00:00:00 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 7.4 00:00:02 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*6(>[+])*20 00:00:05 Score for leonid__lols: 21.9 00:00:19 !bfjoust isthata128 (>)*9((+)*128>)*21 00:00:22 Score for ais523_isthata128: 5.0 00:00:30 !bfjoust king (([-])>)*20[<-] 00:00:33 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 0.0 00:00:41 heh, it lost to everything but boring 00:00:48 lance.c:120: warning: control may reach end of non-void function ‘run_match’ being inlined 00:00:49 lol wut? 00:00:53 which is strange, I expected it to beat defend6 00:00:57 i wonder what that means 00:01:05 ehird: it's like control may reach end of non-void function 00:01:09 right 00:01:12 but the fact that it's inlined makes it worse 00:01:12 i got one of them too :) 00:01:14 or something 00:01:15 haha 00:01:21 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*6(>[+][+])*20 00:01:23 Score for leonid__lols: 22.4 00:01:25 warning: REALLY TERRIBLE SHIT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. 00:01:27 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*7(>[+][+])*20 00:01:29 Score for leonid__lols: 29.6 00:01:30 SCREAM A LOT. 00:01:33 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*7(>[+][+][+])*20 00:01:36 Score for leonid__lols: 30.7 00:01:39 .... 00:01:41 ehird, control reaches end: 00:01:47 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*7(>([+])*10)*20 00:01:49 AnMaster: yes, I know what that part means 00:01:49 Score for leonid__lols: 30.7 00:01:53 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*7(>([+])*20)*20 00:01:54 int foo(void) { /noreturn here 00:01:56 Score for leonid__lols: 27.1 00:01:58 typedef struct { 00:01:58 ins_t *prog; 00:01:59 int foo(void) { /* noreturn here */ } 00:02:00 int pointer; 00:02:01 that 00:02:02 } warrior_t; 00:02:03 *wonders if a warrior consists of anything else* 00:02:06 AnMaster: I know. 00:02:07 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*8(>([+])*10)*20 00:02:08 I was talking about the rest. 00:02:08 right 00:02:10 Score for leonid__lols: 30.7 00:02:13 ehird, the inline bit? 00:02:14 haha, I just figured out what's wrong with isthata128 00:02:15 yeah 00:02:16 no idea 00:02:19 !bfjoust isthata128 (>)*9((+)*128.>)*21 00:02:22 Score for ais523_isthata128: 27.5 00:02:27 that's better 00:02:59 ais523, idea: make a program that won't draw against itself 00:03:04 is it possible? 00:03:04 also, that beats defend6, although it wouldn't beat the parody version 00:03:05 AnMaster: you can't 00:03:12 there's no way to break symmetry 00:03:13 ais523, has it been proven? 00:03:20 AnMaster: it's trivial to prove 00:03:27 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*10(>([+])*5)*20 00:03:28 the thing's symmetrical and determinstic 00:03:30 Score for leonid__lols: 42.9 00:03:30 ais523, couldn't you make both loose at the same time 00:03:31 that's all the proof you need 00:03:32 what about 00:03:34 [-] 00:03:40 AnMaster: both losing at the same time is a draw 00:03:45 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*11(>([+])*5)*20 00:03:48 ah bugger 00:03:48 Score for leonid__lols: 16.9 00:03:52 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*9(>([+])*5)*20 00:03:55 Score for leonid__lols: 30.5 00:04:01 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*10(>([+])*6)*20 00:04:03 Score for leonid__lols: 36.3 00:04:06 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*10(>([+])*4)*20 00:04:09 Score for leonid__lols: 7.8 00:04:25 ais523, with the polarity thing it would be possible 00:04:29 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*10(>([+])*9)*20 00:04:31 in "kettle" mode 00:04:32 Score for leonid__lols: 23.5 00:04:34 !bfjoust king >[(++>++<<)*256>(+)*128<-] 00:04:36 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 18.1 00:04:44 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*11(>([+])*10)*20 00:04:47 Score for leonid__lols: 20.5 00:04:52 ais523: how would you handle looping checking the value at the end of the turn? 00:04:55 sounds like it'd be a bit sticky 00:05:13 !bfjoust king [>[(++>++<<)*256>(+)*128<-]+] 00:05:16 Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 4.2 00:05:48 ehird: ? 00:05:49 hm 00:05:54 ais523: as in, [] works 00:05:58 = ] checks value at end of turn 00:06:01 a bit boring with only two warriors at once 00:06:09 what about a massive battle? 00:06:11 ehird: hmm, I'm not sure 00:06:17 hm 00:06:23 AnMaster: more than two warriors at once sounds fun 00:06:33 ehird, not sure how to implement it though 00:06:33 but where would the flags go? 00:06:35 you'd need an N-d array 00:06:42 ehird, befunge joust? 00:06:43 v move poitner down 00:06:45 which, though it would be fun, sounds very scary 00:06:45 ^ move pointer up 00:06:46 :D 00:06:49 nescience: that's just 2D 00:06:52 4 would work, at least 00:06:53 you'd need number-of-warriors-D 00:06:58 befunge joust 00:07:00 clearly 00:07:01 ehird, ^ 00:07:01 4 programs in 2D 00:07:03 so that the flags could be at the end of them 00:07:05 AnMaster: I did that 00:07:06 Each program in its own corner 00:07:07 in ~2007 00:07:10 ehird, link? 00:07:12 BeYorFunge. 00:07:13 They run simultaneously in both directions 00:07:17 AnMaster: /old_hd/ 00:07:18 kay 00:07:22 ehird, on wiki? 00:07:25 Nope. 00:07:36 ehird, can you copy it from the old hd? 00:07:38 Although I guess that you'd have to run it for the different orientations 00:07:44 or is it dead? 00:07:46 AnMaster: The interp had a bug of some sort that I didn't find 00:07:50 ah 00:07:51 I can easily rewrite it 00:08:04 Since A might be killed by B before it can kill C, but if A isn't next to B it'd beat C 00:08:05 AnMaster: Basically, it's befunge-93, but P is p on the enemy's board, G is g on the enemy's board. 00:08:07 Hitting @ makes you lose. 00:08:16 Very simple. 00:08:18 um ok 00:08:22 that is not what I mean 00:08:24 AnMaster: Oh, I think I may have added something to track the enemy's IP 00:08:31 And what did you mean? 00:08:31 shared boeard 00:08:32 * pikhq discovered ~/pebble2 today. Good idea. 00:08:35 board* 00:08:40 like shared tape in joust 00:08:42 AnMaster: That'd cripple a lot of things. 00:09:07 ehird, it would make it different yes 00:09:19 ehird, but mirror the boards 00:09:21 like in joust 00:09:32 so 00:09:34 hmm. 00:09:35 could work 00:09:40 you have one program in each corner 00:09:48 AnMaster: but BF has a cost to move from one place to another 00:09:48 for each program it is rotated 90 degrees 00:09:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 00:09:55 with befunge, you can access any cell of the board instantly 00:09:58 no movement cost 00:10:00 so the program sees itself in the top corner 00:10:09 ehird, local and far pointers 00:10:14 ew. 00:10:18 ehird, same idea! 00:10:34 you can access the closest 4x4 or something 00:10:40 fast 00:10:51 but other ones would need a few more cycles 00:10:59 AnMaster: it's worth remembering that values above 16 take multiple cycles to represent in Befunge 00:11:05 so simply make P and G relative to the current pointer 00:11:09 and you get all that for free 00:11:09 ah 00:11:10 *above 15 00:11:13 AnMaster: it needs to have linear increases as distance increases 00:11:14 or exponential 00:11:16 ais523, that is true 00:11:18 but not 0 00:11:20 as in yours 00:11:23 (it only increases once) 00:11:31 ehird, true 00:11:51 ais523, what about making the VALUE relative then? 00:12:16 so P added/substracted a valuue 00:12:18 value* 00:12:33 or g or p rather 00:12:37 ahh, this code is very pretty 00:12:53 * ehird pats himself on the back for a good refactoring job. 00:12:58 * ehird continues w/ interpreter loop 00:13:22 ais523: in [>[-]+] vs [>[+]-], it's always a draw, right? 00:13:45 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*4(>)*6(>([+])*10)*20 00:13:49 Score for leonid__lols: 24.4 00:14:06 ehird: yes, I think a program always draws with the polarity-flipped version of itself 00:14:07 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*4(>)*6(>([+])*5)*20 00:14:09 Score for leonid__lols: 24.9 00:14:14 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*4(>)*3(>([+])*5)*20 00:14:16 Score for leonid__lols: 21.3 00:14:19 ais523: ah 00:14:28 ais523: got a just-as-simple other warrior to pit it against as a test? 00:14:30 really trivial 00:14:35 as in, you could cycle-trace it in your sleep 00:14:58 >>>>>>>>>((+)*128.>)*21 00:15:19 ais523: and you could cycle-trace it without bashing on your keyboard :-) 00:15:28 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*4(>)*3(>([-[+]])*5)*20 00:15:30 Score for leonid__lols: 24.7 00:15:38 preferably something that doesn't make you think "let's use an abbreviation"; I haven't added them yet 00:15:45 !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*10(>([-[+]])*5)*20 00:15:48 Score for leonid__lols: 27.7 00:15:58 >+++>---[>[-]+] 00:16:05 !bfjoust lols ((-)*10>(+)*10>)*10(>([-[+]])*5)*20 00:16:08 Score for leonid__lols: 27.1 00:16:29 !bfjoust lols (->+>)*10(>([-[+]])*5)*20 00:16:32 Score for leonid__lols: 20.2 00:16:45 ais523: err, pitting that against [>[-]+] isn't likely to do much good, is it? 00:16:47 it'll always beat it 00:16:49 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:16:58 ehird: what specifically do you want? 00:17:11 ais523: just a super-trivial program that's worthy to pit against [>[-]+] in my tests 00:17:15 two programs where sometimes one wins, and sometimes the other wins? 00:17:26 sure 00:17:31 or rather 00:17:36 just two programs that don't trivially beat each other 00:17:42 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[>[-]+] 00:17:44 e.g., a defense program may always beat an attack one 00:17:46 but it isn't super-obvious 00:18:07 hmm... 00:18:11 what about this: 00:18:14 >[]<[-] 00:18:19 that's pretty simple 00:18:23 and I think it beats /something/ 00:18:30 ais523: >[]? that terminates immediately, for certain 00:18:35 oops 00:18:37 the opponent can't reach there soon enough to do anything to it 00:18:38 >+[]<[-] 00:18:48 it was meant to be a simple tripwire program 00:18:48 that's clever 00:18:51 you should submit it 00:18:56 with an awful-but-might-work defence after the tripwire 00:19:03 it's too slow though 00:19:06 -] is every 2 cycles 00:19:09 * nescience shrugs 00:19:09 !bfjoust stupid_tripwire >+[]<[-] 00:19:10 !bfjoust lols ([]+)*1000 00:19:14 Score for ais523_stupid_tripwire: 20.4 00:19:14 Score for leonid__lols: 18.1 00:19:16 every other, i mean 00:19:18 !bfjoust less_stupid_tripwire >+[]<[+] 00:19:20 !bfjoust lols ([]+)*100000 00:19:21 Score for ehird_less_stupid_tripwire: 19.0 00:19:23 Score for leonid__lols: 18.1 00:19:25 (fights against [-] which is more common than [+]) 00:19:35 ehird: err, mine was designed to fight against [-] 00:19:47 if it cancels out, you're going to get a draw 00:19:48 oh 00:19:58 ais523: unfortunately, won't work 00:20:01 <[ takes too long 00:20:02 !bfjoust lols ([]+)*100(>[+])*20 00:20:02 if they go in the same direction, and you're out of sync, you may win 00:20:03 I think 00:20:04 Score for leonid__lols: 18.1 00:20:09 you have to be out of sync for that to work, though 00:20:15 so I will make it out of sync 00:20:16 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 00:20:20 !bfjoust tripwire >+[]<[--] 00:20:23 Score for ais523_tripwire: 13.4 00:20:27 heh, it did even worse 00:20:28 heh 00:20:32 ins_t *a = parse("[>[-]+]", "attack"); 00:20:32 ins_t *b = parse(">+[]<[-]", "tripwire"); 00:20:33 that's why i did [.-] 00:20:35 prime number 00:20:43 !bfjoust primewire >+[]<[.-] 00:20:45 Score for ehird_primewire: 17.6 00:20:49 hurr 00:20:49 !bfjoust primewire >+[]<[.-] 00:20:52 Score for ehird_primewire: 17.6 00:20:55 won't synch with anything but another plus-wait-wait 00:21:08 !bfjoust lols ([.]+)*10000 00:21:09 haha 00:21:10 Score for leonid__lols: 18.1 00:21:13 ais523: stupid_tripwire beats vibration 00:21:20 00:19 ais523: !bfjoust stupid_tripwire >+[]<[-] 00:21:20 that on 00:21:21 e 00:21:24 !bfjoust lols ([+-]+)*10000 00:21:26 Score for leonid__lols: 29.5 00:21:32 !bfjoust lols ([+-]+)*100000 00:21:35 Score for leonid__lols: 27.4 00:21:38 ais523: why? 00:21:39 ehird: there must be a bug in vibration 00:21:40 !bfjoust lols ([+-]+)*1000 00:21:41 or maybe in the interp 00:21:42 Score for leonid__lols: 27.4 00:21:46 !bfjoust lols ([+-]+)*100 00:21:49 Score for leonid__lols: 25.1 00:21:49 I suspect a double-timeout causes vibration to lose 00:21:51 but I don't know why 00:21:55 !bfjoust lols ([+-+-]+)*10000 00:21:59 Score for leonid__lols: 25.7 00:22:03 !bfjoust lols ([+-]-)*10000 00:22:05 maybe because its flag ends up at 0 at the end of the program? 00:22:06 Score for leonid__lols: 21.0 00:22:12 !bfjoust lols ([++--]+)*10000 00:22:15 Score for leonid__lols: 30.9 00:22:19 !bfjoust lols ([+++---]+)*10000 00:22:22 Score for leonid__lols: 24.3 00:22:27 !bfjoust lols ([+++++-----]+)*10000 00:22:30 Score for leonid__lols: 23.2 00:22:45 !bfjoust lols ([++--]-)*10000 00:22:48 Score for leonid__lols: 30.9 00:23:12 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[-(.)*6]] 00:23:16 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 39.5 00:23:32 heh, exact draw with vibration_fool 00:23:37 oops 00:23:42 I know how to massively improve that 00:23:46 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[-(.)*6]+] 00:23:49 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 41.9 00:24:07 heh, now the defence programs are eating it for lunch 00:24:14 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[-(.)*256]+] 00:24:17 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 35.7 00:24:18 ais523: do you think it'd be possible for a program to detect its opponent out of a range of, say, 5 strategies, then do one it knows to beat it? 00:24:26 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[-..-.]+] 00:24:26 just a complex checker thingy, then hardcoded strategies to jump to 00:24:29 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 59.3 00:24:32 ehird: that's how defence5 worked 00:24:41 ais523: it's *defend5 00:24:44 and it's "defense" 00:24:46 ah, yes 00:24:53 except, I think the word is defence 00:24:58 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[---]+] 00:25:01 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 67.9 00:25:07 Also, American English has kept the Anglo-French spelling for defense and offense, which are usually defence and offence in British English 00:25:09 I did not know. 00:25:15 thanks impomatic for the [---] counter-defence trick! 00:25:16 defense sounds nicer, and fits with "defensive" 00:25:24 wow 00:25:26 also, 129 is divisible by 3 00:25:26 you're at #2 00:25:28 !bfjoust lols ([---]-)*10000 00:25:30 Score for leonid__lols: 4.7 00:25:36 lack of originality 00:25:42 ais523: try ------ 00:25:45 it might do it faster 00:25:46 which means that it's pretty fast at beating the defensives 00:25:50 ehird: 6 isn't prime 00:25:53 ah 00:25:57 and doesn't divide into 129 either 00:25:59 !bfjoust lols ([--]-)*10000 00:26:01 Score for leonid__lols: 8.9 00:26:05 !bfjoust lols ([--++]-)*10000 00:26:07 Score for leonid__lols: 36.5 00:26:10 ais523: there's only one way to solve this 00:26:21 !bfjoust lols ([---+++]-)*10000 00:26:24 Score for leonid__lols: 26.9 00:26:27 !bfjoust lols ([---+++]--)*10000 00:26:27 I don't mind you submitting your own ripoff 00:26:30 can you stop spamming those variants of vibration. Isn't it enough to have one 00:26:30 Score for leonid__lols: 33.7 00:26:41 sorry 00:26:42 ais523, ^ 00:26:43 AnMaster: well, they do work different ways 00:26:46 vibration is pure defence 00:26:49 vibration_fool_faster isn't 00:26:51 ais523, sure. But the faster one? 00:27:02 ais523, what is the diff between ais523_vibration_fool ais523_vibration_fool_faster 00:27:06 and fool_faster and fool use rather different attack strategies 00:27:13 AnMaster: Hyyyyyyyyypocrite. 00:27:14 hm 00:27:16 fool is a very slow attack strategy (deliberate, to fool defence programs into suiciding) 00:27:24 fool_faster is a rather fast counter-defence attack strategy 00:27:29 ehird, I'm learned from you :P 00:27:31 it won't beat attack programs, but that's what the vibration was for 00:27:36 ehird, you were the first hypocrite 00:27:36 00:25 ais523: and doesn't divide into 129 either ← what's this supposed to mean? 00:27:41 THE ORIGINAL ONE 00:27:41 AnMaster: different strategies deserve different programs 00:27:48 ehird: the opponent's flag starts at 128 00:27:52 ais523: 3 mod 129 == 3 00:27:57 so 3 doesn't divide by 129 00:28:02 oh 00:28:05 ehird, that was what mine was all about tooo 00:28:06 do you mean 129 mod x 00:28:08 because the loop ends >+, the flag will end at 129 00:28:13 and yes, 129 mod 3 00:28:18 actually, I've thought up another improvement 00:28:26 !bfjoust vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[[[>[---]+]+]+] 00:28:29 Score for ais523_vibration_fool_faster: 73.4 00:28:31 AnMaster: instead of ---, try (-)*43 00:28:37 129 mod 43 == 0, and it's prime 00:28:45 ehird, ? 00:28:49 3 and 43 are the only two primes in the first 1,000,000 primes that satisfy that :-) 00:28:51 err 00:28:51 ais523: 00:28:54 that prevents it stalling to decoys with the value -1 00:28:57 which are rather common 00:28:59 In[11]:= Select[Prime /@ Range[1000000], Mod[129, #] == 0 &] 00:28:59 Out[11]= {3, 43} 00:29:23 i like it, i might steal that 00:29:24 :P 00:29:26 ehird: that is the sort of thing Mathematica is good at 00:29:26 !bfjoust vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[[[>[(-)*43]+]+]+] 00:29:29 Score for ehird_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition: 61.8 00:29:29 ais523: yep 00:29:41 Meh. 00:29:44 It doesn't do terribly, at leat. 00:29:46 *least 00:29:54 !bfjoust ehird_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition < 00:29:57 Score for ehird_ehird_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition: 0.0 00:30:03 oops 00:30:07 !bfjoust vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition < 00:30:09 Score for ehird_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition: 0.0 00:30:21 the problem there is that the 43 is sufficiently slow that it may be beaten by fast tripwire programs 00:30:25 right 00:30:26 and there's probably one of those on the hill by now 00:30:31 i had it in mind to do something like that 00:30:38 but hadn't gotten around to it 00:30:38 i could probably get mathematica to tell me what a good way to decrease a cell is 00:30:41 but I'd have to implement bf joust in it 00:30:46 ha 00:30:47 !bfjoust do_nothing > 00:30:50 Score for pikhq_do_nothing: 17.5 00:30:53 mathematica needs a lot better interface with the outside world 00:30:58 otherwise it's just too much rewriting 00:31:01 HOORAY, SUICIDE 00:31:13 oh great, now we have 5 versions of vibration instead of 5 versions of sit-and-wait 00:31:18 * pikhq observes that suicide isn't painless. 00:31:19 at least it gets wins 00:31:19 :P 00:31:35 nescience: stop being a malcontent, it's only three versions 00:31:41 !bfjoust lols . 00:31:41 i agree fool/fool_faster is silly 00:31:51 Score for leonid__lols: 18.6 00:31:53 scuse me, i thought i counted 5, but its only 4 00:31:55 whoa 00:31:57 (i was including ehird's) 00:31:58 I'll delete tripwire_fool if you like 00:32:00 as it's a failed strategy 00:32:00 nah 00:32:04 nescience: I set mine to < 00:32:08 so it doesn't count 00:32:13 as it'll be knocked off really soon 00:32:21 oshi 00:32:23 look at the map now 00:32:24 myndzi_slowrush still leads... hm 00:32:36 ais is gaining on me! 00:32:48 !bfjoust mzx_fool >-[>-] 00:32:50 Score for MizardX_mzx_fool: 8.4 00:33:00 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*9((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:33:01 nescience: it beats slowrush 00:33:02 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 42.5 00:33:05 in the individual matchup 00:33:07 just not overall 00:33:08 hey not bad. 00:33:21 quite 00:33:21 beats maglev and vibration_fool and stuff 00:33:29 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*11((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:33:31 though slowrush isn't very defensive, i was actually really surprised it did so well 00:33:31 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 43.8 00:33:35 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*17((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:33:38 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 40.0 00:33:41 i woke up with this idea and hacked it up, then tweaked it a couple times and it was like whoa! 00:33:41 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*15((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:33:44 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 41.6 00:33:51 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*13((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:33:54 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 40.0 00:33:57 hmph 00:33:59 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*12((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:34:01 nescience: I suspect it's because defence caught on so much that everyone started writing counter-defence 00:34:02 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 40.1 00:34:04 it's all about the metagame 00:34:08 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>)*9((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:34:10 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 41.3 00:34:12 I'm happy were have fewer of the huge programs now 00:34:31 the shorter onces are less messy, easier to understand 00:34:44 what does the score mean? 00:34:47 !bfjoust mzx_fool (>)*128[-] 00:34:50 Score for MizardX_mzx_fool: 0.0 00:34:54 lament: you get a high score by beating lots of good programs 00:34:59 MizardX: 128 >s? 00:35:04 ais523: where good program = high score 00:35:10 ? 00:35:10 the opponent would have to suicide very quickly to lose to that 00:35:12 !bfjoust what [-] 00:35:13 so if you keep recalculating... 00:35:15 Score for lament_what: 7.3 00:35:17 ehird: good program = beat lots of things 00:35:18 !bfjoust mzx_fool (>)*127[-] 00:35:19 to avoid an infinite regress 00:35:21 Score for MizardX_mzx_fool: 0.0 00:35:21 7.3? 00:35:26 at least, that's how I think GregorR's system works 00:35:30 why is the score for [-] 7.3 00:35:31 !bfjoust lols . 00:35:32 lament: "you did badly w/ other programs" 00:35:34 Score for leonid__lols: 18.2 00:35:35 lament: see http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 00:35:39 for the full list 00:35:51 lament: note that [-] goes [-]-]-]-] 00:35:51 the scoring is like 00:35:55 ehird: i_keelst_thou beat vibration_fool_faster... 00:35:55 so (-)*128 is more effective 00:36:01 ais523: :-D 00:36:05 I wonder how? 00:36:05 you get points equal to the wins(+ties?) of programs you beat 00:36:09 !bfjoust what (-)*128 00:36:10 !bfjoust lols >([>][+])*20 00:36:12 and 1/4 points equal to programs you tie 00:36:13 Score for leonid__lols: 16.6 00:36:14 Score for lament_what: 0.0 00:36:14 ais523: it beat all vibrations 00:36:20 I'm not sure if vibration_fool_faster's defence portion is all that good against everything 00:36:23 it was rather experimental 00:36:26 ais523: and because it doesn't loop 00:36:30 !bfjoust lols >([>][-])*20 00:36:32 so if you don't beat a bunch of programs, but those programs beat everything else, you can still get a lot of points 00:36:32 Score for leonid__lols: 20.3 00:36:32 it decrements 128 before even thinking about looping 00:36:33 so it seems you have a counter-vibration attack strategy 00:36:40 ehird: ah, aha 00:36:43 nescience: oh, so the score for a program that doesn't attempt to win is proportional to the number of suiciders 00:36:44 so your petty messing about is dutifully ignored 00:36:44 !bfjoust lols (>)*9([>][-])*20 00:36:47 Score for leonid__lols: 15.3 00:37:02 !bfjoust lols >([>>][-])*20 00:37:04 Score for leonid__lols: 16.1 00:37:14 ehird: ha, good to know that works, it was in my mental queue too :P 00:37:21 !bfjoust vff_experimental >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(--++)*2500[[[>[---]+]+]+] 00:37:23 it's like everything changes drastically though each time i look 00:37:24 Score for ais523_vff_experimental: 63.5 00:37:34 heh, exactly the same score 00:37:37 !bfjoust vff_experimental < 00:37:40 Score for ais523_vff_experimental: 0.0 00:37:42 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES // the scores, as people were asking 00:37:51 no coding quickies for me till after work 00:38:01 !bfjoust hello [+] 00:38:04 Score for lament_hello: 7.8 00:38:23 GregorR, "FYB"? 00:38:28 isn't it JOUST ones 00:38:30 FukYorBrane. 00:38:35 The infrastructure is copied. 00:38:37 11 | + - 0 0 0 - + + + + + - - - - 0 + - - | 41.3 | -1 | ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust 00:38:37 ah 00:38:39 [for my reference] 00:38:41 AnMaster: Oh, I copied that text from FYB :P 00:39:26 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:39:28 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 53.6 00:39:35 AWESOME! 00:39:45 Up there with the big guys. 00:39:59 ehird: it's like isthata128, only with a [-] afterwards 00:40:02 !bfjoust lols (->[+])*20 00:40:04 Score for leonid__lols: 24.0 00:40:05 so it does better against the defence programs 00:40:09 ais523: well, the basic strategy is very simple 00:40:12 I thought it up independently 00:40:15 yes 00:40:19 * ehird gets idea 00:40:23 well, an old one 00:40:24 just interesting that yours does very well, and mine did terribly 00:40:24 but it might work 00:40:28 despite them working much the same way 00:40:34 11 | + - 0 + 0 - + + + + + - 0 0 + 0 + 0 - - | 52.6 | 4 | ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust 00:40:35 for reference 00:40:47 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-[++[---[++++[-----]]]]]>)*21 00:40:47 !bfjoust lols (->[+][+])*20 00:40:50 Score for leonid__lols: 18.2 00:40:51 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 48.5 00:40:56 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-[++[---[++++]]]]>)*21 00:40:58 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 17.1 00:41:02 !bfjoust lols (->[+-+])*20 00:41:05 Score for leonid__lols: 13.6 00:41:06 WOW 00:41:07 17.1? 00:41:09 That's low. 00:41:10 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-[++[---]]]>)*21 00:41:13 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 48.9 00:41:16 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-[++]]>)*21 00:41:18 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 31.4 00:41:22 Okay, this is a failed strategery. 00:41:28 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>+] 00:41:31 Score for lament_what: 22.2 00:41:37 ehird: it no longer beats the vibrators 00:41:39 if you do it like that 00:41:42 I think 00:41:42 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]->(-)*128[-]+>)*21 00:41:45 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 58.5 00:41:50 YAY 00:41:55 Setting up a bunch of decoys worked. :) 00:41:57 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>++] 00:42:00 Score for lament_what: 25.1 00:42:01 ehird: it usually does 00:42:03 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>+++] 00:42:05 decoys > no decoys 00:42:06 Score for lament_what: 20.7 00:42:11 even though everything has anti-decoy tricks nowadays 00:42:14 !bfjoust lols (-->[+])*20 00:42:17 Score for leonid__lols: 10.8 00:42:23 decoys are slow to set up 00:42:26 !bfjoust lols (+>[+])*20 00:42:29 Score for leonid__lols: 22.9 00:42:43 lament: one cycle 00:42:45 for me 00:42:45 !bfjoust lols (+>[+].)*20 00:42:47 alternate + and - 00:42:48 Score for leonid__lols: 16.1 00:42:57 lament: not ridiculously slow 00:43:03 and they slow the opponent down more 00:43:06 what does - do on an empty tape? 00:43:13 lament: - on 0 changes it to 255 00:43:15 lament: empty cell. 255 00:43:17 oh 00:43:17 current i_keelst_thou: 5 losses, 3 draws, 12 wins 00:43:22 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>-] 00:43:25 Score for lament_what: 19.9 00:43:32 heh 00:43:35 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>+] 00:43:36 I do badly w/ impomatics' programs 00:43:37 I wonder why? 00:43:38 Score for lament_what: 20.4 00:43:41 * lament confused 00:43:43 I don't think I beat any of his 00:43:52 why does my program with + beat my program with - ? 00:44:08 lament: random tape length 00:44:12 the change is small enough to be irrelevant 00:44:16 myyyyy interp will fix that :p:p:p 00:44:17 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:44:19 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 58.9 00:44:21 oh 00:44:24 !bfjoust mad_changer5 >+>->+>->+<<<(+)*200000 00:44:27 !bfjoust what >+[>[(-)*128]>-] 00:44:27 Score for AnMaster_mad_changer5: 19.8 00:44:29 tiny increase, so I'll leave it 00:44:30 Score for lament_what: 21.8 00:44:32 !bfjoust mad_changer5 >+>->+>->+<<<(+-+)*200000 00:44:35 Score for AnMaster_mad_changer5: 20.8 00:44:35 ais523: i'm third! 00:44:39 !bfjoust mad_changer5 >+>->+>->+<<<(+-++)*200000 00:44:43 Score for AnMaster_mad_changer5: 29.6 00:44:48 guys, i made some butter. o.o 00:44:49 ehird: well done 00:44:50 !bfjoust lols (+>[-])*20 00:44:51 from scratch. 00:44:53 Score for leonid__lols: 20.4 00:44:56 00:43 ehird: current i_keelst_thou: 5 losses, 3 draws, 12 wins ← this is 4 draws now 00:45:01 but it does much the same 00:45:09 !bfjoust mad_changer5 >+>->+>>->+<<<<(+-++)*200000 00:45:10 I lose against slow rush 00:45:12 wonder if I can fix that 00:45:12 Score for AnMaster_mad_changer5: 25.3 00:45:15 !bfjoust mad_changer5 >+>->+>->+<<<(+-++)*200000 00:45:17 Score for AnMaster_mad_changer5: 29.7 00:45:23 good enough for me 00:45:24 now* 00:45:28 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(+)*128[+]->)*21 00:45:31 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 36.6 00:45:36 !bfjoust lols (+>[-])*30 00:45:39 Score for leonid__lols: 27.6 00:45:40 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[+]+>(+)*128[-]->)*21 00:45:42 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 13.5 00:45:43 !bfjoust lols (+>[+])*30 00:45:46 Score for leonid__lols: 12.5 00:45:49 !bfjoust lols (->[+])*30 00:45:49 ouch 00:45:50 * ehird reverts 00:45:51 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:45:51 Score for leonid__lols: 21.7 00:45:54 the programs that do well against vff are nested-loop programs and no-loop programs 00:45:54 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 58.2 00:45:54 AnMaster: i don't get it, how does that kill anything? 00:46:04 lament, it doesn't 00:46:07 lament: tricking them off the end of the tape 00:46:11 lament, it is a pure defender 00:46:18 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(->[+])*19 00:46:19 ohh 00:46:21 Score for leonid__lols: 32.7 00:46:22 ais523: I have 6 draws now. 00:46:25 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[+])*19 00:46:25 that's increasing worryingly 00:46:28 Score for leonid__lols: 29.8 00:46:31 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*19 00:46:33 Score for leonid__lols: 36.7 00:46:33 only 4 losses though 00:46:35 which is nice 00:46:38 !bfjoust no_decoy - 00:46:39 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(->[-])*19 00:46:41 Score for AnMaster_no_decoy: 20.4 00:46:41 aaaaaaaaaaaa 00:46:42 Score for leonid__lols: 33.4 00:46:43 rushpolarity beat me 00:46:45 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:46:46 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*21 00:46:47 nice 00:46:48 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.6 00:46:49 Score for leonid__lols: 39.3 00:46:53 AnMaster: I find that pure defence can often be improved by putting an attack strategy there after it 00:46:54 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*30 00:46:56 !bfjoust no_decoy + 00:46:56 Score for leonid__lols: 27.2 00:46:58 Score for AnMaster_no_decoy: 16.2 00:47:00 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*22 00:47:02 Score for leonid__lols: 26.2 00:47:04 !bfjoust no_decoy . 00:47:07 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*20 00:47:07 Score for AnMaster_no_decoy: 17.8 00:47:08 that's designed to work against tripwire defenders and other programs likely to be slow 00:47:08 !bfjoust no_decoy > 00:47:09 Score for leonid__lols: 49.0 00:47:11 Score for AnMaster_no_decoy: 16.3 00:47:12 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 00:47:12 whoa 00:47:12 !bfjoust no_decoy - 00:47:15 Score for AnMaster_no_decoy: 19.8 00:47:18 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-])*20 00:47:18 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou -----(>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:47:20 Score for leonid__lols: 47.6 00:47:21 -!- psygnisf_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:47:22 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 36.7 00:47:23 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou +++++(>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:47:26 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 30.7 00:47:27 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:47:30 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.3 00:47:39 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(++>[-])*20 00:47:42 ehird: I've suddenly realised how well i_keelst_though would do against all the defend6-alikes 00:47:44 Score for leonid__lols: 12.3 00:47:48 ais523, maybe. But it is too long then 00:47:49 ais523: yeah 00:47:51 it completely breaks the assumptions they make 00:47:51 !bfjoust lols (-)*64(>)*9(+>[-])*20 00:47:52 DOESNT ANYONE WANT SOME OF MY HOMEMADE BUTTER?! 00:47:52 :| 00:47:54 Score for leonid__lols: 19.5 00:47:54 ais523: it barely even looks at you 00:47:57 psygnisfive: yes please 00:47:58 mail it to uk 00:48:03 right on it! 00:48:03 ais523: that's basically the idea 00:48:06 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[+])*20 00:48:08 Score for leonid__lols: 30.8 00:48:10 ais523: don't rely on anything the opponent can manipulate unless you really have to 00:48:17 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:48:20 Score for leonid__lols: 52.4 00:48:21 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:48:24 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.2 00:48:24 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+-+-])*20 00:48:27 Score for leonid__lols: 38.5 00:48:28 ehird: all defence programs rely on things the opponent can manipulate... 00:48:33 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+])*20 00:48:42 ais523: what I meant, was 00:48:42 Score for leonid__lols: 13.9 00:48:43 still, I love the way I'm second with a program that deliberately zeros its own flag 00:48:53 ais523: don't listen to what you're opponent's telling you. because they'll wind you up 00:48:58 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[(-+)*10-])*20 00:49:01 Score for leonid__lols: 46.5 00:49:06 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:49:08 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[(-+)*4-])*20 00:49:09 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 61.5 00:49:10 Score for leonid__lols: 26.5 00:49:13 (just seeing if i'm getting sample variance here) 00:49:13 whoa 00:49:14 >60! 00:49:17 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+-])*21 00:49:20 Score for leonid__lols: 43.2 00:49:21 Wouldn't a looping memory tape be more fun? 00:49:22 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:49:24 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (+>->)*4((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:49:25 Score for leonid__lols: 50.4 00:49:27 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 50.1 00:49:28 lament: no 00:49:29 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:49:29 50 o_O 00:49:31 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.2 00:49:32 lament: No, you could just do <[-] 00:49:36 tricking opponents off the end is the whole point 00:49:36 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:49:39 as is hiding your flag 00:49:39 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.2 00:49:46 hmm I dropped a bit. 00:49:51 11 | + + - + - + + + + + + - + - + - - - - | 56.2 | 3 | ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust 00:49:52 ais523: but this way, the optimal program relies too much on the fact that the field is between 10 and 30 cells. Change the limits, and a different program will be optimal. 00:49:53 No draws. 00:49:54 WTF? 00:50:06 ais523: that's not pretty! 00:50:08 lament: the limits were chosen to make the game interesting, though 00:50:17 they used to just be "random very large number" 00:50:20 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:50:23 Score for leonid__lols: 52.1 00:50:26 8 losses, 11 wins 00:50:27 but that made decoys an overwhelmingly good strategy 00:50:28 i'm doing okay 00:50:28 !bfjoust lols (>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:50:31 Score for leonid__lols: 50.4 00:50:34 keeping them small makes decoys more dangerous 00:50:36 !bfjoust lols ++(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:50:39 Score for leonid__lols: 41.0 00:50:44 !bfjoust lols +(>)*10(+>[-+-])*20 00:50:46 Score for leonid__lols: 46.5 00:50:53 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:50:54 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[--++-])*20 00:50:55 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 44.6 00:50:56 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:50:57 Score for leonid__lols: 25.2 00:50:59 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 58.2 00:51:05 ais523: i think my strategy is nearing its optimum 00:51:07 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[---])*20 00:51:10 Score for leonid__lols: 29.6 00:51:13 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>++>--)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:51:16 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 46.3 00:51:17 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[--])*20 00:51:19 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[---]+>(-)*128[+++]->)*21 00:51:20 Score for leonid__lols: 32.9 00:51:22 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 62.0 00:51:27 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-+-])*25 00:51:30 Score for leonid__lols: 42.7 00:51:33 ehird: yep, it's creeping up on vff 00:51:38 !bfjoust lols +(>)*11(+>[-+-])*18 00:51:41 Score for leonid__lols: 39.3 00:51:50 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:51:53 Score for leonid__lols: 52.1 00:51:53 ais523: WTF? it doesn't beat you 00:51:55 ais523: it used to beat you 00:52:06 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:52:09 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 60.2 00:52:09 no draws 00:52:16 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:52:18 10 | + + + 0 - + + + + + - + - + - - - + + | 63.2 | 6 | ais523_vibration_fool_faster.bfjoust 00:52:18 Score for leonid__lols: 47.1 00:52:19 11 | 0 - 0 0 0 - + + + + + + + 0 + + + - - | 60.2 | 6 | ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust 00:52:22 ais523: it beats vff. 00:52:24 :) 00:52:31 ehird: I'm not surprised 00:52:35 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-])*20 00:52:37 Score for leonid__lols: 31.6 00:52:41 foes it beat slowrush? 00:52:43 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[(-+)*5-])*20 00:52:45 *does 00:52:46 Score for leonid__lols: 38.2 00:52:49 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[(-+)*50-])*20 00:52:52 Score for leonid__lols: 36.7 00:52:53 ais523: nope; I don't even know how slowrush works. 00:53:12 !bfjoust lols +(>)*8(+>[-+-])*20 00:53:14 Score for leonid__lols: 35.5 00:53:19 !bfjoust (-)*128(+-)*500000 00:53:20 !bfjoust lols +-+(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:53:20 Use: !bfjoust 00:53:22 Score for leonid__lols: 50.4 00:53:27 !bfjoust dangle (-)*128(+-)*500000 00:53:27 !bfjoust lols +-+-+(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:53:29 ais523: how does it work? 00:53:30 Score for leonid__lols: 43.5 00:53:31 Score for lament_dangle: 7.4 00:53:37 ehird: decoys and attack 00:53:37 !bfjoust lols (+-)*20+(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:53:40 Score for leonid__lols: 45.7 00:53:40 the traditional way 00:53:43 only they're rather large decoys 00:53:45 !bfjoust lols (+-)*20(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:53:46 !bfjoust dangle (-)*127(+-)*500000 00:53:47 Score for leonid__lols: 36.8 00:53:49 Score for lament_dangle: 30.2 00:53:49 and the attack has fallbacks to detect defenders 00:53:54 and re-attack them a different way 00:53:55 ais523: well, decoys don't bother mine, at worst it has to run a few loop iterations 00:53:57 !bfjoust dangle (-)*127(+-)*50000000 00:53:59 in the hope at least one of the attacks will work 00:54:00 Score for lament_dangle: 22.0 00:54:01 OH 00:54:02 I have an idea! 00:54:03 !bfjoust lols --+(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:54:04 ehird: and decoys slow you down 00:54:05 Score for leonid__lols: 35.5 00:54:09 so it beats you by attacking faster 00:54:11 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>([(-)*128[-]]+>[(-)*128[+]]->)*21 00:54:12 !bfjoust lols .(>)*9(+>[-+-])*20 00:54:14 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 40.1 00:54:15 Score for leonid__lols: 21.9 00:54:17 WTF 00:54:21 ais523: why doesn't that work? 00:54:28 ais523: it should only run its attack if it's non-zero 00:54:30 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>>[-+-])*10 00:54:32 which should speed it up an awful lot 00:54:33 Score for leonid__lols: 29.4 00:54:35 ehird: more loops mean it's more vulnerable to farmers 00:54:39 so you're getting locked in place more 00:54:47 ais523, famers? 00:54:49 !bfjoust dangle (-)*127[[+]+] 00:54:50 ais523: ah 00:54:52 Score for lament_dangle: 11.8 00:54:55 AnMaster: programs that garble the values near their own flag 00:54:58 like vff 00:54:59 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:55:00 ok, I have an idea 00:55:01 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 58.5 00:55:02 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-[+]])*20 00:55:05 Score for leonid__lols: 37.8 00:55:07 ais523, oh and like madchanger 00:55:10 yes 00:55:10 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[+[-]])*20 00:55:13 Score for leonid__lols: 33.3 00:55:26 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:55:29 Score for leonid__lols: 57.5 00:55:32 whoa 00:55:38 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*64[(-)*64[-]]+>(+)*64[(+)*64[+]]->)*21 00:55:41 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 37.9 00:55:46 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 00:55:46 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(+)*128[+]->)*21 00:55:49 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 30.9 00:55:49 Score for leonid__lols: 41.1 00:55:53 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:55:55 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 55.1 00:55:56 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-[+-+]])*20 00:55:59 Score for leonid__lols: 44.7 00:56:00 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:56:02 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 00:56:03 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.6 00:56:05 Score for leonid__lols: 45.9 00:56:07 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(++++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 00:56:10 Score for leonid__lols: 39.4 00:56:11 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:56:13 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 50.8 00:56:15 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 00:56:17 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:56:18 Score for leonid__lols: 42.2 00:56:20 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 50.9 00:56:20 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 00:56:22 !bfjoust dangle (-)*127[-[+]] 00:56:23 Score for leonid__lols: 35.5 00:56:23 wtfff 00:56:26 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:56:26 Score for lament_dangle: 13.2 00:56:29 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 55.1 00:56:30 ais523: I hate the large sample variance. 00:56:30 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:56:33 Score for leonid__lols: 57.4 00:56:36 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:56:37 yeah the sample variance is BS 00:56:38 WTF 00:56:39 Score for leonid__lols: 47.2 00:56:41 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:56:44 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.8 00:56:44 I dropped waaaaaaay down 00:56:46 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(++++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:56:48 Score for leonid__lols: 36.7 00:56:55 !bfjoust lols +-+(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:56:56 ehird: you're writing a hill that fixes that, though, aren't you? 00:56:58 Score for leonid__lols: 42.0 00:57:02 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:57:02 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:57:03 ais523: yep 00:57:06 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.3 00:57:06 Score for leonid__lols: 58.1 00:57:09 whoa 00:57:13 it should be done tomorrow; I stopped working on it to have fun here 00:57:24 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 00:57:25 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:57:27 this one got ~60 00:57:27 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 55.0 00:57:28 Score for leonid__lols: 36.5 00:57:31 meh 00:57:32 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 00:57:34 guess the opponents are tougher these days 00:57:35 Score for leonid__lols: 44.9 00:57:39 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-+-[+-+-+]])*20 00:57:42 Score for leonid__lols: 44.9 00:57:45 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-+-+-[+-+-+]])*20 00:57:47 !bfjoust dangle < 00:57:47 how does lols work? 00:57:48 Score for leonid__lols: 31.4 00:57:50 Score for lament_dangle: 0.0 00:57:56 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+>[-[+-+-+]])*20 00:57:58 Score for leonid__lols: 42.7 00:58:02 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+>[-[+-+-+]])*20 00:58:05 Score for leonid__lols: 45.5 00:58:06 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:58:06 ehird: a disruptive reducing loop 00:58:10 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 48.4 00:58:10 so it's counter-disruption 00:58:12 ais523: eh? 00:58:13 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[-]->)*21 00:58:16 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 48.4 00:58:17 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+-+-+]])*20 00:58:17 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:58:19 it's reducing the value in a non-monotonic way 00:58:22 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 52.8 00:58:22 Score for leonid__lols: 55.7 00:58:24 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[+]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:58:27 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 40.1 00:58:29 so defence programs that rely on sensible ways to reduce the value get confused 00:58:31 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 00:58:32 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[(+-)*10+]])*20 00:58:33 That is so illogical 00:58:33 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 57.9 00:58:35 Score for leonid__lols: 32.9 00:58:36 -[-], but then -[+] 00:58:37 it'll beat defend6, for instance 00:58:39 consistently gets the best scores 00:58:41 but lose to pure attackers 00:58:41 how is that so, ais523? 00:58:41 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:58:44 Score for leonid__lols: 59.2 00:58:46 it makes no sense at all 00:58:53 ehird: because it's being slow 00:58:56 why does it get so high score 00:59:01 ais523: whatttt 00:59:02 so it beats things which expect it to attack quickly 00:59:06 which is most of the hill atm, I expect 00:59:22 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*25 00:59:25 Score for leonid__lols: 42.2 00:59:28 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*19 00:59:30 Score for leonid__lols: 33.6 00:59:31 ais523: ah, interesting 00:59:32 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*21 00:59:35 Score for leonid__lols: 39.7 00:59:37 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 00:59:40 Score for leonid__lols: 59.2 00:59:41 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-](+)*10>(-)*128[+](-)*10>)*21 00:59:43 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 29.1 00:59:45 leonid_: go back to the version which was third on the hill 00:59:45 darn 00:59:49 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-](+)*3>(-)*128[+](-)*3>)*21 00:59:50 and use a different name fo rthe others 00:59:52 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 45.0 00:59:52 i went back 00:59:56 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-](+)*2>(-)*128[+](-)*2>)*21 00:59:58 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 35.5 01:00:03 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:00:06 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 52.5 01:00:07 so one is the sweet spot for decosy 01:00:09 decoys 01:00:10 i have no idea how my own code works 01:00:12 dumb 01:00:15 :( 01:00:17 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->(-)*128[+]>(-)*128[+]>)*21 01:00:19 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 34.8 01:00:21 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:00:24 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 52.5 01:00:27 ais523: heh, every change I make seems to worsen it 01:00:56 !bfjoust dangle (+)*384000 01:00:56 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*22 01:00:56 ais523: do you think i _can_ improve the basic strategery? :-) 01:00:57 * ais523 wonders about evolutionary BF Joust 01:00:59 Score for leonid__lols: 43.8 01:00:59 Score for lament_dangle: 23.9 01:01:00 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:01:03 Score for leonid__lols: 60.0 01:01:06 60 01:01:07 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>->>)*2>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:01:08 lol 01:01:08 ehird: I don't know, you might be at risk of overfitting 01:01:09 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 43.6 01:01:20 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:01:23 Score for leonid__lols: 59.5 01:01:25 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:01:27 ;( 01:01:27 ais523: overfitting? 01:01:28 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.5 01:01:38 ehird: it's what happens if you train a neural network too much 01:01:42 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:01:44 it ends up perfect at describing your test data 01:01:45 Score for leonid__lols: 45.2 01:01:47 and rubbish at anything else 01:01:48 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(++++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:01:50 ais523: haha 01:01:51 Score for leonid__lols: 43.4 01:01:56 ais523, um why 01:01:59 ais523: how does that apply to this? 01:02:00 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[---[+-+]])*20 01:02:03 Score for leonid__lols: 39.9 01:02:04 AnMaster: because only the test data gets reinforced 01:02:06 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:02:08 ah 01:02:08 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*20 01:02:09 ehird: a program that beats all the programs there on the hill, but nothing in general 01:02:09 Score for leonid__lols: 60.0 01:02:11 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 35.8 01:02:13 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*22 01:02:16 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.9 01:02:19 LOL 01:02:26 ais523: going one over the tape length sometimes improves me score. 01:02:28 *my score 01:02:30 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*22 01:02:33 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.9 01:02:44 ... or actually worsens it 01:02:45 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:02:48 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.5 01:02:49 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:02:50 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(--->[-[+-+]])*20 01:02:52 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.0 01:02:53 Score for leonid__lols: 36.6 01:02:54 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*21 01:02:57 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 54.0 01:02:57 ehird: maybe it's to do with tape length latency? 01:02:58 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++-+>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:01 Score for leonid__lols: 44.9 01:03:01 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*22 01:03:04 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 59.8 01:03:05 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(++-++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:05 also, why don't you just remove the final > on the last iteration? 01:03:08 Score for leonid__lols: 34.3 01:03:17 !bfjoust lols +(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:20 Score for leonid__lols: 56.5 01:03:22 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4(>(-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]-)*22 01:03:24 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 49.2 01:03:25 !bfjoust lols +--(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:28 Score for leonid__lols: 41.4 01:03:29 ais523: because that does worse 01:03:31 !bfjoust lols ++(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:32 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4(>(-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]-)*21 01:03:34 Score for leonid__lols: 54.3 01:03:35 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 44.9 01:03:36 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*22 01:03:36 wait, the number at the end shouldn't make a difference, if it's over 10 01:03:38 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 59.3 01:03:41 !bfjoust lols -(>)*10(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:41 ais523: i know 01:03:42 because you have two >s in the repeated bit 01:03:43 what the _fuck_ 01:03:43 Score for leonid__lols: 37.7 01:03:47 !bfjoust lols -(>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:03:48 it must just be random tape length effects 01:03:50 Score for leonid__lols: 51.7 01:03:51 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*10 01:03:54 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 21.2 01:03:57 ais523: o rly? 01:03:59 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++><>[-[+-+]])*20 01:04:01 Score for leonid__lols: 41.3 01:04:03 that's a bit dramatic for random effects 01:04:04 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*11 01:04:07 !bfjoust lols -(><>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:04:07 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 57.3 01:04:10 Score for leonid__lols: 49.0 01:04:12 okay, 11's a sweet spot 01:04:23 ehird: I suspect there's an odd/even interaction agaisnt something that's floating around in the hill 01:04:31 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-]])*20 01:04:34 Score for leonid__lols: 24.5 01:04:38 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+-+-+-+]])*20 01:04:41 Score for leonid__lols: 44.0 01:04:43 !bfjoust ı (>)*9(-)*128[-] 01:04:45 Score for pikhq___: 14.4 01:04:47 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+++---+]])*20 01:04:50 Score for leonid__lols: 39.8 01:04:53 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[++--+]])*20 01:04:56 Score for leonid__lols: 39.3 01:05:00 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:05:00 night 01:05:02 Score for leonid__lols: 60.0 01:05:10 duh 01:05:13 please, can we talk about something else tomorrow? 01:05:17 AnMaster: no, this is fun 01:05:23 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue ([]+)*10000 01:05:26 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 16.5 01:05:29 this channel should be renamed joust 01:05:29 how about making #bfjoust 01:05:30 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-++]+>(-)*128[+--]->)*11 01:05:32 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 43.2 01:05:33 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue ([]+)*50000 01:05:34 leonid_: noooooooo 01:05:36 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 16.3 01:05:38 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou (>+>-)*4>((-)*128[-]+>(-)*128[+]->)*11 01:05:39 and I was just about to suggest making #bfjoust 01:05:41 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou: 56.9 01:05:46 although we'd have to persuade EgoBot to move there 01:05:48 ais523: it will die down eventually 01:05:53 but we're not talking about anything else 01:05:55 so why not joust? 01:06:04 ehird: well, #feather-lang exists 01:06:07 and it's pretty rarely used 01:06:18 ais523: it's a crappy channel because of that :) 01:06:24 !bfjoust lols ---(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:06:24 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue >>>>([]+)*50000 01:06:25 ais523, I'm in there! 01:06:26 Score for leonid__lols: 39.0 01:06:27 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 9.8 01:06:29 ais523, waiting for you 01:06:31 !bfjoust lols ---++(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:06:34 Score for leonid__lols: 48.8 01:06:35 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue >>>>(+[])*50000 01:06:38 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 10.4 01:06:39 !bfjoust lols ----+++(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:06:41 Score for leonid__lols: 44.8 01:06:54 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9.(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:06:57 Score for leonid__lols: 39.5 01:07:04 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+[-+-]]])*20 01:07:07 Score for leonid__lols: 34.6 01:07:12 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[-[+-+]]])*20 01:07:15 Score for leonid__lols: 45.4 01:07:30 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+[+-+]-[+-+]+]])*20 01:07:33 Score for leonid__lols: 29.1 01:07:42 10 63.09 7 ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust 01:07:43 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+[+-+]]])*20 01:07:44 Pleases me. 01:07:46 Score for leonid__lols: 29.9 01:07:51 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[+[+-+]])*20 01:07:54 Score for leonid__lols: 32.8 01:07:57 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:08:00 Score for leonid__lols: 60.6 01:08:03 nah 01:08:07 ?_? 01:08:26 !bfjoust defense! [[.]+] 01:08:29 Score for pikhq_defense_: 13.1 01:08:47 !bfjoust defense! [+[.]+] 01:08:48 ? 01:08:50 Score for pikhq_defense_: 12.8 01:08:55 Definitely not. 01:09:04 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>([-[+-+]])*5)*20 01:09:07 Score for leonid__lols: 45.9 01:09:10 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>([-[+-+]])*10)*20 01:09:10 !bfjoust lawlz [.] 01:09:12 Score for leonid__lols: 45.2 01:09:13 Score for pikhq_lawlz: 13.1 01:09:15 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>([-[+-+]])*100)*20 01:09:18 Score for leonid__lols: 45.5 01:09:23 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>([-[+-+]])*1)*20 01:09:26 Score for leonid__lols: 38.0 01:09:30 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:09:33 Score for leonid__lols: 58.9 01:09:40 random tape lol 01:09:59 !bfjoust lawlz [(+)*64] 01:10:02 Score for pikhq_lawlz: 5.0 01:10:20 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue ([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*9(+)*20(<)*9)*10([](+)*128(>)*10(+)*20(<)*10)*10([](+)*128(>)*11(+)*20(<)*11)*10([](+)*128(>)*12(+)*20(<)*12)*10([](+)*128(>)*13(+)*20(<)*13)*10([](+)*128(>)*14(+)*20(<)*14)*10([](+)*128(>)*15(+)*20(<)*15)*10([](+)*128(>)*16(+)*20(<)*16)*10([](+)*128(>)*17(+)*20(<)*17)*10([](+)*128(>)*18(+)*20(<)*18)*10([](+)*128(>)*19(+)*20(<)*19)*10([](+)*128( 01:10:22 >)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*8(+)*20(<)*8)*10([](+)*128(>)*20(+)*20(<)*20)*10([](+)*128(>)*21(+)*20(<)*21)*10 01:10:23 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 0.0 01:10:27 heh 01:10:29 I'll pastebin it 01:10:31 ais523: FAIL 01:10:54 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 01:11:11 !bfjoust anti_counterdefence_glue http://pastebin.ca/raw/1438788 01:11:15 Score for ais523_anti_counterdefence_glue: 16.8 01:11:22 heh, still doing rather badly 01:11:44 it beat maglev and shade 01:11:58 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*15 01:12:00 lesson learnt: don't attack a construct that hardly anyone uses 01:12:01 Score for leonid__lols: 43.8 01:12:04 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*17 01:12:07 Score for leonid__lols: 51.5 01:12:10 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*18 01:12:12 Score for leonid__lols: 42.8 01:12:14 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*16 01:12:17 Score for leonid__lols: 38.9 01:12:29 !bfjoust lols -(>)*20(+++>[-[+-+]])*10 01:12:32 Score for leonid__lols: 35.4 01:12:37 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:12:39 :( 01:12:40 Score for leonid__lols: 59.5 01:12:52 whoa 01:13:05 In Star Trek, a planet with no life may have trees. 01:13:08 Because trees totally aren't life. 01:13:30 .... 01:13:38 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+-+>[-[+-+]])*20 01:13:40 Score for leonid__lols: 55.1 01:13:44 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+-+>[---[+-+]])*20 01:13:47 Score for leonid__lols: 52.9 01:13:49 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+-+>[--[+-+]])*20 01:13:49 GregorR-L: Ah, Star Trek. 01:13:52 Score for leonid__lols: 46.5 01:13:55 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+-+>[-----[+-+]])*20 01:13:58 Score for leonid__lols: 51.2 01:13:59 leonid_: put lols back to the version that gets almost 60 01:14:01 So bad, it's amazing that it's entertaining. 01:14:06 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+>[-[+-+]])*20 01:14:08 and use a different filename for tests 01:14:09 Score for leonid__lols: 50.5 01:14:15 okay 01:14:17 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+>[-[+-+]])*20 01:14:20 Score for leonid__lols: 49.9 01:14:25 the good version had +++ before the > 01:14:26 it sucks now 01:14:31 !bfjoust lols -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:14:32 oh yeah 01:14:34 Score for leonid__lols: 59.5 01:14:36 kk 01:14:51 leaving the good one there while experimenting means that other players have better programs to aim for 01:15:06 !bfjoust lols2 -(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:15:09 Score for leonid__lols2: 55.4 01:15:24 they tie 01:15:35 !bfjoust lols2 -(>)*9(+-+>[-[+-+]])*19 01:15:38 Score for leonid__lols2: 51.7 01:15:44 !bfjoust lols2 -(>)*9(+-+-+++>[-[+-+]])*19 01:15:47 Score for leonid__lols2: 46.0 01:15:50 !bfjoust lols2 -(>)*9(+-+-+++>[-[+-+]])*23 01:15:52 Score for leonid__lols2: 36.5 01:16:18 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*23 01:16:21 Score for leonid__lols2: 35.1 01:16:32 You're doin' well :P 01:16:48 not really :/ 01:17:07 !bfjoust lols2 ---(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*23 01:17:09 Score for leonid__lols2: 40.7 01:17:20 !bfjoust lols2 (-+)*10000+(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*23 01:17:23 Score for leonid__lols2: 48.8 01:17:31 !bfjoust lols2 (-+)*100000+(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:17:34 Score for leonid__lols2: 22.1 01:17:36 nah 01:17:48 !bfjoust lols2 (-+)*100+(>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:17:51 Score for leonid__lols2: 30.4 01:18:04 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:18:06 Score for leonid__lols2: 31.8 01:18:47 No one can defeat slowrush. 01:18:50 Muahahaha etc. 01:19:43 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:19:46 Score for leonid__lols2: 34.8 01:19:50 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[++--+]])*20 01:19:53 Score for leonid__lols2: 30.7 01:20:00 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+-+]])*20 01:20:02 Score for leonid__lols2: 37.6 01:20:11 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[(+-)*1000+]])*20 01:20:13 Score for leonid__lols2: 37.7 01:20:18 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[(+-)*100+]])*20 01:20:21 Score for leonid__lols2: 35.7 01:20:29 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+++>[-[(+-)*99999+]])*20 01:20:32 Score for leonid__lols2: 24.6 01:20:52 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8((+)*64>[-[+-+]])*20 01:20:55 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.2 01:21:02 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8((+)*129>[-[+-+]])*20 01:21:04 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.8 01:21:08 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8((+)*131>[-[+-+]])*20 01:21:11 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.8 01:21:19 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8((+)*131>[(-)*129[+-+]])*20 01:21:22 Score for leonid__lols2: 36.6 01:21:24 GregorR-L: vff beats slowrush in the head-to-head match 01:21:29 just not percentagewise 01:21:39 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8((+)*131>[-[++-+-++]])*20 01:21:42 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.2 01:22:01 !bfjoust lols2 +(>)*8(+>[-[+[+[-+-]+]+]-])*20 01:22:04 Score for leonid__lols2: 24.8 01:22:10 one thing that could be interesting, but difficult, would be updating the scoreboard to show /how/ each win/loss/draw happened 01:22:17 e.g. timeout, off tape right, etc 01:22:29 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*9(++++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:22:31 Score for leonid__lols2: 39.0 01:22:38 yeah that'd be fun 01:23:39 -!- coppro has joined. 01:23:43 ais523: the bot just takes return values of 0, 1, 2... gonna have to get gregor to change the bot for something like that 01:23:56 yes, I know 01:24:00 !bfjoust lols2 +-+(>)*11(++++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:24:00 which is why I said it was difficult 01:24:02 Score for leonid__lols2: 36.0 01:24:05 ya 01:24:05 Actually, just report.c 01:24:12 hi coppro 01:24:13 Err, and egojoust.c 01:24:19 The point is, not the bot itself, just stuff it runs. 01:24:24 oh? 01:24:34 i saw earlier you say something about it going off the return values, but if not then even better 01:24:39 hi 01:24:49 GregorR-L: is egojoust in EgoBot's hg repo yet? 01:24:50 i gotta sit down and make slowrush stop running off the tape vs vibration.. i assume that's what it's doing at least 01:24:51 it doesn't seem to be 01:24:53 ais523: Yes. 01:25:01 ais523: It's there. 01:25:18 ais523: what commanad are you typing? i just get an error :\ 01:25:32 nescience: "hg update" 01:25:43 hg pull && hg up 01:25:44 lol 01:25:46 guess that doesn't help me 01:25:53 ooh, I forgot to pull... 01:25:59 what's the correct url 01:26:08 !info 01:26:09 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ 01:26:17 That's the correct URL to the source for EgoBot itself. 01:26:23 https 01:26:35 i wonder if that makes a difference? 01:26:36 ... yes. And? 01:26:38 Oh 01:26:39 i was using http 01:26:42 You can do either. 01:26:42 !bfjoust lols2 +-+(>)*11(+++++>[-[+-+-+]])*19 01:26:45 Score for leonid__lols2: 30.2 01:26:49 !bfjoust lols2 +-+(>)*9(+++++>[-[+-+-+]])*19 01:26:52 Score for leonid__lols2: 37.1 01:26:55 !bfjoust lols2 +-+(>)*9(+++++>[-[+-+-+]])*21 01:26:55 I have it set to https so that if somebody gets push access, they'll push to https 01:26:57 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.6 01:27:01 :3 01:27:13 nope 01:27:24 i'm still trying to get the bf_joust folder, but it just says it's not a repository 01:27:25 lmfao lols is rank 2 now 01:27:26 ah 01:27:40 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ you mean? 01:27:42 That should work. 01:27:47 That E_WORKSFORME 01:27:54 !bfjoust lols2 ++(>)*9(+++++>[-[+-+-+]])*21 01:27:56 Score for leonid__lols2: 39.3 01:28:20 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*10(+++>[+++[+-+-+]])*20 01:28:23 Score for leonid__lols2: 24.9 01:28:28 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*10(+++>[+++[+]])*20 01:28:30 Score for leonid__lols2: 23.1 01:28:33 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*10(+++>[+++[-]])*20 01:28:36 Score for leonid__lols2: 31.9 01:28:38 abort: 'http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/' does not appear to be an hg repository! 01:28:40 :\ 01:28:40 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*10(+++>[-[-]])*20 01:28:43 Score for leonid__lols2: 28.2 01:28:50 !bfjoust lols2 +++(>)*10(+++>[-[+]])*20 01:28:54 Score for leonid__lols2: 26.8 01:28:57 what the fuck am i doing 01:29:05 i did apt-get install mercurial 01:29:12 if i need something else that could be the problem 01:29:45 !bfjoust lols2 +++(><><><>)*10(+++>[-[+]])*20 01:29:48 Score for leonid__lols2: 37.3 01:29:59 Idonno what to tell you, that works for me. You could just do wget -r -l inf -np http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/.hg/ 01:30:04 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><><>)*9(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:30:07 Score for leonid__lols2: 46.2 01:30:14 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><><>)*10(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:30:16 Then put that somewhere and `hg up` next to it. 01:30:17 Score for leonid__lols2: 42.0 01:30:20 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><><>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:30:21 Anyway, I've gtg. 01:30:23 Score for leonid__lols2: 49.8 01:30:25 maybe i'll just try to get the windows version and play ith that 01:30:26 ok, thanks 01:30:29 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><><><>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:30:32 Score for leonid__lols2: 47.0 01:30:35 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><><><><>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:30:38 Score for leonid__lols2: 48.4 01:30:42 myndzi: it could be an internet connectivity problem from inside the vm 01:30:42 ?_? 01:31:09 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><<>><>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:31:12 Score for leonid__lols2: 0.0 01:31:17 now what 01:31:33 !bfjoust lols2 +(><><<>>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:31:35 Score for leonid__lols2: 0.0 01:31:44 oh nvm 01:31:55 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<><>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:31:58 Score for leonid__lols2: 46.8 01:32:14 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:32:17 Score for leonid__lols2: 51.5 01:32:31 coppro: how did the Enigma-playing go? 01:32:39 it's going well 01:32:43 lots of work to do though 01:32:44 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:32:46 Score for leonid__lols2: 47.3 01:32:52 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:32:54 Score for leonid__lols2: 45.9 01:33:11 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>>><<<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:33:14 Score for leonid__lols2: 44.1 01:33:39 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+]])*20 01:33:42 Score for leonid__lols2: 52.0 01:33:45 interesting 01:34:02 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-+-[+-+]])*20 01:34:04 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.8 01:34:09 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[--[+-+-+]])*20 01:34:12 Score for leonid__lols2: 42.6 01:34:15 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:34:17 Score for leonid__lols2: 56.7 01:34:18 ais523: nah, apt-get worked 01:34:20 whoa 01:34:27 myndzi: ah, good point 01:34:34 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+-+]])*20 01:34:36 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.8 01:34:40 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:34:42 also, why using > and < to nop, rather than just . 01:34:43 Score for leonid__lols2: 40.4 01:34:56 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+>[-[+-+-+-+]])*20 01:34:57 oh 01:34:58 Score for leonid__lols2: 36.2 01:35:15 !bfjoust lols2 +(>...<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:35:17 Score for leonid__lols2: 41.8 01:35:20 !bfjoust lols2 +(>....)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:35:23 Score for leonid__lols2: 37.0 01:35:32 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:35:35 Score for leonid__lols2: 56.7 01:35:41 lol i'm lost 01:35:55 !bfjoust lols2 +(........>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:35:58 Score for leonid__lols2: 36.6 01:36:04 !bfjoust lols2 +(....>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:36:07 Score for leonid__lols2: 35.1 01:36:17 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(++++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:36:19 Score for leonid__lols2: 47.3 01:36:37 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:36:40 Score for leonid__lols2: 42.0 01:36:43 the wget should do it i guess 01:36:45 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:36:48 Score for leonid__lols2: 56.7 01:37:12 !bfjoust lols2 +><(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:37:14 mostly i just wanted to get my code back 01:37:14 Score for leonid__lols2: 48.6 01:37:19 i'm not so interested in keeping it up to date 01:37:20 !bfjoust lols2 +>-<+(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:37:23 Score for leonid__lols2: 47.3 01:37:27 but i guess i can figure that out later 01:37:29 !bfjoust lols2 +>-<(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[+-+-+]])*20 01:37:31 Score for leonid__lols2: 35.1 01:37:39 !bfjoust lols2 +(>><<>><<>)*8(+++>[-[++--+]])*20 01:37:41 leonid_: you might consider doing that in a query with the bot 01:37:41 Score for leonid__lols2: 44.0 01:37:47 ah yeah 01:37:48 just so, y'know, people can see what they are saying in here 01:37:50 :) 01:37:59 i'll do that 01:38:23 sorry for spamming 01:38:24 i think i'm gonna make a mirc interpreter after all (lol slow) 01:38:34 so i can test things out like that without messing with the bot 01:39:45 damn 01:39:56 i just fixed head 10, but it's still screwing up 01:40:01 i have no idea what the problem is now :\ 01:40:09 maybe a bad solenoid, but it'll be hard to test.. 01:45:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:50:13 lol 01:50:19 the windows version of mercurial worked fine 01:50:26 i think maybe the debian packages are out of date 01:50:32 er, ubuntu, whatever 01:51:17 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:54:52 lmfao lols2 got rank 2 01:55:39 whoa 01:55:42 it beats slowrush 01:55:52 *dances* 02:00:17 o_O 02:00:42 BUT I AM INVINCIBLE 02:01:08 mmmm 02:01:22 hmm... I reckon attack1 would beat lols2 02:01:22 nope 02:01:24 let's find out 02:01:31 i beat yours too nescience 02:01:40 * myndzi = nescience 02:01:44 oh 02:01:46 nvm 02:01:50 !bfjoust attack1 [>[-]+] 02:01:53 Score for ais523_attack1: 18.9 02:02:06 damn 02:02:10 yep, it might be last 02:02:14 but it beats lols2 02:02:18 yes 02:02:22 >_> 02:02:27 and lols, and maglev 02:02:30 but nothing else 02:03:01 making several attack1 clone will pull lols down 02:03:07 don't do it 02:03:15 I'm not going to 02:03:20 and I'd have to submit them very quickly 02:03:34 !bfjoust attack1_buffered [[[>[-]+]+]+] 02:03:37 Score for ais523_attack1_buffered: 20.1 02:04:22 heh, now it beats ehird's best program /and/ leonid's best program 02:04:26 but still loses against most of the field 02:07:24 there's got to be an easy way to display the most recent version of a file that got deleted 02:07:35 myndzi: in BF Joust, or in general? 02:07:39 hg 02:07:53 i'm still trying to figure out how to FIND how to refer to the latest version of th efile 02:18:24 !bfjoust creep >+>->+>->+>->+(>-++-(.)*132[+]++>-++-(.)*132[-]--)*15 02:18:27 Score for nescience_creep: 25.3 02:18:30 finally figured it out 02:18:33 ha, doesn't do so hot anymore 02:18:36 that's what i was curious about 02:21:33 wow, ehird_i_keelst_thou.bfjoust is down to halfway already 02:21:52 !bfjoust lawlz . 02:21:53 and impomatic_mirage is a new entry near the top 02:21:54 Score for pikhq_lawlz: 13.1 02:22:01 or has it just always been there, and started doing well, I wonder? 02:22:10 It wins by merit of not killing itself! 02:22:31 ah, yes 02:22:38 nescience_shade assumes the opponent sets up at least one decoy 02:22:42 whereas lawlz doesn't 02:22:51 lawlz 02:26:20 yawn 02:31:36 lawlz3 gets rank 2 02:31:43 hahaha 02:32:05 clearly, I need a radically new idea 02:33:36 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>([+[+[+[---]]]])*21 02:33:39 Score for ais523_speedy1: 15.2 02:34:07 beats only shade and mirage 02:34:20 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>([+[+[+[-]]]])*21 02:34:23 Score for ais523_speedy1: 11.2 02:34:59 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>(+[+[+[+[---]]]]>)*21 02:35:02 Score for ais523_speedy1: 40.1 02:35:10 it would help if I remembered to enter the loop in the first place... 02:35:19 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>(+[+[+[---]]]>)*21 02:35:22 Score for ais523_speedy1: 30.1 02:35:28 * ais523 wonders why that does worse 02:35:34 oh, it's slower against a flag 02:35:47 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>(-[++[++[---]]]>)*21 02:35:50 Score for ais523_speedy1: 19.1 02:36:03 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>(-[+[+++[---]]]>)*21 02:36:06 Score for ais523_speedy1: 23.3 02:36:13 !bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>>(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21 02:36:16 Score for ais523_speedy1: 50.7 02:36:33 that's more like it 02:36:42 **** 02:37:36 heh, vff's down to the bottom half of the leaderboard already 02:38:41 !bfjoust stubborn >>>>>>>>>((.-)*256>)*21 02:38:46 Score for ais523_stubborn: 26.5 02:38:52 I was just curious 02:39:11 5 wins, but nevertheless last 02:39:17 !bfjoust stubborn >>>>>>>>>((.+)*256>)*21 02:39:20 Score for ais523_stubborn: 12.2 02:39:27 interesting how much difference that made... 02:40:42 !bfjoust flagwire_vibration [](+-)*5000+>+++++[[[>[---]+]+]+]+[[[>[---]+]+]+] 02:40:45 Score for ais523_flagwire_vibration: 13.8 02:41:21 oh, of course; as ehird said, you can't use a [] on your own flag 02:43:01 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>+[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:43:02 that's the main reason for my wiki comment about timing 02:43:04 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 13.9 02:43:15 * ais523 wonders why tripwire_sensor does so badly 02:43:27 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>+>+<[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:43:30 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 13.7 02:44:17 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>++++>+<[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:44:20 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 18.7 02:45:18 * ais523 tests locally against speedy1 02:46:20 ah, of course 02:46:24 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>+++>+<[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:46:28 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 18.6 02:46:45 strange, speedy1 still wins 02:48:15 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>+++++>+<[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:48:19 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 13.8 02:48:27 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>++>+<[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:48:30 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 20.4 02:48:35 that's better 02:48:38 but still not good enough 02:49:33 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>>+<+++++[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:49:36 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 19.7 02:49:41 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>>+<++[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:49:45 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 13.5 02:49:52 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>>-<++[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:49:56 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 15.8 02:50:01 !bfjoust tripwire_sensor >+>>-<+++++[]<(.)*48[<(+)*100000]<(-)*100000 02:50:05 Score for ais523_tripwire_sensor: 21.5 02:56:36 ahh finally got it right 02:56:39 take that vibration 02:56:44 it's such a good vibration 02:56:52 but now i lose to speedy, must be timing 02:56:54 * myndzi speeds it up a little 02:57:02 myndzi: you boosted slowrush? 02:57:08 ya 02:57:10 still tweaking though 02:57:26 heh, and you draw to tripwire_sensor, which is awful 02:57:42 haven't got to that point, tackling one at a time 02:57:45 first, the ones i was losing to 02:57:45 :) 02:57:57 :o 02:58:09 this thing should allow forking! 02:58:27 !bfjoust speedy_decoy >(-)*5>>>>>>>>(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21 02:58:30 Score for ais523_speedy_decoy: 50.8 02:58:31 that would add a whole new level of awesome 02:58:39 bingo 02:58:42 my lawlz still beats slowrush 02:58:47 2 ties 02:58:48 all wins 02:58:54 beh, slowrush still somehow beats it anyway 02:59:00 nevermind 02:59:01 wonder why it ties to viper 02:59:14 aarrrgrgh 02:59:17 like my solution to vibrate? :) 02:59:18 did Gregor increase the heap size or is it another bug? 02:59:26 (current code: >(+)*19>(-)*19>+>->+>->+>-(>-.+[[-++++++++++++++[-.]]+>-.+]+)*20) 02:59:44 myndzi: by vibrating a bit yourself to see if it kills the opponent 02:59:52 it's more precise than that 02:59:54 specifically, 02:59:58 if i execute "-" and you don't die 03:00:01 i know your timing 03:00:07 and then i wait a beat and counteract it so you do 03:00:21 -.+ 03:00:35 costs me 3 cycles on new cells but it is worth it 03:01:10 me and viper must be getting in +- loops 03:01:15 but i don't see how that can happen 03:01:22 gah, why is 109 prime 03:01:23 oh, nevermind 03:01:36 your use of 19 for the decoys in slowrush is really clever 03:01:39 maybe I'll steal it 03:01:54 although, idea 03:01:56 :P 03:02:00 !bfjoust speedy_decoy < 03:02:03 Score for ais523_speedy_decoy: 0.0 03:02:03 18 loses me lots of points 03:02:07 so i am not really sure 03:02:08 it was 20 03:02:13 i dropped it to 19 to beat your inverse 03:02:18 that's what i meant when i said cheap hack 03:02:24 just so i was a little faster than you 03:02:24 :) 03:02:42 well, a tie to viper is ok 03:02:46 i reign supreme again! 03:02:46 19 works well because it slows all the modulo programs, being prime and 128-19 also being prime 03:02:52 93 points! 03:03:04 yeah, i didn't study it enough, but that makes sense 03:03:21 so i wonder how 13 would work 03:03:38 less good 03:03:44 !bfjoust speedy2 >>>>>>>>>([-[++[---]]]>)*21 03:03:47 Score for ais523_speedy2: 38.4 03:04:13 damn 03:04:17 that resubmission cost me a win 03:04:54 woot 03:05:07 ;o 03:05:57 !bfjoust speedy2_with_19_decoy >(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>([-[++[---]]]>)*21 03:06:01 Score for ais523_speedy2_with_19_decoy: 43.8 03:06:14 i had an idea driving over here i wanted to mess with 03:06:17 now i can't think of it atm 03:06:18 !bfjoust ais523_speedy < 03:06:21 Score for ais523_ais523_speedy: 0.0 03:06:28 !bfjoust speedy2 < 03:06:31 Score for ais523_speedy2: 0.0 03:06:54 $!@$!# !@$@#$ 03:08:44 !bfjoust monovibration (+)*5000(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21 03:08:47 Score for ais523_monovibration: 5.5 03:08:54 heh, that did badly 03:08:58 oops 03:09:01 !bfjoust monovibration (+)*5000>(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21 03:09:06 Score for ais523_monovibration: 28.3 03:09:28 whoa 74.1 03:09:30 *dances* 03:10:20 what's the timeout 03:10:34 100000 03:10:37 hmm 03:10:52 !bfjoust monovibration (-)*5000>(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21 03:10:55 Score for ais523_monovibration: 12.7 03:11:20 !bfjoust test >+>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:11:24 Score for myndzi_test: 86.9 03:11:27 sweet 03:11:33 !bfjoust test < 03:11:35 Score for myndzi_test: 0.0 03:11:45 !bfjoust 3pass >+>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:11:48 hmm... my new program's gonna need some serious copy-paste 03:11:49 Score for myndzi_3pass: 86.8 03:11:59 son of a 03:12:01 myndzi: wow 03:12:05 you even beat slowrush 03:12:05 lol it beats slowrush 03:12:20 question 03:12:24 i guess i'm just good? ;p 03:12:27 lucky 19s 03:12:30 the strategy of crazy decoys seems to be a good one 03:12:32 how do you beat something that does [-[+]]? 03:12:47 coppro: defend6 beats that by locking it in place and capturing its flag 03:12:57 ais523: its purpose isn't to be "crazy" but to be thorough 03:12:57 how? 03:13:04 or, you could attack and get its flag faster, that's not a very fast way to defeat an opponent 03:13:04 i get "something" on the first 10 spots asap 03:13:09 then something less trivial 03:13:13 coppro: basically by doing 128*(+) every 64 turns 03:13:13 and finally something fairly weighty 03:13:24 and then i continue to lay down big decoys, not that it's likely to help 03:13:28 i wonder if i'd do better for taking that out 03:13:32 but that leaves you stuck in the same place, no? 03:13:37 !bfjoust 3pass >+>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]]+)*20 03:13:39 Score for myndzi_3pass: 79.4 03:13:44 !bfjoust 3pass >+>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:13:47 Score for myndzi_3pass: 86.6 03:13:48 coppro: the other 64 turns, you can go and capture the opponent's flag 03:13:48 well, guess it helps after all 03:13:52 ah 03:14:30 !bfjoust speedy2_with_19_decoy < 03:14:33 Score for ais523_speedy2_with_19_decoy: 0.0 03:15:48 !bfjoust jump >>>>>>>([>>>[[[-]>+]+]+[[[-]>+]+]]>)*21 03:15:51 Score for ais523_jump: 29.5 03:16:16 !bfjoust jump >>>>>>>([>>[[[-]>+]+]+[[[-]>+]+]]>)*21 03:16:19 Score for ais523_jump: 56.2 03:16:23 ah, that's better 03:16:31 2 decoys seems to be the standard amount 03:16:51 and it beats both slowrush and 3pass 03:16:56 owat 03:17:08 that's mean :( 03:17:13 hehe 03:17:25 I can't remember whose idea guessing that the first value is a decoy was 03:17:30 <- 03:17:40 but guessing /two/ decoys seems to do better 03:17:43 it's one of the many ways i beat the defend scripts 03:17:46 ha 03:18:07 problem is you can go back and forth all day tweaking and countertweaking that 03:18:13 yes 03:18:21 but then you'll lose to programs doing an entirely different strategy 03:18:26 most people seem to use two decoys at the moment 03:18:27 not necessarily 03:18:33 let's try something 03:19:30 !bfjoust 3pass >>+>->+>->+>->+++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:19:32 Score for myndzi_3pass: 79.4 03:20:02 i didn't catch how many wins it had before for comparison 03:20:02 crap 03:20:06 !bfjoust 3pass >+>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:20:09 Score for myndzi_3pass: 81.4 03:20:19 well i guess your program isn't worth it :P 03:20:28 i'm surprised at such a big difference though 03:21:10 !bfjoust 3pass >>+>->+>->+>->+++<--<++<--<++<--<++(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:21:12 Score for myndzi_3pass: 70.0 03:21:13 whoops i had a mistake 03:21:16 o_O 03:21:23 what i get for messin around i guess 03:21:26 also, jump doesn't do badly against programs that leave a trail of 1s or -1s behind as they move 03:21:27 omg how the fuck 03:21:40 i will have to really think from now on 03:21:48 oh 03:21:50 ugh 03:21:54 i am having trouble tracking pointers 03:22:18 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[---]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:22:21 Score for ais523_jump2: 34.9 03:22:32 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:22:35 Score for ais523_jump2: 60.0 03:22:45 !bfjoust 3pass >>->+>->+>->+>--<++<--<++<--<++<--(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16(>-.+[(+)*19[+[-.]]](+)*19)*20 03:22:48 Score for myndzi_3pass: 83.3 03:22:52 that's what i wanted in the first place 03:22:55 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>([-[++[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:22:58 Score for ais523_jump2: 50.8 03:23:10 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:23:13 Score for ais523_jump2: 51.9 03:23:30 hmm... seems to be quite a tapelength dependence there 03:23:36 ais523: do nested brace sets work as expected? 03:23:47 coppro: they should do, but I haven't tested much 03:24:19 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>(++++[-]>)*21]>)*21 03:24:22 Score for ais523_jump2: 39.6 03:24:26 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>(+[-]>)*21]>)*21 03:24:29 Score for ais523_jump2: 50.7 03:24:37 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>([-]>)*21]>)*21 03:24:40 Score for ais523_jump2: 29.9 03:24:49 !bfjoust jump2 >+++>--->>>>>>>([>>(+[-]>)*21]>)*21 03:24:53 Score for ais523_jump2: 39.3 03:25:37 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>(-[++[-]]>)*21]>)*21 03:25:40 Score for ais523_jump2: 30.2 03:25:46 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:25:49 Score for ais523_jump2: 19.7 03:26:08 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>>>([>>(-[++[-]]>)*21]>)*21 03:26:12 Score for ais523_jump2: 31.0 03:26:25 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>([-[++[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:26:28 Score for ais523_jump2: 41.3 03:26:43 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:26:46 Score for ais523_jump2: 53.2 03:27:06 !bfjoust jump2 >>>>>>>([>>(-[+[+[-]]]>)*21]>)*21 03:27:09 Score for ais523_jump2: 52.1 03:27:23 that program gets a much higher score if it happens to get a short tape against 3pass... 03:28:10 right, because it gets a lucky win and all the points from beating 3pass 03:28:15 yes 03:28:20 well, maybe not 03:28:23 where's ehird with his exhaustive search interpreter 03:28:26 well i mean 03:28:29 I wonder what the tape range in which jump2 beats 3pass is? 03:28:31 more or less than half? 03:28:37 dunno 03:28:43 that's just the reason for the point boost is all 03:28:48 yes, I know 03:29:51 lawlz beat slowrush and 3pass 03:29:56 *dances* 03:30:06 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(-.+(+)*128(-)*128(+.)*256(-.)*256(++.)*256(--.)*256>)*20 03:30:09 Score for myndzi_keke2: 34.3 03:30:15 hehe 03:30:30 mmmm 03:31:04 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(+)*128(-)*128(+.)*256(-.)*256(++.)*256(--.)*256>)*20])*20 03:31:07 Score for myndzi_keke2: 49.6 03:31:38 seems to mostly get outraced 03:31:39 huh 03:32:02 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(+)*128(-)*128(+.)*128(-.)*128(++.)*128(--.)*128>)*20])*20 03:32:05 Score for myndzi_keke2: 43.2 03:32:15 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(+)*128(-)*128(+.)*256(-.)*256>)*20])*20 03:32:17 I like the way speedy1 is doing so well 03:32:18 Score for myndzi_keke2: 39.3 03:32:22 because everyone's trying complicated stuff 03:32:32 most of my ideas have been pretty simple :P 03:32:36 but possibly inelegant 03:32:41 i agree that elegant simplicity is awesome 03:32:45 noooo 03:32:49 wow, vibration_fool_faster just died 03:32:58 from second to last in just a few hours 03:33:01 79.71 vs 79.50 03:33:01 sorry for including vibration killers in everything 03:33:02 x_x 03:33:02 :P 03:33:15 lawlz 03:33:16 myndzi: I don't mind, it'll just make them easier to kill with my other programs 03:33:27 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(+)*128(-)*128(+.)*256(-.)*256(++.)*256(--.)*256>)*20])*20 03:33:29 Score for myndzi_keke2: 49.3 03:33:39 i don't know why my code works 03:33:39 i gotta stop giving leonid points 03:33:46 all I do is changing constants 03:33:46 time to work on beating lols 03:34:18 ugh 03:34:19 nooooo 03:36:04 anyone have somewhere I can upload my awful program? 03:37:24 coppro: use a pastebin? 03:37:39 can egobot handle that? 03:37:50 yes if in raw format 03:37:53 pastebin.ca has raw links 03:37:57 so it's a good one to use with egobot 03:38:02 ok 03:38:39 how do I get to it? 03:38:47 click on the raw link over the left 03:38:51 after you've pasted your program 03:39:04 there we go 03:39:08 !bfjoust awful http://pastebin.ca/raw/1438923 03:39:11 Score for coppro_awful: 0.0 03:39:14 rofl 03:39:18 coppro: there's probably a syntax error 03:39:26 oshi 03:39:31 16 | + 0 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 97.2 | 18 | myndzi_3pass.bfjoust 03:39:36 god damn i've come so close to 100 points so many times 03:39:52 >(+)%128 03:39:55 it's on the first line... 03:40:00 that should be (+)*128 03:40:07 oh yeah 03:40:10 what the 03:40:11 fock 03:40:12 why use both symbols? 03:40:22 because they're different operations 03:40:42 !bfjoust awful http://pastebin.ca/raw/1438923 03:40:45 Score for coppro_awful: 0.0 03:40:50 but the {} should provide sufficient delimiting 03:40:50 coppro: that's the same link 03:41:03 yarg stupid c/p 03:41:07 !bfjoust awful http://pastebin.ca/raw/1438924 03:41:11 Score for coppro_awful: 0.0 03:41:13 well, I wrote the original parser at 3am 03:41:34 we've been found out 03:41:35 hmm 03:41:35 <(+)%128 03:41:38 the parens balance, I know that 03:41:54 oh darn 03:41:58 coppro: I just pointed out your error 03:42:04 also, what a massive program! 03:42:12 I might do a longer one, though 03:42:23 as I've decided to make an all-new-improved version of defence6 03:42:31 !bfjoust awful http://pastebin.ca/raw/1438930 03:42:34 Score for coppro_awful: 18.9 03:42:37 there we go 03:42:42 that attacks more loops than just [-] and [+] 03:43:29 i need a local interpreter to try and see why i'm tying 03:43:32 but that's ok i'll take the score 03:43:33 :> 03:44:12 aaargh can't beat this 03:44:24 agj4i !@#%$!@#$@! !@#$@#$!@ 03:51:21 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(+)*128(+.)*256(++.)*256>)*20])*20 03:51:24 Score for myndzi_keke2: 38.2 03:51:33 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(-)*128(-.)*256(-.)*256>)*20])*20 03:51:36 Score for myndzi_keke2: 42.1 03:51:37 ack 03:51:40 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(-)*128(-.)*256(--.)*256>)*20])*20 03:51:43 Score for myndzi_keke2: 34.6 03:51:46 huh 03:51:50 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(-)*128(-.)*256>)*20])*20 03:51:53 Score for myndzi_keke2: 23.8 03:52:01 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(-)*256(-.)*512>)*20])*20 03:52:04 Score for myndzi_keke2: 44.9 03:52:24 !bfjoust keke2 ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(--+)*256(-.)*512>)*20])*20 03:52:27 Score for myndzi_keke2: 33.8 03:56:43 CRITICAL SUCCESS 03:59:16 ais523: in enigma, how do you get past a window? 03:59:47 coppro: hit it at a medium speed 03:59:51 too slow = it doesn't break 03:59:54 too fast = you break too 03:59:55 ok 04:04:34 keke2's doin alright too lol 04:04:40 i stopped codespamming the window 04:04:51 but last revision: ->>>>>>>>>(>[(-.+(-.)*256(+.)*256>)*20])*20 04:05:10 turns out i was experimenting with timing attacks that were unnecessary 04:05:19 just needed to be sure to sit on 0 two turns 04:06:45 leonid_: you realize your code doesn't even make sense right? :P 04:06:52 you're setting a "decoy" on your flag 04:07:05 and 37 iterations of > will be more than enough to run you off the edge 04:07:20 i know 04:07:27 i'm trying to get some luck 04:07:28 just checkin ;p 04:08:01 luck-based code FTW 04:19:59 .... 04:21:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:47:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 04:55:36 ugh 04:57:10 wtfwtf 04:57:11 lol 04:57:24 i accidentally pasted slowrush on the end of 3pass and it improved its score 04:57:25 no 100% 04:57:33 :( 04:57:40 even though it should have gone off the end 04:58:28 ah 04:58:32 i had my number wrong 05:01:40 :( 05:03:27 laffo 05:03:34 but if i change keke to 21 instead of 20 it loses points 05:04:04 probably different counts at the start 05:07:15 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:07:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:08:57 aha, I just figured out why apparently pointless changes to a program can change its win percentage 05:09:06 do tell 05:09:08 it seems that the random-number generator is seeded with hashes of the programs 05:09:15 yes 05:09:16 LOL 05:09:19 that's what i was exploiting 05:09:25 i've been watching leonid twiddle dots for a while 05:09:33 who in their right mind would do that though 05:09:33 :\ 05:09:37 what happened to randomize timer 05:09:42 :/ 05:09:49 i'm not idiot 05:09:50 (lol basic) 05:10:04 that'll definitely have to be fixed 05:11:22 lol putting a ',' boosts my point 05:14:08 you should fix this quickly to prevent me to get a high rank :p 05:14:15 heh 05:14:17 prevent me from* 05:14:21 he can't fix it, it's GregorR-L's bot 05:14:27 hmmm 05:14:32 also it looks like no matter how much you randomize it you can't get #1 05:14:40 at some point there's nothing you can do ;) 05:14:45 i know 05:14:47 :p 05:14:52 i win some i lose some 05:15:02 but at least i can stop trying to fix the "bugs" that are earning me losses, heh 05:15:13 at this point i'm not quite sure what the original program was supposed to be 05:15:18 this junk gets me rank 2 05:15:19 .....,,,,,(>(-)*18)*9([(-)*22[+]]>)*18 05:15:24 heh 05:15:32 :) 05:15:43 now a real exploit would be 05:16:04 >>>>>>>>>>(-)*128and a bunch of text here to tweak the hash so they all come out exactly in the right spot 05:16:06 ;) 05:16:39 yeah 05:16:47 well 05:16:52 i'm bfjoust n00b 05:16:54 need to study more 05:16:56 dam 05:26:10 damn what am I doing 05:26:28 -!- leonid_ has quit ("Leaving"). 05:26:51 -!- leonid_ has joined. 05:28:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:29:11 hey 05:29:23 yo 05:29:40 !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*128)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2 05:29:43 Score for Patashu_lazy: 48.5 05:29:44 !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21 05:29:47 Score for Patashu_matador: 37.6 05:29:48 !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20 05:29:51 Score for Patashu_waiter: 37.8 05:29:52 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29 05:29:55 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 26.0 05:29:56 cycling :) 05:31:26 which does you no good as we have learned :P 05:31:37 who is this 'we' 05:31:41 oh 05:31:43 you just joined 05:31:48 yup 05:31:53 apparently the RNG is based on hashed program contents 05:32:00 I know that 05:32:03 so no matter how many times you submit it, if you don't change it, you'll get the same results 05:32:04 you always get the same result 05:32:10 but these programs weren't on the hill until just then 05:32:22 oh, when you said 'cycling' i thought you meant something else 05:32:37 it's the cycle of get pushed off when hill is unfavourable, wait, push onto hill when favourable 05:32:39 basically 05:32:43 pft :P 05:32:53 how about the cycle of write a program that doesn't get pushed off as easy ;) 05:32:59 that's step 2 05:33:03 though to be fair, there was some fuckery earlier that probably knocked things off 05:33:08 comes some time after I just step into the door :P 05:33:11 yeah? do tell 05:33:15 patashu 05:33:18 yo 05:33:29 eh, a bunch of duplicates that were getting all ties 05:33:35 the RNG being based on hash values 05:33:35 aa 05:33:40 lead to a serious problem 05:33:43 the scoring placed them mid-hill so i'm sure a number of things that actually .. i dunno, played, got knocked off 05:33:45 like my code becoming rank 2 05:33:47 !bfjoust lols ....,,,,(>(-)*18)*9(>[-[+]])*18 05:33:49 Score for leonid__lols: 75.6 05:34:14 no fun 05:34:18 you made code that works best for a certain field length 05:34:28 then kept trying trivial permutations until it got that field length when it needed it? 05:34:37 pretty much 05:34:50 yes 05:35:01 word on the street is that it's being rewritten to run with all 21 lengths, then with one of the program's polarity flipped, then the remaining 21 lengths 05:35:03 blinding adds ','s 05:35:14 blindly adding ','s* 05:35:15 omg 05:35:48 yeah, that'll really change the current game, hopefully make it more stable 05:35:53 and more focused on writing code 05:38:46 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:38:49 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 45.6 05:38:51 nope 05:38:52 hmm 05:38:57 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-].])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:00 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 40.8 05:39:02 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-]+])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:05 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 16.4 05:39:06 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-]-])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:09 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 12.3 05:39:14 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-].+])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:17 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 13.3 05:39:18 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-].-])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:22 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 9.3 05:39:31 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-][+]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:34 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 24.2 05:39:38 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-]-[+]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:42 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 20.9 05:39:48 why are all these permutations so BAD ARGH 05:39:52 gonna choke a bitch 05:39:56 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++)*8(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:39:59 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 42.1 05:40:55 it beats lols anyway 05:41:06 and lols3 05:41:23 i'm doing hashing stuff with lols 05:41:28 and not caring about 2 and 3 05:42:16 !bfjoust lolscounter (>(+)*8)(>(-)*8)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:42:19 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 0.0 05:42:24 oh I see 05:42:29 !bfjoust lolscounter (>(+)*8>(-)*8)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:42:33 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 36.6 05:42:35 hmm 05:42:49 because now it doesn't beat lols 05:42:56 !bfjoust lolscounter (>++>--)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:42:59 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 42.2 05:43:11 !bfjoust lolscounter (>+++>---)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:43:14 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 44.1 05:43:28 !bfjoust lolscounter (>--->+++)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:43:31 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 50.2 05:44:04 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:44:07 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 51.9 05:44:55 why is [+[-]] so effective? 05:44:58 we need some bf joust science in here 05:45:26 because it's reasonably fast and skips small decoys 05:46:50 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-]+])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:46:52 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 5.9 05:46:55 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-].])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:46:58 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 45.7 05:47:04 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-]-])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:07 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 16.7 05:47:17 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-].+])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:21 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 17.4 05:47:23 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-].-])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:26 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 12.9 05:47:27 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-]..])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:30 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 55.9 05:47:32 :o 05:47:34 jackpot 05:47:46 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*17[+[-]..])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:49 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 33.4 05:47:52 heh 05:47:53 !bfjoust lolscounter (>---->++++)*4(>(+)*18[[-]..])*21(+)*1024(-)*1024(+-)*1024(-+)*1024 05:47:54 !bfjoust defend9 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439042 05:47:56 Score for Patashu_lolscounter: 61.4 05:48:04 uh oh 05:48:04 lol 05:48:08 why don't I get a score? 05:48:10 Score for ais523_defend9: 46.1 05:48:12 yep, i'm totally not going to bother with this until the random gets fixed 05:48:13 it's calculating it still 05:48:19 so I wanted to ask 05:48:28 the defends work by waiting until your flag is under attack 05:48:32 !bfjoust lols ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(>(-)*18)*9(>[-[+]])*18 05:48:35 Score for leonid__lols: 64.8 05:48:37 then going back and forth and attacking the other side of the map while keeping your flag off 0? 05:48:37 look 05:48:40 it has no point 05:48:54 christ wtf are you guys doing 05:49:05 fucking with hashvalues 05:49:14 leonid is anyway 05:49:15 my program beats keke2, slowrush, lols, and lols3 05:49:23 it's beaten 3pass too, in my tests at home 05:49:24 rule out mine 05:49:26 mine is a cheat 05:49:29 just it doesn't on short tapes 05:49:32 nevermind. this is all completely ridiculous. :P 05:49:42 we are the philosopher god kings of bfjoust 05:49:45 not 05:49:46 you just can't comphrend our genius 05:49:54 well, obviously since i don't have a local interpreter and have only been using the bot 05:49:58 patashu: *retardedness 05:50:01 you spelled comprehend wrong 05:50:03 :B 05:50:04 it would seem that my optimizations are probably crap 05:50:18 you can do a lot of it with just thought experiments 05:50:19 since they're more likely randomness exploits 05:50:24 myndzi, put some ','s at the end lmao 05:50:27 heh 05:50:29 thought experiments are fun 05:50:30 i'm not gonna stoop to that 05:50:38 especially if you put on thought lab coats and use thought chemicals 05:50:49 woa 05:50:51 or THOUGHT LASERS 05:50:56 i'd rather get points based on the actual value of my code :P 05:51:04 everythings better with lasers. ESPECIALLY thought experiments 05:51:16 actually yeah it would be good if it ran every permutation instead of using hash-based randomness 05:51:42 or just use randomness NOT BASED ON USER INPUT 05:51:44 :P 05:51:49 that would be even worse 05:51:50 lol 05:51:57 just resubmit the same thing 05:52:03 how about just setting the fixed tape size and revise some rule? 05:52:16 I spent several /hours/ on defend9 05:52:16 uh no 05:52:17 fixed tape size has a fixed solution 05:52:19 yes 05:52:19 thart 05:52:34 Patashu: the thing about that is 05:52:40 at least the matchups will change every time 05:52:45 with hash based on programs 05:52:54 if someone else submits their program it'll change the results 05:54:14 ... 05:54:22 it won't* 05:54:24 meh 05:54:28 you know what i mean, right!? 05:54:32 yup 05:54:33 yea 05:54:37 good! 05:54:44 Patashu: what are you doing to beat defend9 so much? 05:54:53 defend9 sucks? :) 05:54:54 I dunno 05:54:58 look at my programs 05:55:00 but yeah, i was saying it should probably be multiple samplings when i first got in here :P 05:55:05 Patashu: hardly anyone else can beat it, you beat it a lot though 05:55:19 it's not like I set anything up specifically to counter defend9 05:55:34 your guess is better than mine 05:55:35 what he's doing is not looping on it 05:55:51 also i wouldn't use that word "can" 05:55:52 only juggernaut is a non-looping attacker 05:55:52 ;) 05:56:11 okay i'm going to rewrite my code from scratch without relying on hash values 05:56:21 DUN 05:56:22 haha 05:56:22 fail 05:56:29 patashu_lazy never hits my tripwire 05:56:44 that's easily fixable 05:56:45 (-.)*128 05:56:54 oh wait 05:56:59 lazy is a non-looping attacker too yeah 05:57:09 I should be able to deal with nonloopers 05:57:15 so is rushpolarity or whatever 05:57:16 but only if the tripwire's actually hit at some point 05:57:23 nope rushpolarity loops 05:57:32 ais523: we can go back and forth on cell-specific attacks and defenses all day :P 05:57:40 i can write programs to beat your defend* series 05:57:44 well that's the point isn't it 05:57:47 and you can modify them to beat my programs 05:57:50 which i can modify to beat yours 05:57:50 etc. 05:57:55 myndzi: well, defend9 is general 05:57:57 nah, the point is to win regardless! :) 05:58:02 it detects 12 different sorts of attack loops 05:58:08 ah, tbh they are sorta tl;dr 05:58:09 and uses a lock-in-place for each of them 05:58:17 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29 05:58:21 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 30.0 05:58:22 just to check 05:58:22 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29 05:58:23 i'll have to take a closer look 05:58:27 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 22.8 05:58:33 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+.-+)*29 05:58:36 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 28.8 05:58:45 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+)*29 05:58:48 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 22.8 05:58:51 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-+)*29 05:58:52 hmm 05:58:54 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 22.8 05:58:57 i don't know how you can say it 'detects' anything when it's sitting on a [] though? 05:59:06 i guess by reading the aftermath to the right of your tripwire eh 05:59:08 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29 05:59:08 myndzi: it has two tripwires 05:59:12 forensics! 05:59:12 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 28.6 05:59:21 huh hang on, so... 05:59:22 ha, i knew that word would catch on btw :) 05:59:22 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+.-+)*29 05:59:25 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 29.4 05:59:26 it times the difference in time it takes the enemy to trip the second, compared to the first 05:59:27 there 05:59:29 ok 05:59:38 and by using the timing, it works out how many instructions the opponent has in its main loop 05:59:51 whoops it got pushed off already :) 05:59:51 heh 05:59:54 that's pretty neat 06:00:03 haha 06:00:06 interestingly enough, i was playing with a counter to that earlier 06:00:06 this is how you use brainfuck 06:00:14 huge unwieldy constructs to solve simple problems 06:00:14 an attacker that tries multiple different timings in the attack 06:00:15 :) 06:00:36 !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*256)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2 06:00:42 Score for Patashu_lazy: 15.2 06:00:47 !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*129)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2 06:00:52 Score for Patashu_lazy: 40.4 06:01:29 you know with the sheer -length- of defend9, shade, etc 06:01:33 oh, that's what the ([)*s are about 06:01:37 I think we need a bfjoust metalanguage 06:01:41 to express such immense constructs 06:01:43 myndzi: I did it with ([{}]) first 06:01:48 Patashu: that was kinda the point of () 06:01:51 but despite the program being correct, egojoust couldn't parse it 06:01:54 that only handles one kind of expansion 06:01:55 ais523: yeah, i didn't think ([) was supposed to work 06:01:57 wtf is this bf shorthand i'm seeing 06:02:02 unaseptable 06:02:05 bsmntbombdood: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 06:02:13 it doesn't handle something like (foo)*9(bar)*8(foo)*10(bar)*7... 06:02:15 or w/e 06:02:17 defend9 is autogenerated from a perl script, btw 06:02:21 aah 06:02:24 i'm not surprised 06:02:29 no I'm not either 06:02:29 i'd have done the same 06:02:29 lol 06:02:38 I don't know any perl :( 06:02:42 only know visual basic and jav 06:02:43 +a 06:02:53 you know, the idea behind defend (the back and forth) was one of the first ideas i had about this game, and i never wrote it 06:02:59 'cause i saw defend6 and was like "oh, already been done" ;) 06:03:14 so it's nice to see it work! 06:03:44 the thing about detecting the program loop speed is pretty crazy though, well done 06:03:57 guys, do any of the languages you speak say things (roughly) like this: "John is at happy" or "John is at doctor" for "John is happy" and "John is a doctor", respectively? 06:06:24 hm, that gives me something of an idea 06:08:24 but i guess it doesn't apply to defend9 06:08:32 psygnis: ORK? 06:08:33 your tripwire sits on the +20 right? 06:08:36 oh wait 06:08:44 languages... 06:12:21 !bfjoust lols < 06:12:23 !bfjoust lols2 < 06:12:23 Score for leonid__lols: 0.0 06:12:25 !bfjoust lols3 < 06:12:25 Score for leonid__lols2: 0.1 06:12:29 Score for leonid__lols3: 0.1 06:12:37 suicide is your only option 06:12:38 maybe later 06:12:59 i lost interest at all after realizing all my work was a cheat 06:13:06 admirable 06:13:12 should be fixed soon 06:13:18 i tried to set my programs back to their 'purest' forms 06:13:20 then we'll all have fun in our liberal utopia :) 06:13:21 !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21 06:13:25 Score for Patashu_matador: 31.2 06:13:27 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+.-+)*29 06:13:27 i.e. the ones that i can decide a reason for 06:13:30 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 30.8 06:13:34 I'll pop those on to replace your rather than while i was trying to beat a certain program and wasn't sure why it worked 06:13:43 (now i know why) 06:13:45 and... 06:13:45 !bfjoust electrictrain (>(+)*10)*4(>(-)*10)*5([-][-][+][+]>)*20 06:13:48 lol 06:13:49 Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 31.9 06:13:54 -!- nooga has joined. 06:13:59 i'll take those wins thx 06:13:59 ;) 06:14:22 !bfjoust lols t(-_-t)....(>'-')>....\(+_+)/(>_>) 06:14:25 Score for leonid__lols: 0.0 06:14:41 haha 06:14:44 -!- whoppix has joined. 06:14:56 btw. if it doesn't parse it's like suicide on the 0th turn 06:15:02 so < beats opfdkgpofkhf 06:15:08 !bfjoust lols t[-_-t]-....[>'-']>....\[+_+]/[>_>] 06:15:10 Score for leonid__lols: 11.2 06:15:13 good 06:15:14 that sounds backwards 06:15:19 < parses 06:15:28 so that'd suicide on the 1st turn? 06:15:32 oh wait.. "beats" 06:15:37 ....heh :( 06:15:40 oh waiyt 06:15:41 * myndzi switches polarity 06:15:43 I GET IT 06:15:43 so random symbols are fine 06:15:47 yeah 06:15:49 yeah, they are comments 06:15:51 but you can't have () without a *num 06:16:13 !bfjoust lols How the fuck do I win this shit aahrgrgarghargarjgklsajgsgslskarjagrgj 06:16:17 Score for leonid__lols: 17.5 06:16:20 oh 06:18:46 what the hell is this game? 06:18:52 Thing I was wondering about.. If one has a simple state machine, like f.ex. brainfuck, shouldn't it be relatively easy to detect infinite loops, by checksumming the machines state at the start of a loop, and after each iteration, check if the state (or any state in that loop) recurred? 06:19:03 Might be that I'm thinking wrong, I'm pretty tired already :) 06:19:20 busy beaver problem? 06:19:29 you can make arbitrarily complex work happen within an infinite loop 06:19:37 didn't turing said halting problem isn't solvable 06:19:44 by a turing machine. 06:19:44 yes. 06:19:45 it's not in the general sense 06:20:06 oh well nvm 06:20:22 Patashu, sure, I don't aim to solve the halting problem, I was just wondering if detection of simple infinite loops at runtime would work that way. 06:20:31 simple, definitely 06:20:40 suppose a language LOL has only one instruction L, which loops forever 06:20:40 you can detect some infinite loops, just not all of them 06:20:51 then one can check if a LOL program halts or not. 06:20:54 making an algorithm to detect simple infinite loops or a certain kind of infinite loop is easy 06:20:58 whoppix: ,[,.] 06:21:00 whoppix: Good luck. 06:21:39 pikhq, yeah, I know, input/output blows the whole thing up :) 06:21:54 nah 06:21:59 And that method would fail with +[>+] 06:21:59 now the human is just part of the program :) 06:21:59 whoppix: some infinite loops are impossible to detect tho, because whether they exit or not depends on changes that occurred during looping 06:22:17 and in order to determine whether or not it will ever exit, you have to RUN the loop 06:22:20 basically. 06:22:29 pikhq, not if the array of cells wraps at some point 06:22:42 Then it's a finite state automaton. 06:22:47 if its an infinite loop, obviously running it will never end, and you will never get a "no, does not exit" notification. 06:22:48 !bfjoust defend9 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439062 06:23:00 The FSA halting problem is solvable by a Turing machine. 06:23:01 ;) 06:23:03 Score for ais523_defend9: 58.9 06:23:26 I decided to improve the detection 06:23:30 * leonid_ opens the link 06:23:32 WTH 06:23:43 and also, there's a small change to block patashu_lazy-like strategies 06:23:47 psygnisfive, yes, that was the intention - run it, and then check for a recurring state. If the state doesn't change, and there is no input in the loop, well, it must be infinite. 06:23:48 it's generated in perl 06:23:54 patashu_lazy is the laziest program 06:23:55 :) 06:24:01 pikhq: thats because all non-TMs halt :P 06:24:11 although I see patashu_lazy beats it anyway 06:24:14 whoppix: its not just about recurring state 06:24:15 hah 06:24:18 you dont need recurring state at all 06:24:24 a change too small 06:24:30 oh well, I shall just have to wait for it to fall off 06:24:36 unless you updated with *129, or something 06:24:39 psygnisfive: No. +[] is valid on a non-TC Brainfuck. 06:24:43 And it doesn't halt. 06:24:44 I did 06:24:56 psygnisfive, well, assuming that we have a limited amount of cells (wrapped or not), somewhen the state has to recur 06:24:57 pikhq: i didnt say TC, i said TM. :P 06:25:01 I'd have to set the flag to 128+71 in order to block /all/ strategies of that kind 06:25:05 and that would take too long 06:25:16 so there's always going to be some amount of changing that hits the flag, but not the tripwire 06:25:23 (given that those cells also have a max value which wraps or throws an error if you try to increase it) 06:25:25 whoppix: if you have a limited number of cells, it cant be turing complete. unless im missing something. 06:25:50 psygnisfive, sure, I never said it had to be 06:26:02 so in those cases, yes, you should be able to detect infinite loops, since itd be an FSA. 06:26:06 so: I lose to lazy, rushpolarity, speedy1, viper, and slowrush 06:26:19 !bfjoust lols http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439066 06:26:23 Score for leonid__lols: 17.5 06:26:40 Talking about halting problems, has this been posted here already? http://www.getacoder.com/projects/detect_loop_106243.html 06:26:49 made me lol. 06:27:02 the loss to viper is a misdetection 06:27:06 psygnisfive: But there are things that don't halt that aren't Turing machines! 06:27:11 oops lol 06:27:19 I changed lazy so it doesn't beat defend9 but it beats more things overall 06:27:23 ((lambda (x x)) (lambda (x x))) ;! 06:27:36 but it might be because of ~~~:'(HASH BASED RANDOMNESS:'(~~ 06:28:30 as is the loss to speedy1, but despite the misdetection it would still win if the tape length were just right, by coincidence 06:28:32 * Patashu lols at the link 06:28:54 !bfjoust lols http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439069 06:28:56 Score for leonid__lols: 0.0 06:28:59 :/ 06:29:03 haha 06:29:04 the loss to slowrush is because slowrush is so slow in reducing a value to 0 the tripwire timing doesn't work 06:29:36 hey question 06:29:43 if it's modified to run all tape lengths and both polarities 06:29:50 should all tape length matches have equal weighting? 06:30:08 the case of 30 length in particular is interesting since you can trivially code a program to behave differently for the 30-length tape 06:30:11 pikhq: doesnt matter 06:30:22 actually, yes it does matter 06:30:22 sorry 06:30:35 anything that doesnt halt /is/ a turing machine, just not a UNIVERSAL turing machine. 06:30:48 Ah. 06:30:54 Sorry; forgot that distinction. 06:30:55 and rushpolarity acts different ways on alternate steps 06:31:02 so the detection code doesn't help there 06:31:07 ooh 06:31:10 aha :) 06:31:11 it has a purpose 06:31:19 put another way, the only way to get non-halting behavior is to have a Type-0 grammar 06:31:34 !bfjoust lol http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439071 06:31:36 i quit :/ 06:31:38 Score for leonid__lol: 18.4 06:31:50 lol 06:31:54 just wait until tomorrow 06:31:56 ignoring, ofcourse, trivial non-halting behavior like S -> S or similar. 06:31:57 or whenever it gets updated 06:32:05 leonid_: weren't you second a while ago? 06:32:15 yeah by abusing ~~~:'(HASH BASED RANDOMNESS:'(~~ 06:32:20 ah, aha 06:32:20 i was annoyed that those codes were hash code abusal 06:32:20 productions of recursive rules dont halt, but parsings of them do. 06:32:26 or can. 06:33:05 i suppose that sort of "infinite loop" is possible, but its trivial, and its the sort that is easily detectable. 06:33:08 one interesting point is that there are some programs which have hovered at around the same board position forever 06:33:11 so i guess you dont need a TM at all. 06:33:12 like defend6 06:33:20 and some which have been really near the top, then plummeted 06:33:29 like vibration_fool_fast 06:33:40 but you do need a TM for non-trivial loops. 06:33:43 rushpolarity seems to have relatively good staying power 06:33:48 yes 06:33:49 is vibration a good strategy? 06:33:55 leonid_: I'm not sure 06:34:03 if so, where's dossar when we need him 06:34:04 nvm 06:34:06 I think it might be 06:34:09 wrong community 06:34:09 lol 06:34:26 dam 06:34:27 just you'd need to combine it with something defend9-style 06:34:38 also, it's more or less defeated by the [+[-]] trick 06:34:53 what specifically does [+[-]] do? 06:34:58 * leonid_ is bf n00b 06:35:09 leonid_ alternately increases and tests for zero 06:35:15 well, no 06:35:19 it goes like this: +, -]-]-]...until cell starts at zero on the turn a ] is executed 06:35:21 then next turn it tests again 06:35:22 there are several cases 06:35:24 leonid_, increase the current cell, decrease it until its zero, increase it... 06:35:32 but it won't leave the loop until the cell is zero twice in a row 06:35:34 if it's still zero it moves on, else it goes back to the + at the start and goes into -]-]-]... again 06:35:41 ] is a nop except for testing btw 06:35:46 so the only way a vibration program could beat a [+[-]] program would be defend9-style 06:36:08 but how would it know that the enemy was in a [+[-]] loop? 06:36:17 it would have to guess, AFAICT 06:36:22 which is why vibration tends not to do well 06:36:32 [+[-]] is pretty optimal innit? 06:36:38 it's a neat strategy 06:36:41 will there be a bf code that wins every code? 06:36:48 nope lol 06:36:51 except itself 06:37:07 leonid_: I suspect any program could be beaten by another program specifically designed to beat it 06:37:27 hmm 06:37:28 basically if you're on a flag, [+[-]] won't leave until you've won 06:37:40 which means your opponent has to win first OR keep you stalled and run forward and try and win itself 06:37:41 so the only thing the opponent can do is capture your flag 06:37:43 which is what defends try to do 06:37:51 then if a person designs beatrank1 and spams it throughout the hill, the rank will be reversed 06:38:01 leonid_: but how to spam? 06:38:02 what if it ONLY beats the rank 1 program though 06:38:06 beatrank1_1 06:38:07 each of the spam programs would be eliminated 06:38:07 beatrank1_2 06:38:09 beatrank1_3 06:38:09 etc 06:38:15 unless they were good enough to beat some of the other programs already there 06:38:16 everything else beats it 06:38:19 so it can only go so high on the hill 06:38:26 as more copy programs beat the winner and nothing else 06:38:29 they'll gain less and less momentum 06:38:33 and only be able to fill spots up to a certain level 06:38:35 like a person in rank2 can do that 06:38:43 so that he would go up 06:39:15 in order to really pull off that strategy, your program would need to beat the whole hill... 06:39:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:39:39 beating the top player is a decent boost 06:39:45 but not a cincher 06:39:47 hi oerjan 06:39:52 the program has to be legitimately good for the most part 06:39:52 hi ais523 06:40:00 I've been jousting all night 06:40:02 seen my Eodermdrome program? 06:40:05 and no, I haven't 06:40:11 interp, or program written in Eodermdrome? 06:40:16 the world is sadly lacking in either 06:40:17 written in 06:40:31 although IIRC someone here wrote an Eodermdrome interp, but I've never seen it 06:40:45 * oerjan vaguely recalls oklopol mentioning it 06:40:52 oerjan: is it on Esolang? 06:40:55 yes 06:41:11 also on my home page with ASCII drawings 06:41:22 * oerjan needs to add a small comment 06:42:20 that certainly looks impressive 06:42:27 I want to test it now, and can't... 06:42:31 heh :D 06:42:32 maybe I'll write an interp of my own to test it on 06:43:00 it would be even more impressive if it happens to have no bugs of course 06:43:10 woah O_O 06:43:11 !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*20>(-)*20>(-)*20>(+)*20)*2>((+)*10[+[-]](+)*20>(-)*10[-[+]](-)*20>)*11 06:43:14 check this out 06:43:15 Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 68.4 06:43:18 woo 06:43:23 OORAH GO SWANS 06:43:44 oerjan: I like the way you tried to make your words pronouncable 06:44:32 yeah :D 06:45:02 Patashu: gah, you pushed defend9 down to fifth by making rushpolarity better 06:45:15 added comment: Note: BCT program part should be at least 3 characters long. 06:45:44 (if the current command ends in 0 and that is the whole program, the deletion and appending of it conflict 06:45:49 ) 06:45:57 A much bigger challenge would be to write an eodermdrome BCT interp which was also valid English 06:46:04 indeed 06:46:05 the whitespace deletion around punctuation was designed to make that possible 06:46:10 but it would still be pretty difficult 06:46:13 ic 06:47:00 best permutation I can find is: 06:47:00 !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*20>(-)*20>(-)*20>(+)*20)*2>((+)*20[+[-]](+)*18>(-)*20[-[+]](-)*18>)*11 06:47:01 ais523: my design just squeezes in btw, the 11/1 case uses 23 characters 06:47:04 Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 71.7 06:47:13 that's p. good 06:47:14 second place 06:47:20 oerjan: 23 /different/ characters? 06:47:22 yep 06:47:47 I'm relatively sure it would be possible to cut a long rewrite into two smaller rewrites 06:48:11 ais523: i think maybe if you handle program and data part separately that might work 06:48:30 i do each step in one substitution 06:49:17 time to go home, anyway 06:49:23 < Patashu> basically if you're on a flag, [+[-]] won't leave until you've won 06:49:32 i am a little confused as to why [[-]] doesn't seem to do that 06:49:54 the cell would have to be 0 two instructions in a row to leave that loop 06:49:59 but every time i've tried it it hasn't worked 06:52:33 might be an interp bug 06:52:39 what about [.[-]] ? 06:52:43 i was thinking possibly so 06:52:45 i don't know 06:52:45 or [X[-]] 06:52:47 try :) 06:53:28 where X is a literal X 06:53:32 just to see if the comment breaks it up XD 06:54:01 i don't know, i wouldn't really be able to tell if it works or not atm 06:54:09 i'm hesitant to twiddle the programs i already have because of the randomness thing 06:54:11 it'd be hand to tell 06:54:26 it just seems like [[-]] or [[+]] never did nearly as well as expected 06:54:37 whereas something like [-.] did much better 06:55:07 i think i'll wait till something is done about the randomness or ehird completes his interpreter 06:56:21 here's a question 06:56:34 if we changed the rule of 'flags need to be at 0 for 2 consecutive cycles' to 3 consecutive cycles 06:56:39 how would it change the nature of the game? 06:57:17 probably about the same as my suggestion to have [] test at the end instead of beginning of a cycle 06:57:27 or actually, you could do something like have [ test at the start and ] at the end, possibly 06:57:36 anyway, it would enable someone to sit on their flag and react when it became 0 06:57:44 oh yeah 06:57:46 I see 06:57:54 you get 1 turn reaction 06:57:54 ais523: a reasonably efficient Eodermdrome interpreter probably needs to be somewhat clever, since the language is based on an NP-complete problem 06:57:56 which would either give rise to a bunch of ties, unbeatable programs, or add a new aspect and some variety 06:58:46 what about loop while the enemy pointer is here/loop while the enemy pointer is not here? 06:58:53 one of those was in fyb 06:59:00 but that was also multipointer 06:59:54 i think that would just give rise to either ties or uselessness at first blush 07:00:02 i mean, what would you use it for? obviously, keeping them from taking your flag 07:00:05 * myndzi shrugs 07:00:27 technically bfjoust is turing complete...err, bounded state machine :) 07:00:27 hmmmmm 07:00:38 it's obvious that if one can tell exactly when and where the enemy pointer is, and react to it, they can wait until you leave and then win 07:00:42 but you're also limited on how much time you have to do computation in, and the manner of input you can expect 07:00:43 thus you would never leave since you can tell when they are waiting 07:00:49 and so the best you can hope for is a tie 07:01:09 * leonid_ 's brains can't understand the essence of bfjoust 07:01:20 leonid 07:01:25 have you ever looked at the brainfuck algorithms page? 07:01:26 what 07:01:29 most of them aren't directly applicable to bfjoust 07:01:29 more or less; i suppose you can do defend style trickery, if you decided to try and time things, then you basically have two programs struggling to get a timing that throws the other one off 07:01:40 but really it seems like you'd just end with less variety 07:01:46 but it shows how interesting bf actually is as a language 07:01:49 bf algo page? 07:01:52 so simple and unwieldly-looking but turing complete 07:01:53 yeah sec 07:01:55 there's already not exactly an overwhelming variety to begin with :P 07:02:13 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms 07:02:30 cool 07:02:40 i think if you want to add something, if !0 or if 0 would be good starts. yeah, you can do it with looping brackets, but to do so requires a lot of extra code that just ends up being baggage to the interpreter 07:03:00 ifs with elses or regular ifs? 07:03:05 most other comparisons would require two fields which is even more un-bflike 07:03:23 just regular ifs, i should think, but hey while you're fucking up brainfuck, elses too 07:03:23 :P 07:03:35 let's also add LT and GT! 07:03:42 augh...literals 07:03:43 and SUB! 07:03:44 in my brainfuck 07:03:46 wait, how about DIV 07:03:47 :D 07:03:51 sit on their flag and div by 2 07:03:59 yeah was going to say 07:04:05 nothing that can alter a cell value by more than 1 is fair 07:04:18 i'm obviously being facetious :P 07:04:22 oh phew 07:04:31 i think bfjoust worked out well 07:04:37 of course if it hadn't none of us would still be caring 07:04:48 i don't think there's much you can do to "fix it" 07:05:30 well later on 07:05:33 we could experiment 07:05:38 code in a different opcode every few days 07:05:49 i don't think opcodes is the thing to experiment with really 07:06:00 the framework seems a better choice 07:06:05 the goal, the environment, etc. 07:06:14 the environment of bfjoust? 07:06:22 i mean the 10-30 cells 07:06:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:06:25 or what they are initialized to 07:06:31 or how you can lose 07:06:34 that sort of thing 07:06:36 how you can lose maybe 07:06:41 I think it would be interesting to make suicide NOT a loss 07:06:43 but just noping forever 07:06:48 for example, making it wrap around.. 07:06:52 haha 07:06:53 would affect things weirdly 07:06:53 :o 07:06:58 yes that too 07:07:00 but at least keep it a playable game, i think 07:07:06 extend forever or wrap around or falling off is nopping forever 07:07:09 that's three alternatives 07:07:15 extend forever is just silly 07:07:28 you could have it sweep back and forth though 07:07:32 go to cell 30 then reverse 07:07:32 make it so once you've zeroed their flag you have to take it back to your "base"! 07:07:34 ;) 07:07:40 sorta 07:07:44 that would nullify lots of strategies 07:07:57 can't make an omlette etc etc 07:07:58 and everyone'd end up writing huge code like defend 07:08:11 and these would all be temporary changes 07:08:12 'cause that's about the only way you can limit the number of cycles or keep track of where you are 07:08:14 to see who can adapt to each change best 07:08:15 y'know? 07:08:23 once there's not much left to do in original bfjoust (should that day come) 07:08:26 better held as mini tournaments 07:08:29 ya 07:08:34 not in place of the existing bot 07:08:39 sorta like some of the corewars events 07:08:44 yea 07:08:45 ? 07:08:49 what do they do 07:09:03 there've been corewars tournaments held where somebody came up with a unique idea/twist 07:09:08 and people wrote programs to submit to them 07:09:26 they play out, winner wins, that's that :P 07:09:31 the hill setup is a lot more interactive 07:09:36 (and putting it as an irc bot even more so) 07:09:51 there's a lot more spamming the hill with multiple slight changes going on here than it seems happens with corewars 07:10:09 of course, most of us don't have local interpreters and debugging environments to get stuff done in before submitting i guess 07:10:15 yeah :) 07:10:16 haha 07:17:33 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:17:47 I'm pondering what kind of strategy I haven't tried yet 07:17:49 how do we calculate sqrt with bf 07:17:56 besides something I need to compile from a higher level language 07:18:08 leonid: it's possible because bf is turing complete but I dunno offhand o.O 07:18:30 I know you can do ^2 by copying a number and then multiplying it with itself 07:21:25 hmm 07:21:36 and there's code for doing relational operators so 07:21:50 you could implement a slow sqrt by squaring each natural number and comparing it to the original number 07:22:15 until it's greater than then use the number one before that 07:22:46 and I'm sure you can optimize it from there 07:24:57 !bfjoust ugh (>(+-)*10000)*20(>[-[+]])*10 07:25:01 Score for leonid__ugh: 12.2 07:25:23 !bfjoust ugh nah arghaurgarubjnargefo 07:25:26 try removing the first > then multiply the last step by 30 07:25:26 Score for leonid__ugh: 16.8 07:25:35 hmmm 07:25:46 !bfjoust ugh (+-)*200000(>[-[+]])*30 07:25:50 Score for leonid__ugh: 18.6 07:25:58 just so you know it's limited to 100k cycles atm 07:25:58 uh a little better ?_? 07:26:09 !bfjoust ugh (+-)*900000(>[-[+]])*30 07:26:12 lol 07:26:12 Score for leonid__ugh: 18.6 07:26:18 -!- nooga_ has joined. 07:26:22 try *40000 07:26:26 bfjoust ugh (+-)*9999999999999999999999999999999999999(>[-[+]])*30 07:26:44 lol 07:26:48 i think i'm addicted 07:27:05 gj it overflows a long long 07:27:16 * leonid_ didn't run it 07:27:21 oh 07:27:22 lol 07:27:23 :D 07:27:39 it ALMOST overflows a long long long 07:27:41 go for the trifecta 07:27:49 '?_? 07:27:59 2^128 07:28:52 bfjoust ugh (+-)*`ruby -e'p 2**128'`(>[-[+]])*30 07:28:54 oh wait 07:29:01 would that work haha 07:29:02 I think it's in c 07:29:08 i know 07:29:47 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:30:04 bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*20(<)*20)*10 07:30:14 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*20(<)*20)*10 07:30:17 Score for leonid__ugh: 31.6 07:30:20 oh nice 07:30:20 interesting 07:30:30 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*25(<)*25)*10 07:30:34 Score for leonid__ugh: 32.5 07:30:40 aah i'm using hash again 07:30:43 no 07:30:45 it's not the hash lol 07:30:50 that's an actual mechanical change 07:30:52 cheer up bro 07:30:53 no i mean 07:30:55 uh 07:31:04 um 07:31:05 nvm 07:31:08 :D 07:31:12 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<)*30)*10 07:31:15 Score for leonid__ugh: 36.4 07:31:22 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<)*30)*100 07:31:26 Score for leonid__ugh: 27.7 07:31:28 nah 07:31:50 why not just 07:31:58 (>[-[+]])*29 07:31:59 lol 07:32:04 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*29(<)*29)*10 07:32:07 Score for leonid__ugh: 26.6 07:32:10 if you go all the way to the end of the tape with a [-[+]] construct 07:32:13 and it ends you know you've hit the flag 07:32:31 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<[-[+]])*30)*10 07:32:34 Score for leonid__ugh: 34.1 07:33:32 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*20(<[-[+]])*20)*100 07:33:36 Score for leonid__ugh: 19.3 07:33:40 !@#!$(@&$( 07:33:55 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:34:10 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<[-[+]])*30(-)*100000)*10 07:34:13 Score for leonid__ugh: 29.9 07:34:27 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<[-[+]])*30(+-)*100000)*10 07:34:29 Score for leonid__ugh: 25.8 07:35:03 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<[-[+]])*30(+)*100000)*10 07:35:05 Score for leonid__ugh: 30.5 07:35:09 ;p 07:35:27 !bfjoust ugh ((>[-[+]])*30(<)*30(+)*100000)*10 07:35:30 Score for leonid__ugh: 34.1 07:36:42 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*5(>)*5(>[-[+]])*15(<)*30)*10 07:36:45 Score for leonid__ugh: 55.4 07:36:48 nice 07:37:00 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*30)*10 07:37:03 Score for leonid__ugh: 47.1 07:37:07 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29)*10 07:37:09 Score for leonid__ugh: 62.3 07:37:12 cool 07:37:26 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29(-)*100000)*10 07:37:29 Score for leonid__ugh: 44.6 07:37:30 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29(-)*10000)*10 07:37:33 Score for leonid__ugh: 54.6 07:37:45 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*8(>[-[+]])*14(<)*30)*10 07:37:49 Score for leonid__ugh: 37.4 07:37:58 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*5(>[-[+]])*10(<)*25)*10 07:38:01 Score for leonid__ugh: 30.3 07:38:06 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29)*10 07:38:08 Score for leonid__ugh: 62.3 07:38:10 hmmm 07:38:43 why does my code always beat slowrush lmao 07:39:44 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<[-[+]])*29)*10 07:39:48 Score for leonid__ugh: 64.5 07:39:51 hmmm 07:40:01 second place lol 07:40:02 k rank 2 again lol 07:40:09 argh 07:40:43 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*6(>[-[+]])*15(<[-[+]])*27)*10 07:40:44 ?_? 07:40:45 Score for leonid__ugh: 39.6 07:40:51 nah constants 07:40:59 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<[-[+]])*29)*10 07:41:02 Score for leonid__ugh: 64.5 07:41:12 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*31>(-)*31)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<[-[+]])*29)*10 07:41:15 Score for leonid__ugh: 32.4 07:41:26 k going to spam EgoBot via PM 07:44:50 -!- olsner has joined. 07:49:43 ode to bfjoust 07:50:03 you know, decoy setup time vs attack setup time is an arms race 07:50:19 it's only useful to make bigger decoys because people have bigger attack setup because people make bigger decoys because... 07:52:28 -!- whoppix has quit ("Verlassend"). 07:54:23 fuck 07:54:35 Patashu: i've never seen you here? 07:54:41 i mean 07:54:53 excemp this day an yesterday 07:54:58 except* 07:55:06 and* 07:55:26 yup I recently migrated here 07:55:30 oh 07:55:48 i've been here (probably) from the begining 07:56:08 i moved from anagol 07:56:13 with a little gap 07:56:14 same 07:56:26 (2 years?) 07:56:46 where are you from? btw 07:56:50 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29)*37 07:56:51 no 07:56:52 Score for leonid__ugh: 72.3 07:56:54 ( i moved from anagol) <-- same 07:56:55 i know that 37 is bs 07:57:06 omg i'm using hash again 07:57:08 aargarghargh 07:57:10 i mean the country :P 07:57:14 country 07:57:15 me korea 07:57:15 Australia 07:57:26 you know he's korean because he's good at rhythm games 07:57:27 but...wait... 07:57:30 I'm good at rhythm games too O_O 07:57:32 wrong community 07:57:37 it's still true 07:57:37 ;p 07:57:47 haha i'm rank 1 07:58:01 *dances* 07:58:16 hanguk :D 07:58:31 hancock 07:58:51 i've tried to learn that script 07:58:58 which script 07:59:12 hangul (hanguk?) 07:59:15 oh 07:59:20 learn it it's easy 07:59:31 quite strict 07:59:33 ./sarcasm 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:31 i'd rather use .* 08:00:46 ;p 08:00:48 xml 08:00:49 feisty 08:00:56 OS X 08:00:57 :D 08:00:58 def sarcasm() 08:01:02 exit 08:01:04 end 08:02:20 doh 08:02:26 amphetamine 08:02:41 too bad there's no "age" stat on the hill 08:02:50 that'd be almost more useful/interesting than points at the moment 08:02:52 that would be good 08:03:12 i guess we could always calculate it from the logs 08:03:23 but that wouldn't include replacement programs 08:03:23 myndzi: are you also from #anagol? 08:03:31 no 08:03:35 on this network? 08:03:47 anagol 08:03:49 more like 08:03:50 embedgol 08:04:06 anyway, my nick's been registered for some time but i didn't really come to this network until #corewars did 08:04:30 but i've never been in #anagol 08:06:22 uh' 08:06:26 new ppl :D 08:06:53 myndzi: deutsch? 08:22:28 brb nap 08:22:40 * leonid_ jumps into the bed 08:23:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:30:31 amphetamine 08:36:23 -!- lereah_ has joined. 08:41:54 ... 08:42:07 ::: 08:42:29 oh, oerjan 08:43:19 ssh, i'm here incognito 08:43:52 did you sleep this night? ;p 08:44:11 yes, badly 08:44:23 congrats 08:44:31 i didn't 08:44:46 condolences 08:44:59 (condols?) 08:45:19 that's appropriate 08:45:45 condols sounds a bit like condoms 08:46:41 maybe to a pole, i hear you do strange things with l's 08:46:53 * oerjan ducks 08:46:59 really? 08:47:26 l in Polish is like l in lame 08:47:42 we have ł 08:48:22 oerjan: the strange things are done to a different l 08:48:23 but it's like wa in watch 08:48:29 yeah if that's not doing strange things with l's i don't know what would count 08:48:58 the poor thing is speared! 08:49:05 point is, they're doing it to Ł, not L :) 08:49:07 ? :O 08:49:26 olsner: shh, you 08:49:57 oerjan: have some sour milk, weird norwegian guy 08:50:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:50:14 sorry, allergic to milk 08:50:22 olsner: that makes me think that you're weird 08:50:25 how is milk involved? 08:50:34 i hate milk 08:50:34 oerjan: I'm intolerant to milk, as it happens 08:50:41 ais523: I involved it, I'm pouring it over oerjan 08:50:41 well that. 08:50:45 it's unhealthy to drink milk, for adults 08:50:45 * myndzi sighs 08:50:46 not quite the same as being allergic, but it's still unwise for me to drink too much 08:50:48 aayyyeeh! 08:50:54 leonid_: i thought you decided better than to f* around with the rng 08:50:54 :P 08:51:05 ais523: i started reacting to it a few years ago 08:51:14 kurwa mać 08:51:28 since last spring i've had to cut it out 08:51:29 kurwa is the only useful polish word I can pronounce 08:51:40 olsner: and you're? 08:51:44 what does kurwa mean? 08:51:49 ummm 08:51:50 my two programs gain 10 and 12 points just for breaking from the tape length you managed to force with your nonsensical program :\ 08:51:57 somethink like bitch 08:52:07 but it's used like fuck in english 08:52:12 hard to translate 08:52:18 *g 08:52:24 you mean fuck as in fornication? :P 08:52:30 force? 08:52:35 or fuck as an exclamation 08:52:41 hehehe 08:52:51 I've been told it's also a cognate of scandinavian 'kurva' (which simply means a bend in a road) 08:53:06 Polish cursewords are quite complez 08:53:10 complex 08:53:28 you can create new oneswhen you need 08:53:35 sweet 08:53:37 every language needs that 08:53:38 :) 08:54:09 zajebiście ~= zakurwiście ~= something like awesome 08:54:12 olsner: not cognate, kurva is from latin curvus 08:54:29 jebać is also a word that you can use to create maaaany cursewords 08:54:37 maybe the polish also borrowed it, or it could be polish/latin cognate 08:54:43 it means, literally: to fuck 08:54:50 oh yes 08:54:56 (but germanic would have turned c/k -> h) 08:55:00 you can certainly create many curse (phrases) with a verb like that ;) 08:55:23 oh wait slavic languages are "satem" group, so they wouldn't keep k either 08:55:29 i think 08:55:30 zajebać = to kill someone, to steal sth; wyjebać = to beat someone, rozjebać = to break sth 08:55:39 najebać (komuś) = to beat someone 08:55:48 przyjebać, also 08:55:50 wyjebać jebać! 08:56:08 przejebane = something is fucked up 08:56:08 i paste together nonsensical polish phrases! 08:56:26 wyjebane = something is awesme 08:56:38 rozjebane = something is broken 08:56:41 etc. 08:56:44 how do you even pronounce "prze"? 08:56:49 hmmm 08:56:51 oerjan: wiktionary says kurwa comes from proto-slavic *kury, from proto-indo-european *kowr-, which they say is a cognate with Latin caurio 08:56:54 gimme a sec 08:56:55 well, that's a silly question 08:57:01 (meaning prostitute) 08:57:04 obviously you pronounce it like you would say it :P 08:57:08 olsner: ah, not the same word then 08:57:14 a bit like english: ptche 08:57:17 curvus <- PIE (s)ker 08:57:26 hm 08:57:31 words mutate in Polish 08:57:41 interesting at least 08:57:55 nooga_: words mutate everywhere 08:57:57 ptcheyebane 08:58:01 just not in the same way 08:58:05 oh 08:58:07 no 08:58:17 at least not in Norwegian AFAIK 08:58:22 i guess that's what you get when you import an alphabet(?) 08:58:29 it's the consonant cluster that is throwing me for a loop 08:58:29 um what do you mean by mutate? 08:58:34 is that supposed to be all one syllable? 08:58:37 ewll 08:58:43 well* 08:58:54 since 'p' and 't' are both plosives(?), you can't do them at the same time 08:59:03 heck, 'ch' is too 08:59:04 :\ 08:59:18 hard to explain in english 08:59:23 so i'm imagining some sort of fricative 'p' sound 08:59:24 hehe 08:59:32 yeah, i bet 08:59:41 * oerjan sics a pterosaur on myndzi 08:59:42 * myndzi sics a pterosaur on oerjan 08:59:50 I always say "plosive" like "ppppplosive" 08:59:51 (ha you tricky person, silent p!) 09:00:01 \o/ \o| 09:00:02 | | 09:00:02 |\ /< 09:00:15 myndzi: it wasn't silent in greek 09:00:33 \o_,- _,-o/ en garde! 09:00:33 | | 09:00:33 /´\ /< 09:00:43 woot, irc-fencing 09:00:48 :D 09:01:03 almost as exciting as irc-pong 09:01:20 Or that IRC interactive adventure we did :D 09:01:41 heh, I remember that 09:01:47 *the original greek 09:02:07 must be two syllables then i guess 09:02:17 norwegian doesn't pronounce pt, but we do a mean kn 09:02:17 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/Basic_grammar << that's not all 09:02:54 myndzi: chew on this _georgian_ surname: mgrvgrvladje 09:02:55 at least kn don't conflict :D 09:02:59 haha oh my 09:03:02 oerjan: Hungarian is fun, people will try to pronounce anything in that 09:03:12 because suffices never change the stem of the word 09:03:16 and you can string many of them together 09:03:40 the suffixes aren't really that clustered with consonants, though 09:03:41 you've got basically 5 tenses, 12 declensions, 2 pages, 6 conjugations and some other things 09:03:49 iirc 09:03:57 and regional variants 09:04:26 i've heard that Polish is second hardest language, after Finnish 09:04:43 does that mean every word comes in 920 forms? 09:04:44 hardest to use or hardest to learn? 09:04:49 but i know Polish so idk 09:04:58 olsner: probably not every 09:05:14 declensions apply to verbs 09:05:20 conjugations apply to nouns 09:05:21 how can finnish be hard, it's agglutinating 09:05:44 ah, ok, not as bad as I thought then :P 09:05:55 it's fucked up 09:05:59 hardest in europe, _maybe_, but i'm sure there are far worse elsewhere 09:06:02 nooga_: Navajo is generally considered to be one of the hardest languages in existence 09:06:12 i've tried to learn rusiian 09:06:16 russian* 09:06:24 the US military used to use unencrypted Navajo as a secret code 09:06:28 they say it's A BIT simmilar 09:06:31 they had to hire native speakers to translate... 09:06:45 but russian declensions ate me 09:06:51 and this stupid srcipt 09:06:55 script* 09:07:18 How does LaTex work? 09:07:25 like LISP 09:07:29 ;D 09:07:36 It won't accept any extra space or newlines 09:07:43 with shitloads ofg macros 09:07:52 of* 09:07:53 damn 09:07:54 What are the macros for that shit? 09:07:57 lereah_: there are lots of spacing commands 09:08:01 ~~ 09:08:02 I know it's supposed to format automatically 09:08:10 But what are the basic commands for that 09:08:15 ~ 09:08:36 Lessee 09:08:54 * nooga_ amphetamine :C 09:09:13 Hm. 09:09:18 It doesn't do shit 09:09:32 idk ;p 09:09:41 lereah_: \hspace{...} and \vspace{...} at least 09:09:58 thx 09:10:03 but the contents are special length units 09:10:08 em and such 09:10:12 my read beard is awful 09:10:21 red* 09:10:25 FFFFFFUUUUU 09:10:30 Reading beards. 09:10:36 i think i should sleep 09:11:39 my grey matter is black atm 09:12:16 hmm... wouldn't that mean you were particularly brainy 09:12:28 in the brain, the grey matter does the thinking, and the white matter sends messages long-distance 09:14:19 i'm retarded all the time 09:14:29 my IQ went from 137 to 50 09:14:40 and i don't know why 09:14:40 ais523: no it would mean he were scatterbrained as the parts couldn't communicate ;D 09:14:53 i forgot basic words in englis, as well as in Polish 09:15:10 really, really annoying 09:15:39 englis iss so had 09:16:13 yesss i cannot spik 09:16:43 my mac keyboard does not help though 09:24:08 "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." 09:24:38 heh 09:25:03 if you've ever tried to program in Java, you'll know how badly it needs lambda 09:25:11 *by having them 09:25:11 ? 09:25:31 Java doesn't have lambdas 09:25:37 at least, didn't when I last looked 09:25:42 I mean 09:25:50 lambdas are obscure right 09:25:56 and java doesn't have them 09:25:56 you have to create anonymous classes to have the function you want as a method, which is ridiculous 09:25:58 if that statement was correct lambdas wouldn't be obscure 09:26:01 and lambdas aren't really obscure nowadays 09:26:04 o 09:26:14 they're all over the place, even in some of Microsoft's langs 09:26:17 even Python has them 09:28:45 OBSCURE?! 09:28:48 gimme a break 09:29:19 lambdas are the coolest thing that exists in modern mixed paradigm langs 09:29:23 Patashu: if you consider yourself a programmer and don't regularly come across lambdas, learn a new language 09:29:39 oops 09:29:42 guess I shouldn't have learned java then 09:29:45 although you might end up not repeatedly using them (say if you write in C, probably using a lambda is too high-level), it's common to drown in them 09:30:07 Patashu: in Java, where do you put your callback functions for Swing/AWT/ 09:30:14 s/\/$/?/ 09:30:16 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:31:17 that's one of the situations in Java where a lambda would be really useful 09:31:27 what would it do? 09:31:43 Jaca does not have closures? 09:31:47 Java* 09:31:50 FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU 09:31:55 it would let you specify the functions at the same time that you told the API what they were 09:32:08 as opposed to having to find a random instance to attach the functions to 09:32:15 you have to put them somewhere, and there's no really good place 09:32:59 Java has lexical closures via anonymous classes 09:33:01 sorta. 09:33:07 yes 09:33:13 that's a really complex workaround, though 09:33:17 for what /should/ be a simple operation 09:33:23 right. the canonical workaround 09:33:32 the proposed closures take inspiration from that form, though 09:33:52 ah, glad to hear that they're planning to add them 09:34:02 let's hope they don't mess them up as badly as they messed up templates 09:34:09 well. I'm not sure they'll be added. But there definitely is a proposal, and Gosling's looked at it 09:34:31 the template issue is mostly because they wanted backwards bytecode compatibility 09:34:54 ah, ok 09:35:10 couldn't they have automatically added casts everywhere the object was used, in the bytecode? 09:36:10 casts? Well, you could have heterogenous collections in the older version 09:36:30 it'd have to make all casts be to Object. 09:36:34 yes, but you had to cast them in order to get them to work 09:36:37 which is rather pointless. 09:36:51 I mean, type bleaching does nothing if you have a collection of Object anyway 09:37:06 so suppose you have a new collection of Dog, or something 09:37:21 you can cause the bytecode to, instead of returning a Dog, return an Object then cast it to Dog 09:37:22 well, you had to cast them to make them work, but that's usage, not internals... 09:37:31 so that the new code uses Dogs, but the old bytecode uses Objects 09:37:37 dunno. it was their solution. 09:37:39 so you have bytecode compatibility + sanity 09:39:27 don't argue with the Java gods, now! 09:39:44 but they were bought out by Oracle! 09:39:47 it's like tron, except it's the JVM 09:40:23 they will find you 09:40:41 and they will send out their video game-like security to make you pay! :o 09:41:08 what, video games use physical security nowadays? 09:41:53 I mean, it's tron. just go with it. >_> 09:43:22 hmm... jump2 is now way down the rankings 09:43:28 OWN 09:43:29 have people been taking steps specifically against it, I wonder? 09:43:44 ais523: leonid_ has been fucking with the RNG 09:43:54 that's all the activity i've noticed on and off 09:43:57 myndzi: that's only one program, though 09:44:01 i keep tweaking my programs back and forth just to mess with him 09:44:01 :> 09:44:09 you guys still going in secret? 09:44:25 once every hour maybe for me, i'm just keeping an eye out 09:44:30 it's all logged by egobot anyway 09:44:38 ya 09:44:59 i didn't do anything against jump that i didn't do when you put it on in the first place 09:45:07 ok 09:45:20 and it's not as if it affects most of your best programs 09:45:28 the rankings seem to change quite a bit with just the 2 or 3 move around 09:45:30 moving* 09:45:55 but it looks like Patashu's contributions and whatever the hell else has gone on in the past few hours seem to have cut into my lead :( 09:46:11 yep, rushpolarity is way up 09:46:27 I wonder if I could get away with using three tripwires in defend9 to beat that sort of thing? 09:46:29 and the other one is sometimes too 09:46:51 what sort of thing? 09:47:00 he made defense9 09:47:02 it doesn't appear to do anything particularly tricky 09:47:04 to try and figure out the opponent's loop 09:47:05 myndzi: changing strategy from step to step 09:47:08 but it doesn't work if it alternates loops 09:47:10 like rushpolarity 09:47:10 which confuses defence9 09:47:11 oh 09:47:15 right 09:47:16 *defend9 09:47:21 I'm rather proud of defend9 09:47:26 and have thought of some improvements to it 09:47:28 yeah, it's pretty impressive 09:47:29 but what if I used three different loops 09:47:31 which I'll have to try sometime 09:47:38 i'm not sure there's anything you can do against a changing attack though 09:47:55 yep, but changing attacks are possibly weaker anyway 09:48:07 as you're using three strategies, one of them has to be suboptimal 09:48:08 Patashu: just curious, did you pick that up from keke2 earlier or just arrive at the same conclusion? 09:48:23 ais523: perhaps, but it may not need all that much effort 09:48:26 pick what up from what? 09:48:29 and many of them will succeed regardless 09:48:41 rushpolarity was my original idea, I didn't look at any other programs that alternated 09:48:44 if that's what you mean 09:48:46 no, i guess not 09:48:54 it's not the same thing when i look at it 09:48:58 you still have loops 09:49:16 i was trying to (originally) do some sort of attack that kept changing timing 09:49:21 turned out most if it didn't matter 09:49:42 but the swap from + to - throws off his timing stuff i bet 09:50:20 ais523: you could potentially, at least to detect specifically Patashu's reversal thing, use numbers that count the same both ways .. if you know how to read them 09:51:05 anyway, it's well past my bedtime 09:51:31 i hope i still have anything on the hill tomorrow when i wake up ;P 09:51:34 I specifically didn't use numbers that count the same both ways 09:51:42 i know you didn't 09:51:44 otherwise, how would I know which polarity to counteract with? 09:51:57 more interesting would be counteractions which worked the same both ways 09:52:07 so how defense works is 09:52:08 defend6 had one of them for two-cycle loops 09:52:11 i was probably just confusing myself 09:52:14 you keep using + or - to push them over every 0 on your flag 09:52:20 I wonder if that would be possible for other quantities 09:52:21 and use the intermittent time to run forward and attack each spot in turn 09:52:25 Patashu: not quite 09:52:30 until every possible flag has been taken down 09:52:35 I use a long string of + or - to prevent the value ever going near 0 09:52:43 I can change faster than the opponent can 09:52:44 you also have to win 09:52:50 as I'm doing (+)*128, they're in a loop 09:52:53 oh, because it's all unrolled 09:52:55 yea 09:52:56 unless the opponent isn't looping 09:52:57 well, (+)*96 09:53:04 they don't know they're on your flag, but you do 09:53:09 myndzi: defend9 doesn't deal with nonlooping opponents 09:53:12 Patashu: that's it 09:53:17 i'm gonna run at you with a -.-..-... loop 09:53:17 ;) 09:53:25 (wait, that wouldn't work... :P) 09:53:36 and I use the inbetween time to run over to all possible flags and sink them a bit at a time 09:53:38 myndzi: correct 09:53:43 better: (-.)*256>(-..)*256 09:53:46 * myndzi grins 09:54:06 myndzi: then I'll just beat you with speedy1 09:54:25 (-) (--.)(---.) 09:54:27 * myndzi shrugs 09:54:40 i'm just thinking it'd be more fun to tweak your timing than do something else 09:54:55 defend9 is definitely beatable, ofc 09:55:05 I'm just wondering if taking steps just to beat it would hold you back against other programs 09:55:08 my favorite thing about defend6 was that it suicided 09:55:21 probably 09:55:37 unless defend9 starts beating everything it won't gain you that many points to beat it 09:56:06 and if it's beating everything, it may become worth it (and also more feasible) 09:56:08 defend6 does, indeed, suicide 09:56:11 under certain circumstances 09:56:18 like, if you don't touch the flag 09:56:19 :) 09:56:22 defend9 can too, but it's a lot harder to persuade it to 09:56:33 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.(-.)*512>(+)*128.(++.)*512)*15 09:56:37 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 31.9 09:56:38 however, hitting a decoy and two tripwires, but not the flag, would take quite some doing 09:56:39 not sure what to do with this one 09:56:39 atm 09:56:50 not really 09:56:56 just a slow moving program 09:57:00 that's how i did it the first time 09:57:04 myndzi: trouble is, that wouldn't beat anything else 09:57:16 creep did pretty well 09:57:21 oh wait 09:57:23 even after i slowed it down to handle the inverse 09:57:32 it didn't get top scores but it stuck around a while 09:57:38 i consider that one mark of usefulness at least 09:57:41 that beats defend 6,7,9, jump2, speed1 and ugh 09:57:41 lol 09:57:49 uuuugh 09:57:59 ugh is just another pointless wtfscript 09:58:06 Patashu: htf does that beat speedy1? 09:58:08 wtfscript? 09:58:09 he advances to the right 30 times then goes back to the left(??) 09:58:16 oops, sorry... 09:58:18 and loops this process 09:58:19 misread, it doesn't beat speedy1 09:58:31 it beats waiter, defend6-7-9, jump2 and ugh 09:58:35 God I hate LaTeX so much 09:58:39 The tutorial sounds so smug 09:58:48 I just want to punch my screen. 09:58:48 oh scuse me 09:58:50 he just wrote it wrong 09:58:51 jump2 seems likely to fall off soon 09:58:57 it goes to the 30th position then tries to go back to the start 09:59:00 but then it only goes right 15 09:59:12 of course, it will only ever hit the 'go back to the left' stage 1/20th of the time 09:59:15 going to the 30th position is dubious anyway 09:59:21 if you get there, why not just sink the flag? 09:59:27 pretty much 09:59:29 leonid has no idea what the fuck is going on that's why 09:59:29 after all, you know it's there 09:59:30 :D 09:59:37 he's just putting random shit in until he gets good random numbers that give him a good score 10:00:05 well, I confess that I was seedtampering with defend9 to stop it getting random very short tapes 10:00:13 but only against programs that lose to it on nearly every tape length 10:00:23 but beat it on exceptionally short ones 10:00:30 heh, i did that unknowingly earlier too 10:00:40 most variants would win and all of a sudden a tie.. wat? 10:00:45 gotta fix that, try to change the timing a little 10:00:49 haha 10:00:50 didn't know it wasn't timing that was doing it 10:01:09 now i was just doing it to drop leonid_ back down the hill :P 10:01:37 you know though 10:01:44 there's gotta be a better solution 10:01:48 i just don't know what 10:01:53 I could probably improve defend9 by putting some counterdefence in 10:02:01 myndzi: ehird's try-all-lengths interp might be it 10:02:09 i was thinking that may not be so hot 10:02:15 i was about to comment on it but i couldn't phrase it well 10:02:47 it's desirable in that it takes random chance out of the game and makes set-length attackers useless 10:03:15 eh, nevermind 10:03:17 but? 10:03:21 i worked out what i was thinking about and it's probably not a big deal 10:03:22 :) 10:03:25 ah 10:03:26 it also makes overaiming more interesting 10:03:35 it's a strategy discovered in the original BF Joust 10:03:42 where you assume that the tape length is, say, at least 15 10:03:46 yeah 10:03:50 i did that early on 10:03:56 "playing the odds" was on for a while, did pretty decent 10:03:56 it gives you an instant loss in 1/4 of games, but an advantage in the other 3/4 10:04:25 it'd do better with rng manipulation ;) 10:04:39 the other thing about this hill is 10:04:45 beating useless warriors doesn't gain you anything 10:04:58 if you beat someone with 0 points, you get none 10:05:02 agreed 10:05:08 a counter for a specific warrrior type will only last if that warrior type is itself dominating 10:05:26 i think you ought to get a little more credit than that, meh 10:05:33 that leads back to fixed scores, which i think i'd prefer 10:05:43 but at least gregor dropped the points received from ties earlier 10:05:49 that seems to have worked out 10:11:28 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing (>[)*15(+[[-]>+]+[[-]>+]])*15+[[-]>+]+[[-]>+] 10:11:32 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 11.7 10:12:04 beats juggernaut and shade 10:12:09 yep 10:12:26 heh, it's probably going too /fast/ 10:12:30 and I messed up the code anyway 10:12:47 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing (>[)*15 [[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]] 10:12:50 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 18.9 10:12:52 whoops 10:12:55 I pressed return by mistake 10:13:05 and that should be a syntax error, I don't know why it scored points 10:13:16 beats jump2 ugh shade 10:15:24 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >>>>>[>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[[>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]][[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+] 10:15:27 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 13.2 10:15:30 lol 10:15:32 O_O 10:15:57 I don't get why that's drawing against the defenders 10:16:00 it should suicide against them 10:16:05 beats jump2 and shade. ties defends 679 and jump2 10:16:08 oh, duh 10:16:14 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >>>>>[>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[[>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]+[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+] 10:16:17 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 13.2 10:16:24 no change 10:16:28 ye[ 10:16:32 I wonder what I've messed up this time? 10:16:35 *yep 10:17:17 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >>>>>[>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[[>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]+[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]] 10:17:21 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 21.3 10:17:27 missing square bracket at the end 10:17:46 !bfjoust brackettest [ 10:17:48 Beats ugh, keke2, shade 10:17:49 Score for ais523_brackettest: 9.7 10:18:07 That one beats jump2 :-P 10:18:20 yep, jump2 suicides against an opponent that doesn't set up decoys 10:18:36 haha 10:18:39 interesting 10:18:48 Ah, it jumps over the first X nonzero cells 10:19:01 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >.>.>.>.>.[>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[[>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]+[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]] 10:19:04 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 25.7 10:19:23 wow, it's now almost on the bottom of the leaderboard 10:19:35 Beats jump2, ugh, 3pass, shade 10:19:37 beats jump2, ugh, pass3, shade 10:19:40 god everything beats shade :P 10:20:47 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >.>.>.>.>.[(>)*5[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*6[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*7[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*8[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*9[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[[(>)*10[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*11[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*12[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*13[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>.[(>)*14[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]+[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]] 10:20:50 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 10.8 10:20:59 Beats shade 10:21:00 :-P 10:21:03 heh, I wonder why it dropped so much? 10:21:15 shade seems to only beat important ones :P 10:21:16 Ties against the defends and jump2 10:21:40 !bfjoust another_kind_of_timing >+++>--->+++>--->+++[(>)*5[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*6[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*7[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*8[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*9[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[[(>)*10[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*11[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*12[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*13[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]>[(>)*14[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]]+[[+[-]>+]+[[-]>+]] 10:21:43 Score for ais523_another_kind_of_timing: 5.2 10:21:52 Now it doesn't even beat shade 10:21:52 I just don't get why it's tying against the defends 10:22:02 Ties the defends and waiter 10:22:07 it should be losing 10:22:12 anyway, I'll abandon that line of reasoning 10:22:57 * ais523 vaguely wonders if the average program is slow enough that I could set up a whole second dummy flag in defend9, so I wouldn't have to risk the real one 10:23:18 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 10:23:33 -!- amca has joined. 10:24:09 shade beating slowrush is probably why it's doing so well 10:24:10 hi amca 10:26:43 -!- ais523 has quit ("mibbit.com: going to get breakfast"). 10:30:20 Yeah, slowrush is a good one to beat. 10:30:26 Aaaaand you're gone :P 10:30:38 ais523: Hi 10:30:47 oops 10:36:25 !bfjoust try [[+-]+] 10:36:29 Score for jix__try: 24.1 10:36:35 -!- jix_ has changed nick to jix. 10:37:08 that wouldn't work very well 10:37:08 !bfjoust try [[(+-)*5]+] 10:37:11 Score for jix_try: 17.6 10:37:15 once it realizes it's 0 ( on a ]) it's already too late 10:37:21 ah 10:37:24 right 10:37:53 just read about bfjoust... 10:38:26 it goes like this: ]s take value, both programs execute a command 10:38:41 if either flag is at 0 and was 0 for the end of the previous round as well declare a winner 10:38:58 i know 10:39:02 k 10:39:39 so basically i can never test whether my flag is zero.... 10:40:58 no 10:41:00 but 10:41:04 you can test whether ANY other cell is zero :) 10:42:47 !bfjoust try [->[-]+] 10:42:51 Score for jix_try: 26.5 10:43:17 oh, jix 10:43:21 !bfjoust try [>[-]+] 10:43:22 long time no see 10:43:24 Score for jix_try: 19.6 10:44:32 indeed 10:45:34 in a loop is a cycle taken for [ and ] of the loop during iterations? 10:45:47 for ] yes 10:45:49 ah no isn't 10:45:50 for [ I think so 10:45:56 the spec sais isn't 10:46:06 ] jump to just after the matching [ 10:46:17 hang on a sec 10:46:28 Yes, but the ] itself takes one cycle 10:46:41 Deewiant: but that wasn't what i intended to ask ^^ 10:46:51 Just checking :-) 10:47:04 [-] is executed like -]-]-]-]... 10:47:09 because ] is its own turn 10:47:10 So if you have [-] then the execution is not [-][-][-], it's [-]-]-] 10:47:18 yeah 10:48:40 !bfjoust try < 10:48:43 Score for jix_try: 0.0 10:48:48 haha 10:48:55 if you die it's a win for your opponent 10:48:59 but if you nop forever it's not 10:49:04 watch out for that distinction 10:49:18 !bfjoust thisbeatssuiciding . 10:49:22 Score for Patashu_thisbeatssuiciding: 13.2 10:49:29 this also beats programs that expect to see decoys or w/e 10:49:50 so either jump2 or shade 10:50:12 it's not a big deal though because scoring is weighed; if you beat a program that has a high score YOU get a higher score 10:50:26 so they don't lose much for not beating my terrible program that loses almost every fight 10:52:25 !bfjoust try [>(+)*10[-](-)*20] 10:52:28 Score for jix_try: 34.7 10:53:19 that beats maglev, juggernaut, lolscounter, jump2, spyglass, ugh and slowrush 10:53:41 you know where to find the other programs to look at them? 10:53:47 nope 10:53:54 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ 10:54:39 defend9 and shade were algorithmically generated, hence the size 10:55:01 genetic algorithm? 10:55:05 defend6 and defend7 have been around for -ages- 10:55:23 no. he made an algorithm that codes higher level computations in just brainfuck 10:55:31 ah 10:55:36 which is a lot faster than handwriting it as you can imagine 10:55:41 because that would be worth a try too 10:55:44 no one's used genetic algorithms for bfjoust yet 10:55:53 well then it's time for that i guess ^^ 10:56:28 nah i should continue my linker instead of doing esoteric stuff right now... 10:56:41 ... but otoh this is a really nice challenge 10:57:12 haha 10:57:19 actually 10:57:22 you should work on your linker now 10:57:33 because there's a flaw in the way it compares programs atm 10:57:43 huh? 10:57:44 it only runs one match, which uses a tape length seeded by the concatenation of the two algorithms 10:58:01 this is flawed 10:58:03 so it's vulnerable to insignificant changes 10:58:03 indeed 10:58:04 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:58:13 As a bonus it uses the unexpanded source 10:58:14 it's going to get fixed in one or two days when it runs all possible combinations 10:58:18 then you can give it a go 10:58:22 So it sees -- and (-)*2 as different 10:58:35 and - (-)*1 10:58:36 only for the purposes of hashing the original tape length for each match yeah 10:58:40 it's not too bad right now 10:58:45 Yes, and -this is a comment- etc. 10:58:48 but for genetic algorithms it would produce flawed results 10:59:23 Patashu: not if i adjust the interpreter i use for ranking to that 11:00:16 oh yeah 11:00:20 and just run it on your own for a while? 11:00:51 well for genetic algorithms i'd have to evaluate a few thousand programs / sec 11:01:38 21 tape lengths: maybe randomly evaluate one length out of the first five, one out of the next six, one out of the next five, one out of the next five 11:01:47 gives a reasonable approximation 11:02:00 i don't thin so.. 11:02:11 because i think for some programs even/odd length is more important 11:02:18 oh that's true 11:02:19 so i could just evaluate only one by random 11:02:24 force two even force two odd? 11:02:38 Patashu: for some the length mod 3 might be important ;) 11:02:58 i'd just rank them by one.... because in the next iteration they will be ranked by a different length 11:03:12 and only the good ones will survive for a long time 11:03:18 alright 11:03:27 also 11:03:40 randomly flipping or not flipping the second program's polarity 11:03:43 (all + to -, all - to +) 11:03:44 might be good 11:03:57 to prevent trivial counters that are just the original program but using the polarity it handles worse 11:04:07 though I don't know how easy a genetic algorithm will derive those 11:04:22 if it can't do something like that in one step it's probably fine 11:04:38 yeah that's always the most tricky part ... 11:04:44 getting the mutations / crossovers right for the problem 11:05:28 you might want to seed it with, say, programs currently on the hill? 11:05:34 because the goal in bfjoust is reasonably specific 11:05:49 Patashu: i wouldn't seed it with that 11:05:57 but would rank all programs against them 11:06:03 aah 11:06:10 I see 11:06:25 so they get ranked against the #estoric hill and my own GA hill 11:06:33 interesting 11:07:21 what do you seed it with then? 11:07:56 well when i do GAs i also add random genomes to the population with each step 11:08:02 so i'd have to create an algorithm to do random programs anyway 11:08:36 does the hill use the perl implementation? 11:08:43 forget 11:09:31 ehird was working on an interpreter. meant to be fast as nails 11:09:36 well nails aren't very fast 11:10:11 I assume every addition of a [ will also force a ] to be inserted? 11:10:30 i think i'll keep loops in a tree structure 11:10:35 hmm 11:10:35 yeah 11:10:37 so it'll never move a ] 11:10:47 because that will most probably result in a totally different program 11:10:54 that would 11:10:59 while moving a [...] might just be a slight modification 11:11:52 well will code a bit on the linker now and come back to this later 11:19:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!"). 11:21:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:34:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:37:08 !bfjoust try2 [>[>[-]<-]+] 11:37:12 Score for jix_try2: 12.3 11:40:23 !bfjoust try2 [>[-]-[-]-] 11:40:27 Score for jix_try2: 24.1 11:41:33 !bfjoust try2 [>[---]-[-----](-)*100] 11:41:36 Score for jix_try2: 25.4 11:41:43 !bfjoust try2 [>[---]-[-----](-)*10] 11:41:47 Score for jix_try2: 30.4 11:45:41 jump's been pushed off, I see 11:45:52 and defend6 and defend7 are gradually moving down the leaderboard 11:46:52 !bfjoust idle ([]+)*1000 11:46:56 Score for jix_idle: 11.4 11:47:06 that wouldn't work very well 11:47:07 because 11:47:18 -- 11:47:21 you take the cell value from the start of the round 11:47:23 -!- Corun has joined. 11:47:24 and turns are synchronous 11:47:28 so if a turn ends on 0 11:47:35 ] sees a 0 and says 'ah, time for the next instruction' 11:47:41 but before it can execute that instruction the game is over 11:47:50 [] on your flag is pointless 11:47:54 [] on a cell in front of it however... :) 11:47:58 tripwire 11:48:02 yeah i've seen that 11:48:13 try2 assumes there is a [] on the cell next to it 11:48:48 and kills defend* and waiter 11:49:14 but for a lot of others it probably just moves past the end 11:50:05 * leonid_ wakes up 11:50:22 !bfjoust idiot (-)*384000 11:50:26 Score for jix_idiot: 24.2 11:50:27 uh oh 11:50:33 btw 11:50:38 max cycle count is current 100k 11:50:41 not 384k 11:50:49 oh 11:51:15 haha that one wins only against my other 2... and against shade... 11:51:26 so i just manged to lower the score of my other 2 programs 11:51:28 bfjoust idiot (-)*99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 11:51:37 don't worry didn't run it 11:51:48 leonid_: but it can only run for 100000 cycles anyway 11:51:51 so all those 9s are redundant 11:51:55 yeah 11:54:00 !bfjoust waitntry >(-)*128>(+)*128>(-)*128>(+)*128[][>(+)*10[-](-)*20] 11:54:03 Score for jix_waitntry: 19.1 11:55:43 !bfjoust waitntry >>(-)*32>>>(+)*32>>+[]+[>(+)*10[-](-)*20] 11:55:47 Score for jix_waitntry: 17.1 11:57:56 !bfjoust waitntry >(-)*32>(+)*32>(-)*32>(+)*32[]++[>(+)*10[-](-)*20] 11:58:00 Score for jix_waitntry: 24.3 11:58:15 !bfjoust waitntry >(-)*16>(+)*16>(-)*16>(+)*16[]++[>(+)*10[-](-)*20] 11:58:19 Score for jix_waitntry: 19.6 11:59:50 !bfjoust idiot2 (-)*128(+-)*100000 11:59:54 Score for jix_idiot2: 8.5 12:02:22 !bfjoust keep >>(+[[]+])*30 12:02:26 Score for jix_keep: 14.5 12:03:05 oh snap 12:03:21 you guys were talking badthing about me 12:03:22 :( 12:03:26 !bfjoust keep >>(+[])*300 12:03:27 bad things* 12:03:30 Score for jix_keep: 5.2 12:03:50 !bfjoust keep >>(+[])*100000 12:03:51 :( :( :( 12:03:54 Score for jix_keep: 15.0 12:04:36 jix 12:04:37 oh 12:04:39 by the time you exit the [] loop 12:04:40 i'm still at rank 6 12:04:41 haha 12:04:42 they'll have skipped past 12:04:50 ugh 12:04:53 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*7(>[-[+]])*15(<)*29)*37 12:04:54 Patashu: yeah i know 12:04:56 Score for leonid__ugh: 56.2 12:04:59 dam people heate me 12:05:02 hate* 12:05:06 leonid_: huh? 12:05:10 nothing 12:05:44 !bfjoust keep >>>>>>>>(+[]<<)*100000 12:05:45 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*2(>[-[+]])*6(<)*9)*37 12:05:49 Score for jix_keep: 5.1 12:05:49 Score for leonid__ugh: 21.2 12:06:01 that's the reason why i keep putting random shit 12:06:26 why would you make code that goes backwards more than it goes forwards? 12:06:40 read the code again 12:06:41 Patashu: i'm just experimenting 12:06:46 oh nvm 12:06:50 this is trivial optimization though 12:06:52 ;) 12:07:00 and would give a more accurate depiction of how your code's doing 12:07:26 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*32>(-)*32)*3(>[-[+]])*4(<)*9)*20 12:07:30 Score for leonid__ugh: 34.8 12:07:31 x( 12:08:03 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*32>(-)*32)*2>>(>[-[+]])*4(<)*9)*20 12:08:07 Score for leonid__ugh: 26.7 12:08:17 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*32>(-)*32)*4>>(>[-[+]])*2(<)*9)*20 12:08:19 Score for leonid__ugh: 23.1 12:08:27 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*32>(-)*32)*4>>(>[-[+]])*5(<)*12)*20 12:08:30 Score for leonid__ugh: 29.8 12:08:37 durrrrr i'm dumbbbb 12:08:53 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4>>(>[-[+]])*5(<)*12)*20 12:08:56 Score for leonid__ugh: 54.7 12:09:06 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4>>(>[-[+]])*5(<)*12)*18 12:09:10 Score for leonid__ugh: 55.0 12:09:12 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4>>(>[-[+]])*5(<)*12)*17 12:09:16 Score for leonid__ugh: 48.4 12:09:20 xp 12:09:45 !bfjoust fib >>++++++++++>+>+[[+++++[>++++++++<-]>.<++++++[>--------<-]+<<<]>>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<<+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<<<-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<<<] 12:09:48 Score for jix_fib: 8.6 12:09:58 that's very complex looking 12:10:01 does it do what you think it does? 12:10:11 i just took http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/fib.b 12:10:12 ^^ 12:10:15 oh lol 12:10:52 !bfjoust rot13 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/rot13.b 12:10:55 Score for Deewiant_rot13: 0.0 12:11:15 amazingly, brainfuck programs don't make good bfjoust programs 12:11:19 !bfjoust squares http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/squares.b 12:11:22 Score for Deewiant_squares: 0.0 12:11:22 who knew that computing fibbonaci numbers was so useless? 12:11:36 !bfjoust random http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/random.b 12:11:39 Score for Deewiant_random: 0.0 12:11:47 !bfjoust fib http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/fib.b 12:11:49 you have to add a > at the beginning 12:11:50 Score for Deewiant_fib: 0.0 12:11:53 Thought so 12:11:53 or they'll all sucide 12:12:06 most BF programs don't start [-], though 12:12:08 and none start < 12:12:15 !bfjoust rot13 >[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>++++++++++++++<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>>+++++[<----->-]<<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[> 12:12:18 Score for Deewiant_rot13: 10.7 12:12:21 +<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>++++++++++++++<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>++++++++++++++<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>>+++++[<----->-]<<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>++++++++++++++<-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]>.[-]<,] 12:12:23 lol 12:12:28 Darn 12:12:30 Too long 12:12:33 :-D 12:12:33 !bfjoust err [ 12:12:35 Half of rot13 beats fibonacci 12:12:37 Score for jix_err: 6.4 12:12:41 !bfjoust err ] 12:12:45 Score for jix_err: 10.7 12:12:49 whoa 12:13:03 !bfjoust err ]+] 12:13:06 Score for jix_err: 16.4 12:13:08 my dragon beats that 12:13:32 !bfjoust random >>>++[<++++++++[<[<++>-]>>[>>]+>>+[-[->>+<<<[<[<<]<+>]>[>[>>]]]<[>>[-]]>[>[-<<]>[<+<]]+<<]<[>+<-]>>-]<.[-]>>] 12:13:35 Score for Deewiant_random: 0.0 12:13:46 I'm not sure what exactly [ without ] does 12:14:57 morning 12:15:03 hmm i should write a debugger for this at some time 12:15:03 or noon rather 12:15:23 evening here 12:15:24 ;p 12:15:57 !bfjoust factorial >(+)*10>>>+>+[>>>+[-[<<<<<[+<<<<<]>>[[-]>[<<+>+>-]<[>+<-]<([>+<-)*9[>[-]>>>>+>+<<<<<<-[>+<-(])*11>[<+>-]+>>>>>]<<<<<[<<<<<](>)*7[>>>>>]++[-<<<<<]>>>>>>-]+>>>>>]<[>++<-]<<<<[<[>+<-]<<<<]>>[->[-]++++++[<(+)*8>-]>>>>]<<<<<[<[>+>+<<-]>.<<<<<]>.>>>>] 12:16:00 Score for Deewiant_factorial: 8.8 12:16:03 whoa 12:16:11 slightly afternoon AnMaster 12:16:16 !bfjoust factorial >(+)*10>>>+>+[>>>+[-[<<<<<[+<<<<<]>>[[-]>[<<+>+>-]<[>+<-]<([>+<-)*9[>[-]>>>>+>+<<<<<<-[>+<-(])*11>[<+>-]+>>>>>]<<<<<[<<<<<](>)*7[>>>>>]++[-<<<<<]>>>>>>-]+>>>>>]<[>++<-]<<<<[<[>+<-]<<<<]>>[->[-]++++++[<(+)*8>-]>>>>]<<<<<[<[>+>+<<-]>.<<<<<]>.>>>>] 12:16:18 Score for Deewiant_factorial: 4.2 12:16:35 yeah 12:16:35 Beats mirage, loses against everything else :-P 12:18:20 psewelklihiandnabarfrux chewelisksiamtmaybobyargruz 12:18:37 !rot13 psewelklihiandnabarfrux chewelisksiamtmaybobyargruz 12:18:38 cfrjryxyvuvnaqanonesehk purjryvfxfvnzgznlobolnetehm 12:18:41 hmm nope 12:19:26 beat my random shit 12:19:32 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4>>(>[-[+]])*5(<)*12)*23 12:19:35 Score for leonid__ugh: 65.4 12:20:33 rushpolarity :twisted::twisted::twis ted: 12:20:44 :( 12:21:06 !bfjoust collatz >[(-)*10[>>>[>>>>]+[[-]+<[->>>>++>>>>+[>>>>]++[->+<<<<<]]<<<](+)*6[>(-)*6<-]>--[>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]>-],<]>]>>>++>+>>[<<[>>>>[-](+)*9<[>-<-](+)*9>[-[<->-]+[<<<<]]<[>+<-]>]>[>[>>>>]+[[-]<[+[->>>>]>+<]>[<+>[<<<<]]+<<<<]>>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]]>[[>+>>[<<<<+>>>>-]>]<<<<[-]>[-<<<<]](>)*7]>>+[[-](+)*6>>>>]<<<<[[<(+)*8>-]<.([-]<)*3] 12:21:10 Score for Deewiant_collatz: 13.1 12:21:44 !bfjoust collatz >[(-)*10[>>>[>>>>]+[[-]+<[->>>>++>>>>+[>>>>]++[->+<<<<<]]<<<](+)*6[>(-)*6<-]>--[>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]>-],<]>]>>>++>+>>[<<[>>>>[-](+)*9<[>-<-](+)*9>[-[<->-]+[<<<<]]<[>+<-]>]>[>[>>>>]+[[-]<[+[->>>>]>+<]>[<+>[<<<<]]+<<<<]>>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]]>[[>+>>[<<<<+>>>>-]>]<<<<[-]>[-<<<<]](>)*7]>>+[[-](+)*6>>>>]<<<<[[<(+)*8>-]<.([-]<)*3] 12:21:48 Score for Deewiant_collatz: 13.2 12:22:10 Bunch of ties from that one 12:22:24 haha 12:22:33 imagine making one that looks like this but still gets lots of wins 12:22:40 obfuscated bfjoust :) 12:22:48 D: 12:22:59 it may appear to be generating prime numbers innocently, but behind the scenes it thrashes all 19 other programs on the hill 12:23:00 lol 12:24:58 !bfjoust dbfi >>>+[[-]>>[-]++>+>(+)*7[<++++>>++<-]++>>+>+>+++++[>++>(+)*6<<-]+>>++[[>[->>]<[>>]<<-]<[<]<+>>[>]>[<+>-[[<+>-]>]<[[[-]<]++<-[<(+)*9>[<->-]>>]>>]]<<]<]<[[<]>[[>]>>[>>]+[<<]<[<]<+>>-]>[>]+[->>]<<<<[[<<]<[<]+<<[+>+<<-[>-->+<<-[>+<[>>+<<-]]]>[<+>-]<]++>>-->[>]>>[>>]]<<[>>+<[[<]<]>[[<<]<[<]+[-<+>>-[<<+>++>-[<->[<<+>>-]]]<[>+<-]>]>[>]>]>[>>]>>]<<[>>+>>+>>]<<[-(>)*8]<<[>.(>)*7]<<[>->>>>>]<<[>.>>>]<<[>+>]<<[+<<]<] 12:25:02 Score for Deewiant_dbfi: 7.9 12:25:25 Brainfuck interpreter beats keke2 12:25:37 ? 12:25:40 oh right 12:25:47 whoa 12:26:48 huh something is wrong with the report? 12:26:55 is it just tabs? 12:27:07 sometimes it's screwed by tabs if a program scores only single digits 12:27:54 !bfjoust nothing . 12:27:57 but it should report fine otherwise 12:27:57 Score for jix_nothing: 10.3 12:28:06 . beats programs that rely apon an assumption 12:28:11 i.e. my enemy will setup decoys 12:28:30 here goes a program that runs off the end and doesn't care 12:28:31 when is the report updated and what does it include? 12:28:31 !bfjoust ugh ((>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4(>[-[+]])*7(<)*12)*59 12:28:35 Score for leonid__ugh: 66.6 12:28:40 it's reported after every new submission 12:28:51 does it include the last submission always? 12:28:54 yes 12:28:55 always 12:29:06 leonid_: Thanks for raising maglev's score ^_^ 12:29:12 because i don't see them often 12:29:19 !bfjoust defend9 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1439379 12:29:20 dam 12:29:23 uh oh 12:29:33 why the uh oh? 12:29:42 defend9 teh best program!! 12:29:43 mmmmm 12:29:45 also, if defend9 takes a long time to run, that's normally because it's winning 12:29:48 the 9 stands for over nine thousand 12:29:53 so I have a good feeling about this 12:30:22 it's almost the same program, I just fixed a couple of bugs and optimised the value of an important constant 12:31:34 and wow, it /is/ taking a long time 12:31:38 Score for ais523_defend9: 73.6 12:31:47 yay, not bad at all 12:31:56 top of the leaderboard 12:31:58 Yay, you raised maglev's score too 12:32:22 i redesigned ugh to raise all the other scores 12:32:33 maglev beats everybody above it except shade and rushpolarity 12:32:34 !bfjoust ugh < 12:32:43 Score for leonid__ugh: 0.0 12:32:47 nice 12:32:49 leonid_: Noo, now you reduced my score :-P 12:33:31 I wonder if keke2 has been redesigned recently 12:33:34 because I beat it locally 12:33:40 but I lost to it in EgoBot 12:33:40 !bfjoust try2 < 12:33:50 Or is it just the RNG 12:33:50 Score for jix_try2: 0.1 12:33:58 haha 12:34:01 beats mine 12:34:01 heh, the two suicide programs tie with each other 12:34:08 they're both on 0.1 now 12:34:17 Deewiant: the random seed is based on a hash of both programs 12:34:25 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! [>[-[+]]-] 12:34:25 FIX IT NOW 12:34:25 so any particular matchup should be deterministic 12:34:28 AARGHRGARG 12:34:35 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 34.2 12:34:37 ais523: Oh, so you're using the same impl 12:34:39 not bad 12:34:57 Deewiant: almost the same 12:35:00 ais523: I assumed that your local interpreter would do things differently 12:35:01 I hacked it to produce debug output 12:35:15 so I can see how any particular pair of programs functions 12:35:35 !bfjoust bluguerrilla_glasses [--]_[--] 12:35:38 Patashu: incidentally, it beats rushpolarity now too 12:35:45 Score for leonid__bluguerrilla_glasses: 5.5 12:35:48 ;p 12:35:55 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]-] 12:36:05 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 40.0 12:36:10 cool 12:36:13 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]--] 12:36:23 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 40.5 12:36:26 due to an architectural improvement; I made it polarity-independent 12:36:28 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]---] 12:36:38 it now has two /different/ ways of gluing the opponent in place 12:36:38 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 47.7 12:36:46 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]](-)*4] 12:36:56 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 32.4 12:37:02 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! ++[>[-[+]]---] 12:37:10 the value should be coprime to 256 12:37:12 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 40.5 12:37:17 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]--] 12:37:21 oh wait you're moving there 12:37:27 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 40.5 12:37:33 oh 12:37:34 !bfjoust the_greatest_program_ever!!! +[>[-[+]]---] 12:37:36 there leaving it on that 12:37:47 Score for Patashu_the_greatest_program_ever___: 47.7 12:38:06 wow, quickbeatinthestreetdanceonyo_feetcausethisissoneat has dropped a /lot/ 12:38:08 what happened to it? 12:38:11 !bfjoust idiot ((-)*1000><><><><><><><)*100 12:38:19 let's see what it's losing to... 12:38:21 Score for leonid__idiot: 8.5 12:38:35 !bfjoust idiot (+-><-+)*100000 12:38:44 maglev, waiter, defend 6-7-9, neon glow, 3pass, keke2 12:38:45 Score for leonid__idiot: 22.9 12:38:46 I guess that 12:38:49 it was beating defend9 and now is not 12:39:07 !bfjoust idiot (+->(-)*19<-+)*10000 12:39:09 leonid_: that's like my vff, just worse 12:39:16 Score for leonid__idiot: 10.0 12:39:24 if you're going to write a farmer, you may as well go all out 12:39:34 !bfjoust (>)*11(-.)*512 12:39:35 Use: !bfjoust 12:39:39 !bfjoust whoops (>)*11(-.)*512 12:39:42 farmer? 12:39:44 !bfjoust idiot (+->+-<)*100000 12:39:54 Patashu: a program that scrambles the tape elements near its flag 12:39:58 Score for leonid__idiot: 17.0 12:39:58 Score for jix_whoops: 7.8 12:40:04 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*512 12:40:05 I'm not entirely sure what good that does, except for scrambling the flag itself 12:40:14 Score for jix_whoops: 15.2 12:40:18 !bfjoust whoops (>)*13(-.)*512 12:40:21 Since when are they called farmers? 12:40:24 !bfjoust idiot ((+-)*100>(+-)*100<)*5000 12:40:30 Score for leonid__idiot: 11.2 12:40:30 Score for jix_whoops: 18.4 12:40:32 I think someone submitted a program like that and called it farmer 12:40:34 and I copied the name 12:40:36 !bfjoust whoops (>)*14(-.)*512 12:40:40 !bfjoust idiot <^.^> 12:40:40 I might be wrong, though 12:40:44 I've was up all night 12:40:44 Score for jix_whoops: 8.5 12:40:44 Yes, I did :-P 12:40:49 Score for leonid__idiot: 0.0 12:40:52 !bfjoust whoops (>)*15(-.)*512 12:40:57 I submitted some six or seven farmers 12:40:57 Deewiant: well, you coined a BF Joust term, well done 12:41:02 Score for jix_whoops: 6.2 12:41:03 Yay 12:41:10 now, who came up with "tripwire"/ 12:41:17 !bfjoust whoops (>)*13(-.)*256>(-.)*256 12:41:23 The only one I've seen using that term is you :-P 12:41:27 Score for jix_whoops: 10.6 12:41:35 !bfjoust kirbyhassuicidalfeelingsheneedstoexpress <(-.-)*3> 12:41:39 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*256>(-.)*256 12:41:46 hmm... I just noticed a *-160 in defend9's code 12:41:50 it's in a bit that probably never runs 12:41:50 what lol 12:41:52 Score for Patashu_kirbyhassuicidalfeelingsheneedstoexpress: 0.0 12:41:52 Score for jix_whoops: 17.3 12:42:15 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*129>(-.)*129 12:42:24 I'll need to figure out what it /ought/ to say later 12:42:25 Score for jix_whoops: 24.4 12:42:33 probably *163, based on context 12:42:37 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*129>(-.)*129a 12:42:47 Score for jix_whoops: 8.9 12:42:48 so, maglev and keke2 beat defend9 12:42:48 why? 12:42:50 !bfjoust idiot :3 12:42:51 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*129>(-.)*129b 12:43:02 Patashu: keke2 I don't know 12:43:06 given that my local tests, it doesn't 12:43:08 Score for jix_whoops: 9.6 12:43:08 Score for leonid__idiot: 12.4 12:43:12 jix you are exploiting hash values D: 12:43:18 !bfjoust whoops (>)*12(-.)*129>(-.)*129>(-.)*129>(-.)*129>(-.)*129>(-.)*129>(-.)*129 12:43:25 HASH VALUES 12:43:28 Score for jix_whoops: 29.7 12:43:31 wait what was that text macro I had 12:44:13 !bfjoust idiot [>-[+]] 12:44:16 nvm 12:44:18 ~~~:'(HASH BASED RANDOMNESS:'(~~ 12:44:23 Score for leonid__idiot: 11.0 12:44:24 !bfjoust idiot [>-[+]-] 12:44:37 Score for leonid__idiot: 30.8 12:44:40 we need a faster implementation for the hil 12:44:42 !bfjoust idiot [>-[+-+]-] 12:44:43 *hill 12:44:51 Score for leonid__idiot: 26.0 12:45:15 ah, keke2 starts with ten >s 12:45:27 and in my local game, the random seed happens to give a tape length of 10 12:45:35 so it's kind of hard to test 12:45:46 presumably the RNG is different in the egobot version due to having a different libc 12:45:54 aha 12:45:56 there you go 12:48:00 that wasn't even a deliberate attempt to exploit the hash 12:48:14 it just turned out that way when I finally got the detection code properly working 12:51:43 speedy1's dropping down the leaderboard now 12:51:49 at least it's done its bit to make programs a bit faster 12:53:16 the weaker speedy1 gets 12:53:19 the less it matters if you don't beat it 12:53:30 yep 12:53:33 same for any other program 12:53:43 but the hill will be faster overall as a result 12:53:54 you can tell it's faster, on the basis that speedy1 is doing badly on it 12:53:56 but was doing well before 12:54:56 * ais523 wonders how long defend9 will stay up there 12:55:20 power through obfuscation 12:55:23 i.e. ages :) 12:55:31 it's not meant to be obfuscated 12:55:40 it's brainfuck 12:55:43 i.e. obfuscated by definition 12:55:47 ah 12:57:18 * ais523 thinks it's interesting that even defence programs have to use decoys, to give themselves time to set up the defence 12:59:33 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:06:09 @_@ 13:06:16 ^_^ 13:06:38 \o/ 13:06:38 | 13:06:39 /< 13:07:39 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.(-.)*512>(+)*128.(++.)*512)*15 13:07:50 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 17.5 13:07:52 !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+.-+)*29 13:08:02 Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 30.3 13:08:53 im the juggernaut 13:11:22 L(-_- )7 13:11:24 / \ 13:11:53 IS THAT YOU NAITO HORIZON 13:12:11 what 13:13:05 http://naitohorizon.blogspot.com/ 13:13:51 lol 13:14:17 --( ^w^)- 13:14:27 /| 13:14:30 arrhhg **** 13:15:10 leonid : It reminded me of this : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%86%85%E8%97%A4%E3%83%9B%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BE%E3%83%B3#.E3.83.96.E3.83.BC.E3.83.B32 13:15:19 ⊂二二二( ^ω^)二⊃ 13:15:21 Bu-n 13:15:50          /⌒ヽ 13:15:50   ⊂二二二( ^ω^)二⊃ 13:15:50         |    /       ブーン 13:15:50          ( ヽノ 13:15:50          ノ>ノ  13:15:51      三  レレ 13:15:57 nope 13:22:44 ..... 13:28:16 it fails in monospace 13:28:32 Mona font isn't monospaced 13:28:34 sorry. your home is 2ch, cute creature 13:28:34 So yeah 13:29:04 Well, bu-n works on IRC, but only when using one line. 13:29:16 ⊂二二二( ^ω^)二⊃ SPREAD YOUR ARMS AND BU-N 13:30:01 ( ゚ -゚) you don't say 13:30:14 Gracenotes. 13:30:20 Do you like mittens. 13:30:20 ∂_∂ 13:30:33 π_π 13:30:45 ≈_≈ 13:30:56 º∑º 13:31:03 yes, I do like kittens so much 13:31:37 (づの‿の)づ 13:31:46 ugh 13:31:52 too lazy to bring up japanese keyboard 13:32:05 I just happen to keep my favorites :3 13:32:14 *mittens 13:32:26 ·‚· 13:32:27 http://tanasinn.info/wiki/%28_%EF%BE%9F_%E3%83%AE%EF%BE%9F%29 13:32:29 ·_· 13:32:43 ≥A≤ 13:33:05 ◊_◊ 13:33:07 ( ・ิω・ิ) 13:33:11 kittens 13:33:13 Why hello there 13:34:03 Mittens for kittens 13:34:23 I read a story about that when I was younger 13:34:39 the mittens who lost their kittens. Or actually it was the other way around. 13:35:00 "This page is small. You can help by making it huge. " 13:35:02 heh 13:35:10 Gracenotes: I thought they got them dirty, rather than losing them 13:35:28 ais523: I think we may have read different stories? 13:35:41 possibly 13:35:49 it's a British nursery rhyme 13:35:53 and not a particularly interesting one 13:35:56 I can't remember it any more 13:36:09 http://www.rhymes.org.uk/three_little_kittens.htm 13:36:12 oh, yes, that one 13:36:33 "Meeow, meeow, meeow, now we shall have no pie." 13:36:35 Awwww 13:36:38 Poor kittens 13:36:44 ais523: actually, it may be the same one :) 13:36:50 yes, I think so 13:37:09 ah, they lost them 13:37:15 and then got them dirty eating the pie 13:37:17 so we were both right 13:37:18 Part Une and Part Deux 13:37:32 the big question here is: why would a cat wear gloves to eat pie anyway/ 13:38:21 it would be easier to wash their gloves than to wash their paws 13:38:58 ............... ?_? 13:45:16 (づの‿の)づ 13:45:25 (>'-')> 13:47:11      | \ 13:47:11      |Д`) ... 13:47:11      |⊂ 13:47:11      | 13:47:31 (>^.^)> 13:47:32 <(^.^<) 13:47:48 oh man, reminds me of when I had the kirby rolling game on my gameboy color 13:47:54 where you tilted the gameboy 13:47:59 good old days 13:48:35 >_> 13:51:01     ∧ ∧___   13:51:01    /(*゚ー゚) /\ 13:51:01  /| ̄∪∪ ̄|\/ 13:51:01    |        |/ 13:51:01      ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 13:55:12 they see me boxin 13:55:13 they hatin 13:56:57 She's more of the kind to wish on a dream and shit like that 13:58:31 http://tanasinn.info/images/4/42/PayDaddyCool.png 13:58:38 That picture always cracks me up. 13:59:57 lmfao 14:00:40 A nutella cake 14:00:41 lereah_: I don't exactly get the foodstuffs. 14:00:46 A tomato in a muffin cup 14:00:55 Yes, it is quite maddening 14:01:02 What madman did this? 14:02:13 lereah_: if u eat teh cake i will give u access to my secret area of http://img.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1234340335056.jpg 14:03:03 xD 14:05:31 I did that photo :( 14:09:02 is nesting of ( and ) allowed? 14:09:18 jix: yes 14:09:25 :( 14:09:26 although nested ({})% doesn't seem to work 14:09:38 so replacing with ()* for GregorR's interpreter is required 14:09:41 even though that's against the spec 14:10:58 lereah_: >_> 14:11:23 nice pennies 14:11:24 ([)*322 is illegal according to the spec 14:11:40 They're all stored in my old Game Boy bag 14:11:47 btu is in defend9 14:11:48 *but 14:11:53 Except when I have to pay Daddy Cool. 14:12:17 ais523: i'm writing my own interpreter right now and want to make it compatible to what is out there... 14:14:25 I approve of this diagram. http://tanasinn.info/wiki/Mittens 14:16:13     ∧_∧∩        ∧_∧ )/ 14:16:13    ( ゚ ヮ゚)/        (゚ ヮ゚ ) ´ 14:16:13  _ / /   /       _と と ヽ 14:16:13 \⊂ノ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄\   \  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄\ 14:16:13  ||\        \  .||\.        \ 14:16:14  ||\|| ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄||   ||\|| ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|| 14:16:16  ||  || ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄||   ||  || ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|| 14:16:18     .||          ||      .||          || 14:16:19 what interpreter does egobot use? 14:16:20 no 14:16:27 jix: egojoust 14:16:32 it's in the egobot distribution 14:16:33 o_O 14:18:33 ais523: which can be found where? 14:18:45 !info 14:18:46 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ 14:23:20 this looks like the original bfjoust interp https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/rev/1fdbcf450c99 14:23:30 never have I ever 14:23:32 the Perl interp's my original 14:23:43 egojoust: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/rev/d788867c80a2 14:23:48 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 14:24:19 http://tanasinn.info/wiki/Haruhi_Mittens 14:24:35 ais523: and what about the spec saying that ([)*10 is illegal but it being used 14:25:09 jix: if you don't support it, make sure you get nested ({})% working 14:25:17 if you're aiming for compatibility, you should support both 14:25:48 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 14:26:03 what is annoying... that i don't know what kind of pattern i have on the opening ( 14:26:50 lereah_: O^_^O 14:27:06 why not scan ahead to see if you find a { on the same level as it 14:27:10 then jump back and continue 14:27:20 just found another solution 14:30:59 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 14:31:20 [¬º-°]¬ 14:33:19 Gracenotes, are you a /prog/lodyte? 14:34:40 I have been known to browse. and post. 14:35:21 There seems to be a lot of /prog/ people here 14:35:32 well. half of /prog/ possibly. :/ 14:35:43 Heh. 14:35:45 Iunno 14:36:02 /prog/ seems pretty active for a textboard 14:52:51 -!- lereah_ has quit ("Leaving"). 15:12:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:18:43 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:30:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:33:32 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 15:59:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:29:53 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 16:34:23 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:38:57 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:48:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:49:37 -!- myndzi has joined. 16:49:56 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:57:12 -!- Laptop has joined. 16:57:21 -!- Laptop has changed nick to whtspc. 16:57:30 hello 16:57:38 hello 16:57:46 hello oerkan 16:57:49 oerjan 16:57:58 I'm a big time lurker here 16:58:11 but I have a question 16:58:29 ? 16:58:31 so I speak out loud for once 16:58:50 Is there a standalone version of egobot 16:58:52 ? 16:59:06 !info 16:59:07 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ 16:59:10 something alike that I can use without the channel 16:59:17 i don't know 16:59:34 this version is fairly new 17:00:03 you can private message it, anyhow 17:00:29 also, GregorR is the person to ask 17:00:45 ah ok, private 17:01:09 I would like to play around with it at work :) 17:01:36 oh when you are not on irc at all? 17:01:39 whtspc: hg clone https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg egobot/ 17:01:47 yes that's what I mean 17:02:48 pikhq: allthough I'm interested in esolangs, I'm not big computer-nerd 17:03:02 what can I do with that? 17:03:09 compile ? 17:03:18 to standalone? 17:03:29 if you _were_ a big computer nerd, you could probably change the code to make it standalone 17:03:38 exactly 17:03:47 I hoped someone already did :) 17:04:20 * oerjan isn't a big enough computer nerd himself to do that 17:04:36 even if i program some esothings 17:06:23 Ok thanks anyway, I'll try to make some kind of multiple language interpreter myself, I think a not-nerd should be able to do that 17:09:03 I'll move back into anonymity now, speak to you someday, thanks! 17:09:17 whtspc: those are usually called "shells" ;D 17:09:19 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 17:10:11 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 17:20:52 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:23:59 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 17:42:23 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 18:23:53 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:39:23 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 18:44:42 -!- leonid_ has quit ("Leaving"). 18:46:56 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:59:56 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:07:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 19:13:58 where i was: sleeping 19:14:31 RIP i_keelst_thou 19:14:33 2009-2009 19:17:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:19:07 21:35:01 word on the street is that it's being rewritten to run with all 21 lengths, then with one of the program's polarity flipped, then the remaining 21 lengths 19:19:14 teaser :) 19:21:04 21:50:29 thought experiments are fun 19:21:04 21:50:38 especially if you put on thought lab coats and use thought chemicals 19:21:10 truer words have never been spoken 19:24:25 22:02:38 I don't know any perl :( 19:24:25 22:02:42 only know visual basic and jav 19:24:26 22:02:43 +a 19:24:28 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 19:28:09 22:18:52 Thing I was wondering about.. If one has a simple state machine, like f.ex. brainfuck, shouldn't it be relatively easy to detect infinite loops, by checksumming the machines state at the start of a loop, and after each iteration, check if the state (or any state in that loop) recurred? 19:28:10 22:19:03 Might be that I'm thinking wrong, I'm pretty tired already :) 19:28:14 yes 19:28:16 works 19:28:18 patashu is wrong 19:28:20 the problem is 19:28:27 you can't do it on a turing machine, for a turing machine 19:28:38 you can do it on a turing machine for any finite program 19:28:47 Patashu is evry wrong 19:28:49 *very 19:28:56 22:21:59 And that method would fail with +[>+] 19:28:58 finite tape 19:29:36 22:24:01 pikhq: thats because all non-TMs halt :P 19:29:39 ehird: Yes. After that I noted that the halting problem is solvable on a finite state machine. 19:29:39 ... 19:29:46 Absolutely incorrect, psygnisfive. 19:29:50 Erm. 19:29:51 Please don't say such stupid things. 19:29:54 pikhq: yar 19:29:57 *For* a finite state machine. 19:30:01 rite 19:30:21 22:27:23 ((lambda (x x)) (lambda (x x))) ;! 19:30:24 repeats state :-P 19:30:38 pikhq: that's fucked syntax 19:30:47 in Scheme, that takes two arguments, both called x, and then syntax errors. 19:30:48 ehird: Shaddup. 19:31:03 (\x.x x)(\x.x x) -> (\x.x x)(\x.x x) 19:31:06 so it's very state-repeating 19:31:09 I meant ((lambda x (x x)) (lambda x (x x))), of course. 19:31:22 22:29:43 if it's modified to run all tape lengths and both polarities 19:31:23 22:29:50 should all tape length matches have equal weighting? 19:31:24 yes 19:31:28 specialization is for insects 19:31:34 pikhq: (lambda (x) (x x)), for Scheme 19:31:45 22:30:35 anything that doesnt halt /is/ a turing machine, just not a UNIVERSAL turing machine. 19:31:47 Fine. 19:31:48 .................. 19:31:55 psygnisfive: where do your definitions come from? 19:31:56 they're bullshit 19:32:03 I meant (x){x x} (x){x x} 19:32:21 pikhq: No, you meant (λx. x x)(λx. x x) 19:32:27 That too. 19:33:16 heh, this no-more-than-80-columns-and-four-indentations rule is helping my code a lot 19:33:24 since I keep having to split functions :D 19:35:57 22:31:56 ignoring, ofcourse, trivial non-halting behavior like S -> S or similar. 19:36:06 "ignoring the whole point" 19:37:16 22:35:24 leonid_, increase the current cell, decrease it until its zero, increase it... 19:37:16 no 19:37:19 the loop ends when it's zero 19:37:34 [+[-]] = while(cell){cell++;while(cell){cell--;}} 19:37:40 ofc the outer while only runs once 19:45:13 how would you translate this bf loop to a polynomial [-->+<] ? 19:46:36 ehird, maybe you can help here 19:46:45 to me it seems to be a form of division 19:46:47 AnMaster: well, let's analyze the iteration 19:46:54 ehird, sure :) 19:47:06 while(0){0-2, 1+1} 19:47:13 correct 19:47:14 (where x+y is ptr+x = y) 19:47:15 eer 19:47:16 +=y 19:47:17 yep 19:47:18 AnMaster: okay, so 19:47:23 AnMaster: we decrease by two 19:47:33 AnMaster: so, that is basically 19:47:39 times(0/2){1+1} 19:47:46 0=0 19:47:51 yes 19:47:52 AnMaster: this is general, for example: 19:47:56 [->+<] 19:47:57 um 19:47:58 would become 19:48:03 AnMaster: wait 19:48:05 [x] = value of cell x 19:48:08 x = literal x 19:48:11 AnMaster: [-->+<] is 19:48:22 times([0]/2){[1]+=1}; [0]=0; 19:48:26 AnMaster: [->+<] is 19:48:33 times([0]/1){[1]+=1};[0]=0; 19:48:34 where is that notation from 19:48:38 AnMaster: since x/1 = x, it works 19:48:40 and I made it up 19:48:43 AnMaster: but do you see? 19:48:45 ok sure 19:48:56 but how do you avoid iterations in that times? 19:49:01 AnMaster: eh? 19:49:16 AnMaster: oh, i see 19:49:31 AnMaster: well, just do it as if it decremented one. then divide the values by 2 19:49:37 ehird, I would expect [->++<] to be compiled to: p[1] = 2 * p[0]; p[0] = 0; 19:49:49 AnMaster: we're talking about [-->+<] 19:49:54 ehird, we are 19:49:56 which is p[1] = p[0]/2; 19:49:57 so what about it then 19:49:59 p[0]=0; 19:50:07 AnMaster: but, we need to handle odd numbers 19:50:10 let's say p[0]=3 19:50:14 ehird, yes that is the issue 19:50:18 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=1 19:50:27 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=255 19:50:42 then 19:50:50 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=253 19:50:51 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=251 19:50:56 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=249 19:51:00 and so on 19:51:01 yes 19:51:02 AnMaster: etc 19:51:03 up to 19:51:09 [-->+<] p[1]+=1, p[0]=1 19:51:09 down to ;P 19:51:11 (I believe) 19:51:18 AnMaster: so we can conclude that 19:51:20 if the number is odd 19:51:21 it loops forever 19:51:23 and eva 19:51:23 sure 19:51:25 and eva 19:51:30 AnMaster: so, it turns into 19:51:44 if (p[0]%2==0){p[1]+=p[0]/2;p[0]=0;}else{for(;;);} 19:51:51 -!- olsner has joined. 19:51:56 tada 19:51:57 ehird, lets say we have one that must be finite then, as a better example. Like [--->+<] 19:52:07 AnMaster: that doesn't have to be finite 19:52:15 it's infinite if (cell % 3)!+0 19:52:16 *!=0 19:52:42 ehird, with 256-wrapping cells it is always finite 19:52:55 AnMaster: hmm 19:53:00 AnMaster: the extended gcd stuff? 19:53:03 AnMaster: well, then, it's just 19:53:07 might take more than one crossing of 256 19:53:14 AnMaster: lemme write a program to trace it 19:53:16 2 secs 19:53:27 AnMaster: let's say the value is 4 19:54:14 ehird, if (positive_index_cell_diff%2 == 1) it is finite. Where -3 is thus 253. 19:54:20 wait, wait, sec 19:54:26 I think 19:54:43 yep 19:54:45 prog written 19:54:48 AnMaster: end values are 19:54:51 [0]=0, [1]=127 19:54:55 for [0]=4, [1]=0 19:54:59 and [--->+<] 19:55:12 AnMaster: I can run it for another starting value 19:55:21 AnMaster: how about [0]=16, [1]=0? 19:55:26 sure 19:55:38 oh wait 19:55:40 [1]!=127 19:55:49 AnMaster: for [0]=4, [1]=172 at the end 19:55:59 AnMaster: for [0]=16, [1]=176 at the end 19:56:31 AnMaster: so, let's try with 2 19:56:35 but question is, can you know this if you don't know what [0] is at compile time. I mean "know" here as in "know what arithmetic operation to turn it into" 19:56:35 which is the smallest non-trivial even number 19:56:38 ie the one that actually loops 19:56:54 AnMaster: ok, for n=2, it loops 86 times 19:56:58 (and thus [1]=86) 19:57:01 well, maybe 87 19:57:06 0-based indexing throwing me off 19:57:06 whatever 19:57:13 AnMaster: it's probably some modulo thing 19:57:17 ehird, " 0-based indexing throwing me off" <-- you aren't alone 19:57:26 yeah I always have to stop and think 19:58:01 AnMaster: now, it should be calculating 2/3 19:58:06 which is 0.6r 19:58:15 I can manage 0-based arrays pretty well. I kind of "learnt" the important edge cases. Anything else that is zero indexed though... 19:58:31 ehird, question was. Does that actually map to /3... hm 19:58:35 AnMaster: yes, absolutely 19:58:38 it's integer division by 3 19:59:13 >> _0=9;_1=0 => 0 19:59:13 >> while _0!=0; puts "[0]=#{_0} [1]=#{_1} -> [0]=#{_0 = (_0-3)%256} [1]=#{_1 += 1}" end 19:59:14 [0]=9 [1]=0 -> [0]=6 [1]=1 19:59:16 [0]=6 [1]=1 -> [0]=3 [1]=2 19:59:16 ehird, can't map to an integer polynomial then. Expression sure. But not integer polynomial 19:59:18 [0]=3 [1]=2 -> [0]=0 [1]=3 19:59:20 => nil 19:59:22 >> 9/3 19:59:24 => 3 19:59:26 AnMaster: 19:59:36 yeah well, "polynomial" in bf optimization just means "constant expression on tape cells" :P 19:59:46 now if only oerjan was here 20:00:02 i'm sure there's an easy way to figure this out 20:00:07 AnMaster: btw for [0]=1, [1]=171 20:00:18 and for [0]=4, [1]=172 as I said 20:00:19 ehird, so you mean I coded the "integer polynomial library" for nothing? With the distributive laws and simplification and so on 20:00:21 :( 20:00:29 AnMaster: haha, did you actually do that? 20:00:51 ehird, sure. It handles addition and multiplications of two polynomials too 20:00:56 expands them and so on 20:01:10 AnMaster: [0]=5 → [1]=87, [0]=8 → [1]=88 20:01:24 perhaps [0]=(N/2)-1 → [1]=(result_of_N)-1 20:01:31 ehird, about 200 lines of erlang code, including the "special foldl" for generating backend output 20:01:41 err 20:01:43 perhaps [0]=(N/2)+1 → [1]=(result_of_N)-1 20:01:45 mixed that up 20:01:55 err... for which code? 20:02:01 AnMaster: for non-divisors here) 20:02:09 20:00 ehird: AnMaster: btw for [0]=1, [1]=171 20:02:09 20:00 ehird: and for [0]=4, [1]=172 as I said 20:02:13 20:01 ehird: AnMaster: [0]=5 → [1]=87, [0]=8 → [1]=88 20:02:22 (4/2) = 2 20:02:24 2 - 1 = 1 20:02:28 result_of_4 = 172 20:02:30 result_of_1 = 171 20:02:36 (8/2) = 4 20:02:42 4 + 1 = 5 20:02:47 result_of_8 = 88 20:02:52 result_of_4 = 87 20:02:56 AnMaster: so sometimes it's +1, sometimes it's -1 20:02:58 ehird, I can handle loop with +1/-1 for index cell and which only contains adds/sets/"other polynomials" 20:03:01 how queer this is 20:03:18 hm 20:03:29 ehird, so not trivial integer division then? 20:03:43 AnMaster: oh, it's trivial integer division if [0] % N == 0 20:03:47 as in, if it divides properly 20:03:54 it's just the edge-case that produces weird shit 20:04:02 edge-case being [0]%N!=0 20:04:12 where N was? 20:04:18 * AnMaster lost track 20:04:39 AnMaster: number of -s 20:04:41 ehird, problem if, if a compiler handles everything but edge cases just fine then you get GCC. 20:04:47 in [-*N>+<] 20:04:48 and yes, I know 20:04:50 s/if/is/ 20:04:52 it's just weird shit 20:04:58 i mean, it's not an edge case in the code 20:05:04 but it's an edge-case in the intention of the code 20:05:06 ah 20:05:08 (to divide) 20:05:10 anyway 20:05:22 AnMaster: i think esotope detects division 20:05:29 if I know the number of iterations using a polynomial is pointless 20:05:34 i know 20:05:35 since I could just do: 20:05:45 yes 20:05:45 I know 20:05:54 lists:flatten(lists:duplication(NumberOfIterations,BodyOfLoop)) 20:06:01 and then insert that where the loop was 20:06:09 this is very interesting 20:06:16 "duplicate" 20:06:25 not "duplication" 20:06:29 typoed there 20:06:36 ehird, what is interesting 20:06:41 the edge case here 20:06:45 the values it produces 20:06:48 brb need to get some cookie or something 20:06:50 SO I HERD U LIEK MUDJOUST 20:06:59 cookies are tasty 20:07:08 AnMaster: the life of a bf joust implementor is much easier 20:07:12 since we absolutely cannot optimize :) 20:07:12 Oooh, slowrush is down. 20:07:15 And a defender is on top again. 20:07:22 and i_keelst_thou died 20:07:36 and your randomness is fucking up everything :D (see logs) 20:07:44 before AnMaster says anything, yes I'm coding on my interp 20:07:52 I was gonna say it :P 20:08:46 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 20:09:05 i'm at the boring bit now 20:09:05 wanted: Garlic and Bacon cookie. 20:09:07 writing the interp loop :) 20:09:10 AnMaster: Ohmigod. 20:09:15 ehird, just an idea 20:09:20 AnMaster: You should warn me before saying such amazing things. 20:09:27 ehird, why 20:09:32 I might die of shock 20:09:43 ehird, Plus I would have to warn all the time 20:09:44 ais who isn't here: srandom and random should be the same on any system, but my hash is different on 32- and 64-bit systems, so you need to be on 64-bit to get the same result. 20:09:48 since I'm always amazing 20:09:50 ;P 20:10:20 AnMaster: the life of a bf joust implementor is much easier since we absolutely cannot optimize :) <-- yeah, but I don't have to care about timing and running unoptimised code fast 20:10:23 ;P 20:10:34 true enough 20:10:57 ehird, heck, I don't even have to care about running fast. As long as the generated output is fast. 20:11:10 in-between is slow as shit. ~40 seconds for lostking 20:11:20 AnMaster: mine has it even worse than egojoust 20:11:25 egojoust just has to run every battle once 20:11:29 i have to run each battle 42 times 20:11:33 and be just as fast if not faster 20:11:41 bacon joust 20:11:52 not a programming language 20:11:52 i may need to enroll your cfunge microöptimization skills, AnMaster 20:11:59 rather, based on the old jousting 20:12:00 but 20:12:03 with bacon instead 20:12:04 AnMaster: riding on pigs, waving bacon at each other 20:12:10 sounds more like a mating ritual than a fight. 20:12:25 :D I worked out the name for it before the implementation. 20:12:45 which means the name sounds awsome, but I have no idea how it would work. 20:12:56 sorry, I said pig 20:12:58 I meant prebacon, of course 20:13:01 haha 20:13:06 ehird, what about garlic joust 20:13:09 how would it work 20:13:17 AnMaster: riding on pieces of garlic, waving garlic at each other 20:13:20 there may be a slight movement problem 20:13:28 ehird, yeah I don't think that could work 20:13:28 hm 20:13:36 what about using the smell of it instead 20:13:47 the jousters must not eat garlic before 20:13:52 AnMaster: "make your opponent's eye water". 20:13:54 while riding on a horse. 20:13:55 so they can experience the full smell of it 20:14:01 thrilling 20:14:10 ehird, yes, or a gunniea pig (sp?) 20:14:16 guinea pig 20:14:19 ah 20:14:34 btw i have a guinea pig and i can tell you that you'd be stupid to try and test on them 20:14:41 ehird, why is that? 20:14:46 impossible to catch and escape all the time 20:14:46 would it eat the garlic? 20:14:52 oh I see 20:14:52 test on them as in labs, I mean 20:14:58 so it's a bad phrase :) 20:15:06 ah, uh, putting a tape element in the match structure and allocating it may help my interp compile 20:15:47 Nom nom nom. 20:16:03 ehird, still going for the polarity thing? 20:16:07 AnMaster: of course 20:16:12 mhm 20:16:17 AnMaster: yay, it runs 100k cycles instantly 20:16:21 ofc, it doesn't handle wins or anything yet 20:16:28 and the loop logic is ordering-sensitive 20:16:29 ehird, adding that will slow it down 20:16:34 AnMaster: not by much 20:16:40 just a branch or two each iteration 20:17:01 and the loop logic is ordering-sensitive <-- err. Forgive my ignorance. But what the hell does this means in the context of BF loops 20:17:14 AnMaster: if one program does + and the other does [ 20:17:15 or 20:17:19 the program that would do + does [ 20:17:21 ie 20:17:22 ah 20:17:22 swapped 20:17:25 then it changes 20:17:28 isn't it checked at start of loop? 20:17:29 iirc 20:17:31 ........... 20:17:36 AnMaster: the two programs run simultaneously 20:17:40 (a,b) matchup = (b,a) matchup 20:17:42 err 20:17:44 start of turn 20:17:44 duh 20:17:48 is what I meant 20:17:51 AnMaster: yes 20:17:53 i haven't added that yet 20:18:04 ehird, saving it would slow you down 20:18:11 so try to work it out backwards 20:18:11 AnMaster: dude. by 1 cycle. 20:18:14 or 2 cycles 20:18:15 or whatever 20:18:29 only overhead if there actually is a loop then 20:19:07 AnMaster: 20:19:07 % time ./lance 20:19:08 2 20:19:10 ./lance 0.00s user 0.00s system 73% cpu 0.004 total 20:19:12 i'm sure I can spare a few more miliseconds 20:19:14 *milliseconds 20:19:34 That was for it to do ... what? 20:19:39 ehird, shouldn't the two input files be listed there too 20:19:40 GregorR-L: run 200k cycles 20:19:43 although not completely 20:19:45 AnMaster: it's debugging code 20:19:48 GregorR-L: err, 100k 20:19:50 Of what? You didn't give it any programs :P 20:19:55 GregorR-L: it's my interp. 20:19:58 it has built in ones 20:20:00 it's testing code. 20:20:02 Ah 20:20:11 but [>[-]+] and >+[]<[-] 20:20:15 interpreter with built in programs! 20:20:15 :D 20:20:20 AnMaster: currently a total 42 match would take 0.168 seconds 20:20:41 AnMaster: and remember 20:20:43 this is a timeout 20:20:45 there isn't any win logic 20:20:48 so it runs forever 20:20:51 indeed 20:20:52 admittedly, they probably just nop forever 20:20:58 after a bit 20:20:59 but meh 20:21:10 AnMaster: so if there's 10 other programs on a hill, and we run a new program for every polarity/tapelength change (which we won't) 20:21:12 ehird, do you pre-expand * and % 20:21:15 adding a new warrior would take 1.68 seconds 20:21:18 which is just fine 20:21:19 or on the fly 20:21:28 AnMaster: no, I'm going to use nescience's method which avoids expanding them altogether 20:21:33 don't do anything with them atm 20:21:49 ehird, what is this menthod 20:21:51 method* 20:22:01 AnMaster: hard to understand is what it is 20:22:11 try it 20:22:29 I'd guess it it would be interpret the code without expanding it 20:22:30 i can't, i don't understand it. 20:22:31 :) 20:22:34 AnMaster: pretty much 20:22:36 seems fairly straightforward 20:23:30 (+)*3 would then do get_next_instruction(), which would notice at the ) that there are some "not actually expanded" expansions left. 20:23:37 until there wasn't 20:23:49 seems simple enough to handle ({}) too that way 20:24:06 I think it would possibly be slower for short programs though 20:24:10 due to the additional logic 20:24:34 ehird, is that what you meant? 20:26:21 dunno 20:26:42 ehird, do you understand what I mean though? 20:26:55 yes 20:26:57 ask nescience 20:27:34 nescience, there? 20:27:40 nescience, was the above what you meant 20:27:53 ehird, also how would you implement it if you didn't understand it 20:28:05 hmmmm 20:28:10 AnMaster: difficultly 20:28:16 it would seem that hash tables are vulnerable to denial of service attacks 20:28:27 ehird, yeah, that is why I haven't used extended gcd for polynoms yet! 20:28:37 -!- Hiato has joined. 20:28:41 because I don't understand the maths behind it 20:28:45 bsmntbombdood: s/tables // 20:28:53 s/hash /hash functions / 20:28:55 I agree. 20:29:16 ehird, not cryptographically secure hash tables. 20:29:33 AnMaster: hash functions are inevitably DoSable 20:29:45 pigeonhole problem 20:29:59 yes. But good luck doing that for something like sha512 20:30:13 i don't think you understand. 20:30:26 AnMaster: btw sha-1 is being attacked, sha-2 is next. 20:30:26 AnMaster: you can't use all 512 bits for indexing your table 20:30:32 ehird, no I don't understand why you did " bsmntbombdood: s/tables // s/hash /hash functions /" 20:30:36 brute force can only go far— and what bsmntbombdood said. 20:30:41 ehird, and ok. What about Whirlpool. 20:30:46 you'll only end up having to collide 32 bits or so, which is very easy 20:30:48 !bfjoust whoops (-)*127>+[]<-+ 20:30:50 you need a 64-bit hash function 20:30:58 or 128-bit if you have a weird supercomputer 20:30:58 Score for nescience_whoops: 14.4 20:31:03 ha, oh well 20:31:11 not many using something susceptible to that now i guess 20:31:18 nescience, ah, care to explain what you meant then above 20:31:19 .. 20:31:44 !bfjoust spoohw (-)*127>+[]<[[-+]+] 20:31:55 Score for ehird_spoohw: 15.1 20:32:02 ah, randomness. 20:32:04 how i hate thou 20:32:11 !bfjoust whoops (-)*127>+[]<-+. 20:32:22 Score for nescience_whoops: 13.6 20:32:39 err 20:32:42 !bfjoust whoops (-)*127>+[]<.-+ 20:32:52 delay a beat because of double brackets 20:32:53 Score for nescience_whoops: 14.4 20:32:57 still no good, o well 20:33:29 nescience: explain to AnMaster the avoid-expanding thang 20:33:40 also lol i didn't notice there was already a 'whoops' 20:33:55 sure, in a sec 20:34:47 !bfjoust spleen (>(+)*128>(-)*128)*5 20:34:58 Score for GregorR-L_spleen: 8.0 20:35:00 for the case of ({})%N, evaluating left to right as normal, you should behave as follows: 20:35:25 when you encounter {, increase a counter; if the counter is equal to N, proceed on, else jump back to ( 20:35:38 when you encounter ), decrease the counter; if it is equal to 0, proceed on, else jump back to } 20:35:50 otherwise handle [] brackets normally, they can jump back and forth across {} with no trouble 20:36:11 -!- jix_ has quit ("leaving"). 20:36:39 nescience: hm, how is } handled there? 20:36:42 same as {? 20:36:46 ignore it 20:36:49 it's the label, not the jump 20:36:52 ah 20:36:57 ( and } both behave that way 20:37:09 { and ) are the "if/goto" 20:37:20 nescience: how does egojoust handle (a{b}c)*N, I wonder? 20:37:21 parse error? 20:37:23 ignore the { and }? 20:37:27 break randomly? 20:37:29 GregorR-L: ? 20:37:30 Ignore the { and } 20:37:39 Or, more accurately, repeat them in the output :P 20:37:45 GregorR-L: does it still parse them as instructions 20:37:48 but just treat them as nops? 20:37:50 no 20:37:53 they do not take a cycle 20:37:55 They're treated like comments. 20:37:57 do not ignore { 20:38:25 ah, true 20:38:35 it just seems a pain, since you have to delay parsing until ) 20:38:47 well 20:38:53 yeah, you have to know if you have a %loop or a *loop 20:39:00 i had it in mind to pre-process the program 20:39:01 nescience: also, you can treat them as invisible nops 20:39:04 and match up all the brackets, setting pointers 20:39:11 "when {, perform next operation" 20:39:14 yes, but { needs to do more than nop 20:39:14 etc 20:39:25 nescience: not when you're in a * loop 20:39:29 which is the case I meant 20:39:32 you can have nops that last 0 cycles 20:39:36 oh 20:39:37 right 20:39:38 by simply making them do "run-next-cycle" 20:39:44 which seems like the simplest way to parse this 20:40:10 it is probably possible to allow constructs of the form 20:40:18 ([{})%N] 20:40:21 but fuck that shit :> 20:40:34 i mean, supposing the brackets are balanced 20:40:37 http://www37.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how%20to%20program 20:40:48 Deewiant: BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 20:40:51 actually, i'm unsure but i think that all you'd have to do to make that work is not discard your working counter 20:40:53 ahahahhahaahahahaahahahaaa 20:40:58 nescience: idea 20:41:22 nescience: you could make (a[)*Nb(]c)*N work, by transforming it into (a[{b}]c)*N behind the scenes 20:41:26 i.e., just having that as an internal syntax 20:41:31 just for () including [/] 20:41:38 orthogonality++, stillworks++ 20:42:06 yes 20:42:15 you could, but i think the syntax is more confusing 20:42:22 and you have extra syntax constraints (the Ns must match) 20:42:54 nescience: not really 20:43:01 nescience: i mean, intuitively, expansions happen beforehand 20:43:02 so 20:43:07 (a[)*3b)]c)*3 20:43:08 → 20:43:10 err 20:43:11 (a[)*3b)]c)*2 20:43:12 → 20:43:19 fix that syntax 20:43:20 but w/e: 20:43:20 a[a[a[b]c]c 20:43:25 nescience: which is, of course, an unmatched [ 20:43:28 vs unmatched ] 20:43:31 you could just report it as that 20:49:25 i guess 20:49:34 to be honest i don't like the ({}) syntax much 20:49:38 but i like the alternative less 20:49:58 but what i meant is 20:50:03 if you allow ([)*N 20:50:08 people will be tempted to do something like 20:50:18 ([)*4a(])*2b(])*2c 20:50:39 which is still handlable without expanding, but would require more work 20:50:48 and doesn't convert directly to the other syntax 20:51:21 nescience: that is nice, though 20:51:28 can you even do that easily with ({})? 20:51:31 no 20:51:36 i'm not sure it's useful 20:51:39 but someone'll probably try it 20:51:47 you know what might make things more pleasant to look at btw 20:51:50 go all regex style 20:51:53 don't require () for * 20:51:58 but if no () only apply it to the last char 20:52:18 then you'd only have a[*3b]*3c 20:52:21 which looks slightly better 20:52:26 you could probably remove the * entirely 20:52:34 if you assume decimal digits are multipliers 20:52:48 in that case, i might be more tempted to agree with you to getting rid of ({}) 20:52:52 but parsing would be a lot more complicated 20:53:26 you'd probably also have to "scan" ahead when processing 20:53:34 nescience: yeah 20:53:36 that's LR(something) 20:53:38 you can't just jump directly to the same bracket 20:53:45 like you can with ({}) 20:53:51 nescience: if you don't allow 0, 20:53:54 that's the nice thing about it, you don't need any special handling for [] 20:53:56 you can just parse a number as "repeat last command" 20:54:10 +3 -> +, repeat 3 20:54:12 hell, allow 0 just for kicks :P 20:54:16 ewll 20:54:16 repeat 2 20:54:20 nescience: no, that's impossible 20:54:25 +0 -> +, repeat -1 20:54:29 i'm talking about avoiding lookahead 20:54:40 you won't be able to avoid lookahead if you get rid of ({}) 20:54:49 well, you'll have more of it than otherwise 20:55:16 lookahead is the wrong term 20:55:21 it wouldn't be before execution, it'd be after 20:55:27 but you'd have a lot more scanning instead of direct jumps 20:55:28 nescience: i mean trivial syntactic overhead 20:55:31 unless, again, you expand 20:55:36 instead of + looking for a number 20:55:39 you just do + 20:55:42 then a repeat node 20:56:28 nescience, that seems simple enough 20:56:28 well, if you want to avoid lookahead you could always put the digit *before* the code to be repeated 20:56:34 (sorry was away before 20:56:36 ) 20:56:37 3+ 20:56:39 = 3 +'s 20:56:42 3(+-) 20:56:45 = 3 +-'s 20:57:34 nescience: we just need a metalanguage ;0 20:57:35 ;) 20:57:38 *;) 20:57:51 AnMaster: it is, it's just a little confusing to sit down and think about it and realize how simple it is :P 20:58:25 yeah, having to do that is confusingly retarded ;P 21:09:09 ([)*4a(])*2b(])*2c <-- it is useful probably 21:10:53 wut 21:11:17 argh 21:11:27 optimization makes testing hard 21:11:50 bsmntbombdood, optimisation is the root of all evil 21:12:06 don't optimise until you profiled and found it was needed 21:12:08 AnMaster: stupidest thing I've ever heard. 21:12:17 21:11 AnMaster: bsmntbombdood, optimisation is the root of all evil 21:12:22 ehird, famous quote 21:12:24 i give you the prize of Most Distorting Misquotation of Knuth 21:12:28 AnMaster: hahahahaha 21:12:31 AnMaster: not so useful that you can't just write it like 21:12:35 ehird, and yes I know it is a misquote 21:12:53 ehird, I dropped the premature intentionally 21:13:02 AnMaster: you're very stupid. :) 21:13:41 ehird, like... knowing that "or real part less than zero" doesn't mean a number is imaginary? 21:13:44 ([([a{}])*2b{})*2c or something 21:13:48 That kind of stupid? 21:13:50 but it's confusing as hell to do so :P 21:13:55 point in favor of no squigglies 21:14:18 AnMaster: wow, you really are grasping at straws. for one, my position was historically supported; I didn't realize the definition had changed. for two, you couldn't fucking figure out how the extended euclid algorithm works 21:14:41 ehird, nor could you figure out ({}) yourself? 21:14:46 I know how ({}) works. 21:14:56 nescience was in a rush when he explained his method to me yesterday. 21:14:59 the "don't expand" bit 21:15:00 I mean 21:15:01 Therefore it came out garbled 21:15:07 AnMaster: you didn't either 21:15:08 ehird, it was indeed what I thought it was 21:15:16 nescience: indeed 21:15:16 or really anyone else, so? it's just a matter of how much work you wanted to put in 21:15:18 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:15:31 not "intelligence" 21:15:33 nescience, sure do. About jumping to matching ] can be done across {} (assuming no unbalanced [] in {} 21:16:04 !bfjoust test ++({[++]})%2 21:16:09 ... 21:16:15 Score for AnMaster_test: 14.9 21:16:19 errrrrrrrrm 21:16:24 !bfjoust test ++(++{[++]}++)%2 21:16:25 that's not what he was talking about. that was one aspect of it 21:16:32 haha you're funy 21:16:34 funny, even 21:16:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:16:35 Score for AnMaster_test: 10.6 21:16:45 ehird, I'm going to test something in the parser 21:16:47 !bfjoust test ++(+[+{[++]}+]+)%2 21:16:57 Score for AnMaster_test: 12.1 21:16:59 how can you parse that incorrectly 21:17:00 that's trivial 21:17:05 !bfjoust test ++[(+[+{++[}+]+)]%2 21:17:11 !bfjoust test ++[(+[+{++[}+]+)%2] 21:17:13 even 21:17:22 Score for AnMaster_test: 15.6 21:17:22 Score for AnMaster_test: 15.6 21:17:25 ehird, of course you can't 21:17:28 but the latter one you could 21:17:36 the latter one is invalid 21:17:36 you could segfault on it 21:17:39 i'm pretty sure 21:17:55 ehird, yes. And I was hoping for "yet another segv bug" 21:18:00 seems there wasn't however 21:18:06 so now you're flinging shit at GregorR-L's implementation too? 21:18:10 you're really on a jackass roll here 21:18:14 ehird, I were before? 21:18:19 I think it was his one 21:19:08 ehird, Plus, a true malicious user could abuse bugs. Thus it is best if they are uncovered and fixed before. 21:19:12 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:19:15 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA 21:19:24 nescience: am I in an alternate universe where AnMaster just said that? 21:19:28 i mean clog thinks he said it too 21:19:32 but it could be quantum fluctuations 21:19:38 ehird, what is wrong with it. 21:19:47 i don't think a universe where he actually said that could exist without ending due to extreme hilarity 21:20:04 if an interpreter crashes on malformed input resulting in hill messing up. That is a bug 21:20:25 i think i maybe worked out the details about repeating with unbalanced repetitions and brackets 21:20:27 simple as that 21:20:31 haven't sat down and did it yet 21:21:00 but i think you want to keep a decrementing depth counter 21:21:08 since the first repetitions of [ are the "outside-est" ones 21:21:18 then you seek, and dec for every ] or repeated ] 21:21:27 ehird 21:21:29 until your counter is less than one you hit 21:21:33 then you behave as per ({}) 21:21:33 psygnisfive: what 21:21:35 or some variant of that 21:21:44 seems like more work than it's worth 21:21:46 you would do well to read the whole collection of things i said before responding to individual statements 21:22:10 that's not quite right though 21:22:15 ooh, i pissed off psygnisfive 21:22:19 since i quickly recognized that trivial loops are ofcourse possible in non-TMs. 21:22:19 basically the problem you have is when skipping []s 21:22:21 not when repeating them 21:22:21 i logread this way, psygnisfive, so phooey :) 21:22:38 not pissed off, you're just responding to things that dont need response. 21:23:08 well skipping [s and executing ]s 21:23:08 psygnisfive: your mom 21:23:44 then you just have to locate the proper depth 21:23:52 and the real point, ehird, was that some kinds of infinite loops are detectable and avoidable, and those happen to be the kinds that do not require TMs. 21:23:54 it would get possibly tricky if you encounter something like 21:24:00 (a]b])*N 21:24:14 psygnisfive: you can detect an infinite loop on an old 386 using a high-end server, probably 21:24:16 for almost all applications 21:24:21 so it is quite practical 21:24:22 slow though, ofc 21:24:29 and you need a TM to really check finite machines 21:24:34 and if you have a TM, why use finite machines? 21:24:49 thats irrelevant to the point 21:25:04 so's your butt 21:25:36 im going to design a language that compiles into JS. o.o; 21:25:47 been done 834573495 times 21:25:51 there are scheme impls in js 21:25:51 perhaps! 21:25:54 that compile to js 21:26:03 but im going to write my own. 21:26:09 i logread this way, psygnisfive, so phooey :) <-- I completely understand why psygnisfive is irritated. The same way of your "respond before you read it all" have irritated me too. 21:26:43 AnMaster: Waaah! Bitch some more :). And I hope you complain to ais523 about it, too; he does it in Agora - replies as soon as he reads a mail, despite it being answered one after. 21:26:56 But you criticizing ais523 would probably mark the second coming of jesus. 21:27:11 ehird, luckily I'm not involved in Agora 21:27:21 i think the language im going to design is going to be heavily small-talky 21:27:22 I would however do it if I was affected by it. 21:27:38 maybe with some ruby syntax stuff 21:27:43 psygnisfive: there are smalltalks in JS, iirc 21:27:47 ehird, and ais doesn't log read 21:27:52 thats nice, ehird 21:27:56 AnMaster: thankfully I don't care what you think about my logreading responses. 21:28:08 don't read them if you don't like 'em 21:28:23 #esoteric, the opera: AnMaster comes onto stage and says something incomprehensible. You're so stuuuuuupid! You're so stuuuuuupid. You're so stuuuuuuuuuupid! (harmonizing) 21:28:30 ehird, and thankfully I don't care what you think about my multiple naming of the similar programs either 21:28:31 :) 21:28:37 GregorR-L: Fairly accurate. 21:28:49 GregorR-L: One correction. 21:28:57 should be 21:29:07 Somehow I disagree. 21:29:10 :P 21:29:11 ehird, I think he wasn't aiming for a parody 21:29:11 :) 21:29:19 AnMaster: I was joking. 21:29:23 ehird, so was I 21:29:28 SO WAS YOUR FACE 21:29:36 AnMaster: Also, me responding to logreads doesn't affect anyone else. Cluttering the hill with mututally-drawing does. 21:29:37 and your mom 21:29:39 *mutually-drawing programs 21:29:55 AnMaster: Also, me responding to logreads doesn't affect anyone else. Cluttering the hill with mututally-drawing does. <-- yes it does, for whoever got highlighted 21:30:04 AnMaster: /ignore. 21:30:10 You're welcome 21:30:22 ehird, if I ignored you I would miss half of the discussions in here 21:30:22 Y'know what affects people the most? Arguing about stupid things for endless hours. 21:30:30 GregorR, agreed 21:30:31 AnMaster: Youuuuuuuuur loss. 21:30:44 GregorR-L: Oh, it's quite fun. 21:42:32 Good lawd, there's an update every minute all night 21:43:30 GregorR-L: wut 21:44:07 somebody enlighten me: what's a TM? :P 21:44:28 A Turing Machine I assume? 21:44:37 yes 21:44:47 oh, right. 21:45:07 i have no idea why that didn't snap into place immediately 21:45:20 http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?Idx=183 PC/space heater combination! Get yours now! 21:45:25 oh hey, microsoft finally coughed up the $$ for my live cash back account 21:54:55 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report-2009-05-29-20-17.avi 21:54:57 nescience: are you = myndzi\? :P 21:55:03 GregorR-L: .avi? 21:55:04 what codec? 21:55:08 MPEG4 21:55:14 mpeg 4 in .avi? 21:55:21 GregorR-L: Quicktime says it's divx. 21:55:24 I'm using mencoder and I'm lazy. 21:55:26 DivX is MPEG-4. 21:55:32 ... erm, it is? 21:55:35 Yes. 21:55:44 hm 21:55:45 so it is 21:55:49 GregorR-L: i don't want to install divx shit 21:55:52 :< 21:55:58 can you convert to something more palatable 21:56:02 Quicktime requires that you install DivX to decode standard MPEG-4? 21:56:05 That's retarded. 21:56:09 GregorR-L: it doesn't 21:56:11 which is why I asked 21:56:14 but it told me to in this case 21:56:21 GregorR-L: The sorted rankings might've been more interesting to see 21:56:27 I didn't even encode it with DivX, I encoded it with lavc, but I set the fourcc to DIVX because most players don't support LVM4 21:56:33 Or whatever that fourcc is. 21:56:39 GregorR-L: well, do it the LVM4 thing then 21:56:40 LMP4? FMP4 maybe? 21:56:49 GregorR-L: what is the video actually of? 21:56:55 The report changing over time. 21:56:58 ah. 21:57:00 I'm just gonna stick it in a .mp4 :P 21:57:40 !bfjoust slowpoke_revengist (>)*9((-)*128[-[+]]>)*21 21:57:51 Score for ehird_slowpoke_revengist: 29.7 21:58:35 23:56:13 with a little gap 21:58:38 since 2004, apparently 21:58:40 dunno when the gap was 21:58:47 23:56:54 ( i moved from anagol) <-- same 21:58:52 was this advertised on anagolf? 21:59:31 !bfjoust slowpoke_revengist (>)*9((-)*128[---[+++]]>)*21 21:59:42 Score for ehird_slowpoke_revengist: 31.0 21:59:51 23:57:15 me korea 21:59:55 the one that has internet or the one that doesn't have internet :D 21:59:58 !bfjoust slowpoke_revengist (>)*9((-)*128[---[+++]]>)*21 22:00:07 GregorR-L: wtfslow 22:00:09 Score for ehird_slowpoke_revengist: 31.0 22:00:36 !bfjoust slowpoke_revengist (>)*9((-)*128[(+)*128]>)*21 22:00:47 Score for ehird_slowpoke_revengist: 20.2 22:00:59 !bfjoust slowpoke_revengist (>)*9((-)*128[(-)*128]>)*21 22:01:09 Score for ehird_slowpoke_revengist: 19.8 22:01:12 00:03:47 anagol 22:01:12 00:03:49 more like 22:03:11 ehird: yes i am myndzi 22:03:21 this is my laptop at work, myndzi is my home client 22:03:30 right 22:03:52 !bfjoust revengist (>)*9[[<+<+>>-]<[>>+<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->]+] 22:04:02 Score for ehird_revengist: 15.4 22:04:03 hmm that's a terrible algorithm 22:04:06 heh 22:04:41 Bleh upload so slow. 22:05:27 ehird: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report-2009-05-29-20-17.mp4 22:05:40 *quicktime freezes* 22:05:50 oh, there it is 22:06:01 GregorR-L: oh my god the quality is awful 22:06:08 That's really not the point. 22:06:08 it looks like someone soaked the paper 22:06:26 GregorR-L: the realigning is kind of irritating, and it should probably be ordered by rank 22:06:33 since atm it's just... a bunch of flickering :P 22:06:46 also that text rendering looks like... WINDOWS. 22:06:47 Let me put my response as plainly as possible. 22:06:48 FUCK 22:06:49 YOU 22:06:57 GregorR-L: You forgot "QED" 22:07:55 ehird: The previous one looked better 22:08:00 Quantum Electro Dynamics 22:08:04 Deewiant: If only I could watch it 22:08:06 You have only yourself to blame :-P 22:08:15 Do I? 22:08:19 "i don't want to install divx" 22:08:20 (I could probably stick it into VLC, but meh.) 22:08:25 Deewiant: divx = shitware 22:08:28 it adds a bunch of crap to your system 22:08:35 so, nothx. 22:08:36 Not unless you ask it to 22:08:50 Deewiant: i've never told it to and it always does 22:09:00 Uhhhhhh 22:09:05 The previous one didn't look better. 22:09:06 Although admittedly, I haven't installed it since something like over 5 years ago 22:09:08 I didn't reencode. 22:09:20 Well now it's gone so I can't compare 22:09:41 Maybe I'm just confused, whatever 22:09:46 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 22:10:00 SKEPTOVISION 22:10:03 Good lawd why don't people understand this. 22:10:33 I could understand my player fucking something up for different container formats :-P 22:10:57 MPEG-4 is a video format. DivX is an encoder that encodes to MPEG-4. .avi has the unfortunate property that it names things by the encoder, not the format. So when I make MPEG-4 .avi's, I call them DIVX, because that's supported most everywhere and everything recognizes that it's just MPEG-4. Except of course for ShitTime. 22:11:41 So the fact that Quicktime wants to install DivX is just stupidity to the power of stupidity. 22:12:20 I know. 22:12:26 From now on I'm making all my videos with ffhuffv video and snow audio so nobody can play them but me :P 22:12:32 whut 22:12:45 Those are both ffmpeg-specific formats. 22:12:47 :D 22:12:52 I can play ffvhuff 22:13:02 Oh yeah, ffvhuff, not ffhuffv ... I was close :P 22:13:03 And if snow is ffmpeg then I can play that, too :-P 22:13:29 And so's your FACE. 22:13:34 YOUR FACE BITCH 22:13:39 You're face bitch 22:16:33 00:50:45 it's unhealthy to drink milk, for adults 22:16:38 Also, unfounded assertion. 22:17:49 00:53:06 Polish cursewords are quite complez 22:17:49 00:53:10 complex 22:17:51 00:53:28 you can create new oneswhen you need 22:17:53 a metalanguage just for swearing? :D 22:18:42 00:50:45 it's unhealthy to drink milk, for adults // this isn't untrue, just outdated. 22:18:57 Presumably nooga is cro-magnon. 22:18:58 GregorR-L: It's certainly an assertion provided without foundation. 22:19:13 GregorR-L: oh, that'd explain his intelligence 22:19:17 INSTANT RIMSHOT DOT COM 22:19:30 Cro-magnons were no less intelligent than us, but sure :P 22:19:50 GregorR-L: Uh... That's the joke! 22:19:51 INSTANT RIMSHOT DOT COM 22:20:29 !google omg liek wtf 22:20:30 http://google.com/search?q=omg+liek+wtf 22:20:40 [[Of modern nationalities, Finns are closest to Cro-Magnons in terms of anthropological measurements.]] 22:20:42 fins r dum 22:20:46 !show google 22:20:46 bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[>[-]>[-]<<[>+>+<<-]>>>[-]++++++++[<---->-]<[[-]>+<]>-[<<[-]>+++++++[<++++++>-]<+>>[-]]<<.[-]<,] 22:21:09 !bfjoust google +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[>[-]>[-]<<[>+>+<<-]>>>[-]++++++++[<---->-]<[[-]>+<]>-[<<[-]>+++++++[<++++++>-]<+>>[-]]<<.[-]<,] 22:21:20 Score for Deewiant_google: 6.2 22:21:26 Google sux 22:21:39 :D 22:21:51 !bf_txtgen I am killing you with the power of my mind. 22:21:57 444 +++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>--.<++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>++++.<<<.>++++++++++.>.>-..<.>++.<--.<<.>>>+++++++++++.<<++++.++++++.<.>>>--.<++.<-.>-.<<.>.>.---.---------------------------------------------------------------------.>-------.-.++++++++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--.>.<---.<+.>>.<--.>>++.<.<.----.+++++.<--.>>++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. [902] 22:22:10 !bfjoust telepath_homicider +++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>--.<++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>++++.<<<.>++++++++++.>.>-..<.>++.<--.<<.>>>+++++++++++.<<++++.++++++.<.>>>--.<++.<-.>-.<<.>.>.---.---------------------------------------------------------------------.>-------.-.++++++++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--.>.<---.<+.>>.<--.>>++.<.<.----.+++++.<--.>>++++++++++++++.----------------------- 22:22:13 -------------. 22:22:15 dammit 22:22:16 oh well 22:22:19 they miss a dot 22:22:21 Score for ehird_telepath_homicider: 3.8 22:22:25 \o/ 22:22:30 i anti won! 22:22:32 !bfjoust i_am_kiling_you_with_the_power_of_my_mind +++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>--.<++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>++++.<<<.>++++++++++.>.>-..<.>++.<--.<<.>>>+++++++++++.<<++++.++++++.<.>>>--.<++.<-.>-.<<.>.>.---.---------------------------------------------------------------------.>-------.-.++++++++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--.>.<---.<+.>>.<--.>>++.<.<.----.+ 22:22:32 ++++.<--.>>++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. 22:22:35 Maaaaaaaaand 22:22:40 *Maaaaaan 22:22:46 Score for GregorR-L_i_am_kiling_you_with_the_power_of_my_mind: 3.8 22:22:56 !bf_txtgen oh shit nooooooooooooooooooo 22:23:00 119 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++>+<<<<-]>++++++.>-.>++.<<++++.>.+.<+.>>.<+++++.+......<-----..>..<...>......>>-----. [998] 22:23:01 !bftextgen I kill you with the power of my mind! 22:23:24 !bfjoust oh_shit_nooooooooooooooooooo +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++>+<<<<-]>++++++.>-.>++.<<++++.>.+.<+.>>.<+++++.+......<-----..>..<...>......>>-----. 22:23:28 !bf_txtgen You are dead. Is this awesome? [Y/N] 22:23:30 334 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++++>++++++++++>++++<<<<-]>>+.>+.++++++.<<-.>++++++++.>---.<++++.<.>>--------------.+.----.+++.>++.<<<.>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<++++++++++++++.<.>+.>++++.+.<-.<.>>--------.<++++.>++++.<----.----.--.>.>----------.<<<.>>----------.--.>----------------.<-----------.<----------------.<----------------------. [497] 22:23:37 Score for GregorR-L_oh_shit_nooooooooooooooooooo: 8.5 22:23:39 !bfjoust f +++++++++++[>+++>++++++++>++++++++++>++++<<<<-]>>+.>+.++++++.<<-.>++++++++.>---.<++++.<.>>--------------.+.----.+++.>++.<<<.>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<++++++++++++++.<.>+.>++++.+.<-.<.>>--------.<++++.>++++.<----.----.--.>.>----------.<<<.>>----------.--.>----------------.<-----------.<----------------.<----------------------. 22:23:50 Score for ehird_f: 3.8 22:23:57 !bf_txtgen I kill you with the power of my mind! 22:23:59 269 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>--.-----------------------------------------.<++.>>.+++..<.>>+.<<<++++.++++++.>.>>--.<---.>---.<-.<.<-.>>.---.<.<----.-.++++++++.>>.>--.<<.>>---.<+.<.>+++++++.<<++.>.>.>------.<+.>-----.<<+.-----------------------. [802] 22:24:07 !bfjoust pikhq +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>--.-----------------------------------------.<++.>>.+++..<.>>+.<<<++++.++++++.>.>>--.<---.>---.<-.<.<-.>>.---.<.<----.-.++++++++.>>.>--.<<.>>---.<+.<.>+++++++.<<++.>.>.>------.<+.>-----.<<+.-----------------------. 22:24:17 Score for ehird_pikhq: 3.8 22:24:36 !bfjoust . 22:24:36 Use: !bfjoust 22:24:42 !bfjoust . . 22:24:53 Score for pikhq__: 9.9 22:25:11 MI ESTAS VEJNANTO! 22:26:48 !bfjoust pooper_scooper [[>+<-]>] 22:26:59 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 0.0 22:27:04 YES! 22:27:06 I WINS 22:27:08 haha what 22:27:26 that lost against everything 22:27:29 how did you do that GregorR-L 22:28:15 Idonno :P 22:28:25 I prevented anything from running off the tape I guess. 22:28:31 While zeroing my flag. 22:28:53 Lawlz. 22:29:13 !bfjoust vejni [>+<-] 22:29:17 Might work better. 22:29:24 Score for pikhq_vejni: 1.8 22:29:30 CURSES. 22:30:06 I think it lost against pooper_scooper 22:30:44 01:14:29 my IQ went from 137 to 50 22:30:46 what, really? :P 22:31:06 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 22:31:13 ehird: I can do that. No sleep for two or three days. 22:31:24 to 50? are you sure 22:31:26 Erm. Actually, no. 22:31:37 That just cuts my IQ in third, getting me to dead average. 22:34:03 I believe pikhq just claimed his IQ is 300. 22:34:11 GregorR-L: Yeah, I thought that for a second :P 22:34:11 Making him the smartest human being who ever lived. 22:34:14 I think he means 133. 22:34:18 100/3 = 33.3r 22:34:29 ... wait, no. 22:34:34 Yeah, he just said his IQ is 300 :P 22:35:51 GregorR-L: Erm. 22:35:57 Thinko. 22:36:03 pikhq: so what did you mean :P 22:36:06 I meant 150. 22:36:29 I'm not exactly demonstrating that right now. :p 22:37:10 150 is very unusually high; is the source here an internet IQ test? :P 22:37:11 So, chop off a third and it goes down to 100. 22:37:21 ehird: Nope. School-administered. 22:37:30 SATAN-ADMINISTERED 22:37:45 (some teacher thought I was retarded because I was bored in class and not paying any attention.) 22:37:55 pikhq: I'm not sure I believe you. Heck, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/IQ_curve.svg ends at 140 with a tiny, tiny percentage :P 22:38:50 ehird: And then realise that we're all on that end of the bell curve. 22:39:02 I don't think that is true. 22:39:12 Well, yes, that end. 22:39:13 But not that far. 22:39:46 We find Brainfuck a simple and easy language. 22:40:05 We create and use difficult programming languages because it's entertaining. 22:40:23 pikhq: Finding brainfuck simple and easy != intelligence. IQ = pattern matching ability. 22:40:45 There's at least some correlation with IQ there. 22:41:27 Obviously an imperfect one, since the IQ tests are rather flawed, but still. 22:42:35 I just find it unlikely that the reading of 150 was unbiased and accurate. 22:43:15 Ploopiforbleboopidoopdoop. 22:43:55 GregorR-L: From that line, I deduce that your IQ is 72.94. 22:44:04 I'd say there's about a 1 in a few thousand chance of it being accurate. 22:44:20 ehird: MARF BLEEP GORBLEN TWERL! 22:44:36 GregorR-L: 71.7 22:44:50 pikhq: Hey, more likely than winning the lottery. 22:45:02 Indeed. 22:45:15 Significantly more-so, in fact. 22:45:40 ehird: Frankly, your discourse occurs to me as malignant and POOPY-HEADED. 22:45:53 GregorR-L: 150 22:46:16 GregorR-L: Thy discourse is shameful to us all. 22:46:22 pikhq: 11 22:46:32 ehird: This is true of thine, as well. 22:46:42 pikhq: vut 22:47:30 ehird: Wallow in thy shame. 22:47:52 GregorR-L: Thou should consider it, but 'twould require more shame from thee. 22:48:02 pikhq: -42 22:48:06 You're anti-meaningful. 22:48:06 y tongue is doth curse. 22:48:33 Sweet! I wrapped arround! 22:48:46 GregorR-L: doþ, þou mean'st. 22:48:54 pikhq: 4,294,967,254? 22:49:10 pikhq: Yeah, I noticed at :( 22:49:20 GregorR-L: If you use an int for it. 22:49:30 I wonder what sort of society would need an int for IQ. 22:49:38 SUPERALIENS 22:49:56 pikhq: By the way, if your IQ _is_ 150, then you're in the 99.997th percentile. 22:50:00 That's 0.003% :P 22:50:13 Wait, no. 22:50:13 That's more common than my chrome allergy. 22:50:15 That's 160. 22:50:15 ehird: Bah. 22:50:23 pikhq: a bit over the top 0.1% 22:50:27 (=99.9th percentile) 22:50:33 * Top 0.00003% (99.99997th percentile; IQ 175 sd15, IQ 180 sd16): OLYMPIQ Society, PARS Society 22:50:37 Also known as the "liar society" 22:51:05 HAHAHAHA 22:51:08 http://olymp.iqsociety.org/ 22:51:09 author link: 22:51:12 http://www.ELLHNAS.com/ 22:51:15 Damn, talk about egotistical 22:51:19 0.1%? All of Finland and a million elsewhere, then 22:51:33 I tend to regularly be in about the 99.9th percentile on standardised tests given in school. Man, those things were easy. 22:52:03 pikhq: [[The ceiling of most standardized (validated and normed) intelligence tests is at around 99.9th percentile. Measurements above this level need — for a credible result — a calculation, extrapolation and interpretation (including observations during the tests and sub-tests) by psychometricians experienced in high IQ testing, and at least two differently designed standardized tests (among these at least one supervised) should be performed.]] 22:52:09 lawl 22:52:23 * ehird crushing hopes and dreams since 1995 22:52:30 ehird: Well aware that they stop meaning much in the 140-150 mark. ;) 22:52:34 "a Greek medical doctor known also as GrIQ" 22:52:36 Wow 22:52:52 GregorR-L: His site's opening page is so creepy 22:52:53 "You're really, really fucking smart. Um, yeah. I got nothing." 22:53:03 A MILLION GRIQS ALL STARING AT EACH OTHER AND YOU 22:53:44 so like 22:53:59 "Sigma VI 99.9999999% QI>196 +6s " 22:54:03 i was just trying to explain to someone why a 32 bit prng is insufficient for properly doing card games 22:54:05 Membership: 0 people 22:54:15 ehird: lawl 22:54:20 and he tells me "random is random" (referring to mirc's built in PRNG, which is probably just the c library, which is ass) 22:54:35 nescience: lol 22:54:37 Wow. 22:54:39 GregorR-L: [[Membership of The Giga Society is ideally open to anyone outscoring .999999999 of the adult population on at least one of the accepted tests.]] 22:54:39 i explain why, and then he responds "random is random" 22:54:55 he wants me to prove to him that you can make a shuffle algorithm that'll generate teh same deck twice 22:54:56 nescience: It uses measurement of the americium particles in your computer. 22:54:58 I don't even know what that percentile is 22:55:10 >273648234? 22:55:11 it so happens that i have like 5 prngs ported to mirc though so that was easy to do :P 22:55:22 lol americium? is that a diss on americans? 22:55:51 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:55:55 ........... americium is a common alpha radiator used most popularly in smoke detectors but also in "true" random number generators. 22:56:02 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 22:56:11 There's also europium 22:56:20 GregorR-L: [[Many think the Giga Society can only have six or seven members as a result of its admission level and the size of the world population. This is false. The top six or seven are not the same individuals at each moment but are being replaced constantly. And as existing members are not expelled when they are no longer among the top six or seven, a multiple of that number of members is possible over time.]] 22:56:21 And einsteinium. 22:56:42 "Not just six or seven. If more intelligent people grow up and the previous ones stay alive, we could have up to TWENTY members!" 22:57:09 [[As an aside, the member list is not public]] 22:57:14 INTELLIGENCE=SECRECY 22:57:26 GregorR-L: And oxygen! 22:57:26 the owner calls himself the Psychometitor 22:57:30 Don't forget oxygen 22:57:40 i guess i need to l2periodic table 22:57:40 [[one must be careful with information found on do-it-yourself online encyclopaedias, as there is a tendency for megalomaniacs to write themselves into the member list. ]] 22:57:41 Dude. 22:57:46 Your fucking society is based around being megalomaniacal. 22:57:48 well anyway, i have no such hardware card 22:57:53 and the discussion was about software PRNGS anyway 22:57:54 * nescience shrugs 22:58:20 ehird: I suspect that those eligible include Hawking and some other freak out there. 22:58:36 (Hawking is not likely to be a member; I recall him saying that such societies were just stupid) 22:58:51 pikhq: What is it with people thinking that good physicist = overflowing IQ? 22:59:29 ehird: Arg. I heard somewhere that he actually had an absurdly high IQ. Now that I think of it, I was able to find no evidence of such. 22:59:55 DAMMIT, RUMORS. STOP PERMEATING MY BRAIN. 23:00:12 Per-meat-ing 23:02:16 -!- olsner has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:02:23 Hmmmm. 23:02:29 * GregorR-L tries to think of a meaning of per-meat-ing. 23:02:39 interesting 23:02:54 "I'd like to sell you this meat. How much?" "2 dollars permeating." 23:03:21 GregorR-L: "Hey gal, what's the rate?" "50 dollars per meating." 23:03:26 -!- olsner has joined. 23:03:33 ehird: laaaaaaaawl 23:06:24 brb 23:07:04 OMFG 23:07:11 I need orn Porn! 23:07:17 RULE 34 23:07:29 Þorn porn? 23:07:33 Tempting. 23:07:59 Maybe '' dropped out of English because it looks so effing similar to 'p' :P 23:08:30 Worked a bit better with þ written like it was in runes. 23:08:42 |> 23:08:48 The little round bit looked more... ›-like. 23:08:52 Yeah. 23:10:07 Yeah, but p's were written that way too, then :P 23:11:15 * pikhq pulls up the futhark, hoping to say 'no'. 23:11:38 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:11:50 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 23:11:58 Yeah, perþ looks completely different. 23:12:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9B%88 23:12:18 Erm. 23:12:21 Peorð, I mean. 23:12:38 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:12:46 Hm 23:13:37 Wynn looks similar, though. 23:13:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9A%B9 23:15:19 So, who's gonna make orn porn? 23:15:44 Þou. 23:15:47 Hmm, interesting 23:16:00 Didn't know there's a Unicode block for runes 23:16:13 FireFly: There's a Unicode block for almost everything. 23:16:19 There's a unicode block for fekking ogham. 23:16:27 Well, true 23:16:27 The esoteric crypto runes. 23:16:45 Ogham? Off to wiki -> 23:16:59 There's even a proposal for Voynich. 23:19:33 lol 23:19:45 nobody even knows what it says 23:19:46 Yes, Unicode will probably soon support a script that has been used for exactly one known document. 23:19:51 That nobody understands. 23:19:55 awesome 23:20:01 can't wait to go trollin' forums with that 23:20:06 "Probably"? 23:20:22 That a proposal exists doesn't mean it'll be accepted 23:20:51 Deewiant: It's likely to be included in the next Unicode version, though. 23:21:05 Whence do you get this "likely" 23:21:32 well think about it 23:21:42 if you have that many symbols available and nothing better to do with them..? 23:21:44 :) 23:21:55 There have been rejected proposals in the past, more sensible ones than Voynich :-P 23:22:05 they even have unicode butterflies! Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 23:22:18 For instance, Klingon wasn't accepted 23:22:25 ey didn't accept Klingon? :( 23:22:37 WHAT 23:22:41 "2001-May-21, rejected by the UTC as inappropriate for encoding, for multiple reasons stated in L2/01-212. (Lack of evidence of usage in published literature, lack of organized community interest in its standardization, no resolution of potential trademark and copyright issues, question about its status as a cipher rather than a script, and so on.)" 23:22:41 klingon should totally be accepted 23:22:43 also quenya 23:22:44 :> 23:22:49 And yet, ey do have frikkin Ogham. 23:22:55 Deewiant: It is being reconsidered. 23:23:16 Yes, I imagine that interest would certainly have increased since 2001 23:24:15 so yeah. unicode quenya anyone? :( 23:24:21 The Klingon community has since published literature, has a standards organization, and has more importantly started using Klingon script. 23:24:26 myndzi\: It's being considered. 23:25:11 One should make a programming language based on Klingon 23:25:18 But it's probably been done 23:25:26 I think it has 23:25:37 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Var%27aq 23:25:45 Hm 23:25:56 But then again I know nothing 'bout Star Trek :P 23:26:14 Damn, it seems an xchat plugin can't catch input before it's sent. 23:33:26 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:23 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:46 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 23:44:21 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 23:50:01 -!- nooga has joined.