00:13:22 -!- kwertii has joined. 00:45:00 Heh. Even though I use base64 encoding, I still get over 100x compression: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p523415122.txt :) 01:00:11 What are you compressing? 01:32:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("His brain, perhaps?"). 01:32:28 rgba image data 01:33:09 8 bit per channel 01:33:54 three images, each 288x288x32 bits long 01:37:19 What are they images of? 01:38:24 Analog computer tolerances? 01:43:40 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 01:44:49 Simplest would be to run the script. They are image-components used to generate block-pieces that could be used in a tetris-game or other game with rectalinear blocks. 01:46:08 -!- AnMaster has joined. 02:11:21 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 02:25:35 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 02:37:16 -!- kwertii has joined. 03:12:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:13:24 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 03:14:32 -!- decipher has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 03:14:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:18:09 -!- decipher has joined. 03:19:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 03:19:42 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 04:14:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:35:19 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:35:45 -!- Asztal has joined. 06:00:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:38:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:11:11 -!- olsner has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:21:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:01:59 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:24:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("You only need one wheel. Bikers are just greedy."). 09:47:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:52:52 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:10:09 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 11:40:11 -!- jix has joined. 11:40:17 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:41:03 -!- LolaCaida has joined. 11:41:04 -!- jix has joined. 11:41:35 -!- LolaCaida has left (?). 11:43:41 -!- LolaCL has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:48:34 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:54:21 p-adic analysis <<< i kinda lolled when reading this as p-dantic analysis 11:54:27 that might be a fun subject 11:56:36 "One of my students once asked me what the p-adic norm measures. I told him it measures the p-ness of a rational number." 11:59:56 did he also say "arrrr" 12:00:43 Most probably. 12:00:55 yes very likably 12:01:09 I think one of my favorite quote is "Now that I'm going to have a second prosthetic leg, I could be seven feet tall if I wanted to be." 12:03:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:06:47 -!- jix has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 12:35:55 Bleck. I managed to stay up until about 6... At this point, there's basically little point in me going to sleep. 12:37:01 you could pretend - TO BE A VAMPIRE 12:37:57 Bweheheh. 12:38:14 Well, I *am* a creature of the night. 12:38:33 Especially on weekends, where I typically go to sleep a little bit after sunrise. 12:41:04 -!- jix has joined. 12:59:22 -!- jix has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 13:11:57 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:44:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:45:49 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 14:01:32 -!- zuff has changed nick to ehird. 14:02:06 -!- ehird has changed nick to zuff. 14:34:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:38:20 -!- sebbu has quit ("reboot"). 14:47:33 -!- zuff has changed nick to ehird. 14:47:55 -!- ehird has changed nick to zuff. 14:48:16 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:54:22 Haldo, folk. 14:54:29 hi 14:54:32 hi. 14:54:49 hi 14:54:51 gwættmidda 14:55:01 Sleep is for mere mortals. 14:55:26 I am a mere mortal. 14:55:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:55:43 Therefore, you are denied the joys that come from not sleeping. 14:55:44 I am a mer-mortal 14:56:01 oerjan: Is that kinda like a were-mortal? 14:56:08 except more fishy 14:56:16 pikhq: I've had stupid sleep patterns over the last few days 14:56:29 I slept from 10am to 7pm last Sunday 14:56:36 I've had stupid sleep patterns for the past week. 14:56:37 and not at all Saturday evening 14:56:45 And managed to sleep through most all of my classes. 14:57:08 it was weird, actually; I dreamed that the real life courts were called in to settle a dispute in a Nomic because it became relevant somehow 14:57:09 i still find it hilarious that damien conway of perligata fame came in here instead of ##c by the most unlikely typo ever yesterday (i grepped, he's never been here before) and promptly left when he realised XD 14:57:23 *Conway*? 14:57:34 Yeah. This'un: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway 14:57:43 and TAEB had become a physical robot and was zooming around, someone had given it a high-power welding laser and it was fixing cracks in metal window frames 14:57:56 Not as cool as who I was thinking of. 14:58:04 pikhq: no, not that conway. _that_ would have been impressive. 14:58:05 different Conway 14:58:11 I did say Damian. 14:58:12 :P 14:58:14 but how does someone manage to typo #esoteric rather than ##c? 14:58:16 oerjan: Yeah. 14:58:19 ais523_: :) 14:58:22 ais523_: I have no effing idea. 14:58:25 None at all. 14:58:25 must have been a misclick on a list of IRC channels 14:58:29 that's the only thing I can think of 14:58:35 maybe he /whoised one of us 14:58:36 e isn't exactly close to c 14:58:40 i have a pet theory that psygnisfive is really David Madore. 14:58:43 thought "ah, I want to visit ##c" 14:58:51 ais523_: he asked a question 14:58:51 tried to click on it and hit #esoteric which was next to it in the channel list 14:58:57 so he probably only started an irc client to go there and ask it 14:59:02 he was in no other channels, i checked 14:59:02 er wait 14:59:11 darn i've mixed up the evidence 14:59:34 I think he'd probably find it very amusing that we think of him mostly for Perligata 15:00:09 i asked him where he meant to go in /msg and he said ##c, then I said as a side-note that we like perligata in #esoteric 15:00:13 (his reply was "ok") 15:00:24 (translation: "you're all bonkers") 15:01:01 Hahah. 15:01:13 We are, indeed, bonkers. But that's beside the point. 15:01:28 http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Quantum-Superpositions-1.03/lib/Quantum/Superpositions.pm i actually expected this to exist when I started programming 15:01:31 I always wished I could do: 15:01:36 if (a == (1 || 2 || 3)) 15:01:41 as in, "if a is one of 1, 2, 3" 15:01:49 that's if ($a == any(1,2,3)) with that 15:01:52 that's so original 15:01:55 zuff: i think Icon has something like that 15:02:02 oklopol: i never said it was unique 15:02:03 Unfortunately, I've not been doing much esoteric programming of late... 15:02:07 but it was just so expected 15:02:13 member(a,[1,2,3]) 15:02:20 *member(A,[1,2,3]) 15:02:21 Instead, I've been doing CS homework in a slightly obfuscated style, making graders hate me. 15:02:22 ais523_: that's a bad idiom, though 15:02:31 it doesn't reflect what it actually is saying 15:02:34 zuff: and i never said it wasn't unique! in fact i meant something between sarcasm and not sarcasm that made that somehow relevant. 15:02:44 Python's syntax for that, "a in [1,2,3]" is marginally better in that respect. 15:02:48 But still. 15:02:54 zuff: maybe, I'm actually thinking of that statement as creating the any(1,2,3) though 15:03:03 so you'd say member(Superposition,[1,2,3]) 15:03:09 then on the next line A = Superposition 15:03:15 read the docs :P 15:03:17 except I collapsed it for efficiency and shortness 15:03:34 I don't think you can do that in Python... 15:03:35 oklopol: you meant a superposition, obviously :D 15:03:52 at least, not as in b in [1,2,3]\na = b 15:04:01 ais523_: you can write Quantum::Superposition in Python, almost surely. 15:04:14 because it's impossible to write a snippet of Python without either knowing its context, or oepying 15:04:21 zuff: yes, but that's cheating, you're overloading = 15:04:25 or == 15:04:26 or whatever 15:04:29 ais523_: you write python at 0-indent 15:04:39 that's just organizational structure 15:04:40 sorry, been using single-equals-for-equality langs too much recently 15:04:50 als 15:04:51 also 15:04:56 Quantum::Superpositions overloads == 15:04:57 and stuff 15:05:00 yes, obviously 15:05:05 the Prolog program works without overloads 15:05:13 umm, yes? 15:05:16 IIRC you can overload = in Prolog, doing so would be crazy though 15:05:26 it's quite easy to overload fail by mistake to make it succeed 15:05:39 I've never tried to run a program that does that, though 15:05:43 probably luckily for my sanity 15:09:00 you have sanity? i'm afraid we must kickban you. 15:09:09 * zuff nods. 15:09:10 well, I'm leaving now anyway 15:09:16 YOU CANNOT ESCAPE 15:09:20 but I see your point 15:09:22 -!- ais523_ has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 15:09:26 AGH 15:09:28 :D 15:15:28 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 15:19:52 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TswTenrEwwM 15:31:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:51:04 hi ais523 16:01:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:16:37 zuff: by the way, I just tried to unsubscribe from one of the Wolfram mailing lists 16:16:43 lol 16:16:50 which I don't think I deliberately subscribed to, it was some automatic subscription for some reason 16:17:00 and got "please allow 2 business days for your request to be processed" 16:17:18 hahahahahah 16:17:18 * ais523 wonders why a mailing list would need time to process unsubscription requests, do they do it manually? 16:17:28 probably, just like the mathematica trials 16:17:50 I've maintained a mailing list before now by hand 16:18:00 but unsubscription requests effectively took effect immediately 16:18:07 because I checked for them before sending out messages 16:18:08 [[speaking of which, mathematica 7 has found its way onto the torrent sites, but only the windows version...]] 16:18:12 which was also done by hand 16:18:22 <.< >.> 16:18:49 AND YOU SAY WINDOWS ISN'T GREAT! 16:19:20 my trial version of Mathematica was the Windows version, btw 16:19:32 partly because that was the only OS I had access to at the time 16:19:38 to be honest, I'm not sure I _want_ to try and run mathematica on here 16:19:41 how much memory does it use? 16:19:49 I'll bet more than Photoshop, and damn is that thing slow. 16:19:50 zuff: don't know 16:19:56 it used lots when running something complex 16:20:03 to the point that it was hard to get into the GUI to kill the process 16:20:07 Photoshop consistently uses, like, 200 MB. 16:20:13 (either Mathematica's process-kill GUI, or Windows') 16:29:44 I should write something in Perl. 16:29:51 Just to kill myself. 16:29:59 why? 16:30:07 I don't think there's an ACME::Suicide yet, by the way 16:30:07 Why not? 16:30:19 but I suggest not thinking about Mathematica, your life will seem happier almost instantly 16:30:24 Also, Acme/Suicide.pm is a link to Editor/PerlEmacs.pm. 16:30:57 PerlEmacs? 16:31:24 ais523: That is the result of someone selling their soul to satan in return for a copy of emacs written in perl. 16:31:56 http://guyro.typepad.com/blog/2008/12/google-i.html 16:32:33 [[Only that Google used Python for its robots. ]] <- um, no. 16:34:05 going for a bit 16:59:35 -!- jix has joined. 16:59:39 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:59:59 -!- jix has joined. 17:00:03 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:00:25 -!- jix has joined. 17:03:23 ais523, hello 17:03:29 ais523, see /msg when you get back 17:03:52 AnMaster: his bouncer tells him of private messages. 17:03:58 please don't tell the channel about private messages... 17:07:44 zuff, true, the issue was I wrote them yesterday evening and he haven't noticed them, he doesn't seem to read the stored messages unless you ask him 17:07:52 :/ 17:08:09 he reads mine, maybe he just has nothing to say? 17:08:10 (it was about some errors in the ick manual 17:08:17 ) 17:08:19 zuff, maybe 17:08:20 hm 17:08:27 the highlight in-channel is the same as the highlight from -psyBNC's private message 17:08:29 :P 17:08:55 * zuff watches a car evolve (http://www.wreck.devisland.net/ga/, flash) 17:09:28 Dammit, you're breeding the wrong ones! Stupid evolution! 17:10:01 car evolution? sounds interesting enough to make the complex stuff needed to reach flash 17:10:17 AnMaster: what? I meant it's coded in flash 17:10:30 (disclaimer: if that was a joke, i ignored it because it's the least funny thing ever) 17:10:46 no just a misunderstanding 17:10:55 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:10:56 I just don't have flash on this computer 17:10:58 it's a bunch of polygons :P 17:11:02 but the title was interesting enough 17:11:07 GOOD EVENING NEWS MEDIA 17:11:07 Well, notrly. 17:11:11 that I'll ssh over and X forward 17:11:29 AnMaster: might be a bit resource intensive; unless your ssh connection is really fast :P 17:11:33 it's realtime 17:11:34 hi ais523 17:11:51 C'mon little car 17:11:52 You can do i t 17:12:01 wow interesting 17:12:04 ais523, see /msg 17:12:14 zuff, and gbit lan 17:12:16 works fine 17:12:20 ah. 17:12:35 oh wow 17:12:36 zuff, true, the issue was I wrote them yesterday evening and he haven't noticed them, he doesn't seem to read the stored messages unless you ask him <--- ironically, that's normally true, except I decided to read my PMs just before I noticed you said that 17:12:37 that is a good one 17:12:53 haha 17:12:58 I /playprivatelog, /eraseprivatelog all the time 17:13:03 I should probably put it on startup 17:13:04 oh wait 17:13:07 I know why its not playing back 17:13:15 I haven't got the command in the limechat startup 17:13:16 xP 17:13:20 zuff, it only evolves bad cars? 17:13:29 AnMaster: no, it evolves good ones 17:13:33 but it's frustrating :P 17:13:42 zuff, agreed 17:13:57 YES 17:13:59 YES THAT'S IT 17:14:01 COME ON CAR 17:14:03 YOU CAN 17:14:04 agh 17:14:15 yesssssssssss 17:14:15 it doesn't seem to learn at all 17:14:17 agh 17:14:22 AnMaster: define "learn" 17:14:28 it produces random mutations then breeds the best ones every 20 iterations 17:14:40 not exactly a fast process 17:14:42 but it's improving 17:14:49 zuff, the most successful wins, it seems to generate old ones again very often 17:15:00 probably some parameters need to be tuned 17:15:03 AnMaster: that'll just be because there aren't many really good ones 17:15:03 btw 17:15:14 what is the graph in the upper right part? 17:15:15 remember that it doesn't breed each step 17:15:17 you just get random 20 17:15:19 then it breeds 17:15:21 AnMaster: performance 17:15:31 ideally, it'd be an upwards slope 17:15:37 zuff, the green and black lines? 17:15:45 i think the green = avg performance 17:15:47 and black = best 17:15:50 ah 17:16:01 so the average performance is slightly improving, and the best performance kind of fluctuates wildly 17:16:05 well what are the red circles? the blue are the wheels I understand that 17:16:14 AnMaster: red circles make the car die when they hit the ground 17:16:20 also, stopping the car makes it die 17:16:27 blue circles are wheels, the rest is just connecting lines 17:16:30 which game is this? 17:16:34 ais523: not a game 17:16:35 http://www.wreck.devisland.net/ga/ 17:16:36 it's in flash 17:16:42 it's a car, evolving 17:16:43 AnMaster: all that would become clear if you'd just waited the minute it takes to evolve a car that somewhat works. 17:16:49 grr, it seems to eat a lot of ram? 17:16:53 oklopol: many minutes :P 17:16:57 AnMaster: unsurprising 17:17:04 zuff, OOM killer killed firefox 17:17:08 oh well that was it 17:17:16 the oom killer is batshit insane 17:17:20 the OOM killer is likely sensible in that case 17:17:26 zuff, the system has 256 MB RAM 17:17:27 after all, firefox does use a lot of memory... 17:17:28 ais523: fluke 17:17:29 would be fun to have a game where you competed with evolution in a task like that 17:17:35 AnMaster: 256 MB? ummmmm duh 17:17:39 oklopol: agreed 17:17:43 zuff, yes that system that has firefox + flash 17:17:51 although i'd kick evolution's ass, it's not an efficient procss 17:17:52 ah wait sorry, it is 512 17:17:54 not 256 17:17:57 you see terrain, then have a few minutes to build a vehicle to get to the goal, before your evolution opponent does it 17:18:07 and you could watch it go right next to you 17:18:11 i'd luv that 17:18:17 oklopol, code it then? 17:18:24 http://rogeralsing.com/2008/12/07/genetic-programming-evolution-of-mona-lisa/ evolving mona lisa dna 17:18:30 I've used systems with 256 MB RAM, before 17:18:39 haven't tried to run Firefox on them, though, nor would I if I were paying attention 17:18:42 ais523, it was 512 anyway 17:18:44 but sigh 17:19:49 incidentally, I was reading through a flamewar between two Linux devs on a similar subject 17:19:56 yes, it was on reddit 17:20:01 which was whether to swap things out of memory and use the rest for disk space, or not 17:20:04 as far as i know os x has no oom killer 17:20:06 *disk cache 17:20:22 I wonder if Windows has one, it's quite hard to tell 17:20:25 i'm happy with my system crashing and burning if i try and use more memory than it has, i mean, that's reasonable 17:20:28 just don't do that 17:20:54 well, it's one echo to a proc file to turn off overcommit and therefore the OOM killer 17:21:01 ais523, iirc I read that linux prefering disk cache over userspace data caused issues for youtube's database servers 17:21:04 should be default :P 17:21:08 preferring* 17:21:16 i wonder how much hd space youtube has 17:21:18 probably like 100 TB 17:21:22 zuff, breaks lots of apps 17:21:22 more 17:21:23 actually 17:21:24 like sbcl 17:21:31 1TB is cheap-ass 17:21:35 I bet youtube have like a petabyte 17:21:57 zuff, well these days iirc they use that google stuff since google bought them. 17:21:59 but that was before 17:22:15 ah, probably 17:22:28 googlefs and bigtable and stuff, prolly 17:22:29 in any case it was likely a bit less back then 17:22:40 it's weird to think youtube started in 2005 17:22:42 zuff, yes the same article said they were using that nowdays iirc 17:22:44 it seems way more established 17:22:58 also, I'm gonna genetically generate me some stuffs 17:23:10 like? 17:23:15 dunno. 17:23:23 i'll start off by genetically generating hello world as a string :P 17:23:30 not exactly hard 17:23:35 genetically generated algorithms sounds interesting 17:23:36 zuff: depends on the language 17:23:39 but probably hard 17:23:42 they tried that for Malbolge, and it took ages 17:23:45 if you got nothing like it to start with 17:23:47 AnMaster: not algorithms 17:23:50 even then, the case was wrong when it finished 17:23:52 http://rogeralsing.com/2008/12/07/genetic-programming-evolution-of-mona-lisa/ was just evolving polygons 17:24:01 zuff, well, wouldn't it be possible for algorithms? 17:24:02 ais523: that was generating a hello world program 17:24:11 i'm just going to evolve strings to it :P 17:24:14 oh 17:24:18 also that was on 256MB windows nt machines 17:24:19 and stuff 17:24:21 as it was in 2000 17:24:24 well, generating a hello world program in Text is pretty easy 17:24:28 it'd probably only take a few hours today 17:24:34 I remember reading about someone genetically generating a circuit to do some task 17:24:43 iirc checking freqs of input signal 17:24:48 and generating either on or off 17:24:49 hmm... how many programming languages are self-double-quining? 17:24:51 or something like that 17:25:01 as in, if you feed a program's result to an interpreter, you always get the original program back? 17:25:14 you could do that and still be TC, I think, although not BF-complete as you couldn't produce arbitrary output 17:25:18 mutations: remove random char from string, add random char to random part of string 17:25:20 * zuff does it 17:25:45 zuff, will probably work quite well, but what do you use to define "fitness" 17:25:54 AnMaster: hamming distance? 17:26:02 ah interesting 17:26:19 well 17:26:21 levenshtein 17:26:24 for variable length 17:26:36 you won't always generate the right length? 17:26:37 that mona lisa is not evolution 17:26:45 AnMaster: nope 17:26:47 stochastic hill-climbing search 17:26:48 ok 17:27:09 oklopol: stochastic searches are no fun in the cases where hill-climbing actually works 17:27:24 ais523: what do you mean? 17:27:34 oklopol: well, if there's more than one hill 17:27:38 then you often end up at the wrong one 17:27:46 you can do fun stuff like annealing to get around that problem 17:27:59 err sure, but i still don't understand your point 17:28:14 what do you mean they're no fun 17:28:23 oh 17:28:32 wait no oh, i'm still not sure :) 17:29:30 hee hee this will be such fun 17:30:20 how do you evolve algorithms? It sounds like an interesting idea 17:30:28 not sure how viable it is 17:30:34 AnMaster: tweak parameters for them at random 17:30:36 AnMaster: just like you evolve anything else, but invent a DSL of some sort to represent just your domain 17:30:36 I guess 17:30:40 or what ais523 said :P 17:30:46 hm 17:30:47 although I agree, evolving the whole algorithm is more interesting than just evolving parameters in it 17:30:55 ais523, indeed that was what I meant 17:31:19 zuff, also what is "DSL" in this context, it is not a distro, nor a type of internet connection 17:31:28 domain specific language 17:31:33 ah right 17:31:41 * AnMaster dislikes acronym overloading 17:31:45 i find the whole idea of evolving algorithms stupid 17:31:56 you can't create an algorithm by slowly converging to it 17:32:16 hm 17:32:22 I guess so 17:32:36 what ais523 said is just evolving fudge factors 17:32:54 creating an algorithm is about splitting the task into subtasks, "abstraction", that isn't really what evolution does. 17:33:03 in fact quite the opposite 17:33:51 about to evolve hello world! 17:34:25 well. evolution gets closer than, say, simple mutation, because you can evolve parts of the algorithm separately; the problem is there's no way to do a sensible enough fitness function that would actually let that happen. 17:34:31 oklopol, I remember reading about evolving a circuit... 17:34:43 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:34:43 evolving what about it exactly? 17:35:01 oh, there was a case where someone got a standard combinatorial logic chip 17:35:04 the logical structire? 17:35:07 oklopol, iirc it was like this: 17:35:08 no time-dependent hardware on it at all 17:35:11 *structure 17:35:19 it had programmable connections between all the and and or gates in it 17:35:21 1) random start on a FPGA 17:35:25 2) change randomly 17:35:27 fitness: 17:35:39 and someone decided to evolve an algorithm to tell the difference between a 10 Hz signal and a 1 kHz signal 17:35:55 despite this task being impossible in theory, they managed to evolve an algo that worked 17:35:58 input was a tone, task output +1V if input is 50 Hz 17:36:08 and +2V is it was 70 Hza 17:36:09 Hz* 17:36:16 -!- Slereah- has joined. 17:36:19 don't remember more details than that 17:36:22 iirc it worked 17:36:22 but nobody could figure out how it worked, there were something like 4 components that didn't connect to anything but the circuit stopped working anyway if they were removed 17:36:34 ais523: okay that's effing freky 17:36:34 I *think* I read about it in some popular science book 17:36:36 *freaky 17:36:43 but i can imagine something like that working 17:36:53 it's a continuous problem 17:37:03 you can very clearly see how much wrong it goes 17:37:10 yes, clearly it exploited things about the gates which worked in practice but not in theory 17:37:27 yes. that's very impressive, but doesn't really attack my argument 17:37:51 It's up to 'Hlwo'. 17:37:57 And iterations have slowed to a crawl. 17:38:00 'Hl wo', now. 17:38:01 Iteration 4. 17:38:06 ais523, ah the same one as I said 17:38:08 right 17:38:15 you remembered more detais 17:38:18 details* 17:38:19 I think I may have some optimization to do lest I afll asleep. 17:38:26 Or maybe I should iterate, say, 10 times instead of 100. 17:38:38 Or maybe just get a faster levenshtein 17:38:40 ais523, also iirc those other 4 components worked due to induction 17:38:41 It's slooooooow 17:38:43 iirc 17:38:44 also a hello world might work. but that's only because ehird did the abstraction part by telling it "h" is a subtask of "hello world" 17:38:56 i'm assuming that's the fitness 17:39:00 ais523: 17:39:02 I just linked to that article 17:39:03 :S 17:39:05 Up abov 17:39:05 e 17:39:18 oklopol: fitness is just levenshtein 17:39:36 zuff: you linked to a mona lisa article twice, afaict 17:39:42 ais523: oh 17:40:01 zuff: yes. doesn't change the fact you told it levenshtein is good. my point is in algorithms, the only problem is the abstraction, and evolution doesn't attack that. 17:40:09 agreed 17:40:20 with me or ais523 17:40:23 http://www.cs.nyu.edu/courses/fall08/G22.2965-001/geneticalgex 17:40:27 with oklopol 17:40:31 k 17:40:38 let's read 17:40:49 hmm i'm just going to tell it to avoid non-printables 17:40:53 it's not even interesting to watch it fuck with them 17:41:04 avoid = don't use at all 17:46:33 He,r! 17:46:36 dist 8 17:46:38 iter 4 17:46:52 what's your algo 17:46:56 is it actually evolution 17:47:26 oklopol: get current, 100 random mutations, pick the one with the least levenshtein distance to the target, make that the current one 17:47:28 repeat until equal 17:47:31 so, yes, evolution 17:47:44 mutation = delete random char, or, insert random printable ascii char at random point 17:47:48 starts off with null string 17:49:57 god this levenshtein is so sloooooow 17:50:02 neeed optimized c version 17:50:11 hey AnMaster, write a micro-optimized levenshtein distance function in c 17:50:12 :P 17:50:17 back 17:50:22 zuff, no thanks. 17:50:59 "Heul,r!" 17:51:00 iter 6 17:52:24 zuff, how slow is it? 17:52:31 really fast up to about iter 4-5 17:52:38 zuff, how comes? 17:52:38 at which point it takes up to a minute per iteration 17:52:42 and gets wildly slower each time 17:52:44 strange 17:52:49 AnMaster: levenshtein is a really slow algo, i think 17:52:52 oh I guess it finds no better one? 17:52:55 no 17:52:55 zuff, or? 17:52:57 just levenshtein 17:52:59 runs really slowly 17:53:06 really really really, because it's a naive recursive python impl 17:53:10 for such a short string? 17:53:13 yep 17:53:15 wow 17:53:16 thus why I need to hook into a microoptimized C version 17:54:01 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algorithm_implementation/Strings/Levenshtein_distance 17:54:03 checked that? 17:54:08 yes 17:54:13 i'm using the python version from it 17:54:17 ah 17:54:18 hm 17:54:20 but the emphasis is on the algorithm there 17:54:22 not the implementation 17:54:36 i.e. they're all naive and slooooow 17:54:40 try google? 17:54:43 zuff: that's not evolution. 17:54:54 that's stochastic hill climbing 17:55:02 oklopol: how is it not "evolution"? 17:55:10 it's evolving a string and picking the best one 17:55:22 well. 17:55:32 okay yeah i guess "evolution" doesn't mean anything 17:55:35 but it's not a genetic algorithm 17:55:46 i know 17:55:46 :P 17:55:51 * zuff makes a simpler version 17:55:55 "do one mutation, if it's better, use it" 17:56:17 well. guess it could be called "genetic", if you call asexual ones that... but that's really abusing terminology imo 17:56:34 zuff, what about actually generating the same length every time? And using hamming distance 17:56:42 should be faster 17:56:46 AnMaster: that would be cheating 17:57:03 true, but levenshtein looks quite complex 17:57:09 to implement 17:57:21 if not a: return len(b) 17:57:21 if not b: return len(a) 17:57:23 return min( int(a[0] != b[0]) + levenshtein(a[1:], b[1:]), 1 + levenshtein(a[1:], b), 1 + levenshtein(a, b[1:]) 17:57:26 ) 17:57:28 that's not hard 17:57:30 admittedly it's dogslow 17:57:34 zuff, in any case google to see if there is a better implementation? 17:57:46 i did, the python extension was a 404 18:00:23 So, when is a GA "real"? Hill climbing is a (1+1) selection strategy in GA speak. Even random search can be considered a GA, called (1,1) in GA speak. 18:00:23 GAs are more about the genomes and the mutations than about N > 1 populations. 18:00:26 oklopol: 18:00:29 people who use big words think i'm right 18:04:49 You need to either use dynamic programming, or caching to calculate the levenstein distance. Otherwise you end up with an exponential time complexity. 18:05:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/hurts_my_eyes/ AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH 18:05:28 MizardX: how would caching help? 18:05:58 It eliminates common sub-nodes 18:06:08 MizardX: i mean, what would i cache? 18:06:13 -!- ineiros has quit ("leaving"). 18:06:29 (a,b) -> resulting distance 18:06:45 -!- ineiros has joined. 18:07:15 MizardX: well i guess, i doubt there's that much repetition? 18:09:38 (a,b) -> { (a[1:], b) -> { (a[2:],b), (a[2:],b[1:]), (a[1:],b[1:]) }, (a[1:],b[1:]) -> { (a[2:],b[1:]), (a[2:],b[2:]), (a[1:],b[2:]) }, (a,b[1:]) -> {(a[1:],b[1:]), (a[1:],b[2:]), (a, b[2:])} } 18:10:46 ah true 18:11:00 MizardX: the problem is that lists aren't hashable, so I'm thinkin' there'll be some overhead :P 18:11:35 tuple(L) ? 18:11:41 shush commie 18:12:07 MizardX: btw, b is always hello world 18:12:12 I'm sure I can optimize for that 18:12:12 :P 18:12:26 substrings of "hello world" 18:12:29 well, true 18:12:47 ok, let's try this 18:12:48 You could store it as an integer 18:13:06 IndexError: list index out of range 18:13:09 zuff: what do you mean, lists aren't hashable 18:13:09 wat O.O 18:13:17 ais523: python. 18:13:18 hash(L) -> exception 18:13:21 since they're mutable. 18:13:28 zuff: that's just a failing of the language 18:13:38 we all know you hate python ais523 18:13:40 you can hash it yourself, instead 18:13:55 I mean, just because something isn't easy in a particular language doesn't mean it isn't possible... 18:13:59 but i happen to be more interested than coding this than hearing about how python is awful because of the WHITESPACE 18:14:08 and i know i can 18:14:10 i'm talking about speed here 18:14:17 since, you know, i'm optimizing 18:17:39 my god 18:17:42 http://www.reddit.com/r/hurts_my_eyes/ has broken my eyes 18:17:55 zuff: well, why did you visit a site with a name like that? 18:18:05 it was linked to on reddit :P 18:18:12 it's awful, and i love it 18:18:15 and it's awful and aaaaaaargh my eyes 18:18:29 what's wrong with it? 18:18:40 ais523: turn on css. 18:18:40 :P 18:19:00 and images 18:19:04 then kill yourself 18:19:09 for maximum ouch, use a mouse 18:19:57 * zuff blinks and nothing changes 18:20:05 it has invaded my skull oh god 18:20:07 zuff: I haven't actually visited it 18:20:13 with disclaimers like that, I'd be insane 18:20:29 ais523: it should be okay if you're not epileptic and have eyse made of steel 18:20:30 *eyes 18:20:59 zuff: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p613543526.txt 18:21:34 MizardX: nice 18:21:41 whoa 18:21:42 with a cache 18:21:45 it is so good 18:21:52 admittedly, it got really good then effed it up 18:21:57 but it's hovering 6-7 18:21:58 5 18:22:30 MizardX: gonna install yers 18:22:43 i expect fireworks 18:23:48 hmm... maybe should replace the "return na - x" and "return nb - y" with "ret = na - x" and "ret = nb - y" 18:23:55 yes 18:24:37 less try thissss 18:25:22 MizardX: yours is broken-ass 18:25:27 it selects the null string every time 18:25:53 >>> levenshtein("","hello world") 18:25:53 11 18:26:05 yes, and? 18:26:11 hmmmm 18:26:27 ohh 18:26:33 hmm 18:26:34 no 18:26:47 MizardX: ok, yours fails for lists 18:26:50 does it only work on strings? 18:27:05 I use ['a','b','c'] for easy mutation 18:27:12 wait 18:27:13 >>> levenshtein([1,2,3],[2,3]) 18:27:13 1 18:27:16 i don't have to, neat 18:27:18 but "abc" is ['a','b','c'] 18:27:27 at least in Prolog, that catches me out a lot 18:27:31 different sorts of quotes FTW 18:27:32 not in python. 18:27:33 wait, no 18:27:41 "abc" is [97,98,99]. 18:28:02 strings are lists of one-length strings 18:28:10 umm 18:28:12 MizardX: not in python 18:28:20 that's how they behave 18:28:22 but that's just not true 18:29:16 "abc" is [97,98,99]. 18:29:20 same as in erlang heh 18:29:25 I didn't know that 18:29:32 MizardX: yours definitely behaves differently 18:29:35 'abc' or just abc is the string 18:29:43 presumably that's the same in Erlang too? 18:29:44 MizardX: levenshtein is an operation on more than just lengths you know 18:29:45 ais523, ah that doesn't eixist 18:29:50 ais523, 'abc' is an atom 18:29:52 as is abc 18:29:54 but: 18:29:56 AnMaster: atom = string in Prolog 18:30:02 Abc is a variable but 'Abc' is an atom 18:30:07 yep, same 18:30:13 ais523, atom != string in erlang 18:30:20 barewords are atoms if they start lowercase or variables if they start uppercase 18:30:24 single quotes can atomise anything 18:30:27 MizardX: i'm putting the cache out of the function ofc 18:30:30 to cache future calls 18:30:31 string is a list that happens to contain numbers that are printable 18:30:37 surely that's sane? 18:30:42 also, most punctuation marks and punctuation mark combinations are atoms 18:30:57 ais523, not so in erlang iirc 18:31:17 gprolog's nice enough to give compiler warnings about accidentally redefining things like - or / for that reason 18:31:21 although not fail, apparently 18:31:37 it's so easy to write a :- stuff. fail. rather than a :- stuff, fail. 18:31:40 ais523, examples of such punct mark strings? 18:31:44 and the first redefines fail to be true 18:31:51 AnMaster: you can write, say, 4/6. 18:31:58 that's equivalent to '/'(4,6). 18:32:02 and defines a predicate called / 18:32:08 1> is_atom(/). 18:32:08 * 1: syntax error before: '/' 18:32:18 duh 18:32:20 2> is_atom('/'). 18:32:20 true 18:32:23 the only punctuation mark that has to be quoted to use it as an atom is , 18:32:24 no shit 18:32:35 ais523, so I guess it isn't an atom when free standing in erlang 18:32:54 and tbh, I'm not entirely sure why gprolog needs comma to be quoted 18:33:11 MizardX? 18:33:22 ais523, well I tried some punctuation, none of them are atoms 18:33:32 in fact if I don't quite the atom . isn't even valid inside 18:33:51 hm wtf 18:33:56 that varies between versions 18:34:05 in the last one it seems to be valid but undocumented 18:34:10 oh well 18:34:20 zuff: The cache is only relevant for the exact same strings, so storing it for future calls isn't going to help. 18:34:37 AnMaster: . is handled specially by Prolog, due to being used as part of syntactic sugar 18:34:40 MizardX: Are you sure? The same substrings will be found in later calls. 18:34:46 So they should be cached. 18:34:53 .(a,.(b,c)) = [a,b,c] 18:34:59 MizardX: Since the mutations only change one char. 18:35:02 and . followed by whitespace is an entirely different punctuation mark 18:35:04 ais523, well the docs says . isn't valid in an unquoted atom 18:35:06 So caching them would be _very_ productive. 18:35:13 in fact the only valid non-alphanumeric is _ 18:35:19 as far as I can tell 18:35:28 however it appears . is valid in the middle in some cases 18:35:30 AnMaster: heh, that's a variable not an atom in Prolog, and in Erlang too presumably 18:35:45 ais523, ? well not starting _ 18:35:48 I meant in the middle 18:35:57 6> is_atom(a_b). 18:35:57 true 18:36:08 zuff: Then you would need to use strings as keys, which would slow down the process. The cache would also get very large. 18:36:31 ais523, " also, most punctuation marks and punctuation mark combinations are atoms" 18:36:35 I was just checking that 18:36:37 in erlang 18:36:39 MizardX: The slowdown - would it be slower than your version? I think not. Also, large is okay. 18:36:40 Hm, wait. 18:36:44 no such are atoms when freestanding 18:36:50 My strings do one of two things to the current mutation: 18:36:52 Add a char, or remove a char. 18:36:59 I don't have to calculate the full levenshtein each time, do i? 18:37:14 ais523, anyway one thing I really dislike with erlang is the very very bad utf8 support. it seems to use latin1 18:37:17 I mean, I know the levenshtein of the previous mutation. 18:37:25 So surely I can calculate it for my trivial mutations? 18:37:58 AnMaster: no idea what gprolog does with UTF-8 input, my guess would be store the individual bytes of the input raw 18:38:34 ais523, same for erlang sadly, and then refuse to believe that list happens to be a string 18:39:22 ais523, how do you write a char in prolog? 18:39:25 like '\a' 18:39:27 in C 18:39:28 there is no char type 18:39:41 normally you use either a one-element string '\a' 18:39:44 or a number 1 18:39:47 hm 18:39:48 well, not 1, 7 18:39:51 for a \a 18:39:52 > [$a|"bc"]. 18:39:52 "abc" 18:40:06 $\a doesn't work however *tries to figure out why* 18:40:16 $\n works for newline 18:40:19 and $\t for tab 18:41:16 Hmm. 18:41:22 $\7 works 18:41:31 but then erlang decides it isn't a string 18:41:40 due to non printable 18:41:51 MizardX: Do you agree? 18:42:13 zuff, what if that cause a length change? 18:42:19 AnMaster: Of course it does 18:42:24 zuff: Maybe. I'm trying to test it. 18:42:28 It either increases length by one or decreases by one. 18:42:42 zuff, not just replaces existing char sometimes? 18:42:53 No. 18:42:57 ah right 18:43:02 then I misunderstood you 18:43:03 Replacing an existing character happens if a generation removes a char, then another one adds one. 18:43:09 It's simpler this way. 18:44:58 Hmm. 18:45:02 * zuff considers mechanical turk evolution. 18:45:07 that is, to evolve subjective things. 18:45:33 Just present the turkers with "Which of these (looks better/travels faster/etc)?" 18:45:38 mechanical turk? hm wasn't that some old automaton or something? 18:45:42 don't remember details 18:45:51 AnMaster: That's where the name comes from. 18:45:54 It's an Amazon service. 18:46:01 Basically, menial labor, over the internet. :P 18:46:34 The "turkers" (people who are bored and want a little cash) get to choose a task set by whoever, and then fill it in (e.g. "which of these results is most relevant for the term X" or whatever) 18:46:42 and get moolah from the person/corp setting the task. 18:46:50 (if the response is accepted) 18:47:10 it's got a big turker and task-setter userbase so it's been used a lot recently. 18:47:18 hm 18:47:21 ok 18:47:30 I fail to see why the name is relevant? 18:47:38 AnMaster: the mechanical turk was a hoax: 18:47:43 it was presented as a chess-playing automaton 18:47:45 but someone was inside it 18:47:47 ah ok, didn't remember that 18:48:03 well, the website is a hoax? you don't get your money? 18:48:06 no. 18:48:13 but it lets you do subjective computing 18:48:17 as if it was just regular computing 18:48:19 hm... ok 18:48:26 i.e. it acts just like regular computation, but there's people behind it 18:48:37 https://www.mturk.com:443/ 18:50:09 AnMaster: Some examples of the tasks submitted: https://www.mturk.com/mturk/findhits?match=false 18:50:21 Reward, there, being how much the turkers get for completing one unit of it. 18:51:11 * zuff considers submitting something like "Enter a random number" and doing statistical analysis on it. 18:51:53 the first result seems recursive or something? 18:52:14 AnMaster: What? 18:52:26 Answer a SIMPLE (fact or opinion) based question - quick and easy! 18:52:27 well 18:52:33 what question? 18:52:33 What about it? 18:52:35 it doesn't say? 18:52:37 AnMaster: It depends. 18:52:42 oh 18:52:44 they are groups 18:52:49 not specific questions? 18:52:51 AnMaster: Programmatically generated, yeah. 18:53:08 Probably it's something like a website or something where you can enter a question and get an answer from them. 18:53:11 That sort of thing. maybe. I dunno. 18:53:16 hm 18:53:35 If you're bored, 2c to answer random questions isn't bad. 19:08:27 true 19:10:12 -!- keymakertmp has joined. 19:10:52 if the paintfuck craze isn't over yet, here's a self-interpreter: http://yiap.nfshost.com/programs/paintfuck/pfipf.pf 19:10:57 it can be interesting to watch 19:10:59 for someone 19:11:30 it shows the program it's emulating in 2d grid, just as normal paintfuck interpreters do 19:13:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:13:18 keymakertmp: It's died down but I still like it. 19:13:18 go kveill 19:13:21 Also, wowzers. 19:13:28 what do you mean? 19:13:43 keymakertmp: there isn't that much PF buzz any more but I still like pf 19:13:48 aah 19:13:56 btw, what program is it interpreting 19:14:20 *[[n*e*]n[*]*] 19:14:40 ah 19:14:54 but it can interpret anything 19:14:57 just change the input 19:14:59 keymakertmp: does it wrap? 19:15:17 the grid does, yes. i decided to make it so because all the other interpreters seemed to work that way 19:15:26 the grid size can be changed to 19:15:30 instructions in esowiki 19:15:46 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:15:48 :) 19:19:27 well, i'll get going. if the guy who made the language is around someone let him know about this, hah. when running, remember to have enough grid size in the actual interpreter you're using. i've used pedro gimeno's interpreter which i recommend 19:19:44 -!- keymakertmp has quit. 19:19:47 hm would it be possible to do something like befunge does, so it wraps but nevertheless has an infinite grid? it seems a bit harder since you must predict if it will do an infinite number of moves 19:20:00 (for paintfuck) 19:26:46 painfuck? 19:30:10 oerjan, you mean predict if it will paint forever (then wrap) or just paint a large number and halt? 19:30:17 for a TC program? 19:30:26 sounds impossible in the general case to me 19:32:39 Thought: I would like JavaScript a lot more if "function" was something shorter, like "fun". 19:32:49 return foo.filter(function (a) { a == b }); 19:32:50 vs 19:32:55 return foo.filter(fun (a) { a == b }); 19:33:29 zuff, you obviously want erlang then, it uses "fun" for lambdas :P 19:33:32 Well, you need a return in there too: 19:33:36 return foo.filter(function (a) { return a == b }); 19:33:37 vs 19:33:40 return foo.filter(fun (a) { a == b }); 19:35:02 zuff: Python quickly runs out of memory (800mb+) when using the global cache with a long string. It starts trying to reclaim space and each generation gets really slow. By throwing away the cache after each check it stays at 10-20mb memory usage. 19:35:04 lists:filter(fun(a) -> a =:= b end., foo) 19:35:09 something like that 19:35:21 actually drop that . iirc 19:35:26 posts: function () { 19:35:26 return Post.select(function (p) { return p.author == this }); 19:35:27 } 19:35:31 To be honest, that isn't all that bad. 19:36:44 oh and foo needs to be Foo 19:36:59 and you need a list Foo and so on 19:37:47 Foo = [a,b,c,b,c], B = c, lists:filter(fun(A) -> A =:= B end, Foo). 19:37:48 that works 19:46:47 -!- Corun has joined. 19:47:08 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:48:56 AnMaster: i think i meant only if it moves forever without painting anything permanent. if it paints an infinite amount permanently then it wouldn't be able to fill the memory in finite time anyway. 19:49:20 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:49:21 so sort of like a glider, which should be detectable, i think 19:49:25 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:49:39 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:49:45 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:49:46 oerjan, is that decidable in the general case without running and seeing what happens? 19:50:00 no 19:50:17 but if you run, you should be able to detect repetitions after a while 19:50:28 hm true 19:50:38 the memory would divide into two blocks, one static and one which moves 19:50:54 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:50:59 i am also assuming the moving one doesn't grow, i guess 19:52:32 there are CA implementations that handle memory like that 19:53:15 hashlife? 19:53:36 perhaps, i recall xlife did 19:54:26 hm ok 19:56:14 yeah hashlife looks like that too 19:58:26 well xlife probably uses hashlife 20:00:09 don't know, but it definitely divided memory into regions 20:11:17 -!- olsner has joined. 20:21:23 -!- LinuS has joined. 20:24:57 hmm... how many programming languages are self-double-quining? 20:25:50 you could have a reversible self-modifying language that spit out the final program state at the end... 20:25:52 zuff: They are discussing different syntaxes for lambda-functions for ECMAScript 4. 20:26:08 except with directions reversed 20:26:34 oerjan: clever 20:27:36 for joke languages, i think rot13 counts :D 20:27:36 MizardX: ECMAScript 4 is officially dead, and most of its other changes were awful. 20:29:31 rot13 quine: 20:29:45 hmm, no 20:29:47 I was thinking m 20:30:02 zuff: anything without alphabetic characters 20:30:14 well yeah 20:30:15 :P 20:41:25 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 20:43:23 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:59:46 -!- Slereah- has joined. 21:08:01 http://www.lemonparty.org/ 21:09:59 LinuS: Fuck off. 21:10:10 what's going on here, and why? 21:10:15 ais523: lemonparty is a shock site. 21:10:19 yes, I know 21:10:24 comeon, it's a joke 21:10:25 but why has LinuS posted it for no apparent reason? 21:10:32 ais523: to shock people? 21:10:32 * oerjan didn't. 21:10:39 oerjan: did you visit it by mistake? 21:10:42 LinuS: It's not funny. 21:10:44 Go away. 21:10:52 you don't think it is 21:10:54 i don't think it counts as a mistake 21:10:59 that doesn't mean it isn't 21:11:09 LinuS: Gee, overall consensus seems to be that it isn't. 21:11:21 maybe the UK should block it rather than Wikipedia 21:11:25 I doubt anyone else here would find it funny. 21:11:41 ais523: the UK blocks Wikipedia? 21:11:55 oerjan: just one page on it 21:11:56 well i don't see people finding it that disturbing too 21:12:08 LinuS: Because we're not idiotic enough to click it. 21:12:08 but 6 of the major ISPs are routing all traffic there via a proxy server 21:12:11 If you _must_ have a smug sense of superiority into tricking people into clicking something they don't want, stick to rick astley or something. 21:12:18 ais523: What is the page, by the way? 21:12:35 the weird thing is i _thought_ "maybe this is a rickroll" 21:12:46 lol 21:12:50 zuff: it's linked all over the internet by now, just check any of the major tech news sites 21:12:53 oerjan: Rick astley video, old men orgy. 21:12:55 What's the difference? 21:13:06 i'll tell you a story 21:13:08 Oh, that album cover. 21:13:11 yep 21:13:20 Wonder if I'll get logged if I click. 21:13:26 Eh, who cares! 21:13:29 only that the rick astley video probably wouldn't have made me want to hit LinuS with a _real_ saucepan 21:13:34 the trouble is, ofc, that we have a Qatar problem now, that blocking just 6 people in the UK causes all Brits to be unable to edit Wikipedia 21:13:42 Object not found 21:13:44 Inspiring. 21:13:51 zuff: it's strange really 21:14:01 apparently, one of the ISPs puts a 404 message in the HTML, but a 403 in the header 21:14:02 Fucking UK government. /sigh 21:14:28 there are a huge number of ways around the filter, by the way 21:14:34 Yeah, like Tor. 21:14:36 just think of anything that sounds remotely plausible to work, and it does 21:14:40 you can go a lot simpler than Tor 21:14:51 ais523: Simple proxy? :P 21:14:58 simpler still 21:15:01 But it's the general sentiment of censorship that pisses me off. 21:15:03 I know something way simpler than Tor. 21:15:09 Just go to another computer. 21:15:14 It's foolproof. 21:15:18 Slereah-: Errr. 21:15:19 No ban can follow you. 21:15:22 Slereah-: that would require not being on a major UK ISP 21:15:23 That only works if you're right next to a UK border. 21:15:37 Or, say, you can swim across to france really, really fast. 21:15:40 Are we talking about a countrywide ban? 21:15:45 Yes. 21:15:49 Yeah, that's pretty hard to beat. 21:15:53 no, it isn't 21:15:55 Nationwide censorship. 21:16:06 it would be if it had been done at all competently 21:16:11 Well, not if you're a nerd! 21:16:24 I just use foxyproxy for my trolling needs. 21:17:17 http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/07/1253228 has lots of simple workarounds, but people have found one even simpler 21:17:48 -!- james has joined. 21:17:56 Hi james. 21:18:00 hi 21:18:00 howdy 21:18:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:18:52 james: what brings you here? 21:19:16 Just passing through. :) 21:19:28 :) 21:19:46 JUST ON MY WAY TO PAGE 10 21:22:11 -!- thutubot has joined. 21:22:21 +ul (:aSS):aSS 21:22:22 (:aSS):aSS 21:22:38 +ul (aS(:^)S):^ 21:22:38 (aS(:^)S):^ 21:22:40 i see we have a lot of unsavory content today! 21:22:41 hur hur ur 21:22:43 yay, good to have you back thutubot 21:22:45 *hur. 21:22:55 hey ais523, wanna start optbot while you're at it? :P 21:22:59 zuff: don't know how 21:23:19 $ cd ~ehird/optbot; ruby optbot.rb & 21:23:20 $ disown 21:23:25 disown? 21:23:42 disown detaches a background job from the shell 21:23:44 Shell is no longer responsible for the job. 21:23:48 ah, I use nohup 21:23:50 so that it continues running even when you logout 21:23:56 As do I. 21:24:02 feel free to :P 21:24:08 probably the best idea 21:24:11 I didn't know about nohup 21:24:27 ^bf >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.<]!>,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.<] 21:24:27 >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.<]!> 21:24:36 ^bf >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.>]!>,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.>] 21:24:37 >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.>]!>,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<[<]>[.>]! 21:24:51 ^bf >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]<[<]>[.>]!>,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]<[<]>[.>] 21:24:52 >,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]<[<]>[.>]!>,[.>,]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]<[<]>[.>] 21:24:55 third time lucky 21:25:04 hmm... is that cheating? 21:25:14 yes. 21:25:24 trivial dbfi quine: 21:25:29 well, it's a quine in /something/ 21:25:32 if not BF itself 21:25:32 (read)(print)(print !)(print)!(read)(print)(print !)(print) 21:26:01 hmm... you could get an Easy quine along these lines, probably 21:27:37 >+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]>+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<] 21:27:41 that works, I think 21:27:45 now we nead an Easy interp to test it on 21:27:53 ais523: that's not an easy program 21:28:02 zuff: Easy the lang 21:28:03 that's some input to every easy program 21:28:14 oh, I consider the sample input to /be/ the program 21:28:23 that defeats the point 21:28:32 for your example, easy = bf 21:28:37 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Easy 21:28:42 !bf >+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]>+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<] 21:28:47 !bf >+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]>+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]!a 21:28:53 !bf >+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]>+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]! >+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<]>+[>,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]>-<] 21:28:54 zuff, doesn't work 21:28:58 my example isn't bf = easy 21:29:02 because it takes input from the program itself 21:29:09 ah. 21:29:11 set up so the first half is the program, the second half is input 21:29:23 doesn't jayCampbell have an Easy interp? 21:29:31 prolly 21:31:02 +[->.[,>.]<[<]>[,>]]+[->.[,>.]<[<]>[,>]] 21:31:07 also, Easy's still listed as unimplemented 21:31:18 but it seems MizardX wrote almost exactly the same quine as me 21:31:25 just simpler, because I forgot that the input wasn't itself executed 21:33:19 lol i forgot the car thing running 21:33:28 the cars now get half a screen further \o/ 21:34:00 lo 21:34:01 l 21:37:48 but they've started dying in the beginning. 21:38:02 which isn't a surprise, but it's still funny 21:38:10 oklopol: relink? 21:38:16 http://www.wreck.devisland.net/ga/ 21:40:11 366 generations, 6623.56 seconds to evolve the string "crossover is applied on an individual by simply switching one of its nodes with another node from another individual in the population" :) 21:41:08 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p223433564.txt 21:41:21 MizardX: Stop doing things better than me damnit 21:41:28 ch = random.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ') 21:41:32 Fail. That is so cheating. 21:41:46 Also, that is some slow generationing. 21:42:10 also oklopol 21:42:12 they're time-limited 21:42:18 so if they all get to the same place it's probably over 21:42:29 I've got a very good batch here. 21:42:32 err. 21:42:47 of course they're time-limited, they never die 21:42:52 right 21:42:56 they became balanced in a minute 21:42:57 but are they increasing in speed 21:42:57 or 21:43:03 yes 21:50:06 j is a pretty awesome language 21:50:21 Pffft. C's better. 21:50:21 i especially love the way function composition works 21:50:23 ;) 21:50:36 i don't really like c 21:50:39 :| 21:51:06 That's because you don't know the true *power* involved. 21:51:18 i'd like to see that evolution thing try to make a unicycle 21:51:22 pikhq: yeah sure :P 21:51:51 Ternary operators in ternary operators in ternary operators! 21:52:07 ! 21:52:22 (only when I'm a jerk) 21:52:22 so... 21:52:36 you're saying c owns j at writing expressions that are short but hard to read? 21:52:47 Basically. 21:52:54 :P 21:52:55 pikhq: you are wrong on this, I think 21:52:57 pikhq: you're delusional, or have never seen j 21:52:58 Probably not true, but language bigotry doesn't have to be logical. 21:52:58 and you know j? 21:52:58 :P 21:53:09 j is the son of apl fer chrissakes 21:53:10 Oh, who am I kidding? 21:53:11 except it uses ASCII 21:53:14 and is even crazir 21:53:16 crazier 21:53:24 J is ASCII APL. C got its ass kicked. 21:53:41 yes 21:53:48 * oklopol loves it 21:54:03 ... Unless you do inline assembly by defining char pointers to hand-compiled machine code? 21:54:08 >:D 21:54:21 i mean i have the feeling i won't change python for a language without some kind of objects, but this is definitely something i'm going to learn very goodly. 21:55:01 pikhq: well that's basically interpretation, in which case obfuscation is language-independent. 21:55:24 TAKE THAT 21:55:49 hmm wait 21:55:53 the topic is outdated. 21:56:04 no it's not 21:56:48 hmmmmmm 21:57:05 oklopol: you should code a thing that evolves a car out of primitive things 21:57:10 like, really simple things 21:57:21 something like that would be awesome 21:57:27 a connecting line, a circle (that doesn't roll, ofc) 21:57:28 well 21:57:29 it rolls 21:57:34 but it'd have to come up with its own connections 21:57:40 and yeah. 21:57:42 unfortunately physics engines are quite a mental exercise to get working. 21:57:51 So I've been told. 21:57:52 oklopol: write your own, it doesn't need to be realistic :P 21:58:03 zuff: i've written a lot of those 21:58:12 and i guess i could just use one of those 21:58:18 hmm. 21:58:31 except i guess i've only done stuff with ball vs polygon collisions 21:58:38 (because that's trivial) 21:58:40 you could have like, 21:58:51 plank, of various lengths and widths and stuff 21:58:58 ball 21:58:59 circle 21:59:00 tyre 21:59:12 a hub for connetions, tht makes them bend 21:59:15 (to tie it together) 21:59:19 and stuff 21:59:21 and i'm not comfortable doing collision math i can't derive myself (NIHS) 21:59:24 hmm 21:59:25 and it'd just start out as a mash of stuff that falls aprat 21:59:36 it'd have to go at like 20x speed to that flash one 21:59:41 but it'd evolve its own mechanisms 21:59:46 and add pulleys and gears and cogs 21:59:53 and it'll build a working vehicle 21:59:55 *eventually* 22:00:04 that'd be very neat 22:00:12 * oklopol puts on todo list! 22:00:24 oklopol: then, you add stuff to make weapons with 22:00:29 xD 22:00:31 and make cars SHOOT THE FUCK OUT OF EACH OTHER 22:00:40 CARVOLUTION SHOWDOWN 2009 22:00:40 yeah and sensors of course 22:00:43 yes 22:00:47 so they can become intelligent! :D 22:01:11 well. 22:01:12 oklopol: forget vehicle, make it evolve a robot 22:01:13 :D 22:01:18 it'll move eventually, robots have to 22:01:21 so you get vehicle for free 22:01:46 hmm... 22:02:01 i mean 22:02:02 you can have 22:02:04 so how about just having like an area where bots go around killing each other. 22:02:09 oklopol: well yeah 22:02:14 once it evolves single moving ais 22:02:22 you can put some more materials & fitness logic in 22:02:28 and they can evolve defense and stuff 22:02:34 just pit them against basic flying droids and stuff 22:02:38 then you can pit them against each other 22:02:46 heh. would be pretty neat 22:02:56 oklopol: preferably the fitness function's params would evolve depending on how well it does in practice 22:03:01 oklopol: you should try these techniques on this year's ICFP contest 22:03:03 and maybe you could build your own bots and fight themmmm 22:03:05 i.e. it changes its theoretical fitness function to match how the bot does irl 22:03:19 it'd be totally neato! 22:03:27 zuff: hmm? 22:03:37 oklopol: well i was just rambling :) 22:03:39 i'm not sure what you meant by this fitness function comment 22:03:40 okay 22:03:41 :P 22:03:50 well yeah second order evolution is an interesting concept 22:04:01 but that's a whole another degree of hard 22:04:06 true 22:04:31 especially as i'd want to make it a totally self-sufficient evolution system 22:04:58 (for which i like to use the term "life") 22:05:13 :P 22:05:34 i love this j tutorial, often it doesn't explain the syntax at all, just uses it 22:05:43 what could be impressive would be a reverse evolutionary program 22:05:49 then i use like 10 minutes reverse-engineering how i think it might work 22:05:54 which always stays the same, but seeks out better and better programmers to maintain it 22:05:59 and when i finally get it, i press "advance", and things are explained 22:06:00 :D 22:06:04 and trains up its programmers to become better at maintenence programming 22:06:08 *maintanence 22:06:14 *maintainence 22:06:14 lol 22:06:20 umm, not sure how to spell that particular word 22:06:22 ais523: i think it's called open sourc 22:06:23 e 22:06:24 which is strange for me 22:06:31 maintenance 22:06:32 os x sez maintenance 22:06:35 that's it 22:06:42 how did I manage to mess it up so much? 22:07:31 not sure. 22:07:39 high-maintenance is a very common adjective 22:08:57 oklopol: you know, that ai would be really funny 22:09:00 it'd look ridiculous, probably 22:09:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:09:16 made out of tons of planks and pulleys and extending/unextending arms and sensors poking out from everywhere 22:09:23 and i bet it moves by like rolling around and contracting X 22:09:24 XD 22:10:50 hmm. 22:11:07 do you think it should be side- or top-cam'd? 22:11:30 "view" might be a better term. 22:11:38 oklopol: well 22:11:46 i think that top-cammed would leave more possibilities 22:11:51 i.e. pushing boxes nicely and stuff 22:11:51 but 22:11:56 side-perspective, like the flash car, 22:12:01 is nicer to watch 22:12:05 yes 22:12:29 http://lexlibertas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/i-divided-by-zero.jpg 22:12:35 also, the technicalities of moving around are not very interesting with top-view 22:12:43 unless you still have complex ground 22:12:52 but then you clearly should just do 3d 22:12:56 which i'm not going to do 22:12:58 yeah 22:13:34 because while i've read books about the subject, i somehow think that would turn out to be harder than the actual evolution part. 22:13:46 cuz i haven't actually done that. 22:14:12 so, my point 22:14:28 if it's top-cam'd, i'm not sure whether it's useful to make moving at all complicated. 22:16:20 then again, i'd definitely like the whole program to be somehow completely physical... 22:16:24 hmmhmm. 22:18:58 LinuS: it's going to be a cold day in hell until i click another link by you 22:19:11 I almost clicked, but noticed the person who sent it just in time 22:19:38 oerjan: is that a shock-site too? 22:19:47 how should i know? 22:19:47 I don't know about that one, but it seemed plausible from context 22:19:51 ah, ok 22:20:02 so either it's LinuS messing with us, or a shock-site 22:20:04 not useful either way 22:20:14 * ais523 puts LinuS on ignore 22:20:24 it isn't 22:20:32 it's a boring, unfunny image 22:20:44 I'll /ignore LinuS if he talks again, probably. 22:20:55 isn't that the same as just /ignoring? 22:21:13 ais523: off-by-one error 22:21:47 it's times like these we need graue. 22:22:02 why graue? 22:22:04 why do we need graue in particular? is the wiki down again? 22:22:09 what has LinuS linked in the past that was shocking? 22:22:52 i find that pic pure genius, but whatever, i've been reductio ad hitlerumed 22:23:04 lemonparty, oklopol 22:23:08 it's just a bit old 22:23:16 link lemonparty, i'll take the blame. 22:23:29 or i can just ggl 22:24:08 oh. 22:24:15 LinuS: nonsense! i have never heard that hitler posted shock picture links. 22:24:16 that's... so shocking. 22:24:29 they are not only old, they are also men. 22:24:35 * oklopol can't take it 22:25:09 oerjan: hitler was even banned from WoW and rickrolled a lot of times, check youtube 22:25:18 ah 22:25:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r9dzc0duUw 22:26:01 * oklopol likes boxes 22:27:16 22:25 LinuS: oerjan: hitler was even banned from WoW and rickrolled a lot of times, check youtube 22:27:28 ^ you're not funny and you're annoying 22:28:10 heh, zuff is even more of a bitch than tusho and ehird :P 22:28:32 oklopol: i think there's some kind of evolutionary algorithm at work there 22:28:35 sorry for being such a bitch to the absolute comedy gold of old men having sex and talking about hitler. 22:29:24 don't worry, not everyone can take jokes 22:29:29 it's not your fault 22:30:21 zuff: i don't think LinuS was being very funny either, i just didn't find him annoying 22:30:51 then again i can't be annoyed by anything right now, i'm having j 22:30:52 LinuS: except nobody so far has found anything you've said funny as far as I can tell, and you've been ignored by at least one person already 22:30:57 maybe your imaginary friends laughed. 22:31:07 :D 22:31:43 LinuS: now see, zuff is funny. try something like that 22:32:05 sorry, it's physically impossible for anyone but me to be funny. 22:32:10 i have a monopoly on funny. 22:32:17 oh. 22:32:18 well fuck 22:32:22 it's a shame 22:32:26 oh, you mean start flaming, telling "i have ignored you" and then talking to someone and acting randomly? 22:32:28 i'm considering leasing out funny 22:32:30 guess i can do it 22:32:50 LinuS: out of curiosity, have you ever talked about esolangs in here? 22:33:12 * oklopol hasn't 22:33:19 aha i've ignored you! i can't ready you! i'm leethaxor! i 0wnt you! joo! 22:33:26 can't read* 22:33:45 "question answering by method of trying to mock the asker and failing badly" 22:33:54 it's the future 22:34:27 i accidentally the future 22:34:55 zuff: i am sorry this is clearly a lie. i have a patent on the whole "pun" subfranchise 22:35:05 btw: have you seen ? 22:35:09 oerjan: yes, but your puns aren't funny. 22:35:11 no intersection. 22:35:16 that isn't a shock site, it's one of the world's craziest random number functions 22:35:26 me? talking about esolangs? 22:35:29 the probability distribution, to be precis 22:35:30 oh, no, never. 22:35:31 http://rafb.net/p/J9RrrL70.html 22:35:33 well then that explains it 22:35:34 *precise 22:35:44 oerjan's puns are funny! 22:35:50 LinuS: ah. i remember that one. I pretended to be mildly interested to humour you. 22:36:02 You're a saint, zuff 22:36:05 i'm not sure the ratio is one shocksite link per trivial esolang, though. 22:36:14 nobody told me if it is 22:36:24 "rnz produces such a bizarre distribution that it is hard to tell what the original programmer had in mind. It's quite possible that it was meant to be some distribution with Z in the name, but its construction doesn't seem to suggest one." 22:36:35 yawn 22:36:36 http://www.efukt.com/2339_The_Worst_Sex_Accident_Of_All_Time.html 22:36:41 Just doing my quota. 22:37:05 well what about goatse then? 22:37:21 Slereah-: well, you're Slereah- 22:37:26 ithink we all know not to click your links. 22:37:29 also, you actually talk about interesting stuff. 22:37:37 Do I? 22:37:46 I thought I mostly talked about butts. 22:37:49 ais523: that indeed looks more weird than just stupid 22:37:52 Slereah-: is that a shock site? 22:37:58 ais523: a porn site. 22:38:02 ais523 : Just look at the fucking link 22:38:05 "e fucked", "The worst sex accident of all time" 22:38:06 no, I don't 22:38:08 It's not rocket science. 22:38:12 I tend not to click on links in IRC anyway 22:38:16 I mean, read it 22:38:17 i mean, you can see all kinds of patterns, i've had a lot of "hey, maybe the point is... wait, no"'s 22:38:20 READ WHAT IT SAYS 22:38:26 especially not during a conversation about shock sites 22:38:29 It's quite shocking, yes. 22:38:35 ais523: he meant read the actual link 22:38:39 I don't even follow links zuff gives me, I ask em what's at the other end first 22:38:39 which made it fairly obviou 22:38:39 s 22:38:40 and ok 22:38:58 If you're a brave man, you can also click it 22:39:00 ais523: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI 22:39:13 Heh. 22:39:19 1g1c is not very shocking either 22:39:30 Well, not by trolls standards. 22:39:31 i was like "when does this start?" when i watched it 22:39:41 same 22:40:04 the real of 1g1c is the caption 22:40:11 "If the hero's experience level is 18 or greater, then rne can return numbers greater than 5; but this event has low probability (1/1024 for all experience levels 18 or greater), and to keep this explanation simple it will not be considered." 22:40:15 *piont 22:40:16 *point 22:40:33 yep, rnz could only have been designed by someone who was very tired and didn't realise what they were writing 22:40:43 oklopol: maybe rnz could be some operator for noprob? 22:40:49 it's certainly weird enough, it might make it TC 22:41:03 map probabilities through an rnz-distribution 22:41:04 Heh. 22:41:15 :D 22:42:26 ais523: weirdness doesn't really give tcness... 22:42:39 oklopol: well, know 22:42:41 *no 22:42:45 it's more the simple logical stuff that does it 22:42:48 BUT IT COULD :o 22:43:01 Well, logical stuff, you usually know if it makes something TC 22:43:07 But something weird? 22:43:09 Who knows! 22:43:16 what i want for noprob would be to remove the whole probability thing... and somehow get data structures out of the "dependency graph" 22:43:23 i mean, it's an interesting thought 22:43:40 you have a lot of variables, and they are all linked in different ways through operators 22:43:45 in a large graph 22:44:17 you can't really access the inner nodes, because there are no such operatorsin logic, which is why you can't get data structures 22:44:25 but you can *create* data structures 22:44:31 ok 22:44:37 i promise this one to be funny 22:44:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5z4Vs26-TI&feature=related 22:44:47 no, it isn't a rickroll 22:45:05 so i was thinking maybe you could make primitives that somehow found existing variables that have certain correlations with the variables you're actually holding 22:45:18 but this is all so vague, and it completely nulls everything i had sofar 22:46:23 back 22:47:31 LinuS: heh, that indeed is funny 22:47:46 except for the fucking laugh track 22:51:20 bye 22:51:35 p.s.: 22:51:38 zuff, get a life 22:51:40 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sì, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 22:51:47 oh 22:51:50 my pitiful existance 22:51:50 ruined 22:51:56 ruined, i say 22:52:08 how can my life ever be as exciting and outgoing as mr lemonparty? 22:52:09 oh lodr 22:52:12 oerjan, oklopol, ais523 22:52:14 i can't take it any more 22:52:18 this will be the last you see of me 22:52:19 goodbye 22:52:20 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:52:27 -!- zuff has joined. 22:52:29 err guys 22:52:32 can i borrow some sugar? 22:52:33 oh. ok 22:52:34 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:52:57 -!- zuff has joined. 22:52:58 you sure? 22:53:02 not just a lil bit of sugar? 22:53:03 hmm 22:53:05 help a poor guy out here? 22:53:08 fine. 22:53:10 be that way. 22:53:10 what *kind* of sugar 22:53:13 i'll just go starve. 22:53:13 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:53:14 wait wait 22:53:17 oh dear. 22:53:21 he's such a speed-pants 22:53:27 -!- zuff has joined. 22:53:32 I'll have you know that sugar is very 22:53:34 nutritious 22:53:36 and by depriving 22:53:38 me of it you are 22:53:40 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:54:02 -!- zuff has joined. 22:54:03 i need 22:54:03 oklopol: I suggest brown sugar, because zuff seems to want nutrition 22:54:04 SYUGAR 22:54:07 can't taken it any more 22:54:10 i'm dying 22:54:12 need sugarhruyi 22:54:13 arkwoie 22:54:14 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:54:30 -!- zuff has joined. 22:54:32 hurhigdfkjdf 22:54:34 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:54:49 -!- zuff has joined. 22:54:51 r... 22:54:52 ro.. 22:54:54 ros... 22:54:58 rosebu-u... u 22:54:59 rosebud 22:55:03 uiahsdiaw67&!% ~ 22:55:04 34;ik2lo2ol953 22:55:06 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:55:29 -!- zuff has joined. 22:55:32 wow guys being a ghost is fun 22:55:32 LinuS is missing quite a lesson in internet comedy. 22:55:36 hey can i borrow some sugar? 22:55:43 I thought the whole point of bouncers was to avoid quitjoinspam? 22:55:43 p...please? 22:55:47 i'm... really hungry 22:55:49 need some sugar 22:55:50 even as a ghost 22:55:55 ais523: it's crucial to the act 22:55:55 oh god being a ghost is awful 22:56:01 oklopol: sugar? plz? 22:56:10 begging you hear 22:56:11 but really, we shouldn't be talking out loud in the audience 22:56:12 here 22:56:16 oh 22:56:17 I NEED SOME SUGAR 22:56:20 am i supposed to answer :| 22:56:23 zuff: err 22:56:24 i guess 22:56:25 YES 22:56:27 SUGAR!! NEED 22:56:28 i could think about it? 22:56:28 sdo 22:56:30 i'm 22:56:31 dying 22:56:34 ple 22:56:34 * oklopol hands out 22:56:35 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:56:38 -!- zuff has joined. 22:56:39 too late. 22:56:41 oops slipped on my keyboard 22:56:43 so oklopol 22:56:44 oh cool 22:56:45 how about some sugar 22:56:45 yeah 22:56:47 take some! 22:56:49 * oklopol gives 22:56:51 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:56:54 -!- zuff has joined. 22:56:56 whoops 22:56:58 butterfingers 22:57:00 :| 22:57:04 can i have some of thems sugar oklopol? 22:57:09 let's make them *sugar*fingers 22:57:15 * oklopol gives a large pile of suggah 22:57:26 suggah? 22:57:27 i need sugar 22:57:29 not suggah 22:57:34 plz? 22:57:45 please 22:57:47 i'm starving 22:57:58 :'( 22:58:00 ch--chk 22:58:00 of 22:58:02 sjpdfjasoi 22:58:05 zuff: I tried to DCC you some sugat 22:58:07 *sugar 22:58:08 g-g- 22:58:11 ais523: it failed 22:58:13 g-g-h-sho 22:58:14 gho 22:58:16 ghost... 22:58:18 ghostbud 22:58:19 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:58:25 -!- zuff has joined. 22:58:27 err almost forgot 22:58:28 dskfuY*@Y! 22:58:30 r32iy84324 22:58:30 someone else will have to give zuff the sugar 22:58:32 ```28907*EYHCX 22:58:34 -!- zuff has left (?). 22:59:19 -!- zuff has joined. 22:59:24 wow guys being a metaghost is fun 22:59:29 can i have some metasugar? 22:59:41 [22:59] [DCC] Upload of "sugar.o" to zuff failed. Reason: Timed out. 22:59:42 ~THE END~ 22:59:48 ^ internet comedy gold 22:59:51 yes 22:59:54 i loved that 22:59:55 no, it wasn't 22:59:59 not really that funny 23:00:02 ais523: 2 vs 1 23:00:09 democracy in action 23:00:11 i laughed out loud 23:00:21 there are a huge number of people here who didn't comment that it was funny 23:00:24 i chuckled at my own jokes. 23:00:28 (N.B. I know this is a fallacious argument) 23:00:31 ais523: there is no quorum in #esoteric 23:00:39 however, that doesn't mean its conclusion is wrong! 23:00:54 umm. 23:01:03 what's NB short for? 23:01:05 * ais523 applies ad logicam twice, to create a meta-ad-logicam that proves that if something is the conclusion of a fallacious argument, it is true 23:01:10 oklopol: "by the way" 23:01:10 have to ask, since it's also the j comment. 23:01:19 yes but i mean 23:01:22 it's some latin shit 23:01:23 what's it short for 23:01:24 :P 23:01:27 it's one of those acronyms that only work in Latin 23:01:31 "Nota Bene" 23:01:38 which means "note well", i.e. "note in a good manner" 23:01:38 hmm. 23:01:41 i've actually asked that 23:01:48 and you've answered 23:01:49 ais523: i think it means 23:01:50 note well 23:01:51 as in 23:01:56 note properly and carefully 23:04:12 this car is shit 23:08:11 have to ask, since it's also the j comment. 23:08:20 you mean the actual comment delimiter? 23:08:24 yes 23:08:27 IIRC 23:09:22 Algol had ¢ as one option for a comment delimiter, IIRC 23:09:45 NB. 23:11:03 fac =: 1`(]*$:@<:)@.* NB. i think this is a factorial, but i need to check 23:11:17 well definitely not! 23:11:28 oklopol: that's an ugly fac 23:11:30 it could be a lot shorter 23:12:23 oh. 23:12:27 1:, of course 23:12:29 it looks like a smiley 23:12:33 zuff: could it? 23:12:33 just a very complex one 23:12:51 let's see... 23:12:53 oklopol: surely, i mean, that's shorter in haskell: 23:12:58 fac n = product [1..n] 23:13:01 ais523: a smiley by something out of betelgeuse 23:13:09 hmm */1+i. 23:13:10 * ais523 goes home 23:13:14 well 23:13:31 */@(1:+i.) maybe 23:13:50 zuff: point is that factorial algo can't probably be shorter 23:14:18 and yeah that works 23:14:40 i'm having some trouble getting things right, as the tutorial i'm reading doesn't really formally explain what's happening 23:20:12 zuff: also fac=:! of course :P 23:20:17 lol 23:30:02 hey oklopol 23:30:04 ap[]}ASO)!I_)! 23:30:32 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 23:30:42 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:31:07 lol... dyadic # is overloaded, it's both filter and concatMap . replicate 23:31:42 o.o 23:35:04 -!- Judofyr has quit.