←2008-10-12 2008-10-13 2008-10-14→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:00:18 <GregorR> http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/util/textgen.java
00:20:07 <g0bl1n> GregorR, how can i run it ? linux here
00:38:08 <GregorR> ... it's Java.
00:48:06 <g0bl1n> i try to run it with gij-4.1 but get an error
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01:44:50 <g0bl1n> GregorR, the textgen.java gets results worst then me :)
01:49:15 <g0bl1n> mine: 141 bytes. textgen, till now: 159
01:55:56 <g0bl1n> GregorR, thank you
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02:09:29 <pikhq> God, I'm a glutton for punishment. I'm remerging my system to change my CFLAGS.
02:23:43 <GregorR> You're using Gentoo? You're right, you are a glutton for punishment.
02:23:53 <GregorR> You enjoy that immeasurably tiny speedup though.
02:43:57 <pikhq> Generally I don't care much about the CFLAGS...
02:44:29 <pikhq> For some reason, I have recently come of the opinion that -Os instead of -O2 will be faster (due to my small cache and slow hard drive), though.
02:45:04 <pikhq> And figured 'well, -Os is one of those CFLAGS that's actually sane to use, and it's not like recompiling is that big of a deal; why not?'
02:45:20 <pikhq> Then I started the whole thing, and realised that that'll take a few days.
02:50:29 <GregorR> ¿˙
02:50:29 <GregorR> O <(Look, it's iChat on IRC!)
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07:36:20 <AnMaster> ais523, there?
07:36:29 <AnMaster> ais523, seems c-intercal was added to portage(!)
07:39:29 <pikhq> !!!
07:40:02 <pikhq> Congrats, ais523.
07:40:45 <pikhq> And AnMaster, congrats on having an ebuild in Portage.
07:44:30 <AnMaster> in other news I had to hit reset button first thing this morning
07:44:34 <AnMaster> even sysrq was dead
07:44:51 <AnMaster> that is on the computer with the bnc
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09:54:17 <AnMaster> optbot
09:54:17 <optbot> AnMaster: nothing really
09:54:18 <AnMaster> optbot!
09:54:19 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hm?.
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10:26:39 <oklocod> o
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11:51:13 <oklopol> now that i actually read how subleq works, i gotta wonder, can't you traverse memory?
11:51:44 <oklopol> basically, to construct a list, you will need to encode it in a register using some weird modulo system?
11:51:57 <oklopol> that basically means the memory is mostly useless computationally
11:52:10 <oklopol> you could just as easily have just one memory cell
11:52:36 <oklopol> GregorR: you're the expert, perhaps you'll tell me where i went wrong
11:52:50 <oerjan> um you just use pointers, one per cell?
11:53:37 <oklopol> but aren't all commands just a list of absolute references to the memory?
11:53:53 <oerjan> yes. but the commands are modifiable.
11:53:54 <oklopol> Subleq is a simple one instruction language. Each subleq instruction has 3 operands:
11:53:54 <oklopol> A B C
11:53:54 <oklopol> which are memory addresses. Execution of one instruction A B C subtracts the value of memory in A from the content of memory in B. If value after subtraction in B less or equal to zero, then execution jumps to the address C; otherwise to the next instruction.
11:53:58 <oklopol> oh!
11:54:21 <fizzie> "The instructions themselves reside in memory as a sequence of such integers."
11:54:36 <oklopol> thank you, although that was so obvious i should technically kill everyone of you
11:54:43 <oklopol> yes.
11:55:24 <oklopol> i read just the beginning, i like to get confused, ask, and let others read the rest of the text for me.
11:57:39 <oklopol> now i kinda wanna play with that
11:57:45 <fizzie> Is there a good way of commenting Befunge? I'd like to have some sort of system which would let me attach comments to arbitrary sets of funge-space locations, and then when I edit the file to move things around the comments should move too.
11:58:17 <oklopol> as in, some kinda befunge gui?
11:58:28 <oklopol> or just befunge editor
11:58:31 <oklopol> lieek
11:59:19 <fizzie> I would be reasonably content with a simple editor. Either graphical or curses-style, although I guess a GUI thing would have more options for indicating the presence of comments.
12:00:08 <oklopol> well you could have them float around, you know, and perhaps tell you what exactly you're looking at as you're glancing through the code
12:00:22 <oklopol> more like a friend than an editor really.
12:00:41 <oklopol> i have a "lecture", see you ->
12:05:22 <fizzie> FungeFriend might be a good name for a Befunge IDE.
12:05:38 <fizzie> Or maybe it sounds too much like a fungal infection?
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12:16:10 <oklocod> fungefriend sounds nice
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13:50:54 <ehird> ais523:
13:52:19 <ehird> He be offline.
13:52:20 <ehird> Oddly.
13:56:25 <ehird> lost the game
14:02:21 <AnMaster> ehird, I wonder where he is too
14:02:30 <ehird> AnMaster: Doing things other than talking on IRC>
14:02:33 <ehird> Just a hunch.
14:02:40 <AnMaster> well yeah probably...
14:02:52 <ehird> Sometimes people do things. :P
14:03:25 <AnMaster> well all the time
14:03:38 <ehird> Quite.
14:04:13 <AnMaster> even if nothing else, as long as you are alive, you perform the action of existing.
14:04:33 <ehird> Oh shut up.
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14:05:13 <AnMaster> and probably one of sit, stand, walk, crawl, lie (and so on)..
14:05:21 <AnMaster> s/\.$//
14:07:50 <ehird> oh man
14:07:52 <ehird> add-art
14:07:54 <ehird> what a great extension
14:07:56 <ehird> it replaces ads with art
14:08:06 <ehird> why didn't I think of that?
14:08:15 <ehird> http://add-art.org/
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14:15:59 <AnMaster> ehird, art as in famous paintings?
14:16:08 <ehird> Not sure.
14:16:22 <ehird> It does have it on the site, you know, but I haven't checked it out.
14:16:27 <AnMaster> the pic on the main page seems to just replace it with the text art
14:16:40 <ehird> That was an example.
14:16:45 <ehird> also, rbrb.
14:16:58 <AnMaster> rbrb?
14:17:05 <AnMaster> really be back soon?
14:17:27 <AnMaster> really be right back I meant
14:17:40 <AnMaster> or maybe rather
14:21:44 <ehird> i am green
14:46:49 <oklocod> i'm black
14:46:54 <ehird> racis
14:46:54 <ehird> t
14:47:11 <oklocod> i'm not talking about skin color
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14:47:19 <oklopol> unlike you
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16:04:38 <oklopol> riddle of the day
16:04:50 <oklopol> four fish, one is green, the other is yellow, what's 2+2?
16:04:58 <oklopol> it's harder than you think
16:10:36 <ehird> oklopol: 4
16:11:00 <oklopol> no, try again
16:11:17 <ehird> oklopol: 5
16:11:25 <oklopol> no
16:11:29 <ehird> oklopol: fish
16:11:35 <oklopol> no
16:11:41 <ehird> oklopol: 2+2
16:11:44 <oklopol> NO
16:11:45 <ehird> haha
16:11:46 <ehird> got you ther
16:11:46 <ehird> e
16:11:48 <ehird> :(
16:11:51 <ehird> oklopol: NO
16:11:55 <oklopol> THIS RIDDLE HAS NO ANSWER, STOP ANSWERING
16:12:07 <ehird> oklopol: NO
16:12:25 <oklopol> i'm aiming for a boy-who-cried the wolf situation. for the next N days i'm going to give you a riddle, each more ridiculous than the next
16:12:26 <oklopol> but
16:12:46 <ehird> oklopol: but??
16:12:50 <oklopol> one of them, is actually so great, so deep, that if you actually tried to solve it, you'd absolutely love it
16:12:56 <oklopol> you'd go craaaaazy
16:12:59 <oklopol> you know
16:13:01 <oklopol> in a good way
16:13:02 <ehird> oklopol: i'll do it
16:13:09 <oklopol> but no one will ever know which one it is
16:13:19 <ehird> oklopol: i will ASSEMBLE A COMMITTEE TO SOLVE IT
16:13:45 <oklopol> because to be able to find out which one is the great one, you'd have to try and solve all of them, which is kinda stupid, because most of the time you'd just be searching for nothing.
16:13:53 <oklopol> committee?!?
16:13:55 <ehird> oklopol: but committee
16:13:58 <oklopol> oh my god
16:14:02 <ehird> oklopol: yeah
16:14:03 <ehird> oklopol: ha
16:14:05 <oklopol> you have just defeated me
16:14:06 <ehird> oklopol: i have defeated you
16:14:07 <ehird> what now
16:14:08 <ehird> ha
16:14:09 <ehird> see
16:14:10 <ehird> we agree
16:14:12 <oklopol> :D
16:14:13 <ehird> so much for THAT IDEA
16:14:22 <oklopol> fuck it, i'm gonna get a real job
16:14:29 <ehird> ;\
16:19:25 <ehird> oklopol: does anyone play the counter any more
16:21:00 <oklopol> ehird: i don't know, because i don't.
16:21:05 <ehird> :D
16:21:08 <ehird> when did you las tplay
16:21:46 <oklopol> not sure
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16:24:17 <ehird> oklopol: 5 years ago??????
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16:38:36 <oklopol> ehird: no, you silly gangster
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16:53:30 <ehird> hi ais523
16:57:40 <ais523> hi ehird
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17:00:34 <Slereah_> "Unchurched" or "The Unchurched" or "unchurched people" is defined by the Barna Group as "an adult (18 or older) who has not attended a Christian church service within the past six months" excluding special services such as Easter, Christmas, weddings or funerals.Barna reports there are 75 million "unchurched people" in the United States as of 2004.
17:00:44 <Slereah_> And me using it to mean convert lambdas into numbers!
17:01:10 <ais523> anyway, I have several hundred emails to read through
17:01:16 <ais523> so I'm likely to be uncommunicative for a bit
17:01:32 <ais523> AnMaster: I got your /query though, I'll make sure it's fixed before the release
17:02:15 <Slereah_> http://img.4chan.org/r9k/src/1223888838875.jpg
17:02:20 <Slereah_> That Joe Biden sure can yield logic
17:02:45 <AnMaster> ais523, oh and c-intercal got into portage
17:03:37 <ais523> yes, I noticed
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18:40:54 <AnMaster> ais523, so you left again?
18:40:56 <AnMaster> oh well
18:41:03 <ais523> no, I'm still here
18:41:09 <ais523> just busy catching up on email
18:41:23 <AnMaster> * [ais523] is away (Gone away for now.)
18:41:25 * AnMaster shrugs
18:41:33 <ais523> stupid away checker
18:41:36 <AnMaster> ais523, also how can you get that much email?
18:41:42 <ais523> AnMaster: being subscribed to three nomics
18:41:54 <AnMaster> ais523, maybe that isn't a good thing :P
18:42:04 <AnMaster> ais523, also, what ones?
18:42:13 <ais523> Agora, B Nomic, FRC
18:42:19 <ais523> I'm also in two others, but they aren't email nomics
18:43:10 <AnMaster> ais523, I think you may be too much active what that if it takes so much of your free time
18:43:38 <ais523> it doesn't, just a few hours every Monday to catch up on the weekend
18:44:02 <AnMaster> ais523, how goes gcc-bf btw?
18:44:29 <ais523> stalled
18:44:32 <ais523> while I do other things
18:44:38 <AnMaster> ah stil.
18:44:39 <AnMaster> still*
18:44:40 <ais523> I was working on C-INTERCAL a bit recently, though
18:44:44 <ais523> let me push the changes
18:44:51 <AnMaster> ais523, anything major new?
18:45:00 <ais523> I fixed some of the bugs you reported
18:45:24 <AnMaster> ais523, ah like -F?
18:45:26 <ais523> also I implemented an optimisation for gerund abstention that Joris sent me months ago
18:45:31 <ais523> AnMaster: not the -F one yet
18:45:40 <ais523> it was mostly the build process bugs to do with not cross-compiling
18:45:57 <ais523> now if you aren't cross-compiling your CC and CFLAGS last through the whole compilation
18:45:57 <AnMaster> ais523, also I don't know if it still affects you with new build system, but some gentoo developer made a patch to ensure make -j2 and higher works
18:45:59 <ais523> although not at runtime
18:46:13 <ais523> AnMaster: the new build system works fine with -j2
18:46:17 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/jYiUEc56.html
18:46:20 <AnMaster> was the patch anyway
18:47:04 <ais523> ah ok, just the old lex/yacc dependencies patch
18:47:11 <ais523> Automake does that automatically, so I didn't have to think about it
18:47:16 <AnMaster> ais523, wasn't in the last release anyway
18:47:22 <ais523> no, it wasn't
18:47:31 <ais523> it fixed itself incidentally in trunk, though
18:47:36 <AnMaster> yeah
18:48:00 <ais523> I learnt about the lex/yacc dependencies trick from the Automake doc
18:48:08 <AnMaster> hm?
18:48:35 <AnMaster> ok
18:48:40 <ais523> how to generate the .c and .h in a way that's safe in a parallel make
18:48:48 <ais523> given that lex and yacc output at the wrong filename
18:49:00 <AnMaster> well it seems to be a command line parameter
18:49:02 <AnMaster> to do so
18:49:20 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, that doesn't work portably
18:49:23 <ais523> so they did half the fix
18:49:36 <AnMaster> ais523, obviously what was needed for gentoo toolchain
18:49:39 <ais523> but the other half would work on Gentoo, presumably, who knows their own lex/yacc versions
18:49:46 <ais523> but not on SunOS, for instance
18:49:53 <AnMaster> ais523, yeah it is the gnu toolchain
18:50:01 <AnMaster> so bison and flex
18:50:47 <AnMaster> Pulling from "http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/"...
18:50:47 <AnMaster> No remote changes to pull in!
18:50:53 * AnMaster waits for ais523 to push
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18:51:18 <ais523> I've pushed now
18:53:17 <AnMaster> ais523, my computer with the collection of compilers is currently off.
18:53:22 <AnMaster> since it runs 32-bit arch
18:53:28 <ais523> ah, ok
18:53:32 * AnMaster test builds on his amd64 anyway
18:53:33 <ais523> anyway, it's only half fixed
18:53:40 <AnMaster> ais523, which one?
18:53:48 <ais523> it should build fine
18:53:55 <AnMaster> which one is only half-fixed?
18:53:55 <ais523> but I think it still defaults to using gcc at runtime
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18:54:12 <AnMaster> ah ok
18:54:19 <AnMaster> ais523, that would be easy
18:54:22 <AnMaster> something like:
18:54:24 <ais523> anyway, I fixed the ar thing too
18:54:31 <AnMaster> -DCC="$(CC)"
18:54:36 <AnMaster> in AM_CFLAGS
18:54:38 <AnMaster> or whatever it is
18:54:40 <AnMaster> CPPFLAGS
18:54:42 <ais523> yes
18:54:42 <AnMaster> probably
18:54:46 <ais523> except for stringising
18:54:48 <ais523> which is a pain
18:54:54 <AnMaster> ais523, ok
18:54:55 <AnMaster> a sec
18:54:58 <ais523> what if there are backslashes or double quotes in the compiler name?
18:55:01 <AnMaster> -DCC="\"$(CC)\""
18:55:02 <AnMaster> there?
18:55:12 <ais523> <ais523> what if there are backslashes or double quotes in the compiler name?
18:55:14 <AnMaster> ais523, ah , what about using the # operator then?
18:55:15 <AnMaster> such as
18:55:22 <ais523> yes, I was planning to do it using #
18:55:27 <ais523> it's easy but not trivial
18:55:36 <AnMaster> #define REALCC #CC
18:55:38 <AnMaster> I think?
18:56:00 <ais523> doesn't work
18:56:03 <ais523> that defines it to #CC
18:56:05 <ais523> *"CC"
18:56:10 <AnMaster> ah a space?
18:56:12 <AnMaster> or
18:56:15 <ais523> but there is a trick to make it work, I just have to look it up
18:56:19 <AnMaster> ais523, how is it done then?
18:56:19 <ais523> it involves using more than one macro
18:56:23 <AnMaster> ah
18:56:24 <ais523> and passing things round as arguments
18:56:33 <AnMaster> right
18:56:34 <ais523> either that, or I could just use sed
18:56:39 <AnMaster> heh
18:56:49 <AnMaster> ais523, does that exist on all platforms you support?
18:57:05 <AnMaster> ais523, also do you support MSVC? Considering you seem to support everything else
18:57:18 <ais523> I haven't tested on MSVC yet
18:57:27 <ais523> it doesn't interact well with a POSIX build process
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18:57:31 <ais523> but the computers at Uni have it
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18:57:37 <ais523> so I may make a batch file to use it correctly
18:57:46 <ais523> the files themself should compile with MSVC just fine
18:59:15 * ais523 reboots their computer
18:59:18 <ais523> I'll be back soon, though
19:04:08 <AnMaster> ais523, ok
19:04:19 <AnMaster> one thing: msvc would need a project file I think?
19:04:22 <ais523> back
19:04:25 <AnMaster> for visual studio crap
19:04:27 <AnMaster> or?
19:04:32 <ais523> not if you just used cl
19:04:36 <ais523> to compile the files command-line style
19:04:36 <AnMaster> hm
19:04:40 <ais523> I generally use cl rather than the IDE
19:04:47 <ais523> even when working on a visual-studio-only prokect
19:04:54 <ais523> because I like the command line
19:05:01 <AnMaster> oh and I know cfunge won't compile with that. Since it is C99
19:05:19 <AnMaster> cygwin does apparently work if you try hard enough
19:05:27 <ais523> I wouldn't be surprised
19:05:28 <AnMaster> minus some extensions
19:05:34 <ais523> it's just gcc with a different backend, after all
19:05:35 <AnMaster> but I can't support it
19:05:54 <AnMaster> ais523, well iirc some defines or such were missing
19:06:03 <AnMaster> that I relied on for checking that a feature existed
19:06:20 <ais523> that's generally a bad idea, autoconf is better at detecting features than looking for defines
19:06:30 <AnMaster> I mean POSIX says a certain header should define a certain define with a certain value if a feature is supported
19:06:33 <AnMaster> then I trust it
19:06:37 <AnMaster> it is the standard
19:06:51 <ais523> there might be something that isn't POSIX
19:06:54 <ais523> but supports the feature anyway
19:07:08 <AnMaster> if implementations support those features but don't define the defines then any user of that system should report a bug
19:07:29 <ENKI-][> ais523: i once attempted a flex lexxer for bf -> x86 asm (nasm syntax). it might still be around if you're interested.
19:07:30 <ENKI-][> no yacc involved though
19:07:34 <AnMaster> _POSIX_MAPPED_FILES
19:07:44 <AnMaster> with a value larger than 0
19:07:46 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
19:07:54 <AnMaster> to indicate support for mmap() munmap()
19:07:55 <ais523> ENKI-][: BF is one of the few languages simple enough that you can compile it with just lex
19:08:05 <ais523> but given that BF lexers are so simple, you don't need lex really
19:08:06 <ENKI-][> lol
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19:08:19 <ENKI-][> i've written esolangs that compiled with just lex
19:08:20 <ais523> hi oerjan
19:08:29 <AnMaster> MF - _POSIX_MAPPED_FILES - _SC_MAPPED_FILES
19:08:29 <AnMaster> Shared memory is supported. The include file <sys/mman.h> is present. The following functions are present: mmap(), msync(), mun-
19:08:29 <AnMaster> map().
19:08:32 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
19:08:34 <ENKI-][> but, i've written esolangs that used lex as an interpreter too
19:08:35 <ENKI-][> :P
19:08:39 <AnMaster> and hi oerjan
19:08:44 <ENKI-][> the hard part is looping
19:08:49 <AnMaster> ENKI-][, are you new here?
19:08:53 <AnMaster> or just a new nick?
19:09:02 <ENKI-][> i haven't spoken in here much before
19:09:07 <AnMaster> ah
19:09:08 <oerjan> hemskt mycket hej
19:09:27 <AnMaster> <ais523> ENKI-][: BF is one of the few languages simple enough that you can compile it with just lex
19:09:27 <AnMaster> <ais523> but given that BF lexers are so simple, you don't need lex really
19:09:28 <AnMaster> um
19:09:34 <AnMaster> I just wrote a recursive parser
19:09:36 <AnMaster> when I did it
19:09:39 <ENKI-][> mm
19:09:56 <AnMaster> using even flex seemed like overkill
19:09:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, hah
19:10:04 <ENKI-][> i tend to just combine lex with copious flags and ignore yacc
19:10:16 <ENKI-][> if you do that, even more complex languages are doable
19:10:22 <AnMaster> ENKI-][, seems like overkill, when all you need is a switch case really
19:10:27 * ais523 downloads a 4D flight simulator
19:10:30 * oerjan is teh retro
19:10:33 <AnMaster> ais523, 4D?
19:10:35 <AnMaster> you mean
19:10:39 <AnMaster> not static?
19:10:40 <ENKI-][> though i'd actually quite like a better lexer
19:10:42 <ais523> yep
19:10:45 <ais523> I mean four-dimensional
19:10:50 <AnMaster> ais523, then that includes all of them
19:10:58 <ENKI-][> AnMaster: meh. i prefer not to have to tokenize 100%
19:11:01 <AnMaster> ais523, unless you hit the pause feature
19:11:07 <ais523> AnMaster: four space dimensions
19:11:15 <AnMaster> ENKI-][, err, you hardly need that for bf
19:11:17 <ENKI-][> AnMaster: but i think i rewrote that bf compiler in pure c first
19:11:28 <AnMaster> ENKI-][, I build the tree, reading one symbol at a time
19:11:34 <AnMaster> well I mmap() it all
19:11:36 <ENKI-][> AnMaster: i've written other stuff with flex compilers though.
19:11:40 <AnMaster> then use that to read from
19:11:53 <AnMaster> ais523, such a sim exists?
19:11:57 <AnMaster> ENKI-][, well just overkill for bf
19:12:01 <ais523> AnMaster: yes
19:12:05 <AnMaster> ais523, link?
19:12:07 <ais523> although I haven't used it yet
19:12:14 <ais523> I'm reading the docs atm
19:12:18 <AnMaster> ais523, link?
19:12:19 <ais523> and the link is apt-get adanaxisgpl
19:12:31 <ais523> which isn't particularly useful to someone not on Debian or a derivative
19:12:34 <AnMaster> ais523, indeed
19:12:37 <AnMaster> which I'm not
19:12:39 <ENKI-][> i also wrote the implementation of a network protocol as a flex lexxer, hooking into a kind of flattened list-of-lists
19:12:43 <AnMaster> ais523, can't you query package manager for url?
19:12:45 <oerjan> should be possible to make an infinite-dimensional one. might be hard to find anything else in it though...
19:12:48 <AnMaster> on gentoo that is dead easy
19:12:50 <AnMaster> same on arch
19:12:53 <ENKI-][> but that was megas buggy
19:13:01 * ais523 tries
19:13:06 <ais523> http://www.mushware.com/
19:13:18 <ais523> N.B. I haven't visited that site
19:13:26 <ais523> but it's recorded as the homepage in the package
19:13:48 <AnMaster> ais523, seems like there is a commercial one too
19:13:55 <ais523> heh
19:14:05 <AnMaster> for $18.95
19:14:59 <AnMaster> ais523, also that says space shooter, not flight sim
19:15:02 <AnMaster> very very different
19:15:03 <oerjan> <AnMaster> even if nothing else, as long as you are alive, you perform the action of existing.
19:15:10 <AnMaster> a flight sim most likely lack usable guns
19:15:17 <ais523> ah, yes
19:15:23 <ais523> misread it
19:15:23 <AnMaster> since it simulates *flight* in *air*
19:15:29 <AnMaster> not space shooting
19:15:33 <ais523> a space shooter is a flight sim too, though, just with weapons
19:15:40 <AnMaster> ais523, and in space
19:15:44 <AnMaster> so no areodymaics
19:15:45 <oerjan> i think there are philosophical problems with considering existence an action or property
19:15:49 <AnMaster> spelling....
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19:16:07 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh?
19:16:23 <oerjan> there was a flawed proof of God based on it, i think
19:16:43 <AnMaster> ais523, a flight sim should have accurate aerodynamics. Many aircraft fighter games I have seen fail totally at that
19:16:56 <AnMaster> ais523, while a flight sim does it properly
19:16:56 <oerjan> basically, God is by definition perfect, so has every positive property, including existence, QED.
19:17:15 <AnMaster> oerjan, that doesn't work for other reasons
19:17:19 <ENKI-][> i don't exist.
19:17:26 <ENKI-][> EXTERNISM FTW
19:17:36 <ais523> oerjan: that's flawed even without the flaw you mentioned
19:17:36 <AnMaster> ?
19:17:37 <ENKI-][> :-)
19:17:49 <ENKI-][> externism is the opposite of nihilism
19:17:49 <ais523> define X to be an odd perfect number that exists.
19:17:52 <ENKI-][> er
19:17:56 <ais523> By definition, X exists
19:17:57 <ENKI-][> it's the opposite of solipism rather
19:17:59 <ais523> so there is an odd perfect number
19:18:10 <ENKI-][> everything exists but the self
19:18:14 <oerjan> ais523: um that _was_ the flaw i mentioned
19:18:29 <ais523> oerjan: ah, I thought you were talking about the flaw being that existence wasn't a property
19:18:39 <oerjan> ais523: yes
19:19:36 <ais523> I think the flaw is that all you've proved is that if God exists, God exists
19:19:39 <ais523> which is a tautology
19:19:46 <AnMaster> ais523, in fact I can't find any gpl download for that project
19:19:52 <ais523> the argument you give does not contradict the possibility that God does not exist
19:19:56 <ais523> AnMaster: strange
19:20:06 <ais523> you'd think they'd advertise their GPL download too, seeing as it exists
19:20:10 <ais523> or maybe they wouldn't in the hope you'd pay
19:20:27 <AnMaster> ais523, can't find it anyway, maybe they changed license
19:20:36 <AnMaster> also it seems it is a one man company, says so on front page
19:20:39 <AnMaster> so him it seems
19:20:48 <oerjan> ais523: well obviously there are several ways of looking at it, but some philosophers have considered that the flaw in the argument is considering existence a property
19:21:15 <ENKI-][> thomas aquinas has a similar 'proof' that was a bit better, but that will probably end up with something very un-godlike
19:21:21 <ENKI-][> it's something like
19:21:54 <ENKI-][> god is the best. if there's something better, it's not god. when you reach the end, it's god. the universe is finite, so there must be something that's best.
19:22:10 <oklopol> yeah that makes so much sense
19:22:24 <ENKI-][> but does that mean that if i value chocolate cakes over everything in the universe, the best chocolate cake i've ever had is god?
19:22:28 <AnMaster> ais523, hm
19:22:29 <AnMaster> http://www.mushware.com/viewtopic.php?p=352
19:22:51 * ENKI-][ watches lain
19:22:52 <AnMaster> ah
19:22:53 <AnMaster> "For Linux, a GPL version of this game is available, which lacks the commercially-sourced graphical and audio content present in the non-GPL version. Use the Change Listing box above and select Linux/GPL only to view it.
19:22:54 <AnMaster> "
19:23:22 <AnMaster> ais523, tell me if it is worth it
19:23:31 <ais523> I haven't tried it yet
19:23:34 <ais523> probably won't today
19:23:38 <ais523> but I'll let you know later if you like
19:23:51 <AnMaster> http://www.mushware.com/album_showpage.php?pic_id=8
19:23:54 <AnMaster> screenshots look cool
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21:07:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | looks cool, but light on th CPU.
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22:06:48 <Asztal> the newbies discovered the undergrad mailing list :(
22:06:55 <ais523> ah, that sounds bad
22:06:58 <ais523> is it moderated?
22:07:02 <Asztal> not at all
22:07:44 <Asztal> so far there's been random chit-chat, "who are you and why are you sending me email, I don't know you", people signing up to myspace, and BBC gardening newsletters
22:07:57 <ais523> oh dear...
22:08:17 <Asztal> and of course the all-time favourite, "STOP SPAMMING THE MAILING LIST!" sent to the entire mailing list.
22:08:20 <ais523> this is as bad as the day about 8 people posted SWORDFISH to what is normally a low-traffic mailing list
22:30:58 * GregorR enjoys his oh-so-exclusive graduate mailing list :P
22:32:49 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando").
23:16:37 <ENKI-][> that's sort of like the time that chinese and korean spammers and sourceforge ad partners discovered the development group for a project with only 3 members on google groups, and decided to try to outdo each other, three years after the project disbanded
23:17:17 <ENKI-][> then i had to look up the password and close the group
23:34:09 -!- ehird has changed nick to Barack_Obama.
23:34:23 -!- Barack_Obama has changed nick to ehird.
23:53:06 <AnMaster> ouch
23:53:08 <AnMaster> and night
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