00:04:14 oklopol: it's fun. 00:07:26 IAmGreenAndAlsoF: i didn't read logs, are you ehird? 00:07:47 yes. 00:08:32 k. well. it's not very fun, it's mainly about doing simple arithmetic 00:08:34 well 00:08:47 okay, i'm only at level 33 sofar, because it's not very interesting. 00:08:53 "only" 00:08:54 :-D 00:08:58 hey oklopol 00:09:00 DOT ACTION 2 00:09:26 well i did the levels before it on ~5 attempts, it's not like it took that long 00:09:39 yeah i've been thinking i should continue that 00:09:47 :DD 00:09:52 oklopol: you should write INFINITE ACTION 00:09:57 unfortunately: when :|||||||| 00:09:58 which generates progressively harder dot action levels 00:09:59 FOREVER 00:10:18 i mean i took this electronics course 00:10:26 because i just take all kinds of random courses 00:10:31 and i don't know fuck about physics. 00:10:56 and the book is a scanned copy, because i'm sure as hell not gonna buy it 00:11:03 not all that fun to read 00:11:24 and i need to read quite a lot of it till friday 00:11:49 i need more time 00:11:52 gimme gimme gimme 00:12:27 oklopol: here's some time 00:19:51 okay not arithmetic as such, the puzzles are about subset sum 00:27:52 finished the game 00:27:56 that was kinda pointless. 00:28:08 and i don't call pointless easily. 00:38:40 :D 01:04:13 What's the maximum acceleration a person could survive for an extended period ... obviously if you were in a spaceship accelerating at 1G indefinitely it would be perfectly comfortable, but how high does it get before people start bleeding and turning into pancakemen... 01:04:28 green 01:08:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 01:16:41 GregorR: wut? 01:17:45 If you were in a spaceship accelerating at 1G, it would feel just like gravity (but take a lot more energy). What's the maximum acceleration a ship could maintain for long periods before its human occupants go *squish* after fairly long periods of time? 01:21:53 ...why would they go squish? 01:24:08 ... seriously? 01:24:15 I'm talking about acceleration, not velocity. 01:25:35 umm kay. that's what i thought you said. 01:28:47 GregorR: can you teach me the physics that lead to the squishing? 01:29:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:30:22 All objects in motion have a tendency to stay in motion, and all objects at rest have a tendency to stay at rest. If you push on them to force them not to stay in motion/at rest, they will push back (every action has an equal and opposite reaction). When your body pushes back with, say, 100Gs of force, it will most certainly not remain a body for long. 01:35:16 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:41:13 If your velocity is 0.99999999999999999999999973c, you'll get to the Andromeda galaxy in ten minutes 8-D 01:44:02 and if it's c, you'll already be there 01:44:51 Whoops, miscalculation, make that v = 0.999999999999999999999972c (one more 9) 01:44:56 BUT IF IT'S C++, YOU'LL PROBABLY *insert something funny * 01:45:11 ...in you ass 01:46:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:50:41 -!- IAmGreenAndAlsoF has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 01:53:14 GregorR: 10 minutes on a clock inside or outside the vehicle? 01:53:23 Inside of course. 01:53:41 2.5 million years will have passed outside. 01:53:43 MizardX: galaxies aren't exactly 10 light years away 01:54:18 (the milky way is not very far away) 01:54:26 X-P 01:54:55 ski__: what a significant point to make 01:54:58 :o 01:55:24 not that significant, i admit 01:55:43 so err 01:55:47 _ is application? 01:55:53 and it's reversed 01:56:04 ski__ = ``iks = `ks 01:56:11 = sk_ 01:56:42 that might have been 01:56:54 WHY IS YOUR NICK NOT IN NORMAL FORM? 01:57:16 -!- oklopol has changed nick to kllooop. 01:57:19 ask freenode why you can't be in more than 20 channels ? 01:57:50 that's a pretty omnipresent rule 01:57:57 -!- kllooop has changed nick to oklopoll. 01:58:00 ... 01:58:01 typo 01:58:07 and by that i mean quakenet has the same limit 01:58:36 it's probably so you'll have to choose, they want to teach you not to be greedy 01:58:39 (my "real" nick is `ski', btw) 01:59:05 i know i'm a #haskell regular idler 01:59:16 ok 01:59:33 i'm assuming it's combinators and not, say, skiing? 01:59:58 yes 02:00:26 you're .se so i had to check 02:01:06 (i couldn't come up with anything less silly when i started with irc in c:a 2000) 02:01:42 well you could've use something that actually did something. except i'm not sure how much you can do without parens 02:02:07 interesting question though, what can you do? 02:03:22 well. i have a lecture in 4 hours, better have some sleep now prolly 02:03:23 -> 02:03:25 istr someone wrote a basic concatenative EDSL in haskell, using only application for composition of words 02:03:57 possibly one could do something similar in combinatory logic, if one defined a few appropriate combinators 02:04:08 ok 02:04:15 err 02:04:22 oh 02:04:38 edsl? 02:04:47 like e-dsl? 02:04:47 :P 02:04:49 Embedded Domain Specific Language 02:05:08 oh. right. 02:05:48 now seriously -> 02:05:56 * ski__ idly wonders what oklopoll has lecture in .. 02:06:21 ...calculus 02:06:25 (ok, bye, get some sleep :) 02:06:29 trying! 02:07:10 * oklopoll goes once more 02:51:53 ski = i. 02:52:05 I don't like sk = ki. Let's change it. 02:52:45 %eval (e (s k) (k i) (Darn.) (Celebrate! Ponies and flowers and cuddles.)) 02:52:46 (Celebrate! Ponies and flowers and cuddles.) 02:52:53 Hey, they're not equal after all. 02:53:02 %eval (s k) 02:53:03 [l (y) (l (z) ((k z) (y z)))] 02:53:07 %eval (k i) 02:53:08 [l (y) i] 02:53:28 %eval i 02:53:29 [l (x) x] 02:53:40 %eval ((k z) (y z)) 02:53:40 z 02:53:51 %eval (l (z) z) 02:53:51 [l (z) z] 02:54:47 Therefore, (s k) = [l (y) [l (z) z]] and (k i) = [l (y) [l (x) x]], if you evaluate subexpressions that are eventually going to be evaluated anyway. 02:55:16 %eval (hold ((s k) x) ((s k) z) ((k i) x) ((k i) z)) 02:55:16 (hold ((s k) x) ((s k) z) ((k i) x) ((k i) z)) 02:55:23 Meh. 02:55:32 %eval ((s k) x) 02:55:33 [l (z) ((k z) (x z))] 02:55:49 %eval (((s k) x) N) 02:55:49 N 02:55:52 %eval (((s k) z) N) 02:55:52 N 02:55:58 %eval (((k i) x) N) 02:55:58 N 02:56:01 %eval (((k i) z) N) 02:56:01 N 02:56:08 Wow, I didn't expect that. 02:56:27 %eval (((s k) y) N) 02:56:27 N 02:56:30 %eval (((k i) y) N) 02:56:30 N 04:26:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombgirl. 04:55:41 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:06:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 05:09:11 -!- MizardX has joined. 05:28:13 Wow, NOBODY understands length contraction (or I don't, but I really think I'm right here :P ) 05:29:25 Oh, relativity. 05:34:24 space-time bends by the effect of speed alone... 06:26:38 Space time bends for the slightest thing, MizardX. 06:35:13 Space-time doesn't bend, that implies that it's a global phenomenon. Space-time is perceived differently from different [inertial] reference frames. 06:38:02 -!- oklopoll has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 06:40:04 THERE IS NO SPACETIME 06:40:51 There is no Earth, there is no solar system, there is no galaxy, there is no space time. There is only one truth: There is only the spoon. 06:42:19 precisely 06:42:25 and its too big :( 06:50:49 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:50:59 -!- moozilla has joined. 06:54:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:05:16 I've heard that Uri Geller can bend the space-time with his mind only. 07:12:12 it's true 07:14:41 Yay f**ed up relativity: to get to a location that's N lightyears away in N years (yes, N==N), how fast do you need to go? Answer: sqrt(0.5) times the speed of light GWAR 07:14:55 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:17:17 but how much time would that be from a bystander's perspective? :) 07:41:43 GWAR! 07:53:20 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:06 N * sqrt(2) years? 08:19:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 08:38:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:46:27 well you could've use something that actually did something. except i'm not sure how much you can do without parens 08:46:51 hm. starting with i or k is uninteresting 08:47:07 sk is also uninteresting 08:50:39 sixy -> y(xy), which is uninteresting if y is k or i 08:51:58 and by "uninteresting" i mean reduces to something simpler without parentheses than the original 08:52:49 so (1) sixs 08:53:09 siis -> ss, uninteresting 08:56:10 siksxy -> s(ks)xy -> ksy(xy) -> s(xy) 08:56:53 s tends to make things more complicated of course. i wonder if you can blow up using only those 08:58:09 sssssss -> ss(ss)sss -> ss(sss)ss -> ss(ssss)s -> ss(sssss) 08:58:18 i sense a pattern, and no 09:03:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:18:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 09:32:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:49:19 -!- Corun has joined. 09:50:16 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 09:58:59 -!- metazilla has joined. 09:59:04 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:59:10 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 10:02:13 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:02:22 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:03:59 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:04:26 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:04:27 -!- moozilla has changed nick to metazilla. 10:05:58 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:05:58 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:06:07 -!- moozilla has changed nick to metazilla. 10:06:47 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:06:53 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:06:58 -!- moozilla has changed nick to metazilla. 10:10:03 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:10:03 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:10:18 -!- moozilla has changed nick to metazilla. 10:12:08 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:12:09 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:18:58 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:18:59 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:19:07 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 10:19:35 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:19:37 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:25:31 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:25:33 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:26:13 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:26:13 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:26:21 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 10:31:54 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:31:54 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:32:06 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 10:32:48 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:32:58 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:33:46 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:33:54 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:35:47 -!- ehird has joined. 10:35:57 hi 10:36:02 ho 10:36:07 it's off to work we go? 10:36:14 yes. 10:36:45 so. 10:36:55 wonder if im still klined 10:36:57 * ehird = tired 10:37:20 so am I, intensive modules are wearing 10:37:24 on everyone involved 10:40:18 i think i had a dream about this channel 10:40:24 interesting 10:40:49 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:40:58 i was using my old client :s 10:41:15 -!- moozilla has joined. 10:41:23 yeah that was the one notable thing 10:43:39 I Have a Dream [citation needed] 10:43:51 ha 10:44:40 I had a dream a while back where a polar bear turned up on the doorstep to our house, which was useful because we'd forgotten to feed the foxes 10:45:26 strange, really, I don't even own a trio of foxes 10:45:32 and if I did I probably wouldn't keep them in the fight 10:45:35 *house 10:45:44 I'm dubious as to whether a polar bear or three foxes would win a fight anyway 10:46:31 haha 10:48:32 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:48:44 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:48:46 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 11:36:33 heh, thedailywtf sidebar has an argument about whether when all of the territory of Tuvalu ends up underwater, the .tv subdomain will still exist 11:36:58 has to 11:37:00 so many things use it 11:37:14 link? 11:37:14 it would be kind-of funny if it didn't, though 11:37:33 http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/10875/190075.aspx#190075 11:37:42 to be honest, country tlds are just random namespaces to me, since I don't believe in country-based segregation of dns 11:38:04 but lol 11:38:06 I love that tooltip 11:38:23 hilarious to the max 11:38:24 well, if the country ceases to exist, does its DNS entry? 11:38:51 Well... it gets obsoleted, but generally if enough people use it ICANN fail to bully them effectively to use another one, so they keep it around. 11:40:02 the registrars would jump at the chance to force everyone with a .tv to go to a new domain, I reckon 11:40:05 free money right there 11:40:10 hardly... 11:40:18 It's marketed by them as Super Valuable User Experience 11:40:25 This kind of stuff has happened before 11:40:29 ais523: you can still register .su 11:40:32 that's Soviet Union 11:40:36 they tried to get rid of it 11:40:44 but people liked it and got angry. 11:40:45 so they kept it. 11:40:50 [and upped the prices...] 11:41:17 essentially, obsolete ccTLDs just have to keep getting registrations in to ward of ICANN 11:41:21 *off 11:41:30 .tv is popular so they'll have no problem 11:43:03 ais523: the Five tv channel which I presume you know about's main domain is five.tv 11:43:06 that's pretty high-profile 11:43:23 anyway, if the nation of Tuvalu itself survives whilst having no territory it'll make an interesting argument in the nomic=micronation? debate 11:43:39 and yes, I used to watch Channel 5 back when it had a better name and was actually good 11:43:48 heh 11:44:25 it was really well designed to start with, a predictable schedule you could memorise (news every hour, particular sorts of programs in particular slots...) 11:44:34 and it had lots of interesting program choice too 11:44:50 tv is a bit obsolete now, IMO 11:45:23 yes, I hardly watch it 11:45:33 the idea of following someone else's schedule to watch a program they want you to see, (and with non-BBC channels, copious amounts of irritating adverts in between) is frankly quite old fashioned 11:45:37 more bandwidth-efficient than internet for things it's designed for, though 11:45:47 yes, broadcast is unfortunately being abandoned 11:46:05 anyway, time to get lunch 11:46:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:05:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:05:52 hi ais523 12:06:06 hi ehird 12:06:42 -!- ehird has quit ("Lost terminal"). 12:08:35 -!- ehird has joined. 12:08:37 *** Banned: Your bot is still broken and reconnects way too fast and too often. 12:08:41 Go. Fuck. Yourself. Freenode. 12:08:44 I don't have a fucking bot. 12:08:51 The only connecting is when I f ire up miau to see if I'm still klined. 12:08:54 Then I kill it. 12:09:07 And my bouncer was NEVER OFFLINE FOR AGES when it was klined. 12:09:11 Fuck you fuck you FUCK YOU. 12:09:16 :| 12:09:42 hmm... maybe the bouncer is doing frequent reconnects for some reason? 12:09:48 as it's a bouncer, it would hide that from you 12:09:58 just like it hides your reconnects from the channel 12:10:01 no 12:10:02 it doesn't 12:10:06 it tells you about discos/recos 12:10:09 and besides, I checked the logs 12:10:12 no disconnects or reconnects 12:10:14 just BAM klined 12:10:23 the only other client on this server is bsmnt_bot 12:10:28 but _I'm_ klined 12:10:29 not it 12:10:32 not even on the server? 12:10:32 see the logs, I'm the one who gets klined 12:10:35 so it's not bsmnt_bot 12:10:46 ais523: rutian runs miau (not anymore, ofc) and bsmnt_bot 12:10:48 that's it 12:10:49 you might have disconnected/reconnected a lot without ever joining #esoteric 12:10:55 no 12:10:58 because i was in #esoteric 12:10:58 so it wouldn't show up in the logs 12:10:59 consistently 12:11:00 for hours 12:11:01 then got klined 12:11:06 i DID read the logs 12:13:47 maybe I should put up a bot that does do that 12:13:47 leave it up for a few days 12:13:48 kill it 12:13:48 then tell them I fixed it 12:13:50 no 12:14:00 yeah that probably wouldn't work 12:14:10 did you reply to them with an explanation that the account klined wasn't even running a bot? 12:14:37 Indeed, I did that even before this new ban message. 12:14:41 Pointless. 12:17:29 have you asked them for evidence? 12:18:29 I might. Not that I expect that to help. 12:19:08 well then it won't. nothing ever helps if you don't believe in it. 12:19:41 :p 12:21:48 * oerjan has a thought 12:22:19 if bsmnt_bot's quits and joins are the cause of this (overreaction, but still) would putting it on the bouncer help? 12:22:45 hm the replay might mess up things 12:23:05 replay can be turned off 12:23:15 the bouncer ehird and I used to use only replayed on request 12:23:24 although the request was in my startup script 12:23:37 ic 12:24:47 if bsmnt_bot's quits and joins are the cause of this 12:24:47 can't be 12:24:50 it's not running any more 12:25:02 is the bouncer running? 12:26:11 is all of eso-std.org klined, or just you? 12:27:08 I'm not sure, possibly all, but in the logs, I was the one who quit as (K-Lined) 12:27:14 and the bouncer is not running. 12:30:06 oh well. 12:30:59 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bass"). 12:53:01 -!- oklopoll has joined. 12:54:11 oklopollololololol 12:54:26 is an oklopoll a sort of vote? 12:54:33 groan 12:54:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:54:50 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:54:56 Oklopol: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic 12:55:19 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic. 12:57:41 -!- Slereah has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. 12:58:43 -!- oklofok has joined. 12:59:00 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic. 12:59:05 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic; d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. 12:59:08 sorry 12:59:09 just wanted to add the ; 12:59:28 can you remove the extra space after c) too? 12:59:54 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic; d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. 12:59:57 yes. 13:03:29 oko 13:03:55 okoko 13:03:59 oklofok: oklotalk-- bot plz 13:04:07 :o 13:04:08 ummmmm 13:04:44 * oklofok clicked on something now 13:04:53 wut 13:04:56 damn 13:04:58 wrong button. 13:05:14 it's hardcoded to quakenet atm 13:05:17 i'll rehardcode it 13:05:57 -!- oktabot has joined. 13:06:02 hi oklofok 13:06:03 er 13:06:04 oktabot: 13:06:07 :: 1 13:06:08 1 13:06:08 what's yer command prefix den 13:06:09 oho 13:06:12 :: (+ 1 1) 13:06:13 2 13:06:25 :: ({X -> X} 1) 13:06:25 x 13:06:27 :: (+ "still no " "support for anything?") 13:06:28 still no support for anything? 13:06:30 um I think I forgot the syntax 13:06:31 :o 13:06:31 k 13:06:43 :: ({(-> X X)} 1) 13:06:43 1 13:06:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:06:56 yay 13:06:59 :: $f 13:06:59 f 13:07:01 yayyy 13:07:04 yayyyyyyyy 13:07:05 :: f 13:07:05 f 13:07:08 -!- SirDayBat has left (?). 13:07:41 oklofok: how do you do iteration? 13:07:49 ais523: by recursion. 13:08:00 ais523: beware, Things double as objects. 13:08:04 oklofok: do you still have my cons-class? 13:08:06 is -> purely a lambda? 13:08:10 that thing was nice 13:08:10 ehird: www.vjn.fi/oklopol 13:08:12 or is it more complicated? 13:08:13 ais523: no, it's a Thing match 13:08:14 ais523: o no. 13:08:22 (-> ptrn expr) 13:08:23 ais523: coed samples: 13:08:28 ais523: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk--.txt 13:08:33 ptrn is matched on whatever is in _ 13:08:37 basically {} is a function and an object 13:08:44 oklofok: ssh, the examples are enough for anyone 13:08:45 :P 13:08:49 well yeah sure :P 13:09:10 i was actually thinking i'd add like at least somekinda spec stubs in the /oklopol/ examples? 13:09:16 meh 13:09:27 what does ' do? 13:09:32 recursion 13:09:32 ais523: recur 13:09:35 by inspection, that seems most likely to be the thing implementing recursion 13:09:42 ' just means "me" 13:09:49 ais523: you can do recursion by name as well. 13:10:03 not in objects tho 13:10:24 :: (= cons {(-> [h t] {(-> [$pb :] [h t]) (-> $car h) (-> $cdr t) (-> [$setcar h] h) (-> [$setcdr t] t) (-> [$! 0] h) (-> [$! n] (! t (- n 1))) (-> $length (+ 1 (length t)))})}) 13:10:25 <<<21708712>>> 13:10:28 :: (= nil {(-> [$pb :] $f) (-> $car $f) (-> $cdr $f) (-> [$setcar h] $f) (-> [$setcdr t] $f) (-> [$! n] $f) (-> $length 0) }) 13:10:28 <<<21715424>>> 13:10:31 :: cons 13:10:31 <<<21708712>>> 13:10:39 :: (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 13:10:40 <<<21737880>>> 13:10:46 :: (car (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))) 13:10:46 1 13:10:49 :: (cdr (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))) 13:10:50 <<<21725872>>> 13:10:57 i realized the other day that one thing i definitely should've had in oklotalk-- is umm err liek. setting a dynamic variable 13:11:02 :: (! (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 0) 13:11:03 you just can't do it 13:11:03 1 13:11:05 :: (! (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 1) 13:11:05 2 13:11:07 :: (! (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 2) 13:11:07 3 13:11:09 :: (! (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 3) 13:11:09 f 13:11:15 oklofok: not even by implementing monads by hand? 13:11:18 :: (length (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))) 13:11:18 3 13:11:42 i wrote that cons/nil ^.^ 13:11:49 ais523: you can't set dynamic variables as the language implements them, stepping onto interpretation level allows you to do anything in any language. 13:12:01 ah, ok 13:12:09 oklofok: well, any tc lang 13:12:10 -!- oklopoll has quit (No route to host). 13:12:10 I wonder if monads by hand counts as interpretation level? 13:12:12 ais523: yeah btw that's a pretty fun example the one on /oklopol/ 13:12:14 i mean 13:12:20 i made the sort and the rational class 13:12:23 ehird made the list class 13:12:25 yeah it implements its own numer class 13:12:28 that you can use like regular ones 13:12:31 for rationals 13:12:35 so it's sorting rationals entirely from scratch 13:12:39 and, liek, qs 13:12:44 lists, sorting and rationals synthetic 13:12:51 oklofok: although that qs is the functional one and so not really qs. 13:12:53 but thar you go 13:13:04 ehird: well yes, i read the article too 13:13:26 what does ftr do? 13:13:31 ais523: filter 13:13:45 as in, (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] 13:13:53 i'm sure you can work that out 13:14:03 yes 13:14:15 oklofok: what is the array syntax again 13:14:20 ehird: [] 13:14:22 having that in your stdlib is kind-of cheating for implementing quicksort, though 13:14:27 umm, no 13:14:36 many langs have filter 13:14:40 it's partition that's cheating 13:14:41 ais523: well it's implemented in oklotalk 13:14:44 the filter 13:14:47 whoops 13:14:54 * ais523 accidentally cut the power supply to their monitor 13:15:02 ais523: also note that qs works on conses 13:15:03 good thing it wasn't the CPU... 13:15:05 var_map["ftr"]=ofunc("(-> [p (: (@ h (tst p)) t)] (+ [h] (' p t))) (-> [p (: h t)] (' p t)) []","ftr") 13:15:05 as well as arrays 13:15:07 same with ftr 13:15:12 because $! and length were defined 13:15:24 ais523: you could just copypaste that in there. 13:15:27 :: [1 2 3] 13:15:28 [1 2 3] 13:15:34 :: (ftr {$f} [1 2 3]) 13:15:34 [] 13:15:35 :: (ftr {$t} [1 2 3]) 13:15:36 [1 2 3] 13:15:45 the problem is you can't do imperative stuff really, which you should be able to do 13:15:50 yes 13:15:53 this is because the lvalue system is degenerate in -- 13:15:58 * ais523 is pondering how to make a botloop, as always 13:16:00 and, well, also 13:16:05 because you can't err 13:16:08 :: %eval 13:16:08 %eval 13:16:09 set a dynamic variable 13:16:13 from an inner scope 13:16:17 :: %eval a 13:16:17 a 13:16:21 you can just read it 13:16:22 how does string quoting work in oklotalk? 13:16:23 oh, right 13:16:34 ais523: very degenerate :< 13:16:49 the whole object system is kinda ugly, i was mainly just going for getting it extendable 13:16:58 should integrate strings and lists at some point 13:16:58 oklofok: " to " is a raw string? 13:17:03 or is there an escaping syntax? 13:17:04 ais523: yes 13:17:11 :: "\"" 13:17:11 " 13:17:15 ais523: i'm not sure whether there are, but i assume yes 13:17:15 :: "a" 13:17:16 a 13:17:16 okay, good 13:17:21 :: "%eval 2" 13:17:21 %eval 2 13:17:21 2 13:17:24 : """a""" 13:17:26 i just remember strings were really stupid. 13:17:28 :: """a""" 13:17:37 :: "a" 13:17:37 a 13:17:47 hmm... my triple-quotes seem to have confused it 13:17:57 :: 1 1 13:17:58 1 13:18:04 :: "" "" 13:18:07 oh. 13:18:07 right 13:18:09 ais523: parses as 13:18:11 "" "a" "" 13:18:11 it just evaluates the first 13:18:14 and it's empty 13:18:14 and the last expression is taken 13:18:16 * oklofok is idiot. 13:18:17 :: 1 2 3 13:18:17 3 13:18:26 and quotes aren't quo0ted in their output 13:18:26 thus 13:18:40 oh right last one ofc 13:18:41 :: 1 2 3 13:18:41 3 13:18:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:18:45 13:18 < ehird> thus 13:18:48 er 13:18:50 13:18 < ehird> :: 1 2 3 13:18:50 13:18 < oktabot> 3 13:18:57 oh 13:18:59 lol. 13:19:04 i'm kinda blind 13:19:05 :D 13:19:07 :: 3 2 1 13:19:08 1 13:20:07 :: (map {"\""+_+"\""} [1 2 3]) 13:20:08 [+_+"\"" +_+"\"" +_+"\""] 13:20:19 ? 13:20:24 ais523: sexps. 13:20:25 :: (map {"\""+_+"\""} ["1" "2" "3"]) 13:20:25 [+_+"\"" +_+"\"" +_+"\""] 13:20:28 oh 13:20:32 oklotalk-- 13:20:32 I'm writing in infix 13:20:34 not prefix 13:20:47 well 13:20:48 :: (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"]) 13:20:48 ["1" "2" "3"] 13:20:49 :: (1 + 3) 13:20:49 4 13:21:14 :: (fold {+} "\"" (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:21:14 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:21:33 :: (fold {+} (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"]) "\"") 13:21:33 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:21:33 is there a fold? 13:21:45 also {+} is a constant function that returns + 13:21:46 {+} wouldn't work. 13:21:47 ah, if there isn't why would there be that particular error? 13:21:52 and ok 13:21:57 because you have too many applications 13:21:59 :: (aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa) 13:21:59 aaaaaaa 13:22:02 er 13:22:03 :: (aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaa) 13:22:03 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:22:07 :: (aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaa) 13:22:07 aaaaaaa 13:22:08 :: (fold + "\"" (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:22:08 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:22:09 :: (aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa) 13:22:10 aaaaaaa 13:22:13 :: (aaaaaaa) 13:22:14 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:22:16 :: (foldl + "\"" (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:22:17 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:22:25 ... 13:22:27 well, let's implement a fold if there isn't one already 13:22:27 I just told you 13:22:29 ais523: functions are either monadic or dyadic 13:22:36 fold is trivial, look 13:22:40 and ok, that's an interesting restriction 13:22:49 you see this is just a simple sexp syntax over an infix system. 13:22:55 I should implement total from Underload, it's like fold but with two args 13:22:58 sec 13:23:47 what are arrays/lists syntactic sugar for? 13:23:53 how do I head/tail them? 13:23:59 or do I have to rely on ehird cons cells? 13:24:10 ais523: well you can pattern match on them 13:24:15 (: head tail) 13:24:22 but i'm not sure you can actively cut them... 13:24:32 pattern matching will do 13:24:33 :: (: [1 2 3]) 13:24:33 [1 2 3] 13:24:37 :: (: 4 [1 2 3]) 13:24:37 f 13:24:38 :: (= fold {(-> [f i] {(-> [] i) (-> l (f (! l 0 13:24:38 <<<21820320>>> 13:24:42 that's as far as I've written 13:24:44 feel free to continue 13:24:54 haha 13:24:55 :: (-> (: a b) [1 2 3]) 13:24:55 f 13:25:03 ok, that was surprising 13:25:09 ... 13:25:09 :: (-> (: a b) [1 2 3]) 13:25:10 f 13:25:12 {} 13:25:13 why f? 13:25:14 you need {} 13:25:17 f is false 13:25:21 ais523: well i'm not sure : means anythin. 13:25:24 maybe you should learn oklotalk :s 13:25:24 *anything 13:25:32 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:25:34 ehird: what do you think I'm doing? 13:25:39 i can see if there's a beheader.... 13:25:41 beats me :D 13:25:47 (-> a b) pattern matches on the value of _ 13:25:52 ah 13:25:56 and force a return if it matches 13:26:05 so you need them in {} to be useful 13:26:15 :: ({(-> (: a b) [a b])} [1 2 3]) 13:26:15 [1 [2 3]] 13:26:20 :: ({(-> (: a b) a)} [1 2 3 4]) 13:26:20 1 13:26:26 yes 13:26:41 huray now we sing songs of the hello 13:26:51 13:18 < ehird> :: 1 2 3 13:26:51 13:18 < oktabot> 3 13:26:52 er 13:27:00 :: (= fold {(-> [f i] {(-> [] i) (-> l (f (! l 0 13:27:01 <<<21740000>>> 13:27:01 hokay 13:27:20 :: (! [1 2 3 4 5 2 34 12 4 2 5 2 4 23 21] 10) 13:27:20 5 13:27:22 :: (= fold {(-> [f i] {(-> [] i) (-> (: a b) (: (f a) (' b)))})}) 13:27:23 <<<21831312>>> 13:27:31 there's an indexing operator it seems :D 13:27:31 :: ((fold + 0) [1 2 3]) 13:27:31 f 13:27:34 wat 13:27:47 :: (* [1 2 3] [4 5 6]) 13:27:47 [[1 4] [1 5] [1 6] [2 4] [2 5] [2 6] [3 4] [3 5] [3 6]] 13:27:49 xD 13:27:57 THERE'S A CARTESIAN PRODUCT AND NO ONE TOLD ME 13:28:09 :: (= fold {(-> [f i] {(-> [] i) (-> (: a b) (: (f a) (' b)))})}) 13:28:09 :: (* [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]]) 13:28:09 <<<21461512>>> 13:28:09 [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]] 13:28:14 y dat is broken? 13:28:16 ((fold + 0) []) 13:28:17 err 13:28:20 : ((fold + 0) []) 13:28:21 :: ((fold + 0) []) 13:28:21 0 13:28:24 that wurk 13:28:25 :: ((fold + 0) [1]) 13:28:26 f 13:28:30 that donut 13:28:35 that's a good question..... 13:28:40 * oklofok thinks 13:28:45 :: ({(-> [(: h t) f] (f h (' t f))) (-> [x f] x)} + [1 2 3 4 5]) 13:28:45 + 13:28:51 hmm... not quite right 13:28:56 failure :D 13:29:03 err... 13:29:07 :: (: 1 [2 3]) 13:29:08 f 13:29:13 that's probably the problem 13:29:15 :| 13:29:35 :: (= fold {(-> [f [a]] a) (-> [f (: a b)] (: (f a) (' f b)))}) 13:29:35 <<<21786176>>> 13:29:39 use your own lists. 13:29:42 :: ({(-> [(: h t) f] (f h (' t f))) (-> [x f] x)} [1 2 3 4 5] +) 13:29:42 An error: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'list' 13:29:45 :: (= fold {(-> [f [a]] a) (-> [f (: a b)] [(f a) (' f b)])}) 13:29:45 <<<21839384>>> 13:29:49 :: (fold + [1 2 3]) 13:29:49 [1 [2 3]] 13:29:52 my problem was I got the args the wrong way round 13:29:54 oops. 13:29:56 that's a map. 13:30:04 :: (= fold {(-> [f [a]] a) (-> [f (: a b)] (f a (' f b))}) 13:30:04 haha 13:30:04 An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. 13:30:08 :: (= fold {(-> [f [a]] a) (-> [f (: a b)] (f a (' f b)))}) 13:30:09 <<<21887856>>> 13:30:12 :: (fold + [1 2 3]) 13:30:13 6 13:30:16 oh yeah 13:30:19 ;-) 13:30:22 :: (fold + []) 13:30:22 f 13:30:22 "@ row 1", what a great irc bot feature! 13:30:24 good 13:30:25 :: (fold + [1]) 13:30:26 1 13:30:28 Very nice. 13:30:35 :: (fold * [[1 2 3] [4 5 6]]) 13:30:35 [[1 4] [1 5] [1 6] [2 4] [2 5] [2 6] [3 4] [3 5] [3 6]] 13:30:40 :: (fold * [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]]) 13:30:40 [[1 [4 7]] [1 [4 8]] [1 [4 9]] [1 [5 7]] [1 [5 8]] [1 [5 9]] [1 [6 7]] [1 [6 8]] [1 [6 9]] [2 [4 7]] [2 [4 8]] [2 [4 9]] [2 [5 7]] [2 [5 8]] [2 [5 9]] [2 [6 7]] [2 [6 8]] [2 [6 9]] [3 [4 7]] [3 [4 8]] 13:30:40 :: ({(-> [(: h t) f] (f h (' t f))) (-> [[x] f] x)} [1 2 3 4 5] +) 13:30:40 An error: Atm instance has no attribute 'call' 13:30:42 :| 13:30:45 :: ({(-> [(: h t) f] (f h (' t f))) (-> [[x] f] x)} [1 2 3 4 5] +) 13:30:45 An error: Atm instance has no attribute 'call' 13:30:47 ais523: give up, I beat you :D 13:30:55 "Atm instance"? 13:31:00 shur 13:31:02 ais523: atom 13:31:04 :: ($a 2) 13:31:05 2 13:31:09 i mean, that's ind of right 13:31:10 but yeah 13:31:15 :: ($a 1 2) 13:31:16 f 13:31:20 in conclusion 13:31:20 err :P 13:31:22 anyway, that's total not fold 13:31:22 (= fold {(-> [f [a]] a) (-> [f (: a b)] (f a (' f b)))}) 13:31:27 o 13:31:32 well fold is cooler :D 13:31:35 although you can implement fold from total just by putting an extra element on the end of the list 13:31:49 fyi, two-argument fold 13:31:50 is common 13:32:01 yes, I just like to give it a different name 13:32:14 total is misleading, it does fold 13:32:20 arguably, the fold-with-default needs a special name 13:32:44 :: (fold fold []) 13:32:45 f 13:32:55 :: (fold fold [+ [1 2 3]]) 13:32:55 6 13:33:00 :DDD 13:33:04 :: (fold fold [+ [1 2 3] + [1 2 3]]) 13:33:04 f 13:33:05 errr, that's just confusing. 13:33:16 :: (fold fold [+ + [1 2 3]]) 13:33:17 f 13:33:19 haha wat 13:33:22 :: (fold fold [fold [+ [1 2 3]]]) 13:33:23 6 13:33:24 no idea. 13:33:30 MAKES NO SENSE :D 13:33:33 ais523: so, it's application? 13:33:34 :DD 13:33:39 :: (fold fold [fold [fold [+ [1 2 3]]]]) 13:33:39 6 13:33:43 ehird: of course it is 13:33:46 (fold fold [x y]) -> (x y) 13:33:47 when you have a two-arg list 13:33:47 that's awesome 13:33:49 OKLOTALK-- ONLY MAKES SENSE WHEN USED NICELY. 13:34:08 oklofok: no, that's inherent in the definition of defaultless fold 13:34:12 it would work just as well in Haskell 13:34:33 no it wouldn't 13:34:40 ais523: you sure haskell likes lists with functions and values in them? 13:34:44 as [(+),[1,2,3]] is invalid 13:34:49 oh, forgot about the strict typing 13:34:49 as lists are monotyperated 13:34:52 -!- Hiato has joined. 13:34:53 ... 13:34:59 conclusion: this is AWESOME BEANS PLUS. 13:35:02 it would work in Visual Haskell 13:35:06 wut 13:35:07 how can people forget haskell is strict about types 13:35:08 which has a Variant type, and is otherwise identical 13:35:09 i mean 13:35:16 haskell has a variant type 13:35:20 it's called Any 13:35:22 oklofok: because I've used OCaml 13:35:22 that's what haskell is, being pedantic about types 13:35:29 although it's gh 13:35:29 c 13:35:33 also http://www.haskell.org/visualhaskell/ 13:35:34 Haskell is a breath of fresh air compared to it in terms of type dicipline 13:35:44 ehird: well, I was just trying to pun on Visual Basic 13:35:57 * Hiato wonders who it was that used arch here 13:36:02 Hiato: too many idiots. 13:36:06 mostly AnMaster :P 13:36:13 archlinux? 13:36:20 yes. 13:36:22 Hiato: AnMaster ported C-INTERCAL to Arch 13:36:26 * oklofok has heard of that 13:36:27 although I don't know if he actually uses it 13:36:41 not a port. 13:36:48 ehird: well, just a build library 13:36:49 he just added some lines into a packagefile. 13:36:52 *package file 13:36:54 porting is easy if you don't have to change the source 13:37:03 ais523, I use arch on one system. And yes it was just making a package 13:37:20 so porting would be the wrong word 13:38:58 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:38:58 "1""2""3" 13:40:14 -!- Hiato1 has joined. 13:40:35 :: "["+(fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1""2""3"]))+"]" 13:40:35 An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. 13:40:37 er wait 13:40:46 :: (("["+(fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ _ "\""))} ["1""2""3"])))+"]") 13:40:46 An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. 13:40:50 fuckit 13:40:50 :: (fold + (map {(-> "\"" "\"\\\"\" ") (-> "\\" "\"\\\\\" ") (-> x (+ "\"" (+ _ "\"")))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:40:51 "1""2""3" 13:40:57 :: (fold + (map {(-> "\"" "\"\\\"\" ") (-> "\\" "\"\\\\\" ") (-> x (+ "\"" (+ _ "\" ")))} ["1" "2" "3"])) 13:40:57 "1" "2" "3" 13:41:06 :: (fold + (map {(-> "\"" "\"\\\"\" ") (-> "\\" "\"\\\\\" ") (-> x (+ "\"" (+ _ "\" ")))} ["1" "2" "3" "\"" "\\"])) 13:41:07 "1" "2" "3" "\"" "\\" 13:41:30 :: [1 2 3] 13:41:30 [1 2 3] 13:41:37 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:41:38 :: [1 .. 5] 13:41:39 [1 .. 5] 13:41:40 :< 13:42:17 oklotalk-- is for real men 13:43:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:43:27 :: (= range {(-> [x x] -> []) (-> [x y] ([x] + (range (x+1) y)))}) 13:43:27 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:43:36 :: (= range {(-> [x x] []) (-> [x y] ([x] + (range (x+1) y)))}) 13:43:37 An error: Application consists of 2 or 3 expressions. 13:43:40 butts. 13:43:46 :: (= .. {(-> [a a] [1]) (-> [a b] (+ [a] (' (+ a 1) b)))}) 13:43:46 <<<22016608>>> 13:43:49 :: (.. 1 7) 13:43:50 [1 2 3 4 5 6 1] 13:43:54 err... 13:44:04 :: (= .. {(-> [a a] [a]) (-> [a b] (+ [a] (' (+ a 1) b)))}) 13:44:04 <<<22017008>>> 13:44:09 :: (.. 1 7) 13:44:09 [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] 13:44:11 :: (.. -12 42) 13:44:12 An error: maximum recursion depth exceeded 13:44:15 xD 13:44:17 well. 13:44:18 :: (.. 1 2) 13:44:18 [1 2] 13:44:25 :: (6 .. 9) 13:44:25 f 13:44:30 awesome 13:44:32 ... 13:44:33 wtf 13:44:52 well 6 handles [.. 9] 13:44:57 lol 13:45:05 currently all handles all except for atoms 13:45:14 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ ((-> "\"" "\\\"") (-> "\\" "\\\\") (-> x x)) "\""))} ["1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" ])) 13:45:14 An error: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'clbl' 13:45:22 ? 13:45:24 xD 13:45:28 errors are so helpful <3 13:45:37 ais523: i'm not sure what that means. 13:45:47 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ ({(-> "\"" "\\\"") (-> "\\" "\\\\") (-> x x)) "\"")} _)} ["1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" ])) 13:45:48 An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. 13:45:48 i mean that's an unwrapped python error 13:45:59 well. 13:46:06 ((->... doesn't look right 13:46:25 you clearly have paren errors there 13:46:30 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ ({(-> "\"" "\\\"") (-> "\\" "\\\\") (-> x x)} _) "\"")} ["1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" ])) 13:46:30 An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. 13:46:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:46:43 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ ({(-> "\"" "\\\"") (-> "\\" "\\\\") (-> x x)} _) "\""))} ["1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" ])) 13:46:43 "1""2""\"""\\""3" 13:46:50 :: (fold + (map {(+ "\"" (+ ({(-> "\"" "\\\"") (-> "\\" "\\\\") (-> x x)} _) "\" "))} ["1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" ])) 13:46:51 "1" "2" "\"" "\\" "3" 13:48:34 :: 13:48:40 :: <---> 13:48:41 f 13:48:43 :: <------> 13:48:44 f 13:48:46 Heh 13:48:49 -!- ais523 has quit ("mibbit.com: lectures"). 13:49:44 :: fol 13:49:44 fol 13:49:47 hm. 13:49:52 :: oklocrap 13:49:53 oklocrap 13:49:53 :: %%# 13:49:53 %%# 13:51:34 "There are 4 primitive datatypes: integer, string, list, atom and thing." 13:51:40 Isn't that 5? 13:51:45 :DD 13:51:58 maybe, maybe :) 13:53:14 :D 13:53:23 oklotalk-- is one of my favourite languages 13:53:25 Things are clever 13:53:35 thingz <33 13:53:54 i wanna implement some muture :<<< 13:54:57 wut is muture again 13:55:12 www.vjn.fi/oklopol/muture.txt 13:55:25 it's the search thingie stuff 13:55:49 wat 13:55:55 :--) 13:56:30 ">> expr" maximizes expr given the some nondeterministic choices the interp can make in evaluating expre. 13:56:32 *expr 13:56:39 >> \[1 3 5 2] 13:56:43 would evaluate to 5 13:56:52 \list means an elem of list 13:57:05 :: (= x 42) 13:57:06 42 13:57:09 :: x 13:57:10 42 13:57:11 :D 13:58:28 wow, it's a number :) 13:59:25 the problem is of course it's pretty goddamn hard to implement, tried once, crapped my pants. 14:17:08 -!- Mony has joined. 14:19:13 plop 14:19:47 indeed 14:20:21 -!- Hiato1 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:29:30 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:29:36 -!- moozilla has joined. 14:37:12 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCException: MigoMipo out of IRC"). 15:18:09 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:50:30 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:51:50 I've just implemented RSSB in Redcode and I'm looking for a new project 16:53:11 cool 17:01:05 Any suggestions. I'd prefer stack or cell based, minimal instruction set and relative addressing! 17:03:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:03:59 Well, bf fits that but is boring. 17:06:46 Someone already did bf in redcode 17:07:17 Someone already did brainfuck in everything 17:08:39 I want one of these for esoteric programming langs http://www.levenez.com/lang/lang.pdf :-) 17:09:42 What do you mean "for"? 17:09:46 Interpreter or interpretee? 17:11:10 The interpreter will be written in Redcode 17:18:11 -!- FireyFly has joined. 17:32:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:33:04 wb me 17:41:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:42:26 yoohoo i've got a part in the topic 17:42:34 hi oerjan 17:42:49 tip of the hat to you Mr. ais523 17:45:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:47:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:49:11 impomatic: Pick and choose -> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Language_list 17:50:50 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:51:00 Too many to choose from! 17:51:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:51:50 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:52:18 i can see if there's a beheader.... 17:52:33 scary 17:52:37 hmm... so who's impomatic, then? 17:52:44 impomatic: there's also the random page button 17:52:47 this channel is getting new members so fast it's scary 17:53:03 and hi 17:53:09 For now I've looked through the Hello World implementations for a language I like the look of 17:53:10 since most pages are on a single language, should be nearly the same 17:53:41 and if it hits something you aren't looking for, you can always click again 17:54:09 ais523: new here. I'm a redcode programmer 17:54:15 hm hello world is not good for unlambda, say, the structure is trivial 17:54:18 ah, interesting 17:54:32 so doesn't really show it 17:54:36 oerjan: hello world works best to show how languages manage string handling, and what the basic syntax is 17:54:51 I mean, lots of different languages could just have "Hello, world!" as a hello world program 17:54:57 in all sorts of different paradigms 17:55:00 :: "Hello, world!" 17:55:01 Hello, world! 17:55:08 ^ul (Hello, world!)S 17:55:09 Hello, world! 17:55:09 indeed 17:55:15 ^bf ,[.,]!Hello, world! 17:55:15 Hello, world! 17:55:19 three rather different langs 17:55:23 and yet the programs look pretty similar 17:55:42 99bob is at least good for control flow 17:56:15 impomatic: if you're interested in redcode might i suggest FuckYourBrane (iirc)? 17:56:22 FukYorBrane 17:56:31 but there's a fatal bug in it if you don't limit program length 17:56:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:56:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:56:48 there's also Brainfuck Joust, which has become popular over at Agora recently 17:56:52 someone should add it to the esowiki, really 17:57:10 ais523: well the bf hello world with ! is cheating 17:57:15 yes, I know 17:57:22 without ! I don't have it memorised, though 17:57:28 ^show 17:57:29 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help 17:57:38 and why is there not a hello world in fungot's program list? 17:57:39 ais523: for s in (find prefix -type fnord do if -z instrarrayid then echo " /star does not point to get_install" then echo " double fnord else fnord 17:57:45 indeed 17:57:47 ^show rot13 17:57:47 ,[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+14<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>>+5[<-5>-]<2-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+ 17:57:59 hmm... that's not the whole program 17:58:01 !show choo 17:58:07 ^show choo 17:58:07 >,[>,]+32[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>] 17:58:13 ACHOO 17:58:17 IMO, BF's strong point is simple text processing 17:59:25 ^help 17:59:25 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 17:59:33 ^def hw bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+. 17:59:33 Defined. 17:59:37 ^hw 17:59:38 ^hw 17:59:38 Hello World! 17:59:38 Hello World! 17:59:45 oerjan: snap 17:59:51 (pasted from wiki) 17:59:59 I was going to ask if that's the esowiki's version 18:00:12 it looks like it, it has too many loops to be the EgoBot version 18:00:13 oerjan: thanks, I'll take a look shortly 18:00:33 yeah it doesn't use the several cell initialization 18:01:12 fizzie: is it necessary to save new commands explicitly? 18:01:20 oerjan: not IIRC 18:01:25 you could always read the source to find out 18:01:27 ^source 18:01:27 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 18:02:53 * ais523 decides that right now, he /is/ insane enough to find the particular relevant bit of fungot's code 18:02:54 ais523: i'm already sobbing!! 18:03:46 fungot: how rational of you 18:03:47 oerjan: they really don't dare open anything else for some time now i know smthg abt the differences fnord mit-scheme n other schemes too. 18:05:00 btw about earlier this morning - does anyone know a non-terminating ski expression without parentheses? 18:05:18 (when i was talking to myself) 18:05:37 hmm... which way does SKI associate when written normally? 18:05:44 left 18:05:47 I'm far too used to Unlambda to know that off by heart 18:05:57 as in, SII = ((S I) I) ? 18:06:02 yes 18:06:37 well, there isn't an obvious solution that I can see 18:06:41 although there might well be a subtle one 18:06:48 do you think just fuzzing would discover one? 18:06:53 starting with sii was useless at least 18:07:04 yep 18:07:12 because you may as well just write whatever it's applied to twice 18:07:30 and just s's didn't work, even though s's tend to make things complicated in general 18:07:36 ah, I was wondering about just Ss 18:07:52 K is a simplifier, although simplifiers may help for loops 18:07:56 sssssss -> ss(ss)sss -> ss(sss)ss -> ss(ssss)s -> ss(sssss) 18:07:57 and S is a complicator 18:09:51 summing up from this morning, it must start with ss, siks or siss 18:09:59 It is necessary to use ^save, yes. 18:10:00 anything else simplifies 18:10:01 ^save 18:10:01 OK. 18:10:07 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 18:10:13 thanks 18:10:43 let's see... we know it starts with s 18:10:47 as starting with i is redundant 18:10:53 and starting with k is doubly redundant 18:11:05 therefore, it's S x y z and possibly more combinators 18:11:10 starting with sk is also redundant 18:11:11 which is ((x z) (y z)) 18:11:20 no it isn't? 18:11:28 ah, yes it is 18:11:30 yes it is, skx == i 18:11:34 you just get i 18:11:51 and starting with sii we've already demonstrated is redundant 18:11:56 so ss, sik, or sis 18:11:59 and i looked at si this morning 18:12:10 sixy must have y=s 18:12:18 so you get z (s z) 18:12:29 and x!=i as you noticed 18:12:30 where z is the next term 18:12:32 wait, no 18:12:36 umm... 18:12:50 sixs = ((i s) (x s)) 18:12:53 = s (x s) 18:13:07 oerjan: well, I think serialised SKI counts as a new esolang 18:13:14 I wonder if it's usable, or if it's a new subtle cough? 18:13:29 my thought exactly 18:14:23 what if it starts with ss? 18:14:35 siks = s(ks), siss = s(ss) 18:14:52 ssxy = ((s y) (x y)) 18:14:55 which doesn't evaluate further 18:15:06 ssxyz = (s y) (x y) (z) 18:15:07 which does 18:15:16 yeah that was the trouble with just s's, tend to gobble up arguments 18:15:33 it becomes (yz)((xy)z) 18:15:49 I think the trick may be to s a lot to generate complicated bracketing patterns 18:15:54 then after that fill it with an s/k/i mix 18:16:00 to get the arguments into the pattern we need 18:17:04 ssxszy = sz((xs)z)y 18:17:29 = (zy)(((xs)z)y) 18:17:36 I think I'm beginning to spot a pattern here 18:17:56 What's going on with the birds? 18:18:03 not birds in particular 18:18:12 the problem is to make an SKI infinite loop 18:18:18 with the restriction that the entire thing has to left-associate 18:18:33 so sii(sii) is out because it needs that pair of parens 18:21:58 "Flattening Combinators: Surviving Without Parentheses, Chris Okasaki, JFP03" 18:22:07 sounds promising :D 18:22:29 HAMMER IT FLAT 18:22:29 oerjan: does it just use backquotes instead, I wonder? 18:22:52 Is unlambda that popular that people know of those conventions though? 18:23:00 probably not 18:23:02 I don't recall PN with ` anywhere else 18:23:07 although I know I think of combinators with backquotes not parens 18:23:08 i think that's unlikely for a JFP submission... 18:23:57 eek postscript 18:24:12 oerjan: can't you read postscript? 18:24:21 Hm. 18:24:36 not easily. 18:24:48 I have at least two postscript readers on here 18:24:52 quite probably 3 18:25:53 From the original article of combinators : 'If we now take the form F§U as a point of departure, then, by means of Z alone, F can be transformed in such a way that all parenthesis disappear. By means of C, Z and S, therefore, every formula of logic can be written without parenthesis as a simple sequence of these signs" 18:26:02 FU* 18:26:09 hmm... which combinators are C and Z? 18:28:10 C is K, Z is... Zxyz = x(yz), S is S. 18:28:40 well, Z is cheating in this particular instance 18:28:54 because clearly it lets you mess with associativity at will 18:29:00 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:29:09 Don't diss the Schonfinkel man himself. 18:29:15 ok 18:29:26 I mean, Schonfinkel's idea was really clever in that context 18:29:37 funny: http://rafb.net/p/L2FgYp89.html (I added the comment) 18:29:37 however, trying to port it into another context fails in this case 18:29:51 but what is the true wtf 18:30:14 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:30:18 ais523, ^ 18:30:25 AnMaster: is postfunc declared volatile? 18:30:47 that's the only real hope of sanity here 18:30:48 ais523, no 18:30:55 ais523, it is a local auto variable 18:31:02 is closefunc local or global? 18:31:06 not that it really matters 18:31:07 local too 18:31:23 (it will get put into a struct that is constructed a bit below 18:31:30 ais523, clearly a case of copy-and-paste error 18:31:33 yes 18:31:42 the right way would be to use macros to avoid code duplication too 18:31:43 the second and third ifs are unreachable, aren't they 18:32:03 yes, and the second one should check closefunc, and the third one should be removed 18:32:27 well, I agree with you that that looks like the obvious fix 18:32:29 what's that from>? 18:33:28 ais523, crossfire 18:33:35 I was debugging another issue when I ran into that 18:38:11 oh dear 18:38:13 http://www.xsharp.org/ 18:38:35 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 18:38:50 * ais523 tries to figure out what paradigm it is 18:39:34 hmm... looks imperative 18:40:06 wow interesting 18:40:09 but they implemented functional programming too 18:40:17 ais523, the desc sounds "tree rewriting" 18:40:21 it isn't, though 18:40:24 heh ok 18:40:54 or is it? 18:40:56 I'm confused 18:40:59 it seems to use append-child a lot 18:41:48 heh, the wiki's main page is 18:41:49 #REDIRECT [[X Sharp on wheels]] 18:42:38 and the protection level of the original main page is move/edit at autoconfirmed 18:42:42 so anons can't even fix those problems 18:42:56 someone's gone to the effort of getting autoconfirmed, then vandlising it... 18:44:26 This is only slightly more annoying than LOLCODE. 18:47:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 18:56:28 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 19:09:48 A 19:10:05 ehird: there is no response to that. You win already. 19:10:05 B 19:10:15 now, stop using such a degenerate opening 19:10:21 still, you have to say B 19:10:33 :D 19:10:36 -!- ais523 has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic; d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric; e) the letter game. 19:12:00 "the channel that is more than gay sex" 19:13:38 PONG 19:13:45 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic; d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric; e) the letter game. 19:13:48 er 19:13:55 ehird: ? 19:14:01 -!- ehird has set topic: a) oko; b) the swatter; c) messing with the topic; d) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric; e) the letter game; f) gay sex. occasionally.. 19:14:07 now it is a complete description 19:14:21 ok, I admit that's a #esoteric meme 19:14:25 although I don't like it 19:14:33 and it's hardly unique to #esoteric like some of the others are 19:14:45 well, I suppose messing with the topic isn't a #esoteric-specific meme 19:14:49 what about the goat sacrifices? 19:14:49 the loglink possibly is, though 19:14:57 oerjan: they never really caught on 19:15:12 they're still new aren't they 19:15:22 and we only use it when there are newbies 19:15:52 ais523: gay sex is certainly a recurring theme here, you can't deny it :P 19:15:59 I didn't 19:16:00 we must be objective. 19:16:10 I just tried to redefine the inclusion criteria instead 19:16:17 also, don't scare off the new peopel 19:16:30 the new people need thicker skin to survive here :-P 19:16:31 would probably be silly to add esolangs to the list? 19:16:42 oklofok: when do we talk about esolangs? 19:16:42 oklofok: those aren't exactly a meme 19:16:43 exactly. 19:16:46 they're what the channel is for 19:16:50 "languages. occasionally programming ones." 19:17:02 that's #linguistics. 19:17:02 ais523: not talking about esolangs, though, is. 19:17:07 yes 19:17:08 somewhat 19:17:22 not that i like that one either :P 19:17:29 lament: does #linguistics still have a strict anti-gay-sex policy? 19:20:47 adadasdasdasd 19:20:49 dfsddddddddddddddddddddd 19:23:38 -!- olsner has joined. 19:35:24 a 19:36:26 c 19:36:29 d 19:36:34 t 19:36:59 v 19:37:04 * 19:37:06 z 19:37:06 z 19:37:07 z 19:37:08 m 19:37:10 z 19:37:15 p 19:37:17 $% 19:37:36 FOUL! 19:37:43 no 19:37:46 that is valid perl code 19:37:48 i 19:37:50 valid after a z-onslaught 19:37:54 k 19:37:57 ? 19:38:02 z 19:38:08 ni 19:38:37 ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 19:38:47 FOWL! 19:39:04 yep, I win 19:39:07 due to the perl maneuver 19:39:09 right? 19:39:19 s/win/lose 19:39:26 what? 19:40:00 why? 19:40:23 to see how long it takes someone to add the final slash 19:40:26 Because look at the rules, oerjan 19:40:36 RULE 1 : ehird loses 19:40:43 Slereah: buy a real rulebook, lamer. 19:40:49 ais523: see p645, section 9 19:41:01 ehird: in the ANSI or ISO edition? 19:41:09 the rules are the same, but the page numbering is different... 19:41:12 Jekyll & Montgomery 19:41:22 Third.FirstFourth edition 19:42:11 wait i only have the DVD version 19:42:57 that works too 19:43:03 just use the xref tool included 19:43:10 which translates various reference numbers 19:43:23 with appendix by Hyde & Seech 19:43:39 sorry, I'll just the standardized numbering system from now on (you know, they put it in a whole other spec because none of the specs are consistent enough...) 19:44:37 the standard with arabic numerals or the one with babylonian numerals? 19:45:09 arabic, since we're modern people here. 19:45:21 yeah i know the last one is really only used on MSN, and is overcomplicated 19:45:47 let's have a rematch... with the swatter 19:45:49 >:D 19:45:52 d 19:46:41 n 19:46:55 n 19:47:11 hm clever move 19:47:18 ha 19:47:18 foul 19:47:24 now I have the swatter 19:47:28 k 19:47:30 no you don't! 19:47:34 sure i do 19:47:39 the swatter must not be used for games! 19:47:46 19:45 < ehird> let's have a rematch... with the swatter 19:47:53 im not talking about the physical swatter 19:48:00 see p1333, section 8 19:48:03 oh 19:48:12 ah but then you still lose 19:48:21 you said "foul" rather than "swat" 19:48:29 i didn't have the swatter 19:48:31 so i couldn't swat 19:48:32 only foul 19:48:34 gainign me the swatter 19:48:45 hm... 19:48:55 Z 19:49:00 Q 19:49:07 § 19:49:13 Ã¥ 19:49:19 e 19:49:24 î 19:49:42 w 19:49:46 w 19:49:51 w 19:50:04 * ehird swats oerjan for making a triplication ---### 19:50:08 v 19:50:15 v 19:50:19 a 19:50:26 foul 19:50:31 a 19:50:35 [nice try, but that was no foul] 19:50:45 sure it was, the triplication was a trap 19:51:01 right but the letter differenciation was 3 19:51:02 after it you have to triplicate, see p983 19:51:11 oh, you're right 19:51:15 ok, swatter goes back to you 19:51:25 R 19:51:38 R 19:51:45 r 19:51:50 o 19:51:53 b 19:51:58 b 19:52:00 e 19:52:08 b 19:52:15 2 19:52:22 Irish people are often green. 19:52:25 * ehird steals swatter 19:52:32 2 19:52:34 (Irish trick, see p1334 section 9) 19:52:37 3 19:52:52 3 19:52:53 s 19:52:56 s 19:53:01 foul 19:53:04 whaaaaaaaaat 19:53:14 after the irish trick you have to do consonant mutation 19:53:22 dammit 19:53:28 swatter goes back to you 19:53:30 hey ais523 19:53:33 participate :P 19:53:51 nn 19:53:55 nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 19:53:58 meh, too busy trying to prove a slightly modified version of Russel's Paradox to be self-contradictory 19:54:15 19 19:54:28 A(g64,g64) 19:54:38 [triple score for letters+numbers+mathematical expression] 19:54:58 darn i lose, i cannot make enough letters on irc to answer that 19:55:05 yay 19:55:07 oklofok: 19:56:15 i still say the rules don't take irc properly into account, the internet appendices are really only suitable for email 19:56:32 nah, the email game is obsolete 19:56:35 it relies on real-time, really 19:56:44 oerjan: i suggest Wadler's book 19:56:58 wadler plays this game? 19:57:07 it's a 100 page or so summary of little things to know when playing over realtime communication like irc 19:57:15 hm was it he who made the haskell ai for it? 19:57:22 I believe so 19:57:28 unfortunately it's a bit slow 19:57:31 so not really suited to irc. 19:57:33 yeah 19:57:52 if it wasn't they'd have amended the rules 19:58:04 to make it slower and prevent cheating 19:58:09 well naturally. it's like... the most antagonistic rule committee ever :-D 19:58:14 but we luv em. 19:59:04 yeah putting paul graham in the committee was not such a great idea 19:59:13 good thing they kicked him out in 2004 19:59:30 i mean seriously can you remember oerjan? 19:59:33 "my arc AI is sooo fast" 19:59:39 well that was one good thing that came out of the haskell ai 19:59:41 did he ever contribute a non-reverted rule? 20:00:08 he did some quine-based ones 20:00:28 nobody uses them do they? 20:00:44 nobody understands them 20:01:02 500 lines of incomprehensible symbols 20:01:07 heh 20:01:16 well i guess people in this channel could decipher it 20:02:57 i mean _technically_ one of them is official, but no one has ever managed to call that rule without using an AI 20:03:13 did the ai produce a pretty parse tree? 20:03:16 that would help 20:03:25 which of course means disqualification in most tournaments 20:03:45 meh, this is a #esoteric tournament 20:03:49 it should be allowed here 20:03:49 except the RobLet Cup 20:03:53 but only if written in an esolang 20:03:59 heh 20:04:12 in fact, I propose that right now, as 270:A 20:04:25 not a nomic :P 20:04:37 propose it to the committee, or we can just bend rules to it 20:04:40 but proposing is cheating 20:04:48 there's a house rule provision but it has to be anonymous 20:04:59 can't be anonymous on irc, really 20:05:00 so. 20:05:17 would have been unanimous but a misspelling crept through 20:05:27 :-D 20:05:42 oerjan: for a laugh look at p2457 20:05:50 it's written in a special font 20:05:52 all italics 20:05:53 oerjan: don't, it's a goatse 20:05:56 and the rule parts are so nested 20:06:00 that they have to use differing font size 20:06:02 to disambiguate 20:06:08 ais523: similar effect on the brain... 20:06:26 the fractal maze rule, yeah i've seen it 20:06:44 oerjan: also, one of the first uses of monads outside of category theory 20:06:49 i think it won some art prize 20:06:51 it's actually structured as a monadic operation 20:06:53 if you look closely 20:07:12 um it's that old? 20:07:16 yeah 20:07:19 been revised of course 20:07:30 it would have to be from before the 90s 20:07:47 yes 20:07:52 it's from 1980-something 20:08:30 oerjan: p329 is from the *1970s*, unchanged... 20:08:33 err, typo 20:08:37 3329 20:09:21 actually the page number was changed. there were only 2000 pages before they computerized the rules 20:09:33 yeah but they did that really early on 20:09:34 late 70s 20:09:42 so it's expanded a lot by now 20:10:14 i hear the next edition won't fit on an ordinary DVD 20:10:21 um it does? 20:10:26 barely 20:10:28 oh right, the old text version 20:10:30 hyper-compressed 20:10:32 on a large dvd 20:10:38 oerjan: you have the multi-dvd version I assume? 20:10:42 since you know about the formatting 20:10:57 well, you have to really 20:11:07 ehird: meh, you just need the multi-dvd compression algorithm 20:11:18 which can decode the entire ruleset from the picture of Lenna 20:11:25 oh not that joke again 20:11:30 puhleeze, that got old in 1999 20:11:36 ehird: I made it in reverse this time 20:11:46 You can decode pretty much anything from the picture of Lenna 20:11:47 oh, right 20:11:47 sorry 20:11:49 I know from experience 20:11:54 lament: creepy 20:12:16 now, really creepy would have been if AnMaster had got that joke before my explanation 20:12:22 whilst ehird still needed one... 20:12:42 ais523: yeah um the likelyhood of that is 0. 20:12:50 i just misread 20:12:50 only because AnMaster is idle 20:13:01 i just misread, sheesh 20:13:08 i just have one DVD. it's the special internet version leaving out the physical play rules. 20:13:25 oerjan: wait, the internet is just an appendix 20:13:27 oh, wait, that one 20:13:30 that one is actually a trick 20:13:35 it downloads the complete rules from the internet 20:13:40 that's why the install takes so long 20:13:41 no wonder oerjan's been doing so badly all this time 20:13:46 no 20:13:48 he has the full rules 20:13:48 rubbish, my disk is not that large 20:13:56 oerjan: yes, the disk just downloads the rules 20:14:02 bit of a ripoff :P 20:14:09 my _hard_disk_ is not that large 20:14:14 oh right 20:14:16 well how big is it 20:14:22 the rules fit compressed on a few dvds 20:14:25 so unless your hd is tiny... 20:14:45 55 GB 20:14:50 that's big enough 20:16:37 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 20:16:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:17:12 someone highlighted me? 20:17:40 no 20:17:42 no they didn't 20:17:47 AnMaster: they were discussing a joke you couldn't possibly have got 20:17:56 or something like that, anyway 20:19:02 well I actually know about Lenna, but I would have thought ais got it the wrong way round instead realising that he meant it as that. 20:19:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:19:10 afk again 20:24:00 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:28:00 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:28:26 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:28:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2charist 20:29:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:38:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:38:24 ehird, wow 20:39:39 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:41:55 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:42:19 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 20:46:00 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit"). 20:53:57 yay, they finally fixed MediaWiki bug 10569 20:54:01 and I only reported it in 2007 20:54:14 not that it's a particularly important one 20:54:22 I only found it deliberately trying to provoke a failure mode 20:54:36 but still, I can imagine a vandal having used it for something malicious 20:55:14 what was it? 20:56:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:56:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:57:33 yay i guessed correct what the two most common letters are when measured by amount of google results for 20 of those characters. 20:57:44 :-D 20:57:51 first is trivial to guess 20:58:55 after second i though mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm might be third, but there i went wrong 20:59:23 what did you guess? 20:59:33 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? 20:59:33 well x is the first of course 20:59:37 w is the second. 20:59:37 ... wat 20:59:42 seriously? 20:59:44 wgat 20:59:44 XD 21:00:06 x means "unspecified", w i guessed based on www being a common acronym :P 21:00:24 i'm not sure that's the reason. point is i was right, not why i was right. 21:00:44 I thought AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH or something would top 21:01:03 awwwwwwwwwwwwwww 21:01:28 let's just say loads of letters 20 times in here so google indexes them 21:01:29 :P 21:01:55 \o/ 21:01:59 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:00 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:00 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:01 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:01 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:02 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:17 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:18 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:18 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:20 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:20 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:22 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:02:25 oooooooooooooooooooo 21:05:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 21:06:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:08:23 ^ul (o):::***::::****( )*(~:S~:^):^ 21:08:24 oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo ...too much output! 21:11:06 -!- ais523_ has joined. 21:11:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:11:40 ugh, they didn't even fix the actual bug 21:11:46 just its symptoms 21:11:48 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 21:11:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:13:12 ais523: link 21:13:29 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10569 21:16:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 21:17:00 [[Redirects to Special:Mypage and Special:Mytalk are no longer allowed]] 21:17:02 painful 21:17:06 can we murder the mediawiki devs? 21:17:17 the problem is, there might be other pages with the same problem 21:17:19 now or in the future 21:17:35 the problem is, there might be other mediawiki devs, now or in the future 21:17:55 again, let's kill MW devs. 21:18:05 OK, the fix makes the list configurable 21:18:19 and there are some special pages which shouldn't be redirectable-to, like Special:Userlogout 21:19:52 Special:LaunchMissiles 21:19:59 ais523: wait, does that work on wikipedia? 21:20:06 I may have to give in to my inner vandal... 21:20:25 ehird: no 21:20:35 all redirs to special pages are blocked on Wikipedia 21:20:38 dammit. wait, are you only saying that because of [[WP:BEANS]]? 21:20:52 [[I see a featured article on Washington D.C., and the image File:Obama_Portrait_2006.jpg on the Main Page. This is absolutely ridiculous -- the U.S. is not the only country in the world, and filling the Main Page just because of the upcoming inauguration is obviously a violation of NPOV. 21:20:58 ]] 21:21:00 *facepalm* 21:21:00 no, WP:BEANS technically says "Don't tell people not to do something, because they'll be certain to try" 21:21:24 nothing about not giving vandalism hints, although there are good reasons not to do that either 21:21:59 -!- adimit has quit ("leaving"). 21:23:27 -!- adimit has joined. 21:23:50 move to Wikipedia:Main Page 21:23:50 shouldn't this page moved out of the article Space? this is only one of some Wikipedia-related things, so please put it into the Wikipedia: namespace, thanks. --84.44.177.212 (talk) 14:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC) 21:23:54 oh no... 21:24:22 Portal: 21:24:24 please, Portal 21:24:28 that's what it's designed for 21:24:43 I saw you in one of those debates about it from like 2006 a while ago 21:24:47 Typical ais523 :-P 21:25:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:REMOVE_THIS_TEMPLATE_WHEN_CLOSING_THIS_AfD 21:25:34 name 21:25:35 ever 21:25:37 best 21:25:40 template 21:25:42 ehird: iirc moving the Main Page has been discussed before 21:25:46 especially since it has nothing to do with its naming, other than being useful in the source 21:25:50 oerjan: I know, thus "oh no" 21:25:52 the debates were... heated 21:26:06 ehird: sorry about that 21:26:09 the name sort-of stuck 21:26:19 wait you made it? 21:26:27 I had to invent a migration path for AfD that people could follow without breaking anything and without realising it was happening 21:26:30 and yes, I made it 21:26:33 ha 21:26:45 although I wasn't an admin back then 21:27:05 istr someone pondering what would happen if something noteable with the name "Main Page" appeared 21:27:06 "Starting to implement Wikipedia:AfD reform. This template is initially blank so that the process can be started without interfering with AfD." 21:27:11 :-D 21:27:12 that happens a lot 21:27:28 AfD? 21:27:38 Articles for Deletion. 21:28:08 aaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxxxxxxxxccccccvbnm,. 21:28:11 the heavyweight process for deleting things that not even admins can get away with just arbitrarily deleting 21:28:16 OOH! I wanna make an esolang. 21:28:22 I just remembered, you know. 21:28:24 Esolangs! 21:28:37 I may or may not be forgetful <_________< 21:29:43 a forgetful esolang! 21:29:47 You know, slashdot would be better if it wasn't so impossible to read the comments. 21:29:50 call it GoldFish 21:29:59 (yeah i know it's a myth) 21:29:59 oerjan: yes 21:30:08 oerjan: although the new standard is Digg users 21:30:18 Mark Pilgrim proved that Digg's memory is shorter than a goldfishes 21:30:20 scientifically 21:30:27 oo 21:30:31 http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/10/02/digg 21:32:18 i like the striked out Japanese Chinese 21:32:48 -!- adimit has left (?). 21:40:12 hmm 21:40:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:40:25 is there a turing-complete OISC with only one operand? 21:40:40 yes, http://esolangs.org/wiki/RSSB 21:40:46 ok, what about _no_ operands? 21:40:51 ehird: how many operands would you say MiniMAX has? 21:41:04 not sure 21:41:09 let me check 21:41:14 Word of data to send to the previous command 21:41:18 so, definitely >0 21:42:19 hmm 21:42:24 maybe something stack-based 21:44:33 one instruction, no operands, er that leaves very little actual information content... 21:45:48 oerjan: hardcoded data 21:45:51 can drive it 21:46:19 um then the real program is the data, surely 21:46:26 no 21:46:30 because the amount of times it runs differs 21:46:42 you sequence it 21:46:45 cmd ; cmd ; cmd 21:46:49 data: "&*^&*^~HDCUJ" 21:46:50 ehird: the problem with MiniMAX is that the operands sort of blur between different commmands 21:46:56 although they're definitely there 21:47:03 also, the program is the data 21:47:17 both 21:47:23 the programs is the ocruances of cmd + the data 21:47:34 i mangled that. 21:47:54 ehird the evil mangler 21:48:18 no, that's ghc's Literate Perl script 21:48:23 (it mangles gcc's assembly output) 21:48:27 and yes, literate perl 21:48:30 comments are default 21:48:34 it's filtered before using 21:48:54 ehird: you could just do that with a source filter 21:49:23 no 21:49:27 they run perl on it, IIRC 21:49:30 to get the perl script 21:49:38 why not? 21:49:55 that's what a source filter /is/ 21:50:19 they don't use a source filter 21:50:42 ais523: then it wouldn't be as evil, duh 21:53:59 Literate Perl? 21:54:01 So evil 22:00:34 literate perl? is that when you have alphanumerics in your source? 22:01:56 groan 22:01:59 -!- Corun has joined. 22:04:15 -!- adimit has joined. 22:16:22 -!- Max_D has joined. 22:20:28 xP 22:20:36 hi 22:20:58 hello 22:22:56 hello, are you Max Demian from the wiki? 22:25:02 if so, nice of you to make an omgrofl implementation just as hope of retrieving the original was lost 22:25:33 ALLLLLL HOOOOOPE 22:25:53 also, it's very funny to see LOLCODE beaten at its own game 22:25:53 by almost a yea 22:25:53 *year 22:26:04 i _specifically_ rubbed out the word "all", after typing it 22:26:21 i supposed technically someone _could_ have mirrored it 22:26:43 oerjan: I thought the location at which all hope was lost was the entrance to Malbolge 22:26:49 Wiki is down :( 22:26:53 no it's not 22:27:03 er wait 22:27:21 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 22:27:23 it just locked up 22:27:32 sorry, went afk, yeah I am Max Demian from the wiki 22:27:46 oerjan: it's working for me I think 22:27:55 me too, it was just temporary 22:28:04 works now 22:28:47 yeah, I have lots of free time, lol. playing with omgrofl just seemed like a good time killer, lol 22:28:47 I want to kill the creator of LOLCode. 22:28:49 :| 22:29:48 ehird: HAI. I CAN HAS AXE IN SKULL? 22:30:03 oerjan: YES WE CAN 22:30:05 KTHXBYE 22:30:57 CAN HAZ, surely? 22:31:02 or is LOLCODE behind the times? 22:31:15 ais523: i'm not entirely fluent 22:31:20 I'm going to write GoL in Haskell. :-D 22:31:25 GoL? 22:31:30 Game of Life. 22:31:33 ok 22:31:35 Step one: neighboursFold 22:31:39 A fold, but includes neighbours. 22:31:48 why not implement the rest of RedGreen while you're at it? 22:31:51 or ALPACA, fwiw? 22:31:53 meh 22:31:56 GoL is simpler 22:31:57 the ALPACA reference interp is rubbish 22:32:17 hmm... 22:32:25 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 22:32:26 I think Lahey Space is a good fit for GoL. 22:32:30 i.e., wrapping neighbours, but infinite field 22:32:43 good grief 22:32:55 what 22:32:58 ehird: it wouldn't make a difference 22:33:06 ais523: why not? 22:33:07 Lahey space wrapping only matters when you project rays 22:33:11 you have a cell at the top bound 22:33:13 and at the bottom 22:33:18 the top cell has the bottom as a neighbour 22:33:20 and vise-versa 22:33:20 oh, it's bounded? 22:33:21 is what I mean 22:33:22 BUT 22:33:22 despite being infinite? 22:33:27 if the cell went higher 22:33:30 it'd still have the same neighbour 22:33:31 ais523: yes 22:33:35 the bounds expand 22:33:39 and contract 22:33:44 and neighbours take the bounds into account 22:33:44 oh, it's a torus which gets bigger 22:33:49 and smaller 22:33:50 when does it get bigger? 22:33:51 essentially 22:33:54 when things get near the edge? 22:34:01 ais523: when they hit beyond the edge 22:34:02 if so, it's likely to expand indefinitely due to gliders 22:34:04 ais523: you just store the boundaries 22:34:08 of the whole thing 22:34:12 ehird: wait... 22:34:15 how do they get beyond 22:34:17 ... 22:34:18 in a wrapping environment? 22:34:18 they move. 22:34:24 ais523: wrapping is only for neighbours 22:34:26 cells in Life don't move 22:34:30 gliders do 22:34:32 ais523: wrapping is only for neighbours 22:34:34 no, they don't 22:34:36 not movement 22:34:42 ehird: there is no movement in Life 22:34:43 night 22:34:45 gliders don't move 22:34:48 ... no shit 22:34:49 rather, nearby cells turn on 22:34:51 listen to me 22:34:52 to continue it 22:34:55 AnMaster: night 22:34:55 when a cell turns on outside the field 22:34:59 the field expands 22:35:06 but for neighbour calculation, it wraps at the edges 22:35:12 ehird: but the cell at the opposite side of the field would also turn on? 22:35:15 by the same logic 22:35:18 that's getting weird and messed-up, now 22:35:21 there's no movement in the real world 22:35:23 um, no, ais523 22:35:31 ehird: imagine a glider hitting the edge of the map 22:35:34 what part of "WRAPPING ONLY APPLIES TO NEIGHBOURS" don't you get 22:35:34 the cells beyond it turn on 22:35:41 the cells at the other end of the map also turn on 22:35:42 all of it, apparently. 22:35:48 by only applying to neighbours 22:35:55 ehird: what are the neighbors of a cell far outside the field? 22:36:05 There is nothing outside of the field... 22:36:06 oerjan: they wrap, obviously, wrapping only applies to neighbours 22:36:16 ais523: what I mean is 22:36:19 ehird: suppose a cell isn't on 22:36:19 ehird: so where do new cells come from? 22:36:23 when you run the "flipState" function 22:36:27 you pass neighbours that wrap 22:36:28 and at the other end of the field, there are three consecutive on cells 22:36:29 but NOTHING ELSE wraps 22:36:30 AT ALL 22:36:41 ehird: then how do the cells outside the boundary ever turn on 22:36:42 ais523: the GoL calculations only deal with the middle cell 22:36:43 to flip 22:37:09 ehird: anyway you _are_ going to get strange edge effects this way 22:37:11 ehird: then how do the cells outside the boundary ever turn on 22:37:29 ais523: you're not making any sense to me 22:37:41 ehird: neither are you to anyone else 22:37:53 calculating neighbours seems easy to calculate for cells inside the grid 22:37:58 given your current clear definitions 22:38:01 but expanding the grid doesn't 22:38:10 as cells outside the grid don't seem to have defined neighbours to know when to turn on 22:38:22 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:38:39 meh, I'll just make it unbounded. 22:38:43 even though this will cause me hell. 22:39:07 (in that you have to store the boundaries) 22:39:20 * ais523 vaguely wonders what C## would be like, if it existed 22:39:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:39:37 #csharp exists 22:39:40 #c# redirecst there 22:39:45 yes, but that's only one sharp 22:39:55 arguably, C## would be D, based on enharmonics 22:39:58 but that's stretching it a bit 22:39:58 heh 22:41:14 neighbours :: Grid -> Point -> Neighbours 22:41:19 wonder if that should be Point -> Grid 22:43:22 Hrm. 22:43:27 Do most Life implementations store bounds? 22:43:30 I'm sure there's a trick 22:43:38 they vary 22:44:12 Well, how do you transform an infinite grid apart from storing bounds? 22:44:37 Also, isn't a wrapping Life easier to look at? :P 22:45:03 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 22:45:46 it wreaks some havoc with simulations if you wrap though, even if the live field is not that large - gliders tend to come back and ruin things 22:46:23 Coooooooooooooooool, my random pattern spawned a glider 22:46:23 oerjan: all life patterns tend to mess up after a while :P 22:46:26 * Max_D bleh 22:46:35 i mean mess up compared to the ideal 22:53:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:10 * Max_D killed the convo with his bleh! 22:56:30 it happens 22:56:39 also, ais523 left 23:03:46 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 23:07:21 Night 23:07:45 -!- FireyFly has quit ("Brb IRL"). 23:08:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit ("hejdÃ¥!"). 23:09:16 whee, maze generating cellular automata! 23:09:17 bleh, half the languages in this wiki are the exact same language just with different ways of doing the same thing... no originality =/ 23:09:26 they are all brainfuck basically xP 23:09:27 Max_D: we agree :-) 23:09:34 everyone's first langi s a brainfuck clone... 23:10:03 instead of > you do poop, and < is doodoo, and + is crap 23:10:08 it's feces++ 23:10:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:10:39 amazing 23:12:19 it's gonna be HUGE 23:26:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:36:37 Life in matlab: nlfilter(A,[3 3],@(N)sum(sum(N))==3||N(5)&&sum(sum(N))==4) 23:37:04 (can't figure out how to only evaluate sum(sum(N)) once...) 23:39:19 nice 23:39:29 ... or just type 'life' 23:39:31 MizardX: nlfilter sounds ... specialized 23:39:40 non-linear filter 23:39:55 image filtering 23:40:24 [3 3] is the size of the sub-image you want passed to the function 23:41:08 * Max_D wonders what you are talking about :P 23:44:11 conways game of life, and image processing, in matlab 23:46:24 better implementation in the built-in version: 23:46:24 n = [m 1:m-1]; e = [2:m 1]; s = [2:m 1]; w = [m 1:m-1]; 23:46:26 while 1, 23:46:28 N = X(n,:) + X(s,:) + X(:,e) + X(:,w) + X(n,e) + X(n,w) + X(s,e) + X(s,w); 23:46:30 X = (X & (N == 2)) | (N == 3); 23:46:32 end