00:04:38 AND THEN! They saw Jorge wanting to be hardcore but his mom would't let him. Fact: hardcores bite people and Jorge had rabies. I'm also a rapper. In the flesh. (Flesh is tasty.) Soon, however, he became bored of this rampant cannibalism. He threw down his piece of man-thigh, and went to get a real job. Or so he hoped. But no, rather than what was expected... there was a centipede! Hundreds of feet long, it crawled on its belly before exploding violently. Thi 00:06:05 wat 00:06:10 Slereah: storygen 00:06:36 Slereah: http://91.105.85.60:4567/ 00:09:33 tusho: it got cut off after "violently. Thi" 00:09:49 is caused an international incident between the cat and your anus. Then, Elliott realized that moar people In the Midnight Hour of the something which then one mored. 00:21:37 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:21:51 -!- Corun has joined. 00:25:18 -!- megatron has quit ("- nbs-irc 2.37 - www.nbs-irc.net -"). 00:25:39 -!- moozilla has joined. 00:34:26 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 00:41:21 -!- Slereah has quit. 01:00:47 transformed into an acoustic guitar and got Ubuntu Linux But didn't understand it when he talked about the rabbit about his mom when not all that suddenly, he farted and the expelled gas exploded immediately afterwards, killing you. That is to say, not. But then, Then he pooped out a kitten. Ohh, those fuckign delicious kittens Mr. Clockhead decided to kill Mr. Blockhead. After quenching his bloodthirst, something truly special happened. Jibbedybob so the Lo 01:00:57 ead. After quenching his bloodthirst, something truly special happened. Jibbedybob so the Loch Ness Monster decided to rape everyone. But Jibbedybob reveal himself to the man - the hot, sweaty man - SUDDENLY - all the sex was used up. So Jibbedybob bought some more at a convenience store. THE END 01:01:58 -!- tusho has quit. 01:06:40 now there's that Jibbedybob again 01:06:56 what is he up to? 01:15:10 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 01:24:50 "Lisp programmer is an oxymoron. Once you learn lisp you never write any code every again, you move into academia and spend the rest of your life trying to hoodwink other people into thinking lisp isn't a pile of shit." 01:46:10 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:06:06 Any extreneous Sgeos are evil 02:06:15 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:06:52 ah but which is the extreneous [sic] one? 02:07:34 * Sgeo glares at his evil underscore-bearing counterpart 02:09:00 http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;528456667 02:12:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 02:16:42 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:16:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:04:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:32:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | even logspace.. 04:16:09 it would be cool if the logs could be stored in log space 04:58:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:03:32 bsmntbombdood: good one 05:39:37 oklobol lols in pain 06:02:20 lament: invent the compression algorithm 06:04:18 sure 06:04:42 keep only the last log(n) of n lines of logs. Throw out the rest; nobody reads logs that old, anyway. 06:10:24 I do upon rare occasion. 06:35:03 pretty clever 06:36:46 except not 06:38:13 each log file is 60k, 4 years of logs, means 89702400 characters 06:38:37 which means...we have a 18 character log 06:38:42 not very useful 06:47:44 i disagree. "not very useful" is all you need to know about esoteric languages 06:48:04 except i kinda messed my own joke up by saying that. 07:02:27 bsmntbombdood: we need to pick an appropriate base, of course. 07:03:26 like 1.00001 or something 07:03:46 I vote base 1. 07:11:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:12:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:13:34 -!- olsner has joined. 07:32:26 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:25 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:06:08 -!- oklobol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:06:12 -!- oklobol has joined. 08:06:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:13:58 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 08:40:25 -!- oklobol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 08:54:51 -!- oklobol has joined. 09:04:51 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:08:43 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:19:27 last xkcd.... got no hover text... 09:19:32 * AnMaster watches world fall apart 09:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | like a modulo?. 10:07:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Jesus loves you"). 10:10:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 10:16:17 optbot: What's like a modulo? 10:16:18 fizzie: I've decided type-level church numerals are far more fun. 10:16:47 optbot: That sounds sufficiently esoteric, yes. 10:16:48 fizzie: so that they can be evaluated, in sequence 11:04:04 is O(n^2) or O(n log n) worst? 11:05:48 n^2 is obviously worse than n log n. 11:05:53 Since n is worse than log n. 11:05:59 right 11:06:11 Asymptotically speaking, anyway. 11:08:41 hm now what is the correct notation for "average" and "worst" cases 11:08:51 it is something else than O really isn't it iirc? 11:10:36 hm no, I guess I remembered wrong 11:16:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Jesus loves you"). 11:18:16 hm... if you needed a good sorting algorithm, good worst case and good average case, what one would you select? 11:36:56 qsort(3) 11:37:14 or whatever your standard library offers 11:37:39 well true, but qsort() is quicksort isn't it? 11:37:49 why would it be 11:38:05 it has a crap name, there's no reason why it has to be :-P 11:38:05 misleading name then I guess 11:38:14 most likely it's introsort 11:38:48 probably 11:38:50 at least that's std::sort in the SGI C++ standard library, and the standard sorter in tango (after I filed a bug about it :-P) 11:39:02 however mergesort could take advantage of multi-core CPUs 11:39:13 Deewiant, what was the standard sorter before? 11:39:16 in tango 11:39:19 quicksort 11:39:39 median-of-3 to be exact 11:40:30 anyway what about mergesort? It would be easy to take advantage of multiple cpus, if you have two, then at the first split in half let each cpu do half of the work 11:41:13 quicksort can be parallelized as easily as mergesort 11:41:38 well, maybe not quite as easily, but easily anyway 11:46:04 but in any case, I'd leave that to the stdlib 11:46:23 and unless you're sorting something really big it doesn't matter anyway :-P 11:50:00 Deewiant, or if you want a stable sort 11:50:02 not that I do 11:51:19 in that case as well I'd leave it to the stdlib :-P 11:51:26 Deewiant, if there is one 11:51:36 which may not always be the case 11:51:52 -!- Corun has joined. 11:51:55 unfortunately some stdlibs are crap, yes 11:52:02 Deewiant, well that too 11:52:24 but I was thinking about stand-alone C 11:52:27 for kernels and such 11:52:50 freestanding I believe the official name is 11:53:49 (how do you know I'm not planning a cfunge-OS ;) 11:59:32 -!- jix has joined. 12:24:11 -!- tusho has joined. 12:34:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:41:20 AnMaster: oh no 12:41:30 oerjan, ? 12:41:36 it must be a side effect of the earth being destroyed 12:41:42 what is? 12:41:53 AnMaster: IT! 12:41:53 the lack of hovertext 12:42:03 hah 12:42:18 yeah either case it is pretty odd 12:42:24 in either* 12:42:32 uh 12:42:33 it has it now 12:42:44 another one didnd't have it at one point but then it got added in after people noticed 12:42:50 tusho, didn't have it this morning 12:43:00 AnMaster: that happens occasionally 12:43:18 tusho is lying 12:43:24 oerjan: what? 12:43:26 or i have a browser error 12:43:31 i am not lying 12:43:35 here, let's view source: 12:43:48 Further Boomerang Difficulties
12:43:49 i am lying. 12:43:52 i just checked xkcd, there is no hovertext 12:43:56 oerjan: 12:43:57 Further Boomerang Difficulties
12:45:35 Further Boomerang Difficulties 12:45:45 is what i see 12:45:49 oerjan: cache 12:46:10 except i didn't visit xkcd earlier 12:46:46 here: 12:47:31 bah! 12:47:36 a reload fixed it 12:47:44 sigh 12:48:18 that was weird, especially if AnMaster sees it too 12:48:37 maybe _JSUT_ added 12:48:39 *just 12:49:07 within 15 minutes? wow 12:49:14 oerjan, there is hovertext there now 12:49:14 -!- tusho has quit. 12:49:27 wasn't when I mentioned the issue though 12:55:14 -!- tusho has joined. 12:55:25 itunes 8 looks neat-o 13:04:22 bah how disappointing 13:04:56 google doesn't do unit conversion with kalpas 13:07:40 kalpas? 13:08:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(time_unit) 13:09:01 mind you i looked it up afterward. i didn't know there were conflicting definitions... 13:13:34 -!- Hiato has joined. 13:16:31 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:26:52 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 13:39:25 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:20:56 heh, anyone who ever comments on a piece of FUD targeting apple to *factually correct them*, even if they don't use apple products, is immediately called an apple fanboy 14:21:01 (on reddit) 14:21:03 stupid reddit 14:21:08 maybe i'll start blocking the comments 14:31:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:36:29 -!- oklobol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | exactly! omg we're like soulmates rofl!!! asl?. 15:46:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:46:56 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:48:35 optbot: I like your topic. 15:48:36 fizzie: just... minute enough to... draw a circlish thing? 15:50:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:50:57 hi tusho, AnMaster 15:51:03 hi ais523! 15:51:16 yay, I even get an exclamation mark this time 15:51:31 ais523, hi 15:51:34 * ais523 has spent most of today trying to port C-INTERCAL to autotools 15:51:46 I have it building reliably now, but there are some things I want to change 15:51:46 automake you mean? 15:51:50 AnMaster: that's it 15:51:55 well what things? 15:51:58 maybe even libtool while I'm at it 15:52:02 I gave up on ick + automake 15:52:14 mostly due to split oil output 15:52:21 AnMaster: I don't like the way automake scatters all the temporary files in the root directory of the distribution 15:52:22 ais523: why on earth would you want to use autotools 15:52:23 :| 15:52:33 ais523, ah well I do out of tree builds always 15:52:33 and I handled the split oil output by writing it all as one rule by hand 15:52:44 ais523, and you can move some stuff into subdirs 15:52:48 let me find the command 15:53:01 AnMaster: that's not the problem, the problem is that some of the temporaries are distributed with the tarball 15:53:06 AC_CONFIG_AUX_DIR([utils]) 15:53:16 for config.guess config.sub and so on 15:53:20 AnMaster: ah, I knew about that one, hadn't used it yet but was planning to 15:53:21 into a directory called utils 15:53:34 also C-INTERCAL doesn't need config.sub at the moment, although I've been modifying it for gcc-bf 15:53:49 what exactly does config.sub do btw 15:53:52 I never checked 15:54:10 AnMaster: translates a short name like "i386" into a long name like "i386-pc-linux-gnu" 15:54:24 also checks that the name is one that's recognised by some GNU software 15:54:28 and of course bf isn't 15:54:32 ais523, ah hm.... that file will be replaced by regeneration commands 15:54:35 so I need to add it 15:54:38 ais523: http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#ICAL 15:54:44 ah yes Deewiant 15:54:47 Deewiant: that name sounds promising... 15:55:06 just some intercal-esque stuff 15:55:08 ais523, well is it correct, as in do like in intercal? 15:55:18 AnMaster: yes, but they took only the saner of the commands there 15:55:19 blergh at grammar there 15:55:24 he 15:55:25 not they 15:55:33 Mike Riley 15:55:42 AnMaster: singular they is correct. 15:55:47 apart from "0R is not an error and will just continue without resuming", that is an error in ordinary INTERCAL 15:56:02 and singular they is of disputed gramaticalness but I use it anyway 15:56:05 ais523, something like: ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS = -I macros --install 15:56:08 in the top Makefile.am 15:56:13 to put macros into a subdir 15:56:26 rather than at the end of aclocal.m4 15:56:29 AnMaster: it's not that stuff I'm worried about, it's half-built parsers like parser.c and parser.h 15:56:41 I have it confined to ick-0-29/temp in the old build system 15:56:46 however, I have an insane solution 15:56:50 ais523: yesterday me and Deewiant were poking fun at mikeriley's fingerprints which are clones of existing ones sans all the useful parts, and incredible ambiguiuty ("format string is printf style") so I made my first fingerprint: http://tusho.net/mkry/ 15:57:01 ais523, you mean that there are temporary files? 15:57:11 what about them? I assume darcs got some ignore function? 15:57:11 AnMaster: it's more like /var/cache 15:57:18 um what? 15:57:21 and the issue is that they're supposed to be distributed 15:57:33 in case the person at the other end doesn't have lex, or doesn't have yacc or equivalents 15:57:48 tusho: the sillier thing about the clones is that the originals are his as well :-P 15:57:51 both the old and the new build system handles that fine, I just don't like where the new build system puts them 15:57:53 Deewiant: :D 15:58:08 tusho: that fingerprint reminds me of ESME 15:58:10 Deewiant: soon I shall write MIKR! 15:58:26 ais523: the actual spec is that C pushes 3 to 15 (random) ','s 15:58:29 D the same but with '.' 15:58:38 and E the same but with randomly alternating 'e' and 'h' 15:58:38 tusho: but why? 15:58:45 ais523, hm... 15:58:45 ais523: eheheheheheheehhe,,,,,not sure....... 15:58:50 most fingerprints actually have some sort of purpose... 15:58:52 the clue is in the name :-) 15:58:55 ais523, it would put them in build tree I assume? 15:59:06 ais523, which seems sane to me 15:59:06 AnMaster: yes, the problem is it puts them in the root of the build tree 15:59:11 in the build tree is sane 15:59:15 um 15:59:18 in root isn't, because they get distributed with the package 15:59:19 that's strange 15:59:35 ais523, I guess you don't use recursive make (and yes I prefer non-recursive too) 15:59:36 so my insane solution is to put Makefile.am in a subdirectory of its own 15:59:53 AnMaster: I prefer non-recursive, and recursive make doesn't even really make sense with C-INTERCAL 16:00:05 because most of the targets share most of the object files 16:00:14 ais523, I assume you do out of tree build the same way as "normal" automake-using projects do? 16:00:16 that is: 16:00:16 so there's nothing to recurse over 16:00:26 AnMaster: configure out of tree and it builds out of tre 16:00:28 s/$/e/ 16:00:33 ~/foo/build $ ../configure 16:00:33 which is just how it normally works 16:00:56 or even put the build dir elsewhere 16:01:19 I have the build dir alongside the source dir for testing 16:01:25 so it's ../newbuild/configure 16:01:53 where newbuild in my filesystem = ick-0-29 in everyone else's 16:02:11 also I changed the filenames away from DOSish to some extent, so they don't look DOSish any more 16:02:25 ais523: but it still works on DOS, right? 16:02:27 some of them are even not 8.3, but they truncate to 8.3 in a way that gives unique answers 16:02:34 tusho: haven't tested, if it doesn't I'll change it until it does 16:03:37 some of them are even not 8.3, but they truncate to 8.3 in a way that gives unique answers <--- heheh, such an intercal-ish thing to do :D 16:04:15 ais523, how did you handle the multiple oil output files? 16:04:19 that was what I got stuck on 16:04:33 AnMaster: encapsulated them all in one target that produces a .a as its output 16:04:38 marked noinst, so it's only used during the build 16:04:45 and I wrote that target by hand 16:04:48 ah ok 16:04:51 good idea 16:05:24 ais523, however will this work with LLVM I wonder. I couldn't get ick to work properly with llvm if the compiler itself was compiled with llvm 16:05:38 AnMaster: do you know how to get autotools to use the host CC for some compilation and the target CC for others when cross-compiling 16:05:41 the issue was somehow that the installed libick.a and such were broken 16:06:00 both the old and new build systems almost work when cross-compiling, except that it compiles oil.y for the target not the host and thus can't generate the oil output files 16:06:09 ais523, hm, haven't really needed to compile stuff that is run during build time 16:06:29 but I'm quite sure it is possible 16:06:32 no, apparently neither have they 16:06:36 I know it's possible because gcc does it 16:06:40 yes 16:06:48 but gcc even use it's own version of libtool iirc 16:07:08 well I'm not using libtool yet, but I may do at some point, it makes sense for libick.a to really be libick.so 16:07:20 ais523, well yes and no 16:07:32 there could be issues with .so 16:07:40 and yes, I know there are issues with .so 16:07:43 I even know what some of them are 16:08:03 basically: 1) if installed to prefix, the library need to be found at runtime 16:08:13 2) the nasty bit is where symbols bind 16:08:32 1) is pretty nasty, ldd is unlikely to know about where to look for INTERCAL symbols 16:08:49 if a symbol name is used in several *.so 16:09:00 and it is globally visible 16:09:04 and I can't just use my amazing findandfopen function (designed to make sure that there is a skeleton in the closet no matter how badly the user tries to screw up the installation) 16:09:21 AnMaster: well all the symbol names are mangled with ick_ in C-INTERCAL already 16:09:21 any call from inside *any* of those .so that define it will refer to a single one of the functions 16:09:23 instead of the local one 16:09:38 I used nm to check what they all were 16:09:42 for the FFI to C 16:09:46 ais523, also that overhead of looking up symbols in the global symbol table.... well 16:09:48 so I didn't impinge on user namespace 16:09:59 you can get around that somewhat with GNU LD 16:10:10 but that is non-portable 16:10:10 AnMaster: I don't particularly worry about the overhead given how ridiculously slow INTERCAL programs are likely to be anyway 16:11:05 I'm most worried about ABI changes 16:11:43 yes that too 16:11:46 that's what landed Windows into a whole lot of trouble with its DLLs, to be precise their installers tended to bundle the DLL with the program and often overwrote newer versions with older by mistake 16:11:50 even deliberately sometimes... 16:11:57 ais523, since I install ick into ~/local/ick 16:11:59 well 16:12:07 a good package manager can solve that, not everyone has access to one of those though 16:12:09 the library search path is an issue for me 16:12:22 ais523, I wouldn't install a darcs version outside my home dir 16:12:34 makes sense 16:12:42 the darcs versions are not guaranteed to work or even make any kind of sense 16:12:58 anyway, I'd better get around to applying that IFFI patch before you think to check... 16:13:29 /usr is reserved for package manager, /usr/local I don't use, since finding what file comes from what program would be painful 16:13:57 /opt is also for package manager, but I may use it if I have to, since you can do one directory for the program that way, but it has the downside of library search path again 16:13:58 I use sufficiently few programs that I have /usr/local organised in my head 16:14:03 so /home/local/ 16:14:05 err 16:14:10 so $HOME/local/ 16:14:43 ais523, I do use few such programs, but they are some that spread out lots and lots of files in the lib and share dirs 16:15:15 80 files in ~/local/flightgear-osg/lib 16:15:17 for example 16:15:19 ugh 16:15:24 and two are subdirs 16:15:28 with a lot more files 16:15:56 thankfully those happen to have a sane naming scheme 16:16:06 C-INTERCAL installs two files in prefix/bin, some libraries with obvious names in prefix/lib, man and info in the correct places in prefix/share, and the data files and include files are in a subdirectory specific to ick 16:16:15 so it doesn't really get in the way at all 16:16:16 libosg* libplib* libsg* libOpenThreads.so.* 16:16:33 and that is svn version btw 16:17:05 ais523, well you use automake to install now or? 16:17:17 AnMaster: still experimental, I'm planning to use that eventually though 16:17:37 ~/local/llvm/lib, now that contains a special version of gcc in it 16:17:43 no way I would want that in /usr/local 16:17:50 yes 16:17:55 what if it was called llvm-gcc? 16:18:05 well yes it is, but there is ~/local/llvm/lib/gcc 16:18:15 I'm still struggling with PATH problems with gcc-bf as it is 16:18:19 ~/local/llvm/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.2.1/ 16:18:22 it seems 16:18:36 it wants to install everything as bf-gcc, bf-ar, etc. in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin 16:18:37 ais523, well the binaries are prefixed with llvm- 16:18:43 so I got it in my PATH 16:18:53 just I don't like the mixed mess of all these in one place 16:18:59 yes, I'm using the same trick, fake /bin directory in the path for some things 16:19:04 uninstalling one or upgrading one would be PAINFUL 16:19:07 eh? 16:19:33 for other things I rely on the fact that if you tell gcc where it will be installed before you install it, then you compile and install it and access it with an absolute path, it can find ld and so on by itself 16:19:33 what do you mean with fake bin? 16:19:41 AnMaster: a directory on the path holding binaries 16:19:44 that's prefix/bin 16:19:47 for installing binaries into 16:20:03 well I always install with --prefix so I can keep track of them 16:20:17 and if I find it useful I may put it in the PATH 16:20:21 often I don't 16:20:55 I aim to get C-INTERCAL working with no support from the PATH 16:20:59 for example for flightgear that I mentioned above I got a complex wrapper script to construct command line arguments 16:21:01 $ ~/bin/run-fgfs --aircraft=lightning 16:21:01 Final command line: --multiplay=out,10,mpserver06.flightgear.org,5000 --multiplay=in,10,192.168.0.64,5000 --enable-fuel-freeze --disable-auto-coordination --disable-real-weather-fetch --disable-game-mode --prop:sim/traffic-manager/enabled=0 --prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true --aircraft=lightning 16:21:03 even without support from make install, on occasion 16:21:03 see? :D 16:21:37 and then stuff like -w to make it -enable-real-weather-fetch and so on 16:21:51 and it also sets various env variables 16:32:04 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:34:50 sooooooooooo 16:37:49 uuuuuuuuuuup 16:37:54 soup. 16:46:35 ais523: give me a crazy esolang idea. 16:46:41 or just esoteric in general 16:47:04 tusho: trying to think of one 16:47:11 I had one a while ago and forgot it, which is annoying 16:47:24 ah, I remember 16:47:31 it's a pair of languages with very similar syntax 16:47:38 all programs have to be a polyglot in both languages 16:47:48 and the output of one program is piped to the input of the other 16:47:57 optionally with a third program in between 16:48:05 and the two programs are opposites in a sense 16:48:56 tusho: ^ 16:49:07 hmm 16:49:14 that's interesting but i'm not sure how you'd go about it 16:49:17 programming gcc is like that 16:50:01 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:51:01 the .md file is a polyglot between a file that translates GIMPLE to RTL and a file that translates RTL to asm 16:51:35 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:51:56 made out of lots of commands that contain the standard pattern that comes out from the GIMPLE, the RTL, and the asm all in one command 16:52:02 D:< 16:52:17 with various things you can tweak all over the place to get the two halves to act differently 16:55:27 Hooray. #web is run by a power-mad retard. 16:56:23 -!- ais523_ has joined. 16:56:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:56:55 The op got angry at a guy for no reason, I pointed out an error in his reasoning, he responded with the same reasons and said 'got it?', I told him that his reasons were still wrong for the reasons I said, he opped himself and said 'GOT IT?', I told him that blindly asserting reasons while ignoring rebuttals and then threatening those who take issue with them is not acceptable and he could ban me if he wished, so he did, and says it's for 24 hours. 16:56:59 sorry... 16:57:01 lol, irc 16:57:03 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 16:57:09 tusho: which channel? 16:57:15 ais523: #web 16:57:24 sounds pretty general... 16:57:42 quite 16:57:54 it's web *development* 16:57:57 still general, but less so 16:58:53 I don't suppose it's owned by the inventor of the Web? 16:59:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:59:34 No. I think it's correct, actually. 16:59:36 Like #esoteric. 16:59:43 It's only for actual tangible things that the ## thing applies, I think. 16:59:51 I suppose so, something that's so common it doesn't need a ## 16:59:59 I wonder who invented esolangs? 17:00:00 (So I guess we should actually be on #nomic...) 17:00:18 and no, it's pretty clear that Nomic was invented by someone in particular 17:00:24 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:00:27 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 17:00:29 Help me! 17:00:30 and most discussions of Nomic reference Suber sometime 17:00:33 hi Slereah 17:00:51 ais523: it's not a tangible thing,t hough 17:01:00 "windows" is an actual product, a thing, an entity 17:01:06 therefore, since the channel is not official it is ##windows 17:01:09 but 'esoteric', 'web', 'nomic' 17:01:11 abstract concepts 17:02:43 hmm 17:02:53 speaking of annoyances that are prominent in channels 17:02:56 does ##c still have poppavic? 17:03:02 joy. 17:03:03 yes it does. 17:06:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:06:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:09:21 ais523: i have an eso project for you 17:09:36 tusho: I have too many at the moment, but go on 17:09:43 find out what system calls and stuff emacs uses, and implement them, and get a tty working etc. then, well, just boot emacs 17:09:51 essentially, write the least possible kernel that will run emacs 17:10:11 tusho: it can be run on DOS, and that's pretty minimal 17:10:21 ais523: yes, but it still has tons of unneeded stuff 17:10:26 all this OS would need to do is run one program at kernel level 17:10:28 I wonder if it runs on DOS 1? 17:10:32 that doesn't even have directories 17:10:40 and nothing else 17:12:27 well gcc_bf only has 2 syscalls 17:12:37 I wonder if I could get emacs running on that? 17:12:56 i doubt it :P 17:14:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:15:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:15:49 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah 17:15:54 I am at my wits end! 17:15:59 No more wits do I have. 17:18:46 Shit. There it goes again. 17:21:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:22:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:22:48 ugh 17:22:52 it's almost as though I'm competing with Slereah to see who has the least reliable connection 17:32:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:35:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:36:50 ais523: you win 17:36:51 lost the game 17:37:05 heh 17:41:18 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:42:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:44:42 back 17:44:53 Hulo 17:45:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:48:10 Slereah, what were you shouting about before? 17:49:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:53:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:01:11 ais523 has shouted? 18:01:13 :P 18:01:24 tusho: ? 18:01:32 oh 18:01:34 I misread 18:01:35 AnMaster: Slereah, what were you shouting about before? 18:01:37 but 18:01:40 your quit line was above it 18:01:58 optbot! 18:01:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | But it's not implementable, usable, interesting, or hard, or anything really. 18:02:08 * ais523 likes the new topic 18:02:11 well done optbot 18:02:12 ais523: maybe it'd be clearer in java 18:02:21 no no, bad optbot! 18:02:21 ais523: I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code 18:02:37 hmm... that must have been either me or tusho, I suspect tusho 18:02:48 hmm 18:02:50 that's not how i type 18:03:10 ais523: the current topic is mine 18:03:18 commenting on asie's stupid "-1 instruction set idea" 18:03:24 (every instruction except anything that makes the machine halt) 18:03:41 ais523: 08.01.16:07:50:59 I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code 18:03:47 ah, it was me 18:04:03 let's play guess-the-optbot-utterance! 18:04:04 ais523: The same applies to the vast majority of command-line UNIX, to be honest. . . 18:04:18 hmm... not sure, I don't know who in here types ... like that 18:04:22 pikhq 18:04:27 always puts spaces in 18:04:31 ah, ok 18:04:34 and uses correct grammar 18:07:52 tusho: have you seen dogface around recently? 18:08:02 ais523: dogface is ihope 18:08:04 but no 18:08:06 not apart from ##nomic 18:08:07 I know 18:08:10 I was using the new name 18:08:13 he only seems to join certain channels and only for a tiny time 18:08:15 ais523: no, he's ihope these days 18:08:19 he changed back 18:08:20 ah, changed back? 18:08:32 he was DogFace or DogKing or something in sine when i first went there 18:08:36 so i guess he just has a lot of nicks 18:14:33 ais523, how goes feather? 18:14:46 not very much at the moment, I'm working on other things 18:14:52 which I have talked about at length in this channel already 18:16:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:18:12 11:54:16 and your - is I(n) 18:18:14 what does that mean 18:18:26 could have been a typo for O(n) 18:18:35 which is pretty bad for subtract/decrement 18:18:40 but typical in esoteric functional languages 18:22:09 ah, of course 18:22:10 for your bf->ul 18:29:15 i still want http://xn--fvg8298f9da.xn--ii7c.org/ 18:33:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:33:36 Hello 18:33:42 hello 18:33:50 tusho: is that Punycode? 18:33:53 oh, and hello, tusho, i heard you aged to 30 all of a sudden 18:34:07 ais523: yes, for a thing that looks like ,[.,] 18:34:13 specifically ,[ as a subdomain of ,] 18:34:15 but not those exact chars ofc 18:34:16 just lookalikes 18:34:19 asiekierka: er no 18:34:28 Tusho: I don't believe you're 12. 18:34:33 asiekierka: why not 18:34:48 tusho: tbh neither do I, what with you claiming it was your birthday recently... 18:34:50 Because you wouldn't be at this level of knowledge right now 18:34:54 ais523: that's true. 18:35:02 asiekierka: stop being a moron, there's been a video of my posted here 18:35:07 Show it 18:35:11 go ahead, show it, show it 18:35:12 I'll take a picture right now 18:35:17 asiekierka: that might be illegal, you know 18:35:17 Well, no 18:35:21 a video 18:35:22 ais523: it is 18:35:23 well 18:35:25 i think so 18:35:27 yes 18:35:28 in the US, I think so 18:35:28 well, not in poland 18:35:31 not so sure about the UL 18:35:34 s/UL/UK/ 18:35:36 but still probably 18:35:43 coppa says that asking for personal information of someone you believe to be a minor is illegal 18:35:51 Yeah 18:35:55 but i'm from poland not the US 18:36:04 you're on US servers 18:36:16 And? 18:36:20 [17:49] [MOTD] - By registering your nickname with Nickserv you agree that you 18:36:20 [17:49] [MOTD] - are 13 years of age, or older. For more information about the 18:36:20 [17:49] [MOTD] - Children's Online Privacy Protection Act please see their 18:36:20 [17:49] [MOTD] - website at (http://www.coppa.org). 18:36:29 Oh 18:36:38 Well 18:36:39 brb 18:36:43 hmm... does anybody bother to read the Freenode on-server-join spam? 18:36:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 18:36:51 lol, asie just left because he's under 13 18:36:53 i guarantee it 18:37:03 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:37:08 I do not 18:37:29 Wait... 18:37:33 Tusho is also registered 18:37:35 and he's 12 18:37:36 not 13 18:37:38 I am 13. 18:37:42 Heh 18:37:43 I had my birthday on August 22nd. 18:37:48 But you WERE 12 18:37:50 Yes. 18:38:00 I flagrantly violated COPPA daily. 18:38:12 I do it for 2 years or so now 18:38:13 And so far 18:38:18 No-one got into my hhhhhhhhhhh 18:38:22 ok, back 18:38:25 hhhhhhhhhhhouse 18:38:25 That is not a sentence. 18:38:28 To sue me, or something 18:38:42 ais523: could you interpret his sentences for me 18:38:49 i understand about half of them 18:39:03 tusho: possibly, but I don't want to expend the brainpower. fungot, say something more intelligible, please! 18:39:04 ais523: yome i'm not sure if it'll run on os 9. there's a //great// system service and daemon system. 18:39:21 I see 18:39:25 ais523: not even asiekierka could top fungot 18:39:25 tusho: cl doesn't too much what? how? 18:39:32 you want me to get out of this place, because i'm illegal in the US 18:39:40 no 18:39:42 i never said that. 18:39:45 we just want you to stay on-topic 18:39:57 ais523: actually i don't care about him staying on-topic 18:39:58 rather than steer onto conversations that have lead to flamewars or similar in the past 18:40:03 And what is the topic 18:40:04 off-topic's fine as long as it isn't contentious 18:40:08 I care about him not saying random crap and attributing it to people who never said anything like that 18:40:09 asiekierka: see the topic 18:40:18 and then flooding the place 18:40:19 Well, agree 18:40:32 Just replace "But it's" with "Asiekierka is" 18:40:45 we have a random topicbot here 18:40:47 hi optbot 18:40:47 ais523: but it wouldn't work for bf, so it's probably not very interesting 18:40:49 ais523: he knows 18:40:53 having spammed "optbot!" for hours on end 18:40:54 tusho: too many typos spoil the broth 18:40:54 Can i do an optbot(!) 18:40:55 asiekierka: hm 18:40:56 ^echo optbot 18:40:56 optbot optbot 18:40:56 ais523: })}) <-- I like this language already --> 18:40:57 fungot: (at least while freeing) 18:40:58 optbot: i think distance should be measure in light years. well, maybe 18:40:59 fungot: . . . Unless the size of each variable is unlimited or something. 18:40:59 until we yelled at him to stop 18:40:59 optbot: even better if there's a srfi for it? :( 18:41:00 fungot: please paste another one! 18:41:01 optbot: once you do check syntax, you have 18:41:01 So, optbot, can i? 18:41:02 fungot: blarg 18:41:02 asiekierka: and it's only like 30 lines 18:41:02 optbot: except for the author of cobol female/ cow/ tip" 18:41:03 fungot: Aha. 18:41:08 fungot: please paste another one! 18:41:09 ais523: this is the ( infinite) and tried to deactivate you 18:41:09 ais523: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 18:41:09 So, can i do it, optbot!? 18:41:10 asiekierka: lol 18:41:17 No, srsly, can i do it, optbot 18:41:18 asiekierka: Rails adds untold horror to an already hideous language 18:41:23 ais523: this is the ( infinite) and tried to deactivate you 18:41:24 ais523: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 18:41:24 tusho: Wait a minute... 18:41:24 tusho: please someone send me an e-mail? 18:41:25 What? Sorry, can i do it, optbot 18:41:26 asiekierka: There's probably a term for it already, but mine works. 18:41:35 And what is it, optbot 18:41:36 asiekierka: tell me! 18:41:36 optbot: except for the author of cobol female/ cow/ tip" <--- that's quite worrying 18:41:36 ais523: i don't think he's really an fnord) 18:41:37 ais523: !bf [-.] 18:41:42 Optbot, it's "yes". 18:41:43 asiekierka: and distinguish them both? 18:41:48 Optbot, YES. 18:41:48 asiekierka: U+0145 is Å…, "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH CEDILLA". 18:41:54 Optbot, duhh, so can i 18:41:54 asiekierka: Granted. 18:41:58 Ok, i will 18:41:59 optbot: ~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba... 18:42:00 optbot! 18:42:00 ais523: The girl doesn't look too thrilled 18:42:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | THAT'S LIKE INSULTING GOOGLE!!!!!. 18:42:06 xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 18:43:07 I want to do a TV Service 18:43:18 AsieSat, or ASSat for short. Yeah, i see the joke 18:43:31 * ais523 tries to guess who said the topic 18:43:36 I think the context was a flamewar 18:43:41 possibly between rival OSs 18:43:46 and someone decided to parody it 18:43:49 not sure, though 18:44:09 SOMEONE RUN A SEARCH ON #ESOTERIC LOGS!!!!! 18:44:20 asiekierka. you have just flooded the channel with like 100 pointless chat with optbot 18:44:21 tusho: that website seems to work fine for me in w3m 18:44:27 what were we just not telling you to do? 18:44:27 just 8 18:44:30 and you doubled it, too 18:44:57 I just wanted to get out an answer from him 18:45:20 asiekierka: it's incredibly annoying for everyone else, though 18:45:26 oh ok 18:45:32 optbot: ! 18:45:33 asiekierka: 'Trivial'. 18:45:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:45:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:48:43 * asiekierka goes to the old and dusty switch room from his previous roleplay 18:49:02 {{Remember that? That one in a black box and with cubes and a universe-modifying C64?}} 18:49:38 asiekierka: oh, you're hijacking #esoteric again for that IRC RPG that nobody wants to play? 18:50:33 Sorry, but yeah. 18:50:43 ais523: tell him to stop 18:50:46 THE MAN FORC---Nothing, nothing, blowing out dust 18:50:46 please 18:50:48 he never listens to me 18:50:54 lament: tell asiekierka to stop 18:51:21 * asiekierka takes over lament for a split second 18:51:27 {as lament} tusho: tell asiekierka to stop 18:51:31 * asiekierka becomes back at asiekierka 18:51:33 asiekierka. 18:51:34 seriously. 18:51:34 stop it. 18:51:38 :( 18:51:48 it's ok to be silly but you're just being annoying. :| 18:51:55 :(( 18:52:08 smiley faces with ( in them don't change that 18:52:56 :(((( 18:53:01 You're mean. 18:53:10 asiekierka: i'm only mean beacuse you've done it so many times 18:53:18 and however many times you're told that you're being annoying you just keep doing it 18:53:26 ^bf ,[.,]!test 18:53:26 test 18:53:55 But i want to do it... somewhere 18:53:58 Where 18:54:05 asiekierka: notepad. 18:54:09 But with someone 18:54:15 There's no multiplayer notepad, is there 18:54:16 find someone who actually wants to. 18:54:19 and yes 18:54:19 moonedit 18:55:06 Where to find these people? 18:55:08 there are multiple multiplayer notepads around I expect 18:55:22 asiekierka: i don't know! this isn't #social-skills 18:55:25 forums 18:55:28 FORUMS? 18:55:30 asiekierka: #defocus? 18:55:30 Oh nononono 18:55:38 that's freenode's general social channel. find someone there. 18:55:41 tusho: suggesting #defocus was evil 18:55:50 ais523: at least he'll bother them, not us 18:55:53 and most of the stuff in there is tripe anyway 18:55:55 not sure why, though 18:55:57 or who towards 18:56:50 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:56:55 let me guess 18:57:00 he's going to come back very very soon 18:57:08 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:57:08 and start this whole annoyance-unhappy-quit cycle again 18:57:12 oho 18:58:29 ais523: yome i'm not sure if it'll run on os 9. there's a //great// system service and daemon system. <-- hahaha 18:58:29 AnMaster: as it ought to be 18:58:42 what is yome anyway 18:58:42 and yes I used MacOS 9 18:58:54 where is oklopol when you need him 18:58:54 so I know how crappy it is 18:58:59 no memory protection 18:59:14 AnMaster: amiga didn't have that either 18:59:16 what you had were not really DOS TSR but almost as bad 18:59:17 still a great os 18:59:28 tusho, sure, back when it was modern 18:59:36 but OS 9 crashed daily 18:59:57 or rather, random programs crashed and made the OS crash daily 19:00:05 yome is just a person on freenode/#scheme. 19:00:32 ais523: i have a sort of database idea that would work well for things like the counter log 19:00:42 sort of "inverted db" 19:00:44 go on 19:01:21 ais523: okay 19:01:21 :P 19:01:23 well 19:01:29 if you have the columns A,B,C and D 19:01:33 instead of 19:01:39 {key: (A,B,C,D), ...} 19:01:40 you have 19:01:50 {key:A,...} {key:B,...} etc 19:01:58 so you can look things up by anything 19:02:08 that's just indexes, isn't it? 19:02:11 and reconstruct with (astore[key],bstore[key]...) 19:02:12 ais523: well yes 19:02:14 but you have no master copy 19:02:17 everything is in the index 19:02:20 well 19:02:20 ok 19:02:23 i'll give an example 19:02:35 id is the internal row identifier 19:02:38 probably just a big int 19:02:42 and we have the columns 19:02:44 foo and bar 19:02:46 both integers 19:03:22 foo_store = {foo: [id]}; bar_store = {bar: [id]} 19:03:28 hnn 19:03:29 *hmm 19:03:30 i think 19:03:41 is Tk portable? 19:03:45 just wondering 19:03:52 AnMaster: yes 19:03:54 as in across most *nix + windows 19:03:56 but not native everywhere 19:03:59 and ugly most places 19:03:59 and possibly other OS 19:04:06 tusho, ugly *everywhere* 19:04:12 AnMaster: no, on windows it looks fine 19:04:16 and on os x it is kind of ok 19:04:19 really? 19:04:23 on OS X it's like a retard tried to make an OS X interface 19:04:26 wrong fonts, input fields are wrong, etc 19:04:28 and isn't tk related to tcl in some way? 19:04:29 iirc 19:04:31 AnMaster: yes 19:04:36 it's a tcl api 19:04:54 so how comes it is used outside TCL? 19:05:07 because it is. 19:05:07 for example there is TK for Perl iirc, and even for python I think? 19:05:11 and erlang use it 19:05:25 yes, and? 19:05:29 well why 19:05:48 because it works and is easy to us. 19:05:49 *use 19:05:51 very easy to use 19:06:04 I mean there is GTK, QT, wx, and a heap of other ones 19:06:07 that all look better 19:06:18 but they are difficult to use 19:06:23 hm maybe 19:06:31 not maybe 19:06:32 very definitely 19:06:38 gtk, qt, wx, they are all a right pain to use 19:06:44 you can get a hello world in tk in 3 lines of simple code 19:07:15 AnMaster: 19:07:16 package require Tk 19:07:16 button .hello -text "Hello, World!" -command { exit } 19:07:16 pack .hello 19:07:23 you click the button and it exits 19:07:23 trivial 19:07:24 well 19:07:25 (that's in tcl) 19:07:31 and the apis in other languages are identical 19:07:35 sure it is easy to use from tcl 19:07:48 well can you avoid including tcl at all then? 19:07:50 and use tk 19:08:01 AnMaster: no, the other languages apis just call the tcl functions 19:08:02 it's trivial 19:08:06 and tcl is tiny-footprint 19:08:08 tusho, so they need tcl installed? 19:08:09 hrrm 19:08:17 AnMaster: tcl and tk are the same package in a lot of distros 19:08:18 most, i'd say 19:08:23 probably 19:08:50 tk looks good on windows 19:08:53 it looks pretty much native 19:08:58 apart from, again, input fields 19:09:08 but yeah, while tk is fine on os x, i could easily spot a tk from a nontk app 19:09:14 and on x11...bwaahhahahaha 19:09:15 although 19:09:17 there is a theme engine for tk 19:09:20 that makes it look OK on x11 19:09:25 tusho: just like you can spot a Java GUI application a mile off? 19:09:32 ais523: not on OS X 19:09:32 at least if Swing-based? 19:09:33 ais523, ah yes 19:09:34 it uses native controls 19:09:36 with swing 19:09:39 wow 19:09:43 ais523: yep 19:09:43 but doesn't that defeat the point of Swing 19:09:47 kind of 19:09:49 well QT and GTK looks good on X 19:09:49 :D 19:09:53 i'm not complaining though 19:09:56 apple did it, i think 19:09:57 they are both native I'd say 19:09:57 not java 19:09:59 er 19:09:59 not sun 19:10:17 but yes 19:10:24 java apps are a pleasure to use on os x 19:11:00 at least wings use some other GUI, home made I think 19:11:06 but looks good and works well 19:11:22 and way way less messy than the custom style blender use 19:11:39 (wings is a 3D modeller in erlang, in case you wonder) 19:11:49 (rather good for polygon modelling) 19:11:57 AnMaster: good thing you told us that 19:12:02 we'd only heard it 30 times 19:12:05 no 19:12:07 it's starting to sink in now 19:12:09 you maybe heard it twice 19:12:44 ooooh I just have to link tusho to this :D 19:12:46 he will love it 19:12:53 sigh 19:12:56 http://www.erlang.org/doc/efficiency_guide/part_frame.html 19:12:57 * AnMaster runs 19:13:09 shut the fuck up AnMaster 19:13:17 hahah :D 19:13:19 there is a difference between carefully optimizing operations that need it 19:13:25 tusho, indeed 19:13:27 and making your code fucking unreadable and shit for no reason 19:13:31 apart from 0.000001ms 19:13:35 well my code isn't unreadable 19:13:39 yes it is 19:13:47 it got a high comment ratio according to ohloh 19:13:49 ;) 19:14:02 tusho, I think your code tends to be unreadable 19:14:17 AnMaster: i'd like to point out that i don't give a shit and you keep bringing up this flamewar 19:14:49 tusho, you started it 19:14:59 ooooh I just have to link tusho to this :D 19:15:00 no, you did 19:15:04 pretty clear 19:15:05 tusho, well orignally 19:15:15 want me to dig up logs? 19:15:19 AnMaster: yes. and then i dropped it because it is pointless having any sort of discussion with you 19:15:28 and now you keep. fucking. dragging. it. back. up. and. pissing. me. off. 19:15:32 stop. it. 19:16:43 well efunge isn't over-optimised, I did some optimising, but only after trying to run the game of life in b93 under it. Then I used a profiler to find out what made it so slow (took like 20 seconds for each generation, while ccbi took about 1/3 or so, and cfunge 1/10) 19:16:54 then I optimised that, so it is around 1 second per generation 19:17:03 by replacing with a more efficient funge space 19:17:04 AnMaster: hello, you missed the part where I said "i don't give a shit" and "stop bringing it up" 19:17:07 I profiled all the time 19:19:22 ais523: hm, do you have /usr/bin/command there? 19:19:28 let me check 19:19:33 it seems to be usable in place of the /usr/bin/env trick except it's actually designed for that 19:19:35 no 19:19:36 dunno how widespread it is, though 19:19:42 ais523: darn 19:19:48 I don't have it either 19:20:08 however the is a shell builtin in bash called command 19:20:38 $ help command 19:20:38 command: command [-pVv] command [arg ...] 19:20:38 Runs COMMAND with ARGS ignoring shell functions. If you have a shell 19:20:38 function called `ls', and you wish to call the command `ls',.... 19:20:47 tusho, if that is what you meant? 19:20:53 yes, but that's a shell builtin 19:20:56 you can't use that in a shebang 19:20:57 seems to be posix standard too 19:21:12 hm 19:21:42 RATIONALE 19:21:43 Since command is a regular built-in utility it is always found prior to the PATH search. 19:21:56 so POSIX seems to say it should be built into shell 19:21:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:22:02 that was from man 1p command 19:22:02 darn 19:22:52 tusho, what are you planning to do? 19:22:56 if you want to locate bash try 19:23:03 #!/usr/bin/env bash 19:23:03 or such 19:23:07 AnMaster: i'm not an idiot 19:23:08 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:23:11 ok 19:23:14 tusho: ais523: hm, do you have /usr/bin/command there? 19:23:15 [19:19] ais523: let me check 19:23:15 [19:19] tusho: it seems to be usable in place of the /usr/bin/env trick except it's actually designed for that 19:23:16 what are you planning then 19:23:18 reading helps 19:23:21 i was just curious 19:25:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 19:25:48 ah posix doesn't say it *have* to be a built in 19:25:57 but that it will probably be implemented as that 19:26:17 http://rafb.net/p/o0h09q99.html 19:26:20 interesting 19:28:09 http://www.sexwithcars.org/ <- A forum for people who have sex with cars. I don't know either. 19:28:24 tusho: why paste that here? 19:28:39 ais523: i found a link to it and thought it sufficiently esoteric in an amusing way 19:34:57 http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html 19:35:36 oerjan: are those going to spot the black hole in realtime? 19:36:18 ais523: no, you'll be able to watch them to see if the universe has exploded or not 19:36:28 LOL 19:36:30 haha 19:36:36 now that is amusing 19:37:29 (found it on the Irregular Webcomic forum) 19:47:21 these are apparently real (and so, boring): http://www.lhc.ac.uk/web-cams.html 19:48:32 -!- olsner has joined. 19:48:51 oerjan: yeah those are boring 19:49:38 although one of them was obviously used to generate the upper part of the first link 20:10:14 bye for an hour 20:12:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:12:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:13:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:39:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:48:08 -!- CO2Games has joined. 20:48:31 hm 20:49:01 God damnit 20:49:05 I need to shit 20:49:34 I fucking hate shitting because I have to plunge the toilet every time 20:55:11 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 20:59:40 what do you think of ocaml? 21:00:55 -!- LinuS has joined. 21:04:18 ugly :-/ 21:06:53 -!- Corun has joined. 21:07:12 Deewiant, isn't it in the same family as Haskell, both share ML as ancestor iirc 21:07:19 but yeah that one is uggly too 21:07:21 ugly* 21:07:25 so *shrug* 21:08:53 no, ML isn't Haskell's ancestor 21:09:25 Deewiant, the syntax looks similar certainly 21:09:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:09:46 or depends on what you mean of course: they're both functional and ML is older than Haskell so there was probably some influence :-P 21:09:58 Haskell is much prettier than ML IMO 21:10:05 the polymorphic type system was certainly introduced in ML 21:10:06 or maybe I've only seen crap ML code 21:10:36 Deewiant, I mean, they share the look of unreadable and using | in odd ways, 21:10:41 certainly there are many inspirations 21:11:11 Haskell, along with Lisp, has the most readable code syntax-wise IMO :-P 21:11:23 and as for |... I'm not going to respond 21:11:53 examples from wikipedia: some haskell: 21:11:53 f x 21:11:53 | x > 0 = 1 21:11:53 | otherwise = 0 21:11:53 some ml: fun fac 0 = 1 21:11:53 | fac n = n * fac (n-1) 21:12:05 err there was a missing newline after ml: 21:12:05 but well 21:12:13 I think they seem pretty similar 21:12:16 not same function indeed 21:12:20 yes, because implementing a trivial two-liner says everything :-P 21:12:22 but the general syntax 21:12:43 the | does not mean exactly the same thing there though 21:12:46 what little real ocaml source code I've seen, I've found ugly 21:12:49 probably not 21:12:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:12:55 another haskell version is: 21:12:58 f 0 = 1 21:12:59 I don't know either language, I just note they look similar 21:13:03 f _ = 0 21:13:13 f = fromEnum . (>0) 21:13:17 they certainly look more like each other than like, say, erlang or prolog 21:13:32 which languages? 21:13:34 while erlang and prolog look quite similar according to ais523 21:13:39 ais523, ML and Haskell 21:13:42 the | is used for conditional guards in haskell, but to separate cases in ML (apparently) 21:13:51 is this ML now or O'Caml? 21:13:57 AnMaster: for erlang and prolog, they vaguely resemble each other, the differences are pretty obvious though 21:13:58 you switched topics at some point :-P 21:14:13 Deewiant, well O'Caml descend from ML 21:14:14 O'Caml is an ML. 21:14:21 but not SML 21:14:29 ais523, well yes 21:15:08 ML is not indentation sensitive like haskell 21:15:21 haskell is not indentation-sensitive if you don't want it to be 21:15:44 haskell care about indention!? 21:15:49 yep 21:15:50 urgh if it does 21:15:54 if you want it to 21:15:59 I thought only python did that 21:16:06 unlike with Python, though, I've never had any problems with Haskell's indentation 21:16:16 haskell was first, i think (but not _the_ first) 21:16:17 s/problems/issues/ 21:16:45 anyway yes I like indention, but not everyone want to indent the same way 21:16:56 so use braces and semicolons 21:17:01 just look at how many indention styles there are for C! 21:17:07 haskell only is indentation sensitive in a few constructs 21:17:14 and in any case, it's fairly open about it 21:17:20 must be painful to parse based on indention 21:17:27 the rest you can indent as you want 21:17:31 AnMaster: Haskell indentation looks better than Python indentation, and if you put { and } in it ignores the indentation 21:17:37 ah ok 21:17:40 AnMaster: the indentation sensitiveness is mostly stuff like "the contents of a for loop must be indented deeper than the for loop" 21:17:52 AnMaster: yeah haskell indentation is painful to parse, especially because of its more flexible rules than python 21:17:56 i.e. not "4 spaces or a tab or you die" 21:17:58 Deewiant: that's in Python, in Haskell you have to line the arguments up with the second word of the loop 21:17:59 ais523, someone should implement { } in python :D 21:18:07 AnMaster: someone did I think 21:18:17 there are modules for both Python and Perl to use the other's indentation/block syntax 21:18:19 ais523, well as a filter and joke iirc 21:18:21 (for a compiler) 21:18:31 hm 21:18:32 ais523: oh, you do? I always do it in all languages anyway, never noticed it was necessary :-) 21:18:40 ais523, you mean line noise for python? 21:18:41 :D 21:18:59 AnMaster: that's the regex syntax which is almost the same in Python as in Perl 21:19:04 block syntax in Perl is much like in C 21:19:14 with some differences 21:19:16 ais523, and no not just regex in perl 21:19:26 ais523, I can read perl regex just fine, I even like PCRE 21:19:38 it is stuff like qw/foo/ that put me off 21:19:40 or whatever it was 21:19:55 but qw is to make programs more readable! 21:19:55 and the "you can do it in n+1 ways for any given n" 21:20:10 qw/foo bar baz quux/ is equivalent to ("foo", "bar", "baz", "quux") 21:20:14 useful if you have a long array 21:20:15 you can do anything in n+1 ways anyway, but only any m <= n will be smart ways 21:20:22 ais523, sure probably it makes some special case more readable, but a "heavy" syntax is harder to learn 21:20:34 steep learning curve 21:20:35 well you only have to learn a bit at a time when writing Perl 21:20:39 so shallow learning curve 21:20:47 steep learning curve if you're trying to /read/ it, though 21:20:51 and perl is ugly 21:21:01 not as ugly as php, I admit php is worse 21:21:03 but close 21:21:30 I can't think of any non-esoteric language that is uglier than php 21:21:46 well there probably is some I don't know 21:21:51 COBOL I guess 21:21:54 COBOL? :-) 21:21:56 heh 21:22:04 mumps perhaps 21:22:06 ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL 21:22:08 or bancstar 21:22:09 Deewiant, but I don't know COBOL enough to know what it looks like 21:22:14 AnMaster: like that 21:22:27 10 OK 21:22:32 AnMaster: any guesses as to what that does? 21:22:34 you even had to spell out all the arithmetic operations 21:22:36 20 THIS OLD BASIC IS PROBABLY WORSE 21:22:40 30 GOTO 10 21:22:44 AnMaster: I DOUBT IT 21:22:47 hm 21:22:49 no 21:22:53 seriously, COBOL is worse. :-P 21:22:54 php is worse than that 21:23:01 well ok 21:23:13 AnMaster: imagine assembly language, but written out in English 21:23:14 ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL <-- COBOL++? 21:23:19 yep 21:23:19 that's what COBOL's like for arithmetic 21:23:22 AnMaster: wait that line 10 is legal? 21:23:28 AnMaster: yes, COBOL++ 21:23:30 oerjan, no probably not 21:23:36 i mean 20 21:23:38 oerjan, I never coded in basic 21:23:55 * oerjan started with basic 21:23:59 luckily COBOL is somewhat good for database processing and has useful commands for that, or it would never be used at all 21:24:00 I began with (gulp) AppleScript 21:24:07 left it for Pascal, then later C 21:24:09 and I started with Pascal and with BASIC 21:24:52 then after a while I learnt 6502 asm 21:24:53 well AppleScript isn't *ugly*, with AppleScript the issue is something else.... maybe the way it try to act like English with bad gramar? 21:24:55 probably not typical 21:24:55 grammar* 21:25:15 also I learnt PAL, a scripting language for a database engine nobody ever uses nowadays I think 21:25:23 I got quite good at it though despite it being so obscure 21:25:35 tell application "Finder", end tell <-- shudder, that is about all I remember 21:25:44 then VBA, which is annoying and stupid but it was pretty easy to get hold of interpreters 21:25:56 also I learnt C++ some time around this, and C somewhat later 21:26:05 C++ before C? 21:26:06 weird 21:26:17 I mean C is easier to learn than C++ IMO 21:26:24 AnMaster: well I came across C++ first 21:26:30 unfortunately this was pre-standardisation C++ 21:26:35 most people learn "C/C++" 21:26:45 Deewiant, they are very very different languages 21:26:50 sure they share some parts 21:26:52 * oerjan learnt LPC before C 21:26:53 you think I don't know? 21:26:55 so I'm in a similar sort of situation to someone who knows only K&R C and doesn't really understand prototypes 21:27:21 I keep on forgetting about things like namespaces, and have to look up all the keywords and standard library names because they're different 21:27:32 but if you take a random non-trivial C program, say 4000+ LOC then chances are it won't compile as a C++ program 21:27:53 of course not, mostly because of the idiocy with void* in C++ 21:27:54 oerjan, LPC? 21:27:58 AnMaster: yep, but if you replace all the calls to malloc it's a lot more likely to 21:28:07 Deewiant, well that and int template; 21:28:15 AnMaster: which is not that likely 21:28:16 maybe sort out constness of string literals but good C programming style shouldn't have that problem 21:28:17 and such 21:28:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPC_(programming_language) 21:28:35 there are other C features that are hard to translate to C++ but they tend not to be used very much 21:28:47 Deewiant, well certainly I saw a member of a struct called template in a plugin ABI recently 21:28:47 when i was MUDing 21:28:50 on a project I work on 21:29:24 crossfire, so codebase got a long history, since 1993 or so 21:29:52 const char* to char* and what not *shudder* 21:30:01 AnMaster: a trivial #define will fix use of C++ keywods 21:30:06 s/s$/rs/ 21:30:13 wait... that's still typoed 21:30:19 ais523, I think two files compile as C++ on that project 21:30:19 s/drs$/rds/ 21:30:24 one of them is generated by flex 21:30:29 that says something doesn't it? 21:30:38 there are quite a lot of files 21:30:55 AnMaster: C files are unlikely to coincidentally compile as C++ 21:30:57 mostly due to malloc 21:31:06 ais523, and even after malloc is fixed I mean 21:32:38 ais523, and certainly most parts doesn't use malloc in it, the code prefer sprintf + char [MAXBUF]; on the stack (though I fixed the remaining sprintf to snprintf some months ago) 21:32:49 One needs to make a point of making something valid C and C++... 21:32:57 Though it's not too *hard* if you make a point of it. 21:33:09 pikhq: or too sensible really, in most cases 21:33:11 pikhq, no I make a point of making it not compile as C++ 21:33:14 ais523: Granted. 21:33:15 probably it's best to make malloc and free macros 21:33:19 pikhq, :D 21:33:21 if you're doing that sort of thing 21:33:30 There's no point in it, of course, but it's not difficult. ;p 21:34:26 pikhq, I prefer to use C99 specific features like flexible array members to make it harder to port to C++ :) 21:34:35 since I really think C++ is doing it the wrong way 21:34:46 C99 is definitely nice to code in. 21:34:56 I admit to rather liking C++ 21:34:57 sorry 21:34:58 objc and smalltalk do seem to have a much saner OOP model than C++ 21:35:02 I'm not a huge fan of C++, myself. 21:35:18 though most time OOP really just confuse isssues 21:35:20 issues* 21:35:22 and I actually like its OOP model, but maybe that's because I don't care about insanity and I've been forced to learn Java 21:35:27 And I still want to beat Bjarne with a cluebat for overloading << and >> for I/O. 21:35:41 pikhq, yes that is even worse 21:35:43 Those are bitshift operators, dammit! 21:35:50 not in that context 21:35:57 they just look like bitshift operators to a C programmer 21:35:57 operator overloading do have uses, but using it for IO.... no 21:36:17 Just because you can define operator+ to be the multiplication operator doesn't make it the multiplication operator. 21:36:23 that's not operator overloading, that's finding a spare unused operator in your cupboard and deciding to use it for something else because it can handle the additional workload 21:36:24 It makes it proof that the coder is a cock. 21:36:25 say if you implement a class doing decimal numbers as fractions of two BIGNUM 21:36:37 then overloading +-*/ would be sane 21:36:45 and so on 21:36:51 ais523: cout << 1 << 4, oops, didn't print 16 21:37:00 Deewiant++++ 21:37:06 Deewiant++ 21:37:08 Deewiant: it does I think, << is left-associative 21:37:23 (cout << 1) << 4 definitely prints 16 21:37:26 Now, if you really *want* an operator to be used for output, define *another one*. 21:37:26 ais523, well then that would make it even more confusing 21:37:30 ERROR: Lambdabot existence failure 21:37:30 ais523: just tested it, doesn't 21:37:32 s/16/1 4/ 21:37:35 it prints 14 21:37:37 (cout << 1) << 4 definitely prints 16 <-- err= 21:37:39 what? 21:37:42 AnMaster: typo, sorry 21:37:55 not 1 4 either, specifically 14 :-) 21:37:57 that must be count (1 << 4) 21:37:59 Deewiant: wait, I've been saying the opposite of what I mean 21:38:07 cout << 1 << 4 prints 14 as expected 21:38:11 is what I meant to say 21:38:14 ais523, that is not expected 21:38:30 it is expected but it's an easy mistake to make which is why << was a bad idea 21:38:33 it should print 16 21:38:36 yes it is, why would you expect << to associate the other way for no good reason? 21:38:59 well, I expect it to work sanely 21:38:59 the right operator to overload is function call 21:39:11 cout(1 << 4)(1)(4) // 1614 21:39:15 Deewiant, you mean... cout.print()? 21:39:20 no, I mean that 21:39:24 huh 21:39:27 overload function call? 21:39:32 that doesn't sound sane at all 21:39:33 really 21:39:33 of course you can have an alias called print if you like 21:39:37 why would, for instance, cout << "a" << 1 << 4 <<"b" parse as (((cout << "a") << (1 << 4)) << "b") rather than ((((cout << "a") << 1) << 4) << "b") 21:39:47 I'd prefer a different operator for the purpose. 21:39:50 err 21:40:01 can you overload function call in C++? 21:40:05 please please say no 21:40:06 ais523: Such things are a natural side effect of there being two definitions for the same operator. 21:40:06 yes, as well as in D. 21:40:10 oh god 21:40:17 AnMaster: what's wrong with that? 21:40:21 ah, that's a change from the C++ I've learnt, I think 21:40:21 worse than my worst fears 21:40:26 ... operator()? 21:40:29 yeah, that 21:40:35 *shudder* 21:40:41 ugh 21:40:43 AnMaster: sure you can :) 21:40:44 AnMaster: not really a problem, though, because an object is not a function nor vice versa 21:40:46 what's your problem with operator() :-P 21:40:48 I'd understand it if C++ were defined similarly to Plof... 21:41:02 Namely, every operator is soley defined via overloading. 21:41:06 besides, you have to love compile-time turing-completeness 21:41:13 I don't in C++ 21:41:18 because it's so limited 21:41:21 it's hard to find use for it 21:41:28 so? 21:41:37 so it's just pointless 21:41:47 anything turing-complete can be abused! 21:41:49 Deewiant: we're in #esoteric at the moment... 21:41:52 besides, you have to love compile-time turing-completeness <-- NO 21:41:52 so also c++ templates 21:41:55 I don't like that 21:41:59 ais523: yes, but C++ isn't meant to be esoteric :-) 21:42:16 and C++ templates are icky 21:42:17 Deewiant: all languages should be capable of being esoteric, or they're arbitrarily limiting what they're useful for 21:42:27 AnMaster: /way/ better than Java templates 21:42:30 AnMaster: read http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html if you haven't 21:42:30 I mean, generic classes fine, they exist in C# for exampl 21:42:39 List 21:42:39 "C++ prohibits goto from crossing an initialisation." 21:42:41 sure 21:42:42 fine 21:42:43 but 21:42:46 Um, what? 21:42:48 Factorial<4> 21:42:50 no thanks 21:42:50 ais523: well, C++ is easily esoteric even without templates :-) 21:42:55 AnMaster: and why not? 21:42:58 You mean goto foo;int i = 0;foo: isn't valid C++? 21:43:01 That's borken. 21:43:06 pikhq: no, imagine if int is an object 21:43:10 do you run its constructor? 21:43:12 if so, when 21:43:12 pikhq, it isn't? 21:43:28 I think it doesn't give an error, only undefined behaviour or something like that since you're jumping past the initialization of i 21:43:50 olsner: Compilers are required to complain about that. 21:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Nope.. 21:45:44 !! 21:45:49 optbot! 21:45:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://www.codu.org/cgi-bin/hg/hgwebdir.cgi/plof/file/512a473fb11b/core/pul/collection.plof // this has a few psl{} bits, but, err, ignore those :P. 21:45:51 optbot! 21:45:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but i can't remember the differences image, so. 21:45:59 optbot! 21:46:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | well, there's an accent on the u for starters. 21:46:01 are you sure? I'm pretty sure MSVC doesn't... and since warning about it relies on the ability of the specific compiler to analyze control flow, different compilers give warnings in different cases 21:46:03 optbot! 21:46:04 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | integers. 21:46:27 olsner: MSVC never claimed to be standards compliant ;-) 21:46:32 What's it to yoü 21:46:41 Deewiant: the vast majority of languages are esoteric 21:47:06 ais523: what do you mean? 21:47:22 I mean that they can be used for esoteric purposes 21:47:27 like the IOCCC, for instance 21:47:36 C isn't an esolang, but IOCCC programs are esolang programs 21:47:49 well, I wouldn't call a language esoteric for that reason 21:47:50 one thing that annoys me about Python is that it tries to arbitrarily restrict this tendency 21:47:56 I'd call it turing-complete ;-) 21:47:58 Deewiant: well, I suppose so 21:48:27 (incidentally, one of my friends, a big Python fan, was trying to persuade me that Python wasn't Turing-complete because there was only one way to do everything) 21:48:40 heh, what became of that 21:48:49 (they were wrong, of course, I've seen an implementation of ?: in Python of course and it looked like Perl but worse) 21:48:52 that makes no xense 21:49:01 sense* 21:49:04 sorry 21:49:04 blergh 21:49:08 I mean 21:49:17 that it wouldn't be turing complete makes no sense 21:49:23 well, yes, obviously 21:49:41 it got loops, it have memory, even if it have the sizeof() problem it still got file IO 21:49:49 I didn't quite reach the point of pointing out that it's entirely possible to write a Perl interp in Python and write the Perl program you feed it as input in more than one way 21:49:50 and all the other basic stuff 21:50:40 not that I see why anyone would want to write a perl implementation in python 21:50:50 well maybe that would mean they would get perl6 done faster... 21:50:51 hehe 21:50:53 but really, I get annoyed when people say there should only be one way to do an if, for instance 21:50:54 AnMaster: BTW, I'll try to update the mycology results table this weekend so if there's a release pending you should probably do it 21:51:11 Deewiant, too late tonight, will do it tomorrow 21:51:17 as I'm going to sleep in 10 minutes 21:51:19 or so 21:51:25 as am I 21:51:26 OK, maybe Perl is a bit excessive (I can think of 5 ways to do an if offhand), but it's nice to have a choice 21:51:31 so you can pick one that's easy to write 21:51:35 Deewiant, so lets see when I wake up tomorrow 21:51:35 in your situatio 21:51:37 s/$/n/ 21:51:40 may be late 21:51:52 AnMaster: no rush, it takes a long time to do it 21:51:53 since I read the last Terry Pratchett last night 21:51:57 until 6 in the morning 21:52:05 so my sleep pattern is broken 21:52:12 "Nation", very good book 21:52:14 however 21:52:24 very very unlike Pratchett's normal writing style 21:52:29 totally different 21:52:40 (don't know if there are any other fans of his books here) 21:54:59 I've read most of the ones I've got hold of, some are very good and some are just mediocre 21:55:14 ais523, well this one isn't a Discworld one 21:55:32 and yes some of the early ones are not as good 21:55:32 interesting 21:56:02 btw Good Omens is excellent 21:56:36 ais523, well would you say that the jokes and humor is an important part of Good Omens? 21:56:41 I would 21:56:41 yes, I would 21:56:54 ais523, and same for most of Pratchett's other books 21:56:57 but not Nation 21:57:04 ah, ok, so pretty different, then 21:57:09 it got a few jokes, but really it is more about telling the story 21:57:57 still I'd say it was extremely good, couldn't put the book down 22:00:11 night all 22:00:18 night 22:03:02 bakkk 22:04:11 forrrt 22:05:03 there is a guy in #defocus right now 22:05:16 saying that google is run by the government and yelling about aspartame and flouride and such 22:05:18 tusho: playing RPGs with asiekerka? 22:05:20 and asking us for good news sources 22:05:32 Poe's law! 22:05:34 tusho: refer them to the Onion, or possibly UnNews 22:05:37 ais523: already done 22:05:40 he complained 22:05:47 then someone pointed him to infowars.com 22:05:50 which he claimed he was above 22:05:52 and i did lol. 22:05:53 hmm... wikileaks? 22:06:00 heh 22:06:17 MacGyverNL, yeah, alex jones is an agent 22:06:17 wow 22:06:19 that's a metaconspiracy 22:06:26 a 911 conspiracy theorist ... is a government agent 22:06:59 it's a reasonable idea - drown out the _real_ conspiracy theories with fake ones 22:07:20 oerjan: is that a conspiracy theory conspiracy theory? 22:07:26 probably 22:07:37 It's a conspiracy metatheory. 22:07:41 Nicely done. 22:07:42 tusho, you are generalizing the only person you ever knew existed? 22:07:44 w h a t 22:07:49 anyway, alex jones is a shill william cooper was closer to telling the truth 22:07:50 tee hee hee 22:08:11 ais523: he's in #nethack 22:08:12 believe it or not 22:08:16 tusho: which nick are you complaining about? ThePaintedMan? 22:08:24 yes 22:08:26 yes, a #nethack regular, who seems quite sane over there 22:08:45 ais523: maybe he's trolling us 22:08:52 people can act so differently on different channels... 22:09:04 ais523: although nethack players seem quite nice in general 22:09:06 so i don't know why he would 22:09:22 #nethack's pretty polite and helpful 22:10:07 ais523: s/ top/ to/ get a flight simulator 22:10:13 i am pretty sure that he is a troll now 22:10:29 my brain has trouble parsing that 22:10:39 it reads the to as both inside and outside the s/// 22:10:53 it would be funny if he wasn't using foul language 22:10:58 BUT NOW IT JUST OFFENDS MY SENSIBILITIES :( :( :( 22:13:14 ThePaintedMan: alex jones created fluoride to poison people's minds so that they wouldn't know he's a government shill 22:13:15 It's true. 22:15:40 Dr Strangelove ripoff? 22:15:55 No, I made that up all by my lonesome. 22:16:13 oh i misread 22:16:24 i thought he was the one saying that 22:17:09 anyway, since i've just discovered Poe's Law i would like to claim that, again 22:25:45 some of the gems from his early minutes: 22:25:45 i dont even use a microwave...molecular friction destroys protein changse 22:26:21 google is run by the us government 22:27:56 gahahahha 22:27:59 now he's ranting about 9/11 22:28:02 and how global warming is false 22:29:12 hahaha 22:29:14 he's exploding 22:29:19 and spouting pseudo-science 22:31:38 MacGyverNL, if you havent figured it out in 7 years how could i prove anything 22:32:23 there is peer reviewed phd papers out about this[citation needed] 22:34:43 tusho: who added the {{fact}} tag? 22:34:48 ais523: me 22:35:24 i will i have to go to thea irport 22:35:27 after people asked for evidence 22:39:22 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sì, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 22:42:17 ais523: any esoteric ideas yet? :P 22:43:23 tusho: there was the rather crazy idea I saw suggested of doing massively parallel processing by sending malformed HTTP packets to a lot of computers and seeing which ones bounced and which ones got lost 22:43:41 however I don't think HTTP is Turing-complete or anywhere near it, so I doubt it's usable for computation 22:43:43 heh 22:43:50 at least not for computations you couldn't just do yourself more easily 22:44:50 ais523: can you remember that netcc idea I came up with? 22:44:54 a p2p compiler network 22:45:00 the wan to distcc's LAN 22:45:04 not really, apart from the name 22:45:30 although what might be interesting: a massively distributed testsuite 22:45:31 it'd have to compile everything twice, i think 22:45:35 to verify that somebody isn't faking it 22:45:45 where you get to try out your program on all sorts of different configurations 22:45:56 it could easily beat most other tests at testing portability on obscure systems 22:46:05 ais523: debian does something like that 22:46:06 cpan too 22:46:17 debian just for builds 22:46:20 tusho: I know, but I was thinking of a much broader scale than Debian 22:46:20 but i think cpan runs the tests 22:46:27 because they restrict themselves to sane implementations 22:46:35 presumably in a sandbox 22:46:37 oh, and the Hurd, and ia64 22:46:45 and it's in a chroot, in a fakeroot, I think 22:46:58 ais523: duke nukem forever will run on hurd, i believe 22:47:03 and ONLY hurd 22:47:15 it'll be the hurd's kiler app 22:47:16 *killer 22:47:19 oh wait 22:47:21 I mean GNU/Hurd 22:47:47 tusho: nah, Busybox/Hurd or something else that ignores the GNU utilities would be funnier 22:48:04 or even better, Explorer/Hurd 22:48:30 Explorer/Hurd :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 22:49:05 ais523: the installation process will have an Ogg Theora video of Stephen Fry next to it walking you through it 22:49:15 licensed under by-nc-nd 22:49:22 nah, something silly like Ogg/PNG 22:49:28 which is theoretically possible but pointless 22:49:56 ais523: so which do you think will be first 22:49:57 hurd or dnf 22:50:19 tusho: hard to say, when DNF comes out Hurd won't be usable but the FSF will claim it is 22:50:27 so there'll be a massive precedence argument 22:50:34 and in the end the matter will just be left unsettled 22:50:41 ais523: uh, you mean ... the current situation? 22:50:41 :P 22:50:50 You can use the Hurd today! As long as you don't want to do anything! 22:51:02 yep, and it'll still be like that when DNF is released 22:51:14 personally I'm looking forward to DNF a lot more than Hurd 22:51:25 tusho: The FSF doesn't pretend that the Hurd is useful. 22:51:26 although Hurd might just be as funny, though not intentionally 22:51:29 pikhq: O RLY? 22:51:31 ais523: get out that quote 22:51:35 quick 22:51:35 Even RMS doesn't claim that the Hurd is useful... 22:51:51 tusho: it would take a while to find 22:51:53 but I'll try 22:52:01 Okay, fine, so ams thinks the Hurd is useful... 22:52:08 But his idea of useful is 'runs Emacs'. 22:52:41 it exists 22:52:41 The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can start using and developing it 22:52:56 this is in a section entitled "Advantages of the Hurd" 22:53:29 Whoever wrote that page was on crack. 22:53:37 The Hurd *works*, sure... 22:53:51 ams? 22:53:52 i really don't WANT the hurd to work, it seems terribly deisgned 22:53:57 what ever happened to worse is better 22:54:02 In the same sense that somebody implementing an OS entirely in Visual Basic may have something working. :p 22:54:13 oerjan: He's the current GNU system maintainer. 22:54:14 -!- Snrrrub has joined. 22:54:20 gnu system maintainer lol 22:54:30 you mean ... he manages lots of software packages 22:54:31 yes, but what is his name? 22:54:32 Really, most of what he does is be an ass. 22:54:33 -!- Snrrrub has left (?). 22:54:47 who is that guy who led/leads glibc? 22:54:50 Alfred M. Szmidt. 22:54:52 i like him, he didn't like rms a lot 22:54:59 and seemed to be generally reasonable 22:55:08 ok 22:55:27 pikhq: moar like Alfred M. Stallman 22:55:28 amirite 22:56:11 more like Adolf M. Stallman 22:56:24 http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/ 22:56:31 expert home directory exposure via the web 22:56:50 http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/home/ what the fuck :D 22:56:52 what's with all the nested public_htmls? 22:57:12 ah, symlink loop, must be 22:57:22 ais523: yes 22:57:26 ln -s public_html ~ 22:57:30 and, err, ln -s home ~ ? 22:57:39 err 22:57:42 wrong way around for the ln 22:57:43 whatever 22:58:07 tusho: Good description. 22:58:22 Except that even RMS admits ams is an ass. 22:58:33 pikhq: who is the glibc maintainer guy 22:58:34 or ex-maintainer 22:58:36 Dunno. 22:58:48 tusho: ln works like cp, it's a lot easier to remember how to write it once you realise that 22:58:54 But he's still the maintainer; know the guy you're talking about, at least. 22:58:59 ah, ulrich drepper 22:59:06 he is cool, i think 23:01:27 Hmm 23:02:14 hmm 23:02:17 +b on irc is weird 23:02:20 it lets you read but not talk 23:02:21 unless you part 23:02:24 in which case you can't do either 23:02:33 why not force a kick, or allow entry? 23:02:36 you can still logread... 23:02:40 ais523: not my point 23:03:02 and kicks and bans being separate makes sense from an implementation point of view 23:03:02 I'm thinking of adding function support for drainfuck 23:03:07 although not a user point of view 23:03:12 ais523: yes, so why not let you rejoin after a ban 23:03:14 but still not talk? 23:03:19 tusho: +b is +ban 23:03:19 like the actual behaviour you get after setting a ban 23:03:28 CO2Games: please read before commenting 23:03:41 tusho: arguably there should be three things involved: kick, silence, and prevent_join 23:03:44 It's called a kickban 23:03:50 CO2Games: i am not an idiot 23:03:50 the problem is that +b combines two of those 23:03:51 Also, tusho that function already exists 23:03:54 in a nonobvious way 23:03:56 I AM NOT AN IDIOT, CO2Games. 23:04:00 i already know 23:04:03 +q 23:04:16 CO2Games: did you miss the part where i already knew 23:04:22 i'm saying that +b behaves wrongly 23:04:41 B just forces someone to be unable to rejoin 23:04:49 Heh now the muting part is stupid 23:04:50 CO2Games! stop it! 23:04:56 i know! 23:04:57 i think +b probably has communist sympathies 23:05:14 and is secretly plotting to overthrow irc 23:05:29 communism is awesome! 23:05:40 Too bad theres no communist countries 23:05:43 :\ 23:05:48 s/communist/stalinist/ 23:05:58 what? 23:06:11 communism is verily unawesome 23:06:11 :D 23:06:20 communism is the best 23:06:24 this +b is not one of those kind, gentle communists you are talking about 23:06:34 CO2Games: unfortunately not 23:06:39 Everything is free and everyone is together 23:06:45 lol 23:06:50 Oh it's the best. Why wouldn't anyone want communism? 23:06:55 I mean seriously 23:07:00 Everything is free. 23:07:05 CO2Games: your tone suggests non-seriousness 23:07:05 Everyone is happy 23:07:10 or at least a massive misunderstanding of communism 23:07:21 tusho, do you know what communism is? 23:07:32 CO2Games: yes, i have a brain 23:07:35 CO2Games: where do you think all the free stuff is coming from? 23:07:41 you have to work to fulfil the other side of the equation 23:07:44 Ok, what is communism 23:07:47 and in practice it's hard to persuade people to work 23:07:53 ais523: noooo, communism is where everyone is happy and they dance in the fields!!!! 23:08:01 and nobody does anything, they just chill and be happy! 23:08:18 People do what they love, and love what they do 23:08:26 It's like the bushmen, or the amish 23:08:27 loooooooooooooool!!!!!!! 23:08:42 Unfortunately there is no communism 23:08:45 have to go now anyway to catch my bus 23:08:46 bye 23:08:48 -!- ais523 has quit ("9"). 23:09:04 Rather, we have dictatorships dubbed communist 23:09:18 true communism has no government but the people themselves 23:09:32 You need a government to get people to work 23:09:40 CO2Games: Information: You are showing yourself to be hilariously uninformed. 23:09:45 When you have a government, you aren't communist 23:10:00 the thing is, communism requires perfectly unselfish people 23:10:01 Then what is communism? 23:10:06 Exactly 23:10:22 nobody is perfectly unselfish, communism is based on the flawed principle that there are unselfish people 23:10:23 That is why we have NOTHING that is truely communist, except maybe the amish 23:10:27 and if you have only perfect people, every government works. even nazism ;) 23:10:28 and therefore communism is a piece of shit 23:11:03 tusho: oh i'm sure there are _some_ unselfish people 23:11:04 Wasn't that previously called facism? 23:11:13 fascism 23:11:31 tusho: arguably there should be three things involved: kick, silence, and prevent_join <-- various ircds support silence in various ways, can't remember freenode syntax 23:11:41 Heh I always wondered what that meant until someone said "its not pronounced face-ism" 23:11:46 yes, wek now AnMaster 23:12:04 tusho, about http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/ <-- huh, and you even reach his .emacs 23:12:10 no bashrc 23:12:12 some use +b ~Q, some use +q, etc. 23:12:14 no .ssh 23:12:38 (when (featurep 'xemacs) 23:12:38 (error "Please don't use Lucid Emacs. GNU Emacs is much nicer.")) 23:12:40 "Lucid Emacs"? 23:12:42 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL 23:13:01 tusho, that was an early name for xemacs iirc 23:13:04 i know 23:13:04 though not sure 23:13:06 from lucid corporatio 23:13:07 n 23:13:08 What is lucid emacs 23:13:22 CO2Games: you use windows and notepad, iirc? 23:13:25 actually, what is emacs 23:13:29 heh 23:13:36 AnMaster: http://www.jwz.org/doc/lemacs.html 23:13:50 And yes, I use notepad for text 23:15:26 So anyways 23:15:45 I was thinking of implementing a second stack in my interpreter, the callstack 23:16:50 with some sort of return function 23:17:00 And perhaps an interrupt-like system 23:17:06 clearly what we need here is a smoke stack 23:17:25 I forgot...what is a smoke stack again? 23:18:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokestack 23:19:08 ahh 23:23:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:23:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:23:50 tusho, thanks for that link 23:23:52 interesting 23:23:55 night really now 23:42:26 The airplane almost crashed when Elliott tried to into the president, so had no qualm with MY daughter. a cat. (a juicy cat.) So my uncle , who was really pretty queer, raped himself. We can dance if we want to, But it didn't make a bit of difference, because I raped him back Suddenly, shit was fucked up and pee was fucked down. Several years later, there was nothing left of the world. Or time for that matter. God decided to pull his beard off to reveal that 23:42:30 when did that get cut off 23:42:51 "reveal that" 23:43:23 he was really Rick Astley. and he would have gotten away with it too, if it wern't for Rob Zombie is indeed a zombie. Hi! 23:43:34 sheesh, have there been any stories that didn't include sex yet? 23:43:57 oerjan: yes, the first 4 test ones 23:44:07 but apart from that, this is the internetweb 23:44:18 hmm, first 5 tests 23:44:28 oerjan: #6 has no sex 23:44:41 #7 has lots of penises but no sex 23:44:50 #8 has anuses but no sex 23:45:22 #11 has no sex 23:45:36 #13 has butts but no sex 23:45:38 the end 23:46:39 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:57:09 Today, Niklas raped a bird. The bird then raped a Elliott's butt which proceeded to eat fish. be a rapist. and hump feathers. Suddenly, the website for Later that day, a rapist raped himself. Then a bird, who was a rapist, raped Niklas. It was rapelicious. One day, Niklas was not raped he raped a bird and it was still rapelicious. Speaking of rapelicious, I have heard of a rapist beard. 5+5=10 Rape is fun. Yiff! 23:57:28 ... 23:57:30 :D 23:57:38 Auuuugur! 23:57:38 best story yet 23:57:42 What have you done! 23:57:43 A RAPIST BEARD