00:00:03 actually there are certain well defined orderings for adjectives that seem to hold across languages. :) 00:00:20 indeed, it's "iso punainen pallo" in finnish too 00:00:21 that seems unlikely. after all psygnisfive is not green. afaik. 00:00:48 you can probably deduce punainen:fi means red and iso:fi means big 00:01:28 i guess the romance distinction between adjectives that go before and after the noun follow the same pattern? 00:01:52 psygnisfive: what are the orderings? 00:02:00 *follows 00:02:35 actually, romance adjectives that precede the noun are very rare, are restricted to certain classes of adjectives, and the readings you get from putting them before the noun are not the same as the ones from after the noun 00:03:02 i thought big and little were pretty rare too 00:03:02 e.g. in italian, "un uomini grande" (or whatever the exact words are), means "a large man" 00:03:19 but "un grande uomini" means "a great man/man of great character" 00:03:31 as for the ordering, i cant give them to you off the top of my head 00:03:32 oerjan: it's the color that does it, not the size 00:03:41 iirc you mean "uomo" 00:03:54 yeah uomo 00:03:58 uomini is men 00:04:01 on bathroom doors 00:04:02 XD 00:06:39 hm possibly little placed after other adjectives has a slightly different meaning too 00:08:50 i sense sort of a diminutive connotation 00:09:16 yes. the standard, non-interesting ordering is mostly the same across languages 00:09:21 in english you can reorder for emphasis 00:09:38 for instance if you have two large books, one red and one blue 00:09:46 and a small red one 00:09:54 and someone says which do you want? 00:10:02 you could say, the red one 00:10:05 and they would say, which red one? 00:10:07 you could say 00:10:19 the red LARGE one. 00:10:23 or whatever 00:10:24 i dont know 00:10:25 :P{ 00:12:04 is that a sad face with a funny nose or a funny nose with a sad smile? 00:12:06 err 00:12:09 i mean 00:12:15 or was the { a typo 00:12:35 psygnisfive has a very strange beard 00:12:42 or some serious drooling 00:12:44 type, bitch 00:12:54 type? 00:13:05 typo 00:13:07 of typo 00:13:11 type typo 00:13:12 typoe 00:13:28 edgar allan typoe 00:13:35 never typoe in a canoe 00:13:40 -!- Corun_ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 00:15:05 avoid silly metaphors like the plague 00:15:28 and don't exaggerate even if your life depends on it 00:16:56 also avoid silly syntactic ambiguities like the plague 00:19:38 especially if you don't have a barn fell 00:20:06 the horse that raced past the barn fell fell? 00:20:36 your mother 00:20:43 bye 00:20:50 bye 00:20:55 bye 00:20:56 <3 00:21:27 in one fell swoop 00:22:32 i think people who claim fell can only be a verb have something to hide 00:24:03 :D 00:34:55 my opinion of them just fell 00:35:46 my opinion of your mother just fell 00:35:52 fell fell fell fell 00:35:56 psygnisfive: stop insulting my mother 00:36:00 ^choo fell 00:36:00 fell ell ll l 00:36:05 ^choo fellfellfellfellfell 00:36:05 fellfellfellfellfell ellfellfellfellfell llfellfellfellfell lfellfellfellfell fellfellfellfell ellfellfellfell llfellfellfell lfellfellfell fellfellfell ellfellfell llfellfell lfellfell fellfell ellfell llfe ... 00:36:20 ^choo choo 00:36:20 choo hoo oo o 00:36:28 ^ choo boo 00:36:32 blah 00:36:35 ^cho lament 00:36:35 lamentamentmententntt 00:36:43 ^cho oklopol 00:36:43 oklopolklopollopolopolpololl 00:36:48 haha i love that 00:36:49 ^cho bana 00:36:49 banaananaa 00:36:56 %choo fell 00:37:00 ^cho ban 00:37:00 ^choo fell 00:37:00 banann 00:37:00 fell ell ll l 00:37:14 what determines whether there're spaces or not? 00:37:18 ^choo 123 00:37:19 123 23 3 00:37:19 lament: cho/choo 00:37:31 ^cho cho 00:37:31 chohoo 00:37:33 ^choo choo 00:37:33 choo hoo oo o 00:37:35 ^choo chatanooga 00:37:35 chatanooga hatanooga atanooga tanooga anooga nooga ooga oga ga a 00:40:33 ^cho khaki 00:40:33 khakihakiakikii 00:41:24 oerjan: it's really annoying when you play with the bots for so many screenfulls..... 00:41:53 ^cho choo choooo 00:41:54 choo choooohoo choooooo chooooo choooo choooochoooohoooooooooooooo 00:42:16 ^choo `sk 00:42:16 * oerjan swats oklopot with a kettle 00:42:16 `sk sk k 00:42:20 ^choo `s`kk 00:42:20 `s`kk s`kk `kk kk k 00:42:42 can that work? 00:42:46 ^choo ``s`kk 00:42:46 ``s`kk `s`kk s`kk `kk kk k 00:43:06 ^choo `````s`kk 00:43:06 `````s`kk ````s`kk ```s`kk ``s`kk `s`kk s`kk `kk kk k 00:43:27 glabh. 00:43:41 ^cho unlambda 00:43:41 unlambdanlambdalambdaambdambdabdadaa 00:43:52 is unlambdanlambdalambdaambdambdabdadaa tc? 00:44:02 no, it's tcc 00:44:07 its neither 00:44:29 its turingcompleteuringcompleteringcompleteingcompletengcompletegcompleteompletempletepleteleteetetee 00:45:05 ^choo turing complete 00:45:06 turing complete uring complete ring complete ing complete ng complete g complete complete complete omplete mplete plete lete ete te e 00:45:21 also ^cho on a well-formed unlambda expression (longer than a single letter) cannot work i think 00:45:42 but maybe if you start with something that has more ` 00:45:50 oerjan: but what if the expression itself isn't well-wormed? 00:45:51 ... 00:45:55 well-wormed yes 00:46:01 that's what i said 00:46:08 no it wasn't 00:46:13 you weren't talking about worms 00:46:18 if you add more ` 00:46:34 yeah 00:46:36 hmm 00:46:43 i suggest fe worm a committee to investigate 00:47:04 ^cho ``s 00:47:04 ``s`ss 00:47:22 not quite 00:48:13 ^cho ``sk 00:48:13 ``sk`skskk 00:48:16 you can probably like, compile unlambda progs to unlaambdanlamb..., but somehow making it ignore the nlambdalambdaambda... part 00:48:21 ^cho ```sk 00:48:21 ```sk``sk`skskk 00:48:40 :P 00:48:41 ah well 00:48:53 ^cho ``ss`k 00:48:53 ``ss`k`ss`kss`ks`k`kk 00:49:03 ^cho ``s`k 00:49:03 ``s`k`s`ks`k`kk 00:49:14 done 00:50:30 so say you have something like ```sii``sii 00:50:52 could you somehow en-cho that so that it just runs that actual program 00:51:03 ^cho ```sii``sii 00:51:04 ```sii``sii``sii``sii`sii``siisii``siiii``siii``sii``sii`siisiiiii 00:51:21 toooo tired 00:52:16 well apart from those interpreters that ignore extra parts of the file (or treat it as program input) 00:52:37 ya 00:52:44 (which is easy since unlambda is LR(0)) 00:54:44 (ignoring whitespace) 00:54:53 ^cho baz 00:54:53 bazazz 00:54:55 (& comments) 00:55:06 err, why lr(0)? 00:55:27 oh and have anyone found actual real words produced by ^cho 00:55:36 oerjan: i'm looking 00:55:40 bazazz is one 00:56:05 because you don't need to look at next character to know how things parse so far 00:56:13 but it's not much of a word 00:56:17 bazazz is like "balls"? 00:56:21 "to have bazazz" 00:56:22 as is pazazz 00:56:31 pazazz actually has nearly 100K google hits 00:56:33 ^cho paz 00:56:33 pazazz 00:56:49 it's a clothing company 00:58:30 ^cho pos 00:58:30 pososs 00:58:33 ... 00:58:47 i was thinking posess, which was almost possess 00:58:55 so that was both pointless and a failure 01:02:48 yes 01:02:56 ^cho as 01:02:56 ass 01:03:03 ^cho ww 01:03:03 www 01:03:09 there's quite a few three-letter words which work 01:03:18 ^cho be 01:03:18 bee 01:03:19 well yeah 01:03:24 three and one 01:03:30 that's a bit trivial 01:03:45 unfortunately, i'm afraid bazazz and pazazz are the only ones in my dictionary otherwise 01:03:48 (that are full matches) 01:03:55 you actually searched? 01:03:58 sure 01:04:01 hmph this one has only pazazz 01:04:01 okay 01:04:13 well check 1234234344 too, just to be sure 01:04:21 ^cho hm 01:04:21 hmm 01:04:29 i checked '\(.\)\(.\)\1\2\2$' 01:04:32 ^cho hmmm 01:04:32 hmmmmmmmmm 01:04:37 ^cho hmmmmmmm 01:04:37 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 01:04:54 that includes everything relevant + some noise 01:05:13 oerjan: i checked those things for length of chain of 1 to 5 01:05:20 nothing 01:05:33 are there any cho's? 01:05:36 err 01:05:38 choo's 01:05:43 well there was AAAAAA 01:05:45 that's a bit harder to search 01:05:48 yeah, i got aaaaa too 01:06:03 ^cho BOOOO 01:06:03 BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 01:06:24 well not really harder, but if you're using regexps for this, it's prolly impossible 01:07:09 words such that every tail is also a word? 01:07:16 ah 01:07:21 put that way, it's quite simple 01:07:44 because that's equal to words such that the tail is also such a word 01:08:40 so just one lookup per word, and a flag for each 01:12:45 haha 01:12:47 searched 01:12:53 ^choo wrestable 01:12:53 wrestable restable estable stable table able ble le e 01:13:04 ble is a word? 01:13:06 no 01:13:10 err 01:13:10 yes 01:13:31 it's some abbreviation 01:13:35 and i cut off at 2 01:14:11 i can try without cutoff 01:14:19 wow cool 01:15:15 oooooh 01:15:18 ^choo suprising 01:15:18 suprising uprising prising rising ising sing ing ng g 01:15:23 very nice 01:16:02 what's suprising? 01:16:35 no idea! 01:16:49 considering i got this from a "spell checker word list"... 01:17:28 it's in this one too 01:17:43 it certainly doesn't seem real... 01:18:18 dictionary.com claims it doesn't exist 01:18:38 err and what's ising? 01:19:04 as does merriam-webster 01:19:12 is it what they make isinglass from? :) 01:19:13 dictionary.com says ising is a word (but shows the entry for vocalize, oddly) 01:19:33 Ising is a last name... 01:19:42 i can do a search on the some 150 dictionaries lingobot has, tomorrow 01:19:45 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:19:47 wikipedia alone has 226 typos of suprising 01:19:52 hehe 01:19:53 suprising is a last name too 01:19:54 not ising either 01:20:01 err 01:20:05 suprise is, i mean 01:20:06 ... 01:20:09 there's more than a million hits for suprising 01:20:11 on google 01:20:13 that doesn't exactly make suprising a word 01:20:14 xD 01:20:15 no 01:20:17 it doesn't 01:20:41 okay i'm officially too tired now. 01:20:47 see you tomorrow -> 01:20:54 well if we consider how many of those were using faulty linux dictionaries... 01:21:09 no wonder it is spreading 01:21:38 * oerjan should officially go to bed too 01:21:43 good night 01:21:59 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 01:53:49 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:23:05 -!- kwertii has joined. 03:07:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | And Prim is some wacky little thing.. 03:17:16 -!- immibis has joined. 04:19:05 ^cho Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 04:19:06 Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... 04:31:56 -!- ab5tract has joined. 04:48:01 ^cho Is this just an echo thing? 04:48:01 Is this just an echo thing?s this just an echo thing? this just an echo thing?this just an echo thing?his just an echo thing?is just an echo thing?s just an echo thing? just an echo thing?just an echo thing? ... 04:48:19 ^cho Not quite 04:48:19 Not quiteot quitet quite quitequiteuiteitetee 04:48:35 ^cho ababababa 04:48:35 ababababababababaababababababaababababaababaa 04:48:48 ^cho ab 04:48:48 abb 04:49:12 ^cho This is lame. 04:49:12 This is lame.his is lame.is is lame.s is lame. is lame.is lame.s lame. lame.lame.ame.me.e.. 04:53:03 ^cho fungot is a crazy woromboist 04:53:03 fungot is a crazy woromboistungot is a crazy woromboistngot is a crazy woromboistgot is a crazy woromboistot is a crazy woromboistt is a crazy woromboist is a crazy woromboistis a crazy woromboists a crazy w ... 04:53:09 awww 04:53:16 ^cho a 04:53:16 a 04:53:32 fungot doesnt respond to saying its own name :( 04:53:33 ab5tract: that's a ver absic interface to mod_lisp... 04:53:46 you're tellin me buddy 04:54:16 ^cho Üņìçôđé ŗūĺz 04:54:17 Üņìçôđé ŗūĺzœÅ†Ã¬Ã§Ã´Ä‘é ŗūĺzņìçôđé ŗūĺz†Ã¬Ã§Ã´Ä‘é ŗūĺzìçôđé ŗūĺz¬Ã§Ã´Ä‘é ŗūĺzçôđé ŗūĺz§Ã´Ä‘é ŗūĺzôđé ŗūĺz´Ä‘é ŗūĺzđé ŗūĺz‘é ŗūĺzé ŗūĺ ... 04:54:20 YAY 04:54:35 Epic failurz lawl 04:55:11 wooooo! 04:55:36 fungot should keep count 04:55:36 ab5tract: by ted fnord: fnord fnord tiksi fnord fnord 04:55:50 that wouldn't count 05:43:45 ^cho øô 05:43:45 øô¸Ã´Ã´´ 05:43:51 ^cho ø 05:43:51 ø¸ 05:44:14 fungot: not as impressive as you seem? 05:44:15 ab5tract: that's only a warning. 05:44:21 fungot: hahahaha 05:44:22 ab5tract: luxy i cant wait to see fahrenheit 911 when it comes to names 05:48:25 -!- BoB has joined. 05:48:53 -!- BoB has changed nick to Guest29504. 05:49:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:50:45 -!- moozilla has joined. 05:53:10 -!- Jiminy_Cricket has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:53:15 -!- Guest29504 has changed nick to Jiminy_Cricket. 05:58:18 -!- Guest29504 has joined. 05:58:20 -!- Jiminy_Cricket has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:58:26 -!- Guest29504 has changed nick to Jiminy_Cricket. 06:01:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:01:28 Hi 06:08:12 -!- Guest29504 has joined. 06:08:12 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:08:20 -!- Jiminy_Cricket has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:08:22 -!- Guest29504 has changed nick to Jiminy_Cricket. 06:14:55 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:14:56 unfortunately, everything he does is terminally uninteresting 06:14:57 *AHEM* 06:15:04 that was NOT funny 06:18:12 -!- Guest29504 has joined. 06:24:23 -!- Jiminy_Cricket has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:40:20 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:37:36 -!- kwertii has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:45:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:14:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:14:49 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:35:04 -!- ab5tract has quit. 08:42:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:43:01 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:49:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:50:08 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 08:50:50 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:50:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:07:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | so then I searched for a few people in the chat room. 09:09:48 -!- Guest29504 has changed nick to Jiminy_Cricket. 09:16:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:16:43 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:32:48 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 09:37:29 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:20:55 -!- metazilla has joined. 10:21:03 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:28:11 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:55:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 11:50:01 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:50:11 bitchanger -> bitch anger D: 12:14:14 asiekierka: unfortunately, everything he does is terminally uninteresting 12:14:16 [12:13] asiekierka: *AHEM* 12:14:18 [12:13] asiekierka: that was NOT funny 12:14:20 that's ok, it wasn't a joke. 12:28:14 Heh, the people from the local computer science students' club/association/thing sent this postcard from the annual Saint Petersburg train-trip: http://flickr.com/photos/oiva/2920226756/ 12:30:11 And it managed to get all the way back here to the computer science building; the full address would be "Konemiehentie 2, 02150 Espoo". Admittedly the crossword puzzle is _very_ simple (if you speak Finnish, that is), but it's still rather neat that they did deliver it at all. 12:30:37 Hm. Where is my ircnomic bot? 12:30:41 That is the question 12:31:28 I wouldn't be too surprised if it had included the postal number (the local post office is probably pretty used to receiving cards like that) but that one only has "Finland", which I guess means some sort of central post office person has had to puzzle out the correct address. 12:33:13 what's the last one+ 12:33:15 ? 12:33:38 oklopol: "hammas", I think. 12:33:49 (Teeth, for non-Finnish people.) 12:33:53 14:30:58 @Nailor: http://flickr.com/photos/oiva/2920226756/ 12:34:09 my uni's channels 12:34:12 *channel 12:34:20 That, and the earlier "ikkuna" (window) were the hardest ones. 12:34:26 Heh, it goes around and around. 12:34:27 well not the university's, the... what's the smaller thing :-) 12:34:45 did that originate from you? 12:34:58 oh, hammas, i was thinking huuli[s] 12:35:25 No; but I got the link from the person whose flicker account it is, so my copy was just a second-generation one. 12:35:36 Not that there seems to be much degradation in the URL. 12:36:02 i'm not sure what i'm meant to get about that card 12:36:03 :-d 12:36:05 *:-D 12:36:05 Or is it a first-generation copy when it's directly from the original? Not sure. 12:36:13 meanwhile 12:36:19 nomicbot seems to be dead 12:36:20 :-( 12:36:22 ehird: the address is given as a crossword puzzle 12:36:22 i cannot find it. 12:36:32 in a postcard 12:36:37 oklopol: haha, that is great 12:37:01 next up: NP-complet address calculation 12:37:07 *complete 12:37:13 The post office person hadn't actually filled the address in the crossword, though, just there on the empty address lines. 12:38:05 And the "kiinnostaa"/"ei kiinnosta" checkboxes ("interesting"/"not interesting") also went unmarked. I guess they have some sort of policy not to write in people's postcards. :p 12:38:26 *interested 12:38:47 np complete addresses would own 12:39:08 yes, except they would just return the card 12:39:30 "anyone knows them algos here?" "nah" "oki ima send this back" 12:39:36 well, uh, if i sent out a postcard addressed with a crossword i'd expect it to be returned 12:39:37 :-P 12:40:03 well, i can pretty much just read that without thinking, apart from the last clue 12:40:23 which wasn't really needed 12:40:43 Yes, as far as crossword puzzles go that was a really simple one. 12:40:51 It'd help if I knew finnish, of course. 12:41:12 but yeah, if i sent out anything remotely like that it'dd just be returned 12:41:14 all crossword puzzles with a "solution row" are trivial 12:41:22 It's just "cat" (the word 'miau' is the finnish version of 'meow'), "apple", "nose", "snail", "man", "window", "no", "tooth". 12:41:31 well, the puzzle part is trivial 12:42:05 the picture decrypting may not be 12:49:53 perhaps i should do some work on noprob today 12:50:04 i think i've finally wrapped my head around the probabilities 12:51:42 the implementation will, though, list the entire truth table all the time, because probabilities become a bit tricky otherwise, and i have no idea how to do problotures yet, because i'm not sure how to list the *whole* truth table *lazily* 13:22:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:22:11 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:33:04 "True if the given string or variable's value is lexicographically less (or greater, or equal) than the string on the right." 13:33:05 hm 13:33:16 would that imply case sensitive or case insensitive 13:33:27 * AnMaster curses bad docs 13:34:14 or doesn't it say? Hm 13:37:52 hrrm a test shows it is case sensitive 13:38:14 * AnMaster looks for an insensitive string compare in cmake... 13:40:32 You can always string(TOLOWER in out) them both. Not very pretty. 13:46:11 yes=1, no=0 13:46:13 ^bool 13:46:14 No. 13:46:40 fizzie, breaks since string may not be set 13:46:45 I'm trying to compare the build type 13:47:00 but other than that I already coded the something like that 13:47:15 * AnMaster tries to figure out how to handle " STRING no output variable specified" 13:47:21 also in needs to be ${in} 13:47:36 since string only takes a string, not a variable 13:47:41 at least in cmake 2.4 13:47:48 which is what I got here 13:48:24 hm quoting it too seems to work 13:49:19 s/got/have 13:50:07 :P 13:50:36 i've never understood why people keep making the same simple mistakes 13:50:57 the reason is probably they don't give a shit 13:51:04 but it's still confuzzling 13:51:15 well I try to, it is just due to bad habit 13:51:21 habits* (?) 13:52:03 bad habit is fine methinks. 13:52:14 but not the best way to put it 13:56:19 -!- ENKI-][ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:02:22 -!- ENKI-][ has joined. 14:17:25 hey ais523 14:18:08 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:18:18 hi ehird 14:18:56 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:31:47 -!- M0ny has joined. 14:31:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:32:25 plop 14:33:05 hi ais523 14:33:11 hi AnMaster 14:33:14 and hi M0ny 14:33:30 hi AnMaster and ais523 14:34:08 Hi-hat. 14:35:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:35:51 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:38:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:54:10 -!- Judofyr has joined. 14:59:30 hi all 14:59:53 * oerjan was going to list everyone's nicks there, but suddenly realized that was a bad idea 15:00:54 hi /names 15:01:53 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:02:52 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:07:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I hate how, no matter what concept of programming you follow, there's always a nasty corner :P. 15:08:07 clearly we need a concept of soft, fuzzy programming 15:18:51 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:18:56 Bo--oh well... Hello! 15:19:05 Hiiii 15:19:11 ehird, i hate you 15:19:11 the ho 15:19:57 asiekierka: joining, and then saying you hate ehird before he's even said anything? 15:20:03 Bye all 15:20:11 Nope 15:20:11 ais523: response to what he said in the log 15:20:13 yesd 15:20:15 yes* 15:20:15 basically 15:20:19 unfortunately, everything he does is terminally uninteresting 15:20:24 maybe you're right 15:20:25 ssure 15:20:27 ah, I remember that now 15:20:32 but it wasn't really funny 15:20:39 but different people have different ideas of which esoprograms are interesting 15:20:40 Also, i know how to use the tunes.org logs, if you didn't know 15:20:43 well, yes 15:20:46 but he said everything 15:20:49 not only esolangs 15:20:51 but everything 15:20:57 normally when I respond to logs I give some clue that that's what I'm doing 15:21:34 don't take too much offense, ehird doesn't really watch what he says, and he to hate things 15:21:46 *he tends to 15:22:10 +ul ((-)S:^):^ 15:22:11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...too much output! 15:22:41 how do you program unlambda? do you compile lc->ski->ul?` 15:22:51 that's the usual method 15:22:59 also, I interpret ul as referring to Underload, normally 15:23:04 what i'm asking is do you do that 15:23:10 err yes, i meant underload 15:23:19 with unlambda too :D 15:23:22 oh, Underload programming is pretty different 15:23:35 normally I program directly in the Underload, I have quite an idea of how it works by now 15:23:45 that's what i hoped 15:23:51 because i can't do it, it's pretty cool 15:23:57 i should try it 15:24:03 although I have an optimising ski compiler that can compile ``sii into :^, :^ is probably intuitively easier to understand 15:24:12 underload might be close to Joy than unlambda, maybe? 15:24:15 *closer 15:24:16 and there are tricks that work in Underload but not LC 15:24:18 oerjan: yes 15:24:42 for instance, my divide-by-10 code works by using the stack 15:24:53 and each stack element pops the 9 below it 15:25:03 and then executes the one below 15:25:24 I can't even think of a way to express that sort of thing in a non-concatenative lang, except by bundling a concatenative interpreter 15:25:58 Ok 15:25:59 i don't get how that works 15:26:00 I forgive ehird 15:26:03 but only this one time 15:26:05 :P 15:26:11 Anyway, I may write some other esolangs 15:26:15 or DOBELA_nano 15:26:22 which is DOBELA squeezed even more 15:26:29 Actually, DOBELA itself could be called DOBELA_mini 15:26:33 asiekierka: when he comes online, he will definitely give you another reason to hate him, it's his thing 15:26:33 since it was squeezed by me 15:26:39 asiekierka: you didn't notice my question whether DOBELA means anything in polish? 15:26:43 nope 15:26:46 and nope 15:26:49 it doesn't mean anything 15:26:56 +ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ 15:26:58 */*/**/***/*****/********/*************/*********************/**********************************/******************************************************* ...too much output! 15:26:59 It stands for DOt-Based Esoteric LAnguage, read the wiki entry 15:27:05 i did 15:27:25 but it could still have a meaningful acronym 15:27:36 But i like DOBELA 15:27:41 especially how it's pronounced 15:27:42 :) 15:27:42 i wonder if you could make something like a boolean circuit out of that 15:27:47 i'm not complaining 15:27:56 oklopol: of what? 15:28:11 it's an african name, if google speaks truely 15:28:22 asiekierka: of DOBELA, presumably 15:28:32 yeah, of dobela 15:28:33 quite possibly 15:28:41 does DOBELA have any way to remove # signs once they've been created? 15:28:47 Nope 15:28:48 if it doesn't, control flow might be quite hard 15:28:54 But it has other control flow ways 15:28:55 like | 15:28:58 ais523: computation can only be done using | afaik 15:28:59 ah, ok 15:29:05 it has a state 15:29:13 Also, you can stop the generator thing 15:29:45 asiekierka: it's much easier to program with locals than globals, if you've only got globals like the generator then proving TCness is much harder, whether it's TC or not 15:30:12 +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~:^):^ 15:30:29 ais523: locals and globals in what sense? 15:30:34 ais523: Uh, yes, i could make it that if a generator is hit north, it changes it's state (on/off) and when hit south, it's type (zeros/ones) 15:30:37 oklopol: things local to part of a program 15:30:38 No new commands 15:30:39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 8 ...too much output! 15:30:40 local control 15:30:47 the problem is that controlling generators is a global thing 15:30:48 But setting the global one overrides everything 15:30:57 So you can control the local one 15:31:00 asiekierka: i noticed some holes in the spec, say what happens with multi-dot collisions 15:31:02 and the global ones 15:31:07 Hm, multi-dot? 15:31:08 as in .. 15:31:12 .. 15:31:13 huh? 15:31:18 3 or more dots colliding 15:31:19 ais523: oh i didn't notice anything global 15:31:24 oh 15:31:26 generator control is 15:31:29 | does *that*? 15:31:35 nope 15:31:41 | can be used as a reflector 15:31:43 oh, and it's local 15:31:53 oh 15:31:58 but i'll set the generators to be local too, just in case 15:32:05 ^ 15:32:10 well that's just evil :D 15:32:14 well 15:32:15 local 15:32:17 but global if you want 15:32:22 You can either use local only 15:32:22 and also for collisions in other directions than horizontal 15:32:23 global only 15:32:24 or both 15:32:28 global overrides local 15:32:31 in generators 15:32:39 In vertical, pretty much the same happens 15:32:40 +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^:*( )S~:^):^ 15:32:43 but east=south 15:32:44 west=north 15:32:45 :) 15:33:08 And multi-dot collisions? Pretty much it's a very rare exception 15:33:11 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ...too much output! 15:33:20 But it's possible that one dot collides with a dot that collides with another dot 15:33:21 ugh, it wasn't meant to do that 15:33:26 asiekierka: the problem is, if you control local things with global switches, it's hard to get sensible computation, as you cannot really be modular when all parts of your program are changing the same global state for their own purposes 15:33:38 see 15:33:44 you can control local things with both now 15:33:50 But global overrides local IF YOU USE IT 15:33:52 you can use local 15:33:53 global 15:33:58 or both, overriding all when needed 15:34:05 +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:*)*( )S~:^):^ 15:34:20 spotted the bug, I was doing x squared rather than x times 2 15:34:21 Wall/dot collisions are weird, but that was the main point of dobela 15:34:32 asiekierka: how do you do a local change? 15:34:36 As in 15:34:38 well 15:34:40 a local change? 15:34:42 Not YET written 15:34:44 give me time 15:34:44 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 ...too much memory used! 15:34:50 First we must resolve one more thing 15:34:58 also i don't see what difference it makes whether dots are 1 or 0 really 15:34:58 Multi-dot collisions 15:34:58 yay, powers of 2 15:35:02 ais523: you own 15:35:04 as in, dot collides with a dot that collides with a dot 15:35:11 i think. i can't really tell how hard that is :P 15:35:16 oklopol: not really, multiplication's easy in Underload, it's easier than addition anyway 15:35:19 Then we scan the board from north-west to south-east, left-right, up-down 15:35:28 Or rather 15:35:30 not as easy as exponentiation though 15:35:35 ais523: each me a bit, will ya? 15:35:36 First the topleftmost dot's collision is done 15:35:40 then the second topleftmost 15:35:40 +ul (:::::) 15:35:41 and so on 15:35:45 until all are processed 15:35:45 is this like, 5? 15:35:46 Yay 15:35:50 *teach 15:35:53 everything is not resolved 15:35:57 oklopol: 5 would be (::::****) 15:36:03 ah 15:36:08 +ul (::::****)(x)~^S 15:36:08 xxxxx 15:36:15 oklopol: 0 and 1 difference is mainly output, and rotation direction 15:36:17 (x)~^S is just code to output a number in unary 15:36:26 As generators output every other cycle 15:36:38 basically, in the number scheme I normally use, 0 is !() 15:36:38 ais523: yeah i get that 15:36:40 1 is the null string 15:36:43 You could use some tricks to output every 4th cycle north, and every 4th south 15:36:47 :) 15:36:49 :* is 2, ::** is 3, :::*** is 4, and so on 15:36:56 ! is pop? 15:36:59 yes 15:37:05 basically, 0 makes no copies of its argument 15:37:10 let me try to make addition 15:37:11 by popping it and replacing it with a null string 15:37:13 1 makes one copy 15:37:16 2 makes two copies 15:37:18 and so on 15:37:27 hmm, concatenation 15:37:29 is basically 15:37:33 exponentiation? 15:37:40 David DOBELA was a coach once 15:37:43 but oh well 15:37:47 I should do something, right 15:38:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 15:38:13 Oh 15:38:21 A comparison command is there 15:38:24 say you have numbers a and b, (x)(a)^(b)^ will do ((x*a)*b), except that's multiplication 15:38:26 and it's... yes, you guessed it, #! 15:38:29 :D 15:38:57 oklopol: yes, concatenation is exponeniation 15:38:59 asiekierka: i guessed that 15:39:09 ais523: but but, i don't see why :o 15:39:12 oklopol: ok 15:39:17 no, wait 15:39:21 well, no 15:39:23 * is multiplication 15:39:26 ^ is exponentiation 15:39:31 if you've concatenated things 15:39:34 which concatenation does depends on where the parens ar 15:39:35 *are 15:40:21 Argh, the esolang wiki crashed for me 15:40:34 asiekierka: try refreshing, if it still doesn't work there's a problem 15:40:45 works for me 15:40:51 oklopol: well, 2 means "make 2 copies", and 3 means "make 3 copies" 15:40:56 ais523: so (::::****:::***) would be 64? 15:41:04 so if you do 2 then 3, you make 2 copies of the top of the stack, then 3 copies of the top of that 15:41:13 and no, (::::***:::***) is 5*4 is 20 15:41:23 so concatenation is multiplication 15:41:25 whereas (::::***):::*** is 5^4 which is 625 15:41:29 and yes 15:41:38 ah, okay *now* i get it 15:41:47 oh my god?!? 15:41:50 +ul (::::****:::***)(x)~^S 15:41:51 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 15:41:56 +ul (::::****):::***(x)~^S 15:41:57 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 15:41:59 uhh 15:42:01 does this actually make * multiplication and ^ exponentiation? 15:42:04 yes, it does 15:42:06 ok 15:42:07 it worked 15:42:08 oh my god 15:42:14 why do you think I chose those symbols? 15:42:21 ais523: that's incredibly awesome 15:42:50 * ais523 notes that there's a bug in thutubot's ...too much output! message 15:43:00 in that sometimes it ends up clipped off because there's too much output 15:43:11 heh 15:43:27 anyway, to increment a number you put : at the start and * at the end 15:43:31 so (:)~*(*)* 15:43:38 yeah i see 15:43:45 addition is done like that too? 15:43:47 and to add two numbers, you increment the first a number of times equal to the second 15:43:53 ((:)~*(*)*)~^ 15:44:02 ((:)~*(*)*)~^^ 15:44:02 I mean 15:44:12 can't say i get that 15:44:26 well, say you have 3 beneath 5 on the stack 15:44:30 say i have 15:44:34 and you do ((:)~*(*)*)~^^ 15:44:43 you're pushing the code for increment on the stack 15:44:47 then swapping it below the 5 15:44:55 evalling the 5 with ^ makes 5 copies of increment 15:45:06 then evalling the 5 copies of increment with ^ adds 5 to the number below 15:45:13 so you end up with 8 on the stack 15:46:11 that's clever 15:46:18 very clever 15:46:35 that's the most common way to loop a fixed number of times in Underload, too 15:46:50 anything you could give me as homework? i wanna try to do something simple 15:47:07 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/DOBELA - Some fixes 15:47:10 docs v10 done 15:47:26 try to write an infinite loop which outputs something each time round the loop, that's nice and simple 15:47:27 (wow, i actually did 10 revisions? Nope, 9, but one was a double-version fix since it changed a little too much) 15:48:04 hmm... probably the Ackermann function is simple to write in Underload too, I've never tried though 15:48:36 I wonder if you can calculate PI in underload... hmm... 15:49:03 ais523: sounds simple, /me tries 15:49:14 xkcd omg 15:49:33 +ul (:aSS):aSS 15:49:33 (:aSS):aSS 15:49:36 was that the quine 15:49:38 yeah 15:49:39 okay 15:50:10 ah, i think i see the way to do recursion 15:50:29 I generally do recursion by giving the function to itself as its first argument 15:50:30 just like you'd do it in python without globals, just give the lambda itself as param 15:50:31 using :^ 15:50:33 :^ 15:50:35 yes 15:50:45 that's exactly what i was going to say, and said 15:51:22 I wonder if DOBELA is low-level, high-level or middle-level 15:51:28 low, I think 15:51:36 +ul (:xS^):^ 15:51:43 :P 15:51:43 oklopol: x isn't a real command 15:51:46 +ul (:(x)S^):^ 15:51:47 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 15:51:52 wow, did i do it 15:51:52 I think low-level too 15:52:00 It's very similarly built to Circute 15:52:02 but not inspired by 15:52:07 and Circute is also low-level 15:52:08 as is BF 15:52:09 so 15:52:14 ais523: look no hands!! 15:52:16 oklopol: that looks right, yes 15:52:26 maybe I should say "look, no lambdas!" 15:52:36 but Underload is only a functional lang sometimes 15:52:48 programming in it normally ends up functionallish in practice, though 15:52:53 well i wasn't really thinking functionally there 15:52:54 asiekierka: the only usable infinite memory is the FIFO, right? so it might need to be programmed like a tag system 15:52:57 well, no 15:53:13 that's an imperative Underload program, if you just take (...:^):^ as meaning "infinite while loop" 15:53:29 oerjan: ah, tag system would work even better than Minsky machine 15:53:33 I approve of that idea 15:53:45 probably either regular tag or cyclic tag would work 15:53:48 not sure which would be easier 15:54:44 Hmm, so, do you think DOBELA is TC now 15:54:46 is it not 15:54:56 what does | do again? 15:55:05 If hit south, makes everything moving west/east go down, 15:55:05 if hit north, makes everything moving west/east go up. 15:55:19 asiekierka: it's at least pretty close 15:55:34 I think that's enough, probably 15:55:44 you could set up a cyclic tag input without problem, I think 15:55:53 use a large vertical loop 15:56:03 as in, a loop which is up and down next to each other 15:56:20 at the bottom, you use # to route 0 and 1 in different directions, and make them hit the top or bottom of a | appropriately 15:56:27 this doesn't affect the loop as it's vertical 15:56:42 and you can easily use a generator to clone the original output, making a loop that way 15:56:48 then you have a separate loop via the global FIFO 15:57:04 that is the cyclic tag system's working string 15:57:05 ok, DOBELA has more rules 15:57:14 no wait 15:57:17 one more fix 15:57:31 so yes, TC I think, the only possible reason that wouldn't work is due to it being impossible to set up the timing correctly, and I don't think that's the case 15:57:39 every other cycle 15:57:51 which can be every 4th cycle if you don't care about the dot content 15:57:55 and need a clock 15:57:56 as in 15:57:59 btw, a fun fact about noprob: even though you can write the program line by line, so that every line has one specific purpose, like setting a variable to 1%7 (my high precedence operator for division in notation), you can actually take all the triples in the program, and just scramble them anyway you like 15:58:05 except for the problotures 15:58:10 every 4th cycle left, every 4th cycle starting from the 2nd one right 15:58:14 but you can scramble them internally too 15:58:32 ok 15:58:40 So the specs are possibly done 15:59:17 this is a trivial consequence of the fact it's basically just 3-sat, of course, but it's still quite interesting how the execution will be sequential no matter what order you type things in 15:59:30 So it's not TC maybe, but at least very, VERY close 15:59:32 like, 99% TC 15:59:35 :D 15:59:41 but 1%! 15:59:44 The 1% is IMPORTANT-ish 15:59:53 The board size is theoretically infinite 15:59:55 as is the FIFO 15:59:58 yeah, you should add a dash more computation 16:00:08 You can do an IF by # 16:00:12 you can control flow by | 16:00:20 add a counter, and a command to increment it, that probably gives us about a percent more 16:00:34 you're operating on BITS 16:00:40 But yes 16:00:44 asiekierka: the problem with the board size is i don't think you have any way to grow the board contents indefinitely in a way that you can use 16:01:00 fixing 16:01:25 well 16:01:27 how to write it 16:01:29 any ideas 16:01:43 you don't need that for making a tag system though 16:01:54 the FIFO is enough 16:01:56 and is a tag system enough for TC-ness? 16:02:00 yes 16:02:08 yaay 16:02:20 So can we assume it's 100% TC, 99% TC, or not TC at all 16:02:28 I think it's 100% TC 16:02:30 tag systems are enough 16:02:32 after all 16:02:32 I also think that 16:02:47 The only thing you can't do are loops 16:02:53 Which i'll fix by adding the 10th command 16:02:54 also 16:03:01 how many commands can you have max for a turing tarpit? 16:03:10 no more than necessary 16:03:14 no wait, 11th 16:03:15 but wait 16:03:19 I don't need any more 16:03:24 then 16:03:25 but in practice, tarpits seem to work out at about 8 or 9 16:03:30 My works out at 10 16:03:36 and can do pretty much computation 16:03:46 (noprob has two things) 16:03:54 (what's noprob?) 16:03:56 (0 operators) 16:04:05 noprob is a language 16:04:19 My has already everything crammed in 16:04:23 So it has every feature needed 16:04:24 3-sat solving language, which i would very much like to be coding right now. 16:04:32 asiekierka: I don't really think of DOBELA as a tarpit 16:04:33 Also, yes, a loop is a problem 16:04:39 compare it to Black, for instance, which only has 1 command 16:04:41 yet I think it's TC 16:05:05 But it's based on AnMaster's idea. I created my wall/dot idea, he added some ideas, then went on to work on Proton 16:05:20 so AnMaster helped me SORT OF 16:05:50 having AnMaster around doesn't automatically make things tarpits :P 16:05:56 yeah 16:05:59 quite the opposite, i'd wager 16:05:59 i'm not talking about it anymore 16:06:07 AnMaster proposed some physics stuff 16:06:11 like the collisions 16:06:17 without him, collisions would be vastly different 16:08:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:08:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:10:23 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:10:52 So, well, is my language at least a little interesting 16:11:32 pseudo physics, since the model isn't accurate ;P 16:11:33 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:11:54 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:12:08 Did someone say physics? 16:12:15 So, is my language at least a little interesting? - if you didn't hear 16:12:25 What is your language 16:12:41 DOBELA 16:12:51 Let's see that 16:12:59 i think not that much 16:13:02 but it may be 16:14:33 How can you rotate a dot? 16:14:41 Slereah_: # 16:14:58 I mean, conceptually 16:15:10 I find it a weird thing to say 16:16:36 Slereah_: momentum, of course. duh. 16:16:55 Oh. 16:17:01 I was thinking rotating on itself 16:17:20 "and you call yourself a physicist" 16:17:37 Well, when something hits a wall, it won't rotate 90° 16:17:37 It will rotate 180° 16:17:59 clearly this world has different symmetries :D 16:18:01 Unless you do something other than horizontal/vertical 16:18:16 It's not a symetry problem 16:18:21 It's conservation of momentum 16:18:45 i'm thinking noether's theorem here 16:19:43 * oerjan makes a note: physics trolling, Slereah_. linguistics trolling, psygnisfive. 16:21:03 Nope 16:21:12 it'll rotate 90s a wall, it won't rotate 90° 16:21:13 It will rotate 180° 16:21:14 well 16:21:15 wrong paste 16:21:19 it'll rotate 90 degrees i mean 16:21:24 if you hit a wall 16:21:32 Check Cat (commented) to see how it works 16:22:06 Also, who said this world has... PHYSICS!? 16:22:08 It's just a simple 2D world 16:23:09 It doesn't need PHYSICS 16:25:15 maybe walls are actually weird magnetic... things 16:25:29 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:26:34 Well, nope 16:26:39 We can just say dots are "living beings" 16:26:43 or wait 16:26:43 no 16:26:43 robots 16:26:48 Very basic robots though 16:26:56 that consist of a microprocessor, a lamp, and wheels 16:27:00 They move with wheels 16:27:04 hm and dots are either electrons or positrons. 16:27:10 well 16:27:10 maybe 16:27:28 but those things that convert between matter and antimatter then are a bit scary 16:27:38 what? = 16:27:41 is it "="? 16:27:53 Also, don't try to explain it 16:28:05 * oerjan checks 16:28:13 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:28:23 [17:17:53] clearly this world has different symmetries :D 16:28:23 [17:17:53] Unless you do something other than horizontal/vertical 16:28:23 [17:18:09] It's not a symetry problem 16:28:23 [17:18:14] It's conservation of momentum 16:28:23 [17:18:34] Which is a sort of symetry, but well 16:28:25 [17:18:39] * Disconnected 16:28:27 >:V 16:28:30 * oerjan adds: just about any trolling, asiekierka. 16:28:37 ouch 16:28:45 Durn internet 16:29:04 or maybe they just have a lot of sidespin 16:29:10 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:29:14 *oerjan adds: just about any trolling, asiekierka. 16:29:14 what 16:29:16 * asiekierka notes: calling everyone a troller, oerjan. 16:29:20 wat 16:29:34 asiekierka: no no, a victim for _my_ trolling. sheesh. 16:29:41 oh 16:29:42 i see 16:29:47 But feel free to troll me 16:29:53 I'll rickroll you then 16:29:54 just to be fair 16:29:57 ok 16:29:59 or not 16:30:24 But i'll try to cook up an eXplanation 16:30:44 Slereah_: didn't get that last one. you may wish to check tunes as a lot was said 16:30:44 asiekierka : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Argh/1221655091974.jpg 16:30:48 Is that trolly enough? :o 16:31:11 I'll check as soon as my FUCKING INTERNET WORKS >:V 16:31:26 asiekierka: also, yes = 16:32:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:32:04 [17:30:40] Is that trolly enough? :o 16:32:05 [17:31:02] I'll check as soon as my FUCKING INTERNET WORKS >:V 16:32:07 [17:31:29] * Disconnected* 16:32:09 I rage. 16:32:20 asiekierka: just as long as it doesn't involve smurfs. FOR MERCY'S SAKE, NO SMURFS 16:32:34 Slereah_: we got that 16:32:52 Finally. 16:32:53 Basically, we can call this 2D world a "processing being". 16:32:53 Dots are "data holders", they hold data and move it based on instructions. Walls are instructions for dots. An input outputter is connected to a wire transmitting data. 16:32:53 Outputting things are also connected to a wire, they transmit data. Flippers change the data dots hold. Generators are weird, they materialize dots. 16:32:53 The west/east control flower is an instruction holder. The FIFO controller is connected to a wire, and this manages the "RAM". 16:33:28 Oh right 16:33:36 In the Wikipedia dump I got for fungot-teaching, there are 2385413 talk pages, containing a total of 4820550212 characters of Wiki-markup. 16:33:37 fizzie: i think java's nice. not innovative, but nice idea 16:33:45 There's a generic controller too, controlling the FIFO and generators. It's also connected to a wire 16:33:48 * oerjan notes that his reverse psychology failed. 16:33:52 So 4 wires out of the "processor" 16:34:07 fungot: Do you want me to reimplement you with Java, huh? Wouldn't that be pointless? 16:34:08 fizzie: anyway using y is not something i have thought about a cons of two lists 16:34:13 Fffinally 16:34:50 asiekierka: wires are _so_ last century 16:35:13 But this is the processor of a motherboard, the code 16:35:15 the RAM is the fifo 16:35:26 And the controller is connected to... something 16:35:32 But this is my explanation 16:43:56 omg, my net slowed down a lot 16:51:52 hmm 16:52:10 I'm wondering whether to change something in DOBELA 16:52:14 keeping it at 10 commands or less 16:52:42 -!- Slereah- has joined. 16:52:48 So... much... rage... 16:52:55 D:< 16:52:58 where? 16:53:09 Uh 16:53:17 Slereah, Slereah- and Slereah_: BATTLE TIME! 16:54:07 NOTE: when fighting your own clone, make sure it's not really yourself from the past. that could be messy. 16:54:37 also, if it's yourself from the future, make sure not to lose 16:55:18 whoa whoa whoa 16:55:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:55:20 trolling? 16:55:23 i dont troll 16:55:25 i enlighten 16:55:27 kthxbai 16:55:27 I can troll 16:55:33 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:55:38 asiekierka can attest to that! 16:55:39 slereah: cute kid. who is he 16:55:43 Ok 16:55:45 Well 16:55:54 Slereah, then Slereah_, then Slereah- 16:56:03 So actually, you can't fight anyone 16:56:04 psygnisfive: sheesh, you too? WHY MUST EVERYONE MUSINDERSTAND ME! 16:56:08 brb, will try to reset my `net 16:56:09 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 16:56:33 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:56:36 ais523: it has tripped up other esolangers before, such as David Morgan-Mar 16:57:02 lost the game 16:57:43 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:57:47 argh 16:57:50 now it works even worse 16:58:00 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:58:06 worser and worser 16:59:14 -!- asiekierka has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:59:18 -!- asiekiekka has joined. 16:59:22 Ok 17:00:00 the worsester of them all! 17:00:04 hi 17:00:08 oh wait 17:00:10 -!- asiekiekka has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:00:29 and here i thought you were bruising up on your finnish 17:00:40 Brb 17:01:48 *brushing 17:14:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:31:01 oerjan: Don't you mean "The Worcestershire of them all!" 17:32:00 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:32:01 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:32:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:32:06 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:33:49 oerjan: i understood you. 17:35:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:40:56 -!- thutubot has joined. 17:41:03 -!- ais523_|direct has joined. 17:41:09 wb thutubot 17:41:13 +ul (:aSS):aSS 17:41:13 (:aSS):aSS 17:41:23 Heh. 17:41:25 Ass. 17:41:38 it's not meant to be a rude joke 17:42:01 That's what they all say 17:42:06 ^ul (:aSS):aSS 17:42:08 (:aSS):aSS 17:42:11 Yeah, but when I think of Underload 17:42:13 I think of asses. 17:42:14 a originally comes from Lisp car, but the connection is so tortuous and unusual that it's unlikely to be obvious to people 17:43:06 Underload: puts the ass back into (:aSS):aSS. 17:43:12 * ais523_|direct thinks that maybe ehird shouldn't reboot servers arbitrarily without warning the other people using them... 17:43:37 oklopol: at least there is one... 17:44:28 GregorR: i think advertising Worcester sauce has got to be a challenge 17:45:24 ais523_|direct: your intuition about 100% probabilities was perhaps right 17:45:30 -!- Corun has joined. 17:45:37 .A = .B ^ C 17:45:59 i have no idea why that should set C to true with 100% probability 17:46:10 but it should, so that the operation would be symmetric 17:46:36 because A = .B ^ 1 will set A to 1%2 17:46:45 .A = .B ^ C should set C to 1 17:47:09 (.A and those are variables that are always true with 1%2 probability) 17:47:20 (1%2 being simply 50%) 17:48:01 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:48:32 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:49:45 A = .B ^ 1 will clearly do A = 1%2, because the truth table's true entries, with the constraint that C is true, are A=0,B=0,C=1; A=1,B=1,C=1, so A is equivalent to .B 17:49:57 which will just mean A = 1%2, after .B goes out of scope 17:50:25 but, i'm not actually sure that *is* a symmetric relation, well, actually i'm pretty sure it isn't. 17:51:56 so, basically, i'm not sure there's any way to "decrement" a variable, if we're representing number n as 1%2^n 17:52:12 just a way to add them together 17:52:46 it seems i still have some trouble seen how all this satting even works with probabilities 17:53:09 perhaps i should just try evaluating them, and see whether the whole operation even *makes sense* 17:53:17 because clearly my intuition fails me here 17:54:08 more generally, A = B ^ C, where B and C are known, multiplies together the probabilities of B and C, and makes A that; clear from both the semantics of probabilities, and the truth table 17:54:34 issue is this is not reversible, for some reason oerjan can probably tell me if i highlight him 17:54:48 * oerjan has been reading 17:54:55 i see 17:54:59 do you get my point at all? 17:55:18 i don't understand the basics 17:55:37 what exactly? 17:55:37 oklopol: the problem is that if something has less than 100% probability, there's nothing you can OR it with to make 100% except 1 17:55:50 and if you do that it doesn't depend on the initial variable 17:56:10 ais523_|direct: yeah but you don't have to just evaluate boolean expressions 17:56:10 detecting if something had exactly 50% probability would work I think, except that that really makes no obvious sense as an operation 17:56:16 oh, yes 17:56:25 you can reverse-assign, as in INTERCAL? 17:56:33 * oerjan assumes ais523_|direct understands this better than him 17:56:39 SAT is about "making the expression true" by making anything anything that hasn't been initialized yet 17:56:44 also, bus -> 17:57:09 or maybe not 17:57:12 btw, ais523_|direct is the account you /query me on if you don't want ehird to be able to spy 17:57:26 normally I go via ehird's bouncer, but it's down atm 17:58:31 so, intuitively, it seems that because A = B ^ C, where we don't know A, makes A the product of B and C, you'd think if you do A = B ^ C, where you don't know C, C would be made something that, when multiplied by B, becomes A 17:58:37 ais523_|direct: yes i'm aware of that 17:59:11 oklopol, ais523_|direct, oerjan: What are you talking about? I was busy for a while 17:59:16 asiekierka: noprob 17:59:24 oklopol: i am somewhat dubious on this, doesn't this assume that B and C are independent? 17:59:30 oklopol: that's what a reverse assignment is in INTERCAL 17:59:33 oerjan: yes, but they are 17:59:38 oerjan: I think noprob assumes that too 18:00:03 oerjan: all .X's are independent, and 0.5 initially 18:00:17 if i'm considering something a value, i'm also assuming it's independent of the things i'm doing calculations with 18:00:21 if there was another equation involving both of them, and some fourth variable... 18:00:40 argh 18:00:49 that's not what i meant 18:00:52 oerjan: what's your point? i mean, in this case, there *isn't* 18:00:58 ok then 18:00:59 Show me noprob specs, please 18:01:00 i'm sure you have a point, i just don't get it 18:01:29 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:01:31 asiekierka: they don't exist yet 18:03:05 And what's noprob about? 18:03:10 Also, i make DOBELA's talk page 18:03:21 Maybe you'll comment on something? 18:03:58 the problem is roughly that A = B ^ C, where C isn't set, doesn't find some value of C that when multiplied by B becomes A, because we're not actually doing multiplication, it's just the and happens to perform it for independent variables 18:04:05 there are other ways to satisfy that. 18:05:02 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:05:10 asiekierka: noprob is about 3-sat 18:05:18 but i'm talking about the wimpmode here 18:05:35 Hm. If i knew what 3-sat is, i MAY have found it interesting 18:05:36 the wimpmode is about satisfying boolean expressions with probabilities 18:05:46 #3-sat, probably 18:06:01 yes 18:06:22 good point, we should continue the conversation there 18:06:41 Added DOBELA to the Language list 18:07:58 umm... 18:08:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:08:21 hm? 18:08:50 asiekierka: just thinking out loud. 18:09:12 oklopol: er wait 18:09:25 that was _not_ meant to be a channel name 18:09:30 Also, why can't i join you? 18:09:32 oerjan: i know, it was a joke. 18:10:06 i remember your teachings. 18:10:43 oerjan: but, what was your point about the independence? 18:10:50 oerjan: Buy Worshr... Worchrshrshr ... buy the sauce you can't pronounce! (Clip of bottle slammed on a table) 18:11:12 I wonder if 0 and ENTER count as 2 commands 18:11:13 wooster sauce 18:11:14 or as just 1 18:11:58 oklopol: i thought you were assuming you could use ^ for multiplication even if they weren't. but i see you have thought about it. 18:12:15 oerjan: oh i see. 18:12:25 well yeah i'm just considering the simple case where they are independent 18:12:31 Oklopol: Can you give out Underload lessons for me, too? 18:12:36 i'm a bit familiar with the syntax 18:12:39 but, uh, nothing to do yet 18:12:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:13:05 asiekierka: it was ais523_|direct who showed *me* things about unlambda, not the other way 18:13:06 around 18:13:07 -!- ehird has joined. 18:13:23 * oerjan swats oklopol ----### 18:13:32 underload is _not_ unlambda 18:13:37 ... 18:13:44 -!- ais523_|direct has left (?). 18:13:45 why do i keep doing that 18:13:46 :| 18:13:55 WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES 18:14:02 WHAT A BUNCH OF STINKING IDIOTS 18:14:11 BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY THINK IN TWO-LETTER WORDS 18:14:19 OBVIOUSLY 18:14:22 rubbish pants 18:14:24 oklopol: I don't use unlambda, so well, duh 18:14:34 BECAUSE THEY WEAR CAPES 18:14:36 YOU RUINED MY RHYME 18:14:38 ASSHOLE 18:14:40 GO DIE >:( 18:14:42 ASIEKIERKA: PLEASE USE CAPS IN FUTURE 18:14:47 oerjan: when they are *not* independent, it's more complicated, of course, but getting something trivial like this to work might be helpful before that. 18:15:02 asiekierka: i meant underload. 18:15:07 ok 18:15:07 ...was it correct now? 18:15:17 OKAY, EHIRD, BUT EVERY WORD AFTER THIS IN CAPS IS MADE BY A CRYBABY AND SUCKS 18:15:20 as you can see now 18:15:25 oklopol: the quantum collapsed in the right direction this time 18:15:31 i meant 18:15:42 every sentence 18:15:42 And so 18:15:42 asiekierka: YOU'RE MEAN 18:15:42 . 18:15:46 now we can't use caps 18:15:46 asiekierka: rules only take effect if they're in the topic 18:15:47 you know that. 18:15:51 Uh 18:15:52 hahahahah 18:15:56 And so 18:15:58 you're a crybaby 18:15:59 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I hate how, no matter what concept of programming you follow, there's always a nasty corner :P | you can't use caps. 18:15:59 and suck 18:16:04 optbot! 18:16:04 but i said every word 18:16:09 where is optbot 18:16:11 muahahaha 18:16:17 you're PWNED 18:16:18 optbot, why hast thou forsaken us! 18:16:19 ehird: you have to restart it manually 18:16:22 ais523: yea :P 18:16:27 -!- optbot has joined. 18:16:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | with the most significant bit of the result being the AND of the most and least significant bits. 18:16:32 i hate you 18:16:40 that's about intercal 18:16:42 neither optbot nor thutubot is in the startup scripts 18:16:42 ais523: that's the idea 18:16:43 * oklopol knows 18:16:47 oklopol: yes, and I said it, almost certainly 18:16:47 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | with the most significant bit of the result being the AND of the most and least significant bits | type in caps or die | who changes the topic is a crybaby, except asiekierka. 18:16:53 optbot! 18:16:53 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The definition for obscenity is fairly loose.. 18:17:01 ehird! 18:17:12 ok, so 18:17:15 optbot is a baby, technically, as are most bots 18:17:15 oklopol: DDoS Condition detected! 18:17:21 :D 18:17:26 ais523? 18:17:32 but a CRYBABY, though 18:17:36 asiekierka: yes? 18:17:40 optbot: you're a crybaby now, are you happy 18:17:40 asiekierka: every argument to EVERYTHING is a thunk 18:18:07 ais523: Could you please teach me underload? I know the commands, how to output text but not anything else 18:18:12 haskell haskell haskell 18:18:21 there's a lot of demand for learning underload atm, it seems 18:18:26 asiekierka: do you know how to do an infinite loop 18:18:31 maybe I should get oklopol to teach you that 18:18:35 (:^):^ 18:18:42 do you know why that works? 18:18:43 or (:*^):*^ 18:18:44 Yes 18:18:49 because it duplicates :^ 18:18:51 ais523: but he'll just ask asiekierka to ask you, and then... oh no 18:18:51 then it runs it 18:18:54 which duplicates :^ 18:18:57 which runs it 18:18:57 etc 18:18:57 etc 18:18:59 yes 18:19:04 what about a finite loop? 18:19:11 how would you print 64 copies of x, for instance? 18:19:26 Hmm, i don't know lambda/underload calculations yet 18:19:41 +ul ((x)S):*:*:*:*:*:*^ 18:19:41 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 18:19:46 oh, i see 18:19:52 (::::****):* ((x)S) ^ 18:19:56 (::::****):* ((x)S) ~^ 18:20:01 +ul (::::****):* ((x)S) ~^ 18:20:02 +ul (::::****):* ((x)S) ~^ 18:20:06 +ul (::::****):*((x)S)~^ 18:20:14 augh 18:20:15 +ul (::::****):*((x)S)~^^ 18:20:15 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 18:20:17 oh 18:20:18 wait 18:20:20 missing a trailing ^ 18:20:29 Ok 18:20:33 and you aren't allowed whitespace in Underload, probably I should change that at some point though 18:20:33 so, what do i need to learn 18:20:33 umm 18:20:38 going off for a second 18:20:38 why did i need that 18:20:45 oh, because just applying the number 18:20:48 doesn't actually print 18:20:53 just makes the code 18:20:54 to print 18:20:55 no, it just gives lots of copies of the code to print 18:21:03 yes, okay, right 18:21:03 then you need a second ^ to actually run it 18:21:12 +ul (Not even here?)S 18:21:12 Not even here? 18:21:23 oerjan: that isn't applying a number 18:21:32 Oki, i'm back 18:21:36 +ul ((Not even here?)S)(:*)^ 18:21:37 i may go off for a sec again too 18:21:40 is applying a number 18:21:43 and as you can see nothing happened 18:21:43 ais523: he meant whitespace 18:21:46 +ul ((Not even here?)S)(:*)^^ 18:21:46 Not even here?Not even here? 18:21:48 oerjan that is 18:21:57 oh, you're allowed whitespace if you don't try to run it 18:22:01 just not as a command 18:22:07 +ul (:*(Not even here?)S^)(:*)*:*^ 18:22:07 ...: out of stack! 18:22:15 just toying around 18:22:29 * ais523 wonders why there's a colon in that error message 18:22:50 oh 18:22:57 it means the : command was trying to run on an empty stack 18:22:59 +ul (::::****)((aS)S)~^^ 18:22:59 aSaSaSaSaS 18:23:12 I must check something 18:23:30 I must check what was the discarding command, again 18:23:41 ! 18:23:44 oh 18:23:47 discards the top stack element 18:23:52 Does S discard the text it outputs? 18:23:58 umm 18:24:00 decrementing 18:24:09 hm? 18:24:12 yeah 18:24:13 it does 18:24:18 at least that's what esowiki says 18:24:19 is it hard or trivial? 18:24:32 relatively hard, but not too long 18:24:39 don't spoil, i'll try 18:24:41 the trick is to start with the nonexistent number !!()() 18:24:50 +ul (:*(Looping... )S)^ 18:24:51 ...: out of stack! 18:24:51 and sorry, I spoiled slightly too quickly 18:24:53 hm? 18:24:54 :P 18:24:56 but I won't give away the rest 18:25:04 +ul (:*(Looping... )S):^ 18:25:04 Looping... 18:25:10 +ul (:*(Looping... )S^):^ 18:25:10 Looping... ...: out of stack! 18:25:13 ok 18:25:14 +ul (:(Looping... )S^):^ 18:25:15 Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... Looping... ...too much output! 18:25:16 ais523: spoiling is actually one of your things when it comes to teaching 18:25:17 yay 18:25:28 i mean, in my head 18:25:42 You don't concatenate, because it overflows the stack, but it still works. 18:26:02 asiekierka: what's the * for? 18:26:10 it's not at all obvious what you're trying to concatenat 18:26:12 *concatenate 18:26:24 OH 18:26:31 i get it i get it 18:26:32 the thing that's concatenating 18:26:33 * oklopol tries 18:26:35 so concatenate itself 18:26:36 basically 18:26:38 But now i see 18:26:40 ^ discards it 18:26:47 it has nothing to concat so it fails 18:26:48 yes 18:27:10 It duplicates at the beginning to have what to duplicate from 18:27:17 ok, i see 18:28:16 Now, tell me how do you use numbers in Underload, please. 18:29:25 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:29:34 +ul ()(:~(*)*:( )*S~^):^ 18:29:35 :~(*)*:( )*S~^* :~(*)*:( )*S~^** :~(*)*:( )*S~^*** :~(*)*:( )*S~^**** :~(*)*:( )*S~^***** :~(*)*:( )*S~^****** :~(*)*:( )*S~^******* :~(*)*:( )*S~^******** ...too much output! 18:29:40 what the 18:29:45 ah 18:29:55 that is some nice output 18:30:11 uhhh 18:30:21 +ul ()(~(*)*:( )*S~:^):^ 18:30:22 * ** *** **** ***** ****** ******* ******** ********* ********** *********** ************ ************* ************** *************** **************** ...too much output! 18:30:31 ugh, connection dropped 18:30:33 where was I? 18:30:37 gah, I missed it 18:30:39 Now, tell me how do you use numbers in Underload, please. 18:30:39 do I have to check logs, or will someone tell me what it was? 18:30:43 ah, a nice simple increment loop 18:30:45 presumably that was oklopol? 18:30:48 and oerjan did +ul ()(:~(*)*:( )*S~^):^ 18:30:49 asiekierka: ok 18:30:51 0 is !() 18:30:53 1 is the null string 18:30:54 yeah 18:30:55 2 is :* 18:30:56 2 is :* 18:30:57 3 is ::** 18:30:57 <- moi 18:30:59 4 is :::*** 18:31:00 3 is ::** 18:31:01 and so on 18:31:04 i see 18:31:05 and well done oerjan 18:31:10 i did know this, but couldn't recall it... quite 18:31:18 basically, 0 means "make 0 copies of the TOS" 18:31:23 1 means "make 1 copy of the TOS" 18:31:26 2 means "make 2 copies of the TOS" 18:31:28 and so on 18:31:30 Maybe we'll talk by msg 18:31:34 so we don't clutter up the channel 18:31:43 Except if you WANT TO chat here 18:33:44 why not, it's definitely on topic 18:34:48 +ul (*)(~:*:( )*S~:^):^ 18:34:49 ** **** ******** **************** ******************************** **************************************************************** ...too much output! 18:35:11 hmph 18:35:32 oerjan: what were you trying to do? 18:35:46 powers of two, but missed the initial * 18:36:45 +ul (*)(~:( )*S:*~:^):^ 18:36:46 * ** **** ******** **************** ******************************** **************************************************************** ...too much output! 18:39:12 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:39:32 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:40:21 Fairly simple: 18:40:22 +ul (:::***)(x)~^ 18:40:31 oh, right 18:40:33 +ul (:::***)(x)~^S 18:40:33 xxxx 18:40:35 asiekierka: that'll need an output command somewhere 18:40:40 Yay, so outputting works 18:40:45 I'll test stuff here 18:40:50 CONTEST: OKLOPOL vs. ASIEKIERKA 18:40:54 TOPIC: SUBTRACTION IN UNDERLOAD 18:40:56 TIME: INFINITE 18:41:01 WINNER: WHO FINISHES IT FIRST! 18:42:58 +ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ 18:42:59 */*/**/***/*****/********/*************/*********************/**********************************/******************************************************* ...too much output! 18:43:06 (pasted) 18:43:09 oerjan: didn't you just copy that from the wiki? 18:43:19 he did 18:43:21 as he said 18:43:50 sometimes copying gets the final newline even when it doesn't look that way 18:43:54 yes, typing lag 18:46:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:47:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:50:50 IITT'S HHAARRDD!!! 18:53:58 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:57:43 +ul (?)(:)~(*)**S 18:57:43 :?* 18:58:02 oerjan: implementing an increment? 18:58:07 yeah 18:58:08 owww, my head hurts 18:58:09 a lot 18:58:16 probably due to the subtracthinking 18:59:50 -!- olsner has joined. 19:01:31 +ul (:*)((:)~*(*)*:(x)~S):^ 19:01:31 :(:)~*(*)*:(x)~S* 19:01:52 What? 19:02:01 hm 19:02:11 +ul (:*)((:)~*(*)*:(x)~^S^):^ 19:02:37 +ul (x)S 19:02:37 x 19:02:45 +ul (:*)((:)~*(*)*:(x)~^S(/)S^):^ 19:02:55 +ul (:*)(~(:)~*(*)*:(x)~^S~:^):^ 19:02:56 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 19:03:03 +ul (:*)(~(:)~*(*)*:(x)~^S(/)S~:^):^ 19:03:03 xxx/xxxx/xxxxx/xxxxxx/xxxxxxx/xxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 19:03:06 you were almost right 19:03:37 Missed it by one char? 19:03:39 the problem with what you were doing is that the copy of the function ended up on top of your counter 19:03:43 rather than beneath 19:03:46 so I added a couple of ~ 19:03:56 to put the copy of the function below the counter during the body of the loop 19:04:01 and back on top again to reloop at the end 19:04:05 so missed it by 2 chars 19:04:08 ok 19:04:15 But i was this close 19:04:23 So i'm beginning grasping underload, it seems 19:04:42 This will be only testing 19:04:51 +ul (::**)*(x)~^S 19:04:52 ...^ out of stack! 19:05:00 don't help me now, ais523 19:05:01 ...please 19:05:16 +ul (::**):*(x)~^S 19:05:16 xxxxxxxxx 19:05:17 ok, I'll shut up for a bit 19:05:28 Ok, so i have an exponentator 19:05:45 +ul (::**):*(x)~*S 19:05:45 x::**::** 19:05:50 uh, nope, wrong 19:06:01 +ul (::**)(:*)*(x)~^s 19:06:02 +ul (::**)(:*)*(x)~^S 19:06:03 xxxxxx 19:06:10 Ok, and this is a multiplicator 19:06:13 written all by myself 19:06:29 and now an additor 19:07:00 +ul (::**)(:)~*(*)~(x)~^S 19:07:00 xxx 19:07:06 nope, not yet 19:07:09 lemme think 19:07:32 +ul (::**)(:)~*(*)*(x)~^S 19:07:32 xxxx 19:07:43 Ok, that's adding 3 with 2, but it's 3+1 then 19:08:04 +ul (::**)(:::)~*(***)*(x)~^S 19:08:04 xxxxxx 19:08:11 and that's 3+4, but here, it's 3+3 19:08:15 Underload is that weird. 19:08:25 asiekierka: ::: is not a number 19:08:34 ah wait 19:08:39 you've split the ::: from the ***? 19:08:51 yes 19:08:58 I can fix it by adding : and * again 19:09:00 so i will 19:09:22 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:09:41 +ul (::::****)()~:(:)~^~(*)~^(!)~^(x)~^^ 19:09:42 ...* out of stack! 19:09:46 :) 19:09:54 okay so that wasn't right 19:10:06 and no help or i shall swat 19:10:07 :P 19:10:25 (i haven't been figuring it out this long, was watching friends) 19:10:33 (more like half a minute) 19:10:42 do your friends approve of your watching? 19:10:51 they love it 19:11:21 well then 19:12:56 working on the additor 19:13:10 +ul (::**)(:::)~*(***)*(this stops the editing part)!(:)~*(*)*(x)~^S 19:13:10 xxxxxxx 19:13:12 ok 19:13:14 now it works 19:13:15 yaay 19:13:53 Does anyone need help with grasping it? 19:13:59 I think I know how it works 19:14:01 +ul (::::****)()~:(:)~^~(*)~^(!)~***(x)~^^ 19:14:02 ...^ out of stack! 19:14:20 basically, you can remove(textblah)! 19:14:31 +ul (::**)(:::)~*(***)*(:)~*(*)*(x)~^S 19:14:32 xxxxxxx 19:14:32 asiekierka: yes, that's used for comments 19:14:38 yeah 19:14:40 Since it's a no-op 19:14:41 asiekierka: ais523 invented underload 19:14:41 :-P 19:14:45 also it's common to use commented-out newlines 19:14:50 in long programs 19:14:58 oh wait 19:15:03 ais523: wow 19:15:14 you created it!? 19:15:15 yes 19:15:19 awesome 19:15:26 Now i see why you know every thing about it 19:15:28 every aspect 19:16:03 I only hate one thing about Underload: It isn't sufficent to make an IRCbot! 19:16:38 okay i officially suck at this. i actually had a large semantical error in that prog. 19:16:48 but, i have it now, except not yet on code 19:17:02 You should make underload, but with input 19:17:17 But you don't have ways to process in... too much complication! 19:17:21 wait 19:17:22 i mean 19:17:27 But you don't have ways to process inp ...too much complication! 19:17:39 indeed 19:17:58 except if you give input like 19:18:29 ::::::****** ::** :* ::::**** ::** !() ::::::::******** ::** ::::**** :* 19:18:45 +ul (::::****):(:)~^(!())*~(*)~^*(xS)~^^ 19:18:46 which is ve ...too much complication! 19:19:20 Error: Unrecognized Command in the debugger 19:19:29 SxSxSxSxS is in the Program 19:19:35 so i think it couldn't process "x" 19:19:41 +ul (::::****):(:)~^(!())*~(*)~^*((x)S)~^^ 19:19:42 xxxxx 19:19:46 ... :P 19:19:56 and this is what 19:20:07 since it basically does nothing in something 19:20:08 NiS! 19:20:12 btw, I also wrote both the debugger, and Thutubot 19:20:42 +ul (::::****):(:)~^(!())*~(*)~^*S 19:20:42 :::::!()***** 19:20:45 holy--- *faints* 19:21:01 ais523, i'm making a new religion, just for you 19:21:07 oklopol: in other words, 5, just like your input was 19:21:08 +ul (*)(::::****)^ 19:21:14 ais523: whoops. 19:21:16 okay 19:21:19 +ul (::::****):(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*S 19:21:20 :::::!!()()***** 19:21:29 +ul (::::****):(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*(x)~^S 19:21:29 xxxx 19:21:35 eeehhh 19:21:39 eehhhheehh 19:21:46 eeehhewehhehehehhe *faints. TWICE* 19:21:47 * asiekierka dies 19:21:50 * asiekierka dies 19:21:52 * asiekierka explodes 19:21:55 * asiekierka bongs 19:22:01 * asiekierka trolls 19:22:04 * asiekierka jumps 19:22:08 * asiekierka kills oklopol 19:22:11 * oerjan swats asiekierka back to the ground ----### 19:22:28 +ul (not like it'd execute, but hey)S----### 19:22:28 not like it'd execute, but hey 19:22:42 +ul (/me tests something)S----### 19:22:42 /me tests something 19:22:49 TT__TT 19:22:57 +ul (ACTION tests something)S----### 19:22:57 ACTION tests something 19:22:57 asiekierka: considering how much i've played with esolangs, it would've been quite weird if you had beaten me imo 19:23:00 oklopol: is that 5-1 you just did? 19:23:05 asiekierka: impossible 19:23:06 I think it is 19:23:07 asiekierka: yes 19:23:08 ais523: yes, he did 19:23:16 +ul (ACTION tests something)S 19:23:17 * thutubot tests something 19:23:23 +ul (::::****)(:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*)^(x)~^S 19:23:23 xxxx 19:23:41 +ul (QUIT)S 19:23:45 uh 19:23:48 +ul (PART)S 19:23:50 +ul (PART #esoteric)S 19:23:54 +ul (::::::******)(:::***)(:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*)~^^(x)~^S 19:23:55 xxx 19:23:56 asiekierka: QUIT isn't a CTCP 19:24:00 +ul (::::::******)(::::***)(:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*)~^^(x)~^S 19:24:10 +ul (JOIN #esoteic)S 19:24:12 nope 19:24:26 +ul (VERSION)S 19:24:31 +ul (PING)S 19:24:32 asiekierka: oh, right, that actually is possible :P 19:24:36 +ul (::::::******)(::::****)(:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*)~^^(x)~^S 19:24:37 xx 19:24:44 ok, enough 19:24:45 +ul (:::::::::*********)(::::****)(:(:)~^(!!()())*~(*)~^*)~^^(x)~^S 19:24:45 xxxxx 19:24:59 oklopol: 10-5=5? 19:25:01 subtraction, although that's not really a feat 19:25:04 I think you officially win that contest 19:25:05 yes 19:25:10 but i quit 19:25:15 25 minutes before you did it 19:25:19 my brain hurted 19:25:21 of all this 19:25:33 so even if you did fail 19:25:38 now, the way I did divmod in my base-10 program was utterly different from that 19:25:39 you still win 19:25:43 would have won* 19:25:59 also you had MORE TIME 19:26:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Now bus"). 19:26:16 Ok 19:26:20 I officially suck at Underload 19:26:22 or do i not 19:27:06 i had more time? 19:27:09 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:27:13 when did you start 19:27:16 how many minutes ago 19:27:16 or hours 19:27:21 err, 5 past nine 19:27:30 i have a different timezone 19:27:31 so 19:27:37 how many hours ago 19:27:50 according to the log, took me about 15 minutes to get it 19:27:52 BONUS POINTS: calculate it your subtraction method 19:27:56 but i wasn't really trying that hard 19:28:02 I tried too hard 19:28:05 started a hour ago 19:28:06 and failed 19:28:43 I wonder if you can code something in DOBELA 19:28:54 something slightly interesting 19:28:58 I coded CAT and HELLO so far 19:29:04 to show how DOBELA works a bit more 19:29:12 all i can think atm is noprob 19:29:21 and underload 19:29:23 and how fucking annoyingly ironic the name is 19:29:28 oerjan: i hate you 19:29:28 also, what about ais523? 19:29:45 asiekierka: what about me? 19:29:52 y-y-yy-yes 19:29:58 what about you? can you code something in DOBELA 19:30:34 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:30:56 * oklopol wants someone to tell him the truth about noprob 19:31:57 noprob(lem with making this hard as hell)? 19:33:32 Hm. I don't know if my esolang can calculate the Fibonacci sequence _easily_ 19:33:43 hmm 19:33:51 fibs in underload, let's try that 19:34:18 +ul (::::****)(x)~^S 19:34:19 xxxxx 19:34:26 oklopol: it was done 19:34:41 +ul (::::****)((:)~*(*)*)(x)~^S 19:34:42 :x* 19:34:45 You basically have an addition loop (I did it) only different 19:34:47 +ul (::::****)((:)~*(*)*)^(x)~^S 19:34:48 xxxxxx 19:34:59 asiekierka: you think i care whether it was done? :D 19:35:06 oh 19:35:10 you did fibonacci? 19:35:11 can i see 19:35:22 nope 19:35:25 I didn't do fibonacci 19:35:28 i said i did an addition loop 19:35:36 Which is quite a base to fibas 19:35:38 fibs* 19:35:46 well, you did increment in a loop 19:35:48 +ul (::::****)(:::***)(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)^(x)~^S 19:35:48 xxxxxxxxx 19:35:49 which isn't quite the same thing 19:36:01 You can modify the increment value, that's one 19:36:16 and, oh well 19:36:18 only if you split the : from the *, which is possible but non-trivial 19:36:23 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:37:08 wait a second 19:37:11 you can do it!? 19:37:44 yes 19:37:52 n is represented by n-1 :s and n-1 *s 19:37:53 how? 19:37:56 so subtract 1 from n 19:38:07 then use n to multiply up a : and a * 19:38:17 just like it's used to multiply up xs in the standard unary output routine 19:38:53 Underload is a bit too hard for me 19:38:54 actually 19:39:02 I'll stick to... uh oh... DOBELA 19:39:06 But this wouldn't be useful 19:39:20 only because no-one cares about DOBELA programs 19:39:30 asiekierka: no one cares about most of things. 19:39:41 but i mean no-one 19:39:46 as in 19:39:48 NOBODY 19:39:56 maybe ais523, but i doubt it 19:40:40 if you really care whether people care about everything you do, i suggest you either become famous, or find a good psychiatrist 19:40:40 hmm... I wonder if I care about most of things 19:40:45 it probably depends on what things are 19:40:57 Oklopol: Nope, but this is my first esolang 19:41:08 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:41:16 asiekierka: well there's been more discussion than on many languages. 19:41:22 ehird doesn't seem to believe that random people stop me in the street and say hello 19:41:25 but it happened this morning 19:41:37 what discussion 19:41:52 asiekierka: people have read the spec, and talked about it 19:41:58 yes 19:42:02 i implemented it 19:42:06 five times. 19:42:14 what did you implement 19:42:16 but for instance, i doubt anyone even knows what my contribution to the wiki is 19:42:19 dobela 19:42:26 prove it 19:42:35 or you're a liar 19:43:01 ehird? 19:43:04 asiekierka: are you religious? if so, you just called yourself a liar 19:43:13 * ehird disappears in a puff of logic. 19:43:35 ok 19:43:37 you're not a liar 19:43:38 :P 19:43:42 but you STILL didn't prove it 19:44:07 * asiekierka takes a spell book and makes ehird reappear 19:44:13 Ehahaehirda 19:46:36 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:47:04 EHIR 19:47:05 EHIRD 19:47:20 You and your stupid excuses! Nngh! 19:47:30 * asiekierka notes: excessive excuser, ehird 19:47:48 * asiekierka adds: famous esolang guy, ais523 19:48:02 * asiekierka adds (in) before "famous" in ais523's entry 19:49:25 -!- GiveMeMony has joined. 19:51:17 someone get ehird here! 19:51:23 Or i will kill him 19:52:48 ehird is here 19:52:52 just not saying things 19:53:02 e's active in at least one other Freenode channel 19:53:21 -!- M0ny has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:54:19 uh 19:54:20 he isn't anywhere else 19:54:57 ais523: a is ending execution, and stack is " <1> <2> (TOS)", is there any way to get up from there? 19:55:07 asiekierka: channels can be +s'd 19:55:07 asiekierka: there are a lot of secret channels on Freenode 19:55:14 because channels are secret by default 19:55:15 didn't you read the rfc ;) 19:55:19 and most people never bother to change that 19:55:27 yes i know 19:55:28 oklopol: yes, there is 19:55:37 a~a will change <1> <2> into (<2>)(<1>) 19:55:38 i can't find a way :| 19:55:41 yes 19:55:44 then * will give you ((<2>)(<1>)) 19:55:51 you can swap that stack element below 19:56:01 and later on, ^ will split (<2>)(<1>) back into <2> <1> 19:56:36 i had almost exactly that 19:56:45 hmmhmm 19:58:23 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:58:42 ais523: ah, now i get it 19:58:44 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:59:12 the idea is just to lift them in the string, in which case you can append them to either end 20:00:01 or do i get it. 20:00:03 hmm 20:00:05 :D 20:00:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:01:02 oklopol: that sounds vaguely like how it's done, yes 20:01:03 -!- GiveMeMony has changed nick to M0ny. 20:01:04 i mean 20:01:32 <1> <2> should be turned to <1> <2> 20:01:35 so 20:01:42 i first lift 1 and 2 into a string 20:01:52 and i get (<1> <2>) 20:01:58 then, i swap? 20:02:06 (<1> <2>) 20:02:35 then, i can either duplicate or append 20:02:39 the problem is i cannot do both 20:02:48 because if i append, i lose 20:03:06 and if i duplicate, i lose the ability to use (<1> <2>) 20:03:09 ah, there is a solution, let me try to remember what it is 20:03:51 remembering is inelegant when it comes to programming, mister :D 20:03:52 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:03:56 yes 20:03:58 or work it out 20:04:02 yeah 20:04:12 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:04:38 ais523: (<1> <2>) (~^)+ 20:04:44 and then ^ 20:04:56 the solution is you can modify the thing you recurse to 20:04:59 and it can do the swap 20:05:08 ah yes, that's what it is 20:05:23 I've done that loads of times before, for some reason I forgot about it though 20:05:34 and you probably mean something other than + there 20:05:43 i mean concatenation 20:06:09 +ul (this is param 1)(this is param 2)(:S~:S~a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:06:10 this is param 2this is param 1 ...: out of stack! 20:06:13 :P 20:06:22 +ul (:S~:S~a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)(this is param 1)(this is param 2)(:S~:S~a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:06:23 this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1this is param 2this is param 1 ...too much output! 20:11:39 +ul (:Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)(a)(b)(:Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:11:40 baababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababa ...too much output! 20:11:52 +ul (:Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)(a)(b)(:S( )Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:11:53 b aababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababa ...too much output! 20:11:56 :P 20:11:59 what does this doo? 20:12:05 +ul (:S( )Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)(a)(b)(:S( )Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:12:06 b a ab aba abaab abaababa abaababaabaab abaababaabaababaababa abaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaab abaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababa abaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaab abaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababaabaababaabaababaababaabaababaababa ...too much output! 20:12:12 just fibonacci 20:12:13 asiekierka: floods the channel, I think 20:12:15 It makes a sheep-like sound. 20:12:22 ah, I see 20:12:29 fibonnaci, but with two different characters 20:12:32 why a and b? 20:12:42 asiekierka: clearer code that way 20:13:17 because i cannot name the addition block, i would have to have that in the code, or somewhere in the stack, both would make it fairly cluttery 20:13:41 -!- Slereah2 has joined. 20:13:52 not that that matters, just thought in this case it's sufficient to make it work conceptually 20:15:54 +ul (:S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)()()(:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:15:55 x ()() 20:15:56 ... 20:16:00 +ul (:S( )Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)(a)(a)(:S( )Sa~a~*:^*~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:16:01 a a aa aaa aaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ...too much output! 20:16:05 :) 20:16:06 +ul (:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)()()(:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:16:06 x x 20:16:09 ... 20:16:42 +ul (:^):^ 20:16:43 i didn't actually have any intermediate form, so it's not completely trivial to change the concatenation function 20:16:43 ...out of time! 20:16:51 i can't actually *read* underload. 20:17:07 ^show 20:17:07 echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp oko cho choo 20:17:12 ^oko 20:17:15 ^oko o 20:17:15 ^def rot26 ,[.,] 20:17:18 ^show oko 20:17:21 ...out of time! 20:17:21 Usage: ^def 20:17:21 >,[>,]<[<]>[>[.>]<[<]>] 20:17:25 +ul (:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)()()(:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)^~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:17:25 x x xx 20:17:30 :D 20:17:34 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:17:35 ^rot26 +ul (hi!)S 20:17:40 +ul (:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)^~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)()()(:(x)~^S( )Sa~a~*:^(((:)~*(*)*)~^^)^~^!a~a~*~:(~^)~*^)^ 20:17:42 x x xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! 20:17:49 naaagh 20:17:54 ^rot26 +ul (hi!)S 20:17:58 ^rot26 aaa 20:18:02 ^show rot26 20:18:04 ^show 20:18:05 echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp oko cho choo 20:18:11 fungot seems lagged atm 20:18:11 ais523: that's the point 20:18:14 try not bothering it for a while 20:18:14 ^def rot26 bf ,[.,] 20:18:15 Defined. 20:18:21 maybe not 20:18:22 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:18:22 ^rot26 +ul (hi!)S 20:18:22 +ul (hi!)S 20:18:22 hi! 20:18:34 +ul (^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S)S 20:18:34 ^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S 20:18:34 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S 20:18:35 +ul (^rot26 +ul (+ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S 20:18:47 yeah, i did something wrong 20:19:09 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:19:10 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S 20:19:10 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S 20:19:11 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S 20:19:11 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:19:11 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:19:12 ^rot26 +ul (hi!)S 20:19:12 +ul (hi!)S 20:19:12 hi! 20:19:17 Wow 20:19:46 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S)S)S 20:19:46 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S)S 20:19:47 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S)S 20:19:47 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S 20:19:47 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S)S 20:19:48 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S 20:19:48 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S)S 20:19:48 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S 20:19:48 +ul (^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S)S 20:19:49 ^rot26 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:19:49 +ul (^rot26 +ul (hi!)S)S 20:19:49 ^rot26 +ul (hi!)S 20:19:50 +ul (hi!)S 20:19:50 hi! 20:19:57 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:19:58 Neat 20:20:16 D: 20:20:20 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Success). 20:20:20 +ul (^rot26 +ul (:*))S(:*)^ 20:20:20 ^rot26 +ul (:*) ...: out of stack! 20:20:20 +ul (:*) ...: out of stack! 20:20:21 RAAAAAAAAAAAGE 20:20:30 ebbeh 20:20:39 ^rot13 ebbeh 20:20:39 rooru 20:20:44 ^rot13 ebbeh 20:20:45 rooru 20:20:47 rooru? 20:20:49 rootu? 20:20:52 uroot 20:20:53 ur root 20:22:12 CONTEST: Write an infinite loop between fungot and thutubot! 20:22:12 asiekierka: stalin and larceny used some weird syntax error in it, but the 20:22:15 WINNER: Whoever does it first 20:22:21 asiekierka: I've done that before 20:22:24 so I win already 20:22:31 in fact, I did a multi-bot infinite loop 20:22:33 do it agian 20:22:37 again* 20:22:37 then 20:22:38 fungot, thutubot and CO2Bot looped 20:22:39 ais523: lots of editors have fully rebindable keys around. i just have to pick *some* ordering for the indices anyway 20:22:45 and optbot said something every time round 20:22:45 ais523: Look at that incredible string at the end. 20:22:55 do fungot&optbot&thutubot 20:22:56 asiekierka: thanks for the advice. thank you very much 20:22:56 asiekierka: That's what my "java" is, but apparently the problem was the .class was compiled with sun-jdk-javac. 20:22:58 see you 20:23:27 asiekierka: I don't like infinite loops because someone has to stop them 20:23:44 which means quitting thutubot, normally 20:23:49 and then I'd have to restart it, which is a pain 20:23:50 You can just stop execution on thutubotter 20:23:58 make a .sh to do it 20:24:00 :) 20:24:00 it's on a different server 20:24:05 i like competitions, i wish someone who was good at esolangs challenged me occasionally. 20:24:16 so do it, oklopol 20:24:19 i'd like to see results 20:24:19 oklopol: maybe I should have an esolang contest with you sometime 20:24:20 do what? 20:24:24 not right now, though, I'm busy 20:24:39 do fungot&optbot&thutubot 20:24:39 asiekierka: I know. I read it. I'm a Perl enthusiast, sorry. 20:24:39 asiekierka: a checkpoint image, basically. 20:24:42 infinite loop between them 20:24:55 wait 20:25:05 i'm fairly busy too, millions of pages to read 20:25:09 ^rot26 optbot 20:25:09 optbot 20:25:09 asiekierka: the program would then be first => print "Hello world!" 20:25:10 fungot: (Python is pretty crappy too) 20:25:10 optbot: and opencroquet too. you probably simply want to use 20:25:10 fungot: they're obviously completely different; one is about numbers, and the other is about numbers /and/ symbols 20:25:11 optbot: considering how one keeps seeing it in places if it will be 20:25:11 fungot: !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.>+++.<<.+++.------.--------.>+. 20:25:11 optbot: there's a second complete set of modern apis and features that toys like python will have the money 20:25:13 fungot: ooooh burn 20:25:13 optbot: mit has ridiculously long hostnames, even respectable people; the part before 20:25:13 fungot: ah 20:25:16 -!- Judofyr has quit. 20:25:25 and? 20:25:35 oh 20:25:43 fungot has an anti-flood limit 20:25:44 asiekierka: i find that my thingy is too slow to me 20:25:44 brb 20:35:14 To get a smaller Wikipedia talk-page sample for fungot training, I decided to take every talk page whose title's crc32 checksum is divisible by 256. 20:35:15 fizzie: poof! there go my weekends :) 20:35:37 wow... that was really insightful in context 20:35:44 Yes. 20:35:56 :P 20:35:59 -!- Slereah2 has quit (Connection timed out). 20:36:12 The first five pages it picked up were 'Aland Islands', 'Ark of the Covenant', 'Commutator', 'Distilling' and 'Feminist Spirituality'. 20:36:33 Commutator D: 20:36:44 [x,y] = xy - yx D: 20:37:04 -!- M0ny has quit ("Hum... Hum..."). 20:37:11 Commutator is the only page out of those five that I remember having visited. (And that was very recently.) 20:38:23 I need to do something to the MediaWiki markup before using those dumped-out pages, though. 20:39:31 Assuming the pages whose crc&0xff==0 are a representative sample, I should get something like 20 megs of wiki-text out of it. That's a nice little breakfast for fungot. 20:39:32 fizzie: you could have 20:44:09 back 20:44:45 fizzie: I must make a bot having all of Wikipedia 20:44:50 where can you download the wikipedia 20:46:02 http://download.wikimedia.org/ -- though it's a bit big. 20:46:14 Around 8 gigabytes as a bzip2'd XML-dump. 20:46:43 Okay, the archive without user and talk pages is a bit smaller. 20:47:17 Ok, if I ever touch MEGAHAL again 20:47:23 I'm implementing it into a robot-like thing 20:47:30 hooking up a CPU, an old speech synthesis thing 20:47:32 and stuff 20:47:41 To make the worst conversation robot EVER. 20:47:50 Mainly because it outsmarts you 20:48:33 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:49:31 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:49:59 but no, 8 GB? 20:50:09 even with the 08-07-28 version, 7,3GB? 20:51:15 Ouch, my robot thing will really need a fast hard drive 20:51:22 It will need to select a random line 20:51:32 from quadrillions of such 20:51:37 This calls for 128-bit counters? 20:52:06 Or is there a small conversation-oriented database for bots&such 20:52:08 64 bits is very much enough to work as offsets into a 7.3-gigabyte file. Although it's 7.3 gigs compressed. 20:52:19 but as in 20:52:20 In any case, if you just want the articles, it's only 3.9 gigabytes. 20:52:21 unpacked 20:52:31 which can be up to 140gigs or so 20:52:41 I'd need a gigantic hard drive 20:52:47 that will be split into 2 parts 20:52:49 Talk parts 20:52:53 and Article parts 20:53:05 or not 20:53:07 They'll be interleaved 20:53:14 Or wait 20:53:24 is there a special conversation database for bots? 20:53:40 something like up to 250mb unpacked 20:53:47 so it's a lot 20:53:49 but not too much 20:54:12 If you mean just generic text that can be picked from, I've tried quite a lot of sources in fungot, but so far nothing has worked as well as just IRC logs. 20:54:13 fizzie: many thread systems in scheme somewhere? at least it's more interesting make-foo in pure-fp :) 20:54:33 What about... usenet? 20:54:45 usenet and IRC 20:54:54 that would give about the same amount as wikipedia's talk pages 20:54:58 but much, MUCH better. :) 20:55:02 I don't have a handy usenet archive, but I guess selected groups might work reasonably well. 20:55:13 the stupidiest ones 20:55:17 like political 20:55:29 I tried using a thousand transcribed ten-minute telephone conversations, but that wasn't terribly interesting. 20:55:42 Hmm, yes 20:55:48 but you can't download the whole Usen--- 20:55:48 wait 20:55:57 Google has the whole usenet mirrored... OR DO THEY 20:56:28 And if you feed the bot books (I've tried a couple of authors) it just speaks like it's reading a book, not like it's speaking. 20:57:06 I am quite certain this "1/256th of Wikipedia talk pages" experiment will be utterly uninteresting too, but who knows. 20:58:12 i'll feed him... oh! 20:58:13 YOUTUBE COMMENTS 20:58:16 har har haaarrr 20:58:39 That's not really a new idea. 20:58:41 also, what bot system are you using? 20:58:44 MegaHal? 20:59:01 Er, it's just fungot. Completely homegrown, completely without any trace of intelligence. 20:59:01 fizzie: i think so 20:59:13 See, even the bot admits it. 21:01:52 I've probably explained most of fungot's insides on the channel -- the stuff's in the logs, but it's not very interesting. 21:01:56 It's written in befunge. 21:02:40 To be completely honest, most of the hard work in the babbling is done with boring "real" programming languages. 21:05:34 Heh, it just dumped out "Creation science/Archive 8". I don't envy the bot who's going to have to read all that. 21:07:53 -!- Judofyr has joined. 21:23:30 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:32:57 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 21:46:47 -!- ENKI-][ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:50:57 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 21:51:14 ais523, there? 21:51:19 yes 21:51:51 ais523, As a native speaker, what would you call it when you wonder if a library can order a book they don't have in stock? 21:51:59 I'm planning this for semaphores in ATHR 21:52:10 "interlibrary loan" 21:52:19 is the common name for when you ask one library to borrow from another 21:52:30 ais523, ah, what if they don't get it from another, but order it from a publisher, say if it is a new one? 21:52:50 "interlibrary loan" could work too, and probably be better 21:52:57 I don't know if there's a single word, you'd be requesting them to order a book, pretty much 21:53:05 and I don't think if that abbreviates to one word 21:53:25 however you will need to set it an advance, to set how many books there are in stock, before using that book 21:53:32 so I need some good name for that 21:54:53 also I think I solved the problem of funge space update, not sure how effective it is hm 21:55:23 efficient* 21:55:25 as well 21:55:37 funge space bounds update* 21:56:01 You can ask the library to make a purchase order for the book. Although usually it's not the customer of the library who can specify how many books they will stock on their shelves. :p 21:57:03 * Each thread keeps its own copy of bounds. * On write outside current bounds (for a thread), send an async update bounds message to all other threads, and to funge-space thread. 21:57:04 Actually the title of the form us normal people can fill is "acquisition suggestion form". 21:57:35 http://lib.tkk.fi/en/services/remote/wwwforms/acquisition_suggestion.html -- doesn't seem to contain a field for "amount of books", though. 21:57:45 hrrm 21:58:10 fizzie, well having several books in stock would be a neat way to integrate semaphores with it 21:58:23 several copies* 21:58:36 Semaphores? 21:58:41 In wot? 21:58:54 Slereah, in the library mutex paradigm 21:58:59 What is this 21:59:14 a mutex is called a book, you borrow it to lock it, return it to unlock it 21:59:24 used for ATHR 21:59:36 which is a funge fingerprint for *async* threads 21:59:44 which I'm speccing and implementing 22:02:09 Well, I think it's reasonable if the metaphorical semantics of your instructions are "ask the library to get N copies of book K"; after all, if there's an out-of-money, I mean, out-of-memory situation they might not concede your request. 22:02:25 You can probably pick the exact words depending on what sort of characters you have still free. 22:02:28 fizzie, heh 22:03:27 BCFGINPQRSTW are used 22:05:32 ADEHJKLMOUVXYZ, then... well, O for 'order books' is one possibility. Or that A for 'Acquisition request/suggestion' like they seem to be calling it in our University library. 22:10:07 hm thanks 22:39:24 night, will work on it tomorrow (I hope) 22:44:55 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:01:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:02:07 if things start too loose, it's probably obscene 23:02:17 *to/too 23:04:17 oerjan: i hate you 23:04:24 i'm cursed, i tell you, cursed 23:08:16 -!- hakware has joined. 23:42:34 -!- hakware has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:48:29 -!- hakware has joined.