< 1222387314 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1222387632 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222388992 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1222394398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1222398228 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1222400719 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222400891 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it can. < 1222403078 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-173-245-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222403679 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1222403818 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And I invented doors, no joke!" < 1222403979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222404491 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222413113 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222413127 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222413195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somewhat proved my original idea wouldn't work, but devised another scheme that seems more promising < 1222413818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p466532445.txt < 1222413851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dictionary of references is just the normal references an object has to other objects < 1222413880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backrefs are just the other directions of references, because we need to be able to follow them backwards < 1222413881 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@k-65.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222413907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootrefcount is what (i think) makes this work < 1222413933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root refs are references directly from a variable on stack < 1222413974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when they reach zero will we have to do any checking for whether there are paths to the object < 1222414009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the idea is, we mostly reference objects directly from local variables, so we don't need to do these searches that often < 1222414027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, i might be wrong, but i think this one would at least work. < 1222415021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just intuitively speaking, "search through backrefs to find a path to root" sounds like it would take a while, given that it can (apparently?) be an arbitrary, cyclic graph. < 1222415136 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222415208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it could definitely take a while < 1222415223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...any more questions? < 1222415251 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222415424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simple cases it will only run the search a few times, and that's all i care about :P < 1222415437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have more useful ideas regarding typed structures < 1222415711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not right now, too early for thinking. I guess it sort-of sounds like it would not leak. < 1222415737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's very probably, it's just currently it's a bit useless. < 1222415964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1222415979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a demonstration in 15 minutes < 1222415982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool -> < 1222415999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1222416000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1222416204 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222422491 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's pretty obscure as these things go. < 1222422643 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222422672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs clog  < 1222427659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222428227 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"So, how much do you love noodles?" < 1222429083 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-103.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222429488 0 :ihope!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222432896 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.117.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222434286 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222437603 0 :comex!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1222440117 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-63-238.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222440315 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222440527 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222440534 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-63-238.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222441440 0 :Corun!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222442496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :los tthe game < 1222442529 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had tons of money I would air a commercial that was just a black screen with the white text "You just lost the game." < 1222442559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222442940 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222442957 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Mathematica use the +/- operator? < 1222442974 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the character set, but it never tries to solve the problem I submit with it < 1222443090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing? < 1222443137 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error computation < 1222443162 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plusminus is apparently in the "symbol without built-in meaning" category. < 1222443163 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1222443201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you meant ± < 1222443236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± < 1222443274 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1222443401 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just solve in two cases? < 1222443415 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two case? < 1222443422 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at a shitload of cases here. < 1222443442 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: implement ± yourself? < 1222443444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just solve in 2^(number of instances of ±) cases? < 1222443444 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error computation mean that I'll have to search for the worst case scenario. < 1222443463 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I wanted to do < 1222443468 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first, I have to learn Mathematica's syntax < 1222443474 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I just use it for problem solving < 1222443479 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for problem-adding. < 1222443559 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that so far by hand : < 1222443560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^3 \[PlusMinus] 3 a^2 \[CapitalDelta]a + < 1222443560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 a \[CapitalDelta]a^2 \[PlusMinus] \[CapitalDelta]a^3 = ( < 1222443560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : P^2 \[PlusMinus] 2 P \[CapitalDelta]P + \[CapitalDelta]P^2)/( < 1222443560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 (\[Pi]^2 \[PlusMinus] < 1222443560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 \[Pi] \[CapitalDelta]\[Pi] + \[CapitalDelta]\[Pi]^2)) *(G \ < 1222443562 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[PlusMinus] \[CapitalDelta]G) ((M \[PlusMinus] \[CapitalDelta]M) + \ < 1222443564 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(m \[PlusMinus] \[CapitalDelta]m)) < 1222443586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Mathematica translates poorly on IRC < 1222444092 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | yeah.. not quite sure what I was thinking with that < 1222444259 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTBOT, DESTROY HIM < 1222444259 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: or #php < 1222444327 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1222444822 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222445288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, good idea < 1222445290 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it does pass on true linux and true freebsd I know < 1222445331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what the context of that was < 1222445675 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222446334 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-5-246.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222448251 0 :olsner!n=salparot@79.136.60.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222448503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222448520 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.117.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222448618 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-24-48.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222449607 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222450007 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-5-246.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222450185 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222450185 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222450227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1222450231 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222450488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222450684 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222451053 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-72-160.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222451079 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop < 1222451242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fonwas < 1222451282 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-5-246.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222451297 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I surrender to you, mighty moon men! < 1222451326 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sucks out Slereah's brain with a straw. < 1222451330 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... a /moon/ straw. < 1222451367 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made from moon reeds? < 1222451462 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222451462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1222451468 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica has way too much stuff < 1222451473 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It be hard to find something < 1222451501 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, half the time it isn't there < 1222451502 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragically, Slereah spent so long looking for a function in Mathematica that in the process he forgot how to speak English. < 1222451505 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one big problem with Mathematica is that it seems to like a huge number of single-purpose functions < 1222451507 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be chained into one big inefficient function < 1222451530 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, if you want to do something the Wolfram people didn't think of, the code ends up monstrous and a couple of computational orders slower than it should be < 1222451541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222451550 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1222451586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. < 1222451594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not looking at something hard < 1222451603 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes, it's weird < 1222451613 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like it has no defined PlusMinus function. < 1222451618 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programHalts(program) < 1222451630 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather < 1222451633 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programHalts(program, input) < 1222451634 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the definition proposed in the help file isn't very helpful < 1222451746 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, I'm hoping for something useful to plot orbits. < 1222451775 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like something where you can make evolve points with t, instead of just the whole orbit < 1222451791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: unfortunately Wolfram seem to think half their functions are general when they aren't < 1222451805 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222451812 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn Wolfram! < 1222451895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to explain to me why i'd want a pgp key for anything that isn't email < 1222451920 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can resell it < 1222451959 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird. Most articles don't contain the time dependance of orbits. < 1222451967 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just give you the whole orbit. < 1222451972 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it, I'll just compute it. < 1222452082 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since orbital mechanics. < 1222452627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1222452646 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong ! < 1222452666 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pung < 1222452726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: other cases where you need to confirm your identity? < 1222452732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you were a DNS server, for instance? < 1222452755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: openid? < 1222452762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that just confirms i own tusho.net < 1222452765 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is also http bound < 1222452774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222452783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microid, possibly? < 1222452801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgp has the advantage of being older ofc < 1222452836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really < 1222452846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays people use OpenPGP instead to avoid paying licensing < 1222452851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OpenPGP isn't all that old < 1222452882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the actual key system... < 1222453236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1222453237 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03515614561 < 1222453237 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 < 1222453238 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61 < 1222453437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222454046 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222454082 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222454090 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1222454929 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222455331 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222455343 0 :Corun!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222456882 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222457026 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222457151 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222457380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222457388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1222457460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for mathematica, I'm sure maxima can't do as much, but maxima is 1) free 2) works fairly well for a lot of problems, and have decent speed < 1222457496 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@k-97.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222457506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you could use gpg to sign tarballs you release < 1222457514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like that ever happens :D < 1222457515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about the only reason apart from email I can think of < 1222457527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well if you don't do that then I guess that is not a reason for you then < 1222457537 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was joking about my not ever doing anything. < 1222457540 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that's not a joke. < 1222457553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11:29:20 up 16 days, 23:38, 3 users, load average: 429.31, 219.79, 596.82 <-- hm... I don't like that on a server... < 1222457564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1222457567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is shared hosting too) < 1222457567 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ uptime < 1222457567 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18:32:41 up 26 days, 21:49, 1 user, load average: 0.15, 0.03, 0.01 < 1222457575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why we rebooted last? < 1222457576 0 :Corun__!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222457578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so about nothing apart from reporting it that I can do) < 1222457602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up 2:06 < 1222457604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my computer < 1222457612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprising as I turn it off when I'm not using it < 1222457614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222457618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my desktop: < 1222457620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20:33:32 up 31 days, 7:50, 32 users, load average: 0.37, 0.35, 0.22 < 1222457631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was talking about the horrible load average < 1222457652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me if http://supertux.lethargik.org/wiki/Main_Page loads at all, and if it does how long does it take < 1222457672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is the server with the horrible load average, and it is shared hosting so I can't do anything about it really) < 1222457699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11:34:45 up 16 days, 23:43, 3 users, load average: 651.20, 482.98, 247.35 <-- ugh < 1222457719 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7:35pm up 9 days 20:54, 0 users, load average: 0.15, 0.14, 0.16 < 1222457722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ my machine < 1222457729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes about 10 seconds from hitting enter to the output currently < 1222457730 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rebooted for an efi upgrade, iirc < 1222457743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet optbot is still hogging memory < 1222457743 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what i have is basically a haskell-like syntax, from the standpoint of minimal keywords and you just say foo x y = .. to define a function, and give it a haskell like type signature < 1222457753 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK < 1222457773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: is that a reply to optbot, or something up on rutian? < 1222457774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND < 1222457774 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: !bf +++[>++++++++++++<-]>. < 1222457774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15752 root 16 0 14588 1296 1180 S 9999 0.5 0:00.00 ApplicationPool < 1222457774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15753 www-data 16 0 345m 4508 1748 S 9999 1.7 0:00.00 apache2 < 1222457774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15755 www-data 24 0 345m 4560 1776 S 9999 1.7 0:00.00 apache2 < 1222457775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1919 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 9999 2.7 0:04.41 mysqld < 1222457775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2450 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 516 2.7 0:17.56 mysqld < 1222457776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1933 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 493 2.7 0:16.79 mysqld < 1222457778 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14922 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 355 2.7 0:12.09 mysqld < 1222457780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14535 mysql 15 0 222m 7044 3008 S 310 2.7 0:10.56 mysqld < 1222457781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with that domain name what do you expect? :D < 1222457782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1930 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 153 2.7 0:05.22 mysqld < 1222457784 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1928 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 50 2.7 0:01.69 mysqld < 1222457786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1927 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 44 2.7 0:01.51 mysqld < 1222457789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sorts itself out after a second though... < 1222457792 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess a top glitch < 1222457793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so... < 1222457796 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9999% cpu o.O < 1222457810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true. Though I didn't pay for it, another developer on the supertux project pays for hosting < 1222457814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is dreamhost iirc < 1222457820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rather bad shared hosting < 1222457827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but better than sf.net or berlios.de at least < 1222457840 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreamhost are pretty good as far as shared hosting go < 1222457851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to oversell but they seemt o have stopped that now < 1222457856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm... as far as I can tell it is swap trashing < 1222457861 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ouch < 1222457865 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone misbehaving perhaps < 1222457869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 1 GB swap filled now, was just 500 MB a while ago < 1222457880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, can't say, ps aux only show own processes < 1222457884 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9480 tusho 16 0 172m 30m 980 S 0 11.8 0:00.86 ruby < 1222457885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15880 www-data 16 0 134m 16m 5668 S 0 6.5 1:02.10 php-cgi < 1222457885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15817 www-data 17 0 106m 9620 5004 S 0 3.7 1:08.50 php-cgi < 1222457885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1919 mysql 16 0 222m 7044 3008 S 0 2.7 0:04.41 mysqld < 1222457891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by tons of mysqls at 2.7% < 1222457897 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 11.8% ram usage for ruby is optbot < 1222457897 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: of course to really fry your brain you would want the set of dimensions itself to be an infinite-dimensional space < 1222457900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it loads all the logs into memory < 1222457904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, they blocked ps aux so you can only see yourself < 1222457921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ uname -a < 1222457921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux millhouse 2.4.32-grsec+f6b+gr217+nfs+a32+fuse23+tg+++opt+c8+gr2b-v6.194 #1 SMP Tue Jun 6 15:52:09 PDT 2006 i686 GNU/Linux < 1222457922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222457974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Millhouse is not a server. < 1222457975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is swap trashing and cpu trashing, since the swap trash ratio is rather moderate but the system is very very slow < 1222457983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is the one I'm sshed to < 1222457991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Millhouse is NOT a server. < 1222457995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what is it then? < 1222458000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a server. < 1222458007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what is it instead? < 1222458012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a server. < 1222458038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god.... please please stop trolling, no one think you are funny < 1222458095 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to imagine AnMaster begging on his knees. "Oh god... please, please, PLEASE stop trolling..." < 1222458107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no it wasn't begging on my knees < 1222458110 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1222458126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a "sigh, soon time to ignore again" < 1222458224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw how many of you know of the ssh abort sequence? < 1222458230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I do < 1222458232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newline ~ . < 1222458239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222458247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now everyone paying attention does < 1222458260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, certainly and they can claim they knew it all along < 1222458277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just used it < 1222458832 0 :Corun__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1222458851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1222459416 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222459464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222459837 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-33-156.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222459994 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/balls.jpg < 1222460000 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck is this giant ball < 1222460012 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that shit a triple of numbers? < 1222460026 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x, y, 0! < 1222460029 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's three! < 1222460249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know but maybe it's a syntax problem? try liberally adding parentheses, including around the whole triple < 1222460263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know mathematica though < 1222460284 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the expression : Sphere[{xcharyb[\[Epsilon], \[Alpha], t], < 1222460284 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ycharyb[\[Epsilon], \[Alpha], t], 0}, .5] < 1222460310 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it can work, I stole it from somewhere else < 1222460321 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tweaked some stuff to make it fit the problem < 1222460365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something is not being calculated all the way to a number? < 1222460380 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why :o < 1222460388 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my main problem with Mathematica < 1222460403 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once in a while, it simply refuses to compute a value while plotting something < 1222460410 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I never have any idea why < 1222460426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it works when you calculate the coordinates separately? < 1222460435 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, let's see. < 1222460498 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Doesn't seem to work. < 1222460537 0 :psygnisfive!i=82f5c439@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f5793d1266c55b90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222460546 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1222460549 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I think I found the problem < 1222460551 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all the people here :D < 1222460556 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than the last time i was here < 1222460573 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xcharyb is defined as x[\[Epsilon], aua[80, Sdef], \[Alpha], t] < 1222460574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRAINS.. < 1222460583 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I compute that with some values < 1222460595 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get fucking 1.57557*10^-7 a[80, Sdef] < 1222460602 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the cock < 1222460612 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't compute the function a? < 1222460643 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it works now < 1222460653 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently forgot some function-validating < 1222460720 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the plotting still doesn't work, but we're getting somewhere < 1222460807 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys < 1222460811 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come Mathematica can display its character set, but not the errors? < 1222460815 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's confusing! < 1222460818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been building turing machines in my philosophy and computers class < 1222460819 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its cool < 1222460819 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nigger cock shit butt < 1222460833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i built a machine that does remainder division. :T < 1222460833 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive : I was doing it before it was cool < 1222460846 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was never cool, slereah. < 1222460849 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my machine can love < 1222460855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it. someone hand me the mouthwash. < 1222460855 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is the Love Machine 9000. < 1222460865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wotwot < 1222460890 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doing it all with quintuples and a single tape machine < 1222460940 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i want to just built a universal machine so i dont have to come up with any more specific machines < 1222460949 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, it works! < 1222460953 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont know how to deal with that < 1222460965 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive : There's one in the original Turing article < 1222460968 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i want to just like.. do a MIPS-esque type architecture < 1222460974 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because thats easy to conceptualize for me < 1222460982 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doing memory access on a tape.. D: < 1222460986 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah: im sure there is < 1222461001 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if im not mistaken, he discusses a machine that takes another TM specification and simulates it < 1222461014 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when you say "specification" < 1222461014 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that still requires that i design other turing machines < 1222461021 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a terrible unary encoding < 1222461045 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to just get away from having to design task specific machines and abstract out to something general < 1222461062 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive : Use my Love Machine 9000! < 1222461065 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that TM specifications arent general for this machine < 1222461066 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the point < 1222461068 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a general Turing machine. < 1222461091 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure it works. I haven't tried in a while. < 1222461096 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/NTCM < 1222461108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: maybe write a compiler... < 1222461136 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im just gonna try and build a mips-like machine. < 1222461137 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1222461140 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure this < 1222461149 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're using VisualTuring to build out machines < 1222461159 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and visual turing is a 4-tuple simulator < 1222461170 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesnt have like.. proper "states" right < 1222461176 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of states + transition actions < 1222461183 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it has is action-state things < 1222461202 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that each state has a particular action necessarily associated with it < 1222461208 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either do nothing, move right, move left, or write a symbol < 1222461225 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the machines end up with these absurdly hard to follow designs < 1222461246 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the states themselves dont seem to be able to REPRESENT anything < 1222461266 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho luckily you can use the do-nothing states as proper states < 1222461288 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also doesnt show state transitions, so you cant follow the behavior of the machine < 1222461300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222461323 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also got a crappy user interface < 1222461324 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1222461332 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to drag out these action-state things < 1222461346 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have to CHANGE TOOLS to connect it to another state < 1222461358 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make transitions < 1222461373 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to change tools AGAIN to specify the conditions of the transition < 1222461385 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to change tools AGAIN to delete anything < 1222461390 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really a pain in the ass to use < 1222461401 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its java. < 1222461423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you edit the tape, you have to click the tape, and then navigate it, tape-cell by tape-cell, using your arrow keys < 1222461431 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant just click on a tape cell and edit it. < 1222461523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, the only positive thing about this is that you can sue your school for RSI damages afterwards? < 1222461533 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably cant even do that < 1222461553 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSI? < 1222461568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repetitive strain injury < 1222461579 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I sue Wolfram for that? < 1222461604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful, software always contains a heap of disclaimers doesn't it < 1222461645 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1222461653 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should build an awesome turing machine simulator < 1222461654 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1222461714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: now you're really hurting Slereah ;( < 1222461773 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1222461780 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah's not a turing machine simulator < 1222461808 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT NOT? < 1222461820 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT < 1222461826 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It totally simulates a Turing machine dude < 1222461858 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1222461867 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot? < 1222461875 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN FRENCHBOY. < 1222461879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: pay attention to the grammar < 1222461936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if slereah's's would be legal english < 1222461948 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1222461961 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.. < 1222462003 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that two elisioned sesses are combined in one, technically < 1222462006 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you'd pronounce it like that tho. it'd probably just be pronounced /sliri@z @z/ < 1222462013 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually i guess how you'd pronounct slereah's's < 1222462030 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah: its not an elisioned s tho < 1222462041 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones an affix, the other is a contraction < 1222462047 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't combine them < 1222462055 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only combine them with plural and possessive < 1222462066 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1222462069 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "The Pattersons' house" < 1222462078 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can >:| < 1222462088 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE THE POWER < 1222462088 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't. < 1222462093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BELIEVE IN YOURSELF! < 1222462131 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmon guys, lets design a universal machine using 5-tuples < 1222462137 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single tape < 1222462146 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a mips-like design. :D < 1222462157 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no registers tho, that'd be silly. < 1222462185 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not mips like but simple and properly CPU-ish < 1222462209 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are some fundamental operations we need? < 1222462225 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operation 1 : Getting the Love Machine 9000 :o < 1222462247 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah < 1222462253 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want me to have sex with you just say so. < 1222462302 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Love Machine 9000 is the official name of NTCM. < 1222462316 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the unofficial one < 1222462319 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm never too sure < 1222462325 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really had to use it officially < 1222462773 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, that piece of shit Mathematica is working < 1222462781 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very good at error warnings < 1222462788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR < 1222462789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNINGS < 1222462799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING < 1222462802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERRORS < 1222462841 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have a good reference for a simple but not-completely incomprehensible RISC design? < 1222462856 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misc < 1222462858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say "love machine" is a perverse name for a Nested Tropical Cyclone Model < 1222462888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: what's wrong with subleq? :) < 1222462928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said not-completely incomprehensible :P < 1222462929 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : Sum tropical love < 1222462938 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive : Brainfuck? < 1222462948 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, define "instruction" < 1222462956 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "RISC", too. < 1222462966 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X80 is RISC. < 1222462970 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it 81. < 1222462975 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, X80's. < 1222462980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: misc < 1222463026 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean specific models, tusho < 1222463032 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misc is not a specific model :P < 1222463049 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many instructions would you consider a RISC? < 1222463055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misc 1.35 beta < 1222463065 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrrrr < 1222463068 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I meant mips < 1222463070 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1222463072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about the quantity, it's about having reduced some original quantity < 1222463080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mips is fun < 1222463089 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im considering mips. i know some stuff about it already. < 1222463091 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok : Wouldn't any qualify? < 1222463102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: jsmips < 1222463108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := mips owns < 1222463169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Which CPU architecture do you prefer? < 1222463169 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1222463170 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Here's a hint for writing Glass code: make every line a 0-stack-change element. The code is less efficient, but wildly more understandable. < 1222463174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: http://github.com/kobs/js-mips/ < 1222463177 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual code < 1222463178 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lulz < 1222463181 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222463184 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: im actually going to try and implement it on a 5-tuple turing machine. :P < 1222463191 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: ah < 1222463193 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be hard < 1222463197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222463201 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why i want simple ;) < 1222463211 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: subleq < 1222463219 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also want comprehensible. :P < 1222463225 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: tough shit < 1222463228 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1222463254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't GregorR make quite an extensive set of basic operations for subleg < 1222463259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBLEG < 1222463260 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n. < 1222463261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :below the leg < 1222463271 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222463272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not n < 1222463273 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222463293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adj. < 1222463353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBLET < 1222463355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n. < 1222463362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a subtle mispeling < 1222463375 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you did thar < 1222463391 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck? < 1222463404 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying. < 1222463405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brianfuck < 1222463435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brawnfuck < 1222463446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately sublet is a real word < 1222463448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English < 1222463450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a common one though < 1222463459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1222463463 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's common enough < 1222463466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard it < 1222463486 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I subleted your mom last night. < 1222463496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i submit that we sublet that meaning < 1222463501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard your mom last night < 1222463528 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I heard you like mudkips < 1222463534 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my mom, apparently < 1222463575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, mudkips < 1222463579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasty < 1222463702 0 :chrisdb!n=chatzill@cpc2-clif7-0-0-cust826.nott.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222463723 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y HULO THAR < 1222463736 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1222463750 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I herd u want to make ur own programming language < 1222463795 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking about it for a hobby. < 1222463819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION subletty hides the mudkips < 1222463824 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what this is all about. < 1222463847 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: tell us all about it < 1222463891 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're aroused by such concepts < 1222463895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: ignore Slereah < 1222463900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you need to sacrifice some goats < 1222463901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: well some of you < 1222463916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this channel is about making new and strange languages half the time < 1222463927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the time it's about random crap because we're rubbish at enforcing topicality < 1222463928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that much? < 1222463952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I tend to enforce topicality more than most people, so I see the channel as topical more than the rest of you do, I expect < 1222463959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222463962 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is effectively an anarchy < 1222463972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is never on, and when he is he never uses his op powers < 1222463989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION expects lament to randomly join and kick tusho at that moment < 1222464000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222464012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tusho is not spamming _now_ ... < 1222464021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er89werdf < 1222464022 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sd94u90234j < 1222464022 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't much to tell. I haven't done anything yet except reread the books gathering dust on my shelves about compiler writing (although I was only planning on a slow demo interpreter). I like programming languages which let you customise pretty much everything - Smalltalk and Ruby are examples of languages which allow you to override stuff which is hard coded in other languages. But... < 1222464022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just to make the point < 1222464023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gi48954 < 1222464023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 < 1222464024 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...most, like Ruby, have some limits, or have annoyances like the lack of support for proper operator precedence (Smalltalk). < 1222464024 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1222464032 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if I ever got it working it will be slow as hell. < 1222464035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I DONE < 1222464035 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who cares. < 1222464039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: well < 1222464044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, most of the languages we come up with are slow as hell < 1222464044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk's operator precedence is fine imo :P < 1222464048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't bother about impractical ideas < 1222464059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imagine an AnMaster written feather interp... < 1222464062 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1222464069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact a decent proportion of the languages we come up with are theoretically impossible to implement, and that's been proved in some cases < 1222464086 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it just works left to right! < 1222464088 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rubbish. < 1222464091 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I added some _posix and now it runs Hello World in 328472384723487234 years instead of 328472384723487239" < 1222464094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222464094 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: so what < 1222464097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is chrisdb? < 1222464099 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator precedence is confusing anyway < 1222464100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new here? < 1222464101 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a newbie < 1222464103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222464108 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- mathematician < 1222464113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what language were you talking about? < 1222464128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which languages are impossible to implement? :o < 1222464134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the time it took you to type that > the time it'd take to look up < 1222464158 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left to right is confusing. I mean, you just don't expect 5 + 3 * 2 to evaluate as 16. < 1222464160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets ready to poison the competition < 1222464171 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: YOU dont < 1222464181 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only because you have knowledge of mathematical operator precedence. :P < 1222464186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here 5 + 3 * 2 would probably evaluate as 10023 for no particularly good reason, some of the time < 1222464188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, I expect it to evaluate according to math rules ;P < 1222464192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java2K does that, IIRC < 1222464196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh? < 1222464198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, intercal? < 1222464205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222464210 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, operator precedence should exist but be configurable. :p I want a programming language where I can increase the precedence of + or decrease it as I want. < 1222464214 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: haskell < 1222464215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, INTERCAL doesn't have the usual arithmetic operators at all < 1222464219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also designed by mathematicians < 1222464223 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: such a thing exists < 1222464228 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its called parentheses. < 1222464229 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads me to believe that you're all a bunch of precedence-obsessed crazies < 1222464236 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Pure functional languages are annoying. < 1222464237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's a real language, but a very elegant one < 1222464243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would be almost eso if it hadn't caught on < 1222464244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, actually I get 5 + 3 * 2 to a stack of 15,2 with 2 at the top < 1222464244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222464246 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: mathematics is a purely functional language. < 1222464250 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be consistent < 1222464252 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is annoying, chrisdb < 1222464255 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is awesome < 1222464256 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you want mathematics or you don't, chrisdb < 1222464258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, that is assuming rpn and that empty stack is 0 ;P < 1222464266 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG scheme < 1222464267 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3it < 1222464273 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's a real language, but also an unstable equilibrium :) < 1222464283 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck Common Lisp < 1222464297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Prolog (at least the swi-prolog implementation) lets you manipulate operator precedence. At least you can specify the precedence for user-defined operators. < 1222464299 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Scheme isn't truly pure functional though. I like the ability to express mathematics concepts easily.. I just want to be able to store state in a non-painful way. < 1222464310 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some programming problems, the easiest solution is persistent state. < 1222464326 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state is an illusion < 1222464326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow critical mass < 1222464328 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell makes persistent state feel like having teeth extracted. < 1222464330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, sure, start another process that calls itself tail recursively (the erlang way) < 1222464356 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: wrong < 1222464357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(erlang is purely functional, and concurrent) < 1222464371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ignore AnMaster, he's still pleased to himself to no end that he managed to grasp basic erlang < 1222464380 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state is really just a state object that continuously gets replaced as it gets passed from function to function ;D < 1222464380 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, state in haskell is trivial < 1222464382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ignore tusho, he hates me < 1222464386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no reason < 1222464393 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho hates everyone < 1222464398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, indeed < 1222464401 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If by "no reason" you mean "close to everything you say is wrong or misguided"... < 1222464404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always ignore tusho and AnMaster when talking to each other < 1222464407 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is true. I think the upcoming (for about 50 years) Perl 6 will have user defined operators won't it? < 1222464413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with oerjan < 1222464418 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: Also, this channel is never this fast, ever. < 1222464420 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes at that tender young age where a boy is supposed to hate the entire world < 1222464421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both tusho and AnMaster are good to talk with individually < 1222464432 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm tusho tender... < 1222464437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never allow them to talk to each other, it always ends in tears < 1222464438 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes tusho:: < 1222464440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ah yes he is < 1222464444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: At least Perl 6 will have a whole lot of operators; at some point there were some non-ascii ones, too. < 1222464444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, 13 iirc? < 1222464449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: critical mass, i said < 1222464450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up psygnisfive < 1222464458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no one can blame him, he will grow up at some point < 1222464459 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1222464463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: shut up. < 1222464468 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1222464470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: shut up. < 1222464475 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive is a dirty pedo < 1222464484 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the guy with a pedobear t-shirt :D < 1222464497 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but my shirt is awesome < 1222464500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I still have psygnisfive on ignore < 1222464503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope no one is a pedo here < 1222464505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, someone tell AnMaster to stop fucking acting like "SIGH, well he will GROW UP at one point", I can't because I'm too busy telling psygnisfive to shut up. < 1222464508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering why I only saw half the conversation < 1222464513 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1222464517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and based on what I saw, probably I'll leave the ignore there a bit longer < 1222464519 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: about the only easy way to get persistent state in Haskell is to pass your variables as arguments through all your functions. Which is damn annoying. I'm not a member of the 'global variables are always evil' brigade. < 1222464520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why did you have him on ignore? < 1222464523 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: What. < 1222464526 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: StateT, man. < 1222464530 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: if you'd stop freaking out about your age i wouldn't enjoy poking fun at you so much. :D < 1222464534 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I am a member of the 'goto is evil' brigade. < 1222464536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: saying offtopic stuff I didn't particularly want to listen to < 1222464542 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses goto :( < 1222464546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I haven't fucking freaked out about my age for months. < 1222464547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: do you consider COME FROM evil? < 1222464548 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use ? in C. < 1222464555 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet i mention it once and you freak out < 1222464559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I use ? in C but not goto < 1222464561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, ?: in C is ok. < 1222464564 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mention it in a purely humorous context! < 1222464564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in generated code < 1222464565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: because it's fucking old, and pisses me off to no end < 1222464570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my generated code contains lots of gotos < 1222464571 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it PISSES YOU OFF < 1222464571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I avoid goto in C < 1222464577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a clear sign that you're immature. < 1222464578 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. because it's the perfect setup for AnMaster whining about how "OHHH HE'LL GROW UP" < 1222464579 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Come from would be evil if it existed in a mainstream language. As it is, it's just funny. < 1222464581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are some valid reasons for goto in C < 1222464590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but they've never happened to me < 1222464595 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto is shit if you're an idiot < 1222464601 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, most programmers are idiots. :P < 1222464601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what they are, though < 1222464612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am annoyed by things. Ergo, I am immature." Somebody give psygnisfive a Logic Medal. < 1222464626 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're pissed off by the mere mention of your age < 1222464631 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a sign if immaturity. < 1222464639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some error handling, you need to free a lot of stuff at the end of all error paths, and it can error out in many places, so a goto error; then error: at the end of the function after the normal return < 1222464646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used that in FILE and SOCK in cfunge < 1222464650 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mature person would realize that it was said in a humorous context and would GO WITH THE HUMOR < 1222464663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: normally I instead put the relevant section into a function and use return < 1222464665 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they realize that it's not an insult but merely good fun < 1222464673 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: yes they would - if they found it funny. But your "joke" contained little other content than "Ha ha, tusho's age, ha" < 1222464675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and generated code are the only reasons to me < 1222464683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't amusing, it's just annoying, as it's been played out for how many months now? < 1222464686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other famous one is jumping out of nested loops < 1222464687 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you had read it, tusho < 1222464692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I found psygnisfive funny < 1222464696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a nice rule of thumb: never use goto to jump backwards < 1222464697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he wasn't the only one < 1222464698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd notice i was half making fun of anmaster. < 1222464708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the legit cases involve jumping forwards < 1222464716 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you were too caught up in your OMG STOP SAYING IM 13 GUYS UGH shit to see it < 1222464718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc there are illegit cases involving jumping forwards too < 1222464719 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: so i should find it funny because i dislike AnMaster and you were making fun of him. < 1222464722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riight < 1222464738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222464750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in generated code you could jump backwards with it though < 1222464772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222464775 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever tusho. now im just going to use your age against as often as possible since you're such an immature twat < 1222464783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I avoid nested loops where I have to jump out and try some other design if possible < 1222464786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, IIRC C-INTERCAL's generated code never does a backwards goto < 1222464791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i'd say that doing intentionally to annoy me would be a sign of immaturity. < 1222464796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does do backwards longjmps on occasion < 1222464796 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to stoop to my level now? < 1222464800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't really go forwards < 1222464809 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level of a 13 year old? < 1222464822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doing forwards longjmp wouldn't be valid < 1222464832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not forwards in time < 1222464838 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORWARD IN TIME < 1222464842 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a TIME MACHINE < 1222464843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could jump forwards with longjmp inside a loop < 1222464853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by getting the destination on the first iteration and jumping on the second < 1222464855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure that is allowed < 1222464859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why that's useful < 1222464862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is allowed < 1222464866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? weird < 1222464888 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, currying seems limited. What happens if I want to create a new function by specifying the second argument of another function rather than the first argument? I know there are ways around it, but it becomes longer. I want a short, elegant syntax for deriving a function which takes n-1 arguments from a function which takes n arguments no matter which argument I want to eliminate. < 1222464902 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: cut < 1222464903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scheme < 1222464906 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in an srfi somewhere < 1222464912 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdm: in what language?? < 1222464922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the restrictions are: setjmp must have been called before longjmp, the function containing setjmp mustn't have returned, and the call to setjmp itself must be on its own, the control expression of a switch, or compared to a constant in the control expression of an if < 1222464930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, auto variables + longjmp = craziness < 1222464932 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb even. < 1222464966 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222464977 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: just in general. < 1222464982 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222464989 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have the ability to define higher-order functions < 1222464990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then its trivial. < 1222465008 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I really, really, like a lot of the abilities of lisp. It's just the billions of brackets which put me off. < 1222465021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: lol, are you serious < 1222465031 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's seriously ugly. < 1222465034 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: the brackets aren't that much of an issue if you have an editor and you do proper indentation. < 1222465036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what java programmers say about lisp, not people who have actually done research on it and tried it :) < 1222465066 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, any C-like language that's programmed functionally will use the same number of parens. < 1222465070 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or braces < 1222465070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is awesome < 1222465071 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or brackets < 1222465077 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you oklofok. < 1222465083 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it also seems to lack infix operators. Which makes the bracketing even worse. < 1222465092 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's craziness, people mocking each other, and people actually having a conversation about coding < 1222465094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacks infix operators < 1222465108 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the operators that replace them are not strictly binary < 1222465108 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time < 1222465108 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything has to be a list surrounded by brackets. < 1222465108 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly. < 1222465129 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: the same is true of any situation where you have precedence issues, or where you're using functions. < 1222465162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, hm I agree to some extent that S-Expressions are ugly. though I quite like it's syntax anyway < 1222465175 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the fuck over it chris, the downsides of the parens are minimal. :P < 1222465181 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-184.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222465186 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, look into some of the alternative versions of lisp that have infix operators. < 1222465210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, m-expressions? < 1222465211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of preprocessed Lisp might be both faster to write and annoy the hell out of sexp fans < 1222465215 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222465217 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant like.. < 1222465220 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARC or whatever < 1222465224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably enough reason to write the preprocessor by itself < 1222465230 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I don't really like many C-like languages either. I use them for work sometimes, but counting damn {s and }s is annoying. I prefer languages where block delineators are a bit bigger and easy to count than a little squiggle. < 1222465237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, now I think you annoyed tusho more than ever < 1222465245 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: why the fuck are you counting {}s? < 1222465247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: what about Python indentation? < 1222465253 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is good. < 1222465260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that because indentation gets mangled too easily, with the sort of things I do < 1222465268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike indention based blocks < 1222465270 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then your editor sucks < 1222465279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C isn't too bad with a decent editor because you can reconstruct the indentation from the { and } < 1222465280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah ais523 I agree < 1222465283 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, i think you've got some fucking stupid editing habits there < 1222465285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, my editors are fine for editing Python < 1222465289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not editing I'm worried about < 1222465296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider pasting into IRC, for instance < 1222465301 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you forget one, get a cryptic unhelpful error message from the compiler, and then spend ages trying to figure out where you missed off a }. < 1222465316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: so use an editor that autobalances them < 1222465318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I programmed bsmnt_bot to do Brainfuck, the entire program was in an eval with \n followed by varying numbers of spaces < 1222465322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was basically impossible to read < 1222465328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ZZZZ" < 1222465330 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chris: or you could just get an editor that does automatic balancing and never worry... < 1222465341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ugh yeah < 1222465344 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: do you use a mac? < 1222465349 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1222465355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, try emacs, it is good < 1222465369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, or kate, if you want something easier to learn < 1222465375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is a bit hard to learn but excellent once you've learnt it < 1222465379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Kate is pretty good all-round < 1222465380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222465382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1222465383 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard emacs is a good OS... I mean text editor. < 1222465388 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: well, i dont know what editors there are for non-macs but find one with paren balancing and highlighting < 1222465389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I still use kate a lot < 1222465391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: vim? < 1222465415 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i believe you should now be yelling at psygnisfive for being an apple fanboy like you do me (", i dont know what editors there are for non-macs") < 1222465416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, he said text editor, not headache < 1222465417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222465456 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that being a mac fanboy, tusho? < 1222465456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, why? as he acts nicely otherwise I don't see any reason to do that < 1222465458 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont use non-macs < 1222465465 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why should i know of non-mac text editors? < 1222465466 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DURR < 1222465498 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe when you're older you'll know how to take pot shots at people with more skill. < 1222465508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, agreed. < 1222465528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i don't think you are < 1222465535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once made a person cry over IRC. < 1222465542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AnMaster slings accusations of 'mac fanboy' to me all the time for similar things < 1222465542 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see if we can make tusho commit suicide! :D < 1222465557 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see how liking someone less or more makes them more or less of a mac fanboy, do you? < 1222465565 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, tusho, you care too much about what other people think. < 1222465567 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it. < 1222465598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't, just pointing out the obvious and glaring hypocrisy :D < 1222465644 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/ < 1222465653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, everyone I hate is not, as far as I know ,a mac fanboy < 1222465656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I don't hate many people < 1222465660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's just coincidence < 1222465668 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why someone would take a decent underlying OS and build a UI that looks like it's made of duplo blocks on top of it. :( < 1222465684 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a mouse with only one button, but god knows two or three is confusing obviously. < 1222465692 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | variables are "bound" simply because that's a very easy and explicit way to represent structure < 1222465695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, that last thing they changed < 1222465697 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplo blocks? < 1222465703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc modern macs got more than one button < 1222465712 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222465713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: please break up the argument, by any means possible < 1222465713 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the compiler < 1222465714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one butan" < 1222465716 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and its not like you can't use multi-button ice < 1222465718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, don't think their laptops do yet, but their mice have < 1222465722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mice* < 1222465725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how will I break up the argument with the compiler? < 1222465725 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm checking out the sources of scheme48... can you 8d i < 1222465726 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever used one button mice, really < 1222465729 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I mean macs are obviously aimed at the 4 - 8 yo market segment. < 1222465739 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they now < 1222465741 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so < 1222465750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: 'lisp has WAY TOO MANY PARENTHESES' 'macs are for stupid users and only have one button' < 1222465760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you fill any more stereotypical, uninformed blanket criticisms pls < 1222465765 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, chrisdb < 1222465766 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets compare < 1222465770 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X < 1222465777 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its mostly grey theme < 1222465777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, you could combine the insults, and have an iLisp which used iParentheses < 1222465781 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Windows XP < 1222465782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i(setq a b i) < 1222465789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and is marketed to the 4-8 year old market segment! < 1222465791 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its BLUE AND GREEN theme that looks like a tonka toy < 1222465793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only has one parentheses < 1222465796 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parenthesis < 1222465799 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Mac OS X is definitely aimed at children. < 1222465811 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Windows XP is as bad. Because they were trying to copy the Mac look... and almost succeeded. < 1222465814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: but then you'd end up with Unlambda Junior < 1222465818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1222465821 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did they almost succeed < 1222465827 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made something that looks NOTHING like OS X < 1222465837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, what OS do you use? < 1222465843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where chrisdb says something without basis to 'prove' his stereotypical, uninformed insult! < 1222465847 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...wait... < 1222465848 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only very colorful thing about OS X is the default window button colors < 1222465857 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are red, yellow, and green < 1222465860 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly Windows and Linux. < 1222465879 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is crap, but there's some software that won't run on anything else. < 1222465886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, what about the "aqua" look in 10.0 or so? < 1222465888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I shot virtualbox < 1222465894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: shot? < 1222465899 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aqua look? you mean the horizontal bars? < 1222465907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, blue buttons in 10.0 < 1222465909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'how do I shot X' meme < 1222465917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally spiderman saying 'how do i shot web' < 1222465920 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they have blue buttons on windows?? < 1222465922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, haven't you even seen OS X 10.0 < 1222465933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x 10.0 is hilariously awful < 1222465938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed < 1222465939 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 10.3 onwards is fine... < 1222465943 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the window controls were always red yellow and onward < 1222465945 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1222465946 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit tusho < 1222465950 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop priming me < 1222465950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't OS X 10.0 redundant? < 1222465953 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red yellow and green* < 1222465956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it should just be OS 10.0? < 1222465965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1222465976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is a brand... < 1222465979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is the 10.x versions < 1222465993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X v10.major_number_that_actually_changes < 1222465995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite silly, really < 1222466001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah no, I think the X is like NT, meaning "we changed the whole thing and made it not crash when one program crashes" < 1222466003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1222466006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION understands computers, but doesn't really understand computer marketing people, no matter what it is they're marketing < 1222466020 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also means "We rebranded NeXT" :P < 1222466021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Macosxpb.png < 1222466028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ah yes that too < 1222466029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: will make you puke with hilarity < 1222466039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the public beta had the APPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MENU BAR < 1222466041 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: ok.. what about it? the only annoying thing is the horizontal bars < 1222466041 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean .. WHAT < 1222466045 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense at all < 1222466046 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222466054 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse not < 1222466062 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats just stupidness. < 1222466062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yeah was that menu clickable? < 1222466064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the apple < 1222466074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it lets you open two programs at once, and use the menu for both of them < 1222466076 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1222466077 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raskin wasn't working there anymore, what do you expect :P < 1222466093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1222466094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a capability that Windows has and Mac OS X doesn't have, mostly for the reason that it isn't actually useful < 1222466095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, then it must have been uggly when menus didn't fit in < 1222466102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1222466105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was in the public beta... < 1222466108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before retail release < 1222466113 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: windows most certainly DOESNT have that ability < 1222466119 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mac os x programs" was a funny joke < 1222466121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed, and OS 9 had the apple in the same place they have now < 1222466125 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222466169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a capability that Windows has and Mac OS X doesn't have, mostly for the reason that it isn't actually useful <-- yes so does linux, depending on settings < 1222466182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'linux' has no gui, it's meaningless < 1222466187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, especially in KDE you can choose how the menus work < 1222466189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean 'yes so does KDE' or 'yes so does Gnome' < 1222466191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222466195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, 'Linux' doesn't by itself have a UI < 1222466201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222466202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GUI < 1222466205 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a KDE person. < 1222466207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, he means menus local to the window instead of at the top of the screen < 1222466210 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222466212 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like Gnome < 1222466215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people talking about a "Linux GUI" generally are referring to either KDE or Gnome < 1222466218 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux by itself doesn't have a TUI :P < 1222466219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, I couldn't agree more < 1222466222 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you cant click on two menu bars at once in ANY situation < 1222466225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people who use something else are unlikely to make that mistake < 1222466228 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, KDE > Gnome < 1222466229 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: how is os x more childish than KDE :| < 1222466231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, KDE for me too < 1222466234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yes it does < 1222466236 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222466236 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its not like makes any sense. < 1222466240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course KDE > Gnome. < 1222466244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, depends on what version you compare < 1222466244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, K > G. :p < 1222466245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: plz say how http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Leopard_Desktop.png is more childish than kde < 1222466245 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1222466249 0 :Corun!n=Corun@host81-154-61-144.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222466250 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if KDE > Gnome < 1222466253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can connect to a serial port and send magic SysRq over the serial connection < 1222466255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Macosxpb.png is more childish than anything < 1222466255 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Gnome > Enlightenment < 1222466259 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Enlightenment > KDE? < 1222466262 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Touché :P < 1222466266 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but that's irrelevant nowadays < 1222466267 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Leopard_Desktop.png < 1222466272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is relevant < 1222466280 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike the transparent menu bar < 1222466282 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to try 4.1. They say that they've ironed out a lot of the problems with Plasma. < 1222466283 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 3D dock < 1222466286 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're idiotic ideas < 1222466289 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know if it is any good or not. < 1222466291 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: justify how http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Leopard_Desktop.png is more childish than kde < 1222466301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, 3D look and transparent menu bar, I hope you can turn those off? < 1222466307 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 3d look of the dock: yes < 1222466309 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transparent menu bar: no < 1222466311 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X does its best to act like a toy in every regard. Useless 3D effects, things bouncing and "genie"ing about, nice and flashy for a two-year-old but I want a fucking OPERATING SYSTEM, not a toy. < 1222466313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes you can < 1222466314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, then well childish < 1222466319 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning off the transparent menu bar is trivial < 1222466324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1222466327 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atleast since the first update < 1222466330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: useless 3d effects, genieing about? < 1222466333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used an os x system < 1222466337 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Yes. < 1222466338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, agreed < 1222466339 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Often. < 1222466345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: OS X does two different things: it tries to be easily usable and it tries to be a toy. < 1222466345 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: You can disable /many/ effects. < 1222466347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all 3D effects are useless < 1222466348 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: pretty HUGE icons which pop up where you hover over them, special effects all over the place, wobbling windows... < 1222466349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them are, though < 1222466354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. < 1222466359 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all eye candy for five year olds. < 1222466360 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And often do not. < 1222466365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like the wobbly windows in Compiz, although my brother doesn't < 1222466365 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: its also all optional < 1222466376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hate such stuff < 1222466377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1222466390 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so chrisdb, do you have any arguments that AREN'T strawmen? < 1222466390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gentoo-wiki.com/images/d/df/AnMaster_KDE20080112.png < 1222466391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1222466394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Gnome because it gives me a nice simple UI for when I don't want to think, and I'm more used to doing complicated stuff over the command line so don't care what the desktop environment is then < 1222466395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a desktop I like < 1222466399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 3D stuff < 1222466403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll totally destroy my case by saying that I would /love/ a UI for X11 that resembled Windows 3.11. < 1222466406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Compiz has a ton of stuff that's rather useless, for example. < 1222466412 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1222466412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: twm is close < 1222466416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I wouldn't want that. < 1222466423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Yeah, but it has annoying focus properties. < 1222466426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also I've used CDE, that's pretty like Windows 3.11 < 1222466428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Patch it. < 1222466430 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tiny. < 1222466430 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: mac os doesnt have lots of 3D stuff. :P < 1222466433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it loads to shell by default, IIRC < 1222466435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My preferred UI tends to range from KDE to Ratpoison, depending upon my mood. < 1222466436 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Touché :) < 1222466436 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its got one stupid 3D dock thing now < 1222466440 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other than that, its got nothing < 1222466449 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MANY PEOPLE TALKING CAN'T KEEP UP *gives up* < 1222466449 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you count time machine but thats useless anyway. < 1222466453 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like KDE because it offers options and configurability instead of catering to the lowest common denominator. < 1222466458 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike Gnome. < 1222466460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, windows that are like a genie in a bottle? < 1222466465 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: *clap clap* < 1222466467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I used OS X, I seen it < 1222466470 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: optional? < 1222466473 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because KDE media frameworks etc tend to work well. < 1222466473 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn it off. < 1222466476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's just the minimize effect < 1222466477 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not that fucking hard. < 1222466484 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: You can change it from genie to scale, but not /off/. < 1222466484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i rarely ever minimize < 1222466486 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the Gnome ones are generally just about adequate. < 1222466486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: I like Gnome because if I'm going to do complicated options and configurability I'm unlikely to use my desktop environment for it anyway < 1222466489 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: The effect is unremovable. < 1222466490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can gregor < 1222466493 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn it off completely < 1222466496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, oh and you can't easily change font size with built in settings, sure you could edit some *.plist file < 1222466503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use some freeware tool that allows it < 1222466508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really it is like gnome < 1222466513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't allow a lot of settings < 1222466513 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: That option must be pretty damn well hidden because I've never managed to turn off all the stupid effects X_X < 1222466519 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E17 looks really cool... < 1222466519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact gnome allows *more* settings < 1222466532 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no-one's ever going to write software that takes advantage of its libraries. < 1222466537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gnome gets criticised for not *having* settings. < 1222466540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's E17? < 1222466542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1222466547 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enlightenment. < 1222466548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I say OS X is worse than Gnome < 1222466551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1222466553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enlightenment v. 17. < 1222466554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm a KDE user < 1222466557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And I agree. < 1222466566 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, gregor, you're right, you cant turn it off. < 1222466572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Gnome vs. KDE is one of those arguments that never goes away < 1222466575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm glad both exist < 1222466583 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i get for never actually minimizing windows ;D < 1222466585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, OS X *looks* a bit better out of the box... < 1222466593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n.b. although I use Gnome as the window manager and GDM, I tend to use KDE applications) < 1222466595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed, if you like eye candy < 1222466598 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AXIOM A: Linus prefers KDE to gnome. AXIOM B: Linus Torvalds is incapable of wrong. CONCLUSION: KDE is better than Gnome. < 1222466599 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of hate how people give 10 points about os x, 9 of them are debunked, and then even with only 1 point they consider that to be evidence that os x sucks < 1222466599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-P < 1222466600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which I don't < 1222466601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is good, since it's hard to change how it looks. :p < 1222466605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://gentoo-wiki.com/images/d/df/AnMaster_KDE20080112.png < 1222466606 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: its not terribly eye-candiful. < 1222466617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a decent KDE setup. < 1222466620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually all operating systems suck < 1222466627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, thanks, and no eye candy < 1222466631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1222466635 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree anmaster < 1222466636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got mine somewhat similar... < 1222466636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pick the one whose type of suckiness interferes least with what you want to do < 1222466637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's only relevant to talk about relative suckitude < 1222466639 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see so much eye candy < 1222466643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I use Plastik and the default icons... < 1222466651 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing people don't use to advocate Linux enough: installing software is truly easy. Point your tool of choice at an online repository, tell it what you want, and let it sort out all the dependencies for you automatically. < 1222466654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And full-screen windows. < 1222466655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can't stand that, I use kdeclassic < 1222466658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in my case I mostly don't care about Linux being bad at running Windows applications and Gnome being hard to configure < 1222466661 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard if you don't have fast internet access.. < 1222466671 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: that's not exactly EASY < 1222466673 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise it's easier than other systems, not harder. < 1222466676 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive done that numerous times < 1222466677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Plastik, of course, but KDEclassic is a fine theme. < 1222466678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I solved the hardware compatibility problems by buying a laptop designed to work with Linux < 1222466679 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it DOESNT work reliably. < 1222466682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : One thing people don't use to advocate Linux enough: installing software is truly easy. Point your tool of choice at an online repository, tell it what you want, and let it sort out all the dependencies for you automatically. <-- yep < 1222466686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kde-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/54708-2.png // my KDE look < 1222466696 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind that knowing all this crap about repositories is NOT intuitive < 1222466699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, it works very well on both Gentoo and Arch < 1222466700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very agreed < 1222466711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on which one? < 1222466713 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROPOSING A TRUCE: We all shut the fuck up about operating systems because we have never convinced one person and all we do is fling shit at other people without achieving anything. < 1222466714 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive had to do it on ubuntu < 1222466714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay? < 1222466715 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painful. < 1222466716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the Ubuntu repos contain two different INTERCAL implementations, I assume they're pretty complete < 1222466719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, never used ubuntu < 1222466720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1222466721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on repos being important < 1222466723 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: yes it is. What's hard about the idea of telling a tool where to look for software and what the name is of the software you want? < 1222466724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, my *Ratpoison* setup is quite different from everything else seen here. < 1222466725 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why cant people just like < 1222466725 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flings shit at everyone. < 1222466730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, how do you uninstall a *.pkg on OS X < 1222466731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provide a fucking install app? < 1222466732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full-screen terminal. < 1222466734 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an install link < 1222466734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROPOSING A TRUCE: We all shut the fuck up about operating systems because we have never convinced one person and all we do is fling shit at other people without achieving anything. < 1222466736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, not much else. < 1222466736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1222466739 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://oblisk.codu.org/ < 1222466745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, not just delete the app, since it installed stuff in /System/Library/ < 1222466745 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: go into applications < 1222466751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, so that fails < 1222466755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need proper uninstall < 1222466764 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, thats a problem of the app being ridiculous then < 1222466766 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're right < 1222466770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, apple xcode < 1222466770 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some apps are ridiculous < 1222466770 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: how is rpm any different from a .msi on windows? < 1222466777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I'm sure it is ridiculous yeah < 1222466778 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recommendation: AppZapper < 1222466782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where everyone decided that they prefer flinging shit to actually talking about relevant stuff! < 1222466784 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the dependencies thing? < 1222466789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You have an LCARS theme? :) < 1222466792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, it was apple's own xcode. < 1222466798 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just basically have files and locations to automatically put them. < 1222466800 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still ridiculous. < 1222466805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, talk about something relevant then < 1222466812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Keymaker's come up with a new language < 1222466816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very tarpitty < 1222466818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppZapper, anmaster. it should be built into Mac OS but its not < 1222466819 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would if it weren't for the GIANT FLOOD OF PEOPLE YELLING ABOUT OPERATING SYTSEMS < 1222466820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, even windows got better uninstall than OS X < 1222466824 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true. < 1222466826 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to an extent. < 1222466829 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it POINTLESS < 1222466829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows uninstall sucks < 1222466831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really sucks < 1222466838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Figurehead < 1222466848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYBODY SHUT UP K THX BAI < 1222466850 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never really uninstall stuff tho so im not familiar with how to do it :p < 1222466852 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows registry sucks. Uninstalling a program should be as simple as deleting the directory containing it in most cases. < 1222466858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF < 1222466862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, while I never had linux package manager fail to uninstall stuff < 1222466863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1222466865 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Settings stored centrally is a crappy idea. < 1222466873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, some of us would like to TALK ABOUT ESOLANGS < 1222466877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am reading figurehead now, seems interesting < 1222466885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did, once, but that's due to deliberately running the version of the Ubuntu repos which break at random now and again < 1222466887 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: i ahree. apple needs to fix its uninstall utilities. < 1222466892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I figured out what had gone wrong and fixed it by hand < 1222466898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes, figurehead is interesting AFAICT < 1222466901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I used many OS but never ubuntu < 1222466905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't speak for it < 1222466909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure how different it is from a Minsky machine < 1222466919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd discuss how interesting it is ... if it weren't for everyone getting nowhere with a stupid conversation about OSs! :D < 1222466920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's just Debian with different defaults < 1222466933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hardly used debian very much either < 1222466939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1222466972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it was ages ago I used something *.rpm, Red Hat-pre-fedora, maybe 7.0 or so < 1222466974 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :app zapper is a good uninstaller tho. < 1222466979 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a shame its not free < 1222466994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, well on linux you get it with the OS :P < 1222467007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what luxury < 1222467009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you don't really use binary packages much at all? < 1222467013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I do < 1222467013 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the uninstaller free with the OS, yes, i know < 1222467016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Arch Linux < 1222467019 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On Linux you get *everything* with the OS. Including the kitchen sink. < 1222467021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which format are those in? < 1222467028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, custom format < 1222467030 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple has a lot of problems with how it does things, unfortunately. < 1222467038 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-33-156.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222467041 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it, but... you do get a shitload of stuff you never use if you select a default install for most distros. < 1222467047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ apt-cache search kitchen sink < 1222467047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xemacs21-basesupport - Editor and kitchen sink -- compiled elisp support files < 1222467052 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsfhkudsklfabhjkafkdjsdafhksjlfehkuwlhiuafwhioadfshiuafhiufwfwqdwjdhjdjhbhjbxakhjsadkjqwrjkhqwkhjqwehjkqewjkhhjkqerwhjkl qwehrjkeqwjkrkehjajahkrwhjkewr < 1222467055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, PKGBUILD to construct packages, actual packages are *i686.pkg.tgz iirc < 1222467098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the PKGBUILD files are bash on turbo basically < 1222467099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think I'll just stick with my .pax.{lzma|bz2|gz} format I'm using for C-INTERCAL < 1222467122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it confuses people, yet works anyway < 1222467152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure that is source code format < 1222467154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different < 1222467159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1222467170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, how many people here use cpio? < 1222467180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar v. cpio is supposed to be one of the big Holy Wars in Unixen < 1222467185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seem to have missed it completely < 1222467191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I did use it once to extract the files from a *.rpm iirc < 1222467201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it ended before I got used to Linux? < 1222467207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's just raging somewhere I don't know? < 1222467217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a war is news to me < 1222467228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought cpio was simply an old format < 1222467238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently pax was invented in an attempt to end the war < 1222467297 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, http://tusho.net/ is the first XHTML5+RDFa page ever, especially because that hasn't actually ben specced yet. < 1222467305 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*been < 1222467344 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Lua have operator overloading? < 1222467382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, it works in Konq atm < 1222467388 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, it should < 1222467396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, xhtml5? < 1222467398 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :view the source, it's just xhtml5+extra properties and shit that define RDF stuff < 1222467402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: html5 serialised as XML, basically < 1222467407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222467409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html5 is defined in the abstract < 1222467414 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then html and xml serializations are defined < 1222467417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: hmm... there should actually be a page that's written in Turing-complete XSLT < 1222467425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use xhtml5 so that i can import fancy namespaces < 1222467426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like FOAF < 1222467428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DC < 1222467451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was aware that there was an XML version of HTML5 < 1222467457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think I've ever seen anyone use it before, though < 1222467471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intertwingly.net, iirc < 1222467473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, don't you need a ? < 1222467479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1222467482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's for the HTML serialisation < 1222467485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222467486 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doctype is only to force standards-compliant mode for text/html < 1222467491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML%+RDF??? < 1222467495 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas xml mime-types are treated as strict by all browsrs today < 1222467497 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*browsers < 1222467503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: XHTML5+RDFa, actually. < 1222467511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, except IE offers a download dialog iirc < 1222467515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IE6 < 1222467521 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people are starting to drop support for IE6 < 1222467523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... are there any XSLT interps in XSLT lying around, I wonder? < 1222467533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, does IE7 exist for XP? < 1222467536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1222467541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /me tries to guess who wrote the topic < 1222467543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess oklofok < 1222467547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, 2000? < 1222467554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. < 1222467561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1? < 1222467563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1222467565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1222467567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222467573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually seen some people who were still using Windows 2000 < 1222467595 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was oklofok < 1222467595 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222467608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway - XHTML1+RDFa is specified, and XHTML5 is specified, and there's not anything in XHTML5 that would change the way you apply +RDFa < 1222467609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I think I'm beating 50% at this now < 1222467610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just did that < 1222467616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad given how many people are here in the channel < 1222467620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially I wrote an XHTML1+RDFa document but with HTML5 tags < 1222467623 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, er, what it'd be < 1222467768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, any validator for it? < 1222467778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably a standard XML validator would work < 1222467788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://validator.nu/ will validate the XHTML5 part < 1222467792 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but give errors for the RDFa part, obviously < 1222467801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ might validate the rdf parts, not sure < 1222467807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is pretty trivial to validate, that's one of its goals in existance I think < 1222467832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ doesn't validate it because you don't use actual rdf elements directly < 1222467843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo becomes something like

foo

< 1222467852 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is reasonable - it's for xhtml documents decorated with rdf semanticity < 1222467861 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah humbug. Good old HTML 4.01 Transitional was good enough in 1999, and it's good enough now. < 1222467878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for what? < 1222467882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: i'm interested in ai, and the semantic web is an interesting step to things like that < 1222467891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus i've always been a fan of metadata < 1222467892 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1222467912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day I must get round to writing that program that extracts command-line options for ick from a file's last-modified date < 1222467954 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an interest in AI, but the more I read the more depressed I got about the limited accomplishments in that area. That's not to say that putting the intelligence into AI is impossible, of course, but I'm not sure I know how to do it. < 1222467971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh nice idea < 1222467986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I proposed it in a.l.i, they said I was mad < 1222467998 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: well, I'm also interested in sort-of-AI < 1222468000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when a.l.i say you're mad you know you're onto a good idea < 1222468006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hahaha < 1222468018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantic web is a huge web of relationships in a mesh of human-and-machine readable info & data < 1222468036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timbl supports it heavily, and i think it has quite some potential < 1222468043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not a fad, started in like 2000 and has been going slowly but steadily since < 1222468053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine having my humble little homepage be a tiny, tiny part of it < 1222468056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got copies of the thread? < 1222468066 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google groups yo < 1222468073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's still on Google Groups IIRC < 1222468101 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I think it does have some potential. The main problem with AI reasoning systems (apart from their poor handling of ambiguity and uncertainty sometimes) if their lack of a massive amount of basic knowledge that human beings take for granted. < 1222468101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/5a0696843eeeb5b6# < 1222468116 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: yes, i like to think about stuff like that but it's not why i like the semantic web < 1222468125 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is founded on more practical concerns, really < 1222468160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "Perl's method of doing this, in particular, is delightfully twisted, so INTERCAL has to come up with something weirder. " <-- hm? < 1222468166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and posting here to ask whether it's a good idea and whether I should do it, which in INTERCAL aren't necessarily correlated) < 1222468174 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing what? < 1222468179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try writing #!/bin/cat and running it as Perl some time < 1222468204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl ./tmp.pl < 1222468204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/cat < 1222468209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1222468233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Perl sees a #! line mentioning an application other than Perl, it execs that application rather than running normally < 1222468244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is strange, the OS should do that < 1222468248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus #!/bin/cat causes Perl to exec cat, thus outputting a copy of the source < 1222468256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, the OS does do that if the file's marked executable < 1222468257 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nastiest thing about Perl is its lack of support for proper named function arguments . You have to pop them off @_ don't you? < 1222468269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Perl does that if the file's run deliberately with Perl < 1222468281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: yes, but there's an idiom which pretty much makes it like K&R C < 1222468289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I dislike that too < 1222468295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because K&R C is totally awesome < 1222468296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222468299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think prototypes are a good thing(TM) < 1222468309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has prototypes < 1222468323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#perl (or is it ##perl?) tells people not to use them because their semantics are confusing < 1222468323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? why don't ppl use it then? < 1222468325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get what they do < 1222468338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: partly because they don't give you named arguments < 1222468343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they change the syntax of the language instead < 1222468345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok that is weird < 1222468380 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Perl let you return multiple values from a function? Like an inverse @_? < 1222468391 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can return an array *shrugs* < 1222468392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: yes < 1222468395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you return an array < 1222468411 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant without the packing. Something like Matlab's multiple return values. < 1222468430 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[A B] = SomeFunction(C,D,E) < 1222468444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub test {1;}; test / 4; # /; < 1222468452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub test ($) {1;}; test / 4; # /; < 1222468460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two legal Perl programs < 1222468463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one returns 1 < 1222468471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1222468476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's right < 1222468485 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second returns 1/4 < 1222468486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one returns 1, and the second returns 1/4 < 1222468490 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1222468507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the second one ends in a comment but the first one doesn't < 1222468521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is the point where people normally go wtf) < 1222468542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial < 1222468547 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, we've all seen perl line noise programs, it takes more than that to shock. < 1222468553 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ ... / is treated as a regexp argument in the first one < 1222468555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: this isn't about line noise < 1222468557 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222468557 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1222468559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong < 1222468561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program is pretty readable < 1222468563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second program needs 'sub test()" < 1222468565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sub test($) < 1222468568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1222468571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid thinko < 1222468577 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahah i fixed ais523's crazy perl's error < 1222468578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub test {1;}; test / 4; # /; < 1222468581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell < 1222468581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub test () {1;}; test / 4; # /; < 1222468589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [A B] = SomeFunction(C,D,E) <-- you mean a tuple? < 1222468600 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First place, Best 'The Perl Journal', 1 st Annual Obfuscated Perl Contest: Joe Futrelle. < 1222468602 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package S2z8N3;{ < 1222468603 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $zyp=S2z8N3;use Socket; < 1222468605 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (S2z8N3+w1HC$zyp)& < 1222468606 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : open SZzBN3,"<$0" < 1222468608 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;while(){/\s\((.*p\))&/ < 1222468609 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : &&(@S2zBN3=unpack$age,$1)}foreach < 1222468611 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $zyp(@S2zBN3) < 1222468612 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while($S2z8M3++!=$zyp- < 1222468614 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 30){$_=}/^(.)/|print $1 < 1222468616 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;$S2z8M3=0}s/.*//|print}sub w1HC{$age=c17 < 1222468617 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;socket(SZz8N3,PF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,getprotobyname('tcp'))&& < 1222468619 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connect(SZz8N3,sockaddr_in(023,"\022\x17\x\cv")) < 1222468620 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;S2zBN3|pack$age} < 1222468621 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: Oh, you flood too! < 1222468629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coooool. < 1222468632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, please use a pastebin for that long pastes in the future < 1222468634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the S2zBN3 < 1222468636 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that is totally not obfuscated. < 1222468638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's really significant < 1222468647 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because silly names make things reallllllllly complex... < 1222468654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most obfuscation is based on trivial stuff liek that < 1222468665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tusho: no, but it would cause utter chaos if someone messed around with the S2zBN3 typeglob, as all the variables in the program have the same name... < 1222468671 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1222468694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, typeglobs are sufficiently esoteric that i have trouble just thinking about htem < 1222468702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are typeglobs? < 1222468733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically a typeglob is a sort of metavariable that holds all the variables with a given name < 1222468758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um? < 1222468762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *S2zBN3 refers to a scalar, array, hash, filehandle, and typeglob, each of which is called S2zBN3 < 1222468776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you ignore them, but you can cause utter chaos by assinging to them < 1222468779 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. @S2zBN3, $S2zBN3) < 1222468785 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Matlab has special syntax for returning multiple arguments (the [] syntax). Apart from in this use, sticking multiple variables between square brackets will usually attempt to cat them to form a single matrix (which would fail unless their dimensions were compatible). < 1222468790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. IIRC if you do *foo = *bar, then $foo will actually mean $bar < 1222468795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean several variables can have same name, as long as their types are different? < 1222468800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1222468812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb, but isn't that really like tuples? < 1222468813 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-183.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222468815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually quite a lot of sigil-using languages do taht < 1222468825 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variable is called $foo, not foo < 1222468826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1222468828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sane way to think about it < 1222468858 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess so, except it's limited to returning arguments and not found elsewhere. < 1222468917 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222468997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, the sane way to think about it is "scalar called foo" < 1222469012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the array called foo can be referred to either as $foo or @foo depending on context < 1222469020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, shift @foo < 1222469025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but $_ = $foo[1] < 1222469032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both refer to the array foo < 1222469041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sigil doesn't depend on the type of the variable < 1222469048 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't it @foo[1]. Does that do something else? < 1222469050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the type of the expression you're extracting from the variable < 1222469054 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just a pointless alternation? < 1222469068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: yes, it gives you a 1-element array that's a slice of the array foo on its first element < 1222469076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an expression that starts with @ always returns an array < 1222469086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, apparently they're 'fixing' this weirdness for Perl6 < 1222469104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fix is more confusing < 1222469105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1222469112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it removes all the consistency < 1222469122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least it gives variables consistent names < 1222469131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but makes contexts even harder to figure out in one's head < 1222469192 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple of years ago I thought Perl 6 sounded fairly interesting.. a slightly saner version of Perl. < 1222469208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: "saner"? < 1222469210 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I've gotten tired of waiting for it and all my interest has drained away. < 1222469229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine C where every { } was in fact a lambda that took no arguments < 1222469240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and functions were first-class < 1222469276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That part sounds like Plof. < 1222469304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Perl6 regexen are powerful enough to write parsers with < 1222469313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which automatically deduce a lexer from the syntax of the language < 1222469315 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant saner in the syntax and presentation. It has proper named arguments to functions and other basic things which will make the code look a bit cleaner. < 1222469400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl6 is like GNU Hurd, we can go on and wait for as long as we like < 1222469404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't happen < 1222469413 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the {} thing doesn't sound that insane. Reducing a language to as few basic principles as possible can sometimes be helpful. < 1222469418 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that why people like Lisp? < 1222469435 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underneath all the complexity is a few basic principles and a lot of Lisp code. < 1222469437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i disagree, perl 6 has a kind of better schedule < 1222469444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it IS being worked on, slowly, but progress IS being mae < 1222469445 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*made < 1222469448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the hurd...is just dead < 1222469460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1222469464 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Hurd dead? Or are a few people still working on it? < 1222469469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah but hurd back around the time linux was first invented < 1222469470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe duke nukem forever will be released sometime in my lifetime... < 1222469478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perl 6 has been going for ages, though < 1222469481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and died for a bit < 1222469482 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its revived < 1222469483 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurd just died < 1222469486 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then never got back up again < 1222469488 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could never imagine the design being fast though. < 1222469488 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody cared < 1222469491 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night < 1222469510 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: A bright purple colour that is not pink is a hard thing. < 1222469512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night Mony < 1222469515 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1222469525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: make it a bluish magenta < 1222469528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as bright as possible < 1222469531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: example? < 1222469542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's think... #CC00FF < 1222469543 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Richard Stallman, with his insistence on calling it GNU/Linux or whatever. < 1222469560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrisdb: I've used Linux systems which had no GNU software on < 1222469564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night Mony < 1222469579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Such systems, of course, shouldn't be referred to as GNU/Linux. < 1222469604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how many people use Busybox/ucLibc systems, though. < 1222469613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was Busybox/uclibc/Linux < 1222469615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is pink :P < 1222469635 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222469637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean bright as in light < 1222469643 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in ... er, more white < 1222469657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that is so not pink < 1222469660 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turning up the saturation on #CC00FF totally gives you pink < 1222469674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: and yes, that's a maximally saturated colour in its colour group < 1222469680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has both a 00 and an FF in < 1222469681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1222469688 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the webpage of a guy who'd stripped down a Linux system so that all it did was load emacs after it booted once. < 1222469699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't saturate it more without making it a different colour < 1222469739 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i stand by what i said - a whiteish (you could put black text on it) purple is very hard < 1222469782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could, in a wider colour space < 1222469787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger* < 1222469789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: EE88FF? < 1222469796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but you'd need a better screen < 1222469801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222469816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I rather like what CC00FF does on an LCD screen < 1222469821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from below it's bright purple < 1222469831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking from slightly above it becomes a reddish purple < 1222469836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mine got very wide "viewing angle" < 1222469841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wouldn't notice that < 1222469844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then as I move up it becomes a bluish purple < 1222469848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a greyish orange < 1222469873 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look at my laptop's screen from any direction < 1222469873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lcd seems to have an infinite "viewing angle" < 1222469874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that isn't pink < 1222469876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old one didn't < 1222469880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I tested on a web-browser < 1222469882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looking at this one from any angle works fine < 1222469887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a Javascript: URL to fill the screen with colour < 1222469892 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr my so called "viewing angle" is infiniteous too < 1222469893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I couldn't remember how to do it with data: < 1222469897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go -> < 1222469901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this screen's viewing angle stuff is rubbish < 1222469911 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: data:text/html, < 1222469921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222469923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :body < 1222469923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not html < 1222469924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's the syntax < 1222469928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except html body bgcolor= < 1222469930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but looking at this one from any angle works fine <-- does it have blank screen? < 1222469933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. < 1222469938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1222469943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I couldn't remember how you specified the encoding < 1222469946 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's matte < 1222469946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looked like you didn't < 1222469949 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that has something to do with it < 1222469950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, those with blank seem to have a huge viewing angle < 1222469957 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just data:text/html;base64,... < 1222469958 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: define blank < 1222469959 0 :chrisdb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.2/2008091620]" < 1222469970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, "not matte" < 1222469973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: ah, ok < 1222469976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh < 1222469977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current monitor is matte < 1222469977 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is matte < 1222469980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my previous < 1222469982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none-matte lcd < 1222469984 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a tiny viewing range < 1222469990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, err blank is wrong English word I bet < 1222469991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, i'd say that mattes have larger range :| < 1222469993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1222469995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glossy < 1222469997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the right word < 1222469998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah that's it < 1222470005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I previously had a glossy LCD: tiny range < 1222470010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this matte one: infinite range, it seems < 1222470124 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it's not pink < 1222470129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not just a lighter version of a dark purple < 1222470155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: colour bands are skewed between computer perception and human perception < 1222470160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222470170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's possible some colours expressible in English don't even exist in RL < 1222470184 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unfortunate < 1222470187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i can picture it in my head < 1222470308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes all out to make his XHTML5+RDFa page look flashy as it doesn't really matter if it's form over function because it's just my little web identity card and it's only one entry page < 1222470324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I imagine the best way to do it would be to take a violet or indigo wavelength < 1222470334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just make it really really bright by shining a lot of photons at once < 1222470340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to create the RL colour < 1222470348 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1222470353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that would hurt your eyes and you couldn't get a computer to do that < 1222470359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222470369 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONCLUSION: Fuck computers. < 1222470390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: unfortunately Japanese sex robots aren't yet sufficiently advanced to make that feasible < 1222470398 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have sex with computers < 1222470402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1222470414 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ETA? < 1222470419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no idea < 1222470425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMPH < 1222470426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1222470430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll probably be all over the news when it happens < 1222470806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I love your "just-in-case compiler" in http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/9e9ad7d6875e9582# < 1222470845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's an interesting strategy, CLC-INTERCAL had a just-too-late compiler so I needed to think up a snazzy name for mine < 1222470877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "just-too-late" means? < 1222470904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL works by not compiling the program originally and just running it and getting an error. Then it compiles the bit of the code that caused the error and tries running again < 1222470911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until eventually the whole program is compiled < 1222470912 0 :atrapado!n=mnh@217.168.3.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222470920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like JIT compilation, just stupider < 1222470946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stupid yes indeed < 1222470966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't you say it compiled to some byte code that was then interpreted by perl? < 1222470968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, INTERCAL needs /some/ way around the fact that syntax errors are legal in a program < 1222470975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's CLC-INTERCAL < 1222470987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bytecode for the compiler is mixed in with the bytecode for the program as far as I can tell < 1222470991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the program compiles itself as it's run < 1222470994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1222470997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from inside the bytecode < 1222471001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ugh < 1222471014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1222471014 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that ugh < 1222471014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has to be done like that as the compiler can be dynamically modified from inside the program < 1222471015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fun < 1222471015 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's BRILLIANT < 1222471025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah I see < 1222471141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222471147 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an intercal interp possible < 1222471251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222471259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier than in intercal compiler, tbh < 1222471279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you can easily keep track of where statements begin and end, which is not trivial especially if it changes < 1222471288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would be easy except that READOUT contains the substring "DO") < 1222471294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPILER language with no pronouncable acronym < 1222471295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1222471318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think all known implementations of it are compilers < 1222471325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, once you finish gcc-bf what about gcc-intercal? < 1222471331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL is sort of, C-INTERCAL definitely is, and J-INTERCAL compiles into Java bytecode < 1222471337 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gee, that's only the 5th time you've asked him that < 1222471347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no time before < 1222471350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've been thinking about it, especially as I was horrified to realise that ABSTAIN is expressible to some extent in gcc < 1222471354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, that's the first time < 1222471362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you get so used to the questions you don't actually read them... < 1222471373 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure he's asked something similar, at least < 1222471384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can you do ABSTAIN in gcc? < 1222471397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has a feature called conditional execution < 1222471402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the backend, not frontend < 1222471411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wow < 1222471417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically tells gcc that the target CPU has an instruction that causes it to ignore instructions for a while < 1222471418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean like... if? < 1222471424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1222471431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not exactly < 1222471438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is a goto forwards based on some condition < 1222471445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas conditional execution blanks out commands < 1222471449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timing rules are completely different < 1222471451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well < 1222471455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222471455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, jump relative program counter? < 1222471455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1222471459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222471460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not exactly < 1222471476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance on the PIC16F84, a bit-test instruction temporarily causes the next instruction to be a NOP if it fails < 1222471483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, < 1222471484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222471489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timing characteristics of that are very different from those of jumping forwards two instructions < 1222471494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember that from PIC12F* < 1222471496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I coded for < 1222471503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2C3300 is a nice colour < 1222471505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who agrees < 1222471515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to imagine it first < 1222471520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll load it up and look < 1222471533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... a dark greenish-yellow? < 1222471540 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greenish-brown < 1222471542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark < 1222471543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, give me a dataurl < 1222471554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: data:text/html, < 1222471578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, one of the shades of military green I'd say < 1222471586 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, possibly < 1222471596 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like the kind of grimey sort of feeling < 1222471615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No definitions were found for grimey." < 1222471629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grimalicious>? < 1222471638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data:text/html, < 1222471638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, almost-snap < 1222471638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tusho: I like it when seen from above < 1222471638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222471647 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some impressive lag. < 1222471653 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222471653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222471660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes impressive lag < 1222471668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Did you mean: define:glamalicious < 1222471673 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahah < 1222471675 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glamalicious < 1222471676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best word ever < 1222471683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, best thing: < 1222471684 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is it like seen from above? < 1222471691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions were found for glamalicious. < 1222471693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222471695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my connection dropped < 1222471697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222471699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wtf was the original question, to get /that/ reply? < 1222471701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: dark green < 1222471703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from below it's a sort of dull reddish uck < 1222471710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, your screen is weird < 1222471711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "No definitions were found for grimey." < 1222471713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : grimalicious>? < 1222471715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1222471719 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222471725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do anyone care to tell what the word means? < 1222471728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1222471729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is meant to be uck < 1222471738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't uck from above < 1222471754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't a real word, ordinary Googling from it returns a few pages which are using it as a made-up word < 1222471764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222471778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and glamalicious? < 1222471786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glamalicious = glam < 1222471788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-alicious < 1222471790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's glamalicious I was talking about < 1222471800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant grimey < 1222471818 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-163-242-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222471845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, grimy is a real word < 1222471855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why grimey would be considered anything other than a misspelling of it < 1222471861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the pronounciation would be the same < 1222471893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are several words with different spelling, same pronunciation and different meanings < 1222471900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both Swedish and English I think < 1222471907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222471908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of one right now however < 1222471923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck < 1222471925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor and pour is one common one in English < 1222471927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and duck < 1222471929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's same spelling < 1222471934 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it isn't < 1222471937 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is duck and the other is duck! < 1222471943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, poor is not pronounced the same as pour < 1222471950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it is in Birmingham < 1222471962 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and that is because birmingham is the official home of satan. < 1222471968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everywhere else too I think < 1222471969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, what do you say to THAT < 1222471971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not it isn't < 1222471974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no it isn't < 1222471993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I counteract your bold and stupid assertion with a bold and uncited counter-assertion < 1222472000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D::: < 1222472014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you are left-handed, sad and have 6 eyes? < 1222472026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that doesn't make sense, my smiley-fu is fading < 1222472029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, i am < 1222472038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, birmingham is the official home of satan < 1222472051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no way will I believe that from a sad left-hander with 6 eyes < 1222472062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222472079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats ais523 with his gigantic (50meters) feeth for questioning him < 1222472088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeth? < 1222472093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222472095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries hard not to wonder what a footh is < 1222472096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feet teeth < 1222472111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't think about a pink elephant < 1222472123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually managed that for about 2 seconds < 1222472131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am managing it occasionally even now < 1222472142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem being that a pink elephant just isn't something I can easily bring to mind < 1222472143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives tusho some pink paint < 1222472156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed the same < 1222472156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, I'd better go home < 1222472159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya < 1222472160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't think about a train < 1222472161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost missed my bus... < 1222472162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222472163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and night < 1222472164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1222472165 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T THINK ABOUT A BUSS < 1222472167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUS < 1222472175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you know Swedish? < 1222472180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that hoax? < 1222472183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is buss in Swedish < 1222472224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1222472277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1222472281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ijust crashed safari < 1222472308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nice, send a bug report < 1222472312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1222472324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i will < 1222472333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i caused an infinite loop of hover&display/unhover¬ display < 1222472339 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some crazy css < 1222472353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, firefox handles it? < 1222472370 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think with firefox it'd cause an endless flicker of the element appearing/disappearing < 1222472376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222472408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, still possible to abort by moving the mouse elsewhere? < 1222472418 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes