< 1215389351 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215391276 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215393446 0 :cc_to_ide!n=fortytwo@87-196-80-136.net.novis.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1215394173 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm|--0@219-88-195-100.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1215394563 0 :cc_toide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215395136 0 :Corun!n=Corun@92.10.212.197 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215395151 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1215398154 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215398557 0 :cc_to_ide!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cctoide < 1215399362 0 :cctoide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1215405446 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215407178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1215408438 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1215408444 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sup, folks? < 1215410005 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1215410065 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you up to this evening, GreaseMonkey? < 1215410095 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coding a new bot < 1215410104 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piemonkey is pretty hackish < 1215410175 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1215410209 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been working on stuff for a comic book I plan to make < 1215412311 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215412349 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215417599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1215417600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1215417680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all < 1215417854 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-039-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1215418745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215424195 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@41.247.121.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215425098 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1215428174 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Remote closed the previous member app" < 1215430534 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F9CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1215432195 0 :Slereah_!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215432195 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215432301 0 :Slereah-!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215432301 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215433550 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People, never go three years without sorting your files < 1215433554 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll regret it < 1215433840 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215434770 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-135.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215434896 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-167.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215434926 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1215434928 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1215434934 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1215436836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215436849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one seen ais? < 1215436853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tusho? < 1215436865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the place is boring without them) < 1215436874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1215436941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? < 1215436942 0 :planofish!n=cathy@unaffiliated/cathyal JOIN :#esoteric < 1215436950 0 :planofish!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1215436955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a D program made for phobos compile and work with tango? < 1215437355 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215437429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'll need tangobos and might need to make some small changes < 1215437438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215437466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that genx that tusho recommended, LOTS of compiler warnings < 1215437480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly casting const char* to non-const ones < 1215437497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so compile that file without warnings. :-P < 1215437511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, rather fix them < 1215437571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't bother if it's somebody else's code and known to work < 1215437580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that works too. :-P < 1215437760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have high quality standards for code I use in my own projects, way higher than if I just depend on it already being installed (and currently I only depend on libc, and optionally boehm-gc) < 1215438607 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1215438851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, down to 2 warnings now < 1215438856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these two will be hard to fix < 1215441472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it uses sprintf in some places instead of snprintf < 1215441476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UGH < 1215441711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with that if you have a buffer of the max possible size < 1215441720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. %d and 11 < 1215442391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed, but that wasn't the case here < 1215442393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was strings < 1215442403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static constUtf8 storePrefix(genxWriter w, constUtf8 prefix, Boolean force) < 1215442410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sprintf((char *) buf, "xmlns:%s", prefix); < 1215442420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they're internal, they might now the size < 1215442435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I traced the code backwards, it is not checked before it is sent to said function < 1215442993 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215443021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there? < 1215443065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes? < 1215443072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I finished fffungi < 1215443076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! < 1215443084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some things I'd like to discuss with you about it < 1215443090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, go ahead < 1215443099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue is distributing it < 1215443107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I have patches + a script that applies them < 1215443112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215443127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the patches being GPLv3 makes it kind of tricky to distribute with C-INTERCAL < 1215443141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't C-INTERCAL "gpl2 or later"? < 1215443144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215443149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distribution's fine < 1215443161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just having two files that aren't normally used with a different licence is a pain to explain on the 'packaging' < 1215443184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well cfunge already contains some BSD code in lib, and shortly also some MIT < 1215443189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc I could just licence the patches under gpl2+ as it would come to the same thing when combined with your gpl3 code, but I'd need your permission to do that < 1215443194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :included and customized libraries basically < 1215443205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I found a bug in cfunge's string load < 1215443211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1215443214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: also a bug in mycology < 1215443216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :details so I can fix it < 1215443223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: off-by-one in the loop counter < 1215443234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically put the trailing NUL of the string onto the end of the program < 1215443243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: \o < 1215443243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you try to wrap round the bottom row, it hits the NUL and reflects < 1215443253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215443260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if negative k reflects, then it prints 'reflects' but also another message < 1215443262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got a patch for that? ;) < 1215443266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1215443273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also another patch which it would be helpful for you to apply < 1215443283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't affect cfunge at all when not combined with C-INTERCAL < 1215443288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw your patch is your custom interpreter main loop file + your fingerprint right? in that case, go ahead with GPL2+ < 1215443292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think you have a missing semicolon < 1215443297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's all < 1215443305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to upload the patches somewhere? < 1215443306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've pushed fffungi to the C-INTERCAL repo < 1215443309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can review and such < 1215443312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get it from there < 1215443336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION darcs pull < 1215443361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where in c-intercal repo? < 1215443374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patch is etc/cfunge.patch < 1215443387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the whole thing, the script's etc/cftoec.sh < 1215443393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which compiles cfunge into a library < 1215443403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, doesn't look like that to me... what does it print? < 1215443416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: maybe I have an older version < 1215443418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me run it again < 1215443442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: k with a negative argument executes more often than the absolute value of the argumenteflects < 1215443448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the other patch hm I see yes < 1215443459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets me use a command-line define to change the handprint < 1215443468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215443474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an old mycology? < 1215443477 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like what it actually does is it executes more often and then prints something extra < 1215443497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nah, it reflects, but after pushing the string "reflects" to the stack it ends up in a different string by mistake < 1215443505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215443507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a semicolon meant to skip that bit, but it doesn't match another semicolon < 1215443509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6443244db122653f5479bd1751988175 *mycology.b98 < 1215443523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't you fix that bug some ages ago iirc? < 1215443527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a semicolon in column 110 which it skips to < 1215443535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from column 47) < 1215443550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, this is from the latest version of mycology which dates back to may < 1215443564 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215443604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have a changelog up to march and I don't see me messing with that, but it could be it was earlier < 1215443604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, I think I just have an old version < 1215443616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2007-12-02 16:35 mycology.b98 < 1215443626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's old :-) < 1215443626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to get a newer version, I think < 1215443718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are commited locally (with minor changes to add a comment explaining why I did that in global.h) but not pushed as the local code is broken (changing TURT to use the a library for xml generation, library is added under lib/genx/*.c) < 1215443734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1215443745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remove the bit of my code that patches cfunge once the newer version is pushed < 1215443758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the fingerprint still says example.com as the URL < 1215443768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that once I have a website up describing it < 1215443790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a page in the C-INTERCAL manual describing IFFI now, so I just need to put the manual online and I can link to that < 1215443797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, have you tried the test program? < 1215443811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pit/tests/iffit1.i with pit/tests/iffit2.b98 < 1215443877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haven't tried it yet as my local cfunge source doesn't compile atm < 1215443886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215443890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it with an older revision < 1215443899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy, it will be fixed soon < 1215444495 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215445520 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-39.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1215445768 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1215445778 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-176-095.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1215446826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1215446830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215446831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would this be valid C: < 1215446832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genxStartElement(g_path) || return false; < 1215446834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1215446841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, return isn't a function < 1215446847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1215446848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do || exit(EXIT_FAILURE) though < 1215446849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1215446856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I don't want that < 1215446859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that exit returns void < 1215446876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suggest you use an if < 1215446933 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.109.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215446964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1215446967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1215446970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win < 1215446994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215447023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when did it arrive at your end? < 1215447026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:09 < 1215447035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I focused Konversation < 1215447051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I finished my C-INTERCAL/cfunge FFI < 1215447060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant to the second, really < 1215447060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215447064 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cool < 1215447272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, btw you said genx handled CDATA? it doesn't < 1215447277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the code is way ugglier now < 1215447281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I was pretty sure it did. < 1215447287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will mention this is thanks to you in a comment < 1215447289 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it may be uglier but it's more correct < 1215447294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of static buffers < 1215447301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I need to do stuff like: < 1215447309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : snprintf(sminx, sizeof(sminx), FIXEDFMT, PRINTFIXED(minx)); < 1215447309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : snprintf(sminy, sizeof(sminy), FIXEDFMT, PRINTFIXED(miny)); < 1215447315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : genxAddAttributeLiteral(gw, gns, (constUtf8)"x", (constUtf8)sminx); < 1215447315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : genxAddAttributeLiteral(gw, gns, (constUtf8)"y", (constUtf8)sminy); < 1215447319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on and so on < 1215447323 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: send patches to tim bray making it better. < 1215447326 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure he'd love them < 1215447353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also it contained sprintf() for untrusted data instead of snprintf() (fixed that) and lots and lots of compiler warnings < 1215447369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed all but two compiler warings < 1215447371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings* < 1215447378 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was developed circa 2004 < 1215447382 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gcc is probably more pedantic now < 1215447384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again thanks to you cfunge will no longer compile with -Werror < 1215447389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you plan to send me a patch < 1215447399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fix the other two maybe...? < 1215447415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, they are quite complex cases of casting a const char * to a char * < 1215447423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will need major redesign to work < 1215447462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why you don't use const :) < 1215447467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ... < 1215447471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code already does < 1215447478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a string literal is a const char * < 1215447526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also creating a path is much harder as the path goes inside an attribute < 1215447537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to malloc() a buffer for them and grow it as needed < 1215447546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, are you going to complain at me for like five hours about it? < 1215447556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I can't just append like I could with fprintf() before < 1215447570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, why would I? < 1215447587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I think you overcomplicate stuff though < 1215447591 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you've managed 5 minutes already < 1215447591 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215447602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[... and me overcomplicating stuff? Coming from you?] < 1215447624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer S-Expressions < 1215447629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more elegant than XML < 1215447678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Produce s-expressions and use the scheme SXML library to turn them into XML. < 1215447686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it runs on Guile so you should be able to embed it. < 1215447691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215447703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be even more overcomplicated and bloated < 1215447744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, anyone who likes looking at Befunge-98 code with COME FROMs in: http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal/pit/tests/iffit2.b98 < 1215447755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that interfaces with http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal/pit/tests/iffit1.i < 1215447770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a test program, all they do is print out numbers in sequence as they do various tests < 1215447809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I went a bit overboard in the Befunge program < 1215447836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty dense, with code interleaving around other code, and also self-modifying < 1215447845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that, but it alters the syntax of the INTERCAL program < 1215447848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I wanted to test that < 1215447914 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215447915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that befunge code is write only heh < 1215447927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can read individual bits < 1215447931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by tracing them in your head < 1215447940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start at the start, and also in each possible direction from each middot < 1215447966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find Befunge isn't usually as hard to read as it looks < 1215447972 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1215447977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to something like Unlambda, for instance, which is usually as hard to read as it looks < 1215448024 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215448117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blregh I got to write a generic string builder with append or this will be painful < 1215448125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that could be useful in other parts too < 1215448140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I can take that from crossfire maybe, it got a stringconstructor iirc < 1215448439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "BAD: O opened 'mycotemp.tmp' for reading, won't overwrite it and thus won't test fingerprint" <-- what does that mean? < 1215448453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it means just what it says < 1215448459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that you should do rm mycotemp.tmp < 1215448462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then try again < 1215448462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it managed to open 'mycotemp.tmp' so it won't overwrite it < 1215448468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215448472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you actually put something important in a file called mycotemp.tmp :-P < 1215448502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case ick passes mycology < 1215448518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's cfunge doing all the work behind the scenes, of course < 1215448521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not that surprising < 1215448586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should write a test for IFFI... < 1215448596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works Mycology-style < 1215448605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just writing numbers < 1215448611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose Mycology writes numbers to start with < 1215448656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to since it only assumes that the few instructions in sanity.bf work :-) < 1215448665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1215448672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case I wrote out numbers to save program size < 1215448681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I could easily have assumed that , works and not . < 1215448685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also because reading out strings is a pain in INTERCAL < 1215448696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215448701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not that easily, you'd be limited to control codes until you got arithmetic working < 1215448718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true < 1215448727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why I chose it like that ;-) < 1215448739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, for testing = < 1215448745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the echo command does the same thing on all platforms < 1215448758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it just happens to have the same meaning in DOS, in Windows and in UNIX < 1215448772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work for C-system-style = < 1215448789 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not exactly the same, as you might imagine < 1215448794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1215448805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when given one argument consisting of nothing but letters it is < 1215448811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that argument isn't "on" or "off" < 1215448815 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215448849 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pedantic enough now, I approve < 1215448867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: echo doesn't exist in Windows or DOS except as a builtin of the shell < 1215448882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yep, but C system() always invokes the shell in DOS/Windows < 1215448885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but = was C system() < 1215448911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except under DJGPP it optimises it if it notices that the shell isn't needed, but invokes the shell if it is < 1215448921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it always works as if the shell was invoked < 1215448935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it know that at compile-time? O_o < 1215448961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it doesn't, there's a check in their version of libc < 1215448970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215448976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1215448981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it know it even then < 1215448994 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell in DOS is pretty dumb < 1215449009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes compared to a UNIX shell < 1215449015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still usable, just about < 1215449017 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there's the short list of builtins < 1215449025 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no globbing < 1215449035 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much interesting chaining of commands < 1215449036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: checks to see if it refers to an executable on the PATH that isn't a shell builtin < 1215449042 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the shell handle piping ? < 1215449048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: not exactly < 1215449049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1215449053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just realized that being DOS-only means that you only have to worry about one shell :-) < 1215449054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DOS is single-threaded < 1215449065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it pipes through tempfiles < 1215449071 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ew < 1215449078 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds familiar < 1215449082 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder if I suppressed that memory < 1215449093 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: winnt cmd.exe doesn't do that does it? < 1215449104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: not sure, cmd.exe is somewhat improved < 1215449110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a copy here to try it on < 1215449117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to switch to a Windows computer to test < 1215449118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1215449140 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few years ago when I was in the transitional phase from thinking in windows to thinking in unix... I used to write a lot of batch files that invoked inline perl < 1215449150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. yes | head terminates < 1215449159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's good < 1215449162 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was surprised how hard I could push windows piping < 1215449171 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: i hate you for not being Deewiant < 1215449172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1215449174 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people act like cmd.exe almost doesn't have it, but it's actually rather good < 1215449190 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: me too < 1215449198 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: start being Deewiant < 1215449207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quote I remember, not sure where from: "Microsoft shoved a lot of standard UNIX shell functionality into cmd.exe while no-one was looking" < 1215449211 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: but I also reserve some hatred for Deewiant choosing such a name < 1215449221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cmd.exe still has insane variables < 1215449240 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the rest of it's hideous < 1215449260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quoting rules of process execution on windows are brilliant < 1215449264 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's surprising how similar a batch file can be to a simple shell script if you have enough textutils installed < 1215449270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me dig them up for your viewing pleasure < 1215449282 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nobody ever, EVER quotes correctly in windows batch files < 1215449288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've run into them before < 1215449296 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: people think it's bad in unix, but... urgh < 1215449306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215449308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have managed to quote correctly before, but only in situations where all the things I was quoting were string literals < 1215449311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then it can be tricky < 1215449336 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always manage to invoke the crazy thing to do filenames correctly < 1215449343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fish shell never requires quoting < 1215449344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can't find them < 1215449345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda like that < 1215449349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh too much to read < 1215449349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a sane shell < 1215449350 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other day I found even that got me into trouble because doing so expands the full path, and I needed a relative form < 1215449352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything important? < 1215449354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: well, cmd.exe tab-completes the quoting correctly < 1215449354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I remembered a place where they're linked but it wasn't there after all < 1215449357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1215449361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a useful trick to know < 1215449369 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant for variables < 1215449372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really, we were just discussing Windows shells < 1215449377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1215449381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1215449382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: yep, that's harder < 1215449384 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the big problem is this, the shell doesn't remove quotes on batch file invocations < 1215449413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: not even if you use call? < 1215449418 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if your batch file needs to pass the param on again, it's going to either add another layer of quotes if the original user included them, or fail to add them and possibly break stuff < 1215449428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1215449432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here we are < 1215449433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.environment.getcommandlineargs.aspx < 1215449438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive batch files were always a bad idea under DOS < 1215449446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a double quotation mark follows two or an even number of backslashes, each proceeding backslash pair is replaced with one backslash and the double quotation mark is removed. If a double quotation mark follows an odd number of backslashes, including just one, each preceding pair is replaced with one backslash and the remaining backslash is removed; however, in this case the double quotation mark is not removed. < 1215449457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as they acted like UNIX exec when called by default, and you needed a special prefix to be able to return from them < 1215449489 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so to feel a little bit safe you can go "%~1" < 1215449490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same under windows < 1215449494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prefix is "call" < 1215449497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that page doesn't open correctly in Konqueror at all, there are no scrollbars so I can't read more than the first few sentences < 1215449500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, I know < 1215449514 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not surprising... I pasted the relevant bit < 1215449521 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aah see that's the correct thing, "%~1" but I sometimes forget, the other day I was using something like "%~dpnx1" which is fine but it does expand to a full absolute canonical path, which can be bad < 1215449524 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215449541 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALO AIS523 < 1215449544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that definition's the way C strings are quoted < 1215449553 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but these are invocations you never see in batch files you encounter, those are just pretty much always wrong < 1215449573 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ooh, that's eeevil < 1215449588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, is it? darn < 1215449611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: except that it strips unquoted double-quotes rather than using them as string delimiters < 1215449659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: well, utilities like find on UNIX/Linux have similar quoting problems when used on files that contain literal newlines in their names < 1215449677 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any kind of space, I thought < 1215449691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: it's possible to quote spaces more easily than newlines < 1215449696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they can also be problems < 1215449720 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's something I find really odd about 'find'. By default, filenames with spaces break it. You can use \0, and usually I do, but newlines feel "good enough" in a lot of cases < 1215449729 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but only the most recent gnu finds allow you to use newline as delimeter < 1215449751 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the point where I usually end up doing - perl -pe 's/\n/\0/;' | xargs -0 < 1215449763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: well, I use newline-delimited find when compiling cfunge, because I know that AnMaster's unlikely to put newlines or spaces in filenames there < 1215449783 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in my view, spaces in filenames is pretty common. Newlines is... really odd < 1215449785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, let me know if you plan to give two files the same filename in different directories, my current code will break if you do that < 1215449799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: spaces in filenames is common on Windows but not on Unices < 1215449822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we are < 1215449823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb776391.aspx < 1215449833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2n backslashes followed by a quotation mark produce n backslashes followed by a quotation mark. < 1215449834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas newlines in filenames is impossible on Windows before the most recent versions (and impossible through the normal interfaces) and very rare on Unices < 1215449836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2n) + 1 backslashes followed by a quotation mark again produce n backslashes followed by a quotation mark. < 1215449840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n backslashes not followed by a quotation mark simply produce n backslashes. < 1215449854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ugh, that is pretty different from C quoting < 1215449860 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. So I'd be pretty comfortable using newlines < 1215449872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, and that's what I was looking for. :-) < 1215449876 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but xargs on lots of machines won't let me. -0 works everywhere though < 1215449905 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* for provincial values of everywhere < 1215449909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: well, keeping in with the normal INTERCAL method of finding an unusual way to do things, I used find -printf to print out shell commands and piped find's output to sh < 1215449925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately that is a bit insane < 1215449934 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually... I invoke find like this really very often < 1215449944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I try to find a way that's sane but nobody uses it for some reason < 1215449961 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find -print0 | xargs -0r -n1 bash -c 'mv -i "$0" "$0.bak"' < 1215449967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as C-INTERCAL running just fine after a configure and make but no install, you simply have to give the path to the executable explicitly < 1215449970 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ rename filename to filename.bak. < 1215449991 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally safe. *bash* making things *safe*. Hard to imagine isn't it < 1215450002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: find -printf 'mv %f %f.bak' | sh < 1215450014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that method breaks if the filenames contain literal double-quotes, surely? < 1215450020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, your method < 1215450020 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: less safe, spaces, newlines, etc < 1215450024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh my method breaks a lot more < 1215450024 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1215450029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't meant to be safe < 1215450030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just insane < 1215450079 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because bash gets exactly 3 parameters with that invocation, and $0 is the one that came after the command < 1215450092 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I have double-quoted the $0, that's watertight, or should be < 1215450106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1215450142 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is avoiding talking directly about the param until the last moment. Xargs passes it through onto the end of the list without any of that troublesome parsing < 1215450171 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funnny the awkward recipies I end up using on a daily basis because they seem safe < 1215450178 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(safe like the defaults should have been, damn it!) < 1215450201 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dangerously close to cargo cult programming < 1215450380 0 :Slereah-!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215450390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: also, let me know if you plan to give two files the same filename in different directories, my current code will break if you do that <-- hm possible that will happen, indeed < 1215450401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what would you use it for? < 1215450405 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that method shouldn't be underestimated though, just because it makes it easy to review the craziness before it runs < 1215450411 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that can prevent a lot of grief < 1215450411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when I replace the funge space with a faster version I'm likely to offer both as alternatives at compile time for a while < 1215450412 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215450414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I did last time < 1215450431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, but it wouldn't be right to compile both in at once? < 1215450437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed not both at once < 1215450440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I just compile and link together all the .c files in /lib and /src < 1215450442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both at once would be an error < 1215450449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's right for it to break when that happens < 1215450455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1215450459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll need to not compile one or the other depending on circumstances < 1215450464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine, just let me know when it happens < 1215450468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1215450481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you use lib/*/*.c or lib/blah/*.c atm? < 1215450491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in the next commit two subdirs to lib will be added < 1215450504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: recursive find atm < 1215450517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so effectively lib/*/*.c < 1215450521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with any number of */ < 1215450556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib/**/*.c in zsh < 1215450559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also in that commit cfunge will contain MIT code as well as current GPL3, LGPL and BSD (see COPYING, it contains several licenses, due to the libraries) < 1215450567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah < 1215450577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah? < 1215450585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yet another zsh user" < 1215450586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that isn't an issue really < 1215450591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but zsh is quite bloated IMO < 1215450597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes some nice features < 1215450602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care all that much about the licences of things I link to as long as they're compatible < 1215450602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I would like to see in bash < 1215450605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you use sh then < 1215450607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1215450607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some are just bloat IMO < 1215450615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think average is best < 1215450615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anything GPLv3-compliant can legally link to LGPL, BSD and MIT < 1215450620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there aren't any legal problems there < 1215450630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I checked that before < 1215450648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however GPLv3 is more restrictive than GPLv2 so I have to take care that I don't relicence something under GPLv3 under GPLv2 without permission < 1215450663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and also some gpl2+, I reused some code from the MMORPG crossfire (on which I'm a developer), for string buffers (don't worry it is on the heap) < 1215450684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because stringbuffer_append(sb, "foo"); is so much easier than doing realloc yourself < 1215450717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't worry about things on stack vs. heap, etc., because the way I've set it up I'm just about immune to anything but stack-smashing and your interpreter recursively calling mine, neither of which are likely < 1215450727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1215450762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I can think of two things that would cause major messup (but that I don't plan to do): 1) pthreads 2) fork() which returns < 1215450773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't worry, I don't plan to do either < 1215450791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AFAICT the second would simply fork the running INTERCAL interp with no problems except confusion for the user < 1215450799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215450801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right in that the first could cause interesting results, though < 1215450820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an understatment < 1215450850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but compared to the number of interesting interactions that there are in INTERCAL at the moment, most likely it would fit right in < 1215450885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is IFFI valgrind clean btw? < 1215450902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the fingerprint side has to be, it does nothing but toggle static variables < 1215450912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I don't think either side mallocs < 1215450920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for allocating an IP on startup < 1215450924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1215450927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used throughout the entire progra < 1215450929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/m/ < 1215450934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I don't see how it could fail < 1215450979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well cfunge doesn't free everything at end unless it is built as DEBUG. But I mainly meant no "real" memory leaks and no invalid read/writes and such < 1215450995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you ask? interest? < 1215451017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK the programs that C-INTERCAL outputs, and its runtime libraries, are valgrind clean, and the compiler itself leaks like a sieve < 1215451023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes because of interest and because I like good code < 1215451034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1215451072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder if TURT will work, time to test with new code < 1215451150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yay segfault < 1215451407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1215451447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, there? < 1215451451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, this is the result: < 1215451451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215451456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<![CDATA[path{fill:none;stroke-width:0.00005px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:miter}]]> < 1215451465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, as you suggested genx, how do I fix that? < 1215451480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, you're doing something wrong. Dunno what. < 1215451498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I just use genxAddText() < 1215451503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what I should use instead < 1215451509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Read the docs. < 1215451513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I have... < 1215451524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you, I haven't used genx for anything big. But I've heard of people using it to much success and I know it works well. < 1215451625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also how do I get it to write this type of tags instead of < 1215451642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't, AnMaster. That's not part of the Canonical XML that genx writes. < 1215451654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It aims for the maximum compatibility and correctness. < 1215451720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, in fact it seems impossible to do CDATA < 1215451733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you even need it in this case? < 1215451735 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for convenience of writing < 1215451735 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need it < 1215451740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just add the text without the cdata wrapper < 1215451744 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and genx will handle it for you < 1215451821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it also fails to generate paths btw < 1215451829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1215451833 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i guess that's your fault :p < 1215451933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to Deewiant svg should have a max line length of 256 chars, however genx writes it all on one line... < 1215452108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you need to add the newlines yourself < 1215452116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic XML has no such limitation suggestions < 1215452179 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah nothing will enforce that. < 1215452180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215452185 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a reccomendation < 1215452187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore it, it's silly < 1215452225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, konq can no longer view the image < 1215452314 0 :Slereah_!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215452357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seems the order of width and viewBox elements matters, both for konq and inscape < 1215452359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inkscape* < 1215452369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genx refuses to put width first < 1215452371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is needed < 1215452376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1215452384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put width last < 1215452391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked fine for me < 1215452407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothiing can enforce that < 1215452409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml specifically says: < 1215452411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ordering < 1215452444 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215452644 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215452749 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215452917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see what the issue is < 1215452920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genx again < 1215452937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it added svg: to every single element, if that is done, it doesn't work for some reason < 1215452948 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't set the namespace, then < 1215452950 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1215452955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genx is not the problem < 1215452956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your use of it is < 1215452959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1215452960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely < 1215452963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did set the namespace < 1215452965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the issue < 1215452975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I don't, and just add xmlns by hand it works < 1215453426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pushed the fixed code so that patch no longer is needed < 1215453437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok < 1215453486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, two things: the file is now way larger than before, it generates svg file that doesn't work in konq < 1215453501 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am not your personal genx support team. < 1215453505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop bothering me about it. < 1215454388 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215454526 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215454788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it seems I misunderstood width/height values before, they are "how wide should it show up as" < 1215454794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why the odd *10000 worked < 1215454794 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1215454796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so < 1215454800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best is to just not set it < 1215454807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then defaults to 100% of viewport < 1215454812 0 :Slereah-!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215454977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought I read somewhere in the standard that it's good form to set them < 1215454983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find it any more so I guess not < 1215454997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not 100% either < 1215455028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I can find now is < 1215455029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVG content itself optionally can provide information about the appropriate viewport region for the content via the width and height XML attributes on the outermost 'svg' element. < 1215455032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"absolute units identifiers are only recommended for the width and the height on outermost 'svg' elements and situations where the content contains no transformations and it is desirable to specify values relative to the device pixel grid or to a particular real world unit size. < 1215455033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1215455040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just optional < 1215455066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the correct way would be to do something like 800xwhatever the other unit scales to < 1215455067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such then < 1215455425 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215455430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the element it just defines how large you want the entire image to be displayed as < 1215456094 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215456318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"brb, hopefully" < 1215456984 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215457409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215457438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just decided cfunge got large enough to need a credits/thanks to file, should I use your real name or? < 1215457445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same question for Deewiant btw) < 1215457474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real name is fine < 1215457486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215457489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 I think < 1215457489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1215457489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does c-intercal's copyright file say? < 1215457489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that < 1215457497 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link a url too < 1215457500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a COPYING file < 1215457505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in just a list of licenses < 1215457508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to use Deewiant's permalink, too < 1215457530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ick doesn't have a COPYRIGHT one < 1215457541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it got is a "Discredits" section in README < 1215457611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know url to use for ais523 < 1215457623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: call me Alex Smith, no url < 1215457624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have one < 1215457629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215457633 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes you do < 1215457638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso-std.org/~ais523/ < 1215457674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: look at what's there < 1215457678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly a homepage right now < 1215457686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it only takes a `vi index.html` < 1215457687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be an inappropriate URL for AnMaster's purposes < 1215457700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? for thanking you? Don't see why. < 1215457720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for thanking ais523 for finding bugs and for writing IFFI < 1215457739 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215457756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you're suggesting he links to a directory listing that contains nothing but some Agora stuff? < 1215457765 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at the very second that's all it has < 1215457772 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will likely have a homepage at one point < 1215457780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a canonical unchanging URL now, so what's the problem? < 1215457789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also an identifying URI < 1215457794 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to distinguish you from any other Alex Smith < 1215457794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: eventualism in changelogs is rarely a good idea... < 1215457805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not a changelog < 1215457808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a THANKS file < 1215457823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, exactly < 1215457836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THANKS to some random agoran ramblings for finding out bugs and writing a fingerprint..."? < 1215457869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thanks to Alex Smith for being an awesome person < 1215457869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, could I also have a url at eso-std.org then? XD < 1215457897 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 3 goats. Then I'll consider it. < 1215457903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, 3 goats? < 1215457912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, for what purpose? < 1215457913 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sacrificed. < 1215457917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Religious. < 1215457925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, animal rights! < 1215457937 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up, my religion says I can do it QED. < 1215457953 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-39.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1215457962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: presumably you'd go mad if I created an account for AnMaster, too? < 1215457968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I would without your permission < 1215457972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In the insanity sense? < 1215457972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1215457977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: in the anger sense? < 1215457981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, would you try to stop me? < 1215457992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity isn't really that hard to come by in #esoteric < 1215457998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can I? < 1215458003 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be too busy dancing around like a chicken and barking out the Zimbabwean anthem to be angry. < 1215458011 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no. Not unless he joins ESO (oh god) :p < 1215458031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ESO? < 1215458043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an Esoteric Standards Organisation < 1215458044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. yeah. < 1215458047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just me and tusho at the moment < 1215458048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice < 1215458053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the pop standards sense, actually < 1215458055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some work which would fit in that < 1215458059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we aren't getting any standardisation done because tusho's too busy doing other things < 1215458061 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standards part is a subdivision < 1215458061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funge108 standard < 1215458064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm working on < 1215458065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like repeatedly moving everything around the website < 1215458071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tusho ^ < 1215458076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wanting to reinvent everything from scratch < 1215458080 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, well, we'll see when it's done < 1215458085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you object? :) < 1215458085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funge-108 is exactly the sort of thing it ought to be for < 1215458090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: to what? < 1215458096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reinventing everything! < 1215458102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not particularly < 1215458108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be nice to get some standardisation done at some point < 1215458164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/ < 1215458175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit old have been too busy until now < 1215458186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, one thing that came to mind: if UTF isn't mandated in Funge-108, mandate it < 1215458188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe we should just work on the standard ourselves (mostly you), and then put it up on ESO when tusho's ready < 1215458191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tomorrow I will be busy packing to go to Norway for some days < 1215458205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh you mean load it as utf8 file? < 1215458208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I disagree < 1215458215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be every char is 8 bits < 1215458221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's dated as of my birthday, thanks for the present < 1215458223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unportable < 1215458226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds reasonable, I don't really care about funge-108 < 1215458237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well ok "as native byte size" < 1215458239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine "det här er iso-8859-1" < 1215458243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i < 1215458277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, issue: It would be exceedingly hard to write a funge-108 interpreter in funge then < 1215458285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in brainfuck < 1215458291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really < 1215458295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you want to try to parse utf8 by hand? < 1215458297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier in fact < 1215458307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can assume that it's utf-8 < 1215458316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows, you can then convert to utf-16 < 1215458320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote FOR Deewiant's proposal < 1215458321 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215458326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere else, just pass it directly to functions < 1215458331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is easier to just read it in to char * < 1215458338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since anybody with a locale other than utf-8 is wrong anyway ;-)) < 1215458345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's not. it's not portable. < 1215458349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1215458354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will still be reading it in to char* < 1215458358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is not easy in C without using an external library < 1215458364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that if you need to convert it to a certain encoding, you can do so. < 1215458370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do not need to < 1215458392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, like what if you fread() in chunks of 1024 and a char end up over a boundary, you need to parse utf8 and load every utf8 char into one cell < 1215458397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is multibyte < 1215458403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after converting it to unicode too I assume? < 1215458405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh IMO < 1215458417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't say that < 1215458417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because utf8 chars can be up to 5 bytes iirc < 1215458420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1215458428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite sure it can be 5 < 1215458431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 4. < 1215458446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've implemented UTF-8 decoders and encoders; don't bother questioning me on this. :-) < 1215458465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 6 is theoretically allowed but if the UTF-8 is used to encode Unicode, it's 4. < 1215458486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215458491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but yeah, you have two options there < 1215458497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only 17*65536 characters in Unicode < 1215458501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you load it then < 1215458504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't end up more than 4 bytes long < 1215458504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) like you said, every utf-8 char in one cell < 1215458523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) you don't have to change your program at all: multibyte chars are multiple cells. < 1215458540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'd favour combining chars loading into the same cells as the char they're combining onto if you're going down that route < 1215458540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference in case 2 from now being that a string can be assumed to be valid UTF-8. < 1215458543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and y should tell the program which is the case? < 1215458549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: even if read backwards? < 1215458568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because then a program written for variant 1 and variant 2 won't work vertically in same interpreter < 1215458574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as columns won't match < 1215458581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you pass it to any instruction which uses a string, yes. < 1215458595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I meant, pick one for the standard. < 1215458602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1215458605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no string-based instructions in Funge-98, only in some of the fingerprints < 1215458610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i and o < 1215458618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and = < 1215458621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I thought they read onto the playfield < 1215458623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "ö"< < 1215458625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forgot about = < 1215458634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they take filenames < 1215458639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 0gnirts < 1215458643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah < 1215458660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: replace 0gnirts with gnirts < 1215458672 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215458674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's another issue. < 1215458675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would break existing programs though < 1215458720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fingerprint loading will be extended to accept urls, retaining the old fingerprint system for compatibility with old fingerprints < 1215458725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but new ones should use URIs < 1215458728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not URLs < 1215458731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant URIs < 1215458739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho managed to brainwash you then :-) < 1215458759 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainwash? < 1215458760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1215458762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) < 1215458769 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, AnMaster < 1215458773 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all URLs are URIs < 1215458773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? I talked to Pressy about it too and he agreed assuming existing fingerprints still would work < 1215458775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, I think it's somewhat annoying that I have to use legacy APIs just because I don't know the encoding of a given file < 1215458775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just say URIs < 1215458776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fine < 1215458782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, I see < 1215458782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215458783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes it was a typo on irc < 1215458784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so UTF-8 would be nice < 1215458789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or UTF-whatever < 1215458791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway < 1215458793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 and 32 are fine too < 1215458794 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget about old extensions < 1215458796 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215458808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have a funge-98 mode, AnMaster < 1215458815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let funge-108 be nice and URIy without kludges < 1215458818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I already have different modes < 1215458830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to handle space issue in strings in befunge93 programs < 1215458838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and handle experimental stuff in funge108 < 1215458841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I try them out < 1215458849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like extending y instruction to have more info < 1215458859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the support for trinary funges would be nice < 1215458861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1215458875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may drop that < 1215458922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see, exactly, different modes < 1215458933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so funge-108 doesn't need to keep back-compat < 1215458935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also future compatibility for quantum funges I guess < 1215458948 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215458978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, in the link I gave above to the draft read section 5.5 < 1215458981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see some wild ideas < 1215458984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that < 1215459010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh and Chris Pressy which I talked to in email did suggest retaining some backward compatiblity < 1215459019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mph < 1215459025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miles per hour < 1215459028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1215459031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, 'mmph' < 1215459033 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 'meh' < 1215459035 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mmmph < 1215459052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many multiple miles per hour? ~~~ < 1215459070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1215459173 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: about cfunge's page - < 1215459177 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page is in english but you have Mars < 1215459180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be March.. < 1215459183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1215459185 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's not in english < 1215459191 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, my eyes are deceiving me! < 1215459213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1215459215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: there are several English problems in the Funge-108 standard too, mostly nonidiomatic things and using slightly the wrong word, but I should be able to fix them once I've had time to look at it properly < 1215459231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would be helpful < 1215459261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, please work with the lyx file when doing so to make it easier to co-operate < 1215459311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one English mistake you make a lot: "The Funge-98 (Pressey, 1998) standard got several unclear corner cases and is also missing definitions for non-binary funges (like ternary ones)." < 1215459314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"got" should be "has" there < 1215459323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215459343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's always bothered me when talking to anmaster < 1215459349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just noticed now exactly what it is that bothered me < 1215459349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215459402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, according to search that was the only case of "got" in the file < 1215459415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good < 1215459420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do that a lot in speech, I meant < 1215459430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure how much it had ended up in the standard < 1215459431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215459454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a lot of it is just reformatted and clarified funge98 < 1215459464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed < 1215459477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because funge108 is a good language < 1215459499 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course you'd think that. < 1215459514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, heh < 1215459695 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-167.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215459831 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-142.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215460091 0 :oklopol!i=oko@a91-156-18-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1215460306 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And then-" < 1215460345 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.109.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215460795 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1215461013 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215461239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, for Funge-108, something that's been bothering me a lot is what happens if a file with mixed newlines uses \r then \n to do a blank line < 1215461417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't do a blank line < 1215461427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple as that :-P < 1215461431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, I know < 1215461439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think the standard should state that < 1215461450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying that \r\n is a line break, I think it does < 1215461459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but it also says that \r and \n are line breaks < 1215461462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's ambiguous < 1215461465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1215461468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really < 1215461468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should say which takes precedence < 1215461471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximal munch < 1215461474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215461482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately, disallow mixed newlines < 1215461494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same type throughout the file or it's invalid < 1215461498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mixed in one file? should be allowed < 1215461501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1215461506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume ccbi can handle it? < 1215461524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1215461533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why should it be allowed < 1215461550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is there any good reason to disable it? < 1215461567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's ambiguity is one < 1215461582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is the fact that vim doesn't like them < 1215461603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nor does Emacs < 1215461608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well most editors won't like it < 1215461614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I feel it should be allowed < 1215461620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim is the first editor I found that doesn't :-P < 1215461629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was the only one, TBH < 1215461631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does nano handle it? < 1215461639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, haven't used it < 1215461653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um nano transparently converts everything to LF iirc < 1215461713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably works then < 1215461716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, why allow it < 1215461729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it can be considered erroneous < 1215461760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215461808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Funge source file SHOULD not mix different styles of line ending. If a file does the result is implementation defined." < 1215461810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1215461816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost certainly unintentional, unless someone is writing Mycology < 1215461819 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just make it invalid < 1215461826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and must-reject < 1215461828 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215461837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, an implementation should not need to detect this condition < 1215461838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1215461901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation defined = This indicates the implementation can do whatever it wants (either from a list of alternatives or completely freely). However an interpreter MUST NOT error out or crash. < 1215461904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that seem sane? < 1215461906 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215461910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a definition of it < 1215461912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1215461914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a Funge-108 interpreter MAY also expose any number of proprietary instructions above < 1215461914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII 127 or below ASCII 0. < 1215461918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation defined, in general, also means that the implementation should document it < 1215461918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that based on my middot < 1215461923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did it say that beforehand? < 1215461927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it was in funge98 too < 1215461931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good < 1215461941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, good point < 1215461944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fffungi is legal in funge98 < 1215461951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, and another thing I was musing < 1215461956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : implementation defined = This indicates the implementation can do whatever it wants (either from a list of alternatives or completely freely). However an interpreter MUST NOT error out or crash. < 1215461957 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SANE < 1215461958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm what? < 1215461958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default bindings for A-Z < 1215461967 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interpreter SHOULD be able to error out on undefined behaviour. < 1215461969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they don't just reflect by default < 1215461969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying otherwise is madness! < 1215461981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but not in pure funge98 of course, as in it is a proprietary extension < 1215461986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: implementation defined and undefined are two quite separate things < 1215461988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: normally "implementation defined" means "must be documented from this list of choices" < 1215461991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, undefined yes < 1215461996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, implementation defined no < 1215462013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a list? not usually in my experience < 1215462022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas "unspecified" means "must be from this list of choices but need not be documented nor chosen consistently" < 1215462038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and "undefined"? < 1215462040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: maybe not a list, but a description of a set of choices is given < 1215462046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "can do anything at all when this happens" < 1215462051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes, but not always < 1215462068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even crash? I would like to define it as "error out gracefully but not crash" < 1215462072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is valid < 1215462073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, the set contains "or something else" < 1215462086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in some cases it is a list of valid ways to do it, and in other it is just totally implementation defined < 1215462089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples: < 1215462096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk <--- implementation defined from a list < 1215462098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1215462101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to list them < 1215462112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :201-% <-- implementation defined, not from a list < 1215462112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said that usually, in my experience, one is not given a list < 1215462117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that can happen < 1215462132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, both cases exist in funge108 < 1215462147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninteresting, that wasn't the point < 1215462253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyhoo, I was thinking that handy stack instructions or something for A-Z would be nice < 1215462266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1215462276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1215462280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when no fingerprints are loaded < 1215462282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default behaviour < 1215462285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1215462290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that documented to reflect? < 1215462308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh you mean use it for other instructions? < 1215462309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think that such handy stack instructions should be in a fingerprint < 1215462313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by default < 1215462318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to agree < 1215462344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that it's a bit of a waste to have 27 instructions all of which reflect < 1215462390 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b -- a a b is one which would have eliminated a lot of uses of p and g in mycology < 1215462426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that one is simple: \: < 1215462428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1215462430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\: < 1215462430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1215462431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1215462438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? < 1215462446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a b -- a b b < 1215462451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that \ after : is a no-op < 1215462456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a b -- a b b < 1215462458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1215462458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1215462461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b -- a b b b < 1215462464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you dup twice < 1215462469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1215462472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\:\ < 1215462474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I mean < 1215462475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant* < 1215462482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b -- b a a < 1215462482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't work either < 1215462484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you do that with the stack stack? < 1215462493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would need even more code < 1215462507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a secondary data store < 1215462515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you *could* have a fingerprint for it < 1215462518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's the stack stack or a cell in funge-space or a variable or whatever < 1215462523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I could < 1215462529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have a fingerprint for a lot of things < 1215462534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mycology couldn't depend on that of course < 1215462537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: or what about doing it with the y instruction with a massively high argument? < 1215462541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with minifunge fingerprints are obsoleted anyway :-) < 1215462559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would need g/p to store how massively < 1215462572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I'm not sure cfunge will ever implement that < 1215462573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't actually < 1215462586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhoo < 1215462591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ minifunge can't do anything that C/D/whatever fingerprints can do < 1215462595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think 26 extra instructions for 'r' is kinda pointless < 1215462608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the point is that they aren't for 'r' < 1215462615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can do everything they can without requiring an interpreter update < 1215462616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather they're undefined, so error until you give them a definition < 1215462626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like CREATE-able instructions in INTERCAL < 1215462627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well define them to be useful by default < 1215462627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? open sockets? read files? < 1215462634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO T .1 is an error by default < 1215462643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's in iffit1.i and it gains a meaning by the time that line runs < 1215462665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure, if = is there then yes but nonportably < 1215462668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, implement TRDS in pure minifunge and I may be interested < 1215462675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215462681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just writing a simple test for TRDS took weeks < 1215462692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes I know how mad it is < 1215462694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including implementing it in D, though) < 1215462700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1215462706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that you can ship fingerprints with your program < 1215462723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or the forth stack one? could that be done in minifunge? < 1215462724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you could have a fingerprint called 0 < 1215462730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it could < 1215462732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all you needed to do was ( at the start of the program to load it < 1215462737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not in cfunge without a major crash atm < 1215462745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many interpreters don't support 0 < 1215462747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... cfunge included < 1215462755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I could support it with some change < 1215462761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that hard < 1215462761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically speaking there are no limitations on fingerprint names < 1215462764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, they all could < 1215462765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just numbers < 1215462768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many don't, regardless < 1215462772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to store the last valid fingerprint in some other way < 1215462788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, currently I know that I reached end of the fingerprint array by a 0 < 1215462799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninteresting < 1215462820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes indeed < 1215462843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there are two things to note for funge 108 < 1215462871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) each fingerprint will be able to be loaded by URI, existing fingerprints by the "legacy fingerprint" too < 1215462891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) how do do the "push one cell with data for unloading fingerprint" < 1215462898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got a good idea for the latter? < 1215462911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will you differentiate between an URI and a legacy fingerprint < 1215462915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're both done by ( < 1215462931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just say it's an implementation-defined value < 1215462937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in REFC < 1215462941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it's an array index < 1215462971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good idea < 1215462974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how will you differentiate between an URI and a legacy fingerprint < 1215462975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1215462997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) first try to load it as a uri (it will be gnirts like currently) < 1215463003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) if none match, try to load it the old way < 1215463018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that seem sane? < 1215463031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do URIs have some defined syntax? < 1215463037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1215463046 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier < 1215463046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently so < 1215463048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that works < 1215463052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme#Generic_syntax < 1215463053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1215463074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway the implementation can, I assume, know what fingerprints it got < 1215463081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, still, that breaks old code < 1215463095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bother I guess since other stuff does too < 1215463095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well "TRUT"4( will still work with that scheme < 1215463115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while new fingerprints may be uri only < 1215463142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but something sneakier like "TRUT//:ptth"a1+( won't < 1215463165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what, would it currently? < 1215463169 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215463172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1215463175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that, exactly, of course < 1215463179 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something equivalent < 1215463182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also does any code do that? < 1215463183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the rules are given < 1215463188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, I don't know < 1215463197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be written < 1215463219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the majority of the code does it the normal way at least < 1215463238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1215463247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was only saying that that's not fully backwards-compatible < 1215463257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and funge-98 broke quite some funge-93 code < 1215463262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of code with spaces in strings < 1215463275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wasn't that ucommon at all < 1215463288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I am aware of this < 1215463289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that space thing broke for no good reason IMO < 1215463297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I got a good reason for URIs < 1215463301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name clashes < 1215463307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still get name clashes < 1215463311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just less likely < 1215463332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes much less likely, as you should use some domain you own < 1215463338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the number of potential funge-108 users it's even less likely ;-P < 1215463352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you should, but you might not. < 1215463357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well will you port mycology to it? if it becomes a standard < 1215463368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I'm sure eso-std.org will be happy to help then < 1215463370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1215463371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right tusho? < 1215463375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? < 1215463379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1215463379 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends if it's any good < 1215463411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and there is always stuff like free webhosting pages with lots of ads if you are really desperate < 1215463427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccbi and mycology were fun, and I can keep them up to date and free of bugs, but I won't completely rehaul them unless I get /really/ bored < 1215463574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we should try to reach the wider befunge community outside this channel, where else is there < 1215463577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any mailing lists? < 1215463597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's alt.lang.intercal, it's used for all esolangs but is pretty dead at the moment < 1215463604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still has several avid readers, just nobody writes anything there < 1215463615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't have anywhere I can *post* on usenet afaik < 1215463619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted CCBI only to the esolang wiki < 1215463622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe google groups? I don't know < 1215463625 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured it's the only place with any readers < 1215463648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't you make release announcements there? < 1215463890 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google groups is usenet, AnMaster. < 1215463916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yeah I should learn how to use that < 1215463945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google groups also has its own groups which aren't usenet < 1215463958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215463963 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1215463965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, they use different namespaces? < 1215463973 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1215464077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1215464090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use google groups other than for searching < 1215464097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same so far < 1215464142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one undef that I plan to change: fingerprints loaded by child ips < 1215464145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you suggest < 1215464149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are loaded or not? < 1215464157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for "loaded by child ips too" < 1215464164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1215464185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? yes I know ccbi does it the other way, but I feel keeping them loaded makes more sense < 1215464188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe that is just me < 1215464207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it probably does < 1215464208 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do use diferent namespaces < 1215464211 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1215464225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does tusho and ais523 think about this issue? < 1215464232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1215464281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, after all they are clones < 1215464307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which issue? I'm not too good with concurrent execution < 1215464322 0 :Slereah-!n=hix@ANantes-252-1-15-209.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215464339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should the list of loaded fingerprints be duplicated to the child ip, or should new threads start out with no fingerprints loaded? < 1215464357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicated IMO < 1215464367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have two threads the same as one old thread < 1215464386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, what I think too (but not what ccbi does) < 1215464390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was undefined in 98 < 1215464527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should URI matching be case insensitive or case sensitive? < 1215464537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about URIs < 1215464540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the latter < 1215464546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tusho ^ < 1215464551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insensitive in the domain name, definitely < 1215464556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest can be case-sensitive, though < 1215464562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you should make it so it isn't < 1215464562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is right < 1215464565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dns is case insensitive < 1215464566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URIs aren't < 1215464607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. "case insensitive in domain name part but implementation defined for the rest" (said clearer obviously) < 1215464610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1215464624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1215464630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recommend that programs get the case right anyway < 1215464636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215464656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not implementation defined AnMaster! < 1215464658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not a URI < 1215464661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URIs are CASE SENSITIVE < 1215464670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, except for the domain name part? < 1215464678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop < 1215464680 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 < 1215464681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start again < 1215464742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An implementation should accept uppercase letters as equivalent to lowercase in scheme names (e.g., allow "HTTP" as well as "http") for the sake of robustness but should only produce lowercase scheme names for consistency." < 1215464743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215464749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches onwards < 1215464783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, best is to just refer to that RFC in other words < 1215464797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215464798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what is the *authoritative* url to that rfc? < 1215464805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'RFC 3986' < 1215464809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the html version you linked? < 1215464820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt < 1215464822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that one's on the IETF website so it's likely pretty authoritative < 1215464824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215464837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but probably the text version is, not the html one < 1215464850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens kbibtex < 1215464987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in my opinion # at the edge should always jump over a space < 1215464995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so execute the first command at the other side, not the second < 1215465006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the playfield should act as though it's surrounded by infinite spaces < 1215465026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the playfield size is actually relevant to the way programs behave, and it shouldn't be IMO < 1215465053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I think Deewiant will disagree with that < 1215465059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise for j off the edge of the map (does mycology test that, by the way?) < 1215465077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1215465093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and why would I disagree < 1215465103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the smartest way of fixing it IMO < 1215465118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215465122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but currently it's ambiguous with 3 or 4 different interpretations < 1215465122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does ccbi do for it < 1215465136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void trampoline() { ip.move(); } < 1215465139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else < 1215465145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens, happens < 1215465220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215465334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berners-Lee, T., Fielding, R., and Masinter, L. (2005). Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic < 1215465334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Syntax. < 1215465334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : URL http://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt < 1215465341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love BibTex < 1215465343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215465767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as for k, it would likely be good to describe what 1k^ does; does the pointer start moving upwards from the ^ or from the cell after? < 1215465781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is in my local copy already < 1215465789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215465790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it just about half an hour ago < 1215465803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes k is tricky < 1215465809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? move from the current location if the IP or delta changed, from the next location otherwise? < 1215465823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // The weird stuff below, is, as described by CCBI: < 1215465823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // Instruction executes *at* k < 1215465823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // If the instruction k executes, changes delta or position, we are finished. < 1215465823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // If it doesn't we should jump to *after* the instruction k executed. < 1215465838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it changes position and then changes it back again? < 1215465839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rewrote that for the standard to be more generic < 1215465845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like what? < 1215465848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or delta < 1215465850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, like 4k[ < 1215465868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, help! ;P < 1215465906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think that should be treated as "If it doesn't we should jump to *after* the instruction k executed." < 1215465924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215465930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it count as changing delta or position there? < 1215465937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd say: no < 1215465940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did, it just changed it bacj < 1215465944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wut < 1215465944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bacj/back/ < 1215465949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does 4k[ do? < 1215465957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :varies < 1215465958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1215465959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes the delta, but then changes it back to its original value < 1215465965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what should 4k[ do? < 1215465968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what *should* 4k[ do then? < 1215465985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't know < 1215465991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is stuff like 0k^ < 1215465995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you'd like to do nothing < 1215466006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet have 4k[ also do nothing < 1215466013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I think 1k^z should be equivalent to zzz^ < 1215466016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really have both at once < 1215466018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot more orthogonal that way < 1215466032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k^z or 1kz^ < 1215466036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, k only takes one tick < 1215466037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1215466041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not wrt ticks < 1215466044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215466048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt where the IP ends up < 1215466053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215466056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215466116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1k^z or 1kz^ < 1215466127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k^z < 1215466132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. do ^ once, then do nothing < 1215466151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wrt fingerprint loading and implementation defined index: should that index also be usable to load the fingerprint with? < 1215466154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it does ^... it doesn't hit the z < 1215466158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, say, 1k4z pushes only one 4 < 1215466163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: up to you < 1215466164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it should do the ^ at the z < 1215466169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. after the command finishes executing < 1215466174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's interesting < 1215466182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't thought of that < 1215466185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215466215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it changes the delta, but still executes the z afterwards? < 1215466216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1215466226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't seem sane < 1215466228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more like zz^z < 1215466235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't see zzz^ making sense < 1215466251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: basically, consider what 1k4z does, it pushes 4 once, right? < 1215466261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1215466261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because after the 1k4, the next command to execute is the z < 1215466275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after doing 1k^z, the next command to execute should likewise be the z < 1215466287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I see all this < 1215466291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't make sense really as it changed direction < 1215466292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why zzz^ and not zz^z < 1215466329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, what would 1k>z do? Would it run the > twice? < 1215466345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I see what you're getting at now < 1215466353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2k#12345 < 1215466355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um that doesn't change so that would execute z the next tick < 1215466359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is the issue of: 2k; blah blah;4 < 1215466361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the next instruction after the k < 1215466364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do then? < 1215466377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is a good question! < 1215466380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I treat that identically to 2k4, the bit in-between is invisible < 1215466395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right like spaces then < 1215466402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 1k#12345 should be identical to zz#12345 < 1215466414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2k#12345 should be identical to zzz#2345 < 1215466419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in funge-108 Chris Pressy said that spaces should be skipped, I can paste the emails somewhere if you want < 1215466437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your rule of thumb is, 1kX is always zzX and 0kX is zzz (forgetting about ticks)? < 1215466438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not surprised, IMO that was the intention all along, it's just # that acts oddly < 1215466443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1215466461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 1k^z is zz^z which makes sense < 1215466468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1215466471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he also said: < 1215466471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not zzz^ like you said :-) < 1215466472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My feeling is that #2 is the right answer: reach past the space and < 1215466473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute the c instruction 4 times. That is, when the spec says "next" < 1215466473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "next instruction that would be executed if the k wasn't even < 1215466473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there". < 1215466473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However... if you take this as a principle, it suggests that the # < 1215466476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction should skip the next instruction that would be executed, < 1215466478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same way, no matter how many spaces there are between the # and < 1215466480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next instruction. I don't think anybody expects # to work that < 1215466482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way! < 1215466486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#2 was execute next instruction after the spaces) < 1215466493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so he's thought about it the same way I have. :-) < 1215466504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: # to me seems to be 'wrong' in a sense < 1215466507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but you all got be so confused now < 1215466508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it's un-Fungey < 1215466510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you forwarded him my thoughts (which I forwarded to you) < 1215466516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, k over a lot of stuff is not well defined really < 1215466518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2k@ < 1215466519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might save him some thinking :-P < 1215466521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for concurrent < 1215466522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1215466525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2kt < 1215466527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it cares about the dimensions of the playfield, not of the current situation < 1215466540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1215466545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about this INTERCAL style, k would 'supercharge' the next instruction to act multiple times < 1215466551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should always execute first instruction then? < 1215466564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: examples? I'm not sure exactly what you mean < 1215466592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, when # wraps it is always the first instruction after wrapping that will execute next < 1215466599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it won't skip first after wrapping < 1215466609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that makes sense too < 1215466615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1215466617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# f < 1215466621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will execute f < 1215466622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1215466638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what would make the most sense would be for 2k#12345 to be identical to 2k;;2345 and for # to take no ticks < 1215466641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be quite a change < 1215466647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, # f should execute f < 1215466684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clear to me that space and semicolon change the shape of the playfield, rather than being commadns < 1215466691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe # should do the same thing? < 1215466700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes space and ; are markers < 1215466705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should # be too? < 1215466709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1215466714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Deewiant think? < 1215466725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds interesting to be sure < 1215466747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: forward Chris my stuff since he seems to be thinking about it, I've done a lot of the thinking already < 1215466747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but k always take one tick ais523 < 1215466763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1215466763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a problem? < 1215466764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you want me to paste this discussion to him? < 1215466770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I mean my e-mails < 1215466781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm fairly sure I forwarded to you many months ago < 1215466787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on original discussion of k < 1215466789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you sent me emails? from what mail < 1215466801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got several thousands mails around < 1215466802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably from my iki.fi-address < 1215466807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which is < 1215466809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... does it make sense for space # space to be equivalent to ; space ; < 1215466811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg if you want < 1215466813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just search for my name < 1215466820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is in /whois) < 1215466826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. # is changing the shape of the playfield rather than moving the IP < 1215466857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for it to search < 1215466865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could take a while heh < 1215466878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um? < 1215466882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1215466893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have Google's over-a-decade worth of work on search powering my email search. < 1215466894 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215466901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No matches found" for you last name in message body < 1215466903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1215466911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in body? how about in sender? < 1215466914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in my view spaces are actually not commands, but instead cause the cells on either side to become adjacent < 1215466927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise semicolons cause the commands either side to become adjacent over a longer distance < 1215466928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "From:" header, that is < 1215466932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in from < 1215466942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might it make sense for # to screw around with adjacencies too, rather than being a command? < 1215466943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, guess I just put em in a pastebin then < 1215466944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1215466958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :em? you gone nomic too!? < 1215466964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1215466967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread that < 1215466978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err < 1215466980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, example < 1215466985 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I object to that insult. < 1215466993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! So much for #ESOTERICAN CONSENT < 1215466997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what insult? < 1215467005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gimme an address < 1215467012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for email? sure < 1215467021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see /msg < 1215467026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers < 1215467062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one new mail "Get a bigger one with v1agra" < 1215467065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I guess? < 1215467066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1215467086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will check later < 1215467149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sent it now < 1215467244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215467262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didja get it? < 1215467295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215467297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading it atm < 1215467299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1215467302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to bed < 1215467315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forward it to Chris if there's something new there < 1215467318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: example: 2k#12 is equivalent to 2k;;2 or to zzz22 (not counting ticks) < 1215467330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go ahead and send snippets of this discussion too < 1215467334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm gone now -> < 1215467362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1215467402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem with that is with nested k, for instance (something I need to add to < 1215467402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology as soon as I can figure out what should happen): " < 1215467404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never did < 1215467407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215467419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I've been thinking about other languages to add as FFIs to INTERCAL < 1215467423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can do Brainfuck < 1215467424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is implementation defined < 1215467427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly also Unlambda < 1215467433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although COME FROM in Unlambda will be fun < 1215467439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, brainfuck would be trivial < 1215467448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not quite, but reasonably easy < 1215467454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh why? < 1215467459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of loops? < 1215467466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because of computed COME FROM, etc < 1215467480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well how would that be done at all? < 1215467485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd practically need to invent a new temporary tape for doing the computations in < 1215467496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (++++++C) would be equivalent to M6C in Funge-98+IFFI < 1215467502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parens are like markers < 1215467507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215467511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the computed come from is done on a new temporary tape < 1215467516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very non-brainfucky < 1215467517 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make . turn into 'execute FFI command' in the (tape) < 1215467522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I know < 1215467525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the issue < 1215467531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gotos are non-brainfucky as it is < 1215467536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, gotos with line labels < 1215467539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1215467539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so so are come froms < 1215467565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a CLC/C-INTERCAL FFI? < 1215467570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be pretty interesting < 1215467574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using libperl I guess < 1215467575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, also difficult < 1215467583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the way CLC-INTERCAL works < 1215467586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1215467592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically it would have to be done by sending commands over a socket or something < 1215467601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is that? < 1215467617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the way CLC-INTERCAL works is so complicated that even I have trouble describing it < 1215467626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably only me and Claudio have much of an idea of how it works < 1215467629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :him more than me < 1215467657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you couldn't just call functions in CLC-INTERCAL to get things to happen < 1215467665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the control structures are so convoluted < 1215467668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they act non-locally < 1215467669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1215467673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even change the syntax at runtime < 1215467682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty much like C-INTERCAL then? < 1215467684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, programs aren't even compiled until after they start running < 1215467688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: much more so than in C-INTERCAL < 1215467701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL allows you to give meaning to syntax that didn't have a meaning beforehand, within limits < 1215467701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean they are compiled in CLC? < 1215467707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just interpreted? < 1215467709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CLC-INTERCAL you can even change the grammar at runtime < 1215467713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it JITTING?! < 1215467715 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215467718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: worse than jitting < 1215467723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than jitting? < 1215467728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is worse than that in perl < 1215467744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually runs the program until it errors, then goes back and compiles the bit of the program that didn't work under the current compiler < 1215467746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think you should abandon C-INTERCAL, 'cause CLC totally has you beat < 1215467751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler can be changed from within the program < 1215467757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh my < 1215467760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL have different goals completely < 1215467776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, CLC-INTERCAL has C-INTERCAL beat on sheer esotericness, and probably it will always be that way < 1215467793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C-INTERCAL is faster, and compiles to something relatively sane < 1215467799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need posix_fadvise(), that will beat CLC on "get tusho madiness" < 1215467806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1215467845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe even make C-INTERCAL a sleek and beautiful beast (could that be done?) < 1215467854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it is compared to CLC-INTERCAL < 1215467861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it was always meant to be < 1215467862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1215467871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler's a mess, but the result is not too bad < 1215467879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when neither -e nor -m is used < 1215467885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it doesn't do any stupid stack tricks < 1215467886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, making the compiler nicer would be cool < 1215467888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just becomes a C program < 1215467896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make some patches to fix valgrind issues if I have time < 1215467901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, the problem is trying to track all the allocations and deallocations < 1215467907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets confusing very quickly < 1215467930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least some should be pretty clear like "this is never visible outside this function, so add a free() at the end"? < 1215467957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but those aren't responsible for memory leaks < 1215467967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that the entire program is compiled into a massive binary tree in memory < 1215467970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course is way harder to fix existing code than when you are writing it < 1215467979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the issue is freeing bits of it in the right order < 1215467986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I always debug each fingerprint in valgrind before even committing it < 1215467992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each new feature < 1215468029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: yes, but those aren't responsible for memory leaks <-- yes they are to a certain extent < 1215468081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, not in this code < 1215468090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all caught by splint < 1215468096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I've run over the whole code < 1215468108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even tried to annotate, but I gave up on some bits because the referencing was so weird < 1215468114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215468123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'd used splint on parts < 1215468133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it fails horribly on even simple C99 stuff like: < 1215468142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (int i = 0; i < foo; i++) < 1215468147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is putting int there < 1215468205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, C-INTERCAL isn't C99, so I didn't have that problem < 1215468212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it originally wasn't even C89 < 1215468213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but older < 1215468238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1215468254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from mem leaks, are there any other valgrind errors? < 1215468334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I don't think so < 1215468366 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215468381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :) < 1215468399 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242399400.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1215468402 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1215468427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at least all the commonly-used codepaths are fine < 1215468432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1215468442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then, though, someone comes up with some strange way of using ick that malfunctions < 1215468455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I pondered writing a test suite for cfunge using check but gave up on that idea < 1215468458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just try every single possible combination of command-line args to see which ones work < 1215468478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tried running ick on some CLC-INTERCAL code and it generated invalid C as output iirc < 1215468488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's strange, it shouldn't do that < 1215468495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find the code < 1215468506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, cfunge goes into an infinite loop if you enter input with no numeric characters when asked to input a number < 1215468519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it will "try again" then basically < 1215468526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you enter a valid number < 1215468533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you mean, it is intentional < 1215468548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I assumed it was just broken < 1215468556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should print "Redo from start" like in BASIC < 1215468564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://intercal.freeshell.org/examples/hello.i <-- that, after fixing PLEASE ratio to conform to what ick wants < 1215468566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it gets an EOF in the input when inputting a number? < 1215468570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a character, for that matter? < 1215468576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1215468578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1215468599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Ctrl-D seems to be ignored < 1215468600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I tested on that program too... < 1215468606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: redirect from /dev/null < 1215468614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you reproduce the problem at your end? < 1215468626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with cfunge or ick? < 1215468629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1215468630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with ick < 1215468633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was last release of ick < 1215468635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not darcs < 1215468648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what did you modify in it? < 1215468667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just the PLEASE ratio to remove some please on the line that said "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (PRETTY PLEASE)" < 1215468673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ick didn't like it < 1215468677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, ok < 1215468686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to C-INTERCAL, the whole of the rest of the program is one statement < 1215468696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry < 1215468700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of the ERROR lines is one statement < 1215468703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1215468718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait not invalid c < 1215468720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linker error < 1215468732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the whole "please please please pretty please" line < 1215468737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ick hello.i < 1215468737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/ccBpzVat.o: In function `ick_og6669c0': < 1215468737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c:(.text+0x1ca): undefined reference to `ick_or0' < 1215468739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1215468746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that supposed to happen? < 1215468756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, other programs work < 1215468757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1215468761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pit of ick < 1215468769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have utterly confused the type-checker < 1215468773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what that error always means < 1215468781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that something wasn't given a data-type at all < 1215468783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that's a bug then I guess? < 1215468787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely < 1215468794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BUG A BUG! < 1215468795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look into what it is that failed to type-check < 1215468800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ON THE WAY TO ANYWHERE < 1215468811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CORRECT COMPILER AND RESUBNIT < 1215468813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1215468826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better: < 1215468846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ON THE WAY TO CALIFORNIA < 1215468848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1215468849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I think I get what's happening < 1215468855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if I can create a minimal test case < 1215468858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to send off to me... < 1215468866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got that yet in your program? in the way to ? < 1215468875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's ON THE WAY TO THE NEW WORLD < 1215468876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be quite fun for something I guess < 1215468879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on something < 1215468885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which means? < 1215468886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ON THE WAY TO THE CLOSET < 1215468888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is mine < 1215468893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215468899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember what error message they correspond to < 1215468904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the last line < 1215468913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the bit at the start, which is normally related to the error somehow < 1215468918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1215468922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one's that aren't aren't that hard to memorise < 1215468923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215468925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last line is < 1215468927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CORRECT SOURCE AND RESUBNIT < 1215468928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1215468975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE DO .1/.?2 SYNTAX:ERROR < 1215468979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so < 1215468984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's my minimal test case < 1215468987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reproduce the error < 1215468998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that what is that supposed to do? < 1215469004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, it's an error < 1215469012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, it gets halfway through compiling the code < 1215469014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not a linker error right? < 1215469020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, let me explain < 1215469025 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215469031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .1/.?2 is a symlink < 1215469042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215469043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1215469050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlink inside a language? < 1215469050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's far too many cool things to do. < 1215469054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that from now on, .1 should mean the value of .?2 < 1215469059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, very true < 1215469060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, symlinked variables < 1215469065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, life is too short < 1215469069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have great fun with that < 1215469070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh god < 1215469079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want to work on Def-BF? < 1215469081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My kernel? < 1215469083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning D? < 1215469087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well in C you could do aliased pointers < 1215469087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, this means I have to generate code to calculate the XOR of .2 if needed < 1215469090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helping Gregor with Plof? < 1215469093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because something might be symlinked to it < 1215469101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, then there's a syntax drror < 1215469103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, call fork(), problem solved < 1215469104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/drror/error/ < 1215469108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that wasn't a real command after all < 1215469119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the typecaster is never run on it < 1215469129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1215469146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that means? < 1215469148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, it generates code that is never used in the program, without typecasting it first < 1215469155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1215469159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard to fix? < 1215469161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it tries to do a (undefined memory)-bit XOR rather than a 16-bit or 32-bit XOR < 1215469171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a linker error < 1215469177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that sort of XOR isn't in the runtime library < 1215469188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for hard to fix, probably not < 1215469197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215469199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of a reasonably easy way to fix it that generates a lot of dead code < 1215469207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently wondering if there's a better way < 1215469223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that function is never actually called < 1215469228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the linker error doesn't matter < 1215469231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the linker doesn't know that < 1215469242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C was like INTERCAL, then the error would be just fine as long as it was never encountered < 1215469259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about "generate the unneeded code in case we get a linker error" XD < 1215469269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use llvm < 1215469272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does runtime linking < 1215469281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those are both insane methods < 1215469291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the unneeded code is generated at present < 1215469293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes very intercallish though XD < 1215469297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the linker error is in that code < 1215469305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's an error because it can't find a function it'll never use < 1215469349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does intercal have floating or fixed point at all? < 1215469355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you do sin() and such in it? < 1215469375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't have any sort of maths by default, but libraries are available both for integer arithmetic and for floating-point arithmetic < 1215469384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both work by bitwise manipulation < 1215469393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for sin() and such high level stuff? < 1215469402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's in the floating-point library too < 1215469408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh god < 1215469410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was quite astounded that someone was actually bothered to write that < 1215469413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't standard < 1215469420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's one of the examples bundled with the compiler < 1215469421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asin()? cos() acos() too? < 1215469430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find the list of what's supported < 1215469456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge supports trigonometry by 3 different fingerprints, FIXP, FPDP, FPSP < 1215469475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, tusho's doing one of their big reorganisations at the moment, so it isn't online < 1215469475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fixed point, various math functions, double floating point, single floating point) < 1215469479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find it on my own compute < 1215469484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but those fingerprints are written in C < 1215469489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is the repo down? < 1215469490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the floating-point library is written in INTERCAL < 1215469493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes they are < 1215469496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, temporarily < 1215469499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they just use libmath < 1215469506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1215469508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libm < 1215469524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I wouldn't know how to write it in C even < 1215469528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin and such I mean < 1215469551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use lookup tables or a calculator, I couldn't calculate it by hand < 1215469575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if I had sin() I could calculate cos() and tan() < 1215469587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly arcsin() and such too < 1215469600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ - floor (both integer and real result) * / mod cast-from-integer sqrt ln exp pow sin cos tan random < 1215469604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's supported < 1215469611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215469623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you optimize those into C? < 1215469628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1215469630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you said you did for some parts in syslib < 1215469636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy enough to write an expansion library that does < 1215469653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, what I have is a version of syslib in both C and in INTERCAL, and you can link either < 1215469659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215469665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does one need ec then? < 1215469689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need -e to link syslibc < 1215469698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the INTERCAL version needs no command-line options < 1215469700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so can't be done with threads then < 1215469705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's it < 1215469724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm could you optimize syslib to work even with threads? < 1215469743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, probably, but it would be quite a bit of effort < 1215469766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is the C one much faster? < 1215469773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure < 1215469779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL one's not all that slow, actually < 1215469784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL is pretty optimised for an INTERCAL compiler < 1215469787 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215469798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try something < 1215469803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215469844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to time primes.i with various different command-line arguments < 1215469881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1215469894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a pure C version just to compare < 1215469897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be very nice < 1215469918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using sieve of Atkins maybe?) < 1215469936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pure C version using the same algorithm as the INTERCAL would be an interesting comparison < 1215469936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Atkin < 1215469955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, what algorithm does intercal use then? < 1215469969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple try-all-odd-factors, I think < 1215469982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, up to the square root I assume? < 1215470016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, actually probably to half the number as square roots are slow to calculate < 1215470019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't write primes.i < 1215470023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a well-known benchmark < 1215470026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215470044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you could calculate square root once and then be done with it < 1215470053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store it in a variable or whatever < 1215470074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: primes.i finds all primes from 0 to 65535 < 1215470083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, obviously you'd do it like that < 1215470108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215470219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1065027 < 1215470245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-beEO is slightly faster than -bfO, but not by a significant amount < 1215470269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you think? < 1215470272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215470283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that instruction that generates a shell script to output it? < 1215470284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1215470290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's -F < 1215470293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how quick that was < 1215470296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1215470321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is -f? and what is -e? < 1215470330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f is flow optimisation < 1215470343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -e is the external-calls system, which is needed to link in syslibc < 1215470349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bfeEO <-- what about that < 1215470354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-E disables the auto-linking of the INTERCAL version of the system library < 1215470359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1215470369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or doesn't that work? < 1215470377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -f and -e contradict < 1215470383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? how so? < 1215470392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't flow-optimise the external-calls system ATM < 1215470396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1215470407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repo will be up soon < 1215470411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a pure C version then? < 1215470416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to write one... < 1215470471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1215470772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ge/gro.elpmaxe//:ptth"37*( ... v"tset/pf/0/ten.elpmaxe.oof//:rehpog"a7+2*( ... v>"lmth.krow/moc.elpmaxe.www//:ptth"84*( ... S v>... ) ... ) ... ) > < 1215470773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215470774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1215470787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ge/gro.elpmaxe//:ptth"37*( ... v < 1215470787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tset/pf/0/ten.elpmaxe.oof//:rehpog"a7+2*( ... v> < 1215470787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lmth.krow/moc.elpmaxe.www//:ptth"84*( ... S v> < 1215470787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ) ... ) ... ) > < 1215470789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I ,eam < 1215470794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant* < 1215470794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just paste some Funge-108 into the channel? < 1215470798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, why? < 1215470801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1215470804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for URI < 1215470809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it look nice or not < 1215470819 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe you should make it be reversed < 1215470825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh? < 1215470835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so that you could write it the right way around < 1215470837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the original example was: < 1215470838 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I admit it looks pretty as is < 1215470843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :".G.E"4( ... "TSET"4( ... "KROW"4( ... S ... ) ... ) ... ) < 1215470857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just assigned some uris and translated the funge98 example < 1215470868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that would fit within the width of the pdf file < 1215470873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but, try reversing those strings < 1215470876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll look a lot nicer < 1215470877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1215470892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "ge/gro.elpmaxe//:ptth" | rev < 1215470892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.org/eg < 1215470904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly < 1215470910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, they should be gnirts, not strings < 1215470914 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"http://example.org/eg"37* < 1215470920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as befunge does 0"gnirts" elsewhere < 1215470927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fine < 1215470928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, like for i and o instructions < 1215470937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I just try to keep it consistent < 1215470943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, personally I like writing strings with left-to-right execution < 1215470947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they look good in the source < 1215470951 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ditto... < 1215470952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/left-to-right/right-to-left/ < 1215470956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1215471001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hsi-egnufeB yrev t'nera uoy sey ,ohsut < 1215471002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1215471019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that was to you btw < 1215471031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215471049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any emacs command to reverse a selection? < 1215471053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be very useful < 1215471254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also iirc there is some fingerprint that can read strings from funge-space < 1215471261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I implement that yet < 1215471274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know < 1215471276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one I most likely will implement however < 1215471301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to upload a new pdf and lyx file btw < 1215471408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploading < 1215471430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108.pdf and http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108-lyx.tar.bz2 < 1215471433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1215471438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contains last updates as of today < 1215471503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 55 pages now < 1215471519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we can make it as long as the C standard < 1215471521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1215471596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tusho has just moved the C-INTERCAL repo to http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/ < 1215471606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but with consent from you! < 1215471610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do I make darcs switch < 1215471611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, stop twisting words < 1215471611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215471617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes, but I'd still like a redirect < 1215471623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: specify the new URL the next time you pull < 1215471630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, try that now, I made a change < 1215471630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd like to not innundate eso-std.org with cruft before it even gets started < 1215471636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it compatible with your fixes to cfunge < 1215471656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, it'll never get started if nobody can link to it < 1215471661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any way to auto say y when you pull? < 1215471668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh shush :) < 1215471668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, a return < 1215471677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean for all changes < 1215471689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says y to all changes < 1215471700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there's a command-line arg for that too if you find it easier < 1215471701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no that says: < 1215471704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Invalid response, try again!" < 1215471718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs pull -a http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/ < 1215471729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1215471740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you might wanna tell a.l.intercal about the new url < 1215471754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not until its stable for a while, until then, you use redirects < 1215471757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cftoec.sh is no longer chmod +x? < 1215471762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has redirects in that are years old in case people link to them < 1215471772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: darcs is really bad at versioning permissions, it's a major problem < 1215471775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be +x < 1215471782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but darcs tends to forget the permissions on things < 1215471788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1215471824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, will c-intercal modify cfunge source in place or copy it? < 1215471845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it compiles it into a .cio file < 1215471847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my cfunge trunk contains lots of cruft like test files and such < 1215471850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a modified version with some metadata < 1215471859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .cio and .c files with the same name are overwritten < 1215471863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cfunge < 1215471866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it copies it < 1215471883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want to do it from a clean source-tree, though < 1215471891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just compiles all .c files it finds in the source tree < 1215471898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of what they're called < 1215471931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fun trick with cfunge that I use myself to test speed: < 1215471946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-combine < 1215471964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I don't use that when compiling the library < 1215471967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes certain inter-file optimization possible < 1215471976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I don't really care about speed for fffungi < 1215471978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it helps me detect certain bugs < 1215471984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed COME FROM is inherently slow < 1215471995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like extern of variable in source file (forbidden in my coding standard) < 1215472006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it on crossfire however to detect conflicting such extern < 1215472025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what about having non-computed ones as well? < 1215472052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I could provide a place to hook in and monitor changes to funge-space so you could just update the info as you need it < 1215472069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're overthinking this, really < 1215472074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215472075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, -e treats all COME FROMs as computed < 1215472079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I always tend to do that < 1215472090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ones in the INTERCAL program < 1215472095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to dynamic line labels and such < 1215472127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where was the example to try then? < 1215472128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1215472131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cfunge < 1215472144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pit/tests/iffit1.i and pit/tests/iffit2.b98 < 1215472147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you compile them together < 1215472158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ick -bea iffit1.i iffit2.b98 < 1215472165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/ick -eba pit/tests/iffit2.b98 pit/tests/iffit1.i ? < 1215472167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is -a? < 1215472172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: enables CREATE support < 1215472176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the very last test fails < 1215472181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1215472183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the thing it's testing isn't supported < 1215472183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is CREATE? < 1215472192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gives meaning to syntax that previously didn't have any < 1215472199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a DO T .1 in the INTERCAL file < 1215472202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means nothing to start with < 1215472208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/ick -eba pit/tests/iffit1.i pit/tests/iffit2.b98 < 1215472208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICL127I SAYING 'ABRACADABRA' WITHOUT A MAGIC WAND WON'T DO YOU ANY GOOD < 1215472210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Befunge file gives it a definition < 1215472212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ON THE WAY TO THE CLOSET < 1215472214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1215472217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's an installation problem < 1215472231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is wrong? < 1215472245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you reinstall C-INTERCAL after generating the library? < 1215472250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it won't have been installed < 1215472253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no I forgot that < 1215472258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install < 1215472260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still same error < 1215472265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1215472271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an option to debug that < 1215472274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me remember which one it is < 1215472284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /home/arvid/local/ick/lib/ < 1215472285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libick.a libickec.a libickmt.a libyuk.a < 1215472286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add -u to the command line < 1215472288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there < 1215472296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, why not? < 1215472311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no idea < 1215472313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1215472315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that command < 1215472322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it in lib in the C-INTERCAL development sources? < 1215472329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/IusI1X29.html < 1215472344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls lib/ < 1215472344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COPYING.txt compunex.c coopt.sh ick-wrap.c libick.a libick_ecto_b98.a libickec.a libickmt.a libyuk.a pickwrap.c syslibc.c < 1215472353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libick_ecto_b98.a I guess? < 1215472357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that one's fine < 1215472364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing the other half, ecto_b98.c < 1215472365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so make install is broken? < 1215472374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try make lib/ecto_b98.c < 1215472383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have screwed up make's dependencies somewhere < 1215472386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make lib/ecto_b98.c < 1215472386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `lib/ecto_b98.c'. Stop. < 1215472392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215472398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, reconfigure < 1215472398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looks like you fail at detecting when to re-generate makefile < 1215472405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something automake would do for you < 1215472408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't regenerate the makefile except on request < 1215472413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this would be handled automatically in automake < 1215472417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was normal < 1215472434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :config.status will regenerate it < 1215472437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm used to smart build systems < 1215472447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmake is semi smart in that aspect < 1215472456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working now? < 1215472463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting < 1215472466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is recompiling it all now < 1215472478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I must have changed something relevant < 1215472487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh -c "[ `whoami` = root ] && : -q" < 1215472487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: [install] Error 1 (ignored) < 1215472488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1215472493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's fine < 1215472508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have put || : at the end of that, though < 1215472513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215472516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's meant to be able to fail < 1215472517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now where is the outfile < 1215472519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it surpresses the error < 1215472521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it < 1215472524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should be iffit1 < 1215472526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no extension < 1215472534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be in the same dir as the sources < 1215472534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ bin/ick -eba pit/tests/iffit1.i pit/tests/iffit2.b98 < 1215472538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1215472539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pit/tests/iffit1 < 1215472573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it just chops off the extension of the INTERCAL source to give the output file < 1215472579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some cool things to write would be some thing to make use of fingerprints to in befunge to make it possible to do stuff you can't normally in intercal easily < 1215472583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as examples < 1215472589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1215472598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that would be a good example for the C things too < 1215472603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work, anyway? < 1215472608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/zIUcbS97.html < 1215472611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is correct then yes < 1215472615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it with +wimpmode if you find Roman numerals hard to read < 1215472618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just count up to 18 < 1215472624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==4763== still reachable: 3,208,940 bytes in 287 blocks. < 1215472625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215472635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't deallocating the cfunge stuff on exit < 1215472639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't, really < 1215472643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without messing with atexit < 1215472643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be cfunge I guess in RELEASE mode < 1215472646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1215472648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1215472662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked, it's all cfunge internals, and all still-reachable < 1215472663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you study cfunge you will notice it only does it in DEBUG < 1215472666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it's the hash thing < 1215472679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty hard to figure out when the deallocation's needed < 1215472685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBUG deallocate EVERYTHING at exit < 1215472694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RELEASE: assume OS can do it's job < 1215472708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is needed in atexit() if ever < 1215472717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume OS will do it's job unless DEBUG is set < 1215472735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because the only things I deallocate in atexit() are such that need to persist to the very last moment < 1215472739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff's all being used until the last moment < 1215472744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, all the Befunge stuff < 1215472757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything else is freed by cfunge < 1215472764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just funge-space and one IP that you're seeing there < 1215472773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes cfunge is valgrind clean apart from stuff that aren't really leaks < 1215472777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that is expected output < 1215472792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pit/tests/iffit.doc for the expected output with an explanation, by the way < 1215472812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume this is ASCII text? < 1215472817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1215472823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good no word:) < 1215472829 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, it's an MS Word 2007 document." < 1215472832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the C-INTERCAL examples are documented like that < 1215472832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OOXML!" < 1215472835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that would be .docx < 1215472838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that would be .docx < 1215472843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1215472846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops ais523 was first < 1215472846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not DOS-compatible! < 1215472848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the C-INTERCAL extension predates Word becoming popular < 1215472855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd have to compromise and use .doc. < 1215472872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: .dcx with DJGPP's mangling scheme, I think, it favours removing vowels < 1215472874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well they haven't done that < 1215472889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is pretty wtf ;P < 1215472926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Printed at the start of the INTERCAL program; tests Y. < 1215472930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does that mean? < 1215472938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I is 1 in Roman Numerals < 1215472948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Y < 1215472948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1215472954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Y is "yield", which the Funge program runs once to start the INTERCAL program running < 1215472968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the Funge program starts first, does its initialisation, then runs Y and the INTERCAL program starts < 1215472979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use anything else in the fingerprint until you use Y < 1215472983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for A < 1215472985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I see, does C program also run first when doing that FFI? < 1215472995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C programs can define blocks which run first < 1215472998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where are the fingerprint docs btw? < 1215473000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once they end, the program starts < 1215473006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're in the texinfo source < 1215473010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doc/ick.txi < 1215473019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a makefile there that'll compile it to a lot of formats you know < 1215473030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pure text would be a good one atm < 1215473033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doc/ick.txt < 1215473038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll have to search for it < 1215473044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's one long file that documents everything < 1215473054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text is pregenerated for people who don't have texinfo < 1215473058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux ~/src/c-intercal/doc $ make < 1215473059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `x.mm', needed by `x.txt'. Stop. < 1215473062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it that supposed to happen? < 1215473064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215473065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make allnew < 1215473071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the new documentation < 1215473079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the odd error then? < 1215473086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I've often wondered why the makefile deliberately chokes when not given a target < 1215473098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's done that since before I started maintaining C-INTERCAL < 1215473105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assumed there was a good reason... < 1215473110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, may be worth fixing it then < 1215473110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there isn't, though < 1215473117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly deliberate < 1215473126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a bit of a strange way to do it < 1215473128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well give it something like: < 1215473129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all: < 1215473138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo "Please use one of these targets:" < 1215473141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like tyhat < 1215473149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have an all target that builds everything too, I think < 1215473150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1215473156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1215473163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think normally people don't want everything, though < 1215473164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all is the default target isn't it? < 1215473172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the first target is the default < 1215473176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what it's called < 1215473182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well right, but make default target explain what is going on < 1215473189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I should do < 1215473203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This section will not make much sense to a non-Funge programmer; < 1215473203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, if you are not used to Funge, you probably want to skip it." < 1215473212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well same for a non-intercal programmer ;/ < 1215473212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's the one < 1215473226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the whole manual's about INTERCAL < 1215473231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes right < 1215473236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1215473242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, I think it's suitable for people who don't know INTERCAL as long as you read it in order < 1215473245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a learning aid < 1215473259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-intercal should require clc-intercal < 1215473259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215473261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to explain everything reasonably carefully, as a reference < 1215473265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: why? < 1215473270 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for crazity < 1215473299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, has anyone coded an intercal interpreter or compiler in intercal? < 1215473299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: C-INTERCAL isn't crazy, it's the sane end of the INTERCAL implementation market < 1215473302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be crazy < 1215473310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think so, INTERCAL's a pain to parse < 1215473314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even kind-of tricky to lex < 1215473320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so a C->INTERCAL compiler < 1215473322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which is still pretty crazy... < 1215473326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile C-INTERCAL using that? < 1215473328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1215473333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that would probably be easier < 1215473336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is worrying < 1215473339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1215473354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a limit of number of lines in INTERCAL? < 1215473359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: available memory < 1215473364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a limit to line length, though < 1215473365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is turing complete then < 1215473367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and number of line numbers < 1215473373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all lines need be numbered < 1215473379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's turing complete quite easily < 1215473381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1215473388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think it's even turing complete without variables < 1215473399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flow structure is rich enough < 1215473429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215473445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to prove that once but got confused < 1215473469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm going home now < 1215473476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm glad it works < 1215473491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I'd like to give INTERCAL lessons some time, but I'm not sure who'd be interested < 1215473497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interesting idea < 1215473501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bye for now, anyway < 1215473505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1215473509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be! < 1215473509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215473513 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real-life ones, I assume. < 1215473520 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215473521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I couldn't go to UK < 1215473525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to sleep as well < 1215473527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could, very easily < 1215473528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch: < 1215473529 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boom! < 1215473531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went to the UK < 1215473537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1215473541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were in UK... < 1215473542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't have to do much < 1215473547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the thought that counts < 1215473620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1215473631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm.... < 1215473637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL and Befunge < 1215473640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dynamic duo! < 1215473642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1215473715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215473765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215473790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./src/fingerprints/IFFI/IFFI.c:38: warning: no previous prototype for 'ick_SaveIPPosDelta' < 1215473790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./src/fingerprints/IFFI/IFFI.c:46: warning: no previous prototype for 'ick_RestoreIPPosDelta' < 1215473790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./src/fingerprints/IFFI/IFFI.c:54: warning: no previous prototype for 'ick_InterpreterRun' < 1215473790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./src/fingerprints/IFFI/IFFI.c:79: warning: no previous prototype for 'ick_iffi_InterpreterOneIteration' < 1215473791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215473849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to tell ais tomorrow < 1215473946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but very few warnings :D < 1215473959 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yayyyyyyyyyyy. < 1215473981 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215474003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, just those from IFFI < 1215474263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, < 1215474268 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, < 1215474274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a permalink to the darcs repo for ick < 1215474282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that will work for the next few years < 1215474283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1215474291 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And I want a pony. < 1215474299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/ should be stable. < 1215474302 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the ending slash.) < 1215474307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? good < 1215474329 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But, you know. There's never any guarantees < 1215474337 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows if ESO will exist in the next few years? < 1215474358 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also doubt people will be desperately trying to follow links to the repository in a few years, AnMaster. < 1215474364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially not so much that they're disappointed before you can fix it. < 1215474383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well a few months then < 1215474391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect this will be stable now :) < 1215474397 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'll probably be. < 1215474399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a reasonable URL. < 1215474407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, /msg me if you change it < 1215474422 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll just tell you in here... < 1215474431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, I was going to change it and NOT TELL ANYONE about the new URL.) < 1215474433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, msg is better in case I'm away < 1215474434 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Great idea right?) < 1215474453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, or if I'm not here just use memoserv < 1215474461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I'm here and marked away just use /msg < 1215474477 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just highlight you. < 1215474478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster. < 1215474597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no thanks I don't have a long scrollback < 1215474619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm not here (I'm going to Norway the day after tomorrow), just use memoserv < 1215474622 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnM*ster: if I ever highlight you again, it'll mean I moved it! < 1215474769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, my client won't be online when I'm in Norway < 1215474772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus memoserv < 1215474782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnM*ster: Grep logs!