00:03:59 Oh noes 00:04:04 You're sinking into the ebyss. 00:13:33 GregorR, just trying it out 00:13:36 didn't like it 00:13:49 terribly inconvenient 00:14:03 for everyone else especially 00:14:20 Everyone else except ehird. 00:14:34 Who will amazingly undo his memory in order to follow the backlog with you. 00:14:37 It's ... weird. 00:14:38 GregorR, exactly 00:14:59 GregorR, err what? 00:15:26 * Ping reply from GregorR: 8.99 second(s) 00:15:27 heh 00:15:32 STOP PINGIN ME 00:15:36 :P 00:15:50 GregorR, a CTCP wouldn't highlight you anyway 00:16:02 Yeah, but I notice it :P 00:16:23 that's good 00:18:15 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:20:25 * nooga does not read logs because he's convinced that there's nothing worth reading on the channel while his person is absent 00:20:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:20:48 yes, that's what we want you to think 00:21:33 ouch 00:21:45 * nooga is greping the logs 00:24:23 -!- ehird has joined. 00:24:33 i'm just going to assume AnMaster has died in a fire now, la la laa 00:24:44 ehird, why is that? 00:25:00 hmm i felt the strangest feeling, just like someone said "fnord" 00:25:04 queer 00:25:55 ehird, good for you, because I'm actually busy reading a book. Not sure if you know of the author: Stephen Potter. 00:27:31 Harry Potter's brother. 00:28:11 GregorR: no 00:28:17 could be Beatrix's great grandson... 00:28:24 GregorR: yeah, i thought the same 00:28:53 I'd just like to add one thing: Potter isn't a totally uncommon name in England afaik? 00:29:15 I wonder if they give someone a surname Potter when he's smoking too much pot 00:29:16 ehird, wrong, I didn't answer GregorR 00:29:24 AnMaster: well that's what they _want_ you to think, so you don't suspect their conspiracy 00:29:25 Stephen Potter is the English version of (American) John Smith. 00:29:26 nooga, .... are you stupid? 00:29:29 (^^^ just making that up :P ) 00:29:49 AnMaster: at least I try 00:30:00 nooga, potter, as in making pots. 00:30:06 yeah yeah 00:30:15 i know what pot is 00:30:17 AnMaster's masterful sense of humor at work again. 00:30:21 so nothing to do with potatoes then? 00:30:31 GregorR, actually I'm pretending to not understand the joke 00:30:40 Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure 00:30:42 nooga: I wonder if they give someone a surname Potter when he's smoking too much pot 00:30:42 so thus it is double-reverse-humour or something. 00:30:42 lol 00:30:52 GregorR, joke detected! 00:31:09 GregorR: AnMaster's thing used to be sarcasm you cannot possibly detect, now it's ignoring your joke and instead responding to it irritatingly 00:31:09 *joke detected, activating HUMOR MODE* 00:31:19 humor? lame. i have a humour processor. 00:31:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29J3ZCtIYwY < I WANT ONE 00:31:42 * oerjan throws a pie (chromium free) in GregorR's face 00:31:45 GregorR, is that a major or minor mode? 00:32:34 apart from being a typoed mode ;P 00:32:46 AnHero nao 00:32:58 nooga: que? 00:33:17 oh it's just a retarded meme 00:34:07 well SO IS YOUR FACE 00:34:11 :D 00:34:36 someone should make a complete list of all major internet memes... 00:34:42 Oh wait, I bet wikipedia has one already 00:35:19 oerjan: enjoy your elder meme 00:35:35 it has a category 00:35:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fqpp-IAXF0&feature=related < I WANT ONE 00:43:08 nooga: so dangerous 00:43:26 so what 00:43:35 danger is fun 00:43:46 augur: ssh, if he gets one he might kill himself with it 00:44:00 nooga: true. danger is awesome 00:44:19 ehird: golly 00:44:33 is a life program 00:44:49 gimme the pattern! 00:45:05 i can't 00:45:11 just draw downwards ffs 00:45:22 voila, fuzzy sierpinski diamond 00:45:33 it doesnt work for me! 00:45:37 http://blip.tv/file/324976 << I just watched that, holy shit, that guy is probably on crack 00:45:51 simon peyton jones is awesome 00:45:53 i love him 00:45:56 augur: make your hand less steady 00:46:01 :| 00:46:08 do it for me 00:46:21 no 00:46:26 maybe he's awesome but the lecture isn't 00:46:33 what? yes it is 00:46:35 where are the slides?! 00:46:35 its an awesome lecture 00:46:38 augur: just have a 1-3 pixel error every 30 vertical pixels or so 00:46:45 or more 00:46:47 i was about to ask. thank you. 00:47:05 in fact more like 55 vertical pixels 00:47:07 i don't like to watch SPJ, I'd like to watch the thing he's talking about 00:47:33 ehird: i get noise. 00:47:39 augur: yes you do 00:47:41 give it time 00:47:43 no triangles. 00:47:46 give it time 00:47:56 its stable. 00:48:11 augur, ehird: where? 00:48:15 golly. 00:48:30 augur: show me the screenshot i gave you of what you want and i'll give it 00:48:38 i dont have it! :| 00:48:52 then find it 00:48:57 hows a grep again 00:49:05 grep -ir 'FUCK BITCH ASS' . 00:49:19 :3 00:49:22 ir? 00:49:26 insensitive, and ... ? 00:49:32 REALLYAWESOME? 00:49:32 recursive in directory, not files 00:49:35 oic 00:51:31 man 00:51:34 is take a time 00:52:22 ehird: last evening i think i felt true awesomness of haskell 00:52:32 augur: how many logs you have? 00:52:34 no, that was michael jackson's ghost. 00:52:36 also you did run in log directory right 00:52:40 yes :P 00:52:57 ive got 362 log files. 00:53:13 then it should not take any time. 00:53:30 well its not going anything :| 00:54:41 nevermind. spotlight e.e 00:55:47 http://xs136.xs.to/xs136/09071/picture_1324.png 00:56:23 That's like half a sirpienski 00:56:28 http://blip.tv/file/913860 < shat brix, i might say 00:56:31 its a dual sierpinski, actually. 00:56:31 What's the other half? 00:56:46 nooga wut 00:56:50 nooga huh 00:56:52 nooga who 00:56:57 nooga please 00:57:14 So it turns out I have like over 100 euros in petty cash 00:57:20 ?????? 00:57:20 Should I cash it in at the bank? 00:57:21 augur: i don't know how i did that 00:57:26 :P 00:57:27 augur: too bad Life isn't reversible 00:57:32 i dont think its Life, to be honest 00:57:36 it is 00:57:38 absolutely 00:57:41 i am 100% certain 00:57:41 I fear haters hating, because they'd have to wait while I count my pennies 00:57:44 the noise looks unlifelike tho :( 00:57:53 augur: just convert that png to an .rle and play it in golly 00:57:56 and you'll see that it's life 00:58:04 anything will play in life. :P 00:58:13 yes, but 00:58:14 howsa convert? is in golly? 00:58:18 nope 00:58:19 write a script 00:58:21 lame 00:58:28 imagemagick to get it in a simple format 00:59:35 ehird, you refused to send me the file when you first did it 00:59:43 and now you say you cant remember how to do that 00:59:44 augur: i had no file 00:59:48 i do not save golly files 00:59:49 i never make them 00:59:54 but you COULDVE 00:59:58 :| 01:00:00 you're a jerkface 01:01:11 you're a poop. 01:01:24 aha, i found your original source image that you showed me 01:01:26 :x 01:01:56 link 01:01:56 ? 01:02:01 ehird, might i quote from the logs 01:02:03 15:12 ehird: psygnisfive: I have the .rle 01:02:03 15:12 ehird: if you want 01:02:07 hmm 01:02:09 when was this 01:02:14 feb 9th 01:02:39 http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09071/picture_2491.png 01:04:11 i can't see that image 01:06:38 ehird 01:06:41 i do not think that is life. 01:06:46 I can see it.. 01:06:49 but strange 01:06:50 augur, it is life 01:06:58 it is 100% certain life 01:06:58 its not. 01:07:02 and you're 100% wrong. 01:07:09 you are wrong, have a nice day 01:07:25 a white line on #303030 bg? 01:07:33 it's night 01:07:47 AnMaster: golly 01:07:47 what's the point of that pic.... 01:07:52 game of life 01:08:13 ehird, what encoding... 01:08:20 a screenshot of golly. 01:08:30 * AnMaster googles golly 01:08:41 ehird, you're wrong. 01:09:00 augur: i like how you are aggressive to me when you're trying to get files out of me 01:09:06 it's amusingly self-defeating 01:09:11 s/aggressive/angry/; whatever 01:09:24 im not trying to get files out of you 01:09:27 i trust that you dont have the files 01:09:35 you asked me repeatedly for the .rle 01:09:36 * ehird shrugs 01:09:39 im just telling you you're wrong about it being life 01:09:51 augur: have you converted and tested yet? 01:09:51 it *could* be 01:10:04 hard to say 01:10:10 no, ehird, and i dont have to, because i know the decay products of that original line 01:10:17 we know that life does sierpinski on straight lines, and i've tested today that it produces noisy sierpinski on uneven lines 01:10:23 any long vertical line in GoL will produce a proper sierpinski 01:10:35 and crooked ones produce noisy sierpinskis 01:10:39 i don't see what's so implausible about mine 01:10:41 no they dont. 01:10:41 > let a = 1+1 in a `seq` a 01:10:42 2 01:10:47 yes they do augur, i just tested it now 01:10:52 file plz. 01:10:57 nooga: a `seq` a === a 01:11:06 but when? 01:11:19 nooga: hm? 01:11:27 when it happens 01:11:41 well nothing is evaluated until a `seq` a is evaluated 01:11:47 ok 01:11:47 augur: http://filebin.ca/uvpgtw/untitled 01:12:00 hm could you make a reversible game of life? 01:12:11 not easily I think 01:12:24 while keeping similar (but not quite the same) rules 01:12:43 AnMaster: easy. 01:12:48 ehird, oh? 01:12:49 just always save the previous cells, ignoring the 01:12:50 m 01:12:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:12:53 and when that happens, a is evaluated, for the first argument. then the second argument is evaluated, found to already be done, then returned. 01:13:16 to reverse, remove oldness 0 cells, set cell of oldness N to N-1 01:13:16 nooga: although ghc probably optimizes it down to just a 01:13:16 etc 01:13:16 oerjan: mhm 01:13:30 ehird, hm ok, but for the pattern *** that would build a VERY large stack 01:13:42 oerjan: but when i have threads and talk throught the net or something 01:13:51 yes it would AnMaster 01:14:07 oerjan: nooga seems to think haskell's IO stuff affects the language deeply 01:14:08 for some reason 01:14:13 feel free to attempt to disillusion him of this notion 01:14:16 no 01:14:17 ehird, you could do cycle detection though 01:14:20 ehird, the only part of that thats noisy is the places where the line is jagged 01:14:23 wait no 01:14:26 you couldn't 01:14:30 the larger straight portions are not noisy sierpinskis 01:14:32 augur: no it's not 01:14:35 more than one pattern could cause the same next pattern 01:14:36 the whole thing has a lot of gliders and shit 01:14:42 nooga: well everything needs to be indirectly required by some IO action to be evaluated 01:14:47 ehird 01:14:50 im looking at it right now 01:14:55 its nearly identical to a perfectly straight line 01:15:14 augur, which one? 01:15:19 it doesn't have the huge gliderfest that a perfectly straight one produces 01:15:28 the one he just linked to 01:15:36 ehird 01:15:37 link? 01:15:38 its almost identical 01:15:41 AnMaster: ^ 01:15:45 no it is not, shut up 01:15:49 yes it is you idiot 01:15:57 http://filebin.ca/uvpgtw/untitled? application/octet-stream <-- 01:16:02 yes 01:16:02 what app is that 01:16:07 there is no clue what to open it with 01:16:10 rename it to .rle 01:16:12 opens with golly 01:16:32 * AnMaster looks for golly in portage 01:16:38 * AnMaster is extremely surprised 01:16:45 @src par 01:16:46 Source not found. Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash. 01:16:47 it isn't there? That's very unusual 01:16:57 wat 01:17:09 golly is not in gentoo portage it seems 01:17:12 unusual 01:17:14 AnMaster: actually, it's linked with golly in the resource fork. 01:17:27 may not be transmitted over the net. do not use while pregnant. requires os x. YMMV. 01:17:39 ehird, golly is OS X only? 01:17:41 nooga: par is a ghc operator which in principle means the same as seq iirc, but where ghc tries to evaluate both sides in parallel 01:17:43 ............. 01:17:50 ehird: i get the same thing with a straight line. 01:17:52 you're a dumbass. 01:17:54 AnMaster's comprehension of language hits a new low 01:17:55 no seems to be linux too 01:18:01 > 2 `par` 2 01:18:03 2 01:18:04 try reading it a few dozen more times 01:18:06 may not be transmitted over the net. do not use while pregnant. requires os x. YMMV. <-- yes 01:18:07 there 01:18:08 oerjan: ! 01:18:09 you said it 01:18:09 :P 01:18:14 01:17 ehird: AnMaster: actually, it's linked with golly in the resource fork. 01:18:15 oerjan: quite cool i'd say 01:18:15 you are an idiot 01:18:29 :t par 01:18:30 ehird, wasn't clear if it meant that specific part, or the entire thing 01:18:31 forall a b. a -> b -> b 01:18:41 AnMaster: it was incredibly clear. 01:18:52 ehird, to you 01:18:56 because you know what you meant 01:19:12 to anyone who actually knows english........ 01:19:16 but ask some of the .fi people and I bet at least Deewiant would agree with me 01:19:45 ehird, prove it 01:20:22 fuck you. to prove it i'd have to test it with every english-speaking person in the world, YOU cannot comprehend half of everything people say, and yet the only time you blame it on someone else explicitly is with me 01:20:35 ehird, or a large subset at least 01:20:50 to give a rouge probability 01:20:56 ehird: i agree, it was clear. 01:21:02 augur: THANK YOU 01:21:03 and since im a linguist, anmaster, shut up. 01:21:05 to a native speaker sure 01:21:24 but remember, most people in here speak English as their second language. 01:21:28 @hoogle par 01:21:29 Control.Parallel par :: a -> b -> b 01:21:29 Text.XHtml.Frameset paragraph :: Html -> Html 01:21:29 Text.XHtml.Strict paragraph :: Html -> Html 01:21:30 non-native speaker != I only understand sentences if the moon is in the right phase 01:21:32 (Didn't fizzie make some graph some time ago?) 01:21:49 i have spoken to plenty of non-native speakers that barely make any errors, are eloquent, and understand most everything anyone says 01:21:51 oerjan, what do you think? 01:21:57 so please don't attribute it to "being non-native" 01:22:17 AnMaster: i think strawberries are delicious 01:22:22 oerjan, haha 01:22:36 non-native speakers am STUPID 01:22:45 ehird: i still dont get the double sierpinski, sorry. 01:22:58 rouge probabilities sound dangerous 01:23:02 augur: it's ok, you can turn canadian instead. 01:23:03 (what?) 01:23:11 although not quite as dangerous as rogue ones 01:24:08 AnMaster: also i've corrected errors from native speakers before 01:24:18 *by 01:24:27 true 01:24:42 oerjan, rough 01:24:45 native speakers make correct errors 01:24:53 AnMaster: yeah it's pretty arduous 01:24:58 -!- karla has joined. 01:25:47 it is interesting, that for most words I have to google to find out what they mean, you get some definition as the top result *even without the define: prefix* 01:25:56 Amazing! 01:25:59 olaa 01:26:13 this suggests those words are probably less used :P 01:26:21 hi karla 01:26:25 ola 01:26:27 oerjan 01:26:32 haha 01:26:34 emm 01:26:38 hello karla, who are you 01:26:44 oerjan, I have yet to find out how rough = arduous 01:26:46 do you speak english? 01:26:51 no. 01:26:53 i'm talking in french 01:27:00 mmmmm 01:27:05 ok 01:27:08 once we've played with GoL and discovered that there is something that resembles doppler law in the world of ca - when information about cell's state comes to observer with lag equal to the distance between observer and the cell 01:27:10 AnMaster: well you'll have a rough time finding that out 01:27:11 so im speaking german 01:27:19 guten tag 01:27:21 alle 01:27:35 oerjan, ah right 01:27:47 and yeah I did, since it seems it can mean a lot of different things 01:27:48 karla: so are you here for esoteric programming languages or what 01:27:57 ... to ja może coś po Polſku dorzucę 01:28:01 i guess 01:28:17 karla: how did you find out about us 01:28:23 oerjan, använder du synonymordbok? 01:28:27 frikipedia 01:28:36 AnMaster: ikke mye 01:28:43 oerjan, "mye"? 01:28:51 mycket 01:28:53 ah 01:28:54 i can't tell what frikipedia is 01:29:12 nooga: ... what language was that? I was unaware of ſ being in any language but English ... 01:29:14 its like the wikipedia 01:29:28 but 01:29:30 emmm 01:29:31 GregorR, Polish I think 01:29:32 in spanish 01:29:35 yea 01:29:38 considering where nooga is from 01:29:39 ... 01:29:40 a parody of the wikipedia 01:29:44 but n spanish 01:29:52 *blink* we are in a parody? 01:29:55 Polish, but with . in the beginig my filter worked 01:29:56 oh, so uncyclopedia in spanish. 01:29:56 :P 01:29:58 THAT explains why ehird is here 01:30:02 nooo 01:30:04 haahha 01:30:10 ahhahaha 01:30:12 xD 01:30:21 well 01:30:23 yez 01:30:26 i think 01:30:28 err? 01:30:29 oh noes! 01:30:31 AnMaster: you didn't know? well i guess that's expected from you 01:30:42 oerjan, probably 01:30:47 So, it's like Spanish Uncyclopedia. 01:30:51 yes 01:30:54 :D 01:30:59 AnMaster: i do use define: quite a bit though 01:30:59 now one question remains, why are we mentioned in it... 01:31:01 Sweet. 01:31:11 emm 01:31:14 i dont know 01:31:16 Wish I spoke Spanish ... after three years of Spanish in high school :P 01:31:27 hahaha 01:31:28 oh 01:31:33 oerjan, hm, can you recommend a good browser? Firefox is too slow, konq too bad support for web pages... 01:31:34 i dont speak english very well 01:31:36 im just 14 01:31:52 :P 01:32:04 oerjan, so I end up avoiding browser a lot 01:32:27 AnMaster: you are asking a person who is still using IE? >:D 01:32:28 AnMaster: oerjan uses IE. 01:32:33 oh my 01:32:36 I forgot that 01:32:42 Hola. No hablo Español, porque soy un estudiante mal. So, some joke page about some esoteric programming language then? :P 01:32:47 hey, I think wine can run it. 01:32:47 probably repressed memory 01:32:50 oerjan, seriously, Why not opera? 01:32:59 how old are you all?? 01:33:05 39 01:33:08 karla: i'm 13 and i speak english brilliantly. although this could be attributed to it being my first language. 01:33:15 haha 01:33:22 (for some values of brilliantly, admittedly) 01:33:28 hahah 01:33:37 brilliantly inventive spelling and grammar 01:33:39 hi gregor 01:33:40 so 01:33:44 201 01:33:45 http://esolangs.org/wiki/ ← this has our stuff. 01:33:47 (base 3) 01:33:48 you speak a little bit spanish? 01:34:04 ehird: 13? :D 01:34:06 AnMaster: a prime age 01:34:14 haha 01:34:18 nooga: you just set the new record for last person to find out, congrats 01:34:29 normally that'd be the person that just came in here a few minutes ago 01:34:38 but nooga continually pushes the boundaries of stupidity! 01:34:38 oerjan, in a prime base yes 01:34:39 :D 01:34:43 i don't really care 01:34:54 i tought this would be a spanish chat room 01:34:55 :( 01:35:03 karla: what gave you that impression? 01:35:08 emmm 01:35:09 karla: can you link to the article you found this place from? 01:35:11 why should i be concerned with your young age 01:35:19 because a i found this page in a spanish chat?>?? 01:35:21 nooga: you *did* ask... 01:35:21 i'm not a pedobears pal 01:35:23 karla: link? 01:35:27 AnMaster: primality has nothing to do with base 01:35:27 but nooga continually pushes the boundaries of stupidity! <-- And you think I'm bad? 01:35:32 www.frikipedia.com 01:35:41 karla: what page? 01:35:53 frikipedia.com 01:35:57 ok 01:35:58 oerjan, did I say it did? 01:36:03 karla: on the main page? 01:36:07 emm 01:36:10 where it says 01:36:15 chat frikipedico 01:36:25 oerjan, but 3 is a prime. thus base 3 must be a prime base. For certain values of certain. 01:36:30 frikipedia.es actually 01:36:36 em 01:36:39 ok 01:36:46 hm there's an english frikipedia too 01:36:51 karla: and this thing opened up to #esoteric? 01:37:06 very strange. we don't know of this frikipedia. 01:37:07 erg 01:37:12 ok it connects to freenode 01:37:17 which is where #frikipedia is 01:37:23 but we're just a random channel 01:37:29 not related 01:37:29 yes 01:37:34 right 01:37:37 yes 01:37:39 karla: type: /join #frikipedia 01:37:47 Wow, I'm lagged like crazy. I got all the lines back to my previous one in one go... 01:38:04 emm 01:38:05 so 01:38:07 sorry 01:38:07 GregorR: sue freenode and you ISP 01:38:09 because im here 01:38:12 now this is an unusual misjoin 01:38:13 :D 01:38:22 karla: hello :p 01:38:24 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving"). 01:38:26 ja 01:38:29 heloo 01:38:31 AnMaster: it autojoins #frikipedia 01:38:32 ehird 01:38:37 -!- GregorR has joined. 01:38:39 so i guess "hi" came out as "/part/join #esoteric" 01:38:44 "las lolis son agentes de la Guardia Civil y los Jocicuos son mujeres portuguesas ecofeministas 01:38:55 ehird, ok. That's strange 01:39:00 whatever that means... 01:39:05 haha 01:39:11 ii know what that means 01:39:21 lol 01:39:22 oerjan, try google translate? 01:39:36 the loli's son's agent is the Civil Guard's lost son of Jociuos, the portuguese eco-feminist 01:39:39 örjän 01:39:46 haha 01:39:48 yes 01:39:54 (note: translation made by replacing each word with closest english equivalent while keeping grammatical structure) 01:40:06 ehird, ... 01:40:09 haha 01:40:11 "kamuikd are the agents of the Guardia Civil and Jocicuos are Portuguese women ecofeministas" 01:40:12 says google 01:40:24 haha 01:40:28 this is the right one 01:40:29 I guess the joke was lost in translation 01:40:30 :@ 01:40:41 AnMaster: dude, it was a joke translation 01:40:47 01:39 ehird: (note: translation made by replacing each word with closest english equivalent while keeping grammatical structure) 01:40:49 ehird, the latter one 01:40:54 oh 01:40:55 kamukid are agents of the civil guard and the jocicuos are portuguese womene ecofeminist 01:41:01 ehird, " "kamuikd are the agents of the Guardia Civil and Jocicuos are Portuguese women ecofeministas" says google" 01:41:17 hehehe 01:41:20 No definitions were found for kamukid. 01:41:24 *shrug* 01:41:39 ehird: go outside and play soccer with your school friends, that would be amusing 01:41:47 haha 01:41:55 that's from #frikipedia's topic, anyway 01:42:00 They don't play soccer in the UK :P 01:42:03 friends? seems i'm AnMaster, now I need to look up that word's definition 01:42:04 ;-) 01:42:06 also what GregorR said 01:42:09 nooga, even I wouldn't want to force ehird to play football 01:42:18 hahah 01:42:20 GregorR: I KNOW, that's the point 01:42:22 so guys 01:42:23 AnMaster: i dunno, i'd fail very comically 01:42:26 are you from usa? 01:42:27 it could be amusing 01:42:29 playing football in UK isn't nonsenical at all 01:42:30 ! 01:42:32 karla: "in the UK" 01:42:35 karla: Some tiny minority of us are :P 01:42:39 i'm in the uk :p 01:42:42 ohh 01:42:42 ehird, ever played cricket? 01:42:48 im the only girl here? 01:42:52 karla: <-- US, ehird is in the UK, the rest are mostly from various countries. 01:42:55 am i the only girl herE? 01:42:57 karla: Probably. 01:43:02 ohh 01:43:04 i'm almost certain that he can only play on my nerves :F 01:43:13 karla: Unless somebody's holding out on us :P 01:43:17 karla: that-other-guy (err gal) in here yesterday was female. 01:43:20 this channel is about programming though 01:43:23 also sukoshi was female but that was years ago 01:43:27 hahaha 01:43:28 ehird, one of the nutcases? 01:43:34 AnMaster: i see your topic-fucking has done a load of good 01:43:37 also, dunno. 01:43:37 ehird, or some other one? 01:43:38 karla: ooh maybe you shouldn't join #frikipedia after all then, "el canal donde los hombres son hombres, las mujeres son hombres, las lolis 01:43:40 karla: do you know what programming is? 01:43:42 ... 01:43:47 oerjan: what does that mean :p 01:43:57 i dont know what your talking about 01:44:05 ehird, not mine. And as the say "they will always design a better idiot" ;P 01:44:08 the channel where the men are men, the women are women, and ... 01:44:09 karla: coding computers. 01:44:12 programs. 01:44:15 no offence meant to you ehird! 01:44:19 er! 01:44:23 AnMaster: what about offense 01:44:37 youtubed 01:44:41 *the channel where the men are men, the women are men, and then the last thing i posted 01:44:44 ehird, aspell thinks "offense" doesn't exist. 01:44:46 so unknown 01:44:51 pretty sure it is with c 01:44:55 ... 01:44:59 GregorR: ... 01:45:05 AnMaster: aspell is mentally retarded. 01:45:15 ehird, I use en-GB wordlist 01:45:20 Spelling offence with a 'c' is pretty offencive. 01:45:20 oh 01:45:24 ehird: what about your driving license 01:45:32 nooga: mu 01:45:36 mu? 01:45:42 ehird, actually: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/offence 01:45:55 AnMaster: nobody says offence 01:46:06 ehird, except aspell's en-GB wordlist yeah 01:46:10 m is far from f on us keyboard 01:46:17 AnMaster: it needs both 01:46:17 ehird, maybe I should use en-US? 01:46:25 ehird, both what 01:46:31 AnMaster: spellings 01:46:33 also, cat together en-* 01:46:38 can i speka spanish ?/ 01:46:39 :P 01:46:46 ehird, that would say color was correct spelling 01:46:49 i take opphence at this spelling 01:46:54 AnMaster: it would say both are. 01:46:57 ehird, which would be horrible 01:46:58 also, color is a fine word. 01:47:01 ehird, YES! 01:47:04 þou ſhall not paſs 01:47:06 horrible for "color" 01:47:12 http://cowbirdsinlove.com/comics/simplephilosophy1.png 01:47:14 LOL 01:47:32 jaja 01:47:43 les gusta la pizza? 01:47:44 karla: well can you speak it? 01:47:45 it's up to you! 01:47:49 si 01:47:52 ehird, hehe 01:47:55 soy hispanohablante 01:48:03 hehehe 01:48:08 "spanish, motherfucker! do you speak it?" 01:48:16 siiiiiiiii 01:48:21 in an alternate universe! 01:48:24 si=yes 01:48:39 si ikke det... 01:48:42 ehird, I love the first one especially. 01:48:55 nice parody 01:48:56 hahah 01:49:06 oerjan, :) 01:49:06 es verdad 01:49:11 hablo spanish 01:49:12 wow, AnMaster has a sense of humour! 01:49:20 me llamo martin, me hablo espanol un poco 01:49:23 xD 01:49:27 hahaha 01:49:28 maybe AnMaster's humour and humor sensors are defective; he has both 01:49:29 pretty good 01:49:35 =) 01:49:36 but they both have a ton of misfires and false negativse 01:49:39 ehird, ... it is well known that I do ... Just tuned to a different frequency than most other people. 01:49:41 so you have to find the subset 01:49:49 i wonder which one is less defective? 01:49:53 probably the humour one 01:50:01 NOW IS TIME FOR A LATE NIGHT CIGARETTE!!!???????!?!111111 01:50:10 ABSOLUTELY! 01:50:12 hahahaa 01:50:23 and tea, ofc 01:50:32 hehehe 01:50:34 * AnMaster cellos with the ignore list 01:50:36 nooga 01:50:45 yo are my best friend 01:50:45 AnMaster: whom? 01:50:46 xD 01:50:55 wow, that's an achievement 01:51:00 ehird, the contrabass player 01:51:03 hahah 01:51:07 AnMaster: who 01:51:25 oh, I don't want to cause any offence to anyone. 01:51:35 lets just say it is related to the topic. 01:51:37 AnMaster: starts with a k ends with an arla? 01:51:42 you're no fun. 01:51:48 we could be trolling her right now. 01:51:57 eeh?? 01:52:01 I don't do that sort of stuff 01:52:07 karla: trolling means "oboe" 01:52:12 "playing oboe at" in particular 01:52:12 .... 01:52:16 ohh 01:52:19 * ehird plays the oboe at karla 01:52:26 I shall have no part in this. 01:52:27 xD 01:52:30 O_o 01:52:38 I'll be back later. 01:52:55 can anybody help me to speak english??? 01:52:57 AnMaster: Swedish Schwarzenegger! 01:52:57 yea, me too, i've got iphone pain-work to do 01:52:59 brb 01:53:20 ehird, which movie was that from. 01:53:26 it wasn't an intentional quote 01:53:26 karla: i'm sure that ehird can help you with that, he's native after all 01:53:35 >:} 01:53:38 AnMaster: well drop the "later" 01:53:38 haha 01:53:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'll_be_back 01:53:48 my msn is 01:53:55 nooga: i'm almost certain the english are migrants. 01:54:02 aah... 01:54:06 carlita_bonita94@hotmail.com 01:54:19 karla: this probably isn't the channel you want. 01:54:27 ehird: me not understanding 01:54:28 i know 01:54:32 -_- 01:54:47 nooga: i'm not a native of England if you go far backe nough ;-) 01:54:57 back 01:55:00 even 01:56:02 ha 01:56:03 well 01:56:08 goodbye 01:56:10 uh, I'm half German, quarter Lithuanian, quarter Norwegian and i speak Polish and English 01:56:20 have a nice day!! 01:56:21 nooga: wait you're not any polish? 01:56:23 karla: bye. 01:56:24 karla: bye 01:56:29 byebye 01:56:31 kisses!! 01:56:31 nooga: please be part polish 01:56:42 no ;p 01:56:50 -!- karla has left (?). 01:57:06 nooga: argh! a friend-of-a-friend is a guy who's insanely lithuanian patriotic and hates poles with the fury of a billion sons 01:57:10 you would make him explode 01:57:42 my grandmother and grandfather form the german side were living in the same place during their whole life - but the terrains suddenly changed from german to polish 01:57:48 and to think poles and lithuanians almost had an empire... 01:57:56 yeah 01:58:11 nooga: i'm not a native of England if you go far backe nough ;-) <-- how many generations? 01:58:33 AnMaster: many; this family is entirely british 01:58:36 prolly anglo-saxon 01:58:56 ehird: and you have this terrible accent and you're ginger 01:59:02 i am not ginger 01:59:03 oh and I know some very very distant forefather was actually Polish. Emigrated to Sweden around 1660 or so iirc. 01:59:05 and i don't have an accent 01:59:11 well a slight british one, but nothing beyond that 01:59:28 funny thing 02:00:04 (My grandmother on my farther's side used to be into genealogy) 02:00:15 i used to have undistinguishable accent (like from tv host) but suddenly it became quite "russian", i bet that's because i don't speak english too much 02:00:51 AnMaster: farther is side? 02:01:04 ehird, drop the ' 02:01:14 AnMaster: fail 02:01:17 ehird, just checking you were alert 02:01:22 AnMaster: it's even more invalid now 02:01:26 "fathers side" is even more incorrect 02:01:30 ehird, err ok 02:01:34 fix it properly 02:01:35 err 02:01:36 "farthers side" is even more incorrect 02:01:40 AnMaster: drop the r, reinstate the ' 02:01:42 father's 02:01:58 ah 02:02:03 didn't notice that typo 02:03:06 it was a stealth typo 02:04:04 ehird: nooga: argh! a friend-of-a-friend is a guy who's insanely lithuanian patriotic and hates poles with the fury of a billion sons << now I know a friend-of-a-friend who is insanely polish patriotic and he hates everyone with the fury of billion sons 02:04:17 apart from polish people i assume 02:04:25 and here's the best part: all his freinds are the same 02:04:35 better, 1/3 of our nation is the same 02:04:36 :D 02:04:43 lawl pollocks 02:04:49 bollocks 02:05:33 So we're talking about genealogy then? 02:05:55 <-- Briton with a side of Jew 02:06:07 GregorR: NWO NWO NWO 02:06:21 I bet you're a REPTILIAN BANKER. 02:06:26 GregorR: but you're not one of that evil Zionists ? 02:06:39 I should put up a picture of my face in profile :P 02:06:55 Suffice to say that if I ever needed to convince somebody that I'm Jewish, that'd do it. 02:07:28 omg omg omg 02:07:40 that will be evil: 02:07:41 i wonder if any jews get nose reduction 02:07:44 plastic surgery 02:07:48 now, cut vs. uncut, discuss 02:07:52 ehird: what for? 02:08:00 so they can be secret jews 02:08:02 nooga: Uh, are you referring to circumcision? 02:08:06 GregorR: NWO NWO NWO <-- Detected probable meme.... Searching database... Meme not found. 02:08:06 yup 02:08:07 GregorR: no, noses. 02:08:18 AnMaster: New World Order; see Zionist conspiracies and the like. 02:08:25 GregorR: nose. circumcision. 02:08:26 clearly. 02:08:26 I find it fairly shocking that we live in a society that totally accepts ritualistic mutilation of infant penises. 02:08:40 O_o 02:08:44 you would say that just to throw us off, GregorR 02:08:45 you JEW. 02:08:53 I'm uncircumcised. 02:08:56 don't be riddiculous ehird 02:09:09 Circumcision is how they brand their pray, it's like 666 but for penises 02:09:23 ehird, in this case? 02:09:30 ehird: =,= 02:09:30 ehird: Idonno about the UK, but in the USA circumcision is pretty much the norm regardless of religious background. 02:09:32 It's ... weird. 02:09:38 GregorR: agreed 02:09:42 GregorR: yeah, 's weird 02:09:45 heh 02:09:49 i don't think circumcision is done in the uk at all basically 02:10:02 Huh. 02:10:15 i don't think you -can- get it done on birth 02:10:43 "By 1975, only 6 per cent of boys born in the UK were circumcised." 02:10:44 says google 02:10:49 Y'know, there are Jews that live in the UK :P 02:10:56 ehird: but you can't say a bad word to a muslim who calls you an animal 02:11:08 nooga: i say "bad words" to all religion 02:11:14 nooga: You are an animal. As are we all. 02:11:20 GregorR: i don't think doctors will circumcise at birth, is what i mean 02:11:27 (they'll explode with rage and clumsy, engish police will run for their lives) 02:12:40 "In the United States, about 70 percent to 80 percent of boys are circumcised, whereas, in Europe the majority of boys are not circumcised." 02:12:53 Only JEWS 02:12:55 yah 02:13:36 God of atheism. 02:14:13 Apparently the USA is 70-80% Jewish. Who knew. 02:14:33 GregorR, that can't be quite correct? 02:14:39 quite a few yes 02:14:41 the % is correct 02:14:43 but not that many 02:14:47 of circumcised guys 02:14:48 wow really? 02:14:50 hm 02:14:50 lol 02:14:52 not of jews 02:15:05 so lots of non-jews being circumcised? 02:15:16 Yes, the vast majority in fact. It's still weird :P 02:15:18 yep. 02:15:25 augur, why on earth 02:15:30 no clue, man. 02:15:55 I'm so happy I'm not in US 02:16:08 GregorR, what is the percentage of jews in US? 02:16:13 its lower 02:16:17 Idonno, substantially less than 70% X-D 02:16:19 probably near 10% maybe? 02:16:25 okay... 02:16:29 That seems a bit high, but maybe *shrugs* 02:16:43 what is the other secret religion practising circumcising in US then... 02:16:49 ah, cia world factbook says 1% 02:16:57 anmaster: white people. 02:17:02 and black people. 02:17:08 It's not a religious thing. 02:17:10 aren't jews white? 02:17:13 apparently 25% of americas jews live in new york city 02:17:20 my understand was someone in US convinced people circumcision was actually healthy at some point... 02:17:21 anmaster: have you never seen those black jews who hate white jews? 02:17:22 XD 02:17:23 *ing 02:17:28 oerjan: yep. 02:17:33 oerjan: Yup. It's a widely-agreed-upon silly lie. 02:17:37 augur, how much of this is due to so many people living there anyway? 02:17:38 the reasoning is, "omg you'll get the aids if you dont get circumcised" 02:17:53 anmaster: only like 3% of the population is in nyc tho 02:18:01 or something like that. 02:18:11 And yet, 75% of the accents are there. Strange. 02:18:18 augur, ok, so I guess it *can* be statistical significant then 02:18:22 AnMaster: there are some quite black jews, from Ethiopia 02:18:23 need to calc on it 02:18:26 nyc is ~10m, whole counter is ~300m, so 1/30 of americans are in NYC 02:18:28 and... tm;dc 02:18:39 oerjan: i didnt mean those 02:18:59 The problem is that "Jewish" refers to both a race and a religion. 02:19:01 i meant the crazy american black jews that are pronazi because the white jews are fake jews who oppressed the black jews 02:19:05 its funny 02:20:44 augur: um i thought the widespread circumcision in the USA was far older than the aids scare 02:21:03 oerjan: possibly, but its the same general idea. 02:21:07 like from the fifties at least.. 02:21:13 "omg you gotta get circumcized otherwise you'll have to wash your cock" 02:21:14 uh 02:21:21 augur: yeah 02:21:30 we should just cut of peoples bodies 02:21:32 because like 02:21:33 you know 02:21:36 otherwise they'd have to wash. 02:21:38 augur: whereas some _have_ actually suggested it helps against aids, in africa 02:21:56 oerjan: it might. you know what REALLY helps against aids in africa? condoms. 02:22:00 and not being catholic. 02:22:05 unfortunately africa has lots of neither. 02:22:12 yea, because skin is probably thicker and less likely to absorb the virus 02:22:25 oh there are plenty of african protestants and muslims too... 02:22:34 wtf 02:22:39 oerjan: sure, but they're not getting aids because they were condoms. 02:22:48 the catholic church specifically tells africans not to wear condoms. 02:22:51 THIS CONVERSATION TOO WEIRD 02:22:57 augur: [citation needed] 02:23:00 The catholic church tells EVERYONE not to where condoms. 02:23:05 this is true, GregorR 02:23:07 *wear 02:23:12 on the "they're not getting aids" part 02:23:13 but not everyone is an african with a high risk of getting aids. 02:23:21 oerjan: :P 02:23:57 This is why I canceled my "getting transportation through sexual favors tour of Africa" 02:23:59 so guys 02:24:00 penises 02:24:09 As guys, we have them. 02:24:11 Class dismissed. 02:24:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Africa_HIV-AIDS_300px.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Religion_distribution_Africa_crop.png 02:24:24 aids trends with being christian in africa 02:24:24 so an extreme shortage of not being catholic 02:24:30 is that like having the inventory item no tea? 02:24:50 ehird: you're 13, you can't even legally use your penor 02:25:00 nooga: Well that's just wildly incorrect :P 02:25:11 nooga: in spain and the netherlands he can 02:25:16 nooga: that's just plain false, i can do most anything with it apart from put it in somebody else. 02:25:16 ehird, wanna go to amsterdam? ;o 02:25:28 i like the idea of someone not urinating until they're 18 02:25:33 oh yes, taking to accound that 70% of 13-year old girls in the UK are preggo 02:25:36 "are you pregnant?" "no, i just haven't pissed for years" 02:25:42 augur: har har 02:25:43 There was a monty python sketch like that 02:25:52 In the German version of Flying Circus 02:25:57 muaha 02:26:00 Idonno about UK law, but age of consent in the US applies to sex over the age-of-consent boundaries; if two 14 year olds have sex, they haven't done anything worse than make probably really stupid decisions. 02:26:09 GregorR: nope 02:26:11 http://www.religiouslyremapped.info/map4/content.html 02:26:13 ehird: nooga: that's just plain false, i can do most anything with it apart from put it in somebody else. < that's what i actually meant 02:26:14 here we get jail time for that 02:26:17 (seriously) 02:26:20 ?! 02:26:21 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 02:26:34 ehird: Then I agree with nooga :P 02:26:36 GregorR: we've also prosecuted underaged people for giving naked pics of themselves to their significant othe 02:26:37 r 02:26:41 so its clear that theres SOME general trend = more christian = more aids 02:26:50 but i cant find a map of different brands of christianity 02:26:57 aha! 02:27:01 augur: goddammit christian != catholic 02:27:04 http://www.religiouslyremapped.info/map5/content.html 02:27:13 oerjan: catholic subset christian 02:27:28 interesting 02:27:28 catholicism is highly non-canonical christianity 02:27:35 augur: That doesn't mean you can take any christian population and say "I assume 25% of these people are catholic" 02:27:38 basically like ancient mormonism imo 02:27:42 aids is more common in protestant countries in africa! 02:27:50 ehird: What an utterly weird thing to say. 02:27:50 gregor: uh, i didnt 02:27:52 hahah 02:27:53 wait 02:28:00 catholicism is non-canonical christianity 02:28:02 you 02:28:07 will have to justify this statement 02:28:08 Pthingg: i know 02:28:12 i'm just stating 02:28:18 catholicism is wildly different from all different sects of christianity 02:28:21 haha 02:28:26 no it isn't 02:28:28 Well, if we're "just stating", then Christianity is totally just non-canon Zoroastrianism. 02:28:29 infact, i explicitly stated that the map DIDNT have a breakdown of the branches. 02:28:33 Pthingg: yes, it is 02:28:38 n..o it isn't 02:28:40 ehird: catholicism is very similar to the anglican church 02:28:41 it's very similar to 02:28:41 eg 02:28:46 the anglican church 02:28:51 and those two are the top two churches 02:28:54 yes 02:28:57 having like 90% of christians 02:28:58 well sure 02:28:59 if anything 02:29:01 i didn't say it was unpopular 02:29:09 catholicism is *the* canonical form of christianity 02:29:15 i know 02:29:16 (one clue is: "canonical" is catholic jargon) 02:29:18 Pthingg: Nah, not that much, in the USA other forms of protestantism are substantially more common. 02:29:18 but it stands out 02:29:28 oh well GOD BLESS AMERICA 02:29:35 meanwhile in the huge portion of the world that is not america 02:29:40 Pthingg: (And the USA has a giant percentage of the christians in the world ... and all the annoying noisy ones) 02:29:49 Pthingg is acting very defensive of catholicism 02:29:52 yes yes, god bless america, usa #1 usa #1 02:29:57 i'm tempted to infer things :p 02:30:12 you are saying stupid things 02:30:18 and somebody saying stupid things on the internet 02:30:21 is a gigantic beacon 02:30:23 flashing 02:30:27 CORRECT ME! CORRECT ME! 02:30:30 Pthingg: you need to 02:30:31 learn how 02:30:32 to use 02:30:34 the 02:30:36 enter 02:30:37 pthingg reads xkcd, obviously 02:30:38 key 02:30:40 it's worse than 02:30:42 me. 02:30:53 No, Pthingg speaks in free verse poetry. 02:31:10 the carriage return is punctuation on irc :| 02:31:12 i prefer beat poetry 02:31:26 Pthingg: It is if you're a flooding dick ;P 02:31:36 Pthingg: you'll get on AnMaster's ignore list! surely you don't want that 02:31:43 man, flooding is saying the same thing again and again 02:31:44 pethingg, ive noticed that you and i break sentences up in very similar fashions 02:31:53 uh probably i mean people copy a lot of how i type 02:31:58 it makes me feel special~~ 02:32:05 namely, at the edges of sentences and sentence complements 02:32:13 Pthingg: no 02:32:16 you are not unique in doing that 02:32:19 i can assure you. 02:32:20 of course not 02:32:22 that's the point 02:32:24 of what i said 02:32:26 jeeesus 02:32:32 i meant you didn't invent it. 02:32:36 Jesus aaaaaaaaaaand...? 02:32:39 man i never claimed 02:32:46 GregorR: mary and joseph! 02:32:54 augur: Dangit, he was supposed to say it :P 02:33:18 :p 02:33:39 i need musix 02:34:23 Borodín's Nocturne from String Quartet #2 02:40:32 -!- calamari has joined. 02:41:29 thus ehird == Pthingg 02:41:32 night 02:42:06 and actually, the idea of ehird having a split personality and arguing with himself is funny.... 02:42:13 night reallly 02:42:15 really* 02:43:45 really 02:43:49 really 02:44:22 AnMaster: hasnt he done that before 02:44:56 I wonder how long new Billy Mays com/infomercials will be coming out. I mean, certainly the amount of time from "recording" to "on the air" is not insubstantial, and it's too late and expensive to restart from scratch ... I wonder if, psychologically, being advertised something from beyond the grave would make you not want to buy it very much ... 02:45:37 I also wonder how long “Pitchmen” is going to last. 02:45:56 Oh, it is sooooo canceled. I'm sure they'll finish out the season, but without him it's not a show. 02:46:10 i would buy something just because a zombie told me to. 02:48:48 that whole SCM in xcode 02:48:57 sucks 02:49:03 really really really suxx 02:50:24 scm? 02:50:31 version control 02:50:32 Source Code Management I assume 02:50:47 svn support is highly shitty 02:51:04 ON A SHITOCITY SCALE OF ONE TO SHITTY, I WOULD RATE IT HIGHLY SHITTY 02:51:20 conflicts all the time, idiotic gui for comparison 02:52:21 > foldl' (liftM3 id [const,flip const]) "B" "rains." 02:52:23 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 02:52:27 darn 02:52:47 if i have "logical" folders in project that reflect "physical" structure of folders on my disk and then i create a file in one of the folders, it's only "logically" there and lands in project's main folder 02:54:35 + objective-c has #import instead of #include 02:55:04 and that whole #import searches for files automatically in frameworks and your project 02:55:23 so try to have 2 files with same name 02:55:25 =.= 03:05:50 > foldl'(flip$ap.sequence[const id,const])"B""rains." 03:05:52 "Braaiiiinnnnnnnnssssssssssssssss................................" 03:06:18 how does it work? 03:06:25 explain please 03:06:32 MWAHAHAHA 03:08:35 > ap (sequence[const id,const] 'r') "B" 03:08:36 "Br" 03:08:45 > ap (sequence[const id,const] 'a') "Br" 03:08:47 "Braa" 03:09:43 Braaaains 03:09:46 that thing in the last parenthesis is the same as [const id 'a', const 'a'], or [id, const 'a'] 03:09:50 ehird: spoony == oerjan. Just FYI. 03:10:05 (Using the extensive evidence I just presented :P ) 03:10:21 You spoony bard! 03:10:41 `define spoony 03:10:42 * DJ Spoony is the stage name of Johnathan Joseph (born 25 June 1970, Hackney, London ) who is a British DJ, and former BBC Radio 1 presenter. \ [13]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoony \ * A foolish, simple, or silly person; A foolishly amorous person; Enamored in a silly or sentimental way; Feebly sentimental; gushy 03:10:48 ................. 03:11:41 nooga: ap [id, const 'a'] "Br" is the same as [f x | f <- [id, const 'a'], x <- "Br"] 03:11:50 > [f x | f <- [id, const 'a'], x <- "Br"] 03:11:52 "Braa" 03:12:50 nooga: what that does is to concatenate two lists the length of "Br", one where the characters are kept and the other where they are all replaced by 'a' 03:13:06 is that part ok? 03:13:11 ok 03:13:23 GregorR: Final Fantasy translation reference. ;) 03:13:55 Final Fantasy... 6? had a crappy translation, and someone was accused of being a spoony bard. 03:14:09 so then we make that a point-free function of the 'a' and the "Br" part. We want to reverse the arguments so that it fits into the foldl' 03:14:58 @pl \br a -> ap (sequence [const id, const] a) br 03:14:58 flip (ap . sequence [const id, const]) 03:15:58 and then we use foldl' to apply that to an initial "B" list and each of the rest of the characters in turn 03:16:55 oh 03:18:47 ap is a monadic function, used here with the list monad to abbreviate a list comprehension 03:19:43 sequence is also monadic, although confusingly it is used with a completely different monad, the (e ->) monad. this is a nice trick to apply a list of functions all to the same argument. 03:21:15 anything in particular still unclear? 03:21:16 and const is? 03:21:21 @src const 03:21:22 const x _ = x 03:21:46 @src id 03:21:47 id x = x 03:21:50 @src flip 03:21:51 flip f x y = f y x 03:23:20 > sequence [f,g,h,i] x :: Expr 03:23:21 Couldn't match expected type `t -> a' 03:23:31 hm? 03:23:45 > sequence [f,g,h] x :: Expr 03:23:47 Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' 03:23:56 :t x 03:23:58 Expr 03:24:00 :t f 03:24:01 forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a 03:24:27 :t sequence [f,g,h] x 03:24:29 forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => [a] 03:24:36 okay 03:24:40 got it 03:24:57 i'm not sure why Expr doesn't show what i want there 03:25:16 oh! 03:25:18 these haskell hacks look pro 03:25:25 > sequence [f,g,h] x :: [Expr] 03:25:26 [f x,g x,h x] 03:26:55 -!- AnMaster has quit (Success). 03:27:50 making haskell hacks is a bit addictive 03:28:40 i've read that funny tutorial with pictures and my code is also funny 03:32:12 i need something more synthetic 03:34:02 * oerjan doesn't know much about tutorials 03:34:08 but ask in #haskell 03:35:06 how did you learn haskell? 03:35:46 i don't quite recall what tutorial i looked at 03:36:11 but after that i read the language definition 03:36:32 that was around 2001-2002 03:37:06 oh 03:38:01 then i didn't do much until around 2006 or 2007 when i joined #haskell for a while 03:38:30 and picked up a lot of small but maybe not that useful tricks :) 03:42:22 uh 03:43:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:43:28 * oerjan wonders what that blue flag is the reddit alien is holding 03:43:34 *which 03:44:05 Where it says the topic must contain "esoteric programming languages" does it also mean it has to be in all lowercase? 03:44:35 well if EgoBot still enforces it, then probably 03:45:54 -!- zzo38 has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "Esoteric Programming Languages" AT ALL TIMES. 03:46:08 -!- zzo38 has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES. 03:46:43 i am not sure if GregorR gave up on it 03:47:12 I gave up on it because you're all a bunch of dicks. 03:47:22 But no, it wasn't case sensitive. 03:47:59 I just wanted to test it to see if it complained when changing the case of the letters 03:50:27 Does anyone here have knowledge of Mathematica and Mathematica Player, I have a few questions about it 03:51:08 coincidentally i just tried wolfram alpha in the other window, but no 03:51:36 does anyone know how to find a flag from its _look_, rather than the other way around? 03:51:45 I'm not talking about Wolfram|Alpha. 03:52:11 zzo38: We're not talking about what you're talking about, so neeah. If anybody knew Mathematica, they'd respond. 03:52:19 oerjan: Idonno, poke aimlessly around Wikipedia? 03:52:38 * oerjan tries that 03:52:40 My questions about Mathematica Player are: Can ToExpression still be used? How large can a inputted number be? Can numbers be pasted in? 03:53:28 But I can tell things I have discovered about Wolfram|Alpha, which I have found in TDWTF and some of my own experimenting with it. 03:53:32 hm cool there is a flags by design page 03:54:01 Type in "how much beer can i drink" and it gives an imaginary number answer in units of inches to the sixth power. 03:54:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Honduras 03:54:29 ooh it was the Hon *dammit* GregorR 03:54:36 <-- wins 03:54:39 And "the answer to life, the universe, and everything" is acceptable in Wolfram|Alpha and it can be used as a constant in other calculations, too. 03:55:04 Also, "what is your name" works, but it can't do anything with "what is my name" 03:55:15 but yeah wikipedia's flag lists are pretty awesome 03:56:16 And "the answer to life, the universe, and everything" can also be used in Google Calculator. 03:57:57 yeah 04:01:20 -!- nooga_ has joined. 04:02:41 Mathematica Player is of no use if the Three Fundamental Questions of Mathematica Player cannot be answered. 04:03:42 this somehow probably has parallels to life in general. or at least people's attitude to it. 04:04:20 GregorR: Following the coup d'etat? 04:04:40 iran is _so_ last month 04:04:46 wait 04:05:00 ok iran is so _soon last month_ 04:05:10 Honduras. 04:05:47 The President of Honduras was moved to Costa Rica in his sleep by Honduran soldiers. 04:05:50 I'm looking over some of the past US flags ... I never realized that there were wildly asymmetrical official flags :P 04:05:52 They're so ugly. 04:06:25 Yesterday I have calculated the value of a tensor diagram using Linear Al. Linear Al can't do tensor diagrams, so I draw the diagram on paper first and then manually converted it to a series of tensor multiplications and matrix multiplications. 04:06:43 (I mean assymetry in the stars, obviously the whole flag has never been symmetrical) 04:06:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Shishou_riot Why was this not in the news? 04:06:57 The diagram I have calculated, is I have made a diagram representing a latch made using NAND-gates, and I got the expected answer. 04:07:18 > product<$>replicateM 7[-1,1] 04:07:20 [-1,1,1,-1,1,-1,-1,1,1,-1,-1,1,-1,1,1,-1,1,-1,-1,1,-1,1,1,-1,-1,1,1,-1,1,-1... 04:08:04 zzo38: seems interesting 04:08:18 O, that's thuemorse sequence! 04:08:32 -!- nooga has quit (Operation timed out). 04:08:33 yeah i translated your tensor idea to haskell 04:09:16 I have gotten the answer [0,0,0,0;0,0,1,1;0,1,0,1;1,0,0,0] which is the correct value of a latch of NAND-gates, isn't it? 04:09:42 what is a latch of NAND-gates? 04:09:48 O, so that's how you do tensor products in haskell. 04:10:06 the list monad is nice for that, yes 04:11:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SR_Flip-flop_Diagram.svg 04:12:10 In order to compute the value of a tensor diagram, you do tensor multiplying horizontally and you do matrix multiplying vertically. 04:13:09 hm right, but a flip-flop is a time varying circuit... 04:13:15 * Warrigal ponders how to make "cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end" evaluate to [1,2,3] 04:14:03 Yes it is time varying and I knew that, but I wanted to find out what would happen if I made a tensor diagram for it and computed its value anyways, so I did. 04:14:47 cons = (:) 04:14:51 end = [] 04:14:56 Any questions? 04:15:00 > (:) 1 (:) 2 (:) 3 [] 04:15:01 Couldn't match expected type `[t]' 04:15:06 Yes. 04:15:12 The diagram required the U-shaped hoops (also called metric tensor), which represent flattened identity matrices. Straight vertical lines represent actual identity matrices. 04:15:13 ... 04:15:17 > 1:2:3:[] 04:15:19 [1,2,3] 04:15:26 Yes, but that's not "cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end". 04:15:38 Oh, right. 04:15:47 Lessee, cons must have the same type as cons 1 cons, and... eh, fucitol. 04:15:47 must have end = [] i think 04:15:49 That line doesn't mean what you think it means. 04:15:57 It means precisely what I think it means. 04:16:04 because logically that's what you get by dropping all the cons'es 04:16:23 oerjan, that makes sense. 04:16:27 Wait, does it? 04:16:43 Well, hum. 04:16:55 * Warrigal ponders continuation passing style. 04:16:55 In order for that to work, cons would have to be of type [t] -> [t] -> [t] -> [t] -> [t] -> [t] -> [t], I think. 04:17:07 some polymorphism is needed there 04:17:29 What you want is cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 end)), or somewhat different syntax in Haskell. :P 04:17:29 How about "begin cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end"... 04:17:37 And CPS. 04:17:56 yes, that should be easier 04:19:40 Using the similar way I have done, you could compute the matrix for any digital circuit (even time-varying circuits) but the result won't be time-varying, but other than that the result will be the correct matrix. 04:20:05 Still difficult. 04:20:13 * Warrigal chases types. 04:20:27 > let begin f = f []; cons l n f = f (n:l); end l = reverse l in begin cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end 04:20:29 [1,2,3] 04:20:50 * Warrigal falls over. 04:21:29 Blah, reverse. 04:21:36 * Warrigal resumes chasing types. 04:21:40 O, it works. I don't know haskell much but I can somewhat understand how it works. 04:22:19 * Warrigal frowns. 04:23:08 am I mistaken that i can write a parser in haskell using guards that the actual program would look almost like BNF? 04:23:10 @type let chase begin cons end = begin cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end in chase 04:23:12 > let begin f = f id; cons cmb n f = f (cmb.(n:)); end cmb = cmb [] in begin cons 1 cons 2 cons 3 end 04:23:12 forall t t1 t2 t3 t4 t5. (Num t3, Num t2, Num t1) => (t -> t1 -> t -> t2 -> t -> t3 -> t4 -> t5) -> t -> t4 -> t5 04:23:13 [1,2,3] 04:23:25 Yeah, I figured it would give something kind of stupid. 04:23:46 i'm not sure if this is more efficient than reverse though 04:23:48 @type let chase begin cons end = [begin end, begin cons 1 end, begin cons 1 cons 2 end] in chase 04:23:49 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t2 -> t1 -> t 04:23:50 Probable cause: `begin' is applied to too many arguments 04:23:50 In the expression: begin cons 1 end 04:23:53 Woo! 04:26:20 nooga_: somewhat, but look at Parsec 04:28:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:31:22 :t choice 04:31:24 Not in scope: `choice' 04:34:04 :t Just Right 04:34:06 forall b a. Maybe (b -> Either a b) 04:35:40 :t Left Nothing 04:35:42 forall a b. Either (Maybe a) b 04:37:04 Parsec looks neat 04:37:50 Using the matrix of the SR latch of NAND gates I have computed, an input of |11> results in *both* output values |01> and |10> while other inputs give a single output state, being the correct state that the circuit would actually produce. 04:49:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:54:30 how to access tuples' elements? 04:55:39 > let (a,b,c) = (1,2,3) in a+b+c 04:55:41 6 04:55:45 is one way 04:55:56 for 2-tuples only there is also fst and snd functions 04:56:42 *are 04:57:54 there are other functions for doing various higher level things, mostly for 2-tuples 04:58:43 > unzip . zip [1..] $ "abcdefg" 04:58:44 ([1,2,3,4,5,6,7],"abcdefg") 04:59:29 > uncurry (+) (2,3) 04:59:31 5 05:01:30 can you zip tuples? 05:01:35 > (pred *** succ) (5,7) 05:01:36 (4,8) 05:01:54 zip turns two lists into a list of tuples 05:02:05 zipWith 05:02:34 (<+>) :: Vec -> Vec -> Vec 05:02:35 (x,y,z) <+> (x1,y1,z1) = (x+x1,y+y1,z+z1) 05:02:47 beh 05:02:59 oh and there isn't much to work on arbitrary length tuples 05:03:09 something can be done with type classes 05:03:22 hm? 05:03:38 there are probably some libraries on hackage 05:04:26 nooga_: a 2-tuple and a 3-tuple are never the same type, so any function that is to work with both needs type class overloading 05:04:36 i want to write whole path tracer from scratch in order to LEARN something 05:04:48 and there aren't any in the basic libraries 05:05:31 generally, if you have elements of the same type inside and need varying length, then use a list 05:06:55 even if you don't need varying length a list can be better since you have map and stuff 05:07:02 and zipWith 05:09:02 hm 05:09:16 isn't list slower? 05:11:20 i need 3d vector type 05:11:20 hm that might be, at least for short tuples 05:11:31 well a 3-tuple should work fine 05:11:54 or a data type 05:12:04 (x,y,z) <+> (x1,y1,z1) = (x+x1,y+y1,z+z1) < is there a way to write it simpler? 05:12:19 with a data type you can make the fields strict (non-lazy) which helps performance 05:12:35 i don't think so 05:15:00 but then you only need a few basic functions for 3-vectors anyhow 05:15:02 you know, path tracer is something that has enormous amounts of iterations in final form 05:15:19 i think that's usually called "ray" tracer 05:15:22 it would be cool to make it parallel 05:15:27 um 05:15:37 path tracer is a specific form of ray tracer 05:15:40 oh 05:15:47 ok then :) 05:16:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing 05:17:36 (last paragraph) 05:18:58 i understand recent ghc has better support for parallel array or list processing which i know essentially nothing about. parallel list comprehensions, i think it's called. 05:21:07 [ trace ray | ray <- (map shootRay imageMatrix) ] ;D 05:21:39 um that's an ordinary list comprehension 05:21:50 there's some special syntax for the new ones 05:22:14 but other than that, probably a good start :) 05:22:39 parallel ones are like [ (x,y) | x <- xs | y <- ys ] 05:23:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:23:28 huh 05:23:43 um no 05:23:47 that's for zipping 05:23:55 I thought that was what you meant 05:23:55 er they may be called parallel 05:24:12 i'll need to use something like 2d array of tuples (800x600 for example) 05:24:16 no, i am talking about something they added for automatic parallel computation 05:24:26 oh, I haven't heard of that 05:25:09 [: :] 05:25:23 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/Data_Parallel_Haskell#A_simple_example 05:25:59 ? 05:26:15 oh no, that's an array 05:27:00 -!- Pthingg has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:32:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:45:37 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 05:48:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:51:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 05:55:23 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:52:38 -!- Pthing has joined. 06:54:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:03:54 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 07:14:53 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:17:14 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 07:36:19 -!- mtve has joined. 07:51:58 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:28:07 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 08:39:22 :o 08:51:55 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:06:07 .. 10:27:41 -!- nooga_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:30:23 -!- nooga has joined. 10:30:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"). 10:34:33 -!- AnMaster has joined. 10:34:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:35:45 great... the harddrive with swap on it died when I was sleeping. Resulting in a kernel panic 10:35:57 funny thing: smartctl said it was just fine. Everything else disagrees. 10:40:01 luckily I have complete backups of anything important on it. 10:48:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:50:53 woot 10:52:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:53:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:23:41 -!- augur_ has joined. 11:37:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:56:12 boredom 12:34:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:45 hi ais523 13:21:56 * AnMaster had a hard drive failure during the night 13:22:00 ugh, oh dear 13:22:03 how much was backed up? 13:22:08 ais523, all of it. 13:22:13 but the drive had the swap partition 13:22:16 so the kernel paniced 13:22:28 oh, ok 13:22:30 well all of it, except the last day or so 13:22:39 most people are upset at losing all their data when their hard drive fails 13:22:45 whereas you're just upset at having to reboot... 13:22:55 ais523, yes and having to take out the drive 13:23:00 the case isn't easy to open 13:23:14 especially since you need to open both sides to take out a drive 13:23:23 to reach all the needed screws holding the drive 13:23:41 this case is really badly designed IMO 13:23:56 ais523, oh and at having to buy a new drive... 13:24:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 13:24:03 I'm quite irritated by that too 13:24:47 http://i39.tinypic.com/8ycl07.png 13:28:45 nooga, uh...? 13:28:53 dunno 13:31:19 nooga, what the hell is it supposed to be... 13:31:27 dunno 13:33:17 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:36:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:38:40 I think I found a hidden 1 April joke by google this year: look http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=google.se 13:39:16 ais523, ^ 13:39:21 hi oerjan! 13:39:28 iwc 13:39:43 but sqrt(-garfield) was funnier today 13:39:58 hi AnMaster 13:40:03 AnMaster: it would be great if they were running a Chrome-based server, somehow 13:40:23 ais523, looking at the date it must have been some 1 April joke that no one noticed... 13:42:20 sure no one noticed? 13:42:34 -!- Judofyr has joined. 13:43:05 oerjan, well, they didn't tell me if they did! 13:43:14 ;P 13:43:48 in fact, i believe fighting fire with fire is a well-known tactic 13:44:23 i seem to vaguely recall it being used in one of the little house on the prairie books... 13:46:03 basically i think they burned a ring around their house before the big prairie fire reached them 13:50:27 yes 13:50:32 oil fires are often put out using explosives 13:50:48 the explosion takes away much of the oxygen in the area and blasts the rest away from the oil 13:50:49 so it goes out 13:51:18 i seem to vaguely recall it being used in one of the little house on the prairie books... <--- oooh, I have a vague memory of them too... 13:54:38 ais523, about that failed drive... even after it failed, querying it with SMART reported that all was well 13:54:42 strange 13:55:55 (strange considering that when ordered to do a short self test all it did was spin up, spin down, spin up, spin down, .... for about half a minute, then reporting "self test aborted by host") 13:56:25 ais523, I never had a drive fail in this strange way before btw... 13:56:45 somehow the partition table *was* readable. But nothing else was. 13:57:04 There's also the term, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_burn 13:57:59 fizzie, to prevent buffer underrun? ;P 14:00:11 AnMaster: that sqrt(-garfield) seems like it would be inspired by the "Ryan North's Jokes Explained^n" posts 14:00:27 oerjan, possibly yeah 14:02:27 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:02:42 fizzie: especially the Back Burning section 14:03:20 Yes; that was actually my wikipedia search, but it got rediddled to that page. 14:15:39 rediddled? 14:15:50 !google define:rediddled 14:15:51 http://google.com/search?q=define:rediddled 14:15:53 um 14:15:56 `google define:rediddled 14:15:57 No output. 14:15:59 was it? 14:16:02 `google define:diddled 14:16:03 No output. 14:16:08 `google define:works 14:16:09 No output. 14:16:11 no it doesn't 14:16:22 GregorR, I'm pretty sure `google is broken ^ 14:17:24 `google define broken 14:17:25 Definition of broken in the Online Dictionary. Meaning of broken. Pronunciation of broken. Translations of broken. broken synonyms, broken antonyms. \ www.thefreedictionary.com/broken - [18]Cached - [19]Similar 14:17:29 um 14:17:38 `google define works 14:17:39 Definition of work (noun) form plural: works labor; task; profession; occupation ; vocation; effort. Definition of work. Define work ... \ www.english-test.net/toeic/vocabulary/.../toeic-definitions.php - [18]Cached - [19]Similar 14:17:43 Okay... 14:17:47 that's screwy 14:18:00 wait, that is a normal result 14:18:09 GregorR, define: doesn't work in `google... 14:20:35 Oh, just "redirected". 14:20:38 `define works 14:20:39 * plant: buildings for carrying on industrial labor; "they built a large plant to manufacture automobiles" \ * whole shebang: everything available; usually preceded by `the'; "we saw the whole shebang"; "a hotdog with the works"; "we took on the whole caboodle"; "for $10 you get the full treatment" \ * performance 14:22:36 Mac Pro, i want one 14:37:09 `cat bin/google 14:37:09 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Google what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ tail -n 2 14:37:21 `cat bin/define 14:37:22 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Define what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q=define:'"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 3 'Definitions of' | \ head -n 4 | tail -n 3 14:39:56 `define rediddled 14:39:57 No output. 14:47:02 -!- zid has joined. 14:47:16 -!- kerio92 has joined. 14:47:31 -!- kerio92 has left (?). 14:47:31 everyone: the new people here are because zid mentioned Befunge over in #nethack 14:47:41 ^info 14:47:47 ^help 14:47:48 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 14:47:58 fungot's written in Befunge, for instance 14:47:58 ais523: but as i said 14:48:08 ^shoq 14:48:11 ^show 14:48:12 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble 14:48:14 ^source 14:48:15 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 14:48:17 ah, that was it 14:48:53 ais523: All one of those new people? :P 14:49:01 Can the bots here do brainfuck? 14:49:05 yes 14:49:07 Woo 14:49:10 sure 14:49:12 Mac Pro, i want one <-- you could get something more powerful for much less from anyone but Apple. 14:49:14 ^bf ,[.,]!test 14:49:15 test 14:49:26 AnMaster: but mac pro is sexy 14:49:29 well i'm busy playing nethack atm 14:49:32 I'll talk to you guys in a bit 14:49:33 fair enough 14:49:42 !help show 14:49:42 show: !show . Shows the definition of a user interpreter. 14:49:46 nooga: I have a mac pro, and I often have sex with it. Oh, would a good computer. 14:49:47 heh 14:49:49 !help 14:49:49 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 14:49:54 !help languages 14:49:54 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 14:49:55 !help sadbf 14:49:55 Sorry, I have no help for sadbf! 14:49:55 I'm actually working on efunge atm 14:49:58 that's what i was looking for 14:50:07 the core stuff for ATHR is mostly done. 14:50:07 !help userinterps 14:50:09 userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 14:50:11 loads of esolangs, plus a few real langs 14:50:14 ais523, 14:50:16 ^ 14:50:23 AnMaster: yes, I noticed 14:50:25 !userinterps 14:50:25 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 14:50:26 as in, the thread supervisor finally works 14:50:28 just didn't think of a reason to respond 14:50:32 !aol 14:50:34 ais523, the newline was not intentional 14:50:38 I wrote a befunge interp, it was just a jump table and bin2o 14:50:43 !show sadbf 14:50:43 sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1 14:50:47 zid, befunge93 or 98? 14:50:52 !aol ais523: This is hyperuseful! 14:50:52 AI5523: TH1S I5 HYPERU5EFUL!!!!!!!!!!1 14:50:53 93 I assume 14:50:56 ah 14:51:03 98 is considerably harder to implement 14:51:06 93 is relatively easy 14:51:07 the 25x80 one. 14:51:12 ais523, indeed 14:51:13 I don't remember the difference anymore 14:51:15 zid: :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1 this is brainfuck in sadol 14:51:28 zid: 98 has more commands, and lets you use programs of unlimited size 14:51:34 nooga: I can't read SADOL 14:51:35 THIS! IS! BRAINFUCK! (in Sadol) 14:51:42 ;D 14:51:46 It didn't support unlimited size but it supported 4.3G 14:51:55 !bfgen 14:52:08 bbiab 14:52:17 !cintercal DO READ OUT #12345 PLEASE GIVE UP 14:52:19 _ 14:52:31 err, ofc 14:52:34 !cintercal DO READ OUT #1234 PLEASE GIVE UP 14:52:44 MCCXXXIV 14:52:51 stupid blank lines before numeric output 14:52:58 !clcintercal DO READ OUT #1234 PLEASE GIVE UP 14:52:58 !bf_textgen ehird is an idiot 14:53:05 MCCXXXIV 14:53:07 that's better 14:53:27 !bf_txtgen ehird is an idiot 14:53:29 awww 14:53:29 145 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++.+++.+.>++.>>++.<++++.<<.>+.>.>---.<<-----.>.<<.>>>+++.<<<.>+.+++++.>----------------------. [167] 14:53:45 !sadbf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++.+++.+.>++.>>++.<++++.<<.>+.>.>---.<<-----.>.<<.>>>+++.<<<.>+.+++++.>----------------------. 14:53:45 ehird is an idiot 14:53:51 haha1`111111!!! 14:53:59 !aol omg that's hilarious 14:53:59 OMG THAT"5 HILARIOUS 14:54:29 !redneck you've said that greg 14:54:29 you've said that greg 14:54:33 beh 14:54:33 ;\ 14:54:59 * GregorR <-- GregOR 14:55:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:55:22 It's like XOR, but instead of being eXclusive, it's Greg. 14:55:41 gregariously so 14:55:52 I should implement somethng in brainfuck using xor linked lists 14:56:04 just for the fact of having to implement both linked lists and xor 14:56:16 zid: wo'd write a compiler first 14:56:22 we* 14:57:01 GregorR: AFAIR you've developed something ... eeeee .... c2bf ? 14:57:19 Look at ais523's gcc-bf instead. 14:57:42 it's unfinished, although finished to the point that you can consider it a very buggy finished product as opposed to an unfinished one 14:57:45 > foldl1' xor<$>replicateM 5[minBound,maxBound] 14:57:47 Add a type signature 14:57:52 fnord 14:58:05 :t foldl1' 14:58:07 forall a. (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> a 14:58:41 oh wait 14:59:09 > foldl1'(/=)<$>replicateM 5[False ..] 14:59:11 [False,True,True,False,True,False,False,True,True,False,False,True,False,Tr... 14:59:39 hey wait a moment... 14:59:56 > foldl1' xor<$>replicateM 5"01" 14:59:57 No instance for (Data.Bits.Bits GHC.Types.Char) 14:59:58 arising from a use of `D... 15:00:05 dammit 15:00:27 ais523: sadol is stupidly simple 15:00:29 nooga: If I wrote a brainfuck compiler i'd probably end up adding IO ports to it 15:00:40 forward polish notation, that's it 15:00:52 nooga: I guessed it was some sort of Polish, although I prefer reverse 15:00:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:00:56 zid: no no no, compiler targetting brainfuck 15:00:56 or rip out the core of my gameboy emulator and plug in brainfuck instead ;D 15:01:01 nooga: bwahah 15:01:04 just because I'm an incurable Underload-and-derivatvies fan 15:01:07 nooga: nicer idea 15:02:20 CP stands for concatenative programming, just like child porn 15:03:31 "child porn" also stands for "concatenative programming"??? 15:04:59 it seems that it does 15:05:06 I prefer just writing out the name in full 15:05:28 and although I like concatenative programming in general, there's something about Underload in particular that just clicks with me 15:05:44 http://www.h3rald.com/articles/concatenative-programming-in-ruby 15:05:52 > foldl1' xor<$>replicateM 5[0,1] 15:05:54 Add a type signature 15:06:07 grmbl 15:06:19 > foldl1' xor<$>replicateM 5[0,1::Int] 15:06:21 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1] 15:06:34 oerjan: your PhD theisis is about short haskell hacks? 15:06:36 why does lambdabot need type signatures? 15:06:49 ais523: ambiguous overloading 15:07:24 and no extend default flags set, probably 15:07:28 *extended 15:08:32 nooga: strangely not, i didn't know haskell at the time. i think i may have used a little perl while experimenting. 15:08:58 where we can read your PhD thesis? 15:09:37 it's not online 15:10:19 ;< 15:15:02 gosh 15:15:18 you probably even remember the walrus scam 15:15:44 vaguely 15:22:34 it's a shame many of these haskell hacks require a handful of import lines outside lambdabot 15:27:16 > filterM[const False,const True]"abcdef" -- another oldie 15:27:18 Couldn't match expected type `a -> m GHC.Bool.Bool' 15:27:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:27:25 :t filterM 15:27:27 forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] 15:28:08 > filterM[const[False],const[True]]"abcdef" 15:28:10 Couldn't match expected type `a -> m GHC.Bool.Bool' 15:28:19 grmbl 15:29:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:38:27 > filterM(const[False ..])"abcdef" 15:38:28 ["","f","e","ef","d","df","de","def","c","cf","ce","cef","cd","cdf","cde","... 15:38:41 > filterM(const[False ..])"abcd" 15:38:43 ["","d","c","cd","b","bd","bc","bcd","a","ad","ac","acd","ab","abd","abc","... 15:39:06 * oerjan thinks lambdabot is cutting rather short these days 15:40:32 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:42:19 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 15:43:20 !swedish ["","d","c","cd","b","bd","bc","bcd","a","ad","ac","acd","ab","abd","abc","... 15:43:21 ["","d","c","cd","b","bd","bc","bcd","a","ed","ec","ecd","eb","ebd","ebc","... Bork Bork Bork! 15:43:27 :D 15:51:16 -!- nooga has joined. 16:05:42 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:07:38 !help 16:07:38 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 16:07:45 !help languages 16:07:46 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 16:08:04 GregorR, if I made a patch to add erlang as a language to it, would you consider it? 16:08:14 Sure. 16:08:20 !info 16:08:20 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null 16:08:22 hm 16:08:25 Preferably an hg bundle. 16:08:43 GregorR, what erlang version do you have installed/available for installation on there? 16:08:53 * AnMaster hopes for R13B01. 16:08:54 None, I'll install one once I have a reason to :P 16:08:59 Whatever version is in Debian Testing. 16:09:10 GregorR, where do I find out what debian testing has? 16:10:23 packages.debian.org :P 16:10:48 uuuh it is split in several packages? 16:10:50 how confusing 16:11:29 That's a very Debian thing to do :P 16:11:43 i should prepare my personal webpage 16:12:23 nooga: http://codu.org/colormatch/ // USE THIS DO IT DO IT YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO 16:12:24 AnMaster: most likely info common to all versions, plus common version 16:12:28 *current version 16:12:29 GregorR, I'm not against it in general. For example gentoo splits the huge kdebase, kdeextra and such in individual packages for each program, like kwrite, konqueror, ... 16:12:58 but really erlang isn't large enough to motivate splitting it into 22 packages 16:13:05 if I read http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/erlang-nox correctly 16:13:11 oh and I guess the x11 one is even larger 16:13:15 at least two more packages 16:13:16 someone siad gentoo 16:13:24 the tk bindings and the wx bindings 16:13:34 ais523, what do you mean? 16:13:41 zid: You have "gentoo" highlighted? :P 16:13:50 I should 16:13:56 ais523, all of those are parts that do change with erlang version 16:13:58 AnMaster: Debian allow you to save disk space insanely if you want to 16:14:04 it seems 16:14:10 they changed all the copies of the GPL into symlinks to a common location to save space, for instance 16:14:20 ais523, erlang uses EPL though 16:14:44 GregorR-L: i know how to pick matching colors 16:14:45 (iirc the original tarball comes with one copy, that tarball includes all those packages....) 16:14:45 $ apt-cache search nethack | grep ^nethack | wc -l 16:14:46 7 16:14:59 see what I mean? You wouldn't have thought they could have split NetHack into 7 packages... 16:15:04 wow 16:15:16 one's the data files 16:15:20 ais523, um... I can think of a few splits nox/gtk/qt/x11? 16:15:22 the other 6 are 6 different interfaces 16:15:31 actually, not quite 16:15:33 not sure about gtk 16:15:37 but qt definitely 16:15:40 nooga: Well A) I don't so stop showing off :P, B) This picks a /variety/ of matching colors! :P 16:15:43 5 different interfaces, plus the Emacs mode for playing nethack-lisp 16:15:51 portage has 2, nethack and noegnud-nethack 16:16:03 AnMaster: the GTK one has been retired because it used Athena widgets 16:16:05 GregorR-L: i know how to pick my nose 16:16:13 and the Qt one has been broken for ages 16:16:19 ais523, athena... gtk... How are they related? 16:16:25 they aren't 16:16:25 aren't they different toolkits? 16:16:28 why do you think it was retired? 16:16:39 ais523, they could have *renamed* it instead? 16:17:04 but there's already an X version 16:17:07 and it used GTK too 16:17:14 just, GTK with Athena widgets 16:18:16 but why split out erlang-mnesia from erlang-base for example... There are no extra deps for mnesia. And mnesia itself isn't that large... 16:18:17 $ du -sh /usr/lib/erlang/lib/mnesia-4.4.10/ 16:18:18 1,8M /usr/lib/erlang/lib/mnesia-4.4.10/ 16:18:24 $ du -sh /usr/lib/erlang/lib/kernel-2.13.2/ 16:18:24 2,4M /usr/lib/erlang/lib/kernel-2.13.2/ 16:18:34 most ones are closer to 2 MB 16:18:37 AnMaster: so people can choose not to install it 16:18:40 oh and that includes the installed source... 16:18:59 ais523, not installing mnesia is pretty much guaranteed to break quite a few things... 16:19:17 yes, but not everything 16:19:27 things might want to use the other bits of Erlang, but not mnesia 16:19:33 Debian deps only install the bits you actually depend on 16:20:04 There's probably an "erlang" pseudopackage that pulls in all of them. 16:20:06 anyway, you save less than 1.8 MB.. (less because I have the source installed too, which would be reasonable to have in a separate package) 16:20:16 GregorR, erlang-nox 16:20:25 of course under portage, the source IS the package 16:20:45 zid: Gentoo is just LFS for pussies. 16:20:49 yep 16:20:53 exactly why it's so good 16:21:01 zid: No. The source is not the package. 16:21:09 Source+ebuild is the package. 16:21:17 the package contains source + build instructions 16:21:20 (or the binary package you can have emerge make) 16:21:24 ebuild is a good couple of hundered characters :> 16:21:24 zid, the reason you don't end up with tons of split variations like x11/nox in portage is the useflags 16:21:40 AnMaster: useflags <3 16:22:05 okay... they split out the docs as a separate meta-package 16:22:07 funny 16:22:29 also the deps doesn't make sense 16:22:45 they skip typer in the nox11, yet that is a completely command line app 16:23:45 what's typer? 16:24:06 tries (quite successfully) to infer erlang type specifications from the source code 16:24:29 And is linked against libXaw for no reason whatsoever :P 16:24:30 Hmm, not in portage, at least under 'typer' 16:24:56 okay... the debian typer package depends on dialyzer (correct, it is a part of dialyzer in fact...), and the dialyzer package depends on the Tk bindings... Fun thing is that dialyzer doesn't actually need those Tk bindings... it can use them optionally 16:25:02 zid, it is part of the erlang package 16:25:07 all of these are 16:25:08 ah right 16:25:25 and IMO the gentoo way is much saner here. 16:25:51 erlang package is 52.7MB, nice :P 16:26:22 GregorR-L, /usr/lib64/erlang/bin/typer is linked against libdl, libm and libc here 16:26:29 Saaaaaaaaaarcasm. 16:26:36 zid, that is the source code download yes 16:26:52 zid, depending on useflags (especially the doc one) it can be a lot smaller installed 16:27:14 * pikhq has doc enabled globally. 16:27:18 doc isn't set by default 16:27:25 * pikhq <3 documentation. ;) 16:27:39 ssl -doc -emacs -hipe -java -kpoll -obdc -sctp -smp -tk 16:27:44 I have the full thing installed except the java bindings and the odbc stuff (USE="doc emacs hipe kpoll sctp smp ssl tk wxwindows -java -odbc" for erlang) 16:27:48 and that is rather large yes 16:27:50 46.3MB 16:28:07 I don't have a wxwindows flag 16:28:08 $ du -sh /usr/lib/erlang/ 16:28:09 115M /usr/lib/erlang/ 16:28:29 (docs and sources installed, I develop a lot in erlang, that is why) 16:28:43 what version has a wxwindows flag? 16:28:47 none of mine do 16:28:51 zid, R13B and later 16:28:54 which is uh... 16:29:02 13.2 in portage 16:29:03 I think 16:29:05 12.2.5-r1 is latest in portage 16:29:10 overlay? 16:29:10 zid, sync then 16:29:11 how many esolangs does gentoo have in portage, btw? 16:29:16 13.2.1 is the latest in portage 16:29:19 and that is from the main tree 16:29:23 it is ~amd64 though 16:29:26 Oh, you're right 16:29:31 I know there's CIntercal... 16:29:32 the list was upside down 16:29:37 it goes 12.2, 13.2, .. 16:29:43 pikhq, thanks to me 16:29:44 pikhq: officially? I thought that was just AnMaster porting it as a side project 16:29:57 ais523, some dev accepted it... was as surprised as you are 16:30:19 I filed a bug with the ebuild in as half-joke/half-serious 16:30:20 wow 16:30:24 ais523: It's in portage. 16:30:40 YET THE EBUILD FOR THAT pygopherd WASN'T ACCEPTED 16:30:41 :( 16:30:42 I don't think there's any other esolangs in there. 16:31:25 was pygopherd a joke too? 16:31:29 Gentoo mostly accepts things which work correctly and have an active ebuild maintainer... 16:31:33 No brainfuck? 16:31:39 ah I know why the erlang dir is so large 16:31:42 I think gopher's mostly only used by zz038 nowadays 16:31:43 it isn't actually erlang itself 16:31:49 but some third party modules 16:31:56 esdl and wings 16:32:21 ais523: There's a small amount of people using it. 16:32:42 *zzo38 16:32:46 IIRC, Gopher support in Firefox was removed from 3.0, upsetting the few Gopher users out there. 16:32:57 zzo38 is one of them, yes. 16:33:02 ugh, really? 16:33:04 ais523, pygopherd wasn't a joke... I didn't think it would be accepted... but I was serious still.. 16:33:08 I bet all three of them were upset 16:33:20 zid, quite a few more. 16:33:22 I'm upset it isn't there, even if I hardly ever use it 16:33:29 I want to be able to see zzo38's pages, at least 16:33:40 ais523, use that http->gopher proxy 16:33:42 I've never used gopher once, i'm likkle 16:33:49 at floodgap iirc 16:33:59 link: http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/ 16:34:10 When I first used the Internet, Gopher and HTTP still kinda coexisted. 16:34:22 (Gopher wasn't to survive much longer, mind.) 16:34:49 pikhq, pretty sure gopher is still in ff3, but not in ff3.5 16:34:52 or something like that 16:35:12 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:35:34 AOL was already around when I first started using the interwebs 16:37:21 FF 3.5 seems to handle Gopher fine, and I recall 3.0 did as well. 16:37:37 gimmie a gopher uri 16:37:40 I wanna see 16:37:42 gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/ 16:37:55 my terminal doesn't even let me click that :p 16:38:03 zid: AOL is ancient. 16:38:11 seems to work in 3.5 16:38:46 for erlang in egobot I think somehow using escript for a wrapper would be best... erl is more advanced of course, but a bit cumbersome to use for short-running programs. 16:38:51 AOL goes back to 1989. 16:39:10 that doesn't sound right 16:39:32 Perhaps you're thinking of AOL for DOS, which is from '91? 16:39:47 Which is to say, *still older than WWW*? 16:39:57 * zid browses xkcd in gopher 16:40:01 haha 16:40:19 pikhq: I was refering more to it ruining the old internets by introducing the web to morons 16:40:28 zid, link? 16:40:49 ais523, I love how debian messed up erlang... libsctp is an optional dependency that makes sense to have optional. Yet on debian it isn't optional 16:41:08 zid: Ah, the Eternal September and the like. 16:41:10 that gopher link works fine in 3.0.11 16:41:11 AnMaster: it was linked from the frontpage of that gopher uri someone gave me 16:41:26 wait hm maybe it is 16:41:41 pikhq: exactly! 16:42:12 can't find it on floodgap? 16:42:13 AOL was slow on that. 16:42:24 weird, floodgap posted the tail of their server log as one of the pages 16:42:26 oh not in the link title 16:42:37 ais523, *shrug* 16:42:47 gopher CGI is silly enough, and posting your own server logs? 16:43:18 ais523, gopher cgi is common iirc 16:43:24 well, yes 16:43:29 as in, pretty sure pygopherd supports it too 16:43:32 works the same way as http 16:43:37 hm 16:43:55 best page on the intertubes is http://zid.yggdrasil.sk/cgi-bin/maze 16:44:03 floodgap use Bucktooth though 16:44:27 zid: your page? 16:44:30 yea 16:44:42 does that use NetHack's Gehennom code? 16:44:47 no, I wrote it 16:44:51 to look like gehennom 16:45:00 fair enough 16:45:02 I couldn't understand nethack's source it was.. awful 16:45:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:46:20 My gopher site runs using GOPHSERV (a gopher server I wrote myself). Most stuff is standard, but to play the hangman game on my gopher site the only client that works is Vonkeror (or you can write your own, it isn't that hard). 16:47:12 I can't find any file listing on http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/erlang-base 16:47:14 is there some command I can use to get you to appear in whatever channel I want? 16:47:19 URI? 16:47:49 zid: Nethack is old and crufty. 16:47:56 Grumpy is a HTTP+Gopher server, GOPHSERV is Gopher only. 16:47:58 it's pre ansi :( 16:47:59 zid: Its build system predates Autotools. 16:48:29 GregorR-L or GregorR: The !c one automatically adds some header/footer right? How does that work when you give it an url? 16:48:40 I think erlang will need something similar 16:48:46 !info 16:48:46 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null 16:48:50 AnMaster: It still automatically adds the header and footer. If that doesn't compile, it tries using it as a full file. 16:48:55 ah 16:48:59 AnMaster: It adds a footer, tries to compile it. If it errors out, it just compiles the full thing. 16:49:00 hrmph, it's hot so I have a fan on, and my ashtray keeps setting on fire now 16:49:03 AnMaster: See interps/gcccomp/gcccomp (something like that) 16:49:04 ... What he said! 16:49:24 zid: Where are you at? 16:49:37 And how hot is it? 16:49:46 england 16:49:48 (I need to know if I can just say "man up". :P) 16:49:48 err 16:50:06 the comparison never works 16:50:12 these are houses built to keep warmth 16:50:22 it's 26C 16:50:27 not that hot with the fan on 16:50:29 last night was worse 16:50:33 22C at 100% humidity 16:50:56 The US has a lot of houses built to handle extreme cold and extreme heat. 16:51:02 GregorR, Can you run it specially? As in, ./compiled-file won't work, nor will erl compiled-file, rather something like erl -run compiled_file_without_extension somefunction_in_said_file 16:51:09 Some parts of the country range from -10°F to 100°F... ;) 16:51:11 assuming the compiled file is in the current directory 16:51:22 if it isn't you need -pa path/where/it/is 16:51:24 what's that in real temperatures 16:51:28 But gawsh, 22°C? I envy you. 16:51:40 don't forget the 100% humidity 16:51:43 there was fog in my room 16:51:52 actually, making an escript-wrapper is probably saner 16:51:58 It's at 30°C right now, and that's lower than usual. 16:52:00 Which gopher server software do you think is better? 16:52:14 And Missouri has humidity from 70 to 100% generally. 16:52:25 do you have AC? 16:52:36 zzo38, I used pygopherd, quite decent. I heard Bucktooth was good too. 16:52:43 AnMaster: Again I say, see interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 16:52:44 hi zzo38; strangely, we were discussing Gopher servers before you arrived 16:52:54 I think he was summoned 16:53:00 I know that. I read the logs. 16:53:01 zid: I'd have to be mad not to. 40°C is not all that uncommon. 16:53:09 pikhq: then you can't compare it :P 16:53:36 Have you heard of Grumpy or GOPHSERV, those are two less common gopher servers 16:53:40 Sure I can. Last summer I went without AC. 16:53:51 (I was in Boston, not Missouri, but it has a similar climate) 16:53:53 in what kind of house, and what kind of temps are you used to 16:54:06 you can come here for the winter and have no heating if you lke 16:54:19 House designed for hard winters. 16:54:31 what strange weather you have 16:55:02 And I'm used to 0% humidity, 90°F being the *peak* temperature, averages from 70°F to 80°F in the summer. 16:55:05 GregorR, question about ulimit -u used there... What is the normal limit and how does this interact with threads? 16:55:23 (Colorado. Ah, 0% humidity, how I miss you so.) 16:55:28 !sh ulimit -a | fmt -w500 16:55:28 core file size (blocks, -c) 0 data seg size (kbytes, -d) unlimited scheduling priority (-e) 0 file size (blocks, -f) 10240 pending signals (-i) 16382 max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64 max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited open files (-n) 1024 pipe size (512 bytes, -p) 8 POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819200 real-time priority 16:55:43 size (kbytes, -s) 8192 cpu time (seconds, -t) 30 max user processes (-u) 1024 virtual memory (kbytes, -v) 131072 file locks (-x) unlimited 16:55:49 !sh ulimit -a | grep -e -u 16:55:50 max user processes (-u) 1024 16:55:58 hm 16:56:04 !sh cat /etc/passwd 16:56:04 /bin/cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory 16:56:11 !sh pwd 16:56:11 /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds 16:56:15 zid, it's in some jail sort of thingy iirc 16:56:29 !sh echo meow > test.txt 16:56:30 /tmp/input.18404: line 1: test.txt: Permission denied 16:56:54 zid: If you want to write files, try HackEgo. 16:57:01 GOPHSERV comes with three programs: gophserv, imgindex, txtbindb. gophserv reads a gopher request from stdin and sends the result to stdout. imgindex creates index files of directories, using a data file you specify which gives it instructions for how to do so. txtbindb converts text databases into binary databases. 16:57:03 `run echo I am the most hackable bot evars 16:57:04 I am the most hackable bot evars 16:57:12 `run cat /etc/passwd 16:57:13 No output. 16:57:19 `run pwd 16:57:20 /tmp/hackenv.18502 16:57:40 It's still jailed, it just allows you to write (some) files. 16:57:51 `run ulimit -a | grep -e -u 16:57:52 max user processes (-u) 128 16:58:11 `run ulimit -u unlimited 16:58:12 No output. 16:58:14 `run ulimit -a | grep -e -u 16:58:14 max user processes (-u) 128 16:58:15 `run uname -a 16:58:15 Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 16:58:22 `run ulimit -u unlimited; ulimit -a | grep -e -u 16:58:23 max user processes (-u) 128 16:58:24 hmmm.. 16:58:31 GregorR-L, started erlang to check... 6 threads started on a single-core system. One additional per CPU by default after that iirc. 16:58:48 The server is single-core :P 16:59:28 can I run gcc on it and things? 16:59:34 `run echo '!sh pwd' 16:59:34 !sh pwd 16:59:34 /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds 16:59:37 GregorR, right, if debian provides a build with no smp support at all (as opposed to "supported, but not enabled right now"), you get 2 threads by default it seems. 17:00:04 zid: Sure you can. 17:00:13 !c printf("See?\n"); 17:00:14 See? 17:00:29 why isn't /etc/passwd visible? 17:00:36 `run gcc --version 17:00:37 gcc (Debian 4.3.3-10) 4.3.3 \ Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. \ 17:00:40 ais523, zid, it's in some jail sort of thingy iirc 17:00:40 AnMaster: Doesn't matter, you have plenty of processes. 17:00:51 GregorR-L, yes, quite a few inside erlang :P 17:01:03 I mean, why deny that exact file? /etc/passwd is designed to be world-readable 17:01:04 (virtual ones, erlang does it's own scheduling...) 17:01:05 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 17:01:16 `run cat --version 17:01:17 cat (GNU coreutils) 7.4 \ Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Torbjorn Granlund and Richard M. Stallman. 17:01:21 AnMaster: So I don't anticipate issues. 17:01:27 1> length(processes()). 17:01:28 26 17:01:33 ais523: You think it's /cat/ that's limited??? lawl 17:01:39 GregorR-L: no 17:01:45 I just wanted to see its silly version string 17:01:53 limiting cat would not solve the problem at all 17:01:59 No, no it would not :P 17:02:28 `help 17:02:29 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 17:02:42 `run env | grep LD_ 17:02:43 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 17:02:54 no dcc? 17:02:58 `run whoami 17:02:58 No output. 17:03:00 oh wait, ignored 17:03:06 `run env | grep LD_PR 17:03:07 No output. 17:03:11 `run set 17:03:12 BASH=/bin/bash \ BASH_ARGC=() \ BASH_ARGV=() \ BASH_LINENO=() \ BASH_SOURCE=() \ BASH_VERSINFO=([0]="3" [1]="2" [2]="48" [3]="1" [4]="release" [5]="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu") \ BASH_VERSION='3.2.48(1)-release' \ DIRSTACK=() \ EUID=1126489 17:03:12 `run env | grep LD_ | wc -l 17:03:13 1 17:03:18 okay.. that's odd 17:03:24 `run file /lib/libc* 17:03:25 /lib/libc-2.9.so: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped \ /lib/libc.so.6: symbolic link to `libc-2.9.so' \ /lib/libcfont.so.0: symbolic link to `libcfont.so.0.0.0' \ /lib/libcfont.so.0.0.0: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, 17:03:26 `run yes 17:03:27 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 17:03:37 GregorR, why doesn't it dcc? 17:03:47 seems broken 17:03:54 AnMaster: Because ehird is a bitch. Also, since you can write files, I added a paste command. 17:04:05 GregorR-L, just ignore ehird 17:04:09 I prefer the DCC one 17:04:10 much better 17:04:14 `run /lib/libc-2.9.so | head 17:04:15 No, the paste is nice. Watcho: 17:04:15 GNU C Library (EGLIBC) stable release version 2.9, by Roland McGrath et al. \ Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. \ There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A \ PARTICULAR PURPOSE. \ Compiled by GNU CC version 4.3.3. \ Compiled 17:04:22 kay... 17:04:26 `run /lib/libc-2.9.so | paste 17:04:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22262 17:04:44 GregorR, you want to force me to start a browser? :( 17:04:55 AnMaster: Surely you have a browser in your emacs :P 17:05:01 `run yes | paste 17:05:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29473 17:05:04 (sorry) 17:05:06 err what 17:05:16 It limits it to 10M. 17:05:17 GregorR, what is the time limit 17:05:19 oh ok 17:05:46 `revert 55 17:05:47 Done. 17:06:14 GregorR, where does fetched files end up? 17:06:24 $PWD 17:06:27 `fetch http://omploader.org/vMXdjbQ 17:06:29 2009-06-29 16:06:29 URL:http://omploader.org/vMXdjbQ [1952144/1952144] -> "vMXdjbQ" [1] 17:06:38 `mv "vMXdjbQ" busybox 17:06:38 No output. 17:06:45 `chmod +x busybox 17:06:46 No output. 17:06:48 You might want to put that in bin. 17:06:50 But eh 17:06:56 Gracenotes, 64 bit right? 17:07:00 Yeah 17:07:10 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, statically linked, stripped 17:07:18 `./busybox 17:07:19 No output. 17:07:22 err why 17:07:29 AnMaster: Your mv command didn't work. Needed to be in run. 17:07:39 `run mv "vMXdjbQ" busybox 17:07:40 No output. 17:07:41 That command was mv '"vMXdjbQ" busybox' 17:07:46 (Previous one, that is) 17:07:46 `chmod +x busybox 17:07:47 No output. 17:07:51 That won't work either :P 17:07:52 `file busybox 17:07:53 busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped 17:07:56 `run chmod +x busybox 17:07:57 No output. 17:07:59 When you don't use run, everything else is /one/ argument. 17:07:59 `file busybox 17:08:00 busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped 17:08:05 `run ls -l busybox 17:08:07 -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 1952144 Jun 29 16:08 busybox 17:08:24 `run ./busybox | head 17:08:25 No output. 17:08:27 ... 17:08:31 GregorR, any idea? 17:08:34 I have no idea why that isn't working *shrugs* 17:08:36 it should output help 17:08:38 Suffice to say, goooo plash. 17:08:50 `run ./busybox ls 17:08:50 wait 17:08:50 No output. 17:08:52 let me try some more 17:08:56 I believe it can't output because it's not doing it through the proper channels. 17:09:10 GregorR-L: What, stdio? 17:09:13 Things not linked against glibc don't work because they're in a completely empty environment with no files. 17:09:30 (By which I mean, no files and no file descriptors) 17:09:32 ... You're doing crazy prelink stuff. 17:09:34 `run /lib/libc-2.9.so /usr/bin/env -i ./busybox 17:09:35 GNU C Library (EGLIBC) stable release version 2.9, by Roland McGrath et al. \ Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. \ There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A \ PARTICULAR PURPOSE. \ Compiled by GNU CC version 4.3.3. \ Compiled 17:09:38 AH. 17:09:39 um 17:09:44 that is *supposed* to work 17:09:45 iirc 17:09:46 pikhq: It's how plash works. 17:10:01 wait 17:10:03 AnMaster: I believe you're looking for /lib/ld-linux.so 17:10:07 indeed 17:10:14 `run file /lib/ld-linux.so 17:10:15 /lib/ld-linux.so: ERROR: cannot open `/lib/ld-linux.so' (No such file or directory) 17:10:19 ? 17:10:22 `run file /lib/ld* 17:10:22 /lib/ld-2.9.so: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, stripped \ /lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2: symbolic link to `ld-2.9.so' 17:10:24 ah 17:10:36 `run /lib/ld-2.9.so /usr/bin/env -i ./busybox 17:10:36 No output. 17:10:50 fff... 17:10:57 `run /lib/ld-2.9.so /usr/bin/env 17:10:58 No output. 17:11:00 ok 17:11:02 that is broken 17:11:09 `run /usr/bin/env 17:11:10 PLASH_FAKE_GID=5000 \ SHELL=/bin/bash \ TERM=screen \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.HackEgo \ IRC_NICK=AnMaster \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ USER=hackbot \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 17:11:22 `run /usr/bin/env -i env 17:11:23 No output. 17:11:28 `run /usr/bin/env -i /usr/bin/env 17:11:29 No output. 17:11:59 GregorR, does it only use the ld stuff or also some ptrace stuff? 17:12:01 I don't remember 17:12:15 It only uses a hacked glibc. No ptrace. 17:12:23 (Well, and chroot of course) 17:12:25 GregorR, so the libc in /lib is the hacked one? 17:12:33 As far as it can see, yes. 17:12:37 ah... 17:12:52 then we are down to doing something with syscalls directly I guess 17:12:53 It's not actually in /lib of course :P 17:13:01 GregorR, well yeah 17:13:10 does hackego has any asm thingy? 17:13:11 Right, the problem with that is that it's actually running in a nearly-empty chroot with no open file descriptors :P 17:13:15 So you're pretty stuck :P 17:13:18 AnMaster: Well, it has gcc *shrugs* 17:13:39 GregorR, I just hope to break into the chroot without phash basically 17:13:47 Sure sure. 17:13:48 `run uname -a 17:13:48 Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 17:13:57 Feel free to try, just please don't actually break anything if you succeed :P 17:14:40 GregorR, I saw that it disallowed the static binary there... but will it disallow syscalls where the instruction sequence for them are embedded directly into the binary in question 17:14:46 rather than going through libc 17:14:46 hm 17:14:59 I don't see how it could. 17:15:20 well it could use ptrace I guess 17:15:25 It doesn't. 17:15:26 * AnMaster goes to write a test program 17:16:08 I think the tricky bit is the lack of file descriptors more than anything else. 17:16:32 pikhq, it clearly disallowed the static busybox from running 17:16:39 Hmm. 17:16:43 as well as anything when environment was empty 17:24:15 -!- zzo38 has left (?). 17:25:02 `run uname -a 17:25:03 Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 17:25:13 `run cat /proc/cpuinfo 17:25:14 processor: 0 \ vendor_id : AuthenticAMD \ cpu family: 16 \ model: 2 \ model name: Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 2347 HE \ stepping: 3 \ cpu MHz: 1909.786 \ cache size : 512 KB \ physical id: 0 \ siblings: 1 \ core id: 0 \ cpu cores : 1 \ apicid: 0 17:29:28 ah found the syscall ABI docs 17:30:22 Ahhhh computer science: Where the phrase "First you need to kill all the children" is not only acceptable, but natural and obvious. 17:30:45 GregorR, killing them for what purpose 17:30:57 So they don't live unnecessarily 17:31:04 Well, you want to kill the parent process, and otherwise you have orphans in the process tree. 17:32:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:33:07 `run b=\' c=\\ a='echo -n b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a';echo -n b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a 17:33:07 b=\' c=\\ a='echo -n b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a';echo -n b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a 17:33:20 -!- zzo38 has left (?). 17:33:25 ............ well that was weird. 17:33:36 Shell quine 17:33:53 If you want a shell quine, make sure the output from HackEgo starts with !sh and the output from EgoBot starts with `run :P 17:34:03 >_< 17:34:11 a shell doublequine? 17:34:20 `run echo '!sh echo Lawl, forgot to prevent this' 17:34:20 !sh echo Lawl, forgot to prevent this 17:34:21 Lawl, forgot to prevent this 17:34:36 generally speaking, when doing botloops, I use thutubot as part of them so as to be able to end them easily 17:34:58 !sh echo `run echo Does it work the other way too? 17:34:58 /tmp/input.22111: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' 17:35:05 !sh echo '`run echo Does it work the other way too?' 17:35:06 `run echo Does it work the other way too? 17:35:06 Does it work the other way too? 17:35:34 `run echo '!sh fixt?' 17:35:34 !sh fixt? 17:35:36 !sh echo ^bf ++++++++++. 17:35:36 ^bf ++++++++++. 17:35:39 Erm, that's not a command :P 17:35:45 `run echo '!sh echo fixt' 17:35:46 !sh echo fixt 17:35:48 Is to fungot. 17:35:49 pikhq: state your quesiton 17:35:58 ^help 17:35:59 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 17:36:06 `ls 17:36:06 fungot will have to fix fungotself. 17:36:06 GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 17:36:06 bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22325 17:36:22 Wow, that was the most awesome phrase ever. 17:36:40 `addquote GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 17:36:41 GregorR-L: some brainfuck implementations use 8 bits per pixel there?) are impressively fast for what they like. 17:36:41 18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 17:36:42 HackEgo: i wrote text with fnord pressed enter and the wiki uploads? 17:36:46 `run echo '^bf ,[.,]!Does fungot ignore this?' 17:36:47 ^bf ,[.,]!Does fungot ignore this? 17:36:47 ais523: but still, presenting that face to the world of alcohol? why not just ( filter-unwanted " foobar" 17:36:48 Does fungot ignore this? 17:37:04 Wop wop :P 17:37:30 `run echo '^bf ,[.,]!`run echo test' 17:37:31 ^bf ,[.,]!`run echo test 17:37:31 `run echo test 17:37:32 test 17:37:37 >_> <_< 17:37:42 `run echo "!sh echo '`run cat foo'" > foo 17:37:43 No output. 17:37:46 `ls foo 17:37:47 No output. 17:37:54 `run ls 17:37:55 bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22627 17:38:05 `run echo "!sh echo '`run cat foo'" > foo; ls foo 17:38:06 No output. 17:38:24 `run ls tmpdir.22627 17:38:25 No output. 17:38:33 `run echo $@; 17:38:34 No output. 17:38:37 `ls 17:38:37 bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22848 17:38:38 `run echo "!sh echo '`run cat foo'" > tmpdir.22627/foo; ls tmpdir.22627 17:38:39 No output. 17:38:41 See how tmpdir changes? :P 17:38:43 D'oh 17:38:50 `run echo "!sh echo '`run cat foo'" > tmpdir.*/foo; ls tmpdir.* 17:38:50 No output. 17:39:02 02:09 GregorR: ehird: spoony == oerjan. Just FYI. 17:39:03 tmpdir.* is just mapped to /tmp btw 17:39:07 Therefore, oerjan is gay. QED. 17:39:18 ehird: Isn't spoony ... a woman? 17:39:22 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:39:23 `run a=$(mktemp); ls $a 17:39:23 /tmp/tmp.pXEqQEJLy5 17:39:29 `run X=\!sh Y=\`run b=\' c=\\ a='echo -n $X X=$c$Y Y=$c$X b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a'; echo -n $X X=$c$Y Y=$c$X b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a 17:39:30 !sh X=\`run Y=\!sh b=\' c=\\ a='echo -n $X X=$c$Y Y=$c$X b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a';echo -n $X X=$c$Y Y=$c$X b=$c$b c=$c$c a=$b$a$b\;; echo $a 17:39:38 Heh, saw that comin' :P 17:39:43 `run echo "!sh echo '`run cat foo'" > $(mktemp); ls /tmp/tmp.* 17:39:43 No output. 17:40:04 03:06 pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Shishou_riot Why was this not in the news? 17:40:07 why do you rely on the news? 17:40:08 That is what I was showing you I am glad you fixed it 17:40:09 `run a=$(mktemp); echo foo > $a; cat $a 17:40:10 foo 17:40:15 `ls /tmp 17:40:16 hackenv.23233 17:40:27 I got a working manual system call hm 17:40:32 03:17 pikhq: What you want is cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 end)), or somewhat different syntax in Haskell. :P 17:40:33 no 17:40:35 CPS 17:41:19 zzo38: Why did you part? Trying to flee the scene of the crime? :P 17:41:58 `run wget --version 17:41:59 GNU Wget 1.11.4 \ \ Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later \ . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Originally written by Hrvoje Niksic 17:42:09 No, I parted so that I could experiment with HackEgo privately without the channel messages on the screen, so that I could see more clearly what I was doing. 17:42:44 And then when the command worked, I rejoined to try it to see if it was fixed or not 17:42:59 12:38 AnMaster: I think I found a hidden 1 April joke by google this year: look http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=google.se 17:43:02 except it's not funny 17:43:09 ehird, did I claim it was 17:43:09 also http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=google.com 17:43:13 maybe swedes just suck at jokes 17:43:21 ehird, look at the .com one 17:43:22 13:22 nooga: Mac Pro, i want one 17:43:22 ehird: I know some very funny swedes :P 17:43:23 check the dates 17:43:24 mine! all mine! 17:43:31 i'm being pinged, cool 17:43:35 `run a=$(mktemp); wget -q tar.us.to/x -O $a; cat $a 17:43:36 No output. 17:43:37 ehird, as you can see the april ones have gone off the end 17:43:47 that is why you can't see if the .com one had that joke too 17:43:52 13:49 AnMaster: Mac Pro, i want one <-- you could get something more powerful for much less from anyone but Apple. ← uh huh, and where is this system more powerful than 2 x Nehalem Xeons and 16GB of RAM? cheaper, yes. more powerful? unlikely 17:44:01 13:49 GregorR: nooga: I have a mac pro, and I often have sex with it. Oh, would a good computer. 17:44:04 wood: a good computer 17:44:05 The !sh and `run quine was what I was originally thinking of at first back before when I wrote the first command at 08:59:34 17:44:09 oh log reading 17:44:10 sigh 17:44:16 * AnMaster ignores highlights 17:44:35 14:05 ais523: and although I like concatenative programming in general, there's something about Underload in particular that just clicks with me 17:44:37 because you wrote it :p 17:45:28 ehird: I generally write things /because/ I like the idea 17:46:04 15:33 zid: I bet all three of them were upset 17:46:05 15:33 AnMaster: zid, quite a few more. 17:46:06 whoosh 17:46:35 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:46:46 15:47 zid: is there some command I can use to get you to appear in whatever channel I want? 17:46:48 no, thank god :) 17:47:02 lol 17:47:04 actually, /invite works against some clients 17:47:08 but not against otheres 17:47:09 *others 17:47:19 Hahahah, auto-accept invites? 17:47:21 That's so ridiculous. 17:47:29 /invite #bearcave foo 17:47:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:48:03 There is a command to make PocketMonsterIRC appear in whatever channel you want. 17:48:35 `fetch http://omploader.org/vMXdjdg 17:48:36 2009-06-29 16:48:36 URL:http://omploader.org/vMXdjdg [378/378] -> "vMXdjdg" [1] 17:48:46 `run mv vMXdjdg asm-test.c 17:48:46 No output. 17:48:48 If anybody uses that command to bring PocketMonsterIRC here, they will suffer the wrath of many angry esoers :P 17:48:52 16:04 AnMaster: GregorR-L, just ignore ehird 17:48:52 16:04 AnMaster: I prefer the DCC one 17:48:54 16:04 AnMaster: much better 17:48:56 contrarian fun with anmaster 17:49:00 /invite #cannibalism zzo38 17:49:02 :P 17:49:11 `run gcc -o asm-test -std=c99 asm-test.c 17:49:12 No output. 17:49:14 err 17:49:16 `run gcc -o asm-test -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 17:49:22 No output. 17:49:26 `run ./asm-test 17:49:27 foo \ 17:49:31 okay 17:49:32 Underload is very purely concatenative programming. 17:49:37 I can make a direct syscall GregorR ^ 17:49:41 just a write one for testing here 17:49:45 AnMaster: I never claimed that you couldn't. 17:49:47 AnMaster: Of course you can. 17:49:53 GregorR, lets see if we can run that busybox binary this way! 17:49:55 17:39 GregorR-L: ehird: Isn't spoony ... a woman? 17:49:58 It doesn't block direct syscalls, it just makes them useless. 17:50:02 Spoony is oerjan and oerjan is male. 17:50:14 ehird: But spoony isn't actually oerjan :P 17:50:19 Therefore, from the set {spoony,Dylan} we can deduce gayness(oerjan) = 100% 17:50:24 Ahhhhhh 17:50:25 lawl 17:50:33 Also, gayness(Dylan) = 100% 17:50:54 GregorR, not if we can break out by running a static binary 17:51:07 Well, it won't work now anyways, because PocketMonsterIRC is not connected 17:51:10 allows breaking out of phash! 17:51:13 would be nice 17:52:01 The idea that you could singlehandedly break plash is amusing. 17:52:04 AnMaster: Like I said (sooo many times), it doesn't block direct syscalls, it just makes them useless by placing you in an empty chroot. 17:52:15 GregorR, yes, but this is still fun! 17:52:23 OK, feel free then :P 17:52:36 You haven't really broken out of anything though, you're just in a situation it already anticipated :P 17:53:11 what if someone breaks the chroot? 17:53:31 I should invent 2D-Underload (I already have some ideas) 17:53:35 Yes, that's a concern. But chroots are really not /that/ broken in general. 17:53:38 zzo38: have you seen Shove? 17:53:39 -!- nomaddave0987 has joined. 17:53:46 it isn't really Underload 17:53:56 Dave wanders into #esoteric, looking to hunt wild game... 17:53:56 If someone breaks out of a chroot, run screaming. 17:53:57 but Underload translates better into it than most other languages 17:54:17 Dave slowed slightly as his ears. 17:54:20 nomaddave0987: Haskell Nomads! 17:54:21 pikhq: there are all sorts of ways to break a chroot, but they mostly need root powers 17:54:24 He aims his bow at a wild ehird. Tragically, ehird never saw the nomadic hunter-gatherer. 17:54:29 *monadic 17:54:34 ais523: ... Ways of breaking out without root. 17:54:44 pikhq: Good luck 17:55:02 can you run plash inside plash? 17:55:07 Yeah. 17:55:11 WhyTF do people think I'd give root :P 17:55:13 It's happened before, but none of the ways of doing so work on anything newer than, oh, 2.4.10. 17:55:34 certainly, there's a well known way to break out of an outer chroot if you have an inner chroot inside it 17:55:38 somehow, I can't remember how it works 17:55:59 If you've got root, breaking out of a chroot is trivial. 17:56:06 I have idea 2D-Underload, it isn't really underload either but I have some ideas how it can work, the stack can contain 2D-strings now, is one idea 17:56:19 if you've got root, everything is trivial :P 17:56:19 pikhq: yes, specify the device by number, mknod it and mount it 17:56:23 (unlike a BSD jail) 17:56:40 ais523: Most Linux systems these days have devfs. 17:56:47 devfs? 17:56:48 Just mount /dev. 17:56:53 Erm. 17:56:53 ah, clever 17:56:57 Curses, it's udev. 17:56:59 There is a module for thing similar BSD jail in Linux too 17:57:08 devfs was a 2.4 thing. 17:57:17 udev <3 17:57:44 udev is made of unicorn farts 17:57:56 Start a udev daemon in your chroot. 17:57:56 Mounting a filesystem isn't /really/ breaking out of a chroot :P 17:57:57 Unicorn. farts. 17:58:08 It's breaking into a not chroot. 17:58:09 GregorR-L: you can now access everything outside it, though 17:58:13 Yeah. 17:58:13 if that isn't breaking, what is? 17:58:25 Actually disabling the chroot restrictions on your process? 17:58:31 i'd just remount root 17:58:33 easy 17:58:36 Oh, hey. chroots don't stack. 17:59:07 But they taste soooooooo good. 17:59:15 ah, ok, the trick is that if you have an inner chroot, something in the outer chroot can pass a handle to a directory between the chroots into the inner one 17:59:19 just mount root to /blah and chroot /blah :P 17:59:22 then the one inside can move outside the outer one using cd .. 18:00:17 ais523: Surely this can't be an extant bug? 18:00:20 strangely, the webpage I'm reading about this seems to assume that it can only be done using C or Perl 18:00:26 GregorR-L: I think it's deliberate 18:00:38 Better still. Chroot without changing into the dir you're chrooting into. 18:00:39 the idea is that you can take the parent directory of any directory but root 18:00:52 pwd is below the process's root. 18:01:09 ais523: The inner one, passed a directory handle from the outer one, should perhaps be able to chroot up into other dirs in the outer one, but not OUT of the outer one ... 18:01:19 So, you just do cd(".."); a lot and then chroot(".") 18:01:37 GregorR-L: Except that chroot's semantics are specified so that chroots don't stack. 18:01:37 GregorR-L: you'd need to know the chroot stack 18:01:43 Anyway, it's kind of irrelevant because you need chroot power to take advantage of it :P 18:01:44 and chroots don't stack 18:02:05 (Which is to say, root) 18:02:12 interestingly, FreeBSD blocked this attack by making it illegal to pass directory handles into a chroot (if you try, the chroot system call fails) 18:02:13 Yes. 18:02:20 which is a really weird place of the trick to block it 18:02:36 And we were discussing how it's trivial to break out of a chroot if you have root. 18:02:38 Well, plash passes /no/ handles in, so g'luck :P 18:03:09 pikhq: I thought we were discussing breaking out of HackEgo's chroot. 18:03:47 Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarlie .... 18:03:54 Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarlie ... 18:03:55 the idea would be to somehow create a second chroot inside plash 18:03:58 We're on a bridge, Charlie! 18:04:01 unfortunately, that generally needs root powers 18:04:08 GregorR-L: Which is likely impossible without some major kernel or plash bug. 18:04:32 what about just attempting to set your UID to root? 18:04:46 !c setuid(0); chroot("butt"); 18:04:46 ais523: ... And you need root to do that. 18:04:54 pikhq: maybe not 18:05:00 Linux remembers what UID a process started with 18:05:06 and you can always setuid to that 18:05:09 If you don't need root, that's a bug. 18:05:11 ais523: That would be the world's stupidest bug. 18:05:23 IMO, that's a bug, because it means there's no way to permanently drop root powers 18:05:30 but I suppose you can get round it by forking children 18:05:31 ais523: This is why you setuid(0) then fork(). 18:05:39 Erm. 18:05:41 setuid then fork. 18:05:44 setuid(!0) then fork 18:05:52 Except there /is/ a way to permanently drop root powers: root (and only root) can set both real and effective UID. 18:05:53 !0? 18:05:53 lol 18:06:05 Oh, right. So root can. 18:07:31 GregorR-L: no, that's what I'm saying, there are three UIDs, real, effective, original 18:07:44 at least, that's what the man page said (or was it info?) 18:07:48 when I read it, I thought it was on crack 18:07:57 Uhhh, no. I'm fairly certain that's not correct, or at least the original UID is kept only for informative purposes, and gives no real power. 18:08:05 "If the effective UID of the caller [of setuid] is root, the real UID and saved set-user-ID are also set." 18:08:16 There are three, though. 18:08:18 oh, only in a setuid process 18:08:22 that's /slightly/ less insane 18:08:25 but still, only slightly 18:08:37 as it still means setuid processes have no way to drop privileges 18:08:53 That's just not correct. There is absolutely no way that's correct. 18:08:58 That's a misunderstanding, I'm sure. 18:09:01 lol linux 18:09:10 ehird: That's POSIX. 18:09:14 lol posix 18:09:16 Huh? If the effective uid of the process calling setuid is 0, it will set all those three privileges and then it is impossible to regain root privileges. 18:09:18 OS X has the same. 18:09:25 (and that's retarded) 18:09:29 ok, but say I have a process that's setgid games 18:09:35 it has no way to permanently drop that setgid 18:09:39 pikhq: yeah, that's ridiculous 18:09:40 The setuid() function sets the real and effective user IDs and the saved set-user-ID of the current process to the specified value. The setuid() function is 18:09:40 permitted if the effective user ID is that of the super user, or if the specified user ID is the same as the effective user ID. If not, but the specified 18:09:40 user ID is the same as the real user ID, setuid() will set the effective user ID to the real user ID. 18:09:46 Note that setuid sets ALL THREE. 18:09:49 which means, that it can't just open the files it needs and then drop privileges 18:09:57 guys, let's lobby os makers to violate posix in this case! 18:10:19 GregorR-L: ah, I missed that bit 18:10:25 so you can change saved-suid as well 18:10:40 That bug would be too stupid to exist, I knew it couldn't be right :P 18:10:58 and it's presumably seteuid that doesn't mess with saved-suid 18:11:19 Yeah. 18:11:25 But seteuid doesn't drop anything. 18:11:31 Well, not in any permanent sense, that is. 18:12:04 seteuid(insert real UID here) would be a rather obvious way to permanently drop setuid powers 18:12:08 such a pity that it doesn't work 18:12:42 posix is hilariou 18:12:42 s 18:12:58 ooh, someone should tell the BSD people about the exploitable double-free bug in NetHack 18:13:12 bsd is also hilarious, the whole "let" 18:13:12 I'm just reading the BSD essay on game security 18:13:18 "'s have one big team maintain EVERYTHING" 18:13:23 "in ONE TREE" 18:13:30 Actually "Under Linux, setgid() is implemented like the POSIX version with the _POSIX_SAVED_IDS feature. This allows a set-group-ID program that is not set-user-ID-root to drop all of its group privileges, do some un-privileged work, and then re-engage the original effective group ID in a secure manner." Based on that I'd say just saying setgid or setuid is not enough to permanently drop privileges when you're some non-root setuid/setgid-file process. 18:13:51 they also said that games shouldn't have write power to their own executables, which makes sense 18:13:57 and is another reason to make them setgid not setuid 18:14:15 i think the whole "another user/group so people don't tamper with scores" is silly 18:14:24 it doesn't really help anything 18:14:27 ehird: I don't 18:14:38 well, I managed to corrupt the Minesweeper high score table once on a Windows box 18:14:45 we accidentally wrote the wrong username next to a pretty good high score 18:14:51 so attempted to fix it in the registry 18:14:52 on a single-user machine, you can fuck them up anyway. on a multi-user machine, you can get the admin to fuck them up. there's no verification or anything. 18:14:54 it's useless 18:14:59 it seems it's checksummed and Minesweeper went mad 18:15:01 ais523: lol 18:15:07 and we had to revert the registry (the whole thing!) to a backup 18:15:15 at least you backed up 18:15:20 How many times do you have to hear the expression "bit-shift" before it becomes "bitch-ift"? 18:15:21 i _still_ don't back up 18:15:22 Windows does automatically 18:15:22 Ah, Windows. 18:15:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:15:32 except it reverts your program files directory at the same time 18:15:42 user-friendliness, you see 18:15:42 i'm very happily lucky with mechanical disks 18:15:43 GregorR-L: Bitſhift, you mean? 18:15:51 ais523: you mean system restore? 18:15:54 yes 18:16:09 it does work to fix borked changes to Minesweeper high score tables 18:17:02 This package does not yet support security hardening by giving each setgid game its own gid, but in some environments you may wish to do this. 18:17:15 wait, not FreeBSD 18:17:16 just BSD generally 18:17:33 I'm reading the BSD advice file on game security that ended up in the Debian BSD-games package 18:17:45 what's slightly more worrying is that I have previously met, in RL, the person who wrote it 18:17:56 ais523: not BSD "generally" 18:17:57 just BSD 18:18:01 well, ok 18:18:02 before all the derivatives, I assume 18:18:06 ais523: who wrote it? 18:18:14 Joseph Myers 18:18:17 Escriba el this is a linux forum 18:18:26 nomaddave0987: no. ##linux 18:18:43 AnMaster: adding "esoteric programming" to the topic sure has stopped 2-3 non-esolangers coming in lately huh 18:18:51 statistically, we're doing worse! 18:19:01 :P 18:19:05 Touché, sir. 18:19:14 Not as odd as people coming in for spiritual esotericism. 18:19:21 Yes. 18:19:21 magick. with a k!!!!!! 18:19:25 the k means arkane 18:19:26 ok..mm.. ho.. its because I follow your conversation and i try to understand what about talk about 18:19:32 ehird, did any of them read the topic... 18:19:35 nomaddave0987: esoteric programming languages 18:19:39 if not, that is the issue 18:19:40 AnMaster: if they don't, does it help anyway? nope 18:19:42 nomaddave0987: Admittedly we're sort of off topic :P 18:19:45 and then nothing will help indeed 18:19:51 !bftxtgen Like this. 18:19:54 yeah I read.. but my englisgh is my second languaje.. 18:19:55 * pikhq fails 18:19:58 pikhq: !bf_txtgen 18:20:00 pikhq: you missed an underscore 18:20:04 hey guys 18:20:06 did pikhq miss an underscore 18:20:10 i think he meant bf_txtgen 18:20:10 !bf_txtgen Like this. 18:20:10 ehird, however I suspect we need to collect more data on this before giving a definite answer 18:20:12 128 +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>>+.>.++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.>>+++++++++.<+++.+.>-.<<++++++++++++++.<-----. [115] 18:20:12 ehird: IDONNO, MAYBE 18:20:24 ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>>+.>.++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.>>+++++++++.<+++.+.>-.<<++++++++++++++.<-----. 18:20:24 Like this.. 18:20:26 also what was the frequency during the same period one year ago? 18:20:38 are there more in the summer for example 18:20:40 `echo ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>>+.>.++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.>>+++++++++.<+++.+.>-.<<++++++++++++++.<-----. 18:20:41 ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>>+.>.++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.>>+++++++++.<+++.+.>-.<<++++++++++++++.<-----. 18:20:42 Like this.. 18:20:45 ehird, :P 18:20:51 AnMaster: you just gotta accept the crazies and the confused. they're natural 18:21:09 ehird, It was GregorR who added it originally to the topic 18:21:10 also, ais523: did you read on proggit? they've made a solid-state quantum processor with two qubits 18:21:15 so why are you attacking me 18:21:15 kept them entangled for a microsecond 18:21:17 I didn't read that 18:21:21 although, that is progress 18:21:25 AnMaster: you're the one who argued it with me :P 18:21:33 why is called esoteric programming languajes? .. can you do some kind of magik.. with computers? 18:21:33 ehird, in general yes :P 18:21:38 ais523: it operates at less than 1 kelvin above 0 18:21:39 :-P 18:21:53 nomaddave0987: no, because they're rather different from mainstream programming languages 18:21:53 nomaddave0987, no, the same word has different meanings in different contexts. 18:21:56 nomaddave0987: No, you can't do any magic full stop because there's no such thing. Esoteric programming languages are weird ones like Brainfuck. 18:22:10 or INTERCAL 18:22:20 ehird: no magic? how am I going to get my halting oracle now? 18:22:32 an example? 18:22:44 nomaddave0987: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck 18:23:00 ais523: prove that the Entscheidungsproblem is actually solvable 18:23:00 ! 18:23:01 :-P 18:24:49 wouu.. very minimal... 18:24:58 in some point.. is philoshopic 18:25:08 and geometric 18:25:13 ...for some definitions of philosophical and geometric 18:25:47 geometric, I don't get, although I sort-of know what you mean by philosophical here 18:26:00 http://bill.wards.net/blosxom/humor/story/feynman.html You have three hours. You may use your notes and Feynman. 18:26:27 pikhq: <3 18:26:30 i hope it's true 18:26:33 http://www.explosm.net/comics/1699/ // lawl 18:26:39 .. is most like pogrammming circuits 18:26:48 but in letters.. logic 18:28:16 i readed about the INTERCAL.. and basi has the same basic strcutures to make a sentece.. but is represented by symbols 18:28:57 Yeah, INTERCAL is one of the languages we sometimes talk about here. 18:29:10 But mostly GregorR-L just makes innuendos. 18:29:27 It's what I do. 18:29:38 GregorR-L: That's what you said about your mom. 18:29:44 *smoooooooooooooth* 18:30:57 i wonder if Logic Studio still requires the obnoxious dongle they did in the windows days 18:37:31 -!- comex_ has changed nick to comex. 18:45:41 -!- nomaddave0987 has left (?). 18:46:09 -!- Pthing has joined. 18:46:30 Pthing's a pthing 18:46:31 -!- augur has joined. 18:47:19 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:51:33 `run l 18:51:34 No output. 18:51:34 `run ls 18:51:36 asm-test \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.25907 18:51:43 `fetch http://omploader.org/vMXdkYw 18:51:44 2009-06-29 17:51:43 URL:http://omploader.org/vMXdkYw [444/444] -> "vMXdkYw" [1] 18:52:01 Oooh, aaah 18:52:03 `run mv vMXdkYw asm-test.c 18:52:04 No output. 18:52:21 `run gcc -o asm-test -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 18:52:22 No output. 18:52:31 `run ./asm-test busybox 18:52:32 No output. 18:52:35 huh? 18:52:42 `run ./asm-test /bin/ls 18:52:42 No output. 18:52:48 `run /bin/ls 18:52:49 asm-test \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.26162 18:52:52 `run ./asm-test /bin/ls 2>&1 18:52:52 No output. 18:52:55 GregorR, ok, now I am confused... 18:52:58 * GregorR-L has no explanation. 18:53:07 GregorR, it must do something more than just replace libc 18:53:17 `file asm-test 18:53:17 asm-test: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped 18:53:23 `run cat asm-test.c 18:53:24 #define _GNU_SOURCE \ #include \ \ volatile char *en[] __asm__("en") = {NULL}; \ volatile char *ar[] __asm__("ar") = {NULL,NULL}; \ \ int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { \ar[0] = argv[1]; \// Syscall execve = 59 \// execve(argv[1],ar,en); \// syscall(59, ar[0], ar, en); \asm volatile 18:53:24 `run ldd -r asm-test 18:53:25 No output. 18:53:47 `run ldd /bin/ls 18:53:48 No output. 18:53:56 GregorR, ldd is brken? 18:54:03 `run file /bin/ls 18:54:04 /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped 18:54:05 `run which ldd 18:54:06 oh wait 18:54:06 /usr/bin/ldd 18:54:09 not odd 18:54:12 if you can't run ld 18:54:22 ldd sets some env vars then runs ld-linux.so 18:54:27 or whatever the name is 18:54:47 so ldd of course won't work GregorR ^ 18:54:54 *eh* 18:55:00 `run nm bb-wrap 18:55:00 No output. 18:55:05 `run type nm 18:55:06 nm is /usr/bin/nm 18:55:11 "Intel's 32nm Clarkdale CPUs moved up to Q4, a full year ahead of AMD?" 18:55:13 `run nm /bin/ls 18:55:14 No output. 18:55:16 err 18:55:17 what 18:55:23 yay 6 core chips 18:55:25 32nm1 18:55:27 *32nm! 18:55:27 `run which nm 18:55:28 /usr/bin/nm 18:55:30 now THAT I can't explain 18:55:38 `run /usr/bin/nm /usr/bin/nm 18:55:39 No output. 18:55:42 `run /usr/bin/nm -D /usr/bin/nm 18:55:43 U _IO_putc \ w _Jv_RegisterClasses \ U __assert_fail \ 000000000060989c A __bss_start \ 00000000006098a0 B __environ \ U __errno_location \ w __gmon_start__ \ U __libc_start_main \ U __strdup \ U 18:55:45 hm ok 18:55:45 `run nm /bin/ls 2>&1 18:55:45 "Intel launching cheaper SSDs with up to 320GB capacity in two weeks?" 18:55:46 /usr/bin/nm: /bin/ls: no symbols 18:55:47 omg, yes please. 18:55:49 two birthdays in one! 18:55:50 AnMaster: ^. 18:55:54 ah 18:56:01 yes -D of course 18:56:14 `run nm -D asm-test 2>&1 18:56:15 w __gmon_start__ \ U __libc_start_main 18:56:23 `run nm -D asm-test 2>&1 | wc -l 18:56:24 2 18:56:27 huh 18:56:33 THAT'S weird. 18:56:33 `run rm asm-test 18:56:34 No output. 18:56:37 `run ls 18:56:38 asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.26975 18:56:48 `run gcc -o asm-test -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 2>&1 18:56:54 18:56:55 Erm 18:56:57 `run gcc -o asm-test -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 2>&1 18:56:58 No output. 18:57:01 *shrugs* 18:57:17 `run ls 18:57:18 asm-test \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.27075 18:57:23 `run nm -D asm-test 18:57:24 w __gmon_start__ \ U __libc_start_main 18:57:31 -!- Pthing has joined. 18:57:31 okay... 18:57:39 * GregorR-L files that under "confusing" 18:59:37 `fetch http://omploader.org/vMXdkZQ 18:59:38 2009-06-29 17:59:38 URL:http://omploader.org/vMXdkZQ [776/776] -> "vMXdkZQ" [1] 18:59:58 `run mv "vMXdkZQ" asm-test.c 18:59:58 No output. 19:00:01 `run ls 19:00:02 asm-test \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.27242 19:00:16 `run gcc -o asm-test -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 19:00:17 No output. 19:00:31 `run ./asm-test ./busybox 19:00:32 foo \ 19:00:35 ok 19:00:38 so the first syscall worked 19:00:43 the one that did a write 19:00:51 then the execve syscall failed hm 19:01:00 `run nm -D ./asm-test 19:01:01 w __gmon_start__ \ U __libc_start_main 19:01:09 `run gcc -o asm-test -ggdb3 -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 19:01:10 No output. 19:01:12 `run nm ./asm-test 19:01:13 00000000006006e0 d _DYNAMIC \ 0000000000600888 d _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_ \ 00000000004005f8 R _IO_stdin_used \ w _Jv_RegisterClasses \ 00000000006006c0 d __CTOR_END__ \ 00000000006006b8 d __CTOR_LIST__ \ 00000000006006d0 D __DTOR_END__ \ 00000000006006c8 d __DTOR_LIST__ \ 00000000004006b0 r __FRAME_END__ 19:01:14 `run exec /bin/ls 19:01:15 asm-test \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.27515 19:01:16 `run nm -D ./asm-test 19:01:16 w __gmon_start__ \ U __libc_start_main 19:01:37 wow, the arial glyph to l is actually identical to that of I 19:01:38 pixel-for-pixel 19:02:43 `run gcc -o asm-test.S -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 19:02:44 No output. 19:02:52 `run paste asm-test.S 19:02:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3502 19:02:53 err 19:02:57 `run gcc -o asm-test.S -S -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 19:02:58 No output. 19:02:59 `run paste asm-test.S 19:03:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14348 19:03:49 GregorR, see anything strange there? 19:04:04 ( I don't) 19:04:38 `run env | grep PH 19:04:39 No output. 19:04:44 `run env 19:04:45 PLASH_FAKE_GID=5000 \ SHELL=/bin/bash \ TERM=screen \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.HackEgo \ IRC_NICK=AnMaster \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ USER=hackbot \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 19:05:04 ah plash not phash 19:05:06 heh 19:05:19 wait, clarkdale is a consumer cpu 19:06:01 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:07:13 "We just got all new Phenom II X2 550 3.1GHz systems and they beat the crap out of the old Intel Pentiums." 19:07:19 AMD Phenom II: It's faster than Pentium. 19:10:01 GregorR, hm... it is possible it actually ran but no output could be captured... not sure 19:10:07 Who knows. 19:10:20 it seems plash does all sort of tricks to be able to handle exec* 19:10:22 ehird: lol. "Duh" :P 19:10:25 http://plash.beasts.org/wiki/ExecutableObjects 19:10:52 GregorR-L: It's proof that AMD _can_ be faster than Intel! 19:10:59 X-P 19:11:15 GregorR-L: stop it with that smiley, you're giving me flashbacks to Windows 19:11:23 I NOZE 19:11:26 That's why it's so awesome. 19:11:30 ais523: windows stole XP. 19:11:34 Windows XP was named after the faces of its users. 19:11:37 i remember thinking it was a fucking dick move. 19:11:40 ehird: yes, quite possibly 19:11:42 who had it before? 19:11:48 ais523: the interwebs 19:11:55 ais523: He's referring to the smiley :P 19:12:29 GregorR, what version of plash are you using 19:12:50 `run pola-run --version 19:12:51 pola-run: error: Unrecognised argument: --version 19:12:54 >_< 19:13:15 `run dpkg-query -W plash 19:13:16 No output. 19:13:21 Idonno if that should work or not :P 19:13:24 `run dpkg-query -W plash 2>&1 19:13:25 dpkg-query: failed to open package info file `/var/lib/dpkg/status' for reading: No such file or directory 19:13:30 GregorR-L, that is why 19:13:32 Womp womp 19:13:38 OK, I'll check 19:13:41 thanks 19:13:59 1.19-1lenny1 19:15:35 `run ls /sbin 19:15:36 No output. 19:15:41 `run ls /bin 19:15:42 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less \ lessecho \ lessfile 19:15:44 `run ls /bin/*cap* 19:15:45 No output. 19:15:48 `run ls /usr/bin/*cap* 19:15:49 /usr/bin/captoinfo \ /usr/bin/debconf-escape \ /usr/bin/infotocap \ /usr/bin/run-mailcap 19:15:52 ... 19:15:57 `run ls /usr/sbin 19:15:58 accessdb \ add-shell \ addgroup \ adduser \ arp \ arpd \ biosdecode \ chgpasswd \ chpasswd \ chroot \ cpgr \ cppw \ cron \ cytune \ defoma-reconfigure \ delgroup \ deluser \ dmidecode \ dpkg-divert \ dpkg-preconfigure \ dpkg-reconfigure \ dpkg-statoverride \ fdformat \ filefrag \ groupadd \ groupdel \ groupmod \ grpck \ grpconv 19:16:05 `run ls /usr/sbin/*cap* 19:16:05 No output. 19:16:07 meh 19:16:13 probably not available inside 19:16:41 ls /proc/self 19:16:44 `run ls /proc/self 19:16:45 attr \ auxv \ cgroup \ clear_refs \ cmdline \ coredump_filter \ cpuset \ cwd \ environ \ exe \ fd \ fdinfo \ io \ limits \ loginuid \ maps \ mem \ mountinfo \ mounts \ mountstats \ net \ oom_adj \ oom_score \ pagemap \ root \ sched \ sessionid \ smaps \ stat \ statm \ status \ task \ wchan 19:17:22 `run ls /proc/self/fd 19:17:23 0 \ 1 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 2 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 27 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 19:17:29 `run ls -l /proc/self/fd | paste 19:17:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20342 19:17:53 `run ls -l /proc/self/cwd 19:17:54 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 0 Jun 29 18:17 /proc/self/cwd -> /tmp/hackenv.28535 19:18:00 hm 19:18:42 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:21:10 -!- Pthing has joined. 19:21:38 `fetch http://omploader.org/vMXdkaA 19:21:39 2009-06-29 18:21:39 URL:http://omploader.org/vMXdkaA [740/740] -> "vMXdkaA" [1] 19:21:43 `ls 19:21:44 asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.28613 \ vMXdkaA 19:21:52 `mv vMXdkaA asm-test.c 19:21:53 No output. 19:21:58 `run mv vMXdkaA asm-test.c 19:21:59 No output. 19:22:15 `run gcc -o asm-test -O0 -std=gnu99 asm-test.c 2>&1 19:22:16 No output. 19:22:32 `run echo $PWD 19:22:33 /tmp/hackenv.28793 19:22:33 `run echo $PWD 19:22:34 /tmp/hackenv.28834 19:23:02 `run ./asm-test ${PWD}/busybox 19:23:03 foo \ 19:23:07 what 19:23:11 `run ./asm-test xxx 19:23:12 foo \ 19:23:15 no way 19:23:52 GregorR, this means that the exec call never returns, even when the relevant file doesn't exist. 19:25:36 `run ./asm-test xxx; echo a 19:25:37 foo \ 19:25:43 `run echo a; echo a 19:25:43 a \ a 19:25:46 ok... 19:25:49 `run ./asm-test xxx & echo a 19:25:50 foo \ 19:25:52 err 19:25:59 `run echo ab & echo c; 19:26:00 ab \ c 19:26:09 `run (sleep 1; echo ab) & echo c 19:26:11 c \ ab 19:26:21 `run (sleep 1; ./asm-test xxx) & echo c 19:26:22 c \ foo \ 19:26:25 hm 19:27:22 GregorR, conclusion: once asm-test was executed, (even with &) nothing after it was executed in fact! 19:27:34 `run env 19:27:34 PLASH_FAKE_GID=5000 \ SHELL=/bin/bash \ TERM=screen \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.HackEgo \ IRC_NICK=AnMaster \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ USER=hackbot \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 19:27:37 `run env | paste 19:27:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26027 19:28:25 Weirditude. 19:28:45 `ls /usr/ 19:28:46 X11R6 \ bin \ games \ include \ lib \ lib64 \ local \ sbin \ share \ src 19:28:57 `ls /usr/lib/plash 19:28:58 gc-uid-locks \ lib \ run-as-anonymous 19:29:01 `ls /usr/lib/plash/lib 19:29:02 libBrokenLocale.so.1 \ libSegFault.so \ libanl.so.1 \ libc.so.6 \ libcrypt.so.1 \ libdl.so.2 \ libm.so.6 \ libmemusage.so \ libnsl.so.1 \ libnss_compat.so.2 \ libnss_dns.so.2 \ libnss_files.so.2 \ libnss_hesiod.so.2 \ libnss_nis.so.2 \ libnss_nisplus.so.2 \ libpcprofile.so \ libpthread.so.0 \ libresolv.so.2 \ librt.so.1 19:29:13 `ls /usr/bin/p* 19:29:14 No output. 19:29:21 `run ls /usr/bin/p* 19:29:21 /usr/bin/pager \ /usr/bin/paperconf \ /usr/bin/partx \ /usr/bin/passwd \ /usr/bin/paste \ /usr/bin/pathchk \ /usr/bin/pcretest \ /usr/bin/pdb \ /usr/bin/pdb2.5 \ /usr/bin/pdf2dsc \ /usr/bin/pdf2ps \ /usr/bin/pdffonts \ /usr/bin/pdfimages \ /usr/bin/pdfinfo \ /usr/bin/pdfopt \ /usr/bin/pdftoabw \ /usr/bin/pdftohtml 19:29:31 `run type pola-run 19:29:32 pola-run is /usr/bin/pola-run 19:29:36 `run ls /usr/bin/pola* 19:29:37 /usr/bin/pola-run 19:29:40 `run ls /usr/bin/pla* 19:29:40 /usr/bin/plash-pkg-choose \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-deb-inst \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-fetch \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-install \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-launch \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-unpack \ /usr/bin/plash-pkg-update-avail 19:29:48 `run ls /usr/bin/*ker* 19:29:48 /usr/bin/podchecker 19:30:01 `run ls /usr/*bin/*ker* 19:30:02 /usr/bin/podchecker 19:30:06 `run ls /bin/*ker* 19:30:07 No output. 19:30:07 oh well 19:30:38 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:30:45 !bf_txtgen WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 19:30:47 83 ++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>---.>++.+++++++...<++...>....<........>..>. [710] 19:30:48 `ls /proc/self 19:30:49 attr \ auxv \ cgroup \ clear_refs \ cmdline \ coredump_filter \ cpuset \ cwd \ environ \ exe \ fd \ fdinfo \ io \ limits \ loginuid \ maps \ mem \ mountinfo \ mounts \ mountstats \ net \ oom_adj \ oom_score \ pagemap \ root \ sched \ sessionid \ smaps \ stat \ statm \ status \ task \ wchan 19:30:59 !bf_txtgen WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 19:31:01 84 +++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>-.-----.+++++++.....>+....<..>..<......>.>-. [511] 19:31:03 `run ls /proc/self/*cap* 19:31:04 No output. 19:31:43 ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>---.>++.+++++++...<++...>....<........>..>. 19:31:43 WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. 19:32:02 What a strange thing to say :P 19:32:36 !bf ++++++++++[>++++++++>>+++++++>+<<<<-]>++.+++++++.>>-............................... 19:32:36 RYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 19:32:36 the bit at the end is rather interesting 19:32:50 !bf_txtgen 11111111111111111111111122222222222222222222222222333333333333333333333333 19:32:53 184 ++++++++++++[>++++>++++>++++>++++<<<<-]>+....>+.>+.....<...>..>+......<...+..<+..>...<...............>..<..+........>>++...<<.<++...>.........-----------------------------------------. [724] 19:33:05 WTF 19:33:15 That end is severely weird ... oh wait, newline??? 19:33:20 there's a neat deficiency of bf_txtgen for you 19:33:27 not just the newline, the rest of it is really weird too 19:33:32 brb... 19:33:49 Well, yeah, I think it's pretty well understood that it doesn't do runs well. 19:35:34 19:32 GregorR-L: What a strange thing to say :P 19:35:41 WRY{lots,} is a meme. 19:35:48 ???SRSLY??? 19:35:58 Also, you just said WRYlots WRY 19:36:03 yes, it's from some weird game. 19:36:16 How do you feel today? 19:36:17 http://encyclopediadramatica.com/ZA_WARUDO 19:36:18 WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 19:36:34 GregorR-L: even using the system it uses, something like >++++>++++>++++>+ in the main loop would have been more expected 19:36:43 for the newline 19:37:58 It's pronounced "reee"??? 19:38:04 But ... "wry" is actually a word ... 19:38:10 Not in Japan! 19:38:38 "wry" is a braindead translation most likely by an American 19:39:05 Deewiant: "Translation"? 19:39:12 It's... not a fucking word, as far as I can tell. 19:39:15 Transliteration. 19:39:20 ehird: In fact, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure was not originally in English! 19:39:27 No shit. 19:45:24 `run capsh --rpint 19:45:24 No output. 19:45:27 `run type capsh 19:45:28 No output. 19:45:32 print* too btw 19:51:07 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:51:46 `run ls /var/lib/plash-chroot-jail 19:51:47 No output. 19:51:51 `run ls /var/lib/ 19:51:51 No output. 19:51:54 `run ls /var/ 19:51:55 No output. 19:51:56 `run ls / 19:51:57 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr 19:52:01 hm... 19:52:04 GregorR-L: Do you think he'll get the hint that it's effectively unbreakable eventually? 19:52:23 `run which eject 19:52:24 No output. 19:52:33 haha 19:52:41 hm 19:52:42 ejecting the cd rom drive of a lonely server 19:52:43 eject famously used to contain a race condition that let you get root privileges 19:52:50 although that was fixed ages ago 19:52:51 `run df 19:52:51 No output. 19:52:55 probably before Linux even existed, tbh 19:52:55 `run df 2>&1 19:52:56 /bin/df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 19:52:56 oh, i thought you were being sillier than that 19:53:00 Tch 19:53:18 GregorR, I think I know what the issue is... is the chroot where it is in empty in reality, but readdir/open/whatever calls are patched to go somewhere else? 19:53:45 "issue" 19:53:50 You mean feature. 19:53:58 ehird, issue with making asm-test work 19:54:03 anyway I got an idea for how to work around it 19:54:03 :D 19:55:13 it rather abuses some linux specific features 19:57:08 ehird: an issue with attempts to crack out of a sandbox /is/ a feature 19:57:28 ais523, it is in a chroot too, so that is pointless 19:57:35 ais523: well, yeah 19:57:46 I just want to be able to executed a statically linked binary inside the chroot 19:57:49 that is my goal 19:58:20 wth, glibc removed it's viewvc thingy? 19:58:21 AnMaster: I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally thought I explained that to you :P 19:58:32 GregorR, it can't be done+ 19:58:32 AnMaster: The hacked glibc provides fake "syscalls" 19:58:38 yes right 19:58:42 AnMaster: why not send the statically linked binary in via a pastebin, and then run it? 19:58:47 but I want to execute a statically linked busybox in there 19:58:52 ais523, it is in there... 19:58:54 `ls 19:58:55 asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.30622 19:58:55 AnMaster: Boo hoo? :P 19:58:59 ais523, just can't be run 19:59:28 GregorR-L, current plan: open and read the file in. then mprotect() stuff to execute it 19:59:42 or actually 19:59:44 fexecve 19:59:50 if I can find how it is implemented 19:59:53 it *might* be useful 20:00:41 ˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀˀ 20:02:45 -!- olsner has joined. 20:03:55 ¡ 20:05:10 . 20:05:10 meh no 20:05:13 ↑ not a .! 20:05:19 it just uses /proc/self/fd 20:05:19 ⸘ 20:05:55 WTF?! 20:06:00 There's an upside-down interrobang?! 20:06:05 Idonno how to type it! :( 20:06:05 Yes. 20:06:09 U+2E18 20:06:19 ⸘Que‽ 20:06:35 In my terminal, Ctrl-Shift-2 Ctrl-Shift-E Ctrl-Shift-1 Ctrl-Shift-8. 20:06:57 And it's called a gnaborretni. 20:07:43 ⸘Weeh‽ 20:11:32 ⸘Gnaborretni‽ ⸘Interrobang‽ 20:25:28 GregorR, does egobot support dobela? 20:25:33 (spelling?) 20:25:47 !languages 20:25:50 !help languages 20:25:51 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 20:26:05 guess not 20:26:33 I'm a circle. 20:27:06 I am a banana. 20:27:31 I'm the Queen of France! 20:27:35 I am a dish. 20:28:21 GregorR, how large is plash? I mean, installation wise 20:28:34 just wondering for testing that erl thing 20:28:40 Not a clue :P 20:28:41 since there is no gentoo package for it 20:28:43 apt-get knows :P 20:28:49 I would need to build my own 20:28:56 Yeah, I realize that. I have no info. 20:29:00 GregorR, well good thing, but I don't have any debian or debian-based system 20:29:12 so get one. 20:29:13 `run apt-get foo? 20:29:15 No output. 20:29:16 X-D 20:29:19 ehird, why on earth 20:29:24 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:29:30 to install plash like that. 20:29:30 `run apt-get --help 20:29:31 apt 0.7.21 for amd64 compiled on Apr 15 2009 21:31:44 \ Usage: apt-get [options] command \ apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ \ apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and \ installing packages. The most frequently used commands are 20:29:45 GregorR, what command checks that size 20:29:58 Not a clue. If I knew, I would have told you how much space it took :P 20:30:10 ehird, ever looked at the source of the runtime linker? 20:30:26 no? 20:30:33 `run apt-get info plash 20:30:34 No output. 20:30:37 `run apt-cache show plash 20:30:37 rather 20:30:37 No output. 20:30:40 ... 20:30:42 wat 20:30:51 `which apt-cache 20:30:51 /usr/bin/apt-cache 20:30:59 example comment: 20:31:01 313 /* The following is not a complete strsep implementation. It cannot 20:31:01 314 handle empty delimiter strings. But this isn't necessary for the 20:31:01 315 execution of ld.so. */ 20:31:17 this is elf/dl-minimal.c in glibc source 20:31:18 Time it took to write that comment: 30 seconds 20:31:24 Time it would take to complete the implementation: 1 minute 20:31:33 ehird, there are reasons to avoid the full one 20:31:38 :p 20:31:44 AnMaster: btw, eglibc has a viewvc. 20:31:50 ehird, ld.so needs to be quite crazily optimised 20:31:55 ehird, ? 20:32:03 I found the new one 20:32:05 you complained that glibc didn't have one any more 20:32:07 oh 20:32:08 they forgot to add a link it seems 20:32:12 I asked in #glibc 20:32:27 they recently switched to git, and they forgot to add a link to the gitweb-thingy 20:32:33 http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob;f=elf/dl-minimal.c;h=e07029326c913aa617d09c9cf2e5453b4ef3ede6;hb=HEAD 20:32:42 oh well, debian will kill fsf glibc anyway 20:32:51 alas i don't think they can kill drepper 20:32:52 ehird, huh? 20:32:59 AnMaster: debian are abandoning glibc for eglibc 20:33:00 what is eglibc btw 20:33:04 a fork of glibc 20:33:04 okay 20:33:06 with less shit 20:33:08 when did this happen? 20:33:12 originally designed for adding embedded system support 20:33:21 but now basically being "glibc except without that goddamn drepper guy" 20:33:22 AnMaster: may 20:33:25 ehird, and the freebsd runtime linker is quite crazy too 20:33:27 iirc 20:33:28 http://blog.aurel32.net/?p=47 20:33:33 was a while ago I last looked 20:34:29 ehird, when that code is entered, you can't do malloc or use stdio for example. Nor can you just use the normal malloc(), because the pools it use and such aren't set up, or even possible to set up yet 20:34:35 you have to use sbrk. 20:34:46 remember this is before the actual executable is loaded. 20:34:47 !swedish sbrk sbrk sbrk! 20:34:47 sbrk sbrk sbrk! Bork Bork Bork! 20:34:52 haha 20:36:13 this indicates that all Swedes are kernel programmers (yes technically userspace, but this is actually more like kernel programming than user space programming until you hit main() (or at least crt.o). 20:36:27 ehird: Eglibc still has embedded system support. 20:36:31 pikhq: yes 20:36:38 The idea is to make the build system flexible. 20:36:47 And to support useful things, like ARM. 20:36:52 And to not have Drepper. 20:36:53 I can see where this is leading I think 20:36:59 pikhq, doesn't glibc support ARM? 20:37:16 AnMaster: Ulrich Drepper refuses to accept patches for it. 20:37:24 on what grounds? 20:37:29 AnMaster: because he's a fucking asshole. 20:37:29 some specific issues with those patches or what 20:37:35 He doesn't like ARM. 20:37:41 err... 20:37:42 i can't believe red hat employ him 20:37:47 is that his official reason? 20:37:48 they should fire him like 10 times 20:37:52 Yes. 20:38:00 AnMaster: i don't think drepper is ever "official" 20:38:19 Also, Glibc only builds with Bash. 20:38:26 ehird, I think it is too late. Considering he was one of the people working on POSIX 2008.. 20:38:33 Because he refuses patches to make it build with straight Bourne. 20:38:44 AnMaster: too late for what? 20:38:47 glibc can certainly be displaced 20:38:48 And it won't build with -Os. 20:38:53 Because he refuses patches. 20:39:01 and he's obviously criminally incompetent wrt to glibc maintainership 20:39:02 pikhq, I can partly understand that, plain sh is quite painful compared to bash... 20:39:03 causing people to stop using it 20:39:08 thus redhat has good grounds to fire him 20:39:11 AnMaster: the patch was ONE LINE, iirc 20:39:17 and he refused to apply it 20:39:18 AnMaster: People have submitted patches to make it work. 20:39:28 ehird, ok... that's strange 20:40:15 lets see what will happen in the future. 20:40:57 Arch is also switching to Eglibc. 20:41:26 pikhq, oh when? And will there be any possible transition issues with it? 20:41:34 ofc, ubuntu will probably inherit the debian change 20:41:39 Gentoo may, but quite likely not for a while; it's a bitch to switch libc versions in Gentoo. 20:41:39 so it's pretty much a done deal as far as marketshare goes 20:41:56 pikhq: Like it's trivial to switch glibc in Debian X-D 20:42:33 pikhq, I never had issues with that switch 20:42:36 GregorR-L: Touché. 20:42:42 not even back when it went linuxthreads -> ntpl 20:42:53 AnMaster: It's a bitch for the Gentoo maintainers, not the users. 20:42:54 I think mono broke (I used C# back then...) 20:42:57 but that was all 20:43:03 had to recompile mono 20:43:18 And they've got a bit less of a labor force than Debian. 20:43:21 fairly painless considering how huge the change was 20:43:40 pikhq, if it is really binary compatible, I fail to see why it would be so hard 20:44:10 binary compatible "where possible", actually. 20:44:16 or where feasible, I forget 20:44:25 Which is virtually every conceivable situation :P 20:44:35 What it actually means is "when we like". 20:44:45 Yeah, but they like being compatible :P 20:44:56 where is the list of important changes compared to "plain" glibc 20:44:59 ehird, ah... 20:45:09 i think it's compatible atm 20:45:14 and what i said was just cynicism 20:45:26 AnMaster: http://www.eglibc.org/mission 20:45:28 ehird, I meant... stuff like "added this cool feature" 20:45:41 see their version control? 20:46:14 ehird, yeah I could, but that would include trivial changes too. I meant something more like "highlights in this release" skipping white-space changes and similar :P 20:46:28 I guess you can't get everything 20:46:33 search for YOUR MOM. 20:46:40 ohhh 20:46:41 snap 20:46:44 AnMaster: Gentoo is slow to do minor version bumps. 20:46:51 pikhq, hm ok 20:46:56 Since they like to treat @system like Debian Stable. 20:53:18 ffs... http://plash.beasts.org/wiki/BuildingFromSource <-- you think that would be generic instructions right?... 20:53:22 Debian specific... 20:53:44 plash seems very debian-oriented... 20:53:46 Uhh, isn't plash Debian only? 20:53:56 ehird, where does it say so? 20:53:56 Yeah, plash is very Debian-oriented. But it's not Debian-only. 20:54:03 /shrug 20:54:11 I've heard of it run on other systems, it's just a bit caveat emptor. 20:54:45 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:55:20 Could probably run on Gentoo with some effort. 20:56:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 20:58:06 Alternatively, you could get debootstrap, which is easy to get running on other systems, and hey presto :P 20:58:39 what does debootstrap do? 20:59:00 Creates a Debian chroot. 20:59:21 Why yes, I'm well aware that debootstrap is easy to get running on other systems. 20:59:40 I'm a but low on disk space until I get that replacement disk... 20:59:45 It's dev-util/debootstrap 21:00:14 since my second harddrive broke down last night... I'm left with about 1 GB free space in total 21:00:31 And I keep it installed because I sometimes have call for getting a chroot running at a random whim. 21:00:52 pikhq: On any system it's the easiest way to get a working chroot ^^ 21:01:05 Why yes, it is. 21:01:06 On Debian it's like Russian nesting dolls of Debianness! :P 21:01:30 I've also used it to install Debian on an external hard drive. 21:02:09 (friend at college had a hard drive failure on his laptop, and couldn't get a replacement for a few months. So, plug in his external drive, parted, debootstrap, et viola.) 21:02:37 Erm, wait. No, that was Kubuntu I set up. 21:02:41 Still debootstrap. ;) 21:03:32 pikhq, it could boot from the external drive? 21:03:45 I guess that is common nowdays 21:03:46 AnMaster: Just have to install Grub. 21:03:59 Yes, USB booting is very common. 21:04:11 And if it weren't, I could just stick isolinux on a CD. ;) 21:04:12 very common = everything has it 21:04:22 isolinux? bah! use grub on a cd. 21:04:24 arch does it. 21:05:06 Hmm. Actually, yeah. That'd work well. 21:05:21 Ah, Grub. 21:05:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:05:38 arch uses grub to make an unholy menu system of slowness 21:05:45 it's cute and horrible to use. 21:06:01 ehird, um? I don't remember it being slow 21:06:04 and I used it 21:06:10 AnMaster: eh, takes a second or two to switch to a menu 21:06:12 Well, if they're going to do *that*, they'd be far better to use FreeDOS. 21:06:14 your computer is just slow so you don't notice :P 21:06:24 Yes, a FreeDOS batch script with loadlin. 21:06:27 >:D 21:06:27 ehird, oh I wouldn't notice that on the pentium3 I used it on... 21:06:31 pikhq: it actually has grub lines that start grub specifying a grub config file 21:06:37 yeah 21:06:40 and then "back" items that do it again for the main menu 21:06:48 a rather fucked up system 21:06:48 ehird, I wasn't using it on my desktop 21:06:52 AnMaster: right 21:07:05 ehird: Better than chain-loading GRUB installations. 21:07:15 ehird, hm can you install arch over ssh? that is, boot the cd, set password, start ssh, then to the rest over ssh? 21:07:20 I don't remember that being possible 21:07:23 pikhq: ouch 21:07:30 AnMaster: Can you install a donkey on a futon? 21:07:36 I don't remember that being possible. 21:07:48 That's certainly possible with Debian and Gentoo. 21:07:50 ehird, in fact I only remember ssh on install cd being possible on gentoo 21:07:54 (translation: Why are you asking me? Why is that a question? You even say you don't recall it being possible.) 21:07:56 And Slackware. 21:08:03 pikhq: what, installing a donkey on a futon? 21:08:04 sweet! 21:08:09 pikhq, must be rather hidden for debian? 21:08:12 or maybe I misremember 21:08:17 I have done it for gentoo 21:08:21 blind boot 21:08:23 Lemme look it up. 21:08:32 debian installation cds do everything 21:08:33 as in, check the process in a vm, then do the same on a headless computer 21:08:35 then ssh to it 21:08:37 bbl 21:08:55 But yes, Debian has a very flexible installation process. 21:13:12 In expert mode, it has an option for "continue install remotely over SSH". 21:13:36 If you want this to happen automatically, you can remaster the CD with a preseed file that makes that the default. 21:13:37 pikhq, I wish freebsd had it though 21:14:03 Also, Debian can readily be installed over serial console. 21:14:06 since when I install freebsd it tends to be on a system where the options are either ssh or kvm 21:14:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:19:22 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:29:32 pikhq: is there a completely unattended installer? 21:29:44 as in, boot off the CD and it installs by itself without a need to do anything? 21:29:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:30:44 ais523: You need to remaster the disc to have a preseed file which has answers to the installer questions. 21:31:01 I guessed it would be something like that 21:31:05 for safety reasons 21:31:06 Or host the installer on TFTP with a preseed file. 21:34:46 ais523: how about for actual possibility reasons 21:34:52 unless you depend on a CD-RW 21:35:00 which is still remastering 21:35:08 ehird: you could have something like an alternate ISO for automatic install 21:35:22 or just a really long timeout, don't reply for 5 minutes and it does unattended install, although that's a bad idea for other reasons 21:35:24 ais523: but it doesn't know how you want t o install... 21:35:29 *to 21:35:35 use sane defaults? 21:35:56 there aren't any 21:36:55 It's also possible to pass "autourl=foo" to the Debian installer and make it load the preseed from the network... 21:37:55 "Manual of USB Folding Hamburger Controller" 21:38:03 :D 21:38:21 Have I mentioned that I wuuuuuuuuuuurve imported Chinese crap? 21:40:54 :-DD 21:41:05 What is it, actually 21:41:10 a USB Folding Hamburger? 21:41:14 A USB folding game controller. 21:41:29 It folds "hamburger-style", for those of you who folded paper in Elementary school in America :P 21:41:29 i preferred it when it was a hamburger 21:42:06 Or a hamburger controller ... a device that controls hamburgers. 21:42:12 here in the UK we don't fold hamburgers at all 21:42:19 Ah, US elementary school. 21:42:36 Can't teach anything useful, so you get paper folding for 5 years. 21:42:39 ais523: It's a description of a direction of paper folding when the paper is non-square. 21:42:47 e.g. US Letter size :P 21:42:57 GregorR: A4 is also non-square. 21:43:22 I was e.g.'ing that just to get in another US reference :P 21:44:34 Ah. 21:45:03 A4 has a 1:sqrt(2) aspect ratio. 21:45:07 Pretty non-square, IMO. 21:45:45 And An paper has the interesting property that you can get An+1 paper by cutting it in half. 21:46:08 Yes, that I'm aware of. 21:46:32 GregorR, would be nicer if it folded actual hambugers 21:47:16 * pikhq doesn't get the Bn paper standards 21:47:36 AnMaster: no, it controls foldable hamburgers 21:47:40 And An paper has the interesting property that you can get An+1 paper by cutting it in half. <--- err yeah? What's so special with that... 21:47:47 pikhq: 1:phi ratio FTW! 21:47:49 pikhq, isn't B for envelopes? 21:47:50 For everything 21:47:54 -!- coppro has joined. 21:47:58 AnMaster: no, it controls foldable hamburgers <-- ah right 21:47:59 AnMaster: That's what C is for. 21:48:03 ah 21:48:05 what's B for then 21:48:07 AnMaster: It's handy. 21:48:21 (he means it's like hands) 21:48:38 B is like A but bigger. 21:48:42 B for Big. 21:48:49 B0 is 1mxsqrt(2)m, and Bn is the geometric mean between An and An-1. 21:49:20 C is also bigger than A but not as big as B, so it gets a C for not achieving anything special. 21:49:22 And Cn is the geometric mean between An and Bn. 21:51:21 US paper sizes have neither rhyme nor reason. 21:51:36 But they do have ... flavor? 21:51:58 Letter is slightly smaller than A4, and legal is slightly *larger*. 21:51:59 Letter - about a quarter of the average maximum stretch of an experienced vatman's arms. 21:52:31 There's also government-letter. 21:52:45 Letter - about a quarter of the average maximum stretch of an experienced vatman's arms. <-- seriously? 21:52:55 and what is a "vatman"? 21:53:03 The American Forest and Paper Association argues that the dimension originates from the days of manual paper making, and that the 11-inch length of the page is about a quarter of "the average maximum stretch of an experienced vatman's arms".[1] However, this does not explain the width or aspect ratio. 21:53:05 a clone? 21:53:09 what with the vat I mean 21:53:17 Paper-making. 21:53:20 a vatman is a man... WHO IS ALSO A VAT!!!!!!!! 21:53:27 He's the man who works at the vat. 21:53:29 ehird: All men are also vats. 21:53:33 WHAT! 21:53:37 ehird, ah, so not a man made in a cloning vat? 21:53:39 In this case, he shakes the pulp into the wire. 21:54:01 [1] is http://www.afandpa.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Pulp_and_Paper/Fun_Facts/The_U_S__Standard_Paper_Size.htm, which is incidentally ill-formed XML. 21:54:07 and the gov-letter thingy? 21:54:13 They forgot to run ASP on their .htm files. 21:54:18 AnMaster: Beats me. 21:54:32 Deewiant, what browser can you view it in 21:54:32 21:54:35 firefox doesn't like it 21:54:40 Then we've got the ANSI standards, which are A-E. A is letter, n+1 is n*2. 21:54:47 AnMaster: 2009-06-29 23:54:12 ( Deewiant) They forgot to run ASP on their .htm files. 21:54:57 21:54:57 21:55:01 -!- blackh has joined. 21:55:02 A hefty block of content, that. 21:55:04 If you look at the source, you'll see that it's the ASP source of a 404 page. 21:55:08 Deewiant, it sends a strict mime type I think, otherwise firefox would render it as good as it could by itself 21:55:12 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to Duffy. 21:55:20 AnMaster: it sends the official xhtml mime type, you mean. 21:55:28 xhtml 1.0 (not 1.1) allows text/html for backwards compoopability. 21:55:28 ehird, yeah 21:55:35 My recommendation for now is http://web.archive.org/web/20071024123755/http://www.afandpa.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Pulp_and_Paper/Fun_Facts/The_U_S__Standard_Paper_Size.htm. 21:55:37 (read: IE6 doesn't do application/falafel) 21:55:43 (it tries to downloadify it.) 21:55:52 ehird, I know about this... 21:56:10 in fact I made a script to check if the browser supports the mime type, and only then use the new one 21:56:17 back before IE7 was released 21:56:20 Yes, just like every other XHTML-using person. 21:56:27 nowdays I don't think it is actually needed 21:56:29 -!- Duffy has changed nick to Warrigal. 21:56:42 ehird, yes we all did back when IE6 was still common 21:56:52 No, that's not true. 21:56:54 IE6 is still used by 25% of people online. 21:56:59 Some of us didn't use XHTML because we weren't insane. 21:57:03 I was, alas, not among them until later. 21:57:05 depends on what target group 21:57:25 the pages I make? IE6 is definitely a minority 21:57:29 * AnMaster greps server logs 21:58:43 okay this is strange... 21:58:46 65.55.109.172 bzr.kuonet.org - [29/Jun/2009:12:16:45 +0000] "GET /cfunge/trunk/revision/183/doc/ HTTP/1.0" 200 5786 "http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=revision" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)" 21:58:50 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to Duffy. 21:58:51 there is that single entry 21:58:53 with MSIE 6 21:59:34 -!- Duffy has changed nick to Warrigal. 21:59:45 I've got .NET CLR 3.5.30729 21:59:59 I love the way it adds itself to the user-agent string without asking 22:00:13 Deewiant, yeah... 22:00:39 And it isn't exactly useful given that I usually browse from Linux. 22:01:13 how does it add it to your linux user agent string? 22:01:29 It adds it to some configuration file in my profile, which is shared between the OSs. 22:02:02 general.useragent.extra.microsoftdotnet is the preference name. 22:02:07 er 22:02:13 what is this OS-shared configuration profile? 22:02:15 So presumably it's in prefs.js. 22:02:18 oh 22:02:32 It is the Firefox profile. :-P 22:02:48 wow, the obnoxious Microsoft extension that they pushed onto Firefox affects Linux installations too, if you're sharing config? 22:02:51 I bet Microsoft didn't expect that 22:04:54 wouldn't simply disabling the extension solve the issue 22:05:04 and yeah, why did they install that extension... 22:05:22 Because Microsoft is a bunch of pricks. 22:05:30 what does that extension do 22:05:38 AnMaster: No, disabling the extension doesn't remove .NET CLR from the UA. 22:05:38 and what did mozilla.org think about it 22:05:55 The extension was uninstallable. 22:05:57 Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant 1.1 22:06:11 pikhq: /was/ ununinstallable, although Microsoft patched it so it could be 22:06:13 Adds ClickOnce support and the ability to report installed .NET versions to the web server. 22:06:39 Oh, you're right, it is uninstallable now, hadn't noticed. 22:06:55 Uninstalling it did remove the string from the UA, at least. 22:09:28 what is "ClickOnce"? 22:09:39 I WANT MAC PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 22:09:40 I do not know, and I'm not sure I wish to. 22:09:44 AnMaster: basically, it's for installers for .NET programs 22:09:53 so you can click on a link and the installer starts running, without confirmation 22:09:56 Because ActiveX was a good idea. 22:10:09 in theory it's safe as they only allow approved installers, and the user can choose not to install 22:10:16 in practice, who knows? 22:10:22 nooga: Step 1. Get ~$3,000. Step 2. Mac Pro! 22:10:33 The options did have a toggle for whether to ask for confirmation. 22:10:36 It was off by default. 22:10:51 for instance, theory: you can create lots of windows without window decorations, and place them at known locations on the screen, and make them steal focus 22:10:52 ehird: got $3k 22:10:57 nooga: http://www.apple.com/ 22:10:59 and they cover up everything but the 'accept' button 22:11:15 which is somehow disguised as part of something else 22:13:40 -!- blackh has left (?). 22:14:16 ehird: can't buy it 22:14:33 i have to eat, buy petrol, pay rent etc. 22:14:34 nooga: then you evidently don't have $3k spare. 22:14:42 ais523: Gah. So awful. 22:14:45 well now that doesn't count nooga :-P 22:14:53 Win32, the fundamentally flawed API. 22:14:55 oh yea $_$ 22:15:10 pikhq: do you think .NET is also fundamentally flawed? 22:16:11 ais523: .NET's main flaw is that it, like Java, has the theory that if some object-oriented programming is good, a lot of it is absolutely great. 22:16:27 ugh, oh dear 22:16:35 I at least give Java credit for being consistent, by the way 22:17:05 Mmm, yeah, there is at least that... 22:18:40 .NET has one other flaw. It's core design philosophy is "ME TOO!" (like some dumb AOLer) 22:19:44 AOL references are fresh and hip 22:20:07 That was actually a Weird Al reference. 22:20:41 ...weird al invented AOL="Me too!"? 22:20:44 I... see... 22:20:59 Uhhh...huuuhh...sorry, somebody put me in the particle decelerator there. 22:22:26 No, he used the phrase "saying 'Me too!' like some dumb AOLer" 22:23:13 In "It's All About the Pentiums". 22:23:22 That's as much of a reference to him as... as... as something someone else didn't invent. 22:23:52 Fuck off, I don't care, lalalala, and you're dumb. 22:23:54 :P 22:34:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 22:43:26 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 22:43:30 127 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [398] 22:44:37 Fuck off, I don't care, lalalala, and you're dumb. <-- stop acting like ehird... It makes me confused... 22:44:51 ais523, there are considerably shorter versions 22:46:04 use a 5bit encoding and a decoder? :P 22:46:18 AnMaster: I know, I was responding to a question in #IRP 22:46:32 zid: interesting idea; that's likely longer for short strings, though 22:46:35 for long strings, I don't know 22:47:24 why 5 bits 22:47:36 !bf_txtgen ööö 22:47:39 72 +++++++++++++[>>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>>.>.<.>.<.>.>---. [167] 22:47:41 that wouldn't work then 22:47:49 and that was one silly encoding... 22:48:09 !bf +++++++++++++[>>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>>.>.<.>.<.>.>---. 22:48:10 !bf_txtgen Åland är en ö 22:48:10 ööö 22:48:13 246 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>++>+++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>>>--.-------------------------.-----------.<+++++.>+++.<<++.<.-------------------------------.>>++++.<.>>+.<----.<.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------.>----------------------. [709] 22:48:21 pikhq, it treats it as bytes 22:48:25 so works just fine 22:48:30 Hooray. 22:48:37 UTF-8 is awesome. 22:50:08 i'd probably just block copy the smallest character, then add/sub the dfferences per char 22:50:22 or some midline character 22:50:27 mardi gras mardi gras 22:50:38 so abcdefghijkl just ends up being a load of 'a', 25 copies and a loop adding the loop iterator 22:51:10 I am however, quite mad 22:52:05 Here's how I'd do abcdefghijkl: --[+++++>->++<<]>----->[--<.+>] 22:52:16 Erm. 22:52:22 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 22:52:28 !bf --[+++++>->++<<]>----->[--<.+>] 22:52:29 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 22:52:42 Nice bit of golfing, that. 22:53:04 golfing? 22:53:27 Code golf -- competing to make the shortest program to do a predefined task. 22:53:35 attempting to write a program as shortly as possible 22:53:35 oh right 22:53:41 I used to do those in x86 asm 22:53:42 Especially popular in Perl. 22:53:52 esogolfing is fun too 22:54:02 Yeah. 22:54:10 there was a BF golfing tournament at Agora ages ago, before they went and invented BF Joust 22:54:10 I got the example 500 byte program down to about 120 iirc 22:54:24 That snippet is from a Brainfuck golf contest another IRC channel I'm in had. 22:54:27 using compression and putting the all the loops together 22:54:40 The next smallest program was some 40 chars. 22:55:32 Åland är en ö ? 22:55:43 Indeed it is 22:55:52 really? 22:55:56 didn't know 22:56:28 was the shortest test containing all three of those chars and that was still a sensible sentence I could think of 22:56:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:56:41 and no duplicates 22:57:01 oh and in alphabetic order too! 22:59:02 oh 22:59:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:59:49 -!- augur has joined. 23:00:31 reading the AMD64 ABI is fun... 23:00:59 (*nix one that is) 23:03:04 Application Bugging Interface? 23:21:02 no? 23:21:40 ais523: Agora golfing in what? 23:22:07 nooga: they had a Brainfuck golfing competition a while ago 23:22:09 before I joined 23:27:18 oh 23:27:26 on agora? why? 23:30:43 because there are lots of esoprogrammers there 23:31:44 it's also why nomic gets discussed here occasionally 23:35:26 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:35:26 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:38:10 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃"). 23:40:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:49:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:51:06 who the hell is spoony anyway... 23:52:15 I wonder if he's a spoony bard. 23:54:29 also, why is that _not_ a spoonerism. apparently. 23:55:17 Boony spard makes less sense. 23:55:50 and bony spaard is not much better 23:57:41 oerjan: You were running a Haskell snippet that printed "BRAAAAAINS" right as she was writing "BRAAAAAINS" in a different channel :P 23:57:49 Seemed a little bit unlikely :P 23:57:52 aha 23:58:12 So I came to the ONLY natural conclusion. 23:58:19 except that was induced by someone here mentioning zombies, i think 23:59:59 goddammit i bit my lip again