00:12:06 <GregorR> `addquote <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:12:07 <HackEgo> 7|<AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:12:43 <AnMaster> why was that worth adding as a quite
00:12:45 <GregorR> The concept of a rocket launch facility having a gift shop is weird :P
00:12:55 <ehird> GregorR: Oh I thought you meant like it=sex.
00:13:00 <ehird> Because that was funny because it references sex.
00:13:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, Kennedy Space Center gift shop exists
00:13:39 <GregorR> But that's a SPACE rocket launch facility :P
00:13:40 <ehird> AnMaster: Thank you.
00:13:52 <GregorR> Erm, opposite, landing, but whatever.
00:14:02 <AnMaster> ehird, I didn't mean that as a compliment (sp?)
00:14:08 <ehird> AnMaster: That's your problem.
00:14:20 <ehird> `addquote <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:14:21 <HackEgo> 7|<AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:00 <AnMaster> ehird, it is GregorR's bot. Respect what he decides.
00:15:09 <ehird> `addquote <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:10 <HackEgo> 8|<AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:16 <GregorR> It's the world's most hackable bot, don't respect anybody for anything.
00:15:21 <ehird> `addquote <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:23 <HackEgo> 7|<AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:25 <ehird> AnMaster: we can go at this all day.
00:15:28 <ehird> `addquote <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
00:15:29 <HackEgo> 7|<AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
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00:27:48 <ehird> see above what i said
00:28:08 <augur> i saw. i dont get it
00:29:39 <augur> he typed some stuff in ocaml, i guess. i dont know what he was trying to show me
00:29:48 <ehird> augur: no, above that
00:30:04 <ehird> AnMaster: dude, its evening in the us
00:31:15 <augur> also, regarding the spaces in place of parens: russell and whitehead had some sort of interesting system for avoiding parens, apparently
00:31:32 <augur> to show precedence relationships
00:31:52 <ehird> augur: immediately above
00:32:06 <ehird> augur: it was a joke about you being gay or something I think
00:32:27 <ehird> 23:47 GregorR: People for the ethical treatment of zombie anuses?
00:32:29 <ehird> 23:47 ehird: augur:
00:32:37 <ehird> augur: It was just a one-off joke.
00:32:40 <ehird> hurf durf anal sex etc.
00:34:02 <oerjan> augur, now our token gay member.
00:34:16 <augur> i thought i was always your token homosexual
00:35:49 <pikhq> ... People care about that?
00:36:25 <pikhq> Thought that at least on the Internet we were sane, reasonable people.
00:36:34 <GregorR> "People for the Ethical Treatment of Zombie Anuses" doesn't really come across as gay per se to me X-P
00:36:48 <oerjan> reasonable, occasionally
00:37:03 <oerjan> lousy sense of humor, always
00:37:55 <oerjan> GregorR: well that would be homosexual necrophilia
00:38:14 <oerjan> and maybe coprophilia too, since that was mentioned earlier
00:38:22 <GregorR> Depending on the kinkiness-level involved, "ethical treatment" may be disputable in any case :P
00:38:23 <augur> oerjan: its not necrophilia
00:38:43 <oerjan> would that be anecrophilia, then?
00:38:47 <pikhq> Ah. Missed the context.
00:39:21 <oerjan> this. is. greek. no funny portmanteaus here, please.
00:39:43 <oerjan> proper prefixes and suffixes, than you
00:40:59 <oerjan> ah still a portmanteau
00:43:27 <oerjan> i don't think zombies are considered animals (more than humans), are they
00:43:52 <Slereah_> Zombro makes me think of sombreroes
00:44:10 <oerjan> that r is so out of place
00:44:26 <Slereah_> Can we make out while wearing giant sombreroes?
00:45:22 <Slereah_> Don't put them on top of your brain fool!
00:45:34 <oerjan> hm do they make giant sombreros with two head whatchamacallits?
00:46:31 <oerjan> like those gloves i saw (on reddit?) a while ago
00:47:24 <Slereah_> I posted them on Secret area of VIP quality
00:49:21 <oerjan> "two headed sombrero" does not google :(
00:50:36 <AnMaster> <oerjan> like those gloves i saw (on reddit?) a while ago <-- link
00:52:28 <oerjan> Slereah_: apparently so, "VIPPER is the guy who hijacks that thread and changes the subject to MITTENS."
00:53:39 <Slereah_> Mittens are kind of a 4-ch and SAoVQ thing, not sure 4chan gets much mittens
00:54:21 <oerjan> this stuff is confusing
00:55:51 <oerjan> AnMaster: the company site is http://www.smittens.biz/Smittens/Home.html, i don't recall the actual reddit link
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00:56:54 <oerjan> that link had a cheesy picture of a couple using them
00:58:39 <oerjan> ah http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/01/21/smittens-worlds-dumbest-mittens/
01:01:29 <augur> hes not dissing mittens
01:01:32 <augur> hes dissing smittens.
01:01:39 <augur> click the link, faggot
01:02:40 <Slereah_> Part of the mitten brotherhood
01:02:55 <GregorR> Are you smitten with mittens on kittens?
01:03:01 <oerjan> don't dis people. like this there adolf friend of mine...
01:03:52 <oerjan> GregorR: he might have been bitten
01:05:23 <GregorR> No one wants to be bitten by smitten kittens with mittens.
01:06:06 <Slereah_> Biden bitten by smitten kittens with mittens
01:06:11 <GregorR> ......... /me has no idea what that's supposed to refer to :P
01:06:22 <GregorR> You realize "Biden" doesn't rhyme with "bitten", right?
01:06:22 <oerjan> you may be hitt'n on something there...
01:06:47 <Slereah_> Best I could do on such short notice
01:08:22 <oerjan> biden and bitten are close when written
01:08:45 <GregorR> And yet, pronounced so differently :P
01:09:18 * oerjan may never have actually heard the name
01:09:49 <GregorR> You're forbidden to sit in, because your -ittens don't fit in.
01:10:26 <oerjan> well in that case i'm quittin'
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03:58:19 <pikhq> GregorR: I am of the opinion that I should listen to classical other than the works of Nobuo Uematsu.
03:58:43 <pikhq> (beyond critiquing my usage of the term 'classical'?)
04:01:30 <GregorR> All classical is other than the works of Nobuo Uematsu :P
04:01:52 <GregorR> Also, I'd recommend starting with Romantic and Baroque and working your way inwards.
04:02:40 <GregorR> Also, GREGOR HATE BEING SWEATY
04:04:51 <pikhq> Specific suggestions.
04:05:04 <GregorR> I suggest that you log in to AIM with a non-shitty client.
04:05:20 <pikhq> You're talking to someone who is barely aware of the terms "Romantic" and "Baroque", and wants to broaden his horizons.
04:05:27 <pikhq> Define 'non-shitty'?
04:05:35 <GregorR> One which can receive sent files.
04:05:56 <pikhq> Let's see if I *have* one.
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04:31:08 <Warrigal> Yay, I am now connected from lunch.normish.org.
04:31:22 <Warrigal> Be jealous; I command you. :-P
04:33:00 <lament> pikhq: start with vivaldi!
04:35:34 <lament> whatever. he sucks anyway.
04:35:40 <CESSMASTER> also, if you're going to name baroque composers and omit bach, you're a prick
04:35:52 <CESSMASTER> and jeeze, don't omit the late renaissance
04:35:56 <lament> nono, this is intentional
04:36:04 <CESSMASTER> palestrina, orlando di lasso, these are all wonderful
04:36:09 <lament> you would start with vivaldi and go on to bach
04:36:16 <lament> starting with palestrina is already a bit odd
04:36:52 <lament> the reason i want to start with vivaldi is so that then you can switch to bach and appreciate how awesome bach is
04:37:10 <lament> palestrina is too different from modern stuff to be at all comparable, imo
04:37:30 <CESSMASTER> who cares about comparable, it's amazing music
04:38:36 <lament> there's tons of amazing music out there
04:39:09 <lament> it makes sense to start with the more mainstream stuff though
04:39:11 <CESSMASTER> there's not tons of music of palestrina's caliber
04:40:30 <lament> what about every other big name
04:41:08 <lament> there's like 15 composers who're better known than palestrina, are you saying any of them are worse?
04:41:41 <CESSMASTER> and there are plenty of people better known than Palestrina who are worse
04:41:53 <augur> i would say there are a LOT of composers better known than palestrina
04:41:57 <lament> CESSMASTER: well come on.
04:42:09 <lament> first, you really really suck
04:42:10 <CESSMASTER> who else is famous and worse than palestrina
04:42:15 <pikhq> Nice thing about having eclectic tastes is being introduced to whole new genres, rather than just new groups, artists, etc...
04:42:23 <CESSMASTER> strauss is bombastic substance-free german nonsense
04:42:27 <lament> he's awesome just for that zarathustra intro
04:42:57 <CESSMASTER> strauss is like wagner, but with no point
04:43:22 <lament> that's just german romanticism. You can't blame him for belonging to a movement.
04:43:48 <CESSMASTER> there's plenty of post-wagner stuff that's not awful like strauss
04:44:31 <lament> pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKZr3ExeXUc
04:45:58 <CESSMASTER> schoenberg's stuff at the ass-end of german romantic tonality is also quite good
04:53:32 <pikhq> You guys and your 'knowing this genre'.
04:58:12 <Warrigal> Malinowski is obscure but fun.
04:58:58 <Warrigal> Obscure enough that I should probably give his first name.
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05:50:37 <Warrigal> Listening to music with the sound muted is so strange.
06:03:39 <Warrigal> Like putting on a blindfold and still seeing.
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08:06:46 <fizzie> There is the wlan in the conference place.
08:08:42 <fizzie> Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to listen to the presentations and not just IRC here.
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08:15:02 <asiekierka> I want to make an extended version of Windows 3.11
08:15:11 <asiekierka> I think I should get and work on Windows NT 3.51 instead though
08:15:25 <asiekierka> Why? It even runs Firefox (mostly), unlike Windows 3.11!
08:27:16 <GregorR> http://codu.org/imgs/win3plusplus.png
08:27:47 <GregorR> The main problem with most programs is its lack of a registry, which ironically makes F/OSS programs much more likely to work than proprietary.
08:41:33 <asiekierka> Oh, yeah, that just makes me SO want to run NT 3.51 alongside XP on my PC
08:41:58 <asiekierka> 2) No GeForce driver (but we can get around that)
08:52:54 <asiekierka> I think it could work well on my 100mhz Pentium laptop
08:53:01 <asiekierka> it's not as laggy as NT4 but still runs a bunch of apps
09:11:20 <asiekierka> [Global Notice] Hi all, I'm going to restart services -- you'll be without NickServ, ChanServ, MemoServ etc for a few moments! Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for using freenode.
09:44:47 <immibis> why did you repeat the global notice? we all got it...
09:45:03 <immibis> anyone know how to set a prompt in a MOO?
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13:07:17 <Gracenotes> hooray! another mystery solved with the help of wireshark
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16:02:33 <oklopol> actually gets pretty interesting in chapter 4
16:03:41 <oklopol> i just guess it shouldn't, because i've seen the exact same thing done multiple times
16:03:50 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
16:04:33 <oklopol> there's a chain in front of me
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16:04:59 <oklopol> i don't know what "metal" is in spanish
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17:15:11 <pikhq> Intel has apparently canned production of 45nm Havendale chips -- planning to just skip to 32nm.
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17:57:00 <GregorR-L> Anybody written a virtual pet in some scripting language?
17:58:25 <comex> where does this David slowed stuff come from?
17:58:52 <GregorR-L> But David did slow his pace slightly as his ears!
18:15:03 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
18:42:05 <GregorR-L> `run perl -wlne'END{print$n}eof&&$n++;/<title>([^<]+)/i&&$n--' *
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19:06:18 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Ah, esolangs.
19:07:12 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> But David did slow his pace slightly as his ears! <-- ... ,
19:07:40 <GregorR-L> I also changed "slowed" to "did slow", so clearly my intention was not to quote it precisely.
19:13:45 <AnMaster> hash tables are prone to DDoS. But are balanced trees really immune to that?
19:14:58 <AnMaster> just wondering, since at least the implementation I'm using has severe issues with some operations I need. Fast in general, but when inserting a mostly sorted list it takes ages. Yes I realise it probably rebalances, but no there isn't really any alternative.
19:15:56 <AnMaster> as in, I can't control if the list is sorted or not.
19:21:25 <AnMaster> (and I only get one element at a time)
19:30:30 <Asztal> can anyone here visit http://webchat.freenode.net/ ?
19:30:37 <Asztal> I just get an encoding error
19:31:47 <fizzie> Lucky you; I just seem to be getting a blank screen.
19:32:06 <Deewiant> Well, I got some error about not having javascript before I enabled it
19:32:30 <fizzie> I got that too, then I said to noscript to temporarily allow it, and after that was when I got the empty page.
19:34:25 <Asztal> now I get a page, but it won't actually connect; the button does nothing...
19:34:39 <GregorR-L> It works, but can't connect for me.
19:34:51 <GregorR-L> [14:34] == *** (qwebirc) Looking up your hostname...
19:34:51 <GregorR-L> [14:34] == *** (qwebirc) Found your hostname.
19:34:51 <GregorR-L> [14:34] == Disconnected from server: Connection to IRC server failed.
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19:35:25 <Asztal> ah, back to the compression error, looks like GregorR-L is in the lead
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19:39:38 <DeeWC> Looks like a decent UI, too.
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19:41:31 <Warrigal> Actually, I know precisely where this David slowed stuff comes from.
19:42:15 <Warrigal> But I have to go, so I'll tell you later.
19:45:40 <ehird> I think I'll implement the lambda calculus with IO in OCaml.
19:46:32 <ehird> 16:35:49 <pikhq> ... People care about that?
19:46:32 <ehird> 16:36:25 <pikhq> Thought that at least on the Internet we were sane, reasonable people.
19:46:44 <ehird> pikhq: why would that stop us making jokes about gayness?
19:46:51 <ehird> i make jokes about plenty of things i'm fine with
19:47:16 <pikhq> ehird: That's because you're only one step removed from 'lawl cockfag'.
19:47:38 <ehird> pikhq: amusing but no.
19:47:42 <ehird> i just have silly phases.
19:48:49 <ehird> god, I hate touchscreens
19:49:03 <comex> ehird: so why the iphone
19:49:28 <ehird> because i hadn't used it before buying it and put my faith in the holy jobs to make it work for me
19:49:44 <ehird> well i used it for like 3 minutes
19:49:51 <ehird> on a smudgy display copy
19:50:08 <ehird> the iphone does touchscreens a lot better than any other device i've seen but it's still shit
19:50:34 <ehird> the current technologies are fundamentally (a) incredibly prone to get smudgy as fuck, (b) hard to manipulate smoothly and (c) completely untactile
19:51:05 <comex> I hear the 3GS is better at smudginess
19:51:35 <ehird> are you contractually obligated to clean it thoroughly every week?
19:52:21 <comex> the screen is oleophobic
19:52:35 <ehird> it doesn't like japanese oreos?
19:52:38 <comex> I have no idea how much of an effect this actually causes
19:52:50 <ehird> [[According to Electricpig, the iPhone 3G S will be Oleophobic - which does not mean “scared of cookies”. ]]
19:53:08 <ehird> "Apple coated the new iPhones screens' in a special material that repels the oil on your hands that leaves greasy fingerprints."
19:53:12 <ehird> that could be cool for keyboards and mice
19:54:18 <ehird> Original: June 29, 2007[1]
19:54:18 <ehird> 3G: July 11, 2008[2]
19:54:19 <ehird> 3G S: June 19, 2009[3]
19:54:25 <ehird> Buy an iPhone and you get to replace it every year!
19:54:47 <comex> anyway I can't decide whether I want the 3GS or Pre
19:54:50 <comex> not that I'm likely to get either one
19:55:29 <ehird> comex: meh. it's got an open source linux-based OS, it's got a real fucking keyboard, and it's not locked down at all so you can fuck with everything and distribute shit yourself
19:55:40 <comex> only if you have the dev version
19:55:48 <comex> the linux fork is crap
19:55:53 <ehird> comex: rooting the non-dev one takes like 3 seconds
19:56:00 <ehird> comex: also the dalvik vm is way less shit than hotspot for this
19:56:15 <ehird> comex: so? anyway, you can run C shit
19:56:17 <ehird> it just isn't supported
19:56:31 <fizzie> The best thing is that Android uses their own VM (what was it called again, delvik?) so they can't use the Jazelle "java-acceleration" tricks the ARM cpu would have.
19:56:32 <ehird> write your prog in $blah and write a ui in jython or something
19:56:47 <ehird> fizzie: Dalvik, mr Im Using AnMaster's IRC Client So I Have No Backlog.
19:56:52 <comex> the pre also uses a linux-based OS, the apps are unobfuscated javascript even if the source isn't officially published, and can be rooted in 5 seconds
19:56:57 <ehird> Even For Things That Were Said Three Seconds Ago :P
19:57:08 <comex> and javascript >>>>> java
19:57:11 <ehird> comex: but it's not an open platform still. also, "EVERYTHING IS A WEB APP LOLZ" is totally shit
19:57:20 <ehird> it severely limits the cool shit youc an do.
19:57:20 <comex> ehird: execpt it's apparently really fast, even with lots of open apps
19:57:29 <comex> and I'm sure people will figure out how to run c stuff
19:57:47 <comex> see, I still prefer the iPhone, where apps are actually native code so you don't have to fight an interpreter
19:57:54 <comex> but at least with javascript, you know it's shit
19:57:56 <fizzie> ehird: I'm using LimeChat right now, and the Dalvik message had not appeared when I wrote that. Dialup, you know.
19:58:02 <ehird> comex: the g1 can run C shit.
19:58:05 <ehird> thus it can run anything
19:58:14 <ehird> yes the apis are java, just write a damn wrapper
19:58:21 <comex> java is just good enough that everyone pretends it's a real programming language
19:58:25 <comex> so everything is slow
19:58:34 <ehird> comex: what you forget is that the G1 isn't java-based
19:58:48 <comex> you want to use clojure?
19:59:08 <ehird> comex: you can use $any_jvm_language, or just write your fast logic in $native_lang and a UI in $jvm_lang
19:59:30 <ehird> so it doesn't really limit you, worst case? make a wrapper program for the jvm and call it from your c program
19:59:34 <ehird> if you really need to intwine that shit so much
20:00:48 <ehird> comex: also, the G1 has a real keyboard and a real joysticky thing and real buttons
20:01:14 <ehird> a real keyboard with real fucking modifier keys.
20:01:39 <ehird> ooh, the joystick is actually a trackball
20:01:44 <ehird> that's even better
20:02:11 <fizzie> The trackball got good reviews, I think.
20:02:45 <ehird> trackballs absolutely rock for games
20:02:57 <ehird> (not so much for general meesing...)
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20:05:01 <comex> the pre has a real keyboard
20:05:18 <ehird> comex: so it does, but it's smaller
20:05:31 <ehird> comex: and lacks separate numeric/punctuation keys
20:05:40 <ehird> so a slight win for the G1 on that ponit
20:06:11 <ehird> the G1 has an autofocus camera and the pre doesn't seem to
20:06:17 <ehird> although this is really nitpicking :P
20:06:35 <ehird> (if I actually took photos it'd be nice because my hands are jittery as fuck)
20:08:16 <ehird> comex: wrt the pre "Also, the temptation to keep many apps running can outstretch the device's ability to handle them. I quickly learned to dread the dialog box informing me that I could not open a new app without removing some of my open cards."
20:08:45 <ehird> "The keyboard's too small for thumb typing (welcome to fingernail typing) "
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20:23:48 <Sgeo> Is the Google phone good?
20:24:20 <fizzie> Google has said that before the end of 2009 there should be 18 Android phones available; the rumours have it that at least some of those have keyboards. Here's hoping. The Samsung I7500 they're actually almost-selling already is a touchscreen-only thing.
20:24:33 <ehird> Sgeo: Google phone = G1.
20:24:35 <ehird> fizzie: The G1 has a keyboard.
20:24:41 <ehird> Sgeo: Well, that's the first one.
20:24:45 <ehird> Also the best so far.
20:24:48 <Sgeo> Is it a good phone?
20:24:59 <ehird> I've just spent ages arguing that it is to comex :P
20:25:18 <fizzie> I know, but others could have it too. The G1 looks a bit dated.
20:25:35 <Sgeo> It's T-Mobile, or is Google failing?
20:25:40 <fizzie> I would've been tempted by the Dev Phone, if it weren't for the >$100 shipping costs to Finland.
20:25:48 <ehird> Sgeo: Google made the operating system...........
20:25:56 <ehird> And worked with HTC on the hardware.
20:26:16 <ehird> You can also buy an unlocked Dev Phone from Google, which is it.
20:26:22 <ehird> fizzie: What specifically is dated about it, anyway?
20:26:35 <fizzie> They sell it as "HTC Dream" in some locations. (And they don't sell it at all in Finland.)
20:27:03 <ehird> 528mhz ARM is faster than the iPhone [3G] (but not S), it has the regular screen, it has a regular camera, it has 192MB of RAM... Android is being actively developed...
20:27:12 <ehird> I don't really see why it's "dated".
20:27:13 <fizzie> ehird: Just the looks. And the I7500 has a better camera (well, spec-wise; haven't seen real reviews yet) if one cares about that sort of thing.
20:27:18 <ehird> It only came out in October.
20:27:40 <fizzie> October last year, though! In iPhone-years that's something like twelveteen generations old.
20:27:46 * pikhq still wants OpenMoko.
20:28:01 <fizzie> Have to go, hourly dialup charges and so on.
20:28:12 <ehird> pikhq: OpenMoko the OS is no more open than Android, really; and it looked kind of shit tbh
20:28:41 <ehird> Heck, the Neo phones can run Android.
20:28:53 <ehird> So you could probably run OpenMoko on an Android phone, though why you'd want to I have no clue.
20:29:03 <ehird> "As of the 2008.08 software revision only the GSM phone module is working reliably"
20:29:10 <ehird> pikhq: yeah, I loooooooooooooove X11.
20:29:28 <pikhq> Qt embedded runs directly on the framebuffer.
20:30:07 <ehird> pikhq: "The software development is split between Qtopia under X11"
20:30:19 <pikhq> ... WHY ARE THEY RUNNING QTOPIA ON X?
20:30:21 <ehird> Maybe that's an option, but OpenMoko runs it under X11.
20:30:26 <ehird> pikhq: because they have gtk stuff too
20:30:35 <ehird> "The Openmoko community has forked [4] the final stable release into Qt Extended Improved and they have launce a new homepage [5]. "
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20:30:40 <pikhq> Which should be running on DirectFB.
20:30:51 <pikhq> Okay, so the OpenMoko community is retarded.
20:31:01 <pikhq> Android FTW, then.
20:33:16 <ehird> Clearly what we need is perfect wearable computers for free.
20:33:20 <ehird> Step 1. Establish communist state
20:33:27 <ehird> Step 2. Force clever people to develop thus
20:33:30 <ehird> Step 3. Give to everyone
20:33:40 <ehird> Step 5. NO PROFIT BUT LAPTOPS AND PHONES ARE OBSOLETE
20:33:45 <ehird> Step 6. — Comrade.
20:33:58 <pikhq> Step 1. Make Reprap be able to print useful electronics.
20:34:09 <pikhq> Step 2. Post-scarcity.
20:34:18 <ehird> Step 4. Oops, entropy.
20:34:19 <pikhq> Step 4. Singularity!
20:34:28 <ehird> Step 5. Simultaneous step-threading is outlawed.
20:34:41 <ehird> Step 5.1. BASIC line numbering adopted for steps.
20:34:46 <pikhq> ... How does entropy get into this?
20:34:48 <ehird> Step 5.2. Space is filled.
20:34:55 <ehird> Step 6. Singularity expands space.
20:35:03 <ehird> pikhq: I was just being the silly.
20:35:23 <ehird> Step 8. Wars between universes fighting for space, energy
20:35:35 <ehird> Step 9. Goddammit, the multiverse is finite too.
20:35:45 <ehird> Step 10. God is petitioned to give us infinite stuff kthxbai.
20:35:54 <ehird> Step 11. God, by way of killing us and sending us all to heaven, complies.
20:35:57 <ehird> Step 12. Well, bugger.
20:36:18 <ehird> I hereby decree the above The Story of Wasted Effort.
20:36:59 * pikhq runs off, muttering something about "Forward the Singularity!"
20:37:55 <ehird> pikhq: Is there some wacky theological argument that equates the singularity to the second coming of christ?
20:37:59 <ehird> I would enjoy that
20:39:18 <ehird> [[If it goes up to your belly button I WANT WANT WANT YOU! http://305f8.easyurl.net]]
20:39:24 <ehird> My legs just aren't that flexible...
20:40:17 <ehird> pikhq: Actually, how does that even work? *SINGULARITY, EVERYONE IS HAPPY* "Hey guys! I'm Jesus and I've come to save you from your sufferi—" "WOOHOO PARTY SINGULARITY WOO" "—okay, call me back when you're in the mood."
20:42:17 <pikhq> Jesus as the spiritual manifestation of the singularity.
20:42:57 <ehird> That's some metaphorical bible-reading :P
20:44:07 <Asztal> the book of revelations gives a finite size for heaven
20:44:12 <ehird> pikhq: So, wait. 2000 or so years ago, a singularity was born? Somehow. :P
20:44:30 <ehird> Asztal: It's Revelation, not Revelations.
20:45:50 <pikhq> It's "The Revelation of John", not the Book of Revelations. :P
20:46:21 <ehird> pikhq: It's "Revelation to John", actually.
20:50:51 <Asztal> aha, it's a cube, 2.211 megametres on each size :)
20:51:28 <ehird> Asztal: That's rather gigantic.
20:51:35 <ehird> Although not really.
20:51:51 <lament> should be big enough for all mankind
20:51:52 <ehird> Asztal: So, uh, _how_ is every good dead person ever meant to fit in there? :-)
20:52:02 <lament> with lots of room to spare
20:52:25 <ehird> pikhq: Hey! In Christianity, are good non-humans generally agreed to go to heaven or not?
20:52:40 <lament> some estimate from the internet: 106,456,367,669
20:52:44 <lament> (number of people that ever lived)
20:52:44 <ehird> If it's all good creatures, I'm gonna guess that 2.2 megametres isn't quite big enough.
20:52:47 <pikhq> ehird: There is generally no stance on the issue amongst Christians.
20:52:53 <ehird> lament: does that include neanderthals etc?
20:53:11 <ehird> i mean, defining what a human is is very arbitrary
20:53:16 <lament> not sure, but it starts from 50,000 BC
20:53:29 <pikhq> It's like asking for Christianity's opinions on the laws of physics. :P
20:53:30 <lament> adding all those guys would not change the count dramatically
20:53:37 <lament> there weren't very many of them
20:54:02 <pikhq> Oh, right. People do that.
20:54:07 <ehird> pikhq: err, it's a theological matter about who gets into heaven, innit
20:54:07 * pikhq facepalms at idiots
20:54:16 <lament> ehird: anyway, if we take it to be that number
20:54:29 <lament> ehird: we can put everyone on the *bottom* of the cube, with 40m^2 per person!
20:54:36 <pikhq> And it's a theological matter that I am unaware of any opinions on the matter at all.
20:54:38 <lament> we're barely using *any* space at all
20:54:39 <ehird> lament: remember that people need space to move around, and presumably there's shit other than people in heaven
20:54:59 <lament> ehird: yes, but the *entire cube* is empty
20:55:14 <ehird> it depends what attractions there are in heaven, apart from the whole "eternal gaze of the holy spirit" boring shit :)
20:55:16 <lament> you don't really appreciate how big 2 million meters is
20:55:21 <lament> especially when it's cubed
20:55:34 <ehird> lament: in more reasonable terms, that's 1,000 miles
20:55:37 <pikhq> What's the diameter of the Earth?
20:55:37 <ehird> which is big but not gigantic
20:55:48 <ehird> `wolfram diameter of earth
20:55:54 <HackEgo> diameter of earth \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ Earth \ Result: \ \ diameter \ \ 7913.1 miles \ Unit conversions: \ \ 12 734.9 km kilometers \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on June 22, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company \ \ 1 \ \
20:56:10 <ehird> pikhq: so it's (earth.diameter/7)^3
20:56:20 <lament> ehird: in that case, you don't appreciate how few humans are there and how little space they occupy :)
20:56:28 <pikhq> Which is a fuckton of volume.
20:56:37 <lament> ehird: we could put all humans currently living on an island of about 30x30km
20:57:28 <ehird> we are talking 6bn people here
20:58:16 <lament> (which is very sparse as crowds go)
20:58:28 <ehird> that's impressive.
20:58:31 <lament> 30x30 is reasonable when it's an actual crowd
20:58:52 <lament> there's a sci-fi story where some guy gets a revelation
20:58:57 <pikhq> So, how much area would we have in this cube?
20:58:58 <lament> that some sort of end of the world is coming
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20:59:13 <lament> and they should build a huge cube and put everybody on earth inside this cube
20:59:18 <ehird> lament: is it called the bible
20:59:19 <lament> and people believe him and proceed to build the cube
20:59:31 <lament> the cube was really small
20:59:44 <lament> i don't remember, either 1 or 10 km
21:00:14 <lament> math says, 6km on the side if it's 1m^3 per person
21:00:14 <pikhq> According to Wikipedia, the Earth has 148 square terameters of land. Can we beat that with a 2 megameter cube?
21:00:39 <lament> the book had all sorts of logistic problems
21:00:49 <pikhq> (man, terameters. I <3 metric)
21:00:55 <lament> the cube was built in china because that's where most of the population is anyway, so it's easier to transport people to the cube
21:01:08 <lament> but the chinese got pissed off because they were the first to be frozen, and suspected a conspiracy
21:01:26 <lament> but then they did it anyway because everybody trusted the prophet guy
21:01:46 <ehird> lament: so what happens
21:02:06 <lament> i probably shouldn't spoil it :)
21:02:15 <lament> if i remember the name of the book at least
21:02:22 <Asztal> hm, that measurement just refers to New Jerusalem, but I don't know what's outside of that
21:02:35 <Asztal> by the way, it's made of gold, so it would probably weigh quite a lot too
21:03:07 <lament> don't remember the name :(
21:03:08 <pikhq> Asztal: To simulate gravity, of course.
21:03:10 <ehird> Asztal: what, heaven?
21:03:11 <pikhq> s/simulate/replicate/
21:03:15 <ehird> that's all god can do? gold?
21:03:22 <ehird> not like, solid enlightenment?
21:03:28 <Asztal> http://isv.scripturetext.com/revelation/21.htm
21:03:42 <ehird> christianity is so disappointing!~
21:03:49 <Asztal> (As I just said, apparently the measurement is only the city, I don't know what the rest really is)
21:04:11 <ehird> this new jerusalem does have a lot in common with the original
21:04:15 <ehird> like being a gigantic gold fucking cube
21:04:25 <ehird> Asztal: [[The Tabernacle (Hebrew משכן, mishkan, "residence" or "dwelling place"), according to theHebrew bible/Old Testament, was the portable dwelling place for the divine presence from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan]]
21:04:30 <ehird> so it's not actually heaven
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21:58:39 <oerjan> <AnMaster> hash tables are prone to DDoS. But are balanced trees really immune to that?
21:59:08 <oerjan> i think balanced trees should be O(log n) worst case insertion, if that's what you're worrying about
21:59:11 <AnMaster> oerjan, for implementing an asoc array that is.
21:59:16 <ehird> let rec compile e =
21:59:17 <ehird> Var x -> "(fun _ -> " ^ scrub x ^ "())"
21:59:19 <ehird> | Lam (x,e') -> "(fun _ -> fun " ^ scrub x ^ " -> " ^ compile e' ^ ")"
21:59:21 <ehird> | App (p,q) -> "(fun _ -> (((" ^ compile p ^ ") ()) " ^ compile q ^ "))"
22:00:29 <oerjan> AnMaster: i don't know about the hash DDOS thing but i would guess it's something like if someone knows the hashing scheme they could force collisions and make it very slow?
22:02:05 <oerjan> ehird: ^ is ocaml concatenation?
22:03:45 <oerjan> for balanced trees in themselves that should not be possible, but what about long keys with common prefixes?
22:03:56 <AnMaster> oerjan, however providing sorted input seems to slow it down, since even with a self-balancing tree it ends up having to do a lot more rotations.
22:04:03 <oerjan> that would at least require checking linear in length
22:04:07 <AnMaster> oerjan, that would be a prefix tree?
22:04:23 <SimonRC> ah, but is comparison constant-time?
22:04:42 <oerjan> um no i mean just inserting long string keys into a tree-based dictionary
22:04:45 <AnMaster> oerjan, which is not the variant I'm using. Since using a prefix tree for storing integers would be rather odd
22:04:47 <SimonRC> ordering will be linear in key length in the worst case, right?
22:05:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah no, this is a sparse integer -> value map
22:05:22 <oerjan> but not very large integers?
22:05:32 <AnMaster> oerjan, 64 bit ones, so not very
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22:05:57 <oerjan> btw haskell has a special map type for int keys that is faster
22:06:30 <AnMaster> and usually the range just above 0 ("just" ~ 15000 or so) is much denser
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22:06:59 <ehird> AnMaster: how about telling us the use case...
22:07:12 <oerjan> AnMaster: what language?
22:07:38 <AnMaster> ehird, you didn't ask, but then it is easy: For in-between. And I was planning an online version,.
22:07:42 <oerjan> because i recall haskell also has a function to build from ordered associations
22:07:56 <ehird> i didn't ask because it's not my discussion
22:08:00 <ehird> AnMaster: that's not the use case
22:08:05 <AnMaster> but it seems to have very poor performance when inserting lots of sorted keys in the dictionary.
22:08:09 <ehird> that's not what you're going to be using it for, that's just what you're going to use it in
22:08:18 <AnMaster> dictionary is based on AVL tree
22:08:49 <AnMaster> and use case, well, it is to track "initial memory is all zero"
22:09:25 <ehird> # compile (Lam ("x", Var "x"));;
22:09:25 <ehird> - : string = "(fun _ -> fun _x -> (fun _ -> _x()))"
22:09:34 <AnMaster> every time a non-zero is found it is marked as "modified"
22:09:38 <ehird> Hooray! Though I note that (fun _ -> _x()) could just be _x.
22:09:42 <AnMaster> as well as converting stuff where possible
22:09:49 <AnMaster> like +++ at the start to set 3
22:09:59 <ehird> # compile (Lam ("x", Var "x"));;
22:09:59 <ehird> - : string = "(fun _ -> fun _x -> _x)"
22:11:40 <AnMaster> if I shuffle the code to set those in a random order, thus adding lots more >>, the code is much faster.
22:11:53 <ehird> # let foo = Lam ("x", (App (Var "x", Var "x")));;
22:11:53 <ehird> val foo : expr = Lam ("x", App (Var "x", Var "x"))
22:11:56 <ehird> - : string = "(fun _ -> fun _x -> (fun _ -> (((_x) ()) _x)))"
22:11:58 <ehird> # compile (App (foo, foo));;
22:11:59 <AnMaster> thanks to profiling I managed to pin point it to the tree rotations
22:12:02 <ehird> "(fun _ -> ((((fun _ -> fun _x -> (fun _ -> (((_x) ()) _x)))) ()) (fun _ -> fun _x -> (fun _ -> (((_x) ()) _x)))))"
22:12:14 <AnMaster> oerjan, so question is, how to avoid this worst case.
22:12:23 <oerjan> AnMaster: from wikipedia: "The AVL tree is more rigidly balanced than Red-Black trees, leading to slower insertion and removal but faster retrieval."
22:12:37 <oerjan> so it may be an intrinsic fault of AVL trees
22:12:49 <AnMaster> oerjan, so in other word, lets use some other dict/set than the erlang stdlib in module for it.
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22:13:06 <AnMaster> oerjan, I also test for membership every iteration
22:13:23 <AnMaster> to see "is this not in set, if so, lets turn the add into a set"
22:13:53 <AnMaster> but might be worth trying some other sort of tree.
22:14:12 <oerjan> is DDOS actually a relevant problem for your use case?
22:14:25 <AnMaster> oerjan, as I mentioned above, I was planning an online compiler
22:14:42 <oerjan> otoh erlang may not be good for hash tables, since they are mutable
22:15:05 <AnMaster> oerjan, I guess I could go down and dirty and use ets tables... Not sure how much I would gain that wya
22:15:32 <ehird> - : unit -> unit -> (unit -> 'a as 'a) = <fun>
22:15:37 <oerjan> AnMaster: i guess your keys are not necessarily inserted in order, so you cannot optimize just for that?
22:15:37 <ehird> ok, that's _not_ the type i was expecting.
22:15:39 <AnMaster> not as nice interface of course.
22:15:45 <AnMaster> oerjan, they might not be indeed.
22:16:27 <ehird> specifically, I was expecting:
22:16:29 <AnMaster> oerjan, but at some point they will be.
22:16:38 <ehird> or unit -> (unit -> 'a as 'a)
22:17:12 <oerjan> ehird: those are all equivalent aren't they
22:17:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, with that I mean that I sort instructions by offset, but other passes might enable more to be sorted. Like eliminating dead code in between.
22:17:24 <ehird> oerjan: unit -> unit -> (unit -> 'a as 'a) isn't
22:17:29 <AnMaster> oh and the pass that builds this set even.
22:17:36 <oerjan> ehird: i would think it is
22:17:37 <AnMaster> that can enable better sorting in some cases.
22:17:43 <ehird> oerjan: well, I don't think it should generate that anyway
22:17:51 <ehird> I think it should generate one of what I said
22:17:56 <oerjan> if 'a = unit -> 'a, then it all simplifies
22:18:12 <ehird> but my compiler shouldn't be producing that, I think
22:18:15 <ehird> oh well, I'll try church numerals
22:18:27 <AnMaster> ehird, what are you compiling to/from?
22:18:34 <ehird> AnMaster: lambda calculus → ocaml -rectypes
22:18:40 <ehird> (-rectypes because the lambda calculus is not well-typed.)
22:18:47 <oerjan> ehird: i mean, unit -> (unit -> 'a as 'a) = unit -> 'a as 'a afaict
22:18:55 <ehird> (essentially, any lambda-expression is (a = a -> a))
22:19:05 <ehird> AnMaster: no; ocaml does the optimization
22:19:14 <ehird> after all, well-written ocaml is competitive with C-speed
22:19:24 <ehird> oerjan: but are you not listening to me?
22:19:29 <ehird> my compiler isn't architectured in a way to produce that type
22:19:34 <ehird> thus I suspect I may have a bug
22:19:44 <ehird> although there isn't really much room for buggery:
22:19:45 <ehird> let rec compile e =
22:19:50 <ehird> | Lam (x,e') -> "(fun () -> fun " ^ scrub x ^ " -> " ^ compile e' ^ ")"
22:19:52 <ehird> | App (p,q) -> "(fun () -> (((" ^ compile p ^ ") ()) " ^ compile q ^ "))"
22:19:58 <AnMaster> ehird, of course, but couldn't there be some stuff that you can know better at that point than ocaml can. Like stuff you can exploit, but which is not useful in most ocaml code.
22:20:18 <ehird> AnMaster: Dude, it's the lambda calculus. As far as semantically rich languages go, it's one of the least.
22:20:19 <AnMaster> There certainly is stuff like that for bf for example, no idea if there is for lambda calc
22:20:30 <ehird> "Oh! We're applying a function, to ANOTHER FUNCTION!"
22:20:37 <ehird> "Ooh, but this time, we're getting the function from our argument."
22:20:45 <ehird> "Ooh, here we have a literal function. That applies a function to a function! Twice!"
22:20:58 <AnMaster> ehird, you could possibly optimise written out church numerals
22:21:12 <ehird> eh, but why bother
22:21:20 <ehird> I'm just getting reacquainted with ocaml
22:21:36 <AnMaster> ehird, but it would be similar to optimising [-] into set for bf. common idiom.
22:21:45 <oerjan> ehird: what lambda expression did you compile to get that type?
22:21:47 <AnMaster> not sure if it would help much in your case
22:21:55 <ehird> oerjan: # let foo = Lam ("x", App (Var "x", Var "x")) in compile (App (foo, foo));;
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22:22:48 <oerjan> ehird: right, App (Var "x", Var "x") gives a recursive type of course
22:22:49 <AnMaster> this code was generated by gcc-bf: <+>*6-><+>
22:22:53 <ehird> oerjan: yes, of course
22:23:04 <ehird> SimonRC: http://codu.org/davidslowed/; a meme due to Warrigal
22:24:04 <ehird> oerjan: is it actually possible to force one of these functions through to completion? i don't think a loop that keeps doing (f ()) would type, even with -rectypes
22:25:21 <oerjan> ehird: if f : unit -> 'a as 'a then f () () () ... is well-typed, surely
22:25:52 <ehird> oerjan: actually, we can't write a "force f" function, as we have no way of knowing when we didn't reduce any
22:25:52 <oerjan> but you can never get anything but 'a out
22:26:02 <ehird> so this compiler, as-is, is useless
22:26:16 <ehird> with my IO model, we can just force until we get eof
22:26:39 <ehird> as i think it wouldn't terminate when a regular LC forcer would
22:27:29 <ehird> oerjan: is that 'oh, well' or 'oh well' :P
22:27:42 <oerjan> what's the difference?
22:27:55 <ehird> oerjan: 'oh, well, you can fix that by doing X' or 'oh well... life sucks...'
22:28:33 * ehird puts oerjan out of his misery
22:28:38 <ehird> NOW I CAN TAKE OVER THE WORLD
22:29:06 <ehird> oerjan: Shut UP you're DEAD.
22:29:21 <oerjan> THAT'S WHY I'M TALKING IN ALL CAPS, STUPID
22:30:31 <coppro> I thought Death talked in caps, not Dead
22:30:46 <ehird> coppro: DEATH TALKS IN SMALL-CAPS.
22:30:51 <ehird> THE DEAD TALK IN CAPS.
22:31:26 <coppro> oerjan wins; ehird is disqualified due to IRC not having small caps
22:31:30 <coppro> also due to not being dead
22:31:38 <ehird> IRC so has small caps; Unicode does.
22:31:59 <oerjan> OH NO, NOT THE UNICODE. PLEASE, NOT THAT
22:32:55 <oerjan> ---------------------O-
22:33:36 * oerjan HOPED myndzi WAS USEFUL FOR HANGMAN
22:33:37 * myndzi HOPED oerjan WAS USEFUL FOR HANGMAN
22:35:43 <ehird> coppro: No, I'm right.
22:35:47 <AnMaster> <ehird> IRC so has small caps; Unicode does. <-- example
22:35:49 <coppro> nicode does not have a complete set of small caps
22:35:57 <ehird> It does for the Latin a-z.
22:36:08 <AnMaster> because I'm pretty sure that is a font thing, not a encoding thing
22:36:13 <coppro> it has all but F, I, Q, S, X
22:36:22 <coppro> because they exist for other purposes (like IPA)
22:36:24 <ehird> FIQSX are for lame people.
22:36:41 <coppro> AnMaster: Unicode defines a number of differently-formatted characters
22:36:48 <oerjan> <ehird> I'm so unoriginal <-- YOU MEAN UNOLIGINAL
22:36:50 <SimonRC> ITYM "are phor lame people"
22:37:11 <AnMaster> coppro, yes I know the wide ones. I disagree with them.
22:37:20 <ehird> SimonRC: Methunk you mean "Methunk you mean"
22:37:24 <coppro> AnMaster: more than that
22:37:25 <AnMaster> yes I know it tries to be compatible
22:37:39 <AnMaster> coppro, yes ^2 and such. Which is again a font issue.
22:37:45 <ehird> AnMaster: they have a good justification; you're just blind to the culture requiring them
22:37:50 <coppro> once again, more than that
22:38:03 <AnMaster> ehird, what culture require the superscript 2 one?
22:38:41 <SimonRC> unicode is a bit messy, bit it could be much worse
22:39:21 <AnMaster> I mean, there is actually a difference in meaning
22:39:43 <AnMaster> I don't know of any such for superscript 2, or ∈ (another math symbol)
22:39:49 <ehird> oerjan: maybe i could add an argument mentioning whether we reduced
22:39:56 <AnMaster> assuming that ∈ is what I think it is
22:40:07 <ehird> you think we don't need an ∈ character?
22:40:35 <oerjan> ehird: SURE, EXCEPT YOU MEAN RESULT I THINK
22:40:45 <AnMaster> ehird, you are a retard if you think I think so
22:40:57 <ehird> 22:39 AnMaster: I don't know of any such for superscript 2, or ∈ (another math symbol)
22:41:22 <ehird> clearly coppro was confused at whaty ou meant as well
22:41:25 <AnMaster> ehird, it seemed to be stylised ∈ here.
22:41:45 <coppro> probably your default font doesn't have it, so your client picks another
22:41:48 <AnMaster> it looks kind of italics in Dejavu Sans Mono 9
22:41:52 <coppro> as a result you see it differently
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22:42:04 <AnMaster> coppro, if dejavu doesn't have it, then I'm very surprised.
22:42:49 <coppro> Is that in DejaVu for you?
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22:46:25 <Warrigal> 21:42 < coppro> à¶[+spoony ] [ Firenze ] [ Keiya ] [ Rachel ]
22:46:58 <coppro> I have no clue what it was, I just picked a random character that degraded to Unifont
22:46:58 <Warrigal> I think I need to set my lunch.normish.org locale.
22:47:13 <coppro> how come we always get into Unicode discussions?
22:49:00 <AnMaster> coppro, dejavu doesn't have everything, but it does have ∈. And it looks right in Dejavu Sans Mono 12, just not in 9
22:49:57 <Warrigal> It will be effective either next time I log in or next time I reboot. If the latter, I'll have to get used to the old one. :-P
22:52:08 * SimonRC remembers the killer character someone on here put together
22:52:19 <SimonRC> it have like 80 combining modifiers on it
22:52:44 <SimonRC> it kept crashing screen for me (fixed in a newer version of screen)
22:53:09 <AnMaster> SimonRC, why does screen care about it
22:53:34 <AnMaster> it doesn't need to actually render it, that is up to the terminal emulator
22:53:35 <SimonRC> because screen can do charset interpretation
22:53:42 <SimonRC> and screen has to know how wide it is
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22:56:34 <ehird> 22:46 Warrigal: I think I need to set my lunch.normish.org locale.
22:56:58 <ehird> wuzzu = what's that
22:57:10 <Warrigal> lunch.normish.org is my lunchhub.com development server.
22:57:12 <ehird> just grok the meaning from glorked context
22:57:31 <ehird> "Lunch Hub is a place where friends and co-workers can speed up the decision of where to go to lunch. This site makes it easy by laying out all the options and letting you announce where you want to go. "
22:57:33 <Warrigal> I'm going to install LAMP on it :-D
22:57:38 <ehird> that sure sounds like it needs a mega development server.
22:57:46 <oerjan> gliffle the gromp, fnibbles
22:57:46 <ehird> "the website you can literally eat at"?
22:57:53 <ehird> you can't eat at the website
22:57:55 <Warrigal> Yeah. I had to skip college to pay the $20 a month.
22:58:10 <ehird> it's even more wrong
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23:04:11 <ehird> Warrigal: You should switch to prgmr.com and get 1GB of RAM for the same price.
23:06:43 <Warrigal> I don't think the amount of RAM matters.
23:06:56 <Warrigal> I'll try to keep prgmr.com in mind, though.
23:07:19 <ehird> Warrigal: Also, 14GB more disk space .
23:07:32 <ehird> And 60GB more bandwidth.
23:07:37 <ehird> Warrigal: Also, IPv6.
23:08:00 <ehird> Warrigal: Also, faster CPU since it's less popular and they're Xen tweakers.
23:08:13 <ehird> Also, you can install any OS that Xen supports.
23:08:22 <ehird> Hmm, they don't seem to have IPv6 yet on their new servers, whatever
23:18:27 <AnMaster> SimonRC, auto generated code though
23:18:43 <oerjan> it has a nice symmetry, symbolizing the oppression of the lower castes
23:18:44 <AnMaster> SimonRC, it was p[1]+=255*p[5]; before
23:19:04 <AnMaster> SimonRC, do you think +=- is a improvement visually
23:19:17 <ehird> changing +=- into -= is trivial.
23:19:35 <AnMaster> ehird, except not: p[1]+=-p[5]+2*p[8];
23:19:36 <SimonRC> also, zero tests come out correct, unline what could happen with 255*
23:19:49 <AnMaster> you need to check there is only one single term after
23:20:11 <SimonRC> isn't that easy since you are using the parse tree?
23:20:33 <AnMaster> SimonRC, actually this is in the form of a polynomial, represented as a list of coefficients.
23:20:42 <SimonRC> well, if you add 255 256 times, you get 0 in BF, but not in C
23:20:54 <AnMaster> SimonRC, true, that was 255 though
23:21:01 <AnMaster> SimonRC, and you do in C if you use unsigned char
23:22:43 <AnMaster> SimonRC, also, at the point where it is easy to fix up, I don't have the assignment yet
23:22:55 <AnMaster> as in, I only have the bit after += or = or whatever there is
23:23:03 <AnMaster> I don't yet know if it is = or +=
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23:24:53 <ehird> Well, this is a new one. The threat of litigation to motivate people to do voluntary work.
23:26:36 <ehird> SimonRC: a patchset to GHC to make it compile stuff for the iPhone — http://upcycle.it/~blackh/iphone/LICENSE; summary (based on what they've said too): "We don't let people use this commercially yet so everyone focuses on integrating it with GHC!"
23:26:59 <ehird> a rather sour taste finds its way into my mouth via my screen.
23:30:47 <AnMaster> SimonRC, another result of this change:
23:32:57 <oerjan> um those -+ at the beginning are diff marks, not algebra, i assume?
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23:42:14 <jix_> there is probably a functional brainfuck variant out there right?
23:42:46 <AnMaster> procedural ones yes, but I don't know about functional ones
23:43:06 <jix_> i'm creating one right now...
23:43:19 <jix_> which is purely functional and tc
23:44:32 <jix_> ehird: i started with the idea that if you take haskell... you could define +-<>., to be of type IO
23:44:51 <ehird> jix_: that's... very warped :P
23:44:58 <jix_> then you could define some test function of type IO -> IO -> IO
23:45:20 <jix_> which runs the first parameter on nonzero and the 2nd on zero
23:45:42 <jix_> and then i started changing stuff from there on to avoid thousand usages of bind
23:45:44 <ehird> i think you have a very warped understanding of haskell :)
23:45:49 <ehird> but give some example code.
23:45:54 <ehird> it's not purely functional if you do everything in io
23:46:12 <jix_> ehird: the language itself is...
23:46:19 <ehird> yes, but that's just semantics
23:46:24 <jix_> in contrast to unlambda for example
23:46:34 <jix_> well then maybe that's the wrong word
23:47:08 <jix_> but you might have noticed that [ and ] aren't defind
23:47:24 <jix_> so it's not just a brainfuck template language
23:47:39 <jix_> as soon as you test a single cell.. you end up writing functional stuff
23:48:59 <AnMaster> jix_, how does that functional stuff look
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23:49:25 <jix_> for example to get a loop you'd need something like \x . x x
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23:49:57 <ehird> AnMaster: lambda calculus.
23:50:03 <ehird> methinks jix_ is a bit confused about how all this works :)
23:50:22 <jix_> ehird: in what way?
23:50:36 <ehird> jix_: well, \x. x x doesn't do anything in the LC
23:50:52 <jix_> ehird: well you have to apply it to something
23:51:54 <jix_> you could even use the bf part only for IO and do calculations using church encoded stuff
23:52:24 <ehird> so uh this is... haskell?
23:52:49 <AnMaster> ehird, wrong, haskell with a syntax that is a mix of lambda and bf
23:52:52 <ehird> your language seems incredibly ill-defined...
23:53:16 <jix_> ehird: maybe because i haven't written a complete spec
23:53:24 * oerjan swats AnMaster back -----###
23:53:54 * AnMaster deflects the swat with his o=========E
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