@

< 1224168702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked it. < 1224168706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes < 1224168707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing, but people don't care about it. < 1224168720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? How else to separate paragraphs? < 1224168725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:

< 1224168735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224168738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly, it's unsemantic, but nobody cares. < 1224168746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I care ;P < 1224168755 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224168765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care a negative amount, you should use

*because* it's worse for that purpose. < 1224168772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you're oklopol < 1224168782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hey, this is #esoteric, but the whole world isn't #esoteric < 1224168787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1224168792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i just checked the vjn homepage < 1224168793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1224168795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1224168795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :D < 1224168809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: vjn.fi uses
< 1224168812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this indicates that because the whole world does it the incorrect way we should all write strictly correct html < 1224168815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neither html nor xhtml XD < 1224168816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no one else does < 1224168817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224168823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i do :\ < 1224168826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's kinda cool < 1224168830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so do I < 1224168835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but we are all #esoteric < 1224168841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg rly < 1224168845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I said we should, since nobody else does < 1224168848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy in our group used that for a while, until i told them it means nothing < 1224168857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224168859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it's on the front page now, i find that a good thing < 1224168861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's reverse-self-closing < 1224168871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of... self-opens < 1224168906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, vjn.fi actually uses p and css < 1224168940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A US judge has thrown out a case against God, ruling that because the defendant has no address, legal papers cannot be served. < 1224168940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7673591.stm < 1224168975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the guy who used
is more the big picture type, the css is pretty good < 1224168999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have committees working on that site < 1224169005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224169020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we don't < 1224169112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about that link... < 1224169115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only in US" < 1224169121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1224169123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bbc link? < 1224169134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only an American would be that mad yeah < 1224169137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224169140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant < 1224169146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link didn't let you in XD < 1224169147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the country of the suing! < 1224169157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wasn't a sueing < 1224169161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suing < 1224169167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think it was to make a point, you know < 1224169167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it then? < 1224169171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Chambers < 1224169174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was a lawsuit < 1224169185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah right, does "suing" mean something else? < 1224169198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah < 1224169202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1224169211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where i link you to the wikipedia page < 1224169216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224169218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read what you said wrong < 1224169218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224169231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1224169243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no page titled "suing". < 1224169254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read what you said wrong <- dis < 1224169256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224169274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no page titled "i read what you said wrong". < 1224169278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224169293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ååååååååååååååååååååååååå < 1224169321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you meant it as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... with some extra effect then it doesn't work < 1224169333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å is ppronouncedvery differently < 1224169335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224169335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224169341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ispell went mad < 1224169342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i was just having fun < 1224169355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å is pronounced very differently < 1224169358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I menat < 1224169361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile i'm trying to make the most minimal feed reader ever and now I want to kill myself :D < 1224169370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the spelling correction breaks after an unicode char < 1224169371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1224169371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff rss atom fsfsfsfsdjfkdsf < 1224169375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which plain sucks < 1224169385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just use akregator < 1224169418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but i don't think this'll be too hard from where i am now, also i used netnewswire but i want something way more minimal < 1224169627 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, care to look up context for the topic optbot just set? < 1224169664 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more like german < 1224169685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1224169695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks < 1224169734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08.03.15:14:47:21 BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How predictable. < 1224169747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh, and in what context whas that? < 1224169760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:38 Deewiant, wow, this is pretty < 1224169760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 Assuming that instructions without any particular concurrency-related behaviour, such as ^>v<#, take one tick. < 1224169761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 Will continue to produce textual output, so strings must work correctly where concurrency is concerned: "a b" should take 5 ticks, 'a should take 1. < 1224169761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 GGGGGGOGOGOGOGOGOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO < 1224169763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:01 Deewiant, that's good I assume? :D < 1224169764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean was it ah < 1224169765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:02 ;) < 1224169767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224169767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:47:21 BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224169771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:49:03 ehird, found it, ip didn't move correctly after split < 1224169771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224169808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes sense < 1224170618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://inamidst.com/stuff/2008/thing.pl < 1224170621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perython! < 1224171184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it a polygot? or? < 1224171192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224171193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just python < 1224171200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks like perl < 1224171210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224171217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-12 is crazy < 1224171235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1224171237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what does that mean? < 1224171240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that was ::-12 < 1224171249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: [:-12] is a slice with an implicit first 0, that is < 1224171251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0 : -12] < 1224171256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with ::? < 1224171256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get all but the last 12 chars < 1224171269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ::-1 reverses < 1224171274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: is a bit complex... < 1224171279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ::-12? < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'[::-12] < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'znb' < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224171294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how that works either < 1224171297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224171302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html < 1224171304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1224171310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you should ask #python? < 1224171321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html < 1224171331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it only mentions ::-1 < 1224171335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any other level < 1224171336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does not. < 1224171340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please actually read it < 1224171341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224171352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so searching for ::- using browser doesn't work? < 1224171363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there is a thing called english < 1224171365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatted into prose < 1224171367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you read it < 1224171369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your eyes and your brain. < 1224171376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah so stride of -12 < 1224171379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 12 from end < 1224171382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224171383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes sense < 1224171394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I agree syntax is slightly mad for that < 1224171418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw would a perl/python polygot be possible? < 1224171433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1224171436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, possibly. < 1224171439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most likely not. < 1224171446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without considering the #! line I mean < 1224171458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224172464 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224173053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie and Deewiant are you there? < 1224174038 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224174141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there? < 1224174147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1224174155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that MKRY fingerprint you made? < 1224174163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it MKRL < 1224174164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1224174167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too well defined < 1224174173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't work as a parody ;P < 1224174190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't get it
< 1224174193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it too well defined < 1224174205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/mkry/ is as vague as you can get < 1224174244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is actually implementable from that spec < 1224174260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how to make it more vague, but really it is easy to implement from that < 1224174260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmm... not really < 1224174269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only because i clarified it to you < 1224174272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in here < 1224174284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I can easily see how it would work from that spec < 1224174293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you know E doesn't push like 'eeeee' or 'hhhhhh' < 1224174298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to say that it's random per character < 1224174314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well apart from that it is clear < 1224174323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its tiny, "that" is a big part < 1224174324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224175679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is "implementors" the right word for "a person making an implementation of something"? < 1224175701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementor, yes. < 1224175708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in plural? < 1224175716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just aspell doesn't like it < 1224175725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor implementor < 1224175735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1224175735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224175741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementer < 1224175763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1224175767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay then... < 1224175769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what a google gives < 1224175773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224175781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'd just say "implementors" < 1224175809 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are acceptable, according to dictonary.com < 1224175876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't trust dictonary.com on this matter < 1224175897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would < 1224175952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why not? < 1224175954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1224175957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dictonary.com/ well, glasses are a sign of intelligence, i guess < 1224175976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you're picking on a typo < 1224175977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha. < 1224175978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes of course I always knew that. Thanks < 1224175987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asztal dictionary.com < 1224175990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ meant < 1224175995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1224176008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also do you have glasses? < 1224176029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just dictonary could be a dyslexic dictionary, o and e could easily have swapped there < 1224176043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a *relevant* joke based on the typo < 1224176050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224176052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep < 1224176057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1224176063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have glasses? < 1224176078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm no, glasses and allergies are for lesser people < 1224176088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i'm a pol < 1224176089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224176090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1224176093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklogod < 1224176115 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes are both perfect and reaaaally sucky < 1224176139 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally, they simply lose the ability to ...sharpen? whazzz the term now < 1224176156 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, usually i see like a bear with large glasses < 1224176159 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really well that is < 1224176199 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you ask? < 1224176413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, as you didn < 1224176421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224176423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1224176441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't actually consider glasses a sign of intelligence then? < 1224176446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you don't wear them yourself < 1224176447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224176450 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't? < 1224176473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, obviously you only would if you needed them yourself < 1224176490 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhuh? < 1224176496 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you confusing implication and equivalence? < 1224176514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, aren't you? < 1224176524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suggest you clarify that. < 1224176535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However there is no connection I think. < 1224176549 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i only consider glasses a sign of intelligence if i had ones myself? < 1224176553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I *do* wear glasses < 1224176562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, isn't that pretty clear? < 1224176574 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224176596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a god you would be omniscient (or whatever it is called, omnipotent?) so I wouldn't need explaining < 1224176630 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, so they can't be a sign of intelligence, because if they were, i couldn't be intelligent without them? < 1224176651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, No... now you are just confusing the issue even more < 1224176660 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasses => intelligence doesn't rule out !glasses ^ intelligence < 1224176682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not glasses) bitwise_xor intelligence < 1224176684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1224176691 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, ^ as in and < 1224176694 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& < 1224176708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logical_not glasses) bitwise_and intelligence < 1224176711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not very clear < 1224176741 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not? "not to have glasses and still be intelligent" < 1224176752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is wrong < 1224176755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod is right < 1224176761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, I suggest they are two uncorrelated variables. < 1224176779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod is saying: < 1224176783 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i suggest you learn the difference between implication and equivalence < 1224176796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glasses => intelligence) & !(!glasses => !intelligence) < 1224176797 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i suggest you learn to ski and buy a boat < 1224176800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i agree with oklogod < 1224176805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he needs to learn thus < 1224176818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well what you just said was pretty clear < 1224176843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasses implies intelligence, but lack of them doesn't implies lack intelligence < 1224176851 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be more precise, !((glasses => intelligence) => !(!glasses => !intelligence)) < 1224176853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just his use of bitwise operations in that were confusing < 1224176863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, also clear < 1224176864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224176867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never used bitwise operators < 1224176873 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are less clear than others < 1224176875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes ^ is bitwise xor < 1224176878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because all you can fucking think in is C does not mean ^ = xor and & = bitwise and < 1224176883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is AND in logic < 1224176897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well he didn't state what language he used < 1224176909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so make a reasonable fucking assumption and see it's logic from the context < 1224176911 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologized for ^, that could've meant xor, because had i had xors, i would probably have used ^ for them. < 1224176918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : glasses => intelligence doesn't rule out !glasses ^ intelligence < 1224176919 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224176919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> < 1224176927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense as equal to or greater than in that context < 1224176931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does a bitwise operator < 1224176939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretty damn reasonably conclude it's using the language of logic < 1224176955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is #esoteric, stuff doesn't always make sense < 1224176969 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1224176973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's always your excuse for being unreasonable < 1224176981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric isn't about being intentionally annoying < 1224176993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be more careful, i'm beginning to show classic signs of narcism < 1224177005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you are god. < 1224177011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the god ofo ko. < 1224177027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofo oko otototo < 1224177052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of oko < 1224177106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, seems the universe likes boosting my ego, ex is asking for sex :D < 1224177177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, should have decided not to become ex then maybe? < 1224177293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224177299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224177340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1224177962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to code :| < 1224177976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does pthreads allow any form of message passing? < 1224177981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no time for codes anymore < 1224177983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in not shared memory. < 1224178246 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224178538 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224179129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's just mutexes, condition variables and the shared memory; but you can easily build message queues out of those. < 1224179451 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224179452 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224179866 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224179933 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224180400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me sometime to write the 'u' program. < 1224180410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lets you use URIs with regular utilities, like:) < 1224180425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ u cp http://google.com/ googles-index-page.html < 1224180439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ u echo "hi" > http://google.com/ # uses PUT or whatever < 1224180442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224180445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last one would be hard < 1224180451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i'd need to modify zsh < 1224180452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humbug < 1224180509 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224180526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use some sort of indication in the "file" name to indicate what you want to do with the file (like "cp data PUT:http://google.com") but it's not nearly as pretty then. < 1224180537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah... < 1224180541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1224180549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I could just write a funky FS-like thing called /u/ < 1224180561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /u/http:/google.com < 1224180758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuse seems to have a 'httpfs' but it's sadly just "mount a single http:// URL somewhere". < 1224180779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course smbsh does that "hook to open and friends" trickery to provide their /smb magic-directory. < 1224180928 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224180961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /u/ is a bit of an ugly solution, though. < 1224180977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, all tools should just accept URIs as well as files :P < 1224180986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just treat filepaths as file:// < 1224181188 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!n=bob@adsl-230-206-75.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224181785 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224182641 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-139.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182717 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182720 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still there? < 1224182895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : guess i'd need to modify zsh < 1224182895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : humbug < 1224182896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224182899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use zsh? < 1224182902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1224182917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1224182919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you prefer emacs or vi if those where the only existing editors? < 1224182927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed < 1224182931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or emacs vs. vim < 1224182931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1224182936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still here. < 1224182942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said "if those were the only existing editors" < 1224182961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/h4khwC72.html < 1224182972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, those are written in C, so I guess there's a c compiler too... i'd write my own < 1224182975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, comments on this last version? Any fingerprints need to be listed as well? < 1224183006 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224183007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? But what if the system lacked a C compiler, maybe it was a binary distro with no toolchain installed, nor any internet connection < 1224183018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd throw the computer out of the window. < 1224183024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224183032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not of any use to me/ < 1224183034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you really prefer ed, I'd recommend you to choose vim out of those two, since it has an 'ex' mode, and 'ex' is somewhat like 'ed'. < 1224183042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then, which editor is best of emacs and vim if you have to choose? < 1224183043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I don't really < 1224183052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on the usecase. < 1224183065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, text editor, programming and so on < 1224183070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use vi no matter what editor i use, for quickly tweaking config files < 1224183079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when i'm at the console and similar < 1224183088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, for actual coding, i'd go for emacs < 1224183093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1224183094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is a sysadmins tool, emacs is a coders tool < 1224183107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sentence needs some apostrophes < 1224183108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sh would you go for bash for quick tasks and zsh for more complex ones? < 1224183110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so* < 1224183113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sh < 1224183113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224183115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though... < 1224183117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because zsh scales < 1224183123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from trivial stuff to complex stuff < 1224183132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well zsh is rather large < 1224183137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd even call it bloated sometimes < 1224183140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice the largeness. < 1224183143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some tasks < 1224183144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do when using, e.g. emacs. < 1224183157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it got a built in ftp client even... < 1224183163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh that is < 1224183177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's got a builtin * client. < 1224183179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where * = everything. < 1224183182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built in as a loadable module < 1224183182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's modular. < 1224183187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224183188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zshzftpsys Zsh built-in FTP client < 1224183195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man zsh < 1224183197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can autocomplete remote paths with scp. < 1224183204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so can I under bash < 1224183205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it has tons of features, but they're modular. < 1224183207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your point? < 1224183216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm just saying that of course it has a ton of stuff like that. < 1224183218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what zsh is about. < 1224183227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not like they're cluttering up the codebase, they're modular. < 1224183232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't interfere with anything else. < 1224183234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the problem? < 1224183259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and so does bash, bash-completion is a flexible and fairly simple framework, that allow bash functions that generate possible completions for specific commands < 1224183268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's completion. < 1224183283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do everything you can do in zsh in bash < 1224183290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are in theory tc < 1224183293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1224183304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The day you show me a bash installation that can do everything zsh does without resorting to the absurd TC argument is the day I don't switch because zsh has done it all for years already and bash doesn't offer any further advantages. < 1224183305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather BSMs in reality < 1224183335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well tc argument is used a lot in this channel < 1224183337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by everyone < 1224183345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmnope < 1224183353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly for esolangs < 1224183354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you use it in a non-joke discussion < 1224183359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not the TC argument < 1224183370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tc argument is "well, that's irrelevant, they are both TC, therefore they are equally as good" < 1224183371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := bullshit < 1224183390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where did I say that exact quote? < 1224183402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't. < 1224183418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed it was as easy to do it in both those languages < 1224183418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans do this thing called "interpretation" whereby we change english text into semantic graphs in our head. < 1224183452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea how to solve: Talk in semantic graphs, somewhat like scheme is written in a parsing tree more or less < 1224183496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a fairly interesting constructed language, if it hasn't already been done < 1224183519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you feel like it, I'd add something like the pthreads condition variables. I'm sure you can build those already with the tools you have, but it's nontrivial. (The constructions I can immediately think of need to atomically unlock one mutex and try to lock another one.) Can't think of any other-fingerprint issues right now. < 1224183535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does those variables work fizzie? < 1224183605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since erlang mostly use message passing, only global variable is funge-space really < 1224183630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but couldn't P be used to sync set a variable to act as a conditional? < 1224183643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in combination with C possibly < 1224183667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can't atomically unlock a mutex and then wait on it. Probably solvable by busy-loop-polling instead of waiting, but that's just nasty. < 1224183712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well can you tell me how those condition variables really work then? I can't find any man page for them here, plenty for mutexes and semaphores, but nothing for such variables < 1224183726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Condition variables just give you an object you can wait on, and other threads can then "signal/broadcast" on that object so that the waiting thread (or threads) is started. < 1224183746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what are the relevant pthread functions for that? < 1224183776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthread_cond_wait/timedwait for waiting, signal/broadcast for releasing waiting threads (signal == one, broadcast == all), and of course the usual _init for creating one. < 1224183803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sleep/resume functions seem to have gone? < 1224183842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you made sleep release all held locks, and to automatically reacquire them when the thread is resumed, you'd basically have given a single condition variable per thread. < 1224184074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well sleep/resume could be added, but I was unsure if it was needed < 1224184122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also just sleep, with optional release, and allow another thread to resume it, would be easy < 1224184134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder to reacquire all locks < 1224184142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to cause dead-lock < 1224184169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always easy to cause deadlocks with explicit synchronization code, that's pretty much a given. < 1224184180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1224184242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some form of waiting (other than simply waiting for a locked mutex to become true -- for one thing, that sort of wait can only be ended by the thread owning the lock, and there's no atomic "release this controlling mutex before waiting" thing) could be helpful, anyway. < 1224184270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1224184275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe also wait with timeout? < 1224184289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1224184304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be trivial in erlang < 1224184305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course just aping the pthreads API is not inherently very esoteric. OTOH, I'd at least almost know how to use it. :p < 1224184309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about pthreads < 1224184325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does pthreads mutexes have timeout? < 1224184353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems they don't? < 1224184361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh timedlock < 1224184362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1224184365 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224184368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also cond_timedwait. < 1224184382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :P < 1224184436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway using G P and C should allow building almost any form of syncing I think? < 1224184446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare-and-exchange is quite powerful I read somewhere < 1224184477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powerful, yes, but a lot of the constructions involve busy-waiting for something to happen in the shared memory. < 1224184487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was some scientific article comparing what sort of lockless atomic operations could be used to simulate other lockless atomic operations) < 1224184495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and compare and exchange was the most powerful iirc) < 1224184507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could provide inc/dec easily too < 1224184512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a funge-space cell < 1224184530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would return the new value due to erlang's api < 1224184533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the old one < 1224184543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course old one would be easy too < 1224184549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still nice to have something that can be used to tell the scheduler "hey, don't bother waking me up until ". < 1224184572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I agree, but it should be original, not just ape pthreads < 1224184575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any good idea? < 1224184578 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224184593 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224184597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang got waiting for message of course < 1224184617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe allow waiting for another thread to send a specific global number? < 1224184665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could add built-in message queues (with a "wait for a message" thing) that can deliver one funge cell to the named (ID) thread. < 1224184667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like W (n) - block until another thread signals the number n is received < 1224184680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I for sigNal < 1224184708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's maybe stranger, so just use that. < 1224184783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224184786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sIgnal < 1224184789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1224184795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure if it would be nice to have something that can really do that atomic "unlock this mutex before waiting, reacquire it afterwards" operation. < 1224184809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well reaquire could just block. < 1224184820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it usually does. < 1224184823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1224184834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait with Unlock < 1224184837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224184855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one given above < 1224184862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that allows locking/unlocking < 1224184880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see myself using it. :p < 1224184900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think possibly mutexes should be renamed too < 1224184910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any good idea for a name? < 1224184934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the "lock" terminology if you like. Or something original and punny inspired from that sort of thing. < 1224184945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bolt? < 1224184959 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hasp' < 1224184961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from bolting the door < 1224184964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, good idea < 1224184974 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224184975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOCK for locking a mutex, PICK for releasing it. :p < 1224184983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well hm < 1224184994 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats pretty good too :) < 1224184994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about sync put then? < 1224185012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already uses P < 1224185013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1224185028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set is used for spawn < 1224185034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t for try lock < 1224185036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224185037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T < 1224185038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'd probably keep the G/P pair for operations that are like g/p; it's what FILE and STRN and probably others do. < 1224185047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1224185061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so calling it hasp would work < 1224185137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nail" for locking a mutex, "Crowbar" for releasing it. Except that you already use C for CMPXCHG. And maybe it's a bit too "sounds like illegal activities". :p < 1224185150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1224185167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they shouldn't be called mutexes I think < 1224185180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you end up picking some unstandard nomenclature, by all means completely avoid the word mutex in the spec. < 1224185187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nail with the operations hammer and crowbar would work < 1224185192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hasp it would be? < 1224185224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C is already used too really :/ < 1224185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw: < 1224185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that an implementation _may_ make g, p and other such instructions < 1224185258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous as well, but it is not guaranteed. Block access should never be < 1224185258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous. < 1224185263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although nail/hammer/crowbar has pretty strange real-world implications. "This instruction hammers in a nail; only the same thread can then use crowbar for releasing it. If some other thread wants to hammer the nail in, it must wait for the original thread to crowbar it out." < 1224185268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing indicates that I would do so to begin with < 1224185284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok that doesn't work < 1224185289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do with a hasp? < 1224185296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift to open it? < 1224185298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1224185303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for locking it? < 1224185325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try thinking of something lock-unrelated that's simply mutually exclusive in the real world. < 1224185346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also that above works easily too, since there is only one hammer and one crowbar, per nail < 1224185361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and regulations forbid using the hammer or crowbar from the wrong nail < 1224185384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers that
< 1224185427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could use "a person" as a mutex, then "Kidnap" would be the operation to acquire that particular person, and then "Ransom" would be needed to get the person available again. :p < 1224185461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to awayize now for a while (an hour or so), have fun inventing names. < 1224185496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well going to eat soon < 1224185503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your mutex-creation operation anyway? I don't think I saw one in the draft. < 1224185511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ransom would be a different one < 1224185515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is no need to create it? < 1224185526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just locking on an arbitrary erlang term < 1224185531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you can just use any ID you want? M'k. < 1224185540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in this case any number < 1224185545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe cleaner that way. < 1224185547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in valid range for the implementation < 1224185551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea: < 1224185552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is BIGNUM for efunge < 1224185554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plaintext fingerprint. < 1224185555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1224185567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All letters apart from X push a special value for themselves on the stack. < 1224185569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X executes it. < 1224185572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLOX might print hello world < 1224185653 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HULOXXX < 1224185760 0 :atrapado!i=ro@cm36185.red83-165.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224186063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to properly define it though < 1224186066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1224186078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or no one could implement it < 1224186088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply that I will implement it even if you define it < 1224186090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/feedfinder/feedfinder.py Face the horror of the multi-step magical feed finder that takes up to 5 seconds to find most feeds because the web is horribly broken and nobody complies to anything!) < 1224186104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw have you showed MKRY to Mike Riley? < 1224186108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1224186118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll go wtf, or ehehehhehhehehhehe, i imagine < 1224186133 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it might be worse than me agreeing with you < 1224186146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224186150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll probably implement it < 1224186150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224186154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to the spec, ofc < 1224186159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1224186185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also did you look at this ATHR I'm working on? < 1224186193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224186194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224186195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224186195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1224186195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec is about the opposite of that < 1224186206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< feedfinder.py can't find wikipedia's rss feed < 1224186211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being the most comprehensive code i've found < 1224186212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it even have "consideration of impacts on other fingerprints" and such < 1224186233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is about 2/3 as feral as MVRS, and TRDS < 1224186236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even more < 1224186244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as feral as TRDS though < 1224186266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, current local copy is 280 lines < 1224186292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual instructions spec cover just about 60 of those < 1224186299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a bit more < 1224186322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77 actually, < 1224186327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miscalculated < 1224186365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the wait with atomic unlock/lock would be hard since it wouldn't actually be atomic on lower level :/ < 1224186378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, unable to do that without holding another lock! < 1224186418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read that as wait with atomic clock
< 1224186436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, atomic *lock* < 1224186444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are not wildcards < 1224186449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoosh* < 1224186456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are not wildcards either < 1224186467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or, as it may turn out, atomic hasp < 1224186467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224186490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since words such as "mutex" and "lock" are too common < 1224186495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need something original < 1224186510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think hasp will be best < 1224186564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read that as wasp if you want < 1224186572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no thanks < 1224186668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway if you are interested here is the current spec: http://rafb.net/p/ivz6AN26.html < 1224186714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is still under development < 1224186733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you agree it is about as far from Riley's specs as it is possible to get? < 1224186743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not erally < 1224186751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1224186760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is unclear in it? < 1224186762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waits are so rare that I'm not sure you'd get any performance problems even if you serialized that somehow. It doesn't even need to be a very global locking-thing probably. I don't know anything about Erlang concurrency (except that it's mostly passing messages around) so I won't comment about implementation-level things, though. < 1224186792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing < 1224186797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the module that allows creating locks is called "global" < 1224186831 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeees, but I guess not everyone needs to actually care about the lock? I mean "global" here in the sense of "blocking everyone who wants to initiate a wait operation and/or signal someone". < 1224186855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also the lock would need to be held when unlocking and then suspending, after which you can't unlock it any more since you are suspended < 1224186890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically < 1224187297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how the suspend/resume works, I guess. You'd need to keep that lock held until it's clear that the thread can manage to get suspended without any other thread having a chance of acquiring that hasp that was flubbrigated (ATHR-"mutex" "released") and resuming that thread before it actually managed to suspend. < 1224187336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You'd need to keep that lock held until it's clear that the thread can manage to get suspended without any other thread having a chance of acquiring that hasp that was flubbrigated" <-- never clear < 1224187355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang use a round robin scheduling that may change to another thread at any one time < 1224187360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consider SMP too... < 1224187382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I could easily wait for the message anyway < 1224187387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not like your Funge-interpreting thread would actually have to start interpreting things immediately after resuming. < 1224187389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, get it directly < 1224187417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the receive statement would just return right away < 1224187439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I guess it if doesn't have to be actually atomic < 1224187441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fine < 1224187457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what if it is woken up, just to end up waiting on a lock that is already held again? < 1224187496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, suspending and waiting for a lock to become free is basically what L does < 1224187496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you have "wait for messages" that won't actually lose messages (so it's not condition-variable-like waiting) I guess you don't need the controlling mutex there. < 1224187535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, messages don't get lost, however the thread will probably have to clean out it's mail box at some point < 1224187544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably not a problem. < 1224187552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in the main loop? < 1224187564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang mailboxes may have some size limit, not sure < 1224187571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the message queues are called < 1224187573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang < 1224187589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not hard for the Funge programmer to organize his/her threads so that it won't end up filling those. < 1224187609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the issue is that the signal would be broadcast to all threads < 1224187624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, wow. I sent an email to Aaron Swartz telling him his feed finder thing was broken an hour or so ago, and I get a response right now telling me why (their robots.txt forbids accessing it) and linking to a bug he just filed for it. < 1224187635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some quick response time. < 1224187659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I can't do that then it may actually end up loosing messages as you suggested < 1224187665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lose < 1224187669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losing* < 1224187679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I know < 1224187685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo{1,2}sing < 1224187689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I will use ;P < 1224187695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, it's still possible to organize threads so that they check all messages, although it might get to be complicated unless you happen to have a non-blocking "get my mail" thing. < 1224187715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes maybe directed signal or something < 1224187721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would need IDs for threads < 1224187728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1224187749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers
< 1224187765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it wasn't an hour ago. < 1224187773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was *10 minutes ago*. < 1224187775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mind boggles. < 1224187805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he might have been checking his email once a day and happened to check it just after you mailed < 1224187806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1224187818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but that would be some coincidence. :-P < 1224187818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a coincidence < 1224187834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He could just have a push-updates email client, you know. I do. < 1224187840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you don't have enough data points to prove it wasn't due to that < 1224187859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's odd sending an email, promptly forgetting about it, then 10 minutes noticing you have new email and seeing there's a reply already. < 1224187864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, even so I don't always actually check the client < 1224187870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I think the controlling mutex used for pthread condition variables (that is atomically unlocked by pthread_cond_wait and then reacquired when woken up) is there pretty much because of that otherwise complicated race condition where you check whether you need to wait something, start the wait, and then it just happens that the thing-you-were-waiting-for finished and the signal was sent (and lost) before the waiting thread managed to get suspended. < 1224187879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if your signals don't get lost, that problem isn't there. < 1224187926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the problem is that unless you use W in a thread existing signals will just queue up and waste memory < 1224187953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much wasted memory are you prepared to accept in a program that might run without a reboot for a decade? < 1224187967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is a common erlang question, like "how many runaway threads...") < 1224187980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since erlang is often used for extremely long running applications like that) < 1224187981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. Why isn't there a Python library to canonicalize URLs? < 1224187992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if it can be avoided by actually using W from time to time. < 1224187994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A befunge program will not run without a reboot for a decade. < 1224188000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannonicalize URLs would be funnier < 1224188000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224188006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1224188017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure? code upgrades are easy, self modifying < 1224188017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes his own
< 1224188023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe a F to flush? < 1224188032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll call it canonurl, because I am boring. < 1224188035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for 1 or 2 n- cases? < 1224188047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-// < 1224188047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can o' N < 1224188048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canonize URLs would also be good < 1224188049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URL < 1224188055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannon! < 1224188060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is much more fun < 1224188076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lethal urls < 1224188123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can "flush" it by doing something like 8y:IW pretty easily, although it's a bit wasteful. < 1224188148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("8y" just to get a thread-unique number, and maybe you'd need something to avoid conflicts with "real" wait numbers, but anyway...) < 1224188159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224188181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, except that signal would go to every process < 1224188197 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: signal / noise < 1224188198 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: let's see your code. and larceny's twobit compiler has an excuse to quit my job, and release my system too. < 1224188208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Any other queued signals before the matching one are discarded by W." < 1224188219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that makes it slightly more complex ;P < 1224188226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I was almost expecting. < 1224188235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Fungot's been running without a reboot for almost a week now. That's pretty close to a decade! < 1224188241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so maybe a true F to flush anyway < 1224188244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *nod* < 1224188259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe it's only four days. It's closer to 1 week than 0 weeks, anyway! < 1224188271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it would be longer unless it had the habit of crashing all the time.) < 1224188275 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you named your mutex stuff yet? < 1224188284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now I really must go away. < 1224188296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, no, hasp is a good idea, but what would the operations lock/release/try-lock be called for it? < 1224188313 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open/close/inspect < 1224188339 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are using those for io already... < 1224188350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is used < 1224188355 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latch/unlatch/inspect ? < 1224188378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L would work so would U, the current I make as much sense as N anyway so that would work fine < 1224188378 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta a stretchy metapohor at that point i guess < 1224188407 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the overall theme of the language? < 1224188418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, befunge-98, this is a fingerprint for it < 1224188423 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1224188432 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1224188446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and I think Befunge-98 today is a general-purpose esolang < 1224188447 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm all about the funge < 1224188456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering all the fingerprints for it < 1224188465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything from sockets to files < 1224188467 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe you were creating a new language < 1224188487 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, my .sig is in befunge-93 < 1224188512 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't learned the -98 but i have the specification < 1224188519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, ah no, I just think t in befunge isn't very useful. Befunge needs a way to take advantage of the multi-core cpus today to be a viable language in the future enterprise world! < 1224188523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1224188541 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1224188542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since t is synced so each instruction takes one tick < 1224188572 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are replacing it with a mutex? < 1224188580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, with async threads < 1224188582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact < 1224188586 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1224188592 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynch asynch asynch < 1224188596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and it will be implemented in erlang < 1224188601 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i chant at political rallies < 1224188605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a message-passing concurrent erlang < 1224188609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynch? < 1224188620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and I didn't get that joke < 1224188624 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the trailing h, so sue me < 1224188637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, my spec use the full word < 1224188639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/OINz1N69.html < 1224188647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the current draft < 1224188695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Do you guys think it's reasonable to assume people don't serve different content on http://foo.com/ to http://www.foo.com/? < 1224188696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224188713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but the www one shouldn't resolve < 1224188717 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of funge with erlang < 1224188727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it should, but it should redirect to the former. < 1224188728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the non-www seem to redirect to the www one < 1224188731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is horrible < 1224188732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'm not asking for your idealism. < 1224188754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah I usually redirect www to non-www, so that would put be in B class of no-www iirc? < 1224188754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking people who actually have a grasp on reality and pragmatism whether they think there are any examples of foo.com differing from www.foo.com. < 1224188774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grasp on reality and pragmatism? < 1224188775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know one < 1224188778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my time to shine! < 1224188779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the local municpality < 1224188781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1224188784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link? < 1224188788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep... < 1224188790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.foo.com and foo.com should actually just redirect to each other < 1224188796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.kumla.se/ < 1224188800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-www returns an error < 1224188803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oto.foo.com is where the actual content should be < 1224188814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except all the letters f, j and k should be in oko.foo.com < 1224188815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 403 Forbidden to be exact < 1224188817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1224188820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for one, that's simply removed. < 1224188824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad i could help < 1224188825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is pretty wtfish :P < 1224188859 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this excluding the cases where www. doesn't even exist? < 1224188873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, I think so < 1224188882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen a few sites like that < 1224188903 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-www.org says 38,000 domains < 1224188911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-www doesn't load here < 1224188916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a white page < 1224188917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224188922 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor here, I checked google's cache :) < 1224188970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra-www loads though < 1224188976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc someone from this channel made it < 1224188982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR maybe? Not sure < 1224189053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can't recall any case where both exist but have different content < 1224189094 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of news.com.com < 1224189097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't count the example I gave? < 1224189131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's common for one or the other to give an error < 1224189148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 403 forbidden too? < 1224189172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: many sites give 403 when they mean 404 < 1224189182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for security reasons, I suspect < 1224189183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that makes no sense < 1224189196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wouldn't it be more secure to give 404 for all instead? < 1224189219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good point < 1224189227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't know why < 1224189234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for instance http://users.tkk.fi/mniemenm/foo is a 403 < 1224189245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and it is a 404 really? < 1224189257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can assure you my public_html directory doesn't contain a file called foo which you're not allowed to read :-P < 1224189263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe it is 403 as in "directory listing forbidden"? < 1224189285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would that make sense < 1224189285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224189299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would only make sense for a directory indeed < 1224189762 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224189798 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224189975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many sites where the non-www. one is broken. < 1224190017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ran across one today too. < 1224190019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my sites always redirect www one to non-www < 1224190052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first redirect in lighttpd.conf < 1224190066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally, for all vhosts < 1224190117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/ZtV0Tn90.html < 1224190121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the current version < 1224190135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1224190140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should say no parameters for F < 1224190175 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224190195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually both the www and non-www ones for the site I ran across now say "We are making big updates on the server Web services will be up and running later today." -- maybe they'll get that fixed too. < 1224190302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, your draft warning was nice < 1224190302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I was < 1224190305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPLEMENTING it < 1224190311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its only a draft?! < 1224190312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omgwtfbbq! < 1224190362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brings sausages
< 1224190380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah hah < 1224190429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also writing specs for funge have taught me one thing: Better try to state things you think everyone would understand < 1224190433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone won't < 1224190435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1224190451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so state things explicitly < 1224190457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C instruction should indicate what happened somehow. I think usually (at least CMPXCHG) it just returns the current value that was there in the cell, so you can just use a "C-|" sequence (if you had the "value to compare to" under the params in the stack) to see whether it did the swap or not. < 1224190467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thanks, I forgot that < 1224190506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why -? < 1224190516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather just using a w there < 1224190519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: equality comparison... < 1224190519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be better < 1224190527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w might go up or down. < 1224190528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w's are annoying because you need to handle 3 cases < 1224190536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with -| or -_ it's 2 < 1224190561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it could indicate by reflecting too if you're more into that; a boolean yes/no is strictly speaking enough. Although then it's not actually compare-and-*swap*. < 1224190562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yeah, but | or _ checks for "equal to zero/different from zero" < 1224190581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1224190583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224190585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1224190588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, so with - you get "top two are equal" < 1224190592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah updated spec have it < 1224190650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about C reflecting if current cell isn't equal? < 1224190667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in C failed < 1224190673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask fizzie, I don't even know what you're talking about :-P < 1224190684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should call it "compare and set" then, but other than that it should be fine. < 1224190696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reflects if replace failed, pushing the existing (unchanged value on stack). < 1224190699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's not "exchange" if you don't get the old value back. < 1224190705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it also pushes the old value < 1224190709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is successful < 1224190741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.www.extra-www.org/ is my site. < 1224190741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can do that too, but then most people will probably just follow it with $ since the reflection is what interests people. Usually. I guess in some cases the old value is interesting too. < 1224190761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should probably know it < 1224190763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hm < 1224190770 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224190771 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1224190771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so that is a bad idea then? < 1224190789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no reflect? < 1224190804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a real opinion; it's just a matter of a couple of characters, anyway. As long as it indicates at least somehow whether it failed or not. < 1224190812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: That arson news site, why does it actually use it? < 1224190821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think why you'd be crazy enough to, you know, actually do it. < 1224190823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uppercased instructions seem to reflect a whole lot, though. < 1224190823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what sould it push if it fails then? < 1224190850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's called "exchange", it should probably in all cases push the value that was there, even if it did not actually set it to whatever you wanted. < 1224190866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, lowercased instructions just invoke undefined behaviour ;-) < 1224190867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1224190867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224190893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true, and so does Riley's upper case ones too < 1224190941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd probably just make it either always push the old value and not reflect (so that people will do -| after it) or simply reflect without pushing the old value (but call it compare-and-set, then, it should be just as powerful, though maybe not quite as convenient -- can't think of use cases right now). < 1224190959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok < 1224190968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convenience has never been very high on funge-people's priorities, though. < 1224190969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224190970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag < 1224190989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better now < 1224191018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I go for the exchange one < 1224191036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I think reflect is more convenient ;P < 1224191227 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Do you know, pikhq? < 1224191253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever made a programming language based on text formatting? Well apart from ColourForth but that doesn't really count since it is just colours, not full formatting, like text size < 1224191260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should probably use odf format < 1224191298 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text formatting? < 1224191308 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TeX? < 1224191322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no as in the formatting affected what the code meant < 1224191332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like colours do in ColorForth < 1224191338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colourforth. < 1224191339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224191348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "Well apart from ColourForth but that doesn't really count since it is just colours, not full formatting, like text size" < 1224191353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. You're wrong. :) < 1224191358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after fizzie's idea < 1224191363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like @, only really big" < 1224191364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ColourForth can be presented in non-colour version. < 1224191375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Chuck wrote a paper about it using italics/underline/bold. < 1224191378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do text size too. < 1224191382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1224191518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another style thing: in the "ATHR vs. REFC" the wording, while technically speaking correct, maybe a bit needlessly complicated. The REFC reference numbers don't really matter, so it probably doesn't matter if they're given out first-come-first-served or something stranger, you could just say they're global and need to work without explicit synchronization of requests. < 1224191529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it could be just me nitpicking here. < 1224191557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good idea < 1224191565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks for the comments < 1224191669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should I attribute you with your real name or your nick in "thanks to"? < 1224191697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same question goes to Deewiant < 1224191736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously you've used my name, I guess; I typically use both < 1224191738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm never good in deciding that. Maybe real name, so prospective employers will know I do all kinds of sensible and profitable things with my time. < 1224191753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I used your name after asking you iirc < 1224191754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already got one summer job because of my Befunge skills. < 1224191764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? huh? < 1224191772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of summer job? < 1224191778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl-writing. :p < 1224191790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh well I can see the logic in that yeah < 1224191810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I'm not entirely sure the Befunge thing had anything to do with it, but the subject came up in the interview and the people seemed at least curious about it, if not outright interested. < 1224191845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had "esoteric programming languages" listed as a hobby in my CV since the template had a section titled like that.) < 1224191883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The company was Nokia; you may have heard of it.) < 1224191907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's that mobile phone maker everyone thinks is Japanese. :p) < 1224191913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nokia? Huh? < 1224191915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are they? < 1224191976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know it is Finnish < 1224191978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1224191984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a nokia phone even < 1224191993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says 2600 < 1224191994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on i < 1224191995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1224191995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1224192002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a mobile phone? < 1224192014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224192016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2100 < 1224192029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I guess most people know that, but it's an old joke that Finland's most successful company has a faux-Japanese-sounding name.) < 1224192031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried google? < 1224192033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote you < 1224192043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224192046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... uh, what's google? < 1224192060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i must look like an idiot < 1224192060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1224192075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Don't they make wheels too iirc? < 1224192109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how comes you didn't get that summer job? < 1224192112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no no, just an amnesiac < 1224192118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224192123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh? I did get it. < 1224192140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry, read it as "almost" < 1224192144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "already" < 1224192179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's Nokian. _entirely_ different. < 1224192210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh ok < 1224192221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got very similar names < 1224192229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tires and boots were part of the same Nokia company back then in the 1960s. < 1224192231 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224192242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but they split up after? < 1224192244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boots? < 1224192247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1224192251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the tires bit < 1224192252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubber boots. < 1224192256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for rainy days. < 1224192267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, but I use a Swedish brand < 1224192289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ericsso boots < 1224192298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait may be Danish < 1224192301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH is what it says < 1224192305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Danish isn't it? < 1224192351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats AnMaster ----###
< 1224192352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the tire-manufacturing part was split from the telecommunications part in 1988. < 1224192360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian, in fact < 1224192377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helly Hansen, is it? < 1224192382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh ok < 1224192383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1224192385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helly_Hansen < 1224192387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah < 1224192404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i wasn't sure myself until i googled < 1224192406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have something of theirs to wear on the sailboat; good for that sort of thing. < 1224192413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1224192421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan for swatting then
< 1224192452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Nokian or HH? < 1224192482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH. And not boots; some sort of jacket. < 1224192492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Nokia has done rubber boots for ages now. < 1224192504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not really sure. < 1224192521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they still do. < 1224192543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nokianfootwear.fi/eng < 1224192544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH does "flytväst" too < 1224192552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what the name is for that in English < 1224192555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating suite? < 1224192562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating jacket < 1224192563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1224192565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1224192583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life-vest if you mean the safety gear. < 1224192630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1224192648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it is less than that and more like light weight, meant for sailing < 1224192659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually called a "seglarväst" < 1224192696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, then it's more like fi:kelluntaliivi (floatation vest), distinct from fi:pelastusliivi (rescue vest) which is the more heavy-duty thing. < 1224192712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, exactly < 1224192716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how the official definitions go. < 1224192723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "flytväst" is the heavy duty ones < 1224192734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing I was thinking about was the lightweight ones < 1224192738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1224192752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I got one of those lightweight ones somewhere < 1224192760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224192765 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224192820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CE authorization thing defines the life-vest one to be something that turns you on your back and keeps the head above the water even if you're completely unconscious, while the lightweight one just helps you float if you're still operational and know how to swim. < 1224192991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I know how to swim well, during the summer I often swim 2 km every other day for exercise < 1224192996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling of last word?) < 1224193017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exercise is fine. < 1224193024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1224193029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spelling, I mean. I think the practice sounds somewhat unhealthy. < 1224193042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that fresh air. < 1224193045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be good for you. < 1224193058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seconds that
< 1224193118 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224193138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I think it is better for me than being indoors all the time < 1224193140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1224193153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had health problems from that before, so I decided to avoid that < 1224193285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Deewiant : http://rafb.net/p/2zsIOB88.html < 1224193287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments? < 1224193289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else too? < 1224193317 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1224193324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you got comments? < 1224193405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much draft. fresh air, remember? < 1224193418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gah < 1224193496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh btw I pondered adding a section near the end called "ATHR and the effects on modern society" with the text "Not a lot." < 1224193518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the systematic "parameters, return value, reflection info" format, it's very fastidious. < 1224193529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles fastidious
< 1224193538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. (2) fastidious -- (giving careful attention to detail; hard to please; excessively concerned with cleanliness; "a fastidious and incisive intellect"; "fastidious about personal cleanliness") < 1224193542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First sense. < 1224193561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "excessively concerned with cleanliness"; if you are, I don't know about it. < 1224193563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I missed it for the two last instructions < 1224193566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1224193581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what about "incisive"? < 1224193592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fits all three, he thinks
< 1224193603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at one time or another < 1224193607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's pretty much the same thing as "keen". < 1224193614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224193618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that is me < 1224193621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a fastidious and incisive intellect" < 1224193684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're so humble. < 1224193702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it does have a secondary meaning of "suitable for cutting"; incision is, after all, a cut. < 1224193706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was a joke < 1224193711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So was mine. < 1224193727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was sarcasm? < 1224193734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no ~, sorry < 1224193751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was sarcasm, which was a joke. < 1224193752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is it "signaled" or "signalled"? < 1224193759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different spelling programs want different there < 1224193761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!??????? < 1224193784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"signaled" is the US spelling, I think. < 1224193785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalled < 1224193790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah thanks < 1224193802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I use UK spelling when possible < 1224193823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK spelling tends to be the one with more letters. :p < 1224193835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure there are exceptions, though.) < 1224193933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least center/centre has the same length. But it works for aluminum/aluminium and all kinds of .*or/.*our things. < 1224193958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ize/ise? < 1224193966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, those have the same length. < 1224193968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is .* of course in front < 1224193982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yse/yze < 1224193986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224194007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is center or centre UK? < 1224194018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centre. < 1224194019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three standards: ise/yse, ize/yze, ize/yse < 1224194065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't aluminum/aluminium on that "lamest wikipedia edit wars" page? At least I remember looking at the article talk page one day and marvelling (again also US marveling) at the amount of talk about the name. < 1224194110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems they moved it to a separate page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aluminium/Spelling < 1224194143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a 116-kilobyte page. Of course some HTML overhead, but still. < 1224194186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you really want en-us and en-uk wikipedias < 1224194194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe en-au and so on too < 1224194195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/uk/gb/ < 1224194205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1224194225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do they differ though? < 1224194261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great britain is the island < 1224194271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and UK? < 1224194280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the country < 1224194283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I probably meant UK then < 1224194298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UK of GB and Northern Ireland" < 1224194305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes exactly < 1224194357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fizzie: so any comments on this version: http://rafb.net/p/tUcpyC58.html < 1224194360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two things left: < 1224194368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename mutexes to maybe hasps < 1224194371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something even better < 1224194383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second issue: < 1224194392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear up the [TODO: ...] comment < 1224194396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some thinking about < 1224194416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and would this be something you would ever consider implementing? < 1224194421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not: why not? < 1224194450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. If not: because it'd require too many changes all over the place < 1224194462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrency in imperative languages is a bit of a pain < 1224194468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mediawiki is complicated; I had to use http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminium/Spelling&action=raw to fetch the raw page source (265040 bytes) because just adding ?action=raw to the end of the URL gave me a "Raw pages must be accessed through the primary script entry point." error. < 1224194481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have any comments left, but I'll take a peek. < 1224194522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather go the async-MVRS route for concurrency as I'm still not sure whether ATHR is actually useful at all. < 1224194529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhoo < 1224194532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <*> bed
< 1224194536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok < 1224194554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for that error, how comes they detected the ?action bit at all < 1224194561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they did they could just have served that < 1224194573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that makes no sense < 1224194579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd probably have used ATHR if I were writing fungot now, but I don't think I'd have gone the MVRS route. Although I guess I could have. < 1224194579 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in that sentence < 1224194590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. #notes-to-ehird. In which I am going to let you make my computer say things < 1224194592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With amazing text to speech technology < 1224194594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be amazing. Probably < 1224194611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1224194635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran all my IRC though the "amazing" OS 7.5.5 text-to-speech facility once for some.. hmm, maybe dozen hours. < 1224194642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to turn it off after that. < 1224194662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1224194666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it wasn't 7.5.5; really don't remember. < 1224194710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was 7.5.5; isn't that the latest version Apple is giving out? At least at some point there was 7.5.3 plus the 7.5.5 update available for downloading. < 1224194714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think OS 8 had it at least < 1224194718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite possible < 1224194725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pre-8, though. < 1224194747 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5 had text2speech < 1224194750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224194760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, any comments on http://rafb.net/p/tUcpyC58.html ? < 1224194772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : concurrency in imperative languages is a bit of a pain <-- well, not my problem < 1224194786 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was there before the beveled progress bars < 1224194789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the "the light that you see at the end of the tunnel is the headlights of a fast approaching train" test phrase the 'bad news' voice spoke. :p < 1224194811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that, anyway. < 1224194815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hehe < 1224194823 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it looks pretty good, i'm going to take a better look in a sec < 1224194826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, most of those voices were horrible < 1224194834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, in a sec I may be asleep < 1224194848 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll have to comment another time :) < 1224194858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, I do read scrollback < 1224194866 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new to the channel but im already a big fan < 1224194874 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to see befunge gets so much love < 1224194894 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how finished the befunge implementation on parrot is? < 1224194901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did Befunge before I ran across Brainfuck; it holds a special place in my heart. < 1224194903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, it is actually one of the more easy-to-use languages < 1224194908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for esoteric ones < 1224194909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1224194919 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah definitely < 1224194935 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus its just such a damn cool concept < 1224194944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, what about trefunge then? < 1224194947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6-funge < 1224194951 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried em < 1224194957 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, im new < 1224194958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unefunge maybe? < 1224194968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one-dimensional < 1224194972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trefunge is 3D < 1224194979 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of topogrphical programming is awesome < 1224194983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6-funge would be 6-dimensional < 1224194996 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i've heard about them but i havent tried them < 1224195009 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been able to get cfunge to compile on this os x box < 1224195009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so is it equal to a donut or a coffee cup? < 1224195009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224195022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, oh? what error? < 1224195027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled cfunge on OS X some time ago. < 1224195030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking error is fixed in current bzr < 1224195038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember if it is in last release < 1224195046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway I suspect fizzie is better at helping there < 1224195047 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224195049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I use Linux < 1224195050 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the link error < 1224195057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, about bad flags? < 1224195061 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1224195077 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check that out < 1224195084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, look for < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#SET_TARGET_PROPERTIES(cfunge PROPERTIES < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# LINK_FLAGS "-Wl,-O1,--as-needed,--warn-common" < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#) < 1224195095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there won't be # in front < 1224195101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding # will fix it for now < 1224195107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what current bzr head looks like < 1224195123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, that would be in CMakeLists.txt < 1224195140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got it to compile myself recently when I had access to a mac for a bit < 1224195145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was bzr version too < 1224195166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, normally I just work on Linux and FreeBSD < 1224195188 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer nixen as well < 1224195196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224195200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X is *nix < 1224195204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad but true < 1224195209 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, yes i know < 1224195223 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION meant foss nixen
< 1224195226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually my OS X laptop is not online right now and I can't be bothered to start it up to test things; but the issues were pretty simple ones. < 1224195229 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take the f < 1224195298 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice that worked like a charm < 1224195306 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to work folks, i will ttyl < 1224195335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, incidentally... does the 's' instruction also then skip the character it wrote, like ' skips the character it read? < 1224195346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes afaik < 1224195362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has to, since the spec says it's "mirror image of the ' instruction". < 1224195410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought it'd be more useful as a "execute from stack" instruction and not a "stick a character right here" one, although obviously you can then just route the code flow through it < 1224195444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suggest RC/Funge EXEC then < 1224195472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it executes from stack < 1224195483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really haven't had use for execute-from-stack yet, just wondering. < 1224195485 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224195504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't thing fungot does any self-modification whatsoever, which is pretty bad style in a Funge program I guess. < 1224195504 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: depends on how much faster but any reasonable amount wouldn't help much < 1224195531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it makes it easier to generate those messy graphs. :p < 1224195560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that a good thing? < 1224195619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think the graph looked nice. I still want to give it to someone asking for office supplies or something and say "here's our process for doing that". < 1224195632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks very enterprisey. < 1224195707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it compile the funge in the brackets to Java < 1224195707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or UML < 1224195713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brackets=bubbles < 1224195862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it possible to print it out? < 1224196118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can print it scaled to fit on an A4 paper on a 600dpi laser printer so that you can _almost_ make out the labels; even read quite a large part of them if you squint real hard. < 1224196128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an A3-sized paper it should be reasonably legible. < 1224196149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe on A4 too with enough tweaking of Graphviz font parameters. There's quite a lot of empty space in them bubbles. < 1224196317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is http://www.websiteoptimization.com/about/ so faaaaaast < 1224196489 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224196620 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1224196667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re MVRS, I assume the "Big-Bang" instruction won't create any IPs in it? Since it's still empty and everything. So if MVRS's G/J are not well defined when ATHR is in use, a ATHR/MVRS combination will be pretty hard to use. (Not that interpreting current G/J is much more than guesswork right now.) < 1224197184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224197203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone invent a pgp-based method to roll an N-sided dice between two people over irc :3 < 1224197224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you can just run it and paste the resulting string to roll < 1224197235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other person can verify the number you say was made properly randomly < 1224197237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...something < 1224197238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1224197319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you do it < 1224197337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just write a spec i guess. i can write code. but if you do not do it i will rip your eyeballs out < 1224197375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is so good at motivation < 1224197401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. In principle you don't really need much for that: just require some suitable amount of input data from both participants, then compute a suitable SHA-512 hash (or some such) of the concatenation and take the result modulo N. Neither participant can then force the result to be what they want, as long as (key point) they both commit to their strings in advance before seeing the other one. < 1224197429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can do the commit-to-one-string by requiring both participants to publish the hash of their piece of input in advance. < 1224197447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: suitable input data = /dev/random? < 1224197449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that work? < 1224197481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it'd be something like "pgproll 10", paste the output (which I guess would be "rolled number (magic key thing)") < 1224197481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably as good as you can get. Or "openssl rand". < 1224197489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1224197490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe: < 1224197502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alice rolling, bob verifying: < 1224197511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224197518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does yours support the model i'm thinking of? < 1224197529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of 2 people playing a dice-based game over irc < 1224197535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and person A being the dice roller < 1224197551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both need to do some part of the rolling to prevent cheating < 1224197556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they want person B to be able to verify that the dice rolls aren't being forged < 1224197556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1224197565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not directly; there's the need for both participants to publish the input hashes first, and then their input strings. After that both participants can verify the result, which will be random. < 1224197571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes... that's the problem :-P < 1224197597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does that verify that you didn't just modify the program to pick the number you tell it to? < 1224197641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the point with both choosing part of the number is that then neither than cheat successfully without the cooperation of the other < 1224197651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, right < 1224197658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyone can just compute the hash of those two concatenated inputs and check what the result of the roll is. < 1224197670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224197672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously nothing's preventing you from lying and saying "I got a natural 20". < 1224197673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do that by: < 1224197681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :person A says 0-6 < 1224197682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1224197684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-5 < 1224197685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :person B says 0-5 < 1224197689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add them together, there's your roll < 1224197690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224197695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, then person B can decide. < 1224197701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1224197704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need both A and B to commit on their number before revealing it. < 1224197717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore they need to publish the hashes of their selections first. < 1224197718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the commit has to happen simultaneously too, to avoid cheating < 1224197729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its not hard to bruteforce 6 possibilities) < 1224197743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might as well just figure out a way to do that, then just apply it to the number 0-5 < 1224197747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to bruteforce what the input will be, if it's something like a kilobyte. < 1224197773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, true. < 1224197784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still...Currently this requires _five irc messages_ < 1224197786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a checks both numbers, sums them) < 1224197799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result < 1224197805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's...hideously unwieldy < 1224197808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, A doesn't really need to announce the number. < 1224197816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both participants know it already after four messages. < 1224197823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that's still four messages.) < 1224197859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually doesn't need to reveal the hash. he can do the number first < 1224197862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the point of having one person doing a dice roll is that they do all the work :-P < 1224197873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, true < 1224197874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224197876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sum < 1224197879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1224197883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. still quite unwieldy < 1224197886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. harder to check for b < 1224197896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he has to subtract number from sum, then check it matches hash, etc) < 1224197907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224197910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be automated with a webservice < 1224197915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i..think < 1224197918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1224197923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need pgp in your browser < 1224197926 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224197946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use a trusted third party to do all the work. That's what normal people would do. :p < 1224197962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a dice-rolling bot by that one unrelated guy, let's just use that." < 1224198056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you'll get to less than those three messages there with only the two people who don't trust each other. < 1224198106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bit of scripting three would not be too bad. < 1224198120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is no such thing as a trusted third party. < 1224198121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224198139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'trusted third party' is exactly the problem with security today. < 1224198192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "/roll 20" command which will do I want to roll a d20, my hash is <...>; then a "/answer" command from b which will do " okay, my [1, 20] random number is "; and finally a "/foo" command for a which will do " the dice roll result was ". < 1224198211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And b's script will add a "[verified]" message after that last line if it is okay. < 1224198225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I couldn't think of reasonable command names, sorry. :p < 1224198256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : needs to include salt, doesn't it < 1224198279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but the point is if you can modify clients its a solved problem < 1224198280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er 's last one < 1224198286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1224198294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The challenge is making it work over basic protocols we already have. < 1224198310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1224198313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found a program to do it < 1224198346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you can't just hash A's number. But it's easy to hash that and a bit of randomness, and include the randomness in the last message. < 1224198362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1224198370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to, just check A's first message < 1224198389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, A can't hash just the number: there's too few alternatives. < 1224198421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224198421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224198430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/secroll.py did this, but it appears to be totally broken. < 1224198433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me write a program that works. < 1224198433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec. < 1224198438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WE CAN TEST IT TOGETHER < 1224198439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1224198453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we can't: I'm going to sleep in 5 minutes. < 1224198480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1224198484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to take me 5 minutes to write it. :-P < 1224198569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to take me 5 minutes to get to sleep, either. < 1224198595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a hairy man going to come here tomorrow at 08 (in 7 hours) to install a faucet, I need to be mentally prepared for it. < 1224198601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, the hairiness is still speculation.) < 1224198754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1224198756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 10 bits of randomness is reasonable < 1224198825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just n*1024 numbers to hash before finding out what A's number was, for a n-sided dice. < 1224198837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. True. < 1224198851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, how many would you suggest? 1000? :P < 1224198890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1224198896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be a small amount, since it will be revealed over irc. < 1224199116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem there is that you can just precompute all the possible hash values; so it should be sufficiently large that 256*2^n bits is too much to store. < 1224199160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, 10^25 megabytes is too much to store. < 1224199170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, even more than that. < 1224199181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.86856262 * 10^25, even, sez google. < 1224199199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean, 1000 is more than enough. But 10 is not. < 1224199226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant that it's not only the speed-to-bruteforce (after all, _that_ just needs to be a minute or so) since it can be precomputed. < 1224199245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 50 bits would suffice; that's 10 base64-encoded characters, not a long string. Or 60, two more characters doesn't make a difference. < 1224199292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about 100, btw. < 1224199302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, didn't bother to check. < 1224199347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 bits of randomness already means 64k terabytes of hashes even for a two-sided "die". < 1224199352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep now, anyway. < 1224199369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1224199375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. Have fun rolling dice. < 1224199399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall. < 1224199399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224199994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1224200374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: openssl question < 1224200380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1224200385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you use "openssl rand" to generate a random number from 0 to N? < 1224200393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not great expert but I'll try < 1224200396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimum you can get is one byte, i.e. 0-255 < 1224200405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just moduloing that or something seems...stupid < 1224200432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems indeed to generate random bytes < 1224200439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I got no idea if it is possible < 1224200474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224200484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using modulo should work if you make sure that (255 * number of bytes) % the max number you want == 0 < 1224200489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should still be uniform < 1224200495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw night < 1224200496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, number of bytes = 1. < 1224200497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1224200500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also night. < 1224200545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Re MVRS, I assume the "Big-Bang" instruction won't create any IPs in it? Since it's still empty and everything. So if MVRS's G/J are not well defined when ATHR is in use, a ATHR/MVRS combination will be pretty hard to use. (Not that interpreting current G/J is much more than guesswork right now.) < 1224200552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly for the latter point < 1224200557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just defined what I could < 1224201381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yay, roll.py is almost done < 1224201438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1224201439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really