2008-11-01: 00:00:04 ehird: eh? 00:00:14 SimonRC: Nothing. 00:00:23 SimonRC: anyway i don't think you can 00:00:29 ehird: excatly 00:00:50 lol, i just read the logs 00:00:52 so typical 00:01:00 that was the joke I was making. giving the most-general type of that function in Haskell is just as hard as getting vim to do what I was trying to do 00:01:03 "It's a question about vim. 00:01:03 Therefore, try emacs!" 00:01:11 wel, harder actually, as vim has ways round it 00:01:11 ehird: Good, then I don't need to figure out how to pass on that "clarification". 00:01:19 fizzie: "I HOPE YOU DO" 00:01:23 Do you want to betray him? :-( 00:02:24 well, vim's commands are a bit more typeable 00:02:38 * ehird sniffs. Poor AnMaster. 00:02:47 I work with xm,l a lot and it is handy to be able to type f>ct< 00:02:50 and the like 00:02:57 *Completely* unrelated, but what should I do with underload ^def command arguments? Push the whole input string on the initial stack, or split it somehow? 00:02:58 xm,l 00:03:10 fizzie: um 00:03:14 do what ais523 was going to do 00:03:14 ehird: as I said, 3 sec of lag 00:03:19 basically 00:03:24 push it as church numeras 00:03:25 numerals 00:03:27 of the ascii chars 00:03:32 you'll have to figure out how to do a list in underload 00:03:33 have fun. 00:03:55 Hrm. 00:04:18 fizzie: i would say an underload linked list is just: 00:04:36 (tip(tip-1(tip-2 SOME-NIL-SENTINEL))) 00:04:43 SOME-NIL-SENTINEL would have to be detectable somehow 00:04:45 ah! 00:04:46 of course 00:04:47 fizzie: 00:04:51 for the list (a b c) 00:04:57 fizzie, well? 00:05:02 not going to do it I see 00:05:05 *shrug* 00:05:07 AnMaster: He read the logs already. 00:05:10 ok 00:05:13 LOL 00:05:17 did he ask you to pass it on again? 00:05:23 he's so desperate i'll misunderstand him :'( 00:05:51 fizzie: i've figured out a list structure 00:05:52 sec 00:06:05 ^echo I also suggested nano. Just FYI. If I have an issue with a program, and can't solve it, I often try some other program. 00:06:05 I also suggested nano. Just FYI. If I have an issue with a program, and can't solve it, I often try some other program. I also suggested nano. Just FYI. If I have an issue with a program, and can't solve it, ... 00:06:20 lol 00:06:21 ^echo night... 00:06:21 night... night... 00:06:23 AnMaster: stop being a retard. 00:06:28 if you have a problem with a program 00:06:30 you try and solve it. 00:06:33 by asking people 00:06:36 ehird!*@* added to ignore list. 00:06:39 you don't change program. 00:06:42 fizzie, you may want to tell ehird that ^ 00:06:52 * ehird checks logs 00:06:52 and I *don't* read logs 00:06:52 ehird: He ignored you again. 00:06:54 ignored? 00:06:55 lol 00:06:59 fizzie, what do you mean again? 00:06:59 ehird: the anal master is /ignoring you too 00:07:01 ^echo AnMaster two can play the ignore-avoidance game. 00:07:01 AnMaster two can play the ignore-avoidance game. AnMaster two can play the ignore-avoidance game. 00:07:09 AnMaster: Haven't you done it before? I would think so. 00:07:22 In any case, that's about as much message-passing as I care to do. 00:07:26 wait, that *is what your names stands for isn't it? 00:07:28 ^echo Well you did it first, a few weeks ago iirc 00:07:28 Well you did it first, a few weeks ago iirc Well you did it first, a few weeks ago iirc 00:07:34 ^echo shrug 00:07:35 shrug shrug 00:07:36 SimonRC: i think it means annoying master. 00:07:42 ^echo AnMaster - please shut up. 00:07:42 AnMaster - please shut up. AnMaster - please shut up. 00:07:48 ^echo I ignored you for a reason. 00:07:48 I ignored you for a reason. I ignored you for a reason. 00:07:50 -!- fungot has left (?). 00:07:51 anyway 00:07:54 fizzie: list structure 00:07:55 i has it 00:08:01 fizzie, good 00:08:07 ummmmmmm 00:08:09 now I'm heading to bed *yawn* 00:08:10 fizzie: what's dip in underload again 00:08:11 oh 00:08:12 nm 00:09:18 fizzie: 00:09:18 ((a)((b)()(a~*^)~a*^)(a~*^)~a*^) 00:09:20 i think. 00:09:25 that's (a b) 00:09:50 oi fizzie 00:09:58 im helping you :( 00:10:15 Is that worth a ":(" then? 00:10:22 fizzie: just pay attention to me :-P 00:10:23 basically 00:10:47 LIST = (HEAD(TAIL)(a~*^)~a*^) 00:10:51 where TAIL :: LIST 00:10:56 fizzie: or 00:11:00 LIST can also be 00:11:01 () 00:11:10 i think you can use it like this: 00:11:15 (S)LIST^ 00:11:21 fizzie: can i get fungot to test that? 00:11:28 Sure. 00:11:31 -!- fungot has joined. 00:11:43 I'm not in a very Underloady frame of mind today, but I am paying attention, fwiw. 00:11:45 ehird: Would you just let me see your effing bonko code already :P 00:11:51 ^ul (S)((hello)()(a~*^)~a*^)^ 00:11:52 hello 00:12:07 ^ul (S)((hello)((hello)()(a~*^)~a*^)(a~*^)~a*^)^ 00:12:07 hello 00:12:11 fizzie: bugg :( 00:12:15 oh, right 00:12:17 I'm sure you need a : somewhere. 00:13:12 fizzie: 00:13:13 well 00:13:15 it executes the head 00:13:15 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 00:13:18 the issue is dropping up again 00:13:47 fizzie: lets try this: 00:13:52 (HEAD(TAIL)(a~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^) 00:14:04 ^ul (S)((hello)((world()(a~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^))(a~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)^ 00:14:04 hello 00:14:07 fizzie: :( 00:14:42 fizzie: any ideas? 00:15:06 My Underload thinking goes slowly. 00:15:14 ditto 00:15:18 but here is my basic algorithm: 00:15:23 -!- atrapado has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:15:39 you have the program, then the head, then the tail 00:15:41 so 00:15:43 you use dip 00:15:44 -!- atrapado_ has changed nick to atrapado. 00:15:45 so now you have 00:15:47 program, then the head 00:15:49 so now you flip 00:15:53 the head, then the program 00:15:55 and concat 00:15:57 the head the program 00:15:59 then run it 00:16:01 but now you have no program 00:16:03 SO 00:16:05 you have the program, then the head then the tail 00:16:07 dip 00:16:09 the program, head 00:16:11 swap 00:16:13 head, the program 00:16:15 dup 00:16:17 head, the program, the program 00:16:19 dip 00:16:21 head, the program 00:16:23 concat 00:16:25 head the program 00:16:27 run, finish dip 00:16:29 the program 00:16:33 finish dip 00:16:35 the program the fail 00:16:37 *tail 00:16:39 and then run 00:16:41 hmm 00:16:43 nil should actually be (!) 00:16:45 to eliminate the program 00:16:47 fizzie: see my basic algo? 00:16:53 ^ runs func for every element in list 00:18:15 ((hello)((world)(!)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^) 00:18:22 ^ul (S)((hello)((world)(!)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)^ 00:18:22 ...bad insn! 00:18:27 fungot: huh? 00:18:27 ehird: its only " real" programming language? are there significant advantages to that over using fnord fnord 00:18:30 fizzie: 00:18:38 ah wait 00:18:46 ^ul (S)((hello)((world)(!)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^~*^)^ 00:18:46 ...bad insn! 00:18:51 ^ul (S)((hello)((world)(!)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^^)(~:(*^)~a*^)~a*^*^)^ 00:18:51 ...bad insn! 00:18:57 wtfoo 00:19:16 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 00:21:07 I would rather start by using just ((foo)((bar)...)) -style lists instead of "something that evaluates top-of-stack for each element", given how much easier car and cdr sound for that sort of lists. But really, I'm not in an underloady mood. And sure, that sort of list might be trickier to use. 00:21:38 hm. 00:21:40 good point. 00:21:41 but fizzie 00:21:46 how do you check if you've reached the end of the list? 00:21:49 how can you do == ()? :-P 00:22:30 ehird: Would you just let me see your effing bonko code already :P 00:22:38 GregorR: i gave up on it 00:22:38 :D 00:22:48 WELL THEN I GIVE UP ON YOU 00:22:58 GregorR: ...ok :( 00:23:01 Maybe not plain ((foo)((bar)...)) then; maybe something more like (((foo)^)(((bar)^)(!))); but *really*, I don't want to think about Underload now. 00:23:15 Er, ~^ there instead of ^. 00:23:22 fizzie: Oh, that could work. 00:23:24 It's easier to "detect" (!). 00:27:07 ^ul (((foo)~^)(((bar)~^)(()(!))))(~^~(S)~^~:^):^ 00:27:07 foobar 00:27:18 fizzie: Hooray. 00:27:20 Ok, so basically 00:27:33 Make the input one of those lists, with the elements as the underload-church-numearls. 00:27:35 And voila. 00:27:40 :) 00:28:02 That sounds like quite a lot of stack, but... 00:28:55 fizzie: You perhaps thought Underload was lightweight? 00:29:01 fizzie: The alternative is to add a new char - say, @ 00:29:09 Which pushes a church numeral of the next input char on the stack. 00:29:11 Or 0 on EOF. 00:29:22 Well, it does say "underload", it sounds small. 00:30:44 Converting those church numerals back to ASCII for output sounds like something which would pretty fast go over the IRC message length limits. 00:31:45 fizzie: Oh. True. 00:31:53 fizzie: Then you need _two_ new commands. 00:32:03 @ to get a church numeral, $ to output a church numerally-thing as ascii. :\ 00:33:05 I think I'll let ais523 to do the bleeding-edge feature-adding; as far as Underload is concerned, I'm happy to be a follower. 00:33:32 fizzie: underload is abandoned, underlambda is what is being developed, i think. 00:41:22 I have a feeling I need sleep; early morning again, and getting 0145 around here. 00:42:15 'night 00:42:22 -!- M0ny has quit ("Hum... Hum..."). 00:47:48 -!- mbishop has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:48:29 -!- Corun has joined. 00:53:14 outputting church numerals actually wouldn't be too hard 00:53:25 SimonRC: it would you have to store every ascii char 00:53:27 in the program 00:53:28 you just feed increment into them and apply that to zero 00:53:34 lol 00:53:37 SimonRC: in underload? 00:53:43 you couldnt do that. 00:53:49 in underload, code blocks (aka strings) are opaque 00:54:02 I meant as a primitive: output church numeral as ascii char 00:54:05 ah 00:54:07 well duh 00:54:28 -!- atrapado has quit ("quita"). 00:54:31 * SimonRC wonders if automatic-church-numeral-detection is practical 00:54:45 tc 00:55:10 SimonRC: its tc 00:55:22 well, how about common cases then? 00:55:39 sure, but thats not pure. 00:57:18 "pure"? 00:57:24 SimonRC: pure. clean 00:57:27 elegant. 00:57:37 :-S 00:57:46 It might be anice optimisation 00:58:23 underload is the slowest thing evr 01:00:04 bye 01:06:17 * SimonRC goes, leaving you with this question: what character would be best paired with Godot in a slashfic? 01:06:44 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Hrm; I seem to have forgotten the details of gas's constant syntax.. 01:09:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:10:04 >:| 01:21:49 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:22:27 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:28:41 -!- mbishop has joined. 01:41:08 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:54:14 -!- mbishop has quit ("leaving"). 02:30:22 autoScheme can now be run in to generate a This is a test. 23:43:16 abuse hpaste's raw feature 23:43:18 hpaste.org 23:43:30 Due to the ongoing War on Spam, pastes may not contain HTML links. Please remove or obfuscate and try again. (In most browsers, pressing Back will leave the entry space filled in.) 23:43:32 poop fuck 23:43:33 warrie: I wrote the linked stuff at the bottom of http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Redivider ... and now also a redivider -> python compiler 23:43:56 ehird: Just put it in an effing file X-P 23:44:05 jk 23:44:09 *k 23:44:35 Cool. 23:44:37 Hm, the link didn't show as the right color. 23:45:12 This is a test. 23:45:12 too many ;s 23:45:17 GregorR: no 23:45:17 ;a 23:45:19 is what breaks it 23:45:30 just a{} works 23:45:32 Oh, I see. 23:45:45 This is a test. 23:45:48 There we go :P 23:45:49 redivider looks nice 23:46:14 GregorR: or just }a{ 23:46:14 :P 23:46:50 Or just }your MOM{ 23:47:28 gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa iiiii neeeed fooooood 23:48:49 * GregorR feeds nooga a nooga. 23:48:59 omomomomomom 23:51:03 your noms are missing the 'n's 23:51:50 no 23:51:55 m 23:52:01 nomnomnomnom 23:52:19 Your nom chain is missing the initial om 23:52:35 omnomnomnomnom 23:52:40 Good. 23:52:46 burp 23:52:48 moar 23:53:05 * Corun applys moar. 23:53:17 (That's different to "applies", btw) 23:53:42 heh 23:53:48 siesta time 23:54:36 good night 23:54:56 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 2008-11-25: 00:10:15 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/colortry.php?c[]=082E17&c[]=DCEBFD&c[]=46DE87 00:10:36 -!- pgimeno_ has changed nick to pgimeno. 00:11:42 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:13:19 -!- olsner has joined. 00:36:57 I'm writing Variations on the Annoying Nokia Theme 00:37:21 I'm afraid that one is from spanish origin 00:37:43 any pointers on the Variations? 00:38:32 ? 00:40:03 "the Nokia ringtone [...] is based on Trrega's Gran Vals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%A1rrega 00:40:09 "the Nokia ringtone [...] is based on Trrega's Gran Vals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%C3%A1rrega 00:43:35 Heh 00:44:51 Well, mine is jazzy, his probably wasn't :P 00:45:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:04:26 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:34:08 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:39:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:59:11 -!- Corun has changed nick to Krysztafa. 02:08:46 -!- Krysztafa has changed nick to Corun. 02:17:06 -!- Corun has quit ("I got Quithed to DEATH"). 02:25:09 -!- Corun has joined. 02:25:44 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 02:28:37 o 02:29:36 k 02:30:07 howzit goin 02:30:46 i got by beat up by pizza delivery guys, discuss 02:38:46 -!- Slereah has quit. 03:07:37 -!- kt3k has joined. 03:09:02 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:22:36 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 03:38:37 GregorR: there are a few bugs in the current ORK, e.g. cat is doubly broken (both on the program and on the interpreter side) 03:38:50 I meant on the *compiler* side, sorry 03:51:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:55:48 GregorR: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/orkspec.txt - any omissions? 04:58:53 ok guys look at this loser 04:58:55 http://lbrandy.com/blog/2008/11/the-hardest-test-i-ever-gave-c/ 04:59:53 he get's all snarky about paying attention to detail and then: "void main(int)" 04:59:57 his code doesn't even compile 05:09:38 pgimeno: might i suggest using that-relative clauses instead of which-relative clauses? they feel more natural 05:10:05 psygnisfive: example please? 05:10:13 An ape can have a neighbour which is an ape. 05:10:14 becomes 05:10:18 An ape can have a neighbour that is an ape. 05:11:47 psygnisfive: oh sorry, the language is already defined by GregorR, it's just that the specs are not as complete as desirable. That is not a new spec. 05:12:02 ah. well gregorr, same to you. :P 05:13:20 off to bed, I'll read any response after some sleep 05:15:22 -!- kt3k has quit ("CHOCOA"). 05:47:59 bsmntbombdood: it doesn't? i thought c++ lets you skip the names of arguments if you don't use them. 05:48:27 (which is the reason declarations don't have them, they have no body) 05:48:29 oh 05:48:39 well yeah, right, main takes two arguments. 05:49:21 i was basically just assuming you were wrong and finding a reason why ;) 05:56:08 i don't get #5, how is that hard, is there a trick? 05:56:18 This is the solution, y = 3 evaluates to true 05:56:29 *answer 05:57:26 i mean, that's like the first thing each and every c++ tutorial teaches, "=" doesn't check for equality 05:59:14 err, if someone doesn't see the quotation marks in the bonus, they are either blind, or not programmers. 05:59:37 that is a trivial test :| 06:00:32 also i hate that guy already, "this test i made ooohh it's so hard just look at how cool it is" 06:01:13 oklokok: c++ lets you do that? 06:01:28 anyway it's the wrong type 06:01:32 should be char** 06:02:19 you should have seen the programming classes at my highschool 06:02:38 i went to the room to work on a computer one day while they were in class 06:02:40 it was terrible 06:04:34 bsmntbombdood: i'm pretty sure it does. haven't tested though. 06:04:45 well that's dumb 06:04:53 it is? 06:05:21 yes 06:05:27 i think it's mostly for inheritance things, you know, not needing some arg anymore or something 06:05:59 well main returning void is still an error 06:06:40 we have pretty decent c++ exercises, which i actually should start doing right now. 06:07:01 forgot i had to return them today, so fun c++ morning \o/ 06:08:29 bsmntbombdood: i can't say i know main's rules. but i'm pretty sure that's wrong too, although i'm also sure gcc compiles it. 06:08:53 foo.cpp:1: error: ‘::main’ must return ‘int’ 06:08:55 not 06:09:06 yeah okay, makes sense 06:09:11 just assumed he'd have tested. 06:10:20 a really hard test would not ask what the standard says, but what *different implementations* do. i mean, that's what you'll be using in practise, so good to know their quirks for situations where the standard is fuzzy ;) 06:11:11 dubious 06:11:24 also he explains at the bottom that he was not trying to be smug, but just showing what an ass he'd been as a first-time teacher 06:11:44 how's that dubious, mister 06:11:53 teaching to a specific implementation is bad 06:12:39 you'd have to teach the standard and the various implementations, which beginning programming teachers don't have the skill or time to do 06:12:52 err 06:13:01 if you teach them, how's it a hard test 06:13:05 you teach the standard 06:13:22 you mention you ask implementations. 06:13:50 well then you are a bad teacher for not giving your students the resources they need to pass your dumb test 06:14:34 well tbh i was not being all that serious. 06:14:55 i would probably just ask for something that makes sense if i was a teacher 06:15:10 c++ isn't a good language for nitpicking 06:15:14 i hate c++ 06:15:39 i used to love it, then i hated it, now i like it in theory, but probably wouldn't like to program in it. 06:18:34 hmm... 06:18:57 C on the other hand 06:18:59 what if the test was really easy but it was graded backwards? 06:18:59 is fun 06:19:22 or that you didn't get points at all! how about that? is that good hard? 06:19:38 C is okay, i probably wouldn't like programming in it either 06:19:48 -!- Organ_used_homos has joined. 06:19:49 what do you mean "probably"? 06:19:57 I mean probably 06:19:57 what do you like programming in? 06:20:00 -!- Organ_used_homos has changed nick to Slereah. 06:20:08 i'm a pythonist nowadays 06:20:09 And I like programming in Scheme/ 06:20:13 Or python, too 06:20:16 scheme is fun 06:20:22 They both have their advantages 06:20:24 but i just do python. the ide opens fast. 06:20:28 Unlike C. 06:20:36 scheme is fun 06:21:03 scheme is fun in theory, but i've decided i hate sexps. 06:21:19 You hate sex? 06:21:20 they delocalize the code writing process 06:21:26 S-expressions? 06:21:35 -!- Judofyr has quit. 06:21:50 because everything you do requires wrappering in parens, it's simply annoying to write 06:21:56 Slereah: no the other sexp 06:22:05 I don't know what the other is 06:22:24 okay then maybe you shouldn't be in a conversation about scheme you filthy noob? 06:22:31 (it's the first kind of sexp.) 06:23:05 oklokok 06:23:08 psygnisfive 06:23:09 HATE CRIME 06:23:11 hows it goin? 06:23:56 psygnisfive: well i got beat up by pizza delivery guys, been trying to solve this cypher a 7-yo did "for god to decypher", and playing the dotact2 game 06:24:15 you can choose the most interesting one for further questions 06:24:32 wat 06:24:48 was this pizza delivery guy trying to engage in klingon sex with you? 06:26:13 not sure 06:26:17 what's klingon sex like? 06:26:36 Rough. 06:27:15 one headbutted me to the ground, then two of them elbowed me a few times, but that was pretty irrelevant for damage 06:27:23 they did not rape me 06:27:36 Can I rape you? 06:27:54 depends on the exact meaning of "can" 06:28:00 well, not sure it does 06:28:07 but it could, so maybe you should be more specific 06:33:43 darn 06:34:56 rand 06:37:18 A = A >:| 06:38:11 i'm bored 06:40:15 -!- konr has joined. 06:41:07 -!- konr has left (?). 06:45:06 ugh 06:45:13 i hate how people confused common lisp with lisp 06:46:26 who confused? 06:47:02 another channel 06:47:37 you're on quite many channels i've never heard about 06:47:46 that's a lie, i've whoissed you manyfold 06:48:34 not that i'm sure what that means 06:49:55 MODE +i PLEASE 06:50:38 why i 06:51:40 commonlisp is a horrible evil dialect of lisp 06:51:44 scheme for ever! 06:52:35 psygnisfive: yes 06:52:49 seriously. clisp is so ugly D: 06:53:15 #' disagrees with you! 06:53:29 what? 06:53:32 #' is wrong? 06:53:51 ? 06:53:58 have you ever programmed cl? 06:54:05 yes 06:54:10 its so painful :( 06:54:21 #'x is a reader macro for (function x) 06:54:24 part of why cl is ugly 06:54:33 a what? 06:54:37 what the hell does that mean?? 06:54:59 isn't it basically just something that lets you use the function as a value? 06:55:11 or do i misrememberize this all now is that it 06:55:15 why would you need something to allow that? 06:55:17 this is lisp 06:55:21 thats like.. built it 06:55:23 (i have never programmed common lisp) 06:55:27 oklokok: yes, that's the problem. functions should be values by default 06:55:33 bsmntbombdood: yarr 06:55:47 when i first read about that, i was like "wtf, and lisp is supposed to be beautiful?!?" 06:55:55 but then i learned about scheme 06:56:04 scheme is beautiful :D 06:56:10 scheme i've actually programmed in! 06:56:24 ive got quite a large program in scheme right now :o 06:56:58 is it your parser that parses all that is cool? 06:57:05 generator, not parser 06:57:08 but yes 06:59:09 yes i mean your enflammolator 06:59:16 :P 07:01:02 310 lines of code so far. its the longest lisp program ive ever written :O 07:02:07 did you used to have another nick? 07:02:14 me? 07:02:19 occasionally augur 07:02:44 psygnisfive: i think i've written a longer one. 07:02:55 my only real program in scheme 07:03:05 im actually porting this from javascript where i have the prototype version 07:03:20 hey that's insulting to scheme. 07:03:28 but the JS version uses lots of imperative behavior thats hard to do in scheme 07:03:30 whys it insulting? :P 07:04:05 if you wrote it in js first so you could then compile manually to scheme, it's insulting :P 07:04:37 no, i wrote it in JS first because i had a deadline and needed to have a quick and dirty UI 07:04:42 ah 07:04:49 and i had no real idea precisely how i was going to tackle the problem 07:05:15 well, i do admit functional programming often requires you to have a better idea of what you are doing. 07:05:17 it took like like three days to code the JS to get it right 07:05:21 now that i know what the requirements are, translating it into lisp is quite fast 07:05:40 actually it took more than three days, sorry 07:05:42 more like 6 07:05:42 but 07:05:46 lol 07:06:04 i wish i could code something for 6 days :P 07:06:14 well, you need to be passionate :) 07:06:30 i am passionate, but i get some kinda block after a few days. 07:06:31 i mean, im coding the demostration of my thesis project 07:06:32 so 07:06:40 this isnt a 6 day thing here 07:06:50 this whole project is a whole school year 07:06:56 so like 8 months 07:07:05 well if i had a deadline, i'd probably work 24/7. 07:07:09 and a lot of it is pure new research 07:07:21 i have deadlines for a few coding projects, but they are pure crap. 07:07:26 deadlines <3 07:08:40 unless you count what i did as a kid, and some games i've slowly enhanced for ages, oklotalk is probably my longest project. 07:08:59 and it took like 3 days (i could prolly do it in one day now) 07:09:19 as a kid i could work on a project for like a month 07:09:23 i haven't programmed for like 6 months 07:09:43 nowadays i can get the same results in a few hours, the problem is that's pretty much as far as my patience allows me to go 07:09:56 bsmntbombdood: then what have you been doing? 07:10:01 nothing :( 07:10:18 that's what happens when you stop schoolz 07:10:28 i hope you're proud of yourself 07:10:30 oklofok: are you doing any research tho? 07:10:32 no it started before i dropped out 07:11:36 psygnisfive: about oklotalk? well i guess you could say i did before implementing it, making sure i knew what i was doing, but that was just a highschool project 07:11:40 i mean in general. 07:12:11 i started at the uni like two and a half months ago, i'm learning the basics atm. 07:12:37 == no. 07:13:19 bsmntbombdood: i was in the same situation, then i started university, and now i'm filled with energy, doing all kinds of small projects all the time. 07:13:31 university is awesome 07:13:44 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 07:13:49 ha yeah right 07:13:54 :) 07:13:55 that's what the told me about high school 07:14:00 well, doing research will give you a nice long project or two to work on 07:14:01 yeah, me too 07:14:05 and that was bullshit 07:14:31 high school was a waste of time, i could just as well have sat in a dark room for three years 07:15:11 psygnisfive: yes, i believe that. a thesis would be the kind of deadline that would get me working. 07:15:42 also now i'm stuck at irc because i have to stand up and go get me something to drink, and i don't feel like moving. 07:15:52 please be quiet for a while so i can't do it. 07:16:17 or "can", depending what "it" referred to, there 07:16:28 hmm i need something to drink 07:16:35 oklopol, whats your major?? 07:16:48 i have no idea really, my english, and my overall speakingious capacities seem to be getting worser all the times 07:16:50 psygnisfive: cs 07:16:56 computer sex 07:17:00 *science 07:17:02 what do you want to research in cs? 07:17:15 psygnisfive: so many things i'm glad i don't have to choose right now. 07:17:30 well list a few of them :p 07:17:40 but probably combining logic programming and OO with ai. 07:17:52 hmm 07:17:54 AI is fun 07:17:59 i havent touched any of it, really, but i want to 07:18:39 im already working on a computational generative syntax, and presumably i'm also going to work on a parser for it as well, i guess 07:19:06 and having a language-to-semantics system would be useful for doing AI i think 07:20:19 language is fun too, even natural language, also digital logic, games, anything involving algorithms really... 07:21:30 well, if you really od find NLP/CompLing stuff interesting, I can tell you as much as I can dredge up about the topic 07:21:38 well i'm mostly thinking combining the imperative kinda OO with an AI so you can do prolog-style search (but preferably more structured and intelligentt) for parts you don't have any kinda explicit optimization or good ideas for. 07:21:43 *intelligent 07:23:14 psygnisfive: you could teach me phonetics at some point...... .... ........ .. .... 07:23:44 i could. to be honest, phonetics really needs physical presence so you can hear the sounds. 07:23:48 that's just for fun / general wanting not to suck of course, i'm not really especially interested in phonetics 07:24:04 phonetics isnt interesting 07:24:12 indeed it isn't. 07:24:12 sucking at phonetics is like sucking at spelling 07:24:18 yes 07:24:29 which is to say, it doesn't matter unless you care about spelling. 07:24:30 :P 07:24:37 right 07:24:41 i mean, if you want to do speech recognition/synthesis its important 07:24:47 but otherwise its irrelevant 07:24:53 well i prefer to take that as "you gotta know it, but it's not really that cool if you do" 07:25:19 actually you dont have to know it in order to do theoretical linguistics 07:25:36 psygnisfive: no, but you have to know it in order¨¨¨¨. 07:25:39 ... 07:25:41 lol 07:25:46 i'm just gonna leave it like that. 07:25:59 lolwut 07:26:00 anyway 07:26:13 ill teach you some syntax in the future if you want 07:27:54 you don't need to know phonetics for doing theoretical linguistics, but you do need it so you can learn a new language without having to wonder if you're even getting the basic structure of the sounds right. 07:28:07 and sure, i'd love to know more about syntax. 07:28:39 good. ill teach you some in the future. how about tomorrow or wednesday? 07:28:46 by tomorrow i mean 24 hours from now 07:29:03 not that i want to learn that many languages, i just feel retarded for not having the abilitiez. 07:29:20 * psygnisfive shrugs 07:29:26 syntax is cooler 07:29:31 than any individual language 07:29:31 oh dear, trying to allocate some actual time ;) 07:29:32 :P 07:29:43 gets much scarier than just talking about somewhere in the future 07:30:03 just be online this time tomorrow 07:30:50 psygnisfive: yes, but these are entirely different kinds of wanting to learn. there are things i want to know because they're practically useful (like learning to punch pizza delivery niggas), and there are things i want to know because they are conceptually pure and sexy 07:31:22 as a finn, i deplore you, never use "niggas". it just sounds wrong coming from your fingers. 07:31:43 how's that? 07:31:49 you're.. finnish 07:32:07 no non-american should use that term 07:32:31 it's like a non-french saying merde 07:32:35 they aren't actually negros, i don't know the term for that race, except the finnish ...derogatory term. 07:32:46 i've heard many finns say merde 07:32:51 yes, but even so 07:32:54 never say "niggas" 07:32:56 it just sounds weird 07:33:01 :) 07:33:17 i can try not to confuse you with it 07:33:27 you can't use it correctly 07:33:47 what's wrong about "pizza delivery niggas" 07:33:58 nothing i say 07:34:02 right i be. 07:34:08 there's so much baggage around it that appropriate comic use relies heavily on stuff that you, as a finn, cannot replicate 07:34:22 ...comic use? 07:34:27 you aint right, son, don't even think you are 07:34:34 oh, that's what you meant 07:34:54 i'm not a native speaker, so i can't learn to use it so that it's okay to say it? 07:35:04 and use of "niggas" non-comically is incredibly inappropriate 07:35:36 you're a finn. you're going to have a serious accent and distinctly finnish styles to your speech :P 07:35:37 psygnisfive: if you think i give a shit about that, you may confuse me with someone who cares about stuff like that. 07:35:47 hahaha 07:35:54 well i wouldn't use that irl. 07:36:14 and i wouldn't use it if i knew someone here would get mad, if they were active. 07:36:29 you shouldn't use it online either. the english speakers who use "niggas" as a general substitute for "guys" or similar are almost universally very low class 07:36:33 possibly even white trash 07:36:35 but if a word is inappropriate, and i don't see a reason why it should be, i use it just out of spite. 07:36:47 psygnisfive: yes, i know that 07:36:54 and you're not white trash 07:37:03 hence its unbefitting you 07:37:12 how do you know i'm not white trash? 07:37:15 ! 07:37:23 you're finnish. 07:37:30 * oklopol is *manyfold* in things he is 07:37:33 finns can't be white trash 07:37:39 :< 07:37:43 only americans and canadians can be white trash 07:38:04 well then maybe i'm white trash born in a clean whiter's body :'< 07:38:24 brits can be chavs 07:38:28 and finns are just finns. 07:39:11 don't worry, i don't even know what white trash means 07:39:27 low-class whites 07:39:33 well right 07:39:38 but not just low-class 07:39:40 then i guess i knew it, but my point 07:39:43 like 07:39:53 was something 07:39:55 that i forgot. 07:40:08 -!- olsner has joined. 07:40:12 stupid, socially reprehensible, often assholish uncouth and disgusting white people 07:40:31 well i guess that doesn't describe me 07:40:56 the kind of person who wears white wife beaters, is thin but insists on growing a scraggly patchy beard or, even worse, mustache in order to prove his manliness 07:41:20 i would probably like to get a beard. 07:41:40 yes but you could probably grow a proper bear and it'd look appropriate on you 07:41:54 except prolly not for manliness, more for looking bohemian-ish 07:41:58 whereas lithe guys with patchy shitty beards look stupid 07:42:41 i don't really give a shit about gender, so i don't really aspire for manliness 07:43:37 that's why i have trouble seeing why people do sex changes, if i woke up one day with a woman-hole, i don't think my life would change at all (except, well, i might get famous) 07:44:14 people get sex change ops because they feel uncomfortable in their body, not because they have something against it. 07:44:45 well, i wouldn't feel uncomfortable in a different body, unless i was simply objectively less abled. 07:44:45 but that's a very cognitive/psychological/neurological thing thats more complicated than just that. 07:44:52 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 07:44:53 neither would i 07:44:57 -!- GregorR has joined. 07:44:58 yeah, that's what they all say 07:45:03 speaking of you not caring about gender 07:45:07 i don't buy that, because i don't feel it's my case. 07:45:21 so we're getting married 0.4 of a marriage ey? 07:45:22 where did this conversation come from 07:45:31 bsmntbombdood: does it matter? 07:45:33 bsmntbombdood: out of me 07:45:40 but indeed, it doesn't matter 07:45:53 its only purpose is to distract me from doing my c++'s 07:46:08 what do you have to do in c++? 07:46:12 psygnisfive: hmm. i didn't agree to 0.4. 07:46:20 what number was it again? 07:46:25 0.2? 0.3? 07:46:28 something ike that right? 07:46:56 bsmntbombdood: simply stuff. five exercises, i'm in the third one, it's a simple dispatching thingie about what the "call most specific function" thingie means in c++. 07:47:27 it's also a pretty stupid exercise, the rest are much better 07:47:57 psygnisfive: yes it's not infitesimally small. i'm not sure what i was thinking :o 07:48:10 awesome 07:48:15 * psygnisfive kisses oklopol 07:48:17 so 07:48:19 okay now i really need to go 07:48:19 tomorrow this time 07:48:21 syntax 07:48:24 im off to 07:48:27 too* 07:48:31 ugh, you need like 0.3 to kiss me, mister no-no-pants. 07:48:31 night oklopol 07:48:31 <3 07:48:35 night. 07:48:42 oh pleas, ive got 0.3 07:48:45 ive got 1.0! 07:48:49 dont deny it 07:49:08 i'm not denying or nying anything 07:49:16 ;) 07:49:18 night 07:49:22 night. 07:49:28 or, well, early morning. 07:49:31 :p 07:49:49 --> 07:52:13 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 07:52:50 * GregorR made a new generation of color matcher. 07:53:39 so basically you wanted to see them having some more of that sexual sex, and made them produce one whole generation of offspring in one night? 07:53:50 you're a sick, sick man 07:53:55 * oklopol is gone 07:53:56 Different meanings of the term "generation" 07:54:01 I /generated/ a neural network. 07:54:07 yes, my joke kinda relied on that 07:54:09 In fact, that involves 10000 generations of evolution. 07:54:24 hmm 07:54:26 Which is to say, some millions of sexual encounters. 07:54:31 i see, i see... 07:54:32 Between complete strangers. 07:54:36 Which happen to be neural networks. 07:54:47 so what you're saying is you're much, much sicker than i never even imagined? 07:54:52 YES! 07:55:13 oh dear... i should've just gone when i had the chance. 07:57:00 (*ever) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:51 You should maybe be producing some neural network porn tapes; I'm sure there's a market for that sort of stuff. 08:02:11 i'm dumb :( 08:42:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:46:54 I'm writing Variations on the Annoying Nokia Theme 08:47:16 as a fugue? 08:52:41 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:30:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 09:42:46 -!- Corun has joined. 09:48:13 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:02:03 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 11:18:31 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:18:32 -!- AnMaster has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:18:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 11:18:55 -!- AnMaster has joined. 11:26:12 -!- nooga has joined. 11:29:22 fizzie: neural network porn tapes? :D 11:29:30 how would that look like? 11:37:21 I don't know. Naked coefficients? Smooth curves in the activation functions? 11:37:30 Just a thought, really. 11:39:13 fizzie: context? 11:40:36 ais523: GregorR has been making his neural networks have sex again. I just suggested something to profit from it. 11:40:41 fizzie: Did you check the xkcd thread about the "I call rule 34 of Wolfram's rule 34"-thing? 11:41:10 ineiros: No, I just wondered about it. 11:41:16 ineiros: Are the images work-safe? :) 11:41:26 At least some of them. An example: http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=8730 11:41:48 Heh. 11:55:33 Wolfram's rule 34 is unfortunately boring 11:55:55 yes 11:56:38 34 = 0b00100010, which would imply that 101 and 010 produce 1 as output, other patterns produce 0 11:56:50 so you're just going to get a load of vertical black stripes separated by at least 2 white stripes 11:56:53 and no interesting result 11:57:09 essentially 01 travels one step left per step, everything else is zeroed 11:57:29 no, it's centered isn't it? 11:57:32 or have I misread the number? 11:58:05 001 not 010 11:58:20 ah, yes 11:58:32 agreed, you'll get diagonal stripes from black with white to its left 11:58:58 That just means it's a bit more of a challenge to apply the other rule 34 on it, nothing more. 11:59:06 heh 11:59:32 at least one version of the rules of the Internet I've seen have rule 35 as stating that deliberate attempts to invoke rule 24 fail 11:59:35 *34 12:00:03 that's just stolen from Godwin's law i bet :D 12:00:28 probably 12:00:39 although I've deliberately invoked Godwin's law before, and it worked 12:02:53 * oerjan checks rule 35 in MCell 12:04:39 slightly more interesting. seems to settle into a period 2 12:05:11 but uses a fair number of generations to do so 12:06:37 seems like there is a possible glider, but it tends to die out 12:06:42 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ElementaryCellularAutomaton.html doesn't have an utterly interesting picture of rule 35, but it sure beats 34. 12:08:06 it only shows evolutions starting with a single black pixel though 12:09:36 bah 12:09:53 i was doing 37 instead. darn hex input 12:10:07 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:10:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:11:08 oh that's actually twice as interesting 12:11:26 single pixels travelling left, longer blocks travelling right 12:12:03 or wait, it's an optical illusion of sorts 12:12:25 actually everything travels 1 right in 2 12:12:57 oerjan: not quite, surely? 12:13:04 alternating black and white wouldn't do that 12:13:32 35? 12:14:16 well there seem to be some initial exceptions that die out there too 12:15:49 yes, there is also a stationary (0 in 2) checkerboard pattern 12:15:56 -!- Organ_used_homos has joined. 12:16:00 -!- Organ_used_homos has changed nick to Slereah. 12:32:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:38:21 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/bug_finder_92913.html 14:39:05 I'd totally pay one of the $300 ones to see what happens 14:39:17 surely it isn't worth that much? 14:39:18 LOL the last bidder is "BusyBeaver" 14:39:21 how i ronic 14:39:33 ais523: oh it would be 14:39:42 "You may not start working in this and any project before your bid is accepted. Any user who violates this policy may have their account permanently suspended." 14:39:51 what a strange restriction! 14:40:21 most of them seem to be people replying to every project with boilerplate without reading it 14:40:35 the sad thing is, a /practical/ infinite loop detector is quite possible 14:40:39 it won't work on every program, obviously 14:40:45 but will catch many stupid logic errors 14:40:48 might be interesting 14:40:50 ais523: Congrats you got the joke! 14:40:50 Also 14:40:51 Been done 14:40:57 I thought it would have done 14:41:07 by microsoft 14:41:21 http://research.microsoft.com/Terminator/ 14:41:52 (getacoder.com is codeword for indian-spammers-that-cannot-code-dot-com) 14:43:57 Can I post contact information? 14:43:59 Allowing the direct contact between buyers and sellers other than through the message boards could allow members to bypass the GetACoder system and in turn avoid the commission fees. Our charges are a fair price to bring software buyers and coders together. We do not allow the exchange of contact information. 14:44:18 that website, as far as I can tell, is a way for people to make nonbinding agreements with each other whilst paying the website lots of money 14:44:26 all getacoder-alikes are shams 14:44:32 you are stating the blindly obvious 14:44:41 not blindly obvious to everyone there 14:44:47 no, it is 14:44:50 because they're all scammers 14:44:54 ah, ok 14:44:55 on both sides? 14:44:58 and the person who posted that question is joking 14:45:02 see: the last line 14:45:04 that might be fun to watch, actually 14:45:06 which states the halting problem -exactly- 14:45:12 also, the only other posters there are idiots 14:45:21 e.g. someone wanted an OS better than windows that was also compatible with windows 14:45:22 in a week 14:45:24 for a few thousand 14:47:01 "Herr T, Despite the fact that I died in 1918 you may find the following advice important. I would be happy to work on your project but you will quickly find that it is impossible, nay undecidable." 14:47:19 haha, was that posted? 14:47:23 yes 14:47:33 by someone with the nick "GeorgeCantor" 14:47:42 brilliant 14:47:47 although he was trolled. 14:47:48 There's also KurtG. 14:47:51 by the submitter. 14:48:05 the submitter is AlanT 14:48:08 another obvious clue 14:48:11 exactly 14:48:16 To state that another way, given a function f and input x, determine if f(x) will halt. 14:48:20 that pretty much gives it away 14:48:23 even without AlanT 14:48:30 what do the non-troll posts there look like, I wonder? 14:48:31 because 14:48:37 ais523: i told you 14:48:41 that fits my definition of trolling pretty well, but it's clever and funny trolling 14:48:53 an art which I feared was lost to the Internet 14:49:02 "I want OS called Blue Orb os. it must be compatible with windows Xp and Linux and also loko like OSX. Pls be responding quickly" 14:49:27 I would find it so funny if someone told them to just get OS X + Parallels, and rename it 14:49:42 :D 14:49:47 or: 14:49:53 OS X, and specify a method for porting applications 14:50:10 or: Linux, with WINE, and an OS X copy skin 14:50:16 for $3,000 14:50:34 arguably Linux + WINE isn't fully compatible with Windows XP 14:50:38 sssssh 14:50:39 nor windows Xp for that matter 14:50:45 the caps probably make a difference 14:51:05 ais523: typical getacoder: 14:51:12 i need to build up very good reverse auction website. 14:51:12 the reverse auction script has to be with no bugs and it have to be customized for all my necessities. 14:51:12 Well, it didn't say *fully* compatible. 14:51:15 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/reverse_auction_website_93182.html 14:51:25 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/api_voip_93170.html 14:51:29 to use the API provided by the following URL to create a voip service (click to call) SIP 14:51:29 and sms services 14:51:38 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/customize_existing_vb_gpl_89636.html 14:51:40 Description 14:51:41 We need to modify an existing GPL item to meet our specifications of an simple interface. This is an open source item. It is written in Visual Basic 6. The code is published under the GNU GPL. We do not wish to resell the code or remove any of the copyright notices. Our finished product will have the same open source notices and we will respect and show the same the copyright notices as the original. We like the existing product; it is just rough in appearance 14:51:46 someone should post a project to make an exact replica of getacoder.com 14:51:51 complete with stupid Terms of Use 14:52:37 :D 14:53:02 $100-300 is a nice prize for resizing an image. 14:53:04 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/resizing_images_graphics_93117.html 14:53:09 Price, I mean. 14:53:25 Resize this image and win $-200 14:53:28 sign me up! 14:53:39 ais523: lol 14:53:54 Dear Sir, We are top ranked web Development Company from India having vast set of experience in development and designing of complex solutions. We have well trained and experienced developers and programmers specialized in different technologies. Please find the details with PMB along with Project execution plan. Thank you, Tech-Sters.. 14:53:56 web design? 14:54:01 :D 14:54:16 We develop applications on the following platforms: Windows, UNIX, NT Server. 14:54:20 wat 14:54:41 "I need a wikipedia clone with contents and menus the same as Wikipedia. You will have to download the english wikipedia article database, create the website with all contents installed and similiar to wikipedia." 14:55:01 haha: http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Intercal-Programmer-jobs.asp 14:55:20 yeah 14:55:24 they scraped google, it seems 14:55:34 "Boost your Intercal Programmer job prospects by enhancing your resume with an ExpertRating Online Certification. Since there are a lot of Intercal Programmer job seekers, extra credentials count. After passing your ExpertRating test, you will get an online transcript as well as a hard copy certificate mailed to you as proof of your Intercal Programmer skills" 14:55:38 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/adult_video_site_93136.html 14:55:39 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/wikipedia_clone_contents_93101.html obviously wants to open an "with ads" version of wikipedia. 14:55:41 I need an EXACT CLONE of pornhub.com, not a cheap looking joomla version or any other kind. I am looking for PROFESSIONALS ONLY, no amateurs! Also there will not be explanation in detail, I will give you my ideas, I will help in any way possible, but you will be responsible for looking up the smaller details – it is NOT hard, just go look at the site and do it, this does not require a detailed explanation if you already have everything given. 14:56:05 under Features: "web 2.0" 14:56:08 "Hack proof" 14:56:33 http://kottke.org/04/07/my-new-policy 14:56:37 we have a policy that we are hack proof 14:57:34 actually, legal means are better than technical means to prevent certain forms of hacking 14:57:44 ot 14:57:45 it's not 14:57:53 "we have a policy that you must not hack us" 14:57:57 like copying closed-source programs, DRM nearly always gets cracked more or less straight away, but copyright still applies 14:58:00 it is, "we have a policy that we are not being hacked" 14:58:10 ISTTIOPTII 14:58:12 haha, sounds like a Nomic legal fition 14:58:16 *fiction 14:58:18 I Say That Is Our Policy Therefore It Is 14:58:21 "I say we aren't, therefore we aren't" 14:58:43 "You have this security hole." "No, we have a policy that we don't have security holes." 14:58:59 "You're bankrupt." "No, we have a policy that we will never be bankrupt." 14:59:00 "But you do!" "No, sorry, policy." 14:59:15 "You are dead." "Tell that to my policy." 14:59:42 i love how everyone ignores the bid amounts 14:59:50 $20-100? I'll put in a bid for $1,000! 15:06:30 Lots of "clone this website for me" requests. 15:09:15 who wants to tell me the dotaction 1-100 koed 15:09:22 ? 15:09:36 ais523: a game me, fizzie and oklopol have been playing for the last few days 15:09:39 it's awful and it's addictive. 15:09:50 an online game, or an in-channel talk game? 15:09:56 online; it's flash 15:10:08 well, there were other options but those two seemed the most likely to me 15:10:15 [2008-11-23 15:12:06] < fizzie> Since ehird probably wants them codes, 086-754 gives the 1 15:10:18 01-108 list, while 809-936 gives the 1-100 list. 15:10:22 Write those down already. 15:10:29 thankees 15:10:32 and maybe 15:10:32 :D 15:10:42 and I'm probably immune to that particular problem due to not having Flash nor wanting it 15:10:50 I think it was something like the fourth time you asked. :p 15:10:59 Away for some grocery-shopping and such now, anyway. 15:11:08 ais523: it's a time-trially sort of game anyway 15:11:34 it's not that simulate-a-runner-by-moving-the-individual-joints game, is it? 15:11:41 nah. 15:11:55 there's a bunch of dots and you have to collect them all before the time runs out by jumping around. 15:12:07 and there's electric fences. and water. and dots that make you immune to fences. and mazes. and ... 15:12:48 i think i'll have another stab at nethack after this. 15:13:22 "still creating bottle 99 several days later" 15:13:30 do we have a new record for slowest esolang interp? 15:17:39 at least one version of the rules of the Internet I've seen have rule 35 as stating that deliberate attempts to invoke rule 24 fail 15:17:43 i saw an in-depth essay on that 15:17:45 basically 15:17:57 porn of it exists, but sometimes it hasn't manifested into bits on a harddrive yet 15:18:02 that is, it exists, but you can't see it yet 15:18:17 heh 15:18:20 any rule 34 "challenge" fundamentally misunderstands it: it does exist, it's just a matter of it coming into this plane of existing 15:18:23 it was great 15:18:41 no, I agree with that theory, more or less 15:19:16 we need to create a board of scholars for rule 34 15:19:30 our job is to philosophize about it daily. 15:19:43 before anyone says anything: ssh, stop ruining the joke 15:19:54 ehird: you'll get loads of takers if you provide sufficiently many example cases 15:19:57 possibly 15:20:10 ais523: you did not read my last line. 15:20:11 >:| 15:20:47 I did, just chose to ignore it 15:20:49 http://beardeddevelopers.com/ 15:21:10 it has its own website now? 15:21:23 oh, something else 15:21:39 do you know about the theory that languages become more or less popular according to how much of a beard their creator has? 15:21:44 yes 15:21:45 programming languages, that is 15:21:57 do you have a beard? feather will take the world by storm 15:22:04 although moreso if your beard is turing complete 15:22:25 ehird: you not only know I have a beard, but have photographic evidence of the fact 15:22:38 really? 15:22:41 oh, on the wolfram site? 15:22:58 anyway, a picture is not helpful in determining turing-completeness. run a program on your beard./ 15:46:32 I'm going to write a functional-style VM and write a prototype-based smalltalk-alike on top of it 15:46:33 yay 15:50:35 hmm 15:50:37 rate this idea: 15:50:43 the whole VM is based on completely immutable things 15:50:54 it is impossible to change things, only add things, and garbage collection sorts the rest 15:51:12 ehird: Feather 15:51:28 not really 15:51:32 it's the base vm i'm talking about 15:51:34 the lowest level 16:31:35 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:01:36 -!- Mony has joined. 17:02:18 plop 17:02:23 pol 17:18:42 okloplop 17:19:15 okloyourMOM 17:23:03 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:23:16 mmmee? 17:23:37 No. 17:23:40 You're oklopol 17:24:04 err 17:24:04 Slereah: that's just persuading him to change nick... 17:24:07 hmm 17:24:07 he's oklo.* 17:24:15 Slereah: wait i'll check 17:28:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:32:33 http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=8730 <<< this is disgusting, guys... 17:33:41 oklopol: then why did you link us to it 17:34:15 as a joke 17:34:25 if you hadn't said that it's disgusting I probably wouldn't've understood the point of it 17:34:44 You would've if you'd read the context in which it was originally posted here. 17:35:00 ais523: i got that filth from here 17:35:02 Logreading: it's not just a good idea - it's the law! 17:35:24 it was for context 17:35:48 meh, I'm on 25 channels and most logs aren't that interesting anyway 17:35:56 ah, it's rule 34 17:35:58 of rule 34 17:36:10 oh, this is cellular automaton porn? 17:36:14 yep 17:36:18 ais523: rule 34 on rule 34 17:36:24 better would be to morph the starting states 17:36:24 yeah 17:36:25 and then run them 17:36:26 or something 17:36:28 ehird said it 17:36:29 anyway 17:36:39 weren't you here when that was discussed..? 17:36:53 well nm 17:45:00 lulz 17:45:00 Is rule 34 TC? 17:45:18 Slereah: no, it's boring 17:46:01 -!- Organ_used_homos has joined. 17:51:44 Rule 110 is the only one proven to be TC. 17:51:56 and the reflections and color-inversions of it 17:53:58 -!- jix has joined. 17:54:27 ais523: Well, obviously. 17:54:50 I have a rule 110 T-shirt 8-D 17:55:01 * ais523 remembers how immediately after Fermat's Last Theorem was proved for positive exponents, they proved it for negative exponents 17:55:03 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:55:14 once you have the proof for positing exponents, the proof for negatives follows pretty quickly 17:55:17 *positive 17:55:49 I think the proof for inversions of a TC CA is probably much simpler :P 18:11:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:12:30 19:54… × ais523 remembers how immediately after Fermat's Last Theorem was proved for positive exponents, they proved it for negative exponents <<< you should be careful about your pronouns 18:12:47 i mean, that "they" could refer to the people who did the proof in the first place... 18:20:25 No, "they" refers to the alien invaders from Blernflim IX 18:20:46 They were nice enough to prove Fermat's Last Theorem for negative exponents while invading. 18:21:02 hm they must be real invaders because they've managed to keep their name out of google 18:21:33 They wiped themselves from human memory and record, BUT I REMEMBER CUZ ALL MY HATS ARE LINED WITH TIN FOIL 18:21:46 if it's not on google, it _must_ be a real conspiracy 18:22:41 lessee... 18:23:29 x^(-n) + y^(-n) = z^(-n) <=> (yz)^n + (xz)^n = (xy)^n 18:23:53 so trivial as expected 18:32:49 Yeah, but so's your face. 18:54:03 -!- olsner has joined. 20:02:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:09:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:09:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:33:23 -!- warrie has joined. 20:52:48 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 20:54:30 -!- nooga_ has joined. 21:10:45 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:24:24 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:27:04 -!- Corun has joined. 21:35:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:56:09 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 22:20:42 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:22:09 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 22:56:32 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:01:40 -!- Organ_used_homos has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 23:09:04 -!- warrie_ has joined. 23:25:17 ais523, hi! 23:25:31 ais523, saw the /msg? 23:26:09 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2008-11-26: 00:04:26 If a program does nothing but output a single character many times, running it is probably a bad way of determining how many times it outputs that character. 00:04:46 * warrie_ takes a look at BF busy beaver 00:26:19 warrie_, hrrm? 00:26:45 well bf is deterministic depending on input 00:26:51 there is no random operator 00:27:01 so the same program should give the same count 00:27:08 when given the same input 00:27:19 Hmm... found an interesting blog when I tried to find the BFBB... http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/ 00:27:41 MizardX, seen it before once 00:27:47 but what is eigenratio? 00:28:08 old :P 00:28:17 -!- ab5tract has joined. 00:28:31 Eigen values is some special constants that comes from matrices, and a few other systems. 00:28:35 How would you determine the amount of output given by a program like +[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[-..]? 00:28:41 MizardX, hm ok 00:28:59 warrie_, run it with a given input? 00:29:06 wait till it finishes 00:29:27 doing it otherwise sounds like it would solve the halting problem 00:29:38 you may be able to solve that specific case however 00:29:47 AnMaster: suppose there are 1,000,000 [->++<]>s. 00:29:57 2^15 00:30:09 characters will be printed 00:30:11 warrie_, hm I think that may be well defined 00:30:21 Would you run it, or perform some simple calculation and end up at 2^1000001? 00:30:21 that one is easy in fact 00:30:35 yes since you can see much much every [->++<]> adds 00:30:56 then figure out the rate for decrementing 00:31:35 warrie_, but the general case of bf programs.. wouldn't that solve the halting program? 00:31:55 Yes. 00:32:15 Well, maybe not. 00:32:33 really? 00:32:56 * AnMaster waits for warrie_ to explain himself 00:34:46 I find it likely at the moment that it's possible to take any program that outputs n (possibly infinitely many) characters and produce one that runs faster and outputs a number of characters of which n is a function. 00:34:55 Modulo formality and all. 00:35:59 Obviously, it's possible to run the [->++<]> program, note the number of characters it outputs, and produce the null program, with the function being a constant function. 00:38:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:38:49 http://www.getacoder.com/projects/bug_finder_92913.html 00:41:57 That there is a computable function F whose input is a program that outputs n characters and whose output is n if n is finite, where F runs faster than the trivial function satisfying this criterion. 00:42:01 That being the "run it" function. 00:42:49 Hmm, that won't do. 00:43:15 Or maybe it will. 00:44:29 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 01:17:52 Okay, my ORK interpreter now runs *all* demo programs correctly, including the Kipple interpreter. 01:18:21 I've also added implementation notes and bugs. 01:18:31 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/orkdemo.php 01:22:48 -!- Corun has joined. 01:29:14 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:50:13 Eigenratio for the Conway's Life self-interpreter: 5760. ("That's the number of generations that need to be run in Dean Bell's unit cell at level N in order to emulate a single generation in level N+1.") 01:51:15 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:54:13 -!- ab5tract has quit. 01:58:51 I prefer the eigenratio 5760*500*500, since each big generation-cell is that many little generation-cells. 02:14:12 -!- ab5tract has joined. 03:08:57 -!- ab5tract has quit. 03:47:03 -!- Organ_used_homos has joined. 03:49:56 Better description of eigenratio: http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/2006_08_18_archive.html (He was the one who named it) 03:52:11 Yay :D 03:52:45 Organ_used_homos: Please describe the reason for your nickname with NO DETAILS AT ALL 04:00:31 Here's an explanation with no detail : It was on another server. 04:00:37 -!- Organ_used_homos has changed nick to Slereah_. 04:00:59 Please include precisely one more level of detail. 04:01:43 It was a joke. 04:03:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:07:20 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 04:47:38 -!- ab5tract has joined. 04:47:45 'sup dude 04:48:32 -!- ab5tract has quit (Client Quit). 05:22:26 Mmm, supper. 05:22:32 * GregorR is a sup dude. 05:22:47 GET IT? GET IT? IT'S A PUN. 05:24:33 DO YOU WANT MORE DETAILS NOW 05:45:51 * GregorR randomly decided to look at JSMIPS again. 05:46:49 + "today" 05:47:44 JSMIPS? 05:48:17 -!- warrie_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:49:01 Slereah_: http://codu.org/jsmips/ 05:53:16 oklopol! 06:11:51 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:51:55 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:38:51 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:39:59 -!- olsner has joined. 07:58:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:58:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:51:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 08:56:08 -!- nooga_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 09:07:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:14:29 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:36:07 -!- trave has joined. 09:55:07 -!- trave_ has joined. 09:56:11 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 09:56:13 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 10:09:30 -!- trave has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 10:23:56 -!- trave has joined. 10:50:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:05:21 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 11:10:30 -!- Corun has joined. 11:23:45 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 11:46:08 -!- Corun has joined. 11:53:05 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 12:01:18 -!- nooga has joined. 12:01:23 shiiit 12:01:27 i forgot C 12:03:26 -!- trave_ has joined. 12:04:10 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:04:36 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 12:07:25 -!- trave has quit (Client Quit). 12:12:22 GregorR: impressive! (jsmips) 12:14:30 Orc looks cool. 12:14:41 Maybe I can do sum pi-calc with it :o 12:16:15 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:37:18 -!- nooga has joined. 12:37:27 clock() does not work :C 12:38:32 What about cock() 12:38:38 How does it not work? 12:40:52 http://www.ladyada.net/make/fuzebox/ 12:40:54 fucking WANT 12:51:31 4K ram? good for 99bob and stuff but quite limited otherwise 12:53:35 "NTSC RCA composite and S-video out (PAL not supported at this time)" 12:53:36 well 12:53:54 that limits it's usefulness here in Europe 13:00:41 pgimeno: it's for 8-bit games 13:00:43 see the video 13:14:27 it seems that a fully functional VM is pretty hard... 13:14:33 you need to pass everything to functions to get it working 13:14:38 but you have to put the functions SOMEWHERE 13:14:48 but that's mutation of the machine state 13:17:35 Hm. 13:17:38 Machine state. 13:17:46 I for one welcome our new robot overlord. 13:19:29 heh 13:29:56 ais523: appealing a cfj because of schildt 13:29:58 THAT i can support 13:30:09 ehird: wrong channel, but yes 13:30:23 no, schildt's programming is esoteric 13:30:24 :P 13:36:51 -!- oklokok has joined. 13:39:34 o 13:41:38 btw, http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-12/ff_kaminsky?currentPage=all 13:41:41 ^ interesting. 13:44:50 cheap sensation 13:45:09 the attack is absolutely not cheap 13:50:17 The article, on the other hand... 13:50:20 "The vulnerability gave him the power to transfer millions out of bank accounts worldwide." 13:50:52 Well, yes. 13:50:56 But it's entertaining. 13:51:12 Who reads wired for serious, somber articles? 13:52:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 14:03:22 -!- Mony has joined. 14:04:12 plop 14:05:18 Yo 14:05:37 salut Slereah_ ^^ 14:05:59 Comment vas-tu, Mona. 14:06:07 Mona :O 14:06:16 ça va 14:06:17 et toi ? 14:06:50 De mme. 14:07:00 Je dis Mona car c'est le nom des chats de 2chan. 14:07:27 c'est aussi le nom d'une femme 14:07:32 or, je ne suis pas une femme :D 14:09:19 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers6/Shii2.jpg 14:09:31 (Mona vient de la police utilis pour les faire) 14:10:24 \o/ 14:12:05 The scary part is that I understood half of that conversation/ 14:13:14 Well, it did involve kittuns 14:39:41 who wants to think about a purely functional vm and how it's impossible 14:50:18 Virtual machine? 14:50:31 Also why would it be impossible? :o 14:57:24 Slereah_: yes, and because to do anything you have to modify e.g. the call stack or similar 14:57:26 le francophonic invasion 14:57:29 it's impossible to have a VM that only appends 14:57:30 aaaa 14:57:30 without mutating 14:57:39 because at the heart, its based on memory which mutates 14:58:46 ehird : Only if you consider every memory-part of the machine as the memory. 14:59:02 Plus, imagine if your machine just rearranged its connections! 14:59:14 Slereah_: well, show me a spec for a purely-functional (no mutation whatsoever) vm that lets you add two numbers 14:59:18 what connections do you mean? 14:59:18 i'll show the mutation. 14:59:32 BETWEEN THE COMPONENTS 14:59:39 Wires and such. 14:59:43 a 14:59:49 Virtual ones. 15:00:09 Also 15:00:16 I am a functional machine D: 15:00:24 Slereah_: Show the specccccc :P 15:00:27 Give me a program, I'll interpret it for you 15:00:58 filthy ocaml junkie you are 15:01:08 Slereah_ doesn't know ocaml 15:01:10 as far as I know 15:01:11 so shush 15:01:21 he 15:01:22 's a scheme lad. 15:01:26 I know Ocaml 15:01:30 aha! 15:01:30 I just don't use it 15:01:45 Although I'm curious about picaml 15:01:52 Also orc on the esowiki 15:01:55 I am intrigued. 15:02:07 To pick a single point out there, I'm not seeing why you couldn't have an immutable call stack. 15:02:42 fizzie: how would you call a function? 15:02:50 it's immutable. you can't change the call stack. 15:02:54 it must not change. 15:03:19 You can construct a new call stack, though. 15:03:30 Yes indeed. Whatever that means. 15:03:30 fizzie: Where do you put it? 15:03:32 You can't replace it. 15:03:35 With the new one. 15:03:52 I just assume it means something along "Using memory-part as not the memory itself" 15:04:24 fizzie: You can all very well construct a new call stack, but it just sits there doing nothing. 15:04:31 You can't put it into VM memory; it's immutable. 15:05:50 You can pass it to the function. 15:06:05 It's more of a continuation than a call stack in that case, though. 15:06:13 fizzie: Pass it to what function? 15:06:19 You can't construct a function, it has nowhere to go in memory. 15:06:49 You need to make a function then pass a reference to the vm so that it calls it. 15:07:00 But making a function and getting a reference requires putting a function in memory, thus mutating memory. 15:07:09 vm-memory that is 15:07:25 Huh? I assume you have something that can allocate new memory, yes. 15:07:40 fizzie: Yes, but the _in-vm memory cannot change_. 15:07:45 that is the whole point: it's purely functional 15:07:56 you cannot _mutate anything existing_ that exists inside the VM 15:08:20 it's not about implementation 15:08:23 it's about the deisgn of the vm itself 15:08:27 Uh... cons'ing new storage does not sound like mutation to me. 15:08:28 all code in the vm is purely functional, that is 15:08:43 fizzie: that requires changing the VM's memory. 15:08:47 changing anything within the VM is not allowed. 15:09:18 It just means giving it new storage. I'm not sure why your completely functional VM would have mutable memory anyway. 15:09:29 ... when did I say it would? 15:09:52 fizzie: Since I absolutely cannot see how it is possible: how would you spec a VM that mutates nothing within the VM, that lets you add two integers together? 15:10:24 I think there must be some issue of definition mismatch somewhere. 15:10:38 most likely. 15:10:43 But how would you spec such a trivial thing? 15:11:42 I assume a purely functional VM would have (wrt. memory) a single primitive like (cons), which would not be considered mutation. 15:12:04 fizzie: Example? 15:12:15 Plus, why are you always thinking of Lisp? 15:12:25 It's not like it's the only functional thingamagig. 15:12:32 Umm. 15:12:35 Since when am I? 15:12:37 Okay, a single primitive like malloc, then, if you want it to sound low-levelish. 15:12:38 Also. 15:12:41 Lisp is not purely functional. 15:12:50 Not the language, ehird 15:12:53 The original lisp! 15:12:53 I think that was directed to me. I know it most, that's why. 15:13:01 The lisp that is purely functional 15:13:05 fizzie: I'm just asking how you can have a functional VM that lets you add two integers together. I'm not sure you can. 15:13:57 I'm not going to start speccing things. But it's a *virtual machine*, you can freely select what sort of primitives you provide. 15:14:16 I do not think you can create a virtual machine that is able to operate without any mutation whatsoever. 15:14:30 You've basically just said "you're wrong", soooooo... 15:18:21 Your VM can have "call this object as a function" as a primitive, for one thing. You don't need to construct any call stacks or do any mutation "inside the VM" to call a function, then. 15:18:30 fizzie: how do you make an object 15:18:40 push to a stack? ding, you just mutated 15:18:45 put in a register? dinnnnnnggggggggggg 15:18:48 put in vm memory? DINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 15:19:00 With another primitive that allocates new storage. 15:19:13 Ah, and what does it return? How do you use the storage? 15:19:39 Okay, allocates and initializes to whatever you want. 15:19:46 Immutable storage, that is. 15:19:51 fizzie: Variable sized objects? 15:19:54 How do you initialize them? 15:20:20 You don't need variable-sized objects, but I don't see why that would be a problem. 15:20:32 fizzie: In the actual bytecode. 15:20:43 How do you initialize an object with a variable sized initialization? 15:21:09 The function call primitive can easily accept a variable number of parameters. 15:21:25 ok, let's look at this example: 15:21:30 Or the storage-allocation-and-initialization primitive. 15:21:32 {...} call 15:21:32 And you can build variable-sized objects out of fixed-size objects, anyway. 15:21:41 that {...} has to mutate, to put it on the stack or similar 15:22:41 Huh? If it's a parameter to call, why would you need to put it on a stack? 15:23:04 fizzie: {...} being a function 15:23:13 Sure, why not. 15:23:15 Besides, how can call take variable parameters? 15:23:27 I'm talking at bytecode-level here 15:23:36 It's a virtual machine, why couldn't your "bytecode" do whatever you want? 15:23:59 i'm lost 15:24:36 fizzie: Obviously my Lisp interpreter is a virtual machine. 15:24:39 After all, it runs programs. 15:24:42 A completely functional VM (with primitives like "apply") will probably resemble a functional-paradigm language quite a lot, since indeed you don't have registers or anything, just parameters and return values. 15:25:08 Well, yes. 15:26:23 PICKLE SURPRISE! 15:28:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:28:33 y 15:29:00 e 15:29:26 s 15:31:04 fizzie: I mean, a VM bytecode isn't exactly going to be efficient if it's a nested tree ala lisp. 15:31:15 Yet it's kind-of hard to make a stack based VM that doesn't mutate a stack. 15:31:32 Yes; if you base a VM on mutable concepts, it is indeed hard to make one that doesn't use mutation. 15:32:15 Well, yes, but the point is... 15:32:30 If you make your VM use arbitrary nested trees of a few primitives... you've invented Lisp 15:32:32 A functional VM like that would not probably be very "low-level", which I guess is quite understandable, given that "low-level" pretty much means "close to the underlying system", which is very mutation-rich. 15:32:36 (And yet most lisps compile down to a vm, heh.) 15:33:00 fizzie: The idea is, it's a low-level thing, except the system it's being low-level on is a mystical immutable computer. 15:33:23 I want a mystical computer 15:33:28 ehird: a VM can implement a purely functional abstraction even if it isn't purely functional at the physical level (which nothing in our universe can be, presumably) 15:33:35 well, duh, oerj 15:33:36 oerjan: 15:33:44 but...that's not the point 15:33:53 the _VM WORLD_ has to be immutable 15:34:02 i.e. everything you can access via the VM code has to be immutable in every way 15:34:06 VM code = code running on it 15:34:56 ehird: you can do something monadic, the access calculates the next world from the previous 15:35:07 yes, but that's not exactly very functional in spirit 15:35:19 i'm talking more the lambda-calculus type 15:35:49 combonotors :o 15:35:57 Well, you can probably make a purely functional abstraction that's on a "lower level"; you can easily get rid of abitrarily nested trees, at least. (As long as you allow constructing those with the cons-like operation.) 15:36:07 ehird: i am reminded slightly of reversible turing machines 15:36:36 fizzie: The problem is trees in general; it's not very efficient. 15:36:42 the connection being that it is hard to remove information from those, since you need to uncalculate it 15:36:54 cons 1 (cons 2 nil) vs nil 2 cons 1 cons 15:37:19 * oerjan should mention that he is not entirely sober, since that might explain something 15:38:04 Also: 15:38:11 THe former needs a call stack. 15:38:25 Yes, if you want something that's efficient to execute a conventional computer, you'd probably best use a VM that's close to it. 15:38:28 So now you've got something even less like a VM; CPS-transformed lisp. 15:38:36 I'm not really interested in efficiency. 15:38:38 Just low-levelity. 15:39:28 ehird: a kind of graph machine, where graphs grow like crystals, but generated parts of crystals cannot be changed 15:39:38 oerjan: that, except lower-level :-P 15:39:46 crystals are low-level 15:41:09 isn't it muriel or something that only allows you to copy information forward? that's almost immutable 15:41:27 I think so 15:41:32 Hm. 15:41:33 No. 15:41:37 Like SMITH, Muriel has no traditional control structures. Instead, Muriel has a command to replace the currently running Muriel program with a given string, and run that instead. This leads to a programming method where a program must quine itself in order to perform any sort of loop. 15:41:50 maybe it was SMITH 15:43:01 hm seems so 15:44:22 [[. It has no jumps whatsoever; the instruction pointer can only be incremented, and only by one instruction at a time. As a substitute for loops, the language allows code to be copied forward where it will be executed in the future.]] 15:44:23 Kind of. 15:46:00 also there's Elephant (barely non-esoteric) 15:47:29 where everything about the past can be referenced 15:47:49 ah, that's mccarthy's isn't it? 15:47:51 not low-level, of course 15:48:06 yeah 15:48:30 Slereah_ doesn't know ocaml 15:48:38 impossible! he's french after all 15:49:50 see, what i'm planning on implementing is a high-level smalltalk-alike, except it's purely functional, and prototype-based 15:50:36 Is ocaml Frenh? :o 15:52:00 it's developed by INRIA and Xavier Leroy iirc 15:52:06 Normal people would just do a "traditional" VM that's just a bit more functionally-oriented than the rest. 15:52:09 Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECD_machine was 15:52:47 fizzie: well this is ehird we are talking about 15:53:05 Yes, and this is #esoteric. 15:53:09 To hell with traditional things, I want purely functional! :-P 15:53:25 I don't actually care if it's slow, Squeak is a dog anyway - besides, I'm planning on writing the VM in the language itself 15:53:27 the compiler too. 15:53:35 #esoteric can only do purely dysfunctional 15:53:36 (As well as a bootstrap in-C vm&compiler.) 15:53:48 (But beyond that...) 15:55:29 Isn't dysfunctional the unlambda/BF mix? 15:58:49 0x29A 15:59:03 but there is no reason we couldn't have more 15:59:12 Why that name by the way? 15:59:21 hint: it's hex 15:59:21 It doesn't roll well on your toungue. 15:59:29 Hex for what? 15:59:44 sheesh 15:59:46 666 15:59:52 Oh. 16:00:02 ... 16:00:03 Wait 16:00:08 What about the other one. 16:00:20 huh? 16:00:38 wait 16:01:11 THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE ... oh wait i just claimed the opposite didn't i 16:01:41 I recall some language called 0x29C or something 16:01:46 Related to the first 16:02:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/0x29C 16:02:33 Yah 16:02:36 how observant 16:02:41 668? 16:02:46 anyway, current thinking: I need to figure out how to do a purely-functional, applicationy-language without having a lisp-like (nested (tree)) 16:03:01 Why 668 :o 16:03:10 Slereah_, you said 0x29C 16:03:43 thus you said 668 16:03:47 Yes. 16:03:48 I know. 16:03:53 But why is it called 668. 16:04:18 i say potayto, you say 0xP0TAHT0 16:04:28 oerjan, what base is that 16:04:47 it isn't valid hex expressed in the common 0x way 16:04:49 at leas 16:04:51 least* 16:05:05 AnMaster: it's base humor 16:05:21 wait doesn't "base humor" mean something else? 16:05:33 the phrase sounds familiar 16:05:52 and AnMaster wins! 16:05:52 s/wait /wait, / 16:05:59 oerjan, eh? 16:06:17 you detected a pun. that still keeps surprising me. 16:06:25 especially when not sober 16:06:34 I'm always sober 16:06:41 oerjan, and, what is "base humor"? 16:06:43 but i'm not 16:06:43 I can't remember 16:06:47 except having heard the word 16:06:48 oerjan: why aren't you sober? 16:07:19 because an old friend came to town and bought a bottle of red wine 16:07:43 drink in moderation, or better yet, don't drink at all 16:08:04 it's the first time i drink since June. i think that's plenty of moderation. 16:08:24 AnMaster: why? drinking a lot is great for ideas, drinking a lot if great for getting things done that are not fun to do 16:08:40 *drinking a little to the first one 16:08:46 ,... 16:08:48 AnMaster: low-level humor, btw, iirc 16:08:50 the fucking latter one i mean 16:09:03 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 16:09:09 afk for the rest of the evening 16:09:27 bie 16:13:58 this Orc thing, how is it esoteric? 16:15:57 not 16:15:58 it seems 16:16:17 isn't Orc a bit old? 16:16:22 * oerjan goes on a blanking rampage 16:16:39 delete, don't blank 16:16:39 :p 16:16:58 bottle of red wine? 16:17:08 isn't vodka beter for blanking? ;p 16:17:36 s/et/ett/ 16:17:41 possibly 16:18:34 hm we don't seem to have a deletion request template 16:19:04 you're an op 16:19:06 just delete it 16:19:26 i'm not 16:19:44 dang 16:19:48 oh 16:20:06 i have returned from breslavia todays morning and had no sleep 16:21:01 i know, it's easy to make that assumption from my air of wisdom and authority 16:21:26 correct 16:21:37 oerjan, why do you act sober when not sober? 16:21:49 i guess it's starting to wear off 16:22:46 it was only half a bottle after all 16:23:34 half a litre per capita is the definition of nothing, as we say in Poland 16:23:57 (vodka ofc) 16:24:05 if i wasn't seriously out of training it would probably have been nothing to me too 16:24:30 heh, I can't drink 16:24:37 maybe a beer sometimes 16:24:42 but not too much 16:24:57 ah, end of work, bbl 16:24:59 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 16:59:49 -!- AquaLoqua has joined. 17:07:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:10:30 -!- AquaLoqua has quit ("Dana"). 17:16:22 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:22:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/1cnis <<< doesn't perl have a "use" for getting bignums? 17:22:56 use fairly_big_numbers; 17:23:09 yes. 17:23:44 well yeah that wasn't really a question 17:25:09 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:27:17 THEN WHY DID YOU USE A QUESTION MARK DUMBASS 17:27:28 i mean, hi 17:27:33 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:28:15 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:45:33 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:54:26 oerjan: i like you when you're drunk :D 17:54:32 well i guess you aren't anymore 17:54:52 i'm not half as think as you drunk i am 17:55:28 -!- Corun has joined. 18:03:04 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 18:04:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:03:45 -!- warrie has joined. 19:27:51 oko 19:59:02 bye 19:59:04 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 20:07:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:18:28 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:27:08 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:30:46 -!- olsner has joined. 20:36:44 ehird: concatenative 20:36:53 bsmntbombdood: wat 20:37:09 anyway, current thinking: I need to figure out how to do a purely-functional, applicationy-language without having a lisp-like (nested (tree)) 20:37:16 except: 20:37:23 no mutation allowed, and it has to be low-level [it's a vm] 20:37:27 keyword mutation there 20:37:32 ....concatenative 20:37:36 if you're pushin' 'n poppin' to a stack 20:37:36 i don't know what mutation means 20:37:38 you're mutating. 20:37:41 bsmntbombdood: changing. 20:37:47 ...i know that 20:38:37 i don't know what you mean 20:42:44 ditto. 20:44:44 I'm not sure how a "low-level"-feeling thing you'll get without having at least some registers. I'm sure you could do some sort of functional tarpit, though. 20:44:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:45:23 guys 20:45:43 http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=649306 20:46:10 i think psygnisfive just set a record for "time until conversation reaches offtopicity" 20:46:12 by starting off on it. 20:46:25 :) 20:46:29 this is esoteric. there is no topic 20:46:40 -!- psygnisfive has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | this is not the topic you are looking for. 20:47:40 i send that link because im curious if any of yous guys care to figure out some explanation for the phenomena that's explanation 20:47:41 excplanatory 20:48:41 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:58:15 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:58:34 nobody? nobody? 21:01:44 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:05:01 -!- jix has joined. 21:05:37 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 21:06:16 psygnisfive, what? 21:06:30 http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=649306 21:06:35 off topic 21:06:45 * AnMaster agrees with ehird 21:07:04 yes, but this is esoteric. nothing is on topic here. :P 21:07:38 i take it AnMaster commented inbetween 21:07:51 in which case i'd like to tell AnMaster that this channel is pretty anarchic, and just about any topic goes. 21:08:04 no, i ask here because i figure you guys like solving queer problems 21:08:08 you could ask how to program a turing machine to follow that rule. that would probably be utterly irrelevant to how the brain does it. 21:08:12 also, it's linguistics 21:08:13 and this is definitely a queer problem 21:08:16 and esoteric-y linguistics 21:08:17 sooooooo 21:08:40 hah, ehird changed point of view just to avoid agreeing with me 21:08:43 how sad 21:08:47 night all 21:08:51 lol 21:08:52 night 21:09:14 * ehird rreads logs. AnMaster: wrong 21:09:21 i said it was off-topic, i didn't say that was a bad thing. 21:09:49 ehird: thats an idea. how would you design a TM to follow that rule, without simply /listing/ all the different versions 21:10:00 -!- oerjan has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | all talking in channel forbidden. 21:10:10 there, now everything is guaranteed off topic 21:10:27 psygnisfive: i'd implement strong ai first. 21:10:40 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The topic is everything that AnMaster doesn't say. 21:10:55 ehird: :P 21:11:03 cmon be serious now 21:11:19 if AnMaster says [[http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The topic is everything that AnMaster doesn't say]] 21:11:22 then he will cause a paradox 21:11:28 and we shall exile him. 21:11:48 -!- AnMaster has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The topic is everything that ehird doesn't say. 21:12:36 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The topic is "AnMaster fails to sleep after saying so, due to defending himself against the annoying ehird, and probably sighing a lot in the process. /sigh". 21:13:16 -!- AnMaster has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ehird thinks this is funny. I suggest lament sets a sane topic and then +t mode.. 21:13:28 AnMaster: it's not going to happen 21:13:36 the last time this channel was opped is when I got kicked on request 21:13:55 if you don't like us doing what the fuck we want, make your own channel 21:13:58 with a dictatorship. 21:13:59 well you are free to ignore me, but please don't try to be annoying then 21:14:01 so get lost 21:14:04 *shrug* 21:14:14 also I never said it was bad either 21:14:18 to be off topic 21:14:23 * ehird reads logs. I'll be as annoying as I'd like, I'm very sure you have an /ignore. I do; it's very useful for ignoring your blabber. 21:14:24 like you I just said it was off topic 21:15:09 there we go 21:15:11 ignored 21:15:13 good idea ehird 21:15:19 so ehird 21:15:23 sgeo 21:15:25 any ideas? :P 21:15:26 hi psygnisfive 21:15:28 nope 21:15:30 i'm no linguist 21:15:40 well pretend its not a linguistics problem at all 21:16:38 because its really not 21:16:47 i didn't read most of the post 21:16:47 :D 21:16:57 ok well heres a summary in linguistics-less terminology 21:17:21 -!- AnMaster has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | This topic may not be changed.. 21:17:31 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | o rly. 21:17:35 now night 21:17:36 cya 21:17:53 in a sequence consisting of {A, B, C, X}, when any of {A, B, C} precede X, the ordering is always A-B-C 21:18:01 the ordering of those that precede, i mean 21:18:05 wat 21:18:11 what what 21:18:15 in the butt 21:18:59 did you not what i said 21:19:13 no, he accidentally all of it 21:19:25 yep... the WHOLE thing 21:19:26 did you not get* 21:19:27 :P 21:19:34 i mean, i was just there, right 21:19:42 and i accidentally the WHOLE WHAT YOU SAID 21:19:43 :\ 21:19:51 jesus, it was really. 21:19:58 should i explain it again? :P 21:20:06 After I accidentally it?! 21:20:10 No way! Not again! 21:20:14 that's unpossible! 21:20:23 * psygnisfive stabs ehird in the face 21:20:34 You purposefully my whole face! 21:21:17 * psygnisfive fucks ehird in the face 21:21:31 You purposefully carrier lost 21:21:42 whaa 21:22:10 african or european carrier? 21:22:18 lost carrier 21:23:47 Lava 21:23:49 4 pieces of 21:23:50 3 pieces of 21:23:50 Lava 21:23:52 Infinite lava 21:23:55 Delicious 21:23:57 Benny Lava! 21:24:00 For your breakfast lunchtime! 21:24:12 I love the lava live and it loves me... 21:25:19 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_. 21:25:25 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 21:29:40 ok a silly idea, there are 5 slots. the first can only contain an A, the second B, etc., the last can contain any of A B C 21:31:40 the remainder is left as an exercise for the reader 21:32:16 hey psygnisfive 21:32:26 do you like smalltalk (the programming language, damnit) 21:34:39 never used it 21:35:17 oerjan: well thats not the whole of it: 21:35:37 when _any_ of {A, B, C} precedes X, the order is A-B-C 21:35:42 among those that precede. 21:35:58 but when they follow X, the order among those that follow is unrestricted 21:35:59 -!- nooga has joined. 21:36:03 well duh the slots are ordered 21:36:50 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 21:36:54 -!- trave has joined. 21:36:55 so, was there a conclusion about this functional VM? 21:36:57 but order within a slot is arbitrary 21:37:02 nooga: not yet 21:37:11 what do you mean order within a slot?? 21:37:14 though only the last slot can contain more than one element 21:37:27 oh i see 21:37:46 so you mean theres something like [1] [2] [3] X [4] 21:37:49 yes 21:38:09 [1] - [3] restricted to containing only one item, while [4] can have n items 21:38:31 and [1] - [3] are content restricted 21:38:38 * oerjan gives psygnisfive a C on the exercise 21:38:42 well this works, but its not very explanator :( 21:38:45 y 21:38:50 so? 21:39:08 well the challenge was to find an explanatory way of describing the restrictions :P 21:39:23 you _really_ expect anything to explain it better than what you actually said? 21:40:02 the actual explanation may involve neuron structure and genes, in a horribly twisted way 21:40:05 sure! there are actually atleast two explanations that are relatively simple, in that the orderings just sort of fall out of the assumptions you put on the systems 21:40:20 oh i dont mean neuronal/genetic explanations i mean computational system explanations 21:41:01 there are two really simple explanations, as i said. they're both very very computationally oriented 21:41:40 rather than just an arbitrary specification like your slot hypothesis 21:41:51 would anyone be interested in checking out a diagram i put together, that attempts to associate the color spectrum to specific definitions? 21:41:59 sure :D 21:42:04 yep 21:42:12 that was just intended to be quasi-linguistic 21:42:23 http://illuminerd.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/om-resource-system/ 21:42:28 oerjan: syntax is very computationally. 21:42:52 im writing a paper for a syntax seminar on the restrictions that the formal system we use has 21:42:55 trave: makes sense to me. 21:43:03 :) 21:43:13 trave: i dont get it. 21:43:52 im hoping to work out a GTD style organizing system that you can log every aspect of "life" into color coded compartments 21:43:59 looks colorful and nice 21:44:40 so, like if it was an iPhone application, youd have a spinning color coded sphere where you can keep track of things in bins 21:44:57 so oerjan: no ideas besides that? :( 21:45:17 psygnisfive: i find the idea boring 21:45:21 :( 21:45:39 object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing. -- rob pike 21:45:57 roman numerals in their original form were actually pretty darn useful 21:46:13 he's right; although i like oop - 21:46:24 roman numerals were useful, but that doesn't stop them being primitive 21:46:56 psygnisfive: what is U20 v2 ? 21:47:00 what id like to see is relations between these object spheres, how resources are related between parties 21:47:41 trave: i don't get it 21:48:39 trave: i don't get it 21:48:43 id have to post this other word doc that i wrote up that explains the mechanics of the idea more, rather than the esoteric color associates 21:48:47 associations 21:49:00 wait, how are the associations esoteric? 21:49:10 ... ohhh, you mean esoteric as in the non-programming language sense 21:49:11 colors == elements 21:49:24 i didn't realise because this channel is often offtopic, but the official topic is esoteric programming languages 21:49:30 ooh, i didnt know esoteric was a programming language, hah 21:49:35 nooga: pms 21:49:37 it's not 21:49:42 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language 21:49:47 it's a type of proglang 21:49:50 but umm anything goes here 21:49:51 :P 21:50:23 ah that makes sense 21:50:25 :D 21:51:07 this is pretty much the most generic channel on irc. 21:51:49 well, the elements can be associated to colors, red/fire, blue/water, green/earth, etc. and the "purpose" of those elements can be given broader meanings... so like yellow == wind == words, etc. 21:52:22 psygnisfive: you mean ... http://encyclopediadramatica.com/PMS 21:52:28 or green == earth == money/property 21:52:28 no :P 21:52:32 private messages 21:52:33 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:52:35 PMs 21:52:51 * ehird doesn't understand psygnisfive's PM obsession. 21:53:09 well, im talking to him about that ordering stuff and im sure you dont want to hear it so 21:53:33 i do it to not inconvenience you guys 21:53:56 we don't mind :P 21:54:14 meh. still. 21:56:17 i don't like *all* numbers 21:56:42 just REAL numbers? 21:57:58 those pesky tranfinite numbers. coming here living off welfare and and taking our jobs. 22:01:45 oerjan: thanks a lot... my *mother* is a transfinite number 22:03:36 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 22:04:01 not to mention an expert in cardinal sins 22:05:12 ba dum dum ching. 22:29:25 applause 22:32:20 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 22:34:31 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 22:34:55 -!- Corun has joined. 22:35:01 textual esoteric languages are boring 22:35:31 so last year. this is the age of _smell_ 22:35:40 no no no 22:35:41 touch 22:35:44 sexual programming languages. 22:35:45 ehird: Stage 69 has me beat. 22:35:53 GregorR: which is that 22:36:10 clearly a problem in the sexual programming 22:36:11 oerjan: Hey ... I'm anosmic :( 22:36:24 ehird: The evil one. 22:36:27 ehird: :P 22:36:29 GregorR: what's the code 22:36:47 also, ansomic: awesome 22:36:48 763-716 22:37:44 eh 22:37:46 it doesn't look hard 22:37:47 tedious yes 22:37:49 but not hard 22:38:11 I can't get the third one. 22:38:16 The first two and last one are trivial. 22:38:19 I'll try it. 22:38:41 is it the one with four uppity-caves you have to climb 22:38:46 whats so hard about it 22:38:46 Yes 22:38:50 what is that game? 22:38:52 And the third is EVIL 22:38:57 http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ 22:39:03 how is it hard 22:39:05 it just looks tediou 22:39:06 s 22:39:12 GregorR: you should apply for a service dog that can translate the smells for you 22:39:24 it's pretty easy, you just jump, and hit left very quickly just as you're on the hole, so you get on the brink 22:39:27 then just repeat 22:39:35 you can only fail in the middle doing that 22:39:46 oklopol: ORLY THANX I NEVR THOT OF THAT LAWL 22:39:48 * GregorR slaps oklopol 22:40:03 oerjan: Yes. Because anosmia is life-hindering :P 22:40:14 ansomnia would be awesome 22:40:19 GregorR: err, you can't do it like that? 22:40:22 smells, in general, aren't overwhelmingly interesting 22:40:26 and yet 22:40:31 you get to not deal with all the crappy smells 22:40:32 i envy you sir 22:40:52 ehird: Do you like tea, coffee or beer? 22:40:56 when i discovered that, i did it in two tries 22:41:03 Toffeer 22:41:06 oklopol: I can't get the timing right X_X 22:41:26 ehird: They all taste like bitter water to me. 22:41:26 GregorR: it's pretty trivial to just hit the button when you're at the hole. 22:41:34 oklopol: Yeah, well so's your face. 22:41:34 GregorR: Oh :( 22:41:37 GregorR: What about chocolate? 22:41:56 ehird: Dark chocolate is good ... it's a good bitterness ... bitterness combined with deep flavor ... like Moxie. 22:42:09 GregorR: i'm going to tell you that about every level until you beat 97 ;) 22:42:09 So basically everything is bitter to you :P 22:42:15 * oklopol is at 98, and not playing atm 22:42:29 atm meaning like, probably not this week 22:42:37 ehird: Well, I don't like milk chocolate, that was just a bad example :P 22:42:49 ehird: Chicken does not taste bitter to me. 22:42:58 ehird: Turkey (more relevantly) does not taste bitter to me. 22:43:36 btw, the last tower is the hard one 22:43:39 the third one is easy 22:43:51 -!- trave_ has joined. 22:44:28 Whaaa? I did the last tower on my first try! All you have to do is get at the edge of each hole and jump, you can't overrun getting into the next hole so just hold down (and of course make sure to pull up before falling off the edge, but that's not hard) 22:44:38 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:44:42 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 22:44:45 Are we talking abotu the same one 22:45:01 I think so X-P 22:45:17 Level bow-chicka-bow-wow. 22:45:40 isn't it more like bow-bow-chicka-wow? 22:46:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:46:21 i must flee now, i have AN INFINITE SET to prove things about 22:46:22 --> 22:46:33 (IT'S FUCKING INFINITE) 22:46:43 that's what _she_ said 22:48:40 in regards to how long you have to wait to get some? 22:48:58 OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 22:48:59 Burn. 22:50:17 -!- Corun has quit ("The forks."). 22:50:25 GregorR: falling into the lava again? 22:54:44 GregorR: i had a friend who's dad falled from a cliff and crashed his head... after that he was forced to discover flavours again 22:55:10 so he ate things like a sausage with chocolate and mayonaise 22:55:22 nooga: ... yum ... or not. 22:55:32 or jam with pepper and cucumber 22:56:17 I notice that in both of your examples there's really only one offensive ingredient :P 22:56:33 liver with strawberries + smoking a cig 22:56:37 and so on 22:57:31 brb 22:57:56 GregorR is falling in lava? with whom? 22:58:04 with his LOVE 22:58:22 hey whazza full code again 22:58:28 :D 22:58:31 i have it 22:58:35 oklopol: wut iz it 22:58:37 but i think it's better if fizzie gives it 22:58:41 fizzie: 22:58:46 fizzie: can you give the full codie again? 22:58:56 fizzie: what's the code for 1-100? 22:59:10 fizzie: ehird wants to play can you give him the code? 23:00:09 oklopol: wut izi t 23:00:14 fizzie: We luv spamming u 23:00:19 fizzie: do u luv being spammed? 23:00:26 fizzie: cuz ur gunna get lots LAWL 23:02:11 oklopol: hes idle 23:02:12 just tell me 23:02:12 :< 23:03:27 :) 23:03:40 809-936 23:03:55 http://infosthetics.com/archives/chocolate_pie_chart.jpg 23:04:39 What that chart tells me is that white chocolate sucks (which it does), milk chocolate sorta sucks, and dark chocolate is good. 23:04:52 thank you ok 23:04:53 oklopol: 23:04:59 why milk chocolate sorta sucks? 23:04:59 hey i like white chocolate 23:05:07 milk chocolate has the majority of the pie 23:05:10 also milk chocolate. also dark chocolate. 23:05:25 i... pretty much just like chocolate 23:05:44 chocolate is pretty tasty. 23:05:47 but i prefer meat 23:05:48 White chocolate isn't chocolate. 23:05:53 Don't go calling white chocolate a type of chocolate. 23:05:55 Because it's not. 23:05:56 It's a LIE. 23:05:56 actually it is schocolate. 23:06:10 since its made from cocoa butter. 23:06:20 well, its sort of chocolate. 23:06:43 IT'S A LIE 23:06:44 it lacks the cacao 23:09:06 proper chocolate is just basically ground up chocolate bean + milk and sugar and such, while white chocolate is chocolate bean fat + milk and sugar and such 23:09:21 Yes. 23:09:25 and such as. 23:09:27 Making it a LIE. 23:09:42 btw, white chocolate is tasty 23:09:44 so stfu 23:09:46 its only a lie if you require the phrase "white chocolate" to be strictly compositional 23:10:00 Also, the "such" contains the all-important and extremely-underrated ingredient vanilla. 23:10:04 And vanilla is delicious. 23:10:07 and for "chocolate" to mean all and only the products produced using the whole bean 23:10:08 oh yes 23:10:10 vanilla is delicious 23:10:14 mmmmmmmm 23:10:22 i hate it when people say "vanilla" is "plain" 23:10:24 And also a yellow-brown color. 23:10:26 it is so not 23:10:28 vanilla is not plain 23:10:33 vanilla is tasty and exploding and MMMMMM 23:10:35 if you make icecream without vanilla, it tastes bland 23:10:35 psygnisfive: It's all the fault of American ice cream companies. 23:10:37 everything is better with vanilla 23:10:38 thats plain 23:10:41 and everything is better with chocolate 23:10:42 and everything is better with bacon 23:10:44 add vanila and WOW 23:10:45 chocolate bacon has been done 23:10:45 but 23:10:46 not 23:10:50 vanilla chocolate bacon 23:10:56 IT MUST HAPPEN 23:11:06 There's vanilla in chocolate. 23:11:10 Therefore it has been done. 23:11:10 i actually refuse to make non-vanila icecream on a plain base 23:11:14 but NOT ENOUGH GregorR 23:11:15 egg & bacon icecream has been done 23:11:17 i only use vanilla icecream as a base 23:11:20 i do not like sweets 23:11:26 like, coffee icecream? 23:11:31 I prefer meat. 23:11:32 so much better if you start with a vanilla base 23:11:34 when i eat something sweet, i must smoke immediately 23:11:35 nooga: how dare you call chocolate sweets 23:11:40 how dare you call vanilla a sweet 23:11:40 to kill the flavour 23:11:45 (how dare you call bacon a sweet) 23:11:49 As well as yourself. 23:11:50 they are GODS of your PUNY EXISTANCE 23:11:54 and yeah 23:11:55 what GregorR said :P 23:12:03 soon you won't have to smoke after sweets! 23:12:07 or indeed eat at all! :D 23:12:13 Cancer cures smoking! 23:12:25 gregorr: apparently most american white chocolate has no cocoa butter at all 23:12:34 meh 23:12:38 Smoking cures cancer! For some definition of curing! Or cancer! OR SMOKING! 23:12:47 psygnisfive: That's because it's a LIE! :P 23:12:53 Anyway, corned beef is good. 23:12:53 non smokers are funny 23:13:04 "Smoking cures cancer, if by 'smoking' you mean 'chemotherapy'" 23:13:08 GregorR: are you playing the sequel to Portal? 23:13:13 THE WHITE CHOCOLATE IS A LIE 23:13:21 nooga: yes, smoking destroys the humor gland 23:13:23 psygnisfive: There's a sequel to Portal? X-P 23:13:30 not yet but if there were!@ 23:13:30 he was joking 23:13:49 erm 23:13:55 I was being optimistic :( 23:14:06 hoping and joking don't mix 23:14:17 Yeah, well so's your face. 23:14:33 touche 23:14:58 * GregorR has decided, spurned on by an episode of Scrubs, to use that in all situations in which it's nonsensical. 23:15:15 GregorR: Yeah, well so's your face. 23:15:19 Burn. 23:15:20 eh kurwa 23:15:20 GregorR: you needed the scrubs episode to motivate that? 23:15:24 Walked right into that one. 23:15:34 just being on the internet should've motivated you 23:15:34 psygnisfive: Yeah, but so's your face. 23:15:39 scrubs is great 23:15:43 yeah but you know what, GregorR? 23:15:46 YOUR FACE IS A LIE 23:15:46 oklopol: Yeah, well so's your face. 23:15:47 ...wait 23:15:52 D-8 23:16:00 ehird: yeah i've been told that 23:16:07 yeah i went there 23:16:27 i went into the Mixed Nerd Cultural Phraseology territory 23:16:33 AND WHAT 23:16:35 speaking of 23:16:39 Big Bang Theory 23:16:56 bang bang 23:17:04 bong bong 23:17:22 ooh yea 23:17:27 bing bing 23:17:42 what if the universe was created by a Big Bong? 23:17:51 :D:D:D 23:17:53 MNCPT is dangerous 23:17:54 the Big Bong theory 23:17:58 for your tongue 23:18:10 trave: the egyptians believed the universe was created by a very large ejaculation. 23:18:24 sweet. 23:18:28 this theory might've been inspired by a big bong, however. 23:18:36 i need to join the OTO and participate in some of that 23:18:50 and Big Bong theory assumes that it was a very large inhalation 23:18:55 hehe 23:19:38 *greetings from cancer* 23:20:18 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:20:54 then we have the theories of the Big Binge, the Big Bungee, and the Big Bongo 23:22:37 Big Bigloo 23:25:40 big bang theory tho 23:25:42 good show 23:25:43 very nerdy 23:25:45 very current 23:26:30 is there a "big gang bang" theory yet? 23:26:41 i think i just added that to the multi-verse 23:27:11 i was wondering... from where did they get words describing things and abstract ideas in various languages 23:27:31 im sure theres some possible world where there is such a theory 23:27:38 it's quite hard to make completely new dictionary from scratch 23:27:56 it started with Vowels from what I gather 23:28:30 theres only 5 "connecting" sounds, the consenants seem like theyre the static 23:28:39 psygnisfive: that show stole a game from one of Wooble (from ##nomic)'s friends 23:28:47 is it like "oh, i see that thing... let it be a wyeirmd... nah... or rather .... a tree ! (xD)" 23:28:48 apparently. http://www.samkass.com/theories/RPSSL.html 23:28:55 ehird: what? 23:29:02 oh! 23:29:07 dude haha 23:29:08 thats awesome 23:29:18 i told you they're current 23:29:27 that game was invented 10 years ago. 23:29:31 still 23:29:33 its nergy 23:29:36 nerdy* 23:29:38 hebrew numbers are represented by alphabetic letters, there is no separation 23:29:47 :P 23:30:02 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:30:20 psygnisfive: what do you think about that? 23:30:41 ehird: still, how cool is that? someone from ##nomic, their friend, now has a game on a tv show 23:30:44 its cool dude cmon! 23:30:47 nooga: of what? 23:30:58 00:27 23:31:18 making a dictionary from scratch? 23:31:19 so, letters/sounds become associated to meaningful attributes, which then are strung together into words 23:31:20 psygnisfive: well, he wasn't credited or told about it and the show apparently portrayed it as if it'd invented it 23:31:26 and now people yell about it daily on his comment section 23:31:27 saying he stole it 23:31:37 i'm not sure the upside is good enough to cover that :-P 23:31:42 ehird: i dont think anyone believes they invented anything in the show 23:31:53 because its all very real 23:31:53 look at the comments. 23:31:54 i mean 23:32:01 sheldon twitters, for instance 23:32:10 well ok maybe some people think it was invented in the show but 23:32:23 the show is for real geeks 23:32:30 everything is an inside joke 23:32:34 what I find interesting is that before man evolved to a state of verbal language, we communicated like how "primitive" animals do through chemicals and mental vibes. 23:32:39 made funnier by the fact that its all genuine 23:32:47 trave: "man was originally primitive then evolved" 23:32:47 its parodying us by BEING us 23:32:48 deep. 23:33:16 trave: individual sounds arent associated with meanings really 23:33:28 thats one of the things about language that makes it language 23:33:41 chemical communication is neat because it lingers over time, chatter so temporary and "secret" 23:33:44 the actual sound content of words is arbitrary 23:34:08 but try to name things you see with your own words that arent riddiculous and do not resemble any words that you know for those things in the languages you know 23:34:11 hard, huh? 23:34:25 well im talking about the beginning of verbal communication, its gotten pretty fragmented with so many new variations and dialects over time 23:34:33 nooga: how's that hard? i have python 23:34:35 nooga: ofcourse its hard 23:34:38 we speak a particular language 23:34:51 trying to break out of that is difficult because the sound-meaning association is so very strong 23:35:06 trees just LOOK like they should be called "tree"! 23:35:25 but if you ask a french person, trees just LOOK like they should be called "arbre" 23:35:31 but 23:35:35 or a japanese person, trees just LOOK like they should be called "moku" 23:35:37 etc 23:35:41 -!- warrie has joined. 23:35:42 also it's pretty simple to start thinking in a random inexistant language, only educated fools think languages we know make us associate words with them 23:35:58 oklopol: you have to realise that you're bizarre 23:36:00 :P 23:36:16 a tree? i think it's should be called something with a shizzle 23:36:18 if you ask me in Polish, "co to jest?" (what is that) pointing a tree i will immediately say "drzewo" (a tree) 23:36:28 like znor 23:36:32 im curious about the ideas of orwells new-speak that 23:36:34 but when you ask me in English, i would immediately say "a tree"" 23:36:41 maybe with a CZZHHH at the end 23:36:53 hmm 23:37:02 ... reducing out all the redundancy out of language and working towards the most basic 23:37:04 nooga: it seems polish is pretty close to my idea word for tree then 23:37:13 możliwe 23:37:28 (possible) 23:37:41 maybe my brain is polish? 23:37:46 hehe 23:38:45 trave: it wouldnt do anything 23:38:55 i wouldn't be glad about that in your place ;p 23:39:15 the sapir-whorf hypothesis, that language constrains thought, is false. 23:39:18 patently. 23:39:54 i wish it was true because i like imagining AIs programmed in BASIC being really fucking dumb and yet making all kinds of cool shit 23:40:00 brainfuck ones twiddling away for ages to do incomprehensible stuff slowly 23:40:01 etc 23:40:16 hehah 23:40:20 well 23:40:27 thats a whole different issue there 23:40:32 true 23:40:35 a different way in which language affects "thought" 23:40:47 seen perl 6 ? 23:40:49 obviously since those languages are TC theres nothing one can do that the other cant 23:41:02 i get cha. the time it takes to read is already at the speed of thought, its arbitrary what the letter combinations are, its emotion that you are recording. 23:41:04 the sapir-whorf hypothesis tho is that we THINK in the language we SPEAK 23:41:10 which is not true 23:41:27 welllllll 23:41:27 trave: the speed of reading is actually not. 23:41:29 i think in english 23:41:30 a language that is capable of altering itself to the enourmous abstraction levels 23:41:30 most of the time 23:41:32 Fun experiment: read something, speak it, and type it all at the same time while thinking about something else entirely. 23:41:39 i dont mean what your inner voice is in, ehird 23:41:54 ouch, that makes my head hurt just visualizing that experiment 23:42:00 btw, everyone has a little monitor in their head right? 23:42:07 inner voices are definitely in your native language, or whatever 23:42:09 as in, you can display images sort of... in the block of space on your head above your eyes 23:42:13 except it's kind of not there 23:42:16 it's kind of everywhere 23:42:24 i'm assuming this is normal 23:42:37 Actually, you have to think about what you're reading to some extent in order to speak it. 23:42:37 what i mean is that actual _thought_ is in your language 23:42:40 agh i just used that and eeeeek 23:42:42 it creeps me out 23:42:46 Just read it and type it at the same time. 23:42:47 like for instance 23:42:52 depending on situation i can think in my basic english, or polish or even both simultaneously 23:42:57 psygnisfive: TELL ME WHERE THOSE IMAGES ARE 23:42:58 :--------------------; 23:43:00 if your language lacked tense and words for time concepts 23:43:12 then you would be INCAPABLE of conceiving of the notion of time 23:43:19 ehird: there are no images. what? 23:43:26 there is no cartesian theatre. :P 23:43:34 psygnisfive: what, you mean you can't display images in your head?!?! 23:43:46 D: 23:43:50 thats not what i said ;) 23:43:54 oh. 23:43:58 it just freaks me out. 23:44:02 i can see them, but i can't see them in any place. 23:44:19 when you say see them but not in any place 23:44:22 what do you mean actually? 23:44:29 i don't see them with my eyes, i guess 23:44:31 i just... perceive them 23:44:34 I cannot think about calculus without thinking in English to some extent. 23:44:36 well yes sure 23:44:36 I can "see" them but they're not placed anywhere. 23:44:44 i'm assuming everyone else can do that/ 23:44:48 * warrie realizes that he's had ehird on ignore all this time, and /unignores him 23:44:48 but are they in space around you? 23:44:51 i.e. just conjour up an image? 23:44:53 it'r rather like you create a more or less abstract scene described in brain compatible format 23:44:53 and no. 23:45:00 they're... nowhere, really. 23:45:00 huh thats interesting 23:45:04 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 23:45:05 ...that was wrong. 23:45:12 psygnisfive: imagine a random scene 23:45:13 in your head 23:45:14 I cannot think about calculus without thinking in images to some extent. 23:45:15 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:45:16 can you see it if you try to? 23:45:17 this is related to what that diagram i showed you guys is all about... all these various tangible/intangible "objects", can be organized into nested meaningful color-coded levels. for example: blue == water (emotions/life) == people... 23:45:18 just think of an image 23:45:25 and you know where exactly are things on that scene and what happens there 23:45:29 you can perceive it, right? 23:45:32 but you don't see it anywhere 23:45:36 and there's no actual seeing to speak of 23:45:37 yet it's there 23:45:38 yes, but its sort of within my spacial model of the world, to an extent 23:45:51 psygnisfive: does it like, appear in front of you? 23:46:03 if you have had enough mushrooms, it does 23:46:04 not that its anyhere in particular, but its not exactly completely dislocated from a spatial position 23:46:23 it doesnt appear in from of me in the sense that it looks as real as things i see with my eyes 23:46:25 Use the word "hallucinate". 23:46:47 psygnisfive: it kind of appears above my range of eyes 23:46:47 but then 23:46:50 it can appear anywhere 23:46:50 but it inherently has a position in my internal model of space 23:46:52 without being there 23:47:00 it is weird. 23:47:01 Most people can think of images. Most people cannot voluntarily hallucinate them. 23:47:03 well, ehird, i think we should distinguish two things 23:47:08 warrie: of course 23:47:13 i'm asking how they think of them 23:47:15 one: whether it "looks" the same as stuff you see with your eyes 23:47:24 e.g. can you tell whether its an imagined image or a real one 23:47:31 painter can show you the image from his head 23:47:41 and two: whether it necessarily occupies a position in space or not 23:47:50 the two aren't the same 23:48:14 i can imagine something in front of my eyes, in my normal visual field, but its distinguishably not coming from my eyeballs 23:48:27 its the third eye :] 23:48:46 im not entirely sure i can envision it outside of my visual field. perhaps only partially 23:48:52 i had a pretty vivid dream once standing above my bed, i could see the room like plain as day. 23:49:07 but that does make a lot of sense, because visual imagination is _very_ strongly tied into the actual visual cortex of the brain 23:49:08 it happens sometimes 23:49:26 infact, when you visually imagine something, your visual cortex looks exactly as it would if you were actually seeing that thing 23:49:31 psygnisfive: right, I can picture mickey mouse on my deks, but it's very faint 23:49:33 the same goes for other imagination 23:49:36 it's obviously not there, and it's very very faint 23:49:36 to be out of body or not be out of body, that is the question 23:49:45 but 23:49:47 psygnisfive: 23:49:51 instead of trying to project an image 23:49:52 just think of one 23:49:55 just think of the image itself 23:49:58 completely dissociating things from places in the visual field is very difficult i think 23:50:05 it'll appear *nowhere* 23:50:09 and yet it'll seem to appear somewhere 23:50:13 can you imagine a car that you hear on the street and place it on that street nest to your home while you can't see the car because there is a wall? 23:50:13 but you won't be able to place where it is 23:50:14 ehird: well, think of an image, as in "think of the mona lisa" 23:50:14 just htink of an image 23:50:18 psygnisfive: yea 23:50:20 just think of it 23:50:21 or ENVISION the mona lisa 23:50:26 think of it 23:50:31 call up FACTS, or call up VISUALS 23:50:33 and... turn on imaging mode 23:50:34 :P 23:50:35 i dunno 23:50:36 call up visuals 23:50:40 but don't try and project it 23:50:40 * warrie tries to think of his integration by parts picture without it being in any place 23:50:45 just think of the actual image object that represents it 23:51:13 I don't know if I can do it. 23:51:18 it comes naturally to me o.o;; 23:51:25 it's just what happens when i think of an imge. 23:51:26 *image 23:51:32 i can image mona lisa on the wall next to me 23:51:36 ehird: well, we might be experiencing the same thing 23:51:44 or i can imagine it nowhere 23:51:55 but i do think its tied in to a location in visual space 23:51:58 as well 23:51:59 does anyone else have a mind jukebox? i can play full songs in my head at command. 23:52:01 even if you get pinpoint it clearly 23:52:07 ehird: yep 23:52:09 and modify them in any way while they're playing. 23:52:12 it's weird. but fun. 23:52:14 ehird: sometimes yeah. 23:52:22 ehird: how easily can you pick apart chords and such? 23:52:31 ehird: especialy Pink Floyd 23:52:35 i dont have the memory for full songs, but i can occasionally end up almost hearing a song in my head 23:52:40 Do you have absolute pitch? 23:52:41 warrie: not at all; it's just blobs of audio data, except I can imagine a tune and it'll do it 23:52:43 but this is all precisely what you'd expect 23:52:47 i play with it so much that it invented a gui 23:52:48 Mm. 23:52:51 which appears in my no-space above my vision field 23:52:57 it looks basically like winamp or xmms XD 23:53:17 however 23:53:20 when i play back songs in my head 23:53:24 hah, thats fanciful. 23:53:24 I don't hear them through anything 23:53:26 heheh 23:53:27 or even hear in particular 23:53:33 sometimes my inner record play starts skipping :( 23:53:33 i just... the sound is there. 23:53:41 also, it's very low volume 23:53:44 it can't go loud 23:53:48 ehird: yes 23:53:53 this is whats called imagination :P 23:53:54 same as my visual projection is very faint 23:53:55 :P 23:53:55 everyone has that 23:53:57 psygnisfive: i know 23:54:01 i've just always been interested 23:54:06 in the sort of mechanics of it 23:54:09 oh 23:54:16 our subconcious can probably just barely hear "our" end much the same way 23:54:16 well i think its fairly trivial actually 23:54:17 playing Pink Floyd - Dogs, second solo, atm 23:54:17 i.e. how other people percieve it 23:54:19 in terms of cognitive mechanisms 23:54:41 I have absolute pitch (though I can't easily recognize anything except G) and can pick apart chords with some difficulty. I think it would be a little bit cool to be a musical savant or something. 23:54:53 I'm a musical idiot. 23:54:59 i have absolutely no musical knowledge whatsoever, this saddens me :( 23:55:03 being savant is cool 23:55:19 probably. 23:55:54 If you can sing in tune, you're not a musical idiot. Otherwise, we'll need to perform further testing. 23:56:14 warrie: I wouldn't know if I sang in tune. I couldn't tell. 23:56:18 I mean, i'm not tone deaf. 23:56:25 But I wouldn't be able to recognize if I was singing in tune. 23:56:35 Can you recognize if other people are singing in tune? 23:56:38 i can play the tune i imagine on a guitar if it's slow enough 23:56:50 ehird: interestingly, musical knowledge isn't stored in the brain in terms of absolute pitch but rather intervals 23:57:14 and its not stored in as just a single music-score like piece of information but rather a markov-chain-like structure 23:57:15 thats why all those 8bit nintendo loops get recalled in my mind so easilly 23:57:16 nooga: then you're either more talented or more practiced than me. 23:57:19 warrie: yes, that's pretty obvious, I guess 23:57:22 or a linked list sort of structure 23:57:27 also, I'm absolutely, absolutely useless at playing an instrument 23:57:54 ehird: so if someone shifted in key by a little bit between phrases of the national anthem, you'd notice. 23:58:01 warrie: Probably not. 23:58:06 * warrie nods 23:58:41 ehird: have you read anything by dennett or ramachandran? 23:58:55 fraid not. 23:59:13 you should 23:59:14 I once had the opportunity to listen to other-smart-guy sing. I was disappointed at his lack of singing ability. I still wonder whether he thinks like me or not. 23:59:16 lots of good stuff 23:59:20 psygnisfive: kay 23:59:23 dennett: consciousness explained 23:59:28 ramachandran: phantoms in the brain 23:59:44 btw, is there ANY person who hasn't come up with the idea of "what if everyone saw colours different to me - i'd never know"? 23:59:51 absolutely EVERY person i've talked to thought of that at one point in their lives 2008-11-27: 00:00:07 ehird: indeed, and its a nonsensical question to ask :) 00:00:13 ehird: that was more or less settled for me when somebody said we probably perceive colors in the same way. 00:00:19 but it's such a -tempting- question to ask 00:00:26 I don't think it's nonsensical, but I think it's not well-defined. 00:00:27 its a classical philosophical mental experiment 00:00:28 i imagine you'd have to work hard NOT thinking about it :P 00:00:31 dennett actually discusses it 00:00:37 warrie: no it is nonsensical actually 00:00:40 its quite well defined 00:00:44 its just nonsensical 00:00:48 easy to believe sapif-whorf is false. i mean, if i know some complicated concept, and someone asks me how it works, i'll probably just say "read about it", because it's a big effort to translate anything nontrivial to pretty much any language except predicate logic 00:00:56 I'm not sure if it is - "What if you saw what I see as my blue as what I see as my red?" 00:00:59 what if everyone experienced the idea of "what if everyone saw colours different to me - i'd never know" differently? we'd never know 00:00:59 THat seems fairly sensical. 00:01:27 ehird: the question is sensical 00:01:31 the idea isn't. 00:01:33 psygnisfive: when you think of green, one of the things you think of is plants. Do blind people who don't know that plants are green also think of plants when they think of green? 00:01:35 psygnisfive: why not? 00:01:51 And yes, I did just make a blatant assumption about your brain. 00:01:54 warrie: blind people cant think of green, not like we do. 00:02:16 psygnisfive: so blind people cannot imagine colour? 00:02:19 yea 00:02:20 Can they visualize images like you and I? 00:02:24 no 00:02:31 psygnisfive: Even if they could see and then went blind? 00:02:37 They lose their ability to synthesize images in their mind? 00:02:38 well thats different 00:02:38 Ouuuuuuch. 00:02:51 Blind synaesthetes (that's the word, isn't it) can imagine color, surely. 00:03:06 warrie: actually no it depends 00:03:21 in order to envision any sort of color you need an operating visual cortex 00:03:30 specifically, certain subparts of the visual cortex 00:03:38 So you can imagine visuals without it but not colours. 00:03:40 THE BRAIN MAKES SUCH SENSE 00:03:42 some people can get brain damage that makes them color blind 00:04:03 not that they see in black and white, as such 00:04:16 they just lack any hue information in their cognitive representations 00:04:19 yeah 00:04:21 I read an article about that 00:04:22 it was weird 00:04:23 other people can lack brightness information 00:04:45 psygnisfive: so it's as much grayscale as it is blue, red, etc? 00:04:49 i.e. it's none of them? 00:04:52 it's just not a component? 00:04:57 yeah 00:05:00 I really wonder what it looks like for them. 00:05:04 its like HSB minus the HS 00:05:06 But I'll never know unless it happens to me... 00:05:15 you cant imagine tho 00:05:22 thats the thing about what we're talking about 00:05:28 it's funny that eyes really operate in RGB + brightness 00:05:31 thats why the original question is nonsensical 00:05:46 Why is the brain so complicated? :\ 00:05:49 :P 00:05:58 If I went blind due to a cataract, would my ability to think visually be completely unaffected, or enhanced, or something else? 00:06:04 it seems like the EXPERIENCE of red is _nothing more than_ the association between some activation patterns in the visual cortex and some activation patterns related to red things 00:06:11 nooga: RGB being cones, brightness being rods? 00:06:22 AFAIR yes 00:06:25 its a purely structural notion 00:06:50 what it means to experience red is nothing more than conjuring up associations with red things 00:06:55 i have a pretty separate place to see imagined things in 00:07:00 i have problem with my left eye 00:07:01 thats why it makes no sense to ask "what if someone experienced colors differently than me?" 00:07:02 btw... 00:07:08 also i can think them in the real world somewhere 00:07:09 because the associations are all the same 00:07:11 More interestingly, if I were blind from birth due to something wrong with my eyes, would I still have my visual thinking skills? 00:07:12 or rather the nerve 00:07:18 The visuals you get when closing your eyes and rubbing them a lot. 00:07:19 warrie: no 00:07:21 Explain them. 00:07:24 I have a few patterns... 00:07:29 if i'm a bit drunk i can sometimes make them prevent me from seeing behing them 00:07:29 Diagonally-ridged squares, repeating... 00:07:35 Swirling electricy lightning... 00:07:36 the sound sensors of your brain takes over the visual centers 00:07:38 (Yellow) 00:07:43 psygnisfive: would they be replaced with equivalent tactile thinking skills or something? 00:07:43 (my brain is more controlled when i'm drunk) 00:07:46 ehird: phosphenes? 00:08:00 thats just pressure activating the light sensors in your retina 00:08:08 * warrie ponders 00:08:09 umm 00:08:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Phosphene_artistic_depiction.gif Not like this... 00:08:12 It's far more subtle. 00:08:17 psygnisfive: Right, but 00:08:18 warrie: your audio-processing abilities get better 00:08:21 How come I have only like 00:08:24 3-5 patterns in it 00:08:27 and they repeat in cycles? 00:08:36 Another pattern is randomly coloured dots flickering about,. 00:08:45 ehird: who knows. it could just be your brains interpretation of the phosphenes 00:08:55 hey if you wanna experience something REALLY weird 00:08:58 try this: 00:08:59 right but why :P 00:09:01 psygnisfive: I can imagine feeling a solid of revolution just as well as I can imagine seeing one. I don't think I can imagine hearing one, though. 00:09:03 i observe something uncommon 00:09:07 look all the way to the left as far as you can 00:09:22 And touch your eye very gently? 00:09:31 then, with your right hand, press the right most part of your right eye, just next to the right side of your right orbit 00:09:32 yeah 00:09:45 What will happen? 00:09:46 Kind of scared. 00:09:48 :P 00:09:52 Can my right eye be closed? 00:09:52 you can actually see the finger impression 00:09:54 i have neurological problem with my left eye's nerve and sometimes i loose vision in that eye, but it happens in a funny way 00:09:56 yeah it can wrrie 00:09:59 warrie* 00:10:08 Ah, yes. 00:10:10 I see it. 00:10:14 not only that, but the image is in a part of your visual space that you NEVER SEE WITH 00:10:15 Lol, that's fun. How's that work? 00:10:15 first, i see everyhing a bit more vivid with my left eye 00:10:22 ehird: same as pressing your eyes when closed 00:10:27 pressure activates the photosensors 00:10:29 -!- trave_ has joined. 00:10:33 then i loose color depth 00:10:46 Cool. 00:11:01 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:11:10 heres something else you can do 00:11:11 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 00:11:11 and everything looks like in 16 color palette 00:11:13 close one eye 00:11:28 then 00:11:30 to the other eye 00:11:33 and then everything is gray and i can see only bright objects 00:11:44 press gently against your upper or lower eyelid in various places 00:11:54 the imagine in your visual field should shift 00:12:02 and then i can see only black&white flickering grain 00:12:04 nooga: so you're an eye-guy 00:12:17 you just had to get labelled huh? 00:12:17 not like you've looked in a different direction, but rather like someones put weird lenses over your eyes 00:12:30 Doesn't work/ 00:12:41 and then in reverse everything backs to normal 00:12:52 ehird: ey what? 00:12:58 psygnisfive: doesn't work for me 00:13:04 did you do it like i said? :P 00:13:05 wait 00:13:06 yes it does 00:13:07 psygnisfive: isn't that just my eye moving around? 00:13:07 + brain combines that black&white noise with the vision from the right eye 00:13:10 How many of you have ever been blind in part of your central vision? 00:13:16 none. 00:13:18 oklopol: yeah 00:13:18 well, not me 00:13:19 :P 00:13:24 you're just moving your lense around 00:13:31 just making the image appear in different places on your retina 00:13:39 psygnisfive: well of course it works. but yeah that looks pretty fun 00:13:51 the weird part is that the image moves but your eyeball doesnt, so your brain starts going "whoa whoa whoa wtf is all this" 00:14:07 That's happened to me at least twice, I think, as part of a migraine. 00:14:19 I have never had a migrane. Woo. 00:14:23 also interesting, but far more complicated: if you wear glasses that invert your field of vision 00:14:40 invert your field of vision?!? 00:14:43 initially you will be disoriented and itll be hard to interact with the world 00:14:49 ohh 00:14:50 yes, so that the ground is "up" 00:14:57 but after a week or so, youll operate normally 00:15:02 ha 00:15:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:15:08 psygnisfive: really? 00:15:11 how does that work 00:15:16 Kind of interesting, covering visual stimuli with the blind spots and seeing how your brain fills it in. 00:15:18 not only will your operate normally, but you wont be able to tell anything is off 00:15:35 right, i thought you meant like if someone wears inverting glasses because of some problem with eyes :D 00:15:40 no lol 00:15:46 but 00:15:48 but yeah i talked about that here a while ago 00:15:50 psygnisfive: are you sure? 00:15:51 ehird: it works because your brain just remaps all the associations 00:15:52 i really can't imagine doing that 00:15:53 i'm pretty sure ehird was here 00:15:58 horizontally AND vertically inverted 00:15:59 ehird: its been done actually 00:16:05 trave: any inversion. 00:16:13 horiontal, vertical, or a rotation, it doesnt matter 00:16:24 that's not very surprising 00:16:38 your brain just remaps the retinal inputs to fit the way it represents space 00:16:47 i mean, think about it, they're just wires in your brain 00:16:51 psygnisfive: will you see things "the right way" again? 00:17:03 well.. maybe. im not entirely sure. 00:17:05 I think I read about someone who was colorblind and also had synaesthesia. He saw yellows instead of reds and greens, but there were also some stimuli that caused perception of red and green. 00:17:07 but, what i'd like to know is whether you can learn to do the transition fast 00:17:12 i mean, consider this: the image on your retina is ALREADY upside down 00:17:18 my wires going from the left eye are fucked up and tend to loose bandwith 00:17:22 say you invert vision everytime things start to look normal 00:17:27 the surprising idea behind it is just that your brain can eventually rewire itself to automatically respond, without having to cognitavely decide, i want to go up, but i need to point down. 00:17:35 oklopol: probably not 00:17:37 psygnisfive: yeah I don't get that... so... 00:17:41 also interesting: when you take the glasses OFF 00:17:43 is space actually "upside down" to what we see? 00:17:44 i mean... IRL :P 00:17:47 things look upside down to you :) 00:17:50 ehird: no 00:17:57 that question is also nonsensical :) 00:18:04 brb i have to eat 00:18:06 psygnisfive: i'm pretty sure you're wrong, have to test that 00:18:25 you guys should read some dennett and ramachandran 00:18:27 its all very interesting 00:18:29 well 00:19:29 btw ehird: think of the question more like this: 00:19:44 you can rotate an imagine on a graph, and say its upside down 00:20:05 but what does it mean to rotate the graph itself? it means nothing. 00:20:18 which came first, the braincell or the galaxy? 00:20:21 the graph defines space, so it cant be rotated since rotation is a relation with regard to space 00:20:29 ehird: world -> lens -> image upside down -> sensor -> invert in brain -> image of the world as it is 00:20:34 ah, right. 00:20:47 so there is no "world as it is" in terms of up or down 00:20:59 there is just the topology of space 00:21:01 I disappear now. 00:21:05 TOMORROW: More brain fuckery. 00:21:07 and the brain only cares about the topological relations 00:21:07 I hope. 00:21:08 ciao ;D 00:21:36 but the gravity 00:21:53 have you seen those side-by photo comparisons between galaxies and braincells? they are like 2 peas in a pod. 00:22:04 trave: it's just happy coincidence 00:22:38 okay. :] 00:22:43 well, IMO 00:22:43 :) 00:22:51 bye, see you all tomorrow 00:22:59 goodbye 00:23:20 i saw a fractal that looked exactly like nebula 00:23:50 I was going to say that I can no longer think of a mathematical formula (as in those things they teach you individually in math class) that I can't visualize, but then I realize I've never really tried to visualize d(h/l) = (ldh - hdl)/l^2. 00:25:35 trave: i haven't seen link 00:25:53 warrie: stop with the calculus, calculus is borign 00:26:01 *borign 00:26:04 *borign 00:26:05 *boring 00:26:07 ... 00:26:54 -!- trave_ has joined. 00:27:28 trave_: i haven't seen link 00:27:47 guh? 00:28:00 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:28:07 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 00:28:08 ...side-by photo comp... 00:28:19 oh, i'll go see if i can track it down, one sec 00:28:26 thanks 00:28:30 i don't like googolin 00:28:32 g 00:28:45 nooga: like http://www.superliminal.com/fractals/bbrot/island200.500.1000bb.jpg? 00:29:44 http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/neuron-galaxy.jpg 00:30:54 trave: the main similarity is that there are stringy things with clumps along them. 00:31:04 hehe 00:31:12 exarctly 00:31:49 warrie: OR we're just part of some larger guy's brain? 00:31:53 everything down to the atomic level has way more gaps between "things" than there are things. 00:31:54 think about THAT 00:32:00 warrie: not that one 00:32:32 warrie: but quite simmilar 00:32:38 oklopol: I don't think brain particles slowly drift toward other brain particles due to gravity. :-) 00:33:50 every object has a gravity field 00:33:55 warrie: no, the interactions are faster. this guy thinks very slowly. 00:34:05 in our time scale 00:34:34 you know, actually we die because our brain collapses into singularity when we grow old. 00:34:46 nooga: yes, but intracranial gravity is overwhelmed by electromagnetic noise. 00:35:04 ah, right 00:36:14 * warrie ponders gravity at small scales 00:36:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3AmC9tNDro 00:37:11 "Pickover attractor 10 mln vertices 30 FPS 00:37:14 I've decided that at small scales, in a liquid, gravity is equivalent to the pressure gradient it causes. 00:37:39 i wonder on what machine 00:40:13 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 00:40:15 again 00:40:18 2 o'clock 00:40:23 almost 00:40:48 i guess i'll just fall asleep immediately 00:40:52 g night 00:40:59 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 00:44:44 back desu yo 00:44:47 gravity? 00:44:50 at small scales?! 00:44:51 DONT DO IT! 00:47:15 have they fixed the LHC yet? when are they gonna collide me some particles? 00:47:23 trave: no. 00:47:31 they're going to do their first collision early sprinh 09 00:47:51 that leak was a huge setback 00:47:56 yes it was. 00:48:19 a lot of the setback is safety checks tho 00:48:39 i mean, if containment fails during a run, thats really bad 00:49:01 and you'll probably kill someone 00:49:03 in attempt to prevent other crazies like that girl who committed suicide cause she thought we were all going to be sucked into its black hole? 00:49:13 no 00:49:22 im in support of people killing themselves if they're that stupid 00:49:34 hopefully she did this before she had little baby idiots, yes? 00:49:48 wasnt it like.. some indian girl? 00:49:51 im not sure 00:50:06 geez, why not just wait until IT kills you, sheesh 00:50:28 trave: exactly 00:50:32 well 00:50:34 it depends 00:50:44 i mean, obviously SHE was stupid and didnt think about that 00:51:12 bbut if she knew why black holes were fucked up, it makes more sense to kill yourself now than be sucked into one 00:51:23 but if you understood that much about black holes, you wouldn't be worried about the LHC. 00:51:29 I personally think that the transition into a black hole is without effect to the one experiencing it 00:51:40 well you're wrong 00:51:41 you'd die 00:51:44 very quickly, actually 00:51:53 in the coolest way imaginable. but also the most horrifying. 00:52:04 its the observer who witnesses the "death" 00:52:10 no 00:52:14 its the dier. 00:52:22 the observer probably never would witness it 00:52:25 due to time dilation 00:52:31 http://fora.tv/2008/02/19/Neil_DeGrasse_Tyson_Death_by_Black_Hole 00:52:41 hm, just making outlandish assumptions :] 00:52:52 (in reference to me) 00:53:02 you're also not familiar with relativity ;) 00:53:32 time slows down with greater gravitational effects. so from the outside, someone closer to the black hole moves slower 00:54:47 well if the point of relevance is my conscious, perhaps the matter around me being visually stretched into oblivion to an outside observer is painless? 00:55:14 but you'd be stretched to oblivion along with it 00:55:17 watch the video :p 00:56:14 listening now.. 00:57:08 this guy, tyson, is like an astrophysics popstar 00:57:17 i just dont particularly believe that black holes are as destructive as they are labeled, there is one at the center of every galaxy. :D 00:57:40 he was a guest star on stargate recently 00:57:46 well 00:57:46 its a creative force via its "destructive" nature. 00:57:55 destructive as they're labeled by COMMON FOLK 00:58:02 or destructive as labeled by PHYSICISTS? 00:58:23 because the commonfolk think that black holes will just suck anything and everything in to them period end of story 00:58:32 for instance 00:58:38 if you said to a normal average person 00:58:50 i guess myself being a simple minded individual, i likely relate to that level of thought 00:58:50 that the sun is going to be compressed into a black hole 00:58:53 they would freak out 00:59:03 and say omg we have to stop it, the earth will get sucked in and we'll all die! 00:59:17 whereas a physicist would say, omg we have to stop it, the earth will freeze over without the heat from the sun 00:59:32 because the physicist knows that the gravity from the sun-cum-blackhole would be unchanged 00:59:46 whereas the lay person things that the gravity will all of the sudden because infinitely unstoppable 01:00:56 this is why people are worried about black holes at the LHC 01:01:06 and at Brookhaven before that 01:01:21 they think that the moment you create a black whole of ANY size, whoomf, everything gets sucked in 01:03:18 yea. 01:05:18 also, i just messaged him on facebook asking him about whether or not naked singularities were blackholes or not 01:05:38 :D 01:05:46 we is friends on facebook. :D 01:06:15 cool. :] Ive run across one of his videos before, forget what it was about though 01:07:32 this asteroid scenario hes talking about is creepy :D 01:07:44 :) 01:08:41 o 01:08:50 oko 01:10:38 "we got peeps who do this" 01:10:54 what are your thoughts on illuminati/skull and bones type brotherhoods? 01:10:55 "peeps... if you're over 30... means people.. forgive me" 01:10:55 XD 01:10:58 i love NdGT 01:14:04 * oklopol can not has sound :< 01:14:09 must watch tomorrow that. 01:15:12 i've been unproductive all week :< 01:17:16 same here 01:17:23 its a holiday week 01:17:52 holidays make really no diff to me 01:18:08 i don't go to lectures that regularly 01:18:21 me either, other than an additional reason for my laziness 01:19:04 holidays are no excuse not to study 01:19:12 study / create 01:19:28 its true, i just look for excuses 01:19:29 *procreate 01:19:50 yeah i guess that's pretty common 01:20:04 in fact, i only said that because i wanted you to tell me you're doing nothing productive either. 01:20:08 :) 01:21:06 i've recently been pretty scared by the fact i'm probably not the worlds best at everything i'm good at. 01:21:35 that's a very scary thought 01:21:43 that there's a human being out there that owns me. 01:21:55 everyone has nitches of talents, i think its more important to learn how to leverage on eachothers strengths, instead of everyone trying to perform as one man bands 01:22:37 the ones that own us are the bankers via our bank account balances 01:22:58 trave: no no you got it all wrong, life is all about being the superior individual averaged over relevant talents for some definition of relevant. 01:23:10 and how easilly willing we are to agree to wildly unfair fees and rates 01:24:13 trave: by own i mean pwn 01:24:30 ah, yes. 01:25:10 i am innerly accutely aware of my pwndness, but outwardly have to present myself to my boss as one who pwns 01:25:41 talent is highly bound to time. 01:26:20 but time and effort are ruled by interest and entertainment 01:26:26 pwnage inside a small group like a company is trivial, the hard part is being better than all the savants with some kinda mental issues out there. 01:27:44 i like to imagine that after death, existing as higher conciousness, we are able to process some crazy statistics on history 01:28:19 i envisioned something like that as a kid 01:28:22 there will be like a ubergoogle, that you can type: who got laid by the most chicks with freckles 01:28:38 heh 01:28:59 i've only been laid by a few chicks with freckles :| 01:29:04 should probably aid that 01:29:17 trave: are you by any chance a girl with freckles? 01:29:29 no. 01:29:36 damn. 01:29:40 for a second there i had a great idea 01:29:42 but nm 01:30:12 -!- trave_ has joined. 01:30:18 err 01:30:26 man, my wireless routers signal is so weak 01:30:29 you were the one that came in today for some other meaning of "esoteric"? 01:30:33 yes i notice 01:30:46 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:30:56 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 01:31:02 yea. 01:31:37 i have a pretty good memory for nicks, but it's somewhat vague for new ones. 01:31:56 actually a better memory for nicks than real names 01:32:53 so 01:32:58 have you ever had like a math course 01:33:19 where something was told without a clear definition, and then there's a question about it that's trivial, and just requires a formal proof. 01:33:36 but you can't be formal, because that part wasn't given a formal definition 01:34:27 (or at least you hadn't read the materials that well, and are pretty sure there wasn't a good definition somewhere!) 01:35:41 my level of math was highschool algebra 01:35:52 i hate proving trivial things, seems like such a waste to do the manual labor of finding a proof in the language the problem is given in, when my intuitive gadgets are clearly superior 01:38:08 trave: mine is that plus some additional calculus, incidetally calculus is so uninteresting i don't really care for knowing it. 01:38:14 *incidentally 01:39:40 i'm running out of random things to say 01:39:51 probably should retry sleeping or program something 01:40:28 is calc mainly for like statistical processing? im not even really aware of all the different types besides geometry 01:41:20 its like ways of finding out levels of force needed to push a block over another block, an junk? 01:41:23 well actually analysis, which afaiu is a superset of calculus; basically about infinite continuous things. 01:41:45 and what it's for is not a well-formed question 01:41:52 it's a set of concepts 01:42:00 yea 01:42:29 i have no idea about applications for physics 01:42:53 the complexity of all potentials baffles my mind sometimes to the point where it feels almost pointless because of all the points. 01:42:57 well, i could probably do quite well with intuition, but i don't actually know anything. 01:43:16 "all potentials"? 01:43:33 also nice use of "point" there 01:44:20 hrm, like needing to juggle too many balls i guess rather, i need to fine tune my target items for attention, i feel too scattered sometimes that i dont take care of anything instead. 01:44:58 and chat on IRC all day instead of working :D 01:45:00 are you referring to subjects having too much content to be learnable, or wha 01:45:36 um just abstractly as always, more really about my lifes responsibilities, like taxes, and insurance and rent, and projects, and etc. 01:46:14 really there isnt all THAT much, its just laying them out on a scale, and only observing one at a time, instead of being overwhelmed 01:46:56 taxes, insurance and rent take, taken together, about -0.00% of your time. 01:47:18 (negative sign and the floating point representation for emphasis) 01:47:41 i have a tendency to let things slide because there is too much to do, where instead, regardless of what item i pick up, picking up something is infinitely more productive. 01:48:05 the beast feeds on negligence 01:48:08 yes, true 01:48:33 what i do is i don't give a shit if things get done, i just take a random thing and start doing it. 01:48:56 of course only refers to studying and other mental exercise, or some kinda project for the fun of it. 01:49:00 captialism counts on the public's laziness, to bind them into the "punishing" contract 01:49:08 my life doesn't really contain much of that real stuff 01:49:19 as is my life. 01:49:48 but im finding it to be more critical to resolve my past neglects before the axe comes down. :] 01:50:32 which in itself feels pointless, because money is so arbitrary, like this whole bailout fiasco, why do they get bailed out for designing such a self defeating model of commerce? 01:50:32 i don't care about the past/future 01:51:05 trave: hard to say, i don't watch pokemon 01:52:07 anyway, money isn't really something one needs to work for, i mean, the amount of money you get from one month of working will pretty much pay for a whole year. 01:52:13 i think that there are some deep rooted secret brotherhood methodologies of fear and control of the ignorant 01:53:31 used by whom? 01:53:36 money is only a frustration in my life, the girl i married burns it, and i am left with the shame of not having enough to pay to my owners 01:53:56 the men behind the curtains. 01:55:09 much like a movie director or whatever, they are not the puppets speaking the eloquent lines of verse to the public, they are calling some carefully planned moves in the chess match of world power, 01:55:11 i'm pretty ignorant, and i'm sure as hell controlled by no one. 01:55:36 not being able to pay is not a shame if you have a reason you yourself deem good enough. 01:57:11 applies for anything really, no need to feel something if it's not useful. 01:57:26 controlling the masses through Gold, Oil, and Drugs, you don't have to imprison the people in physical walls. 01:57:40 in G.O.D. we trust 01:57:49 i don't know what "controlling the masses" means. 01:58:03 but that's clever, probably a well-known backronym? 01:58:49 anyway, i don't think i'd be "controlled" in any way were i incarcerated. 01:59:07 in fact that would make my life more free, right now i'm controlled by my loose network of friends. 01:59:50 control over the wallet, stomach, and mind? 02:00:01 you can't control mind 02:00:07 religion is control of the mind 02:00:20 controlling wallet and stomach is only control if you care about those 02:00:21 not everyone is trapped in that, but MANY i know are. :] 02:00:22 well yeah 02:00:35 brb 02:00:46 but religious people are idiots, in my eyes they are an artifact of the past. 02:01:23 and while i do care about how much money i have, if i felt i had little money, i would stop caring. just like i like moving around, but if i lost my legs i'd just do more thinking. 02:01:33 ultimately it's only the mind that is needed for happiness. 02:01:55 well, not sure i could do without any IO :o 02:02:07 guess i'm not perfect in that way 02:02:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:02:15 hi Slereah 02:02:17 who are you? 02:03:24 i wish there were more channels i could rant on. 02:03:41 but i just have finnish chans where i wouldn't get kb'd, and those are asleep :| 02:09:45 ive got a headache and really need to close this laptop. it was a pleasure chatting with you fellas though 02:09:49 i will be back. 02:09:53 have a good night 02:11:51 nights. 02:12:43 maybe you'll even see a short conversation about esolangs if you hang around long enough. 02:12:51 hmm, i'll try sleeping too -> 02:13:49 <- 02:13:51 speaking of which 02:14:01 i just had an epiphany about noprob 02:14:04 cut! :DD 02:14:09 basically 02:14:20 i removed probability variables, because they made no sense. 02:14:32 now, all variables have a "probability" 02:14:57 meaning "the portion of models for the 3sat instance where that variable is true" 02:15:13 this, and only this can be used for conditional things 02:15:27 the problem is, when you add new clauses, all probabilities change 02:15:55 but, i could just have prolog's cut, or a similar thing, doesn't really fit the paradigm, but it's very practical, and prology :P 02:16:31 really all it needs to do it fix probabilities. 02:17:30 which will get pretty complicated if you use those variables in further clauses, because other variables will have their probabilities calculated on the probabilities of the fixed variables, instead of the assumed 50% chance for (as yet) undefined variables 02:18:18 probably not making any sense, but i'm pretty sure i have something that works right here, so maybe you'll be seeing specs in like five years from now? may be a bit optimistic 02:18:20 but anyway 02:18:27 sleep, hopefully no ideas this time -> 02:19:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:20:29 Hmph. I just went to the web site of the Triple Nine Society. It said this: "Hey, come and join us! We have smart people, and you're smart enough to join! Oh, wait, you're not 18 or older? Go away." 02:27:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:30:42 -!- trave has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:35:58 hmm 02:36:01 what a peculiar tea 02:36:49 Is it made from tree bark? 02:37:01 no 02:37:04 its called russian caravan 02:37:16 its smokey 02:37:27 like.. smoked sausages 02:39:16 i joke that its called "russian caravan" because they get it from the back Evgeny's town-and-country 02:45:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:05:01 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:06:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:34:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ayyPzuHGNU 03:57:35 -!- psygnisf_ has joined. 04:00:05 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive_. 04:13:38 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:14:44 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:16:39 -!- Asztal has joined. 04:26:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:27:48 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 04:27:51 fresh off the press http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:JayCampbell/smatiny.rb 04:28:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:31:00 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:36:54 JSMIPS can pwd 8-D 04:39:16 you know 04:39:21 the greatest testament to ubuntu 04:39:38 is that ive installed it on my grandparents computer and they've been using it for 5 months now without any issues. 04:41:09 -!- psygnisfive_ has changed nick to psygnisfive. 04:41:51 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:49:28 # /hello 04:49:28 Hello, world! 04:50:02 observation: natural language is the programming language of the human mind 04:50:10 and it looks a lot like intercal 04:54:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:55:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:58:35 That's not an observation. 04:58:39 It's a postulation. 05:01:13 yes well 05:01:56 And so's your face. 05:14:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:22:17 Anybody want to help me make an AJAX filesystem for JSMIPS? 05:39:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:56:38 ajax to where 05:57:13 $YOUR_FAVORITE_WEB_SERVER 05:57:54 i can help on the server end 05:58:09 you want maybe php for ubiquity 05:58:54 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 05:58:55 maybe permission metadata stored in a yaml dotfile 05:59:26 or JSON'd outside the served document root 06:07:01 No permission data necessary. 06:07:08 I just want an entire directory to be readable. 06:07:10 (No write) 06:10:21 oh then you don't need a server end 06:11:40 ORLY? 06:11:49 I thought AJAX couldn't read binaries. 06:14:13 uuencode it 06:14:34 will you know the filenames beforehand? 06:14:56 it will be hard to parse directory listing output from joe random web server (if indexes are even turned on) 06:15:21 so you'd want a php, or a file-of-files, or hardcoded paths 06:16:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:20:46 which is why gopher is a better choice! 06:25:06 -!- Asztal has quit ("."). 06:35:53 lol 06:50:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:50:46 -!- ehird has changed nick to Sgeo. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 09:18:31 -!- Corun has joined. 09:24:03 -!- jix has joined. 09:37:49 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:05:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:07:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:07:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:10:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:19:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:25:56 -!- jix has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 10:32:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:37:56 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:50:36 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:36:24 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:57:41 -!- nooga has joined. 13:00:28 ;9 13:09:18 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ehird. 13:24:21 i really want a nextcube and a bebox. 13:24:24 :| 13:25:02 obsolete, awesome technology is... um, awesome. 13:26:25 also, i could run the original WorldWideWeb app. 13:26:30 on a nextcube,. 13:26:44 i'd need a slick black and white crt for the true experience, though :-P 13:56:02 lawl 13:56:36 i always liked those green phosphor displays 13:56:48 or those simple, orange lcds 13:59:05 actually, the only pretty CRT i've ever seen = next to a nextube 13:59:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Premier_serveur_Web.jpeg 14:04:12 what is that machine? 14:13:22 -!- Asztal has joined. 14:13:31 nooga: a NeXTcube 14:13:41 on which the first browser was first coded 14:13:50 it's the company steve jobs made when he was fired from apple 14:14:08 modern os x is based on NeXTStep with a kinky love affair of other unixes and older macs 14:14:14 oh 14:14:24 the comp in that machine is the first web server 14:14:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTstation.jpg 'nother one 14:14:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTSTEP_desktop.jpg nextstep 14:19:54 looks like blackbox 14:20:17 the WM? 14:20:23 it predates blackbox, iirc 14:20:30 late 80s - early 90s 14:20:33 but yeah 14:20:36 it does kind of look similar 14:21:44 BeOS is also awesome and defunct... it's like the amiga, except modern and better... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BeOS_Desktop.png ... and the bebox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeBox 14:21:47 shame they went defunct 14:21:52 their browser's errors were haiku :-) 14:23:29 yeah 14:23:36 BeOS has cool API 14:24:27 when we were trying to write distributed RTOS we almost copied BeOS API 14:25:02 of course, the best computer is the smalltalk-based computer i will one day [not] make ;) 14:25:10 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:26:04 smalltalk based computer? :D 14:26:42 how would that look like? 14:26:59 nooga: like a computer, i guess :) Smalltalk is basically an OS... 14:27:12 just doesn't work well as the only one, obviously, because it's not used for that 14:27:19 still, it wouldn't be especially hard 14:27:21 and it would be nice 14:36:08 but you mean a CPU specially built for smalltalk as a smalltalk computer? 14:36:13 or just a smalltalk OS 14:36:16 for PC 14:36:16 both 14:36:26 a machine built for smalltalk running a specially-crafted smalltalk OS 14:36:32 it would be awesome. 14:36:58 FPGA and set to work :D 14:37:16 bah, it was awesome until you talked about work 14:37:17 :-) 14:43:47 what is this whole smalltalk about? 14:43:50 how does it work? 14:59:11 ha, running haiku in qemu 15:09:50 nooga: smalltalk invented quite a few things and perfected others. 15:10:01 it invented model-view-controller in its original GUI 15:10:13 it perfected message-sending object orientation, from simula, except way better 15:10:29 it perfected a blend of simplistic syntax yet easy to read - 15:10:43 syntax on a postcard: 15:11:37 nooga: http://web.archive.org/web/20080129122256/http://www.esug.org/whyusesmalltalktoteachoop/smalltalksyntaxonapostcard/ 15:11:42 [[they reorganized their site :\]] 15:11:54 and also 15:12:09 it just about perfected automatic and manual refactoring, and code editing 15:12:11 with its object browser 15:12:14 no files 15:12:20 it's a great, great language and system 15:12:57 also 15:12:59 finally 15:13:06 nooga: it invented complete access at almost every leve 15:13:06 l 15:13:15 you can view the source to all methods on Object, add them, change them 15:13:21 some are optimized out, e.g. ifTrue:/ifFalse: 15:13:25 and some have in them 15:13:28 but that's very few 15:16:19 that example is undecipherable 15:16:45 nooga: that example isn't meaningful 15:16:48 it's just all the syntax 15:16:49 also 15:16:52 the first bit is a comment 15:17:04 anyway 15:17:09 it's a bit obscure because it's not very useful :-P 15:17:15 the point is, tohugh 15:17:19 that that is -all- the smalltalk syntax 15:17:23 except for special stuff like primitives 15:19:31 rotfl 15:19:37 Squeak is developed by Disney 15:23:48 nahhhhh 15:23:51 used to be 15:24:04 its an open source thing now 15:24:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:25:30 peculiar 15:25:34 ooks like a toy 15:25:56 the default gui is ugly. 15:25:59 it can be improved massively. 15:26:11 i read about smalltalk and it's features 15:26:26 and it turns out that ruby has almost all of them too 15:26:33 not the important ones 15:26:39 it basically borrows some of the object model 15:26:56 but it does not have the complete object garden or the immensely powerful environment 15:27:02 or, indeed, a lot of the elegance 15:27:06 since ruby is a lot more "normal" 15:27:37 i like ruby. but it can't touch smalltalk 15:30:15 hee 15:30:42 modern smalltalk is a bit of a walled garden, but it's ok 15:30:54 you can access the network and the filesystem, maybe even hook up to devices 15:30:58 from there you can basically import stuff in 15:31:17 right now i'm deciding what the best way is to get smalltalk to call a block on incoming mail 15:31:26 prolly something with comsatd 15:34:03 is smalltalk needed in the industry? 15:34:55 like what? it is used quite a lot by companies, esp. in the financial industry for some reaosn 15:34:57 *reason 15:35:02 and it's resurging in popularity a bit 15:35:12 quite a bit thanks to the seaside continuation web framework - http://seaside.st 15:36:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:44:32 leeks very web2.0-ish 15:44:58 not really 15:45:05 just the site does 15:45:37 it basically came from deliberately doing the opposite of everyone else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside_(software)#Philosophy_of_Seaside 15:47:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:48:29 -!- espernet has joined. 15:49:04 is it not MVC? 15:49:56 NOPE. 15:49:58 err 15:50:00 capslock 15:50:01 XD 15:53:37 CAPSLOCK IS CRUISECONTROL FOR COOL 16:05:45 CRUISECONTROL? 16:09:55 KROOZKONTROL 16:18:44 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 16:49:22 Hm. 16:49:35 The Orc manual has BNF syntax. 16:49:40 I liek it 16:50:21 String: "orc", "ceci n'est pas une |" 16:50:23 Heh 16:56:50 JSMIPS has ls 8-D 16:57:05 Admittedly, 'ls' isn't the most impressive of utilities ... 16:57:06 BUT STILL 16:58:27 Next step: bash. Then ... THE WORLD 16:59:10 What, even that really smelly country? 17:00:00 Psssst ... this is where you're supposed to say "You know the one I mean." 17:00:31 Only if I was a nerd quoting Futurama! 17:00:35 Which... I guess I am 17:02:08 GregorR: link 17:02:26 ehird: Not uploaded yet X-P 17:02:27 for everyone else: http://codu.org/jsmips// 17:02:40 hey GregorR, does it run plan9 yet???? 17:02:53 JSMIPS IS AN OS IT DOES NOT RUN OSES *slap* 17:03:03 GregorR it is not a good os it needs plan 9 power. 17:03:15 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:03:22 btw, does backspace work yet 17:03:22 >_< 17:03:26 or ctrl-h 17:03:27 or ANYTHING 17:03:50 * ehird forkbombs his browser. 17:03:55 heh. 17:03:56 it halts. 17:04:14 It's a halting problem 17:04:53 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:02 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:11 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S face. 17:05:14 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:23 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S MOM'S face. 17:05:29 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your DAD'S face. 17:05:39 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S MOM'S MOM'S face. 17:05:46 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your DAD'S MOM'S DAD'S face. 17:06:04 My dad's mom's dad is dead D'8 17:06:06 *sobs* 17:06:14 -!- espernet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:06:27 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:06:52 Ohhhhhhhhhhhh 17:06:54 Well played. 17:06:57 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:07:22 -!- trave has joined. 17:07:57 heylo trave 17:08:14 hey ther :] 17:25:40 ehird i don't know 17:25:47 i said that in ##nomic. 17:25:49 but, darn. 17:26:00 o 17:29:02 GregorR, nice work on jsmips, yes I know it isn't an emulator, but an OS emulator rather 17:29:18 as in emulating a linux(?) system on MIPS 17:29:30 It is an emulator :P 17:29:45 It's emulating the MIPS chip, just not a full MIPS system. 17:29:47 GregorR, so the goal is to to run any linux binaries for MIPS? 17:29:52 No. 17:29:55 no? 17:30:01 Just vaguely UNIXish programs compiled for JSMIPS. 17:30:19 GregorR, oh not real mips binaries? 17:30:27 Real MIPS binaries for a fake MIPS system. 17:30:29 also what is the compiler you use? 17:30:33 ah 17:30:41 GCC 17:30:59 GregorR: nice monologue 17:31:02 GregorR, what about porting wget to it? 17:31:11 or is network stack too hard in js? 17:31:25 A true network stack would be impossible. 17:31:30 well yeah 17:31:33 (Seeing as that JS can't network) 17:31:38 I was planning on making an ajax.h 17:31:42 hm 17:31:45 ok 17:31:53 'ts about the best I can do network-wise. 17:31:56 GregorR, can't you run javascript free standing? 17:31:58 Networked apps really aren't my goal :P 17:32:00 outside a browser 17:32:04 GregorR: you can do proper network stacks 17:32:11 I'm pretty sure there is some such thing 17:32:12 make it ajax to a proxy php script 17:32:14 Yeah, but I don't know if such implementations have (compatible) network stacks. 17:32:16 that does proper tcp/ucp 17:32:18 ehird: Blech :P 17:32:20 and uuencode stuff either way 17:32:22 kjscmd? 17:32:24 GregorR: yeah but 17:32:26 you could run irssi 17:32:28 and firefox 17:32:30 yep 17:32:30 just 17:32:32 think about it. 17:32:35 seems to use konqueror 17:32:47 ehird: Yeah, I'll be running Firefox in JS any day now :P 17:32:50 GregorR, also what did ehird said? he is on ignore 17:33:06 AnMaster: You're on his /ignore too, enjoy this disjunct discourse. 17:33:07 GregorR: YES YOU WILL 17:33:13 true 17:33:24 AnMaster is a fat stinky poo poo who cannot see this 17:33:28 ^ 1337 h4x0r skillz 17:33:35 oklopol: what do you mean, cheesecake? 17:33:35 GregorR, so what was the issue then? 17:34:04 Which issue? 17:34:28 that made you say "blech" 17:35:02 GregorR, I can't run ls... 17:35:14 tried at http://codu.org/jsmips/sh.html 17:35:30 AnMaster: I haven't pushed my most recent changes, they're a bit ... complicated and far-reaching :P 17:35:36 ah 17:35:45 GregorR, what is wrong with making that public? 17:36:28 AnMaster: Nothing, it'll just take me a few minutes and I'm lazy ;) 17:36:42 hm ok 17:36:45 tell me when it is done 17:46:25 http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html 17:46:30 Now with 100% more ls 8-D 17:49:10 (BTW, the long load time when you first load up the page and when you firs type 'ls' is the AJAX more than the actual software) 17:50:28 unsupported syscall 59 17:50:31 at 4204784! 17:50:44 GregorR: totally rad. 17:50:46 :P 17:51:02 What did you do to get that? 17:51:09 Pressed "start mips". 17:51:17 It seems to be working now. 17:51:24 With some unimplemented syscall stuff. 17:51:29 Ignore those ;) 17:51:38 Hmph. 17:51:39 No cat. 17:52:09 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:52:11 17:52:11 MIPS stopped 17:52:11 17:52:11 17:52:11 17:52:12 17:52:14 17:52:16 17:52:18 GregorR: Wow, "bin/sh" works. 17:52:19 hm 17:52:20 wtf 17:52:21 AnMaster: Thanks. 17:52:23 * ehird nests 17:52:33 GregorR, copy paste failed 17:52:33 ehird: DATS RITE BITCH 17:52:38 GregorR, not my fault, rather that of the page 17:52:39 IT GOES ON 4 EVA 17:52:45 you can't copy paste the output 17:52:47 AnMaster: Yeah, I'm forced to keep focus on an invisible input element ... 17:53:03 AnMaster: You can get it by clicking on the text box "full-line input for ..." 17:53:04 GregorR, anyway I get a unimplemented syscall and then mips exited 17:53:18 when I press start 17:53:20 AnMaster: Browser? 17:53:28 GregorR, firefox 2.something 17:53:41 AnMaster: OK, copy the output using the trick I just said :P 17:53:47 Unsupported syscall 59 at 4204784 17:53:47 MIPS exit 17:53:48 that 17:54:06 happens every time 17:54:16 Maybe it's just a script reloading issue? 17:54:29 you mean cache? 17:54:31 Could be ... ctrl+shift+r 17:54:32 Yeah 17:54:32 Yes. 17:54:35 ah yes 17:54:37 Unimplemented syscall: sigaltstack 17:54:37 sigaltstack(2) failed with: Not supported 17:54:37 Unimplemented syscall: tcgetattr 17:54:37 now 17:55:09 http://codu.org/jsmips/server/dir.php im in ur code, looking at yer code 17:55:22 ehird: You realize that JS code is generated, right? 17:55:25 Yes. 17:55:27 GregorR, backspace is broken 17:55:33 AnMaster: I'm well aware :P 17:55:43 http://codu.org/jsmips/server/dir.php?f=./bin/sh 17:55:47 GregorR, what is dir.php btw? 17:55:49 /4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAHQ 17:56:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:56:14 AnMaster: It allows access via AJAX to the JSMIPS filesystem. 17:56:21 GregorR, ah 17:56:27 when will you implement rm? 17:56:35 since ls shows dir.php 17:56:40 gregor, that was quick 17:56:53 jayCampbell: Only because I used the simplest solution possible :P 17:57:09 AnMaster: Even when I implement rm, you won't be able to remove things from the server :P 17:57:29 GregorR, odd set doesn't list PATH=/bin 17:57:36 -!- Mony has joined. 17:57:41 GregorR, :P 17:58:07 plop 17:58:17 GregorR, what sh is this? 17:58:30 since it doesn't accept export FOO=bar 17:58:33 it wants: 17:58:35 FOO=bar 17:58:38 export FOO 17:58:51 haven't seen a sh like that for long 17:58:51 AnMaster: heirloom sh 17:58:59 ah 17:59:05 that quite explains it 17:59:15 :P 17:59:20 Easier to compile on wonko systems ;) 17:59:36 I made bash compile but it doesn't run >_O 17:59:38 GregorR, I hope this will become POSIX.1-2008 certified some day ;) 17:59:42 lol 17:59:45 just for the laughs yeah 18:00:05 GregorR, why is there no libc btw? 18:00:09 or is everything static? 18:00:13 Everything is static. 18:00:17 ah 18:00:23 I didn't want to write a DYNAMIC ELF loader in JS :P 18:00:28 GregorR, is the server side source of it public? 18:00:33 Yeah. 18:00:37 It's in the hg repo 18:00:43 ah cool where is that repo? 18:00:56 https://codu.org/projects/jsmips/hg/ 18:01:05 as a data point, this is firefox on XP running system.html: 18:01:08 ehird # ehird 18:01:08 J>Murphy # J 18:01:08 J # Murphy 18:01:08 ehird>J>Murphy # Teucer 18:01:08 Murphy # Codae 18:01:08 Wooble>J>Murphy # Wooble 18:01:10 J>Murphy>Wooble # 0x44 18:01:12 ehird>J>Murphy # ais523 18:01:14 oops 18:01:26 jayCampbell: This is why middle-button pasting is retarded. 18:01:27 wtf 18:01:44 also: middle mouse pasting rocks 18:01:45 I use it 18:02:02 no, it's because jsmips won't let me copy 18:02:04 so yes ehird would hate it (he isn't on ignore atm) 18:02:09 jayCampbell, ah same issue 18:02:15 see GregorR suggestion 18:02:21 jayCampbell: That's needed. 18:02:28 If anybody has a solution, that'd rock. I don't have one though :( 18:02:35 GregorR: it's not really possible 18:02:39 i coded that fancy input 18:02:42 soooooo 18:02:42 :P 18:02:48 ^^ 18:02:50 I recall that :P 18:02:57 that's why it sucks, AnMaster, btw 18:02:58 i wrote it 18:02:58 :D 18:03:04 obviously my bad influence 18:03:07 system.html in firefox on XP: http://shup.com/Shup/86338/screencap-Mozilla-Firefox-108102710221.png 18:03:12 i hate COPYING AND PASTING 18:03:13 type it out like a REAL MAN 18:03:22 -!- trave has quit (Connection timed out). 18:03:23 jayCampbell: yeah and? :P 18:03:39 a datapoint for debugging, stfu 18:03:57 debugging what 18:04:01 that's expected output. 18:04:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:04:10 that's what we all get 18:04:17 alrighty then 18:04:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:05:02 but mine has a SCREENSHOT 18:05:08 Hey, I've got a solution 8-D 18:05:13 (To the input thing) 18:05:28 GregorR, oh? 18:05:29 GregorR: what is it? 18:05:31 i'll tell you why it doesn't work 18:05:40 I just made it focus when you click on the
18:05:46 And it certainly seems to work :P 18:05:49 well, that's a boring solution. 18:05:49 :P 18:05:56 GregorR: but 18:06:00 what about clicking a button 18:06:04 you should be able to type right after 18:06:10 better solution: unfocus when you click on blank spac 18:06:10 e 18:06:13 All three buttons cause it to refocus. 18:06:19 ah 18:06:36 now GregorR 18:06:40 do i have to implement backspace? 18:06:41 :P 18:06:49 and cursor positioning. 18:07:02 Yes. 18:07:03 :P 18:07:07 fuck you 18:07:07 :) 18:07:08 :D 18:07:16 btw, i just copied the screen easily 18:07:19 select screen, edit->copy 18:07:27 of course, i doubt AnMaster has any menus 18:07:33 being h a r d c o r e 18:10:20 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:14:16 -!- Asztal has joined. 18:15:58 right I gave ehird a chance off the ignore and he just insulted again 18:16:00 *shrug* 18:36:16 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TMwO9PX4_7c 18:39:57 -!- olsner has joined. 18:42:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:44:23 -!- warrie has joined. 18:45:45 warrie, smatiny.rb runs 18:46:00 despite calling it smanity most of the way through development 18:46:04 hi ais523 18:47:41 I just multiplied the number of binaries by ~a gagillion 18:48:11 How much is a gagilion? 18:48:19 4 18:48:28 more precisely: 18:48:32 teh compiling, ur doin it rong 18:48:41 more like... 18:48:46 um 18:48:46 two 18:48:48 so 18:48:49 0 increase 18:48:50 :P 18:48:58 53 :P 18:49:13 gagillion = 53 18:49:13 precisely. 18:49:18 hi ehird 18:49:34 That is the multiple of binaries :P 18:50:36 from this we deduce gag = log 53 / log 1000 - 1 18:50:53 (american style) 18:51:03 a gag is therefore ~= 0.86 18:51:15 unless i messed that up 18:51:24 you did 18:51:30 HA HA 18:51:35 -0.425241376799737 18:51:42 * ehird 's mind breaks 18:52:32 probably a parsing error :D 18:52:45 cat doesn't work :P 18:53:06 GregorR: feed it 18:53:09 GregorR: cats never work 18:53:17 only play 18:53:20 oerjan: WE ARE SO CLEVER WE CAME UP WITH THE SAME JOKE 18:53:27 # factor 24 18:53:27 0 18:53:27 Ouch! 18:53:30 Well that's just not right. 18:53:39 maybe it is 18:53:39 (Note: "Ouch!" is from the factor program, not me :P ) 18:53:42 indeed 0 is not a factor of 24 18:53:48 although the reverse is true 18:53:50 maybe jsmips lives in an alternate universe 18:53:53 where 0 is a factor of 24 18:53:56 and so is the number Ouch! 18:54:19 GregorR: 18:54:21 # ls bin 18:54:22 out of memory 18:54:35 I'm well aware. 18:54:35 i lol' 18:54:36 d 18:54:41 I have no idea why that's happening. 18:54:50 huge bin? 18:55:03 Not that huge :P 18:55:04 50-something binaries 18:55:05 not huge 18:55:08 but... huge for javascript 18:55:08 :P 18:55:11 echo * works 18:55:27 maybe it's scrooge's money bin 19:31:42 ais523, hello 19:31:59 hi AnMaster 19:32:14 ais523, see /msg 19:49:22 -!- olsner has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:23 -!- thutubot has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:24 -!- ehird has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:24 -!- Leonidas has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:50:39 -!- Corun has joined. 19:50:39 -!- Leonidas has joined. 19:50:39 -!- thutubot has joined. 19:50:39 -!- ehird has joined. 19:50:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:50:39 -!- olsner has joined. 19:51:16 hi ais523 19:51:16 hi 19:51:16 you said that already 19:51:23 get your script to handle netsplits 19:52:10 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 19:53:15 -!- Corun has joined. 20:04:33 -!- Azstal has joined. 20:13:33 ais523, who were you talking to? 20:18:14 AnMaster: how many people here do you have on ignore? :-P 20:18:29 Deewiant, one currently 20:18:38 So how many people could it be? 20:18:45 ah wait two 20:18:47 yes two 20:18:58 psyg nisfive and ehi rd 20:19:05 space to avoid highlight 20:19:12 I'm no bastard like eh ird 20:19:19 yes you are 20:19:22 both of you 20:19:23 Deewiant, so yes it could be one of them 20:19:36 oerjan, I'm only doing it because he keeps insulting me 20:19:53 and I only started the permanent ignore today 20:20:11 Why the former? 20:20:25 Deewiant, former ignoree? 20:20:30 psy...? 20:20:50 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:21:05 iirc he went way way off topic in a bad way a bit ago, I may unignore next week 20:21:49 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 20:24:12 * oklopol is technically a bastard! 20:24:37 interesting 20:24:56 not really. that's pretty common 20:25:16 ah well I didn't mean it in that sense 20:25:24 but rather the other meaning it has today 20:25:46 Definitions of bastard on the Web: 20:25:46 * asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous 20:25:46 * the illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents 20:25:49 see which one is first 20:27:31 ohhh i've never heard that before 20:27:49 oklopol, really? how strange 20:28:01 oklopol, and I was using it in the first sense 20:28:04 not the second 20:28:32 technically we all got exactly one asshole too :P 20:29:11 somewhere, there's some freak with two, i just know it 20:29:16 we're all just one big asshole if you ask me. 20:29:35 probably worshipped as a god in india, they do such things 20:29:45 AnMaster: it's not that strange, it's pretty common not to know that meaning. 20:29:55 oerjan: well that's just ignorant 20:30:01 * oklopol is so pissed. 20:30:16 12:21:05 iirc he went way way off topic in a bad way a bit ago, I may unignore next week 20:30:25 ^ translation: he made a joke about pedophillia 20:30:38 next, oklopol said he had a 13 year old (iirc) girlfriend at one point, not-jokingly 20:30:40 no ignore was brought 20:30:51 being a pedophile is ok, just don't joke about it :D 20:30:54 ehird: well you said it, i didn't mention sex :) 20:31:05 oklopol: tru tru 20:31:06 also he didn't believe me. 20:31:20 oklopol: well, how could he? pedophiles are physically impossible to exist 20:31:30 the only thing you can do with them is joke about them and how they don't exist 20:31:32 and that's just despicable 20:32:06 ehird: i guess i sound too sane to be one? not that i would say i'm a pedophile, but anyway. 20:32:23 i'm just calling you a pedophile to enhance his perfect point 20:32:40 yes, true, that was my point too, when i said it. 20:33:01 oklopol: shut up, pedophile. 20:33:04 wait, no 20:33:06 pedophillia is ok 20:33:06 :D 20:33:09 joking about it isn't 20:33:11 i should do maths now. 20:33:12 got mixed up there 20:35:22 (anyway in my defense, she totally looked 15.) 20:35:23 (->) 20:37:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:39:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 20:40:05 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:49:35 Fixed ls 8-D 20:49:55 (Which is to say, fixed sbrk :P ) 20:51:28 ls is ... distressingly slow ... 20:51:48 GregorR: i don't think you'll ever surpass molasses 20:52:15 Yeah, but neither will your FACE. 20:52:19 tru 20:56:56 OH, I see why ls is slow. 20:57:02 It stats all the effing files :P 20:57:08 stat = load, load = AJAX, AJAX = time. 20:57:39 I guess I should delay loading until there's a read. 20:58:06 GregorR: watch out for security holes in sbrk, someone could gain root access... 20:58:19 Root access to a simulated machine :P 20:58:20 (j/k) 21:00:42 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:00:54 GregorR: cache 21:00:54 yo 21:01:01 get all the info once 21:01:05 then cache it until it's modified 21:01:28 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:01:35 Presumably "all the info" != the actual file data :P 21:01:38 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:01:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:02:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:02:49 -!- ehird has joined. 21:03:38 GregorR: cache the file data too, you _know_ when it's modified, you can cache everything until the file changes 21:04:17 The file data is the problem ... 21:04:24 There's 12MB of files, it takes a while to download. 21:04:27 I don't want to download them. 21:04:37 -!- LolaCL has joined. 21:06:26 banner works X-P 21:07:25 GregorR: have two modes 21:07:27 stat mode 21:07:29 and file mode 21:07:39 don't cache file mode 21:07:41 but cache stat mode 21:10:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:17:48 I don't see how download time is related to caching: I mean, it's not like you'd have to *prefetch* things if you cache them. You can just cache stuff you need to download. (Of course it will eat up some memory.) 21:18:04 It's not, I have no idea why ehird is saying what he is :P 21:18:15 GregorR: I mean 21:18:20 hitting the server all the time just to stat 21:18:22 is dumb 21:18:23 so hit it once 21:18:25 and keep that stat 21:18:27 until the file changes 21:18:41 then 21:18:42 GregorR: I have no idea why you're saying "I don't want to download them" as an argument against caching file data. 21:18:43 the first ls will be slow 21:18:45 but the next ones will be fast 21:18:46 and also 21:18:48 I'm hitting the server N times for N files, that's the problem. 21:18:53 That's how it already is. 21:18:55 GregorR: so make a batch mode 21:18:58 First ls is slow, the rest are fast. 21:19:03 also 21:19:07 it doesn't download the WHOLE file does it? 21:19:07 The only problem is that the first ls is REALLY FUCKING SLOW :P 21:19:09 it just stats it? 21:19:10 right? 21:19:17 Yes, it downloads the whole file, that's the problem :P 21:19:22 GregorR: So add a &stat=1 21:19:27 that just returns the stat info 21:19:28 stoopid 21:19:49 I was just stating the problem, not that it's difficult to solve. 21:19:57 the time it's taken yout o tell us 21:19:58 = fix it 21:19:58 :P 21:20:14 I can't, I'm gonna go gorge myself with turkey and ham now. 21:20:15 http://profy.us/2008/11/27/openid-gets-political-support-from-barack-obama/ 21:20:15 lol wat. 21:20:46 I thought you were American...? 21:21:24 umm 21:21:25 i'm british 21:21:33 buttt 21:21:38 Oh :P 21:21:38 what's me being american got to do with it 21:21:39 :P 21:21:48 In America, today is gorge-yourself-with-turkey day. 21:21:59 no i meant 21:22:01 http://profy.us/2008/11/27/openid-gets-political-support-from-barack-obama/ lol wat 21:22:06 but yes 21:22:06 Ohhhhhhhhhhhh 21:22:07 i know 21:22:11 OK, good :P 21:22:54 -!- jix has joined. 21:46:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 21:49:24 -!- Azstal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:49:53 -!- Asztal has joined. 21:53:32 -!- Azstal has joined. 22:09:41 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 22:21:45 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 22:22:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:21:15 GregorR, stat() wouldn't need full download 23:21:24 it would just need server to extract some info 23:41:20 psygnisfive: 23:41:35 sup 23:43:06 psygnisfive: i wanna try that upside down thing. 23:43:13 where you use inversing glasses thingy 23:43:15 for a week. 23:43:18 is this sane y/n 23:43:45 no. it'll be unwise to do it. 23:44:05 psygnisfive: why 23:44:35 psygnisfive: Y 23:45:03 psygnisfive: Y Y Y Y Y 23:45:04 itll be hard to get around the first few days while you adjust 23:45:16 psygnisfive: i don't move all that much most of the time 23:45:16 it could be dangerous walking around a city or something without an escort 23:45:17 soooooo 23:45:23 still 23:45:24 then i won't walk around a city 23:45:25 :P 23:45:26 you could get injured 23:45:32 I'm clumsy anyway 23:45:33 :D 23:45:33 also, you need the glasses :p 23:45:42 ok, well can i have your body when you get killed? 23:45:44 wat? 23:45:46 and 23:45:47 no 23:45:48 :P 23:45:50 :( 23:45:58 hmm 23:46:05 I should do it sideways so that I get a tall-screen. 23:46:08 instead of a wide-screen 23:46:09 XD 23:47:40 i dont know if that'd work :P 23:47:47 afk coffee and cake 23:48:07 coffeeeeeeee 23:48:49 ehird: yeah you should try it. i would've tried it years ago if i had the glasses 23:48:59 oklopol: actually you should try it 23:49:01 you're oklopol 23:49:01 i don't really feel like making something that complicated myself 23:49:03 you'd have no problems 23:49:14 indeed i'd probably learn it in a day. 23:49:15 ...or not 23:49:28 you're oklopol 23:49:29 of course you woul 23:49:30 d 23:49:37 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 23:49:39 yes of course 23:49:42 now sleep time! 23:49:52 have a goooood night nightity nighties 23:49:54 ------> 23:50:05 bye 23:50:06 :) 23:58:57 bacl yo 2008-11-28: 00:00:30 ok, another idea: 00:00:32 EAT MY EYEBALLS 00:00:34 discuss 00:08:07 -!- DarkPants has joined. 00:08:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:08:30 -!- DarkPants has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 00:35:21 hmm 00:35:26 * psygnisfive eats ehirds eyeballs 00:42:32 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:06:24 -!- Jarocks has joined. 01:06:29 -!- Jarocks has left (?). 01:18:52 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:19:06 -!- Corun has joined. 01:33:47 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 01:43:25 BLARGH TURKEY COMA 01:43:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:00:13 I didn't eat turkey today. 02:04:10 D-8 02:04:11 SIN 02:23:56 Of all the times for the MPFR web page to be down >_> 02:29:18 UINTMAX_MAX 02:29:19 WTF? 02:37:46 Oh, it's the maximum value of the maximaly-sized int. 02:37:50 *maximally 02:45:34 Hahaha, I just thought of a great way to effectively break the GPL. 02:45:58 Distribute your source in GPL ... along with hundreds of megs of irrelevant (but compiling) source, which is all incompatible and functions slightly different purposes. 02:46:12 Nobody will be able to disect the part that actually corresponds to the binaries you distribute :P 02:52:18 hmm "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it." 02:52:39 you just have to convince them that that's your preferred method ;) 02:52:57 Yes :P 02:54:09 Well this is a weird thing to see in any C file: 02:54:11 #define char bogus_type 02:54:11 #define short bogus_type 02:54:11 #define int bogus_type 02:54:11 #define long bogus_type 02:54:11 #define unsigned bogus_type 02:54:12 #define float bogus_type 02:54:14 #define double bogus_type 02:54:58 intriguing 02:56:18 it's from GCC? I suppose that makes a little more sense. 02:56:48 Yeah, it's in libgcc2.c :P 02:57:13 Still pretty weird. 02:58:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:10:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 03:14:08 vi gives shockingly useful error messages. 03:14:14 "/var/tmp" Not Supported 03:14:22 I didn't realize a directory could be unsupported. 03:32:15 -!- Corun has joined. 03:39:15 I have vi about 1/3 working :P 03:49:26 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 03:50:14 when will bc work? 03:51:04 it'd be great to have a bignum calculator handy 03:51:45 What's bc part of? 03:51:54 it's in bin 03:52:06 Oh, it just doesn't work? :P 03:52:10 part of...? the unix utilities? 03:52:22 that's it 03:52:26 In this case, heirloom toolkits. 03:52:55 I care more about vi ;) 03:55:28 It loads termcap ... and does nothing with it ... 03:56:30 dc > bc 03:58:08 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:58:15 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 04:03:01 bsmntbombdood: dc works :P 04:03:14 bsmntbombdood: bc is just an absurdly-complicated wrapper for dc anyway. 04:03:21 yeah 04:04:10 ARGH WTFBBQ X_X 04:04:24 It opens /etc/termcap ... and doesn't read a single effing byte!!! 04:34:18 Orc seems interesting, but the interpreter is so shitty 04:40:20 Orc? 04:40:24 (ORK?) 04:40:55 OOOOORC 04:41:04 The one that was recently deleted fromthe wiki 04:41:12 Concurent programming. 04:41:21 There's three interpreters. 04:41:24 One online. 04:41:34 One that requires that I open Eclipse to run it 04:41:39 And one that only works on Linux 04:44:35 That's pretty sucktacular. 04:44:50 Yeah 04:45:02 It's hard to find a concurent language. 04:45:23 I'm trying Spico here, even though it's supposed to be used for biological simulations. 04:49:10 Well, it requires Mozart Oz. 04:49:14 Which requires Emacs. 04:49:20 And I can't find a Windows version. 04:49:27 I hate OS-dependant programs 04:49:35 Yeah, but so's your face. 04:49:50 Yes, my face also hates it. 04:49:59 And that's why I'm making JSMIPS! Every program is suddenly non-platform-dependent ... or some such bullshit :P 04:50:31 But will I want programs that runs on JSMIPS? 04:50:53 I doubt it :P 04:50:56 I almost have vi running! 04:51:54 The Stochastic Pi Machine (SPiM) is a simulator for the stochastic pi-calculus that can be used to execute models of biological systems. The machine has been formally specified, and the specification has been proved correct with respect to the calculus 04:51:59 Well, let's try that. 04:52:15 Although I doubt that it will help me a lot with such a specific purpose 04:53:38 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:53:50 Yeah, it's pretty much only pi calculus 04:54:01 Although it would be nice to try it a bit 04:54:28 I love the examples. 04:54:30 There's o$ 04:54:34 no hello world 04:54:40 It's ionization of NaCl 04:56:17 Maybe I should reinstall Linux. 04:59:50 The Transterpreter is a small, portable, open-source runtime for exploring concurrency. 04:59:51 Give it a whirl... 04:59:51 On the 04:59:51 Desktop Explore programming in a concurrent language on the Mac, Windows, or Linux. 04:59:51 On your robot Concurrency and little robots! We currently support the LEGO Mindstorms RCX, and the Surveyor Corporation SRV-1. 04:59:52 Everywhere else The Transterpreter was developed to be portable and run from as little as 10KB of flash with mere bytes of RAM. Interested developers may grab the source and enquire within. 04:59:55 Fuck 04:59:58 Ooooh, vi is deliciously close to working 8-D 05:00:05 I want an interpreter on my robot D: 05:02:41 Ah, finally, an interpreter for occam-pi! 05:03:26 NO THANKS 05:03:40 Occam robot! Destroy him! 05:03:42 BEEP BOOP 05:03:49 EX-TER-MI-NA-TIO? 05:03:52 N 05:04:38 * bsmntbombdood pets your tail as she gently licks your fuzzy anus 05:04:45 oops wrong window sorry 05:05:21 OR IS IT? 05:12:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:13:01 Well, let's see how this occam pi works. 05:13:12 Unless you want to lick my fuzzy anus. I'm down with that. 05:18:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:29:03 vi is so close to working >_> 05:30:42 * GreaseMonkey uses ee instead 05:30:51 oh 05:30:52 that 05:30:57 what's missing? 05:32:01 He needs a giant diamond. 05:32:06 Can you get it for us? 05:32:53 Hm. 05:32:58 Occams seems to be what I need. 05:33:06 I just hope it has lambdas. 05:33:17 GreaseMonkey: I'm not sure ... I think it's just the input is limited. 05:33:28 Doing once again lambdas without lambdas is a boring prospect 05:33:59 GregorR: are you having issues getting the arrow keys to work? 05:34:17 GreaseMonkey: I'm not attempting to get the arrow keys to work, this is classic vi :P 05:34:19 I'm using hjkl 05:34:27 ok 05:34:45 In Occam expressions, there is no operator precedence! Therefore, you must use 05:34:45 parentheses to specify the order of operation. 05:34:47 D: 05:35:01 fantastic 07:16:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:43:11 -!- olsner has joined. 07:43:32 sounds like INTERCAL 07:45:16 What does? 07:45:28 except in INTERCAL, the grouping is done with symbols other than parentheses 07:45:37 the lack of operator precedence 07:45:43 Oh. 07:45:55 Unlambda has that too :o 07:47:00 It's hard to find shit on Occam, because most results are about Occam's razor. 07:47:18 Occam -razor 07:47:58 i.e. http://www.google.com/search?q=Occam+-razor 07:48:24 Oh yeah 07:48:43 http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/s03.html#4.3 07:49:00 Hm. 07:49:07 you have to use sparks or rabbit-ears 07:49:13 I'm not sure Occam has some functional part. 07:49:44 GregorR: how's vi? 07:50:06 pgimeno: There are some other wonky issues I have to fix before I can figure out what's wrong with it. 07:51:34 hope some of the fixes to vi help bc as well :P 07:52:34 Quite possibly. 07:54:00 Thinks like du and cp are failing in truly bizarre ways. 07:54:21 I suspect it's some kind of problem with the I/O subsystem, which is probably affecting keyboard I/O just as much as file I/O 07:54:23 CP D: 07:56:42 Rargh 07:56:53 Does anyone know a concurent language with lambdas in it? 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:11 "In parallel computing, an embarrassingly parallel workload (or embarrassingly parallel problem) is one for which little or no effort is required to separate the problem into a number of parallel tasks." 08:01:11 heh 08:04:27 Hm. 08:04:28 Oz. 08:04:29 Lessee. 08:04:38 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sh**. 08:04:57 This one I don't know if I can fix ... 08:05:11 It seems that something deep in the ABI isn't passing long long's correctly to functions. 08:05:12 Did you divide by zero 08:06:49 I have nothing whatsoever to do with those parts of the ABI. 08:10:18 No, never mind ... seems that's a problem with printf specifically. 08:10:25 Then that's probably just newlib. 08:11:50 "While this is theoretically possible, it's obvious that Mr. Stephenson's never actually programmed them himself. If he had, he would quickly have realized that no one programs Turing machines in the real world." 08:11:53 I resent that remark. 08:12:37 It's not real-world until there's a Visual Turing Machine Enterprise Edition 2010 08:27:40 But what of the LOVE MACHINE 9000? 08:27:47 It's like way higher than 2010 08:29:19 I just reread The Diamond Age a couple of days ago, and actually it was rather real-worldish in the way that after encountering Turing machines, there are successively more "high-level" systems (including that one where stuff was programmed with a language that was "extremely pithy and made heavy use of parentheses") that are just said to be computationally equivalent to Turing machines. 08:29:48 Admittedly there's that one bit of programming Turing machines, but it makes for a good story. 08:30:20 Ye Olde renthesis 08:32:19 Oh, it's futuristic? 08:32:31 I thought it was steampunkish 08:32:41 Then yeah, a Turing machine is probably a bad idea 08:35:06 It's "Turing machines in a storybook", not "Turing machines actually used in the future". 08:35:26 wat 08:36:40 A large part of the book is about an "interactive" educational story book thing. 08:36:52 Turing machines are just used in that book to teach about computing. 08:37:44 Oh. 08:37:51 Well, I guess that makes sense. Of sort. 08:38:08 Even though they're more useful in a math setting than a computer setting 08:38:19 Since they're pretty terrible to implement on anything, really 08:38:38 They are mechanical Turing machines, anyway. 08:39:01 Long pieces of chain (with two-position toggle switches in each link) work as the tape. 08:39:01 How can they be mechanical, if they're in a book 08:39:43 In the story told by the book. 08:42:34 Curious, that book is in scribd.com, claiming creative commons attribution non-commercial license. That's surprising, and not even sure if it's actually true. 08:47:59 "In my previous post I talked a bit about Alex Smith's proof that the Wolfram Prize 2 state, 3 symbol Turing machine was universal" 08:48:01 Duuuuude 08:48:06 You're blog material! 08:48:11 Can I have your autograph 08:51:18 Hahahah, I love retardedly-retarded problems. 08:51:30 CAN YOU SPOT THE ERROR HERE: 08:51:38 if (flags | O_APPEND) { /* stuff for append mode */ } 08:51:48 Is it C? 08:51:59 I can't spot it anyway 08:53:06 To check if a flag is set, you use &. To set a flag, you use | 08:53:09 X-P 08:53:30 With |, that will be always true as long as O_APPEND is nonzero. 08:54:11 AYUP 08:54:14 I'M EL STUPID! 08:54:26 Are you hispanic? 08:55:43 That's still not as common as "if (mode = MODE_BLAH) { ... }"... although I guess that one tends to give some warnings. 08:56:52 Slereah_: No, but screwing up two languages at once is far more stupid than screwing up one :P 08:58:13 Hahaha 08:58:19 One quick way to access the source for dir.php ... cat it X-P 09:02:24 GregorR: you probably confused it with the | that goes when ORing flags together as in: if (flags & (O_APPEND | O_WRONLY)) ... 09:02:51 Yup. 09:02:58 That's precisely what I did. 09:03:10 Doesn't make it any less stupid :P 09:03:14 hehe 09:05:04 hah 09:05:56 Does anyone know a concurent language with lambdas in it? <-- hm, erlang is concurrent, and for "funs" which is just lambdas with a different name really 09:06:12 s/for/have/ 09:06:15 weird typo 09:06:17 Indeed. 09:08:12 Slereah_, anyway I hope you find that useful 09:08:17 Well, I like to have fun. 09:08:25 fun as in short for function 09:08:26 I'll give it a shot 09:08:33 I gathered as much 09:08:39 Slereah_, erlang is not an esolang btw 09:08:43 I know 09:08:51 I saw it on my concurent cruise 09:08:52 just wanted to make sure 09:09:08 speaking of fun, what happened to humour in recently created languages? 09:09:24 We saw Esme, and we said "Never again" 09:09:25 Slereah_, however iirc "normal" functions are slightly faster in erlang. 09:09:34 since it can optimize those better 09:09:39 Well, I'm not looking for speed. 09:09:46 ok 09:09:49 I want to try doing the goddamn Limp. 09:10:03 Slereah_, there is a lisp for erlang iirc 09:10:05 let me find the link 09:10:30 :o 09:10:33 AnMaster, I love you. 09:10:36 Have my babies. 09:10:41 no I'm male 09:10:49 http://github.com/rvirding/lfe/tree/master 09:10:52 I haven't tried it 09:10:55 So am I, that won't stop me 09:11:06 Slereah_, I'm not homosexual 09:11:25 Slereah_, anyway lfe is at very early development stage 09:11:32 so far from complete 09:11:43 and you need to know normal erlang to be able to use it really 09:11:51 as far as I have heard 09:11:58 Well, considering that I want to combine the most basic functional languages. 09:12:05 I'm not worried about it being finished. 09:12:19 If it has lambdas, arithmetics and concurrent programming, I'll see what I can do. 09:12:23 Slereah_, also are you on *nix? 09:12:31 ... 09:12:33 Oh. 09:12:36 since the build system seems to be a single Makefile currently 09:12:39 That might be a bigger problem 09:12:42 Hm. 09:12:44 erlang itself works on windows 09:12:53 What destro would you advise? 09:12:56 lfe doesn't have a non-*nix build system currently 09:13:00 A simple one for simple folks 09:13:03 Slereah_, as I said, erlang itself exists for windows 09:13:05 ("stupid") 09:13:13 Yeah. 09:13:19 Hm. 09:13:24 and I assume you can build lfe by hand on windows 09:13:30 shouldn't be an issue 09:13:36 Well, I'll see that. 09:14:00 yes the makefile seem very basic 09:15:03 Slereah_, oh and I can recommend the book "Programming Erlang - Software for a concurrent world" by Joe Armstrong (one of the designers of Erlang) 09:15:20 Hm. 09:15:25 Erlang on google : 09:15:27 We're sorry... 09:15:27 ... but your query looks similar to automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now. 09:15:31 D: 09:15:49 http://www.erlang.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language) 09:16:07 http://www.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang 09:16:58 Joe Armstrong is a pretty awesome name. 09:17:06 They should make an action figure with that name 09:17:11 Slereah_, for the last one I wouldn't be surprised if the ebook can be found in some torrent or such 09:17:16 not recommended though 09:17:22 since it is an awesome book 09:17:48 Hence it would be awesome to get the torrent of it 09:18:01 Slereah_, I think it is worth paying for 09:18:25 I'm not sure paying for something I'm not sure to follow through is worth it. 09:18:34 Slereah_, no comments 09:18:36 Hell, I bought enough video games and had the same problem! 09:19:06 well are you going to buy it if you end up liking the language? 09:19:18 Also if I need it. 09:19:22 Slereah_, also iirc the first chapter is available for free online 09:19:32 'kay 09:19:44 Technically, I should need it only for one application. 09:19:50 Slereah_, look a bit further down at http://www.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang/programming-erlang 09:20:01 # Getting Started (extract) 09:20:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 09:22:54 ???????? ???? ?????????... 09:22:54 ... ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???????, ????????????? ??????????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ????????????. ? ????? ?????? ????? ????????????? ?? ?? ????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??????????. 09:22:57 Also on google 09:23:01 What the fuck is happening 09:23:12 Maybe I should turn off the proxy. 09:23:42 Ah, it was the proxy apparently 09:23:48 Google no likes proxys 09:29:02 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:48:53 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:54:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:50:47 o 10:50:47 o 11:06:23 idea: come up with valid/reasonable/funny meanings for this expression: 11:06:25 3 / "Hello, World" 11:06:32 where / is divide 11:07:11 * AnMaster has been pondering a dynamically typed language where every operation is valid 11:07:23 such as dividing any type by any other type and so on 11:07:39 oklotalk 11:07:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:08:24 oklopol, oh it got that? 11:08:32 not sure what 3 will do with [/ "Hello, World], but it'll probably try to convert the string to its own type, by default. 11:08:47 anyway "string" / 3 would be a list like "st" "ri" "ng" 11:08:50 logically 11:08:52 yes 11:08:57 the other way, I'm not sure 11:09:00 i think that's what i've specced 11:09:22 oklopol, nice, how would you convert ""Hello, World" to an integer? 11:09:31 and "string" % 3 would be "si" "tn" "rg" i think 11:09:42 oklopol, ahah 11:09:46 hahah* 11:09:55 well I got an idea 11:10:32 ""Hello, World" turns into the whatever you get interpreting the byte sequence as a arbitrary precision integer 11:10:41 s/^""/"/ 11:11:02 i think "Hello, World" would become its length when told to be converted to an integer 11:11:15 oklopol, hm ok 11:11:26 oklopol, what other types does oklotalk have? 11:11:32 besides strings and integers 11:11:33 oklotalk is very high-level, you shouldn't even have to know whether it's a list or a hashmap, byte sequences don't make much sense. 11:11:45 oklopol, so it have structs and such? 11:11:48 it basically has just objects. 11:12:01 an object can be given messages, and it can return things 11:12:21 oklopol, hm what would "string" / 10 do? 11:12:25 you can't split it in 10 11:12:31 ["string"] 11:12:34 oh? 11:12:39 heh? 11:12:54 it just splits it in pieces of size N, and has the modulo as the last one 11:13:03 ah 11:13:08 "string" / -2 11:13:08 ? 11:13:25 * AnMaster waits for oklopol to work out that one 11:13:28 i don't know. not necessarily anything sensible. 11:13:41 ah 11:13:45 but i'd probably just split from the end. 11:13:51 hm 11:14:02 oklopol, and divided by a floating point number... 11:14:12 one of oklotalk's design goals is to make the standard objects as clever as possible. 11:14:16 "pi" / 3.14 11:14:16 ? 11:14:17 ah 11:14:20 that should be 1 then 11:14:23 if it is cleaver 11:14:23 that is, make them able to handle pretty much anything. 11:14:27 actually no 11:14:44 it would be 1.000something 11:14:46 and not in a demand-driven fashion, just that there's a meaning for most things you can try. 11:15:05 oklopol, "string" / "string" == 1 then I guess. 11:15:29 AnMaster: i think that's "split", so no. 11:15:29 while "string" / "somethingelse" ? no idea 11:15:35 oklopol, ah 11:15:59 AnMaster: as for flaots you'd probably just have the first [N] pieces in the first substring, then [N+1]..[2N] in the next, and so on. 11:16:06 oklopol, where is the spec and/or implementation? 11:16:11 so if it's 1.5, you'd have 2 chars in the first, then 1, then 2, then 1... 11:16:28 AnMaster: i've only implemented oklotalk--, which is very simplified and quite boring. 11:16:33 ah 11:16:36 oklopol, spec then? 11:17:11 well not sure about boring, it's pretty high-level, and useful if you don't mind it doesn't have that much stuff in the stdlib. 11:17:26 AnMaster: you can search @ vjn.fi's articles, i don't have it anywhere in one piece. 11:17:37 oklopol, ah and the oklotalk-- interpreter? 11:17:45 or compiler or whatever 11:17:55 and thanks for reminding me about my languages, i think i have enough knowledge now to get my noprob interp done today 11:18:15 oklopol, is the -- one at vjn too? 11:18:27 AnMaster: it's a python interp, but i'm not sure where it is, and it may be on a broken hard drive :| 11:18:34 ouch 11:18:38 * oklopol checks 11:18:41 oklopol, and I got python installed 11:18:50 python 2.5 to be exact 11:18:54 ah 11:18:57 i have it here. 11:19:10 oklopol, great! upload the source :) 11:19:39 i guess i could. don't expect to be able to read it though. 11:19:52 oklopol, indeed I only know basic python 11:20:00 and then your coding style 11:21:52 www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk.rar do you open that? 11:22:02 think so 11:22:07 just need to read unrar man page 11:22:12 ya. 11:22:37 so i have no idea how that thing works, if you seriously want to try it, i can check to source for what you need to be calling. 11:22:50 well. cli.py 11:22:54 ah 11:23:00 so python cli.py? 11:23:10 yeah 11:23:33 oklopol, and specs for this -- variant? *hopeful smile* 11:23:37 ({(-> N (* N 5))} 3) 11:24:00 i guess i could up the specs too. 11:24:10 would be very kind 11:25:21 i think it's done. 11:25:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:25:35 oklopol, where? 11:25:40 hmm. 11:25:45 didn't work it seems, wait a sec 11:25:52 ok 11:26:17 k, now. except it's .rtf, is that proprietary or do you open it? 11:26:28 I suspect open office can open it 11:26:33 yeah most likely 11:26:39 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk.rtf ? 11:26:46 no it's in the rar 11:26:53 ah 11:26:55 i just blobbed it in there 11:27:35 openoffice can open it 11:28:14 now i really need to go to sleep. if you're really interested in trying to make something in that, bug me aboug bugs, i will probably happily fix them for you. 11:29:16 although i doubt there'll be any, because i don't make mistakes. but seriously, that code is very badly structured, because i tend to refactor without removing old code, and just fixing it by adding random lines in the middle, you know, the way all the cool kids do it. 11:29:35 oklopol, hm ok cya 11:29:39 odd time to go to sleep 11:29:47 middle of the day 11:29:54 and i refactored a lot, was my first time implementing static scoping, so both static and dynamic required a bit of mental exorcism. 11:30:16 oklopol, hah 11:30:49 oklotalk--'s scoping is probably the most differentiating thing from other languages. 11:31:42 it's verry crooked. 11:31:48 it seems sane 11:31:54 "Static scoping overrides dynamic scoping, meaning that a thing first checks its own closure, and only then looks for variables in the contents of closures of things above it in the call stack. 11:31:54 " 11:32:12 isn't that what common lisp does? 11:32:19 see "setcar" in ehird's list implementation 11:32:27 is it now? i thought no language has that, but yeah maybe. 11:32:50 oklopol, where is the setcat implementation? 11:33:08 the scoping is very weird because you use "things", those {}-thingies as both objects and functions 11:33:18 AnMaster: www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk.txt 11:33:26 also it's there in that rtf i think 11:33:40 oklopol, the txt one is 404 11:33:50 add -- 11:33:53 sub ++ 11:33:53 ah 11:33:55 mul // 11:33:57 div ** 11:33:58 "A pages you tried to acess does no exist on this servers." 11:34:01 sleep zz 11:34:01 not* 11:34:02 -> 11:34:04 not "no" 11:34:06 oklopol, ^ 11:34:18 typoed 404 page :P 11:34:28 AnMaster: also "page", "access" and "server" :D 11:34:38 oklopol, oh intentional then I guess 11:34:49 no one would typo that much by mistake 11:34:50 that's deliberate, the guy who wrote that is excellent at english 11:34:54 yeah 11:35:02 but 11:35:12 really, i need to go :D 11:35:12 but what? 11:35:14 ok 11:35:15 see ya -> 11:35:15 cya 11:35:55 someone should create an esolang called "ya" 11:36:03 so you could make jokes about "see ya" 12:13:34 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:19:31 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 13:38:30 01:11:06 Slereah_, I'm not homosexual 13:38:36 even if you were you couldn't procreate with Slereah. 13:41:29 WANT TO BET ON IT? 13:47:10 yes. 13:48:19 How much? 13:48:28 $7 13:56:36 You're on. 13:56:45 I need full access to your butt. 13:58:59 no 13:59:01 it was about AnMaster. 13:59:05 oh, hi ais523 14:11:20 -!- Corun has joined. 14:53:47 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:04:19 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:11:57 -!- Slereah2 has joined. 15:22:04 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:25:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:34:52 -!- Slereah2 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:34:53 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:37:48 -!- sebbu has quit ("reboot"). 15:49:50 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 15:53:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:42:50 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:01:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:14:22 -!- GregorR has joined. 17:30:12 -!- Corun has joined. 17:35:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:43:49 Hmm, an esolang called "ya". 17:44:15 no 17:52:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:53:17 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:57:20 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:58:55 -!- Mony has joined. 17:59:44 plop 17:59:55 dold 18:10:20 qolq 18:11:41 blob 18:13:39 zolp 18:17:15 -!- olsner has joined. 18:32:17 -!- trave has joined. 18:38:45 -!- trave_ has joined. 18:38:56 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:39:05 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 18:39:11 -!- trave has changed nick to travis. 18:39:33 -!- travis has changed nick to trave. 18:46:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:00:34 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:45:51 -!- trave_ has joined. 19:46:16 -!- trave_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:48:47 -!- jayCampbell has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+ssfe"). 19:51:52 -!- trave has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 19:59:59 which character would be best for a prefix for variables that are kinda returned? 20:00:02 "?" maybe? 20:00:27 oklopol: hmm 20:00:28 ^ 20:00:31 ^a 20:00:33 borrowed from smalltalk 20:00:38 which uses ^ for return 20:00:39 brb 20:00:50 btw 20:00:55 it represents going one level up in the stack 20:00:56 with a value 20:00:58 ^ = up arrow 20:00:59 yes 20:01:01 i realize that 20:01:05 not a bad idea 20:01:11 except there's no stack here, but anyway 20:01:14 brb 20:01:34 bye. 20:02:16 noprob is mean :< 20:04:26 ais523: here? 20:05:52 basically i want something that lets me use a probability as a number, the problem is i can't really find a reversible operation. 20:06:01 which i need for inc/dec 20:08:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:08:13 hmm. 20:08:28 maybe i should just implement what i have and think about how it actually works later... :D 20:10:59 btw. the semantics of "cut" are very weird, basically, you can do A = B & C to make A's probability 0.25, roughly because 0.5*0.5 is 0.25, and B and C are originally true with probability 0.5 20:11:42 now, a semicolon at the end of line is a cut, it simply forgets all relations between variables, and only leaves the probabilities 20:12:01 which you can use as conditions for entering problotures 20:12:11 makes sense right 20:12:31 if you are sufficiently insane 20:13:07 actually i'd also like something that *doesn't* cut, so you *can* have these long-term relations between variables 20:13:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:13:47 if i'm not insane now, i will be pretty soon if i keep trying to get noprob to make sense. 20:13:51 "problotures" :P 20:14:20 olsner: yes! it's a mix of procedure + block + oklopolitan word-scrambling 20:14:55 basically i have a while loop, except the semantics are it's a prolog-style tail-recursive procedure :) 20:15:03 this sounds interesting 20:15:20 noprob is based on 3sat 20:15:28 the idea was to make a tarpit over it 20:15:41 the problem is storage, so i had the idea to make the variables kinda have probabilities. 20:15:56 this was where i went horribly wrong (not that i'm going back!) 20:16:47 basically, a variable's probability is, as far as problotures / IO are concerned, the portion of satisfying models for the 3sat expression where that variable is true. 20:17:40 but it's kinda hard to manipulate that as a value, because, well, it just is. 20:18:36 a probloture is of the form (expression)[variables]{body}, which is while(expression){body}, variables have to do with the kinda parameters for the "recursion" 20:19:27 when the body ends, it's as if there were an infinite amount of those in a row, each depending on the last one by the probloture's body setting the special variables of form ^var 20:19:51 meh, it's impossible to explain. 20:20:01 something like a fixpoint then? 20:20:09 yes. 20:20:18 kinda. 20:21:03 hmm actually. i think i originally didn't have the expression there... (got overwhelmed, scrapped everything and started over like 15 minutes ago :D) 20:21:11 in that case it would be a fixpoint 20:21:41 basically, you'd make, say, A depend on ^A through some formula 20:22:02 and because ^A would have to be known, the next cycle of the probloture would be run 20:22:18 yeah that's much better, i'll reinstate that. 20:23:41 then again now i'll need some other kinda conditional if i want numberssss... 20:25:49 * oklopol ponders using 8< for "cut" 20:27:23 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:27:30 ✂ 20:27:36 maybe i should try writing like a fibonacci, maybe things would get clearer. 20:28:07 Azstal: $¤ 20:29:13 Azstal: you seem to have developed a slight nick disorder 20:29:20 so I do 20:29:40 it normally changes back by magic 20:29:43 -!- Azstal has changed nick to Asztal. 20:30:12 oerjan: how did you notice that? :P 20:30:29 BWAHAHAHA 20:31:15 hihihiiii :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd 20:31:29 it's quite impressive actually... someone once asked how there are two of me with the exact same name 20:32:08 for a second there i was about to ask why freenode showed a nickchange that didn't change the nick... 20:33:26 nothing escapes my x-ray vision (WARNING: Do not use while pregnant. Avoid frequent exposure. Consult your doctor if you have a family history of cancer.) 20:37:41 -!- nooga has joined. 20:48:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:51:38 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:55:00 -!- nooga_ has joined. 21:06:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:09:42 ARGH 21:09:50 vi is so close to working I can (still) taste it. 21:09:56 But there's still something wonky X_X 21:10:03 I think it thinks that my screen has 1 row :P 21:11:26 lack of ROWS= maybe? 21:12:52 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:14:05 GregorR: link link link 21:19:06 OMFG! 21:21:06 i just found a naked photo of a girl exactly simmilar to my ex gf on 4chan O_o 21:22:07 less talky more linky 21:22:13 :D 21:22:30 http://cgi.4chan.org/r/src/1227904327552.jpg 21:22:32 wut 21:22:32 Today, we observe the main topic of #esoteric. 21:22:54 cute! 21:23:00 even the piercing is in the same place 21:23:14 * oerjan didn't expect nooga_ to give the link. must have been a nasty breakup. 21:23:18 but i do not remember that tatoo 21:23:45 ah, she was cute but extremely fucking crazy bitch 21:23:46 nooga_: It's a tattoo of the name of her new boyfriend. 21:24:00 GregorR: i wish him luck 21:24:04 then 21:26:07 well 21:26:31 i guess i'll need to buy some alcohol then 21:30:35 i am terrified 21:31:31 hi nooga_ 21:32:26 g2g 21:32:30 i have a mission 21:32:32 c ya 21:32:33 bye nooga_ 21:33:15 -!- nooga_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 21:52:26 -!- LinuS has joined. 22:02:16 guys 22:11:18 hey there 22:11:33 full of great scientist there 22:11:43 i'm connecting to a server on a not well known port 22:11:45 it says WDN@KHC'E^lbn-X>>!"3YXAdjo:'%$)' 22:11:52 in utf8 22:12:24 any clues? 22:13:25 shrug 22:13:28 make sure its not APL. 22:13:41 apl? 22:14:01 speaking of APL, does anyone here know it? 22:14:12 its got to be the most esoteric "mainstream" language ever 22:14:29 apl is neat. 22:14:35 its hard to read :( 22:19:14 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 22:20:02 ehird, ever built a neural network? 22:20:12 uhh 22:20:13 maybe? 22:20:31 i want to try and build on. specifically, one that uses jeff hawkins' concepts. 22:20:34 i think it'd be interesting 22:24:23 Well that's a new error :P 22:24:25 cat: cannot open dirs.php: File exists 22:24:31 hahahahaha 22:25:25 lol 22:55:41 -!- nooga has joined. 22:56:16 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 22:56:45 i am truly crushed :D 22:56:59 but smiling 22:57:47 'cause the whole case is so riddiculous that it makes me laugh 22:58:45 everywhere but not 4chan! 23:00:04 and those swarms of fapping faggots 23:00:27 nooga: im gonna go fap to ur ex kthx 23:00:59 no wai 23:12:05 * GregorR growls at JSMIPS. 23:14:34 gregorr: why growly? dont hate the jsmips 23:14:46 I wurve the JSMIPS :P 23:15:28 oh, was it an erotic sex charged growl? 23:16:08 Exactly! 23:17:15 rawr 23:18:30 It's still fucked up in some obscure way though :P 23:21:43 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. S, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 23:22:06 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 23:35:04 anyone interested in a little reverse engineering challenge? :) 23:35:58 Depends on what it is 23:36:18 ok, summary: You have two functions 23:37:10 function 1: buildStructure takes two arguments, P a set of parameters, and W a set of input items, and constructs a structure S that includes all (tho not necessarily only) the items in W 23:37:22 buildStructure(P, W) = S 23:38:09 function 2: linearize takes one argument, a structure produced by buildStructure, and linearizes the items in that structure somehow 23:39:25 the nature of buildStructure is such that, for a set W = {A, B, C, X} 23:39:57 the only possibly linearizations, for all possible parameters, are ones that satisfy the following: 23:40:23 (or rather, they show the following patterns) 23:40:38 psygnisfive: my solution: butts 23:40:59 any items linearized /before/ the X item will be lineared with the following ordering: A then B then C 23:41:22 any items linearized /after/ the X item will be linearized without constraint. 23:41:28 DUH 23:41:51 the exact linearization depends on the structure produced by buildStructure, and the nature of that structure depends on the parameters 23:41:54 so here is the question! 23:42:22 what kind of structures does buildStructure produce, what kind of parameters does it take, and how does linearize work? 23:42:59 * oerjan declares that there are an infinite number of solutions. DUH. 23:43:13 there probably are :) 23:43:24 but can you come up with any of them? :D 23:43:42 he's oerjan 23:43:44 of course he can 23:43:51 :) 23:44:05 im interested in what solutions you come up with 23:44:55 but he won't, because thin, yet extremely verbose disguises over problems he has already declared interesting yesterday are still not interesting 23:45:05 *uninteresting 23:45:14 oh did i describe this yesterday? 23:45:19 i dont know who i've asked :D 23:45:46 amnesiac, too... 23:46:19 well it's clearly your noun phrase problem. 23:46:28 it is indeed 23:46:34 i just didnt realize i told you guys about it :) 23:47:53 oerjan: what was it yesterday? 23:48:18 it huuuuuurts 23:48:59 oklopol: then don't do that 23:49:46 oklopol: what hurts? 23:50:43 ehird: relative placement of demonstratives(?) (A), numbers (B), and adjectives (C) relative to nouns (X) in the world's languages 23:50:52 ahh, that thing 23:50:55 getting out of the bed. 23:50:56 it's just a transposition of that? 23:50:57 lol. 23:51:00 nice try psygnisfive 23:51:01 -!- nooga has joined. 23:51:04 uh 23:51:10 ehird: well, i wasnt sure i'd mentioned it here! 23:51:54 i didn't really read that yesterday or today. still it was hardly possibly not to know psygnisfive was talking about the same thing 23:51:59 is specially trained neural network able to recognize naked pics of my gf? 23:52:11 oklopol: your mother :P 23:52:19 i mean. after he'd asked if we want to reverse-engineer something 23:52:24 i was like "oh god not this again!" 23:52:31 ;) 23:52:44 (i'm just going by oerjan's "not interesting") 23:53:08 well give it a try, oklopol. see if you can figure something out 23:53:25 -!- warrie has joined. 23:53:38 nooga: it may have trouble distinguishing it from YOUR MOM 23:54:06 Does the mention of NOOGA'S MOM mean I'm allowed to say that I just lost The Game? 23:54:08 (sorry, on a run here) 23:54:16 warrie: definitely 23:54:49 oof 23:54:56 Yay. 23:54:59 nooga: i doubt it (professional opinion) 23:55:11 how about any naked person? 23:56:04 don't they do something like that in some net nanny programs? i have this very vague recall 23:56:41 nooga: they might recognize your mother, but that's as far as they go. (professional object) 23:56:53 i would like to create something reverse to that 23:56:57 ...object? 23:57:03 nooga: yes i realize that 23:57:10 you want naked pictures of your mother. 23:57:25 lol is it 2 am :DD 23:57:26 said something? 23:57:27 oklopol: his mother is a professional object? 23:58:09 oerjan: well that was actually a weird typo, but if you find something sensible there, go for it 23:58:22 my irssi throws away lines containing phrase "your mother" 23:58:28 on that channel 23:58:32 not really a typo, one of those brain diarrhea thingies 23:58:47 nooga: good 23:59:10 nooga: are we that bad? i think i'll have to join Mom Jokers Anonymous soon... 23:59:22 oklopol: and so's your mom 23:59:40 in bed 2008-11-29: 00:05:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 00:18:13 Now everything in vi works EXCEPT quit (pfft, who needs that anyway) and when you go to command mode (:foo) it draws the command right where you are instead of at the bottom of the screen. 00:19:01 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 00:19:18 GregorR: is it some special vi then? 00:19:31 nooga: It's traditional vi 00:19:52 I'll attack vim next, since any issues are at least as likely to be vi as JSMIPS :P 00:20:08 so what are you doing with that vi? 00:20:18 OH 00:20:28 You don't know that I'm referring to making vi work on my JSMIPS simulator? 00:20:47 aaaah 00:21:37 vi in the browser will revolutionize web development until adobe bundles vimWorks in Flash 12 00:22:04 isn't it .. obvious? 00:22:38 self-evident 00:22:55 isn't it a bit slow? 00:23:32 nooga: moore's law will surely take care of that 00:23:39 it encourages thoughtful development practices 00:23:41 ahihih 00:24:54 nooga: It's slowish ... but I have a JIT >: ) 00:25:51 definition: a program is considered slow if moore's law matters during its running time 00:26:14 LOL 00:27:40 is there a HTML5-backed filesystem? :D 00:27:51 err.. HTML5 DOM Storage, that is 00:31:06 wot, no `wall`? 00:34:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:36:30 i'm testing Haiku 00:36:54 and it appears that it is a major shit 00:39:07 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga 00:39:46 woot? 00:40:02 nooga: major shit why? 00:40:08 haiku looks ok 00:40:42 gregor very cool how much you've got running 00:40:54 try: i'm testing Haiku / and it appears that it is / just a piece of shit 00:47:12 what esolang deserves an interpreter but is lacking one 00:47:23 the 'unimplemented' list on esowiki isn't terribly inspiring 00:57:24 vim doesn't work :P 00:57:40 I am SHOCKED AND APPALLED 00:59:12 now if you were SURPRISED, i'd be WORRIED 01:00:14 which gives me the obvious idea: GregorR, you need a tinfoil hat. as stylish as possible, of course. 01:00:19 still i cannot imagine how you've managed to compile something unixy for MIPS which emulator is written in js 01:00:36 MAGIC 01:00:59 baaa 01:01:34 i require immediate sleep 01:01:39 ah yes, GregorR needs a wizard hat too 01:02:01 nite 01:02:03 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 01:03:57 GregorR cannot have too many hats. 01:07:28 -!- oklokok has joined. 01:07:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:18:21 Hmm... was looking at the implemented/unimplemented categories on the wiki. "1L" is in both categories. 01:20:08 like Schrdinger's cat? 01:20:10 how useful. 01:21:05 ah yes, it is not one language, but several, not all implemented 01:28:03 Yeah, but so's your face. 01:28:47 yes, you _definitely_ need a tinfoil hat. 01:48:38 -!- Azstal has joined. 01:49:24 -!- Asztal has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:49:26 -!- Azstal has changed nick to Asztal. 01:56:18 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:36:18 ooooooo 02:36:19 nighties. 02:36:20 -> 03:58:54 -!- psygnisf_ has joined. 04:06:05 HOLY EFFING HOLY EFFING OMGOMGOMG 04:06:10 VIM STARTED VIM STARTED 04:07:55 * warrie starts vim 04:08:13 My vim started in a MIPS simulator in my browser. 04:08:33 That's not millions of instructions per second, is it. 04:09:03 A RISC architecture, I see. 04:09:17 Cool. 04:10:52 Suddenly, I think it would be a good idea to come up with a simple self-modifying language and then write a program that keeps a bunch of programs in this language running, occasionally randomly changing them, and replacing them with combinations of others. 04:11:22 Congratulations, you just reinvented evolutionary programming? 04:11:38 Just like an evolution simulation, except programs die randomly instead of according to how well they do, and the programs can alter their genotypes at will. 04:14:30 VIM RUNS 04:14:31 VMI RUNS 04:14:32 OMGOMGOMG 04:14:33 VIM RUNS 04:15:05 * warrie goes "omgomgomg", much the way people go "nomnomnom" 04:15:19 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:20:17 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 04:34:07 http://codu.org/jsmips_vim.png http://codu.org/jsmips_vim_2.png 04:34:16 Err 04:34:24 http://codu.org/jsmips/jsmips_vim.png http://codu.org/jsmips/jsmips_vim_2.png 04:34:49 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:39:07 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:50:57 now we can have vim on playstation? 04:51:24 The "JS" in JSMIPS is important. 04:56:26 http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html Go here, type "vim", wait ten minutes, laugh maniacally ^^ 04:57:39 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:05:53 Holy hell 05:05:56 Opera's JS is /fast/ 05:16:24 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:27:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:34:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:34:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:46:38 GregorR: Only problem; There is no way of getting out of input-mode :P 05:47:17 Escape works. 05:47:27 At least in firefox. 05:49:50 Not in Google Chrome :( 05:51:51 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:56:20 cd bin; ls 05:59:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:15:54 Yes, that downloads all the files. 06:15:59 Thanks for wasting my bandwidth. 06:40:32 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:46:54 -!- kar8nga has joined. 06:58:22 * GregorR just improved the JIT ... it's a bit faster now. 06:58:27 Not enough though :P 07:32:27 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:34:09 -!- mrgraff has joined. 07:43:41 -!- mrgraff has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.18/2008102918]"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:38:38 -!- Mony has joined. 08:39:21 plop 08:40:37 'sup 09:14:47 -!- flomoo has joined. 09:15:05 -!- flomoo has changed nick to whtspc. 09:18:31 Hi! I've created some sort of esolang, what is the best place to post for discussion ? 09:19:17 Here. 09:20:24 Hi okay, but I'm quite new to this IRC thing, does conversation gets saved while I'm away for instance? 09:20:40 This particular channel has a log. 09:20:46 The link is in the topic. 09:21:25 Okay I see :) 09:22:01 So don't talk about that time you murdered that prostitute here. 09:22:09 :) 09:22:34 Well let's start with a link to the development topic I have at another forum first: 09:22:36 http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0 09:23:07 Oh. 09:23:13 A brainfuck derivative. 09:25:26 Yeah how surprising, isn't it? it's better explained as a toy to output data in a different way than the usual ascii. 09:25:44 That's where the difference lies 09:26:37 Something like... THIS? http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello.png 09:26:40 :D 09:27:35 Infinite 2D grids are a bitch. 09:27:58 It's wrapping 09:28:09 as a feature :) 09:28:11 Wrapping is for the weak! 09:28:19 It is non-TC D: 09:29:11 It's also very small apparently :o 09:29:12 Well hi, I'm a pretty newbie to this sort of stuff, 09:29:44 I like to have some guidelines, I'm not looking for hostility 09:29:46 :) 09:29:54 Don't listen to me. 09:29:58 I'm stupid :D 09:30:07 The grid should be resizable in the end 09:30:33 someone is working on interpreter in real language, (other than actionscript) 09:30:54 Define "real language". 09:31:10 You'll find pretty much anything on anything here. 09:31:19 a programming language, not scripting language 09:31:32 Scripting languages are programming languages. 09:31:36 But yeah. 09:31:36 he's making cross-platform c++ interpreter 09:31:59 Is it called... ESCO? :o 09:32:27 no? 09:32:48 Oh. 09:33:09 k, have to go. Cheers! 09:33:33 Bye. 09:33:44 -!- whtspc has left (?). 09:35:35 -!- whtspc has joined. 09:35:52 Welcome back! 09:35:59 -!- whtspc has quit (Client Quit). 09:43:19 That PaintFuck looks somewhat interesting. Reminds me of the ant automaton somehow. Guess it could be programmed in PaintFuck. 09:43:48 Ant automaton? You mean the 2D Turing Machine? 09:44:07 yes, well, a particular simple one 09:44:33 IIRC it was like (0>left, 1>right) and toggle on each move 09:47:22 -!- whtspc has joined. 09:47:36 hi whtspc 09:48:47 Hi 09:49:11 tigsource member increpare created universal automaton in paintf 09:49:36 sounds nice 09:49:55 ever thought of writing a JS interpreter to view online? 09:50:13 Universal automaton? 09:50:18 http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/2008/11/rule-110-in-paintfuck/ 09:50:26 Oh, 110. 09:51:07 yeah, well I'm not very good programmer, but someone is creating webbased application too 09:51:22 it would be very nice to share programs easily online 09:52:07 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:54:59 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"). 09:58:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:01:29 automata rule 110 in Paintfuck (v3) - is there an v3 paintfuck? 10:02:50 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:04:46 pgimeno, hum? 10:05:49 AnMaster: from http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt 10:06:02 Paintfuck? 10:06:04 * AnMaster googles 10:06:26 http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.msg110146#msg109146 <-- seems relevant 10:06:27 AnMaster: scroll back :) 10:11:03 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:13:53 GregorR: What do you do in the console when your local characters are not echoed? I used "reset" in that case but there's no "reset" in bin/ 10:29:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:47:30 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:53:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:56:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:59:11 -!- kt3k has joined. 12:02:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:02:15 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:08:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:19:11 -!- nooga has joined. 12:19:22 duh 12:20:14 doo 12:26:51 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:30:08 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:32:04 bbl 12:32:08 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 12:38:13 -!- SimonRC has quit ("settings"). 12:38:27 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:39:48 -!- SimonRC has quit (Client Quit). 12:39:53 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:46:59 -!- whtspc has joined. 12:50:43 -!- whtspc has left (?). 12:52:44 -!- whtspc has joined. 12:59:16 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php 13:03:40 -!- kt3k has quit ("CHOCOA"). 13:11:26 pgimeno: I saw paintfuck a while back. 13:11:27 Boooring. 13:13:24 nice pgimeno! 13:13:38 works pretty fast, especially compared to my flash 13:14:04 heh 13:14:12 Duuuude. 13:14:16 He's like right here! 13:14:17 flash is a bit slow 13:14:19 :D 13:14:28 lol, I just called it boring in front of the person who made it 13:14:29 ups :D 13:14:44 also, flash's actionscript actually tends to be faster than regular js in my experience 13:14:51 Could you make it so that it runs like an animation 13:15:11 ehird: it has one notable merit over most of the languages: there are more than just the test programs written by the creator. 13:15:15 ? 13:15:17 that would just be repeating the step() i uguess 13:15:18 *guess 13:15:31 ehh, now I have to write a version, damnit 13:15:42 whtspc: I don't know, maybe by setting up a timer 13:15:45 can't let YOU guys have all the fun 13:16:00 i should do it in haskell. so that i am speshul. 13:16:15 the animating part is the best part of it imo 13:16:21 I can totally let you guys have all the fun. 13:16:32 especially bugs are beautiful to watch :) 13:16:41 I could probably try to do it on the 2D Love Machine 9000, but it would be terrible 13:16:49 Because it only has one layer. 13:16:54 whtspc: updates are made realtime, just not shown by the browser in realtime 13:17:08 pgimeno: add a settimeout 13:17:11 after you do an instruction 13:17:12 instead o 13:17:12 f 13:17:13 step() again 13:17:14 do 13:17:16 setTimeout(step, 0) 13:17:21 that lets the browser redraw et 13:17:23 c 13:17:26 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:17:29 >:| 13:17:32 also, who wants to link me to the flash ver ) 13:17:32 :) 13:17:43 ehird: you could say it in a line 13:17:56 pgimeno: this is true. i'm typing weirdly today. 13:18:04 http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0 13:18:04 and that's what I said: whtspc: I don't know, maybe by setting up a timer 13:18:14 o 13:18:24 well i'm not one of those weird people who read things 13:18:31 windows sorry 13:18:46 whtspc: flash is cross-platform, isn't it? 13:18:54 it's a download 13:19:00 exe 13:19:03 ah 13:19:12 i can compile it as swf if you like 13:19:33 that'd be cool, I could also start up parallels :p 13:19:33 or do you think it's boooooring :) 13:19:43 hey it's boooooooooooooring until i realise the creators in here. 13:19:51 Heh. 13:19:56 then i get interested inadvertently 13:20:06 A brainfuck derivative? By jove! 13:20:10 ah ok, just kidding 13:20:18 :D 13:20:31 There's something you don't see every day! 13:21:22 pgimeno: 13:21:24 javascript:function a(){step();setTimeout(a,0);};a() 13:21:29 i wrote it for you :P 13:21:57 best program written in paintfuck yet is here: http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt 13:22:12 Slereah_: the novelty is the 2D data being shown visually 13:22:14 that could be a lot shorter 13:22:41 hmm 13:22:49 running eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*s*[n[sw*n]ss*n[se*n]ss*] with my stepper is fun 13:22:56 it goes off the edges and stuff 13:23:02 i think they'll collide in a second 13:23:07 pgimeno : Meh. 13:23:07 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 13:23:10 haha cool 13:23:15 it's overwriting the old one 13:23:17 then putting it back 13:23:19 and i like my own binary counter 13:23:22 *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*n*ss*n]sse]ne[*e]*w*[*w*]*] 13:24:03 it'd be interesting to see a Gray counter 13:24:53 p.s. pgimeno could you put my stepper as a button it's kind of awkawrd pasting it in :P 13:25:14 also, whtspc, that counter is neat 13:25:20 looks really pretty 13:25:35 ehird: I'm working in the animator but a bit more complete than that :) 13:25:46 pgimeno: how can you be more complete? its all you need :P 13:26:02 Maybe put back the +/- 13:26:04 note: if you put the thing in multiple times it goes faster 13:26:04 For COLORS :o 13:26:05 XD 13:27:09 Really curious how colours could take part in language 13:27:15 i would love to see it 13:27:30 but there's as far as I know not real use to it 13:27:31 Well, you could replace 0/1 by 0/255 13:27:39 So as to see the colors :o 13:28:02 whtspc: easier to do arithmetic 13:28:04 for numbers 0-255 13:28:10 just represent them as coloured pixels 13:28:20 i.e. it's useful as both a programming convenience and as colouromatic 13:28:52 Just put the red green blue intensity as two bits each 13:29:11 well duh that's just rgb colors 13:29:11 :P 13:29:33 Indeed. 13:29:50 It does in fact make the language more brainfuck than bool/smallfuck then? 13:29:51 whtspc: could i have a swf please? :) pgimeno's interp is a bit sketchy as far as animation goes 13:30:16 Although really, for a nice display, there should probably be one part memory and one part screen. 13:30:25 Otherwise it will be an epileptic nightmare. 13:30:33 and yeah 13:30:40 yeah working on it now, can I pack it? I can't upload from here 13:30:41 Slereah_: all the ones i've seen look fine 13:30:54 whtspc: sure.. 13:32:13 -!- nooga has joined. 13:32:14 btw, i found out about paintfuck because hideous pointed me to it, i don't know if you know him or something 13:32:49 WHO'S THIS HIDEOUS MAN 13:32:59 a person 13:33:09 http://www.willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43043 13:33:13 here you go 13:33:23 yay thanks\ 13:33:31 I only know he's at tigsource too 13:33:48 hahah 13:33:51 i codde for food 13:34:08 it's an exe :{ 13:35:05 really 13:35:08 ok again 13:35:45 http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044 13:36:22 better download it to your desktop insted of using it in a browser 13:36:26 Did you get that host for a sandwich? 13:36:28 then it gets really slow 13:36:32 thanks 13:37:13 * ehird tests it 13:37:25 There's a bfvga somewhere; it uses the 320x200-pixel video memory of that one standard VGA mode as the brainfuck array. 13:37:38 yay, it works 13:37:47 ok, now to golf a "white the whole screen" 13:38:09 what? 13:38:50 pain.swf/? 13:38:56 nooga: paintfuck 13:39:18 where's the spec 13:39:28 on some forum somewhere 13:39:30 * ehird digs up link 13:39:35 may I join? 13:39:38 *[s[e]*] 13:39:58 whtspc: wait, how does that do each square? 13:40:29 Well, let's try! 13:40:37 the screen is wrapping (what some of your collegues here find disgusting :)) 13:40:39 nooga: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0 13:41:06 BY JOVE, IT WORKS 13:41:22 I'm not sure you can compress it much more 13:41:59 ... 13:42:09 Whatever happened to Unikitten? 13:42:21 whtspc: *[[s*]*e*]* 13:42:23 my wipe-all 13:42:36 Heh. 13:42:38 Wipe. 13:44:18 * ehird writes a langton ant 13:44:55 langton? 13:45:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langton's_ant 13:45:28 good idea 13:45:36 Oh. 13:47:21 ok, reload 13:48:22 hmm 13:48:30 the problem is that you have to keep track which way you're going 13:48:33 ehird: not easy 13:48:34 yep 13:48:35 so that you know how to turn 90 degrees 13:48:51 and it's hard to do that without messing with other squares (Read: impossible) 13:49:01 you may need a 4x4 cell 13:49:01 so you'd like have to free every other step 13:49:03 and that's just ugly 13:49:03 USE COLORS :o 13:49:46 whtspc: the animation is done, in case you didn't notice :) 13:50:44 Slereah_: hey, yes! 13:50:54 whtspc: that's why colours are useful 13:51:03 you can still display graphics prettily while passing around hard-to-pass-around internal dat a 13:51:54 Plus you can make a groovy looking TM. 13:52:05 With like trippy colors. 13:52:09 whtspc: 13:52:09 *[[s*]*] 13:52:16 an inverted mover! 13:53:37 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 13:54:32 whtspc: *[[se*nwnw*se*se]*] 13:55:12 oooh! 13:55:14 pgimeno: whtspc: *[[se*nwnw*se*se]*[ne*swsw*ne*ne]*] 13:55:16 it's pretty! 13:55:23 i don't know what it does 13:55:25 but it's pretty 13:56:05 IT'S RICOCHETING EVERYWHERE 13:56:10 I KNOW 13:56:12 IT'S AWESOME 13:56:50 I wonder if it halts. 13:57:10 ehird: I like that one 13:57:18 Maybe we should make some sort of program that would determine if a particular piece of code halts. 13:57:19 Slereah_: maybe after 34587345345 years :P 13:57:25 Slereah_: INTERESTING IDEA 13:57:37 IS IT NOT 13:57:40 like I stated before, bugs can be really beautiful 13:57:53 I'LL FIRE UP MY ANALYTICAL ENGINE AND TRY IT 13:57:57 i really don't t hink it follows any discernable pattern after a while 13:58:02 it's just chaos 13:58:13 * ehird leaves it running 13:58:13 ooh 13:58:14 Well, technically, it does. 13:58:16 it seems to be eating up the whole grid 13:58:17 slowly 13:58:24 and pooping out little white dots every now and then. 13:58:26 Because it's a finite machine 13:58:27 my binary counter : *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*n*ss*n]sse]ne[*e]*w*[*w*]*] 13:59:18 hmm 13:59:22 is also beautiful with a bug in the code: *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*nn the worm actually -bounces- off squares 13:59:32 while leaving its trail 13:59:38 and it eliminates squares it bounces off 13:59:44 very cool 14:00:06 whtspc: nice 14:00:19 it looks like a turing machine 14:00:19 :P 14:02:19 pgimeno:cool! animation is indeed faster in flash than js 14:02:24 but cool 14:02:29 *[[s*nn*s*s]*[e*ww*e*e]*] 14:02:33 a slight modification of my last one 14:02:45 don't ask js too much :) 14:02:45 wonder what it'll do when it gets to the edge 14:02:52 I for myself like the fact that cellpointer is at 0,0 at the start 14:02:59 whtspc: ditto 14:03:08 oh wow 14:03:09 *[[s*nn*s*s]*[e*ww*e*e]*] 14:03:12 is amazinh 14:03:15 when it g ets to the end 14:03:25 it starts obliterating everything DIAGONALLY 14:03:34 even though it has no diagonal instructions, it's just the clashing of the two loops 14:03:53 wonder what'll happen when it drills the whole screen 14:05:01 whtspc: I believe that ideally it's an infinite grid and based the origin on that 14:05:14 nah, wrapping is what makes some of the programs cool 14:05:14 l 14:05:31 I understand 14:05:37 woo, the evil tyranny of the multiple pods has been destroyed, now it seems to be wondering about aimlessly for no reason 14:05:55 I'm actually not really a esolang-type, more a genart-type :) 14:06:07 they overlap i'd say 14:06:09 so, well, "it's just another brainfuck variant, boring..." huh? ;) 14:06:20 :) 14:06:23 pgimeno: I stab you with a fork. 14:06:26 haha 14:06:43 got to go, maybe catch you guys later 14:06:57 whtspc: it'd be nice to get it added to the wiki 14:06:58 questions or suggestions at the tigsource-link? 14:07:11 should I do that myself? 14:07:26 well, better than letting someone else 14:07:40 yeah, just put it on the wiki :) 14:07:43 :) Ok I trhought it's maybe rude to do 14:07:45 * ehird watches his program go 14:07:56 and nah, we add our own stuff to the wiki all the time, it's good for getting feedback 14:08:07 I will! thanks 14:08:09 cheers 14:08:14 *[[[n*e*]e*]*[[s*w*]w*]*] 14:08:19 takes a while to get properly started 14:08:22 but seems to be interesting past that 14:08:35 hmm 14:08:41 -!- whtspc has left (?). 14:08:48 uh by 14:08:49 e 14:08:53 oh right 14:08:55 he had to go 14:09:01 anyway, what this needs iis a bitmap->program thing, so that we can write e.g. worms 14:09:05 that slither around and eat stuff 14:09:08 on a predefined map 14:09:21 maybe even a Snake AI :P 14:10:44 nice one that last one 14:10:51 it's like... what will it do next? 14:12:14 whoa. 14:12:15 *[[se*e*e*e*e*s*s*s*s*w*w*w*w*n*n*n*n]*] 14:12:18 pretty to the max 14:13:07 wormish :) 14:16:10 this one is nice too: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.msg110154#msg110154 14:17:27 haha 14:17:45 a scroller! 14:17:48 if i leave it on forever does it wrap around? :O 14:17:57 guess so 14:19:09 yep 14:20:21 pgimeno: *[e*]*[s*[n*es*]*] 14:21:14 moving line? 14:21:24 moving two lines :P 14:24:10 gtg 14:33:16 *[e*]*ssssss*[e*]*n*[[*ne*]*se*[*se*]*ne*] 14:33:17 bouncy 14:48:21 *[[ee*]*ss*]*nw*[[*nw*]*[*se*]*[*n*]*[*s*]*[*ne*]*[*sw*]*[*e*]*[*w*]*] 14:48:32 om nom nom nom nom 14:48:40 dot likey food 14:48:46 it gets stuck :( 14:51:57 hehe, paintfuck 15:07:25 *[[e*]*[[e*]e]w*w*s*]*[*e*s*w*n*sese] 15:16:45 *[[*n*s*e*w*s*e*s*e]swsw*[*n*e*s*w*n*w*n*w*]*] 15:29:01 And I am back 15:35:51 paintfuck is funnn 15:37:11 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:37:41 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:50:24 -!- AnMaster has joined. 16:45:18 -!- Corun has joined. 17:18:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:21:57 So don't talk about that time you murdered that prostitute here. 17:22:23 will try. 17:22:44 Hey oerjan, remember that time you murdered that prostitute? 17:23:44 i don't want to talk about it. 17:24:06 Well played, oerjan, well played. 17:25:31 that blood all over the place stuff can be a bit traumatic. 17:28:00 *[[e]*[*n]*[w]*[s]*] 17:29:11 aww, it gets stuck 17:29:19 Asztal: It's pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. 17:33:33 I've made it faster by iterating several times... it seems that Firefox has a lower bound on the ms in setTimeout 17:35:38 that's true of every operating system that doesn't call itself "realtime" 17:36:03 you're only guaranteed a minimum sleep 17:36:07 as a drawback, now raising the timeout makes it work "jerky" 17:37:13 -!- Mony has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:37:21 Asztal: nice pattern for such simple rules :) 17:37:33 -!- M0ny has joined. 17:38:01 even better, *[[*e]*[*n]*[w]*[s]*] seems to generate mazes :) 17:38:09 odd ones, though 17:38:12 Having fun people? 17:40:07 This is paintfuck? 17:40:41 There should be a way to speed up the process 17:41:15 warrie: Yah. 17:41:29 nesw move in that direction, * flips bit at that point, and [] do what you expect. 17:41:35 Flip bit = white or black in the display. 17:41:56 warrie: http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044 Interp. 17:42:03 If you're on windows, willhostforfood.com/files3/7766096/pain.rar 17:42:41 Asztal: do a langton's ant! 17:42:56 *barrel roll 17:43:02 same thing 17:43:31 http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/tag/paintfuck/ <- that guy did a rule 110 automaton 17:43:46 * warrie reverses the polarity on Wine 17:44:04 I was thinking of doing conway's game of life 17:44:11 I'm guessing pain.rar is not actually the interpreter. 17:44:20 though I don't think it's as well suited as I first thought 17:44:22 warrie: It is. 17:44:23 Extract it. 17:44:26 It contains an exe. 17:44:32 But, for non-Windows: 17:44:37 http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044 17:44:38 a flash file 17:44:47 Oh, right, .rar is a compression format. 17:44:49 Azstal: one char mod of yours - *[[e]*[*n]*[w]*[*s]*] 17:45:46 err, asztal 17:47:15 btw, wanna see a spiral? 17:47:20 yes please 17:47:28 lemme type it out again 17:47:51 hmm, it would probably be hard to do langton's ant because it needs to keep state 17:47:55 yeah 17:48:00 make the squares 2x2 17:48:06 and store the direction state in some of them 17:48:07 clever 17:48:07 i guess 17:48:34 I'm trying a different approach 17:48:46 keep the state as the program's current position 17:49:18 hard anyway 17:49:43 Azstal: wn*[[n*]*s*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w*w] 17:49:47 fscks up on the last bit 17:50:32 o 17:50:47 so paintfuck. i wish i wasn't too lazy to check it out. 17:50:48 oklokok try paintfuck 17:50:59 lol 17:51:03 oklokok: 17:51:08 paintfuck in one line: 17:51:13 nesw, move pointer one that directio 17:51:13 n 17:51:19 * flip pixel at direction white/black 17:51:20 yeah k 17:51:22 yeah. 17:51:23 [] loop while black 17:51:25 tada. 17:51:26 okily 17:51:30 oh. 17:51:43 if that's it, i'm almost impressed 17:51:47 oklokok: interp: http://willhostforfood.com/files3/7766096/pain.rar 17:52:41 I'm still randomly modifying this one and it's generating some weird stuff: *[[*e]*[*n]*[w*]*[*s]*] 17:53:42 wn*[[n*]*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w] 17:53:44 a kinda spiral 17:53:48 that messes itself up 17:53:54 into many little spirals 17:54:28 Asztal: I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that one were Turing-complete. 17:54:46 quite a few look like turing machines 17:54:53 Do they? 17:54:53 It looks like a computer, indeed. 17:54:54 lessee, boolfuck without IO can be trivially imbedded into it not? so TC. 17:55:03 oerjan: yeah 17:55:07 it's based on smallfuck 17:55:08 but 17:55:12 the canvas is finite 17:55:13 very finite 17:55:15 and wrapping 17:55:17 Yeah 17:55:20 it's needed for most of the drawing trix 17:56:01 Is there a way to make the canvas bigger? 17:56:07 warrie: No. 17:56:12 there is in the javascript one 17:56:12 Not on the fast flash interp 17:56:12 Yay. 17:56:21 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php 17:56:35 This needs to be compiled, you know. 17:56:52 asz, that one is slow 17:57:29 it did get a lot faster when it was modified to get around setTimeout's restrictions 17:57:41 I haven't tried the .exe, though 17:57:58 err. 17:58:05 What's a simple language with addressable memory? 17:58:08 is [] loop while white or while black? 17:58:15 the .exe/.swf is the best 17:58:18 oklokok: for the swf, while white 17:58:23 warrie: subleq? 17:58:29 oklokok: while black 17:58:30 ehird: exe 17:58:39 oh 17:58:53 I'm confused 17:59:11 pgimeno's interp changes it 17:59:12 bu 17:59:12 t 17:59:14 for .exe 17:59:16 while black 17:59:19 err 17:59:20 while WHITE 17:59:21 sorry 17:59:22 1 = white 17:59:24 0 = black 17:59:29 i'd prefer one where background color is true. 17:59:40 oklokok: why? brainfuck starts off all 0 17:59:41 on tape 17:59:52 pgimeno: I'm not sure what package provides 'reset' :P 17:59:56 ehird: would just happen to work better for my purpose. 18:00:05 oklokok: just white out t he screen: 18:00:09 GregorR: huh? 18:00:10 *[s[e]*] 18:00:12 ehird: yes, guess i should 18:00:31 oklokok: just sprinkle some * around the loop ends, i think? 18:00:35 Nov 29 05:13:53 GregorR: What do you do in the console when your local characters are not echoed? I used "reset" in that case but there's no "reset" in bin/ 18:00:47 oh that, I forgot :) 18:01:01 *[* and *]* should work like [ and ] but with reversed polarity. i think. 18:01:08 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 18:01:08 oerjan: yeah 18:01:13 REVERSED POLAARITYYYYYYYYYYY 18:01:19 i don't believe that. 18:01:24 I think Subleq will work for my purposes. 18:01:25 um 18:01:25 why no 18:01:27 t 18:01:42 GregorR: $ dpkg -S /usr/bin/reset 18:01:42 GregorR: ncurses-bin: /usr/bin/reset 18:01:45 [ has a side-effect if you jump? 18:01:50 hm there may be something wrong if it moves... 18:01:51 oh 18:01:54 *]* 18:01:56 yes, i believe 18:02:14 pgimeno: zomg, it's in ncurses? So then I've just been sitting on it :P 18:02:18 * oerjan thinks it's ok 18:02:18 OK, I can add that to the env, easy. 18:02:32 -!- Corun has joined. 18:02:43 Now we need to figure out a reasonably fast way to compile Subleq into Paintfuck. 18:03:10 I find the concept rather painful to contemplate. 18:03:40 * warrie suddenly remembers his idea for a Compiler monad in Haskell 18:04:12 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 18:04:22 btw, if you guys save the page locally, you can modify the animstep() function to add more lines and multiply the speed further 18:04:31 argh 18:04:45 is the swf nicer, the exe can't be stopped? 18:05:00 i mean if you make it infloop, you can't stop it 18:05:09 oklokok: the swf is the exe 18:05:10 but 18:05:11 infloop without io it is 18:05:12 it's easy to stop 18:05:14 *that is 18:05:14 oklokok: empty the program box and hit run? 18:05:15 i see? 18:05:16 replace the code section with nothing 18:05:17 and press run 18:05:24 i can't, it crashed. 18:05:28 umm 18:05:30 it shouldn't 18:05:32 oh 18:05:40 abort the script, and the program didn't close 18:05:45 okay thanks flash that was nice of you 18:06:06 ehird: what happens on *[] in your end? 18:06:16 ah yeah that fails 18:06:18 but 18:06:20 [] works 18:06:21 err 18:06:22 i mean 18:06:25 other infloops work 18:06:40 yes if they have io. 18:07:01 just do 18:07:03 *[*] 18:07:18 but i don't want to look at the io flickering when i'm coding. 18:07:26 and i don't want to have to remove the code and put it back all the time 18:07:33 it's just not a nice coding experience 18:07:52 oklokok: 18:07:55 just remove all the code 18:07:55 *[*] <- PARTY HARD 18:07:57 just put nothing in 18:08:00 and run 18:08:01 then 18:08:18 ehird: yes yes. 18:11:19 Subleq has a finite number of infinite registers; Paintfuck has a 2D infinite grid of finite cells. 18:12:37 no. 18:12:42 paintfuck grid is finite 18:12:47 and small 18:13:15 Paintfuck Infinite Edition has a 2D infinite grid of finite cells. 18:13:22 :P 18:13:25 warrie: subleq has infinite number of cells 18:13:37 i think you're confusing with minsky machine 18:15:31 warrie: what oerjan said. 18:15:33 2D might help, you can store subleq cells as parallel rows 18:15:48 but better formatted 18:16:02 just plain better said. 18:16:08 Oh, it's self-modifying. 18:16:10 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 18:16:25 Okay, so an infinite number of infinite registers. 18:18:48 Only need one :P 18:19:18 is that so? 18:19:27 they're interchangeable 18:19:41 a bit hard to believe you can do with just one instruction 18:19:47 i mean 18:19:51 with just one third of an instruction 18:20:01 oklokok: I meant one of the "infinity"s 18:20:20 a few infinitely-large numbers can mimick an infinite number of registers 18:20:23 GregorR: i know what you meant 18:20:39 stop treating me like a child and start treating me like the asshole i am! 18:32:46 glaaaaahhhh i want a step-by-step 18:33:27 oklokok: there's one on pgimeonroneroenr's 18:33:46 bye 18:33:59 -!- M0ny has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 18:41:13 I was considering to add a little trace 18:42:36 but was lazy :P 18:45:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:45:59 -!- Corun has joined. 18:49:01 hehe, did rule 110, accidentally pressed c instead of ctrl+x, and removed everything just before final test \o/ 18:49:39 now i get to do it again!! 18:49:41 ctrl-z 18:49:48 jayCampbell: yeah that doesn't work. 18:50:09 oh you're in that flash app not a textarea 18:50:32 well yes, i figured it's too trivial to require anything that fancy 18:51:00 but it's quite verbose as i'm not doing it in a very clever way, just copying the rule pretty straightforwardly 18:51:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:52:05 *[[e]*[n]*[w]*[*s]*] starts off moving in a rather complicated manner. 18:53:08 um i ok 18:53:09 oklokok: 18:53:12 you can use ctrl-z 18:53:51 ehird: i can also use ctrl-r for a nop. 18:53:54 but it's not an undo 18:54:05 works for me 18:54:10 lucky you. 18:56:43 *[[e]*[*n]*[*w]*[s*]*] is really slow. 18:57:34 I think it actually counts in binary up to a power of 2 every once in a while. 18:58:38 Yeah. So, um, we'll only ever be able to see this do something *else* if we do some dramatic optimization. 18:59:01 ehird, did you know that incrementing something until it reaches a certain value is the same as setting it to that value? 18:59:15 Because, um, tell the interpreter that. :-P 18:59:24 ? 19:00:09 This program is counting in binary. Someone ought to find a way to make it skip that part. 19:03:27 i don't feel like thinking, how should 110 start 19:03:45 By toggling a single cell, I think. 19:04:09 #esoteric: Great Thinkers who Don't. 19:04:15 reversed, mine is now 19:04:15 1 19:04:18 11 19:04:22 111 19:04:24 1011 19:04:27 11111 19:04:32 100011 19:04:34 1100111 19:04:38 correct? 19:05:05 I think so. 19:05:16 okay 19:05:16 then i have 110 19:05:49 well, you have no 010 in there 19:06:03 incorrect? 19:06:06 or pun? 19:06:21 It means not all possibilities were exhausted, so give us more rows. 19:06:30 oklokok: 110 is done 19:06:31 has been done 19:06:46 ehird: that's not really a surprise, i just made it. 19:06:49 :P 19:06:52 how big is it 19:06:57 quite. 19:07:12 > Police say two handguns recovered at the scene indicate the two men shot each other. No one else in the packed store was killed or injured during the melee. 19:07:19 wasn't that technically a ranged attack? 19:07:21 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p562634344.txt 19:07:25 most of that is just for clarity 19:07:29 i could take more than half out 19:07:43 but anyway, it'd still be pretty bloated, i didn't really try, i'm so goddamn tired atm 19:07:57 _maybe_ they just beat each other with the guns 19:08:46 most of that is just copying things around and nulling parts of the screen, which i could easily do in the actual logic, that's just simpler to read. 19:08:55 oerjan: it says "shot each other", though. 19:09:04 They must have poked each other with their guns as they shot each other. 19:09:15 ehird: how big is the other one then? 19:09:25 oklokok: few pages 19:09:27 anyway, i consider that a trivial task, just wanted to see what it looks like 19:09:31 soo 19:09:32 yours is tiny 19:09:41 it's like you told me no use writing a factorial in haskell because someone did that already. 19:10:10 no. the other one was just written by a noob. 19:10:31 well 19:10:32 oklokok: you _have_ seen http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html haven't you? :D 19:10:53 I tried to write a threaded, GADT-using factorial in Haskell, but then realized the operations couldn't be defined recursively, as only one copy of each could be running at once. 19:10:58 tbh i'm not sure how to make that code *longer*, that may require more thinking than making it smaller 19:11:24 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:11:29 oerjan: i dropped off the train at some point. but that was awesome otherwise 19:11:39 ...so yes, or at least i tried 19:11:46 and good point, i guess *it's been done* :) 19:13:50 ehird: can i see the other 110? 19:14:04 its in the logs 19:14:21 :< 19:14:25 my one weakness! 19:14:28 oklokok: amazing.awesome.com 19:16:09 blergh i can't find it too hard 19:17:35 anyway i think i should go 19:17:37 like 19:17:38 away 19:17:40 off irc 19:17:41 and 19:17:42 you know 19:17:47 do other stuff 19:17:52 how's that sound? 19:18:01 http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/tag/paintfuck/ 19:18:49 well that's quite well-spaced, i doubt it's actually that much longer than mine. 19:18:51 * oklokok counts! 19:19:27 * warrie ponders Subleq in Paintfuck 19:19:39 actually i can't count, i can't open my python. 19:21:07 I guess you have rows and columns, and each column is one memory address, and numbers are stored in binary or something. Finite amounts of information can be tossed under it all. 19:22:08 * warrie ponders Paintfuck in Subleq 19:23:45 Each Paintfuck column can be two "tapes", each represented by two memory addresses. Manipulating the tapes ought to be easy enough. 19:24:21 And then you figure out how to optimize it enough that Paintfuck-in-Subleq-in-Paintfuck and Subleq-in-Paintfuck-in-Subleq don't slow things. 19:24:51 Which is really difficult. 19:24:54 lol please someone calculate the number of instructions in the two 110's so i can be at peace... :D 19:25:13 oklokok: do you have the two 110s in your possession? 19:25:18 http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt 19:25:33 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p562634344.txt 19:26:01 just remove whitespace and count characters, that's just impossible in notepad/wordpad 19:26:53 i'm bruteforcing something in python for the second day now, and only one python IDLE instance can be open at once :d 19:27:03 i mean, sometimes only one can 19:27:10 and when that happens i'd have to close it 19:27:13 but the computation would die 19:28:43 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:28:55 warrie: i assume you accepted the challenge? 19:30:09 i mean it's not like it takes more than 20 seconds 19:30:29 assuming you have python or an equivalent thingie. 19:31:05 Do a web search for "javascript character count". 19:31:22 well i have one on vjn.fi, but i'm not sure whether that counts newlines 19:31:34 oklokok: apparently, his is 951 while yours is 236 19:31:39 but I wouldn't trust this 19:31:43 Asztal: okay thanks 19:31:45 mmhmm? 19:31:52 it doesn't look like 236 to me 19:32:42 ... 19:32:54 is there a scripting language guy here..? :P 19:33:09 or should i just trust you 19:33:15 how could you have gotten it wrong 19:33:21 no way you could 19:33:22 it probably is right 19:33:24 str.bytes.count{|c| "news*[]".index c.chr} 19:33:57 rubby? 19:34:04 yes 19:34:17 I used to like it 19:34:17 is that a filter for what to count? 19:34:19 the block 19:34:22 yes 19:34:35 i don't get the index thing. 19:35:00 explainnnn 19:35:02 236 is right 19:35:06 "abc".index 'b' returns 1 19:35:16 and it returns nil if it wasn't there 19:35:30 ohhhh 19:35:42 the c.chr is the thing that's searched in the array. 19:35:45 and 0 is true 19:36:02 okay yeah i need a moment to get into ruby, never really having programmed in it. 19:36:31 I'm currently trying to get out of ruby 19:36:32 (except once did something with ehird's bot, but maybe i just fixed his code and didn't write my own don't remember) 19:36:50 the other is 918 19:37:17 hmm... oh, I included the header 19:37:21 i'm trying to do that for python, mainly because programming has lost its spark, because everything is so goddamn trivial in python. 19:37:27 yeah okay 19:37:41 well k it's not that much longer then 19:37:54 not that i can think of a way to get it at all longer 19:38:12 guess that's a skill you lose with time 19:38:20 but, now, *doing* time 19:38:20 -> 20:21:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 21:22:06 oklokok: z 21:28:00 o 21:45:29 We have changed the release model so that instead of focusing on quality and features our release is now defined by timeliness and features. Quality is not regarded to be that important. 21:45:30 -- MySQL team 21:46:21 quality is just the retarded stepdad of quantity 21:46:23 food -> 22:26:33 -!- kar8nga has joined. 22:56:21 so guys 22:56:23 hypothetically 22:56:30 if you put a cd in a slit-drive thingy 22:56:33 the wrong way 22:56:36 and it won't come out 22:56:38 what would you do 23:00:55 Look for a little hole next to the slit drive. If there's one, I stick a paper clip in it. 23:01:08 none. 23:01:45 There are fuzzy things at the top and bottom, right? 23:02:03 Prop them apart and see if you can see your CD. 23:02:42 Make sure you don't lose anything into the drive. 23:02:48 That would be expensive of you. 23:02:54 too close together, but I know the cd is there. 23:02:57 (I poked it with another CD.) 23:03:23 Oh. Just grab it and pull it out. 23:03:28 I assume your fingers are paper-thin. 23:03:32 Can't reach in. 23:03:33 :P 23:03:58 Use... hmm, I think there are very thin grabber devices, but I'm not sure what they're called. 23:04:09 Yeah um I dont'exactly have em to hand. 23:04:13 Something a lot like tweezers. 23:04:50 Hm. http://guides.macrumors.com/Force_Eject_a_Stuck_CD_or_DVD 23:05:40 Doesn't work 23:06:29 You've tried everything on the page? 23:06:51 Use tweezers, then. 23:06:55 apart from the rebooting shit 23:07:16 Well, try the rebooting shit. 23:07:38 As a last resort. 23:07:39 I'd rather not, you see. 23:07:53 Aha. 23:07:56 It wsa my damn virtual machine! 23:08:00 Stupid Parallels. 23:08:37 Your last resort ought to be using custom-made tools to get it out. 23:09:16 XD 23:09:25 last resort: open the computer and yank it out. 23:09:33 If it's stuck, smash it. 23:09:39 If that breaks the disc drive, get a new one. 23:09:43 If I can't, get a new computer. 23:09:48 If I can't afford one, become a hermit. 23:10:22 Only do that if you can't use custom-made tools to get it out. 23:10:37 Though I've always found secular asceticism admirable. 23:10:53 At least, I found it admirable from the moment I read the Wikipedia article titled "Asceticism". 23:11:32 i'm such a technojunkie, never could do that :D 23:20:37 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 23:30:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 23:47:35 -!- LinuS has joined. 23:51:01 cd's are so yesterdays newspapers. 23:51:19 warrie: hello 23:52:10 oklokok: internet connections are not really fast enough to use them for everything :P 23:52:12 usb stix, sure 23:52:58 warrie: you don't by any chance know a nice book for understanding curry-howard? i'm not getting there from the wp page, and i like to get my book suggestions from humans. 23:53:05 ehird: sure is such a strong word 23:53:14 oklokok: wat? 23:53:16 but what does it really mean? i mean is it really a word, even 23:53:18 i'm not sure 23:53:21 but you'd think it is 23:53:24 why wouldn't it be 23:53:28 shut up oklokok 23:53:29 :P 23:53:40 oh dear have i said something uneasifying?!?!?!? 23:54:22 wait 23:54:30 scratch all that, i made no sense 23:54:41 i mean until the warrie highlight, that was proper business. 23:55:38 well, oerjan probably reads at least the highlight parts of logs, so, oerjan, see above 23:57:30 oklokok: let's make paintfuck programs 23:58:46 oklokok: ello. 23:59:02 You want to understand the Curry-Howard isomorphism? 23:59:07 yes 23:59:21 * warrie ponders his various definitions of "understand" 23:59:23 mainly because it sounds like a trivial concept, but i have no idea about the specifics. 23:59:43 Can you tell me what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is? 23:59:54 it's some kinda correspondence. 23:59:56 As a question, not a request-because-I-don't-know. 2008-11-30: 00:00:09 Oh. 00:00:26 i haven't actually read about it, nor do i know anything about it. 00:00:39 I'll tell you, then. 00:00:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:00:49 except that it's some kinda natural correspondence between theorems and programs' types and such somethings yes. 00:00:57 warrie: sure, except not right now... :P 00:01:10 I'll tell you later, then? 00:01:17 yes that's okay 00:01:38 Tell me when you want me to tell you, I guess. 00:01:54 warrie: businession list for b nomic 00:01:55 XD 00:02:09 sure. will probably ask in pm unless you have some moral oblication to that. 00:02:15 do you make up a new name every time 00:02:19 ehird: you finally noticed. I've had it set that way for years. :-) 00:02:38 "You finally noticed" meaning "you're the first one to notice". 00:02:40 warrie: I remember when you registered to "discussion list for B Nomic " 00:02:52 i remember being really confused. 00:03:15 That's because Gmail filled in "discussion list for B Nomic" , and I replaced the "discuss" with "business". 00:03:20 yep 00:03:21 :D 00:03:26 warrie: set a-b as "business list for B Nomic" 00:03:28 Since that seemed to cause confusion, I also replaced the other "discuss" with "business". 00:03:29 and s-b as "Agora Business" 00:04:40 hey oklokok 00:04:45 a-b is "B Nomic list for Agora", s-b is "B Nomic list for Spoon", a-d is "discussion list for Agora", and s-d is "discussion list for Spoon". 00:04:45 let's write game of life in paintfuck 00:04:47 can't bee hard 00:04:47 *be 00:04:54 warrie: no, that's easily spottable 00:04:58 make it so that people are confused 00:04:59 how about: 00:05:04 a-b = discussion list for B Nomic 00:05:07 a-d = business list for B Nomic 00:05:10 s-b = Agora Discussion 00:05:14 s-d = Agora Business 00:05:34 oklokok: game of life can't be hard right? 00:06:39 I'm sure Game of Life wouldn't be hard. 00:06:43 It might be tedious, but not hard. 00:07:02 I just realized that many puzzles are hard to do non-tediously. 00:09:25 *[[e]*[*n]*[*w]*[s*]*] is still running, by the way. I know exactly what it's going to do for about the next 2^40 steps, which is annoying, because I'd rather tell it than wait that long. Someone update that interpreter to let me alter memory by clicking on it. 00:10:22 warrie: Use pgimenos 00:10:28 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php 00:10:33 You can give it step count etc 00:10:33 Okay. 00:10:36 but for animation it's slow 00:10:38 so use the flash one 00:11:16 also warrie 00:11:17 with that one 00:11:23 write a program that puts the memory in the right state 00:11:25 then use the program 00:14:09 warrie: Doesn't it just sit there after a while? 00:15:16 *[[e*]*[*n]*[w*]*[s*]*] <- Machine-esque behaviour. 00:15:27 With pgimenos I can't click it to edit memory? 00:15:32 No. 00:15:39 But you can set N = 100,000 00:15:42 and press run/continue a lot 00:15:51 Or, you could write a program to set the memory to how it should be from the c urrent state 00:15:51 run it 00:15:53 then run your program 00:16:07 *[[e*]*[*n]*[w*]*[s*]*] sure does seem to have a plan. 00:16:47 Huh, it's getting rid of its bars. 00:17:07 Haha it's like it's building a house 00:17:12 warrie: Watch *[[e*]*[*n]*[w*]*[s*]*] in the flash interp 00:18:31 Wow. 00:19:12 You know, I think it might be turing comelpt 00:19:17 It looks it after a while. 00:19:32 It moves about lines and bashes them into things then weaves and unweaves stuff transforming it over time. 00:21:54 It's funny how one basic program structure, only changing the placing of *s and the ordering of the items 00:21:57 can produce so many combinations 00:21:59 many of which look TC 00:22:29 *[[e*]*[*n]*[w*]*[*s]*] 00:23:33 Eliot Hird on Solving the Halting Problem Using Visual Approximations of Turing Completeness 00:23:43 jayCampbell: lol wat 00:23:45 also *Elliott 00:26:40 jayCampbell was just being modest, ehird. 00:26:40 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:27:05 *[[e]*[n]*[w*]*[*s]*] 00:27:11 Seems interesting, at least. 00:27:14 Pretty, certainly. 00:34:15 *[[e*e*]*[n*]*[ww*]*[*s]*] it's prodding at memory :O 00:34:30 using an increasing-height stick XD 00:36:22 GregorR: for JSMIPS, i recommend that you allow it to idle a little; firefox gave me the "unresponsive script" warning 4 times when i was loading vim. also, when do you think you'll have write support working? 00:36:37 it does idle 00:36:43 GreaseMonkey: write works ... it writes to memory ^^ 00:36:44 setTimeout(function () { this.step() }, 0) 00:36:50 i know because i wrote that line :\ 00:37:15 then what's the problem with the "Operation not supported" thing in vim? 00:37:27 GreaseMonkey: Non-existent on my system :P 00:37:43 what operation is it supposed to be? 00:37:51 What? What are you talking about? 00:38:02 i believe it to be a syscall 00:38:08 and an unimplemented one 00:38:11 Where do you see this message? 00:38:13 CONTEXT, CONTEXT 00:38:18 when i open vim 00:38:27 just before i start working on a file 00:38:34 X_X 00:38:38 What is the ACTUAL MESSAGE PRODUCED 00:39:11 it was number 296, something about seeking in a swap file, and operation not supported. 00:39:47 GreaseMonkey: Y'know, I fixed the copy/paste problem ... you can copy and paste. 00:40:00 GregorR: it got cleared though >_> 00:40:08 SO DO IT AGAIN 00:40:10 and it took at least 5 minutes to load vim 00:40:14 uh 00:40:16 it shouldn't 00:40:19 GreaseMonkey: Your compute is slow, isn't it :P 00:40:21 *computer 00:40:32 1.44GHz AMD Athlon XP 1900 single-core? 00:40:37 Hahaha 00:40:41 It takes ~30 seconds here. 00:40:57 GreaseMonkey: Wow that's awful 00:40:58 Lemme guess, Firefox 1? :P 00:41:02 firefox 2 00:41:08 GreaseMonkey: Upgrade you moron. 00:41:09 lemme guess, firefox 3.1? 00:41:16 Why are we loading vim in 30 seconds? 00:41:18 Yup :) 00:41:23 There's absolutely no reason to use ff2. 00:41:24 Firefox 3 has much faster JS support. 00:41:26 TraceMonkey 00:41:35 warrie: http://codu.org/jsmips/ 00:41:35 Apart from irrational and unfounded hatred of the awesomebar 00:41:37 that's what it's called 00:41:50 GreaseMonkey: I'm aware :P 00:42:16 i do happen to have firefox 3 as well, but that's a windows version, and i've been lazy 00:42:30 Yeah, but so's your face. 00:42:47 nevertheless, wine still works 00:42:52 GreaseMonkey: welp, upgrade or suffer. 00:43:09 AT THE HANDS OF EHIRD 00:43:14 ehird: fun with compiling 30MB of sources... 00:43:42 GreaseMonkey: You're so hardcore, you compile everything from source! 00:43:52 ehird: Yeah, but so's your face. 00:43:55 * GregorR is working on Nethack now. 00:43:58 ehird: i have freebsd. 00:44:00 Nethack = best use of JSMIPS EVAR 00:44:11 GregorR: YES :D :D :D =D =D =D =D 00:44:25 GreaseMonkey: I wish I could be as cool as you! Compiling everything! Oh! You're so 1337! What do you mean, pointless? Unf unf unf unf. 00:44:28 I prefer worthwhile things, like trying to get permission to do something I'm allowed to do anyway. 00:44:29 I think Firebug doesn't work as well with Firefox 3 :( 00:44:47 get w3m running so we can run jsmips in it 00:44:56 Sgeo: yes it does 00:44:57 also, when i say that it takes 5 minutes to load, that's how long it takes to get to the first screen 00:45:00 the main devs use ff3. 00:45:16 it even works fine with the 3.1 nightlies too 00:45:51 296: Seek error in swap file: Operation not supported 00:47:00 Hrm. 00:47:56 there's a few keystrokes you may want to convert 00:48:03 i'm not sure why insert gives me a dash 00:48:09 but backspace gives 0x08 00:48:12 (^H) 00:48:21 which would probably work better with 0x7F 00:48:39 i put that in 00:48:41 probably 00:48:45 i did the fancy input code 00:49:22 munomanimuniminimunani 00:49:41 * GreaseMonkey is compiling firefox 3.0.4 00:50:06 should i do that while copying across all the freebsd 7.1-BETA2 files? 00:50:18 * GreaseMonkey uses 7.1-PRERELEASE 00:50:54 # factor 543823 00:50:56 0 00:50:57 Ouch! 00:51:07 543823 is a number 00:51:30 in fact you can prove by induction that all numbers are numbers 00:51:48 n <=> n 00:52:28 firefox-3.0.4-source.tar.bz2 is 35MB 00:52:44 GreaseMonkey: use a fcking binary >_< 00:52:52 GreaseMonkey: that's circular logic...... 00:52:53 ehird: I fancied up the input code more. 00:52:54 ehird: this is freebsd. 00:52:59 GreaseMonkey: And? 00:53:08 Do you have to be a retard to use FreeBSD? 00:53:10 ehird: Previously it only accepted ASCII, now it does control codes etc (the software just doesn't interpret them usefully ;) ) 00:53:15 Are you required to compile all your own binaries? 00:53:17 For no good reason? 00:53:18 Wonderful. 00:53:30 ehird: unless you want to get them from packages 00:53:37 And why wouldn't you. 00:53:41 in which case you'd yell at me for getting old crap 00:53:43 stop making sense, it's very late and you should be saying random nonsense like meeeeeee 00:53:51 GreaseMonkey: Woo! FreeBSD! 00:53:55 Good at sucking. 00:53:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 00:54:00 * ehird it's alte 00:54:00 late 00:54:02 ehird: what do you run? 00:54:09 raw hardware 00:54:12 oklokok: The air was religion with suppressed excitement! 00:54:12 i am uberleet 00:54:19 no, really 00:54:31 also, you don't get binaries for linux unless you get them from your "vendor" 00:54:39 otherwise it's just stupid 00:54:42 yes GregorR how about a nice bowl of eggs on top of that ;) 00:55:00 maybe sleep?!?? ->' 00:55:08 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. S, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 00:55:13 GreaseMonkey: so why does your 'vendor' suck 00:55:15 :| 00:55:50 ehird: my "vendor" supplies me with very fresh ports scripts, and all i have to do is fetch them 00:55:52 I can't get man to work without consuming massive amounts of RAM :( 00:56:07 GreaseMonkey: and spend 6345345 hours compiling them for no game 00:56:08 wooooooo 00:56:11 your vendor sucks. 00:56:37 ehird: it actually compiles reasonably fast. 00:56:49 still needless. 00:57:03 For anybody who didn't get my reference, you need to watch this: http://brothersmcleod.co.uk/films/watch/23 00:57:19 if you love binaries, then get your sad ass back on windows. 00:57:31 because binaries are acceptable on windows. 00:58:11 freebsd has a low memory footprint, btw 00:58:48 also, if you've used freebsd before, their newest scheduler works really really well 00:58:56 *yawn* 01:00:39 GreaseMonkey: Go back to windows! Binaries are not acceptable because... because I say so! 01:00:40 Raaar! 01:01:22 ehird: windows is not acceptable because it's an underpackaged antifeatured flaming pile of dogshit 01:01:36 Yes, you've explained why Windows is not acceptable. 01:01:42 Now explain why binaries aren't. Without changing the subject. 01:01:46 Which you've done about 3 times already. 01:02:33 well, if someone gives you a binary, and you don't have the right libc, it shits itself. 01:02:47 I thought your vendor was meant to do it? 01:02:49 whereas if someone gives you the source, you can actually get it to link correctly 01:02:52 You know, just like your vendor has to maintain your portfiles. 01:03:20 your vendor actually ensures that the binaries you get actually work on your system. 01:03:36 *yawn* 01:03:48 You're saying your vendor doesn't test its portfiles? Neato. Sounds stable. I'm going now. 01:03:59 actually, my vendor does. 01:04:02 *yawn* 01:04:03 *yawn* 01:04:03 *yawn* 01:04:04 *yawn* 01:04:06 *yawn* 01:04:08 *yawn* 01:04:09 :( ) 01:04:14 wait, make that 01:04:16 X( ) 01:04:17 Can we stop with the OS/distro wars already, yeesh 01:04:21 k. 01:04:31 *[[e*s*]*[n*w*]*[e*n]*[*s*w]*] 01:04:39 ^ what is that stuff, btw? 01:04:43 Asztal: That made my brain hurt :P 01:05:04 is it like a 2d brainfuck? 01:05:12 s/brain/small/ 01:05:13 thankfully I'm not trying to make actual programs in it, just pretty patterns 01:05:21 yes 01:05:26 yay. 01:06:06 it's pretty trivial to program in 01:07:01 there's a couple of BF extensions i like: "if true", and "while false". 01:07:12 LAME 01:07:16 although that shouldn't be so hard to fix up in a 1-bit version. 01:08:03 yes those are pretty lame 01:08:18 saves on memory 01:08:46 although in a 1-bit version, "while false" is pretty pointless. 01:09:01 {...} = *[* ... *]* 01:09:46 btw, i prefer befunge to bf. 01:09:58 who doesn't 01:10:31 befunge is probably one of the most practical esolangs 01:10:37 well, befunge-98, that is 01:10:55 that's what they all say 01:10:58 but befunge-93 is still pretty practical, if you remove the board size limit 01:16:07 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:53:43 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:54:06 -!- GregorR has joined. 01:54:37 got it working: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck-langton.pfk 01:56:40 needs 128x128 to see the repeated pattern at work 01:58:05 yay langton's ant \o/ 02:04:02 # ./hexagrid.rb 02:04:02 "48656C6C6F20576F726C6421" 02:04:02 "Hello World!" 02:04:13 another one bites the dust 02:09:50 For some reason loading a 2MB file temporarily takes 2GB of memory X_X 02:14:02 how are you storing the values? 02:15:16 It takes up 2GB just in the process of DOWNLOADING it, before I've processed it at all. It's just storing a base64-enc'd string at that piont. 02:15:18 *point 02:17:17 weird. 02:17:32 yay, i have two native versions of firefox now \o/ 02:17:42 and when i switch between them, it acts like i've upgraded 02:17:54 even when going from 3 -> 2 02:18:11 lol 02:21:29 btw, what do you use as a MIPS compiler?> 02:23:56 according to ls -l, /bin/vim is about 4MB 02:24:14 and here, it takes up roughly 200MB to look at it 02:25:00 once it's cached, it uses up about 150MB 02:25:07 wait 02:25:19 about 200MB to look, when cached it'd take up about 100MB 02:25:48 -!- cathyal has joined. 02:26:04 anyone whose good with functional programming languages 02:26:51 anyways: 296: Seek error in swap file write: Not supported 02:26:52 303: Unable to open swap file for "[No Name]", recovery impossible 02:26:52 ress ENTER or type command to continue 02:27:01 cathyal: like what? 02:27:31 HAskell, scala, etc 02:28:54 um, i don't do any of those 02:29:16 i've worked with perl, python, php, lua, javascript 02:29:35 and then there's C, various types of ASM, various types of BASIC 02:30:04 I'm familiar with functional languages. 02:30:56 Now is the time for a new-kernel-reboot. See ya in 2.6.26-land. 02:31:04 oh, thanks for reminding me 02:31:07 i need to install 02:31:55 and then i'll be in 7.1-BETA2-land 02:32:15 which includes part of the userland, too 02:32:28 since when did *you* upgrade your userland? 02:34:42 ok, here's a uname -a for comparison 02:34:45 FreeBSD roflcopter.mshome 7.1-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE #3: Sun Oct 19 10:56:35 NZDT 2008 root@roflcopter.mshome:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 02:35:06 it's still messing around with man pages 02:35:22 yay, installing kernel 02:35:36 crap, i'm going to have to recompile my graphics drivers 02:38:13 right, rebooting 02:38:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 02:40:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:41:00 FreeBSD roflcopter.mshome 7.1-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE #4: Sat Nov 29 16:08:06 NZDT 2008 ben@roflcopter.mshome:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 02:41:15 ...i'm gutted it's still called 7.1-PRERELEASE 02:41:21 but i can tell you, it's definitely an upgrade 02:41:24 well, slightly 02:41:34 as a fair amount of files were downloaded 02:42:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 03:02:56 -!- cathyal has quit. 03:18:44 jayCampbell: mind if I delete the JayCampbell page from the main articles? the right name should be your full name anyway... 03:22:03 please do, my User:JayCampbell page is what i'm using now 03:22:14 i tried to delete JayCampbell but wasn't allowed 03:29:15 do you want me to delete the user talk page as well? 03:55:29 booya 03:55:37 got an interpreter running for http://esolangs.org/wiki/WALP 03:56:05 using unix-clear-as-poor-mans-video-redisplay 04:05:47 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:06:01 -!- Corun has joined. 04:19:53 posted 04:19:59 ehird, write Hello World 04:21:14 guys 04:21:41 you know how some languages are lazy in evaluating conditional bodies? 04:22:11 f'rinstance all the scripting languages 04:22:25 i suppose. i know some do, i dont know about all, but ok 04:22:27 anyway :P 04:22:40 are there any languages that dont even /parse/ until they need to? 04:22:57 shore 04:23:00 like uh 04:23:51 apple basic 04:23:56 yesssssss 04:25:29 you /can/ do that several ways in any reflective language 04:25:43 i can't think of a production language that's lazy parse 04:39:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/ThaM <-- when poping from an empty stack, should the program crash or give a constant (i.e. zero)? 04:40:21 i'd personally go with giving a constant 05:06:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:07:52 as long as the constant can't be normal data 05:19:03 -!- psygnisf_ has quit ("Leaving..."). 05:37:46 My newest discovery: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Schrodilang 06:13:16 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:13:44 -!- Slereah_ has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | o rly HABEEB IT. 06:22:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:28:00 well, oerjan probably reads at least the highlight parts of logs, so, oerjan, see above 06:28:07 They're on to me. 06:29:00 also, i haven't read any books on curry-howard. i just sort of absorb it through osmosis. maybe. 06:29:53 * oerjan realizes he is probably the only one awake 06:30:09 sunday mornings are like that. 06:30:47 Yes, you are alone, oerjan 06:30:51 How does it feel? 06:31:10 awful 06:31:17 wait a moment... 06:32:20 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:JayCampbell/walp.rb 06:32:42 hey, can one not get a moment's peace in this channel? 06:33:05 bursting in like a herd of buffalo... 06:33:20 Sorry buddy. 06:33:29 We can't just leave you by yourself 06:33:33 God knows what you'd do. 06:33:38 true, that could be dangerous 07:18:16 i can't think of a production language that's lazy parse 07:18:26 seems rather counterproductive :D 07:19:25 also, INTERCAL may be lazy parse, parse errors don't apply unless the command is actually run 07:19:45 although the compilers obviously parse in advance anyway 07:20:43 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 07:22:27 My newest discovery: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Schrodilang 07:23:02 the programming language with a half-life 07:27:00 Meh. 07:27:12 Nuh? 07:33:46 -!- whtspc has joined. 07:34:31 btnvwls? 07:35:48 -!- whtspc has quit (Client Quit). 07:38:30 how do you tell if a 2d language is turing complete 07:38:48 that's rhetorical 07:39:12 trying to figure out what else could be emulated in walp 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:57 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:07:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 08:12:20 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 08:38:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/ThaM <-- made an interpreter :) 08:49:15 woot 08:51:37 your piet-q interpreter is 404 08:54:16 ... and of cource a bf interpreter in thaM, http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p352643611.txt ... though values values in the cells are unlimited 08:54:59 i did this today http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:JayCampbell/walp.rb but don't know how to tell if it's turing complete 08:55:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 08:56:41 only one variable with a 255 max value, but with an expanded grid i can't rule out the possibility 08:57:53 i almost see how to parse bf with it 08:57:54 almost 09:00:05 How would you represent the infinite tape? 09:00:19 s/parse/convert bf to/ 09:01:08 heck if i know 09:02:04 i might be able to simulate Very Large Numbers with branching and pool resets 09:02:40 i'm only mucking with this crap bastard of a befunge derivative because it was unimplemented 09:06:00 i'm going to implement jumpfuck or weave tomorrow 09:11:19 Hmm... In Weave, when operating on the global array; Does each thread have it's own memory pointer? If so, is that different from the pointer to the local array? 09:13:48 If I had to choose, I'd go with 'yes' on both questions. 09:32:01 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:52:00 Does any of you know his Mathematica? 10:00:34 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:15:00 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:29:23 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:29:58 -!- kar8nga has joined. 10:39:13 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:39:16 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 10:45:10 -!- lostgeek has joined. 10:45:20 hi! 10:46:39 Hello. 10:46:43 Are you lost? 10:47:15 no.. I think I found the right place ;) 10:47:55 someone on the PaintF*** thread mentioned this channel 10:48:51 And here it is! 10:48:57 \o/ 10:49:43 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:50:25 So what brings you to our fine channel? 10:50:37 Are you seeking to purchase some weed? 10:50:39 -!- whtspc has joined. 10:50:52 Hey Lostgeek 10:51:00 hi whtspc 10:51:09 Hello dude. 10:51:23 I can't get your application starting 10:51:26 I got to be dumb 10:51:30 ? 10:51:35 try java -jar PaintFuck.jar 10:52:21 I'll add some nice buttons to use it without the command line later 11:00:02 Ok sorry got it working 11:00:07 Very nice 11:00:11 fast :) 11:00:36 could be faster. but this way I could even make it interactive so that you can add commands while it is running :) 11:01:09 I'm seeking for a matching ']‘ everytime I find a '[‘ 11:01:14 I like to watch while it's running, so it doesn't have to be too fast 11:01:30 why? 11:02:07 I do it the other way round 11:02:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 11:02:44 oh wait. right. 11:02:55 when I find a '[' I add the pointer to a stack 11:03:15 and if I need to jump out of the loop I seek the matching ']' 11:03:44 I don't remember my code well, when I was coding at 2 am ;) 11:05:03 I see 11:10:00 It's very nice I hope you continue development 11:10:11 It would be cool to have input grid 11:11:40 -!- lostgeek_ has joined. 11:21:50 -!- whtspc has left (?). 11:22:25 -!- whtspc has joined. 11:23:55 -!- whtspc has left (?). 11:25:54 -!- lostgeek has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:26:10 -!- lostgeek_ has changed nick to lostgeek. 11:27:01 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 11:41:25 -!- Dewi has joined. 12:01:55 -!- Mony has joined. 12:03:32 plop 12:03:46 BOOOOOOOOOM 12:03:52 HEADSHOT 12:04:01 :) 12:07:44 don't know if some people missed this... http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck-langton.pfk 12:08:26 Langton's ant in Pfk 12:11:11 nice 12:14:17 mh... doesn't work with my interpreter... 12:17:46 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:18:08 aaah works 12:22:15 great :) 12:22:37 I've prepared an uncommented version, I'll put it in the wiki 12:23:36 what are "atomic statements"? 12:26:35 -!- whtspc has joined. 12:27:39 atomic statements: someone called them that: [*] will always make current cell 0 12:28:31 I don't know the programmers term for it 12:28:41 oh I see 12:28:46 [*]* makes current cell 1 12:28:56 always 12:29:17 well, these are just common language constructions, I don't think it's necessary to mention them 12:29:26 mind if I erase that part? 12:29:32 no go ahead 12:30:25 what's your timezone? 12:30:33 amsterdam 12:30:42 it's now 13.30 12:30:45 then CET, I guess 12:30:46 yeah 12:30:52 yep 12:31:04 is the announcement time in the wiki in CET? 12:31:14 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:31:18 no 12:31:28 UTC? 12:31:29 Yes. 12:31:44 Ultra Turing Complete? 12:31:49 Like Megatron? 12:31:56 whtspc? 12:32:12 November 30, 2008, 04:31:31 AM there at the moment 12:32:13 new release: http://lostgeek.de/doku.php/en/geekness/paintfuck/interpreter 12:32:30 oh.. maybe I should include an jar file *g* 12:32:34 s/an/a 12:32:53 don't know what time that is 12:33:05 there = the forum? 12:34:42 done.. :) 12:35:13 I guess that would be PST 12:35:51 it's San Diego, USA 12:35:56 should be PST 12:46:17 great lostgeek, love generating at pixel-level 12:46:32 thumbs up 12:46:45 :) 12:46:59 what should I add next? 12:47:13 bitmap export 12:47:19 :) 12:47:22 yeeeeeeeah 12:47:25 animated gif export :P 12:47:36 mh. gif in java *thinks* 12:47:44 don't know if there are libraries for that 12:48:06 do we have a weather bot in this channel? need to know if its raining :D 12:48:17 I'm hesitating whether to include Paintfuck in the 2D languages. I'd say it's not. Opinions? 12:48:25 any movie-format will do mpg, avi :) 12:48:30 you'll be my hero 12:48:41 I'll see what I can do :) 12:48:43 I think not 12:48:51 mh. lets try 12:48:53 .weather cologne 12:48:58 :/ 12:49:08 *stands up and opens the window* 12:49:21 meh. raining 12:49:39 the language itself isn't 2d 12:50:03 the language makes creating 2d only easier 12:50:07 oklokok: do you have an userpage in the wiki? 12:50:49 it's a language with a 2d data storage. the language itself isn't 2d 12:51:51 whtspc: mind to give a real name? 12:52:31 actually yes, 12:52:36 oh 12:52:38 but it's Wouter Visser 12:52:43 You may include it 12:52:58 okay, thanks 12:53:06 thanks to you 12:53:17 GIFCanvas is a small Javatm package (9.6 KB uncompressed) to display Animated GIF89a images. 12:53:28 yeah :) 12:53:43 now I need one to create them :) 12:56:03 ok, cleaned it up 13:15:36 pgimeno: nice, I still need to learn alot :) thanks 13:16:49 -!- whtspc has left (?). 13:17:19 -!- whtspc has joined. 13:17:29 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"). 13:20:48 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:21:22 love Schrdilang!!! 13:21:46 oh, I misspelled it 13:21:51 Schrodilang 13:25:57 now I need one to create them :) 13:25:59 argh 13:26:08 wrong terminal 13:35:32 wrong terminal 13:35:35 arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh 13:35:40 wait a second 13:36:10 -!- lostgeek has quit ("leaving"). 13:36:44 -!- lostgeek has joined. 13:52:48 hi guys 13:53:09 a disturbing amount of traffic here due to paintfuck :p 13:54:09 hm 13:54:59 wow, http://arxiv.org/abs/nlin/0306022v1 13:56:49 * ehird clicks. but if it's something amazing and on arxiv it's probably bullshit? 13:57:21 hm 13:57:29 that was proved in 2000 13:57:30 iirc 13:57:37 yes that's from 2000 13:57:44 I just didn't know :) 13:58:34 well actually from 2002 14:00:39 http://www.project-euh.com/pong/? 14:02:52 -!- lostgeek has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:07:09 ehird: that doesn't work :-( 14:07:21 the objects don't actually move 14:07:33 does 14:07:38 SimonRC: adjust your browse 14:07:40 r 14:07:44 it's stopping scripts resize/move windows 14:07:50 it'll be somewhere in your settings 14:12:37 pgimeno: that langton... 14:12:38 you are a god 14:12:56 you know all paintfuck needs? 14:13:01 I'm not :) 14:13:03 , from brainfuck to get a key from the keyboard. 14:13:11 pong, except playable 14:13:18 where you're actually playing on the program's memory 14:13:20 = awesome 14:14:13 I'm just touched by His Noodly Appendage 14:14:20 :D 14:14:29 the fsm approves of langton's ant 14:14:34 pgimeno: i don't see it tracking state 14:14:40 is it in the actual "head" 14:14:42 i.e. too quick to see it 14:14:45 yes 14:14:50 neat 14:14:50 step to see it 14:14:59 it actually runs fast. 14:15:16 i wish it was a bti shorter though, it would seem like this should be "easy" in paintfuck 14:15:36 the east check is consuming, I'm writing a fixed version 14:15:53 but I have a requirement for this version that will make it longer 14:16:01 what requirement? 14:16:15 that all 4 subcells of cells are filled, not just the NW subcell 14:16:28 pgimeno: ah, are there spaces between them? 14:16:38 if you're storing state in the head, surely you could make them just one cell 14:16:48 because only the head needs state 14:17:39 I need 4 cells for state for performance... maybe I can shorten it to 2... 14:18:07 pgimeno: yes, but you only need state in the head 14:18:13 the actual trail can be just one-cell, can't it? 14:18:30 wait, is this langton's ant in PF? 14:18:34 yes but where do you do calculations? 14:18:36 SimonRC: yeah 14:18:36 SimonRC: yes 14:18:39 SimonRC: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck-langton.pfk 14:18:41 pgimeno: at the head 14:18:50 have a 4-cell head that walks around, and leaves a trail of one-squares 14:18:56 ehird: and how do you do calculations without messing the state? 14:19:17 pgimeno: leave a blank cell(s) in the head for calculation 14:19:25 why does the state need to be on-grid? 14:19:27 ehird: you're welcome to design such 14:19:28 then one langton square = one square 14:19:31 SimonRC: memory = grid 14:19:32 in paintfuck 14:19:40 how much state is there? 14:19:40 nesw, *, and [] 14:19:45 (* = flip bit) 14:19:47 SimonRC: depends on interp 14:19:49 SimonRC: I didn't see any way to keep it in the program flux 14:19:55 pgimeno: ah, ok 14:19:58 anything from 100x100 to 1000x1000 i guess 14:20:32 it's an interesting thing because you have to design your prorgams so that they 'think' in their output 14:20:38 effectively OCRing it each iteration 14:24:13 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:24:30 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:26:08 how much state is there? <- if you mean in Langton's ant then it's just 2 bits of information 14:26:51 namely the last move's direction 14:27:23 pgimeno: i think that would work with a grid like this: 14:28:11 xz 14:28:12 yab x,y = last dir, z = pointer, a,b = calc space 14:28:14 as the head 14:28:25 and one-square trail, i'd have to think about it :P 14:30:29 I just could think of creating a blank row or column at the head's position for extra storage and calculation and scroll the rest as the head is moved, but that would take forever 14:30:51 it already takes forever 14:30:51 :D 14:31:08 it's moderately fast now 14:48:00 If TDWTF goes downhill noticeably in the future, we could pick this article as the Shark-Jumping moment: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/nice_num,-mean_programmer.aspx 14:48:35 a nicely-written C function gets a whole front-page article to itself 14:49:10 it formats numbers by "using goofy modulus math". 14:49:17 OFFS 14:49:41 SimonRC: hey, you copied a reddit headline 14:49:43 well done :-P 14:49:56 huh? 14:50:00 also, the daily wtf jumped the shark like years ago 14:50:17 SimonRC: reddit had a story a few adys ago about it basically saying the same thing 14:50:35 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7g8qf/nice_code_stupid_submitter_in_which_thedailywtf/ 14:50:41 ah, reddit is YAW2S 14:50:55 reddit is pretty old. 14:51:04 early 2005 sorta thing. 14:51:41 * ehird reminisces of the days before lolcats game, when the front page looked approximately like "Lisp calvin and hobbes haskell" 14:51:47 *came. 14:52:05 * ehird would reminisce of the days when it was written in lisp [they moved to python] but wasn't around for that. 14:56:44 heh 14:57:25 and 2005 is, like, late medieval in computer years 14:57:55 yep 14:57:56 hmm, that sounds a bit off actually 14:58:20 i think reddit appeared just before the web two point ohhhh boom 14:58:59 it's funny that the dailywtf article mentions all that is sensible with the function, while missing the actual bugs, like what happens to LONG_MIN and what happens if long happens to be 64-bit 14:59:51 or maybe they've just successfully trolled a *lot* of people without them noticing 15:00:31 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:01:36 the guy who does the code snippets these days seems to know ruby and java and naught else 15:01:37 soo 15:09:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:11:01 ok, this is how it SHOULD have been done (three at a time): http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/nice_num.txt 15:11:19 (N.B. IT IS A JOKE) 15:11:29 That *would* be a WTF candidate. 15:11:46 DISCLAIMER: JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE 15:11:56 pgimeno: beautiful! 15:12:42 heh 15:13:04 that of assigning an external buffer is lame, when you can return the local buffer :P 15:14:01 oh, there's a bug 15:14:16 the for condition should be n > buf + 1 15:14:45 hey, that buffer is stack-allocated! surely that doesn't work :P 15:14:48 pgimeno: i think it's entirely a bug :P 15:15:07 hehe, apart from that 15:16:10 olsner: I don't pretend it to work, I was joking :P 15:16:25 oh, okay 15:16:30 * SimonRC seems to recall one of the Schildt books recommending returning a pointer to a local array at one point, because it was likely to be ok in that situation. 15:16:54 scary 15:17:04 pgimeno: yeah, well he's Schildt 15:17:04 yeah, but... 15:17:06 that's schildt. 15:17:08 haha 15:17:08 snap 15:17:12 indeed 15:17:40 *likely* to be ok? 15:17:43 [[In addition to his work as a computer scientist, Schildt is the original multi-keyboardist for the progressive rock band Starcastle, appearing on all of the group's albums, most of which were produced from 1976-1978]] 15:17:45 this scares me 15:18:52 olsner: yeah, as long as you use it immediately after the function returns it probabl woon't have been overwritten, is the reasoning I think 15:28:54 http://music.sympatico.msn.ca/newsandfeatures/contentposting_ontherecord?newsitemid=1fa0a490-9979-4671-be6a-652113d8724d&feedname=MusicNewsBlog&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False 15:29:00 wat 15:29:44 -!- lostgeek has joined. 15:29:55 re 15:30:14 hi lostgeek 15:30:17 your interp is fast. 15:30:34 and java too but oh well 15:30:36 :P 15:30:52 :) 15:30:54 lostgeek: 15:30:57 couldn't flip() be: 15:31:09 grid[gridPointer[0]][gridPointer[1]] = ~grid[gridPointer[0]][gridPointer[1]]; 15:31:15 and ... not be in a method? 15:31:19 it'd be faster, probably? 15:31:30 ah, wait 15:31:32 you don't prepare 15:31:33 *preparse 15:31:38 don't think that it's much faster and flip() is better to read 15:31:45 this is a perfect oppertunity for me to make a lightning fast interp 15:31:58 using the HI TECH display mechanism of "VT-100" 15:32:04 and I'm planning a >2-ary version of brainfuck :) 15:32:14 with colors and such :) 15:33:21 lostgeek: suggestion - add a textbox like the other interps 15:33:26 it just kind of "fits" with the lang 15:33:36 * ehird 's interp won't have one due to lazy, but yours uses a proper gui lib and stuff so 15:34:01 I never saw the other interpreter 15:34:16 pain.swf? 15:34:19 or pain.exe or whatever 15:34:22 an 15:34:23 and 15:34:24 pain.exe 15:34:28 grid[gridPointer[0]][gridPointer[1]] 15:34:28 err 15:34:29 _.exe_ on a mac ;) 15:34:31 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php 15:34:40 lostgeek: i'm on a mac too 15:34:44 that's why i used the .swf 15:34:53 http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044 15:35:04 and the pgimeno one is in JS 15:35:26 yeah. next version will have something like that 15:35:57 but I _hate_ swing so maybe it'll take a while ;) 15:36:28 why are you even using java :-P 15:36:45 java is cool and multiplatform 15:36:56 there are plenty of cool & multiplatform languages 15:37:02 like...every scripting one. :-P 15:37:09 well yeah. but I use java ;) 15:37:13 mad person :D 15:37:23 %) 15:42:30 -!- Azstal has joined. 15:44:49 -!- AnMaster has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:44:49 -!- Asztal has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:44:52 -!- Azstal has changed nick to Asztal. 15:52:03 -!- whtspc has joined. 15:52:47 hi whtspc 15:52:52 * ehird is writing an interp in c 15:53:07 Lostgeek: I find the difference in animation speed between 0 and 1 kinda big, but I'm not allowed to use broken numbers? 0.5? 15:53:11 hi! 15:53:16 sorry 15:53:22 yeah I know... thats a problem 15:53:34 its Thread.sleep(long ms); 15:54:17 If you know then it's ok, just some constructive criticism :) 15:54:17 0 is rushing as fast as possible. 1 ist waiting 1 ms between every command 15:54:37 yeah. but the problem is, that I don't know how to "fix" it 15:55:27 lostgeek: can't, really 15:55:33 1ms sleep is not 1ms sleep 15:55:36 unless you're on a RTOS... 15:55:51 you're sleeping like, 10x that, minimum i'd guess :-P 15:56:14 yeah ofc there is that too... 15:56:42 ehird: non-RT OSes should be able to wait the specified # of ms in average 15:57:02 pgimeno: to 1ms precision? 15:57:04 i'm skeptical. 15:57:22 -!- Corun has joined. 15:57:23 like: wait either 0 or ms 15:57:40 and average to 1 ms 15:58:40 good idea 15:59:58 my pf interpreter runs 7.5 instructions per iteration in average 16:00:22 (in? on? my english sucks as these) 16:00:48 *at 16:02:28 btw there's again a new interpreter: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.msg112462#msg112462 16:02:44 another I mean 16:02:57 -!- AnMaster has joined. 16:03:24 nice 16:03:49 I was thinking about making one in Lazarus but I was Laz-y 16:05:55 I don't feel like learning SDL just for writing an interpreter, or is there any other graphics library that makes it simple to write graphic apps? 16:06:05 think i've written my interp 16:06:13 116 lines of c hopefully 16:06:18 * ehird tests 16:07:00 * pgimeno ponders writing a curses version 16:07:09 curses is unneede 16:07:10 d 16:07:14 just the vt-100 cursor codes 16:07:29 pgimeno: javax.swing ;) 16:07:29 yeeeeah :) 16:07:29 I'm planning a -TUI option ;) 16:07:49 lostgeek: sorry, "in C" was implied :) 16:09:00 I know ;) 16:09:00 It's funny how you can keep a bunch of ner^W geeks busy ;) 16:10:27 the irssi windowing system is insane 16:10:38 I missed this in an esolang recently, everything was too serious and intrincated just for the sake of being serious and intrincated 16:11:18 no humour, no niceness features 16:13:29 * ehird debugz his interp 16:14:08 GregorR: mind if I move "Schrodilang" to "Schrdilang" and add a redirection in the former, or is that the proper name? 16:14:33 I'll write a wii-interpreter 16:14:42 heh, cool 16:15:21 flash is the only language I know well 16:15:26 wii supports it 16:15:31 :) 16:16:35 are there any incremental C compilers? 16:17:01 you can write an test a program bit by bit like at a python prompt? 16:17:52 *and test 16:17:54 what was the whiteout again: 16:17:59 *[s[e]*]? 16:18:03 SimonRC: there's a c repl 16:18:26 ok 16:21:17 ehird: yes, but it seems to end up in infinite loop somehow 16:21:29 whtspc: how is that surprising? 16:22:08 ok it's not surprising, but it makes the piece of code useless 16:23:05 *[[e*]*s*]* 16:23:13 is more useful 16:23:22 blackout? 16:23:54 pgimeno: whiteout. 16:23:56 only our interp does white=bg 16:24:19 g2g 16:24:35 bg should be defined as black 16:24:51 yes 16:27:33 yes 16:28:35 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 16:29:04 hmm, there is no ability to define functions in that 16:30:23 and? 16:30:26 it's a brainfuck derivative 16:30:57 not what I meant 16:31:11 actually, I might be worng there... 16:34:25 but that type of thing isn't what I was thinking of as an "incremental C compiler" 16:34:42 oh 16:34:45 I was thinking something like a traditional Forth 16:34:49 well 16:34:52 c isn't conductive to that. 16:34:58 you can get most of it 16:35:42 but why? 16:35:52 because I can 16:35:59 write it then :) 16:36:16 correction: because I could, if I could be bothered 16:37:05 -!- LinuS has joined. 16:50:10 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"). 16:50:14 -!- lostgeek has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:50:32 -!- lostgeek has joined. 16:59:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:00:22 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:04:59 Snow! 8-D 17:09:54 it's Brittany here. We only get rain. 17:09:56 question, in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Weave, should <> move each thread's pointer on both the thread's and master's tape, or just one depending on '~' ? 17:10:14 the latter seems more useful, but the former is probably what was meant i think 17:18:29 Um, *[e*]* should halt in paintfuck, right? 17:19:30 ehird: yeah it should 17:19:37 Darn. 17:19:40 Stoopid bugs. 17:20:06 -!- decipher has joined. 17:21:01 is there a version of langtons ant withhout the comments? 17:22:37 just strip the comments 17:22:38 but why 17:23:34 i made an code window with highlighting of the current command 17:24:42 and at a speed of 20 it takes like 5 seconds to scroll through the comments 17:26:04 lostgeek: parse the program before executing it. 17:26:10 GregorR: mind if I move "Schrodilang" to "Schrdilang" and add a redirection in the former, or is that the proper name? 17:26:17 as a bonus loops are faster 17:26:43 pgimeno: My records indicate that there was no umlaut on that 'o' :P 17:26:53 ehird: but I wanted to make the code changable on the fly 17:26:55 okay then :) 17:27:13 lostgeek: look in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck 17:28:34 thanks :) 17:39:06 try this: http://files.lostgeek.de/Geekness/PaintFuck/Release/PaintFuck-0.2a.tar.gz 17:39:20 my code window is mostly done :) 17:39:43 can we edit the wiki to add more links for paintfuck interpreters? 17:40:55 I think we should make an own section. There _surely_ will be more interpreters 17:41:31 yeah i agree, i have coded 2 interpreters, one in C++ and the other one in obfuscated C 17:41:46 lol 17:41:59 we should code a brainfuck interpreter for paintfuck! 17:42:07 :) 17:42:07 trivial 17:42:10 well 17:42:12 not trivial 17:42:15 but convertable via a program 17:42:22 being that it's essentially brainfuck -> smallfuck 17:42:28 convert dbfi 17:42:57 ehird: i guess he meant an interpreter written in brainfuck for paintfuck 17:43:05 oh. 17:43:17 well you could do that, armed with the vt-100 cursor codes. 17:43:28 and a very large monitor 17:43:32 it'd probably be more tedious than hard 17:43:32 :) that would be something cool to try 17:43:37 jayCampbell: naw, my interp uses the vt-100 terminal codes 17:43:51 use a small font :P 17:44:15 i wish i could remember where to find that CPU written in Life gliders 17:44:56 ehird, you have an opinion re Weave? 17:45:01 hm what 17:45:22 threaded brainfuck, do its tapes move together 17:48:03 dunno 17:48:08 i hope not 17:48:08 :P 17:48:12 Well... It is unspecified, so either way is ok. Personally I'd go with that each thread has two pointers each; on for the local tape, and one for the global tape. 17:50:59 what about threaded paintfuck with two pointers 17:51:03 :) 17:51:31 wn*[[[n*]*s*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w*w] <-- who wants to make my spiral not mess up when it reaches the center 17:54:42 you're missing an end bracket 17:54:53 err, right 17:54:55 whatever 17:54:56 you can add that 17:54:57 :P 17:55:57 did 17:56:16 cept this isn't a spiral 17:56:27 jayCampbell: it's a square spiral. 17:56:49 *[[n]*[*e]*[s*]*[*w]*] i wish i knew what this was doing 17:58:17 ehird: wn*[[n*]*s*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w*wn*]* fixed 17:59:03 pgimeno: i don't know whether i have a usepage. i'm a bit afraid of wikis 17:59:11 ha mizard 17:59:11 MizardX: you win 50 internets! 18:00:11 nom num 18:00:14 ehird what about it 18:00:20 jayCampbell: wat? 18:00:25 *[[n]*[*e]*[s*]*[*w]*] i wish i knew what this was doing 18:00:32 it looked interesting 18:00:33 :P 18:00:35 b ut it halts 18:02:35 because it runs in circles it mimicks something like a 2,2 cellular rule 18:02:53 could be the basis for something 18:02:54 oklokok: ok, I've leave just your nick in the Paintfuck page 18:03:32 pgimeno: his main nick is oklopol 18:03:33 :P 18:04:51 i could see using something like that critter as a second stage, after setting up a board for it to run around 18:05:23 it doesn't do that for me 18:05:24 i makes a machine 18:05:27 try it on the official interp 18:05:36 ummmm 18:05:37 *[[[n*w]n*[s*e]e*]*] 18:05:38 i'm in the swf 18:05:42 looks like a cellular automata 18:05:45 I see traingles 18:05:59 ehird: if you make a reasonably fast paintfuck interp, i can make a pong. 18:06:00 omg 18:06:01 that one's very cool 18:06:01 i think it's 18:06:03 sierpinski! 18:06:07 oklokok: use the exe one 18:06:07 but 18:06:13 yaeh 18:06:14 :P 18:06:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:07:06 that stream of bits when it settles into a repeat pattern is interesting 18:07:07 oklokok: if you make a multithreaded interpreter, with keyboard input... 18:07:16 losthe means 18:07:16 a pong ai 18:07:17 los 18:07:18 lostgeek: 18:07:26 i.e. two ais playing pong against each other 18:07:29 ah 18:07:46 pgimeno: put my nick there as "oklopol" 18:07:50 that's my most official one. 18:07:51 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 18:07:56 oh 18:08:05 ehird told you. not really a surprise but anyway 18:08:30 lostgeek: why multithreaded? 18:08:45 oklopol: two player? :B 18:09:01 well i was thinking player + ai, but whatever 18:09:16 i might be able to simulate Very Large Numbers with branching and pool resets 18:09:25 you'd need an infinite program 18:09:29 oklopol: it has no input 18:09:31 so do ai vs ai 18:09:33 :D 18:09:34 but then, maybe 18:10:08 well I haven't had the chance to actually program something bigger in paintfuck yet... 18:10:12 I was only writing the interpreter 18:10:21 so I don't really know what you would have to do for that 18:11:20 this one shows how to build the spaceship from Contact *[[[n*w]n*[s*e]e*]*] 18:11:41 ehird: i guess i could have it take the seed from the first line. 18:11:56 oklopol: just make it play a predictable game 18:11:57 but really it'd be just stupid to make one for an interp that slow 18:12:01 also 18:12:04 it's not very slow 18:12:06 ehird: seed is nicer. 18:12:24 oklopol: if it's too slow use http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php or the java one or the c one 18:12:44 well, i guess it's the perfect speed for actually seeing the logic that moves that paddles + ball 18:12:49 Are you seeking to purchase some weed? 18:13:03 oklopol: just keep the ai simple enough :P 18:13:05 i wish i could say that was out of the ordinary here 18:13:08 oerjan, do you spend all day reading the logs? 18:13:18 i just started 18:13:25 Also do you want some weed 18:13:29 nope 18:13:40 *[[[n*w]n*[s*w]se*]*] 18:16:37 is the announcement time in the wiki in CET? 18:16:54 you can set your timezone in the preferences. 18:17:06 um 18:17:10 its part of the page source 18:17:15 Original Paintfuck announcement (2008-11-22 14:28:50 UTC) 18:17:16 dumbo :P 18:17:19 :D 18:17:51 although i've occasionally find that annoying when i want to add an unsigned template 18:17:58 since i have to convert manually 18:18:10 *i 18:19:15 * oerjan flaps his ears to fly, then drops a rock on ehird 18:26:09 *[[ee*]*se*] 18:26:17 can it e shorter? :D 18:26:19 well 18:26:21 *[[ee*]*se*]* 18:26:50 oerjan: that was not the issue, sorry, I meant the time that whtspc mentioned as the creation time for the Paintfuck article 18:27:11 *for Paintfuck in the article 18:28:10 *announcement time (sorry, too much langton lately) 18:31:14 oklopol: how goes the pong 18:32:12 -!- lostgeek has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:35:10 -!- lostgeek has joined. 18:36:48 mh. I somehow managed to crash my book 18:37:07 anyhow. I gtg 18:37:08 bye 18:37:16 bye 18:37:40 -!- lostgeek has quit (Client Quit). 18:58:24 ehird: did i say i was going to do it now? 18:58:47 oklopol: it was implied 18:58:48 :D 18:58:55 oklopol: but srsly do it <.< 19:33:00 *[[*e]*[*n]*[*w]*[s*]*] 19:44:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:44:23 buttt i have others to do! 19:45:37 * oerjan decides not to make a butt joke anyhow. 19:46:29 asss is you could 19:47:01 oklopol: cmon 19:47:02 doooooo i 19:47:02 t 19:47:04 it will be awesome 19:47:42 oklopol: as a bonus you don't have to handle losses 19:47:44 that is 19:47:47 when the ball goes through one end 19:47:51 it automatically starts again from the other 19:47:52 XD 19:57:09 -!- lostgeek has joined. 19:57:15 re 20:04:28 yo LolaCL 20:04:30 err 20:04:33 lostgeek: 20:04:35 :) 20:05:40 I think my interp is reaching the point where I need to rethink the code and comment :) 20:05:54 ehird: we don't all have a letter all to ourself, you know 20:06:05 oerjan: lo 20:06:13 two-charactetr prefixes should be unique!!! 20:06:14 :D 20:06:53 so I need to change my nick to lastgeek? *g* 20:07:05 lostgeek: change it to zy3jkanfka 20:07:06 lostgeek: won't help for long 20:07:08 that's pretty uniqu 20:07:09 e 20:07:17 where is lament anyway. 20:07:35 * lostgeek wants utf8 nicks :) 20:08:16 lostgeek: you could try lustgeek though 20:08:46 anyway.. has someone made a 99 bottles of beer in paintfuck yet? :) 20:09:06 nope 20:09:09 i'm gonna write a counter 20:09:10 there seems to be that slight lack of ascii output... 20:09:17 oerjan: draw the text 20:09:18 and scroll it 20:09:19 XD 20:09:22 you should build it as a program that paints 99 beer bottles, then unpaints them one after one 20:09:34 while scrolling the lyrics :P 20:10:22 lol 20:10:51 i guess it's only a matter of determination 20:11:36 i think with procedures it would be much easier 20:11:46 no 20:11:51 that would suck 20:11:59 keep the minimalist aesthetic and orthogonality 20:12:00 also 20:12:04 *[[s*en]s*nw[w]es] 20:12:06 counter woo 20:12:25 drawing a fixed letter is trivial, just tedious 20:12:28 basically copy, add one, then reset back to position 0 20:12:28 :P 20:13:51 hm doing the arithmetic directly on the drawn digits would be sorta cool 20:14:17 -!- lostgeek has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:14:30 oh i know! a program that does manual arithmetic :D 20:15:07 lol 20:15:48 * ehird writes a scroller 20:16:07 hmm 20:17:57 is that even possible? 20:18:10 a scroller is possible and has been done 20:18:14 i.e. it copies every square above it one down, then moves itself one down, then repeats 20:18:16 no matter what is above 20:18:32 then, it can scroll forever 20:18:42 yes, let me fetch the code 20:19:49 sssssssssssssss 20:19:49 sseeeeeeee 20:19:51 *s*s*s*s*e*e*n*n*sse*e*n*n*n*n*ee 20:19:51 *s*s*s*s*nne*e*e*enn*s*s*s*s*ee 20:19:51 eeeeee*wwwwww* 20:19:51 [n*n*n*n*e*e*e*e*ssw*w*w*ss*e*e*e*ee] 20:19:53 *nn*n*n* 20:19:56 eeeeeeeenn 20:19:58 *[e*]*ssssssss 20:20:01 *[e*]*nnnnnnn*[ 20:20:03 [*[s]e[w*e*]ws*]*ne* 20:20:06 [*[n]e[w*e*]wn*]*se*] 20:20:09 pastie.org in future plz :p 20:20:40 sure :) 20:21:00 -!- lostgeek has joined. 20:21:00 decipher: i swa that, but 20:21:07 can it handle arbitrary stuff? 20:21:09 or just whee 20:21:10 and 20:21:23 can it be done vertically? that is, it copies everything above a line downwards 20:21:36 ... copy & paste can be bad 20:21:47 hm? 20:22:03 if you copy the code from the slider for the scale (1-10 px per field) 20:22:10 and use it for the speed (0-5000) 20:22:14 and forget to change the variables 20:22:18 lol 20:22:20 so you get an 200x200 field 20:22:31 with 1500 px x 1500px per field 20:22:35 ehird: i think it is possible 20:22:45 so you get a window of 300000 x 300000 px 20:24:06 bye 20:24:08 -!- Mony has quit ("Hey Hoy let go !"). 20:24:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:30:01 Non-commented version of Langton's Ant with 2x2 NOT-HOLLOW cells: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck-langton-nothollow.pfk 20:30:36 that one is slower because it has to do many copy and reset operations 20:30:39 404 20:30:45 err 20:30:55 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck-langton-nothollow.pfk 20:30:58 sorry 20:31:58 pgimeno: can you add an option to yur interp to start at 0,0 20:32:34 ah 20:32:36 my copier does work 20:33:01 it is VERY slow 20:33:04 but it copies anything at all right 20:33:08 with no special confi 20:33:08 g 20:33:48 ehird: hm... ok 20:34:25 decipher: lostgeek: pgimeno: http://pastie.org/327245 my generic copier 20:34:31 veeeeeeeeery slow 20:34:37 see the comments for instructions :-P 20:38:57 -!- Corun has joined. 20:52:13 nobody wants to try my copier? :P 20:52:16 it's short! 20:53:18 just [[*n*]w[w]*se*[*s*]w[w]*ne*], with the precondition that it's at the one-up-from-bottommost leftmost cell, there is a white line running all across the top and bottom, and the drawing is in the middle 20:53:30 sorry. need to add comments to my program... 20:53:42 got 521 lines of code... and 4 lines of comment 20:53:42 What language is this/ 20:54:15 Sgeo: paintfuck 20:54:18 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... 20:54:22 i'm not sure my copier works for multiple lines 20:54:23 * ehird tests 20:55:04 nope 20:55:05 it doesn't 20:55:06 well 20:55:08 it might 20:55:08 : 20:55:08 :s 20:55:11 wait 20:55:12 maybe it does 20:55:14 just extra slowly 20:56:11 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:56:16 -!- Leonidas has joined. 20:56:37 i'm not sure if it's working slowly or breaking on multiple lines, haha 20:58:27 huh it halt 20:58:28 s 20:58:28 :{ 21:08:09 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 21:11:17 -!- pavitra has joined. 21:12:49 -!- Corun has joined. 21:12:50 -!- pavitra has left (?). 21:24:23 new improved version of my interpreter 21:24:32 with reverse video option 21:24:44 and trace improvements 21:26:49 http://www.dyalog.com/dfnsdws/n_kt.htm 21:26:54 I can't believe that isn't an esolang 21:26:56 and origin option (per ehird's request)) 21:27:05 yaey 21:29:42 hey pgimeno 21:29:46 write game of life in it 21:29:46 :D 21:29:59 comex: what, APL? 21:30:16 yes 21:30:29 ehird: again, not possible without extra storage e.g. 2x2 21:30:35 pgimeno: yeah and? :D 21:30:46 oh well, I might try... 21:31:25 pgimeno: here's how i imagine it working: 21:31:37 since you have to traverse the WHOLE grid, have a checkerboard separated by a lot 21:31:41 so that you can always walk the whole gri 21:31:41 d 21:31:51 then, each actual square is 2x2 or so so that it stands out from the checkerboard 21:32:05 and the head has to track the four neighbours and probably a few more stuff to carry around 21:32:08 so I guess 4x4 or so 21:32:17 so the gaps in the checkerboard have to fit a 4x4 head 21:34:24 in my view, 2x2 is enought 21:34:27 *enough 21:35:03 von Neumann machine would probably be far easier 21:35:44 pgimeno: 2x2 head? 21:35:47 for game of life? 21:35:54 yup 21:35:56 you have to track the on/off state of -4 neighbouring cells- to calculate one cell 21:36:13 pgimeno: and you still need a space for calculation, and an always-on head 21:36:16 sooooo 21:36:20 how do you propose to do that 21:37:00 ehird: that's not a problem in my view, e.g. in Langton I use two cells for computation, not just one 21:37:05 you can use as many as you need 21:37:08 hmm 21:37:16 alright 21:37:17 :P 21:37:34 as long as you remember your actual head's position, that is 21:37:35 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:37:50 -!- Corun has joined. 21:37:58 but still, life is too complicated (which is true in two senses) 21:38:15 lol :) 21:38:18 game of life is pretty trivial tbh 21:38:27 just... not quite so in paintfuck 21:38:28 life is trivial, yes 21:38:29 it shouldn't be much harder than langton 21:38:36 langton is 2 bits to store direction 21:38:43 gol is 4 bits for neighbours 21:39:07 in life you need to check each of 8 neighbours and count them, counting is not so easy in pf 21:39:25 no you don't 21:39:31 no 21:39:33 4 neighbours 21:39:33 that's just how you might implement it in a normal language. 21:39:35 not 8 21:39:52 wtf 21:39:52 and 8 neighbors, not 4 21:39:55 it is eight 21:39:55 huh 21:40:01 anyway pgimeno 21:40:08 you could probably do like 2 bits 21:40:14 and flip them to patterns for alive/dead on each hit 21:40:15 or something 21:40:46 you can just have two cells per gol cell and do all the computation elsewhere on the board. 21:41:18 and even if you want to do everything in-place, 4 is enough 21:41:20 duh 21:41:23 do the calculation in the head 21:42:01 oklopol: show me :) 21:42:09 pgimeno: dunno if i have the time 21:42:15 oklopol: you're never busy 21:42:19 of course you have the time 21:42:20 :P 21:42:30 anyway i'm pretty sure you can do it with just two cells per gol cell, without using any additional external memory. 21:42:31 you just don't want to 21:42:39 but 21:42:56 i think the code size will get exponential then 21:43:06 hmm... 21:43:21 wait, why even two 21:43:34 oklopol: you have to track the state of 8 things 21:43:36 i.e. 8 bits 21:43:38 why not just use the whole array for gol 21:43:49 ehird: lol 21:43:57 those are on the map already 21:43:59 i don't see your point 21:44:03 and there are 9 things. 21:44:17 oklopol: yeah but 21:44:23 you need to carry the 8 bits 21:44:27 so you can count the number 21:44:28 to calculat the new state 21:44:44 i can do it without calculating anything. 21:44:53 how 21:45:06 i can just do like i did in my 50000 line tode solution and explicitly list all the cases :) 21:45:31 basically using program state as the counter 21:45:49 it's not actually that much slower, assuming the code is parsed 21:46:07 well, probably the fastest way to do it 21:46:27 oklopol: that's kind of cheating 21:46:27 but, i still need to solve the problem of changing the board on the fly. 21:46:34 ehird: no, not really 21:46:40 well i guess so 21:46:41 buttt 21:46:44 paintfuck can do it without that 21:46:49 duh 21:46:50 so i think it should be done "properly" 21:46:56 yeah sure 21:47:38 anyway size 4 cells are probably nicer if only for esthetics. 21:49:06 hmm... wonder how proper proper should be 21:49:21 maybe i should see what you can do with 4. 21:49:49 can someone link the swf or the exor 21:50:30 oklopol: k 21:50:37 -!- Corun_ has joined. 21:50:43 oklopol: willhostforfood.com/files3/7766096/pain.rar 21:50:51 i assumed i'd never touch it again so i removed it 21:51:00 but you peckers keep talking about it, so that's hardly possible 21:51:04 oklopol: for changing the board on the fly, use an extra line that moves and keeps a copy of the old state of one other line 21:51:37 oerjan: yes something like that might work. 21:51:39 oklopol: paintfuck is pretty interesting you gotta admit 21:51:43 compareed to some other new langs 21:52:03 it's okay. noprob would be more interesting if i managed to finish it 21:52:29 Fredkin was the name, I didn't remember it O:) Fredkin should be easy to write in pf. 21:52:37 now i'm thinking removing probabilities and somehow trying to make linked lists out of variable dependencies... :) 21:53:10 ehird: what other new langs btw? 21:53:21 oklopol: Esme!!ESMEESMESME!!!11 21:53:33 ehird: OMGOMGOMG 21:53:45 i don't remember what esme is, just that it was somehow stupid 21:53:52 i guess that's enough 21:53:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme 21:54:29 "Shameful" 21:55:06 oklopol: i added that 21:55:09 i know 21:55:13 and the citation needed 21:55:13 :D 21:55:33 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hashes 21:55:38 A new lang of his (Slereah ) 21:55:45 so i prolly don't know what that is because it doesn't say on the wiki. 21:55:57 oklopol: that is all the description we have 21:55:57 XD 21:55:58 * oerjan thought he added citation needed. or maybe that was for another language. 21:56:53 i added it, you changed it 21:56:54 iirc 21:56:54 that's one mad god 21:57:05 oh i just included the template 21:57:28 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Esme&diff=next&oldid=12506 21:57:43 -!- Corun has quit (Connection timed out). 21:59:33 [ot] http://finitenature.com/interference/plugin/index.html <- nice java applet 22:00:13 pgimeno: nothing is offtopic in #esoteric 22:01:09 ehird: wrong 22:01:57 hm trying to track that VeeBeeWiki mention leads to a nonexisting web page or something 22:03:30 pgimeno: why wrong? :P 22:03:33 oerjan: he made it up 22:03:34 i think 22:05:27 the name is older 22:05:34 oerjan: ? 22:05:57 http://wikiscrolls.org/ 22:06:36 veebeewiki = Visual Basic wiki 22:06:36 almost certainly 22:06:38 might be just a name collision :/ 22:06:44 but yeah 22:06:46 most likely name collision 22:06:57 * ehird tries web arckiv 22:07:33 not in web archive 22:08:03 Wikiscrolls was merged with the Elderscrolls Wikia in March 2008 22:08:13 -!- Corun_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:08:35 ehird: too many offtopics can make people abandon the chan, preferably the snr should be kept high 22:08:48 hm wait the Mad God actually mentions it elsewhere: http://www.frheritage.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?id=User_talk:Dagoth_Ur%2C_Mad_God&revision=23 22:09:30 pgimeno: way past that stage 22:09:34 pgimeno: there are quite a lot of regulars here. 22:09:45 most everyone here is a regular 22:09:50 and the topics swerve wildly 22:10:04 but yeah everyone likes ontopic stuff, ofc 22:10:28 oklopol: not me! those esolangs are too damn hard. 22:10:53 i come here only for the sex talk. 22:11:06 oerjan: on that site... jesus christ 22:11:12 I come here because I'm lonely ;_; 22:11:16 he comes to someone else's wiki, shits over it, and asks for adminship to shit over it more 22:11:16 :D 22:11:20 o.o 22:11:27 aha 22:13:01 -!- Corun has joined. 22:18:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:18:38 -!- sebbu has quit (No route to host). 22:19:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:22:54 ah he was banned from Elderscrolls 22:23:45 heh. 22:23:49 somehow i am unsurprised 22:23:55 what an ass :D 22:28:55 -!- LinuS has quit (Connection timed out). 22:30:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:31:01 pgimeno: darn, i have a faster copier but it mangles the ceiling and floor 22:31:06 and i'm not sure how to make it detect it 22:31:11 to go onto the next line 22:37:27 1 22:37:27 2Hello, 1World! 22:37:27 3, 10, 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 22:37:27 4, 2, 1 22:37:27 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 22:37:27 6, 3, 10, 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 22:37:33 jayCampbell: ?? 22:37:40 Weave works :) 22:37:46 threaded brainfuck 22:38:03 brainfork 22:38:20 i had to put a bunch of NOPs in hello.b to make it overlap 22:38:43 brainfork 22:38:50 weave is different 22:38:52 gn channel 22:38:55 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 22:39:01 bye 22:39:01 -!- lostgeek has quit ("leaving"). 22:39:08 there's a shared tape 22:39:14 er i should test that 22:39:31 i need .. hello.b and cat.b 22:39:48 so yeah, weave has a shared tape plus a tape per thread 22:40:55 i think it's more functional than brainfork, and it was unimplemente 22:44:31 i golfed my checkerboarder: 22:44:32 *[se[ee]*] 22:44:33 pgimeno: :D 22:46:02 nift 22:50:06 ehird: ? 22:50:14 pgimeno: 22:50:18 ok master tape works 22:50:18 *[se[ee]*] 22:50:21 really short chequerboard 22:50:34 Have you considered using for this javascript one? 22:50:43 or even better, *[en[nn]*] !! 22:52:27 Asztal: oh good idea 22:52:38 jayCampbell: but that's exactly the same :P 22:52:44 ha you ran it 22:52:58 ehird: ah ok 22:53:06 jayCampbell: no i knew 22:53:13 almost voting time 22:53:25 Asztal: tell me more :) 22:53:27 *[whe[ee]*] 22:53:35 oh wait 22:53:36 darn 22:53:58 pgimeno: google it :P 22:54:05 pgimeno: well, I was thinking that it would save you having a 64x64 . Surely that can't be great for performance :) 22:54:13 the nights who paint *[ne[ee]*] 22:54:16 yeah it also sucks for larger sizes 22:54:28 jayCampbell: that is also the same. 22:54:30 trickster. 22:54:39 i meant knights anyway 22:55:03 also (in Firefox, at least) you can copy the image to the clipboard as a data:url, which would be cool :D 22:55:23 Asztal: I'm sure, I just haven't heard of canvas before 22:55:36 pgimeno: gooooooogle 22:55:36 :P 22:55:45 pgimeno: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Canvas_tutorial 22:55:51 & https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Drawing_Graphics_with_Canvas 22:56:02 its non-standard but supported by just about everything that isn't IE 22:56:14 Most of this content (but not the documentation on drawWindow) has been rolled into the more expansive Canvas tutorial, this page should probably be redirected there as it's now redundant. 22:56:17 disregard the second link 22:56:49 oh, mozilla-specific? 22:56:53 no 22:57:02 pgimeno: mozilla + opera + safari 22:57:08 and it's in the upcoming HTML5 spec 22:57:08 hm 22:57:16 so, um, as cross-platform as it matters 22:57:22 does CakeProphet hang around here? 22:57:24 only the insane people here (like oklopol and oerjan) use IE :P 22:57:27 jayCampbell: occasionally 22:57:28 why? 22:57:31 do you know him? 22:57:37 * oerjan waves hi 22:57:43 weave is his spec, and i have questions 22:58:02 ah 22:58:06 he only comes every now and then 22:58:32 like can we ditch the '!' separator since there's already ';' and '!' means bf-input these days 22:58:44 busy expanding his cake religion, i assume 23:00:22 i don't use ie anymore 23:00:32 because firefox is now the default 23:00:45 oklopol: lol 23:01:43 i'm almost thinking i should've debugged the gol during coding... :P 23:01:48 i have a loooooot of code 23:01:56 and i'm pretty sure there are about 30 errors :P 23:02:19 oklopol: XD 23:02:22 there's a firefox addon for doing 3D stuff with and openGL... so I made fractals with it. Maybe I should have made a piet interpreter on the GPU. 23:02:29 *almost* 23:02:38 oklopol: does it look pretty? 23:02:42 i.e. can you make out the grid 23:02:44 easily 23:03:07 it stores current and previous row now. 23:03:14 so it could be prettier i guess. 23:03:50 mind you i don't know what it looks like, i haven't run it once :D 23:03:52 oklopol: um but 23:03:55 you can still see the whole grid 23:03:57 right? 23:04:08 hummm? 23:04:14 oklopol: the GoL 2d grid 23:04:19 you can still see all of it right 23:04:28 wellllllll, the grid is made of 2x2 squares 23:04:33 right 23:04:35 but 23:04:35 i mean 23:04:42 is the noise from the processing enough to make it hard to see? 23:04:48 and the top right is the current val, bottom left is the last one 23:05:01 ok 23:05:04 i don't know :) but there's only noise at the current spot. 23:05:29 ah ok 23:05:33 oklopol: how long until it works :P 23:05:38 looooong :) 23:05:40 well 23:06:03 i've currently counter the neighbors 23:06:48 now i just need to store the negations of the counter's contents, and do a few if's 23:07:35 ya 23:07:43 this is all pretty trivial really, it's just, well, it either works or not, i don't have a step-by-stepper :) 23:07:55 oklopol: yes 23:07:55 you do 23:07:57 (i know one exists, but that's only a last resort) 23:08:00 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php 23:08:01 :P 23:08:07 LAST RESORT 23:16:03 that canvas thing looks promising, I guess that the getElementById thing is quite time consuming in this program 23:18:10 if you don't use canvas, you should at least cache the getElementById calls. 23:19:52 hm, with a couple lines i could put brainfork's forker into weaver 23:20:44 * SimonRC goes to bed. 23:32:42 * oklopol debugged his code :<< 23:32:58 there weren't 30 errors, there were 3 23:33:16 unless you count the one that was in all the copypaste.... then it was more like 20 :D 23:41:01 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:44:47 hey oklopol 23:44:49 how goes the game of lief 23:44:54 is it ready for release 23:46:32 not yet 23:47:31 which is kinda stupid concerning how long i've been on it 23:47:57 oklopol: then will you do pong 23:47:57 :DDDDDDD 23:48:08 can't promise you can see the actual evolution from this... but that's probably not that important...... :D 23:48:21 oklopol: can you watch a glider? 23:48:23 the problem is the last round's valuez 23:48:26 if so it's kewel 23:48:27 well prolly 23:53:41 -!- Corun has joined. 23:59:55 oklopol: IS IT DONE 23:59:56 <.<