< 1238284800 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you can't spend several minutes screaming in the time it takes your car to hit something < 1238284810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: wut? how on earth? < 1238284815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1238284821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOOH, planes usually crash at times they're supposed to be close to the ground anyway < 1238284824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I'd just pick the least painful < 1238284826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your loss of $1 is entirely risk-free < 1238284837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i see you found the glass link i would have suggested < 1238284843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: "If offered either €50 or a 50% chance of €100, a risk averse person will take the €50, a risk seeking person will take the 50% chance of €100, and a risk neutral person would have no preference between the two options." < 1238284898 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that $50 has exactly half the utility of $100?) < 1238284931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: actually, risk-averseness is often taken to affect the utility function < 1238284942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $100 has more than twice the utility of $50, you're risk-loving < 1238284946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has less than twice, you're risk-averse < 1238284957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, the theory breaks down in that most people don't have a consistent utility function < 1238284995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, the theory breaks down in that most people aren't spherical < 1238285001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utility $1 million > utility (1/2) $2 million, for me anyway < 1238285004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha lament < 1238285005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why does that matter? < 1238285021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're risk-averse with large amounts of money, nearly everyone is < 1238285028 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people were spherical, there would be a very high risk of them just rolling away < 1238285036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's mainly because, < 1238285041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't really understand amounts that large < 1238285047 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok: step 1, lt us assume a spherical American < 1238285053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you haven't heard the joke about horses? < 1238285053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we had $1mil for multiple years and managed the finances < 1238285057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that'd change < 1238285059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: :DD < 1238285068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: businesses tend to be a lot more risk-neutral than individuals < 1238285071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly for that reason < 1238285074 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do tell < 1238285094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :businesses tend to be a lot more risk-neutral than individuals, because unlike individuals, businesses don't die of old age in a few decades < 1238285102 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I remember is some mathematician trying to predict horse races. "First, let us assume spherical horses: < 1238285103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1238285104 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1238285104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :businesses only die if they perform badly < 1238285114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people die anyway, and they only have one life to take care of < 1238285121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats lament to increase the risk of such jokes -----### < 1238285125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so natural selection demands that they be risk-averse < 1238285148 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wanders just how quickly Microsoft would be locked up if it were a human < 1238285150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: not everyone thinks they will die < 1238285153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[see religion] < 1238285160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: prison, or mental institution? < 1238285161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that changes their riskness < 1238285166 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: both < 1238285174 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the value of money is 0 after you die, though < 1238285181 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you go to heaven or get reincarnated < 1238285182 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even the devout generally avoid death < 1238285189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: maybe your money goes to heaven with you < 1238285193 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1238285196 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that, scientology? < 1238285200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1238285211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1238285222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is your level any good? < 1238285223 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah, but for an evolved mind under a legal system with inheritance law... < 1238285224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me before I play it < 1238285225 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1238285230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: *g* < 1238285236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's mostly a speed level, with a bit of intelligence < 1238285244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fits onto one screen and there's no hidden information < 1238285245 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :level of what? < 1238285248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Enigma < 1238285255 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :describe < 1238285265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can do it about 1 time in 10, in under 40 seconds < 1238285269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: sure, that's valid < 1238285270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it's a puzzle game < 1238285274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you control a marble < 1238285277 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1238285280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can exert force on using your mouse < 1238285288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest levels you just have to move around a maze or whatever < 1238285288 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: although what evolved mind would count on all their children to remain evolved and rational? < 1238285295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally there are lots of other things in the level to make it harder < 1238285314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like boxes to push into water, or other moving things trying to run you down, or puzzles to solve < 1238285316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially puzzles < 1238285322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it uncommon not to be able to comprehend caring about things that happen after you stop having experiences? :| < 1238285344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level of mine I told #esoteric about today contains a flag, an extra life, and six moving arrow things < 1238285347 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a bit chip's challengy then? < 1238285351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with other things to make them move in a particular pattern < 1238285356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't think so < 1238285358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I don't know chip's challenge < 1238285364 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a aclassic < 1238285367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: good, then I'm normal :P < 1238285367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Enigma's nice and general, someone even programmed tetris in it < 1238285380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you made an Enigma level? < 1238285383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the marble moving onto pressure plates to control the tetris thing < 1238285384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 3. < 1238285384 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, I think I have heard of this one before < 1238285387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've made several < 1238285390 0 :swistakm!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1238285391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOL! < 1238285392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 finished, 3 work-in-progress < 1238285395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about 2 at the idea stage < 1238285403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I haven't started coding yet < 1238285406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if I get world record speed, how do I indicate that to the world? < 1238285407 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at puzzles though. I seem too details-oriented. < 1238285411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not sure < 1238285420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: show enigma devs the recording < 1238285422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind you, it was the April 1st level, which I did sometime in March) < 1238285427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be the standard practice I assume < 1238285430 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: details-oriented is how you solve puzzles < 1238285432 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1238285433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that even possible? I thought it was only possible on april 1 < 1238285435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean it doesn't update some server? < 1238285440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: heck no < 1238285443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I changed the system clock < 1238285444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more lofi :^) < 1238285445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I got the impression there was a server involved < 1238285446 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus this world has denied me practice at tolerating being completely confounded by some task I want to do < 1238285454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it knows the names < 1238285455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a ratings update option in the options < 1238285458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure what it does < 1238285463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1238285466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'd have to set it up first < 1238285468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: loads it from their server, I guess < 1238285473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to submit new records yourself < 1238285474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1238285475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you should just read the source to find out what happens < 1238285503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh jeez this looks hard < 1238285504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, first see how long it takes you to deduce what to do, then how long it takes you to do it < 1238285508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second took me longer < 1238285516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my reaction to the goddamned Basil puzzle was enough the convince me that fictional depictions of people going mad with obsession are at least plausible) < 1238285523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i got hit and smashed but it isn't restarting < 1238285531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1238285535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get trapped under the arrow block? < 1238285538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1238285542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what i mean by smashed < 1238285549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you restart where you started < 1238285552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's an arrow block there < 1238285555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you respawn underneath it < 1238285556 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: usually when i can't get a puzzle i blame it's challenge not being purely mathematical. < 1238285556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1238285557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so can't move < 1238285559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238285561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's stupid < 1238285562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are ais523's levels included with Enigma, or do they need to be downloadd? < 1238285567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: downloaded < 1238285567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: downloaded, from me < 1238285591 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i haven't solved rubik's cube yet, and it's just permutations, so that doesn't always work. < 1238285596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: another fun fact: although that level's entirely possible without f3, I find f3 makes it easier < 1238285606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f3? < 1238285610 0 :swistakm_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :swistakm < 1238285611 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm relatively sure i could solve it now tho) < 1238285612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill current ball < 1238285619 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if only i had one) < 1238285621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like shift-f3 but less dramatic < 1238285622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how to not get crushed. < 1238285624 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowob: the usual rubik's solutions use lots of memorisation, AIUI < 1238285627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: see the flag? < 1238285632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what flags do? < 1238285636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, you basically have no chance < 1238285642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of fundamental < 1238285643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea whatsoeve < 1238285643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1238285651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the flag marks the respawn point < 1238285655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've picked up a flag at least once < 1238285656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1238285657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dropped it < 1238285660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you respawn at the flag < 1238285670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowob, there are online Rubik's cubes < 1238285674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may as well tell you that so you have a chance, that's fundamental Enigma though and nothing to do with my programming < 1238285678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, that's really hard < 1238285697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in what way? < 1238285702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the speed aspect's the hardest bit < 1238285707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1238285710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowob, if you don't mind Java, http://www.javaonthebrain.com/java/rubik/ < 1238285724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, I normally have at least 1 second of buffer in which to do what I want < 1238285732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I keep bouncing and dropping the flag in the wrong place < 1238285739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, I only have one ball < 1238285741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should use a friendlier floor to make it a bit easy < 1238285743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I keep redoing it? < 1238285750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you start with 2 in inventory, and there's a third on the level < 1238285764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd need to respawn like 5 times... < 1238285771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no you don't < 1238285780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are six bolders, but you can do it in three respawns < 1238285782 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't really feel like a puzzle atm < 1238285783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the intelligence bit < 1238285785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1238285808 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm busy reading our uni's course listing. < 1238285817 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, you know, dreaming < 1238285824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.javaonthebrain.com/index.html so 1996 < 1238285829 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1238285836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but which will only perform well on computers with lightning-fast Internet connections, tons of memory, 600-MHz processors, " < 1238285853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did it again, although 1s off my personal best < 1238285859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be possible < 1238285900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to bother < 1238285906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not good at that sort of stuff < 1238285920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what sort of enigma level are you good at? < 1238285927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you've done any of mine yet < 1238285933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu. < 1238285936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the intelligence, not the memory, not the speed < 1238285946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I make a dex level, or would you fail that too? < 1238285948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least the non-speed ones don't break me. :D < 1238285988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the intelligence aspect of that was more interesting than the speed one < 1238285989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts playing with the OOTS/Erfworld viewer < 1238286000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you make a hyper-slow version I'll give it a go :P < 1238286004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like, work out, in the abstract, how that level's possible with only the three respawns you're given < 1238286017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure how to slow those things down < 1238286028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe by making the level bigger, but then you couldn't see the whole thing at once < 1238286040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, with an extra extra life, the level would become almost trivial) < 1238286082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I keep dropping the flag then walking over it is the problem < 1238286092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can hold the mouse button to not pick up an item < 1238286096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238286097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another Enigma trick that's nice to know < 1238286118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although starting to hold it drops an item, so you need to be careful with when you start to hold < 1238286145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this level probably scores a 4 for knowledge rather than the usual 3 < 1238286146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you just click to drop then continue hold < 1238286148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing < 1238286150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can < 1238286152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I normally do < 1238286156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238286198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last modified Februray 28, 2009. A Soko-Ban clone named ChocoBan. Also available for free for the iPhone and iPod Touch (from the Apple iTunes Store). " < 1238286205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow that javaonthebrain.com site is still updated XD < 1238286301 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a GITP viewer? < 1238286309 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to compensate for slow site? < 1238286313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinyurl.com/ootsview < 1238286331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait what? I didn't notice that < 1238286344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that jar doesn't open on os x. < 1238286366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28/03/2009 23:24:46 [0x0-0xb19b19].com.apple.JarLauncher[22878] java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: Bad version number in .class file < 1238286367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238286369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know someone got it to work on OS X. The forum's down though < 1238286372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what java version is it for < 1238286380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue. < 1238286846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, enigma tip: if one doesn't have precise enough mousework for some levels and one is desperate enough to cheat, enable mousekeys. Those can be used for doing perfect main directions and diagonals. < 1238287126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, why is the viewer stuck on 443? < 1238287204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238287274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hey, person who never talks. < 1238287314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It is kind of predictable that you didn't react to that. < 1238287349 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600MHz processors? Case of receding horizons? < 1238287376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Are you lagged by several minutes? :D < 1238287387 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope... < 1238287409 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or depending on workload, can be considerably more than that. :-> < 1238287433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: wow that smiley is epic, you're finnish right? so that sentence is actually ": [and now I depart]" but it's also a smiley woww < 1238287442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just expanded the theory of finnish ircing 10x < 1238287448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1238287454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowob: you should innovate like that more < 1238287477 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is familiar with Alfandra smilies too < 1238287478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Speaking of never talking, I got mooz to get back to IRC, though not as far back as to actually get on this channel. < 1238287501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just make a channel relevant to his interests and set it to redirect here. < 1238287506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll know what hit him immediately < 1238287527 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bait'n'switch? < 1238287541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like bait'n'#esoteric. That's catchy that. < 1238287552 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. };=8 < 1238287559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Let me try! < 1238287577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a piece of reverse penis on the top of my head, which has a serrated mouth. I am crying from one eye. < 1238287581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} mouth < 1238287584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; crying lips < 1238287584 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238287588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8 severed reverse penis < 1238287592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1238287620 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horns, wink, snout, nostrils, tounge sticking out < 1238287633 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought all smiley research was banned after =|;{> . < 1238287639 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is a dragon smiley) < 1238287644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no no it's sad evilmouth penisman < 1238287645 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 2 FlFEPF+LEf-F+EP-F+LE-fL+LENL-LE+lL-l++L-l-P+LENL-PE+lL-p++L-l+++++++P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-FP+LL-LEEsS+F-P+LEs < 1238287647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure < 1238287647 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: eh? < 1238287663 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the original author would disagree < 1238287669 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ?? < 1238287671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Fire people flee lentils in penile lipppppppppppppppppppppppppp less FPLEs? < 1238287682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a geek code esque thing < 1238287789 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys i need ideas :| < 1238287799 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its some sort of program code. 2 2 Means 2 fields, 2 locals... + and - manipulates pointer, don't remember what the rest do... < 1238287820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you know la fizzie right < 1238287825 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilari, wtf is that, esocode? < 1238287850 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1238287852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need ideas! < 1238287897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make PSOX perfect < 1238287935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait - esocode existed, didn't it, or am i vaguely remembering something else... < 1238287962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google fail < 1238287990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, why is OOTS Viewer downloading so slowly? < 1238288158 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, E is pop 2, skip next (non +-) if not equal, f is pop and write field, F is push field, l is pop and write local, L is push local, p is pop and write parameter, P is push parameter, s is pop object and send rest of stack to it, S is push reference to self, N is create object. < 1238288347 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there methods on objects? < 1238288375 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers functiony objects < 1238288381 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Just the message handler method. < 1238288413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: functions -ar-- objects < 1238288414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1238288423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Java I mean < 1238288426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1238288441 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: how about a hat that's also a plate < 1238288447 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort that have lots of fields that act as ambient vairables inside a huge functiony calcualtion < 1238288453 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergh... 2 2 doesn't mean 2 parameters, 2 locals, it means 2 parameters 2 fields. < 1238288464 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowob: but can it be made in a soviet vintage kitsch style? < 1238288504 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what kind of style that would be < 1238288510 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1238288515 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the only usable data type is reference. < 1238288524 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the functionality that matters < 1238288711 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, E ignores skipping effect of E. < 1238288836 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was 2 2 2 fields, 2 locals... < 1238288863 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read "2 lolcats" < 1238288881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, as that code uses P (Push parameter) after way too many +'s for just 2 parameters... < 1238289100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: What I wrote when you said functiony objects: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=3030 < 1238289144 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not what I meant < 1238289157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not, but it sparked an idea nontheless. < 1238289163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you mean < 1238289183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are objects that exist merely so their fields can hold objects instead of said objects being passed through 10 levels of static methods < 1238289196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1238289205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that sounds much more boring than my code :-) < 1238289215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how gadts give you dependent typing of a sort < 1238289483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gadts? < 1238289499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalized abstract data types. < 1238289503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for some reason, I thought you mean typing like typing on a computer < 1238289507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: See 'data CounterMessage r where' @ http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=3030#a3030 < 1238290556 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1238292653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=a9xAKttWgP4&fmt=18 in J < 1238292659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r =. (3 3 $ i. 9) e. 1 2 3 4 7 < 1238292663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_1 _2 |. 5 7 {. r < 1238292700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R;R;R < 1238292941 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238292952 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1238293028 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown host chat.freenode.net < 1238293029 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1238293084 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmh < 1238293090 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's getting late < 1238293102 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown host irc.freenode.net < 1238293105 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown host freenode.net < 1238293124 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else having this problem? < 1238293140 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I < 1238293237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :host gives plenty of hits < 1238293250 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry? < 1238293253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*A's < 1238293263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unix host command < 1238293340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they're probably cached from before < 1238293394 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/traversal.ch?domain=irc.freenode.net&type=A < 1238293448 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I need to use an ip address for AndroidIRC? < 1238293543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't have to < 1238293545 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-getting host in debian.. this should be interesting :) < 1238293563 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry.. somehow I got into the wrong channel < 1238293572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1238293581 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tohught I was in #android < 1238293589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1238293630 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I get weird rendering bugs in irssi and people from other channels show up in the one I'm in. < 1238293712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s5.tinypic.com/6zaazr.jpg <-- Holy windows 3.11 batman! < 1238294577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1238294579 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1238295377 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"godnatt" < 1238295402 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1238295406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I got Win3.1 working in a VM < 1238295427 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicht < 1238295430 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1238295431 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g* < 1238295435 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1238295447 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1238299280 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was windows 95 < 1238299298 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... i really fail at watching my timestamps < 1238299346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry about that. i just lost an entire hour... < 1238307268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1238307539 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Dewi < 1238308201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1238313599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1238313600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1238313707 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-23.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238316964 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238318379 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-94-132.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1238318379 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1238319120 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1238321131 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer" < 1238321553 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238321691 0 :tombom!i=tombom@82.26.200.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1238322055 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238322386 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1238322527 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-138.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238323526 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-14.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1238323925 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1238324183 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1238324573 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1238324581 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238324586 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1238324888 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238325761 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238326168 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1238326171 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1238326645 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238326787 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238328051 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1238328065 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238328464 0 :tombom_!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1238329352 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1238329352 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tombom < 1238329503 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-62-31.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1238330016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just invented some sort of batch reloading of cmake project variables < 1238330042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I changed something that affected names of the cached variables in the build system of cfunge < 1238330862 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol was gonna go to teh shoppe, stopped to play for a sec, ended up falling in a piano trance for like an hour < 1238330939 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now shoppe time < 1238330942 0 :oklowob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1238333500 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1238333783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1238333786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: fopen(http://xml2.lkml.org/thread.php?origin=1068846) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: HTTP request failed! in /srv/lkml.org/scripts/getmail.php on line 109 < 1238333786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1238333786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: fgets(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /srv/lkml.org/scripts/getmail.php on line 110 < 1238333791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on lkml.org < 1238333795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it runs php heh < 1238333848 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fopen to internal server? < 1238333909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1238333917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1238333958 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml2.lkml.org gives forbidden, maybe it requires more header or simply has error < 1238333980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible that it uses php at all IMO < 1238334000 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1238334110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what makes that especially horrible. < 1238334840 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASP would be horrible < 1238334858 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is one of the logical ways to go < 1238334887 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though for some reason i'd expect some inbred bunch of perl scripts < 1238334899 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, s/inbred/in-house/ < 1238334933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess that would be thematically more appropriate. < 1238335070 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kernel-space tiny httpd that was the thing of the day for some 2.4.x or 2.5.x kernels, has it survived? < 1238335512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has. < 1238335515 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1238335528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fenrus.demon.nl/ looks pretty obsoleted. < 1238335607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't see any remains of it in this 2.6.28-age kernel source tree either. < 1238335790 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not even 2.5.x, it was 2.3.x < 1238335794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUX_web_server seems to be sort-of-a successor, but even there the download dir doesn't have patches past 2.6.18. < 1238335884 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems tohave died a year or two ago < 1238335906 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice idea though, a buffer overflow could drop you right into kernel space < 1238336623 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1238336951 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-208.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238340913 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1238341060 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1238341502 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1238341521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1238341572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1238341589 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1238341634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1238341661 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238341891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238342079 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1238342230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm any idea what the lines like ".quad L(Got0), L(P1Q0), L(P2Q0), L(P3Q0)" in http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/x86_64/memset.S?rev=1.2.2.7&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc are good for? < 1238342266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i've never seen that before < 1238342296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are put in .rodata, some sort of lookup table I think, but I can't figure out for what memset would need that < 1238342374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump table, maybe? < 1238342378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be using duff's device < 1238342385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1238342866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pitty the OS doesn't expose some interface to allow marking some pages as write combining in user space apps < 1238342868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A jump table is what it feels like, and there's the PIC/non-PIC versions of it too. At least for the SSE code SSEnQm looks like it the correct location to jump to in order to set m*16+n bytes before RDI, assuming xmm0 and rdx are filled with the byte to use. < 1238342881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/like it/like/ < 1238342888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1238342903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of code for a memset, though. < 1238342950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238343291 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit tired of checking mycology result by hand, so made this thing: http://f.imagehost.org/view/0891/97519323 < 1238343309 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good? :p < 1238343315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1238343344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, mycology with syntax highlightin < 1238343347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*highlighting < 1238343350 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1238343367 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with awk madness < 1238343414 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mearie.org/pyfunge/raw-file/9776990e3964/mycology-filter a bit stupid, but it works anyway < 1238343499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, that has a lot of special cases for pyfunge it seems? < 1238343542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Cannot test D reliably\. If this line begins with "GOOD: ", it worked\.$/ { BAD(); next } < 1238343544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what? < 1238343558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need ^ there.. < 1238343559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1238343563 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1238343564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238343572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1238343573 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that line begins with GOOD: it should be caught at /^GOOD: / < 1238343575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it tests for GOOD earlier < 1238343624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, FPSP and FPDP differ here when I compile it using SSE or x87 in the last decimal of some result iirc < 1238343626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1238343637 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tested the filter with pyfunge and cfunge, but i don't think it has a lot of special cases < 1238343658 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so it is marked UNSURE, to be tested by hand ;) < 1238343664 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are marked as UNSURE* < 1238343688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1238343720 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tweaked the output mostly for splitting UNSURE and UNDEF, what mycology itself doesn't split but comparison page seemingly does < 1238343744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, for y I think it prints BAD when they aren't good < 1238343748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you saw before < 1238343785 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it does output BAD: line along with information line... < 1238343793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1238343840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1238343843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, /^\tThat the year is [12][0-9][0-9][0-9] $/ { UNSURE(); next } <-- not Y3K safe! < 1238343856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Y10K < 1238343872 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so it has to be [1-9][0-9]*? :p < 1238343874 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: You don't think it starting with 1 is BAD? :-P < 1238343874 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1238343890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you time travel a lot? < 1238343894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, TRDS... < 1238343898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Å < 1238343900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P* < 1238343918 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if i met the time traveler i can claim mycology-filter is time-travel-safe :p < 1238343921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's only in a sub-universe with a different date :-P < 1238343930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, not to BC dates... < 1238343931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: >_< < 1238343994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err doesn't TIME start from Monday? I thought it did? < 1238343999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misremember < 1238344055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:56 FireFly: Night < 1238344055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00 GreaseMonkey: ehird: that was windows 95 < 1238344060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK daylight savings time. < 1238344086 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1238344093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? Isn't your log in unix timestamp? < 1238344103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the client, I mean the log < 1238344109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no/ < 1238344109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1238344115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be < 1238344115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1238344132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because then you don't have to deal with DST in logs? < 1238344144 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unix timestamp repeats itself at the leap second, so it has to be TAI < 1238344153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err of course I want it to show me the local time AnMaster < 1238344155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hate dst in general < 1238344156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, star date! < 1238344160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shitty idea < 1238344166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1238344190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, half of the year unix timestamp would match the local time < 1238344194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static arrays are always initialised to 0 in C, aren't they? < 1238344201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they need an explicit ={0}? < 1238344202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Undefined, no? < 1238344207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's for locals < 1238344209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think they are < 1238344230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it so for all static variables? < 1238344283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm getting an obscure bug in the C-INTERCAL profiler < 1238344291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines that don't run at all are often being shown with large times < 1238344328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ick has a profiler? < 1238344331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1238344336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the darcs version is buggy < 1238344341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've mostly fixed the bug < 1238344341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugger I knew (yuk) but what is the name of the profiler then? < 1238344344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still manifesting < 1238344347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profiler's also yuk < 1238344349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238344352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you access it via ick -p < 1238344356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tried valgrind? < 1238344359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can run the debugger and profiler simultaneously < 1238344365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that would make it even slower < 1238344373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find a faster example program < 1238344379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but still helps with finding corruptions < 1238344510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example from C99 of a function prototype: void f(double a[restrict static 3][5]); < 1238344518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what static does in that contexrt < 1238344520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context* < 1238344547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh: (Note that the last declaration also specifies that the argument corresponding to a in any call to f must be a non-null pointer to the first of at least three arrays of 5 doubles, which the others do not.) < 1238344550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238344584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C99 6.7.8.10 < 1238344585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems relevant < 1238344588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO edition < 1238344598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO/IEC 9899:TC3 to be exact < 1238344660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it basically means they should be zero filled < 1238344676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues rewriting http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=a9xAKttWgP4&fmt=18 in j < 1238344704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, ok < 1238344715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspecting I do have memory corruption; programs that ought to work fine are erroring for unknown reasons < 1238344719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally array-out-of-bounds < 1238344755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, out of array bounds for static arrays won't be detect by memcheck usually (memcheck being the default valgrind tool) < 1238344767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting < 1238344775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it errors running under the profiler, but not under the debugger < 1238344782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you have a new enough valgrind, 3.4.0 at least, try valgrind --tool=exp-ptrcheck < 1238344784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was < 1238344792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend the very last version < 1238344795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp means experimental < 1238344804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so likely you will get some spurious errors < 1238344814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3.3.1 < 1238344818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, way too old < 1238344820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone's watching that apl video i'm currently stuck at translating Φ¨ < 1238344849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I recommend upgrading anyway, since 3.4.0 and later can show where an unintialised value was allocated and more < 1238344858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I upgrade when my distro does < 1238344905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -fmudflap (both at object compilation and linking, for all objects and all linking) might be useful < 1238344919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your gcc supports it < 1238344939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just printf debug < 1238344950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only a couple of places where the buffer overflow could be happening, after all < 1238344979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I just said there are tools for it. But you need new enough ones < 1238344983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind can still help < 1238344989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind --db-attach=yes < 1238344992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is very useful < 1238344997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumping you on the exact instruction < 1238345061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting any errors from valgrind, though < 1238345072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does your gcc have mudflap? < 1238345078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so# < 1238345090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it can check static variables too < 1238345094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for all I know it's a logic error, not an overflow < 1238345098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1238345128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I generally found it less time consuming to run a 30 second valgrind of mudflap run before searching for logic errors in such cases. < 1238345160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are the options for the mudflap? < 1238345166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fmudflap on the compiler < 1238345167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itt: using a shitty language slows down development < 1238345175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -fmudflap -lmudflap for link? < 1238345188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sec.. < 1238345203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(USE_MUDFLAP) < 1238345203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set_target_properties(cfunge PROPERTIES LINK_FLAGS "-fmudflap") < 1238345203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : target_link_libraries(cfunge mudflap) < 1238345203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif(USE_MUDFLAP) < 1238345216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need both -fmudflap and -lmudflap at link time I think < 1238345221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you use gcc to link < 1238345226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you call ld directly: no clue < 1238345258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Changing server" < 1238345259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r =. (3 3 $ i. 9) e. 1 2 3 4 7 < 1238345259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : R =. _1 _2 |. 5 7 {. r < 1238345268 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1238345321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs libmudflap < 1238345325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I link via gcc < 1238345331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1238345340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why llvm-gcc doesn't work for C-INTERCAL on Ubuntu; Ubuntu llvm-gcc buggily calls the x86 version of connect2 < 1238345352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238345358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1238345401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't make much sense to have libmudflap in a separate package from gcc... < 1238345408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, why not? < 1238345417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people want to compile C, but don't want to instrument their code < 1238345427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc without libmudflap is certainly plausible < 1238345435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would it make sense to have cpp, collect2, and gcc in separate packages? < 1238345438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying it doesn't make much sense to have cfunge in a separate package from ick < 1238345445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also let me check space usage.. < 1238345450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, cpp and gcc are in separate packages < 1238345454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1238345456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane < 1238345461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although gcc's cpp is in the same package as it as well < 1238345470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err even more insane < 1238345475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1238345476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not insan < 1238345477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1238345491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# du -sh /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libmudflap.so.0.0.0 < 1238345492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118K /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libmudflap.so.0.0.0 < 1238345497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, saves a lot does it? < 1238345503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size is not the only argument, you moron < 1238345510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we'd put busybox in every package < 1238345513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hey, it's small < 1238345527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# du -sh /bin/busybox < 1238345527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.9M /bin/busybox < 1238345527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1238345540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooosh < 1238345543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ point going over your heard < 1238345561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you might as well use a separate package for every single file :) < 1238345569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1238345588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might as well have one package for every single file! < 1238345598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant++ < 1238345607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't I just say that? < 1238345611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238345616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woosh^2 < 1238345618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1238345624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, just different wording.. < 1238345636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1238345636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238345642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that works too Deewiant < 1238345643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1238345648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about as logical < 1238345657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, Deewiant was rebutting your point. < 1238345666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... it seems that libmudflap's a .so not an .a < 1238345668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I link it in? < 1238345683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lmudflap... < 1238345684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1238345685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -lmudflap -fmudflap < 1238345687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1238345690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lmudflap doesn't work < 1238345697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just get a can't-find-mudflap error from configure < 1238345699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If this is a debiany system, you probably want to install libmudflap0-4.4-dev or something if you want to link it. < 1238345699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's weird. It is what I use < 1238345700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the .so files are there < 1238345705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I did just install that < 1238345713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This package contains the headers and the static libraries." < 1238345716 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that ais523 pronounces .so like the word "so" < 1238345735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, how do you know how? < 1238345742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: no, I pronounce it dot-s-o < 1238345749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dot starts with a consonant < 1238345757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does so < 1238345765 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so "an .a" was a typo? < 1238345765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably kerlo leaves out the . in .so, and s-o starts with a vowel < 1238345774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: ah, that's interesting < 1238345783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I wrote "an .a" < 1238345784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think there was some issue with how configure treated LDFLAGS and LIBS separately < 1238345786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, around here the -dev package has all those .a files. And .so is in the libmudflap0 package. < 1238345790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes not using LIBS as well < 1238345797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ended up with -lmudflap in both < 1238345801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it work with automess < 1238345808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -fmudflap in LDFLAGS < 1238345824 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238345830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer warping is awesome < 1238345838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe I installed the wrong version < 1238345846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what systems do that? < 1238345846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs libmudflap0-4.3-dev < 1238345853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had libmudflap0-dev before < 1238345859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, I mean the moving of a pointer to another place by a program < 1238345863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would suggest same version as your GCC version < 1238345866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old X programs do it, but kind of shittily < 1238345870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9's acme does it beautifully < 1238345871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The gcc package you are using has a "Suggests" dependency on the libmudflap it likes to use, I think. < 1238345891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "moving of a pointer to another place by a program" <-- jmp? call? < 1238345896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1238345897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, there are the .a files < 1238345898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mouse < 1238345900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer < 1238345901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1238345902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh... < 1238345903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1238345914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer == instruction pointer, data pointer, and so on < 1238345915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1238345916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ CFLAGS=-fmudflap LDFLAGS=-lmudflap ../configure < 1238345918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be working < 1238345933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need -fmudflap at link time to gcc too iirc < 1238345938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some startup files differ iirc < 1238345956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do < 1238345981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFLAGS seems to affect the link sometimes < 1238345981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you will need it when linking the ick program you are debugging I suspect < 1238345983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not other times < 1238345986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be a build system bug < 1238346021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah when I did mudflap on ick last time I ended up with something like: CFLAGS=-fmudflap LDFLAGS='-fmudflap -lmudflap' LIBS='-lmudflap' iirc < 1238346029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it working < 1238346051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh also when ick compiles the object file < 1238346055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, found the build system bug < 1238346058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1238346058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was nice and useful < 1238346067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :details? < 1238346068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing LDFLAGS on the build of host system < 1238346074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like bin2c < 1238346078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238346079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are to be not cross-compiled < 1238346080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1238346081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break things < 1238346084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget LDFLAGAS < 1238346086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LDFLAGS < 1238346094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAGAS :D < 1238346154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cnprog.com/ <-- It's exactly like stack overflow, but you get to read the retardedness in Chinese instead. < 1238346162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee. < 1238346199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost same design even... < 1238346220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not almost. < 1238346222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1238346240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the yellow box is dashed around the edges on cnprog but not on the stackoverflow one < 1238346241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1238346248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that exactly yes < 1238346251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yellow box is just an infobox on the homepage. < 1238346258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not part of the design per se. < 1238346289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the colors differ slightly too on the infobox < 1238346293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ < 1238346293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1238346300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is it not part of the design per se? < 1238346856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are valgrind and mudflap compatible? < 1238346860 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1238346907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc yes < 1238346918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however see MUDFLAP_OPTIONS too < 1238346937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUDFLAP_OPTIONS=help build_mud/cfunge < 1238346943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what options exist < 1238346952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably need to turn on some < 1238346960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting both valgrind and mudflap errors, but only when I use both at once < 1238346971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1238346973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what code? < 1238346985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo err, my directory hierarchy is breaking down < 1238346992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? < 1238346992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do I put code I want to work on that isn't mine... < 1238347006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, src/external? < 1238347012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1238347013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1238347017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/Code/others/ < 1238347022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would work too < 1238347036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/Code/morons/ < 1238347038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/Code/less_important_people_than_I/ < 1238347045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, oerjan is the faster. < 1238347049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1238347056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1238347057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~sartre/Code/hell/ < 1238347066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1238347079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1238347081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell is a really good name < 1238347083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using that < 1238347084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have a ~/research directory < 1238347091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is for everything I haven't written < 1238347095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it fits under ~/esoteric < 1238347095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ~/Downloads is for using < 1238347096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not working on < 1238347164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238347182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just keep a lot of stuff in ~, and when it gets cluttered, I move just about everything under subdirectory "_" and tell myself "I'll sort through those some day". Can't really advocate this system, though, it leads to paths like _/_/_old/unsorted/_. < 1238347201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, there are no mudflap errors < 1238347203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that run < 1238347207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mudflap options set < 1238347213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it still isn't working, for unknown reasons < 1238347215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect a logic bug < 1238347216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both AMD and Intel docs contradict each other internally (as in different places in intel docs contradict other parts of intel docs and vice verse) about if SFENCE is needed after streaming store by MOVNTPS < 1238347247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably best to add it just to be sure < 1238347255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some places say yes, other say that (quoting AMD): "A subsequent non-write-combining operation has a write address that matches the WC-buffer active-address range [forces storing]." < 1238347296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I guess so < 1238347465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastebin.ca/1375843 < 1238347468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem I have at the moment < 1238347476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no overflows (both printf and mudflap agree) < 1238347493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet many of the profiler times are impossibly large < 1238347494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is Time581520223.913506800 from? < 1238347501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's because the program exited < 1238347514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1238347517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it counts the remaining time to the epoch, AFAICT < 1238347523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ideal, but not the main problem < 1238347523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1238347533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1: Time581520223.913506800, Avg581520223.913506800, Avg Exec581520223.913506800, Exec 1, Abs 0 < 1238347536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly that is wrong yes < 1238347542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the C1: Time 4.294967297 that's more clearly wrong < 1238347546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lasting longer than the program as a whole took < 1238347554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a very suspcious number of seconds given < 1238347558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, around 4 seconds? < 1238347565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the output from time above < 1238347571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1238347579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 4294967296 = 2^32 < 1238347595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure the scale is correct btw? < 1238347598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1238347603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't before, but I fixed that bug this morning < 1238347615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mixing up nanoseconds and microseconds happened a few times to me < 1238347621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving weird results < 1238347634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1238347678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I wonder what caused it... < 1238347690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the fact that it is 2^32 should provide a hint... < 1238347694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1238347701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^32-1 + a dot added < 1238347708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, floating point anywhere? < 1238347711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238347714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1238347717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's fixed-point < 1238347730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that number's 0x0000000100000001 < 1238347739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks to me like it's got muddled up with an int array < 1238347739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is it stored in memory? use gdb and put a watchpoint on that memory point < 1238347745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might help < 1238347750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that mudflap wasn't complaining < 1238347775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, be aware of that watch points normally triggers a few instructions after they actually happened on some CPUs < 1238347783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is due to out of order execution < 1238347787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1238347924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, Intel docs give weaker guarantees than the AMD64 Architecture docs mandate for all processors implementing x86_64... < 1238347927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1238347951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just doesn't make any sense < 1238347955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What guarantees? < 1238347991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, about write combining with MOVNTPS on memory mapped as writeback < 1238348002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you copy-on-write a file? < 1238348008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write combining? What guarantees does that have? :-P < 1238348066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it should work says AMD docs, they even recommend it and say that any data in cache will be evicted. Intel docs says the effect is not well defined if the data is in cache. < 1238348073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1238348590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/bhbuBo71.html < 1238348606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that AMD contradict itself there Intel also contradict AMD and vice verse < 1238348623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is a SFENCE enough? Is it needed at all? < 1238348635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's possible that the two processors behave differently, is it not? < 1238348653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proc/types of proc/ < 1238348663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, point is this is in the x86_64 definition, thus they should implement it the same < 1238348687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, both claim to implement x86 and x86_64 + SSE and SSE2 and such < 1238348784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, AMD even *recommends* MOVENTPS it for non-write-combined regions. < 1238348800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific, writeback ones < 1238348841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1238348911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug, I don't know, I don't mess with write-combining < 1238349313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bacon is impossible < 1238349349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but crunchy < 1238349366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossibunchy < 1238349389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r =. (3 3 $ i. 9) e. 1 2 3 4 7 < 1238349389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R =. _1 _2 |. 5 7 {. r < 1238349620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uroclub.com/ WJW < 1238349793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, insane... < 1238349820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, found anything about that odd number? < 1238349840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238349850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you try the watch point thingy I suggested? < 1238349883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't < 1238349888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it might be worth it < 1238349890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of hard to get gdb invovled < 1238349894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1238349898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the file's running from a system() call < 1238349924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just add gdb --args in that system call, recompile and run? < 1238349938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't like messing with the thing I'm trying to debug < 1238349946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going to get dinner now probably, I'll be back in a bit < 1238349952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1238349966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238350837 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yey, base64 in JS, 350 chars < 1238350852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, isn't it built in < 1238350857 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1238350859 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not afaik < 1238350898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1238351042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stopabductions.com/ < 1238351249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, joke or madman? < 1238351253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter. < 1238351256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238351274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it contain tinfoil? I just didn't manage to read on < 1238351286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure exactly what it contains < 1238351290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238351323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Insert alien abduction joke here" < 1238351342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads ubuntu 9.04 beta for 64 bit to try in qemu < 1238351363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you use parallels or something? < 1238351367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1238351372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not much good for non-windows stuff < 1238351376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1238351380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tired of remaking the free trial all the time < 1238351586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not tinfoil, velostat (a 3M trademark). It's this conductive plastic-like material used to avoid problems with static electricity. "Examples of these applications include electrically conductive bags of protective sleeves for static-sensitive components, grounding mats or as interleavers between rolls of Smartcard (chipcard) modules" < 1238351682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3M specifications don't mention shielding from alien thought-control, but... < 1238351790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just explained time cube. < 1238351935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you use virtualbox, too? At least I think I saw a screenshot. < 1238351964 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a `du -chs ~/_` please? :) < 1238351970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: plan 9 doesn't work on it < 1238352017 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell that's some synchronicity, i only just finished getting the plan9 iso < 1238352038 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, was thinking of virtualbox too < 1238352051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: Actually in this current system the "first-level" _ is actually ~/data/colin_backups. This is all stuff-to-be-sorted-through, though: 15G /home/fis/data/colin_backups/ < 1238352082 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea the usual 'unsorted' plague: "i'll just get around to it, maybe tomorrow" < 1238352110 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah Unsorted and Temp now totalling 17G < 1238352112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a lot of abandoned coding projects in ~/src/archived_prog/_/archive/, too. < 1238352124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this sort of used to be my system < 1238352126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a pain < 1238352138 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3200 files < 1238352189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh those grey-metallish bags? < 1238352197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for electrical components and such < 1238352220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think it's exactly that, since this looks like black plastic garbage bag. But something like that, certainly. < 1238352228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238352236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"find ~/src/archived_prog/ -type f | wc -l" reports 13390, heh. < 1238352242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I never seen them as black though < 1238352275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These bags are usually plastic and have a distinctive color (silvery for metalized PET film and other similar plastics, pink or black for polyethylene)." < 1238352326 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: got a long way to go, sorting themout < 1238352373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I'm hoping I can just keep on pushing them into deeper and deeper directory hierarchies, and then maybe the farthest branches will fall off naturally. < 1238352393 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this UNIX autosort thingie you might want to consider < 1238352433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it do? < 1238352451 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah crap the whole of .gr computer eshops, and not one 'happy hacking' keyboard... i hate going for MS kbds again < 1238352464 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: puts them out of their misery: rm -rf < 1238352473 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you run out of excuses, however, with bigger disks < 1238352486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But what if there's something terribly important in there!" < 1238352506 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea that's the big problem < 1238352513 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of all the GBs i've deleted < 1238352519 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only once this came out to be true < 1238352539 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was the one thing i couldn't find (or even remember exactly) again < 1238352557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46 fizzie: Yes, well, I'm hoping I can just keep on pushing them into deeper and deeper directory hierarchies, and then maybe the farthest branches will fall off naturally. < 1238352559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1238352564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I once rm -rf ~/Code < 1238352570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since all in there was shit abandoned useless crap < 1238352615 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah god, the HH kbds are upwards of 150 pounds < 1238352684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my oldest programming-related stuff has in fact already fallen off the disk, in fact. ~/data/colin_backups/oldhome_old3.tar.gz!old3/ seems to be the oldest I can find, and those are timestamped 1999. < 1238352712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you fizzie? < 1238352729 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not that old" ;p < 1238352736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1238352742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 16 in 1999, I think. < 1238352744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey andreou, i recognize your name < 1238352754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you here in like 2003 < 1238352763 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, before the crisis < 1238352770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wu < 1238352770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1238352791 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know, the usual: "fuck this computers stuff, i ain't touching these damned things again" < 1238352803 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, reality has a unique way of going round in circles < 1238352803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1238352823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I stopped using a computer it'd be akin to what a drug addict experience < 1238352823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1238352886 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is < 1238352906 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange, sitting at the desk with a book, and _not_ having a monitor in front < 1238352912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've probably got more identity on here than in my actual brain :-) < 1238352921 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer you mean? < 1238352923 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the cloud < 1238352929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1238352933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although cloud is a stupid term < 1238352948 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite true < 1238352960 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does look like a cloud < 1238352965 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238352969 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, stupid question < 1238352972 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1238352991 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does ls colors some folders with a green background? < 1238353003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1238353006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the permission bits < 1238353014 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but which one < 1238353014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does world-writable or something with that. < 1238353025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something it thinks is very important, anyway. < 1238353048 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea that was it, o-rwx offed the colours < 1238353085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHER_WRITABLE 34;42 # dir that is other-writable (o+w) and not sticky < 1238354868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:26 vixey: I don't understand this entroy stuff < 1238354868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:26 vixey: is it real? < 1238354869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:26 vixey: entropy < 1238354871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:27 vixey: entropy is obviously false by evolution < 1238354873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—#haskell < 1238354989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:28 vixey: Baughn: can you really put a measure of entropy on the universe at every moment < 1238354989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:28 vixey: Baughn: and someone proved this is always decreasing < 1238354990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1238355189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu startup is slooooooooow < 1238355522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:37 vixey: I don't believe that entropy always increases, you can't prove this until you fully understand the brain < 1238355587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default ubuntu 9.10 text rendering=fugly < 1238355971 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that slow < 1238355977 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you load of course < 1238355993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: in a vm on a live cd its slow :) < 1238355999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with the beta 9.10 < 1238356002 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from cd or from iso image? < 1238356006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iso < 1238356012 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be fast < 1238356014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vm is skimpy: just 256mb/ram < 1238356029 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah may be that < 1238356094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: I had it as 512mb < 1238356097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was hideosly slow < 1238356102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm trying with less to see if it'll make the vm go faste < 1238356103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1238356175 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck with plan9? < 1238356186 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and virtualbox < 1238356215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9 +virtualbox failed, plan 9+qemu works like a charm < 1238356221 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu? < 1238356225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1238356225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu < 1238356247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... 0-0xffffffffffffff80 == ? (assuming wraparound is defined for signed 64 bit integer) < 1238356247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try ubuntu+virtualbox if this is ridiculously slow too < 1238356255 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and it has multiple targets < 1238356288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out what sub $0xffffffffffffff80,%rax is, gcc using it instead of add in a for loop going upwards... < 1238356314 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does qemu come with a nice gui? < 1238356339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: not come, no < 1238356341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what os/ < 1238356344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on os x I use "Q" < 1238356352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kju-app.org/ < 1238356368 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238356442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any idea? < 1238356446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it adds 128 < 1238356448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou: why not try it < 1238356451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1238356451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1238356469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1238356472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):002:0> (0-0xffffffffffffff80) % 0xffffffffffffffff < 1238356474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> 127 < 1238356477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said why not try it < 1238356495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : andreou: why not try it <-- that? < 1238356500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong nick in that case :) < 1238356501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1238356503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I corrected < 1238356504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that other part where he said 'why not try it' < 1238356504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with AnMaster: < 1238356506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1238356533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 127 doesn't make any sense. The program would have crashed if it did that < 1238356545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what you get. < 1238356553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is irb btw? < 1238356559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactive RuBy < 1238356560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can compile the program and output what happens, can't you? < 1238356569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes I'm debugging it in gdb... < 1238356585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do you ask what it does if you can just observe the successive values? < 1238356587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then ruby is wrong. It adds 128.. < 1238356597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1238356599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to modulo that+1 < 1238356600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1238356607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1238356608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):002:0> (0-0xffffffffffffff80) % (0xffffffffffffffff+1) < 1238356608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> 128 < 1238356670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.macruby.org/blog/2009/03/28/experimental-branch.html MacRuby to use llvm < 1238356671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1238356731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, virtualbox is running ubuntu nicely < 1238356742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far < 1238356782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text rendering still fugly < 1238356819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/BTLUV.png <-- ugly text rendering, 8.10 looked nicer < 1238356822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like windows < 1238356846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty to me < 1238356855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'm not a Mac user :-P < 1238356874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you can see the subpixels < 1238356885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really I can't < 1238356902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an attentive eye :) < 1238356909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like said, I'm not a Mac user < 1238356911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never enable subpixel rendering for a reason. I prefer clean sharp fonts. < 1238356946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still slightly anti-aliased, and partly hinted) < 1238356950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clear sharp fonts are possible on subpixel < 1238356956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs to be really good subpixel, and a high dpi display < 1238356965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what my settings are < 1238356971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care much :-P < 1238356977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my display isn't very high DPI though < 1238356982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right. < 1238356991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Never look into typography. It ruins your life. < 1238357009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick question: Should I use Gnumeric, or OpenOffice.org Calc? < 1238357013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked into it somewhat < 1238357016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, kcalc? < 1238357020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For what? < 1238357024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kcalc is nothing like those ones < 1238357029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are spreadsheet thingies < 1238357041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah I meant kspread < 1238357043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from koffice < 1238357047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed up the name < 1238357049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does kspread work on Windows? < 1238357050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koffice is hilariously bad :-) < 1238357060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know. It just wasn't in that list < 1238357067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, howso? < 1238357071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: no idea. I don't use any of them really < 1238357073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Carries all the mistakes of microsoft office into the new frontier of bad open soucre < 1238357078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible UI, terrible working model < 1238357332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first impressions of this are that it's worse than 8.10 but still ok < 1238357369 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-198.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238357374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would suggest some other distro than ubuntu probably if you want something working well... < 1238357390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ubuntu doesn't work well"? what planet are you on, they must have awesome drugs < 1238357402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " My first impressions of this are that it's worse than 8.10 but still ok" < 1238357411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1238357412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you want something better? < 1238357420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1238357424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok then < 1238357424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said 8.10 is better < 1238357427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded like you did < 1238357428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop reading shit into my words < 1238357470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You entered a password that consists of less than eight characters, which is considered too weak. You should choose a stronger password." < 1238357478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a huge urge to show the installer the time it'd take to bruteforce my pw < 1238357481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it accept 12345678? < 1238357485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1238357499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hopefully not < 1238357502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might < 1238357530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would < 1238357532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a shitty check < 1238357533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the settings for cracklib somewhere in /etc/pam.d I think < 1238357544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh? Not using cracklib? < 1238357549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it < 1238357555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks just like len(pwd)<8 < 1238357558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because that is what "passwd" does < 1238357563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, non-ASCII characters? < 1238357564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the graphical installer. < 1238357584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't it use the same API? It seems logical since it needs to deal with shadow and so on < 1238357595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1238357611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my system it says: < 1238357612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password required pam_cracklib.so difok=2 minlen=8 dcredit=2 ocredit=2 retry=3 < 1238357612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password required pam_unix.so try_first_pass use_authtok nullok sha512 shadow < 1238357620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't even using md5 < 1238357636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is defaults on gentoo < 1238358103 0 :[Vox]!n=XVO@pool-96-228-51-76.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238358112 0 :[Vox]!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1238358136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1238358136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1238358255 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238358326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: debian's massive advantage is apt; ubuntu's is the smooth desktop < 1238358338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that puts it pretty high as far as linux distros go < 1238358343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1238358355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt's interface is klunky but it certainly lives up to its name (Advanced...) < 1238358358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't like apt or aptitude myself. < 1238358365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like apt-get < 1238358368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah klunky definitely < 1238358372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the actual package manager is advanced < 1238358382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can handle most situations < 1238358401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I had it fail in interesting ways when trying to upgrade debian 4 to 5 < 1238358414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian 4... 5... wasn't that like 1997? < 1238358478 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apt's better than yum, that's for sure < 1238358485 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw anyone on debian here? < 1238358508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Ubuntu counts, my VM is. < 1238358528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1238358545 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i just wanna see if debian has autoremove in its apt-get < 1238358555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu's does, I think debian's does < 1238358557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oh god yum oh god rpm < 1238358558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1238358564 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238358579 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm used to it due to ubuntu, and i sat on a bit older debian and it wasn't there. i was thinking that it may be an ubuntu innovation < 1238358600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just a recent thing < 1238358606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu may have first made it < 1238358615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't there in '06, I know that much < 1238358971 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1238359105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bah, today's rpm is NOTHING compared to rpm back on Red Hat 5.0 < 1238359111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever used that? < 1238359114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1238359120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, too young I guess :D < 1238359129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was redhat5? 1998? < 1238359148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used it for about a month or two before red hat 6.0 was released iirc < 1238359157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first linux distro I tried < 1238359164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, must have been around 2000 I think < 1238359176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 1999 or so < 1238359181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway something like that < 1238359186 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even performing the simplest interactions needed to interface with society and maintain oneself presents an AI challenge beyond anything in the rigidly-defined world of finding proofs within logical systems. < 1238359190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was 5. You can hardly expect me to be using rpm then < 1238359197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Uh. Hi. < 1238359202 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, to misquote Barbie: "Shopping is hard, let's do math!" < 1238359210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan. < 1238359215 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grin < 1238359319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, yay, Chromium builds for os x < 1238359323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bluestatic.org/chromium/ < 1238359367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work. < 1238359389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit buggy. < 1238359474 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, this won't cause any trouble at all will it? --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oreo_Fun_Barbie.jpg < 1238360065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chromium? The icon on that page makes me thing it's Google Chrome for OS X, but is that it? < 1238360103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Chromium is the development Chrome. < 1238360113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Chrome = branded Chromium < 1238360140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1238360183 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1238360238 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron is Crome that doesn't phone home, apparently < 1238360323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phoning home = checking for updates < 1238360325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg!!11 < 1238360325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1238360366 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1238360384 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were that bad, would they have released it? < 1238360544 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly| < 1238360546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ? < 1238360575 0 :FireFly|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly- < 1238360602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1238360602 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1238360641 0 :FireFly-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1238361011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/88dc3/linux_is_my_home/c08jaj8 < 1238361222 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1238361352 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1238361357 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a bit redundant; many of those things are part of "GNU" < 1238361363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1238361373 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lol anyway < 1238361373 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-187.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1238361410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I hate systems that lag. Including <1s lag < 1238361555 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1ms lag is too much? < 1238361565 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about 1ps lag? < 1238361586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: 1ms is not lag :-P < 1238361597 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you define lag? < 1238361600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lag. < 1238361606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.1s is when it starts to be annoying for m < 1238361606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1238361608 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: nah, in that case, just sit 0.3mm closer to the screen < 1238361611 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So by recursion? < 1238361613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.5 makes me kill people < 1238361621 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1238361626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1s i throw myself out of the window < 1238361635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2s i do it twice < 1238361635 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag is bad, but jitter is worse < 1238361653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1238361665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not lag on irc < 1238361667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1238361670 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when most things have a lag of milliseconds, but there are random 3s delays < 1238361698 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you end up pressing things twice because you think they didn;t work the first time < 1238361732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1238361743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only happens to me when I hear the disk swap trashing < 1238361746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very seldom < 1238361757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since my disk is loud I can hear that happening quite well < 1238361763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I never get lag otherwise < 1238361793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because I have enabled the option for preemptible kernel in the kernel config < 1238361821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly does make the system more responsive < 1238361867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because your system is stripped down enough to be useless. < 1238361871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but useless fast) < 1238361931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, I run KDE. That is hardly "stripped down" < 1238361953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also firefox is running atm. So is konq < 1238361963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen your "KDE retro 2" < 1238362065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1238362073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still KDE 3.5 under the hood < 1238362092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also very little lag when I compile < 1238362101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol 3.5 < 1238362205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I know from experience that enabling CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y and using CONFIG_HZ=1000 help a lot with responsiveness. Also dynticks help < 1238362224 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you task-switch 1000 times per second? < 1238362254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you playing a game? What game? < 1238362257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, ... < 1238362266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1238362284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What lag are you referring to? < 1238362288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI lag < 1238362294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1238362320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, it makes a difference for real time audio processing, like MIDI recording. < 1238362324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm doing < 1238362327 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1238362330 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course# < 1238362345 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I find out what mine is set to I wonder < 1238362374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, also it isn't task switches iirc. it is timer interrupts < 1238362388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1238362394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ubuntu's font rendering is nice nowadays < 1238362406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, but using dynticks actually make it do around 20-30 interrupts when system is idle according to powertop < 1238362416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpixel rendering + full hinting = crisp, smooth fonts without any hinting issues < 1238362433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, more if X is started because nvidia driver sucks < 1238362464 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1238362466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do a lot of 3D stuff too yes, just not my desktop...) < 1238362493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i need drivers for virtualbox's shit video ttuff now < 1238362531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really ought to do something to that subpixel rendering pixel order nastiness; it seems it's still a no-go if you have one TFT in the normal orientation, and one rotated 90 degrees (so it's the vrgb pixel order) since GTK doesn't do per-screen settings for that stuff, even though xft maybe does perhaps I guess. < 1238362534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, indeed it doesn't translate directly to task switching < 1238362538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I just checked < 1238362547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kerneltrap.org/node/464 < 1238362565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing is that even really small text doesn't have letters spaced out and colliding into some others < 1238362568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I experienced < 1238362570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was _really_ ugly < 1238362592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes that would be ugly indeed < 1238362614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems fine now < 1238362620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I never use subpixel anyway < 1238362627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I mentioned before) < 1238362631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, maybe they put in the apple patented stuff into 9.10 < 1238362645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't they in the old one you said? < 1238362649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1238362759 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1238362930 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that, according to vmstat, I get slightly over 1000 interrupts during a typical second < 1238363119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, virtualbox drivers worked < 1238363163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err how do you break before main in gdb < 1238363172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in I want to break on the very first instruction < 1238363182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'start' without 'cont', silly. < 1238363220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I only ever used "run"... < 1238363240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're silly. < 1238363251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it seems to break at main() too < 1238363267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the documentation for start says: "Run the debugged program until the beginning of the main procedure." < 1238363276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1238363279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't help anyway < 1238363285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please some useful suggestion now < 1238363304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can. < 1238363320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1238363332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just 'step' without 'start'? < 1238363339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is not being run. < 1238363340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1238363345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what gdb says < 1238363359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can break at __libc_start_main, which is not really the first instruction ever, but at least it's pre-main. < 1238363385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm interested in first instruction ever, but at least __libc_start_main is better than nothing < 1238363401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't work < 1238363407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't break at all in fact < 1238363409 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a run that takes an instruction count, is there? < 1238363423 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :break at the actual entry point then? _start or whatever the name < 1238363434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what is the entry point? < 1238363435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Strange, since it does break here. < 1238363440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error in re-setting breakpoint 1: Junk at end of arguments. < 1238363458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it works after restarting gdb < 1238363483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still not the first one :/ < 1238363492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entry point is whatever the ELF e_entry says. I thought it was _start usually, but that did not seem to be the case. < 1238363519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could break at the entry point address; readelf -a foo | grep -i entry gives you that. Probably objdump too. < 1238363531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x403ad0 < 1238363544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1238363546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just break *0x403ad0, then. < 1238363548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work either < 1238363559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1238363560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the * < 1238363562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that < 1238363568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that works < 1238363568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's an address, not a function. < 1238363572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breakpoint 1, 0x0000000000403ad0 in _start () < 1238363595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it's in _start. I tried to "break _start", but *that* didn't work; maybe strip strips out that symbol. < 1238363618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if that happened why would it show _start there? < 1238363627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt your binary is stripped? < 1238363630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a decent WM in this VM < 1238363631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I tried it on was. < 1238363632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes break _start works < 1238363636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no -g either though < 1238363658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just happened across an actually strip-stripped binary. < 1238363662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install plan9port! < 1238363666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1238363674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah; rio isn't quite right. < 1238363688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm it is one of the better ones though < 1238363699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm. < 1238363718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_start+67 to _start+79 is all nop < 1238363720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why < 1238363720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238363726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, _start does not have to be the absolute first instruction executed, since the dynamic loader could run some _init blocks in any dynamic libs you refer to, while loading them. < 1238363729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: padding yo. < 1238363759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 bytes of it yes.. < 1238363811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit extreme, why use 13 separate nops, usually on x86 is that you try to fill using the largest fast nops < 1238363819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast nops < 1238363820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't the classical xchg ax,ax < 1238363821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1238363834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like those nops are ever executed, you know. < 1238363836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err that actually make sense < 1238363846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1238363847 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought 0x80 was nop? < 1238363851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least here there's a retq immediately before them. < 1238363857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not here < 1238363869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do non-osx OSes have an obsession with opening shit maximized? < 1238363873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, <_start+62>: add $0x8,%rsp is the line in front of them < 1238363881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a maximized window. Text is too long. It blocks out other stuff. Stop it! < 1238363884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never happened for me on linux... < 1238363895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I clicked Firefox and got a maximimzed window. < 1238363908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would I break in the first instruction in the dynamic linker then? < 1238363916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because what I want is "really really first" < 1238363920 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course it's 0x90, http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/nop-nop-nop-nop-nop < 1238363924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a retq after that line. Still, I doubt they are executed anyway, there's the callq *%rax which makes it go away. < 1238363926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, after OS hands off to user space < 1238363938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: <3 eler < 1238363948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm static maybe < 1238363950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make your own elf binary < 1238363975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this "Install/Remove" package manager gui is nice. It installs non-app stuff too. < 1238364028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The _init blocks of libs are part of the ELF loading, so I'm not quite sure where you could break; basically you'd have to catch the thing before your code is even loaded. < 1238364053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes... < 1238364082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Entry point address: 0x4001d0 < 1238364085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a break on that < 1238364090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it was never reached < 1238364093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a static binary < 1238364095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth < 1238364142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here I have a retq after that add $0x8. Really, I thought that nop-padding was just to make the next function (since what's after the nops really looks like a function prologue) start at a 16-byte offset. I don't really think __libc_start_main is going to return, anyway. < 1238364154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) help checkpoint < 1238364155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fork a duplicate process (experimental). < 1238364155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1238364168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was looking at help obscure in gdb < 1238364210 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1238364344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some reasons why "break _start" might not work *if* you have debugging symbols. (Basically it tries to be too clever and break after the function prologue, but _start doesn't have one; but if there are no debugging symbols, it just puts a breakpoint at the address of the global _start symbol.) < 1238364372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that was from a 2004 mailing-list post, they might've sensiblized that already.) < 1238364425 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1238364447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ readelf -a hello | grep -i entry < 1238364447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Entry point address: 0x4001d0 < 1238364450 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238364451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) r < 1238364451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting program: /home/arvid/tmp/hello < 1238364451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no debugging symbols found) < 1238364451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program exited with code 0360. < 1238364454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1238364464 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238364481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't ever hit < 1238364546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apparently not. That's rather strange. < 1238364579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can break on main though < 1238364587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should, after all, be the simplest case. It just does the ELF-loading and is supposed to jump to _start there. < 1238364589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up a bit later < 1238364614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dump of assembler code for function main: < 1238364614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002b4 : push %rbp < 1238364614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002b5 : mov %rsp,%rbp < 1238364614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002b8 : mov $0x0,%eax < 1238364614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002bd : leaveq < 1238364615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002be : retq < 1238364633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit useless to do those extra moves < 1238364637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "return 0; < 1238364642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mov 0? < 1238364647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no -O < 1238364649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1238364654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O3 is more sensible: < 1238364658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dump of assembler code for function main: < 1238364658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002c0 : xor %eax,%eax < 1238364658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004002c2 : retq < 1238364688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1238364702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, breaking on 0x4001d2 works... < 1238364704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here breaking at address _start+2 works even for a statically linked... < 1238364711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the second instruction in _start < 1238364714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you found it too < 1238364716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I was just saying the same thing. < 1238364761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather strange. It might be even that gdb feature of ignoring a breakpoint on the first executed instruction, to make it possible to "cont" past breakpoints without disabling them. < 1238364779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err what? < 1238364783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that work < 1238364803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cs 0x33 51 < 1238364804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ss 0x2b 43 < 1238364812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, code segment isn't null? < 1238364814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1238364817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it does. If you are at a breakpoint, and say "cont", logically it would hit that same breakpoint, since that's what it's going to execute. < 1238364832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1238364867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's even in GDB manual: "It is not necessary to delete a breakpoint to proceed past it. GDB automatically ignores breakpoints on the first instruction to be executed when you continue execution without changing the execution address." < 1238364871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001d0 <_start+0>: xor %ebp,%ebp < 1238364880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wonder what %ebp was before < 1238364881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1238364911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually doesn't gdb support patching the memory image or something it might be possible to insert a nop... < 1238364930 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1238364958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) catch start < 1238364958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch of start not yet implemented < 1238364963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I thought that might work. < 1238364969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"catch start - any processes, just after creation" < 1238364975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238364987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch of exit not yet implemented < 1238364988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1238364994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"catch of library loads not yet implemented on this platform". "Catch of thread_start not yet implemented". < 1238364999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's been lazy. < 1238365012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch of signal not yet implemented < 1238365015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this? A joke? < 1238365071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manual (I'm not sure which version this is for, since I hit it with google) just lists C++ exceptions and exec/fork/vfork for catching. < 1238365095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And load, but "This is currently only available for HP-UX." < 1238365105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1238365107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh* < 1238365111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously not a very popular feature. < 1238365135 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you want to stop so early in a process? < 1238365142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, I wanted to find out the full register and stack state when OS hands off to user space < 1238365147 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1238365153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heap too < 1238365163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume TFM isn't very helpful in this case < 1238365172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, which one? < 1238365181 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1238365185 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel docs? < 1238365190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I know all but ebp now I think < 1238365192 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec of your executable format? < 1238365208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just need to modify the binary to have a nop first in start < 1238365211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I can break on < 1238365235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those values might be rather variable, though. < 1238365238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows a machine code editor that isn't a hex editor but something more asm-y < 1238365244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, most are 0x0 it seems < 1238365251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one ELF editor, but I forgot it. < 1238365276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, http://hte.sourceforge.net/ < 1238365284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very silly-looking, based on screenshots. < 1238365290 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBUG.COM? < 1238365308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I say, retro. < 1238365314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for windows? < 1238365323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there is app-editors/hteditor here... < 1238365332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are sources. < 1238365371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web page has 2.0.13.. package manager has 2.0.14 < 1238365373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1238365386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://elfsh.segfault.net/ ? < 1238365404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually link is broken < 1238365415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was dev-util/elfsh "scripting language to modify ELF binaries" < 1238365421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hte.sourceforge.net/downloads.html has up to 2.0.16. < 1238365425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1238365450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it has an X useflag here < 1238365457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders < 1238365461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, since you just need that one nop there, I'd just use a hex editor. It's not like you're going to make a workflow of this stuff. < 1238365477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it passes the strange thing "--enable-x11-textmode" < 1238365479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to configure < 1238365518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would be useful in general though < 1238365550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wonder how to find file offset btw < 1238365556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it same? < 1238365973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is an _init in the static binary... < 1238366064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think _start is the first, anyway. And you could figure the file offset from the readelf output with a subtraction or two, or just look for those bytes. < 1238366080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using ht was easier :) < 1238366189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsp 0x7fff910b2660 0x7fff910b2660 < 1238366195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsp is stack pointer right? < 1238366200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1238366249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my elf file, entry point address 0x400190 and first program header offset 0 and VirtAddr 0x400000, which would imply that the entry point is in the file at offset 0x190. < 1238366251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, apart from rsp all seems to have fixed values. And Linux randomises stack position, so not odd. < 1238366254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, oh btw: r11 0x200 512 < 1238366257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is always that < 1238366265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise all GPR are 0 < 1238366266 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie* < 1238366275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1238366277 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1238366303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have a similar problem now, as "an" extends to andreou; it used to do AnMaster. < 1238366304 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in ur channel stealin' ur autocompletion < 1238366323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1238366341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess FireFly and andreou just have to live with it < 1238366342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1238366396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and you are right, init is called from _start, but _init calls back into _start(?) < 1238366401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dump of assembler code for function _init: < 1238366401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001b0 <_init+0>: sub $0x8,%rsp < 1238366401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001b4 <_init+4>: callq 0x4001fc <_start+44> < 1238366401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001b9 <_init+9>: callq 0x400270 <_start+160> < 1238366401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001be <_init+14>: callq 0x45e2e0 < 1238366402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001c3 <_init+19>: add $0x8,%rsp < 1238366404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00000000004001c7 <_init+23>: retq < 1238366421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1238366429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) bt < 1238366429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x00000000004001b0 in _init () < 1238366429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 0x00000000004008a4 in __libc_csu_init () < 1238366429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 0x000000000040040f in __libc_start_main () < 1238366429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 0x00000000004001f9 in _start () < 1238366430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1238366458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is stdio stuff doing in this binary, I don't even include any header < 1238366460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no stack frame for _start, since it's not a function. < 1238366486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1238366528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the st0 register in info all-registers < 1238366539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember any st registers < 1238366591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing I can think of is the x87 stack-thing, which I really am not familiar with. < 1238366617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that fpr0 and such? < 1238366624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in amd docs it is < 1238366699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1238366700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STn is the assembly mnemonic for it. Maybe. I can't really be sure. < 1238366708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238366716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you set a register in gdb btw < 1238366725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how on earth does gdb find this out I'd like to knopw < 1238366728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know* < 1238366736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debuggers are even more black magic than compilers... < 1238366741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to know register-setting. < 1238366764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess gdb on linux just uses the ptrace thing. < 1238366773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PTRACE_GETREGS to get registers and so on. < 1238366783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1238366787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still black magic < 1238366792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just now it is in kernel < 1238366797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where it belongs) < 1238366821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"set $reg = x" might work. < 1238366822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) help duel < 1238366823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evaluate Duel expressions. Duel is a very high level debugging language. < 1238366823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dl help" for help. < 1238366823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1238366825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1238366844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an embedded scripting language hidden in gdb < 1238366898 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew about that < 1238366935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "set $reg = x"; and for simd-style registers it's things like "set $xmm1.v4_int32 = {1, 2, 3, 4}"; it pretends those are structs. < 1238366958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1238366990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe more like an union in this case. < 1238367001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep st0 behaves like x87 definitely < 1238367008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmm15 {v4_float = {0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0}, v2_double = {0x0, 0x0}, v16_int8 = {0x0 }, v8_int16 = {0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, < 1238367008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0x0}, v4_int32 = {0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0}, v2_int64 = {0x0, 0x0}, uint128 = 0x00000000000000000000000000000000} < 1238367011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that you mean? < 1238367033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I guess it's more union-like, in that if you mangle one of those, all the others change too. < 1238367092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know floating point and mmx registers are layered, but there is no place showing them as mmx registers hm < 1238367104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in a useful format when debugging mmx < 1238367150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, irritating that gdb doesn't use the standard names for the registers < 1238367175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess fctrl is what amd calls fcw < 1238367184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fstat being fsw < 1238367185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1238367201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, can you dump a register as a bit pattern in gdb... < 1238367211 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :D < 1238367481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hex list in "info registers/all-registers" is probably rather close to a bit pattern. < 1238367495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives "(raw 0x00000000000000000000)" for stX regs too. < 1238367528 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1238367545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wanted it for fctrl register < 1238367552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use erl to do it < 1238367566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw how can you do it with bc? < 1238367571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said you could < 1238367574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh, "fctrl 0x37f 895"; isn't that 0x37f pretty close? 0b001101111111. < 1238367593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't work that out in my head < 1238367594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1238367594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ibase=16 < 1238367594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obase=2 < 1238367594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37F < 1238367594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1101111111 < 1238367656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With bc you just have to beware that the number you give as "obase" is given in base-ibase, so "ibase=2"+"obase=16" is not a good idea, you want "obase=16"+"ibase=2" instead. Or alternatively "ibase=2"+"obase=10000", but maybe that's slightly more difficult. < 1238367689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1238367693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which way is that word < 1238367699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense either way < 1238367706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reserved bits at 1 and some at 0? < 1238367742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait maybe it makes more sense when padded to 16 bits.. < 1238367754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do that in bc fizzie? < 1238367758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pad to 16 bits I mean < 1238367769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. Just imagine there are zeroes in front. < 1238367819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> io:format("~16.2.0B~n", [16#37f]). < 1238367819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000001101111111 < 1238367822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1238367907 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like a few tildes and hashes to make your day nicer < 1238368005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, um ~ means same as % in C format strings basically < 1238368014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 16# means 0x < 1238368019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any number in front < 1238368026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 5# to use base 5 < 1238368030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 < 1238368030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R R R Y R R P P R R P U O Z D I < 1238368030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E E E C C C C E E M M M M M M < 1238368030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S S S S S < 1238368031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238368035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't quite make sense < 1238368041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RES == reserved) < 1238368067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is one reserved bit 1? < 1238368107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpack('B16', pack('n', 0x37f)) would be a reasonable Perl version. Or alternatively sprintf "%016b", 0x37f, that's even simpler. I wonder if there's a sensible Perl REPL, though. < 1238368163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [...] I wonder if there's a sensible Perl [...]" <-- nice misquoting :D < 1238368192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way around you'd get all RES bits as 1, though? < 1238368218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my thought exactly < 1238368224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what any of those meaningful bits are, though. < 1238368252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be rather strange to start with Y set to 1 I think < 1238368260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 80287 compat... < 1238368266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y ask Y. < 1238368291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1238368315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Y is ignored even in virtual 80whatever mode it seems nowdays heh < 1238368317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bit of free-association. It's "why ask why". < 1238368364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1238368364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R R R Y R R P P R R P U O Z D I < 1238368364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E E E C C C C E E M M M M M M < 1238368364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S S S S S < 1238368364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238368370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that make mroe sense < 1238368404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1238368416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then RC and PC are are non-default values < 1238368420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a sensible Perl REPL, though. < 1238368423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -de0 < 1238368434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or devel::repl or w/e < 1238368474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1238368507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PC if 01 is invalid (thus we can't read it sub-backwards), a PC of 10 means double precision, 00 single, 11 long double < 1238368512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long double is (afaik) default < 1238368556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't make sense that way FireFly < 1238368557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1238368559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1238368561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked < 1238368616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it must be something else. < 1238368662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I checked the effects of RC, and it only matches the actual rounding mode when it is set as I read it first time < 1238368705 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238368798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, `perl -mstrict -wde0` + line editing + prepends "p " in front of all lines would make a good perl repl. < 1238368808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, prepends it in front of all non-perldebug commands. < 1238368863 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: ELPR -- the easy-looking perl repl < 1238368866 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1238368912 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coz we need moar anagrams < 1238368913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEPR; the Perl REPL whose body parts fall off. < 1238368928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's worse than oerjan < 1238369043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was freely paraphrasing a Finnish radio-comedy-parody-show-thing. They once did a parody of a car-related program, and the final words were something like "and next week, we're reviewing Fiat Lepra, the car whose parts fall off". < 1238369113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to wikipedia, leprosy doesn't even cause off-falling body parts, but... < 1238369176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically the car parts would probably fall off because the view out is so lousy you cannot avoid bumping into things < 1238369179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 9.10 seems quite nice once configured. < 1238369282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, uh < 1238369284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1238369325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was the closest analogy i could think of < 1238369359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's switching vision with touch sense < 1238369429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You see, because Tom's a nutcase," < 1238369455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, uh? < 1238369460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... night < 1238370204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :James Lyon: < 1238370205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has been employed at Microsoft since 1996 and has worked on Exchange Server, SQL Server, COM, and Microsoft Transaction Server. Most recently Jimbo was instrumental in designing, building, and shipping Windows Home Server Computer Backup. < 1238370208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1238370477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open angle bracket close angle bracket exclamation mark asterisk quote octothorpe < 1238370477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caret at-sign backtick dollar dollar hyphen < 1238370479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exclamation mark asterisk single quote dollar underscore < 1238370481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parcent asterisk open angle bracket close angle bracket octothorpe four < 1238370483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ampersand close parenthesis period period forward slash < 1238370485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bar open curly brace tilde tilde SYSTEM HALTED < 1238370715 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR there is a better pronunciation < 1238370724 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seriously, "octothorpe"? < 1238370729 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not "hash"? < 1238370751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: My pronounciation is a joke; doing it precisely to ruin the poem < 1238370755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because octothorpe is correct. < 1238370766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hash" is locale-centric. < 1238370832 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238370853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Helvetica is a Microsoft font.' < 1238370854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WA < 1238370854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T