< 1246752056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think my apps-can-specify-whether-to-multitask-or-not is best; if you home-button on a multitasking one, you see it warp into the "Open Applications" icon (not just away into the void), and its little red knob increases count. If you want to quit a multitasking app instead of suspending it, if you hold down home you'll get three buttons: Force Quit (what holding down does now), Quit, and Cancel. < 1246752074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that my five years old Symbian-7.0s-or-something "smart"phone can do the thing. As for UI, it doesn't even try to do anything more than a single application on-screen at a time. It's just that you can use the "switch" button to select which one you want. Oh, and there's some sort of notification system thing where a backgrounded app can put a speech-bubble-like thing on there. < 1246752086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That would be a decent solution. < 1246752094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, only things like IRC clients run in the background; it's easy to see when you background an app vs quitting it; there's visual notification you have backgrounded apps open; and you can choose not to background an app. < 1246752238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't mind that. Though I still would be annoyed if I had to quit any sort of complicated-task application just because I wanted to jot down a note. Or was there already some things you still could do without quitting an application? (Though I guess it doesn't matter, I don't see myself iPhonizing anyway.) < 1246752272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, if you held down the home button, the "Quit" would turn into "Suspend" for non-multitasking apps. < 1246752275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do that. < 1246752301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure they've thought about it and I'm sure my trivial idea has been brought up. < 1246752307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly intuitive for users, I'd think. < 1246752468 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1246752951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I think I'll sleep. Have to wake up in 5 hours to be at a church; there's this confirmation thing of the wife's parents' godchild, and for some reason they told me to attend to. Even though oddly enough I seem to start to feel mildly (physically) unwell in any sort of religionistic loci. Strange, that. < 1246752970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "religionistic loci" is a brilliant phrase. < 1246753015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "church" would be too common a word, and anyway had already used it once. < 1246753024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's some sort of incompatibility. Anyway, nights. < 1246753064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait! < 1246753071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. < 1246753074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it. Do it now. < 1246753077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...do it then, rather. < 1246753236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: \o/ \o/ \o/ < 1246753237 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        |   |   | < 1246753237 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       /<   |\  |\ < 1246753243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Augur. < 1246753256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i just wanted to get some myndzinian \o/ing < 1246753256 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                            | < 1246753257 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           /´\ < 1246753264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "Augur" was a command. < 1246753289 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_ /o/ \o\ _o/ \o_ /o_ _o\ \o/ /o\ < 1246753289 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |    | < 1246753290 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /<   >\ /<  /<   |\ /`\ /<  /`\  /| < 1246753292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi's script amuses my client; sure, it does mIRC naming, BUT YOU DID NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT I USE A PROPORTIONAL FONT! < 1246753299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh. < 1246753301 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're gonna die. < 1246753307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1246753310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! < 1246753324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Here I was, thinking I was going to like, NOT die. < 1246753334 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didnt say i was a very INSIGHTFUL augur < 1246753339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1246753342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Proportional fonts are t3h lame. < 1246753368 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're writing real documents. < 1246753369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't say such things or someone will sodomize you with typography. < 1246753372 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case they're wonderufl. < 1246753383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderufl. < 1246753438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderofl < 1246753447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a bitch. < 1246753451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like unto a bitch. < 1246753453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a virgin < 1246753509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like unto a virgin bitch. < 1246755304 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1246755772 0 :Associat0r!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency" < 1246758592 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246758593 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246758625 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1246767711 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1246767731 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode doesn't support + type channels! < 1246767751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is of course lame. < 1246768241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1246768620 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1246769193 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246769480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1246771302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a + type channel? < 1246771486 0 :Associat0r!n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1246771527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1246771798 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god that was such a horrible movie < 1246771832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was? < 1246771847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transformers < 1246771961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1246772373 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me the cube, boy! < 1246772375 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cube! < 1246772387 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CUBE < 1246772391 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...mr anderson < 1246772566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CESSMASTER: wat < 1246772585 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugo weaving voiced megatron < 1246772590 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that about the fight at the end? < 1246772600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skipped that part. < 1246772897 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why did you bother sitting through any of the movie at all? < 1246773091 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to see what it was like < 1246773096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can say from experience that it was shit < 1246773677 0 :Associat0r!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: they ruined TF < 1246780799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1246780800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1246781971 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1246782202 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246786146 0 :Associ8or!n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1246787131 0 :Associat0r!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1246788351 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-252-206.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1246788467 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1246788960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. <-- um most european churches are not creationist afaik, so it would just look silly, not majorly offensive. < 1246788995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd think he'd gone nuts, and they would be right. < 1246789036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heck, most _american_ churches are probably not creationist either.) < 1246791696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1246792284 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1246793320 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1246795736 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1246796237 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1246797548 0 :Associ8or!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency" < 1246799314 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1246799491 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1246799496 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1246799510 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1246799640 0 :Associat0r!n=Associat@62.194.163.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1246800436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1246805520 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-3-138.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1246807074 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246807285 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1246809409 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1246809629 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246809659 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1246810464 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/langs.png < 1246810465 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1246810474 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the first time I ever heard of esolangs < 1246811103 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1246811203 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU SO SILLY LOOKING INTERCAL < 1246811430 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that u < 1246811781 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not INTERCAL < 1246815866 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1246815874 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ineiros < 1246818946 0 :Pthingg!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1246819447 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1246819589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not. _i_ am INTERCAL. also, napoleon. < 1246819735 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1246819792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 on the other hand is a turing machine. also, jesus. < 1246819829 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1246819923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not a Turing machine, I don't have infinite memory < 1246819935 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a finite state machine? < 1246819951 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I guess not, you can't have infinite input < 1246819962 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the word for really finite machines < 1246819968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure you do, you just need to work on your left/right stepping < 1246820003 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounded-storage machine < 1246820017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure there's a difference. < 1246820021 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : But the earth is wrapping < 1246820025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite state = bounded-storage... < 1246820042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's only asymptotically bounded in the input. < 1246820043 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : But finite state can do infinite output or input < 1246820057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so can bounded-storage, surely? < 1246820072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input and output don't need to be stored, after all < 1246820081 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iunno < 1246820094 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, but in the real world, they exist in some way < 1246820095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an actual technical difference... < 1246820138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: it's not very reassuring that the first google hit on bounded storage machine is the esolangs wiki < 1246820175 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246820199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the "real" concept of linear-bounded automata. < 1246820218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's technically different, but not in a way that changes the abstract computability class, i think < 1246820239 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c2391BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1246820255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bounded-storage machine = like tm but has bounded length tape, finite state automaton = has no tape at all < 1246820273 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1246820296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1246820318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for tms, the input and output is included in the tape < 1246820326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it really is different < 1246820349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afa IO is concerned < 1246820387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, the article discusses both bounded and unbounded input < 1246820427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the linear-bounded automata has a tape whose length is a linear function of the initial input, to summarize it as briefly. < 1246820519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well that's just a special case of space complexity < 1246820550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1246820596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since linear is big enough to include the original input, it is. but for smaller complexity classes one uses a more subtle method. < 1246820613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still an interesting special case because it's the automaton-thing that corresponds to context-sensitive grammars. < 1246820619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1246820670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for smaller classes one uses extra tapes. the input and output tapes can be as long as you want, but you can _only_ read and write to them, respectively. < 1246820699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the actual working tape has length O(f(n)) where n is the length of the input tape. < 1246820724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "BSMs with bounded input" esolang subsection's explanation why it's less powerful than a FSM is (in my mind, anyway) more complicated than the alternative trivial thing, which would be "bounded input == finite language == obviously strictly less powerful than a FSM". < 1246820749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you can meaningfully talk about logspace e.g. (a very interesting class i think) < 1246820814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true that < 1246820907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. < 1246820940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246821298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect a lot of them are quite obscure < 1246821399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some like L, P, NP may have special abbreviations because they are so important. others may have special abbreviations because they are so radical no old notation fits for them :D < 1246821441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are also the parametrized classes like TIME() NTIME() SPACE() NSPACE() < 1246821470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are probably as userfriendly as you can get < 1246821576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like PSPACE/EXPTIME/EXPSPACE don't _quite_ fit into them, because they are not the SPACE() and TIME() of single functions... < 1246821594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose someone could clean it up a lot if they wanted to though. < 1246824153 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246824185 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1246827573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1246828595 0 :jix!n=jix@81-223-217-34.work.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1246828664 0 :Associat0r!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency" < 1246828664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:16 oerjan: fizzie: Go there dressed up as Charles Darwin. Including the beard. <-- um most european churches are not creationist afaik, so it would just look silly, not majorly offensive. < 1246828668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but darwin looks fucking awesome < 1246828670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rest my case < 1246828672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:17 oerjan: (heck, most _american_ churches are probably not creationist either.) < 1246828675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha! < 1246828676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wish < 1246828691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most that are sane are. < 1246828717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1246828721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sane ones are invariably in major population centers. < 1246828744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um how can you be sane and creationist? < 1246828746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The East Coast, for example, only has sane churches (from my experience) < 1246828757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s/Most/All/ < 1246828779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you reading my sentence backwards? < 1246828781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, when I went to Boston, it was weird... Churches flew gay pride flags. < 1246828792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:08 fizzie: Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. < 1246828794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like chemistry! < 1246828794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm being weird. < 1246828814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you mean incomprehensible < 1246828824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That too. < 1246828826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you are reading it backwards :) < 1246828836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying all sane churches are creationist wrt what oerjan said < 1246828850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the exact opposite of what I mean. < 1246828872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:19 oerjan: um how can you be sane and creationist? ↠you know, there's two simple substitutions I could do here, and I'll only do one for sake of not upsetting people < 1246828882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um how can you sane and in #esoteric? < 1246828892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the other one, please. < 1246828915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you'll lynch me :D < 1246828923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious. < 1246828938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll do that anyway. < 1246828947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are insane, remember? < 1246828949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay then: um how can you sane and religious? < 1246828949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm nearly a complete pacifist here, man. ;) < 1246828965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sodomized by a nearby pack of bears < 1246828977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pedobear! < 1246828997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know he had a family < 1246829007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm referencing the bible. < 1246829012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the pedobear gets angry when people diss religion? That's curious. < 1246829020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow me to quote: < 1246829021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, the pack of bears. < 1246829031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head." < 1246829033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." < 1246829051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The morale? "If you call someone a baldhead, bears will fuck you up." < 1246829055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tare = scared, BTW. < 1246829067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As long as said baldhead curses you." < 1246829070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall i used that quote to chase a jehova's witness away once. haven't seen any since. < 1246829082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not the quote but that story) < 1246829104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that only works well on people who hold the Bible to be 100% literal truth. < 1246829112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seen any near my home since < 1246829121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as opposed to the even crazier ones who pick at will :-P < 1246829131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keep handing out pamphlets in town, of course < 1246829133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want some jehovah's witnesses to come by here so I can tell them I've been excommunicated < 1246829143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1246829145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disfellowshipped < 1246829150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminology, ehird. < 1246829151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminology. < 1246829183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/happy-plane.jpg Adorable. < 1246829186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, this makes me ashamed of my country-place: http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060810_evo_rank_02.jpg < 1246829226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yow; you guys have a lot of crazy people then? < 1246829235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange that norway and sweden are much further up < 1246829245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't the three countries usually quite similar? < 1246829252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the strange bit. < 1246829255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, modulo culture < 1246829310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Only 40% of people in the US accept evolution? < 1246829319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, pikhq < 1246829322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where have you been? < 1246829328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is a shitfest. < 1246829331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly they did an "intelligent design" lecture in our university and all. But that was all the work of one crazy person, I think. < 1246829338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was at least 50%... < 1246829363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you all need to GET A BRAIN! MORANS < 1246829364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO USA < 1246829382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is strongly considering moving < 1246829400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But if you move you won't have to put your packets IN SPACE. < 1246829426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: JOY! < 1246829443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want packets in space, I want *civilization* IN SPACE! < 1246829452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to move to TIME. < 1246829456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And put my TIME in SPACE. < 1246829460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be FREAKY. < 1246829499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I idly think about what country I'd like to move to, basically my main concern beyond the whole "nice set of freedoms" thing is the internet. < 1246829500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1246829519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I can't even get more than 6mbps here, and the best in the UK is 24mbps. < 1246829549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty much on par with the US. < 1246829568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know why people like the USA. < 1246829586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low IQ. < 1246829601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not particularly pretty in most of the places, your politics are seriously right-wing, your internet is 3rd-world, an awful lot of stupid people dwell there, it's insanely corporate... < 1246829651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only thing we've got going for us is that our university system is pretty good – IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. < 1246829667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, I'd love to go to mit. < 1246829688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately there's other obstacles to that, like I don't think I'd do terribly well :P) < 1246829741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually... < 1246829757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how they've made their CS course into a practical thing. < 1246829770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropping SICP, changing to Python and making you drive a stupid robot was the stupidest thing a university has ever done. < 1246829801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, US. We've got universities with far more stupidity. < 1246829809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1246829829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most state-funded universities spend most of their funds on their sports teams. < 1246829851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two accredited universities that I know of, one teaches creationism and the other is part of a cult :) < 1246829852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/langs.png <-- fails to resolve as usual here. < 1246829863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use opendns. < 1246829876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster to boot. < 1246830053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Complexity people are not very user-friendly with their abbreviations. I mean, just the list at http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo is... not trivial. <-- you could say they are.... complex < 1246830067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not funny not funny not funny < 1246830355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Next time you wonder to yourself why a bug exists in Microsoft software, consider the possibility that Microsoft simply want it that way." < 1246830403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's faster to boot. <-- my dns is so fast I don't notice any slowness compared to opendns < 1246830419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc opendns did some crazy redirecting thingy for a few sites or something < 1246830429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Two things. < 1246830445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDNS#Privacy_issues.2C_conflicts_and_covert_redirection < 1246830447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely slower." Your DNS does not resolve some sites, and besides OpenDNS is unlikely to be _slower_. < 1246830451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Second. < 1246830453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can disable that. < 1246830461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes three seconds to disable everything and just give you DNS < 1246830489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that article is... not unbiased. < 1246830520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use OpenNIC instead. < 1246830537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This redirection breaks some non-web applications which rely on getting an NXDOMAIN for non-existent domains, such as e-mail spam filtering, or VPN access where the private network's nameservers are consulted only when the public ones fail to resolve." <-- I use such programs btw. < 1246830537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, don't, unless you're part of the lunatic fringe of DNS. < 1246830542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SO DISABLE IT < 1246830547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE I DID! < 1246830565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see. So I need to login to use this dns? That means I need to login every time my ip changes? < 1246830566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1246830576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have a very dynamic ip that would be a PITA < 1246830587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If your IP is dynamic, then yes, you need to run a program to update it. There are daemons which take up about zero usage that do it automatically. < 1246830590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, every time the adsl modem reconnects I get a new ip < 1246830603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... everyone without an explicit static IP, not "very". < 1246830610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people leave their ADSL connected, though... < 1246830618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, too much work for one single site being broken which Slereah mentioned was broken from many other places too (see logs from 2009) < 1246830636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there have been many others that you have said don't resolve. < 1246830639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, but sometimes it disconnects for no obvious reason < 1246830649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often when there are thunderstorms for example < 1246830651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1246830664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to fix the resolution and don't care about it being faster, then at least don't point it out and complain about an easily fixable problem. < 1246830674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a few has been timing out yes. IIRC most of them did resolve < 1246830686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was the last one? < 1246830695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many during 2009 < 1246830704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I don't remember such things because I don't care enough. < 1246830704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't slow! < 1246830706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to resolve < 1246830717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it can be faster" does not mean "it is slow". < 1246830718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact, resolving is very snappy. < 1246830730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most resolvers are. < 1246830759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what ip for opendns < 1246830767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to time "host" < 1246830788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1246830789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't help lazy people attempt to make invalid, vague experiments without even a sufficient sample size or reptition < 1246830796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repetition < 1246830801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: without disabling the proxying, it may be slower. < 1246830840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using resolver1.opendns.com (208.67.222.222) it is around 0.182s-0.197s to resolve irc.freenode.net < 1246830846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks his isp one < 1246830867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) you're using the domain for the resolver, so you're doing two requests < 1246830874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) see what I said about sample size, repetition < 1246830878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) see what I said about proxying < 1246830879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.136s-0.161s < 1246830890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did 20 samples each < 1246830891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in short, your results are bullshit < 1246830899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is not "sample size". < 1246830900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for proxying, yes sure < 1246830911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, other domains too. < 1246830926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O RLY? < 1246830927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, (a) and (c). < 1246830948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't using domain for resolver < 1246830951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did I say I was < 1246830954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, (c). < 1246830959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "AnMaster: using resolver1.opendns.com (". < 1246830965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I gave the ip there < 1246830969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was what I actually used < 1246830974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Additionally, you're claiming you can perceive 0.02sec < 1246830976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the host name for clarity over irc < 1246830982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when? < 1246830983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: you cannot. < 1246830987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was you < 1246830988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1246830992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is the difference between the two speeds. < 1246831057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, normal resolving is 0.016 here though. dnsmasq on localhost < 1246831071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here I explicitly used my isp's one just to show you < 1246831082 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246831084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So use dnsmasq with OpenDNS. < 1246831085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also above I said: it's faster to boot. <-- my dns is so fast I don't notice any slowness compared to opendns < 1246831092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means: I can't notice any difference < 1246831095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" AnMaster: Additionally, you're claiming you can perceive 0.02sec" < 1246831096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail < 1246831112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't notice any difference then which one you use doesn't matter for speed, so we defer to "it can resolve more sites". < 1246831138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, software daemon for the dynamic ip thing for opendns? < 1246831170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for "opendns" in package repo yielded no results < 1246831213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make an account, add a network, go to settings, ignore content filtering, click stats and logs, decheck enable, apply, advanced settings, enable dynamic IP update, uncheck typo correction and .cm, uncheck shortcuts, proxy and botnet < 1246831222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll check for a linux program < 1246831236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1246831287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.opendns.com/support/dynamic_ip_downloads/ None for Linux, unfortunately, but http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=update+ip+opendns+linux&aq=f&oq=&aqi= might help. From the "Technical Details" tab it just seems to be a POST over https. < 1246831289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Found it. < 1246831293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elinks -auto-submit 1 -dump https://username:password@updates.opendns.com/nic/update? < 1246831294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oops, you aren't using OpenDNS yet. Go back to Step 1 to set up OpenDNS." <-- wait, you can't create an account before you use their dns server? huh? < 1246831301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You did it rong. < 1246831307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work if you set the IPs. < 1246831331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? I was going to create an account before I was going to change what resolver I'm using... < 1246831336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1246831339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I think you might have to < 1246831360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's one of them < 1246831360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opendns.com/support/article/192 < 1246831364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddclient < 1246831367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1246831377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ddclient is for updating dyndns and such? < 1246831382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ddclient already < 1246831384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click the article. < 1246831389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it work for opendns. < 1246831394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm < 1246831397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the dyndns protocol. < 1246831406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1246831414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure to do the tick things I said; it's the combination you need to disable all the fluff. < 1246831435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... also it seems I can't create the account in lynx? < 1246831437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1246831443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does JS stuff, I think. < 1246831447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use a proper browser :p < 1246831460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their site and the guide aren't too nice, but the service is great. < 1246831495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the site isn't accessible. As in WAI. Not as in resolving. < 1246831507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see < 1246831515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, many sites aren't. < 1246831517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sad reality. < 1246831521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION randomly notes that someone needs to write an ECMAscript compiler < 1246831545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thankfully, most actual screenreaders are far more clever than the w3c gives credit for < 1246831561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, because they have to be < 1246831564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love mailinator btw < 1246831579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuck you opendns!) < 1246831599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ha! With gmail I just do penguinofthegods+COMPANY@gmail.com. Then if they can spam me I can tell and shun them forever. < 1246831629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could quite easily figure out what part was the real one though... < 1246831638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and I checked, it doesn't work on my isp :/ < 1246831642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because + is a valid character in email addresses. < 1246831650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo+bar+quirky@awesomemail.com is perfectly valid. < 1246831658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And foo+bar+floopy doesn't need to be the same person. < 1246831664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly nobody cares and you could detect, but nobody does because nobody cares. < 1246831686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, isn't the the "redirect to the same account thing"? but with some sort of alias < 1246831692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that something else < 1246831701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1246831709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a gmail feature. < 1246831713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The + is just a convention there, is I guess what ehird wants to say. < 1246831718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail also ignores dots, so you can do penguinofth.egods@gmail.com < 1246831719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly a gmail-only thing. < 1246831730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only heard it for gmail < 1246831748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think qmail used to have some sort of easy/built-in support for it too. < 1246831752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail_address#Sub-addressing < 1246831771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they've written an RFC about it. < 1246831784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail uses - for it? < 1246831786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1246831787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qmail < 1246831788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's evil. < 1246831794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because-nobody-hyphenates-words-like-lisp? < 1246831823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Err what has djb got to do with lisp? < 1246831828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have I missed something < 1246831831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was +. But I could be wrong. < 1246831839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this-is-lisp-style-hyphenation. read-your-link-AnMaster-and-read-the-qmail-part. < 1246831846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, most installations of the qmail and Courier Mail Server products support the use of a hyphen '-' as a separator within the local-part, such as joeuser-tag@example.com or joeuser-tag-sub-anything-else@example.com < 1246831855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I checked, none of those work on my isp < 1246831858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't have an-email-account-with-a-hyphen-in. < 1246831860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use qmail btw... < 1246831866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess they turned it off or something < 1246831875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NOT EVEN anmaster(poop)@isp.com???????????????? < 1246831894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the comment is cut out on client side iirc? < 1246831906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P < 1246831922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right: mu < 1246832111 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1246832179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this-is-lisp This. Is. SPARTAAAAA. < 1246832247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postfix has a "recipient_delimiter" parameter you can set to, for example, "+", but it's not on by default. And a couple of other settings that talk about what happens to those things in address-rewriting. < 1246832450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But + is what all the documentation examples use. < 1246832870 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1246833068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this now fails to resolve some geoip thingys correctly, like google < 1246833075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so google is slower now < 1246833086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's not right. < 1246833087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine for me. < 1246833098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's going wrong, you did something wrong. < 1246833122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1246833137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geoip stuff works perfectly for me. < 1246833160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe they have a resolver in UK but not one in Sweden? < 1246833177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you had a dns cache thing, anyway? < 1246833186 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246833187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you tend to only resolve google once in 500 years? < 1246833201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong, I use it a lot < 1246833211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that doesn't mean you resolve it a lot. < 1246833214 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1246833247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I didn't mean that. I meant that I get a google server that is 25 hops away according to traceroute, instead of 10 like before. One in US instead of in Europe. < 1246833257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that shouldn't happen < 1246833265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so why does it < 1246833283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not ask ehird, the master of OpenDNS knowledge? I'll take a look. < 1246833291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks < 1246833304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As a worst-case scenario, you can add google.com to your /etc/hosts. < 1246833311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does it still say "Go to Google Sweden" on the page? < 1246833330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1246833336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think their servers handle that somehow < 1246833351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't think google would assume country(dns)=country(user). < 1246833356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the IP they give you picks a server. < 1246833359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and it actually says "Go to Google Sverige" < 1246833364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sverige! < 1246833365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yarrr < 1246833374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... firefox is probably not using the new one *restarts firefox* < 1246833416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-F5 or whatever. < 1246833445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that text is gone now < 1246833451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after restarting firefox < 1246833456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-f5 didn't change it however < 1246833459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then our problem is definitely separate; it still tells me I can use the UK site. < 1246833476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: traceroute opendns < 1246833481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see where there server is < 1246833487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you < 1246833508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1246833517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 hops so far and still going < 1246833566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of "no reply" fffs... < 1246833573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that was *tracepath* < 1246833578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries again with traceroute < 1246833639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lots of no-reply too < 1246833724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://pastebin.ca/K72ch2Y7 (pass abcd) < 1246833737 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1246833742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth did you use a password? < 1246833751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I wanted to see how it worked < 1246833755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246833771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, just find out where the server you're using is, 'sall :P < 1246833783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that trace ends up in UK < 1246833793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.X < 1246833794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the opendns server is somewhere in UK clearly < 1246833802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1246833804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but it doesn't offer to send you to the UK google < 1246833807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mine does < 1246833818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct. It didn't offer me anything at all < 1246833833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except suggesting that I was lucky. I disagree. < 1246833863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very strange. Thankfully it shouldn't affect much more than Google and you can put that in /etc/hosts. I suggest making a thread on the OpenDNS forums for a long-term solution. < 1246833881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do use some other geodns thingies < 1246833890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what happens to kernel.org < 1246833940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they stopped using geodns? heh < 1246833951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :September 19, 2008: mirrors.kernel.org has been flipped over to using our new GeoDNS based bind server (named-geodns). This means that, at the dns query level, our servers will attempt to direct you to the nearest / fastest kernel.org mirror for your request. This means that you no longer have to use mirrors.us.kernel.org or mirrors.eu.kernel.org to generally route you to the right place. This does mean a change to mirrors.kernel.org no longer explicitly < 1246833953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pointing at mirrors.us.kernel.org. Additional information on named-geodns will be forth coming, check back here for an addendum soon. < 1246833956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1246833961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mirrors < 1246833962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1246833966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the main page < 1246833973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in www.kernel.org vs. eu.kernel.org < 1246833976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1246834040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay, opendns dumps me on the EU ones, but if the resolver is in UK that would be suspected. < 1246834067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It really should only affect things like Google; there aren't going to be all that many sites that both use GeoDNS and are big enough to have a server in multiple places in the EU. < 1246834088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1246834113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft? < 1246834113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buy some rackspace and set up a Swedish server for them :-P < 1246834122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you really want Microsoft's site to load fast? :) < 1246834131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really < 1246834138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As slow as possible plz < 1246834173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway microsoft.com resolves to somewhere in US using both my ISP's DNS and opendns < 1246834185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc they use microsoft.se and such too < 1246834190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might misremember < 1246834192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As slow as possible still implies that it can be accesed. < 1246834195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft, see? < 1246834197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 nyc9-core-2.pos2-0.swip.net (130.244.194.205) 124.187 ms 125.484 ms 125.713 ms < 1246834197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 some.new-york.router.msn.net (130.244.200.202) 127.790 ms 125.200 ms 127.039 ms < 1246834198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1246834204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some.new-york.router? < 1246834205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1246834209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 shows unusual humour for being microsoft < 1246834242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm a bit scared, this shows microsoft can actually manage to not totally fail to be funny < 1246834251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for double negation... I think) < 1246834257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. < 1246834264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: To be honest, individual Microsofties are okay, and I imagine slipping that hostname by the bean counters would be easy enough. < 1246834271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, rather. < 1246834277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246834300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsofties <-- why does this sound like some sort of teddy bear... < 1246834337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe something clean-ex like thingy, with microfibres < 1246834348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... lycos still fails to resolve < 1246834349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"softies" < 1246834351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah; most of the awfulness of MS comes from their truly awful corporate structure. < 1246834355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What, really? < 1246834355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1246834357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flush DNS cache? < 1246834379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, nobody has access to the full Windows source code. < 1246834391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or API documentation, for that matter. < 1246834394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1246834401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The buildbot sure does ;-) < 1246834401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which dns cache < 1246834406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your local one? < 1246834416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: For obvious reasons. < 1246834457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I flushed it... but I think maybe nss keeps one too < 1246834458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1246834462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :host works, firefox doesn't < 1246834473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly there is a hidden cache somewhere < 1246834494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20031203024955/http://illusionary.com/GNOMEvKDE.html ;; someone should make a Windows entry for this < 1246834825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[So there's over 4 million lines of kernel source. Let's assume 10% is < 1246834826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments, so there's about 3.6 million lines left. Each of those lines < 1246834827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be checked for C++ keywords. Assume that you can do about 5 < 1246834829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seconds per line (very optimistic), work 24 hours per day, and 7 days < 1246834831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a week:]] < 1246834832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is from a kernel developer. < 1246834834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: "What is grep?" < 1246834898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1246834955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: when you move from the US, move OS too. < 1246834967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS? < 1246834980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel. Sorry, zealot ;-) < 1246834982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operating System. < 1246834985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1246834999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, I thought you were doing some GNU/Linux terminology shit :P < 1246835001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe that that is far too dumb. < 1246835012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just a thinko. < 1246835044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1246835060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1246835069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously. Grep? < 1246835079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lycos.fr fails to resolve due to broken glue upsetting dnsmasq < 1246835088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do 5 milliseconds per line, working 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. < 1246835097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No use crying over broken clue. < 1246835097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 5ms per line? < 1246835097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1246835103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You realise dnsmasq caches, right? < 1246835104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it won't help < 1246835108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I cleared it < 1246835109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If that. < 1246835112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even restarted dnsmasq < 1246835112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What kind of chip you got in there, a dorito? < 1246835123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so I think I made sure to avoid that issue < 1246835124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point... what kind of harddrive? < 1246835131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crappy. < 1246835141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5ms to process a sequentially-read file? < 1246835172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYI: I just tried with bind 9.4.3... it fails too on lycos.fr < 1246835189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But you can look it up directly with opendns, right? < 1246835197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as long as you hook up your cache/proxy/etc, it should work fine. < 1246835209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I always use local cache < 1246835218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hook it up to OpenDNS, and it'll work. < 1246835223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1246835224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was off by an order of magnitude, Mmkay? < 1246835226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you speak < 1246835231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please < 1246835234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or more) < 1246835243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How about telling me what I said incorrectly? I read. < 1246835302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it fails due to broken glue for the lycos.fr domain. This happens even with opendns. It depends on the cache software. Since using host directly on isp for it works. And on OpenDNS. < 1246835321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely your cache just directly caches the OpenDNS response? < 1246835321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using dnsmasq, it gets confused by the glue so it can't resolve it < 1246835328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind also has the same issue < 1246835333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you fucking read? < 1246835344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is set to forward < 1246835364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your rebuttal to what I say is just "you're not reading", despite the fact that I have read it all. Perhaps you should consider the unthinkable alternative: I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. < 1246835375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok < 1246835392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would glue break the DNS cache? Don't they just directly cache OpenDNS' response? < 1246835423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't know this well enough to explain it well, what I'm saying is based on logged error messages and tcpdump here. I don't understand DNS well enough internally to know *why* this is an issue. < 1246835449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try djbdns' dnscache? < 1246835455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some googling indicates it is due to broken glue on the domain, a phrase I heard before. IIRC there is an explaination on djb's site < 1246835458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't mind daemontools cruft) < 1246835459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, might. < 1246835470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I already use qmail, remember! < 1246835476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, on your local system? < 1246835481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um yes? < 1246835485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1246835486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use postfix instead? < 1246835488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1246835496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a mail server. < 1246835503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, an MTA. < 1246835508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ess Em Tee Pee. < 1246835509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cron output and such < 1246835514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1246835515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1246835527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But my system is not on 24/7 < 1246835531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What use is cron output to me? < 1246835533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mine is < 1246835552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I postulate that you use a server that happens to have a graphical terminal attached to it, not a desktop. < 1246835554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I always have script checking logs based on white-listing regexps! < 1246835559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I am paranoid. < 1246835569 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1246835576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing when there is a thing in /var/log/messages about SMART indicating disk is failing < 1246835585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't be nice to not notice it < 1246835586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be a day of infinite jest, that one where a trivial backdoor in your system causes all your data to be decrypted and stolen < 1246835601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1246835603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1246835617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles down AnMaster for his local chapter of Paranoiac Persecutors Anonymous < 1246835624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, that's a good idea. < 1246835627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am aware of that no system is perfect... But data-diodes are so damn expensive ;P < 1246835634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should set up a secret society to pander to all conspiracy theories, except we only do it to the paranoids. < 1246835644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Paranoiac Persecutors Anonymous? < 1246835665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we persecute paranoid people. anonymously. < 1246835670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... read it as *panoramic* < 1246835672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can I use djbdns without daemontools? Yes." < 1246835673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1246835675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fefe.de/djbdns/ < 1246835677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it makes a bit more sense < 1246835684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you know? < 1246835697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only tried to set it up once and couldn't get it workin < 1246835697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1246835698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can use anything that handles wrapping them in some way < 1246835704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it left a shitload of daemontools crap < 1246835705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inittab would work iirc < 1246835707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1246835719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 bsd init < 1246835722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also... getting *any* MTA to work is hard. < 1246835724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much nicer than sysv < 1246835732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was just an example < 1246835737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1246835740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MTA? < 1246835743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about dns < 1246835745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that too < 1246835749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but MTA is worse < 1246835771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is all the "get all the dns shit right or everyone will think you are a spammer" bit too < 1246835805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse dns, forward dns, right response, right error codes, right forward domains list, right own domains list... < 1246835810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on... and so on... < 1246835892 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1246835901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so happy for outsourcing. < 1246835912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The internet services kind.) < 1246836189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're now outsourcing our email filtering to china" < 1246836253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm outsourcing your mom to your face. < 1246836303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm so happy for outsourcing. <-- examples? < 1246836310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email, dns. < 1246836323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which specific provider is doing it? < 1246836333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, why do you think daemontools is bad? < 1246836337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email - google, dns - opendns < 1246836349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lots of other email services < 1246836353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanfully < 1246836358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully* < 1246836359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's is better. < 1246836374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it beats a small company; google don't have -time- to read my email. < 1246836380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my own server > anyone else * (true for each sysadmin) < 1246836382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pollution in the form of /service, and other things < 1246836395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have better things to do than fuck around with such things < 1246836400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it should have used /etc/daemontools/service or such < 1246836402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail does verything i want < 1246836409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verything? < 1246836412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentional or not < 1246836413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1246836421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verything sounds nice though < 1246836429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like "very everything" < 1246836435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you would say! < 1246836453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1246836487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, downside is it would be hard to differentiate from "very thing" when spoken. (As in: "the very thing") < 1246836502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution. lojban < 1246836504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1246836524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mi'e eliat xrd with some punctuation I don't care to remember < 1246836534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also with the caveat that that lojbanization sucks. < 1246836547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, but with the wrong punctuation it means "your wife is a big hippo" < 1246836550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1246836563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban would never do that to me < 1246836566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you lojban <3 < 1246836571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246836589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seriously hope you got that reference at least! < 1246836613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after googling, no, I still don't. < 1246836628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever read "Interesting times". I think it was that book < 1246836632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, tv tropes informs me it's terry pratchett. < 1246836646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. And a pretty famous line too < 1246836648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— fuck, I clicked on tv tropes. < 1246836653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1246836659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1246836660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: me too :D < 1246836661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice and quiet evening in here then < 1246836663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googled for the book name to escape < 1246836683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tv tropes says "interesting seasons" < 1246836683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I managed the art of escaping tv troupes easily < 1246836684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1246836697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling doesn't suggest that's a real book < 1246836700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wget and render to text with no links! < 1246836709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget? w3m -dump, bitch < 1246836712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's "Interesting times" < 1246836715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would work too < 1246836729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so someone messed it up on tv troupes < 1246836732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go edit it! < 1246836744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if reading tv tropes does this, I can't imagine how bad editing would be < 1246836763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would end up making a webcomic with lego. < 1246836773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes DMM edits on tv troupes in case you didn't know) < 1246836799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc btw < 1246836812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and I agree with the annotation < 1246836848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wicky < 1246836880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1246836884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IWC. < 1246836891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1246836896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1246837162 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-252-206.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1246837227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does the quality of the sound card really effect how much bass it can produce? comparing with a mic (using same mixer settings) between the on-board audio and the sb live card, then using audacity to plot the frequencies show that the on board card cut off frequencies below about 40-50 Hz < 1246837237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc you said something about on-board being as good? < 1246837240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is VIA btw < 1246837243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me get exact model < 1246837247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How modern is this onboard? < 1246837256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are frequencies <40-50hz actually audible? < 1246837257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60) < 1246837270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from 2008 iirc. since I had the mobo replaced on warranty then < 1246837278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What market range is the mobo? < 1246837280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be 2007, but it was replaced in 2008 anyway < 1246837290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure how you define those < 1246837297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would it cost retail? < 1246837305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$30? $70? $200? < 1246837328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't know... how many RAM slots does it haev? < 1246837329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1246837331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, went on warranty and they had to replace with a different brand, so no idea about the new one < 1246837336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one... don't remmeber < 1246837338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember* < 1246837360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Asus K7V-X SE anyway < 1246837372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1246837374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K8* < 1246837375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 7 < 1246837377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1246837396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quick glance suggests budget < 1246837407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, two ram slots. < 1246837412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, budget. < 1246837424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is irrelevant if <40-50hz isn't audible < 1246837425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is < 1246837465 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to embed a large (4-5MB) binary file in an executable when compiling it with gcc on windows? < 1246837471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can notice the difference with the dubwoofer in this recording of Vivaldi's summer (City of London Sinfonia) < 1246837481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok, it is audible < 1246837486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowest c on an 88 key piano is 32hz < 1246837497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dubwoofer? Is that like a subwoofer but for extra treble? < 1246837498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is very very noticeable here < 1246837503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sub* < 1246837504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo :P < 1246837513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you got my joke. < 1246837519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, then your onboard sound sucks I guess < 1246837520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alas I did not < 1246837538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dub? I only know what that is in Swedish < 1246837539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_music < 1246837544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246837544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always sounds trebley to me < 1246837555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dub in Swedish is the stuff you have on winter tyres(sp?) < 1246837562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointy metal bits < 1246837570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it get a better grip on ice < 1246837580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You've got pointer metal bits on your winter tires? < 1246837595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: call them MËTAL TIRES < 1246837601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's a thing I like about vinyl < 1246837603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can listen to the needle < 1246837609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbdäck < 1246837614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, was "dubb" not "dub" < 1246837625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not know of them < 1246837626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1246837635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you live in the south < 1246837643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...he does? < 1246837646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess a Canadian knew < 1246837656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Missouri's in the South. < 1246837659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to live in Colorado. < 1246837663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's south of North America. < 1246837678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which tended to have rather rough winters. < 1246837685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, though :P < 1246837689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway see the link I gave < 1246837695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a .no interwiki link too < 1246837699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks oerjan for help < 1246837719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though generally you only needed extra traction for mountain roads, and so you'd stick chains on your tires. < 1246837785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. English is "stud". < 1246837789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can get them on bicycle wheels. < 1246837793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246837794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bump! Bump! Bump! Bump! < 1246837801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about highways? < 1246837815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mean, when it is snowing so much they haven't had time to remove the snow yet. < 1246837820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens here a lot < 1246837839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plows just can't remove the snow as fast as it is falling. < 1246837869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most of the US, that happens at most once a year. < 1246837870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snowplows I guess is the right term < 1246837887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the year, studded tires just damage the roads. < 1246837904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chains do the same thing, but they can be removed easily. < 1246837915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, the first time every year it happens tends to be worst. Because somehow everyone is unprepared. Even though they know it happened every year before around this time of the year. +/- a week or two < 1246837928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The rest of the year, studded tires just damage the roads. <-- indeed < 1246837955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C10 16744 Approximately the tone that a typical CRT television emits while running. " < 1246837956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian cities (including trondheim) have a special stud tax to encourage people to use stud-free winter tires < 1246837956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you aren't allowed to use studded tires during the summer < 1246837956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAARGH < 1246837965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that file + my ears = kill < 1246837976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link? < 1246837980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequencies < 1246837981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom < 1246837982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1246837983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I didn't know you could get studded tires. < 1246838001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is very common here during winter. < 1246838006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're banned or *something*. < 1246838018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it's illegal to use studs in the summer < 1246838022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's an annoying tone, yes. < 1246838026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah it works great in cities... But not out on the countryside < 1246838034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: all CRTs make it < 1246838035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and studs really help on ice < 1246838036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear it < 1246838044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so can I < 1246838056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1246838123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Believe me, I know. < 1246838133 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1246838136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1246838137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grumble* why did anyone get the not so bright idea to put connectors on the back of desktops < 1246838145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is why people use tire chains in the US. ;) < 1246838145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: aesthetics < 1246838152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most modern cases have usb ports in front < 1246838155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some others < 1246838171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? the aesthetics of a knee pressing the reset button by mistake when you bend behind the computer? < 1246838174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happened to me < 1246838187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put your computer on your desk. < 1246838190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also IMO aesthetics should go to hell when it makes things impractical < 1246838196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1246838199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB ports in front is fine. < 1246838203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is < 1246838203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Covers 90% of stuff. < 1246838215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I needed line out... < 1246838246 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, my case only has one USB port in front ._. < 1246838255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two of them in front < 1246838256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy a new one < 1246838269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: USB needs to be about as fast as PCIe x16. < 1246838270 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not THAT important < 1246838283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only stick USB ports on computers. < 1246838287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: What, not $30 important? < 1246838288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes please. < 1246838301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple port types are the suck. < 1246838302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, should be even faster! < 1246838321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird err, usb for the power too? < 1246838322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1246838325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can gang them together for more speed. :P < 1246838330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hells yes! < 1246838336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would the wall outlet be the host then? < 1246838336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, 1 gigabyte/sec is quite slow < 1246838342 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I have that many things using USB connected to the computer at the same time < 1246838346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just 8mbit < 1246838346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since usb is based on host- < 1246838352 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have several ports at the back < 1246838353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1246838354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8gbit < 1246838373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infiniband < 1246838375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1246838375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1246838376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore me < 1246838380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCIe x16 = 16 gigabytes/sec < 1246838383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, infiniband! < 1246838387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 128 gigabits