2009-07-01: 00:01:08 Merry july everybody 00:01:37 ooh you're right. 00:01:56 Meh, just because you're GMT 00:02:12 I've been in july for a while now 00:02:27 GMT aka UTC? :P 00:02:33 UNIVERSAL JULY BITCH 00:02:57 UNIVERSAL JULY! It's July EVERYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE! 00:03:03 correct 00:04:48 -!- game16 has quit ("Leaving."). 00:05:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:06:04 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:09:10 -!- Pthing has joined. 00:20:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:26:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:32:27 So, I tried switching back to KDE for a bit... 00:32:46 And nearly vomited. So slow... 00:33:16 baaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrf 00:37:08 pikhq: ...Your computer sucks. 00:37:10 10:32:08 FYI #proglangdesign #ltu 00:37:11 lame 00:37:23 * ehird looks at first channel 00:37:25 Laaaaaaaaaaame. 00:37:47 * ehird looks at other channel 00:37:49 Almost identicaaaaaaaal. 00:38:01 10:56:12 we had a moon person in here a while ago 00:38:01 10:56:18 at least, someone who thought they were 00:38:06 for values of a while = two days ago, iirc 00:41:23 12:52:47 C is awful. Except for all the other systems programming languages out there. :P 00:41:24 o rly 00:41:25 HASKELL 00:41:36 12:53:31 Zuu! 00:41:36 12:53:34 Wtf are you doing here :-P 00:41:39 oh do you know who he is? 00:41:40 who is he? 00:42:34 oh he's from #d 00:43:03 12:55:04 take haskell, i'm sure it's great 12:55:11 if you like to masturbate to language design 00:43:06 * ehird kicks zid to death. 00:43:12 12:55:28 but is it.. useful? 00:43:18 * ehird mangles zid's brain to information-theoretic death. 00:43:29 No revival for you, bitch! 00:48:20 12:55:52 I've never seen anything written in haskhell, just people teling me how awesome something would be when written in haskell 00:48:25 was "haskhell" intentional? 00:48:33 zid is in #ltu? 00:49:30 #ltu: WE'RE TOO EDGY FOR JUST A WEBLOG 00:49:41 ALSO ABBREVIATIONS RULE 00:51:16 * pikhq needs a good GUI environment. 00:51:39 Or just nuke X from orbit. 00:51:45 I could tolerate that. 00:51:46 12:58:05 Zuu: Go to #c++. 00:51:52 me me me me! 00:51:54 but #c++ has goedi! 00:51:57 It's written in Haskell! 00:51:59 Oh noes, not C++ 00:52:14 But geordi is poo :< 00:52:22 pikhq: Step 1. Get OS X's GUI source leaked. Step 2. Spend hours porting to Linux. 00:52:24 Step 3. Get sued 00:52:32 Step 4. I AM IN A JAIL CELL CALLED "HAMLET" 00:52:36 WASHING NASAL DEMONS 00:52:37 * Zuu wonders if ehird is a bottie 00:52:50 Zuu: Nay! I am but a. 00:53:04 Eh ? 00:53:25 * Zuu cuddles ehird ^^ 00:53:34 ehird: Not good enough. 00:53:43 Zuu: Forsooth! Make tenners to be like a flower; but no? 00:53:48 pikhq: Use Plan 9 00:53:48 I'm starting to think current GUI metaphors are t3h suck. 00:53:55 Tempting. 00:54:03 Or maybe just Plan 9 from Userspace. 00:54:05 Also, they are; but there's nothing above concept-stage in anything else. 00:54:06 ehird, is that an advanced way to ask if i'll marry you? 00:54:13 OS X at least makes using the current rubbish model OK 00:54:21 Zuu: No; 'tis but a languishing swamp demon. 00:54:36 pikhq: Naw, not userspace. You need the ubiquitous files and toolset to take advantage of p9's ui. 00:54:50 * Zuu has a hard time interpreting ehird's eso-english 00:54:54 About the only alternative that's well-developed is tiling window managers. ... And those are niche at best. 00:55:06 Also they're not very ergonomic. 00:55:25 Zuu: But flies are like a sun, and every solar system calls their star sun, just like every base calls theirs 10, because you can fly a lot, see? 00:55:49 Wth... 00:56:08 * Zuu steals all ehird's poems and eats them :> 00:56:21 Thar! 00:56:30 Zuu: Eating disallowed; a cake perhaps barred from judging murder in case of a fire/ 00:56:32 Enough of the nonsense :) 00:57:15 My brain gets overloaded with all this weird sentence compositions 00:57:22 *these 00:57:54 * Zuu is allergic to incomprehensible stuff 00:58:55 Zuu: Sentences mutate, morphed gluttery flobs in your gut. Only then may the window look at itself, but you know all about 'pataphysics, so essentially it's combinatorics, a bun, a death, and two and a half pennies for dinner. 00:59:32 * Zuu pat pats ehird :) 01:00:14 Zuu: But what most people don't realise is that Cuil is a legitimate search engine of panties. 01:00:43 While that does sound slightly interresting, i wonder if it means the same to you as it does to me 01:02:08 Zuu: Questions are a folly of multitude; mayhaps if the hunter-gatherers were astronauts instead we could get some cold porridge. 01:03:20 mayhaps 01:03:24 Hehe 01:04:42 Zuu: …insipid people are usually the target of such things, but I am wont to ask if we have not been misunderestimating such potential value as to move into a framework beyond atoms, particles and suchlike: maybe if we abandoned these antediluvian concepts, it would be an eclipsing bonanza for all who might attend (although I note that some who attend would not be pleased, as some people can find fault in anything; but I digress). 01:05:12 im afraid i dont care to read that :/ 01:05:19 quick, find a cylon base ship and plug him in 01:05:41 i wont understand 50% of it anuways, and i dont care to rape a dictionary for that sole purpose 01:07:48 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 01:07:51 Zuu: Hellfire! Brimstone! My, my, we've been busy lately; this Hell business sure seems Popular — with a capital P, you understand (am I pompous if I extend this capital-p starting concept to "capital punishment"? I hope not, for I am about to do so) — but would you be so fine as to make sure that only those who die get here? Specifically, those doing bad deeds; capital punishment may be a good indicator. It's nice, and all, and I am, after all, God, 01:07:53 so I would know, but I don't really like how you're picking living people from Earth. It kind of disturbs their faith in me. But, really, good work, just keep it for the dead people, okay? 01:08:30 He's unstoppable, he must be a bot 01:09:13 Zuu: Ha! Fathom such a prithee concept, but I doubt you could or couldn't depending on the weather; generally data dependencies condition on something much more uninteresting and/or valuable. I guess that's just how the world works on Tuesdays. 01:10:28 a bot on the left half of the world map 01:11:23 Zuu: I tend to disregard such concepts; they are for the old world, and I, why I am of the New World! Honey, milk, you know the deal! I'm like a rapping, gangsta, Hitler God. 01:12:05 fungot: do you agree? speak your mind! 01:12:06 Asztal: feed it birth control pills and water once a month, but perhaps it is something medical 01:13:27 Uh. 01:13:31 That's a weird diet. 01:13:37 ...Hey, fungot snapped me out of that. 01:13:38 ehird: " go study some cs you idiot"... ping timeout" 01:13:50 Ha@ 01:13:52 *Ha! 01:17:11 lament: no, never been, what is it? 01:19:24 zid: it has icky non-practical masturbatory language design people from lambda-the-ultimate.org 01:19:28 they like haskell. and scheme. 01:19:34 (zid dies of disgust) 01:19:36 oh god 01:19:49 I bet the smug just OOOZES 01:19:52 you could bottle it 01:21:54 zid 01:21:57 do you realise 01:22:03 this channel is about esoteric programming languages — 01:22:06 deliberately unusable ones 01:22:10 deliberately "masturbatory" 01:22:17 deliberately exploring the edges of programming language design — 01:22:23 lol 01:22:25 why are you here if you have such a desperate phobia of such things? 01:22:40 if befunge is 'exploring the edges of programming language design' then damn 01:23:14 It's pointless for pointless sake, not pointless pretending to not be 01:23:28 they're the opposite of the spectrum 01:24:16 because befunge is the only esolang? 01:24:33 you're just an idiot obsessed with what's popular; a language is only viable if everyone else uses it too, QED 01:24:39 you're saying haskell and brainfuck serve the same goal? 01:24:42 haskell is masturbatory bullshit because in my bubble i don't hear anyone using it 01:24:45 it's idiotic 01:24:50 zid: i never said that 01:25:01 then why couldn't one like brainfuck but not like haskell 01:25:43 alas the point went over your head utterly. 01:25:56 You'll have to dumb it down a bit then 01:29:00 I shall now interrupt this ridiculous conversation with a monologue from Oedipus Tyrannus, by Sophocles. 01:29:16 I am the son of Polybus, who reigns at Corinth, and the Dorian Merope his queen; there long I held the foremost rank, honoured and happy, when a strange event (for strange it was, though little meriting the deep concern I felt) alarmed me much: 01:29:18 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/03bb/index.htm 01:29:20 lamda not lambda? 01:29:23 unicode typo? 01:29:33 A drunken reveller at a feast proclaimed that I was only the supposed son or Corinth's king. Scarce could I bear that day the vile reproach. The next, I sought my parents and asked of them the truth; they too, enraged, resented much the base indignity. 01:30:06 GregorR: Sorry, I was busy giggling and being told i'm obsessed with what's popular after admitting I use mainly C and befunge :P 01:30:06 I liked their tender warmth, but still I felt a secret anguish, and, unknown to them, sought out the Pythian oracle. In vain. Touching my parents nothing could I learn; but dreadful were the miseries it denounced against me. 'Twas my fate, Apollo said, to wed my mother, to produce a race accursed and abhorred; and last, to slay my father who begat me. 01:30:09 night guys 01:30:23 befunge is fun, but not brilliant 01:30:25 Uhh, C isn't popular? 01:30:40 Sad decree! Lest I should e'er fulfil the dire prediction, instant I fled from Corinth, by the stars guiding my hapless journey to the place where thou report'st this wretched king was slain. But I will tell thee the whole truth. At length 01:30:41 I came to where the three ways meet, when, lo! A herald, with another man like him whom thou describ'st, and in a chariot, met me. 01:31:13 Both strove with violence to drive me back; enraged, I struck the charioteer, when straight, as I advanced, the old man saw, and twice smote me o' th' head, but dearly soon repaid the insult on me; from his chariot rolled prone on the earth, beneath my staff he fell, and instantly expired! 01:31:27 Are we done yet, can I stop this :P 01:31:49 Yes, O Wise GregorR, decreer of reasonability and obnoxious floods to end. 01:35:05 i need bread! 01:35:26 * Zuu gives nooga some icecream 01:35:37 Zuu? 01:35:53 yes? 01:36:53 wtf are you? 01:37:36 * Zuu find it strange that everyone in here seem to be asking that question 01:39:18 But alright: I'm me, Mostly human, Alive, Awake, Bored and wondering 01:39:38 now, what are you nooga ? 01:39:51 an idiot 01:39:58 except from in need of bread 01:40:08 .. and icecream onyour face 01:40:23 .. sorry, didnt know where else to put it 01:41:46 > let n = pi in foldl (+) 0 (zipWith (\x y -> y*n**x/(product[1..x])) [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])) 01:41:55 mueval-core: Prelude.read: no parse 01:41:55 mueval: ExitFailure 1 01:42:03 vooot? 01:43:00 > let n = pi in foldl (+) [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] cycle [1,-1]] 01:43:03 Couldn't match expected type `[b]' 01:43:23 > let n = pi in foldl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 01:43:31 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:43:40 AHAHHAAHHA!! 01:43:46 killed it 01:44:29 i thought that lambdabot is bulletproof 01:44:40 peer got 'im. 01:44:43 That bastard. 01:45:15 Hehe 01:46:23 > let n = pi in foldl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 01:48:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:57:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:02:16 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 02:21:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:24:39 Note the "" part; I was replying to him. <-- requoting lines with "<--" in them is darn confusing... 02:24:54 (that <-- was mine btw) 02:30:25 * oerjan hates it when he clicks somewhere in a slowly loading browser window to ensure it gets proper focus, and at that moment an ad shows up just there, outside the main frame 02:31:45 Ads? Web pages have ads? Oh yeah, I remember those. 02:32:13 i don't mind ads as long as they don't sneak up on me unwittingly :D 02:33:50 Ads? Web pages have ads? Whoa. 02:34:02 > let n = pi/2 in (foldl (+) 0 . take 5) [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:34:06 I thought I was installing Adblock out of habit. 02:34:14 pikhq: Same 'ere! 02:34:16 WHERE IS LAMBDABOT?!?!! 02:34:18 nooga: no lambdabot :( 02:34:27 i killed it 02:34:31 !haskell let n = pi/2 in (foldl (+) 0 . take 5) [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:34:34 1.0000035425842861 02:34:36 nooga: Wrong. 02:34:46 nooga: in #haskell usually. btw you can private message it 02:34:51 nooga: > let n = pi in foldl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:34:51 02:43 lambdabot has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:35:01 forgot take 02:35:07 nooga: it only came here by special request 02:35:38 also !haskell is fine as long as you only use Prelude functions, otherwise you'll need some imports 02:36:03 !haskell mport Data.List; 02:36:09 I WAS EDITING THAT. 02:36:15 sure you were 02:37:32 nooga: btw i'm pretty sure sum = foldl (+) 0, precisely. 02:38:18 lambdabot confirms so 02:38:18 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:38:30 !haskell let n = pi/2 in abs $ sin n - (sum . take 15) [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:38:32 2.220446049250313e-16 02:38:42 pikhq: small difference 02:38:57 !haskell let n = pi/2 in (sum . take 15) [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:38:58 1.0000000000000002 02:39:05 nooga: ? 02:39:21 pikhq: nooga: Wrong. 02:40:12 ... 02:40:16 What of it? 02:40:27 i thought the result is wrong 02:42:36 !haskell import Data.List;main=print$let n = pi/2 in take 15 . scanl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:42:45 gah 02:43:42 what the heck would be wrong with the syntax there... 02:44:25 !haskell let n = pi/2 in take 15 . scanl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:44:32 oh right 02:44:45 !haskell import Data.List;main=print$let n = pi/2 in take 15 $ scanl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:44:48 [0.0,1.5707963267948966,0.9248322292886504,1.0045248555348174,0.9998431013994987,1.0000035425842861,0.999999943741051,1.0000000006627803,0.9999999999939768,1.0000000000000437,1.0,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002] 02:45:04 too bad scanl is one of the non-Prelude functions 02:45:14 brb, sleep 02:45:33 heh it gives 1.0 exactly for one moment 02:46:14 !haskell scanl 02:46:29 !haskell main=scanl 02:46:52 what the HECK? 02:47:20 * oerjan facepalms at that error message 02:47:36 !haskell main=print scanl 02:47:41 XD 02:47:55 it seems scanl is Prelude anyhow 02:48:37 !haskell let n = pi/2 in take 15 $ scanl (+) 0 [y*n**x/(product[1..x]) | (x,y) <- zip [1,3..] (cycle [1,-1])] 02:48:39 [0.0,1.5707963267948966,0.9248322292886504,1.0045248555348174,0.9998431013994987,1.0000035425842861,0.999999943741051,1.0000000006627803,0.9999999999939768,1.0000000000000437,1.0,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002,1.0000000000000002] 02:49:24 !haskell scanl 02:50:05 apparently that line _really_ messes up something X/ 02:50:13 !haskell scanl 02:50:27 !haskell scanl 02:50:51 !haskell main=scanl 02:51:07 !haskell main=main 02:51:20 finally it actually gave the sensible error 02:51:46 main=main should just be an infinite loop 02:51:53 possibly detected 02:52:27 Yeah. 02:54:01 Let's see how little Haskell I remember ... 02:54:15 !haskell main=putStr "Hello" >>= main 02:54:39 !haskell main=putStr "Hello" >> main 02:54:48 Oh yeah, doesn't have input... 02:54:50 -!- coppro has joined. 02:54:58 i'm sure that'll hit EgoBot's not-doing-anything-without-a-return "feature" 02:55:36 If it flushed output, it'd work *shrugs* 02:55:38 well, with >> anyhow 02:55:40 >>= is Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b), IIRC. 02:55:54 Erm. 02:56:06 >>= is Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b. 03:12:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:00:23 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 04:18:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:38:34 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 04:38:46 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:00:44 -!- fungebob_ has quit (Client Quit). 06:03:11 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 06:10:41 -!- coppro has joined. 07:00:29 literally every link in /r/jailbait is purple :( 07:01:06 ...wrong channel 07:08:29 -!- Associat0r has joined. 07:46:27 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 07:50:54 -!- Associat0r has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:23:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:25:03 -!- calamari has joined. 08:31:40 -!- Judofyr has joined. 08:33:33 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 08:37:09 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:17:13 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:21:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:23:31 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:28:55 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:58:08 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:20:19 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 12:09:01 Deewiant and/or fizzie: what is the best way to make a C style switch in befuge? The range is continuous and rather small (7 different cases). 12:09:17 all I can think of are rather bulky variants 12:09:18 The jump table, I guess. 12:09:38 fizzie, oh with j you mean? Hm could work 12:10:07 Just the arithmetics to move the range to [0, 6] and then something like >... jvvvvvvv with the different cases below that. 12:10:09 someone should make a page with befunge idioms. Like >:#,_ and such 12:10:20 fizzie, it is already in the range 0-6 12:10:29 :) 12:10:32 Well, that's even easier then. 12:10:44 though, it would be better to make it vertical in this case 12:10:59 That's up to you, of course. 12:12:38 There's at least two jump tables in fungot; one is the very visible triangle a bit before the middle part (there's not really a reason to have a triangle there except that it looks nice -- the "actions" themselves could be vertical just fine) and one vertically oriented one in the BF "bytecode" interpreter a bit after the "PROG EXECS:" comment. 12:12:38 fizzie: people like christopher rhodes effectively kill off hope for compilation to efficient code") gives me an error 12:14:59 AnMaster: Since it's continuous, j. 12:15:03 If it's not, binary search with w. 12:18:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:26:49 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:28:33 Ooh, that sounds nice. Maybe I should've used that instead of the if-elseif-elseif-else chain I have in fungot's Underload interp. 12:28:34 fizzie:))) would be more accurate to say that 12:33:51 fizzie: See, you shouldn't be so hostile against w. :-P 12:50:24 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:51:00 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:55:49 Deewiant, w would make a nicely visual search tree too! 12:56:01 how do you make it balanced 12:56:19 I mean, I know the stuff about tree rotations and such, but I don't remember how you decide when to rotate a tree or not 12:56:58 You just write it in a balanced way from the start :-P 12:58:40 Deewiant, yeah I meant, how do you figure out how to make it a balanced tree. 12:59:30 You have all the data from the start, so split it evenly both ways.. 12:59:35 iirc fizzie is hostile against most befunge98 things except fingerprints? 12:59:40 I might misremember 13:08:54 That is mostly true, yes. 13:09:42 Although I'm not sure "hostile" is entirely the correct word. I don't carry a "DOWN WITH HERETIC FUNGE-98"/"GOD HATES FUNGE-98" signs around, for example. 13:19:36 you should, I'd like to see the reactions 13:20:40 Asztal, something like "what is that?" 13:21:00 fizzie, you use i and o in fungot too at least 13:21:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:21:01 AnMaster: do you got anything written down, i have to do is collect everything into a vector? 13:24:09 Also [a-f], j. '. But not any of [];nqrsuwxyz{} I think. Maybe k. 13:24:35 Or t, of course. 13:25:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:26:50 "; considered harmful", heh. 13:29:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:37:36 ; are pretty deadly in nethack 14:01:31 hah 14:13:22 -!- Pthing has joined. 14:21:11 -!- sebbu has quit ("part sur paris pour la japan expo - rentre le 07/07/09 en fin d'après midi"). 15:05:05 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:05:08 -!- rodgort has joined. 15:10:36 -!- Associ8or has joined. 15:12:06 -!- Associ8or has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:19:17 -!- Associ8or has joined. 15:28:30 -!- Associat0r has quit (Success). 15:32:47 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:50:50 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:01:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:02:40 !sh ls bin 16:02:41 /bin/ls: cannot access bin: No such file or directory 16:02:47 !sh ls 16:02:47 interps 16:03:15 !sh ls interps 16:03:15 1l 16:03:47 !sh echo interps/ghc/* 16:03:47 interps/ghc/runghc 16:04:09 !cat interps/ghc/* 16:04:18 oops 16:04:37 !ls -l interps/ghc/* 16:04:45 oh 16:04:48 !sh ls -l interps/ghc/* 16:04:49 /bin/ls: interps/ghc/runghc: Function not implemented 16:05:04 !sh cat interps/ghc/* 16:05:05 #!/bin/bash 16:07:45 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:08:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:09:42 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 16:20:42 ehird: I'm amused by how your flame at Harrop has already got 5 points 16:23:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:23:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:24:14 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 16:29:28 -!- inurinternet has quit (Success). 16:29:48 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:30:46 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:47:34 -!- inurinternet has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:47:34 -!- rodgort has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:47:34 -!- M0ny has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:47:35 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:47:35 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:47:59 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:47:59 -!- rodgort has joined. 16:47:59 -!- M0ny has joined. 16:47:59 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 16:47:59 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 17:23:26 -!- inurinternet has quit. 17:35:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:37:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:48:36 -!- M0ny has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:48:52 -!- M0ny has joined. 17:55:10 comment karma: -1056 17:55:13 impressive 17:57:49 lol 17:59:31 * oerjan considers adding Harrop's disliked posts to his favorites. Well, almost. 17:59:32 trollface.jpg 18:31:28 oerjan, who? 18:31:51 or what 18:32:52 is there any functional language without garbage collectionj 18:32:55 collection* 18:35:15 AnMaster: John D. Harrop, the person ehird just flamed on reddit. Shameless ocaml/F# advertiser iiuc 18:35:49 heh what a mix... 18:36:27 basically my impression was he seems to downvote every _other_ PL discussion than his favorite languages, so the top of the list was an interesting haskell post i had missed :D 18:36:44 what do you mean mix? 18:38:36 AnMaster: functional language without garbage collection makes only a little sense, since free use of functional idioms means object lifetimes quickly become undecidable without it. 18:39:44 although there are implementations that attempt to minimize gc with things like region inference 18:40:34 AnMaster: functional language without garbage collection makes only a little sense, since free use of functional idioms means object lifetimes quickly become undecidable without it. <-- I'm well aware of this 18:40:42 which is why I wondered if there is a GC free one 18:40:43 or rather 18:41:06 one with completely manual memory management for the functional bits 18:41:32 oerjan, ocaml+F# 18:41:47 F# is ocaml for .NET 18:41:58 oerjan, source code compatible? 18:42:06 i'm not sure 18:42:24 not completely anyway 18:42:44 since it adds support for .NET types 18:42:56 but i know little more about F# 18:43:38 oh i vaguely recall it also removes functors, or something like that 18:43:52 hmhm 18:43:56 mhm* 18:45:07 I could've sworn that garbage collecting was straight-up required for functional programming? 18:45:43 pikhq, well, you could possibly figure out some stuff will be dead by end of function and thus compile it into an allocation on the stack instead 18:45:48 or similar 18:46:12 I would be surprised if at least ghc and ocaml didn't do that sort of stuff. 18:46:16 * AnMaster looks at oerjan 18:46:17 I *guess* if you just assumed naught but lambdas you could maybe do it... 18:46:47 er i'm pretty sure lambdas are the source of the problem, actually, or closures rather 18:47:08 returning a function definitely can cause problems yeah 18:47:31 well yeah closure to be specific 18:47:37 Closures? Who said anything about closures? 18:47:42 you could of course return a function pointer without problems 18:47:47 That's not a lambda. 18:47:53 pikhq: lambda expressions are closures in their purest form 18:48:38 so evaulating lambda calculus requires a GC? 18:48:48 Oh, right. Closures. Why did I think 'continuation' when I saw that? XD 18:48:48 sure 18:49:35 although reference counting suffices. or you could copy the next step somewhere... but that would be inefficient. 18:51:39 "zealot" was the word i couldn't remember when telling who harrop was 18:53:15 iirc he has admitted to willfully using disruptive postings to promote his services 18:53:47 so it's not just a strong opinion, but essentially commercial spamming 18:56:48 Oh, right. Closures. Why did I think 'continuation' when I saw that? XD <-- you aren't alone to confuse them... 18:57:25 well in a channel where people cannot distinguish GregorR and Gracenotes ... 18:57:36 * oerjan ducks 18:57:51 I have precedence over 'Gr' because it's my ACTUAL, HUMAN NAME :P 18:58:05 Your name is Gr? 18:58:10 >_< 18:58:16 his parents were weird 18:58:16 I have precedence over 'Gr' because it's /the beginning of/ my ACTUAL, HUMAN NAME :P 18:58:30 Well, it is in that it's my first and last initials: GR :P 18:58:30 What's with the egorR-L? Crappy last name or something? 18:58:35 GregorR, iirc I heard of someone known as "Grace", and I can't see why you can't have "Notes" as a family name. 18:58:48 Considering how many strange family names there are 18:58:51 AnMaster: Sure. But Gracenotes is, IIRC, male :P 18:59:01 (Whereas "Grace" is a female name) 18:59:03 GregorR, right 18:59:07 yes I know 18:59:07 Awesome, I want a dash in my last name too 18:59:21 AnMaster: BTW, you think family names here are weird, wait till you check out Japanese ones. 18:59:25 FireFly: Nonono, it's hyphenated. My dad's last name is egorR, my mom's is L 18:59:31 I see 18:59:31 pikhq, I wouldn't know what they mean 18:59:33 Most of them were invented in the late 1800s. 18:59:33 Still, mixed case 19:00:50 -!- Slereah has quit. 19:05:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:06:59 bbl food 19:13:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:33:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 19:41:09 -!- olsner has joined. 19:44:59 -!- coppro has joined. 19:58:37 why is lambda in scheme called that? 20:01:27 it isn't *that* closely related to lambda as far I understand? 20:01:45 or maybe it is 20:14:47 anmaster: sure it is 20:15:00 its just an n-ary lambda, thats all. 20:25:07 augur, ah right 20:28:43 * AnMaster found some music that he thinks ehird will like 20:29:01 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:34:48 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:43:40 err 20:43:47 sourceforge was redesigned again? 20:44:03 what the hell 20:44:10 augur, you noticed? 20:49:32 There was that email about it. 20:49:37 I jumped ship from Sourceforge a long time ago. 20:49:50 It's soooo terrible right now (or maybe this latest redesign was an improvement?) 20:50:06 YIKES 20:50:08 Not an improvement. 20:50:24 "On Tuesday 2009-06-30 at 16:00 UTC, we will be testing the first phase of our new consumer (user) pages." Then they'll revert it, and then launch on Wednesday 2009-07-01. I guess this might be the actual launch now. 20:50:47 What they say they're doing is: "We have received feedback from you and your fellow project administrators that we need an easier path for users to download your software." 20:50:51 Is it easier now? 20:51:03 There's a giant green "Download now!" button. 20:51:17 Well, couldn't be much easier than that! 20:51:48 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:59:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:00:10 Sourceforge redesigned *again*? 21:00:32 Must've taken another hit of the Enterprise. 21:06:05 anmaster: you think i go on sourceforge? 21:06:07 how cute. 21:06:56 That is an amusing way of compiling C to JVM... 21:07:08 Have GCC compile to MIPS. Compile MIPS to JVM. 21:07:15 augur, ? 21:07:29 AnMaster: i do not visit sourceforge. 21:07:31 augur, you generally end up having to download some project from there every now and then 21:07:39 not really! 21:08:09 There's a giant green "Download now!" button. <--- that was there before? 21:08:10 their new site makes me thing: crappy file hosting site/url squatter 21:08:20 augur, the new one yes 21:08:23 augur: Yes, exactly. 21:08:33 it looks like a mix between that and github 21:08:34 somehow 21:08:54 long live bzr and hg! 21:09:12 launchpad has keept almost the same design for years now 21:09:16 only minor changes 21:14:18 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:28:28 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:45:29 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:45:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:14:04 AnMaster: cfunge fails for files with mac line endings 22:17:45 Mac line endings fail. 22:17:51 Both metaphorically and quite literally. 22:18:21 Deewiant, what version? 22:18:26 Trunk 22:18:37 Deewiant, can you filebin the file in question 22:18:46 because I tested it on mycology converted to CR line endings 22:18:48 it works 22:19:34 Deewiant, pastebin won't work, they mangle 22:19:37 needs a filebin 22:19:44 or upload with scp or similiar 22:20:09 * AnMaster waits 22:20:45 AnMaster: 1-:#v_@ 22:20:50 Deewiant, filebin 22:20:56 Why the fuck would I filebin that 22:21:04 Deewiant, there is no line ending at all in that you pasted 22:21:18 It's a line of text, it ends in a newline 22:21:56 Deewiant, it is an infinite loop? 22:22:03 or at least it never seems to end here 22:22:10 AnMaster: Your loader infinite loops. 22:22:22 Deewiant, I was using LF line endings here to test it... 22:22:24 first 22:22:37 tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=0: v (118) 22:22:37 Stack has 1 elements, top 5 (or less) elements: 22:22:37 -1 22:22:42 infinite loop yeah for LF 22:22:43 Oh, you're right, that one doesn't trigger it :-( 22:22:46 lets try CR 22:22:50 Bah! 22:23:10 * AnMaster runs recode /CR test.b98 22:23:19 exact same result 22:23:32 Deewiant, closing bug as INVALID 22:23:48 AnMaster: Shut up, I told you the case was flawed 22:23:52 > v 22:23:52 ^ < 22:23:55 Deewiant, please reopen if you have a working test case 22:23:59 AnMaster: ^. 22:24:00 okay... 22:24:21 Including the leading spaces. 22:24:25 right... 22:24:40 infinite loop with LF as expected 22:24:43 * AnMaster recodes 22:24:51 same result with CR? 22:25:13 Deewiant, I'm sorry, I can't reproduce, I get an infinite loop in the program according to the trace. Not in the loader 22:25:22 and that infinite loop is expected 22:25:34 AnMaster: It's not the loader, I misspoke. The trace says that the v never finds the <. 22:25:44 tix=0 tid=0 x=20 y=0: v (118) 22:25:45 Stack is empty. 22:25:45 tix=0 tid=0 x=20 y=1: < (60) 22:25:45 Stack is empty. 22:25:48 looks like it does to me? 22:25:54 Deewiant, sure you are actually using the last trunk 22:26:06 please pastebin ./cfunge -v 22:26:16 Given that I updated it fifteen minutes ago... yes 22:26:26 Deewiant, please pastebin output of ./cfunge -v 22:26:46 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:26:55 AnMaster: zsh: no such file or directory: ./cfunge 22:27:08 Deewiant, well, relevant path then 22:27:12 you know what I meant 22:27:33 It has the wrong uname. 22:27:39 But screw it. 22:27:43 oh? 22:28:06 http://www.pastie.org/private/sxj29wgewpmqvhfdzbahja 22:28:12 thanks 22:28:51 Deewiant, what bit was the wrong uname btw? 22:29:13 The bit that has the uname -r. 22:29:46 Deewiant, mhm. Since I use cmake to figure it out I guess I forgot to account for cmake caching the result of that check 22:29:57 will look at that later 22:30:19 Deewiant, okay, can reproduce it now. *debugs 22:30:27 Great. *sleeps 22:31:01 (gdb) call fungespace_dump() 22:31:01 Positive fungespace follows: 22:31:01 > v 22:31:01 ^ < 22:31:03 right 22:31:11 * AnMaster wonders why 22:31:58 oh right 22:32:24 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:33:10 easy to fix 22:33:14 a three line change 22:34:17 Deewiant, fix pushed 22:37:41 That looks like four added lines to me! 23:08:59 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 23:20:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 23:31:29 hello 23:31:39 * ehird notices people mentioning his flame in the backlog. Gee, I'm famous. 23:32:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:32:30 -!- augur has joined. 23:33:30 06:00 bsmntbombdood: literally every link in /r/jailbait is purple :( 23:33:30 06:01 bsmntbombdood: ...wrong channel 23:33:31 lawl 23:34:36 ehird, so very wrong channel 23:34:39 17:35 oerjan: AnMaster: John D. Harrop, the person ehird just flamed on reddit. Shameless ocaml/F# advertiser iiuc 23:34:43 he does it — and he has said this — 23:34:47 to generate business for his company 23:34:52 in his deluded, fuckheaded world, this actually works. 23:34:58 in the real one, he's just an intolerable idiot 23:35:27 ehird, why don't they ban him? 23:36:24 19:28 AnMaster found some music that he thinks ehird will like 23:36:25 o rly 23:36:40 19:43 AnMaster: sourceforge was redesigned again? 23:36:41 19:44 AnMaster: what the hell 23:36:43 looks like github. 23:37:41 their new site makes me thing: crappy file hosting site/url squatter 23:37:43 looks like github. 23:37:44 :D 23:37:48 -!- M0ny has quit. 23:38:05 ehird, as for that music.. 23:38:33 ehird, https://freedroid.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/freedroid/sound/music/Bleostrada.ogg <-- do you like it? 23:38:56 I don't 23:40:37 23:34 AnMaster: ehird, so very wrong channel // yeah, I believe that was destined for #reddit 23:40:51 23:35 AnMaster: ehird, why don't they ban him? // who? he's everywhere 23:40:59 23:37 AnMaster: :D // shush, someone else said github too 23:41:07 i thought squatter at first 23:41:09 too 23:41:13 i'll listen in a sec. 23:41:33 ehird, prediction: in one year's time, it will be big news if a week passes without a redesign of sourceforge 23:41:41 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8xaas/how_did_i_not_find_this_language_years_ago/c0aq1g9, btw, is his comment and my flame 23:41:48 "colostomy bag" now ranks among my favourite insults 23:42:55 wow, OCaml for Scientists actually costs £85 23:43:01 i didn't realise it was _that_ expensive 23:43:03 jeez harrop 23:44:42 AnMaster: downloading that thar ogg 23:45:23 wow, OCaml for Scientists actually costs £85 <--? 23:45:32 Jon Harrop's shitty book. 23:45:35 ah 23:45:45 £85 is a ridiculous price; most programming books are like £30 23:47:28 AnMaster: that song is ok. i mean, i like the basic style, but it's still of typical game music quality 23:47:35 s/song/track/ for accuracy 23:47:49 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8xaas/how_did_i_not_find_this_language_years_ago/ <-- what do you think about the actual thing it links to? 23:48:08 it's a rather typical i-love-lisp post. not particularly interesting. 23:48:09 I never found scheme and pascal similar... 23:48:19 I programmed in pascal yes 23:48:21 they are, in a perverse way 23:48:25 ehird, oh? 23:48:38 sure. pascal's how to do it the wrong way ;-) 23:48:57 [though original pascal, really, wasn't all that bad a language] 23:49:01 haha 23:49:15 ehird, delphi is pascal gone really really bad 23:49:24 but I coded in other pascal variants too 23:49:29 delphi is really .awful 23:49:31 *really awful. 23:49:34 ehird, indeed 23:49:39 i need to learn to write sentences linearly 23:49:55 it's especially annoying on the iphone 23:50:00 i wrote that flame on it and it took like 3 minutes 23:50:07 constantly trying to reposition the cursor 23:50:27 ehird 23:50:30 have i mentioned 23:50:31 <3u 23:50:40 not recently. 23:50:43 ARGH 23:50:44 well 23:50:46 <3u 23:50:47 RIP Karl Malden 23:50:56 STOP DYING, CELEBRITIES 23:50:57 STOP IT 23:51:00 whos karl malden 23:51:01 2009 is a fun year for dying. 23:51:06 augur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Malden 23:51:15 yeah i wkipedi-ae-d it. 23:51:20 man what i dont even know this guy 23:51:34 IT'S OKAY, BILLY MAYS IS MORE IMPORTANT 23:51:44 We're all too young to have known Karl Malden :P 23:51:46 But still. 23:51:48 i need to learn to write sentences linearly <-- How do you write them then 23:51:52 Stop dying, celebrities! STOP IT! 23:51:58 If I was a celebrity, I'd be worried right now. 23:52:04 billy mays is so more important 23:52:09 RIP Karl Malden STOP DYING, CELEBRITIES <-- should I know who this is? 23:52:09 AnMaster: I write a basic outline or the whole thing if it's simple enough, then bat around correcting errors and rewriting and adding and removing 23:52:13 * AnMaster has no clue 23:52:21 anmaster 23:52:30 As a Swede less than 50 years old, no :P 23:52:43 what he does is, he constructs the semantic content of the sentence in semi-graph form 23:53:10 then he applies a transformation algorithm that linearizes the graph, producing a set of potential sentences 23:53:10 augur: i'm not sure that will help :) 23:53:11 heh 23:53:25 augur, that makes perfect sense 23:53:26 and then he selects among them, choosing the one that is most pragmatically effective 23:53:32 err ok 23:53:46 it takes ehird about three and a half hours to construct each sentence 23:53:48 HOLY SHIT 23:53:52 PATRICK SWAYZE DIED 23:53:56 who? 23:54:02 .................. 23:54:10 He's a guy who's dead. 23:54:22 a celebrity? 23:54:23 if thats true 23:54:26 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((goodnight sweet prince)))))))))))))))) 23:54:28 its not much of a surprise 23:54:33 since he had serious cancer 23:54:41 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:55:01 ehird: link? 23:55:02 ehird, wikipedia says he is alive? 23:55:23 anmaster: if he JUST died 23:55:51 * GregorR can find no evidence to support this observation. 23:56:11 Made you look. 23:56:11 http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Goodnight_Sweet_Prince 23:56:14 GregorR: if he JUST died 23:56:23 ... 23:56:25 augur: ...then I wouldn't know about it. 23:56:26 augur: And what, ehird is his buddy? :P 23:56:31 ehird: but you might! 23:56:42 the rumor mill is mysterious 23:58:41 "Terms of use: no crawlers, no wget, no site copying, use of pictures, movies and text only with permission. No excessive rss feed checking." 23:58:45 ↑ rms cannot visit this site. 23:59:28 wut 23:59:49 augur: stallman browses the web by sending email to a daemon which then wgets the page in batch mode and emails it back to him. 2009-07-02: 00:00:02 (srsly) 00:00:07 ... 00:00:07 wut 00:00:14 he's on the wrong drugs, man 00:00:18 :) 00:00:19 Sounds like bullshit to me. 00:00:27 GregorR: http://lwn.net/Articles/262570/ 00:00:34 For values of bullshit equal to "rms said it". 00:00:40 It is very efficient use of his time. 00:01:08 yes well 00:01:11 im sure what he means is 00:01:14 he doesnt browse the web 00:01:19 which frees up a lot of his time 00:01:20 augur: Just read it, man. 00:01:22 i did 00:01:38 theres no way he browses the web like normal people do, given that. 00:01:49 no duh 00:02:46 no getting lost in wikipedia's web of links 00:02:54 this much is very obvious 00:03:47 ehird, what did you think about that music? 00:04:01 23:47 ehird: AnMaster: that song is ok. i mean, i like the basic style, but it's still of typical game music quality 00:04:02 23:47 ehird: s/song/track/ for accuracy 00:04:10 AnMaster: Might wanna expand that backlog. 00:04:17 You DID say something the line after... 00:04:33 "Even functions are functions! I invented this concept. Just like Steve Jobs will one day." — why the lucky stiff 00:04:36 http://hackety.org/potion/ 00:07:13 "Even functions are functions! I invented this concept. Just like Steve Jobs will one day." — why the lucky stiff <-- I'm not sure what he means with "even functions are functions"... But depending on what he means I think that has already been done... 00:07:23 It's called "a joke". 00:07:46 ehird, ah 00:08:07 author = 00:08:07 [...] 00:08:08 else: 00:08:10 '... probably Philip K. Dick'. 00:08:12 * ehird lols 00:11:16 ehird, I don't get that joke 00:11:24 I mean about steve jobs 00:11:32 yes I realised it was some joke 00:11:37 but I didn't understand it 00:11:38 AnMaster: That was an extra joke. 00:11:54 The first joke was "Xs are objects! Ys are functions! EVEN FUNCTIONS ARE FUNCTIONS!" 00:12:06 AnMaster: and Steve Jobs & Apple "invent" and "innovate" many things that they didn't 00:12:12 ah right 00:12:19 ehird, like the GUI 00:12:26 For instance, the Macintosh was the first GUI — invented by Steve Jobs — modulo Xerox Parc, and the team of Apple engineers who designed it. 00:12:28 Right. 00:12:39 (it=macintosh in the latter clause) 00:12:49 ehird, strange, but just 10 minutes ago I was reading about Xerox Alto 00:12:50 ... 00:12:56 scary! 00:13:17 Well, I mentioned it yesterday, but huh. 00:13:26 It was a nice system. I would like one. 00:15:20 ehird, I knew of the "Xerox being first" thing for ages, but I was reading about the actual computer model. Haven't found any good screenshots of it's GUI yet... 00:15:45 http://toastytech.com/guis/alto.html 00:16:03 Protip: When in want of GUI stuff, check guidebookgallery.org and toastytech. 00:17:58 Another example of Smalltalk running on a later model Alto or Star. Smalltalk provided its own GUI environment that included pop-up menus, windows, and images later referred to as icons. 00:17:59 This is what Steve Jobs saw when he visited PARC. Apple went back and implemented a more robust system and added pull down menus, desktop drag and drop, the menu bar, the Apple system menu, and modern copy and paste. 00:18:02 http://toastytech.com/guis/altost2.jpg 00:18:05 Lovely. 00:18:30 [[Xerox had no interest in producing a general purpose computer. They were, and still are, a company who's products revolve around the creation and use of paper documents. They saw the general purpose computer, electronic documents, and electronic document transfer, as a potential threat to their existing business. ]] 00:18:33 And this is why Xerox will die. 00:20:05 AnMaster: have you seen sketchpad? 00:20:15 ehird, is that the early vector thingy? 00:20:19 Yes. 00:20:24 ehird, think so tyen 00:20:25 then* 00:20:32 some video demoing it 00:20:47 Yeah; probably the one I got #1 on reddit for. 00:24:11 that toastytech consistently writes "origional" instead of "original"... Strange 00:24:52 Well, it is some 1996 site complete with "YARR IE 5 SUCKS" and animated gifs and the like: http://toastytech.com/ 00:24:59 GUI collection is very valuable though. 00:25:32 Well, it's not unupdated. 00:25:40 There's some youtube references and stuff. 00:26:01 (The above sentence being proof that 's isn't "is" in a whole lot of cases) 00:26:02 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:26:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:31:31 ehird, right 00:31:38 night 00:31:46 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 00:33:05 "Intel's 34nm NAND SSDs launch in two weeks" —The Inquirer, 26 June 00:33:08 please be true please be true 00:48:18 WTF! Google result pages have quite a big margin now. Too much change. Do not want. 00:49:55 Intel also to launch 34nm CPUs in $SOON. 00:50:19 pikhq: Q1 2010 00:50:25 Or Q4 2009 00:50:26 I forget 00:50:36 $SOON is easier. 00:50:50 pikhq: But these SSDs are going to be really gooooood prices. 00:51:01 Heh. 00:51:19 Estimated is 320GB for price of current 160GB (~$630), 160GB for price of current 80GB (~$320), 80GB for ~$150 00:51:26 Which rocks. 00:51:38 *rock, I guess. 00:51:42 Bloody grammar. 00:51:51 That's approaching the prices I can see someone actually having one in their computer. 00:52:15 Granted, $150 could get you a terabyte with ease, but you're not exactly buying SSD for the storage density, now are you? ;) 00:52:50 $150 is an awesome price for 2x snappiness increase in common operations. 00:56:03 It's a price point at which I can see someone not spending heaps of cash on their computer actually getting one, yes. 01:03:16 ?djin (a -> b -> c) -> (a,b) -> c 01:03:20 ?djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (a,b) -> c 01:03:25 @djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (a,b) -> c 01:03:31 * ehird kicks lambdab— 01:03:33 Where's it gone? 01:10:47 * ehird ports the #haskell discussion of UIs here. 01:10:54 I wish it was feasible to make a good UI system. 01:25:53 * ehird nabs lost of ideas from Potion. 01:28:01 Also. 01:28:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_(computer_science) ← Ropes are awesome. 01:28:25 They do everything strings do, with direct indexing just being a liiiittle bit slower in some cases. 01:28:33 And then beat the shit out of them with sub-linear common operations. 01:28:33 COMPUTER BONDAGE 01:28:48 Constant concatenation (including prepending). 01:28:51 Logarithmic substring. 01:28:54 Logarithmic indexing. 01:28:57 Linear iteration. 01:29:03 (indexing is amortized constant, though) 01:29:18 (you could add flattening ropes into one node as part of your GC-esque task) 01:29:32 I wonder if ropes would be good as vector replacements too 01:29:56 There's a trivial way to make a good UI system. First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. 01:30:14 Second, you know the rest. 01:30:37 pikhq: You still need an in-mind UI. 01:30:53 But yeah, that's good and all, but I'm waiting for the singularity for that. 01:30:54 :P 01:31:20 `addquote First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. 01:31:22 21| First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. 01:31:38 \m/ \m/ 01:31:38 `\o/ 01:31:39 | 01:31:39 (_|'|_) 01:31:50 Dammit myndzi! 01:32:24 Woooooo 01:32:29 `addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. 01:32:31 22|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. 01:32:33 \m/ 01:32:38 No? 01:32:51 ehird: Ah, Dinosaur Comics. 01:33:04 /o/ 01:33:04 | 01:33:04 /\ 01:33:13 \o\ 01:33:13 | 01:33:13 /'\ 01:33:19 o// 01:33:21 pikhq: You're an expert on Olde English. What would you ask someone for if you were asking for themself? 01:33:22 That is, 01:33:28 "foo: yourself" 01:33:31 Thou? 01:33:36 Thouselfst? 01:33:58 ehird: Þyself. 01:34:11 Hmm. 01:34:23 pikhq: But it's from the perspective of that agent. 01:34:27 Just like "foo: name?" 01:34:39 "foo: blah?" (is foo) 01:34:47 I am not sure what you're asking. 01:35:12 pikhq: You can ask an agent (foo) for things like: 01:35:14 "name?" 01:35:15 "age?" 01:35:20 "place of birth?" 01:35:22 "friends?" 01:35:24 "spouse?" 01:35:38 pikhq: What would it be for the thing that makes it give you the agent (foo) in Olde-style English? 01:35:40 i.e., "yourself" 01:35:55 In this context? "Yourself". 01:36:14 pikhq: But that's not olde! 01:36:24 (þou is the second person singular *familiar*, you covers all the rest.) 01:36:53 Fine, fine. "Yourſelf". 01:37:45 Bha :P 01:37:46 Bah :P 01:43:09 New! Drag and drop 01:43:09 Drag messages into labels and labels onto messages. 01:43:11 Your labels moved up here 01:43:13 To get you started, we put your most used labels here and hid the labels you use the least under "4 more". 01:43:16 01:43:18 OK 01:43:20 GOOGLE. 01:43:22 Don't do that shit to me. 01:43:24 You're CHANGING STUFF. 01:43:26 Stop it!!! 01:43:46 The four more aren't labels, just Starred, Chats, All Mail and Bin, so I guess I don't really use much stuff huh. 01:44:01 * pikhq hugs his IMAP 01:44:28 pikhq: I wanted to as well, but wake me up when you have conversation-style layout, flexible labels instead of stupid folders, truly awesome search, ... 01:44:44 I had a project but then I realised I was duplicating years of Google man effortt. 01:44:47 effort, even. 01:44:54 Also writing desktop apps sucks like shit. 01:45:01 I have conversation-style layout... 01:45:15 Not labels or awesome search, sadly. 01:45:34 O rly? 01:45:55 pikhq: That means "the emails of a thread in order in one frame, instead of hitting the 'next' key all the time and having to bat backwards and forth." 01:46:01 s/\."$/"./ 01:46:34 Strictly speaking, I hit the "Page Down" key to go to another email. ... And to go down a page in my email. 01:47:07 So what you're saying is threaded layout, not conversation layout. 01:47:09 That's not what I said. 01:47:14 Yeah. 01:47:17 Well. 01:47:30 GOOGLE HAS AJAX AND WEB2.0 AND THATS EVIL. 01:48:04 pikhq: I'm a less principled man than you in face of usability :P 01:48:47 I just have a radically different idea of usability than most. 01:48:54 ... Most of that idea involves telling programs to fuck off. 01:49:03 Programs suck, documents rule. 01:49:15 Unfortunately 90% of existing OSs disagree. 01:49:18 I want to punch said OSs. 01:49:26 (Smalltalk gets it, though.) 01:49:47 Smalltalk seems to get a lot right. 01:51:00 pikhq: BTW, know how you said using Plan 9 was tempting? If you use nothing but Plan 9 on your personal desktop(s) for a month, and actively use the computer during this time, I'll, uh, do nothing but stand by and idly be amazed at how either you're (a) incredibly flexible with tools or (b) amazingly capable of just playing Hunt the Wumpus and using IRC via a socket for a month. 01:51:03 :-P 01:51:23 by the way 01:51:25 !wumpus 01:51:28 :> 01:51:42 nescience: That did a lot. 01:51:45 supports multiple players who can therefore kill each other 01:51:52 !wumpus 01:51:56 Hum dum. 01:52:09 it's too much text to run on irc, it operates via dcc chat 01:52:19 you may be blocking them? 01:52:19 Welp, I can't use dcc. 01:52:25 Client don't know none of dat shit. 01:52:29 wat 01:52:33 your client sux :( 01:52:36 Thx 01:52:37 nescience: ehird uses a shit client, ignore him. 01:52:38 !wumpus 01:52:42 you could possibly telnet to it 01:52:45 it also runs as a dcc server 01:52:50 Ha 01:52:50 Sure 01:53:02 Client connects to Server and sends: 01:53:04 nescience: ip? 01:53:04 100 clientnickname 01:53:07 When Server receives this, it sends: 01:53:07 lemme see if i can remember the port 01:53:13 101 servernickname 01:53:15 2966 says the dcc request 01:53:16 Connection is established, users can now chat. 01:53:28 that's not the dccserver port 01:53:29 that's the port for that dcc session 01:53:36 o 01:55:52 i think the dccserver is 2421 01:55:57 ip 216.231.36.84 01:56:02 if it's not that, it's 2422 01:56:23 % telnet 216.231.36.84 2421 01:56:23 Trying 216.231.36.84... 01:56:24 actually 2422 might be a telnet interface 01:56:24 100 ehird 01:56:25 i forget 01:56:26 Guess it's not 2421. 01:56:33 crap 01:56:36 ports not forwarded, new router 01:56:38 Nor 2422. 01:56:39 Heh. 01:57:02 ports not forwarded, new router< 01:57:05 * nescience logs in 01:58:49 ok 01:58:51 try 2422 first 01:58:58 i think that's actually a telnet interface, forgot i had it 01:59:31 maybe not, it's a little weird 01:59:34 you need linemode i think 02:00:04 To enter the caves, speak thy name. 02:00:04 100 ehird 02:00:07 Egads, what a mouthful! (try a different nick) 02:00:09 "ehord" worked. 02:00:12 Now to spell it right. 02:00:22 yeah, i don't recall what that error is for 02:00:25 i think sanity checking 02:00:37 but i started in character mode telnet so it didn't work well, i got that error a bunch 02:00:46 I think the space kicked it off or sth. 02:01:26 pikhq: I task you with making unicode symbol entry easy in OSs. Plz make cent, forall and the like work, by searching fulltext without spaces (i.e. f,o,r,a,l,l) and with some reordering stuff. 02:01:28 Kthx. 02:01:30 (I'm trying to use jewnicode) 02:01:53 on an irc client, it colors lines because you see other people's status lines 02:01:59 allowing you to deduce their location and shoot them ;) 02:02:02 heh 02:02:06 fun 02:02:40 i have a map that has only 5 rooms and one that has like 50 02:02:51 and some various ones inbetween .. i have a lot of fun with that game on occasion :) 02:03:00 also there's a high score thing but i think it doesn't save when i exit mirc 02:03:23 I left :P 02:03:27 I have a short attention span 02:03:29 ew i got yellow 02:03:42 can't see that on white, oh well 02:03:44 time to go 02:05:13 bai 02:38:56 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 02:39:42 -!- rodgort has joined. 02:45:43 @hoogle random 02:45:51 grr 02:47:09 hmm 03:23:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:25:21 * ehird reads a Chick tract which starts by raping evolution and then turns to raping fundamental particle physic 03:25:21 s 03:26:21 it's so much easier to get your religion just right when you don't need to worry about the actual universe. *sigh* 03:26:48 What is a "Chick tract" and how is it distinct from a "tract" ... 03:27:02 GregorR: Jack Chick's special brand of fundamentalist bullshit. 03:27:08 http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp 03:27:15 Things that are not real: (a) evolution, (b) gluons 03:27:21 GregorR: Hilarious reading if you forget that he's serious. 03:27:22 .asp; SHOCKED 03:27:42 active shocking pages? 03:28:00 Among other things, he's claimed that Tolkien and Lewis were antiChristian satanists. 03:28:04 Actively shitting p-onscience. 03:28:07 pikhq: O_O 03:28:37 (Tolkien being a noted Catholic fantasy author, and Lewis being about as obnoxiously Christian as you can get while still seeming to have *some* grasp on reality) 03:28:56 pikhq: What grasp would this be? 03:29:00 HURR GIANT LION IT'S LIKE CHRISTIANITY 03:29:07 HURR LET'S WRITE TONS OF BOOKS ABOUT THINLY-VEILED CHRISTIANITY 03:29:13 I WAS AN ATHEIST ANGRY AT GOD FOR NOT EXISTING. THAT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? 03:29:27 That was only the Chronicles of Narnia. 03:29:38 Actually the last one was his personal account 03:29:39 well it is hard to be an atheist angry at god for _existing_, isn't it 03:29:43 Most of the rest were just straight-up Christianity. 03:30:17 Though he did a nice completely non-Christian retelling of a few Greek myths. 03:30:46 -!- r89w3n has joined. 03:30:51 Tolkien was massively racist, wasn't he? 03:30:53 Hi r89w3n. 03:31:06 rationalizationamationa[...]wetn? 03:31:08 Not especially. 03:31:15 I know i18n, but not _this_. 03:31:43 -!- r89w3n has quit (Client Quit). 03:31:52 pikhq: wikipedia agrees with you 03:32:07 He was horrified by the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, referring to the scientists of the Manhattan Project as "these lunatic physicists" and "Babel-builders".[88] 03:32:13 I cannot, however, forgive insulting Feynman. 03:32:55 Feynman is too badass to insult. 03:33:41 Also too likely to crack your safe for the hell of it. 03:34:07 http://www.soapier.com/reddit_alien_molds.htm 03:34:19 Reddit alien + Bacon smell = übersoap 03:34:55 although I'm not sure I'd like my hands to smell of bacon afterwards. 03:34:59 Scratch that, yes I would. 03:35:02 GregorR: Reading the Chick tract? 03:35:08 I want people to think I eat bacon constantly. 03:35:14 They'll be soooo jealous. 03:35:16 ehird: Smell of bacon? 03:35:20 Merely *smell* of bacon? 03:35:30 pikhq: I don't want to have any more desire or I'll be handless. 03:35:34 I want bacon in my hands after I wash my hands! 03:35:39 unhandy, even 03:35:46 That would be truly übersoap. 03:35:51 pikhq: Just figure out a way to use ACTUAL BACON as soap. 03:36:02 YES. 03:37:57 http://www.chick.com/tractimages16113/1059/1059_18.gif 03:38:02 This is just so absurd. 03:38:36 pikhq, ehird: I wonder what their definition of "most scientists" is :P 03:38:46 GregorR: I wish I knew. 03:38:51 "Creationist '''''scientists'''''" 03:39:18 Also, I saw "vestigial pelvis" and though "vestigial penis", and went "WTF?" 03:39:37 http://www.chick.com/tractimages16113/1059/1059_22.gif ← This is how Christians die 03:39:58 Vestigial ... pelvis? 03:39:59 They look bright, happy, there's a ray of light and they talk normally. They reach out without any effort at all, and then they just kind of flump down, dead. 03:40:00 * pikhq doṫs hɨs ṫs and crosses hɨs ɨs. 03:40:02 TRUFAX 03:40:06 Vestigial penis actually makes MORE sense :P 03:40:14 The pelvis is totally useless. 03:40:27 GregorR: They do in fact have a vestigial structure that one could call a pelvis. 03:40:32 The penis also; who needs reproduction? 03:40:34 "Hip" is a more accurate term, though. 03:40:34 Who is "they"? 03:40:53 ehird: Penises are mostly exclusive to mammals, so no, penis != strictly necessary. Just fun :P 03:41:13 Where "they" refers to whales. 03:41:19 Yes, but our reproductive system is sorta wired to a penis... 03:41:28 So's your MOM 03:41:33 OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, BEST SETUP EVER 03:41:51 XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 03:41:57 MANY MOUTHS TO D MORE 03:41:59 MOUTHES 03:42:01 MOUTHIES 03:55:50 (I'm trying to use jewnicode) 03:56:01 i'm sorry, only Slereah is allowed to do that. 04:12:36 -!- amca has joined. 04:41:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:07:33 -!- comex has joined. 05:08:44 -!- comex has quit (Client Quit). 05:08:58 -!- comex has joined. 05:14:49 -!- comex has quit ("leaving"). 05:16:33 -!- comex has joined. 05:26:02 -!- inurinternet has joined. 05:27:44 WTF, Google Chrome advertises? 05:28:00 WTFl, there's advertisements? 05:28:11 WTF, Google Chrome advertises on television? 05:29:34 WTF, people still have TVs? 05:37:06 WAFFLE 05:37:55 CREAMPUFF 05:44:37 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:38:57 -!- AnMaster has quit ("ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net"). 06:39:18 -!- AnMaster has joined. 06:41:25 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:39 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 08:15:15 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:15:35 you should fly in to a banana 08:15:39 like 08:15:42 flying 08:15:54 whoever you are 08:16:03 just go do it 08:16:40 well bye 08:16:44 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:19:30 Are we quite sure ehird's not partaking in any sort of substance abuse? 08:19:58 sure? nope, not at all 08:20:26 he seems less crazy than oklopol though 08:21:44 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:21:59 fizzie I can assure you that 08:22:08 I am not not not not not 08:22:15 not not not not 08:22:24 not not not not not not 08:22:26 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:23:10 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:23:17 not not 08:23:24 not not not not 08:23:26 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:23:29 hmm, the last thing oklopol said was "this off it ->", and then he quit, after speaking of a chain of some sort, and that was on June 22 08:23:50 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:23:55 omg, maybe oklopol *is* Reiser in disguise 08:23:55 . 08:23:58 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:24:15 best get going then 08:24:17 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 08:24:45 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:25:26 HEY EVRYONE WILL YOU IRC MAARY ME ABD MY NEXT QUESTION IS WH NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...in bed ...on a plane 08:25:30 not not not 08:25:43 not not not not not 08:25:46 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:35:20 -!- calamari has joined. 08:38:01 -!- rodgort has joined. 08:55:41 -!- immibis has joined. 08:55:58 what kind of language has dynamic typing but no implicit type conversions? 08:57:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:05:03 -!- Judofyr has joined. 09:05:50 -!- Judofyr has quit (Client Quit). 09:07:41 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:07:49 immibis 09:07:52 c 09:07:56 python 09:08:04 wellc is dynamic 09:08:12 python perl ruby a 09:08:19 smalltalk.... 09:08:21 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:10:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:10:17 -!- AnMaster has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:10:17 -!- comex has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:10:17 -!- pikhq has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:10:17 -!- Gracenotes has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:10:58 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:11:35 Are we quite sure ehird's not partaking in any sort of substance abuse? <-- my exact thought 09:12:03 * oerjan abuses some mackerel in tomato sauce 09:12:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:13:10 when i said "what kind of language has dynamic typing but no implicit type conversions?" i meant that "1 + 2.0" is an error 09:13:12 perl - erm, "2" + 2 yields 4 just fine. That seems somewhat implicit to me. 09:13:32 Python doesn't do it, though. 09:13:37 Neither does Ruby. 09:13:48 TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects. 09:13:51 I am not not not not not <-- it's ok, i counted 21 nots, which is odd 09:14:04 Are we quite sure ehird's not partaking in any sort of substance abuse? <-- my exact thought 09:14:07 err 09:14:11 unless that means he isn't sure himself, though 09:14:11 what happened 09:14:19 In "1 + 2.0", it's common to see 1 as being polysemously typed 09:14:22 Oh, and Javascript's expression "2" + 2 yields "22". 09:14:37 AnMaster: you should fly in to a banana [... etc.] 09:15:07 I remember seeing some language where 1 + 2.0 was an error 09:15:34 AnMaster: ocaml iirc, but that's not dynamic 09:15:35 I don't remember if it was dynamically typed or not 09:15:37 nor what language it was 09:15:58 different operations for integer and floating point 09:16:25 oerjan, ah that may have been it 09:16:42 because it's form of hindley-milner type inference doesn't manage it 09:16:45 *its 09:17:17 heh 09:17:28 i vaguely recall standard ML does something hacky to manage it 09:17:43 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 09:17:47 Scheme also doesn't do implicit type conversions except in the sense that all 'number?' types can do arithmetics. 09:18:45 * AnMaster curses rate limiting on freenode 09:19:01 still lagged 09:19:33 AnMaster: also haskell _technically_ doesn't convert, it's just that most relevant operations (including number literals) are overloaded to work with both integer and floating point 09:19:53 -!- comex has joined. 09:19:59 so 1 + 2.0 works, but not for the reason a dynamic language person would expect 09:20:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:21:41 * Ping reply from oerjan: 48.01 second(s) 09:21:42 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:22:05 so 1 + 2.0 works, but not for the reason a dynamic language person would expect <-- ? 09:22:05 funny bunnies! shitfucking holes! 09:22:09 I would expect it for the same reason as it would work in C 09:22:12 verily ubtos 09:22:21 AnMaster nope 09:22:29 implicit conversion 09:22:31 hiehird 09:22:40 2 is of type (Num a)=>a 09:22:42 AnMaster: which it doesn't do 09:22:53 err ok... 09:22:55 + is num a to a to a RNA 09:22:59 to 09:23:02 a 09:23:18 so 1 is infeerred as the floating 09:23:19 ehird == iEhird? 09:23:23 I don't believe it until ehird replied yes 09:23:29 oerjan, right 09:23:31 damn lag 09:23:33 ... 09:23:33 !haskell :t 1 -- testing 09:23:35 1 -- testing :: (Num t) => t 09:23:37 * AnMaster kills freenode's rate limiting 09:23:44 ooh it does accept : commands 09:23:47 yes. either drunk or on iphone. you decide abnafer 09:24:03 abnafer! 09:24:08 !haskell :t (+) 09:24:09 (+) :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a 09:24:12 nick to AbNafer. 09:24:27 + is num a to a to a RNA so 1 is infeerred as the floating <-- RNA inference? ~ 09:24:49 iEhird: iphone still doesn't explain the banana 09:24:52 basically a teipky fuggela with he Jews called all this 09:24:58 you c? 09:25:26 also oerjan NEITHER DOES GOD!!! 09:25:33 hey 09:25:41 hey 09:25:45 Toast! 09:25:47 ... 09:25:53 you missed the joke? 09:26:06 Yes. 09:26:10 iEhird: well maybe _he_ abused some substance. also the banana is heavily cultured. 09:26:10 + is num a to a to a RNA so 1 is infeerred as the floating <-- RNA inference? ~ 09:26:13 there 09:26:18 oh. that. 09:26:30 your mom. 09:26:36 see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_interference -_- 09:27:15 by iPhone battery so low/emotions sour/fuck haiku 09:28:03 iEhird, I usually hate haiku but this one was ok :) 09:28:12 in case you didn't discombobulate already, I kind of skipped sleeping 09:28:22 ehird, that explains it 09:28:24 8/5/3 is not haiku. maybe fibonaiku. 09:28:28 also I don't think it's a valid haiku. 09:28:38 fibonaiku :D 09:29:01 bbl 09:29:03 * oerjan slept particularly well 09:29:08 (an hour or so= 09:29:12 s/=/)/ 09:29:19 duck you ierhab 09:29:22 oerjan 09:29:26 fuck 09:29:32 oh just before I leave: I slept badly. They are repairing the railway close to here 09:29:40 for some reason they do it during night 09:29:45 i cannot help the image of iEhird sitting there with boxing gloves on 09:29:45 I HAVNT SET FOOT IN BED 09:29:47 It is rather interesting how the use of an iPhone for typing seems to affect the content as well as the expression. 09:29:49 just a few hundred meters from here 09:29:50 :/ 09:29:56 FOR THE HOURS 09:30:12 The Hours was a horrible movie. 09:30:18 away 09:30:22 just thought i'd throw that out there. 09:30:34 fizzie: you get a new value system for what's feasible to xpress 09:30:46 Yes. Like bananas. 09:30:50 augur would have a linguistic field day 09:30:59 yes 09:31:01 ooh whats this now 09:31:08 banana very easy to type 09:31:15 -!- iEhird has quit. 09:31:16 fizzie: how do you mean? 09:31:34 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:31:46 10% bTtey!! 09:31:49 O_O 09:31:55 someone link to todays log. 09:32:11 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.07.02 09:32:41 hey evryone you becef me sene we never responded to my irc marriage proposal 09:33:30 anyway bananas 09:33:51 such a good word to type. works well on crap touch screen 09:34:02 just two places to tap 09:34:16 apple should demonstrate the kb with it. 09:34:26 bananas. bananas. bananas. 09:34:39 wat 09:34:58 augur read the logs to comprhende. 09:35:03 ok :D 09:35:30 tried to say comprehende but it got lost in tyois so e looked typo .D 09:35:36 whats a good notation for variables, if bare character strings are just symbols? 09:35:36 :D 09:35:46 any unicode is acceptable. 09:35:55 $php4eva 09:36:05 ☞variable 09:36:16 •var 09:36:21 elegant! 09:36:28 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:36:38 Ooh, or ☠var. Since they are DANGEROUS. 09:36:43 -!- asiekierka has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must mustn't contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES. 09:36:49 hi 09:36:51 interroganf 09:36:51 i've been getting recommendations for either ‹var› or «var» 09:37:01 FOR HOMT FUCH SGIT 09:37:05 ☠var☢iable☣ 09:37:10 I once again want to make a C64 OS 09:37:14 augur ••• 09:37:20 •var 09:37:21 interroganf, a little known town in wales 09:37:24 what are you talking about 09:37:28 or •var• 09:37:36 hm. 09:37:53 augur I thought of a rationalIzation 09:38:15 ok 09:38:21 asiekierka: iEhird's crappy iphone keyboard 09:38:29 in Gaskell removin points is remving var occcurences. var is point. • is point 09:38:38 SO USE • QED 09:38:42 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:38:42 iphone keyboards suck 09:42:05 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:42:09 iEhird: i was considering using ẋ and the like 09:42:14 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:42:16 fdudkinv epic 09:42:24 right after I said we'd 09:42:27 WE'D 09:42:32 QED 09:42:42 disconnected battery empty 09:42:48 same second 09:42:56 too perfect 09:43:02 -!- iEhird has quit (Client Quit). 09:43:22 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:43:47 someone link me the logs 09:44:19 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.07.02 09:44:45 ehird 09:44:47 your internet sucls. 09:44:47 -!- iEhird has quit (Client Quit). 09:44:50 hahaha 09:44:51 the fuck man 09:46:48 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:47:08 Internet is fne read what the duck I said 09:47:09 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.07.02 09:47:13 fuck 09:47:18 thx oerjan 09:47:25 ørjan even 09:49:02 bgud t f educ dkfksdpegac ehxa DC ruvrlcsicircksckajer g 09:49:12 hi 09:49:15 yes, almost certainly. 09:49:32 aoej food 09:49:42 en nenfnr rbbf cu fjjagcghwh hwhb euchehhehuf ifjchhd 09:49:57 you can say that again. 09:50:31 no I can't. no copy and paste. 09:50:47 I haven't got 3.0 yet :-P 09:50:52 -!- asiekierka has set topic: we induct iPhone keyboards http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must mustn't contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES. 09:51:11 i hear it can only "copy all" 09:51:23 nope 09:51:28 it's fine grained 09:51:37 using dah loupe 09:51:42 notypo 09:52:08 You copy using a cantaloupe. 09:52:25 It's the fruit conspiracy again. 09:52:29 as long as it isn't a basselope 09:52:34 fuch you man 09:52:35 Except wasn't banana a type of fish? 09:52:40 brass added 09:52:52 banana banana banana banana vabababababababababanananananana 09:53:04 the fuchsia is bright 09:53:30 banana, a bad ass bass 09:53:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 09:53:46 [Old Man] The Black Omen sparkles in the sun! Tomorrow should be clear, too. [Choras Inn, 1000 A.D.] 09:53:50 reset my froodvoblt to reset intova vacant alley stare 09:54:17 COOOOOOMPAQQQQQQ!!!!!!! 09:54:25 froodvoblt sounds so douglas adams 09:54:40 saw it on old CRT monitor nearby. realize was easy to type 09:54:44 so....... 09:54:58 frood was drops initially 09:55:03 drops not drops 09:55:08 frood 09:55:53 FWFI was frood initially! 09:57:05 !swedish reset my froodvoblt to reset intova vacant alley stare 09:57:05 reset my fruudfublt tu reset intufa fecunt elley stere-a 09:57:22 just as comprehensible 09:57:31 fecunt 09:57:42 fecal + cunt 09:57:50 ouch 09:57:58 XD 09:58:16 BORK BORK BORK 09:58:29 a fecund word, i bet 09:59:08 this wasp/Hornet keeps trying to fuck my window. 09:59:29 wasps with fetishes can be dangerous 09:59:44 -!- immibis has quit ("If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments"). 09:59:51 or hornet 09:59:57 I'm not sure 10:00:05 I don't kbowvthe difference 10:00:50 I'm serious it keeps humping the window pane 10:00:51 "Hornets are the largest eusocial wasps" 10:00:59 oh. k 10:02:38 clicky 4 me --------> http://reddit.com 10:02:49 still here though 10:05:20 ping 10:05:38 hm interesting it seems norway doesn't really have hornets 10:06:29 only one species occasionally observed 10:06:41 or lions; tigers 10:07:10 someone type reddit URL for me thx 10:07:25 -!- Associ8or has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 10:07:36 there are 12 other wasp species here, though 10:07:50 http://reddit.com 10:08:00 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:19:21 -!- Associat0r has joined. 10:20:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 10:30:08 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:43:59 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:31:07 Is ehird now doing that unnatural sleeping rhythm thing? 11:31:21 -!- M0ny has quit. 11:31:21 He did ask us to tell him if he goes insane trying 12:08:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 12:14:45 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 12:29:00 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:30:12 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 12:31:35 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie[afk]. 12:31:55 -!- asie[afk] has changed nick to asiekierka. 12:56:52 Deewiant: nope 12:56:57 just doing the insomnia thing 12:57:15 uberman's otoh would probably be healthier than the sleep fuckfest I have 12:57:21 Deewiant: plz don't say unnatural btw 12:57:25 polyphasic sleep is natural 12:57:46 many-phased when an infant and biphasic after is the natural human sleep system 12:57:51 uberman's is just shifting the latter to the former 13:11:53 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 13:20:12 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie[afk]. 13:27:41 [[Also, Gary won a sweepstakes in Finland. He went over there to collect his prize, and that turned into a fourteen week ordeal. He says the Finnish are very nice, but "they need to make more sense."]] 13:27:47 fizzie and Deewiant: Take heed! 13:28:15 I make sense all the time. 13:28:32 No you doquar tub la be du falafel. 13:34:00 ehird: I knew you'd take issue with "unnatural", but I said it anyway. 13:34:31 Deewiant: YEAH WELL, YOU'RE FINLANDICERIC. YOU GO INTO UNNATURAL SAUNAS MADE OUT OF UNNATURAL SOYLENT GREAN PEOPLE. 13:34:35 UNCLAPPERBY 13:48:02 -!- asie[afk] has changed nick to asiekierka. 13:49:57 hmm 13:54:03 i wonder if `n to m` can work instead of `n to (m)` if we're relying on `x y z` where z isn't parenthesized to be `x y () z` 13:54:05 prolly not 13:54:55 i mean for arbitrary `to`s 13:55:10 thinking about things when i'm tired is a dumb move i think 14:13:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:14:29 ais523: hi 14:18:16 hi 14:28:22 hello ais523 14:28:27 hi 14:30:06 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:30:53 -!- nooga has joined. 14:31:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g9MpLAH5Ps << lol'd hard @ the ending 14:31:58 lmao 14:34:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:35:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:41:08 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 14:47:44 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:58:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:58:49 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 15:01:23 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:03:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:03:28 wb ais523 15:04:16 connection issues 15:05:17 -!- MizardX has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:05:17 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:05:17 -!- Slereah has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:05:58 -!- MizardX has joined. 15:05:58 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 15:05:58 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:08:18 -!- MigoMipo has quit. 15:08:48 "ROTFL. Here's some evidence for you: Lisp had 50 years to get anywhere and it failed abysmally and, with me on the scene, functional programming is finally getting somewhere." 15:08:53 — Jon Harrop to me. 15:09:12 I saw it on Twitter: Harrop's ego has been blasted into low orbit. 15:09:19 who is he? 15:09:30 more or less amazingly brilliant at everything than Wolfram? 15:10:17 ais523: A person who trolls usenet, reddit and more with his disgusting shitfest of FUD and idiotic rambling nonsense about Haskell, Lisp and other languages, instead plugging OCaml, F# and his retarded, useless consultancy that nobody gives a damn about. He has actually said that the "controversy" drives business to him. 15:10:33 So you can guess he's very successful: spending his days trolling usenet actually increases his revenue. 15:11:02 ugh, I think Graue's just changed something on esolang to try to stop the spambots 15:11:07 in the last couple of minutes 15:11:14 I think he's blocked the url /w/index.php 15:11:24 without realising that all actions except view go through there 15:11:48 hahaha 15:11:56 wait no, probably everywhere 15:11:58 "The precondition on the request for the URL /wiki/Main_Page evaluated to false." 15:12:12 ooh, I think it's blocking referrers /from itself/ 15:12:16 it works if I retype the URL by hand 15:12:34 lawl 15:12:55 * ehird digs out the Nomic World Game 1 logs to tell Harrop to go aeaeisseistjisetc under a rock. 15:13:09 Idonno, just seems to work to me. 15:13:11 Gotta get my extremely-obscure insult references right. 15:13:14 someone else try to follow an internal link in the wiki 15:13:33 I am. 15:13:36 Works fine. 15:13:40 GregorR: what about editing a page? 15:14:02 grr, the nomic ftp repository appears to be down or cronically slow 15:14:08 ais523: got the nomic world log? 15:14:13 ais523: Well, I'm not committing anything, but I can get to the editing page. 15:14:24 try pressing show preview 15:14:53 yay it done load 15:15:07 grr 15:15:09 wrong file 15:15:11 ah, idea: then try going to one of those spambot pages, trying to edit it, and pressing show preview 15:15:15 there 15:15:21 my guess is it's blocking text that matches the spambot pattern anywhere in the request 15:15:25 including the referer header 15:16:11 "In closing, I leave you with some sound advice from days past: Get a life and shut up. Stop cluttering the internet with your inane prattle. Go aestivate under a rock somewhere. In short, feep off and die." 15:16:13 So tempting to hit save. 15:16:15 SO TEMPTING TO HIT SAVE> 15:16:20 Except with a ., not a > 15:17:55 Kindly defenestrate yourself, idiot (Yittra, Sep 28 06:13) 15:17:59 Man, they had such good insults in 1992 15:22:10 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8xaas/how_did_i_not_find_this_language_years_ago/c0ar2kh 15:22:11 Bam! 15:24:35 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:29:58 ehird: "ROTFL. Here's some evidence for you: Lisp had 50 years to get anywhere and it failed abysmally and, with me on the scene, functional programming is finally getting somewhere." 15:29:59 16:08 ehird: — Jon Harrop to me. 15:30:03 what? 15:30:09 he's an idiot 15:31:43 15:31 Peaker: ehird was on my ignore list for ages.. I think I put him there after some antisemitic racial slurs.. 15:31:43 Wow, that's so ... egomaniacal ... 15:31:43 15:31 ehird: .........what? 15:31:46 ↑ lol wat? 15:32:03 "with me on the scene..." "i'm a sex machine" 15:32:08 hey, he didn't imply there was a causal connection 15:32:25 heh 15:33:04 15:32 ehird: Peaker: I have no idea what the flippin' hell you're talking about 15:33:04 15:32 Peaker: testers: almost as bad an epidemic as jews. :-| 15:33:06 15:32 ehird: fair enough. useless without context and almost certainly a (bad, admittedly) joke, but if you want to ignore me that's your choice 15:33:21 o_o 15:33:40 ANTI SEMITIC RCIAL SLURS!!!! 15:35:50 Somehow I manage to get by without using racist remarks as jokes. 15:36:12 GregorR: That's just because you're prejudiced against mothers. 15:36:38 Funny, that's just what your mom said last night. 15:36:45 Clearly you were requesting that by name, making it no funny at all :P 15:36:48 Though you're right, I'm not going to make any anti-mother racist sexist retard-ist stupid-ist not-all-that-clever-ist religion-ist anything-ist jokes. 15:36:49 *not 15:36:54 Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? 15:37:02 A: To enrichen his life and discover new possibilities. 15:37:10 lol 15:37:15 I actually am laughing out loud. 15:37:25 Wow. That's... rare. 15:37:30 You might want to get that checked ou. 15:37:31 t. 15:40:09 (Also, "your mom" jokes aren't "anti-mother" jokes, as they refer to a specific mother; yours :P ) 15:40:42 Anti-specific-mother. 15:42:11 So about how I'm totally going to Italy tomorrow wooooooooooooooooh. 15:42:33 Italy is booooring. 15:42:37 Go to the YOUUUUUUUUUUU KAYYYYYYYYYY 15:42:50 Snot my choice. Also I've been to the UK. 15:43:02 GregorR, what about combing two of those? 15:43:08 "Thats what your mom said!! 15:43:11 " 15:43:18 That's... 15:43:20 Not funny. 15:43:29 Yes, GregorR, but have you CONSCIOUSLY AVOIDED ME while in the UK? It's a whole new experience. 15:43:33 ehird, not out of context 15:43:40 No, ever. 15:43:44 ehird: It was 2004 when I went there :P 15:43:52 GregorR: Right then! 15:43:56 ehird: I don't think I've ever conciously avoided you either 15:44:09 ais523: You're missing out. Or missing in. I don't know which. 15:44:18 OK, so I'll amend my previous statement: 15:44:19 although if Hexham's as boring as you claim it is, that might give me an incentive to avoid your hometown and so avoid you by implication 15:44:33 So about how I'm totally going to Italy tomorrow and don't have to pay for it wooooooooooooooooh. 15:44:42 Well, it has regular stores, and some houses, and an abbey. 15:44:48 There's not much to BE exciting. 15:45:05 GregorR: but hoooooooooooooooow 15:45:16 Gwahahahah 15:45:41 how does an abbey differ from a monastery btw? 15:45:43 OK, so actually I'm going to a conference, and in my experience that means very little vacationy time, BUT STILL :P 15:45:53 AnMaster: There's no monks in an abbey, for one. 15:46:05 ehird, hm? 15:46:16 What I said was... very simple. 15:46:18 This abbey, at least. 15:46:22 Also this abbey is... small. 15:46:26 Like, church-sized. 15:46:32 `define abbey 15:46:33 * a church associated with a monastery or convent \ * a convent ruled by an abbess \ [21]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn 15:46:34 so it's a type of church? 15:46:43 lawlawl 15:46:44 Well I don't even know I've just been in it once 15:46:51 It just looks like a church to me and it's called Hexham Abbey 15:46:53 * ais523 tries to figure out what lawlawl even means 15:47:00 Also it has a clock on the side. 15:47:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham_Abbey 15:47:31 ais523, word splitting must be "law lawl" I think 15:48:20 lolawlawlololawl 15:48:25 * GregorR watches ais523's brain explode. 15:48:32 lo law law lo lo lawl? 15:48:38 GregorR: how? this computer doesn't have a webcam 15:48:47 ais523: He's behind you. 15:48:51 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo. 15:48:55 No, don't look. Now he's being you again. 15:49:00 ehird: wrong continent 15:49:18 That's 15:49:18 ais523: I'm still behind you, you'll just have to look a few thousand miles to see me. 15:49:18 what 15:49:20 he 15:49:22 wants 15:49:24 you 15:49:26 to 15:49:28 think. 15:49:33 DUNDUNDUN 15:49:43 * ais523 tries to figure out which compass direction is in front of the 15:49:53 meh, I can't be bothered 15:49:54 the? 15:49:57 the what 15:50:07 AnMaster: He forgot to capitalize: Is in front of THE 15:50:26 He accidentally the noun. 15:50:27 THE what? 15:50:34 It's an acronym. 15:50:36 ah 15:50:49 Tormenting Hell, England 15:50:51 It's a city. 15:50:51 I was trying to use singular they, and left the last letter off by mistake 15:50:54 A poorly named one. 15:51:01 ais523: but that's incorrect too 15:51:15 GregorR: It stands for T.H.E. Human Exoskeleton, actually. 15:51:40 ehird: of course it's incorrect, I left the last letter off 15:51:55 "ais523 tries to figure out which compass direction is in front of they" 15:51:58 That's not correct. 15:52:12 ehird: "them" 15:52:18 Oh. 15:52:27 That's not singular they. 15:52:29 That's singular them. 15:58:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2dfKm8XzSQ 15:58:42 gahahaha 15:59:47 http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7200/642pxhexhamabbey.jpg gahahahaha 16:00:08 Things picture lacks: (a) correct spelling of name, (b) humour. 16:00:40 (a) too lazy to check the correct spelling, (b) i know 16:00:49 ooh, someone just sued the SCO leadership personally, for theft of trade secrets 16:00:59 Ooooh. 16:01:07 ofc, that doesn't mean they have a case, but it's certainly making things even weirder 16:02:22 err wait... someone sued SCO? Not the other way around? Hm. Also who? 16:02:45 AnMaster: nobody I've heard of 16:03:01 my guess is that someone was looking at SCO's tricks, and decided to practice them themself 16:03:13 heh.. that could be expensive 16:03:37 not if they win. 16:03:43 so? SCO ran out of money ages ago, they're still going 16:03:43 true... 16:03:57 ais523, how? 16:04:06 AnMaster: Haha 16:04:11 AnMaster: nothing that makes a whole lot of sense 16:04:15 ah 16:04:30 whenever they're about to be shut down, some incredibly convoluted and surprising development happens 16:04:38 which causes everyone to have to reconsider for ages 16:04:56 and then they sue somebody 16:05:00 incidentally, someone thought that this might be part of a massive legal system for SCO to end up with the UNIX copyrights, that can only be done in bankruptcy court 16:05:09 haha 16:07:26 it sort-of makes sense in that bankruptcy court's the only place you can change a slightly invalid copyright title into a clean one 16:12:09 ais523: why stall then? 16:12:32 ehird: the only plausible explanation I've seen for SCO's behaviour is that someone's paying them to stall 16:12:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:12:46 they've certainly been quite good at it, over a year now 16:12:57 -!- augur has joined. 16:13:13 people seem to want punching over tcp/ip 16:13:17 but i have a more likely idea 16:13:24 what if we could transfer punches over legalese? 16:13:33 i wouldn't rule it out 16:13:39 legalese is pretty crazy 16:13:53 just write a 20-page appeals brief which also happens to be an ASCII art goatse 16:14:14 :D 16:18:36 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:25:04 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:28:25 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 16:30:20 Concept: memory-mapped CPU. 16:30:21 Discuss. 16:30:36 wat 16:31:52 What exactly would this entail? 16:32:17 1 command: 16:32:22 This is why I said "discuss" :P 16:32:23 MOV mem,mem 16:32:29 infinite memory 16:32:30 WIN 16:33:11 In which Jon Harrop has a comprehension of "irony" par with that of Alanis Morissette's: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8xaas/how_did_i_not_find_this_language_years_ago/c0ar3ej 16:34:04 Ah, a mov machine. 16:34:10 I <3 mov machines. 16:34:19 ehird: You sure talk about this Jon Harrop guy a lot. 16:34:34 GregorR-L: I flamed him yesterday, flames ensue. 16:34:38 I suspect this animosity is a cover :P 16:34:43 Mentioning him ~3 times in two days as part of one continuous thread sure is "a lot". 16:34:48 Because people in the middle of something never do that? 16:36:22 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:39:19 Re mov machine: Remember that with memory-mapped CPU, your CPU instructions could write new instructions :P 16:40:03 ye---wait, what 16:40:36 If the target of your instruction was in the area of memory mapped to the CPU, it would write something to ... ITSELF :P 16:40:37 You would need to have a builtin Verilog/VHDL compiler 16:40:47 which compiles the source you feed to it and feeds it to a FPGA 16:40:50 No, just built in SOLDERING IRON FUCK YEAH 16:40:55 ... no. 16:41:04 if you want to invent new commands 16:41:04 oh 16:41:06 The physical properties of the CPU are not memory mapped, just all the internal data. 16:41:07 you mean self-modding code 16:41:11 Yes. 16:41:12 :DD 16:41:15 but nah 16:41:17 even the 6502 can do that 16:41:36 I did it to modify addresses in instructions 16:41:40 asiekierka: Not after-fetch. You could be changing the instruction as it executes it. 16:41:44 LOL 16:42:00 that IS cool 16:42:05 deserves an esolang 16:43:03 Malbolge/ 16:43:49 ais523: ...no 16:43:50 To make it an esolang we'd have to find a way for it to be NECESSARY to do that, not just possible. 16:43:58 ais523: Not the same thing 16:44:01 well, OK 16:44:03 that's just mmapped program 16:44:05 So you could quite reasonably make the CPU into a CPU emulator. 16:44:05 not mmapped cpu 16:44:29 By writing a program that changes the instructions during fetching. 16:44:30 you're thinking of something more like changing the microcode being the only form of doing anything? 16:44:50 no 16:44:53 ask GregorR-L :P 16:47:26 ais523: he means memory mapped internal CPU registers 16:47:30 every scratch space the cpu uses 16:47:50 well, that's the case on the PIC more or less 16:47:56 * GregorR-L reappears. 16:47:58 ais523: ORLY? 16:48:01 although there's certain special cases for sanity 16:48:15 ais523: so you can make it dream of imaginary instructions? 16:48:20 calculate 2+2 wrong? 16:48:26 ehird: not to quite the extent you want, unfortunately 16:48:32 *GregorR-L wants. 16:50:46 There should be a repository of toy language problems to toy around with language des— hey, Rosetta Code. 16:55:43 someone implemented the y combinator in applescript 16:56:31 OW 16:56:32 DO NOT WANT 16:59:04 well, I implemented continuations in INTERCAL 16:59:08 so it's not that far-fetched 17:00:59 happy third day of australian mailman reminder week! 17:01:15 ... 17:01:32 what? 17:01:38 ais523: Erm. 17:01:40 I'm. 17:01:43 Not sure it works that way 17:01:52 I'm pretty sure there's just one australian mailman reminder day. 17:01:55 Then mailman reminder day. 17:02:45 #esoteric: where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird 17:03:19 -!- ais523 has set topic: #esoteric: where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES. 17:03:55 -!- ehird has set topic: #esoteric: where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "illegal discombobulation ribcage" AT ALL TIMES. 17:04:54 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "illegal discombobulation ribcage" AT ALL TIMES. 17:05:07 Erm, stupid /topic in Xchat :P 17:05:21 all you did was removed the channel name from the start 17:05:24 -!- ehird has set topic: tharr past the river droves, where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "illegal discombobulation ribcage" AT ALL TIMES. 17:05:34 ais523: I didn't intend to, Xchat did it :P 17:05:43 GregorR-L: why? 17:05:49 and what were you trying to change? 17:06:11 ais523: Nothing. I just wanted my name on it :P 17:06:32 Topic bling 17:06:50 Egg zactly! 17:06:59 -!- ehird has changed nick to GregorR_. 17:07:04 D-8 17:07:10 Sec 17:07:13 s 17:07:31 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to Gr. 17:07:35 Dammit 17:07:37 /nick GrеgorR :-P 17:07:45 Stupid anti-Crylliciicjicsjsicm. 17:07:57 -!- Gr has changed nick to GregorR-l_. 17:07:59 -!- GregorR-l_ has changed nick to GregorR-I. 17:08:03 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to write. 17:08:16 ^^ 17:08:21 -!- GregorR-I has changed nick to GregorR-I_. 17:08:37 HEY GUYS 17:08:39 I'M GREGORR ON A LAPTOP 17:08:53 zohmaigawd tahtso confinsink 17:09:03 write: /nick ehlrd 17:09:17 what if I don't want to write that? 17:09:23 :p 17:09:24 :P 17:09:29 -!- write has changed nick to read. 17:10:06 -!- read has changed nick to ehlrd. 17:11:29 ehlrd: SO'S YOUR FACE. 17:12:13 hurf hurf hurf 17:12:28 ehlrd: Innuendo. 17:13:13 -!- GregorR-I_ has changed nick to memorymappedbuff. 17:13:20 er. 17:13:23 memory mapped buffer. 17:13:26 -!- ehlrd has changed nick to ais524. 17:13:30 -!- memorymappedbuff has changed nick to read. 17:13:34 * ais524 - 1 17:13:43 * read reads ais524... 17:13:53 I see many your faces in the future. 17:13:59 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to write. 17:14:10 * write writes "ais523" to ais524... 17:14:32 -!- read has changed nick to ehlrd. 17:14:47 durf durf durf 17:14:58 -!- ais524 has changed nick to GregorR-I_. 17:15:02 laaaaaaaaaaawl 17:15:15 lawl @ ur MOM 17:15:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:15:26 Uh... hurrrrrrrr? 17:16:01 hurr hurr 17:16:13 ‽ 17:16:32 Well that was stupid :P 17:16:34 -!- ehlrd has changed nick to GregorR-L. 17:16:51 tru dat 17:16:54 -!- GregorR-I_ has changed nick to ehird. 17:17:16 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:19:25 Deewiant: YEAH WELL, YOU'RE FINLANDICERIC. YOU GO INTO UNNATURAL SAUNAS MADE OUT OF UNNATURAL SOYLENT GREAN PEOPLE. <-- people are soylent green, now? 17:20:15 No, it's imitation soylent green. 17:20:22 Soylent grean. 17:20:25 ah. 17:21:09 -!- write has changed nick to asiekreika. 17:21:12 -!- asiekreika has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:22:47 in the last couple of minutes 17:22:59 actually i think i noticed that a couple of days ago 17:23:18 or maybe yesterday; anyway there was a spam i couldn't blank 17:23:57 i guessed it was something stupidly triggering the spam filter when reverting the spam, or so 17:24:13 and since it was a new article i couldn't just edit an older version 17:24:24 oerjan: it affects delete and block too 17:24:29 i haven't checked if it was a problem anywhere else 17:24:31 oh 17:24:41 that's why I haven't dealt with the latest piece of spam 17:24:49 I've tried to, but found it's physically impossible 17:24:55 hm 17:25:13 Eh? 17:25:19 Oh, on the wiki X-P 17:25:48 wait, it said you did delete a spam 17:26:38 lessee it _doesn't_ affect editing another article (CAT) 17:27:16 it only prevents editing that particular spam i guess 17:27:34 (assuming it's the same "Precondition failed" i see) 17:28:40 grr, the nomic ftp repository appears to be down or cronically slow <-- isn't it always slow? 17:29:13 yes :P 17:29:16 ....... 17:29:22 ehird: our cover's blown ALREADY. 17:29:29 YOU SUCK 17:29:34 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:29:38 MWAHAHA 17:29:39 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to ehird. 17:29:43 That felt good mind you. 17:29:48 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 17:29:54 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY 17:29:55 oh wait a minute 17:30:11 i read that as "frc ftp repository" 17:30:16 >_< 17:30:27 GregorR-L: We blew our cover over a misunderstanding to boot! 17:30:29 I'm awesome 17:30:34 We?! 17:30:35 No we! 17:30:36 YOU 17:30:59 (since that is the only nomic ftp repository i'm acquainted with) 17:31:06 Has anyone actually worked out what's happened yet? 17:31:15 also, i had already noticed you were up to something, thus my aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:31:17 Maybe we could discreetly switch back and everyone would think this was just a joke. 17:31:24 Hahahah 17:31:25 Perfect 17:31:30 Okie. 17:31:32 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehlrd. 17:31:35 Step aside. 17:31:36 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to GregorR-I_. 17:31:42 -!- ehlrd has changed nick to GregorR-L. 17:31:52 -!- GregorR-I_ has changed nick to ehird. 17:32:00 Discreet. 17:32:01 NOW. 17:32:21 huh you're right, going to the main page fails 17:32:35 ah 17:32:37 -!- comex has changed nick to GregorL-R. 17:32:45 ais523: it only fails when doing it from that spam 17:33:02 it's something with that page that blocks doing anything from it 17:33:08 -!- GregorL-R has changed nick to comex. 17:33:50 hm that _might_ mean... 17:34:53 damn 17:35:10 i managed to edit it by entering the URL, but saving the edit failed 17:35:12 Some Engrish from my new mouse's instruction manual: 17:35:19 oerjan: same here 17:35:27 "When the receiver successful change the Ids, the indicator will flash several fast." 17:35:49 How long is a fast? 17:35:52 Not long I bet 17:35:59 yeah 17:36:06 not much funny engrish though 17:36:12 Oh wait 17:36:14 (authentical now) 17:36:29 "1,place the mouse one the stand and make sure the charging indicator is lightON," 17:36:33 and pasting the submit URL doesn't work, naturally :( 17:36:37 someone writing the instructions was DRUNK 17:37:12 ais523: do you know how to fake a submit without a referrer? that might work... 17:37:21 oerjan: I was wondering about that 17:37:21 asiekierka: translate.google.com doesn't drink. 17:37:24 you could try Curl 17:37:30 i'm sure it's not google translate 17:37:38 this one must me typical chinese engrish 17:37:40 :D 17:37:41 it's a pity you can't just use the API, but that's a newer MediaWiki version than the one esolang has 17:37:48 emphasis on _you_, there >:/ 17:37:49 the double-spaces and no-spaces and stuff are authentical 17:38:39 "Authentical," on the other hand, is not authentical. 17:39:54 but it's really what it says 17:39:58 i can take a photo of it for you 17:41:15 ais523: what the heck CSS is no longer working for me on esolang 17:41:36 oerjan: my guess is that the stylesheet's blocked for the same reason as the edit-the-spam is blocked 17:41:46 oh now it worked 17:42:18 CSS is like spam. For your webpage. 17:42:43 hmph that didn't work either 17:42:53 i'm running make for like the 15th time today 17:42:56 stupid gcc elf toolchain 17:43:08 SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM. 17:43:21 MAPS MAPS MAPS. 17:43:58 !haskell cycle "SPAM " 17:46:35 pikhq: EgoBot doesn't print anything when programs go beyond the time limit without printing a newline 17:46:42 LAME. 17:46:53 hm... 17:47:04 pikhq: If it flushed, it would work. 17:47:21 !haskell main = do putStr "SPAM "; hFlush stdout; main 17:47:34 oh 17:47:43 !haskell import System.IO; main = do putStr "SPAM "; hFlush stdout; main 17:48:06 it's very slow at responding... 17:48:10 LIES AND GREGORIOUS DECEIT 17:48:25 * oerjan agrees 17:48:26 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:48:59 Oh, never mind. CANCEL PREVIOUS STATEMENT. 17:49:25 Apparently bash's 'read' always waits for a newline. 17:51:57 hm does the -n option mean it doesn't look for a newline at all? 17:53:36 Sure? 17:53:56 that was a question 17:54:14 Looks like it. 17:55:20 oh well 18:09:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:13:17 -!- olsner has joined. 18:21:14 A: To enrichen his life and discover new possibilities. 18:21:16 :D 18:22:01 * oerjan has now idea why he cannot stop laughing at that 18:22:05 *no 18:23:07 So about how I'm totally going to Italy tomorrow wooooooooooooooooh. 18:23:29 well nor can your mom. or something. 18:23:53 GregorR-L: if my stereotypes of italians are anything to go by, you might want to _seriously_ tone down your mom jokes when there 18:24:09 oerjan: Yeah, well, so might YOUR MOM. 18:24:22 no she cannot, she's dead 18:24:55 hard to tone down your jokes more at that point 18:25:01 oerjan: Well so's your face. 18:25:37 That being said, in real life I'm nothing like I am online. 18:26:04 you mean you're really an annoying brat? 18:26:19 No, I'm not ehird. 18:26:38 You mean you don't play piano and don't know how to program? 18:26:44 pikhq: Exactly. 18:26:50 and he doesn't really wear hats, either 18:27:02 And he's a she. 18:27:03 My top skill is sleeping. But I RULE at that. 18:27:05 that's just photoshopped 18:29:08 ehird: I don't think I've ever conciously avoided you either <-- i think you need to go to hexham to do that properly 18:33:27 Actually, I'm everywhere. True fact. 18:36:16 portable... bunnies 18:36:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:37:06 As opposed to wired ones? 18:37:57 oerjan: I was wondering if conciously avoiding Hexham was sufficient 18:38:55 No. You have to go through various complicated antireligious antirituals of avoidance to properly experience avoiding me. 18:39:27 -!- augur has joined. 18:41:25 ais523: ideally you should visit his mom some time he is out of town 18:41:52 that should recharge our channel's joke batteries for years to come 19:01:56 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:02:33 If you guessed that "ehird" was actually GregorR, and I am actually ehird... 19:02:35 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to ehird. 19:02:37 Then... 19:02:39 YOU WIN! 19:02:45 Now how many people guessed that? 19:04:18 I see 19:04:32 damn 19:04:56 i didn't notice you renicking after i blew your cover the first time 19:05:09 :-) 19:08:54 ok discussing EgoBot's internals like that was quite clever. i think you must have discussed tactics by privmsg 19:09:08 <_< >_> 19:09:33 even if the first comment was factually incorrect 19:09:42 oerjan: Actually, he thought it was correct :P 19:09:51 Anyway, we're now both experts at confusing nick-change cycles. 19:15:57 that should be useful for your future (?) international crime syndicate 19:22:03 :D 19:32:20 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 19:43:34 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 20:29:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:35:53 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:50:34 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.ms-windows.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/2e504f3435ab24d4/7baf6b6cad9cbab5?rnum=531&q=intel+consortium&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.os.ms-windows.misc%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F2e504f3435ab24d4%2F96cbe4eb2c34c5c9%3Flnk%3Dgst%26q%3Dintel%2Bx86%2Bconsortium%26rnum%3D1%26#doc_761ebda0a17cb4d8 20:50:37 Always a classic. 20:50:42 Scott Nudds is a fucking moron. 20:50:51 Wonder what he does these days 20:52:06 As I said earlier, once you get past 50-100 megabytes of RAM, virtual 20:52:07 memory makes more sense. I expect 200 megabytes will be the limit for 20:52:08 most users. People who like to fake photographs will probably want 20:52:10 several times this amount. The rest will be virtual. 20:52:12 Fake photographs. 20:53:59 just wait until we start faking holograms 20:54:45 What's this about virtual memory making more sense once you get past 50-100 megabytes of RAM? 20:55:08 pikhq: Scott Nudds; it's old. 20:55:09 Classic piece. 20:55:17 Funny, virtual memory makes sense by the time you get past the *1 process* mark. :P 20:55:17 Biggest Idiot of 1997. 20:55:25 pikhq: He doesn't mean it that way 20:55:28 pikhq: He means memory that isn't in RAM 20:55:35 disk-based 20:55:44 Oh, he means memory that's swapped out. 20:55:53 Or in Windows terms, paged out. 20:56:02 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/8xno7/you_think_that_computers_will_ever_have_gigabytes/c0arbsv ← I expect 400 gigabytes will be the limit for most users. People who like to fake access to supercomputers will probably want 100 more than this amount. 20:56:38 still, 10 years ago I couldn't even imagine what you'd do with a gigabyte of hard disk space 20:56:39 well 'pparently nudds is a troll 20:56:42 but it's funny anyway 20:56:45 Gigabytes of RAM? Actually quite likely. ;) 20:56:53 ais523: 10 years ago? 20:56:57 ... '99. 20:56:58 ais523: huh? 1999? in like 2002 I had 10gb of hd space 20:57:03 on a shitty shitty machine 20:57:14 unless you were like a decade behind I can't see a gigabyte being impressive 20:57:18 I've got a 10G drive from the mid-90s. 20:57:19 sending memory off to alpha centauri for storage makes more sense by the time you get past the 50 exabyte mark 20:57:22 `calc 20lb in stone 20:57:23 20 pounds = 1.42857143 stone 20:57:25 Still works, in fact. 20:57:27 I've been about a decade behind pretty much forever 20:57:36 `calc 1 stone in lbs 20:57:37 1 stone = 14 pounds 20:57:41 my assumption was that if something ran on an old computer, it would run on anything 20:57:43 14??? Weird. 20:57:44 ais523: ... You had a C64 in 95? 20:57:45 so I used it for programming on 20:57:55 pikhq: no, a BBC Micro 20:58:08 and actually, that would have been in about 1997 20:58:19 Hey, I've got a *20G* drive from 2000. 20:58:24 Still works and everything. 20:58:30 old disks have a certain charm 20:58:39 big, loud, heavy things with just one platter 20:58:45 crunchin' away your ten gigabytes 20:58:57 my first computer didn't even have a hard disk 20:59:03 UPHILL IN THE SNOW 20:59:04 BOTH WAYS 20:59:05 although it used a floppy drive, not a tape drive 20:59:28 my first computer ran windows 3.11. it was 1998. 20:59:29 wow, I was using 5 1/4" floppy disks back then 20:59:34 Just a bit behind hur hur 20:59:46 a bit later, we moved onto a computer which was massively old 20:59:50 for the time 20:59:54 it ran Windows 3.1 original 20:59:54 My first computer ran 95. This was back in 98. 21:00:01 and only had a few MB of hard disk space left 21:00:09 or possibly a few hundreds of KB, I can't quite remember 21:00:11 i loved having the extra 1 21:00:15 so we stored everything on floppy disks 21:00:15 mine was SPECIAL! 21:00:21 pikhq: meh, 95 was a decent os 21:00:21 Built from scratch because I was interested in computers. 21:00:24 3.11 was useless 21:00:38 computers cost a fuckload in '98 at least for what my parents could afford 21:00:39 (and so grandmother taught me how to put one together) 21:00:39 I actually rather liked 3.1 21:00:42 so it was quite the chugger 21:00:46 ais523: needs moar taskbar 21:00:55 OK, so it had trouble multitasking, but its singletasking worked pretty well 21:01:03 better than most of the subsequent versions, anyway 21:01:05 so did DOS' 21:01:08 control-alt-delete actually did something 21:01:13 and was very reliable 21:01:26 My second box was some freeby that came with 95 installed on it. Became my first Linux box. 21:01:39 I've still got the CD burner from it. 21:01:39 I still have a Windows 95 computer 21:01:43 although I haven't turned it on for ages 21:01:45 (a whole 12x!) 21:02:07 * pikhq is too cheap to get a better burner 21:05:10 NOW 21:05:12 I WILL DISPROVE 21:05:14 THE EXISTANCE 21:05:15 OF MARMOTS 21:07:19 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:08:32 -!- asiekierka has quit. 21:08:54 !haskell putStr.take 500.cycle$"marmots " 21:08:56 marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots marmots 21:09:08 oerjan: go get λbot back 21:09:09 MUSHROOMS MUSHROOMS 21:09:16 why did lambdabot disappear? 21:09:21 it crashed iirc 21:09:22 oerjan 21:09:24 i didn't get it here in the first place 21:09:28 i did 21:09:31 :p 21:09:33 oerjan: No, you just killed it. 21:09:39 Stabbitystabbitystabstab. 21:09:48 no i didn't, i don't think i was even logged on 21:09:55 GregorR: OK, jig's up... back to our normal nicks, kay? 21:09:59 -!- ehird has changed nick to GregorR-L. 21:10:05 Pfffffffffffffffffffft 21:10:06 It's old now :P 21:10:16 Also, no, I'm in too many channels to go nick-switchin' just for this one :P 21:10:20 Dammit. 21:10:22 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to ehird. 21:10:31 In spite of how amusing and probably convincing that would have been. 21:10:40 ehird: nice try but this time i _was_ paying attention 21:10:47 it wouldn't have worked due to whois data 21:10:52 ais523: but it DID 21:10:55 ais523: Nobody whoised us before :P 21:10:57 ais523: we fooled everyone for like 20 minuets 21:10:59 minutes 21:11:12 even after slipping up 21:11:22 GregorR: oh i did whois you just not the second time, because i didn't notice you changing nicks again 21:11:34 gah, you make me want to work on ickirc again 21:11:39 CTCP SWAPNICK needs implementing 21:11:52 ais523: see '09:06:59 --- nick: ehird -> GregorR_' onwards in http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.07.02 21:12:01 it doesn't last too long in logtime 21:25:30 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:33:56 argh: http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1809&aid=-1 21:36:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:02:03 -!- augur_ has joined. 22:02:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:17:25 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:17:46 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:35:07 -!- Associat0r has joined. 22:41:10 I think the wrong-return-type bug is rather serious, possibly a release 22:41:10 blocker for 3.0.1. I'll see if I can produce a patch. 22:41:12 The incorrect rounding (returning 30.0 instead of 20.0) is less serious, 22:41:13 but still needs fixing. 22:41:16 —Python bug report 22:41:26 Because returning an int instead of a float is more important than the results being correct. 22:53:35 because the fact that floating point calculation may be incorrect is widely known, while unexpected return type change is not. 22:55:24 nice set of priorities. 22:55:32 :p 23:16:29 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 23:18:33 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:19:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:25:47 I guess I had better get a Less Wrong account. 23:26:10 And less than 60 seconds later, I'm done and logged in. 23:27:49 -!- inurinternet has joined. 23:29:24 * ehird turns off hiding of all comments and articles because he inevitably reads them anyway and tries to dislike hive minds. 23:42:32 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:47:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 2009-07-03: 00:26:21 night 00:27:11 bye 01:16:09 -!- comex has changed nick to aaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 01:16:13 -!- aaaaaaaaaaaaaa has changed nick to aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 01:16:34 -!- aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa has changed nick to comex. 01:18:51 -!- zid has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:18:55 -!- zid has joined. 01:49:38 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:54:18 -!- Zuu has joined. 02:01:38 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:06:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:39:39 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:28:54 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:29:19 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:08:41 -!- immibis has joined. 04:19:10 -!- amca has joined. 04:29:47 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:45:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:47:34 -!- augur has joined. 05:31:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:00:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:16:55 -!- Figs has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:30:44 -!- Judofyr has joined. 08:31:04 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:32:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:40:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:19:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:24:45 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:29:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:31:48 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 10:01:25 -!- immibis has quit ("There's nothing dirtier then a giant ball of oil"). 10:26:21 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 11:22:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:36:26 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 12:06:20 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 12:41:34 -!- fungot has quit ("just a moment; testing"). 12:42:29 -!- fungot has joined. 12:48:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:56:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 13:31:00 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 13:44:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 13:44:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:44:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 14:41:39 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 14:41:49 Hi. 14:43:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:43:10 And now to test iPhone OS 3.0s copy and paste by linking to this semi-lame comic about Brainfuck that I found on reddit: http://dustland.thedailynathan.com/11 14:43:20 Yay, it worked. 14:43:34 *3.0's 14:45:38 Welp, bye. 14:45:43 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 15:00:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 15:27:21 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:28:57 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:47:19 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:53:01 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 15:55:23 -!- jix has joined. 16:25:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:38 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:36:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:39:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:39:28 `define discombobulation 16:39:29 * confusion: a feeling of embarrassment that leaves you confused \ [12]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * discombobulate - bewilder: cause to be confused emotionally 16:40:03 i take it that is successful, then 16:46:17 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving"). 16:48:26 Today I wrote a bit of Perl so that fungot can use language models generated by our state-of-the-art VariKN n-gram toolkit; it does a fancy variable-length n-gram model growing thing with Kneser-Ney smoothing. 16:48:26 fizzie: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! 16:48:52 The results... maybe leave something to be desired. Although I've only tried it with a one very short piece of data. 17:00:26 "our state-of-the-art"? is this from your department's research? 17:02:09 ^style 17:02:09 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 17:02:13 ^style ct 17:02:14 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 17:02:25 Yes, a published bit of it though. http://varikn.forge.pascal-network.org/ 17:03:00 Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:05:06 !help quote 17:05:06 Sorry, I have no help for quote! 17:05:09 !quote 17:05:14 `quote 17:05:15 14| So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? 17:07:03 `quote Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:07:03 oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 17:07:04 No output. 17:07:12 dammit 17:07:18 `ls bin 17:07:19 addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 17:07:24 `addquote Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:07:25 oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 17:07:25 23| Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:08:31 "he's really a tricycle!" A bit random. 17:08:34 "he's really a tricycle!"? 17:08:51 * oerjan swats fizzie -----### 17:10:45 Currently there's a bit of a problem in that it always uses the longest-length n-gram the tree has, which makes it a bit too likely to quote verbatim. The model gives a back-off probability I could use for randomly selecting a bit shorter context, leading to more variable output, but since the babble-generation needs to be written in Befunge I haven't had time to do it well. 17:11:44 In fact that seems to be a direct quotation from the bit: "hey, check it out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!" 17:48:54 -!- Figs has joined. 17:58:31 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 18:04:00 -!- jix has joined. 18:04:56 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit). 18:05:52 -!- jix has joined. 18:42:37 -!- calamari has joined. 18:46:12 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 18:46:25 I am also reaa 18:46:44 I am also really a tricycle, rather. 18:46:46 is that related to virtuaa? 18:47:40 -!- Associat0r has joined. 18:48:31 I am fucking off now. WTF is this smiley graphic it keeps trying to complete: O.O ? I'll check the logs to see. Buh-bye for now. Especially you, Associat0r (yep, nick completion works). 18:48:39 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 18:50:35 what? 18:51:02 ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:51:16 but we already knew that. he is a regular after all. 18:53:54 -!- tombom has joined. 18:56:34 `addquote ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:56:35 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:56:50 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:56:55 `quote 18:56:56 10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. 18:57:11 `addquote `quote 18:57:12 25|`quote 18:57:26 `delquote 25 18:57:26 No output. 18:57:29 `remquote 25 18:57:30 No output. 18:57:38 there are no such things 18:57:40 HA HA 18:57:42 Meh 18:57:43 ._. 18:57:51 `quote 24 18:57:52 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:57:55 `quote 25 18:57:56 25|`quote 18:57:59 `addquote Meh ._. 18:58:01 26| Meh ._. 18:58:17 `addquote oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 18:58:17 asiekierka: but, we are far outnumbered! and to think that i'm his father!! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 18:58:18 27| oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 18:58:40 ^style c64 18:58:41 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 18:58:49 fungot: $D001 18:58:50 asiekierka: windows 95 ms-dos edit is the ordinary text that is needed when two sprites hit each other, sprite graphics 18:59:01 fungot: Wait, windows 95 and c64? 18:59:02 asiekierka: up before they can be read again. that means that program running is also abailable by setting this bit to 0 18:59:09 ABAILABLE! 18:59:16 that's the new official misspell for available 18:59:24 ^style youtube 18:59:25 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 18:59:29 fungot: planes 18:59:30 asiekierka: ok man, i've told you the attention i think 18:59:30 it means available in spanish 18:59:37 fungot: not planes 18:59:40 :( 18:59:44 oh wait 18:59:50 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to tester001asie. 18:59:54 fungot: do something 18:59:54 tester001asie: type in computer controlled 18:59:55 -!- tester001asie has changed nick to asiekierka. 19:00:04 fungot: Why are you such an idiot with YOUTUBE COMMENTS? 19:00:05 asiekierka: this plane was a test flight operated by remote control", it's a sobe commercial, but sing opera?! i want to give 4000 to each chinese citizen to pay for it 19:00:32 Sure, Figs 19:00:34 Urr, fungot* 19:00:35 FireFly: omg look it up. very sad accident. but noone will care cos you so surpriced?? 19:00:59 fungot: You don't have EMOTION! You're just a GOT! 19:00:59 asiekierka: not you and decide for yourself. we're all intittled to an old rob schneider skit called " orgasm guy. you can search air france 19:01:16 Why did I accidentally f for fungot? I just realised I'd tab my own name before fungot 19:01:17 FireFly: featuring:hillary clinton. the accident and find out for you. at least 50 journalists on board, so f ' em for nothing 19:01:20 s/name/nick/ 19:01:47 I think i should update that fungot database 19:01:48 asiekierka: who said you had a trailer, the pilot went to jail for months, to illegal futures trades, six crew. 19:02:07 this IS going to take a while 19:02:24 -!- jix has joined. 19:02:52 i'm looking for the youtube comment list AND sed scripts 19:03:00 which made them formatted (nearly) 19:03:51 * oerjan swats FireFly for doing such a stupid thing. -----### 19:04:07 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:44:15 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has joined. 19:50:26 -!- olsner has joined. 19:56:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:01:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:04:40 -!- tombom__ has joined. 21:13:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:22:07 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:22:08 -!- tombom__ has changed nick to tombom. 21:40:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 21:48:13 -!- ehird has left (?). 21:51:29 -!- ehird has joined. 21:51:55 10:48:31 I am fucking off now. WTF is this smiley graphic it keeps trying to complete: O.O ? I'll check the logs to see. Buh-bye for now. Especially you, Associat0r (yep, nick completion works). 21:51:56 10:48:39 --- quit: ehirdiphone (Client Quit) 21:51:57 10:50:35 what? 21:52:11 I was testing out (a) my new iPhone IRC client, (b) the iPhone OS upgrade I did. 21:52:18 It now has copy and paste, so I tried that. 21:52:23 "I am fucking off now." = "Bye." 21:52:32 But then when I typed "o", it tried to complete it to a smiley graphic. 21:52:40 So I tried that and checked the logs and saw it was O.O. 21:52:51 Then I tested nick completion with a long nick that just entered. 21:52:52 The end. 21:53:36 `quote 21:53:36 8| GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 21:54:12 `quote 21:54:13 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 21:54:16 `quote 21:54:16 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 21:54:24 Insanity and murder. 21:54:30 !ghc 21:54:32 Two great tastes that taste great together. 21:54:36 Deewiant: !haskell 21:54:39 @ghc 21:54:45 Oh, no \bot 21:55:16 Deewiant: Yeah, it died. I'll ask gwern to return it. 21:55:41 Hence why I suggested somebody run their own instead of relying on the suicidal one 21:55:47 -!- FunctorSal has joined. 21:55:50 well ask them to put #esoteric in the proper initialization list... 21:56:02 oerjan: Meh :P 21:56:13 Deewiant: The suicidal one is the "official" one and anyway compiling lambdabot is a pain. 21:56:23 FunctorSal: I espy your #haskell origins. 21:56:43 I know it's "official" but that doesn't really matter 21:56:45 The latter is a point 21:56:55 ehird: that's not a given. it could be a real category theorist. 21:57:02 so is this about strange languages or crystals and stuff? ;) 21:57:10 oerjan: But I just said #esoteric in #haskell and e's in there. 21:57:13 FunctorSal: the former 21:57:20 FunctorSal: The former, although the latter if you believe some kooks that enter here occasionally. 21:57:41 (Cue Sussman: "We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells!") 21:57:51 If you've seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/, that's us. 21:58:12 oerjan: ehird is right; I also like CT, but wouldn't call myself a real category theorist yet ;) 21:58:27 :) 22:03:32 ^ul ((*)(*))(~:^*a~^Sa*~:^):^ 22:03:33 ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ ...too much output! 22:03:38 oops 22:03:46 ^ul ((*)(*))(~:^*a~^( )*Sa*~:^):^ 22:03:46 * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* ********************* ********************************** ******************************************************* ***************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************* ...too much output! 22:04:08 The fibonacci sequence? Spiffy. 22:04:20 More like the fibonawesome. 22:04:41 More like wtf 22:05:09 -!- phearle has joined. 22:05:23 FunctorSal: Welcome to Esoteric. 22:05:30 .. 22:05:33 It has a lowercase e. 22:05:36 * pikhq passes crystals over the Brainfuck compiler 22:05:47 phearle: sheesh, you're one of the #haskell people too? 22:05:48 ehird: Lies and deceit, good ſir. 22:05:53 Too many! Too many! 22:05:57 pikhq: ChanServ agrees with me. 22:06:32 ehird: I'm a #haskell parson now. 22:06:32 not particularly :) 22:06:34 ehird: i recall there is someone (CESSMASTER?) who usually joins #ESOTERIC 22:06:38 pikhq: Alan Parsons? 22:06:44 No. 22:06:45 phearle: oh? 22:06:57 phearle: so where you from in particular then. that brought you here. 22:07:06 oerjan: HARDCORE ESOTERICISM 22:07:30 I saw this room mentioned in the channel, if that is what you are referring to. 22:07:36 Well, right. 22:07:42 ehird: what an unfortunate fetish to have! 22:07:54 As long as you're here for the weird languages and not the "magick", this is the right place. 22:08:04 ehird is always right. it's right there in his nick, if you reverse it and correct it a tiny bit. 22:08:08 Well, assuming you like channels that are offtopic 98.7% of the time. 22:08:40 oerjan: drihe → ridhe → righe → right. 22:08:42 I like your logic. 22:09:10 my logic is always right too. 22:09:18 my assumptions, not so much. 22:09:56 oerjan: i have a wonderful set theory 22:10:02 ZF+AoC+Bible 22:10:09 ZF set theory, plus the axiom of choice, plus all of the bible. 22:10:43 i think you could tone it down to just predicate logic + bible 22:10:56 you only need one inconsistency after all 22:11:16 But everyone knows ZF+AoC are true. 22:11:23 Everyone knows the Bible is true, too; it says so. 22:12:00 gödel might have a bit of quibble with that. 22:12:08 well, if he weren't dead. 22:12:34 Gödel is being tortured in an eternal lake of fire for his sins. 22:12:37 P.S. Jesus loves you! 22:12:53 ehird: and he _still_ considers it an improvement. 22:12:59 possibly. 22:13:03 hmm? wasn't Gödel pretty religious? 22:13:07 FunctorSal: Shut up. 22:13:08 :p 22:13:10 * oerjan has no idea 22:13:20 he was paranoid, anyway 22:13:28 Only in his later life. 22:13:30 I loved the whole "my food might be poisoned so I won't eat anything" schtick. 22:13:33 Way to fail at probability! 22:13:34 well I don't know how religious he was in everyday life, but I think he made a god-proof 22:13:43 Even if you ARE being conspired against it's a net loss... 22:14:00 oh that one. 22:14:32 'Gödel was a convinced theist and a lifelong Christian. He rejected the notion that God was impersonal, as Einstein believed. He believed firmly in an afterlife, stating: .I am convinced of the afterlife, independent of theology. If the world is rationally constructed, there must be an afterlife."' 22:15:03 I love how they just assert how it's obviously rationally so. 22:15:16 I like the ontological argument, too; I wished myself a perfect fortune that way. 22:16:01 what would that be? 22:16:05 fun fact: Quantum immortality fucking sucks as the probability of you going into a terrible coma only to wake up one second every billion years increases rapidly vs your chance of dying. 22:16:15 FunctorSal: two of 'em 22:16:15 1. God is something of which nothing greater can be thought. 22:16:16 2. God may exist in the understanding. 22:16:18 3. It is greater to exist in reality and in the understanding than just in understanding. 22:16:20 4. Therefore, God exists in reality 22:16:22 and 22:16:24 1. God is the entity of which nothing greater can be thought. 22:16:26 2. It is greater to be necessary than not. 22:16:28 3. God must therefore be necessary. 22:16:30 4. Hence, God exists necessarily. 22:16:41 I was referring to 'perfect fortune' :) 22:16:44 Ah. 22:16:46 It went like this: 22:17:03 and how did you paste that so rapidly anyway? got it on a hotkey? :D 22:17:32 ehird: ... How very null. 22:17:41 1. The Perfect Fortune is an entity that is the $1,000,000,000 of which nothing great can be thought (in the subset of $1,000,000,000s). 2. The Perfect Fortune may exist in the understanding. 3. It is greater to exist in reality and in the understanding than just in understanding. 4. Therefore, The Perfect Fortune exists in reality 22:17:43 I'M RICH!!!!!! 22:17:46 -!- Hiato has joined. 22:17:55 hm forgot to specify it was mine 22:17:56 -!- Hiato has quit (Client Quit). 22:17:58 whatever, trivial change 22:18:10 FunctorSal: copy and paste from wikipedia skillz 22:18:32 i had the article Gödel's ontological proof open anyway 22:18:34 and it links to it 22:18:49 strategically, I wouldn't argue with pure existance proofs for god. Ask them why it should be a god that imposes rather than some other god 22:18:53 *existence 22:19:29 I don't argue with theists about their religion because arguing against baked-in delusions justified by "faith" is incredibly difficult. :p 22:21:01 Funny, I could've sworn that most religions were, by their very nature, untestable. 22:21:15 pikhq: what was that a response to? 22:21:24 Plenty of delusions are inherently unprovable and untestable. 22:21:31 Poorly phrased response to that conversation. 22:21:39 In fact, believing something of the sort is true is a category of delusion. 22:22:06 I don't think throwing around insults like that convinces anyone 22:22:15 FunctorSal: I am not intending to insult everyone. 22:22:16 Er. 22:22:17 Anyone. 22:22:49 I call certain beliefs delusions because they meet all criteria and I don't make an exception to how I say things for religion just because the standard cultures do. 22:22:58 And calling a belief delusional is not a knock on the believer in any way. 22:23:44 well, it's not maladaptive in the way paranoid psychosis is 22:24:10 Paranoid psychosis is not the only other delusion... 22:24:19 maybe it's even an advantage because you are more motivated 22:24:25 (as a religious person) 22:25:00 FunctorSal: say someone had a deep conviction that every quark is actually made up of undetectable gnomes, and that by making these gnomes happy, we can improve our life. they also refuse to debate this matter with you, saying it angers the gnomes. 22:25:05 surely you would recognize this as delusional? 22:25:18 Religion is just the same, except it seems less wacky because we're used to it. 22:26:39 !bf ++++++++[->++++>++++++++>>>++++<<<<<]>>>+>+>[-<[->>+<<]<[-<.>>+<]<<.>>>>>[-<<+<+>>>]<] 22:26:39 @ @ @@ @@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 22:26:59 oerjan: Not bad. 22:27:08 I'd imagine you could get that a bit more efficient, though. 22:27:32 ehird: sure, but I mean not all religious people are in generally-delusional state of mind 22:27:42 fibonacci? 22:27:50 You can believe a delusion but still be otherwise sane 22:27:51 mhm 22:27:54 (understanding 'delusional' to be more a state of mind than something about specific beliefs) 22:28:30 Well, it's both. 22:30:45 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001283.html ← I love how Jeff Atwood is egotistical enough to think that his pet site absolutely needs 48GB of RAM to run. 22:33:01 !bf ++++++++[->++>>>++++++++>++++<<<<<]>>+>+<<[->[-<<+>>]>[->.<<+>]>>.<<<<<[->>+>+<<<]>] 22:33:01 @ @ @@ @@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 22:33:17 no u 22:34:00 hm reversing the cells didn't make much difference 22:38:37 actually... 22:43:00 hm, lovely comment, no? http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/8xz6s/cobol_to_java_automatic_migration_with_gpled_tools/ 22:43:30 *gives commenter une monad* 22:44:21 but anything not COBOL is good. language gave me a headache trying to read ;_; 23:00:41 -!- augur has quit ("Leaving..."). 23:04:21 -!- augur has joined. 23:05:32 hi augur. 23:05:39 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 23:05:55 hey ehird 23:08:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:26 o_o 23:12:54 ehird: 48G of RAM? 23:13:03 ehird: Is he storing the site in RAMdisk? 23:22:38 prolly 23:27:56 I wonder, is there a general word for the things a programming language can do? 23:28:07 Sort of a mix of instruction-function-what have yous 23:28:23 Although for some I guess it's hard to speak of any of this 23:28:30 GuestShadowSkunk: Operation? 23:28:35 Like the game of life or related things. 23:28:37 Only works for imperatives, I guess 23:28:37 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has changed nick to Slereah. 23:28:47 With functional languages you never do. 23:28:49 You just reduce. 23:29:04 Well, functional languages you can speak of functions 23:29:19 I just wondered if there's a general word for that 23:32:27 Functions 23:33:13 i think a good description is like 23:33:28 this is sort of tautological but 23:34:40 functional programming is about deriving related data, imperative is about changing data, and declarative is about discovering related data 23:35:06 so i guess you could say that the things that languages can do is change, derive, or discover 23:35:30 and i dont think theres a single word to describe this, because i think they're really fundamentally different things 23:35:31 functional is a subset of declarative 23:35:36 right 23:35:38 in a sense 23:35:41 no 23:35:42 strictly 23:35:52 your analogy doesn't account for that 23:35:58 its also a subset of procedural :P 23:36:58 my point is that in terms of how you think about coding 23:37:19 functional is more about deriving new data, rather than discovering related data 23:37:44 declarative is all about discovering what exists, not deriving what you know must exist 23:38:15 brbrbrbrb 23:43:42 Slereah: "Computing quantums". 23:46:04 augur: functional != subset of procedural 23:46:37 augur: you're thinking of logical languages when you say declarative 23:46:41 declarative is just what-not-how 23:50:39 pikhq : how do you do for languages that are just strings of symbols on a set of rules? 23:50:44 Number of rules? 23:51:46 Slereah: I guess. 23:52:07 What of Thu? 23:53:12 Can it be quantised? 23:53:23 No idea. 23:53:41 I guess you could say it only has one thing, without the io, but Iunno 23:54:19 pikhq: Ha, I thought you meant literal quantum particles 23:54:27 I thought it was intentionally over-generic 23:55:32 ehird, ofcourse functional is a subset of procedural 23:55:35 ehird: No, no. Quantising computing like that would be a bit different. And interesting. ;) 23:55:39 functional is procedures that dont mutate state 23:55:44 augur: You misunderstand what procedural style i 23:55:45 s 23:55:47 procedural languages needn't have first-class functions 23:55:51 oh well, STYLE 23:55:58 is different, yes true 23:56:05 er 23:56:08 i meant paradigm 23:56:08 C, for example, is quite a procedural language. 23:56:10 but even then, functional isnt really a subset of declarative 23:56:16 procedural is generally just used to mean imperative 23:56:18 because functional still defines how 23:56:19 augur: it is, though 23:56:28 not having first class function is bat shit insane 23:56:28 it strictly is a subset, most all classifications agree 23:56:33 +s 23:56:41 *troll* ;) 23:56:45 well then its an odd definition of declarative 23:56:47 eh, i agree 23:56:50 since functional definitions are not how at all 23:56:53 FunctorSal: There's a number of languages that are bat-shit insane. 23:56:56 augur: when you say 'declarative', you're meaning 'logical' 23:57:00 logical languages infer data from rules 23:57:01 I suppose a language like Lisp is, in theory, a subset of Prolog in terms of the sorts of things you can do with it 23:57:05 you need never backtrack, after all 23:57:10 i suppose, ehird. 23:57:10 FWIW, C++ is soon going to cease to be bat-shit insane by that notion. 23:57:11 but Lisp is powerful for other reasons 23:57:17 pikhq: no it's not 23:57:23 pikhq: it's going to not fulfill one criterium 23:57:31 that criterium never claimed exclusivity 23:57:34 what do you mean by Declarative\Logic 23:57:43 but atm, C++ is a pretty good definition of insane 23:57:46 ehird: Fair enough. 23:57:54 augur: declarative languages are not the same as logical ones 23:57:58 I mean, even Perl has its own sort of internal logic 23:57:58 logical is-subset-of declarative 23:58:00 right 23:58:02 functional is-subset-of declarative 23:58:04 imperative is not 23:58:05 i know 23:58:07 ehird 23:58:12 where does behavioural go? 23:58:12 What do you mean by Declarative\Logic 23:58:20 what? 23:58:23 "Declarative\Logic"? 23:58:27 ais523: Yeah; "shell scripts on crack" is at least a design decision. 23:58:36 yes. Declarative Set-Minus Logic 23:58:37 :P 23:58:42 declarative is pretty much "all languages where you don't describe what to do in order" 23:58:55 but by that definition, VHDL is declarative 23:59:01 augur: functional, some part of behavioural (not the reactionary code which may be imperative) 23:59:05 ah ok, so you mean languages without time ordering 23:59:05 actually, it might be, that's a good classification 23:59:06 array 23:59:16 i see. well in that case ok. 23:59:16 augur: well, that's a definition that almost fits 23:59:24 VHDL is time-ordered, but you have to do it manually 23:59:27 but it's not do a; do b; do c 23:59:38 ehird: Functional can be considered a declarative language because there is no requirement that the function definition have anything to do with how its results are computed. 23:59:40 it's whenever a changes, b changes 10 seconds later 23:59:49 ehird: Erm. Subset of declarative. 23:59:54 so ehird: for what X does Functional + Logic + X = Declarative? 2009-07-04: 00:00:10 hehe 00:00:20 augur: declarative behavioural languages, maybe array languages if you don't count them as functional 00:00:23 perhaps some other fringe stuff 00:00:28 oh, and things like VHDL 00:00:31 call that the crackhead category 00:00:39 behavioral = ?? 00:00:47 ehird: You failed to mention some DSLs. 00:00:52 Functional + Logic + Mushrooms = ? 00:00:55 SQL, for example. 00:00:56 pikhq: they fall into a subset 00:00:59 * ais523 finally finishes the Rubicon bubble-sort that coppro started 00:01:01 sql is array sorta 00:01:08 augur: behavioural is "when a, b" 00:01:14 ?? 00:01:16 if the b part is imperative — it often is — not declarative 00:01:19 event driven, you mean? 00:01:21 if it's not, declarative 00:01:26 augur: yes, pretty much 00:01:28 /reactive? 00:01:29 ok. 00:01:30 vhdl fits under that, too 00:01:32 FunctorSalvatore 00:01:51 Salad actually. 00:01:51 ehird: That's pretty interesting. 00:02:03 yes, I'm losing letters :-( 00:02:12 FunctorSal: use the /nick, luke 00:02:26 what if it backfires? 00:02:39 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good nick, er night"). 00:02:47 you'll die 00:03:31 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 00:20:20 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 00:21:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:25:45 ais523: microsoft somehow just made one of their products majorly worse 00:25:50 instead of just chipping at their good parts 00:25:53 which one? 00:26:20 ais523: outlook 2010 will use microsoft word for composing and rendering html emails 00:26:25 thus giving this "upgrade": http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3322/3637814200_a2aa59bc89_o.jpg 00:26:39 oh, and inflicting a new generation of charts, graphs and other horribilities right in the toolbar 00:26:46 so that people use them more and everyone else suffers more. 00:26:56 wait, what if Word isn't installed? 00:27:10 ais523: outlook is part of office 00:28:21 even if they introduced word as the editor 00:28:25 they could at least use IE's rendering engine 00:28:43 outlook is hated by everyone on the Internet who doesn't use it, anyway 00:28:50 have you seen how bad Outlook-composed emails are? 00:28:58 yep 00:28:59 but then, Word's HTML is worse 00:29:21 fun fact: when OpenOffice.org and Word convert the same Word document to HTML, OOo's output renders better in IE 00:30:19 * ehird sees the orangered envelope on less wrong, jumps for a second 00:30:27 That's new. Then again, it's only been a day. 00:31:28 *Word* for composing emails? 00:31:44 AND RENDERING? 00:32:02 Yes. 00:32:33 That is retarded. 00:32:37 ooh, put a macro virus in one 00:32:42 I mean, truly, positively, absolutely retarded. 00:34:26 -!- phearle has quit. 00:41:59 still, it could be worse; they could be using Outlook as Word's rendering engine 00:56:47 ais523: grok law would have a field day with this one: 00:56:52 [[Having said that, I find the Plug-In problem particularly interesting. Gnu.org says: “If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main program and the plug-ins. This means the plug-ins must be released under the GPL or a GPL-compatible free software license, and that the terms of the GPL must be 00:56:55 followed when those plug-ins are distributed.” 00:56:57 However, what happens if, say, a commercial application has a plug-in architecture like the one described above, and that commercial app is cloned by a GPL-covered project. The GPL project would try to replicate the commercial app’s Plug-In API in order to allow the plug-ins for the commercial app to run inside the GPL’d app. Would that mean that the mere existence of this clone app would make closed-source plug-ins for the commercial app illegal?]] 00:57:02 i hope it's true, that'd be brilliant 01:00:09 it isn't, that's the libreadline argument 01:00:27 which nobody but RMS believes, because in the same situation the existence of the closed-source program would make open-source plugins for the open-source app illegal 01:00:33 ais523: rms says his lawyers think the libreadline argument is true 01:00:47 the discordian in me hopes they're right 01:00:47 ehird: yes, but is he really going to hire lawyers who don't? 01:01:03 i'd start an outlawing spree 01:01:12 ais523: very true 01:01:43 bear in mind that BSD's lawyers disagree with the libreadline argument 01:03:50 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:06:29 It's at least complete bullshit with a commercial app for which a GPL-covered project has the same plugin API. 01:06:45 See: NSplugin 01:07:40 heh thought that was a cocoa class for a second 01:14:20 -!- FunctorSalad_ has joined. 01:23:56 FunctorSalad_: you should change your name to Sal "Functor" Lastname 01:28:50 why? 01:29:24 FunctorSalad_: because you're FunctorSal 01:29:37 -!- FunctorSal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:29:41 now you're not. 01:31:06 it means "Functor salt" :) 01:31:29 (actually, I just needed another alternative nick because of my frequent connection losses) 01:43:09 -!- Associat0r has joined. 01:51:34 -!- FunctorSalad_ has quit ("medium cat is, in fact, MEDIUM."). 02:08:40 pikhq: "In fact, all data items are treated as infinite lists of length 1. Other infinite lists may be longer." 02:09:12 ehird: Where's that a quote from? 02:09:21 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haskell, which is otherwise a really shit article. 02:10:03 Ah. 02:11:12 The "Haskell" game box there is decent. Otherwise. 02:52:42 well, it's *meant* to be a really shit article 02:53:43 olsner: No, we mean it's not funny. 02:54:02 "Shit" in the context of Uncyclopedia means incoherent rambling instead of humor. 03:00:50 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:41:39 "PERL is based on the write-only programming paradigm. Since it cannot be read, the costs associated with peer reviews, coding standards, and other so-called industry best-practices are completely eliminated. This is the primary reason that Amazon.com can charge so little for its goods and services." 03:42:17 An error occured while that page was being displayed. Someone is looking into this problem. Thanks for your patience. 03:42:33 I decided to click the button to install an IE addon, while in Firefox for Linux, with NoScript turned on 03:42:37 and that was the result I got 03:42:57 Nice :) 03:43:18 Not like you gave it much to work with :P 03:43:32 I also like the "that page" in the error message 03:44:14 as for Perl, it isn't that bad 03:44:17 it can be, but it usually isn't 03:44:27 one of the projects I'm working on atm is pretty maintainable Perl 03:47:15 :) 03:52:40 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:16:04 -!- augur has joined. 04:25:14 Maintainable Perl? 04:25:27 You should submit it to the International Unobfuscated Perl Code Contest. 04:26:31 international unobfuscated perl code contest 04:26:31 lol 04:54:05 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:17:05 * Warrigal beeps. 05:50:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 06:22:01 -!- chuck has joined. 06:39:59 -!- Pegazus has joined. 06:40:03 -!- Pegazus has left (?). 07:18:02 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:18:08 hi 07:40:40 hi 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:26:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:29:38 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:57:22 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:51:09 -!- asiekierka has set topic: tharr past the river droves, where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the Konami Code AT ALL TIMES | UUDDLRLRBASTART. 10:11:22 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:47:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:52:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:24:47 -!- AnMaster has joined. 12:15:42 -!- JoelyWoely has joined. 12:15:49 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 13:33:16 -!- Deewiant has set topic: tharr past the river droves, where implementing continuations in INTERCAL is commonplace but celebrating australian mailman reminder day for an entire week is weird | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the Konami Code AT ALL TIMES | ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA[start]. 13:34:27 someone find a start button in Unicode 13:37:03 I tried 13:38:02 Searching for neither "start" nor "begin" gave anything useful 13:45:12 * ais523 wonders why there'd be a requirement for the topic to contain the Konami Code 14:01:51 It evidently went from your 'the phrase "esoteric programming languages"' to 'the phrase "illegal discombobulation ribcage"' and now to 'the Konami Code' 14:05:19 Heh, http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/8y4sl/odd_cats_eye_technologies_haskell_projects/ 14:43:55 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 15:06:26 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:08:06 -!- AnMaster has quit (Success). 16:07:07 Huh. Getnoo supports Windows. 16:11:52 You should still, using the U+20e3 combining enclosing keycap, say A⃣ and B⃣. 16:12:25 fizzie: Not supported here. 16:12:32 Not invented here. 16:13:15 Well, there's also the circled Ⓐ and Ⓑ but those don't look very buttony. 16:13:24 fizzie: those are used in manuals 16:13:40 and on many controllers, those buttons are circular 16:13:56 Am I in a Super Nintendo? 16:34:51 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 16:35:09 I broke an eye and called it toroidal. 16:36:04 Also, "International Unobfuscated Perl Contest" made me laugh. 16:38:18 Apparently part of my weird economy-of-expression tendencies have remained even though I'm not having any trouble typing fast and accurately on the iPhone now for some strange reason. 16:39:19 Active place, huh. Welp, bye. 16:39:22 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 16:46:13 that was fast 16:50:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:35:17 -!- darthnuri has joined. 17:39:24 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 17:44:59 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:47:45 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 17:48:08 ais523: What was fast? 17:48:22 you joining and leaving because the channel was dead 17:49:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:49:23 ais523: Well, the iPhone doesn't multitask. 17:49:42 Not gonna sit here staring at the screen like a doofus :) 17:49:54 If I ever make a game on a retro console 17:49:58 it will have 1 requirement: 17:50:07 Pressing the Konami Code enters you ino an esolang interpreter 17:50:17 That's nice asiekierka. 17:50:44 s/ $// 17:53:16 It'd be nice if you could hold down the home button and tap "Background", then open a Switcher app and get a list of backgrounded windows w/ screenshots. Doing multitasking is hard from a mobile UI perspective. 17:54:59 -!- ehirdiphone has quit ("Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"). 17:55:17 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 17:55:41 …it wouldn't stop mistakes like that, though. 17:56:50 Maybe apps could specify whether they suspend by default, and on tapping home it animates the window going in to the switcher icon and increases a count of apps blob on it. 17:57:20 Then holding down home in a suspending app would give you a Quit button. 17:58:51 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 17:59:06 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 17:59:08 Goddamn. 17:59:21 -!- JoelyWoely has changed nick to CESSMASTER. 18:01:01 ais523: that enough waiting for you? :P 18:01:20 heh 18:01:32 Buh-bye. 18:01:33 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 18:15:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:25:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:54:59 -!- asiekiekra has joined. 18:55:30 -!- asiekiekra has quit (Client Quit). 18:58:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:07:39 Maybe apps could specify whether they suspend by default, and on tapping home it animates the window going in to the switcher icon and increases a count of apps blob on it. 19:08:06 if the iphone doesn't have true multitasking, won't irc disconnect due to lack of PING answering anyhow? 19:13:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:35:03 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit ("Page closed"). 20:08:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:37:14 -!- tombom has joined. 21:04:02 -!- unikat has joined. 21:04:50 !bfjoust dumb +++++++++[>-] 21:05:03 Score for unikat_dumb: 0.0 21:06:47 +(>-)*9(>[-].-)*21 21:08:01 !bfjoust dumc +>-->->->-->->[[-]-] 21:08:11 Score for unikat_dumc: 0.0 21:09:03 i think that one never moves far enough to reach the opponent flag 21:11:19 yes you're right. i'm still adopting to brainfuck and may be doing some stupid stuff; hope it's okay to clutter the logs with my all-zero scored entries. 21:11:35 !bfjoust dumd +>-->->->-->->[>[-]-] 21:11:44 Score for unikat_dumd: 0.0 21:12:23 oh and that loop is unlikely to run, because it's probably 0 at the beginning 21:13:39 it's fine to test, it's not like there's a conversation going on anyway 21:14:22 it was much more noisy here when bfjoust was added to EgoBot in the first place :) 21:15:13 !bfjoust dum_e >-(>[-[-[++++]]>]<-)*35 21:15:21 Score for unikat_dum_e: 0.0 21:15:48 okay, I think i am going to re-read the rules... 21:16:54 i understand the competition may be rather fierce these days 21:17:11 so it may be hard to get points even with a working program 21:18:27 !bfjoust dum_e ++++++(>)*10([-]>)*20 21:18:33 Score for unikat_dum_e: 3.8 21:18:40 ah 21:18:40 yeah 21:22:50 !bfjoust dum_e (>)*10([-]>)*20 21:22:56 Score for unikat_dum_e: 4.0 21:24:58 Linking to the high scores might be in order, but I forget the URL 21:25:05 !bfjoust dum_e (>)*10 ( []> )*20 21:25:14 Score for unikat_dum_e: 3.5 21:25:22 well i have the list open in a browser window, it's at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ 21:26:22 so far. good night to all 21:26:23 Yeah, that's it. 21:26:25 -!- unikat has quit ("Leaving"). 22:03:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:04:44 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 22:04:54 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:54:56 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 23:09:00 18:07 oerjan: Maybe apps could specify whether they suspend by default, and on tapping home it animates the window going in to the switcher icon and increases a count of apps blob on it. 23:09:00 18:08 oerjan: if the iphone doesn't have true multitasking, won't irc disconnect due to lack of PING answering anyhow? 23:09:03 I'm talking about implementing it in the OS. The iPhone just uses stripped-down OS X and has processes; it's just that apps are quit when you defocus them. 23:09:29 mhm 23:17:20 Because Apple is lame. 23:25:18 pikhq: Please come back when you've implemented a simple-enough-to-not-need-thinking, elegant way of implementing multitasking on a mobile touchscreen with extremely low processing power and memory. 23:25:25 Oh, and this on a UNIX based system. 23:25:27 have fun 23:26:01 400 MHz is extremely low processing power now? 23:26:21 pikhq: For a full UNIX/OS X system, absolutely. 23:26:34 pikhq: They DID bring out the expensive iPhone 3G S just to bunk it up to 600Mhz... 23:26:50 ... Faster than any UNIX system until about the mid-90s is extremely low? 23:27:01 Modern OS X system, dude. 23:27:05 Late 90s 23:27:20 I was on 400 MHz until 2001 or something 23:27:22 Anyway, fact is that (a) UI and (b) processes suckin' up mah extremely limited kilobytes of RAM are gonna kill it. 23:27:30 KILOBYTES. 23:27:39 Deewiant: 400mhz until 2001? That's...not common 23:27:48 Deewiant: *Any* system. I think Sun started shipping systems of that speed in like 95... 23:28:00 Can we get back to the main point 23:28:07 It's a modern OS X system 23:28:10 pikhq: Yeah, ok, I was thinking consumer x86. 23:28:13 Something with beefy requirements. 23:28:23 Also, megahertz myth, man. 23:28:40 I went from a 400 MHz Pentium-something to a 1200 MHz Duron; wikipedia says they came out in August 2001 23:28:43 the myth, it hertz 23:28:48 The original has 128MB RAM, the GS has 256MB RAM... 23:28:51 And I don't think it was new at the time 23:28:56 So it was probably 2002 or something 23:29:12 pikhq: Mixed up kilo/mega 23:29:20 megabytes is basically kilobytes compared to desktop ram sizes. 23:29:26 400MHz / 128MB ran Windows XP just fine 23:29:37 pikhq: Anyway, even if you've got the processing power you still haven't invented an intuitive UI. 23:30:18 ehird: Small dock at the bottom for running tasks. BAM. 23:30:37 Takes up screen estate, unfortunately, but that's rather intuitive, at least. 23:30:46 One vague line that gives no details whatsoever. Gee, I'm gonna skip the user tests and go straight to production. 23:30:51 Hey Jobs! 23:30:59 OS X dock. 23:31:18 omg, another vague, non-clarifying line. Steve, this is revolutionary. 23:31:32 ... Saying "exactly what OS X has" is vague? 23:32:07 pikhq: so when you hit an application icon — ANY one, even ones that don't need suspending — it'll appear in the dock at tiny size and pop up a window? 23:32:13 And then take up screen real estate ALL THE TIME? 23:32:23 And every process will be multitasked taking up valuable resources? 23:32:27 Your idea is shit. 23:32:51 ehird: 256MB and 600MHz isn't exactly 'scarce resources'. 23:33:21 Not many people have 3G Ss, and dude, we're not running microöptimized software on a bare-bones OS. 23:33:35 The typical iPhone usecase, also, involves a lot of switching around applications that DON'T NEED SUSPENDING. 23:33:41 It's the exception, not the rule, by far. 23:34:26 ehird hasn't the foggiest clue what a system with those specs can do. 23:34:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:34:35 I am well aware. 23:35:08 But you're being a total idiot with your simply false assumptions of how the iPhone's OS works, how applications are written for it, its performance characteristics and the typical usecase. 23:35:20 So I'm pretty much gonna ignore your "Apple are stupid I'm so much better at inventing my one-line multitasking system" thing. 23:35:49 Multitasking is trivial, ehird. 23:37:24 Hell, another way to do it: send programs a message indicating that they're being switched out. The program can choose to close. Have a screen in the program menu for running apps. 23:48:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:57:06 FWIW, I too would dislike the "thou shalt only have one third-party program running at a time" rule, and would rather take some sort of not-perfect multitasking over not-there-at-all simplicity. But I guess it's not the Apply way to do things. 23:57:45 This is the company that took three OS releases to make sure copy and pasting was absolutely flawless. 23:57:54 Yeah; ugly-but-works is very much not the Apple way. 23:58:25 And I can think of exactly those two scenarios everyone seems to mention; a GPS track-where-you-were application and the IRC client. So I guess they'd be reasonable common. 23:58:55 Two. Out of thousands of apps. 23:59:00 Yes, very common... 23:59:11 fizzie: btw, most irc clients have a built-in safari window so you don't lose IRC when clicking links 23:59:21 which pretty much covers most "omg i focused away" things 23:59:30 i'd love multitasking but it's not a simple problem 23:59:33 That doesn't sound very elegant either, to me. Of course no-one asks me. 23:59:38 It's not 2009-07-05: 00:00:56 fizzie: I think my apps-can-specify-whether-to-multitask-or-not is best; if you home-button on a multitasking one, you see it warp into the "Open Applications" icon (not just away into the void), and its little red knob increases count. If you want to quit a multitasking app instead of suspending it, if you hold down home you'll get three buttons: Force Quit (what holding down does now), Quit, and Cancel. 00:01:14 It's just that my five years old Symbian-7.0s-or-something "smart"phone can do the thing. As for UI, it doesn't even try to do anything more than a single application on-screen at a time. It's just that you can use the "switch" button to select which one you want. Oh, and there's some sort of notification system thing where a backgrounded app can put a speech-bubble-like thing on there. 00:01:26 ehird: That would be a decent solution. 00:01:34 That way, only things like IRC clients run in the background; it's easy to see when you background an app vs quitting it; there's visual notification you have backgrounded apps open; and you can choose not to background an app. 00:03:58 Well, I wouldn't mind that. Though I still would be annoyed if I had to quit any sort of complicated-task application just because I wanted to jot down a note. Or was there already some things you still could do without quitting an application? (Though I guess it doesn't matter, I don't see myself iPhonizing anyway.) 00:04:32 fizzie: Well, if you held down the home button, the "Quit" would turn into "Suspend" for non-multitasking apps. 00:04:35 So you could do that. 00:05:01 But I'm sure they've thought about it and I'm sure my trivial idea has been brought up. 00:05:07 It's not terribly intuitive for users, I'd think. 00:07:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 00:15:51 Eh, I think I'll sleep. Have to wake up in 5 hours to be at a church; there's this confirmation thing of the wife's parents' godchild, and for some reason they told me to attend to. Even though oddly enough I seem to start to feel mildly (physically) unwell in any sort of religionistic loci. Strange, that. 00:16:10 fizzie: "religionistic loci" is a brilliant phrase. 00:16:55 I thought "church" would be too common a word, and anyway had already used it once. 00:17:04 I guess it's some sort of incompatibility. Anyway, nights. 00:17:44 fizzie: Wait! 00:17:51 fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. 00:17:54 Do it. Do it now. 00:17:57 ...do it then, rather. 00:20:36 myndzi: \o/ \o/ \o/ 00:20:37 | | | 00:20:37 /< |\ |\ 00:20:43 augur: Augur. 00:20:56 sorry, i just wanted to get some myndzinian \o/ing 00:20:56 | 00:20:57 /\ 00:21:04 augur: "Augur" was a command. 00:21:29 _o_ /o/ \o\ _o/ \o_ /o_ _o\ \o/ /o\ 00:21:29 | | | | | | | | | 00:21:30 /< >\ /< /< |\ /`\ /< /`\ /| 00:21:32 myndzi's script amuses my client; sure, it does mIRC naming, BUT YOU DID NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT I USE A PROPORTIONAL FONT! 00:21:39 ehird: oh. 00:21:41 you're gonna die. 00:21:47 Really? 00:21:50 Wow! 00:22:04 augur: Here I was, thinking I was going to like, NOT die. 00:22:14 well i didnt say i was a very INSIGHTFUL augur 00:22:19 :D 00:22:22 ehird: Proportional fonts are t3h lame. 00:22:48 unless you're writing real documents. 00:22:49 pikhq: Don't say such things or someone will sodomize you with typography. 00:22:52 in which case they're wonderufl. 00:23:03 Wonderufl. 00:23:58 wonderofl 00:24:07 Like a bitch. 00:24:11 Like unto a bitch. 00:24:13 like a virgin 00:25:09 Like unto a virgin bitch. 00:55:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:02:52 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 01:49:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:49:53 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:50:25 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Client Quit). 04:21:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:22:11 Freenode doesn't support + type channels! 04:22:31 Which is of course lame. 04:30:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:37:00 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:46:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:51:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:21:42 whats a + type channel? 05:24:46 -!- Associat0r has joined. 05:25:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:29:58 god that was such a horrible movie 05:30:32 What was? 05:30:47 Transformers 05:32:41 Ah. 05:39:33 give me the cube, boy! 05:39:35 the cube! 05:39:47 THE CUBE 05:39:51 ...mr anderson 05:42:46 CESSMASTER: wat 05:43:05 hugo weaving voiced megatron 05:43:10 oh is that about the fight at the end? 05:43:20 i skipped that part. 05:48:17 then why did you bother sitting through any of the movie at all? 05:51:31 i wanted to see what it was like 05:51:36 so i can say from experience that it was shit 06:01:17 augur: they ruined TF 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:19:31 -!- AnMaster has joined. 08:23:22 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:29:06 -!- Associ8or has joined. 09:45:31 -!- Associat0r has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:05:51 -!- immibis has joined. 10:07:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:16:00 fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. <-- um most european churches are not creationist afaik, so it would just look silly, not majorly offensive. 10:16:35 they'd think he'd gone nuts, and they would be right. 10:17:16 (heck, most _american_ churches are probably not creationist either.) 11:01:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:11:24 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:28:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:08:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 12:17:17 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:39:08 -!- Associ8or has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 13:08:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:11:31 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:11:36 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 13:11:50 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 13:14:00 -!- Associat0r has joined. 13:27:16 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:52:00 -!- M0ny has joined. 15:17:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:21:25 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:56:49 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:00:29 -!- nice has joined. 16:00:59 -!- nice has left (?). 16:14:24 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/langs.png 16:14:25 Heh 16:14:34 This is the first time I ever heard of esolangs 16:25:03 lol 16:26:43 WHY ARE YOU SO SILLY LOOKING INTERCAL 16:30:30 is that u 16:36:21 I am not INTERCAL 17:44:26 -!- ineiros has quit ("leaving"). 17:44:34 -!- ineiros_ has changed nick to ineiros. 18:35:46 -!- Pthingg has joined. 18:44:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:46:29 of course not. _i_ am INTERCAL. also, napoleon. 18:48:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:49:52 ais523 on the other hand is a turing machine. also, jesus. 18:50:29 -!- Pthing has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:52:03 oerjan: I'm not a Turing machine, I don't have infinite memory 18:52:15 Are you a finite state machine? 18:52:31 Wait, I guess not, you can't have infinite input 18:52:42 What's the word for really finite machines 18:52:48 ais523: sure you do, you just need to work on your left/right stepping 18:53:23 Bounded-storage machine 18:53:37 i'm not sure there's a difference. 18:53:41 oerjan : But the earth is wrapping 18:53:45 finite state = bounded-storage... 18:54:02 unless it's only asymptotically bounded in the input. 18:54:03 oerjan : But finite state can do infinite output or input 18:54:17 well so can bounded-storage, surely? 18:54:32 input and output don't need to be stored, after all 18:54:41 iunno 18:54:54 Well, yeah, but in the real world, they exist in some way 18:54:55 is there an actual technical difference... 18:55:38 Slereah: it's not very reassuring that the first google hit on bounded storage machine is the esolangs wiki 18:56:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:56:39 There's also the "real" concept of linear-bounded automata. 18:56:58 oh it's technically different, but not in a way that changes the abstract computability class, i think 18:57:19 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:57:35 bounded-storage machine = like tm but has bounded length tape, finite state automaton = has no tape at all 18:57:53 o 18:58:16 oh wait 18:58:38 for tms, the input and output is included in the tape 18:58:46 so it really is different 18:59:09 afa IO is concerned 18:59:47 or, well, the article discusses both bounded and unbounded input 19:00:27 And the linear-bounded automata has a tape whose length is a linear function of the initial input, to summarize it as briefly. 19:01:59 yeah well that's just a special case of space complexity 19:02:30 or wait 19:03:16 since linear is big enough to include the original input, it is. but for smaller complexity classes one uses a more subtle method. 19:03:33 It's still an interesting special case because it's the automaton-thing that corresponds to context-sensitive grammars. 19:03:39 yeah 19:04:30 for smaller classes one uses extra tapes. the input and output tapes can be as long as you want, but you can _only_ read and write to them, respectively. 19:04:59 while the actual working tape has length O(f(n)) where n is the length of the input tape. 19:05:24 The "BSMs with bounded input" esolang subsection's explanation why it's less powerful than a FSM is (in my mind, anyway) more complicated than the alternative trivial thing, which would be "bounded input == finite language == obviously strictly less powerful than a FSM". 19:05:49 this way you can meaningfully talk about logspace e.g. (a very interesting class i think) 19:06:54 true that 19:08:27 Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. 19:09:00 heh 19:14:58 i expect a lot of them are quite obscure 19:16:39 some like L, P, NP may have special abbreviations because they are so important. others may have special abbreviations because they are so radical no old notation fits for them :D 19:17:21 but there are also the parametrized classes like TIME() NTIME() SPACE() NSPACE() 19:17:50 those are probably as userfriendly as you can get 19:19:36 and things like PSPACE/EXPTIME/EXPSPACE don't _quite_ fit into them, because they are not the SPACE() and TIME() of single functions... 19:19:54 i suppose someone could clean it up a lot if they wanted to though. 20:02:33 -!- nice has joined. 20:03:05 -!- nice has left (?). 20:59:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:16:35 -!- jix has joined. 21:17:44 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 21:17:44 09:16 oerjan: fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. <-- um most european churches are not creationist afaik, so it would just look silly, not majorly offensive. 21:17:48 but darwin looks fucking awesome 21:17:50 i rest my case 21:17:52 09:17 oerjan: (heck, most _american_ churches are probably not creationist either.) 21:17:55 hahahaha! 21:17:56 you wish 21:18:11 Most that are sane are. 21:18:37 huh? 21:18:41 And the sane ones are invariably in major population centers. 21:19:04 um how can you be sane and creationist? 21:19:06 The East Coast, for example, only has sane churches (from my experience) 21:19:17 oerjan: s/Most/All/ 21:19:39 pikhq: are you reading my sentence backwards? 21:19:41 Man, when I went to Boston, it was weird... Churches flew gay pride flags. 21:19:52 18:08 fizzie: Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. 21:19:54 it's like chemistry! 21:19:54 oerjan: I'm being weird. 21:20:14 pikhq: you mean incomprehensible 21:20:24 oerjan: That too. 21:20:26 pikhq: you are reading it backwards :) 21:20:36 you're saying all sane churches are creationist wrt what oerjan said 21:20:50 Which is the exact opposite of what I mean. 21:21:12 21:19 oerjan: um how can you be sane and creationist? ← you know, there's two simple substitutions I could do here, and I'll only do one for sake of not upsetting people 21:21:22 um how can you sane and in #esoteric? 21:21:32 Do the other one, please. 21:21:55 no, you'll lynch me :D 21:22:03 Dubious. 21:22:18 we'll do that anyway. 21:22:27 we are insane, remember? 21:22:29 kay then: um how can you sane and religious? 21:22:29 I'm nearly a complete pacifist here, man. ;) 21:22:45 * ehird is sodomized by a nearby pack of bears 21:22:57 hi pedobear! 21:23:17 i didn't know he had a family 21:23:27 actually, I'm referencing the bible. 21:23:32 So the pedobear gets angry when people diss religion? That's curious. 21:23:40 allow me to quote: 21:23:41 Ah, yes, the pack of bears. 21:23:51 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head." 21:23:53 "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." 21:24:11 The morale? "If you call someone a baldhead, bears will fuck you up." 21:24:15 tare = scared, BTW. 21:24:27 "As long as said baldhead curses you." 21:24:30 i vaguely recall i used that quote to chase a jehova's witness away once. haven't seen any since. 21:24:42 (well not the quote but that story) 21:25:04 Of course, that only works well on people who hold the Bible to be 100% literal truth. 21:25:12 *seen any near my home since 21:25:21 pikhq: as opposed to the even crazier ones who pick at will :-P 21:25:31 they keep handing out pamphlets in town, of course 21:25:33 i want some jehovah's witnesses to come by here so I can tell them I've been excommunicated 21:25:43 er 21:25:45 disfellowshipped 21:25:50 terminology, ehird. 21:25:51 terminology. 21:26:23 http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/happy-plane.jpg Adorable. 21:26:26 Gah, this makes me ashamed of my country-place: http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060810_evo_rank_02.jpg 21:27:06 fizzie: yow; you guys have a lot of crazy people then? 21:27:15 strange that norway and sweden are much further up 21:27:25 aren't the three countries usually quite similar? 21:27:32 Yes, that's the strange bit. 21:27:35 i mean, modulo culture 21:28:30 ... Only 40% of people in the US accept evolution? 21:28:39 Dude, pikhq 21:28:42 Where have you been? 21:28:48 The US is a shitfest. 21:28:51 Admittedly they did an "intelligent design" lecture in our university and all. But that was all the work of one crazy person, I think. 21:28:58 I thought it was at least 50%... 21:29:23 Anyway, you all need to GET A BRAIN! MORANS 21:29:24 GO USA 21:29:42 * pikhq is strongly considering moving 21:30:00 pikhq: But if you move you won't have to put your packets IN SPACE. 21:30:26 ehird: JOY! 21:30:43 I don't want packets in space, I want *civilization* IN SPACE! 21:30:52 I want to move to TIME. 21:30:56 And put my TIME in SPACE. 21:31:00 It'll be FREAKY. 21:31:39 Every time I idly think about what country I'd like to move to, basically my main concern beyond the whole "nice set of freedoms" thing is the internet. 21:31:40 XD 21:31:59 Because I can't even get more than 6mbps here, and the best in the UK is 24mbps. 21:32:29 Which is pretty much on par with the US. 21:32:48 I really don't know why people like the USA. 21:33:06 Low IQ. 21:33:21 It's not particularly pretty in most of the places, your politics are seriously right-wing, your internet is 3rd-world, an awful lot of stupid people dwell there, it's insanely corporate... 21:34:11 About the only thing we've got going for us is that our university system is pretty good – IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. 21:34:27 That's true, I'd love to go to mit. 21:34:48 (Unfortunately there's other obstacles to that, like I don't think I'd do terribly well :P) 21:35:41 Well, actually... 21:35:57 I don't like how they've made their CS course into a practical thing. 21:36:10 Dropping SICP, changing to Python and making you drive a stupid robot was the stupidest thing a university has ever done. 21:36:41 ehird, US. We've got universities with far more stupidity. 21:36:49 true. 21:37:09 Most state-funded universities spend most of their funds on their sports teams. 21:37:31 There are two accredited universities that I know of, one teaches creationism and the other is part of a cult :) 21:37:32 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/langs.png <-- fails to resolve as usual here. 21:37:43 AnMaster: use opendns. 21:37:56 it's faster to boot. 21:40:53 Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. <-- you could say they are.... complex 21:41:07 not funny not funny not funny 21:45:55 "Next time you wonder to yourself why a bug exists in Microsoft software, consider the possibility that Microsoft simply want it that way." 21:46:43 it's faster to boot. <-- my dns is so fast I don't notice any slowness compared to opendns 21:46:59 but iirc opendns did some crazy redirecting thingy for a few sites or something 21:47:09 AnMaster: Two things. 21:47:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDNS#Privacy_issues.2C_conflicts_and_covert_redirection 21:47:27 "A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely slower." Your DNS does not resolve some sites, and besides OpenDNS is unlikely to be _slower_. 21:47:31 AnMaster: Second. 21:47:33 You can disable that. 21:47:41 It takes three seconds to disable everything and just give you DNS 21:48:09 Also, that article is... not unbiased. 21:48:40 Use OpenNIC instead. 21:48:57 "This redirection breaks some non-web applications which rely on getting an NXDOMAIN for non-existent domains, such as e-mail spam filtering, or VPN access where the private network's nameservers are consulted only when the public ones fail to resolve." <-- I use such programs btw. 21:48:57 No, don't, unless you're part of the lunatic fringe of DNS. 21:49:02 AnMaster: SO DISABLE IT 21:49:07 LIKE I DID! 21:49:25 ehird, I see. So I need to login to use this dns? That means I need to login every time my ip changes? 21:49:26 or what? 21:49:36 Since I have a very dynamic ip that would be a PITA 21:49:47 AnMaster: If your IP is dynamic, then yes, you need to run a program to update it. There are daemons which take up about zero usage that do it automatically. 21:49:50 basically, every time the adsl modem reconnects I get a new ip 21:50:03 That's... everyone without an explicit static IP, not "very". 21:50:10 Most people leave their ADSL connected, though... 21:50:18 ehird, too much work for one single site being broken which Slereah mentioned was broken from many other places too (see logs from 2009) 21:50:36 AnMaster: there have been many others that you have said don't resolve. 21:50:39 ehird, yeah, but sometimes it disconnects for no obvious reason 21:50:49 often when there are thunderstorms for example 21:50:51 *shrug* 21:51:04 if you don't want to fix the resolution and don't care about it being faster, then at least don't point it out and complain about an easily fixable problem. 21:51:14 ehird, a few has been timing out yes. IIRC most of them did resolve 21:51:26 when was the last one? 21:51:35 and how many during 2009 21:51:44 I don't know. I don't remember such things because I don't care enough. 21:51:44 ehird, it isn't slow! 21:51:46 to resolve 21:51:57 "it can be faster" does not mean "it is slow". 21:51:58 ehird, in fact, resolving is very snappy. 21:52:10 Most resolvers are. 21:52:39 ehird, what ip for opendns 21:52:47 * AnMaster is going to time "host" 21:53:08 ah found it 21:53:09 I don't help lazy people attempt to make invalid, vague experiments without even a sufficient sample size or reptition 21:53:16 repetition 21:53:21 AnMaster: without disabling the proxying, it may be slower. 21:54:00 using resolver1.opendns.com (208.67.222.222) it is around 0.182s-0.197s to resolve irc.freenode.net 21:54:06 * AnMaster checks his isp one 21:54:27 (a) you're using the domain for the resolver, so you're doing two requests 21:54:34 (b) see what I said about sample size, repetition 21:54:38 (c) see what I said about proxying 21:54:39 0.136s-0.161s 21:54:50 ehird, I did 20 samples each 21:54:51 in short, your results are bullshit 21:54:59 AnMaster: that is not "sample size". 21:55:00 as for proxying, yes sure 21:55:11 ehird, sure, other domains too. 21:55:26 O RLY? 21:55:27 Furthermore, (a) and (c). 21:55:48 ehird, I wasn't using domain for resolver 21:55:51 where did I say I was 21:55:54 Furthermore, (c). 21:55:59 And "AnMaster: using resolver1.opendns.com (". 21:56:05 ehird, I gave the ip there 21:56:09 which was what I actually used 21:56:14 AnMaster: Additionally, you're claiming you can perceive 0.02sec 21:56:16 I was using the host name for clarity over irc 21:56:22 ehird, when? 21:56:23 Protip: you cannot. 21:56:27 I thought that was you 21:56:28 ... 21:56:32 AnMaster: That is the difference between the two speeds. 21:57:37 ehird, normal resolving is 0.016 here though. dnsmasq on localhost 21:57:51 but here I explicitly used my isp's one just to show you 21:58:02 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:58:04 So use dnsmasq with OpenDNS. 21:58:05 ehird, also above I said: it's faster to boot. <-- my dns is so fast I don't notice any slowness compared to opendns 21:58:12 means: I can't notice any difference 21:58:15 " AnMaster: Additionally, you're claiming you can perceive 0.02sec" 21:58:16 you fail 21:58:32 if you can't notice any difference then which one you use doesn't matter for speed, so we defer to "it can resolve more sites". 21:58:58 ehird, software daemon for the dynamic ip thing for opendns? 21:59:30 searching for "opendns" in package repo yielded no results 22:00:13 AnMaster: make an account, add a network, go to settings, ignore content filtering, click stats and logs, decheck enable, apply, advanced settings, enable dynamic IP update, uncheck typo correction and .cm, uncheck shortcuts, proxy and botnet 22:00:22 AnMaster: I'll check for a linux program 22:00:36 thanks 22:01:27 AnMaster: http://www.opendns.com/support/dynamic_ip_downloads/ None for Linux, unfortunately, but http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=update+ip+opendns+linux&aq=f&oq=&aqi= might help. From the "Technical Details" tab it just seems to be a POST over https. 22:01:29 AnMaster: Found it. 22:01:33 elinks -auto-submit 1 -dump https://username:password@updates.opendns.com/nic/update? 22:01:34 "Oops, you aren't using OpenDNS yet. Go back to Step 1 to set up OpenDNS." <-- wait, you can't create an account before you use their dns server? huh? 22:01:41 AnMaster: You did it rong. 22:01:47 It should work if you set the IPs. 22:02:11 ehird, hm? I was going to create an account before I was going to change what resolver I'm using... 22:02:16 Oh. 22:02:19 Well I think you might have to 22:02:40 AnMaster: there's one of them 22:02:40 http://www.opendns.com/support/article/192 22:02:44 ddclient 22:02:47 tada 22:02:57 ehird, ddclient is for updating dyndns and such? 22:03:02 I use ddclient already 22:03:04 Click the article. 22:03:09 You can make it work for opendns. 22:03:14 hm 22:03:17 It uses the dyndns protocol. 22:03:26 interesting 22:03:34 Make sure to do the tick things I said; it's the combination you need to disable all the fluff. 22:03:55 yeah... also it seems I can't create the account in lynx? 22:03:57 huh 22:04:03 It does JS stuff, I think. 22:04:07 Just use a proper browser :p 22:04:20 Their site and the guide aren't too nice, but the service is great. 22:04:55 the site isn't accessible. As in WAI. Not as in resolving. 22:05:07 as far as I can see 22:05:15 Yes, well, many sites aren't. 22:05:17 It's a sad reality. 22:05:21 * pikhq randomly notes that someone needs to write an ECMAscript compiler 22:05:45 AnMaster: thankfully, most actual screenreaders are far more clever than the w3c gives credit for 22:06:01 ehird, yeah, because they have to be 22:06:04 I love mailinator btw 22:06:19 (fuck you opendns!) 22:06:39 AnMaster: Ha! With gmail I just do penguinofthegods+COMPANY@gmail.com. Then if they can spam me I can tell and shun them forever. 22:07:09 ehird, you could quite easily figure out what part was the real one though... 22:07:18 ehird, oh and I checked, it doesn't work on my isp :/ 22:07:22 AnMaster: No, because + is a valid character in email addresses. 22:07:30 foo+bar+quirky@awesomemail.com is perfectly valid. 22:07:38 And foo+bar+floopy doesn't need to be the same person. 22:07:44 Admittedly nobody cares and you could detect, but nobody does because nobody cares. 22:08:06 ehird, oh, isn't the the "redirect to the same account thing"? but with some sort of alias 22:08:12 or was that something else 22:08:21 Eh? 22:08:29 It's a gmail feature. 22:08:33 The + is just a convention there, is I guess what ehird wants to say. 22:08:38 Gmail also ignores dots, so you can do penguinofth.egods@gmail.com 22:08:39 It's not exactly a gmail-only thing. 22:08:50 I've only heard it for gmail 22:09:08 I think qmail used to have some sort of easy/built-in support for it too. 22:09:12 ehird, I think I was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail_address#Sub-addressing 22:09:31 Oh, they've written an RFC about it. 22:09:44 gmail uses - for it? 22:09:46 er 22:09:47 qmail 22:09:48 That's evil. 22:09:54 because-nobody-hyphenates-words-like-lisp? 22:10:23 ehird, Err what has djb got to do with lisp? 22:10:28 Or have I missed something 22:10:31 I thought it was +. But I could be wrong. 22:10:39 this-is-lisp-style-hyphenation. read-your-link-AnMaster-and-read-the-qmail-part. 22:10:46 On the other hand, most installations of the qmail and Courier Mail Server products support the use of a hyphen '-' as a separator within the local-part, such as joeuser-tag@example.com or joeuser-tag-sub-anything-else@example.com 22:10:55 anyway, I checked, none of those work on my isp 22:10:58 So you can't have an-email-account-with-a-hyphen-in. 22:11:00 they use qmail btw... 22:11:06 guess they turned it off or something 22:11:15 AnMaster: NOT EVEN anmaster(poop)@isp.com???????????????? 22:11:34 ehird, well the comment is cut out on client side iirc? 22:11:46 Yes :P 22:12:02 ehird, right: mu 22:15:11 -!- M0ny has quit. 22:16:19 this-is-lisp This. Is. SPARTAAAAA. 22:17:27 Postfix has a "recipient_delimiter" parameter you can set to, for example, "+", but it's not on by default. And a couple of other settings that talk about what happens to those things in address-rewriting. 22:20:50 But + is what all the documentation examples use. 22:27:50 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:31:08 ehird, this now fails to resolve some geoip thingys correctly, like google 22:31:15 so google is slower now 22:31:26 Uh, that's not right. 22:31:27 It works fine for me. 22:31:38 If it's going wrong, you did something wrong. 22:32:02 ehird, ? 22:32:17 geoip stuff works perfectly for me. 22:32:40 ehird, maybe they have a resolver in UK but not one in Sweden? 22:32:57 i thought you had a dns cache thing, anyway? 22:33:06 -!- nice has joined. 22:33:07 Surely you tend to only resolve google once in 500 years? 22:33:21 ehird, wrong, I use it a lot 22:33:31 ...that doesn't mean you resolve it a lot. 22:33:34 -!- nice has left (?). 22:34:07 ehird, also I didn't mean that. I meant that I get a google server that is 25 hops away according to traceroute, instead of 10 like before. One in US instead of in Europe. 22:34:17 Yeah, that shouldn't happen 22:34:25 ehird, so why does it 22:34:43 Why not ask ehird, the master of OpenDNS knowledge? I'll take a look. 22:34:51 ehird, thanks 22:35:04 AnMaster: As a worst-case scenario, you can add google.com to your /etc/hosts. 22:35:11 AnMaster: Does it still say "Go to Google Sweden" on the page? 22:35:30 ehird, yes 22:35:36 I think their servers handle that somehow 22:35:51 I wouldn't think google would assume country(dns)=country(user). 22:35:56 Surely the IP they give you picks a server. 22:35:59 ehird, oh and it actually says "Go to Google Sverige" 22:36:04 Sverige! 22:36:05 Yarrr 22:36:14 wait... firefox is probably not using the new one *restarts firefox* 22:36:56 Ctrl-F5 or whatever. 22:37:25 ehird, that text is gone now 22:37:31 after restarting firefox 22:37:36 ctrl-f5 didn't change it however 22:37:39 AnMaster: Then our problem is definitely separate; it still tells me I can use the UK site. 22:37:56 AnMaster: traceroute opendns 22:38:01 see where there server is 22:38:07 for you 22:38:28 * AnMaster waits 22:38:37 15 hops so far and still going 22:39:26 lots of "no reply" fffs... 22:39:33 oh wait, that was *tracepath* 22:39:38 * AnMaster tries again with traceroute 22:40:39 hm lots of no-reply too 22:42:04 ehird, http://pastebin.ca/K72ch2Y7 (pass abcd) 22:42:17 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:42:22 Why on earth did you use a password? 22:42:31 ehird, because I wanted to see how it worked 22:42:35 heh 22:42:51 AnMaster: Well, just find out where the server you're using is, 'sall :P 22:43:03 ehird, that trace ends up in UK 22:43:13 x.X 22:43:14 so the opendns server is somewhere in UK clearly 22:43:22 maybe 22:43:24 AnMaster: but it doesn't offer to send you to the UK google 22:43:27 as mine does 22:43:38 ehird, correct. It didn't offer me anything at all 22:43:53 except suggesting that I was lucky. I disagree. 22:44:23 That's very strange. Thankfully it shouldn't affect much more than Google and you can put that in /etc/hosts. I suggest making a thread on the OpenDNS forums for a long-term solution. 22:44:41 ehird, I do use some other geodns thingies 22:44:50 lets see what happens to kernel.org 22:45:40 wait, they stopped using geodns? heh 22:45:51 September 19, 2008: mirrors.kernel.org has been flipped over to using our new GeoDNS based bind server (named-geodns). This means that, at the dns query level, our servers will attempt to direct you to the nearest / fastest kernel.org mirror for your request. This means that you no longer have to use mirrors.us.kernel.org or mirrors.eu.kernel.org to generally route you to the right place. This does mean a change to mirrors.kernel.org no longer explicitly 22:45:53 pointing at mirrors.us.kernel.org. Additional information on named-geodns will be forth coming, check back here for an addendum soon. 22:45:56 No? 22:46:01 oh mirrors 22:46:02 right 22:46:06 I meant the main page 22:46:13 as in www.kernel.org vs. eu.kernel.org 22:46:16 ah 22:47:20 ehird, okay, opendns dumps me on the EU ones, but if the resolver is in UK that would be suspected. 22:47:47 AnMaster: It really should only affect things like Google; there aren't going to be all that many sites that both use GeoDNS and are big enough to have a server in multiple places in the EU. 22:48:08 ehird, hm... 22:48:33 microsoft? 22:48:33 Buy some rackspace and set up a Swedish server for them :-P 22:48:42 AnMaster: Do you really want Microsoft's site to load fast? :) 22:48:51 ehird, not really 22:48:58 As slow as possible plz 22:49:33 anyway microsoft.com resolves to somewhere in US using both my ISP's DNS and opendns 22:49:45 iirc they use microsoft.se and such too 22:49:50 I might misremember 22:49:52 As slow as possible still implies that it can be accesed. 22:49:55 Microsoft, see? 22:49:57 8 nyc9-core-2.pos2-0.swip.net (130.244.194.205) 124.187 ms 125.484 ms 125.713 ms 22:49:57 9 some.new-york.router.msn.net (130.244.200.202) 127.790 ms 125.200 ms 127.039 ms 22:49:58 hm 22:50:04 some.new-york.router? 22:50:05 :-D 22:50:09 9 shows unusual humour for being microsoft 22:50:42 ehird, I'm a bit scared, this shows microsoft can actually manage to not totally fail to be funny 22:50:51 (sorry for double negation... I think) 22:50:57 Nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. 22:51:04 AnMaster: To be honest, individual Microsofties are okay, and I imagine slipping that hostname by the bean counters would be easy enough. 22:51:11 To be fair, rather. 22:51:17 heh 22:51:40 Microsofties <-- why does this sound like some sort of teddy bear... 22:52:17 or maybe something clean-ex like thingy, with microfibres 22:52:28 also... lycos still fails to resolve 22:52:29 "softies" 22:52:31 ehird: Yeah; most of the awfulness of MS comes from their truly awful corporate structure. 22:52:35 AnMaster: What, really? 22:52:35 XD 22:52:37 Flush DNS cache? 22:52:59 Among other things, nobody has access to the full Windows source code. 22:53:11 Or API documentation, for that matter. 22:53:14 hrrm 22:53:21 pikhq: The buildbot sure does ;-) 22:53:21 which dns cache 22:53:26 AnMaster: Your local one? 22:53:36 ehird: For obvious reasons. 22:54:17 ehird, yeah I flushed it... but I think maybe nss keeps one too 22:54:18 or something 22:54:22 host works, firefox doesn't 22:54:33 so clearly there is a hidden cache somewhere 22:54:54 http://web.archive.org/web/20031203024955/http://illusionary.com/GNOMEvKDE.html ;; someone should make a Windows entry for this 23:00:25 [[So there's over 4 million lines of kernel source. Let's assume 10% is 23:00:26 comments, so there's about 3.6 million lines left. Each of those lines 23:00:27 has to be checked for C++ keywords. Assume that you can do about 5 23:00:29 seconds per line (very optimistic), work 24 hours per day, and 7 days 23:00:31 a week:]] 23:00:32 This is from a kernel developer. 23:00:34 Translation: "What is grep?" 23:01:38 ... 23:02:35 pikhq: when you move from the US, move OS too. 23:02:47 OS? 23:03:00 Kernel. Sorry, zealot ;-) 23:03:02 Operating System. 23:03:05 Ah. 23:03:19 pikhq: Oh, I thought you were doing some GNU/Linux terminology shit :P 23:03:21 I do believe that that is far too dumb. 23:03:32 No, just a thinko. 23:04:04 oh I see 23:04:20 AnMaster: ? 23:04:29 But seriously. Grep? 23:04:39 lycos.fr fails to resolve due to broken glue upsetting dnsmasq 23:04:48 I can do 5 milliseconds per line, working 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. 23:04:57 No use crying over broken clue. 23:04:57 pikhq: 5ms per line? 23:04:57 it seems 23:05:03 AnMaster: You realise dnsmasq caches, right? 23:05:04 ehird, so it won't help 23:05:08 pikhq, I cleared it 23:05:09 ehird: If that. 23:05:12 and even restarted dnsmasq 23:05:12 pikhq: What kind of chip you got in there, a dorito? 23:05:23 pikhq, so I think I made sure to avoid that issue 23:05:24 More to the point... what kind of harddrive? 23:05:31 Crappy. 23:05:41 5ms to process a sequentially-read file? 23:06:12 FYI: I just tried with bind 9.4.3... it fails too on lycos.fr 23:06:29 AnMaster: But you can look it up directly with opendns, right? 23:06:37 So as long as you hook up your cache/proxy/etc, it should work fine. 23:06:49 ehird, I always use local cache 23:06:58 So hook it up to OpenDNS, and it'll work. 23:07:03 read 23:07:04 ehird: I was off by an order of magnitude, Mmkay? 23:07:06 before you speak 23:07:11 ehird, please 23:07:14 (or more) 23:07:23 AnMaster: How about telling me what I said incorrectly? I read. 23:08:22 ehird, it fails due to broken glue for the lycos.fr domain. This happens even with opendns. It depends on the cache software. Since using host directly on isp for it works. And on OpenDNS. 23:08:41 Surely your cache just directly caches the OpenDNS response? 23:08:41 but using dnsmasq, it gets confused by the glue so it can't resolve it 23:08:48 bind also has the same issue 23:08:53 ehird, can't you fucking read? 23:09:04 and yes it is set to forward 23:09:24 AnMaster: Your rebuttal to what I say is just "you're not reading", despite the fact that I have read it all. Perhaps you should consider the unthinkable alternative: I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. 23:09:35 ehird, oh ok 23:09:52 Why would glue break the DNS cache? Don't they just directly cache OpenDNS' response? 23:10:23 ehird, well, I don't know this well enough to explain it well, what I'm saying is based on logged error messages and tcpdump here. I don't understand DNS well enough internally to know *why* this is an issue. 23:10:49 Try djbdns' dnscache? 23:10:55 But some googling indicates it is due to broken glue on the domain, a phrase I heard before. IIRC there is an explaination on djb's site 23:10:58 (if you don't mind daemontools cruft) 23:10:59 ehird, might. 23:11:10 ehird, I already use qmail, remember! 23:11:16 What, on your local system? 23:11:21 ehird, um yes? 23:11:25 o_O 23:11:26 you use postfix instead? 23:11:28 or what 23:11:36 I use a mail server. 23:11:43 ehird, yes, an MTA. 23:11:48 Ess Em Tee Pee. 23:11:49 for cron output and such 23:11:54 ... 23:11:55 Ah. 23:12:07 AnMaster: But my system is not on 24/7 23:12:11 What use is cron output to me? 23:12:13 ehird, mine is 23:12:32 I postulate that you use a server that happens to have a graphical terminal attached to it, not a desktop. 23:12:34 ehird, and I always have script checking logs based on white-listing regexps! 23:12:39 Yes I am paranoid. 23:12:49 -!- nice has joined. 23:12:56 good thing when there is a thing in /var/log/messages about SMART indicating disk is failing 23:13:05 wouldn't be nice to not notice it 23:13:06 It will be a day of infinite jest, that one where a trivial backdoor in your system causes all your data to be decrypted and stolen 23:13:21 ehird, hm? 23:13:23 hah 23:13:37 * oerjan scribbles down AnMaster for his local chapter of Paranoiac Persecutors Anonymous 23:13:44 oerjan: hey, that's a good idea. 23:13:47 ehird, I am aware of that no system is perfect... But data-diodes are so damn expensive ;P 23:13:54 I should set up a secret society to pander to all conspiracy theories, except we only do it to the paranoids. 23:14:04 oerjan, Paranoiac Persecutors Anonymous? 23:14:25 we persecute paranoid people. anonymously. 23:14:30 oh wait... read it as *panoramic* 23:14:32 "Can I use djbdns without daemontools? Yes." 23:14:33 sweet 23:14:35 http://www.fefe.de/djbdns/ 23:14:37 now it makes a bit more sense 23:14:44 ehird, didn't you know? 23:14:57 i only tried to set it up once and couldn't get it workin 23:14:57 g 23:14:58 ehird, you can use anything that handles wrapping them in some way 23:15:04 but it left a shitload of daemontools crap 23:15:05 inittab would work iirc 23:15:07 :P 23:15:19 <3 bsd init 23:15:22 ehird, also... getting *any* MTA to work is hard. 23:15:24 so much nicer than sysv 23:15:32 ehird, was just an example 23:15:37 yah 23:15:40 AnMaster: MTA? 23:15:43 I'm talking about dns 23:15:45 oh that too 23:15:49 but MTA is worse 23:16:11 there is all the "get all the dns shit right or everyone will think you are a spammer" bit too 23:16:45 reverse dns, forward dns, right response, right error codes, right forward domains list, right own domains list... 23:16:50 and so on... and so on... 23:18:12 -!- nice has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:18:21 I'm so happy for outsourcing. 23:18:32 (The internet services kind.) 23:23:09 "we're now outsourcing our email filtering to china" 23:24:13 well i'm outsourcing your mom to your face. 23:25:03 I'm so happy for outsourcing. <-- examples? 23:25:10 email, dns. 23:25:23 ehird, which specific provider is doing it? 23:25:33 btw, why do you think daemontools is bad? 23:25:37 email - google, dns - opendns 23:25:49 ehird, lots of other email services 23:25:53 thanfully 23:25:58 thankfully* 23:25:59 google's is better. 23:26:14 and it beats a small company; google don't have -time- to read my email. 23:26:20 ehird, my own server > anyone else * (true for each sysadmin) 23:26:22 AnMaster: pollution in the form of /service, and other things 23:26:35 also, I have better things to do than fuck around with such things 23:26:40 ehird, yeah it should have used /etc/daemontools/service or such 23:26:42 gmail does verything i want 23:26:49 verything? 23:26:52 intentional or not 23:26:53 everything 23:27:01 verything sounds nice though 23:27:09 kind of like "very everything" 23:27:15 something you would say! 23:27:33 lol 23:28:07 ehird, downside is it would be hard to differentiate from "very thing" when spoken. (As in: "the very thing") 23:28:22 Solution. lojban 23:28:24 :| 23:28:44 mi'e eliat xrd with some punctuation I don't care to remember 23:28:54 also with the caveat that that lojbanization sucks. 23:29:07 ehird, ah, but with the wrong punctuation it means "your wife is a big hippo" 23:29:10 ;P 23:29:23 lojban would never do that to me 23:29:26 would you lojban <3 23:29:31 heh 23:29:49 ehird, I seriously hope you got that reference at least! 23:30:13 after googling, no, I still don't. 23:30:28 ehird, ever read "Interesting times". I think it was that book 23:30:32 Oh, tv tropes informs me it's terry pratchett. 23:30:46 ehird, right. And a pretty famous line too 23:30:48 — fuck, I clicked on tv tropes. 23:30:53 ehird, hah 23:30:59 phew 23:31:00 ehird: me too :D 23:31:01 nice and quiet evening in here then 23:31:03 googled for the book name to escape 23:31:23 AnMaster: tv tropes says "interesting seasons" 23:31:23 ehird, I managed the art of escaping tv troupes easily 23:31:24 weird 23:31:37 googling doesn't suggest that's a real book 23:31:40 ehird, wget and render to text with no links! 23:31:49 wget? w3m -dump, bitch 23:31:52 ehird, it's "Interesting times" 23:31:55 ehird, that would work too 23:32:09 ehird, so someone messed it up on tv troupes 23:32:12 ehird, go edit it! 23:32:24 if reading tv tropes does this, I can't imagine how bad editing would be 23:32:43 ehird, you would end up making a webcomic with lego. 23:32:53 (yes DMM edits on tv troupes in case you didn't know) 23:33:19 oerjan, iwc btw 23:33:32 oerjan, and I agree with the annotation 23:34:08 I wicky 23:34:40 ehird, ? 23:34:44 IWC. 23:34:51 haha 23:34:56 :P 23:39:22 -!- immibis has joined. 23:40:27 ehird, does the quality of the sound card really effect how much bass it can produce? comparing with a mic (using same mixer settings) between the on-board audio and the sb live card, then using audacity to plot the frequencies show that the on board card cut off frequencies below about 40-50 Hz 23:40:37 ehird, iirc you said something about on-board being as good? 23:40:40 this is VIA btw 23:40:43 let me get exact model 23:40:47 How modern is this onboard? 23:40:56 And are frequencies <40-50hz actually audible? 23:40:57 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60) 23:41:10 ehird, from 2008 iirc. since I had the mobo replaced on warranty then 23:41:18 What market range is the mobo? 23:41:20 might be 2007, but it was replaced in 2008 anyway 23:41:30 ehird, not sure how you define those 23:41:37 How much would it cost retail? 23:41:45 $30? $70? $200? 23:42:08 If you don't know... how many RAM slots does it haev? 23:42:09 *have 23:42:11 ehird, went on warranty and they had to replace with a different brand, so no idea about the new one 23:42:16 the old one... don't remmeber 23:42:18 remember* 23:42:40 It's an Asus K7V-X SE anyway 23:42:52 err 23:42:54 K8* 23:42:55 not 7 23:42:57 typo 23:43:16 a quick glance suggests budget 23:43:27 ehird, two ram slots. 23:43:32 yeah, budget. 23:43:44 anyway, this is irrelevant if <40-50hz isn't audible 23:43:45 I doubt it is 23:44:25 Does anyone know how to embed a large (4-5MB) binary file in an executable when compiling it with gcc on windows? 23:44:31 ehird, I can notice the difference with the dubwoofer in this recording of Vivaldi's summer (City of London Sinfonia) 23:44:41 hmm, ok, it is audible 23:44:46 lowest c on an 88 key piano is 32hz 23:44:57 AnMaster: dubwoofer? Is that like a subwoofer but for extra treble? 23:44:58 ehird, yes it is very very noticeable here 23:45:03 ehird, sub* 23:45:04 typo :P 23:45:13 i hope you got my joke. 23:45:19 anyway, then your onboard sound sucks I guess 23:45:20 ehird, alas I did not 23:45:38 dub? I only know what that is in Swedish 23:45:39 AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_music 23:45:44 heh 23:45:44 it always sounds trebley to me 23:45:55 dub in Swedish is the stuff you have on winter tyres(sp?) 23:46:02 the pointy metal bits 23:46:10 to make it get a better grip on ice 23:46:20 ... You've got pointer metal bits on your winter tires? 23:46:35 AnMaster: call them MËTAL TIRES 23:46:41 Hmm, there's a thing I like about vinyl 23:46:43 You can listen to the needle 23:46:49 pikhq, http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbdäck 23:46:54 sorry, was "dubb" not "dub" 23:47:05 how can you not know of them 23:47:06 oh wait 23:47:15 you live in the south 23:47:23 ...he does? 23:47:26 I would guess a Canadian knew 23:47:36 ehird: Missouri's in the South. 23:47:39 I used to live in Colorado. 23:47:43 Yes, but it's south of North America. 23:47:58 Which tended to have rather rough winters. 23:48:05 True, though :P 23:48:09 anyway see the link I gave 23:48:15 there is a .no interwiki link too 23:48:19 * AnMaster asks oerjan for help 23:48:39 Though generally you only needed extra traction for mountain roads, and so you'd stick chains on your tires. 23:49:45 Ah. English is "stud". 23:49:49 I wonder if you can get them on bicycle wheels. 23:49:53 heh 23:49:54 Bump! Bump! Bump! Bump! 23:50:01 pikhq, what about highways? 23:50:15 pikhq, I mean, when it is snowing so much they haven't had time to remove the snow yet. 23:50:20 it happens here a lot 23:50:39 the plows just can't remove the snow as fast as it is falling. 23:51:09 In most of the US, that happens at most once a year. 23:51:10 snowplows I guess is the right term 23:51:27 The rest of the year, studded tires just damage the roads. 23:51:44 Chains do the same thing, but they can be removed easily. 23:51:55 pikhq, well, the first time every year it happens tends to be worst. Because somehow everyone is unprepared. Even though they know it happened every year before around this time of the year. +/- a week or two 23:52:08 The rest of the year, studded tires just damage the roads. <-- indeed 23:52:35 "C1016744Approximately the tone that a typical CRT television emits while running. " 23:52:36 norwegian cities (including trondheim) have a special stud tax to encourage people to use stud-free winter tires 23:52:36 which is why you aren't allowed to use studded tires during the summer 23:52:36 AAAAAAAAAAARGH 23:52:45 that file + my ears = kill 23:52:56 ehird, link? 23:53:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequencies 23:53:01 at the bottom 23:53:02 heh 23:53:03 Honestly, I didn't know you could get studded tires. 23:53:21 pikhq, it is very common here during winter. 23:53:26 I guess they're banned or *something*. 23:53:38 oh and it's illegal to use studs in the summer 23:53:42 ehird: That's an annoying tone, yes. 23:53:46 oerjan, yeah it works great in cities... But not out on the countryside 23:53:54 pikhq: all CRTs make it 23:53:55 oerjan, and studs really help on ice 23:53:56 I can hear it 23:54:04 ehird, so can I 23:54:16 s/ / / 23:55:23 ehird: Believe me, I know. 23:55:33 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:55:36 WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 23:55:37 *grumble* why did anyone get the not so bright idea to put connectors on the back of desktops 23:55:45 AnMaster: This is why people use tire chains in the US. ;) 23:55:45 AnMaster: aesthetics 23:55:52 AnMaster: most modern cases have usb ports in front 23:55:55 and some others 23:56:11 ehird, what? the aesthetics of a knee pressing the reset button by mistake when you bend behind the computer? 23:56:14 That happened to me 23:56:27 Put your computer on your desk. 23:56:30 also IMO aesthetics should go to hell when it makes things impractical 23:56:36 Meh. 23:56:39 USB ports in front is fine. 23:56:43 ehird, yes it is 23:56:43 Covers 90% of stuff. 23:56:55 but I needed line out... 23:57:26 Bleh, my case only has one USB port in front ._. 23:57:35 I have two of them in front 23:57:36 buy a new one 23:57:49 Moral of the story: USB needs to be about as fast as PCIe x16. 23:57:50 It's not THAT important 23:58:03 Only stick USB ports on computers. 23:58:07 FireFly: What, not $30 important? 23:58:08 pikhq: Yes please. 23:58:21 Multiple port types are the suck. 23:58:22 pikhq, should be even faster! 23:58:41 ehird err, usb for the power too? 23:58:42 :D 23:58:45 AnMaster: You can gang them together for more speed. :P 23:58:50 AnMaster: Hells yes! 23:58:56 would the wall outlet be the host then? 23:58:56 pikhq: Well, 1 gigabyte/sec is quite slow 23:59:02 It's not like I have that many things using USB connected to the computer at the same time 23:59:06 That's just 8mbit 23:59:06 since usb is based on host- 23:59:12 And I have several ports at the back 23:59:13 er 23:59:14 8gbit 23:59:33 infiniband 23:59:35 (spelling?) 23:59:35 wait 23:59:36 ignore me 23:59:40 PCIe x16 = 16 gigabytes/sec 23:59:43 ehird, infiniband! 23:59:47 so 128 gigabits 2009-07-06: 00:00:09 AnMaster: quad 12x infiniband is 96 gigabits 00:00:14 PCIe x16 is faster. 00:00:16 PCIe xA(g_64,g_64) 00:01:20 ehird, is that per direction or combined? 00:01:21 PCIe x16 could be faster though 00:01:30 1m4s to transfer a terabyte 00:01:34 AnMaster: it's the total speed 00:01:48 ehird, so it is half in either direction then? 00:01:54 Effective theoretical throughput in different configurations 00:01:57 so it's per direction. 00:02:01 okay 00:02:12 is it the same for infiniband? 00:02:19 this is infiniband 00:02:30 I meant for PCIe then 00:02:44 dunno. 00:03:01 that is highly relevant. if it was total combined it would be slower than infiband. 00:03:09 while if it was per direction it would be faster 00:03:33 infiniband is still slow — "For example, the NEC SX-9 provides 128 GB/s of low-latency interconnect bandwidth between each computing node, compared to the 96 Gbit/s of an InfiniBand 12X Quad Data Rate link.[original research?])" 00:03:39 that's 1024 gbit, beating all the others handily 00:03:59 ehird, btw, the crt of the TV downstairs has a slightly lower frequency, still high one though 00:04:20 heh 00:06:10 how silly that the Irish archlinux mirror is faster by orders of magnitudes than the Swedish ones 00:06:24 but then, heanet has always been a good mirror for me 00:06:40 ehird: Clearly we should have system buses faster than L1 cache. 00:06:47 ^Ccc-4.4.0-4-i686 15,6M 9,8K/s 00:16:58 [#################################################################------------------------------------------] 61% 00:06:53 vs. 00:06:55 gcc-4.4.0-4-i686 25,3M 1714,8K/s 00:00:15 [###########################################################################################################] 100% 00:07:25 pikhq: QUANTUM BUS 00:07:34 ↑ awesome idea in any interpretation 00:08:01 ehird, quantum school bus? 00:08:23 ↑ awesome idea in any interpretation 00:08:33 Quantum bus? 00:08:35 Mine can serve as that. 00:08:42 (that is, both the "many worlds" one, and the other one) 00:08:57 Quantum bus: because if we entangle passengers, we can fit more people on. 00:09:08 Quantum bus: Using qubits to deliver infinite gigabytes/sec. 00:09:49 Quantum bus: Don't look at it. 00:09:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:09:56 Quantum bus: quantising passengers into individual quantums so quantum mechanics applies. 00:10:36 Quantum bus: We just put the bus in a superposition of at the starting point and at the destination, then someone looks at it from the starting point. Repeat until it ends up in the destination. 00:12:14 Quantum bus: We check to see if the bus has spontaneously leaped to the destination. If not, we destroy the universe. 00:12:34 that works given quantum immortality :) 00:12:46 well okay also many worlds but that's obvious 00:12:52 and quantum immortality depends on MWI 00:13:33 quantum immortality is stupid anyway. 00:13:44 if it's true, we never sleep :) 00:15:03 nfs rocks 00:15:25 no it doesn't 00:15:51 ehird, got a better suggestion for what it is meant for? That is, for accessing remote files across a protected network 00:16:02 Nope. scp? 00:16:03 stuff like accessing music files on your file server 00:16:06 and playing 00:16:11 without copying to local 00:16:13 ehird, fail 00:16:17 THen nope. 00:16:26 But nfs has all the problems of rpc, and is crufty. 00:16:31 ehird, then nfs rocks compared to the alternatives. 00:16:40 I guess you would use cifs (samba) 00:16:50 I don't give a shit. Plenty of things fit said criteria and are still crap. 00:17:05 ehird, nfs is the best one though. And it works. 00:17:10 Saying "oh, it's great because it exists!" is a very stupid thing to say. 00:17:12 with no major issues 00:17:18 ehird, ^ 00:17:25 I didn't say "because it exists" 00:17:26 AnMaster: plan 9 removes the cruft but keeps the fundamental issues. 00:17:30 nevertheless, it is therefore fundamentally better. 00:17:35 So, your statement is false. 00:17:40 it is great, because it works and is quite simple to get working 00:17:45 which can't be said for samba 00:18:33 ehird, does linux and freebsd support it? IIRC Linux kernel config has some experimental "Plan9 resourcesharing fs" thingy or such 00:18:40 don't remember the details 00:18:55 but since the client is a freebsd machine 00:18:57 I don't really care or know, but it's just 9P, and there are Linux implementation of 9P. 00:19:03 Probably BSD too. 00:19:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P 00:19:19 A kernel client driver for Linux is part of the v9fs project 00:19:25 v9fs - u9fs: 9P implementation for Unix-like operating systems 00:19:37 It's a loadable Linux module. 00:19:39 $ mount -t 9p 10.10.1.2 /mnt/9 00:19:39 $ mount -t 9p `namespace`/acme /mnt/9 -o trans=unix,uname=$USER 00:19:59 AnMaster: v9fs does bsd too it seems 00:20:08 http://swik.net/v9fs 00:20:12 Creepy logo. 00:20:24 OK, nothing FreeBSDy there 00:20:28 Documentation can be found in the Linux kernel source under Documentation/filesystems/9p.txt with a snapshot captured here 00:20:32 AnMaster: so good news: it's in Linux mainline. 00:20:37 Creepy logo. <-- so true 00:20:47 ehird, yes, doesn't help me when I use various other OS 00:20:52 I'm looking. 00:21:18 AnMaster: http://9p.cat-v.org/implementations 00:21:23 ehird, I use other *BSD too a lot. Only reason I avoid OpenSolaris is the license :P 00:21:36 9puffs9p2000ClientCNetBSDBSDUserspace file system driver implemented on top of puffs. 00:21:40 (this doesn't imply OpenSolaris is a subset of *BSD) 00:21:54 puffs looks netbsd-only though. 00:22:08 ehird, never heard of puffs, but then netbsd is the bsd I use least 00:22:15 AnMaster: great success — 00:22:16 http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man4/9pfuse.html 00:22:34 Make sure you have FUSE, install Plan 9 from User Space. 00:22:41 (Don't use your package manager; it shits all over the namespace.) 00:22:55 (So putting it in /usr is very unwise.) 00:23:13 ehird, I would highly doubt freebsd would put anything from ports in /usr 00:23:18 /usr/local yes, but not /usr 00:23:21 Whatever :P 00:23:28 You need /opt/plan9 for sanity, really 00:23:40 //usr is for distro stuff (as in base system) /usr/local for stuff from ports 00:23:42 err 00:23:43 fail 00:23:45 /usr is for distro stuff (as in base system) /usr/local for stuff from ports 00:23:47 better 00:23:53 ehird, I'm well aware 00:23:56 AnMaster: As for the file server, what OS does it run? You could run it on Plan 9, which would be fun, but I think there's servers for Linux/BSD. 00:24:19 AnMaster: http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man4/9pserve.html 00:24:20 ehird, the file server runs OpenBSD in this case. 00:24:20 Whaddya know. 00:24:27 but I run on linux too 00:24:30 and freebsd 00:24:39 but in this specific case: openbsd 00:24:45 That doesn't handle mounting an actual real filesystem though. 00:24:53 hm? 00:25:00 AnMaster: The link I made 00:25:01 ehird, a real file system is all I care about sharing 00:25:05 Yes 00:25:06 I'm lookin 00:25:06 g 00:25:12 It's just that 9P is a very abstract protocol 00:25:23 I have no interest in sharing /proc, nice as it may be, it isn't my goal in this case 00:25:25 :) 00:25:41 a lot of 9P shared stuff is things that simply don't exist in / 00:25:42 ehird, == a PITA 00:25:48 AnMaster: nope 00:25:51 9p is very simple 00:25:58 and sharing a real fs is trivial on Plan 9 00:26:25 ehird, that is my general experience with "very abstract and flexible" == hard to use in practise 00:26:33 then you have never used plan 9 00:26:41 but meh, maybe someone managed to combine those two attributes 00:26:44 libixp9p2000Client ServerCAll Unix variantsMITOriginally as part of the wmii project. 00:26:57 http://repo.cat-v.org/libixp/ 00:27:00 ehird, good examples: ALSA, OpenAL. 00:27:09 not sure what "libixp lacks lib9p's file trees." means, but it may be a quick-and-easy way to serve 'er up 00:27:11 that is "bad examples" 00:27:18 AnMaster: scheme. plan 9. 00:27:29 ehird, fair enough 00:27:41 but I think there are more cases of getting it wrong than right. 00:27:48 "[Systems] should be designed not by piling feature on top of feature, but by removing the weaknesses and restrictions that make additional features appear necessary." 00:28:10 — Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme, s/Programming languages/Systems/. 00:28:39 ehird, and this will let me do: sudo mount /mnt/phoenix 00:28:41 AnMaster: 00:28:41 6 /* This is a simple 9P file server which serves a normal filesystem 00:28:43 7 * hierarchy. While some of the code is from wmii, the server is by 00:28:44 vlc /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol1/track02.flac 00:28:45 8 * Ron. 00:28:47 9 * 00:28:49 so libixp is definitely what you want 00:28:51 AnMaster: yes 00:29:06 AnMaster: mounting will be: 00:29:18 AnMaster: sudo mount ADDRESS /mnt/phoenix 00:29:18 ehird, must go in /etc/fstab 00:29:23 s/mount/9pfuse/ 00:29:25 AnMaster: that's a FUSE thing 00:29:27 it's just a FUSE filesystem 00:29:33 yaknnow? 00:29:38 I think you have to put it in an init script with fuse 00:29:42 ehird, haven't used FUSE for ages. 00:30:02 ehird, also init script won't work since the systems aren't always up 00:30:11 so I mount it after I booted the computer in question 00:30:17 alias mountphoenix? 00:30:18 so I have a noauto line in /etc/fstab :P 00:30:35 ehird, why wouldn't fstab work? 00:30:37 exactly 00:30:40 http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fuse/index.php?title=FAQ#Is_it_possible_to_mount_a_fuse_filesystem_from_fstab.3F 00:30:45 Guess you can now 00:30:55 The mounting is performed by the /sbin/mount.fuse helper script. In this example the FUSE-linked binary must be called sshfs and must reside somewhere in $PATH. 00:31:03 AnMaster: You'll just have to figure out how to call 9pfuse(1) with it 00:31:10 *(4) 00:31:32 ehird, anything that can be in /proc/mounts can in general be copied to /etc/fstab + some minor changes and made to work 00:31:33 :P 00:31:38 Welp, do that then 00:32:03 10 * Note: I added an ifdef for Linux vs. BSD for the mount call, so 00:32:03 11 * this compiles on BSD, but it won't actually run. It should, 00:32:05 12 * ideally, have the option of not mounting the FS. 00:32:07 Hmm. 00:32:09 ehird example: 00:32:11 phoenix:/home/anmaster /mnt/phoenix nfs rw,vers=3,rsize=65536,wsize=65536,namlen=255,soft,nointr,proto=tcp,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,mountaddr=192.168.0.191,mountvers=3,mountproto=tcp,addr=192.168.0.191 0 0 00:32:12 Might need to patch ixpsrv.c, then 00:32:12 turns into 00:32:17 phoenix:/home/anmaster /mnt/phoenix nfs rw,nfsvers=3,soft,noauto 0 0 00:32:27 cutting out the useless defaults 00:32:35 and adding noauto 00:32:40 hmm 00:32:53 libixp might not be th ebest choice 00:32:55 ehird, mount --bind in fstab? certainly possible. 00:32:55 due to linuxness 00:33:07 ehird, this was phoenix mounted on linux btw 00:33:17 but it is mounted on several *bsd too atm 00:33:30 where I actually have the speakers connected 00:33:46 (there is a reason... believe me) 00:33:54 (it's called "cable length and placement" 00:33:55 ) 00:34:01 get some cable extenders? 00:34:20 ehird, I already had a computer near where I needed 00:34:21 so why 00:34:27 this works well enough 00:34:29 You brought it up. 00:34:43 that doesn't imply "I think it is bad" 00:34:51 just "this may seem odd to you, but there is a good reason" 00:35:24 ehird, a bind mount under *linux looks like: /foo/real /bar/mounted/here none rw,bind 0 0 00:35:32 k 00:35:33 "none" is the key word there 00:35:46 ehird, on freebsd you use "nullfs" iirc 00:36:02 this other filesystem, incidentally, IS connected via ethernet right? 00:36:21 ehird, via null modem cable! duh 00:36:22 ... 00:36:29 i mean, not wirelessly 00:36:40 my main objection to networked filesystems is over the internet; fast operations — which is basically anything apart from things involving large data, on a harddrive — suddenly take up to seconds 00:36:42 ehird, gbit ethernet between bsd-bsd. But wireless to the linux 00:36:46 leaky abstraction, just like RPC 00:37:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:37:05 ehird, well depends on *which* linu 00:37:07 linux* 00:37:08 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:37:27 "OpenBitTorrent is a bittorrent tracker free for anyone to use. You don't need to register, upload or index a torrent anywhere, all you have to do is to include the OpenBitTorrent tracker URL in your torrent." 00:37:28 Shiny. 00:38:11 ehird, anyway, does 9P fail over wlan or something? 00:38:14 or why do you wonder? 00:38:19 00:36 ehird: my main objection to networked filesystems is over the internet; fast operations — which is basically anything apart from things involving large data, on a harddrive — suddenly take up to seconds 00:38:22 (though over slow wireless counts too) 00:38:24 00:36 ehird: leaky abstraction, just like RPC 00:38:27 hm 00:38:48 ehird, got a better abstraction that does basically the same thing? ;P 00:38:57 Mu 00:39:04 AnMaster: well, for controlling music over the internet... 00:39:04 fair enough 00:39:06 music player daemon 00:39:19 networked music library/player with a one-server, many-client architecture 00:39:22 ehird, I mean, access various large files as if it was a local file system 00:39:29 right: mu 00:39:34 I was giving for a specific case 00:39:48 although of course that limits you to one track since one server, one output 00:39:57 but that's unlikely to be a limitation for one person 00:40:02 ehird, I often compile over nfs, and one computer even use nfs for /, I'm experimenting with thin clients 00:40:10 nfs for /? 00:40:11 ugh 00:40:23 ehird, that is the classical way for thin clients 00:40:29 PXE booting and nfs for / 00:40:39 ehird, never tried it? ;P 00:40:53 00:37 ehird: "OpenBitTorrent is a bittorrent tracker free for anyone to use. You don't need to register, upload or index a torrent anywhere, all you have to do is to include the OpenBitTorrent tracker URL in your torrent." 00:40:55 00:37 ehird: Shiny. 00:40:57 ↑ Update: for values of shiny equal to "same ip as the pirate bay" 00:41:03 AnMaster: i hate traditional thin clients 00:41:13 ehird, is that good or bad? 00:41:31 AnMaster: What do you mean? 00:41:38 " ↑ Update: for values of shiny equal to "same ip as the pirate bay"" 00:41:40 It's not actually a thing, they just remapped the IP to the pirate bay and put up a website saying it's something new 00:41:42 which makes no sense 00:41:52 huh 00:41:58 "GGF only bought the domain name and a copy of the TPB's database(without logs since they dont exist). As of right now the domain name hasn't been transferred. Also the TPB's infrastructure hasn't been sold at all." 00:41:59 hmm 00:42:20 hnuh 00:42:25 (n intentional) 00:42:57 "This crap hurts the industry. Where I work I've already seen people being made redundant. The more law suits to get this junk shut down the better. The Internet wasnt created to let people steal movies and music." 00:42:58 —reddit 00:43:00 Stab, stab, stab. 00:43:02 ehird, about thin clients.. I'm beginning to see why after experimenting with them :P 00:46:09 ehird, anyway checking out 9P is something I will do in the future. But too much kernel rebuilding on both *bsd and linux required to do this atm, will enable the options the next time I recompile the kernels though 00:46:27 AnMaster: there's no rebuilding required 00:46:28 just FUSE 00:46:38 ehird, the 9P stuff in the linux kernel? 00:46:51 ehird, there is a damn kernel option for it. 00:46:59 There's also Plan 9 from Userspace. 00:47:00 my advise didn't include that, though 00:47:04 my advise was cross-platform, too 00:47:08 pikhq: no shit 00:47:10 we've just discussed using it 00:47:13 p9fuse 00:47:27 *fuse9p, *9pfuse, I dunno 00:47:27 ehird, so you recommend that on all OSes? 00:47:36 ehird, what is your personal experience with it? 00:47:46 AnMaster: without any further evidence, yes, I would recommend it. and the same of that as google's. 00:47:53 The FUSE API *is* implemented on all major OSes but Windows... 00:47:54 heh 00:48:05 (and some minor ones; HURD, for example, has an implementation) 00:48:19 pikhq, I would like to see one for PC-DOS 00:48:22 (not MS-DOS) 00:49:05 Impossible. 00:49:17 pikhq: no it's not. loadlin! 00:50:21 what was that about TPB and this tracker? 00:50:30 pikhq, why impossible? 00:50:34 you could do it as a TSR 00:50:38 remember those? :D 00:50:54 The FUSE API assumes a full-on process. 00:51:15 pikhq, meh... I'm sure you could adapt it in some mad way using TSRs 00:51:36 just implement a scheduler in the fuse program 00:51:40 and use it to run the other programs 00:51:47 hehe 01:04:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:08:00 transhumanist anticipation of the singularity is comparable to Christian anticipation of the second coming of Jesus Christ 01:08:00 [...] 01:08:02 A movement which views its ultimate purpose as bringing enlightenment to the universe sets itself up in direct opposition to God’s own purpose … their ambition — like Satan’s — will one day lead to an outright physical confrontation with God Himself. It’s a battle that God will win. 01:08:06 LAWL 01:09:04 ehird, where was that from? 01:09:18 Clearly what will actually happen is that the singularity will become manifest in the form of Jesus Christ. :P 01:09:27 The wonderful fundie site Rapture Ready: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/gillette/transhuman.html 01:09:50 (tl;dr of the site's prerogative: "The rapture will happen in 1999. Uh. 2003. Uh. 2007. Uh. 2012." 01:09:58 ) 01:10:04 ... 2012. Really. 01:10:09 pikhq: Numbers made up. 01:10:17 How ignorant psuedo-Mayan of them. 01:11:00 psuedo-Mayan? Why Mayan in specific? 01:11:06 AnMaster: google 2012 01:11:23 Isn't Maya a rather good (but expensive) 3D editor iirc? ~ 01:11:32 AnMaster: Mayan calender sets 2012 as the end of the current epoch. 01:11:38 ahaha 01:11:59 Some think that this means that the Mayans predicted the end of the world on 2012. 01:12:06 http://ldopa.net/2006/06/04/cory-doctorow-visits-a-radio-shack/ ← This is hilarious 01:12:23 When in fact it's merely the end of the current calender epoch; it will just cycle over the day after the winter solstice. 01:14:50 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:15:07 [[Eliezer Yudkowsky (pronounced “Frankensteen”)]] 01:15:53 font fail..? 01:15:59 Eh? 01:16:37 not sure yet 01:17:06 "font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" hm 01:17:16 What about it? 01:17:27 yet why is … turned into a box in firefox 01:17:41 because your mom is a fly. 01:17:46 works in konqueror 3.5 though 01:17:48 :D 01:19:21 pikhq: you're studying mathematics, right? a guy on reddit is claiming that "the length of a set is the number of elements it has" is an unusual definition 01:19:27 and arguing that a set can have infinite items but finite length 01:19:29 wtf is he on? 01:21:31 ehird, even to me, who isn't great at math, that sounds very odd 01:21:40 welp, byebye all 01:21:45 ehird, hm? 01:21:46 TURN INTO A DOOM OF THE PIG 01:21:49 → 01:22:05 ehird, this sounds slightly less sane than "nullity" 01:22:38 ehird: Infinite items but finite length? 01:23:03 I wonder what sort of screwy axiomatic system he's using, and how much LSD was involved. 02:48:53 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 02:51:11 * Sgeo needs to figure out how to write a resume 03:10:00 ehird: he must be talking about intervals. 03:10:26 so he's simply saying length instead of measure 03:14:30 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:27:37 What JS toolkit is most used by companies? 03:33:23 http://verrahrubicon.free.fr/SPIDER%20WEB.png 03:33:31 SPIDER ON THE WEB 03:38:55 What's the difference between jQuery and dojo? 03:39:25 Dojo is for karat 03:40:07 * Sgeo facepalms 03:42:50 -!- Pthingg has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:06:38 -!- immibis has joined. 04:18:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:49:21 -!- zid has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:55:40 -!- zid has joined. 05:36:34 -!- Associat0r has joined. 06:36:30 * Warrigal reads about karate. 06:38:04 * Warrigal reads about BCM theory. 06:40:25 BCM? 06:42:38 BCM stands for Bienenstock, Cooper and Munro. 06:42:44 Very elucidating, I'm sure. 06:42:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCM_theory 06:43:16 For all I know it could be Bowel and Cock Movement 06:44:37 The strangest bodily fluid ever observed. 06:49:29 -!- oklodok has joined. 06:49:35 Finland! 06:50:05 -!- oklodok has quit (Client Quit). 06:50:16 -!- oklodok has joined. 06:50:37 may i interest you all in a sevenfold glio 06:53:14 No! Finland! 06:53:35 oh that may be. 06:55:24 pikhq are you an mit student, or was your praise that of a university theoretician 06:55:44 Or seven glia, if you don't have any Finland on you. 06:56:00 what? 06:56:44 you're going to have to explain dat 06:57:11 Does "sevenfold glio" have an explanation? 06:57:24 eh 06:57:27 it's plain english 06:59:19 o 06:59:19 o 06:59:19 o 06:59:23 okokokokokokokoko 06:59:23 o 06:59:24 o 06:59:24 o 06:59:26 okokokokokokoko 06:59:27 o 06:59:29 o 06:59:31 o 06:59:33 okokokokokoko 06:59:35 oko 06:59:37 o 06:59:39 o 07:01:11 i've been singing glioing in the fog / glioing in the fogger / the fogger in the fol all week 07:01:22 Wiktionary doesn't even have an entry for "glio". 07:01:56 Therefore, it's not plain English. 07:02:03 it's a prefix for all that is gluey afaik 07:02:23 i use is as a synonym for oko. 07:02:25 *it 07:02:53 and since when is wiktionary a dictionary 07:02:57 is it decent nowadays? 07:06:38 well aren't you being asynchronous 07:09:06 i have blow air out of my eye 07:09:12 *can blow 07:10:55 oklodok! 07:10:56 hey. 07:11:17 Yes. 07:11:25 hey aug 07:11:32 soup, love 07:11:35 awg the dawg 07:11:42 nuu :( 07:11:45 Though the English Wiktionary contains more Spanish words than the Spanish Wiktionary, if I'm not mistaken. Which is, you know. 07:13:15 i definitely don't know 07:13:18 this website seems to be kind of backwards 07:13:30 come from linkns? 07:13:31 perhaps written by someone who's used to programming in befunge or something 07:13:32 *links 07:13:41 almost, man 07:13:44 it has a list of things 07:13:50 and they're in reverse order 07:13:51 sound aweful 07:13:58 (sic) 07:14:00 not just numerically 07:14:04 but in terms of content 07:14:09 cool. 07:14:13 the first one replies to whats said in the second 07:14:33 not only that, but instead of #1 and #2 it says 1# and 2# 07:14:38 :D 07:16:00 i had a panic induced high the other day 07:16:09 * Warrigal ponders come-from links. 07:16:10 i like saying random things. 07:16:17 Hey, me too! 07:16:28 which one 07:16:29 warble 07:16:41 The random things one. 07:16:50 Here, I'll give you a stupid piece of BNF. 07:17:08 * oklodok waits for augur to show he's in charge 07:17:18 you know, because of the bnf thing 07:17:25 not the gay thing 07:17:29 what 07:17:32 why would that? 07:17:52 well isn't that related to linguistics 07:18:02 uh 07:18:06 its related to formal grammars? 07:18:24 am i confusing the acronym 07:18:36 no 07:18:38 i thought it was. 07:18:58 it is, but only by virtue of being related to formal grammar 07:19:07 ::= {"A" | "B" } ( {} | {} | epsilon}; ::= "A" | "B" ; ::= "B" | "A" 07:19:22 anyway, may have been entirely my fault, but you definitely *did* show you're in charge. 07:19:23 so 07:19:24 i win 07:19:26 by losing. 07:19:33 take that bitch 07:19:45 That piece of BNF is stupid because it's a really long way of writing ::= {"A" | "B"}. 07:20:06 Also, s/};/);/ 07:20:25 uh 07:20:34 what doe the {}s mean? 07:20:44 like regex * 07:20:57 ok, well 07:21:00 then like 07:21:13 it is not a way of writing ::= ("A" | "B") 07:21:28 but ir might be of writing ::= {"A"|"B"} 07:22:03 how's that not showing you're in charge 07:22:38 oh dear, her sister betrayed her! 07:22:59 wat 07:23:01 | is totally a space-requiring operator. 07:23:22 ur moms a space requiring operator 07:23:43 i think you, augur, are taking me a bit too literally today. 07:24:01 wot 07:24:10 you're right 07:24:13 well you take my random, and say what 07:24:13 im taking you too seriously 07:24:17 and not just taking you 07:24:22 * augur takes oklodok 07:24:22 ah 07:24:32 i see 07:24:51 I SEE WHAT'S GOING ON 07:25:00 so anyone read dostojevski's idiot 07:25:35 turns out everyone in the 19th century was high 24/7. 07:27:19 Misread "anyone read that dostojevski idiot", thought "a bit harsh". 07:27:59 he's either an idiot of a genius, that much i know 07:28:02 *or 07:28:10 why, why do all my typos mean something 07:29:03 fizzie: "that dostojevski idiot" does not mean dostojevski was an idiot. 07:29:28 yeah you'd need to reverse it or it's another genetive 07:29:35 or what are you implying 07:29:56 anyway, augur: ur moms a space requiring operator <<< how did you come up with this 07:29:57 Yes, I guess it should be "that idiot dostojevski" then. Anyway, that's the meaning I parsed out of it. 07:30:22 you dont parse meanings you parse structures! :| 07:30:41 all this charge is charring my hair 07:30:53 all this char is charging my hair 07:31:10 it's not the chars themselves that charge, it's the structures 07:31:14 they form 07:31:29 * augur forms a structure with oklopol 07:32:07 Whoa, purely-intuitivited (or maybe I remembered it from somewhere) google search style of "that * idiot" (in quotes) actually did what I wanted, which was to find that+[any-word-or-two]+idiot. 07:32:39 hurrah! 07:32:42 ok im off to read 07:32:48 Wait, really? 07:33:02 yes i know its shocking but i do read. 07:33:11 oh read 07:33:15 i thought you said sleep 07:33:16 or bed 07:33:25 its a common mistake 07:33:30 read and sleep look a lot alike 07:33:36 if you close your eyes, anyway. 07:33:54 especially as i read the meaning behind sleep and bed, neither word in particular. 07:34:09 hmm 07:34:16 right, i probably just didn't read the last word 07:34:23 what do you read 07:35:21 books, usually. 07:35:31 Argument Realization, Chapter 4 - Three conceptualizations of events 07:35:32 words? 07:35:34 but are you reading that dostojevski idiot 07:35:38 sometimes words 07:35:54 augur: what does that mean? 07:36:27 it means he sometimes reads words 07:36:54 or you can just go, it's probably too complicated for my fantastically less cleve brain. 07:37:01 the book is about how arguments to verbs are denoted 07:37:16 in terms of their position relative to the verbs, and their phrasal type 07:37:52 makes more sense than the meaning i *parsed* at first, that is, "argument realization" as in "how to start a fight". 07:37:56 or like row 07:38:01 Oklodok's fantastically cleaved brain. 07:38:14 huh? 07:38:24 you said "less cleve" 07:38:26 why would you take my awesome pun and turn it into that. 07:38:33 so. 07:38:36 yeah. 07:38:40 its an interesting book 07:38:44 and im off to read it now. 07:38:47 kthxbai 07:38:54 byes 07:40:55 what was 'augur: you said "less cleve"' referring to 07:41:14 i was replying to your huh 07:41:18 The little girl says to her father, "What did you bring that book that I did not want to be read to out of about Down Under up for?" 07:41:28 but 07:41:34 was it an explanation of fizzie's 07:41:47 warrigal: yes. 07:41:56 Change that sentence so that each preposition precedes the thing it prepositions. 07:42:03 the bane of the english teacher who things you cant end a sentence with a preposition 07:42:21 cool, your typo meant too. 07:42:36 warrigal, you can remove all but one of the sentence final prepositions 07:43:09 Down Under doesnt count, since its a proper noun, so we can ignore it 07:43:25 more importantly, because we want to actually have a tricky problem, we remove the whole "about Down Under" phrase 07:43:39 so we're actually left with five prepositions in a row 07:44:07 For what did you bring up that book out of which I did not want to be read to 07:44:30 The little girl says to her father, "For what did you bring up that book about Down Under out of which I did not want to be read to?" 07:44:34 Pretty much a match. 07:44:48 The "up" seems to be acting as an adjective. 07:44:56 no 07:44:59 its a resultative. 07:45:08 Typo. s/adjective/adverb/ 07:45:21 "To be read to" is rather pathological, isn't it. 07:45:22 no. even then. 07:45:28 its not a syntactic adverb 07:45:35 its an adverbial preposition, however. 07:45:48 or probably more accurately, a preposition that is an argument to the verb. 07:46:08 also, "to be read to" is not pathological at all 07:46:16 its a propositional passive. 07:46:19 why would it be pathological 07:46:25 in what sense 07:46:28 i don't get 07:46:47 It's pathological in that you can't make the "to" precede its prepositionee. 07:47:14 And by "prepositionee", I mean "complement". 07:47:16 true, but thats not pathological. 07:48:21 It's pathological for people who want to do that. 07:48:42 everyone does that 07:48:49 some just refuse to admit it. 07:49:20 Everyone makes prepositions precede their prepositionees? 07:49:46 no, everyone strands their prepositions 07:49:49 (in english) 07:51:22 i wish i had something to drink to 07:51:34 drink to churchill! 07:51:54 i'm so going to drink up to it 07:56:37 you go drink on up to it, oklodok 07:57:14 You're going to be up your churchill in drinks. 07:57:25 i'm not sure i can drink up to it. 07:57:27 better than being up to your drinks in churchill! 07:58:04 Oh, I missed the "to" too. 07:58:15 i didnt notice at all. 07:58:29 don't they mean a different thing 07:58:36 yes 07:58:43 up your churchill being in churchill's ass 07:58:50 maybe! 07:58:56 that's how i read it 07:59:00 * augur bes up my oklodok? 07:59:23 be is actually somewhat of an irregular verb. 07:59:29 SOMEWHAT? 07:59:40 yeah, it's occasionatively irregular, i'd say. 07:59:42 to be, i am, you are, he/she/it is, we/you/they are 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:08 i was, you were, he/she/it/was, we/you/they were 08:00:40 yeah and those are only the beginning 08:02:02 BE ME UP, BEFORE YOU GO GO 08:02:31 what 08:02:42 i'm insane 08:02:42 What was the original? "Beam me up before you go-go?" 08:02:54 no 08:02:55 i was just thinking i've definitely heard that somewhere 08:02:57 but wake 08:02:57 the original is wake me up. 08:03:04 don't you listen do disco 08:03:08 ... 08:03:09 *to 08:03:23 just one fucking finger typo, and i'd be happy 08:03:27 but nooooo 08:03:46 also, its not disco 08:03:48 its pop. 08:03:49 kthxbye 08:04:00 then i've been lied to 08:04:13 you suck at going 08:04:15 just like me 08:04:20 that's sad 08:04:33 Misread "just lick me". 08:04:34 :| 08:04:41 * augur licks oklodok 08:04:52 yeah stop sucking and start licking 08:05:00 oops, i mustve misread it too! D: 08:05:40 i should go too, to the shoppe, to buy 08:05:52 i do have beer here, but i'm not sure i'm man enough 08:06:27 so i saw this three-year-old 08:06:36 and i tried to ask him if he knew group theory 08:06:38 and no 08:06:39 he didn't 08:06:54 and wasn't even that interested in hearing 08:07:20 What a lossager. 08:07:26 just wanted to pour more water in his flower soup 08:07:37 and list spanish words to me 08:08:59 although he just listed three 08:09:19 he wasn't interested in hearing the italian translations 08:09:28 which is even lossagerer 08:09:38 Fun generalization: instead of a subject pronoun followed by a copula, use a possessive pronoun. 08:10:41 "My not alone, and your not alone either. Our all in this together. That's why we can defeat them; their all scattered about. His in one place, her in another." 08:11:19 stupid of that 08:11:51 guess that was a bit too obvious. 08:20:16 "if i didn't know better, i'd think you actually wanted the man to have a nervous breakdown" "then maybe you don't know better, because i care for your father too" 08:20:25 (the man = father) 08:21:20 if i didn't know better, i'd think that made no sense. 08:21:43 Fortunately you know butter. 08:21:55 then again the incredible genius got the beginning of the fibonacci sequence wrong, so i guess i might be right. 08:21:56 In the biblical sense, I guess. 08:22:14 i love tv shows that have math/cs in them 08:22:29 There are such? 08:22:35 We don't have a televisor. 08:22:36 well definitely not 08:22:44 but i mean shows that try to have them 08:23:34 I've heard of something called numb3rs, but no details. 08:23:55 if it's on tv, it's probably done wrong. 08:24:18 people aren't interested in anything interesting 08:24:22 unless it's psychology 08:25:21 but, i'll download that if it's a show 08:25:25 I like the title of this one: http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/MeasuringTheSpeedOfLightWithMarshmallows/ 08:26:27 my connection is very slow, i'm downloading a lot of... puppies, because i finally have a stable flow of internet here. 08:26:54 can't get that open at all it seems 08:27:38 The puppies are probably eating the marshmallows, then. 08:28:31 i'm overdosing on life atm 08:28:43 probably should drink the beer to calm down. 08:29:23 i mean i'm seriously contemplating running out without my clothes on 08:29:43 you know, to greet the trees 08:29:45 TREES 08:30:00 there's a reason they have leaves 08:30:21 i should put my clothes on 08:31:03 one of my university professors moved into the building 08:31:35 which is not very nice because i know him well enough that i have to greet him 08:31:53 You might rise some eyebrows (or maybe other things as well!) if you were to go greet him sans clothes. 08:31:54 and i'm afraid i'll start talking math to him 08:32:04 which would be very unprofessional of me. 08:32:34 It's lunch-sausage time now. 08:32:57 he's a mathematica fetishist, actually 08:33:15 so i probably couldn't petrify his pendulum 08:34:23 written like a 1000 page book about mathematica, but didn't know what GC is 08:35:06 anyway enjoy sawing your sages, i'll try that shoppe thing 08:36:26 what does QED stand for? 08:36:35 quantum electro dynamics 08:36:36 or 08:36:40 quod erat demonstrandum 08:37:44 augur speaks latin natively 08:38:05 i do. 08:39:10 i was trying to find the name of the imaginary country that'd speak latin, but wasn't sure what it'd be 08:39:22 He mostly speaks gay 08:39:22 The Holy See. 08:39:27 couldn't come up with a language that ends in "in" 08:39:38 Athabaskin 08:39:55 but one where the country is a simple suffix modification 08:40:11 which is not the case there 08:41:02 Latin is the language spoken by Lats. 08:41:12 Latand? 08:41:30 Latin is spoken by Latins in Latium. 08:41:49 Mandarin is spoken by mandarine 08:41:53 Italiïn. 08:43:19 Hawaiiïn. 08:43:43 Tok Pisin. 08:43:53 my friend knows tp 08:44:05 i mean 08:44:06 speaks 08:44:18 well. i guess that's too strong a word 08:44:21 something in between 08:44:34 Understands? 08:44:36 I think Latin and Tok Pisin are the only Wikipedias ending in in. 08:44:52 something like that. or occasionally obsesses over. 08:46:47 "# The Klingon language edition of the Wikipedia is no longer hosted by Wikimedia and is now hosted by Wikia as Klingon Wiki. There is more on the history of the Klingon Wikipedia." 08:46:49 Damn you! 08:47:31 "Among the problems was the existence of interwiki links from the main page and other articles, which some Wikipedians felt detracted from the scholarly appearance of the project." 08:47:43 Isn't an article on Obama in Klingon serious? 08:47:55 is it about assassinating him 08:48:13 I imagine such an article would refer to him as Admiral Obama 08:48:18 Or Warlord Obama 08:48:55 why 08:49:19 Because most of Klingon is derived from Star Trek so the vocabulary is famously rather limited 08:49:24 Especially for everyday things 08:49:44 DIvI' HoSghaj 'oH America yoSmey jIj'e' (United States of America). tInqu' yoSghomvam 'ej mIpqu'. 08:49:44 vaghmaH yoS ghaj. Washington 'oH monDaj'e'. motlh pa' DIvI' Hol jatlhlu'. DIS 1776 yoSmey jIj luchenmoHlu'ta'. George Washington ghaH che'wI' wa'DIch pong'e'. DaH Barack Obama ghaH che'wI' loSmaH loSDIch'e'. 08:50:11 i've just heard it's good for talking about killing, and nothing else. 08:50:28 Yeah 08:50:51 that's why the assassin joke was so hilarious 08:51:03 if you were wondering why you're dripping stomach fluids 08:51:03 What joke 08:51:12 well 08:51:12 mine 08:51:16 look closelier 08:51:20 Oh 08:51:51 explains a lot doesn't it 08:55:10 ! 08:55:15 seriously shoppe 08:55:16 -> 09:08:02 !c printf("%f %f", 1.0, 0.0); 09:08:05 1.000000 0.000000 09:08:13 !c printf("%f %f", 1.0f, 0.0f); 09:08:14 1.000000 0.000000 09:10:18 !c while(1){printf("f");} 09:10:24 No? 09:10:31 !c while(1){printf("f\n");} 09:10:33 f 09:10:57 Ahahah 09:11:03 The rest was sent in private session 09:11:08 Almost crashed my mIRC 09:12:25 Do you have to define variables with this bot? 09:12:35 Or are they dynamic or whatever the word is 09:12:56 !c a = 33; printf("%c",a); 09:12:57 Does not compile. 09:13:01 Noooo 09:13:10 !c int a; a = 33; printf("%c",a); 09:13:12 ! 09:13:15 !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(float),sizeof(double)); 09:13:16 4 8 09:13:26 this is for a discussion in #gcc btw 09:13:43 !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(1.0),sizeof(1.0f)); 09:13:44 8 4 09:13:57 !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(1.0),sizeof(1.0f+2.0f)); 09:13:58 8 4 09:14:30 !c void a(float b) {printf("%i",sizeof(b));} void main() {a(1.0f);} 09:14:33 !c int a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]="f"}a = 33; printf("%c",a); 09:14:34 Does not compile. 09:14:35 Oops 09:14:54 !c int a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a); 09:14:55 Does not compile. 09:15:03 declare i? 09:15:04 !c int[100] a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a); 09:15:04 Does not compile. 09:15:06 !c void a(float b) {printf("%i ",sizeof(b));} void main() {a(1.0f);} 09:15:08 Oh right 09:15:14 !c void a(float b) {printf("%i ",sizeof(b));} a(1.0f); 09:15:14 4 09:15:24 !c int a[100],i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a); 09:15:26 P 09:15:34 Wait 09:15:38 What am I doing 09:15:52 not a clue 09:16:07 Disregard this, I suck cocks 09:16:13 ? 09:16:24 !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} a[99]='\0'; printf("%s",a); 09:16:25 f 09:16:32 ... 09:16:38 !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",a); 09:16:39 f 09:16:45 !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",&a); 09:16:46 f 09:16:48 !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",*a); 09:16:49 ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7197 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 09:16:58 !c *(int*)NULL = 0; 09:16:59 ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7242 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 09:17:00 Declare a char instead of an int, maybe? 09:17:02 !c 1/0; 09:17:10 !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",*a); 09:17:11 ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7337 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 09:17:11 oh duh 09:17:17 !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",*a); 09:17:18 ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7377 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 09:17:25 !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a); 09:17:26 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 09:17:28 I use ints because I hate chars D: 09:17:30 !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a); 09:17:31 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 09:17:34 no, ints will not work 09:17:41 Actually, ints work 09:17:54 instead of 0x86,0x86,0x86 you get 0x86,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x86,0x00,0x00,0x00... 09:17:58 in memory 09:18:04 If you print an int as a %c, it will just be the ASCII char with that value 09:18:06 !c char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a); 09:18:07 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 09:18:10 yes 09:18:12 but not with %s 09:18:19 no idea 09:18:20 !c char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[1023] = '\0'; printf("%s",a); 09:18:21 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 09:18:36 !c int k;for(k=0;k<1000;k++){char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[1023] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);} 09:18:41 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 09:19:55 !c printf("\nJOIN #gcc\n"); 09:20:07 damn, didn't work 09:20:35 !c printf("\\JOIN #gcc"); 09:20:36 \JOIN #gcc 09:20:41 Noooo 09:20:56 !c gets(NULL); 09:21:01 ... 09:21:07 !c printf("Hi!"); 09:21:08 Hi! 09:21:20 !c printf("Hello, world!"); 09:21:21 Hello, world! 09:21:49 !c printf("!swedish Derp derp I am swedish C"); 09:21:50 !swedish Derp derp I am swedish C 09:21:57 No? 09:21:59 !swedish Derp derp I am swedish C 09:22:00 Derp derp I em svedeesh C 09:22:11 Oh, they're the same bot 09:22:16 yes... 09:22:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:22:21 What other bot as sveedeesh again? 09:22:32 fungot 09:22:33 Slereah: wow i wudnt of guessed. the pilot, co-pilot, engineer and navigator, maybe she'll be able to take off instead of land why the hell out when i saw this footage does show promise... it looks pre-rendered. i believe the cause of this 09:22:38 ^language 09:22:42 ^help 09:22:42 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 09:22:49 ^style 09:22:50 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* 09:22:55 fungot, hello 09:22:55 immibis: the only reason i'd watch the documentary on this 09:23:01 fungot is because? 09:23:01 immibis: we all know this sounds a lot was riding on this on snl. andy, jorma, akiva schaffer, and it shows exactly that in france 09:23:08 fungot in france what? 09:23:08 immibis: he's pretty amazing... and you didn't answer the question: how exactly can a ' go around 09:23:15 !c printf("fungot, want to gay out?"); 09:23:16 Slereah: wow that was a computer? look, now shes ok, farinelli... but i think senator clinton's management of the story of the company to fly 09:23:16 fungot, want to gay out? 09:23:19 fungot, i don't know how a ' can go around... 09:23:19 immibis: i'm a pussy by birth! i can't wait 09:23:22 ... 09:23:23 wtf 09:23:24 ... 09:23:35 Why won't the bots communicate :( 09:23:38 FIZZIE: Bug report. Fungot generates incomplete sentences. 09:23:43 probably set to ignore each other 09:23:47 want me to bring toboge? 09:23:48 !swedish fungot, want to gay out? 09:23:48 Slereah: as to how these were the people skills of a plane, knowing men, women and their children died as you always do--i've come to mine by consulting such sources as time changes to stop judging whats on the screen 09:23:48 foongut, vunt tu gey oooot? Bork Bork Bork! 09:23:59 foongut? lol 09:24:06 I'm afraid we have enough bots as it is 09:24:13 !c printf("_o_"); 09:24:13 | 09:24:13 /\ 09:24:14 _o_ 09:24:14 | 09:24:14 /| 09:24:33 ^ignore 09:24:34 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo) 09:24:39 That's fungot's current ignore-regexp. 09:24:40 fizzie: fuck you encul de tes morts de ta race de narvale putain de ta race de narvale putain de ta mere stizz would not pick up duke nukem trailer. 09:24:47 ^style 09:24:47 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* 09:25:52 The "when to stop a sentence" thing is a bit arbitrary and pessimal. 09:26:35 fungot, hello 09:26:35 immibis: the add about not wanting to go around it spose to be amazing 09:26:42 that just plain doesn't make sense 09:26:46 fungot, i don't understand you 09:26:46 immibis: i still love you nalts! your awesome!! 09:26:50 wtf? 09:26:56 fungot, who is nalts? 09:26:56 immibis: it's not a large turbojet aircraft gets slow enough it requires more power but the computer wouldn't provide power, but i loved it. if you don't even like basketball stalled and crashed 09:27:02 What does HackEgo do? 09:27:13 runs shell commands i think 09:27:18 `ls 09:27:19 asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.8417 09:27:27 `help 09:27:27 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 09:27:36 you can do one-parameter commands with `command argument goes here 09:27:47 or normal shell commands with `run command and arguments 09:27:50 `echo !swedish bork bork bork 09:27:51 !swedish bork bork bork 09:28:02 Why won't the robots be friends :( 09:28:13 `echo fungot 09:28:14 Slereah: wow hes gay?" i believe you still you don't, etc. 09:28:14 fungot 09:28:54 `echo `echo a 09:28:55 `echo a 09:29:19 !c printf("`echo _o_"); 09:29:19 | 09:29:19 /'\ 09:29:20 `echo _o_ 09:29:20 | 09:29:21 /| 09:29:21 _o_ 09:29:32 C'mon myndzi 09:29:35 MAKE HIM DANCE 09:29:54 !c printf("`echo _o_"); 09:29:54 | 09:29:54 >\ 09:29:55 `echo _o_ 09:29:55 | 09:29:55 /< 09:29:55 _o_ 09:29:59 :( 09:35:12 flood protection 09:35:43 How lame 09:35:55 /o\ 09:35:56 | 09:35:56 >\ 09:36:05 what kind of person is /o\??? 09:36:05 | 09:36:05 /< 09:36:13 he is afraid 09:36:14 One with floppy ears. 09:36:18 Putting his arms on his head 09:36:44 _o_ _o/ _o\ \o\ \o/ \o_ /o/ /o_ /o\ 09:36:45 | | | | | | | | | 09:36:45 /\ >\ >\ /| >\ /< /| >\ /| 09:36:54 |o| 09:36:54 | 09:36:54 /< 09:37:11 I AM LOL MAN 09:38:44 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 09:38:52 Hewwo from Italia! 09:39:15 Are you... 09:39:20 Are you the Italian VIPPER? 09:39:33 ... 09:40:56 ??? 09:41:01 -!- toBogE has joined. 09:42:55 !persist factoid load 09:43:10 !help 09:43:10 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 09:43:10 All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex 09:43:12 !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum 09:43:14 !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix 09:43:16 !userlist 09:43:46 !help setprefix 09:43:46 Sorry, I have no help for setprefix! 09:43:46 All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex 09:43:48 !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum 09:43:50 !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix 09:43:52 !userlist 09:44:02 !bf_txtgen !c printf("`echo _o_"); 09:44:03 | 09:44:03 /< 09:44:11 205 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.<-.>+++++++++++++.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<++++++++.------.>------.>++.<+++.>+++.+++++++.<<--.>----.>.<.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.>>>-. [621] 09:44:30 !bf +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.<-.>+++++++++++++.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<++++++++.------.>------.>++.<+++.>+++.+++++++.<<--.>----.>.<.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.>>>-. 09:44:30 !c printf("`echo _o_"); 09:44:30 !c printf("`echo _o_"); 09:44:30 | 09:44:31 /`\ 09:44:31 | 09:44:31 /| 09:44:31 `echo _o_ 09:44:32 _o_ 09:44:43 :D 09:44:58 Is toBogE still old EgoBot or new EgoBot? 09:45:13 my bot from a while ago 09:45:34 completely unrelated except for the name 09:45:41 !setprefix C@ 09:45:44 @help 09:45:44 All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex 09:45:46 !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum 09:45:48 !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix 09:45:50 !userlist 09:46:24 !bf_txtgen !c printf("`echo _o_ fungot"); 09:46:24 | 09:46:24 Slereah: ht tp jeanclaudeboetsch. free. fr/ level of cod4 while on the screen!!! to cap it all, all of that plane 09:46:24 >\ 09:46:27 288 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++.>+.<-.>>.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<<++++++++.------.<--.>>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<--.<-.>>.<<.>.>>.<++++++.>++++++++.-------.++++++++.<-.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------. [501] 09:46:41 !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++.>+.<-.>>.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<<++++++++.------.<--.>>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<--.<-.>>.<<.>.>>.<++++++.>++++++++.-------.++++++++.<-.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------. 09:46:41 !c printf("`echo _o_ fungot"); 09:46:42 | 09:46:42 >\ 09:46:54 Oh, still ignoring it. 09:47:12 Why can't robots love 09:48:17 !regex repeat _o_ replace _o_ 09:48:18 | | 09:48:18 |\ /'\ 09:48:22 _o_ 09:48:23 | 09:48:23 /| 09:48:33 !delregex repeat 09:48:46 !regex stuff stuff replace other stuff 09:48:47 stuff 09:48:50 !delregex stuff 09:49:29 ?immibis 09:49:30 immibis is my creator. 09:49:33 ?tobobe 09:49:34 ?toboge 09:49:39 ?me 09:49:44 ?#esoteric 09:49:44 #esoteric is a channel on irc.freenode.net. The topic is 'Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Cong 09:50:01 !raw join #toboge 09:50:32 why didn't that do anything? o.o 09:50:37 !raw JOIN #toboge 09:50:42 !RAW JOIN #toboge 09:51:03 Didn't you just change the prefix? 09:51:23 oh duh 09:51:29 so that why its not doing anythin 09:51:31 g 09:51:35 @raw join #toboge 09:51:57 @regex repeat \o/ replace _o/ 09:51:57 | | 09:51:58 /< >\ 09:51:58 Cannot register regex 09:52:09 @regex repeat \\o/ replace _o/ 09:52:09 | | 09:52:09 |\ /< 09:52:12 \o/ 09:52:13 _o/ 09:52:13 | 09:52:13 >\ 09:52:13 | 09:52:14 /\ 09:52:21 ok that looked messed up 09:52:27 WHAT MUTANT IS THIS 09:52:27 @delregex repeat 09:52:57 !persist regex load 09:53:22 EXPRESSION 09:53:37 *slaps head* 09:53:42 @persist regex load 09:53:43 Cannot register regex 09:53:46 EXPRESSION 09:53:46 REPLACEMENT 09:53:48 Is that @raw available for anyone? 09:53:52 * immibis wonders why that was in there 09:53:55 yes... 09:54:00 * immibis waits for abuse 09:54:05 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:05 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:06 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:06 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:07 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:07 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:07 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:08 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:08 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:08 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:08 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:08 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:09 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:09 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:09 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:10 @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:10 -!- fungot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:54:11 ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^ 09:54:13 !ps 09:54:15 @ps 09:54:15 1 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 19) 09:54:34 lol is it meant to do that? 09:54:37 I was just thinking we're bound to have one loop sooner or later. 09:54:56 is it meant to quit i mean? 09:55:05 I ^c'd it. 09:55:16 try @kill 1 next time 09:55:27 and try it over and over until you get the right timing 09:55:28 possibly never 09:55:38 on second thought, your way's better 09:55:52 -!- fungot has joined. 09:56:00 @hehp 09:56:02 @help 09:56:02 All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex 09:56:04 !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum 09:56:06 !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix 09:56:08 !userlist 09:56:17 Now that we've gotten the loop out of the way, I did the boring thing and added "toBogE" to fungot's ignore-list. Sowwy. 09:56:17 fizzie: undefined variable ' nil'.) 09:56:20 @irp Please repeat this sentence unless it has been said more than once before. 09:56:53 that appears to make it join #irp, say the sentence and then part 09:57:02 er, not part 09:58:27 i found something called module_dollar_auction in the source... 09:58:34 !c printf("( ? ??)"); 09:58:35 ( ? ??) 09:58:38 Hm 09:59:03 !c printf("( ﾟ ヮﾟ)"); 09:59:04 ( ﾟ ヮﾟ) 09:59:08 oh man 09:59:10 look at the time 09:59:17 Rape time? 09:59:21 totally! 09:59:25 I have a dollar extra, but who will I give it to? 09:59:25 I know, I'll auction it off! 09:59:25 Everyone who wants to play, say ME! 09:59:25 You have 15 seconds to say ME! before the game starts 09:59:28 ME! 09:59:32 oh this thing 09:59:39 Ok, now you can bid by saying your bid on a line by itself. 09:59:40 $123 means 123 dollars. $1.23 means 123 cents. 123 means 123 cents. 1.23 means 123 cents. 09:59:40 You may say quit to withdraw from bidding. 09:59:40 I will announce the results when everyone has withdrawn. Start when I say. 09:59:42 Moo! 09:59:47 You may start NOW! 09:59:53 $0.00 09:59:58 $0.01 10:00:06 quit 10:00:07 immibis has withdrawn from bidding. 10:00:10 And now for the results. 10:00:13 The highest bidder was: immibis. He bid 1 cents. He gained -99 cents 10:00:14 immibis bidded -99 cents. He gained -99 cents 10:00:16 Now to find out who won. The winner is... 10:00:18 !!!! 10:00:19 Game finished. Module unloading. 10:00:25 ... 10:00:31 You gained -99 cents! 10:00:37 what is this? 10:00:47 auction bot? 10:00:59 it only auctions pretend dollars :( 10:01:03 I have a dollar extra, but who will I give it to? 10:01:03 I know, I'll auction it off! 10:01:03 Everyone who wants to play, say ME! 10:01:03 You have 15 seconds to say ME! before the game starts 10:01:06 ME! 10:01:07 ME! 10:01:08 immibis, what esolang is it coded in? 10:01:18 Ok, now you can bid by saying your bid on a line by itself. 10:01:18 $123 means 123 dollars. $1.23 means 123 cents. 123 means 123 cents. 1.23 means 123 cents. 10:01:18 You may say quit to withdraw from bidding. 10:01:18 I will announce the results when everyone has withdrawn. Start when I say. 10:01:20 it isn't but it interprets brainfuck 10:01:23 therefore its allowed here 10:01:26 You may start NOW! 10:01:27 immibis, okay 10:01:29 $1000000 10:01:34 $1.00 10:01:42 quit 10:01:43 immibis has withdrawn from bidding. 10:01:46 And now for the results. 10:01:48 The highest bidder was: Slereah. He bid 1000000 cents. He lost $9999.0 10:01:50 immibis bidded 100 cents. He lost $1.0 10:01:52 Slereah bidded 999900 cents. He lost $9999.0 10:01:54 Now to find out who won. The winner is... 10:01:54 Ahahah 10:01:56 Slereah!!!! 10:01:56 Game finished. Module unloading. 10:02:00 Your robot can't count 10:02:00 this is incredibly bugged 10:02:33 I'll say 10:02:41 especially when theer's only one person playing... 10:02:43 scroll up 10:02:51 the winner is !!!! apparently 10:03:02 Good for !!!! 10:03:03 * immibis can't remember when he wrote that 10:03:08 auction bot 10:04:01 * immibis starts netbeans 10:04:33 netbeans implies java 10:04:37 * AnMaster pukes 10:05:42 yes it does... 10:05:56 because it can easily load classes dynamically. 10:05:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:06:13 so i can add new commands (if i want to) and modules (also if i want to) without restarting it 10:06:24 immibis, I made an irc bot in bash that could load and unload modules dynamically 10:06:29 @raw join #bots 10:06:40 you'd rather write an irc bot in bash than in java? 10:06:46 immibis, yes! 10:06:57 ... 10:06:58 immibis, http://envbot.kuonet.org/trac btw 10:07:33 Hey, even fungot (written in Funge-98) can reload itself dynamically without restarting it. :p 10:07:34 fizzie: i assume that termite will behave uniformly on windows and linux port, but textmate remains exclusive for the mac 10:07:49 indeed 10:08:03 you can do it, with more or less work, in most languages 10:08:43 you can even do it in C. I can think of two ways to replace the "core". 10:08:47 Though admittedly it gets confused if there are too large changes in the structure. And it's so far not able to reload the "^style" listings without a restart, even though that'd be reasonably trivial. 10:09:35 1) start a new process, send over the state and fds over a unix socket 2) use mprotect() and some other magic to rewrite the code in memory. 10:10:28 Each command is a class. When you need to execute a command, load it with a new class loader so it doesn't get the cached version. Simple. 10:10:49 Of course, you can only rewrite the commands. 10:11:00 Irssi's "/upgrade" command -- to be used after you've upgraded the binary -- does that first one. (Well, I'm not sure what it uses to pass the state information to the child, but anyway.) 10:11:02 I would probably require explicit reloading of modules for speed reasons 10:11:23 fizzie, yes, I remember some ircd could do it to reload the core... 10:11:36 AnMaster: Maybe if you're processing hundreds of commands per second... 10:11:44 for reloading modules in C you can of course just do some dlopen()/dlclose() stuff 10:11:47 Or have a really slow computer. 10:11:58 I guess with AnMaster speed's a matter of principle. 10:12:29 immibis, I assume even handling server messages like PING, numerics and such are reloadable modules? 10:12:40 fizzie, :) 10:12:41 no, that's handled in the irc library it uses. 10:12:47 irc library? 10:12:48 heh 10:13:04 give me three good reasons not to use one. 10:13:23 Perversity, esotericity and... fabulousity? 10:13:25 immibis, that implementing the IRC protocol is trivial. Maybe 30-40 lines at most. 10:13:44 learning a library seems a bit of a waste 10:16:51 * immibis notices that it doesn't actually reload commands each time 10:17:06 @Error ??? 10:17:07 Caught a java.lang.InstantiationException! toboge.Execer_Error 10:17:11 ..... 10:17:16 a library would end up with some API like: connect(Server, Port) -> SocketOrErrorCode disconnect(Socket) -> void getline(Socket) -> LineOrErrorCode sendline(Socket, String) -> ErrorCode 10:17:35 maybe a parameter for ssl to connect() too 10:17:50 freenode doesn't support ssl though 10:18:05 m.c=new IRCConnection(network,6667,6669,password,nick,nick,"Extensible EgoBot Clone"); 10:18:05 m.c.setPong(true); 10:18:10 m.c.setDaemon(false); 10:18:10 m.c.setColors(false); 10:18:15 m.c.connect(); 10:18:15 m.c.addIRCEventListener(m); 10:18:32 immibis, ah right, you could let it handle the whole connection if you wanted 10:18:34 A trivial implementation is trivial. Certainly you can spend more lines, trying to interpret the 005 numerics sensibly and providing a more user-friendly object-oriented view of the IRC connection. 10:18:36 so then it would need the nick too 10:18:52 Irssi's irc/core/*.c files hold a total of 9217 lines. 10:18:54 fizzie, does OO view of IRC make sense? 10:19:08 It doesn't make too much unsense, for one thing. 10:19:13 fizzie, does that include the user interface and such? 10:19:17 No. 10:19:19 right 10:19:20 it isn't very oop, it just has IRCConnections and IRCEventListeners 10:20:02 fizzie, and yes interpreting 005, rate limiting sending and such could be added sure. 10:20:31 and I guess you could let it handle replying to server pings 10:21:02 Well, it includes the "user interface" in the sense that there are implementations for all (directly IRC-related) "/foo"-style commands, which wouldn't really be part of a generic IRC library. 10:21:28 fizzie, formatting /who output nicely and such? 10:22:05 Not that. But what to send to the server when a client does a "/who". 10:22:27 heh 10:23:57 I've seen at least one OO-style IRC library which took care of stuff like automagically remembering the people on channel (based on joins and quits) and so on. 10:24:31 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:25:34 -!- toBogE has joined. 10:25:49 toboge has 3 languages you can't do much in (magritte, minimum, nil), one you can (brainfuck) and one you sometimes can (irp) :( 10:26:05 oh, one more you can't (hello) 10:26:06 !hello HH 10:26:07 Hello World 10:26:08 Unknown command (HH) encountered 10:26:08 Hello World 10:26:16 ...fail 10:26:47 heh 10:26:48 !setprefix C@ 10:26:53 @raw join #toboge,#bots 10:26:55 See? 10:26:56 Told you 10:26:59 TOO MANY BOTS 10:27:14 Soon we'll be useless 10:27:18 And bots will replace us 10:27:38 I could easily be replaced by a fungot instance that has just been trained with only my own speech. 10:27:39 fizzie: and hanson explains why it works not. going via the main ' formula' twice, just because you're used to, but then when it takes too long 10:27:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:28:33 fungot, could you replace fizzie? 10:28:34 immibis: that could encode any non-negative integer, is a relationship. yay 10:28:40 fungot, no really 10:28:40 immibis: no, they are all 10:28:49 it said no. 10:29:01 !swedish and hanson explains why it works not. going via the main ' formula' twice, just because you're used to, but then when it takes too long 10:29:01 fungot: Just believe in yourself and you can do it! 10:29:01 und hunsun ixpleeens vhy it vurks nut. gueeng feea zee meeen ' furmoole' tveece-a, joost becoose-a yuoo're-a used tu, boot zeen vhee it tekes tuu lung 10:29:01 fizzie: how wasn't the weather? :) 10:29:16 This just blew my mind 10:29:32 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:33:48 -!- immibis has quit ("OUCH!!!"). 10:33:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:38:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:41:18 [[Eliezer Yudkowsky (pronounced .Frankensteen.)]] <-- bloody americans don't know it's "frankenstine"? 10:42:25 also, oklodok!!!!! 10:46:49 -!- augur has joined. 10:47:02 oklodok! 11:06:48 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:38:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:53:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:06:26 hi ais523 12:08:02 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:08:05 hi 12:10:38 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 12:11:09 Actual LOL at "how wasn't the weather?". Gotta love fungot. 12:11:10 ehirdiphone: i just spent three seconds wondering why `data track' by `data track' by `data track' by `data track' wouldn't play from this cd 12:11:25 That was probably verbatim 12:11:26 heh 12:11:32 Hi oklodok. 12:11:48 ehird, too many "by data track" repeated there to make sense 12:11:50 Well. The repetition wasn't verbatim. 12:11:51 ehirdiphone: maybe not exactly that number of iterations 12:11:53 Yeah. 12:11:55 indeed 12:13:00 I found a wonderful thing yesterday night; let me load up my trans-computer bookmarking system: http://gmail.com/ 12:13:04 ehirdiphone: I love the quote "how wasn't the weather" too 12:13:35 heh, I'm going the other way round, I'm using my laptop as a cross-website email system 12:13:37 interesting... vlc has an ncurses frontend... 12:13:46 I finally managed to set up my Yahoo! Mail account to be sane 12:13:55 ...ais523 why not use gmail? 12:14:10 not that I even really created it deliberately, it's just that both my main and secondary email have gone down 12:14:14 He's paranoid. 12:14:18 and I happened to have a spare Yahoo! account lying around 12:14:32 and yes, I am; I'm only using Yahoo! as a relay atm 12:14:35 AnMaster: Mplayer can use libcaca iirc 12:14:36 ehirdiphone, why does he trust yahoo then? 12:14:42 AnMaster: I don't 12:14:45 AnMaster: Theyre smaller 12:14:59 ehird, well right, but I meant as in a ncurses GUI for the playlist and so on 12:15:11 ehird, haven't tried playing video with this frontend yet... 12:15:21 I accidentally muddled VLC with VNC then, and got confused 12:15:49 heh 12:16:06 Here we go. http://www.smallbizcenter.info/magniwork.php?apid=A5M&apflag=1&gclid=CM7V14r9v5sCFd0B4wod6zhdEg&v=1. They claim literally to have a perpetual motion machine giving infinite free energy for $100 + $197 ~= $300. 12:16:10 Hilarious. 12:17:13 * ais523 imagines what a playlist on a VNC would do 12:17:14 Simpler link: http://magniwork.com/ 12:17:40 maybe you could use it if you were one of those schools IT people who goes around looking at what the students are doing 12:17:49 although a VNC isn't really perfect for that 12:18:22 -!- oerjan has quit ("The weather wasn't sunny with occasional bursts of vacuum"). 12:18:44 -!- M0ny has joined. 12:19:00 Was it constant vaccuum instead? 12:20:45 Bye. 12:20:47 -!- ehirdiphone has quit ("Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"). 12:25:28 ais523, a rather nice ncurses gui btw: http://omploader.org/vMXhrNA 12:25:31 (and not vnc!) 12:35:20 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 12:35:32 Whoa, trippy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Fi1VcbpAI 12:37:40 AnMaster: you're linking to a screenshot of a curses prorgam? 12:37:40 why were any cars driving on it by that point of time 12:37:46 ais523, yes? 12:37:52 but curses is text-based! 12:38:02 What we need is a VNC client for VLC, and to use it in the curses interface 12:38:04 surely by now someone's invented a copy-and-paste-with-colour 12:38:13 ais523, not afaik 12:38:21 AnMasterwhy were any cars driving on it by that point of time 12:38:26 there's ttyrec I suppose, but it's not quite the same thing 12:38:28 Are you serious? 12:38:53 ok, videos opens a X window with the ncurses frontend 12:39:01 I guess video interface is a separate parameter 12:39:05 Lame 12:39:38 ehirdiphone, there is probably another parameter for it 12:39:39 •••••€ 12:39:52 like there is for alsa vs. oss for audio backedn 12:39:54 backend* 12:39:56 •••••••••*****> an arow of bye 12:39:58 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 12:39:59 just haven't found the right one yet 12:40:00 bbiab 12:54:55 -!- M0ny has quit. 12:55:07 -!- M0ny has joined. 12:57:14 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 12:57:27 -!- M0ny has quit (Client Quit). 12:57:52 -!- M0ny has joined. 13:15:40 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 13:25:05 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:47:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:51:44 -!- M0ny has quit. 14:59:58 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:20:59 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 15:37:22 oklodok: I'm an undergrad student in Missouri. 15:42:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:04:19 -!- Dartus_Clicus has joined. 16:04:33 ais523: Such as this one? 16:05:11 ....wow, there are a lot of people here 16:05:15 yes 16:05:20 welcome, anyway 16:05:22 Yo. 16:06:20 Let's see... I recognize Warrigal, ais, pikhq, and comex from ##nomic. ais was right, nomic and esolanging /do/ have a lot of people in common. 16:06:32 -!- Dartus_Clicus has changed nick to Darth_Cliche. 16:06:45 Also ehird. 16:08:14 Didn't notice him. ehird = tusho = zuff, right? 16:08:19 Yeah. 16:08:45 Also, Oerjan (who's not here right now) used to play Agora. 16:10:23 according to the frappr map, pik, you live in Colorado? 16:10:30 If so, epic winb 16:10:35 *win 16:11:33 Oh, and ihope is on here, according to the map. Another nomicer 16:11:58 Used to. Now live in Missouri... 16:12:15 ah 16:14:07 I can't find ais anywhere on the map. I've check everywhere in both America and Britain 16:14:14 Darth_Cliche: I'm not on it 16:14:21 although you can deduce my current location from my email address 16:14:28 oh? 16:14:33 well, my old, currently-nonfunctional one, anyway 16:14:33 how 16:14:41 Darth_Cliche: ais523@bham.ac.uk 16:14:44 the domain name should be clear enough 16:14:47 Birmingham 16:15:39 So, /another/ British person? Current British friends of mine: Kevan, ais523, Devenger (Scottish) 16:16:12 esolangers tend to be either British or Scandinavian, although there are a few Americans, and a few people of other nationalities 16:16:40 Scandinavian? 16:16:57 yep, one of the more surprising statistical tendencies 16:17:21 There are a higher percentage of Scandinavian websurfers in one year than Americans 16:17:30 Also, Scandinavia is awesome 16:17:37 agreed 16:17:42 Which one? 16:17:48 -!- mtd has left (?). 16:18:16 I was talking about the high proportion of Scandinavians, it's a lot higher than on the Internet generally 16:18:55 I know of at least one Australian esolanger 16:18:58 David Morgan-Mar 16:19:10 he invented Piet, Chef, and Ook, among other things 16:19:10 yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian 16:19:15 Who?? 16:19:20 *Who? 16:19:26 inventor of INTERCAL's threading and backtracking extensions 16:20:27 I have a friend from San Seriffe who codes Brainfuck 16:20:39 anyone we know here, I wonder? 16:20:48 there are a lot of BF programmers in the wild, though, so to speak 16:20:52 it's an addictive language 16:21:01 I can't understand it. Ever. 16:21:26 I've tried taking tutorials. It doesn't help 16:21:35 !bfjoust vibration >>+++++<-----<(-)*128(+-)*10000 16:21:43 Score for ais523_vibration: 15.8 16:21:44 What? 16:21:52 BF joust is a bit different 16:21:52 competitive Brainfuck 16:21:53 EgoBot? 16:21:58 You don't have to program, really 16:21:59 the sport was invented in Agora, incidentally 16:22:05 and EgoBot's an esolang bot 16:22:14 !bf_txtgen Darth Cliche 16:22:17 121 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-. [462] 16:22:20 What's BF joust? 16:22:22 What I think I mean is that there's no higher level to it than the BF 16:22:25 !brainfuck +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-. 16:22:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 16:22:42 !bf8 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-. 16:22:42 Darth Cliche 16:22:48 Whereas even in something like hello world, the BF acts on a much lower level than what you're trying for 16:23:08 !bf_txtgen This is a test 16:23:10 132 +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------. [581] 16:23:18 !languages 16:23:25 !help languages 16:23:25 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 16:23:51 !bf8 +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------. 16:23:51 This is a test 16:24:03 ^bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------. 16:24:03 This is a test. 16:24:20 ok, that's strange, why did fungot add a full stop? 16:24:21 ais523: fnord. sah to be victorious, to endure, to hold out, as i recall 16:24:26 ^bf ++++++++++.......... 16:24:26 .......... 16:24:27 !befunge_txtgen Hmm 16:24:30 oh, it prints newline as dot 16:24:50 !befunge98_txtgen Hmm 16:25:03 "mmH">:#,_@ 16:25:10 !befunge98 "mmH">,#_@ 16:25:10 H 16:25:14 Typo 16:25:15 whoops, missed the colon 16:25:17 !befunge98 "mmH">,:#_@ 16:25:18 H 16:25:25 >:#,_ 16:25:27 >,:#_ 16:25:28 Hahahahahaha 16:25:29 !befunge98 "mmH">:#,_@ 16:25:29 Hmm 16:25:30 There's a difference 16:25:33 :-) 16:25:38 Deewiant: I know, just my Befunge is a little rusty 16:25:42 !befunge98 THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA 16:25:48 Infloop 16:25:52 Darth_Cliche: that's an infinite loop 16:25:54 I broke EgoBot 16:26:01 nah, it kills infinite loops after a while 16:26:02 without output 16:26:16 hmm... where's thutubot got to? 16:26:58 I wonder how many people here are Ardorian? 16:27:10 -!- thutubot has joined. 16:27:14 +hello 16:27:14 Hello, ais523! 16:27:24 +hello 16:27:25 Hello, Darth_Cliche! 16:27:33 +ul (This is a test.)S 16:27:33 This is a test. 16:27:39 ul? 16:27:44 What's ul? 16:27:48 Underload 16:27:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload 16:30:19 +ul (:aSS):aSS 16:30:20 (:aSS):aSS 16:35:33 +ul ()^ 16:35:52 Darth_Cliche: that's a no-op 16:36:00 and a joke program in the original article 16:36:06 ...oh 16:38:28 XCIX beer solum in parietis, XCIX beer solum. Take I down, obduco inter, XCVIII beer solum in parietis. 16:39:01 sounds like the sort of thing you'd do in an INTERCAL beer progrm 16:39:02 *program 16:39:12 it outputs in Roman numerals by default; if you want decimal, you have to convert by hand 16:39:37 heh 16:39:43 I was just translating it to Latin 16:40:44 Now I'm reading a guide on DECLENSION AND CASE, the most evil things in the world 16:42:56 ^ignore 16:42:57 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE) 16:43:07 ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|thutubot) 16:43:07 OK. 16:43:13 I really should make that thing persistent. 16:43:34 Or just give up. We had a fungot-toBogE loop today. 16:43:34 fizzie: ( display " fnord ( unsigned char) fnord " fnord un fnord ooff fnord. 16:46:33 Toboge? 16:46:45 obviously an EgoBot rival 16:46:52 It was here during the day. 16:46:55 also, that misses Lambdabot 16:47:08 and itself, although I assume that's dealt with elsewhere 16:47:36 and ehird's replay bot, although I've forgotten what that's called 16:48:16 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:48:18 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:49:32 ais523: I was going through my old maths books (for exams/SAT's) and I found a nice little box that said "Thanks to ais523" under which my teacher wrote "Is that a formula? Show substitution". Heh, just thought I'd let you know 16:49:44 haha 16:51:23 oerjan: also, oklodok!!!!! <<< hi oerjie! 16:51:31 augur: oklodok! <<< hi again augie! 16:51:40 ehirdiphone: Hi oklodok. <<< hello phone dood! 16:52:13 oklodok: Darth Cliche! <<< Um... 16:52:38 pikhq: oklodok: I'm an undergrad student in Missouri. <<< okay, you just mentioned mit owns, so i checked. 16:53:10 ... I did? 16:53:17 MIT = Massachussetts Institute of Technology, not Missouri Institute of Technology 16:54:04 -!- comex has changed nick to judicaster. 16:54:07 Darth_Cliche: Well aware. 16:54:26 (though we did try to get my school renamed to "Missouri Institute of Technology".) 16:55:19 Darth_Cliche: oklodok: Darth Cliche! <<< Um... <<< i copy paste actually messages and add stuff after the <<<, makes no sense if your client shows messages in some other way. 16:55:35 pikhq: yes, you were very eager to tell they use scheme 16:55:44 unless i misunderstood you. 16:56:12 That was ehird... 16:56:20 whatt 16:56:33 Log reading fail. 16:56:42 no memory fail 16:56:44 About the only thing we've got going for us is that our university system is pretty good – IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. That's true, I'd love to go to mit. 16:56:47 i thought it was you 16:56:49 That was the recent thing. 16:56:53 i mean i asked about it 16:56:59 and i thought it was you who told me that 16:57:10 i mean i knew it already, but i thought it was you who told it then 16:57:44 i'm referring to when i asked whether mit was good. 16:57:49 They don't use Scheme any more, anyway. At least in the iconic 6.001 course. 16:58:18 because i'm thinking trying out the american unis after a few years 16:58:25 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:58:29 all of them, maybe 17:03:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:05:12 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:05:13 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 17:05:53 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 17:09:13 Heh, VirtualBox seems to have jumped from the 2.2 numbers directly to 3.0. 17:09:38 what does that mean 17:09:47 in both senses 17:09:57 Which two senses? 17:10:15 what does the sentence mean, and after that, what does the actual data mean 17:11:06 -!- Darth_Cliche has left (?). 17:11:16 I just mean that they've been numbering their (recent) releases 2.2.0, 2.2.2, 2.2.4 and one would assume the next one would have been 2.3.0, but it is 3.0.0 instead. 17:11:21 what a cliche that guy 17:12:47 Well, or 2.3.0 or 2.2.6, depending on whether they actually did anything special. 3 is quite a jump, and seems it's "only" because it now supports SMP for the virtual machines. 17:13:30 some esolangs have even been known to do jumps like 1.6 -> 7.0 17:13:55 iirc one ircd did something like that too. 17:14:00 forgot which 17:14:23 fizzie: Also 3D support. 17:14:26 Slackware had their 4 -> 7 jump too. 17:14:39 i assumed fizzie would know what i'm referring to 17:14:41 Slackware did it just for the sake of version expansion. XD 17:14:43 3D, schmee-dee. I don't believe it works. 17:15:01 RedHat was doing numbers like 6 or so, they had to catch up. 17:15:32 anyway i guess i have to admit my latter question made no sense. 17:15:42 didn't realize it was about version numbers 17:17:25 -!- M0ny has joined. 17:17:36 i still want an answer though 17:18:31 You want to know the meaning of the version numbers? 17:19:00 i want to know what that jump signifies. 17:19:13 what is the greater purpose beneath it 17:20:06 Officially they just want to communicate the fact that adding SMP and some sort of better 3D acceleration support is such a major change that it justifies a new version number. Unofficially, I think it has to do with world domination. Most things do. 17:20:45 Or getting in someone's pants. 17:21:21 i accept both. 17:23:13 In your pants. 17:23:29 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 17:23:40 pikhq: are you sure it wasn't you who said they use scheme 17:23:47 it was ages ago 17:25:00 although i guess you may remember your lines better than me. 17:25:18 i just don't like misremembering irc conversations 17:27:22 one of the only things i remember without explicitly committing them to my memory 17:49:15 -!- judicaster has changed nick to comex. 17:55:23 -!- Hiato has quit ("underflow"). 18:14:05 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:18:57 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:21:41 -!- darthnuri has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:53:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:58:52 Was it constant vaccuum instead? <-- vaccuum [sic] would be something like raining cows, i think. so maybe. 20:03:02 also, is the ehirdiphone anything like the gaffophone? 20:05:13 what the heck wikipedia says that comics hasn't been translated to english! 20:05:36 more proof english speakers are really aliens from another planet 20:05:53 *comic 20:09:42 -!- calamari has joined. 20:09:49 -!- inurinternet has joined. 20:16:11 yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian 20:16:19 he's also an ancient agoran 20:16:28 ooh, interesting 20:16:47 ("Blob") 20:17:04 Misread "he's also an ancient algorithm". 20:19:17 * pikhq kills oerjan for telling the truth about the Anglo-Frisian languages 20:20:13 in fact have i have a vague recall that he may have been responsible for the special gender-neutral pronoun, as Blob didn't present as either male or female 20:20:26 s/have // 20:20:46 s/recall/recollection/ 20:21:00 Recall is the verb; recollection is how you noun it. 20:21:05 ;p 20:21:25 total recollection there 20:22:07 Dammit, English is screwy. 20:22:08 pikhq: when did i tell the truth about the anglo-frisian languages? 20:22:27 oh 20:22:28 You know when. 20:22:44 * oerjan stops channeling AnMaster 20:22:55 oerjan, ? 20:22:59 and in so doing, inevitably causes another ? 20:23:21 darn i was hoping to get that comment in before AnMaster's 20:23:22 oerjan, I was playing freeciv, did you want anything when you highlighted me? 20:23:29 otherwise I 20:23:37 I'm* going back playing freeciv 20:23:40 AnMaster: only to have you act stereotypically 20:23:49 AnMaster: set your highlight to only higlight you if your name's at the start of the line 20:23:50 sigh 20:23:54 to avoid this sort of awkward moment 20:24:02 really ais523? Sure that is a good idea? 20:24:17 AnMaster: not sure, it depends on what you want highlighting to do for you 20:24:28 varies. 20:24:30 if it's only comments directed at you, then start-of-line may be a good idea 20:24:35 wait, _i_ am annoyed that irssi _doesn't_ highlight all instances of my nick 20:24:37 if you want to know comments about you, then higlight everywhere 20:24:53 oerjan: what, I thought all IRC clients did by default? 20:25:08 it may be my skin 20:25:15 *theme 20:25:40 i downloaded a simple dark on white one 20:26:21 it mostly highlights oerjan at the start 20:27:31 hilight_nick_matches = ON 20:27:36 that might do it 20:27:59 it is on 20:28:12 it just doesn't catch all instances 20:29:27 `haskell putStrLn "What's an Asztal?" 20:29:27 No output. 20:29:44 irssi's online option documentation really sucks 20:29:53 where by sucks, i mean is nonexistent 20:30:51 HackEgo doesn't have haskell afaik 20:30:56 `ls 20:30:56 asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.28081 20:31:02 `ls bin 20:31:03 addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 20:31:20 !haskell putStrLn "What's an Asztal?" 20:31:22 What's an Asztal? 20:31:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:31:26 ah 20:31:44 well, that highlighted me, but I don't know what setting does that 20:32:17 !haskell interact.const$"What's an oerjan?" 20:32:18 What's an oerjan? 20:32:32 no highlighting 20:33:19 !haskell interact.const$"oerjan is an alien from the lesser Magellanic cloud" 20:33:21 oerjan is an alien from the lesser Magellanic cloud 20:33:26 that highlighted 20:33:29 A manually set "/hilight oerjan" should probably match everywhere in line. 20:33:38 ah 20:35:11 There's also the "-full" flag; "/hilight -full foo" highlights only where "foo" is a separate word. Though I guess in your case you won't get very many false positives from random words containing the substring "oerjan". 20:35:21 oerjan, what about "oerjan" followed by space, but in the middle of the line 20:35:27 instead of a question mark 20:35:51 too late i turned on fizzie's suggestion 20:36:43 also not using -full probably helps catching the alternate nick too, etc. 20:38:25 oerjanthere? 20:38:36 hm right, your nick isn't likely as a part of another word 20:39:01 hm that highlighted but with a different color 20:39:27 maybe that's just as well 20:40:06 food -> 20:48:30 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:53:45 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:57:17 08:15:39 So, /another/ British person? Current British friends of mine: Kevan, ais523, Devenger (Scottish) 20:57:20 i hate you too :) 20:57:53 08:20:27 I have a friend from San Seriffe who codes Brainfuck 20:57:57 I hate to break this to you. 20:58:53 ^bf . 20:58:58 aw. 20:59:20 08:35:52 Darth_Cliche: that's a no-op 20:59:20 08:36:00 and a joke program in the original article 20:59:22 not a joke 20:59:32 the adder believed it was legit 20:59:36 see talk 21:00:11 08:47:36 and ehird's replay bot, although I've forgotten what that's called 21:00:14 Dude, optbot 21:00:37 08:49:32 ais523: I was going through my old maths books (for exams/SAT's) and I found a nice little box that said "Thanks to ais523" under which my teacher wrote "Is that a formula? Show substitution". Heh, just thought I'd let you know 21:00:38 LOL 21:01:14 08:51:31 augur: oklodok! <<< hi again augie! 21:01:15 augie orgy 21:02:37 12:16:11 yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian 21:02:37 12:16:19 he's also an ancient agoran 21:02:38 12:16:28 ooh, interesting 21:02:40 12:16:47 ("Blob") 21:02:42 Blob is an esolanger?! 21:02:48 I think we have our first non-human esolanger. 21:02:59 12:20:13 in fact have i have a vague recall that he may have been responsible for the special gender-neutral pronoun, as Blob didn't present as either male or female 21:03:01 nor human. 21:03:15 didn't agora used to use singular they before blob? 21:03:28 12:22:44 * oerjan stops channeling AnMaster 21:03:28 12:22:55 oerjan, ? 21:03:29 12:22:59 and in so doing, inevitably causes another ? 21:03:34 AnMaster: say "what?" in a while 21:03:42 ehird, thanks, but no 21:03:50 ! 21:03:54 this is a momentous occasion 21:04:01 given blob joined within the first year of agora, if not even at the start... 21:04:08 afaik 21:04:22 *r 21:05:46 12:30:51 HackEgo doesn't have haskell afaik 21:05:47 wrong 21:05:49 oh, right 21:05:50 only egobot does 21:14:13 "At a time when the public display and discourse about matters of faith have been under attack, a new poll indicates most Americans – 63 percent – believe the Bible is literally true and the Word of God." 21:15:58 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:22:26 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 21:28:29 also, 95% of statisticians believe most polls are flawed, and even if they aren't, the results are misrepresented. *ducks* 21:31:43 And 95% of the time, they're right. 21:43:19 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃"). 21:46:27 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 21:47:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:47:55 is it possible to store metadata in flac? Like composer and title? 21:48:14 Yes, though it depends on which container format you're using. 21:48:37 pikhq, just flac? 21:48:40 The FLAC container format has a limited metadata format that amounts to a subset of Ogg comments. 21:48:47 as in, the file is called *.flac 21:48:53 The Ogg container format, obviously, has Ogg comments. 21:49:05 Yes, you can have metadata. 21:49:07 /mnt/phoenix/musik/vivaldi/track13.flac: FLAC audio bitstream data, 16 bit, stereo, 44.1 kHz, 9150456 samples 21:49:13 that thing 21:49:18 Yes. 21:49:28 That's FLAC in the FLAC container format. 21:49:47 pikhq, confusing... Anyway I need composer, symphony and movement. That's all 21:49:55 and some command line tool to set them 21:50:06 since I wish to import this from data I have prepared already 21:50:25 so I plan to write a short shell script to automate the adding 21:50:50 See metaflac. 21:51:00 pikhq, not in portage? 21:51:04 $ eix metaflac 21:51:04 No matches found. 21:51:15 It's part of FLAC. 21:51:23 AnMaster: Nobody uses ogg flac 21:51:25 everyone uses flac flac 21:51:29 and it uses ogg metadata 21:51:34 well, same allowable stuff 21:51:44 AnMaster: don't name it "track13", dammit 21:51:57 ehird, it was cdparanoia who did 21:52:03 ehird: I've used it when storing some intermediates from video compression jobs in an Ogg container. 21:52:04 then I converted the *.cdda to flac 21:52:09 AnMaster: *"cdparanoia did that" 21:52:18 ehird, yes him! 21:52:31 "who did" is still a bad way to end a sentence 21:52:40 "cdparanoia did that" is the only idiomatic way i can think of 21:52:44 and so ehird corrects English again! 21:52:52 Yes. Yes I does. 21:53:09 :D 21:53:17 ehird, s/does/do/ btw :P 21:53:21 ;P 21:53:26 Whoosh! 21:53:38 ehird, I was playing along. So whoosh is wrong :P 21:53:53 ur a butt lol ^.^ 21:54:15 What language was that? 21:54:23 the language of butt lol ^.^ 21:54:29 i wish I could use plan9 21:54:30 Hm... City of Ur? 21:54:36 ehird, why can't you? 21:54:36 maybe I'll get a fileserver and put plan9 on it 21:54:53 AnMaster: cuz i'm a filthy capitalist desktop user and i like lotses of applications. 21:55:05 could run it as a fileserver though 21:55:10 + maybe music server of some sort 21:55:26 could run mpd on linux backed by a 9p filesystem, perhaps 21:55:33 that'd be nice 21:56:22 um 21:56:28 pikhq, have you used metaflac? 21:56:37 AnMaster: No. 21:56:39 I use easytag. 21:57:04 AnMaster: it's trivial 21:57:07 read the flac website 21:57:28 Read the manpage. 21:57:36 pikhq: try quod libet as a tagger 21:58:00 pikhq, oh well... I just can't find the option to add a tag, lots of other options, like adding replay-gain, copying from other file, adding picture(‽), and various other things 21:58:11 although as a music player it lacks the fundamental feature of being an mpd client. 21:58:17 ah found it... 21:58:25 AnMaster: use a gui editor, you'll be a lot calmer 21:58:27 now to find a list of valid tags :) 21:58:29 also, adding a picture = album art 21:58:31 yes, it is supported 21:58:34 AnMaster: ogg tags are freeform 21:58:36 you have to know the conventions 21:58:45 here's two: TITLE, ALBUM. 21:58:53 ehird, for about 300 flac files from prepared tab separated files? 21:59:02 ogg tags are freeform 21:59:04 ehird, sure, if you do that with a GUI editor 21:59:05 string→string. 21:59:12 no, this is standard 21:59:14 you use TITLE for the title 21:59:15 ehird, surely there is some "usual convention" 21:59:16 ALBUM for the album 21:59:19 and I forget all the rest 21:59:24 AnMaster: yes, I'm telling you FFS 21:59:27 TITLE 21:59:28 ALBUM 21:59:30 others 21:59:41 ehird, I need composer, symphony, movement. Album? What? 21:59:50 ......you don't know what an album is? 21:59:57 ehird,... yes 22:00:04 I meant, doesn't make sense here 22:00:05 Anyway, google it. 22:00:20 it would be like: "Complete Symphonies, Volume 3" or such 22:00:26 sure 22:00:27 put that in 22:00:44 AnMaster: i suggest peeking at the source of http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ and seeing what it does. 22:00:50 or quod libet. 22:04:51 * AnMaster looks at another of the CDs 22:05:13 how many cds are you ripping? 22:05:34 ehird, ~30 with classical music iirc 22:05:45 for my own personal enjoyment 22:05:58 and they are all ripped and "flacced" 22:08:53 I never metaflac I did like. 22:09:07 *didn't 22:09:12 AnMaster: You used flac --best, right? 22:09:35 ehird, iirc yes. This was about 1-2 weeks ago I did the actual ripping and conversion... 22:09:59 also I used "did" instead of "didn't" because I didn't want to follow the norm :P 22:10:18 But "did like" is invalid. 22:10:22 Well, in context. 22:10:33 ehird, err why? 22:10:48 OK, not strictly invalid; incredibly unidiomatic. 22:10:53 It sounds completely wrong. 22:11:06 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 22:12:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:13:40 http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html btw 22:13:45 ehird, ^ 22:13:48 hi ais523 22:14:34 AnMaster: right, just invent your own TAGS for things like MOVEMENT 22:15:27 ehird, freedb tends to use something like: "Opus 3 - Allegro" or similar for it's title entry 22:15:37 but not consistently 22:15:41 Well, you could do that, but it's evil :P 22:15:44 Don't use FreeDB. 22:15:46 Use MusicBrainz. 22:15:52 ehird, yes, sometimes it is in extra instead. 22:15:59 ehird, if cd-info could fetch from it... 22:16:08 Use another program? 22:16:16 FreeDB has utterly crap results and is totally unmoderated; MusicBrainz is correct to the point of extreme pedanticism. 22:16:26 Also, it has a program that can tag FLACs, iirc. 22:16:29 ehird, command line one that can just dump the stuff to a text file for all tracks of the cd currently inserted? 22:16:33 that is the way I use it 22:16:34 You don't need that. 22:16:38 MusicBrainz analyzes the files 22:16:42 to determine what track it is 22:16:49 You can just set it on your directory of FLACs and it'll tag 'em all 22:17:07 ehird, Some sort of checksum? 22:17:10 Ot 22:17:12 It's 22:17:20 some sort of weird proprietary thing they licensed from a huge company nowadays I think 22:17:21 and how would it work for lossy compression like mp3 or ogg 22:17:24 but it's never wrong 22:17:27 AnMaster: it's very magical 22:17:31 ton of heuristics 22:17:33 ehird, open implementation? 22:17:35 I've never had it misidentify a file 22:17:39 AnMaster: think so, yes 22:17:41 their stuff is open source. 22:17:47 issue now: AnMaster said hi, but it was sufficiently long ago that I'll be nickpinging him out of context if I reply 22:17:48 http://musicbrainz.org/; go with Picard or sth 22:18:03 ehird, since I don't like to upload a 16 MB *.flac 22:18:07 it doesn't 22:18:09 it checksums 22:18:10 ais523, hah 22:18:12 ehird, right 22:21:33 AnMaster: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Classical_Music_FAQ :p 22:23:52 ehird: orgy? ok! 22:24:28 pikhq, I tried easytags. How do you prevent it asking every time if I want to rename the file? I don't want to rename the file. 22:24:38 can't find any setting for that 22:24:44 and quite messy to use. 22:26:21 AnMaster: Just use Picar 22:26:21 d 22:26:24 AnMaster: There's a "do this for every file" option in the checkbox. 22:26:27 Set directory, click tag, get coffee. 22:26:31 Erm. In the dialog. 22:26:42 pikhq, no? Are you using ~arch? 22:26:47 (I'm using stable) 22:26:50 No. 22:26:57 Well, I am for some things, but not that. 22:28:00 Or don't :P 22:30:00 * pikhq needs to check out MusicBrainz. 22:30:05 pikhq, also easytag can't add non-standard tags it seems? 22:31:35 AnMaster: Okay, so it's not all that great. Figure out MusicBrainz, and I think I'll do the same. 22:33:14 pikhq: "Figure out"? 22:33:20 Install picard. Point at directory. Snore. 22:33:55 ehird, does it handle flac? 22:34:00 I think so. 22:34:02 If not, use another client. 22:34:15 would be useful to know *before* installing 22:34:25 yeah, typing "emerge picard" is soo hard 22:34:32 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PicardDownload 22:34:34 → 22:34:34 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_Tagger 22:34:39 → 22:34:39 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_Tagger#Documentation_for_Users 22:34:47 right 22:34:50 → 22:34:50 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_FAQ 22:34:52 Yes, it supports FLAC. 22:35:12 So install it, open the root directory, click it, click "tag" or whatever the UI is these days, and it'll all be filled automatically. 22:35:19 -!- darthnuri has joined. 22:35:46 AnMaster: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/How_To_Tag_Files_With_Picard 22:35:50 an explanation of how to use the weird UI 22:36:01 tl;dr — drag your directory to unmatched files. click cluster. 22:36:16 click lookup on the "cluster" heading. 22:36:20 ehird, wasn't it you who said that a GUI shouldn't need any documentation? 22:36:27 check they work okay. press "save" 22:36:28 voila 22:36:31 AnMaster: it shouldn't 22:36:34 but picard has a bad ui :) 22:36:43 one-time operation though 22:36:49 well, for the majority 22:36:54 ripping a cd, maybe takes 30 seconds extra 22:36:56 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 22:37:00 worth it for the quality 22:40:12 ehird, ripping a cd takes a few minutes...? 22:40:22 Yes it does? 22:40:33 30 seconds you said? heh 22:40:36 I meant using picard adds 30sec time to ripping 22:40:39 hm 22:40:50 ehird, depends on if movement is in a separate field or not 22:40:59 What? 22:41:29 ehird, since I prefer my own planned format for the metadata 22:41:42 Then MusicBrainz is not for you and you have serious OCD problems. 22:41:43 ehird, where do I drag the files from btw? 22:41:50 See the link. 22:41:51 I'm running under xmonad atm 22:42:11 Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 22:42:13 Why do I care? 22:42:22 Anyway, if you're going to mangle the metadata, don't bother. 22:42:25 It'll just be painful. 22:42:31 ehird, what would be? 22:42:41 22:41 AnMaster: ehird, since I prefer my own planned format for the metadata 22:42:57 Just hand-write them if you're going to do that. 22:42:58 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 22:43:00 ehird, I can use a script to fix it? 22:43:11 ehird, as in, I already have it parsed in text files as I said above -_- 22:43:18 I would seriously suggest against using MusicBrainz if you're going to change the metadata. 22:44:07 -!- inurinternet has joined. 22:44:19 ehird, hm why? 22:44:46 Because Picard's whole appeal is "drag, click, done", and updating the metadata will be a bitch. 22:44:52 (Because it IS updated from time to time.) 22:45:06 ehird, I could read it with metaflac and then rewrite it? 22:45:20 ehird, it isn't likely I will run picard more than once... 22:45:21 I have an idea. Why not repeat what you said two lines ago?! 22:45:31 the files will be moved afterwards soon again 22:45:35 s/again/ 22:45:50 so if it tries to remember where the files were next time it starts it will have issues. 22:45:55 It doesn't. 22:48:04 err. after dragging the files to unmatched, I should click cluster right? 22:48:09 so why doesn't anything happen 22:48:36 AnMaster: highlight unmatched 22:48:38 then click cluster 22:48:42 I did... 22:48:51 ehird, it just does nothing. 22:49:07 Find out which step of http://musicbrainz.org/doc/How_To_Tag_Files_With_Picard you deviated from and undeviate. 22:49:10 ehird, maybe it doesn't know the cd? if so, why not say it instead of just doing nothing 22:49:11 Wait for Picard to process the files (the names will turn from grey to black) and then click on the cluster button in the toolbar to cluster files into album clusters. 22:49:13 Did you wait? 22:49:19 AnMaster: you did drag your whole library right? 22:49:21 not just one cd 22:49:28 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 22:49:42 ehird, one cd. since it is sorted in the file system as one directory per cd 22:49:53 Yes, and they both have a common parent, I would assume..... 22:50:03 ehird, eh? 22:50:25 I nominate your ethos and organizational structure for the "Least Tenable To MusicBrainz" award 2009. 22:50:36 yes it does, that is the "kraus" for the composer. Like this: /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol1 /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol2 and so on 22:52:02 ehird, clicking "cluster" is just a nop 22:52:04 ... 22:52:25 Are the files gray or black? 22:52:31 ehird, black 22:52:35 You did something wrong. 22:52:38 named track01.flac and so on 22:52:44 ehird, they should be gray? 22:52:50 No. 22:52:58 then why did I do something wrong? 22:53:08 Read the file I linked, follow it word for wrod. 22:53:09 word. 22:53:13 ehird, I fucking did 22:53:20 No you didn't, otherwise it would have worked. 22:53:21 Under 'View' enable 'File Browser'. 22:53:22 Select a directory or files and drag them to the Unmatched Files folder. 22:53:26 Wait for Picard to process the files (the names will turn from grey to black) and then click on the cluster button in the toolbar to cluster files into album clusters. 22:53:29 hm 22:53:34 they were black right from the start 22:53:35 odd 22:53:59 -!- darthnuri has quit (Connection timed out). 22:54:09 ehird, are they supposed to be black right away? 22:54:19 Do you have a 400mhz processor? 22:54:26 ehird, 2 GHz... 22:54:30 Then yes. 22:54:33 right 22:55:09 anyway, cluster does completely nothing 22:56:31 Do they not move to the Clusters folder? 22:56:36 ehird, no 22:56:42 they stay in unmatched 22:56:48 Buy a new computer that isn't broken. 22:57:03 ehird, .... very funny 22:57:16 my conclusion: picard is either shit or has a very shitty UI. 22:57:20 WFM 22:57:26 ? 22:57:32 You did something wrong, or your installation of it is broken, or your system is broken. 22:57:33 Wait For Make? 22:57:40 Or you've run into the AnMaster-is-using-me bug. 22:57:41 ehird, or picard is broken 22:57:55 I find that extremely unlikely, as it is both popular and I have used it personally. 22:58:07 It is unlikely that everyone else is just hallucinating it working perfectly. 22:58:20 You prescribe too much value to your anecdotal experience. 22:58:41 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uoM-PdJhtmk 22:58:46 Maybe this screencast would help. 22:58:48 ehird, want a screenshot after and before clicking cluster? They would be the same, pixel by pixel 23:00:12 ehird, all examples have files which already contain *some* metadata it seems? 23:00:20 utterly irrelevant 23:00:20 but in this case the files contain no metadata whatsoever 23:00:33 Just click Lookup before Cluster, it seems. 23:00:37 CD Lookup, that is. 23:00:41 CD Lookup → Cluster → Lookup. 23:00:49 ehird, "http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PicardDocumentation#Basic_Picard_Documentation" 23:00:49 Yep. 23:00:52 not irrelevant 23:00:53 :P 23:01:34 ehird, cd lookup is greyed out however. Should I have the CD inserted while doing that? Can't it figure it out from the files alone... 23:01:45 Uh, highlight the files? 23:01:50 ehird, done... 23:01:54 Click CD Lookup? 23:01:59 i mean individually btw 23:02:04 ehird, grayed out and tried it 23:02:10 Sec. 23:02:16 AnMaster: is Lookup grayed out? 23:02:26 ehird, no, but "cd lookup" is 23:02:35 Press Lookup, then 23:02:48 ehird, lookup says "no matches found" 23:02:51 for each file 23:03:03 how useful. freedb has them btw 23:03:04 How obscure is this performance exactly 23:03:18 what is this conversation even about? 23:03:18 Look it up manually on http://musicbrainz.org/; ur obviously doin it rong. 23:03:37 ehird, Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - City of London Sinfonia - Virgo Records - Recorded 1991 23:03:44 ais523: AnMaster is using every failing he has with a piece of software I recommended in an attempt to help him out to yell "fail" at me and call the software shit. 23:04:15 ehird, the fact that it doesn't seem to work seems relevant when deciding if something works or not... 23:05:04 hah. it managed to match some of the other files. To completely wrong CDs. Like: Das Licht der Phantasie (disc 1) - Terry Pratchett 23:05:22 ehird, complete and utter fail if it misidentifies instead of saying "not known" 23:05:23 IMO 23:05:26 You're certainly doing it wrong. 23:05:32 FreeDB is the one that misidentifies and returns wrong tags all the time. 23:05:39 ehird, never done that for me 23:05:50 Yes, because you live in opposites world. 23:06:20 hm 23:06:38 ehird, Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - City of London Sinfonia - Virgo Records - Recorded 1991 <-- I tried searching for various parts of that. But I can't figure out their search form thingy... 23:06:45 so I'm not sure if I searched wrong 23:06:47 It's very simple. 23:07:02 Antonio Vivaldi for artist? 23:07:04 http://musicbrainz.org/search.html 23:07:05 that's all? 23:07:11 Just use free text. 23:07:23 http://musicbrainz.org/artist/ad79836d-9849-44df-8789-180bbc823f3c.html 23:07:25 ah, it said "textsearch" for me in the url 23:07:25 Vivaldi. 23:08:01 ehird, the album I have is not there 23:08:02 Then grep "four seasons". 23:08:14 AnMaster: Then it's so obscure it barely exists... 23:08:17 ehird, I know it is released 1991 23:08:19 Well, add it. 23:08:39 ehird, do I need to create an account? If so fuck it, freedb has an entry for it. 23:08:44 so I'll just use that instead 23:09:17 AnMaster: That's funny; you chastise me for not reporting bugs to projects' BugZilla, which has an awful interface and requires registration with an email and you can't even pick your own password. 23:09:24 Yet a simple registration process to add to MusicBrainz is too much? 23:09:29 You truly are a fine hypocrite. 23:09:34 ehird, ok, it manages to identify 5 tracks out of 15 on another cd btw. 23:09:41 ehird: I'm relatively sure you can pick your own BugZilla password 23:09:44 6 incorrectly 23:09:46 ais523: only post-registration 23:09:48 the rest not at all 23:09:54 ehird, freedb has it 23:09:57 correctly 23:09:59 ehird: yes, that makes sense 23:10:03 it's basically the same as using a confirm code 23:10:09 just the confirm code goes in the password field 23:10:27 AnMaster: Right, and other OSs don't have the problems I had with Arch. 23:10:28 ais523, indeed. 23:10:32 Yet you still told me to report them. 23:10:52 I like to report bugs anyway 23:10:56 ais523, same 23:11:00 if nothing else, it gives me information on which projects respond to bugs quickly 23:11:15 anyway, why can't they just import everything from freedb and merge it with their own index 23:11:19 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 23:11:20 would save a lot of troubles 23:11:26 Because FreeDB's index is broken, mistagged and always wrong. 23:11:32 it was created BECAUSE freedb is intolerable 23:11:48 ehird, formatting for tags is inconsistent yes. But apart from that it works perfectly 23:12:02 Yes, BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE MOST INCORRECT OPPOSITES WORLD I'VE EVER HEARD OF! 23:12:31 ehird, I have used it for over 30 cds, it reported everything correctly, sometimes small typos yes, and sometimes inconsistent naming of tracks and so on 23:12:39 but at least it was always roughly correct. 23:12:47 I'm not going to talk to you because you're patently ignoring what I say. 23:13:03 ehird, why does musicbrainz like to give a completely wrong result instead of saying "not known"? 23:13:13 IT DOESN'T! FREEDB DOES! 23:13:18 ehird, it did... 23:13:21 want screenshot? 23:13:35 You generalise your stupid individual experience — that has never, ever failed to be incorrect and highly abnormal — to THE GENERAL CASE, because you're an IDIOT who doesn't understand statistics and has a penchant for breaking everything you use. Fuck off! 23:13:48 ehird, it actually works on one of the newer cds 23:13:55 but none of the cds older than 1995 23:14:02 haven't tried all new cds yet 23:14:13 but most cds I have are from 1992 or older so... 23:14:31 It works perfectly on my CDs from 1969 onwards. 23:14:36 this one is from 1985 for example 23:16:01 ehird, care to look at this screenshot for example: http://omploader.org/vMXhucQ 23:16:28 ehird, that is after using lookup 23:16:37 Wow, you truly do lack comprehension of anything. 23:16:53 I'm going to talk in alien language now, because it'll actually improve my communication. 23:16:54 ehird, how does it not mistag here? 23:17:00 just asking that 23:17:06 Gab flubb dirpmoglaaaaaaa tubadinoshçtok. 23:17:06 you claimed above it didn't 23:17:09 IT DOESN'T! FREEDB DOES! 23:17:22 you implied it never mistags 23:17:29 Qüoỏnt’glubakk no idioten. 23:17:41 ais523, can you make ehird understand the issue? He seems dense today 23:18:17 it fails for kraus too, giving wrong results 23:18:22 maybe it just fails at flac. not sure 23:18:26 don't have any non-flac to try with 23:18:28 ais523: If you're in the mood for honoring requests about arguments, please explain AnMaster what generalization means, and why "MusicBrainz isn't the one that mistags, FreeDB is" does not mean a total logical absolute, and how he's generalizing a few individual experiences (stupidly) to a whole, even though they're highly abnormal. 23:18:34 That would be nice. 23:19:06 ehird, in my experience, freedb works better than this picard at least 23:19:16 Album: [couldn't load album 5f26e407-763b-43f0-904a-0bff110ce3c7] 23:19:19 that makes no sense 23:19:25 maybe they are having some server issue atm? 23:19:27 or something 23:19:37 and that was a rather common cd. Enya 23:20:43 a best selling one iirc 23:21:12 ehird, using "scan" works better it seems than "lookup" 23:21:25 ehird, what is the difference, and why not tell me that that was the issue instead 23:21:36 Because I'm not a Picard expert, I just use it and it works fine. 23:21:37 it still misidentifies some, but not as many 23:21:38 You just break everything. 23:21:50 ehird, do your files have any metadata in them before? 23:22:00 no. 23:22:05 Usually not. 23:22:10 hm 23:22:12 It's been a while, but Picard hasn't changed since then. 23:24:56 ehird, cluster directly works if there is already metadata in the files, not otherwise 23:30:39 "Instead of using the above release-oriented and metadata-dependent lookup; Picard can try and tag your files 1-by-1 based on their AudioFingerprint. If you select a set of files in the left-hand pane and click "Scan", Picard will calculate an AudioFingerprint for your files and query MusicBrainz to find a Track that matches the PUID located from this fingerprint." 23:30:41 right 23:30:52 reading the manual helps a bit, it is still missing one of them though 23:31:05 however. Your misdirections certainly didn't help ehird. 23:31:34 Misdirections. I was trying to fucking mislead you. You really think that don't you? You think I'm some sort of fucking MusicBrainz Picard expert, willingly leading you into the caverns of failure. 23:31:47 unintentional misdirections of course 23:31:59 AN UNINTENTIONAL MISDIRECTION IS NOT! 23:35:53 ehird, the result is the same whatever you call it 23:36:10 No, misdirection has to be willful. 23:36:33 ehird, using easytag + freedb however also adds the year and genre, picard only sets title/artist/album 23:36:41 uh, wrong? 23:36:48 ehird, at least for this example... 23:37:16 ehird, http://musicbrainz.org:80/track/137a39a5-7afa-43ce-94ad-12995f07c6c5.html?tport=8000 23:37:27 that is the track in question 23:37:44 is part of release http://musicbrainz.org/release/7b877a93-d7ce-4467-95b1-c13a194d5e4d.html 23:37:55 correct 23:38:03 ehird, different dates for the different tracks though 23:38:11 some recorded in 1984, some in 1985 23:38:15 Well then. 23:38:25 ehird, according to the cd cover 23:38:34 oh and typing it in manually would have been faster... 23:38:59 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:41:54 ehird, another thing that confused it: a re-release of a LP as a CD with some new bonus tracks. it couldn't decide which cd to pick from... 23:42:11 You live in some alternate universe where musicbrainz is simplistic and inferior to the accurate FreeDB. 23:42:13 it ended up picking from a total of 4 cds. 23:42:26 ehird, it seems to be the case for the music I have... 23:43:28 http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/b964c445-4bbd-485c-8b64-67dc43a32957.html?tport=8000 23:43:29 http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/a30b65a1-89c4-4820-b327-592821eda5a9.html?tport=8000 23:43:31 ehird, compare 23:43:33 what the fuck ^ 23:44:18 ehird, it ends up identifying some tracks from the first, and some from the latter. And they are all from that album yes. But there is only one of them afaik. 23:44:29 You didn't cluster them. 23:44:34 If you did, it would restrict to one release. 23:44:42 ehird, I couldn't because THERE WAS NO PREVIOUS METADATA IN THE FILES. 23:44:46 And then cluster doesn't work 23:44:47 You can cluster manually, retard. 23:44:58 ehird, not according to the docs 23:45:09 AnMaster: Drag, drop. And if it knows what CD it's from, it WILL cluster. 23:45:16 You just have to look it up first. 23:45:18 ehird, right. But those two are the same cd 23:45:21 with two entries 23:45:24 which is retarted 23:45:29 so it is equally well either of them 23:45:37 Not retarded; different release variations. 23:45:59 The latter is Japan, as you can see. 23:46:02 ehird, ? How do you mean 23:46:03 The former is UK, Germany, Canada and US 23:46:09 AnMaster: Look at the bottom. 23:46:15 MusicBrainz separates all discs that differ. 23:46:17 ehird, um. the stuff on the cd is exactly the same right? 23:46:24 No. 23:46:27 ehird, or do you mean the cover differ? 23:46:29 Otherwise the disc ID would be the same. 23:46:46 http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/b964c445-4bbd-485c-8b64-67dc43a32957.html?tport=8000 lists several disc ids 23:46:46 hm 23:46:54 Meh. 23:46:58 They differ, almost certainly. 23:47:07 how odd 23:47:35 ah right, one has a track "Oriel Window" too 23:47:38 mine doesn't 23:47:47 There you go, then. 23:48:04 ehird, still it decided that one of the files belonged to none of the disks. It hated my track 02 23:48:05 :/ 23:48:13 Just cluster 'em and do a lookup. 23:48:21 I dunno how it's breaking so much for you. 23:48:25 ehird, can't cluster before scan 23:48:29 scan is the only one that works 23:48:32 Scan, cluster, then scan. 23:48:34 when there is zero metadata 23:48:37 Or whatever. 23:49:18 ehird, also it still refuses to know that vivaldi cd 23:49:35 Add it to the DB so that MusicBrainz has more bizarrely obscure things. 23:49:37 and the Kraus CDs 23:49:49 which is far from obscure 23:49:58 Then there's been a mistake. 23:50:04 ehird, I would have to learn their format. 23:50:13 ehird, and write it all in manually 23:50:20 easier to just use freedb for that one. 23:50:21 It has a web interface and a specific wiki page for classical music. 23:50:28 ehird, tl;dr 23:50:35 AnMaster: it is also easy not to report bugs. do you really want to be a hypocrite of such high caliber? 23:50:47 ehird, it is easy to report bugs 23:50:54 IME 23:51:09 go through tedious bugzilla registration. fill in 500 fields, most of which you don't know. give detailed description. 23:51:10 vs 23:51:28 go through simple musicbrainz registration. skim over classical music guidelines. fill in just a few fields, which you know by virtue of having the cd. 23:51:30 ehird, once you learn one bugzilla you learn them all mostly 23:51:39 the latter is distinctly simpler. 23:51:43 and most bugzillas has some "wizard" variant of reporting 23:52:03 ehird, vs. use easytag 23:52:22 while it's UI is not very good either, it is not as confusing as that of picard 23:52:27 AnMaster: Then don't ever fucking get holier-than-thou at me when I have a problem, whine, and don't report it as a bug. 23:52:36 ehird, also it knows one of the four volumes of kraus music I have. 23:52:46 hm 23:52:54 You have great skill at ignoring those very lines that show you to be a hypocrite. 23:53:29 ehird, a difference is that all bugzillas have basically the same interface 23:53:37 other bug trackers may not of course.. 23:53:43 anyway, how hard is it to register? 23:53:48 as in, do they want my email? 23:53:50 all musicbrainz have the same interface. 23:53:59 AnMaster: funny that. bugzillas require your email. 23:54:00 ehird, there is only one, so not a valid argument 23:54:02 http://musicbrainz.org/user/register.html 23:54:04 no email required. 23:54:04 ehird, not all, some 23:54:18 ehird, can you tag it from inside picard? 23:54:26 or do you need to use messy web browser? 23:54:31 No. Picard is a program to tag your music library. There is a simple, clean web interface. 23:54:38 ehird, fail. 23:54:40 Guess what? BugZilla has a crufty web interface! 23:54:53 God, and you call my a hypocrite. 23:54:53 ehird, yes it does. I use a command line frontend called bugz 23:54:53 :P 23:54:58 so you still fail 23:55:08 Write a fucking command line interface to MB then, you shithead. 23:55:20 ehird, *beep* *beep* 23:57:46 ehird, funny thing: the times listed on the back of the cd doesn't match the actual track lengths exactly 23:58:01 7:01 says the cd cover, 7:05 says the computer 23:58:07 and so on 23:58:16 Meh. I have CDs that have two tracks' lengths mixed, and some with misspellings of the track titles. 23:58:18 Major label CDs. 23:58:28 All three from the same band; I wonder if it's a secret code. 23:58:30 this is major label too 23:58:40 Naxos is a major label for classical music 23:58:44 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 23:58:48 I mean major major label. 23:58:55 ehird, like? 23:58:56 As in "is mainly known for releasing pop music" label. 23:59:00 oh 23:59:08 Big whatever-n. 23:59:11 don't think I have any of that :P 23:59:18 Nor I. 2009-07-07: 00:00:05 Let's see... Universal Records and Warner Bros. 00:00:16 ok fun, freedb have three entries for this. All have slight misspellings, but the average would be correct... 00:00:24 *has 00:00:39 right 00:00:56 [on Haskell caba[ 00:00:58 cabal] 00:01:01 "HA HA, I thought this article would be about a bunch of crazed fanatics trying to make Ubuntu dependent on Haskell. 00:01:01 Unlike Mono. 00:01:03 http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono" 00:01:07 -!- M0ny has quit. 00:01:09 1/10 F----- would not be trolled again 00:02:17 musicbrainz has nothing on that cd however 00:02:38 hmm... would Ubuntu depending on GHC bring out the same people who get angry at Mono dependencies, I wonder? 00:02:48 or just the people who get angry at anything depending on GHC because it's so hard to compile? 00:03:09 I don't think GHC has any supposed patent problems........................ 00:03:17 Or indeed any corporate interests. 00:03:27 yes, but it's from Microsoft!!!!!!1one1 00:03:29 Unless you think the Industrial Haskell Group is an evil illuminati. 00:03:33 ais523: it's not even that 00:03:41 some of the contributors happen to work for microsoft 00:03:45 ghc isn't even their work 00:03:50 and haskell and ghc have existed long before that 00:03:57 yes, but you know how far people can take this sort of thing 00:04:27 MONO: NOW YOUR FREE SOFTWARE GNU/LINUX OPERATING SYSTEM CAN GET STDS TOO!! 00:04:29 ais523, is ubuntu going to require ghc as part of the core/system/whatever set of packages? 00:04:32 —Stallman 00:04:40 AnMaster: Reading comprehension: 0% 00:05:04 ehird, I wasn't sure if it is was something actually happening, or a "what if" scenario 00:05:29 -!- immibis has joined. 00:05:29 Considering GHC is on 6.8.2 and 6.12 is almost out, I very much doubt it will happen any time soon. 00:05:53 AnMaster: it's very unlikely, Ubuntu hardly ever puts compilers in core 00:05:59 it ships with gcc, but only to compile kernel modules 00:06:04 hm 00:06:10 it's missing all the headers apart from kernel headers in a default install, for instance 00:06:15 ais523: hey, Python is a bytecode compiler! 00:06:40 [[More than 500 staff at Keihin Electric Express Railway are expected to be subjected to daily face scans by "smile police" bosses. ]] 00:06:43 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/5757194/Workers-have-daily-smile-scans.html 00:06:44 ehird: the exception's interps for scripting langs, whether they're implemented in terms of compilers or some other ways 00:06:52 Doubleplusgood! 00:07:00 Hmm, Brave New World might be a more appropriate reference. 00:09:20 * ais523 tries to figure out why 'Yahoo! Mail' writes its own name in single quotes 00:09:27 generally speaking, web pages don't quote their own names... 00:09:33 Because it's only pretending to be Yahoo! Mail? 00:09:46 * immibis wonders why GMail is still in beta after this long 00:09:49 Yahoo! "Mail" 00:10:02 immibis: the google engineers get a cheap laugh out of it? :-) 00:10:13 i remember in 2004, when we did scrabble for an invite, we did! 00:10:16 Maybe you're supposed to shout 'Yahoo! Mail!' when you get mail? 00:10:18 uphill! BOTH WAYS! 00:10:26 at least there's no snow 00:11:40 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 00:13:06 ehird: By "major label", you mean "member of the RIAA". 00:13:20 No, I mean "major label" :P 00:13:24 There's only like 4, and they have a *lot* of subsidiaries. 00:13:27 There are many non-major labels in the RIAA. 00:13:32 hm 00:13:33 really? 00:13:38 pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_labels 00:13:41 there are far more. 00:13:41 Those are subsidiaries of the major 4. 00:13:48 not just subsidaries 00:13:51 those are marked hierarchically 00:13:57 Ah. 00:14:11 I suspect the label on my T-shirt is not a member of the RIAA 00:14:15 but then again, it's hardly major 00:14:20 Oh, hey. That listing is from the RIAA website. 00:14:28 Which is known to be a blatant bunch of lies. 00:14:28 ais523: wait, that's a joke right? :P 00:14:58 Oh, that lists the lies. 00:15:00 Never mind. 00:15:11 ehird: yes, in a way that expresses my annoyance at people redefining words to mean something else 00:15:22 ais523: are you fuckin' serious? :) 00:15:31 damn those kids and their modern musicajig! 00:15:42 The term "record label" originally referred to the circular label in the center of a vinyl record that prominently displayed the manufacturer's name, along with other information.[1] 00:15:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:15:46 so it definitely is directly related. 00:15:59 it's just the elision that annoys me 00:16:13 sort of, it's like taking a specific sort of something, say "high-level language" 00:16:17 and abbreviating it to just "language" 00:16:19 please, ais523. 00:16:20 language evolves. 00:16:24 that's just really misleading, and ridiculous 00:16:26 it's called context 00:16:39 I know; I just don't like languages to have to rely on context 00:16:48 ok, so it's normally obvious what someone means 00:16:53 it still takes more thought to parse, though 00:16:57 ais523: are you serious? even lojban relies on context 00:17:03 okay 00:17:07 you want to exponentially inflate the length of every utterance? 00:17:09 ehird: I'm not saying it shouldn't exist at all, it's useful 00:17:23 I'm just saying that context is probably used a bit more than it ought to be atm 00:17:28 out of 8 cds tried so far, muicbrainz had 4. 00:17:31 so 50% success rate. 00:17:50 freedb had all, but not as nicely formatted track titles and such. 00:17:58 often several variants with misspellings 00:18:03 AnMaster: your experience is highly abnormal. do not generalize it. 00:18:16 so I guess, use musicbrainz if possible, fallback on freedb 00:18:32 how about use musicbrainz or contribute?! 00:18:36 ehird, translation: it isn't pop or mainstream 00:18:41 no 00:18:45 i listen to plenty of obscure music 00:18:49 musicbrainz is incredibly comprehensive 00:18:53 ehird: AnMaster: both of you have a point here 00:18:53 ehird, maybe. If I have time to. 00:19:12 what with the long instructions for formatting the classical music entries 00:19:21 ais523, oh? 00:19:22 i'm terribly curious where this busy AnMaster time goes to. he never seems to do much. 00:19:27 sounds like an excuse to me. 00:19:36 ehird: he may have a life completely separate from this channel 00:19:37 many people do 00:19:42 ehird, atm? Reading up on theory for driving certificate 00:19:50 that is where most of my time goes currently. 00:19:52 ais523: he must carry around a portable IRC client at all times, then. 00:20:12 ehird: no, he has a bouncer 00:20:14 (well, I do too; it's called an iphone :P) 00:20:19 ais523: i'm talking about talking 00:20:36 I often live this "separate life" in the same room 00:20:43 so I'm always within reach of the computer 00:20:43 while talking. on irc. 00:20:47 even when doing other stuff 00:20:50 which is clearly a time that is possible to use musicbrainz too 00:20:55 not always of course, but quite often 00:21:58 ais523, what was this point we both had? 00:22:23 nothing, AnMaster. you're 100% right. 00:22:24 anyway, the more mainstream classical music is indeed on musicbrainz 00:22:25 utterly 00:22:33 AnMaster: ehird's point is that most people don't have trouble, yours is that it's inappropriate for the way you use things 00:22:45 ais523, right. That is what I have been trying to say 00:22:51 yet ehird refuses to accept it. 00:23:02 00:22 ehird: nothing, AnMaster. you're 100% right. 00:22 ehird: utterly 00:23:05 AnMaster: ehird's pedantically making correct but irrelvant statements 00:23:05 wtf? 00:23:12 i'm agreeing absolutely 00:23:25 ehird, didn't you forget the "~" 00:23:29 ehird: I know, but you're doing it in a way that makes you look like you're disagreeing 00:23:33 nope, AnMaster 00:23:37 which can only possibly count as AnMaster-baiting 00:23:44 ehird, I don't believe you. 00:23:56 okay, so if i disagree with you you argue 00:23:58 if I agree with you 00:24:04 you argue about whether I agree with you 00:24:08 err. I lost track there. 00:25:12 anyway, my goal is reached. All the music is tagged, When all 30 cds were done, only 14 needed to be done with freedb due to musicbrainz lacking it. 00:25:16 s/it/them/ 00:25:26 so a bit less than half 00:25:56 I haven't ripped the other ~60 classical music cds yet... 00:26:09 http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/8ypih/this_is_awesome_a_personal_ad_in_graph_form/c0auucv Wow. It's undownmoddable. 00:26:17 ehird: in what way? 00:26:24 ais523: You can't upvote it or downvote it. 00:26:29 why? bug? 00:26:30 There are no buttons. 00:26:32 Who knows? 00:27:36 ehird, there are buttons there? 00:27:44 No up or down vote arrows. 00:27:46 oh not there 00:27:50 it says deleted? 00:27:55 The username is. 00:28:06 ah 00:28:16 maybe that broke it somehow 00:28:28 it usually doesn't 00:28:29 very odd 00:29:18 ehird, other issue with both freedb and musicbrainz 00:29:29 this cd was released with the same disc but two different covers 00:30:03 one in Swedish (NAXOS 8.554777S) and one in English (NAXOS 8.554777) 00:30:06 I have the former 00:30:13 so I want the track titles correct for that ;P 00:30:19 of course, there is no way to solve it. 00:30:23 blame the artist for multi-naming shit 00:30:29 kraftwerk are worse 00:30:29 ehird, translated titles 00:30:33 they made ENTIRE NEW VOCALS for the songs 00:30:37 in both german and english 00:30:41 for the two markets 00:30:48 ehird, but with fingerprinting you can tell them apart 00:30:49 literally, translate the lyrics 00:31:00 AnMaster: i know, but it means there's two albums for every name! 00:31:08 while here the actual cd doesn't differ at all 00:31:26 just it says "Sinfonia i ciss-moll" instead of "Symphony in C-sharp minor" 00:31:28 I wonder if they translated Autobahn. 00:31:56 "We drive drive drive on the motorway" just doesn't have the same ring to it. 00:32:03 "Overture in D minor" vs. "Uvertyr i d-moll" 00:32:30 for music: moll = minor, dur = major 00:32:47 hmm it seems to be "We're driving driving driving on the motorway" 00:32:50 oh and for "sharp" in music we add "iss" or "ess". 00:33:05 well okay it's actually "Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn" but I'm translatin' with the help of the interwebs. 00:37:36 ehird: 00:37:40 "Filling in your e-mail address is completely optional. However if you don't fill it in, the editing features [1] of the MusicBrainz service will not be available to you." 00:37:41 err right 00:37:47 ehird, -_- 00:37:51 Well, fill it in then. 00:37:57 I assume it's to do with the moderation service. 00:38:13 I would advise you to quit complaining, it's not like BugZilla is any better. 00:38:53 ehird, true. 00:39:09 ehird, still tl;dr for that classcial music formatting faq 00:39:30 You have the attention span of a /b/tard. 00:39:46 ehird: Incorrect. 00:39:50 ehird, nah, Slereah is worse 00:39:53 AnMaster: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Classical_Style_Guide is this page really too long for you? 00:39:56 /b/tards have more attention. 00:39:57 it's like 3 fucking screens 00:40:04 3.5, I just measured 00:40:15 The current official one 00:40:15 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/ClassicalStyleGuide 00:40:17 is the same length 00:40:25 It's really simple. 00:40:41 ehird, ~5 screens 00:40:42 :P 00:40:48 I also just checked 00:40:54 Buy a new monitor and an attention span battery. 00:41:02 slightly more than 5 in fact 00:41:08 Don't you read Terry Pratchett? 00:41:17 ehird, I do read that yes. 00:41:20 His books are quite long. Indeed, hundreds of screens. 00:41:26 ehird, pages.... 00:41:27 Yet you cannot manage 5. 00:41:36 AnMaster: durr it is impossible to transfer information from books hurr. 00:41:43 ehird, due to lack of interest. 00:42:23 ehird, what are these "puids"? 00:42:42 Puppies + druids. 00:43:01 And a second in Google gives: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PUID 00:46:03 ehird: wow, you type fast if you can google that fast 00:46:21 Yes, I can. 00:54:43 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:01:03 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:01:39 http://imagechan.com/images/4a1f16e12a8f69e53ef19798b535eeb1.png 01:01:47 bye 01:03:58 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:04:48 ehird, editing on musicbrainz, have you done it yourself? 01:05:11 ehird, if not, are you aware of that it is like picard... completely backwards UI 01:06:59 especially to add releases 01:07:04 I can't figure out how to do it 01:08:28 AnMaster: I think ehird's gone to bed 01:08:34 right 01:14:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:19:58 ehird, for two of those cds the "puid" things were missing from the db, so it couldn't auto identify them 01:20:13 ehird, the other are genuinely missing however 01:21:46 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 01:37:13 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:56:14 -!- coppro has joined. 02:25:55 does anyone know of a good wad editor for windows? 02:28:23 for doom 1 wads 03:25:58 god, stop having talked already 03:30:11 ehird: Gab flubb dirpmoglaaaaaaa tubadinoshçtok. <<< glio eglo flog balg nlo mlog 03:31:43 help help they're speaking in tongues 03:36:39 night 03:36:49 AnMaster: isn't it 4am where you are? 03:36:58 04:36 yes 03:36:59 well, 4:36? 03:37:00 AnMaster: ehird, atm? Reading up on theory for driving certificate <<< i don't believe a human can learn to drive a car as stably as people do. 03:37:03 sleep pattern broken 03:37:08 same here 03:37:14 that's one of the things that make me feel soliptistic 03:37:44 I finally tagged the music perfectly 03:39:31 i finally read the logs 03:39:38 why are you awake at 5 03:39:41 oh 03:39:43 right 03:39:46 you didn't sleep yet 03:39:52 also not 5 03:39:57 because sweden 03:39:59 4 03:40:09 except closer to 5 now 03:41:24 i just woke up, went to sleep at 21:00 03:41:31 or maybe a few seconds later 03:42:06 something like 23-5 would be nice 03:42:06 Go and sleep another 5 hours :P 03:42:26 i slept 15 hours just the other night 03:42:44 also there was a 1 hour sleep without artificial interruption 03:42:54 my brain has issues i think 03:44:44 oklodok! :D 03:44:54 ! :DD 03:46:43 * pikhq starts Project Eulering, in Haskell 03:46:54 main = print $ find (and . (\x -> [x `mod` y == 0 | y <- [1..20]])) [1..] 03:47:02 That's a... Pretty slow piece of code there. 03:47:59 !help 03:47:59 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 03:48:02 !help languages 03:48:02 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 03:48:17 !haskell main = print $ find (and . (\x -> [x `mod` y == 0 | y <- [1..20]])) [1..] 03:48:27 tell me when you surpass me 03:48:39 maybe i'll get interested again 03:48:42 in euler 03:48:47 "find" undefined? 03:48:48 That'll be a while. 03:48:58 Oh, right. import Data.List 03:49:18 i doubt i've played more than a week or two 03:49:29 well i guess if you don't know haskell 03:49:34 that well 03:49:34 ./project5 295.32s user 3.41s system 94% cpu 5:17.56 total 03:49:40 i don't know whether you do 03:49:50 I'm using it as an excuse to code more Haskell. 03:50:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:50:06 Well, returns the right answer (embedded in a Maybe). 03:50:41 a got into it because of this other dude, but i think he's in finnish top10 nowadays, i just didn't know enough math back then 03:52:05 Of course, I could have just done some smarter math. XD 03:52:05 also because python is 100 times slower than most languages, some problems are substantially harder for it 03:53:01 you could've 03:53:14 that's a pen and paper problem 03:54:04 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:54:36 -!- MizardX has joined. 03:54:36 Yes, but it was a Haskell one-liner. 03:55:18 sure, i was just agreeing with you about coulding to have done smarter math. 03:55:38 (sic) 03:56:17 i mean i also agree there's no need to do smarter math, because it's a one-liner anyway 03:56:27 Anyways. 03:56:43 First few have been trivial. 03:57:19 Project 4 was a whole 9 lines. ... Because I needed to define a function to test if something was a palindrome or not. 03:58:59 i think i made some sort of merging generators thing for 4 03:59:45 or maybe i just wrote some sorta one-liner because it's #4, and i'm recalling some other prob 04:01:55 main = print $ last $ sort . nub $ filter (palindromeP . show) $ [x*y | x <- [100..999], y <- [100..999]] 04:02:17 palindromeP is an exercise for the reader, and I'm thinking last $ sort . nub $ filter is dumb. 04:02:34 !help userinterps 04:02:34 userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 04:02:40 !userinterps 04:02:41 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 04:03:07 !swedish The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. 04:03:08 Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:29 !yodawn Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:38 !yodawg Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:39 Unknown function: Z 04:06:48 !userinterps 04:06:48 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 04:07:20 !google test 04:07:21 http://google.com/search?q=test 04:07:30 well that was useful...not... 04:23:17 !warez wat 04:23:17 w4t 04:30:33 !sffffffffedeesh test 04:30:33 test 04:30:45 !sffffffffedeesh Hello people, I am swedish. 04:30:45 Hellu peuple-a, I em svedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:06 !swedish Hellu peuple-a, I em svedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:06 Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:16 !sweedish Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:21 !swedish Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:22 Helluu peuuple-a-a-a, I im sffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:31 !swedish Helluu peuuple-a-a-a, I im sffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:31 Helloooo peoooople-a-a-a-a, I im sffffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:33:51 -!- MizardX- has joined. 04:34:30 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:34:48 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 04:58:19 -!- Associat0r has joined. 05:32:41 immibis: wat 05:43:23 immibis knows his stuff 05:46:41 i think i should glio a pizza 05:53:23 ? 05:55:55 do you disagree? 05:56:12 is it just me or do people throw around the term 'deconstruction' way too much 05:58:01 i haven't noticed 06:02:20 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:02:55 Gracenotes: i dont see people use it hardly at all 06:03:14 are you reading much postmodernist/poststructuralist word and/or work influenced by derrida? 06:04:25 more like in discussions where people are considering whether or not a work deconstructed a genre, people tend to conclude the affirmative a bit too much 06:08:52 I don't see much use in the term personally 06:09:28 well, it does have a use, but people probably dont know what it means, so. 06:11:46 ^run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://google.com/ 06:12:10 damn ignore list 06:13:16 are you on it? 06:13:31 probably 06:13:31 ^echo hi 06:13:33 hi hi 06:13:37 ^run echo hi 06:13:42 yep 06:13:46 err, is ^run even a fungot command? 06:13:46 ais523: suppose i have ( equal? ( convert3 4 5 6) 06:13:54 no its a hackego command 06:13:58 oh wait hackego is ` 06:14:00 * immibis slaps head 06:14:02 in that case, you probably want a different prefix 06:14:08 `run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://googlw.com/ 06:14:09 No output. 06:14:13 `run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://google.com/ 2>&1 06:14:14 --2009-07-07 05:14:13-- http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently \ Location: http://www.google.com/ [following] \ --2009-07-07 05:14:14-- http://www.google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting 06:14:22 that actually worked!? 06:14:29 `run wget --bind-address=123.45.67.89 http://google.com/ 2>&1 06:14:30 --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Cannot assign requested address. \ Retrying. \ \ --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- (try: 2) http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Cannot assign requested address. \ Retrying. \ \ --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- (try: 3) http://google.com/ 06:18:28 * immibis slaps myndzi immibis with an immibissuffix 06:18:29 * myndzi slapmyndziyndzmyndzimmibimyndzimmibissuffix 06:18:29 * immibis slapimmibisyndzimmibismmibimyndzmyndzisuffix 06:29:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:27:53 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 07:41:47 -!- coppro has joined. 07:43:27 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/sevenfold.mid 07:43:51 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:45:04 -!- coppro has joined. 07:48:10 i like it, but it kinda hurts my ears 07:48:31 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:48:59 -!- coppro has joined. 07:49:03 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:50:15 -!- coppro has joined. 07:56:21 subroles. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:26:22 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 08:31:48 -!- M0ny has joined. 08:51:13 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:24:29 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:44:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:55:29 is it possible to have a multi line TextView in a TableRow? 09:55:32 err sorry 09:55:40 -!- calamari has left (?). 09:55:56 you should be sorry 09:58:24 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:01:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:01:17 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 10:26:19 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:28:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:29:49 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 10:40:32 -!- immibis has quit ("A day without sunshine is like .... night"). 11:07:16 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:12:20 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:54:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:17:31 that was awful, IWC 12:26:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:45:00 -!- M0ny has quit. 12:54:48 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 13:10:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:20:07 ehird, I had a series of 30 classical music cds based on theme, freedb has about 2/3 of them, musicbrainz has none. Oh and I'm not going to rip these, and it seems picard can't work directly from the cd. So I guess I can't add them. 13:20:29 oh and a few other cds I'm not going to rip that it is lacking. 13:26:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 13:38:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 13:39:10 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:48:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:48:45 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 13:51:05 -!- nice_ has joined. 13:52:06 -!- nice_ has changed nick to nice_ka. 13:53:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:53:57 -!- nice_ka has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 13:54:26 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 13:56:53 -!- MizardX- has joined. 13:56:53 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:57:26 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 14:05:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has changed nick to Wamanuz. 14:06:57 -!- Wamanuz has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 14:13:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:57:10 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 15:17:51 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:56:02 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 15:56:55 "Richard Stallman wrote emacs, gcc, gdb, glibc and the GPL. That is all." Wow, he's right. I guess we can't all be perfect. :-P 15:57:04 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 15:57:45 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:57:55 -!- MizardX has joined. 15:57:56 -!- Pthing has joined. 16:04:37 -!- darthnuri has joined. 16:07:45 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:25:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:29:24 -!- darthnuri has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:41:34 Project Euler is fun. Especially when you use the single most naive algorithms possible. 16:41:51 For prime factorization. 16:41:57 ;) 16:43:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:47:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:48:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:50:17 -!- coppro has joined. 17:03:58 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:16:31 -!- inurinternet has joined. 17:41:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:00:32 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 18:19:55 -!- inurinternet has joined. 18:24:26 -!- M0ny has joined. 18:28:32 -!- darthnuri has joined. 18:33:36 pikhq, heh 18:34:27 pikhq, what is the most naive one? I can think of at least two naive ones. Plus a number of less naive ones. Oh and some ones that passed "naive" and went to "intentionally stupid and silly" 18:35:22 AnMaster: Take the list of all primes less than half of n, check and see if those are factors. 18:35:31 ah.. 18:36:24 the bloody stupid one would be "try every possible combination of above mentioned primes", trying first using only using two primes, then if no match found, try again with three and so on 18:36:44 pikhq, how do you like that one? :) 18:37:13 Wow. 18:38:36 pikhq, like: foreach prime X < N/2 { foreach prime Y < N/2 { if (Y*X == N) return X,Y; } } 18:38:46 adapt to work for Z and so on 18:39:12 could be done by making it a list of n-tuples 18:39:17 and having a function combine 18:39:26 taking two lists, generating every possible combination 18:39:26 forall i in n: prime(i); product l = n; 18:39:27 like: 18:39:33 err 18:39:34 forall i in l: prime(i); product l = n; 18:40:53 combine([2,7], [2,7]) -> [{2,2},{2,7},{7,2},{7,7}] 18:41:18 except the input lists would already have such tuples 18:41:57 combine([2,7], [{2,2},{2,7},{7,2},{7,7}]) -> [{2,2,2},{2,2,7},{2,7,2},{2,7,7},{7,2,2},{7,2,7},{7,7,2},{7,7,7}] 18:42:03 if I'm not wrong 18:42:31 then multiply all the elements in each tuple and check if they match N 18:42:49 depends on what combine is 18:43:01 oklodok, the function described above 18:43:10 ... 18:43:16 and what i mean is, [{2, {2, 2}}, ... 18:43:25 usually works that way in math tho 18:43:45 oklodok, multiplication is commutative so it doesn't matter in this case. 18:43:47 also j has a few special cased things that lift tuples like that 18:44:10 and I was using erlang syntax for lists and tuples 18:44:41 blah 18:44:59 "blah"? 18:45:39 pikhq, what language does one write the solutions in? 18:45:44 for project euler 18:46:04 or do you just provide the answer? 18:46:12 Haskell. 18:46:19 pikhq, no other ones possible? 18:46:29 ... No, I mean I'm writing them in Haskell. 18:46:37 You just provide the answer. 18:46:40 ah ok 18:46:59 http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/07/0024224/Dont-Copy-That-Floppy-Gets-a-Sequel 18:49:01 crazy 18:49:05 There was a recent anti-piracy parody thing in that "The IT Crowd" TV series; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4 18:50:09 AnMaster: don't know why i said blah, my point was just combine must be somewhat smart to know when to lift tuples like that, but assuming you were just doing math in erlang notation, that's not important. 18:50:19 *just that 18:50:46 also i wanted to note j does that kinda lifting, although i don't remember what operators. 18:50:53 "Recent" as in 2-3 years old, yes 18:51:08 oklodok, note that combine is an invented function here 18:51:14 for this special purpose 18:51:22 AnMaster: invented name for cartesian product yes 18:51:37 oklodok, invented function for it yes for this purpose. 18:52:08 there are better ways to do that in erlang iirc. Using list comprehensions comes to mind. 18:52:10 Deewiant: Recent in the sense that they've recently started showing that thing in Finnish TV. Or so I hear, anyway; we don't have one. 18:52:24 Oh, I haven't heard of that. 18:52:31 why would they start showing it 18:52:32 "In Finland, the show is broadcast by Yle TV2 since April 2009." 18:52:34 it's stupid 18:52:38 I saw it back 2-3 years ago. 18:52:54 And found it partially reasonably amusing 18:53:02 well me too 18:53:23 i'm just kinda tired of watching nerd humor without nerd content 18:53:47 Would you watch a "The #esoteric Crowd" TV series? 18:54:09 I wouldn't 18:54:11 would be scary 18:54:19 well i watch the it crowd. 18:54:32 how accurate is it? 18:54:41 but yes esocrowd would probably be awesome 18:54:43 accurate? 18:54:44 I mean, when it comes to technical details 18:54:48 err 18:54:51 well there's this scene 18:55:02 where the nerd tells the chick about his code 18:55:18 there's a buzz so you don't hear what he says. 18:55:19 I've seen one (1) episode, and it didn't really go into technical details at all. It's more about the people, I guess. 18:55:28 what I mean is, is it technobable or does the stuff make sense? 18:55:44 fizzie, boring 18:55:46 Not technobabble. 18:56:02 Deewiant, and this is on TV? You are joking right? 18:56:16 Yes, no. 18:56:33 Deewiant, do you see any scrolling text on the face of a person in front of a computer? 18:56:43 from the reflecting light 18:56:48 if so it is disqualified 18:57:09 monitors are not projectors! 18:57:10 I doubt it, they don't spend much time sitting in front of their computers. 18:57:18 Deewiant, then what on earth is the point? 18:57:29 They're tech support. 18:57:30 Yes, it doesn't need technobabble when there's no techno to babble about. 18:57:45 fizzie, boring then 18:58:04 Deewiant, are the errors described actually plausible? 18:58:08 One of them always answers the phone with "IT; have you tried turning it off and then on again" 18:58:15 heh 18:58:31 i like the manager dude 18:58:37 Didn't they have an answering machine thing for the phone that suggested rebooting and the normal stuff? 18:58:46 Ah right, that came later 18:58:47 all other characters are, well, very british. 18:58:55 /other/? 18:59:07 I found the manager quite British as well. 18:59:47 by british character i mean the kind you find in british sitcoms, bad :) 18:59:55 i'm not sure why i think that. 19:00:01 That's what I meant too, apart from the bad 19:00:07 maybe i've watched the wrong wshows 19:00:10 oh 19:00:20 well he has the scrubs like insane quality. 19:00:22 *shows 19:00:30 i love scrubs. 19:00:56 if there is one thing I hate it is technobable when you know the stuff they are talking about. 19:00:58 ...Once I learnt enough physics I stopped watching Star Trek... 19:00:59 i like character humor, and complex humor 19:01:18 i haven't seen much of the latter during my lifetime 19:01:34 Complex number humor; there's a definite lack of that. 19:01:47 fizzie, I'm sure it has been done... 19:01:51 there's not much complex number humor that isn't just math related puns 19:02:06 math related puns are just puns, and puns are never funny 19:02:17 Z and X walked to a bar; but they're not orderable! 19:02:19 oklodok, there isn't much math humour that isn't puns... 19:02:37 i was told that earlier on #math 19:02:44 or not- 19:02:44 math 19:02:52 oklodok, oh? I was just speaking out of experience... 19:02:56 anyway, that's true. 19:03:05 anyway puns can be fun 19:03:12 no they can't 19:03:23 also i heard a math joke that wasn't a pun just after someone told me that 19:03:32 oklodok, and what was that joke? 19:03:51 SGI's IRIX accelerated-math library thing (for FFTs and such) has a data type "complex" for pairs of single-precision floats, but the name for the double-precision variant is the hilarious "zomplex". 19:04:10 zomplex a, b; 19:04:16 fizzie, err, why is that hilarious? 19:04:16 it was about a branch of math that has very inexact bounds, something about a lecturer saying he didn't remember exactly, but something happened less than 10^10^10^10 years ago. 19:04:29 I don't know why, it just is. 19:04:37 not that the name makes any sense 19:04:39 It's like some sort of zombie-complex. 19:05:02 is there any explanation of the name? 19:05:14 fizzie, zombies aren't really very funny 19:05:14 AnMaster: did you get the joke? 19:05:29 Zombies can be very funny 19:05:29 not the 100rd (th?) time at least 19:05:34 Watch Shaun of the Dead sometime 19:05:37 oklodok, *reads* 19:05:57 i didn't actually tell the joke, my interest in jokes is mostly theoretical 19:06:07 i can look it up if you can't laugh at it from that 19:06:14 oklodok, well... Assuming the current estimate of the age of the universe... 19:06:40 clearly he used something less exact than that. 19:07:02 i don't see how that matters, the gist of the joke is it doesn't matter in whatever branch the lecturer does either 19:07:20 00:04 AnMaster: ehird, editing on musicbrainz, have you done it yourself? 19:07:20 yes. 19:07:37 the branch was named after a name of some sort, and i've never heard of it, so i'd need to read from the logs 19:07:40 12:20 AnMaster: ehird, I had a series of 30 classical music cds based on theme, freedb has about 2/3 of them, musicbrainz has none. Oh and I'm not going to rip these, and it seems picard can't work directly from the cd. So I guess I can't add them. 19:07:42 12:20 AnMaster: oh and a few other cds I'm not going to rip that it is lacking. 19:07:44 you keep talking. are you fallaciously assuming I give a shit? 19:07:47 ehird, adding cds with different composers for different tracks = pain 19:08:04 ehird, compilations with themes 19:08:24 AnMaster: It's twice the fun when you need to add almost every composer, as I have had to do in the past. 19:08:25 17:49 fizzie: There was a recent anti-piracy parody thing in that "The IT Crowd" TV series; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4 19:08:31 is that the "you wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet"? 19:08:34 can't view in this country 19:08:35 ehird: Yes. 19:08:36 anyway that's ancient. 19:08:36 As well as the label that published the CD. 19:08:39 ehird, it is 19:08:45 ehird, read the rest of the log 19:08:54 17:52 fizzie: Deewiant: Recent in the sense that they've recently started showing that thing in Finnish TV. Or so I hear, anyway; we don't have one. 19:09:01 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694 19:09:10 I think the name is because LAPACK's six-letter (for Fortran compatibility) function names start with a single-character data-type prefix; S = float, D = double, C = single-precision complex, Z = double-precision complex. 19:09:28 Of course that's a bit of a non-answer, because it doesn't explain why lapack chose Z there. 19:09:32 AnMaster: It's twice the fun when you need to add almost every composer, as I have had to do in the past. <-- yes I had a few of that. I just gave up. Too much work. And some said "Unknown, but probably Haydn or Mozart" 19:09:39 Deewiant, that is where I gave up 19:10:01 17:55 AnMaster: what I mean is, is it technobable or does the stuff make sense? 19:10:01 Moss: [picks up phone] Hello, IT? Yah-hah? Have you tried forcing an expected reboot? You see the driver hooks the function by patching the system call table, so it's not safe to unload it unless another thread's about to jump in there and do its stuff, and you don't want to end up in the middle of invalid memory. 19:10:05 [laughs] 19:10:07 Moss: Hello? 19:10:09 correct apart from being the wrong way around./ 19:10:40 ehird, that kind of could make sense assuming windows NT's design 19:10:47 :-) I didn't remember that one 19:10:49 * AnMaster tries to remember how system calls worked 19:10:59 yes I think it is possibly accurate 19:11:12 AnMaster: it's fairly sane OS design. 19:11:28 I remember there was/is a table you could patch to install rootkits. Mentioned on sysinternals iirc... 19:11:29 (the correction is s/unless/if/) 19:11:44 not sure if it was an internal table, or the system call one. 19:11:57 was just about to complain about unless 19:12:04 19:10 ehird: correct apart from being the wrong way around./ 19:12:21 um 19:12:25 could work still 19:12:30 no 19:12:31 just use CMPXCHG 19:12:32 :P 19:12:37 to make it lockless 19:12:39 unloading it is only safe if you're about to jump to it? 19:12:45 ehird, ah not that 19:12:48 THAT'S what will end you in the middle of garbage memory... 19:12:58 I meant, could be make to work even if something is jumping to it 19:13:05 ata1: hard resetting link 19:13:18 That is cause for concern, I think. 19:13:27 It happens 19:13:29 oh man, that sequel is official 19:13:45 "A smug teen who's downloading files from 'Pirates Palace' and 'Tune Weasel' finds his world turned upside down when automatic weapons-toting government agents break down the door and take his Mom away in handcuffs. The teen finds himself in a prison jumpsuit forced to tattoo shirtless adult inmates who eventually turn on him, physically attack him, and make him run for his life back to his jail cell." 19:13:46 just use a CAS instruction (CMPXCHG assuming x86), to swap it with the original function used 19:14:01 it sounds more like a subversive ad for anarchism than against piracy 19:14:06 then it doesn't matter if something is about to jump to it 19:14:25 pikhq, might be 19:14:31 y'know what this has acheived? 19:14:33 achieved 19:14:38 i wanna go pirate a bunch of software i don't want to use 19:14:47 and delete it immediately 19:14:49 and get sued. 19:15:02 oh? 19:15:13 I'm running a smartctl test. 19:15:28 i'm not giving them the money they rightfully should own as I would if I bought it then stomped on the disc 19:15:59 wait, does it have the same mc? :D 19:16:22 In a flashback, at least; watching it. 19:16:31 oklodok, there are some non-puns in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_joke below the pun section 19:16:38 see "Stereotypes of mathematicians" 19:16:49 LOL at the prisoners' tattoos. 19:16:58 i'm also not that interested in mathematician jokes 19:16:59 Deewiant, ? 19:17:11 hahahahahah this must be a parody 19:17:22 AnMaster: See /. link above, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHaAFqoVLtI for the lazy. 19:17:32 stereotype jokes are almost as easy as puns 19:17:54 Deewiant: omg it's the same mc 19:17:59 Yep, it is 19:18:16 sounds like what what in the butt 19:18:19 don't copy that, in the butt 19:18:31 LOL at the crappy-looking and -sounding Klingons 19:18:39 This is really weak :-D 19:19:04 to copy data is a great dishonour? fucking L[123] caches and RAM! 19:19:14 they should be illegal! (well, they were somewhere iirc :)) 19:19:22 ehird, wasn't it in UK? 19:19:26 no 19:19:29 hm ok 19:20:08 well, that was delightfully bullshit 19:20:18 lol, they're using Joomla on their website 19:20:21 last I checked, it was open source 19:20:35 i suspect them of copying it. 19:21:03 *Joomla!; pedanticity must be applied even in the face of obnoxious exclamation marks 19:21:34 I can't watch it, it is just too bad. 19:21:44 "I bet if I showed this new video to the average 12 year old, they'd think it was some kind of internet sketch comedy thing." 19:21:51 it actually is exactly like that 19:22:01 if it wasn't on the SIIA website, I'd be laughin' 19:22:01 ehird, isn't it? 19:22:07 AnMaster: no, it's real 19:22:21 ehird: Joomla! is GPL. ;) 19:22:29 pikhq: "Copying data is a great dishonor." 19:22:34 I rest my case. 19:22:37 Hah. 19:22:47 honour* 19:22:50 You know it's true because fake Klingons (…is there another kind?) said it. 19:23:56 Deewiant: probably not the same actor; since the actor is like CEO of some enterprisey bullshit computer company 19:24:46 Beats me 19:25:41 what's don't copy that floppy exactly? 19:25:56 about that "patching system call table" quote... were there more like that in that series? 19:25:57 oklodok: you have to watch it. to experience it. 19:25:59 Something also available on youtube 19:26:00 ehird, ^ 19:26:05 AnMaster: dunno, I only watched a few episodes. 19:26:08 An early 90s anti-piracy video 19:26:11 just torrent the damn thing and see :P 19:26:17 Deewiant: yes, but it takes about an hours to download something with my conn 19:26:20 *hour 19:26:46 (it's okay, we brits paid for it with our yearly payment to the WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE SO PAY UP YOUR DAMN TV LICENSE commission) 19:26:58 10 minutes of fairly heavily compressed video shouldn't take /that/ long 19:27:05 Unless they're bigger than I think 19:27:19 Deewiant: they are, but it can play before downloading it all, so 19:27:20 takes 10 minutes to download a midi 19:27:31 What are you on, 1200 baud? 19:27:33 some normal webpages time out 19:27:34 (apparently the tv licensing people just track who has a TV, then harass anyone who doesn't have one) 19:27:50 Webpages go up to megabytes these days, that doesn't surprise me 19:27:51 no i just have µtorrent on, and for some reason it kills http 19:27:53 (we saw in your window that you have a tv and are watching it and are not paying us!* *note: we didn't actually look) 19:28:02 oklodok: because your connection is saturated 19:28:04 Well yeah, utorrent helps 19:28:05 rate-limit utorrent. 19:28:12 Deewiant: i've never seen a 1mb webpage 19:28:23 ehird: Turn off adblock. 19:28:26 And noscript. 19:28:41 Deewiant: Mu; I don't use them. 19:28:50 Anyway, that wouldn't timeout the whole page. 19:28:52 Just certain elements. 19:29:00 If it's in a table it'll timeout the whole thing. 19:29:04 oklodok: link to that sevenfold glio song thing? saw it in the logs ages ago. 19:29:12 Deewiant: not eg an 19:29:20 If it's in a table it'll timeout the whole thing. <-- huh? 19:29:29 ehird: sure, that's kind of a nobrainer, i just don't want to limit it, i prefer not using the net. 19:29:31 ehird: No? Don't you need to know the size before you can flow it? 19:29:37 sevenfold glio song? 19:29:40 you mean the midi? 19:29:43 Deewiant: modern browsers don't have that. 19:29:43 sevenfold.mid 19:29:44 oklodok: yeah 19:29:49 Deewiant: netscape 4, I think, did that. 19:29:53 they just reflow. 19:30:01 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/sevenfold.mid 19:30:02 also, :P 19:30:13 I recall people complaining about as recently as in Phoenix 19:30:19 Deewiant: weird 19:30:21 oklodok: beautiful 19:30:22 Granted, that's still a while ago 19:30:41 "Their marketing department didn't even notice that they made an unauthorized reproduction and depiction of a well known anime character in their video..." —/. 19:30:51 But anyway, it was quite obviously noticeable that tables didn't render the way divs did 19:31:01 oklodok: i like the guitar/drums part 19:31:07 ehird: it's probably my only "published" piece that has completely random parts. 19:31:07 very nice sandwiched with the noise. 19:31:14 well 19:31:15 not parts 19:31:22 but at least subparts. 19:31:31 oklodok: i wonder if it's possible to play this irl 19:31:35 i'm thinking the drums might be a bit hard. 19:31:44 usually the stuff people hear as noise in my songs is 100% thought through 19:32:45 world record is 80 bps 19:32:45 anicecreamymelody goes well after sevenfold. 19:32:46 iirc 19:32:48 for drums 19:33:09 ehird: if you want to hear, i do have some actual music too. 19:33:17 oklodok: that's just hitting shit a lot though 19:33:27 also you have to play the rhythmical part straight afterwards 19:33:34 oklodok: you mean the metal stuff? 19:33:41 i listened to that ages ago, didn't really like it. 19:33:43 err well yes most of it 19:33:53 what's the rest 19:33:57 you listened to the band stuff? 19:34:02 yeah 19:34:05 months and months ago. 19:34:07 both bands? 19:34:15 yes, they sounded mostly identical ;P 19:34:16 *:P 19:34:24 oh 19:34:36 weird. 19:34:43 well i'm not really a metal guy you know? 19:34:47 all sorta sounds the same. 19:34:51 right, i guess. 19:34:55 etudes, i haven't seen etudes before 19:35:12 old piano etudes of mine 19:35:25 well i dunno what these .gt[45]s are i guess i could download the midi archive 19:35:35 anyway most of my songs are just on .mid 19:35:41 but, they are mostly metal 19:35:48 well metal .mid is okay 19:35:48 i only have like 10 or so non-metal songs 19:35:57 the music is fine, i just don't like how it sounds when performed 19:36:01 oklodok, ehird: for drums, couldn't you use several people, playing on a round-robin schedule? 19:36:01 on the computer that is 19:36:07 to increase number of beats 19:36:08 AnMaster: have you listened to it? 19:36:20 ehird, not yet, trying to find my headphones... 19:36:22 it could work if you have instant, infinite communication and comprehension between everyone. 19:36:28 AnMaster: you won't like it :D 19:36:41 oklodok: well linky to mids? 19:36:47 well 19:37:00 i can privately up some stuff for you, but i don't like distributing them. 19:37:05 kayy 19:37:10 i'll only give them to 5000 people max 19:37:16 :) 19:37:20 maybe 50,000 19:37:22 if it's a good day 19:37:40 oh 50,000? then we have a problem. 19:37:49 7,000 19:37:59 hmm 19:38:02 It should be over 9000 19:38:05 that's find 19:38:06 *fine 19:38:28 9,000 + epsilon 19:38:36 9,000 + ε 19:39:08 Which reminds me, can anybody explain why 8000 got translated to 9000 19:39:14 oklodok, I would like a copy too. 19:39:26 Deewiant, hm? I thought 9000 was some meme 19:39:40 8000 I never heard of as a meme 19:39:50 AnMaster: it was 8000 in the original japanese 19:39:53 they translated it to 9000. 19:40:01 I don't even know where the meme is from 19:40:04 you would now? 19:40:04 but from what you said 19:40:05 dragon ball z. 19:40:08 I guess manga/anime 19:40:10 oklodok: i inferred from Deewiant 19:40:18 it's clearly because americans are 1,000 better, anyway 19:40:20 It's from an episode of Dragonball Z where Vegeta says it angrily. 19:40:36 and this "dragonball z", is it manga or anime? 19:40:46 Manga doesn't come in episodes. 19:40:48 most animes are also mangae.. 19:40:51 And it's a "power level" which should be over 9000. 19:40:54 s/\.\././ 19:41:00 fizzie: shouldn't be. 19:41:03 Dragonball Z is based on the Dragonball manga, though, where it was also 8000. 19:41:07 Deewiant, ok. I'm not an expert on such stuff. 19:41:09 the main line is expressing shock at said fact. 19:41:18 And in the new Dragonball Kai which is sort of a remake of Dragonball Z it was also 8000. 19:41:19 admittedly by Bad Guy(TM) 19:41:24 i don't actually know anything about dragonball 19:41:31 i'm just good at collecting info randomly and inferring. 19:41:49 Erzyklopedia dramatica has the dialogue, so: 19:41:50 Nappa: "VEGETA! What does the scouter say about his power level?" 19:41:50 Vegeta: "IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!" *crushes scouter* 19:41:50 Nappa: WHAT, NINE THOUSAND!? 19:41:58 shush 19:41:59 qntm's is better 19:42:03 it has a total transcript 19:42:10 qntm? 19:42:16 sam hughes 19:42:17 quantum nano technology manager? 19:42:22 quantum 19:42:28 http://qntm.org/?9000 19:43:02 Heh, that's a fun. 19:43:42 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:44:53 The original is quite clearly "hassen ijou da". 19:45:22 Hussein is your dad. 19:45:37 DBKai's version of it is evidently up at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9oVNvRSlVk for the interested. 19:45:49 The relevant phrase being at 0:34 or thereabouts. 19:45:53 My motherboard is starting to give up the ghost. YAY. 19:46:06 Deewiant: You're obsessed with either over 9000 or Dragonball. 19:46:10 Apparently nine thousand isn't even all that much nowadays. (Source: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerLevels ) 19:46:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:46:25 Deewiant: also, how is that a remake? it looks exactly the same. 19:46:40 oh. says hd remastered. 19:46:57 And they removed some scenes to make it shorter and more in line with the manga. 19:48:26 I'm mostly obsessed with accuracy. Your 1000s just reminded me. But I do know quite a bit more about Dragonball than most. 19:48:42 And you admit that? 19:48:54 I know a bit more about child pornography than most. 19:48:58 I know a bit more about rape techniques than most. 19:49:05 I know a bit more about assassinating the president than most. 19:49:24 I don't mind admitting I have esoteric knowledge. Especially on #esoteric. 19:49:32 …strangely, while I have no qualms about putting those in that template, I can't bring myself to put in things like "Dragonball" 19:49:37 (I tried. My hands seize up.) 19:50:31 I wish ais523 logread. 19:50:36 "One thing I found puzzling was that the Brits consistently apologized for and/or denigrated Birmingham." 19:50:41 —Bruce Eckel, http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=261930 19:52:03 ehird, what other things 'like "Dragonball"' 19:52:09 some examples? 19:52:25 "Scat porn" works. 19:52:31 ah 19:52:36 Aduberatatatado! 19:52:38 What's so bad about Dragonball vis-à-vis child porn anyway 19:52:39 Abababababababada 19:52:46 Rutanaloobeedoobeedoo 19:52:47 Deewiant, was wondering that too 19:52:51 i've fairly sure i know more than most about all of those. 19:52:54 *i'm 19:52:54 Deewiant: Aren't they synonyms anyway?-) 19:53:00 ehird, what about inserting C++ there? 19:53:04 it was re 19:48 fizzie: And you admit that? 19:53:06 can you manage it? 19:53:11 Not quite, no. In fact, not at all. :-P 19:53:21 AnMaster: as much as it pains me to admit it, it's possible I'm going to willingly use C++ for something 19:53:31 Odd. Why? 19:53:40 what Deewiant said... 19:54:07 also what about "Plain English"? I think it would be true too. Sadly. 19:54:15 Deewiant: game engine type stuff; lots of OOP stuff so not e.g. C, but needs a lot of assured speed and control over purity, so not e.g. Haskell 19:54:25 *cough*D*cough* 19:54:34 But yeah, toolchain etc. 19:54:35 Deewiant: i'd rather vomit 19:54:37 :p 19:54:51 gc would be quite nice but it's not really vital so 19:55:00 ehird, are you going to work on a game engine? You know there are many good open source 3D engines already that can handle both directx and opengl? 19:55:02 i am going to add a custom scripting language to it so i might just add refcounting to my object infrastructure 19:55:07 irrlight comes to mind 19:55:08 Deewiant: Wasn't there some sort of censorship thing about DBZ Finnish translation release? Or was it some other manga thing? 19:55:13 AnMaster: what fun's that? 19:55:18 what was the other one 19:55:18 i want something i can tweak 19:55:22 ehird: *cough* Haskell speed ~= C speed. 19:55:23 crystalspace or something like that 19:55:33 :P 19:55:36 fizzie: Possibly... rings a bell but I can't remember any details 19:55:38 pikhq: under ideal circumstances; but I also need a ton of libraries for shit Haskell doesn't really have a lot of 19:55:42 glut and the like 19:55:46 i'd be in IO 90% of the time anyway 19:55:52 ehird, could you insert "D" there instead of "C++"? ;P 19:55:55 ... Doesn't Haskell have glut bindings? 19:55:55 ehird: FFI (+ C/C++ bridges) 19:55:58 since a whole lot of game logic will be in the scripting language anyway 19:56:03 pikhq: Yes, it does. 19:56:04 I know I saw one in Hackage. 19:56:12 19:55 AnMaster: ehird, could you insert "D" there instead of "C++"? ;P 19:56:12 → 19:56:14 19:54 Deewiant: *cough*D*cough* 19:56:16 19:54 Deewiant: But yeah, toolchain etc. 19:56:18 19:54 ehird: Deewiant: i'd rather vomit 19:56:19 ehird, cya 19:56:20 I hate D as a language, also. 19:56:22 More than C++. 19:56:26 → as in transition 19:56:28 erlang has opengl bindings btw. Just in case anyone wants it... 19:56:29 Odd. Why? 19:56:42 ehird: So, I am actually getting that new system. 19:56:42 there is even a 3D editor using them 19:56:45 Deewiant: it's a gigantic hodgepodge 19:56:50 Despite being a hodgepodgey mess I find it cleaner than C++. 19:56:50 pikhq: THE $80K ONE? AWESOME! 19:56:51 :-) 19:56:52 :p 19:56:53 polygon only (no NURBS) 19:56:59 ehird: No. 19:57:02 ehird: I mean, really. C++ isn't? 19:57:14 Deewiant: i'm gonna be conservative in my use of C++ features, and at least it's a mess with a good toolchain 19:57:29 ehird, that's true 19:57:34 the D toolchain definitely sucks 19:57:44 even Deewiant has to admit that 19:57:53 I did 19:58:10 It's a royal bitch to get set up, yes. 19:58:12 ehird, try inserting asm then 19:58:19 AnMaster: wat 19:58:23 ... 19:58:31 I know a bit more about assembler than most. 19:58:35 like that 19:58:47 ah 19:58:50 well i do 19:58:56 more than most people in the world 19:58:56 ah ok 19:59:08 probably more than most people who have heard what assembly is 19:59:17 but not more than most people who've written a program in asm 19:59:30 pikhq: Once you've done it a few times it's not really much trouble at all, though. (On *nix. Windows is always a pain, but then it is so for almost any language.) 19:59:43 ehird, you couldn't bring yourself to insert the phrase "D" there? Nor "dragonball"? What about other things on D? Maybe you have some sort of phobia against the letter D in that context? 19:59:55 oh, that's what you meant? 20:00:01 ehird, yes 20:00:03 i thought "remove C++ from the project and insert D" 20:00:07 ah 20:00:12 Deewiant: It's a consistent bitch on x86_64. 20:00:26 Since it *building* is a a gamble. 20:00:26 pikhq: How so? 20:00:30 I'm on x86-64. 20:00:30 Deewiant, remember that "wrong file, right line number" in debug info? 20:00:32 I rest my case. 20:00:38 What case? 20:00:45 ... 20:00:51 about toolchain being shit 20:00:54 Random remarks don't constitute a case 20:01:02 I thought we'd settled that already 20:01:04 Yes, it is shit 20:01:17 haha, gmail isn't beta any more 20:01:20 who was remarking on that yesterday? 20:01:41 pikhq: LDC builds quite cleanly on x86-64. 20:02:06 DMD and co I run in a 32-bit chroot like other 32-bit stuff. 20:04:40 i like inventing practical esolangs. 20:08:55 ehird, hm? examples? 20:09:02 befunge is probably one of the most practical ones 20:09:10 also make sure you don't stray into DSLs 20:09:14 as in, an odd language designed for a practical purpose. 20:09:27 a DSL out of context can easily look like an esolang and vice verse. 20:09:34 uhh 20:09:35 no. 20:09:40 practical eoslangs that is 20:09:48 nothing related 20:10:53 ehird, sed is a special purpose language. If you never seen it before and then see an example of it used to implement a calculator (+-/* and square root) you would probably think "this is an esolang" 20:11:02 that is what I meant 20:11:21 welllll 20:11:21 sure 20:11:41 of course this doesn't apply to for example malbolge, you can't mistake it as a dsl 20:12:04 but some of those rewriting ones could probably be mistaken unless I misremember 20:12:08 Thue maybe? 20:12:15 i wonder if anyone uses the extension .c++ 20:12:21 nobody seems to, prolly cause of windows 20:12:25 ehird, I have seen that 20:12:31 really? where? 20:12:31 some open source project 20:12:33 + should work on windows 20:12:39 Deewiant: it's invalid in filenames isnt it 20:12:42 *isn't 20:12:47 ehird, a year or two ago at least. Don't remember which open source project 20:12:56 ehird: My statement was implying that I don't think it is. 20:12:58 wikipedia's [[C++]] doesn't cover the file extension issue 20:13:01 what a travesty 20:13:03 ehird, .C .cc .CC .cxx are more common though 20:13:03 It might be. 20:13:04 Deewiant: hmm kay 20:13:07 the former one is nasty 20:13:10 pretty sure it's invalid 20:13:11 AnMaster: see your pm btw. 20:13:17 there was both foo.c and foo.C 20:13:21 in the same directory 20:13:23 AnMaster: the former one sucks on case insensitive filesystems like HFS :p 20:13:25 *HFS+ 20:13:26 AnMaster: agh! 20:13:29 i hate it when that happens 20:13:31 can't unpack ;( 20:13:34 *:( 20:13:38 AnMaster: .cpp is quite common 20:13:39 ehird, can't you manually fix it 20:13:40 .cxx isn't 20:13:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_name doesn't appear to mention +. 20:13:41 or tell me here that you won't answer in pm 20:13:42 ehird, right 20:13:49 .cc / .cpp > .cxx i would say for popularity 20:13:53 AnMaster: also, i can but it's a pain 20:14:16 I'd say .cpp >> .cc > .cxx 20:14:22 yeah prolly 20:14:26 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 20:14:29 ehird, it should be used more IMO 20:14:35 .cxx is ugly. 20:14:36 I use .cc personally 20:14:37 x isn't +. 20:14:41 doesn't POSIX mandate case sensitive file systems 20:14:47 AnMaster: i don't think so. 20:14:51 hm 20:15:01 i'd say, ideally it'd be .c++, failing that, prolly .cpp, then .cc, then .cxx 20:15:08 .c++ and .cpp are logical, .cc, .cxx and .C aren't 20:15:14 .cc seems quite common 20:15:20 also, we need to take into account headers 20:15:23 .cpp is ugly just like .cxx 20:15:23 i've never seen .hh 20:15:30 people just use .h or .hpp 20:15:30 I use .hh also 20:15:31 ehird, I have seen .hh 20:15:32 or .hxx 20:15:33 I've used .cc/.hh. 20:15:33 seriously 20:15:34 well okay 20:15:37 and .hxx 20:15:37 certainly rare though 20:15:45 ehird, never seen .H though... 20:15:52 .hpp is the most common special h naming i've seen 20:15:56 which lends more credence to .cpp too 20:15:57 glioooooo 20:16:00 ehird, .hpp and .hxx 20:16:01 .h is more common though 20:16:01 eh 20:16:03 O dpm 20:16:04 i'll ask stroustru 20:16:04 p 20:16:07 maybe he has an opinion. 20:16:08 fizzie, ? 20:16:19 AnMaster: shift typo 20:16:23 i.e. hands rested one letter off 20:16:27 Yes. Then I gave up. 20:16:40 Deewiant, I'd say .hpp > .h > .hxx > .hh 20:16:51 i like .o 20:16:57 http://www.research.att.com/~bs/pronounciation.wav strchstruwp 20:16:58 I'd flip .h and .hpp 20:17:08 .h is undesirable. 20:17:10 if you do that, do .c too! 20:17:21 That's quite common, too. 20:17:27 ............... 20:17:30 srsly? 20:17:34 O dpm <-- shifted to "I son"? 20:17:38 Yes 20:17:45 I, son. 20:17:47 son of who? 20:17:50 "I don". 20:17:55 ah 20:17:59 don: are you? 20:18:07 fizzie, so the d was unshifted 20:18:19 ehird: String char string unsigned word pointer, in MS-speak. :P 20:18:20 It was just the right hand that was off-by-one. And the ' in the fi layout is next to enter, which is what I tried to press next. 20:18:31 pikhq: wat 20:18:35 Er, I mean, I tried ' but it came out as an enter. 20:18:40 ' 20:18:41 ehird, best way would be .C and .H clearly 20:18:44 I DID BOTH 20:18:44 They're Hungarian. 20:18:50 AnMaster: best way would be .c++ and .h++ 20:18:53 .C/.H makes no sense 20:19:04 ehird, ok, .c++ and .h++ would be better 20:19:08 but I never see .h++ 20:19:09 ever 20:19:14 .c++ yes 20:19:15 i never see .c++ either 20:19:22 anyway, anyone got a windows box? 20:19:24 see if .c++ works 20:19:25 I did see .c++, I think paired with .h 20:19:31 some FOSS 20:19:47 ehird, where is oerjan when you need him 20:19:56 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) 20:20:05 ehird, heh 20:20:06 I can't be bothered to reboot just for that 20:20:09 According to MSDN it should work: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247(VS.85).aspx 20:20:21 Deewiant: set up a vm pointed at the windows partition 20:20:22 fizzie: Please link to the low-bandwidth one 20:20:22 The reserved ones are < > : " / \ | ? *. 20:20:34 Deewiant: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247(VS.85,loband).aspx 20:20:34 ehird: Too much of a pain. 20:20:36 sorry, you wanted fizzie 20:20:42 Cheers 20:21:02 I can't seem to find a link to that, just the printer-friendly thing. 20:21:12 Ah, there it is. 20:21:38 But I'm not going to link to it! Ha ha! 20:21:49 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 20:22:12 [[See my C++0x FAQ. The aim is for the 'x' in C++0x to become '9': C++09, rather than (say) C++0xA (hexadecimal :-).]] 20:22:13 that worked well 20:24:04 Of course there's the catch-all "Any other character that the target file system does not allow". And in fact the FAT short-name can't contain a +: "The following special characters are also allowed: $ % ' - _ @ ~ ` ! ( ) { } ^ # &" (does not include +). 20:24:32 But the long-name can contain any of + , ; = [ ] too. And I guess NTFS is a bit more flexible. 20:24:35 ehird: You commented about big pages, btw; MSDN reminded me of that. www.fox.com is at 1.46 MB (and still waiting for something, it seems) according to Firebug. 20:24:54 I question why you'd want to load fox.com 20:24:58 But anyway, that's multiple things 20:25:01 You won't get a timeout 20:25:05 Just some broken images and stuff 20:25:31 No, but if you're browsing two things at once the other might timeout. 20:25:44 I don't care whether it's strictly part of the page, just how much it stresses the connection. 20:26:12 True. 20:26:15 Anyway, fox.com was just an example, I figured it'd be pretty huge. 20:27:52 I actually tried cnn.com first but it consistently hangs my whole browser. 20:29:31 XD 20:31:45 (It did respond to Ctrl-W, though.) 20:33:12 Whoo. Seems today was a really good time to get stuff from Newegg. 20:33:39 Phenom? Screw that; a Phenom II FTW. 20:34:02 pikhq: Buy FIVE MILLION of them. 20:34:07 pikhq: Also, DDR3 prices are near DDR2 now. 20:34:20 Also, AM2+ motherboard was still cheaper. 20:34:20 Mayhaps you could get 2x2GB of DDR3 on the cheap, I think. 20:34:28 Poor you :P 20:34:34 What's "near" here 20:34:42 Deewiant: "Almost as low as" 20:34:43 "Only twice"? 20:34:51 No, they've improved very rapidly 20:35:00 ehird: $42 bucks off in total. 20:35:04 ehird: Numbers, please. Preferably ones that have something to do with their relative prices. 20:35:06 Deewiant: 2GB for $27.99 of DDR3. 20:35:25 Wow, I can get $27.99 of DDR3‽ 20:35:30 Lawl 20:35:54 I have over 6 times that of DDR2 20:36:00 Deewiant: Lowest 2GB cost on newegg is $21.99; the DDR3 I was talking about was Crucial - a respected brand. 20:36:02 So I'm doing good, I guess 20:36:04 The lowest DDR2? "Allcomponents". 20:36:14 Never heard of Crucial. 20:36:16 Looking further, you're saving just a few dollars. 20:36:19 Deewiant: they're huge... 20:36:29 Outside the Commonwealth? :-P 20:36:32 I have here an old laptop I'd like a 1 gigabyte so-dimm for; but it eats DDR1 only, and for some reason a 1-gigabyte DDR1 thing is approximately 40€, while a 1-gigabyte DDR2 so-dimm is ~13€. Around here. 20:36:33 mostly in the "aftermarket memory upgrades" market 20:36:44 Deewiant: you have 8GB of ram right? 20:36:50 Yep. 20:37:20 Deewiant: How much did it cost, and when? 20:37:57 Something like 60-70 € twice, IIRC. It was on sale around... November? 20:38:24 You can get 4GB of DDR3 in 2x2 for $57.99; although you can save a whole cent by getting 2x2 separately = $57.98. 130 euros is $181. 20:38:41 I seem to have bought a 2-gigabyte DDR2 stick for 17.90 € in April 28th. 20:38:41 $57.98 = 41.52 eur 20:38:50 Deewiant: Crucial is well-respected and not over-priced. 20:39:04 fizzie: 2GB of DDR3 = 20 euros 20:39:23 This was, of course, Mushkin's Redline RAM and thus considered somewhat extraneously quality. 20:39:36 It was also approximately the cheapest DDR2 I could find, interestingly enough. 20:39:46 (Among brands that have names.) 20:39:50 Deewiant: Interestingly, the clock speed and the like on DDR3 don't change Core i7 performance much out of synthetic benchmarks. 20:40:05 I think bsmntbombdood's 12GB of DDR3 RAM was like $200 20:40:16 Perhaps those synthetic benchmarks don't stress RAM! 20:40:20 They did 20:40:26 I'm going from 256k of cache to 6M. 20:40:28 Deewiant: I meant non-benchmarks don't change 20:40:40 Anyway, all I'm sayin' is, if you have the mobo support, DDR3 is the only sane option. 20:40:47 I'm getting 3 times the CPUs. And 4 times the RAM. 20:40:54 pikhq: how much ram are you getting? 20:40:58 My system's going to be modern again! 20:40:59 also, 3 times the cores 20:40:59 ehird: 4G. 20:41:00 not cpus 20:41:19 pikhq: I'd say DDR3 performance is worth $42, btw. 20:41:36 I'd have to get a more expensive motherboard for that. 20:41:40 three times as much ram as number of cores? 20:41:44 pikhq: You said $42 more. 20:41:46 huh? 20:42:01 ehird: Well yeah, if you have the mobo support DDR3 is your only option. :-P 20:42:06 Deewiant: Uh, no. 20:42:09 AM3 mobos support both. 20:42:11 ehird: No, I'm saying it was a total of $42 off, because the CPU was marked down by $30 and the motherboard by $10. 20:42:12 Or are there DDR2+3 boards these days. 20:42:12 Which is the relevant case for pikhq. 20:42:13 Okay. 20:42:17 And the RAM by $2. 20:42:18 pikhq: Ah. 20:42:24 ehird, ^ 20:42:24 pikhq: What is your mobo+RAM costing you? 20:42:37 I really shouldn't talk about hardware when I haven't been researching it recently. 20:42:56 ehird: Maybe $100? 20:43:03 pikhq: Look at the prices, plz :P 20:43:29 Nein. 20:43:52 pikhq: I'm just trying to prove that DDR3 wouldn't actually add much cost at all to your system. 20:44:02 Whatever. 20:44:32 pikhq: $133.97 for 4GB of DDR3 RAM and a supporting AM3 mobo. 20:44:50 Your loss :-P 20:44:56 Okay. More but not much more. 20:45:07 ...which can't be said about the performance. 20:45:13 *smoooooooth* 20:45:22 (Uh, rephrase that more... positively) 20:46:17 AnMaster: Deewiant: fizzie: New evidence in the C++ naming debate — apparently cfront used .cc 20:46:21 not sure, though 20:47:36 pikhq: FWIW, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153149 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149 x 2 20:51:24 I wonder how the extensions fit with Objective-C++ 20:51:27 .mm is silly. 20:51:30 .mpp makes sense. 20:51:37 .M is silly. 20:51:40 .mxx is really silly. 20:51:48 Well, .mm or .mpp I guess 20:51:56 So it's still down to .cc or .cpp in general 20:55:02 Maybe the ".mmm, marabou" extension. 20:58:15 ehird, what about .m? I remember also seeing .c for C++ 20:58:18 seriously 20:58:27 lol. 20:58:37 was some shitty open source game 20:58:39 .c for C++ is fairly common. 20:58:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:58:56 And gcc breaks on that. 20:59:39 In general I don't call on gcc for C++ source anyway. 20:59:46 hi oerjan 20:59:56 hello AnMaster 21:00:00 pikhq, not if you want it to work 21:00:07 you can use -x or something iirc 21:00:11 -x c++ maybe? 21:00:17 -xlang c++, IIRC. 21:00:33 err no 21:00:35 man gcc 21:00:39 agrees with me 21:00:49 -x c++98 :-P 21:00:52 wait 21:00:53 that's -std= 21:00:54 ignore me 21:00:55 gcj -x c++ foo.cxx should work 21:01:17 for extra sillyness: gcj -x c++ -std=c++98 foo.cxx 21:01:21 but I'm not quite sure 21:01:30 it certainly works for gcc and g++ 21:01:34 surely ou mean GNAT 21:01:37 *you 21:01:40 JGNAT is a GNAT version that compiles from the Ada programming language to Java bytecode. 21:01:42 ehird, that too I guess... 21:01:43 jgnat -x or whatever :P 21:02:00 iirc GNAT is kind of special in general 21:02:06 but I never used it 21:02:53 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) <-- that hasn't happened in a long while. although occasionally it refuses to start, saying "Operating system not found" 21:02:58 heh 21:03:04 oerjan: can you name a file butt.c++ ? 21:03:11 well not necessarily butt 21:03:13 If he's on NTFS, he can. 21:03:47 If he's on FAT32, he should be able too, as long as he doesn't care that the underlying 8.3-format short-name won't have a + there. 21:03:48 sure 21:04:07 C: is NTFS 21:04:16 Well, FAT, I guess. 21:04:31 Non-8.3 on FAT is evil. 21:05:59 Deewiant: tell that to ais523 21:06:12 oerjan: did it work? 21:06:17 I prefer UMSDOS. 21:06:35 argh i hate const correctness 21:06:50 (FAT with extra metadata to make it magically be proper UNIX) 21:07:01 Shame it's not in 2.6. 21:07:11 ehird: yes, yes 21:07:21 that's what i meant by "sure" 21:07:30 hmm you don't have to write "return 0;" in c++ 21:07:33 i guess c99 stole that 21:07:36 wonder if it's "best practice" 21:08:27 !haskell return 0 :: [Rational] 21:08:29 [0%1] 21:09:41 lawl 21:10:01 and having a function combine 21:10:20 aka liftM2 (,) 21:10:38 eh 21:10:40 what's that from 21:11:06 !haskell liftM2 (,) [2,7] [2,7] 21:11:10 and having a function combine 21:11:12 what's this from 21:11:25 !haskell import Control.Monad; main=print$liftM2 (,) [2,7] [2,7] 21:11:27 [(2,2),(2,7),(7,2),(7,7)] 21:11:39 tellll meeeeeeeee oerjan 21:12:23 a discussion on stupid factorization in the logs, iiuc 21:12:34 ah. 21:12:36 *prime testing 21:13:01 Factorization, actually. 21:13:56 pikhq: btw your solution to euler #1 is much longer than needs be 21:14:13 also list comprehensions are probably clearer for beginners 21:15:06 yes 21:15:08 that's what it was 21:15:17 lemme find the code 21:15:19 hum? 21:15:29 i wasn't commenting on your comment, btw 21:15:39 ehird: Yeah. 21:15:43 pikhq: here — 21:15:44 (sec) 21:15:48 but list comprehensions may be a good bet anyhow ;D 21:16:01 sum [n | n <- [1..1000-1], n `mod` 5 == 0 || n `mod` 3 == 0] 21:16:20 Instead of my filtering stuff. 21:16:26 [|] IS filtering stuff 21:16:32 Yes. 21:16:40 but yours filters through [1..] to find the answer or something, which is bizarre 21:16:41 Not using the filter function, though. 21:16:43 also 1000-1 is bizarre 21:16:45 make it [1..99] 21:16:49 pikhq: yes it does 21:16:51 concatMap is isomorphic 21:16:54 Filters [1..999]. 21:16:56 and also, 21:17:02 [n | n <- blah, a] 21:17:02 main = print $ sum (filter (\x -> x `mod` 3 == 0 || x `mod` 5 == 0) [1..999]) 21:17:03 a is filtered 21:17:04 1000-1 isn't bizarre 21:17:04 That's my solution. 21:17:09 mm 21:17:12 !haskell sum [n | n <- [1..999], 0 `elem` map (n `mod`) [3,5]] 21:17:13 233168 21:17:17 pikhq: that wasn't what you said first 21:17:30 main = print . sum . filter (\x -> x `mod` 3 == 0 || x `mod` 5 == 0) $ [1..999] 21:17:31 is better style 21:17:32 ... You're thinking of something different. 21:17:32 btw 21:17:50 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) <-- that hasn't happened in a long while. although occasionally it refuses to start, saying "Operating system not found" <-- how do you fix that when it happens? 21:17:58 reboots, I assume 21:18:06 yeah 21:18:21 it's very intermittent 21:18:36 oerjan, sounds like harddrive issues, if bootloader can't find the OS 21:18:38 -!- zid has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:18:39 That's a strange error to get intermittently 21:18:41 yeah 21:18:42 +/~.(3*i.334),5*i.200 21:18:42 hope you have backups 21:18:44 —j solution 21:18:54 oerjan, I seriously hope you have backups... 21:18:55 and it only seems to happen at booting 21:19:11 oerjan, I suspect it is due to a harddrive that is nearing it's end of life 21:19:19 alternatively, some BIOS bug 21:19:27 it has happened occasionally since i got the computer :D 21:19:29 my computer has started sparkling and smoking 21:19:33 oerjan, hm ok 21:19:41 it's 3 years old now 21:19:53 oklodok, shut it off and unplug everthing? 21:20:05 no no just occasionally when i lift it 21:20:06 and stand ready with something to put out any fire 21:20:18 oklodok, err. lift it while running? It is a laptop then? 21:20:38 while it is* 21:20:42 i don't mind it, except i guess i am a bit afraid of leaving it alone. 21:20:52 ... 21:20:55 oklodok, is it a laptop? 21:21:03 i have to put vlc on fullscreen if i don't touch the computer for half an hour, or it crashes 21:21:09 that's another fun thing about this 21:21:10 err what 21:21:22 you heard it 21:21:26 oklodok, sounds like it crashes when screen blanking? 21:21:27 and yes laptop 21:21:29 is that correct? 21:21:31 pikhq: also "sum [3,6..999] + sum [5,10..999] - sum [15,30..999]" 21:21:33 or goes to sleep 21:21:33 which is a fun solution 21:21:36 or similar 21:21:43 interestingly, the most impressive solution is in PHP. 21:21:47 $x = 1000; 21:21:48 echo 1.5*(int)(($x-1)/3)*(int)(($x+2)/3) + 2.5*(int)(($x-1)/5)*(int)(($x+4)/5) - 7.5*(int)(($x-1)/15)*(int)(($x+14)/15); 21:21:50 oklodok, because vlc in full screen mode would prevent sleep and screen blanking 21:21:50 using that wacky formula thing 21:21:56 -!- zid has joined. 21:21:58 it crashes, can't do anything anymore, have to reboot. 21:22:03 so theory is that one of them cause it to crash 21:22:29 oklodok, right, but does it crash in the moment it is about to turn of the monitor due to inactivity or such? 21:22:39 or put disks into stand-by mode 21:22:39 it doesn't do that 21:22:44 i've turned all those features off 21:22:51 hm ok 21:23:06 so something like that, but something vista doesn't explicitly let you control 21:23:19 which fullscreen disables anyway 21:23:23 ehird, what is that formula supposed to do? 21:23:31 AnMaster: see euler problem 1. 21:24:27 um ok 21:24:34 where are solutions listed then? 21:25:01 you have to solve it first. 21:25:10 ehird: Nice solution. 21:25:10 ah, have to create an account and so on then 21:25:29 yes, you have to take two seconds to choose a username and password. 21:25:31 oh, the horror. 21:25:38 ehird, I don't understand how that formula solves that problem. Does anyone? 21:25:47 ehird, and then solve the problems too 21:25:57 AnMaster: Anyone who knows mathematics, yes. Also, oh god, you have to "Find the sum of all the multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000." 21:25:57 sure I can solve that first one at least easily enough 21:25:58 Impossible. 21:26:01 How could we do it?! 21:26:04 iterating and doing it right 21:26:14 ehird, just too lazy 21:26:17 Iterating? Fail. 21:26:26 ehird, it would be one way to solve it 21:26:32 There's a number of easier ways of doing it. 21:26:36 * oerjan swats ehird -----### 21:26:40 pikhq, googling? 21:26:40 It would be a very stupid way. Iteration is almost always retarded. 21:27:09 iterating to 1000 is kinda overkill yeah 21:27:25 ehird: now you're just trolling. even i used iteration, even though i perfectly well know how to calculate triangle numbers 21:27:27 Take the list of numbers below 1000. Remove all those that aren't multiples of 3 or 5. Add up. 21:27:27 it's a sum plus a filter. 21:27:30 biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig deaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal 21:27:34 ehird, summing a list implies some sort of iteration. Even if it is hidden as a sum function 21:27:40 oerjan: you used a for loop? 21:27:42 is this in haskell? 21:27:47 i'd say that's terribly stupid of you if so. 21:27:56 ehird: i consider sum [...] to be iteration 21:28:03 i think oerjan was thinking a different kinda iteration 21:28:03 AnMaster: i can just as easily say that a foor loop is a gloss over a filter. 21:28:05 yeah 21:28:08 ghc would compile it down to iteration anyway 21:28:15 ehird, could say that 21:28:15 you say it your way because you are cpu-biased 21:28:18 (even though i use hugs) 21:28:18 it's theoretically bullshit 21:28:27 and a functional expression isn't fundamentally an iteration 21:28:47 ehird, what sort of computer doesn't implement it through iteration 21:28:59 sum [] = 0;sum (x:xs) = x + sum xs -- I didn't realise that was iteration. 21:29:04 AnMaster: ooh, I'd love to see you across history 21:29:10 "what sort of flying machine doesn't do it by being lighter than air" 21:29:20 therefore, the airplane is bunk. QED. 21:29:25 ehird, I meant current ones 21:29:26 pikhq: point is you can implement it without any iteration 21:29:29 because you can calculate it 21:29:34 ehird, are there any examples of it 21:29:37 AnMaster: i'm sure you'd have said that when the wright brothers started too 21:29:44 that's still the exact same algorithm 21:29:47 sure it might be theoretically possible in the future 21:29:51 just less explicit ordering of the computations 21:29:55 I'm just asking, does any such example exist today 21:29:58 stop trolling ehird 21:30:12 you're very stupid AnMaster. i'm surprised you program in anything but machine code. 21:30:22 ...? 21:30:42 I fail to see how you think this insult would make sense. 21:30:44 * oerjan hands out some drama queen crowns |\/\/| |\/\/| 21:30:55 i want one tooooooo 21:31:05 ok then |\/\/| 21:31:11 BIGGER 21:31:16 but... 21:31:16 only thing I'm asking is if there is any current computer that sums a list through anything but iteration 21:31:22 anyway i need to sleep now 21:31:43 AnMaster: Itanium. 21:31:49 you could of course use for example vector instructions to sum chunks at a time 21:32:10 pikhq, details? 21:32:16 you could use binary branching too 21:32:25 iirc you can load 4 32-bit integers in a SSE register and sum them. but what if you have an array not fitting in your vector unit, whatever size it is. 21:32:32 It's got somewhat silly vector instructions. 21:32:57 pikhq, yes, but tell me of this case that doesn't need iteration to do it 21:33:11 oerjan, binary branching? 21:33:42 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:33:49 sum each half recursively, then combining 21:33:55 for arrays anyway 21:34:08 oerjan, right, Like mergesum? 21:34:18 if that's what it's called 21:34:36 Huh, [1 | True] is [1]. I wonder what source it calls. 21:34:36 -!- coppro has joined. 21:34:38 oerjan, don't know. But isn't mergesort basically the same? "sort each half, then combine" 21:34:40 Ah, sorry. It still iterates. It just does so in parallel. 21:34:45 so the same for summing... 21:34:48 With vector operations. 21:34:53 pikhq, right 21:35:24 you could maybe use summing memory 21:35:46 AnMaster: sure 21:36:08 like CAM but with hardware to sum all in parallel instead of hardware to match all in parallel 21:36:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:36:28 doing that would however be rather silly 21:36:30 hi ais523 21:36:31 AnMaster: we managed to get lambdabot to calculate bigger factorials by using that method with products 21:37:00 oerjan, which method do you mean? 21:37:14 it sounds familiar 21:37:17 hi AnMaster 21:37:19 but I don't remmeber details 21:37:24 remember* 21:37:26 recursing and combining 21:37:30 ah right 21:37:37 it obviously works for any associative operation 21:38:00 oerjan, sounds like memoising(sp?) 21:38:09 AnMaster: good grief no 21:38:10 it's not memoizing at all. 21:38:16 wtf made you think that 21:38:23 ehird, not thinking clearly 21:38:30 I was mixing things up 21:38:34 you don't say 21:38:51 it's just because it is better to multiply numbers of approximately equal magnitude, than to multiply large numbers by lots of small ones 21:39:05 oerjan, hm why is that? 21:39:07 so thus splitting up a factorial makes it faster 21:39:10 for floating point yes 21:39:14 but were you using that? 21:39:17 no, for bignums 21:39:37 oerjan, ah hm, maybe there is a reason for that. I don't know how bignums are implemented 21:39:43 we were using ordinary ghc Integers. i think it uses ... damn memory 21:39:55 the gnu library 21:40:15 GMP? 21:40:15 gmp 21:40:18 yes 21:40:35 i think it uses fast fourier transforms for really big numbers 21:40:47 ah. black magic to me 21:41:04 although i'm not sure that applies much to this case 21:41:05 * AnMaster wonders what a slow fourier transforms would be 21:41:24 s/a/ 21:41:28 speaking of bignum 21:41:28 s 21:41:32 http://www.catonmat.net/blog/on-the-linear-time-algorithm-for-finding-fibonacci-numbers/ 21:41:34 good post 21:42:09 There are five multiplication algorithms; "Basecase", "Karatsuba", "Toom-3", "Toom-4" and "FFT"; they're all chosen by thresholds on the size of the numbers involved. http://gmplib.org/manual/Multiplication-Algorithms.html has the details. 21:42:11 we did something with fibonacci too 21:42:24 Five in GMP, I mean. It is rather unlikely there would be no others. 21:42:44 i've always wanted something that's basically "like a float or a double if they were infinite" 21:42:49 i guess Few Digits is basically that 21:45:12 ehird: there's some Computable Real library for haskell 21:45:30 Few Digits 21:45:30 those have some issues though, since comparison is undecidable 21:45:35 that was fixed 21:45:38 oerjan: Few Digits == CReal 21:45:41 oh 21:45:44 > 2/3 :: CReal 21:45:50 oh 21:45:51 no lambdabo 21:45:52 t 21:45:58 !haskell print $ 2/3 :: CReal 21:46:02 !haskell main = print $ 2/3 :: CReal 21:46:03 grumble 21:46:10 no import i guess 21:46:22 i doubt EgoBot even has that library, but who knows 21:47:03 lambdabot has a lot of extras 21:47:04 oerjan: can you ask gwern to put \bot in #esoteric again? i'd feel pushy :P 21:47:18 i'm not even in #haskell you know 21:47:25 oh 21:47:25 well enter. 21:47:28 :p 21:47:34 haven't been for a year or so 21:47:40 why not? 21:48:21 too much talk 21:48:58 Prelude Graphics.Gnuplot.Simple> plotFunc [] [0,0.1..10] sin 21:48:59 ^_^ 21:49:10 pikhq: Throw out yer Maxima! Throw out yer MATLAB! 21:49:30 that Haskell for Maths thing + cabal install gnuplot -fsplitBase -fexecutePipe 21:49:31 :D 21:50:02 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 21:50:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:50:22 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 21:50:54 we did something with fibonacci too 21:50:56 what did I miss? 21:51:03 nothing 21:51:05 oerjan: privmsg gwern then? :P 21:51:07 AnMaster: loads 21:51:08 much? 21:51:17 yes 21:51:19 use tunes, bitch 21:52:04 ehird, anything directed at me? 21:52:06 meh 21:52:14 don't care enough :P 21:52:37 oerjan finally expressed his gayness by proposing to yo. 21:52:38 you 21:52:44 AnMaster: computable reals in haskell 21:52:54 if anyone wanted something important to me they can just say it again. 21:53:06 and bitching about lambdabot not being here to test it 21:53:23 and ehird nagging to have _me_ ask them, when he is the current regular 21:53:26 suuuure... 21:53:34 and oerjan proposing to AnMaster 21:54:04 oh well 21:54:05 * ehird asks 21:54:06 oerjan, why did that bot leave btw? 21:54:09 -!- amuck_ has joined. 21:54:10 also why not test it locally 21:54:10 it crashed 21:54:15 argh 21:54:17 a #haskeller already! 21:54:19 AnMaster: it sometimes crashes 21:54:26 ehird, suuuuuuuuuuuuure.... 21:54:27 AnMaster: installing few digits involves darcs and also it's easier. 21:54:36 ok, AnMaster has a new thing: it's saying "suuuuuuuuuuuuure". 21:54:40 damn lag 21:55:04 AnMaster: if it's still like when i was there, it has something like a memory leak issue that no one could find 21:55:08 ehird, crashing is a side effect ;P 21:55:20 -!- randomity has joined. 21:55:26 so you need a monad for crashing or somehting 21:55:32 but then it has been extensively changed, at least the @run part iiuc 21:55:40 how come #haskellers always come in here in droves when I just mention #esoteic in there 21:55:44 oerjan finally expressed his gayness by proposing to yo. 21:55:46 oerjan: it's mueval now. 21:55:56 you 21:55:57 AnMaster: you forgot my correction! 21:56:00 suuuure... 21:56:02 [...] 21:56:02 oh. 21:56:04 and oerjan proposing to AnMaster 21:56:06 ehird, suuuuuuuuuuuuure.... 21:56:08 * Ping reply from oerjan: 57.94 second(s) <-- btw 21:56:22 we're all searching for a language that's harder to learn than haskell. #esoteric seems like a natural choice... 21:56:27 ehird: and it no longer gives nice error messages for runtime errors, i noticed 21:56:36 oerjan, isn't Haskell supposed to have a GC?... 21:56:39 well some errors anyway 21:56:50 AnMaster: not if it spawns processes that leak... 21:56:59 AnMaster: GC doesn't prevent all memory leaks 21:57:06 ..? 21:57:18 AnMaster: you forgot my correction! 21:57:20 oh. 21:57:22 ..? 21:57:24 err 21:57:26 the lag is so bad I'm over a minute out of sync 21:57:35 stop talking until it fixes then 21:57:43 AnMaster: If you keep a reference to it but never use it. 21:57:44 talking to anyone here would be faster using telegram! 21:57:46 randomity, INTERCAL 21:58:00 AnMaster: telegram? 21:58:06 randomity: Haskell was probably the hardest language to learn that I know. 21:58:07 I doubt that would be faster than IRC 21:58:12 AnMaster: GC doesn't prevent all memory leaks <-- true 21:58:13 ehird: #haskell is full of droves, obviously they come 21:58:21 you /can/ send telegrams nowadays, although I'm not entirely sure how they're deliveired 21:58:24 Of course, I don't know IINTERCAL. 21:58:24 and I'm still lagging badly 21:58:25 INTERCAL is easy 21:58:32 malbolge is not 21:58:34 ehird: it is harder to learn than Haskell, though, IMO 21:58:39 randomity: i was about to say that 21:58:44 hehehe 21:58:46 if you're not a cryptographer, malbolge is the hardest, prolly 21:58:48 I wouldn't say that Malbolge is learnt at all, more cryptanalysed 21:58:50 ais523: no way 21:58:54 intercal is just weird 21:58:58 haskell has a bunch of mind-changers 21:59:00 ehird, waiting for bouncer to join over 60 channels with freenode's rate limiting? Very funny 21:59:12 ehird: well, I found Haskell easier to learn than INTERCAL 21:59:13 AnMaster: you have nobody to blame but yourself. 21:59:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram#Worldwide_discontinuance_of_telegrams lists a rather sorry state of affairs. 21:59:36 AnMaster: telegram? I doubt that would be faster than IRC <-- I feel for ehird. Sometimes. 21:59:38 * Ping reply from oerjan: 70.49 second(s) 21:59:39 ais523: You must love functions. 21:59:47 pikhq: I do 21:59:50 randomity: C++. 22:00:01 Nobody knows all of C++. :P 22:00:05 pikhq: disagree, C++ is easy to learn, just hard to learn well 22:00:10 ehird, I blame freenode 22:00:12 i wonder how i should represent irrationals 22:00:18 ehird, on other servers it is done much much faster 22:00:20 ais523: A subset of C++ is easy to learn. 22:00:35 This is the commonly used subset of the language. 22:00:38 it is just that freenode's rate limiting sucks so much 22:00:55 -!- Associat0r has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:01:01 If you want some mind-warping, do functional programming with the type system. 22:01:18 AnMaster: I still guarantee you, freenode is faster than telegrams 22:01:34 pikhq: that's horrible and broken 22:01:34 [[Hippasus, however, was not lauded for his efforts: according to one legend, he made his discovery while out at sea, and was subsequently thrown overboard by his fellow Pythagoreans “…for having produced an element in the universe which denied the…doctrine that all phenomena in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their ratios.”]] 22:01:34 I'm not even sure who handles telegrams nowadays; possibly the postal service 22:01:38 old mathematics are hilarious 22:01:42 randomity: As is the rest of C++. 22:01:49 once they've been sent to near their destination electronically 22:01:55 it's like haskell, without closures, where lambda is template struct { typedef ... } 22:02:14 randomity: unlambda is harder than INTERCAL, but not as hard as Malbolge. in my opinion. 22:02:26 (not that i've programmed in malbolge) 22:02:36 people don't program in malbolge 22:02:48 ais523, it is joining over 70 channels 22:02:50 in fact 22:02:52 Unlambda's not all that hard to learn. Hard to use well, perhaps, but it is just combinators. 22:03:04 i made a variant though. not that anyone has programmed that either. 22:03:10 ais523, I invite you to #feather-lang btw :P 22:03:20 And yes, people don't program in Malbolge. 22:03:36 They do genetic programming for it. 22:03:45 pikhq: wrong 22:03:48 that's just ac 22:03:54 plenty of people since have written in it 22:04:00 one guy mastered it by poking it with a stick 22:04:06 o.O 22:04:08 two other people basically cryptanalyzed it 22:04:12 I'm scared now. 22:04:22 pikhq: there IS a looping 99 bottles of beer in it y'know 22:04:29 written manually 22:05:02 yay lag is gone 22:05:04 finally 22:05:13 about 15 minutes later. 22:05:14 pikhq: non-cooke material: http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml, http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html 22:05:17 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Malbolge_programming 22:05:20 ais523, ^ 22:05:25 sure telegram would be slower? 22:05:32 lemme find the second person to do it 22:05:48 http://www.antwon.com/index.php?p=234, darn it disappeared 22:05:56 Hey there, party people. This is Antwon, checking in with his new and exciting web server from whence he can resurrect the full antwon.com experience. 22:05:56 As you may have noticed, all of those nifty goodies like "features" and "content" aren't exactly displaying at this point in time. At the moment, all of my umpteen bazillion posts are stored away in a singular XML file - awesome from a "I did not lose this content!" standpoint, but less so from a "people can actually read my hard-fought years of maniacal writing!" vantage. Rest assured that I am working on things and will get something together Real Soon 22:06:01 Now(tm). 22:06:03 meh, web.archive.org away. 22:06:26 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/823 22:07:17 * ais523 reads discussion about Microsoft's announcement about Mono patents 22:07:27 pikhq: there's a compiler to malbolge apparently 22:07:28 http://www.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/thesis/M2005/i/M350402019e.pdf 22:07:31 http://www.sakabe.i.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~nishida/DB/pdf/iizawa05ss2005-22.pdf (japanese) 22:07:35 ehird: O.O 22:07:41 from a C-like language 22:07:52 I'm fucking frightened. 22:07:59 ais523: the responses from the trolls to that were great 22:08:29 ais523: they basically consisted of "that's not a legal promise!" (actually, it was), "they won't hit you, perhaps... instead they'll rape you!" (paraphrased…slightly), etc 22:08:42 yep, there are only two issues that look legit: a) it doesn't cover several common libraries, only C# and .NET itself, and b) Microsoft could sell the patents to someone else, and the someone else could then sue 22:08:57 (a) doesn't matter for most mono apps due to using gtk# and stuff 22:09:01 agreed 22:09:03 although asp.net mvc is kinda popular, whatever 22:09:12 however, I don't think Microsoft particularly care about Mono + GTK# 22:09:24 after all, it hardly lets people run Windows programs 22:09:31 meh 22:09:38 there isn't a windowsforms implementation either 22:09:43 so really, just asp.net is the issue 22:09:49 and it's not even an issue anyway 22:09:54 people just like to complain :P 22:10:05 estoppel was mentioned in the reddit comments, so… 22:10:06 -!- ehird has changed nick to estoppel. 22:10:10 i'm famous. 22:10:14 yep, that's what point b) is about 22:10:20 Microsoft is estopped, nobody else is though 22:11:24 http://ciphersaber.gurus.org/WTCliberties.gif ← I want to make a motivational of this with just a title: "POLITICAL CARTOON" 22:11:35 ais523: I'm pretty sure such a case would be rejected under estoppel anyway; isn't it vague? 22:11:54 estoppel: that would be a massive loophole 22:12:05 eh? 22:12:09 if I promised not to sue you for pirating someone else's music, that wouldn't stop the RIAA doing it 22:12:18 heh 22:13:46 -!- oklodok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:13:48 this brings to mind that in norway at least you can put restrictions on what people can do with ground property, even when resold. isn't there anything similar in other countries? 22:13:52 [[On second glance, the C code is obviously just a Malbolge interpreter, so I guess there's not really anything useful to get from it (unless we can get it translated). --Rune 21:12, 1 Jun 2006 (UTC) ]] 22:13:55 hmm 22:13:57 -!- oklodok has joined. 22:13:59 anyway 22:14:01 oklodok! 22:14:06 you're a glio duck. 22:14:07 i'm not sure if applies to anything but estate 22:14:10 *it 22:14:20 actually, it's quite hard to be /obviously/ a Malbolge interpreter 22:14:30 surely nobody's memorized the encryption table? 22:14:41 "glio"? 22:14:42 what is that 22:14:46 without knowing that, it would be hard to tell if something was implementing Malbolge, or a similar language with different encryption 22:14:49 `define glio 22:14:50 No output. 22:14:54 apparently it isn't 22:15:02 according to HackEgo, anyway 22:15:10 AnMaster: oklodok's pet word. be kind to it. 22:15:14 ah 22:15:24 [[On second glance, the C code is obviously just a Malbolge interpreter, so I guess there's not really anything useful to get from it (unless we can get it translated). --Rune 21:12, 1 Jun 2006 (UTC) ]] <-- source of citation? 22:15:34 esolang. 22:15:48 the wiki page about malbolge? 22:16:10 talk. 22:16:16 ah 22:17:30 * pikhq wants a Malbolge self-interpreter. 22:17:40 Erm. Malbolge interpreter in Malbolge. 22:17:50 \o~ 22:18:04 pikhq: finite memory 22:18:06 pikhq, could only interpret a smaller program 22:18:10 so, impossible. 22:18:16 [[Irrational number]] doesn't have any ideas for representation :( 22:18:20 estoppel, connect input to output 22:18:24 Oh, right. They made it arbitrarily finite. 22:18:25 get a infinite queue 22:18:30 AnMaster: heh. 22:18:42 estoppel, I read about that somewhere else 22:18:46 talking about malbolge 22:19:07 Malbolge + PSOX is Turing-complete. 22:19:16 hah 22:19:28 Assuming you can do the relevant PSOX support code, that is. 22:19:36 hm? 22:19:53 pikhq, can't you just use PSOX right away as it currently is? 22:20:13 I think you misunderstood. 22:20:19 possibly 22:20:29 *Malbolge* code to actually talk with PSOX. 22:20:35 ah 22:20:45 pikhq, well that should be possible in theory 22:20:53 if you can fit it in the length of the program 22:21:04 That's the tricky bit. 22:21:04 iirc that is limited too 22:21:06 wow at this statistic: fine against Jammie Thomas per song copied = $84000; compensation for family of each person who died in the Air France crash = $24000 22:21:26 ais523, crazy 22:21:30 ais523: Average yearly income ~= $40,000. 22:21:45 that fits well with the other two 22:21:46 pikhq: the basic operations of malbolge are such that it is hard _not_ to make it arbitrarily finite. that's what i tried to fix in my Unshackled variant. 22:22:16 ais523: old, also false 22:22:20 ais523: that $24,000 was the original payment 22:22:28 more came/is coming later 22:22:35 well, ok 22:22:41 it's statistics, it doesn't have to be correct 22:23:17 AnMaster: the program is loaded into memory, so same size bound 22:23:32 yes? I said that 22:23:43 that it was bounded I mean 22:23:44 you didn't say the readon 22:23:46 *reason 22:23:58 oerjan, I knew it, I just didn't spell it out. 22:24:23 food -> 22:24:41 oerjan: is there a way to represent the irrationals apart from as a computation (polynomials count as that) 22:24:43 ? 22:27:06 :t frac 22:27:08 argh 22:29:19 some irrationals cannot be represented as computations >:) 22:29:45 oerjan: well, ok, but they're useless :) 22:29:51 oerjan: assume computable rationals 22:30:21 The computable irrationals may only be represented as a computation or an infinite series of digits. 22:30:35 (in Haskell, of course, the two are equivalent. ;)) 22:30:48 pikhq: problem with digits is you have to pick a base, and that sucks. 22:30:58 Yes, yes it does. 22:31:12 and computations can't be compared. 22:31:30 Indeed. 22:31:45 :( 22:31:48 An infinite series of digits may be compared, but if they're equal, the comparison will never terminate. 22:32:05 so how does creal do it? 22:32:15 it says it don't but it do. 22:32:22 estoppel: oh. in that case use continued fractions. no base involved. 22:32:35 "Also the (==) function returns false if the two CReals are different, and does not terminate if the two CReals have the same value." 22:32:36 Heh. 22:32:43 yes 22:32:47 but it works in lambdabot 22:32:47 dammit. 22:33:03 oerjan: hmm can continued fractions represent rationals? 22:33:12 estoppel: it may be using a cutoff? 22:33:19 oerjan: that would be Evil, I'm sure not. 22:33:27 estoppel: sure, they are _finite_ continued fractions 22:33:38 that's no continued fraction :D 22:33:52 oerjan: It's infinite, actually. 22:34:09 And an infinite number of them have 0 in the numerator. 22:34:10 :P 22:34:12 oerjan: but (significand,exponent) is a bit more efficient than using continued fractions for rationals 22:34:19 * oerjan swats pikhq -----### 22:35:36 estoppel: well you could use a mixed representation 22:35:42 that's so unclean :( 22:36:04 well (significand,exponent) sucks anyway because it's quite close to picking a base 22:36:20 also it doesn't handle infinite-didget endowed rationals 22:36:24 *digit 22:36:27 i forgot now to spell digit... 22:37:01 erm rationals don't have infinite digits 22:37:13 that's, uh, a good point 22:37:23 oerjan: well that's true if you can pick a base 22:37:26 er 22:37:32 err 22:37:34 * oerjan swats himself -----### 22:37:34 you're full of bullshit 22:37:36 on second thoughts 22:37:36 :D 22:37:37 scratch that 22:37:47 i just took it as right 22:37:51 'cuz, like, you're a mathematician 22:38:02 didn't wanna look stupid. 22:38:04 i was thinking numerator/denumerator 22:38:09 *denominator 22:38:41 oerjan: errr 1/3 22:38:58 i see 2 digits there, in total :D 22:39:22 oerjan: oh 22:39:24 lol 22:39:39 anyway right, you can't represent that as (significand,exponent) 22:39:41 hmmm 22:39:43 -!- FireyFly has joined. 22:40:00 1/3 = 0 + 1/3 22:40:00 :-D 22:40:14 (as a ... non-continued fraction) 22:40:27 well that's good then 22:40:33 continued fractions reduce to rationals 22:41:02 oerjan: is there a name for 0.01101110010111011110001001…? 22:41:19 that is, 0.{all integers from 0 up, in binary, concatenated} 22:41:46 hm not any i know 22:41:52 hmm wait 22:41:59 I get how 1/x reduces obviously with a continued fraction 22:42:05 now i need to figure out how to do 2/3 that way 22:42:18 euclidean algorithm essentially 22:42:34 2/3 = 1/(3/2) etc. 22:42:57 oerjan: that sounds dangerously Slow with a capital S. 22:43:07 how so? 22:43:22 it's the algorithm with divmod too 22:43:28 not just subtraction 22:43:29 oerjan: calculating n/m is O(whatever euclidean is), not O(1) 22:43:39 well sure 22:43:40 with (n,m) representation, it's O(1) 22:43:44 obviously 22:43:49 oerjan: hmm 22:43:58 oerjan: what about continued fractions, but instead of just 1 as the numerator, 22:43:59 any integer? 22:44:05 bignums aren't really O(1) anyhow :D 22:44:10 then it just reduces to 2/3 = 0 + 2/3 22:44:15 indeed that's the subject of the post I linked 22:44:19 http://www.catonmat.net/blog/on-the-linear-time-algorithm-for-finding-fibonacci-numbers/ 22:44:25 oerjan: but would that modification change anything? 22:44:27 I wouldn't think so 22:45:22 i don't know how much it changes, it's not like i've tried implementing arithmetic operations on c.f. of either kind 22:45:34 those with only 1 are called simple, iirc 22:45:43 data CF = Add Integer CF | Div Integer CF | Zero 22:45:57 er, wait 22:46:01 we need two types 22:46:21 one thing it messes up is uniqueness of representation, obviously 22:46:32 oerjan: what's wrong with that if the representation isn't exposed? 22:46:52 it may make it harder to do comparisons? 22:46:56 well duh 22:47:06 oerjan: i'll just have a "simplify" function 22:48:41 oerjan: hmm an issue is that I can't `show` irrationals 22:49:10 a cutoff seems inevitable 22:49:34 oerjan: but entering "fullPi" in a REPL and getting an infinite output would be such fun :D 22:49:49 with infinite digits I can do that, with continued fractions not :< 22:49:59 infinite digits has less dependencies, essentially 22:50:06 whereas continued fractions have infinite dependencies 22:50:18 estoppel: you can have a showFull function, of course 22:50:32 oerjan: of type showFull :: CF -> String? 22:50:36 then why can't I have show :: CF -> String? 22:50:39 it can be infinite, you know 22:50:51 it's just that ordinary show is used for embedding things in larger data structures, so you need it to end if you want to show the rest of it 22:50:56 like for (CF, CF) 22:51:02 ahh 22:51:07 I thought you meant it was really impossible :) 22:51:11 oerjan: but I can't end it eg for pi 22:51:15 since they're infinite 22:51:27 there'll never be a Read CF that covers everything 22:51:36 well you've got to make a choice then 22:51:37 oerjan: a cutoff is reasonable, though 22:51:40 for Show 22:52:00 oerjan: not sure how to encode it though; show is stateless 22:52:03 i guess show = myShow 22:52:05 i guess show = myShow 0 rather 22:53:05 oerjan: i think a simplified continued fraction is best 22:53:11 oerjan: so I have one representation, except I won't 22:53:33 oerjan: because you can always make an infinite representation, can't you? 22:53:37 wait, not with 1/ 22:53:39 right? 22:53:50 there is also the question that some numbers are undecidable to print to complete representation 22:54:00 really? 22:54:03 or wait 22:54:24 actually the undecidability might happen already when calculating the c.f. 22:54:42 right 22:54:59 like when doing x - x 22:55:35 oerjan: this doesn't sound nice or fluffy to me. 22:55:46 estoppel: pikhq mentioned you could just append 0's. 1/(0+1/(0+... 22:55:56 um 22:56:00 oerjan: that makes > show 3 → "3<> 22:56:04 that may not be it 22:56:15 oerjan: he was talking about unrestricted numerator. 22:56:32 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:56:34 oerjan: with restricted-to-1 numerator, you need a special base case 22:56:40 hm 22:56:46 data CF = Add Integer OneDiv | Zero 22:56:47 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF 22:56:51 ↑ pretty sure this representation is unique 22:56:58 well actually, no 22:57:01 Add 0 foo 22:57:14 oerjan: if I make sure that the Integer in Add is >=1, that representation is unique, isn't it? 22:57:21 all rational and irrational numbers have one representation 22:57:59 um you are missing numbers 0 <= ... < 1 there... 22:58:31 oerjan: ah, right 22:58:36 oerjan: but assuming numbers <1 don't exist 22:58:42 that's unique, right? 22:58:51 actually 22:58:56 yeah 22:58:58 just answer the q :P 22:59:05 probably 22:59:17 -!- olsner has joined. 22:59:44 er 22:59:51 you have infinity in there 23:00:00 i think Zero is in the wrong place 23:00:02 if it's impossible to get unique representations for all rational and irrational numbers, please do tell me, btw 23:00:11 also, you're right. 23:00:40 estoppel: I strongly suspect it's possible to get unique representations for all rational numbers. 23:00:46 pikhq: well i know that 23:00:48 what about irrationals 23:01:01 The irrational numbers cannot necessarily be represented. 23:01:03 but you also want to disallow one of 0 + 1/1 or 1 23:01:29 pikhq: computable irrationals 23:02:05 estoppel: Then it's obvious that there's a unique representation for them. 23:02:32 good 23:02:34 data CF = Add Integer OneDiv 23:02:35 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF | Zero 23:02:35 -!- FireyFly has quit (Connection timed out). 23:02:57 oerjan: so from this what constraints do we use? i want to include negative numbers and 0 here 23:02:58 no cheating 23:03:28 negative numbers needs sign somehow 23:03:41 oerjan: Add (-2) Zero 23:03:59 that's just going to mess up things 23:04:03 it is? 23:04:11 oh well maybe not 23:04:20 but you already disallowed Add 0 _ 23:04:30 oerjan: btw we can still represent 1/0 23:04:39 Add 0 (OneDiv (Add 0 Zero)) 23:04:47 -!- M0ny has quit. 23:04:47 NULLITY! 23:04:57 er so you allow 0? 23:05:02 oh well 23:05:02 oerjan: oops 23:05:18 oerjan: ok, no zero allowed 23:05:27 data CF = Add {-(/= 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:05:27 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF | Zero 23:05:32 is our current constraint set 23:05:35 you seriously need a data type that is >= 1 only 23:05:46 oerjan: yes, but I'm not using bloody peano 23:05:51 gmp is nice :P 23:05:58 oerjan: these constructors aren't public, anyawy 23:05:58 and use it in OneDiv 23:05:59 anyway 23:06:02 so nobody else can access them 23:06:15 oerjan: well, what would I do? 23:06:28 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:06:55 require >= 1 integer in CF there 23:07:12 and have another data type for all reals 23:07:26 oerjan: 23:06 oerjan: require >= 1 integer in CF there ;; with what? I don't really want to, as gmp is fast. 23:08:29 well you'll just have to have runtime assertion then 23:08:42 oerjan: what does that buy me? nothing at all 23:08:52 over just not writing (Add n) without checking n isn't 0 23:08:59 estoppel: i'm not saying literally 23:09:06 eh? 23:09:18 oerjan: "{-(/ 0)-} Integer" is my pet constraint description convention 23:09:20 */= 23:09:44 i mean if you insist on using Integers, while c.f.'s are based on naturals, then you'll have to have runtime assumptions 23:10:17 well yeah 23:10:18 that's fine 23:10:18 also, you seriously don't want 1/(-1 + 1/...) to occur 23:10:43 oerjan: hrm why not? 23:10:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:10:57 no uniqueness whatsoever? 23:11:01 ah 23:11:17 weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell 23:11:37 oerjan: can all negative reals be represented as -real? 23:11:48 sure, duh 23:11:54 oh 23:11:55 duh 23:11:56 XD 23:12:20 oerjan: ok, 23:12:20 data Add = Add {-(> 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:12:21 data OneDiv = OneDiv Add | Zero 23:12:23 data CF = Positive Add | Negative Add 23:12:29 other constraints, i assume, must be applied. 23:12:51 CF needs a few more cases 23:13:06 you are missing all of (-1, 1) i think 23:13:20 oerjan: you mean like 0.4? 23:13:28 yes 23:13:30 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:13:40 oerjan: right you are. that's why I have > 0 there. 23:13:46 unfortunately, solving one problem introduces another. 23:13:55 oerjan: do you mean like adding | MinusOne Add? 23:13:58 so 23:14:09 MinusOne (Add 1 (OneDiv (Add 2 Zero))) 23:14:11 → 0.5 23:15:00 that certainly destroys uniqueness again 23:15:14 oerjan: right you are. 23:15:14 0.4 is logically contained in OneDiv 23:15:25 oerjan: no it's not, due to the Add dependency 23:15:34 yes it is 23:15:39 how 23:15:53 "we've made it easy to re-enable the beta label for Gmail from the Labs tab under Settings" 23:15:57 hahahaha 23:16:02 0.4 = 1/(2.5) ? 23:16:13 ais523: zzo anyone? 23:16:37 oerjan: hmm 23:16:48 oerjan: yes, because 4.0 = 1 / (0.25) 23:16:49 oerjan: is 2.5 contained in Add, though? 23:16:53 also you need to be careful about negative zero 23:16:57 estoppel: of course 23:17:06 oerjan: so I don't miss (-1,1). 23:17:09 Add is all x >= 1 23:17:30 oerjan: 23:16 oerjan: 0.4 = 1/(2.5) ? 23:17:32 you said it yourself 23:17:44 but 0.4 is _not_ contained in Add 23:17:53 Add and OneDiv are disjoint 23:17:55 oerjan: ah. right 23:18:10 oerjan: this is terribly confusing 23:18:38 that's because you're trying too hard to make a small number of elegant cases, i think 23:18:47 oerjan: not really 23:19:00 oerjan: i just keep having to restructure as you come up with more things :D 23:19:04 Add as >= 1 is fine 23:19:53 data Add = Add {-(> 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:19:56 so that is still correct? 23:20:03 sort of 23:20:21 oerjan: "sort of"? 23:20:25 problem is you want something that is OneDiv except Zero 23:20:33 data OneDiv = OneDiv Add | Zero 23:20:34 got that 23:20:49 otherwise you get a negative Zero when putting things together the obvious way 23:21:04 oh, you mean Negative (Add 0 Zero)? 23:21:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 23:21:22 Add 0 Zero does not exist 23:21:26 oops 23:21:31 oerjan: so we DON'T have negative zero 23:21:36 so quit yer yappin' bout it! 23:21:44 estoppel: you have not put everything together yet 23:21:55 you are still missing (-1, 1) in the final datatype 23:22:01 true. and i won't for, say, 12 hours. buh bye! thanks for your help. 23:22:02 → 23:22:13 * oerjan swats estoppel -----### 23:22:17 -!- amuck_ has quit. 23:22:22 JUST BE THAT WAY :D 23:22:50 -!- estoppel has changed nick to ehird. 23:24:29 * pikhq jaw-drops 23:24:37 IE usage is now down to 56% overall. 23:25:00 link 23:25:25 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 23:25:38 You go away. No. 23:25:54 but, link? 23:28:08 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:29:32 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:31:45 -!- coppro has joined. 23:34:28 hmm... latest browser news: statistics show IE market share dropped 8% in a month, nobody believes them 23:34:47 the web statistic sites are assuming it's some sort of error in the way the data was collected 23:35:03 well 46% of all statisticians are liars, anyway 2009-07-08: 00:00:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:13:15 ais523, link? 00:15:14 AnMaster: I saw it on Slashdot 00:15:17 it's probably still there 00:15:46 the links are http://marketshare.hitslink.com/status.aspx and http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-na-daily-20080701-20090707, apparently, but I didn't follow them 00:15:58 people don't actually follow links at Slashdot, they just read the summary 00:16:24 last I looked slashdot was large 00:16:57 Slashdot is fucking huge. 00:19:11 so where on slashdot ais523 00:19:19 AnMaster: main page 00:19:25 probably near the top 00:19:51 third entry atm 00:23:09 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:24:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:26:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 00:26:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:27:06 o_< 00:27:09 I suspect I know the cause 00:27:29 new major firefox version release. Thus some clients counted more than once, once for old user agent, once for new 00:27:33 ais523, plausible? 00:27:46 ooh, could be plausible 00:27:57 except that it was a drop in IE, rather than a rise in Firefox 00:27:57 > fun.cycle$"lambda! "::Expr 00:27:59 lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lam... 00:28:00 lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lam... 00:28:03 the drop was filled by Firefox, Safari and Chrome 00:28:06 ais523, ah ok 00:28:10 what the? 00:28:13 so not just one 00:28:49 test 00:29:12 thutubot: > 2+2 00:29:21 lambdabot: > 2+2 00:29:29 grmbl 00:29:35 lambdabot: @run 2+2 00:29:36 4 00:29:37 4 00:29:43 bah 00:29:57 hm that actually proves nothing 00:30:16 4 00:30:35 um 00:30:46 ais523 might be able to explain it 00:30:57 iirc thutubot is his bit 00:30:58 bot* 00:31:00 oh wait 00:31:09 4 00:31:11 @run 2+2 00:31:12 4 00:31:12 4 00:31:29 @vixen who are you? 00:31:29 what do you mean, i'm me! 00:31:30 what do you mean, i'm me! 00:31:35 err 00:31:43 @vixen how do you feel? 00:31:43 however you want 00:31:44 however you want 00:31:47 ais523, care to explain what the hell is going on 00:32:03 @vixen Microoptimisation of gnomes 00:32:03 wanna hear a story? 00:32:03 wanna hear a story? 00:32:22 hm lessee 00:32:24 AnMaster: someone's /msging thutubot 00:32:35 like this 00:32:35 ais523, that quickly? 00:32:36 @dice 1d3 00:32:36 1d3 => 3 00:32:37 1d3 => 3 00:32:44 ais523, how strange 00:32:54 why would someone set up a lambdabot -> thutubot relay? 00:33:01 because it's funny? 00:33:01 ais523, can you tell us who? 00:33:14 and not easily, thutubot isn't saving debug data anywhere 00:33:18 AFAIR 00:33:19 ais523, not particularly 00:33:28 ais523, stdout? 00:33:46 also how did you produce the "like this"? 00:33:59 as in 00:34:01 what command 00:34:06 and prefix 00:34:33 or just using +ul? 00:34:38 +ul (test)S 00:34:38 test 00:34:45 test 00:34:45 no 00:34:47 wait yes 00:34:49 heh 00:35:03 ok, that is weird 00:35:06 ais523, why not return it to sender? 00:35:12 /msg thutubot +ul (test)S 00:35:18 returns it to channel 00:35:20 not sender 00:35:22 thutubot is printing everything sent to it, and people haven't been /msging it until I suggested it 00:35:45 @dice 1d3 00:35:46 @dice 1d3 00:35:47 1d3 => 2 00:35:47 1d3 => 2 00:35:52 ais523, what happened just there 00:36:25 ok, that is weird; thutubot didn't see itself sending that 00:36:31 +ul test 00:36:47 oh, but it isn't seeing its own sends anyway 00:36:54 ahaha, I've figured it out 00:37:00 it's thutubot's +haskell command 00:37:04 +haskell 2+2 00:37:15 it's meant to send the message to lambdabot, then relay the response 00:37:18 it's broken, though 00:37:26 ais523, ouch 00:37:27 ah! 00:37:34 in two ways: a) it isn't sending on to lambdabot, and b) it's repeating everything lambdabot says 00:37:36 broken both ways 00:45:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:50:10 -!- immibis has joined. 00:56:16 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:05:07 -!- darthnuri has quit (No route to host). 01:05:44 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 01:17:47 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:17:53 -!- darthnuri has joined. 01:37:09 -!- darthnuri has quit (Connection timed out). 01:37:54 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 01:38:04 -!- immibis has quit ("ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!"). 01:59:07 -!- inurinternet has joined. 02:04:42 -!- darthnuri has joined. 02:09:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:26:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:27:15 -!- oklodol has joined. 02:39:43 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 02:43:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:43:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:44:10 -!- oklodok has quit (Success). 02:48:27 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 02:57:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:29:14 -!- lifthrasiir has changed nick to arachneng. 04:29:26 -!- arachneng has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 04:57:18 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:03:00 -!- coppro has joined. 06:04:10 -!- Associat0r has joined. 06:15:54 http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html 06:15:56 :-S 06:18:29 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:21:24 -!- coppro has joined. 06:30:54 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 06:32:09 -!- coppro has joined. 06:53:22 Deewiant: just another crucial step in google's plot to take over the world.. muahaha. 07:02:24 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has joined. 07:15:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:45:23 -!- chuck has left (?). 09:16:10 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:19:20 -!- Associ8or has joined. 09:20:02 fizzie: Five in GMP, I mean. It is rather unlikely there would be no others. <<< you can get an infinite descent of asymptotically better multiplication algos by extending the divide-and-conquer method of karatsuba; but i don't know how fft is done for numbers, if it's O(n lg n) it's beyond that descent 09:20:16 i thought fft only made sense for polys 09:21:04 http://numbers.computation.free.fr/Constants/Algorithms/fft.html has a shortish explanation. 09:22:58 And actually the GMP manual explains what they do, too. 09:29:45 estoppel: pikhq: problem with digits is you have to pick a base, and that sucks. <<< you can use other kinds of series, like continued fractions; but really there's no need to have an explicit representation until you print 09:29:59 oerjan: estoppel: oh. in that case use continued fractions. no base involved. <<< right, i was already here 09:35:41 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:36:26 -!- Pthing has joined. 09:36:55 -!- Associat0r has quit (Connection timed out). 09:37:26 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:44:04 fizzie: what year is that idea from? 09:44:37 i thought there was no known n lg n for multiplication, even though i knew fft does that for polynomials 09:45:52 The Schönhage and Strassen paper referred to in the GMP manual are from 1971, but I haven't actually read it, so I don't know what they promise w.r.t. multiplication. 09:47:13 hmm 09:47:34 okay right, seems you can reduce the multiplication to multiplication of polynomials 09:48:02 s/are/is/ there. 09:49:37 oh, that was the problem, i thought i saw something weird there 09:50:17 "and a final rearrangement on the coefficients of R(z) permits to obtain the product XY" what rearrangement? 09:51:19 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:02:05 I would peek at the 1971 paper, but based on the title -- "Schnelle Multiplikation grosser Zahlen" -- it is probably in German. And that other page refers to a paper called "Multiplication en le Lisp" in French. 10:02:29 I'm sure there's a less overviewy explanation in the tubes, though. 10:02:51 http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html <-- Is it based on linux or from scratch? 10:02:53 i think i already decrypted the page 10:02:58 from scratch 10:03:07 ah wait 10:03:11 it says linux there 10:03:13 at least that's the impression i got 10:03:16 alright 10:03:26 "The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel." 10:04:22 So basically you can't use it where there is no internet connection I guess 10:04:27 well, i don't see the relevance of that info, so i guess i wouldn't remember the fact either. 10:06:46 AnMaster: it's made for "people who live on the net" 10:07:15 oklodol, yes right, but what if you are traveling and there happen to be no public wlan where you are or such. 10:07:24 and no mobile phone connection either 10:08:27 you'd think there's some offline happenings too. but i just took a glance at the public info thingie. 10:08:29 Then you should be getting out of such a dark place. 10:08:36 With rapidity. 10:08:42 also what fizzie said 10:08:57 I was travelling by train from Kiruna (in north Sweden) down to the south parts of Sweden a few weeks ago. Except around the towns the mobile phone mostly reported no connection or extremely bad one. 10:09:06 and I have Telia 10:09:08 you can't swim if internet don't stream 10:09:12 which is known for good coverage. 10:09:50 statisticians say 97% of finland is covered by connective flow. 10:09:53 I don't remember when I've last been outside GPRS coverage; of course online activities at "a kilobyte every now and then" speeds might not be so pleasant. 10:10:02 fizzie, that was outside GSM even! 10:11:01 and since my phone tends to switch over to some other carrier and say "emergency calls only" if Telia isn't reachable but even that didn't happen, I assume outside all coverage. 10:13:08 most of the distance between Kiruna and Boden there was no coverage at all 10:13:10 The page I found about the 97 % GSM coverage is from 2001, they might've improved that a tiny bit. Anyway, if you don't get the internets, it's your own fault for going to such a silly place. 10:13:20 umm 10:13:27 it actually *is* 97? 10:13:41 oklodol: It was, according to http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp/akxtmp/kk_945_2001_p.shtml 10:13:50 i basically just let the flow tell the coverage to me. 10:13:51 fizzie, oh in Finland? 10:13:52 Well, for Sonera's GSM network. 10:13:55 Not worldwide 10:13:59 i just felt it 10:14:06 Yes, I have no idea about other places. 10:14:39 i wonder if i can feel statistics correct nowadays. 10:14:42 Still, I'm sure the thing will have at least some offline functionality. 10:14:55 in south Sweden I tend to get at least one "dot" on the connection quality indicator thingy on the phone 10:15:01 everywhere 10:15:27 I guess there is probably still some out-of-GSM-coverage areas up there in Lapland. 10:15:38 fizzie, quite a lot even 10:16:34 3% of finland is not that much 10:16:48 Well, I don't know about "lot". They do claim that 97 % is geographically speaking, not "amount of people", so... 10:16:49 In Sweden I meant 10:17:22 Well, start building base stations then! 10:18:34 fizzie, right, probably will cover one house each at most... Up there you can go on for miles without seeing a single house, or even a road crossing the railway. 10:19:21 If we've managed to cover 97 % (at least) of our surface area, you should too. 10:19:28 possibly worth it along the railroad/railway (what is the diff? Is one US and one UK?), but apart from that it wouldn't be economically viable I bet. 10:19:58 it's not about viability 10:20:03 it's about ability 10:20:29 oklodol, who pays? 10:20:42 taxpayers? 10:21:13 the gov owns Sonera? 10:21:34 i suggest taxpayers pay straight to sonera. 10:22:55 Can't seem to find very specific information about the current situation here. From what I've seen, a single station can cover a reasonably large distance if you stick it on top of a fell, if you don't mind the fact that some of the valley-like parts get left out. 10:23:34 i do mind 10:24:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:24:23 fizzie, I think large parts up there, are "nationalparker" 10:24:28 not sure what that is in English 10:24:43 same 10:24:50 If you want to see Sonera's map, it's at http://mobileplaza.sonera.fi/matkapuhelin/kuuluvuus_kotimaassa.html -- it is clickable for closer look, and the colors for the detailed maps are: white = no-coverage, grey = needs-an-external-antenna, blue = normal GSM/GPRS, yellow = EDGE, green = 3G things. 10:25:29 Not too much white in there, but still some. 10:25:30 protected areas of nature, you aren't allowed to do anything that will change it basically. 10:25:58 fizzie, what is EDGE? 10:26:22 It's some sort of GPRS speed-upgrade, I think it was called "2.5G" somewhere too. 10:26:31 "Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution". 10:26:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE 10:27:10 mhm 10:27:18 "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s --" though that's very much a theoretical thing only. 10:29:35 The 3G coverage is rather poor, though, pretty much cities only. 10:30:26 And special places; it seems they've stuck a single 3G base station at the Koli ski resort place, for example. 10:30:38 heh 10:30:52 is that some famous tourist attraction or such? 10:31:23 Well, maybe not "famous" but I guess it's reasonably popular. 10:31:51 Famous enough to have a Wikipedia article about it (well, not the ski resort, but the adjacent national park): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koli_National_Park 10:34:15 ok 10:34:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:34:31 oh so it is national park in English too? 10:34:33 hi ais523 10:34:36 hi 10:34:57 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:35:31 and "national park" is certainly a concept in English 10:35:31 although I can't tell if it's the same one you're referring to without more context 10:36:08 After the shutting-down of the ages-old 450 MHz analog NMT mobile phone network, they've reused that frequency range for the "@450" mobile broadband (1M/512k) which I guess has a better coverage than the 3G; 90 % of population, though that translates to some much lower percentage of geographical area. 10:37:06 protected area of nature, you aren't allowed to do basically anything that can change it with some exceptions. 10:37:21 Maybe "ages-old" is a bit of an exaggeration: "The world's first NMT call was made in Tampere, Finland, in 1978.[1] The NMT network was opened in Sweden and Norway in 1981, and in Denmark and Finland in 1982." 10:38:12 If you want an "official definition" for a national park, I guess this listing suffices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Commission_on_Protected_Areas 10:38:20 Everyday use might differ, there you have to ask one of the natives. 10:45:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:46:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:49:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:49:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:50:19 wb ais523 10:50:32 thanks 10:50:39 The term "concerning" shall mean relating to, referring to, reflecting, describing, evidencing, referencing, discussing or constituting. 10:52:25 ooh, and Google are writing their own OS, using Linux's kernel (and presumably drivers, etc.) but none of the rest of the stuff that's normally used together with the kernel 10:53:07 If you logread, you'd know it was the original source for what led to the "national park" discussion. 10:53:11 But you don't. Woe is you! 10:53:26 no, I don't normally have the focus to logread 10:53:40 If I were one of them IBM's lawyers, I'd add "concering" itself somewhere in the middle of that list. 10:53:46 fizzie: haha 10:59:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:00:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:03:46 wb ais523 11:05:17 AnMaster: oh so it is national park in English too? <<< what part of "same" did you not understand 11:05:31 oklodol, where did you say it was the same? 11:05:44 12:24… AnMaster: not sure what that is in English 11:05:45 12:24… oklodol: same 11:06:26 oklodol, ah, missed that 11:06:45 oklodol: You are so terse. 11:06:54 I didn't see the "same" either. 11:07:15 Why does that sound like an insult? "Ha ha, you're so terse!" 11:07:24 because terse also means stupid 11:07:38 Wordnet only lists: # S: (adj) crisp, curt, laconic, terse (brief and to the point; effectively cut short) "a crisp retort"; "a response so curt as to be almost rude"; "the laconic reply; `yes'"; "short and terse and easy to understand" 11:07:43 But I guess it could. 11:07:59 hmm. 11:08:15 "You're not one of those tersies, are you?" 11:08:19 at least something very close to it means stupid, or is used that way. 11:08:41 or your pun just deceived my brain 11:08:44 well 11:08:56 i guess it wouldn't have been a pun then 11:10:09 ah it's dense. 11:10:12 that took quite a while 11:10:37 possibly because i didn't think about it, but still 11:21:50 I had written that word already, then decided not to mention it for some reason. 11:22:07 Also I typoed "I had written that world already" first. Meaningful? 11:22:32 why would it be+ 11:22:33 ? 11:38:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:38:52 hi oogie! 11:40:09 hi oclum 11:40:30 i'm feeling glemifandulous. 11:41:16 well that _does_ sort of sound like a problem with the brain, possibly the language center... 11:43:12 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 11:43:21 superglio 11:44:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glial_cell 11:45:23 i'm not sure how that's helpful 11:45:43 i've told numerous times there's a well-known connection between all that is gli and all that is glue. 11:46:03 okokokokokoko 11:46:04 yeah they sort of stick together 11:46:11 okokokokokokokokoko 11:46:14 oerjan: you're funny 11:46:18 okokokokokokokokokokokoko 11:46:21 okokokokokokokokoko 11:46:22 okokokokokokokoko 11:46:25 okokokokokokokokookokokokokoko 11:50:10 oklodol: that's easy when you have perfect straight men 11:50:28 O-cock-o. 11:50:36 rococo 11:51:54 i'm not sure i get it even with fizzie's explanaiton 11:51:56 *explanation 11:51:59 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:52:16 What exploitation? 11:52:35 you should really buy those oculatory aids. 11:54:36 -!- dbc has quit (Client Quit). 11:57:34 -!- dbc has joined. 12:00:28 Also I typoed "I had written that world already" first. Meaningful? 12:00:33 Hah; since GPRS is called "2.5G" by some, and not everyone counts EDGE as "3G" since it's so sucky, some people apparently seriously refer to EDGE as a "2.75G" technology. 12:00:41 clearly you have subconscious delusions of grandeur 12:01:26 Where will it end? Soon there'll be a πG thing. 12:01:58 * oerjan assumes that character is a pi 12:02:35 for texnological reasons 12:02:38 Yes, that's what it should be. 12:03:14 looks like a pi here 12:04:54 * oerjan is too lazy to go back to the logs to check right after he closed the page 12:05:50 and of course you all know already i'm too lazy to set up unicode correctly 12:16:51 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 12:38:01 -!- AnMaster has quit (Success). 12:38:27 -!- M0ny has quit. 12:43:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:45:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 12:45:19 -!- MizardX has quit ("What are you sinking about?"). 13:06:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:14:01 -!- oklodol has changed nick to ogliopol. 13:33:15 okay don't copy that was awesome :D 14:18:30 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:18:39 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 14:22:37 -!- Associ8or has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 14:29:26 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:29:33 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 14:35:29 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:46:23 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:58:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 15:01:46 -!- Associat0r has joined. 15:25:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:37:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:51:17 glia 15:51:41 i should get lilja to start saying flia. 15:51:42 *glia 15:53:28 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:56:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:06:29 -!- darthnuri has quit (Connection timed out). 16:09:42 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:09:45 -!- darthnuri has joined. 16:20:48 o 16:20:48 o 16:21:18 -!- inurinternet has quit (Client Quit). 16:24:26 oko 16:24:45 okokokokoko 16:24:58 okokokokokokokokokokoko 16:25:10 anyone speak italian here? 16:25:11 hmm... I thought the next one would have 24 os 16:25:41 1, 1, 2, 6, 24? 16:25:46 or just 2, 6, 24 16:33:53 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:34:00 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:12:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:13:21 -!- MizardX- has joined. 17:13:26 -!- MizardX has quit (Connection reset by peer). 17:13:54 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 17:36:28 -!- ogliopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:47:00 -!- MizardX- has joined. 17:47:06 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:47:33 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 18:14:49 -!- coppro has joined. 18:21:09 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:21:58 -!- coppro has joined. 18:54:36 -!- darthnuri has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:59:13 -!- MizardX has quit (Connection timed out). 19:19:45 -!- olsner has joined. 19:25:16 am i ehird or estoppel? 19:25:17 ehird 19:25:21 both 19:27:18 15:24:37 IE usage is now down to 56% overall. 19:27:28 yeah suure 19:27:30 what's the stats from 19:27:32 firefox.com? 19:27:34 ehird: it dropped 8% in a month, as a result nobody believes the statistics 19:27:36 *where's 19:27:53 and at least three of the major web stats people noticed it, but assumed it was something giving an incorrect reasing 19:27:54 *reading 19:27:55 ais523: the kind of websites to release such statistics tend to not be frequented by IE users 19:28:00 and tbh, I think it's something like that too 19:28:01 so I'd say it's bullshit 19:28:24 a drop that sudden is unbelievable, something must have confused the browser detection 19:28:46 ais523: google started running Chrome ads on TV in the usa... 19:28:50 i just remembered 19:28:58 sounds like we've found our culprit. maybe. 19:29:09 yep, but firefox, chrome, and safari all stayed in proportion to each other 19:29:12 i wondered why at the time, now it's obvious innit, chrome os 19:29:20 ais523: hmm, true 19:29:47 someone mentioned that that was about the release of IE8; IE8 taking 8% from IE7 is sort-of believable, and it could be that something's messed up in typical IE8 detection 19:30:28 yay we have lambdabot now 19:30:34 > 2+2 19:30:35 4 19:30:36 4 19:30:36 ^__^ 19:30:46 * ehird wonders why thutubot is mirroring lambdabot 19:30:57 16:32:24 AnMaster: someone's /msging thutubot 19:31:07 ais523: thutubot is misinterpreting lambdabot's response as a message I think 19:31:28 /msg doesn't even do anything 19:31:39 16:37:15 it's meant to send the message to lambdabot, then relay the response 19:31:40 16:37:18 it's broken, though 19:31:41 ehird: it wasn't that, we found the correct answer eventually 19:31:41 lol 19:31:50 ais523: remove it then, so it doesn't make using lambdabot annoying? 19:31:58 +haskell that is 19:32:02 after all, it is just a cheap joke 19:32:04 but msging thutubot with instructions does reply to #esoteric 19:32:55 02:04:22 So basically you can't use it where there is no internet connection I guess 19:32:55 02:07:15 oklodol, yes right, but what if you are traveling and there happen to be no public wlan where you are or such. 19:33:05 yeaaaaah in a few years everyone will have mobile broadband. 19:33:20 designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud 19:34:09 ehird: I don't even have a regular mobile phone 19:34:19 ais523: mobile broadband has nothing to do with mobiles 19:34:24 apart from usually being over the same network 19:34:31 ehird: and both costing insanely large amounts of money 19:34:45 ais523: you have a queer definition of insane 19:34:58 it's some pounds a month 19:35:56 02:27:18 "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s --" though that's very much a theoretical thing only. 19:36:04 EDGE can carry 236kbits my ass. 19:36:07 It's a bit better than dialup. 19:36:41 02:37:06 protected area of nature, you aren't allowed to do basically anything that can change it with some exceptions. 19:36:43 shit 19:36:46 so nobody can walk in them? 19:36:58 and it has to be stored at 0K 19:37:04 damn you chaos theory! DAMN YOU ENTROPY! 19:37:32 02:53:26 no, I don't normally have the focus to logread 19:37:36 there was something about something 19:37:40 that i directed at you if you logread 19:37:41 lemme grep 19:37:50 11:50:31 I wish ais523 logread. 19:37:50 11:50:36 "One thing I found puzzling was that the Brits consistently apologized for and/or denigrated Birmingham." 19:37:52 11:50:41 —Bruce Eckel, http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=261930 19:38:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:38:54 oklodol is so glio. 19:39:08 gliissimo 19:39:29 04:00:33 Hah; since GPRS is called "2.5G" by some, and not everyone counts EDGE as "3G" since it's so sucky, some people apparently seriously refer to EDGE as a "2.75G" technology. 19:39:35 piG. 19:39:43 It's marginally better than 3G, but costs pi more moneys a month. 19:39:51 oh, fizzie said that 19:39:55 damn logs corruptin' 19:40:21 better than exponential corruption 19:40:29 HURF HURF DURF TURF 19:40:46 * oerjan does the heimlich maneuver on ehird 19:40:55 and you say you're not gay. 19:41:12 * oerjan wonders when he said that 19:41:18 or the opposite 19:41:41 i should ask colin percival if i could get a bulk discount on tarsnap; i don't particularly feel like paying $696 a month if I feel like filling up my entire future 2.32TB harddrives with completely uncompressable, 100% random data 19:42:01 PER BACKUP! PLUS BANDWIDTH! 19:42:04 oh the huge manatee. 19:46:23 designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud 19:46:39 19:46 oerjan: designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud 19:46:40 you should account for temporary net loss, certainly 19:46:46 of a few minutes. 19:47:07 it's not unthinkable that in ten years, an area without internet would be considered dangerous 19:47:14 -!- AnMaster has joined. 19:48:18 few minutes? when someone dug into a cable in this neighborhood it certainly took more than a few minutes to fix it... 19:48:53 (i assume they dug into a cable, someone was digging on the main road and internet disappeared, 2+2) 19:49:15 we're more and more dependent on the interwebs. i truly think in a few years that long internet outages will become an unacceptable inconvenience and in a few more it'll be serious 19:49:44 oerjan: pseudo-analogy: it takes more than a few minutes to fix cut power to a city, too. 19:49:57 sure 19:50:02 does that mean we should design everything around not having power? 19:50:04 i think not 19:50:09 hm good point 19:50:21 ehird: ... They're acceptable now? 19:50:39 pikhq: heh :) 19:50:55 pikhq: if all else fails, I'm sure we can send our packets up INTO SPACE 19:51:01 HAVE YOU HEARD, PIKHQ HAS SATELLITE INTERNET! IN SPACE! 19:51:20 of course _big_ telecom disconnects get fixed fast. my father who is a telecom engineer tells me the contracts include some hefty fines... 19:51:30 ehird: netbooks are partly desired because of their long battery life 19:51:35 which means, they are designed around not having power 19:51:41 ais523: no they're not 19:51:45 they're designed around having portable power 19:52:03 guess what mobile internet-based devices are designed around? 19:52:05 having portable internet. 19:52:26 -!- inurinternet has joined. 19:52:45 portable inurinternet. 19:54:58 ais523: has anyone told graue about the undeletable spam? 19:55:16 whoa 19:55:17 clue me in 19:55:19 what's the issue 19:55:28 (should that be undeletable or undeleteable?) 19:55:42 ehird: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra 19:55:45 une deli table 19:55:47 The former 19:55:50 oerjan: how's it undeletable 19:56:02 Or, if you prefer, indelible 19:56:05 ehird: graue put up a spam filter against that sort of thing 19:56:12 *facepalm* 19:56:13 any attempt to edit or delete it triggers the spam filter :D 19:56:17 which means that nobody, not even admins, can do anything even referencing the page 19:56:21 apart from look at it 19:56:24 i might have some ideas 19:56:38 ais523: mediawiki has an XML-RPC interface doesn't it? 19:56:46 ehird: yes, but it isn't enabled on Esolang 19:56:48 I thought of that too 19:56:50 fuck! 19:57:13 can i say, btw, that the spam filter is shit anyway? 19:57:16 it never stops any spam. 19:57:39 ais523: are any of the other APIs enabled? 19:57:58 how is the url escaping of characters again? 19:58:03 not as far as I can tell; the one in core is disabled, and all the others are uninstalled extensions 19:58:03 %hex ? 19:58:03 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra?action=edit§ion=55 19:58:06 ais523: you can edit it 19:58:07 oerjan: %hex, 2 digits 19:58:07 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra?action=edit§ion=55 19:58:10 just have to add a new section 19:58:13 ehird: try previewing 19:58:16 argh 19:58:22 and saving comes to the same thing 19:58:35 my guess is the filter blocks POST but not GET 19:58:39 or maybe, a bit of both 19:58:47 but it seems to block POST consistently, and GET only sometimes 19:58:48 we should really move esolang off that crappy server with the crappy category policy. :P 19:58:55 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra doesn't load any more 19:58:57 whaddidido 19:59:08 now it works but without c ss 19:59:09 css 19:59:22 damn didn't help 19:59:43 the save removed the escape too 19:59:44 hmm 19:59:49 ais523: what actions can you do to pages again? 19:59:58 ehird: yeah i've seen that css thing 20:00:02 off the top of my head, view raw edit delete protect 20:00:07 oh, and history 20:00:08 can you protect it 20:00:11 probably a few more I've forgotten 20:00:19 and I haven't tried protecting it, although that would be rather ridiculous 20:00:33 just try it, hitting buttons won't do any harm at least 20:00:51 famous last words :D 20:01:05 ehird: nope, same problem 20:01:12 in fact, I can't follow any of the links from the protect page 20:01:14 worst case, we lose a few copies of definitions, some literature on them, and a bunch of useless languages :D 20:01:18 the referrer seems to be blocking things 20:01:22 ais523: aha 20:01:24 i was about to say that 20:01:29 ais523: make a POST to delete it without any referer 20:01:34 use a referer blocker or curl or something 20:01:46 let's see if I can find a referer blocker Firefox extension 20:01:58 ais523: refcontrol 20:02:04 ais523: it'd be easier just to use curl imo 20:02:19 ais523: 20:02:21 ais523: http://cafe.elharo.com/privacy/privacy-tip-3-block-referer-headers-in-firefox/ 20:02:28 just set network.http.sendRefererHeader to 0 20:02:31 assuming it's not out of date 20:02:48 ehird: referers are helpful on certain other sites, though 20:02:53 ais523: so turn it off afterwards 20:02:55 a couple of my user scripts rely on them, for instance 20:02:56 it is a one time thing... 20:03:12 but a referer-blocker will be useful, esolang blocks all sorts of random referers for no good reason 20:03:20 meh, ok 20:04:56 "User:454 buy viagra" has been deleted. See deletion log for a record of recent deletions. 20:05:10 \o/ 20:05:15 Precondition Failed 20:05:15 The precondition on the request for the URL /wiki/Special:Recentchanges evaluated to false. 20:05:16 lawl 20:05:25 ok, now /that's/ bad 20:05:34 that was just cuz i came from viagra 20:05:36 errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 20:05:38 reword that 20:05:49 I don't have the perms to remove a deletion log entry 20:05:57 no i mean 20:05:58 referer 20:06:00 was the problem 20:06:01 for me 20:06:05 yep, fair enough 20:06:06 refreshing fixed i 20:06:06 t 20:06:09 good 20:06:19 i think it's mod_security that's fucking up this stuff 20:06:24 i remember on my old shared hosting 20:06:25 what does mod_security do? 20:06:28 you couldn't submit a form saying "Perl" 20:06:38 because perl is sometimes used for programs which you could be attempting to inject, I think 20:06:47 on the wiki I had I did P(bold, unbold)erl 20:06:48 :D 20:06:51 ais523: break things. 20:06:57 in a feeble attempt at securing you. 20:07:03 ehird: learn the tag 20:07:12 ais523: it wasn't mediawiki. 20:07:17 oh, ok 20:07:26 it's a neat no-op, it does the same thing as space in Perl or @ in Cyclexa 20:07:30 *space in Perl6 20:07:46 it's just /**/ 20:07:49 Cyclexa doesn't have an unspace to cancel it out, though, unless you're putting antitext in the original program 20:07:54 ehird: Perl 20:08:00 ehird: /**/ is equivalent to space by definition, at least in C 20:08:03 pikhq: it filtered html out 20:08:12 ais523: well, yes, but is /**/ 20:08:14 for mediawiki 20:08:17 * oerjan bounces around in celebration 20:08:22 ehird: ... But not ? 20:08:36 pikhq: (bold, unbold) is ? 20:08:37 news to me. 20:08:40 pikhq: I'm guessing it was BBcode, which is not XML-like apart from having matching tags 20:08:45 nah 20:08:45 ehird: yes in XML, no in HTML 20:08:48 it was like '''' or something 20:08:59 lemme check 20:09:01 reword that <-- no, let's not do that :D 20:09:03 ais523: I meant, I never said 20:09:17 ais523: it was bbcode, it turns out 20:09:21 so P[b][/b]erl 20:09:35 well, it links with [[foo]] for both external and internal, so not quite bbcode 20:09:43 That's pretty dumb. 20:10:27 [[foo]] was just stolen from mediawiki because it's convenient, the rest was bbcode. 20:10:29 i didn't make the software. 20:10:41 ais523: why did wikipedia's nocover graphic change? 20:10:46 licensing issues with a picture of a bloody cd case? 20:10:53 please say no... 20:11:26 ehird: I don't know the truth, although I'm guessing it's more likely an aesthetics edit war than licensing issues 20:11:40 check the image history, it shouldn't be too hard to find 20:11:59 ais523: it's a separate file; it'll be in the template 20:12:06 ais523: but can you seriously argue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nocover.svg looks nicer than the older one? 20:12:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nocover.png 20:12:24 the old one 20:12:38 ok, maybe it's an image format row 20:12:44 haha 20:13:15 wikipedia is so hopeless 20:13:22 Ei saa peittää 20:14:06 I've seen what happened 20:14:17 to what? wp? 20:14:19 it is related to licensing issues, but not the ones you're thinking of 20:14:28 wwwwwhaaaaaaaat 20:14:38 Hopeless. Hopeless! 20:14:41 basically, there were some rows that the "please upload a cover" image was turning up in cases where it was known that there were no free/fairable covers 20:14:53 ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS 20:14:55 so it was decided to leave the album cover section out altogether by default 20:14:57 Jesus chris 20:14:57 t 20:15:07 now, it's been added back in on many pages 20:15:17 but people are just specifying nocover.svg by hand, guessing the extension 20:15:24 there are probably lots of others that use nocover.png 20:15:35 wow, are you serious? 20:15:37 it's a case of the template not specifying an image, so people have to guess 20:15:43 what a load of bollocks 20:16:09 i remember when you could use fair use images on the main page 20:16:12 a good era that was 20:16:20 ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_Album&diff=196909019&oldid=192528717 20:16:40 ais523: has it occurred to them to add a parameter |shownocover=no for those RARE cases? 20:16:46 no. don't answer. obviously not. 20:16:59 complete failure of rational thinking detected. 20:17:45 ais523: ...answer. I'm curious. 20:18:39 ehird: you'd get people shouting that it was nonstandardised if you did that 20:18:49 (N.B. I am well aware of the contradictions involved here) 20:19:11 do you think the court might make an exception for me if I give every one of these people a lobotomy? 20:19:15 hypothetically, of course. 20:20:11 No jury would convict. 20:20:17 hooray! 20:20:38 * ehird sees someone using #NUMBEROFEDITS-mod-N as a random number generator on wikipedia 20:20:47 it's fast-paced enough that it could actually work... 20:21:41 *NUMBEROFEDITS 20:21:57 well 20:21:59 it seems to be part of #expr 20:24:20 ais523: "It is the very first time Microsofts monopoly over desktop computer OS market is seriously being challenged" 20:24:25 [on chrome os] 20:24:28 [talk:mainpage] 20:24:47 pay no attention to the >10% market share in the corner. 20:31:00 ais523: btw, the next firefox release (or whatever) will parse all html pages with the html 5 parser [you're highlighted because i last highlighted you and i remember you testing ubuntu releases] 20:31:06 [tangential i know] 20:31:26 ehird: it's backwards-compatible enough that it ought to work 20:31:36 and I'll use Firefox 3.5 when it gets into ubuntu-proposed 20:31:42 no, not firefox 3.5, I think 20:31:47 because I'm not in the mood for fiddling with repos right now 20:31:47 the wunafferthat 20:31:51 ah, ok 20:31:54 or maybe not, who knows? 20:32:00 it's about:config in the nightlies, anyway 20:32:09 I'll use that one when it gets to ubuntu-proposed too, if I'm still using that then 20:32:29 http://ejohn.org/blog/html-5-parsing/ 20:32:48 ais523: nightly + set html5.enable to true, accurate as of yesterday 20:33:17 ehird: I don't use nightlies of anything but TAEB and C-INTERCAL 20:33:37 also, cfunge sometimes, but I hardly ever update that 20:33:38 why not? 20:33:46 don't say that, AnMaster will get angry 20:33:53 and because I don't see the need, nightlies just change /too/ quickly for me 20:34:00 and half the time I don't have an internet connection anyway 20:34:10 ehird, why would that make me angry? 20:34:24 AnMaster: you're always telling people to update cfunge or you'll go "la la la" 20:34:47 ais523: oh, and a WTF from that article about the new parser: it's automatically translated from Java to C++ 20:34:51 ehird, about bugs yeah, it is a bit pointless to fix a bug that is already fixed in last version. 20:34:53 because it comes from the validator.nu HTML5 parser 20:35:01 they hand-wrote a Java→C++ translator just for it 20:35:08 ais523: and the end result? 3% faster rendering. from translated java. 20:35:22 3% isn't a lot 20:35:37 although is the Java → C++ translator still around/ 20:35:40 it could come in useful 20:35:43 ais523: speed isn't the point; the point is that machine translating java to C++ somehow sped up hand-written C++ code 20:35:47 and yes, but I think it's tailored just for the project 20:35:48 ehird, every project tends to tell users to use last version when reporting a bug. Since often it is already fixed. 20:35:50 they're going to keep it in-sync 20:36:11 Well, HTML5 parsing shouldn't break anything. 20:36:17 AnMaster: I prefer people to report bugs in future versions before I've written them, to save me the testing trouble 20:36:21 um. Why would auto-translated C++ be faster than hand written? 20:36:24 ais523: it still has System.out.printnl and @Foo, i think they just make classes and #define stuff 20:36:28 AnMaster: because the parser is different 20:36:37 the point is that you'd think translating Java to C++ would result in non-optimal code 20:36:46 After all, most of the HTML5 parsing rules say exactly how you should parse malformed HTML. 20:36:55 ehird, in theory you could hand write code equivalent of the converted one. Note "in theory". 20:37:06 ... no shit 20:37:20 (of course it might be practically infeasible, but since when have we cared about that in this channel) 20:37:30 * ehird dls firefox-3.6a1pre.en-US.mac.dmg 20:37:33 AnMaster: the C++ is human-readable 20:37:43 ehird, ok that is interesting 20:37:46 i'm just saying that you'd expect the mismapping semantics to incur a performance penalty in general 20:37:51 nothing like that generated by lex or yacc then 20:37:55 so it's a surprise it ends up faster than the previous parser 20:38:00 AnMaster: i doubt it works on all java code 20:38:08 http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8b5103cb12a6 20:38:10 here's the diff 20:38:11 which is, (theoretically) human readable. But in practise not. 20:38:18 (note: gigantic) 20:38:37 it just looks like very boring, java-like C++ with some odd stuff that's #define'd away 20:38:52 oh, and using the Java stdlib 20:38:54 instead of the C++ one 20:38:59 uhu 20:39:04 Which isn't hard to do with gcj. 20:39:11 why not just compile the java to native code directly 20:39:14 with gcj yeah 20:39:30 AnMaster: because that (a) introduces a dependency on the system having a classpath (java stdlib implementation) 20:39:32 (gcj treats Java as a language with C++-like calling conventions, after all...) 20:39:35 ah 20:39:38 and (b) you can't call it easily from C++, prolly 20:39:43 and (c) probably a bit slower, maybe. 20:40:00 ehird: Gcj-compiled Java is easy to call from C++. 20:40:03 I like GCJ for the way it annoys Java purists 20:40:04 OK, then 20:40:10 but (a) is still the important thing 20:40:15 but (d) it will probably crash less. Assuming gcj is managed and does bounds checks and so on. 20:40:23 AnMaster: C++ can be managed. 20:40:38 And since java's semantics don't map to C++, there'll be a library layer. 20:40:40 Which is almost certainly managed. 20:40:45 GCJ-compiled Java can just about be called directly from C++. 20:40:48 AnMaster: remember that any code that's good C is bad style in C++ 20:40:57 ehird, hah 20:41:01 (you have to include a GCJ library for the Java datatypes) 20:41:30 pikhq: they're not going to introduce a compile-time dependency on gcj and they're not going to introduce a run-time dependency over gcj's runtime library 20:41:35 can't you use gcj with something like -freestanding 20:41:37 this is probably the sanest way to do it as far as mozille goes 20:41:39 *mozilla 20:41:42 AnMaster: the code uses java libs 20:41:47 hm ok 20:41:47 it is not mozilla-specific 20:41:57 ehird: I strongly suspect they already have a compile-time dependency on gcj. 20:42:08 pikhq: o rly? the translator doesn't use gcj 20:42:09 ehird, does this C++ code use a GC? 20:42:11 and the pre-translated source is in-tree 20:42:18 AnMaster: mozilla uses refcounting. 20:42:22 XPCOM. 20:42:26 (which is btw horrific) 20:42:46 ehird, I thought mozilla was some mix of various in different parts? 20:42:48 well, yes 20:42:49 somewhat like memory management in GCC 20:42:51 but it will be refcounted 20:43:07 * ehird replaces Minefield's unbelievably ugly icon with Firefox's 20:43:07 sounds like a bad idea 20:43:11 how to handle cycles? 20:43:21 IT'S THE GLOBE WITH A CHEESY BOMB LOL 20:43:33 AnMaster: i'm going to assume a fuckin' html 5 parser won't generate cyclic structures 20:43:42 ehird: It has an optional build-time dependency on a Java compiler. 20:44:06 pikhq: keyword optional. but why? 20:44:14 oh god, firefox's new logo is ugly 20:44:21 the bits on the tail jus tlook all wrong 20:44:21 I haven't a clue. 20:44:25 and the bit at the bottom looks like bad rescaling 20:45:06 http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/shiretoko/firefoxIcon/firefox-64-noshadow.png 20:45:07 just awful 20:46:25 is refcounting ever a good idea for memory management? I guess there could be some specific cases... 20:47:37 A HTML parser can easily generate cyclic structures, if you want to have something like a DOM tree where you can go from an arbitrary node to its parent, and back. 20:48:19 True. 20:48:24 AnMaster: If you don't have cyclic structures, it's not merely good, it's great. 20:50:15 hm true 20:52:17 I'm not sure how incredibly great it is; there's a reasonable amount of work done for the reference-counting. Of course it's a tiny thing, but with some other GC styles you don't have to collect things very often either. But this is all just gut-feeling talk, I'm sure there's actual well-researched material written about this. 20:53:06 (I note that the "process" of Slashdot incremental improvement has now reached a point where clicking anywhere in the text-entry box causes the box to LOSE focus. If you don't want us using Safari, there are more efficient ways to get us to move.) 20:53:14 wow, Slashdot's UI gets worse by the day 20:53:18 Doing something now is always worse than doing something later, performance-wise . 20:53:22 s/ \././ 20:53:37 iirc python uses refcounting, that doesn't make sense though, unless it somehow can guarantee that the no cycles happen... 20:54:03 AnMaster: it has a gc for cycles. 20:54:29 Perl uses refcounting too, and it just relies on the user to manually break cycles if they care enough. Though there's also a mark-and-sweep GC step done when the interpreter is being destroyed or something. 20:54:33 ehird, um. how does that work?? 20:54:35 The reference counting is just an optimisation to make the garbage collector's work easier. 20:54:52 AnMaster: by confusing you. 20:55:17 fizzie, interpreter being destroyed == /usr/bin/perl exiting? If so it seems a bit pointless. 20:55:27 AnMaster: perl is more than perl(1). 20:55:32 AnMaster: It's for programs that embed a Perl interpreter for scripting purposes and such. 20:55:33 it's a Perl interpreter library. 20:55:34 AnMaster: thread ending also causes that 20:55:40 in addition to what ehird's talking about 20:55:49 and it matters due to DESTROY hooks even with one thread and no embedding 20:55:50 oh jesus, firefox right-click menus still don't have curved edges like everything else because FIREFOX ON MAC DEVELOPERS HAVE NO BRAIN 20:56:07 ehird: ... Wow. 20:56:30 Why can't they just do what Qt does and use native widgets? 20:56:37 pikhq: also the title/toolbar gradient still goes dark, light, dark 20:56:40 also, qt fails on os x too 20:56:49 there's something about the platform that causes everyone to lose their attention to detail 20:56:53 i think it's the obnoxious users. 20:57:02 pikhq: (as opposed to light, dark as normal os x) 20:57:08 That's because its OS X support is technically still a WIP. 20:57:15 seriously, the time it took them to fake it with XUL? could have written a native cocoa interface. 20:57:43 firefox's html5 parser seems to work great 20:57:56 Better than what they used to do; Qt used to just draw native-looking widgets. 20:58:02 Which is eeeew. 20:58:06 pikhq: well that's the last time i used qt 20:58:08 might be better now 20:58:16 Tried Qt 4? 20:58:27 no, i'd like to 20:58:56 Qt 4 renders with native widgets whenever possible. 20:59:00 good 20:59:22 hey, now I'm using firefox I can... notice that its font-rendering still looks totally nonnative and ugly on a lot of stuff. 20:59:23 sigh. 20:59:24 but, 20:59:26 mathml! 20:59:31 html5 video! 20:59:36 now i have to decide if it was worth that. 20:59:48 ehird: but... Theora vs. h264 21:00:05 Firefox on Mac OS X is in rather a weird place in that particular battle 21:00:14 ais523: YOU SHOULD USE THEORA BECAUSE IF YOU USE THEORA THERE'S ABOUT A 30% CHANCE PEOPLE WON'T SUE YOU (DOWN FROM 0.01%) 21:00:19 IF IT LOOKS BAD DRINK A FEW BEERS! 21:00:25 Libre! 21:00:35 *30% LESS CHANCE 21:00:52 "You need the latest beta version of Firefox to view this demo!" —dailymotion.com's HTML 5 video test page 21:01:02 i guess they removed it from the latest nightlies huh! 21:01:08 oh, you mean they're sniffing versions? 21:01:09 ehird: it's dailymotion is checking for a specific useragent string 21:01:09 amazing! 21:01:12 yes 21:01:14 I was being sarcastic 21:01:17 rather than using fallback like you're supposed to 21:01:36 * ehird tries a MathML test page; surely this will work? 21:01:40 and acid3 tested fallback for IIRC, so fallback for