00:00:02 -!- ENKI-][ has joined. 00:00:25 however the "best bakes" page has three different listings, the last of which are definitely biased to things that are rated only a few times 00:00:36 *is 00:01:32 the listings and voting system are essential to actually getting the better comics known 00:05:32 lost game 00:08:06 there's no game 00:09:24 oh and also i don't think the Comic Irregulars have revealed anything much about how the mezzacotta comic generation works (barring that i haven't read the forum for today yet) 00:10:30 but there is plenty of speculation on the forum of course 00:16:14 hm 00:16:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | sometimes i spend hours hunting some bug. 00:16:44 optbot is a hard working programmer 00:16:45 oerjan: I consider it modern art. 00:16:51 ah 00:16:59 XD 00:18:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:18:58 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:21:09 -!- moozilla has joined. 00:26:34 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1995-08-22 <- this actually happened when i was born 00:26:42 i am the one on the right 00:31:22 * oerjan was confused there for a moment 00:31:36 i see your intelligence showed early 00:32:29 I love my facial expression in the last comic 00:33:29 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1748-04-04 <<< oh my god, i wonder how long it's been since i laughed this hard at a comic 00:33:54 oerjan: http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?year=2001&epoch=ad&month=09&day=11 The sorrows of 9/11 apparently break the algorithm. 00:34:08 oklocod: LOL 00:34:26 i've checked 9/11 before i don't recall it being anything special 00:34:38 did you find it funny, or am i just too tired? 00:34:48 oerjan: "This randomly generated comic is just not working today." 00:34:49 oklocod: hilarious 00:34:52 the facial expressions XD 00:34:52 the expression in the last square was simply priceless 00:34:54 yeah :D 00:35:07 cuz he looks so damn calm first 00:35:11 oklocod: i voted it 100% before you pasted it 00:35:12 and then realizes 00:35:16 iirc 00:35:29 okay i have high hopes for #2 too 00:35:47 well i didn't laugh, that just *made sense*. 00:35:54 it 00:36:19 these things are usually only funny in that they make very little sense 00:36:31 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-5679392-11-17 00:36:32 LOL 00:37:00 i think that is from the hall of fame 00:37:09 one of the oldest 00:37:19 still funny :P 00:37:47 but i think quality has gone up, obviously because of more people visiting 00:38:04 (on the selected comics) 00:38:19 um 00:38:21 the comics don't change 00:38:22 i think 00:38:32 no but the selections do 00:38:47 the more people visit, the more comics will compete for the selected listings 00:39:10 ah 00:39:10 and so they should become better 00:39:54 i don't think the underlying comics algorithms have changed either 00:40:20 but it's hard to be sure when they are not revealing anything 00:40:25 oklocod: http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=612-07-27 00:40:33 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1729-04-03 xD 00:40:40 i love these. 00:40:43 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=612-07-27 00:40:47 best one 00:41:06 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=341-07-05 00:41:08 also hilarious 00:41:25 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1995-06-02 00:42:06 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1920-08-20 00:42:06 LOL 00:43:10 * oerjan guesses ehird has checked out the forum discussion on silent panels 00:43:22 just finished reading the big thread 00:43:28 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-1286-10-03 <<< xD 00:43:37 okay i laugh at this more than xkcd. 00:44:04 well i guess it's partly because i'm tired and i opened a laugh-gate or something 00:44:19 don't forget to vote 00:44:22 oh 00:44:25 perhaps i could. 00:44:48 but really i think it's the faces 00:44:53 they're so live 00:44:57 but yes this is better than xkcd 00:45:48 warning: don't include your vote in pasted links 00:46:24 oh, you can do that? 00:46:34 oerjan: they should really use POST. 00:46:47 &vote=2 00:46:49 ah. 00:46:51 ehird: there are some bugs like that 00:47:52 the TODO list is growing quickly, and DMM says it won't be handled speedily 00:48:10 http://www.mezzacotta.net/singles/collapse_a_wavefunction.php 00:48:20 why is the unbaked cake eaten, and not the fully baked one? 00:48:45 dunno :P 00:48:46 oklocod: hm a conundrum 00:50:51 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1457-07-02 :D 00:51:11 oerjan: oklocod 00:51:12 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1995-08-22 00:51:14 it CHANGED 00:51:17 the lines are different 00:51:18 and the eyes 00:52:07 LOL 00:52:08 LOL 00:52:08 LOL 00:52:09 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?year=9999999&epoch=bc&month=01&day=01 00:52:56 changed? 00:53:29 oklocod: my birthday comic, just a bit 00:53:29 the eyes 00:53:31 and the mouthes 00:53:31 anyway 00:53:32 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-600000-11-05 00:53:57 that's weird 00:54:28 well it's cached after it has been visited once, maybe that changes something 00:54:38 nahh 00:54:42 cause i refreshed after that 00:54:52 but yeah 00:54:53 the eyes 00:54:54 or maybe they *shiver* changed the algorithm 00:54:54 and those ears 00:54:56 and the mouthes 00:55:00 oerjan: probably :( 00:55:56 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-1875-01-18 00:55:57 eliza 00:58:15 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-2137-11-25 <<< okay the cycle time isn't *that* long 00:58:27 i mean 00:58:33 well you prolly know what i mean. 01:00:25 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?year=1992&epoch=ad&month=03&day=18 01:00:56 you mean some of the lines repeat frequently 01:01:11 ais523: http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1005-03-16 01:01:14 oerjan: something like that. 01:01:21 exactly that, to be exact 01:01:46 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive_new.php?date=888-01-06 01:01:53 there are obviously several corpuses being used 01:02:02 some may be bigger than others 01:02:27 what i don't get is all thet parentheses 01:02:34 why don't they remove those 01:02:34 CHESS IS TRADITIONAL is from the IWC comic 01:02:40 iwc? 01:02:47 Irregular Webcomic 01:03:05 oh 01:03:09 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=642-04-16 01:03:10 i might've gotten IW 01:03:37 it was said by one of the Deaths when someone, i think Kyros got a chance to challenge him 01:03:43 hmm, that may be a lie, because i'm not sure i knew whether webcomic is written as one word... 01:03:55 guess i'm just surprised i didn't get it. 01:04:02 http://syndicated.livejournal.com/mezzahalloffame/ an almost-daily webcomic version lynched from the halls of fame 01:04:52 that comic is as weird as jerkcity 01:05:28 mbishop: i think that says more about jerkcity than mezzacotta 01:08:42 bye 01:17:11 lguhlughulghulgulgulgulgulghuglghuh 01:19:10 HELP, LAMENT IS DROWNING 01:32:10 http://i30.tinypic.com/2qdxv7r.jpg 01:32:12 guys 01:32:14 hot? 01:32:17 -!- Asztal has joined. 01:33:11 i'd do her 01:33:14 wait... it's a dude! 01:33:24 well it was a her 01:33:27 but not anymore 01:33:33 still has a vagina but 01:33:33 a poor dude, apparently 01:33:39 why poor? 01:33:55 a fan in the window and a chair that's not really a chair? 01:33:56 oh, if he has a vagina then it's all good 01:34:02 also sparce furniture 01:34:19 oh, its not his place. its his friends living room. 01:34:22 if he were rich he'd have fixed that vagina, obviously. 01:34:31 good point 01:34:35 lament: so you dont care if its a guy, so long as theres a vagins? 01:35:11 lament is _so_ object-oriented 01:35:18 no, i'm functional 01:35:24 its an interesting kind of bisexuality. 01:35:28 this is referential transparency we're talking about 01:35:34 ic 01:35:44 interesting in the same way that my homosexuality is interesting even tho i'd fuck a guy who has a vagina. 01:36:22 i'm guessing he's into women though? 01:36:30 who? this guy? 01:36:33 no lol 01:36:33 yeah 01:36:35 hes very very gay 01:36:41 woman turned homosexual? 01:36:47 what a waste! 01:37:02 oh thats nothing 01:37:13 i know a transguy (that is, female-to-male) 01:37:17 who's into cross dressing. 01:37:24 as a female. because hes a guy. 01:37:28 who just happens to have a vagina. 01:37:30 i'm sure it's genetic 01:37:38 or otherwise not a lifestyle choice 01:37:40 what, having a vagina? 01:37:52 vaginas ARENT a lifestyle choice 01:37:53 this is true 01:38:13 * oerjan recalls from somewhere about a guy who changed into a lesbian harley biker, or something like that 01:38:38 (probably biked before) 01:39:16 indeed 01:39:22 its not all that complicated really 01:39:31 gender is in the mind. 01:39:38 sexuality is in the mind. 01:39:44 cocks and vaginas are not. 01:39:52 well they could be in the mind 01:39:56 but that's probably illegal 01:39:57 and all three are separable 01:40:09 mbishop: cocks cant be in the mind 01:40:12 they can be in the brain 01:40:21 but brain != mind. atleast not technically 01:40:28 psygnisfive: well wait until we develop suitable psi powers 01:40:40 but it still wouldnt put a cock inside a mind 01:41:08 impregnation through telekinesis 01:41:10 mind is not a physical thing, its an organizational structure and pattern 01:41:50 well that's one theory. science doesn't really know. 01:42:03 ofcourse we know 01:42:08 people like nagel dont 01:42:12 nagels a twat, too. 01:42:16 who is nagel 01:42:31 a philosopher 01:42:37 who cant fucking reason 01:42:50 he uses lots of nonsequiturs 01:43:00 tht ultimately amount to "i cant imagine it, so its impossible!" 01:43:35 now really. the fact that _he_ doesn't know in no way implies that science does 01:44:05 since science is still incapable of physically reading thoughts directly from brain structure, it doesn't. 01:44:13 no, but i just like insulting nagel 01:44:47 i dont think theres anything TO know, to be honest 01:44:52 i mean 01:45:03 its obvious that were material beings 01:45:09 there is no soul, as far as we can tell 01:45:14 oerjan: except that it can... 01:45:27 oerjan: not to any great degree of precision, but lots of thought can be accessed 01:45:44 so what the nature of brain/mind is doesnt matter THAT much since we know it must be necessarily turing-equivalent 01:46:02 oerjan: oh sorry, from *structure* 01:46:12 and the functionalist model looks very similar to the brains behavior, to me 01:46:13 oerjan: you're right 01:46:16 absttractly 01:46:28 oerjan: but I'd argue that that's just a limit of our modelling power 01:46:57 oerjan: our linear computers take a long time to simulate that many neurons, and real brains take years-to-decades to develop 01:47:01 plus, thoughts arent structure 01:47:14 so ofcourse we cant read thoughts by looking at structure 01:47:44 psygnisfive: they come from structure plus stimulus though 01:47:54 psygnisfive: and granted, science isn't able to really model that 01:48:02 yes but the structure is mechanism + stored data 01:48:11 (because it's too much for any digital computer!) 01:48:12 thoughts are flows of information 01:49:05 a clear example of why structure is not thought: brain dead people have no structural differences, but they lack the information flow 01:49:30 structure was the wrong word 01:49:43 maybe 01:50:06 brain observation 01:50:14 what 01:50:15 ? 01:50:27 would be better 01:50:33 well regardless 01:50:57 modern science couldn't do similar from looking at a microchip. atleast, not in a reasonable amount of time. 01:51:12 and the brain is much larger than a microchip and doesn't operate on the same principles of computation 01:54:43 actually 01:54:52 i find it easier to imagine a brain-as-TM-simulator 01:54:58 when it does behave in those fashions 01:55:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:08:43 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:26:33 I've been thwarted by shoes again >_< 02:28:03 they're probably jealous of the hats 02:29:06 fucking hats 02:29:20 GregorR: the only solution is that you register choosemyshoes.com 02:29:38 Very, very bad idea :P 02:29:51 you think so? XD 02:30:13 I spend four hours today looking for shoes I can wear. 02:30:20 As it turns out, they don't sell leather-free shoes in Indiana. 02:30:44 I suddenly have a feeling GregorR is vegan. 02:30:50 I'm not. 02:30:55 I'm allergic to leather. 02:31:01 Which sucks arse. 02:32:52 ah 02:34:33 (More accurately, I'm allergic to chromium, which is used to tan most leather, and also process synthetic leather so I can't wear that either yee haw) 02:39:22 But then, I don't think I'd trade my effing weird allergy for the normal array of annoying allergies. 02:39:52 Having to pay $150 for shoes isn't as bad as sneezing a billion times a day for six months per year :P 02:40:03 indeed 02:41:56 I wouldn't like to sneeze at 11.6 kHz either. 02:44:44 * Dewi laughs. 02:49:35 Hmm, what would that sound like... 02:50:16 Probably just an 11.6 kHz sine, since it would be periodic at 11.6 kHz and you wouldn't really be able to hear the upper harmonics. 03:20:10 so how exactly is the dialgoue generated 03:20:26 comex: in what? 03:20:38 mezzacotta 03:20:45 they have not revealed it 03:21:26 what you can say is that it is based on several sources, such as an eliza-like program and their own webcomics 03:22:02 at least some characters depend on what was said previously 03:23:12 see the forum for what has been discussed 03:24:35 s/their own webcomics/their other webcomics/ 03:25:27 there are also some public-domain books in there, i think the bible for one 03:34:13 -!- Corun__ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 04:02:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:32:08 -!- rodgort has quit ("Coyote finally caught me"). 04:32:21 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:10:35 xkcd every day this week! 05:12:03 Anybody who considers themselves good at determining whether colors go together, please click wildly at http://home.codu.org/colormatch/ 05:13:02 the first two were almost identical. i guess that means they do. 05:13:08 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:13:35 black goes with anything, doesn't it >:D 05:13:43 It's supposed to :P 05:13:54 I'm generating some input data to attempt to make a neural net with. 05:14:01 I doubt it'll work well, because I think it's very subjective. 05:14:07 But it's possible that there are some humanish themes. 05:14:08 although to be honest i didn't like the other (purplish) color much 05:23:44 did you just switch the layout or was it part of the original process? 05:24:02 (in any case it seemed to be easier with plaids) 05:25:07 I just switched it on somebody else's recommendation. 05:26:49 * oerjan thinks his eyes are starting to have some illusion effect, so he'll stop 05:35:44 http://www.heyokay.com/wp-content/images/computer programming.jpg 05:36:42 i want a computer like that 05:36:47 Hahaha 06:14:10 -!- metazilla has joined. 06:14:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:14:18 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:16:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | and constants = first letter uppercase (because FOO, etc). 06:32:18 the typography work on those labels sucks 07:13:12 -!- Judofyr has joined. 07:21:46 -!- Judofyr has quit. 07:23:43 -!- Judofyr has joined. 07:38:27 -!- Judofyr has quit. 07:40:32 OK, wtf. 07:40:39 There's no way that color preference is deterministic. 07:40:52 Clearly I have too little data. 07:43:01 how many votes did you get? 07:44:13 1291 07:44:30 And cancel the last three lines, my previous result seems to have been a bug (although I'm not sure what bug >_> ) 07:44:41 heck i'm not even sure _my_ preferences were deterministic 07:44:53 Could it be a bug found between keyboard and chair? 07:45:06 They all are :P 07:45:13 Especially when your name is Gregor. 07:45:18 (Hyper-obscure reference++) 07:45:58 Heh 07:47:02 ah 07:47:20 * oerjan squashes a dung beetle 07:48:40 * Jiminy_Cricket hopes oerjan doesn't construe crickets to be dung beetles. 07:48:48 not at all 07:48:53 only Gregors 07:48:55 Phew 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:14:26 Just hit 70% legitimately 8-D 08:14:37 I doubt you can do much better than 70%. 08:32:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:47:01 70% what? 09:20:15 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 10:27:21 -!- M0ny has joined. 10:28:22 plop 10:30:21 hi M0ny 10:31:01 11:32:51 fungot: Plop, goes the BONUS BALL. 10:31:02 11:32:51 fizzie: whoooooooa!! 10:31:37 So excitable. 10:39:20 fizzie: what database is fungot using at the moment? 10:39:21 ais523: official records state sephiroth is traveling the world like everyone's been saying'... 10:39:45 The script for the Playstation RPG Final Fantasy VII. 10:41:35 Were you one of those logreading people? Tried out 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics, and Agora rules, yesterday. Both of those weren't too bad. 10:47:23 I don't exactly logread 10:47:32 but my bouncer records all the messages while I'm not here 10:47:35 then replays them when I join 10:47:44 Oh, right, there was that trick. 10:47:45 so it's like I've been here all the time, and I read scrollback rather than logreading 10:48:11 Well, logreading, scrollback-reading; same thing. 10:48:23 yes 10:48:52 fungot: Quote an Agora rule, please? 10:48:52 fizzie: any player can flip eir posture to any non-standing value by announcement. if e disqualifies the judge, to all players 10:49:07 the first sentence is verbatim from the Agoran rules 10:49:10 the second clearly isn't 10:49:53 Shortening the context gives more... "inspired" output. That FF7 thing had one word less context than this. 10:50:13 fungot: Why you have to always quote stuff verbatim? That's not fun at all! 10:50:13 fizzie: described elsewhere, and provides a tally of the voters' valid ballots on the various options. 10:50:20 also verbatim 10:50:27 Yes, it sounded suspiciously sensible. 10:50:30 oh dear, I seem to have memorised far too much of the Agoran ruleset... 10:50:34 fungot: another? 10:50:34 ais523: " impossible" is defined here to mean overwhelmingly psychotic behavior, a complete lack of interest in the game, each player's score is set to eir bvlop. 10:50:41 ok, that's more interesting 10:51:03 btw, setting score to bvlop is not a sensible operation at all, and wouldn't have been even when bvlop was defined 10:51:57 fungot: Can you generate more original stuff if you have a shorter context, like now? 10:51:57 fizzie: the stuck switches on an immune player which made the announcement that a judge 10:52:25 It's just that the coherence level decreases rapidly if I shorten the context. 10:52:41 I don't know what a bvlop is. 11:02:41 -!- Corun__ has joined. 11:09:03 -!- moozilla has joined. 11:20:02 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:20:04 -!- megatron has joined. 11:20:25 -!- moozilla has joined. 11:40:10 -!- metazilla has quit (Connection timed out). 11:41:09 -!- Corun__ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 12:16:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Jeeze. . . If you're going tu use C syntax, at least be willing to use the power of pointers.. 12:31:34 fizzie: it isn't any more, but it used to be base voting limit on ordinary proposals 12:32:02 which was 4 if you were a real person, and 0 otherwise, say if you were a computer program or consortium of people 12:32:17 fungot: more Agoran inspiration? You should meet Bayes. 12:32:17 ais523: what's happening? i think i... what! 12:32:35 fungot: that sounded pretty unusal for you... 12:32:36 ais523: oh, and once more to turn over a stone or two to see it? will you get involved...' blah, blah... 12:32:54 fungot: has your data source changed again? 12:33:20 ais523: like you wouldn't be standing here now. 12:33:20 anyway, time to go for a while, I'll be back soon, fungot 12:33:20 ais523: if i did go to that town across the river...... that's so rude... 12:35:09 Yes, that was fungot impersonating that game again. Maybe I should make it randomly pick from the available sources. 12:35:09 fizzie: then it really you, cloud? 12:35:23 fungot: No, I'm not Cloud. You must be confused. 12:35:23 fizzie: remember it! why now... no. i don't know what i'm made of! ......urk! 12:35:51 fungot: You're made of some Funge-98 code. Hope this helps. 12:35:51 fizzie: nothing. and, where is everybody? if you want! who do they mean.... don't leave me. something's wrong. 12:36:09 fungot: Calm down, everything's all right. 12:36:09 fizzie: i thought i would kick their butts. 13:15:21 :) 13:15:26 fungot is so delighting 13:15:26 oklocod: wait a minute, cloud! what can he do for ya......... i know this's kinda outta the blue, but...... that name? 13:15:37 not cloud 13:15:39 *cod* 13:15:45 oklocloud. 13:15:51 also i love this current one 13:16:00 it's like it's high 13:16:23 It might be partially because there's also the shorter context thing, the game script was so short. 13:16:29 fungot: Have you been inhaling things again? 13:16:30 fizzie: now, i can read sheet music for that! but if you're on a big splash. hold onto your drawers and don't get so caught up in these reports. 13:16:52 I didn't know bots can get high by reading sheet music. 13:16:57 random pick from sources would be interesting 13:17:10 hmm... what would happen if you supplied fungot with fungot data 13:17:10 ais523: did you... jealous? hmm? you... did you say something, and mr. president... i've never seen your faces ' round here before. goin' after me? 13:17:13 and used a really short chain? 13:17:20 probably it hasn't generated enough to be worth chaining from 13:18:11 okokokokokoko 13:18:15 -!- oklocod has changed nick to oklopol. 13:18:36 hmm... I saw your oko Underload program in scrollback 13:18:43 that inspires me to try it for myself, without looking at yours 13:19:09 +ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 13:19:10 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:19:18 wow, right first try, not bad 13:19:32 I need to add that output limitation thing to fungot. 13:19:32 fizzie: a lot easier. and believe in cloud...... it is not necessary to use that sailor suit. he is! 13:19:44 fizzie: don't you have the ... 13:19:44 ^ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 13:19:46 -!- fungot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:19:53 ah, not in the Underload program 13:19:57 Not there, no. 13:20:10 ais523: that was oerjan's 13:20:14 thutubot never breaks output in the middle of an S command 13:20:16 maybe it ought to 13:20:18 oklopol: ah, ok 13:20:20 Hey, that was pretty curious. 13:20:23 RAW >>> :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ <<< 13:20:27 *** glibc detected *** ./cfunge: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x080dbee0 *** 13:20:44 so in other words, my Underload oko program made fungot crash cfunge? 13:20:49 AnMaster needs to know about this 13:20:53 +ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 13:20:54 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:20:55 I wonder how easy it is to reproduce? 13:21:01 okay that was easy 13:21:08 hmm 13:21:13 okay that's exactly what you had 13:21:21 ah, did you come up with it independently? 13:21:24 i was kinda hoping it would have at least some difference. 13:21:25 yes 13:21:30 great Underload programmers think alike, obviously 13:21:30 i just wrote it 13:21:33 hehe 13:21:44 there are many steps you could do in different order 13:21:54 or are there 13:21:56 let's see 13:21:57 ais523: It seems to be very easy to reproduce, as it crashes whenever I input that program. 13:22:00 the ( )S could go anywhere after the first S and before the first ^ 13:22:20 -!- fungot has joined. 13:22:29 (It's not fixed, so don't bother testing.) 13:22:32 hmm... I suppose it would be neater to do it like this: 13:22:49 +ul (o )(~:S(ok)~*~:^):^ 13:22:49 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:22:55 is that shorter, I wonder? 13:23:00 +ul (o )(~:S(ok)~*S~:^):^ 13:23:01 o oko ...: out of stack! 13:23:04 hmm 13:23:06 oh 13:23:14 lol, i'm probably making the exact same change as you 13:23:20 you have a stray S in your program 13:23:22 keeping (o ) on stack and adding ok 13:23:23 but otherwise it's the same 13:23:24 's 13:23:26 yeah 13:23:53 oh, well yeah i just copypasted and changed the beginning 13:24:00 +ul (o )(~:S(ok)~*~:^):^ 13:24:01 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:24:03 yarr 13:24:11 that's probably as short as it gets 13:24:42 a finite oko would be even shorter, I think 13:24:56 (o )(:S(ok)~*):*:*:*^ 13:25:00 +ul (o )(:S(ok)~*):*:*:*^ 13:25:00 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko 13:25:03 +ul (o )(:S(ok)~*):*:*:*;*^ 13:25:07 +ul (o )(:S(ok)~*):*:*:*:*^ 13:25:07 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:25:08 +ul (o)S( o)(~(ko)*:S~:^):^ 13:25:09 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:25:16 +ul (o)S( o)(~(ko)*:S~:^):^ 13:25:17 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 13:25:27 heh, i'm getting pretty fluent at this too 13:25:30 +ul (o )(:S(ok)~*):*::**:*^ 13:25:30 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko 13:25:46 Challenge: given a positive integer, find the shortest way to write it in Underload 13:26:55 well what's the integer? 13:27:10 and just the number of x's to write, or in base something? 13:27:20 Underload constants are probably just as tricky, or more so, to work out than Brainfuck constants 13:27:24 :* ::** :*:* ::*:** are the first 5, I suspect 13:27:26 +ul (:*)(x)~^S 13:27:26 xx 13:27:30 hmm... why didn't that work? 13:27:36 umm 13:27:38 well, not so much of an individual program 13:27:39 because that's 2? 13:27:40 but a general task, like [[e:Brainfuck constants]] 13:27:42 but a general task, like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants 13:27:44 :* is 2, yes 13:27:58 ^bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++<<-]>+.>-.[[<]>[-<+<+<+>>>]<----<<[->>>+<<<]>[.>]<] 13:27:58 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko ... 13:28:01 :* ::** :::*** ::::**** works for all integers 13:28:06 but it could be shorter for most of them 13:28:16 I'm wondering what the general rule is to find the shortest program to produce a given integer 13:28:23 err 13:28:25 probably it's NP-hard or something, tbh 13:28:26 are you joking? 13:28:32 it's not np-hard. 13:28:44 well, 4 is :::***, but it's also :*:* which is shorter 13:29:23 is this let-your-nephew-irc-with-your-nick week, first oerjan then you, it's impossible to solve that :D 13:29:28 likewise the shortest way to write 5 is ::*:**, and 6 is probably :*::** 13:29:34 oklopol: no, it can clearly be brute-forced 13:29:40 no it can't 13:29:44 oh, ofc 13:29:50 when ais comes back, ask him about semidecidability 13:29:55 because some of the programs you try might not terminate 13:29:58 yes 13:30:00 sorry, not thinking straight there 13:30:03 hehe 13:30:14 probably there's general rule for programs made of : and * 13:30:23 *there's a general rule 13:30:40 probably for any non tc subset 13:30:50 hmm... I wonder what the first integer for which the shortest constant is mathematically undecidable is, probably it's pretty high 13:31:13 that can't be solved either, you can only solve a lower bound 13:31:16 and any non-TC subset whose halting problem is solvable, clearly it could be brute-forced 13:31:25 ah yes, undecidable undecidability 13:31:28 I can still wonder, though 13:31:35 yeah, sure 13:31:44 now, let's try 79 13:32:06 +ul (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)S 13:32:07 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:32:22 well 13:32:24 well, clearly that's beatable 13:32:30 yes, sure 13:32:33 AnMaster needs to know about this <-- ? 13:32:35 but that wasn't even the number 13:32:43 how to reproduce it 13:32:46 i mainly wanted to see how long 79 is :P 13:32:47 and what about backtrace? 13:33:00 +ul ::::::*:**::*:**:******(x)~^S 13:33:00 ...: out of stack! 13:33:10 +ul (::::::*:**::*:**:******)(x)~^S 13:33:11 ...S out of stack! 13:33:22 ugh, must be a typo there somewhere... 13:33:26 AnMaster: its' on fizzie's computer, not mine 13:33:30 ok 13:33:33 fizzie, details? 13:33:49 +ul (::::::*:**::*:**::******)(x)~^S 13:33:49 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:33:55 I can participate in going after it later. But I guess I could take a quick look under gdb right now. 13:34:15 well I'm leaving for the rest of the day within maybe 10 minutes 13:34:27 ah, slightly early bye then 13:34:55 Well, later, then. 13:34:57 so 1) how to reproduce 2) any backtrace (with -g or -ggdb3 and hopefully -O0) 13:35:10 +ul ((:*):*:*:*:*)(x)~^S 13:35:10 :*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:* 13:35:12 ais523: was that 79? 13:35:12 fizzie, need to go out and buy new clothes and such 13:35:16 ugh, hit typo by mistake 13:35:21 oklopol: was meant to be, I haven't counted though 13:35:28 (5*5*3)+4 13:35:39 yeah it is 13:36:00 I think it's probably possible to get it shorter, though 13:36:10 let me try 64, first 13:36:19 +ul (:*:*:*:*:*:*)(x)~^S 13:36:19 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:36:26 is it written as 2*2*2*2*2*2 13:36:32 I'm wondering if 2^6 would be shorter 13:36:44 +ul (:*)(:*::**)^(x)~^S 13:36:45 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:37:12 one char shorter, I think 13:37:30 and obviously the savings go up as you go to larger powers of 2 13:37:38 ah, and two chars shorter still: 13:37:44 +ul (:*):*::**(x)~^S 13:37:44 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:38:18 I wonder if 79 can be written shorter using that sort of trick? 13:39:31 +ul (::*::**:::***~::::::*******)(x)~^S [2, 3, 4]+7 13:39:31 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:39:34 +ul (::*::**:::***~::::::*******)(x)~^S 13:39:35 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:39:35 heh 13:39:37 hmph 13:39:40 oh, lol 13:39:41 ... 13:39:43 wait a sex 13:40:08 this is what you get for letting the computer do the thinking 13:40:13 I think thutubot just stops if it hits an unrecognised character, that makes sense given the way it's programmed 13:40:17 and not really thinking when asking it 13:40:52 nothing wrong with that as long as you don't trust the answer to have answered the question you were trying to ask 13:40:59 +ul (::*(::**)(:*)^:*:*~::::::*******)(x)~^S 13:40:59 ::**::**::**::**::**::**::**::**xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:41:02 ... 13:41:05 heh, that's wrong... 13:41:17 +ul (::*(::**)(:*)^^:*:*~::::::*******)(x)~^S 13:41:18 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 13:41:19 Well, it's the free_nogc() in STRN.c:122 that's hitting the glibc double-free thing. Will look at the details later. 13:41:20 ... 13:41:27 okay i give up for now. 13:41:36 mainly because i have to go -> 13:41:42 bye 13:41:54 hm 13:41:55 one thing 13:41:59 ^ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 13:42:00 -!- fungot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:42:05 ah reproducible 13:42:08 Yes. 13:42:16 I think I said so, too. 13:42:17 fizzie, well what is the link the the same version of the source 13:42:21 so I can test it locally later 13:42:25 hmm... where are the links for STRN? 13:42:32 I mean, the definition 13:42:36 ais523, STRN is RC/Funge one 13:42:46 ah, ok 13:42:49 I'm currently testing whether it works on the stand-alone Underload interp, because that's a lot smaller piece of code. 13:42:53 where's the link to those fingerprints? 13:43:04 fizzie, still I don't think cfunge should crash 13:43:14 so even if it is a bug in your program I want to debug this 13:43:34 fis@eris:~/src/bef$ echo '(o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^' | ~/inst/cfunge/cfunge/build/cfunge underload.b98 > /dev/null 13:43:38 *** glibc detected *** /home/fis/inst/cfunge/cfunge/build/cfunge: double free or corruptio 13:43:50 fizzie, well got a link to that underload.b98 ? 13:43:51 :) 13:43:58 And underload.b98 is at http://zem.fi/~fis/underload.b98 13:44:00 ais523, 0x5354524e STRN http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html 13:44:13 Easier to run than fungot, no need to use netcat to pretend to be an IRC server or anything. 13:44:45 fizzie, doesn't crash here, just runs for ages 13:44:58 It does run for quite a long time before crashing, here. 13:44:58 how long does it take to crash? 13:45:04 ah now it crashed 13:45:18 5-6 seconds here. 13:45:45 more than 15 here 13:46:01 #5 0x000000000041ab94 in finger_STRN_get (ip=0x15d20c8) at /home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/STRN/STRN.c:122 13:46:01 122 free_nogc(s); 13:46:02 maybe an infinite loop's filling up memory 13:46:02 hm 13:46:05 It's might also be using quite a lot of memory, since it keeps growing that string. 13:46:06 until it overwrites something else? 13:46:18 I think valgrind is the right tool for this... 13:46:21 the program is an infiniloop, after all 13:46:30 anyway it crashes on a free 13:46:37 clearly a case for valgrind! 13:47:00 is valgrind Boehm-GC compatible? 13:47:33 "invalid write of size 1" in stringbuffer_finish (stringbuffer.c:99) (from finger_STRN_get (STRN.c:115)) here, but you can run it on your own of course. 13:47:36 ais523, no but that is optional 13:47:42 ah, ok 13:47:44 fizzie, ah yes I see it too 13:48:36 off by one error 13:49:10 * AnMaster debugs, stringbuffer being external code he didn't write himself (was taken from another gpled project I'm a developer on) 13:49:13 -!- fungot has joined. 13:49:24 wb fungot 13:49:24 ais523: it's the shinra for all of a sudden and where is everybody? that wasn't even a tough one. if we solve the puzzles, the fourth floor is this...... ha, ha 13:49:38 fungot: Ha, ha. 13:49:38 fizzie: huh? there ain't no difference from before!! 13:49:53 fungot: Yes, you certainly seem to be as strange as you've always been. 13:49:53 fizzie: wake up. bye, then that's it!! so let's get it.) is where i was... 13:51:21 SMEM: "All commands reflect on error with the error code on the stack:" <--- arrgghh 13:51:40 I don't think any other Funge commands push something when they reflect... 13:52:04 * AnMaster pushes a fix 13:52:21 seems I got delayed in leaving for other reasons 13:52:29 pushed a fix 13:53:32 was an off by one error in a call to make sure the buffer was large enough 13:56:19 fizzie, ais523 ^ 13:56:27 Yes, seems workingy. 13:56:35 ah, ok 13:56:37 ^raw QUIT :let's get you a brand-new cfunge to run on 13:56:38 -!- fungot has quit ("let's get you a brand-new cfunge to run on"). 13:56:43 Cfunge? 13:56:45 Eww. 13:57:02 * ehird installs rc/funge and grabs the fungot code so he isn't contaminated 13:57:14 cfunge - fast fixes on bugs! 13:57:16 ;P 13:58:39 What can I say -- it certainly works better than RC/Funge. 13:58:50 thanks 14:03:06 fizzie, didn't it crash on too long string? 14:03:07 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1488-06-05 14:03:08 rcfunge that is 14:04:12 fizzie, also the bug would only have been triggered on a string that was exactly a multiple of 256 chars long. So that is why I didn't notice it before 14:04:40 Yes, RC/Funge has fixed 1000-byte arrays for about all STRN operations. 14:05:02 Yes, RC/Funge is like that. :-P 14:05:27 right, however this bug could have affected other fingerprints, I think the "read line" one in FILE for example. 14:06:18 since it was in a generic "build string by appending at the end" "library". 14:06:37 -!- fungot has joined. 14:06:43 wb fungot 14:06:43 ais523: like you more than sephiroth's shadow? 14:06:55 ^ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 14:06:57 Aww, he likes you. 14:07:01 * AnMaster waits 14:07:11 shouldn't it time out soon? 14:07:13 The program is still an infinite loop with very very long strings, so it might not work very well. 14:07:14 AnMaster: I suspect that you're filling up the memory of fizzie's computer 14:07:18 ah 14:07:23 Let's see what it's doing. 14:07:29 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokoko 14:07:32 ah 14:07:39 fizzie: did you just break it by hand? 14:07:49 ais523: No, it terminated by itself. 14:07:54 right 14:07:57 ah, it has a timeout? 14:08:01 ais523: There would be a "... out of time" at the end, but that got cut off. 14:08:13 +ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 14:08:14 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 14:08:18 It runs something like 10000 Underload instructions before time-outing. 14:08:29 Would be better to have a too-much-output thing too, though. 14:08:32 probably that isn't enough for serious programs 14:08:37 I wonder what Thutubot's limit is? 14:08:43 Serious programs? There are some? 14:08:43 it's non-trivial to work out 14:08:47 well, no 14:08:52 ais523, didn't you code thutubot? 14:08:55 but that doesn't mean they couldn't be written in theory 14:09:06 AnMaster: yes, but the art of counting in Thutu is mostly based on black magic 14:09:13 oh right 14:09:28 so it would probably take me an hour or so with a calculator to figure out exactly what its timeout was 14:09:54 fizzie, where does that underload program store it's stack thing? 14:09:57 I have written serious programs in a Thutu wimpmode, but the wimpmode does arithmetic 14:09:59 or whatever you use 14:10:38 http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1398-07-19 14:11:10 AnMaster: It's there in Funge-space, Y=9, negative X values. (Because STRN has that fixed delta, it's easier to have the stack growing that way.) 14:11:54 fizzie, right. but why then is the funge stack so large according to valgrind at the end of it 14:12:03 oh wait it reads it into stack every now and then 14:12:06 the whole thing? 14:12:27 It shouldn't, but it might easily have some bugs that cause numbers to creep up in the Funge stack. 14:12:31 ^ul ((foobarbazquux)~:^):^ 14:12:32 ...too much stack! 14:12:44 There's a reasonably small stack limit there, too. 14:13:08 +ul ((foobarbazquux)~:^):^ 14:13:29 ...too much memory used! 14:13:33 fizzie, well it is just that I found it pointless to shrink the funge stack in cfunge, it is a struct with a pointer to a malloced/realloced array, a size value and a top-of-actual-stack value 14:13:34 ah, that took a while... 14:13:40 I set the memory limit high deliberately 14:13:45 so it doesn't shrink it ever, exceptions: t 14:13:47 AnMaster: Actually with the oko program, yes, it does the string concatenation in the Funge stack. 14:14:17 t will not copy more than needed of the stack to the new ip 14:14:22 fizzie, ah right 14:14:51 I think the implementation of Underload * reads both strings to Funge stack, then uses STRN A to concatenate them, and writes the result back. 14:15:14 Probably would be more efficient just to copy things around a bit in the Funge-space. 14:15:16 ouch 14:15:40 Or maybe not; at least the STRN 'G' pop-string loop is likely to be more efficient than a Funge-coded loop. 14:16:23 considering how I do A... I calloc a new buffer large enough to hold both strings, then strncat them to that buffer. heh, was quite some time ago I wrote that, could rewrite it in a better way I guess 14:17:05 (reallocing one string and appending to that would be better I bet 14:17:10 ) 14:17:18 (foo)(bar) is stored in the stack as "bar\0foo\0", so * in any case needs to do quite a lot of copying to arrive at "foobar\0". Still, I guess at least TOYS has some funge-space copy operation. 14:24:25 Yes, * is indeed a simple 91g9G N91g1++9G A 91g1+:91p9P (with some other crud to notice stack underflow in there). 14:30:37 fizzie, hum? 14:30:41 ah 14:31:02 fizzie: is that using TOYS? 14:31:09 STRN I think 14:31:12 if so, you need the fingerprint-switch code too 14:31:28 since it kind of makes sense in STRN 14:31:44 * AnMaster has rewritten A, now running fuzz tests on it to check that there are no errors 14:31:59 It's using STRN, yes. 14:34:26 fungot: Do you PLAY with your TOYS? 14:34:26 fizzie: you stupid little!? why? can't you just settled down and had a nice girlfriend. 14:34:48 fizzie, which fingerprints do you use in fungot? 14:34:48 AnMaster: all right, it's been a horrific battle. the receptionist. yeah well, good luck, cloud. will guarantee your livelihood once the reactor keeps drainin' up! 14:35:03 STRN, SOCK, FILE, FING I remember 14:35:03 is this still the penny arcade dataset? 14:35:15 ehird: Final Fantasy 7 script. 14:35:20 ah 14:35:42 I keep FING, STRN, SOCK and SCKE loaded all the time; then I use FILE here and there, TOYS for ^reload (the space-clearing part) and SUBR for ^code. 14:35:46 That's probably all. 14:38:05 -!- Judofyr has joined. 14:44:19 fizzie: you have only ever said 3968 things in #esoteric 14:44:25 until optbot was set up 14:44:26 ehird: but i would need to try on paper 14:44:36 and until optbot was set up, only 58 questions 14:44:37 ehird: I know 14:45:21 afk now 14:50:56 My own logs list me 4040 comments made with the nick 'fizzie' on this channel before 2008-08-01. That's reasonably close; there's things like splits and such, and I might be counting something wrong too. 14:51:15 And 8802 lines in total, not counting this one. 14:51:25 Apparently I've been quite noisy lately. 14:51:52 yes, fungot's been driving traffic 14:51:52 ais523: he---y!! here i come, come, and my pay? don't gimme that!? who... who are you saying? 14:53:56 psht 14:54:01 I remember when optbot was the traffic-driver 14:54:01 ehird: Cannot allocate memory 14:54:04 and people conversed with HIM 14:54:19 Well, fungot's decidedly optbot-inspired. 14:54:19 fizzie: you can't fool me, liar! maybe we shouldn't stay in here now! ...oops! 14:54:19 fizzie: :) 14:55:40 And apparently wants out of the channel. Go figure. 15:36:00 71% :) 15:36:31 (For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, help me train a neural net to recognize whether colors go together by going to http://home.codu.org/colormatch/ ) 15:37:21 GregorR: what's the copyright status of your hat photos on choosemyhat.com? 15:37:59 ais523: Never thought about it ... ask permission before using, don't use for obscene purposes. 15:38:08 ah, ok 15:38:13 well, I'm not planning to for the moment 15:38:32 it was just that I was thinking about a programming project which might theoretically some time in the far future need photos of hats 15:38:36 and it reminded me of you 15:41:15 -!- Corun__ has joined. 15:43:20 -!- jix has joined. 15:47:51 My neural nets have sex now, btw. 15:48:18 (And being able to say that is the #1 reason to add sexual reproduction to a genetic algorithm) 15:48:24 heh 15:50:07 The sex system is already up to 68% :) 15:50:26 hmm, kinda intriguing, just read a chapter about minimax search for chess plus just a few really simple optimization rules i could easily have come up with myself; then "with alpha-beta search we get to about 10 ply, which results in an expert level of play" 15:50:35 (Due to skew in the input set 61% is free) 15:50:41 10 ply isn't an expert level of play 15:50:44 alpha-beta pruning is this trivial technique for pruning branches minimax will never consider 15:50:50 yes, I know it 15:50:59 I never got round to implementing it in my own chess program, though 15:51:08 but it's pretty trivial 15:51:24 how good would 10 ply be? 15:51:32 it depends on the evaluation function 15:51:37 if it's just evaluating material, rubbish 15:51:53 you'll survive most tactics, but can easily end up cornered strategically 15:52:01 the evaluation function here is simply counting the amount of pieces, possibly after doing singular extensions 15:52:07 err 15:52:13 counting plus weighing 15:52:30 I imagine it would fall to a strong aggressive attack, possibly one that throws away material 15:52:32 yeah, just evaluating material 15:52:42 or possibly a positional opening trap 15:53:04 well with singular extensions it becomes at least a bit harder to trap it 15:53:14 don't know how hard, i'm not actually that good at chess. 15:54:03 but this is AIAMA, i hear it's considered quite a good book, so i believe what it says. 15:54:18 AIAMA is good, yes 15:54:23 Minimax with alpha-beta is what *everyone* (something like 25 out of 30) did for the AI course project-work, which I had to grade. 15:54:26 despite me having not read it 15:54:30 heh 15:54:34 i have had enough approvals from cool people 15:54:37 That was our course book, too. 15:54:51 Although I think the acronym used was just AIMA. 15:55:02 yeah, nobody calls it aiama 15:55:03 yeah perhaps 15:55:10 http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ 15:55:36 cool ,peter norvig is directory of research at google 15:55:37 i was not aware 16:00:19 fungot: Don't you wish you had a real AI brain too? I can loan you that book if you want to write yourself one. 16:00:19 fizzie: and with them bringing in the world... 16:16:40 it seems my back can't take sitting. 16:17:08 you're supposed to sit on your butt, not your back 16:20:18 hurts so much i don't even find that funny 16:20:31 oklopol: probably you're on the wrong type of chair, then 16:20:43 holy fucking shit... i think i should lie down 16:20:45 err 16:20:49 i'm actually on a bed 16:20:53 ah, ok 16:20:55 perhaps i'll try my armchair. 16:20:58 beds aren't really designed for sitting on 16:21:18 i have awful posture 16:21:26 I have weird posture 16:22:33 i've always had an awful posture, for instance people think i'm quite short, because i'm usually crouching some 10 centimeters down 16:23:10 have had to stand and sit a bit more ergonomically, as my back seems to be starting to... well, die. 16:23:23 umm 16:23:31 and once again i forget a crucial verb 16:23:56 asdads, well at least the armchair helped a bit, thanks for making me realize i have a chair. 16:32:35 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*:*^ 16:32:36 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 16:32:39 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*^ 16:32:39 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko 16:32:45 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*^^ 16:32:45 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko 16:32:53 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*^!^ 16:32:53 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokoko okokokoko okokoko okoko oko o 16:32:59 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*^!!^ 16:32:59 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokoko okokokoko okokoko okoko oko o 16:33:04 ah, that's what I was aiming for 16:38:39 * mbishop squints 16:38:51 mbishop: have you never seen towers of oko before? 16:38:56 of course, it would be better with newlines 16:39:08 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*)::*:*:**^!!^ 16:39:09 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokoko okokokoko okokoko okoko oko o 16:39:19 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*)::*:**:*^!!^ 16:39:19 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokoko okokokoko okokoko okoko oko o 16:39:36 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*:*:*^!!^ 16:39:38 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 16:39:39 i can almost read that, but what are the !'s all about? 16:39:43 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*)::*:*:*:**^!!^ 16:39:43 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 16:39:47 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*:*^!!^ 16:39:48 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 16:39:52 +ul ()(o )(:S:a(S^)*~(ok)~*):*:*:*^!!^ 16:39:52 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokoko okokokoko okokoko okoko oko o 16:40:01 oklopol: the first one gets the working string off the stack 16:40:12 and the second one gets rid of the repeat of the longest okokoko 16:40:14 so it has one peaks not two 16:40:17 ah! 16:41:01 anyway, the programming technique I used there is one that I don't think I've seen used in any other language 16:41:01 (i actually said an "ah" out loud too, except it was because of my back, and more like "AGHHHHHHH") 16:41:32 basically you store continuations in an explicit data structure 16:42:10 yes, it's a bit like that 16:42:24 hmm, i'm seriously considering seeing a doctor. and that is not something i do lightly. 16:43:27 guess i could take those pills that reduce pain, too, but that feels like cheating 16:49:09 "continuations in an explicit data structure" sounds very much what I did in the Prolog-Scheme. 16:49:38 incidentally, the Underload divmod-by-constant I wrote used a similar trick 16:49:43 okay i cannot code with this back. 16:49:45 to divide by 10, it copied a program n times on the stack 16:49:56 each of which popped the 9 elements below it and ran the 10th 17:08:02 so 17:08:11 im going to work on a context free grammar for chinese stroke order 17:08:12 :o 17:08:49 chonese character i mean 17:11:16 I don't think I can do better than 71% :( 17:11:19 At least not with this data set. 17:11:49 GregorR 17:11:58 i will help you with neural net stuff 17:12:00 beacuse i like neural nets 17:12:16 http://home.codu.org/colormatch/ Help me by generating data :P 17:12:52 i did but i'll continue 17:12:54 GregorR: plz add accesskeys 17:13:03 I don't know how. 17:13:04 a,s,d for the three buttons respectively 17:13:08 GregorR: accesskey="a" 17:13:10 accesskey="s" 17:13:11 etc 17:13:13 on the button elements 17:13:22 Really? 17:13:23 That's it? 17:13:24 yes 17:13:30 One sec. 17:13:34 then alt-key or ctrl-key(on os x) activates it 17:13:38 you can do it on input fields too 17:13:39 and links 17:14:14 Done. 17:15:12 how many trains should I do? 17:15:15 30? 17:15:35 -!- metazilla has joined. 17:15:41 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:16:09 -!- moozilla has joined. 17:16:25 GregorR: 17:16:37 However many you'd like until you get bored :P 17:16:40 More data is more data. 17:17:09 GregorR: you got some training from me too 17:17:52 GregorR: I trained it a bit 17:17:55 how does it do now? 17:18:10 I would click them buttons, but I have no clue what colors "match". 17:18:23 fizzie: which look aesthetically pleasing together? 17:18:29 which colours "go" together? 17:18:40 I know the meaning, I just can't really tell. 17:19:15 blue goes with orange 17:19:23 fizzie: Just click yes if you like how it looks and no if you don't :P 17:19:41 fizzie: That's my problem, that's why I wrote this :P 17:19:48 That's just it, I'd end up doing "can't decide" on just about anything, with maybe a few "no"s in there. 17:19:49 fizzie: I want a computer to tell me if my tie goes with my shirt. 17:20:37 fizzie: are you colourblind? 17:20:45 If not, I think it's very easy to say "that's pretty" or "that's ugly". 17:20:49 ehird: No, just bad at making decisions. 17:20:50 For something that simple 17:21:19 GregorR: Does the script only ask for opinions on ones it thinks are good? 17:21:20 Try that. 17:21:30 and make a seperate ones for ones it doesn't like 17:21:39 so it's easier - "yep, that's right" or "no, that's wrong" 17:21:41 instead of a mix 17:24:16 -!- megatron has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:24:17 GregorR: 17:26:30 * GregorR reappears. 17:26:52 The script is completely unaware of the neural net. 17:26:56 The script just collects data. 17:31:38 GregorR: make it aware 17:31:38 :P 17:31:59 GregorR: better idea 17:32:04 make it only give ones the neural net isn't sure about 17:32:27 Yeah, it's a good idea, it's just a PITA because I didn't design it that way :P 17:32:52 GregorR: well do it :P 17:35:47 Incidentally, do you agree with my assumption that this should be determinable by a computer? 17:35:54 (At least ideally) 17:36:31 yes 17:38:31 Good, because I want a computer to tell me if my tie matches my shirt, damn it :P 17:39:18 GregorR: now modify the script 17:39:18 :P 17:43:05 I don't think you know how difficult that would be. 17:43:09 I would have to implement a neural net in PHP 17:43:20 Which isn't complicated ... 17:43:23 But still, Idowanna. 17:43:25 ERm 17:43:27 Idonwanna 17:43:32 (The 'n' is important :P ) 17:43:50 Gregor, that's brilliantly clever. 17:43:55 Besides, to be honest I doubt that would help all that much. 17:43:57 GregorR: no you dont 17:44:04 just interface with a commandline program 17:44:24 ehird: Presently the commandline program only knows how to evolve things and give their statistics :P 17:44:32 GregorR: tweak it a tiny bit. 17:44:52 ehird: Besides, I would have to interface with the /currently running one/, which is IPC. 17:45:12 pikhq: ? 17:45:58 a computer to determine your fashion? brilliant! 17:46:57 Althought that wouldn't help me, as I don't wear clothes 17:47:02 * mbishop stretches lewdly 17:47:13 Yay for text-based communication protocols. 17:50:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:30 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:51:41 GregorR: Neural net to see if colors match. 17:51:57 :) 17:52:46 Ah. When I say I want a computer to tell me if my tie matches my shirt, I'm not making a joke. That is really, truly the reason I wrote this :P 17:53:01 GregorR: after all, you get a computer to choose your hat... 17:53:05 (via human input, though) 17:53:13 Heh 17:53:22 I used to get a computer to do it totally randomly, but that wasn't democratic enough ;) 17:53:23 I'm not saying that it's a clever joke. 17:53:28 I'm saying that it's clever. 17:53:33 Big difference. ;) 17:56:20 I'm just trying to put it into its ridiculous context :P 18:05:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:10:25 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:16:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | a interpreter/VM/emu could store the compiled code in a cache, meaning that a program would only need to be compiled once. 18:20:34 http://divingintointercal.blogspot.com/ 18:20:45 ais523: http://divingintointercal.blogspot.com/ 18:36:51 "The bad news is that the previous sentence is the only good news." :D 18:41:48 "As a programming language, INTERCAL remains every bit as useful as it was over thirty years ago." 18:45:55 ehird: I've seen it before 18:45:57 has there been a new entry? 18:47:26 nope, no new entries since I last saw it 18:47:29 I'm worried it's dead... 18:50:13 -!- Corun_ has joined. 18:50:32 back 18:50:35 ais523: last post 07 18:51:08 ehird: this is INTERCAL we're talking about, I suspect it requires approx. 12 years before it can truly be considered dead 18:51:13 :D 18:54:28 -!- olsner has joined. 19:05:33 -!- Corun__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:06:19 -!- Thomsen has joined. 19:06:29 -!- Thomsen has left (?). 19:22:10 73% 8-D 19:25:46 Have you bothered to check how many % you'd get if you didn't use your fancy perverted sex-obsessed neural networks, and just used something like a mixture-of-gaussians model estimated from the "pair of colors -> goes-togetherness" data and a fixed threshold to get yes/no out of it? 19:27:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Antabus"). 19:28:42 Maybe it would be significantly less awesome, though. 19:32:09 fancy perverted sex-obsessed neural network == brain, right? 19:33:10 No, I think GregorR's having sex with his artificial neural networks, too. Or making them have sex together. Or some other depraved thing, anyway. 19:41:09 fizzie, any more issues? 19:41:38 Not that I know of, except that I still haven't fixed out an output length limiter in it. 19:43:20 no more crash? good 19:44:25 I just brought a ethernet switch today... opened the box... why the heck is there a cd in it saying "\nMy Digital Life" on it 19:44:42 because everything comes with random Windows programs nowadays 19:44:51 oh right 19:44:52 some of them are actually OK, but generally speaking you can throw them away 19:45:07 well it doesn't even say what's on it really 19:45:19 manual is my best guess since there is none elsewhere 19:46:57 ais523, I just can't see how there could be any windows program related to the switch, it is a consumer one, so no webui or settings or such 19:47:07 AnMaster: it doesn't have to be /related/ 19:47:09 it could be anything 19:47:14 ok... 19:47:15 my guess is some sort of digital photo album 19:47:43 well the cd have the name of the product on it too 19:48:06 the box of the product however says "independent of operating system" hehe 19:48:16 maybe it's an audio CD 19:49:23 well I'll check later, for now I got to move a few computers around, I may lose connection shortly (or it may work without dropping the connection) 19:50:54 Decided to be brave and just check how much I mess up if I try to add that output length limit to the underload interp without any testing. 19:50:57 ^reload 19:50:57 Reloaded. 19:51:05 ^ul ((x)S:^):^ 19:51:05 x 19:51:11 Uh... 19:51:17 did you limit output length to 1? 19:51:29 ^ul (Hello, world!)S( Hello, again!)S 19:51:29 Hello, world! 19:51:29 hah 19:51:30 No, not that I know of, and in any case it should add a "... too much output!" after it. 19:51:39 grr what a cable mess behind the computer 19:51:40 it's ending after the first S instruction 19:51:41 Seems like it just stops at the first S now. 19:51:42 Yes. 19:51:55 and several unconnected cables 19:51:58 AnMaster: how many computers do you have? 19:52:07 oklopol, two 19:52:28 and the other one is using a temporary 50 meter ethernet cable I happened to have around 19:52:34 to the main switch 19:52:42 but that just doesn't work well, you can't close the doors 19:52:51 so I bought a switch to have in this room 19:52:53 instead 19:53:05 I've got my ` test backwards, heh. And the "too much output" just gets lost because it's added too far away. 19:53:20 ^reload 19:53:20 Reloaded. 19:53:27 ^ul ((x)S:^):^ 19:53:27 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 19:53:30 Yay. 19:53:36 +ul ((x)S:^):^ 19:53:37 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 19:53:46 your output limit is slightly longer than mine, I think 19:53:51 Yes, mine is 777** 19:54:00 I can't remember what mine is offhand 19:54:02 So, 343 characters. 19:54:09 but I think that it's at least written in decimal, so I could check 19:54:16 my guess is 255 or 256, because I'm like that 19:54:43 It's also longer than my brainfuck limit. 19:54:44 ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++++<-]>[.] 19:54:44 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ... 19:54:56 That one's only ff*, so 225. 19:55:57 (To be entirely accurate, the limit is 777** characters for the entire IRC message, including the "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" part.) 19:56:12 The oko program should now be safe to run: 19:56:14 ^ul (o)(~:S(ko)*( )S~:^):^ 19:56:14 o oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokok ...too much output! 19:56:32 fizzie: what limits do you have? 19:56:58 thutubot has number of iterations of the main loop (a time limit), amount of output, and amount of memory used 19:57:09 main loop iterations doesn't easily correspond to commands, by the way 19:57:31 Stack length (10k characters), program length (if it tries to extend too far "to the left" -- but I'm not sure that works, I haven't hit it yet), amount of commands executed, and that output limit. 19:57:56 fizzie: shall I come up with a massively extending program for you to test program length? 19:58:10 +ul (:::::^):^ 19:58:23 oklopol: that extends stack not program 19:58:26 +ul ((S)S:::::^):^ 19:58:28 and thutubot will run it, but slowly 19:58:28 ...too much memory used! 19:58:40 SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ...too much output! 19:58:56 test test? 19:58:58 I think something like (((longsillything)!)~*:^):^ should grow, but that just results in a "out of time" thing. 19:58:59 still connected? 19:59:02 yay 19:59:03 ^ul (:*^):^ 19:59:03 ...out of stack! 19:59:10 ^ul (:*:^):^ 19:59:11 ...too much stack! 19:59:23 +ul ()(~(o)~:^):^ 19:59:29 the stack limit must be a lot shorter than the program limit... 19:59:56 I guess it is, in fact. 20:00:21 it's much harder to get a program that blows up exponentially if you can't put it on the stack 20:00:37 Well, I think a linearly extending program should work too. 20:00:41 probably impossible 20:00:47 I'll try linearly extending 20:01:02 ^ul (:^(foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo)):^ 20:01:02 ...too much prog! 20:01:06 Hey, you did it. 20:02:11 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:02:15 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:03:21 while rc/funge got lots of odd limits, for cfunge the only limits would/should be how large size_t is 20:03:48 I think it's still possible to create quite a short program, if you first fill the stack with two few-kilobyte strings, and then execute (~:^):^ 20:03:55 (and off_t or whatever it is that you use for files. can't remember) 20:04:07 Er, substitute "short" with "long-running" there. 20:04:13 AnMaster: rc/funge's limits are things like 1000, so they're even not odd 20:04:20 ais523, har har 20:04:44 * AnMaster don't feel like joking atm, got a fever so probably heading to bed soon 20:04:56 or probably have a fever* 20:05:01 sorry, oerjan seems to be inactive and someone has to make the bad puns 20:05:02 has in /me 20:05:10 ^ul (:(foo)S^):^ 20:05:10 foofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoofoo ...too much output! 20:05:20 Ha, I beat the repressive linear growth stopper. 20:05:21 hi ehird 20:05:29 ^ul (:()S^):^ 20:05:31 ...out of time! 20:05:36 aw. 20:05:45 ehird: the first program doesn't grow linearly 20:05:47 ^ul (:::^^^):^S 20:05:48 ...too much stack! 20:05:48 it's tail-recursive 20:05:51 ah 20:06:03 (:::^^^):^S <- shouldnt this be 3^3 20:06:06 ^ul (::^^):^S 20:06:07 ...too much stack! 20:06:19 ehird: :::^^^ is something silly like 3 nested infinite loops 20:06:29 um what are numbers then 20:06:31 3^3 is (::**)(::**)^ 20:06:35 ahh 20:06:39 ^ul (::**):^S 20:06:39 ::**::**::** 20:06:49 to output a number in unary use (x)~^S 20:06:52 == 4 20:06:53 i think 20:06:56 ais523: ah, thanks 20:07:00 ^ul (::**):^(x)~^S 20:07:00 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 20:07:11 oh, right 20:07:12 ::** is 3 20:07:16 ^ul (:*):^(x)~^S 20:07:16 xxxx 20:07:27 1 is the null string, always fun 20:07:29 :::^^^ means roughly f(f)(f)(f) 20:07:32 oklopol: yes 20:08:00 to be precise, it would be \f.f(f)(f)(f) 20:08:06 if not for the fact that the stack could change in the meantime 20:08:20 true 20:08:41 ^ul ()(~:(x)~^S( )S(:*)*~:^):^ 20:08:41 x xx xxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 20:08:46 +ul (:::***):::^^^(x)~^S 20:08:54 ais523: um what is that outputting? 20:08:57 it should be x xx xxx xxxx 20:09:01 +ul ()(:*)(::**)(:::***):::^^^(x)~^S 20:09:06 oklopol's program outputs an insanely large number 20:09:10 no 20:09:10 oklopol: let the first one end first 20:09:11 my program 20:09:13 ()(~:(x)~^S( )S(:*)*~:^):^ 20:09:16 ...too much memory used! 20:09:22 yours is doing powers of 2 I think 20:09:27 but why 20:09:28 now i have to work out why 20:09:30 I just put :* at the end each time 20:09:35 hmm 20:09:35 err 20:09:37 that's *2 20:09:38 do i have to do ::** 20:09:39 well, that's why 20:09:40 ...too much memory used! 20:09:44 right, right 20:09:45 so how do i do 20:09:48 (:*) is 2 20:09:48 :* -> ::** 20:09:50 (:*)* is * 2 20:09:53 to add 1 20:09:58 do (:)~*(*)* 20:09:58 ehird: well 20:10:03 add a : and a * 20:10:06 and you do addition by adding 1 in a loop 20:10:07 yeah 20:10:11 do what ais523 said 20:10:12 ais523, if everything comes with a cd these days, how comes the mobile phone (cell phone? Or is that US Eng.?) that *can* connect to a computer didn't came with a cd 20:10:13 ais523: great, it went over my head 20:10:14 :( 20:10:18 that is highly illogical 20:10:19 I was just starting to "get" underload. 20:10:41 ehird: basically, if you have ::** and you want to make it :::***, just do exactly what that says, concatenate a : and a * 20:10:49 oh, right 20:10:54 so (:)~* to put a : at the start 20:10:59 and (*)* to put a * at the end 20:11:02 right, right 20:11:03 thanks 20:11:08 ^ul ()(~:(*)~^S( )S(:)~*(*)*~:^):^ 20:11:09 * ** *** **** ***** ****** ******* ******** ********* ********** *********** ************ ************* ************** *************** **************** ***************** ****************** ******************* ******************** ********************* ********************** *********************** ************************ ...too much output! 20:11:12 :-D 20:11:14 i guess ais523's was actually less spoiling, because if you can't *program* that, you definitely can't *read* it. 20:11:37 esolangs have spoilers nowadays? 20:12:17 ais523: i meant if ehird asks how something is done, it's spoiling if you don't hint, but just write the program 20:12:27 ah, ok 20:12:40 hmm 20:12:42 what about subtraction? 20:12:54 "doing their homework" on channels with a subject that's actually taught somewhere :P 20:13:02 ehird: that's quite simple 20:13:08 subtraction is a pain, oklopol worked it out for emself eventually, and asiekerka gave up 20:13:11 it's quite simple if you know how 20:13:15 ehird: basically 20:13:17 but difficult to come up with in the first place 20:13:24 you know what :::*** actually does? 20:13:27 yes 20:13:30 okay 20:13:30 duplicates 3 times, conc... 20:13:32 AHA 20:13:44 so 20:13:45 you do 20:13:50 call the number, on (:) 20:13:51 now, after :::, do something, before ***, do something, you can make ::: and *** out of running :::*** 20:13:51 drop one 20:13:53 call it on (*) 20:13:54 drop one 20:13:54 yes 20:13:58 wee 20:13:58 and concatenate all that together 20:13:59 almost. 20:14:01 *well 20:14:02 :( 20:14:10 the latter drop one 20:14:13 oklopol: incidentally, there's an entirely different way to write +1 in Underload: :(:)~^~(*)~^* 20:14:27 how do you drop one from a string of *'s? 20:14:31 i mean, you *can't* 20:14:44 you have to come up with something that forms identity when used with * 20:15:10 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~ (*)~^S( )S :::(:)^!(*)^!()(*)^ ~:^):^ 20:15:11 ...bad insn! 20:15:13 ais523: yeah, that's actually a good way to get substraction 20:15:22 ehird: spaces 20:15:24 nonono. 20:15:49 oklopol: ah, it would be, I don't think I've ever done it like that though, but probably it would be a computational order more efficient than the way I normally do it 20:16:00 whereas for addition it's a computational order less efficient 20:16:05 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~(*)~^S( )S:::(:)^!(*)^!()(*)^~:^):^ 20:16:05 *********** ** ...out of stack! 20:16:29 ais523: you talking about subtraction or addition? 20:17:29 ehird: :::*** actually makes a (::::) when you call it on (:), so it's not actually drop *one* 20:17:40 ah 20:17:47 damn 20:17:50 i don't kbnow what to do then 20:17:51 oklopol: I'm talking about that technique for both, it makes subtraction faster but addition slower 20:18:04 as for subtraction you can generate lots of !s and ()s 20:18:07 ais523: what do you usually do for subtraction? 20:18:09 ehird: well 20:18:12 look at it like this 20:18:22 first, you use the number on (:), that's a given 20:18:24 oklopol: -1 in a loop 20:18:42 but you actually want the effect of two less :'s 20:18:46 so what do you need to put here? 20:18:56 half a :? 20:18:56 :| 20:19:00 oh hm 20:19:01 umm. 20:19:02 no 20:19:03 !:? 20:19:14 you have(:::***) generate :::: 20:19:17 so now the stack is 20:19:24 (x)(x)(x)(x)(x) 20:19:30 and you want (x)(x)(x) 20:19:36 oh, right 20:19:40 yeah. 20:19:50 now, you cannot make "two less *'s than the number" 20:19:55 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~(*)~^S( )S:::(:)^!(*)^(!!)*()(*)^~:^):^ 20:19:56 *********** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ...too much output! 20:20:01 so you need to make four *'s as well 20:20:24 the problem is, with four *'s on three (x)'s, you concatenate random crap into them 20:20:32 yes 20:20:38 so put something on there first 20:20:39 so you need to add something more in the middle of the number 20:20:40 () 20:20:40 yes 20:20:47 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~(*)~^S( )S:::(:)^!(*)^(!!())*()(*)^~:^):^ 20:20:47 exactly, and how many? 20:20:47 *********** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ...too much output! 20:20:52 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~(*)~^S( )S:::(:)^!(*)^(!!()())*()(*)^~:^):^ 20:20:52 *********** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ...too much output! 20:20:57 shrug :P 20:21:04 exactly as many as you have there. 20:21:14 so wher be my fuckup 20:21:32 **** run on three (x)'s concatenates exactly two pieces of random crap into it 20:21:32 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~:(*)~^S( )S:::(:)^!(*)^(!!)*()(*)^~:^):^ 20:21:32 *********** 20:22:12 * oklopol reads 20:22:46 (:)^ this is equivalent to just : 20:22:52 do you mean (:)~^? 20:23:00 that would make the :'s you need 20:23:04 ahhhhh 20:23:10 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~:(*)~^S( )S:::(:)~^!(*)^(!!)*()(*)~^~:^):^ 20:23:10 *********** 20:23:47 err 20:23:47 ehird: ()(*)~^ is clearly not what you want 20:23:48 ^ul (:::::*****)(~:(:)~^(!!)*(()())*~(*)~^*:(x)~^S( )S~:^):^ 20:23:49 xxxxx xxxx xxx xx x ...too much output! 20:23:53 Just had to try. 20:24:05 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~:(*)~^S( )S:::(:)~^!(*)^(!!())*(*)~^~:^):^ 20:24:06 fizzie: that simplifies a bit 20:24:06 *********** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ...too much output! 20:24:27 ah wait 20:24:31 its running it on the weird !!() thing 20:24:32 damn 20:24:35 ais523: I know. 20:24:38 ^ul (::::::::::**********)(~:(*)~^S( )S:::(:)~^!(*)^(!!())*~(*)^~:^):^ 20:24:39 *********** ...too much prog! 20:24:55 ehird: what's the first ! about? 20:25:12 you create an concatenated piece of :'s on the stack, and then drop it? :D 20:25:26 you shoud comment your underload 20:25:49 oh fuck this 20:25:49 :D 20:25:51 *should 20:25:55 are you giving up? 20:26:10 My second thought was to do something like 20:26:11 ^ul (:::::*****)(~:(:)~^(!!!)*(()()())*~(*)~^*:(:)~^~(*)~^*:(x)~^S( )S~:^):^ 20:26:11 xxxxx xxxx xxx xx x *x ...out of stack! 20:26:12 maybe 20:26:19 i'll write a more interesting program 20:26:20 That's not pretty either. 20:26:33 hmm 20:26:36 i wonder how i could do dip 20:26:56 dip : 'R 'a ('R -- 'S) -- 'S 'a 20:26:57 dip is very neat in Underload 20:27:01 ais523: let me work it out 20:27:21 +ul (::::::******)(~:(*)~^S( )S:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*~:^):^ 20:27:23 ******* ****** ***** **** *** ** * ...too much output! 20:27:26 yay 20:27:31 :D 20:27:35 i love underload 20:27:35 oklopol: get it to terminate when it's finished? 20:27:43 yeah was just thinking that 20:28:40 ais523: dip = ~a*^ 20:28:55 yes 20:29:20 ais523: hmm 20:29:21 isn't it aa 20:29:26 ... no 20:29:54 +ul (::::::******)(~:(*)~^S( )S:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*:()~(~:^)~(!()())~(a)~^^!~!^):^ 20:29:56 ******* ****** ***** **** *** ** * ...too much output! 20:30:02 (foo) (bar) (koed) -> (foo) (koed) (bar) -> (foo) (koed) ((bar)) -> (foo) (koed(bar)) -> voila 20:30:16 i didn't even work ~a*^ out on paper, a first for me 20:30:24 seems i have to go -> 20:30:29 i had to close my eyes to concentrate enough though 20:30:59 bye oklopol 20:43:19 -!- lilja has joined. 20:43:34 hats! 20:43:41 fungot now trained with the intercal manual; but I couldn't figure out how to generate nice non-wrapped text out of groff, so... 20:43:41 fizzie: please abstain from gerund list, line label of which was abstained from. however, as these routines might 20:43:54 So it stops dead in the middle of sentences. 20:43:59 fizzie: the Revised Manual, or the Revamped Manual? 20:44:09 presumably Revised as it was groff 20:44:17 Whatever was in the doc/ directory of c-intercal 0.2.4 or something. 20:44:32 There's a better manual I could've used? 20:44:34 revised, then 20:44:37 yes, there's a new one 20:44:39 which is much longer 20:44:43 in Texinfo 20:44:45 Ooh, that sounds better. 20:44:50 but it's only in the more recent versions 20:45:18 fizzie: http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/doc/ick.txi is the source 20:47:40 Let's see what reading that does to fungot. 20:47:41 fizzie: maybe don't give your name ( in other programming languages. 20:47:51 fungot: another? 20:47:51 ais523: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions 20:48:00 Sounds like a table. 20:48:06 it's the "portability" boxes 20:48:13 Heh. 20:48:13 there are lots of them 20:48:17 fungot: Could you ignore that? 20:48:17 fizzie: copyright ( c). to install elsewhere ( in this way. note that the program can either decide that it needs to be used; a default value will be available to unpack the installation directory, so otherwise there would be executed. 20:48:32 fungot: more Revamped Manual info? 20:48:33 ais523: however, clc-intercal uses lowercase to represent multiplication by 1000000 writes a backslash before the current directory by typing `cd ick-0.29') on the user to find the appropriate cross-compiler to translate its programs from the internet, including any `once' or `next from's, `next from's aiming at a command whose line label that the compiler doesn't use them.) 20:49:08 That didn't make much sense. 20:49:16 fungot: make more sense 20:49:16 ais523: this is tested mostly with that compiler, what actually happens, then the file it was hardcoded as a function ( for instance, `-h' ( currently the only way to pop the top of stack. 20:49:33 So "-h" is the only way to pop. Right. 20:51:31 I don't think the bot is being a very useful intercal reference; I guess I'll switch to some other text. 20:51:49 fungot: last try? 20:51:49 ais523: there is a fatal error ( e000) due to the error that would otherwise not have to simplify the program will end up with a higher character code; the ' marker'; a marker is represented as a thread, one digit at a labeled statement, and c-intercal version 0.29). 20:52:11 fizzie: Idea. 20:52:29 fizzie: Feed it the first million digits of pi, make it always start on 3. 20:52:42 and make it based on 2 chars 20:54:07 Wouldn't that just make it a less-than-stellar RNG? 20:54:41 fizzie: Well, maybe. 20:54:42 Hmm. 20:54:46 fizzie: Make it order=10 chars. 20:54:52 It'd look like pi, unless you knew pi. 20:55:24 I'd think any string of random digits would look like pi, as long as it "starts right". 20:55:36 there's that Pi programming language, isn't there 20:55:45 which encodes the program as subtle errors in digits of the number pi 20:57:37 In the wiki there's also "Another Pi Language", where the source code is two arbitrary integers; first is the index in pi and second is the amount of digits to read; that is then interpreted as "source file of any language". Unsurprisingly unimplemented. 20:57:59 that language should itself be Pi, obviously 20:58:13 Pi seems to be the errors-in-pi one. 20:58:20 no, I meaan 20:58:26 the "source file of any language" should be Pi source 20:58:38 thus you have to find a Pi program embedded in Pi 20:58:49 Yes, I understood that. 20:59:28 At least the Pi article has an implementation that will convert brainfuck into it. 21:18:03 wtf 21:18:21 this new phone only have weird sounds, no classical beeping ones 21:18:28 * AnMaster liked that with his old old phone 21:18:31 I guess I 21:18:33 that's common practice nowadays 21:18:37 hm *.aac 21:18:38 you have to /pay/ if you want beeps 21:18:43 download them from a beep website 21:18:45 I guess I could make one and transfer it 21:18:46 there has to be one 21:19:14 ais523, I don't have internet on my phone. Only pay for a cheap connection 21:19:20 ah, ok 21:19:29 even then there are numbers you can ring for that sort of thing 21:19:31 since all I need is to make calls and to send sms 21:19:32 but it's expensive 21:19:37 * ais523 doesn't have a mobile at all 21:20:01 my old phone was an old one with black and white screen. However, you could make your own tunes on it 21:20:05 you can't on this one 21:20:09 pretty strange 21:20:14 oh, it makes sense 21:20:20 you used to be able to send texts for free 21:20:26 err? 21:20:32 but the phone companies realised people would pay for the privilege 21:20:36 so they started charging 21:20:40 that was a few years ago now 21:20:46 on my old phone I could make my own beeping sounds 21:20:55 it didn't even have non-beepy ones 21:21:01 beepy ones were the only mode 21:21:22 why can't I just make my own beepy ones on it 21:21:31 because people will pay to download them 21:21:35 I won't 21:21:43 well, some people will 21:21:49 and that's all the phone compaines care about... 21:21:58 I will try to figure out how to export to the *.aac format and then find a laptop with bluetooth to transfer it 21:22:14 * AnMaster looks in his midi collection 21:22:19 or I could make it myself 21:22:33 I *can* play the piano and I do have a keyboard + midi cables 21:23:16 .aac = apple's format 21:23:34 -!- ab5tract has joined. 21:23:35 hm wikipedia says "ISO/IEC 13818-7:2003" 21:23:35 AnMaster: if you give me a bunch of files i can make them into aacs 21:23:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding 21:23:39 well, yeah, it's standard 21:23:44 but itunes uses it by default 21:23:47 as well as the itunes store 21:23:47 and such. 21:23:55 ehird, I would be surprised if there is no tool to convert for linux 21:24:09 also I need to select one 21:24:12 there seem to be ways to convert FROM it 21:24:13 and to play 21:24:15 but not to convert TO 21:24:27 well, wait 21:24:35 ah I know... 21:24:35 AnMaster: faac 21:24:36 hehehe 21:24:37 AnMaster: ISO/IEC 29500:2008 21:24:38 install FAAC 21:24:41 The Internationale 21:24:45 lol 21:25:06 that's what I used on my old phone anyway. 21:26:23 hm how to render the midi file to beepy sound like a phone. 21:26:24 AnMaster: you could just use a ringing sound. 21:26:31 also, what phone is it 21:27:01 "Nokia 3120 Classic" 21:27:37 AnMaster: are you sure it doesn't support midi? 21:27:39 most phones do 21:28:04 ehird, no, I'm not sure, I just checked what format the existing files were in 21:28:11 AnMaster: try and put the midi on. 21:28:41 ehird, my computer lacks bluetooth, so I'll need to try it later when I get access to a laptop with bluetooth 21:28:51 AnMaster: usb? 21:29:06 ehird, "cable not included with phone" and I didn't think I would need it 21:29:11 + they didn't have it in stock 21:29:42 memory card: no I don't have any micro-sd reader or cards, my camera use compact flash 21:29:51 which of course would be too big for a phone 21:30:39 actually micro sd even 21:30:47 and I don't have such a reader either 21:32:10 why can't they make phones like my old nokia 2100 these days? :( 21:32:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:33:12 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:44:30 -!- jix has joined. 21:45:35 it seems Keymaker just proved Sceql TC 21:52:50 i wish it wasn't just a compilation, i can't exactly reverse-engineer what happens 21:55:04 -!- kar8nga has joined. 22:12:10 -!- ab5tract has quit. 22:17:52 ais523, that cd with the router: acrobat reader + manual. So it was just badly labeled 22:18:14 ok 22:27:20 one page manual per language heh 22:27:31 (wouldn't printing it be easier?) 22:27:35 (and cheaper?) 22:44:30 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:45:29 fizzie, grr I can't find url to fungot 22:45:29 AnMaster: guess everyone's here... cloud. 22:45:36 so where is it now again? 22:45:55 ^help 22:45:55 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] 22:45:58 ^show 22:45:59 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 22:46:08 oh, for a moment I though fungot was a real user, and was trying to figure out what its line meant 22:46:08 ais523: no matter how you feel it. then we'll know that's our memory...... calling...... that thing's not human...... 22:46:21 ais523, hah 22:48:21 fizzie: put lovecraft in to it 22:59:39 -!- lilja has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:59:57 fungot: do you still speak Agoran? 22:59:57 comex: wasn't it? 23:00:03 no 23:00:20 comex: not any more, fizzie filled it with something else 23:00:27 fungot's spouting a computer game script now, I think 23:00:27 ais523: i'm... i'm so disgusted with the story about sephiroth.... you really have to kill me!! that young fellow!? 23:11:58 Okay, fungot now has the lovecraft. 23:11:59 fizzie: on the other, he knew that it touched on the scenes i had haunted, and i felt myself touched by the contagion of the morbid fnord. to my mind rushed fragments of a more provocative nature. there were cities under the sea. 23:12:59 AnMaster: The raw sources are http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt and if you replace b98.txt with html you'll get the silly only partially done commentation. 23:13:00 fizzie: moon over japan, fnord with filth, where a bit of fnord but iranon stayed ever young, and of shadowy companies of heroes that ride fnord white horses along the edges of the aperture itself in my ascent, and managed to avoid any distant glimpse of the broken columns and crumbling sphinxes of that fearful city which lived and died before the years of man. 23:13:33 ^def source ul (http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt)S 23:13:33 Defined. 23:13:36 ^source 23:13:36 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 23:13:45 fizzie, hope you like that idea 23:16:17 ^save 23:16:18 wati 23:16:24 fizzie, ^save I guess 23:16:54 fizzie, also firefox 2 says that a script have stopped responding on http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.html 23:16:55 -!- megatron has joined. 23:16:56 AnMaster: " ia! shub-niggurath! as a foulness shall ye know them,' he asked softly, ' did you see it here... and smell it?' and when mr. ward, it is hard to place the fragmentary dream-glimpses in the fnord lips an all but impassable barrier. from my experience i cannot doubt but that you will want to lead an expedition to the desert and its carven stones. 23:17:03 wondering if I want to abort it 23:17:03 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 23:17:20 -!- moozilla has joined. 23:17:27 fizzie, oh and lovecraft in fungot sucks 23:17:28 AnMaster: as the newspapers told, we sailed from boston harbor on september 2nd, 1930, taking a leisurely course down the coast and through the doorway came a faint but peculiarly hateful odor must represent the collected sections of the entity which lake had tried to follow backward the frescoes he had passed the open fnord purple slopes. against these fnord i have proven false to alos, my friend was always far ahead; i could 23:19:32 fizzie, also does fungot use any other fingerprints apart from FING STRN SOCK SCKE FILE TOYS SUBR 23:19:33 AnMaster: he was half crazy himself, and stuff them fnord into an account of his sea voyaging, had a depth and hollowness that could not be applied to analogous qualities in a fnord and promising cat now, and have kept certain doubts and guesses to ourselves with splendid unity and fnord. 23:26:28 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:27:59 ^save 23:27:59 OK. 23:28:06 Haven't tried saving underload programs yet. 23:28:10 I don't think it uses any others. 23:28:19 ^show source 23:28:19 (http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt)S 23:28:32 Nice, although it should be in the ^help text optimally. 23:28:48 Of course, given the underload interp I think I could just replace ^help with a program like that. 23:29:12 (The only thing missing would be that currently it gets the '^' command character from whatever you define it in the loader. Oh, well.) 23:29:49 The script does quite a lot of computation; it shouldn't be in an infinite loop, but FF2's JavaScript engine is quite a lot slower than FF3's. 23:30:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:32:09 fizzie, ah right 23:32:17 it tooks 3 clicks in that dialog for it to finish 23:32:19 in ff2 23:32:35 fizzie, oh you got an fd leak on ^raw quit 23:32:44 ==16011== Open AF_INET socket 3: 192.168.0.64:38732 <-> 85.188.1.26:6667 23:32:44 ==16011== at 0x35FAEC1267: socket (in /lib64/libc-2.6.1.so) 23:32:44 ==16011== by 0x41967E: finger_SOCK_create (SOCK.c:376) 23:32:46 ... 23:33:03 not very major 23:34:38 fizzie, anyway what fingerprints and what functions from which fingerprints are used. Since I consider fungot very important I want to make sure those instructions perform well. For example I rewrote A of STRN to be a bit faster today (could probably be made even faster) 23:34:39 AnMaster: the reason why arthur jermyns charred fragments were not collected and buried lies in what was certainly not english. i boarded it and looked vainly about for the light fnord as i was, i could at least bar others from the outside, so the party was somewhat abated. vast walls shot up, and in 23:35:35 also STRN is kind of weird. I mean it copies between stack and funge space, yet converts them to unsigned char* in between. I mean... what a waste. But I guess using strings of funge_cell could break stuff 23:46:51 Yeah, I don't bother closing that single socket I have. 23:47:05 I do properly close the language model files I open every time someone speaks to the bot. 23:47:25 fungot: Go back to IRC chat for now. 23:47:26 fizzie: or simply sub by 47 23:50:52 Let's see... from FILE I use G/P for the state file (not performance-critical at all) and then R/S a whole lot for the babbling; FING Y/Z but not much; from STRN it's mostly G, P, N, L, C, A, S, V approximately in that order of frequent use (so G/P most, S/V pretty much in the state file saving/loading only); ... 23:51:45 -!- Corun__ has joined. 23:52:10 From SOCK it's just R/W most of the time, from TOYS only S to clear the old code when ^reloading (so it might be good if S'ing to value 32 would actually clear those cells), and from SUBR only a C/R pair for ^code. 23:55:16 Now I sleep. 23:59:09 -!- Corun_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).