< 1230163211 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't excuse putting core functionality in modules. < 1230163244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, I swear there are more modules than when I last read that page you linked.... < 1230163276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are not included in core package hm < 1230163279 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write my own damn bouncer. < 1230163286 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And every piece of software. < 1230163287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, sounds nice :) < 1230163288 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't trust others. < 1230163297 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They suck. :P < 1230163326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have my own bouncer, but znc was easier, and had what I wanted, rather than coding the missing features myself I changed to znc < 1230163337 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy xmas. < 1230163341 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Real christmas < 1230163354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, happy day after xmas < 1230163356 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miau is very simple, one network only (I use a script to launch multiple miaus) < 1230163363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Real christmas | The day after the real one < 1230163378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, ew < 1230163401 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: does it do the playback? < 1230163414 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_: yes, it has a "quicklog" < 1230163419 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1230163431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, znc does playback on every channel, I'm not sure if you can turn it off for some channels, but it may be quite possible < 1230163449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks in the web UI
< 1230163455 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you log in, it replays the quicklog. I don't remember how configurable it is < 1230163469 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: on the original channel? < 1230163480 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230163521 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, IMO irc bouncing isn't exactly _hard_. when the user is connected, you do just forward everything. when they disconnect, log everything you get from the server. when they reconnect, send the log to them and erase it. < 1230163546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, znc can do that easily < 1230163549 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it does support multiplec onnections (although I assume all others do as well) < 1230163557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm not sure is if it is per channel < 1230163559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you requested < 1230163563 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need a frobtapulous perl modulized C++ elegant blaaaaah thing just to do that < 1230163577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, you *CAN* turn off the timestamps < 1230163578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1230163584 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: what about that weird away bug < 1230163585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by setting the timestamp format string to empty < 1230163587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1230163606 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, you can disable that < 1230163610 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should, just lazy :p < 1230163610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, so that issue is solved < 1230163610 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: neat. < 1230163613 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet i could write a bouncer that makes me happy in like 50 lines of Haskell < 1230163626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it then < 1230163633 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not now :P < 1230163654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, one thing I like with znc is that you can make it automatically add/remove channels to the "auto join on connect" list if you want < 1230163659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is configurable of course < 1230163667 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but my client does that < 1230163670 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1230163683 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bouncer should: < 1230163688 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- play back things it saw when disconnected < 1230163701 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- when it gets disconnected, reconnect, send out what commands you've put in its config, and join channels it was in < 1230163704 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sit < 1230163712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, znc can do those two < 1230163718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the perform module for the second < 1230163719 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, I could probably write _everything_ I want in 50 lines of haskell < 1230163722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it to auto-oper up < 1230163725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another network < 1230163729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1230163751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :away can do the first < 1230163758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes znc can do those < 1230163765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will auto reconnect < 1230163769 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go with miau for now < 1230163770 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems ko < 1230163771 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1230163781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used the nickserv module with znc since I use other strange services < 1230163785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :account based and such < 1230163810 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --disable-ascii-art Disables fancy ASCII banner miau prints at start-up and when a client conencts to miau. < 1230163816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1230163817 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of thing is why I hated psybnc :P < 1230163825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, znc doesn't have such a thing < 1230163829 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSYCHOID AND THE MOST COOL LAM3RS GROUP EFNET < 1230163833 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it by heart < 1230163839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1230163841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one HURT < 1230163843 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hated psybnc for some other reason, can't remember what it was exactly < 1230163845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADLY < 1230163855 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it confused my client :( < 1230163861 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it prints that after it gives you the 1337 ascii art of "psybnc" when you start it up < 1230163873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, still I suggest you try several bouncers, including ezbounce and znc < 1230163893 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use this until I write my own bouncer... tomorrow. :-P < 1230163904 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me I could just start writing it now. < 1230163917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, as for znc starting I think it prints "starting znc\nloading modules\n forking into background" or something like that < 1230163920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few lines of status < 1230163949 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall call my bouncer bbbbounce < 1230163958 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B4 for short. < 1230163966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, from the openbsd release song < 1230163968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 3.9 < 1230163970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume < 1230163972 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounced "BU-BU-BU-BOUNCE" < 1230163975 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, no? < 1230163995 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think I'd quote an openbsd release song you don't know me very well :P < 1230163997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, err they said "bu-bu-bu-bounce him on your knee" in that one < 1230164005 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1230164007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is what everyone will think < 1230164016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1230164023 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because other people will know about this :-P < 1230164036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, 100% so far did :P < 1230164043 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, my bouncer < 1230164053 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be surprised if it leaves rutian/pastie.org < 1230164059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230164075 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-134.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230164169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, 0.6 mm screwhead rocks, yeah tiny indeed < 1230164178 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1230164185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is one here < 1230164187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1230164188 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my bouncer will report server disconnections weirdly: < 1230164194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1230164207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nethack-like phrase? < 1230164216 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::b4!b4@b4 PRIVMSG yourname :stuff here < 1230164225 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where b4!b4@b4 doesn't actually exist, of course. < 1230164235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be seriously confusing < 1230164245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1230164248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what znc does < 1230164249 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the reason it has ! and @ is to account for irc parsers < 1230164251 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they don't trip up < 1230164252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it messages from *status < 1230164254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying: < 1230164254 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it'll be !n=b4 < 1230164263 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right, but *status has a reasonable host name there < 1230164264 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1230164265 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1230164268 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually exists < 1230164270 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can send to it) < 1230164279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*status!znc@znc.in < 1230164282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from thgat < 1230164283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1230164299 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::*b4*!n=b4@b4 PRIVMSG :Disconnected from server, reconnecting... < 1230164313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds quite sane < 1230164325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks very similar to the znc one < 1230164336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it says: "Lost connection to server. Reconnecting..." < 1230164339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1230164357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember on the top of my head (from the top? which is the English idiom?) < 1230164385 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off the top < 1230164390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1230164485 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_License < 1230164486 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use this < 1230164521 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm going to use it < 1230164539 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why not? < 1230164545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aside from rhyming, the Poetic License is unique in its use of the first person, rather than passive legalese form, as well as the assurance of best effort. Many such licenses specifically distinguish between text and software, while the Poetic License may be applied to any work. Unlike other BSD-styled licenses, which explicitly require the copyright notice and 'this' notice to appear in all copies < 1230164545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of software and documentation, the Poetic License is vague as to the condition upon which these rights are granted. 'These rights, on this notice, rely' implies that the notice must remain in all copies, shared and/or modified." < 1230164545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1230164549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be issues there < 1230164561 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh; I'm not planning to test this in court. < 1230164579 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If the DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE, VERSION 2 has been testified to probably be valid in court by Debian lawyers, I'm sure this will to < 1230164583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) assurance of best effort 2) the Poetic License is vague as to the condition upon which these rights are granted < 1230164587 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has one clause, 1. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO) < 1230164602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_8oomfc, it has been found valid in a court? < 1230164603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok < 1230164606 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1230164613 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the debian lawyers said they thought it would be valid < 1230164617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230164620 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty much all the gpl has had until recently too < 1230164768 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is delicious < 1230164838 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Scheme < 1230164847 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, haskell. < 1230164894 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is bad. < 1230164936 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cuz monads are sooo complex < 1230164963 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it has an ugly syntax. < 1230164971 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 parenthesises
< 1230164985 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's syntax is beautiful, maybe you're just bad at it. < 1230165016 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find infix more readable, especially with things like `isPrefixOf` < 1230165028 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about readability < 1230165032 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about beauty :o < 1230165038 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's syntax is beautiful < 1230165049 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're saying is equivalent to < 1230165054 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: scheme sucks, there's too many parentheses < 1230165057 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd mess them up!! < 1230165060 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglyyyyyyyy < 1230165119 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't diss scheme bro < 1230165161 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't diss Haskell. < 1230165746 0 :mib_8oomfc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1230166086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1230166786 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1230168974 0 :calamous!n=harry@c-67-173-179-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230172955 0 :calamous!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1230180626 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1230184480 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230185615 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"YES, NO W:ET." < 1230185798 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombgirl < 1230187508 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-27-235.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230187568 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1230189182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1230189863 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230190534 0 :bsmntbombgirl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is ridiculous < 1230190537 0 :bsmntbombgirl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops wrong window < 1230190987 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230191999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1230192000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1230195844 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1230201277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1230202471 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1230206742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1230207035 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-100-143.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1230211518 0 :ais523|direct!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1230215728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230215740 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what AnMaster is hehing at
< 1230215748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff above < 1230215758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hi ais523|direct < 1230215770 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, and merry Christmas if it's today for you < 1230215772 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for me < 1230215778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was yesterday for me < 1230215786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we celebrate on the 24th here < 1230215804 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know many countries celebrate on the 24th, wasn't sure whether you did or not < 1230215806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in rest of Scandinavia < 1230215843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, seasons greetings to you < 1230215848 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1230215863 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in theory, I reckon you could get away with a season's greetings any time in Winter < 1230215866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is upgrading a remote freebsd server atm
< 1230215873 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe it's an English idiom I don't really get either < 1230215881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, technically it could work at any point during the year < 1230215886 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1230215887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different seasons < 1230215892 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that too... < 1230215925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" although maybe it's an English idiom I don't really get either" <-- well it is the religious/customs neutral version basically < 1230215938 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, maybe < 1230215949 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equally meaningless in all traditions < 1230215957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes and not offensive to anyone < 1230215960 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the acronym UTC, which was chosen because it's wrong both in English and in French < 1230215970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah indeed < 1230216033 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the hello world in Brainfuck I'm trying to debug atm is 929086 bytes < 1230216043 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's run-length encoded, too... < 1230216055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, wtf? < 1230216063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gcc-bf? < 1230216063 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much bigger without, but that's partly because some of the pointer code has hundreds of thousands of >s in a row < 1230216064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1230216065 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1230216080 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bug in my pointer handling that I know about, just haven't coded a fix yet < 1230216086 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot more bugs I don't know about < 1230216108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, considering puts() fputs() and write() I did some tests recetly < 1230216112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently* < 1230216117 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the gcc-bf distribution, not counting the gcc or newlib sources, is 929086 bytes < 1230216123 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1230216127 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121507 < 1230216129 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copied the wrong number < 1230216130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone claimed g++ -static generated much larger hello world than gcc -static < 1230216133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was true < 1230216146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I added -nostdlib /usr/lib/libc.a < 1230216158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to change to use write() too instead of puts() < 1230216168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _exit(0); instead of return 0; < 1230216174 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get gcc-bf programs a lot smaller by avoiding the stdlib < 1230216176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why for the latter < 1230216179 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know why < 1230216182 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with atexit < 1230216185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1230216186 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the need to close open files when you use exit < 1230216189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230216192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1230216195 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means stdio needs to be linked in < 1230216202 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf's default runtime has an exit() in < 1230216218 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it links stdio, that's why the hello world's so large < 1230216223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, anyway doing it that way got the size down to 6.6 KB for each. and *exactly the same binaries after strip* < 1230216226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from g++ and gcc < 1230216234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same md5sum < 1230216235 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get saner program sizes, I have a -naked option on the linker which doesn't include a limit < 1230216253 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not surprised, in theory C++ has no overhead compared to C if you don't use C++-specific features < 1230216267 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, good C style is bad C++ style < 1230216269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, yes I had to add -fno-exceptions to make it compile that way < 1230216276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for g++ < 1230216300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I got strange link time errors about symbols like __unwind_frame or such < 1230216303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember details < 1230216316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway for bf stdio, that should be one area worth optimising a lot < 1230216324 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230216327 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have a bf.h < 1230216330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe hand coding the stdio stuff to be as small as possible for gcc-bf < 1230216333 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which only contains __bf_out and __bf_in atm < 1230216343 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't really need the double-underscores if it's in a dedicated header < 1230216347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, well it should be able to replace the newlib stdio and such < 1230216356 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a project for later < 1230216364 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, here's a gcc-bf build command line: buildinto/bin/bf-gcc -Wl,-progress,-abi,-asm,-annotate,-map,-rle,-g,-trace tests/pointer.c --save-temps < 1230216377 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's due to me putting in all the debug options at once < 1230216379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I bet that is one part that will save a lot if you replace < 1230216389 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, a new stdio would be nice, but difficult < 1230216390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-abi,-asm? < 1230216398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1230216398 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-abi and -asm save two of the temporaries the linker uses < 1230216402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230216404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1230216417 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-map does just what it does in any other linker (although it often has a different name) < 1230216424 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-progress shows progress bars, because it's slow < 1230216438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, why would a special bf stdio library optimized for size/speed be difficult? < 1230216446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean apart from bf always being a pain < 1230216446 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because stdio itself is difficult < 1230216450 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to pin down all the corner cases < 1230216456 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could have a nonconforming stdio-lite < 1230216463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, if I were to write it I would probably do something like C with inline bf < 1230216483 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting < 1230216496 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there isn't all that much free tape atm < 1230216505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe parts could be pure bf even < 1230216515 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most of gcc-bf doesn't generate pure bf < 1230216516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, you may need to increase memory then? < 1230216528 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I could just create extra memory < 1230216535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1230216542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said not a lot of free taoe < 1230216543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape* < 1230216555 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem's just that every tape cell is already used for something, well most of them < 1230216564 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could just move everything to the right and use new cells at the left, for instance < 1230216614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1230216615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1230216635 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, the BF tape is basically used to emulate a CPU < 1230216641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1230216645 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the CPU was designed to be easy to emulate in BF) < 1230216651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1230216693 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a bf interp designed specifically for debugging gcc-bf < 1230216697 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can read its RLE output < 1230216699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1230216702 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reads its comments too < 1230216711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right, but can't you just do like the program does < 1230216712 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it knows quickly when something went wrong, and does a core-dump of the tape < 1230216713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc a block < 1230216716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it?? < 1230216721 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but mallocing's pretty slow < 1230216726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1230216728 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, it involves pointers < 1230216730 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're very slow < 1230216734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about static buffers? < 1230216745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't need to involve pointers < 1230216755 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have static buffers just fine < 1230216761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can pre-calculate where in the memory the buffer is < 1230216773 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allocate a static buffer, gcc-bf will reserve every 6th element in a region of the tape (of its own choice) for it < 1230216776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need any sort of indirection when accessing said buffer < 1230216777 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go there with > and < < 1230216783 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly < 1230216790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inded < 1230216790 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so static buffers are pretty efficient in it < 1230216806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, that could be an issue if you don't know your exact current position? < 1230216810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, in a recursive call < 1230216818 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf always knows its exact current position < 1230216827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hm ok < 1230216828 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the main architectural choices I made in it < 1230216842 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that, but -annotate writes the position as comments in the BF code < 1230216855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, how can it know that if the stack frame is of unkown size? < 1230216859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say due to using alloca() < 1230216868 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses symbolic positions < 1230216874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1230216876 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%sp means it's pointing to the top of stack, for instance < 1230216884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean in the bf code < 1230216887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is generated in the end < 1230216921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it know a fixed count of > or < needed to move to a static buffer and to get back < 1230216940 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it always moves via a particular location < 1230216947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, ah, and that is? < 1230216958 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a dead zone of 6 cells, which is never used < 1230216962 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, always 0 < 1230216971 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always knows how to get to one of the cells in that range < 1230216976 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by extension, any given cell in that range) < 1230216993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and this dead zone is used for scratch storage or? < 1230216998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during calculations < 1230216999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1230217003 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's used for homing the pointer < 1230217011 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many parts of memory are full of 1s < 1230217029 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, for instance, starting at the stack pointer <<<<<[[<<<<<<]<<<<<<] will always land on a particular cell in the dead zone < 1230217047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, right < 1230217050 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every 6th cell contains a 1, apart from the start of a stack frame < 1230217061 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stack frames have to be at least 2 bytes, according to the processor ABI < 1230217073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, you have a copy of the stack frame every 6th byte!? < 1230217080 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1230217086 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't fit < 1230217090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you mean then < 1230217099 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of every 6th bytes together lets you determine where the stack frames are < 1230217107 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're 1 if a stack frame doesn't start there, or 0 if it does < 1230217135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1230217146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can easily search for it < 1230217147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1230217149 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230217158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know in what direction? < 1230217161 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two 0s in a row mean you're either at top of stack (to the right) or in the dead zone (to the left) < 1230217174 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever the exact numerical location isn't known, we're to the right of the dead zone < 1230217179 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the left of that is just registers and temp cells < 1230217184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230217218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to move to a static area you just move to the dead zone then move a fixed number of cells from it? < 1230217222 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230217231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me wonder how gcc-bf would handle buffer overflow < 1230217246 0 :cpu-jockey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1230217247 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles buffer overflow the same way as any other processor, it goes and overwrites memory < 1230217259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, could it corrupt the internal state < 1230217264 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird stuff happens on buffer /underflow/, though, if it happened to be at the start of memory < 1230217268 0 :cruce!n=c@im.the.cat JOIN :#esoteric < 1230217277 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because the pointers are multiplied by 6 internally < 1230217279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did I understand you right, for every 6 cells in memory there is one with actual program memory? < 1230217288 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1230217293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1230217296 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program itself is compiled into BF, not into bytecode and interpreted < 1230217302 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program is the program, it isn't stored on the tape anywhere < 1230217306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1230217312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean as in heap < 1230217313 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 6 cells, there are 2 which hold memory, one on the stack and one on the heap < 1230217314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or stack < 1230217319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1230217326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stack and heap are interleaved!? < 1230217327 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230217334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are separate segments? < 1230217335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230217339 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, separate segments < 1230217341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the pointers look like then < 1230217353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, segment selector first or what? < 1230217362 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00?????? for a function pointer, 0x01?????? for a stack pointer, 0x02?????? for a heap/static pointer < 1230217375 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segment selector's in the MSB < 1230217375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1230217390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte or bit? < 1230217394 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 4 bytes have weightings of 3, 65536*6, 256*6, 6 cells < 1230217399 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're byte pointers < 1230217403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1230217421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, MSB could be MS(Byte|Bit) < 1230217433 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok, but it's byte in this case < 1230217438 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hex representations should have given it away < 1230217447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1230217463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, hm function pointers support jumping anywhere or? < 1230217468 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230217477 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire program's basically in a massive switch statement, written in BF < 1230217484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could probably be optimized away < 1230217488 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of any basic block, the address of the next basic block is set < 1230217496 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, that's very efficient with a decent interp and hardly uses any code < 1230217526 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the hyper-efficient way to end a program in gcc-bf is neither exit(0) nor _exit(0), it's goto *(void*)0;) < 1230217536 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the last is somewhat compiler-specific < 1230217540 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes no sense in standard C < 1230217548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you only need to jump to start of function, setjmp() calls, and for flow control inside functions (which could be a smaller switch for each function): labels, while, for, if and so on < 1230217581 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to jump anywhere is pretty convenient, and it's not a computational order slowdown thing < 1230217602 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it switches on the bottom 24 bits of the pointers, in blocks of 8 bits at a time < 1230217603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, I would assume it is undefined in C if you jump to any memory address that isn't a function pointer you got in a legal way < 1230217611 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes it is < 1230217621 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd still need to be able to jump to the address of any function < 1230217640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so each block, that means each line or each ; or what? < 1230217643 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it would be nice if gcc-bf supported C++ too, and g++ does weird things with code pointers to handle exceptions < 1230217661 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a block's a set of commands with linear control flow < 1230217673 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, no jumping into or out of it < 1230217673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you can't jump inside such a block? < 1230217682 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nor call a function inside a block < 1230217684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that makes me wonder < 1230217691 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they tend to start and end in the middle of statements < 1230217699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, ouch right < 1230217701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1230217706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me wonder a bit < 1230217707 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can make it slightly confusing to debug < 1230217722 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go for a while, Christmas dinner < 1230217728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be possible to optimize some stuff better if you could reduce jump points < 1230217729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct, cya < 1230217747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example << and then >> but with jump related stuff in between < 1230217897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump related stuff never used < 1230217949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: while (i != 0) { j += my_static_array[i--]; } < 1230217960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would probably be a for loop in most C programs < 1230217974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this way is more BF-like < 1230218000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that while loop could probably be turned into a very simple and basic bf loop < 1230219210 0 :mib_vvzkm4!i=5b695942@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-29b4adc9ea7ee40a JOIN :#esoteric < 1230219218 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo people. < 1230219220 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523|direct < 1230219221 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION = ehird
< 1230219650 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody here? Not even AnMaster ? < 1230219658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1230219659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I am < 1230219671 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. :P < 1230219671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 went to eat xmas dinner < 1230219678 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. < 1230219768 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought: < 1230219771 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have the Poetic License < 1230219774 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need the Driver's License < 1230219899 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F90BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1230220170 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230220313 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1230220324 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: there's the Artistic Licence too < 1230220329 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all this time, I never realised it was a pun < 1230220406 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Poetic License is nice. < 1230220407 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... eso-std.org's still down < 1230220412 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is using it for the IRC bouncer he's writing
< 1230220414 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry christmas ehird, anyway < 1230220417 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: yes, I haven't got cherokee up yet < 1230220421 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left it yesterday < 1230220432 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the artistic licence is, by chance, the only one to be tested in court < 1230220444 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had some problems with checkinstall < 1230220452 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, gonna write a bouncer while i think how to fix them :P < 1230220461 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an #esotericians christmas! < 1230220480 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boxing day for AnMaster < 1230220483 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever thehy call it over there < 1230220502 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"christmas day 1" < 1230220507 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they celebrate on "christmas eve" < 1230220513 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have two christmas days after that, sans celebration < 1230220521 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they celebrate on dec 24, nothing wrong with that < 1230220522 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1230220525 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the date's uncertain < 1230220529 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: but they call it christmas eve < 1230220560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is christmas day and "secondday christmas" (literal translation, it sounds "Olde Swedish" in Swedish, basically that form only exists in that specific phrase) < 1230220569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days < 1230220707 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where to put the current version of gcc-bf
< 1230220717 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: filebin.ca? < 1230220720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is it? < 1230220722 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nowhere near finished, but it's finished enough to try to run some specially constructed programs in < 1230220743 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a bit over 100K, not counting the source to gcc and to newlib which you already have IIRC < 1230220752 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin.ca < 1230220754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean the stuff you would upload < 1230220757 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got rid of the calls to realpath, I think it still works < 1230220800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230220819 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/txobpp/gcc-bf.tar.gz then < 1230220982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1230220989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try it later < 1230220993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit busy atm < 1230221000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrading a freebsd server remotely < 1230221002 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1230221017 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to try it right away, just thought I'd transfer the file while we were both online < 1230221029 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at the state of "in theory almost finished, in practice incredibly buggy" < 1230221046 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and atm I'm just using a development model of "write test case, repeatedly fix the first bug it discovers until it works" < 1230221114 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe there isn't a simple sha1 :: String -> String in Haskell's Hackage library store. < 1230221128 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't WANT ByteString -> Digest, damnit. < 1230221132 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha1s aren't strings, they're numbers... < 1230221137 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably it's to do with unicod < 1230221137 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1230221139 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String -> Integer < 1230221139 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unicode < 1230221144 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is, but it's irrelevant < 1230221147 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found one that does it nicely < 1230221149 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not in hackage < 1230221152 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for god knows what reason < 1230221158 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add it < 1230221165 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'd have to fiddle with it to make it work properly < 1230221195 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, and it's GP < 1230221195 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L < 1230221226 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the gpl. < 1230221231 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the licence for gcc-bf at the moment is "undecided, but it's going to be something that can legally be used in a GPL3 program" < 1230221248 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: BSD2/BSD3/MIT/Poetic < 1230221252 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, LGPL < 1230221254 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1230221273 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: oh, or the DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE, VERSION 2 < 1230221285 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it demands its full formal name...) < 1230221288 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the bits designed to go into gcc itself will be GPL3+ as gcc itself is, the libraries will probably be BSD3, not sure about the linker yet < 1230221292 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/) < 1230221301 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know the WTFPL, but not the Poetic < 1230221309 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_License < 1230221311 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poem license. < 1230221622 0 :psygnisf_!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230221630 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1230221960 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: that might be interestingly risky, although probably not < 1230221969 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a typical lawyer silliness < 1230221995 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the law says that warranty disclaimers have to be prominent, or obvious, or something like that (I can't remember the exact word) or they don't count < 1230222004 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's court precedent that writing them in allcaps is one way to do that < 1230222012 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: ISC isn't allcaps. < 1230222021 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result, professional licence-writing lawyers have always written warranty disclaimers in allcaps < 1230222028 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true < 1230222029 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's precedent that way works, why gamble on any other method? < 1230222046 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: Well, they're the inferior soulless beings of the world. :-P < 1230222069 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: Isn't copyright law _all_ about intent, anyway? < 1230222080 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely, unfortunately < 1230222095 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, otherwise it would be impossible to tell whether you were allowed to copy something or not < 1230222108 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: ok, reasonably obvious intent < 1230222113 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like with copyright infringment < 1230222122 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it the other way round can be interesting, though < 1230222134 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intent of the copyright holder, as opposed to the intent of the copier < 1230222136 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does that matter? < 1230222154 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1230222163 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know off by heart either < 1230222163 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd say that the Poetic License probably won't be judged to not work because it isn't allcaps. < 1230222185 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amusing thing is even the professional lawyers seem to mess up < 1230222204 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the famous APA contract between SCO and Novell, for instance, was unclear enough for people to argue all sorts of weird things about it < 1230222217 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they should get nomic players to look the contracts over < 1230222242 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if r101/town fountain work poetic license does too :-P < 1230222271 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have SCO appealed the most recent judgment against them yet? < 1230222273 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: I don't think the town fountain is an RL-binding warranty disclaimer < 1230222287 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: not yet as far as I know < 1230222294 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sent a letter to the courts saying they planned to, or something < 1230222309 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got an answer back saying vaguely "make sure you follow procedure to the letter and we're not going to bother to tell you what it is" < 1230222312 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, I wish they'd just die already. < 1230222349 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other things that showed the court in question was aware of SCO, like talking about how delaying tactics were unwise < 1230222383 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really like novell either tho < 1230222402 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see SCO vs. IBM get judged < 1230222404 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime < 1230222425 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM winning that will be infinitely more amusing than Novell mostly winning < 1230222426 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I like Red Hat, as far as linux companies go. at least, I haven't heard of them doing bad stuff < 1230222438 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as SCO's argument in that one was a lot less plausible than their argument against Novell < 1230222441 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, SCO winning against IBM would probably be even funnier, albeit disasterous < 1230222460 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I could see the amusement in that, tbh < 1230222464 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just make no sense < 1230222488 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, we invented Moore's Law and used it to prove that Itanium being unpopular was a conspiracy! Oh, and that means we own Linux, for some reason!" < 1230222499 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over-the-top ridiculousness applied to formal beorcracy (I can never spell that word) is always funny < 1230222505 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bureaucracy < 1230222517 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could remember buraeu, cracy but thatwould be too logical < 1230222528 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, even that prisoner who went and tried to intervene in SCO vs. Novell < 1230222536 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha what < 1230222537 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguing that SCO's lawyers weren't doing a very good job and he could do better? < 1230222547 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahah < 1230222560 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: it seems he's some sort of "artist" who uses comedic lawsuits as a medium < 1230222574 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1230222580 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's sued an incredibly large number of people, some of whom don't exist < 1230222591 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you sue yourself? < 1230222595 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1230222599 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope so < 1230222600 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be expensive, so probably not worth it < 1230222604 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to get money off myself. < 1230222637 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but most of it would go to the lawyers < 1230223507 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: you can't use a GPL library in a non-GPL program right? < 1230223509 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even gpl-compat < 1230223524 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, the resulting combination is GPL < 1230223532 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1230223540 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you have to distribute the source to your non-GPL program under the GPL < 1230223557 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, pretty much locking it into GPL-only distribution terms for any derivatives < 1230223570 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could licence it multilicence BSD/GPL, but nobody will be able to use the BSD half < 1230223603 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the gpl dies. < 1230223610 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really don't like it that much? < 1230223646 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wealth of libraries that I can't use because I disagree with how it goes about things, or just because it's not suitable for the certain thing I'm working on? < 1230223655 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no reason other than a stupid political statement by rms? < 1230223663 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be very happy if it disappeared. < 1230223670 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people licencing libraries under the GPL are more or less deliberately saying "I only want this to be used in GPL programs" < 1230223683 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's ridiculous < 1230223696 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, btw, is why gcc-bf's runtime libraries won't be licenced under just GPL < 1230223696 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wealth of libraries that I can't use because I disagree with how it goes about things, or just because it's not suitable for the certain thing I'm working on. < 1230223737 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use them because you don't want to make your own code GPL, actually < 1230223741 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also makes sense < 1230223839 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: I don't want to use the GPL because "I disagree with how it goes about things, or just because it's not suitable for the certain thing I'm working on." < 1230223861 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230223893 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument really is that you have someone who doesn't want their libraries to be used in a closed-source way under any circumstances, therefore obviously you can't use them in your program that you do want to be usable like that < 1230224013 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: the point is, its viral nature is stopping me using perfectly good open source libraries -- heck, one of them is just a direct transliteration of the sha1 spec to haskell -- that would be absolutely fine non-GPL'd and I'm not even using it commercially, just in a non-GPL program < 1230224017 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in summary, the GPL sucks. < 1230224027 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, people have been applying it to the wrong things < 1230224073 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or they're people who don't like their work being used in a closed-source program ever < 1230224086 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: there is no correct use < 1230224086 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might not share that attitude, I'm surprised that you seem not to understand it < 1230224093 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really share that attitude either...) < 1230224109 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, there will always be people who want copyleftness for some reason or otehr < 1230224111 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing the GPL's viral nature is useful for is to stop it getting into commercial software < 1230224117 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just anti-commercial paranoia < 1230224119 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly to stop people messing with the licence terms < 1230224138 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: for free software, what terms can there be < 1230224151 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from "you can do anything but you have to include this notice" < 1230224154 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: let's say, someone releases a derivative of your software under an ecolicence < 1230224163 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it becomes popular, but you can't use it legally < 1230224164 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only t hing that actually needs viralness < 1230224167 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is stopping commercial software using it < 1230224175 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe this is misguided. < 1230224177 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: or stopping people adding extra terms to the licences < 1230224185 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it this way, suppose you release a BSD library < 1230224187 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: so what < 1230224193 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone modifies it to make it more useful, and releases the result under GPL < 1230224199 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you be happy with that? < 1230224213 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think they're an ass, but I wouldn't try and stop them. < 1230224223 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, you couldn't easily < 1230224230 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the GPL library became a lot more popular than your original? < 1230224233 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't see the need to formalize human reasonableness and decency. < 1230224240 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: sucks to be me, I guess. < 1230224247 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: ok, I think I see your logic < 1230224258 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truth is, most people aren't as trusting of everyone in the world as you are < 1230224269 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: It's not about trusting. < 1230224271 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't do anything to -you-. < 1230224288 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, if you don't "trust" people, don't release it as free software < 1230224292 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can cause you to have wasted your time... < 1230224293 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they modify it < 1230224295 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make it WORSE < 1230224301 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gets more popular than the original?!!! < 1230224306 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the new version is unlikely to catch on, if it's sufficiently worse < 1230224319 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: no, in the kind of broken way that seems better to most people < 1230224324 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btu for the people who actually know how it works, is crappy < 1230224332 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leads to problems further along the lines < 1230224333 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then arguably it is better < 1230224339 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, phpBB is coded awfully < 1230224341 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's pretty popular < 1230224343 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: no, because it leads to serious problems in the end < 1230224344 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1230224349 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should add a clause to the GPL4 < 1230224352 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is leading to serious problems in the end... < 1230224356 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Derivatives of the software must improve on it." < 1230224367 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will stop bad people from making it worse. < 1230224376 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: would you consider releasing software under BSD plus that clause? < 1230224379 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow, i don't think so < 1230224386 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1230224395 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users of the software must brush their teeth, and floss < 1230224407 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're ensuring our users stay free and healthy! < 1230224413 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think the main reason the GPL is designed as it is, is to avoid the scenario of someone getting a copy of the software but not be able to tinker with it < 1230224430 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS was putting himself in the end-user's position, and deciding he was really annoyed with inability to tinker < 1230224437 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/software/a derivative of software/, you mean < 1230224444 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even the original < 1230224454 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d(software)/dx? :o < 1230224460 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's illegal for me to send you unmodified GPL binaries, but not tell you where the source is < 1230224470 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing to do with viral nature < 1230224472 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's OK, imo < 1230224478 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nto for derivatives, really < 1230224479 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1230224488 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in which case, ais523|direct -- didn't you say "its the devs choice to not allow it to be used commercially" < 1230224500 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say that exactly < 1230224503 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it's the developer of a derivative's choice to not allow it to be modified < 1230224520 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: the problem with derivatives is they have to respect the original author's wishes too < 1230224528 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, if someone founded a business by taking my library, and adding their own top-secret magic juice that makes their product amazing and they sell loads and blah blah blah < 1230224534 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, not releasing the source is absolutely fine, good on them < 1230224536 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm perfectly happy with people releasing non-derivative software under a noderivs licence < 1230224550 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or derivative software where the original author's happy with that < 1230224552 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's their business, as long as they retain my name in there, that's OK < 1230224563 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone shares your attitude, especially if they have a job < 1230224581 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively, if you write a BSD-licenced library, you're doing other people's work for them < 1230224586 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are happy with that, some people aren't < 1230224593 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. that's called free software/open source. < 1230224594 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy thing that. < 1230224602 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230224637 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... in the GPL world, everyone ends up having to give back by the nature of the licence, that makes it more acceptable to some people to GPL in the first place < 1230224648 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if you create BSD works, other people could use them and not give anything back < 1230224664 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you create GPL works, other people who modify them have to either keep the modifications to themselves, or give them to everyone < 1230224671 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. if it's their innovation, fine. it's their right to keep it to themselves. < 1230224676 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than the usual middle ground of giving them only to paying customers, for instance) < 1230224681 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it'd be nicer if they released it, but free software is about freedom, anyway < 1230224701 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue was a big believer in public domain (probably still is), and I see his point too, by the way < 1230224712 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he still is < 1230224730 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this argument, I think, is all about how much people should have the freedom to limit other people's freedom < 1230224731 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a real license due to the shaky legal status of PD < 1230224745 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering modifying an existing one to remove the required-notice stuff < 1230224748 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creative Commons have written a ridiculously detailed PDing licence < 1230224749 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be effectively pd < 1230224754 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more PDing than their old one < 1230224754 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: it's pd-emulation < 1230224757 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1230224758 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it explicitly grants all rights < 1230224764 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and one at a time! < 1230224770 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1230224778 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can brush your teeth with this work." < 1230224782 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can nkep with this work." < 1230224790 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzUIY*Q&Y$* on a sunday morning with this work." < 1230224803 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are only a finite number of things that are illegal to do with copyrighted works anyway, and they're each explicitly made legal < 1230224808 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the law is only finitely long... < 1230224853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except - it's not necessarily the same in all countries, is it? < 1230224861 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's why the licence is so long I think < 1230224868 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having to cover all the possibilities < 1230224876 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/nano-md5/0.1.2/doc/html/Data-Digest-OpenSSL-MD5.html < 1230224876 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1230224885 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd3 < 1230224924 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: you are going to put their copyright notice in the materials accompanying the distribution, right? < 1230224946 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, isn't that implicit for shared libraries as long as you don't include their source? < 1230224960 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not modifying or redistributing it, after all < 1230224963 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, assuming the person got the shared library legitimately < 1230224973 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the answer is no :-P < 1230224977 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you using it and not redistributing it? telling people to get it from hackage themselves? < 1230224981 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1230224984 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work < 1230225001 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, also putting it in the cabal file so that when I put it on hackage it auto-downloads those as dependencies. < 1230225438 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew. someone referring to an operating system as just "GNU". < 1230225463 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I consider GNU to be an operating system whose shell is Emacs and for which they still haven't written the kernel < 1230225472 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurd!!!!!!!!111111111 < 1230225481 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the correct name is GNU/Suicide, though. < 1230225494 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read Stallman's original famous message, he mentioned that he wanted both C and Lisp as system programming languages < 1230225497 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1230225508 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows in the awful gnu c code. < 1230225511 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think GNU Emacs was intentionally, not just accidentally, designed to be an OS < 1230225529 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted a program that could do everything he wanted. < 1230225529 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes. < 1230225530 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Stallman's disappointed that people keep mistaking it for an editor < 1230225606 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the zippiness I'm experiencing thanks to this here 2.5 GB of RAM is just placebo. < 1230225609 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Answer: probably.) < 1230225620 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :placebo zippiness is great, though < 1230225624 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :P < 1230225636 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the computer seem just as responsive as real zippiness, but without the hardware costs < 1230225655 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2gb of ram only costs like £15 nowadays < 1230225679 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: unfortunately, this is placebo zippiness, plus the hardware costs < 1230225680 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1230225721 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1230225733 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mibbit smilies are ugly < 1230225755 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urd < 1230225759 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urd < 1230225765 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&yes < 1230225771 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\&/*/ < 1230225773 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought urd was like oko < 1230225782 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just a common typo of mine < 1230225799 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caused by alt-tabbing to an IRC window and trying to type yes before I've got my hands back to the usual position < 1230225838 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230225911 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could become a new meme I suppose, but oko has more power < 1230225914 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an obvious response < 1230226010 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, the same doesn't happen with "no", because that's typed with the right hand) < 1230226209 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proto: vim merges with emacs < 1230226225 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose it might happen < 1230226235 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd probably just end up with some sort of reverse viper < 1230226239 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lol" < 1230226243 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to imagine vim with emacs keybindings
< 1230226265 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's ever been an #esoteric meetup. < 1230226273 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be scary < 1230226281 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@h29.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230226287 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary awesome < 1230226317 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1230226342 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impractical due to the huge variety of countries and continents that esotericers are in < 1230226351 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, ofc I meant country-local < 1230226367 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think there are more than 3 or 4 people from any one country here < 1230226387 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many englishmen here... me, you, SimonRC... anyone else? < 1230226431 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English or British? < 1230226551 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: either I guess. < 1230226662 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: wat < 1230226673 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: I CTCP TIMEd the whole of #esoteric < 1230226679 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230226682 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to narrow down nationalities based on timezones < 1230226708 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only two people responded in UTC+0, neither of them were either of us < 1230226724 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lots of UTC+1 and UTC+2 though < 1230226724 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1230226731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo! < 1230226738 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_vvzkm4: well, Mibbit doesn't resopnd to ctcp time, I think < 1230226741 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lol" < 1230226742 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi oerjan < 1230226759 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my global ctcp doesn't hit myself < 1230226774 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an #esoteric meetup would probably culminate in two things < 1230226780 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most horrifying programming language ever, and < 1230226783 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most horrifying program ever < 1230226785 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) gay sex < 1230226789 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1230226792 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that would happen. < 1230226803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Slereah in a gentle, caring way -----###
< 1230226810 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1230226815 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: get a room < 1230226817 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't want you to swat me by mistake... < 1230226827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1230226867 0 :bsmntbombgirl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1230226917 0 :bsmntbombgirl!n=gavin@97-118-133-165.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230227239 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1230227536 0 :bsmntbombgirl!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1230227645 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what is going on with your nick? I'm getting disturbed < 1230227659 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: numerous sex changes, apparently. < 1230227670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON"T JUDGE ME < 1230228069 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1230228079 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1230228194 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1230228206 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1230228354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, < 1230228359 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1230228367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, < 1230228375 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1230228592 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1230228599 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1230228737 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-5-244.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230229612 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I dislike IRC. < 1230229618 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to build the ultimate chat protocol with me? < 1230229623 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll have lasers. And kittens. < 1230229624 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like IRC < 1230229632 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: Multiple kittens. < 1230229647 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already has one unfulfilled promise of kittens this year < 1230229650 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*had < 1230229653 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1230229656 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really expect me to fall for another? < 1230229660 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was in RL, not online < 1230229665 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1230229672 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: well, these are kittens, with, lasers < 1230229676 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the lasers make them more real. < 1230229816 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a chat system need that, though? < 1230229842 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: popularity. < 1230229848 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this system could replace email too. < 1230229852 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stick to IRC < 1230229857 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindainstantchatkittenlaser < 1230230087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think kittens with lasers may have harmful effects on your mice. < 1230230095 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you dislike about IRC? < 1230230101 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using a mouse atm < 1230230107 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, right now, although I have one I have nowhere to put it < 1230230138 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: not enough kittens < 1230230146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually i'm using a pad myself < 1230230183 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are cat bots, and fish bots < 1230230191 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need a kitten bot < 1230230204 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss fishbot :( < 1230230232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a fishbot? < 1230230240 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on quakenet, there was. < 1230230245 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I submit a consultation. "Any person is, durign any voting period allowed to abstain from voting for that voting period." ]] < 1230230251 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. It's in the secret rule. < 1230230263 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did fishbot do? < 1230230323 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It m00ed < 1230230373 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's generally pretty useless, but is usually in hundreds (thousands?) of channels < 1230230615 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20080129154023/www.telkman.co.uk/f/commands.php < 1230230853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have thought that would be more a cowbot's thing < 1230230974 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any sentence with vinegar and aftershock in it" < 1230231016 0 :mib_vvzkm4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1230231018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1230231035 0 :mib_ewzho7!i=5b695942@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e0f17c776dbc170e JOIN :#esoteric < 1230231204 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1230231207 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I implement... < 1230231216 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about iota < 1230231262 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting < 1230231272 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but not this awful one: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~gmb13/Iota/ < 1230231274 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier than Unlambda < 1230231330 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, first-class XML? < 1230231360 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of the non-eso branch of bad language design, IMO < 1230231478 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1230231489 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/ftvs4xhdakpj8qdw0eya < 1230231501 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ruby, which is odd for me recently. < 1230231514 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to figure out what lang that was < 1230231518 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guessed Ruby just before you told me < 1230231522 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230231530 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the { |x| ... } was a giveaway < 1230231538 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Ruby whitespace-sensitive, by the way? < 1230231542 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1230231547 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1230231549 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do < 1230231554 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thus the "end" keywords < 1230231554 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defx2end < 1230231560 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I meant as in Python < 1230231564 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't use indentation for structure < 1230231564 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said indentation-sensitive < 1230231583 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ends can get a bit ugly if you have very-nested structures < 1230231589 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is to not have them < 1230231592 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(split them up) < 1230231596 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't stack as well as ))))) or }}} < 1230231600 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1230231605 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: incidentally, < 1230231619 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = proc do |x| proc do |y| x end end < 1230231622 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have worked too < 1230231627 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for blocks, do = { and end = } < 1230231628 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realises that there's hardly any, if any, [[[ or ]]] in gcc-bf
< 1230231637 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter, there's not a whole lot of [[ or ]] < 1230231646 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, [[ ... ]] is just [ ... ] ... < 1230231652 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1230231655 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1230231660 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean [[ ... ] ... ] is something I use from time to time < 1230231671 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [ ... [ ... ]], or anything with [[[ or ]]], is really rare < 1230231676 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1230231683 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm liking Ruby again < 1230231703 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longest patterned bits of code are the [-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-...s at the start of the switch statements < 1230231725 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the 300,000+ consecutive >s, but if you're sane you leave those run-length-encoded, as they come up quite a lot < 1230231907 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: any #esoteric meetup will inevitably culminate in making a clone of the LHC that actually works and destroys the world < 1230231911 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in brainfuck < 1230231914 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and subleq < 1230231928 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LHC isn't designed to destroy the world! < 1230231928 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made entirely out of tape. < 1230231932 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so world destruction != actually working < 1230231941 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: it is. < 1230231942 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secretly. < 1230231978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_ewzho7: we don't have the resources to make a collider < 1230231996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _might_ be able to make an evil AI, though < 1230232012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1230232021 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no we do < 1230232024 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all in the specific brand of tape < 1230232024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we make an evil AI which then builds the collider < 1230232029 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1230232031 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was about to say < 1230232084 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that's brilliant! < 1230232092 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all this time, I was lamenting the lack of any truly evil genii < 1230232106 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody is that maniacally insanely evil in practice < 1230232115 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, an AI could be programmed to be evil, avoiding the problem < 1230232128 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y6666665yty7u77uyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy767yyyyy6 < 1230232137 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, hair on my keyboard, I was trying to get rid of it < 1230232140 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er*(&!(*&18y227222222222222LOST CARRIER < 1230232344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: it's all right we won't disrespect you just because you have spasms < 1230232356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much, anyhow < 1230232378 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's my habit recently of pressing enter to clear a line, especially on IRC, to make an interesting topic of conversation < 1230232457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1230232459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss! < 1230232470 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1230232493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brute force argument if i ever saw one < 1230232506 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A aaaa aa aaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaa a aaaaaaa aaaaaa aaaa aaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaa a'a aaaaaaa aaaaa. < 1230232532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1230232566 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserting in a priority queue is O(log n) right? < 1230232585 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are LRU caches implemented? < 1230232629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the right implementation i think so < 1230232750 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1230232760 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone name a few sequences that 42 is in < 1230232763 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-known I maen < 1230232765 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1230232770 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the natural numbers < 1230232778 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.- < 1230232790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the even numbers < 1230232797 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think whitespace between a function and the opening parenthesis for the arguments used to raise a warning that things might change < 1230232801 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1230232812 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the past < 1230232813 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-prime numbers < 1230232822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the imperfect numbers < 1230232871 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catalan numbers < 1230232875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1230232881 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cheated < 1230232907 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1230232919 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/?q=42&go=Search :) < 1230232921 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of numbers which are the product of two consecutive integers in two ways < 1230233222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's always two ways or none, i think < 1230233659 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm the [[priority queue]] says that inserting AND removing are O(log n) < 1230233666 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in your silly commutative algebrae < 1230233666 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't one be constant and the other be log < 1230233722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making overall time for sorting O(n log n) < 1230233778 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's n log n both ways round < 1230233786 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because O(2n log n) = O(n log n) < 1230233790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If a self-balancing binary search tree is used, all three operations take O(log n) time" < 1230233819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fibonacci heaps can insert elements, peek at the maximum priority element, and increase an element's priority in amortized constant time (deletions are still O(log n))." < 1230233830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really depends on which implementation you use < 1230233843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i must have missed that < 1230233905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i cut off the first too soon < 1230233914 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting to peak but not delete in constant time < 1230233918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The binary heap uses O(log n) time for both operations, but allows peeking at the element of highest priority without removing it in constant time." < 1230233938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait < 1230233955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION confuses himself, all three pastes were right
< 1230235344 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235344 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235346 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235347 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235348 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235348 0 :decipher!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235349 0 :Badger!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235350 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235353 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235354 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1230235781 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-252-1-30-172.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :ais523|direct!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :mib_ewzho7!i=5b695942@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e0f17c776dbc170e JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-5-244.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :Badger!i=badger@tremulous/player/badger JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :decipher!n=decipher@lyseo.edu.ouka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235781 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1230235795 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1230235829 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1230235833 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1230236263 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1230236279 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you dare try to start another game of that < 1230236282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1230236283 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1230236287 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1230236289 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in no mood for being thrashed yet again, given that it's Christmas < 1230236295 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]+ < 1230236925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Break" < 1230237225 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1230237340 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1230238053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1230238055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is strange < 1230238073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a weird wave-like pattern in the build output when building openssl on freebsd < 1230238076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMTF3NA < 1230238080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a conspiracy maybe ;P < 1230238090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually it looks quite cool) < 1230238288 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1230239121 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1230239186 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1230240513 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1230243372 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1230243404 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's nice < 1230243415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1230243431 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system is wow so much faster with the extra 1.5 GB of ram < 1230244101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a grand total of 512MB ram
< 1230244130 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hi 2002 < 1230244139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1230244148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever mention what graphics card I have? < 1230244149 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look crappy there! < 1230244181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nVidia RIVA TNT2 < 1230244228 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahah < 1230244302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They laughed when I told them my computer's specs, but who's laughing now?!?!?!? < 1230244323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They, still. < 1230244323 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me. < 1230244356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, I still want to sound mad < 1230244365 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey fizzie, how do you feel about fungot getting competition in the babbler, random, schizophrenic, crazy bot with tons of stupid features market < 1230244366 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib_ewzho7: the valid judgements for this, if < 1230245224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as I have monopoly in the lucrative "Befunge IRC-bots" market; licenses for those are what's keeping me fed! < 1230245241 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how many have you sold? < 1230245269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|direct: That's confidential information, but I can say that the number has a zero imaginary part. < 1230245285 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know they're all real licences < 1230245337 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was advertising for botte btw) < 1230245694 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng19-0-0-cust700.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1230245807 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"You only need one wheel. Bikers are just greedy." < 1230248893 0 :ais523|direct!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1230248924 0 :mib_ewzho7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1230249536 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-5-244.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric