00:08:19 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
00:10:08 <ehird> 09:54:19 <ais523> wrf? Using the ehird meaning of "apparently", apparently in some cases IE8 can delete essential boot files in Windows whenever a computer with it installed on is booted, even if you don't run it
00:10:12 <ehird> what meaning would that be?
00:10:24 <ehird> 09:57:33 * ais523 reads about a critical security bug in Java on OSX
00:10:30 <ehird> 09:57:48 <GregorR-L> Meanwhile, GNU/Linux is all "Yeah, we like GCC. That's right bitches."
00:10:33 <ehird> yes, but they're insane
00:10:45 <ais523> ehird: where "apparently" means "I found a link on Reddit that said"
00:10:58 <ehird> ais523: that's compatible with the dictionary definition :)
00:11:30 <ehird> 10:01:41 <ais523> I suppose you could use suuda or something in order to have all the files on your system as text files
00:11:37 <ehird> write a short asm program to execute only code in [ to ]
00:11:41 <ehird> in printable chars
00:11:45 <ehird> Hello, this is the C compiler.
00:11:49 <ehird> [Adhkjdf] this prints the banner.
00:11:55 <ehird> We need to initialize, so, [dsfiouw98e58u98dfug89u985jodsf].
00:12:04 <ais523> that's literate machine code
00:12:13 <ehird> You can do jumps to simulate literate programming's rearrangement
00:12:29 <ehird> 10:02:46 <pikhq> Y'know what else would be fun? Have the entire distro be LVM binaries.
00:12:29 <ehird> 10:03:00 <pikhq> "JIT! JIT FTW!"
00:12:34 <ehird> please stop spreading that misconception pikhq
00:12:41 <ehird> LLVM _binaries_ are proper machine code
00:12:48 <ehird> just like your momma's c compiler.
00:12:53 <ehird> yes, it can JIT too.
00:12:59 <ehird> but the binaries are distinct from the JIT.
00:13:09 <ehird> there is no obstacle to making an LLVM kernel; just avoid its high-level shit.
00:13:15 <ais523> fun fact: none of the x86 branch or jump instructions happen to be printable characters
00:13:21 <ais523> so any printable-only machine code must be self-modifying
00:13:25 <ehird> 10:13:09 <ais523> apparently the installer modifies boot.ini to specify that it needs to do some finalisation after the boot
00:13:31 <ehird> that's basically why windows installers tell you to restart
00:13:41 <ehird> because they need to do OS-level initialization stuff
00:13:49 <ehird> then every other program did it too because it was expected :)
00:13:49 <ais523> yes, but modifying boot.ini is a crazy way to do it
00:14:01 <ais523> that's like wrapping init in order to run a daemon
00:14:03 <ehird> ais523: IE probably has to do ultra low level stuff
00:14:07 <ehird> and I guess boot.ini runs at that level
00:14:15 <ais523> yes, but you can get to that level various other ways
00:14:16 <ehird> ais523: remember, they've grafted it to the OS
00:14:32 <immibis> isn't ie 8 going to be optional in windows 7?
00:14:43 <ehird> immibis: it's just not going to ship w/ ie8 in europe
00:15:00 <ehird> immibis: they're trying to avoid the eu bashing them for antitrust
00:15:07 <ehird> but I don't really care; IE 8, as a browser, is ok
00:15:15 <ehird> it's catching up, rendering-wise
00:15:22 <ehird> if it was ie 6 i'd be more enthused
00:16:26 <ehird> ais523: relatedly, one of the "expert windows user" sort of people (the sort of person that uses Neowin, has a patched uxtheme.dll with a "minimalist" black theme, if they write C it's horribly contorted, newbish C because they're utterly detached from programming's reality, they use mIRC; you know the type I mean)
00:16:30 <ais523> the EU don't think that's enough of a situation, anyway
00:16:35 <ehird> ais523: told a forum I visit — authoritatively —
00:16:54 <ehird> ais523: that you have to wipe & reinstall windows on your computer every 6 months to keep it working well, in an everyone-knows-that tone.
00:17:11 <ais523> you don't /have/ to, but it's considerably easier than the other methods
00:17:17 <ais523> which mostly require being competent
00:17:19 <ehird> Of course, if they knew anything about how OSes work, they'd realize that that's utterly ridiculous and shouldn't be accepted.
00:17:25 <ehird> But no, it just is. "It's not surprising".
00:17:31 <ehird> It's just a routine thing you have to do.
00:17:50 <ehird> ais523: oh, and the kind of person that doesn't see why virus scanners are silly
00:18:16 <ehird> ais523: I pointed out that you could... fix the exploits... instead, but they mentioned prevention-is-better-than-cure. Because virus scanners magically detect new viruses
00:18:24 <ehird> very typical windows user...
00:18:49 <pikhq> I think it's very sad that Windows needs a virus scanner.
00:19:13 <pikhq> Really, most of Windows is very sad.
00:19:52 <ehird> microsoft should hire a bunch of people who just know a little bit about programming and OSes
00:19:54 <immibis> personally i don't think virus scanners are silly
00:19:56 <ehird> and ask them how to restructure windows
00:20:00 * immibis writes a linux virus to prove his point
00:20:03 <pikhq> immibis: And what OS do you use?
00:20:05 <ehird> and they'll get a load of bloomin' obvious answers that'd make windows 50000000x better
00:20:09 <ais523> immibis: the problem is, getting people to run it
00:20:10 <ehird> immibis: You're an idiot.
00:20:13 <immibis> windows because i'm forced to
00:20:24 <ehird> immibis: Virus scanners are like covering your body with rubber.
00:20:32 <ehird> Sure, it's "prevention". But just stick a fucking plaster on.
00:20:37 <pikhq> ehird: Heck, I know of one single thing that would make writing programs for Windows better.
00:20:52 <pikhq> Make the API not require a superset of C.
00:21:03 <ehird> pikhq: No. GObject, dude.
00:21:11 <ehird> Shoehorning OO designs onto C = fail.
00:21:14 <ehird> And GUIs are very much OO.
00:21:34 <ehird> pikhq: C# is becoming the new recommended applications language for Windows.
00:21:50 <ehird> They just need to rewrite explorer.exe in it, and everyone else will use it.
00:21:52 <pikhq> And it's implemented on Win32, making sure that it's still a mess.
00:22:00 <ehird> pikhq: That's an implementation detail.
00:22:02 <pikhq> Especially since it exposes Win32.
00:22:10 <ehird> pikhq: Yes, but you're Not Meant To Do That.
00:22:19 <pikhq> And everybody does that.
00:22:40 <ehird> pikhq: Not everyone.
00:22:45 <ehird> Desktop apps generally don't.
00:22:56 <pikhq> Obviously, anyone who cares about Mono doesn't.
00:23:02 <ehird> Hey, anyone remember Windows Longhorn chatter circa 2004?
00:23:11 <ehird> WinFS! It's a semantic dooblefoob searchifilesystem!
00:23:18 <ehird> Microsoft: solving problems nobody has.
00:23:26 <ehird> Ooh, and an *awful* interface: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Windows_Longhorn_Build_4008.png
00:23:31 <ehird> It's like a really bad windows XP theme.
00:23:37 <ehird> Because that's what it is.
00:23:37 <pikhq> All this doesn't change that Win32 is an awful, awful API.
00:24:08 <pikhq> Make it straight freaking C or C++ for GUI stuff and C for CLI stuff or s/C++/Objective C/.
00:24:26 <ehird> Or just move over to .NET and its GUI library thingy; it seems quite nice.
00:24:47 <ehird> Of course, Windows until 7 ran the Windows 3.11 bundled programs.
00:24:49 <ehird> Without modification.
00:24:57 <pikhq> What, and completely toss C?
00:24:57 <ehird> So the underlying Win32 is going to be around for a very, very long time.
00:25:11 <GregorR> pikhq: Nah, there's C .NET
00:25:12 <ehird> pikhq: No. Use C for the kernel, and implementing .NET and C#.
00:25:23 <ehird> pikhq: You can use C for the windowing manager and everything too.
00:25:48 <ehird> pikhq: No, that's a sane design for an easy OO operating system.
00:25:54 <ehird> You write the kernel in C, like any proper person would.
00:26:06 <ehird> You write your framework in C, because you'd do that anyway.
00:26:13 <ehird> You write your drivers and shit in C, because they're related to the kernel.
00:26:26 <ehird> You write your window manager in C, because it has to be really fast and quite close to the kernel.
00:26:28 <pikhq> Sure, if you're doing only lightweight GUI code. ... Or like having a supercomputer just to do some encoding.
00:26:33 <ehird> Finally, you write your user-exposed GUI shit in C#.
00:26:42 <ehird> pikhq: Dude, C# has a C FFI.
00:26:51 <ehird> Write your super code in a DLL in C, bind it to C# for your GUI.
00:26:56 <pikhq> ehird: Then you'll keep a C API.
00:27:04 <ehird> pikhq: No you won't.
00:27:07 <pikhq> Which is not what you're suggesting.
00:27:09 <ehird> pikhq: Well, sure; a low-level one.
00:27:20 <ehird> pikhq: But don't expose your regular GUI lib.
00:27:32 <ehird> pikhq: Win32 is a bag o' random "goodies".
00:27:35 <pikhq> Oh, make the GUI only exposed via C#?
00:27:36 <ehird> I'm imagining a much smaller library.
00:27:37 <GregorR> The conversations on here never fail to WTF me.
00:27:51 <ehird> GregorR: We're talking about improving Windows without being too revolutionary.
00:27:53 <ehird> That's a WTF topic.
00:28:04 <ehird> pikhq: No, not just via C#.
00:28:13 * pikhq suspects that ehird hates the idea of non-C# languages being used
00:28:29 <ehird> Make it a .NET library written in C# whose implementation binds to the kernel/window manager functions, written in C.
00:28:54 * pikhq goes to do something saner than think about a C#-only GUI API. Like implement Malbolge in Malbolge.
00:29:11 <ehird> pikhq: what's your obsession with C++
00:29:14 <pikhq> ehird: You sir are the single most insane person I have met.
00:29:21 <pikhq> Have you considered a job at Microsoft?
00:29:22 <ehird> pikhq: do you think .NET is some kind of ultra-slow shit implementation?
00:29:34 <ehird> you're very adamant about using a low-level language
00:29:38 <ehird> I don't know why you think that will improve things
00:29:47 <ehird> "Use a low-level—" never improves things.
00:30:29 <ehird> pikhq: Never. Sir, I want to make my own lisp machine. It should be fairly obvious.
00:30:44 <ehird> Low-level languages that don't have to be (e.g. because they're machine code) are a travesty.
00:31:02 <immibis> ehird: write a kernel in c#
00:31:10 <pikhq> immibis: Microsoft did it.
00:31:22 <ehird> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/groups/os/singularity/
00:31:28 <pikhq> Yes, there is no hope of anything good coming from Microsoft.
00:31:37 <ehird> pikhq: you're just a C fanboy.
00:31:54 <lament> it's like haskell, but usable
00:31:55 <ehird> and I hate microsoft.
00:32:01 <ehird> but I don't think C > C#.
00:32:36 <ehird> Bring back Lisp Machines! Write the OS in Lisp and let the user-mode language be Haskell!
00:32:49 <ehird> VIVA LA GRAPH REDUCIÓN!
00:33:23 <pikhq> You say this because you are unfamiliar with anything more low-level than a simple GUI. :P
00:33:32 <ehird> pikhq: ...says who?
00:33:42 <pikhq> Says your love of C#.
00:33:46 <ehird> pikhq: I. Hate. C#.
00:33:50 <ehird> But. I. Hate. C. More.
00:34:08 <ehird> ais523: F# is almost identical to OCaml on .NET, it's ridiculous.
00:34:17 <ehird> But since OCaml isn't all that bad, it's half good. The half that isn't .NET.
00:34:20 * pikhq begs ehird to devise a better semi-lowlevel language.
00:34:33 <ais523> do you like .NET itself, btw?
00:34:39 <ehird> ais523: 00:31 ehird: I hate .NET
00:34:44 <pikhq> ehird: Sure, if you're on a Lisp machine.
00:34:48 <ehird> though mostly the libraries
00:34:59 <ehird> pikhq: I don't believe that is necessary (although it is ideal)
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00:35:31 <ehird> pikhq: Here's a million dollars of venture capital, kid; get yourself a better machine architecture, a better compiler, a better garbage collector, a better API, and a better UI.
00:35:39 <ehird> (Please, please do.)
00:35:49 <lament> you know what's better?
00:36:02 <ehird> lament: Absolutely.
00:36:08 <ehird> Do you know what that doesn't mean, lament?
00:36:10 <ehird> What you think it means. :)
00:36:12 <pikhq> You do know that Lisp machines fell out of use because... A conventional system was faster at executing Lisp, right?
00:36:33 <ehird> pikhq: Sorry, false dichotomy! A good Lisp Machine will always beat a good x86 for executing Lisp.
00:36:34 <lament> ehird: it's the conventional explanation for why lisp machines suck
00:36:45 <ehird> The Lisp Machines just weren't as good as other machines.
00:36:58 <ehird> lament: You can easily make a worse-is-better lisp machine.
00:37:03 <ehird> "Worse is better" != "x86 is better"
00:37:12 <pikhq> And a good Lisp machine is harder than a good x86.
00:37:19 <pikhq> ... Which is harder than a good almost-anything-else.
00:40:33 <ehird> pikhq: No, no it's not :P
00:41:10 <pikhq> Then why don't we see any Lisp machines *at all*?
00:41:26 <pikhq> Surely a good Lisp machine would have at least a niche market?
00:41:30 <ehird> pikhq: Because Windows only runs on x86, inventing a new micro-architecture is expensive, and lisp machines failed in the 80s.
00:41:45 <pikhq> ... There's more than x86 out there.
00:41:53 <ehird> pikhq: Yes, there is.
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00:42:12 <ehird> pikhq: How much of that is new architectures? How many of those new architectures aren't in things like game consoles, where the architecture is irrelevant?
00:42:42 <pikhq> And those are all RISC, because non-(Intel|AMD) companies don't have the resources to dump into making a good x86 chip.
00:43:04 <pikhq> "Where architecture is irrelevant?"
00:43:12 <ehird> pikhq: Sure - they control the OS.
00:43:15 <ehird> And all the software.
00:43:18 <ehird> Compatibility - not an issue.
00:43:29 <immibis> pikhq: are you suggesting RISC is inferior?
00:43:36 <ehird> pikhq: How many of the new architectures aren't funded by BIG companies for big products, like Sony and IBM for the Playstation 3's Cell?
00:43:36 <pikhq> Congrats, you managed to remove everything but Windows and OS X from the discussion.
00:43:43 <pikhq> immibis: No, I'm saying it's easier to do well.
00:44:06 <ehird> pikhq: You surely see now why inventing, creating and marketing a Lisp Machine is almost impossible in the present day.
00:44:23 <ehird> Then you are insane.
00:44:44 <pikhq> There'd be a niche market for them if they were higher performance than a standard system for Lisp.
00:44:55 <ehird> pikhq: Nobody fucking uses Lisp.
00:44:59 <pikhq> Just like there's a niche market for ARM, and Cell, and MIPS, etc.
00:45:01 <ehird> This is not because lisp is inferior.
00:45:09 <ehird> This is because the lisp ecosystems are inferior.
00:45:12 <ehird> This is because nobody big uses lisp.
00:45:17 <ehird> This is because lisp isn't popular after the AI winter.
00:45:23 <ehird> This. is. not. because. Lisp. is. inferior.
00:45:37 <ehird> The exact same applies to a Lisp Machine, but Lisp Machines are more expensive and difficult to make than a Lisp implementation, so moreso.
00:45:39 <pikhq> The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
00:46:47 * pikhq observes that ehird is a bitter old man in a 14-year-old's body
00:47:03 <ehird> It is not August yet :-P
00:47:43 <ehird> I have hated computers ever since I deleted all the files in C:\WINDOWS and it crashed. :)
00:47:51 <ehird> (3? 4? years old.)
00:50:25 <pikhq> You lost your ability to sound reasonable about when you suggested that C# be used as a systems programming language, BTW.
00:50:41 <ehird> pikhq: I meant "a high-level programming language", not specifically C#.
00:51:14 <GregorR> I see the conversation has accomplished a lot while I was practicing.
00:51:20 <pikhq> And what is the aforementioned high-level programming language going to be written in?
00:51:47 <ehird> pikhq: You really can't see beyond x86 and C, can you?
00:52:09 <ehird> That's "The World of Programming Languages Suited to Doing Things that Involve, In Part, Poking Bits at Hardware".
00:52:40 <pikhq> Yes, that's what you typically implement high-level languages in.
00:56:28 <ehird> Anyway, pikhq, you're a bloody conservative and you will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. Then Windows 57 will be released and Intel will announce the x86-O-Tron 300XESDJAH and it will be over, and you'll never end up getting shot.
00:57:11 <lament> C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C
00:57:12 <pikhq> All this ignores that if any high-level language replaces C, it'll be eerily similar to Erlang.
00:57:20 <ehird> pikhq: Hahahahaha.
00:57:24 <lament> asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm asm
00:57:30 <ehird> No, it won't, because nobody uses Erlang, and Erlang sucks.
00:57:40 <ehird> Maybe you meant to say "I like Erlang" :-)
00:57:40 <lament> tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl
00:57:58 <GregorR> tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl ERLANG ERLANG
00:58:01 <GregorR> A tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl ERLANG ERLANG
00:58:05 <GregorR> A tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl tcl ERLANG ERLANG
00:58:08 <ehird> GregorR: SCHEME, SCHEME
00:58:08 <immibis> insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere insertlanguagehere
00:58:39 <lament> language language language language language language language language language language language language
00:59:57 <ehird> a marijuana marijuana marijuana marijuana marijuana MUSHROOMS MUSHROOMS
01:00:02 <ais523> a COBOL, a COBOL a COBOL a COBOL!
01:00:17 <ehird> ais523: THAT DOES NOT FIT WITH THE SONG.
01:00:29 <ais523> yes it does, it's substituting for the snake
01:00:33 <ais523> although arguably I should have used Python
01:00:36 <GregorR> ehird: Neither did yours, even ignoring the fact that the individual words had two many syllables
01:00:45 <ehird> GregorR: It was closer than his.
01:00:55 * pikhq invites ehird to devise of a way to have this hypothetical "Only one high-level language API" support more than one language
01:01:00 <ehird> GregorR: although there should be one more, cutting off at "marijua—"
01:01:13 <GregorR> ehird: No, not cutting off at all.
01:01:20 <GregorR> ehird: There should be exactly one more.
01:01:22 <pikhq> Or, in the case of .Net, more than one set of languages with a common environment.
01:01:57 <ehird> pikhq: i don't really bother discussing new language/os ideas with people entrenched in the x86/BIOS/Unix-alike/C environment because they're unlikely to change their mind on it
01:02:05 <lament> too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables too many syllables MUSHROOM MUSHROOM
01:02:07 <ehird> GregorR: really? my listening to the song suggests not
01:02:27 <pikhq> ehird: So, you prefer preaching to the choir.
01:02:32 <ehird> GregorR: no, add "mmarijuana ma—"
01:02:32 <pikhq> Might I interest you in a job at Microsoft?
01:02:39 <ehird> i just listened to check
01:02:54 <ehird> pikhq: not necessarily the choir. I just don't preach to the satanists.
01:03:27 <lament> this microsoft job you guys keep throwing around
01:03:39 <ehird> lament: ask pikhq, he's the one offering it
01:03:49 <ehird> lament: "argumentum ad haha, you should work for microsoft", I believe
01:04:26 <pikhq> lament: Ask at www.microsoft.com
01:04:41 <pikhq> And enjoy the insanity that is thinking that .Net was a good idea.
01:05:06 <lament> i thought you said .com
01:05:10 <ehird> pikhq is a sysadmin, i think convincing him there's anything better than unix is physically impossible :)
01:05:18 <lament> i've never heard of www.microsoft.Net
01:05:30 <pikhq> ehird: Oh, there's plent of things better than Unix.
01:05:43 <pikhq> What you're suggesting is not one of them.
01:05:53 <ehird> pikhq: OK, anything better than an environment of hodge-podged shell scripts.
01:06:02 <ehird> Since that's what sysadmins write all day ;-P
01:06:14 * GregorR swims through seaaaaaaaaaas of shell scripts.
01:06:21 <GregorR> EgoBot: Hello my shelly friend!
01:06:53 <pikhq> ehird: I wish that you may one day be forced to use the environment you suggest.
01:07:02 <ehird> pikhq: I'm working on that.
01:07:13 <ehird> To end the argument, let's all listen to a song about getting high with dinosaurs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_23TGMeYrgw
01:07:19 <ehird> I believe this will resolve all disputes.
01:07:33 <GregorR> With a promise like that, how couldn't it?
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01:13:34 <ehird> pikhq: Anyway, you're fucking nuts. (Isn't sodomy forbidden by the Bible?)
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01:54:00 <immibis> can someone try version'ing me to see what happens?
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02:10:32 <GregorR> ehird: http://codu.org/algorhythms/
02:10:40 <GregorR> -immibis- VERSION http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client .1864
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02:30:56 <pikhq> GregorR: Aaaw, not RawIRC.
02:32:22 <GregorR> For the first time, my wearable is booting entirely under its own power :)
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03:09:53 <GregorR> KANTenKLAARmaaltijd has made a comment on Dutch Winnie the Pooh in English:
03:09:54 <GregorR> It's not the right translation.
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03:29:37 <GregorR> http://codu.org/algorhythms/getmidi.php?mpid=Grumpily+Glib+Sonata // lawl sweet
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05:22:51 <ais523> hmm... the motion to end SCO was heard today
05:23:09 <ais523> and the result: hearing postponed until July 16, 13 days from now
05:23:23 <ais523> the mathematical impossibility was required to comply with the relevant laws
05:23:40 <ais523> so the upshot: SCO litigation is now capable of time travel
05:30:04 <pikhq> Wow. I got a CTCP response for that.
05:31:51 <ais523> coppro: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090615195402823
05:32:22 <immibis> seriously? a response for a ctcp ACTION?
05:33:35 * ais523 agrees to the following contract with myndzi, binding under the rules of Agora: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other contract to cause them to register. This contract terminates 4 hours after it is created.}}}
05:33:36 * myndzi agrees to the following contract with ais523, binding under the rules of Agora: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other contract to cause them to register. This contract terminates 4 hours after it is created.}}}
05:34:16 <pikhq> ais523: I approve.
05:34:33 <coppro> wait, needs to be done by announcement
05:34:35 <Warrigal> coppro, you're already registered, aren't you?
05:34:40 <Warrigal> In fact, you're Sean Hunt, aren't you?
05:34:45 <coppro> yes, but then I can register myndzi!
05:35:04 <immibis> "on behalf of any other contract"?
05:35:15 <coppro> eh, ais523, you need to fix that
05:35:26 * pikhq agrees to the following contract with myndzi: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of another party to cause em to to register.}}}
05:35:26 * ais523 agrees to the following contract with myndzi, binding under the rules of Agora: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other party to cause them to register. This contract terminates 4 hours after it is created.}}}
05:35:27 * myndzi agrees to the following contract with pikhq: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of another party to cause em to to register.}}}
05:35:27 * myndzi agrees to the following contract with ais523, binding under the rules of Agora: {{{Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other party to cause them to register. This contract terminates 4 hours after it is created.}}}
05:35:44 <ais523> so who's going to do the honours?
05:36:13 <Warrigal> I agree to the contract that ais523 and myndzi agreed to at 00:33 local time.
05:36:21 <Warrigal> I guess I'll do the honors, then.
05:36:26 <ais523> Warrigal: not the first one
05:36:36 * immibis fails to understand the contract
05:36:55 <pikhq> immibis: www.agoranomic.org
05:37:10 <Warrigal> I agree to the contract ais523 and myndzi agreed to at 00:35 local time.
05:38:05 <immibis> what exactly does that script do?
05:38:08 <ais523> ok, I'll do the registering of myndzi
05:38:10 * myndzi tests immibis's script
05:39:06 <pikhq> ais523: Already did.
05:39:27 <ais523> I'll send mine anyway, just in case
05:39:48 <coppro> hmm... I've got a funny idea
05:40:05 <ais523> anyway, this conversation should probably move to ##nomic
05:40:23 <coppro> ais523, Warrigal, you two should make a moustrap contract which I join, hoping to lure other players to join without knowing what it is
05:40:46 <ais523> I live in UTC, and I need to get home in time to wake up this morning
05:41:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:42:23 <Warrigal> I have a feeling pikhq was using combining characters.
05:42:53 * coppro records myndzi as "questionably a player"
05:42:54 * myndzi records coppro as "questionably a player"
05:43:44 <coppro> pikhq, warrigal, want to try a mousetrap out
05:44:19 <Corun> What y'all doing to my IRC client :-<
05:44:23 <coppro> immibis: a moustrap is a contract designed to be binding a player to stuff they don't want
05:44:40 <coppro> here, I'll get the link
05:45:01 <coppro> http://www.nomic.net/~nomicwiki/index.php/MousetrapThesis
05:45:08 * Warrigal agrees to the following: {Warrigal may act on my behalf by announcement.} Also, myndzi.
05:45:09 * myndzi agrees to the following: {myndzi may act on my behalf by announcement.} Also, Warrigal.
05:45:14 * Corun rotates pikhq in to a non-existant dimension
05:46:00 * immibis agrees to the following: {The player whose name is the concatenation of the strings "immi" and "bis" may act on my behalf by announcement.}
05:46:03 * Warrigal agrees to the following: {Warrie (a.k.a. Ivan, Tom) may act on my behalf by announcement.} Also, myndzi.
05:46:03 * myndzi agrees to the following: {Warrie (a.k.a. Ivan, Tom) may act on my behalf by announcement.} Also, Warrigal.
05:46:15 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:46:19 <immibis> since i'm not on agoranomic whatever i say hardly applies
05:46:33 <Warrigal> Agora recognizes lots of actions performed by non-players.
05:46:42 * Warrigal myndzi myndzi myndzimyndzi myndzi
05:46:43 * myndzi Warrigal Warrigal myndzi Warrigal
05:46:52 * coppro agrees to the following: {coppro may act on behalf of me by announcement}
05:47:04 * coppro agrees to the following: {coppro may act on behalf of me by announcement}, triggering myndzi
05:47:04 * myndzi agrees to the following: {coppro may act on behalf of me by announcement}, triggering coppro
05:47:21 * immibis gets a real irc client so he can stop using mibbit
05:47:28 <immibis> what would you suggest? something scriptable that runs on windows
05:49:12 <immibis> mIRC isn't free...Chatzilla is a firefox addon (so probably slow)
05:49:52 <coppro> Warrigal, pikhq, what conditions do we want in our trap?
05:50:17 <Warrigal> coppro: I want to be able to withdraw any proposal they submit and resubmit it under my own name.
05:50:44 <Warrigal> And would probably result in all the proposals failing. :-P
05:50:45 <coppro> but it's hard to enforce :(
05:51:10 <Warrigal> Anyway, for IRC, I always use irssi on normish.org.
05:51:21 <Warrigal> And connect to it from PuTTY whenever I'm on Windows.
05:52:29 <Warrigal> It works well. There's usually no lag, and I stay connected.
05:52:50 <Warrigal> An account on normish.org is pretty much available to anyone who asks.
05:55:01 <coppro> Why not just put act-on-behalf?
05:55:07 <coppro> it would be funnier that ay
05:56:23 <coppro> http://pastie.org/private/jfxwxuozod3vloksxbgdhq
05:56:39 <coppro> Warrigal and pikhq, agree to that
05:58:11 <Warrigal> pikhq and coppro, I join that contract.
05:58:15 <immibis> mibbit should have proper ctcp, i had to copy-paste ascii 0x01 to get that
05:58:29 * pikhq agrees to that contract
05:59:09 * pikhq agrees to the contract at http://pastie.org/private/jfxwxuozod3vloksxbgdhq; thanks, myndzi.
05:59:10 * myndzi agrees to the contract at http://pastie.org/private/jfxwxuozod3vloksxbgdhq; thanks, pikhq.
06:00:10 <pikhq> I consider myself well-notified.
06:00:17 <pikhq> The AFO, BTW, does *not* join that contract.
06:02:38 <Warrigal> coppro: immibis, I assume you're notified.
06:05:50 <coppro> let's see how many people it grabs
06:06:35 <coppro> shall we notify the Notary? E obviously knows of the plan
06:08:01 <coppro> actually, do you guys consent to appending "With consent of the Prime Members, the Notary can reveal this contract to Agora."
06:08:26 * coppro I, coppro, consent to that change to the contract between em, pikhq, myndzi, and Warrigal
06:08:27 * myndzi I, myndzi, consent to that change to the contract between em, pikhq, coppro, and Warrigal
06:15:29 * Warrigal gives myndzi a proper nickname, perhaps.
06:15:29 * myndzi gives Warrigal a proper nickname, perhaps.
06:18:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
06:32:28 <immibis> ok that is seriously glitched
06:32:53 * immibis Testing. immibis myndzi immibisimmibis myndzimyndzi
06:32:54 * myndzi Testing. myndzi immibis myndzi myndzi
06:33:12 * immibis slaps myndzimyndzi with a rainbow trout
06:33:21 * immibis slaps myndzimyndzi with a rainbow trout (myndzi)
06:33:21 * myndzi slaps myndzi with a rainbow trout (immibis)
06:33:28 * immibis slaps myndzimyndzi with a rainbow trout called myndzi
06:33:29 * myndzi slaps myndzi with a rainbow trout called immibis
06:33:34 <immibis> hey i'm not a rainbow trout!
06:34:00 <oerjan> it's the internet, how can he know
06:34:53 * immibis slaps himself or herself only if his or her name is myndzimyndzi
06:35:03 * immibis slaps himself or herself only if his or her name is myndzimyndzi. immibis is talking to myndzi.
06:35:04 * myndzi slaps himself or herself only if his or her name is myndzi. myndzi is talking to immibis.
06:35:54 * oerjan tickles myndzi with the patented oerjanfeather
06:35:55 * myndzi timyndziyndzmyndzierjanfeather
06:36:14 <oerjan> someone mentioned glitches? :D
06:36:25 * immibis slaps myndzi with the patented oerjanfeather
06:36:26 * myndzi slaps immibis with the patented oerjanfeather
06:36:34 <oerjan> has to be your own nick
06:36:34 * immibis slaps myndzi with the patented immibisfeather
06:36:35 * myndzi slmyndziyndzmyndzimmibisfeather
06:36:51 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibis*******
06:36:52 * myndzi ** immibis **** *** ******** myndzi*******
06:36:58 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf*******
06:36:59 * myndzi **myndziyndzmyndzimmibisf*******
06:37:03 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf
06:37:08 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf*
06:37:13 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf****
06:37:27 * immibis ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf*******
06:37:38 <immibis> i wonder what kind of script glitches like that
06:37:42 <oerjan> you are being ignored now
06:37:55 <immibis> it would have to be incredibly badly written
06:38:00 -!- immibis has changed nick to immibis_.
06:38:11 * immibis_ ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibisf*********
06:38:11 * myndzi thinks immibis ** immibis_ **** *** ******** immibisf*********
06:38:13 <oerjan> indeed, regular expressions shouldn't cause something like that
06:38:28 * immibis_ ** myndzi **** *** ******** immibis_f*********
06:38:29 * myndzi thinks immibis **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis_f*********
06:38:41 * immibis_ ** myndzi **** *** immibis_f*********
06:38:42 * myndzi thinks immibis **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis_f*********
06:38:42 <oerjan> immibis_: it tracks nicks, and is sarcastic if you change it
06:38:53 <immibis_> how do you know so much about it
06:38:57 * immibis_ ** myndzi **** immibis_f*********
06:38:57 * myndzi thinks immibis **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis_f*********
06:39:06 <oerjan> because myndzi demonstrated it...
06:39:22 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis__.
06:39:25 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis__f*********
06:39:26 <oerjan> but not the glitches...
06:39:35 <immibis__> pretty stupid throttling if its fooled by a nick change
06:39:38 * myndzi **myndziyndzmyndziopprof****
06:39:49 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis__f
06:39:53 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__ myndzi
06:40:03 * myndzi thinks immibis_ * immibis__ myndzi?
06:40:10 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__ myndzi?
06:40:15 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis__h
06:40:24 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndziyndzmyndzimmibis__immibis__1
06:40:29 * coppro myndzi, can you reply correctly?
06:40:30 * myndzi coppro, can you reply correctly?
06:40:55 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndzimmibis__f immibis__
06:40:58 * oerjan wonders what myndzi will do with a postoerjan
06:41:09 <oerjan> something horrible, it seems
06:41:26 * immibis__ myndzi somethingimmibis__somethingelse
06:41:26 * myndzi thinks immibis_ immibis__ somethingimmibis__somethingelse
06:41:39 * immibis__ ** myndzi somethingimmibis__somethingelse
06:41:39 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__ somethingimmibis__somethingelse
06:41:56 * myndzi thinks immibis_ **myndziyndzmyndzi
06:42:11 <oerjan> oh it tracks _one_ nick change, but not over two...
06:42:24 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__ \n myndzi
06:42:35 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__\\ myndzi
06:42:46 * myndzi thinks immibis_ ** immibis__ aimmibis__a
06:43:32 * immibis__ says something to myndzi fromimmibis__
06:43:33 * myndzi thinks immibis_ samyndziyndzmyndzi
06:43:49 * myndzi thinks immibis_ fumyndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:05 * myndzi thinks immibis_ abmyndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:12 * myndzi thinks immibis_ a myndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:14 * oerjan guesses that myndzi is calculating the length of substrings wrongly
06:44:14 * myndzi guesses that oerjan is calculating the length of substrings wrongly
06:44:19 * myndzi thinks immibis_ cmyndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:27 * myndzi thinks immibis_ f myndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:32 * myndzi thinks immibis_ mmyndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:38 * myndzi thinks immibis_ mmyndziyndzmyndzi
06:44:44 -!- immibis__ has changed nick to RatherUnnecessar.
06:45:12 * RatherUnnecessar tells myndzi his nick was supposed to be RatherUnnecessarilyLongNick
06:45:39 -!- RatherUnnecessar has changed nick to b.
06:45:53 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar b a__f
06:46:00 * b * myndzi a__f
06:46:01 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * b a__f
06:46:06 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * b af
06:46:14 -!- b has changed nick to c.
06:46:17 -!- c has changed nick to d.
06:46:39 -!- d has changed nick to immibis.
06:46:48 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * myndziyndzmyndzimmibisf
06:47:04 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * immibis iimmibisf
06:47:09 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * myndziyndzmyndzi
06:47:43 * immibis * myndzi RatherUnnecessarimmibis
06:47:43 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * myndziyndzmyndzi
06:47:54 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * immibis * * myndzi
06:47:59 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * immibis * myndzi
06:48:06 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * myndziyndzmyndzimmibisf
06:48:14 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar * myndziyndzmyndzi
06:48:57 * lament can't decide whom to ban first.
06:49:22 * coppro thinks that you should ban myndzi first
06:49:22 * myndzi thinks that you should ban coppro first
06:50:30 <immibis> hey at least its not the time i got my script messed up so it would say "Pong! Ping!" every time anyone said anything
06:52:17 <oerjan> augur: we discovered myndzi's script has some glitches...
06:52:20 <immibis> me causing glitches in myndzi's script
06:52:51 <augur> what script is this
06:52:52 <myndzi> someone was having fun
06:53:15 <oerjan> a very cheerful script \o/
06:53:15 <augur> and you took advantage of it repeatedly.
06:53:24 * immibis says something to myndzi about the immibisthing
06:53:25 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar samyndziyndzmyndzimmibisthing
06:53:47 <augur> what does this script do?
06:54:38 <oerjan> it responds to /me's with myndzi's nick in them, but its parsing is broken
06:54:41 <immibis> basically swaps your nick and myndzi's in actions
06:54:46 * myndzi thinks RatherUnnecessar talks to immibis
06:54:51 -!- jokido has joined.
06:54:52 <oerjan> when either nick is part of a larger word
06:55:03 <immibis> ignoring the fact that i changed my name to RatherUnnecessar to try and test it
06:55:29 <augur> sounds like a simple script
06:55:31 <oerjan> also it tracks nicks changes, but not perfectly
06:55:35 -!- immibis_ has joined.
06:55:46 -!- immibis has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
06:55:46 <augur> tracks nick changes?
06:55:51 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
06:56:17 <Warrigal> La la la la \o/ is fun; la la la la \o/ is fun.
06:56:27 <lament> that's a ridiculously useful script
06:56:33 <Warrigal> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \
06:56:34 <myndzi> |\ >\ /| /'\ /| /'\ /| /| |\ /|
06:56:40 <augur> haha hes got a cock :D
06:56:48 -!- jokido has quit ("Leaving").
06:56:54 <Warrigal> And the probability that there is more to see is... I dunno.
06:57:25 -!- CESSMASTER has joined.
06:57:50 <Warrigal> Probabilities never have plus-or-minus.
06:58:01 <oerjan> CESSMASTER: yes, that's about right :D
06:58:11 <dbc> CESSMASTER, an uncommonly non-alphanumeric one, by the look of it.
06:58:22 <myndzi> LOL holy shit wtf is that
06:58:34 <augur> hes scratching his head
06:58:37 <coppro> was that the script too?
06:59:07 <augur> guy with both arms behind his head
06:59:13 <augur> with sticks in his arms
06:59:25 * coppro needs to switch to a fixed-width fond
06:59:40 <augur> your fixed width magic isnt working for me Gracenotes
06:59:44 <coppro> I get the feeling CESSMASTER will fit right in
06:59:53 * immibis needs to get a client with utf-8 support...
07:00:00 <Gracenotes> augur: odd. it was originally written for variable-width
07:00:04 <Warrigal> ªēīºū: as you can see, my compose key does not allow me to easily type a or o with macron.
07:00:06 <lament> yep, it's variable width
07:00:07 * immibis sees a bunch of a-tilde-things and euro signs
07:00:13 <lament> so it depends on what font you see it in
07:00:17 <augur> well im using fixed width.
07:00:37 <Gracenotes> augur: I'm using fixed width on IRC too and it looks fine for me
07:00:47 <augur> well your fixed width is lame.
07:00:51 <CESSMASTER> ☃, for all you chumps without UTF-8, is the best unicode character ever
07:00:52 <augur> my encoding is fix
07:00:54 <dbc> Fixed width is great for all kinds of computer-related stuff. Not good for books or that kind of thing, of course.
07:01:00 <lament> Gracenotes: i don't think you're using fixed width.
07:01:05 <augur> my client can handle utf perfectly fine
07:01:14 <augur> i see all your utf
07:01:20 <augur> what im not seeing is hyour alignment
07:01:21 <myndzi> i see you guys have been having fun
07:01:24 <CESSMASTER> monospace is like capslock without the loud
07:01:35 <myndzi> i have no idea what the weird nick-in-larger-string bug is about
07:01:39 <myndzi> too drunk to troubleshoot it right now
07:01:40 <Gracenotes> 2ch-style graphics do not align perfectly
07:01:46 <coppro> myndzi: welcome to Agora!
07:01:52 <augur> Gracenotes: they do in original japanese.
07:01:55 <myndzi> also i don't play nomic or i wouldn't be so silly as to have such a script in such a channel ;)
07:01:58 <augur> yours, however, do not align at all.
07:02:09 <lament> my alignment can beat up your alignment.
07:02:10 <CESSMASTER> myndzi: you should make it draw an upside-down person when someone types >/
07:02:11 <augur> theres something with japanese fonts
07:02:19 <augur> i dont know what it is, but ive seen it happen
07:02:31 <myndzi> coppro: you can think so all you want, but i still won't participate
07:02:38 <Gracenotes> augur: take a screenshot and post it here
07:02:42 <myndzi> you may as well enroll a bot
07:02:48 <coppro> yes, that was sort of the point
07:02:49 <lament> myndzi: and if someone types >\ you should add the head and the torso immediately before they say it
07:02:52 <augur> ok post something new so i can give you a whole screenshot
07:03:06 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:03:09 <myndzi> lament: that'd be a pretty l33t script
07:03:13 <Gracenotes> augur: don't you have scrollback? Are you using a terminal-based client?
07:03:16 <Warrigal> lament: what if they type >\>\>\?
07:03:23 <myndzi> did you guys know about \m/ \m/ ?
07:03:27 <augur> i do have scrollback but the previous ones were interrupted
07:03:29 <Warrigal> I guess the characters will have to overlap.
07:03:38 <augur> good lord what is that myndzi
07:03:46 <lament> Warrigal: no big deal. Doesn't unicode support quantum superposition?
07:03:55 <myndzi> -\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-\m/-
07:04:00 <CESSMASTER> myndzi: you're officially the first person ever to tempt me to switch to monospace
07:04:10 <myndzi> -\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/--\m/ \m/-
07:04:11 <myndzi> `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´
07:04:11 <myndzi> /´\ (_|¯'\ /`\ /`¯|_) /`\ (_|¯`¯|_) /`\ (_|¯´\ /`\
07:04:12 <myndzi> (_| |_) |_) (_| |_) (_| (_| |_) (_| |_) |_) (_| |_)
07:04:19 <Warrigal> \o/ \o/ \m/ \m/ \o/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \o/ \m/ \m/
07:04:27 <lament> myndzi: that's the most beautiful thing ever.
07:04:39 <myndzi> i think the loner \m/ threw it off
07:04:39 <augur> howsit work myndzi
07:04:50 <myndzi> nobody's ever found so many bugs in so little time
07:05:02 <myndzi> 1) there has to be space to put him in
07:05:08 <lament> myndzi: with many bugs, all eyes are shallow
07:05:09 <myndzi> 2) there has to be space to put him in
07:05:20 <Warrigal> \m/ doesn't do anything, but \m/ \m/ does this.
07:05:24 <myndzi> with a space between them
07:05:36 <myndzi> also his foot often extends one character to the left
07:05:50 <Warrigal> Does it ever extend one character to the right?
07:05:50 <augur> Gracenotes: i think your 2ch images suck and wont admit it
07:05:56 <myndzi> so you can't do it if your nick is the same length as mine and there's nothing in front, etc.
07:06:01 <myndzi> Warrigal: yes, same frequency
07:06:20 * immibis is trying to figure out what \m/ is supposed to show
07:06:20 <myndzi> i actually never knew i could do \o/\m/ \m/ lol
07:06:35 <myndzi> without a space between the little guy and the big guy
07:06:40 <Warrigal> I think an \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ is in order.
07:07:00 <myndzi> also it's length-limited to prevent excess fglood
07:07:13 <myndzi> immibis: it's the horns man!
07:07:15 <Warrigal> immibis: it's a fist surrounded by a pinky and thumb, isn't it?
07:07:18 <immibis> \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/
07:07:23 <immibis> \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/
07:07:25 * immibis \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/ \o/\m/ \m/
07:07:31 <myndzi> universal sign of METAL!
07:07:36 <myndzi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_horns
07:08:11 <immibis> yes i really need to find a client with utf-8
07:08:34 <myndzi> the rocker is sorta inspired by this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkw4jhDE1eQ
07:08:37 <myndzi> the stomping boots, mostly
07:08:58 -!- olsner has joined.
07:09:23 <myndzi> er, to backtrack a bit, < augur> howsit work myndzi
07:09:40 <myndzi> it just calculates the length difference between the person's nick and mine and spaces things accordingly
07:09:52 <myndzi> doesn't work with all clients/themes but there's little i can do about that
07:10:01 <myndzi> augur: your nick is 1 letter shorter than mine
07:10:01 <augur> i mean the \o/ think
07:10:17 <myndzi> i take the number of characters before \o/
07:10:24 -!- immibis has changed nick to myndiz.
07:10:29 <myndzi> and insert that many spaces
07:10:36 -!- myndiz has changed nick to immibis.
07:10:44 <augur> right, but what about for the ones that fit \m/ \m/
07:11:01 <augur> it seems to fit the little guys around one another!
07:11:03 <myndzi> all i need to do is put it "under" those characters
07:11:16 <myndzi> if you look they are strictly delimited in columns
07:11:22 <myndzi> i don't bother with anything more complicated than that
07:11:32 <myndzi> the little guy is 3 chars wide
07:11:43 <myndzi> and only the boots of the big guy are ever more than 3 chars wide
07:11:48 <myndzi> and his boots are lower than the little guy
07:11:51 <myndzi> so there's no conflict
07:13:14 <myndzi> must be flood protection
07:13:21 <myndzi> there's more strict flood protection on the big guy
07:13:26 <myndzi> because he is more lines
07:13:40 <immibis> !sh echo; echo NICK EgoBot2
07:14:09 <myndzi> it's just two in a row quickly that it's blocking
07:14:32 <myndzi> the flood protection is calculated to be approximately in range of normal irc throttling
07:15:08 <puzzlet> myndzi: anyway hwere can i find rules for normal irc throttling
07:15:20 <myndzi> or i could just tell you
07:15:38 <myndzi> ;secs += 1 + int(len(PRIVMSG target :message) / 90)
07:15:38 <myndzi> ;secs += 2 + int(len(PRIVMSG target :message) / 120)
07:16:00 <myndzi> also bahamut adds like 2 seconds for messages with > 10 targets i think
07:16:03 <oerjan> ^ul ( )(\m)(/ )*:*( )*::***S
07:16:04 <fungot> \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/
07:16:21 <myndzi> i don't know why unreal changed the formula, i don't like it much
07:17:08 <myndzi> theirs allows like 10 lines of spam
07:17:17 <immibis> [18:16] <EgoBot> /tmp/input.16388: line 1: 16397 Exit 146 ps
07:17:17 <immibis> [18:16] <EgoBot> 16398 Killed | ( while true; do
07:17:17 <immibis> [18:16] <EgoBot> { read hi; echo -n $hi; };
07:17:26 <immibis> i sent that command LAST WEEK
07:17:45 <immibis> well might have been on the weekend
07:19:10 <puzzlet> myndzi: thanks, but can't find specification about throttling in rfc 1495
07:19:55 <coppro> There is no throttling in the spec
07:20:44 <coppro> I think the most it says is "servers may kill spammy clients, so they are encouraged to use some sort of throttling so this doesn't happen"
07:20:59 <myndzi> i'd read the doc multiple times and didn't realize it was there either
07:21:10 -!- kar8nga has joined.
07:21:11 <myndzi> 8.10 Flood control of clients
07:21:18 <myndzi> The current algorithm is as follows:
07:21:18 <myndzi> * check to see if client's `message timer' is less than
07:21:18 <myndzi> current time (set to be equal if it is);
07:21:18 <myndzi> * read any data present from the client;
07:21:19 <myndzi> * while the timer is less than ten seconds ahead of the current
07:21:21 <myndzi> time, parse any present messages and penalize the client by
07:21:24 <myndzi> 2 seconds for each message;
07:21:27 <myndzi> which in essence means that the client may send 1 message every 2
07:21:30 <myndzi> seconds without being adversely affected.
07:21:39 <myndzi> bahamut adds to this an extra penalty for longer messages
07:21:46 <myndzi> and, later, a penalty for many targets
07:23:46 <myndzi> lots of people use unreal, which is derivative of bahamut
07:23:59 <myndzi> i don't know how many people use bahamut, but it's pretty decent on its own
07:24:02 <myndzi> i sure as hell don't like unreal
07:24:23 <CESSMASTER> i thought unreal was a derivative of uh
07:24:46 <myndzi> i think dreamforge is bahamut
07:25:06 <CESSMASTER> used to go on a network that used anope and unreal
07:25:06 <myndzi> Bahamut is an Internet Relay Chat Daemon (IRCd) designed for DALnet, one of the major IRC networks in the world. You may be familiar with DreamForge, the previous DALnet IRCd.
07:26:00 <myndzi> The Bahamut IRCD is based on the EFNet Hybrid IRCD and has many additional features primarily designed for the DALnet IRC network. Its features include very high performance, compatibility with Solaris, BSD and Linux and a high level of stability under very high load, as well as many improvements over the original EFNet code. Bahamut is not compatible with Dreamforge as of version 1.2.0.
07:31:17 <bsmntbombdood> what project doesn't say that they are high performance
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07:37:00 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q="damn+big+linux"
07:37:11 <immibis> how is that supposed to be helpful exactly?
07:37:31 <immibis> !cat http://google.com/search?q="damn+big+linux"
07:43:15 <augur> so i really wanna experiment with a language that works by overt composition of abstract syntax rather than composed concrete syntax
07:43:24 <augur> anyone have any comments or something?
07:43:38 <augur> like, what might be interesting to explore?
07:44:05 <oerjan> !cat http://google.com/search?q="damn+big+linux"
07:44:25 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
07:44:36 <oerjan> well if it had existed, it would be clever
07:44:54 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck rot13 sadbf slashes swedish valspeak warez yodawg
07:45:27 <oerjan> !echo http://google.com/search?q="damn+big+linux"
07:45:55 <oerjan> that _should_ have worked :(
07:47:06 <oerjan> !echo http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/
07:47:43 <oerjan> ok so it's not EgoBot's fault the google url doesn't show up
07:48:19 <oerjan> immibis: the rest is sent as DCC CHAT
07:48:51 <immibis> !echo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgoBot
07:49:38 <oerjan> maybe it doesn't work on sites that expect an advanced browser client
07:50:37 <oerjan> google, and wikipedia, in EgoBot
07:50:47 <EgoBot> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
07:51:07 <immibis> wth it gave me this in dcc chat:
07:51:08 <immibis> [18:50] <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: /tmp/compiled.2685: No such file or directory
07:51:24 <augur> as opposed to just echoing the url
07:51:36 <immibis> !c int i; while(i++) new char[i];
07:51:51 <immibis> !cxx int i; while(i++) new char[i];
07:52:07 <immibis> !sh cat /proc/MemInfo | grep MemFree
07:52:07 <EgoBot> /bin/cat: /proc/MemInfo: No such file or directory
07:52:11 <immibis> !sh cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemFree
07:52:34 <immibis> !sh cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemFree
07:53:13 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/root/dev/urandom
07:53:30 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/ihope/dodadodidi/arson.txt
07:53:31 <EgoBot> David slowed his pace slightly as his ears,
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07:56:36 <EgoBot> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
07:56:51 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/ihope/dodadodidi/breakin.txt
07:56:52 <EgoBot> It was a simple operation: David would open the door quietly, sneak
07:57:19 <immibis> why is your nick warrigal?
07:57:35 <Warrigal> The better question, in my opinion, is why that symbolic link is called ihope.
07:58:10 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/Warrigal/dodadodidi/arson.txt
07:58:44 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/Warrigal/dodadodidi/arson.txt
07:58:45 <EgoBot> David slowed his pace slightly as his ears,
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07:59:44 -!- Warrigal has set topic: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
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08:00:30 <immibis> how can i get a normish account?
08:02:35 <immibis> are you by any chance in charge of it since the links on the homepage seem to link to /ihope/...
08:03:22 <Warrigal> I don't see any links on the homepage that link to /ihope/....
08:04:01 <Warrigal> Anyway, you now have an account, username immibis, password immibis.
08:04:05 <Warrigal> I suggest that you change your password.
08:08:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:08:37 <immibis> Warrigal - script error: /usr/bin/nomic/rtbls/activate_me line 18. KeyError: 'immibis'
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08:10:10 <immibis> how can i see the contents of a proposal?
08:11:06 <Warrigal> immibis: that KeyError should be gone.
08:11:18 <Warrigal> LOOK proposer proposalname should do it.
08:12:15 <Warrigal> You know, having the ability to give away shell accounts is pretty cool.
08:12:53 * Warrigal counts the directories in /home and figures we have about 20 users.
08:13:33 * immibis looks in /etc/passwd and figures you have exactly 20 users
08:14:30 <immibis> but the actual passwords are in /etc/shadow
08:14:37 <immibis> and only accessible to root
08:14:46 <immibis> these days /etc/passwd only has user information
08:14:49 <Warrigal> How did you figure that from /etc/passwd, I mean.
08:14:56 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/root/dev
08:14:57 <EgoBot> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 Final//EN">
08:15:10 <immibis> well the actual users start at id 1001 and go to 1020
08:15:46 <immibis> although ls /home | wc -l gets 21
08:15:57 <immibis> someone's got a weird user id
08:16:00 <Warrigal> /home/pennmush is not an actual user's home directory.
08:16:17 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/ihope/fun.php?Link1=ls
08:16:59 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/ihope/fun.php?Link1=http://en.wikipedia.org/
08:17:01 <EgoBot> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
08:17:20 <Warrigal> !echo http://normish.org/ihope/fun.php?Link1=http://freefall.purrsia.com/
08:17:44 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
08:17:49 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
08:17:55 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck rot13 sadbf slashes swedish valspeak warez yodawg
08:18:04 <EgoBot> addinterp: !addinterp <name> <language> <code>. Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type !<name> <subcode>, and receive the program code as input.
08:18:16 <immibis> !addinterp ctcp bf +.,[.,]+.
08:18:17 <EgoBot> Interpreter ctcp installed.
08:18:28 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
08:18:45 <immibis> why do my ctcp command attempts always fail?
08:18:56 <immibis> !ctcp ACTION says hi to myndzi.
08:18:56 <Warrigal> That one succeeded, didn't it?
08:18:56 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION says hi to myndzi.
08:19:09 <oerjan> immibis: um when did it fail?
08:19:11 <immibis> it's ignoring the last character, at least here.
08:19:21 <Warrigal> 03:18 < immibis> !ctcp ACTION says hi
08:19:22 <immibis> myndzi's script isn't though
08:19:23 <immibis> [19:18] * EgoBot says hi to myndzi
08:19:29 <immibis> [19:18] * myndzi says hi to EgoBot.
08:20:27 <oerjan> anyway one issue may be that your final \1 is probably after the final newline
08:20:41 <EgoBot> Interpreter ctcp deleted.
08:20:44 <oerjan> so it is likely to be left out
08:20:56 <immibis> !addinterp ctcp bf +.,----------[++++++++++.,----------]+.
08:20:57 <EgoBot> Interpreter ctcp installed.
08:21:26 <immibis> does it still have daemons
08:22:42 * Warrigal notices that he's receiving DCC CHAT requests.
08:23:16 <EgoBot> daemon: !daemon <name> <language> <code>. Add a daemon to EgoBot. A daemon will run in the background, and accept a line of input every time !<name> <input> is run. Note that daemons are only allotted one line of output for each line of input.
08:23:40 <immibis> !addinterp stuff bf +.++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------
08:23:40 <EgoBot> Interpreter stuff installed.
08:24:21 <immibis> !addinterp stuff bf >+++++<++++++++++>[<.++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------->]
08:24:22 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for stuff!
08:24:26 <EgoBot> Interpreter stuff deleted.
08:24:28 <immibis> !addinterp stuff bf >+++++<++++++++++>[<.++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------->]
08:24:29 <EgoBot> Interpreter stuff installed.
08:25:05 <immibis> that just dcc-chat-spammed me with maybe fifty empty lines
08:25:09 <EgoBot> Interpreter stuff deleted.
08:25:27 <immibis> !daemon echo_channel bf ,[.,]
08:25:42 <EgoBot> daemons: !daemons. List running daemons.
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08:27:44 <immibis> !addinterp reverse bf ,[>,]<[.[-]<]
08:27:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter reverse installed.
08:28:01 <EgoBot> Interpreter reverse deleted.
08:28:17 <immibis> !addinterp reverse bf ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]<[.[-]<]
08:28:18 <EgoBot> Interpreter reverse installed.
08:33:40 <EgoBot> 72 ++++++++++[>+++++++++>+++++++++++>+>+<<<<-]>++++.>++++.<+++++++.>++++.>. [248]
08:35:42 <fizzie> From "!bf_txtgen ^rev" the first thought that came to my mind was MS-Office's Clippy saying "You appear to be writing a botloop. Would you like some help with that?"
08:35:50 <fizzie> Incidentally, fungot's ignoring EgoBot anyway.
08:35:50 <fungot> fizzie: oh these are the 133 people survived out of anyone else? o.o hes good if he were going to be a tomboy and she never will. if you would get and i
08:36:20 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
08:36:45 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube*
08:36:49 <fizzie> I think it was oklopol who wanted a coin-flipper.
08:36:58 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
08:37:08 <fungot> immibis: all monsters are created evil, thieves' guilds, syndicates and similar organisations. this feline predator ( _panthera onca_) is the power of wading through the depths of the dead, air and wind, odin rides through the air. according to zarathustra, is described in snorri's _edda_ as being " pleasing and handsome in appearance, they fly from us. we've got brains. we are fools" ( aesop's fables)
08:37:22 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
08:37:27 <fungot> immibis: ein volk ein fnord ein führer...)
08:37:40 <immibis> fungot, i have no idea what you just said
08:37:41 <fungot> immibis: hm. i think.)
08:37:53 <immibis> fungot, you don't think, therefore you aren't.
08:37:54 <fungot> immibis: i saw a ghost in the shell
08:38:13 <immibis> why does apt-get --help say "This APT has Super Cow Powers"?
08:38:34 <fizzie> It means you can do "apt-get moo".
08:38:59 <immibis> fungot, have you mooed today?
08:39:06 <immibis> fungot, have you mooed today?
08:39:38 <fizzie> Oh, the chat-function also answers up to 4 successive comments from any one person.
08:40:04 <fizzie> Anyway, with aptitude you can do:
08:40:05 <fizzie> htkallas@pc112:~$ aptitude moo
08:40:05 <fizzie> There are no Easter Eggs in this program.
08:40:05 <fizzie> htkallas@pc112:~$ aptitude -v moo
08:40:06 <fizzie> There really are no Easter Eggs in this program.
08:40:06 <fizzie> htkallas@pc112:~$ aptitude -v -v moo
08:40:08 <fizzie> Didn't I already tell you that there are no Easter Eggs in this program?
08:40:17 -!- immibis_ has joined.
08:40:32 <fizzie> Time to go find some lurch.
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08:42:52 <immibis> for some reason, in bash i can "exec 5<><(cat xyz)" then "echo hi >&5". "cat <&5" will then display "hi" without altering the file "xyz".
08:43:14 <augur> the cat is after the fish oh noes
08:47:06 <oerjan> http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/758.html
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09:00:24 <ais523> immibis_: that was sudden...
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14:48:39 <iEhird> opera freedom is web server in a browser. I guessed!
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15:55:06 <pikhq> Connection via satellite in a storm -- great, isn't it?
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16:02:06 <whtspc> Oerjan wrote an interpreter for ferNANDo, now I'm not familiar with Haskell
16:02:33 <whtspc> I can use the interpreter by writing :main
16:02:49 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears EXPLODED | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:03:47 <whtspc> can someone tell what's the command to load an external ferNANDo program in the IDE
16:05:02 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears EXPLODED. "Ouch," he sputtered. He quickly regained his running stride as the pirate alligator bear mutants waddled after him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
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16:20:57 <AnMaster> pikhq, I thought you had dialup?
16:21:08 <pikhq> AnMaster: Not any more.
16:21:20 <pikhq> Satellite Internet now.
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16:24:38 <GregorR-L> I shall now cause the universe to collapse.
16:24:51 <GregorR-L> All your badgers are belong on a boat, motherfucker!
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17:14:01 <GregorR-L> so i herd u liek all your badgers badgers badgers are belong on a boat, motherfucker!
17:18:14 <AnMaster> GregorR, is the "belong on a boat" bit a meme?
17:18:52 <AnMaster> I can see at least 3 other memes there
17:20:15 <AnMaster> I still don't see where the "boat" bit comes into it
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17:28:08 <oerjan> Warrigal: is the topic accurate?
17:28:44 <pikhq> I'm tired of these motherfucking Gregors on that motherfucking boat!
17:29:35 <GregorR-L> (/me couldn't find a way to sparta that up)
17:29:49 <oerjan> <whtspc> can someone tell what's the command to load an external ferNANDo program in the IDE
17:29:59 <oerjan> hm, i didn't put in an option for that
17:30:26 <GregorR-L> so i herd u liek all your motherfuckin' badgers badgers badgers are belong on a motherfuckin' boat, bitch!
17:32:46 <GregorR-L> It was a dark and stormy night, and the foul stench of clichés hung in the air.
17:37:52 <oerjan> also, WinHugs is horrible with setting the directory :(
17:38:13 <GregorR-L> "Danny, the little Grizzly cub, frolicked in the tall grass on this sunny Spring morning, his mother keeping a watchful eye as she chewed on a piece of a hiker they had encountered the day before."
17:39:33 * oerjan fixes that in his own setup
17:51:51 <GregorR-L> The small boat pitched violently upon the heaving bosom of the ocean, causing Johnson to reflect that, although he generally liked bosoms, he was getting really tired of the ocean's bosom, and wished that it would at least drop from a 44D to a 34B.
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18:04:45 * oerjan assumes those numbers are feet rather than inches, or perhaps meters
18:06:08 <GregorR-L> so i herd u liek all your motherfuckin' badgers badgers badgers are belong on a motherfuckin' boat, bitch! // help me sparta this up :P
18:08:53 <GregorR-L> so i herd u liek all your motherfuckin' badgers badgers badgers are belong on a motherfuckin' boat, 'cuz THIS! IS! CHOCOLATE! RAIN! ORLY?
18:09:47 <GregorR-L> so i herd ur never gonna give up all your motherfuckin' badgers badgers badgers are belong on a motherfuckin' boat, 'cuz THIS! IS! CHOCOLATE! RAIN! ORLY?
18:16:14 <oerjan> what the heck is karmeldansen
18:18:19 <GregorR-L> The word "'cuz" there doesn't belong to a meme, but I can't fix it.
18:18:36 <GregorR-L> !swedish so i herd ur never gonna give up all your motherfuckin' badgers badgers badgers are belong on a motherfuckin' boat, 'cuz THIS! IS! CHOCOLATE! RAIN! ORLY?
18:18:37 <EgoBot> su i herd ur nefer gunna geefe-a up ell yuoor muzeerffoockeen' bedgers bedgers bedgers ere-a belung oon a muzeerffoockeen' buet, 'cooz THIS! IS! CHOCOLETE! REIN! OoRLY? Bork Bork Bork!
18:24:24 <oerjan> a "swedish" translation that turns a into e rather than the other way around is just _so_ wrong
18:29:30 <GregorR-L> Whereas otherwise it is of course quite accurate :P
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19:15:03 <lament> i'm going to china next week!
19:15:21 <GregorR-L> myndzi: You really ought to make those figures more child-appropriate.
19:15:36 <lament> yeah that's a little disturbing
19:15:37 <nescience> contrary to popular belief, it's not a penis!
19:15:52 <nescience> it's uh... the end of his belt. hanging down.
19:16:04 <lament> nescience: know orion, the constellation?
19:16:50 <lament> it has an extremely penisy-looking thing, always referred to as "orion's sword"
19:17:14 <oerjan> wait, you were not referring to the belt?
19:17:27 <tetha> shortsword, made for stabbing
19:17:37 <Slereah> http://www.randi.org/site/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/James_Randi_Doll_4925f227c76a1.jpg
19:17:43 <GregorR-L> tetha: It's not the size that matters.
19:17:46 <nescience> any female consatellations in the area with a handy "sheath"? :)
19:17:59 <oerjan> yeah, orion was a mighty hunter *wink* *wink*
19:18:06 <tetha> GregorR-L: in the case of a sword, it does, because longswords are made for slashing and shortswords are made for stabbing :)
19:18:37 <nescience> and halberds are made for EVERYTHING!
19:19:09 <nescience> poke it stab it hook it slash it .... i can't be assed to come up with a bunch more
19:19:23 <tetha> that sounds almost like a line from vaikarauta
19:20:12 <oerjan> there is no such thing as vaikarauta
19:20:14 <tetha> (song by korpiklaani, its about a mighty sword and quite a large part is about stabbing, slashing and murdering things)
19:21:12 <tetha> whoops, it indeed is V\"aikirauta :)
19:22:25 <oerjan> you'd think google would have suggested a correction, but no
19:23:13 <oerjan> i suppose since that still has only 8 hits...
19:23:17 <tetha> hm, it did not for you? that is scary, so google inferred by my youtube-usage that I might mean that thing which occurs in the title of a video I watched some time ago
19:23:42 <nescience> i have korpiklaani somewhere on my mp3 player but i don't think it's got that song.. unsure
19:24:16 <nescience> google has some great stuff, but just the other day i tried to find kayin's heboris video by searching "kayin heboris"
19:24:20 <oerjan> alternatively, google inferred from _my_ usage that i couldn't possibly be interested in black metal or whatever it is
19:24:48 <tetha> I think they call it 'humpa metal', as in 'old people music with electric guitars'
19:24:50 <nescience> google inferred from _my_ usage that i didn't mean captain picard oshi~
19:25:57 <oerjan> those are sperm cells, actually
19:26:07 <Gracenotes> tilde wants to be hardcore but nescience won't let him~
19:27:16 <tetha> oerjan: now combine that with ~ being your home directory
19:28:02 <Gracenotes> ~/.wine/drive_c/Program \Files/virus.exe
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20:18:42 <ehird> GregorR: let me create a f'in algorhythm anonymously
20:20:53 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:21:04 <ehird> 10:16:14 <oerjan> what the heck is karmeldansen
20:21:08 <ehird> ye olde 4chan meme.
20:21:09 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX6e7sO1ss0
20:22:19 <ehird> 00:37:27 <fungot> immibis: ein volk ein fnord ein führer...)
20:22:20 <fungot> ehird: but -1 is a whole site. i have to
20:22:43 -!- ehird has set topic: Ein Volk, Ein Fnord, Ein Führer | Ein Brainfuck, Ein INTERCAL, Ein Unlambda | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
20:23:20 <ehird> AnMaster: not a unique paradigm.
20:23:39 <AnMaster> ehird, are the other one really unique. There are lots of variations of all of them I think?
20:23:42 <ehird> Brainfuck/INTERCAL/Unlambda; Befunge slots into the Brainfuck slot (i.e. imperative)
20:23:46 <ehird> AnMaster: They're the canonical ones.
20:24:08 * oerjan looks up what fnord was originally
20:24:13 <AnMaster> ehird, what is canonical could be debated.
20:24:44 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyone denying that Brainfuck, INTERCAL and Unlambda are the most prominent and canonical imperative, parody and functional esolangs is on crack
20:24:45 <oerjan> hitler really knew his memes
20:25:21 <AnMaster> ehird, in those specific categories it is true
20:25:35 <ehird> AnMaster: And those are the most common categories of esolang.
20:25:38 <AnMaster> but you could argue if those categories are the right ones
20:25:47 <ehird> AnMaster: How many 2D langs are there?
20:25:53 <ehird> Barely any compared to those 3 categories.
20:25:59 <ehird> You're just being contrary for the sake of it.
20:26:01 <AnMaster> ehird, imperative, functional, automatons, rewriting, parody, other
20:26:05 <AnMaster> are the ones I can think of atm
20:26:18 <ehird> There are not many rewriting languages, and they are usually functional-esque.
20:26:32 <ehird> There are not many automatons, and they're usually functional-esque, too, but they're still rare.
20:26:44 <ehird> "other" is a silly category. Of course not everything can be categorized.
20:26:49 <oerjan> INTERCAL is also imperative.
20:27:02 <ehird> oerjan: yes, but there's two common subtypes of imperative esolang
20:27:12 <AnMaster> HQX+ and similar goes into parody however
20:27:12 <ehird> INTERCAL is more about the parody, Brainfuck is more about the tarpit
20:27:29 <oerjan> indeed brainfuck is the tarpit there
20:27:48 <ehird> AnMaster: No it's not.
20:27:53 <oerjan> neither INTERCAL nor unlambda are quite minimalistic, INTERCAL less so
20:27:55 <ehird> Before you say anything, no, it's not.
20:27:58 <AnMaster> ehird, you can drop several of the commands
20:28:06 <ehird> That does not make it unminimalistic.
20:28:07 <AnMaster> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_instruction_minimalization
20:28:14 <ehird> That does not make it unminimalistic.
20:29:37 <AnMaster> and I'm talking about minimal here.
20:29:52 <AnMaster> I have no idea why ehird is talking about minimalistic instead
20:29:53 <ehird> AnMaster: No. We said tarpits.
20:29:58 <ehird> You attempted to say Brainfuck was not a tarpit.
20:30:00 <ehird> This is simply wrong.
20:30:08 <ehird> 20:27 oerjan: indeed brainfuck is the tarpit there
20:30:08 <ehird> 20:27 AnMaster: what?
20:30:09 <AnMaster> I said it was a bloated tarpit
20:30:10 <ehird> 20:27 AnMaster: brainfuck is bloated
20:30:19 <ehird> AnMaster: What you said was clearly a challenge of its tarpitness.
20:30:24 <ehird> Otherwise, it would not be "what?".
20:30:27 <Slereah> The article of Schnfinkel on combinators is from 1924
20:30:37 <Slereah> Could you post a link to it on der wiki?
20:30:37 <ehird> All "what?" can mean is expressing confusion at its classification as a tarpit.
20:30:42 <Slereah> It's like copyright free and shit
20:30:56 <oerjan> Slereah: it's a wiki, do it yourself...
20:31:10 <Slereah> I'm asking about permission, not doing
20:31:31 <Slereah> You weren't okay with the Kolmogorov article
20:31:35 <AnMaster> ehird, I was saying "what" at the phrase "the tarpit", not "tarpit"
20:31:39 <oerjan> ours is a liberal wiki
20:31:44 <ehird> AnMaster: In the list of three, duh.
20:31:45 <oerjan> Slereah: um you said _link_
20:32:08 <AnMaster> ehird, I thought he meant as in "the ultimate"
20:32:11 <oerjan> an entire article might be different. but we already have ski/combinator calculus
20:32:27 <oerjan> Slereah: what was wrong about the kolmogorov article again?
20:32:28 <Slereah> Well, I'm not gonna dump a ten page article on the wiki
20:32:37 <Slereah> oerjan : It's still copyrighted, I think
20:33:01 <oerjan> Slereah: links aren't copyrighted even if they point to something that is
20:33:06 <Slereah> Schnfinkel isn't, though I'm not sure about the translation
20:33:26 <ehird> 20:33 oerjan: Slereah: links aren't copyrighted even if they point to something that is
20:33:26 <oerjan> that could be a problem
20:33:33 <ehird> oerjan: see the pirate bay case
20:33:45 <ehird> Graue could, theoretically, be put in prison for linking to copyrighted content.
20:33:58 <ehird> of course, nobody gives a flying fuck because FUCK THAT SHIT
20:34:06 <ehird> oerjan: the intent is to give access to copyrighted content
20:34:08 <ehird> that's pretty obvious
20:34:17 <Slereah> Also Kolmogorov is deaaaaad
20:34:26 <Slereah> Who's gonna sue, his ghost?
20:34:34 <GregorR-L> Slereah: Copyright ends neither with death nor deaaaaath.
20:34:38 <oerjan> ehird: anyway, i'm talking links to copyrighted things that are legally at their site
20:34:52 <Slereah> But who owns the copyright right now?
20:35:26 <oerjan> Slereah: the journal might own it, if not the heirs
20:35:39 <oerjan> it depends on deals made
20:35:58 <oerjan> oh. well it could be complicated.
20:36:38 <GregorR-L> Then The Comrades own the copyright :P
20:36:57 <Slereah> Reference is "Uspehi Mat. Nauk 13"
20:36:58 <ehird> anyway copyright is graue's problem.
20:37:53 <Slereah> But well, I think I'll type the combinator article
20:38:03 <Slereah> It's interesting and not copyrighted
20:38:28 <Slereah> And I'll link it on the combinator page
20:41:32 <pikhq> There's been people accused of breaking the law by linking to someone who linked to someone who linked to someone who linked to DeCSS.
20:42:02 <pikhq> (note: most of the Internet is breaking the law by that notion)
20:42:11 <Slereah> pikhq : What kind of society would we be if we allowed such things?
20:42:22 <pikhq> Slereah: A free one, presumably.
20:42:26 <GregorR-L> http://acme.com/software/thttpd/repo.html
20:44:08 <GregorR-L> (Related to the link-to-a-link-to-a-link concept)
20:44:29 -!- whtspc has joined.
20:45:06 <whtspc> oerjan: thanks, works perfect!
20:47:30 <ehird> or should i say ieae
20:47:59 <ehird> GregorR-L: i love that log
20:48:04 <ehird> it's one of my favourite pieces of internet
20:49:25 <ehird> GregorR-L: i dunno how jef managed to be like that for all the emails
20:49:36 <ehird> as little explanation as possible :D
20:54:06 <whtspc> hi AnMAster, the file import functionality in oerjan's ferNANDo interpreter
20:57:23 <AnMaster> hm. I just started to see the point of wireless devices... Less of a mess. Sadly in this case it were the power cables that were messed up. I guess you could make it wireless by using induction between some sort of sender in the table and a receiver in the device...
20:57:55 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Tesla.
20:57:57 <ehird> "hm. I just started to see the point of wireless devices... Less of a mess. "
20:58:00 <Tesla> Of course you could!
20:58:03 <ehird> huge fucking revelation!
20:58:04 -!- Tesla has changed nick to oerjan.
20:59:22 <AnMaster> ehird, there are downsides. Ever used gbit ethernet so it was fully loaded? I have. Then WLAN seems sluggish
20:59:40 <ehird> WLAN is stupid on a desktop machine.
20:59:52 <ehird> But wired keyboards and mice are gonna die pretty soon if there's any rationality.
21:00:13 <FireFly> [21:55:16] <AnMaster> ferNANDo?
21:00:13 <FireFly> [21:55:19] AnMaster checks wiki
21:00:13 <FireFly> [21:55:32] <AnMaster> ah that was the nand one
21:00:17 <ehird> (I'm looking at you, mr hardcore gamer. No, you cannot move that mouse fast enough and precise enough, and no, you cannot tap those keys fast enough, to overload wireless networks.)
21:00:21 <FireFly> I figured from the name, without having heard of it befare
21:00:25 <AnMaster> ehird, well as a matter of fact the power cable for the tower, the gbit ethernet cable and the power cable for the printer were the ones messed up with each other
21:01:13 <AnMaster> ehird, very true. But there is another downside in that case
21:01:39 <AnMaster> you can't shield them as easily. Remember I'm *paranoid* :P
21:01:48 <AnMaster> (yes there are various reasons why shielding only the cable wouldn't help
21:02:00 <ehird> AnMaster: btw what you're saying now is going unencrypted via your isp
21:02:09 <AnMaster> ehird, so it is. Freenode sucks
21:02:10 <oerjan> AnMaster: we know you're paranoid. we've been watching you.
21:02:22 <ehird> AnMaster: Freenode has SSL too you dipshit.
21:02:40 <AnMaster> because last I checked, a few months ago, they didn't
21:02:42 <ehird> AnMaster: ircs://JustFucking:GoogleIt/
21:03:05 <ehird> because i distinctly recall using ssl years ago
21:03:10 <ehird> GregorR-L: well that's fucking stupid
21:03:24 <pikhq> That's really fucking stupid.
21:04:09 <GregorR-L> Yes, that fact has a lot of sex with the physical incarnation of the concept of stupidity, we've established that.
21:04:15 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
21:04:16 <AnMaster> yes, because they use some servers with ips that other people use too. Like http vps on same ip. And then you can't get signed ssl cert for it they said iirc.
21:04:17 -!- fizzie has joined.
21:04:27 <AnMaster> and thus the remaining servers would be overloaded
21:04:34 <ehird> GregorR-L: Anyway, remove the openid requirement on algorhythms.
21:04:40 <ehird> It's irritating when you just want to fuck up a tune.
21:04:42 <GregorR-L> ehird: There is no OpenID requirement.
21:04:49 <pikhq> Then... Put those servers in a different pool?
21:04:55 <ehird> GregorR-L: O RLY? Then why did it yell at me for not giving one?
21:05:00 <ehird> AnMaster: http://codu.org/algorhythms/.
21:05:21 <GregorR-L> ehird: Because I'm an ass. You don't /need/ to log in, it's just recommended :P
21:05:22 <AnMaster> pikhq, lots of people would want it, so they would get overloaded, because *most* ones are such with shared ip
21:05:33 <ehird> GregorR-L: "Authentication error; not a valid OpenID."
21:05:41 <ehird> I'm pretty fucking sure I do need to...
21:05:48 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, did you rename that "masterpiece" thingy?
21:05:54 <ehird> Just two instances.
21:06:02 <GregorR-L> ehird: OK, something is very broken then :P
21:06:08 <ehird> AnMaster: One's for masterpeices, one is for autogeneration.
21:06:17 <ehird> GregorR-L: I wouldn't actually care if I had my domain and shit up :P
21:06:18 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: Masterpiece Machine had a different and unrelated purpose, and I wanted to --- yeah, what ehird said.
21:06:28 <ehird> GregorR-L: Have sex with a goat?
21:06:36 <ehird> Right. It's a desire we all have.
21:06:45 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, ok, can I try it with no login?
21:06:52 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: Wait, that seems broken :P
21:06:55 <ehird> READING COMPREHENSION, AnMaster!
21:07:52 <AnMaster> ehird, writing failure rather. I was intending to say "after you fixed it". As in "do I need some other login if I don't use openid?"
21:08:13 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes. GregorR-L must track your every move so he can rape you. That is the goal of his algorithmic musical generator.
21:08:19 <ehird> Be afraid. Be very afraid.
21:08:33 <ehird> **GregorR-L creeps up on AnMaster**
21:09:02 <GregorR-L> You see, when you generate music, I know you're at home.
21:09:10 <GregorR-L> So I can track when your schedule.
21:10:17 <AnMaster> GregorR, what sort of music will it generate? I mean, I would want it to generate for two violins and one cello
21:10:25 <ehird> AnMaster: You don't get to pick.
21:10:28 <ehird> That's the whole point.
21:10:30 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: Screw your anti-viola ways anyway.
21:10:38 <ehird> (PS I hope you get noise and metal.)
21:10:46 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, well I could add a viola too
21:10:47 <GregorR-L> If you want specific instruments, use a proper MIDI editor :P
21:10:58 <AnMaster> Fatal error: Cannot pass parameter 2 by reference in /var/www/algorhythms/lib/masterpieceAC.php on line 77
21:11:04 <oerjan> concerto in A minor for toothbrush and harmonica
21:11:22 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, I guess you have the details automatically logged on the server
21:11:23 <GregorR-L> Oh, yeah, that was broken by the OpenID problems >_>
21:12:14 <AnMaster> oerjan, I was trying to go for Allegro in C# minor (for small string ensemble)
21:12:33 <ehird> (Meanwhile, people care.)
21:12:55 <AnMaster> GregorR, seems it was generated actually.
21:13:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, there is a dupe now there
21:13:32 <AnMaster> Fatal error: Cannot pass parameter 2 by reference in /var/www/algorhythms/lib/masterpiece.php on line 87
21:14:15 <oerjan> are we approaching a fixpoint?
21:14:16 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, http://codu.org/algorhythms/?mpid=Docilely+Bawdy+Sonata&track=1&s&autocompose
21:14:22 <GregorR-L> Stupid me not paying attention to the no-OpenID stuff :P
21:15:37 <AnMaster> GregorR, also why is http://codu.org/algorhythms/?mpid=Preposterously+Nauseating+Fugue listed under "incomplete" in http://codu.org/algorhythms/?list
21:16:08 <AnMaster> GregorR, or is that yet another bug?
21:16:40 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's not yet nauseating enough
21:17:14 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: That's an old bug, but it's a bug in how it was inserted into the DB, so it's not going to change.
21:17:35 <ehird> GregorR-L: You can change it manually. :p
21:17:56 <ehird> GregorR-L: Just give me root!
21:18:17 <GregorR-L> Which is a great idea since the DB isn't even owned by root :P
21:18:29 <GregorR-L> Well, I could give you less privileges ... but ahh heck!
21:18:33 <ehird> GregorR-L: That's quite irrelevant, isn't it :P
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21:19:50 <ehird> AnMaster hurt himself! :)
21:19:53 <AnMaster> pan flute + various special effects
21:20:20 <ehird> Awesome, that's what.
21:20:52 <ehird> that sounds awesome
21:21:06 <AnMaster> ehird, the one mentioned above
21:21:16 <AnMaster> http://codu.org/algorhythms/?mpid=Docilely+Bawdy+Sonata
21:21:25 <ehird> AnMaster: wow that's great
21:22:08 <ehird> GregorR-L: the new algo seems to make things go quiet all of a sudden very often
21:22:12 <ehird> it's quite annoying
21:22:49 <ehird> what is it it must be amazing if you hate it
21:23:00 <GregorR-L> ehird: Yeah, I know, that's fixed in my local copy but a bunch of sh** is broken too, so I haven't committed that.
21:23:11 <AnMaster> FX 5 (brighness); Lead 6 (voice); Acoustic Grand Piano; Brass Section; Baritone Sax, Distortion Guitar
21:23:19 <ehird> AnMaster: that sounds awesome
21:23:20 <AnMaster> in some strange semi oriental style
21:24:01 <oerjan> "Acoustic Grand Piano" sounds ...wrong.
21:24:09 <ehird> AnMaster: haha wow
21:24:20 <ehird> ............................................
21:25:03 <AnMaster> oh a type of squirrel says wikipedia
21:25:20 <AnMaster> ehird, I fail to see what squirrels have to do with it
21:25:33 <ehird> Yes, well, you wouldn't.
21:25:38 <oerjan> we're chip and dale, na na na na na na na
21:25:54 <ehird> Nope. Go absorb some western culture :P
21:26:08 <AnMaster> ehird, what part. Western culture is pretty large
21:26:19 <ehird> http://codu.org/algorhythms/getmidi.php?mpid=Only+fucked+up+anti-guardian+mindwarps+need+apply____+and+who+are+you+and+your
21:26:41 <oerjan> AnMaster: disney christmas special, unless they've changed it
21:26:52 <GregorR-L> The American part. That's the only part that matters.
21:27:04 <ehird> Every cartoon with chipmunks, ever.
21:27:11 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh you mean when they talk so fast and are told to show it in pictures instead?
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21:27:17 <oerjan> GregorR-L: disney christmas special is _the_ most popular tv program in sweden
21:27:26 <oerjan> AnMaster: well, the _way_ they talk, in general
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21:27:51 <AnMaster> oerjan, is it popular in Norway too?
21:27:58 <AnMaster> Also I stopped watching it several years ago
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21:28:14 * AnMaster goes listen to something he bets ehird would never guess
21:28:20 <ehird> AnMaster: Autechre.
21:28:38 <AnMaster> ehird, what is "Autechre" though?
21:28:55 <ehird> AnMaster: Uh, remember that video with the warping 3d thing and the noise?
21:29:02 <ehird> That was an Autechre track.
21:29:07 <ehird> (well, they're not all like that...)
21:29:29 <ehird> hey, Ae do melodic too :P
21:29:38 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWGUnrIiOoI
21:29:45 <AnMaster> ehird, not that one you linked before
21:30:02 <AnMaster> it was not melodic by *any* definition of melodic
21:32:53 <GregorR-L> I think I'm going to rewrite the autocomposer entirely.
21:33:04 <GregorR-L> Take lessons from what I've done and start again.
21:33:21 <ehird> GregorR-L: Make it use neural networks! And markov chains.
21:33:27 <ehird> Those are two very important things in any AI.
21:34:05 <pikhq> ehird: Go talk to a Markov chain for a bit.
21:34:06 <oerjan> Awesome Instrumentation
21:34:19 <ehird> pikhq: I've done that. :)
21:35:09 <oerjan> hm apparently it's not _the_ most popular tv program any longer, slipped to third
21:35:28 <ehird> the most popular is Pop Idol.
21:35:43 <AnMaster> GregorR, I want it to generate something Mozart would have been, if not proud, at least not embarrassed by!
21:36:01 <fizzie> fungot: How do you feel about Markov processes?
21:36:02 <fungot> fizzie: what about read-block? i don't know what happens. isn't _that_ what's important? is performance fundamental? are you rich? do you prefer books or tv?
21:36:10 <oerjan> no, Eurovision Song Contest actually
21:36:29 <ehird> ais523 watches eurovision for laughs, i can't bring myself to :)
21:36:46 <fizzie> I watch it because they say "poäng" when counting the points.
21:36:46 <oerjan> or the swedish prequel
21:36:51 <ehird> 21:35 AnMaster: GregorR, I want it to generate something Mozart would have been, if not proud, at least not embarrassed by! ← that's old hat; in like the 80s someone demonstrated their program and a Chopin piece and people misidentified the real one
21:37:02 -!- whtspc has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:37:04 <ehird> said the real chopin was too cheesy etc
21:37:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm? what is wrong/funny with "poäng"?
21:37:15 <ehird> what we need computers to generate now is weird shit :)
21:37:27 <fizzie> AnMaster: Nothing's wrong, and I doubt it's globally funny. It's just a thing.
21:37:37 <pikhq> fizzie: ... Did you do a *Markov chain* in Befunge?
21:37:44 <AnMaster> ehird, Chopin would be trivial I think...
21:37:45 <ehird> pikhq: You're behind, aren't you.
21:37:58 <GregorR-L> <AnMaster> ehird, Chopin would be trivial I think...
21:37:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Maybe not Chopin. But it was not trivial, and it did other composers too.
21:38:00 <AnMaster> he has a very... marked style?
21:38:03 <pikhq> ehird: Yes, yes I am.
21:38:04 <GregorR-L> Not much love for Chopin in this channel I guess :P
21:38:15 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Not familiar.
21:38:26 <fizzie> pikhq: Technically it's not actually a Markov chain, though. Well, I guess it is if you just formulate it right; the transition probabilities are just uniformly distributed.
21:38:30 <pikhq> (archive.org links are appreciated)
21:38:31 <AnMaster> GregorR, I mean, his style is very special. You can usually identify that something is Chopin after a few seconds
21:38:31 <ehird> I actually don't listen to much classical. *SHOCK* *HORROR*
21:38:31 <coppro> ehird: congratulations, you are now the master of the Poobah election
21:38:40 <oerjan> La France, deux points
21:38:40 <pikhq> fizzie: Still spiffy.
21:38:59 <AnMaster> GregorR, while figuring out of something is Mozart or Haydn is way harder (or any of about 5 other composers)
21:39:09 * oerjan has no idea whether they still use french
21:39:11 <ehird> coppro: gmail is sloooooow
21:40:20 <AnMaster> oerjan, would it really be "points" in French?
21:40:30 <AnMaster> wouldn't it be, um, poain or something iirc?
21:41:04 <coppro> I think that points is correct
21:41:26 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's spelled like in english, but pronounced completely differently
21:41:35 <fizzie> It's the "poäng" thing.
21:41:44 <AnMaster> fizzie, that is the Swedish spelling
21:41:50 <AnMaster> which doesn't sound like the French one
21:42:04 <fizzie> The Finnish slightly exaggerated spelling.
21:42:13 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's borrowed from the french though
21:42:21 <fizzie> Or maybe more than "slightly", anyway.
21:42:27 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes. But the "ng" sound is different
21:42:44 <AnMaster> assuming Swedish pronunciation for "poäng"
21:42:54 <AnMaster> the g-sound is not there in the French one iirc.
21:42:55 * pikhq would like to take this opportunity to declare that Paul Erdős was awesome.
21:43:38 <pikhq> AnMaster: No reason.
21:43:54 <pikhq> Well, except for the obvious bit about the declaration being true.
21:43:59 <oerjan> AnMaster: it represents the original nasal sound of the french vowel
21:44:07 * pikhq needs to write about Plof with Gregor
21:44:08 * fizzie has an Erdős number that's smaller than GregorR-L's. :/
21:44:26 <fizzie> "Smaller" in the sense of "worse". :p
21:44:34 <fizzie> (Sorry, I'm not entirely sober.)
21:44:39 <oerjan> or, oin, it's a diphthong i guess
21:44:41 <AnMaster> oerjan, Swedish has the ng-sound
21:45:04 <oerjan> AnMaster: which is the closest approximation to something nasal i guess
21:45:14 <pikhq> Even glottal stops?
21:45:28 <AnMaster> but with a clear "g" at the end. While the French doesn't have that bit, and have a different sound near "oä". I'm not saying that they aren't related words
21:45:42 <GregorR-L> Hey wait, somebody took my awesome story off of /topic :(
21:45:44 * pikhq is of the opinion that Swedish should only be written using IPA.
21:45:49 <AnMaster> just saying that the spelling "poäng" for the the French one is not a very good approximation
21:46:01 <AnMaster> pikhq, Then I couldn't spell it.
21:46:02 <fizzie> Finnish has a glottal stop in compound words where the first word ends in the same wovel with which the second one starts. Or so sayeth Wikipedia.
21:46:19 <GregorR-L> ehird: You jerk, I liked my topic X-P
21:46:20 <oerjan> AnMaster: oh a clear g? norwegian has "poeng", but the g is not a plosive, just part of the ng nasal consonant
21:46:23 <pikhq> AnMaster: Then you should learn it.
21:46:52 <fizzie> I don't really know how the French "point" is pronounced, so I can't guess how close the Finnish rendering of "poäng" is.
21:46:57 <AnMaster> oerjan, well, not as clear as a free-standing one...
21:47:17 <AnMaster> oerjan, but much more than you find in the French one
21:47:27 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears EXPLODED. "Ouch," he sputtered. He quickly regained his running stride as the pirate alligator bear mutants waddled after him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
21:48:12 <GregorR-L> Somebody set the topic to "David slowed his pace slightly as his ears,"
21:48:17 <GregorR-L> So I added the rest of that story.
21:48:46 <GregorR-L> Jun 16 02:59:44 * Warrigal has changed the topic to: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D
21:48:48 <oerjan> AnMaster: french has no g there of course
21:49:43 <AnMaster> GregorR, um, that wasn't the most recent topic then
21:50:04 <GregorR-L> (Mine being an extension to that one)
21:50:10 <ehird> GregorR-L: you're just anti-hitler.
21:50:25 <GregorR-L> And pro-pirate-alligator-bear-mutants.
21:50:51 <oerjan> i'd have thought david was more anti-goliat
21:51:06 <GregorR-L> Goliath was a pirate alligator bear mutant.
21:51:10 <GregorR-L> That part doesn't get across usually.
21:51:47 <AnMaster> GregorR, you said you have an Erdos number?
21:52:19 <GregorR-L> Well, more accurately I will when the next OOPSLA publication becomes public.
21:52:39 <AnMaster> GregorR, so what will your Erdos number be?
21:54:08 <GregorR-L> Gregor Richards -> Jan Vitek -> Nir Shavit -> Michael E. Saks -> Erdos
21:54:12 <ehird> Fun fact: There is someone with an Erdos-Bacon number of 0.
21:54:21 <ehird> Paul Erdos... aka "Kevin Bacon".
21:54:43 <oerjan> the fun part is the definition of "fact" used
21:55:06 * pikhq likes the people with Erdős-Bacon numbers who earned both sides of it
21:55:07 <ehird> I should make a library of fats.
21:55:19 <GregorR-L> Fun fact: The moon is made of the lard of people who've had liposuction. That and green cheese.
21:55:21 <pikhq> Example: Natalie Portman.
21:55:22 <oerjan> i suppose erdos and bacon neither published nor acted together...
21:55:32 <ehird> oerjan: Dude, they're identical.
21:56:09 <ehird> Sheeple is such a stupid noun.
21:56:28 <GregorR-L> That's because you sheeple it like it's a noun, when it's a verb.
21:56:42 <fizzie> Wait, no, it goes up to 6: Myself -> Kurimo, Mikko -> Oja, Erkki -> Cooper, Leon N. -> Zeitouni, Ofer -> Diaconis, Persi W. -> Erdös, Paul. Though I'm not completely sure that's an optimal path.
21:56:56 <ehird> fizzie: The issue is that you're Finnish.
21:57:00 <GregorR-L> FireFly: http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html
21:57:08 <fizzie> The issue is I'm not a mathematician. :p
21:57:15 <fizzie> So I had to guess a bit before I got to mathscinet papers.
21:57:18 <ehird> oerjan: what's your nummer 'gain?
21:57:33 <ehird> oerjan: Collaborate with me. I was Paul Erdos' secret lover.
21:57:38 <pikhq> fizzie: Most all mathematicians have Erdős numbers of >8.
21:57:41 <ehird> I'm pretty sure that counts.
21:57:54 <ehird> most have low numbers :P
21:58:01 <ehird> think of it like incest.
21:58:06 <ehird> <=8 ← paul erdos' penis.
21:58:20 <pikhq> coppro: Erm. Inverted that comparison operator.
21:59:54 -!- coppro has changed nick to {}.
21:59:57 <AnMaster> <ehird> Oh. <-- http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sheeple says it is a noun?
22:00:06 -!- {} has changed nick to coppro.
22:00:26 <ehird> Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh
22:00:31 <ehird> *tornado envelops AnMaster*
22:00:39 <AnMaster> ehird, weren't GregorR trying to fool you?
22:00:47 <ehird> GregorR-L: Stab AnMaster please
22:01:03 <oerjan> ^ul (Wh)S((o)S:^):^(sh)S((!)S:^):^
22:01:04 <fungot> Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...too much output!
22:01:34 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: Wiktionary sheeples it as a noun, but that's just because Wiktionary is sheepling it wrong
22:01:37 <pikhq> !ul (Wh)S((o)S:^):^(sh)S((!)S:^):^
22:02:16 <oerjan> pikhq: EgoBot doesn't abbreviate it
22:02:34 <pikhq> !unlambda (Wh)S((o)S:^):^(sh)S((!)S:^):^
22:02:35 <EgoBot> ./interps/unlambda/unlambda.bin: file /tmp/input.23928: parse error
22:03:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, !slashes doesn't output as it go?
22:03:30 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:03:38 <oerjan> not during a substitution
22:04:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, it could still as it went along
22:04:16 <oerjan> AnMaster: it is somewhat complicated to know when it can do it
22:04:34 <oerjan> since a substitution can make an earlier one possible
22:06:28 <AnMaster> just line buffered output messing up here
22:07:43 <ehird> My internet is slow.
22:07:47 -!- inurinternet has joined.
22:07:48 <ehird> Someone fix the intertubes
22:09:38 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
22:10:08 <ehird> Moo can answer all good questions
22:10:12 <ehird> "What noise do cows make?"
22:10:23 <ehird> "Does a dog have buddha nature?"
22:11:00 <pikhq> Does buddha have dog nature?
22:11:30 <ehird> http://www.kryogenix.org/random/cave.svg ← svg helicopter
22:11:52 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=egobot
22:12:23 <GregorR-L> http://blogoscoped.com/egobrowser/egobot.php // THIS gets the #1 result?!
22:12:58 <ehird> GregorR-L: i've used that
22:13:27 <AnMaster> ehird, that au* you linked above was less bad that the one you linked first. But still not my cup of tea
22:13:46 <ehird> GregorR-L: you asked it questions and it searched google and agglomerated stuff to answer things
22:13:51 <ehird> it was amusingly silly
22:15:22 <oerjan> "agglomerated" is amusingly silly
22:15:48 <ehird> AnMaster: Here, have a completely unobjectional Autechre track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZPMo7OdJo
22:15:55 <ehird> If you don't like it, you're unbelievably picky ;P
22:16:22 <AnMaster> <ehird> http://www.kryogenix.org/random/cave.svg ← svg helicopter <-- wtf, a black box?
22:16:29 <pikhq> ehird: ... That doesn't work.
22:16:37 <ehird> pikhq: What doesn't? The youtube link?
22:16:49 <ehird> AnMaster: a key = any key btw, not "a"
22:17:07 <AnMaster> ehird, err what has that got to do with anything?
22:17:13 <ehird> AnMaster: JS helicopter.
22:17:15 <AnMaster> ehird, I tried both konq and inkscape though
22:17:25 <ehird> It's javascript that changes an svg.
22:17:31 <ehird> Do you really expect that to work in inkscape?
22:17:45 <AnMaster> ehird, but I expect most svgs to
22:17:55 <ehird> AnMaster: Only the ones that are static imagery.
22:18:00 <pikhq> I see the SVG rendered, but the Javascript doesn't work in Firefox.
22:18:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:18:38 <pikhq> Mozilla XULRunner 1.9.0.10 - 2009051912
22:18:51 <ehird> pikhq: What ist he error?
22:18:56 <ehird> "Doesn't work" is collosally unhelpful.
22:19:05 <pikhq> The Javascript does not execute.
22:19:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Focus in the window.
22:19:07 <AnMaster> it doesn't react to key presses
22:19:14 <ehird> pikhq: Your browser is broken.
22:19:16 <ehird> AnMaster: Use another key.
22:19:37 <pikhq> What version of Firefox are you using?
22:19:57 <ehird> pikhq: Tested in both Safari 4 beta (too lazy to upgrade to 4 proper) and Firefox 3.5 beta.
22:20:00 <coppro> destroying the world, one file format at a time
22:20:06 <ehird> Both work absolutely perfectly.
22:20:22 <pikhq> Note that Firefox 3.5 adds a lot of support for various features.
22:20:40 <pikhq> I guess that SGML scripting is one of those features.
22:20:54 <ehird> pikhq: You've been able to script SVG for aeons.
22:21:19 <pikhq> Yes, SVG embedded in HTML.
22:21:30 <ehird> pikhq: That's good, because there's no HTML in that file.
22:21:39 <pikhq> Thus why it's not working.
22:21:41 <ehird> pikhq: you're simply wrong
22:21:45 <ehird> pikhq: I've scripted svg in ff 3.0
22:22:07 <pikhq> Fine. So it just plan doesn't work in 3.0.10.
22:22:22 <pikhq> So it's using *something* that FF 3.5 added.
22:23:28 <pikhq> ... Or 3.0.10 just had a bug.
22:23:40 <ehird> Hurf durf upgrade.
22:23:56 <pikhq> s not ~amd64 in Gentoo.
22:24:10 <ehird> pikhq: "I use Gentoo because it has the latest of everything lololololololololol"
22:24:31 <pikhq> Only an idiot would.
22:24:35 <ehird> A lot of peopled o.
22:24:42 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:24:44 <pikhq> (and there's plenty of idiots)
22:25:48 <AnMaster> ehird, just because idiots use an OS doesn't mean that everyone using the OS is an iditot
22:25:57 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has joined.
22:26:13 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: Here, have a completely unobjectional Autechre track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZPMo7OdJo <- the video part is horrible. The music is better than the previous one. Still not something I will listen to again though.
22:26:26 <AnMaster> <ehird> If you don't like it, you're unbelievably picky ;P <-- yes I am
22:26:45 <ehird> you'd probably like it better if it was 10x longer and had no beat
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22:27:35 <AnMaster> ehird, I do like game music though. Which is somehow often in between classical and modern
22:27:43 <oerjan> (now we just need to attach some explosives to him for the grand finale)
22:28:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Modern game music is mostly divided between classical, techno, and, uh, Space Giraffe.
22:28:17 <oerjan> the myth that AnMaster is unbelievably picky
22:28:27 <ehird> AnMaster: That's a real game.
22:28:29 <AnMaster> ehird, I probably haven't played "Space Giraffe" games. What do you mean.
22:28:33 <ehird> A real, fucking crazy, psychedelic game.
22:28:36 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoT-_2wC4vY
22:28:44 <ehird> Skip forwards to like 8 minutes and watch your head combust.
22:29:29 <GregorR-L> Techno is classical-derivative. With emphasis on "derivative"
22:29:53 <ehird> AnMaster: Because folk & tribe music doesn't exist.
22:30:14 <AnMaster> classical is a derivative of folk/tribe
22:30:37 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Some techno makes that rather obvious.
22:30:49 <pikhq> (see techno renditions of classical pieces. :P)
22:30:56 <ehird> I wonder if you can make Xbox 360 shit work on windows.
22:31:01 <AnMaster> GregorR, how many "Hungarian dances" and similiar by classical composers have you seen?
22:31:01 <ehird> It does run windows, after all.
22:31:07 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: You're acting as if "folk and tribe music" is one genre.
22:31:34 <pikhq> ehird: The 360 doesn't do Windows; it merely has a vaguely similar API.
22:32:04 <ehird> pikhq: Well, uh. The original xbox ran Windows, and the xbox 360 runs 478 Xbox games.
22:32:15 <ehird> So I'm thinkin' that there's a good amount of Windows in there.
22:32:21 <pikhq> The 360 emulates the original Xbox.
22:32:39 <ehird> pikhq: But anyway, how many unique APIs does the xbox actually have?
22:32:50 <pikhq> And the Xbox didn't run Windows, it ran an OS which happened to be based on the NT kernel.
22:33:04 <ehird> Operating systemHighly Modified Windows 2000 and XP (through Xbox LIVE)
22:33:19 <AnMaster> <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoT-_2wC4vY <-- reminds me more of a demo...
22:33:25 <pikhq> It can hardly be called Windows without the Windows subsystem.
22:33:27 <ehird> AnMaster: It reminds me more of a trip. :p
22:33:40 <AnMaster> ehird, I never had one. So no idea
22:34:02 <ehird> Nor have I, but if they're not like that, I'm severely disappointed.
22:34:18 <pikhq> "Trip"? You want a trippy game?
22:34:29 <ehird> pikhq: Dude, did you actually click the link?
22:34:36 <ehird> Click it and skip to 8 minutes, then claim Katamari is more trippy.
22:34:51 <pikhq> ehird: No; I have a ridiculously low bandwidth cap.
22:34:54 <AnMaster> ehird, what music genre is this in general?
22:34:58 <ehird> Then accept it on faith :P
22:35:11 * pikhq listens to Katamari Fortissimo Damacy
22:35:47 <AnMaster> ehird, but why the random sounds like a cow?
22:35:54 <ehird> AnMaster: I think it has an assortment, but I just get synethesisea so I'm probably hearing the visuals :)
22:35:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Connection timed out).
22:36:28 <ehird> AnMaster: Also, that's things exploding, I think.
22:36:33 <ehird> I'm pretty sure you shoot things.
22:36:42 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, but that is another part
22:36:50 <AnMaster> there is the exploding bit too
22:37:04 <ehird> I think that's just stuff happening when you shoot things.
22:37:12 <AnMaster> ehird, after it says "pod get"
22:37:30 <AnMaster> ehird, sounds like a cow doesn't it?
22:37:56 <AnMaster> also what odd shape for the playing field
22:38:23 <AnMaster> I seriously can't figure out how the game works from that video
22:38:56 <ehird> AnMaster: "The sheep vocals for the song were done by Flossie, Jeff's pet sheep, who has since passed away."
22:39:03 <ehird> So I guess some of them are part of the song.
22:39:08 <ehird> And the loud ones part of the game.
22:39:19 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
22:40:53 <AnMaster> ehird, the music around 8 minutes is quite sane IMO
22:40:59 <AnMaster> compared to the previous music
22:41:04 <ehird> Yes, but everything else isn't, so it balances out.
22:41:14 <ehird> I'm sort of getting the idea.
22:41:17 <ehird> The star things are enemies.
22:41:24 <ehird> When the field disappears, you fly to another field.
22:41:31 <ehird> You are the thing that doesn't look like a giraffe at all.
22:42:39 <AnMaster> wait what "A winner is you\nBut our giraffe is in\nAnother Castle"?
22:42:54 <AnMaster> they asked whowever translated "all your base" for help?
22:42:54 <ehird> AnMaster: that's from mario
22:43:03 <ehird> AnMaster: well, the last two lines
22:43:04 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? I don't remember that bit
22:43:07 <ehird> AnMaster: the first one is from another meme
22:43:28 * ehird googles for exact quote, internet is slow.
22:43:40 <ehird> AnMaster: At the end of each world except the last, Mario or Luigi is greeted with the words "Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!" spoken by a Mushroom Retainer.[16]
22:43:54 <ehird> A WINNER IS YOU! is from Pro Wrestling, a NES game.
22:44:10 <AnMaster> ehird, translation fail for that though
22:44:32 <AnMaster> that sounds like translation fail
22:44:47 <pikhq> ehird: http://blogs.msdn.com/xboxteam/archive/2006/02/17/534421.aspx
22:44:49 <AnMaster> ehird, do you like this music?
22:44:56 <ehird> The space giraffe stuff?
22:45:07 <AnMaster> ehird, if so I might know another game with odd music
22:46:22 <ehird> pikhq: i just wanna play xbox 360 games without buying one :P
22:46:50 <pikhq> ehird: According to the Xbox dev team, the Xbox OS was written from the ground up, but happens to use parts of the Win32 API for convenience' sake.
22:47:00 <AnMaster> ah yes... it was the game with a music file named "cosmicMotion.xm" oh and another one called "condomCorruption.mod"... The music varies a lot. Some is classical, some is techno, some is just plain weird.
22:47:00 <ehird> pikhq: it probably still uses the execution model & kernel model.
22:47:11 <ehird> condom corruption!
22:47:15 <pikhq> Good luck, man. There's *source* compatibility between the 360 and Windows.
22:47:40 <AnMaster> ehird, that isn't the google search box
22:47:48 <AnMaster> ehird, that is the irc input field
22:47:52 <pikhq> (well, you could possibly get some 360 games working on Windows; some of those games are .Net)
22:47:58 <ehird> AnMaster: which blob wars?
22:48:02 <ehird> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=blobwars&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
22:48:04 <ehird> lotsa flahs ones there
22:48:37 <AnMaster> there are two games. will be a trilogy.
22:48:43 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blob_Wars
22:48:51 <ehird> guess ill download it.
22:49:01 <AnMaster> ehird, A PITA to compile iirc.
22:49:02 <ehird> GregorR-L: your wearable works standalone now? does it have a net connection?
22:49:07 <ehird> AnMaster: that's good, I'll use a binary.
22:49:12 <AnMaster> ehird, unless you aren't on 32-bit Linux
22:49:46 <ehird> the mac binary is from september 08
22:49:57 <ehird> the fucking AROS binary is newer
22:50:00 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, there is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blob_Wars:_Blob_And_Conquer
22:50:03 <ehird> AROS is a bloody open source amigaOS!
22:50:17 <pikhq> ehird: Might I recommend qemu?
22:50:27 <ehird> pikhq: might i recommend I'm-buying-a-new-computer.
22:50:33 <ehird> pikhq: also, no kqemu.
22:50:35 <AnMaster> ehird, just play the music with modplugplay
22:50:38 <pikhq> Qemu's non-system emulation sucks ass.
22:50:42 <ehird> AnMaster: but i wanna play the game :D
22:50:49 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Connection timed out).
22:51:02 <AnMaster> ehird, then I think it is quite ok. but the sequel is better
22:51:04 -!- jix has joined.
22:51:08 <pikhq> Uh. Dual boot your Mac? That's your best hope, sadly...
22:51:20 <ehird> pikhq: whatever, I'm only going to be using this for a month or two
22:52:06 <ehird> do you know what I hate?
22:52:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
22:52:13 <ehird> MAME (the arcade machine emulator)'s license
22:52:14 <ehird> MAME is free. Its source code is free. Selling either is not allowed.
22:52:18 <ehird> Derivative works are permitted under the MAME license. However, you are discouraged from providing specific functionality that goes against the philosophy of the MAME team. Specifically:
22:52:21 <ehird> Do not add games which are more recent than 3 years old, or which are still being sold new by the company that produced them. MAME is not intended to be a platform that competes with arcade games that are still being actively sold.
22:52:25 <ehird> Do not provide a means of generating a list of games that specifically identifies those games for which the user does not have image files. This only encourages users to seek out sources for illegal ROM, CD, and hard disk images in order to "complete" their collection.
22:52:29 <ehird> Do not remove the startup screen that contains information about why certain non-working games don't work. This only serves to generate a bunch of useless email traffic to the developers asking why the games don't work.
22:52:32 <pikhq> ehird: That is lame.
22:52:44 <ehird> "YOU CAN'T SELL MAME EVEN THOUGH THAT'S NOT ANTI-OPEN SOURCE. AND DON'T ADD RECENT GAMES OR LET PEOPLE GET ILLEGAL GAMES AND DON'T REMOVE THE STARTUP SCREE"
22:52:51 <AnMaster> pikhq, he could compile it on mac
22:53:03 <ehird> you said it was a bitch to compile
22:53:20 <AnMaster> ehird, yes it seems better in 1.11 though
22:53:39 <ehird> ugh, it does the same as enigma
22:53:44 * pikhq could've sworn that there were at least attempts to switch MAME to GPL.
22:53:45 <ehird> changes colour profile on my display
22:53:55 <ehird> so everything goes darker
22:54:03 <ehird> AnMaster: it's some sdl/os x thing
22:54:08 <ehird> dna maze dosen't do it though
22:55:12 <ehird> AnMaster: haha i like the screams.
22:55:38 <AnMaster> ehird, there is an option for it iirc
22:55:51 -!- M0ny has quit.
22:55:55 <ehird> who would want to disable it!
22:56:07 <AnMaster> ehird, the psyco music are in the final levels iirc
22:56:37 <ehird> how do you switch weapon?
22:56:44 <AnMaster> ehird, you pick up another one
22:57:06 <AnMaster> as in, only pistol works under water
22:57:14 <AnMaster> and in some cases you need grenades to complete the level
23:00:01 <AnMaster> ehird, the sequel is third person 3D
23:00:22 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blob_Wars:_Blob_And_Conquer
23:00:31 <AnMaster> http://www.parallelrealities.co.uk/projects/blobAndConquer.php
23:00:52 <AnMaster> ehird, would be a spoiler without playing the first though!
23:01:30 <GuestShadowSkunk> "It will therefore be necessary to leave our problem at the point reached above and to develop first a kind of function calculus [Funktionenkalkl]; we are using this term here in a sense more general than is otherwise customary."
23:01:47 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has changed nick to Slereah.
23:02:58 * ehird completes level one of the original blob wars.
23:03:00 <ehird> damn that was awesome.
23:03:31 <ehird> clearly, though, I Wanna Be The Guy is better.
23:03:43 <ehird> AnMaster: no os x binary of that
23:03:48 <ehird> guess i'll compile
23:03:55 <AnMaster> ehird, hm indeed. just a simple makefile
23:04:04 <ehird> "* - A dual analog stick joypad (eg - PS2 Dual Shock) is highly recommended"
23:04:10 <ehird> i should pick one of them up sometime
23:04:19 <ehird> i love the ps2 joypad
23:04:29 <pikhq> Pick up a PS3 controller.
23:04:37 <ehird> the gamecube controller is awful
23:04:45 <pikhq> Just plug it in and away you go.
23:05:26 <ehird> pikhq: nothing can beat http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Sonydualshockblack.JPG !
23:05:32 <AnMaster> ehird, the sequel has less psyco music
23:08:08 <pikhq> ehird: Yeah; the dualshock is a very good controller.
23:08:47 <ehird> pikhq: D-Pad is a bit non-tactile though.
23:09:23 <GregorR> The D-pad is there for show :P
23:10:07 <ehird> I dunno, I've used it.
23:11:02 <FireFly> I have a USB Dualshock wannabe for my comp :p
23:11:07 <pikhq> Yeah, the D-pad is its only problem.
23:11:11 <pikhq> FireFly: Get a real one.
23:11:19 <pikhq> The PS3 controllers *are* USB.
23:11:31 <FireFly> Perhaps, but I don't have any PS3
23:11:37 <ehird> PS2 DualShock > PS3 DualShock
23:11:41 <FireFly> And I'm not playing THAT much on my comp
23:11:47 <pikhq> Don't need a PS3 for it.
23:11:55 <pikhq> You can buy the PS3 controllers seperately.
23:12:03 <pikhq> Just plug them in.
23:12:08 <FireFly> [00:11:41] <FireFly> And I'm not playing THAT much on my comp
23:12:19 <FireFly> I mean, I mostly bought that one for mupen
23:12:22 <pikhq> Or if you have Bluetooth, just turn them on.
23:12:39 <ehird> AnMaster: After some hacking, it fails at linktime.
23:12:49 <ehird> "gettext" isn't defined, nor is "libintl_{bind,}textdomain".
23:12:52 <pikhq> ehird: Yeah, but only slightly. The PS3 dualshock is still very good.
23:12:56 <ehird> Guess I need to compile with gettext.
23:13:24 <GregorR> When are they going to make the tripleshock :P
23:13:42 <AnMaster> ehird, never had that issues on OS X
23:14:01 <pikhq> GregorR: Sometime after humans grow a third hand.
23:14:20 <ehird> AnMaster: ah, -lintl helped.
23:14:31 <GregorR> pikhq: Hey, it worked for the N64
23:14:36 <pikhq> Different way of initialising it on OSX.
23:14:41 <pikhq> GregorR: Oh, right.
23:14:41 <ehird> % ./blobAndConquer
23:14:42 <ehird> zsh: bus error ./blobAndConquer
23:14:53 <ehird> pikhq: no, just linking stuff
23:15:04 <ehird> should be OpenGL/foo
23:15:12 <ehird> and SDL/foo, doesn't work with sdl-config --cflags
23:15:16 <FireFly> I've never been much of a PS fan, but I'm glad they didn't go for the silver banana controller for Ps3
23:15:17 <ehird> so i needed to add /opt/local/include
23:15:24 <ehird> and it's -framework OpenGL
23:15:32 <GregorR> I want to see an edited pic with somebody holding an N64 controller with three hands.
23:15:35 <pikhq> FireFly: Ugh; that silver banana controller looked painful.
23:15:39 <GregorR> And they should be having a lot of fun too.
23:15:49 <GregorR> (With their third arm just sticking out of their chest)
23:15:53 <pikhq> The PS3's only saving grace then would've been that it handles PS2 controllers plugged in via an adapter.
23:16:46 <AnMaster> ehird, and yes it was made for linux mostly
23:17:01 <AnMaster> you might want to send a patch to the author :)
23:17:38 <GregorR> Who will respond "OS X? Screw OS X!"
23:17:48 <pikhq> ehird: Would it kill them to use Autoconf?
23:18:04 <pikhq> (or something that similarly abstracts that stuff away)
23:21:07 <GregorR> Ha. Talking to ehird about autoconf. I think I'll leave now lest the fallout kills me.
23:21:49 <pikhq> Oh, right. He prefers the insane solution.
23:21:54 <pikhq> (in this case, per-OS Makefiles)
23:22:56 <AnMaster> GregorR, I would, except it would be a bit tedious!
23:23:39 <Warrigal> Memo to oerjan, re "is the topic accurate?": no.
23:24:11 <AnMaster> Warrigal, what is the topic supposed to be?
23:24:29 <Warrigal> Well, I originally set the topic to contain "David slowed his pace slightly as his ears,"
23:24:40 <Warrigal> Which is the first line of http://normish.org/ihope/dodadodidi/arson.txt.
23:24:58 <Warrigal> The topic is inaccurate in that what follows in the topic is not what follows in the text file.
23:25:05 -!- comex has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:25:10 <AnMaster> Warrigal, and what is that file about
23:25:17 <Warrigal> The topic doesn't even have the comma after "ears".
23:25:30 <GregorR> Response time: 12 hours :P
23:26:03 <Warrigal> GregorR: now come up with a reasonable continuation that actually has a comma after "ears".
23:26:24 <Warrigal> AnMaster: yes. You know what arson is, don't you?
23:29:08 -!- GregorR has set topic: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, which had been tingling painfully, burst forth off of his head, leaving two bleeding gashes. "Ouch," he sputtered, pulling hair wet with blood off of his scalp. But there was no time to bandage the wound, as he quickly regained his running stride as the pirate alligator bear mutants waddled after him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
23:32:08 <GregorR> Or do I need to make it about arson, too?
23:34:53 <ehird> 23:21 pikhq: Oh, right. He prefers the insane solution.
23:34:53 <ehird> 23:21 pikhq: (in this case, per-OS Makefiles)
23:35:10 <lament> lytton context is gay.
23:35:21 <lament> lyttle lytton contest, on the other hand, is the shit.
23:35:33 <lament> http://adamcadre.ac/lyttle.html
23:35:54 <ehird> lament more like la shit
23:36:10 <pikhq> ehird: What do you prefer?
23:36:11 <ehird> lament: i like the lytton contest!
23:36:18 <ehird> pikhq: not using c :)
23:36:31 <pikhq> Ah, yes. The ignorant solution.
23:36:32 <ehird> but the current least horrible solution is per-OS makefiles. with the makefiles being as portable as possible.
23:36:40 <ehird> pikhq: no— c is just really shit and has a terrible environment around it
23:36:42 <lament> lyttle lytton is better
23:36:46 <pikhq> ... Per-OS makefiles.
23:36:48 <ehird> although why am I bothering; you're a c fanboy.
23:37:14 <lament> unlike the actual lytton contest, the lyttle lytton one is conducted by a guy who himself has a good sense of humour and is a professional writer
23:37:42 * pikhq wishes that ehird had ever had to deal with per-OS makefiles.
23:37:55 <ehird> GregorR: Can you scare pikhq by telling him cplof's makefiles are per-OS to a degree?
23:38:03 <ehird> I would enjoy that.
23:38:27 <GregorR> pikhq: cplof's Makefiles are per-OS to a degree.
23:38:27 <pikhq> I see configure.ac and Makefile.am.
23:38:38 <pikhq> GregorR: To what degree?
23:38:38 <GregorR> pikhq: More accurately, it has per-OS makefiles for OSes that don't support auto* :P
23:38:45 <ehird> when did it get autoconf?
23:38:49 <ehird> it didn't use to use auto*
23:38:55 <ehird> not when I worked on it
23:39:44 <GregorR> It had autoconf all along, you just used the GCC makefile :P
23:39:46 <pikhq> You realise that's what ./configure&&make&&make install generally means.
23:40:19 <pikhq> GregorR: Oh, those. For use where autoconf doesn't work.
23:41:29 <ehird> pikhq: anyway, I'm not interested in this argument because it is the nature of sysadmins to adore C, autohell, shell scripts and other absurdities
23:41:47 <pikhq> I don't adore Autoconf.
23:41:54 <GregorR> Warrigal: Another ending (people don't understand what 'comma not optional' means): David slowed his pace slightly as his ears began to slowly deform, but pressed on. He descended into the volcano, determined to save the man who created him.
23:42:13 <pikhq> I just think it's significantly better than per-OS makefiles or crazy Perl scripts or other such custom build systems.
23:42:26 <pikhq> (which of course it is)
23:43:21 * ehird poops over everyone who likes unix.
23:43:40 * pikhq watches ehird poop over himself
23:43:58 <pikhq> (you *do* like OS X, right?)
23:43:59 <ehird> pikhq: Unless you know something about my mind that I don't, nope.
23:44:10 <ehird> I tolerate OS X. I'm switching to Linux because it's a bit more tolerable.
23:44:58 <pikhq> I agree that UNIX, autotools, etc. aren't all that great. I just think you are *terrible* at suggesting improvements.
23:45:12 <ehird> So's your mom, and you don't argue with her.
23:45:17 <AnMaster> <Warrigal> AnMaster: yes. You know what arson is, don't you? <-- no
23:45:43 <ehird> AnMaster: Arson is when you put your arse on somebody.
23:45:53 <pikhq> (god, suggesting per-OS makefiles, what Autoconf replaced? *shudder*)
23:46:01 <GregorR> I'm gonna go back to my parent's basement to sulk.
23:46:07 <GregorR> (The above is goth poetry)
23:46:09 <AnMaster> Definitions of arson on the Web:
23:46:09 <AnMaster> malicious burning to destroy property; "the British term for arson is fire-raising"
23:46:09 <AnMaster> wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
23:46:14 <ehird> AnMaster: That's bullshit.
23:46:19 <ehird> It's when you put your buttocks on somebody.
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