01:06:30 <ehird> [[The one number it gave that seemed like it might be the number of infant deaths per year was actually the total number of deaths per year, multiplied by one child, i.e. pure nonsense.]]
01:10:06 <ehird> <me> gdp/deaths
01:10:13 <ehird> <W|A> $993,258.23 per person
01:10:17 <ehird> it got it right!!
01:10:25 <ehird> using estimates from 1993-2008 too
01:11:48 <ehird> ais523-in-future: i think they're improving it. It handles "gdp/average human height in centimeters"
01:20:55 <ehird> x!=0,   log(x)!=0,   x^(3/x^3+1/x^2+1)!=0,   y = (x^3 (-W_n(-(e^((log(x))/x^2-(3 log(x))/x^3) log(x))/x^3))+x log(x)-3 log(x))/(x^3 log(x)),   n element Z
01:21:06 <ehird> x=1, y-1; x=2, y=0
01:21:08 <ehird> x^y - x^3y + x - 3 = 0
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02:02:36 * Sgeo goes to set up a Paypal account while on Windows
02:03:57 <Sgeo> Unless a hacker's thinking of using a 2-minute Window between me transfering funds to the account and when I purchase stuff with it, I think I'm safe
02:06:35 <pikhq> They've already hacked in.
02:07:22 <Sgeo> I'm not going to hook it up to any "real" stuff
02:07:54 <Sgeo> "Once you link your bank account or credit card, you'll speed through online checkout without exposing your financial information." No thanks
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02:11:06 <pikhq> I wouldn't trust Paypal to be hooked to a credit card or bank account if I had Knuth do a formal analysis of the OpenBSD operating system and *then* installed OpenBSD.
02:11:41 <pikhq> Now, if I could replace Paypal itself with OpenBSD, then maybe we'd be talking.
02:11:44 <pikhq> :p
02:12:56 <Sgeo> I'm just going to use some SL money
02:13:05 <Sgeo> I should probably start working on my SL product
02:13:21 <Sgeo> And figure out how to receive Paypal payments
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05:29:08 <bsmntbombdood> woot
05:29:14 <bsmntbombdood> i can actually play 1080p now
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06:50:45 <evincar> Honk blarg blarg.
06:50:58 <evincar> How's everyone doing?
06:51:40 <bsmntbombdood> hello evincar
06:56:04 <evincar> Oy.
06:56:11 <evincar> Pretty dead tonight, then, eh?
06:57:41 <bsmntbombdood> eh.
07:02:41 <Sgeo> I think I may accidentally have done something that my dad will kill me for
07:02:53 <evincar> Oh?
07:03:19 <Sgeo> Turned L$ into USD and deposited into a paypal account
07:03:28 <Sgeo> I have no clue about the tax implications
07:04:06 <bsmntbombdood> ??
07:04:48 <Sgeo> L$ is the currency used in Second Life
07:05:24 <psygnisfive> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=612999
07:05:24 <psygnisfive> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8l10s/a_brief_history_of_grammar/
07:05:25 <psygnisfive> http://digg.com/general_sciences/A_Brief_History_of_Grammar/
07:05:27 <psygnisfive> vote em up :3
07:05:57 <bsmntbombdood> no.
07:06:01 <bsmntbombdood> i has a core i7
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08:50:50 <oerjan> <ehird> People who strip the fat of bacon are evil agents of the End Times.
08:52:17 <oerjan> lean, mean, evil agents who can easily outrun you
09:14:26 <GregorR-L> Wow. I hear this car zoom up behind me, so I start bleeding off speed (which is my automatic being-tailgated reaction), and look in the rear-view mirror to see ... a cop ... tailgating me ... without his lights on. He veers off of me and into the next lane, then zooms up and starts tailgating the next guy, whose automatic reaction was to speed up, presumably to faster than the speed limit, at which point the cop pulled him over.
09:16:51 <Gracenotes> [-_-]
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09:23:26 <oerjan> hm...
09:26:30 <oerjan> _is_ it really the case that a single /// substitution can only loop if the destination contains the source?
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09:47:11 <Gracenotes> ⍥
09:47:41 * oerjan paranoidly checks for unicode
09:47:47 <oerjan> darn i was right
09:51:55 <Gracenotes> APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL CIRCLE DIAERESIS
09:52:39 <oerjan> Öh.
09:56:34 <oerjan> /abcabc/bcabcabca/abcabc  fails as the destination contains the source
09:57:02 <oerjan> even though two destinations can combine to create an extra copy
09:57:42 <oerjan> hm...
09:58:19 <oerjan> /abb/bbaab/abb
09:58:26 <oerjan> er
09:58:31 <oerjan> /abb/bbaab/abbabb
09:58:50 <oerjan> um no
09:59:48 <oerjan> /abb/bbaab/abbbb -> bbaabbb -> bbbbaabb
10:00:53 <oerjan> d'oh
10:02:26 <oerjan> /abb/bbaab/abbbb -> bbaabbb -> bbabbaabb -> bbbbaabaabb -> bbbbaababbaab
10:06:02 <oerjan> indeed that works
10:06:30 * oerjan just added a fourth debugging level to the interpreter just to check that :D
10:07:05 <oerjan> hm i wonder...
10:13:42 <oerjan> oh, also /ab/bbaa/abab, that's probably the simplest
10:25:50 <oerjan> make that /ab/bbaa/abb
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14:25:52 <AnMaster> Interesting. GCC generates better code at -O2 for do{...}while(foo); loops than while(foo){...}
14:26:12 <AnMaster> that is when foo is assigned just a few lines before
14:26:21 <AnMaster> so it could easily figure out that the loop will always be run
14:26:29 <AnMaster> in theory at least
14:32:21 <pikhq> GCC's optimisation is not exactly best-in-class.
14:32:30 <pikhq> It's just rather good.
14:32:45 <pikhq> Just like almost everything else about GCC.
14:33:03 <pikhq> So, it managed to be one of the best compilers by not being bad at much anything. ;)
14:33:37 <AnMaster> heh
14:34:41 <olsner> being the only generally available compiler certainly helps too
14:35:06 <pikhq> Well, yes. It *is* just about guaranteed to be available for your platform.
14:35:58 <pikhq> Unlike, say, icc, which is for i686-pc-linux-gnu, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, i686-pc-windows-microsoft, and x86_64-pc-windows-microsoft...
14:36:20 <pikhq> Or MS VC++, which is available for half of those.
14:36:47 <AnMaster> um
14:36:48 <AnMaster> clang
14:37:16 <AnMaster> pikhq, you forgot that icc handles Linux on Itanium too
14:37:20 <pikhq> Yes. That's the only compiler I see replacing GCC,
14:37:34 <pikhq> For about the same reasons that GCC got to be ubiquitous.
14:37:56 <pikhq> Except that it's a bit better.
14:38:41 <fizzie> There's ICC for OS X and QNX, though.
14:38:51 <AnMaster> for QNX too? heh
14:38:54 <AnMaster> OS X I did know
14:39:47 <fizzie> Well, it's listed on http://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-compilers/ at least; I don't know about up-to-date versions. And no Fortran compiler on QNX.
14:46:25 <pikhq> Still, ICC sucks for non-Intel processors.
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15:53:05 <AnMaster> anyone know a good non-compiled language to use for output to test lostking? From GCC I always get "out of memory". Even when letting it use 1 GB.
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16:05:59 <asiekierka> hi
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16:23:53 <ehird> psygnisfive: dude, why di you submit that to proggit
16:23:57 <ehird> it has nothing to do with programming
16:24:11 <ehird> also, downvoted for news site whoring.
16:24:19 <psygnisfive> it was the closest thing i could think to add it to, given whats on the sites :P
16:24:34 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics
16:24:44 <psygnisfive> ...
16:24:48 <psygnisfive> THAT WAS SO NOT ON THE LIST
16:24:53 <psygnisfive> omg wtf
16:24:57 <ehird> psygnisfive: the list lists the most popular reddits.
16:24:59 <ehird> there are thousands.
16:25:04 <psygnisfive> ugh
16:25:08 <psygnisfive> had i know
16:25:14 <psygnisfive> well, adding it there too i guess?
16:25:36 <ehird> i'm going to log into digg and slashdot and hn for the first time in ages and downvote them too because i hate "UPVOTE DIS" buttons :)
16:25:50 <psygnisfive> well ill remove those buttons just for you then :P
16:25:50 <ehird> ooh, I don't have to for HN, the submission's deleted
16:26:07 <psygnisfive> is not!
16:26:11 <ehird> psygnisfive: oh?
16:26:15 <ehird> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=612999
16:26:17 <ehird> psygnisfive: "[dead]"
16:26:19 <ehird> I beg to differ, sir.
16:26:36 <psygnisfive> A Brief History of Grammar (wellnowwhat.net)
16:26:36 <psygnisfive> 3 points by psygnisfive 10 hours ago | 1 comment
16:26:37 <psygnisfive> 
16:26:39 <psygnisfive> 1 point by cendrillonea 8 hours ago | link
16:26:41 <psygnisfive> I really enjoyed this, and thought it was a well-detailed account that more than adequately explained the evolution of the grammar we use today.
16:26:44 <psygnisfive> reply
16:26:47 <ehird> Hacker Newsnew | comments | leaders | jobs | submitlogin
16:26:47 <ehird> [dead]
16:26:49 <ehird> discuss
16:26:51 <ehird> 
16:26:53 <ehird> 1 point by cendrillonea 8 hours ago | link
16:26:55 <ehird> I really enjoyed this, and thought it was a well-detailed account that more than adequately explained the evolution of the grammar we use today.
16:26:57 <psygnisfive> looks like youre hallucinating :(
16:26:58 <ehird> reply
16:27:00 <ehird> psygnisfive: you can see it because you are the submitter, I infer.
16:27:05 <psygnisfive> oh
16:27:06 <ehird> for everyone else...
16:27:07 <psygnisfive> possibly!
16:27:12 <ehird> yer submission's dead
16:27:15 <psygnisfive> oh. this is true. :(
16:27:17 <psygnisfive> aww
16:27:21 <psygnisfive> lame
16:31:08 <psygnisfive> did you read any of it ehird?
16:31:28 <ehird> i don't care about grammar, tbh
16:32:00 <psygnisfive> ok
16:32:05 <psygnisfive> you should still read it
16:32:16 <psygnisfive> its not so much about grammar as in "what do languages do blah blah blah"
16:32:26 <psygnisfive> and more about grammar formalisms
16:32:41 <psygnisfive> which is a very different thing
16:32:53 <psygnisfive> to sum up for you the TG account:
16:33:34 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
16:33:48 <psygnisfive> you have a finite language, that produces some small set of "kernel sentences", and then you have a number of unrestricted production rules that modify a sentence in particular ways, including adding in recursive elements
16:34:29 <psygnisfive> the TG approach wanted to see what was a sufficient enough set of kernel sentences and transformational rules in order to account for all over natural language
16:35:01 <ehird> psygnisfive: βß
16:36:17 <psygnisfive> beta eszet
16:36:23 <psygnisfive> why do you say bss? :(
16:36:37 <ehird> psygnisfive: because fhd
16:36:41 <Slereah> Isn't beta more of a /v/ sound?
16:36:48 <ehird> Durünglork toshmosh, psygnisfive!
16:36:51 <psygnisfive> it is in modern greek, yes
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16:41:54 <psygnisfive> anyway, ehird, you should check it out. just because. :P
16:42:08 <ehird> rewrite it in tardglish and i will
16:42:25 <psygnisfive> dee dee dee
16:45:25 <ehird> Download now a shareware DOS executable version of UUdecode. Or, download a zipped version of the same.
16:45:26 <ehird> You can find fancier implementations of uuencode and uudecode in various places, but they do basically the same processing that my versions do. But if you are a software developer, beware that none of those other implementations make available the source code so that you can incorporate uuencode and uudecode functions into your own projects.
16:45:31 <ehird> Only $75!
16:45:33 <ehird> http://my.execpc.com/~adw/uu.html
16:45:40 <ehird> It's written in BASIC!
16:45:57 <psygnisfive> wot
16:46:05 <ehird> Indeedy.
16:49:27 <psygnisfive> http://www.flickr.com/photos/xorsyst/3494215156/
16:49:28 <psygnisfive> i want this
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16:56:57 <ehird> ISO 3103 is a standard published by the International Organization for Standardization (commonly referred to as ISO), specifying a standardized method for brewing tea. It was originally laid down in 1980 as BS 6008:1980. It was produced by ISO Technical Committee 34 (Food products), Sub-Committee 8 (Tea).
16:56:59 <ehird> The abstract states the following:
16:57:01 <ehird> The method consists in extracting of soluble substances in dried tea leaf, containing in a porcelain or earthenware pot, by means of freshly boiling water, pouring of the liquor into a white porcelain or earthenware bowl, examination of the organoleptic properties of the infused leaf, and of the liquid with or without milk, or both.
17:01:13 <ehird> "Just as liberal feminists are frequently content with a minimal agenda of legal and social equality for women and 'pro-choice', so liberal (and even some socialist) mathematicians are often content to work within the hegemonic Zermelo-Fraenkel framework (which, reflecting its nineteenth-century liberal origins, already incorporates the axiom of equality) supplemented only by the axiom of choice."
17:06:01 <psygnisfive> ehird: was this tea standard introduced by a brit?
17:06:03 <psygnisfive> it sounds like it
17:06:15 <psygnisfive> also: i love tea :D
17:06:27 <ehird> I have a feeling I'd like tea if I could be arsed to make it Properly(TM).
17:06:51 <psygnisfive> well are you following the ISO 3103 standardized method for bewing tea?
17:07:05 <ehird> Well, no.
17:07:09 <psygnisfive> theres your problem!
17:08:55 <fizzie> It also suggests the obvious (non-regexp) solution: building a ISO 3103 compliant tea-making robot.
17:09:17 <ehird> Letter O considered harmful
17:09:17 <ehird> During the same Fortran Standards Committee meeting at which the name "FORTRAN 77" was chosen, a technical proposal was somehow smuggled into the official distribution, bearing the title, "Letter O considered harmful". This deceptively simple proposal purported to address the confusion that sometimes arises between the letter "O" and the numeral zero, by eliminating the letter from allowable variable names. However, the method proposed was to eliminate t
17:09:22 <ehird> he letter from the character set entirely (thereby retaining 48 as the number of lexical characters, which the colon had increased to 49).
17:09:25 <ehird> Among the "PRO" arguments was the assertion that this would also promote structured programming, by making it impossible to use the notorious GO TO statement as before. (Troublesome FORMAT statements would be eliminated, as well.)
17:09:29 <ehird> The sole "CON" argument conceded that "this might invalidate some existing programs" but noted that most of these "probably were non-conforming, anyway".[16][17]
17:11:46 <psygnisfive> lol
17:11:49 <psygnisfive> oh fortran
17:12:46 <psygnisfive> im off to get food
17:12:50 <psygnisfive> i love you all :D
17:12:51 <psygnisfive> <3
17:13:20 <Slereah> Even me?
17:13:35 <psygnisfive> no.
17:14:38 <Slereah> :(
17:14:44 <ehird> http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6782/hackerbymetallicbox.jpg
17:14:45 <Slereah> WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME
17:14:48 <ehird> Freemason=Hacker
17:15:04 <Slereah> MASON
17:16:20 <asiekierka> ^style
17:16:20 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
17:16:29 <asiekierka> ^style c64
17:16:29 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
17:16:32 <asiekierka> fungot: do stuffs
17:16:33 <fungot> asiekierka: two lines located on the serial bus secondary device address, the microprocessor from a low active chip select conditions have been moved up, or via dedicated handshaking lines.
17:17:22 <ehird> "Mitnick served five years in prison, of which four and a half years were pre-trial and eight months were in solitary confinement because the Judge was convinced he could start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone if he were near one."
17:17:23 <ehird> I WHISTLED FOR A NUCLEAR BOMB AND WHEN IT CAME NEAR THE LICENSE PLACE SAID "FRESH" AND HAD DICE IN THE MIRROR
17:44:10 <AnMaster> ehird, where is that quote from
17:44:26 <ehird> AnMaster: it's complicated.
17:44:32 <ehird> which quote are we referring to?
17:44:45 <AnMaster> the one about the nuclear war and the judge
17:45:27 <AnMaster> ehird, though I guess I should ask about the upper case line too.
17:45:45 <ehird> [[Kevin Mitnick]].
17:45:59 <AnMaster> uncyclopedia right?
17:46:01 <ehird> No.
17:46:03 <ehird> Wikipedia.
17:46:07 <AnMaster> made up?
17:46:10 <ehird> no.
17:46:13 <AnMaster> HUH!
17:46:27 <ehird> And the UPPERCASE QUOTE is from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air's theme song; if you don't have an attuned sense of post-hipster irony it may just be best to know that it's a *chan meme.
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17:47:25 <AnMaster> ehird, ah
17:47:32 <ehird> Well.
17:47:36 <ehird> s/CAB/NUCLEAR BOMB/
17:47:38 <ehird> Just a minor adjustment.
17:47:39 <AnMaster> "In addition, as per the plea deal, Mitnick was prohibited from profiting from films or books that are based on his criminal activity for a period of seven years."
17:47:42 <AnMaster> err what...
17:47:50 <ehird> What do you mean, what?
17:48:06 <ehird> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159784/
17:48:18 <ehird> There was a movie made ... very, very loosely based ... on Mitnick.
17:48:26 <ehird> Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery loosely.
17:48:31 <AnMaster> I see
17:50:14 <AnMaster> ehird, why would he be forbidden from making money on such movies
17:50:33 <AnMaster> I can't see how a movie would harm anyone
17:50:36 <ehird> AnMaster: To stop him coming out on top?
17:50:42 <AnMaster> hm ok
17:50:44 <ehird> If he profits from selling his story, he's profiting from committing crimes. Indirectly.
17:50:50 <ehird> It's stupid, but I can see where it's coming from.
17:50:54 <AnMaster> ok, makes kind of sense I guess.
17:51:01 <AnMaster> if you see it that way
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18:08:01 <ehird> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1562#comment-18623
18:09:48 <psygnisfive> DYNO MIIIIITE
18:09:48 <fizzie> The nuclear war quote is a "sourced statement" in the sense that it's from a newspiece saying "-- Mitnick was put in solitary confinement and prevented from using a phone after law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone, he [Mitnick] said." A bit funny that Wikipedia presents it as fact.
18:11:17 <pikhq> ... Seriously.
18:11:55 <pikhq> Mitnick able to start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone?
18:12:17 <pikhq> Could we *seriously* get some judges that know anything about the technology they maintain?
18:12:21 <pikhq> Erm.
18:12:26 <pikhq> Preside over.
18:14:12 <fizzie> Given that it's only Mitnick himself who said they were worried about he being able to start a nuclear war, it is conceivable that he might have been a bit hyperbolic there.
18:14:27 <pikhq> True.
18:14:44 <pikhq> By '95, inband signaling was outmoded.
18:15:10 <pikhq> So, he couldn't even conceivably do the Cap'n Crunch hack and get free long distance.
18:15:35 <fizzie> (Not that knowledge and judges exactly seem to meet often in, say, the EFF legal case descriptions.)
18:15:49 <pikhq> Yeah...
18:16:03 <pikhq> And legislators aren't much better.
18:16:27 <pikhq> (come on people: making bits uncopiable is like making water not wet. You're not doing it.)
18:17:06 <ehird> I nevercopybitslu1
18:17:12 <ehird> SHIT SHIT
18:17:15 <ehird> *I nevrcopybitslu1
18:17:44 <ehird> intelcua propty
18:17:45 <pikhq> I sense copied bits.
18:17:57 <ehird> well i was not copying bytes can I get off with a slap on he wrist
18:20:00 <ehird> *the
18:27:51 <asiekierka> I have getc/putc already. What else do I need?
18:27:58 <asiekierka> er
18:28:19 <asiekierka> i have getc, putc/puts, hex2string, divmod (crappy), initalization. What do I need next for my C64 kernel?
18:29:58 <ehird> greenity
18:31:10 <pikhq> fork
18:31:14 <fizzie> Generally speaking, a process scheduler is often a nice thing to have in an operating system.
18:31:22 <pikhq> Possibly also a fork.
18:31:40 <asiekierka> ...Shouldn't i get file I/O first?
18:31:58 <pikhq> ... Filesystem?
18:32:23 <fizzie> I guess the order is up to you; most people certainly would appreciate a file system too, yes.
18:33:13 <asiekierka> Well, the filesystem is Commodore default
18:33:39 <asiekierka> also, forking needs a whole multitasking infrastructure
18:34:12 <ehird> that's not much
18:34:22 <asiekierka> yes it is
18:34:26 <ehird> uh k
18:34:35 <asiekierka> well
18:34:44 <fizzie> It's more than what DOS had. :p
18:34:55 <asiekierka> I need to make the CIA programming code, the "state copier" code, and the "process selector" code
18:36:21 <fizzie> Anyway, with "file system" I was more talking about the kernel/user interface for accessing files than any on-disk formats or such.
18:36:44 <asiekierka> well
18:36:50 <asiekierka> i do need the kernel interface to access files
18:36:58 <asiekierka> but yeah, I should get forking there first
18:37:17 <ehird> Forking operating system!
18:37:21 <ehird> Forking computer! Just work!
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18:49:50 <ehird> % sudo port install xorg
18:49:55 <ehird> [giant lag as a slow tcl program calculates dependencies]
18:49:59 <ehird> it's been going for ~5 minutes now
18:51:06 <fizzie> What's wrong with X11.app, then?
18:51:43 <ehird> fizzie: This is the same Xquartz codebase, actually; it's just that MacPorts' matlab needs xorg-xextproto thing, and:
18:51:45 <ehird> Requested 'x11 >= 1.1.99.1' but version of X11 is 1.1.5
18:51:59 <ehird> and I looked for the new X11.app but it wants me to upgrade OS X to a newer minor release and I can't be bothered
18:52:13 <pikhq> ehird: What version of Tcl does that sucker run on?
18:52:15 <ehird> so i'm installing via this, which hopefully won't say thus
18:52:28 <ehird> % sudo port install xorg
18:52:29 <ehird> --->  Fetching xorg-applewmproto
18:52:30 <ehird> finally
18:52:32 <ehird> pikhq: how do I check
18:52:40 <ehird> LOL
18:52:49 <ehird> as it tried to install xorg, the same error
18:52:49 <fizzie> There's a matlab in macports?
18:52:54 <ehird> fizzie: er.
18:52:55 <ehird> I meant maxima
18:52:59 <fizzie> Ah, right.
18:53:02 <pikhq> tclsh
18:53:08 <ehird> pikhq: I get a %.
18:53:09 <pikhq> % info tclversion
18:53:11 <ehird> ah
18:53:17 <ehird> pikhq: 8.5
18:53:33 <pikhq> Hmm. I could've sworn 8.5 had a good bytecode compiler.
18:53:35 <pikhq> *shrug*
18:53:42 <ehird> long_description\
18:53:42 <ehird> X11, or X, is a vendor-neutral, system-architecture neutral \
18:53:44 <ehird> network-transparent window system and user interface standard. \
18:53:46 <ehird> In other words, it is a GUI for UNIX. X can use your network -- \
18:53:48 <ehird> you may run CPU-intensive programs on high powered workstations \
18:53:50 <ehird> and display the user interface, the windows, on inexpensive \
18:53:52 <ehird> desktop machines.
18:53:54 <ehird> 80s fuck yeah
18:54:17 <ehird> Hmm.
18:54:23 <ehird> How can I obliterate AppleX11 from my system, one wonders.
18:54:42 <pikhq> It's a .app.
18:54:59 <ehird> pikhq: I'm pretty sure the usual X11 files are shat in their usual place.
18:55:08 <ehird> pikhq: Evidence: I have a /usr/X11.
18:55:11 <ehird> Guess I'll obliterate that too.
18:55:12 <pikhq> ... *Really*?
18:55:17 <pikhq> That's vomit-worthy.
18:55:25 <ehird> pikhq: Xorg's organizational system is vomit-worthy.
18:55:33 <ehird> I mean, /usr/X11? C'mon, that's not very unix of you.
18:55:34 <pikhq> Indeed.
18:55:44 <ehird> /opt/X11 is FHS, /usr is modern-unix-OS
18:55:55 <ehird> Although Xorg uses /usr in recent versions, I think.
18:56:03 <ehird> And also uses HAL instead of xorg.conf by default, so perhaps we're seeing some sanity.
18:56:12 <pikhq> I don't have a /usr/X11.
18:56:18 <ehird> There you go then.
18:56:23 <ehird> Do you have /usr/X11R6?
18:56:35 <pikhq> I do have an xorg.conf, but that's because my monitor needs a specific modeline that can't be autodetected.
18:56:47 <fizzie> I have an /usr/X11R6, but there's only a symlink "bin -> ../bin" in it.
18:56:55 <pikhq> (the thing came with freaking Windows drivers, because it's signalling was broken)
18:56:59 <pikhq> I don't have a /usr/X11R6.
18:57:07 <ehird> *its
18:57:12 <pikhq> Which is good, considering I don't have X11R6 installed.
18:57:21 <ehird> pikhq: can't you configure HAL for it?
18:57:48 <pikhq> Also, when I set up X, I didn't have HAL installed.
18:58:12 <ehird> ah
19:00:03 <ehird> % port installed|grep xorg|awk '{print $1}'|xargs sudo port uninstall
19:00:11 <ehird> hmm, "% port installed|grep xorg|awk '{print $1}'|xargs sudo port uninstall xrender xpm " first actually
19:00:12 <fizzie> Heh, Debian's "x11-common" contains (in addition to the /usr/X11R6/bin -> ../bin symlink) also an /usr/bin/X11 which is a symlink to ".". I'm guessing compatibility-to-broken-programs related reasons.
19:00:15 <ehird> oh, Xft2 as well, heh.
19:00:22 <asiekierka> You know, I'm going to make flipbooks
19:00:23 <asiekierka> oh no
19:02:02 <ehird> Let's try this now then.
19:02:05 <ehird> % sudo port install xorg
19:10:23 <ehird> sloooooooooooow
19:10:26 <ehird> pikhq: speed it up
19:13:13 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i has a core i7
19:13:26 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: yes. and you're ruining it with hyperthreading ;-)
19:14:00 <bsmntbombdood> latency not throughput
19:14:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: "cache thrashing not not cache thrashing"
19:14:30 <ehird> "hack not not hack'
19:14:34 <ehird> s/'$/"/
19:15:59 <asiekierka> fungot: Do something cool!
19:16:00 <fungot> asiekierka: when an nmi interrupt. the table that starts at 6. bit map are arranged in 25 rows of 40 columns, the
19:17:42 <fizzie> fungot: To be honest, that wasn't so cool.
19:17:42 <fungot> fizzie: in other words, the
19:18:21 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: think i'm ruining performance on this ssd with encryption?
19:18:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: encrypting an OS drive?
19:18:40 <ehird> you're barmy :)
19:18:42 <ehird> but, yes
19:18:49 <ehird> that would most likely be bad
19:20:31 <bsmntbombdood> hmm, yes
19:20:50 <bsmntbombdood> echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; dd if=data bs=1M count=2K of=/dev/null
19:20:54 <bsmntbombdood> 2147483648 bytes (2.1 GB) copied, 18.8341 s, 114 MB/s
19:20:56 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: but if you're not doing the lvm alignment you're already showing RECKLESS ABANDON for performance, so ;-)
19:21:07 <ehird> also, sequential operations for the fail
19:21:13 <ehird> most OS work = random read/writes
19:21:17 <ehird> of small data
19:21:27 <bsmntbombdood> well, it's supposed to get 200mb/s sequential reads is what i'm saying
19:21:56 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: if you disabled hyperthreading, SECURE ERASE'd that drive, and set up lvm2 with the alignment incantations, you could probably get away with it
19:22:00 <ehird> ;;;;;;)
19:22:29 <bsmntbombdood> the alignment will only maybe help with writes
19:22:47 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: yes, but writes are common
19:22:50 <ehird> think about firefox
19:22:56 <ehird> visit a page? 345734859345 gajillion small writes
19:24:12 <bsmntbombdood> i love how my disk is in ram
19:24:53 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:25:32 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: btw, you are mounting /tmp as tmpfs right?
19:25:35 <ehird> do that.
19:25:41 <ehird> loadsa speed benefits, less ssd writs
19:25:42 <ehird> writes
19:25:43 <ehird> hi ais523
19:26:00 <bsmntbombdood> i'm not, but i will
19:26:20 * ehird twitches
19:26:42 <AnMaster> p[7]=p[7];
19:26:53 <AnMaster> I somehow suspect I need to work on that optimiser a bit!
19:26:55 <ehird> AnMaster: an extension of Ayn Rand's A=A?
19:27:16 <AnMaster> ehird: Partly implemented copy propagation:
19:27:17 <Slereah> WHO IS JOHN GALT
19:27:18 <AnMaster> -p[0]=p[7];
19:27:18 <AnMaster> -p[5]+=p[0];
19:27:18 <AnMaster> -p[7]=p[0];
19:27:18 <AnMaster> -p[0]=0;
19:27:18 <AnMaster> +p[5]+=p[7];
19:27:19 <AnMaster> +p[7]=p[7];
19:27:25 <ehird> Slereah: JOHN GALT=JOHN GALT QED
19:27:39 <AnMaster> needs to be cleaned up to remove that dead node
19:27:42 <AnMaster> and hi ais523 btw
19:28:25 <asiekierka> ^help
19:28:25 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:28:30 <bsmntbombdood> why is sort(1)'s default buffer size 32 mb?
19:28:35 <asiekierka> ^bool
19:28:35 <fungot> No.
19:28:38 <bsmntbombdood> yuck
19:28:44 <asiekierka> Hey, that's rude!
19:28:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:28:59 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: tmpfs                 4.0G     0  4.0G   0% /tmp happy now?
19:29:25 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: do you still have hyperthreading enabled? >:)
19:29:40 <bsmntbombdood> yes
19:30:03 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:30:13 <ehird> hi ais523
19:30:25 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: then no :-P
19:30:29 <ehird> [i'm just kidding around]
19:31:03 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: linux top is report cpu usage funny
19:31:09 <bsmntbombdood> percentages go over 100%
19:31:14 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: that's cores
19:31:14 <asiekierka> dun dudun
19:31:22 <ais523> bsmntbombdood: it measures in erlangs
19:31:24 <ehird> 400% is max, or maybe 800% for hyperthreading
19:31:28 <bsmntbombdood> no
19:31:31 <asiekierka> but still, IT'S OVER 100!
19:31:37 <ais523> 100% means full use of one core
19:31:44 <ais523> so if you have dual-core, it can go up to 200%
19:31:55 <bsmntbombdood> one process can't
19:32:04 <asiekierka> What if someone has 4 4-core PCs?
19:32:07 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: threads, foo
19:32:08 <bsmntbombdood> i saw firefox go up to 250%
19:32:09 <asiekierka> er
19:32:11 <asiekierka> i mean
19:32:12 <asiekierka> CPUs
19:32:13 <asiekierka> Can it go to 1600%?
19:32:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: two pthraeds can max out two cores
19:32:18 <ehird> *pthreads
19:32:21 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: things that i know are singlethreaded went to 102%
19:32:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: aha, I know why
19:32:38 <ais523> and it can go higher still under certain setups, like quad-core processors
19:32:43 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: the i7 transfers power from idle cores
19:32:48 <ehird> ais523: bsmntbombdood has a quad-core
19:32:51 <ais523> ah, ok
19:32:52 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: to nonidle ones
19:32:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: iirc something like 30% faster clockspeed sometimes
19:33:02 <ehird> presumably it doesn't tell linux this
19:33:07 <ehird> so it can exceed 100% of stock clock speed
19:33:33 <bsmntbombdood> i don't think so
19:33:41 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you think i'm wrong?
19:33:43 <ehird> look it up
19:33:48 <bsmntbombdood> i know that it can do that
19:34:09 <fizzie> It's a bit confusing that the "%CPU" does that 100% == full use of a single core, but in the summary "Cpu(s):  3.8%us --" it's 100% == all processors in use.
19:35:05 <bsmntbombdood> and sometimes top says that top or xterm is using like 75%, which is weird
19:41:52 <bsmntbombdood> i can't believe how much ram i have
19:42:09 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you'd better; it made up a large chunk of the price :P
19:42:14 <fizzie> I can't believe it's not butter.
19:42:36 <bsmntbombdood> and btw, nv is shit
19:43:30 <bsmntbombdood> i couldn't even play a movie at anything but the original size
19:44:56 <fizzie> You can sort-of blame Nvidia for not releasing the hardware specs like ATI/AMD did.
19:45:39 <bsmntbombdood> whatever, the binary drivers work fine
19:46:11 <fizzie> That's probably the other reason people haven't been reverse-engineering nvidia stuff more.
19:46:26 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: beats ati drivers at least
19:46:49 <bsmntbombdood> with these drivers i can play 1080p just fine
19:47:22 <fizzie> What sort of card was it again?
19:47:22 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: how lowest-common-denominator.
19:47:30 <ehird> fizzie: really old passive Nvidia from sparkl
19:47:30 <ehird> e
19:47:39 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: couldn't even come  close with nv
19:47:50 <bsmntbombdood> 9400 isn't _that_ old
19:48:06 <ehird> well, okay, not old
19:48:07 <ehird> just shitty
19:48:08 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: an extension of Ayn Rand's A=A? <-- btw, what did you mean with that?
19:48:12 <bsmntbombdood> it does cuda
19:48:16 <ehird> AnMaster: it's kind of complicated
19:48:30 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: true. Anyway, you told me you had no gfx card requirements :P
19:48:34 <AnMaster> ehird, short summary?
19:48:40 <ehird> AnMaster: "Ayn Rand is a retard"
19:48:57 <AnMaster> ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand ?
19:49:00 <ehird> yes
19:49:02 <ehird> ok, was a retard.
19:49:14 <Slereah> I actually once tried to make a language based on A=A
19:49:15 <ehird> she's dead now, which is a positive aspect.
19:49:20 <ehird> Slereah: Objectivist C
19:49:50 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i should have gotten a GTX 295 or something
19:50:05 <Slereah> Forgot the specs, but here's a program : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Fibo.jpg
19:50:12 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: is my sarcasm-o-meter setting off correct?
19:51:08 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: depends on what reading it is giving you
19:51:20 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: DING! Sarcasm!
19:51:20 <fizzie> The nvidia binary driver also added that VDPAU thing recently; it was long so that it supported only a bit of xvmc, and only for geforce series <=7. (The readme says G96, which is in 9400, does IDCT+motion-compensation on the card for MPEG1/2, H.264 and VC1 (WMV), and bitstream decoding only for h.264; G98 would do also the bitstream decoding part on the card for mpeg1/2 and wmv.
19:51:35 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder how capable this card is with cuda
19:52:19 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: maybe i should get an nvidia tesla though
19:52:53 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: so was the reading correct
19:53:00 <bsmntbombdood> obviously
19:53:05 <ehird> good
19:54:15 <bsmntbombdood> not about the tesla though
19:58:26 <fizzie> My passive gf7600gt card, with it's crummy G73 gpu and no VDPAU support in the nvidia drivers, can't do 1080p video in this rather-less-than-high-end system. :/ (Admittedly I don't think I have any 1080p media either.)
19:59:02 <bsmntbombdood> i downloaded a couple of clips to test
20:00:52 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined.
20:01:45 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Your card is somewhat shitty for 3D stuff, but should handle most any video you throw at it.
20:02:16 <bsmntbombdood> i don't think it's worth it to download a 15gb full movie though
20:02:23 <bsmntbombdood> instead of a 700mb one
20:03:04 <pikhq> What resolution is your monitor?
20:03:10 <ais523> 1280x800
20:03:51 <bsmntbombdood> only 1280*1024
20:04:07 <pikhq> Look for 720p videos.
20:04:20 <pikhq> That being the best that your monitor can display.
20:04:26 <bsmntbombdood> ja
20:04:36 <pikhq> And also, your graphics card is overkill for 720p video.
20:04:49 <pikhq> My Geforce 6300 does 720p video just fine. :p
20:04:55 <fizzie> This 1920x1200 would suit 1080p rather well, if I had a habit of watching any moving pictures.
20:05:05 <ehird> 20:03 bsmntbombdood: only 1280*1024
20:05:07 <ehird> dude.
20:05:15 <ehird> why are you using such a tiny monitor on such a powerful system :P
20:05:36 <pikhq> I'm going to agree with ehird on this one.
20:05:43 <bsmntbombdood> i know, i know
20:05:45 <ehird> it's like wiring a cray up to a 14" CRT and playing a card game, a few decades ago
20:05:47 <ehird> :P
20:05:49 <pikhq> I've got a 1400x900 monitor, and that's because I'm cheap. ;)
20:06:00 <ehird> well, 14" crt isn't quite cray era
20:06:04 <ehird> let's say a dumb greenscreen terminal
20:06:15 <pikhq> Let's say a teletype.
20:06:23 <pikhq> With paper and everything.
20:06:25 <bsmntbombdood> a teletype will suit a cray just fine...
20:06:41 <pikhq> Home computers of the era had better output.
20:06:43 <bsmntbombdood> hopefully you are not wasting your cray on rendering eye candy
20:06:47 <fizzie> Funny, according to wp "G86 and G98 [quite different from the G86 -- features VC-1 video decoding completely in hardware] cards are both sold as "8400 GS", the difference can only be told from technical specifications". It's like they *wanted* to confuse people.
20:07:12 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 'card game' being the operative word
20:07:46 <pikhq> Hmm...
20:07:48 <pikhq> Which Cray?
20:08:16 <pikhq> Cray-2, perhaps?
20:08:25 <bsmntbombdood> i can beat 100 crays
20:08:51 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: How many gigaflops does your computer offer?
20:09:02 <ehird> pikhq: fuck that, how many bogomips?
20:09:33 <bsmntbombdood> bogomips: 5879.85
20:09:37 <bsmntbombdood> from /proc/cpuinfo
20:09:45 <pikhq> I don't know how many bogomips the Cray offers.
20:09:48 <fizzie> That's a lot of bogons generated.
20:10:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: that's not many at all
20:10:05 <bsmntbombdood> what can i get to benchmark floating point?
20:10:14 <ehird> turn of hyperthreading, bitch :-)
20:10:33 <pikhq> My crappy Sempron offers 3215.44 bogomips.
20:10:38 <ehird> *off
20:10:40 <bsmntbombdood> i think that is *4
20:10:51 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: *8 because of STUPOTHREADING
20:11:12 <fizzie> I get only 2000 bogomips... though I think that number changes when the cpufreq machinery decides to go up from 1 GHz to whatever-the-normal-frequency-was.
20:12:18 <fizzie> Heh, yes. If I start a "while true; do X=y; done" loop in another terminal, the bogomips rating goes to 5628.88. (2.8 GHz seems to be the normal frequency of a X2-5600+.)
20:12:39 <ehird> :-D
20:12:50 <Deewiant> bogomips: 6290.04
20:12:59 <ehird> Deewiant: what cpu?
20:13:00 <ais523> what's with the caps there in the variable assignment?
20:13:03 <ais523> and why that assignment at all?
20:13:05 <ehird> ofc, this is very ghz-dependent
20:13:18 <Deewiant> ehird: Q9550, overclocked to 3.something
20:13:32 <ehird> ew, overclockers. /me steps away from Deewiant
20:13:35 <ehird> dirty overclocker :|
20:13:35 <fizzie> ais523: I couldn't think of what a no-op would be.
20:13:36 <bsmntbombdood> i need to overclock this processor
20:13:37 <Deewiant> (Default being 2.[89]something)
20:13:43 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: et tu, brute‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽
20:13:51 <Deewiant> ehird: Dirty? :-P
20:13:54 <bsmntbombdood> huh?
20:13:56 <ehird> Deewiant: yes.
20:13:57 <ehird> :-D
20:14:01 <Deewiant> How so
20:14:07 <ais523> fizzie: the null string usually works
20:14:18 <ais523> although I'm not sure offhand if it would be do; done or do done
20:14:27 <fizzie> ais523: Well, "while true; do; done" gets bash: syntax error near unexpected token `;'
20:14:33 <ehird> i have an allergy to "HARDKOR" gamers and the related ilk. which happens to encompass just about anyone who knows hardware without being able to program, and anyone under the discipline of such invented by and as.
20:14:43 <fizzie> And "while true; do done" => "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `done'"
20:14:45 <ehird> if the sentence got ungrammatical later on it's because it ended up not being tuned to say what i was saying
20:14:50 <ehird> so i gave up
20:14:53 <ehird> fizzie: while true; do; done
20:14:54 <ais523> ok
20:14:58 <ehird> oh
20:14:59 <ehird> ic
20:15:00 <Deewiant> fizzie: Interestingly, that works in zsh.
20:15:07 <ehird> indeed
20:15:08 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, bash is... peculiar.
20:15:22 <Deewiant> dash agrees with bash here.
20:15:29 <ehird> dash? :-D
20:15:36 <ais523> "while true; do; done" fails in dash too
20:15:38 <Deewiant> Yes, dash.
20:15:41 <bsmntbombdood> i'm downloading serenity in 720p
20:15:42 <ais523> grr, Deewiant beat me
20:15:42 <ehird> you so funny
20:15:46 <bsmntbombdood> we'll see how this is
20:15:47 <ais523> I have it installed, but it isn't my default shell
20:16:07 <ais523> ~ $ while true; do; done
20:16:08 <ais523> sh: syntax error: ";" unexpected
20:16:11 <ais523> that's busybox sh
20:16:55 <fizzie> Based on a very cursory glance of the bash(1) man page "shell grammar" section, I can't really construct a "null command"y thing.
20:17:00 <ais523> $ while true; do :; done
20:17:06 <ehird> : is not a nop
20:17:07 <ais523> : is the no-op command
20:17:11 <ais523> well, it's true
20:17:11 <ehird> it sets $?
20:17:21 <ais523> I'd say all commands set $?
20:17:27 <ais523> so it's correct for a nop to, too
20:17:39 <ais523> that's like complaining that NOP in asm isn't a nop because it changes the IP
20:17:42 <ehird> a nop is an uncommand!
20:17:59 <ais523> there are actually two sorts of nop
20:18:07 <ais523> which is something I'm thinking about a lot in Underlambda?
20:18:12 <ais523> what's more noppish; true, or cat?
20:18:23 <ais523> s/;/:/
20:18:32 <fizzie> : is described as "No effect; the command does nothing beyond expanding arguments and performing any specified redirections.  A zero exit code is returned." so I guess it's a reasonably noppy thing.
20:18:36 <ehird> 20:18 ais523: which is something I'm thinking about a lot in Underlambda?
20:18:37 <ehird> okay?
20:18:49 <fizzie> Okay, next time I need a do-nothing loop I'll certainly use :.
20:18:54 <ehird> ais523: in a pipeline, nop is cat
20:18:58 <ais523> yes
20:18:59 <ehird> ais523: in a sequence of commands, nop is... nothing
20:19:02 <ais523> whereas true would destroy data
20:19:02 <ehird> since
20:19:05 <ehird> foo; if [ $?
20:19:05 <ehird> vs
20:19:07 <ehird> foo; :; if [ $?
20:19:18 <ais523> it's the difference between 0 and 1 in Underlambda
20:19:19 <ehird> so, the only thing you can REALLY call a nop in shell is the pipeline nop - cat
20:19:24 <ais523> 0 is !()
20:19:27 <ais523> as in, it destroys data
20:19:29 <ehird> cat :: String -> String; cat = id
20:19:30 <ais523> 1 is the null string
20:19:31 <ehird> ↑ shellskle
20:19:35 <ais523> because it leaves everything the same
20:19:36 <ehird> (|>) = flip (.)
20:20:21 <ehird> cat = id
20:20:22 <ehird> tac = unlines . reverse . lines
20:20:40 <ehird> yay, x11 installed
20:22:13 <ehird> sudo port install maxima
20:22:16 <ehird> :)
20:22:18 -!- jix has quit (No route to host).
20:23:44 -!- asiekierka has quit.
20:25:00 <ais523> ehird: why wasn't x11 installed before?
20:25:05 <ais523> new computer?
20:25:07 <ehird> os x
20:25:15 <ais523> I thought you'd installed it earlier, though
20:25:16 <ehird> and I removed the x11 i had
20:25:18 <ais523> ah
20:25:21 <ehird> 'cuz dependency issues
20:25:25 <ehird> so i installed it via macports
20:26:04 <ehird> ... and I possibly don't even need x11 for this
20:26:05 <ehird> ha.
20:26:27 * ehird installs gnuplot +no_x11 +wxwidgets; installs tk +quartz; installs maxima
20:26:36 <ehird> which will also install sbcl, despite me having my own sbcl
20:27:00 <GregorR-L> How sbecial for you.
20:27:27 <ehird> groan
20:27:43 <bsmntbombdood> maxima doesn't need x
20:28:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: it depends on gnuplot and tk
20:28:24 <ehird> for the UI, I assume; it may not be mandatory, but I want it.
20:29:47 <bsmntbombdood> maxima has a cli
20:30:07 <ehird> Yes.
20:30:09 <ehird> I know.
20:30:15 <ehird> But I want plots and shit too, mmkay?
20:30:45 -!- kar8nga has joined.
20:33:49 <bsmntbombdood> need moar bandwidth
20:34:15 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 56k?
20:34:23 <bsmntbombdood> almost
20:34:32 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: why did you buy an expensive i7 pc
20:34:59 <bsmntbombdood> ...??
20:35:09 <GregorR-L> I plug my CPU directly into the intarwebs.
20:35:30 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: tiny monitor ... shitty internet... :P
20:35:45 <bsmntbombdood> i'm confused at where you see the connection
20:35:55 <ehird> it just seems a bit ridiculous
20:37:42 <GregorR-L> bsmntbombdood uses it to calculate the trajectory of micromissiles to kill anyone who makes fun of his monitor and/or internet connection.
20:37:53 <bsmntbombdood> exactly
20:38:12 <ehird> Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
20:40:18 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: I strongly suggest that you invest in bandwidth and a better monitor.
20:40:35 <bsmntbombdood> i will probably get a better monitor, the bandwidth is more difficult though
20:40:47 <pikhq> The best investment for the former, of course, is moving to Japan, but moving to any first-world nation other than the US is also a viable option.
20:40:48 <bsmntbombdood> i live where the options are limited
20:40:54 <GregorR-L> bsmntbombdood's options are limited after he bombed Comcast's basement.
20:41:19 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Dude, you didn't ask anyone to help you bomb Comcast?
20:41:24 <pikhq> How very selfish of you!
20:41:27 <pikhq> ;)
20:41:36 <GregorR-L> (Just their basement)
20:41:45 <bsmntbombdood> bsmntbombdood works alone
20:41:59 <ehird> pikhq: sth korea has better bandwidth iirc
20:42:07 <ehird> well speed
20:42:41 <pikhq> Japan has 100 Mbps for $20 a month.
20:42:42 <bsmntbombdood> japan and south korea are both places where i do not want to go
20:43:16 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Might I suggest somewhere more... Euro?
20:43:33 <bsmntbombdood> the nordic countries sound nice
20:43:43 <pikhq> Indeed, they do.
20:43:47 <ehird> avoid sweden, anmaster's there
20:44:05 <pikhq> Norway's got Oerjan, though.
20:44:08 <ehird> Yes.
20:44:13 <ehird> Go for Norway or Finland.
20:44:23 <GregorR-L> Such as Moldova, or Ukraine.
20:44:25 <ehird> Finland are more net-wise, iirc, and they invented IRC, and fizzie & oklopol & Deewiant
20:44:27 <ehird> & other people.
20:44:32 <fizzie> Finland has (110 Mbps down, 5 Mbps up) for $73.99/month (blame the $ exchange rate) if you don't mind the cable-modem technologistics.
20:44:38 <ehird> Norway has fjords and oerjan.
20:44:38 <fizzie> Yes, the Finns invented fizzie.
20:44:49 <ehird> fizzie: What, all of them
20:44:49 <ehird> ?
20:44:53 <ehird> That's some orgy
20:45:11 <bsmntbombdood> i would pay $73.99 for 110 Mbps in a heartbeat
20:45:11 <GregorR-L> ehird: That's just how Finns breed.
20:45:14 <bsmntbombdood> the 5 up sucks though
20:45:17 <AnMaster> Sweden has nice Internet unless you are far out in the country.
20:45:24 <AnMaster> country side*
20:45:25 <pikhq> fizzie: Where I'm at, I can get 1 Mbps down, 256k up for $69.99 a month.
20:45:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 5 up isn't all that bad...
20:45:29 <AnMaster> s/in/on/
20:45:44 <ehird> unfortunately we can't get cable here
20:45:54 <ehird> moving to finland sounds nice
20:46:00 <fizzie> With careful picking of where to live, I guess you can get reasonable prices for "100 Mbps both ways" here too; but it's not very widely available yet.
20:46:03 <AnMaster> um
20:46:04 <AnMaster> the language
20:46:15 <pikhq> fizzie: 100 Mbps *both ways*?
20:46:19 <ehird> pikhq: Uphill!
20:46:25 <ehird> And downhill. Uh, both ways.
20:46:26 <fizzie> Uphill both ways, yes.
20:46:31 <AnMaster> haha
20:46:35 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:46:46 <pikhq> Dammit, why must *all* of your infrastructure be better than ours?
20:46:59 <Sgeo> hm?
20:47:04 <ehird> fizzie: how cold is finland?
20:47:47 <pikhq> Sgeo: US. Dealing with infrastructure that was last touched when my grandmother was a child.
20:48:04 <ehird> Internet-over-phone is ridiculously stupid.
20:48:29 <Sgeo> I know at least one person still on dialup :/
20:48:31 <ehird> fizzie: so yeah, coldity?
20:48:34 <Sgeo> Well, not in person
20:48:38 <fizzie> I guess fibre/ethernet-based 100MBps-up-and-down is still only in some random places, though. Personally I'm paying something like $70/month for puny 24 Mbps down, 1 Mbps up. (I happened to pick an expensive ISP, since they do the whole static-IP, custom-reverse-DNS, native-IPv6, tech-support-that-knows-what-they're-doing thing.)
20:48:55 <fizzie> ehird: It's about +10 degrees celsius here now.
20:49:01 <pikhq> I want phone-over-Internet, TV-over-Internet, etc.-over-Internet.
20:49:01 <AnMaster> a dictionary of dictionaries of sets. Is it time to try to work out a better data representation yet?
20:49:06 <pikhq> fizzie: 24 Mbps? Puny?
20:49:07 <ehird> fizzie: what isp was that again?
20:49:13 <GregorR-L> The US got the infrastructure early, so as a result it has the oldest infrastructure. It's really quite simple.
20:49:16 <ehird> pikhq: eh, you can get that in London
20:49:17 <pikhq> That's absurdly good for the US.
20:49:29 <AnMaster> pikhq, NEWS NEWS
20:49:34 <AnMaster> pikhq, Finland != US
20:49:39 <ehird> AnMaster: ... and?
20:49:44 <ehird> He was commenting on "puny'.
20:49:44 <AnMaster> <pikhq> That's absurdly good for the US.
20:49:45 <AnMaster> well
20:49:46 <ehird> *"
20:49:49 <AnMaster> that is because it isn't the US!
20:49:50 <ehird> Don't make yourself look like a jackass...
20:49:50 <fizzie> ehird: Nebula; nbl.fi or something. Here in the southernmost points it's rather rarely below -10 degrees in the winter, though occasionally it happens.
20:50:01 <ehird> lol -10 degrees
20:50:09 <pikhq> AnMaster: ... And I've been talking about how the US has crappy infrastructure.
20:50:11 <ehird> fizzie: going out in anything below 10 degrees makes me feel like death
20:50:18 <AnMaster> mhm
20:50:28 <ehird> hmm
20:50:29 <AnMaster> ehird, you need thicker clothes then
20:50:30 <ehird> ok, maybe not
20:50:30 <pikhq> By "crappy", I mean "Ethiopia is set to surpass us in 10 years."
20:50:36 <ehird> it's 9 centigrade today apparently
20:50:36 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot").
20:50:40 <ehird> and I can handle that just fine
20:50:48 <fizzie> This year we had sub-zero temperatures at night-time as recently as... some two-and-a-half weeks ago?
20:50:49 <ehird> so -10 i could probably manage at worst.
20:50:57 <ehird> night-time doesn't bother me
20:51:12 <AnMaster> fizzie, about same here iirc
20:51:13 <ehird> fizzie: do you think these uphill-both-ways isp do the ipv6 stuffs too?
20:51:24 <ehird> i mean, it's not like moving to finland is possible or feasible, but IN MY MIND it could be
20:51:29 <ehird> i could move my mind to finland
20:51:32 <ehird> and keep my body here
20:51:48 <AnMaster> ehird, remember you will have to learn Finnish when moving there!
20:51:52 <pikhq> I could learn Finnish.
20:52:03 <AnMaster> it looks awfully complex.
20:52:07 <GregorR-L> ehird: Unfortunately, the mind-Finland uplink is over 56k.
20:52:11 <ehird> AnMaster: I've tried learning languages before and failing, but I could probably get by to start with using basic vernacular...
20:52:18 <oerjan> pikhq: i recall reading that somalia has pretty kickass cell phone network
20:52:18 <ehird> GregorR-L: AIEEEEEEEEEEEE
20:52:23 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, the what
20:52:37 <AnMaster> oh
20:52:42 <oerjan> because there was no state to regulate it
20:52:44 <fizzie> ehird: I don't think they do. I'm not quite sure where they are available, to be honest. Can't find any availability maps.
20:52:46 <pikhq> We're speaking one of the most commonly spoken languages right now. :)
20:53:06 <pikhq> oerjan: That's the first time I've heard of a lack of regulation creating competition.
20:53:07 <AnMaster> pikhq, English yes.
20:53:07 <ehird> fizzie: hmm... what about the 100mbps both ways, it'd be supernice to have fast internet + ipv6 + reverse dns
20:53:18 <pikhq> Most *complex*.
20:53:25 * pikhq has been dropping words lately today. :(
20:53:29 -!- tombom has joined.
20:53:40 <fizzie> ehird: Well, the student housing at our university has that. :p
20:53:52 <ehird> fizzie: that's a rather unhelpful option :P
20:53:55 <ehird> err
20:53:57 <ehird> what about the 100mbps one way
20:53:59 <pikhq> fizzie: ... Your university gets 100mbps?
20:54:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, I'm not sure that is true actually.
20:54:03 <ehird> is what i meant to say lately
20:54:12 <pikhq> I don't think mine has that on our *LAN*.
20:54:14 <ehird> (i don't really talk much outside anyway, so finnish probably wouldn't be a problem for a good amount of time)
20:54:18 <AnMaster> pikhq, French is harder, trust me. I took French in school some years ago.
20:54:21 <fizzie> pikhq: Yes, well... I think it's a shared 1 Gbps uplink to the interwebs, though.
20:54:29 <AnMaster> forgot most of it by now
20:54:39 <ehird> french is hard?
20:54:41 <fizzie> pikhq: Or maybe they updated that to 10 Gbps already. I'm not quite sure.
20:54:59 * pikhq is jealous either way
20:55:04 <AnMaster> ehird, all those verb forms.
20:55:22 <AnMaster> sure English has that too, but not to the same degree.
20:55:44 <ehird> lol— someone said that a password-removing thingy for linux/windows didn't work on OS X
20:55:49 <ehird> Power button Command-S 'nuff said.
20:55:53 <fizzie> pikhq: Yes, the student housing network people upgraded the main Funet (Finnish university network thing, through which their internet goes) link to 10-gigabit-Ethernet on April 2nd.
20:55:55 <AnMaster> and except for "be", a simple rule for I/you/he/she/it/we/you/they
20:55:56 -!- MizardX has joined.
20:55:59 <ehird> EFI-level backdoors FTW...
20:56:19 <AnMaster> ehird, command-S?
20:56:23 <AnMaster> what does that one do
20:56:28 <AnMaster> oh
20:56:29 <ehird> AnMaster: boots into single-user mode
20:56:32 <AnMaster> right
20:56:34 <AnMaster> that one
20:56:38 <AnMaster> ehird, you can set EFI password
20:56:40 <AnMaster> iirc
20:56:51 <ehird> AnMaster: yeaah but i doubt this retard has
20:56:55 <AnMaster> that is needed for all non-normal boots
20:57:01 <ehird> AnMaster: you can encrypt your HD too
20:57:01 <fizzie> ehird: Oh, and the 110Mbps-down-5Mbps-up cable-TV-company/ISP is Welho, which is rather in the clueless group of ISPs, so I really don't think they do any IPv6 stuff or anything.
20:57:08 <ehird> so there's easy ways to prevent it; just not common ones
20:57:21 <ehird> fizzie: shit sucks.
20:57:24 <AnMaster> ehird, you can under OS X?
20:57:26 <AnMaster> kay
20:57:33 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, it comes with truecrypt built in
20:57:35 <ehird> and a UI to use it
20:57:43 <pikhq> fizzie: Most cities in the US are doing well to get 5Mbps down.
20:57:44 <fizzie> Most of the ISPs here have some silly "you are forbidden to run any server applications in your pipe" things in their contracts, and the general level of service for home customers seems to be "you get 5 IPs over DHCP and that's it".
20:57:47 <AnMaster> ehird, 10.4 too?
20:57:57 <AnMaster> I remember seeing some "encrypt home dir"
20:57:58 <ehird> AnMaster: yes. Although, caution in that truecrypt, while open source, is shady.
20:58:03 <pikhq> We've got monopolies everywhere.
20:58:03 <pikhq> Glee.
20:58:04 <AnMaster> but no full encryption
20:58:09 <AnMaster> ehird, and I know
20:58:09 <ehird> The mods delete questions about the changelogs etc on their forums
20:58:13 <ehird> and they just release source tarball
20:58:14 <ehird> s
20:58:15 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah
20:58:17 <ehird> but, it has it built in.
20:58:31 <pikhq> Well, except for dialup providers. Those still compete with each other.
20:58:33 <AnMaster> ehird, does it let you encrypt the system dir :D
20:58:35 <fizzie> pikhq: I think the 24 Mbps down (well, theoretical; I get ~19 Mbps here) ADSL2+ thing is pretty widely available here, though personally I only know about the situation around the capital city here.
20:58:38 <ehird> I think so, AnMaster.
20:58:45 <AnMaster> ehird, how do you boot then
20:58:55 <ehird> AnMaster: Well, presumably it'd leave the bootloader unencrypted.
20:58:58 <AnMaster> ehird, and have you ordered that linux PC yet btw :)
20:59:02 <ehird> and no, not yet
20:59:07 <AnMaster> kay
20:59:09 <ehird> I need to assemble a bag of parts, make sure the psu is fine, etc
20:59:13 <ehird> so it'll be a lil bit
20:59:20 <pikhq> fizzie: And you guys even get actual bandwidth close to what's advertised?
20:59:26 <pikhq> That's even more impressive.
20:59:32 <AnMaster> ehird, and your befunge interpreter, how is it coming along :)
20:59:40 <ehird> AnMaster: I think I will stab you with a stick.
20:59:52 <AnMaster> why
20:59:56 <pikhq> I expect next you'll be telling me that your cable service doesn't recompress HD streams to the point that they're unwatchable?
21:00:01 <ehird> For asking that :)
21:00:25 <ehird> pikhq: let's move to Finland; we can pool our resources to pay for residence and kick-ass internet
21:00:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, um, Why do you use cable instead of your own antenna.
21:00:52 <ehird> AnMaster: ...
21:00:53 <pikhq> ehird: We'll probably be better able to pay for university, too.
21:00:55 <ehird> .......
21:00:59 <Deewiant> pikhq: I measured my connection last weekend and it indeed managed something like 107/4.8 Mib/s
21:01:00 <AnMaster> ehird, yes?
21:01:01 <ehird> AnMaster: Do you... are you...
21:01:05 <ehird> Do you even know what...
21:01:07 <pikhq> AnMaster: Because that gets us 2 stations.
21:01:09 <ehird> Good god.
21:01:11 <AnMaster> ehird, free standing house.
21:01:11 <ehird> You're an idiot.
21:01:19 <AnMaster> ehird, no cable network
21:01:20 <ehird> AnMaster: cable channels are not the same as analogue channels
21:01:29 <ehird> also, analogue is terrible quality
21:01:37 <AnMaster> ehird, there are no analogue channels in Sweden. They are digital, over antenna
21:01:41 <AnMaster> yes strange, but a fact
21:01:50 <ehird> err. what
21:01:56 <AnMaster> some kind of political motivation for switching to that.
21:02:02 <pikhq> ehird: Nearly 3/4ths of our analog broadcasters were shut down.
21:02:10 <AnMaster> happened in 2007 iirc
21:02:11 <ehird> pikhq: there are only 5 analogue channels in the uk
21:02:12 <pikhq> As of June, all OTA signals in the US will be digital.
21:02:27 <ehird> and digital = non-antenna in the UK
21:02:34 <ehird> I don't know about this digital-antenna shit but we have none of it
21:02:37 <pikhq> Oh, the UK. The *other* country with third-world infrastructure.
21:02:43 <AnMaster> ehird, why do you call it "shit"
21:02:56 <pikhq> Though I thought you guys had nearly 75% coverage with Freeview?
21:02:57 <ehird> AnMaster: shit does not mean rubbish
21:02:58 <ehird> it means "stuff"
21:03:03 <ehird> unless it means rubbish
21:03:05 <ehird> in which case it means rubbish
21:03:11 <ehird> understand me?
21:03:11 <AnMaster> ehird, or excrement
21:03:19 <AnMaster> that is the literal meaning
21:03:22 <AnMaster> :P
21:03:32 <pikhq> ehird: At least you've got OTA stations worth watching.
21:03:33 <ehird> pikhq: Yes, and "freesat from sky", which has a marginally better channel choice, so we use it. We also have Sky, but $$$ and the channels are shit.
21:03:36 <ehird> Also bbc's HD freesat.
21:03:44 <ehird> pikhq: you sure about that?
21:03:48 <AnMaster> ehird, but no I can't say I'm able to detect the difference between shit::stuff() and shit::rubbish()
21:03:50 <ehird> channel 4 and some stuff on five, maybe
21:03:54 <ehird> and a few bbc documentaries
21:03:59 <pikhq> Which is more than we have.
21:04:00 <ehird> but most of BBC 1 stuff, and all of ITV, is rubbish
21:04:02 <AnMaster> err, sorry, wrong type description language
21:04:08 <pikhq> You know the channels you get on Sky?
21:04:12 <pikhq> ... Yeah...
21:04:21 <pikhq> That's US television.
21:04:30 <ehird> Yeah, I know.
21:04:35 <ehird> It's pretty awful.
21:04:41 <ehird> US culture sucks.
21:04:49 <ehird> % maxima
21:04:49 <ehird> fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 88478(tid 2685568800):
21:04:50 <ehird> bad runtime option "--userinit"
21:04:52 <ehird> Sweet.
21:05:04 <pikhq> US culture is pretty nice. When you remove the corporations from it.
21:05:17 <pikhq> ... That is, when you remove the last 50 to 100 years of it. :p
21:06:12 <ehird> opt/local/bin
21:06:13 <ehird> er
21:06:14 <ehird> % maxima
21:06:16 <ehird> Maxima 5.18.1 http://maxima.sourceforge.net
21:06:18 <ehird> Using Lisp SBCL 1.0.28
21:06:19 <GregorR-L> Forbleborble McWarbleblorble
21:06:20 <ehird> Distributed under the GNU Public License. See the file COPYING.
21:06:22 <ehird> Dedicated to the memory of William Schelter.
21:06:24 <ehird> The function bug_report() provides bug reporting information.
21:06:26 <ehird> (%i1)
21:06:28 <ehird> yay
21:07:17 <ehird> YAY xmaxima starts
21:07:42 <ehird> Terribly ugly, but!
21:08:17 <ehird> PLOT NO WORKY.
21:09:27 <fizzie> Deewiant: It's that Welho 110/5?
21:09:35 <Deewiant> Aye.
21:09:40 <ehird> Oh!
21:09:43 <ehird> There's a wxmaxima.
21:09:50 <ehird> err
21:09:53 <ehird> Deewiant: context?
21:10:21 <Deewiant> ehird: 10 minutes up.
21:10:32 <fizzie> ehird: <Deewiant> pikhq: I measured my connection last weekend and it indeed managed something like 107/4.8 Mib/s
21:10:34 <ehird> Ah.
21:10:47 <ehird> Deewiant: Do they do ipv6?
21:10:56 <Deewiant> Don't know, doubtful.
21:10:58 <ehird> How useless.
21:11:05 <Deewiant> I'm not on that connection now so I can't test.
21:11:40 <Deewiant> Most Finnish ISPs probably don't, only Nebula or whatever it was that fizzie hyped.
21:11:54 <GregorR-L> In 2012 they will :P
21:12:11 <ehird> Deewiant: But Nebula doesn't do the fast!
21:12:18 <ehird> Finns are internetty people :<
21:12:39 <pikhq> In 2012, the US will still have people with 56k modems.
21:12:47 <pikhq> ... As their only option.
21:12:58 <GregorR-L> And even they will be on IPv6 :P
21:13:14 <pikhq> I don't think you understand how US infrastructure works.
21:13:17 <AnMaster> <ehird> There's a wxmaxima. <-- yes I use it personally
21:13:23 <AnMaster> eer
21:13:26 <AnMaster> word order
21:13:26 <pikhq> The US will be the last holdout on IPv4.
21:13:30 <GregorR-L> pikhq: I'm being a happy optimist :P
21:13:36 <pikhq> I expect us to upgrade sometime after World War III.
21:13:38 <ehird> AnMaster: how do you get just a simple maxima console with it?
21:13:41 <ehird> where you can plot and stuff
21:13:52 <AnMaster> ehird, um what do you mean.
21:13:57 <ehird> AnMaster: just a regular maxima REPL
21:13:58 <fizzie> Nebula's fastest one with a price that's not "ask us" is 48M/6M, which is basically two bonded ADSL2+ channels; and that's horribly expensive, $200/month or so.
21:13:58 <ehird> like maxima(1)
21:14:06 <pikhq> ... Speaking of. Anyone want to play global thermonuclear war?
21:14:10 <ehird> fizzie: what would ask us imply
21:14:11 <AnMaster> ehird, that is what you get in the main text box of wxmaxima?
21:14:15 <AnMaster> with the input line below
21:14:18 <ehird> AnMaster: oh, "Maxima process terminated."
21:14:26 <ehird> guess i have to done configure shit
21:14:36 <AnMaster> ehird, that sounds like what is technically called "a bug"
21:14:38 <fizzie> ehird: Probably at least more than that.
21:14:38 <AnMaster> or that
21:14:45 <AnMaster> ehird, it worked out of box for me on Gentoo :D
21:14:55 <ehird> fizzie: but also $$$
21:15:07 <ehird> AnMaster: seems my maxima install isn't workin'
21:15:11 <ehird> for it
21:15:19 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe path is wrong
21:15:24 <ehird> "Maxima program: /opt/local/bin/maxima"
21:15:28 <AnMaster> and I don't know, since it just worked out of box here
21:15:39 <ehird> aha
21:15:40 <fizzie> ehird: There's on their product list "SHDSL/EFM 2-100M" (and I think that technology implies the same speed both ways, so you could get 100M/100M) but it's probably a really large pile of $s for that.
21:15:43 <AnMaster> ehird, what
21:15:48 <ehird> add "-s 4010" to additional parameters
21:15:54 <ehird> fizzie: yeah
21:15:59 <AnMaster> ehird, what does that do
21:16:07 <ehird> connect maxima to server on port N
21:16:13 <ehird> and 4010 was in the prefs as wxmaxima's port
21:16:13 <ehird> sooo
21:16:23 <AnMaster> heh
21:16:29 <ehird> Maxima encountered a Lisp error:
21:16:29 <ehird>  The function SETUP-SERVER is undefined.
21:16:30 <ehird> cancel that
21:16:31 <AnMaster> ehird, there are no extra parameters here
21:18:16 <AnMaster> ehird, wxmaxima preferences screenshot, in case it helps: http://omploader.org/vMW95dA
21:18:29 <ehird> ew, you're using clisp
21:18:38 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah sbcl had issues for me.
21:18:57 <ehird> ah, hm
21:18:59 <AnMaster> ehird, specifically, it doesn't work if you turn off overcommitting memory.
21:19:01 <ehird> after setup-server failing it works
21:19:06 <ehird> AnMaster: duh
21:19:10 <ehird> it's its whole memory model
21:19:12 <ehird> so don't turn that off
21:19:22 <AnMaster> ehird, um. I consider the program that needs it buggy
21:19:29 <ehird> no, it's by design
21:19:33 <ehird> it reserves a pool of memory
21:19:46 <AnMaster> ehird, yes. But 8 GB?
21:19:58 <ehird> what's wrong with overcommits
21:20:38 <AnMaster> ehird, the fact that the OOM killer can kill any process. Not just the offending one (which isn't trivial to figure out either)
21:20:48 <ehird> Disable the OOM killer, then.
21:21:13 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, that is what I did, when you disable it, you disable memory overcommit
21:21:19 <ehird> really?
21:21:21 <ehird> weird-ass.
21:21:44 <AnMaster> ehird, how would you handle out of memory when overcommit is in use, without an OOM killer
21:21:48 <AnMaster> would like to know how
21:22:08 <ehird> AnMaster: you can refuse to allocate
21:22:12 <ehird> if you run out of real memory
21:22:22 <AnMaster> ehird, um, you already did when you overcommited.
21:22:29 <ehird> no
21:22:32 <ehird> you ran out of virtual memory
21:23:14 <AnMaster> ehird, well I have 1.5 GB RAM. So It would refuse to allocate that 8 GB block in either case.
21:23:28 <ehird> no
21:23:30 <AnMaster> according to your logic
21:23:33 <ehird> it wouldn't
21:23:36 <AnMaster> ehird, then what exactly do you mean
21:23:40 <ehird> you have 1.5GB of PHYSICAL ram
21:23:42 <AnMaster> yes
21:23:44 <ehird> you only refuse to allocate when you run out of i
21:23:45 <ehird> t
21:23:46 <AnMaster> and 1.5 GB swap
21:23:57 <ehird> AnMaster: the 8GB would fail if and only if you were out of physical memory
21:24:13 <AnMaster> ehird, that is what overcommit is. But it doesn't solve the issue.
21:24:24 <AnMaster> Since you could allocate those 8 GB and then start filling it!
21:24:25 <ehird> what issue? it's overcommit without OOM killer
21:24:47 <AnMaster> what would happen when it loaded data in more than 1.5 GB + 1.5 GB of swap
21:24:52 <AnMaster> I'd like to know that
21:24:59 <ehird> it'd not work.
21:25:04 <AnMaster> ehird, how would it fail
21:25:09 <ehird> segfault?
21:26:01 <AnMaster> ehird, But what if the app filled all but one page of that. And then syslog came along and wanted two extra pages (it also pre-allocated that).
21:26:08 <AnMaster> nice, syslog just segfaulted.
21:26:23 <AnMaster> ehird, sure this is such a good idea?
21:26:25 <ehird> AnMaster: you're out of memory.
21:26:27 <ehird> shit happens.
21:26:36 <ehird> you can't expect everything to go swimmingly when you're out of memory
21:26:41 <AnMaster> ehird, that is why you disable memory overcommit
21:26:47 <ehird> ...
21:26:49 <AnMaster> so apps can handle it gracefully.
21:26:53 <ehird> ahahah
21:27:02 <AnMaster> or at least log an error and exit
21:27:06 <ehird> evidently you're not listening to me, so I won't bother
21:27:18 <AnMaster> ehird, evidently you're not listening to me either.
21:27:31 <AnMaster> ehird, and, OOM killer is exactly what you suggested above
21:27:39 <ehird> ooh awesome, you have to use "wxplot2d" instead of "plot2d".
21:27:47 <ehird> not.
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21:28:04 <AnMaster> ehird, it SIGSEGVs (or SIGKILLs forgot which) the process that tries to use more than the RAM around.
21:28:12 <AnMaster> ehird, so you just reinvented the OOM killer
21:28:16 <AnMaster> CONGRAts
21:28:20 <AnMaster> CONGRATS*
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21:28:48 <AnMaster> ehird, got a suggestion NOT involving the OOM killer.
21:28:49 <ais523> actually, the OOM killer uses a different algorithm to "the first process to request memory"
21:29:04 <AnMaster> ais523, right, it used to use that algo before though iirc.
21:29:23 <AnMaster> iirc nowdays it tries to find memory offender and avoid init
21:29:27 <AnMaster> or something like that
21:30:08 <ais523> going for today, anyway; bye everyone!
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21:39:32 <fizzie> Current OOM killer chooses the "worst" process, worst being defined as the one which gets most points from the badness() function; that's mostly based on the total memory size of the process, plus half the vmsize of its children (to kill memory-hungry forking servers), and tweaks (points /= sqrt(cpu_time), points /= sqrt(sqrt(run_time)), *2 for niced processes because they're unimportant, /4 for SYS_ADMIN/SYS_RESOURCE/SYS_RAWIO processes, ...)
21:40:27 <Deewiant> Very arbitrary
21:40:33 <ehird> brb
21:41:10 <fizzie> Deewiant: There's some sort of justification for most things, but for the time-based ones... "CPU time is in tens of seconds and run time is in thousands of seconds. There is no particular reason for this other than that it turned out to work very well in practice."
21:41:27 <Deewiant> Heh.
21:42:01 <Deewiant> But in general, that. sqrt one and sqrt-sqrt the other, *2 for something, /4 for something else...
21:42:13 <fizzie> The "half of children" is there so that it kills servers with memory-hungry children, but (since it's only half) it kills a particular child if it's only that child that's eating most of the memory.
21:42:17 <Deewiant> The justification is, of course, that it works well.
21:42:26 <Deewiant> But I still don't like that kind of arbitrary stuff. :-/
21:42:39 <fizzie> Yes, the actual amount of the adjustment is pretty arbitrary.
21:43:17 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
21:43:28 <fizzie> (It's actually first /4 for cap_sys_admin/cap_sys_resource processes, and then a further /4 for cap_sys_rawio, so I guess some processes could get /16 out of that.)
21:43:51 <fizzie> Too bad top can't show the badness values; I'd actually like to know what it would kill first here.
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21:44:51 -!- tombom_ has changed nick to tombom.
21:45:55 <fizzie> (Okay, with 783/3951MB memory use it's not likely to kill anything, but still.)
21:45:56 <bsmntbombdood> the oom killer is the best solution i think
21:46:03 <bsmntbombdood> disable overcommit isn't smart
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21:58:13 <AnMaster> fizzie, you can see it in /proc/pid/oom_* iirc
21:58:18 <AnMaster> and adjust a bias too
21:58:18 <AnMaster> there
21:58:26 <AnMaster> to make it less likely to kill some specific process
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22:01:34 <fizzie> Oh, right, there's the oom_score. I did notice the oom_adj tweak though.
22:03:17 <Sgeo> I AM GOING TO BRUTALLY MURDER PAYPAL
22:03:32 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:03:33 <fizzie> Heh.This is a bit... suspicious. The process most likely to be killed is "vi oom_kill.c". Protecting itself, is it?
22:06:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:06:49 <oerjan> whatever you do, don't try to shut it off
22:07:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
22:08:10 <Sgeo> Any help here?
22:08:22 <Sgeo> Oh, I forgot to say what I need help with
22:08:23 <Sgeo> Does anyone know how to force paypal to let me pay with the money that I have in there already, without connecting it to RL financials?
22:09:42 <bsmntbombdood> hehe
22:09:45 <bsmntbombdood> tmpfs is awesome
22:09:47 <fizzie> "for pid in [0-9]*; do echo `cat $pid/oom_score`: `cat $pid/cmdline | tr '\0' ' '`; done | sort -n | tail" seems to be a useful oom-score viewer.
22:10:06 <bsmntbombdood> oh cool
22:10:06 <Deewiant> Oh, those are NULs
22:10:13 <bsmntbombdood> /proc is awesome
22:10:20 <Deewiant> I was trying to do that and wondering why my output was all b0rken
22:10:57 <Deewiant> 1153943: C:\windows\system32\services.exe
22:11:03 <Deewiant> No surprises there :-P
22:11:21 <fizzie> Currently it seems to want to kill a un-offending "vi" that has some random notes in it, and "urxvtd" (which would kill all my terminal windows) is second. Third is PostgreSQL.
22:11:34 <Deewiant> After that is my WM
22:11:36 <fizzie> Would've though Firefox to be a candidate, too, but I guess it's been running for quite a while.
22:11:39 <Deewiant> Then Thunderbird
22:12:02 <Deewiant> Then more Wine-stuff, then init.
22:12:09 -!- Judofyr has joined.
22:13:26 <fizzie> 1153943 is quite a score; my winner just gets 19574.
22:13:43 <bsmntbombdood> that's odd, ion is the worst
22:13:55 <Deewiant> That little?
22:14:03 <Deewiant> With 'tail' my lowest is 45405
22:14:27 <Deewiant> init is 93933
22:14:29 <fizzie> I have values 9807-19574 in the... "top-10", or "bottom-10", or anything.
22:14:39 <fizzie> Init gets 15644 here, #4.
22:14:49 <Deewiant> Openbox, the current #2, is 593089
22:14:58 <fizzie> Your numbers are bigger.
22:15:18 <fizzie> Wouldn't think you have *that* much more memory (or bigger processes), though; 4G here.
22:15:38 <Deewiant> I have a bunch of zeroes with empty command lines, /sbin/udevd is the lowest 'real' process at 0
22:16:02 <Deewiant> I've got 8G of memory, init's virtual size is 3784 (K, I guess)
22:16:20 <fizzie> Those empty ones are the kernel threads, I guess.
22:16:25 <Deewiant> Maybe your uptime is just so huge?
22:16:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:16:25 <pikhq> What, and you don't have gettys?
22:16:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
22:16:49 <Deewiant> agettys have a score of 29
22:16:58 <pikhq> Ah.
22:17:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:17:13 <Deewiant> mount.ntfs-3g has 17, being the second-lowest process with a cmdline
22:17:14 <fizzie> If you replace the $pid/cmdline cat with "ps hp $pid" you get their names too, but that's not exactly interesting since the scores are 0.
22:17:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
22:17:46 <fizzie> My lowest-scoring ones are at score 14: five gettys, klogd and acpid.
22:18:07 <Deewiant> How's your uptime?
22:18:08 <bsmntbombdood> what's the file that has the memory size?
22:18:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
22:18:27 <Deewiant> wc -c mem? ;-P
22:18:34 <fizzie> Just 13 days...
22:18:41 <Deewiant> Well, mine is less than 13 hours
22:19:31 <pikhq> 1153026: c:\windows\system32\services.exe
22:19:36 <Deewiant> :-)
22:19:37 <pikhq> Definitely no surprises there.
22:20:12 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: huh?
22:20:36 <pikhq> WINE.
22:20:58 <Deewiant> Oo
22:21:01 <Deewiant> 1435180: /usr/bin/openbox
22:21:06 <Deewiant> That took off, for some reason
22:21:32 <pikhq> 301: -:0
22:21:35 <pikhq> The fuck?
22:21:38 <Deewiant> :-D
22:22:07 <fizzie> Heh, I opened another "vi oom_kill.c", and it jumped to #1, with a 39198 score. It's definitely some sort of self-protecting thing.
22:22:14 <Deewiant> 176: supervising syslog-ng
22:22:19 <Deewiant> Wonder what that 'supervising' is about
22:22:44 <pikhq> 4173: SCREEN
22:22:49 <fizzie> "528: -:0" too.
22:22:51 <pikhq> Why is argv[0] SCREEN?
22:23:05 <Deewiant> I don't have a -:0
22:23:35 <pikhq> 2324: /usr/bin/../lib32/../bin/wineserver
22:23:39 <pikhq> ...
22:23:53 <fizzie> Deewiant: "-:0" seems to be wdm, actually.
22:23:56 <Deewiant> fizzie: My OS is much less self-protective; it only gave 13841 to a vim oom_kill.c
22:24:05 <pikhq> bin/../lib32/../bin/
22:24:07 <pikhq> Really.
22:24:19 <Deewiant> Meanwhile, openbox is trying to show off
22:24:55 <fizzie> Well, a subprocess of wdm, anyway. It's a sibling of the actual X server, the one that's the immediate parent of the actual X session.
22:25:31 <Deewiant> /bin/login --  ->  -zsh  ->  /bin/sh /usr/bin/startx  ->  xinit
22:25:52 <Deewiant> Which would explain it, I guess.
22:26:05 <fizzie> Funny, the ones I have score=0 (udevd and sshd) also have a -17 in the oom_adj file. I guess someone's protecting them.
22:26:33 <Deewiant> Indeed, udevd has -17 here as well
22:26:34 <fizzie> "export SSHD_OOM_ADJUST=-17" in Debian's /etc/init.d/ssh script.
22:26:43 <Deewiant> sshd has no such protection and is at 405
22:27:04 <Deewiant> dhcpcd and crond are much lower, at 64 and 45 respectively
22:27:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:27:48 <fizzie> I guess they're trying to avoid the "tra-la-la, I'm remotely administering my system that's 500 miles away in a locked room... hmm, I seem to be running a bit low on memory, let's see... hey, why did it get disconnected?" case.
22:28:13 <Deewiant> That makes sense, but I can't really conceive of a case where sshd would be the one to be killed
22:28:17 <fizzie> Though Murphy's law says the frustrated OOM killer is just going to kill the shell.
22:28:52 <Deewiant> The 'sort -n' on the output of that has a higher value than firefox
22:29:02 <Deewiant> (15214 vs. 12882)
22:29:24 <fizzie> I've wondered about SCREEN uppercasing its name earlier, too. Not sure why it does that.
22:30:37 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
22:30:49 <fizzie> if (!strncmp("screen", ap, 6)) { strncpy(ap, "SCREEN", 6); /* name this process "SCREEN-BACKEND" */
22:30:56 <fizzie> That's not really a justification there.
22:31:05 <fizzie> It doesn't even name it SCREEN-BACKEND.
22:31:17 <Deewiant> strncpy(ap, "JOE", 3); /* name this process JACK */
22:31:23 <Deewiant> Indeed.
22:32:13 <fizzie> That test is done "while (ap >= av0)" and after that there's ap--;
22:32:20 <AnMaster> <fizzie> Heh.This is a bit... suspicious. The process most likely to be killed is "vi oom_kill.c". Protecting itself, is it?
22:32:21 <AnMaster> no
22:32:25 <AnMaster> there is another reason
22:32:37 <AnMaster> Linus Torvalds use µemacs
22:32:37 <ehird> 22:09 bsmntbombdood: hehe
22:32:37 <ehird> 22:09 bsmntbombdood: tmpfs is awesome
22:32:39 <ehird> why?
22:34:30 <bsmntbombdood> awesome when you have 12gb of ram
22:35:06 <AnMaster> wow, would be enough to build open office ON A RAM DISK right?
22:35:13 <AnMaster> thats... crazy
22:35:23 <bsmntbombdood> yup
22:35:23 <AnMaster> the mind boggles
22:35:53 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, would be a tight fit if you had source tree on ram disk too though
22:36:05 <AnMaster> but
22:36:06 <bsmntbombdood> openoffice sucks though
22:36:08 <AnMaster> you should do it
22:36:12 <AnMaster> to see how long it tames
22:36:13 <AnMaster> takes*
22:36:45 <ehird> AnMaster: not crazy
22:36:50 <ehird> 12GB is common for i7
22:36:57 <AnMaster> ehird, read context.
22:36:59 <Deewiant> For some values of "common"
22:37:11 <ehird> Deewiant: i7 is the uncommon thing.
22:37:13 <ehird> AnMaster: I did.
22:37:50 <AnMaster> ehird, "crazy being able to build OpenOffice on a ram disk"
22:38:11 <ehird> K
22:38:13 <Deewiant> ehird: I'd say 6 Go is more common
22:38:20 <AnMaster> 6 Go
22:38:21 <ehird> Deewiant: sure
22:38:21 <AnMaster> ...
22:38:22 <AnMaster> ?
22:38:40 <fizzie> Giga-octets.
22:38:41 <ehird> but it's more like 6GB: 55% 12GB: 45%
22:38:48 <ehird> for i7
22:38:55 <Deewiant> As Core i7 increases in popularity that ratio will shift
22:38:57 <ehird> since i7 is, well, excessive.
22:38:58 <Deewiant> If it's true at all. :-P
22:39:06 <fizzie> 87 % of statistics are all made up on the spot.
22:39:08 <AnMaster> <fizzie> Giga-octets. <-- really?
22:39:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, :D
22:39:18 <ehird> Deewiant: i7 IS for mega-super-gamer-moneywasters...
22:39:41 <AnMaster>  while(*p) p-=9;
22:39:41 <AnMaster> -p[0]=p[7];
22:39:41 <AnMaster> -p[5]+=p[0];
22:39:41 <AnMaster> -p[7]=p[0];
22:39:41 <AnMaster> -p[0]=0;
22:39:42 <Deewiant> ehird: For now, since it's the new thing.
22:39:42 <AnMaster> +p[5]+=p[7];
22:39:44 <AnMaster> yay
22:39:55 <Deewiant> ehird: Having more than one CPU core was like that a couple of years back.
22:39:59 <ehird> Deewiant: They're planning on a separate model for regular people.
22:40:05 <ehird> Core i6, iirc.
22:41:04 <fizzie> i5, I think.
22:41:14 <fizzie> I'm not quite sure where they're getting the numbers from.
22:41:17 <Deewiant> iMac?
22:41:22 <ehird> fizzie: /dev/ass
22:41:39 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i5
22:41:44 <ehird> Core i5 (codenamed Lynnfield)[1] is an upcoming family of Intel desktop x86-64 microprocessors. It is scheduled to be released in the third quarter of 2009[2] using the Intel Nehalem microarchitecture and is a mainstream variant to the Intel Core i7 family
22:41:57 <ehird> so, I predict that 6GB only being slightly more popular than 12GB for i7 will continue
22:42:05 <ehird> also typing without one finger is hard
22:43:25 <fizzie> You were in a gruesome industrial accident and lost a finger? Oh, not that? Aww. :/
22:43:43 <ehird> Yes, actually
22:43:48 <bsmntbombdood> "mainstream variant"?
22:43:52 <bsmntbombdood> more like shit variant
22:44:05 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Because everyone is excessive like you :)
22:44:08 <ehird> (and I!)
22:46:10 <fizzie> Well, "mainstream" *is* an anagram for "mate rams in".
22:46:30 <ehird> fizzie: Erm.
22:47:55 <bsmntbombdood>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
22:47:56 <bsmntbombdood> Mem:         12040       5095       6944          0        111       4362
22:47:56 <bsmntbombdood> -/+ buffers/cache:        621      11418
22:48:09 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
22:48:10 <ehird> 621MB used.
22:48:11 <ehird> Cool.
22:49:06 <bsmntbombdood> more than i had in my last computer!
22:49:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: there seems to be a tendency to overupgrade when you have obsolete hw :)
22:49:45 <AnMaster> hm
22:50:05 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, since you have so much ram, would you mind compiling something for me, which is too large for me to test. GCC OOMs here.
22:50:14 <AnMaster> a 74800 lines long C file.
22:50:21 <bsmntbombdood> loflgasm
22:50:35 <bsmntbombdood> modularity is good
22:50:59 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, current LostKing from my BF-to-(C|other backends planned) compiler
22:51:05 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, it is auto generated.
22:51:08 <ehird> AnMaster: it'd take hours
22:51:09 <bsmntbombdood> oh ok
22:51:10 <ehird> no point
22:51:11 <fizzie> Oh, I hadn't run into "slabtop" earlier. It seems to be for when you want to see how the kernel's wasting memory.
22:51:13 <AnMaster> ehird, true.
22:51:15 <bsmntbombdood> sure, why not
22:51:18 <ehird> with -O3 at least
22:51:29 <AnMaster> ehird, I'd be happy with -O0 or -O1
22:51:37 <ehird> -O0 ooms?
22:51:38 <ehird> srs?
22:51:46 <ehird> enable overcommit :P
22:51:50 <bsmntbombdood> send it over
22:52:06 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, uploading it
22:52:47 <fizzie> I could compile it on that "64GB of memory" shell server, but I guess that would be abusing it somewhat. (And I wouldn't be too surprised if they'd actually added some ulimits there.)
22:53:03 <AnMaster> fizzie, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/LostKng.b.c.gz compile with: gunzip LostKng.b.c.gz; gcc -std=c99 LostKng.b.c
22:53:05 <AnMaster> or bsmntbombdood
22:53:16 <AnMaster> fizzie, better don't
22:53:36 <fizzie> Well, the shell server is in test use right now, and they did tell us to report any problems. :p
22:53:37 <AnMaster> anyway I'm just interested in if it produces a correct program atm.
22:53:45 <AnMaster> fizzie, so don't then
22:54:04 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: what is it for?
22:54:05 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:54:05 <pikhq> AnMaster: ... You still gzip things?
22:54:07 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, If you do get a working binary: tell me how large it is
22:54:18 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: amd64 is ok then?
22:54:32 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: do -mtune=i7
22:54:33 <ehird> >:)
22:54:35 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, yeah, but not Intel specifc. -march=athlon64 here :P
22:54:36 <ehird> and also -O3
22:55:04 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: It's a generic shell server for all the university's... 10k or so students, I guess.
22:55:12 <AnMaster> actually, -march=athlon64-sse3 for me, if gcc is recent enough
22:55:14 <AnMaster> to know that arch
22:55:15 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, ^
22:55:39 <pikhq> -march=athlon64-sse3 instead of -march=athlon64 -msse3? Whoo.
22:55:48 <bsmntbombdood> nice -n 19 gcc LostKng.b.c -std=c99 -O2 -march=athlon64-sse3
22:55:50 <AnMaster> pikhq, scheduling differences iirc
22:55:54 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXnvVlNOcoM Pentium 3!
22:55:59 <bsmntbombdood> ok?
22:55:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: err
22:56:01 <pikhq> Sweet.
22:56:02 <ehird> athlon on an i7?
22:56:05 <ehird> how about neutral amd64
22:56:05 <fizzie> AnMaster:
22:56:07 <fizzie> rogue ~ 32 % gcc -o LostKng LostKng.b.c -O0
22:56:07 <fizzie> rogue ~ 33 % ls -l LostKng
22:56:07 <fizzie> -rwxr-xr-x 1 htkallas users 1698778 May 18 00:55 LostKng
22:56:11 <ehird> so you can actually run it?
22:56:15 <ehird> fizzie: wow, that was fast
22:56:26 <bsmntbombdood> what's lost king anyway?
22:56:36 <AnMaster> -march=generic -mtune=athlon64-sse3
22:56:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: brainfuck adventure game
22:56:40 <AnMaster> that would work iirc
22:56:42 <fizzie> rogue ~ 34 % ./LostKng
22:56:42 <fizzie> Lost Kingdom
22:56:42 <fizzie> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
22:56:42 <fizzie> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
22:56:46 <fizzie> It seems to mostly work.
22:56:49 <ehird> translated from BF-BASIC
22:56:52 <AnMaster> fizzie, "mostly"?
22:56:52 <AnMaster> and
22:56:54 <AnMaster> huh
22:56:56 <AnMaster> it finished?
22:56:59 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: what processor is this?
22:57:00 <AnMaster> fizzie, how large
22:57:01 <fizzie> AnMaster: Well, I mean, as far as I've tested.
22:57:08 <fizzie> AnMaster: I just pasted you the "ls -l" up there.
22:57:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, du -sh ?
22:57:20 <AnMaster> (readable)
22:57:22 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 64GB of ram
22:57:26 <ehird> so I assume several Xeons
22:57:28 <ehird> or opterons
22:57:30 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: "2 x E5450 @ 3.00GHz"
22:57:31 <AnMaster> fizzie, if it is something I can run, could you put it somewhere I can download it
22:57:41 <ehird> fizzie: nice.
22:57:48 <ehird> hmm
22:57:51 <ehird> are thos edual core?
22:57:53 <bsmntbombdood> damn, mine's still not finished
22:57:55 <ehird> they're xeon harpertowns
22:57:57 <fizzie> ehird: Quad.
22:58:00 <AnMaster> um
22:58:02 <fizzie> I think, at least.
22:58:03 <ehird> 8 cores then
22:58:06 <AnMaster> gcc is single threaded
22:58:10 <AnMaster> so it doesn't matter
22:58:13 <ehird> AnMaster: I was asking about the system.
22:58:21 <fizzie> AnMaster: I didn't give any flags, so I guess it should be quite generic.
22:58:26 <bsmntbombdood> gcc is only using 480mb here
22:58:32 <AnMaster> fizzie, can ou put it somewhere for download then!
22:58:36 * pikhq goes to recompile his entire system
22:58:44 <fizzie> AnMaster: http://users.tkk.fi/~htkallas/LostKng should work.
22:58:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, why on earth.
22:58:51 <pikhq> AnMaster: Changed CFLAGS.
22:58:53 <ehird> AnMaster: gentoo.
22:58:56 <ehird> that's what they do
22:58:57 <AnMaster> FireFly, text/plain?
22:59:06 <AnMaster> pikhq, um, and? You can recompile it as you go
22:59:06 <ehird> FireFly: swat
22:59:08 <fizzie> AnMaster: Just wget it.
22:59:14 <FireFly> 'lo there
22:59:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ELF
22:59:30 <fizzie> It didn't quite guess the content-type, since there was no extension.
22:59:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yeah, I just told what wget said
22:59:36 <AnMaster> which was quite silly
22:59:37 <fizzie> Maybe I should've gzipped it.
22:59:45 <fizzie> Runs on my Athlon X2, anyway.
22:59:49 <pikhq> Eh, I've changed a few other things than just CFLAGS.
22:59:52 <AnMaster> better guess for application/octet-stream
22:59:58 <pikhq> CFLAGS is just the straw that broke the camel's back.
23:00:00 <bsmntbombdood> oh snap, now gcc is using 2.2g
23:00:04 <AnMaster> pikhq, meh
23:00:10 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, wow!
23:00:11 <Deewiant> Why is octet-stream application/ anyway
23:00:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, good question
23:00:17 <AnMaster> btw
23:00:23 <AnMaster> what categories are there
23:00:24 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: just ^C it and "-O3 -march=i7 -mtune=i7" if you're in for the long haul
23:00:29 <Deewiant> Or xhtml+xml, etc...
23:00:35 <AnMaster> application, image, text, audio, video?
23:00:36 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: then you'll get a result you can actually use... and that is super-fast
23:00:38 <AnMaster> or are there any more
23:00:40 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: how much ram did it use for -O0?
23:00:43 <Deewiant> ehird: march implies mtune
23:00:46 <ehird> does it?
23:00:47 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i don't want to run it
23:00:47 <ehird> kay
23:00:50 <fizzie> IANA has defined application, audio, example, image, message, model, multipart, text and video.
23:00:54 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: bah :)
23:01:05 <AnMaster> ehird, and I'd like to be able to run it
23:01:14 <ehird> AnMaster: fizzie just compiled it for you.
23:01:16 <fizzie> VRML, for example, is model/vrml.
23:01:26 <pikhq> ehird: -march implies -mtune.
23:01:27 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I know
23:01:30 <AnMaster> but that was -O0
23:01:34 <AnMaster> I want to see the -O2
23:01:37 <bsmntbombdood> gcc needs a progress bar :P
23:01:40 <ehird> AnMaster: he didn't do -O2
23:01:43 <AnMaster> he did
23:01:48 <Deewiant> ehird: mtune is "do generic stuff that is faster on this arch", march is "do generic and this-arch-specific stuff that is faster on this arch"
23:01:48 <ehird> oh
23:01:49 <ehird> so he did
23:02:09 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: time -O2, i want to see how much faster than xeon is
23:02:09 <AnMaster> ehird, see also man gcc
23:02:26 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: its not current-gen xen
23:02:27 <ehird> xeon
23:02:28 <ehird> but
23:02:31 <ehird> gcc is ram-bound
23:02:33 <ehird> by and large
23:02:39 <fizzie> VRML, for example, is model/vrml.
23:02:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm
23:02:44 <ehird> Annoying thing with OS X's invert screen feature: it doesn't fix up subpixel rendering.
23:02:49 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: bigger cache, etc
23:02:50 <ehird> fizzie: VRML, for example, is model/vrml.
23:02:51 <fizzie> Waiting for the O2 now.
23:02:55 <ehird> I repeat myself. I repeat myself.
23:02:58 <AnMaster> fizzie, what about example and message?
23:03:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you got 8M of l3
23:03:22 <fizzie> AnMaster: "The 'example' media type is used for examples. Any subtype following the media type syntax may be used in those examples. No subtype can be registered with IANA."
23:03:35 <AnMaster> ehird, and 256 KB L2 right?
23:03:41 <AnMaster> ehird, and GCC is single threaded.
23:03:44 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: his xeon has 6mb of L2
23:03:48 <ehird> AnMaster: 256K L2 per core.
23:03:51 <ehird> And I know, goddamn!
23:03:56 <ehird> Stop fucking saying that!
23:03:58 <ehird> I never disputed it...
23:03:59 <AnMaster> ehird, yep, but it will only use one
23:04:03 <ehird> yes
23:04:08 <bsmntbombdood> oh, it finished
23:04:10 <fizzie> There's message/http (RFC2616), message/disposition-notification (RFC3798) and so on. http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/ is the definitive source.
23:04:13 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, nice
23:04:18 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: Well, it's not actually *my* xeon.
23:04:22 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, upload it somewhere?
23:04:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm kay
23:05:10 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: 1.2M btw
23:05:16 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, go ahead!
23:05:20 <bsmntbombdood> i am
23:05:20 <AnMaster> upload it
23:05:41 <ehird> hey bsmntbombdood, upload it
23:06:13 <fizzie> The -O2 is being slow... I'm not sure I'll bother running that for very much longer, given that there are other users for the system. Though using just one core out of eight is maybe not making them so unhappy.
23:06:24 <ehird> does clang multithread
23:06:37 <fizzie> A progress bar would be nice, though. It's taken at least four minutes now.
23:06:44 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: How long did your compilation take, anyway?
23:06:46 <AnMaster> ehird, not afaik, You can't really multi thread on a single file well.
23:06:56 <ehird> AnMaster: sure you can
23:07:01 <ehird> procedures, for instance
23:07:24 <bsmntbombdood> http://filebin.ca/cvazsv/a.out
23:07:31 <AnMaster> ehird, good compilers nowdays consider the whole file at once, to be able to do interprocedural optimisation
23:07:39 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: i forgot to time it :P
23:07:46 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, but once they get down to compiling each procedure...
23:07:50 <AnMaster> ehird, and some even considers the whole program at once. Like icc's -ipo mode
23:08:00 <AnMaster> ehird, the code generation phase you mean?
23:08:03 <AnMaster> doesn't take long
23:08:11 <AnMaster> normally that is a tiny part of it
23:08:13 <fizzie> I'll have to just state "-O2 takes longer than 5 minutes" and be done with it; it's not really my box, can't abuse it like that.
23:08:19 <ehird> AnMaster: orly? -O0 can be slow.
23:08:32 <Deewiant> With LDC, -O0 is slower than -O1
23:08:34 <AnMaster> ehird, for C or C++? Parsing both takes a lot of the time
23:08:39 <ehird> Deewiant: wut
23:08:42 <ehird> AnMaster: C is easy to parse...
23:08:42 <bsmntbombdood> compiling isn't abuse!
23:08:48 <Deewiant> ehird: Less code generated speeds up the LLVM backend
23:08:50 <ehird> fizzie: i'd hate having access, but not reign, to/on a powerful server
23:08:52 <ehird> Deewiant: heh
23:09:26 <Deewiant> Or something. Anyway, it is.
23:09:57 <bsmntbombdood> about 8 minutes judging from irc timestamps
23:10:33 <fizzie> Which gcc, btw? "4.3.3-5ubuntu4" at that server.
23:11:01 <bsmntbombdood> also 4.3.3
23:11:10 <ehird> fizzie: that thing's running ubuntu?
23:11:19 <ehird> that's sort of worrying
23:11:38 <ehird> i mean, it's an excellent desktop OS, but...
23:11:46 <fizzie> ehird: I guess they want to just learn one thing well; all the Linux workstations run Ubuntu too.
23:12:20 <bsmntbombdood> i still haven't been able to read my cpu temps
23:12:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: er, lm-sensors thing?
23:12:34 <Sgeo> It
23:12:41 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: yeah
23:12:42 <Sgeo> It's a miracle! ehird's in Sine!
23:12:47 <ehird> ...
23:12:50 <ehird> Get over yourself :P
23:12:55 <bsmntbombdood> worked fine in freebsd actually
23:13:02 <ehird> Sgeo: kyevan dragged me in yesterday
23:13:08 <Sgeo> Ah
23:14:03 <AnMaster> Sgeo, Sine?
23:14:21 <ehird> AnMaster: nothing.
23:14:24 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie: 5 minutes, 45 seconds
23:14:27 <ehird> (you asked that yesterday...)
23:14:33 <AnMaster> ehird, and you didn't answer.
23:14:54 <bsmntbombdood> now doing -O3
23:14:55 <ehird> AnMaster: yep
23:14:58 <fizzie> The motherboard hardware-monitoring chipsets are all over the place, but I think "modprobe coretemp" + sensors should work rather more reliably. (Well, assuming they've updated the coretemp driver for i7 models, and it still supports the same things. I have no idea whether that's true.)
23:14:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: -march=i7
23:15:03 <AnMaster> ehird, why not tell now
23:15:04 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: why
23:15:06 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, -fwhole-program -combine -O3 -march=athlon64-msse3 -fgcse-sm -fgcse-las -fgcse-after-reload -fsee -fipa-pta -fipa-cp -ftree-loop-linear -ftree-loop-im -ftree-loop-ivcanon -fivopts
23:15:07 <AnMaster> :D
23:15:08 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: speed
23:15:19 <AnMaster> ehird, that is suboptimal for me though
23:15:21 <bsmntbombdood> coretemp won't load,that's the problem
23:15:27 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: Well, the system couldn't have been *much* faster than yours, since it hadn't finished in 5 minutes.
23:15:27 <AnMaster> as in: not runnable
23:15:32 <ehird> AnMaster: he already compiled it for you.
23:15:34 <bsmntbombdood> FATAL: Error inserting coretemp (/lib/modules/2.6.26-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/hwmon/coretemp.ko): No such device
23:15:47 <fizzie> 2.6.26 is not very new.
23:15:49 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, core != i7
23:15:52 <AnMaster> afaik
23:16:01 <ehird> core != i7? What a meaningless equation.
23:16:04 <bsmntbombdood> sensors-detect says that's the right module
23:16:13 <fizzie> i7 is of the Core family, though.
23:16:16 <AnMaster> ok
23:16:17 <ehird> Yeah.
23:16:20 <AnMaster> then that core module is too old
23:16:20 <ehird> Core i7.
23:16:22 <AnMaster> I guess
23:16:24 <fizzie> Given that even Atom does the coretemp stuff, I'd guess i7 does too.
23:16:31 <AnMaster> try 2.6.29
23:16:35 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: What's your /proc/cpuinfo "model" number?
23:16:39 <ehird> AnMaster: he's running debian testing
23:16:41 <ehird> so he has that
23:16:47 <AnMaster> hm
23:17:02 <bsmntbombdood> model           : 26
23:17:29 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: Yes; that works with a newer coretemp module. So you'll get it sooner or later.
23:17:51 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: arch might have the newer module :-P
23:17:55 <AnMaster> gcc 4.3.3? Why not gcc 4.4 :D
23:18:02 * AnMaster has it on that arch computer already
23:18:07 <AnMaster> I guess Deewiant does too
23:18:17 <ehird> http://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/gcc/ # 4.4!
23:18:22 <AnMaster> ehird, yes
23:18:23 <pikhq> AnMaster: Gentoo is not bleeding edge with its compilers.
23:18:27 <ehird> Clearly, it's 0.1 better.
23:18:27 <AnMaster> I said that above
23:18:28 <AnMaster> duh
23:18:29 <AnMaster> ...
23:18:32 <pikhq> ;)
23:18:33 <ehird> AnMaster: I was looking for it as you typed.
23:18:42 <AnMaster> ehird, kay
23:18:57 * pikhq just switched to 4.3 a few months ago
23:19:00 <pikhq> From 4.1.
23:19:04 <AnMaster> same.
23:19:09 <AnMaster> on my gentoo box
23:19:15 <fizzie> For the record; compiled LostKng with -O2 also at home with this Athlon X2. It took 9 minutes, 18 seconds. Used up very little memory for most of the time, then jumped to some 2.3 gigabytes in the end.
23:19:18 <AnMaster> and I didn't recompile everything!
23:19:20 <AnMaster> why would I
23:19:21 <AnMaster> :D
23:19:57 <pikhq> Actually, recompiling for a new version of the compiler is highly recommended; the ABI sometimes changes.
23:20:06 <ehird> % gcc -march=deathstation9000
23:20:07 <ehird> i686-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1: no input files
23:20:10 <Sgeo> http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/college-students-use-glass-bottles-to-play-tetris-theme
23:20:14 <AnMaster> fizzie, interesting. And I only have 1.5 GB
23:20:20 <ehird> pikhq: er, what about binary blobs?
23:20:29 <ehird> AnMaster: lern2share
23:20:32 <AnMaster> pikhq, yeah I read the GCC changelog to figure out when it does
23:20:36 <AnMaster> ehird, ?
23:20:43 <ehird> AnMaster: er
23:20:44 <ehird> lern2swap
23:20:50 <ehird> (ehird: lern2words)
23:21:06 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I have swap too. another 1.5 GB. But using it == slow
23:21:14 <ehird> he said it just jumped at the en
23:21:15 <ehird> d
23:21:21 <ehird> so it'd only be a few seconds, I assume
23:21:26 <pikhq> ehird: Weird shit happens.
23:21:31 <ehird> pikhq: that sucks
23:21:41 <ehird> i rely on binary blobby sort of things
23:21:42 <AnMaster> ehird, minutes. I have 512 MB ram *free* + 244 MB swap in use
23:21:55 <ehird> fizzie: how long did it use >2
23:21:55 <ehird> g
23:21:56 <AnMaster> actually:
23:21:58 <AnMaster>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
23:21:58 <AnMaster> Mem:          1504       1065        438          0         77        231
23:21:58 <AnMaster> -/+ buffers/cache:        755        748
23:21:58 <AnMaster> Swap:         1960        276       1684
23:22:16 <ehird> 1G total free
23:22:18 <fizzie> ehird: I wasn't actually looking so closely. Not over a minute.
23:22:30 <AnMaster> ehird, how did you read that
23:22:48 <ehird> AnMaster: -/+ buffers/cache sez 748 free
23:22:51 <ehird> swap says 276 free
23:23:00 <fizzie> Swap says 276 used.
23:23:01 <ehird> AnMaster: you DO know that the kernel reserves a ton of memory for itself, right?
23:23:06 <ehird> fizzie: oh
23:23:09 <ehird> unaligned irc client
23:23:11 <AnMaster> ehird, where does it end up with 1 GB
23:23:19 <ehird> so 2432MB free
23:23:21 <AnMaster> ehird, fail2fonts
23:23:23 <AnMaster> :P
23:23:31 <ehird> AnMaster: "fail2"? lern2meme
23:23:49 <AnMaster> ehird, rather-iNot
23:24:14 <AnMaster> ehird, actually: in your i
23:24:20 <ehird> what
23:24:26 <AnMaster> ehird, rebus
23:24:29 <AnMaster> kind of
23:24:31 <ehird> ...?
23:24:41 <AnMaster> in your i = Use i as referring to math
23:24:52 <AnMaster> "in your dreams"
23:24:57 <AnMaster> bad joke yes
23:25:05 <fizzie> Beauty is in the eye(5) 5x5 identity matrix of the beholder.
23:25:08 <ehird> actually you just came off as a drug-addled incoherent
23:25:09 <bsmntbombdood> -O3 finished
23:25:13 <AnMaster> fizzie, hehe
23:25:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: srsly?
23:25:17 <ehird> that's fast.
23:25:22 <ehird> your machine is smoking. gimme an ssh connection
23:25:24 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, binary size?
23:25:31 <bsmntbombdood> 8 minutes, 18 seconds
23:25:35 <AnMaster> no no. Give me an ssh connection!
23:25:40 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: same as the other one
23:25:47 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, same url?
23:26:00 <bsmntbombdood> hold on
23:26:03 <ehird> wait, same binary size?
23:26:09 <ehird> that must mean that -O3 did not much
23:26:12 <ehird> or a very big coincidence
23:26:15 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoptimization
23:26:16 <AnMaster> Very
23:26:18 <AnMaster> Interesting
23:26:22 <bsmntbombdood> http://filebin.ca/pxgzxh/a.out is the O3
23:26:35 <ehird> AnMaster: superoptimization is totally impractical
23:26:41 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: not exactly the same
23:26:43 <AnMaster> ehird, sadly :(
23:26:48 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: oh
23:26:53 <AnMaster> ehird, it is still interesting.
23:27:01 <bsmntbombdood> they are both 1.2megabytes
23:27:51 <bsmntbombdood> didn't someone predict this compilation would take hours?
23:28:03 <ehird> me
23:28:08 <ehird> it should have
23:28:11 <ehird> but i7s are too fast ;-)
23:28:38 <bsmntbombdood> fizzie's athlon was that much slower
23:28:44 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: do "-O3 -march=i7 -msse4.1"
23:28:46 <AnMaster> actually I got that OOM message after just a few minutes on my own Sempron
23:28:49 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: it'll be ridiculously fast
23:28:53 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: :P
23:28:54 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: or try icc
23:28:59 <AnMaster> GCC is RAM bount, not memory bound
23:29:00 <ehird> oh wait
23:29:04 <AnMaster> err
23:29:05 <ehird> it has sse4.2 too
23:29:09 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: do "-O3 -march=i7 -msse4"
23:29:13 <AnMaster> RAM bound, not CPU bound
23:29:14 <AnMaster> mostly
23:29:17 <ehird> it should take about the same time
23:29:21 <ehird> AnMaster: I said that ages ago
23:29:23 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i don't care about running it
23:29:24 <AnMaster> ehird, yes
23:29:32 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you should do it anyway, it'll just take 8 minutes
23:29:33 <AnMaster> ehird, you seem to be forgetting it though
23:29:38 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, do it on GCC 4.4
23:29:41 <ehird> and it'll be a ridiculously fast computation for ridiculously fast hardware
23:29:49 <AnMaster> with the graphite loop optimiser
23:29:49 <AnMaster> :D
23:30:04 <AnMaster> to reshape loops
23:32:02 <bsmntbombdood> i once tried to compile the output of gperf on a large dictionary
23:32:17 <bsmntbombdood> gperf took 3 or so days i think
23:32:22 <bsmntbombdood> and gcc crashed
23:32:31 -!- coppro has joined.
23:32:35 <ehird> hi coppro
23:32:40 <ehird> eaten any feces lately?
23:32:41 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, you mean profiled feedback?
23:32:54 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: gperf not gprof
23:33:09 <bsmntbombdood> that was just from handling a large array of strings though
23:33:16 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, oh the perfect hash one
23:33:16 <AnMaster> right
23:33:21 <bsmntbombdood> {"foo", * 100000}
23:33:36 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, gperf works best on small sets. For large ones better use other hash libs.
23:33:47 <bsmntbombdood> i know, it had a load factor of like 400
23:34:39 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, try cmph
23:35:00 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, it worked well for me on large sets
23:35:03 <AnMaster> not THAT large
23:35:11 <bsmntbombdood> meh, not worth it
23:35:16 <AnMaster> but a few thousand elements
23:35:19 <AnMaster> haven't tried more
23:35:26 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, http://cmph.sourceforge.net/
23:35:40 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: are you playing lostking?
23:35:57 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, yes. testing that it works
23:36:14 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, next step is to improve the BF-to-C translation
23:36:18 <bsmntbombdood> what's a good brainfuck benchmark?
23:36:26 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, mandlebrot.b
23:36:34 <AnMaster> and, esotope-bfc is a way better compiler
23:36:51 <AnMaster> than in-between (the one that generated that output you compiled)
23:37:33 <ehird> *mandelbrot.b
23:37:35 <AnMaster> I do most the the basic stuff it does though. What I don't yet (since I haven't worked out a good way to do it reliably and that works on nested loops): loop-to-polynom
23:37:41 <AnMaster> ehird, ah thanks
23:37:53 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: compile mandelbrot.b with esotope-bfc, hthen
23:37:55 <ehird> er
23:38:01 <AnMaster> yeah he should
23:38:03 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: compile mandelbrot.b with esotope-bfc, then "gcc -O3 -march=i7 -msse4"
23:38:03 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
23:38:04 <AnMaster> haven't tried it
23:38:10 <AnMaster> ehird, 4.2
23:38:11 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: it'll be jaw-droppingly ... fast.
23:38:11 <AnMaster> iirc
23:38:13 <bsmntbombdood> someone give me the c, i'm too lazy
23:38:19 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: AnMaster can :-P
23:38:22 <AnMaster> no
23:38:25 <ehird> bah
23:38:26 <AnMaster> I don't have esotope here
23:38:28 <AnMaster> :P
23:38:28 <ehird> AnMaster: link to esotope-bfc
23:38:34 <AnMaster> google.com
23:38:43 <AnMaster> sorry:
23:38:47 <ehird> k
23:38:47 <AnMaster> http://google.com
23:38:52 <AnMaster> that is clickable even!
23:39:07 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i will supply this code on the condition that you use "gcc -O3 -march=i7 -msse4" :-P
23:39:18 <bsmntbombdood> of course
23:39:24 <pikhq> ehird: -march=i7 implies -msse4.
23:39:32 <ehird> pikhq: oh? okay.
23:39:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: "gcc -O3 -march=i7" then.
23:39:41 <GregorR-L> http://google.com/search?q=esotope+bfc you mean :P
23:39:47 <pikhq> Now we're talking.
23:40:05 <AnMaster> what
23:40:16 <GregorR-L> !bf_txtgen http://google.com/search?q=
23:40:25 <AnMaster> !help
23:40:26 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
23:40:27 <AnMaster> hm
23:40:32 <AnMaster> GregorR, it fails it seems
23:40:39 <AnMaster> GregorR, I suspect quoting fail
23:40:42 <AnMaster> !bf_txtgen =
23:40:43 <GregorR-L> Oh, hah, it's downloading that page :P
23:40:47 <EgoBot> 33 ++++++++++[>++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.>. [99]
23:40:51 <AnMaster> GregorR, oh
23:40:53 <AnMaster> hehe
23:40:59 <GregorR-L> 'twas a stupid.
23:41:00 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: http://pastie.org/481059.txt?key=nlsidb0ldiwfqybsv76tcg; "time gcc -O3 -march=i7 mandelbrot.b.c -o mandelbrot"
23:41:01 <AnMaster> GregorR, so how do you force it as text
23:41:03 <ehird> don't forget the time!
23:41:08 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: I dont' have a way :P
23:41:13 <GregorR-L> !bf_txtgen htp://google.com/search?q=
23:41:17 <EgoBot> 201 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++.----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.>-----. [730]
23:41:19 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: then "time ./mandelbrot > /dev/null" 5 times
23:41:28 <bsmntbombdood> uhhuh
23:41:35 <ehird> uhuuhuhuhh
23:41:35 <GregorR-L> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.
23:41:37 <AnMaster> <ehird> don't forget the time!
23:41:44 <AnMaster> ehird, that isn't so much different from mine
23:41:54 <ehird> AnMaster: it's hard to optimize such a program
23:41:54 <GregorR-L> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.>-----.
23:41:59 <GregorR-L> >_>
23:42:02 <ehird> but esotope seems to have dnoe a good job
23:42:17 <ehird> while (p[7] != 0) p -= 9;
23:42:18 <EgoBot> 142844 +++++[>+++++++++++++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++<<<<-]>>----------.>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<<---------.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++.<<------------------------------------------------------.--.>-----.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.----.>----.>----------------------------------------------.>--------------------------------------------.<+++++++
23:42:19 <ehird> how confusing
23:42:21 <bsmntbombdood> bah
23:42:26 <bsmntbombdood> mandelbrot.c:1: error: bad value (i7) for -march= switch
23:42:33 <AnMaster> <ehird>  while (p[7] != 0) p -= 9;
23:42:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: upgrade gcc
23:42:35 <AnMaster> <ehird> how confusing
23:42:37 <AnMaster> WUT
23:42:43 <ehird> AnMaster: i looked at it and my brain broke for a second
23:42:44 <AnMaster> how is that confusing
23:42:44 <ehird> also
23:42:45 <ehird> int loopcnt8;
23:42:47 <ehird> for (loopcnt8 = p[43]; loopcnt8 > 0; --loopcnt8) {
23:42:49 <ehird> pretty neat
23:42:56 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: srsly, upgrade gcc just for this
23:42:57 <ehird> it's vital
23:43:04 <ehird> we need i7/sse SHPEED goodness.
23:43:11 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, I did that in "before", and I have the needed metadata already to do it.
23:43:15 <GregorR-L> !addinterp google bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[.,]
23:43:15 <EgoBot> Interpreter google installed.
23:43:20 <AnMaster> ehird, just FYI
23:43:26 <ehird> !google let me google that for you
23:43:27 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=let me google that for you
23:43:31 <AnMaster> ehird, but I haven't got around to writing that pass yet.
23:43:36 <ehird> AnMaster: k
23:43:40 <GregorR-L> Slightly imperfect :P
23:43:57 <bsmntbombdood> with -march=native, running it takes about 1.2 seconds
23:43:59 <AnMaster> ehird, I have all the analysing data needed to do it all. Just need to write the optimiser pass that uses it :(
23:44:01 <AnMaster> err
23:44:07 <AnMaster> s/:(/:)/
23:44:17 <AnMaster> !google
23:44:18 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=
23:46:25 <GregorR-L> !google esotope+bfc
23:46:26 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=esotope+bfc
23:46:33 <AnMaster> ehird, what does estope generate for the program in !google
23:46:37 <AnMaster> PUTS?
23:46:45 <ehird> AnMaster: i'll try
23:46:51 <ehird> 23:43 bsmntbombdood: with -march=native, running it takes about 1.2 seconds
23:46:52 <ehird> that's slow
23:46:55 <AnMaster> I will be able to do that once I get the loop unrolling done
23:46:56 <ehird> the top interp takes ~13 secs
23:47:14 <ehird> AnMaster:
23:47:15 <ehird> PUTS("http://google.com/search?q=");
23:47:15 <ehird> p[3] = GETC();
23:47:17 <ehird> while (p[3]) {
23:47:19 <ehird> PUTC(p[3]);
23:47:20 <AnMaster> ehird, output from my compiler running it takes about 2 seconds here. And my CPU is slow
23:47:21 <ehird> p[3] = GETC();
23:47:23 <ehird> }
23:47:26 <AnMaster> ehird, nice
23:47:30 <GregorR-L> Sweet
23:47:49 <ehird> AnMaster: not perfect, though
23:47:51 <AnMaster> ehird, I get this currently: http://pastebin.com/m1dc332dd
23:47:54 <ehird> it doesn't need to assign to the tape
23:48:00 <AnMaster> ehird, hah.
23:48:01 <ehird> well, i guess it has to use a variable
23:48:02 <ehird> so whatever
23:48:07 <ehird> but yeah
23:48:09 <ehird> esotope is sweet
23:48:30 <AnMaster> ehird, I already do the const, out -> out_const. Just not the loop flatterning
23:48:32 <ehird> AnMaster: I'll try life.b now
23:48:34 <AnMaster> so I need to add that
23:48:39 <AnMaster> ehird, link to it?
23:48:43 <AnMaster> I'm missing it
23:48:44 <ehird> http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/brainfuck/life.bf
23:48:48 <AnMaster> thanks
23:49:01 <ehird> s/bf/b/ since the person evidently doesn't know about befunge-98
23:49:01 * AnMaster mvs it to .b
23:49:05 <ehird> snap
23:49:14 <ehird> holy nested loops batman
23:49:15 <AnMaster> ehird, and that is befunge 93
23:49:18 <ehird> er
23:49:20 <ehird> i typed 93
23:49:21 <ehird> but typoed
23:49:21 <AnMaster> befunge98 == .bf98
23:49:26 <ehird> er
23:49:27 <AnMaster> err
23:49:27 <ehird> .b98
23:49:28 <ehird> you mean
23:49:28 <AnMaster> b98
23:49:29 <AnMaster> yeah
23:49:32 <AnMaster> I typoed too
23:49:45 <AnMaster> out of solidarity or something. </retcon>
23:49:45 <ehird> life and mandelbrot don't get much constantizing
23:49:54 <AnMaster> ehird, it is hard to do in them
23:49:59 <ehird> i bet someone's been testing on lostkng's stupid generated code
23:50:01 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah, still
23:50:10 <AnMaster> I have studied mandelbrot quite a lot
23:50:15 <AnMaster> just to figure that out
23:50:30 <ehird> how do I get a list of march's
23:50:55 <AnMaster> http://pastebin.ca/1425889
23:50:58 <AnMaster> ehird, man gcc
23:51:01 <ehird> i did that
23:51:04 <ehird> didn't know what to grep for
23:51:26 <AnMaster> ehird, grep for k8, that lands you in the right section (x86 specific)
23:51:27 <ehird> AnMaster: that is much shorter. over 300 lines for esotope
23:51:28 <ehird> I wonder why?
23:51:33 <AnMaster> ehird, wow
23:51:41 <AnMaster> ehird, pastebin your life for esotope!
23:51:56 <ehird> i missed context there for a second
23:51:57 <ehird> and went wtf
23:52:06 <AnMaster> ehird, what
23:52:13 <bsmntbombdood> this song is awesome
23:52:15 <ehird> on your paste lin
23:52:15 <ehird> ee
23:52:21 <ehird> AnMaster: http://pastebin.ca/1425899
23:52:22 <AnMaster> ehird, err
23:52:29 <ehird> 23:51 AnMaster: ehird, pastebin your life for esotope!
23:52:34 <ehird> i didnt know what life meant there
23:52:35 <ehird> for a second
23:52:39 <AnMaster> examples/life.b.c lines 425-470/470 (END)
23:52:49 <AnMaster> it is longer?
23:52:52 <AnMaster> mine I mean
23:52:54 <ehird> oh hm
23:52:56 <ehird> it looked shorter
23:53:03 <ehird> due to font/browser-editor size differences
23:53:06 <ehird> and lack of indentation I guess
23:53:20 <AnMaster> ehird, indention isn't needed in auto generated code
23:53:29 <ehird> W.T.F.
23:53:29 <AnMaster> if I need that while reading it I do astyle on it
23:53:32 <ehird> AnMaster: i know
23:53:36 <ehird> it jsut threw me off
23:53:37 <ehird> and
23:53:38 <ehird> wtf
23:53:40 <ehird> my gcc
23:53:42 <AnMaster> what "W.T.F"
23:53:42 <ehird> doesn't have
23:53:44 <ehird> core 2
23:53:46 <ehird> optimizations
23:53:48 <ehird> just prescott and p4 and shit
23:53:49 <AnMaster> ehird, how old
23:53:57 <AnMaster> what version
23:53:58 <ehird> 4.0.1; it's ancient but not THAT ancient
23:54:01 * ehird tries gcc-4.2
23:54:06 <AnMaster> ehird, yes that ancient
23:54:12 <ehird> it's not older than core2.
23:54:20 <ehird> gcc-4.2 has core2, huh.
23:54:28 <ehird> % time gcc-4.2 -O3 -march=core2 mandelbrot.b.c -o mandelbrot
23:54:38 <ehird> gcc-4.2 -O3 -march=core2 mandelbrot.b.c -o mandelbrot  1.56s user 0.25s system 18% cpu 9.958 total
23:54:52 <ehird> boy it's slow
23:55:00 <ehird> 6.5 seconds first time
23:55:07 <ehird> bff.c does it in 13
23:55:12 <ehird> and it's an interpreter!
23:55:13 <bsmntbombdood> ha ha, mine compiles in 1.4 seconds on the wall
23:55:14 <ehird> 6.7 second time
23:55:27 <AnMaster> um
23:55:39 <AnMaster> ~5 seconds for -O3 here on my Sempron
23:55:41 <AnMaster> :O
23:55:53 <bsmntbombdood> MY COMPUTER IS FASTER THAN YOURS
23:55:55 <AnMaster> for the one generated by my compiler
23:56:03 <ehird> it's just Eddie's in the space time continuum
23:56:06 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: give me your code
23:56:07 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, yeah, 2 GHz Sempron 3300+
23:56:21 <ehird> now life.b time
23:56:25 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, http://pastebin.ca/1425908
23:56:32 <AnMaster> if it is mandlebrot
23:56:35 <ehird> % time gcc-4.2 -O3 -march=core2 life.b.c -o life      gcc-4.2 -O3 -march=core2 life.b.c -o life  0.21s user 0.04s system 21% cpu 1.145 total
23:56:39 <ehird> AnMaster: gimme some life.b input
23:56:45 <AnMaster> ehird, ?
23:56:47 <ehird> i forget the syntax
23:56:49 <ehird> oh
23:56:52 <ehird> you didn't know of it
23:56:54 <ehird> until now
23:56:55 <ehird> heh
23:57:20 <AnMaster> $ time gcc -std=gnu99 -O3 -Wall -Wextra -o life examples/life.b.c
23:57:20 <AnMaster> real    0m0.894s
23:57:20 <AnMaster> user    0m0.696s
23:57:20 <AnMaster> sys     0m0.042s
23:57:34 <AnMaster> and I don't know how you do it
23:57:37 <ehird> "while Sweden turned down the euro in a 2003 referendum, and has circumvented the obligation to adopt the euro by not meeting the monetary and budgetary requirements."
23:57:37 <AnMaster> ehird, tell me
23:57:42 <bsmntbombdood> AnMaster: your code takes 1.9 seconds, compared to 1.2 for the other compiler
23:57:47 <ehird> "Hah, take that, EU! We're gonna be poor so you can't force your currency on us."
23:57:49 <ehird> —Sweden
23:57:58 <ehird> AnMaster: row/col turns it on
23:58:03 <AnMaster> ehird, what about UK and Euro
23:58:05 <ehird> AnMaster: then an empty line steps a simulation
23:58:06 <AnMaster> ehird, and to run it?
23:58:09 <AnMaster> ah
23:58:22 <ehird> AnMaster: the UK just said "we're fat lazy euro-hating bastards and we'll do what the fuck we want k."
23:58:36 <AnMaster> ehird, kay
23:59:06 <ehird> AnMaster: to get a glider:
23:59:08 <GregorR-L> !delinterp google
23:59:08 <EgoBot> Interpreter google deleted.
23:59:26 <AnMaster> ehird, yes?
23:59:33 <GregorR-L> !addinterp google bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[>[-]>[-]<<[>+>+<<-]>>>[-]++++++++[<---->-]<[[-]>+<]>-[<<[-]>+++++++[<++++++>-]<+>>[-]]<<.[-]<,]
23:59:33 <EgoBot> Interpreter google installed.
23:59:35 <ehird> sec
23:59:37 <GregorR-L> !google hello world
23:59:37 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=hello+world
23:59:39 <GregorR-L> :)
23:59:43 <AnMaster> haha