< 1248480077 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird and hows effect you're work < 1248480095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm a piece of work, but the Hows effect? < 1248480097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a useful model! < 1248480103 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for my english it not very well < 1248480108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1248480126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowicjusz: ever heard of Brainfuck? < 1248480220 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird what hi hi < 1248480231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okiedokie. < 1248480252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck <-- Concludes it < 1248480275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowicjusz: Czy rozumiesz to? < 1248480297 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tak < 1248480333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowicjusz: Hey, I guess Google Translate jest przydatny dla czegoś. Jakkolwiek, ten kanał jest dziwny komputer języków programowania. < 1248480337 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too lazy to google translate < 1248480348 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanal, is that channel? ;o < 1248480371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto pl Does this thing work? < 1248480372 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Czy to dziaa? < 1248480383 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice ³ there < 1248480388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: You have the Unicode support of a horse. < 1248480399 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefrom pl kanal < 1248480399 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes translate is goog < 1248480399 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1248480401 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1248480402 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1248480437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto pl A man, a plan, a canal: Panama! < 1248480437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brawo. Teraz wystarczy, aby wszyscy rozmawiać za pomocą tłumacza. < 1248480438 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Czowiek, plan, kanau: Panama! < 1248480440 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate kanal < 1248480441 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel < 1248480449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate Brawo. Teraz wystarczy, aby wszyscy rozmawiać za pomocą tłumacza. < 1248480451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Brawo. Teraz wystarczy, aby wszyscy rozmawiać za pomocą tłumacza. < 1248480452 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1248480452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bravo. Now, enough so that all rozmawia ... using this interpreter. < 1248480456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248480460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bravo. Now, enough for everyone to talk with an interpreter. " < 1248480478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Będzie ładniejszy z podobnych, mniej Unicode tardness. < 1248480480 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew why the Unicode is borkleborked, but the server is honestly not sending me valid UTF-8. < 1248480500 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have thought that the word for "channel" would be the same in polish and swedish < 1248480509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Google isn't necessarily in UTF-8. < 1248480519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Szwedzki jest rzeczywiście polski ... W ukrycia! < 1248480525 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Super. But I have no idea what it IS in, nor how to convince to BE in UTF-8. < 1248480535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: http://chardet.feedparser.org/ < 1248480541 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Szwedzki jest rzeczywiście polski ... W ukrycia! < 1248480542 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is actually> of Polish ... In disguise! < 1248480543 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248480562 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird sorry for the delay < 1248480564 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a power outage < 1248480566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CP [C [T did] C] [TP [DP you_i] [T' [vP [v' [v [V mean] v] [VP [CP C [TP [DP ] [T to] [vP [v' [v [V say] v] [VP [CP [C that] [TP [DP [D the] [NP [N thing] [CP [C that] [TP [DP you] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.pst] [VP [DP ]]]]]]]]] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [DP D [NP INDEF [CP [C what] [TP [DP you] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.pst] [VP [CP C < 1248480571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[TP [DP that] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [DP ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] < 1248480580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yow < 1248480583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some ugly lisp < 1248480584 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmmm ... so now how do I fix it :P < 1248480593 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That concludes esolangs, by the way ^ < 1248480596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well, what character encoding did it tell you? < 1248480601 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, how esolangs could look < 1248480615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translators daje mi poczucie znajomości języka. < 1248480621 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ironcreek.net/phpsyntaxtree/ < 1248480628 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that to draw the tree, ehird. < 1248480652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm surprised it is even syntactically meaningful < 1248480658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends with an... unconsumed argument. < 1248480668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's not Lisp. That's an English parse tree. < 1248480675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, there should be a [T' between [DP ] and [T to] < 1248480679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look mighty sexp-esque, though. < 1248480687 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an extra ] at the end < 1248480693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whooshy whoosh whooshy < 1248480697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: unconsumed argument? < 1248480705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Like, "The." < 1248480707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need something after. < 1248480710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hit it because it" < 1248480717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1248480724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :A odrobina inteligencji będzie założyć! Jeśli jesteś w samochodzie stanowiska kolei A. Proszę inaczej kolei do B. Jeśli C, AB 2 1. Dziękujemy za Twój stronie. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1248480726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dunno. < 1248480782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relative clauses are actually probably wrong. they should be attached to the DP nodes < 1248480784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me fix that < 1248480788 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLEH < 1248480791 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its late for me see you soon ehird < 1248480792 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It just told me UTF-8 >_< < 1248480815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Did you try it on a page with actual unicode chars? < 1248480818 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1248480819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, translating to, say, Polish. < 1248480824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it'll just see ASCII and say UTF-8. < 1248480833 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used this: < 1248480835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Only 1/2 of Americans are aware that Neil Armstrong was the first man to walk on the moon. < 1248480837 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ko Hello, world! < 1248480838 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ȳϼ, ! < 1248480845 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1248480847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Don't copy from your IRC client, duh! < 1248480849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FUCKING HATE THIS COUNTRY AND WOULD LIKE TO STAB PEOPLE WITHIN IT < 1248480853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll encode to UTF-8 for its display. < 1248480859 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis true. < 1248480885 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248480899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i take it you don't know about martin luther king, then < 1248480906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*duck* < 1248480911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He walked on the moon indeed...? < 1248480912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homophobe repellant: {1, 1, 1, 1, 1} < 1248480922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Har har har. < 1248480922 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{'confidence': 0.98999999999999999, 'encoding': 'EUC-KR'} < 1248480929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do, in fact, know about Martin Luther King Jr. I also know about Martin Luther. < 1248480930 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, EUC-KR for Korean, no great surprise. < 1248480943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh lawdy, does it have varying encodings? < 1248480946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you might have them confused. < 1248480953 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Apparently. < 1248480957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... < 1248480964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try French or something. < 1248480967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What makes you think that? < 1248480967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: huh? < 1248480982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: {1,1,1,1,1} is homogeneous < 1248480984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [CP [C [T did] C] [TP [DP you_i] [T' [vP [v' [v [V mean] v] [VP [CP C [TP [DP ] [T' [T to] [vP [v' [v [V say] v] [VP [CP [C that] [TP [DP [DP [D the] [NP [N thing]]] [CP [C that] [TP [DP you] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.pst] [VP [DP ]]]]]]]] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [DP [DP INDEF] [CP [C what] [TP [DP you] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.ps < 1248480986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t] [VP [CP C [TP [DP that] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [] []]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] < 1248480988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: your violent desires < 1248480989 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there. that is more correct < 1248480992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: alwl < 1248480993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1248481007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do not tolerate fools well. < 1248481022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not Gandhi. < 1248481022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i find that a very weak connection < 1248481034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor am I Martin Luther King, Jr. < 1248481035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thus "har har har". < 1248481046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a man who dislikes stupidity, and goes over-the-top on IRC. < 1248481047 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: {'confidence': 0.75502604851710919, 'encoding': 'ISO-8859-2'} < 1248481057 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I can get the encoding OKishly, but I need to fix it :( < 1248481058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Unsurprising. < 1248481064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: shell out to python < 1248481075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: in fact < 1248481077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it for any encoding < 1248481079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: like this: < 1248481083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, also, it's an array, so the types are homogenous < 1248481095 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i can also turn that into a full GB x-bar tree < 1248481110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: < 1248481111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import chardet; x = sys.stdin.read(); sys.stdout.write(x.decode(chardet.detect(x)['encoding']).encode('UTF-8')) < 1248481113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1248481122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more or less what I was looking for. < 1248481136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1248481155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Wait. < 1248481157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add "import sys; " to the start. < 1248481198 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fixering ... < 1248481206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Homologically equivalent" < 1248481222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: In fact, you should just filter all egobot things through it :P < 1248481229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death to non-UTF8! < 1248481234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UTF-8 < 1248481351 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, forgot to install chardet on the host :P < 1248481361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was wondering why it wasn't working. < 1248481420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why in the world is Google serving non-UTF-8? < 1248481423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate so much. < 1248481442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i guess cause google translate is mainly croudsourced? < 1248481445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bandwidth maybe < 1248481448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In rural areas, couples are allowed a second child if their first is a girl. " < 1248481459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to worsen the balance, China < 1248481489 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ko Hello, world! < 1248481491 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :안녕하세요, 세계! < 1248481504 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't translate back, and I'm not sure why :( < 1248481510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China is now dealing with, well, a demographics timebomb. < 1248481516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 안녕하세요, 세계! < 1248481517 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ì • ë ... • í • ~ ì "¸ ìš", ì "¸ ê ³"! < 1248481523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248481601 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weirder still, the used URL, http://translate.google.com/translate_t?text=%ec%95%88%eb%85%95%ed%95%98%ec%84%b8%ec%9a%94%2c%20%ec%84%b8%ea%b3%84%21&sl=auto&tl=en , works fine? < 1248481628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: because translate and translateto are separate < 1248481628 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1248481631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you reverted in a huff < 1248481635 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/translate < 1248481636 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ translateto "en $1" < 1248481639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1248481640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in full GB-style X-Bar form: < 1248481641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CP [C' [C [T did] C] [TP [DP [D' [D you]]] [T' [vP [v' [v [V mean] v] [VP [V' [CP [C' C [TP [T' [T to] [vP [v' [v [V say] v] [VP [V' [CP [C' [C that] [TP [DP [DP [D' [D the] [NP [N' [N thing]]]]] [CP [C' [C that] [TP [DP [D' [D you]]] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.pst] [VP [V' [] []]]]]]]]]] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [V' [DP [DP [D' [D INDEF]]] [CP [C' [C < 1248481644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what] [TP [DP [D' [D you]]] [T' [T pst] [vP [v' [v [V say] v.pst] [VP [V' [CP [C' C [TP [DP [D' [D that]]] [T' [T [V be] [T pst]] [VP [V' [] []]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] < 1248481657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it has to be noted i'm not really fussed < 1248481664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1248481678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont speak confused little boy :P < 1248481695 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonsense! < 1248481702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s called british < 1248481912 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248481913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lenovo recommends you burn a restore DVD" < 1248481914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1248481920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they just include one? < 1248481924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost? < 1248481928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just a repair partition on the disk < 1248481941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because 2¢ is a lot of money. < 1248481956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is when you're a chinese computer company :) < 1248481966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have to figure out how to do it and the like < 1248481993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now they have to figure out how to create a dvd burning app < 1248481993 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Taiwanese, IIRC) < 1248482016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ha, i accidentally furthered the oppression of a nation! < 1248482019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool am i < 1248482025 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck China. < 1248482030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Taiwan lays claim to all of China, not just the Taiwan administrative region. < 1248482038 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, they don't any more. < 1248482042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Dude, you might smash it. < 1248482043 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not for a long time. < 1248482044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just gave you my OpenID, why do you want me to make a password for you < 1248482045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1248482047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck plastic cups or something < 1248482047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they do. < 1248482115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248482122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems my drive is a DVD-RAM one < 1248482124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1248482133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DVD-...RAM? < 1248482136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1248482139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lenovo told me not to use DVD RAM for the backup cds though < 1248482140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, .... < 1248482143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google < 1248482151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVD-RAM is not RAM < 1248482153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a format < 1248482155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Map of the Republic of China (AKA Taiwan, AKA Chinese Taipei, AKA ...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.png < 1248482159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DVD-RAM (DVD–Random Access Memory)" < 1248482162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible < 1248482162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc apple's superdrives can handle it too < 1248482166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have tons and tons of lasers < 1248482171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all focused at different points < 1248482179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IT IS NOT RAM AS IN RANDOM ACCESS? KAY? < 1248482181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taiwan makes fucking huge claims. < 1248482184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1248482185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1248482186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ""DVD-RAM (DVD–Random Access Memory)"" < 1248482188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia < 1248482190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So STFU < 1248482191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1248482192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1248482194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is < 1248482200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…which is impossible. < 1248482206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, read the article < 1248482216 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This would appear to be the legal claims they've made ever since they were ousted. < 1248482216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1248482219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not random access. < 1248482229 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nowadays they're basically just trying to get people to accept that Taiwan is not part of China. < 1248482235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's their current claims. < 1248482305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has never renounced any claims over mainland China or over Mongolia... < 1248482316 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the administration of pro-independence President Chen Shui-bian (2000–2008) did not actively claim sovereignty over all of China, the national boundaries of the ROC have not been redrawn and its outstanding territorial claims from the late 1940s have not been revised. < 1248482321 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, screwy new president apparently. < 1248482329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1248482462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China v. Taiwan is screwy. < 1248482475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because somehow, Taiwan declaring independence would result in a war. < 1248482487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But Taiwan claiming all of China would not... < 1248482500 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1248482508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, you found out now about DVD-RAM I guess? < 1248482518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1248482708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1248482722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants three dvds then fills each with about 1 GB < 1248482723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1248482728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use one dvd then < 1248482734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you've had the laptop for many, many hours and haven't actually got around to USING it. < 1248482748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true :P < 1248482761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I blame windows < 1248482786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what there's a market for? < 1248482806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer makers that ship sturdy, standard systems without cutting corners for a non-cost-cutting price. < 1248482814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without any custom software or manuals or anything. < 1248482831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavens only know why there isn't such a company. < 1248482840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that sentence was awkward. < 1248482850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and with any cds needed already generated < 1248482859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No CDs needed! < 1248482861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stock everything. < 1248482864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They give you the OS CD. < 1248482865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, someone that ships what you could get from Newegg, only already put together. < 1248482865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I ran memtest on it < 1248482870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took an hour or so < 1248482876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and they should memtest before shipping. :-P < 1248482879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Exactly! < 1248482879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just wanted to be sure early on the memory had no issues < 1248482900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a bit of craftsmanship to picking the components, and perhaps their own, decent case. < 1248482922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Craftsmanship including, e.g. "replace the heatsink/fans with something bigger, better and quieter" and the like) < 1248482923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd buy it. < 1248482931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly that it doesn't exist. < 1248482943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for laptops. < 1248482953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't newegg yourself a DIY laptop. < 1248482954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed < 1248482977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you DIY laptops? < 1248482983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really < 1248482993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit less spacious really < 1248482994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Chassis, screen and also extreme thinness is required. < 1248482994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1248482996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom motherboards. < 1248482998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A bit? < 1248483001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massively. < 1248483004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, portable power. < 1248483005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well ok, a lot < 1248483007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the screen. < 1248483021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the power adapter is mostly external < 1248483024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laptops are truly hard things to make, and a marvel of engineering; how come you can't get one that's made right? < 1248483026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: battery etc < 1248483026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well battery hm < 1248483032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pre-made cases? < 1248483039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build that for normal computers < 1248483041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cases I mean < 1248483050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could DYI that too in plywood < 1248483051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can buy them, but they kind of suck and also are hard to get a hold of. < 1248483052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guesds < 1248483054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess* < 1248483056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, DIYing a desktop? < 1248483060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a case. Attach the mobo. < 1248483064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in the CPU, apply heatsink and fan. < 1248483067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in the RAM, harddrives. < 1248483070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. I meant getting a laptop case and such < 1248483071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attach powersupply. < 1248483071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1248483073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're done. < 1248483078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A laptop is much more involved. < 1248483084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not make the mobos standard sizes like they are for desktops < 1248483097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: too big! < 1248483108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not the *same* standard sizes of course < 1248483110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different ones < 1248483115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a laptop standard < 1248483116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too square < 1248483118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't practical < 1248483120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also wifi antenna < 1248483122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know < 1248483124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that in laptops < 1248483128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the antenna is wound around the whole case? < 1248483129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1248483129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it in the monitor < 1248483132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the best signal < 1248483133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope < 1248483142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was on my old ibook! < 1248483143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a sprawling wifi snake in your laptop, filling all the gaps < 1248483156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that < 1248483159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's* fun < 1248483163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis < 1248483170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, citation needed though < 1248483182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit comment < 1248483187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most accurate of all sources < 1248483195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, don't you have a screwdriver? check ;-) < 1248483207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1248483214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of screwdrivers < 1248483215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open 'er up! < 1248483216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Torx < 1248483229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would void warranty < 1248483230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1248483256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used a computer warranty? also, you know that it'd be basically impossible to check whether you've opened it? < 1248483305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is "extracting files" still... for the recovery cd thingy < 1248483316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I used computer warranty once < 1248483320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mobo died < 1248483326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it replaced < 1248483347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not before they checked the self-detonating bulb of didtheyopenthislaptopupness! < 1248483351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun < 1248483355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it isn't since there is a "warranty void if removed" label over one of the screwholes < 1248483361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248483363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply it back :D < 1248483377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, won't get it loose easily. I know how they work < 1248483385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they break rather than come away easily < 1248483386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn :) < 1248483390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ilovetypography.com/img/2009/02/kern-iphone.jpg ← <3 < 1248483403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best game ever < 1248483417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but not before they checked the self-detonating bulb of didtheyopenthislaptopupness! <-- actually that time it was on a desktop < 1248483425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1248483427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1248483470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what's with the "!" < 1248483476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1248483478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feigned surprise < 1248483491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why be surprised by that... < 1248483499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, feigned < 1248483510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1248483516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point < 1248483523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom < 1248483541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw... for harddrives < 1248483547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 5400 and 7200 < 1248483549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1248483557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not 8192 or 7000 < 1248483559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1248483576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5400 and 7200 seems like very odd choices for RPM < 1248483666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1248483681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motor speeds i guess < 1248483688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1248483693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. this motor speed runs this diameter platter at N rpm < 1248483699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe those speeds are cheaper and masproduced? < 1248483699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that motor speed is something saner < 1248483703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1248483710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and < 1248483724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it now < 1248483728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1248483735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lenovo comes with three partitions < 1248483743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is C: the other ones are weird ones < 1248483750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: and S: < 1248483757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like lenovo made thinkpads kind of crappy. < 1248483766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called Q: Lenovo and S: SERVICE003 < 1248483779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possible < 1248483798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, these are recovery partitions thingies < 1248483808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what exactly is the point of two separate ones < 1248483811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bloody hate recovery crap < 1248483815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double clicking on each: < 1248483818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gimme the OS disk and tell users to back up < 1248483825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(persuasively, of course.) < 1248483827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: This is for recovery, click here to create a recovery disk < 1248483845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S: This is required to boot windows. Please don't change anything < 1248483854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the messages are longer, abridged versions) < 1248483858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and they are in Swedish) < 1248484027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found what S: does < 1248484048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems S: is for the "preboot area" which is some sort of hardware test thingy you can access during boot < 1248484070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill it! kill it with fire! < 1248484075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1248484081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cruft! < 1248484081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes just a few hundred MB < 1248484090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a lot for that indeed < 1248484105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it will break the bootloader. They don't use the standard windows one < 1248484111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yes I will kill it < 1248484119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I got the restore dvds burned < 1248484138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were wiping windows anyhoo < 1248484153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... They don't use the standard Windows bootloader? < 1248484157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuke that shit. < 1248484165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am < 1248484171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they chainload < 1248484184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1248484187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Kill it! Kill it with fire! < 1248484190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mounted the recover dvd 1 thingy < 1248484201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls < 1248484201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python24 recovery swwork utils < 1248484205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is in < 1248484208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux /mnt/cdrom/preboot $ ls < 1248484216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn copy paste error destroying the effect < 1248484257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://pastebin.ca/1506371 < 1248484306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winpe! < 1248484376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure what winpe is < 1248484381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo for wipe? < 1248484392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows poop edition. < 1248484402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Preinstallation_Environment < 1248484665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can it run normal windows software? < 1248484696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A subset, I guess. < 1248484700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the screenshot. < 1248484853 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/imgs/win3plusplus.png ^^ < 1248484894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Schedule+, ey? Or should I say... CRON? < 1248484912 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ...? < 1248484927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From that screenshot. < 1248484937 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, but you think that just because it's in that screenshot means I use it? :P < 1248484938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schedule+ runs a program at a given time, IIRC. < 1248484941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, that's one feature. < 1248484946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I was just juxtaposing with the bash :P < 1248484950 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1248484960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Can you run Windows 95 explorer.exe on that? < 1248484966 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1248484967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a taskbar with the lean, mean 3.11 kernel! < 1248484973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, probably not. < 1248484973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1248484974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doit < 1248484979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1248484987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1248484989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about NT 3.51 is that it has nearly everything about Win32 EXCEPT that it has no registry. < 1248484999 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So things written exclusively for Windows don't work, but things ported to Windows do. < 1248485002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm sure you could write a registryd.exe :- < 1248485003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1248485004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds great < 1248485019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with a registry, AnMaster. it just so happens that windows has two < 1248485022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one's called C:\ < 1248485026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other has no name < 1248485030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah < 1248485039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the noname one sucks < 1248485047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was the only one that'd be fine < 1248485050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's having two that sucks < 1248485066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is stored on the first < 1248485068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that < 1248485076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No duh. < 1248485080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\windows\system32\config\ iirc < 1248485086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere in there < 1248485097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where else would it go < 1248485112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on a separate partition with it's own registry file system? < 1248485121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those obviously don't exist < 1248485122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1248485124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't see why it's surprising < 1248485134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the file system would be just the registry file < 1248485190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's not < 1248485195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as anyone who's ever looked at partitioning knows < 1248485198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's obviously on the partition < 1248485205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248485217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make the CMOS very big and store it there? < 1248485231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just… no. < 1248485243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, wiping a Windows partition and reinstalling it wipes the registry too :P < 1248485270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248485291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just suggesting future "improvements" to get rid of it being on the partition :( < 1248485322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1248485613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use non-volatile RAM and store it there? < 1248485626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-volatile RAM = SSD < 1248485632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA a hard drive < 1248485644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well.. non-volatile ram can be magnetic ram too < 1248485652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would have the in memory format < 1248485656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the on-disk format < 1248485658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAM SSD? < 1248485678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you still access it like a filesystem right < 1248485684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by reading locations in RAM < 1248485688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248485690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O, ehird and I reply to the same person on Reddit, barely even noticed < 1248485691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1248485693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference < 1248485700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use dd on the block device < 1248485701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: link < 1248485704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I meant something you would use the instruction "mov" to write to for example < 1248485708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/94bqc/oh_mr_dawkinsthats_cold/c0bdodr < 1248485728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your reply sucks, mine doesn't :-P < 1248485743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Unfortunately, I find that the format of Q&A sessions following a lecture leave very little room for real discussion. It's also my personal belief that Dawkins is a very "hard-line" atheist and doesn't want to give this man's question any validity by justifying it with a response any more in-depth than, "Sorry, I know it matters to you, but it's still crap."]] < 1248485751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— as opposed to "Aw, you're delusional. That's okay! Fluffy bunnies." < 1248485755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know that's not yours) < 1248485759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just saw it now) < 1248485765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, buhbyye < 1248485767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*buhbye < 1248485768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1248486024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks if the recovery cd works... yep < 1248486029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right time to install linux over it all < 1248486073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it took you how many hours? < 1248486090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 6? < 1248486094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, included memtest too < 1248486103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which I ran while I was eating < 1248486116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, burning recovery dvds? an hour maybe? < 1248486125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, bios update first too < 1248486140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, about as much time as I spend on a Gentoo install. < 1248486148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and playing around with vista to check how shitty it was < 1248486376 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248486609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for partitioning: http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page < 1248486612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rocks < 1248486616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY RECOMMENDED < 1248486623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has gparted and so on < 1248486628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and memtest < 1248486631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything else you need < 1248487280 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248487283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh xfce seems nice ehird < 1248487362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pikhq ^ < 1248487401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey boring < 1248488424 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switched to XFCE recently. < 1248488491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do realize i will need you to either tell me you've listened to it, or tell my you won't. i do not need comments on the content, but i need my messages to go through. < 1248488514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm content with you not actually listening to it, as long as you consistently lie you have. < 1248488568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse my obsessivity. < 1248488654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, right... will listen to it in a sec < 1248488704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no rush. but yeah do it right away. < 1248488740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, fine. But rather bad microphone? < 1248488746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall now attempt to make a native winelf compiler on winelf. < 1248488749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just a blur at the end right? < 1248488751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the computer's mic. < 1248488756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no shouldn't be < 1248488762 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make macelf ... < 1248488762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, sure is < 1248488765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hear most of the notes in the end too < 1248488774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, winelf? < 1248488789 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an environment for making ELF executables for Windows. < 1248488799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, can they execute? < 1248488803 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1248488814 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the whole environment serves no purpose whatsoever. < 1248488821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I'm just so surprised < 1248488832 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have an ELF loader for Windows. < 1248488842 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a patch to GCC that allows it to create valid ELF binaries. < 1248488842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, how does it work? < 1248488844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1248488845 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Windows) < 1248488851 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And libraries) < 1248488855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it hook into the windows system < 1248488872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, can it produce *.so too? or just *.a libraries? < 1248488877 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.so too < 1248488888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1248488894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, you have libdl? < 1248488896 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hook in to Windows in any meaningful way. You have to run the binaries like elfload.exe someELF < 1248488900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to dynamically load them? < 1248488904 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1248488905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, meh < 1248488922 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can dynaload both .so's and .dll's. < 1248488934 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although .dll's still have all the limitations .dll's have of course :P < 1248488939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, what about TLS? < 1248488945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, thread local storage < 1248488951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you support it for *.so < 1248488956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you coded all this < 1248488966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: That's pretty awesome. < 1248488974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and a link < 1248488976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no TLS support, no. < 1248488980 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how to do that on Windows. < 1248488982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, definitely not blur, at least when played with my computer's speaker; but anyway, not important < 1248488995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the *sound* isn't < 1248488998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the video is < 1248489000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248489002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, any nice playing < 1248489004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, of course < 1248489007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and* < 1248489011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i play more notes a second than it takes pics a second < 1248489019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frames whatever < 1248489025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, need a better camera :P < 1248489027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND mic < 1248489037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and better songs ;=) < 1248489040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want crystal clear pro recording sound next time < 1248489044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You could totally use that as the basis for UNIX-on-Windows. < 1248489045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what song was it btw? < 1248489047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue < 1248489060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something i composed like 5 years ago < 1248489070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually longer, but i only play that part fast < 1248489080 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a sec, I'm sticking it on codu.org ... had it on berlios.de < 1248489104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will totally check that out once I get this XP VM installed. < 1248489147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I assume that you have library versioning. < 1248489160 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not really :P < 1248489165 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Patches accepted ;) < 1248489169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1248489174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows needs it so badly. So very badly. < 1248489211 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/winelf/ < 1248489246 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still mid-push, so wait a tick :P ) < 1248489520 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You want the elfload directory, btw. < 1248489528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elfload is portable, btw) < 1248489543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(works on Linux, but can't load Linux ELFs ... trust me, it does work though :P ) < 1248489688 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessss < 1248489690 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polish in the topic < 1248489696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Heh. < 1248489734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah polish it in! < 1248489736 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can load statically-compiled Linux ELFs, it only can't load normal ones because they depend on libc, and libc depends on ld.so >_> < 1248490041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should totally make a Cygwin-alike using this. ;p < 1248490120 0 :GuestShadowSkunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1248490121 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm open to patches ;) < 1248490160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. libhost_ means... Yes, you could build a Cygwin userspace with it, depending only on Cygwin. < 1248490168 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1248490172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with some effort) < 1248490184 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... nearly all you need is to elfimplib cygwin1.dll < 1248490187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like making exec use elfload) < 1248490198 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a problem >_> < 1248490217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Cygwin is GPL'd. ;) < 1248490220 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem is that I have /no/ idea which functions in the various libraries I've collectively called libc are capable of calling functions. < 1248490223 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1248490224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's definitely doable. < 1248490225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running progarms < 1248490228 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1248490252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure in Cygwin, it all goes through cygwin1.dll. < 1248490256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But am not sure. < 1248490280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1248490286 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to solving the same problem for what I have right now. < 1248490286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a weird statement. < 1248490288 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is MingW-ish. < 1248490305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a royal bitch. < 1248490324 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :P < 1248490344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main reason I want to solve it is so that when I compile GCC, it'll actually work ;) < 1248490425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly good thing to want to solve. < 1248490483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. You could probably get ReactOS to actually use WinELF for its POSIX subsystem... < 1248490512 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried it on ReactOS :P < 1248490517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate everything to japanese < 1248490518 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I've never tried it on Vista >_> < 1248490518 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything to japanese < 1248490519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it failed utterly there. < 1248490529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried it on WINE? < 1248490551 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works on wine, works on Windows XP. < 1248490585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it should work on ReactOS. < 1248490597 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody got Vista somewhere? < 1248490599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the ReactOS userspace is WINE code. < 1248490607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got vista < 1248490612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's useful to you < 1248490613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you should be able to obtain Server 2008 for free. < 1248490622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you're a student. < 1248490626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggested computer name for the thinkpad? < 1248490627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1248490637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"phoenix" and "tux" are already in use < 1248490641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise everything is free < 1248490649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reserve the right to refuse < 1248490661 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could get Vista or 2008 for free, but that would wound me deeply. < 1248490685 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Why is that not useful to me? < 1248490700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: because i'm busy spamming estoeric atm. < 1248490761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Fair enough. < 1248491122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../binutils/dwarf.c:207: error: unknown conversion type character ‘I’ in format < 1248491127 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist at GCC < 1248491136 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it just didn't check, it wouldn't mark that as an error, and it would work :P < 1248491154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC hearts its checking. < 1248491157 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead I have to dig into the bowels of GCC, and convince it that yes, I DO want the MSVC printf conversion type characters on ELF. < 1248491258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for how to convince GCC to accept other conversion types < 1248491522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wno-format < 1248491634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disables all format checking in theory. < 1248491901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encrypted /home works < 1248491905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it asks for password as boot < 1248491906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1248492040 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto japanese everything < 1248492042 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1248492050 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja panese everything < 1248492052 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :‚ˇ‚ׂÄpanese < 1248492057 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1248492068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken? < 1248492071 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja foo baz quux < 1248492073 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fooはバズquux < 1248492080 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently baz is a word. < 1248492118 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1248492120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't be? < 1248492134 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja This is a test. < 1248492135 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :これはテストされています。 < 1248492142 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it translates as wa bazu. < 1248492148 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just couldn't figure out the format above because it was half English and half Japanese I suspect. < 1248492154 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it transliterated. < 1248492191 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back-translating, はバズ means "Baz:" < 1248492198 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: re -Wno-format: I'd rather make it do it right. < 1248492211 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe it means ": baz". < 1248492269 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja I do not speak Japanese. < 1248492270 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私は日本語を話すことはありません。 < 1248492280 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to translate "Beef: it's what's for dinner" and see if it begins with "牛肉は". < 1248492286 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja Beef: it's what's for dinner. < 1248492288 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :牛肉:ディナーのためのものだ。 < 1248492290 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not stop you. < 1248492304 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a colon. < 1248492306 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody's off by one character. < 1248492306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Making GCC handle other conversion types requires glibc. < 1248492308 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto ja Beef is what's for dinner. < 1248492310 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :夕食の牛肉だ。 < 1248492319 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was half as short. < 1248492319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1248492332 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GCC handles other conversion types already on MingW >_< < 1248492334 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I sense katakana. < 1248492345 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION transliterates 牛肉:ディナーのためのものだ。 < 1248492479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with register_printf_function. < 1248492485 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beef : DINAA notamenomonoda . < 1248492547 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that last bit is more than one word. < 1248492696 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So am I correct in my assumption that in spite of all the positive comments a moment ago, not a single person has checked out winelf, and heaven forbit the thought that they've actually compiled it? :P < 1248492768 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, pikhq identified libhost_ < 1248492770 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cancel that. < 1248493051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not compiled it for lack of functioning Win32 or the desire to set it up, but I have been poking around in the source. < 1248493082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty spiffy. < 1248493177 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Win32 right now, but I can still compile it :P < 1248493189 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install mingw32 < 1248493198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo. < 1248493223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the crossdev script makes that nice... < 1248493239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1248493248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs crossdev < 1248493302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, should just be crossdev --target=i686-pc-win32-mingw or some such. < 1248493313 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i686-pc-mingw32 < 1248493350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1248493364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it magically compiles a crosscompiler. < 1248493383 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll betcha it can't do i686-win32elf ;) < 1248493513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could without too much work. < 1248493531 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win32elf's "libc" is wonko < 1248493582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The really nice thing is that the crosscompilers from crossdev are automatically stuck in the package manager... < 1248493591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice Gentooism. < 1248494123 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howzat goin' < 1248494193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently fetching gcc. < 1248494678 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any Europhiles about? Which side of a Euro coin is "heads"? < 1248494720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heads is usually the one with the head, the other has the number, euros just have the number < 1248494721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1248494740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know, never threw a coin in english < 1248494746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well flipped < 1248494989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears. < 1248494994 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"heads" is the side with the head, yes :P < 1248495002 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But euros have a number and some symbol. < 1248495011 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol is reminiscent of what I'd expect on the "tails" side of a US coin. < 1248495034 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Wikipedia confirms that the numbered side is "tails" < 1248495044 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, more precisely, the reverse, as opposed to the obverse) < 1248495137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that wp confirms it, i can tell you i was actually 100% sure about it. < 1248496712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1248496712 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248496930 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248500600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248501361 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248504133 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backup finally seems unwonko, at a mere 8MB rather than the 65MB/day it was at first. < 1248504211 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1248504236 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki backup. < 1248504244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing a nightly differential backup. < 1248504258 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first night to the second night something got screwy, so the diff was 65MB (the total size). < 1248504268 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second to the third night it got fixed, which of course again made the diff 65MB. < 1248504279 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight it's finally down to a reasonable 8MB. < 1248508799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1248508800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1248511727 0 :leonid_!n=leonid_@124.137.214.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248511731 0 :leonid_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248516956 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1248517296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Way to worsen the balance, China < 1248517360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that won't worsen the balance, assuming it actually does decrease infanticide. < 1248517373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and abortions) < 1248517643 0 :Nowicjusz!n=ppp@chello089078252063.chello.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1248518089 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1248518584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, opinion on xfce? < 1248518659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248518729 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1248518763 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-124-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248518937 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248520024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1248520025 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248520027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1248520031 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248520058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: xfce is terrible. < 1248520072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? It seems quite nice and simple < 1248520115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to make XFCE: Take gnome. Make it uglier. Make it more obscure. Rewrite a ton of stuff because NIH. Add too many settings for its own good. < 1248520148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, KDE 4 sucks a lot. Gnome sucks even more. I tried both today. xfce4 seems rather nice. < 1248520161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list some better one < 1248520170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : X is bad. Why? Reasons. X is not bad. < 1248520193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, list some better one < 1248520211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfce may be far from perfect, but it seems better than the two other alternatives I tested < 1248520230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My broken English parser's stack overflowed, but Gnome is better. < 1248520241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1248520247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have some psychological control freak problems, try one of the window managers like pekwm. < 1248520314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw the touchpad is mutlitouch < 1248520325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes… like all Synaptics touchpads. < 1248520332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not synaptics < 1248520339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPS DualPoint < 1248520343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kay. < 1248520348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same driver though < 1248520368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, I can easily do the same to you; Gnome sucks even more. Why? < 1248520415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this is of course subjective. But it always seemed to lack settings, and have a kind of "dark" feeling, even if you changed theme < 1248520425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I dislike that dark feeling) < 1248520442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:56 AnMaster: suggested computer name for the thinkpad? \ < 1248520443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dingbat. < 1248520454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it timed out and I went for dragon < 1248520459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few hours ago < 1248520461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, wait, dark feel? < 1248520463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec. < 1248520471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but why dingbat? I might change if it is funny enough < 1248520477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.26/figures/gnome.png.en_GB < 1248520482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what stockG nome looks like. < 1248520485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*k G < 1248520492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having a hard time imagining something more... well... light. < 1248520493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1248520517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFCE is… much the same, so I don't understand at all. < 1248520526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was much worse a few years ago, but still not light like kdeclassic is. xfce4 needed a bit of poking to make it light < 1248520535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"light"? < 1248520545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I can't help you with undefined notions. < 1248520557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this is all subjective... < 1248520580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I seriously need to fix the fonts in xfce somehow... < 1248520583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternate universe: Why isn't XFCE nice? Its gloob is too zackynicky. Ohh < 1248520622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmer's Day - an informal festival programmers, celebrated on the 256-day year (255 th with a zero). Number 256 (2 8), chosen because it is the quantity of numbers, which can be expressed through vosmirazryadnogo bytes. Also, «256» in hexadecimal notation - it «100» ( «0x100»). And this is the maximum degree of 2, which is less than 365 (days per year). < 1248520624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 July 2009, the Ministry of Communications and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation prepared and submitted to the Government of the Russian Federation a draft Decree of President Russia «On the Day of the programmer" [2]. < 1248520638 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish wir muessen die juden ausrotten < 1248520638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1248520639 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vur mooessee deee-a joodee oosruttee < 1248520642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slight hinting helped < 1248520648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was using no hinting before < 1248520655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did you install the BCI freetype? < 1248520683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subpixel antialiasing is uselessly ugly without it. < 1248520683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure yet... I still haven't got stuff like wlan setup properly. And touchpad is kind of neurotic atm < 1248520693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, no-hinting just looks bad in freetype. < 1248520697 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248520728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't contradict or refute the materialist hypothesis because what I am speaking of is an unmeasurable internal state not observable behavior. " < 1248520730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1248520747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This exists because I say it does. It is not observable in any way, nor does it affect anything." < 1248520756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP < 1248520806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do I know if freetype is BCI? < 1248520820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could just check the PKGBUILD file < 1248520825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you using Ubuntu? If not, get a package marked super-illegal-bci-this-will-explode-in-to-your-FACE. < 1248520830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Arch Linux < 1248520833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~end of flowchart~ < 1248520838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was doing it in flowchart form. < 1248520844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1248520859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for abs to sync < 1248520864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, it'd be nice if you could clarify your feeling of brooding Gnome evil darkness. Maybe the window shadows?… they're not default, you know :P < 1248520894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, icon theme maybe < 1248520902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you, BTW, set the dpi properly? RGB antialiasing would incidentally look like crap with that being wrong too, BCI or not. < 1248520906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one part of it at least < 1248520909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is your gnome experience mainly with ubuntu? < 1248520920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its icon theme is not default or anything; it does make it quite dark indeed < 1248520941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think first time I used gnome was Red Hat 6 < 1248520946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I used it since then < 1248520952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mainly with SuSE iirc < 1248520962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tried it on arch today < 1248520963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1248520967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"evil dark gnomes, brooding" < 1248520977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice quit message < 1248520987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't say that that I read, but. < 1248521000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? Parse fail at "that that" < 1248521009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You didn't say that) that I read < 1248521020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok.. anyway: ehird, KDE 4 sucks a lot. Gnome sucks even more. I tried both today. xfce4 seems rather nice. < 1248521025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1248521036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, used each for maybe half an hour < 1248521046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd, personally, vote in favor of giving gnome a try and, like, changing the icon theme? But you using Gnome would pretty much destroy the universe, so. < 1248521059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not perfect, but no desktop environment is. < 1248521066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apart from the one you make yourself and only use its apps.) < 1248521075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did change icon theme < 1248521080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a few of the other ones < 1248521089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm NOT zzo? kay? < 1248521116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you try the Tango icons? < 1248521135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project // they're not flashy but they're quite … bright < 1248521142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248521145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about bytecode: < 1248521151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tango.freedesktop.org/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png < 1248521152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be a patch to enable it in arch < 1248521153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING < 1248521154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#undef TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING < 1248521161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-/* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */ < 1248521161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unpatented? < 1248521161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER < 1248521167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, undef. < 1248521168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-#undef TT_CONFIG_OPTION_COMPONENT_OFFSET_SCALED < 1248521169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_COMPONENT_OFFSET_SCALED < 1248521171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that would presumably do it. < 1248521182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and well it looks quite sane apart from DPI < 1248521195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you calculate DPI again? the one you gave me seems slightly wrong < 1248521211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Measure the diagonal size in inches of the screen, plz? < 1248521214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give an exact DPI. < 1248521226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a long enough ruler < 1248521240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for tape measures? < 1248521250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't have one < 1248521251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1248521254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 cm it seems < 1248521258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pretty close < 1248521267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edge stands out a bit in the upper part so can't get very close < 1248521268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 15.3" = 15.4" < 1248521273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1248521286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could it be 0.5 cm longer, perhaps? < 1248521298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that measurement is useless as it doesn't differentiate 15.4"/15.6" < 1248521309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hard to be sure < 1248521316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, try 128.65 = 129 < 1248521334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if the fonts look fine you might not have tried RGB antialiasing. Without the BCI, you can really see the red/green/blue. < 1248521335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems better < 1248521343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe that's why you hated it.) < 1248521361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it might not matter so much with such tiny pixels, but. < 1248521404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually X already pre-calculated it to 128, but then I started using your measurement and it got screwed up < 1248521411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess X got smarter nowdays < 1248521420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 128.6 is more like 129 than 128... < 1248521428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It presumably rounded to a power of two. < 1248521431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has 128 bitmaps. < 1248521431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was still quite close < 1248521434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1248521445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as opposed to windows going for 96 < 1248521459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows doesn't even try. < 1248521475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway touchpad is still neurotic < 1248521483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed the closed source drivers? < 1248521489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trackpoint seems saner after some fiddeling < 1248521491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are that? < 1248521493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Closed source being a good synonym for "working" in the field of drivers.) < 1248521500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dunno. Search the AUR? < 1248521508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, and the main list.) < 1248521512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well thinkwiki doesn't mention it < 1248521522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then < 1248521524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the usual open source synaptics drivers < 1248521533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just they need fiddling < 1248521566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1248521566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough < 1248521567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough Lame Computing - The project for rewriting the computing world < 1248521569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[…] < 1248521571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we are STILL learning Haskell - this language is teaching us a lot! (March 2008 - November 2009) < 1248521574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1248521576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reinvisioning computing without having a fucking clue about relevant languages fail. < 1248521588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err ... < 1248521601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quote just seems strange. I can't even figure out what part is wtf < 1248521605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe all= < 1248521607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1248521640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they have an ALL-ENCOMPASSING NICELY FORMATTED PAGE OF WONDERNESS that consists of saying something only slightly removed from "Hey, I tried Linux today. It's much better than Windows!" in context. < 1248521652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248521655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the only other links are to pages that are self-labeldly buzzwords. < 1248521735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is firefox called "shiretoko" < 1248521757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was iceweasel that was the non-branded one < 1248521775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nightly thing. < 1248521782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiretoko Alpha 1 Release Notes < 1248521782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 Sep 2008 ... Shiretoko Alpha 1 is an early developer milestone for the next version of Firefox that is being built on top of Mozilla's Gecko 1.9.1 layout ... < 1248521786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so I guess they stole the name for it. < 1248521790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you using a non-branded version? < 1248521794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248521801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, < 1248521802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sponsored Links < 1248521802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discover Shiretoko < 1248521804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I installed it from arch repo? < 1248521804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stories of a world natural heritage < 1248521806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :site and the Firefox web browser. < 1248521808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DiscoverShiretoko.org < 1248521811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Arch don't have the non-branded version? < 1248521814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. < 1248521821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sily. < 1248521823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With one l. < 1248521834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248521841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu does too? < 1248521849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and debian < 1248521857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Ubuntu. < 1248521860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sucked Mozilla's dick. < 1248521865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was, like, < 1248521867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ship my branding, baby. < 1248521871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's non-free but that's okay with me, baby. < 1248521875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baby, baby. < 1248521882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑↑ This is how Ubuntu decisions are made < 1248521889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but anyway doesn't have arch have non-free stuff in its repo? < 1248521906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend trying out one of those nifty WebKit browsers, but iirc one of them ignored my dpi settings or something when I last tried 'em. < 1248521931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arora's pretty cool though. < 1248521939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fits in with GTK environments too if you install that theme thingy. < 1248521949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GTK theme thingy.) < 1248521951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure. it might < 1248521959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What might what? < 1248521965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, arch < 1248521967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch have non-free < 1248521978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets yaourt then http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=5401 < 1248522043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thinkhdaps, you mean < 1248522048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hdapsd < 1248522054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1248522056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1248522058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a gtk applet for it < 1248522059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248522060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1248522119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.discovershiretoko.org/en/stories/;; Damn Mozilla corp, this shit is strained < 1248522122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ;; < 1248522167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1248522664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1248522675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know laptop has hdaps, it worked under windows < 1248522681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet linux claims it isn't supported < 1248522682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1248522700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Linux: It just works!” < 1248522710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“*working may involve doing it yourself” < 1248522716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most stuff does on desktops though < 1248522727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And more laptops are sold than desktops. :P < 1248522735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? huh < 1248522738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248523654 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1248523663 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1248524281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start speaking like Dijkstra or something. < 1248524499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1248525160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248525518 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248526206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems to have hit some sort of wlan bug < 1248526682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails to assoc for several minutes after a cold boot < 1248526701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does your mom! < 1248526702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like same as this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-wireless-networking-41/wifi-connection-instantly-dissassociating-on-hp2510p-using-iwlagn-driver-692665/?s=f40682f15c4e0a045ce9e004a347851a < 1248526712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, my router is not n < 1248526716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly the same < 1248526723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but very similar < 1248528850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[As a deist[…]To me, the most basic definition of God is the turtle on the bottom. When and if science comes up with proof of the nature of the basis of our universe, I will continue to call that God.]] < 1248528854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I hate pantheistic deism. < 1248528864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, I believe in God! If by God you mean NATURAL PROCESSES." < 1248529187 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248529199 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248529330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,805681,00.html If only this took off then; we'd have progressed beyond copyright decades sooner! We're currently nearing the end of "Phonevision"... funny. < 1248529341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay got suspend to ram to work < 1248529346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for suspend to disk < 1248529367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess ThinkPads aren't quite as out-of-the-box Linuxy as they once were? < 1248529376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1248529389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this seems like a rather new model. As in: nothing knows about it < 1248529404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The R500s are like circa 2007 I think. < 1248529408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the specific model is new. < 1248529414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think it is < 1248529416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did you get an R500 or something else?) < 1248529417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1248529422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, an R500 < 1248529425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1248529430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl ->->A < 1248529435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/A$/ < 1248529436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl ->-> < 1248529645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that Phonevision era's $1 = today's $8.20) < 1248529873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspend to disk worked out of box. Just one thiny issue: BIOS sees it as a normal bootup. Can probably be easily fixed < 1248529972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual suspend works with same settings as for suspend to ram < 1248529981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1248529986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1248529999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think I typoed that < 1248530009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you close the case? < 1248530051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't set up acpid yet < 1248530058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing < 1248530071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good answer :D < 1248530084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, the first issue with suspend to ram was that it didn't turn on backlight afterwards < 1248530097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just had to tell it to rerun VBE POST < 1248530112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what that *means* < 1248530154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. It basically means tell video bios to reinitialise it's own state < 1248530167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now suspend to both works... < 1248530180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err kind of < 1248530197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not really. that messed up a bit < 1248530203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debugs < 1248530210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice pattern though < 1248530222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical blue lines with some Missingno there < 1248530227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1248530243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could just type reboot by hand and it worked < 1248530261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad computers like ,e. < 1248530261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me. < 1248530268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Generally.) < 1248530269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1248530297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That generally wasn't referring to the typo. < 1248530301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you take it as that? < 1248530333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1248530339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:57 ehird: I'm glad computers like ,e. < 1248530339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:57 ehird: me. < 1248530341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:57 ehird: (Generally.) < 1248530343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally was just a random remark. < 1248530346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248530346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a "haha, how ironic, it made me typo".\ < 1248530349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1248530357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1248530365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non. < 1248530369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was "hah" about that they "generally like you" < 1248530389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1248530393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are not in interpreting error state. < 1248530394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... suspend two both is having serious issues... not sure why < 1248530421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to think about it from its perspective. < 1248530427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, okay, we're suspending to RAM, okay, that's good, okay..." < 1248530432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reboots to restore video < 1248530433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now er... wait, i can't do something, I'm suspended" < 1248530442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shit. Shit. That doesn't make any fucking sense. What did I do?" < 1248530444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it saves to disk first... < 1248530450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What did I do now? Maybe I'll just break carefully." < 1248530451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Umm, no. < 1248530453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it suspended < 1248530458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is that it suspends before saving to disk… < 1248530461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean that's the issue? < 1248530482 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-99.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1248530487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it did. I saw the text saying: "suspending to disk...." for a few seconds, then the suspend to ram led came on < 1248530513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that wasn't the full suspension < 1248530516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just the strat < 1248530516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start < 1248530529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your drive is not fast enough to write 4GB of RAM to disk in a few seconds < 1248530538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, linux doesn't write it all < 1248530542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it writes what is used < 1248530544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1248530547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…which is most of it. < 1248530549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caches. < 1248530551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compresses with gzip or something like that < 1248530557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1248530558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay then < 1248530563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dirty caches are flushed first < 1248530567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can drop all caches < 1248530568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1248530576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when doing to disk that is < 1248530577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eww, dirty caches. That's just bad hygiene. < 1248530584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dirty as in, buffers < 1248530587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet synced < 1248530592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with fsync() or such < 1248530890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspend to both works in X though < 1248530893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not from console < 1248531492 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1248531620 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248531629 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248532473 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248532852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the Windows 7 RC; VMWare Fusion < 1248533246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248533370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://profile.microsoft.com/RegSysProfileCenter/… ;; No, microsoft, you cannot run your component on my OS X system. < 1248533376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work that way. < 1248533876 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248533879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What web browsers support the Windows 7 RC download experience? < 1248533879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Explorer 7, Internet Explorer 8, and Firefox support the Windows 7 RC download experience. Please note that Internet Explorer 8 users behind a proxy server should use the automatic configuration for their proxy server for the best download experience. < 1248533882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…………………… < 1248533894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to a new browser for the "Windows 7 RC download experience"! < 1248533896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experience it! < 1248533905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…Watch exciting progress bars? < 1248533918 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1248533933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…so how am I meant to download Windows 7 WITHOUT ALREADY HAVING WINDOWS? < 1248534040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to try ubuntu instead. Hopefully it will work better out of box on this computer. Even though I will dislike it. < 1248534048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go, a direct link. < 1248534053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they have a live cd < 1248534058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They do, it's all they have. < 1248534062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can try it first without installing it < 1248534063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get, of course, the 64-bit version. < 1248534073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IIRC it persists your settings too. < 1248534079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can make Gnome all fluffy and... non-dark... before installing. < 1248534095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it cd or dvd? < 1248534099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD. < 1248534101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes of course the 64 bit one < 1248534110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Considering you have 4GB of RAM... < 1248534165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, you also agreed with me yesterday < 1248534168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're trying Ubuntu < 1248534174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you're feeling okay? < 1248534182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check your forehead, you might have a fever... the UNIVERSE might have a fever... < 1248534219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only to see if it works better out of box here. Since I can't get sound to work under arch either for it. And it has so not *that* unusual. < 1248534235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I hope it can handle encrypted home properly < 1248534236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1248534239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can. < 1248534249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all but /boot on lvm < 1248534251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu will work perfectly out of the box on just about any machine, especially ThinkPads, as they're popular for Linux. < 1248534261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, you'll have to do some hacking with a chroot for that... < 1248534273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ext4 too IIRC < 1248534275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd just encrypt the whole / < 1248534277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it only was rolling release < 1248534283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :/ < 1248534292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Eh, it'd work fine, no? < 1248534306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, messier < 1248534314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But what if someone steals your /etc, dude? < 1248534320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or your secret kernel? < 1248534330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1248534395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure takes a long time to download... < 1248534397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It appears to be quite easy to do an "unencrypted /boot, encrypted /" partition dealie. < 1248534400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pick another mirror. < 1248534406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest Germany. < 1248534407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is maxing out my connection :P < 1248534411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1248534435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 697 MB large iso takes a bit < 1248534439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on most connections < 1248534446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it might be worth installing Ubuntu stock and migrating to encrypted later < 1248534448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a bit fiddly < 1248534456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure I will install it < 1248534462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant if you do decide to < 1248534470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on if alsa and wireless and suspend to ram and so on works on the livecd or not < 1248534489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Almost certainly, although I'm not sure how suspend to RAM interacts with LiveCDs. < 1248534497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good point < 1248534499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'll be quite slow, because, y'know, CD. < 1248534507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course < 1248534514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't think the wlan will work properly < 1248534520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh? < 1248534523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme tell you a story. < 1248534528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, open bugs at kernel.org < 1248534529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1248534535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu patch their kernel < 1248534537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, < 1248534559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the devs doesn't know if it is the wlan driver or wpa_supplicant causing the issues. < 1248534565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some combination < 1248534596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my mother's computer, she bought a really cheap Phillips wireless USB dongle. Crappy plasticy-feeling thing, has terrible Windows drivers, never worked properly, etc. At one point, I installed Ubuntu on it for her, unplugged the ethernet, and plugged it in, expecting to have to do some hacking. The wireless icon appeared. I clicked it, selected a network, and it was connected. < 1248534598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't even install any drivers < 1248534613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd wager that if a no-name USB WiFi adapter works without doing anything, ThinkPad wireless will too < 1248534614 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@h033207.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1248534623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1248534628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1248534635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed. And this wlan works very well usually. Even intel are behind it < 1248534642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just a bug < 1248534646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yah. < 1248534653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu backport an awful lot of fixes and the like, tho. < 1248534662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Good news. < 1248534663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ext4 Howto - Ext4 < 1248534663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 9.04 and later include ext4 as a manual partitioning option at installation time, including support for ext4 as the root filesystem. ... < 1248534668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't fixed yet though. So unless they have a time machine? < 1248534689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you install it and want to encrypt it's still probably better to migrate later when you have a working system, but ext4 is just a click in a dropdown. < 1248534696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rolled back the breaking change? < 1248534716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't ship a release that messes up common wifi < 1248534718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not a regression it seems. Rather it is an issue on very new chipsets. < 1248534725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1248534728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp, we'll see < 1248534751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if sound works however... < 1248534765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be very, very surprised if Intel chipset sound didn't work immediately. < 1248534769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well suspend to ram works. So does suspend to disk. Just not suspend to both < 1248534793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Ubuntu comes with the BCI freetype OOTB, which is nice. < 1248534819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/OOTB/out of the box/; can't be using confusing terminology now can we < 1248534848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah got it to work under arch < 1248534854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to unload and reload the module once < 1248534857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(huh?) < 1248534863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's logical. < 1248534876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1248534879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sarcasm. < 1248534937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, http://imgur.com/WkkQL.png < 1248534952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very good quality speakers in it though. But meh, I have yet to see a laptop with good speakers < 1248534966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A laptop with good speakers is a laptop that doesn't fit on your lap and can't close. < 1248534980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even this iMac's speakers take up the whole bottom grill. < 1248534983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from a bit in the middle. < 1248534987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you open to get at the RAM. < 1248535073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I'm only going ubuntu then if wlan works without issues (there is an open bug in launchpad for it... not likely) and/or if suspend to ram, closing the lid and so on all works < 1248535099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nm that launchpad bug < 1248535101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you only want it if it's perfect, not better? < 1248535105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was for 11n network < 1248535106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248535115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm connecting to g < 1248535116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248535120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well might be related < 1248535121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1248535122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1248535136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was going to say that I might change anyway if things seem good enough < 1248535144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now sound isn't a factor any more < 1248535159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where are the checksums for ubuntu isos < 1248535178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You actually check checksums? < 1248535185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably on some FTP somewhere. < 1248535187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for isos? yes definitely < 1248535220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1248535241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only md5? seriously wth < 1248535268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpg signature would be best, but I at least expected sha256sums < 1248535392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I see the value of a fancy checksum if you're getting the checksum from pretty much the same place as the ISO image itself. < 1248535392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're the only one who cares… < 1248535406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe gamma rays corrupted the ISO to have a virus dood < 1248535409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In transit < 1248535422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll wipe all of AnMaster's valuable files on his laptop. < 1248535422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248535424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's had it for years, you know. < 1248535432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd is marked as 700 MB, well should fit < 1248535434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, a md5sum would detect accidental corruption just as well. < 1248535442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not intentional though < 1248535442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes... all CDs are the same size... < 1248535448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't have any on the laptop yet < 1248535451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248535461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the thing. An MD5 is useless. < 1248535464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, for intentional corruption they've obviously changed the checksums too; that's why I said "getting it from the same place". < 1248535470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only detects "this is fucked up man", which happens WHEN YOU BOOT IT. < 1248535474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um... CDs used to be 650 MB IIRC? < 1248535474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they have CRCs in the bootloader thingy. < 1248535481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back long ago < 1248535494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD-Rs at least < 1248535502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD-ROM < 1248535502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Media type Optical disc < 1248535503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capacity 184 MiB (8 cm) < 1248535505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :650-900 MB (12 cm) < 1248535507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1248535510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiB then MB? < 1248535511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. < 1248535513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure I see the value of a fancy checksum if you're getting the checksum from pretty much the same place as the ISO image itself. <-- I wasn't < 1248535519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD-ROM capacities are normally expressed with binary prefixes, subtracting the space used for error correction data. A standard 120 mm, "700 MB" CD-ROM can hold about 847 MB of data, or 737 MB (703 MiB) with error correction. In comparison, a single-layer DVD-ROM can hold 4.7 GB of error-protected data, more than 6 CD-ROMs. < 1248535521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the checksum was listed on their website < 1248535525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the mirror < 1248535533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the website is owned by the mirror guys, duh < 1248535539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they push out a change the other guys get it too < 1248535559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the same mirror :P So a bit less risk *in theory* but yeah I would much have preferred a gpg signature < 1248535567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION burns it < 1248535579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETA: 31 minutes < 1248535585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your CD drive sucks. < 1248535592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no the cds sucks < 1248535599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be limited to 8x < 1248535603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1248535605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some no-name cd < 1248535611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one I had around < 1248535675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cdimage.ubuntu.com's dvd images for karmic koala daily-builds have MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 checksums; I guess they're getting there. < 1248535865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LONDON — Harry Patch, the last soldier to fight in the trenches of Europe during World War I, died Saturday at the age of 111, his care home in southwest England said. < 1248535866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patch, who fought at the Battle of Passchendaele in 1917, was also Britain's oldest man following the death of fellow veteran Henry Allingham, who was also the world's oldest man, one week ago. < 1248535874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before him lasted like two weeks < 1248535875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1248536022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok I think I mostly got suspend working under arch too. Not perfectly but quite a lot better < 1248536035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu is still burning < 1248536040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure is a lot of work you're having to do there. < 1248536063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually the system is missing from the "whitelist" < 1248536076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that s2ram uses < 1248536100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racism. < 1248536107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248536119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show source < 1248536119 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt)S < 1248536130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def source ul (http://git.zem.fi/fungot)S < 1248536130 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1248536136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well use that thing. < 1248536137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1248536137 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1248536152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOOOOOOOO! NOT GIT! < 1248536168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ew, it's gitweb.) < 1248536179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now, there was a package. < 1248536219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1248536280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... hibernate-tools seems to work better < 1248536287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have some thinkpad workaround < 1248536626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots ubuntu < 1248536652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah btw I found out what the sound problem actually was: a permission problem < 1248536661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_x < 1248536661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user was not in right group, so my own faukt < 1248536663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fault* < 1248536680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved it by: gpasswd -a anmaster audio < 1248536689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ubuntu cd to boot < 1248536990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm wireless works sometimes in arch too. a cold reboot often fixes the issue. So that it works means nothing. Needs more testing < 1248537034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, would have suspected Ubuntu to grant audio-group access with the login.defs CONSOLE_GROUPS or some such mechanism for X logins. It doesn't sound the Ubuntu way to have users fiddle with that sort of stuff. < 1248537051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was on arch < 1248537051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's doing it with Arch. < 1248537059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, that's another thing entirely. < 1248537061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway issue with ubuntu: < 1248537069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no LVM tools on livecd < 1248537071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1248537074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1248537084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't check if it works to mount then < 1248537086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, if you want Ubuntu, it's really best just to go with /boot and /. < 1248537109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean then I don't want ubuntu? I see < 1248537127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also continue suffering through Arch if you want < 1248537152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could use fuse! < 1248537161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1248537165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1248537168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse + unionfs < 1248537173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :……for what? < 1248537175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I meant < 1248537181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to allow installing in the livecd env < 1248537183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1248537194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does install in the LiveCD environment. < 1248537198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Seriously, if you're going to do a complex installation (like setting up LVM), use Debian. < 1248537200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1248537203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To RAM. < 1248537208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But he's on a _laptop_. < 1248537212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a 160GB drive. Total. < 1248537222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's only partitioning because he wants to encrypt /home. < 1248537223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So? < 1248537229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he doesn't want to encrypt / for some reason. < 1248537235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm saying that anything but /boot & / is just silly < 1248537259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248537296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there we go. lvm installed in tmpfs on livecd < 1248537307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the livecd does use unionfs or such < 1248537349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want the smooth, integrated, everything-just-works experience of Ubuntu. Now how do I tweak the installation process? < 1248537382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: use Debian if you want Ubuntu's "Just Works"™ but tweakable. < 1248537385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it all depends on how livecd turns out < 1248537399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that that's pretty much what Debian is for desktop usage these days. < 1248537469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see if it can browse the file system on my phone < 1248537471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch could < 1248537477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was painless there < 1248537503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Said like someone who's never used Ubuntu. < 1248537506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is, really, milse apart. < 1248537508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*miles < 1248537512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has a _ton_ of tweaks and integration. < 1248537530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Said like someone who's not used Debian since Ubuntu became popular. < 1248537585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I have. < 1248537592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've _only_ used Debian since Ubuntu became popular. < 1248537598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1248537609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I got the "tap trackpoint to click" working in arch < 1248537610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're highly underestimating the configuration and integration the Ubuntu team does. < 1248537622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work out of box and no setting in the mouse thingy for it under ubuntu < 1248537641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is pretty damn tweaked from raw sources, and Ubuntu is pretty damn tweaked from Debian. < 1248537680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: methinks you're going into ubuntu with the mindset of trying to find something wrong about it so you can quickly dismiss it… < 1248537685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it appears that way from hear < 1248537686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1248537693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hear\nhere/here/ < 1248537704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to see if I will actually gain anything from it first < 1248537707 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I here it that way from hear too ;) < 1248537714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mauls GregorR < 1248537728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think we can both agree that he should be using a more tweakable distro if he's going to be tweaking his distro, though. ;) < 1248537749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I also think that in this case, his tweaks are just making life hard for him within the restraints of his laptop. < 1248537769 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS < 1248537769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it probably would be nicer to have an encrypted root. < 1248537773 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS is the only distro worth using. < 1248537777 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who don't use LFS are losers. < 1248537781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Ubuntu handles *that* gracefully, either, though. < 1248537797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's not the thing, though < 1248537803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants LVM so he can resize /home and / < 1248537805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1248537808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the HD is small < 1248537810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can't anticipate < 1248537811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1248537820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he only wants to separate /home and / so he can only encrypt the former < 1248537832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since LVM is a pain on Ubuntu, I'm saying he should just encrypt / < 1248537836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it'd be a lot simpler. < 1248537848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok found how to browse file system by bluethooth < 1248537850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling < 1248537863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying he should just use a different distro. LVM is nice. It should be used everywhere. :P < 1248537865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thooth :D < 1248537888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If we're being idealistic, partitions for a single OS suck. < 1248537898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just have a partition per OS, and store objects on it instead of files. < 1248537905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have an orthogonal persistence system. < 1248537907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And. And. And. < 1248537910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, back in reality. < 1248537937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If we're being idealistic, OSes should not suck. < 1248537938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1248537941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1248537972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closing lid did not suspend < 1248537977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1248537984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a setting *looks* < 1248538009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1248538036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an alternate universe: < 1248538041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just a package to emerge. < 1248538043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and a few configuration files. < 1248538046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and a kernel recompilation. < 1248538058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not likely < 1248538089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, 5 minutes until Windows is downloaded. < 1248538093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(↑ Something I never thought I'd say) < 1248538126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1248538142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set how long it should be inactive for turning of the screen < 1248538150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't drag it below 11 minutes though < 1248538155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a bit weird/silly < 1248538167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248538173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20090724/ ← Hahahaha. I see they've read http://xkcd.com/605/ < 1248538186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, why 11 minutes in ubuntu < 1248538188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense < 1248538193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It… goes down to 11? < 1248538197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a Gnome thing, also. < 1248538200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the slide bar yes < 1248538205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a joke. < 1248538207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spinal Tap. < 1248538234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, probably they picked 10 full, complete minutes of idleness < 1248538242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then when it hits the 11 minute (after 10 full minutes), it goes off. < 1248538242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as lower limit? hm < 1248538244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1248538259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather arbitrary, but wanting it to go off after 5 minutes or something would be silly, so. < 1248538282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why should they prevent users from doing that? < 1248538317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my *phone* turns off backlight after 10 *seconds* or so < 1248538319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because then the slider bar would be less granular because it would be the same size with bigger range < 1248538320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what screen < 1248538325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so 99% of people would suffer. < 1248538329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the needs of a crazy 1%. < 1248538333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much faster when it displays the "press ... to unlock" < 1248538338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those 1% can either use something else or use gconf-editor. < 1248538357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very.... gnomeish < 1248538367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe kubuntu would be better < 1248538368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usability is stripping out everything unneeded or extremely unlikely and then presenting the rest as fluidly and quickly as possible. < 1248538384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to abandon a usable interface because you can't set your sleep time to <11 minutes, uhh, feel free. < 1248538393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange how every critic of Gnome is such a control freak. < 1248538406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, Windows 7 RC downloaded. < 1248538412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...? I just dislike dumbed down systems < 1248538416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dumbed down. < 1248538425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If we allow any amount of minutes. Why not seconds? < 1248538427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why dumb it down? < 1248538434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I like my system to go off after precisely 3 minutes 14 seconds? < 1248538437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Milliseconds? < 1248538445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your response is presumably "no, because that's ridiculous; who needs that?". < 1248538467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." < 1248538471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bit of rephrasing it's quite applicable here. < 1248538488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it's "yeah, the slider should have the same granularity as the kernel call that eventually uses the value" < 1248538510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are you arguing that the user interface should be dictated by the internal code? < 1248538520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, please don't say yes. < 1248538529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, by the limits of the underlying system. < 1248538541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat the same thing, I guess. < 1248538552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the same thing. < 1248538554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not really arguing it, just presenting a hypothetical. < 1248538564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you arguing for my point of AnMaster's? < 1248538566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where I really stand on the matter. < 1248538575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is about being less specific than the underlying interface. < 1248538579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*underlying code < 1248538606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is, I guess: why restrict the UI if the code can do more < 1248538630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because usability is ALL ABOUT figuring out the must natural and fluid way to present the realistic operations and optimising heavily for them. < 1248538653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may get you extreme precision to flex your system abs; it doesn't get you a simple, usable, consistent interface vs a mass of sluggish knick-knacks. < 1248538666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are, of course, compromises. I find they rarely matter in practice, and those that do tend to be bugs. < 1248538675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1248538793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same wlan issues on ubuntu after suspending a few times btw... < 1248538794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1248538802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Freaky chipset, I guess. < 1248538805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing you can really do. < 1248538832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File a bug somewhere. < 1248538835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slide bar should just be an input hole waiting for a value, you should be able to insert your own gadget in there if you want more precision. < 1248538838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is already one < 1248538845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then wait until it's fixed. < 1248538847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, a slide bar should just be the default filler for the hole, that is < 1248538854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that basically meshes with my OO OS design, yah < 1248538868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it handles it far more elegantly than just making a gigantic slider < 1248538897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have you seen tangible functional programming or whatever at google talks? i've had very similar ideas, and found some of it rather interesting < 1248538907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've heard the general concept < 1248538920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Smalltalk is basically close to the perfect model < 1248538954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am vaguely of the opinion that there needs to be a strongly typed OS. < 1248538957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248538977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/'s Dana. < 1248538987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IΞ < 1248539000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strongly-typed, purely functional, dependently typed, FRP programming language & OS. < 1248539006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but yeah I might do gnome on arch (as a test) < 1248539008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1248539009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vaporware) < 1248539013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to compare with ubuntu < 1248539016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw. < 1248539022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it weren't vaporware, then <3. < 1248539024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically interfaces are just ways to visualize objects, and interaction is done with functions, say a program where you can rotate a pic would be a function from reals to pics to rotated pics, which would be represented as an input box for a real and an input and an output box for function output for those inputs. < 1248539028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu's Gnome is generally a better Gnome because of the added integration < 1248539046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and an input box for the pix < 1248539047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pic < 1248539057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is possible. Why not push the patches upstream? < 1248539065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some at least < 1248539072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they integrate Gnome with the OS and their own cherry-picked services < 1248539076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just with each other < 1248539078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1248539083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Gnome is really about the total-system integration < 1248539087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a lot could be pushed upstream < 1248539102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: method rotate: on BitmapImage, give it a number of any kind < 1248539107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It would also be totally awesome to have an arrow-and-monad-based CLI. < 1248539129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could e.g. tell BitmapEditor to add a rotate button to the toolbar < 1248539130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, designing something like that is actual work. < 1248539131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that invokes that < 1248539132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1248539136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about views on objects < 1248539142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can manipulate objects, and have views on them < 1248539151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are ways of visualising and manipulating the object < 1248539157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no programs, just views and methods aggregated from everywhere < 1248539247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the platonic ideal of what an OS should be, implemented < 1248539265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like KDE on crack. < 1248539276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :representing and changing arbitrary things in any way < 1248539282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sort of < 1248539302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/HDAPS#How_to_install_the_driver <-- aha < 1248539305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why it doesn't work < 1248539308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, since that's basically what KDE does (sort-of) for its GUI code. < 1248539315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: tfp does that, and adds automatic interface composition to function composition < 1248539317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please take a look at that section < 1248539319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly that < 1248539319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Similar. < 1248539322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, of course, they don't touch the underlying system aside from abstraction layers. < 1248539324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then tell me what will be easiest < 1248539325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: automatic interface composition? < 1248539326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1248539328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's purely functional < 1248539329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that under arch or ubuntu < 1248539329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1248539330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1248539334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo : thingthatCanRotate -> thingthatCanFly -> < 1248539337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't work under ubuntu either < 1248539337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thingthatcanrotateandfly? < 1248539340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't prepatch it < 1248539365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can have a rotator and a scaler, and you can fuse ones output to the other's input to have a component that does both < 1248539389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ubuntuforums.org < 1248539391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search the howto section < 1248539393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should check out the talk, it has interesting ideas < 1248539394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll be an easy way < 1248539401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well right, that's trivial < 1248539417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: trivial maybe, but your ideal smalltalk model doesn't do it < 1248539419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: use a rotator view on a BitmapImage < 1248539426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then use a scaler view on the rotator's image < 1248539437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1248539440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true. < 1248539453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could easily abstract it < 1248539457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing relly < 1248539459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*realy < 1248539461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248539461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1248539462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1248539470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think the object analogy works better for an OS < 1248539481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the point is just to have outputs and inputs be objects you can actually move around however you want. < 1248539488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-classity < 1248539494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but yeah, you the essential components are objects, their methods, and views < 1248539506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the views are what let you interact, compose etc the objects and act on their methods < 1248539526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just make it be strongly typed and we're good. :P < 1248539533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, object analogies work better for oses, this was more of an application/ui designer stuff; or maybe it's just the fact the developers were haskellers < 1248539537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm not sure < 1248539545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: typeclasses burden the system's fluidity < 1248539555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to make up new types of images on the go and piece together things in unexpected ways < 1248539563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the more rigid typeclass system < 1248539565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmm. < 1248539579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you could, of course, do things like implement methods in Haskell < 1248539592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and entire subsystems < 1248539606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the top-level object system is more liberating with a duck-OO system < 1248539613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more-or-less imagining using typeclasses to make an OS provably secure via a typechecker < 1248539627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute. < 1248539639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1248539658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: /sbin/iwconfig: Input/output error < 1248539660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Windows. < 1248539665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file says it doesn't exist either < 1248539670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not readable < 1248539678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had this VM for a few *days* and it's got viruses. < 1248539703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's ran for maybe a few hours. < 1248539795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used windows all my life, and i've had one virus < 1248539821 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was completely my own fault < 1248539827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... It... Came in the service pack? < 1248539832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really use protection < 1248539834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Infecting notepad.exe? < 1248539836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i opened an exe < 1248539843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that had a virus < 1248539853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: don't use protection ay? < 1248539854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of babies! < 1248539856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virus babies < 1248539865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vabies" < 1248539884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sex, i make my partners use protection; for computers, that's kinda too much work. < 1248539914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i guess i have some virus protection now < 1248539918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i ever let it actually run < 1248539941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does some checking transparently, i don't really have the faintest < 1248539977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha the safari 4.0.2 update is 40.2MB < 1248540055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol < 1248540064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeesh < 1248540071 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naked piano huh < 1248540089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more naked and less piano. < 1248540094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you should play some philip glass. < 1248540116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuzzat < 1248540122 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :philip glass is a composer. < 1248540129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i got that. < 1248540136 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=philip+glass&search_type=&aq=f < 1248540175 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNiOqa1nWgI&feature=fvst << SO true < 1248540196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i play it? < 1248540200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you like it? < 1248540202 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its pretty! < 1248540233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg that video is so true < 1248540260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i noticed < 1248540264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fun... ubuntu's network manager crashed even < 1248540266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1248540269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listened to 5 seconds of one of his songs, and that. < 1248540271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248540281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened to be the same thing < 1248540322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems older wpa_supplicant might work < 1248540324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to try < 1248540340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he say "b minor"? < 1248540403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e minor < 1248540419 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol omg < 1248540421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. that's one of the most used progressions in all western music < 1248540421 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch that video < 1248540430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its literally ALL of philip glass in one video < 1248540431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it < 1248540449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the he doesn't know names of chord < 1248540451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1248540456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-.sadfoadfig < 1248540458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*he < 1248540580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torley is a silly man :D < 1248540621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he is correct in that glass seems to be kinda trivial music < 1248540626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambience < 1248540634 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing about glass's music is not that its complex so much < 1248540635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambient is not trivial < 1248540651 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its that its got a lot of structure < 1248540678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most is. < 1248540686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1248540715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the notes of mozart's piano pieces are a random walk, then the notes of philip glass's piano pieces are a fractal < 1248540753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i'm saying is that kinda stuff is trivial to compose < 1248540761 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like good trance, if you look at a small interval, and then look later at another interval of the same size, youll see a lot of similarity. its only when you pull out that you see the structure < 1248540775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, maybe it is. but it doesnt seem to be. < 1248540799 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, while torley gets a lot of the glassian style correct, at a low level, the 3-to-20 note level, on a larger scale he fails < 1248540845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when you pull out ey < 1248540848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY WHEN YOU PULL OUT < 1248540867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think philip glass's style is less about the complexities of the initial writing of the music, so much as the complexities of making it all work together locally and globally < 1248540873 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like a canon, i think < 1248540874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder, if you don't use virus protection, is pulling out cancelling the bogus install process? < 1248540880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motif of a canon isnt necessarily complicated < 1248540887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are the principles of canon construction < 1248540903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet canons are still amazingly difficult to do right < 1248540922 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect that canons are probably some of the easiest music to compose with a computer, tho < 1248540942 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its mostly just constraint programming < 1248540969 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it that was all "wee computer music! :D"? < 1248540970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorr? < 1248540972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR! < 1248540991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: the details of the chords are interesting. melody is trivial, and chord progressions are basically copy pasted from all pop ever made. < 1248541001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my opinion on first listening < 1248541002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/algorhythms/ < 1248541017 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: its not just chord progressions tho < 1248541025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by details of the chords i mean the arpeggios < 1248541034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about glass's music is that its chord progression progressions < 1248541040 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chord progression progression progressions < 1248541048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth < 1248541059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the whole structure? i'm not especially interested in those, so yeah i maybe not be the best judge either, but didn't seem special in any way. < 1248541081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to listen to actual philip glass music tho < 1248541085 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just torley's thing < 1248541092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly do short riffs, that's why i like metal. < 1248541100 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a lot like japanese music as well < 1248541110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle, anyway < 1248541116 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was me. < 1248541126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't listening to torley < 1248541126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional japanese music isnt about the complexity of the pieces or the local complexity of the notes < 1248541133 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well then! < 1248541139 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: do you do canons? < 1248541176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, virus is t3h fixéd. Just pulled notepad.exe from the Windows ISO... < 1248541241 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: My algorhythms have no concept of "styles" of music. < 1248541245 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1248541251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try to write a canon writing program < 1248541265 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canons suck though :P < 1248541279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuu < 1248541285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, theyre awesomely algorithmic < 1248541315 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'struth < 1248541325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what canons are < 1248541336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1248541349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean the thing where the a melody is played on top of itself < 1248541355 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and no < 1248541359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it meant when i sang in a choir. < 1248541363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not simply a melody on top of itself < 1248541372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a satanist choir < 1248541375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a fugue, of sorts. < 1248541380 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a canon is like a fugue on speed < 1248541385 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in canons, you have a motif < 1248541392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't go wrong with speed < 1248541396 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets duplicated multiply, usually. < 1248541406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play it once normally < 1248541415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then play it again, maybe offset in time < 1248541423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :offset in time? < 1248541424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i can't spawn new processes < 1248541431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds weird. < 1248541437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like you start playing a few notes later relative to the first instance < 1248541439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you kill something if you can't spawn a process? AnMaster? < 1248541443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the row-row-row-your-boat fugue < 1248541443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1248541446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can spawn a shell < 1248541453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: original still playing you mean? < 1248541458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1248541459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248541459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps doesn't terminate < 1248541460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1248541465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, then it's not weird. < 1248541468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you offset it in pitch, so you play it twice at different pitches < 1248541475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you play it upside down < 1248541488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where the notes transition up in the original, they transition down in the copy < 1248541490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you mean a chromatic transposition or in scale? < 1248541498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. either! i dont know < 1248541502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you play it backwards < 1248541508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you play it twice speed < 1248541509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or half speed < 1248541523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you combine these together < 1248541528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you do it multiple times < 1248541538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did your mom < 1248541540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple times < 1248541555 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the motif is being played three, four, five times upside down backwards twice as fast, etc etc < 1248541585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because of the combinations, you end up getting chords, usually < 1248541604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you ALSO strive to achieve chord progressions that are, by themselves, quite elegant and beautiful < 1248541608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my process is often similar to that, after which i find a local optimum by moving the individual notes a bit, while keeping some local structure consistent < 1248541613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmm i love my songs < 1248541619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the different instances of the motif, by themselves, are beautiful < 1248541619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens < 1248541633 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are the combination of them taken as a whole < 1248541654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: sounds awesome. < 1248541657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bach is probably the most famous canonier < 1248541666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fuguer < 1248541677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fugues tho, afaik, are usually simple canons with a time offset < 1248541726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofcourse you can have secondary motifs < 1248541730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tertiary motifs < 1248541731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth < 1248541770 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick to writing canons and fugues is having a single motif that sounds good multiple ways < 1248541776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which also combines with itself elegantly < 1248541825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY good fugues, in my opinion, are structured so that the single motif, plus its permutations, combine in such a way that the combination itself has complex structure that isn't obvious form just the motif < 1248541858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :permutations huh < 1248541866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. maybe there's a crescendo halfway through the piece, but no motif has a crescendo < 1248541930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only interested in rhythm and pitch, but i get it. < 1248541957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: interesting local structures in these algorhythms or yours < 1248541982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why i think that canons are perfect for an algorithmic treatment < 1248542009 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1248542023 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motifs have to be good by themselves < 1248542023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one pretty interesting thing in that one song of yours, but i couldn't quite make the details out from your playing, i think it was number 10, that thing where you bang the piano like an elephant. < 1248542034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the chord progressions their combination produces also has to be good < 1248542035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Isn't kill a builtin < 1248542042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know, an elephant that knows how to play < 1248542046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making it all fit is IDEAL for a constraint programming system < 1248542082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no disagreement there < 1248542143 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canons and fugues themselves have relative simply underlying principles < 1248542153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but I didn't know the process ID < 1248542155 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motif + variations < 1248542163 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like philip glass's music < 1248542175 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oklopol, i left out some versions < 1248542177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: do you publish score? < 1248542180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for i in $(seq 1 65535); do kill -9 $i; done < 1248542184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll hit it eventually < 1248542196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i did that by holding down the power button < 1248542200 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in canons sometimes youll get the motif shifting around by some notes here or there < 1248542207 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shifts of the motif itself play out the motif < 1248542222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: With a bit of luck the pid of the target process is lower than the pid of your shell < 1248542223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for disk to settle down then restarts VM < 1248542231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of self-symmetries < 1248542239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes but otoh all my other shit was below. < 1248542240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing else important has a pid lower than your shell < 1248542242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1248542244 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the motif might be a progression of notes 1234 < 1248542264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you play it again, but shifting the first note of the motif to start at the second note < 1248542267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now its 2345 < 1248542269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Run important stuff as root so that you don't kill them accidentally! < 1248542276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: er it's 2341 < 1248542277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1248542278 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1248542295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 5 < 1248542301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: transposition, not rotation, methinkg < 1248542302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinks < 1248542308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248542316 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears. < 1248542319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it were more complex, 12324, then 23435, then 34546, then 23435, then 45657 < 1248542330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the first note of each of the instances itself plays out the motif < 1248542331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://codu.org/music/auto/Onerously%20Uptight%20Toccata%20Piano%20Arr.pdf < 1248542336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1...2...3...2...4 < 1248542344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that's 10? < 1248542367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its a progression of instances of the motif < 1248542375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the progression itself plays the motif < 1248542381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/auto/Onerously%20Uptight%20Toccata.{mid,mp3,ogg} since that one isn't on the Algorhythms site. < 1248542386 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it plays a permutation of the motif < 1248542389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i can make out the melody now < 1248542390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1248542392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: he means op.10 < 1248542393 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disappears again. < 1248542393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1248542418 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does that make sense? < 1248542426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't pay attention < 1248542430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1248542437 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-124-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248542457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still haven't told me where note 5 comes from < 1248542464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 → 2345; what's 5 < 1248542472 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said! :| < 1248542475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1248542478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not < 1248542479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have your motif < 1248542479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what ehird said, when you come back. < 1248542486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the motif < 1248542487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234?\ < 1248542490 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M = 12324, lets say < 1248542493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1248542507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M[i] is the i'th note of the motif < 1248542517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indexing at 0 < 1248542519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so M[2] = 3, < 1248542523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth < 1248542544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so not transposition < 1248542551 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it IS transposition < 1248542554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just complicated < 1248542570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we consider the motif an infinite repetition of the same thing < 1248542572 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the i'th copy of the motif is transposed by M[i] < 1248542583 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 0th copy of the motif is 12324, say < 1248542596 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its not transposed at all < 1248542607 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 1th copy is 23435 < 1248542634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're talking chromatic transpositions? i don't think those were allowed quite that directly when bach composed < 1248542656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only as structure, atonality is a newer concept < 1248542684 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248542699 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1248542701 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, storm, power outages, you know. < 1248542707 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, so the first copy is 23435 < 1248542719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:23 oklopol: and we're talking chromatic transpositions? i don't think those were allowed quite that directly when bach composed < 1248542720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24 oklopol: only as structure, atonality is a newer concept < 1248542730 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the second note of the motif is 2. so you start the motif at 2, but follow the same progressions < 1248542745 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the motive is transposed up one note < 1248542756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: What, exactly, does your libc consist of? < 1248542760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in winelf) < 1248542765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: *motif, not motive < 1248542767 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the third copy starts at the third note of the motif < 1248542769 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth < 1248542769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: the thing starting from 6:34 has the "*.***.*.*.*.*." rhythm in the beginning, i like it. < 1248542771 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brbrbrbrb < 1248542866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: transposed withing used non-chromatic scale that is? < 1248542960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if the motif is say 02357230, would its transposition one up be 13468341 or 23578352 < 1248542973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any way to try out compiz on the live cd? < 1248542981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: go into appearances preferences < 1248542982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual effects < 1248542983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and choose Normal < 1248542991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra makes resizing warble and shit; just looks terrible) < 1248542992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is at that already < 1248542994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a chromatic transposition means you need to make sure every note happens to drop on the same scale < 1248542997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're using compiz < 1248543002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming we're using some western scale underneath < 1248543010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e.g. minimizing/maximizing/window shadows < 1248543014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I want to see rotating 3D cube desktop < 1248543020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or isn't that compiz? < 1248543028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is, but now i want to stab yo. < 1248543029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you. < 1248543035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you who always hates bling :) < 1248543046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think you need to install a plugin and shit < 1248543048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I do. But I want to see how bad it looks < 1248543055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really worth it < 1248543070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , intrigued, wgets Cygwin to play with < 1248543090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: run cygwin under wine < 1248543093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run wine under cygwin < 1248543096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat until you die < 1248543098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Cygwin source code. < 1248543101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hahah. < 1248543112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of alcohol poisoning?) < 1248543145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol poisoning, n. Using so many Windows programs under WINE that you have all the disadvantages of a Windows desktop, but on Linux. < 1248543151 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1248543159 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1248543194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION intends to get CygwinELF. < 1248543212 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i have no idea precisely how the scales work < 1248543217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: anyway, whether glass is crap or not, it's definitely pretty much the opposite of what i enjoy playing. < 1248543227 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok. < 1248543229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: cygwin isn't like < 1248543230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link compatible < 1248543236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll still have to recompile < 1248543246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also linux syscalls < 1248543252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm getting the source tarball. < 1248543255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: basically you have the octave split in 12 equal steps, and there are certain subsets of those that are called scales < 1248543257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the prorgams < 1248543258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs < 1248543261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cygwin itself < 1248543266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bach's day, you always stayed withing the scale afaik < 1248543266 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to try and generate transpose canons using a CFG < 1248543273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like, CygwinELF would be, like, WinELF'd Cygwin. < 1248543273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atonality means using all 12 < 1248543278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly < 1248543281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think cygwin might do things like mess around with internal PE stuff < 1248543284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might not work < 1248543290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Windows still uses PE, right?) < 1248543295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Thus why I'm getting the source tarball to look at. < 1248543300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1248543300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it does still use PE. < 1248543301 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one of bach's canons never ends, technically < 1248543306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% expanderated! < 1248543341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updating! < 1248543342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1248543346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's updating while installing. < 1248543348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool. < 1248543350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less rebootifying. < 1248543355 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole canon is a motif that ends on the same note it began, but one octave higher < 1248543359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: major is 024579(11)(12), minor is 02357(8|9)(10|11)(12), | because there are multiple kinds of minors. < 1248543368 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and traditionally its looped, getting higher and higher and higher < 1248543371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try that out on the chromatic scale starting from any note < 1248543372 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you give up < 1248543375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should recognize them < 1248543378 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-127-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248543403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: sounds like fun. < 1248543407 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1248543419 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out bach's Musical Offering, and Well Tempered Clavier < 1248543426 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1248543437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setup is updating registry settings < 1248543438 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and then there are versions of the motif where extra notes are added < 1248543439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…IN BED < 1248543441 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some notes are removed < 1248543456 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically any way you can alter the motif < 1248543546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like all cygwin process spawning goes through the spawn function. < 1248543576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Tp_smapi is the key < 1248543588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're smapi. < 1248543611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1248543628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, though very complex, doesn't seem to be doing anything really funky with the executable. < 1248543640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a lot of Windows API junk. < 1248543702 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1248543715 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-127-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248543974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: So, all Cygwin program execution eventually goes through spawn_guts. < 1248543988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: This is where the processes are actually created and loaded. < 1248544071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In principle, you could just add another code path that loads ELF executables via elfloader rather than the Win32 process loader. < 1248544087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be tricky but entirely feasible. < 1248544137 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could write a transpose canon generator < 1248544144 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works using a CFG, essentially < 1248544146 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1248544157 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something roughly like a CFG < 1248544204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. M = 1 2 3 2 4 | 1*M 2*M 3*M 2*M 4*M < 1248544258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically "1 2 3 2 4" * 12^n :P < 1248544263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1248544268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you meant < 1248544279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you dont have to go the same depth for each M on the right hand side < 1248544284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly, that was actually something you didn't answer < 1248544287 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the first one is just 1 2 3 2 4 < 1248544292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1248544306 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the second is 1 2 3 2 4 2 3 4 3 5 3 4 5 4 6 2 3 4 3 5 4 5 6 5 7 < 1248544318 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its M^2, lets call it < 1248544325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe the third is M^3 < 1248544327 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fourth is M^2 < 1248544331 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fifth is M^4 < 1248544338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the depth ITSELF is the motif! < 1248544409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getting the disk protection to work was easier in arch once I knew where to look. While it is known broken in ubuntu < 1248544412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(atm) < 1248544423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that I don't care how much you hate Ubuntu, right? < 1248544430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ubuntu is nice < 1248544432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1248544435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh huh. < 1248544454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but it also has downsides. Like arch does too < 1248544466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm atm trying to figure out if it is easier to fix the issues in arch now or not < 1248544485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the issue with network in ubuntu too I don't think I would gain much < 1248544491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1248544525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long-term you would; i.e. integrated desktop environment. < 1248544552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes maybe < 1248544561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall consider this more. < 1248544564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, "ls" works in PowerShell. Neat. < 1248544572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, old < 1248544600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 is doubleplusgood so far. < 1248544678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: true, torley sucks at structure < 1248544682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, if you want good fonts, go into Appearance settings, Fonts, Advanced, RGB, Slight, and DPI = 129 dpi < 1248544684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then close it < 1248544729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure something like a 1212343 would fool you into thinking it's a rich structure (one of the basic western song structures) < 1248544764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: might take a minute or two to get used to but i'm sure you'll see the light. < 1248544772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe! < 1248544802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at hdaps... not making sense < 1248544813 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a way to output sound from ruby :| < 1248544821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: bloopsaphone, bitch! < 1248544823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's why. < 1248544825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = verse, 2 = some kinda build-up, 3 = "chorus", 4 = something interesting and surprising < 1248544833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to throw numbers into a midi thing < 1248544833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7's taskbar > OS X Dock < 1248544833 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the idea here < 1248544840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only this thing were built on top of posix < 1248544846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1248544847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again X under ubuntu guessed on 128 dpi < 1248544850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very close < 1248544855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1248544858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but 129 is slightly better :P < 1248544865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm trying to make sense of hdaps < 1248544871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why 129 < 1248544876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 168.6 < 1248544878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1248544881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128.6 < 1248544889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whence 128.6 < 1248544890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you entered it with the dot into the font panel it'd round up anyway < 1248544893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ppi calculator < 1248544912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which gets all the other displays I tested in it right, so) < 1248544945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also torley doesn't get the local structures at all correct, all he does is know a few chord progressions and a few trivial arpeggios < 1248544958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a trivial arpeggio oklopol < 1248544959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1248544971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an 87 < 1248544984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glass' progressions don't seem to be that basic < 1248544987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: sheesh, even windows defaults to a higher dpi than your display! < 1248544991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also X11, which is 80sware < 1248544992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dunno, i'm more of a melody dude < 1248544998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no YOU < 1248544999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoppe -> < 1248545010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches his VM window spastically resize more than once a second < 1248545011 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1248545016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those drivers were bad. < 1248545025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using 96 DPI < 1248545029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there we go. < 1248545033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the default. < 1248545035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1248545063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, the drivers appear to work now < 1248545068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 7 startup sound is nice < 1248545070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not obnoxious < 1248545090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns on airy aero < 1248545101 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1248545132 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird what < 1248545141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your MOM < 1248545148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snappe < 1248545150 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats bloopsaphone < 1248545161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google it bitch < 1248545168 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im on the github now < 1248545219 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. ill have to figure out how to calculate notes from numbers D: < 1248545460 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248545460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248545479 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1248545550 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/558757 play this < 1248545783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1248545804 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1248545820 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the 12324 recursively generated to a depth determined by the motif itself < 1248545823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers are notes on what scale? < 1248545833 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any scale of your choosing < 1248545942 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 'fraid not ... I could whip one up if desired ... I compose on the piano, then hypothetically write the score, but by the time I'm partway through writing it I hate what I've written to much and abandon the notion. < 1248545955 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too much < 1248545987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1248546038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i can in fact hear what you're doing there, i remembered incorrectly dat. not that i wouldn't like seeing the score anyway < 1248546116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like windows 7 < 1248546150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: sounds pretty crappy on a minor scale :P < 1248546158 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248546165 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motif is shit, so.. < 1248546167 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1248546258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if you listen to it as a 5/4 melody, you'll hear... well, how it was generated < 1248546289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a 4/4 melody, it does do interesting stuff, but only until the progression in 5/4 changes differently than a 4/4 should've. < 1248546344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done some experimental work on playing a 15 note melody multiple times while leftie plays 4/4 < 1248546363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: please to record < 1248546364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that this transposes the whole thing < 1248546364 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1248546376 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248546376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not transposes, but it makes it fit the chord progression < 1248546377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1248546390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can record it the same way i recorded the last, only now i have my clothes on. < 1248546399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also need to go to the shoppe first < 1248546439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.takimag.com/article/is_obamania_over/ ;; obama strongly supports rainbows; pedobear < 1248546753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why my Windows 7 VM is faster than the host at doing things. < 1248547286 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.takimag.com/images/gallery/BHORainbowBear2_med.jpg This is almost too hilarious for words :P < 1248547519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: < 1248547559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: See above, where I linked it :P < 1248547563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how it got there < 1248547570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The journalist is a boring old... curmudgeon from the looks of it. < 1248547578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hax0red? Seriously didn't know? < 1248547581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the coolest old person ever? < 1248547581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO KNOWS < 1248547587 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Idonno, it's just too hilarious for words :P < 1248547590 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248547602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obama's platform consisted of hope, change, rainbows and child rape. < 1248547605 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248547620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you missed the child rape < 1248547626 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so < 1248547635 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki.Picture_by_Drawing_Machine_2.jpg < 1248547637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46 augur has left IRC (Remote closed the connection) < 1248547637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((CHILD RAPE)) < 1248547640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46 augur has joined (n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) < 1248547662 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a giant bucket. < 1248547667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that image looks distinctly non-free. < 1248547694 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distinctly non-free? < 1248547702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1248547703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This work of art is distributed under the Free Art license. You are free to redistribute it and/or modify it according to terms of this license. ArtLibre.org < 1248547706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just read < 1248547707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All images belong to Desmond Paul Henry's estate of which I, Elaine O'Hanrahan, am an executrice. < 1248547717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((executrice is an obnoxious word)) < 1248547729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorr < 1248547733 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define executrice < 1248547734 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1248547736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at generative music theory? < 1248547741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope 8-D < 1248547747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should < 1248547752 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a PL researcher :P < 1248547754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres been a fair amount of research into it < 1248547756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats ok < 1248547763 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of GM theory is just formal language theory < 1248547765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with musical notes. < 1248547768 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of symbols. < 1248547771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE MOGULS THAT FLY / < 1248547776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lerdahl, F. and R. Jackendoff. 1982. A generative theory of tonal music. Cambridge, Mass: MIT Press. < 1248547777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auauauauauuum < 1248547782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE MOGULS THAT DIE / < 1248547783 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Lerdal and Jackendoff are linguists < 1248547784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auauauauauaum < 1248547786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a mogul. < 1248547800 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nomadic mogul? < 1248547802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned that I'm basically on crack? < 1248547805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you a mugal? < 1248547812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we couldve guessed < 1248547822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have sexed < 1248547827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THE FLOR EVAPORATED < 1248547829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sexes < 1248547841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARP TO 11 < 1248547845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ un warp < 1248547855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warp 11?! < 1248547862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locale and the debts. < 1248547864 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats faster than the fastest warp factor! < 1248547864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locale and the debts. < 1248547869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debts and the locale. < 1248547873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locale debts are in the debt locale < 1248547875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: NO < 1248547877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS ONE FASTER < 1248547884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEACUSE OF NIGEL UFCKING TUFNEL, SPACE PIRATE < 1248547889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GASP < 1248547911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gigapedia.com/items/199498/composing-music-with-computers--music-technology- < 1248547912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baited breath??? MORE LIKE bAIT YOUR DEATH < 1248547915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE EXTREME WITH EXTREMENESS < 1248547919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXTREME 100% EXTREME < 1248547921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-TREAM < 1248547923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX-STREAM < 1248547945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used that pun the other day :o < 1248547952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them's the rules by which THEM'S THE DROOLS < 1248547957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY DROOLS I MEAN DROOLERS < 1248547962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NOT DE RULERS < 1248547963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS THE RULERS < 1248548038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/07/16/downloading-another-browser-in-e-without-a-browser-in-3-steps/ ← windows 7 doesn't actually lack ie < 1248548039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just iexplore.exe < 1248548045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in EU) < 1248548240 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1248548325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1248548330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ø < 1248548346 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1248548355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :løl < 1248548488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248548542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :movie < 1248548710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that new language on the wiki just rolls off the tongue, practically < 1248548868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not immensely convinced of its esotericity < 1248548881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor i < 1248548925 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with a name like that, it has to be! < 1248548931 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who would use such a thing < 1248548964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1248549109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would make a comment on the talk page, but the evil body snatching gnomes inside my body appear to veto it. < 1248549114 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poochiewuddledumpling-Boobledarling looks ... well, entirely based on assembly ... < 1248549115 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@i032136.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1248549122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to the point that it's just a form of assembly. < 1248549132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT ASSEMBLY IS HARD HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR < 1248549147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to move the computer to record, but i have a snippet now < 1248549158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot there was no battery in < 1248549187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the piece is so slow it'sh < 1248549192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hard to play under panic < 1248549205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cams do to me < 1248549339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err he isn't here huh < 1248549340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1248549356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who isn't here? < 1248549365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1248549387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed he disappeared 15 minutes ago < 1248549434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he read logs < 1248549456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heckifiknow < 1248549461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess i can paste this one if pasted the last one < 1248549465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/pianovids/bah.wmv < 1248549474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's significantly worse played < 1248549478 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248549491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shows the idea < 1248549491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/pianovids/bah.wmv < 1248549554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: left hand is completely out of sync, i'm still getting used to recording myself; but right hand melody plays the same thing three times, but it lasts for 15 ticks, so it mixes interestingly with leftie < 1248549592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hands tend to freeze up when i know i'm being watched < 1248549596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why i'm not a surgeon < 1248549647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that song is longer, but most of it isn't interesting in any mathematical sense < 1248549647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol what is this < 1248549649 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248549653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you ask me to record < 1248549656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 15 thing < 1248549661 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1248549675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what 15 thing < 1248549722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1248549722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12324 < 1248549727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1248549739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25 oklopol: i've done some experimental work on playing a 15 note melody multiple times while leftie plays 4/4 < 1248549739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26 augur: oklopol: please to record < 1248549740 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: right but thats that got to do with the video? XP < 1248549747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248549757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was in a hurry to go to the shop, must have misinterpreted that < 1248549777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my timestamps suck < 1248549779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: pfft, you turned off the camera without showing heavily-compressed, darkened chest < 1248549783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a waste of seconds! < 1248549786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1248549793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a shirt on < 1248549794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: watching not recommended < 1248549805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah why'd you just have to give us your penis < 1248549811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean sheesh some of us prefer the other parts too < 1248549818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at this point, augur downloads 15 copies) < 1248549823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to 15 drives in 15 countries) < 1248549852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you can play the 12324 thing on some midi prog < 1248549885 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248549999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The default setting for User Account Control in Windows 7 has been criticized for allowing untrusted software to be launched with elevated privileges by exploiting a trusted application.[38] Microsoft's Windows kernel engineer Mark Russinovich acknowledged the problem, but noted that there are other vulnerabilities that do not rely on the new setting.[39]" < 1248550001 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1248550004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows: It's okay, it's broken in other ways too. < 1248550010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[The default setting for User Account Control in Windows 7 has been criticized for allowing untrusted software to be launched with elevated privileges by exploiting a trusted application.[38] Microsoft's Windows kernel engineer Mark Russinovich acknowledged the problem, but noted that there are other vulnerabilities that do not rely on the new setting.[39]]] < 1248550030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link to that "ubuntu on encrypted" thingy? < 1248550043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google.com; it involves having a running ubuntu system though < 1248550051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to do it with the regular installer < 1248550055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ugh < 1248550059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that the now-fixed bug where you didn't need a UAC prompt to turn UAC prompts off? < 1248550068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a different one? < 1248550087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno; the funny bit is the reaction < 1248550150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just got spam in Cyrillic < 1248550159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first Cyrillic spam I've seen, I'm guessing Russian < 1248550162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to translate it < 1248550175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1248550183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1248550242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how accurately you could regex to match oklo nicks, but exclude non-oklo nicks < 1248550261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur did something like that once < 1248550262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklo.* < 1248550272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, because it doesn't always have an l < 1248550277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and certain letters never seem to be used < 1248550278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1248550279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a, for instance < 1248550282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 btw < 1248550286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always oklo something < 1248550288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I remember okofok in here a while back < 1248550297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was oklofok < 1248550302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: we've had both < 1248550308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: confirm/deny < 1248550321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm oklofok is one of my usual nicks. < 1248550335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okofok < 1248550337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the l < 1248550341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might even be my second most used. < 1248550342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248550342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 thinks you've been it < 1248550359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes okofok is possible, but not what i'd usually go for < 1248550365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey also < 1248550372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okl?o.* < 1248550373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1248550387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also had an okopol here ages ago, but it turned out it was because oerjan had stolen the l < 1248550393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, okopol lost the l, and oerjan found it < 1248550410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/pianovids/bah.wmv maybe you're interested, the right hand melody plays a 15 note melody on top of 4/4 on the leftie, while trying to fit the chord progression as it becomes offset < 1248550416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i'm a bad person for liking windows 7 < 1248550428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, you aren't < 1248550430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recorded for augur, but misunderstood, he actually wanted me to record some random crap < 1248550443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Vista came out, I was pretty sure it was the best version of Windows ever < 1248550448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it better if i dislike the internals but think the UI is great? < 1248550451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause that's my position < 1248550458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but they mostly stole the UI from Mac OS X < 1248550465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's fine, really < 1248550466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's *better* in quite a few ways < 1248550467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you accusing me of stealing? That's outrageous! Besides, you cannot prove it, I destroyed all the evidence. < 1248550477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the new task bar is better than the dock < 1248550487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: logs are foreverly. < 1248550490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't centered by default, so applications stay in the same place < 1248550493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of jumping around all the time < 1248550502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has an expose-like but more localised and less obnoxious to switch windows in apps < 1248550506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's what we want you to think < 1248550506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just focusing all of 'em like os x < 1248550524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they AREN'T?=EROg? < 1248550525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that gets me about the Win7 taskbar is it looks really useful for people who don't run too many differnet applications and easily forget what they have running < 1248550539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but considerably worse for people who run loads of different applications and know what they're running at any given time < 1248550544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck no < 1248550551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any windows taskbar is totally unusable with how much stuff i have open < 1248550556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1248550562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dock bounces about too much and doesn't provide an easy way to switch windows < 1248550564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what you use multiple desktops for? < 1248550570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows 7 "doskbar" is great < 1248550574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's arbitrary segmentation < 1248550583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i have a modal window organization format? < 1248550584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly, but that's a good thing < 1248550587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1248550588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can segment things arbitrarily < 1248550596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary segmentation doesn't work < 1248550599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to remember it < 1248550602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's arbitrary < 1248550607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: generally speaking there's an obvious way to segment in any given situation < 1248550611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not < 1248550616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if there was, it's extra cognitive load < 1248550619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking my brain remembers the segmentation for me. < 1248550619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is universally Bad < 1248550626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how arbitrary < 1248550630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: please do not use strange spelling with ? in it, i get unicode paranoia < 1248550635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as, if cognitive load were OK, we'd just not bother with usability < 1248550639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, for instance, generally I'll have standard Internet stuff (RSS feed reader, IRC, web browser, email) in one desktop < 1248550652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i multitask < 1248550653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend segmented his hard drive in folders named A-Z, and puts stuff under a completely random letter < 1248550654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever programming I'm working on (mostly terminals and HTML renderers for documentation) in another < 1248550656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a nice big screen < 1248550660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i like floating windows < 1248550665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual desktops destroy all that < 1248550675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do virtual desktops destroy floating windows? < 1248550678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're unneeded, anyway; the win7 dock/taskbar handles the usecase just fine < 1248550680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, my screen's rather smaller than yours < 1248550688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because floating windows means -all- windows floating < 1248550688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll normally float a game to the right of TAEB < 1248550691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minus ones you've explicitly hidden < 1248550694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: err, no? < 1248550696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248550697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1248550703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have several maximised windows behind a couple of floating ones < 1248550711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're not using floating windows < 1248550718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can code imperative programs in haskell, too < 1248550721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean haskell's imperative < 1248550729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using floating in the sense of not maximised or pinned < 1248550735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IIRC is the usual computer meaning < 1248550735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not. < 1248550737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean something else? < 1248550744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using it in the sense of windows being behind other windows. < 1248550750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from ones you've EXPLICITLY hidden < 1248550753 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248550754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual desktops hide all your current windows < 1248550759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather use a tiling wm < 1248550761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they're consistent < 1248550762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just the ones on a different desktop < 1248550774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IMO, user-configurable inconsistency is good < 1248550775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: circular reasoning < 1248550779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would prefer just having them float around the room so i could physically fetch them, and throw them in the corner when i don't need them. < 1248550792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't forget a physical location < 1248550793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: for some reason you just reminded me of Project Natal < 1248550813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what that is < 1248550827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, i coded haskell last night, and i loved it. < 1248550828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Virtual desktops are a good way to organise windows." "No, virtual desktops hide windows that you don't explicitly." "That's because they're on another virtual desktop." < 1248550835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Microsoft attempting to make a control system that's like the Wii remote but more so < 1248550837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cirhurhurcular reasoning < 1248550844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean actually coded, used classes and monads and everything. < 1248550849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more, self-consistent reasoning < 1248550850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wowzers < 1248550861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're saying that virtual desktops hiding windows is good because that's how virtual desktops work < 1248550867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is NOT a valid defense of virtual desktops < 1248550875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's incredibly hard, my mouse keeps moving towards to python icon all the time :P < 1248550876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a defence if you already accept that virtual desktops are good < 1248550878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I'm saying that virtual desktops are good because they let me hide windows < 1248550885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that IMO, hiding windows is useful < 1248550886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if you like them!! < 1248550898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, being able to hide windows > not being able < 1248550898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they absolutely suck and I hate them, so I reject you saying "isn't that what virtual desktops are for?" < 1248550907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the not being able comes with other advantages < 1248550938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that. does. not. solve. the. problem. of. organising. windows. for. someone. who. hates. virtual. desktops. < 1248550941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on your setup, can you check email, and then go back to a full-screen terminal with a game in front of it? < 1248550966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sort of thing I typically do, I'm wondering if that isn't typical for you, or if you have a different way to do it < 1248550977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want a defence of virtual desktops! < 1248550983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something that works if you don't like virtual desktops. < 1248550986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1248550998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your issue is "I don't like virtual desktops; can you pick something else with all the same advantages?" < 1248551001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are virtual desktops? are they exactly what they sound like? :P < 1248551004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1248551011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's just you have more than one desktop < 1248551012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some kinda way to change to another vd < 1248551016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can move programs between them < 1248551019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, window < 1248551020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds stupid < 1248551021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windows < 1248551025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu did that in our school < 1248551029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:42 ais523: ehird: on your setup, can you check email, and then go back to a full-screen terminal with a game in front of it? ← yes, using a magical thing called a window switcher. < 1248551033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard of them? < 1248551034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Ubuntu does that by default everywhere < 1248551037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were invented in 1984. < 1248551041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes I have < 1248551051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, because that has nothing to do with vds < 1248551054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you keep the email program minimized/hidden when you don't want it in front of your games? < 1248551066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, I don't see how you can easily send it to behind /both/ windows < 1248551076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248551080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a question i can parse < 1248551089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, the point is that using a typical window switcher < 1248551090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're asking "How do I do without virtual desktops?" < 1248551094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "You don't." < 1248551105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just raises the window you aim for < 1248551109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not another window at the same time < 1248551116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1248551119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i raise the window i wan < 1248551119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1248551124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what if you want more than one? < 1248551127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to me all the time < 1248551132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all the time, but often < 1248551134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i focus one window then the other < 1248551137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrange them as I see ift < 1248551138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fit < 1248551140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1248551142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically he wants the ability to make sets of windows switch as a group. < 1248551145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one totally overlaps the other, buy a new monitor that's big enough < 1248551156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IOW your setup is like mine, just more hard word < 1248551158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hard work < 1248551162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, no < 1248551166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my setup is completely effortless < 1248551174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours has the (even if minor) cognitive load of organising windows in virtual desktops < 1248551186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't care if it seems natural; you still think about it for a split second whether you want to or not) < 1248551195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine has less cognitive load, therefore mine — for me — is a superior interface < 1248551198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yours has the work of refocusing windows /every single time/ you switch < 1248551201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally hate the fact i need to organize the windows myself < 1248551203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wouldn't that require using the mouse? < 1248551221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I use the mouse to do mouse-suited tasks, like EVERY STUDY EVER CONDUCTED ON THEM show is more efficient. < 1248551225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just wanna say "i wanna irc, watch vlc and play solitaire, while having my text editor close by" < 1248551226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it feels slower because of inherent cognitive biases. < 1248551229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has also been researched. < 1248551234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not slower. < 1248551242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I find the keyboard is more efficient when you don't have a mouse attached < 1248551249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know it'd do it; of course i guess that is possible even in win 3.11, i just don't know what button to press :P < 1248551255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the one who failed to attach a mouse. < 1248551257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can press control-alt-right faster than I can move my hand to the mouse < 1248551262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like complaining that your computer isn't usable if you don't attach a display. < 1248551270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you try using a mouse in bed some time < 1248551280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have you heard of these thing called laptops? < 1248551285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1248551286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, this is a laptop < 1248551295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balancing a laptop on my duvet while lying in bed = not hard < 1248551295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's the only laptop ever without a pointing device. < 1248551303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is; the touchpad here has never worked < 1248551306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm always in my bed, and i use a mouse all the time < 1248551311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an external mouse in order to get mice to work < 1248551316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248551317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So you want user interfaces to be designed around your computer being broken? < 1248551320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ummmmmmmmmm, argument DISMISSEd. < 1248551322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DISMISSED < 1248551323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, that's a lie, it worked for about 10 seconds, and has never worked since) < 1248551333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I want user interfaces that can cope with unusual modes of working < 1248551360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would you have complained that it's hard to balance an LCD on your lap if the built-in one was broken? < 1248551369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want my experience to be completely incapacitated if the keyboard or mouse or screen stops working < 1248551372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and proposed that all UIs should work with just speakers? < 1248551387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a hardware bug here; if you close the laptop lid, the screen goes off, and it doesn't turn back on again until it's rebooted after that < 1248551430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there oses for blind people? < 1248551431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I'm rather pleased that it's possible to REISUB /in the middle of a distro upgrade/ and have the computer still working when I turn it back on again < 1248551437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there are screenreaders < 1248551453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that doesn't work < 1248551454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :available for most major OSes < 1248551458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes they do work < 1248551462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've talked to blind people using them before < 1248551462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think all major OSes bundle one, although some are better than others < 1248551464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind PROGRAMMERS < 1248551479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think for programming they used emacsspeak) < 1248551482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more impressive than that; apparently there are people who play NetHack through a screen reader < 1248551490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emacspeak < 1248551497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after setting all the characters to alphanumeric ones to make them easier to screenread < 1248551500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this guy was pretty impressive; I couldn't tell he was blind at all until he mentioned it < 1248551505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick typing etc < 1248551539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think typing would be the part of using a computer least hampered by being blind < 1248551548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even sighted people generally don't look at the keyboard when typing < 1248551559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it meant they could listen to what people were saying quickly < 1248551561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a high-traffic irc channel < 1248551564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember the relevant lines < 1248551566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then reply quickly < 1248551570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while others were still talking < 1248551570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1248551572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1248551578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that is impressive; but it's the remembering context that's impressive, not the typing fast < 1248551585 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't do that and i'm not even blind < 1248551592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can tell they reacted quickly due to typing fast < 1248551605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can, but i don't enjoy it :P < 1248551605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing fast = sending lines fast < 1248551623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8pIWlr3yoE torley is a silly man < 1248551643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you'd think they don't get the same gui experience with a screenreader < 1248551644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that app is cool looking < 1248551654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I distinguish throughput from latency < 1248551655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i'm assuming blind people don't use mouses? < 1248551664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah it's mostly modal < 1248551664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, 'typing fast' = high throughput, but mentions nothing about latency < 1248551677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep, they navigate through everything the same way tab navigates through a dialog box < 1248551688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1248551695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda outdated < 1248551701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, they normally use caps lock as an extra modifier key to control the screenreader < 1248551702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do any better < 1248551703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio is linear < 1248551709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody uses it for anything else... < 1248551715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah so that's why they're all so calm and collected < 1248551717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I DO SO FUCK YOU < 1248551722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio isn't linear < 1248551724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR SIGHT < 1248551730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: speech is < 1248551733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have surround, and have windows float around. < 1248551739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1248551739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1248551749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's a great bash.org quote about that, but it's probably not worth linking to it because you've probably seen it already < 1248551751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might look kinda ridiculous < 1248551776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know webcam, point to windows you want to see, they could make like a buzzing noise < 1248551781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be an asymptotically better gui for the blind! :D < 1248551796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I PUT ON MY RObe and wzYEAH BUTrd hTHEt FUNCTOR IS A MONAD When tI CAST LVL 3 EROTICISM" < 1248551803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where asymptotical means not actually, but in some very crooked theory < 1248551804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ #haskell + bloodninja surround windows < 1248551815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm... sort of like a VR helmet, but with sound rather than light? < 1248551830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'd prefer that over the one i have now < 1248551836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what quote was it btw < 1248551836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that some people use VR helmets to get effectively infinitely large desktops < 1248551838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1248551850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: finding it now < 1248551873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think that you could sort of do that visually with an array of monitors < 1248551875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a zoom UI < 1248551880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bash.org/?835030 < 1248551883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying while blind people might get used to screenreaders, an ideal os for the blind would probably not just be that < 1248551886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it spin around and zoom in and out and stuff < 1248551894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right, old :P < 1248551904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I know < 1248551910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said you'd probably seen it already < 1248551933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if microsoft really can't afford to ship helvetica with Windows (even though apple can) or if they just keep arial through sheer stubbornness < 1248551940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even their advertisements use Helvetica < 1248551944 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248551951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think they keep Arial because of the number of people who would demand Arial back if they removed it < 1248551965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the default font back in the days of Windows 3.1, I think because it was first in alphabetical order < 1248551976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people ended up demanding Arial for years afterwards, probably still are < 1248551983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WTF You fucked up arial in the new release, frist it's called 'hevletica' and second the R used to slant down but now it has a weird curve WINDOWS 8 IS USELESS" < 1248552005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just like to remove all fonts except courier new from my comp < 1248552011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs oklopol < 1248552018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that Arial is one of the few Microsoft fonts that they released for Linux < 1248552018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never say that again. :| < 1248552029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1248552030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Windows will break if you remove MS Sans Serif, IIRC < 1248552031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, very evil those microsoft people < 1248552035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Typography, you bitch. < 1248552039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proportional fonts FTW. < 1248552046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they wanted Arial to become a standard font on the Internet < 1248552059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proportional fonts are ugly < 1248552061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses FreeMono for some things, like source code listings in reports < 1248552072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks identical to Courier New, AFAICT < 1248552077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a subtle difference somewhere < 1248552082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either I or my screen aren't good enough to notice it < 1248552083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i'd prefer just writing all caps < 1248552091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people dislike that too < 1248552097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, people are idiots < 1248552104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like an old-fashioned BBC Micror? < 1248552106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Micro? < 1248552115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was amusing; they could do lowercase, but people hardly ever used it < 1248552120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you < 1248552126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you had to turn capslock off to type in lowercase < 1248552137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the commands were only recognised in uppercase < 1248552154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(holding shift when capslock is on = capital letter on a BBC Micro, for some reason) < 1248552163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in OS X < 1248552172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same everywhere < 1248552172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE PEOPLE INSTINCTIVELY ADD CAPITALS WHEN THEY'RE TYPING, NO MATTER WHAT. < 1248552175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not in windows < 1248552180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the above sentence would start "bECAUSE". < 1248552185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right < 1248552194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really ever use caps < 1248552212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you should implement your oklOS because i'm way too lazy to ever implement my idea < 1248552218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas you are too much of an academic, says I! < 1248552220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iT SEEMS THAT cAPS lOCK AND sHIFT GIVES A LOWERCASE LETTER ON LINUX TOO < 1248552224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably X < 1248552226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to make something better than electricity first < 1248552230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably console too < 1248552234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "standard" < 1248552235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1248552245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electricity is okay < 1248552250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is console input anything to do with the OS? or is it all handled by the BIOS? < 1248552255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno < 1248552257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well < 1248552258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's OS < 1248552262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i started writing an OS < 1248552264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had to write keyboard code < 1248552269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got keycodes in < 1248552274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mapped them to chars < 1248552280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thus why linux 1 only did swedish) < 1248552282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i like to imagine that you'd name all your major discoveries as oklo-something < 1248552284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotricity < 1248552296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklochippity (your version of silicon) < 1248552306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1248552307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocessity (cpu) < 1248552316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklOSity (duh) < 1248552322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo...irc...ity < 1248552343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually name things i do with somekinda pun < 1248552349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i hate puns < 1248552383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be offended < 1248552443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were so many fruit flies near the micro i almost tripped because of teh startle < 1248552451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they attacked me < 1248552478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the micro? < 1248552481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wave < 1248552483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry < 1248552485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1248552528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write my os maybe < 1248552532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should I write my OS? < 1248552545 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248552545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only once you have a good idea of how you want it to work < 1248552553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well. < 1248552558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the answer) < 1248552570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in more detail than that < 1248552591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what things that really need to be built into the OS from the bottom up will you need to build into it from the bottom up? < 1248552615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not really an "os" in my model tbh < 1248552618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an environment < 1248552622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's built in, nothing's built in < 1248552721 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248552794 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1248552811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wait, you also have flies near the microwave today? they must be up to something... < 1248552891 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want to be cooked. < 1248552893 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nom nom nom. < 1248552896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. i'm going to vacuum them after a few episodes. < 1248552900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu it is... < 1248552901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just one here, though a bigger one) < 1248552902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1248552909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1248552910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1248552911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1248552912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1248552926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: didya figure out how to crypt < 1248552930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1248552930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you'd need quite a lot of them to make a pie. < 1248552941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone might steal your cfunge repo :( < 1248552954 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248552977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you need about 50 of them to make a fly. < 1248552982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very funny. Anyway. How pointless would it be to ask in #ubuntu about this? < 1248552995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incredibly < 1248552997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is useless < 1248553001 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends if your goal is information or amusement < 1248553012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mycroftiv < 1248553016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen you here before etc etc < 1248553017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I want to know how to install on encrypted / under ubuntu basically < 1248553018 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1248553018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like myndzi though :P < 1248553031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi mycroftiv! < 1248553039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is informative sometimes < 1248553041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI EVERYONE < 1248553044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah… longtime no see… mycroftiv? :P < 1248553046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i joined this channel because i love Plan 9 from bell labs, i use ubuntu but i dont do anything fancy with it other than host plan9 stuff < 1248553047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1248553050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi mycroftiv, everyone else seems to be saying hi soon so I may as well too < 1248553052 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet everyone! < 1248553053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not myndzi < 1248553063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugu < 1248553065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu* < 1248553070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i wonder what connected you from plan 9 to here, whatever it is it's astonishingly accurate :D < 1248553075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is some talk about "Ubuntu alternate installation CD" not sure what that is < 1248553080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not worth it < 1248553084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the text-based installer with more options < 1248553085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know if they do anything to it any more < 1248553089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know if it has the option you want < 1248553095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plus, it'd be just as much as a pain as w/ the graphical < 1248553098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's mostly out of the installer < 1248553104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the encrypted volume yourself then selecting it, AnMaster < 1248553107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Plan 9 is discussed here every now and then < 1248553114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just follow some tutorial to make an encrypted volume < 1248553116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount it < 1248553116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure if the initramfs will handle it < 1248553118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love the way that it named an entirely unrelated program to the editor 'vi' < 1248553119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choose it in the ubuntu installer < 1248553120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the issue < 1248553122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can rebuild it afterwards < 1248553129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to change /etc/fstab too in the root < 1248553132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd get it installed at least < 1248553142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it has an emacs man page too! < 1248553150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is it for emacs? or for something else/ < 1248553156 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like plan9 and anything to make computing and the internet a weirder and wilder place, if there was a movement for Digital Surrealism, id join it < 1248553163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1248553172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9_2nd_ed/1/emacs < 1248553177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: /definitely/ sounds like you're in the right channel < 1248553183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why the topic? < 1248553188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BUGS: Yes." < 1248553193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a polish guy came in with no idea who we were < 1248553196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i talked via google translate < 1248553204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also then we did translation stuff w/ egobot < 1248553221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great man page, I can't even tell if it's the same emacs or not < 1248553229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? "editor macros" < 1248553230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOURCE: MIT < 1248553234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was a macroset for acme, or something < 1248553234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also vi < 1248553240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also sam < 1248553242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another editor) < 1248553250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the actual plan 9 programs tend to be well-documented… :P < 1248553253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's obviously an editor, or something for an editor < 1248553261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even think /bin/emacs exists on plan 9 < 1248553263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a phantom man page < 1248553264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given the way plan9 works, I'm wondering if it's the same one < 1248553274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mu, due to not existing < 1248553282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the correct location is /boot/emacs < 1248553301 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be a joke/troll manpage for emacs i think that bell labs did, bell labs thinks even Vi is bloat :) < 1248553334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen non-bloated versions of Emacs (not GNU Emacs, some reimplementation) < 1248553338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were basically useless < 1248553359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it felt like notepad with Emacs key bindings < 1248553396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i just linked to it < 1248553401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't think vi is bloat < 1248553404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just think it's designed wrong < 1248553405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1248553408 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248553430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you can reasonably argue vi is bloated; you can argue that /vim/ is bloated, though < 1248553447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: vi is bloated because it does things that are not required to be integrated < 1248553451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed wrong, simply < 1248553456 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive actually come around to the Way of Ed now myself, i think its actually a great tool for quick and easy edits...which probably means ive crossed some sort of Event Horizon for how I work with computers, and nothing i say can even reach the external universe < 1248553460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 kind of annoys me because they were so close to realising that the filesystem was just a redundant identifier for in-memory objects and they could unify them < 1248553472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the unix thinking held on that tiny bit longer :( < 1248553476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs challenge: looking at the titles of things in Recent Changes, figure out whether they're true or not < 1248553481 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i agree that plan9 doesnt go 'all the way' with some of its ideas, and there is a lot of 'old unix' still in there < 1248553485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "true"? < 1248553490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I meant spam < 1248553493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1248553496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but said true by mistake < 1248553512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: learn TECO, that's what happened to ehird when he was going down the ed route < 1248553519 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: however, as a practical matter - it may be that doing 'a halfway job' and having things work as a pragmatic matter was still the right decision, plan9 is still evolving and being actively developed, so who knows what it will look like eventually < 1248553531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've used sed for editing before, because I didn't know how to use vi, and didn't realise nano was installed < 1248553534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: if you did s/plain text/in-memory entities/ and s/files/automatically-persisted entities/, Plan 9 would have that part down to a T < 1248553540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were so close < 1248553544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm quite a bit better at vi now, though, although I'm mostly still an emacs user) < 1248553587 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its funny you say that - guess what software i am writing? its actually 'finished' to some extent - it is plan9 software that tries to extend from unix pipes to an abstraction called a 'Hub' that can be either static data or a flowing pipe, with an arbitrary number of readers and writers that can attach/detach freely < 1248553598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1248553599 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think the idea is something youd like < 1248553604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, definitely definitely in the right channel < 1248553612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: quite timely, actually, as we were just discussing unconventional operating systems < 1248553615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you find us, anyway? < 1248553627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we'd probably move on to attempting to program with a bunch of hubs, and nothing else < 1248553632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1248553644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard orbitals cover of the doctor who theme? < 1248553658 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, im in some plan9 related channels and Robdgreat was in there, and we were talking and he mentioned this channel, and i said 'what? #esoteric? joining now!' < 1248553665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 From Outer Space! < 1248553697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my internal memory bank entry for "Robdgreat" is "RodgerTheGreat was a jerk and accused him of stealing his name when he didn't" < 1248553703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have the first bias-inserting RAM ever < 1248553709 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually my ideas even do go in that direction, because i use hubs to do both gnu screen like functionality, and to put 'persistent processes' running in them, with the idea i can eventually make an environment where everything i do is just echo >hub that is 'hiding' the right app < 1248553716 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you remember that too, eh < 1248553722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robdgreat: i remember everything :D < 1248553740 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used this name almost exclusively for about 12 years now < 1248553746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat and Robdgreat are two different people? < 1248553749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's confusing, I never realised < 1248553764 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a very good basis for a trademark infringement lawsuit. < 1248553769 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys conquered egypt awhile back right? < 1248553773 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander the Great was you? < 1248553781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can tell because one's a dick < 1248553797 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248553797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to a first approximation, everyone on the Internet's a dick < 1248553808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mostly dislike him because he was a total jerk to me for no reason and made arguments that hinge exactly on "haha, you're young, QED", but…) < 1248553833 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the fact that you're young clearly invalidates your dislike for him < 1248553840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1248553840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain! < 1248553841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1248553846 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1248553964 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1248554630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone with ubuntu here? < 1248554634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you maybe? < 1248554639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is /boot < 1248554642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1248554644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(du -sh or whatever) < 1248554651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put in 100MB and be done with it. < 1248554655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use ubuntu, you just want how much space is being used by the files there, or are you partitioning? < 1248554662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Applications | Accessories | Disk Usage Analyzer < 1248554664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use 32 MB usually on arch < 1248554667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, du -sh /boot < 1248554668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to annoy AnMaster, I'd use the command line normally < 1248554671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I want to know < 1248554671 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:44:10] (jonas@/boot)$ du -sh < 1248554671 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36M . < 1248554678 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248554680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, 32-bit or 64-bit? < 1248554684 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit < 1248554689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50.5 MB < 1248554691 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kubuntu < 1248554693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that is pretty huge < 1248554694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, with a bit of leeway, put in 100MB. < 1248554696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "37M /boot" for my work-workstation, which is a 32-bit Ubuntu too. < 1248554704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You HAVE got a thousand times that. < 1248554705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit, I have an Ubuntu/Kubuntu hybrid here < 1248554717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85M /boot < 1248554720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to /boot needing about 16 MB... < 1248554724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the school computer I'm IRCing from < 1248554728 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 27mb, but if i happen to be interested in doing kernel testing, it often may be several hundred mb with tons of kernels, so i think being parsimonious for /boot partition is silly unless your hdd is like a netbook or something < 1248554729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whe the hell do they put on it < 1248554730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a 64-bit Ubuntu < 1248554736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Everything. < 1248554740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works for everybody. < 1248554744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it has 6 kernel versions < 1248554761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's three kernels in my /boot; that's 3*~2.2 megs of kernels, 3*~1 megs of System.map, 3*~8.5 megs of initrd images, and 3*~0.5 meg "abi" files. < 1248554762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has all the kernel versions you've ever had installed, unless you explicitly clean up old ones < 1248554767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with all the devices < 1248554779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also backups of them < 1248554785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all the drivers < 1248554789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess since I don't own the workstation it's not actually "my" /boot. < 1248554793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vmlinuz taking up about 3.4 megs, System.map taking 1.8 megs, initrd 8.4, "abi" 0.5 < 1248554805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw since we agree on how things should be manipulated and transformed and stuff in an OS, what kind of ui were you thinking of? < 1248554810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the interest < 1248554815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the somewhat irrelevant config of 89K each and vmcoreinfo of 1.2K each < 1248554836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And the memtest86+.bin of 122K! < 1248554850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on this Ubuntu; maybe not in your case. < 1248554851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's O(1) though, it doesn't count < 1248554852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1248554859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why ouch? < 1248554864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, it's on this machine too < 1248554865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he only has a 32MB hard drive < 1248554870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1248554872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1248554874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm joking < 1248554878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Okay, so I'll store a DVD image there, it's just O(1)." < 1248554885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he has 160000MB < 1248554890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, exactly. < 1248554896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, of course, that 100MB is absolutely vital < 1248554902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... arguably, storing a DVD image in /boot might not be a bad idea < 1248554910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was a liveDVD that mounted itself from disk < 1248554914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As long as you don't store a DVD image for every kernel, which would be incredibly wasteful < 1248554917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got to be potentially useful for something < 1248554919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not sure what it is < 1248554945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I store a different movie DVD for each kernel, every time something I feel goes well with that particular kernel. < 1248554960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What movies do you currently have stored? < 1248554978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his current one is Richard M. Stallman Eats Stuff Off of His Feet < 1248555010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the record, this workstation has a separate /boot partition, "df -h" says size 92M, used 42M, avail 45M. < 1248555090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i do not have one definite opinion on that, but basically there's a way to visualize an object, and there's a working set containing objects you want to manipulate, automatically fit on the screen. < 1248555110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really something i've thought 100% through. < 1248555113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how are objects visualised? < 1248555173 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldnt that be modular and user configurable - i dunno what framework you guys were talking about, happy to be brought up to speed - but it seems like you ought to be able to have objects that act as data/display filters, and by choosing what of those are connected/mounted (whatever your semantics are) in the graphical namespace, you control the display? < 1248555174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a simple and direct question. < 1248555180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep :) < 1248555181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think about that for a hour or so :P < 1248555187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: pretty much < 1248555190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my basic model is: < 1248555204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects and methods that manipulate them directly, standard stuff like "bitmap image" having rotate-by-amount < 1248555206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "views" < 1248555208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :views are, basically < 1248555210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248555211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transformations of objects < 1248555214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be: < 1248555220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transforming an object into a visualisation < 1248555233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transforming an object into a rotated version, via a dialog that asks for the amount < 1248555233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1248555249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can make generic visualisers that have hooks to let additional components add parts to them < 1248555253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also specialised visualisers < 1248555254 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got anything like a semantics for a user command, or a system call in a language, for what applying those might look like? < 1248555271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i generally think graphical, commandline would probably just be the language itself < 1248555277 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248555286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's more challenging to try and apply it to blobs on the screen than just direct commands < 1248555295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because views are basically the interesting part) < 1248555299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and everything duck typed so that a view is just any object that responds to certain drawing commands? < 1248555310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's more abstracted than that < 1248555310 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just thinking along the lines of 'how do i express the transformation/application' at whatever layer im working at if im coding the thing up < 1248555315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a view isn't specifically GUI related < 1248555319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ofc you can add gui interfaces to them < 1248555326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it describes the fundamental interaction, so to speak < 1248555341 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: right, i think thats excellent, the interfaces for applying the transofrmations and the concept of a 'view' as a mapping doesnt need to know anything about graphics specifically < 1248555341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FROM an object, TAKING a scale amount, TRANSFORMING INTO the rotation" < 1248555352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that can basically be used to make a variety of things < 1248555356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a modal scale command, < 1248555362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slider that scales in real-time < 1248555362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1248555369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can add them as different interfaces to the transaction object < 1248555445 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i take it you guys want some kind of abstracted type-safe (or typeless?) system where you can really hand any object to any other object safely, so to speak? if it 'doesnt make sense' you either get weird results or null, but its safe to try to always (apply X Y) or x(y) or however you like to express it < 1248555464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: mine's duck typed < 1248555482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: because you should be able to invent a new type of vector image representation on the fly < 1248555484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and edit it immediately < 1248555487 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248555488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without defining interface boilerplate < 1248555491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _might_ add interface types < 1248555499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you have the type "responds to this message with these parameters" < 1248555499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1248555503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safety is easy, just don't give all objects access to all other objects. < 1248555506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think that generally those just end up repeating the code < 1248555512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what oklopol said < 1248555516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for actual security, capability-based < 1248555521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wantonly applying things to other things, go nuts < 1248555523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might get an error < 1248555537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it royally messes up that object, just zap it < 1248555543 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248555550 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason not to have reversibility built in also < 1248555562 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should always be able to 'pop back' to the previous state before an operation < 1248555562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, yes, very good reason < 1248555564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not TC < 1248555566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean undo < 1248555568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh, of course undo < 1248555572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the near-identical phone numbers in the SCO story? one of them just changes < 1248555574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm going to restore every revision of every object, hopefully < 1248555575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*changed < 1248555581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*store < 1248555581 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, constant versioning! < 1248555589 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been on that as a crusade for a bit < 1248555601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: although i'll prefer to store the symbolic representation of the inverse operation when it's truly reversible < 1248555604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing about logging is it's actually the ideal way to use your hd. < 1248555606 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my plan9 Hubfs, the idea is you can 'freeze' the pipe and then vac it to venti for deduplicative versioning at any point < 1248555609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise < 1248555609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the current hd's < 1248555611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your inverted HD movie < 1248555614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be stored along with the original < 1248555621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm totally optimising for SSD < 1248555630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm going orthogonal persistence < 1248555632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: optimise for ROM < 1248555633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ram is harddisk, harddisk is ram < 1248555636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ram is just the cache < 1248555643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, write-once memory < 1248555645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump over the plug? restart < 1248555651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few seconds, your encode and processing tasks are going again < 1248555669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orthogonal persistence = good, but ideally you should have orthogonal everything < 1248555685 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how about abstracting away totally from the physical substrate, and pushing that down a layer? the os level semantics you just 'tag' your data with whether you want it to be persistent or nonpersistent, versioned or not, etc - and then the lower layers choose how to apply those requested conditions to whatever the actual storage is < 1248555700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: nonono, everything is persistent < 1248555700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, here's my idea for what an OS should be able to do < 1248555702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not up for debate < 1248555708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how grep can add line numbers? < 1248555709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never lose anything unless you explicitly zap every single revision of it < 1248555716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to run an input file through grep < 1248555718 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how about 'no erase' at the os level then even? < 1248555721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /then/ add the line numbers afterwards < 1248555726 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like venti does it? version all the data, never delete < 1248555732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should remember where the lines came from so you can do that < 1248555739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it should be possible, in case you get some stupid files you don't want < 1248555744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just shouldn't be common < 1248555771 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: think about the 'no delete' at os semantics option, because that is a huge security feature in some ways, in terms of data security and availability, if its impossible to mistakenly delete stuff < 1248555781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no < 1248555783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason to do that < 1248555785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just restricts freedom < 1248555793 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it pushes the freedom down a layer < 1248555796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: everything is inherently restricted, anyway < 1248555798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capability security < 1248555802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things can't wantonly delete your shit at all < 1248555808 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can if im stupid, maybe < 1248555828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the user wants to make a big fat drop-target that lets em drag any objects e wishes to it and instantly obliterates it, then e is a royal idiot < 1248555832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will promptly be allowed to do it < 1248555855 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill support 'worse is better' philosophy, sure - thats standard unix principles < 1248555861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1248555864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just support freedom < 1248555868 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1248555875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you would have to explicitly give this object the ability to delete without qualification < 1248555878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to work automatically < 1248555881 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isnt 'worse is better' actually about freedom? < 1248555892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't stop the user doing what e wants anyway < 1248555894 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the idea is 'keep the users freedom, even if that means allowing stupid things' < 1248555899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if e wants to get rid of eir data < 1248555903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eir final resort? < 1248555908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw the harddrive out of the window; stomp on it. < 1248555922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: worse is better is about the internal implementation simplicity beating correctness and a nice UI < 1248555924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't fully agree < 1248555936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, well, the unix UI sucks because of it. < 1248555949 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1248555950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, brb. feel free to ping me, the messages will go into the mental Q < 1248555955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean queue < 1248555956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think being opinionated about UIs is actually your most salient feature < 1248555956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1248555969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though < 1248555981 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool ideas, ill actually try to code what i can embodying them for plan9 < 1248556279 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248556952 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248557205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, heading of one of the forum posts talking about SCO's latest complicated attempt to achieve something: "Is Germany in Japan, or is Japan in Europe?" < 1248557389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ubuntu doesn't accept extents on ext4 partitions < 1248557393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1248557406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: installer doesn't accept it < 1248557544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no package selection? what the hell. Means I have to remove manually after? < 1248557917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's UBUNTU for crying out loud < 1248557919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you expect < 1248558041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extents? < 1248558076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the new feature in ext4 < 1248558178 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248558178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248558424 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1248558424 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1248558806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:32 AnMaster: no package selection? what the hell. Means I have to remove manually after? < 1248558810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you don't remove after. < 1248558847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:05 ais523: ehird: I think being opinionated about UIs is actually your most salient feature < 1248558847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1248558862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have to know that the internals are bad much less than I have to know the UI is bad < 1248558880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't like using software that makes me think meta-thoughts as opposed to the thoughts about what I'm doing < 1248558925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it means you don't remove after. <-- I don't want stuff like palm sync tools < 1248558935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remove them you'll remove ubuntu-desktop < 1248558939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will break upgrades < 1248558942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, distro ugprades < 1248558947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you don't want htem < 1248558948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them < 1248558949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use them < 1248558955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they take what, a few meg? < 1248558961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, AnMaster < 1248558966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you remove all the elisp files you don't use? < 1248558978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just let 5x5, life, ... < 1248558982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay around and simply not use them? < 1248558985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rest my case < 1248558999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing ubuntu-desktop doesn't 'break upgrades' < 1248559005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means you aren't automatically given the standard application set < 1248559015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sort of < 1248559017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you're removing standard applications, you can't be... < 1248559019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more stuff to it than that iirc < 1248559032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it generated a broken initramfs... *debugs* < 1248559065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…I'm not sure AnMaster understands what Ubuntu is… < 1248559129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encrypted root < 1248559135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need that < 1248559163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do know that when people steal your laptop they'll give up at the password prompt and install Windows? < 1248559177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do know that when people steal your laptop to steal your data they'll just physically threaten you for the key? < 1248559186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could they? bios password and boot order set to boot disk first < 1248559195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be non-trivial to boot a windows install cd < 1248559198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure could be done < 1248559201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not trivial < 1248559205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then they'll just give up and dump it. < 1248559211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as they would at the password screen. < 1248559218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as I said, "you do know that when people steal your laptop to steal your data they'll just physically threaten you for the key?". < 1248559226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encrypting / on a laptop that's password-protected buys you precisely zilch. < 1248559234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No caveats. < 1248559259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual trick if you want to get a laptop past, say, the TSA, is to set it to boot Windows with no timeout < 1248559263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you normally use Linux < 1248559278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1248559279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, TSA? < 1248559282 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only assuming you cave in to the threats. < 1248559288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or violence < 1248559310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, uh, when someone's repeatedly hitting you in the face with a baseball bat and knocking out your teeth, you're gonna tell them your encryption code < 1248559325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, alternatively, die < 1248559331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your data is more important than your life < 1248559343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i know the alternative is to die, then depends on the data. < 1248559345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: possibly I'd end up dying, my strongest password is so long and complicated I can't even spell it correctly more than 1 time in 3 < 1248559364 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data so secure, even you cant read it < 1248559366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O ehird's a mod on Reddit? < 1248559371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in /r/mspaint, yes. < 1248559378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a rather… small corner of it. < 1248559380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1248559397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a community for 6 hours" < 1248559401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems you need alt install cd to make it work for ubuntu < 1248559410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway i'd say few people are actually willing to kill me for whatever data i may have < 1248559412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1248559434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently you haven't been listening to me < 1248559436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd probably just assume they aren't going to kill me even if they tell me they are < 1248559448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about not encrypting? No < 1248559456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it provably has no forseeable benefit < 1248559457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: congratulations, you have now just about wrapped up the relevant xkcd comic :D < 1248559461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case whatsoever < 1248559473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is dat so < 1248559515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/538/ < 1248559527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your contribution being the hover text < 1248559529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1248559586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, after a few hits from a baseball bat, if still conscious, i'd be so full of adrenalin it would probably be much harder to get the passw out of me < 1248559615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they drug you first, duh < 1248559618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sans laws and ethical codes and with a nice amount of things to hit people with and drugs i'm pretty sure i could get your password out of you oklopol < 1248559640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt that < 1248559649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really depends on the data < 1248559676 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ehirds strength < 1248559679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not sure you understand how drugs work < 1248559681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course there are things i'd die for. < 1248559686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: i specifically specified things to hit people with < 1248559691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well right, depends on the drugs as well i guess :P < 1248559695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, oh, a powered chainsaw? < 1248559700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much I died for. Maybe if my dying would prevent deaths < 1248559707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sort of thinks the idea that people can withstand torture by willpower is a myth, except he vaguely recalls reading that McCain did so... < 1248559709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I died/I'd die/ < 1248559710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you never died for something? < 1248559712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1248559713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1248559736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1248559741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, say there were instructions for killing the whole population of earth on my hd, i would die before giving those up. < 1248559749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah managed to work around it < 1248559774 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I met someone who had something dangerous to hit me with (say, a bat), I think still it depends partly on the strength < 1248559781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster — doing things that can be proved to have no positive effect and just make things way harder for him since 2009. < 1248559785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no, probably all his life. < 1248559794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: chainsaws aren't that heavy < 1248559798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need much of a swing < 1248559804 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1248559814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slipping and dropping it adds to it ofc < 1248559844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chainsaws suck for getting the truth out of someone < 1248559856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess you could remove a hand or something < 1248559873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it rather depends on how close you are to the nearest policeman < 1248559887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "sans laws and ethical codes and with a nice amount of things to hit people with and drugs" < 1248559888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— my conditions < 1248559894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, let's say the government approves < 1248559899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're unethical enough to < 1248559905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how much do you value your penis < 1248559924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more than my hands prolly < 1248559933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR < 1248559946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i value my brain the most, so you can't do much better than that baseball bat. < 1248559960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: free trepanation services < 1248559965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes with free lobotomy < 1248559972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works :) < 1248560012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, willing to die for stuff usually means you're willing to lose your penis for it < 1248560020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, intellectually < 1248560022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not instinctively < 1248560026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torture works < 1248560046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so, care to provide one situation where encryption of a password-protected laptop actually has any advantage? < 1248560048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm all ears. < 1248560069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am usually fairly intellectual under all sorts of torture; haven't been hit with baseball bats though < 1248560080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you truly ever been really tortured < 1248560083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt < 1248560112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. but you do realize you don't really feel the pain after a few minutes < 1248560120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no root pass is set? Seems insanely insecure < 1248560127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't log in as root. < 1248560128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use sudo. < 1248560143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true < 1248560153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant: use root password for sudo not user password < 1248560154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should put that on my todo list < 1248560160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. < 1248560160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right under gay sex and killing someone < 1248560161 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo list < 1248560164 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :53| anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo list < 1248560168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case someone looked and saw one password it would reduce the impact < 1248560170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert whatever < 1248560170 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1248560172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do that duh < 1248560173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`append the gay sex bit < 1248560173 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1248560178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /etc/sudoers < 1248560185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can do it, but you shouldn't and it is pointless < 1248560188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should not use ubuntu. < 1248560190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great experiences of life < 1248560209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think killing someone is a terribly great experience < 1248560210 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: So for you, the great experiences are gay sex, killing someone and being tortured. Sounds like a fun night. < 1248560216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your fun function is like destroysPsyche(x) < 1248560246 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically he wants to be a BDSM slave to some guy, then break free and kill him. < 1248560253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1248560254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not just that, but how is having to fight not going insane not fun? < 1248560266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why ais left < 1248560270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure directly killing someone is permanent damage. < 1248560276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck not having trauma from that < 1248560276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*going insane < 1248560283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negation failure i thinks < 1248560290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fighting not going insane sounds fun < 1248560304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really believe in trauma < 1248560319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: trauma believes in you. < 1248560351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again some people seems to get traumatized forever from having someone have sex with them, so i guess i just shouldn't compare myself to humans. < 1248560355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seem < 1248560363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(talking about rape) < 1248560370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think your problem is you think your ego is unbreakable/all of your psyche, and therefore you think resisting torture is merely about choosing not to give in < 1248560372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you ever actually been raped :P < 1248560380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol good question eh < 1248560380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1248560386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, i'm a man < 1248560386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/eh\nehird/ehird/ < 1248560389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they love you, Charlie! < 1248560390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: >_< < 1248560394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: please tell me that was a joke < 1248560395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was a woman, i'd try it ofc < 1248560400 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, it's < 1248560403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they care about you, Charlie! < 1248560411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that women have raped men and men have raped men, right, oklopol? < 1248560418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i assume you're joking. < 1248560441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also horses have raped people < 1248560445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1248560448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's happened. < 1248560453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248560456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it has < 1248560461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welllll okay < 1248560464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this guy, not that long ago, died of it < 1248560478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was more like the guy making the horse fuck him. < 1248560484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1248560486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to, la la la, bending over naked in front of a horse < 1248560487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1248560488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the accident was with a bull < 1248560490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a horse penis? < 1248560493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1248560494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh < 1248560495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eurgh < 1248560498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1248560498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flump* < 1248560519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway no i was not joking, i'm pretty sure there's no way for me to get raped. < 1248560536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well first step someone overpowers you < 1248560541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they fuck you < 1248560549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was a woman, i believe it might be possible. for instance i know women who have been raped, i don't know guys who have even ever feared they might get raped. < 1248560550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless like < 1248560552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third law of physics < 1248560555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oklopol cannot be raped" < 1248560560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right, it's physically possible < 1248560567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying it's unlikely it'll happen < 1248560568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Here you go: < 1248560569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=man+raped&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 < 1248560577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man was raped and beaten by a former lover, High Court hears‎ - 19 hours ago < 1248560577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Man 'raped and beaten by lover' < 1248560580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man 'gang-raped' by 3 women: News24: SouthAfrica: News < 1248560583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1248560601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, i'm not saying it's impossible < 1248560609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying it's like winning the lottery. < 1248560623 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except more.. negative < 1248560631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not rly, just be BFFs w/ creepy fuck < 1248560634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah getting raped by women would be really negative :P < 1248560638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get 'em obsessed over you < 1248560641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and taunt them < 1248560643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make them go insane < 1248560650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do the trick < 1248560688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a lot of work < 1248560722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can't seriously be saying being male doesn't affect *tons* on the odds of getting raped < 1248560728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the odds, ofc < 1248560754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's not like "women are stupid", it's more like "women have vaginas", sure some men have too, but... < 1248560758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm (100% - epsilon) sure that if you're a member of homo sapiens sapiens and you're raped, you will be psychologically damaged by it < 1248560791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are most ppl < 1248560828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's worth noting that you're just a crazy guy and most people include psychologists, people who have been raped, ... probably rapists ... < 1248560829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1248560880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying most people don't get traumatized over something like that, i'm saying i wouldn't < 1248560909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be scared that he'd get an incurable STD < 1248560941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get that from sex anyway < 1248560987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can just check, no reason to be traumatized over it. < 1248560993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a consensual situation, I'd use a condom < 1248560998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the ubuntu equivilent of rc.local? And yes I really need it. Because I need to do some stuff you can't otherwise < 1248561008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I and my partner would be checked for STDs first < 1248561010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :related to battery management < 1248561031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it has rc.local how could I miss it < 1248561054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uhh, battery management can be managed via the preferences. < 1248561060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i guess you would < 1248561075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just kinda in the way < 1248561075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Thinkpad specific settings. And not in settings < 1248561098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent fully charging in order to prolong battery life. As recommended by both IBM and Lenovo < 1248561137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything you can try at home that'd traumatize you? :P < 1248561145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm kinda intrigued < 1248561163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: kill whoever else is in it < 1248561167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, yourself < 1248561167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any genuinely life-threatening accident? < 1248561225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm alone atm, and i don't think dying would be very traumatizing :P < 1248561238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what do you mean it can be done the normal way? it can't < 1248561255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /shrug < 1248561261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sure would be if you watch < 1248561262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would imagine humans have pretty strong instincts against doing anything to themselves that is traumatizing... < 1248561384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my father is kind of a drunk, i've fought him a few times, that usually traumatized me until i walked out of the house and went to buy coffee < 1248561442 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a few hours he calls and is like omg are you moving out the house, and i'm reading my database book and am like what are you talking about :D < 1248561459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a very functional family < 1248561486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family is pretty nice < 1248561518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay an OOPS in the wlan driver. At least the kernel arch used was new enough to not OOPS there < 1248561521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1248561531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so why are you using ubuntu if you just want to complain about it < 1248561538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's above average functionality in finland you know < 1248561545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i DON'T want to complain < 1248561546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1248561548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to work < 1248561549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then don't. < 1248561551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1248561555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't work how you want < 1248561587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm fairly sure my relationship with my parents is better than average in all countries < 1248561601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life is perfect in all senses < 1248561609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish my life was perfect < 1248561644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell your brain it is < 1248561671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my subconscious has veto powers < 1248561703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think my brain control was very good until like a few years ago when i started learning it actively < 1248561724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say it was the evil body-snatching gnomes, but they vetoed it. < 1248561748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it takes surprisingly little effort to learn to be happy < 1248561811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1248561841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you should make lessons dude < 1248561843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on how to be so fucking happy < 1248561859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you're in awe at trees all the time, i can't even be in awe of… an awey thing :| < 1248561862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd totally pay like < 1248561864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$10000000000000000000000000000000 < 1248561873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being happy is easy, stuff like stopping itching is much harder < 1248561892 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aren't you in awe of his ability to be in awe? < 1248561894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you know how to stop itching? < 1248561900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1248561903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told about that ages ago < 1248561917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after i realized i could stop hiccups by just deciding to < 1248561918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the package for stuff like gcc binutils and such < 1248561918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1248561925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itching took a few weeks < 1248561931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build-essentials or something right? < 1248561941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1248561948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it in synaptics though < 1248561950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: that is true < 1248561953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still can't stop a yawn from coming though :D < 1248561956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not in Install/Remove < 1248561958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in Synaptic < 1248561963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...? < 1248561966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is just a super-easy installer for gui software < 1248561968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *am* in synamtics < 1248561968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other's in Administration < 1248561971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1248561973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a full package manager < 1248561976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from administration < 1248561978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in there < 1248561978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1248561979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1248561981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: build-essential < 1248561984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few weeks ago i decided to do it, for two hours i held it in, but it just kept trying to come until finally i got tired < 1248561990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just installreate it < 1248561993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1248561994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*installerate < 1248562008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yawning has always been my weak spot, i sometimes yawn for hours because i just can't stop < 1248562027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you exaggerate how awesome your life is for irc < 1248562028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say yes < 1248562045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1248562049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sey yas < 1248562080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: SAY YES < 1248562086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1248562099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so it is < 1248562102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do enjoy having true stories people just dismiss as the ramblings of a mythomaniac < 1248562109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1248562145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit can't stop yawning :D < 1248562170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why do you pay attention to what shit does? < 1248562172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds weird < 1248562180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm a scatophiliac? < 1248562191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's coppro < 1248562199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are used < 1248562202 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA crapppy < 1248562203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248562206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you did there < 1248562211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no aka coprophillia < 1248562219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coprophilia < 1248562243 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor coppro and his poor name choice :P < 1248562247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were referring to the fact scato is used more commonly for phagia, and copro for the philia < 1248562257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll phage your philia < 1248562260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know what i mean < 1248562269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i totally do < 1248562378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually quite an enthusiast of all kinds of mental disorders, maybe because i've always wanted to be insane < 1248562400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but if you were insane you couldn't properly enjoy thinking about mental disorders < 1248562427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could be a MAD SCIENTIST < 1248562429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean many people consider me insane, but i function pretty well under most situations, i'd prefer something that's actually classified a mental disorder < 1248562434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: true. < 1248562441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're just insane enough anyway < 1248562450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think i have a pretty good amount < 1248562453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're completely bonkers but can point this out and discuss the bonkers at a meta-level < 1248562460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making you sane but crazy. < 1248562475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm very tempted to fuse those words together now. < 1248562483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sazy. < 1248562489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm tasty < 1248562521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, that would be awesome < 1248562564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most mad scientists in comics and stuff are all about destroying the world, i prefer the real world kind that's only interested in some incredibly useless subsubject < 1248562591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that's no fun. at least build an orbital death ray! < 1248562595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being interested in only one thing is boooooooring < 1248562602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namsaying? < 1248562633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well true, while i'm not sure i'll ever actually try killing anyone, it would be nice to try out at least a few kinds of lives. < 1248562659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i cannot figure out how those clauses fit together < 1248562663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1248562674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized i left out a few logical steps < 1248562689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i thought hey, who cares he's a smart dude he'll come up with something < 1248562717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my brain made the mental association "this guy is obsessed with killing people and taking their identities" < 1248562717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1248562719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you're not sure you'd ever kill anyone < 1248562720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus going through with it < 1248562721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd like to < 1248562725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can assume their identity < 1248562728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try out new lives < 1248562755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm clearly what oklopol needs there is a body snatching device < 1248562763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how wrong am I? < 1248562767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, my todo list would probably be less broad than the one i joked about earlier, but it's how i'd like to structure my life, trying stuff out. < 1248562772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should ask the gnomes if they do mail order < 1248562786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's true that was probably not deduceable from what i actually said. < 1248562812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that's how < 1248562827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that was still very clear < 1248562834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i prefer my interpretation, don't you? < 1248562836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is deduceable, logic is a lie < 1248562840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's much more of a link between the two < 1248562844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's crazier < 1248562861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i like it < 1248562911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it now your new life goal :P < 1248562951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm not sure i like it that much :) < 1248563000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1248563010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind worked on it hard for about a second < 1248563041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard is it to get a pilot's license usually? < 1248563054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean on a scale from driving license to astronaut < 1248563070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 < 1248563071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking i'd get that but never drive a car < 1248563111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or get a driver's license at like 40 like my dad did < 1248563156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: astronaut is just pushing some buttons in a cabin < 1248563157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty easy! < 1248563169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of that he's the kind of driver who waits for 10 minutes, then finds another route, if the traffic light is jammed at red, and there are no other cars in sight. < 1248563200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well the probably job is, i agree like totally completely, but i'm talking about the training < 1248563203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long it takes < 1248563215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astronaut training: < 1248563221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This button does this, that one does that, blah blah." < 1248563225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, you're going to the moon." < 1248563226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bye!" < 1248563257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean driving license takes like 30-300 hours, kind of a rough estimate, i'm not exactly an expert, astronauts train for like... many years, right? < 1248563293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 3 seconds < 1248563332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1248563357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird i could've sworn it was took at least like a crash course in vegas < 1248563360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-was < 1248563366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a pilot's license in a couple of weeks if you insist on it. < 1248563385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, if you fly every weekday) < 1248563392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a Go Anywhere The Fuck You Want To pilot's license < 1248563401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get in your plane and start it and fly wherever and just touchdown and get out < 1248563410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wherever, not Anywhere < 1248563427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, find a nice little island hanging around? < 1248563428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchdown! < 1248563430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plant flag. < 1248563450 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just decided that I'm going to spell "advise" as "advize". Screw you, UK. So I would advize you to use something other than an Airplane if you want to do that. < 1248563451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pant fag. < 1248563456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's a basic pilot's license, flying in the right lanes using visual information. < 1248563458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they tried that, but unfortunately they had some trouble getting north korea to sign on the scheme < 1248563466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no no no < 1248563475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHEERVER < 1248563477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHEREVER < 1248563479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't hit things < 1248563495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, counting other countries, eh? Good luck with that. ;) < 1248563495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you have one? :) < 1248563502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No. < 1248563514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah; also islands and shit < 1248563520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be awesome to go anywhere. < 1248563524 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... the ocean? < 1248563526 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... space? < 1248563530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not spac. < 1248563531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space. < 1248563532 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... the Andromeda galaxy? < 1248563533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ocean yes. < 1248563535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1248563537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not andromeda. < 1248563558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a FTL spaceship. < 1248563572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want a spaceship designed to lose < 1248563600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is ftl for the lose in that? < 1248563608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1248563614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster than lard < 1248563625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's just confusing. < 1248563629 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1248563635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faster than 1 L/T. < 1248563657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lard testicle) < 1248563657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flimsier than lettuce < 1248563796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://retrocode.blogspot.com/2009/07/perverse-code-deviant-forth.html ← ooh interesting challenge < 1248563800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's rot again < 1248563820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define rot < 1248563821 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* putrefaction: a state of decay usually accompanied by an offensive odor \ * decompose: break down; "The bodies decomposed in the heat" \ * decomposition: (biology) the process of decay caused by bacterial or fungal action < 1248563858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1248563888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw turns out i don't have to vacuum the flies just yet, the rest of this house's population is sick, and isn't coming home for a week \o/ < 1248563916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1248563926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go socialize with them right away < 1248563929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y z → y z x < 1248563930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1248563949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1248563954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pull the third element to the front < 1248563999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well < 1248564005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could combine y and z pretty easily < 1248564007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1248564020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1248564021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy < 1248564041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well relatively < 1248564053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1248564061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mumbles something about bit size and information content < 1248564094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine top two >r >r < 1248564095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1248564096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then stuff < 1248564105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically get the two back out again separated < 1248564108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1248564112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically < 1248564118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm what do those R things do? < 1248564126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>R, R>, R@ < 1248564127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: >r pushes top to return stack < 1248564129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mumbles more forcefully < 1248564131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r> pushes return stack to thingy < 1248564133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r@ does something < 1248564142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not assume bignums :P < 1248564156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh < 1248564163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think R@ is R> without the pop < 1248564163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, guess i don't know what return stack is. < 1248564166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. just top of return stack < 1248564171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically another stack < 1248564175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has return addresses but you can ignore that < 1248564207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the function returns, are its contents pushed on the data stack or something? < 1248564219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: erm return stack doesn't contain return values < 1248564224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains addresses to jump to to return < 1248564236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically you want to leave the return stack as you came in to the word with < 1248564240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise shit will fuck up < 1248564247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, i see now. < 1248564247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use it as a zero-sum secondary stack < 1248564287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it might be used for having another stack where zero-sum is somehow enforced automatically; whatever that means < 1248564318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: : DUP >R R@ R> ; explains it < 1248564320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put at return stack < 1248564323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top of return stack < 1248564324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop from return stack < 1248564325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1248564329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized it does < 1248564330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also no bignums < 1248564340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, i know that much about forth < 1248564412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises how to stop AnMaster using Ubuntu < 1248564413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's over? < 1248564417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they disabled control-alt-backspace. < 1248564421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess i could just read the definition < 1248564426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: WHAT. < 1248564432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: x y → x y x < 1248564433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :) < 1248564434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ROT >R SWAP R> SWAP ; < 1248564437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MURDER. < 1248564439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1248564442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that uses swap. < 1248564447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although well < 1248564449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's valid < 1248564452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does it work? < 1248564456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so expand that < 1248564464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't it? < 1248564464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: post it as a comment, anyway < 1248564475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should < 1248564477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've hit it accidentally before, plus you can go to the console to restart X < 1248564480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good riddance < 1248564484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decruft! onwards! < 1248564495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETHNIC PURGING OF THE UNSANITARY ELEMENTS! < 1248564503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE—WILL—PREVAIL! < 1248564524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know how to enable ctrl-alt-backspace btw < 1248564526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is dead easy < 1248564537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the SWAP implementation looks complicated < 1248564541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not with no xorg.conf < 1248564543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still easy < 1248564544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why are you using ubuntu? you're just reversing everything they've done < 1248564553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems very pointless. < 1248564574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because things works mostly for the hardware < 1248564584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would in debian too, and you'd complain less. < 1248564584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I'm only changing some stuff < 1248564592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: using the other definitions on the page, that'll surely be more than 50 words when expanded :( < 1248564594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I like debian even less < 1248564608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it feels less integrated < 1248564613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe he doesn't mean expanded < 1248564623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you remove that palm stuff? < 1248564628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you don't care about integration. < 1248564630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit odd installing something like the svn *client* pulls in mysql *server* < 1248564636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, it does? < 1248564640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1248564643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh shouldn't you be able to do SWAP with some other trick < 1248564653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without going by that horrible OVER < 1248564668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: easily < 1248564669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think < 1248564670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you hated mysql too < 1248564675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1248564676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1248564677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1248564678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1248564689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup >r + r> - < 1248564690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's nop < 1248564696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: swap dup >r + r> swap - ; < 1248564696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1248564701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also installed lyx pulled in over 700 MB.... Sure that includes texlive, but texlive isn't THAT large < 1248564701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>R swap R> swap < 1248564702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and QT < 1248564704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again < 1248564707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1248564710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oerjan did that for rot < 1248564715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1248564716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, texlive IS that large < 1248564718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did too < 1248564720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1248564725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: plz don't think about swap < 1248564726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you too < 1248564728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to zen out < 1248564733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know it was trivial before i tried it < 1248564733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might pick up your pesky brain waves < 1248564758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no texlive is around 300 MB installed iirc < 1248564764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QT another 50-60 maybe? < 1248564823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think that's the simplest way to swap < 1248564825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1248564827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1248564828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1248564828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude > synaptics < 1248564830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1248564840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aptitude is not recommended any more. < 1248564841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use apt-get. < 1248564853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that doesn't have a gui at all though < 1248564861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the horror. < 1248564866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, aptitude = synaptic, in semantics. < 1248564888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aptitude seems to have more advanced features. Couldn't get regex search to work in synaptic < 1248564894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1248564898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so what are the exact rules, 50 without using anything but >R, R>, R@ and -? < 1248564907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I missed that option < 1248564937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yah, pretty much < 1248564944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: : swap >r dup r> + ; is a b → a a+b < 1248564954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful start imo < 1248565354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can think about it now < 1248565356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you too < 1248565358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :length of that solution is 54 < 1248565361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you open it up < 1248565380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just come up with a swap dood < 1248565390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also it's words not chars btw < 1248565400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right 54 words. < 1248565403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or? < 1248565416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: synaptic has everything < 1248565418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1248565423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where is regex search then < 1248565425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway regex search is… you're… i can't even think of one use < 1248565427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for package name < 1248565439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ttf- < 1248565442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was what I wanted < 1248565444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "ttf-" < 1248565449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of packages containing ttf in the middle too < 1248565455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there were some with ttf in the middle too < 1248565458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttf- in the middle won't be very common. < 1248565462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the dash. < 1248565473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stuff like -mode$ to find all emacs modes (plus some more) < 1248565482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other stuff contains -mode- too < 1248565485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1248565490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emacs mode" < 1248565511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you so hate optional advanced features < 1248565537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Blah blah I want this do this What about THIS? Ha! You can do that by doing this WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUL < 1248565553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um.. < 1248565563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think your solutions are suboptimal < 1248565578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why *prevent* users from using regex if they want < 1248565580 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, apt-get install ttf-*tab tab* < 1248565586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, "emacs mode" might return a FUCKING CHICKEN. < 1248565588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hm interesting idea < 1248565589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, it'll return emacs modes. < 1248565602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>R >R >R R@ R@ R> R@ - >R R@ - R> R> + >R >R >R R@ R> - + R> R> R> >R >R R@ R@ R> R@ - >R R@ - R> R> + >R >R >R R@ R> - + R> R> < 1248565608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "idea"? < 1248565609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reality. < 1248565622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: R> >R cancel < 1248565625 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the tab key < 1248565627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I tried looking for "plan9" and didn't find the user space plan 9 thing. Nor was "plan 9" very useful. And both returned lots of irrelevant results < 1248565635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there a regex to match more strictly would have been useful < 1248565640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because plan 9 from user space isn't in the repos. < 1248565644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but i just removed a random amount of them so it's under 50 < 1248565647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248565648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, parts are < 1248565652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I found rc at least < 1248565655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1248565656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a different rc. < 1248565659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different version. < 1248565666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, says it is from plan9 though < 1248565666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to actually find a local optimum, and i definitely refuse to make a solution from scratc. < 1248565667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1248565667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1248565672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's another port. < 1248565678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P9fUS is distributed as one, in-tree build and nothing else. < 1248565679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1248565687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that swap? < 1248565693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's rot < 1248565695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even gentoo has a package for plan9port < 1248565696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1248565701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: make swap < 1248565728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes wlan works after this sleep < 1248565729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1248565731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just substituted the definitions in. < 1248565732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. Dick Cheney wanted to use the military for "terrorism" arrests. < 1248565737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: Army troops and tanks. < 1248565740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In US cities. < 1248565744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney should star in porn. < 1248565756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney and his Dick in… I Want Your "Cheney" In Me < 1248565769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney and his Dick in… Anti-Terrorism Enforcement < 1248565777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney and his Dick in… Martial Law in the Bedroom < 1248565786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney and his Dick in… Sexual Shooting < 1248565787 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A successful triology? < 1248565788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1248565788 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1248565792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Nogy. < 1248565794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-ogy. < 1248565794 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now a quadology < 1248565810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trilorgy < 1248565816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orgyorgy. < 1248565818 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1248565826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mushroommushroom. < 1248565841 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much room for mushrooms? < 1248565855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney and his Dick in... The Patriot "Act" < 1248565882 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{3}/…/ < 1248565884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^Dick //, i think < 1248565895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: oops, sorry < 1248565900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But this is redundantly redundant. < 1248565907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh actually, forgot to substitute +'s definition in; probably can't get under 50 without thinking then < 1248565918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't care about rot < 1248565920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i care about swap < 1248565938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the vol+/- buttons work. But not the mute one < 1248565949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I have to dig in ACPI stuff to make it work < 1248565960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ubuntu still yes < 1248565975 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one needs a mute button < 1248565983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hah < 1248565993 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mute button on the controller for the speakers < 1248565997 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's enough for me < 1248566018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the play/pause keyboard key for play/pausing Amarok < 1248566093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1248566104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mute button works but isn't reflected in alsamixer < 1248566107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anywhere else < 1248566110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware mute? < 1248566116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ubuntu uses pulseaudio, btw. < 1248566126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should look at PA stuff instead of alsa when possible. < 1248566160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well... I was going to do real time sound stuff... that means jack. < 1248566168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe that isn't a good idea < 1248566173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on ubuntu) < 1248566175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OSSv4, man! < 1248566183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I considered it < 1248566186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1248566189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny latency, great quality, low resource usage. < 1248566193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA compatibility. < 1248566195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm using jack on my desktop < 1248566205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure OSSv4 is so easy on Ubuntu < 1248566205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seriously considered changing to OSSv4 < 1248566206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1248566214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are concerns about the code quality but that's not really important < 1248566215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't on gentoo either iirc! < 1248566216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works < 1248566220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so proably < 1248566221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1248566236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could be done it'd just require some rewiring < 1248566239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a custom kernel < 1248566249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not custom kernel < 1248566252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1248566256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1248566264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ossv4 is a kernel module < 1248566272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1248566348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse is transparent and has a little annoying red LED inside < 1248566353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if I could open it up and take it out < 1248566378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could remove one of the pins from the scrollwheel while i'm at it to make it smoother and quieter