< 1222041832 0 :Slereah2!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-30-147.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222042651 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222045207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1222045341 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, tusho. < 1222045344 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, tusho. < 1222046164 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1222046306 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222046806 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1222047036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1222049410 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1222053240 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222053977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222055289 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | *goran*? < 1222058273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222059360 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1222059360 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ELIZA not ELIZa < 1222059364 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1222059364 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it could be that your terminal shows unknown characters as ? < 1222065142 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1222069854 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222069924 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222070399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1222070400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071071 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071185 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222071214 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222071242 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071246 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1222071365 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071365 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222071396 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071397 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1222071418 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222071736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits cherez with a flyswatter.
< 1222071753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay, dammit. I know your Internet connection is stable... < 1222071759 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sentiment is not appreciated. < 1222071762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it's hooked right next to mine. < 1222072586 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222072633 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222074972 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: damn you, i've highlighted you about both mips and hydra, and you haven't responded, but you have time to play with optbot like 24/7 < 1222074972 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Ello. < 1222075276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? < 1222075297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where is "UNDEF: D says 1/0 is inf (NaN or +infinity)" defined to be one of those two values < 1222075900 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieee 754 should have an exception for where the result is simply not *perfect* < 1222075925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you could actually use it even if you're doing math < 1222075963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying there isn't one, my ieee 754 knowledge is limited to wikipedia, which didn't list the exceptions < 1222076074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IEEE 754 says it's +inf, and practically all floating point arithmetic uses approximately that < 1222076087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does FPDP say it uses IEEE 754 anywhere? < 1222076099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1222076116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, issue: Erlang throws an exception at inf or nan < 1222076121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very irritating < 1222076125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch it < 1222076132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure I will < 1222076136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reflect? < 1222076141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will mycology handle that? < 1222076146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why reflect? < 1222076168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since I can't know if it was inf or nan that IEEE 754 would have produced? < 1222076180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> 1/0.0. < 1222076181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception error: bad argument in an arithmetic expression < 1222076181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in operator '/'/2 < 1222076181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : called as 1 / 0.0 < 1222076210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a badarg exception < 1222076212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can't you do if y == 0 then push whatever else push x/y < 1222076237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure for division, but what about other stuff, you can get inf by multiplying enough < 1222076238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, push x/y `catch` if x == 0 push nan else push signbit(x) * inf < 1222076239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1222076239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1222076256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222076261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it throws an exception if you get floating point infinity by multiplication? O_o < 1222076275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it throws an exception if you get inf or nan < 1222076280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1222076377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you do 1e200 * 1e200 what do you get? < 1222076398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, syntax error. doesn't like that syntx < 1222076402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1222076434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah had to make those 1.0e < 1222076439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4> 1.0e200 * 1.0e200. < 1222076440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception error: bad argument in an arithmetic expression < 1222076440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in operator */2 < 1222076440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : called as 1.0e200 * 1.0e200 < 1222076455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1.0e100 * 1.0e100 works? < 1222076473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6> 1.0e100 * 1.0e100. < 1222076473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0e200 < 1222076493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1222076506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes very strange design choice < 1222076618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what would you do? < 1222076670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could resort to using a linked in driver (a module coded in C that is loaded into erlang) but that seems quite complex. < 1222076701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably catch the exceptions and figure it out < 1222076737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm and I'm unable to find a copy of the IEEE 754 specs (for free at least) < 1222076810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need the specs < 1222076818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of stuff there that you don't have to care about < 1222076843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, to know if I should treat it as nan +inf of -inf < 1222076858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they all generate the same exception < 1222076873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 is nan < 1222076876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others aren't < 1222076884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, n/0 too? < 1222076889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222076889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just 0/0? < 1222076889 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hello < 1222076891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222076900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia has this level of info < 1222076906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: E says asin(2) is nan (actually complex: NaN) <-- from cfunge output < 1222076912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1222076930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about division there < 1222076935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1222076938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cases like that are easy < 1222076941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the other operators < 1222076948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ can be either +inf or -inf < 1222076953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1222076960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nan :-P < 1222076975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't think of some good heuristics for finding out what inf < 1222076982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done told ya < 1222076988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1222076991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for division anyway < 1222076997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for division I can see < 1222077003 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf + n = inf! < 1222077029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x + y = -inf if that throws and y < x < 1222077036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222077038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 0 < 1222077041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222077056 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if x = -inf and y is like 100 < 1222077060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1222077063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x can't be -inf < 1222077070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would have thrown previously :-P < 1222077079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see i'm missing context yes. < 1222077094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1222077098 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's symmetric, how can there be a constraint on y but not x < 1222077109 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets not
< 1222077113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible that you get the bit pattern for -inf pushed on the stack via other means < 1222077121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah not in efunge no < 1222077136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be, why not < 1222077138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since they are type tagged tuples < 1222077139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222077157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens if I do 00A (if A was the floating point addition instruction, can't remember) < 1222077190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, undefined by FPDP < 1222077195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will reflect actually < 1222077221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you know about that C compiler for Lisp machines? NULL not 0x0 for example and so on < 1222077230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think efunge is something like that but for befunge :P < 1222077249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL == 0x0 in C < 1222077259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, implementation defined < 1222077263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the machine null pointer has value 0 or not is < 1222077272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 0x0 is used in pointer context however it is indeed true < 1222077280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the implementation should always convert it < 1222077288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like it is guaranteed that '1' == '0' + 1 < 1222077296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the charset might be different < 1222077302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on if you do int i = 0; char * = (char*)i; < 1222077302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no < 1222077320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might actually still work < 1222077326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222077329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *foo < 1222077330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but char* x = *(char**)&i; won't < 1222077361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and g/p will handle the tuples correctly. And any instructions like normal +-*/% will pop a dummy value instead < 1222077386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is undefined what they will do on floating point values in FPDP < 1222077388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's somewhat annoying < 1222077404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh well < 1222077412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? using normal + on two floating point numbers in befunge make no sense < 1222077426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you use unions to store them < 1222077455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, hmm < 1222077455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1222077458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that doesn't care if it is an int or not, use pop(), anything that needs an int use pop_int < 1222077462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means g and p will work < 1222077465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have to p a floating point before g works? < 1222077475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you do 000p 00g and get 0 as floating point < 1222077501 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1222077503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would be undefined. You would need to use the FPDP functions to create such a floating point number < 1222077534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, somewhat limiting but can't be helped I guess < 1222077545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked Mike about this in an email, and he said ok basically :P < 1222077557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:56:38 AnMaster: Deewiant, oh? using normal + on two floating point numbers in befunge make no sense <<< what, no polymorphism? < 1222077558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, waiting for email client to load < 1222077563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology might use 0 to push floating point 0 < 1222077574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you run into problems that might explain it < 1222077577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would reflect. And you invoke undefined behaviour < 1222077584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or then it might not, I don't know < 1222077600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh, haven't checked mail for two days < 1222077610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for about 500 mails to be downloaded
< 1222077623 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o you get a lot of mail < 1222077632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 70% is spam < 1222077637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are mostly mailing lists < 1222077642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a lot of spam then :-P < 1222077652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still get a lot of mail, even with only 30% :-P < 1222077653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually around 60% is spam < 1222077687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you expect from lists like -commits and such :P < 1222077703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: [Crossfire-cvs] SF.net SVN: crossfire:[9912] maps/trunk/quests < 1222077724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'd read such through gmane :-P < 1222077736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, are you a developer on those projects though? < 1222077753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I were I'd read through gmane < 1222077873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, something is starting in this classroom so I'm off -> < 1222077910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, only thing he said was: "However if you cannot use standard functions to duplicate these numbers on the stack or read/write these numbers in funge-space, you may need to augment (add another fingerprint maybe) the extension to provide this ability." < 1222077926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup/swap/put/get/store with s/fetch with ' all works < 1222077956 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to write like a ping pong in befunge < 1222077965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aware of all the fingerprints < 1222077975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, using the NCRS or TERM fingerprint you should be able to do it I guess < 1222077983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a list? < 1222078002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of fingerprints + short descriptions < 1222078010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM is basic terminal functions like moving cursor to another line and such, while NCRS is more or less full blown ncurses interface iirc < 1222078026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge has TERM but not NCRS so I don't know the NCRS details very well < 1222078031 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i was thinking like 3d < 1222078071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm, could be done I guess (rendering 3D image as ascii art or whatever) but it would be too slow to be usable < 1222078091 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking like not ascii art < 1222078101 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awful way to draw stuff < 1222078103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the 3DSP fingerprint to handle some vector operations on signle precision floating point vectors/matrices < 1222078112 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222078113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, then nothing remotely portable < 1222078124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC/Funge got some "windows handler" thing < 1222078127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc it is very basic < 1222078142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not usable for anything more than basic dialogs < 1222078191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you could render images using TURT I guess (turtle style like Logo)... < 1222078198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that have issues too < 1222078217 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isses? < 1222078219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cfunge and ccbi don't implement the "display in window" only the "save to file" variant < 1222078220 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*issues < 1222078227 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222078234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rcfunge that got render to window blocks until you close the window < 1222078247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need the user to close the window every time you drawn to it < 1222078265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, and it is still 2D so any 3D you would need to implement yourself < 1222078303 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have we never met before? i implement everything myself < 1222078387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well I can't think of a sane way to do it. Nor of an insane one < 1222078409 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane way to do the 3d calculations yourself? < 1222078409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about that old glfunge thing, it used opengl for something iirc, but don't remember what < 1222078419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, no, sane way to display it < 1222078423 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane way to draw textures and shit using turtles? < 1222078437 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was commenting the latter thing, that it's 2d. < 1222078438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well you could draw it using TURT, but displaying it... < 1222078472 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about displying it i have nothing to say, because it's you who has any idea about these fingreptinrts < 1222078477 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed a bit there < 1222078479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said the show to user command (that far from all implement) blocks until the window is closed in all interpreters I know < 1222078484 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is There A List? < 1222078495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, not any complete no < 1222078499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1222078502 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be done < 1222078505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can certainly find lists of what each interpreter implements < 1222078515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to maintain it < 1222078522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since new are added all the time < 1222078555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can find them, the question is will you find them for me :) < 1222078569 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i'll make my own "draw ip's to screen" fingerprint < 1222078579 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can create befunge code to move the ip's around < 1222078609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a part of the codespace would be visible at any point, and only ip's would be seen < 1222078625 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be simple with threads to make something outta that < 1222078682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fruit flies are everywhere :< < 1222078695 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should throw those kebab remains away... < 1222078707 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've sat there for like 2 weeks < 1222078755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, also the speed would be horrible. cfunge is the fastest interpreter out there. With -O3 -march=k8 -m64 it can manage something like 12000 instructions per second at best on my 2 GHz AMD64. Of course it depends on what funge instruction. I calculated that using a befunge 93 program that implements game of life < 1222078767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait more than 12 000 < 1222078775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got the 0s mixed up
< 1222078784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :120 000 iirc < 1222078794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was < 1222078809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that doesn't work out < 1222078820 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you optimize parts that aren't self-modifying? < 1222078828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, no I don't. < 1222078834 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is one of the best languages for compilations < 1222078837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compilation < 1222078843 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can always compile it better < 1222078845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could JIT it < 1222078850 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely < 1222078862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the issue is then you tie yourself to a specific instruction set < 1222078865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like x86 or ppc < 1222078886 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a pseudoassembly < 1222078891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use a pseudoassembly < 1222078893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, thinking of LLVM? < 1222078906 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because i don't know what that is < 1222078922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it's a program of some sort < 1222078924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Level_Virtual_Machine < 1222078946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking just making everything myself :-) < 1222078954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simpler < 1222078964 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a programmer, not an installer! < 1222078977 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i gotta be going < 1222078998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm is like something you can then compile to something real? < 1222079030 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's something i probably couldn't do, as real things are full of annoying details, especially x86 < 1222079076 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm leaving, you can answer my ponderings while i'm gone if you wish -> < 1222079293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : llvm is like something you can then compile to something real? <-- yes < 1222079298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a JIT for it iirc < 1222079371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm byte code is more or less platform independent. You can then either interpret it (it JITs it) or you can compile it into machine code and link it to a binary < 1222079410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm can also optimize the byte code. < 1222083482 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222083737 0 :Slereah2!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222083868 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222083872 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222084516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "UNDEF: N says -0 is 0.000000 (-0)" <-- hm??? < 1222084609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE distinguishes positive and negative zero < 1222084637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well nowhere does it say FPDP requires IEEE floating point actually < 1222084667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might be why it's UNDEF? < 1222084714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no it is undef because comparing floating point is tricky in befunge < 1222084727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because floating point equality is, with epsilons, too tricky, and without them, poorly defined, and because rounding with I is too inaccurate, results of calculations will be UNDEF. The precisely correct answer will follow, to 6 decimal places: the calculated result can be compared to it." < 1222084803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "precisely correct" here will mean IEEE, then; as said, it's "poorly defined". < 1222084841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well even in cfunge they don't match in the last decimal place. Nor in CCBI iirc < 1222084845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of them anyway < 1222084869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you don't need to resort to the IEEE explanation in this case: -0 is -0 in the mathematical sense, too. < 1222084963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to have sense to have a signed 0 < 1222085036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes 1/0 come out the right infinity < 1222085097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and 1/0 makes even less sense to me < 1222085099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some transcendental functions are discontinuous at 0 < 1222085103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222085151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very common in floating point representations, which tend to be of the sign-mantissa-exponent variety often, no matter how much sense it might fail to make make. < 1222085158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make-make. < 1222085215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_(dwarf_planet) < 1222085364 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-231.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222085484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_zero < 1222086646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in CCBI they all match down to the last decimal place, except in FPSP of course. :-) < 1222086682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders exactly how you define "poorly defined" again
< 1222086705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you use higher precision internally then? < 1222086706 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : "This sentence is not poorly defined" < 1222086711 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the best definition < 1222086725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be, could be < 1222086726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the only one that differs is the last one, 2^-4 or something, anyway < 1222087057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I can't make my FPDP IEEE conformat for non-finite maths since it will be a hell to handle if one of the operands already are inf or nan < 1222087059 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222087087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since FPDP doesn't say it have to be IEEE 754 conforming I can get away with that < 1222087092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222087223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222087237 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222087296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for example inf+(-inf) seems to be nan in my tests < 1222087304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1222087312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1222087324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also inf+-inf is NaN IIRC < 1222087327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else could it be? < 1222087342 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.68.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222087355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except in erlang any result of nan or inf is an exception, very irritating < 1222087365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make FPDP really painful < 1222087367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1222087371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HI < 1222087373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ugh < 1222087373 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222087373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi tusho < 1222087375 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222087385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 won by 4 seconds < 1222087386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222087389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1222087391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i didn't. < 1222087393 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222087394 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he didn't < 1222087398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, check logs < 1222087402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: inf-inf is nan, that's correct < 1222087416 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think you've forgotten: the logs go by our own clients < 1222087422 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does your client say? < 1222087425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did you send your hi < 1222087427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's an unworkable rule as we have different clocks < 1222087435 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that unworkable < 1222087437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let me open up the log to get the seconds, this thing only shows the minutes by default < 1222087438 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as our clocks are not that different < 1222087448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's a better solution than the tunes.org logs < 1222087454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that removes the reflex time altogether < 1222087455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mån sep 22 11:44:14 UTC 2008 < 1222087457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check that it match < 1222087462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my clock is set using ntp < 1222087466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so is mine. < 1222087468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can calculate difference against it < 1222087480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mån sep 22 11:44:14 UTC 2008 incompatible encoding < 1222087484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah colloquy logs as xml :|) < 1222087502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it should be 0 IMO ;P. Anyway I don't plan to make my FPDP IEEE 754, it is undef. and mycology does try to depend on 0 being a fpdp 0 too < 1222087503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I am 1hr,2sec ahead of anmaster < 1222087514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that was utc timestamp < 1222087518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222087520 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222087521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 2 secs are probably irc lag < 1222087521 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1222087525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1222087527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my clock is correct < 1222087527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1222087531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume ais523's is too < 1222087535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222087556 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: HI < 1222087562 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1222087563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:42:36 < 1222087565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and you? < 1222087572 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1222087574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I pasted it in-channel < 1222087576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1222087577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mån sep 22 11:46:16 UTC 2008 < 1222087582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it not come through? < 1222087582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you did not ais523 < 1222087584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid connection problems) < 1222087585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222087589 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ais523 < 1222087593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my clock is = AnMaster's < 1222087598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1222087603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 2 seconds, which could be irc lag < 1222087611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely < 1222087631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is sync'd to time.euro.apple.com < 1222087632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:47] hi tusho < 1222087634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x does it by default < 1222087636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:51] ais523: HI < 1222087640 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: HI < 1222087648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:52] also, ugh < 1222087652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:53] er < 1222087653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not important < 1222087655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your send time is < 1222087655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop that < 1222087656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:53] and hi tusho < 1222087660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:42:55] hi ais523 < 1222087661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, se.pool.ntp.org < 1222087664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mon Sep 22 2008] [12:43:05] ais523 won by 4 seconds < 1222087665 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: STOP FLOODING < 1222087683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, point is, I beat you by 11 seconds < 1222087684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I only pasted 7 lines, and my round-trip ping time is 33 seconds so your "stop that" came far too late < 1222087687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take a second or so < 1222087692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, because our clocks are obviously different < 1222087698 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fine < 1222087699 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222087700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1222087702 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do your thing again < 1222087712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/exec -o date -u < 1222087723 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try again < 1222087724 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222087724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mån sep 22 11:48:43 UTC 2008 < 1222087727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste his line from the logs < 1222087731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: our clocks are within 1s of each other < 1222087731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I did that with intention < 1222087744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I don't want to freeze up the computer again to open the logs, my #esoteric logs are massive < 1222087744 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably irc lag < 1222087744 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222087750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222087752 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's clocks < 1222087754 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are within 1s < 1222087757 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, point is, i beat you < 1222087761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222087762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: mine and yours, I was CTCP TIMEing you < 1222087763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentionally* < 1222087766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1222087770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also since you use a script it doesn't count < 1222087773 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1222087774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when I join < 1222087782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just when he does < 1222087794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you are such a bad looser you can't even admit you loose < 1222087796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222087797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1222087799 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won < 1222087803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just checked it and i won < 1222087810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and...that makes me a sore loser? < 1222087816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and no, I don't want to freeze up the computer again to open the logs, my #esoteric logs are massive < 1222087819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try log rotation < 1222087827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rotate each month < 1222087846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never plan to delete any of the logs in question, and they're easier to grep if they're all one file < 1222087856 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just tail the log < 1222087858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get his message < 1222087859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or grep < 1222087868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep 'mÃ¥n sep 22 11:48:43 UTC 2008' esoteric.log < 1222087872 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1222087874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I could do that easily enough but that would involve going through the filesystem to find the log < 1222087876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you CTCP TME'd < 1222087877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1222087881 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TIME < 1222087882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used Konversation's open-log command < 1222087890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes a while on a large log < 1222087894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is tailed, but to 1MB < 1222087899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which still takes a while to open < 1222087903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1222087906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1222087945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, a new crop of isitchristmas.com sites < 1222087971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isitbirthday.com/ -> http://isitafuckingirritatingbrowser.com/ -> http://www.isbushgone.com/ < 1222087997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how long is this "while"? < 1222088006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the amount of lag in the IRC network and that one's own messages aren't really in a fair fight, I don't see any other way of resolving "who was first" disputes than a trusted third party, like the tunes.org logs. < 1222088010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe about 10 seconds < 1222088018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Konversation spends a while rendering everything in the log though < 1222088021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: er... < 1222088022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like URLs and so on < 1222088023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is < 1222088025 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaction time < 1222088026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how long does it take to load KDE? < 1222088031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast we can type and get it entered < 1222088043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, we compare when we sent at -this- end < 1222088045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since < 1222088045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -bsh /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdecore.so.4.2.0 < 1222088046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5M /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdecore.so.4.2.0 < 1222088054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably about 90 seconds while the rest of the computer's loading, as I use Gnome by default, it's much faster if loading KDE's the only thing I'm doing < 1222088056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-b? < 1222088057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that indicates that just one library is larger than that 1 MB tail < 1222088070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok you got a slow computer < 1222088082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's rendering that's the problem, not physically loading the file < 1222088088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, du --help < 1222088093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *have < 1222088106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that I hit enter startx to KDE is fully loaded: maybe 15 seconds or so < 1222088108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ths computer < 1222088120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3.5.x < 1222088121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does your computer run KDE by default? < 1222088140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't start X by default. but it is the default when I enter startx < 1222088142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what, the actual size as opposed to the disk usage? < 1222088152 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 seconds? lol < 1222088155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes that is the effect of it < 1222088158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I normally use ls -l to determine the size of a file < 1222088164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, sure but the computer is a few years old < 1222088166 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this imac takes 40-60 seconds to boot up from power button to the gui :P < 1222088170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's due to the use of EFI and such < 1222088175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the BIOS < 1222088183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then you get it in bytes and reading 13857624 isn't easy enough < 1222088188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah well I can beat that, from grub to login prompt it takes 10 seconds < 1222088189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: -H < 1222088194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1222088198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe -S < 1222088199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not fair. < 1222088201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an option for that anyway < 1222088206 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i am talking about from bootup to full gui syste < 1222088206 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m < 1222088207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I always want du --si which I think only du supports :-) < 1222088210 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40-60 seconds < 1222088214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well bios to grub takes about 14 seconds < 1222088214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222088221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 + 10 + 15 < 1222088230 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wanna measure that? < 1222088231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls -l --si squeak.image < 1222088231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 17M 2008-08-10 21:18 squeak.image < 1222088232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that includes bios < 1222088234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 seconds < 1222088236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn x on by default, use a stopwatch < 1222088240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I don't reboot a lot < 1222088241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1222088244 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you can't get to a login prompt in 35 seconds. < 1222088250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I don't use kdm < 1222088254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bootup is really slow due to all the crap I have installed < 1222088257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have xdm or kdm installed tusho < 1222088259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so impossible < 1222088259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iBook seems to take a long long long long long time to boot to OS X login screen, but usually I just wake it up from sleep. < 1222088266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :login then startx is the only way on this system < 1222088269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then don't try and give your own measurements, because it's not a fair comparison < 1222088277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, how so? < 1222088294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i am talking about an automated process from the initial electrical turnon to a login screen, how long that takes < 1222088297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, loading full KDE would take longer than loading xdm < 1222088300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mac is the fastest i've ever seen < 1222088308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going for unfair comparisons, sudo su takes me about 5 seconds on here, which is the time it takes me to type my sudo password < 1222088309 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has tons of daemons and apps running at startup < 1222088327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah??? well my 'true' runs in -3ms! < 1222088332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tusho, not everyone /has/ an automated process from initial turnon to login screen < 1222088336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well I measured time to grub (14.2 seconds) and grub to console login prompt (10.1 seconds) about 2 weeks ago < 1222088340 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course. < 1222088345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't give their times :P < 1222088349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an irrelevant comparison < 1222088354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so adding those you get 24.3 seconds < 1222088363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can add time for startx < 1222088370 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OS X starts the full system (like KDE) before login prompt < 1222088387 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess for a fair comparison with a linux system you'd have to make an automatic login for the test < 1222088391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it doesn't load a lot of stuff before login < 1222088407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether Gnome or KDE is faster
< 1222088409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like battery menu when I tested < 1222088413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess KDE, based on my experiences with both < 1222088421 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde is faster, ironically < 1222088439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so in fact linux is at disadvantage here < 1222088448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how? < 1222088451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my measurement will include load time to full desktop < 1222088458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not only login prompt < 1222088462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot less code to load < 1222088479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, make 'startx' your login shell or something then < 1222088479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222088490 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be fair < 1222088501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, why isn't measuring each section and adding them up fair? < 1222088506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see that < 1222088527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because of the time taken to transition from each section < 1222088550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that is user type type time yes to enter password and such, but I don't see how that is relevant? < 1222088572 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what i meant. < 1222088598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, then what *do* you mean? < 1222088630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i said < 1222088637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makes no sense < 1222088694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you refuse to explain it, *shrug* < 1222088788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A _true_ scotsman wouldn't need an explanation < 1222088804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and as ais523 said: < 1222088805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and tusho, not everyone /has/ an automated process from initial turnon to login screen < 1222088810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222088815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then they are irrelevant to the comparison. < 1222088825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and you can give relevant times by adding up all the automated sections < 1222088852 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not valid when every second makes a difference < 1222088904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well then we can't know if your measurement is that exact either < 1222088911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the whole thing is pointless anyway < 1222088919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is. < 1222088922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i measured it. < 1222088933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well a human isn't that exact < 1222088980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am good at counting seconds manually, besides, i'll redo it with a stopwatch later < 1222088998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What _was_ your measurement, then? I only saw that "40-60 seconds" figure. < 1222089005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well I used a stopwatch, but even so it may be a second or so off < 1222089014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because humans aren't that exact < 1222089019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pressing buttons either < 1222089023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i forget, it was a while ago < 1222089033 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, but 1s doesn't make all that much difference < 1222089037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5s does < 1222089100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my timings: 14.2 seconds from power button to grub prompt, 10.1 seconds from selection in grub to login prompt on console, 15.3 seconds from startx to "loading KDE dialog" closed < 1222089174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grub doesn't use a timeout at all so that is irrelevant, + the all boot entries are password protected (oh yes bios is password protected too), not a lot of security, but something is better than nothing < 1222089188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know bios pass is easy to crack < 1222089194 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone has my hardware they're fucked, i figure < 1222089211 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to stick a floppy linux distro in and read from the disk < 1222089222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, depends on the boot order you set < 1222089234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but as you said - bios password is easy to crack < 1222089235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've seen a bios password cracked, the person did it by shorting out a capacitor on the motherboard temporarily < 1222089244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the BIOS forgot what the password was < 1222089245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed, but it require some knowledge < 1222089260 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: true, true < 1222089268 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really care though, my priority is not letting it get stolen < 1222089274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or letting anyone near it who i don't want to be < 1222089284 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i have autologin on and all that stuff because of the aforementioned reasons < 1222089306 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i am hideously environmentally unfriendly because i just boot this from standby after the night < 1222089312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh and timings on my laptop would be impossible you would say since I need to enter password for harddisk encryption at boot there < 1222089315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than actually leaving it on, i guess < 1222089393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222089477 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222089515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I special case {0, 0} to work around the "using 0 as FPDP 0" bug in mycology now. But I hope you fix it < 1222089590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what floating point number does all-bits-zero correspond to? < 1222089616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he hopes it means 0 < 1222089626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was wondering what it actually meant < 1222089631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it corresponds to 0 in IEEE-754 < 1222089631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except in efunge floats from FPDP are tagged tuples < 1222089635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that fails < 1222089641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i think you are correct < 1222089646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I am correct < 1222089648 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE-754 is a good standard to adhere to < 1222089650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like POSIX! < 1222089664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, certainly, but it is undefined in FPDP < 1222089669 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you ask me FPDP should mean IEEE-754 < 1222089673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so well you can't expect anything sensible < 1222089676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a mike riley fingerprint < 1222089681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised it HAS a specification < 1222089699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe, but consider efunge a Dethstation 9000 if you want < 1222089712 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I'm doubting Deewiant cares about dethstation 9000s :D < 1222089714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deathfunge e^i*pi. < 1222089715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that makes you happier < 1222089721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you've never seen a true Deathstation 9000, efunge is more like a Deathstation 2 by comparison < 1222089727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about deathstation 9000s < 1222089728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably < 1222089733 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222089742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a similar system (i.e. not literally one) - my programs won't work < 1222089744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1222089756 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume a modern system - unix-like or not - for my sanity < 1222089769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what about gcc-bf? < 1222089779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've expended a lot of effort on trying to make it not a Deathstation < 1222089787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure to what extent it's succeeded < 1222089788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it's not too much work < 1222089791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is amusing < 1222089797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is not < 1222089797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deathstation 9000 funge interpreter would easily break mycology since it tries to test UNDEF stuff to see what they do < 1222089800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I even made int 32-bits, because everyone seems to assume it is nowadays) < 1222089816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hmm... some of it's undefined, some's just unspecified < 1222089841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, for instance, you can imply from the spec that # across the right edge either hits or jumps over the left edge of the program, for instance, nothing else < 1222089894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1222089969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok not that bad. but I plan to make efunge do unusual but kind of sane stuff < 1222089990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I did contact Mike Riley about it < 1222090003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the IEEE bit, but the type tagged tuples bit < 1222090026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's just an implementation detail < 1222090040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he specifically say that it's ok for "00A" to reflect, for instance < 1222090057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/9NkK4p98.html < 1222090074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 00A does reflect, you need to load a fingerprint first if you want it to do something < 1222090083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1222090133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I can special case 00 in the pop double code, but I can hardly do it in all cases < 1222090148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so he's saying "my spec sucks, do what you want" < 1222090156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't he just write stuff properly :-P < 1222090158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the format is {double, }{double, dummy} < 1222090170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then I wouldn't have been able to implement it < 1222090183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been fine as long as it has well-defined behaviour :-P < 1222090188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you p a FPDP tuple onto the playfield, g it back, and have it still work? < 1222090193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1222090193 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :related: http://tusho.net/mkry/ < 1222090195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in efunge? < 1222090196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if ais523's seen that < 1222090196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that works < 1222090199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant and AnMaster have though < 1222090200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes I have < 1222090221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you p a FPDP tuple onto the playfield, then run into it with the IP and have an appropriate command happen? < 1222090223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same for swap/dup on stack and such < 1222090225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about $ in FPDP, will it pop one FPDP value or two < 1222090232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222090240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you need one or two to pop one value* < 1222090241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no because the internal representation is undefined in the spec < 1222090255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it will pop one cell < 1222090259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store it in two cells < 1222090267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that one cell is a dummy cell < 1222090268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly speaking even that is UNDEF < 1222090279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well ccbi will pop one cell too < 1222090280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could reason on the basis that if you have 2^64 different floating point numbers and p them all onto the playfield, all possible commands have to end up there somewhere < 1222090281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which again makes the FPDP spec as it currently is rather useless < 1222090292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could search the playfield to find the one that was y, for instance < 1222090293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why do you need to know the internal format of the numbers? < 1222090295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run into it with the IP < 1222090300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface functions are there for a reason < 1222090307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be ridiculous, but I don't seen any reason why it doesn't work in theory < 1222090313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now I'm just thinking about how to pop a single value, which is evidently impossible without invoking undef behaviour < 1222090340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it says two cells, so $$ will do it obviously < 1222090348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no it doesn't say that anywhere < 1222090349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since $ operates on cells on the stack < 1222090360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be one cell or 64 cells < 1222090363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it *used* to say it < 1222090383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can use "I$", I think. < 1222090400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, true. < 1222090405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it used to say it back at the webarchive days < 1222090406 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-236-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222090412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm 99.99% sure about that < 1222090433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or did it say it or something like "A (ah al bh bl -- ch cl)" which makes little sense on its own :-P < 1222090451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well iirc it said two cells < 1222090467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it having two-word things in the title at some point, like that example above < 1222090470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway efunge won't have FPSP since erlang only got it's "semi-IEEE" floating point < 1222090482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang will throw and exception on inf or nan < 1222090484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the main issue < 1222090500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any inf or nan < 1222090512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even quiet NaN? < 1222090515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that violates the specs < 1222090526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't claim to be conforming < 1222090530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are two sorts of NaNs, quiet and signaling, only the signaling one throws an exception < 1222090532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not sure how it violates < 1222090533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ok < 1222090542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it throws an exception on 1.0e200 + 1.0e200 < 1222090546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, NaNs can carry a payload too) < 1222090575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that and 1.0/0.0 also throws an exception (and no it is not integer division, that would be the "div" operator") < 1222090577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, special NaNs would be the main reason why being able to mess with the bit representation directly would be handy < 1222090578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1222090619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1./0. being signaling NaN would strike me as a reasonable implementation choice < 1222090627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so that's a similar behaviour for the wrong reason < 1222090680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any nan or inf. And well it doesn't claim to fully conform to IEEE 754 < 1222090695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I understand < 1222090710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what floatlib.i does in such cases
< 1222090716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't conforming fully to IEEE754 either < 1222090728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author said that the only reason it resembles IEEE754 was that it was convenient < 1222090828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well erlang does use floating point of the system, it just checks after each operation for any of those conditions < 1222090842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it seems to turn -0 into 0 at least in output < 1222090869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it exception on underflow? < 1222090876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the result of 1.0e-200 / 1.0e200? < 1222090878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> (0.0 * -1) =:= 0.0. < 1222090878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1222090890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> 1.0e-200 / 1.0e200. < 1222090890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0 < 1222090909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's trying to do floating point like maths, I think < 1222090915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a bad idea in programming < 1222090943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: works well for haskell < 1222090953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well efunge is bignum. Mycology handles that, but that other test suite (Fungus) locks up on it < 1222090955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but erlang was designed by programmers < 1222090957 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mathematicians < 1222090963 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell was designed by mathematicians < 1222090969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so erlang doing floating point like maths is probably bad < 1222091063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so the floating point in Haskell is not fully IEEE 754? < 1222091079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It has different types. < 1222091087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1222091088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, going to make some food < 1222091089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For IEEE 754 and mathematical. < 1222091297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not without some extra libraries i think < 1222091301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222091303 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal < 1222091312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1222091328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be < 1222091347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway Double in ghc is IEEE < 1222091441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal is for the ffi, i guess < 1222091494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not necessarily different in practice < 1222091669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they are in lambdabot < 1222091832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait, maybe CReal really is unbounded, that was a lot of digits for pi < 1222092243 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222092244 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222092293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it was discussed on #haskell just two days ago. clearly i've been away too long... < 1222092742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i was confusing it with CDouble and CFloat < 1222094064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal is in an external library < 1222094095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Ratio for precise fractions < 1222094113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's Double and Float which are mostly IEEE 754 < 1222094232 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222094245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to put efunge's FPDP aside for now until he figures out a cleaner way to code some stuff in it.
< 1222094950 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222095979 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222095988 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222096755 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-24-48.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222097069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what should FIXP B (acos) do on non-valid input? < 1222097073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reflect it seems < 1222097105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, I guess you can reflect < 1222097150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does CCBI do? < 1222097165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just casts the NaN that comes out to an integer < 1222097185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what (int)nan() is anyway
< 1222097191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0 < 1222097198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1222097212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well mycology doesn't like that you reflect on nan from B in FIXP < 1222097243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does mycology test invalid B? < 1222097262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently < 1222097266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: T says tan(35) is 0.7002 < 1222097267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: aaaa***B reflects < 1222097267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: B says acos(0) isn't 90 < 1222097267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: 01-B reflects < 1222097274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1222097287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't test invalid B < 1222097293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I made it push 0 on NaN: < 1222097294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: B says acos(1) is 0 < 1222097294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: B says acos(0) isn't 90 < 1222097294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: B says acos(-1) isn't 180 < 1222097294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: 3aaa***J reflects < 1222097298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of that is invalid, or? < 1222097298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me < 1222097306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the messages totally different? < 1222097311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unrelated to the BAD ones? < 1222097324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having matching GOOD/BAD confuses < 1222097325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa***B is acos(1) < 1222097346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222097363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the reflections, it evidently gives the exact code < 1222097416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa*** that is 10000 < 1222097417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222097426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it is in degrees < 1222097428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eait < 1222097430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222097430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222097443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1222097488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acos :: [-1,1] -> [0,360) for FIXP :-P < 1222097508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses didn't match up they way they should < 1222097571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes AnMaster is not referring to the [0,360)
< 1222097628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, to my code < 1222097642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it multiplied too early < 1222097661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1222097673 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222097826 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222097844 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-24-48.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222097922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :degrees are ugly < 1222097996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angles expressed on a scale from zero to random in base random with randomly created characters in a sentence written in a natlang, could this get any worse < 1222098008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it could < 1222098038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The angle is 49823y4pcnq283yn4p9cq283y5p9q235. < 1222098070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, random base that happens to be the convention :) < 1222098180 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't actually just hate physical objects artificially created for a specific purpose, like i said earlier, i also hate backwards-compatibility, and all kinds of conventions < 1222098205 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, conventions that aren't perfect, but are used because of backwards-compatibility < 1222098212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't hate *all* conventions < 1222098268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm out of stuff to read :< < 1222098273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean stuff i have to read < 1222098289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fun < 1222098354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to read Ulysses. now! < 1222098369 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make me! sadly. < 1222098410 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i only like reading computer/math related books < 1222098413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tragic, isn't it. < 1222098433 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sounds like tragedy, yes, not sure what book that is < 1222098442 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222098452 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1222098470 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it wasn't a shakespearean masterpiece of great tragedy < 1222098490 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | yes 00 false < 1222098574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | MistyRoses are Red, Violets are Blue < 1222098726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1222098745 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1222098843 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I missed < 1222098845 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok < 1222098847 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, as for [) I do know what it means, though I don't know the English name for it < 1222098849 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (). < 1222098884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get that last one. many have spoken since. < 1222098901 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1222098911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-open interval < 1222098965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should that be semi- < 1222099011 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demi-open < 1222099025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say semi-, I think < 1222099075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia says half- < 1222099146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics) < 1222099164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just received an email saying that the doors won't work again for a couple of weeks...
< 1222099194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why? < 1222099201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just crazy < 1222099208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrading the computer system that validates our swipe cards < 1222099210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where will you chat on irc from? < 1222099225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can that take more than a few days!? < 1222099234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :various other places, there are a few open-access labs I can go in sometimes < 1222099236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not weekends though < 1222099248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wifi tends to carry, sometimes that helps when it isn't raining < 1222099384 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1222099480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222099482 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1222099558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sucks < 1222099594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1222099599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my connection atm < 1222099623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still ais523 how can that take more than a few days!? < 1222099629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that went through or not < 1222099630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. i think pikhq took the flyswatter, i'm afraid. < 1222099645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't ask me < 1222099651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have a clue either < 1222099659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask? < 1222099676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some huge bureaucratic thing < 1222099680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably involves more than one department < 1222099690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's September so there are new students < 1222099693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still ask, asking doesn't hurt < 1222099704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my card seems to be mysteriously working anyway < 1222099710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with any luck it won't affect me... < 1222099715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm at what level are you studying currently? < 1222099755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a fourth-year student, MEng Electronic and Computer Engineering < 1222099819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEng? < 1222099825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Master of Engineering < 1222099831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222099832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a qualification that generally requires 4 years to get < 1222099843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1222099854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universities vary about whether it's a 1-year upgrade from Bachelor of Engineering, or if it's awarded all in one go < 1222099862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my course is an all-in-one-go one < 1222099871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222100165 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222100248 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222100545 0 :Slereah2!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222103165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222103724 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1222103936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222103938 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1222103944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is up with my connection today < 1222103948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it is rock solid < 1222103977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how goes gcc-bf btw? < 1222103985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still doing other things < 1222103994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone else wants to finish the tricky parts I'd be grateful < 1222103994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222104006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wouldn't manage it :P < 1222104010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to figure out exactly what the build system is before even being able to upload it in a form that others can use < 1222104033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? how do you currently build it then? < 1222104042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whole load of shell scripts < 1222104046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thar call each other < 1222104056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I assume it is against last gcc? gcc 4.3.x < 1222104057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rely on me having set up everything by hand first < 1222104060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222104068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's against the version of the source in the Ubuntu repos < 1222104077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no clue what one that is < 1222104084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2.3 < 1222104092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222104123 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that under gpl3? < 1222104127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222104131 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah. < 1222104208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the resulting programs are GPL3, though < 1222104216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just a mix of LGPL and 28 different BSD-style licences < 1222104222 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was considering contributing to gpl3 < 1222104224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1222104226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to gcc-bf < 1222104242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part of it I haven't done isn't gpl3 < 1222104245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently "unspecified" < 1222104256 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, once it'sdone < 1222104257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll decide on a licence for it later < 1222104273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gpl3 code is gcc, and the code that goes into it < 1222104276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though allow me to suggest BSD or MIT or the Eiffel Public License < 1222104283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib has a crazy permissive licence < 1222104291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bf-ld can be anything really as I wrote it all myself < 1222104303 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eiffel Public License is pretty esoteric < 1222104305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does libbf, but that will almost certainly be BSD < 1222104310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like BSD or MIT, but shorter < 1222104503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the code that won't be gpl3? < 1222104507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library stuff? < 1222104510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222104521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't you say you would use newlib? < 1222104524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff that's linked into the resulting program < 1222104530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I do < 1222104540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's libbf as well which fills in gaps in newlib < 1222104544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I/O and filesystem < 1222104550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which the OS normally takes care of < 1222104552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222104563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's the assembler/linker, which is an important part of it < 1222104570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing that by hand in Perl and haven't chosen a license yet < 1222104580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl, huh? < 1222104581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why perl < 1222104586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexen < 1222104632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, things like hash-tables built into the language are nice for doing linking < 1222104655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn the connection is failing again < 1222104656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222104657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222104673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seem to still be connected < 1222104673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge lag < 1222104686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but how will you be able to call that from inside the bf program? < 1222104693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1222104695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the linker < 1222104702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *blink* < 1222104703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking you don't call the linker from inside the resulting executable < 1222104713 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster thinks you are writing gcc in bf, ais523 < 1222104720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or he doesn't know what a linker is. < 1222104729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know what a linker is < 1222104744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing shared libraries if that's what you're wondering about < 1222104778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm writing the code such that I could make it a bytecode compiler with a brainfuck-based VM, rather than compiling directly into brainfuck, if I wanted to < 1222104798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second version would make it possible to compile files into executables then run the executables from inside the brainfuck program < 1222104803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be nice < 1222104924 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1222104976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm getting quite good at standing on one leg and balancing a laptop on my knee, whilst swiping for a door with the other hand < 1222104986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222104988 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1222105020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/Gjgh1u98.html < 1222105022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and first thing tomorrow I'm going to call the ISP and complain (they have closed the call center for the day) < 1222105057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf :P < 1222105057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it works is that I compile everything into asm, both the program and the standard libraries < 1222105080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then statically link the program and the required parts of the stdlib together < 1222105087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then assemble the result into a single brainfuck program < 1222105092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the filesystem isn't executable < 1222105124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm and it isn't the real file system? < 1222105132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a fake filesystem < 1222105142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code for it is surprisingly readable as it has pretty much nothing to do with brainfuck < 1222105150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works using malloc < 1222105155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allocate space for the files < 1222105158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it possible to bundle data files on it? < 1222105170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programs need to read data or settings files and such < 1222105176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not atm, but I hope it will be eventuall < 1222105179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/y/ < 1222105182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1222105190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no technical reason why not, just haven't written that part yet < 1222105196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm how does that code work, if it is C I would like to read it < 1222105205 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I'm getting quite good at standing on one leg and balancing a laptop on my knee, whilst swiping for a door with the other hand <<< elaborate < 1222105219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I often carry a laptop out of this room to get something to eat < 1222105224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is then getting back into the room again < 1222105232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the door is weighted, and needs to be pulled open < 1222105241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will only open within a few seconds of swiping a card < 1222105254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not strong enough to hold my laptop in one hand safely < 1222105280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? need to body build ;) or get a macbook air ;P < 1222105292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just watch out so you don't cut yourself ;) < 1222105327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: my solution is to balance the card on my laptop, walk to the door, then stand on one leg, balance the laptop on the other leg with my left hand for support, swipe the card with my right hand, drop the card on the laptop, open the door with my right hand, then as it swings shut hold the laptop with both hands, put my left leg on the ground and hook the door with my right leg < 1222105336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically this is the simplest method I've found < 1222105371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could fold the laptop, carry it under one arm < 1222105379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the folded state < 1222105397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might disconnect you for a moment though ;P < 1222105415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I like to do it seamlessly so you lot don't realise what's happened unless I tell you < 1222105421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222105422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it makes an interesting topic of conversation < 1222105441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1222105473 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does your laptop weigh / how weak are you? < 1222105507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's actually pretty heavy < 1222105538 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 2 kg < 1222105541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222105554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://code.eso-std.org/gcc-bf/libbf/libbf.c < 1222105555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: probably < 1222105575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that + newlib = standard library for gcc-bf < 1222105607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it's untested and probably buggy < 1222105666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you should allow optionally making using of PSOX! *ducks* < 1222105688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually the code's designed so that's a possibility, not planning to work on it atm though < 1222105713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's the #if PASS == 0 and such stuff for? < 1222105723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate lots of separate .o files from one .c < 1222105730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the linker only links the ones you need < 1222105735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than all of them < 1222105741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty esoteric, but why not use separate C files? < 1222105746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to emulate the usual semantics of UNIX linkers < 1222105769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just didn't think of using separate C files, also some of the functions reference each other so having them in the same file is neater < 1222105782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides many of the functions are so short that separating them would be overkill < 1222105792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's some boilerplate like the headers that's the same for all of them < 1222105796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I believe glibc have more or less one function per file < 1222105803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly some static functions as wlel < 1222105804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well* < 1222105812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe glibc functions tend to be long < 1222105816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1222105820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but libgcc has everything in four or five files < 1222105830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, large files? < 1222105836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222105848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: my build process compiles each function in libgcc three times < 1222105862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different word sizes < 1222105889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way if I'm missing a function, I get not just the 8- and 16-bit versions, but the 32- and 64-bit versions too < 1222105895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, extern void __brkpos; < 1222105896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222105908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I read the comment < 1222105909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the double underscore should warn you that something's up there < 1222105910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still wtf < 1222105922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and void is the right data type, brkpos is literally 0 bytes long < 1222105959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way comp.lang.c told me that I was talking nonsense < 1222105963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works, so I don't care < 1222105965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't double underscore used for "compiler internal variables/functions" < 1222105971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, exactly < 1222105973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gcc's __builtin_foo() < 1222105976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think that is? < 1222105982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a compiler here, after all... < 1222105985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1222106000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for tusho to make a snarky comment
< 1222106002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but does the C standard define this reserved "namespace"? < 1222106006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1222106010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222106021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double underscore followed by anything, or single underscore followed by a capital letter < 1222106030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and one underscore? Seems to be libc stuff a lot of the time < 1222106042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fed up of arguing with AnMaster, I wish I could /ignore him but then I'd miss out on half of #esoteric. < 1222106043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both defined in both standards, but the first is used in C89 more and the second is used in C99 more < 1222106050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a particularly good half... but a continuity-making half. < 1222106059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single underscore is not defined by the standard as such < 1222106063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION say the same about tusho
< 1222106071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's "says". < 1222106072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for capital letters < 1222106078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, thanks < 1222106099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's become a sort of pseudonamespace that tends to be used neither by implementations nor by user programs < 1222106110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's in libc, though, the only legitimate reason I can think of is that it's linking to something in asm < 1222106123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it is mostly used by libraries then? < 1222106131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between C identifiers and asm identifiers on most systems is that the asm version of a C identifier has an extra _ at the start < 1222106135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by who? < 1222106140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries normally < 1222106149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really stuff like _var shouldn't be used by anyone, it's just confusing < 1222106157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C program can use it under some situations, but why? < 1222106166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need < 1222106170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exception: _ is in the user namespace, and quite commonly used as a macro name, by gettext, for instance) < 1222106170 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222106186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think valgrind headers sometimes use triple underscore < 1222106189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1222106212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in that case most likely they're interfacing with compiler internals in the asm < 1222106218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus two underscores from the internals, one for asm < 1222106226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also one and two < 1222106233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in various places < 1222106243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, valgrind's linking against the user program < 1222106255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222106256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it uses names like __vg_replace_malloc in implementation namespace < 1222106266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl sorry < 1222106267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid clashes with user program identifiers < 1222106269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for standards questions like extern void, you might want to ask comp.std.c < 1222106296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to check that you don't clash with any well-known compiler than it is to check with any program anyone's ever written < 1222106308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I know about comp.std.c, mostly they don't like questions so much < 1222106317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they prefer complaints about tricky bits in the standard < 1222106325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like asking why gets is still there, for instance < 1222106328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222106336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas comp.lang.c answer questions about what's allowed in programs < 1222106819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's more eco-friendly than keeping servers in the garden? Have you even considered the possibility of sentient tomatoes? < 1222106840 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTAAAACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES! < 1222106842 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTAAAACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES! < 1222106860 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'LL BEAT YOU, BASH YOU, SQUEEZE YOU, CHEW YOU UP FOR LUNCH! < 1222106870 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND FINISH YOU UP, FOR SUPPER OR LUNCH < 1222106873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the context, though < 1222106887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentient tomatoes would be so much more eco-friendly than a server in the garden < 1222107094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I don't think any mainstream newsgroup or irc channel would like what you are doing < 1222107101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too esoteric < 1222107110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, gcc-bf? < 1222107114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222107118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah, see, there are people with senses of humour < 1222107124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes us :) < 1222107124 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people like it just fine, if amusedly < 1222107130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: however... you're not in that set < 1222107134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell < 1222107140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know about channels like ##c and such < 1222107149 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c is not mainstream < 1222107152 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the bullshit fringe < 1222107159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf isnt humorous, really < 1222107164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I *do* like gcc-bf < 1222107172 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-148-172.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222107174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why you would think I don't < 1222107241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set = people who have a sense of humour < 1222107254 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster in set) -> false < 1222107294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would you say I have humor? < 1222107306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people have different senses of humour < 1222107313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have one but it's incompatible with tusho's < 1222107316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I agree < 1222107316 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1222107316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, people with a _good_ sense of humour < 1222107327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about everyone in #esoteric has one < 1222107334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1222107337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well good is subjective < 1222107350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like your sense of humor < 1222107358 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since I am in #esoteric, i can objectively say that an #esoteric-esque sense of humour is a good one < 1222107361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not have one... < 1222107366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't call one is better than the other < 1222107373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/call/say/ < 1222107409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you are just trolling, it is so pathetic < 1222107412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1222107417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no I am not trolling < 1222107426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disagreeing with you != trolling < 1222107429 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not liking you != trolling < 1222107434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, agreed < 1222107435 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accusing me of trolling without basis == trolling < 1222107443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but saying that "good" is objective < 1222107447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is false < 1222107452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way you act is trolling < 1222107463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in #esoteric, it can be objectively said that an #esoteric-esque sense of humour is good < 1222107468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative to #esoteric < 1222107471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calm down you two, you're both reasonable when you're on your own < 1222107473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you will note you are in < 1222107479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: disagreed on that point. < 1222107480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just something bad seems to happen when you end up in the same channel together < 1222107485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes but you can't objectively say what an "#esoteric-esque sense of humour" is < 1222107495 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, i can: it's the sense of humour most of #esoteric have < 1222107514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and then it isn't same as you certainly, I see lot of humor that you seem to ignore < 1222107524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you just don't notice it is humor < 1222107527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore != i didn't find it funny < 1222107541 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore == everyone spamming the channel with 'lol' is annoying < 1222107542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but I disagree that most have same humor as you < 1222107564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lol < 1222107569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1222107665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as far as I can tell libbf.c's malloc() will experience rather bad memory fragmentation, though I'm not sure < 1222107701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's plenty of memory to spare < 1222107706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not all that many files likely created < 1222107708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 16 MB you said < 1222107714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222107716 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 MB is plenty < 1222107717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a lot really < 1222107724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to store all my data on floppy disks < 1222107731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I appreciate how big a megabyte is < 1222107734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but will it be used for other stuff than file system that sbrk? < 1222107741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbrk's used for all malloc < 1222107749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sbrk is used by malloc < 1222107752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things use malloc < 1222107763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking you don't sbrk stuff directly because there's no way to give it back < 1222107772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err glibc uses mmap for large allocations < 1222107779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does openbsd's libc < 1222107782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is newlib I'm talking about < 1222107787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I checked all its dependencies < 1222107787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1222107789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap wasn't in them < 1222107791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the general case then < 1222107804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually hacked my linker to return all the dependencies it needed < 1222107859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one think I wonder how you solve in gcc-bf is function pointers. Do you use some global jump table? < 1222107867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a huge outer loop < 1222107870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222107875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually all looping's done like that < 1222107903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all labels, instead of being label: are more like ip=16; break; case 16: < 1222107952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw.... I thought about what you said about pointers being slow in gcc-bf... How fast is gcc-bf generally? < 1222107965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, it's vary variable < 1222107967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that is very hard to answer of course < 1222107969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/vary/very/ < 1222107977 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glacial, probably < 1222107989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically addition and subtraction can be done very fast as long as it's all in registers < 1222107994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can assignment < 1222107997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is slow < 1222108009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and computational-order-slow, for that matter < 1222108015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge's funge-space is quite heavy on pointers.... < 1222108020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other parts too < 1222108030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I changed the function-call interface < 1222108034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to put arguments in registers < 1222108036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs it, really < 1222108038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! it won't run cfunge in negative time! < 1222108042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fix it immediately! < 1222108072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: AnMaster is actually more intelligent and multi-track-minded than you give them credit for < 1222108083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I was just thinking since ais523 asked me about cfunge deps in relation to gcc-bf before (he asked, I didn't even consider it). < 1222108088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not before that is) < 1222108095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just idle speculation < 1222108103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering about what gcc-bf could run in theory < 1222108108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what it can run in a reasonable time < 1222108110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it may take a huge amount of time to even do hello world < 1222108110 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's annoying, that's what < 1222108111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1222108125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hello world has huge stdio overhead < 1222108134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write the POSIX version it can be done pretty quickly, I think < 1222108140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since even the setup of funge space pre-allocates a lot of more cells than really needed (20 000 by default iirc) < 1222108141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, using write() rather than printf() < 1222108155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean cfunge under gcc-bf doing hello world? < 1222108159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be insanely slkow < 1222108162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/k// < 1222108163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222108183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually cfunge initially allocates #define FUNGESPACEINITIALSIZE 150000 cells < 1222108203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is tuned for mycology there, yes I know tusho will make fun of it, no I don't care about him < 1222108221 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm not going to make fun of it so that your sentence was a waste of typing < 1222108223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what posix version of hello world? < 1222108223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the main problem I'm finding with gcc-bf is that it throws all the common knowledge about optimisation out of the window < 1222108224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1222108230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the one that uses write rather than printf < 1222108234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and solely for that reason) < 1222108236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222108248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I guess so < 1222108278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be still faster with __builtin_dot and __builtin_comma or whatever I decide to call them when I get round to writing them < 1222108286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you do manage to compile cfunge under it (and even get it to output it's help) I would really really like to know how large the binary was < 1222108292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other six BF commands are probably best avoided < 1222108297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what do you mean "binary"? < 1222108310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck programs are text... < 1222108314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: __builtin_output, __builtin_input < 1222108316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, wrong word < 1222108317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program < 1222108322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_move_left, __builtin_move_right < 1222108323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, good idea < 1222108325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222108328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_increment < 1222108331 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_decrement < 1222108335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for the lulz: < 1222108340 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_loop_start < 1222108342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_loop_end < 1222108344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that could mess up the program if you did it the wrong way < 1222108350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the loop ones? < 1222108350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222108355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but __builtin_ is pretty dangerous anyway < 1222108358 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd be funny < 1222108361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, with an early version which just linked and output dummy executables, I got autoconf to configure C-INTERCAL to cross-compile to brainfuck, and it correctly identified the default output filename as a.b. I was very impressed.) < 1222108365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they'd work kind of like setjmp < 1222108368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in their interface < 1222108375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the other ones could mess with register state or memory pointer too < 1222108376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222108381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: as I said, the other 6 are probably best avoided < 1222108382 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yeah < 1222108384 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1222108388 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're esoteric, though < 1222108393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move_left and move_right would actually be worst of all < 1222108395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ,.+- are probably the least dangerous < 1222108399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) { __builtin_increment(); __builtin_loop_start(); printf("hello world!\n"); builtin_loop_end(); return 0; } < 1222108401 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D :D :D < 1222108401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they would basically cause all of memory to no longer exist < 1222108411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, __builtin_ is ALWAYS dangerous territory < 1222108415 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's best to expose as much as possible < 1222108424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some crazy soul will write a program that uses them and it will WORK < 1222108428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and - would be safe, you could give it an argument saying where the pointer should be at the time < 1222108437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly you should have __asm__ too < 1222108443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have __asm__ < 1222108447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the library I linked < 1222108449 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use the register stuff in the __asm__ syntax to avoid register clobbering < 1222108453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it do brainfuck, though? < 1222108457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, it does ABI < 1222108460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222108465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you should have a brainfuck __asm__ < 1222108465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that reminds me, what is the syntax for that strange __asm__ < 1222108465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ABI will probably have a literal-brainfuck opcod < 1222108467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like __bf_asm__ < 1222108469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/e/ < 1222108473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, good < 1222108484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could implement __builtin_move_left yourself < 1222108485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it takes either 3 or 4 args, separated by colons < 1222108490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "lea (%1), (%%mark)\n" < 1222108490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\tloloop.32 %0\n" < 1222108491 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by using the ABI thing to do "lit [" < 1222108491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1222108494 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "<" < 1222108496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff like that < 1222108517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is the asm you want, the second describes the outputs, the third describes the input, and the fourth tells it what registers are clobbered < 1222108533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's typical ABI that you're quoting there < 1222108557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I can (from reading libbf.c) see plenty of ways to make programs that would break gcc-bf in subtle ways < 1222108565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's actually an ABI template, so % becomes %, and %1 and %0 are replaced < 1222108568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: examples? < 1222108585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that signal stuff looks suspect in pass 15 for example < 1222108594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *may* be safe, not sure how it is used < 1222108601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all done with newlib's simulated signals < 1222108618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IOW it doesn't have to be reentrant or anything like that that's normally important with signals < 1222108633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no way to get a signal other than raise or abort < 1222108676 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1222108702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, am I right to guess that in gcc-bf a program with many small functions (non-inlined, maybe because they are recursive or whatever) will be a lot slower than a program with a few large functions? < 1222108758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if recursive, yes; if not, probably not all that much because although using the call stack is moderately slow looping and goto have overhead just as function calls do < 1222108782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, gcc translates all flow control to goto or one of three types of function call internally) < 1222108797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even if? < 1222108800 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1222108803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed goto? < 1222108818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is done by computed goto, yes < 1222108829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? how strange < 1222108845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does gcc optimise tail recursive functions btw? < 1222108845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always in a conventional form, though < 1222108863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which corresponds to goto *(x ? &&label1 : &&label2) < 1222108874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can do, it needs special patterns in the machine description for a sibling call though < 1222108913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm gettimeofday() returns a constant... what should then be used for srandom()? < 1222108928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also cfunge would lockup forever if gettimeofday() never changes < 1222108933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering about that too, about the only thing I can think of is asking the user < 1222108945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've been wondering if gettimeofday should increment the time every time it's called < 1222108946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since it uses a loop to check the granularity of gettimeofday() in HRTI < 1222108949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent that sort of lockup < 1222108971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough, I could just use a static variable holding the fake time < 1222109052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is what cfunge does first time HRTI is loaded http://rafb.net/p/EAxpoX15.html < 1222109077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I can hack it to get that to work easily enough < 1222109086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, though HRTI wouldn't work at all under gcc-bf for various other reasons < 1222109091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is more than one possible set of bogus data to return from gettimeofday() < 1222109094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is time measure < 1222109109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well incrementing by one every time could work < 1222109175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " (void) tz;" < 1222109177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1222109195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: usual trick to tell warning-generators that you aren't using the variable < 1222109204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that particular idiom's recognised by pretty much all lintalikes < 1222109211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since this needs gcc anyway what is wrong with __attribute__((unused)) < 1222109220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a lot longer. < 1222109222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like doing it portably, besides it's faster to type < 1222109226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus why be unportable when it's unneeded < 1222109233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: snap < 1222109239 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222109275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if (void)tz; translates into any code anyway on any sane compiler < 1222109282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indee < 1222109284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed* < 1222109306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf's insane and it doesn't even translate into any code on that < 1222109361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't "shared" parts of gcc remove it before? < 1222109381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it's probably removed in RTL < 1222109383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh computed goto how will that work in gcc-bf? < 1222109393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can < 1222109403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't* just jump to a specific place in the code < 1222109403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whole thing's basically a massive switch statement, so very easily < 1222109412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? for every address? < 1222109423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every possible break in program flow < 1222109438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if you used computed goto to go elsewhere? < 1222109448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program's broken into cases at every label, if, goto, loop and function call < 1222109458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed goto can goto any label it likes < 1222109471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void _exit(int rv) < 1222109471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1222109471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (void)rv; < 1222109471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto *(void*)0; < 1222109471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1222109477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each label is a place that program flow could potentially be transferred to < 1222109488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exit goes to the start? < 1222109495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't start at 0! < 1222109508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops never do in brainfuck < 1222109535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that is one weird function by normal standards < 1222109539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for case 23.... isn't that true for lots of other functions too? sqrtl, tanl, sinl, cosl, asinl and so on < 1222109557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge check that they exist and fall back to double variants < 1222109562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... hm < 1222109578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's to do with which functions are used by newlib, and which ones aren't < 1222109581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib needs fabsl to exist < 1222109597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my library is just like gcc; it implements bits of C99 but not all of them < 1222109606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, case 24 says old style prototype, but I don't see that. All I see is a modern varargs prototype: "int fcntl(int fd, int cmd, ...)" < 1222109611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not oldstyle+ < 1222109615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1222109626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, it implements the bits that newlib needs < 1222109633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't get that warning on case 24 < 1222109640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you actually trying to compile that code? < 1222109654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I was reading your comemnt < 1222109656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of it doesn't make any sense on any platform other than gcc-bf < 1222109659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment* < 1222109661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1222109663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" n.b. old-style prototype as we don't know how many arguments we're getting and thus need to force an unprototyped call " < 1222109664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was old-style once < 1222109666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I changed it < 1222109671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it is varargs < 1222109673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and forgot to update the comment < 1222109683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was using old-style argument type-punning < 1222109689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lots of the old BSD interfaces did < 1222109705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually it turned out to be varargs < 1222109710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I don't see any calls to functions to handle varargs stuff in there < 1222109716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic really because I never use the third argument < 1222109717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like va_start va_end and such < 1222109743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ... is needed though so it passes args on the stack < 1222109758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :varargs calling conventions are different on most architectures from the non-varargs version < 1222109773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/fcntl.h:extern int fcntl (int __fd, int __cmd, ...); < 1222109786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird to use __ in parameter list < 1222109786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a ... in newlib's .h too < 1222109794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not at all in a system header file < 1222109802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if the user does #define fd before including it < 1222109808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... right < 1222109815 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222109822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :header files can't mention any user-namespace stuff at all other than what they're meant to be defining < 1222109832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(splint actually gives a warning about this on its strictest mode...) < 1222109849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm does opening /dev/null work? < 1222109866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if it doesn't exist and you don't specify O_CREAT < 1222109874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no directory structure, no special filenames < 1222109879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean a null device node < 1222109885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no device nodes < 1222109888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222109890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdin/out/err are special-cased < 1222109901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is a regular file, all chars but NUL allowed in filenames, no directories < 1222109920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, all files are owned by root, nosuid, noexec, permissions 644 < 1222109929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, am I right in my understanding that gcc-bf will have one very advanced security feature? < 1222109941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the inability to do anything BF can't do? < 1222109968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandatory NX on the data and write protected code? < 1222109974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that mprotect() can't change it < 1222109975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222109996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could make it sound enterprisy :) < 1222110000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandatory NX on data, mandatory NR/NW on the code < 1222110022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly gcc requires executable stack to implement nested functions < 1222110029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounding like a crazy esoteric code wizard who can code something like gcc-bf is sometimes better than sounding enerprisey < 1222110032 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enterprisey < 1222110032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I decided to not implement that because they aren't part of standard C anyway < 1222110033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah hm < 1222110061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. Except I have seriously considered adding JIT using llvm or similiar to cfunge < 1222110075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only thing blocking that is 1) time 2) LLVM is C++ < 1222110095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I may write the bytecode version some time in which the program is stored in the same memory as the data < 1222110104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only the VM would be unreadable and unwritable < 1222110107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would be even slower :D < 1222110122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory would be "nonexecutable", but the VM could execute it so there wouldn't be a problem < 1222110134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't think it would be slower by a factor of more than n^2 or so < 1222110138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it would be an optional cfunge feature if I did it < 1222110153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n^2.. haha < 1222110162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: luckily gcc-bf runs in polynomial time, I think < 1222110178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1222110265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which column in ps aux is the memory usage that would be relevant for gcc-bf? < 1222110287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND < 1222110287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid 11814 0.2 0.5 18080 7948 pts/4 T 20:03 0:00 build/cfunge -S mycology/mycology.b98 < 1222110302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably all of them added together < 1222110305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from PID < 1222110316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CPU and memory percent < 1222110320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1222110328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so VSZ + RSS? < 1222110332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1222110338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in what units? 18080 + 7948 < 1222110340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire OS is inside the program too < 1222110353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure if it will fit with mycology inside 16 MB RAM < 1222110393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge wasn't coded for that memory limited systems < 1222110406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16MB of ram is not memory limited. < 1222110417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've fit an entire Linux distro into 16 MB disk space, 64 MB RAM < 1222110424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a gui app running on a fully-featured OS, sure. < 1222110425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I had to take bits out to fit Python on there < 1222110431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an esolang interp, no, 16MB is luxury < 1222110436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, fully featured? As in Linux? < 1222110444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or Windows or OS X. < 1222110445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *are* looking for a fight < 1222110470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :119890 * 8 bytes for 64-bit cfunge to hold mycology < 1222110478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's in kilobytes < 1222110500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, 26MB is a bit too much < 1222110502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1222110507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, debug info I bet < 1222110515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why can't you have infinite memory < 1222110517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, gcc-bf doesn't support debug info < 1222110518 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that of the BF host < 1222110532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it does, but you can't take pointers to stuff outside the first 16MB < 1222110542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1222110545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it pretty hard to use with regular C programs < 1222110551 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps have an extension thing:a < 1222110553 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a composite type < 1222110555 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1222110560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it gets down to 17 MB without it < 1222110562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16mb + one byte < 1222110563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1222110565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is 64-bit funge remember < 1222110570 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__mem(1, 1) < 1222110582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1222110589 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__mem(multiples of 16 for base offset, value) < 1222110590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how much of that is on the stack? < 1222110594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addresses memory at offset+value < 1222110609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, most is the hash table on the heap, which have lots and lots of pointers < 1222110611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get 16MB for the stack, and another 16MB for heap + bss + initialised data + rodata combined < 1222110619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use a memory pool to allocate the cells from < 1222110622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the program itself doesn't count < 1222110636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 16 million basic blocks there < 1222110646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easily enough for anything I'm likely to be able to think of < 1222110654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember my pointers are 64 bits < 1222110663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86_64 < 1222110663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, mine are 32 bits < 1222110671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they're 26 bits < 1222110676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but padded to 32 for sanity reasons < 1222110687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and only a tiny fraction of the memory is on the stack < 1222110691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally C likes sizeof(void*) to be an integer < 1222110696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically arguments + local variables < 1222110702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pity < 1222110707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be fast to access the stack, though < 1222110711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have much on it < 1222110725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I pass pointers to stuff on the heap < 1222110734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about static const arrays? < 1222110743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in the same memory storage as the heap is < 1222110744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use one large such to look up fingerprint function pointer in < 1222110814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I don't think I use all that memory, but the initial hash table size is on the large size, I found that it helped performance quite a bit in mycology < 1222110839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe I can just reduce the numbers a bit, I don't think performance is likely to be very important here... < 1222110856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222110864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me build a x86 build < 1222110869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubling the speed of your program is pointless when the interpreter's making it worse by several factors of n < 1222111013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my normal build is 2.5 MB binary with debug info and 160 KB after strip, with an -Os x86_32 build I got 79 KB after strip < 1222111042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should get a buildable-by-someone-else version of gcc_bf up sometime < 1222111051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have a go at running what I've done so far < 1222111052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND < 1222111053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid 13331 4.0 0.3 6780 5400 pts/4 T 20:17 0:00 build_32/cfunge -S mycology/mycology.b98 < 1222111063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is *without* changing the initial alloc size < 1222111074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-gcc -o works fine atm (and is equivalent to bf-gcc -S apart from the output filename) < 1222111085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those numbers look tenable < 1222111091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well 32-bit pointers < 1222111095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells a lot doesn't it? < 1222111103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge is extremely pointer heavy < 1222111111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 32-bit ints too < 1222111116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also extremely int heavy < 1222111122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I used that in the last 64-bit build < 1222111125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least native-int-size heavy < 1222111129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1222111129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't make a lot of difference < 1222111142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, code that pointy isn't going to go well with brainfuck < 1222111147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as brainfuck doesn't like pointers or anything similar < 1222111160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well a hash library is pointy by definition kind of < 1222111189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried to reduce pointers there < 1222111198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special case the hash library code < 1222111235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if I wrote a funge interp from scratch in brainfuck, I could take advantage of the infinite memory to not bother with hashing < 1222111254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from using a void* pointer in the nodes to point at the data to contain the data directly in the record < 1222111261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said 16 MB < 1222111263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not infinite < 1222111274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was talking about brainfuck in general not gcc-fb < 1222111277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fb/bf/ < 1222111281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you do have infinite memory < 1222111283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you wouldn't want to write a befunge-98 from scratch, it is *hard* the first time < 1222111291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are such a lot of pitfalls < 1222111298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a lot easier the second time with efunge < 1222111300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf has infinite memory but it doesn't have infinite addressable memory, so the infinite memory is a bit pointless < 1222111305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then I hit several of those pitfalls < 1222111309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't use mycology for testing it's a lot easier ;-P < 1222111327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it doesn't test everything < 1222111336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit? < 1222111352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of hard to test every possible valid befunge-98 program :-P < 1222111358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, kk ..... k v ...... kt kq < 1222111366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ;P < 1222111371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh kkk too < 1222111388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does o do again? < 1222111389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it means you can do like MS: Rig the POSIX test < 1222111395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, output to a file < 1222111396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkkt is bad enough to think about, anyway < 1222111398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i reads from a file < 1222111406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#tkkkt < 1222111410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are voluntary < 1222111415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, gah < 1222111424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222111428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: probably worth having something on the stack beforehand < 1222111436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y#tkkkt < 1222111440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1222111441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh! < 1222111445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1222111449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1222111453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>yt < 1222111459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1222111493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fork bomb for funge < 1222111494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222111499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1222111502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single t is < 1222111505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yt < 1222111525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1222111529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just ran #tkkkt in debug mode in ccbi < 1222111536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh what happened? < 1222111536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm doing < 1222111538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, y#tkkkt < 1222111539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the "argh" < 1222111546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashed :-/ < 1222111548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went into an infinite loop at the first k < 1222111553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ais523: leason: Set your ulimits! < 1222111560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busyloop by the feel of it as everything else on the computer stopped responding < 1222111570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if I only knew what caused the crash < 1222111582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it doesn't crash in cfunge < 1222111588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and it's certainly worth setting ulimits when compiling gcc-bf, several times the resulting code, which runs during the compilation, turned out to have infinite recursion < 1222111593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does it do in cfunge? < 1222111595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, all it does is hit my ulimit after about 2 seconds < 1222111613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a stack overflow crash < 1222111625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which ulimit does it hit? < 1222111626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you store the stuff on the stack? < 1222111639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -m < 1222111663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with is 256 MB < 1222111663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that one do? < 1222111669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever used it < 1222111673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited < 1222111677 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what, you think I should allocate k's stack frame on the heap? :-P < 1222111677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't understand the docs for it < 1222111685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, -m is "max resident set size" on my computer < 1222111716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right < 1222111719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm < 1222111760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1222111786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea what that means < 1222111797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait it hit -v first actually < 1222111799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got both set < 1222111808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-v was 300 MB < 1222111814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, -v is one of the ones I normally set when I have a hunch that something might hit ulimit < 1222111820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I set it quite low, though < 1222111834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what happened to be exact was: < 1222111835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could not create IP, possibly out of memory? < 1222111835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things may be broken now, continuing anyway. < 1222111835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unexpected error. < 1222111857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what logic I used for that < 1222111882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and the 25 MB, those include libraries I think < 1222111888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I set -v low enough I get: < 1222111900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./cfunge: error while loading shared libraries: libdl.so.2: failed to map segment from shared object: Cannot allocate memory < 1222111910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was for 10 MB < 1222111913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on -v < 1222111926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could explain the huge memory usage < 1222111932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses and such for example < 1222111960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222111968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it seems cfunge does *not* handle most errors gracefully really: < 1222111971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ncurses may be a lot simpler on gcc-bf < 1222111974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ( ulimit -v $(( 15 * 1024 )); ./cfunge -S test.b98; ) < 1222111974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge: /home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/ip.c:199: ipListDuplicateIP: Assertion `index <= (*me)->top' failed. < 1222111982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it needs terminal move < 1222111985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I get it working there at all < 1222111993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all I use from ncurses are the low level terminfo bits < 1222112006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use the high level dialog functions < 1222112018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what happens if you try to write to /dev/full inside cfunge? < 1222112023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a useful device to know about < 1222112039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well using o, it should refelect < 1222112054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the issue is that it doesn't handle realloc/malloc errors gracefully all the time < 1222112061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many people take the possibility of reflecting o into account? < 1222112063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests
< 1222112074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I certainly do reflect on it in some cases < 1222112076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, handling realloc/malloc errors can often be done simply by wrapping realloc and malloc < 1222112082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you do when you code since o is optional < 1222112084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant when writing Funge programs < 1222112095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1222112099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to check with y if i and o are implemented < 1222112159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ( ulimit -v $(( 13 * 1024 )); ./cfunge -S test.b98; ) < 1222112159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc: Cannot allocate memory < 1222112159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't create funge space!?: Illegal seek < 1222112159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222112169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just try bouncing filenames off them to see what happens < 1222112173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I know what that was. :D mmap failing < 1222112206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems at least 11 MB alone in the 64-bit build is needed to load the libraries and the binary < 1222112229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the libraries and binary aren't in memory for gcc-bf < 1222112234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no problem to worry about there < 1222112259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed and on linux the libraries will be shared with other apps < 1222112263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapped into memory < 1222112274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas gcc-bf statically links everything < 1222112277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just one copy of each libary < 1222112280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library* < 1222112280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no more than one program per universe < 1222112304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. Does ick have issues with dlopen/dlclose btw? < 1222112316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't do, it doesn't notice them itself < 1222112323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will have no idea if you're using them or not < 1222112330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1222112478 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-24-48.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222112496 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222112500 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222112542 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222114208 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222114425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need your help with an issue < 1222114432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1222114437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a sec for link < 1222114458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, read the comments on http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=18937 < 1222114467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't got any response < 1222114473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :care to sort it out? < 1222114497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the *direct* link is needed since it is a program that downloads, not a human < 1222114502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comment? < 1222114504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that person doesn't seem to understand it < 1222114507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one by Claudio? < 1222114513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly < 1222114519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand his situation better than you do, probably < 1222114528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I need *direct link to tarball* < 1222114531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else works < 1222114532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is more than one download site for c-intercal < 1222114536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's suggesting you link to the other one < 1222114541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what one? < 1222114549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a direct link to the tarball again < 1222114571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it will be fetched by a program, not by a human like he seems to assume < 1222114590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intercal.ukfsn.org/download/ick-0-28.tgz and http://intercal.freeshell.org/download/ick-0-28.tgz are the two download locations for C-INTERCAL 0.28 < 1222114597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, select one < 1222114605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is *permanent* < 1222114616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is maybe neither of them are < 1222114626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should persuade tusho to host a permanent version < 1222114629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it was over a month since I responded to him and he didn't reply < 1222114635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what an arse" is my feeling < 1222114645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what an arse" who < 1222114656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw if you expect C-INTERCAL download locations to be permanent, you are obviously unaware of the history; many versions were never distributed over either HTTP or FTP) < 1222114669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some were done as shars over usenet, others were distributed as patches to other versions < 1222114675 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, AnMaster is calling Claudio an arse? < 1222114677 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck you too AnMaster < 1222114677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222114678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the link will be fetched by wget basically (actually curl iirc) < 1222114689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about using a redirection service? < 1222114690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I need a link *which works for that* < 1222114692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a tarball < 1222114713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't http://intercal.freeshell.org/download/ick-.tgz provide that? < 1222114714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand what you need, I'm just trying to explain you might not be able to get it < 1222114716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems natural < 1222114730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or you could use the sourceforge mirror system :) < 1222114740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that for cfunge *exactly for that reason* < 1222114741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourceforge... now there's an idea < 1222114761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it is the only bit I use the cfunge project on there for really < 1222114790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it should be perfect for mirror network < 1222114811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe I'll move to eso-std.org when I'm convinced that tusho won't move everything around every 10 seconds < 1222114825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sf.net seems sane to me < 1222114833 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know me. I'll move it around as soon as AnMaster updates his thing to use it < 1222114837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why didn't he bother to respond I tried to ask what he meant? < 1222114848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: people have lives < 1222114852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he tends to be busy, I think < 1222114870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet another reason to use sf.net, I think they changed download link once the last 5 years :P < 1222114894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from dl.sourceforge.net/project/filename to download.sourceforge.net/project/filename < 1222114900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1222114919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes http://downloads.sourceforge.net/cfunge/cfunge-0.3.2.tar.bz2 < 1222114924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be dl subdomain < 1222114951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that redirects to some mirror < 1222114968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: evil idea: use Debian's version of the original source < 1222114976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um huh? < 1222114979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mirrored all over hte place < 1222114981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that permanent in any way? < 1222114985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1222114992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bundled in the dpkg < 1222115000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with a Debian-specific diff < 1222115001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no way I'm extracting that < 1222115027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do odd stuff already: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/c-intercal/c-intercal/PKGBUILD < 1222115042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick at least used to break at -j2 or higher < 1222115046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's less than a page of odd stuff < 1222115085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that looks positively sane < 1222115111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the gentoo version: http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=157803 < 1222115130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(odd that Claudio didn't comment on http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228563) < 1222115139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better, but still too short < 1222115151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222115154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw config.sh is named configure again in -1.29, you'll be glad to know) < 1222115330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IMHO, the major.minor.major version is asking for trouble. What will happen if < 1222115330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstream decides to add a micro version component? I think the Gentoo version < 1222115330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should follow major.minor (i.e., 28.0, even if this is boring)." < 1222115332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw ^ < 1222115368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I actually have incomplete plans somewhere for a complete Debian-legal version mangling scheme < 1222115375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even got hold of the source to dpkg to check < 1222115381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1222115383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 28.0 won't handle the version numbers for the alphas < 1222115395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1.29 = alpha for 0.29 < 1222115400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly -1.0.29 < 1222115407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even 1.-3.0.29 < 1222115411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure yet < 1222115621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well we will just skip alphas then < 1222115640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is tempted to release a version of C-INTERCAL with a version number like "fish" to annoy everyone
< 1222115653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just make versions C-INTERCAL programs < 1222115654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't, though, that would be evil < 1222115657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short ones < 1222115658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one line ones < 1222115660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, "fish" :-D < 1222115700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222115784 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire..." < 1222115986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, better yet: make the version fish and the *codename* 0.29 < 1222115988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222115995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222116003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's had various codenames at various stages < 1222116007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1222116010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1.29 is a good one, though, as it's pretty obvious what it means < 1222116021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was called 1.29 at one point, because I wasn't sure if it was a bugfix release or not < 1222116023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX (and metafont) have that funny version numbering, where the version number approaches pi (or e for metafont) by adding one digit to the end of the version number; TeX is currently at 3.1415926. But maybe that's too user-friendly since it's just a monotonically increasing number. < 1222116042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know < 1222116057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't latex at 2e soon? < 1222116076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure most people know, but since the topic was version numbering... < 1222116214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I thought it was clc that did negative? < 1222116226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222116232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clc does negatives using decimal, though < 1222116238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty easy to translate < 1222116245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas C-INTERCAL is lexicographic < 1222116278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so 1.-94.-2 is? < 1222116289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.598 < 1222116326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you contact Claudio and explain why *direct link to tarball* is needed, since he now added an offending text at the top of http://intercal.freeshell.org/download/ about that < 1222116335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hope you can do it soon < 1222116349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I will just give up on it, it needs a stable link < 1222116358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that means it has to be source forge < 1222116360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think he's pretty much pointing out that a stable link is unavailable via his servers < 1222116404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well gentoo will mirror it to it's own servers if the ebuild get accepted, but they will fetch from the original < 1222116415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while archlinux won't mirror source < 1222116421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case just point Arch at the Gentoo servers and you're done < 1222116449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't work since old mirrored files are cleaned out when the corresponding ebuild is removed < 1222116465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when it is updated the link will suddenly get invalid overnight < 1222116477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's always a risk < 1222116485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well why not sf.net? < 1222116500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a reason *against* using them for mirroring < 1222116520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for code or website hosting sure, but their mirror system is way way more stable < 1222116564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can use them for that if you like < 1222116578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to register the c-intercal project there then < 1222116580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, INTERCAL was never really based on practicality < 1222116584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are the maintainer < 1222116591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upload new releases < 1222116606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't want distributions to include packages? < 1222116609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that correct? < 1222116614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222116629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well Debian rarely seem to have a problem, they even found some of them without hints < 1222116641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems strange that distros demand a stable download link < 1222116645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that is due to them hosting it themselves < 1222116652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just update the link whenever it changes? < 1222116653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *source based distro* < 1222116662 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523's job is to make INTERCAL as difficult as possible to work with in any way < 1222116667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what package managers are good at, isn't it? < 1222116670 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are asking him to do exactly the opposite < 1222116679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, yes, I get criticised on a.l.i if I make it too easy... < 1222116692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I've gone too far letting it build without manual tinkering < 1222116693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rot13 the tar.gz < 1222116699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I read a.l.i, it is dead basically < 1222116701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you use < 1222116709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lots of people read it, hardly anyone writes there though < 1222116712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody'll get it to work < 1222116720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dead :P < 1222116723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: .pax.lzma, I'm thinking, with .pax.bz2 and .pax.gz versions too < 1222116726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way anyone can read it < 1222116729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and rot13 it < 1222116741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I don't write because I don't have access to anything but readonly newserver < 1222116746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: INTERCAL doesn't necessarily have to be difficult, but it does have to be different < 1222116758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using a POSIX standard format when nobody else does = win < 1222116769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: .pax.lzma, I'm thinking, with .pax.bz2 and .pax.gz versions too <-- gentoo's unpack ebuild command handle them all < 1222116769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222116776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comp my irssi runs on doesn't even have pax < 1222116783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's upward-compatible with tar < 1222116785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has access to a write newserver < 1222116787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google) < 1222116790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular tar can read pax-encoded files < 1222116793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it doesn't know it < 1222116805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU tar can even create them < 1222116814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ type pax < 1222116814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pax is /usr/bin/pax < 1222116815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have pax on this os x system < 1222116818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if it contains stuff like over-255-char filenames or whatever pax supports that tar doesn't? < 1222116833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets mapped to files with long complicated names that don't clash with anything < 1222116839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a tar-suitable version instead < 1222116840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, idea: use ar not tar < 1222116844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since tar is for tape < 1222116848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't preserve directory structure < 1222116854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked into that when tusho suggested it, though < 1222116854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, argh true < 1222116876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make an ar which contains ars which are named according to directory < 1222116884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so foo/bar/baz becomes foo.a -> bar.a -> baz.a -> files < 1222116891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1222116891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222116907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to write an unpacker script for then ;P < 1222116911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think .pax is perfect, it doesn't actually require any extra effort from people but they don't realise it < 1222116920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes that sounds good < 1222116936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was there any comments on CREATE on a.l.i? < 1222116941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I think people will just try tar xf and be happy when it works :-P < 1222116955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was going to tell them that that's what they should do < 1222116962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think they'd guess even without/ < 1222116968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nop < 1222116971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would google < 1222116973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some wouldn't even notice that it's pax and not tar < 1222116988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? really? < 1222117004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just see "XXXX.XaX.gz" and use tar xzf :-P < 1222117023 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something occurred to me on the bus today: Stereotypical black guy = valley girl | sed 's/like/motherfucker/g' < 1222117037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what? XD < 1222117046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fri Sep 12 17:17:02 CEST 2008 ais523@bham.ac.uk < 1222117047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun Sep 14 11:12:25 CEST 2008 Alex Smith < 1222117053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Google is really unhelpful at determining how to unpack a pax < 1222117056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ what is up with those escape codes? < 1222117059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: comments < 1222117061 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested comments. < 1222117061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no escapes at all < 1222117062 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: comments < 1222117062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the darcs messages < 1222117064 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is trying to break your mailer < 1222117064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a valid email address < 1222117065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222117066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222117067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has nested comments in < 1222117080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah does any modern email client handle it < 1222117081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no spambot I know of is capable of handling them < 1222117088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222117095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, far from all humans too < 1222117095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, Thunderbird can handle comments but not nested comments, I've heard < 1222117095 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: There was the world's most stereotype-conformant black guy on the bus today. It was ridiculous. It's like he went to racist websites and adopted every stupid stereotype they had. And yeah, that's the equivalence. < 1222117147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems darcs pull locked up < 1222117152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the utility of a complicated comment syntax with nested comments and escapes for the comment delimiters in email addresses is somewhat suspect < 1222117173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, protecting against spambots? < 1222117175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it shouldn't have < 1222117186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's partly spambot protection, and partly just because I can < 1222117198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I pressed y for the last patch and then nothing < 1222117203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the latest version the cfunge stuff is broken as I haven't redone the built process for it < 1222117216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try killing and restarting the connection? < 1222117223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, trying... < 1222117225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same issue < 1222117238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it used to have some output < 1222117247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does once it's downloaded < 1222117255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does that when it has network problems < 1222117270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries --verbose
< 1222117277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex Smith **20080914091817] < 1222117277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diffing dir... < 1222117279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it stops < 1222117298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, I've never known it to crash there before < 1222117325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as I moved everything to different places using the wrong commands I could understand if it got a bit confused, but darcs is good at that sort of thing < 1222117372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems to be swap trashing? < 1222117375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try a clean unpack myself < 1222117423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for me from clean < 1222117468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's an awfully quiet bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147346 < 1222117498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recreates a tree 3 patches from the end, then tries pulling the last 3
< 1222117503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what AnMaster's doing I think < 1222117513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222117522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying make clean and such now < 1222117539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it worked < 1222117539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked fine for me < 1222117549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that was, then < 1222117554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it worked after make clean and removing cfunge build tree in there < 1222117617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work cross-compiling yet < 1222117636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to tell automake to build with native compiler rather than cross-compiler even in a cross-compilation build < 1222117657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1222117668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah wait < 1222117674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three flags < 1222117680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--host --build --target < 1222117683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for gcc < 1222117686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know taht < 1222117694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know how Automake handles that situation < 1222117708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc isn't automake-based IIRC < 1222117712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1222117718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just autoconf < 1222117721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1222117730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the makefiles there seem to be generated dynamically as it is < 1222117733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think they would use their own stuff < 1222117746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf even has a Perl script which edits one of the makefiles < 1222117752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles once, edits the makefile and recompiles < 1222117754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1222117757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they started using autoconf and realized what crap it is before they got to automake < 1222117761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eugh why? < 1222117762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile isn't even there to edit before the first compile < 1222117783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is better than maintaining the files by hand < 1222117786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the makers of gcc in their infinite wisdom didn't forsee that an 8-bit system would need 64-bit emulation libraries < 1222117794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like cmake or scons beat both however < 1222117810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though cmake kind of sucks if you build shared libraries < 1222117814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has issues there < 1222117833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I had my idea for my own make system < 1222117838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'll call aimake if I make it < 1222117838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1222117846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need any input at all < 1222117851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1222117857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs gcc on every file in the current subdirectory? < 1222117858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it analyses all the stuff in your directory structure and works out what to do itself < 1222117866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222117876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does things like hook into ldd and analyse calls to open to work out dependencies < 1222117879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to see the efunge build system? < 1222117881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 2 lines: < 1222117889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{['src/*'],[{outdir, ebin},warn_obsolete_guard,warn_untyped_record,warn_unused_import,warn_missing_spec_all]}. < 1222117889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{['src/fingerprints/*'],[{outdir, ebin},warn_obsolete_guard,warn_untyped_record,warn_unused_import,warn_missing_spec_all]}. < 1222117894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emakefile < 1222117915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the fingerprint .spec files < 1222117921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a Makefile wrapper of 7 lines to have a make all target and clean < 1222117929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not part of build system < 1222117932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are maintainer scripts < 1222117935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coded in bash < 1222117956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the spec files just describe the fingerprints < 1222117971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're native build helpers < 1222117979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/VS8txA72.html < 1222117980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1222117981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1222117987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of thing that can be expressed in Automake which for some reason doesn't realise that they shouldn't be cross-compiled < 1222118000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's data for a native build helper < 1222118003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1222118010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably idiotism.oil is the same in C-INTERCAL < 1222118015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, .spec? < 1222118017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's quite a bit more complicated than those .spec files < 1222118019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean? < 1222118024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as .sepc < 1222118025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint specifications < 1222118028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ep/pe/ < 1222118028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec* < 1222118035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in terms of the effect it has on the build < 1222118036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well extension reuse :P < 1222118055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C-INTERCAL has plain-text documentation for many of the example programs, with extension .doc < 1222118063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed < 1222118063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason things keep assuming it's MS-Word files... < 1222118071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we were here first! < 1222118091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.doc is much older than MS Word < 1222118151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway the bash scripts that process those .spec files are large < 1222118161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they contain here documents with parts of the file < 1222118186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/LekfKu32.html < 1222118190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate the fingerprint list < 1222118194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops still says cfunge < 1222118199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the efunge version actually < 1222118204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ported them to efunge :( < 1222118208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)* < 1222118257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cfunge ones are similiar but make use of more of the fields in the .spec files < 1222118536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, http://tusho.net/blog/ redesign launched < 1222118654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1222118659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is that some genuine data on your blog/ < 1222118718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'genuine data'? < 1222118731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, something other than testing < 1222118736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222118737 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap < 1222118739 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the dates are wrong < 1222118740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1222118776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you refresh you will see that there has been actual posts there regularly since its startu < 1222118777 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p < 1222118787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222118788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i broked it again < 1222118817 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, if you refresh *now* < 1222118859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1222118884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://bzr.kuonet.org/efunge/b98/files < 1222118897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that feature branch is ready to merge into trunk soon < 1222118898 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, admittedly there was a 10 day gap after nazi dinosaurs < 1222118905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nazi dinosaurs have that big of an impact, you know? < 1222118909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they count for like 10 posts on their own < 1222118943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222118953 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ a nazi dinosaur's work < 1222118987 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222118987 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222119017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haldo. < 1222119070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1222119178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mention a mail client for linux that supports your email address please < 1222119183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any at all < 1222119192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat < 1222119202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah, mutt? pine? < 1222119213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try GNU mail, to see if it works < 1222119289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, GNU mail works just fine < 1222119297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you escape the parens from bash when invoking it < 1222119313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any GUI one? < 1222119319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least ncruses one? < 1222119362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution failed < 1222119371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mutt? < 1222119371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it managed the nested comments, but the \) fooled it < 1222119380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have mutt over here < 1222119383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, report a bug :) < 1222119386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pine? < 1222119398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably they'll claim that escaping \ in the To address is a feature < 1222119415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is against the specs? < 1222119421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delivery to the following recipients failed. < 1222119421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ais523(524\\)(525)x)"@bham.ac.uk@adf.bham.ac.uk < 1222119430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to escape \ to put it into an email address < 1222119443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's weirder breakage than I was expecting, in that bounce message < 1222119463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is I was using \ as an escape character, not as a character in the address < 1222119480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well is that allowed? < 1222119488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the specs say? < 1222119498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pine handle it < 1222119502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handles* < 1222119504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think you're getting what's going on here < 1222119513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to insert a literal \ in an email address you have to type it as \\ < 1222119519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1222119526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well pine handles your < 1222119526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, if you want to insert a literal ) you have to type it as \) < 1222119552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tried and as soon as I stopped editing the field it stripped the comment < 1222119553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly < 1222119571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done pine! < 1222119588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pine is curses based if you don't know < 1222119588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pine ftw < 1222119598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never cared much about liceses < 1222119600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume you do < 1222119605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pine is good for me < 1222119610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I use gmail.com < 1222119611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222119617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_(e-mail_client) < 1222119622 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The successor to Pine. < 1222119722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mutt fails < 1222119732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To: "524)(525)x" < 1222119741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or maybe not < 1222119744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1222119746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another interesting breakage... < 1222119755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that may be correct < 1222119765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's extracted the text of the comment and is using it as the realname < 1222119772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting thing to do with the comment, I suppose < 1222119806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I enter the full "Alex Smith " it works < 1222119810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To: Alex Smith < 1222119819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was when I just entered ais523(524\)(525)x)@bham.ac.uk < 1222119822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I got the other one < 1222119826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the realname from the comment is quite clever, really < 1222119835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in other words, most decent email clients succeed < 1222119846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I tried on Outlook Web Access; it wouldn't even let me send) < 1222119863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222119950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, file a bug against evolution < 1222119967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and put yourself on CC on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147346 < 1222119973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with that email* < 1222119975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222120001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug creates legal issues according to U.S. law since e.g. a trademark in a < 1222120001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :company's email address cannot be protected by the (tm) comment correctly. < 1222120012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1222120034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehehe? < 1222120036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1222120048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's an amusing joke < 1222120050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222120055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$.==1 || $.==4 and print $.==1?"[[\n":"]]\n" < 1222120061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4/3/ < 1222120071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, intercal? perl? line noise? < 1222120081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is obviously not intercal < 1222120082 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perl < 1222120086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl < 1222120090 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | my program is provably correct < 1222120092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite readable for Perl, too < 1222120095 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222120096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win topic is win < 1222120104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well line noise < 1222120112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahh < 1222120112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you ever /seen/ line noise? < 1222120115 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you joked that perl was line noise < 1222120122 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, it's as funny as it was in 1990! < 1222120129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahahahahhahahaha < 1222120152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl ;) < 1222120158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes really < 1222120163 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahaha! you repeated the same joke! < 1222120166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen as in on ocilocope < 1222120169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1222120172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The e-mail address you entered (ais523(524\)(525)x)@bham.ac.uk) didn't pass our syntax checking for a legal email address. A legal address must contain exactly one '@', and at least one '.' after the @, and may not contain any commas or spaces. It must also not contain any of these special characters: \ ( ) & < > , ; : " [ ], or any whitespace. < 1222120172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my, your comedy is truly the highest quality in the world < 1222120191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what website? < 1222120199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and send an email complaining < 1222120201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the bug < 1222120204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugzilla.mozilla.org < 1222120218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, file a bug against bugzilla (use your normal email for now) < 1222120219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1222120220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1222120236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this will be fun :) < 1222120243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I'm just going to utterly fail to be able to file the bug due to the infinite regress involved < 1222120259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, revert to normal email for now? < 1222120264 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'normal email' < 1222120266 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his email address is: < 1222120272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523(524\)(525)x)@bham.ac.uk < 1222120274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using another would be dishonest < 1222120278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222120287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no clearly that email address is contrived < 1222120295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to move to another one after a year or so anyway < 1222120296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what?! you mean that one is dishonest? < 1222120301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just contrived < 1222120303 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected more from you, ais523... < 1222120309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comments are pretty accurate for a programmer like me, after all < 1222120321 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I wonder what email ais523 will switch to... < 1222120325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd never use a hosted solution < 1222120327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm going to file bugs for all websites I use, from now on I will use nested comments when I register < 1222120331 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll probably have to set up postfix on rutian < 1222120341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what domain... < 1222120343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it faill I will register with comment free email and file a bug < 1222120344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222120344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably eso-std.org < 1222120355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you never know, I have working email on Normish < 1222120356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, qmail! < 1222120358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1222120365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now THAT is playing with fire... < 1222120375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I prefer netqmail) < 1222120385 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how does a djb know what a license is? < 1222120397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well public domain works < 1222120401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is good software < 1222120405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if you would care anyway < 1222120417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: until recently it wasn't licensed like that < 1222120425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, very true < 1222120427 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb's position on licenses is fundamentally flawed and i'm not risking myself legally like that < 1222120435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and thus until recently I used postfix < 1222120438 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus on principle i don't want to support software licensed like that < 1222120449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I had tried qmail out and noted how much better it was < 1222120453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: so this is why you exclusively use programs licenced under GPL3, right? < 1222120461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222120470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i use things licensed with licenses that aren't completely broken < 1222120476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the gpl3, but i wouldn't argue it is completely broken < 1222120494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: for ages CLC-INTERCAL's licence agreement was given in source form and had to be compiled in order for you to read it < 1222120506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is brilliant < 1222120506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222120509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably legally invalid < 1222120511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222120515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's just BSD3 anyway < 1222120527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some trivial variant of it < 1222120532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could compile it in your head < 1222120559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I fear it may have been written in CLC-INTERCAL < 1222120563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is written in itself < 1222120574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um isn't it in perl? < 1222120577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they supply a pre-compiled version in ICBM so you can get started < 1222120577 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1222120582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ICBM interpreter is written in Perl < 1222120584 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its written in itself, < 1222120590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using its perl ffi < 1222120591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1222120593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1222120598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL is written in CLC-INTERCAL, and compiles to bytecode < 1222120607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl programs are to interpret the resulting bytecode. < 1222120607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, byte code of what? < 1222120611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the program you compiled < 1222120615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, argh < 1222120622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of the compiler, for that matter < 1222120636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, writing an intercal compiler in intercal is pretty hard I bet < 1222120642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much harder than in C < 1222120646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way way harder < 1222120650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a different set of syntax for the compilation than for the main programming < 1222120656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler's nothing but CREATE statements < 1222120661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh, that's cheating ;P < 1222120666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bytecode has lots of features, like COME FROM, that make it easy to compile into < 1222120669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICBM is the compiler? < 1222120674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ICBM is the bytecode < 1222120804 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-173-245-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222120836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1222121148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the compiler then? < 1222121164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the byte code interpreter? < 1222121166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various compilers < 1222121173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are written in IACC < 1222121180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IACC? < 1222121185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the compilers itself compiles IACC into ICBM < 1222121195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a Perl program interprets the ICBM < 1222121203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is *worse* than C-INTERCAL < 1222121207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :/ < 1222121209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it wasn't! < 1222121223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the IACC compiler is written in IACC and compiles IACC to ICBM. < 1222121237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other compilers compile CLC-INTERCAL, and other related languages, to ICBM, and are written in IACC. < 1222121239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bootstrapping it must have been a hell < 1222121246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ICBM interpreter is written in Perl. < 1222121256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's what I think too, probably < 1222121279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they should write an ICBM -> C compiler in IACC :D < 1222121283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1222121289 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.68.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222121289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however compiling iacc.iacc into iacc.io (where io is the extension for ICBM) probably isn't ridiculously difficult by hand as it's all CREATE statements < 1222121306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... let me type that again so tusho can see it < 1222121309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the IACC compiler is written in IACC and compiles IACC to ICBM. < 1222121315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other compilers compile CLC-INTERCAL, and other related languages, to ICBM, and are written in IACC. < 1222121318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ICBM interpreter is written in Perl. < 1222121330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not the best time. Sorry. < 1222121354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the odds are that anyone but them and Claudio Calvelli really have the faintest idea of how CLC-INTERCAL works internally
< 1222121377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does anyone but you understand the internals of ick? < 1222121381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't < 1222121381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1222121387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all I didn't even write some of them! < 1222121391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah true < 1222121401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Joris keeps sending patches to various parts of it, usually the optimiser < 1222121414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did Claudio Calvelli alone write CLC? < 1222121418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1222121428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was clc released < 1222121431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no patches? < 1222121434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted bug reports now and again < 1222121439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't come with patches < 1222121458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one came with a patch described in English, but Claudio had to translate it to Perl, so that doesn't count < 1222121490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you understand the internals of clc? < 1222121495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to any degree at all < 1222121497 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1222121504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, to some extent < 1222121510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as well as Claudio does, though < 1222121525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the opposite is true for ick I guess? < 1222121527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to port it to DOS once but gave up < 1222121532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he knows it somewhat) < 1222121536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1222121540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how much Claudio knows about C-INTERCAL's internals < 1222121544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222121554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess he knows a bit, but am not sure as to the extent < 1222121576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had to correct him on the details of CLC-INTERCAL's C-INTERCAL emulation mode from time to time, so not the details < 1222121598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does ick offer clc-emulation? < 1222121604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes to some extent < 1222121611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the features are just impossible to emulate in a compiled language < 1222121615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others I never got round to writing < 1222121624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the emulation is buggy < 1222121625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222121637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it tries < 1222121641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I the emulation is buggy the other way too? < 1222121647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly < 1222121657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again CLC-INTERCAL doesn't support some of C-INTERCAL's newest features < 1222121679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they use different syntax by default, but each can emulate the other's syntax more or less perfectly < 1222121687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have an idea for how to handle memory leaks in the compiler itself. Not sure how esoteric it would be < 1222121696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pretty strange" for ick though < 1222121707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't matter, any idea no matter how sane is esoteric when applied to the C-INTERCAL source < 1222121714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to how you have to contort it to make it fit < 1222121715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Boehm-GC < 1222121717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222121727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't handling memory leaks! < 1222121731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just pretending they don't exist < 1222121732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't? < 1222121736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I don't think it would help < 1222121736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1222121740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1222121744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory leaks aren't actually harmful < 1222121756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as C-INTERCAL allocates all the memory, then deallocates it all with basically no allocations involved < 1222121759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the way it works < 1222121772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly that's why fixing them's a low priority < 1222121786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the optimiser is definitely free from leaks as that's generated code, i hope < 1222121790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ i / I / < 1222121808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge have no memory leaks or fd leaks. Some fingerprints do leave still allocated (and reachable data) and FILE and SOCK offers the ability to leave open fds around < 1222121829 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleah < 1222121835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this you can use to debug *befunge scripts* in valgrind < 1222121839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found that useful < 1222121848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a fd leak in fungot some time ago for example < 1222121849 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that would just add to the pipe. < 1222121850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just write your own befungegrind < 1222121859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh very hard < 1222121863 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1222121870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is so self modifying < 1222121875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter, if INTERCAL had a memory-allocation statement, simply NEXTING FROM it would let you track all the allocations and deallocations < 1222121888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IFFI doesn't have NEXT FROM gerund, though < 1222121888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the only issues are FILE and SOCK fingerprints basically < 1222121891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should add that < 1222121893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NEXT FROM is post-come-from? < 1222121899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no < 1222121904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i mean < 1222121905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's COME FROM but saves a return address < 1222121907 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222121909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1222121910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleah < 1222121914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the thing it comes from < 1222121923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1222121927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can next from it, change things, then drop back to exactly where in the code you were < 1222121939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I guess you could add it to IFFI, it is not like anyone else realistically even can implement it ;P < 1222121950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be so hard on yourself < 1222121952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very very specific to ick and patched cfunge < 1222121956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't exactly all that difficult < 1222121971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? Well I guess CLC could implement it < 1222121973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should find another C-compatible Funge-98 interp and patch that too to demonstrate < 1222121988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rc/funge is always threaded iirc < 1222122006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from that there aren't any good ones iirc < 1222122016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll just patch a bad one then < 1222122017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ccbi would work < 1222122023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I don't know D, though < 1222122027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to learn it first < 1222122029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you wouldn't have to < 1222122033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C <-> D interface hm < 1222122034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just copypaste his fingerprints and interface to c < 1222122038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's simple < 1222122040 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use extern < 1222122042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you have to insert something around the main loop < 1222122044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and ccbi also always concurrent < 1222122048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but that wouldn't be too hard < 1222122048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wouldn't work < 1222122055 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could figure it out by trial & error and reading what he's got < 1222122058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also just disabling t would likely be fine < 1222122062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D isn't taht weird < 1222122063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could alter the code to make it reflect < 1222122064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1222122077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as there's only one thread it doesn't matter that the interp is threaded < 1222122090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep, I believe ccbi use a table of function pointers < 1222122098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so simply removing the t entry should should do it < 1222122110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ask Deewiant to be sure < 1222122141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders concurrent efunge. It would be way way more fun if it didn't have to be synced
< 1222122164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it possible to implement MVRS but not t i or o= < 1222122166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222122186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he is sleeping < 1222122298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, efunge may be not be deathstation 9000 but I'll try to make it deathstation[9|0] at least ;P < 1222122324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is 0 a list, or is that unusual head-tail syntax? < 1222122349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's 9 followed by an infinite number of 0s, that's easy to express in Prolog (although it sends the interp into an infinite loop if you try) < 1222122358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also easy to express in Haskell where it actually works < 1222122358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you would normally write [9, 0] there for the list, but you can construct lists like that yes < 1222122360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of compex < 1222122368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Prolog it would be [9|[0]] < 1222122378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I believe those would do the same in erlang < 1222122378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the thing after the | is a list itself < 1222122380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1222122397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1222122400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> [9|0]. < 1222122400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9|0] < 1222122400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> [9|[0]]. < 1222122400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9,0] < 1222122406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wrong < 1222122408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1222122421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets make it deathstation{9, 0} ;) < 1222122426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better < 1222122497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets make it deathstation<<9:4/unsigned-big, 0>>. < 1222122497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;) < 1222122503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1222122515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you laughing at now? < 1222122526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6> <<9:4/unsigned-big, 0>>. < 1222122526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<144,0:4>> < 1222122532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bitstring < 1222122535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a binary < 1222122542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a binary must be whole bytes < 1222122553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a bitstring can be sub-byte size < 1222122586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think it 9 encoded in a nibble as unsigned big endian followed by 0 < 1222122601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that doesn't work < 1222122613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the bit syntax is sometimes *too* powerful < 1222122626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 4 may be bytes or bits not sure < 1222122649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bits < 1222122676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1222122677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7> <<9:5/unsigned-big, 2:3/signed-little>>. < 1222122677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<"J">> < 1222122688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is 74 < 1222122688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no it doesn't make sense) < 1222122692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222122694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that helps < 1222122707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is slightly worried that they could calculate that in their head
< 1222122715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hahaha < 1222122721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did? < 1222122722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1222122725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A is 65 < 1222122729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so @ is 64 < 1222122731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and J is 74 < 1222122733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1222122740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember those details < 1222122745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what has @ got to do with it? < 1222122750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ comes before A < 1222122756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1222122784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so @ + (position of letter in alphabet) = (ASCII code for that capital letter) < 1222122800 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfdhg < 1222122816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell me if you think this makes sense: 15> <<9:5, -2:3>>. < 1222122816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<"N">> < 1222122836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first is 5 bits the next is 3 bits < 1222122837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fhg < 1222122843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, N is 78 < 1222122856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 00101110 < 1222122861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do TURKEY BOMB in it < 1222122867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost ;) < 1222122877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2 in 3 bits is 110 so that makes sense < 1222122892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 in 5 bits is 01001 which makes less sense < 1222122916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not entirely sure where that N comes from < 1222122933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would you get it to? < 1222122954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222122954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01001110? < 1222122960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I set the wrong bit < 1222122964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add them after each other < 1222122964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1222122966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 01001110='N' < 1222122966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17> 2#01001110. < 1222122966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78 < 1222122970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's right < 1222122971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1222122977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply screwed up translating 'N' into binary < 1222122981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1222122993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a syntax for extracting individual bits too? < 1222122998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, write mingle, now! < 1222123001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure I:1 < 1222123010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me show you < 1222123053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1222123061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> < 1222123064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy < 1222123068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and way more readable than tusho's < 1222123078 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blearearerh. < 1222123090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I've got the syntax right < 1222123095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be something like that even if I haven't < 1222123097 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1222123143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222123162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222123162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> MyBin = <<9:5/unsigned-big, -2:3/unsigned>>. < 1222123163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<"N">> < 1222123170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> <> = MyBin. < 1222123170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<"N">> < 1222123176 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222123176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> {FirstBit, Tail}. < 1222123176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{0,<<78:7>>} < 1222123176 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222123181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1222123184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1> MyBin = <<9:5/unsigned-big, -2:3/unsigned>>. < 1222123184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <<"N">> < 1222123184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2> <> = MyBin. < 1222123184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <<"N">> < 1222123184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3> {FirstBit, Tail}. < 1222123185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0,<<78:7>>} < 1222123185 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1222123202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to write a function that interated over it < 1222123204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec < 1222123218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urk < 1222123220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <> < 1222123222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are you trying to do now, select? < 1222123224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5> <>. < 1222123224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception error: bad argument < 1222123231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :0 doesn't work < 1222123244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also lower case = atom < 1222123244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the first bit called then? < 1222123254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upper case = Variable < 1222123263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same case syntax as Prolog I see < 1222123264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um that defines how many bits that field have < 1222123271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the index of the bit < 1222123278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, how do you extract one bit then? < 1222123299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you could so A:1, B:1, C:1 and so on, or you could do a tail recursive loop of some sort < 1222123313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do a tail recursive loop < 1222123317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracting head bit every time < 1222123326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe two head bits < 1222123332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then adding each to an accumulator < 1222123338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are trying to separate them < 1222123345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are building you want the reverse < 1222123358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in both cases you want a tail recursive loop < 1222123376 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha, my version is more readable then < 1222123396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you want to join them? one bit from each? < 1222123405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he wants to mingle. < 1222123426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I don't remember what that meant < 1222123433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alternate bits in the two numbers < 1222123440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1222123470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ mingle RSTUVWXYZ1234567 = RASB(etc) < 1222123531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1222123536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the arguments the wrong way round < 1222123542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1222123543 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1222123549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARBSCT and so on < 1222123654 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222123682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you give me two numbers to test on and the result < 1222123685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit ones please < 1222123703 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222123732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65535 $ 0 = 2863311530 < 1222123739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice simple one to start off with < 1222123749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, input is 16 bits and output 32? < 1222123754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in INTERCAL < 1222123761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although doing it with more bits gives the same answer < 1222123770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7> mingle:mingle(65535, 0). < 1222123770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2863311530 < 1222123793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://rafb.net/p/WZOfED60.html < 1222123795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64280 $ 64280 is 4294901760 IIRC < 1222123814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok there may be a bug then: < 1222123820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait typoed < 1222123826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that definition looks right < 1222123828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1222123830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9> mingle:mingle(64280, 64280). < 1222123830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62977023 < 1222123832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very Prolog-like < 1222123832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure? < 1222123846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that answer is far too low to be correct < 1222123853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some bug then < 1222123863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, need to sleep though soon < 1222123910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe it's treating the numbers as signed or something like that and getting confused? < 1222123912 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222123954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what endian? < 1222123963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, default is big endian in erlang binaries < 1222123970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it matters but... < 1222123992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could matter if it isn't being abstracted away < 1222124008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 0x1234 $ 0x4321 < 1222124011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give the result in hex, please < 1222124018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16#1234 < 1222124021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1222124023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222124095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14> io:format("~.16B~n", [mingle:mingle(16#1234, 16#4321)]). < 1222124095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48B07084 < 1222124119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I get different results if I put /native in the mingle/2 (the wrapper function) < 1222124128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that probably is the problem < 1222124135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me reinstall C-INTERCAL to check what the answer should be < 1222124137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16> io:format("~.16B~n", [mingle:mingle(16#1234, 16#4321)]). < 1222124137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B0488470 < 1222124140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with native < 1222124140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I uninstalled it to test the build process < 1222124235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however maybe it should in fact be /little not /native, don't have any big endian system to check on < 1222124247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is /little < 1222124283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the actual answer is 0x120d0e21 according to C-INTERCAL < 1222124294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1222124298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense, it fits in with what I know about mingling < 1222124309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what may the issue be then? < 1222124324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19> io:format("~.2B~n", [mingle:mingle(16#1234, 16#4321)]). < 1222124324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10110000010010001000010001110000 < 1222124335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, give me bit pattern for icks result < 1222124365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10010000011010000111000100001 < 1222124376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes no sensed < 1222124379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sense* < 1222124402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hey I get that using /big < 1222124412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1222124416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10010000011010000111000100001 < 1222124422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22> io:format("~.2B~n", [mingle:mingle(16#1234, 16#4321)]). < 1222124422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1001000101100000111000010000100 < 1222124425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is big < 1222124427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1222124427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, #esoteric blocks colours, doesn't it? < 1222124433 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1222124434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222124443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is with every other bit in bold < 1222124480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes right, doesn't explain the result I got < 1222124494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bold bits spell out 4321, the unbold bits spell out 1234 < 1222124497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine < 1222124661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't see the bold, ais523 < 1222124670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: AnMaster can, I sent it to him in /msg < 1222124704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster's result is right when written backwards in middle-endian < 1222124708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really make sense at all < 1222124939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, moving back here < 1222124953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the problem is that the bits come out in the wrong order, backwards to be precise < 1222124959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222124965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just get the solution with bits backwards, then reverse the bits pairwise < 1222124968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222124971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully backwards? < 1222124977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pairwise backwards < 1222124977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh pairwise < 1222124982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first pair, then the second, then so on < 1222124991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a way to avoid doing it in pairs I wonder? < 1222124992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily generate pairs the other way round to make it truly backwards < 1222124996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222124997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just swap the arguments for that matter < 1222125003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would be more effective < 1222125015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think you mean "efficient" not "effective" < 1222125023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists:reverse() wonder if there is a reverse for binaries too? < 1222125027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my solution was effective (i.e. it worked) just not efficient (i.e. it wasn't fast) < 1222125040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bit-reversal is one of INTERCAL's strong points, most languages aren't nearly as good at it < 1222125049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is decent, though, once you know the tricks < 1222125058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1222125062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder... < 1222125063 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this operator < 1222125069 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x<<1)~x < 1222125089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1010 = 1011 < 1222125090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: for each 1, it looks to see if there's a 1 to its left < 1222125092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returns the result < 1222125101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeragh < 1222125105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, that is great < 1222125108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any practical applications? < 1222125110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you get the set of digits to the left of 1s < 1222125125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, arithmetic's all about this sort of thing in practice < 1222125130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ~ now again? bitwise not? < 1222125133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: select < 1222125134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1222125136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222125138 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ais523 < 1222125140 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the C meaning < 1222125148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: bitwise not only takes one argument, though < 1222125149 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1222125151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X bsl 1) bnot X < 1222125153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i mean < 1222125154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1222125156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was INTERCAL select because you gave it two arguments < 1222125160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222125163 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1111 ~ 0000 = 1111 < 1222125168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that confused me too < 1222125169 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1111 ~ 1010 = 0101 < 1222125173 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the operator i'm talking about < 1222125180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what happens when the first arg isn't 1111? < 1222125182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last argument is a pattern: for every 1, that bit is NOT'd in the left argument < 1222125184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise xor? < 1222125187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise xnor < 1222125191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the complement of xor < 1222125192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ARGH < 1222125194 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every 1 in the second argument, the bit at the same position is NOT'd in the left argument < 1222125196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what tusho's trying to describe < 1222125202 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my dyadic ~ < 1222125202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222125210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1222125219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just bitwise XOR that tusho's described < 1222125222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is called ^ in C < 1222125226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222125226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a perfectly good name already < 1222125227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222125227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1222125228 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222125231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1222125236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the op is (x<<1)^x < 1222125238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X bsl 1) bxor X < 1222125239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222125243 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does THAT do, apart from what it says < 1222125244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang < 1222125245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (x << 1)^x is INTERCAL xor < 1222125245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, anything useful < 1222125251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it? bahhahaha < 1222125255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that INTERCAL xor does a rotate not a select < 1222125260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/select/shift/ < 1222125268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the top bit of x << 1 gets copied to the bottom bit < 1222125275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a bitshift with carry < 1222125287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does have uses, the implementation of greater-than for instance < 1222125289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is an x86 instruction for it iirc < 1222125295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of the great triumphs of INTERCAL-72 < 1222125299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROT or something like that < 1222125301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, lots of machines have rotate instructions < 1222125307 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is this < 1222125315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is what? < 1222125322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no mainstream high level languages seem to offer it < 1222125322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222125325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making up a silly thing < 1222125326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1222125328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x>>(x<<1) < 1222125348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: destroys the sign bit and copies it from the bit above it, if signed < 1222125354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/above/below/ < 1222125361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is great < 1222125368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, moves? < 1222125371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if unsigned it's boring, it's just x & ((1 << (bits-1))-1) < 1222125385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1222125391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said copy < 1222125394 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's returning 0 for me, always < 1222125399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't it move the whole number one step? < 1222125403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: whoops, I misread it < 1222125408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I calculated (x<<1)>>1 < 1222125423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you wrote always returns 0 with a positive argument < 1222125428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is undefined with a negative argument < 1222125431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just stupid < 1222125440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, undefined with negative? how so? < 1222125449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shift a negative amount < 1222125458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the overflow if the argument happens to be INT_MIN < 1222125543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222125552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would shift the other way obviously < 1222125569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that defined in C/ < 1222125573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nop < 1222125580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1222125802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I was wrong, for lists access at head is more effective < 1222125816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for binaries reading at head and writing at tail is most efficient < 1222125849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/effective/efficient/ < 1222125862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh yes < 1222125875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effektivt in Swedish < 1222125887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is closer to the former < 1222125893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the confusion < 1222126046 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222126382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think the result was elegant btw? < 1222126387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I do < 1222126390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go home now < 1222126392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"9" < 1222126486 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta ask him about that quit message < 1222126496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number 9 has been bugging me for weeks < 1222126506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be in my head every time i close my eyes < 1222126512 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which -> < 1222126787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1222126795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well)