purpos 16:01:42 e 16:01:48 ham xs ys | length xs == length ys = undefined | otherwise = length [ x : y | x<-xs, y<-ys, x != y] -- Like that? 16:02:03 Not much golf there, though. 16:02:17 pikhq: Dayum bitch that's some verbosity. 16:02:19 04:25:55 it is open and when you try to load anything in a browser you get an *unencrypted* login page 16:02:19 04:26:01 which says it is using ssl 16:02:20 04:26:05 as in the text 16:02:20 04:26:07 but it doesn't 16:02:20 i bet it is 16:02:22 view page source 16:02:26
i guess in the same way it causes cancer 16:13:42 :D 16:15:31 http://www.vanityfair.com/images/politics/2009/08/qaddafi-0908-ps01.jpg 16:15:31 this is an awesome picture 16:15:40 spot the odd one out! 16:16:02 ehird, the one in white? with a black cape thingy 16:16:06 Is there any non-odd? 16:16:18 Congratulations, AnMaster. You are not conclusively proved retarded by that observation. 16:16:21 other ones are politicians or similar 16:16:21 :-P 16:16:29 AnMaster: Uhh, they're all heads of state. 16:16:35 Qaddafi is just batshit. 16:16:38 ehird, the one in white with a cape too? 16:16:45 Yes, AnMaster. 16:16:50 ehird, which state 16:16:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_al-Gaddafi 16:17:38 heh 16:34:03 ehird: shut up, I'm the one who says things like that <<< i say kinda stuff that to AnMaster all the time 16:34:15 since recently, yes 16:35:21 since forever :| 16:35:26 well kay :P 16:35:41 let's be ha-AnMaster-your-computer-sucks buddies 16:35:47 i used to do it before AnMaster, praising windows 16:36:10 when others had a problem my win didn't have 16:36:22 well, weird pluralization, but anyway 16:36:57 it's hard to beat windows for compatibility 16:37:02 modern linux is pretty good tho. 16:38:26 well i don't care about compatibility, more you know irrelevant details, just to annoy whoever's having problems 16:38:36 not sure i've done it that much, but occasionally. 16:38:45 "Elements of G(4) continue to increase for a while, but at base 3 x 2^402653209, they reach the maximum of 3 x 2^402653210 - 1, stay there for the next 3 x 2^402653209 steps, and then begin their first and final descent." 16:45:52 foop doop 16:46:29 oklopol: maybe your J will be a worthy opponent to my K golfing! 16:46:39 hamming distance 16:46:40 ham:{+/~x=y} 16:46:41 go 16:46:53 oklopol: or muture xD 16:50:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:53:52 what's G(4)? 16:54:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodstein's_theorem 16:54:29 and how does the ham work? 16:54:38 oklopol: +/ is sum obviously 16:54:39 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:54:43 yes 16:54:45 x=y is atomic =; strings are vectors of characters 16:54:49 so it's mapped over 16:54:51 ~ is not 16:55:02 so we map all chars to whether they're equal or not 16:55:04 negate that 16:55:06 and sum it up 16:55:07 ahhh for strings 16:55:14 oklopol: works for any list. 16:55:22 but usually, yes. 16:55:29 well yes, but i thought they were numbers, because i'm an idiot 16:55:36 that you are. :P 16:55:44 NO U 16:55:55 it even works for things like 16:55:56 ham[(1 2 3; 4 5 6);(1 2 6; 4 5 3)] 16:55:56 0 0 2 16:57:33 so those are matrices, and the rows are being compared separately 16:57:34 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:57:49 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:13 yeah 17:00:38 the same-length-and-structure requirement is enforced by = 17:01:01 oklopol: but it works for any dimension list: 17:01:02 ham[((1 2 3; 4 5 6); (7 8 9; 10 11 12));((1 2 6; 4 5 7); (1 8 9; 10 4 12))] 17:01:02 (1 0 1 17:01:02 0 1 1) 17:01:08 (that being (1 0 1; 0 1 1)) 17:02:07 (because newline = ;) 17:02:48 and can you "box" those two matrices so that equality has infinite rank? 17:03:43 no boxing, but I think you can do infinite rank 17:03:48 I'd have to look it up 17:03:54 K 17:03:58 lol K 17:04:05 mmmmmm K 17:04:19 error k, K 17:04:28 oklopol: but 17:04:34 ~ is infinite-rank = in itself 17:05:19 hmm right, J has that too 17:05:29 except it's not ~ 17:09:33 oklopol: [17:08] kpierre_: k doesn't have ranks 17:09:34 [17:08] kpierre_: unlike other apls 17:12:23 what chan? 17:12:51 well, what network 17:13:20 oklopol: it's a jabber chat and i'd have to ask them if you could come. 17:13:26 i can if you want. 17:13:50 i'd have to look up jabber chat first 17:13:55 ham=(.)(.)(.)sum$zipWith(((.).(.))fromEnum(/=)) but doesn't error out on unequal-length lists 17:13:55 lawl 17:14:06 Deewiant: man hasksell is lame. 17:14:11 *haskell 17:14:26 `man haskell` 17:14:27 No output. 17:14:30 is jabber an alternative to irc 17:14:32 No manual entry for haskell 17:14:32 Of course if we had a better Prelude that could be something like ham=sum.:zipWith'(fromEnum.:(/=)) 17:14:38 You're right, that is lame! 17:14:38 GregorR-L: that was pretty lame 17:14:45 (A more anal zipWith and (.:)=(.).(.)) 17:14:47 oklopol: jabber's an alternative to both msn/aim/etc and irc 17:14:56 i use bitlbee so it's just an irc channel to me. 17:14:56 ehird: right 17:15:07 but 17:15:12 oklopol: http://register.jabber.org/ 17:15:18 username, password twice, captcha, click register 17:15:21 and you have an account 17:15:32 but i'd have to get a program too 17:15:42 yeah, like 3 more clicks 17:15:47 :P 17:15:52 well the point is 17:15:57 oklopol: how about I ask them first so you feel an obligation if they say yes. 17:16:04 i'd be there a few times, then stop 17:16:17 ehird: no i won't, don't be silly 17:16:21 oklopol: http://www.jabbear.com/en/ 17:16:23 web client :P 17:16:55 hmm, turns out i need to leave right now 17:16:56 :o 17:16:59 -> 17:17:00 xD 17:20:14 If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... 17:20:17 I'd call it jabbear. 17:20:40 Yes. 17:21:13 `addquote If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 17:21:17 71| If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 17:25:13 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 17:25:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:25:24 hi ais523! 17:25:40 hi 17:29:11 -!- Pthing has joined. 17:32:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:36:15 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:40:44 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:43:31 hmm... it seems our heroic anti-troll is PuzzleHunter84 17:44:03 Interesting idea, but how can it possibly work? (Even if it doesn't) --Zzo38 03:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC) 17:44:03 —Talk:Almost impossible to learn and apply esoteric programming language 17:44:27 ais523: oh, I don't think he's a troll, oh dear 17:44:44 ais523: here's why I think so 17:44:49 he says he made http://esolangs.org/wiki/Topline 17:44:49 no, I think zzo38's reaction towards that is the same as my reaction towards TURKEY BOMB 17:44:55 no no no 17:44:56 I mean the author 17:44:59 listen 17:45:03 he says he made http://esolangs.org/wiki/Topline 17:45:11 which is close to the generic cookie-cutter esolang we all hate 17:45:12 AND 17:45:25 the BF derivative acronyms as Ihybrid 17:45:32 which suggests the title may be a joke, and was just picked to acronym like that 17:45:35 AND 17:45:39 he says he's going to try and implement the other one 17:45:54 I don't think the author of ihybrid is a troll 17:45:54 plus 17:45:56 "I'm working on it and it will hopefully work. It is going to be incredibly complex and difficult to understand and even I wouldn't attempt to make a working interpreter. It'll hopefully be pretty close to Malbolge in the amount of confusion to be caused, but simple programs will hopefully be easier to write than in Malboge." 17:46:01 doesn't even seem joking at all 17:46:05 ais523: ugh 17:46:06 anti-troll 17:46:07 whatever 17:46:09 the languages are serious 17:46:11 is what I'm saying 17:46:12 read what I sadi 17:46:14 *said 17:46:26 yes, I don't see why they can't be 17:46:44 ...then how is it a counter troll 17:46:50 and topline is relatively cookie-cutter, but not nearly as much as, say, Minimal 17:47:01 it's not a counter troll because he's being sincere with the language 17:47:05 topline isn't counter-trolling; I think ihybrid may be, though 17:47:09 I don't think he's trolling Minimal, I think it's a coincidence 17:47:12 oh, ok 17:47:14 The name was almost certainly picked for the acronym 17:47:38 it may be a complaint against BF-derivatives in general 17:47:39 and considering the rest of the evidence, it seems like he might actually be part of the crappy BF derivative/zomgz really hard language brigade 17:47:53 ais523: Yes, but I find that unlikely given: 17:47:58 "I'm working on it and it will hopefully work. It is going to be incredibly complex and difficult to understand and even I wouldn't attempt to make a working interpreter. It'll hopefully be pretty close to Malbolge in the amount of confusion to be caused, but simple programs will hopefully be easier to write than in Malboge." 17:48:17 because I can easily see "Almost impossible to learn and apply esoteric programming language" being a tongue in cheek, but sincere, name for a "zomg hard!!11" esolang 17:48:44 my guess is it's meant to be hard to write in and harder to implement 17:48:47 and very underspecified 17:49:01 see, I think given the other evidence, the underspecification isn't intentional, per se 17:49:14 and it leads me to believe that he's just whimsical with names for his sincere-but-terrible languages 17:49:20 esp. given ihybrid's acronym 17:51:04 so I guess our brains are the counter-trolls for thinking it was :) 17:51:06 we could just ask the guy. 17:52:37 oh well, unintentional counter-trolling is still counter-trolling 17:52:53 ais523: by that logic, Minimal is counter-trolling 17:53:16 counter-trolling what, though? 17:53:26 terrible BF derivatives 17:54:13 you've just given me an urge to post BF without ] onto the wiki again 17:54:26 come to think of it, if you assumed the ]s went at the end of the program, would it be TC? 17:54:38 +[code] with skip-next-if-true is TC 17:54:41 so prolly. 17:54:51 *skip-next-if-false 17:54:57 hmm 17:54:58 no prolly not 17:55:00 or mayb 17:55:01 e 17:55:05 it's not obvious 17:55:14 what about without [ 17:55:22 we infer where the [ is 17:55:30 that's much harder to infer 17:55:31 based on when we made a pertinent change to the current cell 17:55:33 >:) 18:06:27 I wonder 18:06:44 why does the password thingy at the uni forbid passwords ending with a digit 18:06:53 and only allow between 6 and 8 letters 18:06:59 to stop people just incrementing a number at the end whenever they have to change their password 18:07:09 ais523, they could increment in the middle 18:07:09 and 18:07:10 there's more or less an infinite number of password security misconceptions 18:07:16 I think you just ran into one of them 18:07:25 ais523, they also forbid at the start 18:07:31 but not in the middle 18:07:50 ais523, btw, how is the Door nowdays? 18:08:14 AnMaster: haven't gone to that department for a while, I've graduated 18:08:19 ais523, ah :D 18:08:26 ais523, so what department are you at then 18:08:34 atm, I'm on holiday 18:08:37 ais523, ah 18:08:55 ais523, and now I have my own Door card. For the local university here 18:09:04 I hope I won't have issues with it 18:11:15 hmph 18:11:22 i shouldn't learn good languages 18:13:00 Learn Java. 18:13:20 what has been learnt cannot be unlearnt 18:13:31 or actually the other way around. i think K has made me unlearn the "art" of writing useless metacode. 18:15:17 dammit. :P 18:16:11 Metacode? 18:16:30 anything that isn't directly related to the actual thing being done 18:16:47 every language has it by necessity. it's just that almost every other non-K language has a whole heap more. 18:17:10 (one of the worst offenders is imperative code; that paradigm is _all_ metacode) 18:17:31 ehird: and some imperative langs more than others 18:17:36 oh, absolutely 18:17:47 in ADA, you need an emacs macro just to write a loop without dying of boredom 18:17:51 I'm just saying that imperative code inherently has metagunk 18:17:52 ais523, so what about this autumn. Will you go to university then 18:17:53 ? 18:18:01 AnMaster: yes, starting on a PhD hopefully 18:18:09 ais523, same department? 18:18:13 no 18:18:42 ais523: please, make it involve esolangs 18:18:56 well, it's in computer science 18:19:01 so it's likely to end up tangentially related 18:19:04 probably no more than that, though 18:19:14 ais523 and follow the time-honoured naming tradition of "Meaningless Catchy Title: Long String of Specific Jargon"? 18:19:19 *ais523: 18:19:20 you must! 18:19:30 who knows? 18:19:36 ehird, example of that? 18:19:39 YOU ARE TOO EDGY AND UNCONVENTIONAL 18:19:52 AnMaster: The original, afaik, was Bananas in Space: Extending Fold and Unfold to Exponential Types 18:19:55 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.1.7380 18:20:03 ehird, heh 18:20:08 hm 18:20:08 Here's a more complicated title-decomposition: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=718 18:20:20 :D 18:20:59 academia is awesome. 18:21:20 fizzie, nice 18:22:25 the hardest part of doing a phd must be picking a really obscure topic. 18:22:33 i like to imagine you optimise for that. 18:23:00 hm 18:23:05 Hmm. Thesis on the optimisation of Brainfuck? 18:23:23 pikhq: despite appearances possibly gleaned from listening to AnMaster, it's not actually all that interesting or hard 18:23:40 not nearly impossible enough for a phd. 18:23:47 ehird: It's obscure. 18:23:52 okay, I know why the password is so limited now in length, it needs to be possible to enter on the photocopiers :D 18:23:54 And if you wanted to, you could make it hard. 18:24:04 I bet they can't handle more than a limited length 18:24:05 pikhq: (a) not the only criteria, and not THAT obscure 18:24:07 (b) not really 18:24:19 AnMaster: what length 18:24:45 ehird, well, considering there is a photo of one in the manual page of how to use one that says 0/10 entered 18:24:48 on the screen 18:24:51 still 18:24:52 what length 18:24:52 Fine, fine. Try to create a language that is as hard to optimise as possible. 18:24:54 that is two more 18:24:57 what length 18:24:58 than the length limit 18:24:59 of 8 18:25:02 that's common. 18:25:10 i doubt it's just because of the photocopiers. 18:25:12 ehird, well, see above I mentioned it there 18:25:26 ehird, there is a "no number at start or end" too 18:25:32 also mentioned above 18:25:41 length 8 maximum is common 18:25:49 ehird, yes, but insecure 18:25:59 shocking! 18:27:29 ehird, how many people use the MUA Eudora 18:27:31 any idea? 18:27:42 in the past, many many many people 18:27:53 today? Eudora 8 (mozilla based), probably like 5 18:27:56 older versions, quite a few 18:27:57 AnMaster: why 18:28:11 ehird, well, the uni has setup instructions for Eudora 6.2, and outlook express, but none for thunderbird 18:28:21 for the "student mail" thingy 18:28:27 so your university is techtarded, why are you surprised 18:28:35 it is plain IMAP and works in thunderbird though 18:28:52 ehird, there are wlan setup instructions for XP, 2000 and 9x 18:28:55 but none for vista 18:28:58 so your university is techtarded, why are you surprised 18:28:58 so your university is techtarded, why are you surprised 18:28:58 which is funny too 18:29:05 ehird, I'm not surprised 18:29:08 I just find it funny 18:29:11 then why are you mentioning it 18:29:16 I just find it funny 18:29:18 that's why 18:30:33 ehird, oh there is a guide how to install some root cert they use, to make those invalid certs work 18:30:40 there is a download for that cert, over http 18:30:42 not even https 18:30:51 who gives a shit. 18:31:01 * AnMaster is not going to do that without verifying the checksum with tech support 18:31:10 lol 18:31:13 like that'll happen 18:31:20 ehird, well, fingerprint then? 18:31:33 Hello, what is the checksum for the root certificate? 18:31:39 Is your computer turned on? 18:31:43 Yes, what is the checksum? 18:31:46 ehird, even funnier, it first gave 404, but when I changed the year part of it to the current year it worked 18:31:48 OK, does "google.com" work? 18:31:51 Yes, what is the checksum? 18:31:56 ehird, nah 18:32:00 Okay, try shutting it down and starting it up again. 18:32:07 -!- GregorR-L_ has joined. 18:32:11 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:32:17 -!- GregorR-L_ has changed nick to GregorR-L. 18:32:21 ehird, you can right click cert in windows and get it 18:32:24 ;P 18:32:24 Gee, I was just about to ghost 'im too. 18:33:59 ehird, funny thing is, that some certs they use are valid 18:34:17 where in this context valid = firefox doesn't complain 18:35:05 oh my... "Microsoft Developers Network Academic Alliance" 18:35:07 what the hell is that 18:35:30 * AnMaster reads 18:36:45 It's obviously a terrible and incomprehensible idea because it has Microsoft in the name. 18:36:54 MSDN Academic Alliance (MSDNAA) is a Microsoft program available to academic organizations, mainly colleges and universities, although there is also a high school version. The participating schools pay an annual fee for the MSDNAA service, in exchange for which, applicable departments (computer science, computer engineering, information technology, and related fields of that organization) as well as students and faculty can acquire licensed copies of Microsof 18:37:07 yes I found that 18:37:11 t Windows, Visual Studio and other products. The list of software each college and university gets is dependent on the agreements made by that particular organization. 18:37:23 ehird, it is a terrible idea to promote microsoft this way! ;P 18:38:01 Our Windows box here is courtesy of MSDNAA. 18:38:15 * AnMaster stabs the pdf viewer several times 18:38:22 that one in gnome I mean 18:38:54 it defaults to non-continuous scrolling, so I need to change every time I open a pdf file... 18:41:45 bbl 18:41:45 Hm. 18:41:52 Oh? At least here Evince remembers the "continuous" setting. 18:41:55 I hate learning new languages. It makes me want to write programs. :P 18:41:58 Well, for one PDF file, anyway. 18:42:20 fizzie: Your logic and facts cannot stand in the way of our irrational hatred of Gnome and its WAR ON FREEDOM AND CHOICE! 18:42:39 It seems to be a bit document-specific indeed. Somehow. 18:42:52 Okay, *that's* weird. 18:44:15 I can confirm that; Evince persists information per-file 18:44:21 it even remembers the location you've scrolled to 18:44:34 closing Evince, therefore, can be undone just by opening it again 18:44:39 it's an interesting paradigm 18:44:54 Yes, it seems to write per-file things to ~/.gnome2/evince/ev-metadata.xml. 18:45:20 the scrolling thing makes sense 18:45:23 document-based paradigm 18:45:30 and that makes the viewing mode make sorta sense 18:45:37 but it could do with a global preference for a default 18:46:36 I have a hunch the default is what-it-used-to-be-in-the-last-open-document, though I didn't really do extensive tests on that. 18:46:46 Well, then. 18:46:56 (That also makes sense.) 18:47:22 Yes, I think it takes them from the element. 18:47:38 So you have to use it at 1250530794 unix time for it to take effect? 18:47:40 :P 18:48:05 The atime is probably for expiration. It seems to remember 15 latest documents there. 18:48:41 It was a joke; surely 1250530794 is like, now? 18:48:44 Minus some seconds. 18:48:50 I was joking that it searched for exactly that time. 18:56:50 So, I just got one of my textbooks. It is apparently not for sale in the US. 18:56:59 Woooh international editions! 18:57:07 Oh yeah. 18:57:17 Would explain why it cost $30 instead of $200. 18:57:47 Wooh unbelievable cost of textbooks! 19:00:04 okay, part of the university website (a part called "e-blackboard"), refuses to accept firefox, user agent made that work, but it then refuses to accept jre 1.6, it wants jre 1.4 19:00:08 what the hell 19:00:32 It is quite stunning that they charge so dramatically more for the US. 19:00:44 AnMaster: old code. 19:01:09 ehird, yes, but that should run in 1.6 VM too 19:01:31 Not if they check (vm==1.4) to weed out old versions. 19:02:20 Your university is quickly achieving a high score on the suckomiter. 19:02:28 *suckometer 19:02:39 ehird, yes but that is just silly, since there is a link to some .com thingy at the bottom, as who made it 19:02:50 ...so? 19:03:03 anyway, they will run into issues 19:03:15 most modern systems wouldn't have JRE 1.4 any more 19:03:34 I don't think JRE 1.4 exists for my architecture. 19:03:38 they also use open source, for the bit that works best 19:03:40 http://www.jasig.org/uportal 19:03:42 pikhq, same here 19:04:03 no idea what company is behind that 19:07:53 -!- ehird has set topic: Sinnax Cossack's Mathematical Emporium | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 19:08:52 ehird, sounds like the name of a shop in nethack 19:09:00 Sinnax Cossack's. Say it fast. 19:09:15 ehird, don't know how to pronounce it 19:09:21 Like "Sinnax Cossack's". 19:09:27 hah hah 19:09:34 It'll work just about any way. 19:09:47 it rhymes? 19:10:00 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃"). 19:10:10 >_< 19:10:57 * GregorR-L doesn't get it either. 19:11:01 see 19:11:20 GregorR: Say it fast dammit. 19:11:25 Also, pay attention to the following word. 19:11:57 sin(x) cos(x)? 19:12:03 You win a prize. 19:12:18 How about you win the ability to realize that "ex" and "ax" aren't pronounced the same way X_X 19:12:48 In my dialect, at least, "Sinnax Cossack's" sounds quite like "sin(x) cos(x)". 19:13:14 ehird, try it in RP 19:13:27 Try it in GA :P 19:13:39 GregorR-L, GA? Generic American? 19:13:43 AnMaster: "Well! I *am* a faggot." 19:13:51 AnMaster: "General" American 19:14:02 GregorR-L: "Schwer" 19:14:08 ehird: Damned right bitch 19:14:29 * GregorR-L schwers it up a notch 19:22:41 then I much prefer american English 19:22:49 even if I can't understand that 19:22:58 a lot of the time 19:23:27 why? 19:23:53 ehird, http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/IrregularPodcast007.mp3 19:23:56 that :P 19:24:13 ehird, it is fine to begin with 19:24:20 but listen for a few minutes 19:24:33 it is just 5 minutes and 12 seconds long 19:24:35 isn't that australian 19:24:44 well 19:24:48 that was what I meant 19:24:51 typo above 19:24:51 -_- 19:25:48 I meant, why do you prefer australian english, and prefer it to what 19:26:25 ehird, it sounds quaint, doesn't it? 19:26:40 that was not my question 19:26:41 ehird, as for "to what": American English 19:26:51 and why, you didn't give a reason, it was completely without context 19:27:06 well some american dialects 19:27:11 at least 19:27:17 ehird, why what 19:27:33 [19:22] AnMaster: then I much prefer american English 19:27:37 There was nothing attached to "then" 19:27:39 It's lik 19:27:39 e 19:27:46 Then I like cake 19:27:47 well 19:27:51 then I much prefer green cake 19:27:55 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 19:27:56 Why? 19:27:57 Why what? 19:27:57 it was connected to the above discussion 19:28:00 of dialects 19:28:07 yes, but the above discussion had no obvious thing to point out as a reason for that 19:28:09 ehird, and: why not? 19:28:19 ................ 19:28:24 I don't think you understand what the word "then" means. 19:28:42 ehird, sure, I just skipped some logical steps 19:28:48 that I didn't print out 19:28:58 AnMaster: we call printing out these logical steps "communication" 19:29:00 considering dialects or a while 19:29:21 ehird, we wouldn't have had this discussion without me doing that 19:29:29 so it would have been dead and quiet 19:29:32 brb 19:29:35 .......... 19:29:48 I think you just put words together and hope they make any kind of sense. 19:29:55 My brain's hurting just trying to comprehend anything you've said. 19:45:52 get:{x[&x[;0]~\:y;1]} 19:45:52 table:(("hello";"world");("goodbye";"cruel");("foobar";"baz")) 19:45:52 get[table;"hello"] 19:45:52 ,"world" 19:45:55 heee fun 19:46:08 i can read x[&x[;0]~\:y;1] unaided, which I guess means there's no going back now 19:49:05 I wonder what the next "heee fun" thing will be 19:49:25 Hasn't it been Haskell -> Factor -> K now? :-P 19:49:29 Or am I swapping the former two 19:50:07 Haskell I learned longer ago 19:50:14 and have liked pretty much continually since 19:50:21 factor i dabbled with just a bit 19:50:28 forth has been the most recent one 19:50:35 I'm going mostly by how much you've been hyping something here 19:50:39 :P 19:50:43 i'm not hyping k 19:50:45 it's just awesome. 19:51:01 We've had the discussion about the meaning of "to hype" before, I'm not going to reiterate :-P 19:51:08 and it has more appeal than the ones I've actually hyped, since I can actually make stuff with it in a few lines 19:51:11 Deewiant: err, no we haven't 19:51:13 not that i reacll 19:51:14 *recall 19:51:38 Yes, we have 19:51:46 I'd grep it from the logs if I weren't booted into Windows 19:56:03 "Note that this web site will close down on December 18, 1999." 19:56:16 ehird: is that on a current website? 19:56:27 Not updated, but it's there. 19:56:40 I bet it's been on every todo list since. 19:56:58 (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/) 19:58:19 Deewiant: I suppose you know that ais523 can't use google :P 19:58:43 oh, I didn't even want to visit the page, just to know that it existed 19:59:03 -!- Pthing has joined. 19:59:23 I believe in pressing Alt+D,Ctrl+C,Alt+Tab,Ctrl+V,Enter,Alt+Tab to ten other people typing something into google 20:02:02 I was referencing the fact that ais523 refuses to google things and when presented with a URL usually asks the linker to summarise it for em. 20:02:28 Oh, he refuses to Google as well? 20:03:30 yes, whenever he asks a trivial question and I say "you could just google that in half the time and bother less people" he refuses. 20:05:04 ehird: I consider getting information from people more reliable than getting it from computers 20:05:21 (this is despite the fact that when I answer such questions I almost always use google) 20:05:36 But it's the human touch of the nickname next to it, isn't it. 20:05:50 oh, I assumed people were answering from personal knowledge 20:05:56 I know I usually do 20:06:07 or at least, if I look it up on the Internet, I already know which site/page to look on 20:06:30 I don't know half of the things you ask about, so of course I google them 20:06:51 and find an answer in a few seconds, vs the ~30 seconds it takes from you asking to me rewording and sending an answer from google. 20:15:02 i think the reason i hate googling and reading linked pages so much is that they take so long to open 20:15:08 because i have a crappy connection 20:15:27 oklopol: disable all css! 20:15:31 and images. 20:15:44 oh, and javascript. 20:15:47 and flash. 20:15:48 hard to make that slow. even on dialup. 20:15:49 i mean of course that's not my rational reason to hate googling, since it's still pretty *fast*, it's just annoying 20:16:01 i want things to be instant 20:16:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:16:10 so do ↑ :P 20:16:24 buttt 20:16:27 butt 20:18:38 -!- oklokok has joined. 20:19:08 out of interest, if i disable css, how will the browser inform the server about that? 20:19:15 hmm 20:19:17 oklopol: err 20:19:20 it just won't load css files 20:19:21 i guess it could just not load it. 20:19:22 yeah 20:19:26 if there's some inline in the page it will just ignore them 20:19:32 i forgot people usually separate them :P 20:19:48 not that i even know how to inline it 20:20:25 i mean if they were usually inlined, then obviously disabling wouldn't help 20:21:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:21:30 oklokok: it would slightly 20:21:33 since rendering time would be quicker 20:21:35 esp for complex css 20:21:38 due to the box model stuff 20:22:51 -!- Sneezle has joined. 20:22:52 -!- Sneezle has quit (Client Quit). 20:26:26 -!- Sneezle has joined. 20:27:05 -!- Sneezle has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:27:31 -!- Sneezle has joined. 20:27:53 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:31:58 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:32:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:32:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:34:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:36:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:37:58 Y'know, music radio is terrible. 20:38:32 yes. 20:38:36 There is exactly one station I can bear listening to. The local NPR syndicate. 20:38:41 Erm. Not syndicate. 20:38:44 But local NPR station. 20:39:48 (listening for emergency weather info) 20:40:08 have you guys ever considered living in a country where they don't get emergency weather. 20:40:16 :P 20:41:28 Moving is non-trivial. 20:41:36 Especially when you have *that* as a criteria. 20:43:00 Ah well. I can deal with listening to "Mozart Monday". 20:45:23 Now if only FM radio didn't suck, quality-wise. 20:45:43 just listen to internet radio. 20:46:21 Note: Internet not stable. 20:46:27 Also, bandwidth cap. 20:46:57 just listen to TCP/IP/FM radio 20:47:51 TCP-over-IP-over-FM :P 20:48:00 Yes. 20:48:06 That was my joke. 20:54:23 FM-over-IP-over-TCP 20:55:04 -over-FM 20:55:24 -over-AM 21:01:23 FM-over-AM??? >_O 21:01:53 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 21:02:00 :D 21:02:05 could work! 21:02:14 Sure. We send an audio waveform over AM, and modulate the frequency of that. 21:02:43 that's them combined, "over" would imply an asymmetric thingie 21:03:01 pikhq: nonono 21:03:04 just send FM data over AM 21:03:09 it'll just come in slower 21:03:12 so you'll have to buffer it 21:03:13 but i guess i'm only saying that because i was just about to say the exact same thing 21:03:26 xD 21:03:33 ehird: Does not work that way. 21:03:37 FM and AM are analog. 21:03:39 ff 21:03:40 i know that 21:03:44 god yall pedants 21:03:51 pikhq: FM-over-AM would give you a very low information rate 21:04:10 that's the point! 21:04:15 actually, only half what you'd get otherwise in a physically ideal situation 21:04:23 so just buffer it :P 21:04:29 -!- Judofyr__ has joined. 21:04:34 ais523: Yes, so you would have an *absurdly* low dynamic range. 21:04:49 just stretch it out 21:04:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:05:24 Y'know, music radio is terrible. <-- not in Sweden. We have classical music on P2 21:05:24 ehird: Congrats, you've increased the SNR, but not the dynamic range. 21:05:45 AnMaster: Yes, we have classical on NPR. And that's all there was worth listening to. 21:05:55 pikhq, unless they happen to broadcast news in minority languages 21:05:57 Is *good* rock too much to ask for? (yes) 21:06:07 NO SUCH THING 21:06:08 pikhq, yes, since it basically is so rare :P 21:06:10 rock sucks 21:06:13 CLASSICAL IS THE ONLY LISTENABLE THING EVERRRRRRRR 21:06:22 ALSO oklokok I THOUGHT YOU LIKED METAL. THAT'S THE SAME AS ROCK 21:06:26 ehird, nah, I like some baroque music too 21:06:34 and music from the romantic period 21:06:37 AnMaster: same thing 21:06:38 all of them 21:06:39 AnMaster: No, it's not. It's just not shoved on the radio much. 21:06:41 ehird, nah 21:06:47 Romantic is better than both. 21:06:48 AnMaster: And rock and metal aren't the same thing too. 21:06:51 GregorR, NO! 21:06:55 But let's play by your rules! 21:07:02 Classical=baroque=romantic. 21:07:07 It's all boring things with strings. 21:07:10 AnMaster: Yes! /me shoves borodin down your throat 21:07:11 Okay, what should I listen to after Kansas's "Magnum Opus". Hmm. 21:07:18 Just like rock and metal are both noisy things with distorted guitars. 21:07:27 ehird, I accepted that they may differ. Months ago 21:07:28 duh 21:07:33 "may" 21:07:36 ehird: And they're all soundy things with instruments that make notes 21:07:49 GregorR: They're all made of atoms 21:07:52 GregorR: You win an Egobot. 21:07:53 No, wait, plasma 21:07:56 They're all made of quarks 21:08:01 Also they're all energy 21:08:02 JUST LIKE TIME 21:08:05 ehird, well, personally I find it hard to notice the difference. But I accept an expert might notice it. 21:08:07 In conclusion, everything is the same. 21:08:10 AnMaster: "an expert" XD 21:08:11 ehird: They all ... ARE. 21:08:18 as i don't give an absolute shit about instruments, rock and metal have much less to do with each other than say metal and classical 21:08:21 GregorR: But what about things that aren't but might WILL BE. 21:08:24 They are all CONCEPTS. 21:08:38 i've probably mentioned my opinions on the matter though 21:08:40 o 21:08:40 o 21:08:40 o 21:08:40 o 21:08:40 o 21:08:41 o 21:08:43 o 21:08:43 oklokok: nonsense, metal is crude music for the hoi polloi 21:08:47 i've probably mentioned that too 21:08:47 oklokok: True. Of course, "rock" has a very, *very* loose definition. 21:08:51 in our ivory tower, classical is the only untouched beautyf 21:08:53 ehird, yes? I do agree that I'm not a noob on what in Swedish would be called "konstmusik", (english translation: "art music") 21:08:54 *beauty 21:08:58 pikhq: yes, but all of it sucks :P 21:09:17 AnMaster: anyone who has ever listened to either rock or metal can easily tell them apart. 21:09:19 oklokok: ... Lies. 21:09:30 yes 21:10:18 * pikhq shall listen to the overture from Tommy. 21:10:24 all concepts suck 21:10:26 You see, rocks are solid structures formed from minerals, whereas metals are elements are alloys which are electrically conductive. 21:10:34 what i conveice as "rock" is the stuff where the only actual melody is in the guitar solo, and the rest is trivial chord progressions, emphasis being on singing 21:10:34 Some rocks contain metals, however! 21:10:38 Actually, let's go for the whole thing. Whoo. 21:10:41 yes, conveice.- 21:10:43 *-- 21:10:57 oklokok: You've just defined most popular music throughout time :P 21:11:07 oklokok: Well, if that's the definition you're going with, yes, it almost *entirely* sucks. 21:11:09 Only s/guitar/lute/ if you go back far enough, and s/lute/fife/ eventually. 21:11:11 GregorR: i see no crucial difference between most pop and most rock 21:11:19 from topic "Why call it K", by arthur whitney 21:11:20 [[1. ken iverson 21:11:20 2. if he didn't like it he could go to L]] 21:11:26 oerjan should sue him. 21:11:34 By "popular music" I don't mean "pop" specifically, I mean "popular music" 21:11:52 well right, metal isn't like that 21:11:55 and classical istn' 21:11:56 *isn't 21:12:00 those are the ones i listen to 21:12:07 and some jazz, which isn't in that category either 21:12:07 oklokok: by your definition i don't listen to any rock 21:12:28 my definition might be wider, that's the definition of the kind of rock i dislike 21:12:33 if that makes sense 21:12:44 i feel so floody now 21:12:54 okokokokokokoko 21:12:56 okokoko 21:12:58 maybe i should stop liking all music in 4/4 21:13:00 o 21:13:00 o 21:13:01 o 21:13:01 o 21:13:01 o 21:13:01 o 21:13:03 o 21:13:05 o 21:13:07 o 21:13:09 o 21:13:12 I listen EXCLUSIVELY to music with prime denominators. 21:13:19 Prime, odd denominators. 21:13:40 i only like music in (1/3i)/4*sqrt(2)^(log_pi(e)) 21:13:44 took me ages to get a firm grip over 5/2^n and 7/2^n 21:13:50 -!- Judofyr has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:13:54 -!- Judofyr__ has changed nick to Judofyr. 21:14:00 oklokok: I said prime DENOMINATORS :P 21:14:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:14:18 i also like 11, after that it's just "random amount of beats" 21:14:38 i wonder what the sig i mentioned would be like :D 21:14:48 oklokok: Even with 5, it's usually better characterized as "three and two" or "four and one" 21:15:02 well, imaginary/ 21:15:04 so i guess nothing 21:15:09 GregorR: well right, i wasn't directly responding to you, but that does sound interesting... wait, actually it means nothing really 21:15:18 Pretty much :P 21:15:44 4/3 would just mean that for some idiot reason you have to write what you ought to write as quarter notes as quarter-note triplets :P 21:15:54 xD 21:16:05 "3 3 2 2" is how that one famous song does it 21:16:43 2..2..5.7.|2..2..0.1. 21:16:51 mission impossible? well dunno 21:18:12 http://www.kellamknives.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_9_16&products_id=597 WAAAAAAAAAAAANT 21:19:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:19:20 oklokok: isn't mission impossible 3 4 3 3 21:19:36 duh duh duhh, duh duh dah duh, duh duh duhh, dah duh duh 21:19:37 I'll just note that some of my favorite "rock" music is instrumental. 21:19:51 math rock is fun 21:19:52 with what melody? 21:20:21 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:20:21 Melody? Who needs it. 21:20:30 pikhq: no no i mean MI 21:20:38 Ah. 21:20:44 wait, i misremembered it. 21:20:45 heh. 21:21:02 well 3 + 4 + 3 + 3 = 13 21:21:11 which is impossible 21:21:24 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 21:23:15 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:25:41 oklokok: Okay, 9 minute in and there's been about 30 seconds of lyrics. Is that rock? :P 21:28:26 over 9 minutes is already way beyond my conception of basic rock 21:28:56 Then Pink Floyd is not rock. 21:29:28 well i associate the name with rock 21:29:37 And "Dark Side of the Moon", often called the greatest rock album, is not rock. 21:29:40 and i recall i didn't especially care of it 21:29:55 but really, i'm just saying my definition sucks. 21:30:04 Fair enough. 21:31:28 bah, who cares what genre it is? either you like it or you don't (well, or anything inbetween, really) 21:32:22 i suck at genres, and i agree. i just happen to know i dislike most rock and pop 21:32:50 but, i do even like some pop 21:33:17 for instance britney spears has many interesting melodies, about which people often disagree with me, for some reason 21:41:38 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Connection timed out). 21:42:53 * GregorR plays Borodin's Nocturne from String Quartet #2 21:43:29 oh you are a quartet now? 21:43:34 * pikhq is still playing "Dark Side of the Moon" 21:43:37 then i guess we'll get a recording of that one song of yours as well 21:43:50 * GregorR plays AN MP3 OF Borodin's Nocturne from String Quartet #2 21:46:51 Egh, this 4544x1280 desktop is taking some getting used to. 21:47:32 4544 8| 21:48:33 I used to have a perfectly reasonable 1024x1280 (pivot) + 1920x1200 pair, but then we had this 1600x1200 monitor and my wife wants it off the table it used to be on, and I don't want to just throw it away, and ... 21:48:55 so, 1600+1920+1024? 21:49:21 :D 21:49:21 Yes. And 1280 high, though the 80 lowest pixels are only visible on that pivoted monitor. 21:49:23 cool 21:50:12 I could actually fit in another 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 on this desk, I have a 1600x1200 and a 1920x1200 now 21:50:16 not sure I want to though 21:50:40 It's a bit annoying that the 1600x1200 and the 1920x1200 screens (20" and 24" nominally) have different pixel pitch; .255mm for the 20" one (100dpi) and .283mm or so (90dpi?) on the 24". 21:51:11 if you have overlapping windows, that is... I usually don't notice 21:51:41 Well, everything looks smaller on this screen; I'm not sure this setup is doing per-screen DPI correctly, since it's that nvidia's "merged as a single framebuffer" thing. 21:51:55 I like to keep "visible on all workspaces" windows, like browser+irc on the 1600x1200, and N*work on the 1920x1200 21:52:30 I think I have an overridden dpi value anyway, the defaults keep getting me insanely huge fonts 21:53:23 My standard 8pt DejaVu Sans Mono is a bit on the small side on the 20" screen, especially since it's further away. 21:54:23 xdpyinfo reports "screen #0: 3520x1200 pixels (961x321 millimeters), 93x95 dots per inch". 21:55:17 I guess it's just a sum of the widths, which is making the DPI value non-rectangular, since it's max(height1, height2) for the physical height. 21:55:33 that's ... *exactly* the pixel size, millimeter size and dpi as my setup 21:55:39 *non-square 21:56:23 Right. Non-rectangular would be more interesting, though. 21:56:38 Non-euclidean DPI, for the Lovecraft fans. 21:56:54 hexagon 21:57:14 hexagonal actually makes some kind of sense 21:57:53 in any case, it would be very cool to have hexagonal windows on a hexagonal screen 21:58:11 :D 21:58:14 omg i want 21:58:21 and hexagonal windows! 21:58:26 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 21:58:27 Sounds like one of those stupid sci-fi movies. 21:58:28 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 21:58:29 i mean 21:58:31 cool. 21:58:57 GregorR: *cool sci-fi movies 21:59:14 hey seriously, where can i get one of those 21:59:26 night 21:59:38 night 22:06:17 back 22:07:43 [21:46] fizzie: Egh, this 4544x1280 desktop is taking some getting used to. 22:07:45 holy fuck 22:07:45 want 22:08:04 i wanted too, until i heard about hexagons 22:08:28 oklokok: how about polygon displays 22:08:45 by which you mean what 22:10:07 -!- Judofyr has joined. 22:10:44 oklokok: instead of hexagon pixels, arbitrary polygon pixels 22:13:34 well i'm not that interested in hexagon pixels, actually 22:13:41 more the hexagon gui 22:13:48 it'd be hot 22:14:50 It's a bit tricky in that the 1600x1200+1920x1200 screens are on the PCI-E card, while the pivoted screen is on the on-motherboard Radeon; if I select "init PCI-E first" in bios, the on-chip graphics aren't visible at all, so I have to use the on-board graphics as the "primary" device, and therefore the linux text console ends up on the 90 degrees rotated monitor. 22:15:08 A framebuffer console could be rotated, but the text one doesn't know about things like that. 22:15:34 Fiddling in a working xorg.conf made my neck hurt already. 22:16:11 fizzie, can I just come over to wherever those screens are and like, use them? 22:16:17 i'll stay out of the way, i promise 22:16:59 I'm not sure how that would work. I could take you a photo, though compared to some of the billion-monitor setups seen in the interwebs this really isn't all that fancy. 22:17:15 basically, instead of you being there using the screens 22:17:17 i would be 22:18:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:19:08 I think I would, you know, notice. 22:20:05 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:20:37 Eh, enabling the onboard display added an audio device to the system. 22:20:49 "Radeon X1200 Series Audio Controller", it's used for the HDMI audio whatever. 22:22:03 fizzie: you could use another computer? 22:22:32 Will be interesting to see if this thing even supports twinview-for-two-monitors + xinerama-for-a-third, since twinview does some sort of fake-xinerama-info thing. 22:23:09 ehird: why were you reading about goodstein's theorem 22:23:30 just out of curiosity 22:23:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:23:54 oklokok: john tromp's website linked to it 22:26:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:28:52 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:29:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:31:26 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("mi co'a sipna .i co'o rodo"). 22:31:47 "(EE) RADEONHD(1): RHDMCSetupFBLocation: Cannot setup MC: not idle!!!" Well, that's not good, whatever it means. 22:33:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:39:57 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:41:39 And with the three-xinerama-screens variant it just goes "Screen 2 deleted because of no matching config section" and only uses two of the monitors. 23:00:01 http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_images/0507/29/912sh07.jpg / this isn't a phone, it's a tv 23:00:59 http://xkcd.com/624/ 23:01:02 Github for lesbians! 23:14:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:55:24 I think I'm going to make xkcdsuckssucks.blogspot.com :P 23:55:44 Oh wait it already exists X-D 23:55:54 Out of date though :P 23:57:05 Oh, it's owned by the same guy as xkcdsucks.blogspot.com P 23:57:06 *:P