00:00:01 HUR HUR HU 00:00:03 R 00:00:33 BEN HUR 00:02:02 AnMaster: so, how surprising is it on the scale of 1 to 10 that i'm considering switching to pcs and ENTERPRISE LUNIX OPERATING SYSTEM(TM) 00:02:11 I'm just trying to weigh up my remaining sanity 00:02:14 hm 00:02:46 ehird, is fractional values allowed? 00:02:54 AnMaster: s/is/are/; yes. 00:02:59 ah yes 00:03:03 too late indeed 00:03:27 well, 8.43182 or so. +/-1.127825 00:03:35 I was expecting 11.9 00:03:46 ☺ 00:04:00 "To install djbdns, ..." GO TO HELL BERNSTEIN 00:04:14 i think that's a bit much just to install djbdns 00:04:18 :-D 00:04:22 ehird, so are you considering it? 00:04:25 AnMaster: yes. 00:04:45 if i'm getting an isp that lets me do what i want served via a router that lets me do what I want that runs on an OS that lets me do what I want... 00:04:50 well, I guess my computer should let me do what I want too. 00:04:52 unless it comes with a world domination feature 00:05:07 ehird, Yes. Feel the power of the dark side... Err wrong one... Come back to the light side of Linux? 00:05:32 AnMaster: Pretty much the only thing making me hang on to OS X is the typography. 00:05:41 I've been tweaking Ubuntu's for days in a VM and I'm still not satisfied. :D 00:06:03 ehird, well personally I'd want ColorSync about 3-5 times per month 00:06:07 but meh 00:06:12 Maybe I'll get a CRT; they antialias by default (by blurring everything to hell)! 00:06:22 typography doesn't matter that much 00:06:25 I've never, ever used ColorSync AnMaster. Am I weird? 00:06:26 but color profiles... 00:06:28 Also, ooh boy don't say that. 00:06:34 Typography is paramount. 00:06:47 ehird, yes for you. And probably in other cases sure. 00:06:59 I just mean to me personally color syncing is more important 00:07:03 why? 00:07:22 ehird, because I have an expensive camera that included colour profiles on the CD? 00:07:25 Ah. 00:07:37 ehird, and I'm interested in photography and so on 00:07:42 Oh, the other thing keeping me is that, well, the hardware is sort of bulky. I'm not much a fan of bulky stuff. Some seem better though. 00:07:48 E.g., thinkpads & thinkcentres are pretty sleek. 00:08:04 ehird, you can run Linux on a mac though 00:08:24 propaganda.cn 00:08:27 AnMaster: Yes, but it's kind of missing the point, isn't it? And the h/w support isn't too good. 00:08:33 ehird, but I recommend a desktop that is 1-1.5 years old. Otherwise the hardware may be too new. 00:08:35 :P 00:08:37 AnMaster: I'm in the market for an upgrade. I can get it thousands cheaper if I buy a PC. 00:08:42 That's a major factor. 00:08:51 ehird: that sounds like a weird kind of meta-honesty 00:08:58 oerjan: wu 00:08:58 t 00:09:06 propaganda.cn 00:09:09 oh 00:09:09 ha 00:09:13 ehird, oh yes.. upgrades... Saw that video that made a joke of Apple's "I'm a mac, I'm a PC" one? 00:09:23 it was about upgrades 00:09:27 AnMaster: Which one? There's thousands. 00:09:29 of course the papacy used it in earnest, i think 00:09:50 ehird, PC got upgraded, Mac one got thrown out by next model. And that made the PC guy feel uneasy 00:09:55 http://system76.com/ ← These are sleek, too bad they only ship to the USA and canuks. 00:10:00 AnMaster: :-D 00:10:10 as in hit by next Mac model guy on the back of the head. 00:10:26 and they come with ubuntu installed 00:10:27 which is niiice 00:10:30 heh 00:11:18 ehird, btw about upgrades. Computer case, PSU and one of the harddrives are the only original parts in my computer. Oh and the keyboard too. 00:11:25 I just configured an "ideal megasystem" on system76; came out to £1,272 00:11:29 ehird, everything else have been replaced over the years 00:11:46 That's over two thousand pounds cheaper than the Mac Pro I was looking at. 00:11:59 http://www.bogons.net/ has a better design than http://www.idnet.net/ IMO 00:12:00 btw 00:12:06 Well, the mac pro was a newer processor and it was 8 cores insetead of 4, but then it was also lower ghz. 00:12:07 idnet is too flashy 00:12:13 AnMaster: hey, system76 comes with an ATI card... 00:12:17 yet they pre-install 64 bit ubuntu 00:12:20 ehird, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! 00:12:23 Guess they only sell ones with good d rivers? 00:12:26 "512 MB ATI Radeon 4550 PCI-Express x16 GDDR3 (DVI, VGA, S-Video, DVI to HDMI, DVI to VGA) " 00:12:42 ehird, well... I'd go nvidia or intel 00:12:48 depending on how important 3D is 00:12:49 -!- Asztal_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:13:04 AnMaster: these are really cheap, though, and come without windows cruft, and are sleek 00:13:08 AMD for CPU. Soundblaster Live! 5.1 from years ago for the sound card 00:13:12 so if the ati has good drivers, well, that's fine by me 00:13:59 it even comes with a 26" monitor because, you know, who cares about neck strain (i am very small) 00:14:04 (I just basically maxed it out) 00:14:20 Now to see if I can persuade them to ship to la UK 00:15:00 flash drive is included as part? 00:15:04 "portable flash drive" 00:15:08 Country: [Canada | United States] 00:15:11 Damn you system 76! 00:15:24 hum 00:15:26 I wonder if there's a service where, like, you ship to a holder place and they ship to you overseas. 00:15:28 For a cost, 00:15:30 . 00:15:35 That would be quite profitable, I imagine. 00:15:39 ehird, my dream desktop: $2,598.00 00:15:41 :/ 00:15:45 -!- Asztal_ has joined. 00:15:51 AnMaster: that's pretty cheap for a dream 00:15:56 what specs did you put on it? from where 00:15:57 ? 00:16:00 ehird, 8 GB RAM 00:16:07 I had 8gb ram on mine too 00:16:07 http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=82&osCsid=01a86245f6be36d74b29fa9819293eae 00:16:08 that one 00:16:14 2.83ghz quad core 00:16:16 maxed on most 00:16:23 2gb radeon 4870 X2 x16 thingy 00:16:30 AnMaster: that doesn't show your choices 00:16:38 ehird, well no idea how 00:16:46 maxed on all but flash and keyboard/mouse 00:16:49 where I selected no 00:16:53 ehird, anyway it is ATI 00:16:58 it isn't a true dream system 00:16:59 that's what i did, but I selected kb/mouse but I'm not sure why 00:17:13 AnMaster: There's nothing intrinsically wrong with ATI. If the drivers are OK for the ones they ship, what's the problem? 00:17:13 ehird, also why on earth would I buy it that way 00:17:18 I'd want another mobo 00:17:22 AnMaster: wut 00:17:28 bah propaganda.cn doesn't have a real website 00:18:04 ehird, one with two serial connectors to begin with 00:18:04 I'm really surprised how cheap system76 are 00:18:08 I mean 00:18:19 instead of none 00:18:24 A mac pro with the same specs, roughly, would cost £5,000 pounds or so 00:18:29 You can only get up to £1,600 or so with this 00:18:46 AnMaster: serial? srsly? 00:18:57 ehird, yes I use that still for some old hardware 00:19:06 http://system76.com/index.php?cPath=29 hey, if you buy a server you can get octo-core :-D 00:19:09 probably expensive as fuck 00:19:13 ehird: did you just pull that propaganda.cn domain out of your ass? 00:19:17 oerjan: yar 00:19:24 2 x Quad Core Intel Xeon E5450 3.00 GHz 1333 MHz FSB 12 MB L2 45 nm ( +$2,150.00 ) 00:19:25 Drool. 00:19:34 so .cn probably has squatters too, or something 00:19:52 i cannot manage to google it, anyhow 00:19:54 AnMaster: maxed out eland pro pedestal or rack: 00:19:55 Price: $8,725.00 00:19:59 also meh 00:20:00 :-D 00:20:02 it's all intel 00:20:05 I'd go for AMD 00:20:09 why 00:20:11 nothing wrong with intel 00:20:28 ehird, no 3DNow!~ 00:20:31 :-D 00:20:42 AnMaster: do you know if such a ship-and-reship service exists? 00:21:25 ehird, more seriously: I had a Pentium 4 once. It permanently damaged my trust of Intel. 00:21:34 Well yeah pentium 4s are awful 00:21:40 But core 2s are great 00:21:52 Every company has bad times 00:21:58 ehird, Maybe. The Core 7i (or was it i7?) look worse 00:22:14 i7 has nehalem, which looks neat, but I'm not too fussed about that any more 00:22:35 ehird, A friend of mine called his i7 for "pentium 4 new edition" yesterday... 00:22:39 :-D 00:22:42 Sounds bad 00:22:47 AnMaster: So I guess you don't know if such a reship thingy exists? 00:23:01 AnMaster: do you know if such a ship-and-reship service exists? <-- hm? 00:23:17 * AnMaster tries to locate the relevant line in scrollback it refers to 00:23:27 AnMaster: As in, system76 only ships to USA and Canada, so I wonder if a service exists where you ship to an address in the USA, then they reship it on to your international address for a (large) fee? 00:23:33 That would be useful and also very profitable 00:23:42 ehird, no idea. 00:23:48 I never ordered from US 00:23:57 Mm 00:24:08 Worst case, I can ask a friend in the US to handle it, maybe 00:24:18 ☺ 00:24:23 AnMaster: didn't you say night an hour ago? 00:24:55 I did. Bad resolve I think the technical term is? 00:25:03 heh 00:25:46 Well, system76 looks great 00:25:54 I hate large form factors 00:25:57 btw that server: You won't need monitor or such Nor DVD-RW 00:26:00 heck 00:26:12 AnMaster: I meant to use the server as a desktop machine 00:26:13 a server you only use CD in once: initial install 00:26:15 hopefully 00:26:28 ehird, they don't come in quiet editions in my experience 00:26:33 ah :-D 00:26:36 because no one will care in a servere room 00:26:49 AnMaster: Hmm ... http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=81 has the specs of the higher end desktop but seems to go cheaper 00:26:56 It doesn't have as many video card options though 00:27:08 "Currently Out of Stock - Please Check Back Soon" 00:27:08 oh 00:27:11 the memory isn't ddr3 00:27:13 a bit of a dampener eh? 00:27:15 'up to 8 GB Blazing Fast DDR 3 Memory ' 00:27:15 :-P 00:27:17 ehird, hm 00:27:21 ehird, I want FB RAM 00:27:21 on the higher end one 00:27:22 :D 00:27:25 FB ram? 00:27:30 fully buffered 00:27:36 http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=91 WOW is this low end 00:28:00 is it? 00:28:13 AnMaster: look at the cpu specs! 00:28:15 it beats both my pentium 2 and pentium 3 easily 00:28:22 modern low end I mean 00:28:27 I couldn't bear to work on such a machine 00:28:31 heh 00:28:38 ehird, it would be a thin client probably? 00:28:46 AnMaster: No, it's meant for low-end desktop users 00:29:00 Even my mother's computer is dual-core, though, and she just uses gmail :-P 00:29:12 interesting servers have "no OS" option, but clients doesn't 00:29:26 Well, they get a lot of publicity from the ubuntu camp 00:29:29 Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Server Edition 64 bit 00:29:29 Ubuntu 8.10 Server Edition 64 bit 00:29:33 what does LTS mean? 00:29:36 AnMaster: Long Term Support 00:29:40 oh 00:29:43 occasionally they do a release that they support for like 4 years 00:29:51 I see 00:30:20 ehird, mine is single core, but it was rather upper middle end in 2005 00:30:25 Mm 00:30:27 or lower high end 00:30:44 The maxed out "Wild Dog" one is middle high end 00:30:49 ehird, I won't buy a new CPU until I need one. 00:30:50 Where the high end is things like nehalem 8-cores 00:30:58 26" KDS Widescreen LCD (1920 x 1200) ( +$380.00 ) 00:31:00 I wonder who KDS are 00:31:07 http://www.kdsusa.com/ 00:31:10 Never heard of them 00:31:28 Hope that Wild Dog thing has controllable fans 00:31:31 Well, it probably does. 00:31:48 ehird, real dream: Modern massively parallel Lisp machine with a real time IBM Roadrunner emulator built in 00:31:49 :D 00:32:01 My real dream is a pony. 00:32:03 ;_; 00:32:07 meh 00:32:16 that's not as cool as a lisp machine 00:32:16 Someone should install linux on a pony 00:32:27 Like, operate on them and put computer stuff in between the organs 00:32:32 ehird, cruelty to animals! 00:32:35 Then boot linux on it 00:32:43 It neighs, it boots! 00:32:58 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Roadrunner_supercomputer_HiRes.jpg 00:33:01 Those look pretty 00:33:14 Wouldn't want to dust that thing 00:33:17 Memory103.6 TiB 00:33:21 ;O-O; 00:33:49 yeah it's irritating isn't it 00:33:52 the TiB thing 00:33:54 "The Roadrunner uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems " 00:33:55 TB duh 00:34:00 lol, I can't imagine booting fedora on that 00:34:04 It'd be like... like... I don't know 00:34:09 ehird, yeah, would have to install Gentoo on it 00:34:18 Linus uses Fedora 00:34:22 kde? a few minutes to compile 00:34:24 "Linus Torvalds, author of the Linux kernel, says he uses Fedora because it had fairly good support for PowerPC when he used that processor architecture. He became accustomed to the operating system and continues to use it." 00:34:30 AnMaster: a few minutes? Seriously? 00:34:32 It'd only take seconds. 00:34:39 Think about it 00:34:42 ehird, it is optimised for floating point stuff 00:34:43 it's massively, massively parallel 00:34:48 "12,960 IBM PowerXCell[6] 8i CPUs and 6,480 AMD Opteron dual-core processors" 00:34:50 compiling is integer heavy 00:34:53 ehird, ^ 00:34:53 You could compile all the files at once 00:34:57 AnMaster: that's not the point 00:35:02 you can compile everything at once, pretty much 00:35:08 ehird, dependencies 00:35:18 and scheduling overhead 00:35:21 AnMaster: regardless, KDE takes, what,an hour on a high end machine? 00:35:28 i'd say <60sec. 00:35:39 ehird, not sure. Mine isn't that high end 00:35:46 it takes around 4 hours on this one 00:35:56 for kdelibs + kdebase + kdevelop 00:36:05 which are the parts of KDE I use basically 00:36:09 The best way to justify a purchase of an expensive new PC 00:36:17 is to compile gcc with -j(1.5*cores) 00:36:20 heh 00:36:21 and watch it flow by 00:36:46 ehird, I compiled some C++ apps on a Quad core Opetron server yesterday 00:36:49 was amazing 00:37:03 How does opteron match up to core 2? 00:37:10 I guess roughly the same 00:37:22 AnMaster: btw, you should move c-intercal 00:37:23 to gopher 00:37:27 gopher over ipv6 only 00:37:32 ehird, haha 00:37:37 I might do that tomorrow 00:37:40 just because 00:37:44 it would certainly fit 00:37:50 but too tired tonight 00:38:15 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Roadrunner_supercomputer_HiRes.jpg <-- interesting warning label 00:38:17 how do people use huge displays? 00:38:20 i mean 00:38:22 don't their necks hurt :| 00:38:33 ehird, how do you define huge in this case 00:38:40 AnMaster: "If you touch a computer, it will fall down and another will take its place." 00:38:40 if it is 21" I can answer 00:38:47 AnMaster: No, I have a 20" here 00:38:50 I mean like 26" up 00:38:50 ehird, hahaha 00:38:56 ehird, ah no idea then 00:39:03 I guess they just have it lower down 00:39:08 and are bigger than me :P 00:39:28 ehird, btw does that mean you can hotplug modules in IBM Roadrunner? 00:39:43 AnMaster: "meep meep" 00:39:47 err? 00:39:48 what? 00:39:53 in other news, AMD renames themselves to Acme 00:39:57 hah 00:40:00 AnMaster: Wile E. Coyote, Roadrunner… 00:40:08 oh duh indeed 00:40:24 ehird, btw see those AMD labels? Want Intel or AMD now? ;P 00:40:39 AnMaster: Give me ten thousand of them and I'll think about it :-) 00:41:12 meh. s/give/let you pay for yourself and test/ and I'm with you 00:41:15 ;P 00:41:28 slicehost don't do ipv6 :-( 00:41:43 ehird, too few do IME 00:41:52 also 00:41:56 Well, it must be said that, you know, not many people use ipv6. 00:42:01 did you see the second 1 april RFC this year? 00:42:08 (or did you miss the link?) 00:42:10 It did prove to be a good way to narrow down my ISP choices, though — to include only competent ones. 00:42:12 AnMaster: Relink? 00:42:15 meh 00:42:56 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5513 00:43:10 AIEEEEEEEE 00:43:13 ehird, ? 00:43:15 For example, RFC is a TLA formed of the first letters of the 00:43:15 phrase Rugby Football Club [URL-CARDIFF]. 00:43:45 hm 00:43:54 tools.ietf.org times out here 00:44:08 http://system76.com/images/wild_dog_P5_large_back.jpg ← Doesn't this have less than the minimum required Port Cruft for a PC? 00:44:16 There's legal standards for PC ugliness, you know. 00:44:39 ehird, yes they removed serial. Which is why it is a no-go 00:44:50 Yeah, if you're a dinosaur :P 00:44:51 also it is too wide or not tall enough 00:45:00 No, it's just right, I hate big PCs :-D 00:45:31 ehird, it wouldn't work in Europe. Observe back of power supply. 00:45:40 no voltage switching thingy 00:45:46 AnMaster: can't you get an adapter? 00:45:51 ehird, maybe 00:46:08 it'd be a shame to lose it over something so, well, trivial 00:46:11 ehird, that would remove the "low power usage thingy" mentioned there though 00:46:18 hmm 00:46:22 why wouldn't an adapter preserve that? 00:46:57 ehird, adapters leaks in the form of heat and such. Even those built into the power supply in the computer 00:47:02 add more and you get more leakage 00:47:07 ugh. 00:47:12 :( 00:47:15 simple, dear ehird! 00:47:16 ;P 00:47:28 AnMaster: Well, if it was a good adapter it wouldnt' add too much overhead would it? 00:47:58 ehird, well, I don't have hard figures on that. But still you will get some leakage for every adapter you add 00:48:06 but couldn't you replace power supply? 00:48:12 AnMaster: you mean internally? 00:48:16 yeah 00:48:17 I'm not sure I trust myself to do that 00:48:26 they aren't screws though on the back 00:48:29 or? 00:48:30 AnMaster: how much do they cost? 00:48:44 also, yes there are 00:48:50 AnMaster: the silver things on the black border 00:49:02 ehird, search me. I just know I took mine out once to be able to blow away some dust 00:49:06 worked fine 00:49:30 ehird, what sort of screwhead? Surface seeems even to me 00:49:44 AnMaster: look at the top-right one 00:49:47 on the side 00:49:50 there's a single horizontal line 00:49:51 dent 00:49:52 at the power supply 00:49:53 .. 00:49:58 oh. 00:50:03 AnMaster: you'd just take it all off, no? 00:50:06 and operate inside 00:50:19 I'll ask my hardware-y USian friend, I guess 00:50:52 Nice, the system76 people are on the ubuntu forums 00:51:10 ehird, well on my case you remove the side of the case first, then you hold your hand under the PSU to prevent it falling down while removing the screws from the outside. in the locations of those "balls" aprox. 00:51:15 One big cable to the mother board. One cable to each device. Not very hard to replug if you remove it. 00:51:15 ahh - that slow atom thing hyperthreads 00:51:17 that'd explain it 00:51:19 don't know how standard it is 00:51:23 MizardX: ofc. 00:51:42 MizardX, yeah too easy IMO 00:51:46 too easy for non-geeks 00:51:49 lol 00:51:51 "Why so expensive?" on the system76 forums o_O 00:52:07 ehird, make interface harder and more geeks would get highly paid 00:52:13 AnMaster: sort of like c++/ 00:52:14 ? 00:52:24 oh damn you are right 00:52:30 that's what C++ is all about indeed. 00:52:34 it must be so.. 00:52:38 AnMaster: http://www.erenkrantz.com/Humor/FakeIEEEStroustrupInterview.shtml 00:53:02 ehird, yes I read that. I just played that reply for the dramatic effet. 00:53:04 effect* 00:53:07 heh 00:53:15 I was in fact even thinking about http://www.erenkrantz.com/Humor/FakeIEEEStroustrupInterview.shtml as I wrote it 00:53:49 ehird, anyway keep the geeks who are good at designing noob friendly interfaces well away from any interfaces 00:54:03 heh 00:54:09 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1111781 00:54:12 >I wanted to know if System76 planned to release any Core i7 desktops in the near future. 00:54:12 I'm sure we probably will. We're always looking into the latest and greatest. I don't have specs or an ETA available, though. 00:54:13 ehird, provide a high voltage external connector if needed 00:54:22 Don't do that to me, guys! I can't upgrade if you're about to upgrade :-) 00:54:26 that is on the outside 00:54:31 that should keep noobs away 00:54:34 AnMaster: lawl 00:55:09 truth is, it would keep me away too.... 00:55:14 So... system76 "wild dog" quad core 2.83ghz + bogons internet w/ openwrt-installed linux wireless linksys router 00:55:25 It's like "The Metamorphisis". 00:55:34 *Metamorphosis 00:55:35 ehird, do you need that computer for bogons internet? 00:55:38 AnMaster: no 00:55:47 or just designing dream? 00:55:52 It's a "one thing lead to another" thing. 00:55:53 you aim too low 00:55:56 And sort of, except more "reality" than "dream". 00:56:02 As in, "this is what I'm planning to get" 00:56:19 Personal IBM Roadrunner colocated with at googleplex. 00:56:21 No less! 00:56:29 heh 00:56:30 s/with/ 00:56:39 AnMaster: Imagine having complete access to Google's server farm 00:56:51 ehird, no, that would melt my mind 00:56:58 I'd rather not try to imagine it 00:57:03 AnMaster: so THAT's how they do their indexing! 00:57:05 invite people to try it out 00:57:07 their minds melt 00:57:09 they put them in a jar 00:57:13 hook it up to the computers 00:57:18 == amazing computing power 00:57:27 ehird, it would only melt geeks' brains right? 00:57:28 a billion cores 00:57:35 I mean a manager would not be affected 00:57:42 oh indeed, google is evil 00:57:44 AnMaster: no, they make it look like a windows desktop for them 00:57:51 but whenever you open outlook or IE 00:57:55 it turns into a really old unix system 00:57:58 error messages all over the place 00:58:00 huge virus warnings 00:58:05 etc 00:58:06 would that melt the mind of a manager? 00:58:17 AnMaster: When the manager calls for a techie, 00:58:30 androids supposedly infected with a virus come and yell at them. 00:58:35 Think about it. 00:58:36 that techie's mind would melt... 00:58:37 Broken techies. 00:58:41 hm maybe 00:58:42 What can the manager do? 00:58:49 Call for more techies./ 00:58:55 Then they just heat the room up so it melts. 00:59:01 heh 00:59:41 meh I'm almost falling asleep on keyboard. I'm going to eat some garlic (yum!) and go to sleep 00:59:48 ew garlic 00:59:48 bye 00:59:52 ehird, err what? 00:59:56 what's wrong with garlic! 01:00:00 nothing 01:00:04 it's perfect 01:00:04 Garlic is a nice seasoner 01:00:19 ehird, s/seasoner/base/ 01:00:29 s/potato/garlic/ 01:00:37 s/.*/garlic/ 01:00:45 AnMaster: s/mind/garlic/ 01:00:53 ehird, yes! 01:01:32 ehird, and I allow bacon to coexist if you want. Maybe you could try garlic and bacon flavour 01:01:36 on something 01:01:38 combined I mean 01:01:47 Hmm. 01:01:49 Intriguing. 01:01:52 But bacon is best with more bacon. 01:02:03 For you ehird bacon is holy. For me it is garlic. 01:02:17 ehird, and I'd say garlic is best with more garlic 01:02:31 however, Swedes are known for compromises. 01:02:54 "2.1 - Logitech X-230 - 2 Satellites, 1 Subwoofer ( +$49.00 )" 01:02:56 we always try to reach some solution that isn't too bad for either side. 01:03:00 Those speakers look nice. 01:03:15 I have crappy internal ones atm 01:03:21 ehird, I wouldn't buy them. I prefer my high end headphones. AKG 240 Studio. 01:03:32 I like speakers and headphones. It depends. 01:03:39 have yet to find speakers giving as good sound as them 01:03:51 the even manage bass very well. 01:04:01 hm 01:04:04 is that right word 01:04:09 bass? bas? base? 01:04:10 um 01:04:25 bass. 01:04:40 sv:bas means both en:base and en:bass 01:04:49 which means I mix them up in English sometimes 01:04:51 I generally prefer speakers because headphones tend to... well, the music clogs my brain. 01:04:58 ehird, huh? 01:05:05 -!- neldoreth has joined. 01:05:06 Without the atmosphere noises & echo and whatnot that come from speakers, the sound sort of blots out other thought. 01:05:18 So I can use headphones when just idly browsing the web and listening to music, but not really much else. 01:05:47 ehird, hm. Your harddrive isn't as loud clearly :P 01:06:09 I need my components to be near-silent. 01:06:20 ehird, I wish I had that. I don't. 01:06:21 :( 01:06:25 I like the sound of ... well, not silence, just the sound of a room without any noise in it. 01:06:31 hm 01:06:40 what is those non-headphones 01:06:44 for blocking noise 01:06:47 earmuffs. 01:06:51 Guess you could say my favourite song is 4'33" 01:06:51 looks like headphones yeah 01:07:06 ehird, often see people working with machines with them 01:07:07 hm 01:07:11 yes 01:07:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earmuffs 01:07:21 I heard the word "ear protector" too I think? 01:07:27 yes 01:08:02 Hey, does anyone know if you can get the BIOS to not spew info? 01:08:03 ehird, I usually use mine when working with my computer 01:08:10 I like a bootup process without lots of text. 01:08:17 ehird, no, I only know how to get it to spew more 01:08:17 AnMaster: Wow, how loud are your fans? 01:08:18 :/ 01:08:23 ehird, too loud 01:08:30 I used to sleep next to my computer 01:08:38 Shitty mobo, shitty cpu, <1gb of ram, shitty fans 01:08:39 ehird, + I'm over-sensitive to sound 01:08:47 And I was only a few cm away from it 01:08:49 as in, I got much better than normal hearing 01:08:53 It was *awful*. 01:09:05 was tested some years ago 01:09:16 ehird, so they aren't that loud to other people 01:09:21 for me however... 01:09:26 I have rather precise hearing. 01:09:30 And sight. 01:09:45 well I'm less gifted in the sight department 01:09:52 (glasses) 01:10:08 I can pick out individual pixels from not-that-close to a monitor 01:10:11 Well, not if it's high dpi 01:10:22 I can't really watch analog tvs 01:10:25 ehird, heh I can't do that unless I bend very close 01:10:27 Too much distortion 01:10:41 I guess you could say I'm a pedant in more than just language. 01:11:11 ehird, luckily this room is too small to have the bed in, and the other room to small to have the desk in. Thus I sleep in another room where I don't hear the computer 01:11:21 I guess it's funny that I don't really like headphones when I like post-rock 01:11:29 oh? 01:11:30 Sort of contradictory there. 01:12:01 ehird, I find headphones are excellent for classical music (in the wider sense too) 01:12:13 Well, post-rock is very related to classical music. 01:12:16 mhm 01:12:32 ehird, I don't really know which genre post-rock is 01:12:54 as soon as it says "post" it is too new to have a proper name IMO 01:12:55 ;P 01:13:06 AnMaster: It's basically classical music done with electric guitars. Tends to be a bit pretentious. 01:13:09 ehird, how about some Jazz? 01:13:18 I like some jazz. 01:13:29 interesting. We share that taste heh 01:13:32 AnMaster: I like Autechre's Gantz Graf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfwD05XA2YQ -- go figure. 01:13:37 (is the world ending yet?) 01:13:42 Yes. 01:13:44 This is actually limbo. 01:13:53 define:limbo? 01:14:07 AnMaster: Post-death, between heaven and hell. 01:14:22 The catholics are more precise about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo 01:14:25 post-*: too new for me ;P 01:14:29 "the afterlife condition of those who die in original sin without being assigned to the Hell of the damned" 01:14:30 I told you above 01:14:46 AnMaster: autechre isn't post-rock 01:14:59 You should load that in your youtubey-thingy so you can marvel at what bad taste I have. 01:15:01 "the afterlife condition of those who die in original sin without being assigned to the Hell of the damned" <--- space constraints in hell? 01:15:06 AnMaster: :-D 01:16:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfwD05XA2YQ <-- this is music? 01:16:45 Yes. 01:17:09 so... the world _is_ comming to an end 01:17:11 [[Sarah Dempster, writing for the NME, gave the EP a strongly negative review, claiming "It bleeps. It skronks. It krrraaaanks. But mainly, it blows like a ruddy awful hurricane." She also called it a "festering hillock of tune-shy bum-wank."]] 01:17:18 I agree completely and I still like it :-D 01:18:01 AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Autechremax.jpg <-- This is the kind of thing the group who made that do 01:18:11 I can't for the life of me understand a colour picker in a music application but there you go 01:18:16 ehird, SFW? 01:18:19 Yes 01:18:20 ehird, SFM? 01:18:21 It's a screenshot 01:18:23 No 01:18:25 Not SFM 01:18:29 what? 01:18:34 Safe for mind 01:18:37 yes 01:18:41 It's not safe for mind. 01:18:44 hm 01:18:55 If you consider that it purports to create music. 01:18:56 ehird, I see that screenshot 01:19:02 but I don't know what it means 01:19:13 AnMaster: I don't think _they_ do 01:19:19 oh ok 01:19:24 it runs on OS X 01:19:32 with too many apps running 01:19:44 They're not running 01:19:48 Only the ones with a ^ are running 01:20:03 AnMaster: It's a sequencing thingy used by Autechre, who made that Gantz Graf thing 01:20:03 oh right, forgot that 01:20:08 too many apps in the dock still 01:20:12 It's in max/msp which is like visual programming for audio/video stuff 01:20:19 And it's completely insane 01:20:34 ehird, what's the colour picker for? 01:20:36 'Coreboot (previously LinuxBIOS) is something that our R&D department keeps an eye on. At some point in the future we may use it. However, there is a lot of testing that needs to be done before we could adopt it as a BIOS replacement. ' 01:20:38 -system76 01:20:44 AnMaster: one of the input parameters to it 01:20:54 I didn't know you could install coreboot 01:21:24 ehird, well you can flash it into your old BIOS 01:21:30 if you dare 01:21:34 AnMaster: er... what does that involve? 01:21:36 it sounds very scary 01:22:09 ehird, booting a floppy, and making sure your BIOS is removable so you can replace the chipset with a backup one if something fails 01:22:18 (make sure to have one too) 01:22:24 oh, i was expecting like, soldering 01:22:35 ehird, flashing your BIOS 01:22:37 never done it? 01:22:40 for upgrades or such 01:22:41 Nope 01:22:45 you boot a DOS floppy 01:22:48 and run some command 01:22:49 and wait 01:22:54 hope it all works 01:22:56 and then reboot 01:23:08 does coreboot have any advantages apart from being opensourc? 01:23:08 e 01:23:11 like, is it faster? 01:23:17 '- Fast boot times 3 sec. ' 01:23:20 apparently, yes. 01:23:22 ehird, I think it can boot linux faster yes 01:23:23 that sounds great 01:23:27 since it can skip many steps 01:23:44 ehird, your hardware could die if you fail it though 01:23:49 as in something breaks 01:23:51 AnMaster: 1yr warranty 01:23:58 i guess it might not count if it's my fault :-) 01:24:01 I plead insanity 01:24:02 ehird, flashing bios would void warranty 01:24:06 yarr 01:24:10 for all computers I have seen 01:24:19 that is except official upgrades 01:24:33 hmm 01:24:35 I flashed the BIOS on a dell once that couldn't keep it's time 01:24:37 so 3 seconds in bios 01:24:38 it helped 01:24:43 then ~20-30 sec in linux booting 01:24:50 that'd be even faster to boot than this mac 01:25:00 ehird, um I got those 20 seconds down to 13 on my p3 01:25:09 though I admit it doesn't start X 01:25:15 AnMaster: doesn't count :-) 01:25:17 it starts sshd and nfsd basically 01:25:39 oh and syslog and cron of course 01:25:44 but that's it iirc 01:25:58 Say, what's the recommended filesystem for data/os these days? 01:26:05 ext3 for os/progs? 01:26:12 ehird, oh my. Why did you ask about ise vs ize... 01:26:14 err 01:26:20 same thing basically 01:26:20 .. 01:26:25 i mean 01:26:31 ext3 for os/progs, and what for data? 01:27:15 ehird, I use ext3 for / /boot /usr /var, xfs for rest. With different block sizes depending on for what 01:27:23 xfs... isn't that the sun thing? 01:27:27 actually /var/tmp is xfs too, 01:27:33 ehird, err it is the irix one 01:27:37 I may just put it all on one fs to avoid slowness copying between partitions 01:27:38 jfs is the ibm one 01:27:46 AnMaster: I hate the forced regular fsck 01:27:50 oh I was thinking of zfs 01:27:52 zfs is the sun one 01:27:53 indeed 01:28:08 but yeah... "I hate the forced regular fsck" a lot 01:28:13 ehird, well you can disable that forced fsck 01:28:19 if you know the relevant man pages 01:28:20 AnMaster: is that good for stability, though/ 01:28:30 ehird, I guess it is an extra safe guard 01:28:39 but with small partitions it doesn't take long anyway 01:29:05 AnMaster: 750gb :-P 01:29:07 ehird, I just said you _could_, I didn't recommend it 01:29:24 ehird, that's one disk (in a RAID 1 pair), not one partition 01:29:25 :P 01:29:37 I don't do RAID 01:29:39 for better or for worse 01:29:49 oh wait you can get 1tb 01:29:51 make that 1tb. 01:29:57 anyway I'm too sleepy to explain partitioning that I prefer. Partly it depends on your own needs too 01:30:27 AnMaster: my current backup plan is http://www.tarsnap.com/, which encrypts your backup with aes and puts it on amazon s3 (which a lot of businesses etc critically rely on, so it's very stable) 01:30:42 argh 01:30:47 wut 01:30:53 why does the clicky url include the , 01:30:55 after / 01:31:01 blame yer client :D 01:31:02 means 404 01:31:18 ehird, I blame the messenger instead ;P 01:31:18 I got a BeagleBoard 8-D 01:31:49 ehird, how much does s3 cost? 01:31:53 AnMaster: from looking around, ati cards seem fine in linux as long as they're one of the well-supported ones 01:32:02 AnMaster: also, something like a few cents a gig 01:32:04 it's ridiculously cheap 01:32:08 but tarsnap pays it for you 01:32:10 you pay tarsnap 01:32:13 colin percival runs it 01:32:14 of bsd fame 01:32:18 hm... 01:32:32 daemonology guy? 01:32:35 oh indeed then 01:32:36 yes 01:32:41 and now. Night. Finally 01:32:45 period. 01:32:48 night 01:32:49 As you use tarsnap, money will be deducted from your account daily at a rate of 01:32:49 300 picodollars USD per byte of bandwidth used ($0.30 / GB), and 01:32:50 300 picodollars USD per byte-month of storage ($0.30 / GB / month). 01:33:03 hmm wait... 01:33:10 so that'd be $225 a month to back up a 750gb drive 01:33:11 ouch 01:33:18 that's just for storage 01:33:29 oh wait 01:33:31 it's compressed 01:33:32 hm 01:33:38 -!- cherez has joined. 01:34:04 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:42:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:49:32 Dollars USD. 01:51:25 -!- cherez has joined. 01:51:48 the kind you get from an ATM machine if you've can just remember your PIN number 01:51:53 *you 01:53:05 i wonder if this was covered in that request RFC about the TLA acronyms 01:53:51 I'm from the Dept. of Redundancy Dept. You're coming with me. 01:54:25 -!- cherez has left (?). 01:54:39 http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2450.txt <<< wait, what? 01:54:58 i think that's FAIL 01:55:39 the DRD department will _never_ get me *runs* 01:58:39 * Robdgreat drops a hot water heater on oerjan 01:59:27 * oerjan gives the heater a cold shoulder 01:59:31 *ouch* 02:00:31 * oerjan decapitates the heater and takes a shower in the process 02:01:00 for your FYI, that hot water heater was just like a hot water heater to me 02:01:16 and you killed it dead 02:01:17 figures 02:01:41 * oerjan turns the corpse into a makeshift fort 02:02:04 you're surrounded on all sides! Surrender and give yourself up! 02:04:51 i surrender, i seem to have run out of redundancies 02:04:59 hahah 02:05:23 -!- jix_ has quit ("..."). 02:05:58 |*-*| 02:06:40 now look what you've done. you've gone and woken Sgeo 02:06:58 ayeeh! 02:11:35 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 02:32:21 What are we talking about and talking about? 02:32:40 (Yep, that and that are right. It's the really annoying and annoying way of being redundant and redundant.) 02:36:04 but it is neither clever nor clever 02:40:21 -!- cherez has joined. 02:41:05 -!- cherez has left (?). 02:48:56 It wouldn't be annoying if it were clever, now, would it? 02:49:06 (As opposed to ". . ., now, would it.") 02:51:01 it might. i'm sure John Cleese could pull it off. 02:52:42 -!- cherez has joined. 02:52:51 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit). 02:55:22 -!- cherez has joined. 02:55:26 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit). 02:55:31 -!- cherez has joined. 02:55:36 -!- cherez has left (?). 02:55:45 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 03:01:33 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:16:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:28:48 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:32:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:46:06 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 03:48:44 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:50:16 -!- calamari has joined. 05:30:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:13:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:16:01 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:57:01 AnMaster always says "night" a couple of times, but never manages to actually go away. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:02 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 08:07:37 -!- olsner has joined. 08:42:21 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:22:09 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:31:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer"). 09:42:42 -!- neldoreth has joined. 09:43:12 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 10:06:59 -!- tombom has joined. 10:45:12 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:49:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:01:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:41:47 -!- jix has joined. 12:08:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:04:53 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal"). 13:11:04 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:12:45 -!- neldoreth has joined. 13:34:11 fizzie, yeah 13:34:13 I know 13:34:30 addicted to irc 13:35:15 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal"). 14:21:28 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 14:44:27 AnMaster: hmm, does cfunge 0.4.0 have been released officially? it seems kuonet.org works now but not updated. 14:45:29 ah i thought http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/ is official page; but there is also sf.net project... 14:46:55 lifthrasiir, yes it works now, but I haven't had time to update it 14:46:59 will do that shortly 14:47:10 trying to fix a broken backup script atm... 14:47:18 (that is way more important to me...) 14:47:27 then i should mention your sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98 has a bug... ;) 14:47:42 details? 14:49:32 lifthrasiir, ? 14:49:36 hmm 14:49:52 i should recheck the issue... not sure yet 14:50:22 i thought 2a*1+k$ should be 2a*k$ 14:50:30 lifthrasiir, It may be wrong, I remember Deewiant and me discussing what was the right order to push the sizes of the stack-stacks in. 14:50:32 hm 14:50:41 no, order is not a problem 14:50:53 lifthrasiir, that is quite possible, it is a bit old and mycology used to misinterpret the specs for k 14:51:08 there is 12 cells and 5 vectors to be pushed by y command before stack stack information... 14:51:17 Everybody used to misinterpret the specs for k :-P 14:51:20 :p 14:51:38 had to change the way k was handled when Mike Riley showed up with a test suite that was written by C Pressy that handled it differently 14:51:52 C.* 14:52:09 Well, the fact that you can never iterate only once wasn't exactly expected :-P 14:52:11 Pressey* 14:52:53 AnMaster: ah, okay. 2a*k$ is correct, because y pushes 9 cells, 5 vectors, 2 cells, size of stack stacks and list of sizes of stack stacks. 14:53:12 in befunge-98 there are 9+5*2+2=21 cells before size of stack stacks so that should be 2a*k$ 14:53:16 lifthrasiir, so it was correct in new scheme? 14:53:20 yes 14:53:24 mhm 14:53:31 fizzie, right 14:54:13 (i think i have to learn arithmetic again... :S) 14:54:31 heh 14:55:01 i got confused when i miscounted that number of cells to be 22, not 21 14:58:30 -!- oklopol_ has joined. 14:58:47 * oklopol_ suddenly realizes he has another computer 15:03:07 oklopol_, huh? 15:04:17 <- this computer 15:04:23 my laptop brokered 15:04:30 ah 15:04:32 ouch 15:04:59 well i had access to a computer anyway, just couldn't irc that much 15:05:34 this keyboard is kinda cool, it's been on the floor for about half a year, and i recently spilled a cup of coffee on it 15:05:36 kinda sticky 15:05:53 kinda nice 15:15:02 -!- Hiato has joined. 15:16:50 -!- neldoreth has joined. 15:49:33 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:50:43 -!- ehird has left (?). 16:58:11 -!- Mony has joined. 16:59:10 -!- ehird has joined. 16:59:32 http://www.kdsusa.com/K2626mdhwb.asp 17:00:11 drooleritious 17:05:00 hmm the pixel pitch is higher than this display 17:09:42 Deewiant, btw, I don't know when you plan to update the mycology result page next, but locally efunge passes mycology now. It has a known bug with k over k, but so does CCBI 17:09:51 GOOD: i works in text mode 17:09:51 Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed. 17:09:51 Trying to write to it with o... 17:09:51 UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed: can't test i in binary mode 17:09:52 um 17:09:55 that looks odd 17:10:08 I maintain that CCBI's behaviour is not a bug 17:10:12 Deewiant, i is implemented but o isn't (and y says that correctly) 17:10:29 the i/o related output seems kind of odd... 17:10:30 AnMaster: Yes, which is why that isn't BAD. 17:10:46 Deewiant, the reason why it can't test o is not the right one though... 17:10:46 I couldn't be bothered to fix it properly so that it'd say 'UNDEF: o is not implemented' instead. 17:10:50 ah 17:10:50 ok 17:10:51 AnMaster: Yes it is. 17:11:03 It tries o and fails, and then it checks if it's supposed to work or not. 17:11:10 Deewiant, is it still hard to insert extra code into mycology or? 17:11:24 didn't you say you made that easier using { to set storage offset or something 17:11:25 That area is trickier than most since it's right next to where mycorand.bf is loaded 17:11:34 ah right 17:11:44 I don't think I can assume that {} work at that point either :-P 17:12:03 Deewiant, you can, you test that before you test y 17:12:10 But it's not fatal if it fails 17:12:14 oh ok 17:12:27 Deewiant, if it isn't fatal you can't assume it anywhere in mycology can you? 17:12:42 They're only needed for fingerprints and I explicitly say somewhere that fingerprints shouldn't be tested until the core works 17:13:00 What are you doing implementing fingerprints into a broken interpreter anyway? :-P 17:13:35 Deewiant, it passes mycology, it can't be broken then can it? ;P 17:13:58 Wasn't directed at you, just a hypothetical 17:14:13 NULL, MODU, ROMA, CPLI and FIXP are implemented in efunge 17:14:22 also yes it also have the bounds bug 17:14:43 and I'm currently working on it in cfunge, should have more time today 17:16:58 Deewiant, btw efunge defines Erlang as it's host env. This is because erlang will set/change certain environment variables, such as $PATH 17:17:15 it is impossible to work around that. 17:17:19 it is documented in the README. 17:19:24 Deewiant, for example, on my system these are the changes made by the erlang runtime: http://rafb.net/p/DCezyl46.html 17:22:54 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:30:27 All right, fixed the Hello! example on the DOBELA page and my interpreter runs it correctly \o/ 17:32:57 \o/ 17:33:20 3792 bytes, I wonder if I can put the whole thing in 4 Kio 17:33:47 Probably not, but 5 should be doable :-) 17:40:12 hey AnMaster, i just realised what gfx card i have in here 17:40:13 ATI Radeon X1600 17:40:17 * ehird watches AnMaster's seizure 17:42:37 I have an X1400 Mobility on my laptop 17:43:26 ehird, how well does it work under Linux when doing OpenGL heavy stuff? 17:43:27 i shall be getting a Radeon 4870 in this new box if everything goes to plan 17:43:38 AnMaster: well, I haven't tried, but compiz works fine with it 17:44:23 I have a 4870 in my current machine 17:44:27 No hardware acceleration \o/ 17:44:30 Deewiant: what video mem/ 17:44:32 But, sauna -> 17:44:37 ehird: 1 GB 17:44:40 -> 17:44:40 ehird, I was thinking more about 3D games. For example Flightgear is so opengl heavy it has caused bugs to show up in certain nvidia driver versions too, some developer called it an opengl testsuite as a joke iirc 17:44:42 i was going for '2 GB ATI Radeon 4870 X2 PCI-Express x16 GDDR5' 17:44:54 AnMaster: I can try glxgears if you want. 17:45:00 ;-) 17:45:07 ehird, that usually works okish 17:45:13 That was a joke 17:45:17 oh ok 17:45:30 2 GB video memory heh 17:45:46 AnMaster: Yes, well, why not. 17:45:49 * AnMaster remembers when 32 MB was a lot of video memory 17:46:00 AnMaster: I bet this machine could run Crysis. 17:46:06 Crysis? 17:46:18 AnMaster: it's an fps whose large system requirements are a meme 17:46:29 ah ok 17:46:57 Minimum system requirements 17:46:57 from Crytek and EA 17:46:58 OS - Windows XP or Windows Vista 17:47:01 Processor - 2.8 GHz or faster (XP) or 3.2 GHz or faster* (Vista) 17:47:02 Memory - 1.0 GB RAM (XP) or 1.5 GB RAM (Vista) 17:47:04 Video Card -256 MB** 17:47:06 Hard Drive - 12GB 17:47:09 and that's just the minimum 17:47:12 Recommended System Requirements 17:47:12 from Crytek and EA 17:47:15 OS - Windows XP / Vista 17:47:16 Processor - Intel Core 2 DUO @ 2.2GHz or AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 17:47:18 Memory - 2.0 GB RAM 17:47:21 GPU - NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS/640 or similar 17:48:01 interesting how Vista needs a lot more for CPU and memory... 17:48:09 btw what is the * and ** there? 17:48:20 AnMaster: Er, footnote thingies 17:48:33 ehird, duh, I meant what does the footnotes say... 17:48:35 * Supported Processors: Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz (3.2 GHz for Vista) or faster, Intel Core 2.0 GHz (2.2 GHz for Vista) or faster, AMD Athlon 2800+ (3200+ for Vista) or faster. 17:48:36 ** Supported chipsets: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT or greater; ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Radeon X800 Pro for Vista) or greater. Laptop versions of these chipsets may work but are not supported. Integrated chipsets are not supported. Updates to your video and sound card drivers may be required. 17:48:38 right 17:48:47 do* 17:48:55 AnMaster: I think since system76 are in the ubuntu community etc there're probably good drivers for the cards 17:49:11 ehird, hopefully yes 17:49:21 but they only ship in US and CA remember? 17:49:30 AnMaster: I have friends in the u 17:49:30 s 17:49:40 who could ship it to me 17:49:40 + then there is the power supply voltage issue 17:49:53 AnMaster: I can replace the power supply 17:49:57 ehird, would you trust those friends not to keep it for themselves? 17:50:09 AnMaster: You have shitty friends. :-P 17:50:52 * AnMaster refrains from a reply that would lead to another ignore-from-both-side-war 17:50:54 I wouldn't be friends with someone who would steal a pc & money from me 17:51:05 (shipping money) 17:52:21 ehird, I assume none of your friends is named Nobby then 17:52:22 ;P 17:52:58 That would be a true statement. 17:52:58 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving"). 17:53:24 ehird, btw those system requirements above, odd that the footnote for video card contains info about sound card drivers... 17:53:41 AnMaster: there was another line about the soundcard 17:53:42 with a ** 17:53:45 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 17:53:45 ah 17:53:56 ehird, right. Sparse copy 17:53:58 * ehird asks stuff in the system76 forums 17:55:09 well those minimum system requirements listed above does seem rather large, but only two are outrageous: XP/Vista for OS, and 12 GB for harddrive. 17:55:32 the recommended ones seems outrageous too. 17:55:56 well, 12gb hd is standard these days 17:56:02 i mean, games in 2003 were 5gb 17:56:25 ehird, well but presumably it means it will use 12 GB, not that it will fit on a 12 GB large harddrive that also contains vista... 17:56:54 :D 17:56:57 yes 17:57:24 ehird, you know, I think it would be a good thing to force everyone at EA to work with the demo scene for DOS for a few months, might bring the game size down a bit... 17:57:36 I love the demoscene 17:57:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWeh9VQyP3E ← I can't believe they fit this into 64k in an amiga 17:58:22 because there are things to optimise stuff that a lot of people don't know. For example the cvs(!) checkout of the full data directory for flightgear is huge. Around 800 MB... 17:58:30 lol cvs 17:58:52 but I managed to save 50 just by re-compressing all the png textures with advpng -z2 and optipng -i0 -o3 17:59:02 * ehird reads the marketing site for the speakers http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/home_pc_speakers/devices/208&cl=roeu,en 17:59:10 bloated png files is a real issue these days :/ 17:59:25 s/is/are/ 17:59:44 ehird, hm ok. but what about: the issue of bloated png files is/are a real issue these days :/ 17:59:48 which one to use then 17:59:49 AnMaster: it's are 17:59:51 er no 17:59:52 it's 17:59:57 the issue of bloated png files is a real one these days 17:59:57 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:00:02 right 18:00:10 the satellites look like traffic lights 18:00:17 ehird, there it is singular, but in the other case it is plural... 18:00:19 http://www.logitech.com/repository/324/jpg/2325.1.0.jpg 18:00:24 confusing IMO 18:00:24 AnMaster: an issue is one thing 18:00:34 yes true 18:00:36 AnMaster: but in "bloated png files" 18:00:45 you're referring to multiple png files being the singular issue 18:00:52 ehird, it all be so much clear if we used S-Expressions to group it 18:01:04 s/\ball/would all/ 18:01:10 s/clear/clearer/ 18:02:15 (is (issue (bloated (png-files))) (these-days (real issue))) 18:02:29 or we could just learn lojban instead 18:02:34 probably easier 18:02:42 mi'e .Eli,at.xrd. 18:02:43 I think. 18:02:52 ...or maybe not 18:03:02 ehird, what does it use , and . for? 18:03:10 AnMaster: err, like, breaking and stuff 18:03:11 01 Aug 2007 11:28:46 xu mi cusku lo'u mi'e .Eli,at. xrd. le'u 18:03:19 also does google translate do lojban 18:03:21 I think that's "I say 'my name is Elliott Hird'" 18:03:21 and no 18:03:31 hm how did you work out that line there then? 18:03:36 asked someone who spoke it? 18:03:44 AnMaster: That was from #lojban when I was learning it 18:03:46 I've forgotten it all now 18:04:01 hm strange that names are changed like that 18:04:37 AnMaster: Not really; it's just like romanization. 18:04:40 I mean usually you write a French name in a Swedish or English text in it's original form and so on. Exception being other scripts being transcribed to the Latin charset 18:04:44 hm 18:04:55 Hird -> xrd. ? 18:05:02 Like: xu mi cusku lo'u mi'e .Eli,at. xrd. le'u 18:05:02 Which is: Did I say/Do I say "I am named Elliott Hird" 18:05:03 — me 18:05:06 AnMaster: x is like ch in bach 18:05:10 idea: make a programming language which looks like Lojban. 18:05:11 AnMaster: You can't get it precis 18:05:11 e 18:05:18 AnMaster: you can make a proglang which _is_ lojban 18:05:19 it has a yacc parser 18:05:21 hm 18:05:25 hehe 18:05:27 which is the official grammar 18:05:29 iirc 18:05:31 :D 18:05:35 http://www.lojban.org/publications/formal-grammars/grammar.300 18:05:59 ehird, can a computer actually make sense of that syntax tree you get though? 18:06:14 AnMaster: It can't understand it like a human, obviously. 18:06:22 [[it has selbri, which are like functions - they take a number of arguments ("places") and you can skip arguments with special words that move to different arguments]] -- me 18:06:35 So it's quite a close fit 18:06:59 "mee cooskoo lohhoo meeheh Eleaht chrd lehhoo" 18:06:59 Where ch is like in Bach. 18:07:01 -- me on pronounciation of mi cusku lo'u mi'e .Eli,at. xrd. le'u 18:07:18 ehird, lets say you tell it in lojban "go ahead", but wouldn't there be many different ways to express that? In English there certainly are, some depending on context. 18:07:30 AnMaster: There's always multiple ways to express something. 18:07:37 It's impossible to restrict that. 18:07:38 indeed 18:08:02 AnMaster: The language is unambiguous -- but that doesn't mean what you say in it is. 18:08:08 "sure", "go ahead", "okay" could all mean the same thing to a human (depending on context, in certain contexts they would be rather different) 18:08:53 I admit I don't know lojban, so maybe it has some way to handle this 18:08:55 ? 18:09:04 Not really. 18:09:09 It's still tuned for human expression. 18:09:15 right 18:09:48 so we are still far from the computer on Enterprise then :/ 18:10:12 "One of the his first non-programming works—the GNU Manifesto—was a certifiable snore-fest, later adopted by a commercial enterprise, repackaged, and sold on the industrial pharmaceutical market as a sedative for invasive surgery. " 18:10:14 - http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Stallman 18:10:59 ehird, btw, you said x was like ch in bach above, so "Hird" is pronounced like "chird"?? 18:11:14 AnMaster: No, it's pronounced like herd, but lojban has no equivalent sound. 18:11:17 ch is as close as you can get. 18:11:18 or maybe i mistook the word 18:11:19 ah 18:11:26 blowjban 18:11:38 lament: you just reached a new low in coherency 18:11:39 grat 18:11:40 s 18:12:26 ehird, hm.. it made kind of sense in a meta-sense kind of non-sense way 18:12:42 kind of like the description for the last sqrt(-garfield) 18:12:54 There should be free pacemaker software like corebios 18:13:00 Become an early adopter! 18:13:00 same sort of meta-sense I mean 18:13:09 And, er, a "late" adopter. 18:13:13 * ehird *instant rimshot* 18:13:19 ehird, to get back to x: is there a strict connection between spelling and pronouncing then in lojban? 18:13:24 AnMaster: yes 18:13:31 because I think that is why we still don't use such languages 18:13:33 all letters are pronounced in exactly one way 18:13:37 sure it is easier to learn 18:13:48 but it makes the language a bit boring kind of 18:13:53 for many people 18:14:15 you need some quirks to make it feel like a real language. Otherwise it just feels very artificial 18:14:40 oh god, I read 'colorforth.com update. SeaForth is dead. Chuck Moore is back.' 18:14:44 as 'Chuck Moore is dead' 18:14:47 and I died a little insid 18:14:47 e 18:14:49 err 18:14:52 http://colorforth.com/ 18:15:00 I read "chuck moore" as "chuck norris" 18:15:01 oh my 18:15:03 :-D 18:15:09 chuck norris codes forth with his bible 18:15:23 i lov ehow he looks like he was just in a fight in this pic: http://colorforth.com/chuck.jpg 18:15:25 hm, soundforth? 18:15:30 not sure how 18:15:36 but the name sounds interesting 18:15:40 heh 18:15:48 4 dimensional forth 18:15:51 AnMaster: ooh! 18:15:53 ehird, you could have touchforth too... 18:15:55 a 4-d funge 18:15:58 which uses sound as the fourth d 18:16:03 to represent it that is 18:16:13 hm... fourth d? 18:16:19 ah 18:16:27 I read that as "forth d" 18:16:33 XD 18:16:49 with the u added it makes sense indeed 18:17:26 ehird, how would you encode it in sound? And how would you sync the ASCII file with this signal? 18:17:45 AnMaster: ask oklopol_, he was writing a 4d pong where fourth d = sound 18:17:57 trefunge uses form feed to increment the z dimension... 18:18:10 (you probably know this) 18:18:11 hm 18:18:54 oklopol_, this 4D-with-sound pong sounds interesting. Can you elaborate on what this wound mean in practise? 18:19:17 ehird, was this recently or? 18:19:25 AnMaster: like ... early mid 2008? 18:19:29 ah ok 18:19:38 how about 8D pong, with sound and taste 18:19:54 6D 18:20:01 all of your senses. psychics only 18:20:14 heh 18:21:55 ehird, iirc you said your computer was almost silent? 18:22:04 AnMaster: generally, yes 18:22:15 probably not for you and your mega ears 18:22:47 ehird, at what sort of usage does it's fans turn on? 18:23:04 I mean, compiling a small app? Compiling a large app? 3D games? 18:23:17 AnMaster: Compiling generally makes the fans run a lil', but not too noticable. 18:23:34 It's hard to get the fans to go high -- I've only had them on full when it measured wrong and put them on full blast by mistake. 18:23:40 ehird: Those two Radeon X2s will make it sound like a space rocket 18:23:48 Deewiant: What, all the time? 18:23:54 Also, I'm talking about my current rig 18:24:00 ehird, the best way would be to have the computer in one room then a terminal in a separate room 18:24:07 ehird: Yes, all the time. 18:24:12 Deewiant: o_O Why? 18:24:21 AnMaster: Lisp Machines did that. 18:24:31 They're not exactly known as very quiet cards. :-P 18:24:58 ehird, I have seen some laptops that are silent mostly when you use them, but run fan at full speed when you go compiling or run a simulation or such, and even with the fans on it runs very hot then.. 18:25:02 Deewiant: What actually makes the noise? I'm not a gfx-card-knowledgable kind of person. 18:25:22 But that sounds sucky, if they're gonna be loud all the time I'll have to ditch them :-( 18:25:28 an apple macbook (non-pro) did this to me about half a year ago, not the last model or such even back then... 18:25:46 ehird: Fans. 18:26:00 Deewiant: And why does it need to run these fans all the time? 18:26:00 Deewiant, also seeking harddrives (some models) 18:26:04 but fans are worse yes 18:26:04 ehird: It runs at around 60 degrees when idle, with the fans on. 18:26:12 Deewiant: what the fuck. 18:26:15 Sounds shite. 18:26:18 Err. 18:26:21 Do you mean f or c 18:26:38 Or maybe I'm confusing the number with power usage in watts, actually 18:26:42 heh 18:26:47 I'll have to check 18:26:56 ehird, my GPU came in two editions, one with fan and one without, sadly the one without was out of stock and I needed a replacement the same day (my old geforce 3 had finally given up. R.I.P.) 18:27:02 And for the record I never use Fahrenheit. 18:27:30 60c is just ridiculous 18:27:32 ehird: No, I was right, at least one review says 58 degrees when idle (22 db) 18:27:38 70-75 when active 18:27:42 Deewiant: wait, 22 db? Am I fucking hearing you right? 18:27:46 That's fucking ridiculous. 18:27:47 geforce 7600 btw, with the more extreme cards I assume it would be hard to make a fan-less edition 18:27:48 ehird: When idle. 18:27:48 Good god. 18:27:51 ehird: When active, 40ish. 18:28:06 And drawing about 200 Watts. 18:28:07 ehird, how hot is the CPU in your mac btw? 18:28:08 Deewiant: I should just buy a fan and put it on full right next to my ears. 18:28:09 just wondering 18:28:16 AnMaster: I don't know I've never touched it :-P 18:28:19 ehird: Oh, and btw. This wasn't an X2. 18:28:24 Deewiant: what was it 18:28:28 A plain HD 4870. 18:28:31 Like mine. 18:28:32 ehird, iirc macs have sensors, I even remember seeing some app on OS X showing it in a nice way 18:28:36 forgot the program name 18:28:47 it worked when I tried it on that macbook at least... 18:28:48 ehird: The X2s will be worse, of course. Don't know by how much, though. 18:28:49 Deewiant: so why do people buy these things... 18:29:08 ehird: People who buy the latest and greatest graphics cards aren't generally looking for silent systems :-P 18:29:14 Harumph. 18:29:32 Deewiant: the lowest end this comes with is a 512 MB ATI Radeon 4550 PCI-Express x16 GDDR3 18:29:32 ehird, speed, price, low noise level, choose two. 18:29:34 I'm satisfied with the quietness of mine 18:29:43 AnMaster: Speed & low noise level. What's the price? :-) 18:30:04 My current machine makes less than half the noise of the previous one :-P 18:30:23 I did rip out the stock HD 4870 cooler though 18:31:14 Deewiant: Can you watercool these things? ;-) 18:31:21 I guess, why not 18:31:27 I am so not going to try that. 18:31:29 I've never messed with non-air-cooling 18:31:39 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:31:41 ehird, cost of whatever two rooms cost around where you live + one of those fancy terminal extender things from blackbox (seen in ads, with happy customers talking about how much better it is not having to have dust collecting computers in clean rooms or whatever, and "contact for price") + noisy computer + monitor + keyboard + mouse 18:32:07 AnMaster: lulz 18:32:24 a CD drive at the same place as the terminal might be useful too, in case you are lazy it would be a requirement even 18:32:36 (depending on how often you use CDs) 18:33:19 Just use a pneumatic tube system to transport the CD to the drive 18:33:29 Deewiant: how loud would a '512 MB ATI Radeon 4550 PCI-Express x16 GDDR3' be 18:33:37 ehird: Beats me, google for reviews 18:33:39 ehird, something like that listed on http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Results.aspx/KVM/n-4294964384/p-0 maybe 18:33:43 Deewiant: Bah :-) 18:33:59 ehird: I only know about stuff I've considered buying :-P 18:34:06 price doesn't seem _too_ bad in fact.. 18:34:38 Deewiant: Wish you hadn't told me this, now I'm out of ideas :D 18:35:00 ehird, idea: enormous external headsink. Imagine this: an external 3 kg headsink on the top of the computer case... 18:35:11 passive air cooling 18:35:12 :D 18:35:24 I wonder why watercooling never comes standard 18:35:25 ehird: Well, I decided early on that I'd get approximately the best gfx card 18:35:37 So I only really looked at the 4870 and the GeForce GTX 260/280 18:35:50 ehird, because when things go bad they go really bad. That may be why water cooling is not very popular. 18:35:53 And the former was 100€ or so cheaper so it was an easy decision :-P 18:35:56 I may be wrong though... 18:36:03 Deewiant: Yar, it's just that one airplane-noised computer was enough for a lifetime for me. 18:36:35 ehird: I've had a lot of those, I think my current one is simultaneously the quietest and most powerful machine I've ever had, by far :-) 18:36:43 I mean a failed fan is much less of a problem, computer will detect that it is overheating and then shut itself off at some point. A lot of modern computers do that at least. 18:36:59 Deewiant: Got a microphone with good enough quality to give an accurate picture of the loudness? :P 18:37:01 handled by mobo/bios or such 18:37:12 ehird: No microphone at all, sorry 18:37:29 Deep lake water cooling uses cold water pumped from the bottom of a lake as a heat sink for climate control systems^W^W^Wcomputers. 18:37:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_lake_water_cooling 18:37:38 that sounds... 18:38:22 ehird, interesting, but is it used for computers? yet? 18:38:26 AnMaster: No. :-P 18:38:30 oh 18:38:31 ehird: I can't hear it at all when I've got earphones+music on, unless I explicitly try to listen for it 18:38:42 Yes, well, I don't do headphones [as yesterday] 18:39:01 You broke them, or what? ;-) 18:39:19 Deewiant: can't think properly with them 18:39:59 I tend to just turn sounds off and keep them on :-P 18:40:14 If I find myself needing extra-effective thinking, that is 18:40:23 I can actually hear the fans in my computer even with ear protectors (or whatever the name was). Though the ear protectors do help reduce it to a acceptable level... 18:40:35 an* 18:40:57 Bah, computers suck. 18:41:42 Hmm, earphones refer specifically to earbuds, I didn't mean those 18:41:42 Deewiant, about headphones, with no sound playing my headphones hardly reduce outside noise at all. But your does? 18:42:03 Well, a bit, since they're circumaural 18:42:10 Not much though 18:42:11 Deewiant, earbuds? is that before they become earflowers??? 18:42:18 :-D 18:42:26 Haha, never even realized that 18:42:36 AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/IPod_Earbuds.JPG 18:44:30 hm... when I click that link I get a message from konq saying "Tjänsten "/home/anmaster/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop" är felaktig.", weird.. 18:44:40 copy pasting url works 18:44:42 Tjänst? 18:44:45 service 18:44:50 Right, I knew that. 18:44:56 why did you ask then? 18:45:00 :P 18:45:01 I don't know. 18:45:02 :-P 18:45:05 k 18:45:13 I didn't know it in time. 18:45:21 anyway about that pic... aha, those yeah 18:45:31 never heard the name "earbuds" for them before 18:45:40 What else? 18:45:49 never heard a English name I think 18:45:51 for them 18:45:56 :-) 18:46:15 anyway, "earbuds" always fall out of my ears... 18:46:16 http://www.redtower.hu/kepek/upload/2008-09/sennheiser_hd555.jpg is what I've got 18:46:21 very irritating 18:46:23 earbuds or earphones 18:46:29 AnMaster: you didn't put them in deep enough 18:46:36 if you're not getting uncomfortable ear damage they'll fall out 18:46:47 I get uncomfortable ear damage and they still fall out 18:46:48 oh right 18:46:51 Deewiant: I have ones pretty like that except more shit 18:47:02 :-P 18:47:12 ehird, that explains it, I tried to not cause damage to myself I guess. 18:47:31 Deewiant, AKG 240 Studio are my headphones, google for them 18:47:47 discontinued :D 18:47:49 yep 18:47:50 http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,252,pid,252,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html 18:47:51 I know 18:47:59 they look funny 18:48:12 how do you mean? 18:48:16 My ears are too small for headphones 18:48:16 :-D 18:48:18 They seem a bit small: are those circumaural or supra-aural? 18:48:27 the url looks funny I'd say, but the actual headphones? no 18:48:49 Deewiant, I would answer if I knew what "circumaural" or "supra-aural" meant... 18:49:11 AnMaster: "Around ear" or "on top of ear" 18:49:33 Deewiant, diameter for the round areas is approx. 10 cm 18:49:35 I.e. does your entire ear fit inside them 18:50:21 I guess that'd make them circumaural 18:50:23 Deewiant, that is outer diameter of the padded area. inner diameter is ~6.5 cm 18:50:39 slightly more, 6.75 probably 18:51:34 Deewiant, anyway they are comfortable and the sound is high quality, which is what I care about 18:52:19 and it seems to fit just around my ear 18:52:33 I'm quite satisfied with Grado Labs SR60 18:52:35 (just checked) 18:54:39 btw, anyone remember that google shell thingy? 18:55:25 no? 18:57:32 Deewiant, ehird ? 18:57:38 What 18:57:46 ehird, remember that google shell thingy? 18:57:49 What 18:57:54 guess not 18:57:56 http://goosh.org/ 18:58:08 (needs javascript yes..) 18:59:33 oh 18:59:40 it sucks 19:01:15 ehird, yeah, but fun idea 19:01:25 not a very good implementation indeed 19:01:32 cd semantics is broken for example 19:02:41 Why can't I just have speed, power and quietness :-P 19:02:45 AND A FREAKING PONY. 19:03:44 ehird, because life sucks? 19:03:52 It should unsuck. 19:04:07 I'm afraid it may be stuck... 19:18:59 "Currently Mausezahn is only available for Linux platforms. Please do NOT PORT Mausezahn to Windows!" 19:19:05 Insecure much? 19:22:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:29:10 hrrm 19:30:45 is there any way to pass a parameter list as a argument to a macro? example: I want a macro to declare a prototype (lets not discuss why right now), and I want to do something like #define MAKEPROTO(funcname, rettype, arguments) rettype someprefix ## funcname (arguments) 19:31:05 ais523, this sounds like something you may know? 19:31:08 hi btw ais523 19:31:33 AnMaster: in C99, yes 19:31:57 there's a __VA_ARGS__ keyword 19:32:02 ais523, ah nice, yes I'm doing C99 atm in fact (and yes I still have a reason to do prototypes in a strange way) 19:32:03 actually, I'm not sure about those trailing underscores 19:32:08 hm.. 19:32:23 there's a gcc extension, ,##__VA_ARGS__ 19:32:39 which removes the comma immediately before the variable arg list if there are no variable arguments 19:33:10 the traditional C89 trick, by the way, is to use an extra pair of parens 19:33:22 #define MAKEPROTO(funcname, rettype, arguments) rettype someprefix ## funcname arguments 19:33:31 and always enclose the arguments in a second pair of parens when passing them to the macro 19:33:34 ah that may work fine 19:33:43 as in MAKEPROTO(main, int, (int argc, char** argv)) 19:33:56 as for why: If it was C++ this would have been templates... 19:34:17 So why not make it C++? ;-P 19:34:49 Deewiant, I'll let you figure that out yourself... 19:43:28 hm ... 19:43:33 #define CF_MEMPOOL_FUNCPROT(m_rettype, m_funcname, m_args, m_attrs) \ 19:43:33 m_attrs m_rettype cf_mempool_ ## CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT ## m_funcname m_args 19:43:40 why doesn't it expand CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT I wonder... 19:43:48 yes it is defined before calling the macro 19:43:51 Macros aren't recursive 19:43:54 though after the macro was defined 19:44:07 Deewiant, how is that relevant? 19:44:09 #define CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT fspace 19:44:23 AnMaster: I mean they're not expanded recursively 19:44:43 so how to get it to work? hm 19:44:43 The contents of the macro aren't rechecked to see if they contain another macro 19:44:47 #define CF_MEMPOOL_FUNCPROT(m_rettype, m_funcname, m_args, m_attrs) \ 19:44:47 m_attrs m_rettype cf_mempool_ ## CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT ## m_funcname m_args 19:44:48 #define CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT fspace 19:44:49 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:44:59 CF_MEMPOOL_FUNCPROT(bool, setup, (void), FUNGE_ATTR_FAST) 19:45:10 Deewiant, I see hm 19:49:03 Deewiant: no, they are 19:49:04 it's just that 19:49:06 it'll turn into 19:49:13 cf_mempool_CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANTm_funcnam 19:49:14 e 19:49:18 which isn't a defined macro name 19:49:21 ehird: What, they are? 19:49:28 Deewiant: of course 19:49:31 that's why you can call a macro in a macro 19:51:03 I thought the expansion was done at #define time which'd have been why define FOO BAR and BAR FOO doesn't loop infinitely 19:51:07 But evidently not 19:52:18 I think there's recursion detection 19:52:26 it gets even more complex when ## is involved 19:52:33 ## has some weird rules with respect to macros 19:52:50 Oh noes, Home of the Underdogs is down 19:54:14 ok so why does it turn into cf_mempool_CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANTm_funcnam 19:54:23 AnMaster: Because that's how ## works. 19:54:26 hm 19:54:27 ok 19:54:34 Deewiant: pass ing CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT as an argument to that macro 19:54:39 s/ing// 19:54:45 s/Deewiant/AnMaster/ 19:54:51 wtf did I do there? 19:55:01 ah yes that should work 19:55:14 the problem is that the ## is happening before the #define expansion 19:55:34 aha 19:55:59 AnMaster: it helps to have the standard in front of you: if you search for n1124.pdf, you'll get one of the drafts proposed as an expansion to C99 19:56:08 which contains all the C99 stuff you need to care about 19:56:24 the drafts are available for free even though the standard itself isn't 19:56:37 -!- tombom has joined. 19:56:42 ais523, I have C99:TC3 (that is C99 + proposed bug fixes iirc) 19:56:54 ah, yes 19:58:18 need to pass it to the top macro even it seems 19:59:19 (I was using another macro calling the first one to define the various types, then calling that macro several times for the different variants 20:02:09 error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘*’ token 20:02:10 hm 20:02:38 ah I see 20:02:57 (missing "struct") 20:09:04 ais523, how mad would you say that including an internal header twice but with different defines to create two different implementations is? 20:09:32 I'm not sure if it's mad or not, I know I've done it lots of times but I think I'm mad too 20:09:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:10:38 carchive works using a program that recursively includes itself with different defines 20:11:23 carchive? 20:11:40 it's basically a program that inputs a set of files 20:11:47 and creates a C program that reconstructs them 20:12:04 it's a self-extracting archive program, just in portable C rather than as a Windows .exe 20:12:14 I wrote it a while back, I've never used it 20:13:19 heh 20:13:50 I was planning to use it to distribute C-INTERCAL 20:14:00 but pax is better for that, and besides carchive doesn't handle directories 20:18:24 oklopol_, this 4D-with-sound pong sounds interesting. Can you elaborate on what this wound mean in practise? <<< basically curveball, but also a fourth dimension in color and sound. 20:19:18 oklopol_, how would the sounds bit work (from a user perspective)? 20:19:43 so usually you'd try to stay in the same position as the ball until it turns your color and the sound has the correct pitch 20:19:48 would I sing to control the position of the paddle in the 4th dimension or what? 20:19:59 no two joysticks or smth 20:20:04 hm 20:21:31 oklopol_, what do you mean same position as the ball? And what is "curveball"? When I google I get stuff related to baseball hm. 20:21:43 http://www.google.com/search?q=curveball 20:21:53 Deewiant, so it is the baseball one then? 20:21:58 Top one is http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/curveball 20:21:59 read what I just said duh 20:22:13 Deewiant, not here. Here top one is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball 20:22:15 curveball is a flash game, and same position means you'd stay in the same 3d coords as the ball, in the cube 20:22:26 Deewiant, also I don't have flash as you know 20:22:28 of course, then there's 4d rotation of the cube.... 20:22:33 AnMaster: Actually I didn't know 20:22:51 Or maybe I did but I didn't consider it important enough to remember 20:23:01 Deewiant, meh, ehird claims I mentioned it millions of times before every time I mention it. 20:23:12 you can check out the tesseract rotation animations on wikipedia 20:23:14 so I thought "lets avoid that for once" 20:24:46 is not having flash an ideology issue, or why should people assume you're never going to take the 3 minutes it takes to install it? 20:25:57 oklopol_: partly ideology, partly security (it's the biggest cross-platform security hole in existence), and often people have a system it doesn't work on 20:26:16 also, not having Flash is really useful, do you have any idea how annoying Flash is? 20:26:34 also i asked a prof if they'd organize an exam on schaum's mathematical handbook, and they were like all philosophical "hmm interesting idea, if done right... but no, of course not" 20:28:30 i consider flash the cornerstone of internet, internet is mostly used to browse for flash content, then using it. 20:29:49 i guess i'd have to be a *nix user to know why it's annoying 20:30:01 heh 20:30:07 (joke is i am, this is my ubu machine) 20:31:39 maybe i should stop my mindless rambling and read about vector spaces 20:32:14 hm 20:32:24 cfunge_mempool_priv.h:90: warning: no previous prototype for ‘cf_mempool_CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT_setup’ 20:32:25 what 20:32:32 #define CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT fspace 20:32:33 #include "cfunge_mempool_priv.h" 20:32:49 then I'm calling a macro like: 20:32:51 (and drink the rest of my beers) 20:32:54 bool CF_MEMPOOL_FUNC(setup, CF_MEMPOOL_VARIANT) (void) 20:33:08 AnMaster: you need two layers of indirection 20:33:10 the macro is defined like: 20:33:10 #define CF_MEMPOOL_FUNC(m_funcname, m_variant) \ 20:33:10 cf_mempool_ ## m_variant ## _ ## m_funcname 20:33:21 ais523, hmm... 20:33:28 you want #define CF_MEMPOOL_FUNC(m_funcname, m_variant) CF_MEMPOOL_FUNC1(m_funcname, m_variant) 20:33:35 why is that? 20:33:36 and put the new value in FUNC1 20:33:48 is it alcoholism when you can't finish your beers and therefor need to drink for multiple weekends on end? 20:33:54 oklopol_: I don't know 20:33:56 *therefore 20:34:34 well you can generalize that and answer for another activity 20:34:48 AnMaster: weirdness with ## and macros 20:35:00 mhm 20:35:13 I thought the double macro thing was needed for # only 20:38:08 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:05:47 ais523, can't you use macros inside typedefs? 21:05:58 typedef struct CF_GHT_STRUCT(CF_GHT_VAR, hash_key) { 21:05:58 CF_GHT_KEY p_key; /**< The key. */ 21:05:58 } CF_GHT_NAME(CF_GHT_VAR, hash_key_t); 21:06:00 gives: 21:06:06 /home/arvid/src/cfunge/hotcold/lib/libghthash_fspace/ght_hash_table_priv.h(5): error: expected a ")" 21:06:06 typedef struct CF_GHT_STRUCT(CF_GHT_VAR, hash_key) { 21:06:06 ^ 21:06:08 from icc 21:06:10 and: 21:06:15 /home/arvid/src/cfunge/hotcold/lib/libghthash_fspace/ght_hash_table_priv.h:5: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘,’ token 21:06:17 from gcc 21:06:24 ais523, wondering why... 21:06:44 AnMaster: Did you run gcc -E? 21:06:48 Or cpp or whatever 21:06:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:06:59 AnMaster: typedefs are compile-time, macros are preprocess-time, they don't interact 21:07:06 hm ok 21:07:32 Deewiant, not yet, because for this file I need to pass lots of -I and so on, will do that next 21:07:50 typedef struct CF_LIBGHT_NAME_INTERN(s_, fspace, hash_key) { 21:07:50 fungeSpaceHashKey p_key; 21:07:50 } CF_LIBGHT_NAME_INTERN(ght_, fspace, hash_key_t); 21:07:52 blergh 21:07:56 :-P 21:07:58 that is the preprocessed result 21:08:09 oh a typo in the macro name 21:08:10 right 21:08:55 gcc went mad 21:08:59 line numbers are all wrong 21:09:03 /home/arvid/src/cfunge/hotcold/lib/libghthash_fspace/hash_functions_priv.h:97: warning: type defaults to ‘int’ in declaration of ‘ght_hash_key_t’ 21:09:08 that line is inside a comment... 21:09:17 huh 21:09:43 #line somewhere? 21:10:27 Deewiant, well probably, the actual error was 5 lines away 21:15:13 so who wants to know how I fixed synta 21:15:13 x 21:15:36 ehird, syntax of what? 21:15:42 syntax 21:16:22 what is "syntax" in this case? The name of some language or what? 21:16:48 Syntax 21:23:24 -!- Mony has changed nick to Guest94576. 21:24:21 yes tell me!" 21:24:51 haha: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/first-sale-president-obama-and-queen-england 21:24:57 -!- Guest94576 has changed nick to M0ny. 21:25:09 it seems President Obama gave an iPod with music on to the Queen of England 21:25:16 and nobody's entirely sure if that's legal or not 21:25:24 due to copyright law being so broken 21:25:34 Sue Obama!!!11one 21:26:11 well, all that's been deduced so far is that the Queen didn't break UK law as a result, because she's the Queen and can do what she wants 21:26:21 :-D 21:27:05 I don't quite like the idea of a legal system where that 'because' always applies but in this case I'm amused 21:27:18 anyone here an expert on vector spaces or should i just highlight oerjan 21:27:34 Start with your question and then highlight oerjan 21:27:40 hmm not a bad idea 21:27:45 Say, if nobody answers within a few minutes 21:27:53 Deewiant: the ability of the Queen to do whatever she wants has never been repealed 21:27:59 oklopol_, you already highlighted oerjan, except that he's not here 21:28:01 And also, oerjan doesn't seem to be here, so you're screwed anyway 21:28:02 although she can't introduce new laws, just reject the ones Parliament came up with 21:28:44 was just wondering could there be an infinite vector space for which there is no linearly independent subset which generates the space 21:29:15 it's just proved for finite vector spaces that there's always such a set 21:29:18 Intuition says 'no' 21:29:27 But I guess with the AoC anything can happen ;-P 21:30:45 well yes intuition says no, i just don't feel like proving it myself so i was hoping for a shortcut 21:31:00 probably just notational convenience it's only proved for finites 21:31:15 err 21:31:17 well okay 21:31:35 "generation" means linear combinations of *finite* subsets at a time 21:32:02 Hmm 21:32:23 so if there are linearly dependent vectors used to generate a vector in the space, then you could just use the other vectors they are linearly dependent with 21:32:48 With an infinite number of combinations... I don't see why generation would be impossible 21:33:23 oh waiyt 21:33:24 *wait 21:33:51 this is about a *maximal* generating subset 21:34:55 o 21:34:55 o 21:34:55 o 21:35:01 21:27 ais523: Deewiant: the ability of the Queen to do whatever she wants has never been repealed 21:35:04 yerk, seriously? 21:35:09 I'm going to become queen then kill everyone. 21:35:14 :-D 21:35:20 ehird: htf are you going to become Queen? 21:35:26 ais523: SHUT UP 21:35:43 I just need a time machine 21:35:49 and a serial cable connected to reality 21:35:52 hm 21:36:02 having a time machine is sufficient to be able to do anything anyway, you don't have to be the Queen as well 21:36:05 I suggest something with more bandwidth 21:36:20 Rewriting reality over a serial cable is likely to take a long time 21:36:25 But I guess that's why you need the time machine 21:36:43 ais523: er, are you sure? I mean, you can go and change everything by going back a few million years 21:36:48 but can you make subtle changes just because you're there? 21:36:53 having a time machine is sufficient to be able to do anything anyway, you don't have to be the Queen as well <-- only if you have the Ultimate Edition of it. 21:36:56 I don't think that's a given 21:37:25 Well, there's not much sense in talking about time machines unless you've defined the rules under which they operate 21:37:37 Given that in the real world, there are no such rules since they don't operate. :-P 21:37:40 or even if you've defined the rules 21:37:56 That's a matter of opinion. 21:37:59 Deewiant: time travel's been proven to be impossible? 21:38:08 since when 21:38:17 Deewiant: true. 21:38:50 ehird: Assumed impossible until proven possible. 21:38:53 ehird, " That's a matter of opinion." 21:39:25 Deewiant: Yes, well, that's a rather ridiculous view to take, it's not like there's no viable theories under which time travel is possible 21:39:29 "(the UK, after all, lacks a fair use doctrine)" o_O 21:40:37 there are no viable theories under which time travel is possible. 21:40:39 ehird: Viable? Do tell 21:40:48 Deewiant: It should be noted that I'm talking shit. 21:40:56 oh 21:40:59 You should know that I do that all the time by now. 21:41:00 Duly noted. 21:41:22 suddenly i decide to believe you 21:41:30 [yeah I'm the first poo that can talk isn't that amazing] 21:41:33 ↑ comedy 21:41:40 xxxxxxXXD 21:41:42 Next time you say something interesting, I'll tell you you're full of shit and you can't refute me. 21:42:19 Deewiant: are _you_ an instance of feces that can audibly communicate? no? then shut up. 21:42:28 kthx 21:42:33 What's an 'instance of faeces' 21:42:46 Is it like a crock? 21:42:52 according to south park the first talking poo was bono 21:42:58 If you want to be all hoi polloi about it, Deewiant, sure. 21:43:07 oklopol_: ++ 21:43:26 ehird: Ah, a sophisticated piece of shit. 21:44:17 In December 1982, an 8-year-old boy, Jeffrey R. Yee, supposedly received a letter from U.S. President Ronald Reagan congratulating him on a worldwide record of 6,131,940 points, a score only possible if the player has passed the Split-Screen Level.[16] Whether or not this event happened as described has remained in heated debate among video-game circles since its supposed occurrence. In September 1983, Walter Day, chief scorekeeper at Twin Galaxies, took 21:44:20 the US National Video Game Team on a tour of the East Coast to visit video game players who claimed they could get through the Split-Screen. No video game player could demonstrate this ability. In 1999, Billy Mitchell offered $100,000 to anyone who could provably pass through the Split-Screen Level before January 1, 2000; the prize went unclaimed.[16] 21:44:24 ↑ why don't they just make an ai to play it 21:44:26 :| 21:44:41 which game is that? 21:44:45 Pac-Man 21:44:52 ah 21:44:57 and what's the split-screen level? 21:45:00 Is there seriously a special "Split-Screen" level? 21:45:04 Sgeo: yes 21:45:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Split_Screen_in_Pac_Man.gif 21:45:08 level 256 21:45:09 It happens when the level counter rolls over 21:45:13 land of corrupted memory 21:45:20 "The 256th split-screen level can not be completed because of a software bug. " 21:45:21 oh, so it wasn't deliberate? 21:45:26 OR CAN IT ? ? ? 21:45:30 :-P 21:45:43 Pac-Man technically has no ending—as long as the player keeps at least one life, they should be able to continue playing indefinitely. However, because of a bug in the routine that draws the fruit, the right side of the 256th level becomes a garbled mess of text and symbols, rendering the level impossible to pass by legitimate means. Normally, no more than seven fruits are displayed at any one time, but when the internal level counter (stored in a sing 21:45:46 le byte) reaches 255, the subroutine erroneously causes this value to "roll over" to zero before drawing the fruit. This causes the routine to attempt to draw 256 fruits, which corrupts the bottom of the screen and the whole right half of the maze with seemingly random symbols.[14] 21:45:53 I want two hundred and fifty six fruits. 21:45:59 :-D 21:46:09 "as well as allowing players to see what would happen if the 256th level is cleared (the game loops back to the first level, causing fruits and intermissions to display as before, but with the ghosts retaining their higher speed and invulnerability to power pellets from the later stages)" 21:46:11 booooring 21:46:43 "Despite claims that someone with enough knowledge of the maze pattern could play through the level, it is technically impossible to complete since the graphical corruption eliminates most of the dots on the right half of the maze. A few edible dots are scattered in the corrupted area, and these dots reset when the player loses a life (unlike in the uncorrupted areas), but these are insufficient to complete the level" 21:46:45 god, why is this so lame 21:46:56 I was hoping for something like that memory-corruption tron thing 21:46:59 Bugs aren't usually particularly exciting 21:47:24 someone link to that tron thing, ais523? 21:47:37 I don't know it 21:48:26 ais523: yes you do, it was that thing on an old console where they made a lightcycle game and the AI shot the wall 21:48:31 I was hoping the split screen would be something like two pacman games with one set of controls 21:48:34 and started shooting corrupted memory 21:48:36 remember? 21:48:39 ehird: no I don't 21:48:48 >_< You said it was great when I linked it ages ago 21:48:49 I never knew, stop trying to claim I knew something when I didn't 21:49:17 You did know you've just forgotten because when I find the links I'll prove it via the logs :-P 21:50:57 ok, possibly the stupidest image on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Win3x_Black_Screen_of_Death.gif 21:51:18 "Screenshot in Virtual PC." :-) 21:51:38 not only that, it's an /animated/ screenshot 21:51:41 Even a gif animation, yes. 21:51:42 notice the blinking cursor? 21:51:51 I'm not even sure an animated screenshot makes sense 21:54:28 If it weren't for that, it'd be truly pointless 21:55:18 if that's not art then *i'm* not art. 21:56:43 so 21:56:46 oh, it's art, alright 21:56:50 i'm going to play frogger now 21:57:27 also turns out it's a proof in algebra II that infinite spaces always have an independent basis too 21:57:59 how wonderful 21:58:08 :-) 21:59:11 well "basic algebra 2" 22:00:23 i'm not gonna get to "algebra" in years 22:05:33 * kerlo realizes that the number 13 has magical being-close-to-100-when-multiplied-by-8 powers 22:05:52 :( 22:05:54 your output: 22:05:55 Hello, world! 22:05:55 expected: 22:05:55 Hello, world! 22:06:19 [\r\n]-issue? 22:06:24 Propably 22:06:38 Or trailing spaces 22:06:44 Or those spaces differ 22:07:07 i doubt latter 22:07:14 As do I, but it's possible 22:07:16 FireFly: no 22:07:22 sure. 22:07:23 anagolf strips whitespace 22:07:27 FireFly: so wutz the code? 22:07:28 wuts up 22:07:29 I don't like non-ASCII characters all that much. 22:07:29 Hm 22:07:31 oh anagolf 22:07:37 rights 22:07:47 Well, are you supposed to print \n or not? 22:07:56 One of our automagical-checkery programming homeworks was "do matrix inversion in C++", and the results-checker checked for exact match, so you had to perform all the operations in exactly the right order, to get the floating-point inaccuracies done the same way. 22:07:58 FireFly: it doesnt matter 22:07:59 it strips whitespace i hear 22:07:59 its stripped 22:08:01 what's your code 22:08:03 Hmh 22:08:16 Then my Befunge should be correct 22:08:31 fizzie: show it 22:08:35 "%hpvs{$0sppiL"v 22:08:35 <<<<<<,-4_@#:<<< 22:08:38 ...show it? 22:08:46 fizzie: how is that short 22:08:47 :| 22:08:50 er 22:08:51 FireFly: 22:08:52 Well 22:09:00 oh nick errorance 22:09:06 I couln't think of anything shorter 22:09:15 Deewiant: o_o 22:09:19 ? 22:09:28 22:08 FireFly: "%hpvs{$0sppiL"v 22:09:29 22:08 FireFly: <<<<<<,-4_@#:<<< 22:09:33 he's trying to golf hello world 22:09:38 Meh 22:09:41 Sorry :( 22:09:46 Btw 22:09:47 :P 22:09:56 a"!dlrow ,olleH"dk,@ 22:10:00 Without the letters "H", "e" etc. in the source 22:10:02 That's shorter isn't it :-P 22:10:02 ^ 22:10:13 "Helloworldless Hello world" 22:10:13 Oh 22:10:27 just do 1+ before outpu 22:10:28 t 22:10:32 and subtract one from the chars 22:10:32 or we 22:10:36 Well 22:10:40 I did a similar idea 22:10:41 FireFly: No newline in that 22:10:48 4- is just as good as 1+. 22:10:49 But -1 doesn't work 22:11:02 Not +1 either IIRC 22:11:09 Eg. you get chars that are forbitten 22:11:16 Such as e -> d 22:11:26 forbidden* 22:11:35 err aren't there 16 numbers in befunge 22:11:44 you have 31 possibilities 22:12:07 i have a hunch one of them doesn't have the illegal chars 22:12:11 oklopol_: e and d are numbers in hello world 22:12:17 Yeah, and -4 works for me 22:12:19 Yes, well, if that 4- in the code works, I don't see why it matters which one you pick. 22:12:21 "e and d are numbers" 22:12:24 so you only have 14 working numbers 22:12:24 ais523: err right 22:12:29 yes, i'm an idiot 22:12:30 O RLY 22:12:35 ehird: we're talking about Befunge-98 22:12:41 which uses hex digits 22:12:48 so yes, e and d are indeed numbers 22:12:49 this is in a string 22:13:00 ehird: the aim's to write a helloworldless hello world 22:13:01 Characters are also numbers FWIW 22:13:04 I know 22:13:15 fizzie: oh right didn't even read the source, assumed ehird readit :P 22:13:17 ehird: And you can't put "d+" in code either, since, you know, it's a d. 22:13:18 But the letters e and d are not numbers :P 22:13:19 *read it 22:13:43 how are e and d not numbers 22:13:55 kinda like 5 and 2 aren't numbers? 22:14:21 e is approximately 2.718281828. 22:14:34 e (hex) = 14 (decimal) 22:14:38 yes and d is 13 22:14:47 we all know hex, fizzie 22:14:59 oklopol_: Why are you telling me this? I'm not teaching you hex. 22:15:04 apparently apart from ehird 22:15:11 i know this 22:15:14 fizzie: did we make the same joke? 22:15:15 but you said e in a string 22:15:19 it's a letter there 22:15:21 context dammit 22:15:33 or did you just not get it was making one 22:15:57 oklopol_: I thought you might, but that's the problem with randomness: you can never be sure. 22:16:30 So, IMO my code should validate 22:16:32 fizzie: you can indeed never be sure; doesn't mean you don't have to guess correctly 22:19:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:34:52 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:39:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:42:08 Deewiant, btw exact bounds will be a compile time option for cfunge 22:42:09 :P 22:42:55 oh, so you can have incorrect y output but faster speed? 22:43:44 ais523, most programs doesn't depend on the bounds shrinking when space is written 22:44:02 and even though it isn't complete yet it already slows down execution... 22:44:15 without bounds: real 0m0.036s 22:44:29 that is, with old bounds that never shrink 22:44:42 with partly implemented exact bounds: real 0m0.046s 22:45:01 average of 20 runs 22:45:40 (with an initial run before to reduce "not in memory cache"-effect) 22:46:17 that is also redirecting output to /dev/null to reduce factors such as terminal 22:46:25 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 22:47:15 (output to terminal adds about 0.020 in fully buffered mode, and 0.050 in the default line buffered mode) 22:47:17 ais523, Å 22:47:24 s/Å/^/ 22:47:39 well, ok 22:49:35 yay, Google INTERCAL style guide back up 22:49:47 ais523, I have a local copy from google cache saved here 22:49:50 but where? 22:49:51 yep 22:49:56 and same place as before 22:50:00 mhm 22:50:11 http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html 22:50:30 I grabbed a copy from the live.com cache, it wasn't in the Google or Yahoo caches for some reason when I checked 22:50:32 http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/ <-- ? 22:50:44 AnMaster: they seem to be the same website 22:50:49 wait, no 22:51:02 the second one's just the one that mentions INTERCAL whenever you ask it a question 22:51:56 ais523, it doesn't 22:52:00 "CADIE is getting tired of your simple requests. Please request something more challenging." 22:52:06 but most of the time yes 22:52:07 well, not always, just usually 22:52:25 incidentally, much of that INTERCAL style guide is in fact very sane 22:52:31 most of the decisions are justified well 22:52:37 "The bit-shifting code necessary for your request would actually be easier to do in INTERCAL. Have you considered changing languages?" 22:52:37 :D 22:52:57 wow, the person who wrote that actualy knew enough INTERCAL to make that statement 22:53:13 bit-shifting is one of the only things which is actually occasionally easier in INTERCAL 22:53:17 in a few cases 22:53:17 ais523, some responses contain embedded intercal even 22:53:27 too long to paste here 22:53:29 what, really? 22:53:33 paste it anyway, pastebin if necessary 22:53:57 oh, I just got some 22:54:12 http://rafb.net/p/tNy0hj51.html 22:54:12 DO :3 <- '"'"'"'".1$':1~#32768'"~"#1109$#1"'$':1~#128'"~#2735'$':1~"#546$#0"'"~"#43679"'$':1~"#1365$#0"'"~"#1023$#63"'$'"'"'".1$#0"~#34959'$':1~"#0$#1170"'"~#11007'$':1~"#0$#2925"'"~"#2005$#255"' 22:54:14 there are some 22:54:22 ais523, that's yet another one 22:54:28 what was the message connected to it? 22:54:32 and for which language 22:54:41 "JavaScript is obsolete and inefficient. CADIE thinks you should use INTERCAL.", and you can guess the language 22:54:49 "Seriously, get back to work." <-- haha 22:54:54 it isn't yet another, that one's in your paste 22:55:15 anyway, that big expression, let me run it through C-INTERCAL's expression explainer 22:55:21 thanks to the work by Joris, it's quite good now 22:55:29