< 1231459329 0 :grndlvlbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1231459462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say that there should be an ordered directory structure in filesystems. < 1231459605 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1231460140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordered directory structure? < 1231460153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how did you generate it? < 1231460154 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1231460161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt generate it < 1231460163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stole it < 1231460163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1231460196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right, would've been quite fast < 1231460330 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1231460399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah seems not to converge < 1231460609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens? < 1231460634 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This pangram contains zero a's, zero b's, zero c's, zero d's, zero e's, zero f's, zero g's, zero h's, zero i's, zero k's, zero l's, zero m's, zero n's, zero o's, zero p's, zero q's, zero s's, zero t's, zero u's, zero v's, zero w's, zero x's, zero y's, zero z's, zero apostrophes, zero commas, zero spaces, and one period. < 1231460732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very accurate. < 1231460776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *same question* < 1231461653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i didn't check for longer cycles, let me see < 1231461682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw i started with the string "abc...z") < 1231461710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i used "no" rather than "zero", not that it was ever used of course < 1231461759 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1231461990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1231462802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1231462835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This Pangram contains four a's, one b, two c's, one d, thirty-one e's, five f's, seven g's, nine h's, thirteen i's, one j, one k, one l, two m's, nineteen n's, fourteen o's, two p's, one q, six r's, twenty-seven s's, twenty t's, three u's, five v's, seven w's, three x's, three y's, & one z." repeats after 126 steps < 1231463069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does not appear until about 1008 steps after a..z < 1231463108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just did not wait long enought the first times i tried < 1231465336 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1231465531 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-43-169.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1231466260 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1231472944 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This pangram contains your mom. < 1231473111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a pangram. < 1231474257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM SPAM WONDERFUL SPAM < 1231474330 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an algo for pangrams. what is it? < 1231474385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1231474444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean self-describing pangrams? pangram alone just means something containing every letter < 1231474468 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, self describing pangrams :P < 1231474554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be constraint solving i think. or maybe something evolutionary... < 1231474558 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect its solvable with a linear equation < 1231474581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i strongly doubt that < 1231474632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number -> vector of letters in numeral mapping is complicated < 1231474721 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man < 1231474737 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be a way! < 1231474737 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1231474747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by evolutionary i mean, you could use an iteration like i did, but then do a random change when you got stuck < 1231474844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 16 letters actually appear in the numbers 1-99, that reduces search space < 1231475149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangram < 1231475166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the example posted above was pasted from there < 1231475197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, it was computed with dedicated hardware < 1231475221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you that was in 1984 so obviously an ordinary computer should be able to do it now < 1231475247 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1231475247 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an autogram is what it is < 1231475250 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the real term < 1231475266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks identical on a glance < 1231475276 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autograms are self describing < 1231475279 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pangrams contain all the letters < 1231475291 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its merely coincidental that some autograms can also be pangrams < 1231475304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i guess making them also pangrams probably is not that much worse < 1231475324 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely. < 1231475443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page speaks of Binary Decision Diagrams < 1231475453 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1231475460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if wikipedia wasn't constantly locking up... < 1231475798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably means that they are essentially solving it by reducing to a case of an NP-complete problem... < 1231475824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very promising :D < 1231475833 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1231475854 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoy understanding what P and NP mean < 1231475877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not so much hitting into them, eh? < 1231475885 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1231475931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't enjoy quite as much having to solve NP-complete problems... < 1231475977 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never had to try :P < 1231476078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually most interesting puzzles are probably human-sized (small!) versions of NP-complete problems < 1231476206 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1231476373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudoku for example, becomes NP-complete if you have arbitrary board size and non-unique solutions < 1231476412 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1231476454 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lol" < 1231478875 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231480306 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-29-20.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231481046 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-56.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231482840 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-21.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1231483109 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1231484889 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1231485173 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1231486290 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1231486324 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1231487903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm. looking at that mess... i'm really proud of it :) <-- optimizing? < 1231487999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1231488000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1231488434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1231488845 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1231488845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1231488851 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1231488851 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1231489194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1231489592 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1231489600 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-29-20.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231490006 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Dewi < 1231490573 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1231490574 0 :metazilla!n=moozilla@207-118-29-20.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231491381 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"e disasterous." < 1231498475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pangram problem would be quite hard to show np-complete given english numbers aren't exactly that simple < 1231498509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course it would trivially be in p if you just had the english numbers and the english alphabet, because a solution is known < 1231498520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a problem instance can't really be np-complete < 1231498609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could probably include subset sum somehow given the ability to specify the alphabet and the way to represent numerals < 1231498631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i can think very coherently this early < 1231498634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shuppe -> < 1231499782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it becomes meaningful to talk about its algoritmic complexity if alphabet and numerics used are variable. < 1231499832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1231499847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't find a simple way to encode anything in it < 1231499881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm close to getting it, but i don't really have the time atm < 1231499932 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is that problem even in NP (i.e. it does not blow up superpolynomially)? < 1231499949 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In solution size that is... < 1231499954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivially in np, you can just count characters and their amounts. < 1231499965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*character amounts < 1231500004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given numerics, an alphabet and a solution, just check the solution contains only pieces of the alphabet, and for all characters, their amount is represented with the correct numeric < 1231500031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1231500035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you mean < 1231500072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we need to be polynomial on the size of the set of numerics < 1231500087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see a way to get a superpolynomial solution < 1231500117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could happen is similar to what happens in Sokoban: The solution chains can blow up exponetially -> PSPACE. < 1231500126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is essentially an n-tuple of numerics, one representing each character's count in the whole tuple's numerics + 1 < 1231500138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1231500141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a solution chain < 1231500150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about the same thing? < 1231500151 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the problem is not well-defined. How you encode numerics used? < 1231500170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about generalizing "this pangram contains x1 a's, x2 b's..." < 1231500208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just give a list of all the numerics you're allowed to use < 1231500219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need a bigger number, there's no solution < 1231500222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't lose generality < 1231500242 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 'solution chain' referred to Sokoban. You can encode explicit solution, but it can be exponential in lenght, so Sokoban is not in NP (its in PSPACE). < 1231500276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know sokoban, i can look it up < 1231500286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what does that have to do with this? < 1231500302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no chain here, you just calculate amounts, and see if the right numeric is in place < 1231500325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any solution will just be an n-tuple from the given set of numerics, where n is the size of the alphabet < 1231500349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there cannot be anything superpolynomial about that, because you have a polynomial-size tuple of polynomial-size objects < 1231500383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i did understand what you meant by the solution chain thing < 1231500430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bound for certificate space required is n*ceil(log2(k)), where n is number of alphabet and k is number of numerics. < 1231500432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here we're just checking a solution, there's no computation involved in the solution checking, as is usual for np-completeness < 1231500460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actually k should be the size of the largest numeric < 1231500480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1231500484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, yeah, that's okay too < 1231500514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just exploiting the fact the list is in the problem descriptino < 1231500517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*description < 1231500598 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if numeric description size is logaritmic in numbers representable, then its still O(n*k)... < 1231500667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1231500706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's the same as sokoban, counting the characters is the computation that can last an exponential amount < 1231500754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking there would be only a polynomial amount of polynomial numerics < 1231500775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. then again, if you want the *number* of numerics to be polynomial < 1231500782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the actual list of numerics is exponential < 1231500809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. i guess it doesn't have to be < 1231500817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it, just could < 1231500854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh, if you keep talking to me, i'm going to have to start thinking at some poitn < 1231500856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point < 1231500913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, yes you're right, might be pspace, should probably define it better < 1231500928 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is some upper limit to numerics used, and representation of numerics in problem is at least logaritmic, then its in NP. < 1231500967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i assumed a polynomial amount of numerics initially < 1231501038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you need the counting of characters to be in np, which that should guarantee, yes < 1231501111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i never really even considered that, i assumed if there was a beautiful solution to encode something in it, you'd easily see if the result was checkable in polynomial time, and that i could define the problem after that < 1231501118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1231501161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah representation at least logarithmic so the character amounts can't get infinite, yes, good point < 1231501207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: approximately, where do you live? i'm such a patriot that i like to know that about finns < 1231501304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think with logspace numerics, its not in NP. < 1231501308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Helsinki. < 1231501351 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason for that is that by increasing the alphabet size, you can make solution size blow up superpolynomially. < 1231501410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the size of problem encoding is only logaritmic in alphabet size... < 1231501436 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the size of solution is linear in alphabet size -> exponential blowup. < 1231501470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well err, if the number of numerics is polynomial, and all their sizes are polynomial, i don't see what could go wrong. i mean there couldn't, then, be an exponential size solution because that would require an exponential input, right? < 1231501540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the problem encoding also contains the numerics, so even if the solution is linear in alphabet size, it will only contain a small subset of the given set of numerics < 1231501553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1231501580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is, you can't need an exponential amount of time to count the characters, because then you'd have an exponential amount of numerics in the input as well < 1231501702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the crucial problem with getting an exponential blowup is we want the set of numerics as an explicit list < 1231501729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we just encoded it like, say, english does, in a logarithmic amount of rules, then we'd hit the linear in alphabet size problem < 1231501764 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem comes from the fact that solution size is necressarily linear in number of alphabet, but the problem description size is linear in number of bits in alphabet size. < 1231501962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so, if we need the numerics to be given explicitly. we can only use time O(|set of numerics|) to count characters < 1231501972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that needs to be polynomial, i don't see a problem < 1231502077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like, if you're given a graph with n connected components, and you need to find the biggest subset of those components whose union size is smaller than a given number < 1231502122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use dynamic programming, because the input size contains the numbers in "unary", just like in here < 1231502133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/input size/input < 1231502177 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes exponential time just to iterate through the alphabet... < 1231502210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alphabet size is polynomial, so what do you mean? < 1231502257 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What in problem input is linear in size of alphabet? < 1231502316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tuple that is the solution is linear in the size of the alphabet, it has an element for each character < 1231502360 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. But I don't see that the input has to be linear in size of alphabet... < 1231502390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the checking problem requires you to, for each character (linear in size of alphabet), count the number of those characters in the numbers (linear in size of set of numberics and their representation) < 1231502404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: umm, so you can have an exponential input? < 1231502417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, it takes exponential time to check the numbers are even in the set of numerics. < 1231502424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus clearly it isn't in np. < 1231502445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crucial point is how we encode the numerics, i assumed they were given explicitly, in a list. < 1231502580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you perhaps implicitly assuming the set of numerics can be represented in logarithmic space? < 1231502613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if it could, you would be correct, it would not be in np < 1231502666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i need to go read my book, we're not really getting anywhere arguing about... well not sure what :P < 1231502669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes ->
< 1231506286 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-252-1-92-158.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1231506827 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1231508325 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1231508715 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-103-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1231509664 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1231510042 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-103-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1231510687 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1231510708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1230134229081.jpg < 1231510709 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1231510779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1231510816 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP < 1231510821 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either. < 1231510838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('A')? < 1231510906 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nop < 1231510913 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's universal quantifier < 1231510950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's upside down why? < 1231510969 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1231510977 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owait < 1231510979 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right. < 1231510990 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually an universal quantifier. < 1231510998 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It are supposed to be a mona kittun < 1231511074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1231511091 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII art stuff on the chans. < 1231511527 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1231513756 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1231517055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :i don't eat your face | man | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1231517277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:18:28 http://img.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1230134229081.jpg <-- lol < 1231520159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks around
< 1231520186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird my friend! < 1231520198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't eat your face. Man. < 1231520202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is possibly tired.
< 1231520211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1231520242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do you think about irregular webcomic today? < 1231520252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the annotation rocked < 1231520261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1231520298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1231520308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits while ehird reads it
< 1231520316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skimmed the annotation, mostly. < 1231520320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I got the gist :P < 1231520330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is? < 1231520342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are my reader. I hate you." < 1231520368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I would say: "black body radiation and how it can be used to figure out temperature or stars and distance to them" < 1231520381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intentions are what matters :-P < 1231520385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a bit about general relativity < 1231520390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I liked it! < 1231520397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he has failed :P < 1231520405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION predicts that the comic will now fade to octarine
< 1231520410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he has done such annotations a few times before < 1231520431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err that isn't inside the sRGB space is it? < 1231520441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sRGB is for squares. < 1231520471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no, triangles, though square colour spaces would be possible I think < 1231520485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1231520512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what colour space are apple monitors? < 1231520521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sRGB? :-P < 1231520532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1231520539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Preferences says "iMac". < 1231520547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has "sRGB Profile" as an alternative. < 1231520550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have assumed some wider one like AdobeRGB or such < 1231520556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which mainly seems to be darker. < 1231520564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes the text anti-aliasing look bad. < 1231520573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no monitor matches a colour space exactly < 1231520577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it also has adobe rgb. < 1231520581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ntsc, and PAL. < 1231520583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and god knows what. < 1231520590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but what can the monitor actually show? < 1231520595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, someone at the door < 1231520602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure. < 1231520645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- Jehovas witness... < 1231520704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they exist over in UK too? < 1231520707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1231520727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've only ever got one her. I want more so I can waste their time :( < 1231520794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I wonder why they keep bothering with our house after my father once (3rd time same year or so) decided to start to try to convert them about Buddhism. No visits for a few years after that, but seems they started again last year or so < 1231520806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/about/to/ < 1231520847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it happen btw, was quite funny < 1231520867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1231520886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a way to get them stop coming < 1231520890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what the term is < 1231520890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1231520892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1231520899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you tell them you used to be one, but got excommunicated(?I think?) < 1231520900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, _expected_ guest here < 1231520910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their strict rules are that they CANNOT come there ever again < 1231520914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because you're a devil or something) < 1231521237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Disfellowshipping" it seems < 1231521238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is no fun < 1231521249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are over 30 violations for which a member can be disfellowshipped [21], including: Abortion, adultery, apostasy, bestiality, voluntary blood transfusions, drug abuse, drunkenness, extortion, fornication, fraud, gambling, heresy, homosexual activity, idolatry, incest, interfaith activity, loose conduct[22], manslaughter, murder, perverted sex relations[23], polygamy, pornography[24], sexual abuse, spiritism, theft, and use of tobacco. < 1231521254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO, PORNOGRAPHY < 1231521259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to try to convert them to Buddhism or such < 1231521275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voluntary blood transfusions? < 1231521281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth < 1231521289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently blood is sacred. < 1231521299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blood transfusions are strictly forbidden for jehova's witnesses < 1231521302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in case of emergency < 1231521358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love cults < 1231521359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gambling huh..., so they can't play chess or anything? < 1231521390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably that's not gambling. < 1231521391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1231521404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so gambling is just when it is about money or? < 1231521434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period. < 1231521438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling < 1231521439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway trying to convert them to Buddhism really get them confused, which is great fun. < 1231521460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so they don't like stock markets? < 1231521484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could describe that as close to that < 1231521485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stock markets aren't gambling in public opinion, for some unfathomable reason. < 1231521502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed you would need to bend the definition of "wager", but not much < 1231521530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, imaginary colors rock < 1231521560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1231521565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a new colour. :-P < 1231521614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a saturated green is viewed until the green receptors are fatigued and then a saturated red is viewed, a perception of red more intense than pure spectral red can be experienced. This is due to the fatigue of the green receptors and the resulting lack of their ability to desaturate the perceptual response to the output of the red receptors.[2] Kodak engineered Epcot's pavement to be a certain hue of pink so that the grass would look greener through th < 1231521617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e reverse of this effect.[citation needed] < 1231521619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooooooo < 1231521727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1231521732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should compile something to llvm. < 1231521743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a nice lil' OOP language or something. < 1231521749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why not just use the Lab colour space < 1231521761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to write an LLVM thing in non-C++? < 1231521770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes iirc, they have a C interface < 1231521777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from C? :P < 1231521794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well ocaml, since someone used the C interface to make an ocaml interface iirc < 1231521802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it making ocaml compile using llvm? < 1231521805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those < 1231521811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why isn't it language agnostic? < 1231521824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it could be, but you need to make an interface < 1231521836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not language agnostic. < 1231521839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc both python and perl can interface C libraries < 1231521847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the bytecode spec format is open < 1231521852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write your own generator < 1231521858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1231521874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but what do you suggest instead of a library with a standard interface? < 1231521918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A simple plaintext format that you can just pipe to llvm? < 1231521923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know. UNIX. < 1231521924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1231521927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists < 1231521930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm byte code asm < 1231521931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1231521957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not use that? < 1231521965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, why not? < 1231521977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is it more complex than the API? < 1231521996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc the llvm website have info somewhere on it comparing pros and cons of those different ways < 1231522004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1231522073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/docs/FAQ.html#langirgen < 1231522078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against: the .ll parser is slower than the bitcode reader when interfacing to the middle end < 1231522081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be especially bad < 1231522088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i'd like it to be fast enough for e.g. using it for a REPL < 1231522094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval() and suchlike. < 1231522103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes could be a problem then < 1231522114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to JIT stuff you probably need to use the API < 1231522130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I might have to bite the bullet and use C. < 1231522135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I'll have to use effing flex and yacc. < 1231522155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could use lemon instead of yacc. < 1231522156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, ugh < 1231522173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm can't languages like python, ruby and perl interface C libraries? < 1231522181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure at least python and perl can < 1231522194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I guess. < 1231522198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it < 1231522210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe someone already wrote a wrapper? Might be worth checking < 1231522210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it won't fit in with the rest of the code, oh well. < 1231522215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, good point. < 1231522259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course, it won't fit in with the rest of the code, oh well. <--? < 1231522272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll take structs, etc < 1231522282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'll have to construct manually from the objects < 1231522289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, I guess it will be easier to wrap the C API rather than the C++ one < 1231522299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you'll only have to deal with POD then < 1231522326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, writing this in a HLL might be a bit stupid. < 1231522328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go for C. < 1231522337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, s-expressions so I don't have to use flex/lemon. < 1231522348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... even though I don't really want to use s-exprs, but oh well < 1231522364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, HLL? < 1231522377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High level language. < 1231522382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1231522389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language did you plan to use to begin with? < 1231522405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, just one of the typical scripting languages. But tying a HLL to another HLL would be silly. < 1231522405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there is some llvm thing for haskell for example, but I may remember wrong < 1231522452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. That could be very nice. < 1231522458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I believe there is such a thing < 1231522470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so, so tempting. < 1231522489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know details, I think I was randomly browsing on ohloh or such < 1231522495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or viewing suggestions for the stack there < 1231522503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it a few days ago on reddit, I think, actually! < 1231522518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUR (en) - haskell-llvm < 1231522518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 Dec 2008 ... http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/llvm ... http:// hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/llvm/0.4.1.0/llvm-0.4.1.0. ... < 1231522518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=18018 - 7k - Cached - Similar pages - < 1231522518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1231522520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://augustss.blogspot.com/2009/01/llvm-llvm-low-level-virtual-machine-is.html < 1231522529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, it's on hackage: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/llvm < 1231522570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing about compiling to llvm is that I have to learn someone _else's_ arcane assembly, instead of inventing my own ;-) < 1231522576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh also if you plan to mess with x86_64 and llvm use svn version < 1231522582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hit some bugs in last release < 1231522589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I need 64-bit for this. < 1231522591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you used -march and -O < 1231522596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86_64 < 1231522601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically inspired by this: http://github.com/why/potion/tree/master < 1231522631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on last release you can get llvm-gcc to ICE in stage2 of bootstrapping itself < 1231522640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/why/potion/commits/master <- Wow, that's some activity < 1231522688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting, and that uses llvm? < 1231522691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1231522695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom VM < 1231522701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also has a JIT < 1231522702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x86 < 1231522708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but works on non-x86, just slower < 1231522720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it uses a custom written JIT for x86 and x86_64 (it says so in README) < 1231522723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1231522735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is the project? < 1231522742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, um, a few weeks. < 1231522747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the activity level I would assume fairly new < 1231522747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a month or two. < 1231522755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1231522756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why created repository potion 1 day ago < 1231522756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the JIT actually works? < 1231522761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's worked on it for longer, presumably < 1231522768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1231522780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a good JIT takes time, lots of time < 1231522857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * No error handling. I'm wary of just tossing < 1231522857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in exceptions and feeling rather uninspired < 1231522857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : on the matter. Let's hear from you." < 1231522859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah easy < 1231522862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflection :P < 1231522863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * core: okay, first checkin. the parser is coming together. started this < 1231522863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : on the 15th. < 1231522865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- december < 1231522886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's developed a prototype with a working jit in less than a month. < 1231522898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of an object-oriented language with also a VM and interesting object model. < 1231522904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear that guy is paid to sit around all day and be awesome < 1231522925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can believe someone managed to write a well working JIT in less than a month if he was dedicated, and a OO lang... But both? No way < 1231522940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's your evidence. < 1231522943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browse through the commits if you want. < 1231522980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what about work? Either rich enough to not need it or the company sponsors this, or something else < 1231522992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: "i swear that guy is paid to sit around all day and be awesome" < 1231522999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I agreed with you < 1231523010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think what you have to realise is that he's crazy as all hell. < 1231523028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence: http://poignantguide.net/ruby/chapter-4.html (<-- this is from a _programming_ tutorial. Needs images.) < 1231523034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or he is a student, one of those who back in the 1970s would have rewritten unix over the weekend < 1231523060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More evidence: handwritten code, with coloured pencils. http://redhanded.hobix.com/cult/ahaNoticeTheExpandoWhichPrecludes.html < 1231523068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well he isn't too bad at drawing < 1231523073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly draws better than me < 1231523091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WHY ARE THERE NO PUNCH CARDS!? < 1231523100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't give him ideas, man < 1231523111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting nick btw, "why" < 1231523134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his full name is actually why the lucky stiff. < 1231523138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also he has a GUI toolkit called Shoes, singular. < 1231523140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine: < 1231523142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles that
< 1231523151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's new toolkit, Shoes, is great. why the lucky stiff is so awesome. < 1231523175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia... "why the lucky stiff (often known simply as why or _why) is the persona of a prolific writer, cartoonist, musician, artist, and computer programmer notable for his work with the Ruby programming language." < 1231523178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1231523198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is a photo too < 1231523237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the wp article seems like a link dump < 1231523317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm are you sure this is one person? < 1231523331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not several performing a practical joke of some weird sort < 1231523337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the theory that he is a collective has been put forward. The personality is a bit too consistent for that, though :P < 1231523388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to write language as custom vm language in Haskell. Maybe.
< 1231523411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I'd assume only one would do the drawing bit, to make it consistent, and so on. If not he is some sort of super-productive multi-skilled genius... < 1231523443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative theory: He is a regular person who codes Java by day in a regular, messed-up javacorp. Wears a tie. < 1231523444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1231523449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a huge stash of LSD at home. < 1231523452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an internet connection. < 1231523460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And coloured crayons. < 1231523487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would LSD do that? I don't know any details of the effects caused by that drug < 1231523504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to fit :-P < 1231523518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1231523524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1231523554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2009/01/genetic-mona-lisa.html <- the javascript demoscener takes up the genetic algorithms meme < 1231523600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetic algorithms meme? When did genetic algorithms become a meme? < 1231523614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone and his dog generated the mona lisa from polygons with it :P < 1231523643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't that one miss recombinating and so on? < 1231523650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1231523746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I read about the original and it seemed to do a, .... forgot the word < 1231523762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stochastic hill climb < 1231523763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed search or something < 1231523765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1231523768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds right < 1231523815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION names language poke
< 1231523825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I seen that used already < 1231523829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure though < 1231523831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1231523840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides between C and Haskell while wondering why that's even a choice
< 1231523870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I never tried the haskell interface for llvm, #llvm can be found on OFTC (not freenode) < 1231523885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the official #llvm < 1231523890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided against llvm :P < 1231523898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, writing your own JIT? < 1231523907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just a regular VM to start with. < 1231523911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, sanity and all that. < 1231523927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess _why doesn't have any of that < 1231523942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nor do I. < 1231523973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and/or he could be somewhat like those famous composers, Mozart and such, brainchilds < 1231524004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, LSD < 1231524070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in 200 years people will talk about famous programmers from the twenty-first century(sp?), like we today talk about famous composers, writes and painters of previous centuries < 1231524072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1231524094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming spelling is correct for the last word < 1231524190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Phamus pr0gramrz aften used ''fakneames'' to hyd3 deir tru identiti. Forexam, ``why the lucky stiff`` (inth oldspeak, "wot a lucki blighter")" < 1231524204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disclaim all liability if English ends up like that in the future. < 1231524223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I certainly hope AOL speak doesn't take over the world < 1231524451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm is there a linux C version of this genetic meme? < 1231524458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I believe so < 1231524459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :se < 1231524460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1231524483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://github.com/mackstann/mona/tree < 1231524489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know his way around this strange blogosphere thing
< 1231524489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written by the kind of person who writes everything in C :-P < 1231524524 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, C < 1231524530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"velociraptor.png"? Is this the xkcd author? < 1231524538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop < 1231524553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope* < 1231524603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badger: but but you come from #haskell < 1231524738 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1231524750 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't use the language though < 1231524752 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one bit < 1231524769 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my puny attempts failed, whereas C is more comprehendable < 1231524788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because you're used to it < 1231524794 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly < 1231524844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plots to have a component called mon in this language, so he can make horrible puns about pokemon
< 1231524904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badger, what other functional languages do you know? < 1231524914 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1231524927 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I choose you! < 1231524946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOTTA INTERPRET THEM ALL! umm, no. < 1231524979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about that "http://redhanded.hobix.com/cult/ahaNoticeTheExpandoWhichPrecludes.html" you linked, wtf is "expando"? < 1231524997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about reading < 1231524998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text < 1231525004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the linked article < 1231525004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diveintomark.org/archives/2007/04/01/document-dot-wacko < 1231525011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for the link
< 1231525013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1231525016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I read the text < 1231525172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i promise that poke will have an expando method on all objects. < 1231525174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"“Precludes the functionality.” Awesome." <-- eh? what is odd with that? Sure, it isn't informal everyday language. So what? Yes I read the whole post, and I agree with the poster that the thing is very wtf. < 1231525185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not that language remark < 1231525223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is wtfy because it's worded ridiculously and sounds funny. < 1231525249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously? You mean bureaucratically? < 1231525252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1231525254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously < 1231525260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1231525261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'd have to be a native speaker :P < 1231525266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1231525303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I translate it mentally it ends up as highly bureaucratic, but not ridiculous < 1231525314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure sometimes bureaucratic == ridiculous < 1231525470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like (real world example, not urban myth, I know the person first hand who read this in a report from someone on the local city council, a journalist btw), translated from Swedish: "green fodder converting milk production unit" < 1231525474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what that meant < 1231525486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared to < 1231525497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? milk cow < 1231525505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guessed that :D < 1231525581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and I have heard (from another journalist, my mother in fact, and no jokes about that) another person at the same city council call "windows" "light inlets" < 1231525587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1231525606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at a press conference < 1231525608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks about writing a program that takes text and pounds it through a thesaurus to make it more beaurocratic
< 1231525691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about building some new building, library or museum or something, and that there should be many "light inlets" to create a nice environment and such, and when the journalists asked what he meant with "light inlets" he said something like "oh, um... you know, light inlets, um.... um... windows!" < 1231525698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1231525702 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1231525718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess it is the same in UK? < 1231525723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much. < 1231525799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and this was back in the 1980s, I wonder what they sound like now (said person no longer works as a journalist, she is teaching journalism instead) < 1231525896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to hack up object.h into something that looks right
< 1231525904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from the null string) < 1231526054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh about the "green fodder converting..." thing, the journalist in question called the person who had written it and asked, why he didn't use a normal word. And the person said that if you used "cow" it could mean either "milk cow" or "meat cow".... Yes both of those exists as direct translations to Swedish and yes he used them, no I don't think he was ever able to explain why he didn't just us < 1231526054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e "milk cow" < 1231526066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1231526117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if state is actuallyneeded in objects, with sufficient magic
< 1231526186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1231526198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1231526217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1231526226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it as a method definiton like < 1231526244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello <- newSlot < 1231526245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becomes < 1231526259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello <- { Slots at(5461651) } < 1231526264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where { ... } is a function < 1231526269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number is generated on newSlot < 1231526277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hello actually returns a value < 1231526279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and something I saw myself... "park bench" as "sitting function". Sadly the translation in this case makes it even more messed up, because "function" in this case have more than one meaning < 1231526279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is assigning it < 1231526280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmhrm < 1231526664 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1231526682 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-26-251.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1231526928 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, let me ask a seemingly worthless question: Which distro: GoboLinux, Zenwalk, Lunar, SliTaz or Puppy (or something light/small too)? < 1231526961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato, Arch Linux? < 1231526966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all depends on what you want < 1231526981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Arch Linux and Gentoo Linux. ehird here said GoboLinux was good iirc < 1231526988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I like both Gentoo and Arch < 1231526989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1231527005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: slackware? i dunno. < 1231527007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gobolinux is nice. < 1231527016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not that lightweight < 1231527022 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, a stable learning/messing platform that is extensible, but doesn't go bandwidth crazy like Ubuntu. This has to fit in <700mb's < 1231527050 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it has to be something different, from the usuals, FC, RHL, SuSE, Deb etc < 1231527061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch fits in 300MB IIRC < 1231527068 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll take a look at Arch < 1231527082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If installing the core system from the internet instead of the CD, half of that < 1231527106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: ew < 1231527111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't look at arch :-P < 1231527122 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds awesome. Thing is, I'm not really even sure what I use an OS for anyway. I have a Windoze partition, mainly for Fallout 3, and then that's it. I do python and ruby, etc, so nothing constricting there < 1231527132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: if you want to learn how linux works < 1231527133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go with slackware < 1231527136 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, well, I meant *look* at, as in read :P < 1231527153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: i mean, slackware is like one level up from Linux From Scratch < 1231527170 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague idea, but I just wanna be able to mess around. Yeah, so I've heard, hence I included zenwalk in the list < 1231527176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installer is basically an interface over a program that copies over a kernel and runs the (barely-extant) package manager < 1231527183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that can be a good thing < 1231527184 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :P < 1231527188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to get proficient with linux, that's great < 1231527194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you learn it without a glossing over < 1231527203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also very small and fast sort of feeling, in general < 1231527220 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmm, so, BlueWhit64? I have an AMD < 1231527245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't go for a really obscure distro, it'd just be painful < 1231527259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: what do you want to do with this? < 1231527283 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not sure, and that's 90% of the problem. I would say use it, but I'm not even sure what that means. < 1231527292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what primary uses? :-) < 1231527314 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On windoze, gaming, on linux/misc: surfing, programming and stuffing about < 1231527338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: is learning linux to a deeper extent one of your goals? < 1231527378 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most certainly, but, not necessarily a priority. (PS: You should make a web-wizard distro selector, you have all the right questions) < 1231527410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: lol, there are plenty of distro selectors to go around... But, if you have a lot of spare time and don't mind messing about a lot to get things going, Slackware could be a good learning experience. < 1231527422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might also want to check out one of the *BSDs. < 1231527446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For something more "everyday" but still not a mainstream distro, not sure. Damn Small Linux? < 1231527484 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Arch is fine as an easier Slackware < 1231527504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: except that's a misguided goal < 1231527521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you want to get familiar with linux, i.e. slackware < 1231527523 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'm skeptical about BSD, as I am about solaris/derivatives and other funny kernerls/os's. I tried DSL, and although it was Debian, it failed. Not my kind of thing.. leaves you way in the cold - I felt. I mean, I've never really felt comfortable in Linux, ever, so Arch is looking good and so is slackware. GoboLinux is out because it's too non-standard < 1231527527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you want something for every-day usage, i.e. something else entirely < 1231527547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't one become familiar with linux with an every-day distro < 1231527549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: BSD actually predates linux, by a long shot < 1231527557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could. But if it's one of your specific goals... < 1231527572 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the familiarity comes naturally with use < 1231527591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slackware can still be valuable, it really depends on what you want < 1231527592 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Could, but where's the fun? ehird: Yep :P Read up a bit (a lot) in the past < 1231527594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I think I get /too/ familiar just trying to get rid of warnings and errors in dmesg and then in Xorg.0.log ;-) < 1231527627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: Slackware might "leave you out in the cold" to start with -- though its interactive installer is helpful. < 1231527636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: Well, there's the offset in that an everyday distro is more fun to use when you're not specifically tinkering and messing about in order to learn linux ;-) < 1231527640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, interactive is a stretch: Basically, you run it and it tells you what to do next and you have to figure out how ;-) < 1231527646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Treasurehunt installation! < 1231527654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does give you pointers. < 1231527679 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :P Deewiant: yeah, I realise, which is why I'm leaning towards Arch now... no offense ehird < 1231527696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think arch is misguided < 1231527718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's two poles, down-dirty and high-level... arch tries to be the latter by starting from the former < 1231527723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of silly < 1231527781 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmm... ok, so fundamentally, technically, it's not cool. Deewiant, do you use it? PS: it does have a much catchier description: a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple. < 1231527793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm on Arch64 right now < 1231527799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop runs Gentoo < 1231527804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo? < 1231527809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard all of Deewiant's opinions, plz < 1231527830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less effort to keep running Gentoo than to reinstall :-P < 1231527833 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, well, I'm not in the mood for massive source compiling/downloading, so no gentoo/bintoo/saboyan etc < 1231527856 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lol :P < 1231527896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like its USE flags idea, being able to set features on a per-package basis, leaving out what you don't need... but being able to install stuff in seconds instead of minutes or hours does outweigh that benefit :-P < 1231527942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: macports has variants, essentially use flags < 1231527946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less fine-grained, which is fine by me < 1231527963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that's uncool, i mean. < 1231527967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did flip between Arch and Gentoo on the laptop, though... something didn't work in Arch (I think it was the frame buffer settings) but did in Gentoo for some reason so I went with Gentoo < 1231527975 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't in the mood for figuring stuff out < 1231528013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How does that work? Basically multiple different packages which provide the same virtual package or something like that? < 1231528027 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not that it really makes a difference, but according to DW: Slackware:14 Arch:16 < 1231528044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want popularity, why are you looking for something obscure :P < 1231528052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slackware is one of the oldest distros fwiw < 1231528066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's the second-oldest still active one, after Debian < 1231528068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :few months older than debian < 1231528070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1231528072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaat < 1231528079 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :P I know, just wanted to see what was on the web :P < 1231528080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slackware = 16 July 1993 < 1231528086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian = 16 August 1993 < 1231528089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia < 1231528099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly seem to remember being annoyed at the fact that slackware wasn't older than debian < 1231528105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1231528124 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was just at debian's age then < 1231528133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, slackware was just a barely-modified SLS to start with it seems < 1231528137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so arguably it originated in 1992 < 1231528157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, arguably Ubuntu originated in 1993 ;-P < 1231528161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1231528179 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what is going on here, where's the frinedly iso? ftp://ftp.is.co.za/mirror/ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/ < 1231528192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware, friendly? Surely you jest < 1231528194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't specify friendly as a requirement. < 1231528200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1231528203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe wrong directory < 1231528205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes a look
< 1231528218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isolinux? < 1231528222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; go one directory level upwards. < 1231528225 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. beats me < 1231528226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1231528228 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1231528228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong directory < 1231528229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And take slackware-12.2-iso or something. < 1231528236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"isolinux" is just the boot system thingie. < 1231528237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeppers < 1231528252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't used slackware in a long while, and never installed it myself < 1231528261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: http://www.slackware.com/install/ < 1231528270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be worth printing that out / keeping it open on a separate machine. < 1231528272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/might/will/ < 1231528298 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, ah, now that's a problem. Slackware>700mb's < 1231528320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grab an older version :-P < 1231528333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a small slackware installation, probably with the new versions too. < 1231528337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't install everything. < 1231528348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might not need all the isos < 1231528350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: why is that a problem? The actual install won't be that bg < 1231528353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*big < 1231528358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you disable most things < 1231528380 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the download that's the problem. I can only use 700mb's before the 20th or bust < 1231528393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1231528397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed slackware 3.2 back in 1997 or so when it came with a Finnish computer magazine; and their installation CD was borken. Package descriptions were missing for a couple of categories, had to choose what to install based on package names only. And it was my first Linux experience. That wasn't friendly. < 1231528398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmh, why doesn't irssi send a message when I press keypad enter < 1231528409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: want me to send you a disk in the post? XD < 1231528423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm sure you said that in 2005 or something < 1231528428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION = obsessive log reader
< 1231528432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Probably; I tend to repeat myself. < 1231528438 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I would love it, here's a mackerel in return < 1231528447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: ooh! Legal B Nomic tender! < 1231528452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal < 1231528463 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1231528567 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to my [non] life-altering decision, I can comprimise and take Zenwalk, or do as the Deewaint does and take Arch. Is it worth the compromise? < 1231528600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware, download it via carrier pigeon < 1231528616 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: we have bad reception < 1231528627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: thus carrier pigeon. Here's some documentation: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt < 1231528674 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD :D and any combination of the letters "l", "o", "r" and "f" < 1231528693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: re - macports variants < 1231528693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim @7.2.065 (editors) < 1231528694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variants: athena, big, cscope, gtk1, gtk2, huge, motif, nls, perl, < 1231528696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : puredarwin, python, ruby, small, tcl, tiny, universal, < 1231528698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xim < 1231528703 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with each octet separated by whitestuff and blackstuff. ? < 1231528707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tcl portfile defining it just has "variant foo { ... }" blocks that override the global definition < 1231528708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: :D < 1231528848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Wait, macports installs from source? < 1231528858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, irritatingly < 1231528862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's fast, generally < 1231528877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it could be done in a binary package manager < 1231528878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why bitch at me for using Gentoo then :-P < 1231528886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of tweaking cflags, it'd just point to a different binary tarball < 1231528889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, it could, which is why I was asking for details on how it works < 1231528901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining variants would be non-trivial < 1231528917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gentoo has more of an attitude problem regarding it than macports ;-) < 1231528946 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I don't humanize distros, I don't care about their attitude :-P < 1231528965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, who wants to buy me a pc that I can write an x11 WM on for no reason>??????? < 1231528967 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, after checking forums, Zenwalk it is *conversation has taken carrier pidgen over my head* < 1231528981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What say forums < 1231528983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: a pox be upon you < 1231528999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacPorts isn't even that fast on my one-gigahurtz G4 PPC; I remember doing a "port upgrade outdated" after a year or two of inactivity and it took several hours. < 1231529027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2ghz intel core 2 duo >>> 1ghz G4 PPC, I'd assume < 1231529051 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, it's the fact that Zenwalk forums respond nicely to questions like this: < 1231529052 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, I'm COMPLETELY new to Linux. So I have a few questions about it xD < 1231529052 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I install Zenwalk, will I lose the programs I had installed on Windows? < 1231529052 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also will I lose my files? :S sorry, rather dumb questions ^_^; < 1231529052 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehird: ... :( I tried < 1231529052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, but I don't have such EVIL CAPITALIST MONEY-HUGGER hardware. < 1231529062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: yes, you will. < 1231529067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have them on a separate partition. < 1231529071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know. back them up < 1231529081 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's not my question... < 1231529092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is then < 1231529094 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o I can't believe you believed that was me < 1231529097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:24 Also will I lose my files? :S sorry, rather dumb questions ^_^; < 1231529100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1231529101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1231529102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1231529104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1231529106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally misread < 1231529106 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.zenwalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9346, somewhere there < 1231529108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1231529118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: Arch forums don't, then? < 1231529130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i just indirectly insulted Hiato's intelligence by mistake. ouch < 1231529132 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blushes
< 1231529145 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't checked them < 1231529147 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1231529149 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all is forgiven :P < 1231529161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: thanks, idiot. Wait, disregard that <_< < 1231529162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you want to associate with people who aren't all "AH HA HA YOU STUPEF STUPIDO" on the Interwebs? < 1231529191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound... abnormal. < 1231529191 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: very true, and highly valid < 1231529203 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me ask you then: Zenwalk vs Arch < 1231529210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian. :p < 1231529214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Also, spaces and symbols like '*' can confuse the Linux inner workings ('kernel'). " < 1231529220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issue with zenwalk: they're all retards. < 1231529226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1231529232 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. fizzie: I'll tryu again :P ehird: lol, heh < 1231529243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-DDDD < 1231529248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inner workings ('kernel') < 1231529253 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, Arch it is :D < 1231529257 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er :P < 1231529280 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK..AND READ BEFORE UPGRADING - amuch better topic in the Newb forums < 1231529320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know anything about either distro, so I can't really comment. (But Debian's netinst .iso is 145 megs, and contains the base system; then you can choose what other packages you want to download; so at least it fulfills that one arbitrary criterion.) < 1231529330 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1231529364 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whips out his big bag o distros
< 1231529416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: try linux from scratch < 1231529418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1231529423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you're suicidal < 1231529436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, like, want to perform one last senseless, pointless act before leaving this earth. < 1231529441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should try lfs. < 1231529467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you feel like it, you can do Slackware too; just avoid the full .isos, pick up a suitable boot disk and the network.dsk image, then install over the network. It will not be friendly at all, though. < 1231529498 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried, and not really liked: Ubuntu x.xx, DSL, Austrami, PC-Linux {Mini-me}, Mach boot, SLED 10, SliTaz, TinyMe, Mepis, FC, RHL, Mandrake, Mandirva and a bunch of others < 1231529516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your main issue with them? < 1231529585 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just felt, well, I couldn't mess around, or that I wasn't supposed to. When I broke things, they magically healed and I was left none the wiser. Everything's a wizard (not necessarily bad), but get's frustrating. < 1231529606 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizze: will keep that in mind < 1231529631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, LFS is certainly something where you're supposed to mess around. < 1231529652 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's any indicator, I liked Puppy - and still do. It's simple, stuff works, you fix what you break, the essentials are all there, but the rest can be done (with relative ease) < 1231529654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: slackware would be pretty much perfect then < 1231529665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you mess up slackware, it doesn't work until you find out what's wrong and you fix it :-P < 1231529675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: that is simultaneously very annoying < 1231529694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "mess up" here < 1231529698 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: understood, on both notes. ehird: yeah, but it's better in a snese < 1231529718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "i did something, this something was incorrect, the results are not correct" < 1231529726 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewaint: change device0 to device1 or mess with other stuff in xorg.conf, just to see what it does < 1231529727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to use a system which wasn't like that :-P < 1231529753 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example. Or change/stop start-up scipts < 1231529753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but it's usually at a higher level < 1231529766 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mess with the HAL, etc etc < 1231529813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can stuff possibly work automatically if you break a start-up script :-P < 1231529824 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I (and most of humanity) learn. Break stuff, look at the pieces, do it again and then work out what it is supposed to do and why it works < 1231529837 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technicality :P < 1231529884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: A package manager might automatically fix it when upgrading stuff. < 1231529884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: which would you prefer - everything is a wizard... or nothing is a wizard? < 1231529892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Mandrake vs Slackware :-p < 1231529910 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: can't I float in between, with a slow drift to the nothing side < 1231529924 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, that sounds like a fair comparison < 1231529929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not an answer :-P < 1231529931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer an IRC Wizard. All this free-form writing is so tiresome; with a wizard interface I'd just have to click "Next" every now and then. < 1231529932 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd go with the nothing one < 1231529968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it seems that switching to Marvell's sk98lin driver and setting Moderation=Static as an option has made my machine work even whilst downloading torrents, hoorays \o/ < 1231529970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: forming grammatical sentences is so HARD, i'd prefer to just be given options... whenever I get just one phrase wrong i get asked what i meant < 1231529972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary!! < 1231529977 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blarg, well, it looks like with my ridiculous restrictions, I'm going to have to go for Arch or bust < 1231529983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grump
< 1231529995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: bust linux < 1231530004 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good distro name there < 1231530008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds not entirely work-safe. < 1231530035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symptoms previously included: all processes using about 6000-10000% the CPU time even after the torrent client was closed < 1231530051 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'We guarantee to break something, or your sourcecode back' < 1231530236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a curious network driver thing, also: the r8169 in an older kernel used to generate a ginormous number of "dropped" packets. < 1231530243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ifconfig output: "RX packets:67776111 errors:0 dropped:423893525723034 overruns:0 frame:0" < 1231530256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, nice. < 1231530258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that number increased by something like 100 million packets every second. < 1231530267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This 2.6.28 doesn't seem to do that any more. < 1231530298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The annoying thing about this is that sk98lin is a third-party driver I have to get from marvell.com :-/ < 1231530559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well; I have to use the horrible nvidia binary blob driver too, since the second monitor I have is pivotable but the open-source 'nv' driver disables all (2D too) acceleration if I want a rotated image. < 1231530612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one's not a binary blob; it comes with an install.sh which patches the linux source tree (and unsuccessfully—had to manually correct a broken Kconfig file for 'make menuconfig' to run) < 1231530643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is in some ways even more annoying because it's a bit trickier to install than just a blob. < 1231530686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Deewiant just use a — on IRC? < 1231530689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commendable < 1231530708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the fglrx driver but now I've switched to radeonhd (no acceleration supported for my card model!) because fglrx would lock up the whole machine if I accidentally restarted X < 1231530710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the nvidia driver also has a horrible installation script which touches all kinds of places. I just use the Debian-packaged version, I'm not so interested in having the newest released ones. < 1231530750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sk98lin doesn't have an Arch PKGBUILD, I was thinking of making one but I guess that'd require me to duplicate much of the install.sh logic myself and it'd probably be too much work to keep up-to-date < 1231530761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Lexmark's Linux drivers also had a horrible installation shell script. And so did some vmware product. It seems to be a habit. I usually just read them and do the steps manually, since I don't feel comfortable running them. < 1231530821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, about 90 minutes of torrenting and 'time man man >/dev/null' still completes in less than 0.1 seconds < 1231530847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As opposed to 5-7 seconds previously.) < 1231530938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what the hell happened to google's favicon < 1231530954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's positively hideous < 1231530960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-google-favicon.html < 1231531006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fucking god < 1231531012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire whoever did this < 1231531042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fine with the previous change though the old one is the best, but this one sucks :-P < 1231531147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lexmark's linux drivers also include a full copy of Sun's Java 1.4.2 runtime. Probably some configuration dialog or something was done as a Java application. < 1231531210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engfeh, that icon. < 1231531224 0 :alex89ru!n=kw@hbrn-5f71ee53.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1231531236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engfeh? < 1231531250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exclamation of disgust. < 1231531252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may need to start running a local proxy here just so I can override the google.com/favicon.ico URL. < 1231531262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1231531285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use greasemonkey < 1231531297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3176 < 1231531302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'd need to do that for all installations. < 1231531310 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no, it seems that's only for bookmarks < 1231531332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use w3m and forget about retarded graphics < 1231531373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an about:config entry called browser.chrome.favicons in Firefox. < 1231531385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the name, toggling that true -> false might make them all go away. < 1231531395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it does. < 1231531399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. < 1231531413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will do that right after I switch to linux and use a 1000 sloc WM. < 1231531414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also browser.chrome.site_icons < 1231531431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm seeing the kb.mozillazone.org description of that right now. < 1231531508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1231531511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't hide the icon tho < 1231531513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jusut always default < 1231531526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site_icons preference will hide them. < 1231531532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1231531598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Documentation says it will. The favicons one is defined to force the favicon of all sites to the default, but not affect the displaying. (Or the icon displayed for image files.) < 1231531695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation seems to be a filthy liar. < 1231531843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mice are so ergonomically terrible < 1231531923 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1231532319 0 :alex89ru!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1231532567 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1231535134 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1231538358 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1231539893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1231539922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Du och dina mjölkkor < 1231539933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is that correct?) < 1231539987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't look at arch :-P <-- why not? < 1231539997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike it :-P < 1231540016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: Most certainly, but, not necessarily a priority. (PS: You should make a web-wizard distro selector, you have all the right questions) <-- that exists < 1231540019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for url
< 1231540025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1231540027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said "a". < 1231540035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in. < 1231540037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another. < 1231540038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/ < 1231540043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. We know. < 1231540044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how good it is < 1231540055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did suggest arch and gentoo for me :) < 1231540065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I already used them < 1231540077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that AnMaster buffers his output and never reads input while calculating & sending output.
< 1231540089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slackware is painful, I know, I used it < 1231540093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those "which OS are you?" questionnaires also had at least a couple of Linux distributions in there. < 1231540094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst package manager ever < 1231540103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your definition of worst. < 1231540106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no package manager < 1231540113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what Deewiant said. < 1231540114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot be the worst because it doesn't exist < 1231540118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't manage packages, it just installs them :P < 1231540119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least linux from scratch doesn't pretend to have a working package manager < 1231540124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while slackware DOES < 1231540129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1231540130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware that it did < 1231540143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it has packages < 1231540148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it has a script that takes a tarball and runs ./configure && make && make install < 1231540150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially < 1231540153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used slackware for a couple of years without touching the package manager. It wasn't very much advertised. < 1231540159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a package manager, it doesn't purport to be one < 1231540160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not slackware no, I remember installing it < 1231540164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not exactly advertised < 1231540165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary packages, *.tgz < 1231540181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for some other packages I downloaded < 1231540199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, if you've got a Befunge-93 interpreter handy run on latest (november) mycology and let me know if any BADs ensue < 1231540205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All it does is unpack a tarball to / < 1231540210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run doinst.sh < 1231540214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, install/doinst.sh < 1231540229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can tell you what's in ionstall/slack-desc < 1231540250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can remove a "package" that it's installed. And upgrade, which is really a special case of remove&install. < 1231540252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't have any verified one no, cfunge has a 93 mode, which changes space rules and so on, but won't actually forbid 98 instructions in general < 1231540257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I knew that < 1231540263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i'm talking to AnMaster < 1231540268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been thinking of making that compile time mode for extra speed ;P < 1231540269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's not a package manager. < 1231540277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with possibly greater emulation then < 1231540278 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You directed a line at me < 1231540289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was ages ago :P < 1231540305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, and I responded to it when I noticed it :-P < 1231540306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also that counts as package manager without dependency handling < 1231540313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installm, uninstall, upgrade < 1231540314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't, though < 1231540321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only dep tracking is missing < 1231540322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1231540326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your definition of package manager is wrong < 1231540336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wouldn't consider dep tracking to be important < 1231540340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only the worst package manager because your brain has the definition package manager = dependency-tracking etc < 1231540344 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working towards the ballmer peak now < 1231540355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimalism isn't for everyone < 1231540368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that web-test and it suggested me Debian and Ubuntu. I currently use Debian and Ubuntu. Clearly it must be infallible, based on my sample of N=1 persons. < 1231540370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what is it? < 1231540373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nto a package manager < 1231540377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the name for it < 1231540386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A package manager. Your definition is just wrong. < 1231540402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? I said I didn't include dep tracking in package manager < 1231540407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is something I *want* < 1231540413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an optional feature < 1231540414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, then it isn't for you. < 1231540443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed, so I stick with something slightly more advanced while still no silly gui config stuff < 1231540446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as gentoo and arch < 1231540454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I have installed LFS < 1231540458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why is it the worst package manager you've ever used? < 1231540458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CLFS and HLFS < 1231540461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't explained that yet. < 1231540523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That webtest gave me gentoo and, interestingly enough, slackware. < 1231540523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) it lacks the features that are RECOMMENDED, optional but silly to exclude (IMO) 2) it managed to loose track of files, this was around 5 years ago, slackware 9 or 10 I think, it may be better now < 1231540578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distribution chooser is _heavily_ biased to the mainstream distros. < 1231540586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, umm, I seem to get every single one. < 1231540591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not Gentoo. < 1231540600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch, Kubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva, Slackware, OpenSuSE. < 1231540612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "just show all distros" always gets the right one, but it's not exactly clever... < 1231540638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I only got two out of it. < 1231540652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that differs, I get two, Arch and Gentoo < 1231540679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't get Arch if I select that I have a 64-bit CPU, which is odd, Arch have x86_64 support nowdays < 1231540685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because I answer "I don't care" to quite a few questions because, well, I don't. < 1231540690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, 64-bit might make a difference. < 1231540702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I sort-of answered the questions so that I'd get Debian (and coincidentally Ubuntu) because I happen to be happy with this stuff. < 1231540706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes it does < 1231540732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly if it assumes I want a 64-bit system (which is the case, but still) < 1231540751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tweaks answers to try and get better results.
< 1231540761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1231540765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... is there a way to move backwards in the test? < 1231540769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x86_64 it suggests gentoo and slackware < 1231540773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it gave me Slackware+Mandriva+Kubuntu+OpenSUSE+Ubuntu+Arch < 1231540777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems no, you could just restart it < 1231540779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+Ubuntu < 1231540780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ha < 1231540785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no gentoo? < 1231540789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, no gentoo < 1231540793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1231540799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I added one more "don't care" than last time < 1231540804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of questions to answer if I just want to change one. < 1231540806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the development packages one < 1231540811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, by lying through my teeth I get another huge pile. XD < 1231540812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wording sucks, really < 1231540822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't /need/ development packages < 1231540833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /need/ X packages for all X because I'm smart enough to get em elsewhere < 1231540847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tweaks answers further
< 1231540848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway on x86/x86_64 you generally want a 64-bit distro, because a) multilib means you can run 32-bit just fine b) more registers more than compensates for increased pointer size < 1231540850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it probably thinks "aha you don't /want/ them" < 1231540859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't run multilib, I run a 32-bit chroot < 1231540863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sparc or ppc b isn't true < 1231540875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well both works the same way as far as the kernel cares < 1231540876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lies through some more teeth.
< 1231540876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) is a tradeoff; CPU for memory+disk < 1231540886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'mon, gimme slackware. < 1231540889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit you stupid machine. < 1231540893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A huge bag is not a good result < 1231540893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it depends on the program anyway. < 1231540901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, double register count more than compensates for double pointer size < 1231540909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in more than half of the cases < 1231540925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I really like about slackware is that it doesn't mess with 3rd-party apps. < 1231540926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are emphatically agreeing with what I said. :-P < 1231540933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is an especially bad offender there < 1231540937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, now I get Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Arch, Debian, Slackware if I tell it I don't care about the package management (that question is a bit silly, too, since a couple of answers are specific package formats and not about the abilities of the package management) and don't choose the 64-bit option. < 1231540944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, an -m32 build of cfunge with 32-bit cells is about 5-10% slower on this computer, nothing else differs in build < 1231540953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 64-bit cells the difference is around 70% faster < 1231540961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is only to be expected < 1231540980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 70% faster for 64-bit build < 1231540983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the package management question was really stupid as well. < 1231540994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, /most/ of them were. < 1231540996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep agreed < 1231541016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write my own chooser that always gives either Slackware or Ubuntu. < 1231541017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just one of the *least* stupid wizard style linux selector thingies I knew < 1231541045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it did give the right answers for me, that is the ones I ended up with after testing lots and lots of distros before < 1231541078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tuxs.org/chooser/ for the win < 1231541086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION answers hardcore-style
< 1231541099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet answering "Expert" to "How would you rate your technical skills?" makes it mark you as lower than "Beginner" < 1231541111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION used red hat (back when it wasn't fedora, red hat 6.0...), OpenSuSE (don't remember version), Slackware, Debian before ending up with Gentoo and Arch
< 1231541116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu was hardly around back then < 1231541118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not big yet < 1231541121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answered "expert" simply because I know many professionals that don't know jack shit < 1231541127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it afterwards < 1231541128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1231541130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your PC is fairly new and you are looking for a more technical distribution to install on your hard drive then try < 1231541131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian or Slackware < 1231541140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your PC is a few years old and you are looking for a more technical distribution to install on your hard drive then try < 1231541141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian or Slackware < 1231541152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, gee, that's some variation. < 1231541157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Note that it says "more info on Gentoo or Slackware" < 1231541162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahah < 1231541164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I bet answering "Expert" to "How would you rate your technical skills?" makes it mark you as lower than "Beginner" <-- well I *know* I'm expert, since I'm able to help even with the tricker questions in ##linux a lot of the time < 1231541191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's pretty arrogant... < 1231541195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://distrogue.awardspace.com/ was nice < 1231541201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gave me "Perfect match!" but nothing else < 1231541206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: awardspace? srsly? XD < 1231541210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I successfully cross compiled a hardened LFS, for which there is no guide :P < 1231541215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from ppc to x86 < 1231541232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you did something for which a guide did not exist < 1231541232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[AnMaster's ego shoots off the charts]] < 1231541232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a hardened guide and a cross compiling one < 1231541238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling them isn't that easy < 1231541241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you combined two guides < 1231541246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i know, I need guides _all the time_ < 1231541248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah :P < 1231541249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1231541250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breathing? < 1231541253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shit's hard, man < 1231541260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok here is how:~ < 1231541266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Breath in < 1231541269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breathing guide: http://www.breathingmatters.com/bodybm.htm < 1231541275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Wait a very short time < 1231541281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Breath out < 1231541286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) GOTO 1 < 1231541290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, but how do I combine this with the eating guide????? < 1231541292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the basics < 1231541296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: xD < 1231541298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining guides is _really hard_ < 1231541305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what version of the eating guide < 1231541320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also a hardened cross compiling toolchain is quite complex in fact < 1231541328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Do you need a 3D desktop? <- Fuck off, distro chooser XD < 1231541336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it never asked me that? < 1231541338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. Will you be using your system for gaming? <- excuse me, isn't this for Linux? < 1231541344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: deewiant linked to http://distrogue.awardspace.com/ < 1231541345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this another one? < 1231541346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here are the results: Perfect match!" Heh, that's funny. < 1231541346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1231541362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4. Do you need a 3D desktop? <- Fuck off, distro chooser XD <-- heck I need to *NOT* have oen < 1231541363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://desktoplinuxathome.com/distro.html seems okay < 1231541363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one* < 1231541371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also "This page has been viewed times." < 1231541382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck < 1231541383 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got OpenSUSE :( < 1231541384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a lot of results < 1231541391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have cookies enabled? < 1231541410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1231541412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nope. That might be it. < 1231541426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping "Yes" so I wouldn't have to do it again :-P < 1231541456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, cookies was it < 1231541461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://desktoplinuxathome.com/distro.html, my results in order: < 1231541462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: deewiant linked to http://distrogue.awardspace.com/ <-- it suggests FreeBSD, PC-BSD, SabayonLinux, Pardus, Gentoo, Arch, "Frugalware", Debian, Fedora, openSUSE, mandriva and more < 1231541463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1231541466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some aren't even linux < 1231541474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian, slackware, vector(???????????????????????????????????????????????????), gentoo < 1231541476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes on to 3 stars < 1231541478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1231541480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the lines beklow < 1231541482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect match! < 1231541483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1231541484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lists the problem < 1231541489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it lists every distro and then whether it matched) < 1231541493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1231541494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1231541498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vectorlinux.com/ wtf. < 1231541500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gives me Gentoo,Arch,Frugalware,FreeBSD-Stable,PC-BSD as "perfect matches" < 1231541502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who uses that < 1231541503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gentoo was at top < 1231541506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1231541513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why *bsd < 1231541519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't linux < 1231541524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I use freebsd and openbsd < 1231541527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as desktop < 1231541554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.vectorlinux.com/ wtf. <-- shiny! < 1231541566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://polishlinux.org/choose/quiz/ < 1231541568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ THAT seems good < 1231541572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good questions, good results < 1231541580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got {Gentoo,{Free,Open,Net}BSD,Slackware} < 1231541599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://desktoplinuxathome.com/distro.html gave me Ubuntu,Mandriva,Vector,Fedora,Gentoo,Mepis as ones with more than 3 smileys < 1231541600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of which I'd consider using {NetBSD,Slackware}, but I can understand why it gave the others < 1231541607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. How important stability and maturity is for you? < 1231541607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much < 1231541607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite much < 1231541610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite much? < 1231541616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what? < 1231541616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from a polish site < 1231541618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give em some slack < 1231541619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1231541625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...ware < 1231541625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a continuum from a lot to not at al < 1231541626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1231541626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the way saying that I have a new computer causes them to give me bloatware < 1231541637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:53 ehird, ...ware <-- Wut>? < 1231541645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : give em some slack ehird, ...ware < 1231541645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareware < 1231541647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,, < 1231541648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....* < 1231541649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1231541651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1231541653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,,,,,,,,,,,, < 1231541660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else try the polish one < 1231541661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks good. < 1231541662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polishlinux.org times out for me < 1231541666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1231541666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1231541677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish says: FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Debian, Gentoo, NetBSD. < 1231541678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://polishlinux.org.nyud.net/choose/quiz/ seems to work < 1231541681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems very BSD-friendly. < 1231541693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just ignore the BSD results, tbh < 1231541714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, question 7 is not good < 1231541716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, the Coral cache is slow < 1231541720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to contrast like this: < 1231541728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary, easy - source, hard < 1231541733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it isn't like that < 1231541734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1231541735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1231541741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen binary and hard to use < 1231541742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it, it doesn't :P < 1231541744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and source and easy < 1231541755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a crucial thing for me - I often test different software and don't have the time to play with compiling from sources, looking for dependencies and so on < 1231541756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite much - easy installation is a big plus; still I can compile and build a package once in a while < 1231541756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much - nice package management system temps, but I usually prefer to prepare packages myself so I know what exact functionality I get < 1231541757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1231541764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want easy and source, with fine level of control < 1231541770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just as easily read "build" as "make own package" < 1231541778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some system to set features I want, then have the system to build them for me < 1231541790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say, WITH_KDE=yes < 1231541794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1231541797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like freebsd uses < 1231541798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an irrelevant detail < 1231541800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set a few flags < 1231541813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it should be easy to use, track all deps < 1231541816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1231541827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have a penchant for ignoring the bigger picture and concentrating on minutae... < 1231541835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh darn, the nyud.net one sends the results to the non-cached one anyway < 1231541843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: um < 1231541846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyud.net couldn't handle POST < 1231541846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1231541851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it caches per-URL... < 1231541856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, quite < 1231541859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Gentoo Linux < 1231541860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. FreeBSD < 1231541860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. OpenBSD < 1231541860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. NetBSD < 1231541860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. Slackware Linux < 1231541862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not realize it in time < 1231541865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the polish one suggested < 1231541870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the main site still times out for me < 1231541871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is missing arch < 1231541878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i wonder if you can get it to NOT suggest bsd < 1231541884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: use a proxy? < 1231541913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why are you going to try Linux? " (http://desktoplinuxathome.com/distro.html) < 1231541922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: leave it blank < 1231541924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked for me < 1231541925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm already a Linux user" is missing < 1231541933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so leave it blank < 1231541946 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian, Fedora, KateOS, Gentoo, Ubuntu < 1231541957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why that site doesn't work from here < 1231541958 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that it has Gentoo and Ubuntu in the same list < 1231541960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kateos looks polish < 1231541965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make sense considering the site < 1231541972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sabayonlinux.org/ <-- worst distro ever or worst distro ever < 1231541973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it suggests ubuntu first, then gentoo, mandriva, vector, Mepis, Slackware, Fedora < 1231541973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1231541976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is crazy < 1231541980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I tried ubuntu < 1231541981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah it sucks :P < 1231541982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst one ever < 1231541989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are distros worse than ubuntu < 1231541991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "for desktop, not a programmer" + "newbie" + "no time for learning" + nothing else concerns me => no BSDs. < 1231541996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case in point: mandrake < 1231541998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& pclinuxos < 1231541998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well opensuse comes close < 1231542003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiz doesn't work in links < 1231542004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1231542006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't used mandriva/mandrake < 1231542011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opensuse isn't bad < 1231542016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my cup of tea, but not bad < 1231542033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually that sort of settings give Mandriva, openSUSE, Aurox, Xandros, Fedora.) < 1231542039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I used quite a few of them, and that chooser is the worst so far < 1231542043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which chooser? < 1231542057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polishlinux has been the best for me < 1231542060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the questions aren't stupid < 1231542063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice < 1231542085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Polish one. < 1231542088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I never heard of this vectorlinux before < 1231542099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the polish one wasn't too bad, except the language < 1231542110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it missed arch < 1231542115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it isn't in it's database < 1231542206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway personally I have found the distros I like, gentoo (primary desktop); arch (low end [Pentium 3 or lower] headless development computer); FreeBSD (remote server in datacenter); OpenBSD (dedicated firewalls) < 1231542210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At last: Gentoo, FreeBSD, Arch, Debian, PLD < 1231542215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLD? < 1231542221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what one is that? < 1231542224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://polishlinux.org/linux/pld/ < 1231542239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLD took some best features from couple of other distributions: RPM format from Red Hat (but PLD uses RPM-s capabilities much more efficiently), < 1231542240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't recommend that to me < 1231542241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPM is a feature? < 1231542242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1231542252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A bug, then? :-P < 1231542253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought RPM was a bug < 1231542256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1231542258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say that < 1231542262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with both of you < 1231542267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_______^ < 1231542274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers filing a bug report for every RPM-based distro
< 1231542275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seem to be quite many Polish distributions in there; surprisingly. < 1231542278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least it was back when I used red hat 6.0... Oh the nostalgia! RPM hell! < 1231542282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or, rather, not surprisingly < 1231542289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't heard of Aurox either. < 1231542293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a polish site :-P < 1231542299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nor have I < 1231542316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that vectorlinux thing, anyone ever heard of it before? < 1231542321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1231542322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's website look... shiny? < 1231542323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1231542329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is the right word, shiny < 1231542331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks rubbish < 1231542335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you heard of it before < 1231542337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best; the site says so. < 1231542338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1231542340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that was what I said :P < 1231542342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "eye candy", more like < 1231542353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiny -> rubbish < 1231542376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example for some reason I don't know the buttons on my mobile phone are shiny < 1231542378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall it being said that Vector was lightweight, but it might have been compared to Ubuntu or something < 1231542381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see all the fingerprints on it < 1231542385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black shiny < 1231542394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IMO is rubbish < 1231542397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But VectorLinux has a DELUXE version! < 1231542399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers doing LFS then killing himself
< 1231542420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is some package manager somewhat like checkinstall < 1231542426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name for it < 1231542432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway made for recording packages for LFS < 1231542438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it solves the uninstall issue < 1231542453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in their "hints" section < 1231542457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the website of lfs I mean < 1231542490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that "Go into chroot, run make install, record the differences to a file, then extract from chroot" is pretty trivial to write. < 1231542503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as these things go. < 1231542506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it was using LD_PRELOAD trick < 1231542509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than chroot one < 1231542527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1231542552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a chroot :-P < 1231542557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s what macports uses < 1231542571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well how do you know the tools you need to install are in there < 1231542572 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird whats a chroot < 1231542577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like make and so on < 1231542589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: RTFM < 1231542590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some packages might need obscure tools to install < 1231542596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, man chroot < 1231542599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why you copy the whole system to a chroot. < 1231542600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides a british dialects way of saying truth :p < 1231542611 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah its something in the shell? < 1231542611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that will take a while. 4 GB or whatever < 1231542613 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1231542618 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ch root < 1231542620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, not in shell no < 1231542621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do whatever macports does, then. < 1231542629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would use chroot + unionfs < 1231542631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, stop trying to teach psygnisfive. hopeless case. < 1231542631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid copying < 1231542633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1231542636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would really rock < 1231542640 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird shut your face :P < 1231542640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if it has been done < 1231542642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that fails when the package modifies existing files < 1231542643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1231542646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop < 1231542651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, copy-on-write? < 1231542653 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see. < 1231542658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, overlaying fs < 1231542665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that would work splendidly then < 1231542671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be easy to implement < 1231542691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then you check what was changed in the overlaying one, need to handle deleted files (unionfs write specially "whiteout" files for that iirc) < 1231542697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway one issue < 1231542710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unionfs isn't in vanilla kernel < 1231542713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1231542714 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just telling me it was a shell command makes was good enough :P < 1231542722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means you may need to wait for the patchset to be ported < 1231542727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about a vanilla kernel when you're hypothesising your own distro < 1231542732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use a LVM snapshot volume mounted in the chroot; that's copy-on-write. Although looking at changes is then a bit more difficult, with unionfs you nicely get the changed/deleted files easily. < 1231542743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, chroot isn't a shell command, it is a system call < 1231542747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopeless./ < 1231542747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case. < 1231542749 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing :P < 1231542759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because you can't track last sources, you need to wait for it to be ported to last < 1231542768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can't follow bleeding edge < 1231542779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man chroot" does give here the 'shell command' -- well, it's not a built-in, but anyway -- instead of the system call, though. < 1231542779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes that would work nicely < 1231542784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who honestly cares about a bleeding edge kernel? < 1231542810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, me? at least on my development box, on my desktop I run more stable < 1231542814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone with bleeding edge hardware. :p < 1231542815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not debian stable < 1231542817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it really matter though? < 1231542827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes because I want to test new features < 1231542827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's relatively new, does it bother you? < 1231542828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that box < 1231542837 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we talking about hardware and kernels < 1231542841 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not esoteric enough < 1231542847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: because we want to, go away if you don't like it. < 1231542856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is why it ran gcc 4.3.2 one week after it was released < 1231542857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2.6.28 did really add useful things. Someone xtables-ized the iptables "recent" module, for example, so my SSH knocking thing works for IPv6 now, too. < 1231542861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i guess it falls under the "all programmers are fashion-obsessed nerds with ADHD" axiom < 1231542865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and glibc 2.9 quite fast too < 1231542866 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be talking about a kernel written in BF! < 1231542874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are a programmer too? < 1231542878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i am. < 1231542878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure < 1231542888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have ADHD? Would explain a lot :P < 1231542896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a metaphor. :P < 1231542904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like how by fashion I didn't mean clothes. < 1231542905 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes 13. all 13 year olds have adhd. < 1231542915 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like.. required to be 13 < 1231542915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1231542918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all 13 year olds have ADHD it's hardly ADHD, is it < 1231542927 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but shut up < 1231542928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, for something to be an actual... thing it has to be non-norm < 1231542929 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1231542941 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? normal things are things! < 1231542954 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attention-deficit hyperactivity disposition. :P < 1231542959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never care for clothes. Simple classical model blue jeans that aren't pre-worn-out, and t-shirt, and due to climate something thicker over < 1231542972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster successfully derails the conversation to an irrelevant topic < 1231542973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this thing made of fleece < 1231542980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only to have everyone else pull it back again < 1231542983 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster is dressed like a lumberjack. < 1231542986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumper, jacket, sweater? < 1231542989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the UK one? < 1231542993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't keep them apart < 1231543002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which* < 1231543043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway you derailed it by starting talking about clothes! < 1231543056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't talk about clothes < 1231543064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1231543067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just like how by fashion I didn't mean clothes. < 1231543073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not talking about clothes < 1231543074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word clothes is there < 1231543081 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i googled lumberjack for a humorous picture < 1231543084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is meta-talking about not talking about clothes < 1231543084 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is what i find: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/bolson51/lumberjack.jpg < 1231543094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are confusing mentioning and changing the topic to < 1231543117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:15 @@ @run words "sleep eat haskell idle" !! (pred.read.last.words$(@show @dice 1d4)) < 1231543117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:15 "haskell" < 1231543120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I disagree < 1231543154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, going to listen to an one hour radio program :) < 1231543262 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an one" < 1231543272 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you real are an master! < 1231543272 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huzzah! < 1231543351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, an (one hour) radio program < 1231543354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the parsing < 1231543372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "one" begins with vowel sound, thus "an" < 1231543379 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it doesnt begin with a vowel :) < 1231543385 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it because with a "w" sound < 1231543394 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not written that way for historical reasons. < 1231543409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, doesn't that depend on dialect? < 1231543413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1231543421 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one" is always said with initial w. < 1231543449 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, "an" is not universally used just before vowels < 1231543456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: absolutely not < 1231543459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a one hour < 1231543467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1231543468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an one hour sounds definitively wrong < 1231543481 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, its used because the "y" glide as in "a usually red hat" < 1231543483 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a used book" < 1231543486 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1231543492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, as I mentioned my nick are from my initials < 1231543495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not relevant < 1231543496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1231543498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY now < 1231543498 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :P < 1231543501 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was being silly < 1231544191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:31 read that as "sleep eat haskell die" < 1231544192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:31 i was like "wow, what a gambler!" < 1231544194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see < 1231544195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those lines seemed familiar < 1231544199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i realised oklopol said them < 1231544233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :familiar? < 1231544240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1231544244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like I knew who would have said tem < 1231544247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them < 1231544254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, that's not a surprise < 1231544265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i'm pretty oklo < 1231545577 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-252-201.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric