00:21:36 night 00:42:26 -!- atrapado has quit (Excess Flood). 00:42:53 -!- atrapado has joined. 01:02:00 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 01:12:05 -!- tusho has quit. 01:38:24 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 02:37:55 -!- ihope_ has joined. 02:43:18 -!- calamari has joined. 02:55:24 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:55:27 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:10:16 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 03:37:04 -!- oc2k1 has joined. 03:45:45 Update on the BF computer idea: It looks like a (synchronous) up/down counter needs the same number of gatter like a adding unit 03:46:41 in that case it would be thinkable to wire a nibble fromt the code tape to that unit 03:48:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Not bad.. 03:49:00 the next step would be to replace the condition == or != 0 by <0 (save the comparision unit, because only the MSB contain that state) 03:55:06 Maybe it's not the idea to minimize the functionality, but the hardware 03:55:13 -!- CO2Games has left (?). 04:14:47 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:10:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:57:37 -!- oc2k1 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:18:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:57:34 -!- Traveler03 has joined. 07:57:51 -!- Traveler03 has left (?). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:13:08 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:55:04 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:55:32 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 09:13:34 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:15:12 hi 09:48:13 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | C guarantees 32 KB of auto storage, I wonder what it guarantees on nested function calls.. 09:48:18 optbot ? 09:48:18 Mony: I know that bf is turing complete but I needed to prove that it was possible to do 09:57:00 I wonder where that 32k number comes from; can't seem to find it in C99, the closest thing is "65535 bytes in an object (in a hosted environment only)" in the limits section. 09:57:13 optbot: Do you know where it came from? 09:57:14 fizzie: +-? 09:57:21 optbot: What? 09:57:22 fizzie: And I thought C++ was bad 10:04:34 optbot: I'm not seeing any guarantees about storage in the C++ standard either, although I might have missed something, it's so long. 10:04:34 fizzie: i tend to 10:14:07 fizzie, url to fungot again please? 10:14:08 AnMaster: very good chance. i called it a gallery 10:14:54 -!- Keymaker has joined. 10:15:48 ah found it 10:16:30 I just updated it, so you might want to refetch. 10:16:49 Or hmm, did I? Not sure. 10:17:01 I was almost certain I had gotten rid of the NULL usage, but apparently not. 10:17:16 i mainly stopped to advertise a new language i added to esowiki; figurehead: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Figurehead 10:17:20 Maybe I just thought about it. 10:17:25 just in case nobody visits that wiki 10:19:25 Only sequences of two or more of the same character are count, that is, only they cause computation to happen. <<< i think it's "counted" 10:19:49 It could also be "count" without the "are". 10:20:20 Loops may be nested, and a same loop sequence used later. <<< i can't parse this at all 10:20:42 count without are is better 10:20:57 i'm only correcting up to grammar 10:21:08 s/a/the/ maybe, but what else is wrong with the loop thing? 10:21:39 like that if there is loop sequence "aaa" (not sure if spaces show up here) can be used again after it's used, like aaaBBBaaaBaaaBBaaa 10:21:57 not very clear :D B marks | in that 10:22:24 That's how I parsed it. 10:22:34 yes, but i was talking to oklopol 10:23:00 so at least i wasn't completely unclear, then, maybe :) 10:23:52 s/a/the/ fixes it, yes, i'm being a bit pedantic atm, not even trying to fix the error myself 10:24:40 that's a somewhat interesting language, the memory is actually a set? 10:24:57 or, well, you could have a register for each ||...|, and just inc/dec it 10:25:18 mentioned there as well 10:25:21 oh minsky machine 10:25:24 :) 10:25:58 but i don't know what the memory is, technically. new values go to end and also when loop begins it takes value from end, but values are removed beginning from left/start 10:26:01 -!- SirDayBat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:27:03 well, it doesn't really make much difference where the values are removed 10:27:41 what i'd suggest is a way to run multiple threads, and do multiset operations on the threads when they stop executing 10:27:42 it makes to keep it deterministic. if they were removed randomly, which i first did, the loop instruction might work differently 10:28:24 it might? 10:28:40 oh 10:28:47 rightmost value is popped 10:28:49 i see i see 10:28:52 imagine stack 2 3 2 and then you remove 2 randomly :) 10:28:53 yea 10:29:13 so basically what was last incremented 10:29:34 you could have it be a stack, and have that as like a separate rule... except it wouldn't work for nested rules 10:29:48 so okay, it can be a stack, i won't complain. 10:31:53 can you try the interpreter to see if it works? 10:32:06 on other system than mine... 10:32:39 Keymaker, interesting language 10:32:46 thanks! 10:48:27 well, hopefully someone will try the interpreter and minsky machine translator and find some "use" for this language. i must get going 10:48:45 -!- Keymaker has quit. 11:01:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("So, how much do you love noodles?"). 11:36:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:26:01 -!- oklofok has joined. 12:26:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:26:11 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 12:26:58 Stop it. You sound like a parrot. 12:27:03 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 12:46:52 ^oko 12:46:52 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ... 12:47:06 There's a complex task, automated. 12:47:51 ^huh 12:49:01 ^show oko 12:49:02 +10[>+11<-]>+[.-4.+4] 12:51:12 you have two digit numbers but not three? :D 12:51:12 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:51:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:51:49 it's not polite to mock, oerjan 12:52:06 fizzie can't help it if he's an incredible moron 12:52:14 whew 12:52:26 i thought you were being serious there for a moment 12:52:32 :D 12:52:39 Where would a three-digit number go there? 12:52:40 yeah, right 12:52:45 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Aaaaaaah.jpg 12:52:46 I think Spiderman just shat on my graph. 12:52:47 Oh, right. 12:53:01 -!- olsner has joined. 12:53:29 It only eats plain old brainfuck as input, so there are no numbers at all. 12:53:40 I have no idea what just happened. 12:53:40 They're supposed to be orbits. 12:54:07 ah so it is compressed after the fact 12:54:32 +10 = ++++++++++ 12:54:35 Yes, it is turned into a bytecode form, and the "show" command just sticks numbers there instead of repeating the characters. 12:54:35 `? 12:54:42 Slereah: i think you generated a black hole somewhere 12:54:43 ^def test bf ++++++++++ 12:54:43 Defined. 12:54:45 ^show test 12:54:45 +10 12:54:54 ohh 12:55:08 now i get it too! :P 12:55:44 There should also be some clear correlation in http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/a_mess.png but it's not happening. 12:55:52 If we're comparing graphs here. 12:57:27 at least Slereah's is a bit pretty 12:57:28 Ah shit 12:57:33 I think I know what happened. 12:57:38 Cumulative error. 12:57:57 yeah you've got a cumulus at the center 12:58:07 If I reduce the plotting range, I get clearer figures 12:58:25 But they're full of angles, for some reason 12:58:35 Though they're supposed to be ellipses 12:58:39 It's full of stars. 12:58:59 fizzie: no that's yours 12:59:36 Slereah: a bit large delta somewhere? 13:00:09 It's hard to say 13:00:13 Part of the code was stolen 13:00:17 Recycled, I mean. 13:00:26 From there : http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/TheCelestialTwoBodyProblem/ 13:00:26 ah some DRM thing 13:00:32 * oerjan ducks 13:00:49 Heh. 13:00:57 I can see the deferent circles now :D 13:01:05 Let's reduce the range once more, see what happens! 13:01:25 oh you mean the time range? 13:02:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:02:37 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:02:46 Reduced a bit too much, eh? 13:03:02 yeah if it gets around the orbit in less time than your resolution and just uses lines between neighbors.. 13:04:33 Heh, my public_html directory at work is pretty much just a list of graphs that have made me go "huh?". Like in http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/comp.png where methods 1 and 2 were supposed to give pretty much identical results. 13:05:13 need more context 13:05:33 I would provide some if I remembered it. 13:05:42 looks more like inverses... 13:05:50 just make something up 13:06:04 I think it's the output of abs(fft(x)), though, since the X range seems to be 1:129. 13:06:46 oklofok: it's based on tracing honey bees with infrared lasers 13:07:08 or with ultraviolet ones 13:07:16 ah right 13:07:20 the difference is because bees can see UV 13:07:21 Thanks, that was better than what I would have come up with. 13:07:30 yes, a rookie mistake 13:08:40 plus that the bees explode if the IR is turned to high 13:08:50 *too 13:09:18 heh, i kinda lolled @ reading lazy executiong as "crazy execution" 13:09:22 wonder what that is 13:09:27 *execution 13:10:18 being beaten to death with soft white bread 13:10:30 it's fun the first couple hours 13:10:42 :D 13:10:47 the bread must be changed regularly when going stale 13:10:53 of course 13:11:09 and this actually is not my invention 13:11:24 i think i've heard it before, i mean the soft white bread part 13:11:39 if it's actually called "crazy execution", then i didn't know that 13:11:49 ah no 13:11:57 it was just an example 13:12:55 there _has_ to be a monty python example. or several. 13:12:58 perhaps crazy execution could refer to opening both threads at every branch, and only using the result of the actual branch after both are done 13:13:50 purely crazy languages cannot be tc, obviously 13:14:23 sure they can 13:14:29 can they? 13:14:32 humm humm 13:14:34 just not in practice 13:15:06 languages that take longer to run than the lifetime of the universe come to mind 13:15:19 if we have a jump backwards 13:15:28 then execution will always take infinite time 13:16:03 hmm 13:16:18 i guess you could have instruction that change the code 13:16:23 and don't have conditions 13:16:38 *instructions 13:17:15 * oerjan changes his mind after reading properly 13:18:05 yeah if it doesn't matter that not all threads are done, it's basically just a... crazy way to do execution 13:18:13 but it'll work 13:19:40 nice, this book assumes the reader knows what "intractability" is, but not what a "file" is 13:19:51 intractability? 13:19:57 made for the hardcore computer scientist i see 13:20:22 "the trait of being hard to influence or control" according to google's define: 13:20:51 AnMaster: an intractable problem is one that cannot be done in polynomial time, consult oerjan for exact definition, in case this is inaccurate 13:23:27 ah 13:25:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:26:44 and also thanks for demonstrating my point 13:26:57 ...i'm assuming you have a faint idea what a "file" is? 13:29:04 'record in a public office or in a court of law; "file for divorce"; "file a complaint"' 13:29:50 also according to google 13:30:10 that's not "a file", that's "file" 13:30:23 that's what define file gives 13:31:01 'a set of related records (either written or electronic) kept together' 13:31:01 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:31:07 -!- oklofok has joined. 13:31:08 that's #2 13:31:23 did i miss smth 13:31:27 * oerjan swats oklofok 13:31:30 'a set of related records (either written or electronic) kept together' 13:32:03 that's google's #2 13:44:08 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:44:16 -!- oklofok has joined. 13:44:56 -!- tusho has joined. 13:47:39 -!- Corun has joined. 14:42:46 Fuck, I do not understand this: 14:42:48 def f_callcc(env, cc, f): 14:42:48 # this is a kind of wacky way of doing this 14:42:48 return ev(cons(f, cons(cons(symbol("quote"), cons(cc, nil)), nil)), env, cc) 14:42:52 And I WROTE it. 14:42:57 Hmm. 14:43:00 Well I might understand it. 14:43:01 A little. 14:50:58 that first argument to ev seems to be `(,f ',cc) in backquote notation iirc 14:58:19 technically i think i'd've wanted `(',f ',cc) or a direct application 14:58:22 oerjan: nah: 14:58:23 it's 14:58:33 '(f (quote cc)) 14:58:35 ev = eval 14:58:44 ev(code, environment, continuation function) 14:58:46 so callcc is 14:58:54 tusho: you don't understand backquote notation? 14:58:55 ah wait 14:58:59 oerjan: i do 14:59:01 you're right 14:59:01 sorry 14:59:03 i misread 14:59:04 but yeah 14:59:14 it evals `(,f ',cc) 14:59:26 the quote just because otherwise it'll try and evaluate a continuation and get confused, think 14:59:26 :P 14:59:29 *i think 14:59:45 which seems like it would evaluate f twice 15:00:01 errrrrrrrrrrrr 15:00:01 since it's probably already evaluated 15:00:08 oerjan: functions are self-evaluating 15:00:16 and `(f ',cc) wouldn't work 15:00:19 since f is a python var 15:00:20 not a lisp one 15:00:27 are you checking that it is a function? 15:01:42 oerjan: i don't think you understand... 15:01:46 that function declaration is the definition of callcc 15:01:49 in the lisp-in-python i wrote 15:02:00 ages ago 15:02:03 and just found today 15:02:15 sure, and i just don't think you are checking that it gets a function as argument :) 15:02:30 it's not a big deal though 15:02:43 oerjan: i think it gets f unevaluated. 15:02:56 so it will be a symbol or a list or whatever, and needs to be evaluated 15:03:05 (call/cc (lambda ...)) i think itd get (lambda ...) 15:03:25 um lambdas are self-evaluating too 15:03:29 er wait 15:03:38 you mean get the list 15:04:07 ya 15:05:03 except it might not be called directly, call/cc is not a special form 15:05:27 so it could be called in some higher-order fashion, with things already evaluated 15:05:48 should i just give you the whole source so you can tell me how bad i messed it up :D 15:05:53 argh 15:06:12 mwahahahah 15:06:15 that will shut you up! 15:06:45 tusho knows my weak points - i must add him to the List 15:06:52 whoops, did i say that aloud? 15:06:54 :( 15:08:13 * oerjan refuses to believe tusho took that seriously 15:08:21 i take everything seriously 15:08:27 >:| 15:09:05 [ehird:~/Code] % grep 'return ev(cons(f, cons(cons(symbol("quote"), cons(cc, nil)), nil)), env, cc' * 15:09:08 slow grep is slow 15:09:21 those > smileys look really weird when you try to interpret them upside down 15:09:36 wtf no results 15:09:38 or was that the right way? 15:09:52 oerjan: it should be :| with a > eyebrow formation 15:10:01 but >: with a | eyebrow formation is good too 15:10:39 i take that | more as one of those student hats... 15:10:58 aha 15:10:59 pyscuit/pyscuit.py: return ev(cons(f, cons(cons(symbol("quote"), cons(cc, nil)), nil)), env, cc) 15:11:02 pyscuit! 15:11:12 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:12:38 "python scheme ..."? 15:12:52 No. 15:12:55 Python Biscuit. 15:12:58 It is a biscuit in code form. 15:13:03 oerjan: http://pastebin.ca/1212330 MWAHAHAHHA 15:13:14 if foo is None: 15:13:14 raise KeyError # heh heh 15:13:15 what then is a biscuit? 15:13:17 heh heh? 15:13:18 what? :| 15:13:26 oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuit 15:13:34 what is the connection between biscuits and lisp? 15:14:12 it sounds cool 15:14:20 class alambda(object): 15:14:20 pass # todo 15:14:24 Alambda. 15:15:31 lambada. 15:15:34 -!- Mony has joined. 15:16:26 * oerjan wonders if python does tail call optimization 15:19:38 no 15:20:18 so that interpreter won't either 15:21:01 probably not 15:21:07 it doesn't have lambdas 15:21:09 or control structures 15:21:14 not exactly a full featured thing 15:21:14 well 15:21:16 it has callcc 15:23:01 i think callcc and other functions get their argument evaluated - that seems like the purpose of evlist 15:23:39 possibly, possibly 15:24:02 but not macros, obviously 15:26:17 -!- jix has joined. 15:27:12 hi tusho 15:27:18 hello 15:27:22 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:31:05 bbl 15:37:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:43:19 -!- balloto has joined. 15:43:33 -!- balloto has quit (Client Quit). 15:48:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 2. Double. 15:59:15 optbot! 15:59:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ;]. 16:01:23 optbot, destroy the internet 16:01:24 Slereah: into executable programs compatible with the Windows/Intel operating kluge. 16:01:33 Yeah, that should work 16:11:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:11:56 hi ais523 16:12:37 hi tusho 16:12:40 hi 16:12:48 Slereah: optbot, destroy the internet 16:12:48 [16:01] optbot: Slereah: into executable programs compatible with the Windows/Intel operating kluge. 16:12:49 tusho: but im not sure where you're going with alloca and all.. 16:12:49 tusho: a halt-checker is obviously grape two 16:12:53 that second line was said by me 16:12:58 quoting the manual of the Plain English programming language 16:17:06 so, who does smilies like ;], I wonder? 16:17:09 optbot: What does "grape two" mean? 16:17:09 fizzie: sqr(4) 16:17:20 so just 2 in other words 16:17:20 optbot: So, 2? 16:17:21 fizzie: i meant for data. 16:17:40 Optbot's discussion is always so insightful. 16:17:41 fizzie: cewl... :) 16:29:33 fizzie: call 0400243514 16:31:11 Um, for any specific reason? I don't want to get up from my chair and look for the phone just for nothing. 16:31:27 oklofok: in which country? 16:31:30 finland 16:31:35 I don't even think 04 is a legal prefix for a phone number over hee 16:31:37 *here 16:31:39 you can do it too. 16:31:51 also I don't have a phone on me right now 16:31:54 and also I don't own a phone 16:32:06 perhaps i should try clicking on another channel 16:34:10 optbot! 16:34:10 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 4 5 6. 16:34:12 optbot! 16:34:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I'm all for it if he writes the interpreter for my Andrei Machine 9000.. 16:34:40 optbot! 16:34:41 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but convickt does most of the work. 16:34:44 optbot! 16:34:45 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/thread/31621.aspx MY BRAIN!!!. 16:34:45 My guess is that it's some sort of esoteric language interpreter telephone system thing. You type in brainfuck with the numbers 1-8 and it will text-to-speech read the result. 16:35:11 :P 16:35:20 it was actually as mundane as just finding my phone. 16:35:37 but something like that would be quite fun 16:35:44 Ohhh. Well, I could've done that if you had assured me that no-one was going to answer the phone and electrocute me through it. 16:35:59 Maybe I should make fungot answer my phone. What do you say, fungot; want to be an answering machine? 16:36:00 fizzie: i know i know 16:36:11 i might've hypnotized you and made you fall unconscious. 16:36:24 but, too late, as i found it; now some sleeping -> 16:36:49 fungot: Was that a "yes" or a "no"? 16:36:49 fizzie: the jvm doesn't, but could you do such a good medium for this kind of stuff 16:37:44 I don't think I'm getting through. 16:40:53 My guess is that it's some sort of esoteric language interpreter telephone system thing. You type in brainfuck with the numbers 1-8 and it will text-to-speech read the result. 16:40:56 I really like that idea... 16:41:00 but who would use it? 16:41:52 Maybe someone stranded on an uninhabited island, without a computer (but with a working phone) could pass the time while waiting for the rescures by writing brainfuck to the beach sand and then using that telephone service to execute it. 16:42:07 And that's just one possibility! 16:42:24 unfortunately a useful BF program would probably take too long to write in 16:44:12 Hmm, well, maybe the fungot answering machine is a better idea, then; at least someone terminally bored on a long bus trip or something could call it for some "conversation". 16:44:13 fizzie: has bad lambda support if you ask it, but it 16:45:03 a fungot answering machine would be great 16:45:03 ais523: yeah, for instance, 16:45:07 or even an optbot answering machine 16:45:07 ais523: !i 1 This is a test!\n 16:45:27 if someone phoned you and you weren't in they'd hear a random line from #esoteric text-to-speeched 16:45:46 -!- oc2k1 has joined. 16:46:15 Unfortunately I'm not quite sure I can implement it on my phone, since I don't think the J2ME mobile-Java-thing has the necessary APIs to actually answer phone calls, and I really don't want to touch the Symbian side. 16:46:29 I don't have a fixed land-line style phone line here. :/ 16:46:56 also, http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/10150.aspx is excellent, and apparently genuine 16:47:31 Yes, the "Daa Cener" was everyone's favourite last night. 16:48:28 Didn't check it out, and seems to work correctly right now -- but at least there are screen caps, it seems. 16:49:34 probably the guess that somehow the backslash got lost from a regex removing \t seems the most plausible 16:51:35 Yes, although I'm not quite sure why someone would want to remove tabs from the site. Saving a dozen bytes doesn't sound like it. 16:53:18 hi ais523 16:53:22 hi AnMaster 16:53:23 how goes gcc-bf? 16:53:31 again, I'm busy in RL 16:53:44 ah ok 16:54:07 ais523, if I want to learn some Lisp, what variant would you recommend? 16:54:31 I don't really use Lisp, and when I do I just use whichever interpreter I can get my hands on most easily 16:54:38 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:54:39 which in practice has normally been emacs-lisp, which is not quite the same 16:54:53 Scheme's good theoretically, but is really a different language from Common Lisp 16:55:08 you might want to ask tusho; he uses Lisp-like languages a lot more than me 16:55:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:56:02 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:56:35 -!- Corun has joined. 16:59:10 AnMaster: i'm no tusho, but it think you should read SICP, READ IT NOW 16:59:14 *i think 16:59:52 oklofok, where can I find a copy? 17:00:13 Everywhere; a friend of mine bought 20 pieces of SICP and gave them to people. 17:00:16 it's online, and you can buy it from amazon, that's all i know 17:00:40 ah full text online 17:00:41 useful 17:00:43 oklofok: wrong 17:00:48 AnMaster: to find out where to get sicp, read sicp 17:00:56 fizzie: where do you find these friends who dispense computer books? 17:01:06 tusho: right, right, as i said, i'm no tusho. 17:01:12 what 17:01:13 you're not me?! 17:01:18 after all these years... 17:01:18 oklofok, and that is why I didn't ask tusho 17:01:22 there was a reason 17:01:26 :) 17:01:27 I wanted an usable answer 17:01:31 thanks oklofok 17:01:43 I should so put a paragraph in the C-INTERCAL manual explaining where to get the manual 17:01:49 which says "Here, look, you're already reading it..." 17:01:55 AnMaster: every time you complain about the quality of my answers you get 10 more annoying answers queued up 17:02:09 ais523, hah fun 17:02:14 oklofok: A fellow student at HUT was that. And I guess the SICP-distribution was mostly because the local book store sold their SICP pile for something like 2 eur/book when HUT stopped using Scheme for teaching. 17:02:19 ais523, and quite intercalish 17:02:44 1. why was i not there when that happened 2. did they change it to java? 17:03:14 oklofok: Don't know about 1, but yes, they did change it to Java. Although I think at least one of the introductory courses does Python now. 17:03:31 heh 17:03:32 we had an introductory course in python when i took it 17:03:36 but now it's java too. 17:03:55 jeez 17:03:56 you know 17:03:59 People kept complaining the Scheme course was too hard. 17:03:59 java has its usecases 17:04:01 but it's like comic sans 17:04:13 humans just can't seem to get it into their heads WHAT the appropriate usecases are! 17:04:17 so we need to ban it. 17:04:46 fizzie: i hate those people, just fyi 17:05:01 tusho, what about ARC and PHP? 17:05:38 AnMaster: those have no good use-cases 17:05:38 :D 17:05:43 tusho, indeed 17:10:30 tusho: appropriate use-case for Java is when you need to write an application which has portable complex UI 17:10:49