< 1217809923 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217812108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/sitewiki/images/0/0a/TMR-Issue10.pdf Haskell in Haskell. < 1217812111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intermediate language? < 1217812112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda. < 1217812441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer to Lazy K, i should think < 1217812460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just quoting the reddit headline < 1217812470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1217812746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1217813174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. :) < 1217813227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS NO LAUGHING MATTER < 1217815344 0 :erus`!n=Tom@92.8.253.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1217816314 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea: You're a wolf. You communicate by howling or not howling. At any given time, you know how many wolves are howling. Try to figure out what your friend is saying. < 1217816931 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-214.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217818560 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks around the channel for people called 'Idea'
< 1217818637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just a horrible misspelling. actually, "Dewi" looks sort of close. < 1217819429 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can't be me. I communicate by howling, but I'm not a wolf. < 1217819476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's what _you_ think < 1217819526 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1217820250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Unless the wolves use CDMA, I refuse. < 1217820267 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I just violated an Agoran contract. < 1217820278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which contract? < 1217820301 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pledge to ascend my current game of NetHack. < 1217820308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1217820318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fool. < 1217820325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where'd you die? < 1217820380 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On dungeon level 3, of course. < 1217820396 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That death was not nearly embarrassing enough. < 1217820576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is curious
< 1217820598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what can I say? I'm curious about how people die in nethack) < 1217820738 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, I starved to death. < 1217820769 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessons learned from that game: Don't eat poisonous things, thereby decreasing your strength, then kick *three* sinks, thereby releasing the black puddings within, and cause them to divide by hitting them accidentally, then get most of your armor and both your weapons stolen by nymphs and become a wererat and summon so many pets that you have to kill some of them to move around. < 1217820779 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As told to #nethack a few minutes ago. < 1217820809 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another lesson learned from that game: Don't pledge to win a game you've never won before. < 1217820817 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do pledge to get the Bell if you've done that before. < 1217821051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you're hungry, kill your pet. :p < 1217821071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tasty. < 1217821204 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217821297 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I killed my pet because he was in the way; I wasn't hungry. Then I starved to death anyway. < 1217821481 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just started a new game and already my armor class is below what it was in my previous game. < 1217822263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217822382 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217822985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1217823939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1217824386 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: wait, you can *win* nethack? < 1217824442 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack is one giant puddle of wtf < 1217828024 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1217831530 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217831537 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHO WAS PHONE? < 1217832201 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1217832609 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217833347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217836669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217836799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1217836800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1217838306 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-167.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217842442 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back (gone 09:36:42)
< 1217842445 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1217842518 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1217844301 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-101.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217844601 0 :Slereah-!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217844601 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217846641 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217847298 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"You're still in denial. It's easier to lie by saying that I'm lying than to face truth." < 1217847977 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.96.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1217848026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1217848130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey I found an possible issue with TRDS, how does it handle the ? instruction < 1217848138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it need to give same result on the next run < 1217848185 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1217849378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, ask Mike < 1217849396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does ccbi do the right thing there? < 1217849406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :-P < 1217849426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, bet you don't want to need to change that ;P < 1217849429 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it should. Make a new release." < 1217849434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a simple change though < 1217849448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, recording any ? yeah < 1217851298 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbac0af.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1217851398 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect plurals. Discuss. < 1217851399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Databii. < 1217851504 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION miam
< 1217851912 0 :erus`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217851999 0 :ErkiDerLoony!n=edgar@p549D64C9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217853745 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-247.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217854240 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host250-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1217854985 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1217855786 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is away: I will be back !
< 1217855963 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217859144 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217859274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1217859281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type "publicly", not "publically". < 1217859899 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1217860851 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217860910 0 :CakeProphet!n=bread@h123.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217861249 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217862100 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217862128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1217862132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................... < 1217862137 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST UNFOCUSED MY IRC CLIENT < 1217862138 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SECOND < 1217862147 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs ais523's eyes out
< 1217862159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION defends emself with a towel
< 1217862162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful things, towels < 1217862170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! But... < 1217862174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brings out NUCLEAR TOWEL
< 1217862182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nuclear, so yours dissolves along with your eyes. < 1217862198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I defeat that with a cluebat < 1217862204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now can we get back to talking about esolangs? < 1217862217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went and implemented Shove < 1217862227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't think of an efficient way to do it so I did it a really inefficient way < 1217862236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1217862251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way I did it makes it clear what's going on < 1217862281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language? < 1217862284 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say shove. < 1217862285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl < 1217862423 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.eso-std.org/shove/shove.pl < 1217862586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I've put a few example programs there too now < 1217862598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modelling the Underload stack-manipulation primitives < 1217862600 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-113.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217862604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dup, concat, swap and enclose there < 1217862613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop, eval and quote are trivial < 1217862634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all I need now is a way to combine two programs into one and I'll have an Underload -> Shove compiler < 1217862660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining two programs into one isn't trivial in Shove but I've thought of a way to do it, now I'm writing a precompiler that I can use to generate the compiler < 1217862740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shouldn't it say "by ais523"? < 1217862770 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cool though < 1217862778 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'll need a stage-2 shove though < 1217862780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly, but I tend to sign realname on things that have copyright < 1217862780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lets you define commands < 1217862783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "swap" is long < 1217862803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes, that would be important for practical use, atm I'm trying to work around the restrictions of the language though < 1217862812 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1217862817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming Shove feels a bit like programming a cross between Underload and SMITH, only 10 times more confusing < 1217862823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nowadays I generally sign copyrighted things tusho < 1217862830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's sufficiently formal < 1217862839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many things have been published under pseudonyms? loads < 1217862849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it wouldn't stand up legally < 1217863033 0 :ihope!n=steve@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217863045 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tzi-ga-na-tood. < 1217863052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ? < 1217863058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1217863063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I put my new Shove interp online < 1217863067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.eso-std.org/shove/shove.pl < 1217863394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's clear enough for people to be able to deduce the spec from the interp < 1217863394 0 :ErkiDerLoony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217863405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and ! S and n aren't part of the language < 1217863411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all NOPs, just with side effects < 1217863424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which make it possible to produce output and to run the program in a reasonable length of time < 1217864041 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOPs with side effects" sounds like an oxymoron to me ;-) < 1217864132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they're NOPs from the language's point of view < 1217864137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a no I/O tarpit < 1217864143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but certain nops happen to cause output-like side-effects < 1217864161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know what you meant, it just sounded a bit funny until I read the context :-) < 1217864180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another interesting point about Shove: in Befunge, if you go into stringmode from right to left, you get the string as you wrote it; in Shove, if you do that, the string comes out upside-down < 1217864190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least with v and ^ swapped and likewise for the other characters < 1217864207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a consequence of the way I wrote the interp, but I deliberately wrote the interp like that so that that would happen < 1217864220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿ʇɹoddns ǝpoɔıun ǝʌɐɥ ʇı sǝop os < 1217864241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately no, I wanted to do that but it couldn't write messages sideways very well < 1217864250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1217864252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just restricted myself to command characters and left other characters alone < 1217864326 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217864690 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's a nice css effect < 1217864697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background of blockquotes was fixed to all of them < 1217864700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was like they were cut holes in the page < 1217864705 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a fixed position background < 1217864713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is clever < 1217864760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit too subtle though < 1217864762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shape is white on beige < 1217864768 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explains why I haven't noticed it before < 1217864955 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217865141 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you about AnMaster???\ < 1217865148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1217865150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1217865160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ask him about ? < 1217865183 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a couple questions on funge108.... < 1217865193 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been working on adding a mode for that in Rc/Funge-98... < 1217865201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's your ? question? < 1217865202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well ? in TRDS, shouldn't it mean that when you jump back in time the old ip (not jumped) will make the same random choice at ? < 1217865205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1217865211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that < 1217865212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, TRDS < 1217865215 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not make the same random choice... < 1217865230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well fire away the questions < 1217865233 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when an ip jumps back, the future no longer exists... < 1217865233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /thought/ ? was one of the better-specified commands < 1217865241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been extremely busy with non-esoteric stuff the last week < 1217865246 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so future events need not recur... < 1217865248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will probably be that the next week too < 1217865252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I may be hard to reach < 1217865257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire away the questions < 1217865270 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,first,,,on your new fingerprint method,,,,what format are you expecting URIs to be??? can you give me an example?? < 1217865297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, iirc I refer to an RFC and even give some examples < 1217865308 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not remember seeing any examples.... < 1217865315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.com/my-finger-print.html < 1217865317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1217865319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just URIs < 1217865331 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a though....web addresses are a bad idea.... < 1217865336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even have to be URLs, though I guess in practice they will be < 1217865359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case I may end up calling a fingerprint apt://nethack to annoy people < 1217865369 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for resource types, i was looking at f108: for the interpreter handprint, and fngr: for fingerprints... < 1217865384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it a valid protocol defined in a RFC? < 1217865386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1217865397 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a web address is problematic,,,, < 1217865397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no idea, but I see the links around every now and then < 1217865398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, no, makes no sense at all IMO < 1217865400 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: use URIs < 1217865405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: there's a spec for them < 1217865405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, URI != URL < 1217865408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not URL) < 1217865420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what should the defined format be??? < 1217865425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: here is the rfc: < 1217865432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 < 1217865438 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's long; have fun < 1217865453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are uri manipulation libs for just about every language < 1217865455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be one for c < 1217865523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217865541 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217865542 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking an implementer to read through that rfc is not good, better to provide reasonable examples within your spec... < 1217865569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1217865573 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so use a library! < 1217865588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway all URIs are reasonable < 1217865590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to restrict them < 1217865604 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so,,,i can just invent anything i want for them??? < 1217865610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1217865614 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that obeys http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 < 1217865620 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, layout a spec,,,, < 1217865624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: uhh < 1217865626 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1217865628 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rfc covers them in a general form... < 1217865628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate the existing spec? < 1217865631 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,, < 1217865639 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 is a specification for URIs < 1217865644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that obeys that is a valid URI < 1217865650 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like http: is a dfined subset....define a subset for this... < 1217865656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1217865657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the point < 1217865669 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that it SHOULD use http://, gopher://, ftp://, whatever < 1217865675 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the point of using URIs < 1217865680 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understood.... < 1217865691 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anything before the :// ??? i can define whatever i want??? < 1217865700 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the resource type should be speced,,,, < 1217865708 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 < 1217865715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how many times I need to paste that link.. < 1217865731 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not intend to read through that document....too long < 1217865743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so use a pre-existing library for manipulating URIs in C < 1217865750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier more info < 1217865751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I finally found the thing before the :// < 1217865753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at http://www.iana.org/assignments/uri-schemes.html < 1217865764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't define it in the RFC itself so they could change it later < 1217865771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1217865773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just mandated IANA to keep a list, and that's where it is < 1217865774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to restrict it though < 1217865778 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allow any valid URI < 1217865780 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rfc just says the a resource type has to be there, does not define them < 1217865782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you won't have to update it < 1217865786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1217865789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason keeping track of that list < 1217865795 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allow anything that is a syntactically valid URI < 1217865803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how URIs are used all the time and how they should be < 1217865813 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course....so my point,,,i can define whatever resource type i want???? so like fngr://??? < 1217865827 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so could do something like fngr://rcfunge98.trds < 1217865829 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1217865830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: don't, but it would be syntactically valid < 1217865830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, because it isn't a URI if you don't use a registered scheme, I don't think < 1217865836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, ais523 is right < 1217865839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you need to keep track of the list < 1217865840 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard < 1217865843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be well-formed just not valid < 1217865848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it has changed for what, years? < 1217865856 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: in practice the URI will probably be < 1217865869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://your.site/funge/fingerprints/name < 1217865877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have that link to documentation < 1217865883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about an irc:// URI to a fingerprint? < 1217865885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great < 1217865888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hah, yes < 1217865890 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mailto < 1217865892 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your.site is a bad idea.... < 1217865896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: no, it's not < 1217865901 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is.... < 1217865903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URIs are used as universal identificaiton and have been for quite a file < 1217865907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually irc:// is not on the list < 1217865909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the Right Thing < 1217865909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which surprises me < 1217865911 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example#1 catseye which defined some specs no longer exist < 1217865917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yes it does < 1217865918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye.tc < 1217865924 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, URIs by definition aern't meant to change < 1217865924 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different address tho < 1217865925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I agree with MikeRiley to some extent, especially as not everyone has a website < 1217865931 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why ESO is offering them < 1217865932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember? < 1217865934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that doesn't prevent them changing in practice < 1217865938 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example#2, the fingerprints that i have defined are on a different address... < 1217865941 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fingerprints.eso-std.org/... < 1217865947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you change ESO's naming scheme every week afaict < 1217865953 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1217865955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next week it'll be befunge.eso-std.org/fingerprints < 1217865960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it won't < 1217865964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand what i'm saying < 1217865973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I do, I'm just disagreeing < 1217865979 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :websites are NOT as constant, and in my opinion should not be part of URIs for fingerprints.... < 1217865983 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1217865990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: URIs are URIs whether you'd like them to be URIs are not. < 1217866002 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't support a certain type of URIs you don't support URIs at all. < 1217866012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case it shouldn't be "URI" but some other sort of identifier < 1217866018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it shouldn't < 1217866019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1217866021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd end up reinventing URIs < 1217866025 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pointless < 1217866034 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, would still be in the format of uris,,,,just different information... < 1217866043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: the format of URIs includes the protocols. < 1217866047 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disallow a protocol you do not support URIs. < 1217866048 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree... < 1217866059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly reccomend you just stick with URIs. < 1217866060 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the protocol should be there,,,and be defined for handprints and fingerprints < 1217866072 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's anti-ethical to the whole idea of URIs! < 1217866080 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're meant to design a resource protocol-agnostically! < 1217866087 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, not resource < 1217866089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what I mean < 1217866104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will stick to plain URIs < 1217866116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want to be able to use gopher or whatever if I want < 1217866125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the problem is URIs aren't actually very good at their job < 1217866125 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good :) < 1217866134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: URIs are fine at their job. People aren't. < 1217866135 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense to me to name fingerprints this way... < 1217866136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people don't control Internet locations indefinitely in real life < 1217866139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the risk of collision is *much* higher currently with 4 letters than with a URL < 1217866141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URI* < 1217866142 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[ What makes a cool URI? < 1217866143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A cool URI is one which does not change. < 1217866143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What sorts of URI change? < 1217866143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : URIs don't change: people change them.]]] - TBL < 1217866155 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree about the 4 letters,,,,that was definitely a problem... < 1217866157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: or their webhost changes them, or their financial situation < 1217866161 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: purl.net < 1217866180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what if it goes down tomorrow < 1217866184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, seriously? < 1217866189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably won't happen but it might < 1217866189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it won't. It's got a huge amount of backing < 1217866189 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not there have been any collisions yet,,,very few people have defined fingerprints..... < 1217866196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just Yet Another Service < 1217866218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that attitude strikes me as being overconfident < 1217866223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what website it's with respect to < 1217866251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: purl has got a huge, huge amount of backing and effort & research to stay totally persistent put in it < 1217866251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, a URI is meant to just *identify* the resource... Not necessarily point out where it is. urn:isbn:1234567890123, for example, is a valid URI... Well, except that that's not by any means a valid ISBN. :p < 1217866256 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1217866262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1217866268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like at least one person did not understand that. < 1217866275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I might just be missing something. < 1217866282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I think < 1217866285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, I think it should probably have a date involved if you're going to base a URI on an URL < 1217866293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the URL might end up owned by someone else eventually < 1217866311 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URLs are a subset of URIs < 1217866317 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"basing a URI on a URL" is a silly concept < 1217866343 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is back to my point, a web address is not relevent in a URI... < 1217866343 0 :Hiato1!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1217866359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: of course it is < 1217866359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is the URI is for a web based service... < 1217866375 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprints are not web-based services.... < 1217866381 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are features in an interprter,,,, < 1217866385 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how it works < 1217866391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think it should be a data:// URI < 1217866400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains all the information needed to implement the fingerprint < 1217866408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the code for the fingerprint encoded in base64 < 1217866409 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data:// is reasonable.... < 1217866417 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can put anything i want after that??? < 1217866422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yes, but my suggestion is unreasonable on other grounds < 1217866426 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1217866429 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are??? < 1217866432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: there's a defined format for data:// < 1217866437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: you must support all URIs < 1217866442 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you do not support URIs at all < 1217866444 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,so we are back to where i started... < 1217866447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: if you're going to have the entire code of your fingerprint in your program, then why bother with fingerprinting at all? < 1217866448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore will not conform to befunge-108 < 1217866476 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my fingerprint code is in my interpreter,,,,but it still requires the fingerprint mechanism to overload A-Z.... < 1217866501 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am trying to figure out how these should appear??? < 1217866505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in the interpreter makes sense, in the program doesn't < 1217866523 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i use (,,,,,what should appear in the 0gnirts to load TRDS for example??? < 1217866538 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: http://your.site/befunge/fingerprints/trds < 1217866539 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1217866542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that funge-108 fingerprints will likely have names which are far too long for practical use < 1217866553 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mailto:your.emai+trds@your.email.domain < 1217866554 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your.site is unacceptable to me,....my site may change in the future.... < 1217866557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at any OpenOffice.org macro language source and you'll see what I mean < 1217866560 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: will your email? < 1217866564 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1217866566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine definitely will < 1217866573 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: ok, what won't? < 1217866578 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything related to the web is not a constant,,,, < 1217866594 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think fingerprints should have names that can be relied upon to be constant.... < 1217866608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a URI changing is a bug, a flaw, an error < 1217866610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, yes, they do < 1217866612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pick one that won't < 1217866619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick a protocol that doesn't rely on something mallable < 1217866625 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais linked to a list of them < 1217866627 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to pick one that will not,,,you cannot use any web address within the uri.... < 1217866632 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1217866644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iana.org/assignments/uri-schemes.html < 1217866646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick one < 1217866671 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: in particular < 1217866674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urn: < 1217866677 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is probably relevant to this < 1217866686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Name < 1217866742 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something like: urn://fingerprint:rcfunge98:trds ????? < 1217866751 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: why do you keep making things up? < 1217866756 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not read the definition of URNs... < 1217866757 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not.... < 1217866760 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did.... < 1217866765 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you just made up urn://fingerprint:rcfunge98:tds < 1217866780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2141.txt < 1217866781 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short. < 1217866785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot shorter than the URI definition < 1217866791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few pages < 1217866798 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, show me an example of how YOU would specify the trds fingerprint.... < 1217866807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-namespaces < 1217866820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: why? < 1217866825 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not my responsibility... < 1217866827 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see what you think it should be.... < 1217866832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you choose what kind of URI you want to use, e.g. URN < 1217866836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you make one of those... < 1217866838 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty simple < 1217866860 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,in that case, i will invent my own for my fingerprints.... < 1217866877 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1217866899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: uh, as long as it accords to the spec... < 1217866906 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when somebody comes up with uris for fingerprints made by somebody else,,,,i will implement them then... < 1217866910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, you can't use it, because it's not an URN (or not a URI or whatever) < 1217866914 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... < 1217866917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to do anything special < 1217866921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look up fingerprints by their uri < 1217866922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of name < 1217866926 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial! < 1217866938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a database of installed fingerprints, instead of name, the key is the URI < 1217866944 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means i can do something like: fngr://rcfunge98/trds..... < 1217866949 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1217866949 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that follows the rules of a uri.... < 1217866953 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a valid URI < 1217866958 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the protocol is not one of the registered protocols < 1217866961 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not matter that fngr is not already defined by somebody else... < 1217866964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217866965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1217866972 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the uri spec say that it must be pre-registered??? < 1217866982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what a URI is. < 1217866986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the protocol must be a valid URI protocol. < 1217866991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA maintains the list. < 1217866994 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the little of it that i read just sad that you had to specify a resource type...and not what the types are... < 1217867017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the little of it that I read" precisely < 1217867019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the little of it. < 1217867032 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accept that....too long for me to waste my time reading it.... < 1217867038 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would prefer to see reasonable examples.... < 1217867046 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else i will make my own way of doing it.... < 1217867060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: go ahead, as long as you don't care about funge-108 compliance. < 1217867078 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess at this point,,,i do not....since nobody is willing to define what it should look like.... < 1217867092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I can copy and paste the rfc if you'd like? < 1217867096 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will use my method,,,which will work in my interpeter... < 1217867100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've told you exactly how it will look like < 1217867103 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not going to read the rfc.... < 1217867104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by linking you to the definitive source < 1217867107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just refuse to read it. < 1217867115 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, i refuse to read it... < 1217867122 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1217867125 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will.... < 1217867161 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when somebody defines actual uris for non-rcs fingerprints,,,i will provide the support for them then.... < 1217867169 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my fingerprints will use my specification... < 1217867171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, examples are any valid URI < 1217867175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley seems to think that you have to special case it. < 1217867185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got no clue what you want instead... < 1217867187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't bother. he asks what a URI is. < 1217867193 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you point him to the rfc he refuses to use it < 1217867196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just let him implement whatever... < 1217867211 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want, is a clear cut description (not referringt to an rfc) that describes what funge108 expects in the 0gnirts.... < 1217867219 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a vague idea... < 1217867220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: ANY URI < 1217867222 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANY URI AT ALL < 1217867222 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something specific.... < 1217867223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, ANY valid URI < 1217867225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any at all < 1217867226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a definition of a URI: SEE THE RFC < 1217867229 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what defines a URI < 1217867233 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is NO MORE WE CAN SAY < 1217867241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, or do you want me to copy paste the entire rfc into the specs? < 1217867253 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said,,,when somebody provieds me with uris for non-rcs fingerprints, i will implement those....my fingerprints will use my own... < 1217867255 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he wants you to rewrite it in a few pages, it seems < 1217867268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is impossible tusho! < 1217867275 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1217867278 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer examples of what things should look like rather than long specs.... < 1217867302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so give him an example of a Funge-108 program and have him implement Funge-108 based on that ;-) < 1217867335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *g* < 1217867418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, have a look at Shove, everyone, I'm quite amazed at how unlike Befunge it manages to be whilst seeming similar from a distance < 1217867440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.eso-std.org/shove/ < 1217867446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at it < 1217867446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice < 1217867479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that the program tends to disintegrate after it's been run for a bit < 1217867483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the rows get out of sync < 1217867526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I thought of an improvement to Underload to make it much easier to compile < 1217867538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delimit code strings with {} and data strings with [] < 1217867548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data strings can't be run with ^, code strings can't be output with S < 1217867560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means that you don't have trouble when compiling it into other concatenative langs < 1217867579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you can't use * to concatenate a code string to a data string < 1217867610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() would still be a combined code string/data string, but you shouldn't use it in programs you want to compile < 1217867611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about data strings = "" < 1217867612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1217867615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably you'd need two versions of a < 1217867619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: nesting? < 1217867620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with proper escaping < 1217867628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!\n"S < 1217867629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, proper escaping would help < 1217867641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a would generate code strings < 1217867645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep () as just code < 1217867647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quines would be a whole lot more difficult < 1217867657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1217867659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* would depend, though < 1217867668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a"(b)* would be invalid < 1217867671 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as would (b)"a"* < 1217867684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I was saying < 1217867695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenating data and code both make sense, but not concatenating them to each other < 1217867718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217867725 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1217867732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biarb < 1217867901 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1217869236 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1217869625 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-203.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217869982 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back (gone 03:56:37)
< 1217869998 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come back from the skate park :) < 1217870127 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1217870128 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217870262 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B to the A to the C K < 1217870916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217870933 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217871605 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217872084 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217873511 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1217874053 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@k-229.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217874921 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217874921 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217875747 0 :Slereah-!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217875747 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217876301 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217876306 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217877557 0 :Slereah-!n=x@ANantes-252-1-87-137.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217877622 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217877803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217877958 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217878433 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217878507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1217879112 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=king@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1217880331 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217881123 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217881320 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242399682.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1217882849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217883350 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217883745 0 :lilja!n=idler@a91-152-135-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1217884027 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host250-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1217884456 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1217884551 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217884641 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217884850 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbac0af.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1217884867 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to try to implent conditions in my "language" < 1217884875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217884959 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217884979 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217885510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lolwhut?" < 1217888020 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-167.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217888180 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1217888181 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1217889043 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1217889085 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbac0af.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1217889584 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1217890093 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217891240 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1217891461 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have an good idea for my conditions ? < 1217891745 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-244.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217892045 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1217892321 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217892401 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mony: not really < 1217892426 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bad ideas ? :P < 1217892477 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1217892999 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1217893000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1217893549 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may the night give me ideas :D < 1217893552 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is away: zZz
< 1217893563 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night guys ;) < 1217893613 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1217893892 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :