00:00:27 <kerlo> I wonder if I can find bottled water around here.
00:01:47 <Gracenotes> I have bottle water here. I can teleport it on request
00:02:11 <ehird> okloduk: tha's the troll there :
00:02:47 <okloduk> what was that in reference upon
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00:04:08 <kerlo> Send it to "c/o Modd, 4100 Kroes, Rockford, MI". I'm sure the delivery people will be able to figure out the rest.
00:07:50 <Gracenotes> that's what happens when you go to the daycare!
00:08:16 <Sgeo[College]> Did you just suggest that I'd go to the daycare to bread?
00:08:51 <Gracenotes> have you learned nothing from Pokemon!!
00:09:01 <kerlo> Unless you're applying crumbs to food.
00:11:27 <ehird> 00:11 thegoldensnitch: okloduk: Slava Pestov is the Creator
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00:15:56 <okloduk> how long has he been doing that?
00:16:23 <Gracenotes> you're talking about living in Britain, right
00:16:23 <okloduk> Gracenotes: i love touching humans
00:17:03 <Gracenotes> okay, and suppose I loved touching humus
00:17:12 <oerjan> okloduk: oh, i'd never have guessed that
00:17:51 <Gracenotes> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmus
00:18:01 <oerjan> i think i would prefer hummus to humus, except i don't think i've met the former
00:18:05 <okloduk> that's just one instance of what i'm capable of loving to touch.
00:18:26 <oerjan> ^ul (hu)S((m)S:^):^(us)S
00:18:27 <fungot> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...too much output!
00:18:47 <ehird> oerjan: is the "us" like the 0 at the end of 0.99999999999
00:19:19 <okloduk> ehird: problem with your suggestion is thegoldensnitch doesn't answer in priv.
00:22:07 <okloduk> looks like a bot for the most part
00:22:18 <ehird> he was in previously being very creepy
00:22:25 <Gracenotes> *puts Daft Punk on iPod to exercise to*
00:22:28 <ehird> making guesses, asking him if people were related to him
00:22:33 <ehird> called a phone number, asked about who answered
00:22:46 <ehird> he's basically stalking him.
00:23:03 <ehird> Gracenotes: what album
00:23:14 <Gracenotes> their live one... which is sort of a medley
00:23:19 <okloduk> ehird: oh? well that's much more interesting than a troll could ever be
00:23:19 <Gracenotes> trying to see which other ones I like best
00:23:33 <okloduk> and then i'd understand wanting to ban him.
00:23:58 <okloduk> but without proof i wouldn't make such an assumption, i'm always interested in seeing creepy logs ofc
00:26:55 <ehird> Zyzzyx Road (IPA pronunciation: /zʊzɪzɪkʰs/; or phonics: /zuh-zih-zix/) is a 2006 independent thriller film. It stars Leo Grillo, Katherine Heigl, and Tom Sizemore. The screenplay was written by John Penney, who also directed the film.
00:26:56 <ehird> The film has gained a degree of notoriety due to its extremely low U.S. box office gross ($30 USD).
00:27:00 <ehird> w/ budget of $2mil
00:29:17 <coppro> wait... as in, 3 people saw it?
00:30:04 <ehird> coppro: it's not that simple
00:30:05 <ehird> it was intentional
00:30:11 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyzzyx_Road
00:33:01 <ehird> http://www.regrettheerror.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/queen-bee.jpg
00:37:30 <oerjan> your majesty is looking mighty stingy today
00:39:31 <oerjan> maybe it's half of one
00:41:09 <oerjan> La dee dee, one two three
00:58:00 <Gracenotes> "my intent is not to make you desire me." hawt
01:01:34 <oerjan> "well then you have succeeded" might be a good comeback
01:02:02 <Gracenotes> *making love until morning's light* might be a good response
01:09:55 <Gracenotes> ehird: anyway, if necessary you guys should talk to the freenode staff about it
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01:18:37 <GregorR> Is there any revision control system that will allow you to add directories which are managed by the same RCS, including the control files? (Like if I could hg add foo/.hg). I want to keep my backups in an RCS, but I don't want to f*** around with checkouts in the checkout, I'd rather just confuse the host than try to make it behave "intelligently"
01:42:26 <coppro> What advantages would you gain from that?
01:43:27 <coppro> most RCSes store complete backups of every previous revision... I don't see why storing the lockfiles, etc. would help
01:49:48 <kerlo> "well then you have not failed" would be a more correct comeback.
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03:55:29 <Sgeo> Any thoughts on O3D/
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05:38:38 <coppro> Stuff runs slow enough in my browser as is
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09:01:54 <okloduk> As someone who has purchased programming titles from Amazon.com, you might be interested in a list of featured CSS, HTML, and java_script references. <<< yeah, a few haskell and scheme books and AOCP definitely suggest that.
09:02:31 <Slereah_> They don't go into specifics, okloduk
09:02:47 <Slereah_> They just go PROGRAMMING -> PROGRAMMING
09:03:01 <Slereah_> Which is better than Amazon Japan, who doesn't even go that far
09:03:13 <okloduk> yes, maybe they should go statistics -> sense
09:03:25 <Slereah_> I buy books on 2ch and they propose me cameras and jewelry
09:03:38 <Slereah_> They just send the same shit to everyone I assume
09:03:42 <okloduk> okay yeah i prefer javascript
09:04:28 <okloduk> the problem is if i actually want something, then i probably know exactly what i want. the rest of the stuff i want is completely random books no one has ever heard about.
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09:05:08 <okloduk> Programming Entity Framework
09:05:08 <okloduk> As someone who has purchased computer science manuals from Amazon.com, you might be interested in a list of featured Microsoft tech guides from O'Reilly.
09:05:17 <okloduk> "computer science manuals" xD
09:05:58 <Slereah_> Let's see what Amazon advises me right now
09:06:25 <okloduk> what's a computer science manual
09:07:23 <Slereah_> Flatland (Illustrated Edition), Traumeel Ointment 100 Gm Tube, Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions (Dover Thrift Editions),Traumeel-Topical Homeopathic Formula, 50 Gram Tube
09:07:40 <Slereah_> I never bought anything even somehow related
09:08:00 <okloduk> well you're gay aren't you!
09:08:30 <Slereah_> The Zombie Survival Guide, Godel's Proof, An Introduction to Gödel's Theorems, I hope they serve beer in hell, Sister Time (The Posleen War)
09:08:31 <okloduk> is that a book about 2d creatures
09:08:54 <okloduk> those sound much nicer than mine
09:08:59 <Slereah_> "On Formally Undecidable Propositions of Principia Mathematica and Related Systems, by Kurt Gödel"
09:09:09 <fizzie> What Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item? 91% buy the item featured on this page: Installing Linux on a Dead Badger. 3% buy A Practical Guide to Linux(R) Commands, Editors, and Shell Programming. 2% buy Batman: The Dark Knight Returns.
09:09:14 <Slereah_> That article is like 30 pages at most
09:10:00 <Slereah_> "Recommended because you added Traumeel 100 TaBs to your Shopping Cart"
09:10:20 <Slereah_> Did someone snoop around in my Amazon account?
09:11:14 <Slereah_> Last orders where "The Right to Arm Bears" and "Ghost Aliens"
09:11:58 <Slereah_> No, it's not fiction. Real space bears.
09:12:20 <okloduk> well yes obviously it's real, you just hadn't told me about the space bears yet
09:12:32 <Slereah_> http://www.amazon.com/Right-Arm-Bears-Gordon-Dickson/dp/0671319590/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240474343&sr=8-1
09:12:46 <okloduk> okay next one, i have limited interest for fiction
09:13:20 <okloduk> is that you know about cellular automata?
09:13:34 <fizzie> Well, uh... my amazon.com recommendations are: "Polk Audio Monitor 70 3-Way Floorstanding Speaker", "PlayStation 3 Frontman Wireless Guitar - Black", "Sony SS-B1000 5 1/8-Inch bookshelf speakers (Pair)" and "ACOUSTIC RESEARCH AP-16100W 100' White 16 Gauge Oxygen-Free Speaker Wire". And as far as I know I have never purchased anything audio-related from Amazon.
09:13:50 <Slereah_> Do you remember the website REAL Ultimate Power?
09:14:39 <fizzie> "Recommended because you added Pioneer VSX-917V-S Home Theater Receiver (Silver) to your Shopping Cart". Hm. Maybe I wanted to see their shipping price for something like that or something.
09:14:40 <Slereah_> http://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Aliens-Trey-Hamburger/dp/0307407306/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240474469&sr=1-1
09:14:41 <okloduk> fizzie: they deduce what you do by the way you move your mouse.
09:15:02 <Slereah_> Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought
09:15:02 <Slereah_> REAL Ultimate Power: The Official Ninja Book by Robert Hamburger
09:15:03 <Slereah_> 4.3 out of 5 stars (229) $9.95
09:15:07 <Slereah_> The Alphabet Of Manliness by Maddox
09:15:09 <Slereah_> 4.5 out of 5 stars (225) $10.85
09:15:13 <Slereah_> The Zombie Survival Guide: Complete Protection from... by Max Brooks
09:15:15 <Slereah_> 4.4 out of 5 stars (398) $10.94
09:16:01 <okloduk> well, they do sound interesting.
09:16:22 <fizzie> Aw, all my recommendations are because of that home theater receiver I didn't even seriously want to buy. And anyway I'm not quite sure how "McCulloch MC-1275 Heavy Duty Steam Cleaner " is related to it.
09:16:46 <okloduk> fizzie: have you bought things other?
09:16:56 <fizzie> (Or "Lavazza Crema e Aroma Coffee Beans, 2.2-Pound Bag"... I guess music-listeners are avid coffee drinkers?)
09:17:10 <fizzie> Yes, I've bought a book or two. Apparently they weren't interesting enough.
09:17:45 <Slereah_> Buy "Underground Fisting III", you'll get more colorful suggestions.
09:17:53 <fizzie> I don't suppose these recommendations differ between amazon.com and .de/.co.uk? I'm not sure which one I used for actual purchases.
09:18:25 <fizzie> "You have no Amazon purchases or items you told us you own." Maybe it is domain-specific, then. Or they just forgot my orders.
09:20:18 <fizzie> Yes, if I use .co.uk I get (in the "items you own" page) the TAOCP box, "Concrete Mathematics: Foundation for Computer Science" (wait, I don't remember buying this...), "Art of 3D Computer Animation and Effects" (as a course text-book, and not even for me) and "My Tank Is Fight". Not a very long shopping history.
09:21:10 <okloduk> i own more items than you.
09:21:26 <fizzie> The recommendations here are more sensible. Although I do get the "The Zombie Survival Guide: Complete Protection from the Living Dead" result too. I guess Amazon's just worried about loyal customers being eaten by zombies.
09:21:56 <fizzie> Also "How to Survive a Robot Uprising: Tips on Defending Yourself Against the Coming Rebellion". It certainly sounds like they're trying to tell me something.
09:22:15 <Slereah_> fizzie : Did you buy any internet related book?
09:22:25 <Slereah_> Like the Alphabet of Manliness or something
09:22:47 <fizzie> I just listed my complete shopping history up in the third-to-last comment before this one.
09:23:31 <okloduk> are all recommendations mailed to me? i can't actually access the user, my dad just decided to start forwarding amazon spam to me.
09:23:47 <okloduk> (essentially my account, i just don't pay anything naturally)
09:23:48 <fizzie> Both the zombie and the robot books are "Recommended because you purchased My Tank is Fight". I guess that makes sense.
09:24:00 <Slereah_> Internet people buy internet books
09:24:23 <Slereah_> The Alphabet of Manliness and Real Ultimate Power shouldn't be far behind
09:24:43 <okloduk> "a practical guide to racism"
09:24:58 <okloduk> how's that on the front page?
09:25:18 <okloduk> but i don't buy stuff from amazon.
09:25:24 <Slereah_> Let's lynch niggers or something
09:25:35 <Slereah_> okloduk : It also takes into accounts the books you looked at
09:25:45 <okloduk> i guess it could be something like anti-racism, but sure as hell doesn't look like it
09:25:54 <okloduk> Slereah_: oh. that would be what you linked.
09:26:09 <okloduk> Slereah_: they remember my ip and store what i've viewed?
09:26:59 <Slereah_> But do you have one, logged on right no
09:27:23 <Slereah_> Then it's prolly a cookie or something
09:28:08 <okloduk> i should probably go now. i'm being in a hurry of sorts.
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13:40:25 <okloduk> so long uninteresting story, here goes
13:40:54 <okloduk> you know how when there's a melody playd with an instrument that does not give you the beat, basically you need to deduce where bars start and end yourself
13:41:11 <okloduk> now, anyone who know music at all will automatically find the correct "intuitive" barring
13:41:54 <okloduk> now i've always enjoyed my music as weird as possible, and i wasn't particularly good at this barring thing (and i still don't find the same intuitive barring every time, for instance recently for one of ihope's melodies).
13:42:03 <okloduk> so there was this ice cream truck
13:42:17 <okloduk> and i remember being fascinated by the melody it plays when i was a kid
13:42:38 <okloduk> because the times are first 4/4, then an extra beat, then 3/4 till the end
13:43:06 <okloduk> now i suddenly realized this has probably just been a failure in hearing what it's supposed to be
13:43:48 <okloduk> and, after a moment of intensive thinking (takes a moment to find another interpretation for something you've known since you were 6), i ruined the melody.
13:43:57 <okloduk> it's not interesting now that it's 3/4.
13:44:31 <okloduk> and instrument in question was something of a sine wave.
13:44:58 <okloduk> *good at this barring thing as a kid
13:45:12 <okloduk> *the same intuitive barring as most people
13:45:29 <fizzie> I think our (read: the one that goes around in the Helsinki/Espoo region) ice-cream truck sound sounds also like it could be 3/4. I wonder if it's a standard.
13:46:17 <okloduk> e|4740.e|4740.e|8.85.5|3.....
13:46:48 <fizzie> Yes, that's really very similar. At least the shape of it; I'm very non-musical in other ways.
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13:47:39 <fizzie> I have to immediately-depart now, anyway. But it's good they have standardized the ice-cream truck sound. Wouldn't want people getting confused.
13:55:07 <okloduk> |5.52.2|0..... ofc, i'm used to minor
13:55:15 <okloduk> not that anyone actually tried that out
14:04:36 <okloduk> http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/anicecreamymelody.mid <<< for the wrong melody.
14:42:21 <GregorR> #1 rule of IRC: There shall be no more bots than people. So I need more people in #plof :P
14:49:33 * okloduk is tempted to join a few bots on #plof
14:54:12 <Deewiant> Fun facts about the DMD frontend: nothing is private or protected, everything is public
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15:22:30 <nooga> wtf is this apple shit
15:22:41 <nooga> how am i supposed to code under that :<
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15:24:14 <rabideejit> Hello. I have an irc bot which executes a few esoteric languages, in case anyone would like to see.
15:26:01 <nooga> what langs does it support?
15:26:16 <rabideejit> so far, brainfuck, malbolge, whirl, unlambda and the sk calculus.
15:26:28 * nooga fights osx macfaggotry
15:26:54 <nooga> rabideejit: bring it please
15:26:58 -!- esotericbot has joined.
15:27:05 <esotericbot> Try 'help' followed by one of the following: wh mb sk bf ul
15:27:24 <rabideejit> >mb (=<`$9]7<5YXz7wT.3,+O/o'K%$H"'~D|#z@b=`{^Lx8%$Xmrkpohm-kNi;gsedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543s+O<oLm
15:27:46 <Deewiant> >bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
15:27:55 <Deewiant> ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
15:28:14 <rabideejit> have a shot! If you don't like anything, I can change it. It's not yet running upon the net, only my pc.
15:28:22 <rabideejit> It seems someone found a bug already :p
15:28:35 <esotericbot> No output, sorry! ( Unless your program printed this message )
15:28:42 <esotericbot> No output, sorry! ( Unless your program printed this message )
15:29:37 <rabideejit> the child process are killed after a few seconds, or when they use to much memory
15:30:11 <Deewiant> Methinks that "No output, sorry!" is a bit verbose
15:30:55 <esotericbot> No output, sorry! ( Unless your program printed this message )
15:31:01 <fungot> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM ...too much output!
15:31:18 <rabideejit> I never realized fungot was another bot
15:31:18 <fungot> rabideejit: on the door.
15:32:14 <rabideejit> Or am I more confused? Too much haskell
15:33:10 <Deewiant> Ah right, fungot's ^ul is Underload, not Unlambda.
15:33:11 <fungot> Deewiant: something tapped on the door! and you lot back there—' he turned and waved at the leading troll. there was doing the washing and the summoning of the small dusty bedroom window at the glow at the end of his cane.
15:33:55 <fungot> rabideejit: ' yes, probably the excitement.' herb was hypnotized by the glassy stare and tried fnord to focus.
15:34:08 <Deewiant> Not that I know of. There's source, though.
15:34:25 <Deewiant> rabideejit: Source at http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt
15:34:26 <fungot> Deewiant: " and then we'd be really inconspicuous." he glanced out of the swimming pool."
15:36:33 <Deewiant> Which, with its extension mechanism (called "fingerprints"), has spawned interpreters that can do things like socket communication
15:37:34 <nooga> wonder if it's possible to write neat C to b98 compiler
15:38:15 <Deewiant> I don't think any interpreter supports calling external C functions yet, though AnMaster was working on binding to libffi
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15:39:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I was yes. But it turned out to be too tricky to properly describe from inside befunge.
15:40:35 <nooga> i meant C as a language, not fully legal C99 with libc
15:40:38 <Slereah_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFNORD
15:40:41 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly.
15:40:52 <AnMaster> nooga, this was with a ffi library
15:41:15 <Deewiant> A safe subset of C (no arbitrary pointers and such) which is contained within a single .c file could probably be done without too much brain damage
15:41:17 <AnMaster> still, it was a nightmare trying to work out how to describe the layout of structs and unions from inside a befunge program
15:41:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, variable argument count isn't even supported by libffi iirc
15:41:53 <AnMaster> so you can't do printf/scanf or such
15:43:38 <AnMaster> oh you meant compiling C to befunge
15:43:46 <AnMaster> pretty sure I saw that for some subset before
15:44:12 <AnMaster> or maybe I'm mixing it up with the other way around (and then a non-selfmodifying subset)
15:44:22 <Deewiant> J^4 had something which was unfinished
15:44:34 <Deewiant> http://www.phlamethrower.co.uk/befunge/c2b.php
15:46:09 <AnMaster> um a friend who isn't very good at computer just asked me what a good antivirus program for windows is. Anyone know? Only one I can think of is AVG but I don't know how good it is these days.
15:46:38 <AnMaster> I guess you would know Deewiant ^
15:46:39 <Deewiant> I think AVG is the best free one in terms of detection rate
15:46:52 <Deewiant> I don't use antivirus programs pretty much ever
15:47:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, good enough for someone who won't remember "are you sure?" dialogs 5 seconds after they clicked yes without reading the text?
15:47:39 <Deewiant> Beats me, people complain about its UI
15:48:08 <Deewiant> I don't use antivirus programs like that
15:48:20 <AnMaster> the person used a trial version of McAfee before he said.
15:48:30 <Deewiant> I take every effort to make sure they don't start up automatically and use them only as on-demand scanners
15:48:57 <AnMaster> what has that got to do with it.
15:48:59 <nooga> and i feel like a faggot :<
15:49:31 <nooga> i am using osx and linux, i'm trying to code for iphone ;p
15:51:36 <nooga> don't get me wrong, osx is quite good piece of software: quite unixy, ergonomic gui, support etc.
15:52:24 <AnMaster> nooga, and the windows look like they went into a vacuum cleaner when you minimize them! ;P
15:52:27 <nooga> but coding for osx and iphone was mean to be glittering, easy, pretty, funny, chilling etc etc, like every other thing invented by apple
15:53:17 <AnMaster> (though to be fair you can actually turn that eye candy off iirc)
15:53:25 <nooga> but at the moment i'm trying to hack this xcode faggotry, understand one milion new extensions and file formats
15:53:58 <nooga> and use this smalltalkish objC that went mad
15:54:46 <nooga> and terminal is also a bit fucked up
15:55:22 <rabideejit> I hate IDEs. I like clean simple editors like VIM. Automatically generating good documentation as you go along is more important. In my opinion. Then again, I'm unemployed! :D
15:56:50 <nooga> but there is also good side: macbook composes pretty well with my sports jacket
15:57:58 <rabideejit> Are there any intercal interpreters, or is a compiled language only?
15:59:42 <nooga> now it's time to work on my SADOL3 compiler
15:59:53 <nooga> and then the fun part: i'll bootstrap it
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16:03:08 <rabideejit> I really should go and study linear algebra instead of writing silly code :(
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16:51:56 <AnMaster> what is the difference between "upgrade" and "update"... Or are they true synonyms. They seem to mean the same as far as I can tell.
16:52:12 <AnMaster> or are at least used the same way very often.
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17:00:09 <Slereah_> Upgrade seems to be used more for softwares
17:08:49 <nooga_> valid sadol code: a giant cock spits on a face with aureole
17:16:36 <AnMaster> efunge now only supports Erlang R13B-0 (released two days ago). It may or may not work on older versions, but if you find a bug with that I recommend you to upgrade.
17:16:56 <Deewiant> Does cfunge only support GCC 4.4.0, too? ;-P
17:18:03 <nooga_> efunge = befunge implementation in erlang?
17:18:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no cfunge works on GCC 3.4, 4.1.2, 4.2.1 (llvm-gcc), 4.3.2 and 4.3.3, ICC 10.1, recent svn versions of clang and Open64 (forgot version) at least.
17:18:33 <AnMaster> I don't have older GCC versions around to test with.
17:18:50 <AnMaster> http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/efunge/
17:18:52 <Deewiant> AnMaster: You haven't upgraded to 4.4.0?
17:18:56 <AnMaster> also see http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/
17:19:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I wasn't aware of that it was released
17:19:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also it isn't even stable on Arch yet!
17:19:33 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Neither is Erlang R13B-0...
17:20:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, package flagged out of date. And it is in testing on gentoo (and for erlang I track the ~arch version on gentoo)
17:20:47 <Deewiant> Where can one set such a flag for non-AUR stuff?
17:20:57 <AnMaster> <Slereah_> Upgrade seems to be used more for softwares <Slereah_> Updates more for messages <-- hardware upgrade/update? Virus definition upgrade/update?
17:21:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, err http://www.archlinux.org/, package search
17:21:45 <Deewiant> Ah, there's a link there too, haven't noticed
17:21:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but searching for erlang gives two red results meaning it is already flagged
17:21:52 <Deewiant> Pacman doesn't show the flag, though
17:22:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: And gcc is flagged out of date as well. :-P
17:23:19 <AnMaster> anyway I have no idea if efunge works on R12B-* any longer. I'm pretty sure the old version of dialyzer will barf on the last few revisions of efunge though. Not sure if compiler will handle it.
17:24:24 <GregorR> I have been on the tip of sneezing for like ten minutes. Now my nose is running and I still can't effing sneeze >_<
17:27:02 <AnMaster> "The protoize and unprotoize utilities have been obsoleted and will be removed in GCC 4.5"
17:39:43 <AnMaster> nooga_, you seemed interested in efunge before. :)
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17:47:10 <oerjan> <Slereah_> What's with all the Traumeel?
17:47:17 <GregorR> After reading the man page on protoize, I haven't a fekking clue what it does :P
17:47:29 <oerjan> probably it deduces flat earth -> homeopathy ;D
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17:49:19 <oerjan> <Slereah_> ... I hope they serve beer in hell ...
17:49:31 <oerjan> i wouldn't bet on it being the right temperature, though
17:59:41 <ehird> GregorR: k&r prototypes
17:59:42 <ehird> 12:42 okloduk: and i remember being fascinated by the melody it plays when i was a kid
17:59:43 <ehird> 12:42 okloduk: because the times are first 4/4, then an extra beat, then 3/4 till the end
17:59:44 <ehird> 12:43 okloduk: now i suddenly realized this has probably just been a failure in hearing what it's supposed to be
18:00:40 <oerjan> okloduk: don't let anybody take away your childhood dreams!
18:01:42 <ehird> also A Practical Guide to Racism is a 2007 humorous satirical book written by Sam Means under the pseudonym C.H. Dalton. The book is similar to the Douglas Sutherland book The English Gentleman, in that it is constructed as a "guide" to the behaviors of various social groups (in this case ethnic races) built entirely out of stereotypes associated with said groups.
18:02:52 <ehird> okloduk: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/anicecreamymelody.mid ← is this the non-true one
18:03:48 <ehird> 07:07 andrewSC: how would i get access to the values typed before a word?
18:03:48 <ehird> 07:07 andrewSC: ie
18:03:49 <ehird> 07:07 andrewSC: 1 2 3 4 5 reverse
18:03:51 <ehird> 07:08 andrewSC: the word reverse would then put the numbers in reverse order on the stack.
18:03:53 <ehird> 07:08 andrewSC: i'm not sure how to get access to them..
18:04:44 <okloduk> ehird: what i linked there was the one where i failed to type it down for fizzie.
18:04:57 <ehird> okloduk: is it the 4/4 and 3/4 weird thing
18:05:00 <ehird> or is it the real version
18:05:30 <okloduk> the differences in timing do not really show, well, they would show in the backing instruments ofc.
18:05:39 <ehird> Organisasjonsnummer: 979 829 299
18:05:39 <ehird> Navn/foretaksnavn:';UPDATE TAXRATE SET RATE = 0 WHERE
18:05:40 <ehird> NAME = 'EDVIN SYSE'
18:05:42 <ehird> http://w2.brreg.no/enhet/sok/detalj.jsp?orgnr=979829299
18:10:26 <GregorR> ehird: OHHHH, K&R prototypes. That explains more.
18:10:57 <pikhq> K&R prototypes: aren't they wonderful?
18:11:15 <ehird> They're prettier than new-style C.
18:11:18 <oerjan> ehird: that's some broken second field
18:11:47 <oerjan> it's supposed to be the company name
18:12:35 <oerjan> or did he actually try an SQL injection on the norwegian company register? :D
18:13:29 <ehird> oerjan: it's called a joke
18:13:36 <ehird> he registered it as a joke.
18:13:57 <oerjan> oh yes that makes sense :D
18:17:58 <oerjan> i was too hung up in you pasting a link in norwegian to notice what the point was :D
18:22:15 <ehird> ubuntu 9.04 can be made to look really pretty
18:23:36 <oerjan> but can you put it on a dead badger?
18:23:47 <oerjan> _and_ make it look pretty, at the same time?
18:23:50 <ehird> as long as it has at least 30% of the body as brain
18:24:21 <oerjan> wait, not even humans have that much brain
18:24:45 <pikhq> I've got to give credit to ISO: they managed to make C better without making anything worse.
18:24:54 <oerjan> or was that the point?
18:25:01 <pikhq> (unlike when they standardised C++. "Throw it all in there! ALL OF IT!")
18:25:53 <ehird> i wish we could hurry up and disband ISO
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18:29:56 <oerjan> <okloduk> http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/anicecreamymelody.mid <<< for the wrong melody. <<< i read that as "a nice creamy melody"
18:30:44 <oerjan> before seeing the explanation
18:31:39 * oerjan notes okloduk probably has the same numlock system as his laptop
18:31:40 <AnMaster> nooga_, not sure if you saw: <AnMaster> nooga_, you seemed interested in efunge before. :)
18:32:28 <ehird> you're obsessed AnMaster
18:32:28 <nooga_> ge, i'm at work you know?
18:32:36 <ehird> one mention and bam, on his trail
18:32:41 <AnMaster> nooga_, I wasn't aware of that. Sorry
18:33:01 <ehird> he was talking about how he disliked developing iphone stuff at work
18:33:03 <ehird> around the same time
18:33:49 <ehird> why isn't gcc's -pedantic instead -Wpedantic
18:35:59 * ehird messes with gnome appearance settings. http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6913/screenshotrdn.png
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18:53:34 <ehird> http://www.silentpcreview.com/prolima-megahelams Oh my god YES.
18:57:16 <ehird> nooga_: No. Not yuck.
18:57:22 <nooga_> i will not take screenshots
18:57:33 <nooga_> on this goddamn machine by apple
18:58:27 <nooga_> i gues that UI was created to be soothing, and yes, it's necessary because dev under osx makes me boil
19:03:03 <nooga_> hi, i'm a mac. and i'm a pc
19:14:35 <Deewiant> Woot! I realized the obvious workaround to #2339 and CCBI 2 passes Mycology again!
19:17:23 <Deewiant> 'course, it took a few hours of hacking to implement the workaround
19:18:13 <ehird> Deewiant: what was the workaround?
19:18:16 <ehird> also SWEET ASS ON A STICK <3
19:18:29 <Deewiant> Mercurial, and not yet committed
19:18:36 <Deewiant> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2339 - last comment is the workaround
19:18:44 <Deewiant> Obvious, of course, in hindsight :-P
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19:19:31 <Deewiant> ehird: I'll convert it to git when I get this branch merged with the CCBI-1 changes of the past 8 months
19:19:49 <ehird> if it's 2, why are you using substantial code from 1
19:19:51 <Deewiant> I haven't dared do it as long as I have two different branches around
19:20:21 <Deewiant> Well, er, because I have an essentially complete Befunge-98 implementation with a billion fingerprints?
19:20:32 <Deewiant> Of course I want to reuse as much as possible :-P
19:20:40 <Deewiant> It's fricking 9k lines of code
19:20:41 <ehird> Deewiant: So why are you making a 2?
19:21:00 <ehird> Deewiant: Cleanup isn't exactly a major version bump.
19:21:19 <Deewiant> But the cleanup makes cool things possible
19:21:27 <Deewiant> Like MVRS, trefunge, unefunge, etc
19:22:20 <Deewiant> Hm, workarounds for 4 DMDFE bugs in 47 lines of code
19:24:42 <nooga_> what are fingerprints?
19:25:32 <Deewiant> The extension mechanism of Funge-98
19:26:08 <ehird> nooga_: they define the instructions A-Z
19:26:16 <ehird> "OOF"(...) uses FOO
19:26:22 <Deewiant> Essentially, you give a 32-bit value to ( and it overrides A-Z
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19:42:05 <fizzie> Deewiant: Incidentally, I saw that bp09 4k intro you were advertizing today on a big screen (the DOT people were showing bp09 prods in the T1 lecture hall 18-20), and it was still neat; but also neat was the second-best one, which was actually a 1k intro. Since, you know, 4096 bytes is so much, it's hard to figure out use for all those bytes.
19:42:17 <Deewiant> Yes, I saw the 1k one as well.
19:42:32 <Deewiant> TBH I think it should have won, 1k is insane. :-P
19:44:31 <ehird> You guys have demosceners demonstrating shit at your university?
19:44:41 <ehird> Fucking hell, Finland. Stop being so awesome.
19:44:44 <fizzie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMaNxyHhH6A is the 1k one apparently.
19:44:59 <Deewiant> ehird: Just a student union or whatever it's called.
19:45:25 <Deewiant> Not especially awesome, IMO. Likely to happen at any university.
19:45:30 <fizzie> Yes, some sort of sub-organization of the student union. And it's not especially large or active one.
19:45:35 <Deewiant> Awesome, sure, but not special.
19:45:58 <fizzie> Demosceney stuff is rather more popular than the average here in Finland, though.
19:46:02 <ehird> i wonder if they used the & trick
19:47:09 <ehird> lament: I tried to make that once
19:47:13 <ehird> then I realised it wasn't meaningful.
19:50:09 <ehird> GeoCities will close later this year.
19:50:09 <ehird> Why is GeoCities not accepting new customers?
19:50:11 <ehird> We have decided to discontinue the process of allowing new customers to sign up for GeoCities accounts as we focus on helping our customers explore and build new relationships online in other ways. We will be closing GeoCities later this year.
19:54:15 <nooga_> f-script is quite nice eso lang
19:54:23 <nooga_> together with objective c
19:55:06 <ehird> F-Script = Smalltalk in almost all ways.
19:55:17 <ehird> Objective-C = C, except [...] denotes Smalltalk land. Not hard.
19:55:25 <nooga_> wtf are things like NSArrayWithObjectsAndKeys
19:55:27 <ehird> Cocoa = umm, have you ever used gtk? Qt? Windows APIs?
19:55:41 <ehird> nooga_: according to google, that class does not exist.
19:55:53 <ehird> If you're going to dis, try and have the facts on your side.
19:55:58 <nooga_> [PleaseDoMeAFavorAndDiePlease]
19:56:20 <ehird> Right, you're an idiot.
20:13:47 <fizzie> I misparsed that oklomusic URL as "a nice creamy melody"; or I guess that was intentional?
20:15:03 <Deewiant> Hmm, took a bit of pondering just now to realize "icecreamy"
20:17:29 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbDyUY0ho4 ← I want a monitor this high DPI.
20:19:35 <okloduk> fizzie: yes yes, it is intentional.
20:19:58 <okloduk> i was gonna put it as anicemelody first, but then i realized no one would get it.
20:20:11 <okloduk> because anice... is the default parsing anyway
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20:32:18 <ehird> 20:31 andrewSC: i spent alot of time learning forth last night and i think doing this recursively with a variable would be the easiest thing todo
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21:02:49 <oerjan> argh, C:\RECYCLER is a virus?
21:02:52 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:03:03 * oerjan hopes AVG can remove it
21:03:50 * oerjan wonders if he should run the full scan more often than every 14 days...
21:05:25 <oerjan> i started a full scan with AVG free, and it has found 4 trojan files so far
21:05:53 <oerjan> 3 of them in the C:\RECYCLER directory, which a bit of googling hints is a virus thing
21:06:46 <oerjan> moreover i think i recognize those files as something AVG removed before, from the old version i had of simon tatham's puzzles
21:07:17 <oerjan> also, there was a trojan in a file in my documents folder which i don't recall putting there at all
21:07:20 <ehird> c:\recycler is legit; things inside may not be
21:07:34 <ais523> it's where all the files you delete are stored
21:07:43 <ais523> viruses often hide there because people don't think of looking there
21:07:48 <oerjan> ok maybe recycler just kept it then
21:07:51 <ais523> and because Windows doesn't display it as part of C by default
21:07:55 <ehird> c:\recycler is not the recycle bin
21:08:03 <ais523> ehird: oh, that's c:\deleted
21:08:07 <ais523> what's c:\recycler, then?
21:08:07 <ehird> it's some sort of fucked up alternate recycle bin
21:08:23 <ehird> ubuntu 9.04 is nice.
21:08:53 <ehird> http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6913/screenshotrdn.png ← nice.
21:09:02 <ehird> i have said this before
21:09:07 <Deewiant> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/171694 - recycler vs. recycle bin
21:09:38 <ehird> (That theme is "new wave dark menus" controls, but with the window colour as #D9D4CC, and the window border as Dust)
21:09:49 <ehird> basically, dust + new wave dark menus + #D9D4CC window.
21:09:53 <AnMaster> I thought it was c:\trash or something?
21:10:48 <AnMaster> ehird, meh, I only used translated windows. And it translates randomly. c:\Program Files -> c:\Program c:\Document and Settings is not translated.
21:11:19 <ais523> it's ~/.local/share/Trash/files on here
21:11:28 <ais523> that explains why my .local is so big, at least
21:11:34 <Deewiant> I don't think I've ever seen a program that would be 100% translated :-P
21:12:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, actually, most KDE apps tends to have complete translations to Swedish
21:12:58 <ehird> ais523: I turned compiz on by mistake and can't get it off.
21:13:03 <ais523> BSD /bin/true is completely translated
21:13:04 <ehird> as in, it doesn't work in this vm
21:13:12 <ais523> ehird: System | Appearance | Desktop Effects, set to "none"
21:13:21 <ais523> * System | Preferences | Appeareance
21:13:29 <ehird> ais523: yeah, because seeing as my system is broken, I can get a gnome session up
21:13:43 <ehird> i have a very nice text console :-)
21:13:44 <ais523> boot into gnome safe mode?
21:13:52 <ehird> it tries to start compiz.
21:13:57 <ais523> what, even failsafe gnome/
21:14:09 <ehird> AnMaster: failsafe gnome
21:14:16 <AnMaster> and specifically since when was it windows.
21:14:44 <AnMaster> ehird, this is a lot easier when you do your config by editing text files. ;P
21:14:49 <ehird> gnome does that too.
21:14:57 <ehird> except with a sane ui on top.
21:17:25 <ehird> ais523: DISPLAY=:0 metacity --replace
21:17:37 <ais523> heh, that's something rather different
21:17:49 <ais523> that's not "don't load compiz", but "tell metacity to boot off compiz and use itself instead"
21:17:57 <ehird> then I use that to fix it
21:18:04 <ehird> dunno, I'm rebooting
21:21:30 <oerjan> crashing VMs could be a nice geek band name
21:24:06 <ais523> /someone/ has to create a notable band called Main Page sometime, Wikipedia have been waiting for it for years
21:24:13 <ehird> Nah, it should be a book.
21:24:24 <ehird> then it has an excuse
21:24:36 <Deewiant> http://dontclickthis.whatingods.name/battletoads.jpg
21:24:41 <oklopol> haha, i fixed my keyboard by stepping on it :D
21:24:55 <ais523> the founder of MySQL just forked it
21:25:13 <ais523> we can have MySQL vs. MySQL now, could be fun
21:25:57 <ehird> "Sun Microsystems announced three new MySQL products: MySQL 5.4, MySQL Cluster 7.0 and MySQL Enterprise Partner Program for 'Remote DBA' service providers."
21:26:00 * ais523 wonders how many other people have had to fork their own program
21:26:30 <ehird> Well this is irritating
21:26:37 <ais523> Deewiant: is that a Lua ~=, or a Perl ~=?
21:26:46 <ais523> wait, those are both =~
21:27:00 <ais523> I never seem to remember it
21:28:53 <fizzie> MATLAB's "not equal" is ~=.
21:29:03 <fizzie> And MATLAB's unary logical not is ~, too.
21:29:59 <fizzie> They use ! for shell-escapades.
21:30:01 <ehird> ais523: can i just nuke compiz from the face of the ubuntu
21:30:30 <ais523> ehird: sudo apt-get remove compiz-gnome should work
21:30:43 <fizzie> Deewiant: ¡x could be equal to !!x.
21:30:45 <ais523> but removing something that's in Ubuntu by default causes it to no longer update your set of packages to contain the default set
21:31:17 <ais523> also, my download speed seems to be basically zero for trying to install updates
21:31:24 <ehird> oerjan: please don't
21:31:25 <Deewiant> Quylthulg should use !x¡ for negation
21:31:26 <ais523> I'll do it at the University tomorrow instead, and meanwhile, wonder if I'm being throttled
21:31:27 <ehird> ais523: a friend's too
21:31:35 <oerjan> there's no reason why there cannot be an esolang named "Main Page", isn't it? >:)
21:31:36 <ehird> he started it this morning; it'll finish in an hour and a half
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21:31:41 <ehird> ais523: high demand
21:31:54 <ais523> Jaunty release was released today, wasn't it?
21:32:12 <Deewiant> Whaat, Chris Pressey is writing Haskell now
21:32:13 * ais523 system | administration | software sources
21:32:26 <ais523> I'll do the ping-all-the-mirrors test there
21:32:36 <ais523> and change back to the main mirror in a couple of days
21:33:06 <ehird> Deewiant: Since 2007-06-17, apparently.
21:33:16 <ehird> w/ http://catseye.tc/projects/hev/
21:33:31 <ehird> -- Reference Interpreter for the Hev Programming Language
21:33:32 <ehird> -- Begun November 2005, fleshed out October 2006, polished off June 2007
21:33:32 <Deewiant> ehird: http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/questions/2003-11/1332.html sez he's liked it since at least 2003.
21:33:34 <ehird> Deewiant: since 2005 at least.
21:33:49 <Deewiant> http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2001-February/002738.html 2001.
21:35:01 <ehird> ais523: ok, now I haev gnome without metacity.
21:35:25 <ais523> how can you tell it's Gnome, tehn?
21:35:43 <ehird> ais523: erm... the panels?
21:35:51 <ais523> oh, I thought the window manager managed those
21:40:56 <ehird> it still doesn't work
21:41:15 <ehird> I'd ask #ubuntu, but, uh, you can figure out why not.
21:41:43 <ais523> hmm... an anon asks on Groklaw how to leave a comment "there"
21:42:00 <ais523> I misread it as "here", and am about to leave them a description of how to comment on Groklaw when I realise the irony of what I'm doing
21:43:42 <ehird> How can I make it do metacity...
21:44:08 <ais523> can't you use your install just to turn visual effects off?
21:44:14 <ais523> that switches the WM to metacity at the same time
21:45:23 <ais523> rename all your dotfiles?
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21:46:09 <ehird> selected Normal effects, pressed enter to hit the invisible "DON'T KEEP DAMMIT:"
21:46:15 <ehird> and voila, now logging out and logging about in retains metacitiness
21:46:38 <AnMaster> <ais523> /someone/ has to create a notable band called Main Page sometime, Wikipedia have been waiting for it for years <-- what about Main Page (band)
21:46:43 <AnMaster> I'm sure that is what will be done
21:46:49 <ehird> AnMaster: where will the disambiguation be put
21:46:53 <ehird> on the top of the main page?
21:46:54 <ais523> oh, the don't keep timeout works both ways
21:47:14 <ais523> I think they should move the Main Page to Portal:Main now, in order to avoid such problems in future
21:47:25 <ehird> ais523: and break every bookmark ever
21:47:35 <ais523> there'd still be a redirect
21:48:02 <ehird> so where does the disambig go
21:48:17 <AnMaster> better idea would be to move it to WP:Main Page
21:48:37 <ehird> if it has to be moved, Portal:Main is correct.
21:49:11 <AnMaster> also why would it break bookmarks
21:49:25 <AnMaster> rather than http://en.wikipedia.org
21:49:32 <ehird> when you go to wikipedia
21:49:36 <ehird> the url is /wiki/Main_Page
21:49:38 <ehird> if you hit bookmark
21:49:41 <ehird> you get that as your bookmark
21:49:50 <AnMaster> if you hit bookmark you strip that bit off
21:49:59 <oerjan> Main Page itself has to be the disamb page
21:50:03 <ehird> nobody else does though.
21:50:03 <AnMaster> or wait I'm out of touch with average person again I think
21:50:11 <oerjan> otherwise you would need too many clicks to get to the portal
21:50:14 <AnMaster> why is the real world so stupid.
21:50:16 <ehird> AnMaster: it's better to have /wiki/Main_Page.
21:50:22 <ehird> AnMaster: one less redirect.
21:50:28 <ehird> (this is, after all, the kind of thing you care about.)
21:50:45 <AnMaster> ehird, actually I don't have the wikipedia page book marked
21:50:48 <ais523> actually, there was a consensus to rename it to the null string if technically possible; unfortunately, it wasn't
21:50:52 <AnMaster> I use wikipedia in my search bar
21:51:04 <ais523> my Wikipedia bookmark is Special:Watchlist
21:51:06 <ehird> ais523: that's still articlespace
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21:51:31 <AnMaster> google as default, then wikipedia, wikit<spelling for the dictionary thing, forgot it> and finally esolang wiki
21:52:05 <AnMaster> anyway not a book or a band named main page
21:52:19 <AnMaster> even more reason for a disambig page
21:52:23 <ehird> a book with accompanying soundtrack
21:52:28 <ehird> performed by a band of the same name
21:52:33 <ehird> also, the soundtrack is called Main Page
21:52:38 <ehird> the book is turned into a film
21:52:45 <ehird> with a different soundtrack
21:52:47 <AnMaster> why don't some admins get together and start an electronic band named main page
21:52:49 <ehird> which is published as Main Page, by Main Page
21:52:51 <ehird> but it's a different band
21:52:53 <ehird> and a different album
21:52:58 <ehird> AnMaster: non-notable
21:52:59 <AnMaster> with all live performances being tele conferences!
21:53:19 <ehird> even with specialized programs w/ algorithms to combat lag
21:53:36 <AnMaster> ehird, you tried to perform music across a teleconference?
21:54:04 <ais523> <Groklaw> Your last comment was 45 seconds ago. This site requires at least 45 seconds between comments
21:54:10 <ais523> rounding error, I suspect
21:54:15 <ehird> AnMaster: i recommend that if this Main Page band comes into fruition, it is a noise band
21:54:18 <ehird> then you can't notice
21:54:18 <AnMaster> actually it might be easier to get an established artist to call his last album "Main Page"
21:54:31 <ehird> you could be the millionth collaborator of merzbow!
21:54:53 <ehird> ais523: what's the name of the sell-your-soul restricted extras package?
21:54:54 <ehird> AnMaster: noise music
21:55:05 <ehird> AnMaster: it's music that is just noise.
21:55:07 <AnMaster> and what do you mean with "merzbow"
21:55:18 <ehird> merzbow is a crazy ass japanese noise musician
21:55:22 <ais523> ehird: ubuntu-restricted-extras, IIRC
21:55:25 <ehird> who's also hugely vegan
21:55:36 <ehird> unfortunately, you can kill animals with his music
21:55:40 <ehird> so that didn't really work out
21:55:43 <ais523> I'm not sure if the restricted repo is available by default, it's trivial to turn it on via software sources if it isn't
21:55:58 <ehird> it is by default indeed
21:56:00 <ehird> but no such package
21:56:16 <ais523> ubuntu-restricted-extras - Commonly used restricted packages
21:56:26 <ehird> AnMaster: mp3 and what not
21:56:43 <ehird> ais523: here's what i get for a synaptic search for restricted
21:56:46 <ais523> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse, ttf-mscorefonts-installer, adobe-flashplugin | flashplugin-nonfree, unrar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, libavcodec-unstripped-52, gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
21:56:48 <ehird> linux-restricted-modules-BLAH
21:56:53 <AnMaster> I never had those issues since I began using source based distros. ;P
21:56:59 <ais523> ehird: you mustn't have the repo with it in, then
21:57:06 <ehird> I have all enabled
21:57:21 <AnMaster> ehird, why would nano be restricted...
21:57:38 <ais523> why would you think they are?
21:58:01 <ehird> 21:56 ehird: ais523: here's what i get for a synaptic search for restricted
21:58:02 <ais523> AnMaster: things that turned up in a search for "restricted" in package descriptions
21:58:14 <ais523> ehird: what does apt-cache search ubuntu-restricted show for you?
21:58:29 <ais523> did you do an apt-get update (or the GUI equivalent) after enabling the restricted repo?
21:58:38 <AnMaster> ehird, it ended up above "<ais523> Recommends:[...]" meaning I missed it
21:58:46 <ehird> ais523: it shows up, huh
21:58:48 <ehird> and i didn't have to eable it
21:58:49 <AnMaster> since text jumped so much while I was reading it
21:58:59 <ais523> you have /synaptic/ set to only show open source stuff
21:59:06 <ehird> I specially looked at synaptic
22:00:33 <oerjan> eable should so have been a word
22:01:17 <ehird> what's a low traffic archive
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22:01:56 <ehird> what have we been talking about
22:01:59 <ehird> ubuntu-restricted-extras
22:02:22 <AnMaster> ehird, You mean searching in synaptic takes 33 minutes
22:02:35 <AnMaster> well considering number of packages in debian ubuntu I'm not surprised :P
22:02:42 <ehird> if only you made any sense
22:03:09 <AnMaster> ehird, well I guess if I knew what "<ehird> what's a low traffic archive" meant, what you said would have made some sense.
22:03:38 <AnMaster> I guess you mean then unpacking the archive (*.deb) after downloading it has an ETA of 33 minutes...
22:04:04 <AnMaster> ehird, so no you didn't make any sense.
22:04:26 <oerjan> in soviet russia, sense doesn't make any you
22:04:44 <AnMaster> thank you for your non-constructive comment.
22:04:55 <ais523> an apt search is only a few seconds
22:04:57 <okloduk> in soviet russia, russia soviet in.
22:05:01 <ehird> grumpy AnMaster is grumpy
22:05:03 <ehird> STOP PUNNING OERJAN
22:05:07 <ehird> YOU'RE UNCONSTRUCTIVE
22:05:13 <AnMaster> ehird, so what did you mean then.
22:05:46 <AnMaster> ais523, maybe you can explain it
22:06:26 <oerjan> YOU TWO GO SIT IN A CORNER. NO, _NOT_ THE SAME ONE.
22:06:27 <AnMaster> oerjan, good imitation of ehird
22:06:41 <ais523> AnMaster: time to download the packages from the repositories, obviously
22:06:45 <ehird> this is amusing but pathetic
22:06:53 <ais523> it would be even slower in a source distro if it was similarly loaded
22:06:57 <ais523> because binaries are normally smaller
22:06:59 <AnMaster> repository != archive in my vocabulary.
22:07:07 <AnMaster> Also doesn't ubuntu have *mirrors*?
22:07:39 <oerjan> it's all smoke and mirrors
22:07:42 <ehird> archive.ubuntu.com
22:07:55 <ehird> oerjan: thank you for your non-constructive comment.
22:08:04 <AnMaster> ais523, usually gentoo mirrors are fast. There are 3 or 4 in Sweden for example.
22:08:07 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, all of them are likely to be loaded today
22:08:09 <okloduk> oerjan: you're being a bit abconstructive imo
22:08:19 <ehird> AnMaster: BECAUSE UBUNTU MADE A NEW RELEASE
22:08:22 <ehird> SO LOADS OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING IT
22:08:27 <oerjan> okloduk: i am merely trying to defuse the situation
22:08:29 <ais523> AnMaster: because 9.04 was released today
22:08:35 <ehird> AnMaster: because we've been talking about it
22:08:39 <Deewiant> Binaries normally smaller? Not in my experience.
22:08:44 <ais523> Ubuntu releases are generally big enough to make mainstream technology news
22:08:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, depends. cfunge binary is smaller than cfunge source at least.
22:08:59 <ehird> ais523: he's too hardcore for such mainstream things.
22:09:01 <ais523> Deewiant: well, most actual binaries are written in C or C++
22:09:14 <ais523> most of the rest is scripting languages, which are sent as source in both binary and source distros
22:09:34 <Deewiant> Hmm, yes, I suppose in the average case it is so.
22:09:45 <AnMaster> but a stripped cfunge binary is smaller than the source
22:09:49 <ais523> well, pedantically speaking, most binaries are written in machine code
22:10:14 <AnMaster> even though some code is compiled twice (#define + include a private header, change defines and include it again)
22:10:40 <ais523> wow, #ubuntu has FloodBot1, FlootBot2, and FloodBot 3
22:10:48 <ais523> I wonder why they have three of them
22:11:01 <ais523> AnMaster: manage the ban list, it seems
22:11:07 <ehird> yay, se.archive.ubuntu.com is fast
22:11:08 <Deewiant> With full stripping ccbi is over twice the size of its source
22:11:08 <ais523> presumably according to certain rules
22:11:10 <AnMaster> ah, so not flood the channel then
22:11:20 <AnMaster> ehird, As usual Sweden wins ;P
22:11:27 <ehird> AnMaster: .fi has faster net
22:11:47 <AnMaster> ehird, the ubuntu fi mirror or in general?
22:11:50 <ais523> there's also ubottu, but it just spouts back canned advice on request
22:12:06 <AnMaster> anyway gentoo mirrors are not very often loaded since rolling releases make upgrades rather non-dramatic :D
22:12:16 <Deewiant> Even if I take into account the static size for a D executable, CCBI's source is clearly smaller than the binary.
22:12:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with or without debug inf?
22:12:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Fully stripped and optimized.
22:12:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sec *checks for cfunge*
22:12:55 <Deewiant> For C, I don't doubt that it's the other way around.
22:13:09 <Deewiant> Since C is both more verbose and smaller. :-P
22:13:23 <ais523> strange, someone just joined #ubuntu, then said an email address
22:13:53 <Deewiant> Of course, most of my Haskell stuff by far exceeds the size of its source.
22:13:53 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes it is. a 64-bit cfunge, with t support, tracing and 64-bit cells is 118 k stripped
22:14:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, cfunge *.c and *.h is much larger
22:15:09 <ais523> ooh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8015623.stm
22:15:25 <ais523> microsoft sold less last quater than the same time the year before
22:15:27 <Deewiant> 2.0 is currently 215K but most of the fingerprints are the exact same as in 1.0, they should be a fair bit smaller when redone
22:15:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, a 32-bit cfunge without t and with 32-bit cells is 83 K stripped
22:15:47 <Deewiant> 1.0.20 binary is 588K stripped
22:15:52 <AnMaster> (the other one had exact bounds)
22:16:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm using -Os here of course
22:16:13 <Deewiant> Hmm, wonder if ldc has something like that
22:16:25 <okloduk> i wonder if any big company has ever just decided to stop at the top.
22:16:34 <Deewiant> I, of course, am using the standard binary and not one to support my conclusions in any particular way :-P
22:16:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with -O3 and 64-bit build (32-bit cells) a stripped cfunge is 224K
22:16:50 <AnMaster> which is still smaller than source
22:17:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "<Deewiant> For C, I don't doubt that it's the other way around."
22:17:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway D isn't exactly low level
22:18:06 <Deewiant> It's the lowest-level language I typically use
22:18:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I assume your build is not statically linked
22:18:32 <AnMaster> I don't support linking cfunge statically. It might work. I haven't tested it for a long time.
22:18:35 <Deewiant> No, it's dynamically linked to stuff like ncurses, c, pthreads
22:19:15 <AnMaster> cfunge is linked to libncurses.so.5, libm.so.6, librt.so.1, libc.so.6, libdl.so.2 (???), libpthread.so.0 here says ldd
22:20:11 <Deewiant> I have libgcc_s.so in addition to those
22:20:42 <AnMaster> well libgcc_s.so makes sense since you probably use exceptions and what not
22:20:47 <AnMaster> iirc it handles such stuff too
22:20:48 <ais523> maybe AnMaster didn't use gcc
22:20:53 <ais523> or maybe it's statically linked there
22:20:59 <ais523> libgcc also handles things like multiplication
22:21:00 <AnMaster> ais523, I used gcc. But libgcc_s.so isn't always needed.
22:21:02 <ais523> some of it's very low-level
22:21:13 <ais523> anything which can't be expressed in a few machine instructions goes there
22:21:25 <AnMaster> ais523, sure but all operations can be expressed with that here I suspect
22:21:40 <ais523> so if you're doing a sort of multiplication that the processor doesn't have an instruction for, it uses a wrapper in libgcc to convert the argument lengths, etc
22:21:45 <ais523> gcc-bf compiles libgcc three times
22:21:54 <ais523> and links three copies of it into the final library
22:22:02 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm pretty sure gcc very often inlines it.
22:22:10 <AnMaster> Anyway I don't do 128-bit multiplication
22:22:43 <AnMaster> I guess if I compiled with 64-bit cells and -m32 I might see it
22:22:45 <Deewiant> Oh yes, this GCC talk reminds me that ais523 was supposed to be unhappy about something in the 4.4.0 changelog
22:23:07 <Deewiant> Somebody said it, you probably weren't here then
22:23:09 <AnMaster> ais523, gcc 4.5 will drop protoize/unprotoize
22:23:17 <ais523> oh, I don't care about that
22:23:22 <AnMaster> they are marked obsolete in 4.4
22:23:27 <ais523> I was using the version of unprotoize that was distributed with bcc
22:23:42 <ais523> you don't need protoize to compile C-INTERCAL with gcc
22:23:52 <ais523> you need unprotoize to compile it with a K&R compiler, though
22:24:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why would you care about that
22:24:19 <AnMaster> everyone have used ELF for *ages*
22:24:21 <Deewiant> I'm always a bit sad to see old stuff disappear
22:24:33 <Deewiant> My kernel has support for a.out you know!
22:24:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if you go maintain it I'm sure they will keep it
22:24:46 <AnMaster> also I heard plans to drop a.out in linux kernel soon too
22:25:18 <AnMaster> I expect ais523 won't like that though
22:25:36 <ais523> oh, I don't want it dropped in kernel
22:25:41 <ais523> although I'm happy for it to be a separate module
22:25:49 <ais523> I don't mind it dropped in compilers
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22:25:55 <AnMaster> why would they have to maintain what nobody use.
22:26:01 <ais523> and because some old compilers only output in a.out, and I have to be able to test them somehow
22:26:10 <AnMaster> Clearly you can run a 2.4 kernel in a VM if you need it
22:26:28 <Deewiant> Just use an a.out to ELF converter
22:26:35 <Deewiant> Write one if one doesn't exist
22:26:36 <ais523> oh, that's fine, if those exist
22:27:03 <AnMaster> well dynamic libraries are handled very differently for example
22:27:10 * ais523 wonders why apt-cache search a.out returns 1358 packages
22:31:17 <fizzie> It's a regexp search by default, and matches everything like lAyOUT?
22:32:08 <fizzie> Oh, and especially AbOUT.
22:33:34 <fizzie> Too bad that apt-cache search doesn't eat the ~X-style special-patterns used by aptitude's search.
22:39:30 <fizzie> Aptitude has things like "~sfoo" for packages in section foo.
22:49:07 <ehird> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8015623.stm
22:49:58 <ais523> I'm annoyed, I came here for the GIMP documentation, but I wanted to download it via the repos and that's unlikely to work atm
22:50:39 <ehird> ais523: use se.archive.ubuntu.com
22:50:51 <ais523> ehird: I've started on porting DNA Maze, I spent part of this morning writing a compiler from Windows resource script to sanity
22:51:03 <ehird> ais523: what graphics lib?
22:51:21 <ais523> I haven't decided yet, it'll either be SDL or Allegro
22:51:32 <ehird> please SDL, allegro is a bitch on OS X :-P
22:51:42 <ehird> but it was a bit of a pain
22:51:51 <ehird> if allegro has a lot nicer api use that I suppose
22:52:00 <ais523> I know allegro, and I don't know SDL
22:52:08 <ehird> then use allegro, although I hear SDL is simple
22:52:13 <ais523> SDL's even lower-level than allegro, I think
22:52:39 <ehird> if you want high level try pygame
22:53:00 <ais523> I don't want high-level
22:53:09 <ais523> given that I'm porting, what I really want is something with similar capabilities to GDI
22:53:16 <ehird> ais523: that would be SDL
22:53:24 <ehird> I'm pretty sure SDL is exactly at GDI's level
22:53:26 <ais523> Allegro can do that fine, to do it on SDL I might have to write a bit of graphics lib, but there shouldn't be much of a problem
22:53:39 <ais523> I thought SDI just gave you a bitmap to draw on using your own code
22:53:44 <ais523> and didn't have commands for lines, etc
22:54:02 <ehird> I -think- it has some trivial drawing functions; if not you could add those.
22:54:06 <ehird> But everything else is very GDI I believe
22:54:16 <ais523> on the other hand, DNA Maze was almost entirely blitting
22:54:44 <ais523> I was starting to get wise to the concept of portability when I ported it to Windows from DOS...
22:55:13 <fizzie> SDL (well, the 2d graphics side) is rather much oriented around the concept of a simple 2d framebuffer, and surfaces you can blit from onto it. It doesn't have the GDI vector-style plotting stuff, I don't think.
22:55:49 <ehird> ais523: are you changing any of the graphics or whatever?
22:55:51 <ais523> it might be interesting to use the pure-C bits of Allegro as the graphics library, and SDL as the display library, actually
22:55:51 <ehird> or just making a direct port
22:55:58 <ais523> ehird: just porting for the time being, I think
22:56:05 <ehird> ais523: how much drawing stuff do you actually use?
22:56:10 <ais523> just blit and text output, IIRC
22:56:23 <ehird> don't see a reason to use allegro, then
22:56:45 <ais523> I'll have to learn SDL, but that's unlikely to be a problem
22:57:14 <fizzie> Obviously there's some simple-drawing libraries on top of SDL; at least SDL_gfx and SDL_draw exist, the first one seems to be in Debian repositories too.
22:57:29 <ehird> you could just use that
22:57:35 <ehird> since most everyone with SDL has SDL_{audio,ttf,gfx,blah}
22:57:41 <ehird> you'll need SDL_ttf for the text stuff
22:58:26 <ais523> and presumably SDL_image for the graphics?
22:58:31 <ais523> I wonder what format I should store them in
22:58:42 <ais523> they're in .bmp at the moment, because I just converted them from the Windows RC file
22:58:49 <ais523> decompiling your own programs FTW!
22:58:55 <ehird> ais523: .bmp seems reasonable
22:59:01 <ehird> for things like this, I think two versions is probably best
22:59:04 <ehird> a completely-faithful port
22:59:11 <ehird> and an "integrated" evrsion
22:59:15 <ais523> I don't intend to necessarily be faithful
22:59:15 <fizzie> PNG is the other white meat, uh, I mean, reasonable bitmappy graphics format.
22:59:15 <ehird> although for the former you could use WINE
22:59:20 <ehird> does dna maze work under WINE?
22:59:41 <ais523> I checked recently and it goes haywire whenever your rotation direction or speed changes, for some reason
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23:01:12 <ais523> I'm pretty sure what's happening is just a missing Invalidate() in the original source, but that would mean being able to recompile it
23:01:17 <ehird> ubuntu installed swfdec or some other shit free flash player
23:01:22 <ehird> which renders youtube as a gray box
23:01:26 <ais523> did for me too, I just uninstalled it again
23:01:36 * ehird replaces it with Adobe'
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23:01:42 <AnMaster> <fizzie> PNG is the other white meat, uh, I mean, reasonable bitmappy graphics format. <-- other? The first being tiff I guess
23:01:52 <ehird> do read a few lines
23:02:10 <ehird> bmp is reasonable; have you read the spec or are you just performing acts of anti-MS fud
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23:02:22 <ehird> ais523: if it is, it's darn trivial regardless
23:02:23 <ehird> it's barely a format
23:02:24 <ais523> I have read the spec for bmp, at least the Microsoft version
23:02:25 <AnMaster> ehird, I have seen enough of the file format
23:02:29 <fizzie> It is very reasonable if you have your graphics as BMP files already.
23:02:34 <ais523> it has a simple header, and the bitmap is stored upside-down
23:02:47 <ehird> AnMaster: tiff is backwards.
23:02:51 <AnMaster> starting in the wrong end of the bitmap as far as I remember
23:02:51 <ehird> although it has an option to go forwards.
23:03:05 <ehird> AnMaster: so tiff can't be reasonable is bmp is.
23:03:16 <ehird> AnMaster: nobody uses the tiff-go-forwards flag
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23:03:34 <fizzie> And certainly BMP is a format, since it supports RLE compression.
23:03:35 <ehird> ...apart from one-off hacks.
23:03:54 <ehird> wait, supposedly this is adobe flash
23:03:58 <pikhq> And it has a header and all.
23:04:11 <AnMaster> ehird, does bmp support more than 8 bits per channel
23:04:46 <AnMaster> odd, I have yet to see a program that is able to save it like that for bmp
23:04:58 <fizzie> The infalliblepedia says "relatively well documented and free of patents", so it's... at least not horribly proprietary.
23:05:28 <fizzie> Also someone has linked the word "documented" in that sentence to the page about "Documentation". *That* seems rather spurious.
23:05:34 <ais523> AnMaster: MS Paint can save it 24 bits to the pixel
23:05:38 <ehird> default format in xp
23:05:56 <AnMaster> really, I don't remember seeing that in paint. But I admit not using paint since windows 98 time
23:06:02 <AnMaster> since it is a horrible program
23:06:06 <ehird> it's only since xp.
23:06:08 <ehird> also, ms paint is great.
23:06:28 <ehird> for quick doodles and also more elaborate stuff
23:06:30 <fizzie> 24 bits to the pixel pretty much means 8 bits per channel, not more?
23:06:51 <ais523> bmp doesn't have an alpha channel
23:06:54 <AnMaster> ehird, inkscape is way more useful. Or Illustrator if you prefer costly software.
23:07:08 <ehird> AnMaster: Because raster editors are so like vector editors.
23:07:19 <ehird> Watch me show extreme ignorance of images!
23:07:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, I was meaning 16 bits per channel in fact.
23:07:29 <fizzie> Yes, that's what I thought you meant.
23:07:39 <ais523> I installed kolourpaint here, because none of the default Ubuntu paint programs fill the same niche as MS Paint, but Kolourpaint does
23:07:51 <AnMaster> ehird, raster images: gimp, photoshop
23:08:04 <AnMaster> there is no other use for raster images than photos or scanned drawings
23:08:04 <ehird> gimp is utterly useless for the kind of things mspaint is good at
23:08:07 <fizzie> Certainly you can write "48" as the bits-per-pixel value in the BMP header; I find it unlikely that anything's going to decode it right, though.
23:08:13 <AnMaster> ehird, mspaint isn't good at anything
23:08:21 <ehird> AnMaster: yay, begging the question
23:08:26 <ehird> a wonderful fallacy
23:08:53 <AnMaster> ehird, it doesn't even support smooth antialised lines with the pen or such
23:09:11 <AnMaster> for anything that is worth drawing
23:09:15 <ehird> doodles are worthless unless accompanied by lens flare, other filters, and antialiased pens
23:09:19 <ehird> ooh, inherent worth of drawing!
23:09:24 <ehird> just like you shouldn't program in esolangs
23:09:32 <ehird> as they're not worth programming in
23:09:32 <fizzie> There is the whole genre of pixel art; I do think that has the right to exist.
23:09:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, yes I agree with that. But it tends to be far away from all stuff I have seen done in ms paint
23:09:59 <fizzie> Although I also think there are more pixel-art-optimized programs than mspaint. Though mspaint has the availability thing going for it.
23:10:02 <ehird> fizzie: probably akin to his taste in music. was pixel art invented in the 1900s or later?
23:10:18 <ehird> AnMaster: a large portion of pixel artists use ms paint.
23:10:23 <AnMaster> ehird, why not read my last line before acting stupid
23:10:34 <ehird> because I started typing before you sent it, dolt.
23:10:56 <AnMaster> ehird, it was over 10 seconds in between. I guess you are lagged.
23:11:05 <ehird> no, I guess you're lagged
23:11:09 <ehird> as I've never been significantly lagged before
23:11:10 <AnMaster> ehird, and are you looking at keyboard or screen when typing.
23:11:13 <ehird> and you've been lagged for 30+ seconds.
23:11:22 <fizzie> I think there was some open-source Deluxe Paint port, too; one would think that'd be popular, given the amazing popularity of the original. Though maybe it suckeded.
23:11:56 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway I would assume you to be smart enough to use backspace when you see the line you are typing is no longer relevant.
23:12:20 <ehird> this would be more worthwhile if you used arguments instead of resorting to semantic pedantry on the messages themselves
23:12:25 <AnMaster> ehird, ah that is your response when you can't think of any witty reply
23:12:27 <ehird> where more = a miniscule amount greater
23:12:38 <ehird> god you're such an irritating shit
23:13:31 <AnMaster> ehird, talking about yourself in second person again I see. Anyway mspaint is indeed useless. There are way better programs for pixel art. There are way better programs for "quick doodles", there are way better programs for image editing.
23:13:39 <AnMaster> And it can't do more than 8 bits per channel.
23:13:45 <lament> ehird: been eating spicy food?
23:13:55 <AnMaster> 24 bits per pixel is not more than 8 per channel.
23:14:26 <ehird> AnMaster: you admitted that to being a mistake
23:14:32 <ehird> you can't then use it as a point of argument
23:14:37 <ehird> that's simply dishonest and stupid
23:15:07 <AnMaster> I accepted I might have been wrong, but it seems I was right.
23:15:11 <ehird> 23:05 ais523: AnMaster: MS Paint can save it 24 bits to the pixel
23:15:11 <ehird> 23:05 AnMaster: really, I don't remember seeing that in paint. But I admit not using paint since windows 98 time
23:15:13 <ehird> 23:06 fizzie: 24 bits to the pixel pretty much means 8 bits per channel, not more?
23:15:15 <ehird> 23:07 AnMaster: fizzie, hm right
23:15:17 <ehird> 23:07 AnMaster: fizzie, I was meaning 16 bits per channel in fact.
23:15:19 <ehird> you admitted that you meant something else
23:15:22 <ehird> you can't therefore say you meant it as that all along
23:15:29 <ehird> no? that was a verbatim quote
23:15:31 <ais523> who saves any sort of bitmap 16 bits to the channel?
23:15:39 <AnMaster> ais523, my camera does, to tiff
23:16:24 <AnMaster> ais523, though I think the raw file format actually uses 12 bits per channel, but tiff can't handle that.
23:16:37 <AnMaster> so when selecting tiff it rounds it up to 16
23:16:53 <ais523> does it look any different than 8 to the channel?
23:17:13 <fizzie> ais523: It lets you do exposure-correction and things like that better.
23:17:54 <ais523> ah, I see; it's just the same for an image when humans view it, but if there's something wrong with the image it's easier to correct
23:17:57 <AnMaster> ais523, btw only the very last version of gimp is able to handle more than 8 per channel. now that it has started using that http://www.gegl.org/ thing
23:18:19 <AnMaster> the last version still doesn't handle it. but it soon will
23:19:30 <AnMaster> ais523, depending on what gamut you are using 8 bits may be too few
23:19:43 <AnMaster> with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Wide_Gamut_RGB_color_space for example
23:20:00 <AnMaster> I use non-wide Adobe RGB most of the time
23:20:35 <AnMaster> which is still better than sRGB
23:20:48 <AnMaster> ais523, so yes there are lots of reasons for more than 8 bits per channel
23:22:11 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ehird, does bmp support more than 8 bits per channel
23:22:11 <AnMaster> <ais523> AnMaster: MS Paint can save it 24 bits to the pixel
23:22:11 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> 24 bits per pixel is not more than 8 per channel.
23:22:13 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: you admitted that to being a mistake
23:22:15 <AnMaster> <ehird> 23:07 AnMaster: fizzie, I was meaning 16 bits per channel in fact.
23:22:17 <AnMaster> <ehird> you admitted that you meant something else
23:22:19 <AnMaster> <ehird> you can't therefore say you meant it as that all along
23:22:23 <AnMaster> <ehird> no? that was a verbatim quote
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23:22:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ehird, I was *CLARIFYING*
23:22:25 <ehird> AnMaster: fuck you, shitflooder
23:22:27 <AnMaster> I'm not sure how ehird's logic worked there
23:22:29 <AnMaster> I said "more than 8 bits per channel" all along
23:22:32 <fizzie> The raw formats tend to be (or at least some are; certainly those which are really a raw dump of the sensor contents) more complicated than just "array of pixels, with equal amounts of bits per each RGB channel", anyway, since the sensor isn't like that; quite often there's in each 2x2 square one blue, one red and two green pixels. (And some have a fourth color filter there in place of the second green.)
23:22:48 <AnMaster> I was confused by ais and ehird yes
23:23:06 <AnMaster> but I said "more than 8 bits per channel" all along
23:23:13 <AnMaster> and that is what the logs will prove
23:23:25 <AnMaster> I just wish ehird could admit being wrong for once.
23:24:45 <AnMaster> fizzie, yes I'm well aware. I usually end up with raw image -> ufraw (adjust stuff) -> tiff (adobe rgb) -> gimp (here you lose the extra info currently)
23:25:07 * AnMaster hopes gimp will properly support color management some day
23:25:46 <AnMaster> in fact I might go mac just because of that. ColorSync + photoshop. For such stuff macs currently win by a wide margin.
23:25:57 <AnMaster> though gimp is better at some stuff certainly.
23:28:46 <AnMaster> ais523, fizzie: photoshop supports 32 bits per channel btw.
23:32:33 <fizzie> Yes, I guess it also does floating-point color channels.
23:33:35 <fizzie> The HDR-specific formats tend to do that.
23:35:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, and lots of non-standard colour spaces
23:37:15 <AnMaster> though I don't care a lot for that
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