< 1240186397 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it wrong that I saw this "runs ← → ↑ ↓ ↖ ↗ ↙ ↘" and immediately started designing a new 2D language? < 1240186430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240186433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it contains random walks it's fine. < 1240186442 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1240186444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bad idea. < 1240186472 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, is there a unicode character for a Compass Rose? < 1240186485 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make a good random-direction operator < 1240186546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240186659 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :✵ < 1240186708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well on this subject i can say with strong confidence that i don't have the foggiest idea. < 1240188008 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :☀ < 1240188019 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :☼ < 1240188087 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suns, not an eight-pointed pinwheel star, but what can ya do. < 1240188382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240188671 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1240188677 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1240189914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=598 ! Factor is so pretty. < 1240191813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1240194063 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1240194701 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1240198620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240198786 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1240200284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1240201951 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1240202661 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1240205519 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240205806 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240209845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooo < 1240209847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooo < 1240209848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooo < 1240209849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooo < 1240209850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooo < 1240209852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1240210995 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah @ the mouseover on xkcd 570: "Somewhere out there is a company that has actually figured out how to enlarge penises, and it's helpless to reach potential customers." < 1240211421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1240211433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exams -> < 1240212539 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240214399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1240214400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1240217133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1240219112 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1240221322 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-046-253.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240221345 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1240221358 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-046-253.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240221463 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1240221474 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-046-253.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240221782 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240221793 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-046-253.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240222099 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240222110 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-046-253.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240222171 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1240225333 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer" < 1240226292 0 :oklopol_!n=ville@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1240226339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240226686 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1240226698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1240228022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err is there a mathematica for linux < 1240228028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1240228030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1240228041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i have it. < 1240228045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica 7.0 for Linux x86 (32-bit) < 1240228045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright 1988-2008 Wolfram Research, Inc. < 1240228051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go < 1240228066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but < 1240228070 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1240228098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica 7.0 for Linux x86 (64-bit) < 1240228098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright 1988-2008 Wolfram Research, Inc. < 1240228101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i like have one that is a program < 1240228103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more bits than you. < 1240228104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enroll at TKK and you'll have it < 1240228112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1240228119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMME PLZ < 1240228129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just need it for a second < 1240228140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to calculate something just ask for that :-P < 1240228140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe a few minutes but anyway < 1240228145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have any special one-second licenses. < 1240228146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1240228152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this mathematica course < 1240228159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was this set of exercises you needed to do < 1240228168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mine had a few errors < 1240228168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a course, shouldn't they provide some systems to do them on? < 1240228168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i need to fix. < 1240228179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but only at uni < 1240228184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No remote access? < 1240228203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's a remote access to the windows part of the machines < 1240228213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux ones don't have it? :-/ < 1240228217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know this, i know nothing about computers. < 1240228231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err it's just on a few computers in math department :+ < 1240228234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:\ < 1240228247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1240228253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange; one would think they have some sort of site license there too. < 1240228269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they do, and i just haven't realized it's on all machines. < 1240228273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1240228316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea how much there is to fix, may well be just a few details, because supposedly it was "very well done" < 1240228335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at raw file < 1240228361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right this is quite viewable. < 1240228369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not very editable tho < 1240228403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mathematica Player is free-as-in-beer for viewabilitics. < 1240228410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Windows, OS X and Linux, to boot. < 1240228415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't do "edit", of course. < 1240228477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1240228479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try that < 1240228527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also something like a hundred meggobytes to download, since it includes the whole Mathematica computronics in it, so that you can run Mathematica-powered "applications" with it. < 1240228530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1240228556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1240228560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that linux? < 1240228583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :159 MB for the Linux download, 88 MB for the Windows one. I am not quite sure why. < 1240228600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emblah. < 1240228619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll just go do it at uni tomorrow < 1240228632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably stuff like libraries which they can expect to find on any Windows machine < 1240228659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Linux, they could say 'you need Pango' or whatever, but instead package it with the executable. < 1240228665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or then not; just guessing. < 1240228706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could download and poke at it to find out, but there's a personal-information-form I don't like to fill for no real reason. < 1240228732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason for not wanting to or no reason for filling < 1240228750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason for filling. I guess there's not much reason for not wanting to, either. < 1240228891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons are like raisins, they taste good but too much of them makes you sick and also they're not very pretty. < 1240229001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i did think it was silly of you not to want to fill that, but it seems i automatically closed the website when i saw the forms myself :P < 1240229009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens again < 1240230250 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://cosmic.mearie.org/tmp/pyfunged-20090420.jpg no way complete, but you have an idea. < 1240230273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty! < 1240230287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're doing a lot better than I am, I was doing something similar and barely got started :-) < 1240230315 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2863/pyfunged20090420.jpg for archival purpose) < 1240230471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Have you seen http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/tmp/frontend-prococol.pdf ? < 1240230493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's old and not exactly good in its current state but it might be interesting < 1240230515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to improve it but then CCBI got stuck on a compiler bug and I somewhat lost interest < 1240230542 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, but i knew that spec exists and i think it's worth implemented < 1240230552 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for pointer btw. < 1240230558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea basically is, yes, but there are some problems with it < 1240230579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I had some related notes in a text file somewhere but I can't seem to locate them now < 1240230644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I left the future of it to you iirc < 1240230651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1240230672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Only you can stop Funge fires. < 1240230673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI1 can't really support it though < 1240230745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it will need someone to write a frontend... < 1240230761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what lifthrasiir is doing pretty well at < 1240230776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good. Personally I hate UI programming. < 1240230825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes the spec needs work < 1240230982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, if I ever had any notes I certainly don't any more < 1240231255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember saying you did. < 1240231354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think you remember me saying I did. < 1240231433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think I don't remember either of you saying anything regarding the remembrance of anyone wrt. to the matter of anyone remembering you saying someone did. < 1240231475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/t\. to/t./ < 1240231553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err yeah that was what i meant < 1240231685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my logs from 2008-08 say that I made lots of comments during 2008-03 so I guess that'll do for notes. < 1240232472 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240233594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1240237076 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1240237494 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1240239676 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1240240179 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1240240616 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1240242518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1240242545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I liked xkcd today < 1240242621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't think it was sleep-inducing? < 1240242650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1240243084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? < 1240243216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you going to continue with jitfunge at some point? I have considered doing something like jitfunge myself in C instead, if jitfunge development is dead. < 1240243632 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-63-51.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1240243748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240244376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1240244626 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1240244628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, I do have plans, but I'm still not making any promises. < 1240244681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plans are trivial < 1240244729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1240244729 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even dental plans? < 1240244813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess so, given that they are plans < 1240244971 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1240245009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does linuxmathica have a gooey < 1240245132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1240245160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1240245161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen? < 1240245164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shot of that is < 1240245192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty much the same as anywhere else, I imagine < 1240245227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but! < 1240245236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linuxlinks.com/portal/content/reviews/converting/Screenshots/Screenshot-Mathematica.png has something < 1240245299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my factor patch got accepted (even though it had a syntax error and was refactored a few minutes later) < 1240245335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core bootstrap completed in 9 minutes and 54 seconds. < 1240245335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bootstrap completed in 9 minutes and 54 seconds. < 1240245337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate waiting < 1240245348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it uses qt? < 1240245350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1240245353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1240245357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell :-P < 1240245358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks it < 1240245362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the scrollbars < 1240245370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the checkboxes, and menus < 1240245372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's qt that is < 1240245377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever you say :-P < 1240245387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should care about these things < 1240245434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that < 1240245476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they're important; also one day you might rely on them < 1240245519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I rely on being able to tell from appearance whether an app uses Qt for its GUI or not < 1240245559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dude don't you even know. < 1240245563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When the robots are taken over, and you can tell friend and foe based on the GUI toolkit? < 1240245573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/have/ < 1240245576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/taken/taking/ ? < 1240245588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :When the robots are taken over | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1240245595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the robots are taken over that's fine by me :-P < 1240245608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wahh, it's not what I meanted. < 1240245614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _would_ depend on by whom, wouldn't it < 1240245621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Whom do you this < 1240245626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose it would < 1240245737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: when you start seeing gui's like macs', except _more_ perfect, that's when you can start to worry < 1240245751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then clearly the superior aliens have arrived < 1240245754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that when the robots are seducing me? < 1240245754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240245762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scareded! < 1240245778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scarified. < 1240245796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarificized < 1240245798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that is easy to misspell as "sacrified". < 1240245816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those may easily lead into eachother < 1240245859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of dyslexics who like to scarify kids < 1240246031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that would be disturbing even with the real definition of "scarify" < 1240246365 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an email from a "hat and cap manufacturer in China". < 1240246372 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if this is spam or directed advertisement :P < 1240246387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240246409 0 :ais523!i=93bc93e6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-56566acb70cd181b JOIN :#esoteric < 1240246464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1240246468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it's unsolicited commercial email < 1240246478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240246480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle... < 1240246480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1240246481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buys... < 1240246483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sun? < 1240246495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Sun < 1240246505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were basically all right. < 1240246506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP to sheds? < 1240246511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Oracle buy sun? < 1240246514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240246517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have just learned. < 1240246518 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, WTF? < 1240246522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they just want Java < 1240246526 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM was going to buy Sun and then didn't. < 1240246527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what they'll do with the rest of the company? < 1240246532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, no. < 1240246532 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Oracle?!??!?! < 1240246535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris. < 1240246537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too. < 1240246542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But jeez.. < 1240246543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1240246544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1240246544 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Oracle want Solaris? < 1240246545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle < 1240246547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Own < 1240246549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL < 1240246556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: sun are quite valuable many big corporate customers < 1240246570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, thank god for postgre < 1240246573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql is about to suck :D < 1240246574 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, "want" as in "will expand our business to include" < 1240246582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Of course. < 1240246598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ummm... yeah. Fuck Oracle. < 1240246602 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as opposed to "want" as in "can actually use this as a tool to improve/promote our current products" < 1240246626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql's a low-level database-like product < 1240246635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sad. I liked Sun even though I don't like Jav < 1240246636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1240246638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather different from other databases, which are much higher level < 1240246691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I kind of wish IBM had bought it ... < 1240246705 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then Oracle bought IBM ;) < 1240246720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, IBM may be enterprisey, but they're not Oracle-bad. < 1240246758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1240246759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtualbox < 1240246761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openoffice < 1240246763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope they're ok < 1240246765 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for pointing out the Oracle-owns-MySQL-ness. < 1240246771 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They'll be forked. < 1240246772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Sun-internal announcement (quoted in /.) says: "Oracle's interest in Sun is very clear - they aspire to help customers simplify the development, deployment and operation of high value business systems, from applications all the way to datacenters." < 1240246774 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If necessary. < 1240246777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: True. < 1240246780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1240246782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1240246789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: openoffice is impossible to code on < 1240246794 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's not clear at all :P < 1240246794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure sun people are the only ones really involved < 1240246813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Oracle aspires to help customers shit rainbows and unicorns." < 1240246830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what we all aspire to? < 1240246832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitting unicorns sounds sort of risky < 1240246849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rainbows don't? < 1240246860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rainbows are soft, delicate. < 1240246860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainbows are just light < 1240246872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorns are _sharp_ < 1240246872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they come with liquid as well < 1240246882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1240246884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicorns are soft. < 1240246888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their horns curl in. < 1240246893 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, the hats offered on this site are all garbage anyway. < 1240246896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While being shitted. < 1240246900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shat. < 1240246906 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky me I don't have to decide whether this is spam or directed advertisement then :P < 1240246907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they probably want to sell Oracle servers as a sort of a total package, including operating system and all. < 1240246907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Shattered. < 1240246931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shatonated. < 1240246935 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Who manufactures SPARC? They could sell the whole fucking box :P < 1240246946 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shatner'd? < 1240246948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEVASTATING SHATTINATION < 1240246954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurMonstersAreDifferent < 1240246959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say that in a deep, echoy, movie trailer voice < 1240247016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: lessee, aren't directed advertisers just spammers that know too much about you? < 1240247056 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Once it gets so narrow that the average recipient of the mail, even if they were spam-gullible, wouldn't go to the site, it can no longer be spam :P < 1240247078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1240247091 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Spam is all about finding the intersection between "spam-gullible" and "wants product" (and so it helps to have "must be gullible to believe this is a real product" there too) < 1240247129 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, that is, finding the intersection by spamming everyone, of course :P < 1240247187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually Oracle's front page "Oracle buys Sun" link puts it very clearly: "The acquisition combines best-in-class enterprise software and mission-critical computing systems. Oracle plans to engineer and deliver an integrated system--applications to disk--where all the pieces fit together so customers do not have to do it themselves." < 1240247212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there ya go. < 1240247226 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris becomes "the OS for that weird database system" < 1240247233 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody ever uses it for anything else again. < 1240247236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do also continue with "Customers benefit as their system integration costs go down while ...", but one would think they are more interested in diverting those costs to their pockets than to actually lower the costs, per se. < 1240247259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot have all sorts of interesting theories about what Oracle will do < 1240247262 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Customers benefit when Oracle gets more money, don't they? ;) < 1240247280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them even think they wanted MySQL, so as to control both high-end and low-end database software < 1240247358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You don't get it < 1240247363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big businesses rely on Solaris backwards compatibility < 1240247369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They pay an arm and a leg to keep it working < 1240247371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$$$$$$ < 1240247379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the whole Oracle-buying-Sun thing is drawing worrying parallels in my mind with Caldera buying SCO < 1240247393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when sco was nice guys? < 1240247397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me neither I was born after that. < 1240247412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there are two SCOs, just to confuse matters < 1240247423 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@dialup-4.88.162.69.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1240247426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caldera was 1994 < 1240247427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the SCO fits < 1240247436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original SCO became Tarentella, and are still going in a completely unrelated way to the whole mess with tSCOg, which is what Caldera became < 1240247436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they became evul a year before I was born < 1240247441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1240247442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tSCOg are the bankrupt vexatious litigants < 1240247444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are tarentella good, then? < 1240247449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm a C question... < 1240247453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarantella are pretty neutral in all this < 1240247459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're more or less uninvolved < 1240247467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're a division of Sun! < 1240247468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 2005 < 1240247469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahah < 1240247473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic < 1240247480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is #ifdef and #if, #else and #elif, but no #elifdef? < 1240247489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elifdef? < 1240247492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bonkers < 1240247499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering why it isn't there < 1240247500 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have wondered that many times :P < 1240247500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you may as well just write it out in full < 1240247505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#elif defined(X) < 1240247519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, was wondering why there wasn't a short hand notation for it < 1240247528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also elifndef of course < 1240247556 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is madness! < 1240247562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, can you mix-and-match like "#ifdef FOO .. #elif 1 == 2 ... #elif defined(BAR) ... #endif"? < 1240247563 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS! IS! THE! C! PREPROCESSOR! < 1240247571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know < 1240247575 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah < 1240247586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hello 2006 < 1240247590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how've you been getting on < 1240247596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are snakes on your plane? < 1240247611 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so full preprocessor directive being "#(el)?if(n?def)?"... < 1240247611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were a load of snakes loose on a plane recently < 1240247612 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: THIS! IS! SNAKES! < 1240247619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it wasn't quite as dramatic as the film, though < 1240247622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on! a! PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1240247625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took them a while to even notice they were missing < 1240247626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shot* < 1240247628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1240247631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link or it didn't happen < 1240247637 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: None big enough to eat babies? :P < 1240247638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was on reddit. < 1240247641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1240247642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, it happened < 1240247642 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1240247643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1240247652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, logical flaw. < 1240247658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1240247665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ehird trying to prove? < 1240247673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that monkeys are green < 1240247688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've _had_ it with these motherfucking spartans on this motherfucking channel! < 1240247729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I found this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_8000000/newsid_8001900/8001964.stm < 1240247733 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1240247737 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH THE TROPE-OSPHERE (not to be confused with the troposphere) IS DISINTEGRATING < 1240247740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the BBC's childrens news program < 1240247747 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1240247748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, link? < 1240247756 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........................... X_X < 1240247763 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying that people are overusing tropes :P < 1240247796 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan put it over the edge. < 1240247827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should have put in more exclamation marks too < 1240247836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, ubuntu's git hasn't been updated because the person who assigned themselves to it has publicly stated that he hates git < 1240247842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love disfunctional ecosystems < 1240247851 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1240247874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_D < 1240247876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the gnome screensaver config thing < 1240247890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: hitting "random" will no longer be able to bring up xkcd.com/404/ < 1240247896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BORING < 1240247898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SUCK < 1240247904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop ruining things. < 1240247946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1240247953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadn't noticed that before < 1240247971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a 404 page? or the 404th comic? < 1240247972 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never clicks random :P < 1240247982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a 404 page < 1240247984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a joke < 1240247994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo now goes and ruins the joke by complainng that "Random" can hit it < 1240248000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i yell at him for being a jerk < 1240248005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1240248006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't complain < 1240248021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked what's going on. Blame someone else for complaining < 1240248027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure you complained in theory. < 1240248049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out this mess of C preprocessor < 1240248084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From SL: "Hello Sgeo..I got the Antiposeballscript from a friend" < 1240248089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1240248106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which is? < 1240248163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what about a _little_ context for us non-SL'ers? < 1240248170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I pasted this link earlier, but you weren't here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/54c90bb925b9d331# < 1240248184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I sell the mentioned "Antiposeballscript" < 1240248217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised. second life is genius: it emulates physical uncopyability in a world of bits and bytes < 1240248217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I'm trying to describe a tree like: {pure C version, SSE versions: {32-bit cells, 64-bit cells} * {x86_64 inline asm: {pic, nopic}, x86_32 intrinsics: {gcc style, icc style}}} in preprocessor. < 1240248229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it completely destroys the point of being digital and is thus comfortable < 1240248233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I saw it. < 1240248238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1240248238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yesterday. < 1240248240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1240248242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bouncer is always here :P < 1240248244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I laughed < 1240248251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I wished it malloced a cat < 1240248252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And does so poorly. < 1240248254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, creators choose whether or not something can be copied < 1240248261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Bahahahahahaha < 1240248313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need to copy stuff in Second Life is a non-official SL client. < 1240248315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer worlds where copying doesn't exist. < 1240248326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not true for scripts < 1240248355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they're not composed of bits? < 1240248361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet they're on computers? < 1240248362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck < 1240248366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're executed server-side. < 1240248366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell the record companies < 1240248370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the bits of the script don't get transmitted to the client < 1240248389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yay, you mean like a music service where you buy music and intsead you just get access to a stream of it? < 1240248390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1240248401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that the same thing < 1240248417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it not < 1240248420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a direct analogy < 1240248431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Maybus" < 1240248431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably kind-of like accessing a website and it not sending you the server-side code < 1240248437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a music streaming service the content is given to the client. < 1240248446 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That analogy is like this analogy; it's not clever and it makes no sense. < 1240248451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the bit where you've paid for the code. < 1240248471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is, I think, that the music that's being streamed is what you actually want, if you could save a copy of the stream you could use it in future < 1240248480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. it's even worse, then < 1240248484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with the server-side code, you'll probably want to be able to run it again with different data < 1240248497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my essential point is that second life is shit and stupid. < 1240248507 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's something we can all agree to :P < 1240248514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SL is fun! < 1240248519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Second Life can be worthwhile, but most of SL is stupid. < 1240248520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no u < 1240248522 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it, Sgeo is banned. < 1240248536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: WHY AREN'T YOU SYMPATHETIC HE PUT UP A STALL < 1240248537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEN < 1240248537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, non-conformist thoughts are a bannable offense around here. < 1240248538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN < 1240248543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAKED PEOPLE SET UP SHOP NEXT TO HIM! < 1240248548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAKED! NOW IT'LL BE MARKED AS ADULT! ;__; < 1240248566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MENTIONING THAT LAW IS GROUNDS FOR A BAN < 1240248593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're trying to pass something off as scarce in a post-scarcity economy. That makes you DUMB. < 1240248594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've seen (via somethingawful), isn't SL anyway full of ambulatory penii? < 1240248601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MOM IS GROUNDS FOR A BAN < 1240248610 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ambulatory penii" ... < 1240248613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom, ground, in a pan. < 1240248620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Second Life is like... The Web. 99% of it is porn. < 1240248627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ambulatory... penii? < 1240248634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1240248638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sometimes people do that, but mostly it's peaceful < 1240248649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORN IS UNPEACEFUL < 1240248651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORN IS LIKE WAR < 1240248653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAR ON THE SENSES < 1240248656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, since this involves low-quality 3D graphics, it's not exceptionally good porn, either. < 1240248659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a griefer attacks, if all that happens is a flying penis, I'm grateful < 1240248670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GRIEFER" THEY EXIST TO CAUSE GRIEF UPON OUR FINE LAND < 1240248672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often it makes the area lag to death < 1240248681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH! < 1240248695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION observes that Second Life is written horribly. < 1240248706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's buzzword compliant! < 1240248732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone written an automated second life lag system? < 1240248739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be the fun < 1240248745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(true)copy(this); < 1240248753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second Life has gotten forkbombed. < 1240248754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1240248772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in second life, I suppose you could have a forkbomb with genuine forks < 1240248777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was about to say that < 1240248778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a turkey bomb would be better < 1240248783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should copy themselves and explode at the same time < 1240248827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are limits to how often items can copy themselves. A "grey goo" fence. I'm not sure exactly what it looks for though < 1240248828 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl wtf ... I had Amazon set up on a credit card that just expired, I forgot to update it, I bought an MP3 yesterday (still after the card expired) and got to download it, then they cancelled that order. But ... I already have the MP3 :P < 1240248848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly amazon should add DRM < 1240248852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they could revoke it < 1240248943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was done because of a previous forkbomb. < 1240248971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about two items that copy each other? < 1240248972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Wow. < 1240248989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah, Robin Hood and Friar Tuck. :) < 1240249007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the limitation is from the originating object. THere's only so much that can be done < 1240249030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=GreyGooFence < 1240249067 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. The grey goo. < 1240249073 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Patriotic Nigras. < 1240249083 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personnaly, my favorite is the Unlimited Fail Work < 1240249097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... It keeps track of which objects were and weren't copied by an object? < 1240249098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a hole in their Timebomb which let me write a jamming device against it < 1240249107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess so < 1240249138 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.patrioticnigras.org/wiki/Unlimited_Fail_Works < 1240249152 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.patrioticnigras.org/w/images/3/3c/UFW_1.jpg < 1240249152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably make the SL server run out of memory by just rezzing a few forks. < 1240249155 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some nice trollan < 1240249167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.patrioticnigras.org/w/images/3/3c/UFW_1.jpg ← this is pretty < 1240249184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And knowing how "well" SL is written, it'd probably not come up automatically. < 1240249252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point, I'm going to modify the client so that it automatically selects physical objects when I want it to. This will stop the physical objects from moving, meaning that attacks such as that won't have such a laggy effect < 1240249274 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do a no script zone < 1240249291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you retards stop talking about SL or I'll kick you all with my kick magic powers. < 1240249293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, I like scripting < 1240249311 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about SL < 1240249314 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: YARLYINOLIEKWTF < 1240249315 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only about trolling SL < 1240249321 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only thing SL is good for < 1240249330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you think that I can magically make whereever I'm standing be a no-script zone? < 1240249349 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, your own zone < 1240249352 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You jewger < 1240249360 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You niggot < 1240249362 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You jewgot < 1240249373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... jewgot. < 1240249374 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1240249376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't touch the client. It makes Microsoft code look sane. < 1240249380 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's better < 1240249384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so much XML... SO much XML...) < 1240249386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SL's client is open sauce? < 1240249390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1240249401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, but it's written by monkeys at a typewriter. < 1240249404 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is even a special trollan version :D < 1240249405 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: wtf, you bought an mp3 on amazon. < 1240249405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. I can find exploits in it. < 1240249409 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shooped Life < 1240249415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what's wrong with amazon mp3 < 1240249427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1240249433 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense than buying an mp3 on itunes < 1240249434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, iirc, all that does is prevent being banned based on .. some hardware related stuff, I think < 1240249446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you can't buy an mp3 on itunes < 1240249449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can buy an aac, though < 1240249451 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1240249453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1240249453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1240249461 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even get proper mp3s... < 1240249467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: AAC > MP3 < 1240249468 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aac is better anyway < 1240249475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ogg is fine too. < 1240249477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you can convert aac to other formats iirc < 1240249479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDDA > AAC. < 1240249479 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when it's DRM-lamitude AAC. < 1240249480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240249481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAC is open. < 1240249485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/8719/166323.aspx (SL related) < 1240249485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: iTunes has no DRM nowadays. < 1240249490 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: QUAY?! < 1240249490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a few bits left. < 1240249490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: iTunes did rm -rf DRM. < 1240249494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, faac <> cdda? < 1240249496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF SINCE WHEN < 1240249496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: HI WELCOME TO MONTHS AGO < 1240249503 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAC >>>><>>><> MP3 < 1240249505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AAC isn't lossless you ninny. < 1240249506 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used iTunes because Apple is lame in general :P < 1240249511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1240249520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but iirc cdda is < 1240249525 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuna ><> salmon < 1240249525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdda isn't a format < 1240249526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I confused it < 1240249526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just pcm < 1240249530 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDDA is pseudolossless. < 1240249530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDDA is *raw* 16-bit PCM, man. < 1240249537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly < 1240249538 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the CD mastering process is lossy. < 1240249541 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where the loss comes in. < 1240249541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used FLAC. Now I use ALAC 'cuz iTunes don't do FLAC. < 1240249549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lossless so no lockin or w/e < 1240249558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have mp3s and aacs too < 1240249563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or are you claiming uncompressed is lossy?! < 1240249564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the seven seas. < 1240249572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not LOSSLESS < 1240249574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm claiming CDDA is better than AAC. < 1240249574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just uncompressed < 1240249579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not lossless. < 1240249590 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain explodes. < 1240249597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can uncompressed NOT be lossless. < 1240249599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240249608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lossless refers to a property of compression algorithms. < 1240249613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't any compression at all, thus no loss. Thus lossless. < 1240249616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ok true. < 1240249644 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, CDDA refers to PCM /on a CD/, and like I just said, mastering CDs is a lossy process :P < 1240249645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if it's the famed lossless "null" compression algorithm at work there?½ < 1240249646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you think it meant? < 1240249656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, argh I was just about to mention it < 1240249664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Where's the loss in it? < 1240249665 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"better" clearly means "bigger", right? < 1240249670 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so CDDA wins < 1240249671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes cdda have been compressed with the null compression algorithm < 1240249677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus cdda is lossless < 1240249678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could still blow it up a bit < 1240249680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not arguing, just curious) < 1240249684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write every bit twice for example < 1240249685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1240249688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -_-' < 1240249705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as fizzie already said < 1240249708 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you ever wondered why .bin is bigger than .iso? It's because .bin stores every bit of data on the CD, whereas .iso only stores what a digital reader is supposed to read. It also includes data recovery facilities so that if bits are mismastered the reader can fix it. < 1240249751 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also why if you dump a (full) CDDA as a .wav then try to burn that to a CD, it won't fit. < 1240249798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, so this extra data only exists for data cds? < 1240249804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mismastered/disc is damaged/ < 1240249818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, there's even more data for data CDs. < 1240249821 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right, yes, but in reality the mastering/reading process is never 100% *shrugs* < 1240249824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra data exists for both < 1240249830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240249832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah what pikhq said < 1240249845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: data cd's cannot have errors. < 1240249850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to the CD format's error correction data, the ISO 9660 filesystem has error correction data. < 1240249856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like 3 levels of error correction < 1240249864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um? Yes they can have. Just scratch it badly enough < 1240249869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd's are scary < 1240249878 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD'S TASTE LIKE CHICKEN < 1240249879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i mean they aren't allowed to have < 1240249881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music cd's are < 1240249887 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egg-zactly. < 1240249895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1240249896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for VCDs; those rely on the MPEG error correction) < 1240249900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1240249908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "sigh"? < 1240249915 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's why CDDA is uncompressed and yet not lossless :P < 1240249938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he sighed at me telling him something that was not weird and stupid, then laughed at GregorR's funny pun < 1240249941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few anti-copying mechanisms put weirdnesses in the correction data deliberately < 1240249951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "A deep and prolonged audible inspiration or respiration of air" < 1240249957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, right, "sigh. I'm wrong. I'm just going to say sigh." < 1240249961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wiktionary < 1240249978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes I remember seeing such a CD once. < 1240249996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think ehird knows what a sigh is < 1240250007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ssh, he's being condescending < 1240250015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cdparanoia doesn't give a damn. < 1240250020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that cd with such copy protection was not a legal copy btw. So clearly it had failed to do it's job. < 1240250023 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PLACE CLEVER TOPIC HERE | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1240250023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1240250029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1240250032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a copy would remove the protection < 1240250038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. when there's no theoretical possibility of doing anti-copying, you need to use methods that work in practise. < 1240250040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1240250048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saying they work. < 1240250051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or realise that preventing digital copying is retarded? < 1240250067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, that's probably much more profitable < 1240250083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I sighed due to GregorR's puns < 1240250085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the record for preventing something being digitally copied about 10 hours? < 1240250089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some recent fukm? < 1240250090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: drm-free places are doing just fine < 1240250092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*film? < 1240250094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pun* < 1240250099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the whole idea of intellectual property is bunk < 1240250100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few weeks; CSS took a while. < 1240250110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need complete and utter copyright reform to account for digital < 1240250122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if there's a pirate party uk? < 1240250124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but CSS just encrypted the disk, the analog hole was still there < 1240250131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ITYM "a-hole" < 1240250136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i will never agree with you on that. < 1240250146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cool story bro < 1240250178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway why would "weirdnesses in the correction data" prevent copying. < 1240250179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't help but agree. Modern copyright law is unenforcable in the digital age. < 1240250194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the copy doesn't have the weirdnesses in < 1240250199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program checks to see if they're there on startup < 1240250208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I saw a copy which did have the weirdnesses in it. < 1240250226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't do that much. Use cdrdao instead of dd, so that the subchannels are copied. < 1240250229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite many Playstation games put stuff in the CD sub-channels because those used to be rather hard to duplicate, or even read with a normal CD drive. < 1240250262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57 pikhq: Doesn't do that much. Use cdrdao instead of dd, so that the subchannels are copied. < 1240250262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57 fizzie: Quite many Playstation games put stuff in the CD sub-channels because those used to be rather hard to duplicate, or even read with a normal CD drive. < 1240250269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the legit order < 1240250273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240250274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did those lag out of sync < 1240250274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240250276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1240250282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are sub-channels on a cd? I'm afraid I don't really know a lot about the format of a cd. < 1240250363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if dd doesn't copy it, I guess it is somewhat like resource/data fork style of thing. < 1240250374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on hardware level? < 1240250375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's metadata like current position or track start locations on the sub-channels. < 1240250429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how could a program check if the correction data was wrong. I mean: if a drive can read it you can copy it clearly, if it can't read it you can't copy it, nor can you verify it. < 1240250434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I missing something else < 1240250439 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240250553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One example was an early law passed by the European Parliament to support DRM in response to widespread buzz about unauthorized digital music downloads being held in computer memory caches. Apparently reasoning by analogy to "caches of arms," the use of computer memory caches was outlawed." < 1240250559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that story. Always have. < 1240250574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now the i7's small L2 doesn't matter. < 1240250578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can copy them nowadays; but some hardware used to automatically compute the subchannel values, so you couldn't actually write what you want there; even though you might be able to read it. I am not really very familiar with the details here, though. < 1240250589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the L3? < 1240250600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just don't use it and you'll be okay. < 1240250618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can still have it on the disk images all you want. ;) < 1240250633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw it sounds like an urban myth, or something that quickly was reverted < 1240250646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a myth. < 1240250667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'mov' instruction is against the law; use 'movnti' for everything! < 1240250672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/298498.stm < 1240250676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that misunderstands it < 1240250680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't just apply to the net < 1240250684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, bbc. < 1240250704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Professor Stephen Hawking, one of the world's leading scientists, is "very ill" in hospital, Cambridge University has said. " < 1240250751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deciddes to implement Reversi in Factor. < 1240250757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be a learning experience, to say the least. < 1240250773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw one odd thing about microsoft cds... the product key... Was it the same on all copies or was every cd unique? < 1240250778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolreversi < 1240250783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: every cd unique, dumbo < 1240250783 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unique, I think < 1240250784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1240250785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversi on an infinite board! < 1240250788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wouldn't pressing such cds then have been impractical < 1240250791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what's so lol about reversi < 1240250792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1240250796 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: how do you tell who wins? < 1240250798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: reversi is awesome < 1240250798 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it kinda looks like Go :) < 1240250809 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversi is very different from go, though < 1240250815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversi: Go for people who are too shit-stupid to understand it. < 1240250835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc cd-roms are done by making a master die? < 1240250848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the key wasn't on the cd < 1240250849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't each cd with an unique product key need it's own die? < 1240250851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on the packaging < 1240250855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1240250862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an algorithm validkey(), obviously < 1240250871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the software accepted any of the valid keys? < 1240250873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1240250876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1240250877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1240250880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reversi on an infinite board! <<< would change the game enormously, would probably be considerably less tactical < 1240250883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8 < 1240250895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant++ < 1240250897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sounds like one of them certainly. For which product? < 1240250898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you play reversi on say 18x18? < 1240250902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the "twin sectors" trick in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD/DVD_copy_protection was new to me. There's been quite a lot of thinking about those. < 1240250902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP < 1240250905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240250913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversi is mostly about getting the corners. < 1240250913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's famous < 1240250931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never heard of it before < 1240250948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, first I need a good data structure for reversi. < 1240250951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111-1111111 used to work rather widely as a CD key, too. I think. < 1240250953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero seconds of thinking gives me a 2d array < 1240250975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the board is small exactly because adding more would just make the game longer, and moving the interesting parts further away in the game. < 1240250995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not at all like go imo < 1240251008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't played go much, so i'm not going to say that as a fact. < 1240251010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's one < 1240251245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of copy protection, I quasi-recently (I guess it's was at least a year ago) had my first real frustrating experience, when a bought DVD messed-up with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS refused to work in the mythtv box. < 1240251319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna mythtv box < 1240251323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd never use it < 1240251324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a DVD here that has, as copy protection, corrupted bytes at the very start of the VOB stream. < 1240251324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wannit < 1240251334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which screws up mplayer, but not anything that does DVD navigation. < 1240251341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-sb 5000 away. < 1240251381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We no longer have a MythTV box, actually, since the smoke went out of some hardware, and we discontinued our TV-watching permit. Now I just stick the iBook in that TV stand whenever something needs to be watched. < 1240251409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the smoke stays in, you're good < 1240251411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that DVD watched with an agonizingly slow dd_rescue image-dumping, after which it was watchable. < 1240251419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV-watching permit? Ya mean like the uk's tv license? < 1240251429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be similar. < 1240251435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Finland's TV license. < 1240251444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; is that the official term? < 1240251452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finland < 1240251452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1240251454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240251518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TV fee" is what the official-ish website uses if I poke at the "in English" button. < 1240251539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it fund any national television thangs like the beeb < 1240251545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240251563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "* even the most basic list manipulation functions aren't O(N)" <<< then what are they? less? < 1240251596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, lists are pain < 1240251600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(N^2) indexing? < 1240251604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue < 1240251623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you get 5 from the list [5] ? < 1240251626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most ludicruous thing is how the law's written; it's not a "fee to be paid if you watch TV"; it's "fee to be paid if you're capable of receiving TV broadcasts, even over IPTV or something"; by a strict interpretation, everyone with a computer (read: everyone) in the student apartments of our university should be paying it, since TV channels are multicasted over the LAN there. < 1240251634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lennonmurdertruth.com/footnotes.asp?id=85 < 1240251636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Stephen King Shot John Lennon" < 1240251643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's what it is in ze UK < 1240251648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you think the syntax is? < 1240251652 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240251653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it's the way things are done. < 1240251664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Sweden have TV licenses too. Used to fund public service TV/radio < 1240251668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:20 Sgeo: How would you get 5 from the list [5] ? < 1240251670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240251678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess the syntax < 1240251680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you accidentally buy a DVB-H-capable mobile phone, you're stuck paying that fee for as long as you have it. < 1240251692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "5 of my lsit to get [[[my lisst name is X]]" where X is the list < 1240251700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a mobile phone with TV capability? < 1240251703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1240251715 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no ads on these publicly-funded TV services, right? < 1240251720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5][0] is wrong < 1240251732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, you have to do: < 1240251732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, no ads here in Sweden at least on them. < 1240251739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llList2Integer([5], 0) < 1240251747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that second life language? < 1240251759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks pretty awful < 1240251769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is < 1240251773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...by a strict interpretation, everyone with a computer (read: everyone) in the student apartments of our university should be paying it, since TV channels are multicasted over the LAN there." <<< i read somewhere that that's the official interpretation. < 1240251780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and they also do stuff like news in minority languages and such that none of the commercial channels would want to spend money on. < 1240251790 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, pretty much everyone pays the TV license < 1240251812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: BTW, I'm surrounded by Swedish people all day, it's freaky :P < 1240251812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Sure, I guess it's the only reasonable interpretation of how it's written. It doesn't look like it's having any effect, though. < 1240251816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're supposed to start paying tv license if you have a computer, even if you don't have the software to view tv on your computer. < 1240251830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's considered so easy to remove after usage < 1240251836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not all comps can recv tv < 1240251839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ones with a tv cardy < 1240251840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, Well so am I. But I live in Sweden. I forgot where you were from < 1240251842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there's an llGetObjectDetails(), which is nice, but no llGetObjectDetail(), which means that to get something like another object's position, I have to use lists < 1240251856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They multicast TV channels via UDP at the student apartments. Context, man. < 1240251866 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240251866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but < 1240251868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway you didn't actually answer < 1240251870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:23 oklopol: that you're supposed to start paying tv license if you have a computer, even if you don't have the software to view tv on your computer. < 1240251872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he removed the ctx < 1240251874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what has ConTeXt got to do with this?.... < 1240251879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the ordos if not O(N)? < 1240251885 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm in the If-English-Was-Good-Enough-For-Jesus-It's-Good-Enough-For-Texas States of America. < 1240251895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get a position of an object in a sim if I know its key: < 1240251905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well actually i'm referring to yle starting to broadcast something on their page < 1240251912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying to everyone in finland < 1240251913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llList2Vector(llGetObjectDetails(objects_key, [OBJECT_POS]), 0) < 1240251918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know if that was realized. < 1240251938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, Except Jesus didn't speak English. So that doesn't make any sense. < 1240251949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what was the question? I think I responded "I don't know" to something < 1240251951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh. Well, that... do they actually do real-time "direct" broadcasting there? < 1240251951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Jesus even existed. Which I frankly doesn't care about. < 1240251962 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm quoting a 19th century Texan governor :P < 1240251962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh. well you were listed as an author. < 1240251977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, oh my < 1240251977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: supposedly they were going to, something about olympics or similar dunno < 1240251986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about sports anyway < 1240252014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pointed to the wiki and mentioned some of those points < 1240252019 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: But I think that that phrase succinctly sums up all the stupid things people think about the USA :P < 1240252020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others brought up other points < 1240252026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you miss that pun or just ignored it? < 1240252029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr < 1240252033 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Above :P < 1240252043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just ignored; I'm not sure how I should've reacted, really. < 1240252047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240252067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you never heard of ConTeXt before? < 1240252074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: Combine with the people who think that only the Kings James Bible is accurate. < 1240252082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is included in TeXLive too < 1240252084 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1240252090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, more accurate than the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. < 1240252097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ? < 1240252098 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those people are sooooooooo retarded. < 1240252099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't know how that works. < 1240252102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1240252106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE: tools.scaffold < 1240252106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"resource:work" "reversi" scaffold-vocab < 1240252107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la la < 1240252131 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I think that that phrase succinctly sums up all the stupid things people think about the USA :P (was misdirected to andreou) < 1240252140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what language is this? Also I think you should use tools.screwdriver instead < 1240252148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: factor < 1240252152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240252158 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "la la la" actually part of the language? < 1240252159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: Enjoy misdirected messages much? < 1240252160 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so < 1240252165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, :D < 1240252165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that creates the basic vocabulary directory structure in (factor)/work/reversi/ < 1240252166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, the name does sound familiar, so I guess I've heard of it; never used, though. < 1240252168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: :D < 1240252181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: la ( -- ) "la" print ; < 1240252183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ < 1240252184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la la => < 1240252185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la < 1240252186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la < 1240252188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la < 1240252222 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1240252241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:25 AnMaster: GregorR, Except Jesus didn't speak English. So that doesn't make any sense. < 1240252242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1240252244 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1240252248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never used it either in fact, since after reading about it I found LaTeX was better for the tasks I usually do. < 1240252277 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1240252280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg context is even more typographical than latex? < 1240252280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was ages ago. Do try track the current convo. < 1240252284 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1240252284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1240252301 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error 375: Conversation untraceable. < 1240252335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc it was more about "let user decide design" and latex is more about "let user concentrate on the text and make the computer handle the design instead" < 1240252347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right, awesome < 1240252354 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1240252367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I prefer to just get on with the text rather than spending lots of time on layout. < 1240252377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but layout<3 < 1240252398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, layout is not very useful if there is no text to put in the layout. < 1240252403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grad student sensibilities tell me that LaTeX is the only acceptable system :P < 1240252405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr, looked ages for something andreou had said, get better clients < 1240252410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait there is always Lorem Ipsum (sp?) < 1240252415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mahn you just suck AnMaster < 1240252426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wut < 1240252437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mistakes were made. < 1240252442 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Apparently, clients supporting tab-completion suck :P < 1240252454 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Either that, or the clients should be psychic *shrugs* < 1240252457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on the other hand, all of this is wasted if the colours aren't properly calibrated in all parts of the production! < 1240252467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Does that mean I've had grad student sensibilities since high school? < 1240252492 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There are other grad student sensibilities :P < 1240252496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dude. context sounds awsum! < 1240252513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1240252530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latex is better for my actual needs... < 1240252538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than context < 1240252543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sorry, I've already said to much, if they find me they'll kick me out of the grad student cabal. < 1240252558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that ends up weird if you don't know it is about TeX < 1240252559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240252591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: no sensible client would tab complete someone who's last talked about 4 years ago. < 1240252602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to know, man! I get mistaken for a grad student without knowing why! < 1240252603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [andreou] idle 506:15:26, signon: Sat Mar 28 10:09:49 < 1240252604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1240252608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that I guess. < 1240252610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, Factor starts all new projects with a BSD license < 1240252611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What's the deal with Factor wanting to put stuff in its own subdirectory < 1240252612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opinionation <3 < 1240252624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's in the load path < 1240252630 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT > BSD < 1240252632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD SUCKS < 1240252638 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-127.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1240252642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And factor _is_ a working tre < 1240252642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1240252643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, is this about the license? < 1240252646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't install it < 1240252649 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure, why not :P < 1240252660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I use GPL btw :P < 1240252662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, so I don't get why it's like that. < 1240252668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i have to blame *someone* for failing to see why you highlighted andreou; clearly the only options are you and your client. < 1240252673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you used factor you prolly would. < 1240252679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it's BSD2 http://factorcode.org/license.txt < 1240252683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is = to MIT < 1240252691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That was called a joke :P < 1240252692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what about yourself? < 1240252717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to be as blunt as you, that was the joke. < 1240252732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1240252735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USING: ; < 1240252736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1240252743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This line signifies that your source contains ; characters. < 1240252745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very important! < 1240252750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err... < 1240252751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tried yesterday but got annoyed by a combination of the GUI-reliance, weird development practices which weren't obviously explained, lack of docs, and lack of anything interesting to do with it < 1240252753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1240252763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is not GUI reliant. < 1240252771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no weird development practices. < 1240252774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The docs are comprehensive. < 1240252792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because factor is a stack language, Deewiant told the most important reason first < 1240252794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Docs as in something other than a vocab listing < 1240252800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :-D < 1240252802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: er are you blind < 1240252803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1240252803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last < 1240252805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aårwkgareoigj < 1240252823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: here's two pages of actual documentation: < 1240252834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: seriously fix your client, my words are getting all mixed up. < 1240252839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: As for the GUI, I mean the default UI listener, I actually tried to google for a way of doing stuff on the CUI and failed, maybe I was just too tired < 1240252858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes ICC intrinsic function names makes a lot less sense than GCC ones < 1240252859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(listener, or whatever it's called) < 1240252860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The UI _is_ nice to use and helps a lot, but it is in no way reliant < 1240252874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1240252879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actual documentation pages < 1240252883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Where's the compiler executable < 1240252886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that ICC is terrible at optimising for his platform < 1240252892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is not a batch-mode language. < 1240252896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think REPL. < 1240252896 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is your platform AMD? :P < 1240252906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Why, yes, it is. < 1240252918 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCKZABOUND! < 1240252926 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised icc even runs on AMD :P < 1240252929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been running AMD processors since, hell, the K6 days. < 1240252945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Right, so what's this I hear about it compiling to efficient code etc. :-P Is it just a JIT? < 1240252955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_ia32_movntps (GCC) _mm_stream_ps (ICC). I fail to see how _mm_stream_ps captures the "non-temporal" bit in "move non-temporal packed single precision floating point" which is what movntps means. < 1240252955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICC is designed to turn off optimisation when the compiled code is *running* on an AMD. < 1240252957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Native code != compile-pray-debug. < 1240252970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Perhaps you should learn a good lisp to familiarize yourself with this concept. < 1240252974 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MUCH CONVERSATION *leaves* < 1240252976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Native code == standalone executable in my eyes. < 1240252982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your eyes are full of bullshit. < 1240252983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually no. < 1240252983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes it's sad. < 1240252987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a language worse than LSL < 1240252989 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are systems which can compile to either bytecode or native code < 1240252998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm asking you because I obviously don't know shit, isn't that obvious? < 1240253008 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the bytecode's used for the REPL and for porting, the native code for massive speed on one arch < 1240253008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have an AMD too < 1240253009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles to native code. < 1240253009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double obvious there means it must be obvious < 1240253009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In QuakeC with FTE extensions, accessing the n-th list element of an array is O(log n). Can't get any worse than that." < 1240253011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple as. < 1240253022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just prefer my code to work well on all compilers. < 1240253031 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there are list representation structures which are O(log n) for all operations < 1240253037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all relevant ones < 1240253037 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than O(1) for some and O(n) for others < 1240253040 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they use one of those < 1240253041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning C99 ones in this case < 1240253051 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessarily an insane choice < 1240253056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ICC claims to be gcc yet fails on GCC intrinsics. < 1240253060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's crazy < 1240253067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it defines __GNUC__ < 1240253072 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Chris Pressey was editing Esolang < 1240253086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So what is the end result of the compilation, if not a native executable? Something for which you need Factor to run? < 1240253101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: an .image file, which is a cache from compiled code. < 1240253109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ICC sucks horribly, doesn't it? < 1240253112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably do an unholy executable-bundling, if you are determined to be in the 90s. < 1240253116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what does one do with such an .image file < 1240253118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about a file with native code which needs to be loaded into a runtime? < 1240253120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean kinda like a tree < 1240253121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it in the listener? < 1240253123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if ICC actually implemented GNU C... < 1240253129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just lolling at "can't get worse than that" < 1240253131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or load it and do stuff with exported verbs, whatever < 1240253132 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICC actually implements loads of GNU C. < 1240253139 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just happen to be stepping on the bits it doesn't. < 1240253140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually ICC works quite ok on my old pentium 3 box < 1240253141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Load it with factor(1). < 1240253145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(log n) is pretty much O(1) with an academic hat < 1240253150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Read the 'or actually no' < 1240253154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is it defines __GNUC__ without being able to compile code using GCC extensions. < 1240253156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you should just distribute source, really. < 1240253162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an .image is a cache of compiled code < 1240253162 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O(log n) is pretty much O(1) with an academic hat // lawl, silly but true < 1240253167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b was the first ever letter to be created, but unfortunatley everyone thought it was A as it looked more pointy than B < 1240253168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1240253168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://esolangs.org/wiki/B < 1240253173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: please don't delete it < 1240253178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the issue is it defines __GNUC__ without being able to compile code using GCC extensions. // but it supports /many/ GCC extensions, just not /all/ of them. < 1240253180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not my page) < 1240253201 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports, e.g., GCC's asm syntax and computed gotos. < 1240253212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So it basically JITs but supports caching the code for speed? < 1240253229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sort of. It doesn't do anything just in time. < 1240253234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading a file compiles it. Simple as. < 1240253236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, then it shouldn't define __GNUC__ still. How are programmers then supposed to be able to know if the compiler supports a specific feature. Sure a less coarse system would be preferable. But no such exists in C currently < 1240253245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1240253251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JITs OTOH race to compile while the code runs < 1240253269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs a versions array. < 1240253273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like #ifdef __EXT_GNUC_INTRINSIC_IA32_MOVNTPS < 1240253277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1240253279 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Making the decision mostly arbitrary. I think they're more interested in making a large chunk of code run faster and failing on a small amount of code than in making all code compile and run no faster. < 1240253344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that somewhat explains the 'weird development practices' too, i.e. keeping code in factor/work instead of wherever. < 1240253359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, how does supporting these intrinsics make the code slower? it is just really a 1-to-1 mapping of names for the intrinsics... < 1240253377 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................... wtf? You totally misinterpreted that statement. < 1240253379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1240253391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, what did you mean then < 1240253395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: It's AnMaster, that's not a wtf. < 1240253397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can keep it wherever. It's just less convenient. < 1240253408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could also ln -s ~/src/bigbutts ~/factor/work < 1240253409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, I know, it just seems weird to me. < 1240253423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Feature from D. < 1240253431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor is a bit odd :) < 1240253437 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They define __GNUC__ so that they will properly take advantage of the GCC extensions they /do/ support, and since they're faster on Intel than GCC is, supporting the same extensions that will often increase speed, they will be faster than GCC. If they don't set __GNUC__, code will fall into an #else, using slower code, and the best they can hope for is to be as good as GCC. < 1240253438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah interesting. How does it work? < 1240253439 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240253446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having the default be to build your projects next to the compiler is certainly odd to my eyes. :-P < 1240253477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, the stdlib and all are completely malleable. < 1240253480 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for docs, I guess I was looking for something like the 'Factor cookbook' which appears to be at the very top of the docs. < 1240253487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It all goes in one place because you can change it all < 1240253487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just missed it. :-P < 1240253493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Gregor. :p < 1240253499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yes but they end up causing users to report bugs to projects with such code, bugs that should be reported to intel instead. < 1240253504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I added a thing to make unix signal names printed with the error < 1240253504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1240253511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and committed it < 1240253516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that sucks, but do you think Intel cares? :P < 1240253520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, something like static if versions("some feature") foo; else bar; < 1240253521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got into the core repository; all from within one workspace < 1240253525 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240253529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and forced me into a complex maze of #ifs < 1240253546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sounds like a great feature < 1240253555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Intel define something like __ICC__? < 1240253557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sigh", "meh", i should find something like these < 1240253559 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah < 1240253562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggestions? < 1240253565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Err, how is that different from editing any other compiler or stdlib and getting it into the main VCS? < 1240253571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, __INTEL_COMPILER < 1240253575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay i say blah sometimes. < 1240253582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because it applied only to that workspace, and I simply edited it as part of the workspace. < 1240253584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "seh" or "migh"; hybridization! < 1240253587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but clang defines __GNUC__ and __clang__ < 1240253587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No system-wide installation. < 1240253597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :migh!! < 1240253599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need a lot of checks for "claims to be gcc but really isn't" < 1240253599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love it. < 1240253606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is bullshit. < 1240253611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So it's like the so-called 'monkey-patching'? < 1240253617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: There's also "pleugh"; but I've seen that used. < 1240253618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not rly imo. < 1240253619 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The worst part is there is no is-actually-GCC macro, only supports-GNU-C-extensions. < 1240253624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do tell < 1240253631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can't explain it properly, kay? < 1240253647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do you know of something which can? :-P < 1240253654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yes. I have some stuff to detect gcc, clang and icc. But apart from that... < 1240253657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly not. Gotta use it to understand it. < 1240253660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or give me example code, alternatively < 1240253664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the IRC channel. < 1240253667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#concatenative. < 1240253667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1240253673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can explain much better than my shitty attempts < 1240253676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :migh < 1240253697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote that compilers that claim to be GCC should get bug reports for everything that they don't support that's part of GNU C. < 1240253702 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1240253713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and then there is subtle stuff like icc fail at *some* gcc inline asm. < 1240253731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, good idea. < 1240253747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have to find out where intel's bug tracker is. < 1240253835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:56 erg: ehird: does it matter? if you release it under the bsd license i dont think it matters who the copyright holder is (?) < 1240253839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1240253850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I forget that people don't understand copyright law/licenses. < 1240253861 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1240253865 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost doesn't matter, except when the time comes to sue people < 1240253877 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the licence itself doesn't much care, but the legal system does < 1240253934 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When the time comes to sue people" X-D < 1240253938 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at his watch. < 1240253939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:58 erg: suing someone for violating the bsd license? is there any practical benefit to this? < 1240253942 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's suein' time! < 1240253982 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they might be using it without attribution < 1240253995 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or claiming their modified version was your original < 1240254016 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hiding the fact that the software was BSD-licenced, or derived from that < 1240254021 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, those are the only three conditions in BSD < 1240254023 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, BSD3 < 1240254028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD2 < 1240254029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jnaqn unf gur nexracyvref! (Be ng yrnfg, gung'f jung vg ybbxf yvxr) < 1240254033 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the obnoxious advertising clause too < 1240254034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoilers < 1240254042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: to what < 1240254045 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: BSD2 doesn't have the prohibition against claiming a modified version is the original < 1240254049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not saying =P < 1240254055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fu < 1240254063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not risk it? < 1240254067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240254071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz you're probably being a jerk < 1240254082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I was wondering about http://factorcode.org/license.txt, which sez "Copyright (C) 2003, 2009 Slava Pestov and friends.", and yet every vocab in factor by default says ! See http://factorcode.org/license.txt for BSD license.; i jokingly asked whether this counted as copyright assignment < 1240254087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what you want and don't want spoiled, so how can I be being a jerk? < 1240254089 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1240254095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is the spoiler for < 1240254105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest Erfworld < 1240254138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erfworld? < 1240254152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same website as order of the stick, but a different author < 1240254155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read it, but I know of it < 1240254157 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1240254162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably crap then < 1240254388 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1240254765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1240254994 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240255084 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1240255098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/CAqN.jpg < 1240255103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not shopped. < 1240255172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep < 1240255283 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't tell me that http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0148.html then http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0150.html isn't awesome < 1240255311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: watch me < 1240255348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you at least going to look at them? < 1240255354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1240255425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is e17 out yet < 1240255433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1240255492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e17? < 1240255498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlightenment 0.17 < 1240255520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is waiting for Freenet 0.8.0 < 1240255530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually put some stuff on Freenet when it comes out < 1240255535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol freenet! < 1240255582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why "lol freenet!"? < 1240255588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz it's useless < 1240255682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're such a hater < 1240255705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god. < 1240255706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyarro.ws/ < 1240255709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haev like 70 domains now < 1240255718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how retardey < 1240255763 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1240255994 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@pal-178-043.itap.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1240256161 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that #esoteric is incapable of conversation when I'm not here. < 1240256174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1240256197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, yes. You're a catalyst. < 1240256291 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha the word "screw" is also not allowed in comments < 1240256291 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm hoping that Oracle takes MySQL and turns it into a proprietary enterprise-class database engine. That would be awesome. < 1240256554 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240256581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they'll just discontinue existing MySQL and Oracle products and start to market a bizarre hybrid MyOracle. That would also be awesomely strange. < 1240256622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines ways to obliterate SL < 1240256699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah, I wonder what happens to SPARC in the future. And Solaris. < 1240256713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Oracle make their own linux distro before? < 1240256718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will happen to that now hm-. < 1240256720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.* < 1240256741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something enterprise-red-hat-based. < 1240256928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have a Xen-based "Oracle VM" virtualization thing. < 1240257020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Apache-based "Oracle HTTP Server", heh. Clearly they like the sound of their own name. < 1240257115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid blue(I think) @ < 1240257166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1240257198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the Oracle a blue @? < 1240257212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...........Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahno. < 1240257247 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240257301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what color is the oracle? < 1240257310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. You mean nethack. < 1240257319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, you're so clever you can reference things. < 1240257382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1240257382 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1240257386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something oracular? < 1240257386 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: goblin: now issek of the slimy creatures scurried out. the wizard jumped back, squeezing and contorting with great dignity, only gray. in the dark. < 1240257421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should replace the standard oracle wisdom with this stuff. At least when you are hallucinating. < 1240257509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Incidentally, what do *you* think of Oracle buying Sun? < 1240257509 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the moon! < 1240257516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1240257526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was... very deep. < 1240257684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"approved the acquisition of Sun Microsystems by the Oracle Corporation for $9.50/share in cash" < 1240257688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit cheap innit < 1240257795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure IBM could pay more than that. < 1240257802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without noticing. < 1240257820 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-63-51.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1240258330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They'll keep cyclic references to each other around so they can exist forever in the memory void long after no one else is pointing at them." < 1240258333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage collection fail. < 1240258380 0 :tombom_!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1240258432 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, true love is immortal < 1240258459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic < 1240259324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looks like factoring an integer with over 300000 digits isn't quite doable. < 1240259389 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1240259390 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tombom < 1240259427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh. You mean nethack. Congratulations, you're so clever you can reference things. <-- Congratulations, you are so calm you get sarcastic whenever you don't understand a reference. < 1240259445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :References are not funny unless exceptionally clever. < 1240259485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what has that got to do with it < 1240259497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was funny < 1240259509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has everything to do with it < 1240259546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree, references doesn't have to be funny. Though this one was. < 1240259549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1240259550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1240259595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4884738 digits to be exact. Meh. < 1240259654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you don't say :P < 1240259663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I say! < 1240259682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Who knows, you might get lucky. < 1240259691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't in 10 minutes. < 1240259718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it's not prime?-) < 1240259744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?-) < 1240259745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends in 000, so yes :-) < 1240259765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the factors are $the_number and one. < 1240259766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :money plz < 1240259785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some of the factors, not all of them. < 1240259795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it happens I only care about the prime ones. < 1240259824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 2 and 5. Do I get any money for that? < 1240259840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you really need more factors? < 1240259845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No money was ever on offer, and no, you don't. :-P < 1240259859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an implicit promise of money. < 1240259860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye for now all < 1240259874 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need anything, but the guys at Project Euler seem to want them all. < 1240259884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icc's static analysis feature fails badly. It thinks a pointer may be NULL in if (mypointer) { somevar = *mypointer; } But if you change that condition to mypointer != NULL it accepts it as non-NULL... < 1240259895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I say 'meh' because I can't be bothered to think this through though it seems quite trivial. < 1240259903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"roll ( x y z t -- y z t x )" < 1240259907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most useful word evar. < 1240259913 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1240259921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1240259922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1240259925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does "roll" roll 4 in particular < 1240259939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because... < 1240259942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's just how it rolls. < 1240259947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1240259951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1240259954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the who* < 1240259958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, KDE is annoying me as always < 1240259963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it seems more obvious that it'd roll 3. < 1240259965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't taken the time to set it up properly yet < 1240259967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and KDE needs that < 1240259973 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-53-249.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1240259976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that 'rot', perhaps? < 1240259981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: right < 1240259984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's "swap" when it does 2, "rot" for 3, and "roll" for 4. < 1240259992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 5, then? < 1240259994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tilt"? < 1240260001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: roll ( x y z t -- y z t x ) [ rot ] dip swap ; inline < 1240260006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, < 1240260008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : icc's static analysis feature fails badly. It thinks a pointer may be NULL in if (mypointer) { somevar = *mypointer; } But if you change that condition to mypointer != NULL it accepts it as non-NULL... < 1240260023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1240260024 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nel < 1240260025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NULL does not have to be 0, right? < 1240260028 0 :nel!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :neld < 1240260028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 0 has to be a null pointer < 1240260029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the same happens for ! vs != NULL < 1240260035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NULL does not have to be 0 < 1240260036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1240260046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: correct, there's a weird hack where an integer constant 0 that's cast explicitly or implicitly to a pointer becomes a NULL < 1240260050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1240260050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1240260052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if NULL = 4 < 1240260054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, as an integer expression 0 doesn't < 1240260056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 4 is a null pointer too < 1240260058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mypointer is true < 1240260060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a null pointer < 1240260063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1240260066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null pointers are always false < 1240260066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't 'if (ptr)' guaranteed to be the same as 'if (ptr != NULL)' < 1240260074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when evaluated as booleans < 1240260074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if NULL is 4, 4 is false? < 1240260076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a pointer < 1240260078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet! < 1240260080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so fucked up < 1240260080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that's what I thought too < 1240260085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if NULL is 4, (int) 4 is true, but (void*)4 is false < 1240260086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: As a boolean pointer :-P < 1240260089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all in the data types < 1240260094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's brilliant < 1240260097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also terrible < 1240260104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why C++ is getting the null_ptr type. ;p < 1240260108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately NULL is 0 on all sensible platforms. < 1240260127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it have issues with functions returning a struct on the stack. As in return (struct mystruct) { .x = blah, .y = foo }; < 1240260166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you assign the return value of that function to a variable of type struct mystruct it thinks x and y may be uninitialized < 1240260171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, of course, perfectly valid, if a bit odd-looking. < 1240260203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, in theory a C compiler's allowed to do garbage collection < 1240260213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are enough restrictions on using pointers that it's theoretically possible to implement < 1240260218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone ever tried, though < 1240260227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it is fucked up when thinks foo = malloc(...); if (!foo) return NULL; foo->bar = malloc(...); if (!foo->bar) { free(foo); return NULL; } can leak foo->bar < 1240260241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dude it's not a halting checker < 1240260260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but that function is trivial, there is just a return foo at the end < 1240260271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why does it claim it proved that foo->bar leaked < 1240260277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"possible leak" I might accept < 1240260282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not proven one < 1240260304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Intel is over-confident in their ability to solve the halting problem. < 1240260317 0 :neld!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1240260365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and it is trivial to detect that if foo isn't leaked then foo->bar isn't either. I mean the function is trivial and it apparently knows malloc() allocates memory, so knowing that malloc() returning NULL == no memory allocated seems, um, trivial. < 1240260386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it claims the memory is lost at the line saying free(foo) there < 1240260413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which is, of course, perfectly valid, if a bit odd-looking. <-- did you mean the return struct on stack? < 1240260418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1240260447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, astyle fucks up on that btw. But since the syntax is C99 one... < 1240260608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is rather efficient too I think. Well assuming x86_64 being used. < 1240260621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worse than any of the alternative ways of doing it at least. < 1240260627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about 32-bit x86 here < 1240260765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that static analyser is even more fucked up, it thinks !var for a var of type int; doesn't imply the variable is in fact 0... < 1240260881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1240260884 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1240260897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1240260905 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1240260910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it doesn't, what if the var was 0 beforehand < 1240260936 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1240260953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um I mean as in if(!var) < 1240261053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if 1 is false and 0 is true? < 1240261067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are defined < 1240261081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1240261087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true and false are defined to 1 and 0 in stdbool.h < 1240261091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they might not be < 1240261104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't redefine 1 and 0 themselves. < 1240261119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redefining true and false won't change how if works < 1240261140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if operates on 1 and 0, not the defines true and false < 1240261157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point was exactly not about stdbool.h < 1240261184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He meant 'true' as in 'the value x for which if (x) { foo; } executes foo' < 1240261193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 'true' as in 'the _Bool defined in stdbool.h' < 1240261213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is defined to work as if 0 is false and 1 is true by the standard afaik. < 1240261234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I thought as well and he said he knew. < 1240261236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I misinterpreted it because the interpretation you suggest made even less sense. < 1240261244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, however, #define TRUE 0 and FALSE 1, and then just be very careful in comparing them like "x == TRUE" -- maybe with some macros like #define AND(a,b) (((a) == TRUE) && ((b) == TRUE) ? TRUE : FALSE) -- if you intend to confuse people. < 1240261262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's excellent. < 1240261305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure, but that doesn't really matter for this static code analyzer, since it analyses after the preprocessor has been run as far as I understood the icc documentation. < 1240261382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay: it seems that CCBI2 is, in fact, in such a state that I don't need to re-figure out what I was doing if the compiler bug it's blocked on gets fixed. I.e. if the bug is fixed it should compile (or fail due to a different problem). < 1240261397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I had left it in such a state that I'd have no idea what I was doing. < 1240261434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can't you just code it a different way to work around said compiler bug? < 1240261453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or maybe submit a patch for the compiler? < 1240261453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I can't, or I'd have done that, oh... 8 months? ago. < 1240261462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat nontrivial. < 1240261473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is why it hasn't been fixed. < 1240261491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I just reminded myself how cool forth is < 1240261496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: call >r ; < 1240261496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: twice: r> dup call call ; < 1240261497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. But of course it's much more nontrivial for me, knowing nothing about the compiler internals. < 1240261498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: quadruple twice: dup + ; < 1240261503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax without syntax ftw < 1240261520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do >r and r> do < 1240261523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it cooler than factor? < 1240261529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: return stack < 1240261535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to regular stack < 1240261537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vise versa < 1240261543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r> pops return stack, puts on regular stack < 1240261548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>r pops regular stack, puts on return stack < 1240261558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: different niches < 1240261564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is fun to look at and embedded stuff < 1240261564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1240261570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is really elegant and minimal < 1240261571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor is fun to use < 1240261592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw the final stage of the freebsd bootloader is partly written in FORTH it seems. < 1240261606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have said < 1240261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and powerpc macs's "BIOS" was written in forth < 1240261623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely < 1240261627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean the firmware. < 1240261630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1240261636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenFirmware was the name iirc < 1240261639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it served the purpose of PCs's BIOS < 1240261639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1240261643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "new world" macs < 1240261652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the easiest way to get a programming shell on any computer < 1240261656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press power button, hold down key, voila, forth < 1240261678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default input format for numbers was in hex :-) < 1240261681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, before the G3 generation they didn't have such firmwares iirc < 1240261702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used some other format then < 1240261709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure? < 1240261713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall it's a bit older. < 1240261720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it might have been a bit before that < 1240261720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenFirmware's also used in Sun stuff. < 1240261745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, laggy lagson. Harddrive krrrrrr. < 1240261752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My SparcStation 5 had an OpenFirmware ROM. Very nicey. < 1240261753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need SSD + lotsa ram quickah ;_; < 1240261757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I'm pretty sure that old PowerPC Performa didn't use OpenFirmware, I tried that key combo used to enter the openfirmware thing on it and it did nothing < 1240261813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-Cmd-P-R or something? Or was that the one to reset mouse speed setting (and other stuff in PRAM)? It was so long ago I used a mac last... < 1240261851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command-option-o-f. < 1240261877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240261890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the p-r one for the pram reset then? < 1240261896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1240261927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the PCI-based PowerMacs should be Open Firmware things. The NuBus boxes are different. < 1240262032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that performa was nubus based < 1240262036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zap the pram! < 1240262096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that "press del to access settings" is way easier to use than having to remember lots of odd semi-documented key combos to hold down during boot < 1240262133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the boot process looks a lot nicer if you don't display a "press for settings" message or similar < 1240262168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, small happy mac is a lot nicer of course. < 1240262192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when it is so small that it is hard to see what it is supposed to look like. < 1240262218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened on some later macs that had the original icon designed for screens with way lower DPI < 1240262235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that running Linux on the Performa box was a bit untrivial; had to use that messy Apple MkLinux boot loader. < 1240262292 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1240262344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never tried linux on it. < 1240262422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was a bit iffy. I gather MkLinux used to work "better" in the sense that it was less hacky, but then they gave up on that. < 1240262456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MkLinux was a Linux kernel running as a server hosted on the Mach microkernel. < 1240262507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never tried that; just ran Debian's normal powerpc port. But had to use the MkLinux boot loader, none of the rest worked on my particular hardware. < 1240262640 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1240262655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I see < 1240262718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too much activity going on in mklinux.org; the most recent post in the "news" section is from 12 March 2007 about a time zone datafile update, and the one before that is from 11 August 2002 < 1240262817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. The box certainly worked well enough for IRC use. < 1240262915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it (in OS 7.5.5, with Ircle) read out loud IRC chatter for a couple of hours with the MacOS-bundled speech synthesizer, almost drove me crazy. < 1240262935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc those performa had a crazy system bus architecture, meaning they had bad network performance. < 1240262948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you linked me to some page about it some time ago < 1240262976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1240262989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something on lowendmac.com, I think. < 1240262996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes think so < 1240263021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it certainly wasn't a fast machine. < 1240263804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of their unusual architecture, installing a 25-pin SCSI terminator to the SCSI port will improve network stability." ← That is a very representative bit. < 1240263804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I even had a lot of memory in it, something like 32-48 megabytes. < 1240263804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now that I think of it, I think the exact model of my "random" (hostname) was a Performa 5260: http://lowendmac.com/ppc/performa-5260-5300.html < 1240263804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowendmac is fun < 1240264047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: xor if if false else true then else if true else false then ; < 1240264073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh my < 1240264085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, forth's if-else-then structure is refreshingly different. < 1240264095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work < 1240264104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly hard to read for people not used to stack-based programs < 1240264108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nesting doesn't make sense? < 1240264112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to Underload, but it doesn't have an if-then-else quite like that < 1240264123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if else then hm < 1240264129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting < 1240264135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "[test] if [true-branch] else [false-branch] then", mostly... "if" pops from the stack and then executes either one of the branches. < 1240264152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1240264171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ColorForth-style: (with "red x" = ": x" and everything else green) < 1240264173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: xor if if false ; then true ; then if true ; then false ; < 1240264190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(; is just return, not end-of-word, and else is eliminated since it's "IF itstrue ; THEN itsfalse") < 1240264192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it nests with the innermost one? < 1240264250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is logical xor rather than bitwise xor right < 1240264257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1240264289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise xor is easy, it's "?.1$.2"~"#0$#65535" < 1240264393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is INTERCAL not FORTH < 1240264398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so/ < 1240264403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL's harder < 1240264408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be trivial in FORTH < 1240264413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1240264417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would bitwise xor be in FORTH then < 1240264425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't know FORTH < 1240264433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell us < 1240264442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xor" < 1240264448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1240264452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1240264470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in ANSI Forth bitwise xor is the built-in "xor" word. < 1240264477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that defined to the logical one just above? < 1240264500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did I misunderstand it < 1240264509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously if you care about the bitwise one, you don't hide it with the logical one. < 1240264527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would a bitwise one implemented in forth look like? < 1240264812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2dup and invert rot rot or and" might do it in a very inelegant way, unless you count using the other bitwise ops as cheating. < 1240264960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes like: [a b] 2dup [a b a b] and [a b a&b] invert [a b ~(a&b)] rot rot [~(a&b) a b] or [~(a&b) a|b] and [(a|b)&~(a&b)] -- and I think that final is a^b. I'm sure that's overly complicated, though. < 1240265058 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1240265328 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"PEW PEW" < 1240265361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exploits that realloc(NULL, ...) does the same as a malloc(...) call < 1240265768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :← < 1240265877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↓ < 1240265910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that has quite the duplication! < 1240265926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: rot2 rot rot ; : myxor 2dup and invert rot2 or and ; < 1240265929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to improve further :P < 1240265945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about doing it if none of the other bitwise operations have been implemented yet < 1240265960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, implementing all the bitwise ones then < 1240265983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that goes against the trend of inlining certainly ;P < 1240266041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: implementing all bitwise ones: you can't < 1240266045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1240266076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think you can do it with arithmetic and testing? < 1240266085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very slow though < 1240266187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1240266188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :div, mod and a lookup table... < 1240266203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no reason to use the disk at all. With megabytes of memory available you just load your data into memory and go from there. There is no need for disk." < 1240266205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Chuck Moore < 1240266205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement them all if you have isZero and a dec. < 1240266209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, to be in such a simple embedded world. < 1240266230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that would work too, but you only need increment, decrement and check for null < 1240266244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I have seen bitwise operations implemented in brainfuck < 1240266247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrement = increment max times < 1240266251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean my way could at least do several bits at once < 1240266257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf has an implementation, I'm not sure if it works though < 1240266259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that is true if overflow causes wrap < 1240266266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick's to use multiplications by 128 on a wrapping system < 1240266272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and catch the carries < 1240266276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it does in brainfuck < 1240266278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the fastest way I know < 1240266286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1240266289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway point is of course you can write a function to do bitwise logic, the rest is just parsing the primitive number format into something more malleable < 1240266343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know of a way to do bitwise logic fast using arithmetic, although i guess ais523 just described something like that < 1240266358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast, that is, in O(1) arithmetic operations < 1240266377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably boolfuck > brainfuck for maths < 1240266383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1240266384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) is probably impossible < 1240266397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) is trivial if you only have finitely many possible inputs < 1240266410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About a thousand instructions seems about right to me to do about anything. To paraphrase the old legend that any program with a thousand instructions can be written in one less. All programs should be a thousand instructions long. < 1240266412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just naive brainfuck will be slower than boolfuck. < 1240266413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Chuck Moore < 1240266443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1240266460 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1240266500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1000 high level instructions? Or machine code ones? < 1240266521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previous paragraph: "The i21 has four instructions per word. The Pentium has one instruction per two bytes. It is very hard to judge, you should talk in instructions instead of the size of memory in which the instructions reside." < 1240266544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1240266545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's been proven for x86 assembly, but for a few riscs the number is 1027 < 1240266556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, very funny. < 1240266560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Investments < 1240266560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I offer some investment opportunities? < 1240266561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$1M to finish my house < 1240266563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—colorforth.com < 1240266572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not as spartan as his language! < 1240266623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, avoiding allocating stacks for fingerprints until needed didn't save a lot of malloc() calls in the code for t :( < 1240266644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorForth IDE driver (first word on each line is red, rest green): < 1240266644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsy 1f7 p@ 80 and if bsy ; then ; < 1240266646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdy 1f7 p@ 8 and if 1f0 a! 256 ; then rdy ; < 1240266648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sector 1f3 a! swap p!+ /8 p!+ /8 p!+ /8 e0 or p!+ drop p!+ drop 4 * ; < 1240266648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean the code for t that handles duplicating fingerprint stacks < 1240266650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read 20 sector 256 for rdy insw next drop ; < 1240266652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write bsy 30 sector 256 for rdy outsw next drop ; < 1240266655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDE HD that is < 1240266656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://colorforth.com/ide.html < 1240266682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. That uses the BIOS driver, and no DMA right? < 1240266697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/driver// < 1240266698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it just reads/writes ports < 1240266703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1240266767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is very suboptimal though. But I guess it depends on what you need < 1240266783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That code's blazing fast anyway < 1240266798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would only matter if you use the disk an awful lot, which is not forthy anyway < 1240266829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. but DMA matters on a "real" OS, such as a Linux or OS X or Windows desktop < 1240266838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running normal programs < 1240266841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: colorForth is real. < 1240266845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1240266847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck writes real programs in it and uses it. < 1240266855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What you mean is not real. You mean conventional. < 1240266883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I mean real I mean something that is usable for everyday tasks, like running existing programs that I need. < 1240266883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I almost wrote "I'm not going to bother implementing it with just '2 mod' and '1 rshift' and control flow", but then I didn't even bother writing that comment. Certainly doable. < 1240266896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck runs his everyday tasks on colorForth. < 1240266912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you mean is conventional. Conventional OSes to run programs designed for conventional OSes in conventional ways. < 1240266914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, web browser? < 1240266926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he coded a TCP stack and so on for it < 1240266936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1240266942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A TCP stack would only be a few words. < 1240266954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and a HTML rendering engine? < 1240266961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ur doin it wrong < 1240266985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I also need a type setting system such as LaTeX or similar. Apart from that I guess most stuff would be doable on the forth one < 1240266994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1240267005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is incredibly likely you will never understand where colorForth is coming from in your life. < 1240267007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it meant to replace "conventional" systems? < 1240267027 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am currently installing MacTeX :T < 1240267057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it is a bad language. Or a bad embedded environment. I'm just saying it is far from usable as a replacement for a "normal" OS. < 1240267068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1240267089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaah, you'll never get it. < 1240267114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you are saying that it is meant to replace these "conventional" systems? Or not. < 1240267128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying which of those would clarify it. < 1240267135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu. < 1240267204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so neither. Which doesn't make sense. < 1240267213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Mu does not mean neither. < 1240267216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu means that your question is wrong. < 1240267226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what do you say is the right question < 1240267234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not say "the wrong question". < 1240267239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said the question is wrong. < 1240267254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, those seems to be the same to me. < 1240267259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you going to switch to colorforth as your primary OS? < 1240267268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. That question happens to be irrelevant. < 1240267273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are not the same < 1240267291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then explain what you mean I guess. < 1240267366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moooooo < 1240267743 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklopol :D < 1240267865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mokokokoko < 1240267925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that as "molokok", which is funny because molo means kok in finnish, and... umm... as we all know penises are really funny. < 1240267939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean your lines together. < 1240267944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1240267950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey psygger < 1240267959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prsnyggety < 1240268088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1240268093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1240268113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay our modelling project is almost finished. < 1240268336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread that as yodelling to start with < 1240268341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the yay earlier in the sentence < 1240268484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to assume you're just making fun of me and cry :'( < 1240268500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi. < 1240268507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modelling yodelling is a fine thing < 1240268536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if music and probability models yodelling < 1240268549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a book i mentioned here) < 1240268553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls this guy in university who did research on the acoustics of alp horns, or something like that < 1240268583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acoustics are boring, i was thinking about the improvisation < 1240268659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improOovise < 1240268661 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1240268731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1240268732 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me < 1240268746 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i manipulate font styling with latex < 1240268781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240268783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfm < 1240268788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only people, with my hands. < 1240268790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never bothered to do anything about the fonts < 1240268799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manipulate4 < 1240268800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ate < 1240268806 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: im reading _a_ manual :P < 1240268811 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesnt explain much. < 1240268814 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have a better link? < 1240268816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ATE PEOPLE WITH YOUR HANDS? < 1240268819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does C allow statements like: foo = bar = quux = 0; < 1240268829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... < 1240268831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it < 1240268833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=b is an expr < 1240268838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DIRTY BASTARD, USE A KNIFE AND FORK! < 1240268839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is an expr, a is an lvalue < 1240268842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=(b=(c=0)) < 1240268853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl, you can also do (a = b) = c < 1240268861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind-of useless, but legal < 1240268880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (a = b)++, which is more useful < 1240268885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing would be undef in C if it made sense < 1240268886 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240268887 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! :| < 1240268905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would (a = b)++ do? < 1240268911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b ; a ++ < 1240268927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignments return the lvalue being assigned to < 1240268929 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind ehird < 1240268930 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre name < 1240268932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1240268932 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1240268933 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1240268935 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1240268938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm so name < 1240268948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought assignments in C were an lvalue. < 1240269014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that would mess up all that sequence point stuff < 1240269055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1240269068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuz 8 megabytes in 32-bits? < 1240269081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no parse < 1240269092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte=8 bits < 1240269095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 8 megabytes in bytes < 1240269098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about in 32s < 1240269114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, 2 < 1240269121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240269130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: two 32-bit ints can fit 8 megabytes? < 1240269132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1240269135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been doing it all wrong! < 1240269137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1240269143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bits = 4 bytes < 1240269154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dur < 1240269158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 8 megabytes = 2 mega-32-bit-words < 1240269164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1240269164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1240269169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not helpful at all < 1240269179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i said your question did not parse < 1240269184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you failed to clarify it < 1240269195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1240269200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2097152 < 1240269208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8mb in bytes=8388608 < 1240269209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh ais left... < 1240269212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/4= 2097152 < 1240269214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just when I need him < 1240269238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what i said, you never implied you wanted an expanded number < 1240269251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240269253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to be helpful. < 1240269285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made an analogy, where the byte part had no number. why should i expect you wanted a number for the 32-bit part? < 1240269322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brwlah :D < 1240269352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Unknown acronym brwlah < 1240269362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's onomattapeyic < 1240269383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pats ehird on the head < 1240269488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that was supposed to make you explode with fury < 1240269516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares to write a complaint about this child psychology book < 1240269517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1240269577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1240269590 0 :oklopol!n=ville@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1240269890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee... dictionary format: < 1240269941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{lengthofdefinition,'n','a','m','e',0,pointertointerp,anythingatall} < 1240269974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointertointerp? < 1240269987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: interp=function that takes the data and does shit with i < 1240269987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1240269991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so you can do native shit < 1240270001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most words, it just goes through each word in the anythingatall and executes it < 1240270008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought it meant interpretation < 1240270017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in a word dictionary < 1240270021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1240270050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's forth? < 1240270053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1240270158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void interp() < 1240270158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1240270159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void (*f)(); < 1240270161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (;;) { < 1240270163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f=(*r)++; < 1240270165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f(); < 1240270167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1240270169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1240270171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't handle returns < 1240270173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normal asm it'd jump < 1240270175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is c, so < 1240270177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice start anyway < 1240270185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, that isn't in m though < 1240270195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how I can copy a function? AnMaster? < 1240270200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you don't know how long they are < 1240270219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1240270231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy a func into memory < 1240270250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have two in a row < 1240270267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... Why? I mean if you JITed it you would know. < 1240270280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have a memory array < 1240270285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this c func i define isn't in it < 1240270286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can find out except with debug info or such < 1240270291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i need it to be in there to address i < 1240270291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1240270297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ELF symbol tables < 1240270315 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1240270333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1240270338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: suggest an alt solution? < 1240270342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two in a row, probably you'll at least be able to copy the function to memory, might get some extra tho < 1240270343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know any < 1240270357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know context ofc. < 1240270357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I guess I could have a layer of indir-erection < 1240270359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you find out the size of a variable if you have a pointer to it? < 1240270359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1240270362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a void* pointer < 1240270365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try and jump to < 1240270372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it instead calls interp() < 1240270378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is malloced you should be able to ask libc, however there is no function for it < 1240270378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't care, i just love my voice < 1240270379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1240270384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a function < 1240270387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a malloced < 1240270410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just saying that the same applies here. There is no official method of doing it < 1240270429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, ELF symbol tables or debug info might have it < 1240270439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug info certainly would < 1240270457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so would a map file generated by the linker < 1240270461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not useful :P < 1240270466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general there is no way to find out < 1240270486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use heuristics and trace all jumps to find the last ret? < 1240270534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with mine just out of killing the cat < 1240270563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway nothing says compiler have to put a function in one single chunk < 1240270601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable hacking is portable < 1240270613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with profile feedback data gcc and icc will split code into hot and cold sections, sometimes splitting a function in several parts with other functions in between. < 1240270620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just theoretical < 1240270642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1240270669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes up with some magical memory locations < 1240270671 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1240270714 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike path is bike. < 1240270837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting. glibc has some code that calls into the middle of another function. As in the asm call instructions. < 1240270870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens in vprintf() into the middle of _itoa_lower_digits < 1240270880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfprintf* < 1240270899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, looking at disassembly in gdb < 1240270908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess every printf eventually ends up in vfprintf < 1240270934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not snprintf/sprintf though. But other than that yeah. < 1240271049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000000304ca43d0c : < 1240271054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an odd function < 1240271067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr. < 1240271072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do a jmp in C. < 1240271087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are you using C and not asm then < 1240271098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know asm and don't want to deal with that shit < 1240271100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you could use inline asm for it. < 1240271127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1240271157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that I think you can't do it. Well tail call maybe. GCC can optimise tailcalls at -O2 or higher into jumps iirc. So return returns directly to the original caller too. < 1240271161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1240271162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1240271164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's even, address ends with 'c' < 1240271165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just avoid calling functions < 1240271170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a, wait for it < 1240271173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ... < 1240271175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUGE FUCKING SWITCH STATEMENT IN A LOOP < 1240271176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1240271183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240271185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what the heck are you doing... < 1240271190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: implementing a forth. < 1240271195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why aren't you enthused :( < 1240271206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not enthused either. < 1240271215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Forth the sane way would be asm in fact. < 1240271215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too bad. you should be. < 1240271219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to be enthused. < 1240271254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is a veritable enthusalem < 1240271262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I for once managed a major restructuring of cfunge without breaking IFFI :D < 1240271321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you need to do a jmp in C? < 1240271328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for a forth < 1240271347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1240271351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 304ca791c8: e8 e3 da ff ff callq 304ca76cb0 < 1240271355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it wurkz < 1240271359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I recommend computed goto? < 1240271363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean why does it call into the middle of a function < 1240271366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, no, a huge switch. < 1240271370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that might work. < 1240271387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way is obviously indexing into an array of function pointers < 1240271418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see plof/cplof/src/jump.h < 1240271432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's a GCC extension < 1240271445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all goes to plan then I can define a word named "foo" that calls "hello" 5 times, and "hello" is a primitive printing "hello, world\n" < 1240271467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1240271475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, a huge switch can be faster since it won't need an extra stack frame, compiler can turn it into a jump table < 1240271478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The header file from Plof I cited tests for __GNUC__ and does either computed gotos or a huge switch statement in a loop. < 1240271483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just return at the end < 1240271497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is the computed goto faster? < 1240271528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also link to this file in some viewvc or similar < 1240271552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier for the compiler to optimise. < 1240271588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1240271591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fzcked it up < 1240271593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, really? I have looked at huge switch case asm, and it was a jumptable, "as good as it can get". < 1240271614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that was the instruction dispatcher for cfunge. < 1240271629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which almost fills the range 32..127 < 1240271657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few defaults for trefunge specific instructions < 1240271668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a hole for the fingerprint implemented instructions < 1240271683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a jump table which seems fairly efficient < 1240271699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and, again I ask for link < 1240271714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find it. < 1240271719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/CQoF.png < 1240271720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 56 kilobits of bandwidth, man! < 1240271720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :) < 1240271727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1240271744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And Trac is down. < 1240271755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin the file? < 1240271774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1240271775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find i < 1240271776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1240271778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing. < 1240271782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1240271785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herre ya go < 1240271798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1240271809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://codu.org/plof/hg/index.cgi/file/c151d9b88f93/cplof/src/jump.h < 1240271847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1240271869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really show how it is used. < 1240271878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1240271882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preprocessor magic meh < 1240271886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you mentally disabled? it's self-evident from the definitions < 1240271895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psl.c < 1240271913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentally mislabeled < 1240271970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1240271975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that I see what you mean < 1240271997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't help in the case you are interpreting program data