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00:15:59 <AnMaster> <fizzie> In the Discworld mythos, Patina, goddess of wisdom, carries a penguin on her shoulder. </trivia> <-- ah, another Discworld fan :)
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00:17:25 <AnMaster> night all
00:22:07 <GregorR> AGG UNMATCHED TAGS
00:22:13 <GregorR> <fizzie> can't be closed with </trivia>!
00:22:30 <tusho> fizzie is trivia
00:22:32 <tusho> ooh burn
00:22:54 <CO2Games> Ok I've updated the source
00:23:50 <CO2Games> i've also removed the logging of actions after seeing a 40 GB output.log file
00:40:11 <tusho>     From the page: " Please, write the 99 bottles lyrics go to hell" They did it wrong.. I suppose it's up to me. for(int i=99;i>=0;i--) Well for some reason StumbleUpon doesn't like the little arrows, so I'm going to replace them with spaces. But you all know what I mean. cout "We've got " i " bottles of beer on the wall! " i " bottles of beer! Take one down, pass it around, we've got " i-1 " bottles of beer on the wall!" I know it isn't perfect, but fuck of
00:40:29 <tusho> Not fungot output.
00:40:30 <fungot> tusho: if followed by any number of
00:40:31 <tusho> But a comment:
00:40:35 <tusho> v
00:40:36 <tusho> http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP
00:41:28 <tusho> so, one last plug befroe the day is done
00:41:30 <tusho> http://tusho.net/
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03:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that's the point.
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06:34:06 <AnMaster> morning
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08:48:56 <oklobol> am i oklo the pol again?
08:48:59 <oklobol> no! yay
08:54:51 <fizzie> You are a bol this time.
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09:03:25 <oklobol> well sure, but this is a respectable nick.
09:03:38 <oerjan> as long as you are not Prozac the Bear
09:36:03 <oklobol> was thinking about this programming language that enforces good programming style by somehow guaranteeing there are errors in the program, something like you supply a seed at the beginning of the program, and it's used to make small random adjustments to variables at certain points; every function has a separate assert block, if it catches the error, the function works normally, otherwise, well, you just get the error
09:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | factor is too destructive for my tastes.
09:47:36 <oerjan> FAC-TOR-IZE!
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10:05:26 <oklopol> o
10:05:36 <oerjan> ooo
10:06:26 <oerjan> hey wait a moment
10:07:09 * oerjan whacks his brain for wanting to make an o tower
10:11:38 <oklopol> o
10:11:39 <oklopol> oo
10:11:39 <oklopol> ooo
10:11:40 <oklopol> oooo
10:11:41 <oklopol> ooooo
10:11:42 <oklopol> oooo
10:11:42 <oklopol> ooo
10:11:43 <oklopol> oo
10:11:45 <oklopol> o
10:12:01 <oerjan> eek
10:12:01 <oklopol> i call it "space ship who knows what true love is"
10:12:15 <Slereah_> oo
10:12:21 <oerjan> oooo
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12:08:52 <AnMaster> hm, rcfunge may beat cfunge in speed at mycology, but cfunge is way way faster than both rcfunge and ccbi at life.bf
12:12:03 <funktio> about how fast do those interpreters run mycology.b98?
12:12:32 <funktio> mine took about 3s last time I timed
12:13:34 <AnMaster> cfunge manages in:
12:13:35 <AnMaster> real    0m0.315s
12:13:36 <AnMaster> user    0m0.117s
12:13:36 <AnMaster> sys     0m0.030s
12:13:55 <AnMaster> that is an -O2 build
12:14:04 <AnMaster> on my x86_64 (2 GHz)
12:14:17 <AnMaster> I can't test your on my cpu since it doesn't compile for me
12:14:20 <funktio> ok, quite a bit faster
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12:14:44 <AnMaster> hey Deewiant
12:14:49 <AnMaster> ccbi segfaults in SCKE here
12:14:54 <AnMaster> I think it is the last one
12:14:57 <AnMaster> GOOD: P pushed 0 for socket without data
12:14:57 <AnMaster> Segmentation fault
12:15:52 <AnMaster> funktio, for rcfunge: not sure, since it's TURT opens a window, and that blocks
12:16:00 <AnMaster> so it depends on how fast I click close
12:16:40 <funktio> does that affect the user time?
12:16:50 <AnMaster> yes it seems so
12:17:22 <AnMaster> and for my own efunge in erlang: only 93 yet
12:17:29 <AnMaster> but it is a bit faster than this morning
12:18:00 <funktio> ok
12:18:58 <AnMaster> but all the other interpreters beat it at life.bf, iirc you can find it at catseye's 93 page
12:19:02 <AnMaster> since it is befunge93
12:19:18 <AnMaster> for cfunge it is so fast it looks like a motion picture here ;)
12:21:27 <AnMaster> funktio, http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/life.bf
13:12:02 <tusho> a
13:14:28 <Slereah> It's in a limited area?
13:14:35 <tusho> jk
13:14:41 <tusho> Slereah: befunge-93 is 80x24
13:14:44 <tusho> no exceptions
13:15:04 <funktio> isn't the height 25?
13:15:16 <Slereah> Hm.
13:15:22 <tusho> funktio: dunno
13:15:27 <funktio> yes, it is
13:15:37 <funktio> "The Befunge-93 specification restricts each valid program to a grid of 80 instructions horizontally by 25 instructions vertically."
13:15:56 <Slereah> I forgot, is the game of life supposed to be only TC if you allow some infinite patterns?
13:17:11 <tusho> yes
13:17:18 <tusho> they have to frolick.
13:17:30 <tusho> also the turing machine with finite tape is like 5000000x5000000
13:17:47 <Slereah> What's the computational power of a game of life with an infinite space but only finite starting patterns
13:18:34 <tusho> Your mother.
13:18:46 <tusho> Slereah: Anyway, it's literally fixed
13:18:49 <tusho> in that interp they cannot grow
13:18:52 <tusho> beyond the initial size
13:18:57 <Slereah> I had sex with your mother
13:19:02 <Slereah> I fucked her, with my dick
13:19:10 <Slereah> Yes, but I am still wondering
13:19:15 <Slereah> I WONDER
13:19:18 <tusho> that was an interesting tangent
13:19:38 <Slereah> Let's see if Wikipedia can answer this
13:19:49 <Slereah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_life
13:19:54 <Slereah> This is not what I expected.
13:20:17 <tusho> I had/have that game.
13:20:17 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life
13:20:22 <Slereah> I know
13:24:10 <Slereah> "It ties in closely with an earlier discovery by John Conway of an extremely dense packing of unit spheres in a space of 24 dimensions where each sphere touches 196,560 others. As Conway has remarked, "There is a lot of room up there.""
13:24:11 <Slereah> heh
13:40:24 <AnMaster> <Slereah> I forgot, is the game of life supposed to be only TC if you allow some infinite patterns?
13:40:31 <AnMaster> well that instance is clearly not TC I agree
13:40:35 <AnMaster> and I never claimed it was
13:40:47 <AnMaster> nor did anyone I think
13:40:48 <Slereah> It is irrelevant to this.
13:40:53 <Slereah> I'm just wondering.
14:28:23 <oklobol> infinite initial patterns?
14:28:44 <Slereah> That's what I'm trying to remember
14:28:57 <Slereah> an you have something TC in GoL with only finite initial patterns?
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14:29:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ccbi --version, what is it
14:29:44 -!- oklobol has joined.
14:29:53 <AnMaster> a sec
14:30:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, CCBI - Conforming Concurrent Befunge-98 Interpreter version 1.0.13
14:30:16 <Deewiant> 1.0.14 is the latest
14:30:21 <AnMaster> ah ok
14:30:25 <AnMaster> will try that in a bit
14:30:26 <AnMaster> busy atm
14:31:10 <Deewiant> and 1.0.14 had a couple of sock/scke-related fixes in it so I would hope it doesn't crash :-)
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14:43:19 <mtve> oh, my game of life on befunge was mentioned here today, thanks :)   it was done 12 years ago btw.
14:44:59 <Slereah_> I think my computer-related achievments back then was playing Indiana Jones 4.
14:48:42 <tusho> hi mtve!
14:49:12 <mtve> hello
14:49:53 <tusho> how did you get that game of life so tiny?
14:50:04 <tusho> goblins?
14:50:15 <Slereah_> Gremlins, tusho
14:50:21 <tusho> ah
14:50:36 <tusho> mtve: confirm/deny?
14:53:10 <mtve> confirm that it was done by me?  well, you can dig befunge maillist archives circa 96
14:53:25 <tusho> no, confirm that it is so small because of gremlins
14:53:28 <tusho> :D
14:53:30 <mtve> tiny becase i was trying to leave as much room for the field as possible
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15:13:53 <Slereah> "OPERATING SYSTEM VULNERABLE TO VIRUS AND SPYWARE! ME RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGH FIX IT! LINUX! PROBLEM SOLVED!"
15:22:45 <Slereah> Guys
15:22:46 <Slereah> http://i.somethingawful.com/fashion/espanolSWAT/01.jpg
15:22:48 <Slereah> Is...
15:22:55 <Slereah> Is it written "ESCO" on the top left?
15:29:03 <tusho> ...
15:29:05 <tusho> :O
15:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evasion_%28book%29.
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16:13:48 <asiekierka> Hi... http://worlds-highest-website.com/
16:14:06 <asiekierka> And http://www.tetris1d.org - currently at 9600
16:14:29 <tusho> Hi asiekierka.
16:14:54 <tusho> Is now a good time to plug http://tusho.net/?
16:15:12 <asiekierka> Lessee
16:15:54 <tusho> asiekierka: re /msg me, I didn't get it
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16:16:31 <tusho> re /msg it.
16:16:31 <asiekierka> done
16:18:45 <asiekierka> tusho: Do you have Spore?
16:18:52 <tusho> No.
16:19:19 <asiekierka> oh
16:19:20 <asiekierka> :/
16:19:27 <Slereah> Longsite is long
16:19:33 <Slereah> I'll have spore next week
16:19:36 <Slereah> For mah birthday :D
16:19:43 <asiekierka> Galactic edition?
16:20:18 <Slereah> Prolly
16:20:19 <asiekierka> Of course, if it'll still be availble
16:20:36 <asiekierka> Well, what happened in the esolang world during my 1-month absence?
16:20:51 <Slereah> We made a language out of ham
16:21:01 <asiekierka> link?
16:21:09 <asiekierka> I want to make a BF "Hello World" cookie box
16:21:10 <asiekierka> As in
16:21:12 <asiekierka> you get the signs
16:21:17 <asiekierka> cookies, i mean
16:21:21 <tusho> You want to make _everything_ BF, asiekierka.
16:21:24 <tusho> (You never do, though.)
16:21:24 <asiekierka> xD
16:21:27 <asiekierka> Yeah
16:21:29 <asiekierka> That's me
16:21:34 <asiekierka> Maybe not I want
16:21:59 <Slereah> That 1d tetris is hard
16:22:16 <asiekierka> http://www.lalalaa.com/ - the best song of the year, also has different versions
16:22:21 <tusho> old
16:22:23 <tusho> (2006 old)
16:23:14 <Slereah> I wonder if I can leave 1d tetris in the background until it reaches the score limit
16:23:35 <tusho> yes
16:23:49 <asiekierka> Yes
16:24:04 <Slereah> What happens then? D:
16:24:11 <asiekierka> You get 99 million points
16:24:23 <asiekierka> I'm at 18400 in tetris1d_left_in_BG
16:24:33 <asiekierka> 19600 now,, no wait, 20400!
16:25:08 <asiekierka> 26000
16:25:11 <asiekierka> due to a little speedup
16:26:50 <asiekierka> 34800
16:30:14 <asiekierka> 51000
16:31:18 <asiekierka> 55800 :D
16:32:17 <asiekierka> 60200
16:32:26 <Slereah> This is how we spend our time on #esoteric
16:32:42 <tusho> 252555555555555555555
16:34:02 <asiekierka> Guh
16:34:08 <asiekierka> sometimes tetris1d just stops by itself
16:34:09 <tusho> 3125444445
16:34:13 <asiekierka> it stoped at 66600 now
16:34:15 <asiekierka> oh god
16:34:54 <Slereah> SATAN
16:36:51 <asiekierka> i knew it!
16:36:58 <asiekierka> Tetris 1D is the work of satan himself
16:37:12 <Slereah> Well, Tetris is the devilish work of communists
16:37:31 <asiekierka> Not communists but communist
16:37:38 <asiekierka> or communist's work
16:37:48 <asiekierka> Also, no-one cared about him
16:37:56 <asiekierka> there was no law
16:37:57 <asiekierka> everyone stole it
16:37:59 <Slereah> Except for Satan
16:38:12 <asiekierka> Nope
16:38:16 <asiekierka> He didn't care either
16:38:33 <asiekierka> He already planned years in hell for him for making something FUN
16:38:36 <asiekierka> or
16:38:38 <asiekierka>  FUN
16:38:44 <tusho> 2
16:38:54 <tusho> hmm
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16:38:59 <asiekierka> Well, the good games are fun games
16:39:02 <tusho> i am going to make something like nethack, except:
16:39:06 <Slereah> Like 4D Tetris
16:39:06 <Slereah> ?
16:39:07 <tusho> 1. massively multiplayer
16:39:08 <tusho> 2. online
16:39:17 <tusho> because that will be phun
16:39:18 <asiekierka> AGREED WITH YOUR IDEA
16:39:20 <asiekierka> agreed
16:39:21 <Slereah> MMO Tetris
16:39:26 <tusho> Slereah: ha.
16:39:28 <asiekierka> yeah, good idea
16:39:40 <tusho> you know what i do with good ideas?
16:39:42 <asiekierka> it'll be bad
16:39:42 <tusho> I DO THEM
16:39:44 * tusho does it
16:39:53 <Slereah> i'm a good idea.
16:39:55 * asiekierka does tusho since he's actually a good idea
16:40:02 <tusho> that was my joke.
16:40:03 <tusho> :|
16:40:06 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie.
16:40:07 -!- asie has changed nick to asies_tusho.
16:40:15 <asies_tusho> nope, that was MY joke. :|
16:40:20 <tusho> but it was my joke before yours
16:40:21 <tusho> :|
16:40:29 <asies_tusho> no, it was MY joke before YOURS
16:40:32 <asies_tusho> :/
16:40:45 <tusho> no.
16:40:48 <Slereah> Dudes, it was mine before all of you'z
16:41:10 <asies_tusho> no, tusho, it was my joke, CLONE. You're my clone altogether!
16:41:16 <asies_tusho> :|
16:41:19 <tusho> Slereah: why do you think i said it
16:41:22 <tusho> i said it like that as a joke
16:41:43 <Slereah> On the matter, I started to feel internet old when someone didn't know what "All your base" was.
16:41:49 <asies_tusho> The only difference between us is that ...
16:41:55 <asies_tusho> ...you're a CLONE
16:42:17 -!- asies_tusho has changed nick to asiekierka.
16:42:27 * asiekierka gets back to his senses
16:42:34 <asiekierka> Hey... what h-happened? Why are you staring at me angrily, tusho?
16:42:52 <Slereah> tusho is a little cauldron of hate
16:43:08 <tusho> If you know what I mean.
16:43:55 <Slereah> I wonder if there's innuendo in the word innuendo
16:44:14 <tusho> In-your-end-o.
16:44:29 <Slereah> :D
16:45:09 <Slereah> tusho, I love you
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16:45:19 <Slereah> Am I going to jail for pedophilia?
16:45:23 <tusho> I didn't invent that one, actually.
16:45:27 -!- asiekierka has joined.
16:45:32 <tusho> But feel free to love me.
16:45:43 <Slereah> The law won't let me
16:46:22 <asiekierka> You know
16:46:25 <asiekierka> I'd like to play a game
16:46:33 <asiekierka> Will we?
16:46:33 <tusho> yes
16:46:36 <tusho> play the one i am making
16:46:39 <asiekierka> No
16:46:40 <tusho> (multiplayer webhack)
16:46:43 <asiekierka> But a game on IRC
16:46:44 <tusho> yes
16:46:45 <tusho> :|
16:46:46 <tusho> ewll
16:46:47 <asiekierka> I want to play a game with you
16:46:47 <tusho> well
16:46:49 <tusho> like what
16:46:50 <tusho> :P
16:46:52 <asiekierka> and slereah
16:46:52 <tusho> I am not cybersexing.
16:46:58 <asiekierka> ROLEPLAYing...
16:46:59 <Slereah> We already did IRC games.
16:47:01 <asiekierka> Random roleplaying.
16:47:04 <Slereah> Cake challenges.
16:47:04 <asiekierka> Who wants to join
16:47:08 <tusho> I put on my robe and wizard hat.
16:47:21 <Slereah> I put on my leather costume.
16:47:33 <Slereah> It's not cybersexing, I'm a barbarian >:|
16:47:35 <asiekierka> I put on my stupidity helm
16:47:38 <Slereah> A BDSM Barbarian
16:47:42 * asiekierka starts the roleplay
16:47:50 <asiekierka> We are in a infinite black box. What do we do?
16:48:06 <Slereah> I look to see if there's anything.
16:48:06 <tusho> *ahem*  I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000 Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.
16:48:18 <tusho> Robots are trying to drill my brain but my lightning shield inflicts DOA attack, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.
16:48:23 <tusho>  King Arthur congratulates me for destroying Dr. Robotnik's evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. The cold war ends. Reagan steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of him.
16:48:28 <tusho> ~fin~
16:48:32 <asiekierka> ...
16:48:36 <asiekierka> THAT'S GODMODDING, SIR
16:48:42 <Slereah> That was quick.
16:48:43 <tusho> That's bloodninja, sir.
16:48:45 <asiekierka> Because it's not a roleplay
16:48:46 <asiekierka> as in
16:48:48 <asiekierka> an RPG roleplay
16:48:51 <tusho> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/bloodninja
16:48:52 <asiekierka> It's a "chat roleplay"
16:48:56 <asiekierka> A puzzle roleplay
16:48:59 <tusho> Edumacate yourself.
16:49:02 <asiekierka> We are somewhere and must figure our way out
16:49:06 <tusho> no
16:49:09 <asiekierka> And do stupid stuff
16:49:30 <asiekierka> Sorry, Lvl. -1 IRC AsieRoleplayer, i'm Lvl. 3030 IRC AsieRoleplayer
16:49:33 <tusho> no
16:49:35 <asiekierka> :P
16:50:11 <asiekierka> So
16:50:16 <Slereah> I'm a level 88 SS.
16:50:20 <asiekierka> what was i doing? Oh, playing Pacman on my C64.
16:50:26 * asiekierka grabs his laptop
16:50:27 <Slereah> You see a jew and a fiddle
16:50:34 <asiekierka> You see a portal gun.
16:50:42 <asiekierka> What do you do?
16:50:48 <Slereah> I push the jew in the portal
16:50:52 <Slereah> To fall FOREVER
16:50:53 <asiekierka> a portal gun
16:50:54 <asiekierka> not a portal
16:51:01 <asiekierka> There's also a GRAVITY GUN
16:51:08 <Slereah> I make two portals
16:51:09 * asiekierka takes the gravity gun, obviously nearer him
16:51:13 <Slereah> On top of each others
16:51:15 * asiekierka takes the portal gun with the gravity gun
16:51:16 <asiekierka> Also
16:51:21 <asiekierka> you didn't take the gun!
16:51:22 <asiekierka> THINK
16:51:23 <Slereah> I push the jew in it
16:51:28 <Slereah> Fuck you
16:51:38 <asiekierka> *ahem* *cough* Think.
16:51:41 <Slereah> Or you'll go in too
16:51:58 <asiekierka> But you can't do it
16:52:03 <asiekierka> The black box is infinite
16:52:10 * tusho rips off asiekierka's face
16:52:16 <asiekierka> So it'll have no end alre---*starts falling since there's no bottom either8
16:52:18 <asiekierka> *
16:52:23 <Slereah> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
16:52:29 <Slereah> Wait
16:52:34 * asiekierka listens to lalalaa on his iPod
16:52:36 <Slereah> How can we fall if it's infinite?
16:52:44 <Slereah> The nearest gravity source is infinitely far
16:52:50 <asiekierka> BECAUSE THERE IS STILL GRAVITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
16:53:17 <asiekierka> IN THIS INFINITEEEEEEE BLACK BOXXXXXXxxyxyyyxyxyxxxxxxxxxxxxzyyxyzyxyyxyzzyxxxxxxxxxx
16:54:09 * asiekierka falls on something
16:54:10 <asiekierka> Wait a minute
16:54:15 <asiekierka> This is a little gray cube
16:54:18 <asiekierka> Actually enough to hold me
16:54:21 <asiekierka> There are a lot of them
16:54:31 * asiekierka takes some cubes near him and stacks a tower... [10%]
16:54:37 * asiekierka takes some cubes near him and stacks a tower... [40%]
16:54:38 * asiekierka takes some cubes near him and stacks a tower... [80%]
16:54:48 <Slereah> A tower on what?
16:54:49 * asiekierka stacked a tower of... 5 cubes!
16:54:51 <Slereah> Is there a floor?
16:54:54 <asiekierka> No
16:54:55 <Slereah> Is there anything?
16:54:59 <asiekierka> But the cubes defy gravity
16:55:01 <asiekierka> And there's a lot of them!
16:55:07 <asiekierka> Defy so they stay in air.
16:55:16 <Slereah> But if you grab them, you'll give them momentum
16:55:25 <Slereah> Unless they actually float
16:55:32 <asiekierka> They... float.
16:55:33 <asiekierka> Sort of
16:55:39 <asiekierka> They have little engines so they float
16:55:41 <asiekierka> Or rather
16:55:43 <asiekierka> Block momentum
16:55:57 <Slereah> But if they have engines, shouldn't they go up?
16:56:11 <asiekierka> Remember that there is gravity
16:56:21 <asiekierka> While they're falling, they're going up at the same speed
16:56:25 <asiekierka> So there's a floating illusion
16:56:30 <asiekierka> Or something
16:56:32 <Slereah> But they're much lighter
16:56:38 <Slereah> Unless they're huge cubes
16:56:41 <asiekierka> Huge
16:56:59 <asiekierka> About the size of 2 mac minis stacked on top of each other
16:57:00 <Slereah> Also, if they're still now, if you grab them, they'll go down
16:57:19 <Slereah> Unless they have little accelerometers to tell them to have more thrust
16:57:42 <asiekierka> Nope, i'm stacking cubes on a cube that was still from the beginning
16:57:46 <asiekierka> So they fall down
16:57:46 <Slereah> Also why do we care if we fall, anyway?
16:57:50 <Slereah> Apart from the cubes, everything also falls down, at the same speed
16:58:00 <Slereah> So in a way, all objects are still
16:58:05 <Slereah> And the cubes are moving
16:58:09 <asiekierka> Because... the cubes can power the same amount of power as a single power outlet can :D
16:58:26 * asiekierka connects his C64 to one cube, his laptop to the other, and his TV to another
16:58:47 * asiekierka loads up BASIC and programs some stuff... while noticing something! [25%]
16:58:48 * asiekierka loads up BASIC and programs some stuff... while noticing something! [50%]
16:58:49 * asiekierka loads up BASIC and programs some stuff... while noticing something! [74%]
16:58:51 * asiekierka loads up BASIC and programs some stuff... while noticing something! [99%]
16:58:54 * asiekierka found out something!
16:59:14 <asiekierka> The BASIC code written on a C64 connected to a cube can manipulate this black box!
16:59:36 * asiekierka writes a code to create a floor
16:59:36 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:59:41 * asiekierka writes a code to create a floor [33%]
16:59:46 * asiekierka writes a code to create a floor [66%]
16:59:46 * asiekierka writes a code to create a floor [99%]
16:59:57 <Slereah> What is this, Second Life?
16:59:58 * asiekierka created a floor! It's of enough width and height to cover us all
17:00:07 <asiekierka> ... didn't play second life
17:00:15 <asiekierka> And there's no internet here!
17:00:16 <asiekierka> Oh wait
17:00:28 * asiekierka puts up his laptop as a server with programs downloaded from the i----shit.
17:00:41 <asiekierka> like, there's NO internet here
17:00:47 <asiekierka> Nor do i have programs for a server!
17:00:48 <asiekierka> My only hope is
17:00:59 * asiekierka takes out his Turbo Pascal 7 copy and programs a server app [1%]
17:01:39 <asiekierka> {{come on, do something!}}
17:01:46 <asiekierka> {{You're still falling, on a cube or on the floor doing something :P}}
17:02:24 <Slereah> I don't have to fear anything
17:02:31 <Slereah> It's not like falling is dangerous
17:02:40 <Slereah> It's landing that's dangerous
17:02:41 <asiekierka> But it's over
17:02:47 <asiekierka> You're on a cube and on a floor
17:02:49 <asiekierka> And you're bored
17:02:58 <asiekierka> Hopefully
17:03:03 <asiekierka> the cubes are soft
17:03:17 <Slereah> I try to have sex with the cubes.
17:03:18 <asiekierka> and the floor can't be even felt... You may think you're still falling if you don't look
17:03:26 <asiekierka> *AHEM*... One more that and i quit
17:03:52 <Slereah> Aw :(
17:03:55 <asiekierka> No
17:03:56 <asiekierka> I'm a kid!
17:04:04 <Slereah> I NEED AN ADULT!
17:04:17 <asiekierka> Tusho is dead
17:04:27 * asiekierka makes an infinite wall between slereah and tusho
17:04:43 <tusho> asiekierka: i am a kid too
17:04:43 <asiekierka> *sings quietly* for the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead...
17:04:46 <tusho> tell you what
17:04:48 <asiekierka> Oh right
17:04:54 <tusho> if psygnisfive/augur and oklopol are ever in here at the same time
17:04:55 * asiekierka destroys the wall and makes COOKIES from it
17:04:57 <tusho> you should part
17:05:01 <tusho> lest your innocence is destroyed.
17:05:17 <asiekierka> ok
17:05:19 <asiekierka> Well
17:05:28 * asiekierka programmed the server app
17:05:41 <asiekierka> And as the code is manipulating this black box mini-universe... *hits enter*
17:05:56 <Slereah> Is it MALBOLGE?
17:05:58 * asiekierka sees that the whole world turned into an internet-like matrix, where everyone can manipulate everything
17:06:09 <asiekierka> So you can make a malbolge parser for your parts
17:06:23 <asiekierka> use your imagiCAKEtion
17:06:33 * asiekierka makes a warp tool
17:06:50 * asiekierka uses a warp to teleport himself to... a game.
17:06:53 * Slereah makes a cake
17:06:57 <asiekierka> {{ What would be better, Spore or Portal? }}
17:07:10 <Slereah> Don't go to Spore
17:07:13 <Slereah> It's full of penises
17:07:18 <asiekierka> NO it's not
17:07:19 <asiekierka> i have it
17:07:21 <Slereah> But Portal has cake.
17:07:27 <tusho> spore has a buncha penises
17:07:31 <asiekierka> ...thecakeisalie
17:07:35 <asiekierka> also STOP
17:07:45 <tusho> Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis. Penis.
17:07:49 * tusho watches asiekierka be SCARRED FOR LIFE
17:07:52 <asiekierka> one more that and...
17:07:54 <tusho> Penis.
17:07:58 <Slereah> BUTT
17:07:58 -!- asiekierka has left (?).
17:08:01 <Slereah> :D
17:08:03 <tusho> lawl.
17:08:08 -!- asiekierka has joined.
17:08:10 <tusho> penis
17:08:16 <Slereah> asiekierka, are you in the closet? :o
17:08:28 * asiekierka goes to the warp to portal no matter what
17:08:38 <asiekierka> Sorry, but... Goodbye! :D
17:08:51 <asiekierka> I now learnt to be away from tusho
17:08:52 <asiekierka> so
17:08:54 <asiekierka> also
17:08:59 <tusho> Penis.
17:09:02 -!- asiekierka has quit.
17:09:10 <Slereah> :D
17:09:14 <tusho> it's like that bash quote where "fuck" made a guy's router kill irc
17:10:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (No route to host).
17:11:18 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
17:13:24 <psygnisfive> . . .
17:13:48 <psygnisfive> I know you all can see who i am
17:13:52 -!- psygnisfive has changed nick to asiekierka.
17:14:03 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit).
17:14:33 <Slereah> I couldn't and was going to propose him sexual intercourse
17:22:29 -!- olsner has joined.
17:43:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
17:55:05 <bsmntbombdood_> omg penis?
17:55:07 <tusho> yes
17:57:40 <bsmntbombdood_> i need to buy another one
17:58:13 * tusho gives bsmntbombdood_ a penis
17:58:33 <Slereah> YOU FOUND : 1 PENIS!
17:58:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
17:59:03 <tusho> *inventory*
17:59:06 <tusho> PENIS                 Qty. 7
17:59:15 <Slereah> That's a whole mess of dongs.
18:15:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:15:44 <ais523> <tusho>oh no
18:15:47 <tusho> :D
18:20:02 <ais523> tusho: what's with this edit war on Esolang?
18:20:08 <tusho> ais523: esco
18:20:19 <tusho> the esco guy keeps adding the links to all the pages, i keep removing them
18:20:21 <ais523> yes, I know
18:20:29 <ais523> edit warring is probably not the best way to solve this though
18:20:34 <ais523> maybe discussion would be better?
18:20:36 <tusho> ais523: I only removed them once
18:20:42 <tusho> after he put them back like months after I forgot about eso
18:20:45 <tusho> and yes, we are having a "discusison"
18:20:54 <tusho> (he has threatened to 'report me' and I have explained why they don't belon there)
18:20:55 <ais523> twice, total
18:20:56 <tusho> *belong
18:21:05 <tusho> ais523: yes
18:21:08 <tusho> but he didn't add them the first time
18:21:16 <tusho> another escoer (god, I can't believe there's more than one) did
18:21:23 <tusho> and that was months ago
18:25:17 -!- Corun has joined.
18:30:02 <oklobol> "to all the pages"?
18:32:34 <tusho> oklobol: every single esolang that esco implemented trivially & badly
18:35:43 <Slereah> 610000 on 1D Tetris
18:35:58 <ais523> Slereah: 1D Tetris?
18:36:14 <Slereah> http://www.tetris1d.org/tetris.php
18:38:59 <tusho> Slereah: you're up against:
18:38:59 <tusho> 1.
18:38:59 <tusho> 
18:39:00 <tusho> NKWM
18:39:00 <tusho> 
18:39:00 <tusho> 18549200
18:39:02 <tusho> 
18:39:04 <tusho> 18549200
18:39:17 <tusho> ...
18:39:17 <tusho> <td><p><input type="hidden" id="savescore" name="savescore" value="400">
18:39:23 <Slereah> Well, all I have to do really is not to crash
18:39:54 <ais523> by the way, I've continued working on gcc-bf
18:40:13 <ais523> linker's done, libc and libm are done but not tested, compiler's mostly done, assembler's hardly started
18:40:18 <tusho> wo
18:40:18 <tusho> w
18:40:20 <tusho> :P
18:40:21 <ais523> I even implemented a filesystem (although haven't tested it)
18:40:33 <ais523> keeping all the files in memory in malloced space
18:41:01 <tusho> "no more cheating."
18:41:02 <tusho> d'aw
18:41:04 <tusho> w
18:41:12 <tusho> wait
18:41:14 <tusho> I can beat that
18:41:20 <tusho> FIREBUG GO
18:43:09 <tusho> wtf
18:43:15 <tusho> i haxxx'd it successfully but no go
18:43:16 <tusho> :(
18:46:49 -!- sebbu2 has quit (No route to host).
18:48:30 <tusho> ais523: may interest you: i am working on a web-based, multiplayer nethack
18:48:34 <tusho> why, i don't know
18:48:42 <ais523> tusho: I've been thinking about multiplayer nethack
18:48:51 <ais523> and decided that it would either be very boring or unlike the original
18:48:55 <tusho> yes, since mine is _massively_ multiplayer i've had to make it, err, not nethack
18:49:00 <tusho> it looks like nethack, but it's not turn based
18:49:09 <tusho> the game-made stuff only moves once every N, yes
18:49:11 <tusho> and it does it all at once
18:49:13 <ais523> ah, not turn based is one unlike way to make a multiplayer version
18:49:16 <tusho> but players move as they wish
18:49:31 <tusho> still, it looks like nethack
18:49:34 <tusho> and is hopefully similar enough
18:50:39 * ais523 wonders why they get so much spam in German nowadays
18:50:52 <tusho> ais523: heh ditto
18:50:54 <ais523> I know enough German to tell it's spam, but not to know exactly what it's saying
18:50:56 <tusho> mostly on friends-of-brainfuck which is .de
18:51:11 <ais523> that's not the reason for me
18:52:17 * tusho tries to figure out to make an element have 0-width in css while still being visible
18:52:25 <tusho> i.e. collapse it so that the stuff in front of it goes behind it
18:52:29 <tusho> (for the nametags on other players)
18:53:23 <tusho> ah
18:53:25 <tusho> margin-right: -100%
18:53:54 <tusho> hmm
18:53:55 <tusho> not quite
18:54:16 <oklobol> esco's interps do not work then?
18:54:28 <oklobol> or they just suck ass?
18:54:32 <tusho> oklobol: they suck ass to the Nth degree
18:54:40 <oklobol> i see, i see
18:54:41 <tusho> they're the trivial, i just-discovered-esolangs type
18:54:46 <tusho> and then they're compounded by the stupidest idea ever:
18:54:53 <tusho> hey why not put them all in ONE EXECUTABLE?!
18:54:58 <tusho> it's like busybox
18:55:00 <tusho> except busybox has a reason
18:55:03 <tusho> and they don't
18:55:05 <tusho> and also busybox doesn't suck.
18:56:35 <oklobol> i don't know wha busybox is
18:56:45 <oklobol> what langs has esco implemented?
18:57:26 <tusho> brainfuck, like 2 other boring ones
18:57:29 <tusho> and 2 brainfuck cyphers
18:57:48 <tusho> here
18:58:07 <tusho> brainfuck,ook!(bf cypher),spoon(bf cypher),hq9+,whitespace,byter
18:58:19 <tusho> so...three "real" languages (all of whose implementations are incredibly bad)
18:58:25 <tusho> one joke (hq9+)
18:58:29 <tusho> and two trivial brainfuck cyphers
18:58:32 <tusho> hooorayyyy
18:59:03 <ais523> incidentally, based on my work on gcc-bf, I've been thinking about writing an incredibly fast BF interp that beats all the existing incredibly fast BF interps
18:59:14 <ais523> by analysing the program to work out what tape elements it's using for what
18:59:19 <tusho> ais523: if you do can I spam you with tons of ideas for optimizations?
18:59:22 <ais523> and where the pointer is at any given moment of times
18:59:24 <ais523> tusho: yes
18:59:30 <tusho> ais523: awesome
18:59:31 <ais523> although I haven't started it yet, or even thought about it much
18:59:34 <ais523> and won't do it just now
18:59:41 <tusho> ais523: well, make sure to check out bff.c and mazonka's bf4.c
18:59:46 <tusho> especially bf4.c's linear loop stuff
18:59:54 <tusho> it seems to reduce all the number-generators to just a SET
19:00:20 <oklobol> ais523: wanna compete?
19:00:29 <ais523> oklobol: not right now, maybe later though
19:00:38 <ais523> <tusho> it seems to reduce all the number-generators to just a SET
19:00:45 <ais523> that's way below the sort of optimisations I was planning
19:00:48 <oklobol> well, basically that would mean i'd start making a bf interp too.
19:00:57 <tusho> ais523: well, yes, but it has tons of stuff like that
19:01:00 <tusho> and is also unreadable
19:01:01 <tusho> :^)
19:01:23 -!- sebbu has joined.
19:01:29 <ais523> mine would, for instance, realise that you were maintaining every 6th cell as a zero
19:01:41 <oklobol> reducing all number-generators to a set? does that mean "all balanced loops"?
19:02:07 <ais523> oklobol: I was planning to do unbalanced loops too
19:02:10 <ais523> that's harder though
19:02:25 <ais523> but I think I'll need a blazingly fast interp to test gcc-bf, the way it's going
19:02:27 <ais523> libc is massive
19:02:41 <ais523> and even though my linker only links the parts it needs, it's still pretty bloaty even for simple programs
19:02:48 <ais523> when stdio streams are involved
19:04:01 <tusho> ais523: bf4 does all unbalanced loops
19:04:01 <tusho> yes
19:04:14 <tusho> ais523: also ... shouldn't you write a hyper-optimizing ->asm compiler?
19:04:16 <tusho> ooh
19:04:20 <tusho> hyper-optimizing -> llvm
19:04:21 <oklobol> you can't do all unbalanced loops :P
19:04:29 <tusho> so you can have all the crazy assembly tricks
19:04:32 <tusho> but stay portable
19:04:35 <tusho> oklobol: i mean, balanced
19:04:35 <ais523> tusho: or -> gimple, and have it as a gcc front end?
19:04:46 <tusho> ais523: no, that is too crazy :P
19:04:52 <tusho> plus llvm does more holyshit optimizations, I believe
19:04:55 <tusho> so that'll be beneficial
19:05:10 <ais523> tusho: blue-skies idea: have INTERCAL both as a front end and as a back end to gcc
19:05:14 <tusho> EEEEEEK
19:05:51 <ais523> translating -> GENERIC is arguably easier than translating -> C, and gcc has a gimplifier for GENERIC already
19:06:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
19:07:34 -!- Slereah has joined.
19:07:43 <Slereah> Remember that thing I said about needing not to crash?
19:09:20 <tusho> hmm
19:09:31 <tusho> ais523: so you've actually played nethack: should you be able to select another player and see info about them?
19:09:34 <tusho> or just their name hovering beside them
19:09:57 <ais523> tusho: not without a stethoscope
19:10:01 <ais523> you should be able to tell class
19:10:05 <ais523> and possibly level
19:10:07 <ais523> and that's about it
19:10:13 <ais523> oh, and rae
19:10:13 <tusho> well, that kind of stuff is coming later :P
19:10:15 <ais523> s/rae/race/
19:10:17 <ais523> that's obvious
19:10:24 <tusho> target for now:
19:10:27 <ais523> it'll effect whether they show up as @ or h
19:10:30 <ais523> or G
19:10:30 <tusho> you can move around a room
19:10:37 <tusho> and bash into people
19:10:38 <tusho> :D
19:10:43 <tusho> ais523: hmm, i've only ever seen @?
19:10:57 <ais523> tusho: @=human/elf, h=dwarf, G=gnome (among other things, except for the gnome)
19:11:15 <tusho> ah
19:11:21 <tusho> so, always just @ for now
19:11:26 <tusho> until that SHAMCNY stuff appears
19:13:20 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
19:15:56 <tusho> wow, don woods made advent?
19:16:03 <ais523> tusho: yes
19:16:08 <ais523> don't you read alt.lang.intercal
19:16:13 <tusho> not really.
19:16:17 <ais523> not just him though, a couple of other people too
19:16:41 <ais523> strangely enough, the person mentioning it on a.l.i suggested writing a bf backend to gcc a couple of days /after/ I started work on it...
19:22:26 * tusho giggles at "new Ground"
19:26:43 -!- oklopol has joined.
19:26:44 -!- oklobol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:28:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
19:30:14 <tusho> ais523: how often do you think a game step should be?
19:30:17 <tusho> .5 seconds?
19:30:26 <ais523> tusho: not nearly that fast
19:30:37 <tusho> 1 second?
19:30:39 <ais523> people often spend hours over a game step in genuine Nethack
19:30:47 <tusho> this isn't genuine nethack
19:30:47 <tusho> :D
19:31:25 <ais523> tusho: I suggest at least giving people a chance to check their inventory
19:31:36 <ais523> say every 20 steps, waiting for a minute or so so people can do non-time-consuming things
19:31:50 <tusho> ais523: i'm thinking of having the inventory always available
19:31:53 <ais523> another example: dropping all your un-BCUd stuff on an altar takes only one turn
19:32:10 <tusho> anyway, the game is going to be like nethack on asynchronicity and crack
19:32:11 <ais523> which is just DX<ret>.<ret> if you know what you're doing
19:32:18 <ais523> but still that takes a while to type
19:32:23 <tusho> having it pause for a minute would kill it
19:32:34 <tusho> ais523: well yea you'd be able to type between turns
19:32:36 <tusho> things would just keep moving
19:32:42 <tusho> even when the turn isn't going, others can still move too
19:32:48 <tusho> and loot you or similar
19:35:02 <tusho> so i think i'll go with 1sec
19:36:02 <ais523> tusho: I don't think it's even possible to give the commands to attack with a reach weapon in 1 second
19:36:27 <tusho> ais523: then you'd take more than one term to perform the action
19:36:40 <ais523> that would make reach weapons rubbish rather than annoying
19:36:41 <tusho> (although i'll be simplifying the bindings ofc)
19:36:49 <tusho> (massively)
19:38:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:38:12 -!- oklobol has joined.
19:38:34 <tusho> ais523: but in a multiplayer environment, delaying e.g. 5 seconds would be unusable
19:38:42 <tusho> you'd all be jittering about quickly while nothing happens
19:38:57 <ais523> not really, you're probably used to playing near the start of the game where there are long periods where nothing happens
19:39:09 <tusho> ais523: nothing can happen mid-ter
19:39:09 <ais523> but later in the game is basically impossible without spending a lot of time on each move
19:39:10 <tusho> m
19:39:27 <tusho> so for 5 seconds, the whole game would stop
19:39:31 <tusho> for everyone
19:39:40 <tusho> and that would kind of suck, no regular nethack wouldn't work with 1sec
19:39:42 <tusho> but it's not
19:39:51 <ais523> that do you mean "nothing can happen mid-term"?
19:39:53 <ais523> s/that/what/
19:40:09 <tusho> because it'd just be players moving somewhere or sitting still typing a command
19:40:16 <tusho> and then they'd have to wait until the 5 seconds were up
19:40:18 <tusho> before it took effect
19:40:26 <tusho> remember, everyone is doing everything at the same time
19:40:34 <tusho> so the turns have to happen at the same time for everyone
19:41:16 <ais523> tusho: they can still queue commands beforehand
19:41:20 <tusho> yes, they can
19:41:23 <ais523> and a lot of things in Nethack take up no turns
19:41:33 <ais523> such as using a stethoscope, or starting to engrave and then cancelling
19:41:46 <tusho> the point is the only kind of turn I can have is one that happens every N seconds, no matter what, for everyone
19:42:11 <ais523> tusho: what if multiple people try to move onto the same square? That would be chaos
19:42:22 <tusho> ais523: well, moves don't take up a turn
19:42:24 <ais523> or one person raises a drawbridge at the same time another person lowers the same drawbridge
19:42:27 <tusho> so one would get there first
19:42:30 <tusho> and the other would bash into them
19:42:47 <tusho> (moves can't take up a turn, or it'd be slower than a snail)
19:44:06 <ais523> tusho: what about having it completely real-time, don't have turns at all but instead have action timeouts
19:44:26 <ais523> e.g. if you move, you can't move again for a second (2/3 a second if fast, 1/3 a second if very fast)
19:44:29 <tusho> ais523: well, I want all the enemies &etc to move at the same time
19:44:36 <ais523> pets?
19:44:43 <tusho> no
19:44:46 <tusho> well
19:44:46 <tusho> yes
19:44:48 <tusho> yes
19:44:55 <tusho> hmm
19:44:56 <tusho> no
19:45:03 <ais523> also different monsters have different speeds
19:45:04 <tusho> because if you moved too far it'd just not be able to catch up to you
19:45:09 <tusho> ais523: well, yes
19:45:11 <tusho> but you know what i mean
19:45:13 <tusho> the general feel of it
19:45:15 <ais523> warhorses are faster than dragons, which are faster than lichens
19:45:23 <tusho> i am just calling the period where the 1-turn-moving monsters are still a 'turn'
19:45:31 <Slereah> How fast are lichens
19:45:32 <tusho> even though everything else is realtime
19:45:36 <Slereah> 0 per turn?
19:45:41 <ais523> Slereah: incredibly slow, but they still have a movement speed, strangely
19:45:49 <ais523> they're faster than yellow moulds, which AFAICT don't move
19:45:52 <Slereah> What are we talking about, too
19:46:04 <ais523> Slereah: Nethack, or tusho's version thereof
19:46:13 <Slereah> o
19:46:32 <tusho> ha i just realised how appropriate the name "NEThack" is
19:46:33 <tusho> for this
19:46:51 <ais523> tusho: NetHack was invented by Usenet, that's what distinguishes it from Hack
19:46:54 <tusho> yes
19:46:56 <tusho> but still ;)
19:46:59 <Slereah> *Nutsack
19:47:22 <tusho> it's called wackem though (nethack -> whack (w for web) -> whackmm (massively multiplayer) -> whackem (pronouncable and meaningful))
19:47:37 <tusho> hmm seems it's actually wackem
19:47:40 <tusho> for shortness, presumably
19:55:12 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
19:55:49 <ais523> hi AnMaster
19:55:54 <AnMaster> tusho, whack'em? ;)
19:56:05 <tusho> Wackem. :P
19:56:20 <tusho> AnMaster: it's my WIP online, massively multiplayer sort-of-like-nethack
19:56:53 <AnMaster> ais523, there are less changes now I suspect to get parts of cfunge to work under cygwin, Deewiant managed to make it work partially
19:57:17 <AnMaster> some fingerprints won't work, and you will get lot of weird warnings
20:00:53 -!- CO2Games has quit ("And I invented doors, no joke!").
20:05:33 <AnMaster> ais523, any news? feather maybe?
20:05:42 <ais523> AnMaster: I've been working on gcc-bf
20:05:48 <ais523> and nothing else, really
20:05:50 <AnMaster> ah progress?
20:06:09 <ais523> linker basically done, compiler mostly done but not finished, library done but not tested, assembler only just started
20:06:57 <AnMaster> ah
20:07:05 <AnMaster> ais523, so "hello world" doesn't work yet?
20:07:25 <ais523> AnMaster: nothing works yet, I'm doing this breadth-first rather than depth-first
20:07:31 <AnMaster> ok
20:07:57 <ais523> although if you compile hello world atm, you get a program with stdio and a lot of file stuff linked in, and some rows of +++++ that put a constant string Hello World into memory
20:08:33 <tusho> ais523: didn't use pdclib[sp]?
20:19:33 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:20:10 <tusho> ais523: can I have the source to your esolang adventure game?
20:20:13 <tusho> I want to do stuff with it, maybe.
20:20:22 <ais523> tusho: yes, it may take me a while to find it though
20:20:53 <tusho> hmm
20:21:07 <tusho> i'll probably write a generic "Expose a unix command via a webpage" thing.
20:21:11 <tusho> and put your adventure game up
20:21:16 <tusho> (like i did a while ago but less glitchy)_
20:21:18 <ais523> tusho: ah no, I found it
20:21:26 <ais523> I copied it to /home/ais523/esogame.c on Rutian
20:21:31 <ais523> you should be able to get it from there
20:21:41 <ais523> also note it's very unfinished atm and I haven't worked on it since you last saw it
20:22:34 <tusho> ais523: hmm...we need a filesharing system using scp, i run it far too much because you upload stuff there
20:22:41 <tusho> like, you could do 'rutian-give tusho file'
20:22:47 <tusho> and it'd upload it, notify me, and I could accept it
20:25:08 <tusho> ais523: well, I am going to write rutian-give and rutian-recieve-daemon
20:25:12 <tusho> i hope you are very excited.
20:25:22 <tusho> ah, wait
20:25:30 <tusho> ais523: you can't host a server, can you?
20:25:32 <tusho> due to firewalls
20:25:32 <AnMaster> ais523, esogame?
20:25:35 <AnMaster> desc?
20:25:36 * ais523 laughs at the typical tusho attitude
20:25:46 <tusho> wait
20:25:47 <ais523> AnMaster: a text adventure based on esolangs I started writing once
20:25:48 <tusho> what did i do that was typical of me
20:25:49 <ais523> it's very unfinished
20:25:53 <AnMaster> ais523, like?
20:25:57 <ais523> tusho: go off into writing a new program idea
20:26:09 <ais523> AnMaster: so far it has three puzzle areas, based on brainfuck, INTERCAL, and SMETANA
20:26:11 <tusho> ais523: i don't see how that's unique to me :P
20:26:17 <ais523> and you have to solve the puzzle to get through the area
20:26:26 <ais523> tusho: I didn't say it was, probably other people have the same attitude
20:26:35 <tusho> ais523: am i right re: servers though
20:26:36 <ais523> unfortunately none of the puzzle areas go anywhere yet
20:26:47 <ais523> tusho: yes, I don't have an always-on computer
20:26:56 <tusho> ais523: tjat
20:26:58 <tusho> that's not needed
20:27:00 <ais523> when this computer is on I can reverse-tunnel to rutian and host a server that way
20:27:01 <tusho> it's for transferring when they're online
20:27:03 <tusho> ah
20:27:07 <tusho> won't that be hosted on, er, rutian though?
20:27:10 <ais523> but not host a server locally due to firewalls
20:27:19 <tusho> it needs to be able to notify you in some way
20:27:27 <ais523> tusho: rutian will be the IP you use to connect, the reverse-tunnel sends the data to my computer
20:27:33 <tusho> probably via one of those 'make dialog with shell script' progs
20:27:36 <tusho> ais523: ah
20:27:41 <ais523> remember when 127.0.0.1:12345 on your computer connected to Apache on mine?
20:27:44 <tusho> will that be able to tell your computer to run xdialog or whatever it is?
20:27:55 <ais523> tusho: yes if the right software's running over here
20:28:01 <tusho> great
20:28:07 <tusho> so i just write it as if it's running on your machine
20:28:10 <ais523> yes
20:28:18 <ais523> and then I try to remember the syntax to set up a reverse tunnel
20:28:33 <AnMaster> hm
20:28:34 <tusho> great.
20:28:58 <tusho> its port shall be 19176 (ESO)
20:29:30 <tusho> ais523: you have ruby right
20:29:34 <tusho> ah, wait, it'll run on rutian
20:29:35 <tusho> great
20:29:39 <ais523> tusho: probably, I've never tried running it though
20:29:46 <ais523> if I don't then I can get it easily enough
20:32:29 <tusho> ais523: is there a command that reads passwords securely like ssh does then dumps it to stdout that you know of?
20:32:30 <tusho> that'd be useful.
20:33:00 <ais523> tusho: I think so, can't remember the syntax though, I'll look it up
20:35:14 <ais523> dialog --insecure --stdout --passwordbox Password: 8 80
20:35:22 <ais523> remove the --insecure if you don't even want it to echo asterisks
20:35:29 <ais523> it's a bit funky, though, dialog puts up a fake GUI
20:35:38 <ais523> it's what dpkg uses for prompts though
20:35:53 <tusho> oh, that stuff
20:35:55 <tusho> ugh, ok
20:36:01 <ais523> maybe there's another way
20:36:03 <ais523> probably is
20:36:06 <ais523> that's just the one I know offhand
20:37:01 <tusho> ais523: by the way, how do you think I should ask for confirmation of the transfer? i'm planning on using one of those "pop up a basic dialog in gtk/qt/cocoa/whatever"
20:37:02 <tusho> things
20:37:11 <tusho> and then if it's accepted a save as
20:37:35 <ais523> makes sense
20:38:35 <ais523> tusho: incidentally, #gcc seems to be one of those channels where if you're lucky you might get an answer after 5 hours
20:38:40 <AnMaster> what do you mean?
20:38:43 <tusho> inded
20:38:45 <AnMaster> a program to check password?
20:38:46 <tusho> *indeed
20:38:50 <tusho> AnMaster: no.
20:38:51 * AnMaster looks
20:38:53 <ais523> AnMaster: a program to input a string without echoing
20:38:55 <tusho> a program to let the user input a password securely
20:38:59 <fizzie> You can use something like "stty -echo; read; stty echo;", although it's a bit brittle and might too easily leave the terminal to a no-echoing mode.
20:39:00 <AnMaster> hm ok
20:39:03 <tusho> by the method ais523 said
20:39:33 <ais523> tusho: in bash: read -s; echo $REPLY
20:39:44 <tusho> aha
20:39:44 <ais523> that works for all passwords except -n
20:40:03 <ais523> read's a bash builtin, though, not a command accessible any other way
20:40:35 <tusho> ok, here's the model:
20:40:54 <tusho> scp-send server username file
20:40:56 <tusho> hmm
20:40:57 <tusho> no
20:41:01 <tusho> scp-send file username server
20:41:07 <tusho> 'scp-send foo.c tusho eso-std.org' reads best
20:41:08 <tusho> anyway
20:41:11 <ais523> tusho: what about sending more than one file?
20:41:12 <tusho> then that asks for your password
20:41:15 <ais523> arguably the file list should come last
20:41:22 <tusho> ais523: well, mine couldn't support that anyone
20:41:23 <tusho> *anyway
20:41:26 <tusho> due to the save as thing
20:41:28 <tusho> just tar it
20:41:29 <ais523> also, why not just secure it the same way ssh does?
20:41:33 <ais523> if you can ssh there, you can scp-send there
20:41:51 <tusho> ais523: uh, and how do you propose i hook into just one bit of ssh?
20:41:56 <ais523> I wouldn't input a password into something like that unless it was unique
20:42:01 <tusho> as far as I know, Net::SCP requires you to give stuff yourself
20:42:05 <ais523> tusho: you don't, you try to ssh to verify it's possible
20:42:09 <tusho> ah
20:42:25 <tusho> well, actually
20:42:27 <tusho> net::scp might do it
20:43:20 <tusho> ais523: well, anyway
20:43:29 <tusho> then it looks at /home/VICTIM/.scp-transfer
20:43:36 <tusho> if it's not there, it chokes and dies
20:43:42 <tusho> if it's there, then it should be of the form 'host:port'
20:43:49 <tusho> then it makes a connection to that
20:43:54 <tusho> and says 'yo, i gotsa file for you here'
20:44:06 <tusho> (after scping the file over to /home/SENDER/.scp-transfers/)
20:44:19 <tusho> and if the other user accepts it, the reciever daemon just scps it to the directory they specify
20:46:41 <tusho> brb
20:49:26 -!- GregorR has joined.
20:55:35 <AnMaster> about ssh
20:55:46 <AnMaster> I know there is some other ssh in python implementation
20:55:52 <AnMaster> that launchpad and others use for ssh
20:55:58 <AnMaster> like launchpad's bzr+ssh
20:56:08 <AnMaster> no idea if that is helpful in this case or not
21:02:07 <tusho> no
21:02:09 <tusho> i'm using ruby
21:02:57 <tusho> ais523:
21:03:02 <tusho> /opt/local/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/net-ssh-2.0.4/lib/net/ssh.rb:195:in `start': tusho (Net::SSH::AuthenticationFailed)
21:03:10 <tusho> so yea not sure how to make it prompt the console for that kind of stuff
21:03:17 <tusho> or use an ssh key
21:03:33 <ais523> not sure either
21:03:53 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
21:04:13 <tusho> # :passphrase => the passphrase to use when loading a private key (default is nil, for no passphrase)
21:04:13 <tusho> # :password => the password to use to login
21:04:15 <tusho> interesting
21:04:18 <tusho> I'll ask #ruby-lang.
21:04:23 <tusho> (They don't know that tusho==ehird. >:D)
21:04:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:06:24 <tusho> [[tusho, you can send a password as a parameter - no need for an interactive session]]
21:06:41 <tusho> I cannot wait for the day when people read
21:07:25 <tusho> Slereah: you crazy stalker of my about page
21:08:32 <Slereah> HOW DARE YOU READ MY WEBSITE
21:09:04 <tusho> :D
21:10:42 * oerjan stalks too
21:11:43 * tusho feels stalked
21:11:56 <tusho> (To be honest Slereah's stalking amounted to "adding me on MSN".)
21:12:12 <ais523> tusho: what, you use MSN? Heretic!
21:12:29 <tusho> ais523: Justification: everybody who uses a computer in the world and wants to talk to me who isn't in #esoteric
21:12:56 <ais523> tusho: teach them to use IRC, it's better than MSN for most things from what I know of MSN
21:13:06 <tusho> ais523: that would not happen
21:13:17 <tusho> besides, Adium does jabber and stuff too
21:13:21 <tusho> and makes all protocols look the same
21:13:21 <oerjan> i think my whole family is on MSN _except_ me
21:13:28 <tusho> so I could just pretend they use jabber
21:13:39 <ais523> MSN's just like IRC, except harder to use and has fewer features
21:13:45 <tusho> no
21:13:47 <tusho> it's just like jabber
21:13:48 <ais523> and doesn't have channels either
21:13:51 <ais523> tusho: well, yes
21:13:52 <tusho> except easier to use and has fewer features
21:14:04 <tusho> (jabber is _not_ easy to use for a non-techie)
21:14:10 <tusho> (unless in the form of Google Talk)
21:14:26 <tusho> (but most people don't know about google talk's desktop client so don't use it apart from through gmail)
21:14:29 <ais523> tusho: not easier, I've lost count of how many times I've gone into a cybercafe and found someone else's instance MSN Messenger still running because they couldn't figure out how to exit it
21:14:41 <tusho> ais523: but generally people don't _need_ to exit it
21:14:42 <ais523> and then left it running because I couldn't figure out how to exit it either
21:14:50 <tusho> right click the tray icon. click exit
21:15:01 <ais523> tusho: this cybercafe doesn't have tray icons
21:15:13 <tusho> ais523: it's in the menus
21:15:20 <tusho> (To make the menus visible, click the little arrow on the title bar.)
21:15:24 <tusho> File->Exit, specifically.
21:15:49 <ais523> tusho: yes, I've done that before when I could get to the menus, half the time though it just hides in the nonexistent system tray and pops up messages from nowhere and I can't close its source
21:16:04 <tusho> click the message's body to pop up an msn window
21:16:06 <tusho> then exit from ther
21:16:07 <tusho> e
21:16:13 <ais523> ah, thanks
21:16:19 <ais523> now why couldn't they make it simple and intuitive?
21:16:27 <tusho> ais523: they're idiots
21:16:41 <tusho> but anyway, for the stuff most people do with msn (Click a person, type a message, press enter) it's dead simple
21:16:47 <tusho> and therefore has huge market penetration
21:16:49 <tusho> and therefore everyone uses it
21:17:14 <ais523> strangely, IRC works almost the same way: double-click on "tusho" (it could be single-click in several clients), type the message, press enter
21:17:28 <tusho> ais523: no, irc works like this
21:17:38 <tusho> you open mIRC (Face it, the users of MSN will not use anything else)
21:17:52 <tusho> you go through the huge server list and pick one (<msn user> What has this got to do with talking to people?)
21:18:06 <tusho> a bunch of cryptic messages fly past and then a "JOIN CHANNNELLLL" box opens (<msn user> Channel? What? What is that list?)
21:18:08 <tusho> then you close it
21:18:24 <ais523> tusho: Konversation connects to irc.ubuntu.org by default
21:18:25 <tusho> then you type /query user (<msn user> /query? Wait, what is the user? Huh, I can't just click in a list?)
21:18:31 <ais523> and you need to actively change it to go elswehere
21:18:32 <tusho> then you type and hit enter
21:18:34 <tusho> and guess what?
21:18:39 <ais523> and you can easily create a list of people to click on
21:18:42 <tusho> You can't have fancy nicknames with spaces. No colours. No fonts.
21:18:47 <tusho> MSN users _like_ them, as annoying as they aer.
21:18:48 <tusho> *are
21:19:06 * Slereah is a MSN user :(((
21:19:07 <tusho> Just like how myspace users like customizing their profiles to look god-awful. It's a matter of identity.
21:19:20 <tusho> Slereah: here, have a hug *hugs*
21:19:26 <tusho> ais523: konversation?
21:19:30 <tusho> you are expecting msn users to be using linux?
21:19:53 <ais523> tusho: well, no, I'll just wait for KDE to become mainstream on Windows
21:19:54 <tusho> i don't think you're quite in tune with the technical ability & rabid familiarity-seeking of most people
21:20:05 <tusho> ais523: which will never happen
21:20:06 <tusho> :)
21:20:15 <ais523> should happen any day now, I reckon, given how bad the default Windows apps are (what default Windows apps...)
21:20:26 <tusho> and moreover, downloading a huge kde install and installing all that and setting it up and aaaaaaaaaa vs downloading one file and hitting 'next'...
21:20:51 <ais523> tusho: it would make more sense for computer manufacturers to preinstall some useful programs, after all all non-Windows OSes do
21:21:01 <tusho> ais523: we are talking in the realm of reality here
21:21:06 <tusho> "teach them to use IRC": not happening
21:21:15 <ais523> tusho: who teaches them to use MSN, though?
21:21:18 <tusho> ais523: nobody.
21:21:28 <ais523> at least I figured out how to use IRC by myself...
21:21:30 <tusho> they click 'download'. They press next a few times. A window pops up.
21:21:34 <tusho> They enter their username, and their password.
21:21:36 <tusho> They click sign in
21:21:43 <tusho> Then they can click a persons name and type back and forth.
21:21:52 <ais523> (and that was very easy, I just clicked on a link to an IRC channel on Esolang the first time, and it opened up in Chatzilla)
21:21:57 <tusho> If they happen to click the thing labeled 'Font' (Of course they will, all their friends have fancy fonts) they can set it like Word.
21:22:00 <tusho> That's it.
21:22:07 <ais523> it asked for a username (not even a password), and I was connected
21:22:12 <tusho> Oh, and MSN auto-remembers passwords.
21:22:16 <tusho> and auto-starts at startup
21:22:25 <tusho> So from then on, the process is 1. Click a person's name 2. Type back and forth
21:23:00 <ais523> so in other words my discovery seemed easier, although it did rather rely on the Mozilla suite coincidentally being installed on that computer (N.B. this is pre-Firefox, it was just Mozilla back then)
21:23:08 <ais523> your process sounds very complicated compared to mine
21:23:18 -!- LinuS has joined.
21:23:26 <tusho> ais523: i really, really don't think you will ever be able to comprehend how the mind of a regular computer user works
21:23:39 <ais523> possibly
21:23:55 <ais523> but there isn't anything much simpler than clicking on a link and it Just Working
21:24:04 <tusho> so i'll just tell you the results of being in their shoes (having intimately known their computer habits by one being one and by seeing them in action): IRC or Jabber will never, ever be as easy for them as using MSN
21:24:06 <ais523> regular computer users jump through many more hoops than that
21:24:47 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers5/1220903957499.jpg
21:24:51 <Slereah> WHAT WILL HAPPEN
21:25:03 <tusho> His nose will grow now.
21:26:33 <oerjan> his legs will shrink.  if i remember correctly from the original story.
21:27:17 <oerjan> (The fairy said there were two kinds of lies, those with short legs and those with long noses)
21:27:49 <Slereah> Are self referential paradox short legged?
21:28:29 <AnMaster> hm
21:28:31 <AnMaster> night
21:30:53 <ais523> night
21:32:31 <tusho> night
21:33:14 <oerjan> knight
21:33:25 <tusho> ndamnit oerjan you broke the chainight
21:34:07 <oerjan> i didn't want to imply that i was leaving yet
21:34:38 <tusho> i'm not
21:34:41 <tusho> but i was saying night to AnMaster
21:35:42 <lament> what happens if you say "My nose is not getting shorter?"
21:37:32 <tusho> oh wow, I just got that image
21:37:33 <tusho> :|
21:39:46 <tusho> ...
21:44:18 <tusho> ais523: is ssh even needed?
21:44:26 <tusho> couldn't it just telnet to me directly
21:44:28 <ais523> tusho: depends on what you're trying to do
21:44:32 <tusho> and have a hardcoded list of people:ip
21:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | three bytes to form one rgb?.
21:46:05 <tusho> :)
21:46:09 <tusho> ais523: just the transfer thing
21:46:31 <ais523> oh and hi fungot, optbot
21:46:32 <optbot> ais523: uhm ^^
21:46:32 <fungot> ais523: ( ok), then i say ' gets the current stack
21:48:26 <tusho> hmm
21:48:31 <tusho> that'd be an interesting befunge extension
21:48:36 <tusho> (or whatever other stack language)
21:48:41 <tusho> add first class stacks, then '
21:48:45 <tusho> which pushes the stack to the stack
21:48:50 <tusho> (The stack pre-push, obviously)
21:49:05 <tusho> (Or not pre-push: Make it update with the stack)
21:50:05 * oerjan suddenly wonders: can "first class" be first class?
21:50:26 <ais523> oerjan: I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I hope it does
21:51:12 <tusho> ais523: that's what I think about most things in #esoteric...
21:52:12 <tusho> i think we might be the friendliest programming channel there is
21:52:15 <tusho> next to #haskell
21:52:31 <tusho> i've seen a few rows in #haskell, just minor though
21:52:47 <ais523> there have been rows here too, but none of them have been on-topic
21:52:55 <tusho> the only rows we have are between well-established users
21:52:59 <tusho> (mostly, one of them is me)
21:53:52 <tusho> and generally they're consistent
21:54:00 <tusho> i mainly argue with psygnisfive and AnMaster
21:54:03 <tusho> well
21:54:05 <tusho> I mainly row with them
21:54:13 <tusho> i argue with ais523, but not in the same way
21:55:23 <AnMaster> tusho, maybe try being nice for once?
21:55:42 <tusho> AnMaster: i could say the same for you with how you act in the arguments
21:55:49 <tusho> besides, i am nice most of the time
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22:12:59 <LinuS> have you succeded in killing melap yet?
22:13:29 <LinuS> btw, had an idea for another eso lang.. doubleCheck(), basically you have to write every instruction, function parameters, etc
22:13:31 <LinuS> at least twice :P
22:13:51 <tusho> melap?
22:14:57 <LinuS> yeah, the guy you always complain about, the one on the wiki
22:15:05 <LinuS> i may not speak a lot, but i sometimes read
22:15:10 <LinuS> :P
22:15:13 <tusho> *melab
22:15:17 <LinuS> yeah well
22:15:18 <LinuS> him
22:15:19 <LinuS> :D
22:15:21 <tusho> i've only complained about him since yesterday
22:15:21 <tusho> :P
22:15:29 <tusho> well
22:15:36 <tusho> i had a laugh at his sprawling, huge user subpages beforehand
22:15:37 <tusho> but that was ages ago
22:16:03 <oerjan> billions and billions
22:19:24 <ais523> [22:18] <leogorerd> eh, I really don't like esoteric languages
22:19:24 <ais523> [22:18] <leogorerd> they tend to be annoying and can be done easier with other languages
22:19:39 <tusho> ...
22:19:43 <tusho> ais523: where is that from
22:19:59 <ais523> #nethack, somehow the conversation there got round to INTERCAL
22:21:07 <oklobol> o
22:21:33 <oerjan> with all the strange features coming into INTERCAL there'll just have to be some killer app it ends up being really good at
22:21:44 <ais523> oerjan: bit-reversal is one well-known one
22:21:51 <tusho> ais523: i don't seem to have convinced him
22:21:53 <ais523> it's slightly shorter in INTERCAL than in C
22:22:03 <ais523> and that's INTERCAL-72, no funky features needed
22:22:18 <oerjan> oko
22:22:19 <tusho> "yeah, I was thinking of possibly designing something for my senior design project next year, but then I used brainfuck and changed my mind"
22:22:22 <tusho> is that meant to make sense?
22:22:34 <ais523> as for modern INTERCAL, I went and wrote a continuation library in it in 24 hours, despite continuations not being part of the language, that should give you some clue as to its power
22:22:45 <ais523> tusho: probably
22:22:53 <tusho> ais523: does it?
22:23:10 <ais523> tusho: I think so, it looks like something that makes sens but is out of context
22:23:24 <tusho> ais523: i wonder if he realises what channel he is in
22:23:53 <ais523> tusho: arrgh, the last few comments make me want to make nethack into an esolang now
22:24:02 <ais523> you know, set up a level so that the AI does computation
22:24:04 <tusho> ais523: DO IT
22:24:19 <ais523> tusho: I need to figure out how first
22:24:27 <ais523> I used to do that sort of conversion all the time
22:24:36 <ais523> normally I implemented noughts-and-crosses, then stopped
22:24:39 <ais523> because it's pretty easy
22:25:30 <tusho> ._;
22:25:41 <tusho> a combination of ._., ;_; and o_O
22:25:49 <ais523> tusho: the floor, then an altar, then a shark or other water creature?
22:26:22 <tusho> ais523: it's a face
22:26:35 <tusho> o_O, but with the ._. eyes and the ;_; tears
22:26:36 <tusho> ._;
22:26:36 <ais523> tusho: nethack strikes me as being a great example program to get working on gcc-bf
22:26:43 <tusho> ais523: doesn't it use ncurses or some shit
22:26:45 <ais523> you'd just need an unbuffering interpreter
22:26:48 <ais523> tusho: translate ncurses too
22:26:56 <tusho> ais523: doesn't it use ioctl
22:26:57 <tusho> and stuff like tht
22:26:59 <ais523> it's just outputting and inputting characters, of course
22:27:01 <tusho> (ncurses)
22:27:04 <ais523> and no, it uses termcap
22:27:11 <ais523> which just consults files to determine what to output
22:27:11 <ais523> I think
22:27:19 <tusho> how can it consult a file
22:27:25 <ais523> tusho: I have a filesystem implemented
22:27:27 <ais523> in gcc-bf
22:27:29 <tusho> ah
22:27:30 <ais523> on the tape
22:27:50 <ais523> that's at the ABI level, I can't translate it to brainfuck /yet/...
22:28:11 <ais523> ABI's designed to be pretty easy to translate though, I just need to get round to writing idioms
22:28:29 <ais523> and figuring out how to sensibly multiply and divide 64-bit numbers in 8-bit brainfuck
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22:33:00 <tusho> that channel is weird.
22:33:00 <tusho> :D
22:33:08 <ais523> tusho: in what way?
22:33:14 <tusho> i dunno
22:38:54 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sė, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi.").
22:40:09 <ais523> [22:00] --> raylu has joined this channel (i=raylu@128.237.96.181).
22:40:09 <ais523> [22:39] <raylu> I will /part.
22:40:09 <ais523> [22:39] <-- raylu has left this channel.
22:40:13 <ais523> that was in #irp
22:40:16 <ais523> how strange!
22:41:21 <oerjan> self-referential IRP, it's the future!
22:41:54 <tusho> speech acts
22:41:56 <tusho> I part the channel
22:41:57 <tusho> /part
22:42:12 <ais523> tusho: by the way, my filesystem is very simple: it allows all characters but NUL in filenames, but has no directories or permissions or anything like that
22:42:20 <tusho> ais523: why no NUL
22:42:21 <tusho> :(
22:42:54 <ais523> tusho: end-of-string in C
22:43:05 <tusho> yes but :|
22:43:08 <ais523> no way to pass strings containing NUL to fopen and suchlike
22:43:13 <tusho> well, ok
22:43:18 <tusho> ais523: when you do add directories
22:43:20 <ais523> so no point in supporting them as there'd be no way to use them
22:43:20 <tusho> add ESCAPE CHARACTERS
22:43:23 <tusho> so you can have / in filenames
22:43:33 <tusho> say you have a project called In/Out
22:43:35 <tusho> In\/Out/foo
22:43:38 <ais523> tusho: you are possibly overthinking this...
22:43:47 <tusho> In\\/Out/foo <-- foo from Out from In\
22:43:49 <tusho> ais523: NO
22:43:52 <tusho> it would be AWESOME
22:44:20 <ais523> the only purpose of this is to keep C's standard library things like fopen happy, and to keep programs which expect a filesystem happy
22:44:31 <ais523> I'm aiming for portability to as many C programs as possible, which is why int is 32 bits
22:44:32 <tusho> ais523: um, tons of things use directories
22:44:42 <tusho> so when you do implement them, add my awesome.
22:44:46 <ais523> tusho: yes, unfortunately, most programs can live without them though I think
22:44:52 <tusho> i doubt it
22:44:55 <tusho> not useful ones, at least
22:44:59 <tusho> opendir is incredibly common
22:45:30 <ais523> tusho: I don't think nethack uses it
22:45:37 <ais523> nor does C-INTERCAL, although it needs files to exist
22:45:38 <tusho> ls. (duh)
22:45:40 <tusho> git.
22:45:44 <tusho> vi
22:46:00 <tusho> i could go on but those are some obvious ones
22:46:02 <ais523> tusho: I think it would be easy enough to port vi to a directoriless file system
22:46:06 <tusho> (well, vi just checks for directoriness)
22:46:13 <tusho> (vim+netrw...)
22:46:14 <ais523> and I was talking about programs that don't need a filesystem really
22:46:17 <ais523> like nethack
22:46:24 <tusho> ais523: you should aim for the top
22:46:26 <tusho> >:D
22:46:27 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
22:46:30 <ais523> nothing about it apart from the save intrinsically needs a filesystem
22:46:43 <ais523> and if we're going that root I may as well just port Linux and have done with it
22:47:04 <tusho> ais523: YES
22:47:12 <tusho> make the kernel compile with gcc-bf
22:47:15 <tusho> DO IT NOW
22:47:19 <ais523> tusho: a few things at a time
22:47:25 <tusho> i specified "NOW"
22:47:26 <tusho> :D
22:47:33 <ais523> I haven't even written any of the assembler apart from loading constants into memory yet...
22:47:53 <ais523> (by the way I thought of trying to put constant strings into code rather than tape, but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth)
22:53:19 <tusho> 666666666666666315
22:53:21 <tusho> 56
22:53:25 <ais523> 9
22:53:53 <tusho> 121212121212121212121245
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22:56:53 <tusho> http://www.webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/
22:57:15 <ais523> ah, an explanation of why all browsers claim to be Mozilla?
22:57:47 <tusho> all browsers claim to be everything these days :P
22:59:12 <ais523> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/525.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/0.2.149.27 Safari/525.13
22:59:15 <ais523> oh dear...
22:59:21 <tusho> yep
22:59:42 <ais523> so what is it based on? WebKit? But not the Apple version?
22:59:51 <tusho> just webkit
22:59:54 <tusho> but they wrote their own drawing layer
23:00:02 <tusho> as the one safari/win uses uses internal apple apis
23:00:04 <tusho> and is closed source
23:00:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:56 <ais523> tusho: I just bookmarked that web page, well done
23:01:06 <tusho> yay :P
23:18:26 -!- ais523 has quit ("9").
23:36:39 <Slereah> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
23:36:41 <Slereah> VOTE FOR HIM
23:45:16 <tusho> brilliant
23:48:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").