←2008-08-15 2008-08-16 2008-08-17→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:00:03 <psygnisfive> noones going to actually GO to it
00:00:08 <tusho> psygnisfive: i beg to differ
00:00:24 <psygnisfive> i deny you your differing.
00:00:35 <tusho> psygnisfive: it started last month and has 16 members, most of which are active
00:00:41 <tusho> and it gets a healthy stream of visits each day
00:00:45 <psygnisfive> what IS tentaclerapture, btw?
00:00:47 <tusho> and more members come in every few days
00:00:52 <tusho> and I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
00:01:00 <tusho> and no tentacles would be involved.
00:01:09 -!- nice_ka has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe.
00:01:33 <psygnisfive> D:
00:01:45 <psygnisfive> ehird/nomads doesnt work as a un/pw combination!
00:01:46 <psygnisfive> lame.
00:02:05 <tusho> that would be tusho, anyway
00:02:08 <tusho> but nomads isn't my password :p
00:02:10 <tusho> it's *shot*
00:02:17 <tusho> damn, and I was just about to tell you my password
00:02:19 <tusho> which is *shot*
00:02:20 <psygnisfive> what is tentacle rapture? :|
00:02:27 <tusho> psygnisfive: Secret, that's what.
00:02:31 <psygnisfive> :o
00:02:33 <psygnisfive> awesome.
00:02:45 <tusho> Well, the domain isn't secret.
00:02:51 <tusho> Access beyond the login page is.
00:05:50 <tusho> Well, access can't be "secret", more _the thing behind the login page_ is secret
00:05:55 <tusho> and can only be gained through access
00:06:54 <tusho> Hmm.
00:06:59 <tusho> I wonder if anyone has 'password' as their password.
00:07:11 <psygnisfive> if they do, they should be shot.
00:07:14 <tusho> That'd probably be ban-worthy. (Except not really. I'd just change it.)
00:07:20 <tusho> (And slap them if I ever meet them in person.)
00:07:35 <psygnisfive> so tell me, seriously, whats tr for
00:07:42 <tusho> Being secret.
00:07:44 <psygnisfive> besides hosting pictures of your pedobate self?
00:08:04 <tusho> (And my comics.)
00:08:10 <tusho> Well, the only thing I can tell you is what you already know.
00:08:13 <tusho> Everything on the login page. :P
00:08:17 <psygnisfive> you has comics
00:08:17 <psygnisfive> ?
00:08:25 <tusho> http://tentaclerapture.com/milkweasal/1
00:08:34 <tusho> if you don't laugh at each and every one of them you're mentally damaged
00:08:56 <tusho> p.s. yes I know it's spelt weasel
00:09:01 <tusho> weasals are the exact opposite of weasels.
00:09:19 <psygnisfive> i dont get the norway one :O
00:09:24 <tusho> also, if you don't find some of them funny, say "glass plate" then look at it again
00:09:27 <tusho> you should burst into flames.
00:09:28 <tusho> and laughter.
00:09:41 <psygnisfive> i dont get it :(
00:09:58 <tusho> psygnisfive: Then you must be mentally damaged! :p
00:10:04 <psygnisfive> oh very
00:10:11 <tusho> yeah
00:10:13 <tusho> we should lock you up
00:10:20 <tusho> maybe you'll laugh at #3
00:10:24 <tusho> it is hilarious after all
00:10:39 <psygnisfive> it all looks like just.. art.
00:10:41 <psygnisfive> not comic
00:11:40 <tusho> that's what rodger said (see #4)
00:11:42 <tusho> but then
00:11:44 <tusho> I bought a comic license
00:11:54 <tusho> it costs £5,000,000 and it lets you call one thing you own a comic
00:12:03 <psygnisfive> ha :)
00:12:03 <tusho> plus it's pretty hilarious so there
00:12:43 <psygnisfive> i dont get 3 :D
00:12:54 <tusho> i see a slight pattern in this
00:12:54 <tusho> :D
00:13:09 <psygnisfive> fuck
00:13:15 <psygnisfive> i killed the dock and now it wont restart
00:13:24 <tusho> psygnisfive: open terminal, open -a Dock?
00:13:34 <psygnisfive> i cant get to the terminal!
00:13:38 <tusho> psygnisfive: yes you can
00:13:42 <tusho> desktop -> harddrive
00:13:47 <tusho> -> applications -> utilities -> terminal
00:13:49 <tusho> open -a Dock
00:13:50 <tusho> voila
00:13:52 <psygnisfive> i cant get to the harddrive since its not on my desktop
00:13:59 <psygnisfive> but i do have a way to get to the terminal, i remembered
00:14:01 <psygnisfive> i have quicksilver
00:14:02 <psygnisfive> :D
00:14:06 <tusho> psygnisfive: or click desktop, cmd-n
00:14:15 <psygnisfive> but my harddrive isnt on the desktop
00:14:25 <tusho> psygnisfive: it doesn't need to be
00:14:28 <tusho> desktop focuses finder
00:14:31 <tusho> cmd-n in finder opens hd
00:14:33 <tusho> well
00:14:34 <tusho> opens ~
00:14:34 <psygnisfive> oh youre right
00:14:38 <psygnisfive> well no matter
00:14:41 <psygnisfive> i have QS
00:14:45 <psygnisfive> i forgot it did :X
00:14:57 <tusho> oh, and if you really want to know what TR is, then the login page should be helpful
00:15:25 <psygnisfive> rodger-style riddlegame!?
00:15:55 <tusho> no...
00:15:58 <tusho> just look at the damn login page
00:15:59 <tusho> :P
00:16:40 <psygnisfive> i am D:
00:16:57 <tusho> psygnisfive: are you blind or something
00:16:59 <tusho> look at ALL of it
00:17:00 <tusho> :P
00:17:19 <psygnisfive> i am! its just a login form and some copyright stuff
00:17:31 <tusho> so examine both parts
00:17:49 <psygnisfive> "Lussumo Vanilla, Swell, and People Copyright © 2001-2006"
00:17:53 <psygnisfive> what about it
00:18:01 <tusho> there's a link, dude. :P
00:18:06 <psygnisfive> yes i went there
00:18:29 <tusho> it's the forum package TR uses, it's a private forum with an alglamation of people from various places over the web
00:18:43 <tusho> (though a custom rewrite is coming soon because the current software is fucking us around.)
00:18:54 <psygnisfive> ok so its a forum, thats not the question :P
00:19:01 <tusho> ok, what is the question then
00:19:05 <psygnisfive> whats it FOR
00:19:30 <tusho> discussing/sharing ideas. creations. amusing things. random crap.
00:19:35 <psygnisfive> NOMADS
00:19:38 <tusho> yes
00:19:40 <tusho> nomads too
00:19:43 <psygnisfive> thats what you are! you are nomads!
00:19:46 <psygnisfive> cybernomads!
00:19:56 <tusho> all that was actually a total lie
00:19:59 <tusho> when you log into tentaclerapture
00:20:02 <tusho> you see ... nomads
00:20:04 <tusho> you see them
00:20:04 <psygnisfive> roaming outside the well built up and mapped territory of cyberspace
00:20:06 <tusho> you see them all
00:20:12 <tusho> you see the very essence of nomads - themselves
00:20:13 <psygnisfive> treading where few have gone
00:20:17 <tusho> and then you die.
00:20:21 <psygnisfive> you are the net gypsies
00:20:27 <psygnisfive> the web wanderers
00:20:32 * oerjan wonders if you can be a cybernomad without your body ever moving
00:20:47 <psygnisfive> oerjan: cyberspace is a realm of ideas, of mind, pure thought and meme
00:20:59 <oerjan> and porn
00:21:03 <psygnisfive> mostly porn.
00:21:31 <tusho> porn is arguably a meme
00:22:13 <psygnisfive> oh so i have this rather large, 17 inch long gigantic dildo and last night, to my delight, i found a video on xtube of a guy taking the ENTIRE length
00:22:21 <psygnisfive> its not very flexible either
00:22:23 <psygnisfive> <3
00:22:35 <tusho> wonderful
00:22:51 <tusho> we ... really needed to know that
00:23:00 <psygnisfive> ;)
00:23:01 <tusho> oerjan: i think now you give us a terrible pun
00:23:03 <tusho> to break the silence
00:23:29 <psygnisfive> theres no silence
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00:23:42 <oklopol> you have 16 active users on a page with your comics?
00:23:45 <psygnisfive> tusho, i want you to help me come up with ideas.
00:23:48 <psygnisfive> you too oklopol.
00:23:51 <oklopol> what the fuck :)
00:23:59 <tusho> oklopol: no I just dump the comics on the same domain
00:24:00 <tusho> duh
00:24:00 <tusho> :P
00:24:09 <tusho> http://tentaclerapture.com/ is the real dealie
00:24:13 <tusho> well, the login page that you see isn't.
00:24:15 <oklopol> also you fuckers talked so fast logs went past the screen and i have to open logreader again
00:24:27 <psygnisfive> the entire website is about that log in page
00:24:35 <tusho> psygnisfive: awww
00:24:36 <psygnisfive> the log in page is a sort of social nexus for discussion
00:24:37 <tusho> you found me out
00:24:38 <oerjan> tusho: the silence is already broken, so i cannot fix it. er, wait.
00:24:38 <pikhq> #esoteric: the kink channel?
00:24:45 <psygnisfive> people go to the login page and discuss things
00:24:55 <tusho> psygnisfive: with telepathy, yes
00:24:58 <tusho> it's powered by nomads
00:25:00 <psygnisfive> exactly!
00:25:10 <psygnisfive> cybernomad powered electronic telepathy
00:25:35 <oklopol> psygnisfive: link
00:25:53 <psygnisfive> its a telepathic link, unfortunately. i cant give one to you unless you're a cybernomad.
00:25:54 <tusho> psygnisfive: to what, the video or TR
00:25:58 <tusho> http://tentaclerapture.com/ <- TR
00:26:04 <tusho> i have no fucking idea, ask psy <- video
00:26:07 <tusho> *psygnisfive
00:26:19 <psygnisfive> i dont even know what hes asking for a link to
00:26:21 <oklopol> video ofc
00:26:26 <psygnisfive> video of hat?
00:26:28 <psygnisfive> what*
00:26:32 <tusho> [00:22:15] <psygnisfive> oh so i have this rather large, 17 inch long gigantic dildo and last night, to my delight, i found a video on xtube of a guy taking the ENTIRE length
00:26:38 <psygnisfive> HAT VIDEO. VIDEO OF ALL SORTS OF HATS.
00:26:43 <psygnisfive> HABERDASHERS ABOUND.
00:26:47 <psygnisfive> oh, that? lemme find it
00:26:55 <oklopol> also tusho would make a cute girl, but then again so would many boys his age
00:27:04 <psygnisfive> http://video.xtube.com/watch.php?v_user_id=liltex&cv=0&idx=5&v=Joc0v-G419-&cl=fB3Bi-G419-&from=&ver=3&ccaa=1&qid=&qidx=&qnum=&video_type=0
00:27:12 <oklopol> he's more boy than girl still, imo
00:27:22 <oklopol> thanks
00:27:40 <psygnisfive> they're not cute guys tho :(
00:27:44 <psygnisfive> oklopol, you should make porn.
00:27:44 <dogface> psygnisfive: what do you mean by "taking"?
00:27:46 * tusho moves #esoteric -> #porn
00:27:53 <tusho> hmm
00:27:57 * tusho moves #porn -> #gayporn
00:28:02 <psygnisfive> taking, as in, he inserts the whole 13+ insertable inches in his ass.
00:28:22 <psygnisfive> no its probably 14 inches insertable
00:28:28 <dogface> Oh.
00:28:44 <oklopol> no bad, not bad
00:28:47 <tusho> dogface: were you imagining him, like, picking it up
00:28:54 <tusho> as opposed to only picking a few inches of it up
00:28:55 <pikhq> tusho: It's not gay, it's for those who like men. (you never know; there could be a girl into guys with dildos)
00:28:56 <psygnisfive> its pretty impressive, to have that whole thing inside you
00:29:01 <psygnisfive> then again
00:29:08 <psygnisfive> i HAVE seen guys get fisted up to the shoulder
00:29:12 <psygnisfive> which blows my mind
00:29:20 <tusho> pikhq: But the only people talking about the video are gay/bi guys. :P
00:29:22 <pikhq> That's got to do some damage.
00:29:27 <pikhq> tusho: Ah. Well, then.
00:29:38 <tusho> psygnisfive: Mmm. I love rearranging internal organs.
00:29:41 <psygnisfive> pikhq: i dont know, man. who knows.
00:29:45 <pikhq> Actually, I'm straight, and going "... That's a fucking huge dildo."
00:29:54 <oklopol> that's a cool trick
00:29:57 <pikhq> (and male)
00:30:06 <psygnisfive> lots of straight guys enjoy getting dildos.
00:30:07 <dogface> How easy is it to rearrange the internal organs?
00:30:10 <pikhq> So: impressed, yes. Turned on, not really.
00:30:20 <oklopol> awesome vid, but not really much sexier than someone swallowing a teapot
00:30:21 <psygnisfive> what gets you off sexually can be complicated with relation to notions like sexuality
00:30:26 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Said guys are probably not turned on by images of other guys getting dildos. :p
00:30:33 <psygnisfive> pikhq: indeed
00:30:43 <tusho> pikhq: hahahaha i'd love to watch a series of porn reviews done in the style of regular movie criticism
00:30:49 <pikhq> :D
00:30:55 <pikhq> That would be brilliant.
00:30:55 <tusho> that'd be hilarious
00:30:58 <psygnisfive> an interesting fetish some straight guys have is "forced homosexuality"
00:31:02 <psygnisfive> they dont like guys, nor sex with guys
00:31:11 <psygnisfive> but they like it when a dominatrix forces them to have sex with a guy
00:31:24 <psygnisfive> because its that whole humiliation/degredation/submission thing
00:31:37 <tusho> People have probably gotten off to SWAP.AVI.
00:31:41 <dogface> Easy enough that the abdomen is not completely rigid, removing the appendix doesn't leave a hole in you, and the stomach is not filled with air when empty. And we can breathe.
00:31:46 <tusho> (The thought of that both highly amuses me and highly disturbs me.)
00:31:46 <psygnisfive> swap.avi??
00:31:56 <tusho> psygnisfive: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/horrors-of-porn/horrible-saga-swapavi.php
00:32:07 <tusho> An epic saga.
00:32:24 <psygnisfive> can you just describe it?
00:32:38 <dogface> Not easy enough that--oh, never mind.
00:32:44 <tusho> psygnisfive: A member of the something awful forums says he's found a brazillian service where you can requset porn videos to be made.
00:32:58 <tusho> They compile a final description of what they want, which is hilariously over-the-top because they don't believe the poster.
00:33:00 <pikhq> Oh my dear *lord*.
00:33:06 <tusho> Finally, he solicits donations and ... no return. He is banned.
00:33:09 <tusho> A bit later?
00:33:13 <tusho> The link to SWAP.avi is posted.
00:33:26 <psygnisfive> oh, its an absurdist scat film?
00:33:42 <tusho> psygnisfive: It involves something awful memes at the start, too.
00:33:45 <tusho> That's pretty absurd.
00:33:49 <psygnisfive> thats awesome
00:33:52 <psygnisfive> its like art
00:34:00 <psygnisfive> someone should make an exhibit out of it, it'd be awesome
00:34:06 <oklopol> less talking, more linking
00:34:31 <tusho> http://i.somethingawful.com//sasbi/2006/12/elpintogrande/swap8.jpg <- Image You Should Not View Ever #8.
00:34:52 <psygnisfive> looks like a scene from 2 Girls 1 Cup, reprise
00:34:54 <dogface> Computers are not so flexible. Then again, they must be rigid so that their lungs don't collapse, causing death by hyperthermia.
00:35:00 <tusho> psygnisfive: googling found me this torrent
00:35:04 <tusho> http://btjunkie.org/torrent/SWAP-AVI-Metis-scat-swapping-film-from-MFX-Video/43240c2c564970d6f180381ba38634f872fcb2e6480c
00:35:08 <psygnisfive> well i dont want to watch it
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00:35:13 <oklopol> that's actually from a vid from the 2girls1cup page
00:35:17 <psygnisfive> the link has a time-ordered scene breakdown
00:35:21 <tusho> :D
00:35:30 <tusho> oklopol: no it's not
00:35:33 <tusho> it predates 2g1c
00:35:34 <oklopol> seen the original too, it's like an hour long film
00:35:44 <oklopol> well yeah
00:35:47 <oklopol> but it's linked on the page
00:36:05 <oklopol> there were 3 short vids at some point
00:36:18 <tusho> ah
00:36:30 <tusho> ah
00:36:31 <tusho> http://www.swapavi.com/swap.avi
00:36:33 <tusho> non-torrent version
00:36:38 <tusho> hmm
00:36:39 <tusho> only 1mb
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00:36:41 <tusho> can't be the full thing
00:36:45 <pikhq> I refuse to watch it.
00:36:50 <psygnisfive> so im guessing the porn-on-request place is real
00:36:54 <psygnisfive> thats actually cool.
00:37:08 <tusho> pikhq: not the full thing anyway, I imagine
00:37:10 <dogface> I guess if we had no bones, we wouldn't be as able to breathe, but computers tend to use more energy than we do, meaning they have to eliminate more heat, plus their circulatory systems don't reach the surface.
00:37:13 <tusho> the full thing is like 100mb
00:37:15 <dogface> What is scat, by the way?
00:37:15 <tusho> (or was it 500, whatever)
00:37:20 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Disturbing, but cool.
00:37:25 <pikhq> dogface: Porn involving shit.
00:37:32 <tusho> I was about to reply
00:37:36 <tusho> but pikhq said it best
00:37:36 <dogface> Oh.
00:37:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Just about had enough").
00:38:01 <oklopol> tusho: i only got like the first 5 seconds.
00:38:02 <oklopol> :)
00:38:21 <psygnisfive> i want to have a porn company some day
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00:38:27 * tusho imagines swap.avi being reviewed in serious, somber film-critic style
00:38:31 <tusho> *SWAP.avi
00:39:21 <dogface> Make porn based on anagrams of "dagflox".
00:39:28 <oklopol> i've seen the opening, but i think mfx has used it on many films
00:39:34 <oklopol> so hard to say what that is
00:39:51 <oklopol> (the beginning of linked swap.avi)
00:40:00 <psygnisfive> tusho: we should do it.
00:40:06 <psygnisfive> we should make a review podcast like that.
00:40:13 <tusho> psygnisfive: no, it'd have to be a video review
00:40:15 <tusho> for the formal attire
00:40:16 <psygnisfive> or it could be one episode of our podcast
00:40:25 <psygnisfive> heres how i envision it
00:40:26 <oklopol> dogface: gold fax
00:40:28 <tusho> also, I do not sound like a film critic
00:40:31 <tusho> and I look like a film critic even less
00:40:32 <tusho> :P
00:40:35 <psygnisfive> it cant be a podcast where you see the video itself
00:40:37 <oklopol> shouldn't be hard to turn into porn
00:40:45 <psygnisfive> it has to be something where you cant tell what we're reviewing
00:40:51 <psygnisfive> until well into it
00:40:52 <psygnisfive> like
00:40:52 <dogface> oklopol: you can't make porn without dog flax.
00:41:01 <psygnisfive> you listen for 15 minutes and it could be a review of _anything_
00:41:01 <tusho> psygnisfive: aww, it'd prefer it to be really damn obvious
00:41:04 <oklopol> what's flax?
00:41:08 <tusho> like, it starts with the start of the porn
00:41:10 <psygnisfive> but then it gets progressively more.. fucked up sounding
00:41:17 <tusho> then moves out so that you can see the screen and the reviewer
00:41:25 <tusho> and he gives a somber, serious, in-depth, critical analysis of it
00:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | if you consider _really_ severe dyslexia retarded... (so bad that you cannot even say if your spell checker's suggestions are correct).
00:41:37 <oklopol> there was that one essay on 2girls1cup
00:41:40 <tusho> and then it cuts to after the film
00:41:44 <tusho> and he's sitting
00:41:46 <tusho> and gives his final thoughts
00:41:47 <oklopol> teacher's comments were priceless
00:41:49 <tusho> and then it's over
00:41:56 <tusho> optbot!
00:41:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | they're all kept with the distribution to avoid line number clashes.
00:41:59 <tusho> optbot!
00:41:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | parse_ski. unless that has nothing to do with SKI calculus.
00:42:00 <tusho> optbot!
00:42:01 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 22..
00:42:38 <oklopol> i recognize two of those 4
00:42:51 <oklopol> (i think)
00:45:34 <tusho> "And we see here the stylistic device very much associated with the minimalistic work of Johnson - notice the bare, sparse feel yet fluidity of the movement and its inherent interlinking with the intensely minimalistic - some would even claim missing - musical score." - a friend after hearing of this "somber, serious, film critic-style review of porn" idea
00:46:37 <oklopol> yeah johnson has a tiny cock
00:46:46 <oklopol> i think i'll work on fugue now
00:47:17 <psygnisfive> tusho: :D
00:50:36 <psygnisfive> brb faggots
00:53:04 <tusho> is that 'be right back because of faggots'
00:53:06 <tusho> or 'faggots: brb'
00:54:23 <tusho> bye for today
00:55:04 <psygnisfive> the latter
00:55:08 <psygnisfive> the former would be better
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00:56:55 <psygnisfive> oklopol
00:56:55 <psygnisfive> pms
01:03:40 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
01:03:42 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
01:03:43 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
01:03:45 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
01:10:48 <oklopol> :o
01:18:58 <fizzie> That seems curiously urgent.
01:19:19 <psygnisfive> it was
01:19:24 <oklopol> yeah he wanted my babies
01:19:27 <psygnisfive> i needed somewhere to cum
01:19:42 <psygnisfive> see his mouth, ready for my spunk?
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01:21:26 <oklopol> 'be right back because of faggots' can mean either "i leave, but i'll return later cuz i like ya faggots", or "i leave for a while, since there are hot faggies here"
01:22:18 <oklopol> really the latter only because be right back is only the expanding of brb, otherwise just the latter
01:22:20 <oklopol> ...
01:22:23 <oklopol> former
01:22:31 <oklopol> ...
01:22:43 <oklopol> s/latter latter/former/!
01:25:11 <psygnisfive> latter ladder
01:25:20 <fizzie> Maybe s/latter/former/g to replace all instances.
01:26:01 <fizzie> And I guess more often "brb foo" is "will be right back; going away because of foo".
01:27:34 <psygnisfive> no i think "brb, foo" has that interpretation more so
01:27:40 <psygnisfive> "brb foo" is more vocative on foo
01:27:42 <psygnisfive> "brb guys"
01:27:48 <oklopol> i disagree
01:27:57 <fizzie> Dunno, I think I've seen stuff like "brb food".
01:28:03 <oklopol> agree with fizzie
01:28:03 <psygnisfive> oh ofcourse
01:28:07 <psygnisfive> and i use that
01:28:19 <psygnisfive> it could depend on what foo is
01:28:27 <fizzie> Unless you're thinking of other people on channel as food, I'm not ruling that out.
01:28:50 <oklopol> my point was exactly that once you expand it, you can interpret it as either
01:28:53 <psygnisfive> however now we're talking about the selectional requirements of "brb"
01:28:57 <psygnisfive> which gets into theoretical syntax
01:29:01 <psygnisfive> and i need oklopol pure
01:29:03 <psygnisfive> so stop :P
01:29:20 <oklopol> i've already seen one of your crazy syntax trees!
01:29:25 <psygnisfive> ;)
01:29:26 <psygnisfive> which one?
01:29:31 <psygnisfive> did i show you the Generative Semantics one?
01:29:38 <oklopol> it was about that...
01:29:39 <oklopol> hmm
01:29:42 <fizzie> I somehow read that as "and i need oklopol porn". I think it's because I just reviewed what you were talking about while I slept for a bit there.
01:29:52 <psygnisfive> i need oklopol porn too, actually
01:30:07 <psygnisfive> oklopol
01:30:09 <psygnisfive> give me you porn
01:30:19 <oklopol> psygnisfive: you were arguing about english grammar
01:30:26 <oklopol> don't remember the exact context
01:30:37 <oklopol> you addressed me in pm later about some comment of mine
01:30:42 <psygnisfive> can i show you something from some research done in the late 60s early 70s?
01:31:00 <oklopol> (i showed an error in your thinking, and you showed me how i sucked ass like there's no tomorrow)
01:31:11 <oklopol> (and i was like :<)
01:31:16 <oklopol> (well no really i don't remember.)
01:31:19 <psygnisfive> oh but you DO suck ass
01:31:21 <psygnisfive> among other things
01:31:22 <psygnisfive> =3
01:31:28 <psygnisfive> back then, there were some students of chomsky's that broke away from mainstream syntax of the time to form their own school of thought on syntax
01:31:31 <oklopol> *not
01:32:01 <psygnisfive> namely, they wanted to account for all cases of synonymy by supposing certain things
01:32:08 <psygnisfive> the result of which was that simple
01:32:09 <psygnisfive> SIMPLE
01:32:16 <psygnisfive> sentences like "Floyd broke the vase"
01:32:23 <psygnisfive> end up having amazingly complex structures
01:32:37 <psygnisfive> infact, that sentence, by their theories, has 8, EIGHT, subsentences.
01:32:44 <oklopol> :D
01:32:46 <oklopol> awesome
01:33:02 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/lolgs.png
01:33:11 <psygnisfive> Floyd broke the glass*
01:33:24 <psygnisfive> but the structure would be the same none the less.
01:33:39 <oklopol> ofc
01:33:54 <fizzie> "it that it that it that Floyd DO it that Floyd CAUSE it that it that it that the glass broken BE INCHOATIVE HAPPEN PAST TO YOU". Hehe.
01:33:54 <psygnisfive> suffice it to say, generative semantics didnt last long and wasn't ever taken seriously
01:34:20 <fizzie> Oh, I missed the "I DECLARE" part at the beginning somehow.
01:34:24 <psygnisfive> yes
01:34:42 <psygnisfive> i hope this doesnt spoil you, oklopol.
01:34:42 <psygnisfive> :P
01:35:13 <oklopol> inchoative?
01:35:26 <oklopol> I THUS DECLARE
01:35:38 <psygnisfive> brb guys, i have to go shopping
01:35:52 <psygnisfive> oklopol, we'll go over the syntax stuff when i get back
01:35:54 <psygnisfive> ::kiss::
01:35:56 <oklopol> :o
01:36:03 <oklopol> err it's like half past 4
01:36:06 <psygnisfive> oh
01:36:08 <psygnisfive> thats right
01:36:10 <psygnisfive> you're in finland
01:36:12 <oklopol> whole finland is asleep.
01:36:16 <psygnisfive> well ill talk to you tomorrow baout it then
01:36:17 <oklopol> except for me and fizzie
01:36:23 <psygnisfive> see ya
01:36:27 <oklopol> yarr i'm free tomorrow
01:36:41 <fizzie> "Get a room, guys."
01:37:00 <oklopol> :)
01:37:16 <psygnisfive> ::kisses fizzie:: ;O
01:37:18 <psygnisfive> bye
01:37:32 <oklopol> bye
01:37:48 <fizzie> For tusho's log-reading purposes: I think the gnome-vfs access might well be from Epiphany, that gnome web browser. I think for consistency it uses the gnome-vfs functions for all URLs.
01:38:02 <oklopol> hmm
01:38:07 <oklopol> perhaps i should leave him a message too
01:38:17 <oklopol> tusho: hi i think i'll drink some water now
01:38:21 <oklopol> ->
01:40:05 -!- fizzie has quit ("switching hostname back").
01:40:12 -!- fizzie has joined.
01:40:39 <fizzie> (fungot doesn't like my commands if they do not come with this particular nick!user@host prefix.)
01:42:48 <oklopol> does it die given an infloop?
01:43:00 <fizzie> It shouln't, if you mean the ^bf command.
01:43:02 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
01:43:04 <fungot> ...out of time!
01:43:30 <fizzie> It prints that and stops after executing 10k bf instructions.
01:43:37 <oklopol> :|
01:43:57 <oklopol> well it printed that, and i asked kingofkarlsruhe if he printed that, or it was a timeout
01:44:06 <oklopol> and he said it was him
01:44:20 <oklopol> lier! i prolly just misunderstood, but anyway
01:44:23 <oklopol> *liar
01:44:25 <oklopol> okokokor
01:44:46 <fizzie> Well, it could've been him.
01:45:14 <oklopol> no
01:45:16 <oklopol> it couldn't
01:45:30 <fizzie> ^bf +++++++++++[>++++>+++>++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>-.<++...>>>+.++++++.-.<<.>+.---------.<.>>.<+++.++++.--------.<.<------.>>>-.<----.>++++++.------.<<.>------------------------.<<+.>+.
01:45:30 <fungot> ...out of time (says I)!
01:45:58 <oklopol> see? it adds some random shit in the end
01:46:06 <oklopol> "(says I)!"
01:46:31 <oklopol> must've been the timeout
01:47:47 <fizzie> Must go to do the sleeping thing, there's a semi-early train trip tomorrow. (Or at least prepare-to-go-to-sleep thing, then I'll come back to do a minor alteration to fungot.)
01:48:31 <oklopol> what's that alteration?
01:51:19 -!- Figs has joined.
01:51:22 <Figs> hello
01:51:34 <pikhq> We can has bot?
01:51:43 <pikhq> ^bf +[+.]
01:51:43 <fungot> ............................. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ...
01:51:47 <pikhq> :D
01:52:22 <Figs> ^bf >++++++++++[<++++>-]<.
01:52:22 <fungot> (
01:52:35 <Figs> ^bf >++++++++++[<++++>-]<.+.+.
01:52:36 <fungot> ()*
01:52:45 <Figs> cool
01:52:54 <pikhq> Sveet.
01:53:17 <Figs> did you see my evil invention yesterday?
01:53:19 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/t2kLGX37.html
01:53:24 <pikhq> I get the feeling *someone* has created an Egobot replacement. :D
01:53:32 <Figs> Well, it's the *start* of an evil invention, at least...
01:53:40 <Figs> not sure what to do with it next
01:54:58 <fizzie> pikhq; If you hadn't noticed, fungot is written in Funge-98 with the SOCK fingerprint, so it's implementation-wise suitable for this channel too.
01:55:26 <pikhq> That's *brilliant*.
01:55:30 <pikhq> Just *brilliant*.
01:55:47 <pikhq> I mean, really: I love you.
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01:56:45 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt has them sources, although it lacks the separate "loader" part, and is not the completely latest version.
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02:04:20 <fizzie> Now to check if I broke it.
02:04:22 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
02:04:24 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:04:27 <fizzie> ^reload
02:04:31 <pikhq> ^bf +++++++++.
02:04:39 <fizzie> Heh, I did, in fact, break it.
02:04:52 -!- fungot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:05:14 <fizzie> That was a bit less impressive than I was hoping for. Next time I'll test first and deploy later.
02:06:14 <oklopol> Figs: i don't get it
02:06:25 <fizzie> Right, there's a 0 missing.
02:06:25 <Figs> Hmm? :)
02:06:31 <oklopol> i mean
02:06:46 <oklopol> are you just summing 0..n until it's more than 100?
02:07:05 <Figs> z[n] is a variable length array
02:07:33 <Figs> You should get 0, 1 1, 2 2 2, 3 3 3 3, 4 4 4 4 4, ...
02:07:35 <Figs> in the array
02:07:36 <Figs> IIRC
02:07:38 <oklopol> yeah, and you fill it, including the element after the last element, with n
02:07:39 <oklopol> right
02:07:47 <oklopol> int k = n;
02:07:47 <oklopol> do
02:07:47 <oklopol> z[k]=n-1;
02:07:53 <oklopol> why not k = n-1
02:08:01 <oklopol> isn't that crashy
02:08:12 <Figs> I wrote it at like 1 am or whatever :P
02:08:35 <Figs> -Wall -pedantic didn't catch it, and I didn't notice ;P
02:08:54 <oklopol> oh
02:09:19 <oklopol> it was a blinking red zone in my eyes
02:09:58 <oklopol> but right for some reason i read z[k]=n-1; as z[k]=n..;
02:09:59 <oklopol> *n--
02:10:04 <oklopol> but
02:10:13 <oklopol> that still wouldn't work like i described
02:11:58 <Figs> I wrote it at like 1 am, so *shrug*; the big idea was to use a label called While that takes a parameter that's ignored, a disguised free {} block within main, and a resized variable length array
02:12:06 -!- fungot has joined.
02:12:10 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
02:12:12 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:12:14 <fizzie> ^reload
02:12:15 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
02:12:18 <fungot> ...out of FOOD!
02:12:20 <fizzie> Yay.
02:12:21 <Figs> O_o
02:12:34 <Figs> ^bf +[<]
02:12:44 <Figs> ^reload
02:12:49 <Figs> ^bf +[<]
02:12:59 <pikhq> Borken.
02:13:05 <fizzie> I think that just generated no output. And ^reload is not accepted from anyone else than me. Makes sense, since only I can change the code.
02:13:09 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
02:13:11 <fungot> ...out of FOOD!
02:13:13 <fizzie> ^reload
02:13:14 <fizzie> ^bf +[]
02:13:16 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:13:25 <Figs> ^bf +[]
02:13:28 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:13:35 <pikhq> ^bf +[>]
02:13:39 <fizzie> The +[<] loop stops after one iteration, since the next cell is zero.
02:13:46 <fizzie> ^bf +[>+]
02:13:48 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:13:50 <Figs> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.]
02:13:51 <fungot> ...
02:14:01 <Figs> :D
02:14:30 <pikhq> ^bf +[<+]
02:14:30 <oklopol> ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++++++[.]
02:14:31 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:14:31 <fungot> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ...
02:14:42 <fizzie> There's an output length limit of 15*15 characters.
02:14:50 <pikhq> +bf +[++.]
02:15:06 <oklopol> fizzie: how come you program befunge better than most people code mainstream languages?
02:15:28 <Figs> ^bf >++++++++++++++++++++[<++++++++++++++++++++>-].
02:15:29 <fungot> .
02:15:35 <pikhq> Because most people code mainstream languages suckily.
02:15:36 <oklopol> ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]+++++++++++++>++++++++++[.<.---.+++>]
02:15:37 <fungot> n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n.. ...
02:15:44 <Figs> ^bf
02:16:13 <oklopol> fizzie: what does 15*15 mean?
02:16:21 <fizzie> Oh, and characters [0,30] or so are filtered to ., otherwise tusho would just use it to output "\r\nJOIN #ubuntu\r\nPRIVMSG #ubuntu :arrr thar any gays here?" again.
02:16:24 <oklopol> if you convert 13 and 10 to .
02:16:32 <oklopol> :)
02:17:04 <pikhq> fizzie: Oh, so you actually *recall* our insanity. :D
02:17:20 <oklopol> even i recall that, it was like yesterday
02:17:59 <Figs> ^bf ----------.
02:17:59 <fungot>
02:18:04 <fizzie> I didn't want to bother with it interpreting newlines and writing the "PRIVMSG #chan :" prefix multiple times. Although I guess I could have.
02:18:14 <pikhq> oklopol: I wasn't on then.
02:18:24 <pikhq> Also, we've done the same to Egobot in the distant past.
02:18:35 <fizzie> Cells are one byte wide and wrap-around; the array is also only 1000 cells wide.
02:18:37 <pikhq> I think it was ehird/tusho that started it, actually.
02:18:53 <oklopol> pikhq: it's been done to every bot, of course :)
02:18:56 <Figs> ^bf +[+>].
02:18:57 <fungot> .
02:19:03 <oklopol> but that gay ubuntu thing was a few days ago
02:19:07 <pikhq> oklopol: Every bot with customisable output, of course.
02:19:43 <Figs> ^bf +[+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]
02:19:43 <oklopol> fizzie: so... what does "15*15" mean? :D
02:19:45 <fungot> fungot had a free-for-all ^raw for an hour or so, but... now it's nick!user@host-limited to me.
02:19:54 <oklopol> Figs: you fail at bf
02:20:14 <Figs> I'm not trying to do anything useful :P
02:20:29 <oklopol> well that just incs a cell twice and ends
02:20:34 <Figs> :D
02:20:40 <oklopol> it definitely looks like you tried to make an infloop :D
02:20:48 <oklopol> but guess you fooled me :P
02:20:56 <oklopol> okay, i'll try sleeping again.asfpok ->
02:21:00 <fizzie> oklopol; 225, I think. "ff*" was the largest number I could get with three characters, although I guess I could have used a funge-space cell and something "99g"-like.
02:21:05 <Figs> ^bf +[>+]
02:21:07 <Figs> you mean? :P
02:21:08 <fungot> ...out of time!
02:21:50 <Figs> ^bf I'm a little teapot, short and stout!
02:21:56 <fizzie> It's there around row 99: ff*`#^_
02:22:15 <fizzie> ^bf +[,.]!it does input like this
02:22:15 <fungot> it does input like this.
02:22:49 <Figs> ^bf +[,.]!\r\n:D
02:22:49 <fungot> \r\n:D.
02:24:37 <Figs> ^bf >[,>]<[.<]!olleH
02:24:46 <Figs> duh
02:24:54 <Figs> maybe I do suck at BF today :P
02:25:03 <Figs> ^bf >+[,>]<[.<]!olleH
02:25:03 <fungot> o
02:26:14 <Figs> ^bf +[-.+]
02:26:15 <fungot> ............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ...
02:27:58 <fizzie> ^bf >+[>,]<[.<]!olleH
02:27:58 <fungot> Hello.
02:28:16 <fizzie> (The dot is that '1' cell there, didn't bother to fix it.)
02:29:24 <Figs> O_o
02:29:40 <Figs> I really am out of it today.
02:29:59 <Figs> haha, wtf was I thinking ,> :|
02:39:18 <fizzie> ^reload
02:40:21 <fizzie> (Did not change much, just made ^bf replies work right if done in privmsg to the bot. It used to reply to the privmsg target, since it worked on channels. Now if the target doesn't begin with #, it instead uses the 'nick' from the nick!user@host prefix.)
02:43:01 <fizzie> That was really simple, just a
02:43:01 <fizzie> >06g'#-!#v_ 04g!#^_ 1>:4g:!#v_'!-#v_v
02:43:04 <fizzie> v < P60 G41 $$<0 p4\ 0<
02:43:07 <fizzie> ^ +1<
02:43:20 <fizzie> (Although for some reason the copy-paste had lots of spaces there.)
02:43:29 <fizzie> Easier to write than copy-paste correctly.
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02:50:05 <Figs> hey oklopol, did you ever get around to playing my song...?
02:52:11 <fizzie> Hah, I broke ^reload with that change, since it 0s the ! in the prefix. The stupefity.
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03:02:56 <fizzie> 05am is a good time to go to sleep. ->
03:03:03 <Figs> :P
03:07:44 <dogface> I wonder how long it took me to realize that sharks are fish.
03:08:14 <Figs> I'm gonna head off
03:08:15 <Figs> cyaz
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03:11:52 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
03:45:19 <psygnisfive> http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=631847#631847
03:54:46 <psygnisfive> read it bitches
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06:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | silly :D.
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07:58:20 <asiekierka> { }
07:58:21 <asiekierka> |
07:58:22 <asiekierka> _|_
07:58:28 <asiekierka> light the space
07:58:31 <asiekierka> the fungespace
07:58:34 <asiekierka> the webspace
07:58:37 <asiekierka> the diskspace
07:58:53 <asiekierka> the fat16space
07:58:59 <asiekierka> the boringpace
07:59:23 <asiekierka> the stupidace
07:59:30 <asiekierka> the coolyace
07:59:45 <asiekierka> the windowsce
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08:00:08 <asiekierka> the endof
08:00:12 <asiekierka> the song.
08:38:51 <asiekierka> ...
08:43:40 <asiekierka> I'm gonna remove all my old, already spammed and linked a lot forums, maybe that'll make 500's a little rarer.
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09:35:37 <psygnisfive> hey oklofok
09:35:39 <psygnisfive> <3you
09:36:53 <oklofok> and computers whether things will al end as they should
09:37:07 <oklofok> computers?
09:37:12 <oklofok> computes?
09:37:29 <oklofok> al? names should be capitalized!
09:38:02 <oklofok> Well, the truth is that P cannot possibly be,
09:38:02 <oklofok> because if you wrote it and gave it to me,
09:38:02 <oklofok> I could use it to set up a logical bind
09:38:02 <oklofok> that would shatter your reason and scramble your mind.
09:38:04 <oklofok> this is nice
09:43:21 <oklofok> as a summary, computers process information faster than humans... and that's all, because they don't think...
10:03:21 <oklofok> i don't really get that wanking around humans being fundamentally better than computers @ solving impossible problems, religious people should not comment on mathematical issues
10:10:45 <psygnisfive> oklofok
10:10:48 <psygnisfive> have you gone mad?
10:11:10 <psygnisfive> or have you stayed the same?
10:11:10 <psygnisfive> :o
10:11:13 <psygnisfive> ::kiss::
10:11:15 <psygnisfive> i have to sleep
10:11:18 <psygnisfive> night crazyboy
10:11:20 <psygnisfive> <3
10:24:30 <oklofok> night
10:24:35 <oklofok> and no, i'm not madder than usually
10:31:25 <AnMaster> <tusho> http://tentaclerapture.com/lulz/photo2.jpg
10:31:25 <AnMaster> <psygnisfive> you still look like a girl but ok.
10:31:28 <AnMaster> oh yes you do
10:32:26 <AnMaster> I guess I blame the long hair
10:32:41 <AnMaster> your face could be either gender
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11:02:26 <Deewiant> AnMaster: FSPACEBOUNDS: is the max relative to the min, like in y?
11:03:39 * AnMaster checks
11:03:56 <Deewiant> AnMaster: not said in the PDF...
11:04:35 <AnMaster> well seems reasonable
11:04:38 <AnMaster> I will make it say that
11:04:52 <Deewiant> IMHO it makes more sense for it to be absolute
11:04:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, wait a sec
11:04:59 <AnMaster> ok
11:05:24 <Deewiant> I guess the reason it's relative in funge is that it's tricky to do the subtractions with only the stack, if you need relative (for i for instance)
11:05:44 <Deewiant> but here we're not assuming that the frontend is written in funge...
11:07:06 <AnMaster> indeed
11:07:11 <AnMaster> but it could be, using SOCK
11:07:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'll make it absolute
11:08:21 <AnMaster> bbiab
11:09:33 -!- asiekierka has joined.
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11:15:32 <asiekierka> Yay
11:15:43 <asiekierka> I have an unfinished implementation of bfIRC
11:15:49 <asiekierka> which doesn't help me anything :(
11:15:53 <asiekierka> I must make it myself seems.
11:27:43 <oklofok> yes, you must
11:27:48 <oklofok> what's bfirc?
11:27:54 <asiekierka> No wait, he finished it
11:28:04 <asiekierka> BFirc is my little modification of BF to add irc functionalities
11:28:14 <asiekierka> my friend, darktemplar, implemented it
11:28:22 <oklofok> okay, and how are you going to add them?
11:28:38 <asiekierka> basically, , is changed and output data is saved to a buffer, and a new command is there
11:28:49 <asiekierka> _ - output the buffer data to IRC
11:29:24 <oklofok> i would skip the buffer; can you take input from keyboard anymore?
11:29:29 <oklofok> or is it just for bots?
11:29:33 <asiekierka> Just for bots.
11:29:41 <asiekierka> It's a lang just for making IRCbots.
11:29:50 <asiekierka> I basically made it to see if i can beat fungot and make an IRCbot in BF.
11:30:00 <oklofok> well you do know you don't actually have to change the language at all, you can just pipe its IO to irc?
11:30:06 <asiekierka> I know
11:30:07 <oklofok> right right.
11:30:09 <asiekierka> But that's crap
11:30:10 <asiekierka> like:
11:30:10 <asiekierka> H
11:30:11 <asiekierka> e
11:30:11 <asiekierka> l
11:30:11 <asiekierka> l
11:30:12 <asiekierka> o
11:30:16 <asiekierka> W
11:30:17 <oklofok> err
11:30:18 <asiekierka> o
11:30:20 <asiekierka> r
11:30:22 <asiekierka> l
11:30:24 <asiekierka> d
11:30:26 <asiekierka> !
11:30:28 <asiekierka> Rather than Hello World!
11:30:33 <oklofok> right, you don't know anything about irc
11:30:37 <oklofok> forgot that
11:30:53 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol.
11:31:31 <oklopol> the irc spec is quite long, and you will never be able to read it; i suggest googling a "irc bot python", and reading
11:31:42 <oklopol> *-a
11:32:04 <asiekierka> http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py
11:32:09 <oklopol> ah right
11:32:12 <asiekierka> this is that BFirc interpreter.
11:32:18 <asiekierka> takes 2 params
11:32:23 <asiekierka> first is the filename
11:32:32 <oklopol> well that won't help you
11:32:37 <asiekierka> and the second is the username to which to output
11:32:50 <asiekierka> he doesn't know how to do a channel-wide yet. :P
11:33:08 <oklopol> ah okay, that uses some external module
11:33:12 <asiekierka> I'm making my own anyway
11:33:14 <oklopol> sorry, it probably will help you
11:33:16 <asiekierka> It's irclib. It uses irclib.
11:33:20 <oklopol> yarrr
11:33:21 <asiekierka> It wouldn't actually
11:33:27 <asiekierka> The implementation isn't channel-wide
11:33:27 <asiekierka> :P
11:33:36 <oklopol> i don't know what that means
11:33:40 <asiekierka> As in
11:33:46 <asiekierka> it outputs/interfaces with a single user
11:33:49 <asiekierka> not with the channet
11:33:51 <asiekierka> channel*
11:34:12 <oklopol> well i can't help with irclib, but for raw irc connections that's a simple substitution of the channel name for the recipient
11:34:31 <oklopol> to send a message to esoteric, you just write PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my fun message.
11:34:37 <oklopol> and end with \r\n
11:35:18 <oklopol> who is makebot?
11:35:25 <oklopol> ah
11:35:28 <oklopol> disconnected right away
11:35:47 -!- dark_templar has joined.
11:36:12 <oklopol> congrats i got helloworlded by your botter
11:36:19 <dark_templar> :>
11:36:41 <asiekierka> :)
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11:52:36 <asiekierka> Omg
11:52:44 <asiekierka> I found a newbie's IRC connection library
11:53:50 <dark_templar> prog lang?
11:54:18 <asiekierka> nope, still using Delphi
11:54:22 <asiekierka> but i found out Vortex&ICS
11:54:48 <asiekierka> Vortex needs ICS. Vortex is an IRC connection library that's way too easy to use for it to be real.
11:55:59 <asiekierka> 2 MB. I must wait for 10 mins for it to d/l
11:56:04 <asiekierka> or 7 mins.
11:56:34 <asiekierka> 10%
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11:56:53 <dark_templar> Teh botter spammed ya all!
11:56:58 <asiekierka> What?
11:57:00 <asiekierka> You finished it?
11:57:03 <asiekierka> Yay.
11:57:06 <asiekierka> Can i test it?
11:57:09 <dark_templar> sure
11:57:14 <asiekierka> ok
11:57:17 <asiekierka> Give the link for us all
11:57:19 <asiekierka> So we all can start
11:57:47 <dark_templar> grab it at http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py
11:57:54 <dark_templar> requires irclib, though
11:57:56 <asiekierka> Is it the channel-wide version?
11:57:59 <dark_templar> yup.
11:58:25 <dark_templar> But I still don't know how you wanna faciliate input
11:58:45 <asiekierka> , will take the latest message from the channel
11:58:49 <asiekierka> And output it
11:58:55 <asiekierka> starting from the current cell
11:58:58 <asiekierka> as a null-termed string
11:59:12 <dark_templar> so I should append all messages put on the chat to the input buffer?
11:59:15 <dark_templar> sounds easy now
11:59:37 <asiekierka> nope
11:59:39 <asiekierka> just the last one
11:59:44 <asiekierka> So if i say "poop", you save it
11:59:47 <dark_templar> what is 'the last one'?
11:59:52 <asiekierka> if i say "road", you overwrite poop with road
11:59:55 <dark_templar> it's totally asynchronous
12:00:02 <asiekierka> if i say "lowl", you overwrite road with lowl
12:00:03 <asiekierka> if you can
12:00:03 <dark_templar> what's more, it has only 1 thread
12:00:13 <asiekierka> Then
12:00:13 <dark_templar> but input buffer doesn't work like that
12:00:16 <asiekierka> Oh
12:00:19 <asiekierka> So how does it
12:00:25 <dark_templar> unless you want me to swap the half-processed input buffer with new one
12:00:34 <dark_templar> it grabs a character from input stream when requested
12:00:58 <dark_templar> Though guys watch out; quite a lot of Polish comments there
12:01:01 <asiekierka> I thought it'll copy the whole message from the input stream
12:01:03 <asiekierka> as in
12:01:05 <asiekierka> I'm at cell 2
12:01:14 <asiekierka> and i take the latest input msg (let's say poop
12:01:19 <asiekierka> 012345
12:01:21 <asiekierka> poop
12:01:28 <asiekierka> and at the end, null is saved
12:01:31 <asiekierka> So it should look like
12:01:53 <asiekierka> 0: 1: 2:p 3:o 4:o 5:p 6:(null)
12:02:04 <asiekierka> As i had the pointer at cell 2
12:04:24 <asiekierka> Also, no wait
12:04:24 <asiekierka> Your "grab a single char" method
12:04:24 <asiekierka> works better
12:04:24 <asiekierka> actually
12:04:25 <asiekierka> But there should be a method
12:04:25 <asiekierka> to proceed to the next char.
12:04:25 <dark_templar> besides, what does (null) evaluate to? Sounds quite Lisp-ish.
12:04:25 <asiekierka> (null)=0
12:04:25 <asiekierka> as in, a value 0
12:04:25 <asiekierka> not the char 0
12:04:25 <dark_templar> as in ascii #0. ok.
12:04:25 <asiekierka> Wait
12:04:25 <asiekierka> you can use ASCII chars <32 righ
12:04:25 <asiekierka> t
12:04:25 <dark_templar> at your own risk.
12:04:25 <asiekierka> They can't be used in IRC anyway
12:04:25 <dark_templar> They can
12:04:25 <dark_templar> but need to be quoted
12:04:25 <dark_templar> I didn't work out the quoting
12:04:25 <asiekierka> But, i'd recommend this way
12:04:36 <asiekierka> What about
12:04:41 <asiekierka> instead of using _
12:04:45 <asiekierka> If i send 0 with .
12:04:50 <asiekierka> it replaces the effect of _?
12:04:58 <dark_templar> well, you could
12:05:03 <dark_templar> but that would break Brainfuck
12:05:12 <asiekierka> Why?
12:05:23 <asiekierka> You don't output 0 anyway.
12:05:31 <dark_templar> as you wish
12:05:33 <asiekierka> or not
12:05:36 <asiekierka> let's keep it as it is
12:05:44 <asiekierka> Even if this means not staying in the 8-command limit
12:05:50 <dark_templar> well
12:05:59 <dark_templar> you could employ the line-break #10 for that instead of #0
12:06:11 <asiekierka> Yeah
12:06:13 <asiekierka> That'd be better, actually
12:06:18 <asiekierka> As many programs USE a line-break
12:06:40 <asiekierka> for example, all the BF games :P
12:06:40 <asiekierka> also
12:06:40 <asiekierka> block #13 from outputting
12:06:49 <asiekierka> Why? It'll fix the programs using #13#10
12:07:01 <asiekierka> and will still allow programs using #10 to work
12:07:25 -!- makebot has joined.
12:07:29 <dark_templar> :<
12:07:46 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:08:04 -!- makebot has joined.
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12:08:31 <asiekierka> Ok, IRClib should be installed now
12:08:42 <dark_templar> Oh. Found the mistake. It grabs both 10 and 13 and newline
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12:09:05 <asiekierka> as newline, you mean
12:09:25 <asiekierka> It should accept 10 and block 13.
12:09:58 <asiekierka> Actually, this method should now make all the BF programs compatible with BFirc.
12:10:00 <dark_templar> Oooh.
12:10:01 <asiekierka> And that's a yay
12:10:10 <dark_templar> So 'fuck anything that's <32 and 10 as newline' ?
12:10:11 <asiekierka> BFirc is BF compatible
12:10:20 <asiekierka> Possibly.
12:10:21 <asiekierka> i mean
12:10:29 <dark_templar> I could display the unprintables as /x<numer> if you wish
12:10:36 <dark_templar> Pythonish.
12:10:52 <asiekierka> Nope. You could make it a parameter in source code if you want so much though.
12:10:55 <asiekierka> But the default way is:
12:11:14 <asiekierka> Ignore everything that's <32 (IRC disallows it) except 10, which is a newline, as in, output the buffer on IRC and go ahead with execution.
12:11:21 <asiekierka> oh
12:11:31 <asiekierka> and clean the buffer before continuing execution
12:11:56 <asiekierka> That's all
12:12:25 <dark_templar> what does 'continiue exection' mean?
12:12:29 <asiekierka> As in
12:12:33 <asiekierka> process the next commands
12:12:34 <dark_templar> it's aeffectively a bot scripted in BF
12:12:45 <asiekierka> yeah
12:13:02 <asiekierka> Now i'm going to force-feed a BF interpreter to it. xD.
12:13:02 <dark_templar> sure, #10 cleans the buffer
12:13:10 <dark_templar> It'd be nonsense NOT to clean it.
12:13:29 <dark_templar> just write a suitable BF program to use a chatbot and invent some way input'd work
12:13:33 <asiekierka> Also, one question. does "," wait for a character if it doesn't get one?
12:14:15 <dark_templar> right now, ',' is ignored.
12:14:20 <asiekierka> Oh. :(
12:14:24 <dark_templar> Yeah, it'd wait if implemented.
12:14:35 <asiekierka> ',' should just output the latest char from the input buffer.
12:14:37 <dark_templar> you wanna some @ commands that checks the buffer?
12:14:44 <dark_templar> yeah, it'd do so.
12:14:49 <asiekierka> Nope... I think not.
12:14:54 <asiekierka> Just finish ',' and it's done.
12:15:06 <asiekierka> Possibly.
12:15:09 <asiekierka> Will need to test it first.
12:15:23 <asiekierka> I think there's one more thing you should add, in source code.
12:15:38 <asiekierka> It should only copy msg's starting with a specific character
12:15:41 <asiekierka> like it wouldn't copy
12:15:43 <asiekierka> i am lol
12:15:45 <asiekierka> but it will copy
12:15:48 <asiekierka> `bf
12:15:51 <asiekierka> if ` is set as that character
12:15:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: index for SSET and SGET, is 0 the top or the bottom?
12:15:57 <asiekierka> It wouldn't copy ` then i think.
12:16:00 <asiekierka> That's all.
12:16:49 <asiekierka> That should also be a source-toggleable option.
12:16:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, see 5.1 I think
12:17:01 <asiekierka> Why? Some people will make a bf chatterbot (!@#$%^!@#$%^) possibly
12:17:56 <asiekierka> So we should have 2 source-toggleable options.
12:18:14 <asiekierka> 1) Between outputting characters <32 as /x(number) and blocking them (except newline)
12:18:18 -!- makebot has joined.
12:18:23 <dark_templar> ...
12:18:37 <asiekierka> and 2) between accepting commands only starting with a specific char and erasing the char, and accepting everything.
12:18:42 <dark_templar> It pretty had to do some sort of 'cat' with input.
12:18:47 <dark_templar> But I'm pretty sure it won't
12:18:50 <asiekierka> `hi!
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12:19:59 <asiekierka> That's all *sigh*.
12:20:13 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ah, cheers
12:20:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what is the point of cross references if no one follows them :P
12:20:39 <AnMaster> "see also blah blah"
12:20:42 <AnMaster> didn't you read that?
12:20:48 <AnMaster> :P
12:21:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: no, because just about every instruction says that
12:21:15 -!- makebot has joined.
12:21:19 <Deewiant> AnMaster: since it's a PDF without links, browsing back and forth every time is a pain
12:21:19 -!- makebot has quit (Excess Flood).
12:21:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it have links, at least it does here
12:21:38 <asiekierka> What?
12:21:42 <asiekierka> couldn't see a word :/
12:21:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you can click 10
12:21:54 <dark_templar> run your imagination -a
12:21:58 <dark_templar> it was kicked for flood
12:21:59 <AnMaster> ok a mistake that they are black
12:21:59 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ah, UI fail then, they look no different from the rest of the text :-P
12:22:01 <dark_templar> so it had to do something
12:22:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I agree
12:22:06 <asiekierka> But where xD
12:22:34 <dark_templar> write me some program that takes 10 characters, outputs them with a #10
12:22:54 <asiekierka> I will make a program that takes 1 character and outputs it with a #10
12:22:54 <asiekierka> in a loop
12:23:23 <dark_templar> sure
12:23:28 <asiekierka> ++++++++++[>,.<.]
12:23:29 <dark_templar> that will make you get kicked for flood
12:23:29 <asiekierka> check it
12:23:34 <dark_templar> I wrote the same thing
12:23:41 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so colour them or something :-P
12:23:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, fixed and uploaded
12:23:54 <dark_templar> http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py grab it with working output
12:23:56 <dark_templar> and input
12:24:03 <dark_templar> I gotta be going
12:24:14 <asiekierka> oh
12:24:16 <dark_templar> I really need that bag for my laptop
12:24:20 <asiekierka> wait, is the charcheck working?
12:24:24 <asiekierka> So i can make it detect a specific char?
12:24:29 <dark_templar> no, it isn't :>
12:24:29 <asiekierka> and only input that?
12:24:31 <asiekierka> Oh.
12:24:33 <asiekierka> Ok.
12:24:50 <asiekierka> bye!
12:24:52 <Deewiant> AnMaster: better, thanks, but could have a bit more contrast, dark blue vs. black isn't that great
12:25:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is rather bright blue on my screen
12:25:15 <AnMaster> maybe you should color calibrate your monitor?
12:25:38 <dark_templar> grab it again, I added the <32 output ignore thing
12:25:45 <asiekierka> Ok!
12:26:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: when zoomed in 200% it's not obvious at a glance, at least to me
12:26:48 <dark_templar> oh, it has NO COPYRIGHT notices!
12:27:03 <dark_templar> for the Greater Lulz.
12:28:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, odd
12:28:10 -!- makebot has joined.
12:28:17 <asiekierka> Hmm
12:28:30 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:28:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: maybe I'm just blind :-P raising blue from 122 to 192 makes it clearer to me
12:28:49 <dark_templar> what did you make it to do?
12:28:56 <dark_templar> for sure you shut it with a Ctrl-C
12:29:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, eh? I didn't upload the source file yet so how?
12:29:42 <asiekierka> Nothing, just keep talking
12:29:45 <Deewiant> AnMaster: image editing programs exist :-P
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12:30:02 <dark_templar> pwn itself
12:30:02 -!- kierkabot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:30:08 <dark_templar> oh
12:30:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah right
12:30:17 <asiekierka> pwn itse, then it shut off
12:30:20 <asiekierka> as expected
12:30:23 <asiekierka> i used
12:30:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I got a rather good monitor, maybe that is the cause
12:30:36 <asiekierka> ++++++++++>>++++++++[[<,.>-]<<.>>]
12:30:38 <asiekierka> this
12:30:45 <asiekierka> Takes 8 chars, outputs them
12:30:45 <AnMaster> if you want I can try it on a even better monitor
12:30:45 <dark_templar> I made the process not terminate itself on purpose, cuz sometimes it failed to sent messages
12:30:46 <Deewiant> AnMaster: as do I...
12:30:48 <AnMaster> I got no worse one
12:30:53 <asiekierka> And ends in a large crashlog.
12:30:55 <dark_templar> sure
12:30:59 * dark_templar goes off to buy a laptop bag
12:31:07 -!- dark_templar has quit ("happy botting!").
12:31:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Samsung SyncMaster 940B is the other monitor
12:31:20 <asiekierka> Anyone seeing me try to run Lost Kingdom on this, #esoteric-blah
12:31:21 <asiekierka> Now
12:31:24 <asiekierka> i'll soon do it
12:31:30 * AnMaster turns it on and goes to fiddle with nvidia-settings
12:31:30 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I can show you a screenshot
12:32:11 <asiekierka> Okay, it's in #esoteric-blah. Yay. :)
12:32:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well that would look correct on mine
12:32:31 -!- dark_templar has joined.
12:32:40 <dark_templar> Oh, the online bank pwned itself, I can't reset the limits on my card...
12:32:51 <dark_templar> no bag :/
12:33:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: who said that anything looks incorrect, I'm just saying that it could use more contrast :-P
12:33:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: iki.fi/deewiant/asdf.png
12:33:18 <asiekierka> Oh man
12:33:20 <asiekierka> I tried it
12:33:21 <asiekierka> it crashed
12:33:27 <asiekierka> Lost Kingdom
12:33:28 <asiekierka> omg
12:33:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, on my screen that has a lot of contrast :/
12:33:33 <Deewiant> AnMaster: "5.1 on page 10" could be clearer to me
12:33:43 <asiekierka> Testing it again
12:33:48 <dark_templar> I hate things pwning itselves
12:33:52 -!- LostKingdomBot has joined.
12:33:57 <dark_templar> Pwn urself!
12:34:01 <asiekierka> Hm... Shouldn't it output?
12:34:04 <dark_templar> Well
12:34:04 <asiekierka> It's a 2MB mess
12:34:08 <dark_templar> 2 MB what?
12:34:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: on the more zoomed out ones in the lower window it's clear enough but zoomed in that far I didn't immediately notice that those aren't black
12:34:17 <asiekierka> a 2MB text adventure game
12:34:23 <asiekierka> I'll try a smaller-sized game now
12:34:24 -!- LostKingdomBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:34:30 <dark_templar> well
12:34:32 <dark_templar> It's Python
12:34:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm
12:34:38 <dark_templar> I'm sure it can pretty handle stuff that big
12:37:00 <asiekierka> it works in a normal BF interpreter
12:37:00 <Deewiant> AnMaster: hehe, actually I can even get an optical illusion out of this: staring at the 5 long enough it looks completely black after a few seconds :-)
12:37:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I notice it both zoomed and non-zoomed on my monitors
12:37:00 <AnMaster> :/
12:37:00 <dark_templar> Well
12:37:00 <dark_templar> (idea!)
12:37:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and nop that doesn't work for me
12:37:01 -!- stackoverbotter has joined.
12:37:01 <stackoverbotter> lolz
12:37:01 * oklopol made a bot!
12:37:01 <oklopol> hi stackoverbotter!
12:37:01 <stackoverbotter> lolz
12:37:01 <dark_templar> I could append a linefeed on each of the stuff appearing in chats!
12:37:01 <asiekierka> Is it in BFirc?
12:37:01 <dark_templar> nope
12:37:01 <asiekierka> hi stackoverbotter!
12:37:01 <stackoverbotter> lolz
12:37:01 <asiekierka> oh i see
12:37:01 <asiekierka> hi
12:37:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so what color temperature do you have
12:37:01 <AnMaster> very strange
12:37:01 <asiekierka> So what is it in :P
12:37:01 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p131415515.txt i call it stackoverbotter because python doesn't have tail recursion :P
12:37:01 <stackoverbotter> lolz
12:37:01 <asiekierka> }_}
12:37:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, looking...
12:37:01 <asiekierka> So we have 3 bots here
12:37:01 <asiekierka> And soon a 4th joins
12:37:01 <asiekierka> Yay :(
12:37:01 <oklopol> let's add my bf interpreter there
12:37:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well one screen only says "warm/normal/cool", set to normal, that is the least good monitor
12:37:42 <AnMaster> trying to find it in the menu system of the other monitor now
12:37:54 <dark_templar> grab it again
12:37:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: doesn't sound like a good monitor if it can't even tell you what temperature you have ;-)
12:38:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I said the least good
12:38:07 <asiekierka> Testing "Taking Over The World"
12:38:08 <dark_templar> it now adds a linefeed on each IRC message
12:38:11 -!- LostKingdomBot has joined.
12:38:13 <AnMaster> which is consumer crap but actually works well
12:38:17 <asiekierka> Yay, this works
12:38:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the other one got a crappy menu system
12:38:40 <dark_templar> Hey, it pwned itself!
12:38:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so it isn't that good either ;-)
12:38:42 <AnMaster> stop this notice spam please
12:38:42 <AnMaster> ....
12:38:46 -!- LostKingdomBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:38:52 <asiekierka> Ok
12:38:56 <asiekierka> Let me move it to -blah then
12:39:03 <dark_templar> kk
12:39:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, apart from this menu system it is good
12:39:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so, in total, it isn't good. ;-)
12:41:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it says it is "D65"
12:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but there will probably be some API to specify output as a string or something..
12:41:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: 6500 K then I guess
12:41:47 <Deewiant> I use 9300 myself
12:41:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, pl
12:41:58 <AnMaster> ok*
12:42:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and well the cheaper monitor looks the same
12:42:18 <Deewiant> but yeah, that doesn't make much of a difference
12:42:28 <AnMaster> consumer crap but looks as good
12:42:34 <asiekierka> Another problem found
12:42:34 <AnMaster> so I guess it is the same then too
12:42:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, or very close
12:42:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so it's more likely the problem is in my background lighting, eyes, or brain. :-)
12:43:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, background lighting here is outside daylight as reflected from a typical red Swedish house
12:43:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so have you tried increasing the blue to 192 and seeing if that makes ig ugly for you
12:43:18 <AnMaster> ie, this room got morning sun
12:43:20 <Deewiant> s/ig/it/
12:43:23 <AnMaster> it is a clear sky
12:43:27 <Deewiant> it's raining here
12:43:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, will try
12:43:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway since it is afternoon, no direct sun
12:44:49 <AnMaster> err
12:44:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 192?
12:44:57 <AnMaster> \definecolor{theblue} {rgb}{0.02,0.04,0.48}
12:45:00 <AnMaster> is the current line
12:45:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: 192 in the range 0-255
12:45:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, can't be arsed to convert
12:45:13 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so 0.75
12:45:36 <AnMaster> uggly
12:45:40 <Deewiant> :-P
12:45:41 <AnMaster> really hurts my eyes
12:45:45 <AnMaster> too sharp blue
12:45:53 <Deewiant> do you have brightness set to 300% or something? ;-P
12:46:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, to 85%
12:46:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 100% on the cheaper monitor
12:46:36 <AnMaster> they match pretty closely then
12:46:38 <Deewiant> AnMaster: how about underlining or bolding or italicizing links or something
12:46:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no idea how to do that
12:47:10 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/MUTMR695.html
12:47:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: \underline, \textbf, \textit
12:47:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, see what I pasted
12:47:30 <AnMaster> it is the hyperref package that does it
12:48:05 <Deewiant> eugh
12:48:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, eh?
12:48:37 <Deewiant> AnMaster: set colorlinks to false? or was that what it was before?
12:48:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that would make them black
12:49:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: was that what it was before.
12:49:03 <AnMaster> before it was set as black by mistake
12:49:04 <asiekierka> Yay
12:49:08 <asiekierka> Taking Over The World works now
12:49:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: just set it to false
12:49:12 <AnMaster> as in not "theblue" but =black
12:49:21 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that should put a frame around them
12:49:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, underlines are uggly
12:49:27 <Deewiant> AnMaster: which is also good because they are not printed then
12:49:27 <AnMaster> and the frames even worse
12:49:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the frame is even worse IMO
12:49:42 <AnMaster> also who the heck would print this!?
12:49:49 <Deewiant> AnMaster: .......................
12:49:57 <Deewiant> why the hell is it a PDF if it's only for on-screen viewing
12:49:59 <Deewiant> ??
12:50:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I didn't think anyone would be crazy enough to implement it, yet alone print it :P
12:50:38 <Deewiant> if you don't care about printing and stuff like that then make it into HTML
12:50:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I can try to make it a different blue then
12:50:52 <Deewiant> if you do care, set colorlinks=false and use the frames :-P
12:51:00 <Deewiant> there are no other options here
12:51:09 <Deewiant> if it's a PDF it should be printer-friendly
12:51:12 <Deewiant> because that's the whole point
12:51:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I will try to use the same blue as wikipedia use in it's links
12:51:23 <AnMaster> less intensive
12:51:26 <AnMaster> yet I assume readable
12:51:51 <AnMaster> that is, external links
12:52:04 <AnMaster> or do you disagree again?
12:52:24 <asiekierka> http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py - yay, BFirc is finally done and fixed.
12:52:27 <asiekierka> Slow, but compatible.
12:52:34 <Deewiant> I disagree in that since this is a PDF you shouldn't be colouring stuff that only matters when viewed in a PDF viewer
12:53:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, those frames disrupt the flow of the text, make it hard to read
12:53:36 <AnMaster> I might as well drop the clickability
12:53:42 <AnMaster> would at least make you stop complain
12:54:03 <dark_templar> hey, is PDF an esoland?
12:54:11 <dark_templar> esolang*?
12:54:25 <AnMaster> nop
12:54:33 <Deewiant> AnMaster: why do you want to use a PDF?
12:54:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, fine, now you want me to upload it as *.dvi I assume?
12:54:57 <Deewiant> AnMaster: HTML
12:55:08 <oklopol> god this is hard, i'm basically copypasting code, and it's simply impossible to the the parens right
12:55:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, html is a language I hate to write in
12:55:24 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so don't write HTML, use markdown or restructuredText or whatever
12:55:31 <AnMaster> even worse
12:55:35 <Deewiant> and then generate HTML
12:55:39 <AnMaster> and typographically a horror
12:55:46 <Deewiant> err, what? elaborate
12:56:20 <AnMaster> what do you mean?
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12:56:45 <AnMaster> typographically, the web pages rendered by a browser is a horror
12:56:46 <Deewiant> firstly, how is it worse than LaTeX which is just as bad as HTML in that you can't see the content for the markup
12:56:56 <Deewiant> erm
12:56:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, did I ever say that?
12:57:05 <AnMaster> nop I don't think I did
12:57:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: no, that's what I said
12:57:16 <Deewiant> LaTeX is as bad as HTML in that respect
12:57:21 <AnMaster> I didn't say that was a problem with html
12:57:28 <AnMaster> so I fail to see the relevance of it
12:57:33 <AnMaster> bbl
12:57:34 <Deewiant> so what is your problem with HTML
12:58:04 <dark_templar> 1) save webpages as Pascal programs 2) execute them at runtime 3) let them write the webpage with Graph module
12:58:49 <Deewiant> and as far as HTML typography, if you hate it then view it in PDF yourself
12:59:07 <Deewiant> others don't care, I'd rather have a plaintext file than a PDF in this case since there's zero advantage to having it be a PDF
12:59:15 <asiekierka> Evil Idea of the day: A legal TV signal broadcast station :)
12:59:32 <Deewiant> just write it in markdown/whatever, and generate HTML and PDF from that
13:00:00 <asiekierka> How can i do a legal TV signal broadcasting station?
13:00:07 <Deewiant> you get your pretty ligatures and others get something that's easy to work with
13:01:10 <Deewiant> AnMaster: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/why-not-pdf.html
13:06:04 -!- stackoverbotter has joined.
13:06:04 <stackoverbotter> lolz
13:06:18 <AnMaster> back
13:06:27 <oklopol> &%#bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+++.!!!lol
13:06:27 <stackoverbotter> C
13:06:35 <oklopol> yay
13:06:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that paper is outdated, "xpdf 0.91 crashes;". well last version of xpdf seems to be 3.02, 0.91 was many years ago
13:06:53 <AnMaster> I don't think anyone use it today
13:06:59 <AnMaster> so you shall have your postscript variant
13:07:00 <AnMaster> sure
13:07:06 <AnMaster> I will make that if you want
13:07:12 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p134611352.txt
13:07:22 <oklopol> absolutely no checking for malicious thingies
13:07:28 <oklopol> so feel free to kline me
13:07:55 <asiekierka> Will you be back from the shop
13:07:58 <asiekierka> darktemplar
13:08:23 <asiekierka> Oh well
13:08:29 <asiekierka> Now i'm going to write my IRCBOTTEN
13:08:47 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that wasn't the point, the arguments are still valid
13:09:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: mostly the one on-screen reading
13:09:06 <Deewiant> s/one/one about/
13:09:10 <oklopol> that irc bot is exactly why i hate purely functional programming
13:09:13 <oklopol> in the unlambda sense
13:09:16 <Deewiant> s/one/ones/g gah
13:09:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: i.e. the point is the content, not the formatting
13:10:21 <oklopol> hmm what next, i've kinda exceeded my uselessness limit already
13:10:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, show me a browser that can properly do formatting then?
13:10:29 <Deewiant> AnMaster: define "properly"
13:10:30 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:10:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with correct optically right margins, ie, microtypography
13:10:58 <Deewiant> AnMaster: define "correct"
13:11:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Textformatting.svg
13:11:54 <AnMaster> decide which is easiest to read
13:12:06 <AnMaster> with the best margins
13:12:23 <Deewiant> AnMaster: about the same IMO
13:12:51 <AnMaster> I find the left one easier to read
13:12:53 <AnMaster> by far
13:13:16 <Deewiant> I was almost going to say the right one is easier but decided they're about the same
13:13:17 <AnMaster> I find bad typography really really disturbing when reading
13:13:32 -!- dark_templar has quit.
13:13:54 <Deewiant> I just read the text and ignore what it looks like :-P
13:13:59 -!- asiekierka has joined.
13:14:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well that's you
13:14:07 <Deewiant> (of course I'm exaggerating but you get my point)
13:14:51 -!- dark_templar has joined.
13:15:00 <Deewiant> I do notice stuff like ligatures, but I don't think they affect readability
13:15:04 <asiekierka> hi darktemplar
13:15:09 <Deewiant> sure, the text on the left looks a lot nicer
13:15:11 <asiekierka> Seems either my code has a bug
13:15:13 <asiekierka> or yours does
13:15:20 <Deewiant> but I think it's just as readable as the one on the right
13:15:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I disagree there
13:15:29 <asiekierka> pasting the code in a secondie
13:15:44 -!- dark_templar has left (?).
13:15:49 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/avNNHL38.html
13:15:54 <asiekierka> Great. I wonder why this doesn't work
13:16:39 <Deewiant> AnMaster: do you want me to take over the protocol spec? I can produce HTML for myself and a nice PDF for you :-P
13:17:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I intend to try to find a working color
13:17:26 <asiekierka> Oh
13:17:26 <asiekierka> i know
13:17:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, think I found one
13:17:51 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I was serious though, I'd rather even write it myself since I'm actually implementing it now
13:18:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, new uploaded
13:18:10 <AnMaster> check it
13:18:27 <Deewiant> wow, red
13:18:48 <Deewiant> sure, better
13:20:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
13:21:02 <oklopol> i should make a compiler from python to purely functional python
13:24:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: but do you feel like you still want to work on it? I can take it off your back
13:24:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what do you intend to do with it?
13:24:46 <AnMaster> how much would you change it
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13:25:20 <Deewiant> the biggest changes would probably be the stuff I talked about in the e-mail I sent you a while back
13:25:46 <Deewiant> mostly simplifying it: make pre-run and stopped the same state, join breakpoints and events
13:25:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, email? my email haven't been working the last week
13:26:00 <Deewiant> maybe add some stuff (like the missing stack stack stuff)
13:26:14 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
13:26:27 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it was the one where you complained that I used "--"
13:26:32 <AnMaster> ah that
13:27:21 <AnMaster> well I can send you the lyx file
13:27:24 <asiekierka> http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles/ - when i watch that thing with an orange portal, my mind alternates between it being outside and inside at once
13:28:19 <Deewiant> AnMaster: sure, but I can always even write it from scratch myself, the main point here is that I'd rather not have us both writing the same thing independently :-)
13:29:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, true
13:29:04 <oklopol> let's all write it independently and kick the ones that are slow
13:29:14 * Deewiant kicks oklopol
13:29:34 <oklopol> hey!
13:29:38 <oklopol> i'm very fast
13:29:45 <oklopol> that's the one thing i can do
13:29:46 <Deewiant> AnMaster won, sorry ;-)
13:30:05 <AnMaster> oklopol, yeah draft 2 is already written by me, like draft 1
13:30:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also I feel that the official name should be the long: Funge protocol for interpreter tracing and debugging
13:30:32 <Deewiant> wasn't draft 2 just a few spelling corrections
13:30:34 <AnMaster> maybe you could make it even longer
13:30:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nah it was a bit more iirc
13:30:47 <Deewiant> AnMaster: why not just "Foo: the Funge protocol for..."
13:30:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, too easy!
13:30:57 <Deewiant> so there's a short official name "Foo"
13:31:14 <Deewiant> and you can just say "this interpreter is Foo compatible" or whatever
13:32:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, .tar.lzma or tar.bz2?
13:32:19 <AnMaster> which format to you prefer for the files
13:32:29 <Deewiant> whatever
13:32:38 <AnMaster> .lzma then
13:33:29 <AnMaster> http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/tmp/funge-frontend-protocol.tar.lzma
13:33:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ^
13:33:38 <AnMaster> hope you can open it
13:33:46 <AnMaster> if not just ask and I'll redo as .bz2
13:35:45 <Deewiant> why not just use 7-zip, it uses the same algorithm and you don't need to have a tar in between :-P
13:36:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, harder to use
13:36:39 <AnMaster> at least for me
13:36:46 <AnMaster> would have to learn a new program
13:37:05 <Deewiant> you already had to learn lzma
13:37:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, same interface as bzip2 and gzip
13:37:55 <AnMaster> so I fail to see your point
13:38:06 <AnMaster> lzma --best my-archive.tar
13:38:07 <Deewiant> maybe the linux version does
13:38:18 <Deewiant> the windows one has a very unique interface :-P
13:38:26 <oklopol> it's not about time of finishing, but about the time taken to write it
13:38:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I don't use windows
13:38:30 <Deewiant> AnMaster: why not tar -cjf in the first place
13:38:38 <oklopol> anyawy, i didn't even know what you were talking about, assumed a program
13:38:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that would produce bzip2
13:38:41 <asiekierka> I'm going to make another IRCmod of a language, possibly
13:38:42 <oklopol> *way
13:38:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, fine if that is what you wan
13:38:47 <AnMaster> want*
13:39:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yes exactly, so my point is why prefer typing a separate command to just adding a char :-)
13:39:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but this way I saved 381 bytes ;)!
13:39:09 <AnMaster> just kidding
13:39:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: but you used up 140KB storing the uncompressed version before you put it through lzma
13:39:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I can reclaim that after
13:39:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, or
13:40:04 <Deewiant> yes, after, but in the meanwhile your hard drive is now that much closer to failure ;-)
13:40:21 <Deewiant> and I find it a good habit anyway since if you're on a drive with low disk space that can matter
13:40:30 <AnMaster> tar -cf - mydir | lzma --best -c - > mycompressed-file
13:40:33 <AnMaster> I think that may work
13:40:37 <AnMaster> or something like it
13:40:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm not that low ;P
13:40:51 <AnMaster> also I got backups
13:40:52 <AnMaster> on tape
13:41:03 <Deewiant> and now you have to look up flags again since you only know it's "something like it" ;-)
13:41:20 <Deewiant> and yeah, but like said, I find it a good habit since you can get that low
13:41:28 <Deewiant> or if you're on a network drive or whatever
13:42:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, heck I bet I could even pipe it into ssh to make the compressed archive only show up on the server
13:42:36 <AnMaster> not that I plan to try
13:42:42 <AnMaster> but I'm almost sure it is possible
13:45:06 <Deewiant> heh
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14:08:52 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: there's a bug in your X in 3DSP
14:09:08 <Deewiant> or at least in your test for it
14:09:41 <MikeRiley> ok, what is the bug??
14:10:15 <Deewiant> I don't know, but the answer the test wants is wrong
14:10:33 <MikeRiley> and what do you believe the answer should be???
14:10:33 <Deewiant> neither matrix*vector or vector*matrix gives the result the test expects
14:10:57 <Deewiant> one moment, I will check using Mathematica to make sure it's right ;-)
14:11:01 <MikeRiley> ok
14:12:27 <oklopol> does all mycology test fingerprints?
14:13:03 <MikeRiley> mycology tests many fingerprints
14:13:16 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: using premultiplication which I guess is what you want (i.e. matrix*vector) it should be 5.50897 1.98446 7.98205
14:13:31 <Deewiant> the other way around it is 1.11603 7.66506 10.326
14:13:51 <ais523> oklopol: it doesn't test some fingerprints, for instance I don't think anyone but me dared write a test program for IFFI
14:13:58 <oklopol> iffi?
14:14:06 <ais523> Intercal-like Foreign Function Interface
14:14:13 <oklopol> intercal-like, right
14:14:16 <ais523> which I spent a month or so writing, to combine C-INTERCAL and cfunge
14:14:39 <MikeRiley> deewiant: your results appear to be missing the translation operation...
14:14:42 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: oh, and what the hell is MVRS, it looks scary and TRDS-like in its feralness :-P
14:14:45 <ais523> in theory it could work without an INTERCAL implementation, for instance you could connect two IFFI-enabled Funge interps with it in theory
14:14:57 <ais523> but in practice the only implementation anyone did was C-INTERCAL <-> cfunge
14:15:09 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: I'm just using the "transform matrix on concatenating with Z" you give at the end of the file
14:15:17 <MikeRiley> will explain MVRS in a moment,,,want to make sure the 3DSP is right..
14:15:19 <Deewiant> and multiplying it with (1 2 3 1)
14:15:36 <MikeRiley> understood deewiant,,,,but the calculation i am using may not be exactly the same....
14:15:53 <MikeRiley> checking it right now with calculcations i got from a book an doing 3d graphics...
14:15:54 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: CCBI gives what Mathematica gives
14:16:09 <Deewiant> i.e. 5.51 1.98 7.98
14:16:55 <MikeRiley> which is (1 2 3) less than my results,,,,,which is minus the translation operation...
14:17:24 <Deewiant> translation isn't an addition
14:17:33 <MikeRiley> was in the book i have.....
14:17:44 <Deewiant> and in any case, I get GOOD for all the tests before that (except N which assumes something about rounding)
14:17:58 <MikeRiley> yes, n does not assume rounding,,,
14:18:06 <MikeRiley> need to fix that a bit....
14:18:15 <MikeRiley> mine shows good,,,,but rounding could make it show bad...
14:18:18 <oklopol> o
14:18:20 <Deewiant> well your test gives BAD because it expects 0.444 or something when I get 0.445
14:18:39 <Deewiant> and 0.445 is actually closer to the correct result which is 0.4448 or so ;-)
14:18:54 <MikeRiley> which precision were you calculating with??
14:19:28 <Deewiant> I use floats but I the compiler may increase the precision if it thinks it's a good idea
14:19:29 <MikeRiley> i will probably modify that test a bit in order to fix possible rounding issues...
14:19:33 <Deewiant> s/I the/the/
14:19:58 <MikeRiley> i thought at the time that rounding issues may cause a problem..
14:20:14 <Deewiant> i.e. if I do float x = y * z then the compiler might choose to calculate y*z as long double before making it float
14:20:18 <MikeRiley> Rc/Funge-98 is using double for all those calculations...
14:20:58 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: looking at your source for X, Vector_Matrix_Mul looks wrong
14:21:12 <MikeRiley> that formula came from a book,,,,
14:21:26 <MikeRiley> and the more i think about it,,, which used that for a specific task...
14:21:27 <Deewiant> the last ones added should be b.c[3][0] and [3][1] etc instead of [0][3] [1][3]
14:21:33 <MikeRiley> mainly reorient an object,,,and then move it...
14:21:36 <Deewiant> just like all the others are
14:21:41 <MikeRiley> so probably not the best formula to use...
14:22:21 <MikeRiley> you have a wrong version....here is what is in vector.c:
14:22:40 <MikeRiley> struct VECTOR3 Vector_Matrix_Mul(struct VECTOR3 a,struct MATRIX b)
14:22:40 <MikeRiley> {
14:22:40 <MikeRiley> struct VECTOR3 Result;
14:22:40 <MikeRiley> Result.x=a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[0][3];
14:22:40 <MikeRiley> Result.y=a.x*b.c[0][1]+a.y*b.c[1][1]+a.z*b.c[2][1]+b.c[1][3];
14:22:41 <MikeRiley> Result.z=a.x*b.c[0][2]+a.y*b.c[1][2]+a.z*b.c[2][2]+b.c[2][3];
14:22:43 <MikeRiley> return Result;
14:22:44 <Deewiant> I downloaded it today :-P
14:22:45 <MikeRiley> }
14:22:48 <Deewiant> yes, and that is wrong
14:22:49 <Deewiant> see
14:22:55 <Deewiant> a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[0][3];
14:22:57 <MikeRiley> the version on the website does not have the fixed code...
14:23:04 <Deewiant> why [0][0] [1][0] [2][0] [0][3]
14:23:09 <Deewiant> why is the last one in a different order
14:23:15 <Deewiant> it should be [3][0]
14:23:28 <MikeRiley> [3][0] would have zero in it...
14:23:55 <Deewiant> it should be consistent
14:23:58 <MikeRiley> a translation matrix for (1 2 3) would look like:
14:24:00 <MikeRiley> 1 0 0 0
14:24:03 <MikeRiley> 0 1 0 0
14:24:05 <MikeRiley> 0 0 1 0
14:24:08 <MikeRiley> 1 2 3 1
14:24:23 <Deewiant> fine, but in any case that formula should be consistent
14:24:25 <MikeRiley> again,,,this came from a book i have...
14:24:50 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: that formula gives incorrect results, Result is neither a*b nor b*a
14:24:52 <MikeRiley> they may have done things differently...
14:25:07 <Deewiant> (b*transpose(a) to be exact)
14:25:27 <Deewiant> if your storage is like that then I think flipping the others' order may help
14:25:32 <MikeRiley> do not know what their intention was....but my code comes up with their results....
14:25:36 <Deewiant> because it has to be consistent
14:25:40 <MikeRiley> they may have been doing somethign a bit different...
14:26:48 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: what do you get from multiplying {{1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 1}} with {{1,2,3,1}}
14:27:10 <MikeRiley> i will look deeper into it,,,,look for some different formulas...
14:27:30 <MikeRiley> again,,,the intent of this book may have been slightly different than what you are expecting....
14:27:31 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: you can look on wikipedia for the formula for multiplying two matrices together...
14:27:39 <Deewiant> the intent should and does not matter
14:27:43 <MikeRiley> i know the formulat for multiplying two matrices...
14:27:47 <Deewiant> the fact is, that code does not multiply a vector by a matrix
14:28:12 <MikeRiley> intent does matter,,,if this book was using the matrices in a different way,,,it would matter about the formula they used....
14:28:17 <MikeRiley> either that,,,,or the book has it wrong...
14:28:51 <Deewiant> intent can't matter, multiplying two matrices together is a very well defined operation, if they do it differently it's not matrix multiplication
14:28:59 <MikeRiley> i understand that....
14:29:02 <Deewiant> the book may have a mistake indeed
14:29:11 <Deewiant> or you miscopied it, which I also think is a possibility
14:29:14 <MikeRiley> i agree,,,the book could have mistake in it...
14:29:23 <MikeRiley> i am looking at the book right now....matches my formulas...
14:29:38 <Deewiant> have you tried changing the order of those from [1][0] to [0][1]?
14:29:44 <MikeRiley> no miscopy....but definitely possible the book has them wrong
14:29:47 <Deewiant> maybe the formulas match but your storage order differs
14:30:05 <MikeRiley> no,,,using all the matrix/vector functions from this book....
14:30:16 <MikeRiley> and my results match the results from the book,,,,,
14:30:22 <Deewiant> give me an example result
14:30:28 <MikeRiley> so my code matches the book,,,,but the book may be wrong...
14:30:43 <MikeRiley> the example from the book is the example in the 3DSP test...
14:30:51 <Deewiant> well then the book is wrong
14:30:53 <MikeRiley> that is how i knew the results to test...
14:30:57 <MikeRiley> i can accept that...
14:31:04 <Deewiant> like said, I posted above the two possible results of that multiplication
14:31:08 <Deewiant> depending on which order it's done in
14:31:12 <Deewiant> and what the test expects is neither
14:31:38 <MikeRiley> i will look deeper into it....chances are the book i have is wrong....
14:33:16 <MikeRiley> anyhow...will get it straightened out and redo the test program to have correct results....
14:33:52 <Deewiant> alright, thanks
14:33:58 <Deewiant> now what about MVRS??
14:35:13 <MikeRiley> MVRS is a support fingerprint for a new feature in Rc/Funge-98 V2,,,,essentially concurrent concurrent funge...
14:35:22 <ais523> concurrent concurrent funge?
14:35:30 <MikeRiley> V2 can run multiple funges at once....
14:35:42 <pikhq> That's fiendish. :)
14:35:43 <MikeRiley> MVRS allows for data copy between funges,,,,
14:35:55 <MikeRiley> as well as the ability of an IP to travel to another funge...
14:36:04 <ais523> even C-INTERCAL can only have one Funge linked in at a time right now
14:36:27 <Deewiant> I was afraid it would be something like that :-p
14:36:34 <MikeRiley> V2 can now run an unlimited (well limited by memory) number of virtual machines...
14:36:41 <ais523> MikeRiley: can they have different numbers of dimensions?
14:36:46 <MikeRiley> yes they can
14:36:51 <Deewiant> egads
14:37:03 <MikeRiley> also,,,one can be running funge/98 while another is running funge/93 or or funge/108
14:37:23 <MikeRiley> one can be running befunge while another is running unefunge or trefunge...
14:37:32 <MikeRiley> each VM is its own universe....
14:37:36 <ais523> MikeRiley: can any of them run programs other than funges?
14:37:56 <MikeRiley> i suppose it is possible,,,,but only funges are defined...
14:38:04 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: are they synchronized? i.e. all at the same tick (forgetting about TRDS)
14:38:20 <MikeRiley> there is a note in the manual concerning TRDS
14:38:31 <ais523> although I suppose that if you have the ability to redefine commands other than A-Z, you could easily write something in Funge that changed a Funge interpreter into a Brainfuck interpreter by redefining []+-,.<>
14:38:31 <Deewiant> unfortunately there is no manual about it online
14:38:34 <Deewiant> only the test
14:38:36 <MikeRiley> each universe is its own...TRDS only effects the universe it is running in...and no others....
14:38:47 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: but still, doesn't answer my question, are they synchronized
14:39:09 <MikeRiley> as far as tick count....they are not synchronized if you use TRDS
14:39:13 <MikeRiley> otherwise they will be
14:39:20 <Deewiant> okay, so they are
14:39:29 <Deewiant> that makes it a bit easier to reason about :-)
14:39:38 <MikeRiley> jumping backwards in TRDS would change the tick count for only universe where somethign went backwards...
14:40:09 <MikeRiley> the code that executes this,,,,,loops over each VM,,,,which in each VM there is code that loops over each IP....
14:40:28 <MikeRiley> so once all the IPs in one VM have run,,,,then the next one will execute all of its IPs, etc...
14:41:03 <MikeRiley> the spec for MVRS is still in change...but here is what there is of it so far:
14:41:05 <MikeRiley> "MVRS" 0x4d565253
14:41:05 <MikeRiley> -----------------
14:41:05 <MikeRiley> B (0gnirts flags--) - Big-Bang, create another universe
14:41:05 <MikeRiley> C ( -- n) - Number of existing universes
14:41:05 <MikeRiley> F (0gnirts Vd Vs Vsz) - Copy funge-space from another universe
14:41:06 <MikeRiley> G (0gnirts Vp Vd) - Go to another universe
14:41:08 <MikeRiley> J (0gnirts --) - Jump to new universe
14:41:10 <MikeRiley> N ( -- 0gnirts) - Get name of current universe
14:41:12 <MikeRiley> P (0gnirts Vd Vs Vsz) - Copy funge-space to another universe
14:41:14 <MikeRiley> F source vector must be x,y,z even if source universe is unefunge or befunge
14:41:16 <MikeRiley> F size vector is based upon current universe
14:41:18 <MikeRiley> J keeps position and delta
14:41:20 <MikeRiley> Any command specifying a universe will reflect if the universe does
14:41:22 <MikeRiley> not exist
14:41:22 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: so hmm, they are still executed discretely?
14:41:24 <MikeRiley> B Flags:
14:41:26 <MikeRiley> 1 - Unefunge
14:41:28 <MikeRiley> 2 - Befunge
14:41:30 <MikeRiley> 3 - Trefunge
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14:41:32 <MikeRiley> 4 - Funge/93
14:41:34 <MikeRiley> 8 - Funge/98
14:41:35 <ais523> hi tusho
14:41:36 <MikeRiley> 12 - Funge/108
14:41:38 <MikeRiley> 16 - Supress summary
14:41:40 <MikeRiley> 32 - Enable debugger
14:41:42 <MikeRiley> 64 - Enable trace mode
14:41:44 <MikeRiley> 128 - Official version of y
14:41:45 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: you should really consider pastebins or something
14:41:46 <MikeRiley> Defaults:
14:41:48 <MikeRiley> Befunge
14:41:50 <MikeRiley> Funge/98
14:41:52 <MikeRiley> yes
14:41:54 <MikeRiley> they are not independently executed...so they are cycle synced...
14:42:01 <MikeRiley> pastebins???
14:42:22 <ais523> MikeRiley: instead of putting a lot of text into the channel, you put it into a pastebin and link to the pastebin
14:42:23 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: i.e. places on the 'Net where you can paste stuff, as opposed to pasting to IRC :-)
14:42:26 <KingOfKarlsruhe> like http://paste.pocoo.org/
14:42:33 <MikeRiley> oh...ok,,,,
14:42:34 <tusho> that was scripted ais523
14:42:36 <tusho> MikeRiley: stop flooding
14:42:38 <tusho> MikeRiley: pastebin.ca
14:42:40 <tusho> so that you don't flood the channel
14:42:40 <ais523> tusho: no it wasn't
14:42:45 <tusho> ais523: :)
14:42:50 <ais523> I happened to be reading what MikeRiley was saying at the time
14:42:53 <ais523> and just typed it when I saw you log in
14:43:04 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: so hmm, if you do F in universe B then universe A has already executed and you'll get this tick's universe A instead of last tick's?
14:43:42 <MikeRiley> correct
14:43:52 <MikeRiley> however the universe looks at the time F is executed
14:44:00 <Deewiant> or is it defined to be in the reverse order like IPs
14:44:18 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: what do you mean
14:44:18 <ais523> re the topic: someone should write an API to get the entire backlog of #esoteric as a string or something
14:44:38 <ais523> probably optbot, it seems to claim there would be
14:44:38 <optbot> ais523: or objc
14:44:59 <MikeRiley> the code for F is simple....merly do a funge-space copy....however the source exists at the time of execution is what you get...
14:45:21 <MikeRiley> does not matter what cycle any universe might be in...
14:49:06 <MikeRiley> i put a copy of the V2 source on my site if you want to see what i am doing. http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2.tgz
14:50:11 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: you should fix the MIME types on your site
14:50:21 <MikeRiley> i have no control over them
14:50:22 <Deewiant> that is most definitely not text/html :-P
14:50:28 <MikeRiley> i agree....
14:50:42 <MikeRiley> at least i do not think i do....let me look....
14:50:45 <Deewiant> where do you host your stuff
14:51:17 <MikeRiley> ipower.com
14:51:58 <MikeRiley> looking now to see if i can change the mime types...
14:52:00 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: they do advertise "Customizable MIME Types"
14:52:39 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,looking.....not finding it so far....
14:53:08 <Deewiant> well I don't know about their user interface but it /should/ be there and if you can't find it, complain to them :-P
14:53:45 <MikeRiley> might have to.....been through half the stuff there,,,and so far no mime types
14:54:37 <Deewiant> hmm, looks like MVRS is going to force me to rewrite my interpreter :-)
14:55:01 <MikeRiley> i had to rewrite mine....
14:55:09 <ais523> Deewiant: do you still aim to implement every fingerprint ever?
14:55:23 <MikeRiley> but at the same time,,,will now allow me to replace my mini-funge with a much more powerful one...
14:55:33 <Deewiant> ais523: I never did, so don't hold your breath on IFFI ;-)
14:55:37 <ais523> ok
14:55:52 <Deewiant> ais523: WIND and FING were the two that I consciously decided not to, earlier
14:56:07 <MikeRiley> Rc/Funge-98 probably supports more fingerprints than anything,,,but sill not all of them that exist...
14:56:19 <MikeRiley> and FNGR deewiant??? eheheeheheheh
14:56:33 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: did I confuse FING and FNGR?
14:56:38 <MikeRiley> yes you did
14:56:43 <MikeRiley> FING is the new one...
14:56:49 <MikeRiley> FNGR is the big scary one...
14:56:51 <Deewiant> alright, so WIND and FNGR then
14:57:57 <MikeRiley> well,,,if ipower supports customizable mime types...they are not on my control panel anywhere....
14:58:13 <MikeRiley> and probably all the SysV IPC ones as well deewiant???
14:58:21 <ais523> I feel so proud, I managed to make a fingerprint that everyone's scared of implementing
14:58:44 <tusho> there should be an EVAL fingerprint
14:58:46 <tusho> that's my contribution
14:58:53 <ais523> tusho: that evaluates what?
14:58:56 <ais523> PERL evaluates Perl
14:58:59 <tusho> ais523: befunge-98
14:59:00 <tusho> duh
14:59:03 <tusho> er
14:59:06 <tusho> funge-98
14:59:09 <ais523> tusho: couldn't you just use a goto?
14:59:10 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: yes, I won't implement any non-portable ones
14:59:14 <ais523> or MikeRiley's MVRS?
14:59:18 <tusho> ais523: maybe?
14:59:20 <tusho> i dunno :D
14:59:23 <Deewiant> ais523: are the docs for it somewhere
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14:59:57 <Deewiant> IFFI, that is
14:59:58 <ais523> Deewiant: yes they are, I'll compile them for you though because I think they're only in source form on the Internet atm
15:00:03 <ais523> I'll put compiled documentation up for you
15:00:14 <Deewiant> great :-)
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15:00:36 <MikeRiley> what would EVAL do???? that cannot already be done???
15:00:49 <tusho> MikeRiley: not sure
15:00:50 <tusho> hmm
15:00:54 <tusho> different dimensions
15:00:54 <MikeRiley> eheheh
15:00:58 <tusho> you could execute trefunge in befunge
15:01:06 <tusho> by passing ( code 3 ) to the eval command
15:01:11 <MikeRiley> MVRS in a way could let you do that...
15:01:21 <tusho> as well as unefunge in befunge, etc with ( code 1 )
15:01:38 <MikeRiley> interesting idea...just wonder if it really has any use...
15:02:00 <tusho> MikeRiley: Do most funge things have a use? :)
15:02:07 <tusho> fizzie
15:02:11 <tusho> could use it for fungot
15:02:17 <tusho> (as an ^eval command only he could use)
15:02:18 <MikeRiley> well....no....except keep people like us busy messing with it!!!! eheheheeheheheheheh
15:02:27 <tusho> but then you could just do a goto in that case
15:02:32 <tusho> still, the different-dimensions thing is nice
15:02:48 <ais523> http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/doc/html/guplsbpq.htm#The-IFFI-Fingerprint
15:02:50 <ais523> Deewiant: ^
15:02:58 <Deewiant> cheers
15:05:18 <ais523> the joys of distributed version control, I can compile the documentation directly in the repository and it doesn't break anything
15:08:18 <Deewiant> ais523: that's some deep funge-intercal entanglement going on there :-P
15:08:26 <ais523> Deewiant: yes, it is
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15:08:42 <ais523> the Funge program can even change the syntax of the INTERCAL program by adding new commands
15:08:45 <ais523> or new operators
15:12:17 <tusho> Suggested name for bridges of this sort: Esolang intercourse.
15:14:31 <Deewiant> or just esoteric intercourse
15:14:53 <tusho> Yes, that flows better. (<-- Man, that wasn't even intentional)
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15:15:11 <MikeRiley> deewiant,, do you know what your final transform matrix looks like??? want to see if yours and mine are the same now...
15:15:55 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: everything up to what X expects after the call are the same as what the test expects
15:16:55 <MikeRiley> here is what mine looks like now:
15:17:04 <MikeRiley> 0.750 -0.433 1.874 5.508
15:17:04 <MikeRiley> 0.433 1.750 -0.649 1.984
15:17:04 <MikeRiley> -0.500 0.866 2.249 7.982
15:17:04 <MikeRiley> 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000
15:17:33 <MikeRiley> this is the final one,,,after all the rotations ahave been multiplied in...
15:18:10 <Deewiant> so it looks like you changed from column vectors to row vectors
15:18:25 <MikeRiley> only thing i changed wat the translation matrix...
15:18:39 <MikeRiley> the rest are unchanged
15:18:45 <Deewiant> so what code did you change?
15:18:49 <MikeRiley> so translation produces this now:
15:18:51 <MikeRiley> 1 0 0 x
15:18:54 <MikeRiley> 0 1 0 y
15:18:57 <MikeRiley> 0 0 1 z
15:18:59 <MikeRiley> 0 0 1 1
15:19:08 <MikeRiley> instead of the x y z on row 3...
15:19:08 <Deewiant> 0 0 0 1 probably
15:19:17 <MikeRiley> yes,,,on that last row...
15:19:25 <MikeRiley> i changed the code that generates translation matrices...
15:20:08 <MikeRiley> new code creates them as above....old code made these:
15:20:10 <MikeRiley> 1 0 0 0
15:20:13 <MikeRiley> 0 1 0 0
15:20:15 <MikeRiley> 0 0 1 0
15:20:17 <MikeRiley> x y z 1
15:20:35 <MikeRiley> no other code has changed at this point...
15:21:10 <MikeRiley> and changed vector_matrix_mul to this:
15:21:14 <MikeRiley> Result.x=a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[3][0];
15:21:14 <MikeRiley> Result.y=a.x*b.c[0][1]+a.y*b.c[1][1]+a.z*b.c[2][1]+b.c[3][1];
15:21:14 <MikeRiley> Result.z=a.x*b.c[0][2]+a.y*b.c[1][2]+a.z*b.c[2][2]+b.c[3][2];
15:23:06 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: so now T says the matrix is wrong in that test... :-P
15:23:47 <MikeRiley> yes,,,,i fixed the test for T
15:24:02 <MikeRiley> need to fix teh matrix comparison on the final matrix...then will upload new test
15:24:26 <MikeRiley> also fixed the tst for S * T which would have been wrong as well
15:25:55 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: fixed it manually by replacing @s, and yes that is the same matrix as I get
15:26:07 <Deewiant> the result after X is [11.02, 3.97, 15.96, 1.00]
15:27:20 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,,let me fix the test...then will see the final on X
15:29:08 <MikeRiley> 11.017948806286 3.968910902739 11.017948806286
15:29:12 <MikeRiley> is what i get...
15:31:04 <Deewiant> well that's wrong :-P
15:31:20 <Deewiant> mathematica:
15:31:24 <Deewiant> {{11.014}, {3.97}, {15.961}, {1.}}
15:31:27 <Deewiant> or
15:31:28 <Deewiant> {{0.116, 5.665, 7.323, 34.422}}
15:31:50 <MikeRiley> hmmmmmmmm
15:32:13 <MikeRiley> first 2 look good.....wonder what is up with z.....
15:32:15 <Deewiant> I just use the same routine for matrix-matrix and matrix-vector multiplication, much simpler :-)
15:32:54 <MikeRiley> mine just eliminates the loops....but should still produce the same result....in theory....
15:33:09 <MikeRiley> but something is not right...
15:33:21 <MikeRiley> if you have the same final transform matrix as i do....hmmmmm
15:33:39 <Deewiant> for mathematica I just used the matrix you pasted earlier, verbatim
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15:34:32 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,then i would expect your result is teh correct one....wonder why only my z is off....curious....
15:36:47 <MikeRiley> type!!!!! stupid me!!!! eheheheheheheheehhe here is what i get now:
15:36:49 <MikeRiley> 11.017948806286 3.968910902739 15.964100480080
15:37:03 <Deewiant> what was the typo?
15:37:17 <Deewiant> of course it was one, but what was it :-)
15:37:30 <MikeRiley> in my printf i was outputing a.x instead of a.z!!! eheheeheheheheheheheheh
15:37:37 <Deewiant> :-D
15:37:45 <MikeRiley> plugging final numbers into the test....
15:41:51 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,test works now with new numbers...
15:45:12 <MikeRiley> posted new test for 3DSP...
15:46:57 <Deewiant> N and X fail for CCBI due to precision issues, otherwise all good
15:47:16 <Deewiant> (this is why Mycology only gives UNDEFs for FPSP and FPDP!)
15:47:50 <MikeRiley> yeah.,,,probably a good idea....
15:48:36 <MikeRiley> intersting tho that it matrix checks right,,,since those are all fp as well...
15:49:23 <Deewiant> it's just luck
15:49:39 <MikeRiley> guess so....
15:50:01 <MikeRiley> and it checks for me since i used the output of my calculations to produce the test comparison...
15:50:17 <Deewiant> yeah, that would help :-P
15:50:22 <MikeRiley> yep.....
15:50:38 <MikeRiley> might change things to undef and then print the results and what the results should be...
15:50:58 <MikeRiley> or else multiply the results by 1000 and take the integer and compare to that...
15:51:14 <MikeRiley> measuring to 3 digits should be precise enough??? and prevent rounding erorrs
15:51:41 <Deewiant> yeah, that should work as well
15:51:49 <Deewiant> just 1 digit is probably good enough also...
15:52:07 <MikeRiley> probably....if a calc is wrong, it is liable to be way wrong
15:52:27 <MikeRiley> just like my previous X!!! eheheheheh
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16:51:36 <asiekierka> Ok, upped Screeble #23. http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles
16:55:01 <dogface> Yay!
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18:41:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | : probably isn't well explained..
18:57:20 <Mony> bye
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19:00:28 -!- tusho has quit.
19:01:07 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:01:08 <asiekierka> hi
19:01:46 -!- darktemplar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:04:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I will not be reachable tomorrow btw
19:05:16 <Deewiant> alright
19:05:45 <Deewiant> (I won't remember tomorrow anyway so if I have something to ask I'll ask it in any case :-P)
19:17:58 <asiekierka> ...
19:58:48 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:01:46 <fizzie> Deewiant; We (or at least I) will then mercilessly mock you for your forgetfulness.
20:02:01 <Deewiant> so I better not ask anything then ;-)
20:03:10 <fizzie> Mission: accomplished.
20:05:19 -!- tusho has joined.
20:06:24 <tusho> zap zop zoot!
20:07:09 <tusho> Hi, dogface.
20:11:30 <fizzie> For some reason I am sorely tempted to utter something like "Hello, little girly man." but that would be just pointless; can't resist mentioning it this way, though.
20:17:26 <tusho> i don't even look female ;.;
20:23:53 <fizzie> There was that one video; it's the only picturological thing of you I have seen.
20:24:04 <AnMaster> an idea:
20:24:18 <AnMaster> WikiLinux - The Free Linux distro that anyone can edit
20:24:18 <fizzie> AnMaster; Not the nude pics again.
20:24:19 <AnMaster> XD
20:25:15 <tusho> fizzie: http://tentaclerapture.com/lulz/photo2.jpg
20:26:20 <oklopol> po
20:26:22 <oklopol> *o
20:26:34 <tusho> oklopol: oko.
20:26:40 <oklopol> ooooooookokokokokoko
20:26:53 <tusho> fizzie: please don't say photo2.jpg looks like a girl too
20:26:53 <tusho> :P
20:27:35 <fizzie> But it does!
20:27:40 <oklopol> ya i'm so gonna wank @ that!
20:27:49 <tusho> oklopol: :|
20:27:50 <fizzie> Are you _absolutely_ sure about your gender?
20:27:56 <tusho> fizzie: Quite thoroughly.
20:27:57 <oklopol> psygnisfive: i'm here now, in case you need me, btw.
20:28:01 <oklopol> at least i think i am
20:28:02 <tusho> Unless I just grew a penis somehow.
20:28:03 <oklopol> hmm
20:28:05 <tusho> And I'm also gay.
20:28:16 <tusho> Uh, that was a bundled statement.
20:28:22 <tusho> {Unless I just grew a penis somehow and I'm also gay}
20:28:37 <oklopol> i don't get it
20:28:46 <oklopol> hey
20:28:48 <oklopol> i got it
20:28:49 <oklopol> cool
20:28:49 <tusho> oklopol: If I was female then I'd have had to grow a penis somehow
20:28:51 <tusho> and I'd also be gay
20:28:55 <oklopol> genders are so complicated
20:29:21 <oklopol> well for some reason i thought of the penis as a gender switch
20:29:43 <tusho> Gender is seperate from sex.
20:29:49 <tusho> Hmm.
20:29:52 <tusho> Then I replied to [20:27:50] <fizzie> Are you _absolutely_ sure about your gender? wrongly.
20:30:03 <tusho> Although I am sure of both my gender and sex (they're both male.)
20:30:04 <oklopol> i don't believe in complicated things, actually, penis will from now on be my definition of male
20:30:23 <oklopol> for both gender and sex
20:30:25 <tusho> oklopol: so eunuchs are genderless?
20:30:28 <oklopol> yes
20:30:31 <oklopol> definitely
20:30:32 <tusho> cool
20:31:02 <oklopol> gender doesn't have meaning to me, as anything but a physical detail of the body
20:31:15 <oklopol> or a set of details
20:31:34 <tusho> gender is mental
20:31:36 <tusho> sex is physical
20:31:54 <oklopol> gender isn't mental, you have a physical sex and a sexual preference.
20:32:01 <tusho> gender is mental
20:32:10 <tusho> why do you think people have sex changes?
20:32:14 <tusho> their gender is A, their sex is B.
20:32:25 <oklopol> they prefer a set of genitals better than the other
20:32:32 <tusho> no
20:32:35 <tusho> that's sexual orientation
20:32:36 <tusho> not gender
20:32:53 <oklopol> you're complicating things for no reason
20:33:02 <tusho> no, I'm not
20:33:11 <tusho> you're just being completely insensitive to a huge range of people
20:33:23 <oklopol> oh god i'm so sorry! :O
20:34:31 <oklopol> all i'm saying is the separation of gender and sex is meaningless to me, for all intents and purposes.
20:35:33 <oklopol> i can live with "some people wanna be physically female/male, most people are one or the other, physically, and most people like one of the two sexes better than the other"
20:35:49 <oklopol> but i don't believe in gender
20:36:09 <AnMaster> there should be an unicode symbol for "there are too many unicode symbols"
20:36:10 <AnMaster> :D
20:36:15 <tusho> oklopol: it's a good thing not believing in something doesn't make it not exist
20:36:16 <oklopol> "being completely insensitive" doesn't really mean anything to me either.
20:36:35 <tusho> oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
20:36:36 <tusho> plz read.
20:36:51 <oklopol> tusho: anyway, this is one of those issues where you say something exists without actually defining it; you may be right, but things without definition are nothing to me.
20:37:06 <tusho> oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
20:37:07 <oklopol> this has happened about a million times, i simply see the world differently than humans
20:37:10 <tusho> there's your definition
20:37:29 <oklopol> gender = preferred set of genitals
20:37:36 <oklopol> according to that
20:37:57 <tusho> did you even fucking read
20:38:21 <tusho> Gender refers to the differences between men and women. Encyclopædia Britannica notes that gender identity is "an individual's self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex."[1] Although gender is commonly used interchangeably with sex, within the social sciences it often refers to specifically social differences, known as gender roles in the biological sciences.
20:38:33 <tusho> People whose gender identity feels incongruent with their physical bodies may call themselves transgender or genderqueer.
20:38:44 <fizzie> I think the point to note here is "commonly used interchangeably with sex".
20:38:56 <fizzie> And "within the social sciences" is not necessarily the case here.
20:38:57 <oklopol> not really, fizzie
20:39:07 <oklopol> i know the distinction, and was going by it
20:39:11 <oklopol> as was tusho
20:39:25 <tusho> fizzie: Would you refer to a transsexual as their sex or their gender?
20:39:31 <tusho> I should hope the latter.
20:39:32 <oklopol> anyway, "gender roles" don't mean anything to me
20:39:36 <oklopol> what are those?
20:39:56 <oklopol> not that i care, why the fuck can't you let me disagree?
20:40:08 <oklopol> this is so uninteresting i can't breathe.
20:40:34 <tusho> disagreeing on facts is rather unreasonable
20:40:41 <oklopol> lol
20:41:02 <oklopol> well i'm not gonna argue anymore, for all intents and purposes we agree completely.
20:41:15 <tusho> no, we don't
20:41:23 <tusho> you "don't believe" in gender
20:41:50 <oklopol> i don't believe it's a useful property to list on a human
20:42:18 <oklopol> "not believing" doesn't really mean anything to me, i've already explained what i meant
20:42:42 <oklopol> anyway, really, this is stupid
20:42:53 <oklopol> gotta do some workie
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20:43:44 <dogface> People don't have gender, words have gender.
20:44:05 <oklopol> :P
20:44:24 <dogface> "Cara" is feminine, "sacapuntas" is masculine, "carro" is masculine, "pluma" is feminine...
20:44:31 <fizzie> Well, my particular viewpoint here is that in casual conversation I ought to be able to say either "sex" or "gender" and assume that a single answer ("male" or "female") will suffice for most; and in more complicated cases the answer will then include both "sex" and "gender", whatever those are.
20:44:32 <tusho> dogface: people and words have gender
20:44:40 <fizzie> Our words do not have gender. :/
20:44:44 <tusho> fizzie: Correct. :P
20:44:45 <dogface> "dogface" is neither, because it's in English.
20:45:13 <tusho> fizzie: So say someone said that their sex was male but their gender was female. Would you refer to them as "he" or "she"?
20:45:15 <oklopol> fizzie: that hasn't been the issue at any point of this conversation
20:45:20 <tusho> I would hope "she".
20:45:48 <MikeRiley> interesting topic for this channel!!
20:45:59 <dogface> Actually pretty boring.
20:46:03 <MikeRiley> /me wonders what he came into the middle of....
20:46:06 <dogface> Semantic debates are evil.
20:46:08 <tusho> MikeRiley: this is #esoteric, what did you expect
20:46:12 <dogface> And boring = evil.
20:46:13 <oklopol> indeed, i don't think we've ever had a conversation this useless
20:46:15 <MikeRiley> guess so!!! eheheeheheh
20:46:22 <tusho> anyway, i've asked fizzie that question twice, i'll ask it until he answers and then I'll stop discussing this
20:46:31 <MikeRiley> which question??
20:46:38 <oklopol> fizzie: answer what he hopes, fast :P
20:46:49 <tusho> MikeRiley: [20:45:12] <tusho> fizzie: So say someone said that their sex was male but their gender was female. Would you refer to them as "he" or "she"?
20:47:01 <MikeRiley> i would say she....
20:47:18 <dogface> I'd ask them which they'd prefer I refer to them as.
20:47:35 <tusho> dogface: The whole point of them identifying their gender as female would be that they consider themselves female.
20:47:37 <MikeRiley> if they considered their gender to be female,,,then she is the appropriate pronoun...
20:47:41 <tusho> MikeRiley: agreed
20:48:28 <MikeRiley> or if they are bi-gendered, then whatever gender they present as is the appropriate one to call them...
20:48:37 * tusho nods
20:48:43 <dogface> tusho: what if they independently decide that "gender" is physical, "sex" is imagined?
20:48:52 <dogface> Or if I have no idea what they're talking about?
20:48:56 <tusho> dogface: then they'd just be shuffling terms for no reason :P
20:48:59 <tusho> and presumably you could ask
20:48:59 <tusho> anyway
20:49:00 <MikeRiley> gender is how you feel about yourself...sex is your plumbing....
20:49:01 <tusho> I'll stop talking now
20:49:05 <tusho> fizzie can reply to me in /msg
20:49:24 <MikeRiley> how you view yourself that should be...
20:49:48 <fizzie> Sorry, WLAN troubleshooting here; that has a rather larger priority than the poinless sex/gender stuff.
20:49:57 <tusho> so, more important topics. Like befunge. :P
20:50:21 <oklopol> i haven't worked on my languages for ages :<
20:50:32 <oklopol> sleepy all the time, can't get anything done really
20:50:32 <MikeRiley> i find both topics fascinating,,,,but expect more topics like befunge than sex/gender/tg ones...
20:50:35 <oklopol> blargh
20:50:42 <dogface> oklopol: learning to speak various natural languages?
20:51:05 <oklopol> dogface: well sure, but i was talking about my esolangs
20:51:21 <oklopol> i'm slowly learning them all, of course, at various paces :D
20:51:43 <tusho> MikeRiley: #esoteric being on topic has been a bit of an anomaly lately
20:51:56 <MikeRiley> i see....
20:52:06 <oklopol> yeah it's great the channel name is so permitting
20:52:49 * dogface directs everybody in the world into #esoteric-blah
20:52:57 <tusho> dogface: that's for botfloods
20:53:00 <tusho> not general discussion
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20:55:38 <oklopol> hmm, wonder how long stackoverbotter has time left :P
20:55:38 <stackoverbotter> lolz
20:55:56 <oklopol> what's the default stack size in python?
20:56:21 <oklopol> 1000
20:56:23 <oklopol> hmm
20:56:36 <oklopol> how the fuck is it still online
20:59:54 <tusho> what is stackoverbotter
20:59:54 <stackoverbotter> lolz
20:59:56 <oklopol> anyone wanna count the lines since stackoverbotter joined
20:59:56 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:00:05 <tusho> stackoverbotter: hmm hi
21:00:05 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:00:06 <tusho> what does it do
21:00:08 <tusho> ah
21:00:11 <oklopol> it's a purely functional, in the unlambda sense, irc bot
21:00:12 <tusho> replies lolz when you talk to it?
21:00:18 <oklopol> yeah and runs bf
21:00:42 <tusho> oklopol: link to src?
21:00:44 <oklopol> coded it in python, the bf interpreter i did ages ago, but it was quite hard to get in
21:00:45 <tusho> psygnisfive: bf 2
21:00:46 <oklopol> err sure
21:00:47 <tusho> er
21:00:48 <oklopol> wait a mo
21:00:49 <tusho> stackoverbotter: bf 2
21:00:49 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:00:52 <tusho> !bf 2
21:00:57 <tusho> !bf ,[.,]!hi
21:00:59 <oklopol> hmm
21:01:54 <fizzie> Is a bot that doesn't run brainfuck really a bot, anyway? It seems to be a requirement.
21:02:09 <tusho> fizzie: No.
21:02:11 <tusho> It's just a robot.
21:02:11 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p315114666.txt
21:02:19 <tusho> Brainfuck is hard to do short text generation in, though.
21:02:22 <tusho> So it makes it into a bot.
21:02:27 <tusho> So that the code is shorter.
21:02:28 <tusho> oklopol: nifty
21:02:33 <oklopol> fizzie: yes, a bot is something that connects, joins, pongs, and runs brainfuck.
21:02:44 <oklopol> and possibly something more
21:02:53 <fizzie> My fungot doesn't join unless I "^raw JOIN #esoteric" it.
21:03:05 <oklopol> well raw can be substituted for that i guess
21:03:15 <tusho> :&%#bf ,[.,]!hi
21:03:18 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:03:22 <tusho> :D
21:03:30 <oklopol> :D
21:03:44 <oklopol> , doesn't work i think
21:03:48 <oklopol> hmm
21:04:06 <oklopol> actually disabling it, while making it mandatory to have input, is kinda... cool
21:04:44 -!- stackoverbotter has joined.
21:04:44 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:04:47 <oklopol> he's back!
21:04:48 <tusho> :&%#bf ,[.,]!hi
21:04:49 <stackoverbotter> usho!n=tusho@91.105.80.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::&%#bf ,[.,]!hi
21:04:54 <oklopol> :D
21:04:56 <oklopol> &%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi
21:04:56 <stackoverbotter> hi
21:05:03 <tusho> hahahaha what
21:05:04 <tusho> :D
21:05:06 <oklopol> !!! because it was shorter to write
21:05:11 <tusho> oklopol: wut?
21:05:26 <oklopol> !!! was shorter to code than !, because ! is in the identor
21:05:26 <dogface> &%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi
21:05:26 <stackoverbotter> hi
21:05:30 <dogface> :&%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi
21:05:30 <stackoverbotter> hi
21:05:45 <tusho> :&%#bf +[]
21:05:47 <dogface> &%#bf ,[.,]!hi
21:05:47 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:05:50 <oklopol> :D
21:05:54 <tusho> lol
21:05:56 * dogface presses tusho
21:06:03 <oklopol> you have to be careful around it ;)
21:06:07 <oklopol> or
21:06:10 <oklopol> i could fix it a bit
21:06:12 <tusho> oklopol: i should write a bot in haskell
21:06:18 <oklopol> it's just i don't really have an ide for python
21:06:19 <tusho> so that I can claim that writing a purely functional bot is trivil
21:06:21 <tusho> *trivial
21:06:21 <tusho> :P
21:06:23 <oklopol> well i have
21:06:30 <oklopol> but it sucks for something like that
21:06:32 <oklopol> wonder why.
21:06:38 -!- stackoverbotter has joined.
21:06:38 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:06:43 <oklopol> stop killing it, i wanna see the stack overflow :P
21:07:15 <tusho> stackoverbotter: stack
21:07:15 <stackoverbotter> lolz
21:07:17 <tusho> hn
21:07:18 <tusho> oklopol
21:07:21 <tusho> bring it to #esoteric-blah
21:07:39 <oklopol> tusho: it's really just hard because there's no closures, and my way to code is first to write, then to debug.
21:07:52 <tusho> oklopol: python has closures..
21:07:55 <tusho> its lambdas are closures
21:08:00 <tusho> it doesnt have statements in lambdas though
21:08:02 <tusho> just expressions
21:08:04 <tusho> now #esoteric-blah
21:08:06 <oklopol> while this should clearly be done by first writing it in pieces, then copypasting
21:08:10 <oklopol> err well
21:08:11 <oklopol> i mean
21:08:30 <oklopol> hmm, actually.
21:09:00 <oklopol> i meant you cannot do stuff like lambda a:lambda b:a, but you definitely can, at least that exact thinmg
21:09:01 <oklopol> *thing
21:09:27 <tusho> #esoteric-blah
21:09:35 <oklopol> well anyway, that's one of the things that are not allowed for purely functional okopython
21:09:38 <oklopol> sure
21:09:40 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:09:46 <oklopol> hmm
21:09:50 <oklopol> i could just have used bf for tat
21:09:51 <oklopol> *that
21:11:43 -!- oklopol has quit (Excess Flood).
21:11:49 <tusho> [21:11:15] <tusho> oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi"
21:11:54 -!- oklopol has joined.
21:11:57 <tusho> [21:11:15] <tusho> oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi"
21:12:04 <tusho> [21:11:15] <tusho> oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi"
21:12:41 <oklopol> ya i saw that
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21:26:53 <fizzie> ^reload
21:26:54 <fungot> Reloaded.
21:27:17 <fizzie> No functional changes, just made it a bit easier to add commands that do replies.
21:28:38 <oklopol> ^ilikeapples
21:28:47 <fizzie> What should it do?
21:29:10 <oklopol> it should say "i like them too, but i liked them before they were cool"
21:29:13 <oklopol> hmm
21:29:15 <oklopol> or popular
21:29:22 <oklopol> perhaps cool, that makes less sense
21:29:53 <oklopol> EVERYONE PITCH IN, WE NEED TO MAKE FIZZIE'S BOT MASSIVE AND USELESS
21:30:41 <tusho> fizzie: add an addcmd function
21:30:46 <oklopol> hmm, can trds recall events from before it was loaded??
21:30:48 <tusho> *command
21:30:48 <oklopol> *-?
21:30:53 <tusho> ^addcmd cmdname brainfuckprogram
21:30:59 <tusho> fizzie: it gets its arguments as input
21:31:02 <oklopol> yeah, automatically allocates space for the code
21:31:04 <tusho> and output goes to the channel
21:31:04 <tusho> so
21:31:07 <oklopol> noooo it needs to be funge :)
21:31:09 <tusho> ^addcmd echo ,[.,]
21:31:11 <tusho> and you can then do
21:31:22 <tusho> ^echo hi
21:31:55 <oklopol> you could probably use a separate Z-level for each added command, and use threading to get around "safely" in the code
21:32:40 <fizzie> oklopol; It would need some more extensions. Plain concurrent-funge doesn't help, since when the "main IP" does the IRC read, it blocks all other IPs from executing.
21:32:57 <fizzie> Also with funge-space writing possibilities, I don't think it's very easy to do it safely.
21:33:26 <oklopol> well true, perhaps there should be a safe-thread fingerprint
21:33:26 <MikeRiley> use a non blocking erad
21:33:45 <oklopol> MikeRiley: would probably require a considerable structural change
21:34:00 <MikeRiley> what are you trying to do???
21:34:14 <oklopol> MikeRiley: make his ircbot let you write befunge modules
21:34:16 <fizzie> I'd rather use some sort of scheme that doesn't mean running at full CPU utilization. This thing makes a horrible noise if you make it shift to the higher cpufreq levels.
21:34:53 <oklopol> perhaps give it less processor time
21:34:54 <MikeRiley> and i take it one ip may block on a read while others still need to be running??
21:35:12 <fizzie> Yes. I think there was some talk about a fingerprint that would help in this.
21:35:34 <oklopol> anyway i think my fingerprint will be for safe threads
21:35:37 <MikeRiley> well,,,SCKE gives you a way to see if a socket read would block or not...
21:35:45 <oklopol> in case one doesn't exist
21:36:00 <oklopol> because i decided i'd make a fingerprint, i think, a few days ago
21:36:17 <fizzie> Still not sure I'm comfortable with running code in the same interpreter as the IRC bot. It needs some more thinking first. The brainfuck-based command adding would be easier.
21:36:34 <oklopol> would it suffice to let the user specify what commands are safe to run?
21:36:42 <oklopol> and perhaps some additional limitations on p and g
21:36:47 <fizzie> Anyway, busy with other stuff now, can't really participate in the enlightening debate.
21:36:54 <oklopol> :)
21:54:52 <tusho> oklopol:
21:54:55 <tusho> *IRC> unparse $ Prefixed (UserPrefix "tusho" "n=tusho" "foobar") (PRIVMSG (Channel "#esoteric") "Hello, world!") ":tusho!n=tusho@foobar PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!"
21:54:57 <tusho> discuss
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21:57:53 <oklopol> tusho: that looks like a good star
21:57:56 <oklopol> *start
21:58:03 <tusho> yes
21:58:10 <tusho> unfortunately I have to specialcase every parser
21:58:15 <tusho> as I can't dynamically get PRIVMSG, etc
21:58:18 <tusho> I might just use Network.IRC
21:58:23 <tusho> even though using strings for command names is less cool
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22:34:29 <tusho> oklopol: rate the okoness of this code: http://hpaste.org/9693#a1
22:34:43 <tusho> it echoes all messages in the channels it's in, or that it's /msg'd
22:34:50 <fizzie> fungot would turn ":tusho!n=tusho@foobar PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!" to funge-space stored cells so that (0,4) = 1 (indicating that there was a prefix), (1-x,4) = "tusho!n=tusho@foobar\0", (0,5) = 2 (number of arguments), (1-x,5) = "PRIVMSG\0", (0-x,6) = "#esoteric\0", (0-x,7) = "Hello, world!\0".
22:35:53 <fizzie> If you manage to get an IRC message with >100 arguments, it starts to overwrite code with them, actually. The spec promises that there are always <=15 arguments, but an evil IRC server could do the nasty.
22:36:03 <fizzie> (And going away again.)
22:38:33 <oklopol> tusho: it looks a quite oko, and very weird
22:38:37 <oklopol> *-a
22:38:42 <tusho> oklopol: but readable, right?
22:38:53 <tusho> i think it's pretty easy to comprehend
22:38:54 <oklopol> somewhat, i'm not sure what arg does
22:39:10 <tusho> oklopol: arg takes a function and passes the next argument of the command to it
22:39:36 <oklopol> <|> ?
22:39:45 <tusho> oklopol: part of Control.Alternate
22:39:49 <tusho> basically, "if this fails, try this"
22:39:55 <oklopol> figured
22:39:58 <oklopol> well guessed
22:40:16 <oklopol> figured would imply i asked for fun
22:40:51 <oklopol> yeah that's readable
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22:46:35 <tusho> oklopol: readable oko? :O
22:47:54 <oklopol> :P
22:47:55 <oklopol> sure
22:48:07 <oklopol> oerjan: nice to see you, we're on cleaner topics today
22:48:17 <oklopol> (for the most part)
22:49:34 <oerjan> whew
22:50:09 <fizzie> I wouldn't call my befunge stuff "clean", but on the other hand we're not particularly "on it" either.
22:55:43 <oklopol> well i wouldn't call my python bot that clean either, and i don't think we've been on anything else for a while
22:56:11 <oklopol> well gender issues, but that was very clean
22:56:57 <oerjan> optbot!
22:56:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you have to *tell* me the issue before I can solve it, unless you want me to make shit up..
22:57:28 <oerjan> hey, that's relevant! maybe.
22:57:46 <oklopol> optbot: the issue was gender, if i understand your question
22:57:46 <optbot> oklopol: and a dot a bit above the vertical line
22:57:56 <oklopol> and i don't think you can really solve it :D
22:58:29 <oklopol> optbot: that definitely has nothing to do with anything
22:58:29 <optbot> oklopol: Once before, Google cut back my site from 89,000,000 to
22:58:37 <oklopol> to what, optbot?
22:58:37 <optbot> oklopol: ???
22:58:48 <oklopol> err, to what, optbot? wasn't that clear enough
22:58:49 <optbot> oklopol: i mean open it
22:59:05 <oklopol> right they opened it, scrambled its brain, and usercount dropped?
22:59:22 <oklopol> damn, i forgot he needs to hear his name all the time.
22:59:28 <oklopol> what a self-centered bastard
22:59:31 <dogface> optbot optbot optbot.
22:59:31 <optbot> dogface: ouch
22:59:35 <oerjan> mmm, scrambled brains...
22:59:39 <dogface> Sorry, optbot.
22:59:40 <optbot> dogface: Dunno.
23:00:27 <dogface> optbot: Hello. I am dogface. How can I help you?
23:00:27 <optbot> dogface: uhm chose 3 of them
23:00:44 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:00:44 <optbot> dogface: :) bye
23:01:07 <dogface> optbot: You are sure?
23:01:07 <optbot> dogface: binary tree
23:01:19 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:01:19 <optbot> dogface: at the same time
23:01:24 <oerjan> trinary bee
23:01:29 <oklopol> optbot: how does that make you feel?
23:01:29 <optbot> oklopol: CamelCase is very lame though :P
23:01:34 <dogface> optbot: What resemblance do you see?
23:01:34 <optbot> dogface: will work
23:01:50 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:01:50 <optbot> dogface: okay
23:01:51 <oklopol> optbot: what's a trinary bee?
23:01:52 <optbot> oklopol: its so cheesy XD
23:02:02 <oklopol> :O
23:02:05 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:02:05 <optbot> dogface: I noticed that English has a missing grammar construct.
23:02:19 <dogface> Hey, I think I said that.
23:02:29 <dogface> optbot: Can you elaborate on that?
23:02:30 <oerjan> wow, google corrects it to ternary bee, which has one hit
23:02:30 <optbot> dogface: brainfuck
23:02:47 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:02:47 <optbot> dogface: bye
23:02:49 <oklopol> :D
23:02:57 <dogface> optbot: Please go on.
23:02:57 <optbot> dogface: I thought that C did no abstraction on that. . .
23:03:04 <oklopol> english needs more brainfuck, we can all agree on that!
23:03:15 <dogface> optbot: Can you elaborate on that?
23:03:16 <optbot> dogface: I don't know if lament is part of the committee, or just waiting for a coup d'etat.
23:03:33 <dogface> optbot: Do you wish that lament is part of the committee or just waiting for a coup detat?
23:03:33 <optbot> dogface: ftr
23:03:45 <dogface> Please go on...
23:12:08 <KingOfKarlsruhe> optbot: true?
23:12:08 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: some water
23:12:14 <KingOfKarlsruhe> optbot: false?
23:12:15 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: same thing.
23:13:00 <KingOfKarlsruhe> optbot: sure?
23:13:00 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: * Pepperoni wonders how a Pez Pizza would taste.
23:14:08 <oerjan> optbot: what does Pez Pizza wonder?
23:14:08 <optbot> oerjan: yes... in some way or another...
23:18:01 <oklopol> heh, for a second i thought KingOfKarlsruhe and oerjan were having the weirdest conversation ever
23:18:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> hehe
23:18:42 <tusho> ooh
23:18:46 <tusho> let's all talk like optbot for a bit
23:18:46 <optbot> tusho: tell me
23:18:51 <tusho> (without the mandatory name addressing)
23:19:25 <oklopol> tusho: too hard
23:19:53 <tusho> oklopol: i don't think it'd work unless you had a good algorithm
23:21:34 <oklopol> actually dancing links is not that efficient for that
23:23:57 <tusho> oklopol: wtf???
23:24:29 <oklopol> it's giving the same error still
23:25:53 <tusho> *Main> decodeAndHandle "PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi\r\n"
23:25:53 <tusho> [Message Nothing "PRIVMSG" ["#esoteric","hi"]]
23:25:55 <tusho> OHHHH YEAH
23:26:04 <tusho> nice, readable, working code!
23:27:53 <oklopol> what's that Nothing there?
23:27:58 <tusho> oklopol: no message prefix
23:28:04 <oklopol> ya figured
23:28:10 <oklopol> and once again, guessed is better
23:28:16 <tusho> *Main> decodeAndHandle ":tusho!n=tusho@serv PRIVMSG a :hi\r\n"
23:28:17 <tusho> [Message Nothing "PRIVMSG" ["tusho","hi"]]
23:28:20 <tusho> aaaand bot messages work too!
23:28:24 <tusho> all I have to do now is plug it into the network
23:28:31 <oklopol> also why the fuck do i need to tell people i would've guessed right :P
23:28:49 <oklopol> yayeee
23:30:20 <fungot> Should I do that "^bfcmd echo ,[.,] after which ^echo foo is processed as ^bf ,[.,]!foo" thing?
23:30:54 <fungot> I don't feel like puzzling the *funge execution stuff out just yet.
23:30:57 <oklopol> fungot: you can't, bots can't code
23:31:11 <fungot> Well, should I have fizzie do that?
23:31:18 <oklopol> fungot: yes
23:31:39 <fizzie> Well, it could be the fun, and provide some much-needed interactivimotity.
23:31:56 <oklopol> can you elaborate on interactivimotity
23:32:10 <fizzie> Getting you people to use fungot for something.
23:34:14 <tusho> yes fizzie
23:34:15 <tusho> do it
23:34:19 <tusho> hmm
23:34:27 <tusho> fizzie: it'd be nice to be able to do it as a uri
23:34:39 <tusho> ^bfcmduri echo http://foo.com/my_underload_interp
23:34:43 <tusho> err
23:34:45 <tusho> s/echo/ul/
23:36:56 <fizzie> Well, I may add that support at some point. I wonder how good RC/Funge-98 is with fungespace resource usage, though, if I allocate a single line of tens of thousands of cells (not long for a brainfuck program, I guess).
23:38:17 <tusho> oklopol: http://hpaste.org/9694
23:38:18 <tusho> my irc bot so far
23:38:21 <tusho> I just need to add networkability
23:38:23 <tusho> and tada
23:39:11 <tusho> oklopol: think it's readable
23:39:12 <tusho> and okoy
23:43:10 <oklopol> tusho: it's readable, less weird than your original
23:43:17 <oklopol> i'm not sure about its okoness
23:43:19 <tusho> less weird? howso? :P
23:43:23 <tusho> it's not all that different
23:43:36 <oklopol> but it has more stuff, so the weird doesn't stand out!
23:43:48 <oklopol> also it wasn't that weird after i knew what stuff meant, ofc.
23:44:25 <tusho> oklopol: i think it's kind of okoy in that it's kind of a bizzare model (the hugely nested lambda thing) that allows you to write really short, but comprehendable code
23:45:19 <oklopol> yarrrrr
23:51:25 <fizzie> Huh, RC/Funge-98 segfaulted.
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