00:00:14 Mmm, yeah. Apple does very good hardware design. 00:00:26 ehird: There's large fans to the side of the heatsinks. 00:00:32 Ah. 00:00:36 pikhq: Mmnope. 00:00:39 oh, right 00:00:40 in the case 00:00:41 indeed 00:00:45 Bit of a restrictive grill there 00:00:48 I'd mount them directly on the heatsink 00:01:08 They probably did that for noise reasons. 00:01:22 pikhq: Then they're dumb. That obstruction will make the fans whine 00:01:25 By having them to the side of the heatsink like that, they can have a large, low RPM fan. 00:01:28 (and indeed, I've heard reports about whining under load) 00:01:36 pikhq: Those heatsinks are big enough to fit a 120mm fan 00:01:47 Just like the higher-end PC CPU heatsinks 00:02:12 But seriously, it's two Nehalem Xeons. Those things are gonna need high RPM fans at load regardless of anything else. 00:02:54 Oh, right. They use *Intel* processors. 00:03:02 You can cook eggs on them if you're not careful. 00:03:04 Since 2005, bud. :P 00:03:23 But yeah, I'd scrap the grill and mount the fans directly on the heatsink. 00:03:37 I wonder how they got the CPU/RAM on another board? I don't think that's in any consumer-purchasable motherboard setup. 00:03:40 Intel's had CPUs you can fry eggs on since about 2001. :p 00:03:55 ehird, that's not hard to do, actually. 00:04:04 Is it not? 00:04:04 First, they design the motherboard. 00:04:16 pikhq: Apple use Tyan server-grade motherboards. 00:04:24 iirc 00:04:26 in partnership 00:04:28 but they don't make their own 00:04:43 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 00:04:44 It's a matter of having the FSB go over the edge connector is all. 00:05:00 (Mac Pros also use server RAM w/ ECC. You need a server board for two Nehalem processors (which also requires you use Xeon, not i7, iirc), but they seem to be doing it willingly too.) 00:05:05 pikhq: no performance hit? 00:05:18 Oh, oh, really stupid thing about new Mac Pros; 00:05:24 Here's the selection of graphics cards: 00:05:26 Why *would* there be a performance hit? 00:05:39 [[NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB 00:05:39 2x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB [Add $150.00] 00:05:40 3x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB [Add $300.00] 00:05:42 4x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB [Add $450.00] 00:05:44 ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB [Add $200.00]]] 00:05:59 You can choose up to 4 low-end consumer cards, or one low-high-end gamer's card! 00:06:08 In a professional's ultra-high-end boutique machine! 00:06:13 Woop woop. 00:06:21 It's not like having the electrons go through a connector instead right on the board makes them magically go slower. 00:06:29 pikhq: True, but, longer distance :P 00:06:52 And electrons travel a bit short of the speed of light. 00:06:56 <_< 00:07:03 pikhq: http://static.arstechnica.com/macpro0409/14benchwellht.png Okay, WTF. Yeah, okay, so hyperthreading thrashes the cache. SO WHY IS IT SO GODDAMN FAST! 00:07:39 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:07:46 http://static.arstechnica.com/macpro0409/16power.png ← Huh, I wonder what Apple did to keep the power consumption so low? 00:07:50 378 watts at load is great. 00:07:59 (For a dual-high-end processor machine w/ 12GB of RAM) 00:08:01 ehird: Because rendering doesn't use the cache that much? 00:08:10 pikhq: Er, whyever not? 00:08:24 SourceForge Acquires Ohloh 00:08:24 May 28, 2009 00:08:25 Today SourceForge has acquired Ohloh. We at Ohloh are pretty awed and excited at the opportunity (and challenges) ahead. I plan on blogging more deeply over the next few weeks but I wanted to give you some background on why this makes se... CONTINUE... 00:08:29 RIP Ohloh 00:08:59 ehird: Because you don't exactly access the same memory all that close to the same time in a render? 00:09:02 pikhq: Hahahaha. The low-end gfx cards the Mac Pros ship with, 00:09:15 is just a rebranded GeForce 9500 GT. Which is the ultra-crappy $40 card I got for bsmntbombgirl's rig. 00:09:24 But you can have FOUR of them!111111 00:09:31 That is crappy. 00:09:45 Not that Apple charges $150 for each additional card in there. 00:09:56 pikhq: Alternatively, you can have a gaming card. Never mind, say, a Nvidia Quadro or Tesla. 00:09:59 No, this is totally a gaming machine. 00:10:09 Erm. 00:10:09 s/Not/Note/ 00:10:13 Not even a 4890 or an X2. It's just one 4870. 00:10:16 pikhq: Yeah. 00:10:21 Well, anyone knows that Apple is $$$. 00:10:36 They just shove the costs for assembly and general design sense and OS onto the other components. 00:11:02 If I'm spending $450 on GPUs, I'm thinking a Tesla would be nice. :p 00:11:08 16GB (8x2GB) [Add $500.00] 00:11:08 32GB (8x4GB) [Add $6,100.00] 00:11:16 Bit of a price jump there; wonder where they got 4GB sticks of DDR3? 00:11:21 I didn't know they even existed. 00:11:36 (knowing my usage of GPUs, if I'm spending that much, then it's for GPGPU usage) 00:11:48 ehird: Note the price. That's why you don't see them much. ;) 00:12:21 *gawp*. The Apple Cinema Displays — you know, really nice things — 00:12:23 They now use OLEDs. 00:12:34 So tempting... 00:12:57 Wait, no. 00:12:58 No they don't. 00:13:03 They're just calilng LCD "LED". 00:13:09 Stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid 00:13:49 I didn't know that liquid crystals had anything to do with light-emitting diodes. 00:14:07 Dammit, people: these terms mean something other than "LAWLZ IT SHOWS STUFF". 00:15:34 [[New LA-based Mac cloner hopes to magically alter status quo 00:15:34 Yet another company has decided to toss its hat into the Mac cloning ring. This latest venture hopes to avoid Psystar's fate by opening a retail store to supplement online sales. Can we get a WTF?]] 00:15:41 pikhq: How apropos to what you were saying. 00:16:04 [["It's exciting. We are trying to stay as close to Apple as we can with our products," Rashantha De Silva, Quo founder, told CNET. "We are trying to mimic things as much as we can. I'm hoping that Apple sees the value in what we are doing."]] 00:16:10 For values of "value" equal to "ripping you off". 00:17:00 lol. 00:17:18 it's not ripping them off if they're overchanging anyway 00:17:27 Facepalm. 00:17:32 myndzi: ...what? 00:17:36 how does that follow at all 00:17:42 if apple products are overpriced simply because there's no competition 00:17:47 that's untrue 00:17:47 than having competition doesn't = "ripping them off" 00:17:53 they're overpriced because they're overpriced 00:17:54 it's a conditional statement 00:17:57 myndzi: what they're doing is illegal 00:18:06 what are they doing that is illegal? 00:18:08 Make a very nice EFI-based machine and do the whole wink-wink nudge-nudge thing. 00:18:10 i honestly haven't followed this 00:18:17 myndzi: OS X. 00:18:18 myndzi: selling computers with os x on them 00:18:22 a violation of the OS X EULA 00:19:11 oh, right 00:19:21 have eulas even been tested to hold up? 00:19:31 apple sued the pants off a company doing the same 00:19:41 but eulas themselves aren't generally held to work uncontroversially 00:19:48 this is fairly unquestionably illegal, though 00:19:56 i'm a little confused 00:20:00 anyway, apple products aren't overpriced because of a lack of competition; they're overpriced because they're boutique 00:20:02 if you can't buy a computer with OS X on it 00:20:06 what are people who buy apple products doing? 00:20:06 :P 00:20:27 myndzi: apple are an apple-partnered retailer, and they sell Apple-labeled computers 00:20:39 you can install OS X on apple-labeled computers, and you can sell computers with OS X on them 00:20:50 they're selling computers that they installed OS X on that aren't apple-labeled 00:20:53 therefore they are breaking the law 00:21:00 ah 00:21:10 seems silly anyway but *shrug* 00:21:24 myndzi: Apple are a hardware company that only survive because of their software. 00:21:27 It's an odd situation. 00:21:43 They wouldn't make enough money if they just sold OS X for PCs, but nobody really buys an Apple because of its hardware. 00:21:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:28:20 Hmm. 00:29:29 "(for example, getting up close to the Mona Lisa reveals the crackled texture of the dried oil paints, not a bunch of little Mona Lisas)" 00:29:53 It's Mona Lisas all the way down. 00:29:58 X-D 00:31:54 http://i42.tinypic.com/302yjdg.png 00:31:55 Wow. 00:31:59 That rightmost compression is amazing. 00:32:02 the question is whether that part of the EULA is enforceable 00:32:03 Too bad it's a blackbox windows binary. 00:32:27 coppro: well, apple don't sell "Mac OS X", they sell "Mac OS X for use on Apple Macintosh computers" 00:32:38 well, yeah. 00:32:48 but that may be illegal 00:32:50 GregorR-L: what's Odikeh's rationale? 00:33:13 EULAs are high on the list of contracts that may be viewed as unenforceable for the position they put the consumer it 00:33:15 *in 00:33:30 ehird: Odikeh was a conlang, þe Odikeh alphabet was juſt þe alphabet for it. 00:34:13 Ahh. 00:34:16 I put English in it, see. 00:34:50 Yeah, at'd be wonko :P 00:35:11 What would be fun is a Standard English Abbreviated Alphabet. 00:35:13 ehird: Picture? 00:35:23 e.g., "the x" could be x with a slash or something. 00:35:26 pikhq: Shur. 00:36:56 Uploading. 00:37:11 pikhq: http://imgur.com/0dPo3.png 00:37:56 Yeah, Odikeh haþ more letters þan Engliſh, but haþ no upper- vs lower-caſe, ſo a few of þe upper-caſe letters are unuſed. 00:38:12 I just typed it in the original cas. 00:38:14 *case 00:38:19 i.e., T is the only uppercase. 00:38:27 A few of þe lower-caſe letters are unuſed too, mebbe :P 00:38:29 I don't remember. 00:38:39 It's been at leaſt a year and a half ſince I've looked at it. 00:38:39 GregorR-L: My custom script is an English shorthand. ;) 00:38:48 pikhq: Do tell! 00:38:54 Þy cuſtom FACE is Engliſh ſhorþand 00:39:03 Whoops, definitely ſhouldn't be a þorn þere. 00:39:07 If I had a scanner, I'd give some examples. 00:39:16 pikhq: Just use the GIMP or something 00:39:27 GregorR-L: Shortḧand? 00:39:31 Yuh 00:39:34 Shouldn't be ſhorþand 00:39:41 what's with these thorns and such? 00:39:42 pikhq: h is not a vowel 00:39:47 coppro: GregorR-L wrote a scirpt to do it 00:39:53 ah 00:39:56 I know. 00:39:59 it's irritating 00:40:09 Yup. 00:40:14 Wonderfully irritating! 00:40:27 Somewhere here, I have a script to start up a nice Xnest for Gimpiness. 00:40:33 Now, where is it? 00:40:45 pikhq: HAY TILING WMS ARE AWSUM 00:40:47 .... why do þou need an XNeſt for þe GIMP? 00:41:01 GregorR-L: it uses 3 windows 00:41:04 and he uses a tiling wm 00:41:13 so it fucks up because his WM sucks and forces everything into an unnatural layout. 00:41:23 So he needs an xnest to make it seem like one window. 00:41:39 lol 00:41:53 And Xnest is broken. 00:41:59 Is þere any caſe of þe word "do" where "doſt" is incorrect? 00:41:59 Off to workspace two, then. 00:42:00 xnest, as an side, is sucky; there should be a way to use it without starting a whole new server. 00:42:04 It doesn't need that. 00:42:24 No, þere is. To doſt þat would be bad. (<-- example) 00:42:55 Right, I'm bringing back a letter of my own. 00:43:13 Oh? E? 00:43:18 And-per-ſe-and? 00:43:38 Perhaps eth. 00:43:43 But eth doesn't feel very th to me. 00:44:11 Neier do y face. 00:44:15 GregorR-L: Perhaps yoȝ. 00:44:27 Ȝes, this could be nice. Albeit rare. 00:44:46 I only brought back letters þat had digraph replacements *ſhrugs* 00:44:52 No, at's not true. 00:45:01 OK, þe long-s þing is juſt ſillineſs :P 00:45:12 GregorR-L: It's y and gh and stuff. 00:45:15 BRING BACK RUNES! 00:45:32 The disadvantage to this is that Y AND GH ARE REALLY UNCOMMON. 00:45:40 But þe Ȝ->y was more of a letter evolution þan a linguiſtic change, waſn't it? Þat is, þe letter is þe ſame, it juſt looks different. 00:45:56 GregorR-L: "dost" 00:46:08 ...hey, you said that. 00:46:10 GregorR-L: No; the letter is "yogh", which was spelt yoȝ. 00:46:15 So it's not *exactly* modern y. 00:46:18 Weirditude. 00:46:34 kerlo: Yeah, but not every inſtance of "do" can be changed for "doſt" :( 00:46:48 I dostn't know. 00:46:53 Maybe I'll bring 00:46:54 ʥ 00:46:59 dz with a flick, bitch. 00:47:15 Hey, you got the s at the end of a word right. 00:47:27 Or ɷ, "butt". 00:48:28 Though perhaps "ſillineſs" should be written with... that fancy German lowercase SS thing. 00:48:50 Yes. 00:49:37 Esh (majuscule: Ʃ, minuscule: ʃ; Unicode U+01A9, U+0283) is a character used in conjunction with the Latin alphabet, introduced by Isaac Pitman in his 1847 Phonotypic Alphabet to represent the voiceless postalveolar fricative (English sh), and is today used in the International Phonetic Alphabet as well as in the alphabets of some African languages. 00:49:39 Its lowercase form ʃ is similar to an italic long s ſ or an integral sign ∫; its uppercase form Ʃ is based on the Greek letter sigma. 00:49:42 PERFECT 00:49:51 at's not a dead letter, at's a was-never-alive letter :P 00:49:59 GregorR-L: btw, you can use ∫ as an s thing that looks italic. 00:50:21 GregorR-L: Ʃut up, anyway; I'll use this ʃit if I like. 00:50:24 So, I think I may drop s2.normish.org. There's a good chance that ehird would encourage me to do so. 00:50:28 Ew, that's ugly. 00:50:35 kerlo: Yer a mind reader :P 00:50:47 Is þere ſome backſtory here? 00:50:56 Whut? 00:51:04 Is there some backstory where? 00:51:12 eh, maybe I'll just use the schwa. dəmon. 00:51:13 nah 00:51:23 Ou (Majuscule: Ȣ, Minuscule: ȣ) is a ligature of the Greek letters ο and υ which was frequently used in Byzantine manuscripts. This ligature is still seen today on icon artwork inside Greek Orthodox churches. 00:51:24 kerlo: s2.normiſh.org 00:51:27 hȣse 00:51:30 kerlo: And ehird being all wompo about it 00:51:44 GregorR-L: ask him; I don't think there's much to explain. 00:51:54 ehird: ? 00:52:15 GregorR-L: I just thought that the idea of starting a nomic from scratch was the silly. Also he used mysql and PHP and stuff and *vomit* 00:52:31 OH, I þought it was ſomeþing about þe domain name itſelf. 00:52:37 nop 00:52:37 e 00:52:49 Turned v (majuscule: Ʌ, minuscule: ʌ) is a letter of the Latin alphabet, based on a turned form of V. 00:52:51 "fomeping", I like at. 00:52:56 I declare it to mean fjkghdfiugherdfl. 00:53:23 ehird: A common conflagration. 00:53:30 "is a letter of the Latin alphabet"? Which Latin alphabet is that? 00:53:52 kerlo: e Somalian Latin alphabet. 00:55:46 Hmm, I like the Unicode character LATIN LETTER TWO WITH STROKE. 00:56:05 Okay, I created a rough example via the GIMP. 00:56:09 Because 2 is totally a letter now. 00:56:15 pikhq: yaaaaaay 01:01:49 Anyway, I think I'll write my vowels enPR-style. 01:02:20 pikhq: well? 01:02:21 ll jſt nt wrt m vwls 01:03:25 Just as soon as I manage to install the Alt-Latin keyboard layout. 01:06:14 Eh, I'll emulate. 01:07:04 Th@ kwik brown fox jumps _ov@r th@ l_az_e däg. 01:07:21 Actually, circumflexes work pretty nicely. 01:07:29 pikhq: pingy. 01:07:43 Th@ kwik brown fox jumps ôv@r the@ lâzê däg. 01:08:55 Is this môr ôr less @nnôying th@n Greg@rR's schêm? 01:09:13 More, mine haþ leſs modification. 01:10:06 Yôô didn't êv@n ûz th@ sâm w@rd f@r "has". 01:10:21 And þou doſt? :P 01:10:31 At leaſt mine is all valid Engliſh (of ſome era) 01:10:40 pikhq: PINGGGGGGGGG 01:10:55 Wh@t's invalid @bowt mîn? 01:12:18 If yôô wont, sâ Î'm just wrîting pr@nuncêâsh@nz insted @v spellingz. 01:12:36 kerlo: Yours is so annoying that I refuse to read it. 01:12:37 Did ou really pronounce 'l' twice ere? ;) 01:13:00 And yes, Î am ûzing cons@n@nts s@mw@t inc@nsist@ntlê. 01:13:24 I actually find at quite readable. 01:14:06 Well, how wood Î distingwish b@twên "unâmd" and "unnâmd" if Î didn't pr@z@rv cons@n@nt lengths? 01:15:57 * GregorR-L is trying to decide what "unamed" means. 01:16:37 It mêns "not âmd". 01:17:01 Oh, un AIMED. 01:17:41 e ing is, ou actually pronounce e n twice in un-named. 01:18:01 But þou don't pronounce þe l twice in ſpelling (ſpe*ling) 01:18:18 Are you sure? :-P 01:18:28 (Shoodn't that bê "pronouncest" or something?) 01:18:28 May be an accent ing 01:18:33 I don't þink ſo :P 01:18:37 I guess I don't do it. 01:18:43 @r. 01:18:54 Î gess Î dôn't dôô it. 01:18:58 Now þat's juſt "r" 01:19:05 Let's not get all ſchwer-pedantic. 01:19:05 Iz not. 01:19:18 * kerlo shrugz. 01:19:24 * GregorR-L whois' to determine :P 01:19:35 Þat dœſn't tell me þy location :( 01:20:18 C@nect tôô Nôrmish and run @ whôôiz. :-P 01:20:28 Too lazy. 01:20:29 s/iz// 01:20:47 quasnaart pts/1 May 17 00:37 (97-84-4-245:S.0) 01:20:48 tetsu pts/7 May 28 16:29 (m7a5e36d0:S.0) 01:20:48 tetsu pts/0 May 29 23:37 (m7a5e36d0:S.1) 01:20:48 tetsu pts/5 May 29 23:39 (m7a5e36d0:S.2) 01:20:48 ihope pts/8 May 30 12:40 (c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 01:20:50 tetsu pts/9 May 30 02:00 (m7a5e36d0:S.3) 01:20:57 * coppro is irritated by Enigma's last tutorial level 01:21:22 Enigma? 01:21:38 Î w@nd@r whî Î dôn't hav @ :S.0 aft@r mî hôstnâm. 01:26:05 ehird: http://imgur.com/B8SqH.png 01:26:11 Had to go cook. 01:26:30 Now, to start working on a different project to replace Normish! >:-) 01:26:44 Which I say solely to scare ehird. 01:27:10 Very, *very* rough example. 01:27:16 Bezier curves ahoy. 01:27:18 (Hey, "solely" is another double-consonant word.) 01:36:31 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:37:31 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 01:56:11 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:56:19 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 01:56:51 that's a funky setup 01:56:56 http://static.arstechnica.com/macpro0409/3neh_internalshr.jpg 01:57:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:00:08 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 02:01:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:34:44 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:34:53 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 03:15:04 the most expensive i could make a mac pro was $15k :( 03:39:42 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 03:41:24 ¿El agua hierve? ¿Qué hierve? 03:42:45 bsmntbombgirl: LAME. 03:43:01 I can get a system up beyond that before starting on hard drives. 03:44:02 (granted, with hard drives, the theoretical max is oo. There's RAID chassis that hook up via eSATA. Infinite storage FTW) 03:45:46 raid via sata is pretty stupid though 03:45:51 you will run out of bandwidth pretty fast 03:57:21 -!- inurinternet has joined. 04:03:57 -!- bsmntbombgirl has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:05:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:05:47 Hay! You told me I didn't need a e-mail address to register 04:05:59 But now it says I do 04:06:18 It also says I need to register and IDENTIFY to post message on ##C channel. 04:06:34 But IDENTIFY is not a valid command and I can 04:06:47 't register without password/email but I don't want either of those things 04:07:01 /join #freenode 04:07:24 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:07:34 -!- zzo38 has left (?). 04:45:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 05:45:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:23:24 haha 06:23:25 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*4>[(+)*20[-]](+)*4>(+)*4)*10 06:23:36 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 80.1 06:23:40 probably luck based :( 06:24:22 So's y FACE. 06:24:53 Alſo, you're not allowed to frown after getting þe top ſcore. 06:25:28 ya but I might be abusing... ~~:'(~~ HASH BASED RANDOMNESS ~~:'(~~ 06:26:32 ou people love to complain :P 06:26:47 SED FAIL. 06:26:55 BTW, "you" would be correct in this case. 06:27:14 I þought "þou" was juſt þe polite form of "þou" 06:27:17 Errr 06:27:20 I thought "thou" was just the polite form of "you" 06:27:29 And so both are correct in any case. 06:27:39 anyway it ought to cause maximum discomfort to programs that expect a certain behaviour 06:27:41 "Thou" is the polite second person singular. 06:27:47 because it does not attack every third cell and has mod 3 behaviour 06:27:55 "You" is the impolite second person singular and the second person plural. 06:28:23 pikhq: Oh, plurality iſsues :( 06:28:28 pikhq: Stupid Engliſh. 06:28:35 Y'all people love to complain. 06:28:42 Voſotros love to complain. 06:28:44 Valid. 06:29:43 thou was the impolite one, I think 06:30:10 dictionary.com ſays oþerwiſe :P 06:30:24 No it dœſn't eiþer. 06:30:53 Note: "In Old Engliſh, generally, þou is þe language of a lord to a ſervant, of an equal to an equal, and expreſses alſo companionſhip, love, permiſsion, defiance, ſcorn, þreatening: whilſt ye is þe language of a ſervant to a lord, and of compliment, and furþer expreſses honor, ſubmiſsion, or entreaty." --Skeat. 06:31:17 It's hard to ſpeak a language I don't actually ſpeak :P 06:31:22 Asztal: Ah. Right. 06:31:31 Þinko. 06:32:44 INKO COMMIE 06:32:55 at's nice, I like at. 06:32:57 inking is bad. 06:33:04 COMMIES ARE PINK AND ÞEY ÞINK! 06:33:33 I only speak ASCII 06:33:35 tyvm 06:33:40 * Patashu presses 1 for english 06:33:46 Þis is all Engliſh. 06:33:53 It's juſt not ... modern Engliſh :P 06:34:02 Þis is more Engliſh þan you would ever know. 06:34:16 GregorR-L: It's considered modern Engliſh. Early Modern, to be ſpecific. 06:34:23 s/considered/conſidered. 06:34:37 pikhq: In þe ſame way þat cro-magnon is human. Juſt not Anatomically Modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens (AMHSS) 06:34:51 pikhq: But y'know what people ſay as ſhort for AMHSS? Modern human. 06:35:22 I ſentence you to 100 years of Chaucer. 06:35:45 I ſentence þou to 100 years as a Homo Heidelbergenſis. 06:36:05 I þou þee. 06:36:12 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:36:14 -!- psygnisf_ has joined. 06:41:03 "Þyself þou þouëst." 06:41:08 :) 06:44:26 I þee þy þou, and raiſe þee þe þouſands!! 06:52:57 have you read your ſicp today? 06:53:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:57:02 -!- amca has joined. 07:02:24 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:09:28 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:11:52 -!- myndzi has joined. 07:24:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:27:43 Pataſhu: Pataſhu_2_3weave doþ in fact do far worſe wiþ different randomization :P 07:27:49 Patashu: Patashu_2_3weave does in fact do far worse with different randomization :P 07:28:18 just tested? 07:32:12 Yes. 07:35:51 seems to be pretty common 07:36:01 the random thing is gonna have to change if we are to have any chance of optimizing things based on the code itself 07:36:02 :\ 07:36:07 I'm now uſing all lengþs. 07:36:11 oh really? 07:36:13 interesting! 07:36:21 It's ſlow :P 07:36:34 But if þou give me ten minutes to get þe initial cache, I þink it ſhould be faſt enough for normal runs. 07:36:59 i like that two of my programs are near the top after that change :> 07:37:05 it hasn't changed yet 07:37:07 maybe now i can optimize them 'for realz' 07:37:09 else 2/3weave would go dooown 07:37:09 oic 07:37:22 What difference ſhould conſtitute a win? 07:37:27 well somebody tell me when to check 07:37:29 OK, even I'm getting tired of at :P 07:37:33 GregorR-L: ideally it should be scored on everything 07:37:48 if it were me, i'd give each program X points for a win and Y for a tie 07:37:58 so if they win all matches against another program, that's 21*X 07:38:00 or whatever 07:38:00 are you checking reverse polarity as well? 07:38:07 Pataſhu: No (not yet?) 07:38:18 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:38:27 maybe divide it by something to keep them from getting out of hand, i dunno how the results would be with just that simple scoring 07:38:46 Well, it would be from -20 to 20 for each run. 07:38:50 but if you have the info from 21 battles, it seems kind of arbitrary to "reduce" that information to just win or loss 07:38:53 aren't there 21 lengths? 07:38:58 ^ 07:38:58 Errr, 21, yes. 07:39:03 you'd reduce it to a fractional win/loss I presume 07:39:14 That occurs to me as blehish. 07:39:17 20 wins and 1 loss would add 19/21 07:39:18 (You heard me, blehish) 07:39:21 lol 07:39:35 i don't really know why? the most wins is the most desirable 07:39:37 * myndzi shrugs 07:39:46 instead of + - and 0 though 07:39:56 you'd need some set of 1 or 2 symbols indicating what amount was won/lost 07:39:57 oh, yeah. i don't know what you will do there 07:40:02 More accurately, that's a major change to the system ^^ 07:40:08 http://sal.math.ualberta.ca/hill.php?key=94b 07:40:13 ^ an example of a pretty decent way to do it 07:40:21 what, running against all lengths ISN'T a major change? :) 07:40:51 ah, that doesn't display it as a grid 07:40:57 -!- jix has joined. 07:40:58 myndzi: No, actually. 07:41:04 oh, you mean codewise 07:41:09 i thought you meant results wise 07:41:22 Patashu: click the name of one warrior 07:41:22 myndzi: There are two components, the interpreter and the reporter. The only interaction between them is execl. 07:41:26 yeah I did 07:41:39 I kind of don't want to change that, since I'd like the interpreter to be usable independently ... 07:42:00 GregorR-L: have the interpreter return a score 07:42:13 wins-for-1st-program wins-for-2nd-program ties 07:42:15 or something 07:42:26 myndzi: return ohyeahthat'srightthisisaninteger; 07:42:41 :P 07:42:49 "output" 07:43:03 I don't want to parse *blehlazy* 07:43:03 technically you COULD do it like... 07:43:08 lol 07:43:14 ties + losses * 32 + wins * 32^2 07:43:15 :) 07:43:17 that'd be an integer! 07:43:35 or for the lazy ties & losses << 5 & wins << 10 07:43:39 or something like that 07:43:46 * myndzi shrugs 07:43:53 or have the reporter run the interpreter 21 times 07:43:59 instead of running the multiple runs in the interpreter 07:44:09 then you can get individual results using your precious return ;) 07:44:59 Somebody give me a quick lesson on associative arrays in Python :P 07:45:13 dictionaries? 07:45:18 Yeah :P 07:45:22 oh what 07:45:23 Otyg - Holy Diver (03:51) 07:45:26 I'm not really that much of a Pythoner, but I've decided to be. 07:45:27 haha this sounds amusing 07:45:32 i like the dio version much better 07:45:50 http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict not good enough for you? 07:46:08 how do i get hg to update a cloned directory? 07:46:13 hg update doesn't seem to do it 07:46:40 hg pull 07:46:41 hg up 07:46:59 ah 07:47:14 hg up updates from your /working directory/ from the /local repository/, hg pull updates your /local repository/ from the /remote repository/. 07:47:26 i see 07:47:33 thanks :) 07:47:47 i just realized when i rebooted i lost my query scrollback to EgoBot 07:47:52 and thus all the code i was playing with 07:48:20 Have fun poking around hg :P 07:48:30 i did earlier 07:48:45 i don't know if you heard it, but i guess the package in ubuntu was old, that's why i had problems 07:48:51 i installed the windows one and it worked great 07:49:03 took me quite some time to figure out how to display the most recent version of a deleted file though 07:51:52 That's what I meant. 07:51:58 That sort of stuff, not getting it installed. 07:52:19 yeah, i just was saying it 'cause i think you went off before i got it working 07:58:20 OK, I just set it up to use polarity too. 07:58:27 Wow that's getting slow :P 07:58:39 (Then again, I am doing 400 runs) 07:58:44 so far it hasn't updated for me, is it still (re?) running? 07:59:02 840 07:59:10 21*2*20 07:59:35 400 runs as in 20 programs vs 20 programs. 07:59:45 whoops 07:59:46 (Which is a huge overestimate, actually, but eh :P ) 07:59:46 i forgot a 20 07:59:50 or something 07:59:59 20*19*2*21 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:00 Hey look, slowrush is back on top :P 08:00:02 15960 08:00:05 awesome! 08:00:10 And 2_3weave right below. 08:00:18 i still get the old report though 08:00:31 old report for me 08:00:56 btw 08:01:00 you'd only need 210 matcups 08:01:02 not 20*20 08:01:07 oh of course 08:01:09 20! 08:01:11 T(20) 08:01:13 not 20! lol 08:01:16 wait 08:01:18 i fail at math 08:01:19 ignore me 08:01:27 20! 08:01:32 would be the number of ways to order 20 elements 08:01:37 and is also a VERY big number 08:01:37 yeah 08:01:41 yeah *2 08:01:41 what you want is 1+2+3+...20 08:01:45 right 08:01:47 which is like 08:01:56 i forget, but there's a simple formula for it 08:01:56 20^2+20 ) /2 08:01:59 :) 08:02:13 !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*32>(+)*32)*5[>[-].+] 08:02:21 That will take a long while, because it's running a full uncached run. 08:02:23 oh now the report blanks 08:02:28 he hadn't fixed it yet 08:02:30 so let's watch 08:02:32 right 08:02:38 i figure this'll show us the real report 08:02:52 20^2 + 20 doesn't sound right 08:02:57 all ove r2 08:02:57 the squared part, i mean 08:03:00 it's right 08:03:07 that's how fast it grows 08:03:11 right, but i remember vaguely this formula and that doesn't sound correct 08:03:14 for the sum of 1...20 08:03:17 try and plug in the numbers 08:03:22 1^2+1 / 2 is 2/2 is 1 08:03:27 2^2 + 2 / 2 is 6/2 is 3 08:03:35 3^2 + 3 / 2 is 12/2 is 6 08:03:37 so on 08:03:43 yeah 08:03:45 it is correct 08:03:50 but i could have sworn there was a -1 and some shit 08:03:50 hmm so if entering the hill is going to be expensive from now on 08:03:57 maybe there's another formula for the same thing 08:04:07 Patashu: It's not that bad, it's just that this is an uncached run. 08:04:09 Patashu: not this bad, once it caches all the matchups 08:04:11 It's still on the order of a few seconds. 08:04:17 could you add another command that doesn't enter a program on the hill but instead makes it do a match against a program on the hill with your program and return the result 08:04:19 ah, ok 08:04:23 oh yeah 08:04:25 because this has to do 08:04:29 EVERY matchup just for the first time 08:04:32 Yeah 08:04:40 then after that you only need 20 08:04:55 -!- whtspc has joined. 08:04:57 Yeah. 08:05:08 oh 08:05:10 n(n+1)/2 08:05:13 ya 08:05:14 that's the formula i knew 08:05:16 they're equivalent 08:05:18 which is of course n^2+n 08:05:21 296/400 done 08:05:22 but that's why it looked weird to me 08:05:32 400? 08:05:39 why does it need to do a match of x against y then y against x :) 08:05:43 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 28.0 08:05:57 Patashu: It doesn't, but the framework is from and old system where it does, and it's threaded so it's hard to fix that >_> 08:06:03 aah 08:06:04 hehe 08:06:18 16 | + + + 0 + - + + + + 0 + + + + + + + + | 85.7 | 15 | myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust 08:06:19 hot damn 08:06:27 slowrush.isawesome 08:06:36 2 | - - 0 + + 0 - - - - - - - + + - + - - | 28.0 | -7 | GregorR-L_pooper_scooper.bfjoust 08:06:38 lukewarm damn 08:06:38 i still never managed to top 100 points 08:06:39 :\ 08:06:43 2/3 weave is surprisingly good still 08:06:47 myndzi: 100 is the max :P 08:07:07 3 | + + 0 + + + 0 - - + + + + + + 0 + 0 + | 71.3 | 11 | Patashu_2_3weave.bfjoust 08:07:09 that's p. good 08:07:10 and 3pass is still up there too, i am moderately happy about that 08:07:23 i don't want to work on optimizing them now but i'm glad i'll be able to try and tweak them better 08:07:34 I wonder if a 3/4weave would be worthwhile 08:07:52 what is the 2/3 about 08:08:00 it skips every third line 08:08:12 oh really 08:08:16 ya really 08:08:22 huh 08:08:23 (>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*4>[(+)*20[-]](+)*4>(+)*4)*10 08:08:35 i'm surprised it did that well, i guess the speed gain is worth it 08:08:37 -set up eight decoys 08:08:47 -(step decrement step decrement step) loop 08:08:57 but, perhaps you can get the same score simpler by simply skipping those lines at the beginning 08:09:00 except i guess vs defend 08:09:24 okay, let's try 08:09:27 current score is 71.33 08:09:29 hm no 08:09:35 i'm assuming that you're going to skip the flag X times 08:09:41 where X i haven't quite determined 08:09:48 !bfjoust 2_3weave >>>>>>>>(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*4>[(+)*20[-]](+)*4>(+)*4)*10 08:09:49 and that if you put those skips at the start it will score similar 08:09:50 but i don't think so 08:09:51 this is a decoyless version 08:09:53 for two reasons 08:09:59 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 51.5 08:10:05 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*4>[(+)*20[-]](+)*4>(+)*4)*10 08:10:06 1) skipping will overstep the tripwires in defend 08:10:18 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 71.3 08:10:27 2) since you don't skip them all at the start, hrm... maybe 2 is wrong 08:10:28 i dunno 08:10:34 should have looked at what you lost points to 08:10:35 it will foil any setup that relies on multiple tripwires 08:10:35 :) 08:10:43 and half the time it's going to be able to win it will foil a 1-tripwire setup 08:10:45 possibly, unless they are spaced right 08:10:54 1/3 of the time it'll foil a tripwire 08:10:55 :P 08:11:00 !!.!!.!!. 08:11:05 fun huh? 08:11:08 brb drivin' 08:11:17 indeed, it is interesting 08:11:24 also note how fast your submissions were 08:11:28 comparatively 08:11:28 :) 08:11:29 note to self: fiddle with everything else now that I know there's no HASH BASED RANDOMNESS. 08:11:37 haha no kidding 08:11:45 i felt bad for fiddling after i learned that 08:11:53 i had thought i was doing something like adjusting the timing 08:11:54 nope 08:12:08 !bfjoust weirdo >((+>)*10(+<)*10)*128 08:12:19 by the way gregor 08:12:23 ? 08:12:24 one side effect of doing the scoring this way 08:12:29 Score for GregorR-L_weirdo: 0.0 08:12:31 is that you only have to win 51% to get points vs a program 08:12:38 haha it never wins 08:12:42 D-8 08:12:44 it needs to go >> then < 08:12:44 which means you can effectively skip a large part of the tape for free 08:12:46 and repeat 08:12:48 imho 08:12:54 i wonder 08:13:05 I thought you'd get more points for getting more wins vs losses against a specific program 08:13:13 so like 21/21 wins against a prog would help more than 11/21 08:13:14 no? 08:13:16 myndzi: Mmmm, this is true ... 08:13:22 Patashu: he hasn't done something like that yet 08:13:27 ah k 08:13:29 is it planned? 08:13:31 he just arbitrarily decides based on the results if it's a win or a loss or a tie 08:13:37 that's what i was talking about earlier 08:13:42 Planned, but it's a PITA :) 08:13:45 hehe 08:14:13 do the >> < >> < >> < thing 08:14:17 sounds promising 08:14:25 i've considered that multiple times 08:14:28 but it's just a great way to run off the tape 08:14:29 okay really going now 08:14:47 how about > decrement > decrement << > decrement > decrement <<... 08:14:50 really really really 08:14:51 :) 08:14:58 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 08:15:28 !bfjoust oddly (>)*18(>(-)*20[-[+]])*15 08:15:44 Score for myndzi_oddly: 4.3 08:15:47 lol 08:16:00 !bfjoust AHHHMOTHERLAND (>)*1000 08:16:10 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*9(>(-)*20[-[+]])*15 08:16:10 Score for GregorR-L_AHHHMOTHERLAND: 0.0 08:16:16 YAY 08:16:23 Score for myndzi_oddly: 48.2 08:16:40 -!- whtspc has joined. 08:16:46 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*3(>)*12(>(-)*20[-[+]])*15 08:16:59 Score for myndzi_oddly: 35.0 08:17:12 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*5(>(-)*20[-[+]])*15 08:17:29 Score for myndzi_oddly: 54.7 08:17:34 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*6(>(-)*20[-[+]])*15 08:17:50 Score for myndzi_oddly: 57.1 08:17:58 oh crap 08:18:13 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*4(>(-)*20[-[+]])*30 08:18:35 Score for myndzi_oddly: 60.4 08:18:45 !bfjoust oddly (>(-)*19>(+)*19)*3(>(-)*20[-[+]])*30 08:19:09 Score for myndzi_oddly: 44.5 08:20:03 !bfjoust charge [>]>([-].[+].[-]..[-].[+])*100 08:20:05 ha 08:20:06 new king 08:20:34 Score for Asztal_charge: 9.7 08:21:28 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 08:22:11 !bfjoust (+*4[>[-]>[+]<<-]>[-][-[+]])*30 08:22:11 Use: !bfjoust 08:22:20 !bfjoust test (+*4[>[-]>[+]<<-]>[-][-[+]])*30 08:22:40 !bfjoust test ((+)*4[>[-]>[+]<<-]>[-][-[+]])*30 08:23:04 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_test: 8.5 08:23:04 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_test: 8.5 08:23:06 !bfjoust charge [>](>([-].[+].[-]..[-].[+]))*21 08:23:18 Score for Asztal_charge: 0.0 08:23:18 oops 08:23:48 !bfjoust test ((+)*4[>[-]>[+]<<-]>[-][-[+]]>)*30 08:24:14 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_test: 12.5 08:24:38 !bfjoust charge [>](([+].[-].[+]..[-].[-])>)*21 08:25:04 Score for Asztal_charge: 0.0 08:25:05 it's supposed to kill the flag while most programs are still setting up the first defence cell 08:25:37 wait... [>] 08:25:52 is wrong :) 08:26:41 there's no way to actually do that, is there? 08:27:29 whoops i did something silly 08:27:38 i thought i'd do a rear attack 08:27:44 and try for 51% wins 08:27:49 !bfjoust charge (>[+])*50 08:27:53 but of course, tapelength 20 doesn't mean flag @ 20, tapelength 30 08:27:54 so .. 08:27:59 d'oh 08:28:02 Score for Asztal_charge: 19.0 08:28:06 that goes off the end every time, surely 08:28:15 !bfjoust test (((+)*4[>[-]>[+]<<-])*19>(+)*19[-[+]]>)*30 08:28:34 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_test: 8.5 08:28:57 !bfjoust charge (>[+].>[-].)*50 08:29:11 Score for Asztal_charge: 28.5 08:30:53 Why is it that every time I make a (much requested) change to the hill, everybody immediately tries to break it? X-P 08:31:04 who's breaking what? 08:31:34 Well, "take advantage" is more accurate. 08:31:41 that's the nature of the game 08:31:57 if i don't do it someone else will :> 08:31:58 You should be taking advantage of the other code, not the scoring mechanism :P 08:32:05 oh, right, that 08:32:07 !bfjoust charge >->+>->+>+>->+>+(>[+].>[-].)*50 08:32:09 i just wanted to see if it would work 08:32:14 i was mixed up in my head 08:32:21 Well, at least the scoring mechanism is basically fair now. 08:32:22 Score for Asztal_charge: 66.2 08:32:26 That is, nonrandom. 08:32:48 yeah :) 08:32:56 i appreciate your patience with our griping and your effort too 08:32:56 !bfjoust reverse_charge (<)*1000 08:33:06 Score for GregorR-L_reverse_charge: 0.0 08:34:52 0.0 08:34:54 o.o 08:35:03 u.u 08:36:22 i own the hill again :> 08:40:00 !bfjoust abc ++++>[<(+>)*20(-<)*20>] 08:40:19 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_abc: 13.4 08:44:25 how do you get a 0 on the hill now? do you need an equal number of wins and losses? 08:44:37 presumably 08:46:13 !bfjoust abc2 (>>[-])*10 08:46:40 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_abc2: 19.7 08:47:09 heh i made keke2 a little better and might have done more, but primarily it just did better against my own warriors :P 08:47:23 !bfjoust abc3 (>>[-])*10(<<[+])*10 08:47:25 OK, I implemented the more-points-for-more-wins mechanism. 08:47:34 oh oh 08:47:40 maybe i'm about to lose the lead :) 08:47:41 I think I effed up the range of scores somehow :P 08:47:42 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_abc3: 8.2 08:47:53 No, your score is now OVER FOUR THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAND 08:47:58 lol 08:48:03 report not updated 08:48:47 gregor i just wanted you to know that i love you. in a totally not-gay way, of course. 08:50:22 I'm certainly not updating it in EgoBot until it works X-P 08:50:29 Yeah, all the scores are much lower now. 08:50:30 ah, right 08:50:33 Which I guess is unsurprising. 08:50:39 Highest score is 50.94 08:50:46 yeah 08:50:51 A score of 100 would mean that you won /every/ round, in /every/ configuration. 08:50:53 Which is absurd. 08:50:53 well, 08:51:02 oh, so it's based on percentage? 08:51:07 Yes. 08:51:15 cool 08:51:24 am i still winnning? :D 08:51:25 !bfjoust loop [+][(>>[-])*10(<<[+])*10-] 08:51:55 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_loop: 12.3 08:52:00 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.(-.)*512>(+)*128.(++.)*512)*15 08:52:14 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 16.0 08:52:41 !bfjoust loop [+][(>>[-])*10(<<[-])*10-] 08:53:11 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_loop: 12.3 08:53:13 +(>(-)*128.-.--.---)*29 08:53:28 oops 08:53:37 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.--.---)*29 08:53:49 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 21.4 08:54:02 !bfjoust juggernaut +>>>>>>>>(>(-)*128.-.--.---)*21 08:54:13 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 20.5 08:54:24 !bfjoust juggernaut +>--->--->>>>>>(>(-)*128.-.--.---)*21 08:54:34 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 21.3 08:54:38 !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*10000(-)*10000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000 08:55:10 aw don't make me add all the blink defenses back in 08:55:11 :P 08:55:12 Score for Patashu_waiter: 33.3 08:55:21 !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(+.)*129)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2 08:55:31 don't think juggernaut's gonna work 08:55:33 Score for Patashu_lazy: 20.4 08:55:37 guess it doesn't matter, ALL my warriors beat waiter 08:55:37 hmm 08:55:38 huh 08:55:41 !bfjoust lazy >+>->++>-->--->+++>+>->((-.)*128>)*21 08:55:53 Score for Patashu_lazy: 11.9 08:56:04 !bfjoust stall (+)*100000 08:56:43 Hrm, I just killed the cache. 08:56:46 While you were doing that :P 08:56:49 Didn't pay attention :P 08:56:49 haha 08:56:50 :o 08:56:51 mein cache 08:56:57 time to see the new results 08:56:58 Now I have to kill both, 'cuz that'll be effy. 08:56:58 okay I can wait 08:57:02 * myndzi crosses fingers 08:57:43 !bfjoust reverse_charge (<)*1000 08:57:50 OK, now you'll have to wait again. 08:58:20 is it possible to make a program that does worse than < 08:58:28 by causing a turn 0 syntax error? 08:58:40 ) 08:58:41 maybe 08:58:42 :P 08:58:50 Yeah, it detects some syntax errors. 08:59:00 And that gives FULL points to the opponent. 08:59:16 excellent 08:59:23 only if the syntax error is encountered? 08:59:26 points for invalid code wasn't so cool 08:59:54 You'd have to read my increasingly-horrifying code to get all the possibilities :P 09:00:05 Score for Patashu_stall: 14.3 09:00:05 Score for GregorR-L_reverse_charge: 0.0 09:00:20 !bfjoust stall (+-)*100000 09:00:27 oh wow, that's a very different hill now 09:00:35 oh 09:00:37 Score for Patashu_stall: 6.5 09:00:37 what changed this time? 09:00:45 woah 09:00:47 oh 09:00:49 I see what it does 09:00:53 aw 3pass came down 09:00:55 but still i like 09:00:58 The points are now floating-point :P 09:01:02 score deflation 09:01:08 win% 09:01:32 interesting that defend7 does better than 9 now 09:01:37 poor 2/3 weave 09:01:37 T_T 09:02:07 !bfjoust stall ((+)*1001-)*100 09:02:41 Score for Patashu_stall: 14.3 09:02:52 so what does a +, - or 0 indicate on the grid now? 09:03:06 Patashu: It's a 0 iff every configuration ties. 09:03:36 what if it's 10 +s, 10 -s and a tie 09:03:48 Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. 09:03:48 !bfjoust loop (+-)*10000(+)*50[(>>[-])*10(<<[-])*10-] 09:03:54 lol 09:03:56 More accurately, the number of wins equals the number of losses. 09:03:57 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_loop: 5.6 09:04:00 Wins - losses = 0 09:04:16 so it's just indicating more wins than losses or vice versa 09:04:20 yeah, 09:04:20 could there be a degree of gradation to it? 09:04:23 net gain or loss 09:04:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:04:47 Patashu: YOU PEOPLE ARE NEVER HAPPY 09:04:52 !bfjoust charge >->+>->+>+>->+>+(>[+].>[-].)*11 09:04:52 lol 09:04:58 could there 09:05:00 not DO IT NOW 09:05:00 Score for Asztal_charge: 18.7 09:05:01 AUGH 09:05:07 lol 09:05:39 bouncing permutations of rushpolarity off egobot 09:06:01 D-8 09:06:11 int4erestingly 09:06:15 2/3 weave now has positive points but low score 09:06:19 I kinda don't want to see rushpolarity go :P 09:06:27 oh oops 09:06:29 I reset the age huh? 09:06:38 there is no age 09:06:42 yes there is 09:06:43 look in the folder 09:06:47 sort by date modified 09:06:47 :) 09:07:00 that doesn't quite count ;p 09:07:10 nobody's looking there! hehe 09:07:21 hah 09:07:34 Is somebody running them via query? 09:07:41 yes 09:07:42 me 09:07:46 want me to stop for a mom? 09:07:52 Ah, that explains why report.txt keeps disappearing :P 09:08:01 ya 09:08:02 like I said 09:08:05 trying permutations of rushpolarity 09:08:12 yeah, here's another one of those complaints: why clear it before you're ready to write to it? :P 09:10:43 myndzi: ../report ../egojoust ../cache *.bfjoust > report.txt 09:11:37 mk, i guess that's just what happens eh 09:12:57 ah 09:13:05 it's so nice to see improvements come gradually 09:13:09 rather than in bumps and jerks 09:15:54 OK, I'm done hacking at EgoBot for the moment. 09:19:02 okay, after searching the local space I've determined this is better 09:19:04 !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*20>(-)*19>(-)*19>(+)*19)*2>([(+)*19[-]](+)*21>[(-)*19[+]](-)*21>)*11 09:19:12 Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 53.5 09:20:12 next time on #esoteric, Patashu tweaks 2/3 weave 09:20:50 ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF DRAGON BALL Z... 09:21:40 I guess when mine loses, it *really* loses :( 09:21:47 haha 09:21:49 yeah that's the weird thing now 09:21:54 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!"). 09:22:11 you can get lots of shallow losses or a few real bad ones 09:22:15 anyway bbl 09:47:48 lol did we end up with practically the same program? 09:53:18 oshi 09:53:18 16 69.88 12.60 myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust 09:53:20 :D 09:53:45 one loss and one tie 10:27:26 Sweet. 10:28:18 How does the scoring work now? 10:28:26 I should update the file ... 10:28:35 Yes, you should ;-) 10:41:08 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES 10:42:12 What's X 10:42:41 Whoops :P 10:42:47 :-P 10:42:59 That was supposed to be M. 10:44:43 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:47:43 So, totally confused by that? :) 10:48:51 Nah, makes sense 10:50:38 Heh, I just momentarily confused myself with the 0-100 thing. 10:50:54 Then I remembered that since you can't win against something which itself won against everything, you can never gain the >1 worth. 11:16:02 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:31:33 rushpolarity lost a whole bunch? 11:31:39 was it beating slowrush before and now losing to it? 11:37:33 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 11:50:37 optimizing 2/3 weave 11:51:29 umm? 11:51:29 lol 11:51:34 now it's getting 0 for everything o.O 11:51:43 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*23>(-)*24)*2>>>>(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*5>[(+)*21[-]](+)*5>(+)*5) 11:51:48 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 0.0 11:51:53 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*23>(-)*24)*2(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*5>[(+)*21[-]](+)*5>(+)*5) 11:51:59 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 0.0 11:52:02 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*23>(-)*24)*2>>>>(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*5>[(+)*21[-]](+)*5>(+)*5) 11:52:07 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 0.0 11:52:35 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*10>[(+)*20[-]](+)*10>(+)*10)*10 11:52:42 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 14.9 11:52:47 well hang on 11:53:03 OH I know why 11:53:07 it cut the *10 off :b 11:53:13 durrrr 11:53:16 interp's okay 11:53:28 PARSE FAILURE :P 11:53:49 copy and paste EPIC FAIL 11:53:54 brought to you by epicfailblog dot com 11:54:04 now to continue mutatin' 11:55:28 seems to be hovering at 20 now 11:56:55 best I can manage atm: 11:56:55 !bfjoust 2_3weave (>(+)*23>(-)*24)*2>>>>(>[(-)*20[+]](-)*6>[(+)*21[-]](+)*6>(+)*6)*10 11:57:02 Score for Patashu_2_3weave: 20.1 11:58:24 ... wasn't it doing better before? :P 11:58:39 before you changed it to return how many times it won 11:58:46 what 2/3 weave does 11:58:48 is get lots of shallow wins 11:58:59 as opposed to programs which get deep wins against a few programs they counter 11:59:23 so it looks good on the grid but has a shitty score 11:59:37 funny huh 12:02:40 Ah 12:02:55 Yeah, looks very good :P 12:03:04 0.1 points X-D 12:03:29 okay mm 12:03:31 I'm thinking now 12:03:44 that I want to use two 'repeats' for attacking; one that leaves decoys after it moves but later one that doesn't 12:03:53 because if the tape's that long it's probably long passed its opponent 12:03:56 that'll make it attack faster 12:05:54 odd. it doesn't appear to help at all (for rushpolarity) 12:07:51 okay, rushpolarity is now at score 41.45 points 4.76, 2/3weave is now at score 19.16 points 2.67 12:08:42 stall is a worse version of waiter so I might kill it 12:08:56 !bfjoust stall < 12:09:12 Score for Patashu_stall: 0.0 12:10:28 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]---] 12:10:43 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 15.2 12:15:27 bf joust codegolfing 12:17:13 defend6 is by far the oldest program (since last revision) on the hill 12:17:47 !bfjoust parisian_monastery (>->+)*5[>[-[+]]+] 12:17:56 Score for GregorR-L_parisian_monastery: 28.2 12:17:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:18:05 It might be that I just plain suck at BF Joust :P 12:18:16 But nobody'll play FYB, so what else am I to do? X-P 12:18:21 8th on the hill yeah you're terribad 12:18:22 haha 12:18:24 FYB... 12:18:55 http://codu.org/eso/fyb/README 12:19:08 I know what it is 12:19:08 :) 12:19:26 do I need to enclose my posts in XML tags indicating the tone to be read in? 12:19:33 YES 12:19:58 I guess logicex-2 has a four-year streak as king of the hill. 12:20:01 That's pretty sweet :P 12:20:39 !bfjoust parisian_monastery (>->+)*5[>[(-)*5[+]]+] 12:20:46 Score for GregorR-L_parisian_monastery: 30.8 12:20:55 Ooh la la 12:20:56 think about whether you want lots of little decoys or fewer but bigger ones 12:21:13 Well, I'm thinking more about actually sinking the enemy flag :P 12:21:20 Which is perhaps not the real goal. 12:21:33 step 2. do it before they do it to you 12:22:26 there only seem to be so many variations on the basic program though 12:22:52 !bfjoust parisian_monastery (>->+)*5[(>)*2[(>)*2[+]]+(>)*2[+]]-] 12:22:58 Score for GregorR-L_parisian_monastery: 0.0 12:23:04 Yeaaaaaaaaaaah go me :P 12:23:14 Dangling ] 12:23:16 I think 12:23:28 can we get multithreading in bf joust? 12:23:57 !bfjoust parisian_monastery (>->+)*5[(>)*2[(-)*5[+]]+(>)*2[(-)*5[+]]-] 12:24:04 plx 12:24:05 Score for GregorR-L_parisian_monastery: 0.0 12:24:05 Patashu: No, use FYB :P 12:24:12 lol 12:24:22 (>->+)*5[(>)*2[(>)*2[+]]+[(>)*2[+]]-] 12:26:55 what do you imagine the bombs in FYB looking like? this is an important question 12:27:26 ooh deeewiant's adding a new program 12:27:31 Woot, monorail owns 12:27:33 :-) 12:27:51 haha 12:27:55 they're all slight tweaks on the 12:27:58 1. set decoys 12:28:17 2. use a loop like [(-)*n[+]] 12:28:26 3. optionally set decoys while attacking 12:28:26 theme 12:28:53 Oh, is that what slowrush's success is based on? :-P 12:29:02 well not all 12:29:03 Funny, I tried it pretty much by accident 12:29:29 hmm haha 12:29:32 slowrush looks more or less like rushpolarity now 12:30:29 Patashu: Most programs, since FYB has threads, employ multiple styles. My favorite style was logicex, or Logic Extermination, which looked for all logic in the program (loops, etc) and set bombs there, in the hopes that the logic would increase the chances of those spots being hit. 12:31:28 Simpler programs just looked for the enemy program counter and set a bomb in hopes that it would go there again, or focused more on defending ones one code than attack. 12:32:06 hmm 12:32:11 FYB cell arithmatic is mod 17? 12:32:28 Yeah >:) 12:32:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:32:40 only powers of 2 are holy cretin 12:32:40 !! 12:32:45 these go to 17 12:32:45 etc 12:32:58 The reason for 17 was solely that that's how many commands I had :P 12:33:05 . and , are both nops already 12:33:08 you need a dedicated nop? 12:33:45 I had some rationale maybe, or maybe it was just to make 17 instead of 16 to bother you. 12:34:00 it was in case you decided to make . output values to your opponent later 12:34:01 >:) 12:34:02 btw 12:34:12 if you turn one half of a loop into a bomb in FYB 12:34:17 where does the other half send its pointer? 12:34:22 same place or is it ineffectual? 12:34:30 Alright, monorail is #2, I'm happy with that 12:34:35 If there's no match, it's just like a nop. 12:34:47 Which is why you have to place a bomb just /after/ the loop :P 12:34:51 ah 12:35:04 so a pointer in a :; loop can escape its loop if you change one half of it 12:35:07 It's also the third-smallest program on the hill (unexpanded) :-P 12:36:05 Patashu: Sure 12:36:39 Deewiant: 46.33 is pretty darn good in the new scoring system. 12:36:52 53.96 is better :-P 12:37:12 But I guess I have the best score/size ratio 12:37:12 Why yes, yes it is :P 12:37:19 score/size haha 12:37:30 It's not the size that matters, it's what you do with it. 12:37:42 Hence score/size ratio ;-P 12:42:04 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:46:55 op-code idea for FYB: swap program buffers but not code buffers :P 12:46:57 so the anti defect 12:52:58 -!- dbc has joined. 13:05:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:07:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 13:24:56 2/3 weave is now at 18.24, rushpolarity was at 36.76 now is 42.52 13:24:56 whee 13:35:11 Aww, you dropped monorail 13:37:00 :o oh nooo 13:38:12 so fun fact 13:38:20 putting even one - or + on every cell you pass over vastly improves your score 13:38:30 since it forces any loop to be entered at the very least once 13:38:37 which takes them more cycles then it takes you 13:42:13 !bfjoust juggernaut >+>+>->->+>+>->-(>(-)*128.-.+)*29 13:42:19 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 18.6 13:43:25 -!- Corun has joined. 13:54:04 -!- selador has joined. 14:22:03 hum... 14:23:13 [->-<] would be p[1] = p[1] - p[0]; right? For some reason this ends up as p[1] = 255 * p[0] + p[1] ... That can't be right... 14:23:50 or is it? 14:25:10 is p[0] a negative number? 14:25:30 Patashu, it is an unsigned char. 14:25:47 the BF - is represented as += 255 14:26:20 if it's mod 256 arithmetic 14:26:25 aren't those two expressions equal? 14:26:29 the pseudocode ones 14:26:39 Patashu, that is what I'm trying to figure out 14:26:50 adding 255 is like taking away 1 14:26:52 if it's mod 256 14:26:53 yes 14:27:06 I'm totally with you that far 14:27:32 are you using a bf optimizer? 14:27:42 Patashu, I'm developing one 14:27:45 aah ;) 14:28:04 Patashu, but I'm not sure x - y = x + 255y (mod 256) 14:28:13 which is what the code above seems to indicate 14:28:17 okay let's pretend that every time you hit 256 14:28:19 you go back to 0 right? 14:28:22 so if you add 256 that's like adding 0 14:28:24 Patashu, yes I know 14:28:32 adding 257 must be like adding 1 14:28:36 so...adding 255 is like subtracting 1 14:28:38 the issue is that it turned into multiplication there 14:28:41 adding x*255 is like subtracting x 14:28:44 hm 14:28:55 Patashu, sure about that? 14:28:57 ok 14:29:02 I have no reason to doubt it 14:29:17 Patashu, I suck at this sort of math :/ 14:30:45 anything else? 14:31:14 hm? 14:31:20 did you have any other questions 14:31:40 not right now at least 14:31:47 p[1] = p[1] + 255*p[0] is equivalent to p[1] = p[1] - 1*p[0] in mod 256 arithmetic 14:31:57 and yes it seems to be correct 14:32:11 doesn't seem very logical to me :/ 14:32:25 well let's take p[1] = p[1] - 1*p[0] 14:32:36 now let's imagine that for every 1 in p[0] we also add 256 14:32:42 that's a nop right? since it's mod 256 arithmetic anyway 14:32:57 but we turn it into p[1] = p[1] - 1*p[0] + 256*p[0] 14:33:07 or p[1] = p[1] + 255*p[0] 14:33:18 and if you can go one way you can go the other way 14:33:20 hm 14:33:39 ok seems to make sense. Of a kind 14:33:45 you agree that adding or subtracting 256 any integer amount of times is going to be a nop? 14:33:51 so you can implicitly do it in any expression anywhere in your code 14:33:57 and all it does is change the way it looks 14:33:58 yes 14:35:01 hm. So y = x*256 is same as y = x in mod 256 14:35:41 Patashu, is that so? 14:35:53 no 14:35:59 but y = x*256 is the same as y = x*0 14:36:05 and y = x*257 is the same as y = x*1 14:36:05 ah yes 14:36:10 right :) 14:36:13 and y = x*258 is the same as y = x*2... 14:36:20 indeed 14:36:36 this makes complete sense now :) 14:37:05 because if you add an extra k 256s for every 1 you find in x you do nothing 14:37:07 again and again 14:38:52 so what would [+>+<] end up as... p[1] += 256-p[0] right? (of course followed by setting p[0] to 0 afterwards) 14:39:55 hmm 14:40:15 you add 1 to p[1] (256-p[0]) times 14:40:21 p[1] += 256-p[0] 14:40:22 yes that's correct 14:40:37 * AnMaster wonders what his compiler turns that out as now 14:42:30 hm that turns into p[1] = 255 + p[1] - p[0] though 14:42:35 which looks very odd 14:42:50 that one surely can't be right 14:42:53 Patashu, ^ 14:43:13 wait yes 14:43:15 it is? 14:43:19 hang on 14:43:30 if p0 = 255 it executes once 14:43:31 right? 14:43:38 so it would add 1 to p1 14:43:45 ah it is off by one indeed 14:44:10 p[1] = 255 + p[1] - p[0] should be p[1] = 256 + p[1] - p[0] ... 14:44:14 yes 14:44:22 which is equiv. to what you said it ought to be 14:44:50 Patashu, I wonder how C will handle that since p is unsigned char* ... 14:45:41 wait. it will promote to p[1] and p[0] short since 256 isn't in the range of unsigned char 14:45:42 right? 14:46:12 and uh... then *truncate* it back to unsigned char when assigning? 14:46:14 simple 14:46:16 remove the 256 14:46:18 since it's a nop anyway 14:46:18 ;) 14:46:29 so now it's p[1] -= p[0] 14:46:44 and we know it's right because we've deduced it logically earlier, that any addition or subtraction of 256 is a nop 14:46:59 even if it doesn't immediately click 14:47:04 Since this is all mod 256. 14:47:07 ya 14:47:56 Patashu, well... that is a bit messy, since I don't have -= anywhere in the compiler. I work with all positive values due to implementation language issues (that is: the compiler is coded in erlang, which only has bignums, so all calculations are done mod 256 manually, working with negative integers make it a bit more complex) 14:48:09 hm 14:48:41 += -p[0] ? 14:48:42 ;) 14:49:00 * pikhq is reminded of interp.tcl in PEBBLE. 14:49:02 Patashu, that could actually be done! since the polynomial code does handle negative coefficients 14:49:09 pikhq, hm? 14:49:25 polynomial code? 14:49:26 Manual modular arithmetic all over the place. 14:49:30 Patashu, however it would be translated to += 255*p[0] in fact :) 14:49:37 why 255 specifically? 14:49:45 I think ur polynomial is wrong.... 14:49:53 wait, indeed it is wrong 14:50:02 or rather I am 14:50:10 proc Modvar {var} {variable memory;variable memmap;set memory($memmap($var)) [expr {$memory($memmap($var))%256}]} 14:50:11 it will end up as -1 there 14:50:16 Seem familiar? 14:50:22 :p 14:50:52 pikhq, I actually do it lazy... After all passes that can merge nodes I have a cleanup pass which goes through and mod 256s all relevant values 14:51:11 (as well as other cleanup) 14:51:32 which I admit is rather messy design 14:52:01 it was the one easiest to implement when I realised "oops, this should have been "rem 256" all over the place. 14:52:13 new code does the rem 256 though 14:52:17 mostlu 14:52:18 mostly* 14:56:27 p[1] = p[1] + 255*p[0] is equivalent to p[1] = p[1] - 1*p[0] in mod 256 arithmetic 14:56:45 wouldn't that mean += -p[0] ? is same as += 255*p[0] ? 14:56:46 because between the first and second you always add an integer number of 256s 14:56:58 hmm 14:56:58 yep 14:57:09 Patashu, so that is the answer to why 255 specifically? 14:59:11 hm 14:59:12 ah 14:59:13 k 15:08:45 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 15:26:09 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com ."). 15:55:07 -!- tombom has joined. 16:30:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:33:34 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 16:36:11 http://pastebin.ca/1442391 <-- funny mess up of mandelbrot.b 16:39:21 -!- kar8nga has joined. 16:47:03 The Font: Small button doesn't seem to be working :( 16:47:30 so i presume i'm seeing it even more messed up than it has to be 16:48:40 huh there was a badly formatted menu of fonts in the upper right corner, and _those_ work 16:49:44 Ooh, it's a pwetty buttewfwy! 16:59:03 Patashu, but I'm not sure x - y = x + 255y (mod 256) 16:59:06 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:59:07 of course it is 16:59:28 modulo arithmetic works across addition, subtraction and multiplication 17:00:45 division and powers are more subtle 17:00:53 x - y = x - y + 256y = x + 255y (mod 256) 17:06:20 wait. it will promote to p[1] and p[0] short since 256 isn't in the range of unsigned char 17:06:44 i vaguely thought C converted all chars before doing arithmetic anyway 17:07:31 or wait was this about function arguments... 17:08:28 06:47:56 Patashu, well... that is a bit messy, since I don't have -= anywhere in the compiler. I work with all positive values due to implementation language issues (that is: the compiler is coded in erlang, which only has bignums, so all calculations are done mod 256 manually, working with negative integers make it a bit more complex) 17:09:02 does erlang give negative remainders if you do remainder(negative, positive)? 17:09:22 you mean negative rem positive? 17:09:26 yes 17:09:47 oerjan, yes it does 17:09:51 ah 17:09:59 oerjan, why? 17:10:04 well yes then keeping things positive may simplify things 17:10:26 AnMaster: haskell has both rem and mod, where mod always gives positive for positive divisor 17:10:50 and then you don't need to worry about negative things 17:11:09 oerjan, iirc the semantics for rem is "whatever the compiler that compiled the VM used". So for Erlang compiled with GCC that means C99 semantics. 17:11:09 ah 17:11:18 haskell is more precise there 17:11:28 or rahter... for BEAM compiled with GCC. 17:11:38 BEAM is the Erlang VM 17:12:12 (the bit of Erlang written in C, rather than in Erlang) 17:12:43 -!- Corun has joined. 17:15:20 AnMaster: i'm redesigning expression class. it should canonicalize "(Expr[3] + 4) - Expr[3]" into 4 on-the-fly. :p 17:16:18 lifthrasiir, well I have polynomials working mostly. That is a lot simpler to implement. Just I'm fixing bugs in various other passes and such that were uncovered by adding polynomials... 17:16:34 heh. 17:16:56 i wish there were multiset in python... :S 17:17:03 multiset? 17:17:11 actually, what i needed was "frozen" multiset. 17:17:20 AnMaster: set with duplicate elements. for example, {1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3}. 17:17:40 what I do is basically "convert the 50 first loops we can convert to polynomials. Do a binary search from that. Once found which exact convert caused issues try to figure out why. 17:17:42 " 17:18:06 that's pretty hard. 17:18:11 lifthrasiir, oh? How comes? I use sets in erlang because I only want one of each. Otherwise I would use some other data structure 17:18:31 lifthrasiir, not really. Since I dump original loop and matching polynomial to stdout 17:18:39 and some other in the middle data 17:18:42 and I can diff the files 17:18:51 so, like, a list? 17:18:59 sometimes it is another pass. Where I can then do a binary search on that. 17:19:00 comex: but it's unordered. 17:19:12 sort the list! 17:19:13 ;P 17:19:18 ha! 17:19:27 anyway iirc erlang has some duplicate_set thingy 17:19:29 haven't used it 17:19:33 http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4355 17:19:34 there you go :p 17:19:38 lifthrasiir, couldn't you implement it for python? 17:20:09 actually 17:20:11 there's a real module for it 17:20:20 AnMaster: a mutable multiset is easy to implement in python, since dict already provides sufficient methods. but what if it has to be immutable? 17:20:21 sort of 17:20:21 bisect 17:20:35 lifthrasiir, copy it every time? 17:20:45 instead of making a change to it 17:20:58 lifthrasiir: a multiset is merely a dictionary with integer values... 17:21:11 AnMaster: in python, "immutable" also conveys the meaning of "hashable". 17:21:23 lifthrasiir, you can't hash other objects? 17:21:25 ffs 17:21:29 oerjan: yes, but hashable dict can be hard to make. 17:21:37 store it as a tuple 17:22:47 and just have the add method maintain sorted order 17:23:01 AnMaster: that's exactly my current method: def __hash__(self): return hash(tuple(self.items())). but i'm not sure it's dependent to implementation. 17:23:18 uh? 17:23:53 lifthrasiir, why do you need it hashable btw? Going to store it in a dict? 17:23:59 or something like that 17:24:02 as the key I mean 17:24:02 AnMaster: convert the dictionary into hashable list of items; but it depends on the order of items, and i'm not sure it's unique. 17:24:13 since it actually serves as multiset! 17:24:40 so don't use a dict, use a tuple for storage 17:24:40 for example (a + a + a) == (a * 3), and i store them as same internal format: {a: 3}. 17:24:43 I generally don't have this problem in Erlang. I can use lists as keys of dicts. I do that when simplifying polynomials 17:24:58 which is faster anyway, as you don't have to make a new tuple for every hash 17:25:42 Term = Coefficient * Variables Variables = List of 2-tuples: {Offset,Exponent} 17:25:48 comex: after some thought, i agree to you. it could be simpler using sorted list. 17:26:12 to merge 2*x + 4*x I use a dict with the list of variables as the key 17:26:17 (but i'm also not sure that tuple manipulation costs less than dict.) 17:26:22 the list is sorted before 17:26:41 (since I just merged 2*x*x into 2*x^2 and similar before) 17:27:16 I don't mean manipulation 17:27:24 hash(tuple(self.items())) 17:27:42 is going to make a new list, and then a new tuple out of it 17:27:59 every time you want a hash 17:29:32 comex: afaik in python __hash__ is called only once per object, but that could be a problem when copying objects. 17:31:06 AnMaster: anyway i'm going to remove AdjustMemory ("add" in your code) in favor of SetMemory ("set" in your code). :p 17:31:21 lifthrasiir, how will you handle ,++ or such 17:31:29 or when you don't know the value before at all 17:31:44 SetMemory[{4}, {4}+2] for example. 17:31:55 like my polynomials then 17:31:59 (instead of AdjustMemory[{4}, 2]) 17:32:02 p[4]=1*p[4] + 1*p[0]; 17:32:07 I have things like that 17:32:09 though 17:32:13 for some reason THAT one breaks... 17:32:31 and it is hard to figure out 17:32:55 hmm. 17:34:10 ok it seems to be related to the whole converted loop being: 17:34:14 [{bfn,add,0,255,undefined,undefined}, 17:34:14 {bfn,set,2,0,undefined,undefined}, 17:34:14 {bfn,add,4,1,undefined,undefined}], 17:34:17 comex: ah, i figured out why i didn't use sorted list. in python 3 cmp doesn't work on different types. 17:34:41 where that is "{bfn,Opcode,Offset,Value,StuffUsedForLoops,MoreStuffUsedForLoops}" 17:35:02 what's undefined for? just reserved? 17:35:29 lifthrasiir, default value in struct definition for bfn (which stands for bf node) 17:35:39 the second undefined contains the "body" of loops and ifs and such 17:35:50 the third is various metadata for loops and polynomials 17:35:57 and a few other instructions 17:36:10 contains stuff like what cells are modified by loops and so on 17:37:00 lifthrasiir, and the "bfn" there is just due to using a record. Internally in erlang it ends up as a tagged tuple 17:38:10 http://pastebin.ca/1442460 <-- I fail to see anything wrong there hm 17:38:17 * AnMaster goes to dump it just after that pass 17:38:20 hmph DMM leaves for vacation and the next day the site is broken in several ways... 17:38:48 oerjan, do you think it is intentional? I suspect it is some kind of practical joke... 17:38:59 and I noticed it too 17:39:02 * oerjan didn't think of that 17:39:21 well not "practical joke". wrong word 17:39:31 impractical, perhaps 17:39:41 maybe he prepared it this way 17:40:01 I could live with the font mess up.... but NOT with the broken image link 17:40:06 :/ 17:40:21 also a missing part of the navigation bar 17:40:36 heh 17:42:01 what _was_ 2317 again? it worked yesterday but i've forgotten exactly what it was 17:43:11 oh ... wait ... 17:43:26 * oerjan turned on the transcript 17:43:36 i have definitely _not_ seen that before 17:43:48 Hm... 17:44:11 12:34 < lifthrasiir> comex: ah, i figured out why i didn't use sorted list. in python 3 cmp doesn't work on different types. 17:44:15 really? 17:44:22 could i simply have forgotten to visit yesterday? no, because i _did_ read Comments on a Postcard. 17:44:34 AnMaster: something is definitely fishy 17:44:40 comex: yes. also __cmp__ is gone. 17:44:50 and cmp() is gone 17:45:00 ...why? 17:45:07 i don't know why. curious. :( 17:45:53 anyway sorting [1, (2,), [3]] etc will fail in python 3. that's why i choose not to use sorted list. 17:46:11 AnMaster: there was a different comic there yesterday, i think, although i don't remember what it was. i suppose the update _could_ have failed horribly to overwrite it 17:46:22 *in order to 17:46:30 oerjan, wasn't it the one two back 17:46:41 also yeah, this must be intentional... 17:46:49 interesting way to irritate users 17:46:52 oh wait you are right, look at the date 17:47:01 oh, it was deprecated in favor of writing 6 boilerplate methods 17:47:22 oh, 2318 is missing the date 17:47:28 while 2317 has today's 17:51:48 ok I minimised the broken diff 17:52:09 oerjan, ok. This MUST be intentional... 17:52:33 I just don't believe it would be this messed up otherwise 17:56:01 oh duh 17:56:02 found it 17:57:58 -!- selador has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042513]"). 18:00:04 oh yeah the forum reminded me there was another glitch: "Intriguingly, the previous poll isn't showing when you answer the current one" 18:00:22 and that was there yesterday too 18:01:04 this appears to be approaching astronomical improbability :D 18:01:47 oh no, DMM actually noticed that before he left 18:04:37 -!- davinci has joined. 18:04:46 hello 18:04:57 Ol 18:06:01 -!- davinci has left (?). 18:17:55 oerjan, oh? 18:18:01 oerjan, what did he say about that 18:18:20 that it was a simple typo 18:18:26 hm 18:18:27 (that was the poll error) 18:40:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:42:05 -!- ehird has left (?). 18:42:32 -!- ehird has joined. 18:49:09 00:26 pikhq: ehird: http://imgur.com/B8SqH.png 18:49:09 00:26 pikhq: Had to go cook. 18:49:11 it sez wut 18:50:09 03:05 zzo38: Hay! You told me I didn't need a e-mail address to register 18:50:09 03:05 zzo38: But now it says I do 18:50:11 03:06 zzo38: It also says I need to register and IDENTIFY to post message on ##C channel. 18:50:13 03:06 zzo38: But IDENTIFY is not a valid command and I can 18:50:15 03:06 zzo38: 't register without password/email but I don't want either of those things 18:50:17 lol— tough. also IDENTIFY is a nickserv command like register. 18:50:19 03:07 coppro: /join #freenode ← he uses telnet to irc 18:54:51 AnMaster: "DuPont Displays Surpasses Million Hour Milestone for Lifetime of New OLED Material" >100 years 18:55:15 ehird, I wonder how they tested that... 18:55:21 06:36 GregorR-L: I'm now uſing all lengþs. ← imaginary patents. 18:55:28 ehird: what the hell is that image? 18:55:46 lifthrasiir: pikhq's english shorthand system. 18:56:00 The result of being bored in high school. 18:56:04 at first glance it looked like japanese :| 18:56:09 pikhq: what does it say? 18:56:22 "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs." 18:56:27 ah 18:56:46 anyhoo since GregorR has all but obsoleted my interp by adding all legngths I won't bother working on it :P 18:56:49 *lengths 18:57:00 pikhq: how does it work? 18:57:01 And managed not to include all of my symbols, courtesy of diactrics. :p 18:57:07 ehird, what about POLARITY? 18:57:09 it also pushed my program to the bottom >:( 18:57:20 AnMaster: adding polarity is a ~3 minute job 18:57:27 so meh 18:57:31 ehird, AnMaster: And was also done. 18:57:37 hehe 18:57:38 right, then. 18:57:47 ehird: Abjad. 18:57:48 ;) 18:57:51 n vwls. 18:58:03 ehird, I guess it is because you took too long for him ;P 18:58:05 * AnMaster ducks 18:58:11 I noticed the lack of vowels; inferred only from context? 18:58:20 Deewiant: Yeah. 18:58:24 18:57 pikhq: ehird: Abjad. 18:58:24 18:57 pikhq: ;) 18:58:25 18:57 pikhq: n vwls. 18:59:19 Aside from that, it's just the Roman alphabet, simplified into 1 stroke per character. 18:59:59 What do t and h look like in isolation 19:00:19 Deewiant: T looks like the first character without the ` over it. 19:00:42 Is h always a `? 19:00:55 h looks like... Hmm. Actually, it looks closest to 'þ' written backwards. 19:01:00 AnMaster: So, looks like I'll be buying my display from DuPont. Maybe. 19:01:09 ehird, price? 19:01:13 Dunno. 19:01:24 I won't get this fancy long-lived one, just a regular OLED display. 19:01:25 フ 19:01:26 * Asztal is now known as sztl 19:01:27 No, only when with another letter. "gh", "th", "ph", etc. 19:01:37 ehird, DPI? 19:01:55 It's amusing that it looks like kana, since I didn't learn kana until a bit *after* that. 19:01:57 * AnMaster is now known as Asztal_fails 19:02:02 AnMaster: Either 163.92 or 136.6. 19:02:10 Either way, ridonkulously high. 19:02:17 ehird, .92? .6? 19:02:19 heh 19:02:20 'sztl, you mean. 19:02:22 AnMaster: Yes. 19:02:30 1280x1024 at 10" and 12", respectively. 19:02:41 (I write a ' to indicate a starting vowel, makes it a bit easier to read) 19:02:51 With DPI set accordingly in the OS, of course; that high resolution's just for extra smoothness and for media. 19:02:54 `sztl would work on IRC, I suppose 19:02:58 Not for blindity. 19:03:03 pikhq, He fails at faking nick change for all clients expect possibly xchat. 19:03:17 AnMaster: since it's impossible to do it for all clients, who carse? 19:03:18 AnMaster: True. 19:03:20 *cares 19:03:25 ehird, my point 19:03:33 who cares if he fails faking it 19:04:02 I don't care a lot about it. Just for informative purposes. 19:04:15 if I could get a -!- there, I'd do that, but I don't really know what the other clients do 19:04:27 ubuntu/gnome are really good for high-dpi displays 19:04:31 everything just works if you set the dpi 19:05:16 Huge advantage of high DPI displays: Subpixel rendering + no hinting — without any blurriness whatsoever. 19:05:25 Although you get that at about 100dpi. 19:05:50 Your "huge advantage" is my "can't tell the difference" 19:06:14 Deewiant: You're blind. 19:06:17 Why don't you go and buy a braille screen, I'm sure you'll be just fine 19:06:24 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:06:26 not having fully-functioning eyes and all 19:06:48 For this particular case I note that I actually haven't had a chance to compare 19:06:55 But I suspect it'd be like that. 19:06:58 Then your statement is very silly :P 19:07:07 It applies to most of your monitor hype :-P 19:07:18 "monitor hype"? 19:07:24 you mean... i like good displays? 19:07:27 i dont' recall hyping anything 19:07:50 "to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods" 19:08:23 o_O 19:08:38 saying that 1280x1024 is way too small = dramatic? 19:09:07 1280x1024 is kinda small unless you're talking TV set. 19:09:16 pikhq: Deewiant said it was "just fine" 19:09:19 And even then... Go for full 1920x1080? 19:09:33 yeah, it's not as if Full HD screens even cost a lot 19:09:36 ehird: Sure. In 1996. 19:09:50 you can get a 23" LCD TV w/ real 1080p for ~£200 19:09:54 ehird: Responding with "hahahahahaha" when I say it isn't is flamboyant :-P 19:09:59 and most tvs cost about that much 19:10:11 Deewiant: 512k is enough for anything 19:10:33 ehird: Eh, there's cheaper TV sets. Granted, those are at best EDTV these days... 19:11:00 [[It would be better for the "Donky" of the U.S. Democratic Party to lick the carrot.]] —North Korea 19:11:01 ehird: That style of response is flamboyant regardless of the statement. 19:11:15 Deewiant: do we agree on the definition of flamboyant here? 19:11:16 Aside: you guys have pretty damn cheap TVs. 19:11:32 ehird: "showy" 19:11:39 Deewiant: TVs are cheap. 19:11:47 Deewiant: not really the colloquial meaning 19:11:51 pikhq: Tech is expensive in finland 19:12:00 pikhq: I got a 19" TV for 199€, the next-cheapest one would have been around 299€. 19:12:01 Ah, right. 19:12:15 Jebus. 19" for 199€? 19:12:18 ehird: Fuck colloquy. :-P 19:12:30 pikhq: Cheapest TV I could find. 19:12:35 Who wants a TV 19:12:39 They're just badly-tuned monitors 19:12:39 Modulo reasonable TVs. 19:12:51 I could just about get a 19" monitor, computer and *tuner card* for that. 19:13:07 Screw you. :-P 19:13:30 Tuner cards appear to be around 90-120 € here. 19:13:33 Oh. 199€ is according to Google $281. 19:13:43 Just about? Yes, I *definitely* could. 19:14:02 That 23" with 1080p for £199 is ass-cheap. 19:14:06 I can pick up a DTV tuner for $20-$50.... 19:14:12 i should get a new monitor 19:14:34 If I skrimped, I could get a computer for another $150... 19:14:41 pikhq: 19" monitors are upwards of 100 €. 19:14:45 Maybe even $100 if I didn't bother with CPU at all. 19:15:09 -!- jix has joined. 19:15:09 And a computer on top of that will be more than the -20 to 10 € remaining. ;-) 19:15:15 ("CPU? Who needs that if it's just going to tune?") 19:16:04 19:14 Deewiant: That 23" with 1080p for £199 is ass-cheap. 19:16:06 £200. 19:16:13 ehird: No less ass-cheap. 19:16:14 Give £30 or so 19:16:24 Deewiant: Yeah, we have pretty good pricse. 19:16:24 So, yes. It would be cheaper for me to build a barebones DVR setup than it would be for you to buy a TV set. 19:16:26 *prices 19:16:28 That's a bit crazy. 19:16:42 But seriously, televisions are obsolete. 19:16:46 I've become accustomed to it. :-P 19:16:48 Simple as that 19:17:01 Nothing wrong with buying an obsolete device every now and then 19:17:02 Deewiant: Here's the ass cheap TV: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/153223 19:17:04 £230.68 19:17:15 Deewiant: = 263.38 eur 19:17:33 ehird: DVR setup FTW. If you really *must* watch TV, at least you can skip the commercials. 19:17:52 pikhq: Why even bother? Everything apart from the news is downloadable, and the news can be streamed for free online. 19:17:57 (... assuming BBC, of course.) 19:18:02 for a monitor, is is 1920*1200, 22", or 19200*1200, 24" better? 19:18:14 bsmntbombdood: the 19200. it has ten times the height 19:18:20 ehird: About the same price here, actually. I'd've expected at least 290. 19:18:21 bit of a skewed aspect ratio though ;) 19:18:36 bsmntbombdood: But, depends what you want. 22" packs the same stuff into more detail, due to packing the pixels closer. 19:18:45 ehird: You're not very likely to find 10 Mbit/s MPEG2 streams from the net. :p 19:18:46 bsmntbombdood: 24" is about 96dpi, which is what most images, etc on the interweb assume. 19:18:47 ehird: But then, £30 on top does make it less ass-cheap. :-P 19:18:54 And also, the default settings and such assume it, generally. 19:19:00 So it'll work OOTB more smoothly. 19:19:06 ... Granted, if you've got cable, you're not even getting that. 19:19:18 pikhq: Ultra-high quality is mandatory for breaking news, clearly. 19:19:32 Deewiant: I have £30 a few meters away from me, want it? :P 19:19:36 In this case, I just wanted something cheap with component inputs. 19:19:41 (well, okay, so I don't have £30 lying everywhere.) 19:19:43 (would be nice tho.) 19:19:43 ehird: Sure :-P 19:20:02 Deewiant: OK, that'll be £20 shipping, £11 handling charge 19:20:09 ehird: You're discussing the US. We think that making it possible for people to *download* shows they want to watch is EBIL!!! 19:20:18 ehird: Nothx 19:20:39 pikhq: I believe you can stream bbc news internationally 19:20:48 Or, nope. 19:20:50 I quote: 19:20:58 ehird: And what if you want to watch something other than BBC news? 19:21:08 So we'd rather use several hundred Mbit/s streaming it over the air. And over satellites. And over cables. 19:21:13 "The BBC News channel is available in the UK only. Don't forget, to watch TV online as it's being broadcast, you still need a TV License." 19:21:24 pikhq: If you want something else, it's probably not live, so download the series. In HD> 19:21:24 *. 19:21:33 ehird: Not legal. 19:21:38 Correct. 19:21:41 Thus my rant about the US. 19:21:54 Jaywalking isn't legal either :P 19:22:00 And diverging into a rant about us not using multicast. 19:22:21 TV/Radio have one architectural advantage: 19:22:28 Broadcast scales way better than streaming. 19:22:37 Because it doesn't have to do anything at all :P 19:22:43 Thus why I said multicast. 19:22:48 mm 19:23:17 With multicast, the streamer just sends out a single stream. The routers make sure the stream gets to everyone. ;) 19:23:18 [[For anyone who isn't familiar with the name "Prometeia," it is special device that chills an Intel or AMD processor down to an operating temperature of between -20°C to -30°C, with the end goal being better overclocking.]] 19:23:30 Overclockers never stop surprising me with what they will buy. 19:23:49 It's a fridge for your CPU. 19:24:08 It's also nearly 10 years old :-P 19:24:13 I've seen some overclocker that said "Screw that, that's just stupid". 19:24:25 And bought a minifridge and made that into a computer case. 19:24:27 Deewiant: Yeah, I bet it can only cool an i7 @ 4ghz to -5 under load. 19:24:32 pikhq: :D 19:24:36 I know, srsly! 19:24:39 If there's one thing overclockers are, it's DIY. 19:24:42 *DIYers 19:25:01 On the subject of crazy cooling systems... 19:25:26 http://www.zalman.co.kr/DataFile/product/RESERATOR-1-V2_01_b(0).jpg Combined pump, reservoir and... space heater. 19:25:39 ehird: stfu, that thing's awesome 19:25:45 bsmntbombdood: never said it wasn't 19:25:49 i'm considering it for my new build 19:25:53 well. two of them 19:26:00 one can only dissipate ~200W of heat continually 19:26:06 hhahahaa 19:26:11 wimpy 19:26:15 probably drill a hole in the wall, and mount it on the rarely-used stairs, though 19:26:20 diy it 19:26:23 don't want to be near two of them under load 19:26:35 bsmntbombdood: i could just buy an industrial radiator that can dissipate 200w 19:26:37 *2000w 19:26:42 and hook it up to the reserator 19:26:46 that'd be less fuss than DIYing it 19:26:52 that would be better 19:26:59 i don't think you want two pumps 19:27:06 and two reservoirs 19:27:06 bsmntbombdood: the pump is a bit wimpy, though 19:27:12 5 watts, 30litre/hour 19:27:23 otoh, anything more would be non-inaudible 19:27:36 two of them is probably quieter than replacing the pump with something louder/more powerful 19:27:49 but if I'm mounting this on the stairs it doesn't really matter :) 19:28:07 non-inaudible 19:28:10 Eg. audible 19:28:14 FireFly: shush you :) 19:28:26 bsmntbombdood: the reserator is ~8.5kg when filled 19:28:26 get a large sheet of copper, solder copper pipe on to it in a purdy design 19:28:30 mount on wall 19:28:39 6kg base rate + 2.5 litres of cooler 19:28:44 bsmntbombdood: not on this wall, kthx 19:28:51 why not? 19:28:53 the i7 and a gtx graphics card are gonna produce a lot of heat 19:28:55 and it's summer 19:29:02 25C-30C is hot enough for me as it is 19:29:07 bsmntbombdood: I'm going to mount it on the other wall 19:29:17 uuuh 19:29:21 to the side of my monitor and further forward is a wall 19:29:25 it's not like you've got more heat than fan cooling 19:29:34 beyond that wall, is air above rarely-used stairs 19:29:40 so 19:29:45 step 1. drill three holes 19:29:54 in, out tubes, and power lead 19:30:01 step 2. get brackets, mount on stair wall 19:30:04 step 3. connect it up 19:30:12 bsmntbombdood: yes, but air heating just goes out the exhaust vent 19:30:14 And no-one in your house complains? 19:30:28 it doesn't sit there 2ft high pumping out heat 19:30:32 ehird: the exhaust vent right next to you 19:30:43 bsmntbombdood: the exhaust vent on my floor, facing the wall, you mean 19:30:50 ehird: heat rises 19:30:55 no shit sherlock 19:30:56 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:31:04 bsmntbombdood: anyway, the stairs are colder. 19:31:07 also, this is cooler. ;) 19:31:16 In which meaning? 19:31:18 FireFly: weell, that may be a slight issue 19:31:26 FireFly: but, the stairs are used like once every few months 19:31:33 anyway, if it's on the other side of a wall, you can use a cheaper, active radiator 19:31:34 and it'd be too high to bash anyone 19:31:37 FireFly: also, cool as in awesome. 19:31:40 Ah 19:31:48 bsmntbombdood: the stairs are a great amplifier 19:31:51 I can hear anything that goes on in there 19:32:09 also, fans have significantly less cool factor 19:32:10 You should have your speakers there :D 19:32:12 plastic tubing is cheap 19:32:16 FireFly: heh 19:32:25 run it down to the basement 19:32:34 bsmntbombdood: yeah but if I go down that route my whole computer ends up in the basement (a basement which this flat does not have) 19:32:44 and that's so much less fun than making it silent 19:32:51 i've already got a hole drilled in my floor down to the crawlspace :D 19:32:54 for my ethernet cable 19:32:55 bsmntbombdood: one of the less practical ideas I had while thinking about this, 19:32:56 is: 19:33:02 (note that I'm one storey up in a flat) 19:33:08 -!- tombom has joined. 19:33:09 mount it on the outside wall 19:33:12 put in protective box 19:33:14 drill holes through wall 19:33:16 bsmntbombdood, that's my idea 19:33:23 bsmntbombdood: i could overclock in the winter only 19:33:23 :D 19:33:45 !bfjoust suicide < 19:33:47 there's a word for that idea, though, actually two of them. impractical; expensive :-D 19:33:51 Score for jix_suicide: 0.0 19:33:57 ehird: get a window-mounted air conditioner, and hook up a heat exchanger to the cold side 19:34:11 Suicide is more like [-] 19:34:17 FireFly: nope 19:34:24 No? 19:34:25 bsmntbombdood: maybe 19:34:26 FireFly: leaving the arena makes one lose 19:34:27 !bfjoust true_suicide ] 19:34:30 the reserator is pretty though 19:34:36 Ah 19:34:39 Score for Asztal_true_suicide: 4.6 19:34:40 !bfjoust fake_suicide [-] 19:34:47 bsmntbombdood: i'm almost totally set on a passive-radiator watercooling system, though 19:34:56 although then the coil whine from the GTX 260 up becomes an issue 19:35:00 I thought one could still win if the opponent suicided afterwards (by clearing its own flag) 19:35:02 !help 19:35:08 ehird: i thought you weren't getting a gtx 19:35:11 !bfjoust suicide fake_suicide 19:35:14 aww 19:35:15 FireFly: that's only if your program ends 19:35:17 heh, well, a syntax error loses to a <, AFAIK. 19:35:17 !bfjoust suicide < 19:35:23 Ah 19:35:23 bsmntbombdood: that was 'cuz I could passively cool a 9800gtx+ 19:35:33 bsmntbombdood: with watercooling, all those issues just - ehm - drip away 19:35:42 "coil whine"? 19:35:48 step 1, get a decent radiator, step 2, put all the components you want in the loop 19:35:50 bsmntbombdood: yeah 19:35:58 bsmntbombdood: some of the coil things on the card make a whining noise 19:36:01 apparently only for the first few months 19:36:03 or forever 19:36:05 depending on who you ask 19:36:16 Score for Deewiant_fake_suicide: 7.7 19:36:17 Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google gregor hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho num ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yod 19:36:17 Score for tombom_suicide: 0.0 19:36:17 Score for tombom_suicide: 0.0 19:36:54 Egobot, was that the one with lots of bf based commands? 19:36:55 ehird: get a 295 19:37:00 bsmntbombdood: that's mah plan 19:37:07 bsmntbombdood: maybe even two, in SLI. 19:37:12 !show bf 19:37:13 That is not a user interpreter! 19:37:15 depending on how excessive and moneybags I feel 19:37:31 ... GTX 260 ... 19:37:37 bsmntbombdood: GTX 260 and up 19:37:43 all the GTXs suffer from it 19:37:52 Deewiant: since you're the person who showed me that ssd article— do you think using an using intel ssd for an os drive, and then a stuttery-but-good-sequential-throughput SSD for a data might work well? i don't see why that wouldn't work 19:38:25 If most of your data usage is sequential then sure, I guess 19:38:29 bsmntbombdood: after all this, all I need is an anechoic chamber to enjoy it in 19:38:32 how much are you spending on this anyway? 19:38:39 and too much 19:38:49 and why not put the computer on the other side of the wall? 19:39:25 a bit less (few hundred) than $4,000 for the aircooled version ($4k was from endpcnoise.com preassembled; the rig i was going to build had some changes but would prolly come out cheaper due to no system integrator cost) 19:39:39 so, remove costs for quiet case, heatsinks, fans etc and add watercooling costs... 19:39:47 otoh, I found some ways to cut the costs down 19:39:52 it's all very much in flux 19:39:56 priority one, performance and silence 19:40:01 priority two, money i can actually afford 19:40:03 i can't imagine how you would spend that much 19:40:10 bsmntbombdood: well, I'm not going to 19:40:17 i'm doing it iteratively 19:40:28 make awesome computer, make affordable. if awesomeness is compromised, go back to step 1 19:40:33 repeat until both criteria are fulfilled 19:40:51 gtx 295 - $500, i7 extreme, $1000, 4 x25-ms, $1200 19:41:09 bsmntbombdood: watercooling costs a lot 19:41:12 expensive ram, $400 19:41:12 several hundred 19:41:24 bsmntbombdood: 12gb of expensive ddr3 is more like $1000 19:41:32 and you're only at $3000 19:41:38 Not if you do it the 8G stick way. 19:41:47 pikhq: then it's $984758934579832478293784572893467834589347238947 19:41:49 ehird: if you want to be wasteful 19:41:51 because you can't get 8g sticks 19:41:51 only 4g 19:41:57 ehird: Factorial. 19:42:13 pikhq: oh it wouldn't cost -that- much to get them invented and made ;) 19:42:51 bsmntbombdood: $3100 for cpu, gfx card, ram and 160gb x25-m 19:42:54 That includes the cost of bribing the controllers of the market to allow them to be on the market. 19:43:02 add water cooling costs, case etc and you get a bit over $4000 19:43:17 ;0 19:43:22 ;), rather. 19:43:29 conclusion: hardware is cheap. relatively. 19:43:44 http://techreport.com/articles.x/16255 19:43:49 see, that thing looks pretty cool 19:43:58 until you realize it's utterly stupid 19:44:03 * ehird clix 19:44:04 what thing is it? 19:44:07 interwebs are being slow 19:44:19 one thing that is totally stupid is any watercooling rig that isn't passive 19:44:23 total waste of money 19:44:26 ACard's ANS-9010 Serial ATA RAM disk 19:44:39 bsmntbombdood: pfft, SATA? 19:44:42 bottleneck ahoy 19:44:44 no kidding 19:44:59 [[What's more, even Intel's fastest X25-E flash drive is limited to 250MB/s reads and 170MB/s writes]] 19:45:00 you can only go up to 64gb too 19:45:05 FOCUS ON RANDOM PERFORMANCE FOR AN OS DRIE 19:45:06 DRIVE 19:45:07 RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE 19:45:09 >:| 19:45:16 so, it'll be 1000 times better to get a motherboard that can support that 19:45:32 because the processor's fastest and lowest latency connection to _anything_ is its ram 19:45:43 i wonder what nice watercooled psus you can get 19:45:51 probably not anything under 2345897234897238942389429347234 kilowatts 19:45:57 because all watercoolers are excessive amirite 19:46:18 * pikhq wants a computer with battery backed RAM. Making a RAM disk feasible. 19:46:19 :p 19:46:20 ddr2 can get 6 gigabytes/second 19:46:26 sata gets...300megabytes/second 19:46:28 hmmm 19:46:32 err 19:46:34 bsmntbombdood: sata=3gb/s 19:46:41 ehird: gigabits/s 19:46:43 bsmntbombdood: 6 gb/s soon. 19:46:47 pikhq: ups... 19:46:48 bsmntbombdood: well yeah 19:47:16 pikhq: it's very easy to do with a good operating system 19:47:40 bsmntbombdood: can the dual 1366 server mobos take two i7s? 19:47:44 i seem to recall that they only fit xeons or sth 19:47:49 ehird: you can't have two i7's 19:47:54 bsmntbombdood: "Battery backed RAM". 19:48:02 you need nehalem xeons instead 19:48:03 bsmntbombdood: you can have two xeons, why not two i7s 19:48:11 I didn't know an OS could magically make your RAM battery backed. 19:48:21 pikhq: you get a ups 19:48:31 ups tells computer when to start backing up ramdisk 19:48:33 Not the same. 19:48:38 exactly the same 19:48:47 fuck battery backed ramdisks 19:48:48 too brittle 19:48:51 ssd backed ramdisks, yes. 19:48:58 Sure, if you never shut your system down. 19:49:23 bsmntbombdood: do you know? 19:49:31 pikhq: so it takes 2 minutes to shut down, big deal 19:49:42 ehird: they don't have the appropriate bus iirc 19:49:49 ah 19:49:54 kinda lame but i don't need more than 4 cores 19:50:14 doubt the performance advantage from 8 is really noticeable apart from in things specifically optimized for it 19:50:20 if I wanna get mega parallel i'll talk to my gpu 19:50:52 [[Busting the ANS-9010 open reveals eight 240-pin DDR2 DIMM slots]] 19:50:52 ehird: Like compile jobs, encode jobs, etc. :p 19:50:57 bsmntbombdood: it isn't even fucking ddr3 :) 19:51:22 pikhq: -j6 vs -j12 isn't going to make much difference unless your project is basically dependency-free 19:51:23 ehird: it's on the other side of sata, who cares 19:51:32 pikhq: encode jobs can be done on the gpu 19:51:38 and there are products doing that in development 19:51:46 mencoder? 19:51:53 pikhq: can mencoder do that? 19:51:55 i don't know 19:52:14 mencoder can do encodes in parallel. I don't think it can do encodes on the GPU, though. 19:52:29 *Decodes*, sure, but not encodes. 19:52:53 some gpus have hardware de/encoders don't they? 19:52:57 Well, that's its problem 19:52:59 bsmntbombdood: dunno 19:53:01 buuut 19:53:07 i've seen figures using gpu encoders to mpeg4 and the like 19:53:11 basically? 19:53:17 5x faster than a multicore cpu or so 19:53:20 bsmntbombdood: All modern GPUs are TC. 19:53:27 pikhq: he knows _that 19:53:27 _ 19:53:30 And have builtin decoding hardware besides. 19:53:30 but specialization = moar speed 19:54:00 but yeah, gfx card of radeon 4850 or above caliber vs high-end gigahertzy 4-core cpu 19:54:06 gfx cards kicks the cpu's ass at encoding video. 19:54:20 bsmntbombdood: oh my god 19:54:25 bsmntbombdood: their test system for that ddr drive 19:54:27 bsmntbombdood: [[Processor Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.4GHz]] 19:54:30 If you've got an encoder for said graphics card, yes. 19:54:33 TIME MACHINE TIEM MACHINE 19:54:34 *TIME 19:54:36 ehird: STAB. 19:54:45 P4? Jeeze. 19:54:50 [[Memory size1GB (2 DIMMs)]] 19:54:52 1 GIGA BYTE 19:54:54 it was written in 2009, too 19:54:59 no excuse for that 19:55:00 [[Graphics Radeon X700 Pro 256MB with CATALYST 5.7 drivers]] 19:55:02 In 2 DIMMS! 19:55:04 oh this shit is just piling up the power 19:55:12 catalyst is up to 9.something :D 19:55:20 I've got a system better than that. And it's low-end 3 year old hardware. 19:55:21 wow, xp service pack 2! 19:55:23 TWO! 19:55:28 yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 19:55:32 The test systems' Windows desktop was set at 1280x1024 in 32-bit color at an 85Hz screen refresh rate. Vertical refresh sync (vsync) was disabled for all tests. 19:55:38 ahahahahah 19:56:20 hahahahah: 19:56:21 I've got a lower refresh, but that's because my LCD's somewhat cheap. 19:56:26 bsmntbombdood: http://techreport.com/r.x/acard-ans9010/worldbench-overall.gif 19:56:37 bsmntbombdood: RAID-0ing two of those ramdisks? 19:56:38 But man. I outspecced their test system 3 years ago. 19:56:42 only 8 points better than a x25-m 19:56:44 And I was buying *old hardware*. 19:56:56 ehird: OTHER END OF SATA 19:56:59 end of discussion 19:57:00 160gb for cheaper than 16gb and the same performance hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 19:57:01 bsmntbombdood: i kno 19:57:02 w 19:57:04 it's just so silly 19:57:07 pikhq: they're prolly using a crt 19:57:20 ehird: Yeah. 19:57:25 Thus 85 Hz. 19:58:51 ehird: they didn't raid0 two of them 19:58:57 ehird: each one has 2 sata interfaces 19:59:02 bsmntbombdood: oh lawd 19:59:11 * ehird closes article, too retarded 19:59:29 bsmntbombdood: also, I'm not sure I should get a 295 19:59:39 bsmntbombdood: it's two gpus 19:59:50 bsmntbombdood: it is probably more effective to use two of the best single nvidia gpus 19:59:51 yeah 19:59:55 "Now the GTX 295 is a bit of a weird combo. See, it has the memory volume and frequency of two GTX 260 cards yet the raw shader processor horsepower of two GeForce GTX 280 cards. " 19:59:59 gets more memory power too 20:00:07 280 is discontinued though 20:00:09 so 275 20:00:18 2x275 is at least as good as a 295 20:00:22 and more effective for cooling etc 20:00:40 the sad thing is, with a one line command, i can have a ramdisk half the size of theirs that is much cheaper and a zillion times faster 20:00:48 indeed 20:01:05 literally, a zillion times 20:01:33 One line command? 20:01:40 /dev/shm seems to exist without me trying. 20:01:44 :p 20:01:53 bsmntbombdood: ooh, there's a better single gpu than the 275 20:01:55 a 285 20:02:00 2x285 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 295 20:02:04 probably comparable power usage too 20:02:31 DISADVANTAGE OF WATER COOLING: First it drains your pocket, then it allows you to drain your pocket. 20:02:46 Then your pocket shrivels and dies. 20:03:52 bsmntbombdood: on the 295: "you can rest assured that when these two GPU's are fully utilized the card can peak towards 289 watts power consumption" 20:03:54 ouch 20:04:54 bsmntbombdood: if I get 2x285, you have to buy me crysis, okay? 20:05:02 otherwise that's just a waste ;) 20:05:51 pikhq: mount -t tmpfs -o size=8G tmpfs /mnt/faster-than-you 20:06:15 bsmntbombdood: 8G is a bit big if you only have 12G of ram 20:06:31 Mem: 12040 11888 152 0 7022 3344 20:06:31 -/+ buffers/cache: 1520 10519 20:06:43 bsmntbombdood: well sure but then you're left with only 4 20:06:49 i'd recommend a 4G ramdisk 20:06:53 so you have 8G left 20:06:57 Only 4G of RAM! Whatever shall you do with so little 20:07:00 bsmntbombdood: Fair enough. 20:07:47 but if you are backing it up it might be easier to use a ram device 20:07:52 because then you can just dd it 20:08:23 Deewiant: Die? 20:08:27 I sure would! 20:08:47 what's the differences between the buffers and cached line anyway? 20:09:26 bsmntbombdood: kernel reserves a fuckton of memory for usage later 20:09:36 buffers/cache line subtracts that from the usage 20:09:44 so you can know what's actually being used 20:10:26 no,,,, 20:10:37 the first line 20:10:50 bsmntbombdood: wait whut? 20:10:51 "buffers - 7107; cached - 3360" 20:10:55 oh. 20:10:56 dunno 20:12:32 bsmntbombdood: yep, 285 SLI kicks the shit out of a 295 20:12:37 http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3501&p=2 start of benchmarks 20:12:38 orly? 20:12:41 -!- inurinternet has joined. 20:12:42 yep 20:12:45 even on ATI-lovin' games 20:12:55 hmm 20:13:00 same as a 280 sli on that though 20:13:02 which is odd 20:13:18 Ah. 20:13:21 Ah, wow. 20:13:21 i think it's a waste of money either way 20:13:22 http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/gtx285launch_011509005146/18001.png 20:13:28 95 FPS at 2560x1600 4xaa. 20:13:34 That's slightly ridiculous. 20:13:38 slightly 20:13:40 *scrolls to crysis* 20:14:00 ohmagad. 20:14:04 http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/gtx285launch_011509005146/17996.png 20:14:09 that's just ridiculous 20:14:15 22 FPS! 20:14:20 ... although how come the gtx 280 beats the 285? 20:14:26 It doesn't 20:14:31 Deewiant: I'm talking about the sli configuraitons 20:14:34 *configurations 20:14:43 ehird: The difference is so small I'd chalk it up to error 20:14:47 yeah, prolly 20:14:52 ! 20:15:00 Deewiant: ps your card only gets 18fps haha looooser 20:15:09 i'm not seeing an i7 motherboard that supports more than 24 gb of ram 20:15:14 Like there's a difference between 22 and 18 :-P 20:15:40 bsmntbombdood: i'm not seeing a consumer use-case that requires more than 24 gb of ram 20:15:58 I'm not seeing a consumer use-case that requires more than 4 GB of RAM 20:16:00 ehird: Then you haven't seen the latest line of games! 20:16:11 Deewiant: it's ok to be a little excessive 20:16:20 pikhq: oh, and that stupid sata ramdisk does have a battery good for about 4 hrs 20:16:26 RAMSuckerShootShootShoot alone requires 16GB 20:16:40 GregorR-L: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 20:16:59 GregorR-L: does it require a quad-SLI of gtx 295s too? 20:17:02 maybe a render farm on the side 20:17:11 It's "recommended" 20:17:47 i don't think you can have more than 4 gpus 20:17:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:18:05 bsmntbombdood: why not 20:18:17 because sli doesn't support it 20:18:18 bsmntbombdood: Heh. 20:18:26 bsmntbombdood: lame 20:18:32 quad-SLI of gtx 285s, then 20:18:46 but the Asus Mars can be quad SLI'd. 20:18:53 that's 8 in total 20:18:58 "The GeForce GTX 295 comes with a 289 watt TDP (peak wattage). Since your motherboard can only deliver 75 watts, you'll need to hook it up to a PSU" 20:19:03 Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally?!!?!?!?237836248761238123 20:19:04 (and 16GB of VRAM) 20:19:22 Asztal: ah, it's two gtx 285s? 20:19:28 pretty much, yes 20:19:35 amazing 20:20:01 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 20:20:38 hmm 20:20:44 how much faster is gddr? 20:20:45 ehird: Most new GPUs these days need to be hooked up to a PSU. 20:20:50 why not use it for core? 20:20:52 Deewiant: thus my sarcasm 20:21:02 bsmntbombdood: what we need is thin clients + 5 billion lines of fiber-optics to communicate w/ the thick servers 20:21:04 OK 20:21:12 cooling vs silence: SOLVED. 20:21:35 ehird: *shrug* 20:21:42 just put a dvi and usb cable through the wall 20:21:44 SOLVED. 20:22:25 bsmntbombdood: yeah i could totally not hear a 4x asus mars sli + 2x nehalem xeons @ 4ghz + 2x 1200watt psu in another room 20:22:33 everyone knows that walls block all noise entirely 20:22:46 -!- tombom_ has joined. 20:22:59 This picture rated X for violence. 20:23:11 this picture rated x for xtrem 20:23:13 e 20:23:57 This picture rated R for Romance 20:24:21 this picture rated p for people having intercourse 20:26:18 This picture rated G for Gore. 20:26:30 this is what 137dpi looks like: 20:26:37 http://imggur.com/RAORj.png 20:26:39 er 20:26:40 http://imgur.com/RAORj.png 20:26:42 (typed out of vm) 20:26:57 err wait 20:27:12 that's what 164 dpi looks like 20:27:16 Resize picture-viewing window to be 10" :P 20:29:35 if you have a 96dpi monitor, 20:29:47 * GregorR-L stabs ehird's eyes out. 20:29:48 750x600 is the right size 20:29:52 GregorR-L: what 20:29:53 That's what 0 dpi looks like. 20:30:05 GregorR-L: See my note about resizing. 20:30:59 ........................... 20:31:06 GregorR-L: What. 20:31:14 That had nothing to do with any of that, I was just poking your eyes out so you can see what 0 dpi looks like. 20:31:21 Oh. 20:31:23 Oh. I see. 20:31:26 Very clever. Har har. 20:32:05 ehird: fan noise, mostly 20:32:19 bsmntbombdood: Wut? 20:32:25 bsmntbombdood: and yeah 20:32:30 but the fans needed to cool that shit = huge 20:34:13 GRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN 20:34:36 shrug 20:35:20 Þis picture rated Þ for gratuitous uſe of þorn. 20:35:31 gratuitous amounts of pornography 20:37:17 pix 20:37:33 bsmntbombdood: new cooling system 20:37:35 Dear me, I say, the pornography in this picture would have been acceptable 10 minutes ago, but now it's just gratuitous. 20:37:42 your system goes in a thin box 20:37:44 and is moved to finland 20:37:49 cables are connected to it underwater 20:38:00 or perhaps antarctica 20:38:04 latency's lower from finland 20:38:29 GregorR-L: However, it is alſo gratis. Surely þat's important‽ 20:38:56 one day I'm going to start talking in real, bona-fide olde english 20:38:59 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 20:39:02 and you're all going to be FUCKED 20:39:06 meter fourically 20:39:15 -!- inurinternet has joined. 20:39:40 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:39:40 -!- tombom_ has changed nick to tombom. 20:39:53 It'll be difficult for you to say "esoteric programming language" in "bona-fide" Old English. 20:40:20 GregorR-L: esoterice language of the magicke movinge stones 20:41:40 GregorR-L: no? 20:42:18 interest 20:42:21 interesting* 20:42:32 Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum, þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. 20:42:44 lifthrasiir, Adding polynoms both made the generated code better and worse at the same time... Trying to fix back the cases where it is now worse 20:43:05 mostly due to other optimisation passes knowing more tricks for the old nodes... 20:44:46 bsmntbombdood: i am jealous of you. you and your noise-carelessness. 20:44:52 if only I could be that desensitive :P 20:45:09 (*insensitive?) 20:45:29 wait, the reserator pushes 300l/hr not 30l/hr :-D 20:45:49 Hwaet! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum, theod-cyninga, thrym gefrunon, hu ða aethelingas ellen fremedon. <-- care to translate 20:45:58 AnMaster: Sure: 20:46:14 AnMaster: "Listen! We have heard of the glory of the Spear-Danes, of the kings of the people, in days of yore, [and] how those princes did deeds of glory." 20:46:27 hmh 20:46:27 From Beowulf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_language#Beowulf 20:46:29 mhm* 20:46:40 I'm clearly going to have to ask for translation a lot from now on... 20:46:58 how loud is a waterblock? 20:47:15 bsmntbombdood: a good one? Uh, 0dB. 20:47:27 Probably bad ones too. 20:47:32 It's pumps that make noise. 20:47:53 bsmntbombdood: I mean, it does nothing. 20:47:57 so put the pump somewhere else 20:47:58 It doesn't push anything, it just is. 20:48:02 ehird: turbulence 20:48:06 bsmntbombdood: Yes, that's what I'm going to do 20:48:09 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 20:48:13 By mounting it on the wall of the stairs 20:48:14 http://imgur.com/RAORj.png <--- the image metadata says it is 72 dpi... 20:48:16 (The reserator) 20:48:22 AnMaster: That's irrelevant; what dpi is your display? 20:48:31 I'll tell you the appropriate resolution 20:48:36 ehird, 86 iirc. 80-something anyway 20:48:50 ehird, and I'm using gimps "not pixel for pixel" mode 20:49:04 so if metadata was correct it would show as right size 20:49:09 AnMaster: Set gimp to a-pixel-is-a-pixel, then resize it to 671x600. 20:49:10 so yes it is relevant 20:49:21 AnMaster: Set gimp to a-pixel-is-a-pixel, then resize it to 671x600. <-- doing it that way is broken :P 20:49:34 And it'll look right (modulo blurriness due to your monitor's dpi being lower than what the image was designed for) 20:49:44 AnMaster: Blame ubuntu's screenshot too 20:49:45 l 20:50:18 AnMaster: Set gimp to a-pixel-is-a-pixel, then resize it to 671x600. <-- that doesn't keep the aspect ratio. 20:50:28 AnMaster: Just do it, I know it'll work :P 20:50:36 I worked it out and everything 20:50:37 for 671 gimp suggests 537 20:50:40 which is very much off 20:50:45 Hm, wait 20:50:48 I think I got it the wrong way around 20:51:07 AnMaster: 671.54 pixels TIMES something. 20:51:19 AnMaster: For a more clarcut one, make it 600 second-dimension. 20:51:24 And let it choose the first dimension. 20:51:32 For perfect results, get out a ruler :P 20:51:35 750x600? 20:51:44 ehird, for perfect results use correct metadata :P 20:52:00 AnMaster: 671x537 20:52:06 Get it to as close as that as it'll be happy with 20:52:18 20:50 AnMaster: for 671 gimp suggests 537 20:52:19 Well then 20:52:19 Use that 20:52:36 ehird, that is what I said -_- 20:52:40 AnMaster: With linear interpolation 20:52:46 linear? huh 20:52:50 Does best for scaling down text and stuff. 20:53:02 Although at such a low dpi I'm not sure you could notice :P 20:53:51 ehird, that is a very small screen! 20:54:03 AnMaster: Measure its diagonal size 20:54:05 It should be 10" 20:54:12 And yeah, 10" is small. Netbook-size. 20:54:25 ehird, about 25 cm? 20:54:34 AnMaster: yes 20:54:36 AnMaster: But it'd be a lot better on the actual thing. 20:54:40 It's for a laptop; you have it a lot closer. 20:54:44 It's high-dpi, so it's sharper. 20:54:46 ehird, are you still getting that speed monster too 20:54:46 etc 20:54:52 AnMaster: That's the main priority 20:55:03 The netbook requires a sufficiently high DPI OLED display; so come back in a year or something 20:55:17 AnMaster: The speed monster is what I'm watercooling w/ that gigantic passive radiator. 20:55:38 ehird, heh 20:56:13 ehird, the pump will still be noisy 20:56:14 bbiab 20:56:18 AnMaster: Nope. 20:56:27 AnMaster: The 5 watt pump in the Reserator is inaudible. 20:56:37 Even moreso if you add a drop of washing up liquid (seriously) 20:56:47 AnMaster: Also, I'm mounting it on the wall of another room. 20:56:51 (The stairs opposite this room.) 20:58:08 bsmntbombdood: btw, the same basic idea as watercooling is used in heatpipe heatsinks 20:58:15 zalman totally no noise is basically watercooling sans the water 20:58:20 with the case as the radiator 20:59:24 ehird: not 20:59:30 bsmntbombdood: howso 20:59:50 there's a phase change inheat pipes 20:59:59 i said basically 21:00:07 also bsmntbombdood uh no 21:00:09 that's a loop heat pipe 21:00:15 != heat pipe 21:00:21 huh? 21:00:35 bsmntbombdood: regular heat pipes are single-phase 21:02:07 no 21:02:17 wikipedia said it therefore it is true. 21:02:21 how would that even work 21:02:39 wait, that was talking about another thing 21:02:45 even so, heatpipes != phase 21:03:31 yes 21:03:37 that's what a heatpipe is 21:03:46 your mom 21:05:54 i wonder how many watercooled psus there are 21:06:17 i've only seen 1 or 2 21:06:58 bsmntbombdood: well you just need a fanless psu 21:07:02 and put a waterblock on it 21:07:19 http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=665 21:07:21 bad idea 21:07:27 bsmntbombdood: that one's submerged 21:07:29 which is überlame 21:07:29 there are hot heatsinks 21:07:32 uberlame? 21:07:35 yes. 21:07:35 more like ubercool 21:07:39 i hate submersion :) 21:07:52 bsmntbombdood: also, why bad idea 21:07:56 it's just like cooling a hot cpu 21:08:06 you'll fuck it up 21:08:10 a cpu has a single heatsink 21:08:14 there's tons in a psu 21:08:26 there are psus designed to run fanlessly 21:08:31 w/ some airflow 21:08:37 putting a waterblock on them would run fine 21:10:13 hmph 21:10:18 Silverstone's max fanless psu is 450w 21:10:30 lame as a lame thing 21:11:10 * ehird looks around some more 21:11:15 what's wrong with submersion? 21:11:22 bsmntbombdood: dunno, just don't like it 21:11:50 seems pretty ideal to me 21:11:59 bsmntbombdood: also, that psu has way too high wwattage 21:12:00 *wattag 21:12:00 e 21:12:12 doesn't even look to be 80% efficient 21:13:39 * ehird calculates power usage for his rig-o-matic 21:15:18 344watt @ 85% cpu tdp, 90% load, 0 capacitor aging 21:15:33 w/ 100% tdp, 100% load 402w 21:15:53 that but w/ 20% capacitor aging = 482w 21:16:20 if we say gtx 295 instead of 285, and same settings as last, 566w 21:16:29 so i only need 500w 21:17:08 bsmntbombdood: so 1700w is amazingly wasteful&excessive. 21:17:14 for, well... anything. 21:23:31 bsmntbombdood: 'pparently with a zalman reserator you still need one low-rpm case fan 21:23:33 i don't see why though 21:23:41 as long as you put absolutely everything that makes any heat into the loop 21:24:43 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 21:26:39 bsmntbombdood: any idea why? 21:36:40 you can't put everything that makes heat in the loop 21:36:50 bsmntbombdood: why not 21:36:52 or you end up like this: 21:36:55 northbridge, ram, gpu, ... 21:36:59 perfectly possible. 21:38:57 bsmntbombdood: your google is slow 21:38:59 you should grease it 21:40:00 yeah, i can't remember what it was called 21:40:04 bsmntbombdood: what was it? 21:40:26 a setup where he put a waterblock on every single heat producing component 21:40:32 what happened 21:41:05 here we go 21:41:06 http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=744914 21:41:23 it worked, it's just totally ridiculous 21:41:36 bsmntbombdood: well i don't mean everything that produces heat 21:41:45 everything that produces heat that would actually need a heatsink or airflow of any kind 21:41:58 i really don't see why you'd need a case fan 21:42:05 just about everything needs to be cooled somehow 21:42:45 bsmntbombdood: northbridge, gpu, gpu ram, cpu, ram, psu 21:42:49 and you've covered most everything 21:43:08 ehird: southbridge too, and the power circuitry for the cpu 21:43:22 bsmntbombdood: do those make enough heat to need any sort of cooling? 21:43:26 i'd imagine the heat would just waft off 21:43:33 they have a heatsink on them 21:43:40 bsmntbombdood: leave that on, then 21:43:44 -!- psygnisf_ has quit ("Leaving..."). 21:43:48 sinks need airflow 21:43:53 bsmntbombdood: put a waterblock on, then 21:44:04 bsmntbombdood: btw. 21:44:06 that gets really impractical really fast 21:44:07 yes they need airflow 21:44:13 but your case almost certainly has some holes in it 21:44:23 i highly doubt it needs more than a trickle of air moving about aimlessly 21:44:23 and 2 120mm case fans are quiet 21:44:30 it's just cheaper and easier to do that 21:44:40 yes. they're quiet. but if you're gonna get a fan, you might as well aircool 21:45:07 1 psu fan, 1 cpu fan, 1 gfx card fan, 1 intake, 1 exhaust = 5 fans; if you get really good 120mm fans, barely more audible than 2 fans 21:45:07 http://www.overclockers.com.au/images/monolith/DSC02981-600.jpg 21:45:14 "The top of the pump after running for a few hours got really damn hot, so i decided to cool it." 21:45:14 :P 21:45:25 the attraction of watercooling, to me, is running without any fans. 21:45:42 bsmntbombdood: the pump's in a cold room 21:45:44 for me 21:45:56 bsmntbombdood: and as I said: 21:45:58 http://www.overclockers.com.au/images/monolith/DSC03035-600.jpg 21:45:59 21:44 ehird: but your case almost certainly has some holes in it 21:45:59 21:44 ehird: i highly doubt it needs more than a trickle of air moving about aimlessly 21:46:09 that's what happens when you try to watercool everything 21:46:21 i'm pretty sure you could just poke out the exhaust fan grill on the back of your case 21:46:25 and let the air flow by itself 21:46:32 for such minor heatsources as what you said 21:46:56 bsmntbombdood: no? 21:47:01 hdds also get pretty hot with no airflow 21:47:13 bsmntbombdood: i'm putting my data hd in a fanless enclosur 21:47:14 e 21:47:16 100% thick copper 21:47:21 also, you can buy HD waterblocks 21:47:57 did you read that thread? 21:48:00 AnMaster: Also, I'm mounting it on the wall of another room. <-- heh 21:48:04 bsmntbombdood: i'm reading it 21:48:15 he made his own hdd waterblocks 21:48:22 bsmntbombdood: right well, you can buy 'em 21:48:24 ehird, I want 100% passive cooling. 21:48:28 heat pipes 21:48:31 AnMaster: zalman totally no noise 21:48:35 AnMaster: but the pump is inaudible 21:48:37 ehird, no fan at all? 21:48:38 way more so than any fan 21:48:47 AnMaster: a reserator system can have no fan 21:48:49 I'm almost certian 21:48:51 that's my goal 21:49:00 AnMaster: and yes, zalman tnn = case is radiator, heatpipes 21:49:01 reserator? 21:49:10 AnMaster: giant radiator + reservoir + pump 21:49:12 fanless 21:49:19 is it a brand name or? 21:49:23 AnMaster: it's made by Zalman 21:49:40 ah so that explains why all google results seemed to be about a specific product 21:49:42 AnMaster: disadvantage is that it can't dissipate too much heat (so put two of them together), and it heats the room 21:49:49 for the latter... 21:49:56 ehird, all cooling systems heat the room 21:49:59 or somewhere else 21:50:00 yes 21:50:01 but this moreso 21:50:03 ANY COOLING SYSTEM HEATS THE ROOM 21:50:05 GODDAMN 21:50:07 ehird, hm 21:50:10 no, not moreso 21:50:10 bsmntbombdood: YOU CAN REPEAT AnMaster 21:50:11 WELL DONE 21:50:19 and "moreso" didn't mean that 21:50:32 unless you use a peltier 21:50:32 but fact is, an air-based system won't be a gigantic space heater like the reserator 21:50:36 ehird, what about only heatpipes... 21:50:48 that's what totally no noise does. it cannot cool anywhere near as much as WC 21:50:49 and passive heatsinks 21:50:59 ehird, of course it can't cool as much! 21:50:59 ehird: yes, it will 21:51:02 AnMaster: go forwards a bit from where my computer will be and you reach a wall. drill some holes through that wall. mount the two reserators w/ brackets on the wall. feed pipes through 21:51:09 done 21:51:18 bsmntbombdood: no, it won't 21:51:20 ehird, WC can cool below ambient temperature iirc 21:51:21 (assertion match fuck yeah) 21:51:25 AnMaster: it cannot 21:51:27 unless I'm confusing things 21:51:34 and that isn't about how much heat the radiator lets out 21:51:36 that's cpu temperatures 21:51:38 Oh wait I'm mixing it up with compressor 21:51:41 silly 21:52:04 the hardest part of mounting the reserators 21:52:07 is that they're 8kg when filled 21:52:17 do you think a radiator just magically creates heat somehow? 21:52:22 bsmntbombdood: no 21:52:26 you're not reading what I'm saying 21:52:29 ehird, you need special support structures then 21:52:30 to do it 21:52:32 ANY COOLING SYSTEM HEATS THE ROOM // you could refrigerate the room and redirect the heat outside. 21:52:36 AnMaster: yes, brackets. 21:52:39 then how will it heat the room more than air cooling 21:52:48 GregorR-L, sure. But that isn't relevant! 21:52:53 bsmntbombdood: it won't. the point is the concentration in one space, and the lack of moving air 21:52:58 AnMaster: Neither is your face. 21:53:24 GregorR, I never said that the look of my face was relevant to this discussion... 21:53:42 -!- inurinternet has joined. 21:54:18 anyway 21:54:28 (two reserators mounted above my head in an unused staircase)->coolness 21:54:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21:54:36 (two reserators sitting in my room)->coolness 21:56:03 bsmntbombdood: so nyah. 21:56:14 nyah, i say 21:56:15 NYAH 21:56:41 oerjan, http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/archive.html is messed up too 21:57:18 ehird, got a good pic of that reserator? 21:57:28 AnMaster: yep, sec 21:57:40 AnMaster: http://www.zalman.co.kr/DataFile/product/RESERATOR-1-V2_01_b(0).jpg 21:57:48 it's the big metal tower with the fins, in case you're confused. :p 21:58:10 (that * 2) + wall-mounting + drilled holes in walls = silent, heatless water cooling from my position 21:59:46 -!- inurinternet has quit. 22:00:04 -!- inurinternet has joined. 22:00:10 well 22:00:12 'part from coil whine 22:02:43 hey bsmntbombdood 22:02:52 http://www.feser-one.com/site/popup_image2.php?pID=322 22:02:53 18.75"x5.85"x4.10" (LxWxH) 22:02:57 dissipates 2000 watts 22:03:18 AnMaster: you mean that empty space at May 16, pushing everything out? 22:03:23 what temperature? 22:03:28 bsmntbombdood: err 22:03:31 it dissipates 2000 watts 22:03:33 oerjan, mm 22:03:43 bsmntbombdood: as in, your system can go to 2000 watts of heat 22:03:50 and it'll dissipate it into the air successfully 22:03:54 a reserator manages 200w 22:03:55 ehird, whoa 22:04:03 uhhuh 22:04:05 ehird, is it the 8 kg thing 22:04:07 at what temperature 22:04:08 no 22:04:17 the 8kg is 6kg reserator + 2.5 litres of water 22:04:30 bsmntbombdood: ... do you understand what i'm saying? 22:04:56 ehird, how do you top up the water in it... 22:05:07 AnMaster: you don't really have to top it up 22:05:12 but to replace... drain it 22:05:13 open it up 22:05:15 pour water in 22:05:17 close 22:05:19 mhm 22:05:20 run it for a whil 22:05:21 e 22:05:22 use 22:05:34 AnMaster: hm, 2318 shows up in the correct place in the themed archive 22:05:35 bsmntbombdood: 2000 watts of heat = 2000 watts of heat 22:05:36 run it for a while <-- ? 22:05:40 a radiator can't magically remove heat 22:05:45 oerjan, oh? 22:05:52 AnMaster: if you turn on your computer while the tubes are empty it could overheat 22:05:59 before the water gets to it 22:06:00 under Steve and Terry, as expected 22:06:02 oerjan, I'm actually suspecting this isn't intentional any more... 22:06:06 so you run just the watercooling for a while 22:06:14 ehird, true 22:06:57 err 22:07:11 grammar fail above 22:07:33 obviously 22:07:46 grammar is so failure 22:07:50 bsmntbombdood: but for a regular room I imagine dissipating 2000 watts would make it burn you if you touch it 22:08:01 or at least sting a lot 22:08:06 can't be more precise than that :) 22:08:18 ..which is too hot for your cpu 22:08:24 errrrrrrrm 22:08:30 bsmntbombdood: it's the radiator heating the air around it 22:08:36 no change to cpu temps. 22:08:38 2000 wasps, on the other hand... 22:08:46 it's just where the hot water goes... 22:08:56 if the radiator is hot enough to burn, the water going through it is, and so the cpu is too 22:09:13 bsmntbombdood: well 22:09:20 some cpus give up to like 900 watts of heat 22:09:26 so i may be overestimating 22:09:29 /shrug 22:09:35 maxing out a 2,000 watt radiator would be hard 22:09:38 900 watts? 22:09:40 it's just how much it can theoretically disperse 22:09:45 bsmntbombdood: according to a quick google 22:09:48 seems excessive 22:09:49 dunno 22:09:55 but anyway, it's just a theoretical maximum 22:09:59 what cpu dissipates 900watts? 22:10:10 dunno 22:10:23 not possible 22:10:34 yeah 22:10:38 think the person saying it was a retard :) 22:10:46 you can move that much heat through something the size of a cpu heatspreader 22:11:06 and you'd need a gigantic psu 22:11:18 yeah 22:11:18 but w/e 22:11:25 who cares about how much heat it can dissipate as long as it's enough 22:13:56 bsmntbombdood: but ofc, if you're dissipating 2000 watts you'd better fucking have a fan on the radiator 22:15:14 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:22:32 "Project wants strong AI within 8 years in giant distributed system and your computer could be a part of it." 22:22:38 Gee, I sure hope it's friendly :P 22:23:20 oh i'm sure my computer _would_ be a part of it. whether i signed up or not. :D 22:23:37 Will this project make public some of its source code? 22:23:37 Yes. 22:23:38 Will this project describe how knowledge is represented in the brain? 22:23:40 No. 22:23:43 thanks, jackasses 22:23:54 "Let's completely revolutionize humanity. But first, PROFIT!!!!!" 22:24:16 Why not make public the mechanisms of knowledge representation in the brain? 22:24:16 Security is our main concern. As long as this concern is not addressed, it is in everyone's best interest that certain knowledge is restricted. 22:24:18 Boolshat. 22:25:11 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:25:40 [[We intend to build a system that has the brain capacity of all people living in the world. This way we can ensure that no one will be left behind.]] 22:25:43 NO BRAIN LEFT BEHIND 22:30:03 strong ai in 8 years 22:30:04 ok lol 22:30:34 right, so 22:30:42 they want to make a psycho MPD ai? 22:30:42 are there any 8 core opterons or xeons? 22:30:43 bsmntbombdood: i wonder if it holds that since a reserator can handle a bit over 200w of heat, two of them can handle a bit over 400 22:30:49 also, no 22:30:54 there are 6 core old xeons 22:30:54 ehird: yes 22:30:59 (old = core 2 days, iirc) 22:31:23 bsmntbombdood: hmm then 400 watts should be enough to cool i7 + gtx 295 22:31:28 i think 22:31:54 YOUR FACE ASPLOTE 22:31:54 watercooling that gtx is gonna be a bitch 22:31:59 you'll have to dissasemble it completely 22:32:06 ehird, what is this project? 22:32:10 bsmntbombdood: erm, for values of taking the heatsink off 22:32:13 AnMaster: stupid 22:32:17 ehird: there's two boards though 22:32:20 ehird, who is behind it? 22:32:23 bsmntbombdood: yeah, so I gotta detach them 22:32:28 AnMaster: stupid noname company 22:32:33 AnMaster: see reddit 22:32:35 I see 22:32:37 bsmntbombdood: big deal 22:32:48 bsmntbombdood: other option: 2x285 or just 1x285 22:33:07 two 285's will be far easier i think 22:33:20 bsmntbombdood: also far more expensive 22:33:26 285~=$400 295=$500 22:33:26 also, nvidia says the 295 takes 289 watts 22:33:28 *~=$500 22:33:37 +140 for the i7 = 429 22:33:43 bsmntbombdood: should be fine 22:33:52 as i said, reserator can handle a bit above 200, let's say 210 22:33:58 *2 = 420 22:34:05 so it could probably handle it 22:34:10 pushing it 22:34:12 (410 being an underestimate) 22:34:21 bsmntbombdood: or I could just get that massive radiator) 22:34:25 s/\)// 22:34:32 bsmntbombdood: or I could get 3xreserators 22:34:35 go to the junk yard 22:34:39 = 1230watt 22:34:39 get a car radiator :D 22:34:42 bsmntbombdood: nothx 22:35:08 bsmntbombdood: also, companies tend to overestimate 22:35:09 apart from intel 22:35:12 +os("\n\nYou are standing at a junction. The path north continues along the sheer\ncliff and leads to a high plateau. Directly south you can see the tangled\ntrees an 22:35:12 d vines of a small forest. In the distance, to the west, you can see\nthe small village that you now call home.\n"); 22:35:14 :) 22:35:18 it'll actually be like 390, I imagine 22:35:31 the spurious line break due to using less 22:35:31 like i said, you're pushing it 22:35:44 bsmntbombdood: lemme look at reserator's manual 22:36:34 why does everyone like micro-atx boards 22:36:37 so tiny 22:36:54 bsmntbombdood: cuz it's tiny 22:37:02 i like to have room to work 22:37:11 people like having space. 22:37:23 most people aren't enthusiasts, or are buying a non-main pc 22:37:44 WATX for the win! 22:37:46 ;P 22:37:58 what 22:38:08 oh wtx is bigger atx 22:38:12 AnMaster: eATX nowadays 22:38:25 mhm 22:38:32 I like the name "workstation ATX" though 22:38:33 bigger is better 22:38:41 bsmntbombdood: so buy an eatx mobo 22:38:45 ehird, always liked the word "workstation" 22:38:46 :) 22:38:54 compyootah 22:39:02 :/ 22:39:02 workstation is kind of a dumb word 22:39:09 bsmntbombdood, oh? 22:39:11 bsmntbombdood: this manual is shit, it doesn't tell you how much heat it can dissipate 22:39:26 bsmntbombdood, "Sun Workstation". From the 80s. Sound so nice 22:39:30 bsmntbombdood: but i really don't want to diy :P 22:39:34 Sounds* 22:39:39 (having said that it is now inevitable, such is my life) 22:39:40 yeah, now you can execute bf programs in my counterstrike source server 22:39:49 KingOfKarlsruhe: Uh, wonderful. 22:39:51 I so want to do that. 22:39:57 "hey fagut u suk" "wel ,[.,] to u" 22:40:01 ehird: like this Egobot here 22:40:09 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:40:12 KingOfKarlsruhe, errr 22:40:32 ehird: why not? 22:40:32 oh THAT counterstrike 22:40:49 all our counters are on strike 22:40:50 it's written in the Pawn language, Soucemod 22:41:14 bsmntbombdood: more fuss & the reserator looks pretty & mounting a separate rad/pump would sort of be a pain and also feels more like just putting the whole computer there 22:41:24 oerjan, that explains why this is a while loop instead of a for one! 22:41:51 "The Reserator V2 must be used with the provided G200 coolant. The use of other coolants with the Reserator V2 can cause damage to the Reserator V2 unit, as well as the CPU and VGA jackets." 22:41:55 pfft yeah right 22:42:01 tons of people don't use the stock coolant :) 22:42:05 AnMaster: from the 80s? right, with the three ms 22:42:16 1 megapixel display, 1 megabyte of ram, and 1 megabit of network 22:42:18 ms? 22:42:21 ah 22:42:34 ehird: just put the computer in there 22:42:34 bsmntbombdood, and a whopping 25 MHz CPU! 22:42:41 bsmntbombdood: exactly, I don't want to do that 22:43:01 putting a reserator makes me think "well let's just put the computer there" less than a separate pump/rad 22:43:05 psychology :) 22:43:31 get a really long daughterboard for the cpu 22:43:36 n 22:43:37 o 22:43:38 and just put the cpu across the wall :P 22:43:51 bsmntbombdood, up for some compiling again? 22:43:57 sigh 22:44:17 AnMaster: buy your own i7 :) 22:44:21 ehird, I wish! 22:44:31 AnMaster: what‽ you would support EVIL MARKETING‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ 22:44:39 I am shocked, shocked 22:44:43 http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/LostKng.b.c.gz 22:44:47 lostkng? 22:44:49 ehird, I wish I had that money... 22:44:49 that's no benchmark 22:44:56 even a naïve interp can start it fast 22:44:58 try mandelbrot 22:45:01 lostking _again_? 22:45:05 ehird, but I can't compile it 22:45:05 seriously 22:45:07 locally 22:45:12 GCC OOMs 22:45:15 as I said before 22:45:16 AnMaster: use clang 22:45:17 AnMaster: what flags 22:45:21 bsmntbombdood, yes my compiler is much better now 22:45:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:45:39 bsmntbombdood, -march=k8-sse3 -O2 ? 22:45:41 bsmntbombdood: -march=i7 just to make him suffer :) 22:46:18 ehird, and I pretty much hit the limit to what I can do to mandelbrot. A few more things. But that is it 22:46:28 there is no limit 22:46:37 AnMaster: it's only using a gigabyte of ram right now 22:46:44 ehird, well what I can see "AHA here we can optimise" 22:46:55 whoa, your compiler is better now 22:46:58 bsmntbombdood, oh? 22:47:01 only took 51 seconds to compile 22:47:03 -!- inurinternet has joined. 22:47:05 bsmntbombdood, nice 22:47:19 bsmntbombdood, I do polynomials now too 22:47:23 for add/set 22:47:32 huh? 22:47:37 http://filebin.ca/bztuxu/a.out 22:48:08 608K LostKing-new.O2 22:48:08 1,2M LostKing.O2 22:48:09 btw :P 22:48:17 (I renamed from a.out) 22:48:32 yeah, that's pretty good 22:48:40 bsmntbombdood: i think the best solution if it's >420w heat output is 3 reserators 22:48:47 O2? 22:48:51 could handle >600W of heat 22:49:02 ehird: that's ridiculous 22:49:04 to chain 3 22:49:07 build your own 22:49:18 bsmntbombdood: i don't want to build my own 22:49:18 a reservator is like $200 22:49:20 ehird, didn't you say 2000 W+ 22:49:23 s/+// 22:49:24 AnMaster: miscalculated 22:49:29 ehird, oh 22:49:38 bsmntbombdood: a dollar per watt 22:49:43 pretty good value ;) 22:49:59 FireFly, yes? 22:50:08 FireFly, -O2 22:50:14 as opposed to the -O3 one 22:50:24 do you want -O3 too? 22:50:31 bsmntbombdood, no need 22:51:03 bsmntbombdood, currently I have lots to do on the new polynomial code... Since lots of other passes doesn't fully understand it... 22:51:15 but this is enough to make sure that it runs 22:51:21 and isn't buggy 22:51:25 bsmntbombdood, thanks a lot 22:52:11 http://filebin.ca/wnygct/a.out -O3 22:52:28 bsmntbombdood: i'm sure that a reserator can dissipate more than 200W 22:52:43 iirc it can do most things under 300W, someone said 22:52:50 so if we say 250, 2 of them can dissipate 500W 22:52:55 which is fine for a 420W heat system 22:53:09 http://filebin.ca/euzhf/a.out -Os 22:53:13 -Os is only half a meg 22:54:05 bsmntbombdood: ha, apparently some of the best standalone radiators only do like 180-580w 22:54:07 *250 22:54:10 w/ fans 22:54:17 ehird: point a house fan at it 22:54:18 brb 22:54:19 608K LostKing-new.O2 22:54:19 612K LostKing-new.O3 22:54:19 508K LostKing-new.Os 22:54:19 1,2M LostKing.O2 22:54:19 1,2M LostKing.O3 22:54:21 back 22:54:21 bsmntbombdood, ^ 22:54:25 bsmntbombdood: no fans. at all. 22:54:30 not possible 22:54:40 the only non-passive components allowed is an HD and a pump 22:54:48 bsmntbombdood: perfectly possible 22:54:59 as long as I have a hole in the case for minimal airflow for the few minimal heat components left 22:55:08 → just take out the exhaust fan grill 22:55:09 brb 22:56:31 bsmntbombdood, you could WC cool the HD maybe 22:56:41 sure you can 22:56:43 but you shouldn't 22:56:50 bsmntbombdood, why not? 22:57:21 hdds are more than sufficiently cooled with a slow fan 22:57:36 bsmntbombdood, that isn't passive 22:57:46 neither is watercooling 22:58:01 bsmntbombdood, yes. I want heatpipes + ssd 22:58:12 TRUE passive computing 23:07:08 damn 23:07:16 1366 pins on an i7 23:07:21 wtf do you need all of those for 23:07:28 QPI iirc 23:09:17 wikipedia says that takes 84 pins 23:09:31 bsmntbombdood, memory controller too 23:09:37 on die 23:09:44 yes 23:09:49 but it needs to connect to memory 23:11:10 alright, so that's 240 * 3 23:11:22 that takes most of it then 23:11:44 then there is power, and various other things 23:15:04 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:15:33 -!- nooga has joined. 23:16:07 AnMaster: jag hittar en himmelsk drog 23:16:24 that's not english 23:16:26 ... 23:16:33 bsmntbombdood, it is broken Swedish 23:16:41 IF ENGLISH WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR #ESOTERIC 23:16:51 GregorR, :D 23:17:17 AnMaster: smygande 23:17:20 -!- darthnuri has joined. 23:17:31 Plain English is the best language ever 23:17:42 ehird: In case you didn't notice, I made egojoust use all lengths and polarities. 23:17:46 except for that English is unplain 23:18:00 nooga, like GregorR's? 23:18:15 uhm 23:18:33 or have he stopped using the silly script? 23:18:39 I stopped :P 23:18:43 grammar fail 23:18:44 he stopped ;p 23:18:46 -!- coppro has joined. 23:18:52 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 23:18:57 GregorR, why? 23:19:08 AnMaster: It started bothering me at least as much as everyone else :P 23:19:15 my English is totally broken, but idc 23:19:16 hah 23:22:08 [00:16:07] AnMaster: jag hittar en himmelsk drog 23:22:15 Wouldn't that be correct swedish? 23:22:23 hittar jag ... ? 23:22:30 FireFly, well, just strange I guess 23:22:34 in that context 23:22:40 "hittade" would make more sense 23:22:41 Bork bork bork spaghetti bork bork bork. 23:22:46 wouldn't it? 23:22:57 AnMaster: it's from a song by Kent 23:22:58 ;p 23:23:03 Uh 23:23:10 Depends on the 23:23:15 the? 23:23:23 tense 23:23:25 nooga, by why? 23:23:28 who* 23:23:35 Couldn't remember the english term :P 23:23:38 Had to wiki it 23:23:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9d3JqXr7fg that shit 23:23:56 FireFly, What is the Swedish term for it now again 23:23:58 :D 23:24:00 my brother is addicted to them 23:24:49 tempus :P 23:25:07 Time to sleep 23:25:12 -> 23:25:30 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:26:53 AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnr0HPt5f0 this is quite nice 23:27:16 going to bed too 23:27:27 huh 23:27:31 huhu 23:27:36 it's early 23:36:50 23:17 GregorR-L: ehird: In case you didn't notice, I made egojoust use all lengths and polarities. ← yes, so I stopped working on my interp 23:37:11 22:58 AnMaster: bsmntbombdood, yes. I want heatpipes + ssd ← tnn, stfu 23:37:28 ehird, tnn? 23:37:30 ehird: Whaaaa, why? 23:37:54 GregorR-L: uh cuz yours does what mine was gonna? 23:38:05 AnMaster: zalman totally no noise 23:38:09 heatpipes + case is radiator 23:38:11 guess what? 23:38:11 Yours was going to have proper expansionlessness :P 23:38:17 it can't run a non-low-powered system 23:38:24 so stop obsessing over it 23:38:26 ehird, hm 23:38:31 ehird, still nice :) 23:38:37 no 23:38:38 not really 23:38:39 it's rubbish 23:38:49 watercooling is passive modulo pump 23:38:51 The word "rubbish" is garbage. 23:38:51 ehird, consider a recording studio 23:39:12 AnMaster: recording studio people use quiet air cooled and watercooled pcs 23:39:16 AnMaster: do you know how silent a pump is? 23:39:21 a good one 23:39:33 inaudible to the human ear from just a tiny distance away, that's how queit 23:39:36 *quiet 23:39:40 quieter than any fan 23:40:29 The pumps built into the human body are nearly silent while inhabiting that very human body. 23:40:42 (Like how useless my commentary is?) 23:40:46 ehird, what about space. 23:40:55 AnMaster: space? what? 23:40:55 you couldn't use fans there 23:41:00 oh, that space 23:41:08 AnMaster: what about it 23:41:10 so use a pump instead 23:41:17 ehird, satellites 23:41:20 so use a pump instead 23:41:24 they don't 23:41:25 but seriously, what? 23:41:37 AnMaster: space is 4 kelvin 23:41:40 they use heatpipes and pel-wahtever-elements a lot of he the time 23:41:42 good job needing cooling in that 23:41:53 you don't mean directly in space? gee, then your argument's rubbish 23:41:55 ehird, um... the sunny side gets very hot 23:42:00 ... no shit 23:42:14 ehird, so "you don't need cooling" is very wrong 23:42:23 in empty space 23:42:26 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:42:39 bsmntbombdood: gtx 285 = 204W 23:42:41 ehird, vacuum is a good insulator too. 23:42:49 ehird: that's odd 23:42:51 bsmntbombdood: = 344W total w/ i7 23:43:01 well not perfect vacuum of course 23:43:02 bsmntbombdood: 2 reserators would handle that and yawn as a sideproject 23:43:48 i admit, though, that it would be nice to be able to handle a gtx 295. 23:44:10 ehird, is that nvidia or ati? 23:44:14 nvidia 23:44:16 ah 23:44:27 ati cards tend to be a little less hot iirc 23:44:28 a little 23:44:30 but, no thanks 23:44:32 ehird, I thought they called them "geforce 9000" and such iirc 23:44:34 uh 23:44:41 AnMaster: up to the 9800gtx+ 23:44:50 but their high end gaming cards are named gtx 2?? 23:45:00 gtx 260, gtx 275, gtx 285, gtx 295 23:45:02 is the current range, iirc 23:45:04 ehird, great... I remember when it was simple Geforce 3 Geforce 4a 23:45:08 s/a$/ 23:45:09 and so on 23:45:17 wait, there's also a gts 250 23:45:23 the s presumably stands for shitty 23:45:28 but they list it with the gtxes 23:46:05 bsmntbombdood: i like how this started with "stfu the reserator pwns" and is now "dude the reserator sucks diy it" 23:49:15 ? 23:49:55 bsmntbombdood: 23:49:56 19:25 ehird: http://www.zalman.co.kr/DataFile/product/RESERATOR-1-V2_01_b(0).jpg Combined pump, reservoir and... space heater. 23:49:58 19:25 bsmntbombdood: ehird: stfu, that thing's awesome 23:50:00 to 23:50:08 22:49 bsmntbombdood: build your own 23:51:03 bsmntbombdood: i have a portable radiator/space heater behind me. think i should rip out the radiator and do it ghetto-style? :D 23:52:15 yes 23:53:06 bsmntbombdood: THAT WAS A JOKE :( 23:53:14 bsmntbombdood: it probably can't even radiate much 23:53:47 bsmntbombdood: ...right? 23:53:56 dunno 23:54:08 i mean, it only has 3 heat settings. 23:58:10 just take a hose, and throw away the waste water 23:58:21 bsmntbombdood: i thought you said horse 23:58:34 bsmntbombdood: also, um, that's kind of expensive 23:58:41 i don't want to be refilling it every day :D 23:58:52 use a hose 23:59:02 it also, bsmntbombdood, begs the question of what to hose it on to. 23:59:17 a water outlet 23:59:23 lol 23:59:34 bsmntbombdood: yer joking... right? 23:59:46 ... 23:59:52 bsmntbombdood: i mean in general 23:59:55 with the whole idea of using a hose.