00:00:06 I forget what your meta-tendencies idea was :P 00:00:52 GregorR: Tendencies are patterns of arrangement and facets of music elements. Meta-tendencies are patterns of arrangement and facets of tendencied tracks. 00:01:10 For example, if a vector has 2 components, then a shape with 2 lines below and 3 lines above is a tensor representing a matrix with 4 columns and 8 rows <-- so above and below are probably covariant vs. contravariant coordinates, i guess 00:01:13 So you could produce multi-track songs where the tracks explicitly try and fit together, instead of only individual tracks being polished. 00:01:14 Ahhhhhhhhh. That could meta out of control :P 00:01:23 (or the other way around) 00:03:19 ehird: This /was/ the tracks trying to fit together. 00:03:41 ehird: But only because I generated the tendencies separately, then caused them all to use (for the most part) the same tendencies track. 00:03:43 GregorR: I only heard one track 00:03:55 .......................... 00:03:59 Then your MIDI is fekky :P 00:04:01 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0E/tensor_diagram.png That's the diagram to represent the trace of a matrix 00:04:06 GregorR: wait, no 00:04:09 GregorR: the instruments just sound alike 00:04:12 Yes :P 00:04:16 Coincidence. 00:05:55 GregorR: is this in the magicizer thingy 00:05:58 masterpeicer 00:06:18 Tomorrow is anime convention 00:06:29 Not yet. 00:06:36 I am wearing the ball and two signs. 00:07:55 And I have to be careful not to bump the ball on the inside of the desk! 00:08:43 GregorR: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Variations+on+a+Dun-Roamin__+Twerp+Loser 00:08:50 zzo38: btw in haskell (with Control.Monad imported) that way of computing thue-morse is just liftM product $ replicateM n [-1,1] 00:08:51 40 minutes, 174bpm, Gb major, 16 tracks, 7/2. 00:08:52 My computer is out of ink but it managed to print it correctly anyways 00:08:53 1000 measures. 00:08:55 A true epic. 00:09:07 It even sounds epic. 00:09:23 ehird: .......... except it won't actually be 7/2 :P 00:09:28 SHUT UP. 00:09:41 GregorR: What it needs is a way to change instruments over time or something. 00:10:47 Why does wget not recognize the invalid filename and output to a valid one? 00:11:09 I can use -O but it should be made to work without requiring -O if it can normally work without -O 00:11:40 It tries to write to "getmidi.php?mp...." unless I give it a different one 00:11:46 GregorR: What's 8/16 treated as again? 00:11:47 Is it fixed in the new wget 00:11:52 8/16 00:12:08 Only if the numerator is not a power of 2 is it treated weirdly. 00:12:10 heh 00:12:27 GregorR: I am currently generating a six-hour ambient masterpiece. 00:12:33 Let's hope percussion doesn't enter the mix. 00:12:41 6.6 recurring hours, actually. 00:12:43 Well., 00:12:44 Thereabouts. 00:12:49 http://filebin.ca/tgruta/AgonizedlyChunkySonata.mid // this is a surprisingly accurate name :P 00:12:51 Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /var/www/masterpiecemachine/lib/autocomposer.php on line 59 00:13:01 GregorR: can you unlimit it for a bit :D 00:13:07 zzo38: i'm not sure it's really invalid, it's just long? 00:13:12 ehird: TBH I don't even know how >_> 00:13:13 You can also use MIDI-Transmutation to remove the percussion afterward, if it can load that MIDI file. For some reason I don't know, MIDI-Transmutation will not load all MIDI files. 00:13:17 GregorR: php.ini 00:13:19 everything but / and NUL is allowed, isn't it 00:13:33 ah wait 00:13:39 GregorR: set_time_limit(9999999999999) 00:13:43 at the start 00:13:44 except 00:13:47 less ridiculous value 00:13:50 say 30000 00:14:18 You can run the PHP file on the command-line instead 00:14:26 zzo38: I can't. 00:14:28 For him. 00:14:46 ehird: Try it 00:14:57 GregorR: Clicked, come back in 10 minutes. 00:14:58 :P 00:15:20 8130 codu 20 0 231m 37m 5096 R 98.2 3.7 1:51.24 apache2 00:15:27 GregorR: *whistle*. 00:15:39 Did I make a mistake in the MIDI reading codes 00:15:45 GregorR: Just pray to the nonexistent god that no noisy percussion will enter this beautiful ambient piece. 00:16:01 Although that'd be ironic, and irony is fun, so maybe it'd be okay. 00:16:12 GregorR: This is going to be the first multi-gigabyte midi file evar :P 00:16:18 I doubt that :P 00:16:25 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 00:16:33 Still goin' for the first track. 00:16:36 Shit better be good. 00:16:58 GregorR: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 120 seconds exceeded in /var/www/masterpiecemachine/lib/autocomposer.php on line 59 00:17:03 That was not a large enough limit. 00:17:24 GregorR: Just set it to something ginormous 00:17:31 GregorR: Try set_time_limit(0) 00:17:35 that'll remove all limits 00:18:08 ?everything ?equal channel 9 :delete 00:18:23 GregorR: Shall I try again? 00:18:32 WTF? 00:18:37 Bleh, I set it to 1200 :P 00:18:40 That's the max you get :P 00:19:05 GregorR: Why the fuck did you write this in PHP. 00:19:09 You should probably run it on a command-line if it takes a long time. 00:19:15 zzo38: Why 00:19:21 ehird: There are no good dynamic languages. 00:19:48 GregorR: Python would do this in like 10x faster than PHP and 10x less shit code; Python is terrible but come on, *PHP*? 00:20:03 Web-service is just not a good way for these kind of long time software, there can be many problems with doing it that way 00:20:11 zzo38: Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike........ 00:20:23 ehird: I've never gotten comfortable enough with Python to be able to use it for ... well, anything really. 00:20:38 There can be problem of internet connection, or the browser to stop. 00:20:39 GregorR: Gawd, just write it in C, I can't imagine it desperately needs the dynamism :P 00:20:49 zzo38: That's irrelevant, this should take 10 minutes max 00:21:01 And anyways command-line just seems better for this kind of things. 00:21:16 O, only 10 minutes? You can try and see if it work. 00:21:24 Tha's what I'm doing :P 00:21:28 If it doesn't work then you can try it on the command-line 00:21:37 No, GregorR can. Or just not bother, 00:21:39 . 00:21:41 Not my server. 00:22:26 GregorR: IT WORKED 00:22:28 TRACK 2! 00:22:32 * ehird downloads it for curiosity 00:22:33 lawl 00:22:37 How big? 00:22:40 Do you know how to write C codes to make interrupt for CTRL+BREAK in SDL programming (such as MegaZeux)? 00:22:52 GregorR: actually 2:46 00:22:52 (hours) 00:22:57 zzo38: Not a clue. 00:23:04 and it downloaded more or less instantly so /shrug 00:23:08 ehird: lawl, my 120 guess was sooo close :P 00:23:11 let's hope the rest of these are ambient enough 00:23:21 GregorR: 120 what 00:23:28 120 seconds 00:23:38 GregorR: of php execution time; im talking about the track 00:23:43 Oh X-P 00:23:52 I thought you were talking about execution time there, I'm el dum >_> 00:24:02 GregorR: Yeah, 2 hours suddenly passed in that brief interval. 00:24:02 I added support for changing volume. It's working well :) 00:24:03 Happens. 00:24:45 Do you guess how I will wear in anime convention 00:24:55 I hope they have Magic:the Gathering cards this year 00:24:59 zzo38: Something terrifying I'm sure. 00:25:00 zzo38: I'm... not bothered, to be utterly honest. 00:25:32 I was going to wear something else but I didn't have time. 00:25:41 So, I attached the ball and two signs to belt loop 00:25:48 You told us, zzo38. 00:25:51 I made the signs in PowerPoint 00:26:04 It's a pokeball 00:26:11 So, I am the pokemon philosopher now! 00:26:30 Wonderful. 00:26:40 PowerPoint wouldn't let me add all the guides 00:26:50 GregorR: on to the third track 00:26:53 some percussion got in but it's mild enough 00:27:41 Does PowerPoint has a limit the number of guides lines you can add onto the page? 00:27:54 GregorR: The idea is that you should put a very long lasting music player inside your tomb and put this on loop. 00:28:05 So you can have dreadful ambient music permeating your non-existent afterlife. 00:28:09 lawl 00:28:12 FOR EVER 00:28:16 Or at least until the player dies 00:28:18 And how long would the music player last, do you think it is? 00:28:49 I don't need a music like that on my tomb. I can play the music John Cage 4'33" at my funeral, I don't need someone living to do it for me. 00:29:17 zzo38: Don't you hate your lack of consciousness 00:29:25 Don't you want it to not suffer?!?!?! 00:29:35 Fail to punish it with the in-tomb ambient musicalizer 2000! 00:29:45 Do I have a lack of consciousness? I seem not to have a lack of consciousness 00:29:58 (until I am dead) 00:30:25 zzo38: Well, we're talking post-death here. 00:30:29 Did you know that I am building Forth codes into MegaZeux? 00:30:33 No. 00:30:35 I am not psychic. 00:31:26 GregorR: LAST TRACK COMPOSING! 00:31:37 I have seen some question written somewhere, what music do you want played at your funeral and who will play the music? I decided, I can play the music myself and it can be John Cage 4'33" music 00:31:37 This will be awful. 00:31:45 ehird: Yes. Yes it will be :P 00:32:02 GregorR: I should send it to Pitchfork media for review 00:32:23 Do you know MegaZeux at all? I can take suggestion or question/comment for my forked project of MegaZeux. 00:32:29 "The Bermudan textures of this post-ironic landscape encompasses a velvety glove of compassion and detachment from reality" 00:33:52 What's a "post-ironic landscape" anyways, is that some kind of music I have never even heard of before 00:34:03 s/some kind/some new kijnd/ 00:34:06 s/some kind/some new kind/ 00:34:09 zzo38: It's bullshit, but it's exactly the kind of thing Pitchfork would say :P 00:34:34 O, OK. 00:34:40 GregorR: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Ambient+Melodrama+For+Your+Tomb 00:34:52 Clicking it = lag as it mixes :P 00:35:14 Sweet. 00:35:27 Floopee doob a dooba wha scha waa 00:35:28 * GregorR reverts to the 30 second time limit :P 00:35:32 GregorR: What? 00:35:39 But then it won't be downloadable :P 00:35:39 Oh 00:35:41 You mean 00:35:43 the generatorizer 00:35:47 Yes. 00:35:49 * ehird sleeps while mixing 00:35:54 this may take a while 00:36:02 I have seen some question written somewhere, what music do you want played at your funeral and who will play the music? I decided, I can play the music myself and it can be John Cage 4'33" music <-- brilliant :D 00:36:19 i want jesus to be at my funeral and go 00:36:32 "He was my second coming and was totally kick-ass." and then play a rubbish metal song. 00:36:44 It would be delightfully meaningless, lame and rubbish. 00:37:07 ehird: you realize zzo38's suggestion could actually work, though? 00:37:17 oerjan: SHUTUP 00:38:19 GregorR: Uh, this mixing is taking a long time. 00:38:29 MEMBER OF ANTI-MASTER-BALLS 00:38:39 POCKET MONSTER PHILOSOPHICAL LEVEL 111 00:38:49 * ehird stares at zzo38. 00:38:55 * ehird blinks. 00:38:56 * oerjan wonders where oklopol is these days 00:39:00 ehird: It shouldn't, the mixing is all C .... 00:39:07 Is *(char*)0=0; a proper way to crash a C program so that it will break into the debugger 00:39:14 oerjan: too busy being 20 and having sex, I guess 00:39:26 let's hope so 00:39:41 GregorR: Is it working for you? 00:40:07 I know *(char*)0=0; works because I have tested it, but is there a better way 00:40:34 a manual breakpoint? (interrupt 3) 00:40:39 I have #ifdef DEBUG case 0x042: { /* CRASHMZX */ *(char*)0=0; break; } #endif 00:41:04 And is it cross-platform compatible 00:41:19 GregorR: what's the one you liked again? 00:41:33 Toccatta? 00:41:36 *Toccata 00:41:46 Onerously Uptight Toccata 00:42:04 GregorR: Fix dat mixin' 00:42:28 Gimme a sec, I'm fixing things less irrelevant than mixing multi-hour MIDIs. 00:44:47 What's a "post-ironic landscape" anyways <-- whatever we'll be living in when the age of irony finally ends, i assume 00:45:41 if it ever does. and if anyone survives it ending. 00:50:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:54:36 http://filebin.ca/haxfsj/FarcicallyBrawnyFugue.mid // haven't decided whether I like this one yet. 00:55:09 GregorR: it's good 00:55:18 i love my aesthetic senses, they can pick up anything 01:06:36 The "state of the art" is online now. 01:08:42 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 01:09:02 GregorR: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Roe+v_+Wade+As+An+Analogy+For+Temperature 01:09:06 It's...epic. 01:09:30 When will Melodrama mix? :-P 01:09:49 ehird what XD 01:09:53 global warming is killing unborn children? 01:10:05 psygnisfive: My titles are designed for absurdity. 01:10:11 <3 01:13:26 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:48:05 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 01:51:36 As it turns out, there's more to having a theme than just repeating stuff randomly :P 01:55:35 -!- inurinternet has quit. 01:55:47 yes gregor :P 01:58:08 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:58:20 -!- Corun_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:23:58 -!- Uddhavadasa has joined. 02:24:33 -!- Uddhavadasa has left (?). 02:37:40 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Amateurishly+Legal+Fugue 02:46:17 -!- amca has joined. 03:01:50 -NickServ- Nicks : GregorR-L \x1B[2J You`re GregorR potatoes GregorR-W pound_define behypercubed _ZN6Gregor1REd 03:01:51 -NickServ- Nicks : _D6Gregor1RFeZi ifndef_GREGOR_H TravelGreaseGod vsnprintf 03:01:56 Which nicks do I need to keep. 03:22:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:24:04 potatoes looks like prime real estate 03:24:34 don't you dare step in my potato field! 03:34:32 Bleh, they deleted 'em already :P 03:34:35 Somebody took potatoes. 03:35:12 the deletions were yesterday, weren't they? 03:35:45 -NickServ- Nicks : GregorR-L GregorR TravelGreaseGod vsnprintf 03:35:46 :( 03:43:53 gregorr: keep all of them 03:44:52 Too late 03:44:55 :( 04:39:27 -!- coppro has joined. 05:00:13 Nicks : ihope kerlo 05:00:20 My current nick is not registered. 05:00:59 um whois says you are, on account ihope no less 05:01:09 * oerjan wonders 05:01:15 -!- oerjan has changed nick to test123. 05:01:18 oerjan: he may be logged in but not registered 05:01:22 Notice that "warrie" was not in that list. 05:01:40 -!- test123 has changed nick to oerjan. 05:01:51 hm interesting 05:01:54 Also, "- warrie is not registered." 05:02:26 * pikhq still has his grouped nicks 05:02:26 Both of them. 05:02:28 oh right, "is identified to services" and "is signed on as account ..." are two different lines 05:02:33 warrie: you = ihope = kerlo? :o 05:02:37 I NEVER KNEW 05:02:41 Indeed. 05:02:49 From now on, I shall change nicks daily. 05:03:04 the piraha of brazil change their names every few months. 05:03:17 pikhq: me too 05:03:32 i made sure to use oerjan_ a moment yesterday 05:03:35 Pikhq and pikhq_. 05:03:52 I didn't have to make sure; I actually did log on as pikhq_ yesterday. :P 05:04:04 so whats this policy issue we're talking about now? 05:04:46 warrie: what would have been more amusing was if "ihope" had been deregistered, i don't see you using it much. i wonder what would have happened. 05:04:49 My next nicks will be the following: Saites, Ankulos, Klepto, Aeros, Laodikeia, Kenkhreai, Sarpedon. 05:05:06 I didn't make sure to log in as anything. 05:05:17 psygnisfive: just freenode's nick and channel purging from yesterday 05:05:30 oh. 05:05:31 if you haven't used a nick in a long time, it will be gone now 05:05:52 oh ok. 05:06:14 You know, I didn't know that the Greek letter gamma could correspond to an "n". Is it only an ng n, or can it be plain n as well? 05:06:22 Or am I acting as if I had been lied to? 05:07:13 psygnisfive: i don't know whether there was any policy change, other than that there is now a way to log in to your account even if you are not using your normal nicks 05:07:32 ok. 05:07:35 warrie: i've also read that double gamma is ng-n 05:07:35 * warrie Saites 05:07:42 ...wrong. 05:07:43 -!- warrie has changed nick to Saties. 05:07:47 ...wrong again. 05:07:48 -!- psygnisfive has changed nick to augur. 05:07:49 -!- Saties has changed nick to Saites. 05:07:51 i cannot recall anything more than that. 05:07:59 This shall me by Thursday nick. 05:08:09 oh maybe something about tt vs. ss due to dialect differences 05:08:12 how do i log out of a nick? 05:08:25 augur: huh? 05:08:30 well 05:08:37 augur: LOGOUT. 05:08:46 ive told nickserv "hey listen its me using this nick, its ok" 05:08:51 "plz dont boot me in 30 seconds" 05:09:08 aha thank you 05:09:09 augur: um augur is not your nick is it? 05:09:16 it will be! 05:09:27 so it was released yesterday too? 05:09:36 yes 05:09:44 the cunt who had it was never online EVER and i couldnt get the nick 05:09:44 jolly good 05:10:14 augur: if he had been away for 60 days you could get it by asking, even before the purge 05:10:24 and if he hadn't, it shouldn't have been purged 05:10:41 pfft. i tried but noone was ever fucking able to tell me what to do 05:10:48 oh 05:10:53 hoorah! 05:11:05 FINALLY i can have my fucking nick 05:11:14 * Saites notes that lilo is still registered, with the "Hold" flag. 05:11:16 augur: You couldn't find anybody to tell you /join #freenode ? :P 05:11:26 gregorr: i had done 05:11:26 Saites: I noted that as well. 05:11:34 but noone THERE knew what the fuck i could do 05:11:48 Nobody there told you to /stats p? 05:11:54 no. 05:22:37 -!- Where has joined. 05:22:50 * Where in the world is Gregor Richards? 8-D 05:23:02 -!- Where has changed nick to When. 05:23:18 -!- When has changed nick to Why. 05:23:44 -!- Why has left (?). 05:24:01 yo dawg, i heard you like gregor richards, so we put a gregor richards in you so you can, erm, something. 05:24:40 Excuse me while I make myself the king of /me-sentences :P 05:26:11 -!- augur has changed nick to Where. 05:26:21 * Where in the world is Carmen San Diego? 8-D 05:26:23 -!- Where has changed nick to augur. 05:26:31 -!- That has joined. 05:26:45 * That I am the king of /me-nicks is undisputable. 05:27:02 -!- That has changed nick to Every. 05:27:11 -!- augur has changed nick to Suddenly. 05:27:15 * Every good /me nick belongs to me! 05:27:15 * Suddenly I feel this is silly. 05:27:18 -!- Suddenly has changed nick to augur. 05:27:26 mm quantifiers 05:27:36 every, you have chosen a nice nick. 05:27:41 quantification <3 05:27:49 -!- Every has changed nick to Why. 05:27:58 * Why would you say this is silly? 05:28:13 -!- oerjan has changed nick to And. 05:28:23 * And this one is just to annoy ehird 05:28:30 haha 05:28:36 -!- And has changed nick to oerjan. 05:29:02 * Saites is a singular common noun and therefore cannot occur at the beginning of a sentence. 05:29:16 Minus the "common" part. 05:29:23 this is false. 05:29:30 -!- Why has changed nick to When. 05:29:35 * When is dinner? 05:29:56 singular nouns can appear at the beginning of a sentence 05:30:32 tho i believe what you really mean is that semantically singular non-mass nouns in english require non-zero determiners. 05:30:49 -!- When has left (?). 05:31:10 Actually, "Saites" might be an adjective. I don't really know. 05:31:21 adjectives can begin sentences. 05:31:27 Indeed. 05:31:38 * Saites people are always from Egypt. 05:31:50 what does saites mean anyway 05:31:53 Or maybe it's a singular adjective. 05:31:56 and what languae is it 05:32:02 english does not have number in adjectives. 05:32:11 It's Greek for "from Sais, Egypt". 05:32:22 -!- Your has joined. 05:32:24 ah. so then you shouldnt be using it in english :D 05:32:26 And it's a noun. 05:32:31 * Your BRAIN IS ON FIRE!!! 05:32:41 NetHack! 05:32:49 why are you yelling in only part of the sentence? 05:32:56 -!- Your has changed nick to NetHack. 05:33:02 guys have i mentioned my Brief History of Grammar? 05:33:47 hm -ites is the same as english -ite, right? 05:34:12 so you would at least drop the -s when using it in english 05:34:20 unless you pluralize it 05:34:37 he said "Sais" means egypt 05:34:49 no he didn't 05:34:53 not clearly, anyway 05:34:59 "It's Greek for "from Sais, Egypt". 05:35:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sais 05:35:14 unless sais is a citty in egypt 05:35:17 -!- NetHack has changed nick to slashdot. 05:35:19 which it is 05:35:19 >_> 05:35:19 in which case it doesnt matter 05:35:22 <_< 05:35:24 since the point is the word is "sais" 05:35:32 Do I want this? 05:35:35 yes 05:35:39 -!- slashdot has changed nick to SlashDot. 05:35:45 so it could be sais + es 05:35:59 and s becomes t before the -es 'from' suffix 05:36:01 -!- SlashDot has changed nick to Slashdot. 05:36:02 or before e 05:36:04 or before a vowel 05:36:08 or word medially 05:36:09 or whatevr 05:36:24 well is -es or -ites the from suffix? 05:36:26 -!- Slashdot has left (?). 05:36:45 is ihope greek/fluent in greek? 05:36:58 i was more hoping you were 05:37:03 no, im not. 05:37:04 -!- Smalltalk has joined. 05:37:07 D: 05:37:08 Finally found a language nick. 05:37:10 smalltalk?! 05:37:15 -!- augur has changed nick to Smalltalk-80. 05:37:22 Cheating! :P 05:37:24 you could have this instead 05:37:25 its better 05:37:28 -!- Smalltalk has changed nick to Fortran. 05:37:29 -!- Smalltalk-80 has changed nick to Squeak. 05:37:32 or this 05:37:40 :NickServ!NickServ@services. NOTICE Fortran :You have too many nicks registered already. 05:37:45 :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( 05:37:47 lol 05:37:54 -!- Squeak has changed nick to augur. 05:38:02 '*** Notice -- Too many nick changes; wait 0 seconds before trying again' 05:38:11 THANKS FREENODE 05:38:14 Apparently 20 is the limit. 05:38:19 lol 05:38:20 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 05:39:25 -!- Fortran has changed nick to Beagleboard. 05:39:26 "The Dynasty's reign (c. 685-525 BC) is also called the Saite Period after the city of Sais" 05:39:30 -!- Beagleboard has left (?). 05:39:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saite 05:39:43 have i ever mentioned how much i hate PHP 05:39:47 because i hate pgp 05:39:48 php* 05:40:08 pretty hopeless privacy 05:40:23 lol 05:40:32 pretty hopeless programming, more like it 05:40:38 php added goto recently, ISNT THAT SWELL? 05:40:47 granted its a limited goto but 05:41:04 even so, its trashy. 05:42:23 -!- write has joined. 05:42:27 >_> <_< 05:42:38 that looks rong 05:43:16 -!- write has changed nick to read. 05:43:27 -!- GregorR has changed nick to write. 05:43:32 I am quite seriously changing my nick. 05:43:36 For the first time in ever. 05:43:38 I am now 'write' 05:43:42 roses are read, violets blew 05:44:11 this is a time of great changes 05:44:21 in a week i won't remember who _anyone_ is 05:44:58 except for a few 05:44:58 i already dont, oerjan 05:45:21 OH MAN 05:45:25 There are so many juicy unowned nicks. 05:45:29 -!- read has left (?). 05:46:10 ARGH. cc is unowned. 05:46:18 I could be the C compiler! 05:46:32 2 letters are allowed? 05:46:37 hah. they just expired em eh 05:46:39 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 05:46:53 1 letter is allowed .... but probably taken 05:49:04 Hm, I could be Codu, too. 05:49:58 I know very little Greek. 05:50:09 how much code could codu code if codu could code code 05:50:46 Codu can code code, biatch! 05:51:00 Woodchuck is free :P 05:51:34 what is this 05:51:45 all these nicks dropped so everyone is going to go suck them up again and not use them? 05:51:50 how should i know? \o/ 05:51:50 | 05:51:50 /< 05:52:02 Hey, I'm using one! 05:53:16 what myndzi needs is some precognition /o\ 05:53:17 | 05:53:17 /< 05:53:23 wut 05:53:41 that doesn't really work 05:53:54 -!- cpressey has joined. 05:54:00 oooh 05:54:05 gah 05:54:12 This would be a cool moment if you ignore the hostmask ;) 05:54:16 * oerjan swats the fake cpressey -----### 05:54:32 I should register it for ... protective purposes? 05:55:09 what about people standing on their head? \< 05:55:11 Anybody trawling a log with no host info, <-- GregorR, not really cpressey 05:55:42 IMPOSTER ------^ 05:56:00 Hey, at least I said so myself :P 05:56:26 cannot be too careful 05:56:37 -!- cpressey has changed nick to graue. 05:56:53 Surely graue has been on recently enough not to lose his nick??? 05:57:02 not necessarily 05:57:23 he is here extremely rarely 05:57:40 he doesn't even show up on the wiki these days unless you mail him 05:59:43 We should all change our nicks to open, close, read, write, pipe and go hang out in ##unix. 06:01:26 I see nobody else finds this idea awesome :P 06:02:24 -!- graue has changed nick to make. 06:02:32 So many good nicks, so little time D-8 06:02:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("fork"). 06:03:36 And I have still only changed my nick once. 06:03:57 I've only made one as-yet-unreversed nick change :P 06:08:13 More unowned nicks: html, porn, Solaris (but in use), Stalin, ussr, two, three, four, email, NickHoarder 06:08:55 D-8 06:08:56 8-D 06:08:57 any of you dudes wanna help me with a hardware conundrum? 06:09:08 i've got a PSU that has a 24 pin connector with 4 pins detachable 06:09:18 (for 20 / 4 motherboards) 06:09:28 but the motherboard has a 24 pin and also a 4 pin connector 06:09:43 both are new purchases, shit wouldn't power on with just the 24 pins connected 06:09:51 well it would, but it wouldn't do anything 06:10:21 * write has no hardware knowledge. 06:11:25 More unowned nicks: Leela, Bender, Zoidberg, Hermes, Zapp, Kif 06:13:49 4chan helped me :) 06:13:52 * write just typed /whois god 06:14:06 i'm a budget sorta guy so i only ever do this every few years 06:14:09 seems there's always something new 06:14:19 real name, unknown! 06:14:24 this time i apparently missed that i am supposed to plug an 8 pin lead from the PSU into the 4 pin port on the mobo o_O 06:15:48 luckily i didn't try detaching the 4 pin thing from the 24 pin thing and using it! coulda messed things up :( 06:16:23 More unowned nicks: admin, op, unix, glibc, fast, calorimeter 06:16:28 And now, to sleep X-P 06:16:33 -!- make has quit. 06:16:34 wow, "op" eh? 06:16:45 You might find yourself losing that nick :P 06:16:46 too bad not "peer" :) 06:17:04 losing my nick? no, it is safely registered 06:17:20 Nono, I meant "op" 06:17:22 If you were to take it. 06:17:26 yeah, i was joking 06:17:34 but i don't know why someone would take it from me if i regged it 06:21:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:23:05 -!- Microsoft has joined. 06:23:09 Hellooooooooooooo 06:23:27 * Saites quickly /whos Microsoft before he can drop any of his connections 06:23:43 You are Microsoft and write. 06:23:58 lawl, yes I am. 06:24:04 * Saites /whos himself. 06:24:22 I am Saites and loggic. 06:24:50 Except I don't actually know who loggic is. 06:25:02 -!- Microsoft has quit (Client Quit). 06:27:13 It's fun to /who your hostname and see who else is connected from your computer! 06:32:51 hm. 06:33:13 i think itd be useful to develop some sort of metalanguage that makes it trivially easy to experiment with proglang design 07:09:41 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:34:01 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:41:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:42:53 -!- lereah_ has joined. 08:52:46 hm 08:52:55 is there an HLL that compiles to BF? 09:47:25 There's gcc-bf, which I guess doesn't yet quite work? (And if you want an H-er HLL, quite a lot of things can be compiled to C.) 09:48:24 And bfbasic, of course, though that might be even less H. 10:13:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:52:19 so no, basically 10:52:51 what about a compiler-to-a-TM? 10:52:59 ive been tempted to write one of those for the fun of it 10:56:04 Haven't heard of one, but that's no conclusive evidence either way. 10:57:39 For to-BF compilation, there's C2BF too; I have no first-hand experience on how complete that one is. gcc-bf gets the whole GCC compilation magic for free, of course, so it's probably the best choice assuming (a) it is made to work at some point and (b) you don't mind rather large output programs. 11:03:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!"). 11:04:46 -!- Judofyr has quit ("raise Hand, 'wave'"). 11:18:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:22:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:22:20 hmm 11:22:29 i feel that compilation to BF or a TM is too easy 11:22:34 compilation to befunge! 11:26:43 That's not too hard either unless you start taking aesthetics into account. 11:27:42 I've written at least one BF to Befunge translator (can't remember why right now), so if you can compile to BF, you can compile to Befunge. 11:28:22 Compilation to some sort of befunge-as-written-by-a-skillful-human is another thing, of course. 11:32:14 augur: there's a Scheme to Befunge-98 compiler lying around somewhere 11:32:40 yeah i guess a to-befunge compiler could just use a bunch of generic constructs 11:33:34 we should try to make a language that is incredibly difficult to compile into, but not difficult to code in 11:33:55 just so very different than most other languages that translation requires significant conceptual changes 11:35:51 even the imperative-to-functional translation isnt conceptually difficult, right 11:36:13 because you can simulate all your state with a giant state dictionary that you map over 11:36:17 so that like 11:36:49 something like x = x + 1 is actually a map that leaves everything unchanged except the x entry, which gets mapped to x + 1 11:36:53 and so forth 11:37:13 which is actually how haskells state monad works, i think 11:37:23 so what would be a truly difficult translation, thats what i wonder 11:37:32 maybe imperative to declarative? 11:38:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:38:47 imperative to declarative isn't as hard as it looks 11:38:54 hm. 11:39:00 the most painful bit is replacing the loops with recursion, and assignments with SSA 11:39:13 but that can be done automatically, I think 11:39:17 but declarative doesnt really have recursion 11:39:36 it has enough recursion to construct a loop 11:39:44 even if it doesn't have anywhere near like functional-power recursion 11:39:56 i didnt think prolog had any sort of recursion except proof-related sorts 11:40:02 Prolog is a bit declarative, and it certainly can be written in a very imperative way. I did that Scheme interpreter. 11:40:10 hmm. 11:40:12 augur: a predicate can refer to itself 11:40:16 right 11:40:21 truth conditional recursive structures 11:40:21 which works more or less the same way as a function calling itself 11:40:24 ok. 11:40:39 in fact, recursion in Prolog > recursion in Scheme sometimes, because you can make things tail-recursive that wouldn't be in a functional language 11:40:51 hm. 11:40:56 so what is a difficult translation D: 11:42:16 -!- tombom has joined. 11:47:42 Since I had this link in the history, here's the Scheme-to-Befunge one: http://cubonegro.orgfree.com/sponge/sponge.html 11:48:01 It pretty much forgets about the 2d-aspect, puts all code on one line and uses x to move around. 11:48:42 So it's not very spirit-of-Funge. 11:48:59 if i were writing a compiler, i'd use the second dimension for achieving things like loops and conditionals 11:49:15 but not much else 11:49:21 anything where code is not simply sequential 11:50:01 The BF-to-Befunge I had turned each "[...]" into "translate ..., then use the next free line for the 'return path' of the loop". 11:50:16 much like Braktif, then 11:50:23 which was a BF-to-cellular-automaton compiler 11:50:28 bf-to-b seems easier 11:50:39 i mean, befunge seems to be a superset of bf functionality 11:50:47 to some extent, anyway 11:50:50 befunge doesn't exactly have a tape 11:50:53 right 11:50:55 although there are ways to emulate one 11:50:59 There's the space, though. 11:51:00 like using p and g, or the stack stack 11:51:13 a stack stack? 11:51:15 I did p/g with the index-of-tape always at top-of-stack. 11:51:38 a stack with two stacks could do a tape trivially 11:51:48 Funge-98 has a stack of stacks, and you can move elements from the topmost to the one under it. That's very tape-like. 11:51:58 yeah, thats a tape. 11:53:25 id really like to see more conceptually difficult languages, and not so much simply tediously difficult languages 11:53:27 you know? 11:53:28 :\ 11:53:52 String-rewriting languages are fun to write in. 11:53:54 bf and befunge and so forth are just pains to code, they're not necessarily conceptually difficult 11:54:00 fizzie: agreed 11:54:01 string rewriting languages? 11:54:05 meaning what, exactly? 11:54:07 their main problem is that they're so /slow/ 11:54:07 Things like Thue. 11:54:11 oh. 11:54:14 but it's a good paradigm to work in 11:54:18 so you mean just formal grammars. 11:54:28 also, certain problems with making sure things are unique 11:54:41 i find that formal grammars are so close to TMs in how you achieve certain things 11:54:54 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 11:54:55 also, formal grammars are a sort of rewriting lang 11:55:02 but there are rewriting langs that aren't formal grammars 11:55:06 like Thutu, for instance 11:55:08 examples? 11:55:12 thutu? 11:55:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thutu 11:55:30 I should get around to standardising a Thutu wimpmode, sometime 11:55:40 apart from the efficiency penalty, it's a really nice lang to program in 11:55:44 I made Thutubot that way 11:55:52 and a FORTE interp 11:56:18 i dont entirely follow 11:56:28 but i get the feeling that thutu is not simply a rewriting system 11:56:38 it's still a rewriting-based language 11:56:41 rewriting's a paradigm 11:56:54 yes, it isn't as pure as Thue; but that doesn't make it a different paradigm 11:57:05 just like Lisp isn't quite as pure as Haskell, but that doesn't prevent it being functional 11:57:10 right 11:57:23 in my mind, a rewriting system is pure rewriting, nothing else. 11:57:46 but then, i come from a more theoretical perspective 11:58:00 I suppose you can distinguish the tarpit from the paradigm 11:58:06 e.g. not all imperative languages are Brainfuck 11:58:19 right 11:58:23 no i get this 11:58:44 it just seems like there are aspects of coding thutu that arent rewriting, and these seem to be important core features 11:58:49 but im not reading the whole thing so 11:59:00 it's basically just contextualisation 11:59:09 you could replace the IP by a rewriting-based one too if you wanted to 11:59:13 i need to get to sleep tho dude 11:59:14 but that would be less efficient for no reason 11:59:22 and ok 12:02:51 night man 12:02:57 night 12:09:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:09:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:11:29 -!- Corun has joined. 12:18:59 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:19:24 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 12:23:08 http://pastie.org/509534 12:34:40 -!- MizardX has quit ("What are you sinking about?"). 13:00:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:09:11 -!- lereah_ has quit ("Leaving"). 13:11:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:13:00 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:33:04 From a PHP-based website (with ~30 minutes between them, and a reload fixed it both times) I got two "fatal error" messages: "Non-static method (null)::@o/b.() cannot be called statically" and "Non-static method (null):: **.() cannot be called statically". It almost looks like some sort of esolang. 13:58:33 Hrm. 13:58:40 Discovered the problem with this nick ;P 14:01:21 which would be? 14:01:48 confusing grammar? :D 14:01:58 The word "write" has meanings other than me :P 14:02:07 So all my tabs are highlighted with unrelated conversations >_> 14:02:14 ah 14:02:42 there had to be a reason it wasn't taken already... 14:03:13 -!- write has changed nick to GregorR. 14:03:20 Well, that was a fun experiment anyway :P 14:07:37 Oh, you were you. I didn't know. 14:22:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:35:52 -!- ski__ has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:38:00 -!- ski__ has joined. 14:44:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:51:05 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:51:09 hi 14:51:34 hi 14:54:42 -!- whtspc has joined. 15:03:11 -!- MizardX has joined. 15:03:43 hello 15:03:56 somebody knows about boolean algebra? 15:06:46 I'm quite new to the subject, but I understand that with a bunch of nand gates you can create any gate, and circuit 15:07:22 yes 15:07:30 well, any digital circuit 15:07:33 with finite memory 15:07:41 So if 'n' is a NAND-gate and A and B are switches or wires 15:07:55 you can do it with nor gates too, but NAND gates happen to be easier to put onto a chip 15:08:05 due to there being a type of transistor that more or less does a NAND 15:08:38 and if you make that sort of transistor in reverse so as to get a NOR, the resulting device characteristics are completely different from the normal ones 15:08:38 (AnA(AnB))n(An(BnB) would be a circuit I could draw 15:08:55 yes and I read NAND-gates are cheaper? 15:08:56 it would be if the parens matched, and you removed the second occurrence of A 15:09:17 yep, as long as you want them to obey the normal characteristics of ICs 15:09:43 such as 0 being more readily available as the positive rail, asymmetric distribution of thresholds on TTL, etc 15:09:50 ok, I just typed something with A's B's and n's 15:09:53 actually, with modern CMOS devices, NAND and NOR are the same way 15:09:57 *same difficulty 15:10:01 because they're done the same way 15:10:16 but NAND was easier in the days of TTL, so the concept of using NAND rather than NOR stuck 15:10:22 that's all a bit above my head :? 15:10:25 and nowadays, NAND's slightly cheaper than NOR for economic reasons 15:10:44 because the semiconductor companies want people to all order the same chip, rather than mix between NAND and NOR, for stock reasons 15:10:54 so they make NOR marginally more expensive so everyone goes for the NAND 15:11:46 lol 15:12:00 I wonder if I can make a statement in boolean algebra that reads this circuit:http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/images/rs-110.gif 15:12:15 NAND-latch 15:12:20 where can i learn boolean algebra 15:12:34 flipflop 15:13:07 There are 4 wires there 15:13:12 and where can i learn boolean algebra 15:14:08 Basically, the result of the bottom NAND goes as the second parameter of the top NAND 15:14:20 and the result of the top NAND goes as the first parameter of the bottom NAND 15:14:37 so there are 4 wires 15:16:14 http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/DOS/pdf/ch02.pdf 15:16:30 was pretty readable I thought 15:17:24 Well, wouldn't it create an infinite loop 15:17:32 that's the point 15:17:38 in order to do a latch, you need a loop 15:17:43 otherwise, how could it remember anything? 15:18:04 well, yes 15:18:41 every topic on boolean algebra stops where it gets interesting in my point of view 15:18:54 at the point where the latches come in 15:19:22 it makes me think you can't describe a latch within one statement 15:19:23 well, basically, the idea is this: if you have a loop in a practical circuit 15:19:36 then if there's exactly one value for elements in the loop that doesn't lead to a contradiction, it takes that value 15:19:45 if there's more than one, it takes the value it last had (if that one's legal) 15:19:58 if there are zero, things get rather fun but into the scope of practical electronics, rather than boolean algebra 15:25:47 If I try to describe to picture of the NAND-latch, and name the upperwire A and the other one B 15:25:49 An(Bn(An(Bn(An(Bn(An .... 15:25:50 I want to be sure I'm trying to do something that's impossible, 15:25:52 but I hope I make a stupid mistake. 15:26:04 whtspc: it's because you can't write loops as a function like that 15:26:13 you're trying to unroll there 15:26:16 whereas you need to recurse 15:27:02 But would an additional element in the piece of text make it possible you think? 15:27:34 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:27:35 yes, the usual way to do something like that would be f=Ang, g=Bnf 15:27:47 where f and g are functions, which both reference each other 15:28:25 multiple statements, I see 15:29:51 yes 15:30:15 and in this case, if you would read it/parse it and you encounter g for the first time in function f, would you simply consider g as false (0)? 15:31:08 whtspc: no, it takes its previous value 15:31:26 if it didn't have a previous value, in practice it's generally determined by things like random electrostatic drif 15:31:28 *drift 15:31:50 this is why most practical circuits normally have resets, as I was telling ehird yesterday 15:32:01 because you don't know what values your latches initialized too 15:32:07 *initialized to 15:32:11 -!- inurinternet has joined. 15:33:03 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 15:33:19 I see, that's an answer I understand :) 15:33:43 but then... 15:33:51 I too understand that. 15:34:03 Whatever it is you're referring to. 15:34:12 so the answer is, until you've forced the circuit to one value in particular (by doing an operation that causes both values to become that value), you have no clue what value's there 15:34:33 this explains one of the nine values of VHDL's booleans: U means that you've just switched the circuit on and as yet, the value there is unknown 15:35:54 does this mean you can't create a programming language that solely exist out of a clock and nand gates, 15:36:09 you can; you just have to come up with a clever method to do initialisation 15:36:17 you generally need a reset input from somewhere 15:36:31 practical computers use the rate of change of the power supply; if you didn't have power a second ago but you do now, reset 15:36:55 (and some have reset buttons on the front too, but nowadays computer-makers tend not to add those) 15:37:43 if that reset would be that every unknown 'variable' the program pointer encounters == false wouldn't work? 15:38:13 the reset's normally wired up to the set-to-0 wires of the latches 15:38:27 so in case of the f = Ang, g = unknown so 0 15:38:33 as in, on the set-to-0 input, you put (reset OR user wants setting to 0) 15:38:36 Ok cool! 15:38:48 not that I can program interpreters :) 15:39:01 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:39:02 so to start with, you have f = A n g, g = A n f 15:39:06 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:39:07 * g = B n f 15:39:16 when not setting, A = 1, B = 1 15:39:27 so f = 1 n U = U, g = 1 n U = U 15:39:37 now, say you reset by changing A to 0 15:39:45 then, f = 0 n U = 1, g = 1 n 1 = 0 15:39:53 and you've got the unknown data out of your system 15:40:12 (0 nand U = 1 because 0 nand 1 = 1 and 0 nand 0 = 1) 15:40:59 That makes a lot more sense now, 15:41:39 I only have to let it come down to me for a while, 15:41:48 but thank you, you're great! 15:44:45 well, I'm an electrical and computer engineer in RL 15:44:50 so this is my day job to know 15:49:56 -!- Sgeo_ has quit ("Leaving"). 15:50:15 I'll try not to bother with your work anymore :) , weekend just started 15:54:50 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 16:01:39 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:16:50 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 16:20:48 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:59:48 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 17:29:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:31:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:13:57 I need to do a NAND esolang lat---wait, Circute 18:17:42 Just futz with Wireworld. 18:17:46 Is awesome. 18:17:59 Wireworld is always fun. 18:18:19 Yeah, it's a pretty nice CA. 18:18:24 Somebody should make a (somehow) smaller version of Wireworld and call it Wireland. 18:18:32 Hahah. 18:19:02 Someone should make something like an Etch-a-Sketch with a WireWorld emulator inside 18:19:16 Probably add a semiconductor, so as to get smaller logic. 18:19:18 ETCH-SOME-WIRES 18:19:35 "Etch-some-wires" :P 18:19:50 maybe Etch-a-circuit 18:20:17 Man. We are growing organs *right now*. 18:20:33 It would really be a cool toy 18:20:36 Super Wire Land 18:20:37 if it had a 1000x1000 resolution 18:20:38 -!- M0ny has joined. 18:20:49 monamonamona 18:20:51 you could etch the WireWorld computer on it 18:20:57 monamonamoney 18:21:05 er 18:21:10 Not merely "Oh, we grew a few organs in a lab, they look about right". 18:21:10 monamonamoney^H^Ha 18:21:16 how about Brainfuck-to-WireWorld compiler? 18:21:20 Clinical trials are nearly over. 18:21:27 lifthrasiir: CRAZY but COOL 18:21:47 what about Brainfuck-to-Circute (easier) and then Circute-to-Wireworld 18:21:51 it should take 10^8 generations for one instruction... :p 18:21:59 must* 18:22:06 oh no it won't 18:23:08 How about Brainfuck in Wireworld? 18:23:18 asiekierka: it can take much shorter at expense of space, though. 18:25:24 Did anyone implement a transistor in Wireworld? 18:27:04 Honestly, don't know. 18:28:01 I *do* know that there's a register machine in it. 18:28:08 transistors are essentially analog 18:28:08 me too 18:28:12 and wireworld's digital 18:28:19 I want to make an esolang that operates only on transistors 18:28:20 you could implement a gate, but gates don't have all the features of transistors 18:28:23 and the code is a transistor map 18:28:37 asiekierka: transistors are believed to be the most practical way to write noit o' mnain worb programs 18:28:51 ...what programs? 18:30:31 asiekierka: look it up on Esolang 18:30:38 I'm not entirely sure how to encode that offhand 18:35:11 ais523: I'm not entirely sure what that stream of letters means. 18:35:24 “noit o' mnain worb”? 18:35:31 “noit o' mnain worb”‽ 18:35:40 ¡ENGLISH, MAN! 18:35:46 pikhq: it's the name of an esolang 18:35:55 Ah. 18:37:12 not o(ur) main orb? 18:47:06 sdrawk cab tid aer 18:47:42 Asztal: :D 18:55:25 pikhq: reversal. 18:57:31 lifthrasiir: I know now. 18:57:50 well, certainly i was too late. :p 18:57:51 To prove this, I shall make a comment about a hot cup of tea. 19:40:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 19:48:31 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:48:55 -!- ehird has set topic: SPIC: We spell the computer of the spirits with our conjours | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 19:49:13 noit o' mnain worb is such a lovely name 19:50:41 wireworld could be so much cooler 19:51:12 i have some ideas for a nicer CA circuit thingy but probably ais523 would tell me that's how circuits work IRL> 19:51:13 *. 19:51:21 and i wouldn't have invented it any more. 19:51:32 heh 19:53:34 it basically involves lanes that little cells can go on, and if you hit a crossroad (= logic gate) it changes and you go somewhere 19:53:36 like: 19:54:51 | 19:54:51 -A-<--< 19:54:53 | 19:54:55 -A<--<- 19:54:57 ^ 19:54:59 -B--<-- 19:55:01 (^ then goes off this snippet of the screen) 19:55:03 | 19:55:05 -B-<--- 19:55:07 | 19:55:09 -B<---- 19:55:11 | 19:55:13 (ditto for <) 19:55:17 | 19:55:19 -A----- 19:56:34 ais523: amirite 19:57:03 that's rather different from real circuits 19:57:05 so you're OK 19:57:32 ais523: hooray 19:58:01 ais523: I'm not sure it's a cellular automata, as things need to travel on paths, and cells can only affect cells that hit them (and often transform themselves in the process, or release new sparks) 19:58:05 well it is 19:58:09 just more complex than usual 19:58:20 see Wireworld for how to do that as a CA 19:59:10 ais523: i was talking about wireworld before that... 19:59:15 yes, I know 19:59:17 ais523: but wireworld is too CA and not circuit-y enough imo :P 20:00:37 -!- MizardX has joined. 20:04:35 omg 20:04:36 http://www.zen6741.zen.co.uk/wi-gifs/block.gif 20:04:41 that's beautiful. 20:05:57 -!- whtspc has joined. 20:06:02 hi whtspc 20:06:08 hi ehird 20:07:39 -!- tetha has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:07:48 -!- tetha has joined. 20:07:58 ehird: http://www.rezmason.net/wireworld/ 20:07:58 is there a reversible, turing complete CA? 20:08:06 20:04 ehird: omg 20:08:06 20:04 ehird: http://www.zen6741.zen.co.uk/wi-gifs/block.gif 20:08:08 20:04 ehird: that's beautiful. 20:08:10 whtspc: and yeh 20:08:12 I was using that :) 20:08:17 very slow though. 20:08:54 whtspc: i mean, it didn't calculate one prime in like 5 minutes 20:09:21 I've never see it do anything too 20:09:34 whtspc: the java version on the site http://quinapalus.com/ calculated "3" 20:09:38 but is laggy and crap 20:09:42 like all applets 20:11:18 and the javascript interpreter: http://people.bath.ac.uk/amg24/ma10126/wireworld/simulator.html sucks too 20:11:35 and w/ golly you can only paint one colour in it for some reason 20:12:30 Hm? 20:12:34 golly works alright for me 20:12:42 FireFly: try it for wireworld 20:12:46 Yeah 20:12:46 you can only paint one colour 20:12:46 http://216.14.122.182/images/66602tmp2.png 20:12:49 and that colour as a circle 20:12:52 which is fucked up 20:12:52 It prints FireFly in some ways 20:12:57 ^ did that in Golly 20:13:02 Which is in WireWorld 20:13:05 FireFly: how do you paint a colour other than blue 20:13:15 Um 20:13:20 i see. 20:13:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:13:45 http://216.14.122.182/images/7037tmp3.png 20:13:58 oh hm i've used that bar before 20:14:02 ^ Just click on the colours 20:14:03 guess i need to re-put it thar 20:14:06 Hm 20:14:07 it's not showing y'see 20:14:08 FireFly: ew kde. 20:14:12 :P 20:18:48 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Wireworld_XOR-gate.gif 20:18:51 i can't get this to work 20:18:57 my clocks produce one and then give up 20:19:15 FireFly: give that firefly thing as a Golly file? 20:19:23 Sure 20:19:36 did you make it? 20:19:40 it's neat. 20:21:36 http://firefly.nu/diverse/wi_screen-imp-2.6.rle 20:21:50 Yeah, took me some time 20:22:12 But at least it made the programming lessons more interesting 20:22:34 FireFly: mah screen isn't big neough to keep it all zoomed in! 20:22:45 w/ golly stuff :P 20:22:46 Neither is mine 20:23:18 FireFly: erm you have no connections to the screen 20:23:23 Hm? 20:23:33 Which of them? 20:23:53 FireFly: the ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP 20:24:05 Meh, that one is just a copy of the real one 20:24:09 It's to the right 20:24:26 It was just to simplify which lines toggled which segments 20:24:30 FireFly: ohh it makes pictures! 20:24:34 i thought it just lit up the letters 20:24:36 that is impressive. 20:24:40 It's supposed to print out "FireFly" 20:24:43 Or, "FIREFLY" 20:24:43 it does 20:24:52 Good :) 20:25:26 ais523: x86 in WireWorld. 20:25:32 ais523: And how, you say? 20:25:36 oh dear 20:25:37 ais523: VHDL→WireWorld compiler. You may now scream. 20:25:43 but clever 20:26:01 ais523: Actually, that might be quite possible, mightn't it? 20:26:05 Or at least a VHDL-like tarpit. 20:26:17 yes 20:26:24 Hm./ 20:26:26 such as the synthesizable set of VHDL 20:26:36 ais523: Yes, but more tarpitty. 20:26:56 that is pretty tarpitty 20:27:12 ais523: But not enough for an esoproject. 20:30:17 http://www.opensparc.net/ I want to be able to synthesize that into WireWorld! 20:30:58 SPARC is for lamers. 20:32:01 But it IS open source. 20:38:50 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 20:52:40 -!- Asztal_ has joined. 20:58:42 ais523: how easy do you think it would be? 20:58:57 probably about as hard as gcc-bf 20:59:14 ais523: huh? you can do things like clocks in wireworld with like 15 cells 20:59:26 and xor gates too 21:00:09 yes, parsing and tarpitting the VHDL would be the hard part I imagine 21:00:23 ais523: when i meant tarpit, I of course meant an easy-to-parse variation 21:00:31 You don't need all of VHDL to make some cool machines. 21:00:42 Get the SPARC processor source free! OK. ENTER EMAIL AND PASSWORD OR SIGN UP 21:01:53 OpenSPARC T2 chip design 1.2 release 21:01:54 OpenSPARCT2.1.2.tar.bz2 237.64 MB 21:01:59 ais523: do you think that's 237MB of text? 21:02:10 i'm excited to look at the VHDL/whatever code. 21:02:12 I hope not 21:02:33 ais523: well, it IS the complete source of a modern, enterprise-grade server microprocessor... 21:02:49 multi-core too 21:03:07 ais523: i mean, i wouldn't expect it to be small... 21:03:32 [[Sun announced the T2's release on 7 August 2007, billing it as "the world's fastest microprocessor"]] 21:03:36 [[Verilog RTL source code of the design 21:03:36 Verification environment 21:03:38 Diagnostics tests 21:03:40 Open source tools, scripts and Sun internal tools needed to simulate the design 21:03:42 ISA specification (UltraSPARC Architecture 2007) 21:03:44 Solaris 10 OS simulation images]] 21:03:46 guess it's the last one that's big 21:04:11 yes, could be 21:05:32 ais523: but i'm not actually sure how complex modern processors would be; I'd expect at least 10MB of source code 21:05:37 could be a lot 21:06:13 21:01 ehird: ais523: do you think that's 237MB of text? ← well more like 238 21:09:09 -!- FireyFly has joined. 21:09:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:11:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:11:16 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 21:12:10 ais523: if windows 7 won't include IE in europe, I wonder how people are meant to download a browser? 21:12:21 perhaps it prompts them whether to download IE or not when you access a URL 21:12:28 ehird: the EU said that too 21:12:35 ais523: heh 21:12:41 they said that they asked for more choice in browsers, and Microsoft were providing less 21:12:47 which is a great response 21:13:07 ais523: omg; does this mean that another browser might be available in a stock windows? even if it's a open-it-and-it'll-download 21:13:11 (prolly not, MS has $$$) 21:13:19 that's what the EU wants, I don't know if they'll get it 21:13:20 ais523: they'd probably use maxthon or one of the other IE-with-another-shell browsers. 21:13:33 that way it's as shitty as IE 21:13:44 [they could disable the extra features by default] 21:14:31 * Sgeo whargarbles at both MSN Messenger Live and AVG Security Tolbar 21:14:41 lol@windows sucking. 21:16:48 Ok, AVG toolbar forcibly put Yahoo! search in the thing that comes up when I open a new tab 21:17:39 No, I don't want you redisplaying weekly, I disabled that a while ago! Learn to keep options across upgrades! 21:17:48 Sgeo: It sure must suck to use windows 21:19:09 It's worth it for the ability to use Active Worlds, and easily set up other games as meets my fancy 21:19:24 WINE, VMs and dual-booting are all non-existant fantasies. 21:19:34 True store. 21:19:36 Story, even. 21:19:45 bsmntbombdood: i found an i7 975 XE for sale 21:20:04 When I feel like just surfing the web quickly, I boot into Linux 21:21:11 ais523: the actual cpu.v is just 736KB 21:21:23 but there's tons more files & directories 21:21:34 ais523: and that's still 15,638 lines 21:21:47 pretty impressive 21:21:57 a lot of it is "wire [blah] foo;" lines 21:22:07 .zcp_dmc_ack0 (zcp_dmc_ack0), // <= 21:22:07 .zcp_dmc_ack1 (zcp_dmc_ack1), // <= 21:22:09 .zcp_dmc_dat0 (zcp_dmc_dat0[ 129 : 0 ]), // <= 21:22:11 stuff like that too 21:22:13 then it starts using => instead of <= 21:22:31 ais523: would I be right in guessing this is probably autogenerated? 21:22:47 quite possibly 21:22:54 it seems to be mostly a bunch of initializations or something 21:22:56 although even Sun's human-written stuff looks autogenerated 21:22:56 instead of actual logic 21:23:12 and yes 21:23:19 mostly it will be connections 21:23:29 rather than the things that are connected 21:23:37 I wonder where the actual logic is 21:24:02 ais523: holy damn, the expanded folder is 1.52GB 21:24:16 n2_efuhdr1_ctl.v 21:24:18 uh, of course. 21:24:28 assign received_instr[ 21 : 0 ] = efu_hdr_xfer_en_r1 ? efu_instr[ 21 : 0 ] 21:24:28 : rdcount == 5'd23 ? sync_read 21:24:29 : dispatch_read_data ? ({instr[ 20 : 0 ],1'b0}) : 22'b0; 21:24:31 ais523: is that logic? 21:24:33 it looks like logic. 21:24:51 there are a bunch of empty lines and long lines here 21:24:53 smells of preprocessing 21:25:10 yes, that's logic 21:25:26 ais523: they don't have any actual explanatory comments :-) 21:25:41 hey, I bet Sun stripped comments 21:25:44 before releasing it 21:25:47 that would explain the empty lines 21:25:52 ais523: that'd be fucking stupid, though 21:26:02 unless they want people to pay for a full version 21:26:02 and it doesn't account for the simply unintelligable, ultra-long lines 21:26:06 ais523: nope 21:26:07 you can't 21:26:09 see opensparc.net 21:26:11 ah 21:26:24 huh, the i7's max temperature is rated at 67.9C 21:26:32 that's a rather low resistance to temperature... 21:27:50 ais523: they actually have verilog verification stuff! 21:28:08 verif: 1.23GB 21:28:10 design: 41MB 21:28:14 i wonder what big file's in there... 21:28:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:28:21 ehird: makes sense, it's hard to use without 21:28:26 and probably a huge set of inputs and expected outputs 21:28:33 hm 21:28:34 for a processor, that'll be /massive/ 21:28:38 ais523: wait, why? wouldn't you just produce an actual chip? 21:28:41 i mean, i get it for testing 21:28:44 but why is it hard to use without 21:28:47 so i think i have a general layout for my language dev environment 21:28:48 because chips are expensive 21:28:55 and you need to test the hardware too 21:29:02 ais523: synthesize on an FPGA? 21:29:04 well 21:29:07 i guess it's far too big 21:29:13 ais523: still, that's not use 21:29:14 that's test 21:29:16 or at the very least, the basic layout of the grammar system 21:29:40 ais523: i think the big bit is the OS image that i think is in there 21:29:48 could be 21:30:01 -!- jix has joined. 21:30:17 % du -h verif|grep 'G' 21:30:17 1.2Gverif/diag/assembly 21:30:18 1.2Gverif/diag 21:30:20 1.2Gverif 21:30:27 so something in the assembly folder 21:30:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 21:31:04 ais523: seems to be just an awful lot of assembly code. 21:31:18 maybe it's the binaries to the OS, rather than source 21:31:30 or an exhaustive testcase of all the asm they have 21:31:34 ais523: they end with .s, but I stopped digging through the tree by then 21:31:37 that would be a good way to test a processor 21:31:57 ais523: why aren't processors made with provably-correct languages? 21:32:02 that would be awesome. 21:33:06 "open source users are pussies who are afraid of a little hard labor. waaah, I want the source code. waaah, I don't want to be in danger of DMCA threats" 21:33:11 *g* 21:34:43 Using open source softwares is hard enough, ehird 21:41:36 http://ordiluc.net/fs/libetc/ 21:51:28 There was a course that talked a bit of formal verification stuff (mostly model-checking), and there was a visiting lecturer from Intel; I seem to remember something about the formal proof-of-correctness ("with a mixture of STE and theorem proving" according to some slides) for the Pentium 4 FPU being the "largest" formal-verification thing up to that point. 21:51:46 fizzie: FDIV 21:51:48 :P 21:52:16 To quote those slides: "we don't want another FDIV". 21:52:56 "Intel wrote of $475M to cover the FDIV bug, and suffered considerable damage to itse reputation. A similar error today could be much more expensive." That's not cheap. 21:53:38 fizzie: They wrote of an amount of money? Why? I guess they care about itse reputation. 21:54:20 "On December 20, 1994 Intel offered to replace all flawed Pentium processors on the basis of request, in response to mounting public pressure.[8] This had a huge potential cost to the company, although it turned out that only a small fraction of Pentium owners bothered to get their chips replaced[citation needed]." 21:54:41 Don't know where the $475M figure comes from; it could be some sort of theoretical lost-money calculation. 21:54:58 fizzie: Recalled processors? And I was jokin' 'bout the typos. 21:55:07 [[At its worst, this error can occur as high as the fourth significant digit of a decimal number, but the possibilities of this happening are 1 in 360 billion. It is most common that the error appears in the 9th or 10th decimal digit, which yields a chance of this happening of 1 in 9 billion.]] 21:58:07 http://download.intel.com/technology/itj/q12001/pdf/art_3.pdf "The Pentium 4 processor was the first project of its kind at Intel to apply FV on a large scale." I guess they might've said just that. So they did formal verification on the FPU and instruction decoding units. 22:01:57 It also speaks of their chip simulation thing; "several thousand systems -- averaging 5-6 billion cycles per week" => about 9 kHz execution speed. 22:05:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:08:28 -!- whtspc_ has joined. 22:09:01 http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/cvs-libraries/2009-June/010890.html 22:09:03 Hot. 22:09:39 Handle I/O does seem a bit limited 22:09:58 Gracenotes: No more utf8-strings need! 22:10:09 no sir! 22:10:40 Gracenotes: wat 22:10:45 I'm going out with mah family tonight :D going to a Chinese place with sushi 22:10:56 ew sushi. 22:11:27 it's good sushi 22:11:37 u hav porblem with sushi :o 22:11:44 ya 22:14:08 sushi is doubleplusgood 22:18:24 -!- Azstal has joined. 22:27:06 -!- Asztal_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:27:35 brb. 22:28:57 -!- whtspc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:33:19 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 22:41:09 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:41:29 -!- whtspc_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 22:45:03 -!- MizardX- has joined. 22:48:06 -!- BeholdMyGlory has left (?). 22:49:48 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 22:49:58 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 22:51:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 22:51:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:51:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 22:58:42 bacq. 22:58:45 -!- nooga has joined. 22:59:00 hei hei 23:01:33 hi 23:02:32 any ground breaking news? 23:03:06 or stupid but amusing ideas? 23:03:14 nope 23:03:18 well 23:03:20 VHDL to WireWorld. 23:03:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHDL; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireworld 23:03:57 yep 23:04:05 reduced, tarpitty vhdl ofc 23:04:05 i coded several optimal ww 23:04:12 ah cool 23:05:22 also i tried to generate gates in ww using genetic algorithms 23:06:04 failed ofc 23:06:09 but it would be amusing 23:06:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:27:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:30:34 -!- coppro has joined. 23:33:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:43:16 oh\ 23:43:26 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:57:23 -!- M0ny has quit.