00:00:05 -!- coppro has joined. 00:00:08 Hi coppro. 00:00:12 You came in at exactly midnight. 00:00:30 hi 00:00:35 And/or 7PM :P 00:00:40 Interesting 00:00:40 no, it's 1st o'clock 00:00:47 5 PM here 00:00:55 ehird, are you seriously saying you can't wiggle your ears? 00:01:04 me neither 00:01:05 Well, I can wiggle them if I smile/frown. 00:01:09 I can wiggle my ears back and forth, but not up and down. 00:01:12 without that 00:01:19 GregorR, I can't do back forth, only up/down 00:01:21 I can wiggle and lick my nose :P 00:01:41 And I can fold my tongue length-wise. 00:01:49 GregorR, you mean back (ear -- ear) ? 00:01:51 me either 00:01:51 huh 00:02:04 * GregorR wonders what "ear -- ear" is supposed to mean. 00:02:09 And I can fold my tongue length-wise. <-- can't do. 00:02:16 I've only met one other person who can :P 00:02:19 I can wiggle and lick my nose :P <-- what? wiggle your nose? 00:02:26 Those are two separate talents :P 00:02:31 I can wiggle my nose, and I can also lick my nose. 00:02:38 GregorR, as for lick nose. No. But I can reach far in the other direction. 00:02:40 ha 00:02:44 i'm ginger :D 00:02:58 AND WHO'S THE BEST MUTANT HERE?! 00:03:52 Oh Madagascar, you are so naive. Once I have you all Iw ill escape on a ship 00:03:54 WHAT THE FUCK 00:03:56 THEY ALL FOUND ME 00:04:05 MARTIAL LAW EVERYWHERE 00:04:11 BUT I'M INVISIBLE IN MADAGASCAR 00:04:15 ... 00:04:16 it spread 00:04:17 how did it spread 00:04:24 Vaccine?! 00:04:32 http://www.wikihow.com/Wiggle-Your-Ears 00:04:54 ehird, what 00:05:01 VACCINE DEPLOYED!! 00:05:05 I hate you, Pandemic II. 00:05:18 And it worked. 00:05:40 thank God Poland is safe - no one comes to this shithole 00:06:17 Oh well, I bought a load of symptoms and shit to try and kill the few people i have 00:07:13 erm 00:07:22 nooga, game. 00:07:25 flash one 00:07:30 which explains a lot. 00:07:31 he knows, probably. 00:08:00 yea 00:08:07 i wonder what's the url 00:08:15 lmgtfy.com 00:08:31 ehird, what is the name of it 00:08:38 Pandemic II 00:09:15 and what was the url for the url 00:09:17 ;P 00:09:37 meh, real url is http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/jkf6Tr/pandemic2.swf 00:09:40 but, uh, you need flash. 00:10:12 ehird, really!? 00:10:17 why 00:10:21 you need graphical terminal 00:10:22 Because it's a flash game? :P 00:10:42 hard to find one these days 00:25:29 my virus is called ehird 00:25:50 i hope you don't kill anyone 00:26:03 im on the phone wit the president of madagascar 00:26:07 he's shutting down everything 00:26:08 everyone, in fact 00:44:42 that game doesn't make sense? 00:44:50 "buy symptoms"+ 00:44:52 what 00:45:04 I haven't tried it (of course, since it is flash) 00:45:30 but from what you told me it mentioned it makes no sense from a biology point of view 00:45:37 that's why it's a game 00:45:40 and not a biology lesson 00:45:52 ehird, why not realistic games. 00:45:57 what prevents that 00:46:05 because a game about being an actual virus would be unbelievably difficult and not fun at all 00:46:17 ehird, ok, but what about other ones 00:46:29 AnMaster: if realism was fun, games wouldn't exist 00:46:37 we'd be going out inventing our own viruses. 00:46:39 ehird, there could be both 00:46:45 AnMaster: did you know, supertux isn't realistic? 00:46:58 ehird, yes. I'm saying there is place for both. 00:46:59 penguins don't look like that, they don't jump on walking snowballs with eyes and those snowballs don't fall down 00:47:01 also the world isn't 2d 00:47:12 and blocks that make you big don't come out of things that you wack from below 00:47:21 funny that 00:47:40 ehird, don't be daft. Why do you think you are still short. 00:47:45 yes that's right. 00:47:57 You thought it was all made up right? 00:47:58 AnMaster: well in super mario bros it's a mushroom 00:47:58 haha 00:48:07 so what I get from that is, do mushrooms and possibly other drugs 00:48:09 → strong & tall 00:48:11 ehird, yes both exists. 00:52:23 wonder if llvm would handle dynamic typing shit, the thing i'm trying to implement 00:53:36 yes. 00:54:40 no wai 00:55:55 -!- Judofyr has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:55:55 -!- Ilari has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:55:55 -!- GregorR has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:56:16 -!- Judofyr has joined. 00:56:16 -!- Ilari has joined. 00:56:16 -!- GregorR has joined. 00:58:09 -!- Ilari has quit (Connection reset by peer). 00:58:20 -!- Ilari has joined. 01:04:43 isnt code generated by llvm slower than code generated by gcc? 01:04:49 no 01:05:01 clang is more or less gcc competitive afaik 01:08:31 beh, clang is even faster 01:09:08 night 01:11:11 But GCC doesn't need to reap my soul to be installed. 01:11:36 pikhq: ? 01:11:45 Is a bitch. 01:11:53 pikhq, easy. 01:11:56 apt-get install 01:12:00 no 01:12:11 ./configure --perfix=$HOME/local/llvm 01:12:18 * pikhq has a notable lack of aptitude 01:12:19 perfix 01:12:28 prefix 01:12:30 duh 01:12:34 AnMaster, does it work on x86_64? 01:12:53 If not, it's more of a bitch than I'm willing to deal with. Otherwise, I'm just misinformed. 01:12:57 ......... pikhq only if you have x86_64_magic_pixie 01:13:00 like I 01:13:08 what 01:13:09 .... 01:13:13 of course it does 01:13:23 stupid question 01:13:30 no it isnt 01:13:32 docs! 01:13:40 it generates fucking machine code 01:13:55 No it's not. There's code generation involved, making x86_64 involve actual *work*. 01:13:55 ehird, yes but docs. And it supported it for years 01:14:22 ... Years. x86_64 is a rather recent architecture. 01:14:48 pikhq, yes, not many years. But more than one certainly. 01:14:50 Linux has supported x86_64 for a few years, and it's supported x86_64 longer than it's been publicly available. 01:15:08 pikhq, that's interesting 01:15:12 the latter I mean 01:15:19 how did it manage that 01:15:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:15:35 ... cpu samples 01:15:38 from amd 01:15:39 duh 01:15:41 Linux devs were handed free hardware and documentation. 01:15:56 So it could be supported by 2.6.0. 01:16:34 ah 01:22:12 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:27:56 ehird: i was sleeping... sorry for too late answer. what was the question? 01:31:39 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:57:16 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo-Val-Hum-Fem. 01:57:37 -!- Sgeo-Val-Hum-Fem has changed nick to Sgeo. 02:02:33 shit 02:02:54 llvm src has been downloading for an hour 02:07:45 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 02:20:51 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 02:41:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:03:29 Either explain why the latter half of this disjunction cannot be accomplished, or explain why the former half cannot be accomplished. 03:05:44 Heck, here's a simpler one: 03:05:54 There is a disproof of this statement. 03:09:23 Better one: 03:09:27 This statement is false. 03:11:10 "this statement" is ambiguous, e.g. this statement is false: the pig can fly. 03:12:15 unto itself, however, "This statement is false." would appear to be self-referential. 03:12:47 and as such unambiguous 03:18:12 So is "There is a disproof of this statement." 03:19:17 What's it like to know that your simple decision has killed hundrens, and might kill millions? 03:20:08 Sgeo: is this a hypothetical "you" or some "you" in particular? 03:20:48 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30461857/ 03:21:23 Hernandez wanted to keep him home from school so he wouldn't get sick, but her husband said, "We can't be afraid of what might or might not happen." 03:22:32 I wasn't going to shoot an AK-47 into a crowd of civilians, but we can't be afraid of what might or might not happen. 03:25:11 "But Jose Luis Martinez, a 34-year-old resident of the town, made the swine flu connection the minute he heard a description of the symptoms on the news: fever, coughing, joint aches, severe headache and, in some cases, vomiting and diarrhea." 03:25:18 These are the symptoms of ALL FORMS OF INFLUENZA 03:26:00 I find it quite funny that people are afraid of eating pork because of this. 03:26:53 When the mad cow disease craziness was about, I didn't stop eating raw cow brains *shrugs* 03:26:56 I don't think "we can't be afraid of what might or might not happen" actually means anything. 03:27:15 Yes, because the flu is spread by consuming muscle tissue. Right... 03:27:23 kerlo: Well, in particular because "might" and "might not" are so generic that in fact all events might or might not happen :P 03:27:24 GregorR: Uh... Eating raw cow brains? 03:27:43 It's meaningless in that it's a patent falsehood. 03:27:44 That doesn't seem like a very good idea regardless. 03:27:55 pikhq: But they're soooooooooooo delicious. 03:28:09 pikhq: How's PRP comin'? X-P 03:28:23 What's the flavor of a raw cow brain? 03:28:34 It's raw cow brain flavored. 03:28:46 If I had to describe the flavor in three words, those words would be "raw cow brain". 03:28:59 How salty, how sweet, how bitter, how sour, how that-fifth-taste-someone-realized-existed? 03:29:02 I IS LAZY. 03:29:11 I will infect anyone who I see on Twitter claiming you get swine flu from eating pigs 03:29:14 And are you serious about eating raw cow brain? 03:29:21 kerlo: Umami. 03:29:31 And "someone" is "most of Asia". 03:30:12 Which "someone" is this? 03:30:27 The someone that realised the existence of umami. 03:30:44 Mm. 03:31:26 Whereas we were too dumb to realise that meat is (generally) neither salty, sweet, bitter, nor sour. ;p 03:32:21 ...... it's savory. 03:32:25 Hey. Scent particles are generally none of those, I believe. 03:32:43 GregorR: "it" being the fifth taste or cow brains? 03:32:52 Both meat and cow brains. 03:32:55 GregorR, = umami. 03:33:07 Although cow brains are also a little bit sweet, and have a bitterish after taste sort of like liver. 03:33:10 And don't ask me why we don't use savory, English is weird as fuck. 03:33:26 And it'll probably end up being "savory" in another decade, anyways. 03:33:42 pikhq: Sooo ... "savory" = "umami", and yet we act like its existence was discovered recently? 03:33:54 I wish people would stop saying things like "SARS scare" 03:33:59 Science is stubborn. 03:34:10 ... We in the west were just too dumb and stubborn to call it a flavor. 03:34:12 That's all. 03:34:20 Wow, how retarded. 03:34:24 Yeah. 03:34:36 Especially since people often make the claim that in general "women prefer sweet and men prefer SAVORY" 03:34:43 (never mind that we've got glutamate receptors on our tongue, it can't be a freaking flavor) 03:34:58 "I think I know the English language." "Are you SURE?" 03:35:17 "Maybe your ability to speak English comes with no knowledge whatsoever!" 03:38:16 Arguably "the English language" isn't defined well enough to "know" or "not know" it :P 03:41:55 Thi sprak Englisc? 04:00:17 In 200 years that could be English :) 04:03:37 * Sgeo sneezes and infects the channel with deathflu. 04:04:52 That was English about a thousand years ago. ;p 04:25:59 I want to advance yer English. 04:26:52 Articles are closed-class, you say? Nonsense, I say! I just invented one! 04:31:26 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:52:27 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:14:34 * GregorR wants a utilikilt. 05:34:37 -!- coppro has joined. 06:12:03 -!- WangZeDong has joined. 06:25:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:19:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:59 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 08:49:41 http://jaypinkerton.com/2005/02/03/superman-origin-comics/ 08:57:32 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:33:27 -!- tombom has joined. 09:47:42 When the mad cow disease craziness was about, I didn't stop eating raw cow brains *shrugs* <-- you ate that before? 10:42:32 -!- jix has joined. 11:19:01 -!- WangZeDong has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:19:17 -!- WangZeDong has joined. 11:38:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:55:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:56:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:34:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:47:57 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:49:23 -!- WangZeDong has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:49:37 -!- WangZeDong has joined. 13:43:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:57:28 hi ais523 13:58:21 hi 14:11:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:13:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:18:31 When the mad cow disease craziness was about, I didn't stop eating raw cow brains *shrugs* <-- you ate that before? 14:18:43 I bet he didn't stop beating his wife, either 14:19:40 oerjan, that is completely unrelated. And IWC! 14:20:04 __ ___ _ ___ ___ ____ _ _ 14:20:04 \ \ / / | | |/ _ \ / _ \/ ___|| | | | 14:20:04 \ \ /\ / /| |_| | | | | | | \___ \| |_| | 14:20:04 \ V V / | _ | |_| | |_| |___) | _ | 14:20:06 \_/\_/ |_| |_|\___/ \___/|____/|_| |_| 14:20:17 International Whaling Commission? 14:20:33 Deewiant: irregular webcomic 14:20:46 WebComic. 14:21:31 although the other IWC may be more relevant to foodstuffs. 14:22:23 (giant WHOOSH courtesy of figlet) 14:23:56 also, poor captain ponsonby 14:24:01 err 14:24:23 mouse and everything froze, then screen went black for a few seconds, then back to normal. 14:24:26 from dmesg: 14:24:28 [1106272.328198] NVRM: Xid (0001:00): 13, 0002 beef5f01 0000009f 00000308 030000d8 00000010 14:24:40 anyone got any clue what might have happened 14:25:13 AnMaster: your monitor has zaphod beeblebrox' glasses 14:25:28 for *WHOOSH* protection, obviously 14:25:49 I was trying to start an opengl app so I suspect it is somehow related to graphic card of ndivia drivers rather 14:27:04 AnMaster: maybe it's cosmic rays? any supernovas lately? 14:27:59 it seems like Xid with the value of 13 there is nvidia related memory fault/invalid instruction/similar. 14:29:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:29:23 * oerjan noted a science reddit recently about a new early warning facility for supernovas in the milky way, and found it amusing how some people in the comments looked forward to the next days... 14:30:59 There was that recent piece of news about the most distant gamma ray burst evar. Maybe your bits were flipped by a star that exploded some 13 short-scale-billion years ago. 14:31:37 * oerjan noted a science reddit recently about a new early warning facility for supernovas in the milky way, and found it amusing how some people in the comments looked forward to the next days... <-- looking forward why... 14:32:16 anyway it is reproducible with this program 14:32:20 so I doubt it. 14:32:37 apparently no one must have told them that supernovas happen only every 50 years on average, and the last one in our galaxy was seen in 1630 (iirc from wp) 14:32:55 *on average in a galaxy our size 14:33:58 For some reason my brain miscombinated ideas so that it came up with "oh, AnMaster has a reproducible supernova". 14:34:04 ... 14:34:07 fizzie, crazy 14:34:21 ./supernova --galaxy=ours --at=now+1h 14:34:38 erms, *1604 14:36:10 fizzie: that _would_ be scary. *SPOILER* there was one in the recent baby-eating aliens story 14:37:06 --star-selection=random for the irresponsible folks, --star-selection=populated_worlds_only for the downright evil ones. 14:37:23 they used it to do what yudkowsky probably considers saving humanity 14:38:30 hm this channel _is_ +c... 14:38:58 porn 14:39:17 nooga: you don't say 14:39:24 nor p 14:39:46 logic porn? now that's scary 14:40:04 ah yes, a woman was sentenced to 9 months of jail in Norway... for a rape 14:40:04 Gödel on Russell action 14:40:22 Slereah: rule 34 14:41:18 nooga: this was big news in poland? you perverts 14:42:05 no, -> digg 14:42:08 * oerjan either hasn't read that or considered it nonmemorable 14:42:25 oh today's news? 14:42:34 nope, quite old actually 14:43:04 test 14:43:13 but heh, norwegian jails are like 3 star hotels 14:43:21 so they say 14:43:48 maybe it's quite benefoicial to rape a guy by sucking his cock while he's asleep 14:44:02 and then... 9 months of free vacation in 3 star hotel 14:44:23 i don't think most norwegians consider that a vacation 14:44:33 you have to be very poor for that 14:44:34 msut think about doing that 14:45:30 yeah, everyone is poor compared with you :D 14:45:48 also i don't think you will have internet access even in norway, at least in your room. 14:45:52 *cell 14:46:22 (some of you here might consider that a deterrent ;D) 14:46:30 Can you get something to write code on, though? 9 distraction-free months do not sound too bad. 14:46:34 i eat bark from trees and drink water from polluted stream 14:46:51 i ride a bicycle made from garbage 14:46:55 and and and 14:47:23 use computer stolen from one german guy that went where he shouldn't 14:48:11 and and and, there are sheep everywhere, but they belong to rich poles 14:48:37 those perverts! 14:48:44 ;D 14:52:02 1,1Testing 14:52:05 bah 14:53:20 Testing 14:53:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:53:25 that was better 14:53:46 hi oerjan 14:53:51 hi ais523 14:54:07 or it would have been better if selecting it actually made the text visible 14:54:51 is it impossible to do spoiler hiding with irc colors 14:55:02 Testing 14:55:06 On a color-filtering channel, certainly. 14:55:21 clearly, we need spoiler characters in Unicode 14:55:27 INVISIBLE UNLESS SELECTED LATIN A 14:55:28 etc 14:55:32 or maybe COMBINING SPOILER 14:56:06 oh irssi only reverses background/foreground when selecting 14:56:18 obviously that won't work for this :( 14:56:24 It is probably your terminal emulator doing it, not irssi. 14:56:33 oh right 14:56:38 ais523: how about tag characters? 14:56:54 along the same line as right-to-left-override? 14:56:55 might work 14:57:47 that's unicode-only mechanism for tagging certain portion of text, for example language identification. 14:58:34 oh well it's not going to be portable anyway if there isn't a specific tag for it 14:58:36 Also the Unicode FAQ: "Should I be using those language tag characters? No. Use of the language tag characters is strongly discouraged." 14:58:39 there is only one defined tag type: language tag. e.g. text here 14:58:47 of course it has been deprecated 14:59:12 in favor of html or so 14:59:36 but if there is ... and so on, it might be useful 15:00:03 i see all this Testing stuff 15:00:46 nooga: well you should have seen only the first one, if your client supported colors 15:01:08 and solid blocks for the others 15:01:27 Er, you know, the color-filtering mode is on. 15:01:34 It was "1,1Testing" there and so on. 15:01:37 um 15:01:41 dammit 15:02:00 remembering the flag backwards 15:02:49 i mean +c should mean _more_ colors, right? grmblgrmbl 15:03:48 and stupid irssi which doesn't notice on your own text 15:04:37 and me only doing this same stupid error at _least_ twice before :D 15:05:20 alzheimer. that must be it. 15:05:57 also, oklopolio, which leads to incessant babbling 15:06:18 wait, where _is_ the guy 15:27:25 erm 15:27:34 *what??* 15:27:46 oh 15:28:09 nooga: *what???* 15:28:19 nvm 15:28:33 i thought it'd be bold 15:28:47 *hah* 15:29:05 since _underlined_ is underlined 15:29:10 *oh* 15:29:23 so, no ? allowed inside 15:29:50 indeed. also, we both use irssi, i don't know how portable this is 15:33:39 irssi ftw 15:36:08 *hah* 15:36:15 Hmm. 15:43:46 Gaiz 15:44:03 What is wrong with this expression : 15:44:11 Slereah: it's only a single colon 15:44:20 which isn't a valid expression in most languages 15:44:36 indeed. 15:44:44 F[Floor[RandomInteger[BinomialDistribution[Nu, p]]*k/Nu]] 15:44:44 Set::setps: Particules[[71]] in the part assignment is not a symbol. \ 15:44:44 >> 15:44:44 List 15:45:01 Particules := Table[{0; En/k*i}, {i, 0, k}] 15:45:01 F[x_] := Particules[[x]][[0]]++ 15:46:04 Slereah: Lists indices start from 1 15:46:23 Oh. 15:46:29 That's one thing, anyway 15:46:33 what 15:46:50 [[0]] gives you the head of the expression, namely List 15:47:11 Slereah: And what's that {0: En/k*i} 15:47:25 In particular, that 0; 15:47:48 Aaaa list? 15:48:02 Shit, did I use a colon? 15:48:09 Slereah: You used a semicolon. Did you want a comma? 15:48:14 Fucking qwerty keyboard 15:48:26 {0; En/k*i} is equivalent to {En/k*i} 15:48:34 Since ; is like C's comma operator 15:48:51 Or like C's ;, I guess :-P 15:50:32 -!- ais523 has set topic: http://dickensurl.com/1b34/It%E2%80%99s_my_old_girl_that_advises._She_has_the_head._But_I_never_own_to_it_before_her._Discipline_must_be_maintained.. 15:50:47 Beyond that it looks good to me, if something else is messed up it's probably because of Nu/En/k which you didn't give 15:50:59 Still Set::setps: Particules[[69]] in the part assignment is not a symbol. \ 15:50:59 >> 15:52:31 Owair 15:52:39 Apparently, Particules[[x]][[1]]++ can't work 15:52:43 ais523: Is that link supposed to be non-broken? 15:52:48 Slereah: Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. 15:52:50 Deewiant: yes 15:53:04 ais523: Ah, my auto-linkifier missed the period at the end. 15:53:20 How can you return the list incremented at x? 15:53:36 You want to return Particules[[x]]? 15:53:42 Use that semicolon :-P 15:53:52 wat 15:54:11 Particules[[x]][[1]]++; Particules[[x]] ? 15:54:14 -!- ais523 has set topic: . 15:54:24 ais523: It still misses it, FWIW. :-) 15:54:25 beh, even with the angle brackets my autolinkifier gets it wrong too 15:54:34 What does ; do in said case? 15:55:07 Slereah: Like ; or , in most other languages. Executes the first part then returns the second. 15:55:09 ais523: i guess this channel was never meant for fine art 15:55:17 quite possibly 15:55:32 Doesn't work, though 15:55:32 maybe I should vary the target URL slightly 15:55:46 even then, though, it's likely to have a final full stop 15:57:55 what language are you using there 15:58:03 Slereah: Hmm, I think some pass-by-ref stuff has to be done for F 15:58:05 tombom: Mathematica. 15:58:14 ah right 15:58:17 Slereah: It works standalone, just not in a function. 15:59:35 Slereah: Can't you just program functionally, like you're meant to? :-P 15:59:56 I bees at work 16:00:03 They have no scheme here 16:00:11 Mathematica is functional 16:00:24 Write that so that you don't try to modify the original 16:00:27 Also it doesn't actually work as standalone 16:00:33 Sure it does 16:00:45 In[9]:= xs={{1,2},{3,4}}; xs[[1]][[1]]++; xs[[1]] 16:00:45 Out[9]= {2, 2} 16:01:56 In[40]:= Particles; Particles[[1]][[1]]++; Particles 16:01:56 During evaluation of In[40]:= Part::partd: Part specification \ 16:01:56 Particles[[1]] is longer than depth of object. >> 16:01:56 During evaluation of In[40]:= Set::setps: Particles[[1]] in the part \ 16:01:56 assignment is not a symbol. >> 16:01:57 Out[40]= Particles 16:02:22 Slereah: Particules, not Particles? 16:02:33 Ah yes 16:02:34 what's the language? 16:02:38 Particules gives Set::setps: Particules[[1]] in the part assignment is not a symbol. >> 16:02:38 nooga: Mathematica. 16:03:16 ah 16:03:16 Shrug, it works for me at toplevel scope. 16:03:36 mean lean blatmachine by stephen wolfram ? 16:03:39 bloat* 16:03:50 Something like that. 16:04:47 omfg 16:04:48 Slereah: I don't know. Just code it non-imperatively :-P 16:04:54 i smell like beer 16:05:18 nooga: it's good for your hair! 16:06:10 rally? cool 16:06:14 it's imperative to be objective about your functional programming 16:06:14 let me take another one 16:06:34 really* 16:07:12 damn, the keyboard is weird 16:08:35 02:19 Sgeo: What's it like to know that your simple decision has killed hundrens, and might kill millions? 16:08:35 I don't exactly fault the husband here 16:08:36 what an odd match 16:08:38 00:27 lifthrasiir: ehird: i was sleeping... sorry for too late answer. what was the question? 16:08:44 lifthrasiir: how do you handle exact bounds / wrapping? 16:08:51 :) 16:08:55 ehird, question: where does OS X store it's font files. 16:09:05 ehird: counting non-whitespace cells in each lines and columns, and so on. 16:09:07 somewhere in /System I guess. 16:09:11 probably in OSX hell 16:09:14 maybe same with AnMaster's algorithm, iirc. 16:09:18 AnMaster: /Library/Fonts, ~/Library/Fonts 16:09:24 ehird, ah thanks 16:09:34 AnMaster: to convert a .dfont use fondu 16:09:38 lifthrasiir: what license is pyfunge again? :) 16:09:47 MIT. 16:10:02 pyfunge? 16:10:07 how many funges are there? 16:10:17 ehird, yes I know. 16:10:35 nooga: implementations 16:10:37 ehird, but there are some in /System/Library/Fonts too 16:10:42 not as many 16:10:43 odd 16:10:44 AnMaster: that's as may be. 16:10:54 lifthrasiir: yay, I can wantonly steal code from it! ;-) 16:10:58 Or, at least, could if I knew where it was. 16:11:00 s[x_] := x + 1 16:11:00 F[x_] := MapAt[s, Particules, x] 16:11:03 There we go 16:11:08 maybe an iFunge for iPhone? 16:11:09 particulars 16:11:10 Can't go wrong with the successor function* 16:11:11 ehird, ah it seems to be core GUI fonts, for menus and such 16:11:11 AnMaster: you're using OSX? 16:11:13 I think. 16:11:16 ehird: ;) 16:11:20 AnMaster: seems likely 16:11:34 ais523: don't think about it, i think your/my brain might overheat 16:11:39 ais523, Well I'm trying to solve some bugs with an OS X system. And I was going to copy some nice fonts while I was at it. 16:11:47 but the issue in question seems LDAP related. 16:11:47 heh 16:11:50 ehird: this in combination with your comments about Windows 7 is really quite worrying 16:11:59 my brain overheats all the time i'm using mac 16:12:17 nooga: yep, Macs use psychic cooling 16:12:19 guys I'm going to work for Microsoft, AnMaster's working on OS X 10.7's hardware-lockdown code 16:12:25 ehird, basically: waking up from sleep or logging in takes several minutes. System logs show lots of LDAP related errors. 16:12:31 we're being paid millions 16:12:35 fans would be too noisy, so instead they channel excess heat into the user's brain 16:12:35 AnMaster: How odd. 16:12:38 AnMaster: What did the user do? 16:12:45 Don't say they didn't do something, they did :P 16:12:46 it drives them slightly mad, it's how the reality distortion field works 16:12:57 ehird, the account is *supposed* to sync to work place sync server. 16:13:01 ais523: Subject: Cease and desist 16:13:06 Dear Ais 523, 16:13:07 ehird, except it doesn't. Due to failing to connect. 16:13:13 You are revealing Apple patented trade secrets. 16:13:21 We must demand you cease immediately. 16:13:22 ehird, any idea where I can look up exact meaning of error codes for apple system daemons 16:13:22 And desist. 16:13:23 Love, 16:13:26 Apple Lawyers 16:13:33 AnMaster: paste the error? 16:13:37 This is from Console.app, right? 16:13:49 /Applications/Utilities/Consol 16:13:49 e 16:13:51 ehird, the error is found using the system log viewer thingy. 16:13:54 Right 16:13:57 and the OS X is localized 16:13:58 Show it? 16:14:00 Ah. 16:14:01 so names doesn't match 16:14:10 But, yeah, paste the error 16:14:13 ehird, the error is in English, let me find a way to transfer it 16:14:18 AnMaster: Cmd-C 16:14:29 Then Cmd-V in a pastebin 16:14:38 wow, mag-heut has a massive barrier to entry 16:14:38 ehird, right... 16:14:38 AnMaster: what version is this? 16:14:41 10.4 or 10.5 16:14:44 ehird, 10.4 16:14:46 AAAAAAAAAA! 16:14:52 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa 16:14:53 10.4's netinfo/ldap stuff drives me crazy 16:14:58 ais523: eh? 16:15:05 Fuck 16:15:05 this might be even more fucked up than 10.5 16:15:09 I ran out of Mathematica 16:15:20 Slereah: you're using a trial at work? 16:15:21 lol 16:15:24 now to manually type it in 16:15:28 AnMaster: why? 16:15:30 use a pastebin 16:15:31 in order to register, you have to a) register via a CAPTCHA-based web form b) simultaneously, or close to it, email the admin c) reply to the activation email with actual sentences, not just a few words d) once you've passed that human-based Turing Test, you still have to post something ontopic within 24 hours 16:15:31 the url... 16:15:34 oh 16:15:45 ais523: :D 16:15:49 ehird: You only get some licence per day, IIRC 16:15:56 ehird, lots of repeated: http://pastebin.ca/1407412 16:15:59 Slereah: WAT 16:16:03 exact same message about 200 times 16:16:07 ais523: wow, that board is IPB 1.1.2 16:16:07 But fuck that shit nigger, I'll finish it at home 16:16:08 before it allows login anyway 16:16:10 ehird, ^ 16:16:10 that thing's really ancient 16:16:15 the oldest i've seen in the wild is 1.3 16:16:24 1.1.2 was when IPB was free, IIRC 16:16:33 I had its source from the internet archive a while back 16:16:35 ehird, I tried google without much luck other than recommending re-configuring the ldap setup 16:16:38 which didn't help. 16:16:42 AnMaster: hmm 16:16:49 so it would be useful to know what the error code meant. 16:16:50 AnMaster: why not just change settings at random? 16:17:01 in theory, it'll start working then if you change things for long enough 16:17:16 AnMaster: Open terminal, "man DirectoryService | grep 14002" 16:17:21 at least, if there's a finite number of settings, each with finitely many entries 16:17:26 ehird, right 16:17:26 tell me what the error name is 16:17:30 ah wait 16:17:30 eDSOpenNodeFailed = -14002 16:17:35 AnMaster: is the server down? 16:17:48 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:17:59 that reminds me of Windows at the University, if the server's down it freezes for 8 minutes at login 16:18:03 ehird, hrrm... I don't *think* so. but I guess it is possible it is related to the network. 16:18:03 which isn't really ideal for lectures 16:18:05 maybe 16:18:06 wow, mpx3.virginska.orebro.se uses mac os x server 16:18:13 AnMaster: http://mpx3.virginska.orebro.se/ has a stock index.html 16:18:19 is that right? 16:18:21 ask $user 16:18:35 well I don't think $user knows. 16:18:47 but yes it seems wrong 16:18:49 AnMaster: err why is $user syncing to a server he doesn't know 16:19:02 ehird : Know what's worse? 16:19:09 The licence is shared by everyone 16:19:22 So if someone wastes it, no Mathematica for you 16:20:08 wow 16:20:09 ehird, because workplace set it up. And the mac support guy stopped working there so no one know how to fix anything any more. $user asked me to check out why computer was so slow at login and wake up from sleep and I traced it down to this LDAP issue. 16:20:14 os x as a server 16:20:22 they've got balls of steel 16:20:23 Reason $user asked me was she knows I'm geeky. 16:20:29 nooga: it's just unix/apache 16:20:33 with some gui tools 16:20:41 apple's server hardware is pretty nice, so. 16:20:48 AnMaster: hmm. 16:20:55 AnMaster: well, this syncing isn't happening, right? 16:21:01 and nobody's yelling from the rooftops? 16:21:03 why not just reomve it 16:21:04 *remov 16:21:05 e 16:21:07 it makes about as much sense as running a Darwin server, which makes almost as much sense as running a FreeBSD server 16:21:13 ehird: probably that'll annoy $workplace 16:21:26 ehird, actually it seems to happen just now. It said "refreshed credentials from LDAPv3 server" in the log. 16:21:30 AnMaster: you're from orebro? 16:21:32 just half a minute ago. 16:21:56 ais523: if it wasn't syncing it can't annoy them any more 16:22:06 nooga, Something like that yes. Or close to. 16:22:10 could be if it would have started syncing again later 16:22:18 ehird, however sleep still makes it lock up. 16:22:34 even though it *did* just sync 16:22:40 AnMaster: been there, and near 16:22:42 :D 16:22:52 AnMaster: hmm. 16:23:07 oh, yay, bogons accept migration authority codes 16:23:12 their script just doesn't recognize it on our line :D 16:24:13 ehird, I already considered bad wlan (there are around 8 reachable networks here...) But connecting it by ethernet doesn't help. 16:24:25 AnMaster: scrap all ldap config, reconfigure? 16:24:38 if you can't copy/paste a password look for a .plist in ~/Library, it'll be in plaintext 16:24:46 ehird, tried that before I first mentioned it in channel. I don't have access to server side. 16:24:58 I mean on the client 16:24:58 ehird, except it isn't set up to use either ssl or auth. :( 16:25:03 (awful) 16:25:15 yet it synced. Hm. 16:25:25 :-(... it seems my ISP is "LLU'd" 16:25:26 whatever that is. 16:25:28 ehird: IPB 1.3 was free 16:25:32 local loop unbundling, go fig 16:25:34 Deewiant: you sure? 16:25:42 ehird: Quite. 16:26:05 the internet archive shall settl this raging dispute 16:26:24 ais523: do you know what local loop unbundling is? 16:26:27 Or wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invision_Power_Board 16:26:32 AnMaster: it synched, without SSL or any authentication? 16:26:33 "The last free full version is Invision Power Board 1.3.1, which is not as widespread as 1.3 because of the short available time before 2.0 replaced it." 16:26:39 ais523, yes... 16:26:42 might be fun synching it from somewhere else for fun 16:26:45 One Year License · $69.95 16:26:45 This will give you one year license to use Invision Power Board for one installation on all current and future versions. Selecting this option will also give you discounts on many of the extras for Invision Power Board. At the end of one year your board will continue to run but will be unsupported unless you renew service. More Information... 16:26:50 from 2004 16:26:54 i guess 2 was out by then 16:26:54 ehird, the catalog manager thingy app in Tool Apps (%¤#%&¤ l10n) says contacts are set up to sync too. Address book thing time... 16:26:56 ehird: See above. 16:27:08 AnMaster: Tool Apps = Utilities 16:27:14 almost $70? for a board? 16:27:15 AnMaster: what do the icons look like 16:27:18 that'll be more helpful 16:27:20 ais523: the software 16:27:24 yes 16:27:29 ais523: IPB is targeted at enterprise lackeys :) 16:27:32 ehird, Like a map, With a compass on. 16:27:32 ah, ok 16:27:33 ehird: Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_loop_unbundling 16:27:34 and businesses 16:27:38 I was wondering why it was so expensive 16:27:39 didn't used to, but us now 16:27:44 I know the University just use phpBB 16:27:46 ais523: vbulletin is more expensive 16:27:47 when they need one 16:27:55 which is awful, but I suppose cheap and good enough 16:28:01 AnMaster: most boring area of sweden 16:28:08 ais523: vbulletin is $100/year 16:28:14 nooga, I disagree. 16:28:25 $180 for indefinite, though, so I don't know why people would buy a one year license 16:28:38 AnMaster: proove it 16:28:45 AnMaster: directory utility 16:28:54 yay, my email's back up 16:28:57 AnMaster: I mean remove all syncing then put it back 16:29:35 ehird, yes I turned off all that. And removed the ldap server from the auth search path. That did temporarily solve the speed issue. 16:29:46 with login and wakeup 16:29:50 and of course made errors go away. 16:29:51 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:29:55 AnMaster: Problem exists between server and server imo :-P 16:30:04 ehird, yes I suspect this is on server side... 16:30:45 ehird, hm different errors in the log now Let me pastebin again. 16:31:12 AnMaster: if you can't figure it out I can connect via vnc and take a look 16:31:16 (OS X comes with a vnc server) 16:31:19 hah 16:31:25 & client 16:32:50 ehird, http://pastebin.ca/Ha1Dr-fT (pass: blah) 16:33:01 (reason for pass is I wanted to try that feature) 16:33:09 Yeah that totally seems like a server issue 16:33:15 But I can try and fix it if you want :P 16:33:15 yeah 16:33:29 (Reason for that is I want to try OS X's vnc :-P) 16:33:42 ehird, nah. I'll tell $user what to tell the incompetent admins at $workplace instead :P 16:33:57 os x's dev tools come with such weird things 16:34:00 and I wouldn't trust you with that access. 16:34:07 ehird, such as? 16:34:15 apps that look like they were ported from mac os classic that let you tweak internal cpu registers and shit 16:34:25 oh that one, right. 16:34:29 reggie se 16:34:40 I think it had a different name on classic 16:34:42 right? 16:34:45 Maybe 16:34:52 but I do remember an app like it 16:35:34 it also comes with a few apps that are basically complete commercial quality stuff 16:35:45 like quartz composer (max/msp for graphics) and au lab 16:35:50 it's weird 16:35:55 it's a load of bric-a-brac 16:36:10 Quoth CHUD Remover.app: 16:36:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:36:17 You are about to remove any and all CHUD files from your system. 16:36:19 How helpful. 16:37:20 hm... 16:37:45 this macbook has not AltGr I just noticed. And I need to write a key that needs it on Swedish keyboards. 16:37:48 $ to be specific. 16:37:53 * AnMaster wonders how. 16:37:56 AnMaster: Use option. 16:37:58 or shit 16:38:00 shift 16:38:03 or option-shift 16:38:06 gl 16:38:12 "You are about to remove any and all CHUD files from your system. No, this isn't a chance for you to change your mind, this is just a prediction." 16:38:12 ah 16:38:17 ais523: :D 16:38:33 CHUD... what was it 16:38:36 I don't know 16:38:37 :D 16:38:39 name sounds familiar. 16:38:47 something like oprofile wasn't it? 16:38:59 Computer Hardware Understanding Development Tools 16:38:59 A set of software tools, collectively Computer Hardware Understanding Development Tools (CHUD Tools) measure software performance on Mac OS X, to aid in optimizing. Also provides hardware system benchmarks 16:40:01 -!- coppro has joined. 16:42:03 this macbook keyboard is horribly small to type on. 16:42:07 IMO. 16:42:11 what model is it? 16:42:14 well tiger, I suppose 2006 16:42:15 13"? 16:42:15 uh 16:42:25 yeah that's gonna be a bit cramped. 16:42:25 I don't have a ruler handy 16:42:33 and I don't know how to find out from inside os x 16:42:45 AnMaster: system preferences → display → examine resolution :-P 16:43:13 "display" was translated to "monitors" (in plural yes) 16:43:16 weird 16:43:23 well 16:43:24 it's displays 16:43:25 1280x800 16:43:38 AnMaster: 13" 16:43:41 right 16:44:15 first item in apple menu says "2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo" btw 16:44:28 AnMaster: stop making me feel inferior, that's the speed of mine :D 16:44:38 haha 16:45:14 ooh seems user have used both firefox 3 and firefox 2 at once. I wonder what that did to the profile folder... 16:45:41 aa! firefox on mac? 16:45:47 my unintegration senses are tingling 16:46:35 Chipset Model:ATY,RadeonX1600 ← I really wanna know why s/I/Y/ 16:46:42 ehird, yes. User said "Lotus Dommino Web Access" (used at work) had issues in safari so she switched to firefox. It also had issues in firefox3... so she had to go to firefox2 when she needed to use it. 16:46:49 go figure. 16:46:59 ha 16:47:08 ehird: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26745 16:47:34 Deewiant: that's not very helpful, I want to know why ATI did it 16:47:43 "This is because ATI chose to identify themselves as ATY in the ROM." 16:47:45 indeed 16:47:46 why 16:48:00 i guess Ys are cheaper :-) 16:48:08 ATI's stock symbol was ATYT 16:48:18 Or ATY 16:48:24 oh 16:48:34 Array TechnologY ... Todo? 16:48:43 Probably ATI was taken? 16:48:54 wow user has a thunderbird "in" mailbox that is over 500 MB after selecting to compress the mail box (which took several minutes) 16:48:59 lol, it's ATI Technologies and ATI stands for Array Technologies Incorporated 16:49:02 Array Technologies Incorporated Technologies 16:49:10 AnMaster: Mine is over a gig, I think 16:49:19 Or maybe that's mail+news 16:49:22 Deewiant, huh. You don't move it to other directories? 16:49:26 AnMaster: mine's 794MB 16:49:28 but keep all in the inbox 16:49:30 ? 16:49:38 i have no directories, but I do have labels :-P 16:49:45 ehird, well in thunderbird I meant. 16:49:48 or similiar 16:49:56 gmail works differently of course 16:49:57 well, my inbox is about 2k messages 16:49:59 agora is about 10k 16:50:04 b is uh 3k? 16:50:09 nomicron is just a few hundred 16:50:13 so agora+b will be the bulk 16:50:17 modulo attachments in the inbox 16:50:21 AnMaster: I used to not, but I do now so maybe it's smaller 16:50:32 ehird, I have two mails in my inbox atm, the rest is in various relevant directories. 16:50:47 Inbox weighs in at 116M 16:50:56 AnMaster: I assume you delete messages you're done iwth 16:50:58 *with 16:51:12 Inbox's subdirectories are 30M 16:51:36 ehird, I delete spam and old svn/cvs/whatever commit mailing list mails. But I keep all other, organized in a directory structure. 16:52:00 Oh, you're obsessive compulsive with hierarchy because you don't have a good mail search engine 16:52:01 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 16:52:02 Got it 16:52:18 ehird, no, I do have a good handling system. filters for mailing lists. 16:52:24 And yeah, news take 1336M 16:52:36 97% of the mail I get is from mailing lists. 16:52:45 AnMaster: so if you're in 500 irc channels, how many tens of thousands of mailing lists 16:52:49 that is, 97% of non-spam 16:53:07 ehird: I prefer hierarchical sorting to searching 16:53:08 ehird, less than 1000. Just 7 mailing lists. 16:53:17 "Experience unmatched 3D gaming performance designed and fine tuned for ultimate entertainment. Crank up the settings and get ready to frag like you’ve never fragged before. Prepare to DOMINATE!" 16:53:19 lol@ati marketing 16:53:20 ehird, I really don't like mail 16:53:33 ehird: that would play rather badly with a defragmenter 16:53:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:53:40 ais523: wat? 16:53:54 ehird: bad pun 16:53:58 oh 16:53:59 frag. 16:54:00 ha. 16:55:52 Any ideas for what DIRF should do when rerunning them due to TRDS? 16:55:54 about defragmenter... 16:56:01 +instructions 16:56:13 what about HFS+. I remember it got very fragmented pre-OS X 16:56:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB0JodKgZ0A&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgame%2Eamd%2Ecom%2Fus%2Den%2Funlock%5Fphenomiiblack%2Easpx&feature=player_embedded 16:56:35 In which we overclock a cpu to 6.5ghz and have to run it at near absolute zero 16:56:38 so bad I have a copy of "Norton Utilities" that includes a defragenter... Somewhere. 16:56:39 Because we are batshit insane 16:56:39 :D 16:56:51 for classic mac os 16:57:31 lol@ita marketing? 16:57:35 comment: 16:57:36 "i hope you intel fanboys are embarresed amd just beat intels ass in overclocking and in 3d mark by alot i hope to see more than 8+ghz in the future from amd but hey man amd is getting back on it`s feet and starting to beat intel once again and the day amd owner kicks the intel owners ass will come " 16:57:51 amd are better than intel because if you run amd processors at absolute zero they can have higher ghz 16:57:58 the stunning intelligence of youtube! 16:58:00 Don't read youtube comments 16:58:02 They rot the brain 16:58:09 Deewiant: but in the most hilarious way possible 16:58:31 Personally, I usually get headaches 16:58:45 yeah but they're funny headaches 16:58:55 Deewiant, Agreed. If we are going to argue about Intel and AMD lets at least do it with proper grammar. Technical relevance is an extra bonus. 16:58:56 No, not really :-P 16:58:57 ;P 16:59:19 AnMaster: don't YOU have a liquid nitrogen/helium cooling set up at home and a wanton attitude to expensive hardware? 16:59:20 pfft 16:59:28 you're not a real enthusiast! 16:59:32 No ideas for DIRF? 16:59:46 Deewiant: wuz dirf 16:59:53 "Hope to see the 7ghz barrier gone soon." 16:59:55 Good god you morons 17:00:03 // 0x44495246: DIRF 17:00:05 // Directory functions extension 17:00:14 They'll be arguing for 7ghz when we're running 5 billion core computers @ 3ghz 17:00:17 ehird: ^. 17:00:21 Deewiant: kay 17:00:53 ehird, hm I have one of those bluetooth apple mice here. Two buttons but none visible on top. And a ball instead of a wheel. Now I just noticed that unlike most optical mice it doesn't seem to have led to light the surface. just tested by lifting it up and holding it a few mm above the surface and looking in between. 17:00:58 any idea how it works. 17:01:03 AnMaster: that's a mighty mouse 17:01:09 also, it's a different tracker technology 17:01:12 ehird, right. Didn't remember the name. 17:01:13 the wired one uses regular optical stuff 17:01:19 and what is the tracker technology. 17:01:29 Deewiant: Do LVM snapshots after each DIRF operation so you can time-travel better. 17:01:31 im looking it up 17:01:38 fizzie, augh 17:01:41 AnMaster: laser tracking 17:01:46 as opposed to the wired's optical trackng 17:01:51 fizzie: I'm not even keeping track of what came out of stdin, so no. 17:02:01 ehird, so shouldn't one see a small dot from the laser on the surface? 17:02:13 or am I misunderstanding something 17:02:13 Deewiant: You should also do snapshots of the user's mental state. And then rewrite it when TRDSing around. 17:02:20 AnMaster: you do 17:02:22 well 17:02:23 no you don't 17:02:24 but 17:02:26 look above the power switch 17:02:29 that green light is the laser, I think 17:02:39 fizzie: I don't need to, TRDS affects the user's mental state heavily all by itself. 17:02:46 ehird, no it is the "power is on" light I think 17:02:52 both, I think. 17:02:55 it changes blinking pattern when out of range 17:03:00 hm k 17:03:03 AnMaster: and the two buttons are touch-sensitive 17:03:06 it's one button 17:03:12 that's why you have to lift your left finger off to right click :\ 17:03:13 sux 17:03:30 interesting 17:03:40 I think the "laser mice" use infrared laser diodes. At least that's what infallopedia says. 17:03:47 the wheel is nice for moving around big images 17:03:52 ehird, I don't see any surface on it that would work as touch sensitive 17:04:01 but it would explain why I can't right click! 17:04:05 AnMaster: :-D 17:04:11 it takes a few tries 17:04:24 ehird, the mouse is too small too. 17:04:26 for my hand. 17:04:42 AnMaster: gawd, how big are you? do you go "fe fi fo fum"? :-D 17:05:00 ehird, anyway, that is one thing Microsoft managed. Good mice. Microsoft intellimouse, usb. 17:05:12 i haaaaaaaaate ergonomic mice 17:05:32 i just like a little dip on the sides and a curved surface Like God Intended. 17:05:40 ehird, err what. It isn't that much ergonomic. Since it is a variant that works for both left and right hand 17:05:40 This logitech I-forget-the-model-already is laser-based; although it always annoys me a bit when they compare it to "optical mice", given that's it's really not very non-optical, they've just changed the light source. 17:05:42 also low scrollwheel since I rest on it :P 17:05:44 and I tend to switch a lot. 17:05:48 fizzie: there could be some testing bias there. say, if all the < infrared diodes killed the testers 17:05:59 ehird, high scroll wheel :) 17:06:00 very nice 17:06:07 AnMaster: not if you rest your finger on it 17:06:10 as opposed to switching to it 17:06:21 because then you get issues with your hands. 17:06:23 due to the bending 17:06:25 ehird, well 3 fingers on top of the mouse does work, but it is cramped. 17:06:57 (Also I don't think there's any rule saying that a laser light needs to be a tightly focused beam that would form a dot; from what I've read, the point just seems to be that you get interference effects (== better surface-tracking) whenever you have coherent light coming out. 17:06:58 lol on that 6.5ghz they used ddr2 memory 17:07:21 silly 17:07:30 :-D 17:07:45 IMO they should use FB-RAM 17:07:50 (fully buffered) 17:08:14 sadly it seems like that went out of fashion currently. 17:08:18 There was a rather gruesome eye safety instructions text about laser-related experiments in the physics lab course manuals. It was all "this wavelength laser won't cause eye reflexes to happen so it'll cook your eyeball, whether this one just burns your retina so fast you won't have time to blink". 17:08:22 AnMaster: what advantages? 17:08:37 fizzie: "whereas", I assume 17:08:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Buffered_DIMM 17:08:53 ehird: AnMaster is actually a mountain in Skåne 17:09:13 AnMaster: what's the advantage over ddr3 17:09:19 In 2007 Intel Developer Forum, it was revealed that major memory manufacturers have no plans to extend FB-DIMM to support DDR3 SDRAM. Instead, only registered DIMM for DDR3 SDRAM had been demonstrated.[15] 17:09:19 ah 17:09:21 ehird, tl;da 17:09:32 didn't ambrosia? 17:09:36 answer 17:09:38 I had an Intellimouse 3.0 which indeed was a good mouse, at least up to the point it developed a serious double-clicking-all-the-time syndrome (after years of use). 17:10:13 ehird, also you could combine it with ddr3 as far as I remember. 17:10:31 when it comes to the speed bit and such 17:10:34 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Safe-ASCII-Love.aspx 17:11:35 comex: O_O 17:11:37 http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200904/dh.gif 17:11:40 Oh, the embarrasment! 17:11:51 ais523: OBSCURE REFERENCE BUDDIES *HI5* 17:12:09 "The color of the optical mouse's light-emitting diodes varies with each model. -- Some models' diodes even change color, cycling through colors of the rainbow for instance." Wow, that's... flashy. 17:12:17 fizzie: :-D 17:12:33 Deewiant: regarding TRDS, i think that argument to chdir should be stored somewhere; mkdir and rmdir should be no-op or reflect according to its original result. (i'm not good at TRDS however) 17:13:03 The red light in the Intellimouse was really really bright; a lot brighter than some later visible-spectrum optical mouse. 17:13:04 lifthrasiir: In theory yes, if you want to be accurate 17:13:10 lifthrasiir: I don't :-P 17:13:14 ;) 17:13:14 wat 17:14:32 "Backlit keyboard (British) & User's Guide (French)" — Apple store configuration option 17:14:39 All my british keyboard manuals are in french. 17:14:42 i'm considering this strategy: tag every command with unsafe flag (and by default every command is unsafe); safe command is safe to execute of course. 17:15:24 when re-executing unsafe commands it doesn't execute them at all, it just replays recorded Funge space changes and IP/delta changes, and so on. 17:15:37 ehird: well obviously the french need the instructions more, seeing as they aren't used to the keyboard 17:15:44 I was always scared to look at optical mice because I thought they used lasers :/ 17:16:02 except some actually do 17:16:04 (though as i stated above this strategy is not compliant to spec. i'm not sure.) 17:16:31 lifthrasiir: If you record all the changes then that should work, yes. 17:16:51 * ehird stares into optical mice 17:16:56 and python is enough reflective to do this. :p 17:16:58 Just try and fuckin' burn my iris! :| 17:17:09 Er. 17:17:10 Retina. 17:17:22 * oerjan watches ehird get both scarred and scared. 17:17:26 python is reflective enough to burn my retina if I use a laser mouse with it 17:18:24 ehird, anyway you know what fb-ram is now right? 17:18:30 Yes. 17:18:42 and why it was scrapped? 17:18:54 no 17:19:18 ehird, Intel management messup as far as I remember when I learnt about it about a year ago. 17:19:18 "FB-DIMMs absolutely kill memory latency" 17:19:20 — anandtech 17:19:45 ehird, that is not correct. 17:19:52 Tell that to the figures. 17:20:09 they decrease memory latency? 17:20:22 Increase. :P 17:20:36 that is not killing latency :< 17:20:44 ehird: Incidentally, I tested that Logitech Whatever Illuminated Keyboard while picking up other things; it felt scissor-switchey and reasonably pleasant to write on (although all this stuff is so user-centric), although the layout was a bit strange. At least in the fi keyboard layout the backspace wasn't completely tiny; about twice the width of a normal key, maybe a bit smaller than what's common in keyboards around here (which seems to be about the width o 17:20:44 f two adjacent keys, including the gap between them). 17:20:46 * ehird kills comex 17:20:49 there's now more of you 17:21:08 fizzie: hokaydokey 17:21:16 fwiw, I'm not awfully pleased with my apple keyboard 17:21:19 fizzie: did you see that auroraarara thing brushed aluminium-looking one? 17:21:26 fizzie, ffs, try to keep within one line. the effect of doing what you just did is tl;dr 17:21:29 that looked quite nice 17:21:35 AnMaster: fu, I read it 17:21:37 and it was directed at me 17:21:40 and it was helpful 17:22:12 ehird, yes your way of lots of linebreaks is more annoying ;P 17:22:19 i do it 17:22:21 just for 17:22:21 you 17:24:48 http://www.bbc.co.uk/election97/frameset.htm ← HOLY FUCK RETRO 17:25:55 I don't get early warning when I'm going out. But it seems I wouldn't be very twittur-compatible. 17:26:21 ew, the main isp traffic exchange thing in the uk welcomed the pirate bay verdict 17:26:24 go fuck yourselves 17:26:36 harumph 17:26:40 anyway. 17:26:43 lifthrasiir: where's the pyfunge src? 17:27:12 just do hg clone http://hg.mearie.org/pyfunge-0.5/ . 17:27:36 hm 17:27:52 and i think there is PyPI package too: http://packages.python.org/PyFunge/ maybe. 17:28:07 well, that should be http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyFunge/ 17:28:07 -!- comex has changed nick to Quazie. 17:28:20 Quazie: THE TRUTH IS OUT 17:28:35 well, quasi-out 17:28:56 lifthrasiir: do you shrink bounds as well as grow? 17:29:00 yes. 17:29:09 it correctly handles exact bounds. 17:29:17 ok 17:29:22 lifthrasiir: but you only store minimum bounds for the whole space? 17:29:28 not per-line/col or whatever 17:30:14 well... in fact, it doesn't shrink bounds normally, it just update the information necessary to calculate correct bounds (i.e. that per-line/col things) 17:30:24 hmm 17:30:30 the code looks computationally expensive. 17:30:31 and it shrinks bounds only if requested, e.g. by y 17:31:07 there is always a room for improvement, but i have no time to do it atm 17:31:46 right, I pretty much want to optimize for wrapping and exactness 17:32:01 num-of-non-space cells can be calculated at y time 17:32:50 it can possible if right data structure is used. i don't think current one, dict from coordinate to non-space cells, cannot. 17:32:56 can* 17:33:25 mm 17:33:31 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:33:52 this along with the stack overflow in Data.Map is currently blocking hypha :-( 17:34:44 This is not really important :-P 17:35:43 Deewiant: err 17:35:45 I can't parse mycology 17:35:49 thats pretty fuckin important :|| 17:35:51 Yes, that is 17:35:55 But not your "this" 17:36:01 Namely, exact bounds. 17:36:10 I want a correct fungespace :< But kay, I'll make them inexact for now 17:36:52 Deewiant: 17:36 edwardk: ehird: but Data.Map is strict except for he value 17:37:19 ehird: Like I said yesterday, I suspect it's your code's fault. 17:37:27 yeah 17:37:29 I'm stripping it down 17:37:35 what, you're lazily loading funge space? 17:37:38 ehird: Are you forcing the map between inserts? 17:37:39 (or plans to do so?) 17:37:42 Deewiant: also, isn't insertWith' just Map.insert !$ or $! or w/e 17:37:44 lifthrasiir: no no no 17:37:48 i'm trying to make it all strict 17:37:49 :-P 17:38:06 ehird: although you could still get a stack overflow just from the map if you are only looking at it after a heap of changes 17:38:29 or so i think 17:39:13 ehird, one good thing about mac hardware though. Almost silent. 17:39:23 ehird: With const, it actually probably is. 17:39:27 though laptops tend to be quieter so don't know how significant it is. 17:39:52 AnMaster: Yes. 17:40:43 http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/8gbhq/actually_facebook_no_no_i_didnt/c0974oj ← wow privatefreedom is an idiot 17:40:51 ehird, ah I think the issue is partly due to wlan. It is slow with ethernet now. But not nearly as slow. 17:40:58 an1m 17:41:00 ehird, it doesn't seem to connect to the wlan before login. 17:41:02 AnMaster: mm 17:41:27 I guess it is due to needing to unlock the keychain first. 17:41:31 which is done at login? 17:41:34 maybe 17:41:43 cat :: [Input] -> [Output] 17:41:43 cat xs = GetChar : (let (GetCharR c : xs') = xs in PutChar c : cat xs') 17:41:44 ↑ stream based IO is awesome (this will scare oerjan) 17:42:17 hardly 17:42:36 it's not as type safe as monads though 17:43:53 yar 17:44:20 also no EOF handling i assume 17:44:24 ehird: My guess is you're building up a thunkpile of Map.inserts which is what overflows your stack 17:44:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:44:49 Deewiant: Yeah. 17:44:54 Any ideas as to a solution? 17:45:36 ehird: Don't build up a thunkpile like that? 17:45:45 Deewiant: No shit sherlock 17:45:45 seq, bang patterns, whatever 17:46:05 ehird, when waking up from sleep (system logs): http://pastebin.ca/1407508 17:46:08 that is a bit strange 17:46:12 ehird: Given that you're using crap like {-# UNPACK #-} I figured you'd know how to force a thunk 17:46:15 I mean for the wireless network sure, but for lo? 17:46:17 Deewiant: I do know 17:46:45 ehird, "mDNSResponder: Repeated transitions for interface lo0 (127.0.0.1); delaying packets by 5 seconds" seems like a very odd error to me. 17:46:56 ehird: So do it? 17:47:11 Deewiant: Kay. 17:47:31 -!- Dewi has joined. 17:50:14 "EFI is an average/cheap mobo maker at best (not to say unreliable, just average in function, and performance). They are no DFI, or ASUS, not even close." 17:50:15 LOL WAT 17:52:24 http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200904/mandelbrot.xml 17:52:45 Deewiant: Hot. 17:52:58 ehird, where was that idiot quote from 17:53:07 AnMaster: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&cp=2 17:53:20 AnMaster: comments of the article dissing fb-ram 17:53:46 Deewiant, http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200904/mandelbrot.xml is just some unicode stuff with #FFF and such after? 17:53:46 wut 17:53:59 AnMaster: get a decent browser 17:54:05 ehird, firefox 3 17:54:08 uh 17:54:10 let me test in safari 17:54:14 make it know what xslt is? 17:54:18 i'm sure ff3 does xslt. 17:54:24 3.1b3 does 17:54:26 yep, it does 17:56:12 ehird, ah it needs javascript... 17:56:18 ..................... 17:56:20 seems odd for xslt 17:56:24 What. 17:56:34 No it doesn't 17:56:38 NoScript just blocks XSLT 17:56:50 Awesome. NoScript the suck. 17:57:05 Deewiant, any reason why 17:57:07 Why does that make it the suck? 17:57:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:57:24 and what Deewiant said 17:57:24 "+ XSLT stylesheets are regarded as active content and blocked by 17:57:24 default on untrusted documents and/or from untrusted origins 17:57:38 Deewiant, ok makes sense. 17:59:33 For instance that Firefox crasher a month back would be blocked by NoScript. 18:07:47 oerjan: the hard thing about implementing that streamio is, um, implementing it :D 18:08:17 gosh 18:09:06 *Main> run cat 18:09:06 [GetChar,PutChar hello 18:09:07 'h',GetChar,PutChar h'e',GetChar,PutChar e'l',GetChar,PutChar l'l',GetChar,PutChar l'o',GetChar,PutChar o'\n',GetChar,PutChar 18:09:10 getting there 18:09:19 what's that? 18:09:31 nooga: crazy scary old haskell IO system implemented in modern haskell 18:09:37 O.o 18:10:11 ehird: Did you get your Befunge parser working? 18:10:31 Deewiant: Are you teasing me :P 18:10:42 No, I'm asking if you even tried :-P 18:10:47 I am thinking. 18:10:50 About it. 18:10:55 Also I code in spurts. 18:10:59 heh 18:11:07 It certainly seems that way 18:11:58 still i think befunge can be written as a linear program with jumps 18:12:14 Write a befunge-to-unefunge compiler 18:13:45 http://imgur.com/2Dqu.png 18:14:53 clever. 18:15:13 I started from "lastly" 18:15:24 I did it wrong, too. :/ 18:15:32 i went first → lastly → then 18:15:34 since lastly was biggar 18:18:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:18:33 Deewiant: I've ripped out all bounds code to start again 18:19:05 Deewiant: What's the most hugest befunge file existing? 18:19:11 actually, any big text file would be appreciated 18:20:07 ehird: mycology.b98 18:20:24 Deewiant, isn't fungot larger 18:20:25 AnMaster: ' that wouldn't be very nice, i'm fnord this is always done however fnord fnord: fnord those that have feathers, and bite, and those that have feathers, and bite, and those that have whiskers, and scratch. 18:20:26 I'm not sure 18:20:27 If you want big files I'm sure you can find some on your own 18:20:31 AnMaster: Not hardly, I don't think 18:20:32 ^source 18:20:32 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 18:20:41 fungot is tiny 18:20:41 Not even close by the looks of it 18:20:42 ehird: ' the question is, what is the best way out of the difficulty is to place a red counter. 18:21:02 Firefox sez that is 23 937 bytes 18:21:10 my parser shall read hamlet 18:21:10 ehird, what was the key combo to boot a mac into single user shell 18:21:11 Mycology is 120 198 18:21:15 AnMaster: dunno. google it 18:21:48 agh 18:21:50 Largest Project Gutenberg text file is puny 32 megabytes, titled "U.S. Copyright Renewals 1950 - 1977"; although it is possible I removed the Human Genome Project books from my local mirror. (Those are split in very many pieces anyway.) 18:21:51 to parse, or not to parse, that is the question 18:21:52 hamlet isn't big enough 18:21:56 fizzie: plz to link? 18:22:00 Also it looks like half of fungot is comments, so it hardly counts 18:22:01 Deewiant: 15. no children are fnord no fnord are fnord all rabbis are jews. some people are unhealthy. 18:22:07 Cmd-S 18:22:13 fungot: Yeah, fnord fnord to you too. 18:22:14 Deewiant: " with this you make a kind of folk who have no horror of a joke. 18:22:20 ^style 18:22:20 Available: agora alice* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp 18:22:22 :D 18:22:28 You could also go ahead and use more than one Project Gutenberg text. 18:22:47 ehird: If mycology already overflows your stack what do you want something bigger for? 18:23:05 ehird: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11800/11800-8.txt but it is the boring. 18:23:08 Deewiant: No, mycology overflows my stack with bounds checknig 18:23:10 which I've removed 18:23:18 So I want to overflow it with just this 18:23:21 Ah, it doesn't otherwise 18:23:21 to see what the issue is 18:23:27 I see. 18:23:38 fizzie: You froze my firefox :-( 18:24:20 550M residential and counting 18:24:28 Er, resident 18:24:32 That's rather strange; it is, after all, just 32 megs of text. 18:24:38 666M 18:24:39 Residential zone. 18:25:03 Deewiant, konq decided to open it in kwrite and the progress dialog had a cancel in it 18:25:06 so I was able to stop it 18:25:10 "31.19 MB" in fact according to the metadata in http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/11800 18:25:11 Deewiant, file is 35 MB 18:25:15 err ok 18:25:35 32702551 bytes; I'm not sure where 35 megs would come from. Strange rounding. 18:25:51 *Hypha.Fungespace> foo <- readFile "/Users/ehird/Code/hypha/11800-8.txt" 18:25:53 dun dun dun dun 18:25:57 fizzie: 35 to the closest 5. 18:26:07 ehird: huh. 18:26:10 For the powers-of-ten megabyte, yes. 18:26:12 Deewiant: that's rather inaccurate for 0-5... 18:26:25 so it loads correctly? 18:26:27 *Hypha.Fungespace> fs `seq` () 18:26:30 ehird: But it's not for 0-5, it's for 32702551. 18:26:30 lifthrasiir: it's loading now 18:26:35 w/ let fs = parseFungespace foo 18:26:41 this may take a while 18:27:03 fizzie, I misread. 18:27:15 AnMaster: dthat file— 18:27:18 and I clicked cancel quite quickly. 18:27:19 t file 18:27:23 how does cfunge 18:27:25 handle that file 18:27:29 laggg 18:27:29 which one 18:27:30 this was a mistake 18:27:36 AnMaster: big 35mb one 18:27:40 Second-longest book would've been 20 megabytes, "The Entire Project Gutenberg Works of Mark Twain". Much more interesting to read. 18:27:43 load time 18:27:48 AAAAAAA 18:27:51 my ram 18:27:51 ehird, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11800/11800-8.txt you mean? 18:27:54 my poor ram 18:27:56 AnMaster: yes 18:28:00 ehird, I'm not going to try it in cfunge. 18:28:07 why not 18:28:09 just parsing 18:28:09 you have more ram than me 18:28:17 yes but AnMaster 18:28:18 ehird, there is no "just parsing" option in cfunge. 18:28:19 i use haskell 18:28:20 ehird had a little ram 18:28:23 haskell is memory intensive 18:28:27 AnMaster: so comment out interp(foo) 18:28:53 ehird, once I got this mac to work perfectly ;P 18:29:10 is it your mac now :-P 18:30:02 ehird, no. 18:30:08 Deewiant: is there a non-shit portable hashtable for haskell 18:30:11 ehird, but still. I like to try to get it to work. 18:30:11 or not portable w/e 18:30:14 cfunge residential size went to something like 2.2 gigabytes to do that file. 18:30:22 fis@eris:~/hut/lktm/gutenberg$ (echo '@'; cat ./1/1/8/0/11800/11800-8.txt) > tmp.txt 18:30:22 fis@eris:~/hut/lktm/gutenberg$ time ~/inst/cfunge/cfunge/build/cfunge tmp.txt 18:30:22 real 0m26.077s 18:30:24 is there non-shit anything for haskell? 18:30:26 Deewiant: cuz maps are just too biggety 18:30:31 lament: _|_ 18:30:35 my middle finger is a bottom. 18:30:42 (_|_) 18:30:44 haskell is ass 18:31:28 ehird, I mean when $user is in the group "relatives". 18:31:31 ehird: Use what AnMaster does, shouldn't be hard to write an FFI for it :-P 18:31:38 Deewiant: :|||||||||||| 18:31:50 fizzie: so got any smaller files 18:31:52 That's strange; /usr/bin/time's memory-usage-reporting does not seem to much work. 18:31:55 fis@eris:~/hut/lktm/gutenberg$ /usr/bin/time ~/inst/cfunge/cfunge/build/cfunge tmp.txt 18:31:55 24.57user 1.32system 0:26.33elapsed 98%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 18:31:55 0inputs+0outputs (0major+630781minor)pagefaults 0swaps 18:31:56 fizzie: like, 1mb-3mb would be nice 18:31:57 fizzie, it loaded it in 26 seconds? heh 18:32:05 ehird: A 30-meg file is not exactly typical funge code anyway 18:32:07 Deewiant, how fast does ccbi load it 18:32:44 It'll take me 2 mins to download it first 18:32:51 Deewiant, ok 18:33:25 And I can't be bothered to time "just loading" properly so I'll just replace the first char with q :-P 18:33:26 ehird: There are quite many 1-3 MB files. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12606/12606-8.txt is 2.91 megabytes. 18:33:32 "The Great Speeches and Orations of Daniel Webster by Webster and Whipple" 18:33:37 that seems more malleable 18:33:44 I love the word malleable 18:33:45 it's so malleable 18:34:11 Deewiant: I added a single line with @ for that time test; I guess you saw it happening there, too. 18:34:23 ehird, cat /dev/urandom | tr -Cd -- '-[:lower:][:digit:]\n\\/ ;",.+*[]{}^<>@`_|:%$#!'\'"${FPRINTINSTRS}" | tr -d 'mhlior' | head -n $(( 1024 * 1024 * 3 )) >> fuzz.tmp 18:34:26 something like that 18:34:30 well 18:34:40 that was adapted from the fuzz test script I use 18:34:44 *Hypha.Fungespace> butt `seq` () 18:34:46 Here we go. 18:34:48 obviously remove "${FPRINTINSTRS} 18:35:15 (and the matching " at the end too yes) 18:35:34 *Hypha.Fungespace> butt `seq` () 18:35:34 *** Exception: stack overflow 18:35:36 \m/ 18:35:56 cfunge eats around 2.2 gigs of RAM and takes 35.4 s user time 18:36:01 wow 18:36:07 that is quite a bit of ram 18:36:11 Deewiant: What, is my cfunge faster? 18:36:22 fizzie, how old is it 18:36:25 Might be older / not optimized. Beats me. 18:36:36 Deewiant: Residential size was ~2.2 gigabytes here too. 18:36:36 Deewiant: Okay, so now I'm going to strictify it. 18:36:40 Fungespace BDSM 18:36:42 AnMaster: No clue, really. :p 18:36:45 fizzie, exact bounds or not? 18:36:54 meh 18:36:55 AnMaster: Not that new. 18:36:58 Mine has them on. 18:37:02 fizzie, ah 18:37:10 well exact bounds does have some overhead. 18:37:21 both for memory and speed. 18:37:26 revno: 462. 18:37:34 CCBI is still working on it at 900M; growing a lot slower than cfunge. 18:37:59 fizzie, last revision is 752 18:38:10 Yes, I haven't been updating this. 18:38:22 2008-10-29 or so. 18:38:38 * ehird adds a `seq`. 18:38:46 Still overfloods in my butt. 18:39:17 * ehird changes it 18:39:27 NO DYC 18:39:28 E 18:39:32 updateFungespace p v fs = fs { space = space fs `seq` Map.insertWith' const p v (space fs) } 18:40:27 Hmm 18:40:32 This is the oddity 18:41:30 Maybe I'll just put $!'s EVERYWHERE. 18:42:09 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 18:42:22 Deewiant: think maybe laziness is making my tailc alls not? 18:42:28 Aha 18:42:34 go fs p@(Point x y) (z:zs) = go fs' (Point (x+1) y) zs 18:42:35 where fs' = updateFungespace p (ord z) fs 18:42:37 Bet that's taking stack 18:42:44 * ehird adds fs' `seq` 18:43:04 looks hopeful 18:43:06 YES 18:43:12 it worked 18:43:21 what 18:43:29 ehird, is the data in it correct 18:43:31 dunno 18:43:39 AnMaster: the new fungespace, not yet evaluated, was taking up space on the stack 18:43:45 so I forced it to evaluate it before going on to the next char 18:43:50 ehird, and also I had a working funge space done in less than a day in cfunge. Of course it was a lot more lines. 18:43:52 thus throwing away the old value 18:43:55 and making stack space constant again 18:43:58 it was basic and so on 18:44:01 and I don't care :P 18:44:04 but enough to begin with 18:45:00 ehird, for the funge space: what did you gain by using haskell? Compared to C, Lisp, Python or whatever. 18:45:09 AnMaster: A language I like. 18:45:11 sure for TRDS I can see it. 18:45:27 ehird, will each component take this long, or is the funge-space an exception? 18:45:35 and. Have you looked at hsfunge? 18:45:43 AnMaster: Probably; the fungespace is the thing that stores a lot of data efficiently 18:45:50 And loads very large stuff sequentially 18:45:59 Not exactly Haskell's sweet spot 18:46:02 And no 18:46:08 funktio's site died 18:46:38 I have a copy here, old one I think. 18:47:08 I guess I could tar it up and upload it. Except there is NO license info. Not in the source files. Not in any separate file. 18:47:19 How slow is it? 18:47:20 and I never got this version of it to build. 18:47:29 so I can't answer that. 18:48:19 http://omploader.org/vMWxreg (hsfunge.tar.lzma) 18:48:28 in case you are interested 18:48:31 or Deewiant is 18:48:42 too lzma; didn't unpack 18:48:53 ehird, why 18:49:06 ehird, prefer 7zip? 18:49:07 OS X's autoexpander doesn't do lzma; I suppose I could open a terminal :-P 18:49:28 CCBI is at 13 minutes and counting, using 1.9 gigs of RAM 18:49:29 or maybe compress. 18:49:31 Oh god, no modules or anything 18:49:34 Just a clump of files 18:49:40 Deewiant, so less memory usage but slower 18:49:48 FINGERPRINTS ALL IN ONE FILE 18:49:50 AnMaster: "and counting" 18:49:51 INTERNAL GHC STRUCTURES 18:49:53 OH MY GAWD 18:49:54 Deewiant, yes 18:49:56 AnMaster: Could easily go to 3 gigs, who knows :-P 18:49:57 oh right 18:50:02 Deewiant, ah. 18:50:05 ehird, what 18:50:10 AnMaster: it's awful 18:50:14 ehird, anyway how does one compile it 18:50:23 ghc --make mainfile 18:50:23 AnMaster: ghc --make Main.hs -o hsfunge 18:50:28 ah 18:50:32 lets try that again 18:50:41 Fingerprints.hs:23:7: 18:50:41 Could not find module `Data.Time.Calendar.Julian': 18:50:41 Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 18:50:45 meh 18:50:48 what do I do then 18:50:48 AnMaster: ghc --version 18:50:56 The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 6.8.2 18:50:56 ehird: That doesn't matter 18:51:05 AnMaster: upgrade. even if it doesn't matter. 18:51:14 ehird: HsFunge is older than 6.10. 18:51:18 hm. 18:51:21 then I dunno. 18:51:33 ehird, err the newer ones are *hardmasked* so I'm not going to until I find out why. 18:51:34 * ehird looks at hsfunge's parseFungeSpace; has lol attack 18:51:37 I'd say 'cabal install time' but he doesn't have cabal. 18:51:45 maybe it's so old that Data.Time.Calendar.Julian has moved since... 18:51:46 that is rather different than "testing" it usually means "broken" 18:51:48 Deewiant: he has cabal just not cabal-install 18:51:52 AnMaster: well, ghc 6.10 isn't broken 18:51:55 6.10.2 is out 18:52:00 ehird: No, he has Cabal but not cabal. 18:52:28 AnMaster: I'd like to remind you that gentoo have a good history of thinking they know everything about the packages and in the process breaking them or stating incorrect things about the 18:52:29 m 18:52:46 ehird, examples? 18:52:50 I can't think of any 18:53:01 you don't know about gentoo's terrible relation with upstreams? 18:53:02 wtf. 18:53:15 ehird, [citation needed] 18:53:22 a few packages refuse to fix any bugs from gentoo users because gentoo fuck up their packages 18:53:37 ehird, You mean ion. Right. 18:53:38 hsfunge gets through Mycology with only one bad, in EVAR. 18:53:43 AnMaster: no, others too. 18:53:50 ehird, You haven't heard both sides of the story for ion clearly. 18:53:52 I only know of Ion. 18:53:54 the ion author is a whining bastard who said he'd switch to windows 18:53:58 Supports all but SOCK and TURT. 18:54:02 i don't listen to him 18:54:06 And the Ion developer has about the intelligence of a fly. 18:54:13 ehird, what other examples then 18:54:27 AnMaster: i'm sorry that i don't keep a personal log of bad things i've heard about gentoo. 18:54:29 since we all agree ion author is the fault in that case. 18:54:33 Doesn't do input from console correctly. 18:54:35 it's not very important to me. 18:54:45 ehird, this is definitely a case of [citation needed]. 18:54:48 ehird, so it is basically rumours only. 18:54:49 Ok. 18:54:53 lawl. 18:54:54 pikhq, I agree. 18:54:54 no, not rumours 18:54:57 just forgotten citations 18:55:07 You're the first person to have mentioned this. 18:55:17 CCBI is at 2.5 gigs / 19 minutes. 18:55:25 pikhq, indeed. I think he made it all up personally. 18:55:28 * pikhq nods 18:55:41 I think the hashtable is just degenerating into a linked list. 18:55:44 Deewiant, how the heck do you load into funge-space... 18:55:46 yeah i make up shit about gentoo to satisfy my own perversive hate about it 18:55:47 retards 18:55:55 Deewiant, um you need to resize it then and rehash 18:56:12 AnMaster: I don't resize, the array resizes itself when it feels like it 18:56:18 Deewiant, the cfunge one is set up to do that once it gets too stuffed. Though it already start out pretty large. 18:56:37 It's not even possible to tell a D hashtable what its size should be 18:56:47 Deewiant, indeed. That is what it does too. I enabled the option to do that for the hash library that I use. 18:56:56 oh 18:57:07 Deewiant, I'm able to set mine to a rather large initial size. 18:57:41 Deewiant, anyway, was your cfunge 32-bit or 64-bit? 18:57:46 64 18:58:46 Deewiant, right, changing to 32-bit cells would reduce memory usage and increase speed a lot. 18:58:51 2648M / 23 mins 18:59:10 Deewiant, how do you read the input file. Or is that not a bottle neck at all? 18:59:10 I'll try hsfunge once this is done 18:59:24 Not sure about this version, actually 18:59:30 * Deewiant checks 19:00:00 ah dev-haskell/time 19:00:01 Uses a TypedInput 19:00:07 seems to be what I'm missing 19:00:20 Tango class for reading one byte at a time, buffers internally however it wants 19:01:13 2747M / 25 mins 19:01:39 mhm 19:02:06 Deewiant, so stream IO I guess. 19:02:14 Amusing amount of overhead for 131 megs of data :-P 19:02:24 AnMaster: Yeah, basically. 19:02:35 Deewiant, was the original file 131 MB 19:02:40 I thought it was 31.something 19:02:47 31.something * 4 = 131 19:02:53 ah right 19:03:10 2830M / 27 mins 19:03:35 I wonder if the GC is scanning that AA... 19:04:05 Okay so 19:04:07 My parser parses 19:04:11 Hoorj 19:04:15 Now I need to grow bounds 19:04:18 Exact bounds can go FUCK THEMSELVEs 19:04:26 :-) 19:04:26 Deewiant: does mycology test for exact bounds 19:04:27 (say no) 19:04:30 Not yet 19:04:32 good 19:04:34 put it in mycoedge 19:04:40 i wanna pass mycology :D 19:05:08 I'd rather not but I might have to to avoid it being a major pain 19:06:08 2945M / half an hour. Sheesh. 19:06:39 hehe 19:06:47 Deewiant, can you see where the overhead is 19:06:48 % runhaskell -Wall -O2 Main 19:06:50 doo doo doo 19:06:55 DOOOOOOOOOO DOOOOOOOO 19:06:58 dododododododo 19:07:00 DADAOOO! 19:07:02 AnMaster: How could I 19:07:07 % runhaskell -Wall -O2 Main 19:07:07 Point {pX = 0, pY = 0} 19:07:08 Point {pX = 74, pY = 48944} 19:07:22 AnMaster: Not from the code, certainly :-P 19:07:22 Deewiant, um. I don't know. memory profiler? 19:07:33 Haha 19:07:37 If I profiled this it'd take 30 days 19:07:44 fair enough 19:07:46 valgrind + cfunge 462 + that 31-megabyte file: 19:07:48 ==918== Warning: set address range perms: large range [0x43f7b030, 0x4bf7b030) (undefined) 19:07:59 fizzie, what the hell does that mean 19:08:02 I never seen it before. 19:08:04 (It's still running; I'm actually more interested in the malloc statistics.) 19:08:10 Me neither. 19:08:26 3028M / 32 mins 19:08:29 fizzie, I think it will end up mallocing a lot in cfunge_mempool.c at least 19:08:35 Ah, there they came: 19:08:36 ==918== malloc/free: in use at exit: 1,813,071,464 bytes in 8,257 blocks. 19:08:37 ==918== malloc/free: 16,469 allocs, 8,212 frees, 2,548,451,304 bytes allocated. 19:08:37 fizzie, that much I can tell. 19:08:39 Hey AnMaster, Deewiant, fizzie: I parse mycology in 0.025-0.026 seconds 19:08:53 fizzie, that many frees? Odd 19:08:55 Including loading the file and printing out the min/max bounds 19:09:01 and startup time 19:09:03 25ms ain't bad 19:09:26 Hmm 19:09:27 Point {pX = 179, pY = 791} 19:09:28 ehird, what about doing that bit in cfunge on your system. Remember my computer is slower. So hard to compare. 19:09:31 Mycology has 796 lines 19:09:34 Maybe the > is broken 19:09:39 I only have four gigabytes memory here; it's barely enough for these 32-megabyte enterprise Funge programs. 19:09:47 fizzie, hah 19:09:51 AnMaster: It takes something like 6ms to RUN Mycology. 19:09:56 fizzie, what was the book btw. 19:10:09 ehird, differently loaded system? 19:10:12 or bad compile. 19:10:12 3086M / 34 mins 19:10:13 fizzie: Feh, my enterprise befunge programs are so big I'm upgrading to 12GB of memory! 19:10:17 AnMaster: Wat? 19:10:19 Seems to be growing linearly. 19:10:33 AnMaster: "U.S. Copyright Renewals 1950 - 1977" 19:10:42 AnMaster: It's just that cfunge is ridiculously fast and my code isn't. 19:10:44 ehird, wait ms. 19:10:48 hm 19:10:48 Right 19:10:48 :P 19:11:10 AnMaster: Still, that's less than 10x of your running to do my parsing 19:11:12 Not baaaaaaaad 19:11:29 CCBI is about 6-7x as slow as cfunge when running Mycology with fingerprints off 19:11:35 Deewiant: So correct me if I'm wrong, but all I need to have accurate fast bounds is to keep the minimum point updated, right? 19:11:48 Incidentally, the university people have recently updated their main shell server to something that has a ridiculous amount of power for running a couple of IRC clients; it's a dual-processor Xeon E5450 (so 8 cores) and has 64 gigabytes of RAM. (Okay, so "couple" here means "couple hundred", but anyway.) 19:11:55 Deewiant: e.g. involving slowdown.b98 19:12:08 ehird: For precise bounds you need to know both min and max. 19:12:12 fizzie: E5450 ... what architechture thingy 19:12:17 total used free shared buffers cached 19:12:18 Mem: 64315184 30313024 34002160 0 760520 25333160 19:12:23 Deewiant: Right, but not per line or anything to have slowdown not slow down? 19:12:23 slowdown.b98 needs precise bounds. 19:12:35 ehird, cfunge on mycology here: 0.034s with clean env, output to /dev/null and non-exact bounds. For exact bounds add ~0.010s. For env and output to terminal it is a bit more complex, varies more. Generally the time then is something like 0.070s or so. Depends on what terminal emulator I use though. 19:12:35 ehird: No, you just need precise min/max. 19:12:41 Deewiant: Yay 19:12:46 That's not too hard then 19:12:51 of course turning off fingerprints make it even faster 19:12:53 DUH 19:13:02 I don't know anything else except what I read from /proc/cpuinfo. 19:13:11 I turn off fingerprints just because cfunge doesn't support them all, so the comparison is fair. 19:13:50 40% / 37 minutes. 19:13:54 $ env -i PATH=/bin:/usr/bin TERM=$TERM /bin/bash --norc --noprofile -c 'time build_fast/cfunge -F mycology/mycology.b98 > /dev/null' 19:13:54 real 0m0.021s 19:13:54 user 0m0.012s 19:13:54 sys 0m0.006s 19:13:59 there I turned off fingerprints too 19:14:03 and non-exact bounds 19:14:12 $ env -i PATH=/bin:/usr/bin TERM=$TERM /bin/bash --norc --noprofile -c 'time build_opt/cfunge -F mycology/mycology.b98 > /dev/null' 19:14:12 real 0m0.027s 19:14:12 user 0m0.017s 19:14:12 sys 0m0.008s 19:14:16 same but exact bounds. 19:15:01 Deewiant, yes that is quite fair. Except I should use a profile feedback build for best results ;P 19:16:39 Oh dear, now hypha is terribly slow. 19:16:39 3300 M / 40 mins. 19:16:52 ehird, why 19:17:00 AnMaster: I made bounds growing actually work. 19:17:02 Now it's just chugging. 19:17:05 Maybe it's inflooping 19:17:06 ah 19:17:10 Deewiant: that 31M file? 19:17:12 I could actually run out of memory before this completes :-P 19:17:12 I think it's inflooping maybe 19:17:14 lifthrasiir: Yep 19:17:19 | x < minX fs = updateFungespace p v fs{ minX = x } 19:17:19 | x > maxX fs = updateFungespace p v fs{ maxX = x } 19:17:20 | y < minY fs = updateFungespace p v fs{ minY = y } 19:17:22 | y > minY fs = updateFungespace p v fs{ maxY = y } 19:17:24 Don't see much wrong with that 19:17:29 did you fixed the first character to q then? 19:17:35 ehird: maxY at the end 19:17:38 lifthrasiir: Yep 19:17:39 Doh 19:17:45 okay, i'll test with pyfunge 19:17:49 Yay it's instant again 19:17:58 Er 19:18:02 "qroject Gutenberg's Copyright Renewals" 19:18:04 Now it thinks it has 794 lines 19:18:06 Oh wait 19:18:08 maybe my editor is wrong 19:18:17 Deewiant: how many fungelines does myco have? 19:18:17 795 lines. 19:18:21 794 or 796 19:18:21 According to wc. 19:18:25 um 19:18:26 Deewiant: ok, 794 is right 19:18:27 since I start at 0 19:18:27 So probably 794. 19:18:31 remember first line is 0 19:18:36 but most editors use 1 19:18:40 Deewiant: longest line is at col 179? 19:18:41 starting at col 0 19:18:42 that always confuse me 19:18:49 ehird: About right, yes. 19:19:00 Now it takes 0.026 exactly, all the time 19:19:02 ehird, check with y output. It says "BAD" if it is wrong. 19:19:04 ehird: You'll find it right near the start. 19:19:09 The longest line, that is. 19:19:17 So I've lost the 0.001s speed gain I soemtimes had :P 19:19:19 Deewiant: kay 19:19:20 AnMaster: Er, dude. 19:19:22 I don't do funge yet. 19:19:25 Just fungespace. 19:19:28 There's a comment there saying that it has to be the longest line. 19:19:29 ehird, in a reference interpreter 19:19:34 With fungot there's extra-confusion since the actual code is loaded at (x=0,y=100) instead of the origin. So there's an offset, plus the off-by-oneness of editor line numbers. 19:19:35 fizzie: 20. some crocodiles, when not hungry, are amiable; but some are not. " some x are not-y, and some are not. 19:19:39 ehird, like cfunge or ccbi 19:19:44 don't use them :) 19:19:48 That the least point containing a non-space cell is ( -1 -1 ) 19:19:48 That the greatest point, relative to that point, is ( 180 795 ) 19:19:49 there 19:19:57 ^style 19:19:57 Available: agora alice* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp 19:20:06 ehird, that is off by one since it wrote to -1,-1 19:20:11 Anyway, hypha loads it in imperceptible time 19:20:11 3407M / 44 mins 19:20:12 That's great 19:20:17 Fuck exact bounds for now. 19:20:18 Grows by 8M every time it decides to 19:20:19 Deewiant, how much ram do you have 19:20:27 AnMaster: 7983M according to htop 19:20:33 Deewiant: Do you think wrapping logic belongs in fungespace.hs 19:20:37 Fungespace.hs that is 19:20:38 ehird: No 19:20:39 Deewiant, almost 8 GB then 19:20:42 mhm 19:20:46 AnMaster: 8 ramgbs 19:20:49 Hey, it completed! 19:20:53 2670.21user 19:20:59 ehird, yes 1000-based 19:21:00 I assume 19:21:10 Deewiant, fun 19:21:12 well, it quickly starts thrashing and my mplayer process got stopped. 19:21:15 Deewiant, max ram usage was? 19:21:16 cfunge had 613288 minor pagefaults, CCBI 875756 19:21:26 maybe i should try it later... :S 19:21:35 Deewiant, that isn't such a large difference. 19:21:36 AnMaster: I missed it but I guess around 3410-3450 since I last said 3407 19:21:40 Fine you fuckers 19:21:42 AnMaster: Yep, it isn't 19:21:43 Deewiant: Now run it under valgrind to get allocation statistics. :p 19:21:44 I'm going to parse that fucking file 19:21:47 fizzie: Nno. 19:21:48 Er wait Deewiant how much ram did it use 19:21:51 Deewiant, and you said your cfunge was 64-bit cells though 19:21:57 ehird: 3410-3450 like I said. 19:21:57 while ccbi use 32-bit ones 19:21:58 hm 19:21:58 Also link to it 19:22:05 Deewiant: Right so about 1gb more than I have 19:22:08 Deewiant, in that case the difference is larger in fact. 19:22:12 LYNK? 19:22:29 To wat 19:22:50 The hueg file 19:22:54 /lastlog gutenberg 19:22:56 I want to feel pitiful about my ram 19:23:00 That's nice I don't use irssi :P 19:23:10 Deewiant, what about a 32-bit cfunge build. Since 2.2 GB is more than what I have 19:23:10 AnMaster: Well yeah, the overhead of CCBI is obviously a lot bigger. 19:23:20 ehird: So do the equivalent. 19:23:22 so I'm not going to try 19:23:25 Deewiant: Non. 19:23:26 ehird: If your client can't, upgrade. 19:23:26 None 19:23:32 ehird: Upgrade to irssi. 19:23:47 irssi has a gui now does it? oh no it emulates a shitty one with vt terminal codes 19:23:53 sry i don't use that kind of sw :) 19:24:14 Then press pageup a few times, or whatever your client does to read lines earlier than the one you just typed 19:24:22 ehird, even erc has lastlog 19:24:24 so does xchat 19:24:29 and every client I know of 19:25:05 well, not that filesystem irc one naturally. But all major ones. 19:25:21 Alright, latest cfunge, 64-bit cells: 2.2 gigs / 24.4 secs 19:25:33 Deewiant, and what about 32-bit cells 19:26:02 1945M / 21.5 secs 19:26:09 Deewiant, exact bounds or not 19:26:16 The non-buggy version for me 19:26:26 turning off exact bounds would reduce it quite a bit I suspect. 19:26:40 Mem usage? 19:26:45 Deewiant, yes and time too 19:26:56 Fine, exact bounds / 64-bit 19:26:58 Er 19:27:00 Inexact 19:27:10 should be compared to 2.2 GB one then indeed. 19:27:18 2.5 gigs / 23.3 secs 19:27:26 fizzie: what's that ipv6 tunnel that listed ipv6 isps? 19:27:34 Deewiant, what 19:27:35 Inexact / 32-bit 19:27:37 AnMaster: Yes. 19:27:46 ehird: Somewhere in SixXS's pages. 19:28:08 http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native 19:28:37 2271M / 21.0 secs 19:28:39 Deewiant... Could you pastebin the output from ./cfunge -f there... Because that extra memory made no sense. 19:28:43 AnMaster: Inexact increases memory usage by 300M 19:28:54 assuming you are on r753 19:28:58 Yes 19:29:19 http://www.pastie.org/private/6kyhirehdwzelidahsyda 19:29:21 Deewiant, that increase in memory usage makes no sense. Sure you didn't confuse the two options 19:29:23 For the 32-bit one 19:29:27 sixxs are down >_< 19:29:28 AnMaster: Very sure. 19:29:36 AnMaster: Are you sure /you/ didn't? :-P 19:29:50 Maybe an #ifndef where an #ifdef should be or vice versa 19:29:52 Deewiant, it is the opposite of the results I get when I did memory profiling on cfunge here. 19:29:55 That sixxs url worked for me just fine. 19:29:57 but let me check 19:30:20 Maybe their IPv4 side is down. :p 19:31:01 fizzie: what's sixxs's magic ipv4 to ipv6 domain 19:31:03 i'll view it via that :P 19:31:18 ipv4.sixxs.org 19:31:19 IITC 19:31:20 *IIRC 19:31:45 sixxs.net = the page describing sixxs, sixxs.org = the tunnel itself 19:31:54 Hmm, *that* doesn't seem to answer to me. 19:32:05 fizzie: obviously, you're on IPv6 19:32:09 and it's an IPv6 to 4 translator 19:32:21 ais523: Uh, I do have IPv4 connectivity too here. 19:32:25 oh 19:32:28 http://www.sixxs.net.ipv4.sixxs.org/ works :-D 19:32:32 :-DDDDDDD 19:32:35 well 19:32:36 badly 19:32:37 broken images 19:33:18 Deewiant, doesn't match my results. 19:33:29 W/ever 19:33:43 for mycology: 3.336 peak ram usage with inexact bounds. 6.522 for exact ones. 19:33:51 in MB 19:34:57 Deewiant, In other words: I'm unable to reproduce the bug and for now I recommend that you remove the build directory and try again on a clean checkout. 19:35:12 if you are sure you didn't confuse it 19:35:17 How do I clean checkout 19:35:25 Deewiant, sec.. 19:35:29 How do I shot web?! 19:35:38 How is checkout formed 19:35:41 Deewiant, what about: 19:35:42 bzr branch http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/cfunge/trunk 19:36:09 They need to do way instain bzr> 19:36:34 Deewiant, well I'm too lazy to tell you to do bzr st and revert any changed files 19:36:36 :P 19:36:43 Deewiant, I assume you are doing out of tree build. In tree build is unsupported as noted in the README. 19:37:25 so if you are doing that it should just be removing build directory to get it clean 19:38:25 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 19:38:37 who kill thier branches 19:38:37 Default CMake settings + Release build: 2203M / 24.42 19:38:48 because these branches can't frigth back, it was on the rss this morning 19:38:55 Deewiant, ? 19:38:57 a 19:38:58 ah* 19:38:59 a committer in bzr who had kill his three patches 19:39:01 hm 19:39:09 my pary are with the programmers who lost his patches 19:39:10 Deewiant, that would be with exact bounds indeed. 19:39:12 i am truly sorry for your lots 19:39:23 Toggled EXACT_BOUNDS to OFF: 2532M / 23.10 19:39:48 Deewiant, do the difference go the same way for mycology? 19:40:01 How can I get mem usage for something that runs so fast? 19:40:15 top only samples once per second or whatever 19:40:19 Deewiant, valgrind --tool=massif and do ms_print on the generated file 19:40:32 valgrind changes program behaviour 19:40:35 But whatever 19:40:48 Deewiant, what about /usr/bin/time 19:40:54 hm no 19:40:54 Doesn't show mem usage 19:41:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:41:28 Deewiant, man page says it can with a different format string 19:41:30 let me check 19:41:41 Meh 19:41:43 So it can 19:42:40 Except that it fails 19:42:49 Says 0 19:42:49 just noticed that hm 19:43:05 it started to look at it but then it disappeared 19:43:05 indeed 19:43:08 THE HORRORS OF FAST PROGRAMS 19:43:13 AnMaster: "where available" 19:43:17 Probably not available on Linux. 19:43:19 Okay so I have a fungespace YAY AM HAPPY!! 19:43:20 ehird, I tried on a slow program too, so irrelevant 19:43:23 There is a Ubuntu bug report about it. 19:43:26 Deewiant, well that leaves valgrind 19:43:29 Now, I need to write an Interpreter data structure. 19:43:30 with massif 19:43:45 "it" being time and resource usage showing zero. 19:43:50 IZ MASSIF 19:44:03 I'm sure it's doable on Linux, the /usr/bin/time people just haven't bothered. 19:44:23 15 minutes later, pyfunge read 80% of the file and became very slow 19:44:34 its memory is now at 1.5GB 19:44:37 AnMaster: With valgrind it's 3442744 for inexact bounds and 6785328 for exact (second column, tail -n1) 19:44:49 Deewiant: So is the stack stack just int** then? 19:44:51 So no, it doesn't go the same way as it apparently does 19:45:02 hm 19:45:10 ehird: Isn't it more fun to figure this kind of stuff out yourself? :-P 19:45:17 Deewiant, well... you said top only updated slowly right? 19:45:25 ehird: Besides, you're Haskell so it's Stack (Stack Int) 19:45:25 Deewiant: Sure, I just don't like implementing basic concepts completely incorrectly 19:45:31 Deewiant, maybe both use more and you managed to catch then in an odd way 19:45:33 just a theory 19:45:34 57651 Python 0.6% 13:04.08 1 14 3183 1319M+ 188K 1311M+ 1462M 19:45:37 hmm, 19:45:41 Deewiant: Yeah, where stack = mutable array in IO, of course. 19:45:44 them* 19:45:49 AnMaster: I doubt it, for such a big difference 19:45:50 Well. Can you get efficient arrays outside of IO in hs? 19:45:54 Deewiant: Just valgrindalyze the 31-megabyte file; it didn't take more than a minute or so to run it. 19:45:54 ehird: ST. 19:46:01 Deewiant: Pure. 19:46:06 Like, when you throw away the old value it turns into just [x] = y 19:46:23 If it's pure it copies every time since it has to be, y'know, pure. 19:46:32 (Disclaimer: I didn't use any --tool=massif thing.) 19:47:08 Deewiant: no, ghc optimizes pure shit 19:47:11 Deewiant, replace that q with 'a,a,>< 19:47:17 and check after it printed a 19:47:20 if you copy & change a pure data structure and throw away the old one it optimizes it to a mutation 19:47:25 then kill it with ctrl-c 19:47:30 ehird: With arrays? 19:47:37 Deewiant, that should help making sure the measurement is stable 19:47:37 Deewiant: that's what i'm asking you 19:47:42 ehird: I doubt it. 19:49:16 ==30334== malloc/free: in use at exit: 2,140,095,696 bytes in 8,467 blocks. 19:49:23 ^ exact bounds. 19:49:50 (And 64 bit) 19:50:02 And ==30334== malloc/free: 16,941 allocs, 8,474 frees, 2,880,720,576 bytes allocated. 19:50:15 fizzie: And you tricked me, it took over 2 mins. 19:50:34 Deewiant, the latter being inexact ones? 19:50:40 Deewiant: Think I should use a slowarray or an IOarray? 19:50:46 AnMaster: No, they're from the same run. 19:50:49 heck, it takes a minute per 1000 lines and i finally get tired of it. 19:50:52 Deewiant, ah 19:50:56 lifthrasiir: :-D 19:50:59 1228000 19:50:59 Deewiant, so what about inexact ones then 19:50:59 ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^\Quit 19:51:00 real 27m26.597s 19:51:00 user 12m38.005s 19:51:00 sys 0m39.870s 19:51:12 AnMaster: Did you miss "took over 2 mins"? 19:51:12 lifthrasiir, ^C^C^C? 19:51:15 AnMaster: It is running. 19:51:15 (SIGINT didn't work apparantly) 19:51:18 Deewiant, yes I did 19:51:20 sorry 19:51:30 ==30687== malloc/free: in use at exit: 2,081,686,560 bytes in 8,203 blocks. 19:51:30 ==30687== malloc/free: 16,415 allocs, 8,212 frees, 2,817,066,400 bytes allocated. 19:51:42 and it parsed 1228000 of 1575000 lines 19:51:50 Deewiant, that is less for inexact 19:51:51 so... is there any smaller file? :p 19:52:02 AnMaster: Yep. 19:52:02 lifthrasiir: There's a three-megabyte file mentioned later. 19:52:04 Deewiant, so where did you get that reverse behaviour from. 19:52:08 AnMaster: htop. 19:52:10 Deewiant, I can't reproduce it locally. 19:52:19 Deewiant, ok, I gues it is a htop bug or something. 19:52:37 Deewiant, interesting that exact bounds doesn't have a large memory overhead. 19:52:40 GAH! WHY DOES ALSA HATE ME? 19:52:46 pikhq, it does? 19:52:48 cat /proc/asound/cards 19:52:51 --- no soundcards --- 19:53:12 AnMaster: RES = "The non-swapped physical memory a task has used" according to man top. 19:53:13 * pikhq points at lspci, then points at lsmod, then points at his alsa configuration... 19:53:14 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12606/12606-8.txt "The Great Speeches and Orations of Daniel Webster by Webster and Whipple" is 2.91 megabytes. 19:53:14 pikhq, load the correct kernel driver then. 19:53:24 Deewiant, hrrm. 19:53:31 well I can't explain it. 19:53:36 Beats me, maybe it's just the wrong value to be looking at. 19:53:44 Deewiant, unless cfunge was swapping? 19:53:45 \shrug/ 19:53:51 AnMaster: I don't have swap. 19:53:55 hm ok 19:54:08 Well actually I have 256M but it's pretty much never in use. 19:54:18 pikhq, alsa "configuration"? 19:54:22 pikhq, what? 19:54:25 14 of it is in use currently, probably due to these enterprisey funge apps. 19:54:26 for me it works out of box 19:54:30 /etc/asound.conf 19:54:43 Though I've not touched it at all. 19:54:47 pikhq, cat: /etc/asound.conf: No such file or directory 19:55:14 pikhq, you use gentoo right? What package installed it 19:55:21 alsalib? 19:55:28 Oh, installed asound.conf? 19:55:31 yes 19:55:44 That's not installed by a package; that's only used if you want a custom ALSA configuration. 19:55:54 pikhq, ah, why do you want that then! 19:55:58 /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf contains the default config file, which loads /etc/asound.conf. 19:56:06 (if it exists) 19:56:47 pikhq, is your /etc/asound.conf empty then? 19:56:53 if not try temporarily removing it? 19:56:57 Yeah. 19:57:02 That's one thing I tried. 19:57:03 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:57:15 pikhq, what did you do before it stopped working 19:57:21 rsize=185M, vsize=232M, but it takes much after reading all the file... hmm. 19:57:28 Upgrade my kernel, using the same config as my previous kernel. 19:57:34 And reboot. 19:57:35 (yes, i'm testing with 12606-8.txt) 19:57:36 lifthrasiir, is that the 32-mb file in pyfunge? 19:57:52 -!- olsner has joined. 19:57:58 no, 32MB file got very slow and i forced to terminate it. 19:58:49 since i have less than 1GB of working, not-thrashing-proof memory it became very slow 19:58:50 * pikhq looks at his kernel config some more 19:58:56 it's only 32 mb, wimps! 19:59:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 19:59:24 ehird: remember that python stores every integer as 20-byte-or-so struct in the heap... >_< 19:59:34 wait python boxes integers? 19:59:40 lol@python' sucking 19:59:41 s 19:59:42 yes. unlike ruby. 19:59:42 lifthrasiir, right 20:00:03 lifthrasiir, err doesn't it only for large ones 20:00:05 lifthrasiir: did guido say that boxed integers were too magical or confusing or something 20:00:05 :D 20:00:09 er 20:00:12 unboxed 20:00:14 though python 2 caches some small integers 20:00:25 AnMaster: nope 20:00:26 lifthrasiir, are you using 3.x 20:00:29 it's all heapside 20:00:34 AnMaster: no, 2.6.1 20:00:36 AnMaster: Nobody uses 3. 20:00:40 ehird, python 2.x has small and large integers. 20:00:45 from the C API side 20:00:47 I know. 20:00:48 and that some small integers are between -5 and 100, iirc. 20:00:48 Long and Int 20:00:50 right 20:00:52 Small integers are just cached in an array. 20:00:55 lifthrasiir, huh 20:01:01 lifthrasiir: 100 is enough for everyone 20:01:07 and what the hell this program stucks after reading fungespace? curious. 20:01:23 "stucks"? 20:01:26 :-D 20:01:38 I don't know why but I found that particular sequence of words hilarious 20:01:43 "what the hell this program stucks" 20:02:00 Deewiant: Well, you're such a stucker, you would. 20:02:09 "is stuck" "freezes", but I never heard "stucks" as a verb 20:02:11 main = stucks 20:02:18 -- what the hell this program stucks 20:02:21 fizzie: That I found more groan-inducing than anything else. 20:02:21 wouldn't it be stick stuck 20:02:26 stucken? 20:02:28 err no 20:02:30 stucken! 20:02:35 maybe i forgot english grammar for a moment. 20:02:38 stucken: a program that stucks 20:02:38 AnMaster: It's not valid English if you're wondering about that. 20:02:53 isn't it "stick stuck stuck"? 20:02:59 ais523: does your program stucks? 20:03:07 Sticka, stickur, stuckade, har stöckit. 20:03:18 fizzie, meaning? 20:03:23 "They surgically removed 2 feet of colon - I now have a ;" 20:03:34 The same thing in Swedish in an alternate dimension. 20:04:11 sv:"att sticka" is en:"to knit" 20:04:25 also 20:04:25 i have had enough fun with torturing pyfunge; now i have to do some real work. 20:04:37 sv:"att sticka" is en:"to sting" (for example, a bee stinging or such) 20:04:53 and then there is the slang meaning 20:05:15 which is "leave quickly", not the same as "fleeing" exactly 20:05:20 but not too far off. 20:05:31 more controlled I think. 20:06:15 AnMaster: Is it again overloaded so that it has a different declension for different meanings? Like "sticka, stickar, stickade, stickat" for the first and "sticka, sticker, stack, stuckit" for the other, or something. 20:07:01 fizzie, yes. 20:07:10 Right. I don't understand why you people keep doing that. 20:07:17 fizzie, why not 20:07:40 AnMaster: sort of leaving in a hurry? 20:08:05 ais523, kind of yes. 20:08:21 but there are different side-meanings in it I think. 20:08:30 but then I may just be ignorant of them in English 20:08:40 and I can't translate those "side-meanings" really 20:09:58 ais523, lets say someone just pulled(right word?) a practical joke on you, then they might leave in a hurry before they have to flee I guess. This word would work in that situation. For example. 20:10:16 ais523, flee has a lot more "panic" feeling over it. 20:10:22 yep 20:10:28 AnMaster: 23 skidoo? XD 20:10:33 ehird, what 20:10:35 23 skidoo (sometimes 23 skiddoo) is an American slang phrase popularized in the early twentieth century, first appearing before World War I and becoming popular in the Roaring Twenties. It generally refers to leaving quickly, being forced to leave quickly by someone else or taking advantage of a propitious opportunity to leave, that is, "getting [out] while the getting's good." The exact origin of the phrase is uncertain. 20:11:02 ehird, yes, except it is wider than that 20:11:28 but it isn't too far off. 20:14:39 ehird, hey, you might want to do: sudo nvram boot-args="-s" 20:14:45 on your mac 20:14:48 trust me ;P 20:14:58 AnMaster: Starts in single user mode every time? 20:15:03 ehird, yep 20:15:03 Nice try 20:15:14 I don't even know how to get the GUI up from there 20:17:47 Hmm. 'Twould seem that my SB Live! has stopped working. 20:18:01 And for some reason, the driver for my onboard audio didn't load. 20:18:38 "exit" from the single-user shell continues the normal bootup, I think. 20:21:27 pikhq: Open up the case and examine? 20:21:38 ehird: I'll reseat it next time I reboot. 20:22:00 They should make pencil sharpeners that use high-RPM fans or something, so you don't have to do any work. 20:22:43 ehird: they have 20:22:49 ais523: awesome, I want one 20:22:57 for the sheer uselossity! 20:23:06 I've seen them used in businesses before 20:23:25 I had an electronic pencil-sharpener back in third grade, actually. Very neat. I wonder what happened to it. 20:23:38 Maybe "electric" is more correct. 20:24:03 I seem to remember it being rather awfully noisy. 20:24:04 clearly we need a bluetooth pencil sharpener 20:24:16 (I was going to say USB but decided to jump to the next awesome step) 20:24:18 no, a FreeBSD pencil sharpener 20:24:25 ais523: a bluetooth pencil sharpener that runs freebsd 20:24:29 err 20:24:29 ok, compromise 20:24:30 ais523: netbsd 20:24:35 netbsd is the toaster one 20:24:36 and yes, I meant netbsd 20:25:07 ais523: but fans are bad 20:25:14 we need a passively cutting pencil sharpener 20:25:30 "passively cutting"? 20:25:35 yes. 20:25:44 It could use some sort of controlled acid thing. 20:26:32 lasers 20:26:35 YES 20:26:36 obviously 20:26:43 hyper fan-like cutting lasers 20:26:55 lasers+ graphite? 20:27:03 no no 20:27:10 I sense many "my pencil's on fire!" yells in the future of this channel. 20:27:10 shut up. 20:27:25 I knew someone who set their "pencil" on fire. 20:27:27 Don't ask. 20:27:39 well, burning the pencil into a point would be one way to sharpen it 20:27:42 oh 20:27:43 I don't even know how to get the GUI up from there <-- SystemStarter 20:27:51 ehird, but why do you want that 20:27:54 ;P 20:28:21 ehird: also, have you not considered simply undoing the command that forced it into single user mode? 20:28:32 ais523: nope :P 20:28:37 i wish intel macs used openfirmware 20:28:42 AnMaster: anyway, single user mode is a bad idea: 20:28:51 yes, single user mode is a bad idea in general 20:28:52 your point? 20:28:56 first, that means you do everything as root, which is insecure 20:29:13 and second, single user means you can't use the user system for sandboxing 20:29:25 ais523: you are kidding, right? 20:29:30 you do know he was joking, right? 20:29:40 I'm never sure, with AnMaster 20:29:54 ais523, yes of course 20:30:27 ais523, anyway there are uses for single user mode. Accurate profiling results for example. 20:30:39 quite a pain to do that though 20:30:40 On the subject of breaking "pencils": http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/the-redhat-package-mangler 20:30:45 for simple profiling 20:30:53 using single user mode for profiling isn't something I even thought of 20:31:04 why not just use a per-application profile timer? 20:31:10 and second, single user means you can't use the user system for sandboxing 20:31:14 that makes no sense 20:31:19 you can su to an user 20:31:24 in single user mode 20:31:31 yes, but then you're stuck as that user and can't be root as well 20:31:40 or does single user mode have multiple terminals? 20:31:58 ais523: sudo -s, beotch 20:31:59 ais523, per-application is inaccurate if you are doing IO stuff. Which causes stuff to happen in kernel. 20:32:01 and so on 20:32:01 just ^D 20:32:04 I must be the only person who likes ELER 20:32:11 ELER? 20:32:13 ehird, ELER? 20:32:19 everybody loves eric raymond 20:32:22 eric s raymond that is 20:32:33 http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond 20:32:48 (Here's one I made [two minutes] earlier: 20:30 ehird: On the subject of breaking "pencils": http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/the-redhat-package-mangler ) 20:33:03 (Everybody Loves Eric Raymond is a web comic depicting the very real lives of Richard Stallman, Eric Raymond and Linus Torvalds as accurately as comedically possible. 20:33:04 Their real lives, which include living together in a house, with dynamic dimensions, without their wives or girlfriends. Also, they always wear the same clothes. And don’t move their eyes much.) 20:33:17 ehird, hm seems SystemStarter is not for modern OS X 20:33:26 AnMaster: it may be some launchd stuff 20:33:40 ehird, yes that is what I meant. 20:36:55 ehird, single user mode has two processes: launchd and shell 20:36:57 interesting 20:37:06 lanchd has pid 1 20:37:09 yes 20:37:10 so it is init clearly 20:37:14 launchd = init + cron + anacron + at + ... 20:37:32 + daemontools 20:37:37 ehird, bloated 20:37:43 AnMaster: no, orthogonal 20:38:02 hahah 20:38:06 mac os X has man init 20:38:09 but no actual init 20:38:18 % man init 20:38:18 No manual entry for init 20:38:21 10.4 20:38:22 ... 20:38:29 Tiger sux dick :P 20:38:38 right 20:39:04 ehird, I prefer linos 20:39:07 lions* 20:39:51 AnMaster: have you ever heard of a cat called Public Beta? 20:39:52 me neither 20:41:14 ============ 20:41:15 Statistics 20:41:15 ============ 20:41:15 Spent: 10105 ticks 20:41:15 Encountered: 91516 instructions 20:41:18 Executed: 82692 standard instructions 20:41:20 Executed: 161 fingerprint instructions 20:41:22 Forked: 25 IPs 20:41:25 Stopped: 40 IPs 20:41:27 Travelled to the past: 7 IPs 20:41:29 Deewiant: what's the io array again 20:41:30 Travelled to the future: 12 IPs 20:41:33 Arrived in the past: 20 IPs 20:41:35 Time stopped: 16 times 20:41:40 wow 20:41:45 IOArray? What? 20:41:50 haskell 20:41:56 What about it? 20:42:02 ehird, mac os x by default has a serial console set up 20:42:04 AnMaster: MycoTRDS 20:42:04 :D 20:42:10 Deewiant: what's it called :P 20:42:16 Deewiant, I was going wow over serial console 20:42:17 ehird: IOArray, like I said. 20:42:18 on OS X 20:42:19 !!! 20:42:20 ehird: Do you have docs? 20:42:24 AnMaster: :-D 20:42:26 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/Mac_OS_X_10.1_Puma_screenshot.png ← i wish current os x looked like this 20:42:28 Deewiant: Yes :P 20:42:32 ehird: Read them. 20:42:39 check /etc/ttys 20:42:41 on OS X 20:42:53 Deewiant: ~/.cabal/share/doc vs /usr/local/gdfgdfg/dfgdfgdfg/dfgdfgdfg :- 20:42:54 P 20:43:04 there is a fax one wth 20:46:09 Deewiant: /usr/local/share/doc/ghc/libraries/index.html 20:46:10 lovely. 20:47:27 My /usr/share/doc seems to weigh 600 megabytes; that's quite heavy. 20:47:40 138M here 20:48:01 gtkmm takes 43M 20:48:14 texlive-latex-extra-doc by itself is 100 megabytes; I wanted to look at a single manual of a single package, and, well... 20:48:26 My /usr/share/doc seems to weigh 600 megabytes; that's quite heavy. <-- 398 MB here 20:48:33 fizzie: I just use CTAN for that :-P 20:48:40 I.e. Google 20:48:46 18M/usr/share/doc 20:48:46 24M/usr/local/share/doc 20:48:47 65M/opt/local/share/doc 20:48:48 Yes, Google is what I usually use as well. 20:48:52 =107MB 20:49:42 before I said that there was one nice thing about mac hardware 20:49:48 the low noise level 20:49:52 correction: 20:49:53 there are two 20:50:03 the magnetic power connector is very nice too 20:50:12 I guess it is only found on laptops 20:50:18 but still extremely nice 20:50:25 ehird, do you like it 20:50:28 My iBook G4 is too old to have that piece of niftitude. :/ 20:50:36 AnMaster: Yes. 20:50:51 The power cable on my iMac is sort of welded in, I couldn't get it out if I wanted to. 20:50:59 Without performing surgery on it. Which I might do when I get the new box. 20:51:05 There's always shiny hardware to raid! Not RAID. 20:51:16 ehird, ok found how to boot correctly from single user mode: 20:51:17 exit 20:51:19 that is it 20:51:59 Deewiant: UVector is sufficiently smart, apparently. Hoorj 20:52:42 You can't resize it purely IIRC 20:53:55 ooh, critical zero-day bug for adobe acrobat reader 20:54:10 cross-platform, and can be fixed by disabling javascript 20:55:19 bbl food 20:55:37 Deewiant: Dammit 20:55:50 ? 20:56:20 No pure resizing 20:56:30 I'm not sure, I could be wrong 20:56:38 Deewiant: If you can resize them in IO, I'll just unsafePerformIO 'er up 20:56:46 I should just use an io array really 20:56:48 brb→ 20:56:51 Just use a list 21:00:41 Performed: 263675 Funge-Space lookups 21:00:41 Performed: 443 Funge-Space assignments 21:00:45 Less than I expected. 21:00:55 (Mycology without fingerprints) 21:01:45 AnMaster: 22:18:36 [Finnish time] "exit" from the single-user shell continues the normal bootup, I think. 21:20:49 fizzie, aha 21:20:52 didn't see that 21:21:06 fizzie, except bluetooth fails to start then :D 21:22:29 Deewiant, you added that logging code just now? 21:22:57 Yep 21:23:48 btw have I mentioned that disable tracing at compile time make no difference on my sempron but makes a noticeable difference on my old pentium3. 21:24:18 I guess branch prediction is not very good on the p3 21:27:34 No, I don't think you've mentioned that 21:49:54 ehird, I just built cfunge as an universal binary. 21:50:10 runs on intel at least. my old mac is too old to test it (pre-os x) 21:50:34 it can dual compile for powerpc and m68k though (fat binary) 21:50:36 :D 21:54:21 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:03:03 I imagine there are many games based on Conway's Life. 22:03:24 "Game" meaning "game that people play against each other". 22:03:34 how would that work for life 22:04:21 One possible mechanic: each player starts with an R-pentomino; every turn, one player kills one of their own pieces, then the Life rules are applied. 22:04:37 pentomino? 22:04:38 When a cell is born, it receives the color shared by two of its parents. 22:05:20 R-pentomino. This pattern: 22:05:21 oo 22:05:22 oo 22:05:23 o 22:05:33 ok... so why the odd name "pentomino" 22:07:04 AnMaster: pent- from Greek "five", -omino from domino. 22:07:12 ok... 22:10:39 * kerlo ponders what extensions should be made to a neural net to make it decent at his Conway's Life game 22:11:37 Say, another Life game is the "intelligent cell" game. 22:12:09 Which can be found at the celebrated eminently famous clickmazes.com. 22:14:42 20:49 AnMaster: ehird, I just built cfunge as an universal binary. 22:14:44 how useless 22:14:54 agreed 22:15:13 i mean, ppc macs are practically dead now 22:15:17 so it's generally a waste of space 22:15:24 ehird, was just testing it 22:15:30 and 22:15:33 they aren't 22:15:41 GregorR moved vps hosts again :D 22:15:41 my old first generation ibook still works 22:15:50 ehird, why 22:15:50 AnMaster: 10.6 may not support ppc macs 22:15:59 ehird, yes I know. 22:16:00 And 'cuz I'm moving to the same host and they're cheap and look good. 22:16:01 but 22:16:10 AnMaster: That's dead. Mac users = early adopters. 22:16:12 why does everyone have to upgrade 22:16:16 ehird, oh damn right 22:16:17 anyway 22:16:22 I don't distribute binaries. 22:16:29 for cfunge. 22:16:32 I used to 22:16:35 but not any longer. 22:17:37 Tail recursion: http://g.imagehost.org/0632/snake.jpg 22:18:26 AnMaster: that ipv6 vps you used was w/ bytemark hosting right 22:18:36 Deewiant: Have you read your SICP today? 22:18:48 I haven't read much SICP 22:18:59 ehird, err 22:19:06 ehird, no 22:19:12 AnMaster: what was it with 22:19:32 ehird, it was with a friend who has a dedi at softlayer 22:19:36 is in fact 22:19:37 ah 22:19:39 it is still up 22:20:00 Bytemark seems to load quite fast from the uk (since they're a uk company) and do ipv6, so that's the main competitor to prgmr for me atm 22:20:08 ehird, so how far do you get in mycology now 22:20:22 AnMaster: I was brb→ until a few seconds ago. 22:20:35 AnMaster: I don't get any BADs, though ;-) 22:21:34 Deewiant: http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9440/snakeonlysf4.png 22:21:36 Read your SICP. 22:23:24 My iBook! You're saying it's dead! You monster! 22:23:54 fizzie: :'( 22:25:52 Deewiant: 22:25:53 stackStack :: [[Int]] 22:25:57 In which I cave in. 22:26:36 :-P 22:27:16 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:27:30 Deewiant: You're right though, I doubt accessing the 458743957345th element of the stack is all too common 22:32:08 Deewiant: 22:32:09 In this document, short stacks are generally notated left to right to mean bottom to top. The leftmost values listed in the documentation are the bottommost and the first to be pushed onto the stack. Long stacks are notated top to bottom, to mean precisely that, top to bottom.. 22:32:11 I am very confused. 22:32:44 What's confusing about that? 22:32:50 Deewiant: Is it saying that depending on the size of the stack it reverses its terminology?! 22:32:52 ‽‽‽‽‽‽ 22:33:13 No, it's saying that depending on the size of the stack it's horizontal/vertical 22:33:18 Oh. 22:34:58 ehird, maybe you should learn to code befunge before you write an interpreter ;P 22:35:01 on the other hand... 22:35:09 writing an interpreter is a good way to learn it! 22:35:18 Nothing to do with coding it, just the spec is worded oddly 22:35:31 I wrote an interpreter for DOBELA and still can't anything besides hello worlds in it 22:35:42 You accidentally the program. 22:35:51 Deewiant: and you had problems with even hello world no? :P 22:35:59 No, hello world is easy 22:36:09 Implementing it was hard because the specs sucked :-P 22:36:21 data Interpreter = 22:36:21 Interpreter { 22:36:22 stackStack :: [[Int]], 22:36:25 ip :: Point, 22:36:26 delta :: Point 22:36:28 } 22:36:30 Lah di di daaaaaah 22:37:04 No concurrency? 22:37:09 Deewiant: O. Tru. 22:37:24 It /is/ optional, you don't have to do it 22:37:38 Deewiant: I plan on implementing all MKRY fingerprints. 22:37:45 Then you have to do it 22:37:47 Yep. 22:37:55 In fact, all fingerprints possible. 22:37:56 Including MKRY. 22:38:24 I wrote an interpreter for DOBELA and still can't anything besides hello worlds in it <-- yes. But befunge is a rather different beast. 22:38:36 Interpreter { 22:38:36 stackStack :: [[Int]], 22:38:37 instructionPointers :: [InstructionPointer] 22:38:39 } 22:38:41 where 22:38:43 InstructionPointer { 22:38:45 ehird, so once ATHR is finished you will implement it 22:38:45 location :: Point, 22:38:46 ? 22:38:47 delta :: Point 22:38:48 ehird: One stack stack per IP 22:38:49 } 22:38:51 Hoorj 22:38:53 AnMaster: Yes. 22:38:55 Deewiant: Oh. 22:38:57 I need a fungespace too 22:39:03 um 22:39:31 ehird, be aware of then (for nesting purposes, not for "is best"): MVRS > ATHR > threads by t 22:39:43 AnMaster: I can rework this code later. 22:39:44 for "is best" you clearly have ATHR > t > MVRS 22:39:47 Haskell's nice like that 22:39:56 ehird, sure you can for most languages. 22:40:01 MVRS's official incarnation is kind of crappy, yeah 22:40:02 stackstack is initially [[]] right? 22:40:07 Deewiant, indeed 22:40:17 ehird, you are violating GPL3! 22:40:19 ehird: No, it's repeat (repeat 0) 22:40:20 :-) 22:40:23 since that is what it looks like in efunge 22:40:27 [[]] 22:40:30 initially 22:40:32 AnMaster: Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 22:40:33 ;P 22:40:39 Deewiant: Isn't there a way to tell if the stack's empty? 22:40:55 Yes, there is, which is why it can't be that. 22:40:55 ehird, I doubt that is enough code for it to be a violation though. To general 22:40:58 http://pastie.org/463114.txt?key=uaxd3mxfem6b43an62w47a Hum di dum 22:41:10 funktio complained about not being to able to initialize to (repeat 0) because of that. 22:41:14 ehird, btw n clears all item on the TOSS 22:41:15 Deewiant: Lawl 22:41:19 Functional bastard :D 22:41:34 "There are no multicharacter instructions in Funge." 22:41:40 Tell that to XHELLOZ 22:42:05 ehird, echnically efunge has support for typed memory btw. I have plans to make a fingerprint that requires typed funge space. 22:42:22 I don't plan to reveal for what yet. 22:42:39 Will you implement it in cfunge? 22:42:46 Deewiant, in efunge, not in cfunge. 22:42:51 Meh. 22:43:07 Deewiant, what answer did you expect ;P 22:43:11 Hmm 22:43:18 I wonder if I should use a map of instructions 22:43:25 Or (foo 'x' = 2) 22:43:35 ehird, if you plan to implement IMAP... 22:43:40 Map makes it easier to do some things 22:43:44 AnMaster: I. Can. Restructure :-P 22:43:49 But yeah, I'll go for a map. 22:43:55 ehird, M. E. H. 22:44:19 ehird, so did you get any good ideas from hsfunge 22:44:28 or was it all crap 22:44:28 No, I'm not reading it for licensing concerns ;) 22:44:39 ehird, you were, saying "OMG" and such 22:44:50 ehird, NIH! 22:44:57 NIH NIH NIH! 22:45:00 Yes, NIH. As in I'd like to learn something,. 22:45:06 s/,\.$/./ 22:45:20 "Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs over swine flu" 22:45:30 Let's order the slaughter of all humans over swine flu 22:45:30 ehird, you will have a hard time implementing most RCS fingerprints then 22:45:34 they are so badly speced. 22:46:06 AnMaster: I've always had the gift of being able to interpret gibbering retards, so I don't think I'll have a problem. MKRY isn't all that vague at all IMO. 22:46:16 (Note: ↑ does not imply I think MKRY is a gibbering retard) 22:46:20 ehird, not that fingerprint no 22:46:21 ehird: It's not so much interpretation as lack of information. 22:46:28 indeed 22:46:41 Deewiant: Yes, but it seems easy to deduce intent from what i've read 22:46:42 There are N different ways to do something and you just have to know the intended one. 22:47:00 ehird: Not always. 22:47:05 Maybe I'm just dense. 22:47:09 err 22:47:13 Deewiant: I can handle *some* ambiguity... 22:47:16 Deewiant, me too in that case. 22:47:33 and TURT is insanely badly speced 22:47:41 Huh? 22:47:43 it doesn't even say if 0 degrees is up or down 22:47:44 Is it? 22:47:48 iirc 22:47:59 H 'Set Heading' (angle in degrees, relative to 0deg, east) 22:48:12 Deewiant: It's from the guy who brought you funge-108 22:48:15 must have confused it then hm 22:48:27 AnMaster: TURT is from Cat's Eye. 22:48:31 he probably thinks C is underspecced 22:48:31 Deewiant, yes! 22:48:36 -!- Quazie has changed nick to comex. 22:48:42 # L 'Turn Left' (angle in degrees) 22:48:42 # R 'Turn Right' (angle in degrees) 22:48:45 hm 22:49:02 ehird: Well, the idea of writing a disambiguated Funge isn't bad in theory since the spec does kinda suck in some places. 22:49:09 Deewiant: It's fun. 22:49:15 Deewiant, ah but which way do the bot start 22:49:20 In practice I don't think it's smart since Funge is small. 22:49:29 Deewiant, is it 0 initially 22:49:33 Deewiant: I mean, it's fun because it's esoteric and this kind of shit is the only reason I'm implementing it. 22:49:39 AnMaster: Undefined. 22:49:46 AnMaster: So don't rely on it. 22:49:53 Deewiant, indeed. 22:50:11 direction = error "Demons fly out of your window, washing the windows API" 22:50:36 Deewiant, and there are various other issues are we both know 22:51:00 Deewiant, and it is hard to implement correctly 22:51:19 I don't think TURT has any important spec issues. 22:52:12 Some things could be explicit but implicitness doesn't matter, it can't be misinterpreted IMO. 22:55:44 "the Funge interpreter should at least provide an option for informing the user that it was told to execute an instruction that isn't implemented" 22:55:51 ` executed. 22:55:55 What code should be used? _ 22:56:03 It's just like the good old days in '93! 22:56:21 Deewiant, TOYS do though 22:56:27 TOYS, certainly. 22:56:52 you can't implement it without looking at an existing implementation. 22:56:54 AnMaster: However, at least the Cat's Eye fingerprints say that they're under development. 22:57:03 As in, you're not really supposed to implement them. :-P 22:57:07 Deewiant, yes, but nothing happen. 22:57:11 happens* 22:57:18 Yes, so? 22:57:20 They're unfinished. 22:57:21 meh 22:57:22 TOYS? 22:57:29 http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/TOYS.html 22:57:39 Looks trivial 22:57:43 ehird, err no 22:57:59 B ('pair of shoes') pops two cells off the stack and pushes the result of a "butterfly" bit operation. 22:58:00 The only thing that can't be done is the butterfly op. 22:58:02 what about that one 22:58:12 Deewiant, as I just said yes ;P 22:58:13 And actually, even that I did find by googling. 22:58:16 Deewiant: how do you implement that one? 22:58:19 But it's so obscure that I didn't trust it. 22:58:26 Turned out to be consensus. 22:58:31 Maybe because it's the only one I found ;-P 22:58:40 ehird: Don't you have CCBI? 22:58:44 Yes. 22:58:48 ehird, everyone copied CCBI 22:58:50 ehird: ccbi -p 22:58:51 If I read it the license gnomes will infect my heart. 22:59:11 ehird, err ccbi -p is abstract algorithm info 22:59:26 Does ccbi2 have it 22:59:32 tar.us.to[0: 88.114.245.125]: errno=Connection refused 22:59:32 fatal: unable to connect a socket (Connection refused) 22:59:34 Deewiant, ^ 22:59:38 ehird, TIAS! 22:59:45 AnMaster: License. Gnomes. 22:59:51 ... 22:59:56 ehird, "try it and see" 22:59:57 AnMaster: ccbi is broken on my system 22:59:59 because ldc sucks. 23:00:10 ok. 23:00:12 ehird: Didn't you pull the non-regex one? 23:00:14 ehird, yes it does 23:00:21 Deewiant: yes 23:00:26 ehird: That one works? 23:00:30 Deewiant, can you put it up to let me pull last 23:00:37 Deewiant: Until I execute a program, IIRC 23:00:38 AnMaster: Which one do you have? 23:00:46 There is no 'last', it's in 10 or so branches currently 23:00:54 Deewiant, uh 23:00:55 ehird: ccbi -p doesn't execute a program! 23:00:56 Deewiant: 23:00:56 how do I telll 23:00:58 % bin/ccbi ~/Downloads/mycology/mycology.b98 [HANG] 23:00:59 tell* 23:01:05 ehird: bin/ccbi -p 23:01:10 Deewiant, how do I tell 23:01:13 Deewiant: Yes. 23:01:18 But why is it broken 23:01:33 I don't know, I can't see into the mind of your computer. 23:01:52 Phoo 23:01:52 Deewiant, I know for sure you can serve git from plain http. I can accept the lower speed. 23:01:54 AnMaster: git show, for instance 23:02:02 commit 732e49a3401df2a1bd36221f8d767e00f8553a85 23:02:02 Author: Matti Niemenmaa 23:02:02 Date: Mon Apr 27 20:05:15 2009 +0300 23:02:02 Remove 'private' from FIXP. 23:02:03 that? 23:02:15 it is what git show says 23:02:15 'B' pops y, then x, and pushes x+y, then x-y. This may or may not be the 23:02:16 the "butterfly bit operation" requested. 23:02:17 Yes, well, the first line would've been enough. 23:02:20 How did you get that defn? 23:02:26 ehird: Google. 23:02:34 Oh, and also 23:02:35 !Befunge 23:02:44 Which is when I decided that it's probably right 23:02:44 Deewiant: It doesn't seem very...well...bit operationy 23:02:50 ehird: I know. 23:02:55 Hence, may or may not be. 23:03:35 Deewiant, still connection refused. 23:03:38 "FRTH" 0x46525448 Some common forth [sic] commands 23:03:39 sic? 23:03:46 ehird: FORTH. 23:03:51 ehird, FORTH != forth 23:03:51 Deewiant: It's Forth. 23:03:55 well 23:03:57 ehird: These days, yes. 23:03:58 Forth != forth too 23:04:01 When being pedantic it helps to be right. 23:04:02 ehird: It's not forth, though. 23:04:18 as indicated by the [sic] 23:04:19 yes 23:04:26 ehird: I'm old-fashioned. 23:04:30 Deewiant, Anyway! Why is it still timeout 23:04:34 Deewiant: Chuck Moore calls it Forth. He is right. 23:04:46 AnMaster: Because you haven't told me how I export the branch you want 23:04:53 err 23:05:01 Deewiant, I said what git show showed 23:05:07 Yes, you did. 23:05:12 Deewiant, I'm happy to follow the same branch 23:05:15 But I don't know how to export only the main branch. 23:05:25 Deewiant, well. Do you think I do 23:05:31 If I give you everything you'll ask me how to switch branches etc. and I don't want to be your Git tutorial. 23:05:47 Deewiant, I actually done that before 23:05:51 I kind of remember it 23:05:52 AnMaster: No, but if you really want it it's your onus to figure it out, not mine. 23:06:09 Deewiant, won't it default to the main one by default 23:06:11 Or at least, you shouldn't ping me every few minutes. 23:06:19 AnMaster: There is no "main" one in Git. 23:06:25 All branches are equal. 23:06:30 Deewiant: What about >1 per sec 23:06:31 Deewiant, surely you have a trunk 23:06:32 Is that okay 23:06:33 The default one is just called "master". 23:06:39 AnMaster: Yes, but Git doesn't know that. 23:06:41 ehird: ? 23:06:48 Deewiant, so won't I track master by default? 23:06:52 Deewiant: Look at your irc server console 23:07:06 ehird: What about it 23:07:16 Deewiant: I /ping'd you :P 23:07:18 Several times 23:07:20 (x, y) → (x+y, x-y) is the only butterfly operation I am aware of, too; the one used in FFT. I admit the "bit" word is a bit distracting there. 23:07:25 ehird: I can't see that 23:07:30 Deewiant: o 23:07:40 err 23:07:46 since TOYS is inspired by INTERCAL 23:07:52 fizzie: Sqqms rqght. Hqy, Q'm vqwqllqss qgqqn! 23:08:04 ais523, does "butterfly bit operation" mean anything in intercal? 23:08:13 AnMaster: no 23:08:18 oh well 23:08:20 was worth a try. 23:08:33 it has a meaning in fast fourier transforms 23:08:40 which is the one RC/Funge tries to implement 23:08:51 ais523, the "bit" bit doesn't make sense there though 23:08:51 Deewiant: What does FBBI do? 23:08:53 or was it FBBI? 23:09:00 ehird: FBBI implements only ROMA and NULL. 23:09:05 ehird, iirc FBBI doesn't implement TOYS 23:09:08 grr. 23:09:23 what's null? nop fingerprint? 23:09:28 Yep. 23:09:50 ehird, NULL and ROMA are trivial 23:10:43 GOAL: Execute sanity.bf 23:11:03 0-0, space, ., # and @ must be implemented. 23:11:06 *0-9 23:12:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:12:20 AnMaster: Welp, I just made a tmpdir into which I pushed, that might've worked. 23:12:50 * AnMaster pulls 23:12:51 NULL is not exactly "nop" in the sense that it has observable effects: it does add a r-like instruction for all [A-Z]; I used it in fungot for swapping things with FING before replacing the parts that needed that with Z instead of X. 23:12:52 fizzie: ' i don't know what. what's the good of having it all over again?' she said to herself, that she mightn't take his breath away: but, when he had satisfied himself that the flowers are always asleep.' 23:12:54 err 23:12:58 AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE! 23:13:20 Deewiant, http://pastebin.ca/1407889 23:13:22 fizzie: It adds nop to everything, which justifies calling it a nop fingerprint, I guess. 23:13:24 I get that from git pull 23:13:25 :( 23:13:37 AnMaster: Please read the docs. 23:13:43 And that message. 23:13:43 ehird, tl;dr! 23:13:43 Thx. 23:13:44 Deewiant: It adds a reflect; that's a strange thing to call a "nop". Well, I guess it depends on your viewpoint. 23:13:49 AnMaster: RTFMessage then if you need it RTFManual. 23:13:50 AnMaster: Then you don't get ccbi2. 23:13:52 Sux 2 be u 23:13:56 Deewiant: But the official "nop" is not a reflect. 23:14:05 fizzie: True. 23:14:09 Deewiant, so I do a clean checkout Right? Easier. 23:14:11 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:14:18 AnMaster: Congrats; you just avoided learning something. 23:14:25 AnMaster: Sorry, I killed the server. 23:14:31 Haha 23:14:48 ehird, I don't plan to learn git 23:14:53 Deewiant, tell me when you restarted it 23:14:59 "when" 23:14:59 AnMaster: Maybe next week 23:15:07 Deewiant, .. why 23:15:08 fizzie: Originally I actually thought it added a nop and not a reflection. A no-longer-existent version of Mycology expected that 23:15:16 Deewiant, you are just silly now 23:16:19 AnMaster: You don't think it's worth it to read 5 lines of error message and figure it out for yourself? 23:16:32 Deewiant: It would be giving in to the enemy (git) 23:16:43 glibc is git. 23:16:45 Deewiant, 17 != 5 23:16:49 learn to count 23:16:51 Deewiant: Then he shall have to do without. 23:17:05 -!- coppro has joined. 23:17:08 AnMaster: You only need to read the first 5. 23:17:10 Indeed, a libc is but a speck compared to the horrors of learning one command of git. 23:17:35 try again (e.g. 'git pull '). 23:17:37 right 23:17:42 read the first 5 ones 23:17:46 but what do I want there 23:17:48 I don't know 23:17:55 So do you get the situation? 23:17:56 AnMaster: Did you lose your English lobe overnight? 23:18:06 Deewiant, no 23:18:06 Deewiant: does each IP have its own stack of instruction maps? 23:18:08 Clearly you're on a different branch than the remote you pulled from. 23:18:15 Since it asks which branch to merge with. 23:18:19 ehird: Yes. 23:18:28 Deewiant, ok. I'm used to separate directories like for svn. And bzr. 23:18:41 Deewiant, so I don't get what this error mean. Nor how to correct it. 23:18:45 "instructionMapStack". What an unwieldy name. 23:19:06 ehird, opcode_stack in cfunge. 23:19:23 Deewiant, and which one do I want to answer here 23:19:28 AnMaster: It's saying that you're on a different branch and it wants to know what branch to merge with. 23:19:41 Deewiant, and I don't know which one you recommend. 23:19:42 Hmm, maybe a stack is bad, if you load 4 fprints it'll take 4 "tail"s to get to a core instruction. 23:19:51 AnMaster: I'd go with HEAD. 23:20:21 Not sure if that's correct, but that's what I'd try first. 23:20:24 Deewiant, so git pull git://tar.us.to/ HEAD 23:20:28 then? 23:20:53 It's not like it'll rm -rf $HOME if you do it wrong. 23:20:55 AnMaster: TIAS! 23:20:57 Deewiant, seems you didn't kill it at all. How nasty to claim you did it. 23:21:00 Ooh that felt good. 23:21:09 ehird, yes I already did... 23:21:13 before you typed that 23:21:20 AnMaster: I did, but I restarted it when I realized that you need it to pull changes again. 23:21:39 Deewiant, any reason why you don't publish it over plain http 23:21:45 it seems rather closed development model 23:22:08 AnMaster: how many non-deewiant committers are there? 23:22:11 none? Yes, that sounds closed. 23:22:11 Originally I didn't know it was possible and since then I haven't bothered to set it up 23:22:25 ehird: IIRC you offered a patch but didn't bother ;-) 23:22:52 AnMaster: So did the pull work? 23:23:51 AnMaster: ^ 23:24:22 Deewiant: thoughts re: stack? 23:24:45 ehird: I didn't get your thoughts. My suggestion is the YAGNI development model. 23:24:49 Deewiant, why should I tell you when you act like that :P 23:24:56 Deewiant: 23:19 ehird: Hmm, maybe a stack is bad, if you load 4 fprints it'll take 4 "tail"s to get to a core instruction. 23:25:00 AnMaster: Well, it's your loss if it didn't work. 23:25:03 Deewiant, anyway bzr is a lot more logical here. Acts more like you expect. 23:25:04 ehird: Yes, I didn't get. 23:25:05 Deewiant: That's not quite YAGNI as This May Slow Down Everything. 23:25:13 AnMaster: FAMILIARITY IS NOT INTUITIVENESS! 23:25:15 ehird: May = YAGNI. 23:25:15 Deewiant, it seems to have worked 23:25:21 By the same argument, AnMaster, Windows is more logical than Linux. 23:25:38 AnMaster: Good. 23:25:53 ehird, No. bzr is closer to what you expect from a file system and from a static web server 23:25:59 one resource per directory/file 23:26:09 AnMaster: You're on crack, sir, and don't understand git at all. 23:26:17 Because you come from the context of another VCS. 23:26:28 This is not git's fault. 23:26:30 ehird, I don't want to understand such an abomination as git no. 23:26:41 I actually always expected branches to live in one directory and was surprised that VCSs don't do it 23:26:55 Second by second you make me less likely to ever try and help you with anything ever again, AnMaster. 23:26:56 SVN in particular struck me as really messed up in terms of layout 23:27:00 ehird, I fully support google going for mercurial. I don't like hg. But I can live with it. 23:27:07 it isn't too broken in semantics. 23:27:10 like git is. 23:27:12 But git eats babies after fucking them, yeah, yeah, STFU. 23:27:40 Deewiant, yes. branches/tags/trunk is kind of messy in svn 23:27:53 it is trying to be semi-CVS compatible 23:28:36 Hmm. 23:28:43 I wonder how I should tell instructions what IP they're executing on. 23:28:50 Deewiant, also I managed to get by with simple git pull from several kernel.org projects 23:28:53 with no issues. 23:28:54 Interpreter -> InstructionPointer -> IO (Interpreter,InstructionPointer), maybe. 23:29:02 AnMaster: Yes, it's HIS fault. Obviously. 23:29:15 ehird, I would assume so. 23:29:16 AnMaster: Well, you've been pulling from my development state which means it wasn't on the master branch. 23:29:20 AnMaster: lolllllllllll 23:29:23 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:29:25 Deewiant, you never told me. 23:29:28 Deewiant: feel bad about yourself! 23:29:35 AnMaster: Why on earth should I have told you? 23:29:43 You can find out trivially by asking git 23:29:48 Deewiant, I just followed your instructions. I would assume that to lead to a sensible state. 23:29:58 The state was sensible 23:30:05 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:30:12 I recall being badgered by people to serve CCBI2 23:30:20 While I was in the middle of writing something for it 23:30:24 Deewiant, what? git info? No such thing. I tried many commands that seems kind of common to many VCS, including svn, bzr, darcs, hg. None of them worked. 23:30:26 So WYGIWYGAINGW. 23:30:35 Deewiant, ? 23:30:38 AnMaster: git help, perhaps? 23:30:42 AnMaster: what you get is what you get and it's not gonna work 23:30:46 Deewiant, yes but didn't find what I wanted there. 23:30:54 ehird: s/not gonna work/no good whining/ 23:31:01 Deewiant: I was guessing 23:31:07 Deewiant, I prefer ehird's interpretation 23:31:09 AnMaster: branch List, create, or delete branches 23:31:09 closer to reality. 23:31:13 AnMaster: status Show the working tree status 23:31:19 AnMaster: show Show various types of objects 23:31:20 AnMaster: Oh fuck off if you're going to be so ungrateful to Deewiant 23:31:24 AnMaster: log Show commit logs 23:31:26 he has NO OBLIGATION to give you a ccbi2 repository 23:31:27 Deewiant, how do I show what branch I pulled from 23:31:29 the url I mean 23:31:51 I don't know if it even remembers that 23:31:55 bzr info | grep parent 23:31:56 svn info | grep URL 23:31:59 two examples 23:32:18 the darcs one was similar iirc 23:32:23 I think you have to do an explicit 'git remote add' to save the URL. 23:32:42 Read the manpages for git-remote, I don't know about that. 23:32:43 Deewiant, I just had to do git pull before without giving the url 23:32:53 Okay, then it does. 23:33:32 ah darcs was slightly different indeed: 23:33:34 darcs show repo | grep Remote 23:33:38 but darcs too is easy 23:33:45 compared to git. 23:33:58 git may be good internally. I'm not arguing against that. 23:34:20 But it need a better user interface 23:34:21 Deewiant: The stack stack is initially filled with infinite (infinite 0s), right? 23:34:33 ehird, no it is empty 23:34:35 AnMaster: I daresay the problem is with you. 23:34:49 ehird: 2009-04-30 00:40:19 ( Deewiant) ehird: No, it's repeat (repeat 0) 23:34:49 Me and Deewiant don't seem to have any issues with gi 23:34:50 t 23:34:51 ehird, and with 95% of the other developers. 23:34:54 Deewiant: Rite. 23:34:59 ehird, you two right 23:35:00 AnMaster: Yes, because nobody at all uses git. 23:35:10 ehird, svn is more common 23:35:11 It is not a very popular DVCS, if not the most popular. 23:35:17 Ulrich Drepper uses git so it must be good 23:35:17 It is not gaining large amounts of traction. 23:35:27 In fact, everyone hates it. 23:35:36 Birds shit on Linus just for making git. 23:35:41 Deewiant, why. You are a fanboy of him? 23:35:47 >_< 23:35:59 ehird: You broke his sarcasm detector 23:36:03 Deewiant, I know he is glibc maintainer. I think glibc is bloated. 23:36:04 Deewiant: It never worked. 23:36:20 Deewiant: Along with his Sense of Humour Lobe and the Intelligence cortex. 23:36:22 ehird, it did before I met you 23:36:23 AnMaster: Maybe you know that people in general think he's batshit insane 23:36:36 Deewiant: He's right you know, though. Everyone who likes git is inherently a fanboy. 23:36:54 Deewiant, I haven't really tracked the general opinions about him. So I have no clue if that is sarcasm or not. 23:36:58 ehird: Oh noes 23:37:10 AnMaster: Well, people do. 23:37:47 Deewiant, it's like ais523 a few days ago (yesterday? or day before that?). He quoted jwz. He didn't know jwz was one of the developers of Netscape 23:37:53 Yes he did. 23:37:59 no I didn't 23:38:00 He just didn't know that jwz meant Jamie Zawinski. 23:38:01 ehird, go read logs then. 23:38:03 ais523: oh. 23:38:04 k 23:38:09 I was under the impression you did know 23:38:14 It's not exactly common knowledge 23:38:18 Unlike ulrich drepper 23:38:19 ehird, read logs. Before you talk 23:38:26 ehird, hypocrite 23:38:27 That sounds like a metal guitarist's name btw 23:38:28 I'm not sure how that is relevant to anything at all? 23:38:30 AnMaster: Oh fuck off. 23:38:44 ehird, you always complain when I don't read fully or misunderstood 23:38:50 yet you do the same yourself 23:38:52 ... 23:39:01 Tip of the Day: On the list of things I care about, AnMaster whining that I'm so unfair to him comes in rock bottom. 23:39:27 ehird, I'm not "whining". I'm just stating a fact. 23:39:33 That you are a hypocrite. 23:39:41 Mm. Yes. You're stating a fact in an incredibly whiney way. 23:39:47 no. 23:39:58 "NO I'M NOT BEING WHINY! HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING WHINEEEEEEEEEY" 23:40:12 ehird, who are you quoting. 23:40:15 I think this is a good opportunity to sleep for some 10 hours 23:40:17 o/ 23:40:21 Deewiant, cya 23:40:21 Deewiant: Bye 23:40:47 ehird, and I really regret I provided that description of how cfunge bounds work to you. 23:41:06 AnMaster: If you didn't have I could always have read the source and wantonly violated the GPL3. 23:41:22 ehird, well you could. I doubt you would have. 23:41:33 AnMaster: You think I care about copyright law...? 23:41:49 ehird, No. I think you would have reacted in same way as for hsfunge source. 23:41:55 quite early on 23:42:03 I've read cfunge source before. 23:42:07 It's shit code but I can read shit code. 23:42:14 ehird, not since I started using inline asm. 23:42:18 and it isn't shit code. 23:42:29 I can read asm, albeit slowly. 23:42:30 I guess it isn't your preferred indention style. 23:42:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:42:50 AnMaster: your code would give k&r a heart attack 23:43:05 ehird, sure. I'm using C99 as you very well know. 23:43:21 ehird, and I'm using a different indention style yes. 23:43:36 I don't like the k&r indention style at all 23:43:41 Whoosh 23:50:48 ehird, your use of that word all the time makes no sense. 23:51:03 I guess it is some compulsive behaviour. 23:51:10 That's funny, because I use it to exactly mark you missing the point entirely. 23:51:17 Hardly surprising, then. 23:51:25 You miss your missing of the point. 23:51:54 ehird, seems highly non-standard. Checked urban dict. 23:51:59 and google define 23:52:11 (with varying number of o) 23:52:24 It is onomatopoeic 23:52:31 ehird, yes I found out that 23:52:34 for blowing or wind 23:52:40 "joke going over your head" is highly idiomatic. 23:52:54 "Whoosh" is the internet-created shortening. 23:53:19 ehird, "going over your head" I know of yes. 23:53:27 But how does it end up as "whoosh" 23:53:39 AnMaster: I see nothing large has ever gone over your head. 23:53:45 or you're deaf 23:53:55 ...? 23:54:14 or you were in a vacuum at the time 23:55:30 ehird, you still doesn't make sense. I guess you are trying (and failing as usual) to be funny 23:55:34 No. 23:55:37 Not at all. 23:55:47 I'm forced to assume that if you 23:55:48 I wonder how ais523 can stand you. It's strange. 23:55:54 night 23:55:56 've really never heard the "whoosh" sound of air as something goes over your haed, 23:55:58 *head 23:56:01 you live in a faraday cage. 23:56:17 ehird, you mean low flying bird for example? 23:56:20 sure. 23:56:28 Yes. If that's the only thing that flies in the air in Sweden. 23:56:42 ehird, aircrafts usually fly a lot higher 23:57:01 at least I don't stand under one a few meters above 23:58:07 ehird, anyway it isn't called "whoosh" in Swedish. I don't think I ever heard a name for it. 23:58:38 the wind. then the verb is "viner" 23:59:11 or for the noun, "ett vinande ljud" (a whooshing (from wind) sound I guess) 23:59:20 sound,* 23:59:47 ehird, you seem to assume everyone have near native English knowledge.