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05:06:47 <kerlo> I want to run kerlobot on Normish.
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06:42:47 <oklopol> ais523: it implies that [ is not a bracket ||| ais523: until someone writes the matching ] ||| ais523: and that's a ridiculous interpretation <<< s/ridiculous/awesome/
06:44:00 <oklopol> ehird: I think they're more of an authority than you... <<< what did you mean by this? that they have the authority to decide [ isn't a bracket?
06:45:06 <oklopol> kerlo: If a normal person, upon being given the sentence "The (quick) brown fox jumps over the (lazy) dog" and an instruction to determine how many words are between parentheses, might say "two" rather than "seven", then the good interpretation is acceptable. <<< i'd assume "in parenthesis" if you'd meant the words in parens, would say 5 too
06:49:00 <oklopol> because i don't know the cutoff, and because things i say matter, i'm going to resay half of that latter sentence.
06:49:01 <oklopol> , might say "two" rather than "seven", then the good interpretation is acceptable. <<< i'd assume "in parenthesis" if you'd meant the words in parens, would say 5 too
06:49:22 <oklopol> and then the o's again, obviously
06:55:03 <oklopol> also if someone then said "no no not between the paren groups, i mean between the actual parenthesis characters", i'd be like oh it's a trick, let's see, oh, 7, right.
06:56:09 <oklopol> But, you might not understand how to write a program in FORTAVM if you aren't a real programmer, but someone can make other graphical interfaces as well to program it if you want to. <<< and the rest of the sentence makes it clear what he means
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08:37:11 <oklopol> how's that working for you
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10:07:01 <AnMaster> oklopol, <oklopol> ais523: it implies that [ is not a bracket ||| ais523: until someone writes the matching ] ||| ais523: and that's a ridiculous interpretation <<< s/ridiculous/awesome/ <-- I can't find that in my logs, when is it from?
11:16:35 <MizardX> around Wed Feb 11 00:00 2009 CET
12:46:31 <oklopol> MizardX: why would you interpret that correctly, when you could just as well misinterpret it to ask when my message was sent?
12:48:50 <MizardX> Since he copied it, he shuld know from where. What is not apperant is when the quoted lines where sent.
12:50:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
12:50:53 <MizardX> Anyway, I just searched for a substring of that in the logs, and found just that exact message, and the quoted lines from a while ago.
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13:20:51 <fizzie> But the possibilities for intentionally misinterpreting it were there, and you senselessly wasted them!
13:46:57 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:58:01 <ehird> "According to Arnold Kim, in the latest Snow Leopard seed QuickTime Pro features are baked right in to regular old QuickTime, just like they should have been all along."
13:58:12 <ehird> Did it take Apple that long to realise that QuickTime "Pro" was a laughing stock?
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14:00:55 <ehird> 04:46:31 <oklopol> MizardX: why would you interpret that correctly, when you could just as well misinterpret it to ask when my message was sent?
14:00:56 <ehird> 04:46:36 <oklopol> just wondering.
14:01:00 <ehird> he is not awesome enough. duh.
14:08:41 -!- impomatic has joined.
14:11:49 <impomatic> There's an anonymous comment on my blog with the code for a BF Joust warrior that scores 277 (of a possible 300) - http://tr.im/frhp
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14:54:02 <oklopol> should be something trivial from linear algebra
14:54:06 <oklopol> i just don't remember what.
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14:56:20 <oklopol> i think GL_2(R) is just an example of a lie group
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15:41:57 <ehird> "Be warned that the code 16, when used as the destination of a mapping, actually causes a kernel panic on keypress -— as I’ve found out the hard way. "
15:45:02 * ehird remaps [] to () and vise versa
15:46:49 <ehird> sheesh, SBCL is ridiculously fast
15:53:57 <ehird> oh man, emacs gets like 50x better when you disable the beep
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16:10:54 <ehird> #macosx: Masters of stating the really fucking useless obvious. http://pastie.org/386081.txt?key=ur8hitumxmju7heqzjkong
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16:25:26 <ehird> CL-USER> (expt (exp 1) (* pi (complex 0 1)))
16:25:27 <ehird> #C(-0.9999999999999825d0 1.8725351415038922d-7)
16:25:34 <ehird> One day I will find a language that does this properly.
16:30:52 <oklopol> any language that knows math
16:31:11 <ehird> oklopol: what does J say
16:31:41 <ehird> any language that doesn't get euler's identity right is worthless.
16:31:43 <oklopol> doesn't look like the exact same wrong result, but should be the same operations
16:32:05 <ehird> oklopol: why do you LIE
16:32:55 <oklopol> python gives the exact same wrong result
16:33:19 <ehird> what about JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
16:33:21 <oklopol> anyway the problem is while j knows its rationals, it doesn't know anything about reals, not even the nice ones.
16:33:32 <oklopol> ehird: i tried before saying anything
16:33:38 <oklopol> because i was like J CAN SO DO THAT
16:33:44 <ehird> even haskell gets it wrong
16:33:55 <ehird> oklopol: well why couldn't it, it could just hardcode it.
16:34:22 <oklopol> i think of haskell as a pretty low-level language, not sure why, maybe it's the bounded integers exist thing
16:34:40 <ehird> haskell is really high level :|
16:34:50 <ehird> plus nobody likes/uses the bounded integeeeeeeers
16:35:40 <oklopol> i'm not sure why it feels low-level, but for some reason j feels higher-level to me, just less sophisticated.
16:35:50 <oklopol> do realize this has nothing to do with reason
16:35:55 <oklopol> have you tried mathematica
16:36:04 <oklopol> i have a hunch it gets it right :)
16:36:30 <oklopol> (if you do it right, that is, it probably does float stuff too)
16:37:47 <ehird> In[10]:= (E ** (I Pi)) + 1
16:37:48 <ehird> Out[10]= 1 + E ** (I \[Pi])
16:38:00 <ehird> In[11]:= N[(E ** (I Pi)) + 1]
16:38:01 <ehird> Out[11]= 1. + 2.71828 ** (0. + 3.14159 I)
16:38:06 <ehird> how lovely and USELESS
16:38:19 <ehird> I WANT A NUMBER, MATHEMATICA
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16:39:15 <ehird> i hate mathematica now.
16:39:24 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> FIRST ATTEMPT:
16:39:25 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> In[10]:= (E ** (I Pi)) + 1
16:39:26 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> Out[10]= 1 + E ** (I \[Pi])
16:39:27 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> SECOND:
16:39:29 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> In[11]:= N[(E ** (I Pi)) + 1]
16:39:31 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> Out[11]= 1. + 2.71828 ** (0. + 3.14159 I)
16:39:33 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> how lovely and USELESS
16:39:43 <ehird> what does excel say
16:39:56 <ehird> (We're putting euler's identity into a bunch of calculamators to see how they handle it)
16:40:09 <oklopol> i try to get a function from the list, and it says "btw this here formula isn't finished yet, so there's a parse error, why not start over?"
16:40:14 <ais523> ehird: mathematica's all pattern matching, so it fails on anything that hasn't been coded into it
16:40:23 <ehird> ais523: youve said
16:40:27 <ehird> but how come N[] didn't work
16:42:20 <oklopol> excel doesn't know complexes
16:42:27 <ehird> excel is too UNCOMPLEX.
16:42:34 <MizardX> (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
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16:43:06 <ehird> ; SLIME 2006-04-20
16:43:07 <oklopol> i'm not sure how i managed to forget pressing the function list button like 10 times.
16:43:09 <ehird> CL-USER> (defun calculate-e-to-the-power-of-i-times-pi-plus-one ()
16:43:09 <ehird> CALCULATE-E-TO-THE-POWER-OF-I-TIMES-PI-PLUS-ONE
16:43:11 <ehird> CL-USER> (calculate-e-to-the-power-of-i-times-pi-plus-one)
16:43:15 <ehird> Fuck yeah common lisp
16:43:44 <oklopol> i just mentally copied what you did
16:44:05 <oklopol> (expt (exp 1) (* pi (complex 0 1))) = (exp (* pi (complex 0 1))) ofc
16:44:20 <ehird> CL-USER> (exp (* pi (complex 0 1)))
16:44:21 <ehird> #C(-1.0d0 1.2246063538223773d-16)
16:44:28 <ehird> oklopol: how come you think in common lisp
16:45:09 <oklopol> that one i thought in math
16:45:39 <oklopol> so you know trigonometry, huh, ehird
16:45:59 <ehird> oklopol: stop mocking me :P
16:46:18 <oklopol> if you actually knew what that identity means
16:46:29 <ehird> it means euler had some awesome drugs.
16:46:33 <oklopol> because while it's trivial, it would mean you know at least some basic math
16:46:42 <ehird> <oklopol> because while it's trivial, it would mean you know at least some basic math
16:47:26 <oklopol> well it *is* trivial, after you know the nontrivial stuff it's built on :P
16:47:54 <ehird> hmm why do I like common lisp
16:48:17 <ehird> ... well it's lisp, and it's really fucking fast
16:48:23 <ehird> and emacs+slime kind of reminds me of lisp machines.
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16:49:06 <oklopol> do you like lisp machines?
16:49:29 <ehird> even other language fanatics like lisp machines
16:49:31 <oklopol> so these games where you're like a hacker and you know try to hack stuff, they exist right?
16:49:38 <ehird> because they can implement their own language on top of lisp.
16:49:42 <ehird> oklopol: see: Uplink
16:49:45 <oklopol> because i was thinking making rootquest.
16:50:05 <oklopol> more like virtual machine, try to hack to root on it
16:50:24 <ais523> yes, it's called a virtual machine
16:50:36 <ais523> just grab any OS you like, and try to hack it
16:50:59 <ais523> DOS would be very hard to hack from the outside
16:51:03 <oklopol> and do realize i don't actually believe you can leave loopholes in code except on purpose
16:51:03 <ais523> given that it has no clue how to open ports
16:51:13 <ehird> ais523: erm, DOS has 0 security
16:51:16 <oklopol> because i'm a lunatic, as you should know.
16:51:21 <ais523> ehird: yes, but also 0 network capability
16:51:25 <ais523> without third-party software
16:51:38 <ais523> so you can put anything you like in the network cable, it'll just go la la la I can't hear you
16:51:43 <ehird> you're using a virtual machine
16:51:48 <ehird> you have physical access
16:52:29 <oklopol> outside = via network, usually
16:53:28 <oklopol> but anyway, the problem with rootquest is while it's simple to implement, it might take a while to make a virtual os in python, and i don't really have any tie
16:53:36 <oklopol> it's just i have tons of ideas for loopholes!
16:53:45 <ehird> CL-USER> (defun range (start end)
16:53:46 <ehird> (loop for i from start below end collect i))
16:53:51 <ehird> that is so un lisp.
16:54:01 <oklopol> they are cunning, although admittedly the coolest holes are stolen from actual systems
16:54:52 <oklopol> yes it's not the prettiest thingy
16:55:19 <ehird> I want acooke to release his malbolge geneticizer
16:56:02 <ehird> http://www.acooke.org/ that's one dense home page
16:56:56 <oklopol> that's how it should be done, when you add content, just find a way to fit it on the same page
16:56:56 <ehird> ps. [note added later] i deleted the lisp code when updating the OS on my computer. before that i had generated a properly punctuated "Hello world", but never saved the code. so i guess this will remain the only non-trivial malbolge program....
16:57:21 <ehird> oklopol: ps you should remap [ to (, ] to ) and vise-versa, it's awesome
16:57:29 <ehird> three tap smilies. lisp.
16:57:36 <oklopol> will remain the only non-trivial malbolge program?
16:57:59 <ehird> that was written in like 2003 dood
16:58:06 <ehird> before anyone else wrote a program in malbolge
16:58:16 <ehird> oklopol: you know how typing [ and ] is one keypress
16:58:19 <ehird> but ( and ) need shift?
16:58:22 <oklopol> yeah i know, well i guess i didn't, but you know i know now that you told me.
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16:58:46 <ehird> i'm assuming qwerty here. you probably use FINNVAK or something
16:59:02 <oklopol> [ and ] need shift too. do realize our virtual mouths have a different tooth structure
16:59:20 <ehird> what doesn't need shit i mean shift
16:59:28 <oklopol> they don't need shift in my palmtop
16:59:57 <ehird> your life must sck :[
16:59:58 <oklopol> those i can get without shifting
17:00:05 <ehird> I have to get used to this
17:00:14 <ehird> oklopol: i guess > = shift-<?
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17:01:39 <ehird> i love how SLIME does an animation when you start itu p
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17:11:47 <ehird> oklopol: is oklotalk dead? you seem to like j more now
17:12:32 <oklopol> yes j replaced it completely, sorry, it's gone.
17:13:07 <ehird> oklopol: are you sure :<
17:13:21 <ehird> CL-USER> (setq googolplex (expt 10 googol))
17:13:31 <oklopol> why won't my grades come to me
17:14:01 <oklopol> i have five grades pending atm
17:14:29 <ehird> j kind of has an infinity fetish
17:14:33 <ehird> oklopol: j's integers are bounded yknow
17:14:35 <ehird> it doesn't have bignums
17:14:39 <ehird> did you know that?
17:14:54 <ehird> oklopol: enter 9999999999999(lots of 9s here)
17:15:02 <oklopol> i just didn't, like, understand it
17:15:10 <oklopol> i mean 10^10^100=inf already says that
17:15:14 <ehird> was it too traumatic :<
17:15:44 <ehird> oklopol: oklotalk back on the cards again? :D
17:16:00 <oklopol> yeah, i put it back on my todo list just now
17:16:29 <oklopol> but, time to prove my algebra is boolean now
17:16:48 <oklopol> (:|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||)
17:19:02 <ehird> ais523: do you like lisp?
17:19:05 <ehird> common lisp that is
17:19:18 <ais523> it depends on what you mean by "like"
17:19:21 <ais523> I'm highly impressed by it
17:19:38 <ais523> I think it was an excellent idea
17:19:41 <ais523> and a great language at the time
17:19:52 <ais523> I also think that nowadays, various lisp-based languages have overtaken the original
17:19:58 <ais523> still a great idea, though
17:20:01 <ehird> also, common lisp was circa 1980s FYI
17:20:16 <ehird> so you think lisp derivatives > lisp?
17:20:24 <ais523> but some of them are better
17:20:46 <ais523> well, technically prolog is a lisp derivative
17:20:57 <ehird> you think prolog is better than lisp?
17:21:08 <ais523> and most functional languages were at least inspired by Lisp
17:21:13 <ehird> WOO HOO LEOPARD DOWNLOADED
17:21:23 <ais523> I think Haskell was indirectly inspired by it, for instance, even though they aren't all that similar
17:22:10 <ehird> via Miranda via ML via ISWIM
17:22:14 <ehird> and none of them actually were based on lisp
17:22:16 <ehird> just in the same genre
17:22:23 <ehird> in conclusion, haskell has almost nothing to do with lisp
17:22:38 <ais523> well, many of them would never have been come up with if their authors hadn't seen lisp
17:22:52 <ais523> I mean, even Underload was inspired by Lisp to some extent
17:29:00 <ais523> I would be so amused if Apple were set on by animal rights activists who missed the fact that the version names were just codenames
17:29:17 <ehird> "New Leopard mac!"
17:29:19 <ehird> "omg fur is murder"
17:34:27 <ehird> CL-USER> (defun calculate-epsilon (&optional (current 1.0))
17:34:27 <ehird> (if (= (+ 1.0 (/ current 2.0)) 1.0)
17:34:31 <ehird> (calculate-epsilon (/ current 2.0))))
17:34:35 <ehird> CL-USER> (calculate-epsilon)
17:34:39 <ehird> CL-USER> (format t "~f" (calculate-epsilon))
17:35:18 <ais523> ah, keep halving a number x until 1+x is indistinguishable from 1
17:36:08 <ehird> the floating point machine epsilon
17:36:16 <ehird> i.e. "smallest number greater than zero"
17:36:31 <ehird> since comparisons are handled differently
17:36:43 <ais523> no, it's the smallest number that makes a difference to 1
17:36:50 <ais523> the smallest number that makes a difference to 10 is 10 times as large
17:36:57 <ais523> due to the way floating-point works
17:37:02 <ehird> floating point is weird-ass
17:37:19 <ehird> I'd never use it for anything serious tbh
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18:13:54 <ehird> See you guys post upgrade
18:14:05 <ais523> I hope it goes more smoothly than my average upgrade
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18:51:26 <ehird> Ran in to some trouble, :[
18:51:32 <ehird> Let's try that again...
18:54:41 <ehird> ais523: It displayed a warning sign on my tiger drive and said I had to reformat the drive so it could boot from it before installation.
18:54:47 <ehird> Except it was already in the right format.
18:55:03 <ehird> So now I'll ask #macosx wtf happened.
18:59:09 <ehird> ugh, #macosx is so irritating
18:59:17 <ehird> people just talk about boring life crap and ignore all questions
18:59:24 <ehird> get a fucking social channel
18:59:33 <ais523> hmm... my computer's busy updating dpkg, it always amuses me when that happens
19:00:21 <MizardX> 1.1920929e-7 corresponds with 23 bit mantissa. (+ 8 bit exponent and 1 bit sign = 32 bit IEEE float)
19:02:10 <ehird> <#macosx> Blah blah blah fires in australia fires in australia fires in australia fires in australia fires in australia fires in australia fires in australia what's mac os x?
19:03:20 * ehird consults on Olde Wise Oracle Apple.com
19:03:40 <ehird> 0 results found for 'reformat leopard install'
19:04:10 <ehird> Only installation option may be Erase and Install <-- that, I think
19:04:21 <ehird> When installing Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, the only available installation option may be Erase and Install. An alert may appear during installation, such as "You can not install mac os x on this volume with out changing your installation settings...".
19:04:37 <ehird> Use Disk Utility from the Leopard installation DVD to verify and repair the destination drive (choose it from the Utilities menu while started from the Leopard DVD).
19:05:39 <ehird> Let's try it anyway
19:06:42 <ehird> Bye guys breaking my machine -------->
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21:46:35 <ehirddit> All my settings and files are technically gone, but I'll fish out what I need from /Previous Systems/.
21:48:15 <ehirddit> This is nice. Okay. Better get stuff I need set up.
21:49:06 <ehirddit> Hmm, Time Machine, should set that up sometime.
21:49:19 <ehirddit> Although not backing up has worked fine for however many years I've been using computers.
21:50:32 <ehirddit> ... it thinks I live in Cardiff.
21:53:07 <ehirddit> iChat still doesn't do MSN. So, Adium download go.
21:53:53 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
21:54:40 <ehirddit> "“Adium” is an application which was downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to open it?"
21:56:56 <ehirddit> Think I'll give Mail.app another try. Maybe they made it less crap.
21:57:26 <lament> It is far worse than gmail.
21:57:27 <ehirddit> oh, the middle button is at the default of open dashboard. I almost forgot how retarded that default was.
21:58:28 <lament> search is very slow with a couple thousand messages in your inbox
21:58:46 <ehirddit> ah. I mostly search the Agora/B mailboxes and they have like 7,000 messages each
22:00:48 <ais523> time machine's just a good interface to one of the tried-and-true backup methods, I think
22:01:02 <ehirddit> good interface is almost everything
22:01:02 <ais523> it's basically rsync with a less insane syntax, which is needed
22:01:14 <ehirddit> it just scans the HD every 5 minutes or so
22:01:19 <ehirddit> and transfers a diff to an external HD
22:01:27 <ehirddit> then integrates with a bunch of apps to let you drag & drop from the past
22:03:14 <ehirddit> It only took 30 minutes to install, BTW.
22:03:21 <ehirddit> The problem was I think I didn't have enough free space on the disk.
22:03:31 -!- comex has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:03:33 <ehirddit> So I had to expand it and then it let me install.
22:03:42 -!- comex has joined.
22:13:47 <ehirddit> Hrm, it seems all they did to Mail was make it look prettier.
22:14:37 <ehirddit> Wonder how you restore the iTunes library.
22:16:39 <ehirddit> Can't copy my music because there's not enough free space x_x
22:16:45 * ehirddit deletes the OS and crap from old system
22:26:34 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
22:32:13 * ehirddit fishes out textmate serial from old HD
22:42:15 <ehirddit> I can tell you're all highly interested.
22:47:09 <ehirddit> I'ma get myself a proper IRC client.
22:47:59 <kerlo> My computer has no IRC client, I believe.
22:48:10 <ais523> kerlo: does it have telnet?
22:48:11 <kerlo> Oh, it has ChatZilla, which I don't use.
22:48:18 <kerlo> Yes, it has telnet.
22:49:14 <ehirddit> Let's give Linkinus a try, maybe it's less crashy these days.
22:49:20 <ehirddit> “Linkinus” is an application which was downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to open it?
22:49:32 <ehirddit> I should disable it or something.
22:49:44 -!- ehirddit has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
22:55:44 <ehird> ais523? Hellloooooo? Anyone?
22:56:14 * ais523 was wondering about staying silent to see ehird get increasingly more frantic
22:57:21 <ehird> Yes, Linkinus does seem to work much nicer on Leopard.
22:57:48 <ehird> OK, that's IM, IRC and editing sorted out.
23:00:06 -!- ais523 has quit.
23:12:05 <fungot> ehird: group located on or off),
23:20:25 <fungot> comex: when a player: in any way grant legal status to that office.
23:22:35 <ehird> http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/winme_b3_42.gif
23:22:41 <ehird> Click that link and you can now cry!
23:22:48 <fungot> Available: agora* alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
23:22:50 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
23:25:56 <ehird> Spaces are nice. Now I have to have 4 times as much stuff to die.
23:26:46 -!- Corun has joined.
23:33:11 <fungot> comex: http://mumble.net/campbell/ scheme/ plt/ collects/ net/ ipv4/ tcp_ecn.)
23:37:08 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
23:37:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:44:53 <ehird> "Recently i wrote my own operating system (POPS) and reinvented the wheel invented by Bill Gates many years ago…"
23:45:54 <Slereah2> Bill Gates invented the wheel?
23:46:03 <ehird> Yes. Also, operating systems.
23:47:07 <Slereah2> Bad idea, he had it sweet with the wheel
23:47:14 <Slereah2> But now everyone blames him for windows.
23:51:02 <oklopol> maybe he's talking about crappy operating systems?
23:51:21 <oklopol> although i guess gates didn't invent those either
23:53:26 <kerlo> t klama klama klama klama klama zo si si
23:54:50 <kerlo> The final "si" erases "zo si".
23:55:18 <kerlo> Wait, I think it only erases the "si" before it.
23:55:58 <kerlo> This is the important part: in "zo si", the "si" is denatured.
23:57:11 <oklopol> in fact i just don't know how the erasers work regarding pedantic grammar treatment
23:58:57 <kerlo> After you've lexed a sentence, the first thing you do is handle zoi, and the second thing you do is handle zo.