00:00:05 err, four + a special one 00:00:12 BUNK - website won't load at all! 00:00:23 FAIL - www.www doesn't work 00:00:31 GOOD - www. redirects to www.www 00:00:41 BEST - no prefix and www. redirects to www.www 00:01:24 EVEN BESTERER - no prefix and www. redirect to www.www.extra-www.org, www.www works as expected 00:01:25 :P 00:02:00 How does no-www.org's checker work? Just looks at the HTTP headers, right, doesn't expect HTML-redirect or whatnot? 00:02:32 GregorR: headers, right 00:02:41 GregorR: oh, wait 00:02:43 instead of EVEN BESTERER 00:02:53 HARDCORE - www. and no prefix don't work at all, but www.www. does 00:03:03 (no-www's Class C) 00:03:21 i mean who wants to show an information page GregorR? 00:03:23 when you can just fail 00:04:16 I should make www. and no-prefix fail for www.www.extra-www.org . 00:04:22 Or maybe not :P 00:04:29 GregorR: No 00:04:32 no-www doesn't 00:04:35 I know 00:04:37 because how will people know when they find it 00:04:37 :P 00:04:42 But it would be HARD-EFFING-CORE!!! 00:04:42 :P 00:04:48 yes it would 00:05:01 GregorR: will codu.org adopt extra-www standards? 00:05:12 http://www.www.codu.org/ 00:05:16 not much of a Great Success ! 00:05:21 :P 00:05:31 It could POSSIBLY be that extra-www is a joke X-P 00:05:38 GregorR: Yes but adopting jokes is fun 00:05:56 Testing extra-www.org for HTTP access 00:05:56 Domain does not qualify. Error code: NA 00:06:18 GregorR: Wait, are you writing the qualifiers? 00:06:21 awesome 00:06:25 use my levels 00:06:27 they're pwnsome 00:06:38 That was the result from no-www.org on extra-www.org . 00:06:43 oh 00:06:43 ha 00:06:48 GregorR: 24 hour lag stuffs 00:06:49 also 00:06:52 you buy so many domains 00:06:55 buy tusho.org next time 00:06:58 i'll luff you forever 00:07:11 Is it not already owned by softcore porn? 00:07:32 GregorR: Shut up. 00:12:59 -!- Corun has joined. 00:15:27 * GregorR forgot how awful PHP is :P 00:18:44 GregorR: will codu.org adopt extra-www standards? 00:18:44 http://www.www.codu.org/ 00:18:46 GregorR: Ooh... a D web library... 00:18:48 extra www? 00:18:49 Now that sounds appealing. 00:18:55 AnMaster: http://www.www.extra-www.org/ 00:19:02 GregorR: Does it now? 00:19:03 *not 00:19:07 AnMaster: the answer is like 5 lines back 00:19:22 there is no-www I know 00:19:25 extra-www is new 00:19:36 AnMaster: GregorR just made it 00:19:38 it's a parody of no-www 00:19:48 aha 00:19:54 GregorR: y/n 00:20:09 "envbot.org previously reported as Class B. " 00:20:11 :P 00:20:22 tusho: No, it is not (yet?) extra-www compliant. 00:20:31 GregorR: uhh 00:20:32 www.envbot.org redirects to non-www version 00:20:32 what 00:20:35 I didn't repeat that, GregorR 00:20:39 if just the damn dns wasn't broken 00:20:43 GregorR: I was saying how a D web library sounded 00:21:00 Now that sounds appealing. GregorR: Does it now // /me didn't get this :P 00:21:01 because you complained about php 00:21:04 Idonno, I haven't really looked into one. 00:21:12 GregorR: Well I didn't mean using an existing one 00:21:13 Psht. 00:21:16 That would be LAYM 00:21:32 Unless I wrote it - which I'm now toying with... 00:22:00 :P 00:24:04 GregorR: Hmm. A D templating language just seems WRONG 00:24:16 Test <%= new Foo() %> 00:25:34 xD 00:26:03 -!- olsner has quit. 00:27:19 GregorR: wtf is the tango logo 00:27:45 it exists? 00:27:58 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/chrome/theme/images/Logo5.png 00:28:10 tusho, cut off? 00:28:22 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/chrome/theme/images/Head-NewTango3.png 00:28:22 tusho: How should I know? :P 00:28:31 GregorR: You do tango stuff! 00:28:39 Not the art. 00:28:44 Still. 00:28:44 :P 00:29:06 GregorR, why do you do D? 00:29:13 AnMaster: he likes it? 00:29:19 poor him 00:29:43 AnMaster: You don't like it? 00:29:46 AnMaster: why? 00:29:52 what's wrong with D apart from you not liking it? 00:29:54 GregorR, I know it is a hell to get working 00:30:01 AnMaster: no it's not 00:30:01 This is an unfortunate truth. 00:30:03 well 00:30:04 Heh 00:30:04 wasn't for me 00:30:05 I couldn't get tango to compile on gdc even 00:30:14 i mean, it was a little of fuss the first time 00:30:16 but not really that much 00:30:26 GregorR, so I gave up 00:30:34 I expect it to work out of box with gdc 00:30:41 that day I may consider D 00:30:50 because at syntax level D looks really nice 00:30:52 GregorR: say, what's the inline delegate syntax? 00:30:54 for passing to a function 00:31:02 for non performance critical applications 00:31:04 { /* place content here */ } 00:31:15 AnMaster: I take it cfunge is an enterprise performance critical application? 00:31:20 GregorR: so wut: 00:31:21 func({ ... }) 00:31:22 ? 00:31:25 Yeah 00:31:34 GregorR: maybe a plof web lib would be better 00:31:34 tusho, that is beside the point 00:31:36 mm? 00:31:47 (o, and how does it take arguments like that) 00:32:17 anyway I would just continue to use C idioms I bet :P 00:32:22 * AnMaster is used to that 00:33:13 GregorR: well? 00:33:35 Sure, why not. 00:33:49 You could have a whole HTML-compatible syntax built into Plof, so you just need to toss a HTML file through the interpreter. 00:34:20 GregorR: That would be the Plof Templating Language, I guess. But it'd be nice to write the backend in Real User Plof. :P 00:34:25 Now how do I take arguments to a delegate...? 00:35:38 GregorR: wal? :( 00:35:42 (int foo, int bar) { ... } 00:35:57 a 00:35:58 i c 00:36:40 gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 20070214 ( (gdc 0.24, using dmd 1.020)) (Gentoo 4.1.2 p1.0.2) 00:36:42 GregorR, ^ 00:36:44 GregorR: what does plof look like these days 00:36:48 can't compile any tango version 00:37:01 tusho: Like that, sort of ;) 00:37:06 AnMaster: E_WORKSFORME 00:37:11 GregorR: wot 00:37:14 GregorR, another thing: tango can't install into a prefix it seems 00:37:15 ? 00:37:30 which means I can't use it on systems with phobos where I don't have root 00:37:33 AnMaster: Tango needs to install over the Phobos GDC comes with: it is a replacement core library. 00:37:35 so totally useless 00:37:42 GregorR, I can't depend on that 00:37:56 And yet you CAN depend on having a D installation in the first place? That's weird. 00:38:00 I love AnMaster's enterprisey concerns 00:38:05 GregorR, the day it can be installed into a prefix, or is default maybe 00:38:09 "But ... something might break! Conceivably! So it's best I just don't use D." 00:38:12 GregorR, well let me tell you why 00:38:19 GregorR, 1) tango is hard to install correctly 00:38:23 no it's not 00:38:26 2) gdc is also hard, but less hard 00:38:32 no it's not 00:38:33 Tango can be installed to a prefix by nature of the fact that GDC can be installed to a prefix, btw. 00:38:44 GregorR, well not a different prefix 00:38:58 AnMaster: dude, tango more than just a libc replacement 00:39:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:39:06 it literally rips out everything that d does 00:39:08 and adds its new stuff 00:39:13 it HAS to replace the other stuff 00:39:22 it's not an opt-in thing, because of its very nature 00:39:25 GregorR, I don't know if this depends on me using x86_64 or not but it doesn't work for me (TM) 00:39:45 also it prevents using programs that wants phobos instead of tango 00:39:49 x86_64 has been historically more difficult than x86, but when I switched to x86_64 I didn't notice any difference. 00:39:57 That's what tangobos is for. 00:40:02 GregorR, why can't D just decide on *ONE* standard library 00:40:05 like C does 00:40:06 AnMaster: they have 00:40:08 nobody uses phobos 00:40:16 like C does // Hahaha 00:40:19 tusho, why is it default then? 00:40:22 GregorR: yeah I lol'd at that 00:40:24 GregorR, it is defined in specs 00:40:30 AnMaster: because walter bright uses phobos 00:40:32 they are compatible 00:40:33 and he made D 00:40:47 GregorR, even if they are not the same software they conform to the same specs 00:41:03 libc is very broken in a lot of places 00:41:07 I can take a program developed for glibc and drop it on freebsd and so on 00:41:08 and too minimalistic for any usage to boot 00:41:11 i'd much rather have tango 00:41:16 AnMaster: no you can't 00:41:28 tusho, as long as it only uses what is in the C specs 00:41:30 then yes 00:41:31 you have to think about it in advance 00:41:41 AnMaster: ... thus making glibc's improvements worthless! 00:41:42 great! 00:41:53 tusho, they are vendor specific functions, all got that 00:42:22 * GregorR chooses to completely ignore and not respond to this argument. 00:42:44 but the standard is rich enough for C (IMO, I know you will disagree) that apart from networking (which POSIX specs) the common "subset" works well 00:42:59 GregorR, anyway problem is it is hard to get D working 00:43:09 GregorR: so plof 00:43:11 show me a plof program 00:43:14 the language itself is beautiful IMO 00:43:17 GregorR, ^ 00:43:23 AnMaster: I admit that, but have neither the manpower nor skills to change that. 00:43:27 tusho: Uhhhh 00:43:33 GregorR: Scratch that 00:43:33 tusho: Idonno, what do you want? 00:43:36 GregorR: Write a plof program 00:43:36 :-P 00:43:40 (Since there are none.) 00:43:47 And I just want a basic syntax, stdlib using program. 00:43:48 You know 00:43:50 I can show you a chunk of the core library *shrugs* 00:43:58 GregorR: Yeah but the core library isn't what user code wil lbe 00:43:59 :P 00:44:07 Not the corest part of the core library. 00:44:19 Yeah well ;-; 00:44:26 GregorR, also it isn't as mature yet. How much will future D specs differ. Both C and C++ are quite mature by now (well FORTRAN beats them of course) 00:44:48 AnMaster: d 2.0 is pretty stable 00:44:50 AnMaster: I'm not even arguing for D here, tusho was :P 00:44:57 and you don't have to use the newer features if you don't want 00:45:06 tusho, and that is what gdc implements? 00:45:07 i don't think many backwards-incompatible changes have been made 00:45:12 how stable is gdc? 00:45:13 AnMaster: it implements a lot of 2.0 00:45:18 gdc is pretty stable 00:45:21 is gdc the only open source interpreter? 00:45:22 your code won't break overnight 00:45:25 'interpreter'? 00:45:28 err 00:45:29 compiler 00:45:31 and gdc just hooks in dmd into gcc 00:45:33 * AnMaster is half asleep 00:45:34 dmd's frontend is open source 00:45:40 just it's backend isn't because of other people's code 00:45:54 tusho, well there are no independent frontends are there? 00:46:03 tusho: http://www.codu.org/cgi-bin/hg/hgwebdir.cgi/plof/file/512a473fb11b/core/pul/collection.plof // this has a few psl{} bits, but, err, ignore those :P 00:46:05 AnMaster: no, so what? it's open source and alright 00:46:10 GregorR: "$DPLOF $FLAGS $INFILES -c $OUTFILE" 00:46:13 GregorR: WHAT ABOUT SPACES 00:46:17 tusho, for C there are quite a few implementations, both closed and open source 00:46:20 "QUOTE" "YOUR" "VARIABLES" 00:46:25 AnMaster: yeah, and it's the exception mostly 00:46:31 tusho: I know, I cringed when I wrote that, but the nested quoting was getting way complicated :P 00:46:33 tusho, hm? 00:46:41 AnMaster: perl 00:46:41 python 00:46:43 ruby 00:46:44 clean 00:46:45 yes 00:46:48 i can go on 00:46:49 forever 00:46:51 but they are interpreted 00:46:58 C++ got quite a few implementations too 00:46:58 AnMaster: uh 00:47:00 clean is not interpreted 00:47:02 AnMaster: Very, very few languages have multiple frontends. C++ has two, most of the commercial ones license the frontend from a single company. 00:47:14 tusho, oh I didn't see clean until I pressed enter 00:47:20 (There have been others for C++ in the past, but most are dead) 00:47:32 GregorR, hm? C++ got more, MSVC, g++ and icc iirc 00:48:02 oh doesn't Borland have one too? 00:48:03 MSVC and ICC are both EDG 00:48:07 So is Borland. 00:48:10 "EDG"? 00:48:12 They all license the EDG frontend. 00:48:17 AnMaster: http://www.edg.com/ 00:48:35 tusho, thanks 00:48:44 C got gcc, icc, MSVC (that one sucks), Borland's, pcc, and some more 00:48:50 AnMaster: wrong 00:48:54 MSVC = Borland = ICC 00:49:03 same frontend 00:49:04 for C too? 00:49:12 uh, I believe so 00:49:16 maybe 00:49:24 AnMaster, tusho: I'm not sure about C, I just know they share the C++ frontend. 00:49:36 AnMaster, tusho: In fact, they probably all have their own C frontend (if they don't just reuse the C++ one) 00:49:52 Except of course GCC which has all its own frontends. 00:49:52 I imagine there's a lot of reuse 00:49:53 But yeah 00:49:56 C is damn unique 00:50:03 GregorR, pcc got it's own I'm sure 00:50:11 GregorR: plof looks nice 00:50:14 one suggestion though, GregorR 00:50:21 GregorR, pcc is BSD licensed 00:50:21 make (binop) be the same as (x, y)(x binop y) 00:50:24 tusho: We're agreeing with you that C compilers usually have their own frontends. 00:50:28 product = { fold(0, (*)) } 00:50:41 (stolen from haskell, but very very nice) 00:50:49 tusho: I want to, but that's a bit obnoxious from how I've designed the parsing framework >_> 00:50:59 GregorR, anyway gdc is not a part of the official GCC tree is it? 00:51:00 (Unfortunately) 00:51:04 AnMaster: No. 00:51:09 GregorR: Well, if you do get it working - add (.meth) -> (o, ...){ o.meth(...) } 00:51:11 will it ever be? 00:51:12 GregorR: That's also useful 00:51:22 [1,2,3].map(.succ) 00:51:25 AnMaster: Not so long as Walter retains copyright over the frontend. 00:51:29 otherwise support can just drop in the future 00:51:35 tusho: That would be useful 8-D 00:51:38 GregorR, eh, I thought you said it was open source? 00:51:45 GregorR: Stole that from a common ruby extension-idiom :P 00:51:50 AnMaster: fsf requires copyright assignment 00:51:52 AnMaster: It is, but GCC only incorporates things which are both GPL and owned by the FSF. 00:51:53 GregorR, open source as defined by OSI? 00:51:57 aha 00:51:58 right 00:52:29 GregorR: [1,2,3].map(.succ).fold(0, (*)) 00:52:30 yum 00:52:31 well once tango is default and it is easy to set up I may consider D 00:52:31 actually 00:52:34 you could probably drop the parens 00:52:36 I doubt it's ambigious 00:52:38 until then: C for me 00:52:42 GregorR: [1,2,3].map(.succ).fold(0, *) 00:52:44 total win or what 00:52:48 D looks like a good language compared to C++ 00:53:02 tusho: Agreed :) 00:53:16 maybe a bit *too* much to easily learn but nicer syntax than C++ 00:53:30 GregorR: Does plof have varargs? What's the syntax? 00:53:31 GregorR, is it possible to skip the garbage collector in D? 00:53:37 GregorR, avoiding the runtime library at all? 00:53:50 AnMaster: if you avoid the runtime lib you have to fill out a lot of functions for it to run 00:53:51 but yes 00:53:55 that's only done for OS dev though 00:53:57 tusho: Sort of, but it's gross right now, haven't thought of a clean way to do it: Basically, every function has an args[] array *shrugs* 00:53:59 you CAN disable the gc though 00:54:01 AnMaster: Yes. 00:54:02 tusho, exactly what my point was 00:54:03 :P 00:54:12 but who would write a kernel in D... 00:54:12 AnMaster: you can disable the gc 00:54:13 AnMaster: Erm, you can do it even without tearing out the runtime library 00:54:15 in the code 00:54:17 I have seen kernels in C++ 00:54:27 and a lot in C 00:54:27 GregorR: well, how about this: (a, b, c...) { /* c is the rest of the args */ } 00:54:31 but none in D so far 00:54:31 AnMaster: Like tusho is saying, you can disable the GC - also, you can just never incur it by never using 'new' :P 00:54:32 GregorR: fairly simple syntax extension 00:54:36 AnMaster: xana has a d kernel 00:54:42 tusho, link? 00:54:49 i think xana 00:55:02 tusho: That's the ultimate plan (that's what Plof2 did), but I don't have .slice working, so it's not in yet ;) 00:55:12 AnMaster: http://code.google.com/p/projectxana/ 00:55:58 "xanalogical functionalities" 00:56:04 wtf is that :) 00:56:12 AnMaster: like xanadu 00:56:16 (the original hypertext system) 00:56:18 (vaporware :P) 00:56:31 so what exactly *is* it? 00:56:48 AnMaster: complicated to explain, that's what 00:56:48 Nobody really knows :P 00:58:17 GregorR: Will Plof make me toast? 00:58:26 If so, I'm sold. 00:58:36 Has anyone ... written any programs in Plof yet? 00:58:45 Aside from, um, test.plof 00:58:52 tusho: No, I keep on pulling the language out from under them ;) 00:59:09 GregorR: You forgot curry.plof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:59:25 Also, GregorR, #plof time 00:59:27 wht is plof? 01:00:15 GregorR, tusho: is plof esoteric? 01:00:18 no 01:00:22 ah 01:22:50 -!- tusho has quit. 01:43:00 http://www.www.extra-www.org/validator.php 01:46:04 -!- kwertii has joined. 03:34:23 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:01:29 Checking www.www.google.com ... failed to connect 04:01:29 Checking www.google.com ... does not redirect 04:01:29 Checking google.com ... does not redirect 04:01:29 google.com class: FAIL 04:08:26 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 04:10:43 I think I'm going to contact no-www.org now. 04:25:42 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:36:13 -!- oklofok has joined. 04:39:42 GregorR: i would like it more if it had fewer exclamation marks 04:39:53 (www.www.extra-www.org) 04:40:24 Reduced. 04:40:43 better 04:40:56 and the color scheme sucks but of course that's not your fault :D 04:41:09 ^^ 04:41:11 (what were they thinking? it's genuinely hard to read) 04:45:01 Just added a link to no-www.org 04:45:05 Actually, to www.www.no-www.org , which works, awesomely enough. 04:46:35 hahaha 04:47:02 wow 04:47:11 not only it works, but it -does not redirect- 04:47:21 that is indeed awesome 04:47:27 Yup 04:47:43 they might fix that, though ;) 04:48:01 *eh* 04:48:02 :P 04:53:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 05:27:36 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 07:26:03 ... 07:26:05 ... 07:26:07 ... 07:26:12 Befunge with portals! 07:26:16 Does this exist? 07:30:07 portal? 07:30:19 I'm thinking. 07:30:30 Although I'll have to read up on Befunge first 07:30:35 I don't know that much of i 07:30:35 t 07:32:29 Hm. 07:32:38 A bully automaton based on Portal. 07:33:25 ah you mean the game 07:33:51 Yes indeed. 07:34:36 It has plenty of crates, doors and buttons. 07:34:45 Maybe something could be done out of this. 07:34:49