00:00:04 ¬ is in EBCDIC but not ASCII 00:00:12 it always confused me why that was there, until I found out 00:00:31 well, why not 00:00:41 estoppel: wouldn't the fn be for changing between the main and subsidiary functions of the F-keys? 00:00:49 I don't have a fn here 00:00:51 so shrug 00:00:53 possibly though 00:00:54 hey guys debug my code for me 00:01:02 bsmntbombdood: what language is it in? 00:01:06 c 00:01:18 if you like, I'll debug by translating it into a different language, and also to a program that does something entirely different 00:01:20 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:01:25 rewrite it in scheme. then we'll talk! 00:01:29 in fact, here's a less buggy version: ,[.[-],] 00:01:48 to use ehird's favoured EOF statement whilst still preserving one of the other two options 00:02:08 pity it probably does something different, and is in the wrong language 00:02:10 ais523: that doesn't work for EOF = -1 00:02:18 bsmntbombdood: yes, as mentioned above 00:02:25 EOF = 0, EOF = -1, EOF = no change are the three most common options 00:03:02 and although you can't distinguish between them with 100% certainty, assuming random input and a program that reads all its input before doing any output you can distinguish between them with any non-100% certainty you like 00:03:10 estoppel: not really suited for scheme 00:03:16 yeah, I know 00:03:17 ;) 00:03:19 *:) 00:03:20 how can it not be? 00:03:28 that's like saying something isn't really suited for Haskell 00:03:28 ais523: it's comex's morse program 00:03:31 you can't really do that in Scheme :P 00:03:32 or that it is really suited for INTERCAL 00:05:09 what's that number game called again? 00:05:15 Nim 00:05:16 estoppel: mine's better! 00:05:20 there are two games with that name, though 00:05:23 3 5 7, your move 00:05:30 0 5 7 00:05:35 0 5 5 00:05:41 ais523: what game? 00:05:45 0 1 5 00:05:48 0 1 0 00:05:52 fuck 00:05:53 0 0 0 00:05:56 I win 00:06:00 comex: the game starts with three numbres 00:06:02 * Sgeo downloads Cobalt 00:06:02 comex: basically 00:06:04 you have 3 numbers 00:06:05 players take it in turns to reduce a number 00:06:08 you can reduce one by any amount each turn 00:06:11 but only one column per turn 00:06:15 as in, you can reduce any of them by any amount, but only one number at a time 00:06:17 the person who removes the last loses 00:06:20 if you say 0 0 0, you lose, and you can't go negative 00:06:40 so it's pearls before swine 00:06:47 or whatever 00:06:49 that game 00:06:51 I've never heard that name before 00:06:58 but it's relatively well known 00:07:03 * Pearls Before Swine (game), a puzzle/logic game using the Nim format 00:07:05 I'm pretty good at it, but oerjan is just as good as I am 00:07:19 estoppel: you just looked it up on Wikipedia? 00:07:23 yes 00:07:40 * Sgeo listens to kerlo's tune 00:07:44 anyway, what self-respecting typist can do without ¬? <-- where? 00:07:44 anyway I am going to intuitively progressively optimize a nim solver. or something. 00:07:48 I can't find it 00:07:51 first time: random moves 00:07:52 on my keyboards 00:07:54 then: brute force 00:07:56 then we'll see. 00:08:18 protip: brute force is pretty good 00:08:38 AnMaster: it's shift-` on this keyboard 00:08:43 err 00:08:48 I think they left it off most of the non-UK ones, though, they have no sense of style 00:08:58 I should expand my tune. 00:09:13 ais523, on this keyboard shift-' is `. That is ' as in the dead key creating é 00:09:29 what if you hold both shift keys? 00:09:33 here, ` is to the left of 1 00:09:35 hah 00:09:51 ais523, §1234567890+' 00:09:56 and then backspace 00:09:57 * ais523 makes a mental note to mark jokes when AnMaster's in here, and to a lesser extent ehird because he never gets metahumour 00:10:17 also I got the both shift key joke 00:10:24 even without the marker 00:10:45 Dear Windows: Please never block things again. Love, Sgeo 00:10:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Swedish.2FFinnish 00:10:58 ais523, ^ 00:11:03 Sgeo: what's it blocking? 00:11:11 IO? 00:11:12 The files from OpenCobalt 00:11:17 and how? 00:11:25 opencobalt? 00:11:28 uh uh 00:11:31 I should also find a MID editor that is capable of playing MIDs. 00:11:43 kerlo: here on Linux I use Rosegarden 00:11:52 although it needs Timidity or something like that to be able to do the actual playing 00:11:57 oh 00:12:00 not related to cobol 00:12:03 Timidity, eh? 00:12:07 wth 00:12:12 is the insert key 00:12:15 doing above backspace 00:12:20 on this compact keyboard 00:12:25 when I was back on Windows I used Magix Notation, but that's a for-pay commercial app, although a very cheap one 00:12:34 AnMaster: insert's above backspace on my laptop 00:12:43 above is a good place when to the right of backspace wouldn't fit on the laptop 00:12:45 ais523, I hate non-full size keyboard 00:12:46 s 00:12:54 they are harder to type on too 00:13:58 I need full size to be able to type properly 00:14:10 and keys that properly go down 00:14:11 full size as in full number of keys, or full size as in not scaled down? 00:14:17 ais523, both! 00:14:22 my laptop keys go down properly and are the normal size, there just aren't as many of them 00:14:42 ais523, I mean like the clicky keyboards 00:14:50 http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/08/2155216&from=rss Slashdot have started talking about Wolfram Alpha 00:14:56 let's see what snarky jokes they make of it 00:15:21 ais523: hmm 00:15:32 let's play ONE COLUMN NIM 00:15:33 10 00:15:44 1 00:15:52 bollocks. 00:15:52 0 00:15:59 ais523: what about infinite column nim 00:16:00 not a particularly useful game, really... 00:16:14 and infinite column would only be fun if only finitely many were nonzero 00:16:23 in which case it's equivalent to finite column nim 00:16:39 otherwise the game would necessarily take infinite time 00:17:15 5 5 00:17:19 Hardcore nim. :P 00:17:24 estoppel: that's a won position for you 00:17:29 and you can probably win from it 00:17:31 Oh. 00:17:32 4 5 00:17:34 4 4 00:17:41 4 1 00:17:44 0 1 00:17:57 f 00:17:59 0 0 00:17:59 the strategy with two columns is not very difficult 00:18:18 make them equal, then copy your opponent until you have a chance to set it to 0 1 00:20:50 Here's how it works. Publishing stuff makes sense. Face to face conversations and e-mail conversations make sense. Conversations in the form of articles replying to other articles make sense some of the time. Comment thread conversations are futile. Special case: Usenet conversations are futile. If they are moderated, they are futile and (almost) polite. 00:21:51 Brute force Nim: Select a column number and decrement number, optimizing the number of times you win when playing against yourself 00:21:51 what a stupid piece of crap 00:22:06 Now let's see if that finishes before the universe overs. 00:25:12 grumble, why doesn't (f '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) -> ((1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 4) (2 5) (2 6) (3 4) (3 5) (3 6)) come with Scheme? 00:25:16 or at least srfi-1 00:25:38 hm 00:25:53 ais523, what game? 00:26:04 NIM ALREADY 00:26:11 why do so many people ask that... 00:26:17 backlog, sheesh 00:26:18 NIM? 00:26:23 Nim. 00:26:38 AnMaster: do you know the rules? 00:26:47 no 00:26:51 never heard of the game 00:26:53 estoppel: clearly you need to mix Scheme with Mathematica's standard library 00:26:58 heh 00:26:59 AnMaster: it's what my Enigma puzzle was modelling 00:27:04 ah 00:27:15 you have three (or more) numbers, which are nonnegative integers 00:27:19 players take turns reducing a number 00:27:23 you can reduce a number as far as you like 00:27:26 but only one number on your turn 00:27:30 if you reduce them all to 0, you lose 00:29:03 Are there any free Mathematica-like tools? 00:29:09 yes 00:29:11 maxima, SAGE, ... 00:29:28 'Nim has been mathematically solved for any number of initial heaps and objects; that is, there is an easily-calculated way to determine which player will win and what winning moves are open to that player.' 00:29:35 oh, so even though it's solved there's absolutely no skill element at all? 00:29:37 lame lame lam 00:29:37 e 00:30:24 hey ais523 00:30:28 enigma level pack 2 00:30:28 the solution is absolutely beautiful, though 00:30:29 level 16 00:30:33 estoppel: what about it? 00:30:37 it's nim 00:30:45 * estoppel awaits "AAARGH!!" 00:30:48 about keyboards 00:31:00 * AnMaster uploads image 00:31:03 estoppel: what, "Beam04"? 00:31:06 err 00:31:08 there's Enignimm which is level 12 00:31:10 it's meant to be called Enignimm 00:31:13 but that's the other nim 00:31:13 ooops 00:31:15 and not nearly as fun 00:31:17 ah 00:31:24 ais523, ehird: http://omploader.org/vMWNraw 00:31:27 the keyboard 00:31:35 keyboards 00:31:36 even 00:31:37 whatever 00:31:40 I don't care about your keyboards 00:31:47 why should I be interested...? 00:31:48 ais523, I find the black one extremely hard to use 00:33:58 estoppel, why should I care about the keyboard you considered getting? 00:34:20 you shouldn't, I was remarking after you talked about the compact keyboard 00:34:31 your showing of your keyboards had no relevance beyond the tenuous 'keyboard' conversation tract 00:35:02 you are just saying that because it was me that talked about it 00:35:33 yes, I am in a world conspiracy to say as many bad things about you as possible, even if they're true 00:35:36 ais523: what _is_ this other nim you keep mentioning? 00:35:36 horrible 00:36:03 oerjan: like ordinary nim, but with only one number, and you can only reduce it by at most 3 at a time 00:36:12 oh 00:36:16 it is very very horrible, and any competent mathematician can solve it in their head in about 10 seconds 00:36:26 indeed 00:36:32 one of my acquaintances uses it to win bets against drunk people 00:36:50 now if you have several heaps like that, it gets a bit more interesting 00:37:05 yes, but not much 00:37:14 do you know about Sprague-Grundy analysis? 00:37:24 although as i recall, it's simpler than ordinary nim because some heap sizes are equivalent 00:37:25 it's basically a method of solving games by proving them equivalent to regular nim 00:37:27 yes 00:37:44 and the limited-nim game is equivalent to regular nim with heaps no bigger than 2 00:37:58 except that the last-player-loses vs. last-player-wins thing messes up the analysis 00:38:00 ugh, my combinations function is really ugly 00:38:26 doesn't it always 00:38:34 yes 00:38:48 Sprague-Grundy only really works properly if 0 0 0 is a win, and that's not the way nim's normally played 00:41:22 > (combinations '(a b) '(c d)) 00:41:22 '((a c) (b c) (a d) (b d)) 00:41:24 \m/ 00:41:37 what does \m/ mean, anyway? 00:41:42 metal hand 00:41:48 and what does that mean? 00:41:58 \ , , / , 00:42:07 where , = finger | last , = thumb | \ = raised finger 00:42:20 I mean, what does a metal hand indicate, apart from the literal definition? 00:42:40 "awesome"? :P 00:43:00 hmm, it's vulgar in mediterranean countries 00:43:01 apparently 00:44:05 http://pastie.org/private/zreddamkpevzsxtxjz4w 00:44:09 vomit worthy code 00:44:32 I remember writing that function in OCaml 00:44:49 and it was purely functional, and didn't look at all like that 00:46:32 you're welcome to supply a better algorithm :P 00:46:54 yay, I have to define my own func (upto 5) -> (0 1 2 3 4) 00:48:19 grrrrrr 00:48:22 I can't even use combinations 00:48:29 since my second argument depends on the value of the first 00:51:28 so irritating. 00:55:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:04:07 Huh, I apparently have Timidity already. 01:04:58 now you just need Paranoia, Despair and Panic 01:06:08 I prefer Apprehension to Paranoia and Dread to Despair. I'm waiting for Neurosis to reach version 1.0 so I can replace Panic with it. 01:07:21 i would recommend Psychosis, although it is not quite stable 01:07:39 kerlo, are you talking about software? 01:07:51 Timidity and (cd)Paranoia exists... 01:07:57 AnMaster: no, just pretending. 01:08:07 Except when I mentioned Timidity. 01:08:09 I had to restart client 01:08:12 so lost scrollback 01:08:32 (bouncer still connected though 01:08:34 ) 01:09:14 kerlo, also timidity is crap 01:09:16 the software that is 01:09:20 it crashes all the time 01:09:31 I prefer using hardware midi 01:09:34 way more stable 01:20:03 ehird: Here's one "combinations", which isn't very pretty either, but at least it isn't all for-each set!y: http://pastie.org/private/ar5balcakbcw9mkmpq2a 01:20:13 oh, that's nicer 01:20:28 * estoppel considers buying one of the nice new mac pros with the nehalem processors 01:20:34 (I sleeps.) 01:26:35 Where's the abomination against using rafb.net in the topic? 01:27:16 -!- estoppel has changed nick to ehird. 01:38:33 Oh, right, the topic-lock anyway. 01:38:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t. 02:02:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:10:48 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:47:28 who wants to learn lojban with me 02:48:26 your mom. 02:50:56 unlikely. 02:51:16 * Sgeo pokes kerlo 02:51:20 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 02:51:24 kerlo's a lojban person 03:00:49 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 03:08:04 instead of learning lojban, why not just stick a rusty fork in your eye? 03:12:04 all the better to see you with 03:34:23 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:19:56 Ello. 04:20:32 lament: because sticking a rusty fork in my eye wouldn't teach me anything. 04:21:30 -!- Dewi has joined. 04:31:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:33:00 it might teach you the importance of staying current with your tetanus shots 04:33:20 kerlo: it will teach you a lot. 05:11:48 G'night all 05:17:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:35:54 -!- asiekierk has joined. 07:35:57 BAM! 07:36:01 ... 07:36:03 oh no 07:36:06 +t is off 07:36:14 and my auto-topic-change script is still working 07:36:17 NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC 07:36:58 Nice weather outside, isn't it? 07:37:26 ...What? 07:37:35 Well, quite, if not for that it's 7:35 AM 07:37:40 well, 7:37 actually 07:37:42 hah! 07:37:51 I changed the topic! 07:37:54 Well 07:37:55 I mean 07:37:59 the topic above 07:38:02 the one in green 07:38:13 You know, the one with divulgations, apples and words 07:39:03 If you change it, onoz we're doomed 07:39:11 [[or someone kicks me, cuz i don't have autorejoin]] 07:39:22 I hopefully made it so it ignores me 07:39:30 so there's no "I change topic and it changes topic" 07:39:33 except if I change the nick 07:39:34 so nah 07:41:27 morning 07:41:30 morning 07:42:20 Good morning, and welcome to #esoteric. 07:44:24 oklopol: I'm bored 07:44:32 Should i broadcast my desktop again 07:44:33 -!- lament has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC. 07:44:40 I told you :(* 07:44:41 :( 07:44:43 well 07:44:45 it doesn't work on me 07:44:46 so 07:44:56 *whew* 07:45:17 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off). 07:45:26 ohai 07:45:30 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off, then you can). 07:45:32 hai 07:45:39 http://pastie.org/private/qb2tg9bvpnsv2rw2q0ljgg <<< wtf is this, why do i have broken c in my browser? 07:45:56 i don't know 07:46:44 ehird: http://pastie.org/private/qb2tg9bvpnsv2rw2q0ljgg This may or may not work, YMMV. <<< doesn't look like it will, not that i know the context 07:47:02 don't drink and code 07:47:10 if you drink too much, it becomes quite a mess 07:47:36 should've guessed it was from here 07:47:56 i haven't tried drinking and coding much yet 07:48:05 i've decided to learn that at some point tho 07:48:21 hmm 07:48:25 exam in 10 minutes 07:48:47 i know of someone who coded on LSD 07:48:49 should probably get out of the wc and head to uni 07:48:56 probably. 07:49:11 *sweepin* 07:50:42 okay, i'm taking this baby with me, so going offline. 07:50:48 for some undefined meaning of baby 07:50:49 -> 07:51:21 "how is babby formed? how girl get pragnent?" 07:51:39 "they need to way instate mother> who murder thier babbys." 07:51:53 "once, a woman in ar" 07:52:02 "i am truely sorry for your lots." 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:03:11 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:11 ... 08:03:19 Why doesn't teh internetz work for m---wait, it does 08:09:20 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:20:50 -!- tombom has joined. 08:26:10 Uh... why does this firefox, when I try to middle-mouse-paste in oklopol's ehird-quote-URL, pop up a dialog saying: "ASSERT: *** Search: _installLocation: engine has no file!" and then a 11-item stack-trace. 08:26:33 Okay, same for entering any URL in the location bar. 08:27:13 I have a hunch they've sneakily been updating the browser installation on these workstations, and now it's a needs-a-restart confused. 08:48:09 -!- jix has joined. 09:04:39 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:11:36 -!- asiekierk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:16:18 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:21:02 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 10:11:59 -!- asiekierk has joined. 10:12:01 Wow 10:12:12 I think I just made a Videocrypt encoder/decoder 10:12:14 but i'm not sure 10:12:21 I would need a Videocrypt decoder supporting a seed 10:15:39 But interline correlation (the VirtualDub VC decoder) works, albeit the same as with 99% of other VC decryptions 10:19:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 10:45:54 You know 10:46:09 Checkerboard+Videocrypt+Interline Decoding=Cafe Wall 12:18:48 -!- Jophish has joined. 12:31:21 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:51:56 modifying AsieCrypt to be more unique 12:52:01 by adding color encryption 12:59:58 and variable line swapping 13:25:20 Hmm 13:34:23 anyone here 14:05:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:13:28 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:13:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:13:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 15:06:23 -!- jix has joined. 15:15:24 -!- ais523 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 15:15:59 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:24:57 -!- ehird has left (?). 15:25:01 -!- ehird has joined. 15:31:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:34:14 -!- ehird has left (?). 15:34:16 -!- ehird has joined. 15:34:24 Hi, ais523. 15:34:28 Uh, you are there right? 15:34:59 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:12:23 maybe he's not 16:12:25 but i am 16:12:25 sadly 16:12:40 well you are almost ais 16:14:44 haha 16:14:46 yeah, right 16:16:30 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:17:21 Ehird: I've ordered one of those Arduino microcontrollers. 16:17:27 Cool :-) 16:17:37 Let us know how it goes! 16:17:47 If I don't enjoy programming it, I know who to blame :-P 16:17:53 ;_; 16:17:55 :P 16:18:47 I'm just trying to learn how to program it before it arrives 16:33:01 -!- MigoMipo has changed nick to ZigoZipo. 16:35:58 -!- ZireFly has joined. 16:36:16 * ehird zwats ZigoZipo ----ZZZZ 16:36:18 err 16:36:20 ZireFly. 16:36:31 = FireFly 16:36:49 ZigoZipo = MigoMipo wanted me to change my nick to something that begins with a Z 16:37:34 ===> how is babby formed? 16:37:34 Infant 16:37:36 In basic English usage, an infant is defined as a human child at the youngest stage of life, specifically before they can walk and generally before the age of one (see also child and adolescent). 16:37:39 The term "infant" derives from the Latin word in-fans, meaning "unable to speak." There is no exact definition for infancy. "Infant" is also a legal term with the meaning of minor; that is, any child under the age of legal adulthood. 16:37:43 Source: Wikipedia 16:37:45 — http://start.csail.mit.edu/ 16:39:16 -!- ZigoZipo has left (?). 16:40:18 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:42:06 -!- ZireFly has changed nick to FireFly. 16:44:37 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:56:50 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 16:57:59 -!- Hiato has joined. 17:00:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:00:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:01:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:05:34 -!- Dewi has joined. 18:04:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:09:43 ehird: god that thing sucks. 18:09:46 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:18:50 hi ais523 18:19:18 hi 18:19:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:20:23 [[to compose a bunch of procedures that each take 20 arguments 18:20:23 and return 20 results. ]] 18:20:27 "so don't do that" 18:20:32 hey, why'rn't I estoppel? 18:20:35 -!- ehird has changed nick to estoppel. 18:23:35 anyway, my intensive module today nearly made my head explode 18:23:44 I have problems even trying to think of it, so I'll translate into programming terms 18:23:47 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:23:51 as a sort of extended metaphor 18:24:01 imagine you have a nice, clean, and well-understood interpreted programming language 18:24:07 I was going to choose Python as an example 18:24:20 but unfortunately it's whitespace-sensitive and that ruins the example, so I'll use Ruby instead 18:24:29 now, Ruby's not all that fast compared to some programming languages 18:24:41 and people have written slow Ruby programs for things that didn't need to work fast, and they've been fine 18:24:57 yep 18:24:59 now, suppose you want to write in Ruby, it's the only language you can use 18:25:03 but you need to write fast 18:25:11 so you optimise your Ruby to run quickly 18:25:11 * estoppel scratch head 18:25:19 hahah 18:25:20 and you find that your program errors every now and then 18:25:22 ... 18:25:29 and it turns out that the interp's getting confused by whitespace 18:25:32 it does more or less the right thing 18:25:39 but if it tries to process the whitespace too quickly 18:25:45 ... excuse me, what 18:25:49 it misinterprets it as Whitespace and the Whitespace gets mixed in with the regular program 18:25:52 ... i mean ... what ... 18:25:55 estoppel: it gets better, I haven't finished yet 18:26:20 now, this isn't really much of a problem for you, as you're an esoprogrammer 18:26:32 in fact, you find you can make your code even better by exploiting the Whitespace code to do useful things 18:26:46 and in fact for very fast programs you want to write huge parts of it entirely in Whitespace 18:26:56 .. 18:27:05 ok, what was the ACTUAL thing about 18:27:09 (you consider this normal, interps are bound to malfunction a bit if you run them too fast due to not being perfect) 18:27:24 but you find that with the whitespace running even faster, if you have exactly the right sequence 18:27:31 omg, i made a video encoder 18:27:34 not supporting video 18:27:34 you run commands that redefine syntax, or logic, or whatever 18:27:37 but bitmap 18:27:37 s 18:27:46 as in, encoder, er encrypter 18:27:51 so you're changing the syntax of Whitespace dynamically, and making ANDs into ORs, or whatever 18:28:01 the head-explode moment was when I realised this also affected the Ruby it was embedded around 18:28:19 making ands into ors, and other things that made no sense in Ruby 18:28:37 (and as a result, your programs now only run at one exact speed, if you run them slightly faster or slower they fail) 18:29:32 ok, what was the ACTUAL thing about 18:29:46 estoppel: microwave-frequency electronics 18:29:54 think of ordinary electronics as the ruby 18:30:04 and wires which shouldn't be doing anything but being wires as the whitespaec 18:30:06 *whitespace 18:30:18 My mother, attempting to use an old one button Mac mouse: "But, which button do I press?" 18:30:27 the left one, obviously 18:42:41 -!- impomatic has quit ("mov.i #1,1"). 18:44:47 Oh god, now I'm going to wait forever for my Asiecrypt Encoder to finish encoding a 2-and-a-half-minute-YouTube-movie 18:44:47 well, nearly 3-minute, even 18:45:02 what does it encode it into? 18:45:19 jmp #0, <-3 18:45:36 well, i mean encrypt 18:45:39 3521 frames 18:45:41 into AsieCrypt 18:46:09 or VideoCrypt+color swap every other line+replace random parts of 2 lines 120*25 (or 240*25) times 18:46:23 actually, the color swap is the longest 18:46:25 and it takes a seed 18:46:38 why are you doing this, anyway? 18:46:51 it sounds rather like security by obscurity 18:46:54 is it reversible? 18:46:57 Yes 18:46:59 tested 18:47:01 XD 18:47:02 reversible 18:47:03 VideoCrypt is 18:47:07 Random replacing is... 18:47:14 and a NOT bitwise command is too 18:47:16 oh asiekierk, you are the living proof of poe's law. 18:47:21 poe's law? 18:47:22 poe's law? 18:47:49 >_< 18:47:51 google's law. 18:47:58 http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law 18:48:09 estoppel: that's a link, can you explain in English? 18:48:09 s/fundamentalism/ridiculous programming tasks/ 18:48:19 ais523: no, I do not exist to support your allergy to the web 18:48:20 it did about 1000 frames 18:48:38 estoppel: then don't expect me to understand what you're saying, if you're unwilling to explain 18:48:40 you'll be pleased to know that the target of the link is english embedded in HTML 18:48:40 and they DO look like a jumbled mess 18:48:52 also, you're the one asking the question, it's your wish to find out, not mine 18:49:25 Well, the Asiecrypt Encoder is also (accidentally) a Videocrypt encoder 18:49:34 and a Videocrypt decoder too (if you know the seed) 18:50:07 estoppel: I'm only asking because I don't understand what you said... 18:50:17 and isn't the usual purpose of communication to, you know, convey information? 18:50:17 I gave you a link to information on it, http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law 18:50:26 it's not my problem that you refuse to follow links to get information 18:51:10 ~1650 frames 18:51:11 but that's the Web! 18:51:16 ... so? 18:51:21 the web is a web of information. 18:51:51 not nowadays, nowadays it's mostly a web of porn, spam, and adverts 18:52:07 if I linked you to one of them, I assure you I would note as such. 18:52:47 well, most websites have adverts nowadays 18:52:59 so...? use adblock? 18:53:02 lots of people talk about how things like adblock are a bad idea because they deprive the sites of advertising revenue 18:53:04 Is there an use for the low-speed version of Asiecrypt (all enabled) except premium content NBTV? 18:53:13 a business model based on advertising is shit. 18:53:19 and it strikes me that not visiting them is an even better way to deprive them of advertising revenue 18:53:46 2250 frames 18:53:51 1500 more! 18:53:54 then you miss out on their content 18:54:00 loss for you, no great shakes to anyone else 18:54:23 estoppel: why doesn't everyone act as I do? The Web would become so much better more or less overnight 18:54:35 Oh, and impomatic has Asiecrypt 18:54:36 Because some of us don't mind advertisements. 18:54:40 ((a buggy version, but still)) 18:54:47 And a vast majority of internet users see porn as a plus., 18:54:50 neither do I, actually, I just mentally ignore them if adblock doesn't catch them 18:55:08 and porn is fine if you're looking for it, but tends not to be particularly informative 18:55:09 So all that is left is spam. Everything has spam. Apart from Gopher. 18:55:16 And that's why I personally linked it. 18:55:22 So that you know I was linking to relevant information. 18:55:23 2610 frames 18:55:30 only 900 more, then joining and Youtubing 18:56:47 2950... 18:58:08 3260... 18:58:19 1234... 18:58:30 2428... 18:58:34 9001 18:58:37 2789... 18:58:40 ...Deewiant, you know that 1234 was one of my Seeds 18:58:46 2001aspaceoddyssey 18:58:46 3000... 18:58:46 for testing 18:58:52 how rare 18:58:54 42... (hint hint) 18:59:07 3500... 18:59:18 it did it 18:59:56 it did did it 19:00:04 I must find out what the hell of an algorithm do I use cuz I don't remember :( 19:01:05 Uh-oh 19:01:13 seems I did something irreversible and now i'm screwed 19:01:39 asiekierk: don't you have the original? 19:01:45 yes i do 19:01:49 but i must find out what is irreversible 19:02:21 actually 19:02:21 all seems to be 19:02:22 O_o 19:02:29 fail 19:02:47 So it must be a problem with my batch procedure-a-thon 19:03:20 Or i may know why 19:03:26 i didn't set the seed AFAIK 19:04:57 something is terribly wrong 19:05:33 asiekierk: I still fail to see the advantage of what you're doing in the first place 19:05:43 i do too 19:05:48 but i'm just doing it for kicks 19:07:33 Well 19:07:39 I can batch encode AND batch decode 19:07:43 I can encode AND decode 19:07:49 but i can't batch encode AND decode 19:07:54 so something's terribly wrong with my algorithms 19:08:58 yay, it's the common engineering problem: A, B, and C each work, A and B work together, B and C work together, but the combined A+B+C system fails for no apparent reason 19:09:26 well, not really 19:09:39 cuz it's A, B, C and D. A and B work, C and D work, but any other combinations fail 19:09:39 A+B, C+D, and A+D in this case 19:09:50 any other combinations in this case :P 19:09:54 not just A+D 19:09:57 oh 19:10:07 Well the only other one is B+C 19:10:14 I assumed you could encode files individually, then batch-decode the lot, from what you suggested 19:10:20 Well 19:10:23 I can batch-encode too 19:10:24 I must have misparsed what you were talking about 19:10:25 so why bother 19:10:37 I also assumed you meant you could batch-encode then individually decode 19:10:42 The only thing is that I seem to have the same algorithms not cooperating with each other 19:10:47 but I think I CAN see the problem 19:10:57 basically 19:11:00 when encoding normally 19:11:05 after lineswap, it resets the seed 19:11:09 when batch-encoding, it does NOT 19:11:10 -!- jix_ has quit ("..."). 19:11:34 And i'm going to add a feature while I'm at it 19:13:28 or not 19:13:33 it's too painful and not really paying out 19:21:52 http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/evolving-faster-haskell-programs/ 19:22:08 AnMaster would like that, for C 19:25:08 -!- asiekierk has changed nick to asie[away]. 19:26:41 estoppel: is that going to be a new permanent nick for you? 19:27:05 Possibly. Not sure :P 19:27:27 it's a good real word for a nick 19:28:52 Yes, it sounds like it means something deep. 19:29:16 Unless you know what it means :-P 19:29:25 well, it's still a relatively interesting thing if you know what it means 19:29:43 basically, if you convince someone you don't plan to sue them, or act as if you won't 19:29:53 then if you do sue them you're unlikely to get very much in damages 19:30:15 common law is so funky :-P 19:30:29 B Nomic is saner than common law 19:37:15 hmm... it seems that e4 vs. d4 can inspire a Holy War on chess channels 19:37:22 c4! 19:37:47 Or f4 19:39:08 ais523: strange that it would 19:39:15 it should be pretty easy to resolve 19:39:19 how? 19:39:20 lament: You must be a d4 player 19:39:22 it's like emacs vs. vi 19:39:26 ais523: by setting up a match 19:39:34 lament: what, one match? 19:39:37 two matches 19:39:38 d4 players vs e4 players, one game? 19:39:41 although a worldwide e4 vs. d4 match might be good 19:39:49 organised via one of the big chess websites 19:40:45 Was it Kasparov that that one collaborative Internet match was played against? 19:40:50 ais523: but what exactly are they arguing about, then 19:40:58 which is better, obviously 19:41:03 better how? 19:41:12 someone in there's claiming that white playing d4 is effectively giving black an advantage, it's that bad 19:41:16 More likely to lead to victory? 19:41:20 and I'm trying to come to the defence of d4 19:41:27 and yes, that's a typical definition of better in chess 19:42:13 I.e. of all the possible games that can be played from that point on, more lead to a white win or draw than to a black win 19:44:17 can't you just look at a database of existing professional games? 19:45:38 they do that in Go 19:55:59 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:59:28 > (define (halt-and-catch-fire) 19:59:28 (/ 1 0) 19:59:30 (halt-and-catch-fire)) 19:59:38 The preferred error-signalling procedure for all purposes. 19:59:40 why is that in an infinite loop? 19:59:58 ais523: in case the interpreter neglects to signal the division by zero and continues execution. 20:00:00 Because most machines don't catch fire from just dividing by zero, in my experience 20:00:29 it's the program catching fire, not the system :D 20:00:40 Oh, that's boring 20:00:56 I've been on systems which could be set on fire in software 20:01:03 ais523: awesome, which? 20:01:06 in theory, at least, in practice there normally wasn't enough current flowing 20:01:09 estoppel: microcontrollers 20:01:19 Desktop machines can be set on fire in software 20:01:25 actually, (/ 1 0) doesn't have to error in Scheme. 20:01:29 It can be +inf.0 20:01:49 (scheme-report-environment -1) is specified to fail, though. 20:01:50 Oh, I assumed you intended it to not error 20:02:03 it doesn't error in most langs, nowadays, at least if interpreted as floating point division 20:02:10 > (define (wrong msg) 20:02:10 (display "** ERROR ** ") 20:02:11 (display msg) 20:02:13 oh, except C, (/ 1 0) errors pretty badly in C 20:02:13 (newline) 20:02:15 (scheme-report-environment -1)) 20:02:16 due to not being valid syntax 20:02:17 ; no values returned 20:02:19 > (wrong "Division by elephant") 20:02:21 ** ERROR ** Division by elephant 20:02:23 Error: no such Scheme report environment 20:02:25 (&error) 20:02:27 Er, flood. SOrry. 20:02:46 ais523: Are there languages in which it would error out when interpreted as a floating point division? 20:03:16 C programs are certainly allowed to send signals on FP division by zero, just generally don't 20:03:18 > (wrong "no such Scheme report environment") 20:03:18 ** ERROR ** no such Scheme report environment 20:03:20 Error: no such Scheme report environment 20:04:19 does Scheme have exceptions? 20:04:24 or do you simulate them by hand using call/cc? 20:04:30 No. (R6RS isn't scheme, so I'll disregard it.) 20:04:44 You can simulate them; many implementations provide an isomorphic mechanism. 20:04:50 They're not very Scheme, though. 20:04:56 I know, simulating exceptions is pretty easy when you have c 20:05:06 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-34/srfi-34.html 20:05:11 "Exception Handling for Programs". 20:05:45 Conditions, more elegant than Exceptions since, iirc, the handlers aren't call/cc'ed, just called: 20:05:48 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-35/srfi-35.html 20:05:50 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-36/srfi-36.html 20:06:10 Scheme48 uses SRFI-36 conditions to signal parse errors 20:06:18 and the like 20:06:31 although tbh a jmp_buf stack is enough for handling exceptions, you don't need anything nearly as advanced as call/cc 20:06:37 why the slash, anyway? 20:06:50 It stands for "with". 20:07:03 not "per"? not "over"? 20:07:16 It's short for call-with-current-continuation, because it calls the provided procedure with the current continuation. 20:07:21 BTW, call/cc is a non-standard abbreviation, only call-with-current-continuation is specified by R5RS. 20:07:28 You can do (define call/cc call-with-current-continuation), ofc. 20:07:52 yes 20:08:33 ais523: As a sidenote, yes, the opposite of call-with-current-continuation exists ("Run this procedure with this other procedure as its continuation") 20:08:50 (call-with-values f k) runs (f) with k as the continuation. 20:08:54 So, e.g.: 20:09:03 (call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) +) ;=> 6 20:09:48 It was intended just to handle the N-return-values (instead of just 1) system added in R5RS, as you can see, but it works perfectly fine as call-with-this-continuation. 20:12:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:14:25 ehird, i miss ya old nick 20:17:14 -!- asie[away] has changed nick to asiekierk. 20:17:29 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words, and here are the logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off, then you can). 20:18:29 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:18:42 i warned you 20:19:00 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | DON'T CHANGE THE TOPIC WHILE ASIEKIERKA IS ON. 20:19:01 -!- oerjan has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | Darn estoppel beat me. 20:19:08 Yes, I don't give a shit about your irritating I-own-the-topic-and-it-is-my-personal-playground-of-hilarity stuff that you have carried out for months and months. 20:19:10 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:19:20 months? 20:19:34 oerjan: He's done it ever since he first entered here, as far as I can tell. 20:19:36 -!- ais523 has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | asiekierka owns the topic, not asiekeierk. 20:19:40 I TOLD YOU 20:19:42 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:19:44 Go away. 20:19:44 -!- Slereah_ has set topic: Topic now property of Slereah | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:19:47 ok 20:19:48 -!- asiekierk has left (?). 20:19:54 ... Well, that worked. 20:19:55 -!- asiekierk has joined. 20:19:56 is that why +t was on recently? 20:20:00 oerjan: Yes 20:20:00 yes 20:20:03 I will be cruel but fair 20:20:03 someone put +t on now 20:20:05 no 20:20:06 fizzie set it because asiekierk was being irritating. 20:20:07 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:20:09 i can change it myself 20:20:11 just wait 20:20:13 fizzie: Can we have some +t? 20:20:25 we don't need to 20:20:29 except if you change the topic 20:20:50 Au contraire, you are proof we need it. 20:20:53 what's the problem with the topic? 20:21:01 If someone else changes it 20:21:05 lament: asiekierk thinks he owns it and keeps spamming it with pointless rubbish whenever we change it. 20:21:13 well, I just have a script 20:21:14 Recommended solution: temporary +t. It worked yesterday. 20:21:17 Well 20:21:18 asiekierk: Turn your script off 20:21:21 ... 20:21:25 I would need to restart mIRC 20:21:26 and I'm too lazy 20:21:31 Restart mIRC. 20:21:48 -!- ais523 has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | http://127.0.0.1/../../etc/passwd. 20:21:55 ok 20:21:57 restarting mirc 20:22:01 change the topic in the meanwhile 20:22:03 -!- asiekierk has quit. 20:22:08 ais523: omg it has your passwords in 20:22:09 hahahaha idiot 20:22:13 i 0wnz ur boxen 20:22:28 -!- asiekierk has joined. 20:22:32 Ohai 20:22:36 estoppel: really? it's a 404 for me 20:22:47 Does "turning your script off" imply "now I'll do it manually", asiekierk? 20:22:50 I have a terrible feeling it does. 20:22:50 Now try to change the topic so I can know whether or not the script problem is fixed 20:22:53 asiekierk: i still don't get it, what happens when we change the topic? 20:22:55 I see. 20:22:57 what does the script do? 20:22:58 lament: he puts it back because he owns it 20:23:02 i don't 20:23:04 -!- ais523 has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | http://127.0.0.1:8080/../../etc/passwd. 20:23:04 Aww. You always need to change the topic... :( 20:23:04 because it's -t 20:23:08 lol 20:23:14 that's my script v2 20:23:31 Oh wait 20:23:34 gotta fix the spelling 20:23:38 * estoppel drums fingers. 20:23:54 ok, done 20:23:58 will restart later 20:24:16 You mean you have a new topic changing script? 20:24:19 no 20:24:25 I mean I have a stupid reply on topic change script 20:24:29 that works on everyone but me 20:24:35 as in 20:24:35 Aww. You always need to change the topic... :( 20:24:41 but in slight variation form 20:24:45 Wonderful, let's see if I can flood your client off the network. 20:24:52 hmm... I just had a brilliant idea 20:24:52 Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( 20:24:54 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 20:24:54 Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( 20:25:12 Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( 20:25:13 Wow... I don't need to restart mIRC! 20:25:16 Hmm. 20:25:18 Rather too slow. 20:25:20 Oh shit. 20:25:22 -!- estoppel has left (?). 20:25:25 it doesn't work with Google, though, let me find a less well-organised website 20:25:28 It is the severe internet here 20:25:45 -!- estoppel has joined. 20:26:23 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | That's right, i DO look like an idiot!. 20:26:32 yay, it works apart from the date 20:26:36 Wait, wait, *look* like? 20:26:37 Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( 20:26:42 asiekierk, asiekierk. I'm afraid it's rather more severe than that. 20:26:51 ais523: what is it? 20:26:56 -!- asiekierk has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | That's right, i AM an idiot!. 20:26:57 asiekierk: you realize that with a script like that you'd get banned from a bunch of channels. 20:27:03 it only works on #esoteric 20:27:04 :P 20:27:13 and if you want me to remove it 20:27:14 say so 20:27:17 As in 20:27:20 He already did. 20:27:20 estoppel: http://pastebin.ca/1356726 20:27:26 You removed a script and replaced it with an equally irritating one. 20:27:28 replace the time with the current time, and send it to port 80 on esolangs.org 20:27:33 I've written an HTTP Kimian quine 20:27:40 Now try, I think I disabled the script 20:27:41 ais523: hahaha 20:28:10 I wanted to do it with Google, but their error page is too complex 20:28:18 can you try now 20:28:24 i think i disabled the script-o 20:28:32 but I thought "I know, I'll write an HTTP Kimian quine" 20:28:44 -!- asiekierk has changed nick to asie[away]. 20:29:19 someone other than estoppel: care about my quine 20:29:21 -!- estoppel has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | If there is an asiekierka in the building, please evacuate all brains. Thanks!. 20:29:48 ais523: ** Memory exhausted trying to allocate 6 billion objects 20:29:51 Dumping core 20:29:53 $ 20:30:05 heh 20:30:22 a bit more than 6 billion nowadays, isn't it? 20:30:26 Probably. 20:30:26 besides, that was anycast not broadcast 20:30:35 Prologiverse doesn't know that. 20:30:43 "The human population on Earth is greater than 6.7 billion, as of February, 2009" 20:30:45 It's also greater than 3. 20:30:48 How useful. 20:31:00 "As of 2008, humans are listed as a species of least concern for extinction by the International Union for Conservation of Nature." 20:31:20 you could always try asking wolfram alpha 20:31:32 although the input box is currently just an image of an input box, so it won't be very useful 20:31:41 ais523: ask it for me, since you clearly have access :P 20:31:48 just imagine the answer, duh 20:31:49 also, an image of a text box? do they have any idea how unportable that is/ 20:32:01 considering the box is completely styled... 20:32:09 exactly, even more unportable 20:32:14 not really 20:32:17 how will something like that work in w3m 20:32:24 how will images work in w3m 20:32:31 images work just fine in w3m 20:32:37 oh, right, framebuffer thingy. 20:32:40 although admittedly they aren't embedded in the page 20:32:59 not framebuffer, it spawns an external image viewer program if you follow a link to one or choose the option to view one 20:33:59 also, ais523, do you have any ideas on how to utilize 12gb of ram 20:34:20 allocating 6 billion objects? 20:34:32 actually seeing what Vista is like in a reasonable length of time? 20:34:44 memory-caching the whole of Wikipedia apart from the images? 20:35:00 haha 20:35:04 wow, I really could do that last one 20:35:05 splitting it into 12000 VMs each of which has a megabyte of memory, each running DOS? 20:35:07 that's just <3 20:35:19 i mean, it wouldn't even slow anything down much 20:35:32 no, obviously a memory cache would speed it up 20:35:44 i mean 20:35:44 t 20:35:46 anything else on the system 20:35:50 Ahh, gotta love functions where the type signature takes up more lines than the definition 20:36:00 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:36:16 Deewiant: I think they should create a Haskell-like like language which deduces the definition from the type signature, rather than the other way round 20:36:33 ais523: What if it's ambiguous? 20:36:44 oh, it usually will be 20:36:53 find some solution 20:36:59 it exists 20:37:00 Pick one at random? 20:37:03 at the moment I'm wondering about "do the simplest thing that could possibly work", plus monads 20:37:07 /msg lambdabot @djinn signature 20:37:10 Djinn :) does that 20:37:22 -!- asie[away] has set topic: Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | If there is an asiekierka in the building, please evacuate all intelligence. Thanks!. 20:37:24 Djinn is somewhat crap though 20:37:31 It can't do a lot of things though, yeah 20:37:40 Can't handle recursive data types 20:37:47 Which is its most vexing limitation 20:37:57 No lists, for instance. 20:38:00 The idea to overload "bitwise exclusive or" to mean "power" is just stupid. I wonder where they get these ideas. It's as if someone decided to overload "bitwise left shift" to mean "print to file". 20:38:36 ais523: Surely that's not from the IAQ? 20:38:45 sorry, FQA 20:38:56 it's easy to get those muddled 20:38:57 Thought so :-) 20:39:05 besides, the IAQ is for C 20:39:20 There's a comp.lang.c++ IAQ 20:39:25 the FQA is trying to be simultaneously useful and sarcastic, whereas the IAQ is just a joke 20:41:15 Could you stop with the topic stuff? And what does this script thing do? 20:42:18 wait, what 20:42:21 there's no script 20:42:46 the script is a lie 20:45:17 "Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet " 20:45:19 — Mac Pro specs. 20:45:35 I love datasheets 20:46:05 "Storage temperature: -40° to 116° F (-40° to 47° C) " 20:46:13 Aww but I was gonna cryogenically preserve my mac... 20:46:26 To be with me when I wake up in 30,000AD. 20:47:18 -!- calamari has joined. 20:47:29 I've put a GPU in a freezer a couple of times, to cool it down 20:47:58 Yow, the mac pro is 18.7 kg. 20:48:02 That's like almost as heavy as me. 20:48:22 you weigh a lot more than that, I hope 20:48:28 That was a joke. 20:48:38 But I'm ridiculously light, something like 30kg. 20:49:54 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:52:53 Maybe I could make an in-memory markov chain of wikipedia with those 12gb. 20:53:02 Because fungot isn't quite fast enough! 20:53:03 estoppel: psykotic every pixel is sacred. just me, or i managed to get nothing? how about making a language? 20:53:10 estoppel: what, the whole wikipedia? 20:53:17 not just talk? 20:53:18 Sure. 20:53:19 go for it 20:53:25 besides, how did you end up with 12GB anyway 20:53:38 "Having 12GB" is a boxed future value. 20:53:50 I'm justifying my dirty capitalist tendencies, see. 20:53:55 get yourself 56GB, then install qmail 20:54:00 haha 20:54:04 without setting resource limits 20:54:17 the mobo only supports up to 32GB I think 20:55:47 Also, having your backup drive the same size as your main drive is a bit silly, isn't it. 20:56:06 why, should it be bigger or smaller? 20:56:29 Smaller, so you can use your drive and have more than one backup at a time. 20:56:37 Of course, nobody actually uses up all their drive. 20:57:17 I've got close on a couple of computers which were basically full anyway 20:57:28 on the one that ran Windows 3.1, I was saving things on floppies to save hard disk space 20:57:37 Right, but we're talking 1TB here. 20:57:49 I have a ton of crap I don't need on here and only 120GB used 20:58:03 well, find your terabyte's worth of floppies, and use your hard drive to back them up 20:58:10 no no no 20:58:13 terabyte tapes 20:58:13 duh 20:58:47 -!- olsner has joined. 20:58:53 ais523: also, I don't think having ~1000 floppies is _that_ odd... 20:59:02 well, I only had 40 or so 20:59:13 besides, a TB of floppies is more like 500000 20:59:23 err, right 20:59:24 1000 would be a gb 20:59:26 stupid me 20:59:33 floppies store 2 MB unformatted 20:59:40 1.44 MB with the typical DOS/Windows format 20:59:53 although Linux floppy disk formats store up to about 1.7 MB, nobody uses them 21:00:00 because nobody uses floppy disks nowadays 21:03:19 -!- Hiato has quit (Connection timed out). 21:05:32 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 21:05:38 -!- asie[away] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:06:11 Except for those random Linux-on-a-floppy distros... 21:06:19 well, yes 21:06:29 but they're hardly formatted with the Linux-specific formats 21:06:35 as that would be a chicken-and-egg problem 21:06:50 making them bootable would probably be tricky, if at all possible 21:06:55 dd and rawrite can write such disk images just fine. 21:07:14 And the BIOS can load the boot sector quite fine. 21:07:20 s/fine/well/ 21:07:55 * pikhq made a Linux-on-a-floppy distro out of boredom a bit before starting on Brainfuck 21:07:56 the problem is that the boot sector isn't separated from the others the way it usually is 21:09:00 Granted, the boot sector in question is the first 512 bytes of a pre-2.6 Linux kernel... Still, the BIOS can handle the 1.7MB floppies without any trouble. 21:09:26 Boot sectors can just be 'jmp somewherewithmoreroom', no? 21:09:47 No. 21:09:54 Oh. 21:10:10 When the boot sector is run, the only things in memory are the boot sector itself and the BIOS. 21:10:21 And the BIOS is only in memory because it's ROM. 21:10:41 Well, okay, then, "readrestoffloppydisk, jmp somewherewithmoreroom" 21:11:14 Generally "read some bytes from the floppy disk, jmp rightafterthebootsector". 21:11:53 pikhq: but rightafterthebootsector is in the "wrong" place on a Linux-formatted disk 21:12:41 ais523: The Linux boot sector, IIRC, starts running the floppy disk manually rather quickly. 21:12:43 anyway, I invented a sorting algorithm a couple of nights ago that I haven't come across before 21:12:47 but may have been invented independently 21:12:59 it involves insertion sort, but into a deterministic skiplist rather than an array 21:13:17 I think it's always n log n, but slower than mergesort in terms of number of comparisons despite being the same order 21:13:35 Something like, right after loading the very first track... 21:14:17 (the first track is still in the same place; Linux gets more space out of those floppies by packing the tracks in closer) 21:14:28 "deterministic skiplist"? 21:14:33 the second track is in a different place 21:14:48 oerjan: skiplists normally use some form of randomisation to do their skippy pointers 21:14:59 it's possible to do it deterministically with the same computational order 21:15:06 although slower whilst maintaining the same order 21:15:47 well i don't know skiplists, but insertion sort into a balanced tree is n log n afair 21:16:18 balanced trees and skiplists are kind-of similar 21:16:22 but how can you not know skiplists? 21:16:45 Easily; I only encountered them a few months ago, I think, but I've known of trees for years 21:17:26 [[ There are no guarantees in any Scheme standard for broken Scheme code 21:17:26 to "break properly" in any sense of the word. (This is one reason why 21:17:27 I, as a working programmer, do not use Scheme anymore.) ]] 21:17:29 ^ what 21:17:31 i don't actually have _that_ much CS education 21:17:38 you must break CORRECTLY! 21:17:48 estoppel: that sort of programmer goes on to invent langs like OCaml 21:17:59 just one semester with data structures, 19 years ago or so 21:18:18 (two semesters with various) 21:18:24 when you program for a living, things like breaking correctly are pretty important 21:18:53 oerjan: you don't need education 21:19:03 although admittedly skiplists are clever enough to be unlikely to be invented by accident 21:19:08 lament: but that doesn't even make sense 21:19:24 well, take microsoft silverlight 21:19:27 oerjan: You have a math education, and informal knowledge of computers. That alone is enough to do quite well in CS... 21:19:29 and a standard trying to regulate handling things that don't meet its specification of a document/program is preposterous 21:19:39 s/computers/computer programming/ 21:19:40 sometimes when you feed it incorrect stuff, it simply shows a blank page 21:19:53 no thrown exception, no nothing, no indication of where the error may be. 21:19:53 it's all implementation issues 21:20:01 a standard mandating this would be idiotic 21:20:15 ais523: I also don't know skiplists. 21:20:25 Granted, I'm a freshman CS student, so... 21:20:40 estoppel: it reminds me of people getting annoyed that non-ANSI-compliant implementations of C-like languages were breaking the C standard by defining STDC 21:20:56 hah 21:21:07 there is something very wrong with that logic 21:21:26 ais523: haha 21:22:50 What's wrong with that logic? 21:23:05 FAQ: You can't, and you usually shouldn't. 21:23:16 Deewiant: it's wrong on at least two levels 21:23:31 as for explaining exactly what's wrong, I'm tired and don't feel like going through the arguments 21:23:36 maybe someone else will 21:27:42 brb 21:28:11 biarb 21:30:47 Yay for documentation 21:30:49 1 files changed, 441 insertions(+), 208 deletions(-) 21:33:04 -!- FireyFly has joined. 21:33:34 rhubarb 21:33:54 * ais523 catches oerjan in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ 21:34:15 I have decided that the salient feature of the butterfly net is that it is unexpected 21:34:28 and here i was being nice and not swatting FireyFly ;´( 21:34:40 :D 21:34:42 don't worry, it's a loving careful butterfly net 21:34:44 Hm 21:34:59 so, I'm going to try to use acovea to optimize the morse code thing 21:35:10 http://www.coyotegulch.com/products/acovea/ 21:35:18 not that it will probably have much effect 21:35:21 what's acovea? 21:35:59 ais523: i just read http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/838pv/evolving_faster_haskell_programs/ which uses it 21:36:53 oerjan: guess where I found it 21:37:05 comex: i already did :D 21:41:20 * comex is trying to paste between one vim and another vim 21:41:34 yes, I should open the files in the same vim but what if I don't want to 21:41:38 konsole doesn't let me copy it :x 21:41:49 :set paste? 21:42:04 and control-shift-c / control-shift-v are usual GUI copy/paste for console programs 21:47:17 yeah, it didn't work properly 21:47:19 now it does 21:47:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:47:40 set paste's a good trick to know in vim, it stops it trying to be too clever when pasting stuff in 21:48:13 ais523: is it possible for me to have vim share stuff between two instances? 21:48:22 or otherwise work with multiple files, say, across screens 21:48:36 vim generally isn't very good with multiple-process stuff 21:48:52 in fact, that's what persuaded its main maintainer to switch to using Emacs 21:49:08 http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Copy_and_paste_between_Vim_instances <-- ack that's ugly 21:49:09 for the specific case you mention, though, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way 21:50:05 There's that clientserver thing, which can then be scripted. But it only works with a $DISPLAY. 21:50:22 (Since it communicates via X messages.) 21:51:18 comex: the * register seems to be mentioned too 21:51:27 as shared between vim instances, and presumably everything else 21:51:29 does that work? 21:51:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 21:52:07 ow 21:52:13 whenever I type "~ it beeps 21:52:17 and is sad 21:52:19 ok, that's interesting 21:52:24 ais523: anyway, I invented a sorting algorithm a couple of nights ago that I haven't come across before <<< i don't know if this has a name, but, as oerjan hinted, the idea is well-known, basically you can do that with any data structure that is a function from indices to values, and can supply you with predecessors and inserting-in-the-middle both in O(log n) time. 21:52:25 why "~ in particular? what's that meant to do? 21:52:31 did that come through? 21:52:41 oklopol: yep, i was trying to work out what the advantages and disadvantages were 21:52:57 the advantage, I think, is that you get good computational orders for almost all common operations 21:53:12 insert, insert-sorted, delete, append, nth are all O(log n) 21:53:14 i met skiplists in high school, and considered them trivial, but didn't hear their name; have heard about them many times since, and never bothered to check how they work, but now that you said something about it being weird oerjan didn't know it 21:53:17 i had to check them out 21:53:18 iterate is O(n) 21:53:29 but, as already mentioned, i did know them 21:53:50 my vim doesn't have x11, wtf 21:53:53 I like balanced skiplists, even if they're slower 21:54:00 comex: well, obviously, you need gvim 21:54:08 although IMO, gvim's an oxymoron waiting to happen 21:54:13 as it misses the main point behind vim 21:54:34 data structures tend to be a bit too easy to visualize to be all that stimulating 21:54:42 oklopol: solved Nim yet, by the way? 21:54:51 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 21:54:56 ais523: I don't want gvim, I want a terminal 21:55:02 if you can manage it for yourself, and I see no reason why you shouldn't, and you spot the pattern, prepared to be stunned 21:55:06 comex: an X11 terminal? 21:55:15 I want konsole 21:55:17 :p 21:55:22 * ais523 tries to visualise a vim specifically designed for xterm/konsole/whatever 21:55:22 but I want vim with +X11 21:55:25 which debian apparently doesn't have 21:55:34 does anyone else? 21:55:38 probably 21:55:39 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 21:55:53 % apt-get source vim 21:56:09 sudo apt-get build-dep vim 21:56:20 that step will save you a lot of trouble 21:56:25 oh, and build-essential if you don't have it already 21:56:29 vim-gtk is very +X11. 21:56:39 (The Debian package with that name, that is.) 21:59:13 Might of course be more than you need; it does enable +perl, +python, +ruby and +tcl while it's at it. 21:59:14 ais523: sadly, no. i did fix the error, but i didn't really have time to look into it today, i dedicated this day for doing absolutely nothing, because i'm a bit concerned about my mental health because of all this exam flood :P 21:59:31 not that i'm having any issues really, i just feel like i should 21:59:35 that's a great thing to dedicate a day for 21:59:39 yes 21:59:41 oh, no need 21:59:42 comex: gvim? 21:59:49 yeah, what you said 21:59:51 It's a separate package on occasion 21:59:58 now that I have gvim installed, 22:00:03 I can just run vim and get console but +X!! 22:00:04 *X11 22:00:10 Amazing 22:00:17 heh 22:01:01 Deewiant: It's called vim-gtk on Debian, but there's a "gvim" virtual-package for it, implemented by the various GUIfied versions of vim; vim-lesstif, vim-gtk, vim-gnome. 22:01:24 see 22:01:27 Debian go to a lot of trouble to make the package manager Do The Right Thing 22:01:33 I don't want to use gvim because 22:01:34 even though the result normally ends up rather confusing 22:01:44 I'll get used to the gui 22:01:52 which is (1) slower and (2) not going to work over ssh 22:02:08 makes sense 22:02:15 although I use non-GUI vim more often than GUI vim 22:02:21 working over ssh is vi's killer feature, really 22:02:23 I prefer the GUI myself 22:02:31 Not sure why, though 22:02:50 although a vi feature not a vim feature, most computers have neither vim nor emacs installed, but most ssh-intoable computers have vi 22:02:51 I have all the menus and scrollbars and whatnot disabled, apart from the tab bar 22:02:59 Yes, but all GUI-enabled Vim binaries can run in a terminal. If you install vim-gtk (for example) you just get gvim and vim symlinks into the vim.gtk binary. 22:03:31 ais523: the computers I generally want to ssh into all have vim 22:03:48 does normish have vim? 22:03:50 fizzie: yes, I noticed that above :u 22:04:11 ais523: well, it would be cool if I could get vim to open files remotely like kate 22:04:22 Yes, and I mentioned vim-gtk before Deewiant, yet you're all "what you said". 22:04:43 fizzie: I wasn't paying attention but rather busy compiling vim 22:04:46 before I realized I didn't need to 22:04:48 :p 22:05:02 ais523: in many circumstances (slow connection!!) editing remotely is a bad idea 22:05:07 hmm.. apparently normish does have vim 22:05:20 emacs has TRAMP to open files remotely, I'm not sure if there's a vi equivalent 22:05:33 hey look 22:05:35 http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/08/31/vim-tip-of-the-week-august-31-2007-remote-editing/ 22:05:36 you can do it 22:05:38 that's ridiculous 22:05:39 :p 22:05:40 although the real reason not to edit remotely is because estoppel tends to reboot the system you're editing on at the time 22:08:12 I wish there was a cross-app way to do that :/ 22:08:23 there's FUSE, kioslaves, and vim has its own thing 22:08:31 where the fuck is a standard when you need it 22:08:35 emacs has its own thing too 22:08:48 KDE has a standard way of its own, that's standard among KDE apps 22:08:51 that's how Kate manages it 22:09:00 Yes, that's kioslaves 22:10:37 % vim scp://xemocne@lyokoscan.net/send_slr 22:10:39 yay, it works 22:10:41 :u 22:10:43 There's also gnomevfs for that. 22:10:50 All Gnome apps do it with it. 22:11:09 is there like a book or something i could read so i'd understand even half of what you guys talk about? 22:11:25 oklopol: possibly 22:11:36 playing around with a Linux-based or UNIX-based system should teach it to you pretty quickly 22:11:38 would be cool if I could just use standard unix commands remotely 22:11:49 comex: !ssh 22:11:53 good point 22:11:54 well ! newline ssh 22:11:58 or is it without the newline 22:12:02 I can never remember 22:12:04 but that's the vim way 22:12:08 but ftp and such 22:12:12 why reimplement everything your shell can already do? 22:12:15 FUSE is a nice hack but has some problems such as 22:12:20 I didn't mean from vim 22:12:25 ais523: well ubuntu taught me nothing at least 22:12:27 And Vim's version is actually rather based on external commands; it handles dav with cadaver, ftp with ftp, http with "curl -o"/"wget -q -O"/"fetch -o", scp with "scp -q" and so on. 22:12:33 such as no programs expecting a very slow filesystem 22:12:40 oklopol: well, it's designed to not have to use the console 22:12:48 i used the console all the time 22:12:52 fizzie: great, that's just what I want. what I don't want is having to copy temporary files manually 22:12:55 so how did you not come across things like vi 22:13:01 ais523: well i did 22:13:07 I've used nano up to now :u 22:13:12 that's the 30% i do understand :P 22:13:12 so why don't you understand half of what we talk about? 22:13:19 what in particular? 22:13:24 21:12 ais523: why reimplement everything your shell can already do? 22:13:25 probably a one-sentence explanation would be enough 22:13:28 that's vim's business 22:13:34 well dunno, i wasn't being very exact. 22:13:36 estoppel: what, reimplementing things? 22:13:39 yep. 22:13:43 vim isn't very vi 22:13:45 I thought its whole point was to defer to pre-existing programs, or is that vi? 22:13:46 http://www.wana.at/vimshell/ 22:13:48 whoa 22:13:53 Point. 22:14:14 I like ed, am I the only one? 22:14:17 vimshell is a patch to Vim sources, though. 22:14:21 I mean, I actually use ed sometimes. 22:14:22 estoppel: presumably vi syntax highlighting would work by piping the program through an external syntax highlighter, then before save piping it through something to strip out the ansi colour code? 22:14:24 And like it. 22:14:32 estoppel: I use sed for editing on occasion 22:14:34 though I don't need that unless I want to edit and shell at the same time 22:14:37 ...yo dawg 22:14:44 I've done pretty much "shell in a vim window" with vim and the perl-scripting add-on, to run MATLAB/Octave in a vim window so I don't need MATLAB's horrible GUI. 22:14:45 ais523: The correct way is to realise that buffer display does not have to be what you edit 22:14:56 and have two layers: the screen display, and the buffer display, and a function mapping between the two 22:15:00 by the way, can anyone here think of a way to combine yo dawg with I herd you liek mudkips? 22:15:04 they seem to work perfectly together 22:15:05 Thus, the screen display is piped through a highliter, but the buffer display is the file 22:15:15 Yo dawg, I herd you liek mudkips so... 22:15:23 I'm just not sure how to finish the sentence 22:15:24 ais523: "Yo dawg, I herd u liek mudkips, so I put a mudkip in your mudkip so you can breed while you... update your pokedex." 22:15:32 Excuse the fail. 22:15:32 ais523: I hereby submit "complete that sentence" as an Enigma puzzle 22:15:37 comex: <3 22:15:42 comex: you need to submit an answer too 22:15:42 ais523: hm i have a vague impression i've seen something like that on reddit 22:15:47 in fact, the correct answer 22:15:59 oerjan: Or on xkcd? http://xkcd.com/550/ 22:16:14 that xkcd sucks 22:16:17 it's not funny 22:16:27 s/that //;s/$/ most of the time/ 22:16:39 no something closer to what ais523 said 22:16:45 http://www.flickr.com/photos/brownpau/2459879511/ 22:17:07 Ah, here we go 22:17:09 http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/7qyc6/a_brilliantly_subtle_yo_dawg/c075d8z 22:17:20 i hate the one in the title of that submission 22:17:25 the one in the comments had no text 22:17:27 it was deliciously zen 22:18:20 http://i42.tinypic.com/29w1h1e.jpg 22:19:10 I didn't realise that yo dawg and I accidentally the whole internet were current at the same time 22:19:24 Deewiant: ok but i hadn't seen that one 22:19:42 ais523: it's i accidentally the noun 22:19:43 not the internet 22:19:49 isn't the accidentally thing from like the 60's 22:20:04 http://www.steike.com/code/useless/zip-file-quine/' 22:20:32 estoppel: ah, pity 22:20:38 the whole internet seems to fit it pretty well 22:20:39 the internet no longer a noun! film at 11 22:22:14 okay i didn't like the new xkcd, but probably you've just brainwashed me 22:22:27 * oerjan still thinks steike.com is funny as "steike" means something like "darn" in his dialect 22:23:39 darn.com isn't funny 22:23:46 * oerjan swiftly removes oklopol's brain and drops it in the laundry 22:24:01 nor hitto.com 22:24:21 * ais523 switfly retrieves oklopol's brain and puts it in a museum 22:24:34 Deewiant: hitto is the finnish equivalent? 22:25:18 oerjan: s/the/a/ 22:25:23 or something like it, anyway 22:25:54 I think 'hemmetti' would be closer but there's no hemmetti.com 22:26:52 oh hell.no 22:28:46 * oerjan swats ais523's switfly -----### 22:29:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mq_96Entks 22:31:40 has there already been a language where the current instruction set depends on the previous instructions executed (or possibly listed in the source code) up to that point? 22:32:06 I made one of thos 22:32:06 e 22:32:13 it's not very interesting 22:32:15 just a trivial cypher 22:32:18 calamari: malbolge...? 22:32:37 isn't the instruction set always the same? 22:32:37 * oerjan picks up an e from the floor 22:33:53 (for malbolge) 22:34:03 oklopol: apply now and you can be an oklopole! 22:34:15 calamari: the instruction executed is cyphered 22:34:36 right but theset of available instuctions remains constant 22:34:40 oh wait you have no brain at the moment 22:34:43 *the set 22:35:41 braaaaains 22:35:48 * oerjan paints the e pink and drops it off at the museum beside oklopol's brain 22:36:00 the museum of what exactly? 22:36:14 now you can try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD 22:36:16 oklopol: brilliant brains that need preserving but were somehow dropped in the laundry 22:36:18 as far as I know, it's just a matter of figuring out the encoding, but you could always execute each instruction at each set.. right? 22:37:06 but if there were multiple sets of instructions, perhaps not all complete, that were chosen deterministically based somehow on the past.. it might be kinda interesting 22:37:09 ais523: is that a big museum? 22:37:26 probably not 22:37:42 if done properly the code would be easy to read but hard to write 22:38:05 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:38:07 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:39:08 * oerjan sneaks the pink e and the brain out of the museum and return them to oklopol 22:39:25 *returns 22:40:20 -!- oklopol has changed nick to oklopole. 22:40:36 * oerjan hangs up a lampshade for better light /====\ 22:41:10 so 22:41:19 a few days ago 22:41:20 i realized 22:41:24 calamari: and perhaps also depending on data 22:41:31 now that I think on it more, it'd have to be based on execution, because otherwise you could write macros 22:41:35 that your space key is broken 22:41:38 i want to study gene biology, physics and psychology 22:41:48 am i mad? 22:41:49 oklopole + psychology? 22:41:54 yes! :D 22:41:57 you aren't mad, but you'll drive other people mad that way 22:42:02 or sane, if you so prefer, but mad's more fun 22:42:09 oklopole: yes 22:43:27 oklopology 22:44:02 i probably wouldn't enjoy actually studying psychology at uni, it seems somewhat trivial, but i would love to know what exactly psychology knows 22:44:07 it's oklopological! 22:44:15 psychology is um... mostly bullshit. 22:44:18 the other two are just actually interesting 22:44:39 estoppel: yeah, i doubt it is, although i agree. 22:44:44 lol wat 22:44:52 that made no sense? 22:44:59 oklopole: me too 22:45:05 oklopole: if you find a good textbook, tell me! 22:45:08 lament: you too what? 22:45:15 i too would like to know psychology 22:45:18 ah. 22:45:40 unfortunately i think the way to do that is to subscribe to their journals and read their shitty papers, i certainly don't want to do that 22:45:53 but a nice up-to-date textbook would be nice 22:46:06 a friend of mine started studying psychology now that he's doing his phd and doesn't have much cs courses, got me a bit interested too 22:47:05 http://qoid.us/screenshots/morse.png <-- why does gvim have such a god-awful default coor scheme 22:47:07 yeah raeding papers probably wouldn't be worth it, especially as i'm pretty sure psychology at least gets a lot of bullshit, even though i doubt the actual subject is characterized by it. 22:47:13 *reading 22:47:29 comex: that's for a black background 22:47:38 you have to :set background=white or something 22:47:39 estoppel: it's gvim 22:47:40 it should know 22:47:41 to get it looking ok 22:47:44 it doesn't 22:48:27 maybe it's just my eyes 22:48:39 no, that is awful 22:48:41 set the bg right 22:48:44 more like *whole subject 22:48:46 even bg=light had some too-bright colors imo 22:48:53 which I changed 22:49:04 ^ other reason not to use remote vim 22:58:46 At some point I tried to use gvim because it can do more colours; then I just downloaded inkpot.vim to utilize the rxvt-unicode 88-color mode (and the screen/xterm 256-color mode) properly. 22:59:21 I guess many people might not like those colours either, but I'm odd like that; they look something like http://zem.fi/~fis/termcolors.png 23:11:01 -!- tombom has quit (No route to host). 23:14:32 -!- jix has joined. 23:25:24 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523__. 23:25:37 -!- ais523__ has changed nick to ais523. 23:25:54 * oerjan watches the ais523 time anomaly 23:30:15 What does it mean to have a gigabit ethernet controller with a 10/100 megabit physical layer device? 23:30:45 black magic. 23:31:18 there's sorcery afoot 23:31:22 I mean, doesn't that mean that it can still only transfer at most 100 Mbit/s through the port? 23:31:37 In which case what's the point of having a gigabit controller? 23:31:43 I say bottle, you say neck! Bottle! 23:31:52 >.> 23:32:13 wow, it's getting close to time for me to gtfo 23:33:19 that sounds like bad timing 23:33:40 since you just started talking 23:36:16 -!- kerlobot has joined. 23:36:28 SL 23:36:40 GP 23:36:45 $eval (SL) 23:36:58 If at first you don't succeed... 23:37:00 %eval (SL) 23:37:01 (SL) 23:38:07 %eval (+ 2 2) 23:38:07 (+ 2 2) 23:38:15 ok, so it isn't running Lisp 23:38:18 %eval Hello, world! 23:38:19 Syntax error 23:38:20 oerjan: I meant with regards to work 23:38:34 I recommend Church numerals, or whatever you call those things these days. 23:38:59 House of Worship numerals? 23:39:16 %show 23:39:31 Thereby showing that I don't remember how this thing works. 23:39:40 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 23:40:03 %what 23:40:04 input 23:40:07 Great. 23:40:11 %eval (lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda) 23:40:12 Syntax error 23:40:24 You need more parentheses. 23:40:32 oh 23:40:39 %eval ((lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda)) 23:40:39 ((lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda)) 23:40:53 %eval ((lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda))) 23:40:53 ((lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda))) 23:40:57 Wow. 23:41:07 %eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 23:41:08 ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 23:41:15 Oh, it's not called lambda. 23:41:17 kerlobot doesn't seem to evaluate anything 23:41:21 just spout it back 23:41:21 It's called l. 23:41:29 it's a lazy evalbot 23:41:36 %eval ((l (x) (x x)) (l (y) (y y))) 23:41:37 ((IT IS LOOP SORRY) (l (y) (y y))) 23:41:41 %eval ((l (l) (l l)) (l (l) (l l))) 23:41:41 ((IT IS LOOP SORRY) (l (l) (l l))) 23:42:00 ugh, that reminds me of Mathematica error messages 23:42:13 Does it? 23:42:13 they just get embedded into the expression instead of a result and it keeps on evaluating 23:42:16 Ah. 23:42:43 %temp (l (2) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) 23:42:52 %reset 23:42:57 %temp ((l (2) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) input) 23:43:00 %eval 2 23:43:01 [l (f x) (f (f x))] 23:43:15 %eval (2 2 2) 23:43:15 [l (f x) (f (f x))] 23:43:24 * kerlo blinks 23:43:34 %reset 23:43:42 (2 2) should be 4 in Church numerals 23:43:47 %eval (2 2) 23:43:48 (2 2) 23:44:18 %reset 23:44:20 %temp ((l (2) input) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) 23:44:24 %eval 2 23:44:24 [l (f x) (f (f x))] 23:44:30 %eval (2 2 2) 23:44:31 ([l (f x) (f (f x))] ((l (f x) (f (f x))) (l ((l (f x) (f (f x))) x) ((l (f x) (f (f x))) ((l (f x) (f (f x))) x))))) 23:44:35 Wow. 23:44:42 What is that? 23:44:56 Want me to curry it? 23:44:59 %reset 23:45:18 %temp ((l (2) input) (l (f) (l (x) (f (f x))))) 23:45:24 %eval 2 23:45:24 [l (f) (l (x) (f (f x)))] 23:45:32 %eval ((2 f) x) 23:45:33 (f (f x)) 23:45:36 %eval (((2 2) f) x) 23:45:37 ((l (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f)) (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f) (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f) ((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f)))) x) 23:45:41 Aaa. 23:45:53 %eval (((2 2) F) X) 23:45:54 ((X (X X)) ((((l (f) (l (X) (f (f X)))) X) X) (((l (f) (l (X) (f (f X)))) X) X))) 23:46:00 Impressive, no? 23:46:14 Still, what the heck is it doing? 23:46:41 -!- kerlobot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:48:32 * kerlo attempts to run it on Normish, but just gets a bunch of "that file doesn't exist" 23:49:09 -bash: ./sillylisp: No such file or directory 23:49:23 The thing is, though, ./sillylisp exists. 23:49:29 That means it's wrong. 23:49:31 The executable, that is. 23:49:34 Run it under 32-bit emulation. 23:49:46 How do I do that? 23:49:55 Uh. 23:49:59 I assume it's chmodded executable 23:50:05 The utility is called... 23:50:12 what does "file ./sillylisp" do? 23:50:15 kerlo: linux32. 23:50:19 ais523: no, it is 64 bit v s 32 bit 23:50:24 I know because I've had the 100% same problem on a slicehost 23:50:31 sillylisp: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped 23:50:34 see? 23:50:36 install linux32 23:50:37 why are you trying to port binaries between linux systems anyway? 23:50:38 So yeah, that's the problem, I guess. 23:50:40 then "linux32 ./sillylisp" 23:50:47 ais523: because I can't compile it on the target machine. 23:50:50 ah, ok 23:50:56 what about crosscompiling? 23:51:04 I don't know how to do that. 23:51:31 crosscompilation is great fun, although not everything's set up to support it 23:51:34 Huh. "linux32: ./sillylisp: No such file or directory" 23:51:36 that reminds me, I must finish gcc-bf some time 23:54:42 (a CPlusPlusProgrammer has all the fields of a Programmer, plus a couple of new, orthogonal members, such as headAgainstTheWallBangingFrequency). 23:59:14 Here's a proposal for the next C++ standard: let's define two keywords, __0 and __1. With a token sequence composed of these two keywords, we can express anything (actually, one keyword is enough, but that's just too verbose).