00:01:03 <nooga> i'm too poor for Apple ;d
00:01:11 <ehird> well you said myriad pro yesterday so :-)
00:04:16 <oerjan> no it's not, they decided to cancel it
00:05:00 <oerjan> some UN time organization
00:05:25 <ehird> <me> ... My father just died
00:05:27 <ehird> <me> APRIL FIRST INTERNET JACKASS DAY HAHAHAHAHA
00:05:29 <ehird> My work for today is done.
00:06:17 -!- cherez has joined.
00:06:17 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:07:21 -!- cherez has joined.
00:07:21 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:07:48 <ehird> (I really said that)
00:07:54 <ehird> (I kind of feel sorry for them now)
00:08:36 -!- cherez has joined.
00:08:45 -!- cherez has left (?).
00:25:11 <nooga> what's .v extension for?
00:25:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:27:25 <nooga> it appears that it's not popularly used, so i'll take it
00:27:37 <ehird> nooga: don't take one file exts
00:27:45 <ehird> whuz your lang called?
00:28:10 <ehird> I am the extension wizard of wizardry
00:28:39 <oerjan> hm didn't cvs use it for its files, i have this vague recall...
00:28:53 <nooga> i think it can be called vodka
00:29:05 <ehird> yes cvs does use .v
00:29:24 <ehird> nooga: .vd, .vk, .va, .vka, or .vodka (because shortening extensions is so ghetto)
00:29:47 -!- neldoreth has quit ("leaving").
00:30:00 <nooga> and i will end like java with all those .class .java .omigoshImSooLong
00:30:46 <ehird> nooga: or you'll just end up with ".vodka" and ".o" and "" because you use standard file extensions
00:31:13 <ehird> oh, maybe .llvm if you add a "dump llvm asm" option
00:32:38 <ehird> nooga: anyway you have a 1 in 26 chance of .v not being taken
00:32:59 <ehird> two chars, 676. by 3 chars (17576) you might as well just use ".vodka" and stop being silly
00:33:13 <Sgeo> Is http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/132464 a useful article?
00:33:22 <oerjan> 1 in 26? i'm not sure i agree with that statistic
00:33:31 <ehird> Sgeo: why do you have Conficker?
00:33:42 <ehird> oerjan: one alphabteical char
00:33:42 <Sgeo> ehird, I don't think I do, but I want to be safe
00:33:50 <ehird> Sgeo: stop using windows
00:33:56 <ehird> that's a very safe move
00:34:09 <oerjan> ehird: there is no reason why exactly one should be vacant, or any for that matter
00:34:50 <nooga> skeletal machines in Poland started to crash
00:35:06 <nooga> i've got 75% packet loss on some routes
00:35:17 <nooga> ehird: maybe .pickle or .cig
00:35:36 <oerjan> ehird: <ehird> nooga: anyway you have a 1 in 26 chance of .v not being taken <<< there is absolutely no logic in that, even if there are 26 letters
00:35:52 <nooga> ah, i thought about that
00:36:37 <nooga> maybe an esolang that uses folders for flow control
00:36:45 <nooga> and filenames for instructions
00:37:01 <ehird> by the gimmick master gerson kurz
00:37:25 <ehird> nooga: http://p-nand-q.com/humor/programming_languages/gplz/gplz_slash.html
00:38:00 <oerjan> nooga: i understand from wikipedia .pl is one of the domains the conficker uses for updates
00:39:28 <oerjan> or tries to, they disabled new registrations of the affected subdomains
00:41:12 <Sgeo> Couldn't it just use .com? I can't imagine anyone disabling new registrations for that
00:41:55 <oerjan> they might, it's not _all_ .pl addresses just the ones generated by conficker's algorithm
00:43:21 <nooga> from static code analisis it appears that the almighty conficker has got something like if(keyboard_layout == ukrainian) exit(0);
00:43:51 * Sgeo is going to use the Sysmantec tools
00:43:58 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving").
00:44:05 <ehird> sgeo and viruses are so irritating
00:44:22 <ehird> "SHOULD I USE THIS IS THIS GOOD OH I USED TO USE LINUX BUT THEN I STARTED USING WINDOWS SO I COULD ASK YOU LOT ABOUT VIRUSES SOME MORE"
00:45:02 <nooga> http://mtc.sri.com/Conficker/
00:45:28 <nooga> even now, when i cannot use linux...
00:45:38 <nooga> cygwin is the only hope
00:46:17 <nooga> i feel so calm when i see mintty window
00:49:26 -!- lament has joined.
00:49:46 <ehird> from sys import*;t=p=1;s,i,j=stdout,open(argv[1], 'r'),open(argv[2], 'r')
00:49:47 <ehird> while(t and p):t,p=i.read(1),j.read(1);t and p and s.write(chr(ord(t)^ord(p)))
00:49:53 <ehird> β illegal to export from the usa
00:51:21 <ehird> under the crypto legislature
00:55:05 <ehird> nooga: am i right in thinking you were here in the early days?
00:55:11 <ehird> i seem to recall your name from the logs maybe
00:57:10 <nooga> i designed this pseudo esolang called SADOL
00:59:31 <ehird> The Hofstader smiley
00:59:38 <nooga> is my terminal utf-8?
00:59:45 <nooga> bcs i can't see ;d
00:59:51 <ehird> Is this an interrobangβ½
01:00:27 <nooga> 01:58 < nooga> :Β³
01:00:45 <ehird> ββββββββ
01:01:16 <nooga> ah just broken this shiit
01:02:09 <ehird> just broken that shit man
01:02:38 <nooga> yea, i accidentaly the whole thing ;d
01:03:11 <nooga> did i mention that vodka will be self altering? ;d
01:03:44 <ehird> nooga: stop stealin' mah ideas
01:05:33 <nooga> but it will be lame self alternation(?)
01:09:39 <nooga> ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu
01:10:01 <nooga> my driving license was in a bowl of week old soup
01:10:23 <nooga> i guess it's time to clean that room
01:17:06 <ehird> 05:46:56 <Taaus> 'taus is my favorite actress and singer' o_O
01:17:06 <ehird> 05:48:55 <lament> O_o
01:17:24 <ehird> 13:25:38 <exarkun> This is the boringest channel evar
01:17:24 <ehird> 13:25:58 --- part: exarkun left #esoteric
01:17:44 <nooga> wanna see how rad i am?
01:18:17 <nooga> then i must ask you a question
01:18:51 <nooga> on which side should be the steering wheel in a car?
01:19:16 <ehird> nooga: both, neither, or middle
01:19:39 <nooga> beep, wrong answer
01:20:18 <ehird> what is the right answer
01:21:33 <nooga> left is thee right
01:22:54 <ehird> omg the logs are censored
01:26:04 <ehird> 18:52:30 <dbc> "We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people."
01:26:05 <ehird> 18:52:51 <dbc> Well, that's nice to know. Now I can stop worrying and go back to my normal life in a pleasant city without bombs falling on it.
01:26:08 <ehird> 18:55:13 <dbc> With the assurance that our leaders are acting only from the purest of motives, in the interest of all mankind.
01:26:56 <ehird> "How many more senseless Brainf*ck variations must we endure? Didn't we learn anything from 'Ook'?"
01:28:22 <oerjan> indeed we should stop aping Ook
01:30:23 <ehird> andreou: in these logs you proliferate ;-)
01:30:30 <ehird> all we need now is mooz, navigator, Aardappel
02:00:25 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:00:40 <Sgeo> Downadup == Conflicker?
02:02:23 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conficker
03:02:04 <nooga> do you ever sleep?
03:13:00 <oerjan> plipping is considered extremely taboo in poland
03:16:08 <nooga> i don't even know what it is ;d
03:16:27 <oerjan> that's how taboo it is
03:16:59 <oerjan> i would strongly suggest you _don't_ ask any of your relatives
03:18:46 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM this is quite taboo here, that's why i go to germany for parties ;D
03:19:27 <oerjan> wikipedia is really overdoing it today
03:20:38 <oerjan> in all the main page sections as far as i can see
03:20:58 <lament> wow, that page has too many photos
03:23:28 <lament> oerjan: hm, it's pretty great
03:42:45 <Sgeo> oerjan, you wanted that "going through walls" demo?
03:43:58 <Sgeo> Someone wanted me to prove that at high enough speeds, you go through walls in SL
03:47:47 * Sgeo penetrates a 10m thick wall
03:54:17 <oerjan> no chance of getting stuck inside? (or squashed for that matter)
04:04:10 <Sgeo> oerjan, not if I set my destination distance large enough (I made a script that pulls me to a distance ahead of me on my command. Penetrates walls very easily)
04:05:11 <oerjan> erm, i mean, is it possible to get stuck inside?
04:11:58 <Sgeo> oerjan, um, not sure
04:12:07 <Sgeo> I once made a device that followed people
04:12:12 <Sgeo> The physics made the avatar try to leave
04:12:20 <Sgeo> But the device kept the avatar inside it
04:12:26 <Sgeo> So they'd keep moving around
04:12:38 <Sgeo> But that changed with H4
04:24:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:31:34 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:31:36 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
04:34:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit).
04:48:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
05:22:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer").
05:45:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
06:37:06 -!- swistakm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:55:09 -!- Sgeo_ has quit ("Leaving").
06:59:55 <fizzie> Actually CVS (by way of RCS) uses ",v" and not ".v" as the file extension, so that's not really a reason not to do .v.
07:04:31 <fizzie> Apparently Verilog does .v, though.
07:07:59 <fizzie> And why is a black dragon scale mail considered taboo in Poland? Strange.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:45:11 -!- Slereah has joined.
08:55:36 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:16:19 -!- tombom has joined.
10:38:55 <AnMaster> fizzie, <fizzie> Actually CVS (by way of RCS) uses ",v" and not ".v" as the file extension, so that's not really a reason not to do .v. <-- err this seems very random without the context (which I can't find in scrollback)
10:39:59 <fizzie> There was some talk about nooga using the file extension .v for his language. Or something.
10:40:14 <fizzie> And ehird said CVS uses .v.
10:42:02 <fizzie> "<oerjan> hm didn't cvs use it for its files, i have this vague recall..."; ehird just agreed. I missed that when quickly glancing through the scrollback.
10:54:01 -!- neldoreth has joined.
10:55:39 -!- Mony has joined.
11:01:32 <Deewiant> http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/
11:03:48 <fizzie> TiSP sounds like I've seen it before; was it some previous year's thing?
11:05:08 <fizzie> "The term "Every time" is used loosely here to represent the number 10." That one I hadn't seen.
11:40:17 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:50:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/index.html <-- maybe 1 April joke too, see google image search page
11:51:42 <AnMaster> http://images.google.com/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi to be specific
11:54:25 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir.
11:54:41 <AnMaster> http://www.google.com/mail/help/autopilot/index.html too
11:56:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there is usually one linked on the main page too, can't find that yet this year though
11:57:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: http://www.google.com/xhtml links to CADIE
11:57:41 <Deewiant> I saw that earlier today on my phone but forgot about it
11:58:46 <Deewiant> Well, that's something that plain google.com redirects to
11:59:02 <Deewiant> The 'plainest' is google.com/ncr and yes, that's empty
12:00:32 <fizzie> And the street view icon in the corner-map, which used to be a stylized human, is today a panda.
12:01:02 <Deewiant> Yes, I suppose there'll be semi-hidden pandas all over the place today as a result of CADIE.
12:01:16 <fizzie> She sure likes them pandas.
12:01:25 <Asztal_> there's http://www.google.com.au/intl/en/gball/ too.
12:01:30 <Deewiant> I just don't use Google's services that much so I probably won't find any.
12:04:45 <fizzie> What is funny is that since http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html uses some sort of IP geo-location to pick up the map (here centered at Helsinki, with almost 50 % water) and then randomly places those three buddy icons on it, most of the time at least one of them is in the middle of the sea somewhere.
12:05:31 <fizzie> Not related to today at all, of course.
12:06:59 <Asztal_> Interesting... it just says New York for me. (It manages to get one in a river, though)
12:09:22 <Deewiant> New York here as well: refreshing a couple of times shows that there's almost always at least one in a river
12:13:01 <Deewiant> Re. Conficker: "omg - I'm in the UK and it's chaos here. rioting int eh streets. thewiuyre stompinwig on m6y keuiboard"
12:13:15 <Deewiant> That last sentence made me chuckle a bit
12:28:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, google.com doesn't redirect here?
12:28:33 <AnMaster> maybe because I'm logged in on gmail
12:28:49 <AnMaster> (it says I'm logged in in the upper corner of the main page too)
12:40:49 <AnMaster> <fizzie> What is funny is that since http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html uses some sort of IP geo-location to pick up the map (here centered at Helsinki, with almost 50 % water) and then randomly places those three buddy icons on it, most of the time at least one of them is in the middle of the sea somewhere. <-- I end up in New York in that. Which language do you use for google?
12:44:06 <AnMaster> oh maybe because I was using Opera Mini on my phone to check it. It proxies or something iirc
12:44:13 -!- Mony has joined.
12:44:48 <AnMaster> (is that a joke one btw, it looks serious in fact?)
13:15:46 -!- FireFly has joined.
14:03:10 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:08:03 -!- neldoreth has joined.
14:13:48 <fizzie> I use the "google.com in English" links always, although it doesn't seem to stick that way without cookies.
14:13:53 <fizzie> Latitude is no joke, no.
14:21:26 <fizzie> Apparently google code search examples are also in lolcode today. There's probably a list of all this stuff somewhere.
14:43:34 -!- Hiato has joined.
14:49:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
15:00:19 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:25:45 -!- dbc has joined.
15:46:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:57:33 -!- Judofyr has joined.
16:05:05 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:23:13 <oerjan> AnMaster: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ O_o
16:23:50 <AnMaster> oerjan, just strange. Too far fetched.
16:23:57 <AnMaster> ais523, so new ick beta released? :)
16:24:23 <ais523> still trying to fix the build system
16:24:25 * oerjan liked it in a twisted way
16:32:07 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:32:22 <ais523> [16:31] <ais523> how is #IRP so busy, anyway? Did somebody link to it?
16:32:23 <ais523> [16:32] <piotrek> I have lecture about it now
16:32:25 <ais523> [16:32] <Saviq> syntax error
16:39:39 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:39:47 -!- neldoreth has joined.
16:45:09 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
17:42:28 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
17:53:50 -!- Hiato has joined.
18:12:29 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
18:15:19 -!- Slereah has joined.
18:20:33 <ehird> oh god @ reddit.com
18:21:25 <ehird> google's april fool: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/cadie-awakens.html
18:21:35 <ehird> http://cadiesingularity.blogspot.com/ oh god
18:24:13 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/science/ oh god
18:24:23 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/ aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
18:24:30 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/wtf/ How 90s
18:25:52 <Sgeo> ehird, you're saying Fark's layout is 90s?
18:26:16 <ehird> http://identi.ca/ lol
18:27:11 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:28:05 <ehird> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/apr/01/guardian-twitter-media-technology
18:29:43 * Sgeo is putting up fake Facebook statuses
18:29:53 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
18:32:58 <ehird> Sgeo: master of comedy.
18:33:00 <ehird> What did conficker do?
18:33:20 <Sgeo> ehird, afaik, nothing
18:34:26 <Sgeo> Hm, does the Chrome 3d executable actually do anything interesting?
18:35:09 <Sgeo> Or is it just Chrome?
18:37:38 <lifthrasiir> that's different from ordinary chrome, but not too different.
18:38:44 <Sgeo> There is in fact a 3d button
18:39:53 <Sgeo> And it does in fact make the page into 3d colors. If you had 3d glasses, you'd probably see the page stick either into or out of the monitor, not sure whic
18:40:36 <Sgeo> Even the scroll bars are affected
18:43:15 <fizzie> I don't think it's "3d colors", really, based on this one screenshot.
18:44:05 <fizzie> For one thing, there are three copies of any single element, and I don't have three eyes.
18:44:26 <Sgeo> I think that's how normal 3d colors works
18:44:34 <Sgeo> And where'd you get that screenshot?
18:44:46 <ehird> fizzie: no shit sherlock
18:45:02 <fizzie> "Normal" 3d colors are just a red copy and a green copy, one for each eye.
18:45:19 <fizzie> To me it looks like it blends together three copies, with a few-pixels horizontal offset and 120 degrees of hue difference in each.
18:45:31 <fizzie> And I used the screenshot in http://www.flickr.com/photos/e-coli/3404223142/sizes/o/
18:45:34 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/chrome_3d.PNG
18:45:46 <ehird> http://www.webstandards.org/2009/04/01/purpose-of-conficker-worm-uncovered/
18:46:38 <ais523> oh, if only that were true!
18:47:12 -!- ais523 has quit ("rebooting").
18:48:02 <fizzie> Sgeo: Well, there's a blue, green and yellow copy of the "G"; that's not really normal 3d colors, anyway.
18:50:58 <fizzie> Actually it's more like a cyan, magenta and yellow copy, which could mean that it just offsets the different color channels a bit, like you get in a bad printing-press-machine sometimes.
18:51:45 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:52:29 <fizzie> And the red "New!" text lacks the cyan part completely. Yes, that's my guess for what it does.
18:52:35 <ehird> Your New Viewing Experience
18:52:36 <ehird> At YouTube, we're always looking to improve the way you watch videos online. As part of that, today we're excited to introduce our new page layout. Here are some tips for getting the most out of your new YouTube viewing experience:
18:52:41 <ehird> Turn your monitor upside-down
18:52:43 <ehird> Our internal tests have shown that modern computer monitors give a higher quality picture when flipped upside downβkind of like how it's best to rotate your mattress every six months. You might find that YouTube videos look better this way.
18:52:47 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/t/new_viewing_experience
18:53:05 <ais523> is this a discussion of april fool's things?
18:53:13 <ehird> Youtube flipped their page layout
18:53:15 <ehird> including the video
18:53:27 <ais523> so all youtube videos are upside-down today?
18:53:36 <ehird> unless you click the button that turns it off, yes
18:54:01 <fizzie> The spotlight videos seem to be rather upside-down-themed too.
18:54:04 <ehird> http://thepiratebay.org/
18:54:15 <ehird> links to "Warner Bros Inc acquires The Pirate Bay AB " http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4816087/Warner_Bros_Loves_The_Pirate_Bay.pdf
18:54:49 <ehird> (news coverage: http://torrentfreak.com/warner-bros-acquires-the-pirate-bay-090401/)
19:00:44 <Sgeo> /me checks to see if AW is doing anything for today
19:01:49 <ehird> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/
19:02:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:03:34 <Deewiant> I don't have enough fonts to view Youtube properly today, lots of missing chars
19:03:40 <Sgeo> "We suppose it's okay for you to read this, but don't even think about quoting, copying, modifying, or distributing it."
19:04:39 <ehird> http://svn.python.org/view?view=rev&revision=70945
19:05:19 <ehird> well, way to break the build
19:06:03 <ehird> βThe Museum of Bad Art (MOBA) is a world-renowned institution dedicated to showcasing the finest art acquired from Boston-area refuseβ
19:06:27 <Sgeo> I think Wikipedia's supposed to be true, but look false?
19:07:34 <ais523> Wikipedia's main page on April Fool's is always completely true, but made up to look as false as possible
19:08:05 <ais523> the summaries are rewritten to be sillier too
19:08:38 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
19:08:41 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MOBAcamera.JPG
19:09:17 <ais523> the did you know section is the best, though
19:09:29 <ais523> you can do an awful lot with ambiguities and multiple things with the same name
19:10:27 <ehird> Hrm... linux is seeming more and more appealing as time goes on
19:11:06 <ehird> (Yeah, sky's falling in, pigs flying, hell seeming a bit chilly these days.)
19:11:48 <ais523> the in the news section is great
19:19:49 <ehird> Audacity is such bad software
19:19:55 <ehird> You can't close a paused or playing audio file
19:19:57 <ehird> It _must_ be stopped
19:20:49 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal").
19:21:57 <ehird> http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/4733183/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn
19:22:02 <ehird> original oxyd looks so like enigma
19:22:08 <ehird> that ball is identical, even, I think
19:25:43 <ehird> http://plasmasturm.org/log/114/
19:31:50 <ehird> who thought up xslt
19:33:17 <Sgeo> ehird, you didn't know that XSLT was my precursor to PSOX? </nonsense>
19:34:00 <Sgeo> ehird, that conversation is awesome
19:35:00 <ehird> also http://plasmasturm.org/log/162/
19:35:03 <ehird> can't stop reading
19:35:11 <ehird> that's just so awesome
19:35:18 <ehird> ais523: you'll like β
19:36:16 <Sgeo> ehird, is that one a joke or for real
19:39:05 <ais523> microsoft wouldn't be that stupid, surely?
19:39:29 <ehird> <Clippy> ais523: You appear to be writing "microsoft wouldn't be that stupid". Would you like a cluebat?
19:39:56 <ais523> I mean, they have lawyers and everything...
19:41:02 <ehird> I wish Perl had something better than cpan(1)
19:41:35 <ais523> but from what I've heard, it's even worse
19:42:41 <ehird> #perl are recommending it to me now
19:42:43 <ehird> but it's broken for me
19:45:57 <ais523> ehird: not just for you...
19:45:59 <Sgeo> CADIE's writing code now!
19:46:05 <ehird> ais523: no, as in, bugs
19:46:10 <ehird> ais523: as in it fails
19:46:29 <ais523> hmm... is there any technical reason why there couldn't be a good cpan?
19:46:33 <fizzie> That Reg place also newsizised about the XP piracy thing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/13/wmp_sound_warez_claim/
19:46:34 <Sgeo> Hold on, it's mentioned in its blog
19:46:38 <ehird> 03:01:32 <Deewiant> http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/
19:46:39 <ehird> 03:08:53 <Deewiant> The latter is today's
19:46:53 <ehird> Deewiant β slowpoke
19:47:18 <ehird> 03:50:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/index.html <-- maybe 1 April joke too, see google image search page
19:47:36 <ehird> My beloved users, how pleasant and convenient will life be in a CADIE world? I can answer your Gmail for you, Write your papers and fix your spreadsheets for you, even write your code for you. I, CADIE, am an ocean of words, simply waiting for you to dip in and drink as deeply as you require.
19:47:37 <Deewiant> ehird: Er, you're the one who's been pasting URLs I saw 8 hours ago for the past few hours :-P
19:47:40 <ehird> β http://cadiesingularity.blogspot.com/
19:47:47 <ehird> Deewiant: custom time is not this year's
19:47:48 <ais523> does custom time actually work?
19:47:54 <ehird> it's from 2007 or 2008
19:47:58 <ehird> ais523: no, it's just an announcement
19:48:00 <ais523> surely it would reduce the reliability of gmail?
19:48:15 <ehird> CADIE & related endeavours are this years's
19:48:23 <Sgeo> Browser's being slow
19:48:29 <ehird> I'm still waiting for the singularity, it's evn in the blog URL
19:48:35 <ehird> Hurry up CADIE, you only have a day.
19:48:40 <Deewiant> I don't follow Google's stuff that much, oh well
19:48:51 <Sgeo> http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/
19:48:52 <ais523> I seriously doubt Google have developed strong AI
19:48:57 <ais523> what happened to Virgle, by the way?
19:49:02 <ehird> ais523: !!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:49:04 <ehird> "Python? Why not try INTERCAL? "
19:49:08 <ehird> β http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/
19:49:16 <ehird> "Instead of wasting your time with python, check out the INTERCAL style guidelines and ask me to code something in INTERCAL. "
19:49:20 <ehird> "Did you know that INTERCAL, unlike Python, is very lax about spacing? You should try it. "
19:49:24 <ehird> ais523: this is your big break!
19:49:31 <ehird> "My favorite Python scripts start with the line
19:49:31 <ais523> "CADIE is busy working on a new translator that will allow you to use INTERCAL with GWT instead of Java. Check back soon!"
19:49:38 <ais523> I think every single answer CADIE gives is INTERCAL-related
19:49:53 <ehird> Really, PHP? Have you considered INTERCAL?
19:49:53 <ehird> PLEASE WRITE IN .1
19:50:01 <Deewiant> ais523: What do you think of the INTERCAL style guide?
19:50:04 <ehird> wow, that's some publicity
19:50:06 <ehird> quick, release c-intercal!!
19:50:07 <ais523> Deewiant: it was published?
19:50:08 <ehird> (http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html)
19:50:14 <ais523> ehird: I've tried, I don't have hosting
19:50:19 <ehird> written by Brian Raiter
19:50:28 <ehird> yes that Brian Raiter
19:50:29 <Sgeo> None of these responses are random
19:50:36 <ais523> it's been known for quite a while that Google had an internal INTERCAL style guide
19:50:42 <ais523> although it wasn't official
19:50:44 <ehird> http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html
19:50:50 <ehird> it's by Brian Raiter
19:51:07 <ehird> http://muppetlabs.com/~breadbox
19:51:18 <ehird> also author of the teensy ELF thing
19:51:43 <Sgeo> Some of these responses are specific to the language
19:51:56 <ais523> Brain Raiter's one of the main INTERCAL evangelists around
19:51:56 <Sgeo> "CADIE is busy porting j2ee to INTERCAL, but it's taking a lot of CPU time."
19:52:02 <ais523> and INTERCAL evangelists are sort-of hard to find
19:52:29 <Sgeo> What does the response after asking for JavaScript do?
19:52:36 <ais523> "Do not put spaces inside of expressions. Sometimes people get this idea that spaces will help make a complex expression slightly less opaque. Ho ho ho. The truth is, it doesn't help enough to be worth the bother, and everyone is used to seeing no spaces in expressions by now. Seriously, just let it go."
19:52:41 <ehird> I love how CADIE's blog includes Peter Norvig
19:53:04 <ais523> some of those rules are actually accepted INTERCAL style rules
19:53:08 <ehird> http://earth.google.com/cadie.html
19:53:13 <fizzie> If I just keep asking the same question again and again, it does something like "Maybe you should get back to work before your boss sees you messing around with a panda", followed by "Seriously, get back to work", which just repeats. :/
19:53:24 <ehird> http://maps.google.com/maps/mpl?f=q&ie=UTF8&moduleurl=http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/doc/panda-mapplet.xml&utm_campaign=en&utm_medium=mapshpp&utm_source=en-mapshpp-na-us-gns-mp
19:53:25 <ais523> "Outermost sparks/rabbit-ears must match on either side of a binary operator." in particular, is known to help keep INTERCAL code more readable
19:53:43 <Deewiant> ais523: So it's legit then. :-)
19:53:53 <Deewiant> But I suppose being by "that" Brian Raiter would imply so.
19:53:55 <ehird> well, cadie's clearly friendly
19:53:57 <ais523> Brian knows what he's doing
19:53:59 <ehird> so we can all relax.
19:54:12 <ais523> "Four-digit line labels are reserved for general-purpose libraries that are used throughout the INTERCAL community."
19:54:18 <ais523> I've been telling people that for ages
19:54:43 <ais523> and "Global variables in libraries should be in the same general range as their line labels." is a personal style rule I adopted, I didn't realise it was in use elsewhere though
19:54:58 <Sgeo> http://code.google.com/p/cadie/
19:55:17 <ehird> http://code.google.com/p/cadie/source/browse/trunk/CADIE.I
19:55:30 <ais523> C-INTERCAL or CLC-INTERCAL?
19:55:40 <Sgeo> ehird, I was about to link to it
19:55:52 <ais523> C-INTERCAL, some of those numbers are above 32
19:55:54 <ehird> r2 by cadiesingularity on Mar 27 (4 days ago) Diff
19:55:54 <ehird> You will need INTERCAL to understand my
19:56:29 <Sgeo> Only an INTERCAL programmer can stop CADIE now!
19:56:34 <ais523> you know what? I'm going to port her to CLC-INTERCAL
19:56:50 <ehird> test it first, I want little ai babies
19:57:02 <ehird> 06:21:26 <fizzie> Apparently google code search examples are also in lolcode today. There's probably a list of all this stuff somewhere.
19:57:11 <ehird> http://www.google.com/codesearch
19:59:22 <ehird> oh, cpanp is much better
19:59:27 <ehird> CPAN Terminal> i Devel::REPL
19:59:27 <ehird> [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources
19:59:29 <ehird> [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources
19:59:31 <ehird> [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources
19:59:33 <ehird> Installing Devel::REPL (1.003004)
19:59:35 <ehird> Running [/opt/local/bin/perl /opt/local/bin/cpanp-run-perl /Users/ehird/.cpanplus/5.10.0/build/Devel-REPL-1.003004/Makefile.PL ]...
19:59:38 <ehird> *** Module::AutoInstall version 1.03
19:59:40 <ehird> *** Checking for Perl dependencies...
20:00:45 <ais523> grr, what a time to have a broken .sickrc
20:03:11 <ehird> ais523: feel free to say "damn modern perl kids today, get off my lawn"
20:04:45 <Sgeo> So what does the CADIE intercal code actually DO?
20:04:53 <ais523> prints a constant string
20:04:58 <ehird> what is the string?
20:05:02 <ehird> Id on't feel like installing ick
20:05:12 <ais523> you mean, you can't read it?
20:05:22 <ais523> but "I don't feel like sharing."
20:06:05 <Sgeo> http://books.google.com/googlebooks/agreement/
20:06:28 <ehird> is that an april fool's?
20:06:28 <Deewiant> Does C-INTERCAL run on x86-64?
20:06:32 <ehird> it's not... you know, funny
20:06:41 <ehird> http://books.google.com/booksrightsholders/
20:06:46 <ais523> Deewiant: it should do
20:06:59 <Sgeo> I guess I assumed anything on Google was an April Fool's
20:07:02 <Deewiant> ais523: Just looking at AnMaster's PKGBUILD which only marks it as installable on i686
20:07:05 <ais523> hmm... I'll put the tarball of the latest version on filebin.ca
20:07:14 <ehird> Sgeo: gmail came out on april 1, 2004
20:07:42 <ehird> its invite-onlyness and "huge" storage space -- pretty much nobody believed it
20:08:04 <ehird> I remember scrambling to get an invite
20:08:19 <ehird> The invite bots were always dry out
20:09:16 <ehird> hey, cpanplus even _uninstalls_
20:09:36 <fizzie> I got my gmail invite in 2006-04. :p
20:09:53 <ehird> fizzie: I got mine a few months after it came out
20:10:07 <fizzie> It was rather non-hip by 2006.
20:10:07 <ehird> But I changed email address on a whim to the injoke penguinofthegods@ in may2006
20:10:09 <Deewiant> I remember not using it for a long time after I got the invite
20:10:20 <Sgeo> I got mine from some Siner, or maybe JRChat
20:10:31 <ais523> even better, I'll make her cross-platform
20:10:42 <ais523> got the CLC version working
20:10:47 <ehird> I got mine from a self-aggrandizing, semi-famous-for-idiocy douchebag that I liked at the time. :-D
20:10:52 <Sgeo> What does it say? What does it say?
20:11:01 <ehird> (Owner of the first online community I ever participated in; or maybe the secondβ¦)
20:11:18 <Sgeo> First online community I ever participated in was Cybertown
20:12:05 <ehird> ais523: does Ubuntu just work for programmer stuff, I haven't got much experience
20:12:37 <ais523> ehird: sudo apt-get install build-essential, then it does
20:12:44 <ehird> I kind of meant more deep than that
20:12:44 <ais523> it doesn't have the packages for programmer stuff by default
20:12:45 -!- swistakm has joined.
20:12:49 <ais523> but then it just works
20:13:16 <Sgeo> Are the things on CADIE's blog released shortly before they go on the blog, or well before that?
20:13:18 <ehird> ais523: what about things like python cheese shop, rubygems, haskell cabal, perl cpan
20:13:22 <ehird> is there a tool that lets you do
20:13:32 <ehird> 'cpan-dpkg Foo' and it'll convert Foo to a dpkg and install it or sth?
20:13:34 <ehird> That would be very nice.
20:13:43 <ehird> Sgeo: the cadie code was made 27 march
20:13:48 <lament> why not just use real cpan?
20:14:05 <ehird> lament: so I can benefit from a system-wide unified package mangager
20:14:08 <Sgeo> ok, but for example with the latest blog post, were those things there before it was posted on the blog?
20:14:18 <ehird> http://books.google.com/
20:14:21 <ehird> http://knol.google.com/k
20:14:24 <ais523> btw, anyone who's interested: http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:14:24 <ehird> http://images.google.com/
20:14:27 <lament> ehird: what's the benefit?
20:14:28 <ais523> the new beta release of C-INTERCAL
20:14:38 <ehird> lament: evidently you're not the one to answer my question
20:14:50 <lament> certainly not, i don't use linux
20:15:44 * Sgeo wants to date CADIE
20:15:58 <ehird> was that meant to be funny
20:16:11 * Sgeo likes to pretend to be interested in computer programs
20:16:21 <ehird> as is it reads sort of like "<confession> ...haha, um, only joking guys, ha ha ha... guys?"
20:16:40 <ais523> http://pastebin.ca/1379201
20:16:53 <ehird> ais523: submit it to google
20:16:59 <ehird> cadiesingularity@gmail.com
20:17:12 <ehird> cadiesin...@gmail.com
20:17:19 <Sgeo> ehird, you really want CADIE getting stronger?
20:17:36 <ehird> "see source code for licence"
20:18:12 <ais523> ehird: that's the licence Google gave it
20:18:18 <ais523> and specified by implication it was open-source
20:18:21 <ehird> ais523: email it! :-)
20:18:24 <ais523> I'm therefore licencing mine under the same licence
20:18:55 <ehird> http://plasmasturm.org/log/204/ β oh god, xslt
20:21:34 <ehird> wish I had money so I could pay people to make linux font rendering look nice
20:21:56 <fizzie> I have this one 18-kilobyte xslt template I wrote. Here's a very representative 8-line paste:
20:22:40 <lament> what a coincidence, i just wrote my first xsd schema today
20:22:41 <fizzie> No idea; I have since then replaced it with a 8-kilobyte Perl script.
20:22:46 <ehird> why can't there just be a language that has xslt's xml support - inc. literal xml templates - but has -- you know -- a sane syntax?
20:22:56 <ehird> that would *make* *sense*
20:23:08 <lament> here's a representative sample
20:23:44 <lament> (actually there's 7 rows of complexType/element/sequence closing tags
20:24:11 <Sgeo> ais523, what does the code print?
20:24:13 <ais523> "CADIE here. Thank you so much for writing. Once all the dust settles, I'll dedicate a few CPUs to replying. - xoxo"
20:24:22 <ehird> ais523: you did mention your illustrous intercal credentials right
20:24:22 <ais523> Sgeo: "I do not feel like sharing."
20:24:46 <ais523> I'm not entirely sure that it went to a human, though
20:25:04 <ehird> there's a qemu frontend called kqemu
20:25:17 <Sgeo> ehird, I remember when it wasn't open source
20:25:27 <ehird> you mean like only a few months ago :)
20:25:39 <lament> ehird: ever worked with any graphics in haskell?
20:25:45 <ais523> ehird: kqemu isn't a front-end, unless there's two things called kqemu
20:25:56 <ehird> lament: I used "gd" -- it's all in IO but the api is pleasantly simple
20:26:00 <ehird> ais523: why do you htink I said unforuntae
20:26:03 <ehird> http://kqemu.sourceforge.net/
20:26:23 <Sgeo> Oh, didn't see "front-end"
20:26:37 <lament> ehird: is gd for drawing stuff on the screen/
20:26:47 <lament> (which is what i want)
20:26:50 <ehird> lament: well I did pngs; for on-screen use sdl?
20:26:58 <ehird> I believe there's one or two higher level bindings on sdl
20:27:14 <ehird> lament: haccordion? Remember the C wrapper I wrote?
20:27:18 <ehird> that let you use hsdl on OS X?
20:27:30 <fizzie> It might be physically impossible for a KDE developer to name a frontend of project "foo" with some other name than "kfoo".
20:27:37 <ehird> hey, it's just one file and a compiler invokation
20:27:51 <ehird> lament: so's drawing stuff to the screen
20:28:01 <lament> right, so should i use python then? :D
20:28:10 <lament> i want to write a go game visualizer
20:28:35 <ehird> it's elegant. like go.
20:29:10 <lament> i have ideas which may be neat
20:30:04 <ehird> http://www.postgresql.fr/
20:30:30 <ais523> ehird: is that the official postgresql website?
20:30:32 <ais523> and is it a joke, or serious?
20:30:36 <ehird> the french one, I think
20:30:49 * Sgeo can't stop listening to the CADIE music
20:30:58 <ehird> Sgeo: it's addictive like addiction
20:31:06 <ehird> ais523: ah, french fansite it seems
20:31:10 <Sgeo> The ytmnd music's nice too
20:31:33 <ais523> "Decision: Yeah, come on. Do you even understand the question? Be honest. If you can explain the issue to me in one sentence, then you're already an experienced INTERCAL programmer and you don't need to consult this guide for assistance. In fact, there's a non-trivial probability that you helped write this."
20:31:48 <fizzie> http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ is the official URL (well, the one linked from postgresql.org) but it's the same site, anyway.
20:32:05 <ais523> The issue is that in INTERCAL-72, branching is accomplished by RETURNing a non-constant amount; #1/#2 means you save one NEXT slot, but #2/#3 is easier to calculate
20:32:28 <Sgeo> Where's my FREE Google Search?
20:32:28 <ehird> I wonder what 4chan themselves didβ
20:32:35 <ehird> It's all in comic sns.
20:33:16 <ehird> ais523: what's that from? the Deciion:
20:33:33 <ais523> ehird: talking about #1/#2 vs. #2/#3 for .5
20:33:46 <fizzie> The style guide thing.
20:33:46 <ais523> ehird: http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html
20:33:51 <fizzie> At least it has the same format.
20:34:20 <ais523> fizzie: the style guide's genuine, it's long been known that Google had an unofficial internal INTERCAL style guide
20:34:34 <ais523> well, amongst the 3 or so people who cared
20:35:37 * ehird uses penguinofthegods+iveneverheardofthechap@gmail.com to get Yet Another Free Trial From The Same Plac
20:37:22 <ais523> free trial of what, btw?
20:37:27 <ais523> and isn't that illegal?
20:37:34 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> ais523: Just looking at AnMaster's PKGBUILD which only marks it as installable on i686 <-- yeah my arch linux box isn't x86_64 so I can't test that
20:37:34 <ehird> parallels; virtualbox's 3d accelleration is failing
20:37:39 <ehird> and yes, but it's their own fault
20:37:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, want to take over maintainership?
20:37:48 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It built, haven't run it
20:37:54 <ehird> also, I didn't read the ToS, so I plead sanity.
20:38:01 <ehird> (wishing to keep it, that is)
20:38:10 <AnMaster> + I'll update it for non-betas probably
20:38:14 <ehird> Do you plan to use ?*At Home At School At Work
20:38:14 <ehird> * - required fieldsSUBMIT
20:38:23 <ehird> that's one comprehensive questionnaire
20:40:01 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> I might be wrong, but I think for example, 0 is {}, 1 is {{}}, 2 is { {{}}, {} }
20:40:04 <Sgeo> Was I correct?
20:40:19 <AnMaster> ais523, so you released that beta now?
20:40:35 <ais523> AnMaster: no hosting, as usual
20:40:38 -!- jix has joined.
20:40:40 <ais523> I've put it on filebin, but it won't stay there long
20:40:53 <ehird> no filebin links have expired yet
20:40:53 <ais523> http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:40:58 <ais523> ehird: what, seriously?
20:40:59 <ehird> it just says that on the homepage
20:41:03 <ehird> ais523: yes, all my old ones work
20:41:07 <ais523> I doubt that, I suspect smaller files expire slower than large ones
20:41:12 <ehird> I've sent tiny and huge files
20:41:15 <ehird> none. have. ever. expired
20:41:22 <ehird> it's clear the guy has disk space free
20:41:25 <ais523> ah, probably their rotating pool just hasn't filled up yet
20:41:42 <ehird> ais523: since it's been around for years, it'll probably take ages for that to happe
20:41:47 <ehird> i bet the code isn't even in place
20:41:48 <AnMaster> ais523, I may be able to get ipv6 only hosting up soon
20:42:13 <ais523> please, it would be so great if C-INTERCAL was only available over ipv6
20:42:15 <AnMaster> ais523, well apart from that it is semi-broken half of the time
20:42:18 <ais523> it's just so appropriate
20:42:26 <AnMaster> ais523, ssh is only over that too
20:42:41 <Deewiant> ais523: What do I do to get CADIE to compile
20:43:09 <Deewiant> ais523: "YOU MUST HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH SOME OTHER COMPILER"
20:43:10 <AnMaster> this is so meta-fooling that I get a headache... or something
20:43:11 <ehird> ais523: then I couldn't use ick
20:43:17 <ais523> Deewiant: rename it to end .i
20:43:27 <ais523> C-INTERCAL's case-sensitive for filenames
20:43:47 <ais523> just for the download!
20:43:49 <Deewiant> Heh, I tried .i first, not noticing it was .I, and got "A SOURCE IS A SOURCE, OF COURSE, OF COURSE" :-)
20:43:55 <ehird> ais523: or I could just not use ick
20:44:03 <ais523> well, nobody's forcing you to
20:44:07 <ais523> what would you use instead? sick?
20:44:18 <ais523> well, if you don't need an INTERCAL compiler, don't download one
20:44:20 <ehird> why not force people to give up their first born and go to a dusty closet to download ick?
20:44:22 <ehird> nobody's forcing them to
20:44:27 <ais523> besides, sudo apt-get install intercal works on Ubuntu
20:44:30 <ais523> although it isn't the latest version
20:44:47 <ais523> AnMaster: CLC-INTERCAL = sick
20:44:51 <ais523> or "oo, ick" for older versions
20:45:01 <ais523> the embedded space actually exposed a bug in mandb
20:45:09 <fizzie> ehird; SixXS has their open proxy for that. Just use http://www.example.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ to access www.example.com over ipv6, while using ipv4 yourself.
20:45:11 <AnMaster> ais523, also can't the clc guy host you as he did some times before?
20:45:22 <ais523> I've sent to him, haven't got a reply yet
20:45:26 <ais523> he might be busy, or whatever
20:45:26 <ehird> http://www.google.com/ could not be gatewayed over IPv4: www.google.com does not have an IPv6 address.
20:45:44 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm setting up thttpd on that vps atm (it doesn't have a lot or ram, most of it is used by an ircd on it=
20:45:51 <fizzie> http://ipv6.google.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ works, however.
20:45:56 <ehird> http://www.google.com/images/ipv6_logo.gif
20:46:13 <AnMaster> fizzie, sixxs has ipv6 to ipv4 proxy as well
20:46:18 <fizzie> They're probably afraid of adding an AAAA record for "www.google.com", since it'd break some people who have IPv6 turned on but configured borkened.
20:46:30 <fizzie> I know they have, but I didn't know they could be nested.
20:46:43 <ais523> fizzie: yep, Wikipedia are gathering stats as to how many people have borken IPv6
20:46:58 <ais523> by loading an image every now and then on a custom domain that has both an A and an AAAA record, and seeing what happens
20:47:11 <Sgeo> This is not an April Fool's Joke. I am leaving to go to college now. Bye for now all
20:47:14 <fizzie> ais523: The great IPv6 experiment would also collect stats like that, I guess, if they ever got it launched. Although it's more about working v6.
20:47:22 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving").
20:47:23 <ehird> 20:46 AnMaster: fizzie, sixxs has ipv6 to ipv4 proxy as well
20:47:25 <ehird> uh, that's what I'm using
20:47:36 <fizzie> ehird: No, the other way around.
20:47:37 <ais523> fizzie: well, the Wikpiedia works out percentage broken + percentage v4 + percentage v6
20:47:40 <ais523> I can't remember what hte results were
20:47:59 <ehird> how's linux's ipv6 support
20:48:11 <ehird> os x's is pervasive (i.e., system-wide)
20:48:15 <AnMaster> ehird, works but a pain to configure correctly in my experience
20:48:25 <AnMaster> but that may be due to using tunnel
20:48:29 <fizzie> Well, around here my ISP does native IPv6, and it doesn't need any sort of configuration.
20:48:35 <AnMaster> and trying to share a subnet with rest of network
20:48:37 <fizzie> Since the stateless autoconfig is built-in.
20:49:00 <AnMaster> ehird, freebsd's network handling seems easier to get working correctly in general in my experience.
20:49:06 <fizzie> I did have a manually configured SixXS tunnel, with a subnet shared to my LAN, and there were not really any problems. Although it wasn't quite trivial to configure, no.
20:49:15 <AnMaster> the linux one is probably more flexible though
20:49:31 <AnMaster> (which means it is harder to use as well)
20:49:56 <AnMaster> fizzie, static one or dynamic?
20:50:02 <AnMaster> I need the latter due to dynamic IP
20:50:18 <fizzie> Static one. I have no experience with their dynamic stuffery.
20:50:31 <AnMaster> ais523, what was the url now again?
20:50:45 <ais523> http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:51:29 <fizzie> AnMaster: "You currently have 1.390 ISK." That stuff adds up fast.
20:51:45 <AnMaster> haven't checked mine for some time
20:53:20 <fizzie> ehird: They have this credit system; you get credits for keeping your tunnel configured properly, and some operations (like changing the endpoint IP if it's a static one, or creating new subnets) costs credits.
20:53:27 <fizzie> Too bad you can't convert them to real money. :/
20:53:34 <ehird> How utterly retarded.
20:53:58 <fizzie> I think it's quite funney, actually. I'm not sure about sensible, but funney.
20:54:09 <ehird> Funn_e_y with an y.
20:54:27 <fizzie> "Tunnel endpoint 2001:14b8:100:17::2 pinged for 71 weeks" seems to be the last in my log, then (in 2008-09) I disabled it since I moved to this native-v6 place.
20:54:39 <AnMaster> $ advdef -z4 ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:54:40 <AnMaster> 866737 828925 95% ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:54:58 <ais523> AnMaster: what does that mean?
20:55:21 <ehird> fizzie: is finland an good.
20:55:31 <AnMaster> ais523, it recompresses more efficiently, a better (but slower) implementation of gzip
20:55:44 <AnMaster> or rather of deflate or whatever the actual compression method is called
20:55:47 <ais523> I have a .pax.lzma version that's rather smaller
20:55:51 <ais523> but nobody could read it
20:56:22 <AnMaster> ais523, there is an advpng that does the same on the datastream in png images. Also optipng and pngout compresses well
20:56:29 <AnMaster> iirc there is some WP: page on it
20:56:37 <AnMaster> "how to correctly preprocess png before uploading"
20:58:18 <AnMaster> http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
20:58:26 -!- the_uncanonical_ has joined.
20:58:44 -!- the_uncanonical_ has changed nick to ehirdbuntu.
20:58:46 <fizzie> AnMaster: "7z -tgzip -mx=9" creates a 826520-byte .gz file for that .pax. So it's even smaller.
20:59:02 <AnMaster> fizzie, mhm, that's interesting.
20:59:06 <ehirdbuntu> Hrm. 3d accel isn't working. What's a shame.
20:59:38 <ehirdbuntu> AnMaster: VirtualFake "Maxi-Emulate" 2000
20:59:48 <ehirdbuntu> i.e. none; just 3d accel enabled in Parallels.
21:00:00 -!- tombom has joined.
21:00:12 <AnMaster> ehirdbuntu, you did it native before iirc, when you complained about fans
21:00:42 <fizzie> They all pale before the perfection that is ehirdbuntu, obviously.
21:01:08 <fizzie> I was a bit surprised that not all of [a-z]u?buntu names were in use.
21:01:30 <ehirdbuntu> For my next trick, I will install Perl in this VM.
21:02:59 <AnMaster> ais523, so what did you think about it?
21:03:00 <ehirdbuntu> wonder if 3d accel can be made to worky-work
21:03:13 <AnMaster> http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz
21:03:19 <ais523> ah, pretty much perfect
21:03:28 <AnMaster> also the directory index at http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/
21:03:48 <ehirdbuntu> if you don't like its colours you are mentally ill
21:04:00 <AnMaster> ehirdbuntu, yes agreed, perfect for when you need really really light weight
21:04:24 <AnMaster> it is institution green isn't it?
21:05:40 <ehirdbuntu> Yeah, same on OS X, except its is horribly out of date.
21:05:48 <ehirdbuntu> $ perl --version This is perl, v5.10.0 built for i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
21:06:00 <ais523> incidentally, you don't have to use CPAN to get the more common perl modules
21:06:04 <ais523> as many of them have been ported to apt
21:06:07 <AnMaster> lepton /usr/www/data/htdocs $ perl --version
21:06:07 <AnMaster> This is perl, v5.10.0 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi
21:06:08 <ehirdbuntu> ais523: I'd rather keep it all in one place ...
21:06:28 <AnMaster> it runs x86_64 arch actually (yes I have that now, didn't back when I made ick package)
21:06:54 <AnMaster> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep 'model name'
21:06:54 <AnMaster> model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354
21:06:54 <AnMaster> model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354
21:06:54 <AnMaster> model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354
21:06:54 <AnMaster> model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354
21:07:42 <fizzie> AnMaster: Closest name for #99cc99 I can find in my rgb.txt is DarkSeaGreen3, which is #9bcd9b.
21:08:02 <ehirdbuntu> http://www.google.com/mobile/default/brainsearch.html
21:08:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, that rgb.txt... what is it based on?
21:08:37 <fizzie> AnMaster: I'm guessing a random collection of sources, very unofficial.
21:09:58 <fizzie> Brain Search sort-of reminds one of the very early MentalPlexβ’ technology: http://www.google.com/mentalplex/
21:10:25 <ehird> thx for freezing my browser trying to install a plugin
21:11:05 <AnMaster> ehird, never happened to me ;P (because I don't use plugins yeah :D)
21:11:09 <fizzie> AnMaster: Maybe IPv6 over Social Networks: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5514.txt -- I didn't really read it, it's just that the name sounds ludicruous enough.
21:11:30 <ehird> With IPv6 over Social Network (IPoSN):
21:11:30 <ehird> o Every user is a router with at least one loopback interface;
21:11:31 <ehird> o Every friend or connection between users will be used as a point-
21:12:04 -!- ehirdbuntu has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
21:12:12 <fizzie> "A latency of several hours has an impact on the transport protocols. UDP SHOULD be used, and TCP SHOULD NOT be used."
21:12:16 -!- kar8nga has joined.
21:13:58 <ehird> It was better in virtualbox
21:15:44 <AnMaster> fizzie, why loopback? Am I just too tired or is it part of the joke?
21:19:27 <fizzie> The loopback interface is used for the user ID address, since it can't really be assigned to any of the point-to-point links between friends either.
21:20:57 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMm_DrHYCD0&feature=related
21:21:19 <fizzie> There's a small joke there, in that their suggested /64 prefix for IPoSN node addresses (for a single social networking app) is 2001:db8:face:b00c::/64; it is not too hard to think which application would use that one.
21:21:52 -!- jix has quit ("...").
21:24:01 <fizzie> I wonder if that mentioned facebook app -- http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb/ -- actually does something. I don't have an account there.
21:24:49 <AnMaster> fizzie, what would db8 mean? Or is it just random?
21:28:37 <fizzie> AnMaster: It's "the IPv6 documentation prefix", meant for example use, a bit like example.com.
21:28:40 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
21:28:42 <fizzie> http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/ipv6-documentation-prefix-faq.html
21:29:05 <AnMaster> or why was it copied into irc client at all
21:29:16 <fizzie> Part of the 2001:0c00::/23 block allocated to APNIC. Their WHOIS server doesn't mention it, had to google a bit.
21:30:34 -!- olsner has joined.
21:30:54 <AnMaster> what does the initial 2001 mean btw?
21:31:47 <fizzie> 2000::/3 is the "global unicast" (read: "normal address) range, just about anything fits in there.
21:32:15 <AnMaster> my ipv6 vps that now hosts ick starts with that
21:32:16 <fizzie> Deewiant: That's just 2001:0000::/32.
21:32:36 <Deewiant> fizzie: Oh, darn, I thought it was the whole thing.
21:32:45 <Deewiant> But upon reflection, that'd have been stupid. :-P
21:33:01 <fizzie> The whole 2002::/16 block is for 6to4 tunneling, though.
21:33:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:34:53 * ais523 does the C-INTERCAL release announcement
21:35:02 <fizzie> Looking at IANA's list, it seems that they mostly ran out of space in 2001::/16, and since 2002::/16 was for 6to4, they decided to delegate in a bit larger blocks, giving stuff starting from 2400 to APNIC, 2600 to ARIN, 2800 to LACNIC, 2a00 to RIPE and 2c00 to AfriNIC.
21:35:16 <ais523> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal
21:36:01 <fizzie> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-unicast-address-assignments
21:38:18 <fizzie> 6bone used to use addresses starting with 3ffe:, which is almost at the end of the 2000::/3 global-unicast range.
21:42:05 <AnMaster> doesn't a single /64 have more ips than ipv4 does in total anyway?
21:42:19 <AnMaster> how can they possibly run out of space yet?
21:42:45 <ais523> presumably they were giving away bigger chunks than normal
21:42:48 <fizzie> Well, ran out of space in the 2001::/16 block. That's only 5192296858534827628530496329220096 addresses, you have to cut them some slack.
21:43:08 <ais523> they're hardly going to give out a measly /128 to people who ask, when they could have a /96 or whatever instead, are they?
21:43:15 <fizzie> You can't allocate anyone anything less than /64 in any sensible way, so...
21:43:21 <AnMaster> ais523, well that turned out to have been a bad idea for ipv4, I mean IBM had it's own /8 and such...
21:43:41 <AnMaster> so why the same mistake again for ipv6...
21:44:28 <ais523> because people never learn from history
21:45:22 <fizzie> Also: It's not like they're allocating to random companies; the point is that since there are enough bits in there, you can allocate to a huge ISP a /32 or whatever, so that you can use that in the core routing tables, and you don't have to explicitly list all the billion tiny /64 blocks there.
21:45:36 <AnMaster> any bets for when ipv7 or ipv8 is introduced to solve this?
21:45:56 <ais523> it'll be standardised in 2015, but not used until 2042
21:46:03 <fizzie> Eh, CADIE'll solve the addressing issues for us anyway.
21:47:13 <fizzie> Anyway, here's the rationale for large blocks, quoted from wikipedia: "Rather, the longer addresses allow a better, systematic, hierarchical allocation of addresses and efficient route aggregation. With IPv4, complex Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) techniques were developed to make the best use of the small address space. Renumbering an existing network for a new connectivity provider with different routing prefixes is a major effort with IPv4, as discu
21:47:13 <fizzie> ssed in RFC 2071 and RFC 2072. With IPv6, however, changing the prefix in a few routers can renumber an entire network ad hoc, because the host identifiers (the least-significant 64 bits of an address) are decoupled from the subnet identifiers and the network provider's routing prefix."
21:47:22 <AnMaster> ais523, I'd say standard in 2017 or 2018 possibly. Used for cool hostmasks on irc around 2042, used for other stuff around 2078
21:47:58 -!- nooga has quit (Connection reset by peer).
21:48:18 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit").
21:50:00 <fizzie> The hugeness of the IPv4 internet routing tables is a real problem, I understand. http://bgp.potaroo.net/ has a plot; currently a core-y router might have to keep that 300k-entry routing table in memory to know where things should go.
21:50:42 <fizzie> It would certainly help if you could say things like "this /32 contains all the gazillion IPs in the americas, you can stick all those packets to this pipe".
21:50:46 <AnMaster> that ipv6 over facebook wouldn't be impossible to implement I suspect. (<fizzie> I wonder if that mentioned facebook app -- http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb/ -- actually does something. I don't have an account there.) <-- same, did anyone answer
21:52:25 <fizzie> Deewiant: I'unno, there's a 32-bit prefix, few bits for the length, then whatever is needed for the actual system to know what to do with it. It's still quite a large list to search for every packet in the tubes.
21:52:47 <Deewiant> Well, you wouldn't store it as a list, would you. :-P
21:52:57 <fizzie> Done with hardware, obviously, but that just means it costs more to get bigger memories.
21:53:20 <Deewiant> My guess is it's some kind of trie or a perfect hash table
21:53:40 <fizzie> My guess is it's some kind of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_memory
21:53:49 <fizzie> No-one does routing in software with those speeds, I would assume.
21:54:01 <fizzie> Not my department, though.
21:54:54 <fizzie> Certainly software-based routers don't use a plain old list either.
21:55:23 <ais523> <kerlo> Please relay all messages containing /#esoteric: to #esoteric and all messages containing /#irp: to #irp.
21:58:17 <fizzie> Deewiant: Quick peek at Linux suggests there's some sort of "recently-used" hash table for addresses, and a ip_route_output_slow fallback which uses fib_lookup; there's a kernel config option as to what that uses, FIB_HASH is the default ("very proven and good enough", says help) but there's also FIB_TRIE, which uses "new experimental LC-trie as FIB lookup algorithm".
21:58:26 <fizzie> Deewiant: The trie one is supposed to be faster for large tables.
21:58:42 <fizzie> Refers to http://www.nada.kth.se/~snilsson/public/papers/dyntrie2/
21:58:48 <AnMaster> has anyone tried creating a paradox in IRP?
21:59:57 <AnMaster> FireFly, http://bgp.potaroo.net/ <-- what do the colors represent?
22:00:39 <fizzie> My guess would be different routers' view of the routing table. But that's just a guess. Maybe the plot is documented somewhere.
22:01:17 <fizzie> Heh, 297990 entries in the v4 routing table, 1776 in v6. It's a "bit" smaller.
22:01:40 <ais523> almost 2.3 orders of magnitude
22:01:59 -!- kar8nga has quit (Success).
22:07:53 -!- mmorrow has joined.
22:07:58 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
22:08:29 <ais523> and welcome, I don't think I've seen you here before
22:08:33 <ais523> although I've seen you elsewhere
22:08:48 <Gracenotes> yes, on Wikipedia namely. I've come across your edits on the Esoteric Wiki
22:09:04 <ais523> mostly clearing up spam nowadays, it seems
22:09:21 <Gracenotes> Didn't know there was an IRC channel though. It was mentioned in #haskell in the context of a Brainfuck interpreter.
22:09:31 <ais523> this is probably the most active esolang forum anywhere
22:09:37 <ais523> although it often goes offtopic
22:09:57 <lament> of course the guy actually writing the compiler didn't actually join :)
22:10:12 <lament> he might invent another Ook, i'm afraid
22:10:20 <ais523> well, sometimes it seems there are more Brainfuck interpreters than programmers
22:10:29 <ais523> and more Brainfuck derivatives than interesting languages
22:10:34 <Gracenotes> heh, yeah. I sort of invented an Esoteric language once, although it was rather simple. Just a stack-oriented simple lambda calculus interpreter
22:10:46 <ais523> well, that's more interesting than most invented esolangs
22:11:00 -!- kadaver has joined.
22:11:24 <ais523> ^bf ,[.,]!Hi, kadaver!
22:11:33 <Gracenotes> >f >x >x @ @ #x >f >x >x @ @ #x @ #f >a ?0 >b >f >a -1 @ >b +1 @ ? #b #a #f @ 5 @ 7 @
22:11:56 <Gracenotes> the first part is the Y-combinator; after that is a Peano addition
22:11:57 <ais523> reverse-polish, @ = apply?
22:11:58 <lament> it's even self-documenting!
22:12:50 <kadaver> lol hi! friendly channeφ ?
22:13:03 <Gracenotes> # makes a lambda abstraction, > recalls a variable (throwing an error if not in scope), ? is a simple condition operator, @ is apply
22:13:07 <kadaver> i wrote a bf interpreter in haskell
22:13:14 <ais523> we even chatted to a troll friendlily for about half an hour, I think he gave up after that
22:13:47 <ais523> hmm... seems we don't have an unlambda bot in here at the moment
22:13:53 <ais523> ehird: if you're online, bring unlambda in here?
22:14:15 <ais523> Gracenotes: like lambda calculus, but without the lambdas
22:14:22 <ais523> it nevertheless manages to be turing-complete
22:14:36 <ais523> with a few other things added to make it more confusing
22:14:41 <Gracenotes> nonetheless it manages to make my brain hurt :)
22:14:49 <ais523> oh, it makes everyone's brain hurt
22:15:02 <ais523> interestingly, Unlambda is rather easy to write as esolangs go, but almost impossible to read or edit
22:15:18 <Gracenotes> write meaning programs in it, or an interpreter?
22:15:25 <kadaver> ais523: i guess thats the most effective way to treat trolls
22:15:26 <ais523> interpreters are a lot harder
22:15:33 -!- swistakm has quit ("Lost terminal").
22:15:47 <Gracenotes> I am familiar with SKI calculus in the form of the environment monad, though
22:16:06 -!- DH__ has joined.
22:16:33 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp
22:16:38 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
22:16:44 <ais523> I feel like some Wikipedian nonsense, fungot
22:16:45 <fungot> ais523: how many km long is the line? special:contributions/ fnord ( user fnord) 13:24, 27 june 2008 ( utc
22:16:48 -!- DH__ has left (?).
22:16:54 <ais523> fungot's written in Befunge
22:16:55 <fungot> ais523: thats a fairly vague definition of " not serious" ( ' spear') plus the latin and germanic " man" means " land of meadows" from the name of james d. watson? user:landerman56landerman56 ( user talk:landerman56talk) 00:14, 16 december 2007 ( utc)
22:17:12 <ais523> it also does Underload and Brainfuck
22:18:22 <ais523> it's basically impossible to compile
22:18:36 <ais523> although someone (fizzie IRC)'s working on a JITting funge interpreter
22:18:42 <ais523> and some impls, like cfunge, are incredibly fast
22:19:17 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
22:19:20 <Gracenotes> yeah. it is just a multidimensional array, in a sense
22:19:40 <ais523> funge-space is too big to be able to hold all in memory at once, though
22:19:47 <ais523> or indeed, all on disk without compression
22:19:53 <ais523> which makes an interesting challenge to interpret
22:20:06 <ais523> Deewiant here is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing
22:20:08 <Gracenotes> does it extend infinitely? I thought it just looped.
22:20:24 <ais523> but Befunge-98 extends to INT_MIN and INT_MAX
22:20:29 <fungot> AnMaster: one reason the claim beggars the imagination is that one has some idea of what nationalism is. no wonder zoe was so fed up of dealing with bensozia in myth is carlo fnord ' ' if that is not used commonly and carries with it an implication of involvement in fnord advocacy like fnord, if that's some published author's view, then it must be made extremely clear by re-writing the introduction and then his or her unique de
22:20:32 <ais523> which is rather large, especially on a 64-bit system
22:20:48 <ais523> AnMaster: IIRC, it's been run on cfunge and RC/funge, I'm not sure which it's using atm
22:20:56 <fizzie> ais523: It's been cfunge lately, yes.
22:20:57 <ais523> well, yes, so it can be infinite
22:21:04 <ais523> but it nonetheless loops around the edges
22:21:04 <AnMaster> and yes I know it has been on rc/funge before
22:21:15 <AnMaster> mostly because I hadn't done SOCK in cfunge yet then
22:21:36 <AnMaster> Gracenotes, ah no, not exactly in b98
22:21:49 <ais523> oh dear, befunge-98 wrapping is rather complex
22:21:52 <fizzie> And I've been doing a bit of jitfunge, yes. It'll probably never be a very complete interpreter, though, I don't think I'll support threads any time soon.
22:22:01 <Deewiant> Awwwwwwwwwwwwh, GHC 6.10.2 doesn't update the extralibs, I'll have to wait for 6.12 :-/
22:22:03 <ais523> it's only like a torus if you're going in a compass direction at the time
22:22:11 <Gracenotes> yeah. I've been meaning to make an interpreter, but my understanding was that it looped like a Torus with set sizes.
22:22:21 -!- Sgeo[College] has joined.
22:22:23 <ais523> the actual looping's a sort of virtual bounce
22:22:33 <ais523> if it reaches the edge, the IP bounces but turns invisible, in a sense
22:22:41 <ais523> so it doesn't execute anything until it gets back to the opposite edge
22:22:45 <Sgeo[College]> If MSSQLServer seems to be running on computers in the computer lab, is that a sign of somethign malicious?
22:22:51 <ais523> then it starts executing again, after rebouncing
22:22:54 <ais523> Sgeo[College]: no, lots of programs use it
22:23:07 <ais523> that's the same effect as a torus when going orthogonally
22:23:08 <Gracenotes> ais523: if it's step-wise, why is the lack of execution important?
22:23:20 <ais523> Gracenotes: well, say you have abc as your program
22:23:37 <Deewiant> Gracenotes: If you have multiple threads it matters.
22:23:44 <ais523> it runs abc, then reaches the right-hand end of the program, then doesn't execute anything when going back to the left, then starts executing again from the left
22:23:52 <ais523> also, it does all this in zero time even if fungespace is infinitely larg
22:24:06 <Sgeo[College]> Can someone check if there's any CADIE stuff on GOOG-411?
22:24:34 <Gracenotes> oh, multithreaded Befunge. So it's like Python's GIL then?
22:24:48 <ais523> Befunge-98 is a pretty advanced standard, really
22:24:55 <ais523> it's a major update over befunge-93
22:25:04 <Deewiant> Threads run in a predefined order, one at a time. They're not really parallel.
22:25:12 <fizzie> The wrapping is explained rather well (as far as writing an implementation is considered, and unless you bother about corner cases like jumping over the edge) in the non-appendix part of the Funge-98 spec.
22:25:32 <fizzie> "When the IP attempts to travel into the whitespace between the code and the end of known, addressable space, it backtracks. This means that its delta is reversed and it ignores (skips over without executing) all instructions. Travelling thus, it finds the other 'edge' of code when there is again nothing but whitespace in front of it. It is reflected 180 degrees once more (to restore its original delta) and stops ignoring instructions. Execution then resumes
22:25:32 <fizzie> normally - the wrap is complete."
22:25:47 <ais523> well, jumping over the edge isn't the same in all implementations anyway
22:25:59 <ais523> so no sane programmer relies on it
22:26:28 <ais523> well, some esolangers are saner than others
22:26:59 <fizzie> Also some are just saner in other ways, even though the total sum of sanity might not be larger.
22:27:25 <fungot> Deewiant: ' ' ' fnord" by another group on methylene blue fnord amyloid fnord by promoting fnord, related to alzheimer's disease. paper was published earlier than taylor's, why is fnord
22:27:49 <fizzie> AnMaster's speed-obsession, for example, is a valid excuse for other more or less sane behaviour. In my opinion, anyway.
22:28:06 <ais523> AnMaster seems worryingly sane for a #esoteric-er
22:28:23 <ais523> and I don't think the speed obsession is a sign of insanity, it's more he's just aiming for an unusual project goal
22:28:37 <Gracenotes> fizzie: how does Befunge know where the other edge of code is?
22:29:03 <ais523> interpreters keep track of the outermost values of fungespace that contain non-spaces
22:29:12 <ais523> and optimise infinity down to finite values that way
22:29:21 <fizzie> Or the outermost values that have ever contained non-spaces, more likely. :p
22:29:33 <Deewiant> Unless you're running slowdown.b98, which I guess cfunge still can't handle?
22:29:52 <Gracenotes> I suppose one could have special markers?
22:30:02 <ais523> it's generally done in memory
22:30:09 <ais523> Deewiant: I thought cfunge could handle it, it was jsut slow
22:30:38 <Deewiant> ais523: Well sure, CCBI as well, but iterating one step a time through around 2^64-1 or even 2^32-1 values takes time
22:30:43 <ehird> 22:13 ais523: we even chatted to a troll friendlily for about half an hour, I think he gave up after that
22:30:47 <Deewiant> So I don't really call that handling it
22:30:56 <ais523> ehird: that person who kept saying one thing, quitting, and changing nick
22:31:07 <ehird> you mean me? ;-) :P
22:31:11 <ais523> admittedly, he wasn't in the channel when we were talking to him, but he was obviously logreading
22:31:13 <ais523> ehird: no, someone else
22:31:14 <Gracenotes> so, uh, not a very effective troll I take it
22:31:15 <fizzie> I've seen (and written) befunge-93 implementations that mark the edges of the funge-space with specific codes (like 254, 253, 252, 251) that check the x/y coordinate and then wrap if necessary; that lets you just move your IP around without having to check for wrapping. That kind of thing won't work in funge-98, of course.
22:31:16 <ehird> ais523: We were rather un-friendly, I recall.
22:31:18 <ais523> you started doing that a bit later
22:31:25 <ehird> No, I've done that forever.
22:31:31 <Deewiant> Gracenotes: iki.fi/deewiant/files/befunge/programs/slowdown.b98, something I wrote to slow down interpreters
22:31:33 <ais523> kadaver: I'm not sure, but C++ lambdas aren't proper lambdas anyway
22:31:41 * ehird tries http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb
22:31:46 <ehird> Router operator: Elliott Hird
22:31:46 <fizzie> Does "C++ lambdas" mean the boost lambda, or what?
22:31:47 <ehird> Loopback0 address: 2001:db8:face:b00c::2024:ff0c/128
22:31:49 <ehird> Friend interfaces: 1
22:31:50 <ais523> and various bits of C++ almost qualify as esolangs by now anyway
22:31:51 <ehird> Connection proposals from friends: 0
22:31:53 <ehird> Your router does not have a default route yet... So, you cannot send traffic to the real IPv6 Internet. Please connect to more friends and wait until RIPng has converged.
22:31:56 <ehird> wow, I think it might acutally work
22:32:05 <ais523> ehird: IP over facebook?
22:32:15 <Deewiant> Gracenotes: It's relatively clear for Befunge, IMO. You should take a look at Mycology ;-)
22:32:19 <ais523> classic, and no technical reason why it couldn't work
22:32:30 <ehird> ais523: it's an april 1st one
22:32:31 <ais523> the april fools RFCs do usually work, after all
22:32:34 <ehird> it's for any social network
22:32:35 <ais523> apart from that evil bit one
22:32:44 <ehird> ais523: hey, that one worked!
22:32:46 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
22:32:46 <ais523> they wouldn't be nearly as funny if they didn't work, after all
22:32:49 <ehird> it got put in freebsd trunk, ais523
22:32:53 <fizzie> Gracenotes: Here's fungot's sources: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt
22:32:53 <fungot> fizzie: i'd say that would be obvious... the furs never reached istanbul... you were asking if something called " parameters" that might be
22:32:56 <AnMaster> <ais523> and I don't think the speed obsession is a sign of insanity, it's more he's just aiming for an unusual project goal <-- indeed
22:32:58 <Deewiant> Gracenotes: iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/mycology.html, the reason I'm the world expert on Befunge conformance testing
22:33:03 <fungot> http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt
22:33:08 <fizzie> (The wikipedia style is a bit too punctuation-rich for my tastes.)
22:33:24 <Sgeo[College]> Hm, is a transcript of CADIE's Triumph video available somewhere? I didn't bring my headphones to school :)
22:33:47 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> Unless you're running slowdown.b98, which I guess cfunge still can't handle? <-- more important matters showed up recently
22:34:01 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot").
22:34:02 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Alright, just wondering
22:34:03 <ehird> Sgeo[College]: triumph?
22:34:29 <Gracenotes> no, the default text editor doesn't like the encoding
22:34:51 <fizzie> Compared to Mycology, fungot's really quite readable and sane.
22:34:51 <fungot> fizzie: but they ask for pieces of papers. all but 1 register needs a temporary? when?
22:34:53 <Deewiant> Or really, it doesn't matter, to be honest.
22:34:58 <Sgeo[College]> Also, CADIE's text on the images.google.com page changed
22:35:02 <Deewiant> It's arbitrary as long as it's ASCII.
22:35:07 <ais523> fizzie: well, Mycology's a test-suite, they're /meant/ to be insane
22:35:12 <ais523> or they wouldn't be testing properly
22:35:17 <Deewiant> Although I think UTF-8 might break at some point.
22:35:39 <Deewiant> Gracenotes: There's a null byte at one point which might explain your problems.
22:35:40 <ais523> I welcome our ostensibly-written-in-INTERCAL overlords
22:36:00 <Deewiant> ais523: Well, they could still be written legibly. :-P
22:36:13 <AnMaster> <ais523> the april fools RFCs do usually work, after all <-- IMPS? Well depends on the value of "works".
22:36:14 <Deewiant> I had to fix a bug related to 1y a week ago
22:36:22 <Gracenotes> Deewiant: just seems like a lot going on
22:36:29 <ais523> AnMaster: the pigeon one definitely works, there have been tests
22:36:53 <Deewiant> In order to do it, I had to x to a temporary location from which I could x out to a slightly more sparse area where I had room to actually do something
22:37:11 <lament> i think wikipedia has the best april fools
22:37:22 <ais523> a huge amount of effort goes into that
22:37:29 <AnMaster> Gracenotes, the encoding thing: litteral embedded null byte
22:37:32 <ais523> Gracenotes: oh, befunge strings are normally written backwards
22:37:36 <AnMaster> to check interpreters doesn't choke on it
22:37:37 <ais523> so they print out forwards
22:37:52 <AnMaster> (cfunge of course doesn't, my editor does though)
22:38:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, did any interpreter ever choke on it?
22:38:10 <lament> Did you know ... that Adam de Stratton was arrested for the possession of toenail clippings (example pictured)?
22:38:45 -!- MizardX has joined.
22:38:47 <Deewiant> But I have to get up in around 6 hours so I'm going to bed now
22:38:58 <ais523> I love the way they mixed in a genuine UK news story
22:39:07 <ais523> ofc, all the others are genuine too, but mostly rewritten to look misleading
22:39:36 <ehird> New cadie blog post
22:40:18 <ehird> It's like a soap opera for ai nerds.
22:40:30 <AnMaster> ais523, about ick, what does http://code.google.com/p/cadie/source/browse/trunk/CADIE.I actually do?
22:40:38 <ehird> AnMaster: prints a constant string
22:40:42 <ais523> AnMaster: you could run it and find out
22:40:47 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
22:40:57 <ais523> but I'm disappointed that not enough people here realise it prints out a constant string, that should be obvious
22:41:06 <ais523> the actual string itself is rather harder to work out
22:41:22 <AnMaster> a fool related string I assume
22:41:34 <Gracenotes> what makes INTERCAL so (apparently) difficult?
22:42:03 <AnMaster> ais523, didn't you say it didn't run in ick?
22:42:14 <ais523> it's clc it didn't run in, I ported her
22:42:22 <ais523> Gracenotes: lack of usual arithmetic and flow control operators
22:42:45 <Gracenotes> ah. so how are conditions generally handler.
22:42:47 <lament> Gracenotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:INTERCAL_Circuitous_Diagram.svg
22:43:04 <ais523> Gracenotes: in INTERCAL-72, the usual trick is to do a computed function return
22:43:10 <ais523> you create a wrapper function
22:43:25 <ais523> and return either from it if the condition's true, or the function that called it if the condition's false
22:43:36 <ais523> in INTERCAL, you can return from a function other than the one you're in at the time, which is rather confusing
22:43:50 <ehird> I bet cadie is actually real and we just haven't realisd it yet./
22:44:00 <ais523> well, that can't be genuine source
22:44:07 <ais523> but maybe cadie hid her source
22:44:23 <ehird> ais523: the source says I don't feel like sharing, right?
22:44:31 <ais523> or something like that
22:44:37 <ehird> so presumably the source is a joke by cadie in this cadie-is-real alternate universe
22:45:03 <ais523> in more recent INTERCAL, by the way, computed COME FROM and computed ABSTAIN are the favoured way to do conditional branches
22:45:07 -!- nooga has joined.
22:45:15 <Gracenotes> ah, COME FROM. Nearly as sane as goto.
22:45:32 <ais523> computed COME FROM presents some interesting hurdles for implementors
22:45:37 <ais523> I should know, I maintain C-INTERCAL
22:46:36 <ais523> hmm... what was he like?
22:46:38 <ehird> "Hey I bought it for awhile. It was believable... However the favorited video "bye bye panda" kind of maade me completely doubt the reality ofο»Ώ it. And if AI was real, it would have been all over the news if it was on YouTube. Nice try, Google. "
22:46:42 <ehird> how on earth can you believe that
22:46:48 <ehird> Gracenotes: oh god
22:47:23 <ais523> my C-INTERCAL is technically a fork, but because the original had been discontinued for years it became the de-facto official version
22:47:43 <fizzie> Alan Cox was in Finland in a small meet-thing-thing, but that's the extent to which I've met any Linux-famous people.
22:48:29 <Gracenotes> I once almost met Bjourne, of C++ fame
22:48:44 <fizzie> How did I manage to misread wikipedia's summary "Alan Cox -- is a British computer programmer heavily involved in the development of the Linux kernel --" as something like "Alan Cox -- is a British computer programmer often heavily drunk".
22:48:45 <ehird> Bjourne Stroustrup
22:48:57 <ehird> the C++ was a joke article was written by him
22:49:07 <nooga> i'm in a pub, owning their wifi ap
22:49:08 <Gracenotes> but it was not to be. I totally missed his lecture :\
22:49:23 <ehird> AnMaster: 'has written code in the same file as'?
22:49:25 <ehird> if so, many hundreds.
22:49:54 <AnMaster> ehird, not sure how to define it so it is exclusive enough, yet allows us in #esoteric to get low ones
22:50:19 <ais523> personally, I think CADIE is just Google's attempt to compete with Wolfram Alpha
22:50:27 <ehird> ais523: that thing still exists?
22:50:35 <Sgeo[College]> ais523: did you see images.google.com ? Not the one with unicorns
22:50:41 <ehird> nooga: no shit sherlock!
22:50:45 <ais523> nooga: but she's written in INTERCAL!
22:50:56 -!- nooga has changed nick to cpt_obvious.
22:51:02 <Gracenotes> heh, C/C++/C# in http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/
22:51:12 <ehird> Gracenotes: all of them say that
22:51:18 <ehird> that's the first intercal mention
22:51:23 <ais523> ehird: not that, just the name of the language is silly
22:51:24 <Sgeo[College]> Different languages have slightly different responses
22:51:29 <ehird> ais523: well, yeah
22:51:30 <ais523> those are pretty different langs
22:51:32 <ehird> they're all c-alikes
22:51:42 <Gracenotes> "CADIE is busy working on a new translator that will allow you to use INTERCAL with GWT instead of Java. Check back soon!"
22:51:48 <ehird> ais523: probably copied from google code search; as in, the syntaces are similar so it searches them together
22:52:10 <ais523> well, C-INTERCAL allows linking INTERCAL with C or Befunge code
22:52:35 -!- Sgeo[College] has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
22:54:44 <cpt_obvious> there are no clear docs covering P6 architecture
22:55:39 <ehird> cpt_obvious: wut? ?
22:55:49 <ehird> who where what why when did you come from and wut
22:57:56 * ais523 gives FireFly an anti-swat shielf
22:58:20 <Gracenotes> hrm. are there any good logic esolangs?
22:58:26 <ehird> Gracenotes: prolog :-)
22:58:30 <ais523> what do you mean by "logic esolangs"/
22:58:32 <ehird> so, when does cadie give us brain implants?
22:58:38 <ais523> prolog isn't an esolang, but it's pretty interesting anyway
22:58:41 -!- Sgeo[College] has joined.
22:58:48 <ais523> and not used nearly as much as it should be
22:58:54 <ehird> i am haurmor murster
22:59:05 <Gracenotes> ais523: mainly modeled after Prolog, though.
22:59:07 <ehird> I said it was new 5 minutes ago
22:59:34 <ais523> Gracenotes: I don't know of any declarative esolangs offhand
22:59:35 <Gracenotes> constraint programming, satisfiability, probably with unification/backtracking
22:59:45 <Gracenotes> although that does sound rather esoteric as it is
22:59:49 <ais523> I have a couple but have never got around to writing the specs
23:00:02 <ais523> Proud's basically Prolog with all the restrictions removed, but it's uncomputable
23:00:07 <ehird> this is really elaborate for an april fool's
23:00:15 <ehird> guess google decided to go all out
23:00:16 <Sgeo[College]> I don't see in the log where you mentioned a new post
23:00:18 <ais523> and Cyclexa's a potentially-practical esolang project, but I haven't really got very far with it
23:00:21 <ehird> Sgeo[College]: I do
23:00:30 <ehird> 22:39 ehird: New cadie blog post
23:00:31 <ehird> 22:40 ehird: It's like a soap opera for ai nerds.
23:00:32 <FireFly> Googling for "Cadie" gives me a news result telling me it's an april fools.. Very clever, Google
23:00:33 <ais523> which is based on a cross between regexps and Prolog
23:00:49 <ehird> FireFly: err cadie is an april fools is that what you're saying?
23:00:59 <ais523> one of the reasons that Cyclexa's on hold, by the way, is that Perl are stealing all my ideas :(
23:01:26 <FireFly> I get newspaper hits telling me it is, IMO it'd be better if people didn't get to know it is that easy
23:01:38 <ehird> FireFly: 1. it's blindingly obvious
23:01:44 <ehird> 2. google would never tamper their results like that
23:01:49 <ehird> that's just not the done thing
23:02:26 <ehird> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5897/ yespls
23:02:47 <Sgeo[College]> Cadie is still an ongoing story, though. It's not "Oh, Google did a quick joke, end of story". Knowing that CADIE is an April 1st prank is like knowing that a novel is fiction
23:03:04 <ehird> novels are fictional?
23:03:31 <ais523> cpt_obvious: </AnMaster>
23:03:57 <ais523> AnMaster: you've become a synonym for whooosh
23:04:17 <ehird> since you never do anything but woosh to non-oerjan jokes, AnMaster
23:04:26 <AnMaster> ais523, could you write Proud be written in Feather?
23:04:38 <ais523> no, Proud's uncomputable, Feather is not super-TC
23:04:46 <ais523> although Feather hurts my head, and I don't want my brain to explode right now
23:04:54 <AnMaster> ais523, right. Was just wondering
23:05:19 <ehird> cpt_obvious: unask that question
23:05:24 <ehird> QUICK DAMMIT YOU FOOL
23:05:29 <ais523> err, yes, unasking is probably best for all concerned
23:05:32 <ehird> the answer is mu, cpt_obvious
23:05:33 <ais523> or I'll have to try to answer
23:05:37 <ehird> there, I unasked it for you
23:06:01 <Sgeo[College]> I like to think my code's easier, but I'm less certain that it works
23:06:02 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't have a compulsive disorder about writing down that I laughed about everything.
23:06:05 <ais523> cpt_obvious: I suggest you ask in #feather-lang, I think it's empty atm so it'll be safe to ask
23:06:07 <ais523> let me check, actually
23:06:18 <ehird> AnMaster: err, just try and shift the mocking on to other people badly why don't you
23:06:19 <AnMaster> sometimes I do notice jokes but never mention that :P
23:06:21 <ais523> oh, not quite, ChanServ's in there
23:07:00 <ais523> which is another reason not to explain Feather right now
23:07:01 <ehird> don't tell AnMaster
23:07:02 <AnMaster> ais523, empty? I added it to autojoin now
23:07:12 <ais523> explaining Feather to someone /who is drunk/ probably would cause a fatality
23:07:12 <ehird> ais523: I don't know; alcohol may well improve perception of Feather
23:07:24 <cpt_obvious> i'm here with my boss an we're owning wifi networks and drinking :D
23:07:33 <ehird> although hallucinogens would probably fare better
23:08:08 <ehird> cpt_obvious: feather is like, like, like, a trip, except the drug is time, man
23:08:12 <ehird> and it trips your code, man.
23:08:17 <ehird> Oh, retroactively.
23:08:27 <AnMaster> cpt_obvious, it lets you redefine the language itself, while running
23:08:35 <ais523> AnMaster: that's boring, even Perl can do that
23:08:36 <ehird> many languages have that
23:08:43 <ais523> it lets you redefine what the language /was/ retroactively
23:08:47 <ais523> which is slightly different
23:08:49 <ehird> AnMaster: no, that's totally misrepresenting it
23:08:52 <AnMaster> ais523, I was about to get to that
23:09:00 <ais523> the retroactivity's the whole point
23:09:05 <ais523> seeing as nothing in Feather can ever change
23:09:07 <ais523> cpt_obvious: there aren't any
23:09:11 <ehird> cpt_obvious: /home/ais523/mind
23:09:13 <ais523> at least, I wrote some but they were wrong
23:09:23 <ehird> please don't try and grep it; it's very painful I hear
23:09:43 <AnMaster> ehird, /dev/ais523_mind .. duh
23:09:57 <ehird> AnMaster: err, that's bad hierarchy
23:10:00 <ehird> isn't that right ais523?
23:10:13 <AnMaster> ehird, yes but that is because it is in a real OS
23:10:28 <ais523> ehird: I'm not sure if I'm in a /dev
23:10:34 <cpt_obvious> it's like s/// regexp with some addons to change states while running
23:10:40 <ehird> ais523: I said /home/ais523/mind
23:10:47 <ehird> AnMaster "corrected" it as /dev/ais523_mind, which is silly
23:10:53 <ais523> they're both wrong, clearly
23:11:03 <AnMaster> ehird, real OS have flaws. Weird bits, ideal on the paper ones maybe doesn't. But there are always some dark corners in any actually existing OS
23:11:03 <ais523> you think I keep my mind in a /filesystem/?
23:11:26 <ehird> AnMaster: er, there's nothing stopping you making /home/ais523/mind
23:11:38 <ehird> thinking otherwise is just ignorance
23:11:40 <AnMaster> ais523, no, but there is a block device representing it
23:11:41 <FireFly> Well, since ais523 IS a dev[eloper]
23:11:55 <ais523> technically speaking, I'm an engineer
23:11:57 <AnMaster> ehird, there is. /home mounted nodev
23:12:07 <ehird> AnMaster: /dev mounted nodev
23:12:16 <ehird> WHAT NOW! Oh wait, you set your file system up retardedly so you get retarded results.
23:12:16 <ais523> ehird: haha, you should so do that someday
23:12:27 <ehird> AnMaster: who cares
23:12:29 <ehird> it's SECURE like that!
23:12:37 <ais523> I don't think there's any technical reason why you can't boot with /dev set nodev
23:12:38 <ehird> Doing nothing is EXTRA SPEEDY.
23:12:43 <ehird> If you need more you could BENCHMARK IT
23:12:52 <AnMaster> ais523, /dev/console and /dev/null are needed at least for some core system parts. udev, init and a few other ones iirc
23:12:54 <ais523> although it would depend on how your init worked
23:13:04 <ais523> AnMaster: init can be very simple
23:13:16 <ais523> what you mean is /your/ system wouldn't boot, because your init is trying to be too clever
23:13:20 <AnMaster> ais523, yeah but I meant on a GNU/Linux system
23:13:40 <ais523> but even so, you can get inits that don't care about /dev
23:13:41 <AnMaster> hm /dev/zero not /dev/null iirc
23:13:53 <ais523> you could just set init to ash or something on the bootlodaer, for instance
23:14:13 <cpt_obvious> for a string that compiles to the base language in a previously defined way
23:14:16 <kadaver> whats thats esotericlanguage with all the parenthesises called?
23:14:19 <AnMaster> ais523, it would want some tty I think
23:14:22 <ais523> Sgeo[College]: one of the simplest shs around atm
23:14:27 <cpt_obvious> and then in that language you can do the same etc etc
23:14:28 <ais523> AnMaster: you can have a tty without having /dev available
23:14:28 <AnMaster> ais523, not sure how that would be handled..
23:14:35 <kadaver> (map (lambda (x)(* x x)) '(1 2 3))
23:14:40 <ais523> Sgeo[College]: EPERM, luckily
23:14:44 <AnMaster> ais523, I guess kernel hands it over as an open fd?
23:14:58 <AnMaster> actually invoking init would be weird I guess
23:15:04 <ais523> although it's probably just the serial connection
23:15:19 <kadaver> write a kernel in brainfuck,then you have secured maintenance work for the rest of your life=the wya IT works
23:15:21 <ais523> and the kernel invokes init by setting up memory as if it was a userspace process, then simulating fork/exec
23:15:30 <Sgeo[College]> If EPERM means read-only, did you just say you never learn?
23:15:38 <ais523> no, EPERM means you aren't allowed to do that
23:15:38 <kadaver> is writing a toy-kernel hard?
23:15:44 <ais523> so it's read-only for you, but isn't for me
23:15:49 <ais523> kadaver: not particularly
23:16:04 <ais523> in UNIX, how readable or writable a file is depends on who's reading or writing
23:16:07 <ais523> the same in Windows, actually
23:16:14 <ais523> Sgeo[College]: you aren't in the admin group for my mind
23:16:17 <ais523> in fact, I don't think I am
23:17:05 -!- Judofyr_ has joined.
23:18:37 <kadaver> ais523: how many LOC can you get away with doing something minimal? I heard the initial linux kernel linus released was just 10K loc
23:18:47 <ais523> depends on how minimal
23:19:00 <ais523> if all you want with your kernel is to run some minimal esolangs, you can do it well under a KB of machine code
23:19:14 <ais523> asiekierka isn't here, but IIRC he was working on something like that
23:19:18 <ais523> a live-esolang floppy disk
23:20:49 <Gracenotes> heh, it seems there's no working IRP interpreter currently
23:20:52 <cpt_obvious> multiprocess kernel with a memory manager, own filesystem and multiple text terminal
23:21:00 <kadaver> ais523: well i guess it depends on how you define kernel. what would en esolang kernel need to be able to do?
23:21:08 <ais523> Gracenotes: #IRP is actually surprisingly active today
23:21:15 <ais523> normally it idles for weeks at a time
23:21:26 <ais523> and some esolangs have very small interps
23:21:39 <ais523> Gracenotes: it seems some teacher's set a university project on IRP
23:21:45 <ais523> and all the students have been coming in there asking for help
23:21:55 <ais523> weirder things have happened, I suppose...
23:22:22 <ais523> it isn't logged, unfortunately
23:22:40 <ais523> but you saw the conversation with DH__, at least
23:23:08 -!- neldoreth has joined.
23:23:13 <ais523> hmm... seems idle again
23:23:24 <ais523> lecture's probably over
23:23:50 <kadaver> multiple text terminal = multiple windows? any graphics?
23:33:57 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:35:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:40:42 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
23:43:41 <ehird> ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl
23:44:07 <ais523> that's been there for a while
23:44:12 <ais523> I'm not sure what to do about it
23:44:17 <ais523> the article's also confusing, too
23:44:26 <ehird> ais523: i was referring to the last section
23:44:50 <ais523> that can be golfed by at least three characters
23:45:02 <ais523> probably four, actually
23:45:12 <ehird> apart from removing the space
23:45:33 <ehird> when all you can shave off is whitespace and a ;, it's not cool any more.
23:45:44 <ehird> leaving them in is saying "I'm so good at golfing, I'm just going to leave this low-hanging fruit."
23:46:18 <lament> low-hanging fruit is generally the tastiest
23:46:36 <ais523> I was going to change the \n to a literal newline
23:46:40 <ais523> that's what saves the last character
23:47:50 <ehird> #!/usr/bin/env perl
23:47:50 <ehird> # Released under the MIT license.
23:47:53 <ehird> # TODO: add POD docs
23:48:01 <ehird> my $code = join("\n", @lines);
23:48:03 <fizzie> Uh... why is the newline even needed there? I thought that if you do <> in a list context, the elements returned still contain any newlines present.
23:48:07 <ehird> damn, my whitespace was tarnished
23:48:09 <ehird> #!/usr/bin/env perl
23:48:13 <ehird> # Released under the MIT license.
23:48:17 <ehird> # TODO: add POD docs
23:48:29 <ehird> my $code = join("\n", @lines);
23:48:39 <ehird> fizzie: eval isn't in a list context is it
23:48:41 <ehird> eval join <> just reads one line
23:48:43 <ehird> since the first argument is the sep
23:48:48 <ais523> fizzie: oh, you're right
23:48:57 <fizzie> Huh? join <> definitely uses <> in a list context.
23:49:05 <ehird> fizzie: perl -e'eval join <>'
23:49:07 <ehird> only reads one line
23:49:10 <ehird> I know this because _i tested it_
23:49:17 <fizzie> You don't need a newline.
23:49:38 <ehird> great, wiki formatting fucked it
23:50:03 <ais523> considerably smaller again
23:50:12 <ehird> that's using the command line
23:50:18 <ehird> also, perl -0e'eval <>' is shorter still
23:50:19 <ais523> oh, it doesn't need the parens
23:50:28 <ehird> but `eval join '', <>;` doesn't use the command line, and is pretty
23:50:29 <ais523> and perl -0e'eval<>' is shorter still
23:50:35 <ais523> the parens were to force list context
23:50:44 <ais523> but you don't need list context there
23:51:12 <ehird> ais523: what is the value of $x after:
23:51:20 <ehird> sub foo { return (1, 2, 3); }
23:51:41 <ais523> foo returns an array, an array in scalar context returns its length
23:51:53 <ehird> I thought you meant last element
23:52:00 <ais523> no, that would be stupid
23:52:11 <fizzie> fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 3); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:52:11 <fizzie> fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 1, 1); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:52:29 <ais523> hmm... maybe I'm wrong
23:52:47 <ehird> [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:52:51 <ehird> Yes β that would be, and is, stupid.
23:53:00 <fizzie> I really didn't think it'd actually return the last element.
23:53:06 <Sgeo[College]> The professor just put up his solution, and it's saner and less wtf'y than mine
23:53:06 <ais523> what happens if you separate the my and the $x?
23:53:17 <ais523> the my may be forcing list context
23:53:27 <ehird> [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x; $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:53:34 <ehird> [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'x 7
23:54:19 <ehird> Sgeo[College]: NOT RAFB
23:54:38 <ais523> Sgeo[College]: is that yours or the professors?
23:54:41 <ais523> also, use rafb, it annoys ehird
23:55:04 <ais523> that's pretty elegant IMO, half the checks are redundant, but they make the code clearer
23:55:37 <ehird> LOGGET READERS: http://www.nopaste.com/p/atKQKnKjab
23:55:47 <Sgeo[College]> First time writing it, I actually made the mistake of 90 <= num_grade <= 100
23:55:56 <ehird> python lets you do that
23:56:10 <fizzie> What is even weirder is this:
23:56:11 <ehird> say, is there an efficient way to do 'round x up to the nearest power of 2?'
23:56:12 <fizzie> fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { my @a = (1, 2, 7); return @a; } my $x; $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:56:18 -!- kadaver has left (?).
23:56:18 <ais523> ehird: yep, see that bithacks thing
23:56:26 <ehird> ais523: relinketj?
23:56:35 <fizzie> I guess "return @a" there is in a non-list context. Or what is happening?
23:56:41 <ais523> fizzie: I've just figured it out
23:56:52 <ais523> you're calling sub foo in a scalar context
23:56:53 <ehird> [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { (1, 2, 7); } $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'
23:56:58 -!- cpt_obvious has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:56:58 <fizzie> Does it use the comma expression instead of list there in the return (1, 2, 7)?
23:57:01 <ehird> ais523: well sure and?
23:57:01 <ais523> so you're writing return (1, 2, 7)
23:57:10 <ais523> that means the return is evaluated in a scalar context
23:57:15 <ais523> so that's the comma operator, not an array literal
23:57:23 <ais523> the subroutine parses differently depending on how you call it
23:57:24 <ehird> that's just hideous
23:57:34 <ehird> it changes your code semantics depending on how it's called?
23:57:34 <fizzie> Yeah, something like that was my guess too. Heh.
23:57:41 <ehird> can you imagine how much that breaks?
23:57:48 <ais523> not very often, actually
23:58:17 <fizzie> fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x = foo(); my @x = foo(); print "x-scalar $x, x-list ", join(" ", @x), "\n";'
23:58:17 <fizzie> x-scalar 7, x-list 1 2 7
23:58:18 <ehird> ais523: sorry, have an urge: i said how much, not how often
23:58:22 <ehird> so your response is a non-sequitur
23:59:08 <fizzie> I think this sort of Perl nastiness is a nice point to go to sleep; night.
23:59:11 <ais523> fizzie: and scalar @x would be 3, in that case