00:29:53 -!- fungot has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:30:27 -!- fungot has joined. 00:54:34 -!- estoppel has changed nick to ehird. 02:13:12 -!- inurinternet has joined. 02:31:47 Now I have a kitty AND a wearable computer. 02:38:02 Aren't you just a budding evil genius? 02:39:03 Evil geniuses have evil cats. Tia is just neutral. 02:39:16 You have started down the road. 02:39:25 * pikhq pets kitty. 02:39:35 chaotic neutral, yessir 02:39:52 oerjan: Like all cats. 02:40:02 Emphasis on the chaos. 02:40:18 mhm 02:41:12 GregorR: what you should look out for is kick the dog moments. which probably cats don't help avoid 03:25:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 04:23:09 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 04:33:42 -!- MizardX has joined. 05:00:52 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:02:08 -!- MizardX has joined. 05:04:37 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 05:15:40 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 05:16:47 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 05:21:59 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:44:36 it seems that my server got down just because bind is (mistakenly) shut down. :( all is fine now. sorry for inconvenience. 06:01:54 -!- calamari has joined. 06:02:28 -!- adu has joined. 06:08:42 -!- adu_ has joined. 06:08:51 -!- adu_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:17:29 http://www.prq.se/?p=colo&intl=1 06:17:38 100 megabits for $2000/month 06:17:40 is that a lot? 06:29:26 -!- adu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:34:15 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:35:24 By about 50x :P 06:36:05 Oh. Server included. Then I don't know. 06:36:34 server's not included 06:36:38 just 4u of rackspace 06:38:38 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 06:39:01 It's far out of my price range anyhow. 06:40:40 http://localhost/masterpiecemachine/autocompose.php // YAY ITS BAD 06:40:49 localhost? 06:40:54 lawl 06:41:01 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/autocompose.php // YAY ITS BAD 06:47:12 php now has goto. D: 06:47:49 yay! 06:48:56 psygnisfive: lol, that made into php 5.3? 06:49:02 yep! 06:50:02 php was originally messy, but now it's becoming messier XD 06:55:16 -!- warrie has set topic: Deep European German Christian German Mole Christian Good Machine Christian Scottish Talk Machine Christian Machine Amusing Without Sad | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 06:55:36 what 06:57:33 "Deep" means "hello", "European" means "all", "German" means "you", "Christian" means ";", "Mole" means "is/does what", "Good" means "good", "Machine" means "I", "Scottish" means "that which I demand that you be", "Talk" means "talk", "Amusing" means "amusing", "Without" means "without", and "Sad" means "sad". 06:58:01 So it's "Hi y'all; how are you; I'm fine; talk to me; I'm bored". 06:58:17 -!- psygnisfive has set topic: No. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 06:58:34 "No." means "shut the fuck up" 06:58:45 So it's "shut the fuck up" 06:58:53 Mmkz. 07:04:59 MizardX: it's a lot of fucking bandwidth 07:05:29 I have 100 mbit uncapped... for 1/50th of the price. 07:05:53 MizardX: try to push 30 terabyte/month through it and get back to me 07:09:30 also, where the hell do you live 07:10:06 Sweden. 07:10:35 i get 1.5 mbit 07:10:58 on a good day 07:14:18 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:14:47 I can get up to maybe 8-9 mb/s with 2-4 torrents running. But then I can't watch any HD movies without it getting out of sync. 07:15:00 is that bits or bytes? 07:15:09 megabytes/sec 07:15:11 god 07:15:53 i can expect a torrent to download at about 120 kilobytes/second 07:17:17 BACK IN MY DAY WE HAD 200 BAUD MODEMS, AND WE WERE HAPPY TO HAVE EM 07:18:27 baud... is that bits/second? 07:19:13 It's the olde spelling of "bad" 07:19:25 GET IT LAWL 07:19:26 Ah. pulses/second. 07:19:54 * MizardX ignores the pun 07:22:04 i wonder if it's too late to start a movie 07:24:10 The World Wide Web needs no bandwidth. 07:24:26 And by "no bandwidth", I mean under a kilobyte per second. 07:24:58 And by "the World Wide Web", I mean hand-written HTML. 07:25:19 hand-written HTML and bunches of CSS. 07:28:20 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:42:52 As long as it's hand-written CSS. 07:48:03 newlines forbidden 07:55:47 They're fine as long as they're hand-typed. 07:57:29 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:28:52 -!- lereah_ has joined. 08:53:48 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:04:34 -!- jix_ has joined. 09:10:52 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:36:58 -!- lereah_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:39:22 i wonder if it would be possible to treat all functions like continuations or callbacks or something... 09:39:54 where like 09:40:51 a; x = f(); b is equivalent to a; f(x -> b) 09:40:56 where x -> b is the callback function 09:41:45 so you wouldn't ever get hangs on long functions ... 09:42:13 That sounds like writing code in continuation-passing style. 09:42:19 sort of, yeah. 09:42:38 i mean, i use callbacks a lot in JS, right 09:42:53 we use them a lot of ajax queries 09:43:01 because you dont want your browser to lock on a lock query 09:43:05 so you do it asynchronously 09:43:27 the browser just calls the callback whenever the http request returns 09:43:41 so you dont lock the browser waiting for the server to respond 09:43:46 and the page doesnt lock either 09:44:00 so i figure, why not do that for all function calls, period 09:44:27 so that a sequence of function calls is like multiple nested callbacks 09:45:15 and because its all callback based, you can spin off the things into threads relatively easily 09:45:38 i mean, then you get concurrency issues, granted, so itd work ideally in functional languages, but 09:46:36 The Scheme interpreter I wrote in Prolog was written in CPS, since it made implementing call/cc so trivial. 09:46:50 aha. 09:47:03 im not sure if its technically cps, nor do i know how you CODE in cps, so... 09:48:01 hm, you're right, it is CPS i think 09:48:21 hm. 09:49:20 If your functions never return, just call a provided "continuation", then I think it is CPS. Or some sort of mixture, anyway; when writing something like JavaScript, I don't think you want to replace all + operators with a call to "function add(a, b, k) { k(a + b); }". 09:49:39 well, no, 09:49:51 you probably wouldnt want to do THAT, because + is a primitive 09:50:12 -!- tombom has joined. 09:50:17 but more importantly, + is trivial, and should never hang ever. 09:51:53 yeah, i think you're right, it is cps. 09:52:11 so it might be useful, in general, to just have cps built in to all function calls 09:54:02 I think I saw something done in JavaScript that required a call in the style of "setTimeOut(function(){ ... }, 0);" every now and then to avoid getting huge call stacks; I guess JavaScript/ECMAScript environments might not bother with tail-call optimizations. 09:54:17 yeah, thats a typical callback 09:54:57 i mean, we dont code like that much, its just a typical example of a callback 11:13:38 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:00:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:01:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:29:46 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 12:49:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:50:41 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:29:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:30:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:46:34 -!- Corun has joined. 14:46:05 -!- Judofyr has joined. 14:57:09 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:14:01 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 15:18:59 -!- Corun has quit. 15:24:27 -!- Corun has joined. 15:33:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:40:17 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:03:06 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:14:21 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:31:58 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 16:49:30 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 16:54:09 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:54:31 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 17:02:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:03:33 -!- ineiros has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:11:29 -!- ineiros has joined. 17:13:31 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 17:22:03 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 17:24:32 -!- inurinternet has quit. 17:26:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:26:52 My are we negative today 17:29:00 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr. 17:34:49 so i figure, why not do that for all function calls, period 17:35:03 Ew, periods 17:35:17 * pikhq looks forward to doing continuations in C++. 17:35:18 apparently there have been functional languages experimenting with parallelizing absolutely everything 17:35:23 ... Via continuation-passing style code. 17:35:39 the problem is the overhead absolutely kills any performance gain when you do it on small chunks 17:39:51 and finding out what is worth parallelizing is a hard problem 17:44:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:59:15 -!- inurinternet has joined. 18:03:01 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:18:54 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:25:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:28:53 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:33:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:33:48 ehird, new Fine Structure is up 18:56:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:00:19 eek, that global notice is a bit scary 19:00:27 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_. 19:00:34 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 19:01:07 * oerjan isn't sure whether that was necessary but did so anyway 19:02:05 -!- olsner has joined. 19:02:14 lament: are you a registered contact for this channel? 19:06:41 who is a contact for this channel anyway? channel info only lists andreou, who certainly disappeared years ago? 19:07:20 oh he's not 19:07:27 good, then we should be safe 19:08:00 but we really should have a contact who is actually a channel regular... 19:10:40 ehird: warrie: with all your nicknames you probably should take care: "Grouped alternate nicknames which are considered to be expired will be dropped." 19:13:32 bf is interestingly simple. 19:15:22 oerjan: We should probably get control of the channel transferred to someone who's actually here. 19:16:02 lament and fizzie are on the access list, at least, does that count? 19:16:13 ais523: i have no idea 19:16:15 besides, if the channel /is/ dropped, an op could get it back again 19:16:26 maybe we should ask lament/fizzie to leave their op powers on permanently just in case 19:16:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 19:17:23 I can stay like this until Freenode's ethnic purge or whatever is done, if it makes any sense. 19:17:25 Like that. 19:17:59 whats going on with freenode and the channel now? 19:18:17 oh 19:18:23 "And we can only tell that your channel is in use if some user in your access list, identified to NickServ, periodically joins the channel." 19:18:42 Well, that should be happening rather regularly. 19:18:48 ok so fizzie and lament being here is what counts 19:19:09 and andreou being the founder probably doesn't matter 19:19:33 Incidentally, "chanserv info #esoteric" for me lists "Founder: andreou" and "Successor: fizzie", but I have no clue what that latter title means. It's a weird network. 19:20:01 Might mean that you're supposed to take over for andreou? 19:20:06 So... Why haven't you? :P 19:20:07 fizzie: for me, only andreou is shown 19:20:27 I assume some sort of "there can be only one" swordfight is involved. 19:20:50 * oerjan suggests bfjoust ;D 19:23:08 afk 19:23:50 fizzie: successor automatically becomes founder if the founder goes permanently missing for some reason 19:24:01 so an active successor is enough to keep a channel alive 19:24:53 oerjan: laaaaaaaaaaawl 19:25:05 oerjan: Drag andreou out of eso-retirement for bfjoust :P 19:30:05 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/autocompose.php // enjoy the awful! 19:34:59 enjoy the offal! 19:40:33 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 19:47:12 -!- Slereah has quit. 19:50:04 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:57:15 GregorR, what 19:57:16 ? 19:58:22 ... enjoy the awful? 19:58:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus"). 19:59:30 * Sgeo needs a new MIDI player. Suggestions? 19:59:37 Platform? 19:59:42 WinXP 19:59:53 Sorry, can't help ya. 20:00:04 CoLinux. 20:00:25 pikhq: That's spectacularly unhelpful since generally MIDI is more difficult in Linux than Windows :P 20:00:39 Unless you care about the quality of the instruments, but you shouldn't for autocomposer :P 20:01:15 -!- tetha has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:01:24 -!- tetha has joined. 20:01:42 you can just install timidity 20:01:58 which converts MIDI into other things, and can also play it 20:02:05 but I don't know if that's Linux-only 20:02:10 I hate being helpful. 20:02:30 pikhq, too bad, you helped my self-esteem the other day 20:02:40 -!- tombom has joined. 20:02:45 * pikhq hits undo 20:03:13 :( 20:05:44 lawl 20:06:01 So, I assume nobody's actually listening to the output of the autocomposer? :P 20:06:16 * pikhq lacks MIDI 20:06:47 GregorR-L, too lazy to load up Yahoo Jukebox at this minute 20:06:51 But I downloaded something 20:06:53 So 20:07:10 Want me to listen? 20:07:28 * Sgeo made a random generator thing for tonematrix 20:07:28 I don't care really, it was more to bother people :P 20:07:32 It's not actually good :P 20:07:40 It's not entirely random. 20:08:17 Ok, it's not loading 20:08:33 AH, here it is 20:09:34 It's not bad as much as it is boring, tbh 20:09:53 http://lab.andre-michelle.com/tonematrix http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/rnd_tonematrix.htm 20:10:08 Maybe I was just too impatient considering that I wanted to show what I just linked to 20:11:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:12:20 tonematrix is fun 20:16:54 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 20:18:49 psygnisfive, try my generator thing? 20:18:54 ?? 20:19:00 oh, on the right 20:19:02 looking now 20:19:16 wossit do 20:19:24 Press a button 20:19:31 Like Single tone 20:19:32 yah 20:19:33 i get numbers 20:19:39 Copy those numbers into tonematrix 20:19:54 how? 20:20:06 Copy into your clipboard, right-click on Tonematrix and click paste 20:20:17 secret! 20:22:01 <3 20:22:09 full makes a not so pretty 20:22:14 but the rest are always pretty it seems 20:23:00 psygnisfive, change the number to something to make Polyphonic make that number of tones in a column (or sometimes less) 20:23:02 GregorR-L: Make it a genetic algorithm. 20:23:17 So you can have algorithmic algorythms. 20:23:27 pikhq: I thought about it, but that'd be impossible since the fitness function is "sounds good" :P 20:23:44 Well, you could use people as the fitness function. 20:23:49 GregorR-L, have people vote on which sounds better 20:23:51 (note: slow) 20:59:15 http://pastie.org/private/gs6p43htyhdyg7nk1vvw that was hellish, but there is malbolge interpreter in migol now. (warning: not yet final) 21:04:14 well, i should test with reference interpreter, but it's... a kind of slow. 21:04:30 lifthrasiir: Cool! 21:04:32 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:04:38 No, the reference interpreter sucks. 21:04:47 Whoever wrote it should be executed. 21:05:08 MigoMipo: suicide?! 21:05:14 :P 21:06:16 anyway i made the program ignore null byte for compatibility. given much time, reference interpreter should start printing "99 bottles..." :p 21:07:03 I could fix a non-null-terminating version. 21:09:42 I still like my miGoL :( 21:09:47 But, nice job 21:10:28 hmm, it silently terminates after 5 minutes. :S 21:11:23 My interpreter or yours? 21:13:28 reference one. 21:13:39 i'll take a look at it... 21:14:47 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 21:14:55 If it works in theory but not in the reference interpreter, it is the interpreter's fault. 21:15:46 I found the line 2<[2]<$+300<[[2]] in the program, why not 2<$+300<[[2]] ? 21:15:47 Anyone ever say in a spec that if the ref. interpreter and spec conflict, the interpreter's correct? 21:16:42 Depends on the situation. 21:17:28 MigoMipo: you're right, that can be simplified. it doesn't change the meaning though. 21:18:13 (i copied that statement from other line, namely 1<[2]<$+300<[[1]]) 21:18:52 Increase with 300 and store the row the same var is currently pointing at 21:18:56 Scary 21:18:57 Uh 21:19:03 s/row/value/ 21:19:30 FireFly: that's D register in malbolge. :p 21:19:40 2<$+300<[[2]] translates into D = mem[D]. 21:20:13 Oki 21:20:21 I've never looked into malbolge 21:20:27 I don't know if I want to :P 21:20:47 05:17 bsmntbombdood: http://www.prq.se/?p=colo&intl=1 21:20:48 05:17 bsmntbombdood: 100 megabits for $2000/month 21:20:48 05:17 bsmntbombdood: is that a lot? 21:20:51 that is ridiculously expensive 21:21:03 100 mbit internet is like $50-$70/mo in civilized countries 21:21:06 of coures without the 4u 21:21:12 but 4u for ~$2000? 21:21:13 ridiculous 21:21:26 05:41 GregorR: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/autocompose.php // YAY ITS BAD 21:21:29 that's beautiful 21:21:31 i found that memory initialization is very slow in the java version (~5min), but it prints wrong value for hello world program. 21:21:32 wait why is fizzie an op 21:21:40 * lifthrasiir turns on debugging code 21:21:53 but the 30tb/mo is nic 21:21:53 e 21:21:59 06:10 MizardX: Sweden. 21:22:00 oh? 21:22:05 guess i wanna move there for awesome internet 21:23:42 oh 21:23:46 freenode's holocaust 21:23:48 fuck freenode 21:23:51 we should move to oftc 21:24:12 18:25 GregorR-L: oerjan: Drag andreou out of eso-retirement for bfjoust :P 21:24:14 andreou was here recently. 21:24:29 18:59 Sgeo needs a new MIDI player. Suggestions? 21:24:32 buy an mt-32 synthesizer 21:24:34 i have one :) 21:24:38 better than general midi! 21:24:44 ehird: That explains why autocomposer sounds "beautiful" :P 21:24:45 bad digital converter hiss! 21:26:08 20:15 Sgeo: Anyone ever say in a spec that if the ref. interpreter and spec conflict, the interpreter's correct? 21:26:09 malbolge 21:26:12 iirc 21:26:26 GregorR-L: what, mt-32? 21:26:32 GregorR-L: no, I'm not using it atm; it's a pain to wire up 21:26:37 ehird: ODF? 21:26:40 :P 21:26:47 i just have a great love of bad music 21:26:56 pikhq: :P 21:27:03 ehird: Well then you should be joining us in writing Masterpieces! 21:27:09 MizardX: your hostname is cloaked. who is your isp? 21:27:18 GregorR-L: afraid I have no midi composer software 21:27:25 Pff 21:27:33 i do have an m-audio 49 key midi keyboard and an mt-32, so 2/3 at least 21:27:40 wait 21:27:42 2/4 21:27:45 i also lack musical talent. 21:28:05 Sgeo: "8192,8,8,4,64,32768,32768,2048,16,4096,16384,32768,64,16384,64,256" is pretty 21:28:41 Nice 21:28:53 from your random generator :P 21:29:04 it's ever so slightly out of sync 21:29:16 or at least appears that way at first 21:30:03 btw 21:30:22 you guys know that guy who hanged himself? 21:30:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:30:31 not due to the 'sploits, but claimed as by stupid media 21:30:33 anyway 21:30:41 i found his blog. he was a total jerk. 21:30:44 for instance 21:30:54 [[The entire fucking knowledge of the universe penetrated, permeated, and pervaded my mind, and I became omniscient. You can say that I have indeed seen god, and yes, he is a fucking idiot.]] 21:31:06 [[I drive a brand new benz, and currently my sole aim is to make money. ]] 21:31:14 [[I have always been 3.14 times bigger than God. ]] 21:31:23 [[sporting a tattoo that says ‘God is a fucking idiot’, ]] 21:31:34 [[“God loves you, you know”. One of them said. 21:31:34 “That’s irrelevant. I am going to kill god”.]] 21:31:40 later 21:31:42 [[“Hehe. I know everything. I have seen the entire fucking universe. I am actually omniscient. I have read the entire Bible. I have a new theory that all successful religions are based on legitimatizing rape”. ]] 21:32:05 i couldn't act more smug and shit-faced if I tried 21:32:16 i thought wolfram's ego was bad... 21:32:31 http://ligesh.com/, http://ligesh.com/about/ 21:32:40 oh also [[I am the most interesting person on this godforsaken planet of the apes.]] 21:33:13 I like the way "I have read the entire Bible" is marked there as being something impressive 21:33:20 yep... 21:33:21 I think even normal people could manage that 21:33:36 it's not like it's massively long, or deliberately hard to read 21:33:45 [[I am a wikilink]] 21:33:47 ais523: it does contain some rather vile stuff, though 21:33:49 but yeah 21:33:50 well, reading the original would be more impressive 21:33:57 heh 21:34:12 ais523: Hbrw: Jst dd vwls. 21:34:48 dd if=vowels of=/dev/null 21:35:31 that doesn't erase vowels 21:37:07 tre 21:37:09 Uh 21:37:09 tr 21:37:54 {ehird} MizardX: your hostname is cloaked. who is your isp? 21:38:13 Riksnet 21:38:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCWu98GRk-E reminds me of Davies and Kosogorin in Fine Structure 21:38:41 MizardX: fibre optic i assume? 21:39:13 Ethernet into the apartment. I don't know how it's connected to the house though. 21:39:17 ehird, are you catching up in Fine Structure? 21:39:27 Sgeo: i have only read one or two of it. 21:39:33 i will wait until it is done, i suppose 21:39:45 MizardX: actual ethernet internet? interesting 21:39:52 ais523: do any isps actually do that? since you know AS and stuff. 21:40:02 ehird, what if I spoil the ending for you at that time? >:D 21:40:17 Sgeo: then I'll kill you :P 21:40:47 At some point I think they use fibers. They wouldn't be able to handle all the traffic otherwise. 21:41:03 MizardX: those riksnet people seem to do deals with landlords and stuff instead of direct to consumer 21:41:07 well "Do not pay to bury another cable. Join together with your neighbors and get group discounts on broadband." 21:41:15 a rather odd way of running an isp 21:41:36 MigoMipo: okay, #<[9]<$+2 was problematic: my interpreter changes program counter after whole statement is executed, but yours immediately stops executing current statement when #<[9] is executed. 21:41:58 i guess the latter is the correct behavior...? 21:42:24 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 21:42:29 The most of the city is connected in one network, where each client can choose between different ISPs. 21:43:09 Just a few clicks and you can change ISP. 21:43:10 The base of Riksnets service offering consists of a high speed connection via fiber network to the local area or premise. The connection is done with a gigabit link, and each dwelling, up to 100Mbit depending on the equipment in its own network. 21:43:13 fibre then 21:43:15 MizardX: that's weird 21:43:19 MizardX: what city is this? 21:43:23 Luleå 21:43:39 a city at the coast of in northern Sweden with 45,467 inhabitants 21:43:41 that's a small city 21:43:42 :P 21:45:07 The cost per connection, and months can vary greatly depending on, among other communities the size, cost of access to local stadsdelsnät and distance from the nearest node. 21:45:07 Normally, however, a Riksnetkund previously had a normal ADSL connection expect to halve their monthly fee and receive 10 times as high capacity. 21:45:12 that's just so not-vague 21:46:49 0.5 Mbit ADSL and 10/100 mbit ethernet/fiber is almost in the same price-range. ADSL has wider coverage but lower speed. 21:47:15 0.5/1.0 maybe 21:47:24 i pay for 8mbit adsl and get 2-6mbit 21:47:33 most often 500kbps 21:47:52 = 4mbit 21:48:03 MizardX: no symmetrical 100/100 though? :-) 21:48:15 unfortunately the high-speeders tend to lack technical prowess eg ipv6 and custom reverse dns 21:48:35 Ta emot: 11.09Mbit/sek 21:48:35 I meant 10mbit or 100mbit, not 10 up/100 down. 21:48:39 ah 21:48:39 Quite nice 21:48:43 ...but it still prints out wrong result! 21:48:46 MizardX: so the 100 is symmetrical? 21:48:51 yes 21:49:07 MizardX: lucky ou 21:49:08 you 21:49:50 Most ethernet/fiber connections are symmetrical. ADSL 0.5/1.0/8/24 is another story. 21:50:06 registers are correct, maybe the memory problem. but anyway it's time to go sleep... :p 21:50:24 There was some sort of project to build a similar "city-district network" (with fibre, in which ISPs could then provide Internet connectivity relatively cheaply) in the place I used to live in few (7?) years ago. I'm not sure if anything came out of it. 21:50:41 uk/us internet is really bullshit 21:50:51 :P 21:50:52 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 21:50:55 the only fibre provider is Virgin, they offer up to 50mbit, but jesus, their contract 21:51:03 they literally say that annoying another internet user is prohibited 21:51:07 really. 21:51:08 also, they require Windows 21:51:14 their whole tos is just ridiculous 21:51:20 but looking carefully, it's a requirement for at least one Windows computer 21:51:23 as opposed to nothing but Windows 21:51:27 you can't do anything other than check your email and respond in a courteous manner 21:51:38 NOBODY BUYS 50MBIT INTERNET APART FROM FOR ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS! 21:51:45 doesn't "require windows" usually mean "our software only supports windows but you can get it to work on linux through google" 21:51:50 well, maybe an archive.org junky 21:51:51 junki 21:51:52 e 21:52:01 comex: yes, in this case 21:52:02 bogon's ToS is nice 21:52:16 "You are not allowed to do anything illegal. If we are told you are doing something illegal, we'll cut you off." 21:52:23 Well, uh, the website of the organization doing the "local-ish area networking" thing seems to have morphed into a portal site completely in Russian (at least with the cyrillic alphabet) so I'm guessing they're not really in business any longer. 21:52:24 *bogons' 21:52:26 what if the person who told you that was lying? 21:52:39 ais523: i was summarising 21:52:44 http://www.bogons.net/aup.shtml 21:52:59 it still lists too many individual violations for my liking 21:53:18 ehird, remember when I spoiled http://qntm.org/?failure for you? Do you still remember the spoiler? 21:53:31 Sgeo: Something about people dying in some way. 21:53:32 Melting perhaps? 21:53:34 (Yes, it's FS, so don't read it now if you want to save FS) 21:53:43 I didn't even specify how 21:53:48 The terms-of-service for most ISPs around here are rather ugly too. For one thing, a majority of them have some sort of "you are not allowed to have a server program connected to our network" thing. 21:54:04 Do you want me to? 21:54:10 virgin let you have servers if you meet N where N tends to infinity conditions 21:54:12 Sgeo: no 21:54:42 Do you read ROT13'd text as though it weren't ROT13'd? 21:55:01 no, I get my web browser to decode it 21:55:04 if an isp existed offering a symmetrical 100mbit connection, with a terms of use consisting of "illegal stuff is prohibited", and that did stuff like ipv6 & custom reverse dns... 21:55:09 Gurl nyy qvr bs qrulqengvba. 21:55:13 ^^^SPOILERS 21:55:17 i'd leave home and fly there overnight :P 21:55:21 Sgeo: What the fuck is your problem? 21:55:30 ehird, just don't decode it 21:55:43 ehird: HEY ELLIOTT WANT A SPOILER No. REAAALLLLLLLLLLY? I said no. Gurl nyy qvr bs qrulqengvba LOLOLOLOLOLO 21:55:48 How obnoxious. 21:58:11 fizzie: So, not allowed to have any daemons? 21:58:55 Sgeo: Actually, I can't think of a justification other than attempting to get me to decode it out of curiosity and thus re-spoiling. 21:59:04 So I hereby deem you a royal jerk. 21:59:54 If I really wanted to spoil you, I would have either not mentioned that it was a spoiler, or spoiled in plaintext 22:00:12 pikhq: It's not like there are any definitions of terms there, so it's anyone's guess as to what constitutes a "server". 22:00:16 So you bothered me about whether I wanted a spoiler or not and then said it anyway... why exactly? 22:00:47 I don't know. Bored silliness. 22:04:02 fizzie: Let's say you run an outbound VPN and have servers over that. :P 22:04:03 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 22:04:48 [Translated] Can I set up my own server? Yes. You can set up a server as long as it is not for commercial activities. 22:05:24 MizardX: That's ridiculous. 22:05:29 That's utterly ridiculous. 22:08:28 I translated this on-#esoteric earlier, but one ISP here ("Elisa") has the following [rough translation trying to keep the text style and confusedness intact] about servers: you are not allowed "to use the network service to provide services for broadband- or internet-service users by placing server equipment or software into the data communication link". 22:09:09 heh 22:09:24 managers write it 22:10:06 atrapado: no, managers tell lawyers to write it 22:11:05 and neither one knows what they are doing 22:11:58 lifthrasiir: I believe that the first statement is correct. 22:12:12 atrapado: lawyers absolutely know what they're doing. 22:12:17 It should do the entire operation before branching. 22:12:24 I think. 22:13:40 That last part especially is written so that the Finnish version sounds very much like they're talking about literally taking some piece of soft- or hardware and somehow inserting it into some sort of reified physical manifestation of the connection you're buying. They *could* just as easily speak of connecting those things to the link or something so that it made sense, but no; you insert things into it. 22:13:48 I guess it's the tube, and you put stuff in it. 22:14:06 one tube, or a series? 22:14:28 One tube for the customer; presumably it connects to a series of. 22:14:28 I think that would ban a router that offers DNS caching, but not an actual server. 22:14:37 ehird, i do not know 22:14:50 atrapado: you don't know what? 22:15:06 whether lawyers know what they are doing 22:16:31 atrapado: what sort of mad alternate universe do you live in 22:16:39 i think what you mean to say is "i don't like lawyers". 22:17:09 haha 22:17:28 ehird, i am debugging the world and looking for a guilty 22:17:46 atrapado: erm, your grammar seems very guilty 22:19:14 ehird, yes, can you decapitate it ? 22:19:31 atrapado: i think it already has been 22:21:14 ehird, headless grammar it is then 22:21:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:21:34 headless grammar? o.o 22:22:05 yes 22:22:11 you could totally theorizify that 22:22:25 whats a headless grammar 22:23:00 maybe a grammar without a start symbol 22:23:02 a grammar that got decapitated 22:23:16 a grammar without a start symbol? 22:23:23 you mean where any non-terminal is a valid start symbol? 22:23:54 with several start symbols 22:24:04 -!- Judofyr has joined. 22:24:07 so like 22:24:34 if your grammar is (R, T, N, S) 22:24:46 instead of S ∈ N 22:24:50 its S ⊆ N? 22:24:59 let's go with it 22:25:03 why not 22:25:15 if thats what you mean, then you have not changed a thing 22:25:24 no, i meant S = a string of more than one non terminal 22:25:34 i dont follow 22:26:11 you do not start with S, you start with, say AB 22:26:15 oh. ok. 22:26:22 well then you still are starting with S. 22:26:26 i mean 22:26:30 consider this, right 22:26:38 yes, i understand 22:27:04 if your grammar is (R, T, N, AB), thats the same as (R + {S -> AB}, T, N + {S}, S) 22:27:21 it might be equivalent, but it is not the same 22:27:33 its not the same in form, no 22:27:41 psygnisfive: why do linguists just have long tuples instead of naming shit? :D 22:27:48 but you really get no benefit from this 22:27:49 uh.. 22:27:51 long tuples? 22:28:04 G = (R, T, N, S) is maths, ehird, not linguistics 22:28:08 "oh this syntactical monomorphonomy is (A,GT,R+Z->Y,{F},X,QUR,D)" 22:28:09 psygnisfive: i know 22:28:24 some lingustics is, since chomsky defined something there 22:28:39 well yes, chomsky did some math for the earliest parts of formal language theory 22:28:56 but how is that a long tuple? 22:29:00 its a lot shorter than saying, like 22:29:13 "your rules include S -> AB, you have a new non-terminal S, and S is the start symbol) 22:29:24 psygnisfive: vs "morpho A, syntactic transform GT, equivalence relation R+Z->Y" 22:29:30 you could even abbreviate them! 22:29:38 mph A, st GT, eqr R+Z->Y 22:29:39 :-P 22:29:40 sure 22:29:54 you could abbreviate them even more by omitting the name and understanding the position is relevant 22:30:02 A, GT, R+Z->Y 22:30:09 and innat a tuple. 22:30:16 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:30:20 anyway. 22:30:25 22:29 psygnisfive: you could abbreviate them even more by omitting the name and understanding the position is relevant 22:30:27 yes but 22:30:37 "element 4" meaningfulness <<<<<<< "eqr" meaningfulness 22:30:56 psygnisfive: it's like saying variables in a function are referred to by the number of their occurance 22:31:03 let 3 let $1 + 2 let $1+$2 22:31:05 except element 4 is never said? 22:31:14 anyway 22:31:14 → let a=3 let b=a+2 let c=a+b 22:31:28 except i did that, ehird. 22:31:41 G = (R, T, N, S) 22:31:49 fine. :P 22:32:15 then (R + {S -> AB}, ...) 22:32:28 NE WAYS 22:32:37 atrapado: i dont see what youre getting from this "headlessness" 22:32:57 the same you are getting with your headness 22:33:03 from * 22:33:04 what? 22:33:12 psygnisfive: he didn't actually invent this any more than on the spot... 22:33:18 22:17 atrapado: ehird, i am debugging the world and looking for a guilty 22:33:18 22:17 ehird: atrapado: erm, your grammar seems very guilty 22:33:20 22:19 atrapado: ehird, yes, can you decapitate it ? 22:33:22 22:19 ehird: atrapado: i think it already has been 22:33:23 22:21 atrapado: ehird, headless grammar it is then 22:33:45 well ok then :P 22:35:15 it would be funny defined that way 22:35:37 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 22:35:41 what? 22:36:12 GregorR: how heavy is your wearable computer? 22:36:23 i guess it's low-spec; even a heatsink would likely be prohibitive as far as comfort goes 22:37:01 how would you get 'a' from 'AB' ? 22:37:29 ehird: I'd imagine it is, at best, comparable to an EeePC. 22:37:42 atrapado: what do you mean? 22:37:53 pikhq: i'd go for an embedded ARM type set up 22:38:02 pikhq: so you can use a really tiny motherboard, no heatsink or anything needed 22:38:16 and a decent desktop arm is probably better than a low-end x86 22:38:21 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:38:37 wearable computing is just brain implants for wussies :) 22:38:54 psygnisfive, if you start with nonterminals 'AB', what grammar do you need so that 'a' is in the grammar ? 22:39:03 'a' terminal 22:39:07 A -> a, B -> ε 22:39:15 yeah ! 22:39:19 assuming a CFG-with-epsilons 22:39:23 every grammar has epsilons ? 22:39:25 yeah 22:39:31 can have * 22:39:40 no, actually 22:39:54 ehird: Idonno, maybe 2 lbs all said. 22:40:02 if your language does not contain the empty string, then CSLs do not require epsilon rules. 22:40:17 Remember! When turning left onto a one-way street, the right lane is the wrong lane! 22:40:24 GregorR: ugh, I'd hate to carry around 0.9kg around 22:40:31 and if your language DOES contain the empty string 22:40:33 i mean it's light, sure 22:40:35 but still a pain 22:40:40 GregorR: what's the specs like 22:40:47 !google beagleboard 22:40:48 http://google.com/search?q=beagleboard 22:40:50 —and I mean the specifications, not the spectacles— 22:40:51 then you can write a CSG where the only epsilon rule is S -> ε 22:41:00 and all other rules are strictly epsilon-free 22:41:02 yes, psygnisfive 22:41:15 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Beagle_Board_big.jpg 22:41:20 GregorR: some of those heatsinks look a bit heavy 22:41:29 GregorR: how do you interact with it? 22:41:33 so no, not every grammar has epsilons. only grammars for languages with the empty string have epsilons. 22:41:41 ............... the BB has no heatsinks. 22:41:50 GregorR: dude, yes it does 22:41:51 look at it 22:41:52 Also, that 3"x3" 22:41:58 I know 22:42:02 but it definitely has heatsinks 22:42:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:42:15 anyway, what's the input method 22:42:20 * GregorR wonders which component ehird thinks is a heatsink ... 22:42:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 22:42:29 Ring-mounted mouse and a tiny bluetooth keyboard. 22:42:34 maybe i'm looking wrong :P 22:42:39 GregorR: oh, that's bullshit 22:42:40 GregorR: Damn. 22:42:45 That's pretty awesome. 22:42:47 psygnisfive, do you know how many grammars there are ? 22:42:51 who the fuck wants to use shitty mice/keyboards on the go 22:42:53 what do you mean? 22:43:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:43:05 ehird: You're another one of those "IT'S NOT A WEARABLE IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN IMPOSSIBLE-TO-LEARN CHORDER" retards? 22:43:12 atrapado: Approximately \infty 22:43:15 Erm. 22:43:21 \infnty? 22:43:22 GregorR: get some gloves/mittens with half a keyboard in the palm, like those Kinesis keyboards 22:43:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:43:29 Erm. MY TEX FOO SUCKS. 22:43:30 and have the right one have two extra keys for left/right click 22:43:33 ehird: That sounds unbearably awkward ... 22:43:40 exactly the same number as the number of natural numbers 22:43:45 GregorR: I'd call a chording keyboard worth it. 22:43:45 pikhq: if you mean how many grammars, period, then yes, an infinite number. 22:43:50 i think 22:43:53 GregorR: not too much, but think of the advantages 22:43:56 But to each his own. 22:43:57 you can just keep walking while typing and mousing 22:44:01 for moving the mouse... 22:44:08 I can walk and mouse anyway. 22:44:11 infact, for any given language there are an infinite number of grammars for that language. 22:44:14 have a button that, when you hold it down, your hand movements move the mouse 22:44:16 And I doubt I could concentrate on walking and typing regardless :P 22:44:25 so you make a fist and move to the top-left of the screen, say. 22:44:28 that'd be kick-ass. 22:44:30 ehird: That Beagleboard there seems to not have heatsinks. It seems to have a few *sockets*. 22:44:40 pikhq: yeah, I looked at it wrong 22:45:07 i would like a wearable computer a lot, but it'd have to do it right 22:45:08 heyyyyyyyy 22:45:10 I just thought! 22:45:16 GregorR: you can get transparent-background oled displays 22:45:22 psygnisfive: very trivially, just add an indirection non-terminal 22:45:23 [well, they're in the "trade show demo" phase] 22:45:23 Yeah, for $$$ 22:45:26 *that's* what you need 22:45:31 seamless integration, beyotch! 22:45:33 This is a "budget" wearable :P 22:45:38 oerjan: for CFGs, sure. 22:45:40 GregorR: got any photos? 22:45:43 it sounds cool regardless 22:45:54 ehird: Not yet. Surprisingly difficult to take full-body photos of oneself :P 22:45:58 GregorR: use a timer 22:46:03 for any given language, i think there is a finite number of minimal CFGs 22:46:06 psygnisfive: general chomsky grammars too, naturally 22:46:09 ehird: That's what I did, but it's not focusing right. 22:46:09 that is, CFGs without useless rules 22:46:11 * pikhq will quite likely have to get a beagle board and make a tiny laptop out of it 22:46:22 for any given CFL, i mean 22:46:23 GregorR: also, budget wearable = a wearable that you can't take around town because you'd look like a freaking dolt 22:46:23 pikhq: That would be a very tiny laptop. 22:46:24 :P 22:46:26 (what I need from a laptop is... SSH) 22:46:31 pikhq: erm 22:46:34 3" laptop? 22:46:39 ehird: I don't care what I look like. 22:46:56 GregorR: The police do, if you have a suspicious, fat pack on you :P 22:46:58 but i think for CSGs and UGs, there are an infinite number of minimal grammars 22:47:00 *KABOOM* 22:47:08 (yeah, it's bullshit; but it happens) 22:47:09 ehird: ... More likely 3" computer with attached keyboard and screen. :P 22:47:14 ehird: Yeah, the West Lafayette police department are brutal X_X 22:47:15 pikhq: so not a laptop 22:47:31 GregorR: A hypothetical IM conversation: 22:47:36 OMFG some police are coming 22:47:38 I could arbitrarily make it into a laptop. 22:47:39 What? 22:47:42 Really 22:47:45 ... 22:47:48 Oh god they've got tasers 22:47:52 What are you doing? 22:47:55 NO GOD NODSkdjgldkh;lg';hkl 22:47:59 ;kk' 22:48:05 Weird that I'd still be typing at that point :P 22:48:10 GregorR: But of course! 22:48:18 And have you suffered police brutality recently? X-P 22:48:22 no :P 22:48:23 pikhq: a better choice for a laptop is either an Intel Atom or a VIA Nano 22:48:31 pikhq: the atom boards have either fans or heatsinks though 22:48:35 a via nano has some kick-ass power 22:48:40 pikhq: it can decode 720p with 6% cpu usage 22:48:47 ehird: Heh. 22:48:54 If it does SSH, it's enough. 22:48:56 and it's one of the smaller board sizes, and doesn't need a heatsink or fan 22:49:06 pikhq: no reason to artificially downsize, though 22:49:19 pikhq: the problem I've had with a homebrew laptop is getting a chassis 22:49:35 psygnisfive: i think it is undecidable whether two CFG give the same language, which makes me somewhat doubt that you can computably reduce to a finite set 22:49:36 that is, they all suck. 22:50:04 im pretty sure its decidable 22:50:32 but regardless of whether or not its decidable is irrelevant to the existence of such a set of grammars. 22:50:45 10"-12" OLED screen, via nano, <=1kg weight 22:50:51 = Wintop. 22:50:58 No, not laptop. Wintop. 22:51:45 but im pretty sure its decidable 22:52:18 psygnisfive: no, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_language#Decidability_properties 22:52:34 ah ok 22:52:51 do you think a recursive language / a decisor is sufficient for almost everyone ? 22:53:00 but that doesnt really matter. 22:53:05 atrapado: what? 22:53:35 it was a rephrase of bill gates' 640 k is enough for everyone 22:53:48 ...it was? 22:53:50 right but what do you mean by that? 22:53:50 that was totally nonobvious 22:54:07 i see 22:54:20 all languages are recursive languages (except finite languages which are useless) 22:54:20 i mean you can do almost any interesting calculation with a decisor 22:54:22 GregorR: [[Please welcome our new administrator, GregorR, who will be taking over as leader of the Wearable Computing Wiki.]] lawl 22:54:28 whats a decisor? 22:54:38 a machine that always halts 22:54:39 ehird: >_> <_< 22:54:45 oh. a DECIDER 22:54:52 GregorR: ONLY NAZIS ADMINISTRATE WEARABLE COMPUTING WIKIS 22:54:56 oh, yes 22:54:56 YOU SHOULD FEEL SHIFTY AND ASHAMED 22:55:33 argh! now i want to make a wearable computer 22:55:37 GregorR: surely, though, it's hard to read text? 22:55:41 small resolution and all 22:55:42 dunno of such machines are sufficient for all purposes. itd depend on whether or not there are some common tasks that require the possibility of non-halting behavior 22:56:05 ehird: I had to increase the font size, so I can't fit a normal 640x480 worth of text, but at the right size it's easy enough to read :P 22:56:12 i mean, REPLs generally are programmed that way, but sufficiently large maximum number of loops would be sufficient for all purposes and still halt 22:56:23 ehird: I wouldn't want to use it as an ebook reader X-P 22:56:35 psygnisfive, think about a desktop, it surely do not need such non-halting 22:56:36 GregorR: but, necessarily it'll be harder to use than even a 15" external display 22:56:40 since it's right against your eyes and low-res... 22:56:56 atrapado: well, no, you just need absurdly long halt times 22:57:06 ehird: The periscope-y thing plays an optical trick such that it doesn't look like it's right against your eye, it looks like it's larger and at some distance. 22:57:15 GregorR: interesting 22:57:21 plus, all real computers are deciders, ignoring IO 22:57:24 GregorR: i'd ask you to take a picture, but that's obviously rather impossible :) 22:57:28 well, no, sorry. 22:57:31 they're just not TC. 22:57:36 GregorR: if i was to make a wearable computer, I'd have to have a super-quick, high-quality camera 22:57:38 -!- Judofyr has quit (No route to host). 22:57:44 yes, they have limited memory and time 22:57:46 because messing with reality would be so much fun... 22:57:52 Inverted world! 22:57:55 :P 22:58:03 but i think that means that all non-terminating behavior is trivial on them 22:58:25 yes, psygnisfive , they would reach a loop always 22:58:43 GregorR: unfortuntaely, budget :( 22:58:57 ehird: There might be good reason to artificially downsize. Consider that a downsized system might have better battery performance. 22:59:13 pikhq: true, but via nano battery life is, iirc, good 22:59:21 pikhq: like >10hr good 22:59:27 (well maybe less if you have it under constant load) 22:59:37 * pikhq wants it running for hours on double-A batteries. :P 22:59:50 pikhq: eh 22:59:54 just charge a lithium battery overnight 23:00:02 wearing it for over 10 hours would suck 23:00:05 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:00:49 "Aimone and Mann succeeded in designing an injection moulded EyeTap suitable for mass production, as shown below: " 23:00:59 GregorR: does that mean they actually inject it into your eye? 23:01:03 http://wearcam.org/italian_design/bests/dsc001bbbb.jpg 23:01:19 ehird: Injection molding is how plastic devices are usually made to roughly the right shape :P 23:01:23 Oh :P 23:01:32 GregorR: Well it looks like it's in the eye >_< 23:01:34 They INJECT it into a MOLD. 23:01:48 ehird: I'm saying 'laptop', not 'wearable computer', though. 23:02:18 pikhq: Okay. The question is, what the fuck are you doing that puts you away from any battery charging ability whatsoever for such long amounts of time? 23:02:41 pikhq: And why do you need your laptop on all this time? 23:02:47 Nothing at all. I just wants it. 23:02:49 As opposed to hybrid suspend, which uses 0 power after a time. 23:03:08 And "laptop on all this time"? I am an IRC addict. :P 23:03:47 (on a more serious note: I suck at remembering to bring chargers for things) 23:03:58 pikhq: So you're going out into the wilderness, where there is no opportunity to charge. And for all this ~13 hours of time, you will be on IRC constantly. 23:04:01 Now, here's my question. 23:04:07 WHY THE FUCK DID YOU GO INTO THE WILDERNESS? :P 23:04:26 s/wilderness/anywhere my computer is not/ 23:04:58 pikhq: Wow, does your state have some sort of electrical socket holocaust going on? 23:05:13 GregorR: does that gen.mid thing change each load? 23:05:15 No, but I suck at remembering to bring chargers. 23:05:42 pikhq: Then you suck at remembering to bring replacement AA batteries... 23:05:46 ehird: Yeah, it's random. 23:05:55 ehird: Also, I'm still fekking around with the software. 23:05:58 pikhq: Nothing's gonna get you >10-15hrs. 23:06:09 GregorR: relink me? 23:06:19 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/autocompose.php 23:06:22 AAs are easier to obtain than chargers. 23:06:25 Now with chords. 23:06:27 Especially for custom hardware. 23:06:35 It's actually nearing being legitimately good. 23:06:39 Though not really :P 23:06:45 pikhq: Just get a generic lithium battery charger 23:07:20 pikhq: Anyway, so you are near a store where you can get AAs, you have been IRCing constantly for 13 hours, and there is no way you could obtain or use a charger. And it is vital that you get your computer running again immediately. 23:07:23 I see. :P 23:07:34 YES. 23:07:36 GregorR: this one has too many stops 23:07:38 :P 23:07:38 rests, etc 23:07:46 ehird: Uhh, it shouldn't have any rests at all. 23:07:49 ehird: It generates no rests. 23:07:59 ehird: It might be an unfortunate result of the random instrument it picked. 23:08:03 GregorR: Then it's generating tones out of my MIDI's range. 23:08:07 (Or inaudible.) 23:08:26 It's probably that it randomly chose the "wrong" instrument. 23:08:30 GregorR: How many <15kHz tones does it have? 23:08:36 GregorR: but this is quite good. Make it generate multiple tracks. 23:08:39 pikhq: Why, none! :P 23:08:43 Curses. 23:08:45 A special-case for percussion, say. Then add rests. And it will rock. 23:08:57 * pikhq wants a piece of music for not-old-men. 23:09:05 ais523: Hbrw: Jst dd vwls. <-- actually hbrw is more insidious than that iirc. the jews themselves found it unreadable so they added _some_ but not _all_ of the vowel information using silent consonants at some point. then much later they added full vowel diacritics, but only for special purposes like the bible. 23:09:05 ehird: T.B.H., I don't know sh** about MIDI percussion :P 23:09:45 GregorR: There are a few instruments that just have one sound with varying pitches, which is stupid 23:09:51 GregorR: But the drumkit ones, 23:09:52 -!- atrapado has quit ("going-to-sleep"). 23:09:56 a pitch = one of the sounds. 23:10:00 Trial and error. 23:10:09 It's hard to trial-and-error with an autocomposer :P 23:10:28 GregorR: Fire up midi composer. Play around with drumkit. Program results into autocomposer. 23:11:01 GregorR: It's just given me a percussive song :P 23:11:07 It's very foreboding. 23:11:10 Whaaaaaa? 23:11:15 Timpani maybe? 23:11:19 GregorR: Yeah, I think so. 23:11:21 I'll upload it. 23:11:23 Ah, that'd explain it. 23:11:29 It's rather catchy. 23:11:33 GregorR: http://filebin.ca/dqnzjf/gen-1.mid 23:11:57 It has some variation, too. 23:11:58 Ve' go'. 23:12:45 http://filebin.ca/smgzgb/gen3.mid // this one is seriously sweet 23:12:57 As is gen-1 23:13:26 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:13:41 GregorR: gen-1 seriously feels like an old DOS game 23:13:44 a dramatic scene 23:13:54 Hahahaha, it so does X-D 23:13:55 it's the sort of crunchy, distorted sound of the timpanis 23:14:09 GregorR: gen3 is jazzy 23:16:43 GregorR: this could be seriously great given time. Want me to run gen-1 through my mt-32 for that Authenticke sound? 23:18:10 GregorR: I agree, so I'll do it. 23:19:37 YES 23:19:48 GregorR: CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR ENTHUSIASM 23:19:53 DO YOU WANT ME TO TAKE A PICTURE OF IT TOO 23:20:13 -!- coppro has joined. 23:20:23 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:20:42 ehird: ... YES? 23:20:48 OKAY SIR 23:20:57 WAIT. GregorR? 23:21:04 MY COMPUTER DOES NOT HAVE A MIDI OUT THINGY. 23:21:08 JUST MY KEYBOARD. 23:21:11 ......... 23:21:16 I'M NOT SURE WHAT TO DO. 23:21:36 Uh, buy a USB->MIDI adapter? :P 23:21:51 GregorR: THAT TAKES WORK. 23:22:04 GregorR: I COULD TELL MY COMPUTER TO TELL MY KEYBOARD TO TELL THE MT-32 TO PLAY IT, I GUESS. 23:23:05 GregorR: Did you know that you could send messages to appear on an mt-32's display? 23:23:08 Adventure games did that. 23:23:09 ehird: Your computer doesn't do MIDI? Lame soundcard. 23:23:16 pikhq: It DOES, but I don't have a port for it. 23:23:24 iMac. It doesn't have many ports. 23:23:33 (I think it more likely your computer has a gameport/MIDI port, and you just need an adapter) 23:23:34 Very, VERY few modern computers have MIDI ports. 23:23:38 ... Oh, right. *Mac*. 23:23:41 Even classically they had game ports with adapters. 23:23:53 GregorR: Mine has two, if you count game ports. 23:24:09 ... Fine, so that's because I have onboard sound *and* a PCI sound card. 23:24:32 pikhq: So, two game ports? :P 23:24:52 Yuh. 23:25:11 Hmm. 23:25:28 Guess I'll try doing a bastard computer→keyboard→mt-32→computer setup. 23:25:35 No, wait. 23:25:38 Guess I'll try doing a bastard computer→keyboard→mt-32→keyboard→computer setup. 23:26:15 GregorR: The cool thing about the mt-32 was that games and stuff could reprogram its soundbank. 23:26:18 Unlike sound cards, etc. 23:26:20 On the fly. 23:26:37 Like MODs! 23:27:02 ehird: So, like a high-quality sound card or a MIDI program. 23:27:02 Hm 23:27:10 pikhq: No. MIDI soundcards cannot do that. 23:27:12 It was a unique feature. 23:27:23 (And why game companies loved it so much even though it cost so much and nobody had one) 23:28:37 GregorR: Hookin' up stuff now 23:29:10 ehird: Some sound cards have proper synthesizers, and not just wavetables. 23:29:15 They're few and far between, though. 23:29:16 pikhq: Not back then. 23:30:37 Oh. 80s. 23:31:01 pikhq: and 90s 23:31:06 GregorR: does it generate any stero? 23:31:07 stereo 23:31:10 I only have one lead, so mono output 23:31:34 Late 90s is about when soundcards got better than wavetable. 23:31:39 ehird: No, no stereo. 23:31:47 k 23:33:42 GregorR: all hooked up 23:33:45 now to figure out how to send shit 23:39:51 * oerjan suggests an excremental approach 23:40:26 GregorR: "Rondo will run in demo mode where random features are disabled each session." 23:40:27 hahaha 23:40:50 ehird: ? 23:40:54 GregorR: the midi playing software 23:40:58 Sweet :P 23:41:00 GregorR: disabling a different feature each run is so stupdi : 23:41:01 :P 23:41:03 *stupid 23:41:17 "You may choose up to 5 features" 23:41:18 (no, really0 23:41:21 *) 23:41:43 that's what they should have done for Windows Starter Edition! 23:41:47 I don't disbelieve you, that's just incredible. 23:42:15 *attempts to find out how to make it send midi* 23:43:16 GregorR: it's Taiko Drum, not Timpani, btw 23:43:29 ehird: Ah. 23:44:19 >_< 23:44:24 it doesn't let you re-pick features 23:44:25 oh, now it does. 23:45:14 Is Taiko Drum a feature? ;) 23:45:31 JUST LET ME USE MY MT-32!!! 23:46:22 * ehird tries "Mighty MIDI" 23:47:17 Yes! 23:47:20 It seems to be able to do it 23:47:30 GregorR: This will be rather WTFy... 23:47:40 I'll have to start a recording in GarageBand, 23:47:45 then tell Mighty MIDI to play it 23:47:48 then stop when it stops. 23:49:14 ok, it's sending to the kb 23:49:30 but we're not getting anything back 23:50:23 GregorR: problem identified 23:50:29 the mt-32 isn't blinking, so it isn't getting anything 23:50:51 think i gotta change some settings on the kb 23:55:04 okie dokie 23:55:04 http://filebin.ca/dsnmkp/TellinglyAccessibleJig.mid // three-track autocomposed :) 23:55:21 GregorR: d'you think maybe "midi out" is it 23:55:24 ((or "panic")) 23:55:28 actually it might be "Local" 23:55:34 * ehird reads manual 23:55:52 aha 23:55:57 The MIDI Out Mode key (G#2) determines what data is sent to the external MIDI Out port Pressing this key in Edit mode will 23:55:57 toggle between two options: 23:55:59 1) MIDI coming from the computer via USB is sent to the external MIDI Out port 23:56:01 2) MIDI from the Keyboard is sent to the USB and external MIDI Out ports 23:59:02 GregorR: that tellingly accessible jig is way too accessible 23:59:07 GregorR: needs moar percussion 23:59:08 :P 23:59:19 ^help 23:59:20 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 23:59:35 ^source 23:59:36 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt