00:00:31 congratulations, you're warmer than the surroundings 00:00:47 that means you're probably alive (or died only recently) 00:01:57 also the cat can smell your love for it, and it gets a warm fuzzy feeling outta that 00:16:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:16:48 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:34:28 kthxbye 00:34:34 ;S 00:35:23 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 00:46:17 ;) 01:32:15 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:57:55 GREGOR HAZ HTTPS 01:58:37 ;) 01:59:06 * oklopol needs to wake up in about 3 hours :< 02:17:41 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:37:03 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 02:43:41 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:48:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:43:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 03:48:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:48:50 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:00:17 oklopol 05:00:22 i hope youve fallen asleep 05:44:36 well hoped 06:07:36 (== i did fall asleep) 06:07:42 (now i leave ->) 06:20:39 -!- habnabit has joined. 06:21:37 Hi guys! I imagine you don't see much python code, so I decided to fix that. 06:21:39 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/91848/ 06:23:00 Who says you can't do functional programming in python? 06:38:48 -!- habnabit has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:39:09 -!- habnabit has joined. 06:43:47 habnabit: please tell me it's not hand-written 06:44:33 Probably the same people who say you can't do functional programming in Perl, yet perl -e 'print &{&{sub { my $f = shift; return &$f($f); }}(sub { my $f = shift; return sub { my $n = shift; return 1 if $n < 2; return &{&$f($f)}($n-1) + &{&$f($f)}($n-2); }; })}(11), "\n";' is a perfectly fine and very functional recursive fibonacci. 06:44:33 lament, it is 100% hand-written. 06:45:04 hm... what is it supposed to do? 06:45:10 it just terminated without output 06:45:12 It's a chat server. 06:45:23 You have to add 'main(some_port_number)' at the end if you want to run it. 06:45:26 oh, duh, it's a function definition 06:45:30 cool! 06:45:46 telnet works as a client. It uses CRLF as a delimiter. 06:46:07 you're probably nuts. 06:46:15 It handles SIGINT and SIGTERM gracefully, too. 06:47:55 So yeah. I probably am crazy, but I love writing obsfucated python. 06:51:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to xor. 06:52:27 -!- xor has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 06:55:02 God, I feel evil. 06:55:19 For my CS class, I've been asked to do merge sort and quick sort without recursion. 06:55:28 So, I have implemented a full call stack in C. 06:55:38 (instead of the somewhat crazy way they wanted it done) 06:56:20 With setjmp/longjmp? 06:57:12 No, though that is tempting. 06:57:21 Are you familiar with the unary && operator? 06:57:29 Nope. 06:58:07 && returns the address of a goto label. 06:58:14 Ahahaha. 06:59:25 Stack of that and the rest of the state of my code, and a few gotos. 06:59:27 >:D 07:00:32 pikhq: I got a new server for Codu, Plof Hg is now accessible via https :P 07:01:07 GregorR: Hooray. 07:13:29 That's not "C", though -- that's GCC. 07:17:00 fizzie: It's GNU C. 07:17:25 Fortunately for me, this class uses GNU C++... Which means I can do this crazy shit and get away with it. 07:39:45 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:50 -!- jix has joined. 08:18:57 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:19:04 -!- jix has joined. 08:19:09 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:44:30 -!- fungot has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 08:44:46 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 09:11:07 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:31:56 obfuscation is trivial 09:32:09 oh, seems i'm scrolled up. 09:32:18 that makes less sense in whatever context i happen to be saying it in. 09:33:01 habnabit: i have an irc bot that runs brainfuck written in that style 09:33:07 although it isn't obfuscated 09:34:32 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/python.txt though that's just the interp, but the irc stuff is trivial ofc 09:34:46 not sure where i have the actual botter 09:40:24 Neat. 09:41:03 Though I cheat a little and use a dynamically-created dict subclass as a namespace instead of abusing function arguments. 09:41:26 yes that would be less verbose 10:18:01 oklopol: Obfuscation is easy. 10:18:22 And using goto in a low-level CS course for good reason is just silly. 10:38:07 pikhq: well i think trivial is a special case of easy, but i agree, it's easy. 10:39:05 and yeah, goto is often silly 10:45:24 What's silly is using goto to implement a call stack. 10:45:46 yes i read your idea, was pretty great imo 10:45:59 hacking never gets old 10:46:09 :) 10:46:31 Unfortunately, the code in question works on my desktop computer, not the CS labs' computers... 10:46:44 * pikhq shakes his fist at GCC 3 10:48:07 hmm. now you made me want to do something. 10:48:09 not sure what 10:49:18 an exercise in AOCP made me think it might be pretty cool to make like an esoteric programming book, would be pretty esoteric 10:49:42 like, introduce the best languages, and techniques for different paradigms 10:50:11 That would be pretty cool. 10:50:18 and perhaps some more formal treatment too, P'' and TM's and shit 10:50:31 i was thinking of a three-part structure 10:50:58 one part that's about compiling languages to others, that is, making layers of abstractions on languages 10:51:18 characterize the overhead of paradigm changes a bit, and stuff like that 10:51:52 then, something about programming directly in esolangs, visualizing things to yourself, and golfing, naturally 10:52:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:52:17 i would have tons to say about these subjects, but i don't know if i'm structured enough to make an actual book. 10:52:30 and i'm a bit too lazy to try... i think, maybe i could try to try. 10:53:40 for a third part i was thinking the more formal stuff, proving esoprograms right and complexities, more formal treatment about the overhead of compilation between paradigms 10:55:16 and of course, tons of exercises, would definitely be the most fun set of exercises ever, if done well (non-biased objective opinion) 10:55:25 hi KingOfKarlsruhe 10:56:42 hi oklopol 10:57:10 how's it hanging heathens? 11:02:33 do you mean me? 11:04:49 i don't even know tbh. i'm so tired and hungry i'm talking in metaphors and mirages. 11:05:41 i'm tired and hungry too^^ 11:05:58 i slept about 2.5 hours last night 11:07:36 I'm thinking at the rate I'm going, I'm going to completely omit sleep today. 11:09:27 i pretty much have to read, or i won't reach my daily reading quota 11:09:43 *have to sleep 11:09:44 :D 11:10:14 * oklopol is slowly turning into a bibliophiliac, or whatever the term is 11:13:36 dream theater instrumentals = perfection 11:27:06 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:27:11 'sup party people 11:28:35 no 11:28:52 there's no party 11:28:56 we forgot your birthday 11:31:38 Aw :( 11:31:51 Me too, 'cause it's actually in 10 monts. 11:32:04 hah! mine is sooner 11:32:36 but my age will be a composite number for ages after that :< 11:32:36 BUT MINE WAS A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE 11:33:12 Also, I have to actually program something useful. 11:33:16 I feel so dirty D: 11:33:24 dirrrrty? how so 11:33:52 Like I morally should not do this D: 11:34:11 I have to program a simulation of a thousand particles. 11:34:31 well can you at least write it in an unlanguage? 11:34:39 Nah, it's in C. 11:35:01 pikhq is making just the right tool for you then 11:35:26 i need to go buy a food 11:35:32 Only one? 11:35:37 Also what is pikhq doing? 11:35:43 A particle automaton or something? 11:36:07 his making c recursion prettier 11:36:13 *he 11:36:17 *'s 11:36:36 and yes, only one food 11:36:37 Well, it's to be done in regular c, me think! 11:36:43 i'm only one man 11:36:48 Plus, I won't use recursion I think. 11:36:56 It just needs two loops. 11:37:02 :) 11:37:09 One over all time and one over all particles. 11:37:12 you have like gravities and shit? 11:37:26 do you have collitions? 11:37:29 Nah. It's the simulation of a gas. 11:37:37 *collisions 11:37:44 1000 classical particles, with three collision probabilities. 11:37:59 what does that latter thing mean 11:38:00 (elastic collision, one with losses and one with gain) 11:38:04 ah 11:38:06 gain? 11:38:09 hmm. 11:38:11 Yeah. 11:38:18 what does that mean 11:38:26 does that occur in nature 11:38:31 It means that after the collision, the particle has more kinetic energy 11:38:34 Yeah. 11:38:49 It's a quantum thingamagig. 11:39:10 rright, yeah, i wouldn't know anything about that 11:39:24 what are you aiming for with this? 11:39:32 something revolutionary i bet 11:39:36 Getting a good grade, mostly. 11:39:41 It's a school thing. 11:39:43 i've only ever written programs with *one* loop 11:39:53 this is a whole new dimension for me 11:40:43 so no gravity? you can boost this quite a lot with hashing then 11:40:45 collisions that is 11:41:01 Slereah: I was asked to do merge sort and quick sort without recursion. 11:41:06 The collisions aren't really done though, you know, a collision. 11:41:12 They're probabilities. 11:41:16 So, I implemented a call stack. Hooray. 11:41:31 It's an application of the class on random number generators. 11:41:47 Of course, it's a Boltzmann distribution, so it's a bit harder D: 11:42:34 Slereah: right, i have no idea about any of this 11:42:50 but sounds fascinating 11:42:53 FOOD -> 11:43:11 (Only one (1)) 11:47:07 hm 11:47:22 Slereah, are you looking for a good RNG? 11:47:26 PRNG* 11:48:17 wat 11:48:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub is fairly secure iirc though slow 11:48:35 Oh. 11:48:51 No need, we use the generator they gave us in class. 11:48:59 ah 11:49:06 Slereah, what one is it? 11:49:31 It's a mix of the (a * n) + b thingamagig and the registry moving one. 11:49:42 "Générateur réaliste" we call it. 11:49:51 hm 11:49:58 ok 11:50:07 Slereah, I'm not really an expert on that stuff 11:50:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator 11:50:30 That one 11:50:49 And... that one, I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_feedback_shift_register 11:52:36 That's only to generate an equiprobable number between 0 and 1 though 11:52:45 The hard part is to do the distribution. 11:53:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarrow_algorithm looks nice 11:53:57 Slereah, what are you going to use ifor? 11:53:59 it for* 11:54:39 Well, in a box of particles, the speed of those particles at thermal equilibrium is defined by a statistics. 11:55:02 The simplest model is the Maxwell-Boltzmann statistic. 11:55:02 simulation? 11:55:06 maybe mersenne then 11:55:07 Yeah. 11:55:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister 11:55:18 Nah, as said, we use what we get in class. 11:55:21 was developed for simulations iirc 11:55:23 Slereah, well true 11:55:28 but that is no fun :/ 11:55:32 Apparently it's what they use at work! 11:55:50 That's why I feel dirty, AnMaster 11:56:00 I have to do reasonable things D: 11:56:13 hm? 11:57:21 wat 11:57:34 reasonable, sigh 11:58:55 wat 12:02:28 :) 12:31:17 -!- Corun has joined. 13:02:53 -!- ehird has left (?). 13:16:12 -!- ehird has joined. 13:50:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:51:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:05:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:08:19 hi ais 14:08:20 ais523: 14:11:53 hmm 14:12:05 an algo that loops through an array twice is O(n), right? 14:12:09 since O(n*2) = O(n)?? 14:12:32 Yes. 14:12:49 Since it refers to the degree of the polynom. 14:13:01 I think. I mostly use the O that means pretty much the opposite. 14:14:00 (O(x) in science means ax + bx² + cx^3 + ...) 14:16:22 slightly inaccurate 14:18:01 well, one is the limit as n -> infinity, the other as x -> 0 14:18:19 Yeah, that's the rigorous definition. 14:18:29 When you do physics, though, it's pretty much that. 14:18:40 'cause it usually pops up from infinite series. 14:18:44 and a function can be O(x) without being analytic 14:18:58 Yes indeed. 14:19:17 It can be O anything, technically. 14:20:21 But what amuses me is, in computer science, a big O is bad. 14:20:26 But in science, it is good :o 14:20:40 O(n^5) is pretty awesome. 14:23:05 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:30:02 ehird: for i=1..n: for j=1..n: do stuff is O(n^2); for i=1..n: do stuff; for j=1..b: do stuff; is O(n) (=O(2n)). 14:30:20 the latter 14:48:58 16:13… Slereah_: (O(x) in science means ax + bx² + cx^3 + ...) <<< i don't get it, explain 14:49:23 http://qntm.org/?gay graph marriages 15:07:34 good read, thanks 15:09:44 but yeah the idea of graph marriages is nice, but we definitely need directed edges, and edge weights 15:10:08 i mean, i'm not gonna marry psygnisfive no matter how many times he asks, but i guess i could marry him a *little*, that wouldn't be so bad. 15:11:05 i guess there's already facebook for that kinda thing 15:13:33 marry him a little 15:13:33 XD 15:13:44 :D 15:14:11 "oklopol... will you marry me 0.5714?" 15:14:38 "make that 0.4836 and we have a deal" 15:14:58 "my heart already belongs 0.683 to someone else, but i guess i could give you like 0.249" 15:15:54 * oerjan was hoping for some good old haggling here 15:16:10 :D 15:16:38 engagement wouldn't be needed either, you could just marry people gradually, over time 15:16:51 maybe there could be functions over time attached on the edges!! 15:17:06 so you could get married over the course of two years 15:18:38 i'm writing botte discuss. 15:19:25 to wryte a botte is a moste eloquente thinge 15:19:28 -!- fizziet has joined. 15:19:39 fizziet: okay *that's* feminine 15:19:40 I get so utterly bored in trains. 15:19:58 wow 15:20:02 that was some disjointed conversationn 15:20:13 i think i want coke 15:20:17 Hey, my normal client is not here. 15:20:24 i think i'll skip the obvious joke 15:20:28 yeah, so you don't even have an excuse! 15:20:41 oerjan: you can't. do it 15:20:45 dance boogie 15:20:55 fizziet: although you are perfectly poised for making shakespeare jokes 15:21:21 although really we would need hiato here... 15:21:59 and this would nicely converge the two last conversations 15:22:00 fizziet: have you considered sleeping? 15:22:16 hmm why hiato? 15:22:35 because it ends with -o 15:23:45 -!- oklopol has changed nick to okleo. 15:24:20 o fizziette, how beautifully is thine facette on this day so brighte! 15:24:25 *beautifulle 15:24:29 i could so write shakespeare 15:24:42 ^style ss 15:24:50 fungot's missing! 15:24:54 and so is thutubot! 15:25:02 oh fungot wherefore art thou fungot? 15:25:16 and where did thututbot go, I wonder? 15:25:17 -!- fizzie has joined. 15:25:25 it is just a good thing i am writing botte 15:25:27 oh, ehird rebooted rutian 15:25:29 again 15:25:33 umm 15:25:34 ais523: 15:25:36 we upgraded 15:25:36 no wonder ehird wanted to wryte a botte 15:25:39 or are you an amnesiac now 15:25:54 yes, your upgrade rebooted rutian 15:25:56 and killed thutubot 15:26:01 uh, is that my fault? 15:26:05 it was a full upgrade. 15:26:12 ehird: ais523 uploaded himself, you reset him too 15:26:15 it did shit to everything. it needed a reboot 15:26:25 in fact, iirc the installer didn't even give me a choice 15:26:28 yes, I know 15:27:42 -!- thutubot has joined. 15:27:49 +hello 15:27:49 Hello, ais523! 15:27:51 -!- fizziet_ has joined. 15:27:51 yay 15:28:06 Meh, the previous one disconnectied abruptly. 15:28:21 +ul ((Hi! )S:^):^ 15:28:22 Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! ...too much output! 15:29:26 fizziet_ is connecting from a sauna in lahti? 15:29:48 actually saunalahti means a lahti containing a sauna 15:29:58 lahti is also a word 15:30:02 Saunalahti ("Sauna bay") is a very common place name in Finland. 15:30:11 But it's also a finnish ISP/mobile operator. 15:30:18 what's with the subsubdomain name? it almost looks like roman numerals but has K in 15:30:27 those crazy finns 15:30:36 +ul ((.)S:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^):^ 15:30:40 ................................................................................................................................ ...too much output! 15:30:40 I'm not sure; but I think the roman numerals correspond directly to the IP. 15:31:15 Or "directly" in the sense that it's some base address + the roman numeral number. 15:31:18 Not sure what they use K for, though. 15:31:21 it's 9013 MKAY 15:32:19 K = 10000 would make sense, possibly 15:32:32 then it's 9908 15:33:15 -!- fizziet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:34:25 okleo: you are not fooling anyone all norwegians know Lahti is a place where they do skiing 15:34:42 so clearly you would want a lot of saunas for afterwards 15:35:45 well naturally there are saunas in lahti, finnish homes are basically saunas with a second oven for cooking and another set of seats for sleeping. 15:36:06 i just meant the composite noun doesn't mean Lahti, that's just not how composites nouns fork. 15:36:33 ah 15:37:01 true that. i've found it weird that greek nouns sometimes _do_ fork that way 15:37:04 * okleo throws some water on the oven, getting cold 15:37:52 hmph, god i hate it when things refuse to happen 15:38:41 e.g. philosophia = love of knowledge, from philos = lover and sophia = knowledge or something like that 15:39:46 hmm, i've often wondered about that, actually 15:40:29 i haven't found a reference for this though 15:55:02 -!- fizziet_ has quit ("Disconnecting to conserve the phone's battery."). 16:02:20 going for a while 16:13:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:25:56 back 16:29:34 the university is not good for me, i'm actually making an uml diagram for my own purposes atm. 16:29:37 -!- okleo has changed nick to oklo. 17:01:36 -!- Ilari has joined. 17:02:11 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:12:19 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:23:34 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 17:25:27 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:46:26 -!- olsner has joined. 17:56:33 Ceci n'est pas un anniversaire. 17:56:50 oerjan: what in particular isn't it a birthday of? 17:57:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Magritte 17:57:49 oerjan: I'm aware of the whole ceci n'est pas thing 17:57:54 is it Magritte's birthday, I wonder? 17:58:22 * oerjan recommends clicking the link 17:58:36 yep, it is 18:02:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:03:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:20:57 -!- Mony has joined. 18:21:53 plop 18:22:07 Ceci n'est pas un plop 18:22:13 :o 18:22:50 this is not a plop? 18:23:00 indeed 18:23:26 why ? 18:23:39 norwegians, norwegians 18:23:51 It also isn't Magritte's 110th birthday 18:38:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:49:02 this is not a line not sent on a non-existing protocol not called irc 18:49:24 I think that's a true statement... 18:49:29 it may be 18:49:34 I got confused 18:49:39 by the third negation 18:49:53 ais523, so tell me if it is true or not 18:50:10 it is true, two ways 18:50:13 it was sent on IRC 18:50:18 so it wasn't sent on a protocol not called IRC 18:50:24 and it wasn't sent on a protocol that didn't exist 18:50:31 also the master of nested negations would be Marwin in HHGTG 18:50:52 it collapses to not ((line sent not on IRC) and (line sent on nonexistent protocol)) 18:50:58 err 18:51:08 sure? 18:51:16 "this is not a line not sent.." 18:51:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:51:24 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:26:39 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:29:16 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:49:24 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:49:38 -!- Corun has joined. 20:07:17 yes, sure 20:07:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 20:08:58 -!- ehird has left (?). 20:08:59 -!- ehird has joined. 20:29:01 -!- ab5tract has joined. 20:45:13 http://blog.jaoo.dk/2008/11/21/art-and-code-obscure-or-beautiful-code/ -- history of programming languages, 20 minutes in and they've already covered even befunge and piet :-) 21:06:26 intercal at 43 minutes 21:09:20 -!- Asztal has joined. 21:15:21 shakespeare at 51 21:17:32 they even present a shakespeare program as a play :-)) 21:17:39 i.e. act it out 21:18:41 someone should convert that video to a format I can actually see 21:19:07 ais523, same 21:19:13 I can't watch it either 21:25:43 ais523, this url may work http://e6.video.blip.tv/0720006203922/Krab-50In50ByRichardPGabrielAndGuyLSteele278.avi 21:25:46 after testing 21:26:18 actually, I just realised that an hour-long avi is probably not good to download 21:26:26 it's over an hour 21:26:28 given that IIRC it's uncompressed 21:26:32 I'd estimate 80-90 minutes 21:28:43 ais523, there are other formats there 21:29:00 ais523, http://blip.tv/file/1472720/ 21:29:54 AVI should be compressed 21:30:03 Asztal, 148 MB *shrug* 21:30:11 none of the formats there are ones I can easily view, really 21:30:13 never mind 21:30:27 What /can/ you easily view? O_o 21:30:36 .ogv 21:30:40 huh 21:30:42 probably that's about it, tbg 21:30:43 ogv? 21:30:46 *tbh 21:30:48 AnMaster: Ogg Theora 21:30:50 ogg? 21:30:50 * Deewiant points to http://www.videolan.org/ 21:30:53 used to be .ogg 21:30:56 isn't that *.ogg 21:31:04 but they changed the extension to avoid ambiguity with Ogg Vorbis 21:31:04 ais523, what is ogg vorbis then? 21:31:07 ogt? 21:31:09 :Ã… 21:31:10 :P* 21:31:14 .ogg for Vorbis, .ogv for Theora 21:31:19 illogical 21:31:24 v for video I think 21:31:31 ok 21:31:42 still ogv/otg would have made more sense 21:31:44 anyway I use flac 21:31:44 :P 21:31:47 for my music 21:32:15 what's .ogm, then? 21:32:56 often xvid/divx in an ogg 21:35:43 HQ9+ at 67 minutes 21:36:12 Deewiant, I prefer flac for my music 21:36:21 yes, I saw that 21:36:29 much better sound quality really 21:36:39 and about half the size of the raw format 21:36:41 or less 21:36:51 and loseless 21:37:55 For purity's sake I keep stuff in a lossless format when possible even though I can't tell the difference between it and lossy 21:38:07 heh 21:46:22 nice vid 21:46:29 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:46:48 have to take a break to make me some noodles 21:47:07 also i wish i wasn't so goddamn tired, i miss some of the awesome jokes :P 21:53:47 haha at APL 22:17:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:25:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:56:53 -!- Asztal has joined. 23:02:54 -!- nooga has joined. 23:03:01 hei 23:03:57 moi 23:09:01 Moronnääs. 23:14:14 nt 23:14:34 That's a perfectly valid greeting. 23:15:21 If a bit dialecty. 23:15:23 nt? 23:15:58 No, "moronnääs". My only connotation for "nt" is "no text". 23:16:10 Or Windows NT, maybe. New Technology, was it? 23:16:16 i usually greet people with a random syllable if i know them well enough to stop for a chat 23:16:31 for people i just greet and walk by, i usually just open my eyes real wide 23:16:33 I usually greet people with "arrr". 23:16:35 and stare at them 23:16:43 hi fizzie 23:16:50 Hello. 23:16:54 ...some don't understand that's a greeting, i've been told i'm scary 23:17:22 http://paste.eso-std.org/ is broken :( 23:17:37 pb.vjn.fi for all your pasting needs 23:17:59 MizardX, rafb.net/paste 23:18:46 There is quite a lot of those things around. 23:18:53 Was thinking of uploading a new version of my redivider parser. This one isn't limited by the python stack. 23:19:02 well it takes 5 minutes to code and everyone has a place to put one int 23:19:03 *in 23:19:07 and everyone needs them 23:19:14 so i wouldn't say that's surprising 23:19:18 fizzie, yes I plan to create a list 23:19:23 I just paste things to .txt files in my ~/www/ ... maybe I should join the new millennnnnium some day. 23:19:29 the definite guide to five star pastebins 23:19:53 vjn.fi/pb is the best i've seen 23:20:05 can't imagine a better one really 23:20:11 oklo, no syntax highlight 23:20:13 aaa 23:20:14 so not for me 23:20:14 http://vjn.fi/pb <--- ais523 gives themself a link to click on 23:20:25 i do not have left eye 23:20:42 nooga, is that random or a true statement? 23:20:49 though bad grammar 23:20:56 http://paste.lisp.org/new 23:20:59 I can recommend it 23:21:00 syntax highlighting isn't that useful 23:21:08 for competent syntax highlight of erlang 23:21:09 lisp 23:21:12 and various other languages 23:21:26 haskell too 23:21:36 the captcha is static 23:21:38 always lisp 23:21:39 hazzzzzkel 23:22:04 heh i read "enjoy your paste" 23:22:11 hmm. not sure that would've been weird 23:22:21 probably would 23:22:43 wind + broken glass killed my eye! 23:23:06 are you serious?= 23:23:18 yep 23:23:21 i thought that was a pirate joke 23:23:24 first 23:23:30 well 23:23:37 i look like a pirate now 23:23:47 is it like, officially broken? 23:23:49 but probably they will manage to repair that 23:24:02 i see 23:24:03 but it fscking hurts 23:24:12 i've always said the wind is of the devil. 23:24:30 ouch 23:24:49 err. 23:24:56 i was just walking down the street during this ff.... hurricane 23:25:00 that lisp pastebin doesn't give you the link, huh? 23:25:01 and then OUCH! 23:25:33 oh, you have to give a nickname 23:26:10 that's the problem with pastebins, i just want to share stuff as quickly as possible, almost every pastebin has their own useless additions. 23:26:15 that's just stupid 23:27:12 i was contemplating buying me a pair of those big glasses snowboarders use 23:27:27 because my eyes hurt for hours after being in the wind for a wihle 23:27:28 *while 23:27:44 and third random topic, fizzie, how went the talk? 23:28:19 did you get to strip naked? 23:28:31 LS 23:28:33 did you start with "moronnääs"? 23:28:35 hah 23:28:38 what's LS? 23:28:44 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 23:28:46 who's LS? 23:28:51 i can't aim right keys on the keyboard 23:28:57 i should try doing something. i've been doing nothing all day 23:29:01 LS -> :D 23:29:10 hehe 23:30:22 there was some experiment where this guy used some kinda oculifiers to turn the world into a mirror image, then lived through that for a month and learned to operate perfectly with it 23:30:25 i want to try that 23:30:51 oklo: No stripping, no "moronnääs" (although the location would've been appropriate for that, I guess); actually there was nothing especially interesting about how it went. Not too much people in the audience, pretty much only the other presenters and a couple of random colleagues of theirs. 23:31:19 what's moronnääs? 23:31:21 fizzie: did you get moneys? 23:31:35 olsner: it's a greeting used in a town in finland 23:32:00 hyvaa paivaa 23:32:04 this town has its own greeting? 23:32:18 olsner: all towns have their own words 23:32:18 parasta ennen 23:32:31 I)_I 23:32:34 i mean 23:32:35 O_O 23:32:35 oklo: No. Well, I did get to count it as a work-day. I don't think people usually tend to pay for seminar-presentation-style talks; real lecture-style things are a different matter, of course. 23:32:48 nooga: i suggest learning sentences you can write with your keyboard :P 23:33:23 what do you mean? 23:33:39 fizzie: what is it you do for work if you don't mind my curiousity? 23:33:42 nooga: it's hyvää päivää 23:34:00 my ä's look weird, nnscript just won't learn. 23:34:11 śó fÄ…kiÅ„g whÄ…t? 23:34:12 ä's looking fine to me 23:34:33 oklo: Speech recognition research, pretty much. 23:34:35 nooga: in hyvaa paivaa, all the a's have umlauts 23:34:49 yea, i know that 23:34:59 but i was too lazy to open char map 23:35:02 without the umlauts it's just gibberish :) 23:35:48 surprisingly easy to read considering finland very rarely has any link between a's and ä's 23:35:52 in Polish internet speak almost nobody uses ąóńćęłżźś 23:36:18 oklo: The slides for today's (well, yesterday already) thing are at http://zem.fi/~fis/tampere08.slides.pdf but I guess they don't make much sense without the presentation part. 23:36:31 sometimes it becomes hilarious 23:36:51 ä and a 23:37:01 Introduction 23:37:03 so far so good 23:37:08 The \standard" mel-frequency cepstral coecient (MFCC) 23:37:09 based feature extraction is relatively sensitive to noise 23:37:13 'ä' and 'a', or 'ö' and 'o' are pretty different sounds. 23:37:21 HUH? please repeat that i must have misheard 23:37:29 polish is weird... way too many 'sz'-sounds 23:37:35 Heh, seems like there's a "ff" ligature there. 23:37:43 Or is it "ffi" even? 23:37:55 fizzie: i doubt that'd make much sense to me with the presentation either ;) 23:38:03 well 23:38:08 'ffi' unless coefficient is misspelled in the original text :) 23:38:32 dunno if you actually require me to know something about the standard mel-frequency cepstral coefficient 23:38:46 Everyone there was speech people, I didn't much explain the basics. 23:38:53 "zrób mi Å‚askÄ™" means "do me a favour", but "zrob mi laske" (which should mean the same) means "do me a blowjob" 23:38:55 MFCCs are explained later on, though. 23:39:34 Next slide, actually. 23:39:44 For some values of "explained", anyway. 23:40:02 nooga: heh, maybe you should asciiize your orthography :) 23:40:09 It doesn't mention what's the point, but... 23:40:13 ;] 23:40:18 window the input signal into overlapping frames 23:40:23 so, you have some string as input 23:40:28 and you kinda cut it into pieces 23:40:30 but they overlap 23:40:31 ..? 23:40:41 Well, it's audio data what we get as input. 23:40:47 naturally 23:40:51 i was just generalizing 23:41:19 like, wroclav -> vrotswaf (obviously the choices are arbitrary though) 23:41:21 Yes, we cut something like 16 millisecond frames out of it, and for each frame advance the starting point by 8 ms, so they end up overlapping. 23:41:34 estimate the log of the amplitude spectrum... what's the definition of logarithm for a spectrum..? 23:42:08 It's just the logarithmic value for the amplitudes. 23:42:20 i see 23:42:21 olsner: wrocÅ‚aw, it is 23:42:22 :> 23:43:04 The word "cepstrum" is a bit funny, though. 23:43:05 yeah, it doesn't end with a 'v' ... don't know where I got that from 23:43:11 what does it mean 23:43:14 hmm. 23:43:19 spectrum? :\ 23:43:19 It's sort-of the inverse of "spectrum". 23:43:30 So the "spec" part is reversed to "ceps". 23:43:33 yeah okay that would've been one helluva typo 23:43:39 i woult write it something like vrotslaf 23:43:43 And filters in the cepstral domains are called lifters, for the same reason. :p 23:43:48 maybe possible if writing the text as a befunge program outputting it 23:43:58 a 'cepstrum' is a spectrum transformed back into the time-domain? 23:44:33 dang 23:44:39 the eye hurts 23:44:45 i should go to sleep 23:44:49 olsner: Well, it's the log-amplitude spectrum transformed again; it's not exactly "time-domain" any more at that point. 23:44:55 g night 23:44:58 n 23:45:17 Oh, and the "X axis" in the cepstrum is the quefrency. :p 23:45:30 whose terminology is this? 23:45:33 lolwtf :) 23:45:35 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 23:45:35 Everyone's. :p 23:45:47 Just see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cepstrum for example. 23:45:57 There's liftering and quefrency mentioned. 23:46:08 :DS 23:46:09 I'm not sure if there are other punny names. 23:46:32 "quefrency alanysis" 23:46:53 I haven't seen "alanysis" anywhere, though. Well, except that wikipedia article. 23:47:03 "the power cepstrum (of a signal) is the square of the Fourier transform of the logarithm of the squared magnitude of the Fourier transform of a signal" 23:47:54 In MFCC's the log-spectrum is first warped to the Mel scale, which is a sort-of a perceptually motivated logarithmic thing. 23:47:54 zifzie is an epsech ocergnition eserarcher 23:48:25 I think the original Mel scale was derived by playing sine tunes to people and having them to classify which are "equally distant". 23:48:51 wut? 23:48:56 And then approximating that a bit. 23:49:11 people who have trouble hearing notes right? 23:49:52 i mean 23:50:22 it's just a logarithmic scale +- failure to hear notes right, in case you know anything about music 23:50:41 well i guess it's not about how much you know 23:51:16 It's what "sounds" equally distant; and it's supposedly not logarithmic through the whole frequency range. 23:51:55 hmm. i would just tell them the interval, not sure what equally distant could mean apart from that :P 23:52:00 I'm getting curious... maybe I should rebuild my haskell spectrum analyser into a cepstrum alanyzer 23:53:11 well, guess if it were log scale +- small error, it would not be mentioned there 23:53:37 It's just that from a given a frequency X, the "distance" between (X/2, X) and (X, 2*X) doesn't necessary sound like it's the same. 23:54:01 Or so they tell me, anyway. Haven't done any listening tests myself. 23:54:23 if i hear X/2 and X, i hear an octave. i'm assuming most people do, even though they may not have a name for the interval 23:55:14 if i hear X and 2X after that, i hear another octave, unless the notes get too high to hear right, but i doubt that's where it's supposed to start deviating from log scale 23:56:39 but maybe the western note system isn't a very natural one, and people who aren't fluent in it have the more natural system 23:57:28 of course i guess i could just wp it 23:57:41 The wikipedia article is not terribly informative. 23:57:47 ic 23:58:07 Anyway, the approximation of Mel scale used by everyone is completely logarithmic, so... 23:58:20 ... 23:58:21 :D 23:58:51 hmm. i want some coke 23:59:10 ...wow i just realized something 23:59:10 The original formulation (if I recall correctly) had a linear part for low (<500 Hz) frequencies, and then logarithmic above that; supposedly it's related to how the ear does it's magic. 23:59:37 if i went out, and bought coke, NO ONE COULD STOP ME :D 23:59:42 i mean 23:59:52 i can just do it 23:59:55 life is awesome